##VIDEO ID:aku-zP_1zfo## Welcome everybody to the  Wednesday, October 30th, 2024,  City v. Dina Planning  Commission meeting. I'll quote  a commissioner over here, uh,  yesterday 80, tomorrow snow,  nothing like Minnesota, right?  Anyways, hope everyone's doing  well tonight, um, on behalf of  the rest of the planning  commission, uh, we welcome you  whether you're tuning in  remotely or here in person. Uh,  your engagement, your feedback,  your curiosity, your  participation is vital as we  navigate change here together  in Edina, specifically  regarding the way in which we  would like to use our land. So  typical meeting agenda, we just  have one public hearing tonight. No reports and recommendations,  and I'll go through what to  expect when we get to the  public hearing portion, which  includes call-in number for  those who are tuning in  remotely. Uh, but you can just  hang tight for now. Uh, the  agenda will go as follows.  We'll do a call to order, roll  call, approval of tonight's  meeting agenda, followed by the  approval of the prior meeting's  minutes, then we'll do  community comment which similar  to a public hearing is your  chance for those who are here  in person to speak about  something not on tonight's  agenda. After that, we have the  public hearing, which is your  chance to speak about that  matter on tonight's agenda, and  since we have no reports and  recommendations, we'll go right  to staff and chair member  comments, followed by  adjournment, so without further  ado. Call this meeting to order. And then roll call.  Commissioner Elkyer. Here.  Commissioner Miranda,  Commissioner Padillo.  Commissioner Smith.  Commissioner Junkcas?  Commissioner Day, Commissioner  Bornstein, Commissioner Felt,  Commissioner Hanneman Chair  Bennett here as well. Just, you  know, it's Halloween, spooky.  OK, so, uh, we have the  approval of tonight's meeting  agenda. Any any takers on that  motion to approve the meeting  agenda. Second All those in  favor say aye aye. So moved.  Next we have the approval of  the prior meetings minutes from  October 16th. Motion to approve  prior meeting minutes. All  those in favor say aye, so  moved. All right, next we have  the community comment period,  as I mentioned, this is the  chance for anyone who's here,  they'd like to speak about any  matter that's not on tonight's  agenda. You have 3 minutes to  do so. You can come up to a  podium. Say your full name,  your address, and let us know  what we need to hear. Starting  now. Yeah, seeing no one, we  will close that portion of the  agenda tonight and on to our  public hearing. So with public  hearings like this one. Uh, the  typical process is, uh, an  applicant or development team  is proposes something  officially, formally to the  city, submitting an application  to do so. Staff puts together a  report based off of a variety  of findings, how it complies,  how it may not. With our  current laws. Staff repairs  this presentation for us. We  Exchange some questions,  answers, then we open it to the  applicant team to do the same  if they'd have their own  presentation and have another  exchange and then after that we  open it to a public hearing,  which is your chance to testify  about the matter. After which  we close that and we deliberate  as a planning commission and  make a recommendation for  approval or denial. So without  further ado, Carrie, take it  away. Thank you, Chair members  of the commission. Or of that  Project sites. Office and re  That OK, is that, yeah, that's  better. Ah, guided office  residential and it is a zoned  MDD 5 are mixed development  district. Here's a look at the  existing site, so it's the  existing, uh, Marriott  residence Inn connected to  Edinburgh Park. It's about a  little over 3.5 acres in size,  so the proposal is to Remodel  the existing building, um, it's  133 units into 136, uh,  apartments. So there'll be no  changes to the exterior of the  building, it would all be  remodeling. Within. Just a few  more. Pictures of the project.  Again, part of the Edinburgh  project. Development Look at  the existing site plan. Again,  no changes to the, the, the  parking field in front. The  applicant is proposing to, um,  add additional landscaping  along the, the street out front. Our city foresters reviewed  those and found those to be, uh, acceptable. So the request  before the planning commission  is a site plan review, and  that's due to the fact that  it's a change in use and this  requires a little more parking  than a hotel would. There's  also a variance requested  within our zoning code, we  require one enclosed parking  stall for each unit. This was  developed as a hotel, so  there's no existing, uh,  enclosed parking on the site.  So the variance is to have zero  enclosed parking stalls.  Looking at our pyramid of  discretion, we're up here with  the site plan, um, the site  plan review. This is, uh,  apartments, multi-residential  is a permitted use in the  district, but you do have some  discretion. With the requested  variants. So looking at the  site plan, again, all the the  building's existing, no changes  to the footprint, um. It's all  code compliant generally with  the exception of the east side  because it's connected to  Edinburgh Park again, this was  a, a master development plan.  Um The, uh, height overlay  district allows, allows, um,  Not 128 stories, 12 stories.  Apologize for the typo there.  And this project is well within  that at 7 stories and 66 ft.  Again, the variance is for, uh,  no enclosed parking. The  density here is 39 units per  acre, just looking at this site  within the overall, uh,  Edinburgh project. It's about  11 units an acre. So the  primary issue is the variants  for um for the enclosed parking  justified. Looking at our  variance criteria, um, the  variants would be in harmony  with the general purpose and  intent of the ordinance,  consistent with the  comprehensive plan and then  meet meet our, uh, practical  difficulty, uh, three-prong  test, um, the owner would  propose to use the property in  a reasonable manner, not  permitted by the, the zoning  ordinance. It's due to  circumstances that are unique  to the property, not created by  the landowner and wouldn't  alter the essential character.  Of the district. So staff does  believe that the variance  criteria is met. Again, it's  just a change of use, uh,  within the building. No  enclosed parking on the site.  Um, currently, The variants  wouldn't alter the character of  the district that that surface  parking lot would continue with  that beefed up landscaping out  front. The intent of the  regulation is to provide  adequate and safe on, uh,  off-street parking. The that is  code compliant. One thing I  didn't point out, I'm gonna go  back. Um, so there's a 180, uh,  185 parking stalls on this site  by code, they need 1070. Within  all of Centennial Lakes, the  Edinburgh project, there were  easements established over the  parking areas for access for  the public to use the park. So  there is an existing easement.  Over this area here, if  somebody wants to go and use  Edinburgh Park, they can park  there. There's no change  proposed to that easement, um,  the parking here would be on a  first come, first serve basis,  no assigned parking, um,  parking study was done and they  figured they needed about 100  parking stalls, our code  requires 170. So again, it is,  um, there will be adequate  parking. Um, having apartments  with no enclosed parking is not  uncommon in Dinah, Yorktown  Continental, Sunrise Senior,  Summer, uh, Summit Point, the  Heritage Walker Elder Suites,  and most recently 66 West.  Excuse me, are examples. Most  of those are senior projects,  uh, with the exception of the  Yorktown Continental. Um, the  use again is permitted, um,  SSTS traffic Solutions  conducted a traffic study, and  this, um, apartments generate  about half the number of trips,  um, compared to, comparing a  hotel to residential, so  there'd be no impact to, to the  traffic. So with that, I will  stop there. Staff is  recommending approval of the  site plan and the requested  variances that are variants  subject to the findings and  conditions in the staff report  and the is here as well to make  a presentation. Thank you,  Carrie. Any questions? OK. Just, um. On the point of other  apartments not having enclosed  parking. How did that come to  be? Were they, were they  established before the  ordinance? Yeah, that I don't  know there those are quite, um,  those are a lot of those with  the exception of 66 West, um,  predated me, so I don't know  the detail there with 66 West,  uh, that's a very small  apartment on, on 66th Street.  That was a conversion of a TCF  Bank building, and that's an  affordable housing project. Um,  so no enclosed parking where  was required as part of that  project. OK, and when we say  the, I was curious about the  objective. Of the ordinance and  I think the, the notes say  available and safe. parking, is  it safe? In terms of exposure  to weather and ice and whatnot,  I mean, I, I'm trying to  understand why we had that  ordinance in the first place.  What, what we were thinking  intent is to provide adequate  parking for the users of the  hotel, um, kind of subjective  weather a surface parking lot  is considered safe or not  compared to enclosed parking  maybe with uh security access,  a little, a little safer. Uh,  the option here would be to, um, construct detached garages in  that parking area, then they  would meet code. That would be  the alternative. So in terms of  safety, generally the same, um,  parking is going to be detached  from the building either way.  OK, so if it's an apartment, it  needs to be enclosed, but if  it's a hotel, it doesn't need  to be enclosed. Is that the  coordinates? OK. Right, that's  all. Thank you. Just one. Uh,  just a quick question along  those same lines, just to  differentiate. Is it right to  assume that in closed parking  means that it's 4 walls and a  roof kind of sealing your  vehicle within that space. But  covered parking if there was  just something above it to  prevent like the snow and and  ice that's not really  considered enclosed, right?  That's just covered, right?  Yeah, I would, yeah, I would  have to be a, a garage or even  a parking ramp really wouldn't  qualify as enclosed parking. OK, thank you. Commissioner Felt.  I'll follow along with the  parking, um, theme for a second. In another issue for safe  parking, is there going to be  any kind of low-level lighting.  Maybe not tall, but low level  lighting in the parking for.  Safety, being able to see the  walk at night, it might be a  question for for the applicant.  They would be required to meet  our parking standards lighting  requirements for parking lots.  I would assume the site. It's  those today. But maybe I  shouldn't assume. So, 2 more  questions for you. Are there  any other facilities on here  that have reciprocal agreements  with the Edinburgh Park for.  Parking. Just curiosity, really. I haven't run across a  development when I've looked at  all these sites that doesn't  have those all of Centennial  Lakes, the office building on  the other side of the park has  those, those same easements. So  it was pretty, it was pretty  much negotiated into. Both  Edinburgh and Centennial Lakes.  OK. And then the sidewalk is  entirely on uh the easement.  Yeah, either within the right  of way or on the subject  property looks like it is in  the right of way. OK. And that  days That stays. OK, thank you.  Can you, can you, I saw some  discussion of affordability in  the materials. You can you just  Go over that a little bit with  us what. Is the affordable  component. The project is an  aspirational, is it required?  It's just something they're  electing to do that the units  would be. 60% AMI or below, but  it wouldn't be a requirement.  This is really From regulatory  perspective, it's, um. We're  just looking at the the units  themselves, just residential  apartment units. I thought it  was 80%, but maybe I. It, it  might be. OK. Right. There's a,  there's a mix. Some of it's 60,  some of it's 80. OK. But just  to build on that a little bit.  I think Kerry is kind of  mentioning that it's. That's  more coincidental than, you  know, prescriptive or decisive  in this case, it just happens  to be that the rents that the  applicant is intending to  charge happened to be at 60% or  qualify for 60% or 80%. OK. I  thought I saw something and  maybe I was trying to connect  it in some way to the variance  request, but I thought I saw  something to the effect that,  well, You know, the cost would  go up if You had to build an  enclosed structure and that  might compromise the ability to  charge certain rents and You  know, I was just trying to  figure out whether there was a  connection or not, so that's  kind of why I did put that  information in there. I didn't  include it in the findings  cause it's not really a finding  for the variants. It was just  more putting it out there,  that's a. Um, a fact of the  project. But not a, not a  finding for the variants. It'd  be a practical difficulty,  right? Yeah. Uh, Padilla. There  was discussion um. In the  paperwork that we got about uh  the park um wanting to make  sure everything was in  agreement, but I, I thought it  was a little bit nebulous, so  I'm looking for clarification  on whether or not, um, the park  will be changing its hours,  extending its hours or anything  like that to accommodate the  fact that, um, this would be a  residence and not a hotel any  longer, there's existing  agreements, um, you know, in  regards to the parking spaces  and fees and access. To the  park. Those would all remain in  place. It wouldn't impact the  operation of the park itself.  There would be so they wouldn't  extend their hours or anything  like that. There'd be no change  basically. OK, thanks. So to go  back to affordability and  parking. Um, So in terms of  affordability, there since this  is not required, um, something  could come up during conversion  where things get more expensive  and they would have to charge  like slightly above that or  whatever, maybe a lot more than  that. They could sell it at any  point and the new owner could  decide to make it luxury  housing or market rate housing  or whatever. So, so none of  that is, is required in any way. That's correct. OK. And then in  terms of um. Parking and you  know, the, the staff findings  mentioned, you know, safe and,  and. You know, enough parking,  um. But really between the  Southdale guidelines and the  way the city had been until  recently have been promoting.  Uh, mixed use developments um  with parking underneath, a  large part of that was, you  know, land use, right? I mean,  we want to use best, most  efficient use of our land since  we have no place left to expand, um, and large surface parking  lots are really not part of  something that we're trying to  do, um, as a city, so, um. So  really, so you know. One thing  we could require that they  would build out, we could deny  that and then they would be  required to build some sort of  parking structure, OK. Um, or  we give them a variance and.  Some other thing, whatever, OK.  Um, OK, thank you. Any other  questions for Carrie? Measures  Just want to touch on the  easements with the Edinburgh.  Park district or a system, how  does the maintenance of this  space operate? Like who does  what when if it's winter. Does  the park just, you know, clear  out. part of the lot and the  owner of the property takes on  the other side like just talk  to me about the maintenance and  how is that shared the city  does all the maintenance inside  the park, but in terms of the.  parking lot, they would be  responsible to. Keep that  plowed. With the easement, it  just allows people to park  there. Got you. Thanks.  Questions. All right. Thank you, Carrie. Uh, give an opportunity  to the applicant team to come  forward, please introduce  yourselves. Where you're from.  And tell us a little bit about  what we're seeing here. Uh,  good evening, Planning  commission. It's uh my pleasure  to present this project to all  of you. My name is Patrick  Chutton and my partner here is  Abe Roberts, and um, We, um, Uh, and getting into this project  kind of looked at it as an  opportunity to um really come  into uh a hole in the, you die  in a rental marketplace where  there's a lot of affordable  options naturally occurring in  most projects you see that are  coming down the pipeline, um,  we'll throw a component of  affordable in and they'll ask  for tip financing or they'll,  um, 100% require on financing  that several layers of local,  state, and federal, and then  take Many years too. Come to  fruition because you're in line  for some of those funding pools. So we looked at this and kind  of got excited about it because  we're like. The, the, uh, Uh,  units are such that um They,  they work well for uh  apartments being extended stay.  So they already have kitchens  in them and bathrooms and for  the most part, most of the  current code, there would be  some slight retrofit issues, um, nothing significant. And um the  way the buildings laid out with  the adjacent Edinburgh  properties, uh Bookdale Senior  Living and the, and the uh Uh,  Edinborough Office Park, uh,  it's kind of a just a nice  harmonious fit from the outside, so you don't need we felt any  really changes there because it, it stands well on its own. Um  So when we looked at and said,  well, we can do affordable. We  don't, we don't need to come in  and ask for tip financing for  the city. It's, it seems like  it's, it's really a nice fit  for what the community could  use. Um We, um, we also kind of  like uh excited to find out  what the traffic impact was  gonna be less as apartments  versus uh a hotel, um, and, um,  Also, um, you know, felt that,  um, You know, whether we Had to  do a, a covered parking or  didn't do cover parking at the  project um was still something  we, we were committed to doing.  But when we got into the  details of the parking issue,  um, kind of and iterations with, with Carrie and whatnot,  looking at ourselves to do  single covered parking fully  enclosed, doesn't really fit on  the way the site's currently  laid out. It's, it's, you can't  determining the radiuses and  whatnot for structural  supporting elements of a, of a  garage. Also kind of looks a  little bit wonky when you got a  bunch of garages in front of a  hotel. Or uh or apartment  building for its future use.  And then um we also looked at,  um, you know, the possibility  of that discussion went to the  ramp, a ramp option. And, and  again, it adds a a lot of costs  to do a parking ramp. It  doesn't seem to add any  additional benefit from what's  currently been there for the  past 35 years, um, giving that  the parking is sufficient to  meet the need of a hotel or an  apartment building. Um, and, uh, so we just kind of felt that  for the project to really get  the, the biggest um impact as a  naturally affordable project.  So again, it's not a coveted  project where we're looking at  just the rates we charge.  naturally affordable. And, um,  the question was most will be  60% AMI 92 units, and then 44  units would be at the 80% level  or below, so the whole  project's 80%, but a great  portion is 44%, so, uh, excuse  me, 60%. So, um, you know, we,  we felt that it, it addresses a, a big need in the 2030 plan  that the city has, um, and, and  certainly in the Twin Cities  Metro, there's uh a lack of  Projects you can deliver  quickly without having to ask  for supporting money for the  municipalities or the state or  the federal government to to  get a project that, uh, most  people need right now, um, it's  just a big hole in the housing  market for this type of project, so that's why we're excited  about it. Um. And, and I know  you had some questions about  easements and whatnots, all the  easements and covenants stay in  place, um, maintenance is  maintained by us of surfaces,  walks. Um, the parking lot, uh,  we maintain the green spaces,  um, where there's an exception,  um, where there's an Green  space on the north side of the  property where you'll see in  your paper where there's a, a,  a road that comes in and there  that goes over what's part of  the, the park site, it's  detailed as lot 4 and then  comes into our. Building and  that's a service drive that  gets used for trash and  Currently landing deliveries  and whatnot food deliveries for  the, for the breakfast  concessions that are currently  done. Um So that's the one spot  where you do see a, a, uh, I  believe it's a sheer plowing  agreement, um, but the whole  parking lot fac surface area is  plowed by currently the hotel  would be continued to be plowed  by us and maintained by us,  seal coating, striping and all  that. Uh, uh Wear and tear  items. And then to address the  lighting, uh, there's baller  lighting on all the sidewalks,  on the, the park side and then  the front of the hotel, those  walks, and those were just  updated 2 years ago, uh, by the  current ownership, and then  there's overhead um canopy or  gooseneck type lighting on  poles throughout the parking  lot. that will stay in place in  our proposal, so no changes  there. Um So that's, that's my,  um, Well, a couple of minutes  about the project and then uh  any questions that, that uh you  would have for me and for my  partner, I'd be happy to answer  for you. Well, thank you very  much for your presentation and.  The application commend your  creativity and your Practical  outlook to make something like  this happen. Any questions?  Comes, yeah. Uh, in the traffic  study you mentioned the  proximity of existing proposed  bicycle facilities now that  impacts your site, um. Do you  plan on, you know, increasing  the amount of bicycle  facilities currently on your  property or operating on the  property, that's, that's  probably my next point was that  of bicycle riders at hotels  these days, um, so we've added  an on the most current  iteration that um Karen and I  went through, and I don't know  if it's in your packets. I'm  assuming it is. There is uh  approximately 12 biking bike.  12 spaces for a bike rack on  the exterior on the north side  where there's a um Uh,  currently a patio, so we build  off that patio and then a dozen  parking spaces for bikes that  could be hitched up to like a  loop style. Uh Uh, rack OK, OK.  Any consideration for e-bikes  as well, like in terms of the  additional space that they  might need or anything like  that. I don't know that much  about e-bikes, I gotta admit,  so, uh, in terms of like  charging or and just sometimes  I mean it's a tighter fit if  some of them are bigger framed  and stuff like that. I just  wanted to covered facility or  anything like that either don't, don't put them so tight, maybe  have a bigger. We've got room  to put it bigger or longer rack, but yeah. The Commission Padil.  Thank you for your presentation, um, a couple of different  directions I want to go in here. Um, Carrie mentioned that, um,  you were gonna do some  remodeling within. Um, so just  in terms of the, the site plan  aspect of this could you go  into that a little bit? Within  the building envelope itself.  Um, so we'd be adding 3 units,  uh, to the current count of 133. Originally there were 142 units  when this was built in 1990 as  a Hawthorne Sweets. Um, and  then in 2012 there was a large  remodel done that Marriott  requested of the ownership to  keep the franchise. And they  ended up reducing the count  down to 133 units. What they  did is they combined two stacks  of 1 bedroom units and made  those two bedrooms. Um, so they  lost 7 units in their unit  count. And then there's a unit  that currently is being used to  store. Hotel sundry is and  mattresses that was never  remodeled when they did 2012  remodels, that would be. One of  the 3 units we're adding back  into the, the account and then  there was a fitness room that  was created in 2012 that broke  out two units, um, that we  bring back as the 2 units, 2  one-bedroom units. So in inside  the units you're not gonna make  any changes, you're just  bringing a couple more changes  buy code issues we would have  to widen doorways in some of  the units to we got 32 inches  clear. Um, that's, that's an  ADA requirement according to  the 2020 code that's in place,  um, that I've talked about with  the building department, um.  From the 2012 update we would  not see a whole lot of changes  other than probably some  modifications to closet  locations, increased closet  space, kitchens are tight and  some where they've got small  two burner cooktops that we'd  like to convert to a true range, uh, uh, there's no laundry  facilities in the It currently  is on the first floor, but not  in the rooms, just down the  halls and that's that will  remain the same. We are  exploring adding that, but um  it's tough. to do, uh, because  of the stacking and the venting  and trying to get it all to  line up right and then get it  out to your main sewer line.  You're anticipating that there  will be one laundry room in it  we would likely put one where  there's service closet is on  each floor, uh, to add one to  each floor and then have the  larger one on the first floor.  And the only rooms um that have  ovens, um, are the two bedrooms, which there's only 1 on each  floor. I believe some of the  one bedrooms do as well, have,  have a range in them. That  we've seen. They were ranged,  but not an oven. That's that's  an oven stove combo. Oh, OK, I  was told that it was only the 2  bedrooms. Um, well, once we  toured some of the one bedrooms  did. But my our plan would be  to go to like a smaller 24 inch  instead of a full 30 inch.  Range in those kitchen units.  That don't have them. And who's  gonna manage um. Who can manage  the apartment building. So post  post during the, uh,  construction whatnot, I've got  a uh real estate brokerage firm  called Topseal Realty Company  Topsail, yes. And um, My  partner and I have other  projects in Minneapolis and  we've done in Saint Louis Park,  we've, uh, uh, all naturally  affordable where we've managed  those as well. And so, um,  We've had a good run with  attracting good tenants and Uh  Operating those apartment  buildings. Um, there's there's  discussion, um. In the  information about, uh, the  value of other projects, but  not the location. So you just  mentioned Saint Louis Park  where some of your other  projects we currently have one  in on Pillsbury Avenue in  Minneapolis, 5924 Pillsbury.  And then prior ones in Saint  Louis Park on Pennsylvania  Avenue. Uh, 1349 and 1357  Pennsylvania Avenue, um, one  that's been sold on Idaho  Avenue in Saint Louis Park. Um,  so all those were ones or or  rehabs were done and then  released. And you're not  planning on doing anything to  the uh. Outside of the building  at all. So what you see right  now is what you'd see as you  drive by it. With the  exceptional landscape screening. Uh, increased around the  parking lot perimeter. And I  see that you had experience in  REO so you're used to dealing  with. Um I've dealt with some  tough properties. Yeah. This is  not a tough property. And  you're not adding any amenities  to the building. The building  amenity structure will be  slightly modified. We don't  need a commercial kitchen  anymore. We don't need a  commercial laundry room anymore. So, in, in a situation like  that, we could see the lottery  going to a storage location, a  commercial kitchen, potentially  repurposed into a more usable  demonstration kitchen with  residential grade appliances or  um Incorporate into the lobby  area as um we plan for the  office current office spaces to  be more co-working spaces for  tenants to be able to use who  want to work remotely and get  out of their unit. Um, so we  reconfigure some of the space,  but in terms of the way the  amenities are laid out, uh, for  the most part, they're pretty  consistent with how you'd see  it after. The work And how far  would you say the closest bus  stop is. Uh, the report calls  that out. We've got one on Ebro  Way in Minnesota, I believe.  And then there's a one on the  York side. I have to look and  report that is. I think it  stops just at the office park.  Thanks very much. You're  welcome. Mr. Smith. Thank you  for the presentation, um. I  Hopefully I won't take up too  much time here, uh. Just  talking on the parking, uh,  what's the occupancy rate today  of the hotel. He's going down  because of the cold weather, um, but I mean, averages, I think  it's in the low 70 range. It's,  it's, it's commensurate with  the Pure hotels around the  Burlington Strip. And once you  guys are done with the upgrades  and converting it into  apartments. What would you  anticipate the occupy the, the  occupancy rate to be expect to  see it in the 94, 95% occupied  range. OK. The parking study  that was done. Was that based  on just current traffic  movement or kind of projected  traffic movement post  development. my, uh, so I'm not  a parking study expert, but  also I spoke with a consultant  about this, and I believe she  can speak. She is online. She's  on the Zoom. So she can, she  can pipe in. So she's gonna  know the mythology a lot better  than me. Um, but they look at  the use um of Hotel use versus  apartment use. So it's their  methodology and studies that  determine the car account, uh,  use traffic in and out of the  site. Um, so, The hotel right  now is very busy on Monday,  Tuesday, Thursday nights. As an  extended stay. So it's not as  busy on the weekends as you  would expect, say with a  non-extended state. So it  really serves more with  business clientele. About 60%  of their business is corporate  and business clients, not as  much leisure. Got you. I guess  where I was going there was  trying to figure out if the  reduction in traffic is based  off of a low occupant occupancy  rate. Versus, you know, a  higher occupancy rate once you  guys do the work. You know,  just to compare apples to  apples, right? Like if it's  like 70% now and 70% later you  could compare those two. And  that just so and I'm not a  hotel person, but in and when  they When I look at the hotel,  I can see that's their annual  occupancy rate they give me at  70. So my understanding is they  run very high on the weekdays,  and then it drops off on the  weekends. So you might only be  50% occupied on the weekends,  but you know, be close to 100%  on your weeknights. To their  current operation. And Going  back, um, a little bit on the  retrofitting. So the plan says  that you're gonna use right at  these like energy efficient  appliances, the ones that  you're gonna put in and replace, so, uh, the current all  appliances currently we put in  2012. So they're, they're More  current on the 1990 versions,  but uh yes, the Henry star, and  it's all electric. We don't,  there's no gas appliances in  the units, so. OK And in terms  of the process of construction  and timing, so let's just say  we say yes, right, and then you  guys go off and you start doing  the work from once you start  the work to once it's ready for. Occupancy, how long would that  take? and what's the process  that you have to go through  good question. The process we  would start the plan, the  tender plants start with the  top floor and work our way down. To till we and then work the  ground floor amenities at the  same time working in our top  floor. So Lisa will come on the  top floor units first. Um, and  the first unit should be ready  summer 2025, um, our plans  start date would be, uh, uh,  it's a little bit floating day  because the hotel's got to wind  down. Um, which they're gonna  need some time to wind down  that means offload corporate  contracts, they might have with  Delta or FedEx or whomever the  local companies that, that  places people there on a  regular basis. And then, um,  they would give us the hotel  shutdown and then we'd be able  to start the construction. So  we're thinking that to start  around February or March time  frame. Just a few more and then  I could pass it off to my  fellow commissioners here. Um,  just thinking through the  parking lot itself and safety,  right? So with a covered  enclosed parking lot typically  it is, you know, a badge of  some kind that you have to  maybe put on your car or have  your key to access the space is  gonna be security cameras,  right? Talk to us a little bit  more about any kind of safety  features that residents would  need to have, so like, for  example, we, we'll be sharing  this lot with. The Edinborough  Park system. And so would you  have residents come through  that. You know, with some kind  of tag on your vehicle, let's  just say that they hang up in  your car that you know you  won't get towed cause you live  here, but the guys who move in  here from the park because of  an event, they would most  likely get to if it's beyond a  certain time frame, so talk  about that, talk about. cameras, security. And how that we  managed just share more about  the security aspects of the  space I don't, I can't speak to  what's on the Edinburgh Park  side or the, the, the Brookdale  part of the security because we  do share property boundaries  with them. But right now I know  that there's a security system  within the building of cameras  on all floors and hallways and  and the common um. Uh Uh, hotel  lobby. Um Typically on all my  other properties like to put  them around the parking lot. Um, whether it be cases like, I  mean it's just normal life and,  and, and parking lots these  days, you get people that are  coming jiggling door handles on  might do a. A theft and it  helps to see. Uh, who that  might be if it's someone from  your building or whatnot, um,  they was both unclosed and  unenclosed structures. It's not  unique to just having a surface  parking lot. Um In terms of um  Maintenance, um. I think, I  think cameras, I think probably  the biggest thing. The lighting  is sufficient if you drive by  the state right now, it's, it's, it's well lit, it's not a  problem. Um There's no cameras  in the parking lot currently,  but I can speak to my other  projects. I always put cameras  in the parking lots, usually  kind of around the four corners, so you get different angles and  on the entrances so the cars  coming in and going. Um They  give an add-on or security in  terms of who can park there. I  think you kind of got to see  how that goes because with the  85 spots allocated to the  Edinburgh Youths turn their,  their rec hours. Um, that's a  bit of a, uh, uh information  process we have to give to  tenants that this is public use  as well. Historically it hasn't  been used a lot. Seems like  more people use the office side  entry because that's the, the  main entry that's marked um at  the rec center. Um But um,  We're more than happy to, you  know, create a way that they  use can cohabitate it's, it's  worked as a hotel was never  seem to be a problem, you know,  with apartment use, most people  are working during the day. You  know, it's kind of been  historically how it's been in  there coming in the evening  with the park site. I think the  hours are usually 7 to 7. So  probably at 5 to 6 time could  be will see problems. And um if  we would need to do a  designation like a Sticker or  hang take something like that.  It's a simple simple fix. But  Starting off, I kind of like to  see kind of how our things are  gonna flow and once we get  higher occupancy rate, then  we'll see how they use pattern  fits in with the park use again  for 35 years there hasn't been.  And Take down in neighbors and  whatnot, who, who know the site  of use the site and I've used  the site myself as a parent  with kids over the years, um.  Actually, I never knew you  could actually park on this  side. Uh, till, till we Gotten  contract to purchase the  building. So, uh, uh, maybe  some of you are fine now for  the first time too as well. So  now everybody knows there's  parking there, um, but, uh,  like I said, it, it seems like  there's plenty of parking  between what's going on in  Brookdale, what's going on at  the office and, and here for  the, the user base, especially  in the wintertime it gets heavy  in the hotel, so they've never  had a problem, even when  they're running 100% accuracy  with the parking use, uh, as  it's run historically, and the  colonels have owned it, the  current ownerships owned it  since 2001, so they've had a  good history. Um, of use of  this property. OK, yeah. I  think that'll be important to  observe monitor really  carefully, right, um, last  question here for now, uh. If I  were to get an apartment, would  I have to pay? For a parking  spot or is it included in my  our plans included rent. OK. So, so, so. What you pay for rent  has parking with it. Could I  not have parking and pay less  rent? I, I didn't contemplate  charging for parking. So to  just be, parking's offered on a  first come, first serve basis.  Yeah. Thank you. We could do a  sign parking and but I, I'd  rather do first come, first  serve than manage the assigned  parking. OK, thank you. Makes  my life easier. Commissioner  felt. I'm gonna go back to some  of the building um changes you  are taking off all the signage.  Correct? Yes, the Marriott  signed, the building would be  renamed. It won't be no longer  called residence. I don't know  what that name will be at this  point, OK, and then there won't  be any signage on the building  except for Well, private  buildings right now I think  there's like 2 signage windows  there as though signage facing  Centennial lakes on the west  side. Kind of where the green  Uh, triangular tower is on the  west side. And then there's a  sign on the pore canopies who  come in. And then there's a, a  sign, I think on the front of  the hotel that faces. 494 faces  78th Street. And there's a  monument sign on each entry on  Edinburgh Wah in on 78, that's  backlet. That's, that's the  current signage. OK, and I  think like the monument signs  and the canopy signs, but I  think if there's any building  sign they need their own.  Permit, they need a building  permit. OK, so you'll apply for  that. OK, um. And then I was  gonna um jump on the. Oh, I I  used to park on the other side  too with my daughter when I  took her to the park. So I  agree with you. I never knew  that there were 85 stalls in  this, so it was, it was a it  was a well kept secret, um. And, and I do have a lot of friends  that kind of um seniors that  swim in the. Winter and um I  think parents with kids go  there on the weekend in the  winter, so those are gonna be  at the park, yeah, yeah, yeah,  you're busy times, um. And so  you're thinking of starting in  February and it will be a year  to um do the construction. I  think about 1215 months, so  probably about 18 months to get  it full leased up. And what our  projection is once we start.  And then you're planning on  keeping the building it for  quite some time. Yeah, a stable  ownership. OK. Thank you.  Welcome. Any other questions?  Yes, one more. Sure Sorry,  since Katie is online, maybe  she can give a little synopsis  about What she found um in  terms of parking for the hotel  versus what you found for  parking for the apartments. I'm  I sure can. Can everybody hear  me? We can. Yeah Ken, hi, I am  Katie Schmidt with SSTS and we  prepared, um, the traffic and  parking memo that was included  in um the package for this  project, um, so to briefly  touch on The traffic question  that came up earlier, um, on  how we estimated traffic for  the existing hotel and for the  proposed apartment uses. We  used, we use an industry  current manual called um Trick  Generation manual and it's  published by the Institute of  Transportation Engineers, so  it's an industry current. Kind  of uh manual that traffic  engineers, cities, counties  used to kind of determine  traffic numbers for planning  for different types of land  uses, and it's a national  survey of Um Apartments in a  national survey of hotels, and  they document the traffic rates. For each of them, so we used  those numbers and I would  assume it's average capacity  for both land uses, uh, so I  don't know if capacity, it  didn't really come in, we  didn't assume 100% or 50%, we  just use these national average  rates, and that is where we  came up with. The traffic  numbers for each of the uses.  And the proposed hotel  generates less traffic. I'm,  I'm sorry, back up, the  proposed apartments generate  less traffic than the existing  hotel, and we did not apply any  additional reductions to that,  um, given transit given  sidewalks, given walkability  and bicycle paths. And I would  expect there could be a little  bit of a reduction we could  apply to the apartment uses in  addition, but we didn't take it  to the next step because it was  already less. That is a quick  summary of how we got those  traffic numbers for the  existing and proposed uses.  Thank you. Yeah, any questions  on that? No. Thank you very  much. Thank you. And then kind  of similar moving on to the  parking calculations, we  considered, um, two sources.  The first source was Edina City  Code and the minimum parking we  got from that is 170 spaces,  and that's from um. Parking  rates of 1.25 spaces per unit  and then similar to the traffic. Um, the Institute of  Transportation Engineers  publishes a parking demand kind  of uh manual where they, they,  um, document parking for  similar land uses, so we got  our other, um, ITE. Estimate  from that manual, and we were  estimating with our uses and  breakdown of one bedroom and 2  bedroom units, we were  estimating 97 parking spaces  would, would, uh, fulfill. The  the uh need for this  development. So that is where  we determined, you know that  100 number that's been  referenced a couple of times.  And, and that is roughly, you  know, 1.25 is 136 versus. Maybe  one per apartment is what  you're assuming that the band  was, you said 97. A little less  than one prayer apartment.  Correct. And that kind of it  deals with a little bit more.  There's the mixture is more one  bedroom apartments versus 2  bedroom apartments and um the  ITE parking generation manual  has subcategories for bedrooms,  so we kind of got more detailed  within the estimates there and  that kind of brought it down a  little bit to the 97. Thank you. Thank you very much. Mr.  Miranda. Yeah, so speaking to  parking still if you're still  on the line, um. Well, I don't  know if the owners or, or you  could answer the. The existing  apartments that you own, which  sound like they're. Relatively  affordable, um, do you find the  similar amounts of parking  required to what you're to what  the ITE or whatever is is  requesting. I, I'll speak that  bedroom cot makes a big  difference in what I see for  parking from project to project, I'll get, when I got more 2  bedrooms, I need more parking  spots versus one bedrooms, and  that's just, we had two drivers. Right, but, but do you see, um,  you know, one spot per 2  bedroom, 2 per 1 bedroom unit  basically is, is what turns out  people end up using or What  I've seen in the most in in the. The urban area of Minneapolis,  Saint Paul, and then first ring  suburbs. It's usually a 1 to 1  ratio. Yeah. Minneapolis has  now done away with parking  completely and all the projects  which I'm not sure how that  works, but um People, some  people still drive cars, so, um, in any case, um, I haven't had  any issues with not having  enough parking spaces on 1 to 1, um. In any of those locations  and either of those locations  near transit or on a transit  line or anything? Yeah, I, I'm  right on Nicolette and Lindale  in that one location. So have  the rapid transit buses and,  and those locations, um, we  have a couple of regional lines  that run right past the hotel.  Um I know Katie outlined it. I  was just looking at that while  she was talking on, there's a  few express lines and lines and  I find my experiences as an  owner and manager, is that  people are more prone to use  the express lines. Um, to, to  pick up a ride to work. Um, if  they exist by the project.  That's usually a beneficial  line versus just the the normal  sea route lines. OK. Yeah.  Right, that's it for Parking  and Katie. Anyone else have any  questions for Katie? I continue  then? You got it. OK, um. So if  you um. How much would if, if  you didn't get the variants and  you had to build parking. How  much would it cost to build a  parking ramp there for the  required spaces depends on the,  on the complex entta, but uh  for 136 bases, roughly about  3.5 million plus another  quarter million for  entitlements and engineering  and design. He Approaching 4  million in cost. Or ramp. OK.  And, and then, um. Um If you  didn't get the variant, would  you go ahead with this project?  I would still go ahead with the  project. It would be, it would  be a tougher project to hold  long term though because with  our investor pool and whatnot,  the rates return that they  asked for us to deliver for  them, uh, would be compressed.  And um Are you open to your  investors, whatever, open to  guaranteeing any percentage of  these units remaining  affordable in order to get the  variants. I'm open to  discussion if, if it came down  to, you know, it came down to  that. Yeah. OK. Um, and then,  let's see. OK, we talked about  that. OK, thank you. Any other  questions? Thank you. All right, thank you, commissioners. Right, uh, this is a public hearing,  so we will enter that period of  the meeting. So for those  tuning in remotely, uh, you can  jump in the queue and then  we'll, uh, we'll jump right to  the people who are here in  person, but for those tuning in, uh, to participate, please call  the following number 312.  535-8110. Enter access code.  263 2. 554. 0716 And the  password is 5454. And then when  you'd like to speak, press 3 on  your keypad, so hopefully this  is all on a screen and you can  just follow that. While you do  that, We will open it up to  those who are here in person  that would like to testify. You  have 3 minutes to do so,  similar to community comment  which we had no takers. Uh,  just come to either podium,  state your full name, address,  and you got 3 minutes, uh, when  the light turns red, your  time's up and I'll. I'll, I'll  do this to wrap it up. Anyone  here for, OK, great. Good  evening, Chair and  commissioners. My name is Steve  Brown. I live at 5528 Halifax  Lane. I'm going to urge you  this evening to support this  proposed conversion. This  action will result in 136 units  of much needed affordable  housing in Adina. Of these 44  units will be for people who  are earning between 60 and 80%  of the area median income. This  is a group that is not reached  by our affordable housing  policy, which requires, uh, AMI  of 60% or below. So this is  sort of a little. hole in our  affordable housing policy. So  this is going to make a major  contribution toward Our goals  set by the Met council, which  does include that gap area  between 60 and 80. And I think  the applicant and in his, uh,  paperwork provided you with the  exact numbers, and I think  Stephanie Hawkinson also  provided you the exact numbers.  Uh I think it's worth noting  that according to the US Census  Bureau, 49% of Adina's renters  are currently cost burden.  Meaning that they are paying  more than 30% of their income.  For housing. So this affordable  housing complex may be  attractive to some of those  folks who feel like they're  paying more than they should be  paying currently. Well this,  this could be a very good deal  for some folks who are  currently a diner residence.  This is also an excellent  location for affordable housing. There's easy access to 494. The  popular number 6 bus line has a  stop right out in front of this. I checked that on the site  today. So it's an easy access  for bussing. There are grocery  stores, pharmacies, medical  care, a library, a government  service center in parks that  are all easily accessible. Uh  My, my first wish should be  that The Affordable, uh,  affordability period be set as  a condition for approving the  variants of PAC on parking. So  if they would agree to a 20  year period or a fifteen-year  period as a condition that  would be terrific. My second  wish would be there be more  units for families in this  residence. It's not only uh  Great location for all the  reasons listed above, but  there's that wonderful indoor  park. I think, uh, Commissioner  Felt referenced it's a, a  terrific place for kids. And if  you had a family, just an ideal  setting. I do also want to  mention that the 80% AMI  currently translates to $99,000  in income. So that's squirrely  middle class. It includes all  the teachers, uh, are most of  the teachers say all, it  depends on your level of  experience, but teachers  certainly qualify at that  income level, medical condition, uh, technicians also qualify.  And of course, there are a lot  of seniors who would fall, uh,  below the 99,000 income level.  So this is going to be a very  attractive complex for a number  of, uh, both workforce members  and seniors. So again, I urge  you to support this conversion.  Thank you very much. Thank you.  Do you have anyone else who is  here in person that like, yeah,  come forward. Uh You got it.  Good evening. My name is Leo  Silva and I live in Edinburgh  Condominiums right next to the  Marriott Hotel. I'm here today  to say that I'm opposed to  converting our local hotel into  an apartment because I don't  believe apartments genuinely  offer affordable housing. The  core issue with apartments is  that they promote renting over  ownership, renting, unlike  owning does not build equity or  offer a pathway to financial  stability. Over time,  homeowners could see their  investments appreciate while  renters will just be stuck with  an ever increasing cost of  renting that will prevent them  from ever saving enough money  for a down payment. Sorry my  first speech. I think this  decision will just be  subsidizing the profits of a  faceless investment group at  the cost of our residents. They  might try to convince you that  rent prices are fair, but if  someone who volunteers at food  banks, I can tell you that  around 80% of the people we  help. Live in affordable  apartments that they can barely  afford. They might try to  convince you that the sun  landscaping is enough to ignore  sonic codes that provide proper  and closed parking spaces to  protect residents' vehicles  from snow and theft in order to  save some money. They might try  to convince you that residents  will use public transit more  just so they don't have to  provide extra parking for  families that share units. They  might try to convince you that  construction. Will require city  or federal subsidies, but who  will guarantee that they won't  need or use them later down the  road. Perhaps I'm being too  cynical, sorry, but I've tried  doing as much research as  possible in order to see the  quality of his work. But I  couldn't find anything at all,  and the way this project was  proposed to me it just seems  like he's just trying to make a  quick profit. Maybe I'm wrong,  maybe they are a good company  that we should cooperate with,  but there's just no way for me  to find out. Regardless, what  I'm trying to say is that  instead of affordable housing,  we need to explore policies  that instead support housing  affordability. These terms  sound the same, but they're  very different. Well, I'm  proposing instead is the  construction of low cost  condominiums like where I  currently live in. By  prioritizing ownership, we're  not just providing a genuine  place for people to call home.  We're offering a chance for  economic growth where residents  can spend their money on local  businesses instead of just  housing. So let's not just  build for-profit apartments  that take advantage of  government subsidies. Let's  build futures. Thank you for  your consideration. thank you  for considering my perspective.  Thank you very much. Anyone  else Please come forward. My  name is Elizabeth Toms, and I  live at Brookdale Senior Living. We have 3 levels of um. Care.  Memory care, which. They, um,  use the building limitedly  assisted living, which is um  about 3, these are 3 floors in  our 18 story building and um.  Independent living. I live in  an independent living and when  we heard about. Um The issue of  these apartments, at first I  thought it was a good idea, but  um, We were all talking over  dinner. And um. We think that  The buildings all three, the  park. Our building And the  hotel are all even the office  building on our side by York.  They're all connected. The only  thing that keeps You know, you  have to lock it to keep it. And  our Senior living has a  complete balcony that faces the  child, uh. Garden And um, We've  had a lot of people who come up  and they want to use the  bathroom, well, you know, it's.  A little child that needs help,  but um we're very concerned  about the security of this  situation. 4 children and  seniors, um, we have a covered  parking lot in the basement of  our building, and even having  our cars down there, there have  been issues. People sneak in  when the doors are, you know,  getting closed and uh there was  one guy who was using the hotel  and When uh someone was asked  to identify who had been Um In  their apartment, he had a  different jacket on. Because he  had a bag of clothes with him,  so it was, you know, it's, if  you're going to do something  naughty, there's a way to do it, but, um, we think that um It's  kind of an iffy situation and  they need to. Addressed the  fact that there are just a lock. Between The security and all  these buildings. Thank you.  Thank you very much. Do we have  anyone else? Here in person,  I'd like to testify. All right,  seeing none. Uh, we'll go to  the virtual queue, uh, has  anyone called in? No, we do not  have anyone in the virtual  queue and then I just want to  give a reminder, I'm gonna need  um just your addresses to for  the record, um, if possible.  Thank you. Do you want them to  find you later? OK. Well, since  it's been well over a minute,  uh, that we opened the virtual  queue. I think we're safe too  close a public hearing, so I'd  welcome a motion to do so.  Motion to close the public  hearing. All those in favor say  aye, some public hearing is  closed. I take it back to the  planning commission to  deliberate. Any further  questions or comments in  regards to some of the comments  we heard. Mr. Ham and apologies  in advance for my voice. I'm  going to do the best I can and  try to be short. Um, I am  deeply sympathetic about the  idea that we are not building  equity in congregate living  environments, um, state laws  are a big problem. Clawback and  warranty problems, um, and the  finance has made it  unfinanciable, and financially  suitable, um, and insurance  providers are basically pulled  out of the market, so I, I  agree with you, we need more  condos, but in this environment  and for the last handful or so  of years. There just isn't the  appetite in the development  world. I think this project is  a great adaptive reuse. I'm  bummed I didn't think of it  myself. I think it is um. In  line with our climate action  goals. It is providing that  naturally occurring affordable  housing that we deeply need. Um, I echo Mr. Brown's comments. It  would be great if we could have  larger units, uh, or  multi-bedroom units and  capitalize on that, uh,  connectiveness to the Edinburgh  Park. Um, I guess I would  challenge the developer. I, um.  There is a lot of seniors  coming who need affordable  housing, but I think just that  location from the family  perspective, there's a unique  opportunity there. Um, what's  before the planning commission  is really to understand if we  can grant a variance, if we  don't like their business model  if we don't like the clientele  or the pricing we're allowed to  have those opinions and you can  vote at the ballot on Tuesday.  Everybody vote. Um, but in, in  my mind, the point of the  ordinance for covered parking  was to create safety and  security, um. I don't know why  this project, uh, would be any  different, um, in terms of how  we think of it if it was  affordable or market rate, do  we think having open air  parking is not safe for a  person living in our city, lots  of people have open air parking. I enthusiastically support this  and um thank you and I commend  you for figuring out a way to  make that affordable housing  without using any government  financing, city financing,  you're not asking for any  subsidies of any kind. You, uh,  you found a unicorn property  and you're gonna do something  great with it. Um, I would hope  and I'll throw my voice in that  city council encourages you  guys to Um, really make sure  you have a thoughtful security  plan because of the  connectivity to public  amenities in that Edinburgh  Park and um encourages some  sort of signing that makes it  clear when you are at 100%  occupancy that there are, you  know, Monday through Friday 9  to 5, whatever the hours are,  these spaces are reserved for  um users of the park. I want to  make sure that's available, but  that's not my purview. I'll  just, um, suggest that  personally to city council. But, uh, thank you. very much for  coming today. Let's go down the  row. Go down the line, um. Um,  I agree with Commissioner  Hahnemann. You had touched on  it, the, the request for it um  before us is just about a  parking variance. We have very  little to do with the building  itself, it's already Allowed to  be used as a residence, um, so  that part we have very little  say over, um, in terms of the  variants for the parking, I am  fine with um the surface  parking, and I actually  appreciate. You know, the  additional, um, 3.5 million, 4  million with soft cost to kind  of build a ramp, um, not having  to do that will keep these  rents lower, um, And I would  probably I have been in that  lobby because my cousins used  to stay there because they  loved having the two rooms and,  um, I would go down and sit  with them sometimes there and  it was always. Lovely, and they  were lovely people and they're  homeowners, and this was their  kind of home away from home  when they would visit people  here. So, um, I always thought  the clientele there was, um,  you know, pretty good people  for the most part. And I also  think that um people who'd be  living here day in and day out,  you will be, um, vetting them,  you're making sure that they  have their source of income,  they will be making between 75  and $905,000 a year, um. And  they will be, um, neighbors,  and they will be um users of  the park and citizens of Adina,  um, and so I think all of that,  all of those things are good  things and I'm in support of it  too. I really don't have a  whole lot to add beyond what's  been said, except I'd be  interested in the rest of the  commissioner's views about  whether there's a way to Um,  increase the chances of the  rent staying affordable, so the  point of um one of the reasons  they grant the variance is you  avoid the need to. sink $4  million in building a structure. For parking and, and that helps. Keep the, the rents affordable  and that helps the city achieve  its goals. Is there a way to To  to lock that in a little bit  more. It's part of an approval.  Basically the same thing he  just said and I think the  variance is reasonable, um. But  yeah, I'd like to have that  discussion as well. That's  pretty much it for me. Yeah, I  agree. I think it's, it sounds  like a great plan and uh how  important it sounds, it sounds  cool. I mean, you get more  families contributing and going  seeing public parks and as a  student, um, I mean, that's,  that's great to see. Um, I  think there's not enough teens  in parks and so I like the idea  of uh attracting new families,  so. Yeah, I think this is a  pretty good project, um, the  fact that there's no federal  subsidies. I think that's a  positive. I think we have to  maintain that. Security, as was  mentioned earlier, is going to  be really important, right,  because if we're giving up  covered. And closed parking.  Which secured was a big aspect  of that and if we don't have  that now, we have to really  find other ways to provide  security. So as I was talking  about earlier, things like  cameras, you know. Etc. right?  Just to make sure that  residents who move through and  in and out of that space feel  very, very safe locks where it  needs to be, etc. um, that has  to be a part of this, and I  don't know if this is a  question for Director Teague or  not, but if we could figure out  to make the affordable housing  component a condition on  approval. That's what I think  might be the solution, and I  don't know how you do that, but  we have to maintain and lock  that in because that was. The  sweet spot that got us over the  hump, right, so we wanna make  sure and maintain that so  whatever already investor class  is looking at if they could  maintain the Affordable housing  component that would make this  uh. A very good project but  overall. The conversion, it  makes sense. I agree with most  of what my colleagues have  shared so far. We have to make  sure that we lock in the  affordable housing. Component  and really focus on improving  security. I think those two  things are the important parts  for me. As far as the variance  goes, um, I am in support of  the variants, um, because I  think that, um. It's kind of a  compromise. There's, there's a  lot about this project. I feel  like it's a compromise. Having  said that As I said, I will  approve the variance. I think  the building, um, Is, is a  little tired looking, the whole  area is, um, I would have been  happier if you had said you  were going to do, um, You know,  some minor facelift work, um,  um, I, I wish for the amount of  rent that people were paying.  There was more available or  accessible laundry facilities  and. Larger cooking. Um,  facilities, um. You know that's  somewhat tempered by the fact  that, um, there is a park next  door. I'm at that park. Very  often in the winter time and,  um, they, their concerts there,  so it does offer a lot, but  it's my understanding based  upon what I read and what, um,  Carrie said that even if people  live there and have kids, they  have to pay for the kids to go  into the park where they have  to pay the annual, um, fee. Um,  for the kids to go in the park  because it's not free, um,  basically for anybody, even  though I pay. Um To go to the  park, um. So having said all  that, I. Agree. That's my only  other point. I agree with  everybody. Everybody's point  about other things that are  important. So the way I'm  looking at this. It's actually  pretty complicated. Um On the  one hand, You know, if you look  at this, if you, if you don't  consider affordability or  anything like that, and you  were going to build a brand new  apartment building, um. There's  no real practical difficulty  here about building. A parking  ramp. I mean they have the  space, right? Um, So if this  were, you know, Market rate or  luxury housing or whatever,  then I think, um, you know, it  should be required, um. Because  that's what the ordinance says.  And um. But I think the key  here is that this, you know,  we're not, we're looking at  trying to avoid that, so the  city has, you know,  affordability goals, uh, the  city has climate action goals,  um, in that, in this case, they  kind of contradict each other  because uh an open surface  parking lot is not really. Uh,  good for the city, it's not  good for the residents, it's  not good for the, uh, water at  all. But obviously people and  affordability of housing is, is, I would say trumps that. So  some kind of like trying to  figure out a way where this is  where my questions came from is  trying to figure out a way  where, oh, so the other thing  I'm considering here is that,  you know, as wonderful and  great people as you are, I'm  sure, um, there's a huge amount  of consolidation going on in  the real estate industry. So,  um, I was just randomly looking  at Hennepin County maps a few  weeks ago and noticed that a  few apartment buildings in  Saint Louis Park, um, I wasn't  researching this, so I don't  have a lot of detail, but a few  of them were purchased by some  real estate investment group  and then during COVID and then  after COVID, if we are after  COVID, um. That company was  bought out by Wall Street Bank.  So, um, and it turned out that  was the most expensive suburban  building, apartment building  ever sold in the Twin Cities.  So, As wonderful as these  investors may be, their company  may be bought out at some point  or or merged or something else,  so. So again, I'm hesitant,  without any kind of guarantee  again, this is where my  questions were leading, um. It,  it feels like a giveaway.  Because there's no physical  impediment to building the  parking, um, even though it's  expensive and I think wasteful,  but But that's not what the  ordinance says, so, um, I think  I think we should pass this  with. Uh, you know, uh, a  recommendation to counsel that  they require some sort of  guarantee of affordable housing. Now I don't know that we need.  100% affordability or anything  like that, um. But I think some  percentage should be required,  you know. I don't know what the  regulations are for that, but I  feel like If we are going to  give this, then we need to have  some sort of, you know, It's  something the city can use as  leverage, I feel like, um, to  get guaranteed affordability.  So, and it, and it could be at  this 80%. You know, it, it  doesn't need to be 60%er or  lower than that, so, um, but I  think it behooves the city to  do that sort of thing. Secondly, Again, because An open surface  parking lot is not part of the  Southdale goals, it's not part  of our, uh, land use goals, it,  it, it's a kind of a waste of  space, really, um, especially  when it's gonna be over parked  by like 70 spaces, um. The goal, I think, would be to have that  lot also or part of that lot be  redeveloped at some point, um,  and so the city has a, we can't  require, well maybe we could,  but it doesn't make sense to  require like bicycle  infrastructure there because  the city doesn't have a plan  for it in Southdale, um. It  doesn't make sense to require  like a transit station there or  anything because the 6 bus is  going to be the E line, which  is far north of there, and so  this part of the 6 bus, I don't  know if it's going to continue  or not. Um, although there are  other uh bus lines that go  there, so. I feel like instead  of spending $4 million on  parking, is there a way we  could request the city council  say, hey, give us. $100,000 for  the pedestrian and cycle fund  or give us money for Metro  transit for transit shelter or  something, you know, so  something where um we get  affordability or some  affordability out of it, and we  also meet some of our climate  action goals. While they pay  significantly less than $4  million for building parking.  And so I think that becomes  sort of a win-win. So that's  kind of what I'm thinking and  I'd be happy to hear what you  guys say about that.  Considering how much. Time I've  spent trash talking surface  parking over the years. It  seems odd to Be supporting this  project, but I am, um. And I  don't need to go through the  reasons because others, uh,  including Mr. Brown have  already mentioned. All of the  offsetting benefits that this  will deliver to current and  future. You down in a residence. The, the one thing I think that  does bear mentioning is uh  related to the. Comments of a  couple commissioners about  wanting to find a mechanism to  guarantee affordability over  time. I am empathetic with that. Desire, but I, I guess I have a  lot of confidence in the market  in this case. And the  resilience of what we're  calling naturally occurring  affordable housing, in my view,  These units are affordable  today because they're quite  small. In the scheme of things.  And, and Um Rather, you know,  they're going to be nice places  to live. I'm not, um. Trying to  be critical and saying they're,  they're small and they're  modest in their amenities.  They're going to be somewhat  limited cooking facilities, for  example. Uh, plus there's  outdoor parking in January. So  I think I, I feel pretty  confident that the market is  going to keep these  comparatively affordable. Um,  compared to the other  properties, the, the kind that  we typically see, um, in this  environment. So I, I personally  don't feel a need for  guarantees. Or additional  restrictions or regulations or  promises. Um I think it's going  to stay affordable just because  the market's going to demand it  until someday it's developed  into, into something else.  Thanks. Sure. Um I mean, this  is interesting to me. We are so  used to doing the PUD process  and doing a gift to get. But  there is kind of no give to get  here. And I think, you know,  the variance is just about the  parking. Um, there's no  variance request for the  building at all. So I think,  you know, in terms of and and  you'd mentioned Commissioner  Miranda, the, um, Surface  parking in the runoff, they are  doing a erm, you know, I think  if you wanted a variant to make  sure that, you know, any kind  of surface drainage was kind of  filtered on site before it left, um, that would seem like a  reasonable request for the  variants, um. By agree with um.  You, David, about Commissioner  Alky about the fact that the  surface parking lot in this  situation will probably help  keep the prices a little lower.  And that's my gut feeling on  this one. Question for you,  Carrie, if, if this were an  exceptionally similar project,  but we're condos and instead  would it still have the same?  Issue it would whether it's  owner occupied or rental. So I  mean I didn't, I didn't think  that this personally this. This  project could have got better  until, uh, gentleman shared, uh, testimony about it being a  condo. I think we lose sight of  that and Uh, it's something to  not lose sight of, um, and  Commissioner Hahneman brought  up kind of why it's just not  able to be done right now, but  Um, you'd be in the same  situation of um. Of either  requiring parking or not to  achieve the same. Better  outcome potentially. Um, but I,  I appreciate that being said  because I didn't think this  could have got better, and I'm  like, you know, if this were  the same thing, but condos, I,  I would be more excited. You  know, but I'm, I'm still  excited about this. Uh, it's,  it's just something we don't  usually see as. Just being  creative with what you already  got, uh, the tendency really is  to tear down and start over and. Um, it's, it's inherently less  wasteful to use what you got,  um. And at least as far as like  the future of like Southdale  like it, it doesn't conform to  those principles, but I think  it opens up the future, it  opens the possibilities in the  future versus like. You know,  because the design principles  don't call for building  standalone ramps even though  we've seen those proposed too.  I think if you were, if we were  forced to build a parking  situation now you limit the  future of the site for  redevelopment. Um, where maybe  it could house the parking for  the site or something more  fluid, and I think I'm more  interested in seeing how that  plays out versus, you know,  forcing the parking, um. But  yeah, just, just commend the  applicant team for It's, it's a  great creative, uh, adaptive  reuse, uh, Commissioner Padilla  brought up the laundry and, you  know, uh, just you mentioned  everything would be electric,  so I just figured I'd share a  comment, but at least with the  all in one. You know, heat pump. Um, washer dryer, you mentioned  just the drains, right? You  just need to find a drain, the  other benefit that a lot of  people don't realize about  those, especially in a reuse  perspective is you don't need  to vent, which is usually more  difficult to find exterior  walls and larger duct work to  get your venting to. Those type  of uh machines use the heat and  convert it to energy. So you  don't have to send hot air  somewhere else, so, um, if  there's a way to make those  work or provide more facilities  in a modest way or just  combined units for families.  I'll leave it to you, but so  far so good. I'm. With a very  unset hand, I support this  either way. Um, any other  questions or comments people  have. I know there is some.  Just questions about.  Conditions on affordability.  Was that wind or gotten? More  focus for any of you guys?  Otherwise, willing to. Your  emotion too. I mean, the only  thing about the affordability.  I mean, we can ask the city  council, I mean, we can just  say to the city council is  there, but I don't know about  adding requirement. Or it just  giving the advice. That makes  sense. Now commissioner Born in  they had similar. Sentiment or  at least curiosity around it.  Wasn't that kind of The way you  were phrasing it as well as  recommend that the council  consider whether It makes sense  to some type of condition that  would Increase the likelihood  of more units staying  affordable. Seems consistent  with the so maybe the market's  gonna keep them that way anyway. Um, that doesn't seem like it's  intention. With the idea that  be like a ceiling or a cap  placed to make sure it happens  regardless of what happened in  the market, so. Um I I, I think  I would support either type of  motion, um. I don't see the  downside in including a  recommendation that the council. Consider if there's a mechanism  that's appropriate. Maintaining  some amount of affordability on  the site. way to phrase it like  that. I think you got some  think the problem is if we put  a Sorry, if we put a  requirement to make it  affordable in the capital A  definition of affordable then  someone has to income qualify  folks and monitor it, and it  creates an additional level of  compliance and burden that  ultimately hits the operating  budget of the management  company. Which makes operating  the building more expensive,  which means rents have to go up  to support that additional cost. I would be, I, I liked  Commissioner Miranda's thought  if, if. If we feel like we need  to give to get. Perhaps there's  a larger park dedication fee or  a, um, another public amenity  that they could help make a  contribution to that would  enhance the overall community,  but I think if we try to, I  mean, these are small units.  These are uh outdoor parking,  all of the things that everyone  said, nobody's gonna pay top  dollar for them. That's why  they're naturally occurring  affordable. I think if we A  cumbersome requirements that  even if they are um aligned  with what the market will  dictate. It just is another  example of us creating  obstacles for for development  for these kinds of attainable,  um, uh units. I would support a  recommendation to city council  that they consider Um Expanding  the park dedication fee or  perhaps some sort of  contribution to Edinborough  Park itself, um. Something  along those lines, but I would  not support a requirement  because of, um, I think it's  redundant and unnecessary and  does exactly what we don't want  to do to make these kinds of  things happen. So day Uh, so I  wanted to take the, the  recommendation piece of the,  you know, public benefit part  or whether it's something at a  rural park or whatnot, but I  kind of fixated on the bike  piece, the bicycle facility  piece here, I think that could  be a good area of opportunity,  um, to. You know, if we're  going to have a recommendation,  you know, I think more than 12  biking spots if you had covered  parking, so I'm thinking about  our parking discussion, David,  right in terms of how do we  increase? By bike and  pedestrian facilities in the  city. Um, we had our discussion  with the transportation  committee and a lot of big  thing is it'll be nice to have  covered park, bike parking and  more bike parking, so maybe  some kind of, you know, trade  off in terms of. Bike  facilities here since the park  is right there and it'd be nice  if families could easily feel  confident that they could. bike  there all together, and their  bikes wouldn't be stolen  because that is a big hurdle  for a lot of people when they  go when they talk about wanting  a bike somewhere, um, I think  that's maybe an area of  opportunity here for. A gift to  get or a recommendation piece.  So, having been on the  transportation commission, um.  On a Flat surface, putting bike  facilities in is not terribly  expensive and or cumbersome or  anything, um. But what's really  missing in this city is, you  know, we just have been going  very slowly with our, our bike  and pedestrian plan because  that's just grossly underfunded. Which is why I suggested rather  than just, you know, nothing,  then. Instead of spending $4  million and spending 50,000 or  $100,000 into the pedestrian  and cyclists fund, then at  least, you know, Because  they're saying they don't need  that much parking. Maybe, you  know, if a lot of these are  couples or whatever, then one  person drives, one person bikes  to the, to the E line or  something, right? So, The  problem isn't parking your bike  there. The problem is getting  from there to the Eli, right?  And the, the city doesn't have.  There's a, there's some part,  there's, there's some bike  facilities in Southdale, but  there's not a lot, and there's  certainly nothing north-south  anywhere near here. So, um.  Putting that money into the  fund would allow the city to  build more bike infrastructure.  So that's kind of where I was  going with, with that part of  the discussion, so. So I would  like to make a motion then that  we approve the variants. Um Uh,  and the message to, I don't  know, message, what do you want  to call it to the council is  that, you know, they require a,  a contribution to the  pedestrian cyclists fund. I'd  second that. Uh We'll leave it  for discussion and any  discussion, we have a motion of  second, Commissioner Smith.  Yeah, this is a question for I  guess director Teague just so  that I'm clear. Um, the motion  that we have before us, I know  it's a variance for parking.  But do we have within the  pyramid of discretion, right?  Do we have the ability to put a  condition on affordability. Is  that possible for us or not?  Yeah, so you're taking action  on a variance, so there has to  be a nexus between What they're  requesting for the variants and  minimizing impacts. That the  variance causes, so a  dedication to the cyclist fund  I'm, I'm not sure we'll  probably need a city attorney  opinion on that. Um Adding  bicycle parking. You know, in  lieu of enclosed parking, you  know, maybe there's a, a nexus  there, um. But that, I guess  that's the thing that we need  to focus on. There has to be a  connection to minimize impacts  on the variances that's being  requested. OK, so that sounds  like a no. to me, um, so I  guess. One question for the  applicant, if you don't mind.  Um, why did you propose that?  You know, some of these units  would be affordable at 80% AMI  for some of them and 60% EMI  for others like what was the  reasoning for adding that and  making that something that we  should be thinking about. OK.  Um, the reasoning in part is  already brought up by other  commissioners is looking at the  size of the units. Um, when we  get down to a lot of the one  bedrooms were probably around  480 square feet. And um, I look  at, um, for example, Oh  Competing buildings like  Yorktown Continental, which is  a covenanted affordable  building. They're roughly 520  square feet on their one  bedrooms. And that's close  enough to be a kind of an  apples to apples comparison.  And they're around 1280. Uh,  per month on their rents, exclu  certain utilities. They get  figured into the calculation.  So I looked at that and they're  about 1700 for the two bedrooms. So, that's kind of where I was  kind of looking like, can we be  naturally affordable with those  rent ranges with these unit  sizes and not have to have Uh,  like Commissioner Haman pointed  out the burn of writing all  these regulations and  compliance programs for  affordability that you don't  get in a naturally affordable  project. That's how we came up  with the kind of the breakdown  between the units with the ones  and twos and the pricing. That  we're looking at. That, that  speaks to your question well  enough. Yeah, yep, that makes  sense. OK, I understand how it  came to be. I guess there's  nothing really preventing. You  and your organization from  increasing the rents. If you  had to, right? I think we're  seeing up here that it's  naturally occurring, right? Um.  But it could go up. It could be  unaffordable at some point,  right? If the demand goes up in  that area. So that's what I'm  just trying to think through it  won't get on the, it won't  become unaffordable because  there are more luxury premium  product on the market. So this,  um, to give it like an office  building right? The new shiny  office building that gets built. It commands the highest rent  per square foot, because it's  got the most amenities, it's  got the best windows, it's blah  blah blah blah blah. No matter  what they do to this building.  In Leicester're putting tens of  millions of dollars in it, at  which point some part, they'll  have to come back for some sort  of fiance or permit or whatever  this is always gonna be a kind  of tired small apartment  building. It's going to be 1  and 2 bedrooms. It's not  families, it's couples or, or  maybe small children or  retirees or, you know, widows  and widowers. They, they're  living on more restricted  income and they don't want to  be the shiny sexy apartment  building. It's got the fitness  and the pool and the rooftop,  like they can't afford that for. Financial reasons or they don't  want to afford that because  it's not a priority to them. So  I think we, you, he's  referencing AMIs which are part  of the affordability standards  and programs, but he's not  gonna check to see what people  can pay. If Steve Jobs wants to  rent a one bedroom tiny  apartment for that he can, but  he, but he, he is unlikely to  do so. Because he won't have  laundry, because he won't have  covered parking, he just won't.  Alright, yeah, no, I, I think  it makes sense. I'm hoping that  you know this is a good  conversation right to just  really understand why, um, yeah  I'm glad you're bringing it up  because the word affordable is  loaded both politically and um  very misconstrued because in  common talk right if I wanna  buy a car that's affordable,  people know that's not a  Maserati, but when we talk  about housing, it can have some  regulatory meaning as well as  just meaning. Something my  college graduated kid can  afford or. Anybody at any point  in the housing continuum, so  this, this word specifically in  this time in this country, in  this housing. Crisis has come  to be very cumbered with a lot  of assumptions, so I really  loved that we're having this  opportunity. Sorry to keep  everybody up, but thank you for  bringing this because I think  it's a good, it's a good topic  how you get things that are  affordable, lowercase a for  people to buy is that you have.  Really brand new shiny pennies  and you have old not so shiny  pennies and if we burden the  the not so shiny pennies with a  lot of um. Obligations that  takes away from its ability to  be affordable. Which then  reduces that continuum and that  that supply. So yeah, we're  still discussing your motion, I  think. I'd like to add to that  discussion. So, uh. You know,  part of my concern is, you know, I talked about consolidation in  the industry and whatnot. So,  uh, Minnesota housing.gov has a  14 page PDF entitled The Loss  of Naturally occurring  Affordable housing. Um, and it  mentions that 2300. Units are  lost annually. Of affordable  housing and so, um, and it goes  into a lot more detail, of  course. So, so that's part of  my concern is that, you know,  I'm not questioning the morals  or the business sense of these  men here, um, but just that  things change in the future and  do we want to, you know, why  are we giving this variance?  What is the purpose of this of  us giving this variance. To  yeah, allow it to change from  hotel to a place for someone to  live. I know literally what it  is, right? It's like, are we  doing it? I mean, is there. A  structural reason. I'd argue  there's no reason to give this  variance, right? There's plenty  of land for them to build.  There there's no. Difficulty  For the business, a monetary  difficulty is not a difficulty,  right? Right, so the practical  difficulty. test or standards  changed a few years ago. It's,  it's the 3. Um There are  practical difficulties in  complying with the ordinance,  the term practical difficulty  means the following, and I'll  go through it. Uh, the property  owner proposes to use the  property in a reasonable manner, not permitted by the zoning  ordinance. The plight of the  landowner is due to  circumstances unique to the  property, not created by the  landowner. And the third is it  will not alter the essential  character of, of the locality,  so it was staff's opinion that  those 3 are satisfied and not  requiring the construction of  the. Garages and when the deck  if they came forward and they'd  built a deck on the parking lot, our very first comment would be, well, that's not part of the  Southdale guidelines because we  don't have pedestrian friendly  spaces and parking decks are  ugly and, and it would change  the character of the lot. So I  would argue in this case, I  mean, then we would be forcing  a different project, right,  than the developer would have  to figure out a revenue stream  that would support that 4  million and then we've got a  tower with retail. and more  apartment. I mean, like it all,  everything costs so then it  builds. To I mean, to me, if  they even they were magically  going to make it a luxury  building and needed nothing  from us but this variance. I  think the variance holds in my  mind. There is a motion in a  second. Um Maybe uh based on  some feedback from Commissioner  Smith's question to carry.  Maybe it's not a condition. I  know you said it wasn't  necessarily condition. You're  just uh like a recommendation,  so I mean. That's something  that we could leave to the  council between now and then,  and then City Attorney can  weigh in, but I think More or  less, there is probably some  shared favor of that. There is  no further discussion we could  do a roll call vote. Unless  someone wants to. Yeah. Can you  read the motion again? Or say  it again. We have You got it,  you made it. Uh, a  recommendation, a  recommendation, I know, right?  Uh, a recommendation to council  that they uh require a  contribution to the pedestrian  cyclists fund. In order for  this variance. And Yeah, but I  guess. Just a quick question,  right? So we could vote to  approve what we have, but the  recommendation. It's not  binding, right? So it's just  saying your recommendation we  could also add a as a  recommendation. City council to  think about. I don't know how  to make this affordable, right?  Again, our recommendation, not  a binding resolution of of some  kind so do we just say we  approve. The Experience And  then we say we have a few  recommendations. Is that how it  normally goes, but I'm not sure  if the motion has to include  the the recommendation in it is  what I'm saying. I think you  could, you could make a  recommendation to include the  11 conditions outlined in the  staff report. And then an  additional Outside of those 11  conditions that the council  consider, um. Contribution to  the cyclist fund. Are you  asking because you'd be  interested to add an  affordability requirement. Is  that what you're getting toward? That's still weighing on me a  little bit, um. You know, to  lose point, right? Uh If we  stuck to the code, we would  require that there was some  kind of parking ramp or some  kind of covered parking that  would go here, right? But we  all feel good that that's gonna  be too expensive. I we wanna.  Bring more units into the space, but in the more units is really  a units where. It's naturally  occurring affordable housing,  right? So that's the sweet  thing that we're looking at  that's, that's good. That's not  binding. Right? And we can't  put it in the code. And so the  thought is that. You know, how  do we strongly suggest that we  want the developer to continue  along this path, right? And  having affordable housing. And  maintaining these rent levels  that they've outlined for us,  how do we get that to be  something that they strongly  consider it really is. I want  to have them. Take into  consideration. And I think um  Because it's naturally  occurring. They are at their  price point because that's what  the market is bearing. There's  You know We can't determine  what the market will bear. This  facility and the square footage  and the and the number of  bedrooms and the uncovered  parking is going to determine.  What the market rate is and  it's naturally. Occurring  Because of what it compares to  because of what it's um.  Because what's similar  buildings are, are making  people are gonna pay more for  here. So, I don't think we deal  with uh. Continuation of that  at all. I shared a similar  sentiment, but I feel like I'm  pretty satisfied with it. It,  it feels like a complicates a  rather simple matter at this  point, I would agree. I, I  would agree with that. I think  I just had to work through that  a little bit, so I would, I  would go forward those  recommendation. Any other  comments? Or can we proceed  with a roll call vote with uh.  The motion and the second in  motion. OK, Commissioner  Alcayer. Hi Commissioner  Miranda. Commissioner Padilla.  Commissioner Smith.  Commissioner Day, Commissioner  Bernstein. Commissioner Felt.  Hi, Mister Hanneman, Chair  Bennett. I Ocean is. Best of  luck with your project. Thank  you so much for. Doing business  in Ada and being creative with  what we got. Thank you to  people coming in for the public  hearing too. Really appreciate  the engagement. All right, we  don't have any other reports or  recommendations as Commissioner  Day mentioned no chair member  comments or staff comments so  we can just move right to. OK  then, um. So chair member  comments. Yeah, commercial  video. Just a very quick one, I  got to go to Puttshak a few  days ago and it was the the  putt check, um, and it was the  first time I have been clear  from, you know, the, uh. Uh  public hearing all the way  through actually getting to a  place that we approved and it  was, uh, it was a great  experience. So. Happy to have  done that and Paak's real fun,  so. Yeah, that's, that's just a  great example of. I mean, when  you think of what malls were  just more retail, and now it's  trying to kind of naturally  keep them alive is more of that  entertainment shift and then.  Other things too, and the  innovation. I mean the  innovation that we, you know,  kind of got to be a part of and  so, yeah. Very fun. That's  really cool. Miranda. Um Yeah,  so, uh, I know Minnesotans and  Twin Cs in particular are, you  know, have been a lot of our  neighbors have been like, you  know, oh, the, the weather is  amazing, it's great, it's  wonderful and everything and,  and I'm just terrified. I just  think this is absolutely  horrible and, um, you know,  when the two hurricanes, um, in  Florida in the Southeast, and,  you know, record rain and uh  Asheville just kind of  destroyed. Uh, tornadoes in  Florida, you know, um, we're  having record warmth and um You  know, poor little kiddos are  gonna have to deal with snow  tomorrow for Halloween, um,  it's really kind of terrifying  and so that's why, you know, I,  I pushed for this cycling fund  edition or whatever, um,  because I think that anything  the city does, I think should  address our climate action  goals because the world is  going to hell in a handbasket,  you know, right before our eyes, and it's like if we don't do  something, it has to happen at  every level of government, and  I feel like, you know, we're  like 1st, 1st responders here.  And that we have to do  something about it. So, um, so  yeah, I mean, it's been nice  that, you know, I still have a  tan, but it's uh kind of  terrifying that we have this  weather and we're back into a  drought, you know, so it's  really, um. It's hard on  farmers, it's hard on everybody, so, uh, so let's keep up the  good work. Thanks. Sure I'll  care. You got anything? Journal  entry. Yeah. Anyone else? Yeah,  I got. I usually don't have  anything, but can I go? OK, uh.  22 things real quick, one,  everybody should check out the  Cahill district. My wife, uh,  threw me a 40 40th birthday  party at a new kind of a  business that has an event  space there and I don't need to  give a huge plug for it, but,  um, I know Commissioner Alca,  you did a lot of work on that  area. It's a part of the city  not everybody knows about, but  there's interesting things  happening there, so don't write  it off. Go, go check it out, uh, learn about who's doing what,  and, um, maybe. There's  something interesting for you  there, um, second, and I think.  may be more relevant to what  We've been working on  Commissioner Smith, you raised  the idea. Can't remember when  ago, maybe a couple months ago  that maybe um. And it came up  in the context of the. The  racially Um, prejudicial deeds  and the country club  neighborhood and some other  parts of the city. I read  recently that I think the city  of Mountainsville, Mountains  View, I think it was Mountain  View, mandated that um.  Whenever there is a sale of a  home. Um That has one of those.  Unlawful restrictions in the  deed. That it be removed as  part of the sale. And  apparently it's not very  burdensome to do and not costly, and the fact that it was  required suggests maybe it's  legal, you know, I think I was  saying I didn't understand one  way or the other, but, but  since there's no precedent for  it from another city, I think  maybe it's time to rethink  about. Whether you Dina should,  should be doing it. I don't  think we're the right. Forum  for requiring that, but there  was another commission or a  committee, I think that that  was and so just to your idea,  it seems like it's getting some  validation out there in the in  the local government market and  probably is worth. Citing that  precedent and, and pushing  forward here. You look at the  map of where the The racially  restrictive. Um, and unlawful  deeds are, it's, it's all  country club and then some  other parts of the city which  just doesn't need to be there  anymore, so. You were, uh, you  were ahead of the game when you  came up with that idea and I  think I was the one that said I  would. Try to pitch it to to  where the right committee was  so I think I'm gonna figure  that out and and incite that  mountain View precedent to them. Great. I felt. I encourage you,  um, all to go to the city has a  page dedicated to racial  governance and the human rights  and race relations Committee  did work in 20 and 21. And the  city has removed racial  covenants on 52 of the all 52  of the properties they own  their 2800 in the city of Adina. Their 550 in. Country club, so  it is not just a country club  issue and it's not just an  Adina issue. It is all over the  Midwest. It is in Ohio, it is  in Michigan. There are Many of  them, so The city of Adena is  one of 28 cities in Minnesota  that participate in the just  deeds project and the Just Es  Project is the project where  lawyers donate their time. For  people to take these deeds off  their properties. So we have a  lot of information in the city  and um The HRC and the city has  done a lot of work on this  already. I mean, you think of  all the things you sign when  you buy a house. I mean, what's  another signature, right? Get  that thing off there. Thank you  guys for sharing, great, great  news updates. Yeah. Oh she knew  it. Oh, sorry. He said trick or  treat. Motion to adjourn.  Second, Other than a favor say  aye, meaning it's been  adjourned. Thank you, everyone.