does say it. We are recording. If anyone else here is recording, please let me know. No one else is. No. Um, thank you. Reminder, the reminder publications just walked in. Hi. Um, so Jim is running a
little late and he asked me to step in and he should be arriving shortly hopefully. So, at this point, what I'd like to do is uh open our meeting and conduct roll call of financial oversight committee.
And we'll start to my right. Uh Rich Firo, Kathy Hill, town council. Don Starks, Anna Jones, town council. Connor O'Shea, town council. Exeicio. Thank you. And we also have Kim Collins,
finance director. And um you know you know that other guy over there Christensson our manager over there and we also have um oh no actually I'm going to turn it over to Connor. Great. Thank you. And then I'll call the special town
council meeting to order as well. Then we have in attendance Marilyn Richards in addition to Kathy, myself and Anna. Saw Ralph coming in. He's on his way. Perfect. There he is. Okay. So, um there
are meeting minutes that have been submitted to Jim. We don't know if Jim has them or not. Once he comes, we can find out. And uh once everyone's had a chance to get them, it may be this meeting, it may be
next week, or Jim may have to approve out of necessity. Um, we'll deal with that as it comes. Um, last week we had the school department superintendent and business
manager come and speak to us about the school budget and we had a list of questions and we had a really well-rounded and comprehensive discussion. So this week we are
um here to have some discussion about what we saw, what we thought and lead down the path of running taking a vote on the school budget. So at this point um I will continue in Jim's
tradition of being pretty much wide open unless things get speaking over one another. um on any discussion thoughts they had regarding our discussion.
Well, I felt like they they did um comply with the town manager's request uh for their budget uh amount. I think they clearly took that to heart and did it. I would just say I think they did a
great job explaining everything and providing a lot of detail, especially a lot of the confusion around different accounts and things having similar names but actually being different. So that was really helpful. Ah Jim, perfect timing.
just opened up discussion on the school budget and people's comments and we tabled for now the draft meeting um minutes because we weren't sure if
that got through to you or not. Uh I didn't see it's okay. So, I'm handing the meeting over to you as you sit down. How are you? Good. How are you?
It's in my outbox. Are you good? Discussion of the school school budget discussion comments. Sorry you weren't able to be there. That That's okay. I'm certain everyone
else was able to do a wonderful job in Well, we had our pre-recorded questions. So, and I believe you saw the answers. Yeah. With us. So, anybody want to start off? Any uh initial comments or Rich? Uh
I already pretty much expressed that I I felt the school uh department did admirable position in uh complying with the town manager's request for budget. Yeah. Uh Kathy, um well, I would agree with both Rich and Connor. uh on you
know their presentation how transparent it was uh how complex it is you know they have to um I I'll borrow Don's word again how different uh expenses become
cross-pollinated with different sources it's very complex um as this as similar to the situation we're in with we want to make sure there's enough room. Uh we don't want to
uh tax to the levy limit. they're in a a position as it relates to school choice monies and how much you can use, you know, pay toward reducing expenses and and Pam made a a good point about that
when um the the point was made about if the chapter 70 funds should increase uh regardless and it were to flow through the schools um she would prefer to use whatever that
amount extra amount is and you know sort of escrow it as an additional cushion. So, I mean, that's something to think about, but that remains to be seen because there's still a couple of iterations of
that budget before um the final cherry sheets are out. But, um clearly they're they're up against the wall as well. and um there's no reason to think their
expenses will drop in any manner um when we're back in this situation next year. So, um, it's it's concerning that we could be in the same situation with them again that, you know, they
have to shave positions or redeploy how they deliver the product because of inability to continue to fund at the level that would keep them
whole. Does that make sense? Did you already have other people? I just I opened up so Rich and Connor has spoke both of them. Your thoughts?
I just there's so much in that budget and they have so much going on. I just think they did. You can tell they put a lot of time and effort um into meeting the needs this year and they're always
so willing to explain and be helpful for us to understand it. I think they did a really good job. And Connor, you already made your comments. Yeah, it was similar remarks that, you know, they did a good job explaining and it was very detailed.
I've got a couple things. Yeah, go ahead. Yes, absolutely. I really like what Kathy said and how she expressed it. Um, I couldn't have said it better and I couldn't even remember to write it. And it'll come to me. Yeah. And
discussion is recorded. We are recorded. I think uh what struck all of us it sounds like is extreme complexity. Um, as I said last week, I have real concerns about how the state is handling
things. It does not sound like there's a game plan. And as we know, there are many iterations of the budget coming. And it does look like at least for next year's fiscal budget as
well, uh, we may well be in the same position as we look around. Other towns are in same position or worse. And I would advocate that we continue to maintain our policy of being as fiscally
prudent as we can. Many times in the past when there have been uncertainties with budgets or the economy, and I think we've got both of these playing in right now, we have been prudent and it has served us
well. It's kind of nice when you sit and you say like we did last year. I remember I kept saying we're sitting in the cat bird seat because we were really well positioned and I think that played
somewhat to this year. uh difficult decisions have had to be made with personnel and I encourage the school committee as well as the school department to look for other cuts other than personnel. Those are always the
last you want to do. Um and I'm glad to hear they are looking down for uh the following fiscal year because we need some long-term planning here. And I was very well pleased that they met the town
count the town manager's um goal of 2 and a half%. I think we need to have some equity and balance. we are having uh the full brunt of the school will be hitting in our August tax
bill. And I think with that in mind um we should maintain uh some parody between the school and the town until we figure out what's going on statewide and locally.
Uh Ralph, did you want You know, I always have something to say. Um I I think you guys have said it very well. The school budget is um very in-depth. There's a lot going on with it. Um that's why the
school committee spends so much time going over it. Um that's why they're elected. Um, I look at the town council and the town side of this as it's up to us to allocate x number of dollars to them and
it's up to them to prudently uh allocate it and spend it as need be to make sure as many services are done that can possibly be. And um I it was very nice to see um that 2 and a half% being held
to. Um, I know it's difficult. I know it's difficult all around. Um, but I just think going forwards we're probably going to be in this boat for a little bit unless um unless something drastic changes, especially with the special ed
and all. Um, the cost just keeps going up and uh there's only so much money to go around. So, um, but it was nice uh reviewing and actually hearing explanations and reading them. um it does help give you a view of it of what
they have to go through to get to that. So I do appreciate it. Uh Marilyn, you know, having been involved in town government for a few years, I you know, I've seen how we worked with the school committee and it
hasn't always been like it was at our last meeting. Um, I just felt that everyone recognizes that we are struggling with how to meet, you know, the financial needs of of our schools as well as our departments. And um, I was
just so pleased with how um, open and honest they were with everything that they were asked to comment on. And I really hope that at some point we can um, replace some of those positions that have been caught. But at this point, you
know, who knows? But, um, I really appreciate how it went because it hasn't always been that way. And I like what everyone else said. I agree with all of you. Um, it's been tough. And Tom and Cam, I I actually wasn't going to ask because I figured you you
guys did the most and kind of help, you know, work with them to build it. But if you have any final comments on the discussion, certainly. Yeah. I mean, I don't have much to add. I mean, again, everybody's sort of nailed it. I mean, it's it's very very uh difficult. There
are a million moving parts. Um, and again, uh, Pam and, uh, Gordon have been fantastic the last two years with us and sharing information and and trying to put the town budget together, right?
It's a it's the town budget and that's one of the departments and one of the components. And so um we have some work to do. Uh we we have offered sort of to to be on board with this plan moving
forward, this FY27 and beyond uh to try to make sure we can collaborate this number moving forward for the whole community. So, um, again, uh, it's a lot and and I appreciate that they were able
to to to come come down to where we needed to be to to make sure we didn't get to that that limit. So, okay. Yeah. And my my only comments is again I agree with everyone else and certainly appreciated the uh uh the thorough discussion and explanation that we had
last week and I want to compliment uh the town manager, the finance director because really and and and school administration and and the school committee because really all that hard work was done getting to that 2 and a
half% number and uh and my hat off to all of you for, you know, working together to get to get there because it wasn't without some pain and a lot of of course. Um, with that said, uh, I would
entertain a motion if uh, one is comfortable to recommend to the town council that uh, that portion of the town manager's budget uh, be approved. I I move that the we accept the um school
budget as presented. Okay. Uh is there a second? Second. Uh any other comments, questions? Yes, Rich. Could we uh add an amendment that um as the superintendent and assistant business referenced that if there is an
increase in aid that the town send it directly to the schools. So, here's what I was thinking about that is that we vote about the budget, then we we do that separately, maybe as just a consensus uh like suggestion,
recommendation to the town council because there's really no actionable thing for that until that happens and it would be kind of beyond the budget would happen after the budget is approved. At least that's what I was thinking. Okay, that makes sense.
Okay. So, without that amendment, um it would be as as mo moved by Dawn. Any other questions or comments? If not, uh all in favor? I guess it's a Is it a roll call? Do we have anybody on? No. No. No. Uh all in favor, please say I.
I. I. Any opposed? Okay. Uh motion carries. And back to Rich's uh uh comment. Um there was that question about what happens if if the additional monies uh are added to to the chapter 70 and uh I
know from my standpoint. Um, I would look favorably on that if that were to occur and happen, although it would happen after we would also have had to approve the budget, the the city, the town council. But if that were to
approve be approved, certainly from my standpoint, it I I would be um it would be fine from my standpoint that the town council would could earmark that for
additional monies to the school. Other people, how do you feel? I know I know how Rich feels. So Kathy, um it's it would be nice to see an increase. Uh I'm going to assume that
the if there is an increase it's not going to be monumental because it looks as though when you look at trends or the last uh the the first iteration of preliminary cherry sheet um they move money from one column like they decrease
it like by 100,000 and then in another line they bump it up 200,000 and so you're only netting at the bottom. um a little bit. So, um every dollar counts, but um I I I would be in favor of um
suggesting that when the time comes. I think it would be incumbent upon the town council to make that final decision. Yes. And see where the numbers come in. Um I'm neutral on this. Um I feel that if
it is not that much it would be town bottom line is I think it's town council because then they'll have a clearer picture of where we sit and more concrete um findings especially with how many positions are
actually lost or perhaps we can see save some and I'm sure that school committee and um the administ ministration are looking at ways to play with things to make it the least impactful. So, um I'm kind of punting.
you're pointing in terms of if the 185 or some number was added to the chapter 70 uh not necessarily you wouldn't necessarily s be suggesting to the town council that
that money be added back to the school committee or the education budget. Correct. just I would like them to look at the entire budget town budget at the entire town budget and if they feel that that's where it goes that's great but they they have
the bird's eye view there being able to see if I could tag onto that um it it would also I'd want to wait on that decision now uh until after June 30th when Kim has a chance to look at how
each of the departments fell with their money. You know, did did somebody have 15,000 extra? Is another line item 20,000 short? You you know what I'm talking about? How what do you call reconciling to see you know if and
that money would then go to uh free cash, right? Yes. To the potential free cash in October. Yes. Okay. Through the chair. Um, obviously I wasn't here at the last meeting. Yeah. Um, but my
understanding was the schools got a 2 and a half% uh increase in their budget and that's what we're voting on. Yes. Um, the chapter 70 is actually a reimbursement to the town to help afford schools. So, that money should go to the
town. And considering our town manager's already reduced our uh levy by roughly 300,000 more than what he wanted to in order to fund everything. It doesn't at least to me it doesn't seem to make sense to then take whatever additional
chapter 70 and increase the school budget above. So I don't think this would be any this would Yes. I mean, understand because it the budget itself would be what's being presented by the town
manager. So, this would be more a suggestion after the fact if that chapter 70 were increased. Uh yeah, it would be my suggestion that to make no suggestion to make no suggestion because we don't know and this is hypothetical.
Yeah. Um, and so my question is going to be to Kim. Um, the chapter 70, the final number or whatever, that's that's usually what September or something when they finally decide. It usually comes pretty close to like a right after
you've approved the budget, I would say. Um, I don't think it's as far as September. I don't think it's that far. So if we get reimbursed at that, that goes into typically the general fund and then the town manager looking to distribute
how you saw fit. But I it's not like the money comes in and and we decide where we're going to put it. When you consider their budget is well above, you know, this the 17,000 I think that we would get I mean 17 million that we would get
from chapter 70. So whether we get an additional 70 grand or we get an additional 170 grand, we're already really giving that to the schools at this point. Um, and I think to Ralph's point, we cut into the levy by 331,000
in order to get to this budget that's being presented to you. So technically, if more money was offered through chapter 70, it would just kind of reduce that amount that we dug into to the levy. or if you decided to add it to the school's budget, that means we still use
$331,000 in our levy. It's just we got this little extra amount that we can now add to their budget, right? And you know, I think the bigger concern is you can add money to the school budget, but they're already subsidizing quite a bit of their budget with school choice funds
or through transportation revolving funds. and you know, so you can add more money to the budget, you know, to support salaries, but you're still digging into those other funds to support supplies and and different things within their budget. So, they're still technically in a
deficit. So, it's, you know, and I think that was to Pam's point that if they did get any extra money, it would really just be supporting the supplies budget as opposed to pulling it from revolving funds so that they can keep those reserves. I think that was kind of the point that
she was making there. Well, I think it's important to understand that there was a major impact with with this budget. I asked Mr. Christensen, what's the impact on the town side? He said minimal. I asked that question to superintendent and he said it was a major impact. 23 people walked
out the door. And I I can't see why if chapter 70 money is increased, why it wouldn't go to the schools. That is what chapter 70 is. Well, like Ralph, it it offsets what we pay for the school. So, if the chapter 70 number goes up, then
our portion just goes down and it's still well above what we're supposed to pay for schooling. Right. Right. So, and we dug into that levy, right? So if there's any alteration to that state aid number, I
want to replace the levy first. And the impact of the 2 and a half% was far greater than the 2.21% on all the other town departments. You know what I mean? So the impact was because we could absorb 2.2% on this
side and the school couldn't live with a 2 and a half% increase to their budget. You know what I mean? I can follow it. And the one last thing I'd like to add is if the school runs into an issue like they did a few years ago and they ran
short, they came to the council, they asked for a transfer from free cash, we analyzed it, and we gave it to them. And I I think that's that's the proper way for it to work. Um that way they're you know what their budget is, it's there.
if if there's a shortfall for some reason, they come in, they ask, they explain it. Um, if we have the money in free cash, we take care of it. And I think that maybe is what Kathy was driving at is we keep
budgeting this dollar amount and taxing the community for 12 months and then we turn back all this money. We gota we have to stop taxing everybody for the whole year just to turn back money and we'd rather be closer to the line so
that if we need to supplement someone's budget it's with free cash and we haven't taxed everybody for the whole year. Do you know what I mean? Y kind of like overwithholding and getting a refund. Your tax is withholding too much. Uh, Anna,
um, I think we should definitely hold off. Um, first of all, we don't know if this money is coming or not. And second of all, we don't know when and what shape will be when we get it. So, I don't think we should guarantee it to
the school or suggest to send it to the school by the time. Uh, reasonable reasonable discussion. I think partly my thought process was they're losing 19 positions. The town side is not losing any.
Uh we're okay with where we are at this point. The 185 would just be something supplemental to it. Um, and it sounded like uh they're they're dipping into a bunch of their reserves to get by this year. Uh,
which they may be able to use to help get by next year if they if they got it. But it isn't something that needs to be determined at this point because it's not it hasn't been, you know, it hasn't been it's it's a slippery slope because
using those reserves to fund the operating budget just creates a hole that we have to fill next year. Yeah. This is why they were at the $3 million ass this year because they had to supplement the special ed budget this year and then add to whatever that increase was for FY26. So it's a very
slippery slope. So, I don't think I hear any kind of motion coming from the from any committee member regarding that um potential 185 add to the chapter 70.
Does anyone have a motion they wanted to make? Well, I'm more than happy to make the motion. I I can sense the uh feeling in the room. I guess I'll make the motion that if we do receive any additional funds through chapter 70 that the town council
uh review it and if possible pass it on to the schools here a second. I'll I'll make a second just for discussion. That was a nice soft way of putting it. Uh any other discussion beyond what we
had? All right. Hearing none. All in favor? I opposed. Oh, no. All right. And I I'm now I'm on the fence. So you got one abstain, one
four, and three opposed. So motion does not carry. Okay. I think the sentiment is clear. Correct. But it's a little bit putting the cart before the horse. All right. And Anna, my humble apologies.
You sent it to me. No need to apologize. And uh should have got it too soon. I kept looking for it and I I must have forgotten to keep looking for it. I can't Now I can't seem to I can't seem to pull it up. I was thinking maybe I could have it
printed off or something. I don't think anybody's here, right? Uh, I could do it minutes. I could do it. Yeah, potentially maybe. I mean, I I'm done the director right now.
Could you could um approve out of necessity? Just do it then. It's up to you. Yeah. Uh well, other than the school department discussion, the education budget, yeah, there wasn't much, right? Yeah. Um
how do people feel about that? I I don't see a real need to rush it because we we had all the answers in writing from the school department already. They they um reinforced what they had written. I think we can wait to look at the minutes later. I think 90% of it was a recap of
their then two motions, right? Yeah. All right. Then we'll defer the we'll defer the review of the minutes. My apologies. No, no, no, no. Please don't apologize. So, uh, moving on, we'll just go to the, uh, revolving funds.
What the heck is that in? Tell me where that is. I think it's in this. Uh well I I have 34 of 43 and then I have Council on Aging 34 or 43 35 or 43.
I don't know. I don't look at pages. Well, no, that's an enterprise. I I I had to pull them from kind of page 34, 35, and 36. from the first packet for the for the first. And then there was the
the uh the ambulance fund. Oh, the ambulance. 2805. So the first one was uh these 34 or 43 which are solid waste and I don't even know whether are these do these actually considered budgets for us
to review and make recommendations on. Yeah. So they have to be the amounts have to be voted on the everything that you see in the charts are actually in the bylaw. Um there's certain revenue sources that are put into these renewable funds. they're listed there
and then there's certain expenses that they can pay and then every year they just set a limit a spending limit which is what can be reserved in the account at the end of the year to be used for the following year. So they just set um for 2805 they set the spending limit at
155434 and then for 289 which is council on aging they set it at 26620. Who is they Kim? Uh, solid waste is the health department and Council on Aging, that's their revolving fund, 2809. And is is it
that that the uh town council um authorizes? Yep. That's the only thing they vote on is the dollar amount through the chair. Yes. A quick question, Kim. Um on the health department, I know mattresses is part of
their revenue. Yes. We increase um the revenues from the mattress. Is that going to affect this? Because it says estimated revenue is 150,000. If all of a sudden the mattress fees are $75 a piece instead of 30 or
whatever, they go up, which would probably be quite a bit. So you only set the spending limits, not the revenue amounts. But if more money rolls into that account, they still have a limit at the end of the year that they can keep. So anything above that 155434 rolls into
the general fund on June 30th. Okay. And and yes, the the new rates were were used to come up with the new numbers for FI26. So does this mean that up to 155 can be
kept in the revolving account? Yeah. So basically they set their spending limit at what can be held in it for the following year and then that's what's available to them the following year. It's amazing how specific the numbers are. Well, they do it based on a budget.
So, all right. And then council on aging works the same way. Yes. Questions on either one? Mhm. I move to um support the FY2026 spending limits
and revolving funds of the solid schedule and Council on Aging. Do I hear a second? Second. Uh all in favor, please say I. I. Any Sorry, I'm multitasking. Any oppose,
please say nay. Uh, okay. Motion carries. Uh, solid waste revolving. Didn't you put them in one? I put them both in solid. Oh. Oh, okay. Sorry. I'm on the I had the detail on
it. Recreation. All right. Move to recreation because informationational that does require a vote. All right. Okay. What's our next one then?
Ambulance regation. No, it doesn't. Yeah. Sometimes I can't hear the the section of the general law for well the other two is pre and a half or
whatever that requires the the revolving for wreck in the D does not it's mostly there just so everybody knows what like going on the ambulance uh revolving needs yes Yep.
Now, this one had actually uh revenue and expenses. This is the one where the the issue was the receipts reserved for appropriation so that the balance budget can't be more than the balance at the time of the vote. I
say that right in the right order. Yep. which is even more difficult to plan obviously but uh we we've we've sort of put some pins in some things that as we collect the revenue
I want to reference the last time we discussed this you have to set them out like three months in advance or something when when they vote on this budget when the council votes on this budget the budget amount can't be more than what we have for a
balance in the account at the time. At the time, so we still have another well June of revenue. Exactly. Okay. But we can't budget for that revenue because that's how the law works. And again, we'll it sparked some conversation on
whether or not we want this account to operate under this law. Um, but that's how it was started and that's how it's been operating. So we'll have further conversations and possibly may this may be a different account next year. What kind of alternative?
Uh well could be in the could be in the general fund. Don't say that it could be an enterprise. I mean the revenue would flow to the general fund and the expenses would flow to the general fund and then you but you wouldn't be you could set a budget for it as opposed to having to rely on the money that's sitting in the fund at the
time. It could be in an enterprise fund. It you know could be in a receipts reserve. Those are kind of the options that we have. How are things going? Yeah. Because certainly doesn't work like the the other two revolving funds that we just reviewed. No, they're under different laws.
So, the way we're doing it right now is kind of a handicap. Yeah. In in ways. And I think a lot of that has to do with uh I think originally we expected the growth of the
balance of this account to be there already so to speak where we wouldn't have to work. We could budget for whatever we needed to because the balance in the account would have some retained earnings at this point. It just hasn't. Um, and talking about uh Medicare and Medicaid and these kind of
things where 30% of our trips are paying for the whole year's budget. Uh, Kim had put some information together with Dawn, right? Yep. About our collections and I think we we build out $5.7 million up to
this point and we were allowed to collect 1.8 million. So the way the budget is built it the budget looks like an enterprise fund budget as opposed to a right the the the problem just becomes
our revenue basis never gets filled by can I say the rider I shouldn't say that the the the the recipient of the ride if they're on Medicare doesn't pay our revenue. venue
share. So, like I said, we build out almost $6 million and we're sitting at 1.8. That's this is just how the the law is. This is what like like like the state trying to keep up with the school stuff. They're not keeping up with
Medicaid either. So sounded originally to be like a really great thing is now turning into well it's it's just we're not get I think it was it's still working like we're at least we're breaking breaking even but I
think uh we we we do I don't want to say we're going to look we're going to look into it to see if there's something better here. Uh again, until there's a another drastic change somewhere else, I don't know how much more we can do even with an enterprise fund uh with aside
from just jacking the rates to the people with the private insurance companies and then when do those companies say, "Nope, you can only charge us this much for a ride and then we're missing all all the revenue." So, uh it's a difficult equation like most
uh but we'll continue to look into it. questions on the ambulance revolving fund. I think we have a number of questions but I don't know that right um I know how it works now with the you know we
can't you know approving the budget more than what we already had like up to that point but are we able to revise that number up to that point when we get closer to the vote instead of you know numbers that may have been put
together months or weeks ago I don't know that it's going to help potentially I suppose you could. I mean, we were we were sort of just talking about this too with all the, you know, the hearing opening in the first meeting and then getting all the warrant and and all the
language. I said warrant, all the motions language in and having all this information so that when you show up, when you have to read whatever it is, 20 motions, we have that all set. And if we can certainly change those numbers right up to that point, but I think we're sort
of projecting it already and and we have the uh the capital account that we we had those two things that should be in this fund and they're not. And yeah, that's true. Um that would be where that movement would be. When we talked about
the capital projects budget, we had in our recommendation, we had left the wiggle room of some movement between the ambulance fund and the the general fund. Yes. which is what what we requested and what
we're hoping as we're projecting this revenue so that on May 27th available there could right on top of what we've budgeted for expenses so that we can put that bond payment into the budget. So I
think we'll be watching it right up to the day if that's your question. Yeah. And then if we can switch, you know, where that funding is coming from for one or both of those capital projects, we will. I mean, I think both is a pipe dream probably, but uh maybe the smaller
payment we can get into the budget. We'll keep an eye on it. This is how and again this is what the ambulance this is what the fire department has to do and they've done it for three years now from March to June is watch their revenue and
expenses getting to that the to that vote. Um which again might be a little helpful if we if if it was a different type of account. But again those more more analysis then just this conversation we're having has to go into
that. Um, not that it'll change anything. I'm just curious, do we know the lag time between submission of claims and how long it takes? Does it take a long time for the actual revenue, even if it's only 30% to get back here?
It's not bad. I think we're we're our collection is already up around 90%. Right, for that Medicare is pretty instant. Like those payments come in pretty instantly. The, you know, the insurance companies, that's not really the issue. It's more the patients
responsibility that you know they spend more time collecting, but the majority of the payments come in pretty quickly. Um, how do people feel about the ambulance fund? I mean, I'm not sure I'm that knowledgeable enough about it. I I
mean, I'm I feel like I'm more accepting of the the budget as opposed to like approving, you know, re Um, I mean, I have no objection to it. Um, I it it sounds like it's kind of in
the state of review and flux and, you know, there's a couple moving parts attached to it. Yeah, we we do realize a profit usually, don't we? Yeah. I mean, yeah, we haven't we haven't. Last year, I think uh we
profited what? 130. Yeah. The year before was a loss. the year before was a loss and then 23 was an actual profit of almost a half a half a million. So it's not always like this and in those years like yeah you you don't have to
worry about this conversation we're having but again and I joke about this with our new chief it's kind of hard to root for revenue in this particular department. Absolutely. Yeah. Uh do I hear any kind of motion
regarding the ambulance fund? So before a motion, I'm just curious under expenses, the personnel services are the PMTs and stuff like that. Correct. That's personnel services is
sal is the salary line item. Yep. I mean that's the one that's increased to look from like 23 to 26 at a,84,000 now to 1,69,000. Yep. So, it looks like the revenue and
all has stayed flat and our costs have jumped $600,000 in salaries. Correct. Um, we keep going up at that rate and we're not increasing our rates
at the same amount in two more years, we're going to be losing money each year on this, right? And so obviously all part of the equation slashcon conversation but that was uh we were still growing the department
uh and the we were just looking at this we have negotiations with this unit right now uh there is a for paramedics there's a jump from year one to year two to four uh in which their salary is has
a big increase and and most of our most of our paramedic staff is in that under five years. And so that that's that realization of the the jump in in salary from this. And in actuality,
uh the the breakdown, right? Like our fire so our fire station right now is like 7525. We haven't even really moved enough money to the ambulance fund because of the revenue that we should the the we're like half and half
with the budgets. They're almost exactly the same with the the general fund budget for the fire department and the general fund it has like half the employees over here uh the field employees uh firefighter paramedics. the way the numbers work and what their
workload is, threearters of those that salary number should be in the ambulance fund. We just can't get them there because we don't have the revenue. So, so with that, I mean, when you start and look at the, you know, the revenue
and the average uh cost, so they've got the average bundled comstar top 50 um just for a BLS is 1769 and that's the average. and we're proposing 1403 which is
$366 less per trip. Wouldn't it make more sense to who's the rate even $50 more? So ComStar Yeah. So good question and I'm actually glad you brought this up because I asked the same question. ComstStar is our billing
company, which includes all the private ambulance services who charge way more than everybody else that operates ambulance in a community. So, we're actually above average in terms of municipal ambulance. That that average bundled
comstar top 50 is pulling all the national companies that are charging way too much for an ambulance rise. Truthfully, that shouldn't even be in there then. It probably shouldn't. Yeah, this is just downloaded from Comstar. So, this is what
this is what is available to us in terms of um comparisons. In order to get municipal ones, we'd have to kind of reach out to other municipalities and pull those amounts. Um, this was put together as a way to show a 4% increase in the rates and comm
this is what comstra gives us as comparables and it also gives us the Medicare fee schedule which is why which is really why we wanted it. It would be nice to at least be able to go forwards into next budget year to see what the comparables are. Yeah, we could
do municipal ones communities. And I'm pretty sure Chris brought them in to the to to our budget meeting. Well, Chris and Paul, I guess Paul would have been here still. Uh, so we saw all that and that's why we didn't go up to 17. That makes more sense. We saw, right? Yeah.
Sorry about that. The average is 17 14 and we're going to make 54,000. Yeah, that makes sense. But no, you're right. Makes a lot more sense. Thank you. Good question. So, so Tom, we
actually we actually carrying costs of running our own ambulance uh system in the fire department costs because we we don't have the we can't generate the revenue in the ambulance fund. Now, the reason we went into the ambulance fund
was because we were paying outside services to have ambulance services accessible to our residents here in East Long Meadow before. Correct. So, and so this was offsetting that cost that we
were paying Yep. to do that. And I think the reason that the ambulance fund was created to just keep it out of that general fund number as we grew. And so again, we're still grow it's still growing, right? I mean, even most of our staff that's seems like have been here
forever, most of them are in the three to five year window, it's like still like kind of growing. So I think the thought was there at the beginning, which was good, and now we need to sort of look at what's actually happening now
here in year five, six, whatever, wherever we're in. And you know when when you talk to uh Carrie the the administrative assistant threequarters of her time is on ambulance her whole salary is on the fire department side. Same with the same
with the That's why I guess at this point in time in the growth of the, you know, the the years that we've had it now, I guess it didn't dawn on me that there's still so much being paid for in the general fund for ambulance because
we're still separating it out and we've run into a little bit of a a hiccup here with the revenue on the ambulance side. And I think if you looked at the first couple years, it looked like we would be at a quarter of the fire department and in the in the fire side in the general
fund and and we just have we're still half and half. We just we can't we can't seem to budge from this half and half. So we're we're we're putting our heads together and I think there's a lot of this I guess we always have to constantly make sure that it's still making sense for the town that Yep. you
know, that we do it internally versus uh Yeah. Well, again, um like a lot of our stuff, it it we're providing a a better service for our community members at a cheaper rate than they're like the average rate for a private is like Ralph
just pointed out, $400 more at minimum. And so the fact that we're doing it here and we're responding quicker and because of again our demographics aren't paying us the revenue we want, but we have a lot of people that need that quick ambulance and it's nice to have it right
down the road. Can I can I add an fact to that? Having worked emergency department statement, you see a lot of the same people and it's kind of nice to see the same um paramedics, EMTs bringing the people into the emergency room. There's a nice connection there
between that person who obviously is sick and seeing the same people coming in with the ambulance. It's a great intangible effect and does provide a great service to the town. Yep. And unfortunately, as I said, working there, I see the same people many times. Yep.
And we and again, we have an outstanding staff that that does it as bad as good as anyone. So, it's one of those, again, only 50 bucks for a dump sticker, but it should be 300, but we're going to keep it at 50 because it's nice to drive down
the street and dump something that you'd have to pay who knows what if you brought it somewhere else. So, we're we're still providing a service to the public and sometimes the numbers don't work perfect, but it's still good for the town. Do I hear a motion to recommend approval
of the town manager's ambulance revolving fund? So move. Second. Uh any other discussion? Uh all in favor say I. I. Any opposed? Carries. Good discussion.
Thank you. Thanks for bringing up that. Uh next uh we move to the reserve policy. moving on our agendas, kicking it down the road, actually, but it's not a camp. It's not a camp. I did not
say 28. Did you say 28? Is it 28? Yes, page 28. And uh Kim had been kind enough to send us uh uh the financial policies, financial reserves
policy as well as uh some discussion from DLS. So the free cash policy is to try to try to be at 8%. Free cash says at least 5%. at least 5% and we are at
8%. Wonderful. The range is is there a range that you try to get to? I mean typically the ranges are within 3% so it's probably like five to eight. Five to eight. Yeah. So we're on the upper end.
We when we did all the transfers to stabilization and stabilization oped when we did all those transfers we kind of aimed for 8% just to keep reserves at a point where we're earning enough interest to let roll into the general fund to create
more free cash on a regular basis and to have cash flow um as we're paying for regular projects within the capital fund and stuff like that. Kim, as I reviewed this, I didn't understand the category that said total votes. I'm sorry. It
says total votes. I understand that underneath each of the uh categories, it's the votes the town council took in terms of money votes that we took. Yeah. Give a number 10 vote. It just it should have show the dollar
sign. Where's that? Was he looking at 283 number? Oh, yeah. I was just looking at the policy. I wasn't looking. So, those are all the votes that we've taken for free cash
was 5,276,24.75. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. The dollar sign threw me off. That's why the Oh. And then uh your we'll stick with the we'll stick with
the way it's presented here on page 28. So the enterprise funds I think when we were talking about enterprise funds you had indicated your target is 20%. Yep. And then in storm water, is it also 20%
or are are you is that target something higher? Um the 20% is sort of a blanket number. And I think uh storm water is another one of those accounts that's sort of on the rise. It's only been around for four handful of years, four or five years. So uh it's hard to we
could adjust it. Yeah. But again, we're we're we're looking at if 20% of that budget is not a very large sum of money. Uh so we're trying to once that count the count the account is never going to get to where water and sewer are because
they're there's not really a revenue usage kind of thing. Uh I think maybe if we could call it out as something different, maybe 50%. Um, you know, fact is if anything happens in the storm water related like
a culvert or something like that, we're going to stabilization. We're not we're not going to do this. Same with a large water break, something like that. $900,000 isn't going to fix anything. We're going to need more money than that. So, um 20% is sort of uh a guideline, right?
That's a minimum. That's a minimum number, I guess, is what we're Okay. Does he think we're at 70? Yeah. LCAT's even funnier. Yeah. 200 and something%. So, Tom, having said that, if the corporate goes and we're going to go to
stabilization because it will cost 3.5 million or, you know, I'm pulling that number out of the Do we need to really have that much in storm water or does this just that much in the retained earnings?
Yeah. I mean, if we didn't have to go to stabilization, that would be great. Um, if it was a bank collapse or something and it was 110,000, well, we have storm water money that can fix that. Okay. Instead of going to the general fund, we've we've collected monies for storm
water purposes. We might as well use that money to fix storm water stuff. Yeah. Okay. So, it's the percentage and then there's the actual dollar amount, which doesn't always line up, but again, it's just a minimum. Um, and I think
there's going to be a point where this is all we're going to end up at at Stormwater, meaning that it's not going to grow to a water department where it's got a $2 million budget. That doesn't really we've we we did it to satisfy the
requirements of the MS4 permit for for D. Uh we've we've now we now know that one person if we could add a skilled worker with that foreman at some point they have a truck, they have the jet truck, they don't need much else in
terms of a budget. So at some point this stormwater budget will just be stagnant and we're probably getting pretty close to that, you know, barring any major change in what we do operationally at DBW.
So that's actually good news in terms of then we're not constantly reviewing how we collect yes the fees and so the great news is that permit is now expired and D is working on a new one. Uh so we'll see what that
looks like but again this this all started because they threw this half million dollar a year work that we had to perform and we had no funding to do it. So, um, at some point if we don't need it or if the permit is now sort of
that we got everybody where we wanted them now maintain and it costs less than it's been costing, then there's really no reason to keep, you know, in inc incrementally raising this account to a point that doesn't even make sense. Would you then look for this account and
the and the um retained earnings to be able to support replacement of the equipment that you know time and that's what the retained earnings account is is doing for most of these when we have the capital plan the water some of their
projects we're not going to the general fund for that money that that retained earnings is is supporting it's supposed to support itself right so we're we're using that stuff to to buy materials, vehicles and and the salary of the employees under that division
with the LCAT uh reserve. Year what what is that earmarked for? What does that have a Well, it was earmarked uh for um a new studio at some point. Uh and um went to the new high school, correct?
So, it's not earmarked for anything. Uh that's a weird enterprise account. We just get money from Charter based on how many customers we have. So, we're not charging our residents anything. Uh Charter is sort of supporting the ELCAT doing a good job, right?
Um so, right. And that obviously that money is continuing to diminish and at some point we'll will probably go away. Uh so, we'll have to sort of keep an eye on that. uh how fast that sort of waines uh
both with uh you know technology increases uh people unplugging these sorts of things and ELA metal fiber uh I would assume we'll we showed a lot of interest in this project uh by vote uh the
interest has only gone up since I've talked to everybody and so uh as that revenue goes up for us uh charter's revenue is going to go down and so is LCAT So, uh, we're we're still I we'll we'll figure out a way how to roll LCAT.
Uh, it's obviously a great service for the community and we can't lose it. Um, so we'll figure out a way to roll LCAT into the MLP or uh some sort of reorganization of some sort with LCAT and and another department. Say that
again. The whole thing, Jim, no hand roll into what? MLP. The municipal light plant. The municipal light plant which will run fiber. And that's this is where the this is where you might make use of
some of this half a million. Well, if we I'm I'll be honest with you. If we start to see that that's this move is going to happen, we'll probably just fund this account using retained earnings the last year and then move it over. Okay. All right. All
right. Good. Because I mean it it does seem like this would be for for as it is. Yep. Be somewhat excessive and it seems like town could make use of some portion of this. And that was that was um Don Mackey's whole thought was again
256% seems huge except for 235 whatever it is. It's still only a half a million bucks and we know what buildings cost and what a studio might cost and what that equipment is. So that would evaporate in one project. Uh even though the again the like you said the two
235% seems absurd. Uh the dollar amount is not so out of step with what Don had planned for it. And I I think it there really are no percentages in terms of the CPA
balances. It is whatever they grow to. Yes. Yeah. Um I don't think there's we don't have anything in the reserve right for uh No, it's just what it is. Uh it's our it's it's tucked in their little
buckets and and CPC not utilized for projects. The money just grows and grows just Yep. So you need it. Yep. So, we'll have to keep using it for for
projects. And I think that that we still keep that CPC uh section on the capital plan because if if there's something that we can fund with CPC on the capital plan, we we try to throw it in there. Has the state been
fulfilling their share as late? It's it's dwindling, I believe, uh considerably. Actually, it it grew over the last Did it? In fact, when I was chair, they had gotten down to less than 20% that they
were financing and uh it's grown quite a bit. So, Oh, really? The the last couple uh conversations I've had about the community preservation as a whole, like statewide, was that either it had started coming down or it pretty much is something that the state was supposed to
be funding it at 100%. Yeah. Um, oh, I think they only did that the first year or two. So, but when you go from supposedly 100% and getting down to 15 17%. Yeah. Um, now it's 30 or 40% that
they're funding it at, which is seems like a lot more triple through the chair. Yeah. All right. And Ralph, unless it gets out of hand, go right ahead and ask your question. just in case someone else wanted to jump in. I I I want to jump back to the storm
water 41 of 43. So I'm looking at 25 usage charges was 46,713 and then level two for 2026 466713. So that's what
we're charging. That's that's the revenue coming in, but yet you have a $6 increase in the rate. How can you have a $6 increase for 6,000 plus households and the rate
not? We've been working on this diligently since you brought up how you didn't like how we did it. I was I was working on this today and I did speak with Bruce. Um, I think I would like to reserve the opportunity to change this budget a little bit because if you look
at any of the other funds, you can just multiply usage by rate and everything's great. You know what the revenue is going to be and then you know what your expenses are and then you know everything looks great. This has a chart that sometimes multiplies by uh what is
that called? Impervious area. Impervious area and sometimes it's by parcel sometimes. So there's that being said, I mean you pretty much have been billing consistently single family households x amount. Their impervious surface really
doesn't change, right? But on everybody else it does. So when you look at that rate, you're only seeing the single family rate. There's there's a list of rates that are all different that are being filling out to everybody else. I do know. So, what we did um actually
today was go through all those rates and try to increase them by a percentage for everybody as opposed to just adding $6 to everybody. So, my suggestion would be just the opposite. Let's keep our rates the same. Um I don't think the $6 is
going to make that much of a difference. We have a surplus in that count of 70%. Our taxpayers are about to get walloped and Truthfully, I hear more complaints about this storm water fee than I do about
their taxes. Um, sounds ridiculous, but when they get that fee, I get the questions, what on God's earth is this? Because it rains, I get charged, and I just don't want to spend that much
more time on it. The only thing I will say is tomorrow I will go through and look at the revenues that have been collected because in these funds for the storm water, sewer and water, we have to collect what we say we're going to collect and if we don't we end up in a
revenue deficit and then we get a comment every year on our financials. We get a comment every year from DLS like we have to be bring I'd be happy to respond to the comment collecting what we're saying we're going to collect. So, what I'd like to do is just take some time tomorrow, look at our revenue
collections, look at each of these funds, make sure we're on on target because I think if you look at this 468 from last year, based on the way it was calculated, we weren't even collecting that at 47. So, that's kind of why we said, let's increase the rate, but let's
leave the revenue the same. And I'd like to take some time with Bruce's spreadsheet to go through every detailed line of it, recalculate everything by percentage or by fixed rate, whatever looks best. Um, to just to make sure we're meeting our
revenue goals. I would love to stop in and have a discussion with you on it. That' be great. From home tomorrow. Okay. Yeah, I'll work from home tomorrow. Uh the last thing that at least
stabilization fund the target is 8%. Or is that a range to uh stabilization? Ready, Jim? Well, I was looking at the policy and I'm looking at
page 30, but I'm having kind of trouble figuring it out from the table. So it's a minimum of 8%. Minimum 8%. Okay. And is is FY25.2 million.
What are you looking at? I'm looking at page 30 or 14. This the barraph, right? I don't know last one with the dots and the Yeah, that was terrible. That was Yeah. And but there's another one like
page 31 of 43 that has like 5.777 as a target and 6,92 is current balance. So I wasn't quite sure. Okay. So if you're looking at those bar charts
that have the multiple colors on them, yeah, those were certified balances. So as of July 1st 24th, they weren't adjusted for any additional transfers that were made into those funds. So it was just taking a look at balances over time as they're certified on July 1st of
24. So you know, if you're looking at the chart, I mean July 1st of 24. So what's the FY 20? This is a picture of this. No, I know I but I didn't see the stabilization. Then the votes I missed
the stabilization on this one. So this basically it's on the It's on the bottom, Jim. It's right there. So stabilization we put right at Oh, 8%. All right. See, I was looking for a nice
little box. I think you've pointed this out to me two other times. So pretty decent shape. Yeah. I mean, in terms of reserves, like reserves have been growing on a regular basis. I think um these are as of July 1st, 24th. Those
are when they're certified. So, those are kind of the balances that I compare on the annual basis here. And then if you look at the other charts, it shows you the target and where we stand at this point, which includes all of those additional transfers that were done. Questions on reserves or the reserve
policy? I don't know that this is anything we need to vote on. Not feeling it. It's not part of the budget, right? Uh where would we feel comfortable going forwards or do we 100%
I I mean we're being realistic. Um from what I understand is we're probably better than um a huge percentage of uh the state of Massachusetts. 99% of the state. crazy. Um, other than
Boston. Yeah. Well, yeah. I mean, realistically, should we be in the 20 million mark to to make sure we're good? I mean, realistically, our target is 100%. And our target moves every single
year. It just goes up and it's just going to continue to go up every single year. So, but I thought there was a point um when we first set this up where they said if we get to X number of million then interest and stuff on that
we wouldn't continually go farther behind and I don't know what that I'd have to look into and that originally that was what our target was going to be so that way there we never flip back is that when the bond
was created it was a long time ago. No, no, no. That but that we can find it. There's got to be minutes and stuff. Yeah. I And again, I think it was a discussion on it. I mean, I'm sure that target has changed if it's been that long, right? Like probably changes every day the way Oak and Yeah, but we could
take a conservative estimate on what what our interest rate would be and what it would look like. I mean, we could we could try to project that out. Uh so, yeah, because there's got to be a point where we get to where the interest is. So, and that's what they had talked about. I want all right it was somewhere
in the 20 million mark but again that was back then which that same thing could be 40 million now that target moves right and every time somebody retires it's moving exponentially is really what it's
happening you need to add the other part of that and it's not one of these because everyone's getting paid more and cost is more and blah blah blah so it it yeah and we should have our financials any day now so when we do I can tell you what that new target is.
Are you still following a a modus operandi of you know looking at transferring at the end of the year like free cash excess or not that there's anything known as excess free cash but like lumps at the end of the year big
lumps of free cash well I think we just did that not too recently but I would say yeah on an annual basis we should look at what those reserves are so you know uh we're usually certified by the end of October. So at that point looking at all the reserves to see because
because given our reserve level that seems about the only path to be able to put any kind of meaningful amount into that op. Yeah, makes sense. Other questions on reserve? We are on
to just a quick review of sources and uses and the project tax rate. And I I guess we could have looked at this one two different ways. Just started here before we looked at the expenses. It's usually a really good way to you
could have suggested that but in our defense we had a trumped through. So this was something we can't really dictate for. Uh and uh the uh the sheet that's
labeled proposed sources and uses is on page four of 40 or I can't find it. And really, it's just a recap of what we've basically reviewed up till now. And uh under general fund, the
first column, we see the excess levy that Tom and Kim keep talking about at the bottom of the page. No use of the capital stabilization fund. 100 going to the stabilization
fund. because that's in the overlay. I'm sure we'll get to it. Just just a motion. H5 is really just a pie chart of the revenues. I just had a quick question. Yes, go right ahead.
um compensated absences fund. How's that working out? That's relatively newish, right? Like three years. Uh I think we just started using it. Okay. Uh it's been there for quite a while. You you
didn't create it, right? No. Uh Kim was wondering why nobody was using it. Uh people were using were paying these expenses out of their line items in their budget. uh when somebody retired or left or uh
and so now we're actually using the account like it's supposed to be used and it's working. It's fine. It's great. Yeah, I think we're 100% funded when we did that last transfer and then we put 75,000 in every year and then as the year goes um we're, you
know, we're paying against it and then replenishing it. I guess if we get to a point where we're paying out $75,000, we'd have to look at how much we're putting into that fund on a regular basis. Um, but yeah, seems to be going okay right now. So the just looking at
um page six is where the 1985 tax rate is projected uh including the $187 in excluded debt for the high school.
uh actually just shows on the last bullet point at the bottom of the page. And then Kim has a very pretty bar chart on page seven. Kim, it doesn't actually show what the total of the two components
are. Um no, it doesn't actually on the chart. I think it's right here. 1985 is the estimated tax rate. So, it's just the combination of the two. You're right. It's not on that sheet.
And that's probably a good addition at some point. So, that Yeah. So, you don't have to do calculator. Yeah, that's right. So, it's in the the uh the narrative right before this chart comes up that that tax rate is 1985. But, uh, maybe it would help to have it on the
same page. So, it's about a 7% increase. Uh, looks like tax rate. Yeah. 1885 to 1812. I'm guessing that's what you were typing in your calendar or calculator. So, I'm going to say yes. Yeah. Agree. that it's not to say that I
couldn't run. I'm gonna agree. After all, I I didn't find Anna's email either. I feel like I need to take something off of every one of my sheets and add them all to one area. We've got 1985 of the text, right? We've got the breakdown and
then the increase. It's all there, though. So, and and basically where where that 7% a lot of that is is the excluded debt. It's starting to kick in. Yep.
And that'll just grow next year, won't it? Um we borrowed the majority uh like 83% or something like that of the school. So it's not going to be a huge jump started kicking in or I'm sorry. Has the
principal started kicking in? Uh it will this year. Yeah. Because we just permanently borrowed I think 97 million or something like that. So that that should be included in this um rate.
Okay, here we go. I thought it would be worse. It initially we anticipated it to be worse because we anticipated a higher interest rate than what we actually got and we had some pretty good premiums that offset. Right. So, weren't they
projecting like $1,1200 per average household or That was the original that was the estimate that we had sort of stayed on. Yeah. But I think if you look at your assessed values jumping up 25%. Um so instead of you being it on a
$342,000 house, you're now on a $42,000 house. Um so if you base the percentages on a $342,000, you're going to be right back up. Right. But that was again. Yeah, that's
the baseline we used and the time. Yeah, we never changed. Right. So this is the we're the FY26 is the is the year that we experience the kicker
for the high school. Yep. And FY27 it'll be we that is another little slight but nothing like the$187, right? It's just going to be a little increase to the$17. Okay. All
right. And last year part of the 36 cents was also the million dollars for the school, right? Yes. Borrowed a million initially. Oh, the mod was that the modulars? No, no, for the feasibility. Oh, for the
feasibility. Yeah, that was last year. Yeah. And that's part of the 36 cents that showed up last year. That was true. So maybe next year I'd recommend that we do start with the beginning of the alphabet, the estimated
the way it's done there. I I think I was a little afraid that we'd run we'd run out of time to review the actual budgets themselves. Um but uh anyone have any questions on on that those items? All right. Thank
you. Um, there any other parts of the town manager's budget that need to be reviewed by the financial oversight committee for recommendations to the town council that we we haven't covered so
far. Think of anything. So, all right. [Music] Um, so if not, I think we've covered everything in our recommendations. Um, and can I just go ahead? Sure. You don't have to I'm
sorry. Uh, I know that you've sort of recommended everything at this point, but there was a followup we had brought up about um, it so there was not another position. uh the the it was an expansion of one of the interns uh to have more
hours based on the workload that it has. So it just got popped into the wrong line item. So when we when we revise that budget, it'll all be back into and there's still just the two IT interns, not another position. So we did not
create another position in IT. I just want to because I we were sort of keeping with that uh level services no new position. So I just want to make that clear that that wasn't that was a sort of an extension of an employees hours and not a new position
that may actually change the budget slightly. Right. Lower the budget. I think it lowers the budget. Yes. Right. So there may be like I think recreation there might be a reduction there. There might be a reduction in it. Yep. So how do we handle that? Do they need to
recommend those again or those are just changes that go on to the town? Uh I don't think I don't think that it would matter. Internal change after council bill change the budget right based on whatever their Oh yeah. No, I mean
recommended sort of the the operating budget. Now they have a chance to Okay. pick it apart further. Uh and I assume there will be changes as we go and that'll just be some of them. Okay. Uh
again going the good way. Uh so I think therefore we're we have reviewed the town manager's budget uh and have found no changes to recommend to the town council. Would that be an accurate
description of I would say so. Yes. Um, that being the case, any suggestions, thoughts, um, that we would want to make to the town council in terms of,
uh, things to think about beyond just the budget or in terms of implications for future years that we'd like to include in anything. we might communicate to I know we have along the way we or us
since we're here if that's okay. Yeah. Okay. Sure. Yeah. We suggestions um for future, right? Don't ask me to repeat with you because they, you know, they came up so
they'd be maybe in our minutes. Um and I'm thinking that our we usually write the letter, right? Um, nothing wrong with short and sweet either. Yeah, I know we had a discussion when we talked about the the benefits,
the retirement and that whole suite of uh expenses that were just blowing the budget. uh that if there were consultants or if there was some kind of resource that the town could avail itself of to figure out
something to help, you know, moderate or or find alternatives to try to deal with that because that is just going to Yep. that's going to be a permanent squeeze. Um, and I know from my vantage point,
you know, if if if there's a little cost to that to deal with it, it seems like it would be well worth it, particularly if you could find somebody who knows what they're doing. Yeah. Because we had a conversation around health insurance and you know,
it's kind of it is what it is unless we make really tinker with percentages and that sort of stuff. So, but more long-term thinking like you're saying of let's figure out if we can do it internally or get help
and figure it out because things aren't going to costs aren't going to go down. that they are not uh I mean obviously I had a I had a little bug in my bonnet you know about
the the steps and the cola increases the combination because it's it's higher than your typical uh private company increases. So again, you're fighting against the normal, you know, increases,
but you're kind of strapped because you're everything you're dealing with is basically unions and and negotiations as well as much of what you're dealing with with your benefits and pensions, etc. But and that that's
the fine line. At some point, you can't support what's happening and then you have to lose people. And that is is sort of where where the school department was this year. There's nowhere to there's nowhere to find it. And um again, this is part of that whole
revenue expense curve thing that has sort of uh we've sort of got it under control here, but you can see the impact on just one year increase has on the budget. and and we've been more than conservative with our
increases the last two years and we're still h hurtling out of control. Um and and yeah, it's it's difficult to find that that balance area where you're still providing services and you're
still taking care of your people who take care of you, but sooner or later it tips over. Um and and We're just trying to limit that unfortunately. But yeah, no, you're right. And this is these are
all negotiation things. These are all contract things. These these conversations that uh they're they're just a reality now. Uh it's not a threat of if we can't get this spending under control, we're going to lose people out of this unit. We're here.
Uh other other I want to commend the town manager the finance director for their thorowness, the paperwork, the presentation. Very impressive. Very impressive. Thanks Rich. Most most to Kim. Well, we can
tell that you know um things are jing this way because this is it's become more of literally a review and not huge tinkering and not it's become more of a philosophical
discussion about the future. Um, so I think that shows that things have really shaped up in the budget department as far as putting actual policy to work and um
enforcing the vision. Well, thank you. And again, I appreciate I appreciate this process because I think you don't realize how much we actually get out of it. uh and how how we're taking notes and thinking about what we're going to change a
little bit next year and what that looks like and and the projection for next year and uh you know we have a capital stabilization fund because of our conversations at this table last year. Um, you know, we all the every time we talk about this, we find something else.
And this is this is the beauty of having a transparent public system and we all get to just say all these things and work it all out. Um, so thank you all for for having the conversations. I know it it's a lot.
It's a lot to look through and it's a lot to look through again and again and again and again. Uh, so we appreciate all your input as well. Yeah, I think on the school side, the scary part is the continuing special education pressure and uh the scary part
is continually having to add staff with the same number of students. Uh that that whole dynamic of more people needing to be involved with the same number of students. It's just a uh without really ne necessarily getting
more funding from anywhere but from our residents. Um but I mean I I have no solutions for that. No. Yeah, we were we we we've been having this conversation since November uh that
there aren't any solutions. Uh and and we we were I haven't heard as much talk about why don't we remove Prop 2 and a half and I've heard this year and it's because nobody has a solution and there's no money from the state and so they're just the only solution is to
allow towns to go over two and a half to to for afford this kind of increase which is why the law was put into place in the first place. So it's it's crazy. It it like people are talking about things that they know they shouldn't talk about, but it's Well, I mean, you got to think outside the box to solve
these problem. You just have to have the residents vote for it. Yeah. Well, right. And and here we are saying we don't want to get even get up to the levy. Certainly don't want to go ask the residents for more money just to fund the operating budget when we just asked
everybody for $200 million to build a a high school campus. So, uh, yeah, certainly always a lot of balls in the air and you got to pick the right ones out. I'll ask you, Connor, uh, in terms and and other town
counselors, uh, would a letter be sufficient or would you like something else or I mean, I think as far as I'm concerned, a letter is sufficient. I think most of us here and listen to a lot of the discussions. If there was like you
know different recommendations to add or remove stuff then more might be necessary but I think since it was everything looks good as far as the committee was concerned a letter is sufficient. Okay. All right Jim I'd like to see a minimum 25page document.
I can have one say you need stuff to read. I got stuff for you to read. I can have margins, you know. No problem. I can make the type very large so we could read it. Yeah. Right. Right. Right. That's a 25 font
size. Um u very good. Well, uh I think our job is done. Anything else that we should discuss? Do we need to meet on Monday? I think you should. Sorry. probably Zoom
or something and approve your minutes and call if you have no business. I mean, you should approve the minutes, I would assume. Doesn't have to be Monday for this. Well, you have minutes from the other one. Just that's all you have to do is approve minutes, right? At this
point, basically. Yeah. That and I suppose we could review the letter at that point. If we're going to meet, if we meet in the past, we've had the chair writes the letter, right? And
then there's like editing if possible. But can Connor, can you refresh my memory? When is the budget hearing? Yeah, it's not next Tuesday. Tuesday. Okay. So, we've got time. So, we could
we could do a Zoom on the 5th. and for the purposes of just doing the two minutes and for the committee to just look at the letter I've written and make any changes you wanted to do and and then uh submit it at the end of the
day or submit it on Tuesday to uh I wasn't suggesting we won't set this up for you if you want to meet in person. I just thought it would be you wouldn't have to worry about showing up if if that's all you had to do was approve minutes. I have a conflict. So, oh, I don't think
Well, you can see it ahead of time. I don't think it'll be any. All right. I half a page. Yeah, it's not going to be much more than that. Uh, is that all right with everybody? Yeah. Which I What time you looking at? It's going to be
four o'clock. I If I could committ maybe I I could 4:30 would be better for me. 4:30 is fine. Yeah. Uh yeah, how's 4:30? Yeah, a couple minutes, right? 4:30 is fine. We're
zooming, right? Yeah. Zoom. Just have to We have to let um Jamie Jamie know that. And well, when you post the agenda is that I I mean I've never done a Zoom only public meeting. Is that You can. Yeah.
Okay. You'll get a panelist first. works for me. Yeah. And the purpose will be really uh review and approve uh April 30, April 24, April 30 and uh and also review our
letter to the town council. Yes. Well done committee and counselors for joining us as regularly as you have. Very much appreciated. It's been wonderful having your support and excellent job. Make a great
team and uh as Tim said uh you know it's very nice to be asking questions and and not having to start from scratch. you've, you know, you've done the groundwork, uh, you know, that we used
to in the appropriations days have to start from. So, it's nice that way. Thank you. I would echo those same sentiments. It was pretty wellrun this year and thank you all for participating in the process and certainly the the number of topics in which you broke them
out in the agenda was helpful. Great. Thank you. I will entertain a motion to adjurnn. So move here. I second. Second. All right. All in favor please say I. I. Uh
any proposed? We are adjourned. Entertain a motion to return the council meeting. Some moved. Second. Second. Third and second. Any other discussion? Seeing none, all those in favor, please say I. I. Any
opposed? Two. Very good.