Okay. Good morning. Um, welcome to the Housing and Redevelopment Authority meeting of the city of Edina. Today is Thursday, September 25th. It is 7:33 a.m. and I will call the meeting to order. Um, uh, Executive Director Neil,
will you please take the roll call? Commissioner Risser here. Commissioner Pierce here. Commissioner Agnu here. Vice Chair Jackson here. And now it's time for the pledge of allegiance. I pledge algiance to the flag of the
United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. So, I forgot to say that we are continuing to hold these meetings in a
hybrid fashion. Um, today's meeting there will only be um time for public input for community comment. Um, and you are allowed to speak for up to three minutes about anything that is not on today's agenda or scheduled for a future public hearing. And that will come up pretty quickly here in our agenda. But
we need to approve our agenda. So, um, if we would, uh, anybody have anything they want to change on the agenda? So, I have a motion to approve the meeting agenda. So, move. I second. Right. Um, any further discussion? All
those in favor signify by saying I. I. Okay. We have an agenda. So, now, as I said, community comment comes up really quickly. Uh, we don't have anybody in the audience right now. Um, Director Benerat, uh, what's your protocol? I
don't have anyone online yet either, but because there is a slight delay in the broadcast, I recommend we wait about a minute before moving on. My clock shows that it's 7:36, so I will come back to you at 7:37 or when I have a caller, whichever's first. Terrific. Thank you.
It's been a minute and I still don't have any callers. Um I think we've given people adequate time to call in so I think it's safe to move forward with your agenda. Okay. Thank you. Um so Director Neil, this is when we respond to previous community comments. Were there any comments at our last meeting? We don't have any community comments
from our last meeting to respond to today. Okay. Thank you. So now we're to the consent agenda. Is there anybody who'd like to take things off the consent agenda? All right, we have a couple of matters. Um, do I have a motion to approve the consent agenda? So moved.
Second. Moved by Commissioner Agnu, a second by Commissioner Pierce. Any further discussion? All those in favor signify by saying I. I. All right, it passes. And we are on to today's um items. Our first item on the agenda is from our economic
development manager, Bill Nuendorf, and it's about a resolution amending a spending plan for uh three tip districts, the Southdale 2, Pentagon Park, and Wooddale Valley View. Um so hand it over to you, Dire Manager Newendorf.
Great. Thank you. Good morning. Uh yes, this first item is an action item. We are seeking your approval on resolution 2025-08 which of course is in your packet. Um I have prepared a um uh a PowerPoint presentation to review this. Uh we are
seeking to amend a spending plan uh that guides fund the use of funds from three uh existing uh tax increment financing districts. Um I'll go through this in a little bit more detail. Uh the spending plan was first created back in 2021. So
it's been a few years. Um and a lot of the information is the same. Um but I will call out the couple uh details that we're seeking to amend and update. Uh so first of all, as a reminder, uh this is the city's spark program. That's what we've been branding it as. And it uh uh
was born from special legislation passed by the state of Minnesota back in 2021. And that legislation allowed municipalities throughout Minnesota uh a new opportunity to invest their unallocated tax increment funds. So what
that means is some older tiff districts, some current tiff districts have funds that are collected. So these are taxes that have already been paid and they're collected uh in the tiff fund, but uh previous state laws prevented those monies from being spent. Um so this
special legislation gave cities uh a new opportunity to invest those dollars in their community. Uh earlier this year that in the 2025 legislative session, the state of Minnesota passed additional new legislation that would slightly modify
uh the terms of how those monies could be spent. Um so as background uh a few years ago the city did create what we're calling the spark program uh to use these unallocated monies. Uh we used funds
about 700,000 from the Pentagon park district. Uh about 8.5 million from our Southdale 2 TIF district which is now expired and about 350,000 from the old 70th and Cahill Wooddale uh tiff districts that are also expired. and uh
um that that created a total amount of about $9.5 million that we uh put into this unallocated fund to invest in new projects. Uh in a few minutes I'll go through how we've used those monies. Um but the the
new legislation allows us to use the interest earnings on those monies. before they were spent, they accumulated interest. But the previous tax laws did not allow those interest earnings to be spent. So, uh the new legislation re recognizes that uh interest was
accumulated. Uh today, we are looking at about $775,000 in interest earnings on those monies uh that at the moment is currently stranded in a way. Um, so if we do amend the spark plan, our total budget is about 10.3 million and so far we've we've
invested and spent about 9.2 of that. Um, the the use of the funds is fairly simplistic. Um, the tiff these are tax increment or tiff monies and they can be used to fill gaps in private development
projects. Um, just like tiff, they cannot be used for parks. They can't be used for for fire trucks or general uh municipal purposes. They have to be invested in brick andmortar capital and that can either be brand new construction or re rehabilitation uh
remodeling of a building. Um they can also be spent on some public improvements related to that private investment. For example, we did repair some sidewalks right in front of a business and it was a business's front door. They needed a sidewalk that wasn't cracked. that's an an eligible expense.
Um, and the state legislation allows these monies to be invested as either a grant, a loan, uh, also an an equity type investment. So, the state law is pretty flexible. Uh, and to date, how has Adina used
these funds? We've supported a number of projects that are that are uh, mostly completed. Uh our first project was the Adina Theater, getting that building back uh operational, getting it updated and restored. We also pledged funds to a new restaurant uh that is currently
under construction at 50th in France. That's that basement bar with a music theme. We also invested some funds with the Adina Innovation Lab run by our Chamber of Commerce. While that project is complete, earlier this year, we did uh
discuss that the the programming in that uh facility has been terminated for lack of operational funds, but those those dollars were invested. The building was finished. We've also invested quite a quite a bit into the Finch Apartments. Uh that project also included a brand
new public street. Um and so we use the uh the spark monies to to uh support the construction of that street. Uh we also invested money in the settings apartments. That's the new one under construction at 72nd in France. Uh and
also made a a pledge to the Enclave lifestyle communities project, the old Macy's furniture site. Um and those funds are pledged but they are not yet uh in uh expended. And then the last way we used them was uh in creating a streamline grant program which provides
capital support for small business. Uh and so far we've uh we've used funds for one new cafe uh up at 44th in France. Uh and I do have a n number of other small businesses that are uh interested in the interested in the program if it can be
amended and and uh if if we do extend the use of the program. So so far we've used like I mentioned about nine about 9.2 million we've either used or pledged out of the 9.5 total. So there's still a little bit left.
So the amendment has to has to do with when the funds can be used. The initial legislation uh required that the program come to conclusion at the end of this year uh December 31st, 2025. Uh the the new state legislation extended that date
by one year. Um so that would push uh the use of the funds uh to be con to be concluded by the end of 2026. uh the um uh that it's a minor it's a minor
change but as I mentioned I have a number of smaller businesses that are ready uh to move forward if those funds can be expended considering that it's almost October they're not going to finish by this year so certainly extending this program one more year uh
is is certainly recommended by myself of course there's a process to do this and the process begins here with the HR uh and passing this resolution. What this resolution then does then does is set in motion a public hearing to be held in October and then bring it
forward to the city council for final consideration in early November. So today is just the first step in this process. Uh if you approve this resolution today, you will hear about this again uh on at least two future occasions. Uh I also wanted to put a slide uh in
here about what if we don't do this? what if we decide just to let the program expire and and leave some funds in there? So, that certainly is an option for us. Um, if we if we decide not to amend the spending plan, uh there's about $900,000 uh in funds that are uh that would be
unspent. Um what the process would be would be to uh at the end of the year, early next spring, we would take those leftovers monies and return them to Henipin County. They would then redistribute those not to individ individual taxpayers but to the tax
taxing agencies. So the city would receive about a third, the county would keep about a third and then eventually the remaining third would find its way to the state. Um so uh that's what would happen if we did not uh amend the plan.
Certainly my recommendation is to have those tax dollars that were earned in Adina, collected in Adina, um returned to Adina to help our community. Nothing against the county or the state, but these are local tax dollars that I feel
are best expended here in our community. So, if we do extend the program, I would recommend re uh retaining the same process as we've used the last couple years when it comes to deciding how to use those monies. Um, it's not purely a
staff decision, but even even that streamlined grant program, I'll work with the with the original business owner, put their proposal together, review it, and vet it, but then bring it forward to this body and have you approve those contracts, whether it's a
grant or a loan. Um, so that process would would remain the same. We do require a local match. It's not just uh free funds. It is intended to fill a gap and to see to see that project move forward. And of course the the burden of actually building it,
hiring the contractor, hiring the architects, complying with all the applicable laws. We keep that in the hands of the private owner. Uh what all we're trying to do here is provide them a little bit of capital to give them that push to get the project uh over the finish line and get it built. So that
full uh that that full process would remain the same. And the types of projects that we'll be considering are also the same. There's no change there. We'd be looking at renovation of vacant commercial buildings or vacant tenant spaces that would allow new businesses
to come to our community or existing businesses to expand. Uh, also eligible would be construction of new facilities, whether that be a commercial business or even a multif family home or a multifamily project. That's also eligible. And then of course um we still
would be able to make some minor improvements to public roadways, parking, sidewalks, uh those public elements that are directly related to the business if that's necessary. That's that remains an eligible expense. Um but just to be to be um frank about it, the
focus here is getting these new businesses up and running. So in in summary, um this uh initial step spending plan goes back to 2021. Uh based on this new state legislation that passed this year, we do have the ability
to ex to extend that program by one year and increase the budget to a to a small degree. Um uh based on my my conversations conversations with the businesses in the area, this is a program that would be helpful to our businesses to really fill
those vacant uh spaces and allow job creation in Adina. So I I certainly do recommend that this resolution be approved. I turn it back to you, Madam Chair, uh for any discussion or any questions. Okay. Do we have any questions? So I've got mold do uh Commissioner Agne first.
Thank you. Good morning. Um thank you for being here today. Um, so I have a couple of questions. Um, so for the interest in particular, what happens if we can't spend that? Does that also get returned or do we have to do something else because it's interest?
Um, a great question. So my understanding is that interest earnings on TIF dollars uh need to be included in the, you know, they're retained in that tiff district. So if we don't invest them in this program, they would go back
to the old tiff districts. Since those are descertified, they would then be returned back to the county for distribution. Okay. So they would follow kind of that 1/3 model. Correct. Okay. Thank you. Um I also wanted to to kind of just trace this through um to make sure that
I'm following it. Um so really what we're talking about here is this newly created spark program um and the the associated kind of funding plan with it. There's the 10 almost three 10.3 million um total. We've previously pre pledged
the 9.4, but because of the timing of everything, even though we've pledged that amount, we wouldn't necessarily be able to meet all of those pledges if we don't extend this timeline to do to give additional
time for those projects to get underway and see completion. Is that correct? That's exactly correct. Okay. So, there's both the let's stick to the obligations or the commitments that we've already made of here's the pledges, let's do that full 9.4.
And because we now have this new interest that we're able to actually recognize and potentially use, um the 775 plus some additional residue, 900,000 could also be used now over the next yearish um for some smaller
additional projects. Is that correct? Also very correct. Okay. Thank you very much. Um I think that's the only clarity I wanted. Thank you. Thank you, Commissioner Agnu. And then Commissioner Rouser, could we go back to the image that showed the projects that have been funded?
And I do have concerns about TIFF being used on top of TIFF and that happened with the settings. Um, it happened with the Macy's site. And so question, when this legislation was created back in 2021,
was there nothing in it that said you can't give spark funds to an extent tiff district? It seems like double dipping. Um there was nothing in the state legislation that addressed anything like
that. The whole purpose of that legislation was to invest in businesses for for job creation, whether it be construction jobs or permanent jobs. Um, and when we when we pledged TIFF to the 7200 project and the Enclave,
um, when we when we pledged TIFF and Spark, it was Spark in lie of TIFF. So for every dollar of Spark money that goes into the project, that'll be one less dollar of TIFF money that goes to it. So it's not layered on top. It's it's a replacement.
So we will be getting $4.8 million back from the TIFF funds from and it's over $4.8 million. When will that 4.8 million end up coming back to us and could we get it? I'm very concerned about that in part because it financed very small
rental units and it's possible those 15 very small rental units might even be reduced to 13 or whatever. We don't really have any control over that. Um and by we I mean H and city council. Uh,
and you know, there was an article in the paper yesterday about small rental units really being um naturally occurring affordable rentals. And I really feel like we spent 4.8 million on something that does not bring much
public benefit. And I would love to see those dollars go back to the county. I would, you know, we're looking at an 11.03% 03% um levy increase and you know with that and actually I'm a little disappointed
because I I thought it when I looked at this really quickly I was thinking oh we've got nine million dollars that could go back to the county but that's not what we have but as we look at this list of things we've invested in um it's
just very disconcerting. The other thing, the innovation lab, it didn't succeed. It involved moving to another building. It involved our lodging tax revenue compensating for the rent that the innovation lab was supposed to pay. And
so I I'm looking at this list and I'm looking at TIFF financing in general and I can't help but think about how, you know, we really need to be analyzing these tiff investments
and keeping in mind the impact on the levy, you know, because if if the money had gone back, it we'd be looking at a very different um level of increasing the property tax levy. So, I I am very
concerned about this. I also I have no idea. Well, I did see three um potential investments with the leftover funds, but um and one is the ebuilding, so putting more tiff into
that, and that was the innovation lab investment. So, I I feel like I need a lot more information before I can approve this. I realize, you know, in the grand scheme of things, we're not talking about a huge amount of money, but um this is for me really troubling.
So, I I did want to say that. Thank you. I I just uh I I will recognize you, Commissioner Pierce. I just want to say what we're approving today. Um when you say you want more information is to move this to the city council to allow a public hearing. And I I just want to put
that out there that that will give us the opportunity to hear from the community and that's another source of information besides um manager newendorf if it if we move forward. Right. And I have thought about that and um for me I feel like this needs to stop
now. Um I feel as so strongly about how tip dollars have been invested that I think it would be good to just stop and but I hear your point. Um and so I just want to let people know where I'm coming from. Okay. Thank you, Commissioner Pierce. Um, thanks, Madame Chair.
So, I my two questions I think um are really tangental to uh Commissioner Agnu's questions, but if you could go through and just explain pled, you use three terms. You pledged,
spent, and allocated. And so with those three terms, what's the impact at the end of 2026 of funds that are pledged
but not spent, you know, funds that are spent, I think, is is pretty clear. And then you also mentioned allocated. Sure. So I've used the terms allocated and pledged to be interchangeable. So apologize for any confusion there, but there's not intended to be any
difference. Okay. Um, whenever the city and HA uses TIFF monies, uh, we pledge them, uh, and require the developer to do the work first. I can't think of an occasion
where we would would have prepaid uh, the developer. So, um, once we pledge that, those monies are uh, removed from our budget as available because they've already been pledged. Um, a good example might be the Finch
project. So, that project uh was approved, I believe, in 2022 or 2023. We pledge those monies. Then it took the developer another 6 months to finish the financing for the project. Then it took them 18 months to build the
project. And now it's still taking them another six months to do all the paperwork after they've opened it up. So, um, we've not, uh, well, actually, take that back. We um we did uh we just paid them the money. So we pledged it
back in 2022 2023. It was kind of in limbo for several years and we just wrote them the check uh in the last 60 days. Um I don't remember exa exactly when that was. So um that's my intention is in our internal um uh uh paperwork.
We just don't want to commit those monies twice. Uh so that's why I use the term pledge. Okay. Um and so then a followup to that. So then projects where we have pledged um if if this gets approved then we're
extending the time frame by another calendar year. Um, at the end of that, if those projects are still not completed, then those dollars would then go back to the county or what would happen with those dollars
that are pledged? Yeah. Yeah. So, they don't automatically go back, but if the if the monies are pledged, and I like using real examples just helps me think better. So, um, a few years we pledged, um, a small grant
to, uh, the music facility, the restaurant on on Fran on 50th Street. Um, it's taken a long time for that project to come together. Uh, it's under construction. They they broke ground by the deadline, but in our contract for
those projects, we have defined dates to start the project, to um to invest the monies, and then to finish the project. So, if they don't spend the monies in time or don't finish the project in time, what we would then do is go back to our contract um and declare them a
default and nullify any payment on that. Um and so those pledge monies would then become available, I suppose. But if we reach that deadline of the end of this year, yeah, um we will not have an opportunity to invest those monies again. Uh it's not
an automatic return to the county. I believe we have 90 days. Okay. And so then there's that begins an internal process through our finance department working with our finance advisor to make sure that we've got the right uh amount and then file the right paperwork and get it to the right people
at the right time. Um so there is a whole sequence and whole process there. Okay. Um but at the end of the day it's it's really funds that are spent projects that are completed. Correct. Those kind of come off the the scale if you will.
Correct. Everything else is kind of pending a particular process. Correct. Correct. The another way to to another example would be the Enclave project. We've pledged monies, spark monies in lie of TIFF monies for some of their expenses. Um,
so far that project is moving slower than than everybody had hoped. Uh, there's they met some big goals. The furniture store is relocated. Um, but if they don't do it in time, we will not pay them. Period. And then my last question, um, and this
is probably a little bit more complicated, um, but the process of the money going back to the county, and you roughly said a third, a third, a third would come back. And so with that, I had kind of two questions. one, if
that money does come back, um, are the restrictions of how it gets used different than what they are in the SPARK program? Uh, yes, the restrictions are different. So, if we do return monies to the
county, um, we follow this the state law. So the monies go back to the county treasurer and then the treasur follows the state law and returns them to the taxing agencies. They would be received by us as a check made out to the city of
Adina to use in an unrestricted fashion. Well, it's unrestricted when it comes back. Yeah. So TIFF dollars are restricted restricted to infrastructure for the most part, roads, bridges, private projects, parking, etc. Um, but if the monies are returned, we could use it for
anything within the city budget. Um, and that would be really a decision by you all as far as how to use those monies. Okay. Thank you. Um, golly, that's a lot to that was those are very good questions. Now I have all
these follow-ups. Um, one thing you didn't mention is money going back to the schools. Can you please review when there if the money goes back to the county for reallocation? uh why that why you did not include the schools in that list. Sure. Um
so while the schools are one of the largest uh taxing agencies in our in our community um the way the state laws work um when the monies are returned to the county um there's a brief period where the money return where the county returns
about a third to the school district but then the next year the state recognizes that the school district got more money so the state holds back the same amount from the school and retains it in the state budget. So, there is a a one-year period where the monies are
there, but then they're then they're removed. Um, I don't understand the logic in all that other than that's how the state law works in Minnesota. Um, so if there are, let's call it excess monies if we do return them. Um, the ultimate beneficiary um is the county,
the city, and the state, not the school district. Okay. Thank you for that clarification. Um, any follow-up questions? Yes, Commissioner Risser, it would be really helpful if we could see how much money um is under pending status and I can't remember how much was
going to the Macy's site project. Um sure, I uh I don't have the precise number, but the um the restaurant on 50th Street, while it's under construction, they they're not finished
yet. So, um, that was 225,000. Okay. Um, the pledge to, uh, Enclave, I believe, is going to be zero. Um, we had pledged the available monies because we thought
we had the deadline this year. We pledged them to to either the settings apartment or to enclave, whichever move forward fastest. the setting is under construction so and they're incurring costs. So I don't recall that any monies
would be available for Enclave. I think we've invested them all at this point. And with that streamlined grant program, I believe we have about $150,000 left, maybe a little bit less. Okay. So not a lot to go back. Not not a lot. Can you elaborate more on that 4.8? I
I'm still confused about okay, that's going to come back at some point and then it could go back to the county. Can you explain a little bit more how that process works and when that money would become available to go back to the county?
Sure, happy to address that. It's not related to this request at all tonight, but um with the tiff district at 72nd or 7200 France um uh we ple as a community we pledge the
use of spark in lie of tiff dollars to the apartment. So the tiff district itself is going to run for 25 years I believe. Um, so those tax dollars will still be collected. The property owner still has to pay their taxes. That
doesn't go away. Um, but at at this point, you know, the the taxes that they pay will be used to pay for other obligations in that area. We've made a pledge to the to the rest of the site to to build out all the public spaces on
the rest of that site. uh we're considering some some type of improvement possibly uh to cross the road whether it's a surface improvement and under the road over the road that's a possibility. So the actual you've you've posited that the funds might be
returned um I would um I guess I guess my best estimate is the return of those funds could be considered in about 25 years. Okay. So there's no potential for tax relief this year or anytime soon like 25
a quarter of a century maybe. Okay, thank you. Yeah, correct. It's a those decisions are in the future. Um I mean the they we've not even be yet begun to collect tiff monies from that district. So we
still have to collect them before we can return anything. Okay. And if before the next meeting, and I know this is sort of tangential, but I think it is really key for people to understand the way TIFF is being used. If we could have more information about the affordable apartment units
that we're getting in the setting, including the size, the number, all of that, that would be really great. Thank you. Sure. We'll see what we can do. I believe that was all included in the planning commission packet and the city council when the project was approved. Um, and there is the contract that binds
the developer to build whatever was approved, but we're happy to get that for you. Okay. Any other? Yes, Commissioner Agnu. Okay. So, one one last question then because we are talking we've had a couple of questions about the
preliminary levy that we just approved last week or the week before time. Um, so if we didn't move forward and there were the 900,000 redistributed, one-third came to the city, would that or could that have any
impact on our preliminary levy for the 2026 calendar year or would that have to be a 2027 impacting amount? I believe we would maybe there's a two-part answer. Um, I believe the city
would return would retain would see those funds in hand sometime late in 2026. So, I don't know what that means for a budget modifications, but So, right. So, it wouldn't we wouldn't be able to count on it when we're making
a decision about setting that levy, but we may be able to count on receiving it in 2026, certainly for 2027. So, it would have no impact on the the levy that we approve for 2026.
It might cause there to be additional residual monies at the end of the year that we could determine That's right. on how to allocate and potentially impact 2027, but there would be no impact to the percentage that we're approving in the coming months.
Right. Because you you those those decisions aren't synced up very well. and the decision on final levy is going to be made at either the first meeting in December or the second meeting in December. But either way, you're not going to know the answer to the the big question before you have to make that
decision. And then let's assume well for this question, we approve this new spending plan. We had the 900,000 to allocate towards other projects. What will be the process for any of those projects that
we're evaluating? I assume that they come back to us. We have a public hearing. We continue to have that dialogue. But if you could walk through us again that process for any future projects. Sure. Sure. Uh we're recommending that we use the same process that we have been using the last few years. So how it
uh typically has worked is either myself or other colleagues on staff will start the conversation uh in response to the to the business request. um will vet their application, review their actual need, review their project, make sure that it complies. Um for the streamlined
grant program, we've had our city attorney prepare um a template contract that we use. So we try to keep that one simple. It's that's that's why we call it streamlined. Um so we use the same template, fill in the blanks with a different project description, eligible
expenses, um but then bring that back to you for your formal consideration. uh and any any larger pledge um we we would prepare a contract specifically for that project um to make sure that we're
covering all the bases and making sure that everyone's needs are met including the community's needs and again bring that to you for your full consideration and remind me do we do a public hearing for those or no? Uh no public the public hearing is
required to approve the spending plan. Um, but the approval of specific contracts does not require a public hearing. It simply requires that it occur at a public meeting. Commissioner Pierce,
just one request. So, um, assuming that this goes forward when you present to council, um, and you you covered this in your when you talk through it, um, but on the background slide three, um, we have
original total pledged is 9.5 million, but then you kind of spoke to what was spent already. I just wouldn't I don't I'd like to see the the spent number. Um, so that nobody gets the idea that we
could if we did not approve this, we would get $3 million back potentially from the county because this kind of says we've got 9 million pledged. Sure. Happy to do that. So, but you did verbalize it. Just would like to see it on the slide. Thank you.
Thank you, Commissioner Risser. And I really appreciate what Commissioner Pierce just said and I think that really is very confusing and um so anything you can do to clarify that that is not the case would be much appreciated. The
other thing I do really appreciate Commissioner Agnu's um question about public hearings and tiff money and there aren't public hearings and I did just watch the I think it was um the June 24th 2021 um H meeting where funds were
allocated for the pedestrian bridge and just seeing our process for spending tiff money. Uh I feel like our process is not necessarily rigorous enough and it is very concerning to see just how
fast um monies can be allocated at a single meeting and there's pressure and there's time and in that case the decision had to be made that day because the next day was the deadline um that had to be met otherwise the money would have to be returned. So um I I really do
think as we move forward and I understand this is one ask but we really need to review how we are investing tiff including the process and including you know how projects get vetted um and including lack of public input because
that is very much something that is part of the tiff process. Um you can't you don't have a public hearing when it comes to the actual tiff spending for the specific projects. Thank you. So I'd like to just clarify those were excess tiff dollars and that's what
we're talking about today or excess tiff for creation of a tiff district and spending on a particular project. We have an extensive project pro process where I believe it starts here and then it goes to the city count. We have do we have a public hearing even here or we do we have two public hearings or and then
there's also the planning commission. So we start here and then tell us the the process for a tiff project. this these are excess tiff dollars but initially when we're creating the tiff and deciding how to spend it what's the process sure the state law uh does mandate a
process that is confusing so it makes makes a lot of sense um that there's questions about it uh and while not relevant to this resolution this morning uh when a tiff district is created and the budget is created for that district
there's a whole sequence of actions and events that happens uh visits to the planning commission uh visit to the to this board, the H. Uh as public meetings, uh input in community comment and other sources is
always welcomed. Um but then a public hearing is held at the city council. Um so we put it on the better together. We invite comment online, on the telephone, via email, in person. Um, and then through our through the city's typical
protocol, we hold the public hearing, keep the public comment period open for another week or two, depending on on the calendar, and then the city council makes that decision at a public meeting. But there is one public hearing for the TIFF. Uh, and that is regarding the
entire budget. the the actual individual spending out of that TIFF budget then is still brought to the HA and the city council at a public meeting but without a public hearing. So the the state protocol as
well as the city's protocol uh requires that all those activities happen at a public meeting but does not require an an additional public hearing on every expenditure. Thank you. And then what we're talking about today are funds that were
collected in excess of the original plan. The state said we don't know the impact of the shutdown related to COVID. We are going to give cities the opportunity to take these monies that they have in tip districts and apply it to economic development so that uh the
impact felt to our economies based on the shutdown and the disruption of of the co uh pandemic we would have extra money in order to stabilize our economy. And so that's why it's very limited on what we can spend it on. And the
question is whether we as a city want to take advantage of this program that the city the state has given us and now given us the opportunity to um extend. Is that correct? That's correct. And then today's vote isn't a final vote. It's a vote to trigger a public
hearing at the city council level. Correct. That's also correct. Okay. So those are my questions. Any other comments from people? Okay. I will entertain a motion to approve resolution 25-08 amending a spending plan for the
Southdale 2 Pentagon Park and Wooddale Valley View tax increment financing districts. Do we have a motion to that effect? So moved. Second. Moved by Commissioner Agnu, second by Commissioner Pierce. Any further discussion? All those in favor signify by saying I. I.
I. Those opposed? Nay. Okay, we It is passed. Thank you. And then we've got another item. And is this under the executive director? Is it u Are you going to lead this, director, Neil? It it is, but I'm deferring this one to Bill. And we've had a uh we've had a
brief discussion about kind of toning this down a little bit in terms of of what we're trying to accomplish today. And and I just want to let you know that. Yes. Thank you. So, it's my understanding that we're going to have as a commission a work session on um how
we use to tax increment financing to achieve community goals. A big broad overall look at our policy. Um and but today is we have anformational only kind of presentation and that the discussion will be in a work session at a further date. Is that correct?
That's correct. Yes. Okay. Well, then manager newendorf here we go with your next presentation. All right. Uh so you may remember uh earlier this year uh we uh gave a little warning that uh over the last several months in 2024 uh you collectively had
asked some questions about the use of tax increment financing and wanted an opportunity to discuss some of those items. Um so in the spring we brought this back to you uh to try to schedule it get any additional questions. Um, so what I'll do this morning is run through the questions that we've received and um
don't have any final uh conclusions. Uh, but we do have some options for you to to think about. Um, so I'll run through that this morning. Uh, happy to answer any questions. Um, and we're also happy to schedule a discussion um, at a future
meeting wherever it fits into our calendar. So, none of these items are urgent or groundbreaking, but we want to make sure that we're responsive to your questions. Um, and I've titled this discussion about how Adina has used tax increment financing to achieve community
goals. Uh, Adina has used uh tiff since the early 1970s. We've delivered a lot of amazing improvements to the community um for the community. Sometimes those projects are led by the city, sometimes they're led by private developers. Depends on the times and the
opportunity. Uh but we do keep the community interest in mind whenever we use these. So this morning briefly, I'll go through our background. I'll go through our tiff policy that was most updated a few years ago and then get into those five discussion topics.
Uh so currently Adina has a dozen different tax increment financing districts. They're scattered throughout our community. Uh always in commercial or industrial areas. As a typical habit, we really don't use tax increment in individual residential neighborhoods,
but focus on those commercial and industrial properties that see um uh more challenges. Uh for many years, uh Adina operated with a very simple tiff policy. It was uh less than less than a page, but it
we're always guided by state law. That's that's the biggest, you know, the biggest uh policy out there. It's mandatory. Um but I believe in 2010 or 2011, Adina added our own tiff policy which basically just reiterated some of those highlights of things we' done for
the last 30 years, some of the best practices. In 2022, based on direction from this group, uh we were uh uh advised to redo that policy to be a little bit more thoughtful, intentional, and focused. So, in 2022, we completely
rewrote the policy, still retaining all of the best practices that we've always been using, but that TIFF policy expanded from half a page to 11 pages. Um, and what we wanted, one of our go biggest goals there was to put down in writing some of
the things that we do on every single project because there's always questions. So, um, staff knows the process we use, our adviserss and consultants know it, but we realize, you know, we never wrote it down. So, the general community might have no idea of all the things we do. So, that's what's
in that 2022 policy. Um, the state law, um, frankly, is a little bit more generous when it comes to TIFF than the than how Adina has used that. So, typically Adina puts, um, more
constraints on the use of TIFF. um than state law would allow. That's we've done that successfully and for intentional purposes. Um again, we're trying to re we're trying to deliver outcomes to the community that that will benefit the community for decades and generations.
Um let's see. So that's the tiff policy. So the the five discussion questions uh and I'll run through these and in fact I won't go won't go through them here but just get jump into the first one. uh is city policy driving the need to use tiff
more frequently? So in looking at our past several pro uh TIFF funded projects uh there's a number of themes that that uh arise um and these are hurdles that private
developers see in their projects um and these hurdles have gotten higher in since co um the cost of materials the availability of labor um taxes regulations like they've gotten increasingly
more difficult So uh in Adina we are also stymied by the high cost of land. Um even a vacant property in Adina will sell for millions. Other communities don't have that burden. Um but that is one of the
biggest challenges to development in Adina is getting the land and then getting it together at a price that's manageable. Uh material costs, financing costs. Um, right now the capital markets are very
slow to finance big projects. Um, uh, if you look around the metro area, you'll notice that there's not very many big cranes out on job sites these days. The capital markets have really slowed down. We're experiencing that in Adina as well. And um you know I I will say that
we are blessed because we will have three tower cranes here and hopefully a fourth soon with an off two office buildings and apartment um under construction in the last couple months and more coming hopefully. Um but those capital markets are really delaying new
projects. Also in Adina one of our biggest challenges to uh to delivery is um the phase delivery on these large properties. The Macy's furniture site is a great example. Um,
in order to build the last, there's four phases in that project as you might remember. In order to build the last one, you've got to build the first three. In order to build the first one, you have to build all the infrastructure and incur all the costs that won't actually be paid back until the fourth
one is built in the future. And so, it adds a huge financing burden to the developer. That's um again just kind of the the challenge of of development these days. We also see hurdles in demolition costs of old buildings.
Sometimes some of the properties in Adina and elsewhere have environmental contamination. That's a big burden costwise. Some of our sites, I'll pick on the Macy's furniture site, they don't have modern utilities. They don't have modern amenities. Basic things like a
sidewalk. Um and all those things cost money. Um the the second biggest b hurdle today in construction is the cost of structured parking. So especially in a commercial building as a customer we typically expect and
demand free parking. Um but the cost to build a structured parking stall can easily get to $50,000 for one stall. Where does that money come from? So I mean that's that's the challenge of the of the developer. There are two other
hurdles that are related to city policy. Um, and those are the last ones on the list. There is a high cost of our regulatory compliance and our entitlement process here in Adina with our zoning code. We do the multi-step,
the sketch plan, the preliminary, the final, we do public hearings, multiple of those. It can take months and months. That all costs a developer time, which is money. So that is something it's a process we've created. We tend to like
how that works. We like to scrutinize the projects. It does add cost and risk to the project. Um, and then another city policy that adds a lot of uh uh hurdle is our affordable housing policy where we ask the developers to build a
certain percentage of the units at the same price as every other unit they're building and then rent it for half of that price or whatever the precise number is. So that puts a huge drag on their project. But again, as a community, we've established a policy
that says if the developer is going to build luxury or market rate housing, we expect that people that are not luxury apartment income can still live in our community. So, that's a choice we've made. Um, but I would say of all the 11
major cost factors that are hindering development, um, the city is involved in two of those. um we could change our policies, we could change our process that would help the overall development picture, but it doesn't eliminate all those other nine hurdles that we have
zero control over. Um the second item uh is regarding our process and I can condense that to a question of whether or not there's a preferred order and timing when we consider the use of tiff.
So I've got a couple slides. I'm going to just start with start with one and then I'll I'll jump to the conclusion. Uh but in the yellow box, a reminder that our current policy requires that zoning consideration and financing consideration be kept in two separate
lanes. Um when as a city council or as a planning commission when they make a decision about zoning, they're prohibited by state law to consider the financing implications of those zoning decisions. So how we apply that here in
Adina is to keep those two conversations separate. Um so that uh uh just to prevent any shortcircuiting where a comment is made in the zoning conversation about well I don't like the cost. I'm not going to approve the zoning. That's a good way to get the
city in some legal trouble. So we keep those two conversations separate and we'd recommend that we continue those continue to keep those separate. But the timing um can certainly be um can certainly be adjusted. The second thing
that we do currently uh is the order of the project is to have the preliminary zoning go first and if the preliminary zoning gets approved, if there's actually a project to talk about, then we talk about the financing second. Um,
and we've we've chosen that process just out of a smart use of city resources. Our thought process has been if a if a zoning request is too big or not enough or, you know, doesn't pass muster from the zoning perspective, why spend weeks
and months and thousands of dollars of time on a financing request that might be moot. Um, so we've we've structured the financing conversation after the zoning. Those are choices we made and those are
the choices we can change. So let me jump ahead to kind of a summary. So this is our current process. When it comes to a development project, we first look at the sketch plan um through the planning commission and the city council. Then it
goes step 2A is the preliminary zoning planning commission and city council. If that's successful, we jump to the HRA and talk about financing. We put together a very detailed term sheet so that we know exactly what we're getting into. Um, and then step three is once
the developer knows that they've got their zoning, that they've got a an ability, a pathway for city financing to help out f to help fill in their gaps, then they really go go beg and spend all their money on the construction plans, the the site work, all the
environmental. They get their full uh financing packages together and then they come back to the city council for step 3A, which is to get that final zoning um uh finished. And then usually the same meeting or maybe the next meeting, we'll come in with 3B and do
their full TIFF financing agreement. That's our current process. If uh if we think there's a better way to do it, this would be our suggested process. start with a sketch plan just like we do today, but flip-flop the
discussion of TIFF financing with the preliminary zoning. Um what we currently do is as the project comes in for zoning um I work handinand uh or Stephanie Hawinson depending on who's managing the
project will work handinand with Carrie and with the developer um because we know that in our TIF policy we have certain expectations if we're going to use tiff we expect them to meet our sustainable building policy we expect them to meet our affordable housing
there's a whole number of other goals and guidelines So if they're going to need TIFF, we make sure that they've satisfied all of our goals. So while that's how it happens today, but we could certainly flip the order so that they come in a sketch plan, they get some general
direction, they seem that seems like it goes well. We could come to the H first with a very rough um term sheet knowing that they've got a financial gap. we wouldn't know what it is yet, but we knew that there'd
be something. Um, the reason we don't know the gap is they haven't gotten their zoning. So, maybe the zoning allows six stories or maybe it allows four stories. We don't that can make a huge difference, but usually you're going to know when there's a gap. Um, when the land cost is too high, when
there's a lot of environmental impact, when the market costs are just through the roof or financing costs. So, we can make some predictions, but they'd be rough. we wouldn't have the precise numbers, but we could easily flip those conversations, come to H first and just
see, is there any interest? If there's no appetite, I'd recommend we tell that to the developer upfront so they don't waste their time or our time, frankly. Um, if there is some interest, we'd want to keep want to have them keep going. They would then go to step 2B and go
through preliminary zoning. They then they'd go through three 3A and the final zoning. and we'd still conclude with the last step and have the full tiff agreement at the very end. The key difference in this process is that in the beginning we would have to become
become comfortable with approving a term sheet that has a dollar amount that's a fill-in- thelank and a time period that's a fill in the blank. We would fill all those in. I'm not saying we would not, but we would not know that
precise amount until the very end. Um, so that's that's a difference. And then an alternative process, a way to really shake things up is to try to do it all at once. Start with our sketch plan and then at preliminary zoning the same day,
have the city council take action on the TIFF financing and the zoning at the same meeting on the same day. They'd be two separate motions. Um, it's possible. Um, I don't recommend this. It could be
a huge cost burden for the city, a huge cost burden for the developer, and it might invite um the city council to interject financing decisions with zoning decisions, which are clearly prohibited by state law. Um, so that'd be the alternative. Don't recommend it.
Um, but we could easily flip-flop uh the convers the timing of the conversations about the use of TIFF. Um, so something to think about for future discussion. Um the third third question is about Adina's budget pillars and our budget
values. You recall most recently when we considering considered selling property the old public works site we looked at those pillars and values. Um we could and should also consider how those apply to the use of tiff. Um, I think this is
a deeper dive because at our budget pillars, it's looking at a strong uh foundation for the community, reliable services, building a livable si city, and doing it in a in a way that we're better together. Um, how you apply that to TIFF could be a whole another
workshop. Um, but as as staff puts together proposals and works with developers, just so you know, we do look at those values. We look at those pillars again to achieve the goals as have as have been defined in our plans,
our policies and your direction. And the same with our values about how we use those monies um for stewardship, you know, we ask is tiff investment um is it best in a particular type of project? Right now we use it for private and p
public for housing and for residential and for infrastructure. If you want to change any of that, we certainly could. Um, for equity, we want to look at how how can TIFF investments be used to provide equitable outcomes for more people. Um, for health and in all
policies, we look at how tiff can be used to promote that overall well-being, whether it's providing a sidewalk or providing a new social opportunity um or providing a new grocery store to get healthier vegetables to people. Lot lots of different ways that tiff can trickle
down. um to to our real real world. Um but with the values and pillars, I wanted to just put this up here and start that conversation. We are trying to incorporate these values and pillar pillars into more and more of our decision- making. Um uh so that's an
option for future discussion as well. The fourth question uh comes up regarding the specific types of costs that this group is comfortable using tiff for. In the last year or so, we've had a lot of conversations, right? A lot
of discussions with this body or the city council, and I've heard comments like, well, I like the project. I'm I can deal with TIFF, but I really don't want to use it to pay for for this one discreet little item. And then someone else will say, I like the project. I can
somehow get comfortable with TIFF. In fact, I think TIFF is a good thing, but I really don't want to use it for that thing. Um, we can certainly decide with your direction if we should exclude any of these costs. Um, I would just offer a
bit of caution in in that every project is different and unique. And so if you set a policy saying we're never going to use it for parking, you might get a project the next month that if parking isn't somehow addressed, it'll die. So just a word of caution
there. We keep the flexibility for a reason. Um the two additional policies that Adina does apply um are on the right hand side here. Um the lefth hand box shows all the things all the categories that the state law allows
tiff to be used for. Uh on the right hand box, Adina's policy currently exempts two of those things. Um we typically do not allow tiff to be used for private parking. If it's the executive officers heated underground
garage, they should probably pay for that themselves. If it's on street parking for anybody that gets rainy and snowy, well, maybe we're comfortable with that, but we we don't use tiff for private parking. And then when we do use tiff, we always equate it to the value
of the public benefits that are being delivered. And that's been a foundational element of of a dina's policy since the 70s. That's something we really recommend we stick with. Um, but over the next couple weeks or months, certainly, you know, feel free uh to think about, you know, are there
any costs we should exclude or change? It's it's our policy. We can modify it. And then the last uh question comes from our our strategic use of TIFF. Um, currently our TIFF policy is performance-based.
So, we look at a project on a case-byase basis. Everyone has been different. I've been here 14 years. Everyone has been different. Um, so our our policy is written to be responsive to the needs of the project. Um, but it makes it challenging. You
know, when when when staff brings a presentation and proposal to this body and the council, it can be a tough decision. There's a lot out there. You know, staff invests dozens or hundreds of hours on some projects. So, we know it well. and then we ask you to make a decision in 90
minutes um based on lots of input. So in the last year it was uh the topic was brought up could we change that strategy to create tiff programs that are well defined with specific guard
rails and uh uh and goals. We certainly could um I've seen that in other communities. I've done it in other communities. So some of the types of programs we could could consider would be a specific program to use tiff for affordable housing. We could come up
with a specific program to use tiff for infrastructure, roads, bridges, retaining walls, pipes. We could use we could come up with a tiff program to incentivize development of a particular site. if there's some property in town that's just become a
drag on the community, we could come up with a program for that. Um, and then we I I would always suggest a tiff for other unique things because there's always things that don't fit in a box, but we certainly could go through the effort to create pre-established
programs. The thinking is that staff and our adviserss could vet the applications to make sure they comply with the program and bring it forward to you. Um, uh, it sounds great in theory, doesn't it? If it could be that simple. Um,
a couple of the challenges and some of the negative consequences of that though, I would want to raise to your attention. I mentioned I've been here 14 years. Every TIFF project project I've worked on has been different and unique. It's hard to put them in a box. Nothing in a
dinina is replicable. All of our commercial properties are a different size, a different shape, a different location with different problems and different opportunities. So that flexibility is a good thing. Um, so just be cautious that if we bring a if we bring a proposal to you following a
program, nine out of 10 of them are probably going to say it complies with the program except for these two or three things. So just a bit of caution there. Um, also when you create TIFF programs, in my experience, you get more TIFF
applications. When you declare, we're going to we've got a program. It's going to be TIFF for affordable housing, you're going to have a lot of developers coming in to build the project. Um, and they're all going to ask for TIFF because we have a program. Why would we not use it? Now,
if there's a community goal that we want to push affordable housing, I just picked the first one on the list. Maybe that's what we want. But if it's private development, just a caution, when I've created predefined TIFF programs in the work in other communities, every
developer that walks in the door finds a way to meet those program rules and says, "Hey, you've got a program. I've checked all these eight boxes. Let's see the contract." Um, so it takes away some of our our discretion. And it seems to be it illustrates the to the development
community that we are we want to participate whether they need it or not. We want to and I I don't know if that's the message we want to send. Um and then in some of these programs I found um we've had discussions about how much
tiff is the right amount and as a general rule someone once said 10%. No one can find out who said that or when they said it, but we've heard that from a number of consultants and advisers. Um, if we come up with a rule that says
we're going to cap TIFF contributions out at 10%. Expect every application to come in here at 9.9%. Whether they need 3% or 12%, they will come to that. So, that can be some of the negative consequences of these
programs. But that being said, there's no wrong way to do this. There's the Adina way. So, uh, for the last 50 years, we've used tax increment to fund a lot of amazing projects in town. Centennial Lakes Park, Edinburghough
Park, Grand View, 50th in France. On a number of occasions, we've used those in those areas. So if there if there are higher priorities and if there are some programs that we should establish to deliver what we want, we're happy to create those programs. Um and we'll
figure out a way to make sure that they're not gaming the system. Um but I just wanted to plant that seed and put that in your mind because uh TIFF can be an amazing financing tool to deliver what the community wants. So if we want to change our strategy, we're certainly
open to that conversation. Those are our five questions that I've received um over the last several months from you all. Um so uh happy to entertain any questions. I know we can I just wanted to get this started. We can have a conversation in the future, but
are there any questions before I wrap it up? So I want to just kind of limit to clarifying questions this morning. I'd like to have that discussion when our chair is here. So member Risser, you had a question. Um, can we include PUB and the of zoning in this analysis? Because
oftentimes there is a commitment made in the PUD zoning that does, you know, carry financial costs for the developer and there's the assumption that um that is part of the PUB agreement. And I think what we're missing from our
analysis is acknowledging the financial benefits a developer gets when say they're able to go from like with Maison Green it was a twotory limit and a four-story limit on that site and they got to go seven stories. So what is the
value of that? And then what is the you know what do we think we're getting for that? because then, you know, when we've seen this happen, we think we're getting something then, oh, we need TIFF money and so PUB has to be a part of this
analysis and I know we're kind of running past time. Um, the other comment I wanted to make is I am very open to taking another look at the the Grand View design guidelines and the costs or excuse me, the greater Southdale area design guidelines and the cost that
those impose on developers. And I do think, you know, that plan was a while ago. It pretty much put a grid on top of the Southdale area. Um, it's expensive. I question really the wisdom of dividing up our very few remaining larger lots.
So, there's there's a lot there that I think is problematic. Thank you. Any other Yes, Commissioner Agnu. Uh, and yes, it was on this page. So, thank you. Um, so you mentioned that if we were to kind of flip the preliminary
zoning with the term sheet approval that we would have some ambiguity in the exact numbers. Like talk me through how exactly that would work. Would would we be looking at maybe a range without the final numbers or what would we actually
be approving? Because I don't think we could approve something that's like question mark, right? Yeah, sure. Happy to address that. So, um, how I envision this is, um, well, the process is always iterative. So, when there's a TIFF
district, um, created, there's we always create financial projections of the future taxes that are going going to be created. Um, if a developer is is in for a request for either a four-story building or a six-story building, depends how zoning goes. I will ask our
adviser, run it both ways. What do the numbers look like? What happens if it's if it's at four? What happens if it's at six? Um, uh, and what we can then create is a pretty good estimate of the number of the amount of taxes collected based
on that project. Um, and that's regular taxes that go into everybody's general fund as well as the incremental taxes. So, we know what that maximum is going to be. What I would do is put a not to exceed amount of like 90% of that. You
know, I always want to error on our side. We always do that. Um we don't want to error to benefit the developer. We error to benefit the community. Um uh so while we would create a maximum amount, it all depends on what happens at the
zoning. Do they get the four stories or do they do they get the six stories? Do they get the this density or that density? do they have to do a public plaza or not? Um, so the actual commitment to them would be undefined, but I I could see my staff report saying
uh total amount not to exceed X for a certain type of cost, public parking, public spaces, public plazas, affordable housing, that kind that type of thing. So we would try to be as definitive as we could as far as the maximum dollar
amount and the types of expenses without having a precise amount in the early days and hopefully that would be some good comfort and that that's helpful and I mean maybe this can be a part of the discussion when we get further down but I'm just
curious if if you'll even know enough at that point to have the level of granularity that and not super granular but that we've benefited from before of seeing here are the six components of the project that are eligible for and are therefore
contributing to this total dollar amount because I know that that's what's led to some of the discussion of oh I don't want it for X or I don't want it for Y. Um, so maybe just something to reflect on of like how much information would we
be able to have. Um, and maybe even coming if as we have a discussion coming forward with an example of like this is how what we think we might know at that phase of the process or even having you know a sidebyside of like we might come to you for step 2A and have two
different options or two like uh two different points that create the spread of the range. Um that might be helpful. Thank you. All right. Uh Attorney Kendall. Madam Chair, I just wanted to make a quick comment about the interaction. Um
so the city council having approved a PUD zoning does not obligate the HA to grant TIFF. In order to meet the but for test, they do have to come in on a TIFF application and indicate that the project will not go forward but for TIFF. But that does not mean that the HA
is required to approve that TIFF. You can still have discretion to not approve that and then they can go back and look for more private financing or they can ask for amendment to their zoning. But the fact that the city council has approved PUB zoning does not obligate or
require the HA to grant TIFF. And the reverse would also be true. So, however, whatever order it's done, um, this body, whatever capacity you're acting in, just has to keep in mind that you have to apply the standard for whatever application is in front of you. So, if you're looking at a PUD, you apply the
standards for that. And if you're looking at TIF, you apply the standards for that. And you shouldn't feel obligated to grant TIFF because you approved a PUD as a city council. and vice versa, you shouldn't feel obligated to approve a PUD as a city council because you've made any preliminary
determinations on TIFF as the HR. So, um I think that always needs to be kept in mind as you approve or review these applications as two different bodies. Thank you very much. Thanks for that clarification. Um, I what I heard
Commissioner Risser say is that when we first heard about the South Deale guidelines in particular that it would create so much new value um by using the PUD process and we've we have not been getting um a quantification of the value
created by using PUD and I think that's what she's referencing not but and and thank you for that clarification. We they are two completely different decisions. the use of TIFF and the use of of PUD, but um folklore or uh common
understanding is that PUD does create value for the developer and I believe she's asking for is there a way to quantify what that value is. Yeah. And we'll certainly give that some thought. we we would have that value conversation as a HR because again and
correct me if I'm wrong uh city attorney Kendall. Um but I don't believe financial considerations can be included in your determination of whether or not to use PUD. So we'd have to have those conversations here. Um but we'll certainly give that some some thought
and see how we could address that. I think that's for our discussion as an HR about the policy not about any particular um program or uh project that's before us. That's my understanding member commissioner. Correct. Right. And the I think another
part of this is that we have such the tiff district is the PUD site is the site plan of the developer. We're doing we're not doing things like Centennial Lakes or you know I mean we are in the past when we referenced these really big
projects or much larger projects that had public um benefit that was a very different use of tiff than what we're seeing now where you know we're not talking about a tiff district for an area of France Avenue we're talking about France TIFF one two three and
those are all individual de developer projects um that get puds zoning and get tiff. And so, um, it's a very sticky situation, I think, in your comment about, um, I agree with what you said
about the greater Southdale area design guidelines and, you know, not really seeing what we were expecting to see. Um, it's not coming forward the way like Centennial Lakes did. But I think part of the problem and part of in terms of public transparency is really just
thinking about how much public benefit, you know, including the PUD benefit and the TIFF do these individual development sites get um which may have been what you were saying I was saying, but I just want to emphasize the point. We're these
are small little tiff districts. So I think what we want to do for purposes of our future discussion is have if there's um a way to find quantity that we could attribute to using the PUD a financial benefit that would be helpful. I think
we want to look at it in the abstract. And um let's see are there any other follow-up questions Commissioner Pierce? Okay. So do you have need any further clarification from us for setting up this discussion that we're going to have? No, not at this time. I'll do some homework on the PUD. I I will address
it. I'm not sure how yet, but give me a couple weeks. We'll figure that one out. Okay. Terrific. Thank you. Um, so that concludes that. Our our executive director stepped out for a second. Um, I will go to member comments and then we'll see if he has anything further. Any comments?
No. Nothing for me. Nothing from me. Okay. Member. Nothing for me. Okay. Terrific. Well, um I I'm going to assume we don't have any other executive director comments. So, I will entertain a motion to adjurnn. So, moved. Second.
Motion to adjourn by Commissioner Agnu, second by Commissioner Pierce. Any further discussion? All those Maybe I'll just add I believe um manager Neil had another meeting that started at 9. Okay. That presented. Yes. Thank you very much. I I appreciate that. Um so, with that, we will uh
adjourn the meeting. Thank you. At 8:54 a.m. Sorry. Yeah. Uh, all those in favor of adjourning. I I All right. Any opposed? We are adjourned at 8:54.