WEBVTT METADATA Video-Count: 1 Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=hFIJD-KLCMI NOTE MEETING SECTIONS: Part 1 (Video ID: hFIJD-KLCMI): - 00:00:00: Meeting Call to Order and Minutes Approval - 00:01:30: Extending Blanket Permit for Town DPW Maintenance - 00:03:44: Project Monitoring: Stream Alteration on Summers Road - 00:15:59: Discussion on Resolution Steps for Stream Alteration - 00:22:33: Creating RDA for Apron and Existing Stream Work - 00:33:39: Enforcement Order 2025-06: Violation on Violin Out - 00:33:56: Reviewing Wetland Discharge & Tree Cutting Photos - 00:37:10: Enforcement Order: Debris in Brook Behind Stop & Shop - 00:42:30: Preventing Dumping & Maintaining Cleanliness at Stop & Shop - 00:47:40: Motion to Amend Order for Stop & Shop Debris - 00:48:57: Staff Report: Unpermitted Addition Near Wetland on Orange Street - 00:51:21: Meeting Adjournment Part: 1 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:15.519 Awesome. I will call to order the Conservation Commission meeting for Wednesday, March 25th, 2026 at 6 PM. In attendance, Anthony, Jason Gumpert, Tom O'Brien, and Megan Logan. First order of business is the 2 00:00:15.519 --> 00:00:40.120 approval of minutes. Everyone have a chance to read all of them for the first one's for 225. for the laws of blueprint your name. Okay. >> Your initial next to video and then date and signature and everything else. 3 00:00:48.879 --> 00:01:13.520 >> What is >> 25th? >> 25th of March. Can I get a motion to >> I was I was uh >> he's got to abstain. He wasn't >> I have to here. >> Motion to approve the minutes the open 4 00:01:13.520 --> 00:01:30.159 session minutes of 225 20226. >> Second. >> All is there? I >> Okay, everyone get a chance to read the 311. >> Not in there. >> They're not in yet. >> Ah, all right. Well done. We'll skip that. The extension >> motion to 5 00:01:30.159 --> 00:01:45.600 make >> I'll make a motion to continue. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> Okay. >> Extension permit D file 150-0454 request for extension permit for order of conditions and municipal properties 6 00:01:45.600 --> 00:02:00.880 rights aways easements etc. Applic town of East DPW 60 center square east mass 01028. So, their uh blanket order for like general maintenance is expiring and they're looking to get an extension for another 3 years before they'd actually 7 00:02:00.880 --> 00:02:16.879 have to like totally refile. Uh it reads the same as any other order conditions except for your special conditions. Uh we can't change it. So, it's either we extend it or we don't. Um it's just it's general maintenance and then it calls out I mean you're welcome 8 00:02:16.879 --> 00:02:37.280 to read it all for yourself, but the summary is that it's general maintenance. specifies they need to tell us and it specifies that if there's a covert replacement that's a separate filing that doesn't it's not covered under general maintenance. So >> So the there should be a vote to approve 9 00:02:37.280 --> 00:02:55.760 that to to extend the permit >> the first by three years. >> Okay. Um, >> no. >> This has been boiler plate for for as long as I've been on the commission 20 years. >> Yep. >> So, motion to extend the permit for D 10 00:02:55.760 --> 00:03:14.159 file number 150-50454. >> All those in favor? >> I monitor. >> Let's uh >> sign it. >> Sign motion and seconded. >> Oh, okay. made the or he made the most I 11 00:03:14.159 --> 00:03:44.680 >> second where we guys are next. >> All right, >> there two copies. Alex. >> Yeah. >> Okay, cool. >> How are you guys? Good. How are you? James. 12 00:03:48.159 --> 00:04:10.400 >> Yeah, it sounds like it. >> I think if it was like apartment thing or something. At first I saw car seats and I thought it was like a car one of those car seat trade in events where you you know you cut the straps you bring your car seat in they give you a voucher to go get a 13 00:04:10.400 --> 00:04:27.840 discount on another car seat. >> Really? >> Yeah. Uh-huh. Cuz car seats are they >> call them lifespan or if you don't have kids that are that little anymore and they're still good car seats. You cut the straps and you can bring them into these special events and they give people vouchers to get new car seats. 14 00:04:27.840 --> 00:04:43.280 >> Cool. >> Kind of cool actually. Yeah. >> Yeah, it is pretty cool. It's Target I think does it >> really >> and they do um on all the different sites. There's a buy nothing Long Meadow East Long Meadow on that. Yeah. >> Yeah. They announce it when it's coming up time because they they actually put an announcement when it's coming say okay you can bring all your car seats 15 00:04:43.280 --> 00:04:57.520 here. >> You got to cut the straps on them. >> You have to cut the straps and cuz people will posting hey I'm looking for anyone who has car seats to go to the event. Yeah. It's pretty cool. >> Tell my wife. >> Yeah. Absolutely. Cuz they're so expensive. >> Yeah. They are. >> And they expire after like 5 years. 16 00:04:57.520 --> 00:05:17.759 >> They do. Yeah. They expire. Yeah. Yeah. What's up? >> Buy the next one. I got one in the oven. So, >> what are you talking about? >> I think they're like double now when I when my kids were double the cost now. 17 00:05:17.759 --> 00:05:37.680 It's crazy. >> Yeah. Everything's crazy now. Bottle of water is $2. >> Cost more money to fill my truck up with water than it would Yeah. >> $7 for that 18 00:05:37.680 --> 00:05:53.919 >> for water. Got a gallon of water in the grocery store. It's $3.99. It's like same as gas. >> Four bucks. >> Back to the beam. Project monitoring. Yeah. >> Go 20251 stream alteration at 633 to 759 19 00:05:53.919 --> 00:06:08.400 Summers Road. >> Yeah. >> Um I just want to run you through this packet I put together for you. Um we have the original enforcement order complete. Uh the comments that came with that original order from me. Uh we have 20 00:06:08.400 --> 00:06:25.440 the last letter we sent out on the 13th of this month. Uh we have an ortho of the whole parcel and the stream. And then we have what they submitted. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. For the engineer. So they have all >> there was some >> there was some confusion between the the conflicting emails of the I had two 21 00:06:25.440 --> 00:06:42.240 Alexes and my emails. I told him when he was coming back from his trip, right? Or you were in >> Yeah. Yeah. In Florida. >> I I sent the email and I sent to the wrong Alex and I sent him a screenshot of it. But we had the wherever the date is on the um literature there that you have. That's when I received the uh 22 00:06:42.240 --> 00:06:59.759 engineered data. Next, next page, Tony. All right, that one. That's the letter and all the data behind it. Had to sell his kidney to get the money to pay for that guy. So, no, just kidding. 23 00:06:59.759 --> 00:07:18.199 >> I'm still recovering. >> Who are you each of you? >> I'm a good friend of Jim since I've been this big. >> I'm Jim. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> He's the owner. Talk to him. >> He's the brains. >> Yeah, right. That's why I'm letting him do the talking. 24 00:07:33.759 --> 00:08:00.000 >> Are there do we have additional comments on the this that was returned or >> No. Okay. Got it. No, no, that's fine. I just was curious. Make sure I'm not missing something. I did um highlight I think the only thing that was pertinent to the new submission I just highlighted it in 25 00:08:00.000 --> 00:08:18.720 yellow on the original comments. So >> Oh yes. >> Yeah, that was that was >> because that's what's in question, right? Is that it is a stream, >> right? Yeah, >> that's a stream. It's not a name stream. That's a >> It's like some kind of intermittent. >> I would call that an intermittent 26 00:08:18.720 --> 00:08:33.279 stream. >> Yeah. So, we we had hired a couple different people to come out and we had some consultations and two of the guys who came out. One was from Lov said, "I can't calculate anything. There's no It was bone dry when they got there." Like, what do you want me to calculate here? It's dry. There's no uh indication of 27 00:08:33.279 --> 00:08:48.320 moisture. Like, they they said that, you know, it's just low. It's if it's wet, it's because it's lower than the road. But um we finally got some water in there and then the guy we hired there, he was able to calculate with all this data and some CAD program he had over a 28 00:08:48.320 --> 00:09:04.399 100redyear table of how much water those pipes could keep up with him. It's like 500 the pipes are like 500 times the amount that you'd actually get. It could take whatever he wrote in there 100 storm. >> Yes. >> So is there is there more than one pipe? There's two side by side just like 29 00:09:04.399 --> 00:09:20.880 there. He calls it upgradient. Upgradient. Upgradient. It's the twin sisters of the pipes that are downgradient that we reinstalled that were dilapidated and he needs access to get remember the conversation we had. We replaced what was there and he was having trouble crossing over them 30 00:09:20.880 --> 00:09:35.760 because he was scared that they were going to collapse cuz they were metal pipes. We replaced them with ads pipes. Big 18 corugated. >> Yeah. 24s like the town uses the big >> $4,000 per 20 foot. What's the diameter of these pipes? >> 24. >> Two 24 side by side. 31 00:09:35.760 --> 00:09:50.959 >> 24s. >> And that's what upgradient is the same exact thing. So if it's making it through those two pipes over the course of the last whatever 50 years, they got to it's going to make it through the ones down gradient is he kept calling it up gradient. The engineer, he was out 32 00:09:50.959 --> 00:10:07.839 there a ton. I mean he if you go by that month that that was done, he was out there with >> Yeah, I know that area pretty well. I know that it dries out. It gets super wet at times. There's no way in the world that there would ever be enough water to where you'd be clogging up with two right 33 00:10:07.839 --> 00:10:24.800 >> pipes that size. >> I think there's a couple of points here, right? One is delineation. Is it a stream? Is it an intermittent stream or not? >> That is an intermittent stream in my professional opinion. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And then if it is um following the 34 00:10:24.800 --> 00:10:42.240 process to do any work on that, right? Like that's that's the other reason we're here. um like any further work? >> No. Anything you've already done and how to and how to resolve it, right? Um >> yes. >> What I don't see from the civil engineer is anything about delineation. Um where 35 00:10:42.240 --> 00:10:59.120 the work, you know, where the work's been done in terms of its relation to the intermittent stream. Um I think that's one of the main issues we're dealing with, right? I think he he put a is there a measurement in there that shows where it is where the the 36 00:10:59.120 --> 00:11:15.440 entrance is? >> He put it in there off like a topographical map. >> Well, I think I don't know this little tiny this little tiny >> this shows an error >> wherever the entrance was. He he wrote 37 00:11:15.440 --> 00:11:35.200 in there that it was, you know, uh all like erosion control was there in place and stuff like that. He wasn't concerned about anything like that. And >> we have no plan, right? Like this was never >> right. Well, we were we were I right that's why we're here in the first place 38 00:11:35.200 --> 00:11:50.880 and we were so apologetic at the time because we didn't know we were just trying to help a farmer and I utilized my in town resources to do so and I didn't know there was no water. It was bowing dry. He was just trying to cross it to get to his barn to feed his sheep 39 00:11:50.880 --> 00:12:08.160 and we replaced them. And then we dealt with the aftermath of the town saying that we crossed boundaries and you know all this other stuff that we didn't do it systematically. So, but that's what got us here in the first place. And now we're trying to deal with the aftermath of trying it to do it the right way. 40 00:12:08.160 --> 00:12:24.360 >> Yeah. >> It probably would have been a lot easier if we started by contacting Alex and going through the motions, but >> how many years has it been there now? Three. >> Yeah. Two and a half. 41 00:12:24.480 --> 00:12:43.600 >> Yeah. >> Right. Yeah, >> that's about right. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Um, it's been one of the best I don't want to say it, but it's one of the best looking coverts in the town. I mean, I've seen them all. You know, it's just it's clean. It's like I said, it's bone 42 00:12:43.600 --> 00:12:58.160 dry half the time. I would say 60 40 60% of the year it's bone dry. The other 40s when we get a heavy rain um or there's snow melting it their water accumulates. But it's great. >> Uh my personal feeling is I'm pro farm 43 00:12:58.160 --> 00:13:14.639 and it is to access sheep. It is a farm in town that's active. Seen enough farms go by the wayside in this town. It is just an old farm drainage ditch that was designed for the diversion of water so that the fields would stay dry. 44 00:13:14.639 --> 00:13:30.720 You know, part of that property to the right's wet, but that entrance and egress is been there for a long time and it's stabilized. And I I don't really see any upside in having it dug up at this point. This is 45 00:13:30.720 --> 00:13:46.639 me personally because what's the upside? We're going to lose a active sheep pasture or make it difficult for the farmer to access it. So >> yeah, that's personal. The board may want other things or have different feelings, but that's just my personal 46 00:13:46.639 --> 00:14:04.560 feeling on it. >> Well, Jim's not getting any younger. And like I said originally, the gas company has that right away to the other crossing, and they're blocking him 80% of the time with all their trucks doing gas company work. And that's why we tried to reclaim that other access so he 47 00:14:04.560 --> 00:14:20.880 doesn't have to huff it. His truck's out there full of hay. I mean he he doesn't have to huff it from what's that 700 ft away >> 700 ft to the barn >> whatever it is. >> Is it 700? >> I don't know. I don't I don't count. >> It's roughly I think it's rough. >> You guys possess a rightaway through that through that easement the gas 48 00:14:20.880 --> 00:14:37.040 company owns or that's their >> that's on his property. >> It's on his property though. >> It's their easement. >> So they brock it. He's you can't really tell them all to move, you know. >> Yeah. I don't know the legalities of them. >> They stage up pretty heavy if there's if 49 00:14:37.040 --> 00:14:52.560 if there's activity going on there. It's not just one truck. There's like six of them. You know, they're working on the main that's like the main hub for the gas station. >> Especially when they were doing all the tree work and stuff like that. The place was blocked. >> They gated it, right? It's it's fenced. >> Yeah. 50 00:14:52.560 --> 00:15:09.920 >> So, they blocked the the access to the farm. >> 80 60 70% of the time he goes there, it's blocked. And that's the rationale for >> I've seen him do it, but it's just >> yeah, >> that's the rationale for reclaiming that 51 00:15:09.920 --> 00:15:26.800 other spot just so he doesn't >> not get any younger. >> God forbid something happened to him, too. The fire department would have a way to get to him versus having to go. It's like 700 I think it's 700 ft if I had to put my tape on it. I think it's about that. 52 00:15:26.800 --> 00:15:42.320 probably says it in there how far it is from the other one. >> She says it. >> So I kind of agree Tom if I understand what you're saying. It's I don't think the issue I don't think there's any issue with the idea that this got built 53 00:15:42.320 --> 00:15:59.279 or this was a project that you wanted to do. I think the question of was there any from our as like you know conservation commission was there any you know anything that well a I probably should have been an RDA first right as as sort of a um 54 00:15:59.279 --> 00:16:15.120 sort of a first step before anything got built at least >> uh this would have been a it's a stream crossing so it would have been a notice of intent. >> Okay. >> If they had come at that time. Yeah. >> Yeah. Um, and what I'm not clear on from what you've submitted so far is if 55 00:16:15.120 --> 00:16:33.440 anything needs to be done to, you know, um, to do, uh, you know, to fix any potential damage that was done or if there's anything that needs to be anything that was disturbed in a in the intermittent stream setting that hasn't been done 56 00:16:33.440 --> 00:16:48.079 yet. >> Right. I think at the end it might I don't want to interrupt or or anyone up there >> or quote anything in there but I think it says in there that everything stabilized. >> It does say >> I I I don't know what page it's on but I did read it months ago. I just I've read 57 00:16:48.079 --> 00:17:04.559 a lot since then are 40 ft long and have approximately 5 to 5 ft of cover over them. Side slopes are approximately 21 horizontal to vertical and appear well stabilized and reveated. >> Yeah, there's already like full vegetation on them. version control waddles are still in place. 58 00:17:04.559 --> 00:17:20.400 >> Yeah, there's waddles still in place. We didn't take those out yet just because >> why not? Why take >> has anyone from board visited this the site? Have >> he has? >> I have. I was just out there recently looking last week. 59 00:17:20.400 --> 00:17:36.559 >> Yeah, we were already out so >> there was some water running but it was run off. >> Okay, thank looked like it was doing a job. Yeah. I mean, um, >> plus there's no wash outs over there or anything like that. No. 60 00:17:36.559 --> 00:17:52.720 >> Yeah. >> I think what originally got the town >> Tom said that that had to be >> was all that like there was >> a trench. >> There's no farmer. He took the burlap bags, he put the rocks in them. He was just putting to make it look nice and I think that's what drew attention to it and that's why we ended up here. But we should have been here since day one 61 00:17:52.720 --> 00:18:07.919 starting the process like it's supposed to be now that we know obviously. But >> are you putting up a new gate? Uh, so we got saw some posts when I Felix gave us the um the green light to prior to all this 62 00:18:07.919 --> 00:18:24.400 told us that we had the curb cut or whatever. We got approved for that and we were going to start the process just putting that apron in so that I think the town that's the protocol if you're using an entrance you need to put the apron in. Um, but we were in the process of that and then we kind of got Alex had made a call and we had to get the 63 00:18:24.400 --> 00:18:41.200 engineer out there to confirm that everything was up to snuff and uh we kind of backtracked and that now we're trying to move forward, but um I'd have to follow back up with that. I'm assuming a curb cut's probably only good for a certain amount of time, right? >> I don't know if they expire, but um I 64 00:18:41.200 --> 00:18:57.919 What were the requirements for I think you had to pay Yeah, you said an apron like how far back did you have to pave in? I think it was 15 ft by 40 ft wide and he wanted like 12 in of hard pack and I have it written down at my desk but it was like 12 in of hard pack, 3 in of some other dense grade material and 65 00:18:57.919 --> 00:19:14.320 um then he wanted asphalt. But then then we raised the question every farm you go down 83 all has 3/4 gravel going in. It's just it's just a uh you know he's he's he's looking at everybody else. Oh, they got rock, they got rock, the apple place got rock. All these other places 66 00:19:14.320 --> 00:19:31.039 have rock and they're wanting to put 15 grand into an apron that no one else has. So it it I don't know. We're just going to try to get it right. But so I'm just going to point out that that project will have to come before us already again. So they are going to be in front of us again for that because it's so because of the proximity to the 67 00:19:31.039 --> 00:19:46.720 stream. So when you're making decisions tonight, just keep that in mind. >> Paving in that area, putting on crush stone, potentially changing the grade a little bit. >> Yeah, it's like what is it? 50 ft from the stream. Yeah. 50 ft away. >> I don't remember anymore. >> It's like 50 ft from the pin. Yeah. So 68 00:19:46.720 --> 00:20:03.200 that 50 ft or 60 ft from the actual stream. So yeah, they only want 15 ft. So you're not anywhere near the stream if you put the apron in anyways. But >> um >> well, if it's inside of a what a buffer zone for for that, then we do need to >> Is there a spe spe spe spe spe spe spe 69 00:20:03.200 --> 00:20:18.400 spe spe spe spe spe spe spe spe spe spe spe spe spe specific measurement that >> 100 ft is the what? >> 100 ft buffer. Yeah. >> Yeah. From that stream. So it it's in the vegetative wetlands or the bordering vegetative wetlands. Um yeah. So you have to come before us. 70 00:20:18.400 --> 00:20:35.120 That would be a notice antenna or an RDA. Probably an RDA. >> We'd need to see the plan. Um >> yeah, >> probably go out and look and measure too if we could. >> I think Felix is the one who did the did the actual plan. I don't know if if that sounds right or not, but he sent me a someone from the town sent me a sketch 71 00:20:35.120 --> 00:20:51.039 of what they wanted with the depths and everything like that. And Gary Turnberg was going to help me proon to help him out to excavate it and get it prepped for asphalt. >> I think an RDA would qualify on that just because of the the distance. >> It's just intermittent stream that 72 00:20:51.039 --> 00:21:07.120 >> literally is bone dry at times a year and >> maybe if that thing gets 6 in deep, that would probably be the the wetest part of the year. it. Yeah, I don't I don't really I mean when I went out to measure with the DVW that was more than a year ago now, 73 00:21:07.120 --> 00:21:23.520 so I don't remember exact distances. Uh but knowing that they have to come back. >> Sure. >> One thing to consider is that you could encompass all of this under which is kind I think we mentioned that in one of these letters or at least in one of our meetings that being an option 74 00:21:23.520 --> 00:21:39.280 that you guys considered. >> Oh yes. So it's not several different >> things going on depending on what you want to do. >> Request for determination of applicability regarding both the apron and the existing work that's now 3 years old 75 00:21:39.280 --> 00:21:54.880 and grown over >> potentially. Yeah. Something to consider >> if we had Yeah. I mean if if there was work to to delineate future work, we could use that and look back at what you've already done, >> right? 76 00:21:54.880 --> 00:22:11.600 So that would I think make things easier on you um than asking you to to do more delineation now like like Tom said on something that's already like thrown in and um I don't know how others on the board 77 00:22:11.600 --> 00:22:33.360 feel about that but try >> okay Um, >> what do we need to actually >> I don't vote. Do we need to vote on anything or do we need to do anything specifically? >> I think we need to pick a Well, you need 78 00:22:33.360 --> 00:22:50.880 to pick a pack word first and then um >> I mean that everything pivots on that. So, >> okay, got it. >> I can answer more after I know. >> No, no, no. That's fair, Alex. That's fair. So, >> I'm glad we're having this discussion because Felix kind of gave us the green 79 00:22:50.880 --> 00:23:06.960 light. He said, "Get it, get the apron in and how to do it before the winter and now we're dealing with this." >> He's thinking about the storm water and he's thinking about muddy tires, tracking the road and then going in. >> I have no clue. Yeah, >> that's what No, that's exactly what he's thinking. >> I mean, I had people Yeah. I like I said I had I had my buddy looking to help and 80 00:23:06.960 --> 00:23:23.600 he was go and then we heard from you and I was like okay >> 15 put a hold on all this >> and put 12 or 15 >> I don't no he was great maybe I misunders I don't want to throw anybody in this I just I might have misunderstood what he meant but I 81 00:23:23.600 --> 00:23:38.480 thought we were >> No you're fine he was telling me what to do like with the depths and all that I thought >> not going to watch this >> we have an open dig safe ticket still so just keep renewing it But I don't know if that matters or not, but >> it's easier than getting it redone. 82 00:23:38.480 --> 00:23:53.760 >> Yeah. >> So, Liz, what do you think? I make an aer make a motion for an RDA to come back for the apron. >> Yeah. And maybe we just include everything in that like the scope of everything so it's like documented and then we can have it on file basically 83 00:23:53.760 --> 00:24:10.159 encompass like all the Yeah. How do we put those into one? So, we're taking this project and applying that to the next RDA for the apron. >> You Yeah, you would just include everything that was already completed 84 00:24:10.159 --> 00:24:26.480 and then the >> upcoming work to put the apron in and into the entire RDA. >> It would still need to be You would still want to plan for that, right? With like a delineated plan sheet with like proposed conditions. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Okay. 85 00:24:26.480 --> 00:24:42.880 >> I'm pretty sure we do. Yeah. Right. So we they know >> how do we vote for something that doesn't exist? >> Well, no. I think we just have to come to we don't have to vote, right? We just come, okay, this is our plan going forward is we are going to do an RDA include >> want make this is not Yeah, >> this is an enforcement monitor. 86 00:24:42.880 --> 00:24:58.240 >> Yeah. Do we just extend? >> We we would just modify like either dissolve or modify it to just set a new binding date. >> Okay. to keep it open and it would just be now it's >> it's going to be turned into this. 87 00:24:58.240 --> 00:25:13.919 >> Submit us the plans for the final product, right? That's if that's the path you want to go, that's >> No, that makes sense. Yeah, that makes sense. >> My recommendation is come to an agreed upon >> date. Date timeline. Okay. >> Um, 88 00:25:13.919 --> 00:25:30.799 so who does who do we speak with on that? Is we'd have to come back with what kind of plan? Who would I speak to for that? Well, it is it's up to them more than more than me, but it >> Okay. So, I should be >> typically it would be it would be like delineations and and a plan that shows just the proposed proposed conditions in 89 00:25:30.799 --> 00:25:45.919 that area. >> Okay. So, like whatever the the measurements that the town gave us, you just want to see kind of a a like the Smitty have to get involved in this or >> survey >> like do I need to like draw it to have them sketch it up or like how do you want it proposed? It's like we can 90 00:25:45.919 --> 00:26:03.120 sketch it up on a paper or >> the stakes are already there. >> What we typically see is a wetlands consultant who delineates and also describes the work that's going to be done and a professional could give you the right format of how that should be presented to us. So make 91 00:26:03.120 --> 00:26:18.799 it okay >> if it's an RDA then we can make a determination of um if it's applicable or not. >> Okay. Um, and I think one of the things we're talking about as part of the conditions here is adding is is saying that we want to see sort of a list of 92 00:26:18.799 --> 00:26:34.640 different details uh in that kind of a in that kind of a submission to us that covers the work that was already done and anything you're doing like you said with a with a driveway or whatever. Is that does that summarize it right? Well, yeah, but I'm going to tell you 93 00:26:34.640 --> 00:26:50.640 historically like you can you can hire a professional and a surveyor >> and go to great lengths, >> right? >> Also, we've also had members of the public come before us with drawn sketches. >> Yeah, >> I just didn't Yeah, I just didn't want to come in here with something that you guys wouldn't improve on. So, I agree. 94 00:26:50.640 --> 00:27:06.880 Just to scale to scale it with measurements and all that stuff. We'll do >> scale it with measurements. But I think if you everything that you already have submitted >> sure as well. >> Um >> and then the new >> okay >> the new you guys would hold all that 95 00:27:06.880 --> 00:27:22.080 literature that from the engineers that you guys have the copies of. We would come before you with the measurements on the apron with in relation to what the town had advocated for. Um and then you guys would make a decision. I I'm I'm really confused about the RDA thing. 96 00:27:22.080 --> 00:27:38.000 Yeah, it's a request for determination applicability. Um, so basically we're trying to make this as easy for you guys as possible. A ton of money. >> Um, so if you fill out fill that out and you can work with Alex to fill out the form. He can share the form with you. He can tell you where to 97 00:27:38.000 --> 00:27:54.000 >> All right. That's what I wanted to know cuz I'm like we're going to leave here. >> No, it's a it's a it's a form and you can fill it out. Um, you can include what the engineer's given. Okay. Um the thing that the thing that we are missing though from the what's been done is like a sketch of where that work took place 98 00:27:54.000 --> 00:28:08.960 and >> we need a sket we'll sketch it out. We'll put a put it uh >> Yeah. >> Okay. I >> Yeah. And then a sketch of what's what you're going to do with the whole apron part and all those measurements. That' be like the secondary part of that. Everything from Felix. >> Yeah. I just think that's his that's his 99 00:28:08.960 --> 00:28:24.640 protocol for an apron and the measurements he had. >> Absolutely. And you can and you can put in that you're requesting to do the stone and not the asphalt. If you're going to go back and argue that with the town, that's totally fine. Either way, you can do two. >> Would that be with you guys or would that be with somebody else? Like the 100 00:28:24.640 --> 00:28:39.200 stone. If we want to do a stone apron, who do you >> I mean, >> I would think feel like if you're going to go to them and say, "Hey, we want to do this instead." Then just >> I might do that. I mean, yeah. >> I mean, the money's running out. I mean, you know what I mean? I don't want to 101 00:28:39.200 --> 00:28:55.440 make if he can if if he could make the argument, I think we're going to try to do that cuz you know how much asphalt is, >> you know. >> Yeah. >> Yep. Absolutely. And then when you get all everything all um filled out and everything, you would just submit it. And I think is it an online or he sends it in? >> It's online. 102 00:28:55.440 --> 00:29:11.279 >> It's online. >> Yeah. Now we do it. It's just easy. You don't have anything to show up. >> Yeah. >> Oh, so I just go on the conservation uh and the >> It'll say apply online. Yeah. And you can do it all there and if you have any issues with it, I usually nobody does. They've got it pretty polished now, but it keeps you from having to come in and out of the office. >> Sure. Okay. I can do I'm sure I can 103 00:29:11.279 --> 00:29:27.840 figure it out. >> And then as soon as it's submitted, um, Alex will let us know. >> And then we'll back we're back on the agenda. >> Yep. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Absolutely. >> Yeah. >> Um, so we should pro you should probably consider like an between the two of you like an agreed upon like realistic 104 00:29:27.840 --> 00:29:43.600 date. >> Sure. >> Of when you think you'll have it filed and submitted. I guess I just I I just have to work with the town the Felix, right? And he he'll kind of >> Yep. >> for the asphalt part. Yeah. >> He'll just say, "Hey, you got to do this. You got to do that. I understand 105 00:29:43.600 --> 00:29:59.600 your argument. Maybe you can get away with doing this or something." Okay. I I I'll get to him hopefully get to him this week and then if I don't, it'll be at the beginning of next week. >> Do you want to say um two meetings from now? Just >> when would that push us out? >> That would be from now. 106 00:29:59.600 --> 00:30:16.799 >> We could Oh, that's long. We could do April 22nd or May 13th. That's >> more realist. >> 22nd. May whatever year. >> Is he going to have to move quick if it's going to be the 22nd? It's a public hearing, so it needs to be posted in the >> Yeah, we'll do the 22nd. I I mean, he I can make this I can make the the drawing 107 00:30:16.799 --> 00:30:33.600 in relation to all the measurements there. We have all that. He paid extensive money for effect to do something originally. I have everything I need for >> totally cool. Yeah, we just we have to be able to do the public the public hearing cuz it's an RDA. And then we'll provide that sketch and then whatever uh Felix provides me for 108 00:30:33.600 --> 00:30:49.919 um what kind of product he wants in the end result to be I can >> um bring it to you guys and you guys make a decision. >> You just include all that in the in the submission >> and scale make it relative to like the gas pipeline because that's hard fixed structures that >> okay 109 00:30:49.919 --> 00:31:06.720 >> layman can or everyday people can look at and say oh all right >> okay they can pinpoint that to that. Okay. In relation to that measure, there's no relevance to >> Okay. >> Yeah, we have the whole >> Yeah. >> big blueprint we can bring to if you want to see it. 110 00:31:06.720 --> 00:31:22.559 >> Um All right, that sounds good. >> Okay, >> good. >> You guys want to just consider like we expect it on the 20? We expect to hear you two again on the 22nd, but maybe just set it for the 13th just so it gives them a grace period in case there's a delay. >> 13th of May, >> two weeks behind. 111 00:31:22.559 --> 00:31:38.240 >> Yeah. So that way just so that way we don't have to like discuss it again if there's no and they just >> we could >> you can push it as far as you want. We're not in a rush. >> We'll expect the 22nd if anything happens. We know that we can push it to the 13th if we need to. >> That's perfect agreement. >> I appreciate that. >> So you want to just continue this 112 00:31:38.240 --> 00:31:55.679 enforcement order to the 13th of May or whenever they come before us with an RDA? We should continue it to the 22nd, but like we should set the deadline in the enforcement order at least or you should consider setting it to the 13th so that way it doesn't like 113 00:31:55.679 --> 00:32:13.919 >> so it doesn't expire. >> So let's extend it to the 22nd. >> The public. So, we'll sorry, we'll amend we'll amend the order to to request them to put together a plan and have it filed with 114 00:32:13.919 --> 00:32:31.279 us by May 13th. And then if you have everything and you're ready to be on an agenda for the 22nd, that's great. That's that's what you should consider just to give them a window. >> Makes sense. >> All right. I make a motion to amend the enforcement order to extend it to April 115 00:32:31.279 --> 00:32:47.679 22nd with a hard line of May 13th, 2026. >> Yeah. Um and then um and then you'll we'll continue it to the 22nd. So we'll next discuss it at that time. >> Continue it to the 22nd. 116 00:32:47.679 --> 00:33:04.480 >> I get all that. >> All those in favor? >> Can you repeat that? >> I understand. All those in favor? >> I. >> Okay, cool. >> Who seconded that? It was made it second. >> I think Tony seconded it. Yes. 117 00:33:04.480 --> 00:33:23.039 >> I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Jason. I meant Jason. >> All right. Give Jason one. >> Thank my first step of business is to to file that form on the uh town website. Uh the first step will be to talk to DPW upstairs to know exactly what your 118 00:33:23.039 --> 00:33:39.200 project is going to be. Yep. And then once you have like the plans together, like all of that, we'll get you you'll file your plan with the application online and and when you get to that point, I I'll follow up with an email tomorrow, but like when you get to that point, if you have any questions, I can help you with it. >> All right. Thank you. >> You guys are all set. 119 00:33:39.200 --> 00:33:56.799 >> Thank you guys. Appreciate it. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Rest your meeting. Thanks, Alex. 825-06 violation at 30 violin out. Okay. 120 00:33:56.799 --> 00:34:13.599 Well, we have good news. Um, I called Sally and um, somebody helped her hire somebody. So, uh, I reached out. She said she thinks she hired LC to to put a restoration plan together, but we, uh, but she wasn't positive. So, I sent him 121 00:34:13.599 --> 00:34:29.839 an email right at the end of the day before I left just to confirm. So, but she did meet the deadline with somebody. Um, cool. >> And then, so really, um, the only thing to really review is, uh, the updated 122 00:34:29.839 --> 00:34:46.240 photos that I took a couple weeks ago when I went over there with the building commissioner. The first photo is of the um discharge wetland from the gutter system 123 00:34:46.240 --> 00:35:07.760 and then the rest you can just yourself. I just know that one it's it's hard to see the pipe. >> Which photo is the first one? >> So the pipe is right in the shadow. Oh, that one. >> Oh, that's crazy. Yeah, that's just hard to see. It's right here. >> Oh, 124 00:35:07.760 --> 00:35:25.200 >> yeah. It's difficult. >> That collects all the N >> getting calls tonight. >> Apologies for that. >> It's okay. Mine rang earlier. >> And the two trees that were I guess 125 00:35:25.200 --> 00:35:41.520 >> was that part of Were those part of the the cutting that was done? There's Yeah, there's I mean there's pictures of a lot more than two. >> Those are the only two you can see in that picture. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's a >> These are all new pictures that are in here that you haven't unless you've seen them on the portal. I put them on the portal uh for you to see the Google 126 00:35:41.520 --> 00:35:59.040 Drive. Um >> those pipe from a gutter. >> Yeah. >> Going right into the stream. Some of those trees are big. Yeah. They're huge. >> And they're just to give you better eyes on it cuz I know not everybody went out. Yeah. So, 127 00:35:59.040 --> 00:36:14.800 >> I see this right here. Look right here. See that? Is the black. >> Oh, I thought that was a shadow. >> No, >> some of them have the the limbs or the trunks even left still on the site. >> Some of them are not are not on site. >> Yeah, we asked them to stop. 128 00:36:14.800 --> 00:36:34.000 >> Yeah, cuz it's crazy. So for this one, are we just waiting to hear >> that to see who who she hired in and the plan is that? >> Right. So she's >> she is supposedly on schedule with the deadlines. Okay. 129 00:36:34.000 --> 00:36:55.680 >> So and and let me see what the next I go back to the order like what we're expecting for the next um yeah we don't see we don't we're not going to hear anything for her again until the 18th. when there should be some level of some plan together. 130 00:36:55.680 --> 00:37:10.240 >> Got it. >> Look at like the existing conditions of the site delineations. That's what we should be expecting. >> Okay. >> Um but yeah, there's nothing to do there because everything's >> timely. 131 00:37:10.240 --> 00:37:25.440 >> Okay, that's perfect. >> I think we're good until we hear from whoever it is to be tired. >> So, we're good on that one. Yep. Yes. >> All right. EO2025-05 carts and other debris in Brook and Bank 132 00:37:25.440 --> 00:37:43.280 at 406 to 46 North Main Street. >> This is the Stop and Shop Plaza, right? >> Right. So Tony and I went out last week. >> Went out last week. Um and since we were already out and about, I decid we can't get a hold of them through the information on the property card, the 133 00:37:43.280 --> 00:37:59.680 registered owners. So, we went into Stop and Shop and talked to a manager there who gave me a phone number for a contact for the property owners. Since we had discussed the carts that are like in the brook that they definitely don't know are there that are like way back. >> Um 134 00:37:59.680 --> 00:38:16.720 >> the Yeah, the the dumping in uh just behind the buildings has uh continued. It's it's definitely a like just the same as last time. It's a combination of >> Yeah. people going back there and then stuff like that's just like the stuff in the bins. It's definitely they're like blowing out of the bins or whatever. 135 00:38:16.720 --> 00:38:33.119 Yeah. Um, so I put together um this I just changed the um description to include not just the carts now to include the other debris that's by the 136 00:38:33.119 --> 00:38:49.119 buildings uh in the brook to clean. >> Can we ask for a plan to like I don't know prevent it from happening, right? >> More frequent cleanup checkups or something like that. They're responsive. Were they not last night? >> Yeah, it seems like they might have 137 00:38:49.119 --> 00:39:04.240 changed owners because we had when we had >> Yeah. When we had issued the the enforcement order just for those carts more recently that it kept bouncing back like it kept coming return to sender no address >> and they were >> so it seems like they might have changed hands, but what whoever owns it now, we 138 00:39:04.240 --> 00:39:19.520 allegedly have a phone number for them and I just haven't called them because we don't I didn't know if you wanted to amend this to include um the dumping. That's >> yeah, we should absolutely include the >> back again. But yes, they were responsive whoever, you know, the previous owners. Yeah, 139 00:39:19.520 --> 00:39:35.760 >> we put signs up. That's >> There were already signs up >> that say what? >> No dumping. >> Anything else? >> Right on the edge. >> I mean, if I >> said no dumping, whatever. >> If someone sees a sign and doesn't see a camera, they're going to do whatever they want. 140 00:39:35.760 --> 00:39:50.880 >> So, >> I think there's been a homeless encampments back there. >> You think? >> Yeah. And those carts didn't walk themselves over there and they're all >> they did not. >> Well, so those some of those >> thing that would make sense is that 141 00:39:50.880 --> 00:40:07.280 people are living back there utilizing the carts is >> some of those carts look old enough that even I've never seen that design before. Some of them have been there for a while, but there are some newer ones. >> It might be him. >> That's why he said 142 00:40:07.280 --> 00:40:23.520 >> I think there's an electric one in there too, isn't there? Yeah, there's that was concern is there's electric one in the >> um >> homeless must have got tired >> back in style. >> Oh, some more place. >> Yeah, riding. >> I mean, it doesn't look like an encampment. It's not like there are 143 00:40:23.520 --> 00:40:38.880 tarps or >> I'd like to know. >> Yeah, but so that goes down a hill to the brook and then it goes up an embankments to the old >> railroad. Yeah. And then if you go over that >> EPA 723 144 00:40:38.880 --> 00:40:54.400 >> so go down the bank behind stop >> wondering when this was built >> built. >> Oh prection >> it does >> they wouldn't build that now. >> This is railroad. >> No no this was in >> the bike path or just a walking path. >> I think building's like 50 145 00:40:54.400 --> 00:41:11.359 >> it comes out under >> the water goes underneath. >> Oh no no railroad track. I remember when they parts are >> furthest and they made windows for Anderson windows. >> I don't know what the axis was and they tore that down and that was in the >> they got from Stop and Shops 146 00:41:11.359 --> 00:41:27.760 made away if it was >> this was the whole brand. There was nothing there. This was a whole brand new >> complex. >> I can recheck the property correct for the age. >> Tom. >> Yeah. >> When did they build this complex? Late 70s. >> Um >> I know it was AMP. You remember the food 147 00:41:27.760 --> 00:41:44.480 stand there? It was I'm dating myself. So it would have been Well, there was Brockway Smith there and they tore that down. >> That's it. Brockway Smith. That was in the 80s. They tore that down. >> Yeah, that sounds right. >> Like late '7s, early 80s. >> Yeah, >> maybe the property card is just dating 148 00:41:44.480 --> 00:42:00.160 the parcel then cuz I think it's I I'm pretty sure it says something. >> There was a gas station up front, gas town >> that was up the street. It's >> probably dating the parcel itself. So, this was all new and I was just curious who who who approved this. 149 00:42:00.160 --> 00:42:15.680 >> Yeah, you're not even 50 ft. I >> know. We see a lot of this, >> but yeah, let's include >> that wasn't even there. Brockway Smith was there on the right where the parking is. >> No, there was a >> there was a fruit stand in the front and then that got torn down and they built 150 00:42:15.680 --> 00:42:30.880 that. There was a gas station up front. >> Yep. H >> I mean when was the last time that we had this situation in the exact same spot? Like less. >> Less than a year ago. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Last year. Yeah. >> About the same time. >> I think one of the only ways you're 151 00:42:30.880 --> 00:42:48.160 going to prove is putting a solid fence like a 6 foot. >> Yeah. >> And I'd been back there uh numerous times since then and it was clean. Like they were definitely maintaining it for a while. So I I don't know what happened uh recently. What's going on there now? >> Who knows? Maybe it's like a wind tunnel 152 00:42:48.160 --> 00:43:04.000 back there. If people get in those dumpsters, they leave them open. >> It could be. You never know. I mean, that's >> cuz I don't think people are actively dumping back there. It just looks to me like like litter and debris from stuff blowing out of those dumpsters. >> Yeah. Yeah. You >> know, maybe here and there people are going back there and >> some of the area. >> Yeah, there's some tires and stuff. So, 153 00:43:04.000 --> 00:43:20.800 somebody definitely tires. >> I don't I don't think that Yeah, I wouldn't say that like the stores are actively just pushing it over the edge. Yeah. >> No, I don't think >> I don't think that's the case. their nature or people being littering. >> I would say most of it looks like it was 154 00:43:20.800 --> 00:43:37.280 blown out of a dumpster. I mean, >> can we get him to put locks on the dumpster? >> Somebody was building a new house. >> I don't know about that. >> I mean, having a dumpster if all your stuff's going to come out, >> right? >> Right. A lot of stuff. >> I mean, if we just put in there that we 155 00:43:37.280 --> 00:43:52.240 need a mitigation plan of how to prevent it from happening. >> See? Yeah. Maybe this time we just need more than just a plan to clean it up. for you to plan to keep it clean. >> One is one is preventing dumping and two is maintain, you know, taking care of your dumpsters and not letting trash around. 156 00:43:52.240 --> 00:44:07.839 >> Yeah. Having having them clean it every time is going to be >> get a camera. >> That's crazy. And it's also probably hard for them too to do that. It's expensive. >> Sure. >> Clean it out >> cuz they have to keep getting down that steep hill which is crazy. >> It's not safe. >> Yeah. >> We should go behind rockets again. 157 00:44:07.839 --> 00:44:26.960 >> Oh, we should, shouldn't we? Okay. That was a mess. >> Once that brush starts to bloom, you can't get in there. You'll probably say we don't >> like a week until we hear from them. And I >> just wait to >> Well, no. We need to amend the enforcement order to get to the new 158 00:44:26.960 --> 00:44:42.319 owners, though. So, it's all inclusive. >> We need to Well, the property card still says it's this LLC, so it's going to still have to be this LLC cuz that's all we know, >> right? Um, but we yeah, we should amend it to like I 159 00:44:42.319 --> 00:44:57.839 was proposing we amend it to include the additional dumping, but if we're going to go for like we also want a management plan. >> We do. >> Uh, I'll need to add that. We should probably talk about what we're looking for roughly even if it's just vague so I have something to tell them. >> Do you think they'll send a rep one of 160 00:44:57.839 --> 00:45:14.480 our meetings? >> I don't know. >> I don't know. >> You know, you could turn the heat on them if because if the phone numbers change that's kind of suspicious to me. and it's still the LLC. So, either >> Yeah, >> they've shifted management and have a different view or something's happened. 161 00:45:14.480 --> 00:45:30.560 >> Yeah, >> you could always you could always put pressure on the tenants because it shouldn't be too hard to take a walk back there and >> find labels and find out the origin of of the trash, >> right? >> By the shopping carts, by the by the 162 00:45:30.560 --> 00:45:48.319 packaging. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And you can make a reasonable assumption >> the store or someone something. Yeah. Um, yeah. Well, if we want to amend it, we would include some kind of a plan. Like, is 163 00:45:48.319 --> 00:46:03.040 that still what we want to do for in the time being? >> Yeah. >> That's to request a plan from them. >> Like a a management plan. >> Management plan. >> Yeah. >> Um, okay. >> To to and word it to say to prevent and not just to >> Yeah. 164 00:46:03.040 --> 00:46:19.599 >> Yeah. To prevent further dumping. So yeah. Okay. So that could be locked gates or or it could be bump maintenance >> cameras, >> right? >> Fences cameras, left gates, whatever. They >> Yeah. >> Yeah. That's >> if they put a sixoot fence up there, no 165 00:46:19.599 --> 00:46:35.920 one's going to go >> the debris will still fence, but it won't go in the stream though. >> You know, it's like a swampy >> clean up. Anyway, >> something like that. >> That's where all the shopping carts are. throwing somebody 166 00:46:35.920 --> 00:46:50.160 tires. Exactly. >> You probably had to do an end around and then dump. I >> think one's hanging from >> this is clean back there. >> That may But even if there is an encampment back there >> that makes me think >> we we will um just need to set >> some kind of a deadline like these. 167 00:46:50.160 --> 00:47:06.960 That's how these operate is they >> behind the building. There probably is a window. >> Next step you to provide us something to review and approve before you send it to them. >> This is kind of what it is. So, I would just I would just include and to dump. So, I mean, I could add that wording and 168 00:47:06.960 --> 00:47:22.960 then bring it back for the next meeting, but um >> I'm okay with you adding it unless you guys are want to see it again. >> Um >> should we say April 22nd? >> Gives them >> Yeah, it gives it time for that actual 169 00:47:22.960 --> 00:47:40.319 certified male to travel and >> and Yeah. And it gives them time to come up with a plan and Yeah. >> Are we good with that, you think? on that. >> Yeah, we could just um move to amend the enforcement order to include um 170 00:47:40.319 --> 00:47:59.280 >> the additional information >> and gave it a deadline of April 22nd. >> Not me. I can't see. >> I don't need to see anything. >> Huh? >> You don't need to see anything. >> We can make this motion, please. >> Jason, do we need a motion? We do need a 171 00:47:59.280 --> 00:48:16.240 motion to amend the order to include a management plan and the bank and bank and a deadline of April 22nd. >> I make a motion to amend management plan and >> the enforcement order. Yeah. >> Sorry. >> Yeah. 172 00:48:16.240 --> 00:48:31.280 >> The enforcement order of a management plan and what else? >> I think you need to read the the enforcement order number. >> Entertainable. >> You can just say to amend the enforcement order with the changes noted. Can I >> that that can make it easier? >> Okay. I make a motion to amend the 173 00:48:31.280 --> 00:48:57.040 enforcement order 2025-05 with changes noted. >> Second. >> All those in favor? >> I staff report. >> All right. You're up. 174 00:48:57.040 --> 00:49:13.599 planning and community development department staff report. >> Uh all there really is uh some of you already aware uh when Tony I went out to uh Nelson Street on LA last Thursday, we saw some individuals across the way on Orange 175 00:49:13.599 --> 00:49:30.079 Street uh just outside with a table saw. It just looked like they were just replacing boards on their porch. So nothing relevant. Um, and then Monday morning, um, I got pinged on, uh, something called open gov, which is where like everything gets submitted online now. And I have it set up so if a building permit comes in and it's within 176 00:49:30.079 --> 00:49:45.680 a specific distance of a a resource area, um, it pings conservation so I can review it. And, um, they have started work on an addition pretty close to the wetland. Um, and they've now stopped both the building commissioner, like this has been without permits from 177 00:49:45.680 --> 00:50:01.920 either either department. So, like the building commissioner stopped it and we both talked to the uh person doing the work. Um, but Liz, you said you wanted to issue a cease and desist to be thorough. Um, considering the confusion last time. Um, so I just have that for you. >> Okay. Yeah, I can sign. 178 00:50:01.920 --> 00:50:17.680 >> Yeah. Um, so you literally just need to sign on the bottom. >> Thank you. Just so we have it in writing that we also were >> Very good, Liz. Very good. Oh, >> where was that? So, it's Orange Street. 179 00:50:17.680 --> 00:50:33.040 It literally is the backyard behind the Nelson Street property we just heard at the last meeting. Yeah. >> Yeah. A lot of strange things. >> Right across the little uh wetland area back there. >> Yeah. >> Live down there. Yeah. >> Um >> Oh my god. >> Off Fuels is where 180 00:50:33.040 --> 00:50:49.599 >> Fuels on North Main. You know where Jiffy Lube is? >> Yes. >> All right. So, you're coming from here. Jify Loop's on your right. Take the next left. >> Okay. >> And then it goes down and it S turns. >> Yep. And then once you get past the S turns, orange shoots on the right, right? Yo's on the right. 181 00:50:49.599 --> 00:51:05.839 >> And they're like horseshoeed into uh wetland. Like it's a pretty wet area. So um they'll defin like I told them they're probably, you know, they're going to need a notice of intent um for the addition to the house. It it goes towards the Nelson Street property. It's off the back, 182 00:51:05.839 --> 00:51:21.760 >> right? It backs right straight up to the Nelson Wellin, >> right? >> Which and it may even be close to the Posic. I don't know where the >> it is closer >> consistently. >> Cool. I will entertain a motion to adjourn at 6:51 p.m. >> Second. 183 00:51:21.760 --> 00:51:37.280 >> All those in favor? >> I flies. >> Ajourned. >> Wait, wait, wait, wait. You >> made the motion the motion? Yeah, >> I second it. Second, but there was no motion made. >> Can I do that? >> So moved and then second. So we need 184 00:51:37.280 --> 00:51:46.240 somebody to move. You said >> so moved. >> Second. Okay. See, take that. Don't do that.