why don't we uh call our meeting to order of the financial oversight committee and I will turn over to Connor to call the Thank you Jim so I'll call the special town council meeting to order as well and we
have Kathy Marilyn Anna and myself all right ralph is walking in so I don't know if he's gonna pop in here okay thank you guess it and uh I guess we'll just often the uh members of the
financial oversight committee uh Rich Ferro Don Starks Anna Jones exeicio Conor O'Hay and Jim Brderick and Kathy and Kathy Hill via Zoom
and also present uh town manager Tom Christensen finance director uh first order of business is a review and approve the minutes of our 49 meeting and uh which were very
nicely done by um by Dawn and uh were there any changes to be made to the minutes if not I'll re I'll entertain a motion to approve the
4925 minutes so move is there a second second second uh any discussion and I understand since we have a a Zoom hybrid meeting that we need to do a roll call so I'll uh Rich I just want to make one
comment the minutes have done so well don't you think D should do trying but it's not going to work you are from the educational field so yours will be even more no nobody push
on here anna yes yes i don't vote okay and I'm an I so Kathy Kathy kathy yes uh any nays i think that was unanimous so uh the minutes are approved before we
move on uh Anna did you volunteer to do the minutes for this meeting i think Oh Rich rich I'm next okay that's why we have this back and forth because I was uh trying to remember who was the next one for the schools in particular
because and that one's on the 24th yes it is on the 24th great so that was that's why you had huh not on the 23rd uh we had to move it the 24th the schools uh had a negotiating
session and uh couldn't be available and I did not copy you i might not i might have been stupid enough not to CC you and Kim my apologies okay that's all right i might be out of town anyway
on that Thursday kathy yeah seems as though the door locks automatically everyone and so I have to forecast to come back in just for you okay thought it was just me but welcome thank you uh so the next my
apologies no no no that's fine i'll I'll see what I can do the next order of business was really to go back and we reviewed all of the town budgets uh and the the idea here was we
had a few follow-ups and Dawn did a very nice job of listing them in her minutes i didn't I don't know Tom if you had a chance to deal with them at all yeah Kim sent me an email on Thursday pretty much with all of our
explanations so I don't know how you want to I don't know which order they were recorded in or if it matters or um go down the list yeah just go down i I we only had like one two three four of them okay um
well Kim overachieves and has seven explanations here so that's wonderful but as I miss things which is entirely Are they in the minutes do you mind if I just go ahead peek at these are the ones that Don had noted
okay so it the part-time salary specifics so uh it seems like what what did you have there Kim what was that explanation you were just saying sorry so it last year I believe had two
temporary summer positions right but during the year I believe he he added another intern which went all year long so basically he's saying that if he would
have if he were to hire another person it would cost well over what he's what he's saving by having that person in there full year just having them there that's right so uh I think in truth that was probably
missed and I have to have a further conversation with Mr quimby if he's adding another person to his staff because that's sort of outside of uh level services um so we'll we'll have to put a pin in that one and and talk about that again
next time and so technically that person that was is there like during the school year was supposed to be temporary it was just put into the So it should have all been in the temporary plan it was all right but it's Is there more staff this year now because of
that part-time person's still there but now we're back to two temporary they're all temporary and I So I think because they're temporary they don't always work the same amount of hours so they're not not everybody's using the same amount of budget all year long so he basically throughout the year has
three separate interns some of them work in the summer some of them work during the school year but that part-time person that is temporary in the school year he threw it into the part-time line item where it should have been in temporary between the three of them oh I see they're using
one budget makes any sense they're not broken out correctly which is why the increase was shown in the could have been down in the temporary she was saying that we had two temporary positions and we have added a third that's what it sounds like yes but I'm
not clear on when that position was added i believe it was last year so 0 for one well we we I have to we have to talk to Ryan about that okay um the stipens for fire
um that was the holiday pay um so they were paid out of the salary line item previously i think we said this last time and they're just appropriately moved to where they're supposed to be paid out of because it's a stipen and not full-time pay so that's a
contractual thing yep yep so they they get their holidays in a stipened because their schedule is moving and they may have to work a holiday and they may not have to so they just get a stipen for the holidays that are in their contract which are pretty
standard to what everybody else would get for holidays uh in the municipality so that was just always in the wrong line item and we moved it um COA uh so there was a one employee last year uh that was budgeted
incorrectly and so this number is over the 5% because it's has two steps because they didn't budget the step right last year meaning we're we're we we budgeted low last year and this year we're making up for it
that's that's the difference um say that again please i'm sorry so So last year they should have been budgeted here and they were only budgeted at say step three they should have been budgeted at step four and now this year they're at
step five so it looks like a twostep increase but it's not it was just budgeted incorrectly last year so it's it is level services yes but it's reflecting reality correct we we had budgeted the the number was wrong last
year in the budget so it is a two-step increase but it was only because we didn't do the step we didn't put the step in the budget last year uh and then the workers comp liability yeah I think it was it said it was kind
of an estimate and it was the question was is there any firmer idea no I'm still hounding uh our provider for numbers but that's should be in line with what we're going to see um and I
think there was a question on the sheet i think our note said 5% increase when it was an 8% increase but it's actually eight um that that's our estimate still at this time comments questions on
uh upon further discussion or thinking through uh these uh the town budgets any comments or questions on the budgets that we reviewed last week uh if not would anyone like [Music]
to make a motion to approval of the town manager's budget uh and Don has a nice uh breakdown of all of them uh which could nicely be put
into the form of a motion uh and Don if you wanted to do that sure um I uh I move to approve the recommended budget as submitted by the town manager on the town side
okay as listed sure as as noted in the minutes of the 4925 meeting what he said yeah all right do I hear a second second diana
seconded okay bless you any other uh any questions hearing none uh let's do a roll call uh Kathy yes all right rich yes sir don yes hannah yes uh Jim yes okay we're through that
[Applause] part and the next was a review of the capital projects plans i was sitting there RNA RNA what's RNA what's RNA and it was like three days before I realized phrase
inappropriate and I'm never I'm not going to ask I'm not gonna ask I thought I didn't use any more of those All right uh does everyone have uh We're on page 18
package and uh we can kind of just walk through this if you like [Music] now general question uh obviously it looks like you avoided doing any kind of bonding for any of the projects uh uh
yeah we have enough b borrowing going on in the general fund uh you mean for the high school well for we we do have we do have debt uh outside of that i think we we borrowed for some projects last year and meaning for the
for the office building the modulars the modulars yeah uh not the uh well the office building yeah but that's not in the general fund um and so uh we we got to our number based on our policy um and you know sort
of based on our financial position this was the number that we kind of stopped at the office building is not in a general plan nope we was it a exclusion we we have a uh revolving account for the building and the money we collect
from the leases pay for the building yeah um so yes we did not there's no borrowing for for the general fund uh in this capital plan um as we move down just any any
questions people have this probably would have been easier to to we we we get into an alphabetical listing here and it kind of got off the list that uh of the details that we had given you from the from the capital advisory committee so I apologize for that but so
they're not in the same order you know what I mean uh so the Ellen Street landfill which was a D priority Yep uh and kind of cut cut the amount in half is that is that the one that we keep trying to you
know stay satisfy the state in terms of what's required but yes uh but at in the end of the day at some point we're going to have a big bill too uh yep and that happened uh while this plan was being
created uh we got an administrative consent order from the Department of Environmental Protection uh basically telling us that now's that time where we have to get going so um that's why it's in this plan because
it's going to be in this plan for for the next couple years anyway maybe three or four uh depending on how the closure goes but essentially the the administrative consent order is
uh you need to close this the way we want you to and you need to do it in two years and so with a little negotiation we got them out to five years uh so um you know hopefully we can do a similar
process that we did with the Summers Road landfill and use some town forces to get some of this work done a little cheaper than we would if we went to a third party uh but that still remains to be seen so uh essentially we had our
number kind of plugged into the budget and as it was moving whatever was left over got put in the Allen Street so that's the reason why the full amount isn't in this we had this 1,532,956 number total set up and
plugged into the whole budget and rather than change that amount we kept that amount with a couple of moving parts and the balance of which went to Allen Street now the balance of which was uh we eliminated the fire
department pavement which was uh recommended by the capital advisory committee for $226,000 uh so that got bumped off and there was a project for DPW that was recommended that also got bumped off um
and again like I said I'm having these negotiations with D in March and April when the committee was trying to formalize their list so there there they had already given me the recommendation uh when I had to amend it so the DBW would have been a general fund uh
obligation for project yes yep and Tom you're saying you negotiated to get the landfill capped uh out for five years so
is is 77 grand did you take the what you estimate the total and then divide by five and try and I wish your way in no I wish Don uh we we have some money in a capital account from the design already so this will get added to it the other
piece the other when I referred to moving pieces of this puzzle uh you'll notice that uh the rescue one ambulance lease and fire department lease uh the portion of which the 25% of the the fire
engine uh is usually paid out of the ambulance fund yeah and so we are in raise and appropriate in the general fund this year because the way the general law reads we cannot approve the ambulance budget
um more than what we have in the account at the time of the vote which means we miss out on six weeks of revenue for that account so we have to whatever the balance in the ambulance account is on May 27th or whenever we
take that final vote that's the most we can budget for FY26 which is cumbersome to say the least that we miss out on four weeks of that that was one of that was one of my questions that was mine too it's a good question why
would I preempted it you wouldn't be able to take the amount of that that amount and just the balance paid by the general fund yes so this is our snapshot in time on March 31st when we submitted the budget
hopefully that number moves and these can come out of raise and appropriate and into the ambulance fund and as they do we're going to do that the amount that you have we will keep this5 and and the balance of which will go from the general fund into the Allen Street
project does that make sense yes so the whatever the the the engine 25% of the engine was something like $47,000 we expect to get there and we can move that out of the general fund and into the ambulance fund and then add that to the Allen Street
project and then whatever portion of the ambulance lease we can get to that will come out of the general fund and into the ambulance fund i know this is a lot of moving parts and this is the difficulty of the ambulance fund uh general law
language but we can't budget for this amount unless it's in the account uh which will lead to a further conversation when we get to the ambulance fund um that that's sort of the reasoning for
laying it out like this uh with Allen Street having less than was asked for uh was because we fully expect that that number will increase as we move these things into the ambulance fund based on the money but as of March 31st this was the best we could do without projecting
it five times that helps explain it yeah um Okay but provided I explained it right do do you have already a design and a plan for the Allen Street landfill or is that part of what has to be spent no so
that was the first outlay of money was the CAD which is the um corrective action design to be approved by D um and so that is mostly done uh with
the exception of some of the permitting which uh with national heritage and endangered species and everything else that goes with a landfill that permitting process is very cumbersome and long and
uh we know we have a lot of red tape in Massachusetts in particular so uh the process is still ongoing but that money was already appropriated and is sort of being spent for the chair yes so that process does that
um entail what we expect to use the property for at the end because I'm sure the capping requirements are different depending on what you're actually going to be using the property for afterwards so the minimum cap requirements are what
are in the design what can be used afterwards is still a matter of the environmental impact of the actual landfill meaning whatever data we get out of this process or find when we're capping it the D will make a use
determination to say you can't do this or you can't do that or you can do this here or you can't do that here right and all like for instance um you know the most popular one is balance ballasted solar because you don't have to penetrate what the cap that you've just
built and that design is pretty standard uh the weight dis the the weight displacement of a a ballasted solar field wouldn't harm the cap in any way so that's all sort of to be determined
what is done after the fact so I know when we were going through Maple Street the initial process and all the EPA basically said "Well this property um Carlin combustible." Oh I'm I'm sorry go ahead y looking at it
if you demolish the building and you're going to put industrial in well you got to clean it up excessively well right but if you put housing in right barely have to get under the surface right and I'm just wondering I mean we're going to end up with seven eight acres of anyway land
over there um we're in need of multiple playing fields yep and I just want to make sure that if that's a possibility and in relationship that you know if it's going to cost us another $50,000 to make sure there's an additional six
inches so that could happen um so I said and that's I mean I would assume they have some type of standards as far as if use it for playing fields it should be kept at 4 foot if you're going to use it for this three foot's sufficient it's a
great question because we ended up with an amazing space at Summers Road because we asked the question and we put millings down on an area that was supposed to be sloped off and the original design and that's where the big the DPW now has this huge layown yard
where they have all their equipment storage and material storage and so that part we're not to that part yet but we'll be mindful of that the the the problem with playing fields usually is the minimum slope that you have to have
on these fields for the drainage is some like 2% minimum so it doesn't seem like a lot but I don't know if we'll be flat enough to allow that to happen but the use afterwards will be sort of
talked about as we con you know we're not anywhere near construction yet um but yeah no that's a good point and and again I don't want to just uh miss out on a use because we didn't ask a question like that right like you
said what's if we're already out there putting 9 in of loan down because that's what the design requires can we put 14 and do use it for something else i mean one of my concerns with the solar is simply that we went to court we fought
trying to keep solar out of residential areas the town saying "Hey we're going to throw it in here and don't worry about what we did in the past." Um well the said we're getting off we shouldn't we shouldn't have had that argument
right so uh um but I I see your point Rich and I believe uh you both were on the capital planning committee anything you want to highlight or touch bases with us on we uh the one thing I want to highlight is that we we took quite a bit
of time trying to um that come so much expression get the most bang for the buck uh we shuffled a number of uh different items and moving them around in fact you know the one item that was most difficult that we tried to fund was the one that was cut the last which was the
um Metobrook uh parking uh redesign and we finally decided we took that out we could we could fund a lot more different items so that was really the most contention we had okay i noticed that the the flat roof
for maple shade was in there is that has that been in there for a number of years or Yeah um that I don't I can't answer that question Jim i should I want to say yes but I can't answer with that much clarity i didn't see any priority in it so it's hard to tell roof for maple
shade yeah I think that's good is that the one that was approved last year yes that's the accelerated repair one yes yes yeah we we uh that's ongoing we we have a OPM and and uh I got that email a couple days ago we've been assigned an
OPM and a design team for some reason it was showing on the the printout that I made so I think it's because they requested it again i'm not sure i think they because they hadn't moved forward with it yet it was MSBA it was the
accelerated roof repair right so because they hadn't moved forward with it yet I think they thought they had to reerequest it but it was approved last year okay great um other questions regarding the capital projects i had one Jim yes go
ahead Kathy um the uh for the police department the dete detective bureau car um I guess I'll start this way do we know how many total cars are in the police department
fleet i I know that we have uh a annual practice of uh replacing two cars per year based on uh mileage usage and such and I'm just curious um that being the
case two more vehicles will get Mark Cruisers will be purchased with the plan here and um just curious as to whether or not it was feasible to just take one of the other cars that might be coming
off that list uh for the detective car or is that not a realistic approach to the problem or make the pickup truck the detective's vehicle which is coming in that we
approved last year right considering it wasn't designated for any specific use just throwing it out there yeah i I understand that officers are on the road and cruisers 24/7
um I don't know this uh answer but I I would naively presume maybe detectives are using a vehicle when they have to respond to an event or
go to visit you know the state police or district attorney's office or what have you um and if in fact that that is true um it just strikes me that maybe using another older car
to do those things um might have been um more efficient but I'm asking the question because I don't know that yeah um so the this vehicle would be would be
replacing an old detective car which is an old Crown Vic so I'm guessing they did that once already and so then now that that Why I Why couldn't they use a a not one of these vehicles they're using to
replace yeah uh this is probably to a point where it's not roadworthy um I can certainly ask Mark about what what shape the fleet fleet is in but um you know most of these cars when they go to get
put away have well they hand them to DPW people basically and then we and then we fix them but no uh I made a joke about my Crown Vic again um I could ask if any of those vehicles that would be traded in with the new
ones um you know uh could be used for this car if if you don't think that this car um should go in the plan um I think the other thing we were trying to figure out was uh for these vehicles using uh
the green communities money i know Rebecca's researching that right now to see if some of the the um money for the two cruisers and the detective car can be lessened by a a green communities grant as well
on that yes Scott on that same topic I was also curious um just on the overall fleet because I know the last couple years we had ordered a bunch of police cars and then there was the whole CO delay with them actually making it to us
and we had quite a few year of backlog of orders that were supposed to get delivered do we know like how recent all of them are because I'm wondering do we actually need to order three of them if we just got four of them that are pretty brand new
uh I think they're all in and the ones from this year I think just arrived I don't know couple weeks ago or re very recently [Music]
um yeah I mean uh it seems like uh the the the cars are ready to be replaced so we just we're we're ordering them this is their sort of lifespan there's whatever 10 so every 5 years two are getting replaced and um this is sort of how we've been going and they all
have their you know 140 160,000 miles on them um but um yeah I mean they're they're still in need and yeah when we when we order them who knows when we're going to get them
but uh yeah I'm not I guess I Yeah I I'm sure they need to be replaced and that's why they were asked for don go ahead just kind of to tag on to
what Connor was saying so I you're right we've ordered and then we've waited what are um when we order uh as we know there's been inflation so is there a price differential um or do do we put
the order in and we get it for what we get it and I have to ask what's the status of the pickup truck uh I haven't seen the pickup truck yet we don't have it uh and the the first
question was when we order it oh put in so most everybody when they order a vehicle will add like a little bit of a contingency on like when when DPW orders a vehicle that will have just an upcharge just in case you know we have
to get in order to build the capital plan for submitt getting quotes in January February and then by the time we order them in July there could be price fluctuation so we try to build that into the price but that was a little bit more difficult
right out of COVID we're we're back to sort of a standard operation where there's not a whole lot of fluctuation when it comes I think the last two vehicles we got for DPW we actually paid less than the quote because we we
budgeted more than than the quote and we have a standardized platform so to speak for all vehicles across of like building a contingency fund at a certain percentage and um when you hit a I realize uh
police or cruisers they're running all the time and that does you know just idling it's not great for a vehicle i understand that but across a platform um at least I know trucks are completely
different um you have a standard protocol where when you hit this much mileage or type of protocol do we have standardized okay yeah so there's a a PM schedule for for the whole fleet
basically um not as easy as DPW who has their own garage but you know Fire has a mechanic in house somebody that's supposed to be the mechanic right and uh PD handles it similar similarly excuse me um they're uh I think Sergeant Bruno
is pretty much in charge of all the vehicles and I don't know if you ever met Sergeant Bruno but I don't know that there's a more meticulous person uh on the planet just does an excellent job with their fleet um and again so if if there's if they're looking to replace
vehicles it's because that vehicle has run its course at the police department from a from a operation and safety standpoint yeah well this is clearly not going to be a cruiser type vehicle
that's like a unmarked vehicle so the upfit's not the same and uh I think it was an Equinox or something equinox yeah it's right here um other questions on the capital Equinox projects plan just ple uh Jim if
I may um directed to Tom um could uh you ask the chief to just provide uh us with an inventory of the vehicles you know the age of them when they came into service
and which ones go out of service and what do you other than when we send it along to uh another department to use after that where is there a graveyard for a police car we've been having excellent luck with
our uh surplus vehicles on uh Municipid mhm um so it's a uh sort of like an eBay for for used vehicles so that if if if the vehicle is not advised to be used uh
it goes on municip surplus and and sell it um but um we have a fleet list that is being constantly updated obviously and needs to be updated for uh the insurance company at minimum every 12
months but uh because of the delivery date on all these vehicles uh it gets updated 15 times a year uh so I can bring that next time or I'll email it over to you tomorrow and then we can we can chat about that just for curiosity
sake let everybody know the Crown Vic is a 2009 and it has 159,000 miles so creep up um other questions on the capital projects plan how do people feel would
you like to wait and maybe get some more information on the detective bureau car and the inventory of the police fleet and uh and vote on the capital projects plan next week or would people prefer
just vote on it this today i have the I have a copy of the fleet but the whole fleet or or the PD fleet I think so yeah i don't it was it's in the folder for um
capital i think this is it right yeah that looks like it would be it so we can do it one of two ways we can either vote to recommend the budget and ask for this follow information to understand it better that's one way
Kathy or we can hold get the information and then vote on the budget at our next meeting are we doing just general fund projects or the whole shoot and match because I do have one question under the Let's
let's do your question okay um water rate evaluation study can you elaborate on that please absolutely uh we were just talking about that this morning um so uh we we
we have our water rate and much like our tax rate is just a single rate with the exception of uh an irrig agricultural rate uh so
we're going to go to uh the industry standard which is a tiered rate meaning the larger users don't pay less they pay more uh same with electricity right if you're a if you're a heavy user you pay
more per kilowatt hour not less it's not like going to Costco you're putting more strain on the system airgo you pay more for your water uh so we're we're we we have a um consultant working with us to try to
figure out you know it's just structuring the rates to be more equitable based on the user and how much you use um our rates are I don't think our rate structure has maybe ever been changed since the the
um enterprise fund was created uh and I think we need to look at uh a better way to bill our customers based on what they use uh the quote the one I get the most is the minimum charge which is for somebody that's living by themselves
that only uses this much water they still get a $40 $43 minimum payment per quarter because that's what we've put on that's the value we've put on the whole system sim similar to the storm water
rate so this will sort of make that a little more fair for everyone so if you're a large user you're going to pay more per unit than somebody that's not putting as much strain on the system so that that's the study uh what the
conclusion of that study is uh I'm guessing if I have my way and I've sort of let everyone know I'd like to have this in the budget for FY27 and kind of a might be a stupid question
but um do we how does that affect our software is our software capable of splitting out and doing Yep okay yeah yeah we put everybody to the test when we we put our
storm water rates together oh are quite robust uh yeah we we that will be part of the study I would imagine to figure out what the usage is now you're just reading a meter and it's going in one line of an Excel spreadsheet then it shoots over to the billing software and
the bill goes out so and I don't mean to make it sound that easy but the the water meter gets read you get your usage and depending on what your rate is that'll already be in the billing calculator and your bill will go out based on what kind of user you are so
industrial commercial user would be a higher rate than you and I at our house and it does that make sense it could be fluid as well if Oh did you say fluid on purpose i think you did well I didn't and that's Okay um but meaning hopefully
um you're not using a ton of water but you know it it's based on what you use no matter what so it'll fit each time it'll go in through that metric and say you are now this and correct and more now you're getting charged more if you're losing using less you get charged
less right yeah and I'm I'm sure and again I don't know how the rate structure is going to play out but it will be tiered in such a way that if you're using more than 10,000 if you're in this route this it's
not exactly how much you use because people jump in lines all the time you'll just be designated as here's your three-year average this is how much water you use here's your rate so theoretically the a low residential user would have a lower lower bill yeah i
mean we got to find a way to structure it so the revenue supports the expenses of the division but that's an easy thing to sort of shake out yeah uh other questions on all other capital projects
included not not just the general fund pro projects weren't a ton of projects this year yeah unfortunately um Kathy I Yes I I think I would I would be comfortable leaving it whichever way
you would be more comfortable with either uh waiting for some better more information on the detective bureau car and and the fleet and its turnover and waiting till you know getting that and
then voting on the capital projects or voting on the capital projects and getting that information as a followup for for you know just to have either way I'm fine we have time to do it either way whichever your preference is is is
okay with me i don't have a burning preference for either way uh and since the appropriation is $34,000 you know we're not talking 1.7 million uh I I'm okay voting on it today with
the you know understanding that if the backup information uh provokes more conversation and uh we want to revisit the vote then we can do that but I would say go ahead how do other feel others feel about that
i'm good on voting i mean we stay with Tom we stay within the 1.5 million correct excuse me okay we stayed within the 1.5 million figure that you gave the capital plan committee here yeah thereabouts again we were trying to get an idea of you know you couldn't have as
much fun as last year but if we could get that follow-up information a little bit more information on turnover that would be great yep uh so just a quick question yes so Tom um it sounded like what you were saying is by the time the
town council's ready to vote the numbers and all may change based on whether or not you know availability of green communities grant um Allen Street if we find out other information um they may yes and no stuff the parts of the one
1.5 will change but the 1.5 will change will stay whatever moves out or moves over will go to Allen Street because it needs to although in that mind that the like the ambulance fund might change correct yep
no there there the the the point is the 1.5 is in the calculation for the whole budget and the and all of the calculations for everything else down the line all the way to the tax rate and
so leaving that one five because we have a project that should have got $500,000 this year we'll we'll be okay so we would be recommending approval of the town manager's capital projects budget with the general fund amount at
1,ion532956 with the understanding that there may be some movement between the ambulance fund and the Allen Street landfill in terms of yeah the there there there could be some motion there yeah
but the general fund obligation of the 1.532 would stay okay do I hear a motion to that effect i hear a second nailed it say that motion motion to approve the Tom Banders capital planning budget period are we
adding those funds with with the understanding that uh there might with the general fund level at 1,532 956 and with the understanding that there may be some movement between the Allen the ambulance fund and the Allen Street
landfill right and I think I needed a second uh any other discussion questions if not we'll do a roll call kathy yes okay
uh Rich yes don yes hannah yes jim yes okay uh we're on to questions for the schools um I maybe uh finance director can help me with my question um Kim when I go in
your um budgets I notice like three four or five line items for teacher salaries do you have any reason why there's so many line items within each building for teacher salaries the school so like for me Brookke for Maple Shade etc there's like three or
four different line items with teacher salaries in varying amounts i'd have to look at it i I don't actually manage the That's okay i I just wanted to know if it was if was I I guess my question should be is it a munous way or is it just something that
we have that we should really ask the schools um you probably want to ask the schools i will look at it while you're okay just to see what you mean by that but typically if there's different line items for teachers that would be something they set up specifically to
have different line items them and it could be I'll look at it okay um if I can jump in uh Rich just a thought around that and I don't know this if this is the actual answer but um some
positions that are classified unit A teachers in any building are uh funded through title one others through the metco grant and so forth so maybe it's a function that the payroll on the school
side has to do so they can track what you know those um salaries flow okay thank you those funds flow i mean that's just a a a guess on my part yeah for I mean for instance there are nine
different for salary categories and for Birchland Park yeah and that would stump me too i don't know if it would be easy for them to take it and even just kind of
lump sum teacher salary much um the other thing while we're just talking about things we might be asking is last year we got a full listing of things that are grant funded where we sat i'd love grant funds
three-year look back as well as um revolving funds totals and look backs are you going over your questions i'm just kind of jumping in there sorry no no i mean I think the way it was on my brain so I said it is have someone start
and then go from person to person and because there we'll probably have a lot of overlap so um if you would like to start be our my guest that that would be my question rich would you be willing to
amalgamate all of our questions great word wait enough to find them that way [Laughter] word i don't know write them down
yeah i I'll definitely with the minutes absolutely but you have to speak question okay so you always got the playback yeah um just for a refresher because we have some newbies here for
since last year um we received a full print out of grants and where we sat with current funding as well as um evolving funds uh so we could see the full financial
picture which I think the a good thing to see um just from a taxpayer perspective even though it's not necessarily coming from tax dollars but to see the full picture and then if possible not only those totals but say a
three-year look back just so we can see where we sit we had I know we've run out of a fair number I believe um and this could be part of the conversation we had those big COVID grants and whatnot to see how things have phased out and where
we sit just so we see the full picture got it that's pretty much the only question I Okay Anna did you have any specific questions you wanted to Not really i think I'm still trying to navigate here
so all right sure enough Connor oh sorry on the other question about teachers because I did look in to see what their line items are they're very specific line items for specific types of teachers so when they budget they must be putting like autism teachers um
specialized teachers they're putting them in line items for each but it just says teachers on that report that you have if you go further into the detail if you were actually to click on the account numbers on the report found in a PDF it would bring you in and you could
see the titles of each of the line items so glad you if we were in the system hyperlink it's a hyperlink it brings you into a portion of Munas that you wouldn't can't go any further than just that page a bonus for the non-paper crowd
oh darn it at least we don't have access to it oh yeah i think all right um I can add my my questions so I just kind of I'd like to know the number of students say for the last four years the current year and maybe projected for the next
few years and then the number of full-time equivalents for the last four years the current year and projected for FY26 um then I wasn't sure there's instances where one of those those line
items the salaries increase 7% or more and I don't know what you know what goes on and it might be people moving or changing or classifications but I I just wasn't sure you know what what it
was salary percentage and this isn't really probably a question for the schools but it looked like the uh professional salaries there was a difference between the spreadsheet and the munus in terms of what it was
showing um and uh when I looked at the spreadsheet we had here you don't have to write this down um and the and the munice I'm I'm
looking at it and it's so the level two budget for professional salaries on the spreadsheet is $24,939 and the level two budget here for professional salaries is
24044 in the munis 24 was there also a difference in other salaries because I reduced other salaries for their adjusted requests and it could be that Pam there's a 25 thou
2025 revised budget which is 2404 but that's that's not 244 which it's not it's not exactly the same i'm so tired page on the 22 uh it's page
22 so it just wasn't the same i just wasn't sure it was different before that because if you look at other salaries on the sheet it's 3706 but on your report it's had requested a much higher amount
before like they voted one amount and then they revoted yeah yeah they they moved the salaries all around even though the total their total budget basically stayed the same so but they reduced their request by uh a decent amount $894,811
not in total in total so you're talking about the FY26 what are you looking budget i I'm looking at I'm looking at the projection level two
projection versus the current year on the munis versus the versus the spreadsheet you're looking at current year amounts yeah it's something has nothing to do the questions I'm going to ask the school so
we can we can follow up later but I just couldn't figure out why it was different that that isn't a question for the schools though so I'm not seeing the difference because when I look at the current your actuals
it's I'll come over 3634 point out where I am afterwards okay because I'm not seeing the difference so the uh the other salaries
where where it actually goes down um I guess I'm just wondering how that works how they were able to do that is that retirements i think I asked that
last week as well that is it retirements that actually allows that to happen um I'm not sure what your question is Jim the other salaries there's an actual decrease in other salaries um
and so this is what I was trying to explain a minute ago the original request from the school yep and I believe they voted on it it was higher than this request by $894,811 they don't tell me in detail what they're going to reduce right so I
put that reduction in other salaries that's why you have a difference in the 24 million9 so that's why I have the 2.6 in the munus because that's where they put it or that's she plugged it into one place i think Pam plugged it in one place in munus and I
plugged it into other salaries so never mind never mind about other sour how about supplies and materials then supplies and materials is that one that was also just something that they decreased in order to reduce their total
budget but I think those types of questions you're really going to have to have so that one that one I mean goes down from like 600,000 to 300,000 280,000 i mean it's huge so I the question would be how how are you
going to do that and um be nice but it doesn't seem like I don't know how you reduce supplies and whatnot that low and then tuition's they're going up u almost a
million bucks $927,000 so that's huge especially in the special education yes you want a question on that well I mean it's kind of like that's their retirement insurance benefit
thing their equivalent the the town's equivalent is is is is this uh is the tuition so but I mean that's that's huge it's just huge and and what Yeah what is it what's what's what's driving it what's what's
causing that increase in the tuitions and Jim Jim we should have a discussion and and question about net school spending that graph that's showing that it's
going up we're at 135% what is the plan to me I'm looking going this is unsustainable and there needs to be a plan and yes thanks for thanks for bringing that up we we should ask about that because the difference is
continuing to increase so we're continuing to pay more more and more above what the state is requiring the municipalities to pay so when does that begin to like settle down and you know
even decrease so and the thing is though I think we need to get a little handle on and maybe they can do that for us uh what other towns and cities are doing are are is everybody paying that much above the net school spending
requirement or you know are we I imagine only at the state they must have a website that shows all the towns and the net school but they could help answer that for us perhaps but yes that Rich if we could get that an that
question because that's a a very big general question that would be good to know we're above average but not number one okay uh those were basically my specific questions um Kathy
yes I have some sure um one I only got one question my first one what was that Richard i posed my first question to Tom the other day and that was could they uh please provide us with an organizational
chart we you know in our packet there we see that we have them from all the other departments and uh it would be nice and helpful to have one from the schools uh delineated in such a way that and I you know they have 400 employees so
certainly um we don't expect that them to um or I think it's realistic to ask them to list each position and the individual's name but it would be nice to see by building how many administrators how many
clerical how many guidance uh how many classroom teachers that sort of thing and then I have another question uh regarding the school choice uh back in um when we met with them in
February to do our charter required you know face-to-face meeting on you know the budget process going forward they uh announced that the school committee voted to take in more um school choice
students for September of specifically they were going to be able to add 10 at grade six and 10 at grade nine I believe um so I have more of a generic
question around that um just for a little background school choice is by blind lottery that you know literally somebody's pulling out a name and it could be from Wilberham it could be from Springfield it could be from wherever
um so we get a list or the school department gets a list of students and you know they're accepted into the program and the parents say yes or no um and then once the the child has
entered um it's at that point we we are able to uh determine does that student require additional support i.e a special an IE IEP or uh other accommodations um
I'd be interested to understand uh and they probably can't I know they can't give us information about the the the new 20 that are coming in for September because I doubt that they've had the lottery yet but for the current
number of kids who they've historically taken in in the past few years how many of them ultimately came to the district with special education needs because
um you can project that x amount of dollars is going to be income but then if you've got to supply educa uh special ed resources to any one of these kids it is going to erode your you know your
your budgeted amount and I'd be interested to get a kind of a snapshot of that um of that situation you know if they project for instance I'll just give you a number 400,000 as income and then
turn around and out of the number of kids taken in there's 180,000 in special ed needs attributable to various services then you're really not your net yield is way different than what your planned income is and um that's a
reality of um the school choice program it's also a reality of um the MECO program i'm not opposed to either of these programs please understand that but I think sometimes the projected uh
revenue source is muted by the actual outlay of services once these students get enrolled in the district so I'd be curious to see you know a broad brush overview of of that
um situation i had another question that it's probably just easier for me to ask in live time to them um and it's only because I've um more you know most familiar with how munis reports or I
should say not most more accustomed to it there are positions in the district that are called team facilitators special uh the sped building coordinator an educational testing liaison i would be curious to have them
define the differences between those because sometimes I think there's an overlap of um responsibilities and clearly it's up to them to decide how many you need of each but um it'd be I'd
be interested to um get definitions of that i don't think Rich you need to write that down as a question it's simp I can just ask it when we get to that point um the last question uh alluding to what
Kim just spoke about that in the final um uh presentation of their budget to the schools they were asked by Tom to bring their uh net request to no more than
2.5% which did result in their cutting back in early March an additional close to 900,000 Um and the chair of the committee in an email to us uh implied that it could
yield uh that 900,000 could result in up to 23 positions lost um that number clearly is not that high um since since then but I do know that
um yesterday being April 15th and for uh positions being cut or reduced in force reduction in force those uh person people had to be notified of that it's part of the employment law and it's Rich
help me out is that a DOE a desi kind of a rule too the April so I would be interested since that did happen yesterday um to hear what that final list of cuts was not people i
don't it's not our uh position we don't have a need to know the names of any of them but I would like to see you know if you made 15 total cuts or 20 total cuts whatever none of it's good news um just
what that those cuts entail just to again um to get us a sense of you know where did you have to dig into the budget and I think it'll be helpful as ensuing um budget years come
you know obviously if you have to cut something at some point when um the funds are available you try you know bit by bit to bring certain things back so um it would be nice just to see by
position or building the list of cuts that's all the other questions that I had were already uh brought up very good thank you Kathy uh Ralph so I just wanted to point out uh page 25 of 43 and that we got
basically school spending is uh from FY8 all the way through FY24 which is extremely helpful in just following it along and um as of
FY4 we're providing almost $12 million a year over required net school spending which is like I said we've climbed from uh roughly 15% over what we're required to now 35% over in that
time frame and again that's only through FY24 uh 25 doesn't come out for a bit yet so so we are the gap is spreading we are giving as much as we can uh when we can
for uh educational purposes i found what Kathy just said extremely interesting that if you're going to cut positions they have to be notified by April 15th when the budget's not even finalized until
June i mean that just doesn't make a lot of sense to me um if if I can jump in um um that's a a desi requirement and it's also um um uh a depart not what's the one
where unemployment even though they are not eligible for unemployment is that do Kim where unemployment would okay so it it emanates out of that but the reality is if in the other funds flow to the district through you know
via the cherry sheets and the ultimate decisions at the state level if more money flows in obviously they will take every step to put call those people back it's not it that's not carved in stone but they have to legally protect
themselves and the employee by doing that yesterday yeah and that's what I was saying it's just amazing that before they even know their budget they have to make these assumptions which doesn't seem right no no worse than our state of Massachusetts it's no worse than the
town having to pass its budget before the state tells us how much they're going to give back some school systems they give pink slips to all teachers and then they hire them all back once the budget's violated so it is quite a diff it is quite a roller
coaster ride wow uh did you have any specific questions for the schools not for the schools i mean my my concern is that the schools can spend the money the way they see fit and the town council's job is to give them a lump sum like what the state does
for us y and they're going to they're going to move it around as they need it and to get into an in-depth budget this doesn't seem to make sense that's why we have a school committee let them deal with it here's what you get did you have any specific
questions no it's really been discussed i am curious as to why our net school spending is so much higher than the requirement and I'm sure that will come up uh did you have any specific questions
to give the schools for in advance of our meeting i think Kathy brought up a lot of good ones some of which I wasn't even considering but I think one that would be interesting is it's more of a broad question not really related to any
particular number but just based off of some of the themes that we saw in the current year's budget but also the FY26 budget if they have any particular plans or direction even if they're going to need to change what they're doing or how they might approach
things um and if they envision different funding to make some of those changes possible in the future if they need to restructure things I don't know i'm not sure that one down know how to phrase it but it's how they
see things evolving because obviously it seems like we're on a call it for the future yeah it's not related to just this year but like what's their trajectory look like and how are they going to sustain that this is Yeah like a community effort to figure out what the future of education
in the town of Isto looks like walking together because graphs like that just like our expense and revenue graph it's not it will intersect and it's not going to be good when it does so we have to look at
this as a whole across the and whatever we need to do to to to change the direction that things are going uh it's obviously not from support from the town of Esau Meadow as evidenced by net school spending but how do we get these
how do we get this all to work out so that we're still let's face it we want a good school system so that people want to come to our town right so there has to be a back and forth here but where does where do these lines get drawn so that everybody's getting what they need
and we're moving forward together and Tom I I assume you asked all your questions of the schools when you went through everything with them unless you have any additional ones no I I I don't and same with kids so I saved the best
for last rich I I I I do have some minor add to the list i do have some minor questions but I think I like Ralph's point i mean how how how much in depth do we want to get when it's up to us we get we give them the amount they decide what to spend so in some ways I I like I
think the questions we have now are general enough to kind of capture to Connor's point is where are you now and what about the future so I think we're in a good place i I think the only uh the only caveat I'd put to that is being comfortable about the pieces makes you
comfortable about the to so that if there's parts of it that you're uncomfortable with then that might mean the total might be the the the total amount that you're comfortable with might be different that's all so
getting comfortable with the components makes you comfortable with the with the total with with the understanding certainly within that total the you know that the school has complete flexibility to determine what needs to be spent how yeah
exactly all right well then I think we have our list uh when you have it and and what I would suggest is maybe putting a priority on the list uh versus the minutes why don't I do the list and get that to you directly yeah because
then I can I can forward it to and I'll do the minutes and Yes yeah I think that would make sense don did you have a Okay sounds good thank you everyone and uh item five I I obviously didn't uh
proofread my uh my uh document before I sent it to uh posted it's a wild card go ahead say whatever you want the floor is yours so we now uh we now are on so we uh we
thought we'd go into the enterprise funds because it sounded like it might take a while there's a number of them etc and um rather than you know give them short shrift uh make sure we had a chance to to spend some time if we needed it so
that's why I talked about doing something a little differently last week for today talking with Don thought might make sense to the enterprise funds so so that's uh
next for us i have to say though Kim I kind of found them in all different places between the the where the balances were where the budgets were that the enterprise
yeah i felt that way yeah there's the budget section and then the reser the reserve section is obviously where retained earnings is so um we have this section and I guess we also have the revolving funds which I
kind of always the same token as as the enterprise funds uh I'm on page 2843 reserves the reserves the water fund and so that was page 38 of 43 is
the budget so it had a 4.8% increase last year and it's going to have a 4.6% 6% increase this year it's bu building in a budget surplus of $83,000 looking at it I was just for
hahas i was taking the the expenses subtracting out the budget surplus and just seeing what the Guess I did the wrong calculation not necessarily
they do maybe it's a breakdown like this and and just seeing what proportion uh the the fund balance was to the annual operating expense i don't know what what kind of guideline you know measuring stick you
use for what what should be in a what should be there does it what's what kind of projects are coming up or something or are you talking about the budget in general for the water fun well you know
I'm just uh so for instance the water fund uh obviously it's it's in the black uh there's $824,000 looks like in the in the uh will be in the uh in the uh enterprise
fund balance uh on a operating expense annual operating expense of about 3,659 uh it represents about 23% of annual operating expenses don't know if that means anything not sure all right
age well it's in different spots there's a matrix going on 28 of 43 is the balance yes the fund balance okay and then and 38 of 43 is the is the budget
so okay so first first of all the um the budgets are requested through DPW based on um what it actually costs to run the funds the majority of the expense in the water enterprise fund is the payment to
um city of Springfield right um so in terms of looking at the um the retained earnings the 824 that you see that we'll end up with after we
use the money for the capital plan um I think you know we basically right now there's a 20% target to have in retained earnings but that doesn't necessarily mean that you only want 20% in there because the hope would be that
stop bonding for every little thing within those funds so if we're buying a truck or if we're you know doing these water meter modules rather than bonding these we want to be able to rely on the retained earnings so that's why he's got you know an additional budget surplus in
there in order to continue to build up that retained earnings so that it actually can take care of the projects within the fund and what we've been doing at this point because before it was just bond everything in those funds what we've been doing is we've been taking out
bands and then when we certify retained earnings we look at those bands when it's time to go out and permanently bond and determine can we take it from retained earnings as opposed to bonding it and then paying the interest within those funds so that's why you see you know we took these water meter modules
and they came out of the retained earnings originally the plan was to bond those but since we had the retained earnings we were able to just use those funds so you're kind of using a a rough 20% and in the if in excess of that
could be used for expenses any questions on the water fund just curious um not specifically towards the budget but I know that Springfield
Water and Sewer were doing major capital improvements where do we sit in the pipeline on that how far are we i think we're in um we had received a a rather aggressive
schedule um I would expect that these uh expenses from Springfield Water and Sewer will sort of increase incrementally over the next five years or so uh they have forecasted out a lot of those projects um and so
um again like Kim said we're we're sort of working these things backwards based on a usage and whatever Springfield's going to charge us and try to again we we would have liked to have
budgeted for more surplus knowing that projects are coming and at some point um we have to sort of draw a line between how much do we want to raise the rate to plan for the it's like the budget right like we don't want to plan for all the
whatifs because then we're budgeting for whatifs all year and taxing all year long and so we don't want to go too high with the water rate in the in the hopes that we're going to spend in the future or save for the future we're trying to find some sort of balance where you know
the the days of trying to work the numbers so that we don't change our water rate or like that's just not a good it's not a good strategy we we did it for COVID to try to give everybody a break on on the bill but we got behind the eight-ball and we lost some of these
retained earnings that we really need now uh both for stabilization and operation um and Springfield yeah they just keep getting more and more the more they go into it the more they find right
and so do they update you on a regular basis with costs or they do uh on sort of a broad level but I mean everything is sort of estimates right and then you know that's the true up thing right well at the end of the year
they'll be like oh we didn't bill you for 78,000 here's your bill you know the last couple years we've gotten credits because their estimate was actually low and so we paid more than we should have so we've been adding credits the last couple years but before that to the
point where we were budgeting for the true up because we knew it was happening and so this is the first budget for water and sewer that we haven't budgeted for that true up how many towns I mean how do they figure it on usage from
various towns so each town based on and some are just water and some are only sewer and they're you know but yeah we all the the the price for these projects gets spread out based on who's in what and how much
right so it's sort of fair other questions on the water fund Jim may I Yes so on page 32 of 43 it's jumping around enterprise retained earnings balances enterprise shows
uh million40,737 and then the very next page shows it at 900,853 does that mean we used um over $100,000 in retained earnings yeah so Jim sheet there 28 breaks that
down that was certified on July 1st 24 and then we spent the 13983 for the water meter modules so in the in the year do you know what I mean since the last But yeah so what I'm looking at is from page 32 which shows
over a million dollars to what'll remain in it after the FY26 votes at 824 so that's about 180,000 out of the retained earnings yeah yeah there was the 139,000 for the
meter modules and then in the 26 capital plan there's another 76,000 and so the target 739,000 yep so are we trying to spend off a little bit in retained earnings instead
of bonding to get down so that we're close to the target rate we're not trying to get to the target rate but we saying I mean in that way we're at least stable at that rate and we don't go below it or anything yeah if we can handle the projects within the retained
earnings while still keeping to our targets then yes so that was yeah ultimate question thank you 820,000 used for I heard um water meters no 139 139 yep that was from the
capital plan for FY25 so yep the the first balance was the the certified amount as of July 1 2024 so at the beginning of FY25 and we spent money so that's in here and then the balance was 900 and then we're going to
spend 76 more out of it rather than turning 76,000 into 111 because we borrowed it mhm uh we'll just spend the 76 because we still are in our within our above the 20
right makes sense uh so I'm at the sewer and that's page it's still on page uh 28 the balance and uh for the budget it's page 39 of 43 and so this one had a pretty decent bump
in the rate for FY25 so I assume it meant uh was a little skinny for the budget surplus in 2025 although it showed a pretty decent one in 2025
oh that's because it did have such a big right and the sewer um sewer retained earnings was sort of getting dangerously close to our target our target that one and again so this is
a convers I know I don't want to get ahead ahead of myself with the town's reserve fund policy but you know we have 20% in our storm water uh which is you know the budget's nothing right what's the storm water budget
oh wrong one sorry 468 468 so I mean you're talking about whatever whatever 20% is help me out Jim 92,000 yeah we got a ton of money on the storm water well that's what I mean so you can keep 92,000 in
there all you want but if a culvert goes that's going to like the phone call is going to be cost more than $92,000 well I know at one time we the at one time when I was on the appropriations committee many many moons ago uh we had
so much money in that fund balance that you know people were saying take it out unless you have a use for it take it out and lower the tax rate you have no use for it why are you holding all that much money in it
and I think we eventually wound up using a substantial portion of it for one of the water water tanks or whatever but um uh so that the the other idea that at least had been proposed at that point was you're saving for a particular
project of of fairly large magnitude and so that's another at least I would think something that that could be a legitimate purpose right you don't want to keep budgeting for again not to use the same analogy but you you don't want
to keep budgeting just to throw all the money in a savings account right right that doesn't do anybody any good so we're not going to keep raising the water rate just to have $4 million in there that we're not we don't really have earmarked for anything so um we're trying again the balance of maintaining
those funds but not raising the rate to the point where we're just charging people for water that we don't need to be charging uh any questions on the sewer enterprise fund so yeah go ahead i know in the past if the retained earnings is quite a bit
even though we've suggested to bond for something instead of the bonding we've taken it out of the retained earnings i'm assuming going forwards that's still the case in the sewer we've got $190,000 slated for
bonding $126,000 surplus this on top of 100,000 over our projection leaves us quite a bit over projected amount so that it's
possible in capital we take it out of retain earnings instead of bonding i always look to use the money we have instead of borrowing and paying interest and again I think that's something as we go because the projections at 126,000
you don't know if that's you hope that's what you're going to get but you don't always know again tied to the usage you'd be amazed at how much they miss because it rained all July or didn't rain at all you know
uh people are watering or they're not watering and uh it really one month can throw this whole usage budget off considerably just like we were talking about the utilities budget like you can't imagine what the weather does to
to these budgets and these line items it It's crazy and I do know it's a moving target i'm just Yeah yeah no you know as practice I'd rather reiterating earnings rather than bond when it's appropriate that that's where we're what sort of the
mantra we've moved to that there's really no reason to pay interest on something that you can afford right if you do it smartly any other questions on the sto on the sewer uh enterprise
fund and next is the storm water enterprise one now this is this one of our new so many piles here this is one I know me too look it this is one of our newer enterprise funds right thanks yes to the state 41
yeah page 41 of 43 how did we build up such a good size surplus book did we throw something in it initially or something uh no um we haven't really done much other than uh
hire a foreman uh and get him a truck and then the vac truck they paid half of with um the sewer uh department and we haven't had to add anybody else to the storm water division because if
you remember the the parameters of that permit most of them were cleaning our catch basins that vac truck doesn't need another person for most of the week right like there the the the piece of equipment is already paid for itself um so
um the and the collections are of course always a thing but um the uh again like I said we do have a little bit of a a retained earnings in there that is is pretty good and over the target
obviously but anything that happens that has to do with storm water is going to cost that whole retained earnings and then we're going to have to find money somewhere else in this particular instance what you're saying is the 20% is not probably
the right until this right until we get this account this division to where it should be andor change the policy and say this retained earnings for this account because of its small budget should be 50% um even then at a quarter million
dollars we're not getting much done if a road wash washes out with the storm water fund it's just not we're not there yet what precipitated the 47% increase in the rate last year just out of curiosity says the rate in 24 went was
25 was $47 yeah uh you want me to yeah go ahead so um I think Tom had alluded to the fact that during co all the rates didn't increase for a couple years so over the
past couple years we've been taking actual usage amounts and we've been looking at what we needed in those funds for revenue because you're required DLS requires you to meet certain revenue targets if you're budgeting an amount because that's the type of fund they are
the revenue in these funds is supposed to cover the expenses so over the past couple years our rates just weren't high enough to actually cover the expenses within the funds so we did we analyzed all of the enterprise funds to determine where the rates needed to be and that's
why there was such an increase last year so the usage must have you must be projecting a kind of a lower usage because you we're going up 13% and the usage charges are going to be basically flat yeah so the storm water one isn't really
a usage as as far as water and sewer is you know it's it's a flat fee for most residential again that is sort of uh just an incremental increase single family house yeah just an incremental increase for r for rising expenses right
i mean every again like we've been saying we can't if we keep these rates flat for even one year and nothing changes we're already behind right if unless we get lucky and it's a wet year or it's a dry
year with the with this our our our expenses are going to increase this is what expenses do in 2025 they are all on the same curve some steep some shallow but they're going up nothing gets cheaper so we're going to have to
figure out a way to raise these and this one is much more difficult for billing at uh DPW as I alluded to before but we'll have to do sort of like a $5 increase every couple years uh just as a
general you know just showing the increase in expenses across yeartoear like we see everything else just the the general cost of living adjustment comes from expenses going up questions on
storm water sure so I think the increase in the fees over the last few years has been excessive we started out at $25 and that was roughly six years ago when we created the enterprise fund
we've more than doubled it in that time um the percentages the way the way it's calculated to me just doesn't make sense i think there's a better way to do this there's a better way to charge because how can you tell a business like Carter
Monday um hey yeah you're paying $500 we're going to go up $15 on yours and then tell the house next door that's got a lot that's one 100th the the size that hey we're going up the same on yours
doesn't make sense this is all based on impervious surface but yet the percentage is going up and prices aren't the same we're putting the bulk onto the citizens i mean I know originally the $500 hey that's huge on a business but
if you're only increasing now $15 and you're increasing the residents next door to same it's just not fair um it's $15 per acre no it's parcel
it's based on parcels it's all based on parcels and the parcels can be they're divided into large commercial and industrial that they're they're all based on their impervious area and the rate they get charged is going up $15
per right well that's what I'm saying so if we take less than one acre impervious $200 it's now 215 y but on the single family home over the same time you went from 32 to 47 yeah so if you had a 1acre lot and in
residential C you had a quarter acre lot you're paying 50% more on that quarter acre it I think there's a better way to do this fee and I think think we're increasing the charges
too much too quickly um I hear it I hear it from businesses based on parcels um there's different businesses that have five parcels but one business on it and they're being charged for each parcel so
if they have five parcels five times let's say 500 they're paying $2,500 in the storm order fee but it's only one business right next door you have a larger corporation and they just joined all the lots and they're only being charged 500 doesn't make sense i think
there's a better way to do it um again that may not be part of the budget process but I do think ultimately we're going to have to really dig into this and look at I know there's at least if I remember Diane speaking correctly four
or five different ways to that different towns assess a storm water fee y I think there's a better way to do it okay yeah we've changed it once already and like you said it's only six years old so if we think that there's a better way to do
it we can we can do that we again when we started it was the flat fees yeah and it didn't make any sense and so we went to the impervious area calculation which again is an administrative sort of nightmare and thank gosh for Judy
Pashetta who just retired we miss Judy and Mike Ray uh in it for putting all this on the GIS so that we could calculate every piece of imperous area in town which was an enormous feat um and so again we run into this scenario
of how much work do we need to do to get what we're supposed to get out of what we think is the right way to bill for this it's a weird thing to bill for right i was there when it started the rain tax and all this it's a weird thing to do so was I i voted against it i
understand that and I a lot of people did and it's a weird thing to do but when the state says you need to do X Y and Z and you need to do it in short order this is how we decided to pay for it um and again we can't fudge the data based on what we want to charge our
residents we have the expenses and we have to charge and make sure the revenue matches those expenses and so could there be a different way to do it charge just to build up a retained earnings fund i mean yeah way beyond the state actually mandates that you're not
supposed to charge for more than what Yeah but that's part of the expense that's why it's listed in the expense line so that it is an expense matching revenue that's why it's not just a an over budget we budget for that budget surplus so that it can go there that's
how the the law works or how the accounts are set up like I said the rest of them I understand I understand the water rates i understand the sewer rates i just have an issue with the storm water okay i just think there's a better way to do it and I $25 to now 50
something in six years is a big increase uh no uh it's 547 and uh we have just a couple more enterprise
funds and I would suggest we elcat I didn't see any real questions with LCAT did anybody have questions good thing right Jamie spend some of the money uh I I really didn't have any questions
with the enterprise fund sewer and water vehicle uh funds have issues with that i believe they're just building those up to get to a point where you can use them right that one on your the ones those are
those are going away after this budget okay they're going back into the retain earnings where they belong we're not even really sure why those funds were created better i I think it was back when uh I know trying to build them up to just specifically use them for the vehicle for the fleet right yeah yeah uh
Community Preservation Act um the only question I had is there was no article for but there's no capital projects for the preservation act so they're just kind of building
building their their war chest up for No so their projects would be uh what just got submitted was it April 1st projects the two data is tomorrow so we have four projects already uh we don't include those necessarily in the capital plan
because we don't know about them they could be submitted for them but yeah yeah because I think we notify when we decide that that's what if something comes off our capital plan and goes to CPA we try to add it just so everyone knows it's like the other funding
section So everyone knows a general fund there's more from the plan than meets the eye so to speak so I would I would not propose for us to try to do anything beyond what we've done at this point um in terms of the enterprise funds there's
still the ambulance fund i I I hate to Yes and I know I don't I don't want to no no no you got time to to off the ambulance [Applause] where is not page which page is it oh I
moved it 36 i'm all out of order Jim well got me Jim i had them in order and then now I'm order out of order yeah they're it's even harder no I can't do it where is it oh no rich you're on the you're on the
community preservation good i can't find my Yeah it might be a Oh I guess I I'll just start because I I brought it up before um I think
we we sort of plateaued with our budget increase sort of from 23 24 and what we thought 25 was going to happen because obviously uh it doesn't seem like we're going to get to that $2 million of revenue that we budgeted for
2025 um and and the main reason for that is and it's it I don't want to say it was overlooked and maybe we uh you know had different data or percentages but because of the uh demographics of our
particular community 70 for 70% of our ambulance trips are Medicaid medic Medicare Medicare Medicaid what was it it's Medicare Medicare so yeah so reimburse
we're not we're not receiving the revenue for 70% of our ambulance trips therefore the revenue that you projected correct because well we are projecting it that way but we have to project the
rates to the point where those 30% of the rides that are private insurance are subsidizing basically the whole cost of the ambulance fund which is why we so when you say it's Medicare you you get something we do but it costs more to drive out of the garage than we're
getting you know what I'm saying from from maxed out for Medicare we only get up to a certain amount right so that's why the hospitals are having such a hard time that's that's what every the way everything is with Medicare they never pay right they're supposed what they're asked to pay right and they then they
decide on a rate and then they pay even lower than that you know i mean that's the way it is so it doesn't surprise me at all yeah it's a it's a struggle um I think the way that from where this ambulance started and uh this fund
started and where we were headed and now to kind of uh I feel like we sort of almost plateaued in terms of what we're going to expect for revenue now um you know we're just going to have to rethink uh until something changes again
I I hate to say that and wait on something else we're gonna have to think about how we um how we charge for this account and again I don't want to it doesn't seem fair to charge the 30% of people and it doesn't seem fair to root for ambulance fund revenue um we had a
couple laughs about that but um you know these are the actualities of the numbers this is what we're taking in so when you say charge I mean are you charging the same for private versus Medicare no so if you look on page 37 it's got all the
different rates so like 2025 Medicare fee schedule for it says allowed amount is 467 our current rate for a normal is uh 1,349 so I mean it's so we've got to
we've got to unbalance the scale on on this side uh and and take all this lost revenue I'll call it I'm sorry it sounds just bad when I say it that way but the lost revenue and we have to charge everybody that much more on the other
side um and we have I think enough data to know where we we have to make those increases now so Tom couple of thoughts um because we seem to be growing one of our main businesses in town seem to be
um assisted living elder care that sort of thing um which goes to your point of Yeah probably declining revenues looking budgetarily in the future now on the and more to come probably yeah right so on
the private side do they pay you full vote or do they they do some capping too don't they say we will only pay up for to so much do you know the answer insurancees insuranceances i'm sorry say that again the the full do they does the private
insurance cap is there like I don't think so i think they pay whatever so much because I'm wondering if we're Yeah I don't know that I don't think there's like a max allowable i thought Chris said that there there are all sorts of like instances where things don't work
out and it's always not in our favor right but I don't think that that percentage of our rides that private insure they're they're paying what what it is okay this is what we charge you get it this is why you have insurance here's the bill
um so patient is probably getting you know I'm wondering you're talking Medicare um most of us have supplemental and what Medicare doesn't pay goes over to supplemental we of the 18 ambulance
rides last year we did not we were not balance build anything except from Lello that's the only ambulance that balance build everyone else it was either covered with Medicare or the supplemental which is Eastong Medal y but um
no and you can imagine we're we're as as um Don was pointing out you know we have look at all the facilities in town that deal with elders you know there oh yeah plus you know the residents we're all aging in place so um No but it's you can
see how like all this is connected right like we look at our big expenses healthcare because we we all have to pay because policy is what it is and we all have to subsidize these other costs it's
it's just a microcosm of everything um and but this is again I I say that to say have another 4% increase in rates um proposed to get to this budget based on what revenue we think we're going to
collect um so when you're I'm I'm sort of struggling with this um if a if an individual needs an ambulance and uses Medicare but doesn't have a supplemental and so not you know the 30% of their bill isn't isn't paid do they
do you balance bill this is this is all we're allowed to charge depending on the call this is the bill um well yeah i I and I I guess maybe I don't understand your question i just
Well we balance it by charging everybody else what we charge everyone else unfortunately no I think if I understand you correctly with uh Medicare if you don't have a supplemental um and you have to have an ambulance
ride uh Medicare says "Hey 467 and or let's say 380 and your supplemental picks up the additional to bring you up to this." Okay she's wondering if we just bill the Medicare and just not bill the rest of it and again I think that's
more of a billing question right yeah I think let me um we can check we can check to see exactly what they're billing um in terms just want to make sure that we're at least doing any balance building billing that we have to because
you don't want to lose the 20 or 30% each time that would really hurt yeah i'm not sure exactly how much above and beyond they are going but I'll check and my question too is if Medicare you know
pays X amount and the supplemental pays X amount the combination does that meet the bill for that service because as I say no bill no balance billing at all and we used you
guys a number of times thank you i'm not happy about it i'm just saying that you're you're thinking that we could be billing more than we are no no i'm saying that you're your your comment about Medicare you know they there's a
there's an amount and then they look at a an established rate and then they look at something else and that's what they usually pay not what was requested in the beginning but that's there and then a supplemental kicks in and basically picks I understand it to pick
up what's what's missing and there's as I say there's been no balance billing from anybody so my thinking is that particular you know insurance and Medicare paid for what was required and
I'm getting the message that it's not you know based on the difference of your billing between what you get you're not getting as much from Medicare but the question is is it being supported by the second insurance so you
would get it you know all of it but does everybody have supplemental yeah I guess again we can't pick up no I know not everybody does that's why I was wondering about that piece like what where's that fall right yeah i I'm I'm
guessing they're rounding that into the 70% of Medicare whether it's supplemental or not right right you know what I'm saying that Yeah I do it's We're only allowed to bill up to this point whether you have supplemental or not i think um true
um isn't it anything could be clarified oh sure sure um I wouldn't Oh Anna no no no i was just going to say that maybe the supplemental isn't picking up anything and Medicare is covering the full amount
of what's being build for you know something like this that I can't answer i Yeah we don't really know i mean we get accounting from both so we know what's paid on this and what's paid on this yeah but there's certain things that maybe Medicare covers 100% maybe
this is one of them i don't know never heard that that would happen i mean they should I think it makes more sense great we'll have the conversation I agree yeah Carrie will have an answer for us in five seconds so Jim I just have a quick
question and I think it's quick um you had said basically we have to have X amount in our account bit next year um for when we were talking about capital and the ambient fund and everything yep
so what is that number that we actually have don't see you call it retained earnings that we're holding on to at the moment in order for the next budget and I didn't see it i tried to look at the muna sheets in this and I'm lost so no
we got a updated um how far off are we in other words if after this year with any extra money are we going to then have enough going forwards to take the ambulance and all out of that it's tight but you can answer probably right i mean we're anticipating I think it's a little over
1.9 million in the fund which is why we removed Yep the capital items the hope is that with reduced spending you know between well when we talked about it couple months ago a month and a half ago um between then and the meeting the hope
is that we're going to be above that number then with the increased um rates you know moving forward I I think what's been happening is we've been budgeting up to the rates we've been increasing and then those don't come in until the following year you collect them and then
that's what you budget for the year after so the hope is that we've reduced the revenue numbers to you know a more uh attainable number and then watching expenses and I mean basically we're we're sitting on $1.9 million in a fund
sitting there that the state says "Hey because of this rule you can't use it for your ambulance and stuff it was set up as a a receipts reserved for appropriation fund." So because of that it was set up that you have to have receipts receipts reserved then you get
to appropriate them is that dated for the ambulance fund i don't believe it is and I am looking I am looking for other options for this fund so and others i have to admit that just confused me i I seem to recall a
little bit maybe that's something we can just follow up after the next next meeting y um because I I remember something about that but I I'm I'm I'm a little confused over it so other than the fact that it's not in the general fund there's no
reason for it not to be in the general fund yeah no the rules of the road yeah why it's that large and it's still not big enough i I that's that's what I'd like to get a better understanding about
so for now though I would say we've gone through a lot of material today i wouldn't suggest we try to vote on the enterprise funds let's stew on them a little bit uh vote on them after we meet with the schools and uh and uh we might
have a couple of follow-up questions uh but we'll plan on meeting with the schools right right at 4 you know get that done and then we'll uh Don and I will kabutz we'll we'll put a balance depending on how much time we have uh to
uh left for the meeting uh and then we'll have our 4:30 meeting to cover whatever we need to um to get done and then the 55 meeting will really be to to finish off whatever we need to and make sure we're we're done with uh
recommending um whatever we're going to recommend so if that sounds okay I would just ask if there's any questions or comments uh that we need to cover today before we adjourn yes I'm going to be
right up front the the notes are not going to reflect everything that was quite all right best did my best general idea good luck next recording my favorite and a minute
oh that's true ensue general discussion ensue okay because you can always go back to and look at actual Exactly i don't know it's the state likes to have the written thing any any other comments or questions and then I would entertain a
motion to adjourn the financial oversight committee meeting so moved second second uh any other questions uh if none I'll enter uh I'll do a roll call kathy yes uh Rich Don yes anna yes
jim yes and then I'll entertain a motion to close the council second motion made and seconded any other discussion uh Ralph yes carolyn yes hannah yes i'm a yes and Kathy yes
great we are adjourned at 606 thank you