I'd >> like to call the meeting to order. Flag salute. Please >> to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice
for all. >> Okay. April 28th, 2026 meeting. This meeting was advertised in the press of Atlantic City and the Hamilton Gazette and notice was posted on the bulletin board at a Carver City Municipal Board. I would ask Donna to put that into the
minutes, please. >> Roll call. Donna. Mr. Walker >> here. >> Mr. McKenna >> here. >> Mr. Peterson >> here. >> Mr. Molina >> here. >> Mr. Fick >> here. >> Mr. Hayes >> here.
>> All right. Approval of the minutes for March 17th. Can I have a motion? >> Motion. >> Second. >> Second. >> All in favor? I >> opposed. All right. Moving on.
No resolutions tonight. New business application 20261 DMB White Horse Pike LLC. You want to step forward and be sworn in, please. Sher, you want to raise your right hand? You solemnly swear the testimony you're
about to provide today will be the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth. So, I'll help be always. Yes. >> Thank you, Mr. Chair, members of the board, my name is Chris Balson and I represent LUV DMBB LLC with respect to its application this evening to the planning
board here seeking a use variance for a use that's not permitted as well as um two uses on one site. There's an existing use on the site. The site's identified as Six White Horse Pike. It's block 526, lot 1.01.
to the highway commercial zone and the use that is proposed which is a contractor's highway contractor's uh storage of vehicles inside and equipment to the exterior of an existing building on the site um I'm sure everybody's
familiar with that on the site is an existing retail um use type of use um which has been there from what I understand for quite some time u the otherwise the property sat vacant for a while and was previously a used car uh
dealership with repairs. Also, a use that proposed is similar, which like I said is a a highway contractor that has highway directional equipment, which they'll store there in the evening, as well as vehicles inside. Because of the other use that's on the property and
this use, as I said, it's a devariance with respect to the two uses and a devariance with respect to the use. I know Ryan had suggested this maybe an aggravation of of the current devariance. I think it's just two variances. It's a use variance and a two
use variance. Andy Schaefer is the engineer who prepared the plan to speak with respect to use variance. Rather than me saying everything once and then we had to say it again, I'll go to Andy. Thank you very much for having special meeting. Uh there is a tenant proposed
who is ready to go and uh so we appreciate you guys giving me time. >> All right. So the pro the property is located it's block 5107 lot 1.01 uh 334 wide horse pike. It's in the highway commercial zone.
It's an existing building. I'm sorry that the shaded area is the seating. That's the asphalt that we're doing and the gravel area in the back that we're proposing. So, there's an existing 2,430 ft plus or minus uh
building that's existing, has asphalt on both sides and the White House pipe. >> Currently vacant, >> currently vacant and a little bit looking to evapoated. So, they've already started a little ahead of the gun, but they've already started. They resided
the building. They're re um surfacing the parking lot and they're redistributing gravel in the back where there's a gravel space that the applicant is going to talk about later on as to what was there and what is going to be there. And so there's no
expansion of existing or proposed gravel or impervious spaces. So we are asking for a D1 variance to allow the contractor storage and commercial vehicle outdoor storage. So we are asking for eight vehicles to be stored
outside. Essentially turns into about 16 trips a day. They come in and come out in the daytime. It's a traffic control type of business where they put the these days they nobody none of the contractors do
it themselves. They hire a traffic control. Traffic plan is a good example of the name of the company but that's not this company. So when when there's a a highway project or roadway project, particularly on city highways or county highways, county roads, um these guys
set up and do the directional work for the contractor doing the actual road work. >> That's correct. So it's done a little differently than it was 15 years ago, whereas the contractor did all that stuff themselves. So some of the permitted uses include our cannabis
retail instit institutional uses bowling alley bank general business retails and services everything almost except for storage outside vehicles which is what we're asking for and storage inside of the
building not occupied by employees but cones signs that sort of thing. So, they're going to have an office inside. I I will be honest with that, but they're not planning on manning that office. So, it's basically zero
employees during the day. It's eight vehicles in, excuse me, out and eight vehicles in in the afternoon. >> That's morning and night. You drop the pick the vehicle up, bring it back at night. >> So, that means it's a relatively minimal
use as compared to some of the other things that are permitted in some. So, it's not going to create a lot of traffic. It's not going to create a lot of nuisance. It's going to create an upgrade to what we see visually in terms of the paving being redone. And the
facade, which I found offline, is already done. >> Now, Andy, the the application mentioned a site plan waiver. We're not asking for a site plan waiver indefinitely. Um, what we'd like to do is obviously get the tenant in there, let him operate, come back before this board for a site
plan with the site improvements that are proposed for the use >> with an arguable agreement. Yes. Meaning that they aren't improving anything that's not already there, but in the sense of just being upfront, we're willing to come back within 6 months
site plan approval for what we believe is already there. In other words, a travel space in the back. Does it have weeds and so forth grown through it? Well, it it did a few days ago. Now it doesn't, but it was already there. The asphalt space in front, was it already
there? Yes. It was it in need of rehabilitation? Yes, it was being done. Was the building already there? Yes, it was already there. Was it in need of rehabilitation? Yes. And that's already being done. As for the site plan approval will obviously help harbor city
going forward with respect to site how site circulation is going to work what the improvements are going to be so we know what enforcement mechanisms can take place standard site plan um improvements and checklist items that you find from the ordinance.
>> Yes. So now coming to the variance whether the proposed use will promote the general welfare welfare or whether the development of the property is particularly suited for the proposed the existing building can accommodate every proposed use that it's currently
configured. In other words, it's not being modified to be configured to accommodate the use because it already is there. And this will be the m the goals of the master plan rediv revitalization of the area which this has been the
subject of redevelopment several times before. So >> with with a variety of uses that aren't in the ordinance now but that were proposed although those redevelopment plans never came to fruition. >> That's correct. So if we were to propose
the special reasons under 40 and 55D2-G a first of all >> positive criteria which >> positive criteria to encourage the municipal action to guide the appropriate use of development of all lands in the state in a manner which will promote the public health well
safety welfare of everybody. That's hard to say. This site is particularly well suited due to its proximity to an oral arterial street and not being near residential. Under item E in the same citation to promote the establishment of
appropriate population densities and concentrations that will con contribute to the well-being of persons, neighborhoods, communities, regions and preservation of the environment. The proposed use is consistent with these family uses that in mostly that it's not
near residential and it's not a high traffic impact type thing we're trying to add to the area. And last, I'll rub it in. G to provide sufficient space in appropriate locations for a variety of agricultural, residential, recreational,
commercial industrial uses and open space both public and private according to the respective environmental requirements in order to meet the needs of New Jersey. This site is again particularly well suited due to its surrounding by non residential uses and
access particularly well access to transportation infrastructure. And last to promote the desirable visual environment under item I the site is being paved and resided. So the site is already before we came
here looking much better than it did before. >> With respect to the negative criteria whether the variance can be granted without substantial detriment public good without substantially tearing the intended purpose of the zone plan and zoning ordinance. >> So what? Yes. >> And why do you say that? because we are
not adding a high impact traffic to what is already a fairly well trafficked area and there is no no detriments of any consequence that I can see zoning wise or impact in terms of
development and operation of the site compared to what could be there that we already talked about in terms of permitted uses. >> What about particular suitability with respect to the property? And don't forget there's another use on it. Do you think the site can accommodate what is
proposed along with the retail personal service use that's >> so the personal service use that is already there operating out of a former house is a massage parlor basically and the traffic impact of that is minimal
and has been associated with the site for a number of years and therefore you think the site the fact it's also been a prior used car lot and repair facility can accommodate the what's proposed with this application.
>> Yes. To a lesser impact to what was originally improved to be as a car dealership and repair service as well as the massage. >> Um, thank you very much, Mr. Shaver. >> Before you leave, Mr. Shaver, I know
you've probably appeared before this board too many times to count, but just for the record, uh, you're a licensed professional engineering planner in state. >> I got my license eight days ago. >> Okay. Your testimony has been previously accepted by this board as an expert.
>> Okay. Thank you, Mark. >> Mark, would you give me introduce yourself to the board and tell tell the board what your role is in the project. Absolutely. >> Can you use the microphone? >> Yep. >> Oh. Oh, I'm sorry. Uh, sir, do you
solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth you got? >> Yes. >> Okay. Your name for the record? >> Mark Had. >> I'm sorry. Could you spell your last name? >> Yes. H A D N E T. >> Had >> Mark, you you're a principal in the
applicant living liability company? >> Yes. And you you and your company do do development work in the South area. Yes. >> Among other places. >> Yeah. >> And you acquired this site, am I right? >> Yes. >> You've acquired a tenant for the site as well. True. >> Yes, we have. >> Explain to the board who that tenant is
and uh their timeline with respect to getting it going operating from the site. >> Looking to get going yesterday basically. But uh Northwest Traffic Control is the is the company. They're a subsidiary of um JF Riley, rather large
um traffic. They do safety equipment for for a lot of the highway work when they're redoing roads or they're redoing count, you know, the parkway or whatever they're doing, they do a lot of the safety work for that. And assuming that this board allows uh Riley or Northwest
to to get to begin operating from the site tomorrow or the next day, whatever it may be, um you would commit to come back before this board with respect to a site plan, a major site plan approval and um address whatever conditions or whatever um items Ryan and the board
come up with tonight or going forward with respect to that site plan. >> Yes, we would. And what kind of time do you think you would need in order to have Andy prepare the site plan? Uh, okay. Property has to be surveyed, site plan has to be prepared. Um, and put in
six months on property 6 months. Does that sound at a minimum what would be needed to come back for the board with the full site plan? I >> I would say that would be fair. >> Okay. And with respect to temporarily, uh, you will install site lighting for purposes of security. >> Yes. >> Have you done that or are you doing that? >> Sight lighting. Yes, there's side
lighting outside and it's turned on correct >> and is sufficient light in the evening for security purposes. Yes. >> For whatever equipment may be stored there or vehicles. >> Yeah. >> Um >> for um >> your hours of operation will be daytime hours. Vehicles picked up in the morning, dropped off in the evening.
There won't be any won't be a situation where there are three shifts running 24 hours and stuff's getting dropped off all night throughout the evening. >> To for to best of my knowledge, it's daytime daytime operation. Yeah. You never have you never have a drop off or anything two o'clock in the morning if
they're starting a job somewhere. >> So >> they they haven't been there. I'm not I'm not aware though. >> They said they don't have to be in additional testimony. >> Sworn in. Sir, >> what what what they told you that what
they told you is that it's pick up in the morning in the evening. Correct. Nobody's explained anything to you with respect to and if so we would come back at site plan time and let you know that but right now what these guys have been told without having that gentle for in is it's drop off pick up in the morning
drop off in the evening not not a two or three shift a day situation we're going to have middle of the night drop offs or pickups >> to the best of our knowledge it's it's morning and drop off drop off the evening but if that does change like Chris said we'll put that in with the
application >> and that we'd have to come back and have that the variance that we're here tonight for to be modified >> and present and present those proofs at that time to accommodate that. >> Right? >> You understand? And you'll have you'll tell you'll tell the entity that between now and then that can't happen. >> Right?
>> Between now and when we come back for site plan, that can't happen. If they have any intention of doing that, we got to deal with that and we come back for a site plan. >> Right. >> What are your what are your uh intentions with respect to the site in the short term like right now? I understand there's some maintenance that needs to be done with the snow area in
the back and some asphalt in the front. >> Yeah. So, um, with respect to the the site itself, the building itself, we we have uh permits in with the the city for the repairs that were done on that. So, we have to do the the property was completely dilapidated, falling apart.
So, we had to do extensive um repairs on that and a lot of a lot of money is dumped into it >> on the building >> on the building itself. Um, and then with regard to the the front, the asphalt, you know, all ripped up. It was just potholes, craters. It was just derelict for multiple years. And same
with the back. >> You've redone that or haven't redone? >> We we are we're in the process currently of of having that redone because it was it was in such disrepair. >> Okay. >> Uh, and there's a concern with the stones in the back and the weeds that proliferate through those stones. >> They're they're going to be kept weed
free as best as possible. >> Yes. So it was I mean it was 30 foot high when we first got the property. It was extremely just not not looked after. Um we we dealt with a lot of a lot of stuff even DP stuff all the rest. Um but
yeah so it's it's been cleared and it's been regraveled in the back the back area and it's that's currently in the process also >> and that'll be cleaning that up. >> It'll be maintained that that way >> and it'll be maintained that way. >> And and the environmental situation uh tell us what happened there. So there was pre from the previous operation
there was um mechanic uh there was a mechanic and a used car dealership to the best of my knowledge from from before. Uh I guess they were just disposing of >> tell these guys. >> Yeah sorry there was they were disposing of uh of oil drums of oil and not disposing of it
correctly. Uh they were just leaving it kind of in barrels and all the rest. So we had a full D report on the on the on the property. Um we worked hand in hand with um uh an LSRP um safe. >> Yeah. And um yeah um they're
environmentally certified. They're the only ones that can handle stuff stuff like that. So yeah, we were we were dealing hand in hand with them. >> The LSRP is has given you what's equivalent certificate >> D >> of the clearance of the property. The property is now cleared of any
contamination. So, previously it was kind of contaminated to tear that up, but that is that is how it is. >> That's great. That's all I have. Mr. Chair, >> I got a question for you. >> Yeah. >> Uh, you're saying there's no employees that'll be there at the
>> Yeah. So, it's not it's not it's not an office. It's more of a drop off location. So, they'll they'll drive pick up the the, you know, truck. >> That's that's what I'm getting at. Where do they park when they when they drop off their vehicle to get into the truck?
They'll um they'll probably park in the front, I would imagine, or just swap out for whatever they're taking. >> Typically, where they swap out the space, they pull out far away and they pull the car in and then at night it gets reversed. >> So, they'll be parking back here also.
>> And how many trucks oversized imagery? >> This is over oversized in terms of it's it's probably like a hundred probably like a 100 back there. Mark, let's let's clarify. >> You'll you'll make you'll have them swap
out the space rather than park in the front or on the highway. You'll have them put their car in the space where they take the truck from. >> Yes. Yeah. >> And how many trucks did you say that'll fit? >> Total of eight. >> What kind of trucks are they? >> They're going to be a variety of trucks,
but some of them have the the big, you know, zebra stripe thing in the back. >> Attenu. Thank you. Those things. That's basically the kind of truck >> that the arrows on the back ones are directly. Yeah, that side. >> All right. So, you're just swapping out
that correct? >> I notic in the front you you have parking on the corner there. Is that going to be asphalted >> for here? >> On the corner of Hamburg >> on this side. >> Yeah, it looks like that's going to be all >> that's that's existing. Um we have we haven't asphalted that.
>> So, >> the the front of the garage was in the the most disrepair, >> right? So they won't be permitted to park vehicles there uh throughout the day. >> That's part of the that's part of the the um massage par next door. That's >> Well, that's the park massage. Okay.
>> Yeah. Over to this side is basically air space. >> Were you were you looking to do any upgrades to the building for the massage par? I drove past it today and it's looking a little rough. Looks like the shutters are down and needs painting. >> Yeah, we we will eventually. the the focus was kind of getting this under
control because it was in that that bad a disrepair. But eventually it is it is on demand. >> And that's your that's your building. That's your tenant as well. >> That is Yeah. >> So if the city needs to deal with that building, they come to you. >> Yes. Yeah. >> So you're not using any of the massage
parlor parking for your business? >> No. I have one other question in regards to the fence. Is the are you going to install new fence around that facility downside? That old fence is all grown in all those trees and then fence off the front where the trucks are going to be going in. >> So So the fence on the front it was
taken down temporarily because they were they were redoing the the gravel and the asphalt. There was a fence that was was dilapidated. We we have to to re to put that in again. >> Put a new fence in there. new a new fence in the same the same line it was existing on it it would go back in but
it it was basically falling back because it was rotted and it it was it was a nice >> right and now your side fence that's parallel with Hamburg is that going to be replaced >> that will that'll be replaced >> because that's pretty bad shape it's all in trees and whatever for security purposes for the trucks or whatever
>> will that be done by the time we come back for site plan >> it will yeah >> Mr. Jack, you done something? >> Yeah. So, it it's a little unusual and I don't know if it it's protocol or if it's allowed or whatever, but to to
have a var to be asking for a variance before the site plan. >> Uh, you know, we're we're raising questions now about parking and how many trucks and all that, which are details that would be called out on a site plan.
and you're testifying that you're going to come back for a site plan, but how do we hold you to that? Uh, and if if you do come back for a site plan, and for some reason you need a Pineland certificate of filing,
I I I don't know how you would proceed with with a site plan. I we're we're out of we're out of sequence here. I I I I could I could suggest with respect and only if you're done I don't mean to interrupt you. >> Yes. >> Um this it's a change of view for the
pine lands and I I don't believe a new application is necessary. Andy was going to confirm that. >> So >> and and you're right with respect to the order of things. This is not this is not typical. We're we're asking for and we're asking for relief that we wouldn't
come in here and ask for ordinarily. But I would suggest you if there's anything that you want to see done whether the site plan or not the use variance the conditions imposed on use variance can be more stringent in fact than a site plan. So if there's something you want
to see that that is done or isn't done between now and then we're bound by it with respect to the grant to the grant of use. >> Okay. But you know you're this is what was submitted to us. it it's a you know
a survey. I don't know when it was done but it's probably pretty accurate. But you know you've got trucks drawn in there. We we usually have you know a site plan that spells out all the things and that that that are supposed to be in there and then
add whatever conditions the board may or may not have at the time. Uh can we can we impose conditions on a on a variance? >> Absolutely. Absolutely. and whatever we said tonight in terms of the eight trucks, the the day daytime only um drop
off and pick up, those all are part of the record and our conditions of of this approval. Whatever we said tonight um we're stuck with. >> So if your site plan doesn't pass, you shut it down. Is that >> site plan doesn't pass, we can't stay there. So, what we're going to suggest, >> Ryan, you got some.
>> What we're going to suggest after conferring with Ryan earlier today is that we ask for um a deferment on site plan for 6 months. We come back within 6 months for a site plan that may or may
not show any enlargement of existing development that's already there. So, we want to take the high road. We want to come back. The site plan may be for little things like lighting and landscaping as opposed to how much
impervious coverage we're asking for and whether or not we have to go back for a new certificate of silent confinement because it looks like the areas they've already um re rejuvenated with new gravel was already gravel to begin with.
That's going to be strictly based on their testimony at this point in time because it's not covered up with new gravel. So, we want to reook at that area as part of the site plan when we come back,
assuming that's the direction the board wants to go in terms of some deferment of 6 months to coming back for a site plan. >> We wouldn't be so bold as to come in and say, can we put a Wawa in there for six months and we'll go back for a site plan for that. I mean, this this site tends
to lend itself to what to what they're doing. It's a fairly innocuous nonactive use and we thought because the way it's set up that would not be disen request that could at least be thought about and considered. >> Right. >> So there's going to be a second bite at
the apple. In other words, what we're proposing for a site plan approval or site plan application within 6 months of this >> and no equipment is to be seen from the outside that will be >> we are purposely parking the equipment in the back behind the building as
opposed to out front where it's already paved just to try and be a little >> I'm not talking about the trucks. I'm talking about the safety equipment >> that goes in the building >> that goes in the building. Any registered vehicles would be parked outside and equipment materials would be >> right behind the building and any smaller materials that are not
particular in nature will be stored inside the building. >> Keep in mind it's a a garage old mechanics garage. So they have there's three three uh garage doors, right? Most probably stays on the truck. >> Yeah. So you have the con signs and whatever else in the building.
>> Well, you see from the outside I'm sure. >> Mhm. So, I just want to circle back on the process. I know this feels a little bit out of order. It's not unprecedented, but it's uncommon for a site that's already developed. Normally, um, we'll see a use variance before a site plan if
there's an undeveloped site and it's a significant investment to, um, you know, to design the site. If it's 30 or $40,000 to to design a site, someone will come in for a use variance first to make sure like, am I going to be allowed to do this here? And then they'll come back with a site plan once they have the
use variance in place. So the process isn't unprecedented. It's just unusual to see it in these this circumstance where we already have a site. Um so that's that's why we're proceeding this way. It's not that it's out of order. It's just uncommon for you know this this type of situation where it's fully developed.
>> Right. But but normally when someone comes in or they're submitting an application to give a site plan approval >> and then we can make make decisions or but it sounds like you've already got this tenant lined up and he's moving in tomorrow. I mean it sounds like >> we're wait we're waiting for approval. I mean the the other option is if we don't
get approval it's we have to go we go back to you know an approved use that's there currently. So be it a mechanic's yard again or >> say that's my church what you said. >> No I mean I would I live in a car. We all live in a car. We've seen that building and you did a great job
rehabing it. It it really is nice. It's nice when you're coming down the pike. My concern, okay, is that it, you know, I guess you just purchased this property in December of 2024. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, when you bought it, you knew the use. It's hybrid commercial use. So,
I'm assuming >> there was two if I wasn't mistaken. >> Well, the zone is hybrid commercial. I I don't know what uses you've had. You got the massage over there, but now it says spa on the window. This isn't massage anymore. It's just a little bit nicer. But um but anyway,
>> yeah, but I mean when you purchased it, you knew it was highway commercial zone. >> You knew that. I'm sure you did some research of what was permitted uses and not permitted, but yet today we're like seemed like we're being rushed. I mean, this meeting was supposed to be last week, but postponed it. You got the
tenants out there. I was there this morning. You had bulldozers over there, stones and asphalt. I mean, you're just you're gunging hole like I I swear these people are going to move in tomorrow. This is it's definitely this is tenant tenant driven. I mean the tenant >> tenant tenant came along and they they
could they like to get they Yes. They wanted >> Yeah. >> stage here and get >> sure and and I I understand that. Uh but but it but it is a hybrid commercial use. Um again we're coming down the spike into a corporate city. Um I'm just
looking to visual you know. So the first thing we're going to see on the right is a massage. We got an adult adult bookstore on the left. Now we're going to have this building which shows beautiful is going to be commercial vehicles stored in there. It's going to have storage in there. I mean we go through a little bit left. We have the
old acne that's sitting there. Um it would be nice to to use that building for what it was intended. One of the uses for hybrid commercial. It would be attractive when you come in. Um I know this this type of a use is permitted probably in the industrial zone,
industrial park. I'm assuming that's where it belongs. I I don't know if it's it's great to have it right there on the Lakers Pike soon as we pull into town. I mean, I'm looking at it from the Galloway entrance. Again, we have another big facility. It's sitting on the left. It isn't that attractive. So,
so I guess my questions are, it sounds like we're just we've been forced to to to jump into this do a site plan approval later on so we can sign these tenants up. But but if if you don't get the approval tonight, um I mean the only
hardship is you lost those tenants. Maybe the next tenants will use it for a permitted use will be a little bit more attractive for the city. Those are just some of my thoughts, >> right? >> Fair I mean fair comment. It's that I mean I know the site has been subject to several redevelopment proposals with
with other uses that for whatever reason hasn't panned out, >> right? Um, so it, yes, it sits there as it did and it's been now it's been approved and there's a tenant that wants to go in and use it, makeover city, it's business, you know, Riley is a huge
national operation. Um, it's not a bad company to have in town, a good company to have in town. Um, that and that site just happens to lend itself to what they need to do. I I noticed that it has been up for rent. I mean, since you owned it, I mean, you could have advertised for looking for hybrid commercial use
through the realtor or the sign, but it was never even looking >> this tenant came along and it was >> Yeah. Okay. >> We had it. It's very hard to Yeah, it was it was difficult finding a tenant. >> True. >> Um, and again, it's it's a nationally
named tenant that wants to wants to take >> I ideally Yes. Would some would it be a small strip center and beautifully designed strip center? >> Sure. >> Sure. >> It could be. How many of the right now with the way commercial development is going offshore? >> It's not working.
>> No. >> And fortunately there's a tenant that wants to be here and wants to use that site. It's getting fixed up and is it perfect? Not perfect, >> but do we think we can justify the variance? We I >> that's up to you guys. If I didn't place it in testimony earlier, it is a
mutually beneficial lease that's coming in. It cleans up a property that is in desperate need of cleaning up with something that's not going to create a nuisance in terms of its use, but only beautify the corridor
in and out of a city. So it's an opportunity that is good for him and it's good I believe for the city too. >> I don't want to spend anybody's money but one of the things you can do with site plan is impose some conditions for instance in landscaping outside the fencing things of that nature.
>> Sure. And then normally that's done prior to to the approvals and it's prior to the tenant moving in. >> No question about it. >> So once they're in there it's like we have no control. Um >> you have complete control. >> You have to do it. You will. You're right.
>> We're still subject to site plan which will have impositions or conditions that you impose upon the applicant to do maybe some landscaping, maybe some lighting, some things that haven't been thought of to date and especially after
this tenant has been in here for a few months. I think >> but once they're we'll be able to recognize what is really needed as opposed to what we project as needed. >> I I I I think you're saying we'll wait
and see. But it'd be a different story if the owner was owner occupied. He was applying for variance because we could talk to him, but this is a third party. This is a tenant. They're dropping off. We don't have a clue what's going you want from from when you're home. So, it's up to the city to maintain the
property to to make sure it's being handled properly. They're not parking things out front. Doors aren't left there. You know, it's >> I'm not I'm not I'm not convinced of that. I I I think a a conscientious owner wants to make sure his property looks the way he represented you guys that it's supposed to.
>> Um and take that burden shouldn't be on Harbor City on him. >> But, but tenants don't maintain a property like a homeowner would. >> Yeah. >> But he's still on the hook. But he he does he does a lead next door in the house anymore like probably the original owner when it was first approved.
>> Right. But again, it's like I said, it's a a national, you know, company. It's not it's not like it's a mechanic that was there before where they're just throwing oil out in the middle of, >> you know, letting the place overgrow. It's like >> we don't we don't think of it as a point
with what site operates and especially imposing whatever conditions you do a site plan. We have tonight's representations and whatever you impose the site plan is we're valid by that. Thank you. Your insight is correct. >> Mr. Chairman >> Jack I I don't have so much a problem
with you know the proposed use because it's not a stretch from what was previously there with automobiles parked in trucks and you know a repair shop. I I I don't I don't see that as being a problem with the use. I'm having a
problem with not seeing a site plan because I have I have questions. Site lighting, uh, trash enclosure, one of my favorite subjects, you know, fencing, landscaping, you know, you're here on a promise and with all due respect, you'll honor your obligations, but once you do
that with, we have no teeth to enforce that. Okay. Uh I I just I don't know why this is raising the hair on the back of my neck, but given the variance without a site plan to review, I just I'm not feeling it. Guys, my concern my concern
is this. There's there's six members here tonight and I'm getting sense from two that that might not be a vote in the affirmative and and it's five votes that are necessary. Okay. If we can't come if if tonight the application fails because it's four to two um we can't ask for
that variance again >> right in six months. >> Chris you know that uh you are entitled to seven voting members. Uh I would have already advised the board that in case uh in the situation that you did not receive five affirmative votes that the
absent board member and absent board member would be allowed to review the record uh the video as well as the uh the tape recording and then provide a vote. I appreciate that. >> Uh that doesn't guarantee you get the fifth vote, but it entitles you to the
seven votes uh seven uh members voting and participating that you're entitled to. So Mr. B explain the the uh the variance thing >> one variance you get one bite in an apple this is a use variance or a devariance which requires five
affirmative votes ordinarily it's a majority of the quarant there's five people here you need three seven people you need four with this kind of variance I need five if if Mr. Frick and you decide I want to see a site plan before I before I allow this. I get then I have
four votes and and it fails. I can't bring that back. He it's it's uh race should I am I am not allowed to bring back the same application twice >> ever >> 10 years.
>> This is like land use. >> Look, I'm not saying I'm not saying that's a strong army you guys. I just want to understand that's all that's the law. >> And I'm not saying to strongarm you guys. I would I had no intention of even having going into that explanation because I sit here in count six. I'm
like, "Oh, there'll be a problem." Um >> so one of the things that I did want to address that uh that some of the board members have indicated uh concern with is with respect to um having no teeth or
requiring them to uh to do things but losing control once they receive their variance. So, one of the conditions that you could put in the or I could put in the resolution for you is the specific condition that they return to this board
within 6 months. >> You guys could say four. You guys could say four months >> or whatever to provide for site plan approval uh and have that testimony and work with the prof board's professionals to ensure that you get what you want.
>> I have a question on that. If they don't, what happens? >> Uh they fail. the so they haven't met the the conditions of the resolution so it gets shut down. >> You shut it down. I mean look six months is six months is >> how does that get shut down? you have a
lease >> because I understand what you're saying like what's the process of the city to say okay you you didn't come back like are we just send sending somebody to knock >> our land use administrator and code enforcement officer would serve them uh
with notice that they have failed in their conditions on use variance and the use variance no longer exists >> certain amount of days to get out of the building >> yes it's not like residential landlord tenant protections you don't have I don't have commercial property >> no I I Okay. >> All right. So, let's uh let's get back
to what we were doing. Ryan, do you have a report for us? Do you want to >> Yeah. >> go over your report before we do the report. >> We get into all this other >> other stuff here. Sure. So, I'll start on uh our second page. I think everyone has a pretty good idea of what um is
there, what's being proposed. Um again, what they're seeking is um excuse me, use variance relief. Um and they the cyclone waiver we've already discussed. So they've they eliminated that request. Um use variance again would be for a use that's not permitted in the zone and um
two uses on the single site. U there've been two uses on the same site traditionally, but now that one of them is uh not an allowable use or not a um a permitted use. You know, I just wanted to be safe and cover that because it's kind of an expansion of non-informing
use. So um so I think they covered uh Mr. Shaker covered the positive criteria. to discuss the negative criteria. Um that section of our letter just enumerates all of the possibilities for positive criteria and then describes what the negative criteria is and means.
Um we in our in my general comments we had notes about um multi-uses on the site. Um parking and circulation um we didn't really have anything in the application. I think they've explained how parking and circulation would work. Um, obviously I think the primary question
for everyone and I think what everyone thought coming in was that the parking would be in that front lot next to the use and it sounds like that's not proposed to be the case. Um, so we got some clarification that the parking would actually be behind the building. Um, screening and buffering. Um, we
talked about the potential to add that during the site plan. Um, it doesn't sound like there's any screening or buffering proposed at the moment. Correct. >> At the moment. >> Okay. Um, operations. So, we did talk briefly about hours of operation. If the board is considering approval, I would
suggest that we put a limitation on hours of operation now and that can be revisited during the site plan. Um, if that's something that the board is open to um lighting and security, we did talk about that. It sounds like they're going to replace an existing site fence um and they feel they have sufficient lighting, but obviously um site planning would
revisit exactly what the appropriate lighting models are from the site and what's required. Um outdoor storage, we did talk about Um, as a condition of this, there would be no outdoor storage of any materials permitted, only registered vehicles. Um, sounds like there would be crash attenuating trucks and things of that nature, but um, no,
you know, outdoor storage of materials, which we've had a very strict limitation on, uh, in especially in highway commercials. Um, they did address the environmental cleanup on the site. Um, I think there's still some issues to get sorted out with DP, but that that shouldn't really impact the board uh, going forward. And
then we discussed applicability of the pondland. Um so the change use exemption when you're changing from one non-residential use to another as long as that's the only um issue being discussed. There's no proposed site uh revisions which there are none at the moment. Um then you're
you're qualify under that exemption. So I think they'll probably have to revisit that. if we're going to propose things on the site plan, we'll probably need a certificate of filing. Um, but they could address that, you know, in advance of the meeting and submit. Um, so we may want to impose uh if we're if we're
considering a time frame, four months, 6 months, whatever it is that we're considering, um, we may want to require that they submit a certificate of filing in advance of that because that's going to take some time to to get back before they can appear at the board. So, if they don't submit a certificate of filing till the six month mark, we're not going to see them at six months.
it's just going to be impossible because the board doesn't have jurisdiction if this project requires a certificate of filing um until it's issued. So we we can't even hear them until they have a certificate of filing if that's what's required. So I would suggest that we
>> Well, shouldn't they need that right now before they come before us? >> So right so right now there are no changes proposed to the site. So, it's a conversion of one non-residential use to another non-residential use. That is specifically listed as an exemption in the Piland CMP. So, if you're just
switching from one non-residential use to another, whether it requires a use variance or not, you do not need a certificate of filing because there's no change to the site and it's not a residential use. >> So, if the Pineland gives them a problem, this all gets pushed back again. >> Well, that's that's why I suggest
>> Meanwhile, they're running their business. That's why I suggested we should set a deadline for the submission um to the commission to get a certificate of filing so that you know if Pinelands is going to hold things up for a month or two that's not starting at the six month mark right
>> what do you think a reasonable time period within 20 days within 10 days >> uh well no because to submit the certificate of filing you guys are going to have to do the survey and do the design and and um so I mean if we're if we're wanting them back in six months I mean three maybe
>> yeah I have a vacation coming So, four. >> Yeah. >> Um, so I mean it they they essentially need to submit if they're going to come to the board with a site plan that that proposes changes, new asphalt, landscaping, um, you know, things like that, that requires the the issuance of
a certificate filing by the commission. So that's I just wanted to keep that in mind where um you know if we want to see them back in six months we're going to want them to submit for this file. >> We can submit that within 90 days. >> Yeah. >> Within 30 months 90 days. Yeah. >> Okay. So that that would give some time.
Um pelines reviews 30 days 45 is more like it at the moment if you're lucky. Um, so if they submitted and uh had an issue, they should be able to turn around and and still be able to get here in 6 months and not, you know, us be waiting for that certificate of filing process to play.
>> Is there anything we can put on this with this six month >> guesstimate that if they don't show up, all bets are off that this just doesn't start? >> Yeah. Shitty, >> you know. >> Yeah. >> So they don't have what they need in six months, they get out. Everything goes
back to what it was. >> Yes. >> And the And the variance is lifted. >> The variance is lifted. >> Okay. Ryan, >> I have a Sorry. Go ahead. >> Uh, so once we grant a variance on this property, that's forever until somebody,
you know, wants to >> have another variance. >> The variance is subject to conditions. So if the variance had a specific condition that had a time frame on it and they don't meet that condition, then the variance is no longer valid. The variance is specific to this very specific use. >> Yes. Right.
>> It's not it doesn't open it up for a bunch of other storage type uses. It's just exactly what we said tonight. >> Right. So you can switch to a different company or an incredibly similar use. But um but but again if they don't come back with a site plan, it wouldn't that wouldn't carry with the land like it would normally. If you if you approve a
use variance with no conditions um for anyone to come back, then yeah, that carries with the land and it'll be it could be there for the next hundred years. But >> yeah, we can avoid it. Any resolution, we can void it. >> That that's what I'm saying. If if if there's specific conditions imposed in like in this situation, it would not it
would not continue on. It would cease to exist because they did not meet the conditions of the variance. >> Okay. Another question then or food for thought. Uh it I understand that you know they have a tenant and they want to move in and when when we
get applications like this when everybody's in a hurry it it doesn't sit well with the board as as you can tell. Uh so is there a possibility and I don't know this is you know a legal question. Could the city not issue them a
temporary zoning permit to without a variance to uh allow them to get their tenant in there and get moving before we grant any variances give them a conditional permit for 6 months? I don't know if this if this is
possible or not. Uh and then at that time, you know, when the when the permit is timed out, they would have had to been before the board with a site plan and a and a variance request for variance. So I don't believe that the zoning officer, which coincidentally is
also me, has the authority to unilaterally approve an application that would require a use. >> Is that an administrative motion? What's that >> to do that administratively? >> Well, right. So, I I I don't have the
unilateral authority to approve a use that's not expressly permitted in the zone >> as a zoning. Right. So, >> that's why we're here. >> Right. Exactly. So, I I don't to offer that that relief. >> Well, Right. So essentially the board
would be providing that that temporary relief to say if you don't come back with a site plan that we can all agree to conditions on because I think that that's another part that we haven't touched on yet is that if they if the board if they come back to the board for a site plan and there are conditions that you want to impose that they will
not agree to then they've still not not met the condition. So that would still avoid the use variance. So if we come back and we're, you know, and it's been a mess over there and we're going to impose all these conditions and they say no, we say okay, we'll get out. >> So you you do have
>> variance goes away. >> Correct. >> But but you still have a signed lease with those tenants and that's >> that's our problem. >> That's not our problem. >> Let me ask a question, Ryan. Do you think like use varian grant on like conditional basis? So when we come back with the site plan, we also have to vote
on the use variance as a as final relief just to >> No, that gets very messy. Um I I would prefer >> out of the box a little bit. >> Yeah. And this is my uh not my first rodeo but my first rodeo with this board uh and protecting them. I would suggest
that you vote on the use varants uh that you put the conditions that we've described within here because they will it will protect you. They will have to come back. It it is being granted on very specific conditions that they come
back within a certain period of time. Uh for them to come back within a certain within a certain period of time, they had to have satisfied other conditions with other agencies. Uh so they have a heavy lift here and your site plan approval by the way uh that is lurking
out there isn't a rubber stamp uh as you've heard Ryan say that when they come back for site plan approval and you've had a chance to evaluate uh the operation uh you know in a lot of ways this works out for the for the board and the city because you can you know see
what you want at that site and impose that as conditions. Uh the other part um that I would urge the board to consider is the fact that uh you know with respect it didn't come in as clean as
probably you would normally get but there has been some good faith here in that they cleaned up an environmentally toxic site uh that was within the city. So that's already been done. uh they are satisfying issues with D and I noted
that in my notes that in the positive criteria that goes a long way uh cleaning up a dirty site. One other thing I'll say just having a little lengthy history with the board. I think a point a frequent frustration for the board has been we look at a site
plan, we grant an approval and then a tenant tends to go and do whatever they want and we have to rely on code enforcement to take care of everything and that's a difficult job. This circumstance, while a little unique and unorthodox, um, and not necessarily desirable, actually presents you a
second chance to meet with these same people and talk about exactly how they're operating the site and, you know, sort of circle back and say like, look, what you've been doing is not working. We want to see this change. We want you to do this. We want you to screen that side. We want you to, you know, whatever. Um, so while it's again
a little unorthodox and maybe not something we're going to do for every application, it does give you a second chance to meet with these same people and impose conditions on the site sort of after it's up and running instead of having to lean on code enforcement and and deal with that frustration. So
think about >> any questions from the board. >> Um, yeah, is six months enough time? I mean, if they could submit the certificate of filing in 90 days, I think six months should be enough time
because um that process, even if you submit and Pinelands has an issue with it, they can issue a certificate of filing that's incomplete, meaning it's not consistent with their rules. So, as long as you submit um like a technically complete application, even if it doesn't meet their rules, they still have to give you a certificate of filing. And
even if it's incomplete, we can still hear it. >> Okay? So if if they can get a certificate filing in within 90 days, we should be able to get back to this board within 6 months. >> And the other thing that's op optimistic about that is that the site changes that
I'm hearing that may be proposed are more cosmetic in nature to, you know, go along with the highway commercial district. It's not, you know, other than maybe paving if there's some paving done. Uh that's a disturbance that highlands is always interested in,
of course. Uh but uh you know most of these things you know I'm cautiously optimistic that they will qualify for uh a change of use exemption >> questions. You good? >> Good.
>> Remember I got to come back here and face you guys. It's got to work >> your reputation procedure. >> I got to come back and face you. >> All right. So, uh, I guess we're going to need a motion.
And let let let's Mr. Tiny, you're going to come up with a motion. You're going to a word the motion. I would I would suggest from me that you strongly put a deadline on this. >> Okay. >> And make sure that you guys are okay with the deadline because once
>> once this happens to the public, >> once this happens, the deadline is the deadline. So, prior to doing that though, we have uh we have to open it up to the public for comment. Yep. >> But I will start working on that. >> Yep. Anybody here from the public would
like to voice their opinion, sir? >> Come up and get sworn in. >> James M. >> Okay. How do you spell your last name, sir? C A L L I N >> I Okay. Men,
uh, do you solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole truth? Not to let the truth out. >> I do. >> Okay. >> Couple questions I have. Obviously, I own all the ground around this site. 8 acres. I bought the shift propert.
and I own the acme across the street which we're going through the process now of doing everything that I guess they should have done right to get approvals and whatnot. So I have a question my my biggest I just found out about this 5
days ago because I got a certified letter two certified letters one from from 111 New York Avenue from 3034. So that's the that's the address I have is 3034 White Pipe. So you know we were wanting to do something big and grand
and I'm talking to Lisa about it and whatnot. So, I don't know what this does to our site, you know, I'm in the construction industry. I was in the highway construction. Another thing is most of that work's done at night. Okay. So, I don't know. I mean, I don't
know where they pay for during the day. I mean, most of it's done at night. So, I don't know what it's going to do or affect us and my site. But listen, I owned it before I owned the big site. Um,
I'm I was kind of concerned when I started hearing about the uh contamination on the site and where it is and if they have a clean letter from the state and no further action suit and how far did it leech like it might have leeched onto my property. So, we don't
know that. So, I want to know I want to see that. I I should have a right for that. Um, And I guess uh I know it's a gateway coming in and I don't know if it's the right use or not. I listen I mean there's plenty other
places you can put that but so so okay. So if this is allowed and you guys move this in so what does that do to my property? Are we like able to bring a big contractor in like old construction or or something like that for with their paving equipment and all?
because I've had plenty of calls for that and I was told that it's not permitted. So now if it is permitted, that's the route we're going to need to go. You understand? So that's that's that's all I have to say. >> When did you purchase your property,
sir? >> I purchased it about a year ago. >> And the Acme site >> about four or five years ago. >> Yeah. >> And what? >> Well, we have a tenant. We have a tenant lined up. He's he's um he's doing what
he Ryan knows. He's been doing what he has to do. We've had plenty of meetings. We sat before. I don't know about you guys, but we've had many, >> you know. >> Yeah, they're >> they're going through their pine land stuff. I mean, we're going through the pine land stuff now, even though
>> they they're amending the redevelopment plan that applies to the Acme property um for cannabis cultivation. So that's not a permitted use of the zone either. Um they decided to go the route of amending the redevelopment plan which requires action by the city referral to
the land use board back to the city. Um and then they come to work site. >> And you have right now you have someone in that site right now working or >> are they working on the building? >> No, it's their hand on it. It's out of
my hands. Like it would be like if there Riley was here tonight, which I thought should have been here and would have been here because he would tell you how he runs his business. So Ryan knows, the mayor knows, I guess.
I'm sorry. You're the solicitor, right? >> I am. >> Have you do you know? Uh >> I'm just a land use, not the municipal solicitor. >> I have the door in the city. That's >> Yeah. So Ryan knows he's going It's I'm
the owner of the property, but they're dealing with the city to get, >> right? The ten the tenant is taking care of that process. >> The tenants is taking care of the process. >> But all I'm saying is and and they're going to beautify that the Acme site. We had a meeting last week about that. They
want shrub, they want this, they want that. And that's fine. And my tenant said he would do all that >> in the meantime. That place is a mess. >> Yeah. Well, I Yeah, it is. It's out of my hands now. He bought it from me. He's buying it from me. He's buying the property from you. You currently own it right now. >> I currently do
>> because it is a mess. >> I know. We've had that conversation. He's gonna start hopefully whatever. >> Do you also own the house next to it? >> No. >> Nope. >> No, I don't. >> I don't own the house next to it.
>> It's been Okay. >> Well, it is a mess. >> Yeah. So, we've had >> You might consider buying a dumpster. It's about Well, I'm going to tell you this, too. We just got noticed that somebody felt something behind the building and the zoning official told
me, "Don't worry about it because he's been arrested." >> Whatot. So, I can't control. >> I went by there about a month ago and the trash bags and the trash is flowing out into the street in the back. >> It happened across the street, too. They dump they dumped trash loads of tires at
night. >> It's awful. >> I know. I mean, it all has to be cleaned up. I understand. So, >> you're the owner, sir. >> Yeah. And I have a tenant there and he's he's signed. >> Take control. >> I'm not here for that. That's You want
to have that meeting? >> I'm I'm not I wasn't here for that either. But when you come up to the podium >> and you start asking the board questions about >> I want the I want the report. All I want is the report. >> You're certainly entitled to whatever you're >> talking about site across the street.
I'm not worried about the Acme site. I'm not worried about that. You're talking about the adjacent site to the applicants. That's what I'm concerned. Mr. You want this report that we talked about? Yes. >> So, what you do is you pick up the phone and call the owner. >> That's how that's how that works. >> I didn't know there was contamination issues.
>> You were more than welcome. >> That's fine. >> That's fine. >> There's a more serious environmental in that area than the slop oil across the street. Mhm. >> Yes. >> You you have a gas station that was
located on White >> and I got the report in the ship brothers on the 8 acre site also >> them parking eight vehicles behind a building that the building is going to shield. I don't honestly see how it's going to deterior deteriorate. >> That's fine. I just don't know what it's
going to do to that zoning. what we should do. I mean, if it's if that's allowed, if this is allowed that use, >> I don't care. >> We take each thing on case by case. You can you're welcome to come in and make application or variance for anything that you want. And we, you know, we consider that
it's there there's no hard fast rule. I mean, the zoning can be changed by variance. The site plan can be approved with conditions and all that. So, you know, we entertain any and all options. Mhm. >> Uh we're trying to get buildings occupied and and and >> I understand
>> and and do it the right way. >> Yeah. And I understand your thing about my property. We had a meeting about that. What you just said >> we had a conference call about what what you just said. We had a conference call last week and we're taking care of that. So I mean it's not being ignored. I know
Steve will call me if the grass gets too high. What? So >> Steve's not here anymore. >> Oh, he's not in a couple weeks. >> Yeah. He he he has this um blame, he he calls me. >> Well, this property has been a mess for a long time. >> Well, it's going to get cleaned up.
>> A mess. It's been a mess since the Acme closed. >> It's going to get cleaned up. >> It's been going downhill. I've been here my whole life. >> Every time I go by there, I look at it. >> Yeah. Um so, >> all right. Yeah. No, I got you. I got you. >> I just want I like I said, I got this
notice, two notices for both of my ads. So I just we're concerned about across the street because that one we want to do something, you know, it's a big site. We want to do some something maybe some kind of house. I don't know. We don't know yet.
>> Figure it out. You know, >> I don't know. We've had a lot of people come in and a lot of people go back and forth and then it goes to the next guy and the next guy and the next guy >> and the acne always looks the same. >> Mhm. So, and I know you said I didn't come up
here for this, but when you do come up here for this and you open yourself up, then you open yourself up to >> But in all fairness, what you're talking about was already discussed and taken care of. >> I have no idea. >> Were you at the meeting for that >> when that came up?
>> Were you at the um I'm sorry, >> Donna? Excuse me. >> Not yet. We're not there yet. We're still talking to him. >> So, um, last week
we had a conference call about the and they told me that somebody had dumped trash behind the building just like across the street and they caught them and they were arrested and they're on the hook to clean it up. >> Am I right? Yeah, I know that there was
>> All right. So, yeah, we've already I already been aware of that. Very good. I'm sorry. I I live up north. I haven't >> and All right. >> Okay. Very good. Thank you. >> Is there any other member of the public?
>> Kim, New Orleans Avenue. I just wanted to say >> I'm sorry. How's the last name? >> H E S E. >> H E S E. Okay. And that address again, New Orleans, >> 236 New Orleans Avenue. >> Okay. And could you raise your right
hand, please? So swear your testimony you're about to provide will be a truth, all truth, and nothing but truth to God. >> I do. >> Okay. >> I just want to say thank you to the committee up here. And I also wanted to say, Mr. Frick, I agree with you. you
know, we're trying to clean up city and especially the white horse pipe at Philadelphia Avenue and um if we could get something, you know, um different in there and move those type
of businesses to the industrial part that would be great. However, I do if if we can to me I feel taking every step to make sure that the property is in good good condition
that it is landscape that it is the trash is removed that we do everything that supposed to do when you when you come in here and you say that you're going to do it. I think it's because too
many times it doesn't happen. You say one thing and and something else happens. So I really really hope that you can do the right thing because we do have new new um code enforcement.
So we will be moving forward with with our ordinances now. So I just want to say thank you very much. And um the other thing is I didn't hear anything mentioned other than Mr. Peterson about the the trash containers on the property
and I guess that >> it' be behind the Yeah. No, it's behind the the fence. So they're not not going to be on the street. It's not directly on the street. >> Could you point it out? >> Could you point it out? >> Yes. >> Is this a temporary spot? >> There's current there's currently
nothing on site, but they will be behind here. So it'll be behind fencing. So, >> yeah, there'll be an enclosure. So, back it's not going to be >> that would be something that would be done in the in the uh plan >> for something permanent. >> Pardon me there. There's no there's no
such plan. We'll take care of that because I know there's a particular way the trash work. They they don't they haven't been we will have to please specify. >> Well, they didn't cut.
>> Yeah, they're cut. Yes, exactly. >> Thank you very much everyone. >> Thank you and apologies. >> Anyone else like to be heard? >> All right, we're going to close the public comment on this and uh
we got to come up with a motion. Okay. So the uh based on the testimony provided on the application for the subject site which is 6 white horse pike block known
as block 526 lot 11.01 located in the highway commercial zone. Uh the applicant being Lub DMB White Pike LLC. Uh the motion would be to approve
uh a D1 use variance as well as a D2 uh variance for the expansion of a non-conform pre-existing non-conforming use uh based upon the following conditions that the applicant must return to this court
within 6 months uh seeking site plan approval uh or or else their use variance shall be voided. Uh if they don't return and if they return and site plan is not approved the use variance uh if granted
use variances if granted shall be voided. Uh also it's based on the condition that the hours of operation uh for the business that is situated on the property will be from 8:00 a.m. to 6:00
p.m. If that's reasonable, >> that's his testimony. >> I would uh I'd be careful on that. whole company isn't going to work at 8:00 a.m. I would say if you give them 6 a.m. to 6 p.m. >> 6 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. >> 6 to 8 >> 6 to 8
>> 6 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. >> But with eight trucks they're not doing the expressway with that that's coming out of a different yard. They're going to do small stuff like that. Okay. um hours of operation uh 6 a.m. until
8:00 pm that only uh registered vehicles will be parked in the rear of the building. uh that all industrial tools and accessories shall be stored in the garage and that uh employee vehicles uh
will replace uh the eight company trucks that are uh parked there overnight. Um Ryan, any other conditions? >> Think so at the moment? >> Okay. Uh but the the key uh the key
conditions here are that the applicant uh reappears before and obtains site plan approval within 6 months where the use variance is voided >> and you guys are okay with six months right not seven six you're okay with it >> certificate 90 days
>> he's giving you an opportunity here >> six is it required >> okay >> and uh the applicant is put on notice that they should file their certificate application for certificate of filing finance commission as soon as time
>> permits within 90 days for sure. >> That is the motion that uh if approved. Uh is there a motion on the floor? >> Is there a motion? >> Make a motion. >> Second. >> No. No. I'm sorry. I think yours must be
discussion. >> Any questions? >> Want to go ahead and have a roll call? >> Mr. Walker? >> Yes. >> Mr. McKenna? >> Yes. >> Mr. Peterson? >> No. >> Mr. Mullen? >> Yes. >> Mr. Frick?
>> No. Mr. Hayes. >> Yes. >> 42. Okay. So, uh, the board member would that be Mr. Bar. Okay. As advised, the applicant is
entitled to uh seven voting members. Uh we only had six this evening. Uh I would urge that uh Mr. Gart hear the uh application as soon as possible and then
uh issue their vote. So uh there is not a vote as of this evening. The record is still open. Uh >> thank you. And uh >> we're going to go for changes to mine.
>> You good with that, Dan? >> I'm good. >> Thank Thank you very much. >> Um yeah, >> so record until Mr. G. Here's the application and uh issues of vote. >> Very good. Thank you, gentlemen. Thank you very much. >> Thank you.
I just look like I still need something. I'd buy the replacement rubber things to put in. >> You're not done. >> Yeah, you'll Yeah, we'll have to watch
it. Well, she was next to him. I just he wouldn't necessarily he'd have to talk about you know not good.
I did. >> I did tonight. >> Okay, I'll let Jackie know. She gave me a list. >> I know. I got an email from her today. >> You're not on. >> All right. What do we got? >> All right. Moving on with the meeting.
We have old business. Any old business? Council report. >> Public comments. Would anybody in the public like to speak? >> Nobody. Questions and comments from the board. >> So, how does Mr. Gar hear about this?
Through >> how will he hear about it? >> Yeah, because he asked >> I'm going to ask Donna to contact. Uh however um the record is open for now. Uh the applicant also has the right and this
might satisfy the board even more to uh amend the application and come back with a complete application site plan and uh variance application all together so that you get the full picture.
>> Why? because we're missing >> amendments. >> Well, if it gets voted down, he can't come back for the >> right. But right now, >> shouldn't it be separate anyway? The variance should be separate from if they were to come in with the application that Mr. Peterson
envisioned, right? >> It would have been an application for uh site plan approval D1 and D2 varants. you would have heard the you would have still been sitting as a zoning board uh with planning board uh jurisdiction over
the site plan. Uh you would have heard that uh all in conjunction with one another and it would have been a a cleaner package. Uh you would have saw the site plans uh the site uh conditions that they were talking about that they
would like to improve. Um you know it's the board heard the application with respect and as Ryan had pointed out normally on this is not uncommon for an undeveloped site right
>> you come in for use variance uh and like you said before dumping a lot of money into a site plan approval you see can we do it you know um the cannabis use on vacant property that
is in highway commercial. Someone wants to do that. They have a vision that they can make that right. They come in, they go for the use variance. Once you granted that use variance, they then come back for preliminary and final site plan approval. That's a typical process.
In this situation, you had a use that's been there, multiple uses, a multi-use site that's been there forever, and you know, someone came in and said, "Well, we want to change that use or expand it slightly, but with the same
framework in place." Uh, but you know, we don't really need to change anything. we can just go in and the and the comment that you know I heard earlier uh I think it was Mr. McKenna said, you know, they're they're kind of doing the same thing that has always been done
there. Uh, vehicles are being parked there. There was a used car lot. Vehicles were parked there. Now, albeit these are different type types of vehicles. Uh, well, so all mechanics there, they're actually lessening the intensity of the use because you won't
have someone working on cars or working on a uh, you know, on uh, other things that are there. Uh, they're literally just coming in. They're storing uh industrial tools and things of that nature in a site and they're coming in
and they improved the they improved it. It's going to be less intense. They have the uh they cleaned up the oil uh contamination and things of that nature. So, uh it was a step in the right direction, but you know, as Mr. used and
say, "Look, you know, you got to at some point I want to see, you know, because I'm used to seeing it. I want to see how that this place is going to look because you've had enough trouble with people that come in and say they're going to do something and and they don't
do it." So now you're this is a situation where you're getting someone that's going to come that's going to say, "Hey, I'm not only going to promise you that I'm going to do it. I'm going to have come back to the board to show you what I'm going to do." So it it was a leap of faith that they were asking
you to to do. Um I think by um you know I think by all accounts that if they showed you in a full package you might come away with a with a different perspective. Mhm. >> Too too many questions that they
couldn't answer >> as far as >> And look, I've been on that side before, so I have uh you know, I'm still on that side and different municipalities throughout the state. Uh so I understand when you don't when you don't carry the day by satisfying what the board wants
for their community. Uh but um that's why you're here. You're the gatekeepers. >> And Mrs. Torres that's usually down there >> or >> uh the she here >> or so is uh Gane an alternate
>> or he's representative for the fire >> for the fire department. >> Oh okay. So um so yeah it would be or Miss Torres. Yeah Miss Torres is a regular board member >> or or both >> is what I'm asking. >> You have to look at the list of regular members. So there's there should be nine regular members of the land use board.
Two of them are city members. So they're ineligible. So it be the seven members. >> It's a regular seven when you're sitting as a zoning board. There are seven members, >> right? >> So would both of members are not here. >> 1 2 3 4 5 6. It would be Torres would be
up to >> he's an alternate here for tonight. Yeah. >> But yeah, he already participated. So >> So contact to listen. >> Yeah. If Gary's an alternate, wouldn't they both be regular members? So I think you're just supposed to work your way
down the list and whoever's >> my understanding. >> Yeah. >> So yeah, it would be Morris. >> And and not John. >> We'll check the list >> or either word. I mean both. If G is the uh is first up alphabetically.
>> That's I just want you to check out their list. >> We need one one additional vote, right? >> Yes. One additional two people participate. He's already sat and heard the application. >> He's already approved it. >> But um be on the lookout for that before
Mr. G or M. >> They had the opportunity to just say, you know what, I I don't like the chance it tonight and just walk away and come back. >> It's hard. >> It's hard to have, but it seems like my problem with this whole thing is rushed. I mean, last week we proposed a meeting. They pushed it this week. Literally,
they were paving that this morning. I think that tenants's ready to move in tonight. I mean, I don't It just seems >> close by forced. >> Yeah. I mean, so the the site work any I mean, anything that's there, they're allowed to restore without permit. So, I mean, if if they were going to move a a
permit use, a retail shop, a car mechanic, frankly, if they were going to move them in, they could do all of the same things and they could move in tomorrow or as soon as they zoning permit approval. So, >> um you know, improvements to the site is not necessarily indicative of, you know, them anticipating this. Obviously, that's what's motivating them, but um
you know, that's that's not something out of normal course of visit they're allowed to, >> right? We're just looking for a change of the use. >> Sure. >> But this isn't even for the homeowner. This is for a tenant. So, if we don't approve it, there's going to be another tenant there. I mean, I'm assuming
>> Well, not for this type of use. >> We've been saying that about the Acme slave for 10 years. >> Yep. Yep. >> So, it's the same. And that's that's exactly the way I felt that actually been sitting there ever since I can remember. And so many people have promised everything to the city and done
nothing. This guy, at least in show of good faith, paved the parking lot, redid the building, put the DGA down in the backyard, so he's got a good tenant and he looks like he's going to comply with everything that we're asking.
>> That's the way I felt. Yep. >> I felt nobody would have put that kind of money out, you know, and they're not going to comply, especially when they got basically a good tenant. >> How How did they get both of those existing? The mechanic shop and then the
>> Probably predates the 70. >> It was probably >> the someone Mr. Garnick lived in the house and he had a garage out front. >> How did the uh the massage place just open up? Anybody know? I know when they you drove by there was a light in the window and said >> flashing light open or something. >> Okay.
>> Yeah. Yeah. That that I can't uh I can't speak to but I mean presumably at some point they applied to um you know at some point they applied for a merkantile license. It may have been may have predated the highway commercial zone. I don't know on the timing. So
>> hard to say. But I wanted to circle back to your question um that you asked to Mr. Tiner. I think just from a point of order the way that we vote on these when it is a use variance and site plan we vote on the use first is if the use fails the site plan exactly
>> so in the voting order when we hear an application that they do come in with the site plan but they require use variance we we form the full vote we vote on the use variance first and then we move to the second >> Okay. All right. Any other questions or comments from the board? We're good.
>> Motion to adjurnn. >> Motion. >> Second. >> Second. So many time. So, >> and I've already What's funny is I've already done it. See?