call the meeting of the bilateral review committee to order at 604. Uh let's see and what we're going to pick up right where we left off which is chapter 393 because it says start here just to follow up with George and me. So what is our next step with what you saw
last meeting? >> I think the if you don't mind I think the first thing we should do is continue on with the general bylaws. Okay. >> Let's get all the general bylaws done and tidy that up. and then >> head to the zoning afterwards. Okay.
>> Um and that way there we have at least >> um a presentation to give to the council and say >> here's all your general bylaws. This is everything we found. Um these are some recommendations for improvements. >> Um general's done
>> because zoning zoning could take 15 years. Well, I I think >> before we start in on zoning, we ought to get meet with the planner, the town planner. Okay. >> Yeah. >> And and get him on board or her, whoever
it is at the time, on board with uh what we're looking for because they generally have more professional training in that than you know, planning board does. And again, I just don't know
how indepth of a review the charter was really expecting out of us. >> Yeah. >> Um >> we're going line by line right now. >> I mean, we could spend I I mean, if you think we've spent quite a bit of time on general >> Yeah. >> You said that from the beginning.
>> Every single word in there could >> Oh, I know. >> And um >> tell me about it. and each article. I mean, we could spend a month or more on each article. Um, >> but that that's my thought. Um, as the chair, do you
>> concur? >> The uh consultant that was hired was kind of looking for direction from us and what we had told him is >> I think first and foremost is we just need them cleaned up in just a single structure uh and go from there. Not any
type of recommendation or substant substantive change. It's just let's clean up what we have first before we go forward and >> agree. Okay. >> Try to make changes. >> Okay. Good. Thank you. Appreciate it. >> But if you're bored and you just want
some good reading, hit the zoning. Oh, yeah. The zoning is really the best part. >> All right. 393 Solicitors 393-1 permit required. No person shall
solicit money on any public way or other public place or go from house to house for the purpose of soliciting money or sell any tag, badge, or other article of any intrinsic value for the purpose of obtaining money without first having written permission to do so from the police chief or designate.
>> So, should we start right there? >> Yeah, we we know that doesn't happen, >> right? I mean, the high school does all those booster club things and >> so the Girl Scouts and the Boy Scouts. >> Boy Scouts. Yes, we can go on and on. Sasha Foundation.
>> So, how does this correlate to a gentleman standing on a sidewalk as people walking by asking for um donations >> like a um >> is that a pan handler? >> Pan handler, if you want to call it
that. We the Knights of Columbus collect money for special education outside of stop and shop and big wine and things like that. >> High school kids in the Rotary. >> Um so >> I believe well I believe under the first amendment they have a right to do that.
>> Yeah. >> Um >> but again I I just don't know. >> So sometimes rules are written >> even though you know you can't always enforce them.
You see, I I like the point. My point would be we want to keep this only because we may have to use it at some point if something gets egregious. >> I think it's more of a waste >> because let's say I'm soliciting money for Ryan scholarship fund,
>> right? >> And then someone comes over and says, "Well, you have to get a permit from the chief of police." >> Okay. >> Tell them show me all the other ones that got permits. >> Yeah. True. >> So now you're going to only enforce that rule against me. I think if we're not going to have something, we know something's not being enforced, >> it shouldn't be in there.
>> Okay, >> I see your point. Also, >> but I do think people going door to door knocking on your door. Um, should we should require them to have identification, what company are you with? Um, what's it for? And I think
that's really >> I think that's really where this comes in. Um I mean right now obviously uh solar companies they're going door to door everywhere. And >> um I do think it's important for them. They should have a badge. The badge
should say what company they're with. Um there are certain hours that they're allowed to do it, not allowed to do it. Um, that might be a state requirement >> because I talked to the police chief about about it and
he said he'll hear from people that, "Oh, I somebody stopped by my house and they said, "Oh, I got the permission from the chief." But all they're doing is getting like a permit from the at the state level and >> it just trickles down to him. >> I see.
I mean, this even goes in number of persons involved in soliciting, the dates, the hours that they're going to be doing it. Um, no solicitation is permitted after dark. >> And I think that this stuff's all geared
B is all geared to people coming to your house, knocking on your door. >> Yeah. Uh, I mean, obviously when this was done, they probably had the door to door vacuum salesman. Um, I'm trying to think of what else. Stanley Products,
>> Avon. I mean, we could go on and on. >> As much as I think Brian's got a valid point, I like I'd like to keep it the way it is in case it needs like to keep it. So, uh, any rewarding to a or leave it as is? >> Leave it as is. I think
>> I would tend to say leave it as is. >> But can we ask the chief of police for his input? >> I did. I just >> That was That was the whole input from him, huh? >> Did we already ask for it or did you you
just went, "No, we got 393 coming up. Let's ask." >> Okay. There was something else I talked to him about. Was the public entertainment? No, he scratched all that. There was another one that the chief
talks about and that's when I was talking to him and then I think this is that's how this one came up. So I would look under a it's for the hawkers and pedallers. >> Yeah. And when you talk about hawkers
and peddlers, I'm thinking of the people pushing the shopping cart with the thing the fourth of July parade and stuff. >> And again, there may be more. Um, but in this situation, no person shall
solicit money on any public way or public place. Um, I I would I would look to remove that and just leave no person um shall go from house to house for the purpose
of soliciting money or selling any tag because I really think we're going to run into issues with a pan handler standing on a sidewalk asking for money. Um the high school kids, what are we going to find them
each 50 bucks? Yeah, >> but we only made 30. >> I mean, same with the fire department with the the boot. >> So, Ralph, you're recommending that we that we strike >> public way or other public place.
>> Well, money >> solicit money. So strike solicit money on any public way or other public place or >> so that no person shall go out from house to house for the purpose of soliciting money. >> Right.
>> Yeah. Okay. Yeah. >> Okay. >> So remove from solicit through the word or. >> Okay. >> So no person shall go. >> No house of the house. Yeah.
So, I make a motion to approve chapter 393 with the amendment. >> Second. >> We'll let you do that. >> There we go. >> Like that. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Little person, but not >> the sh the sh big guy.
>> We'll get it eventually. >> There you go. Okay. >> Motion's been made and seconded. Any further discussion? Hearing none. All those in favor, please say I. >> I. >> Uh, do we want to move the violations and penalties?
>> Yeah, >> it looks good the way it is. >> We got to move that to appendex 500. >> 500 schedule 500 fee schedule. Failure to regger properly with the police chief designated will result in a
fine >> as specified >> as specified >> in the schedule 500. >> Chapter 500, isn't it? Schedule fees chapter 500 >> fee schedule >> part five fee schedule
>> chapter 500 >> but it's actually called fe >> fine and penalty schedule it's chapter 500 again and would that be listed under 500-11 police department fees fines and penalties Please. >> Mhm.
>> You want to put that? >> I as long as we remember to put it in. >> Yeah. >> The schedule. >> Uh I'll entertain a motion to recommend chapter 383- section 2 violations and penalties as
amended. >> So moved. >> Second. >> Move and second. Any further discussion? Hearing none. All those in favor signify by saying I. I. >> Any opposed? None. Any extensions? None. Motion carries. >> We're cruising now.
>> Chapter 395, solid waste. Oh, >> uh, mandatory. In order to implement a program of recycling in conjunction with ordinary waste disposal, residents of every household shall separate waste material into the following categories before depositing depositing same for disposal.
glass containers, paper, other waste as described in 310 CMR19-017. If no separation takes place, waste material shall not be accepted for collection at the disposal location. And a person who violates the provisions of this section shall be fined in accordance with the provisions of
chapter 1, article one, section 1-2 of these bylaws. So no separation to wait at the disposal location. >> The curb or if it's a transfer station has to be separated. >> I just wasn't sure if you just stopped
the sentence after will not be accepted for collection. >> Does simplify it. I don't I don't want people to think that this is only at the transfer station or the >> could be at their home. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Let's do that. >> The CD enforceable.
>> I think the trash people enforce >> Oh, they do. >> Um, not in my neighborhood. >> So, the health Yeah. >> has been going to businesses >> and making sure that their dumpsters are separated, the recyclables and all.
>> Yeah. Uh, >> so for C, do we want to break that out into a separate section or do you want to leave it just in C? Wait a minute. Any person who violates the provisions of this section shall be
fined in accordance with provisions of chapter one >> and change that to chapter 500. I think article one, chapter one, article one just says any violators of this bylaw have to pay the $50 fee or whatever $100 fee >> shall be fined in accordance with
>> chapter 500 section blah blah blah. >> Yeah, that's what I would suggest. >> Do we want to break it into its own section? So the what we just did it's it's its own section the violations and penalties. >> So it would be 395-2
>> or dash3 just to make it easier for me to >> weave it in. >> You make C 395-3 >> and that way there whatever violations and penalties comes at the very end of the Right. Yeah. the game.
>> Yeah. It keeps things parallel. So any person who violates the provision of this chapter. So this brings up a good point section. So is 395-1
a section? And then subsections would be A, B, and C. Disumping and disposer. I would say any person who violates the provisions of this chapter shall be fined in accordance with the provision
or uh shall be fined according to schedule 500 or whatever because I think the section is 395-1 and if we break that out into its own
section >> then there is no violation. which brought us to our discussion earlier. Do you understand now thinking >> about following it or else >> because if it's a section then it's only 395-1 >> right >> where if it's a chapter it's if you're
violing in 395 >> right >> and so we're so number C is going to be 395-3 which is a section >> okay >> and there is no >> nothing in that section except hey if you violate it well there's nothing there to violate
>> so that's why I would say instead of section chapter Yeah, >> I will entertain a motion to recommend >> chapter. >> You have to add it up there. >> You want to make it difficult for me, don't you? >> This is going to blow up.
>> Yes, it will. >> He's a career educator. >> I know. Oh, I did all of these every time you moved a line. >> Where'd everything go? >> There you go, Rich.
>> Beautiful. >> Now, I will entertain a motion to recommend chapter 395 as amended. >> So moved. >> Uh do Uh >> oh. >> Do we need to look at 395-2? >> Yes. All other current regulations of the board of health for dumping and
disposal of refuge will remain in effect and copies are available in the town clerk's office. >> The board of health currently the health department currently does not list any regulations regarding dumping >> in the town clerk's office. >> What?
>> In the town clerk's office. >> Oh, and the the the health department has a list of health department codes and regulations >> on the website. >> Yeah. There's nothing in there about dumping. >> There's a lot of stuff on food, standards of fitness of human
habitation, standards for camps, swimming pools, tanning regulations, tobacco, but nothing about dumping. >> I wonder if that would be considered the calendar. It's got the things you can and can't throw away.
>> Um, is that board of health though? >> That's board of health. Yeah. I can't well somewhere we need to make sure they have regulations have it in the bylaw. >> So is there anything for illegal dumping?
Well, one one would hope that the regulations would specify what's legal and what's illegal. Well, no. What I'm thinking is I mean, is there any fines or whatever that are set up for illegal dumping? I mean, I see it all the time. Um Oh, yeah. A
truck will pull off the road onto someone's private property, back out of sight, and just um 330 Chestnut Street. Oh, yeah. >> If you go in the back, there's mattresses and everything. Really? >> Yeah. We should have something where we can find them if the police catch
someone illegally dumping. And I don't know if this is the place to put it or if we should have something else or we should discuss it >> or let Ryan Google it and see if it's actually within our bylaw. >> Not to make this more messy is talking
solid waste, but really it's referring to mandatory recycling. I think dumping is a whole another section because recycling is much different than dumping and disposal of refugees. Unless that's under the current regulations
>> that aren't on the website. [Applause] Recycling comes out of what town department is it? >> Health department. >> Health department health. >> But but J is saying it's not there. >> Well, I think that's just cuz it's just not there. Like they just put didn't put
on the website. Oh, >> okay. Yeah, this there's a mass general law chapter 270 section 16 disposal of rubbish etc on or near highways, coastal inland waters.
>> Okay, so covered under state law. >> Well, no, only those areas, right? close to the waters or whatever. >> I think most laws have something for whether you're tossing trash out of a car,
>> right? illegally dumping or whether you're dumping a pickup truckload somewhere or Yes. I think the state just does highway public land near waters or at an unapproved facility.
I mean unapproved facility. >> What the hell is that? >> 330 chestnut. >> Sure. Dumping mattresses. No, what they're talking about is um uh a few places that like accepted tires.
>> Yeah. >> And they charged it for tires and all but never were permitted. I think >> I would say set up if we can just a note >> um things you know like we had talked about before going through other towns
bylaws to see what's in them and all >> and look at a fine for illegal dumping. >> Yeah, >> I guess that's the best >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Litter littering littering andor illegal
dumping. >> Mhm. See, you got city of Boston, Worcester, Jiggy, Holy Oak's got it, too. Wet lands. Put that one aside. New comment.
All the current regular. I love the other waste as described under master. Quite the list. Hey, Ryan. Do you want to be the clerk of the council? >> I know. It's amazing. >> It's amazing what you can do. Yeah. >> Can you imagine how much we could get
done if we could just do it right there? Oh, >> yeah. If I don't do it right now, it'll never get done. >> Right. Exactly. >> So, we're going to hold on this then, right? >> Yeah. So, we want to we won't recommend that. >> Mhm. >> Uh what I would say I mean the rest of the
adjustments that we've made look fine, >> right? >> And then we will just look for an area to put littering or illegal dumping. >> Yeah. >> Yep. >> Littering on here. >> I I added it. >> Oh,
and I don't know if there's >> Yeah. Oh, it's another pollutant under MS4 regulations. >> God, I remember reading them. >> Speaking of chapter 402, storm water management. >> Let me comment on this one before you try to dive into it. This was written by
DPW, okay, in coordination with looking at at the state requirements. >> Yeah. So, like all of these definitions are right out of the state regulations and I know that they DPW put a lot of time and effort in on writing this this
thing. Uh I don't know that we need to go through it line by line to try to second guess them. >> I think Bruce just mentioned something about updating >> or having to update the storm water management.
>> It's quite a dock in your foot. Wow. Four. >> Yeah. I I Stormware Bas in 2020 though. That's probably a little too old. >> Yeah. I'm just saying I think if if they need to update it, they will update it. >> Um but this is um
>> Is this something you move on to Bruce just to have him kind of review it? >> Let me see if he sent it >> cuz this is showing 1982. uh garage. >> Uh no, this is this is done a lot more. >> No, the thing we have from Bruce is the
water rules and regulations. >> Yeah. >> No, Susan, do you want Bruce to take a look at this though? >> Adopted uh April uh 2022. >> Oh, no, that's marijuana. I'm sorry, the wrong word. >> Amended. There's certain amendments and stuff in here from >> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Um but yeah, this didn't go up. Yeah, you're right. >> This was put into the 1982 general bylaws. >> Yeah. >> Um, >> there amendments are on in April 2022, though. Quite a few. >> Yeah, >> I see four or five.
There are are references to the D82 um law, but right, >> it's really um >> I would imagine in 1982 they didn't care what you did with your storm water. >> Yeah. Yeah,
>> I was what? 43 53 years ago. >> 53. >> 43. >> I was born in 82. >> Graduated in 82. >> I'm not asking you that question. >> Yeah.
>> So, should you have Bruce take a look at it? Uh, right. Ryan. >> Yeah. I'll just I'll tag him so he can provide recommendations. >> Yeah. I mean, as you know, amendments have been made. >> Yeah. >> Four years ago, three years ago.
>> I mean, they're required to have this bylaw and it it actually reflects stuff from the feds as well as from the state. So, storm water management All right. 402.
>> So, I mean, I'm just going to point out like 40212. >> Mhm. >> Stormwater enterprise fund. >> Mhm. >> It starts out with a purpose. The stormwater management program. um
enterprise fund is the basic uh financial aspect of it. >> So I mean most of the stuff that's under this doesn't >> fall under really an enterprise fund. It
falls under the storm water guidelines and stuff. >> Oh yeah. Needs to be cleaned up. There's a whole serant thing of deficiency. >> Can you stop right there for a minute? >> Yep. property association whether it's
>> and you're right there's a whole >> okay I was just wondering about you know how they handle private property >> I mean definitions are in two separate locations 40212 has a whole thing of definitions and 4021 has definitions
So, so although I do agree with you, George, that most of the language and all probably way above um what we should get into. It does look as though there should be some
visual uh looking at it just to see if we can't uh adjust some of it and make it read better. Like I said, I mean, stormwater enterprise fund should be an enterprise fund set up for all storm water related um expenses.
There. I just cleared up six pages of it. [Applause] [Applause] There's a lot of words in here. >> Yeah, this is way above my pay grade, I'll tell you that.
>> Ask pretty simple. >> Yeah, it's pretty simple. >> Are you serious? >> Nothing to it. and then just slip over to MS4 and read that this is a state mandate. Okay. Required to have this
>> and the language comes from the state and from the feds. >> Yeah. >> Like the definitions are all they didn't write these definitions. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. They probably got here's the template that we want you to put in, >> right? >> Do a find and replace that time. And
>> so I'm trying to think of who was working here way back when the storm water came in in the DPW. >> Dave Grassi. >> I don't think it was Dave. >> Sylvio Baruzzi.
>> Wow. You >> Bob Parent >> maybe. >> Who? No. Who? >> Little Frank. >> That's the one. >> Actually, Tom Christian doesn't know all about this. Yeah. >> Oh, that's right. >> Yeah.
>> Um because it they spent over two years writing this and when they got done and handed in, it was like that took two years. >> Okay. And like George said, half of it comes directly through the state. It's
more like a template type bylaw. >> Yeah. Um, I think we should each go home and read it. >> Okay. It's too much for right here. >> Yeah. >> All right. Chapter 407,
>> Streets and Sidewalks. >> Article one. >> Deposit. The hell? >> That doesn't sound dry. Littering. >> Yeah, that's litter. That's the littering. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Loering in there, too, though. >> Well,
prohibited deposits or loitering. >> No person shall throw or leave in or upon any street, court, square, lane, road, public square, public enclosure, and or body of water, or vacant land within the limits of the town any filth, rubbish, or other substance. Seems incredibly open and vague.
Yes. >> Although I live on a circle, so that's not addressed. That's a street court square lane road. >> So is that is that supposed to be where it says lording? Is that supposed to be littering? >> No. >> No. The next one's loitering. >> That's something. >> So this is prohibited deposits. That's
what the littering is that is called. >> Yeah, >> I guess. So we couldn't find it. I I would recommend that no person shall throw or leave any filth, rubbish, or other substances in or upon. So I would
after throw or leave, I would move up any filth, rubbish, or other substance cuz it flows better that way. >> That way it covers your circle. And >> can we just say any public way rather than trying to break out every type of
description of a public way? What about someone who lives in front of my house? >> Well, there not I mean I don't that's not a Yeah, I get to your point. This is all public ways. Street, court, square, lane, road, public square, public
closure, body of water, >> public way or vacant land. Body of water or vacant land. Public enclosure. So, in or upon any public way and/or a body of water or vacant land. >> Yeah.
>> Mhm. >> Public enclosure. >> What's a public enclosure? >> How about a bus stop? >> Public enclosure. >> Public way. >> The pavilion at Heritage Park. Is that a
public enclosure? Well, not really. I >> And again, I'm throwing it out there. I don't know. >> Yeah. I don't know. I'm still stuck on the name. >> Yeah, I think we should change it to littering. >> Yep, I agree. >> Yeah, >> littering >> because we literally tried to find it
and couldn't find it. >> But littering, I would think would be or should be in a different area from loitering, shouldn't it? >> Well, this is about streets and sidewalks. >> Okay. >> And this is under streets and sidewalks.
>> Lock them out. Should it be under streets and sidewalks? >> Well, this is things that are prohibited to be deposited on streets and sidewalks. >> It's in the title, too. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Littering.
>> Littering. >> I like littering myself. and ille and illegal dumping because littering you thinking gump wrappers and cigarette uh but but you're talking things that are bigger than just littering, >> right?
>> Yeah. >> Like a mattress. >> Like a mattress. >> Yeah. So, >> sorry. This is this Well, this is going to sound pretty nasty, but I know uh in San Francisco there's people leaving
other things on sidewalks other than that litter. Um and I think that's covered under the last other substance. >> Yeah. >> And that's probably prohibited deposits. I don't. >> So, we left other substance still is
there >> and we're going to call something like that littering. Okay, I can go with that. >> Yeah, >> I know. I know it's you would never think that it could happen, but >> Well, well, take a step a little
further. What about if I'm walking my dog and a dog lit it >> litters >> the pauses that is covered with a dog one >> that's filth >> wow that's >> the things you have to come up with
though and think about I I just I would never think about >> I'm the one going along picking up the cans >> and as a kid it used to be five cents woohoo M >> I like where it is right now.
>> I like where it is. I think it's in the limits at the top. I like it. >> Good. >> Okay. >> Good. Good for >> Yeah, because it's under streets and sidewalks. Yeah, I just >> I hope someone doesn't step onto just
someone's property. Anyways, uh 407-2 loitering. No person shall in violation of MGL chapter 272 section 59 or any amendments thereto linger continue to sit, stand, or occupy any part of the
public street, public place, public building, or any property not belonging to that person or under that person's control so as to obstruct or impede the free passage of any other person after being instructed or directed by a police officer to move on.
So they can be there until or unless a police officer tells them to move on. >> Because I think the the key is obstruct or impe. >> Yeah. >> So like the first amendment auditors like that's the one thing you'll hear them say is well we're not obstructing anyone. >> That's true.
>> Right. continue system. >> Actually, that's pretty well written. >> Yeah, >> it really is Yeah. >> So, this would probably include protesters blocking >> Yeah. >> the passage. >> Yeah.
>> It would include that, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. That's Yeah. That's just this. >> I'm like, "Wow, it got dark." >> Yeah, it always >> Yeah, I'm good with that one. >> I'm good with it, too.
>> Okay. >> Penalties, >> obviously. Let's change that to >> chapter. Yep. 500. So that's our only amendment. >> Mhm. >> Uh 407-1 and 407-3.
But there's Oh, so I guess we can That's article one. >> It's article article. >> It's section 407 article one. >> Yeah. >> So this is one of those ones that breaks out into articles. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> So I'll make a motion to approve article
one, chapter 407 and article one as amended. >> Second. Move and second. Any further discussion? Hearing none. All those in favor signify by saying I. I. Any opposed? Any abstensions? None. Motion carries. So, I'm just curious. If I drop
a soda can on a sidewalk, I get fined $100 for littering, but if I leave that same sidewalk covered in snow, only cost me 50 bucks. >> Well, there you are.
>> Removing snow and ice from sidewalks. Various sidewalks of ice and snow. Residents on property or owners of property where this where there exists a sidewalk in front of or abudding a traveled way. Constructed concrete, cement, brick, stone, or other hard
matter lying between the property lines and the traveled way designated by the town manager or designate under town control shall clear said walks of ice and snow within 24 hours after the snow ceases to fall. Should the sidewalk become should the sidewalks become
covered with ice that cannot be readily moved, the abuters or residents shall be required to place sand or salt or other material thereon to render said walks safe for pedestrians. >> Wow. >> Did you see in the reminder that Long Meadow is people are just paying the
fines? >> Say that again. >> Not taking your >> What's that Marilyn >> in the reminder tonight? >> Yeah. People are at Long Meadow are just taking this paying the fines instead of taking care of the sidewalks. >> Really? >> The selectman were discussing that.
>> Oh, >> well, I don't I guess this kind of works, doesn't it? >> The definition. Yeah, I think it does. >> I think it does >> cuz I think most people >> So, wait a minute. Resident >> part of the trick is getting into town
to clean the sidewalks in front of town property. That would be the DPW. >> Yeah. I can't wait to see how they're going to plow the high school parking lot. >> That's going to be bad. >> It's I'm looking for mowing. >> Mowing all those little
>> little strips. There's going to be cars on both sides. >> Wow. >> So, wait a minute. >> Scissors. >> Scissors. Push the little wheelboard. designated by the town manager or
designate under town control. >> Why is that even in there? >> Take you want to take out the phrase under town control or designate. >> Well, designated by the town manager or designate under town control. >> Um
>> I'm not sure what under town control means. >> Yeah, I don't think >> Yeah, it's a traveled way constructed. I don't know. I know what it means, but I >> I don't think you need to end a town. >> Okay. Like, um, >> uh, >> and we're under
>> unaccepted street. >> Well, we're under streets and sidewalks. >> So, would that be would that be considered uh private ways aren't included in this, >> right?
What do you mean? It says owners of property as in a a private way, >> right? But the property line is a traveled way. >> Traveled way could be a private way. >> It doesn't say public way. It says
traveled way. >> Yeah. >> Well, in all honesty, actually, all of the private ways that I know of don't have any sidewalks. Yeah, because they were never put in because they've never been accepted by the town. >> Yeah,
>> I I actually >> I don't see our town manager having designated or under town control. So under town control would be accepted by the town, which would do away with a private way
anyways because private ways aren't under town control. >> Hence the reason most of them don't get plowed >> is under town control. >> That under town control just doesn't make any sense there. I don't I'm not
following it. >> Yeah. That's why I would just go through the traveled way and just remove designated by the town manager or designate under town control. I agree. >> Okay. But then who who designated it?
>> Doesn't need to be >> accepted by the town. >> It's been it's been defined that way. >> Okay. >> Um >> you have to designate it if it if it falls under the definition that's there. >> Mhm. And we do have sidewalks on private
ways because when a development goes in, they put sidewalks in before streets are accepted. Accepted. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> So, you're saying delete designated through tile control? >> Yeah.
I think this one may have been one of those that we just threw in town manager >> and it used to be a board of selectmen. >> Yeah. >> Doesn't quite work the same. >> So, is that what we're going to amend?
>> What you want to do? The delete designated through town control that statement. >> Delete that. >> I don't think the whole thing. >> Keep going. Yep. Right there. >> Yeah. >> Yeah.
>> You have a definition of sidewalk. You don't need to >> designate it. >> Okay. >> Brick, stone, or other hard matter. I think it's pretty straightforwards anyways. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I mean, and everyone knows if you have a
walk in front of your house, you're supposed to clear it. >> Enforcement that needs to be changed to chapter 500. Issue citations violation of this by law as
specified in chapter 500. Yep. Well, the letter B is interesting. I didn't realize that existed. Never seen him do that, but I I think it should remain there. >> Yeah. Yeah, it needs to stay there.
Good with B. I'm good with that. >> Yeah, I think we need that. >> I will entertain a motion to recommend article two as amended. So moved. >> Second. >> Move and seconded. Any further discussion? Hearing none. All those in favor signify
by saying I. >> I. >> Any opposed? Any abstensions? Motion carries. All right. Article three. >> What the hell? Dumping or disposal of snow and ice from outside town.
Dumping of snow and ice containing salt or chemicals prohibited. The dumping or disposal from outside the town of snow or ice containing salt or other chemical substance is hereby prohibited. >> Makes sense. >> So what this is is
>> totally confused by far from outside the town. >> So what happened in the past is >> he filled up his truck >> during blizzards and stuff other >> areas let's say um a commercial business
in Yeah. in >> Springfield, >> Long Meadow, Springfield, wherever. Um, a contractor takes, clears the snow, he brings it to East Long Meadow and dumps it on his property >> and charges up. >> Wow. >> And,
um, that's prohibited. >> Okay. Okay, that makes sense now. Yeah. Okay. >> Now, if it's from Stop and Shop in East Long Meadow and the property he's dumping it on is in East Long Meadow, it looks like that's okay. Yeah. >> Well, yes. That's Yeah, that's
>> not for nothing. What real difference does it make? >> We don't want that long. >> Yeah, it's like okay long amount of salt, but not >> Well, no. I mean, >> I do understand though. I do. And I
>> Yeah, I mean, bringing in large quantities of snow and ice from other areas and stockpiling them in town can cause major problems. I mean, you know, >> there's not many places left to stockpile. >> I I understand that >> years ago there was. And I I can think
of one right in the center of town that it was done on, but um that was a long time ago. >> I think it makes sense. It just it's for management purposes. >> Yeah. The statement. Yeah. Okay. >> Then we get the old chapter 500 and D7.
>> I already did it. >> Okay. >> Wow. Okay. >> I make a motion to accept article three uh as amended. >> Do I have a second? >> Second. >> Move and second. Any further discussion? >> Hearing none. All those in favor signify
by saying I. I. Any oppos? Any objections? Motion carries. >> Man, we are on a roll today. >> These are exciting things, too. >> Article four, obstructions and excavations. Hm. Uh 407-8. Placement of
staging or materials prohibited. No person shall erect in or upon any street or sidewalk in a town any staging or place there on any material any of any such kind in manner to obstruct or impede the free use of such street or sidewalk for public travel without a written permit from the Department of
Public Works superintendent or designate. And no person shall place any material upon the street, sidewalk, or tree belt in the town, which may damage or injure any person, animal, or vehicle traveling thereon. >> Makes sense. >> Does it's pretty straightforward.
doesn't get followed. But that's fine. >> Does the DPW superintendent even know that he can write a permit for this? >> I don't know. I bet you no one's ever asked him. They just back up their dump truck and say, "I'm going to need this
hard pack to do this driveway, and this is the only place I can dump it." >> As long as it doesn't obstruct or impede the free use of such street or sidewalk. >> Okay. Uh, any recommendations for 407-8?
>> All right. 407-9 department required for obstructions and excavations, railings or barricades. No person or persons except employees of the Department of Public Works or their agents shall break up, break or dig up or obstruct any street or sidewalk or
excavate within any public way without a permit from the Department of Public Works, which may require said person to furnish a bond if the Department of Public Works superintendent so demands to indemnify and save harmless the town against any damages or caused by reason of any claims or dam of damages or by
reason of any process civil or criminal on account of the existence of sub such obstruction or excavation. in the Department of Public Works may impose such cons conditions, terms, and limitations as it deems necessary. All work shall be in accordance with the Department of Public Works
specifications. The Department of Public Works shall notify the police department and the fire department of any such permit in a timely manner. So again, do they actually issue permits? I see what is NPL on Pleasant Street digging up the whole thing. And I
don't know. >> They're utiliz Oh, permit. Sorry. >> Yeah. >> I mean, it it makes perfect sense to have this in here. It does. >> I I'm pretty sure >> I just don't know how practical it's been. >> I'm pretty sure DPW asks for bonds in
certain cases. They do. Yeah. >> Okay. Um, especially if it's, you know, not a utility or it's just somebody who's doing it, you got to make sure they're not going to walk away and leave a hole in the ground, >> right? >> Poor dig up a road and go belly up and
>> Yeah. >> Now the town is on the hook for fixing that. >> Yeah. >> Any personal license, >> right? B. Any person licensed or permitted to obstruct any street or break or dig the ground of the same shall put up and keep at all times a
suitable railing or barricade around the parts of the sidewalk or street so obstructed or dug up so long as the same shall be unsafe or inconvenient for traveling. The person so licensed or permitted shall also keep enough lighted warnings
at or near the parts of the street so obstructed or dug up from twilight through the whole night as shall be sufficient to warn travelers. >> So those are basically the beacons. >> A little flashing a little flash. >> I think that's fine.
>> Yep. Good. Article four is done. It is now 7 o'lock. >> Okay. Do you need a motion for article 4? >> I don't think so.
>> We didn't make any changes. Yeah. >> Beautiful. >> At 7:00, I'll make a motion to adjurnn. >> So moved. >> Uh moved and seconded for further discussion. I will not be in town for the next meeting.
>> Ralph, can you do that? >> Yeah, we'll get George to do it. >> We just I you know I think R just to value me with this. I would then say to postpone that meeting myself. I don't know how you feel, Ralph J. >> I I agree. I can't even think of how
what that's >> Well, I wouldn't want to I could probably do it, but I wouldn't want to touch it because Yeah, >> we're still under further discussion on the motion to >> But there's only two more small little sections in chapter 407 would be completed.
>> Let's do it then. >> And considering chances are good we're not going to have the next meeting. >> Yeah. >> Um >> so what what are you saying about what do you want us to close up 407? >> Yeah. Chapter 407, which is water discharges and sales near school property.
>> Okay. >> Right. >> Mhm. >> So, do you withdraw your motion to adjourn? >> Well, leave it on the table. >> Discharges prohibited. Is that what we're under? >> Yep. Yeah. 47-10. No person shall permit water from the eaves or lead pipes of
any building owned or cared for by said person to be discharged upon or run on the public sidewalk or shall suffer any building to shed water on or make or permit any drain slle gully or conduit upon said person's land to discharge
water upon a sidewalk tree belt or travel the way within a public way. >> Mhm. That's a lot of words to say. Keep your water in your property. Yes. And >> it's lead pipes, not lead pipes. >> Lead pipes. >> They talk about down pipes.
>> Yeah. >> Wow. >> I thought that was a weird place to put lead pipes. >> Huh. >> Okay. Lead pipes. >> Whatever. >> Yep. No, that's good. People do that. Yeah. >> I got to tell you, there's a guy on
Summersville Road who's doing that >> on a regular basis. We did a huge uh construction job in Springfield where he was discharging the road and it was just an ice skating rig coming ice. Yeah, let's keep going.
>> 407-11 abatement of violations. When said person is notified of violating this bylaw and the department of public works, said person shall within 10 days abate said violation. If the violator fails to abate the situation within set time frame, the department of public works superintendent with the approval of town manager shall take reasonable means to abate the violation which may
include but not limited to the issuance of tickets pursuant to a noncriminal disposition procedure authorized under chapter 1 article 2 of these bylaws in addition to or in place of any criminal or civil actions. >> Do we have to fold the chapter 500 again?
>> It doesn't say a didn't have an amount. Yeah, it doesn't know. >> Because chapter one, article two says any violation of this bylaw is $100. >> Yeah. [Applause] >> So, and then chapter one, article two
references chapter 500. >> Okay. I'm >> Yeah. >> I mean, most of the times we've been referring to chapter 500. >> Yeah. >> What What's the thought process? If we refer it to 500, we we stay consistent.
>> Yeah. So, just take this part out here and just say chapter 500. >> Mhm. >> Take this part out too. As specified check, she'll issue the issuance of tickets as specified. >> Instead of tickets, the issuance of
fines pursuant to Yep. >> Yep. >> Mhm. >> That's much better. >> I will entertain a motion to recommend article uh article five.
>> Article four. >> Five. Five. >> Five. So, foods. Oh, this is article five. Oh, yeah. Article five. Right. You're right. So I move that we adopt article five uh with the changes made.
>> I'll second that. >> Move and second. Any further discussion? Hearing none. All those in favor signify by saying I. I. Any opposed? None. Absentions. None. Motion carries. >> George, you were already on to the next one. >> Yeah. Article six. Uh this one I don't do not understand at all.
>> Sales near school property. Sale of food items. No person shall except for school cafeteria personnel offer for sale, sell or cause to be sold any articles of food or any article suitable for or intended for human consumption within the limits
of the public ways within 100 yards from the nearest boundary of any school grounds before the hours of 7:00 a.m. and 400 p.m. Between the hours of 7 a.m. and 4 p.m. on days when the public schools are in session. The hell did that come from?
>> This came from the school. seller cost sold any articles of food. >> Was this something to do with the functions that were going on at the school and they didn't want any like Yeah. Be like >> entities selling?
>> I'm trying to think. >> But if that's outside the school hours, right? >> Not on school day. Yeah. Um I mean basically what they're saying is >> um >> you can't go to the you can't go to the
schools and try and sell >> items when the kids are in school. >> Right. Right. >> You can't park a food truck on Maple Street. >> Right. >> Right. >> Yeah. >> Or in the parking lot when they're >> Right. >> Yeah. And I I remember that we added this and
amended in its entirety in 22. >> Okay. >> And I I it had something to do with they were concerned of the possibility, not that it happened, but >> they didn't want anyone coming up and >> like you said, offering food or
whatever, put a food truck in the parking lot at lunchtime. >> Right. Can the kids leave the school during lunch if they want to? >> They do. They have to get a dismissal off from a parent. >> Okay. Okay. >> They just can't automatically leave. No. >> Yeah. >> I would believe this. >> Leave it. So, >> yeah. It seems like it hasn't time yet.
>> I I'm sure they do things in school where they sell stuff like Girl Scout cookies or >> Right. or fundraisers. >> But we can't do it during school time though. >> You can't do it. >> Cafeteria takes precedent over all that. I've had major battles with
>> I think that's part of this >> major battles with the capital when I was there. We want to do a fundraiser but during lunch and >> so we don't have to because we haven't changed anything. We don't have to to do that. >> Okay. So when we come back now we're at 416. Is that it? Vehicles in traffic.
>> Hey Rob, did you do anything with this thing? >> Uh article 115. >> Yes. You still working on >> Sorry. Um >> it's okay. So it was the right one. Actually, we're at 4:12 next. >> So transparency.
>> If we skip the next meeting, >> the next meeting after that is Thanksgiving. >> You can't. >> No. >> No. Wow. So we may have to switch days. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> If possible, can we send out an email
and say Thursday? Um, so just as a heads up, the council was um wondering if we were on track. I I believe our um to finish all bylaws are
supposed to be done by March, >> right? >> Um, which would include all the zoning, >> right? >> Um, >> yeah, it won't happen. >> And I I don't see that happening. No. >> Um, I know we delayed at the moment the center town district. they were going to
submit a um bylaw change for to create a whole new district and all and I said I think that's too much on our plate. Let us try and get some of this done >> right >> before all of a sudden we're trying to look at this. We're looking at the
consultant and we're assessing a whole new bylaw. Um, >> are they also going to update the from what the consultant said it has to be on the zoning map or >> So, believe it or not, actually, it is. I have a map. It's just the last time it was reprinted.
>> They didn't put the colors and stuff on there. Um, >> it is on there. Um, and I I I do have an accurate map that shows it and I'm like, I don't know what they're talking about. Well, my map is 15 years old in the last printing job,
>> the center town of district. >> No, no, no. Now I'm talking. Yeah, the planned unit residential, I think it was, didn't show up. >> It's cuz they didn't change the color. It's there, >> but >> Right. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. There's one of them that just it was the same color as another anyways. Um, and I think their thought is, um, hey, are we gonna finish in time or not? And >> yeah, >> um, I think as Tim said last week, I had
no clue there was this much coming up in zoning and it's like, >> yeah, >> so >> can we imagine M man, can we meet November 20th? >> That's what I was going to recommend. >> Keep it on Thursday, meet the 20th. >> Yeah, >> I'm okay with it, Ralph.
I I'll make whatever work. I I'll shoot an email around. >> Okay. So, I think we keep it the same day. We got a better chance of um making it happen. >> Mhm. [Applause] >> Okay. So, what do we say the next one was? 40712.
No, that goes with this. >> 416. >> 416. So, we have a new um bylaw that was adopted uh 414. We should probably take a look at um
>> I I may have a conflict on the 20th, but um >> I have a meeting at F a Zoom meeting at 5. >> So, if it ends in a reasonable period of time, I can get here. If it doesn't, I may be late to the meeting. >> Okay. Okay.
That's one I have to go to. >> Yeah, we have a we have a new transparency bylaw that was adopted. >> Um, >> but again, because we are looking at all of them and it is current, we should probably at least glance over it. Sounds good. >> I will entertain a motion to adjurnn.
>> Well, Josh, >> it's on the table. It's on the table. >> Take it off the table. >> It's It's all Yes. in favor. >> I oppose. No. No. >> We are journed at 7-Eleven. All right.