--------- United States of America to the stands indivisible. >> Very much. Is that roll call? >> Roll call. Sharon Nickerson >> here. Vice Chair Martin >> present. >> Member Irvine >> present.
>> Member Winters >> here. >> Member life board is not here. Also present for the record Janice Jacobe village clerk. Christ village manager and Joseph Geller village attorney. You have a quorum. >> Thank you very much. Appreciate it. Um do I have a motion to approve the agenda? >> So moved.
>> Moved by Vice Chair Martin. >> Second. >> Second by is that counc. >> Yes. All say I. >> I say nay. Hearing none agenda item >> number one is E1 that's 24 Northwest 86
street >> the clients are the clients here also for 4 Northwest 86th Street. Yeah. Can you come to the other? >> Yes. Good evening. Um, this is an application requesting a variance to convert a garage to a living area within
an existing resident at 24 Northwest 86th Street. The site is 29,150T lot that currently contains a 1940 single family home. The proposed residential use is permitted um in the chapter 24. The proposed garage
conversion will create a bedroom and a bathroom. The front of the home will remain as is and the garage door will be replaced by a single window. The home was reviewed under the code and found to be consistent and garage conversions are allowed through variance process. Um just to note that off- streetet parking
is provided in the existing driveway and the recommendation is for approval. >> Very much. Any questions comments from committee? >> Seeing none. Any questions or comments about this particular item from the audience? Hear seeing none. Coming back to the committee, do I have a motion to
approve? >> So moved. >> Do I have a second? >> I will second. >> Moved by council person Winters. Second by council person. >> Roll call. Council person Winters. >> Yes. >> Council person. >> Yes. >> Vice Chair Martin.
>> Yes. >> Chair Nickerson. >> Yes. Motion passes 4 to none. >> Thank you very much. Um, when you get a chance, you'll have to talk see the the clerk and you have to see the clerk tell you. >> Thank you.
>> Next one is E2. That's 1910 Northwest 3rd Avenue. It's another garage closure. >> Yes. This applicant is requesting a variance to convert a garage to a living area at the existing residence 9010 Northwest 3rd Avenue. The site is 8,025
square feet um and that currently contains a 1955 single family home. The proposed residential use is permitted and the proposed garage conversion will create a bedroom and a bathroom. The garage door will be replaced with a single window um not included in this variance is an additional combination a
combined 291 square feet at the back of the house and a converted front patio. The home was reviewed under the code and found to be within the standards and garage conversions are allowed through the variance process and off- streetet parking is provided in the existing driveway. The recommendation is for
approval. >> Very much appreciate that. Any questions or comments from the committee? Seeing none, any questions or comments about the particular item from the audience? >> Seeing none, back to the committee. Do I have a motion to approve? >> So moved. A second.
>> Second. >> Moved by council person Winters. Second by Vice Chair Martin. Please have a roll. >> Roll call. Council person. Hey. Member Winters. >> Yes. >> Member Bal. >> Yes. >> Vice Chair Martin. >> Yes. >> Shar Nickerson. >> Yes.
>> Motion passes. Four to none. >> Very much. Appreciate that. >> Next item is 3. That's 311 Northeast 90th Street. 311 Northeast 90th Street. Another garage enclosure.
>> Yes. Our final garage enclosure application tonight. Um, again, another variance to convert a garage to a living area. The residence is at 311 Northeast 90th Street. The site is 6750 ft in size and currently contains 1950 single family home. The proposed
residential use is permitted and the after the-act garage conversion created a bedroom. The garage door will remain in place. There is a code violation on this conversion currently, but this will um alleviate that if it is approved. The home was reviewed under the code and
garage conversions are allowed by by code through the variance process. Off- streetet parking is provided in the existing driveway and the staff recommendation is for approval. >> Where's the comments from the committee? Hearing seeing none questions or comments from
the audience. Seeing none, back to the committee. Do I have a motion to approve? >> So moved. >> Do I have a second? >> I will second. >> Moved by member Winters, second by member. Madam cler call. >> Roll call. Member Winters.
>> Yes. >> Member Bomb. >> Yes. >> Vice Chair Martin. >> Yes. >> Sharon Nickerson. >> Yes. >> Motion passes four to zero. Also for the record, um, member Lightoot Ward is present. >> Very much. Thank you. >> Thank you,
>> ma'am. >> Next one. E4. This is 8900 Northeast 4th Avenue. This is a site plan addition. >> Yes. Um, this applicant, John Nabati, is requesting site plan approval for construction of an addition to an
existing residence at 89004th Avenue. This site is 9,990, sorry, 9,590 ft and is currently contains a single family home built in 1946. The proposed residential use is permitted under the code and the proposed home addition is
to create a second story which will be a total of 3,155 square ft. There will be five bedrooms and four bathrooms and have a facade update and a new semic-ircular driveway is proposed. An additional 299 square feet will be added to the house's
footprint. Um the home was reviewed under the code and um complies with the standards for site plan approval and that is staff's recommendation that it is approved. >> Very much questions comments from the council
or the committee. Question from questions or comments from the audience. >> I have one question. >> Um, are there any changes at all from the last time that we saw this application? >> This should be the first time you're
getting >> That's what I thought. Okay. So, um, are there any issues whatsoever with the setbacks? >> No. >> Okay. That's my question. >> Any other questions or comments from the
committee? >> Did we take a long time? >> Did we take a long time? >> Sorry. What took a long time? >> Did we take a long time on this one? >> Did we take a long time to review it? >> Yeah. And >> no, I think just the standard amount of
time. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Okay. Any questions or comments from the committee? Hearing seeing none, do I have a motion? >> Motion to approve. >> Motion moved by member Winter, second by
member Ward. Roll call. Um, member Winters, >> yes. >> Member Lifewood Ward, >> yes. >> Member Urban, >> yes. >> Vice Chair Martin, >> yes. >> Chair Nickerson, >> yes. >> Motion passes 5 to zero.
>> Very much. Moving on to E5. This is 124 Northwest 89th Street. It's a site plan addition. >> Yes, we have another um request to construct addition to an existing home. This one is at 124 Northwest 89th
Street. This site is 9,940 ft in size and currently contains a single family home built in 1940. The proposed residential use is permitted under this chapter 24. The proposed home addition is to the rear of the house. It will be 3,95 square feet and have three
bedrooms and three bathrooms. Um, it conforms with all standards of our code and no variance are requested and approval is recommended by staff. Comments or questions from the committee? Any comment questions from the audience?
>> Do I have a motion to approve by the committee? So moved. Second. >> So moved by Vice Martin, second by member Ward. >> Roll call. Member life. Member Winters. >> Yes. >> Member Lightoot Ward.
>> Yes. >> Member Bomb. >> Yes. >> Vice Chair Martin. >> Yes. >> Chair Nichson. >> Yes. >> Motion passes 5 to none. >> Thank you very much. Moving on to E6. This is 151 Northeast
88th Street. >> Okay. This is um another addition to a home. Um this applicant is James and Robert Crew. They're requesting site plan approval. Um the residence is located at 151 Northeast 88th Street. This site is 8,662
ft in size. Currently contains a single family home built in 1954. The proposed residential use is permitted and the proposed home addition is on the side and rear of the house. It will be 2,868 square feet, have three bedrooms and two bathrooms. And again, this one comp
conforms with our code and no variances are requested and staff recommends approval. >> Questions or comments from the committee? >> Questions or comments from the audience? Back to the committee. Do I have a motion to approve? >> So moved. >> Do I have a second?
>> Second. >> Motion moved by Vice Chair Martin. Second by Council Person. Member Light Ward. Madam Cl. >> Roll call. Member Winters. >> Yes. >> Member Lifewood Ward. >> Yes. >> Member Urban.
>> Yes. >> Vice Sher Martin. >> Yes. >> Sher Nickerson. >> Yes. >> Motion passes by. Thank you very much. >> B7 94 Northwest 91st Street. >> Yes. This application is requesting site
plan approval for construction of a new single family residence. The location is 194 Northwest 91st Street. This site is 19,600 ft in size. Currently, there is an existing home that was built in 1939. The proposed residential use is also
permitted in the code and the proposed home is to be one-story at 4,284 square feet in size. It will have five bedrooms and 5 and a half bathrooms and a threecar carport. The home was reviewed under the code development standards and it is consistent and no variances are
requested. The proposed design is for new residential represents a somewhat contemporary architecture but it is proportionate and scaled to compatible with the neighboring homes. Um the recommendation is for approval of this new single family home. The um the
applicant um may still have an outstanding um application um with DURM and that would be the one condition of approval that that is satisfied. >> Very much questions, comments from the committee. >> What is the outstanding issue with DURM
>> for a tree a tree permit? >> So I have a few questions. Um it's probably not just one tree, right? because I see on your property you have multiple that have orange tags around them and you have a lot of live old oaks there and you have a full on hedge your
your your property looks like sherid forest but on the west side >> sorry could you could you repeat that sorry >> there's a lot of trees >> yes >> yes so u as you're going to be uh building the new project how are you going to maintain the the ambiance
maintain the trees and and protect them along the way So we even before and the our architect is here David if he can come that's fine but even before we started the the planning we actually did
it around the fact that it has a lot of vegetation and beautiful trees and that's something that we want to definitely conserve >> exactly we are not touching any any protected tree just the trees in the back of the properties okay where are the the the >> his name
>> through David I'm sorry David Perez. So, we are not touching the the a lot of trees, just three trees, I I guess in the back and and we are planting more trees. >> So, which trees are you touching in the back? >> Avocados and mangoes.
>> Okay. Uh and the oak trees are not going to be touched. >> Not touching the trees. >> And the three trees in the front yard that have the orange ribbons around them, what are those? >> We are not touching those trees. And we are planting more trees in the front. >> Could you tell us why they've been marked? >> Excuse me. >> Why have they been marked? Oh, >> they have been marked that because they
were um when they did the tree survey, those are in the line and they were not sure if those are ours or the neighbors and it actually happens that are right in the line. But those trees are not going to be touched at all and you can see in the sub is reflected those three right by the line.
>> So those trees are split between two properties. >> Yes. >> Okay. And will the roots get in the way of your driveway? >> No. >> No. Okay. And the front hedges in the front yard, are you touching any of those? >> We we we want to maintain a maximum of
the the the existing visitation vegetation to >> So >> So >> So we are not touching that. We are trying to to preserve a maximum of plants. >> When we saw the property, the beauty of it, it was actually the vegetation. >> Okay. >> So it's it's just gorgeous.
>> Beautiful vegetation. I just want to make sure that it's going to be maintained because it's it's definitely a beautiful >> beautiful piece of property. Um, >> and it's one of the older homes here. It was 1936, right? >> 1939 is the >> 1939. >> Yeah. Is the house? Yes.
>> Was there anything wrong with the house right now? >> Was there rot? Was it spalding? Was it falling apart? I mean, >> yeah. >> Yeah, she has she has some some issues with the some elements, some some structural elements of the house. What's
the current construction of the current house? >> Is wood. >> Is it wood? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> That's it. Thank you. >> Any other questions or comments from the committee? >> Did they say they were going to have mangoes on that property? >> Sorry.
>> You have mangoes on that property? >> Yes. >> Remember me. >> I wish I can. I have not tried one because the animals get the mango. So I >> But yes, sure. Any other questions or comments from
before I go to the only thing I'm worried about you all is that um unlike everything else, this is a new site plan. It's not a addition or a garage conversion or anything like that. And I just think that we have to be really careful about new site plans um
residentially because you know we do have like a certain character in Alberta as far as our homes go and if we change that character then we won't be kind of like who we are. That's the only thing I'm kind of worried about. um you know this
home is a you know a older Key West style home that they don't build anymore and just who we are as a community we we appreciate the different character of the different homes in Alberta. Um so that's the only thing I'm kind of
apprehensive towards and worried about but I'll go to the audience first uh for questions and comments. >> Greg Steer 120 Northwest 86 Street. I just want to echo the mayor's comments. Uh first of all, I'm not sure why we allocate 30 minutes to a planning and
zoning meeting that has seven different agenda items on it. That's about four minutes per agenda item. Uh actually, it's less because the mayor was late, but um this is a complete tearown of a house that's almost 100 years old. 194
Northwest 91st Street was built in 1939 when FDR was in the White House. It was part of the New Deal housing initiative. Germany was invading Poland. This was just two years after Elportal was incorporated, which by the way was done mainly because they wanted to enact
stricter zoning laws. This house has survived 32 major hurricanes. And we're going to spend what, four minutes, and then vote, which I guarantee you will be to approve uh and move this item on. And what do we
get in its place? A 4,000 square foot generic concrete block. No offense to the architect. Some people like that style. It has five bedrooms, five and a half bathrooms, and of course, the requisite threecar garage. Who here has
a three-car garage? Is this the new Elportal that the present council envisions for our future? I think we're erasing our history one house at a time. And in s so doing so we're destroying the very
character as the mayor said that makes El Portal so special. If you really loved El Portal you would figure out a way to add to this h house and not demolish it. Thank you >> very much. Any other questions or comments from the audience?
>> Oh yes of course. Alexandra Vasa, 120 Northwest 86 Street. Um I'm here to spoke to speak about transparency and accountability um and the resident participation on planning and signing process. We've been told that the Serbia was uh
going to be um delivering the the updated signing and design recommendations for the portal um by the end of the fall. Here it is the end of the year and we still don't have those recommendations. It's a it is a framework to protect our village unique scale trees and historic
character while guiding respons responsible growth. However, uh those recommendations yet have to be seen. The delay leaves the village making development decisions without any updated updated standards or design
guidelines. At the same time, projects continue to be approved rapidly. sometimes seven projects in a single 30-minut minute minute often with little or no discussion about lot coverage through preservation or historic impact. Almost every project gets approved
regardless of those factors. It raises serious concern concerns about the due process and the community standards are truly being upheld. This lack of structure has lasting con consequences. Every project approved without environmental architectural or
contextual reviews creates irre irreversible impacts from tree loss and increased flooding uh and erosion of erosion of our village identity and property values. What makes my this con situation even
worse is concerning the airport has no active citizen boards. No, no advisory commi committees where residents can participate in decisions that directly affect their neighbors. Section 705 of our charter clearly states that a charter revision
commission at least seven residents should be appointed to review and recommend updates to our charter. that mechanism and the broader principles of resing participation in what ensures checks and balances transparency and responsibility in local local governments. So tonight I'll
respectfully ask the council to provide a clear update of the delivery on time timeline of blood service recommendation clarify how planning and suning decisions are being evaluated without those up updated standards and u to
please take immediate steps to activate resident boards starting with the chartered revision commission required under section 705. Residents are not asking to slow down process progress. We are asking to strengthen it to make it stronger through inclusion, clarity and
accountability. Our villages strives when its people are involved, informed and empowered to protect what makes Elortal special. Thank you >> very much. Any other questions, comments from this audience, Velvet Connelly, um 355 Northeast 87th
Street. So, I do think it's on the village to look at properties and perhaps earmark them for historical preservation. I think it's if somebody has purchased a property and they think that they can do something with it, then it's kind of like a bait and a switch to then come later and say, "Oh, you can't
do this because it's historical." But I do think it is important that we preserve the historical character of the community. But that's on I think the council or the management to look over these properties that we have in our communities, especially something like this that's almost hundred years old and
then to earmark that as a historical property to protect it from being demolished, you know, in the future. So, you know, not sure on that standpoint, you know, who the onus was on. I don't think it's necessarily on the person who purchases a home and then thinks that
they can do something with it to find out later that maybe there's push back, but I think the community should preserve the historical character maybe through the village. >> Thank you very much. Any other questions or comments? >> Greg Steer 120 Northwest 86. Just to
clarify, the council has every right to say no to this daredeown. You buy a house, that's those are the chances that you take that you go before the council and they say no because it's incompatible with the rest of the neighborhood or the village or whatever. So, they have every right to vote it
down. >> Any questions or comments from the audience? >> Adam Simon, 360 Northeast 85th. I I echo Mr. Steer's entire um you know what he said before. I think that this house is absolutely gorgeous.
You know, I I would say and that's my opinion. He bought the house. My opinion doesn't matter. But I would say if in my opinion if this house was falling apart, it was infested with something that was going to make the house crumble in the
next 10 years. Um there would be a right to take a hundred year old house and just completely knock it down. I just don't understand why somebody would pay almost one and a half million dollars for a beautiful house and then go in and tear it down two months later when
there's a hundredyear um history on this house that from what I heard is one of the oldest houses in Elportal. I mean this is this is an incredibly beautiful piece of property and house that you bought. So kudos to you. I just think it's crazy to approve
something with such historical value to tear it down and build something. And again, you know, taste is taste. I think that's a beautiful house also. I just don't think it belongs in to replace something like this. So if you maybe there's a way to take the current house
in its in its style in the way that it looks and build upon it add to it create something similar that gives the history look of what of what this house represents but I think taking it to that
um you know doesn't make sense for this for for El Patel. Thanks. >> Thank you very much. Any other questions or um comments from the audience? >> Hi, my name is Juliana Kolinger, 8650
Northeast Miami Court. Um back in 2022, right after the pandemic, we um did some updates on our house. When we bought our house 10 years ago, it was a less than,200 1,200 square feet house, uh, two-bedroom, one bath from 1940, 1930.
And when we bought the house, our idea was in fact to renovate it to add on to it. And we did. Now we have a fourbedroom, three, no, fourbedroom, four um, four bedroomedroom, four bath house with a nice den in the back. And
what we did is we actually expanded upon the house that was there. We also took um we also made it uh blend in with the neighborhood. We were very conscious about it. And I have to say everyone in the neighborhood appreciates it. I think
we have a beautiful home that we were able to um really make and meet our needs. So, I just want to say I'm a testament that it is possible to do something like that from a very little house, a 21 uh house that we did and still keep the charm of El Portell.
Thank you. >> Of course, >> very much questions or comments from the order. >> Okay, seeing none, let's come back to the committee. Um,
so couple of things. So first of all in the charter under section 4.01 it says the mayor shall appoint this is about the committees the mayor shall appoint a council person
to be chair and other members of the council as members of each committee. It's in the charter section 4.01.
Okay. The mayor also shall be ad hoc chair to each committee. So, we can start resident boards, which I've started. I see a few people in here that's already on some of my resident boards. Um, but as far as the official
committees under section 4.01, 1 the mayor shall appoint a council person to be the chair of to be the chair and other members of the council as the members of each committee.
Okay. Um as far as the uh the charter review committee uh that's a different entity and that's something that attorney Geller clerk Jacobe um will have more information on. actually chose
the charter committee. Uh it was a year or so ago or something like that. So there was already was chosen it was all all uh residents but I believe there's still room open for more residents to be part of that committee. But that's about the charting
itself. And what happens with that is so every um I believe it's 10 years or 15 years we have to do a charter committee review. And so that residential committee what they do is they come together and they'll say well you know what I was looking at the charter and as a committee I'll say we think that you guys should change this or this should
be adjusted or this should be adjusted and what that is that are those are suggestions and then that comes to the council and then we choose by majority vote what we may want to change in the charter. Then depending on what we want to change in the charter, that goes out at the next
general election to a referendum to be voted on by the residents of Alberta and it has to pass a I think a 60 or 65 cent uh level to be implemented and then it's changing the charter. So that's the charter uh
committee review by our residents. Come on up, Miss Bos. Go ahead. Okay. Alexandra Vasa 120 Northwest 86 Street. Um I understand that that is the purpose
of the of the chart that charter. Uh I believe it's every seven years which is you know overdue. Um but also I don't understand what is the point on having all the uh com you know all the members you know and every single I mean it is
beyond redundant it's pointless and you know a lack a big loss of opportunities we are a community of professionals business owners I I think there's plenty of people here who can give excellent you know advisory to the town thank you
>> thank you and that's not to say we disagree, but you have to take that over our our our predecessors who created the charter. They're the ones that put it in. To get anything changed in the charter, it first has to come to the council, passed by majority vote, then in the next
general election, the residents vote on that change. It's a referendum, and it has to, I think, be at least 60 or 65% over. If you guys remember, and I said this in the previous meeting when this came up, um in the last general election, there was a a item that was uh
marijuana, recreational use. That night of the election, you know, I love government and elections and stuff. So, when I was looking at all the results, I was like, "Oh, it got like 56% of the vote." It still failed. We don't
have recreational marijuana because it had to reach a threshold of like 60 or 65%. I think it was 60, right? Okay. So, that's what we have to do to change anything in the charter and it was written by the individuals who first
came and did this community and that's what they put in the charter and those are the rules that we govern by um back to the committee. Do we have any last questions or comments about this particular problem?
>> Yes, council person. Yes, member life. It doesn't seem like what I've heard doesn't seem like it. >> I don't know either. >> It doesn't sound like it's going to blend with El. And there are enough
people. This is not just you all. There are enough people that have come and they really want to change it. We want to keep it like it is. It's a village. It's not the city of Alpertell. It's the village of Alpertell. I'm sure it's a beautiful piece of information. I'm sure
that you're not going to put up anything, but if it outstands and changes the the um how do you call it, mayor, change the atmosphere of where that building is going to be. We're not trying to do that. We're not trying to
make it a Miami city. We want to keep it a village of El Pertell. It's a village. That's what we want. And what you said sounded like something um the Jetsons, you know who the Jetsons were, right? A
cartoon sound like something the Jetsons would do that didn't coincide with what we had. Had you brought a a a portrait of what it was going to look like, I'm sure everyone would see the picture. But I see pictures when you
speak to uh verbs and when you speak to what's that other thing called? Pictures. when you see it and I I I can see it and it's not gonna match and then we're gonna sit around saying but we approved it. So I I I I generally um it's like
you said you wanted to match but you didn't bring any designs. You didn't bring us anything to let us see what it looks like. >> May May I speak? >> Hold on. Hold on. You're gonna do that to me right now. Huh?
Whenever is the right time, I would love to speak whenever it's allowed. >> Yes. Not yet. Not yet. But I I'm just being blunt. It has happened before and we are not trying to make it happen again. >> No, of course. >> Uh if it's if it's blending, then that's
one thing. But if it's trying to escalate the the value of the of the village so that those of us that have been here 40 years or more, I just look good. Those of us that have been here that
long, >> this is a beautiful village. People even come here for for um what do you call it when you're reviewing uh a city or pieces of the city? people come through here reviewing El Patel. We don't want it to
change. We want it to be you can do whatever you want on the inside, but on the outside, we're not trying to become a village that is not um that has that that has a beautiful history. Alpertell
has a beautiful history. And I can tell you I'm talking because I wasn't given to my racial situation. I was not welcomed here. But with a thrust and a review from my
congressperson, I have been here now 35 years or or close to it. So be we're not prejuditial. We just don't want the village to be changed into something that it is not. And what I'm looking at right now doesn't look anything like the
village. Not even close. Thank you for allowing me to speak. Thank you. Any other questions or comments from the committee? >> All right. Yes. Um, a couple comments and questions. So, um, first I'll just review quickly my concerns and then I'll go through positives. So, um, one
concern I have is that, uh, this is the property that currently has hedge rows, uh, along the front. Is that right? >> Y. >> Okay. Okay. So, it's essentially obstructed view from the street presently. Is that right? There's a pool in the back presently. Is that right? >> What's the condition of the pool right now? >> Is it usable?
>> Is it in excellent condition? Is it in fair condition? >> No, it's cool condition. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Um and uh uh so as far as the present vegetation on the front facing, right?
So that offers quite a bit of privacy. Seems like and and I that is not a typo. That's a 20,000 square foot lot. Is that right? 19,600 feet. Yes. And your proposed construction is 4,000 and tipping the scales just over 4,000.
>> Okay. So, um so one of my primary concerns is that you are you're going to remove the hedges during the construction. You're maintaining those. >> Yes. You're not going to be >> We will probably remove some of them >> for the new driveway
>> to get inside >> for the new driveway. Yeah. Okay. Because presently the driveway is fairly It's like gravel almost. It's pretty torn up, right? Okay. And it kind of comes out of a very hidden pocket as well. Uh I imagine you have some issues with lines of sight just exiting the
property front and backwards. Right. >> We had to um um Okay. So concerns I have are initially if you uh okay you you've answered those questions. So here's the positives.
Uh I will let the residents know that there is nobody else who has ever come in front of us with a 19,600 square foot lot and proposed a modest 4,000 square foot construction. Nobody. I fully expected this thing to
be 9,500 9,800. We have such buildings on other smaller lots. Am I saying something out of school here? I got people yelling at me. I'll find out in a minute when you guys talk
again. But guys, nobody has proposed a 4,000 square foot air conditioned space to us when they have 19,600 square feet available to build on. I'm telling you right now that's a net positive for the village. The design
I do feel it's a little bit office building in its present rendition. I try not to go on renditions too much because renditions are outrageously misleading. I do have one question about the rendition though. Is the water feature that is presently
uh described in the reition is that something that we are committed to as a design? My concern for that is long-term ability to maintain such an item. Again, it has a commercial property feel to it
with the water feature because a commercial property would be able to maintain that over a long period of time. a private residence, I would have unbelievable concerns about the ability to maintain such a feature without it becoming decrepit essentially over, you
know, a period of time or certainly under new ownership in the event that you sell the property, right? Um I am thrilled that we're talking uh fruit trees. Okay. Um Oh, sorry, that was the
previous We're not talking fruit trees on this property. Yes. Okay. Mango. Yes, we are. Yes, that was okay. Okay. So, um uh thrilled. Okay. We also have not had anybody come and say that they're planning fruit trees. So, while I have concerns about the
design, those concerns are a little bit mitigated for a couple of reasons. One, you're going to be maintaining the privacy of the property. We're not talking about a 35 foot height here. >> No. >> What is the height? >> It's right here. I got it right here. Yeah. But um
>> is 14. >> Yeah, it's shorter than the it's shorter than the present property. Correct. >> So in the event that the privacy vegetation is maintained in the front, I don't anticipate this being the eyesore
that people are concerned about. We have had such an example already one time at least in the village that is with a piece of modern construction one-story uh ranch style floor plan and uh it got
all kinds of nicknames and um and people were fairly offended by it. Um myself included initially. Uh but that property has since kind it was designed to become more aesthetic over time. How?
Because there is a there it was designed with a plan to allow for vegetation to both creep on the structure itself as well as uh what they were presenting as far as other vegetation on the property. So in the renditions, because it's a rendition, you want to see the
structure. So there's no vegetation in the renditions, right? So, it looks like a bare space with a bare face with a, you know, with bland features. Again, part of the reason I don't fully go by
renditions entirely. Another positive is, uh, it's not a threecar garage. It's a threecar carport. I know this is not, you know, we're gonna split hairs on that, but a carport
is better than a garage as far as fitting in with the aesthetic of the village. So, I have concerns. I have concerns about the uh commercial feel of the design. I have concerns if that water feature
would be something that would be implemented again because of long-term ability to maintain. Uh and so I will also say this, I do believe in property owners rights and uh we have been through this ad
nauseium over 10 years now. uh and we have established that uh we do not have the capacity to outright prohibit modern architecture in the village of El Portal. We want modern architecture to incorporate multiple textures, multiple uh or not
necessarily multiple but textures and a combination of textures and uh uh facade that fit in with the nature aspect of Elportal. though. Uh so, uh this I think is where it's a little abrasive for a
lot of the residents to try and find within this rendition where the connection to the nature of Elportal is um the driveway. This is one of the most who in the rendition. Okay.
the fact that you have three cars wide and it almost immediately narrows to 12 feet wide, one, you know, one car length, right? Width. Again, uh we usually get the opposite. We get people trying to bring the width of that driveway out as far as they
possibly can. And so, um, so it looks to me that there was a considerable amount of thought put into this with both the landscaping that we've discussed, uh, and, uh, I mean, you could have gone to 35 ft
tall. You could have doubled the square foot. Uh, you could have, uh, tried to hammer out a wider driveway. And so I I am very appreciative in acknowledging that there was a considerable amount of thought put into this design. I don't
know that I'm prepared to dismiss it out of hand at this very first stage. Uh this is where you're going to receive all of the feedback from both residents and the council that you'll take to your architect, talk about possible changes
or strategy for not making changes and selling us on not making changes. um as you know as we would see next time. As far as the existing structure uh uh I life is different now than it was in
1939. I have 1950 construction CBS construction. The thing is built like a tank. It's not going anywhere and it will and it will survive. It survived Irma just fine. It's going to continue to survive. I feel very safe in my home. I have four kids. There's six of us
living in a,200 foot home. I have no closets. My bathrooms are 20 square feet less. Less both bathrooms. Okay. Uh and
so uh there is going to be updated homes especially in this village. We sit in flood zone X. There is probably a trillion dollars on the table right now just for this area east of 95 between
Buena Vista and 119th Street. And that's residential investment coming in. All right. MacArthur Dair is going to its days are numbered. Someone's going to make an offer on MacArthur Dair. Okay. And MacArthur Dairy is going to be gone soon. That entire corridor from Buena
Vista to 119th is where every investor in North America is looking at because it's flood zone X. So, we're going to have to figure out how to coexist with new modern and contemporary ideas
as well as integrate it in with traditional. I'm a mid-century modern guy, okay? I love like mid-century modern. That's me all day long. But here's the thing. I can promise you this, and you can pull the people in the audience. No one cares about my opinion.
I've been told to my face by several of you, you don't care about my opinion. Okay? And that's fine. 100% fine. Okay? That we can't all agree on everything. So, we're boiling down to what does a property owner's rights? What does the
code and charter say? I I agree wholeheartedly, in fact, I've been fullthroated about this, that we need to get the charter commission back up so that we can make changes to the charter. So, having said all of that, I just want to
say it's clear you've put a great deal of thought into this. I would hope that you take questions, concerns, compliments, and complaints um as you move forward and uh you know update renditions and finalize
floor plans and things to that effect. And um uh I would just say for myself personally, I would just um uh consider the long in fact here's my here's my final question. How long do you intend for this property
to exist as it is once it's built? >> Forever. >> That that's an excellent answer and that's exactly what we want to have people with the mind mindset of coming into Elportal. I would like to have something that lasts an extremity into
the future. So, um I don't know how the vote will go because I don't even know how my vote will go uh at this very moment. But um but uh that is all the questions and comments that I have right now. >> Thank you very much. Any other questions or comments from the um committee?
>> Yes sir. So I concur with council person. U as one of the homeowners here in El Patel that has one of the old houses from 1930 and I've done everything in my power to keep it as
original as possible. I would say that if my house was made out of wood, I would not be doing that. But I have block and concrete and it basically a crawl space that's three feet tall. And when water runs past my house, we're just watching the hurricanes pass by. So
I'm also living in Sherwood Forest, which has all of the termite swarms five to 10 times a year. So when I saw your property, I saw the beauty of all those trees. That's why the first question I asked was, "Were you going to maintain the trees?" because that is the way I
see the future of Elportal being everywhere. It's not about the houses here. It's about bringing back the nature around everything. Now, if you go into Short Forest, because you guys are not part of Short Forest, but if you go to Short Forest, many of the houses you cannot see because there's so much
greenery around them and that's beautiful. It's privacy. And when I went to your house and I looked at it, I couldn't find it for a little bit. I was trying to make my way around the hedges. So those that have issues with the construction and the visibility of it,
they're not going to see it. That's the first main step because you're not going to get rid of the shrubs. Correct. >> Correct. >> Right. We're going to hold you to that. >> And the second thing is there really isn't a standard Elbert towel look. We've been trying to figure this out for a long time. And you know, if you're
going to make something that's like he said, gonna last forever, I mean, strong concrete, strong block, I mean, make it so that it's going to withstand a category 6 hurricane when it first arrives in Florida for the first time. That's we want to say, hey, that's was an Elortau house. We want our predecessor to say that that's what we
built here. So, and and what everything and everyone's saying, it's very sad to lose an older property, an older structure, but as we've seen in evidence, like the Coconut Grove Playhouse that stood vacant and empty, full of homeless people for decades
because they wanted to maintain the original ambiance and the original way it was built, it just it destroyed that area. It destroyed that section. And I don't want to see that for Alport. I want to see Alportal grow. I want to see the families grow. So
with your vision for your property, I respect it. Everyone has their own opinion and uh hopefully that uh idea of a unified opera will finally come to a realization. There is no unified look
here. We are all individual houses with different looks and we're not looking like everyone else around us. And we always appreciate that wonderful architectural uni uniqueness. So, um, thank you so much for presenting today.
If anyone else has anything to say, >> there any other, uh, questions or comments? >> I just have one thing. I I do like your design. I think I think it looks really good. And I think that, uh, in the spirit of um, property owners rights,
you get to decide what your dream looks like. um as long as it is in compliance with the rules and regulations that we have set forth and according to the staff recommendation that we just received um you're doing that. Uh the
other elements of it I am very hesitant to um put forth my aesthetic uh preferences onto homeowners. Um so for me the big questions were what's happening with those trees? and it seems
like you have a good solid strong idea on how to preserve uh what I agree is just one of the unique elements of your property. Uh and in addition to that, the staff's recommending approval. We don't have any setback issues or anything like that. Um and I do think
that you have a right to say that you like modern architecture and that you have an idea that your property should look the way that you would like it to. So, um, that's my comments and I I think I'm solid on where where I land on this vote.
>> Thank you. >> Hi, my name is Raquel. Thank you very much. >> Say your address again for us. >> Um, sorry. My name is Raquel. Thank you very much for um your comments. I >> say your address for us again, please.
>> Oh, sorry. My address. Uh, 194th Northwest 91st Street. Um we are a family of four. Um my little one is over there. He's eight years old. Um my husband is with my oldest one who
is 12 years old in a soccer practice right now. Um when we came to Elportal, we fell in love because of the nature. We fell in love because of the environment. to don't talk about my
children. Um especially Enzo who loves um nature. Um because of it um we decided that it wasn't a portal where we wanted to actually build a home. This is not a project that has
been put together in like three days. This is a project that has, as I mentioned, has had a lot of thought. Um, we moved here not that long ago, few weeks ago. And I must say that we also fell in love with the neighborhood
because of the community. The fact that you're all jumping here and giving your opinion, it's because you care and I do care as well because that's where I'm going to have my home. So, I actually appreciate if we don't have to agree with the same taste, but I do appreciate
that you care to be like, "Wait, what's happening in this street? what was happening with this home that is being built. So that's to me I'm like, "Oh, that's positive." Even if I'm here defending my own project. U so thank you everyone. Um we had our neighbors coming
and passing by and introducing themselves. We had a neighbor peril the street behind us calling me finding my own number because a package was actually delivered incorrectly. and I was blown away of this elderly woman who
actually took the time to find me. Um, and that's a portal. That's what I'm grateful for. And this project was thought number one because of the trees, because of the animals, because of the environment. So I actually David who is
the architect wanted to come with me today because he actually care about the project and he can he can confirm that the first thing when we sit down and we talk it was look this garden is absolutely gorgeous and I have been learning about these pieces I had no
idea I don't know much about trees but um but we sit down to say how do we do this house in a way that we embrace the environment because someone has taken care of it and his name is Phil. He lived there for many many years
and the last day he actually left a photo of the old house. Someone left it when he moved and we still today have it and we have it in a frame because of the love of the property. The house is built in an L shape and that's purposely
because usually the size is built in a U- shape. The U-shape will enclose the garden and we wanted to open the space. The reason why is this big is because we are four. We work from home. We need an
office and I have a mom who has lost her husband during COVID. Sorry. So my plan is for her to visit us long periods of time. So we needed a five
bedroom home. It's not a luxury. It's a need for us because of what I said. Um the choice was do we build two floors or we build one.
We thought that because of the environment and respectfully because of the rest of the houses around us, one floor was the right choice to make. And because it's a double lot, there was enough space to put everything
in one floor and to still have the garden without touching all the beautiful trees around it. And that's why we have one floor with an L-shape and five bedrooms. We hope
that you are also part of our lives, that you pass by and say hi, and that you get to know my family as well. I again respect your opinions and that's because you care. So I embrace those. Thank you for your time and again we
respectfully ask for your approval and um yeah um and about the state of the house right now we have leaks. It's very old. Uh when we went to buy the house and to sell it, it was communicated the first day. It was very
honest by the agent. Look, this house needs a lot and whoever comes here will have to invest on it. There were choices for investors to maybe divide the lot in two or to build and resell. And from the beginning, I was like, I'm I want to
find my home. Like the kids will grow up. We So, yeah, the answer is this will be our forever home. Um, any questions or anything? I'm more than happy to to answer. And again, thank you for your time. Um, yeah.
>> Thank you. Hold on one second, Grace. Hold on one second, Mr. Ste. Um, any uh questions or comments from the committee? >> That was a very, very beautiful explanation of why you left the property. Uh, and I'm sorry for your mom's loss. And thank you so much for
giving us an insight into you guys as a family. We pass by your house frequently. I have two boys, a seven-year-old and a 5-year-old. So, if you hear a lot of ruckus and a lot of like bike riding and hoopla, that's us. Um, and definitely say hi. >> Okay. Thank you.
>> Any other questions or comments from the committee? >> Mayor. >> Yes. >> To the to the to you all, I'm not against what you want to do. I'm concerned
about what it it's going to look like. We're not trying to become um a big time city. We want to stay a little village. And if your property is so unique from what it looks like,
the value of ours is going to be it's going to be changed. What I generally hear from most people is we're not going to change the aesthetics of how this village looks. That's the only thing I think about. I came in here
and they didn't want me here because of the color of my skin. I don't care about that kind of stuff. I wanted to be here. I'm here going on 30 some years. I'm here sorry 25 years if not that. And what you said is so honest. I can I
can sense you. It's very honest. Just make sure it blends with us. Please don't do like some folks are trying to do. They want to bring in a different commercialism. This is home
for us. This is not to be the big times. This is the regular village that likes neighborhoods and neighbors. Not trying to change it. into a corporate something. Thank you so
much for your honesty. >> Thank you very much, >> Council Person Lightoot. Um, appreciate that. That's wonderful. Um, if did you get to see the house this uh week? >> I did not.
>> I went there today and it's about 100 ft from the new roundabout. >> That's right. >> And the new roundabout has no greenery. It has no plants inside the medium. It has nothing. Their house about 100 feet away is the only thing in that area that looks like Elortal. >> Yeah,
>> I think >> you're you're spot on here. We're >> we got to keep this uh thing going here. The Elortal greenery. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Any last questions or comments from the committee?
>> Okay, hearing seeing none. Um I did public comment, Mr. Ste. I'm going let you back up, but I just want Just want to point because people talk about transparency and how we don't have transparency but clerk Jacob and attorney Geller will tell you that public comment comes is not debate correct and that when it's closed it's
usually closed but Mr. Ste I know you have something to say so you go ahead. >> Thank you. Uh again this is not personal. I'm not questioning your motivation. We're happy to have you in Elportal. It's great to have new people here. What we don't want is people moving to Elportal because they love it
and then tearing down a 100-year-old house because they love it so much. You can put up whatever you want, but the fact is the council has the right to say no. It's not just up to the property owner. I want to be very clear about that. And I'm really flabbergasted to hear at least three members of the
council voting basically siding with the whole idea that it's okay to tear down old houses in Elportal and put up many McMansions. That's really surprising. Uh council person said that he was surprised that they didn't ask for a
bigger house. How much bigger than 4,000 ft can you get? I understand it's a 19,000 square foot lot, but the fact is the zoning allows up to 40% footprint. This house is 39 and a half. Right now, it's eight.
>> That's not correct. >> That's that's 7,000 total. 7,000 total with the driveway and everything else. So, the zoning allows 39 and a 40% is 39 and a half. So, what they could have built an 8,000 foot house for that. We
should be thankful that they didn't build something with two stories and 8,000 square feet. I mean, you talk about trees. Trees are great. Trees can be replaced. Houses can't. Thank you. >> Go ahead.
>> Say your name, address, please. >> Kathy Ramos, 60 Northwest 91st Street. We're going to be neighbors, so welcome to the neighborhood. Um, again going back to the council approving the type of design, our next door village that we use a lot of their
policy and in to influence how we act. Um, you can't get a flat roof approved right there in Miami Shores. You can't they go and they say you can't get that approved because of aesthetic. It doesn't fit the village design. We have a charet.
We can use some guidelines of our village to help influence votes. So if possible, if you could change your design to conform just a bit because I do like your house. But if we could use it to match the character of the neighborhood, I think that would be very
welcome by all the neighbors. Um, also you do have D County pine in your house. It's extinct. It's not available anymore. If you do end up tearing down your house, if you could salvage it because it's not available anywhere else, that would be wonderful. And
clarification from the council, they have beautiful silver buttonwoods, a native tree to South Florida in your front hedge. From what I understand, front hedge is not allowed. So, is that
grandfathered in? Because I don't want someone coming back in a year and saying, "You have to tear it down because against code. We even had a community event here asking if we could make it part of our code. So, there seems to be a little bit
of a discrepancy there. >> If I could real quick, mayor, >> um do we have any more public comment? One second. Uh >> y right after she goes. Uh >> one, um Alexandra Vasa, 120 Northwest 86
Street. Um I do uh not only understand your right to build your dream home uh to accommodate your needs, your family, uh especially because truthfully nobody's going to see it. But again, I am concerned about lot coverage, how
that is going to impact the rest of the community. It is not just the size of the house. And I understand why you did it one floor to try to minimize the impact environmental impact. But in this especially because what you said we are
in an ex flood sonic we need every piece of uh imperous area that we can use. So decks, you know, pools, um all of that does count. It's not just the size of
the house. Thank you. Thank you very much. All right. Um, back to the committee. Uh, council person, I mean, member of >> Yeah, just real quick. So, um, that was actually the purpose of my question about the vegetation up front was because, um, uh, if they plan to alter
that in any way, uh, the resident is correct that would have to like if you took it out to allow construction equipment in, for example, that hedge is not coming back up again. So um uh as I saw you know I look at satellite images and stuff like that but that was my first that was my first question in my
mind was is this is this vegetation in the frontage which would not typically be allowed uh is it going to remain right so um so so to the resident's point just do be aware that if you are taking out the
hedges to accommodate construction equipment uh those hedges will not be going back in in um that is that is absolutely correct. I actually uh uh that was another thought I had actually was about the um the uh level uh plane
of the roof uh in terms of no interruption or disruption of that line, right? Um and so uh I do take uh the resident's comment uh on that. Um, I've had similar comments. And as far as being flabbergasted, I mean, I'm
flabbergasted there wasn't a riot over the 8900 property, the addition, because the driveway looks like 15 feet wide. And, uh, I mean, that's going to be 35 ft tall across. The reason I got a little confused on that one is because the property across the street, which is
currently being built, um, I do think is a monstrosity, and I have massive concerns that its setbacks aren't correct. Um, and I've already been raising uh some issues on uh with that. And so the uh the previous edition that we saw earlier is going up right across
the street from that. Uh and so so uh understanding all of that again I am greatly appreciative of the carport aspect. I we do there is nobody there is
nobody coming to us with with carport uh in their design. And I think that it actually fits in extremely well with the aesthetic of the village in its openness um and uh and invitation. The windows uh
in the front uh the front facing of the house um uh is very inviting um uh and speaks to uh years ago we had a um an extensive process to figure out about what would be allowed in front, whether
fences would be allowed in front, gates, all of these things. And in that study, we learned that neighborhoods that allow gates in the front of their properties um uh are actually not as safe as other neighborhoods where everything is open. So lines of sight, visibility, neighbors
being able to see each other um uh and things to that effect. So So it the the general aesthetic seems inviting, I have to say, with the carport, with the giant windows, um and and things that effect.
Again, renditions are you know, through experience on this council, I've learned to take renditions with a grain of salt. Um, and try to understand what the overall uh goal of design is. Uh, and so
I know that, you know, you guys are uh taking uh notes on what people are saying and things to this effect and we'll see uh what might be presented uh uh at the next iteration. But, um, I did just want to, uh, uh, get that on the
record that, uh, the resident is correct. If those, if those front hedges would be disturbed, they're not going back in. And then uh just to say that um if there would be something to break up the the level line of the roof line um that would probably be uh considered an
improvement by the residents and neighbors as far as that being more in line with uh uh the the um overall feeling here in the village of Elporttown.
>> Thank you very much. Member Urban, anyone else from the committee? >> Yeah, I wanted to say one last thing. Uh, so there was a resident that said uh something about the Miami Shores houses that they have pitches. Um, and I I wanted to just clarify something that if
we are able to in the next few years actually create some kind of precedent or some kind of code that allows us to uh restrict our new builds to have pitch roofs. That's something I'm completely
for. I understand the hazards of having a flat roof in a forest as I have two roofs on my house. One is 912 pitch where everything falls off and the other one's a flat roof where I have to rake it every three months on top of the roof. So I understand that a lot of uh
insurance companies prefer flat roofs for obviously hurricane reasons but aesthetically they are not pleasant to the eye and I think a lot of the times when we call something modern and not looking like a portal it's
because of that flat roof. Um, as I see that no one's going to see your house anyways because you have so many trees in front of it. Hopefully you don't remove the hedge as little as possible when you move your excavators in there. Um, I mean, maybe consider getting more of a pitch roof if you plan on living there. Your trees are going to leave so
many leaves on your roof that your leaves are going to rot through your roof. They'll create acid and they'll go right through it. It's it's it's not a fun experience to stand on your roof and rake. I can tell you from the last 13 years of raking my roof. Um, but other than that, you know, no one's really
going to see the property, so you you can do the hard work yourself. Thanks. >> Thank you very much. Anybody else from the committee? >> Okay. Hearing seeing none, um, before I ask for a motion, uh, just wanted to ask answer one other question. Um, Mr.
Ramos, there you are. Uh, how you doing, Mr. Ramos? Um, so the the way the whole code thing worked, uh, when I came in as mayor for just so many decades, um, we just didn't have true code enforcement and things were kind of like all over
the place. So the compromise that, you know, we just kind of came up with was everything that is that you have because when I came in it was COVID, a lot was going on, things like that financially and stuff like that. Um, and so we have
rules that are in place. For decades, those rules were not followed, sometimes followed, halfway followed, sometimes strictly followed. But the rules were on the books. So this was the compromise I came up with. I said, look, I said when I came out, I said everything that
everybody has, they can have because I'm not going to make everybody tear up concrete that's not supposed to be in this well. I'm not going to have everybody do it's just too expensive. not going to put that type of burden on the residents. So I said if you have it, you can have it. The moment you go to
change it, you have to fall into code. So to answer your question with them, um they have it, they can have it, but I if they were to go let's say right now at this moment now hopefully we can change these things. But if right now, let's
say tomorrow, she was like, you know what, I want a new style of hedge. She's changing it. She can't do that. All right. The perfect example that um I like to give that everybody can understand is the roofing example. There's still some houses in Elbertal
that have shingle roofs. That's not allowed in our code, but we don't bother you. But the moment that you go to redo your roof, you have to fall into code. So that's why sometimes that's why sometimes um
you'll have residents call me and they'll be confused. to be like, "Man, mayor, like, you know, I got this, but there's a house down the street around the corner that also has it, but if they had it before I came into office, and they haven't changed it, that's why
we're not bothering them." All right, that's kind of how it goes. But we need to clean everything up. Doing the best we can. Uh, any last questions or comments from the uh committee or I'm going to ask for a motion from the audience? >> Yeah. >> How you doing? How you doing?
>> Hi, Edna Edelman, 301 Northeast 88th Street. I mean, the one thing that I that I've been listening to is is really what seems to be and I'm sorry I mean interrupting your approval session, but we seem to have no aesthetic
um codes. I mean, you brought up Miami Shores does not allow certain type of roof, but here it seems like anything goes. I mean, I live across the street from one of the the big concrete uh buildings and monstrosities going up
behind me um as well. Um so it it doesn't seem like anything goes even though we're torturing you right now. Um and and it comes back to the same thing that we hear in every meeting. When do we change the charter? Um when do we
change the code? What kind of meetings um do we have? When do we see the results of of the survey that was done regarding the charter? Um I I'd like to actually come away from one of these meetings with a concrete target and
plans for our residents um boards um committees that involve us um and and actually a plan to make changes to the code and the charter. Thank you. >> Thank you very much. Um, in the next meeting, the first agenda item is Senate
Bill 180. And on that, I'll explain a lot of that. Okay. No, no. In the next meeting next. All right. Um, any last questions, comments from the committee or do I have a motion? >> A motion to approve.
>> Motion by uh, member Winters. Do I have a second? >> Second. >> Second by Vice Chair Martin. Madam clerk might have roll >> ro call. Member life foot board. >> I'm supposed to go first anyway. >> Yeah, either way it was winters. It's just housing the agenda right now.
Member Winters. >> Yes. >> Member Lifewood Ward. >> Majority rules. >> I couldn't hear you. >> Majority rules. >> Okay. You still have to vote. >> Remember like you have to vote. >> That's it.
said majority rules because I know what I want to say but I don't want to make it up then finish everybody and then I'll tell you what I am. >> No, say what you say. >> No, this is how the votes work you all. The votes work by the chair, the vice
chair or mayor, vice mayor depending on what type of meeting you're in. Right now we're in the committee meeting so it's chairs chair >> chair. But she doesn't vote for the >> chair, vice chair,
then you have the members and it goes from seniority and then alphabetical order. So member Winters is the newest member. So he votes first. Then we go to seniority. Out of seniority,
you have Urban, you have Ward and Martin that came on at the same time, but Martin is the vice chair. So Ward's the next vote. Then there's Urban. Urban's more senior. Urban's been on longer than Martin and Ward. Okay. Then it's Urban.
Then it's the vice chair Martin. Then it's the chair myself. And that's how it goes. Okay. It goes position. Then it goes to the senior the seniority as far as how long you've been on. And then alphabetical order. So we've had Winter's vote. Next vote is light foot.
I'm going to vote yes because next time I'm going to tell you if if it's like that mayor. They should have said something cuz I never know it in that that that angle. I never knew it. I'm not blaming you. I'm not doing anything. I just didn't know. It sounded like we are just trying to get through. I want
to make this person this person. It could have been me. They ain't doing nothing wrong. It could have been me. But is it clear to everyone? That's all. >> Thank you. >> Member Urban? >> Yes. >> Vice Chair Martin?
>> Yes. >> Chair Nekerson? >> No. >> Four to one. Motion passes. >> Do I have uh any last one person for good and welfare of any type or can we move to adjournment?
>> Motion to adjurnn. >> Do I have a motion to adjurnn? Yeah. Winter's motion to adjurnn. >> I'll second. >> Okay. Motion by council member Winter, second by member Irvon. All in favor say I. I. >> All post say nay.
>> Hearing none. The um October 28th planning and zoning committee meeting is adjourned at 8 o'clock p.m. We'll take a minute and then we'll go into the uh council meeting because Kirk Jacobe has to speak to a couple of Part: 2
All right. Okay. The regular council meeting for Tuesday, October 28th is called to order at 8:11 p.m. We've already had a moment of silent meditation followed by a pledge of allegiance. Madame clerk, can I please have roll call, please? [Music]
Roll call. Mayor Nickerson, >> yes. >> Vice Mayor Martin, >> present. >> Council person Urban, >> present. >> Council person Lifewood Ward, >> here. >> Council person Winters, >> present. >> Also present. for the record, Janice Jacobe, village clerk is the village
manager Joseph Geller. >> Thank you very much. Uh, madame clerk for approval of the agenda. There's one item that's not ready yet, and that's F4. Um, and so that needs to be removed for right now. We're still doing some uh
drainage situations on that. Um, if there's nothing else, do I have a motion to approve the agenda? >> A motion to approve it without F4. >> All right. Thank you very much. Do a second. Second. >> Second. All in favor say I. >> I. >> Post say nay. Hearing none. Next is the good and welfare. Um, anything on this
particular agenda anybody wants to come up and talk about, you can, but you can also come up and talk after each agenda item you guys. Okay. >> Um, I have a piece of good welfare for this agenda. >> Okay. >> Uh, it's regarding the uh item that was uh removed off the consent agenda um F4.
So uh there is a resident who is affected by the first iteration of repaving uh regarding a uh standing water on their property when it rains that is occurring now that did not occur before.
Similarly uh the roundabout on the west side has generated uh multiple concerns on my part. Uh, I've had resident send me videos showing
that the leveling of the roundabout uh partially was done with a bucket as opposed to a roller. Uh, we had complaints of the construction crew themselves harassing uh residents sexually. Uh and then and then with the
F4 item that was removed, understanding that it was just a small patch of pavement that was uh replaced uh after running a a gas line for our generator, which obviously uh is a necessity. Um I
have a concern uh that uh our standards in the village for uh for contractors who are doing work for us here in the village are not where they need to be. So So I'm a nerd with um microclimates.
What I mean by that is if I go to a college dorm mini fridge and open it, I can find the cold spot. All right. So, that does go back to my
work uh in restaurants, which I reference frequently, but there is a difference in a walk-in cooler. Uh there is cold spots just as on a grill you have hot spots. So when I was 19, I was a broiler cook at a 150
seat steakhouse. I had a 7 foot broiler with a 600 degree hot spot. The cold spot was like 300 degrees. I could stack steaks on top of each other is the one on bottom needed to be well done and the one on top needed to be medium rare. get the medium rare done, stack it on top of
a well done, and use the medium rare steak as a weight to, you know, increase the or decrease the cooking time of a well done so they can all get to the table on time. Right? So, the issue on this F4 item has to do with a tiny
difference in leveling of the work that was done. This is the difference between somebody paying a great deal of attention to the work they're doing versus somebody who's doing a cut and paste job like they have done everywhere else. And so I would like to put the
council on notice that we need to be exceptionally diligent in vetting contractors who come to do work for us in the village because even with something as simple as just a simple gas line across the street and a small patch of pavement reput. We have a resident
who's now experiencing flooding who were not experiencing flooding before. I have much larger concerns about the roundabout project, but regarding this uh small item, I just very much want to put on the record and put on notice to
the council that um that extreme diligence needs to be uh used when uh considering anybody who's going to be doing work for us in the village. >> Thank you very much. Anyone else uh good welfare? >> Mayor.
>> Yeah. May I ask um my colleague here a question? >> Absolutely. >> So, are you going to do something about it? You just told us that something needs to be done. Are you going to be the one to do it?
>> Well, yes, at any opportunity I have. Uh and so the short answer is yes. >> Okay. and I am but one vote. But the short answer to that is yes. >> Mayor, the reason why I asked the
question is because we are here to to assure things as opposed to just ignore them. And what my colleague has said uh indicates that he's he's concerned and I just want to make sure that just because he's speaking doesn't mean that that's
all you have to do. When there's a problem, everybody, you don't have to wait for the council, but when you see that the neighbor or whoever is not co is not cooperating, yes, bring it to us. But I like my colleague here because
he's not shy about saying things that need to be done properly. Thank you, mayor. >> Thank you very much. Anyone else good in welfare? >> I'd like to add on to it. Uh, I agree with Council Person Herbomb on this issue. Um, a lot of the contractors
we've seen have not done an adequate job and we've had some issues. And after we were warned by the residents that the possible roundabout was not going to look very nice because we did not have visuals that they all proved us correct.
This basically medians filled with concrete, a center section filled with bricks. There there's nothing there that says Elortell. Everything screams downtown Miami Dade. And I think we need to figure out a way to correct this wrong.
And uh I was talking with some of the residents at that spot because that spot, if everyone doesn't know, is actually on the uh direct line between Miami Shores and Elportal. There are residents from Miami Shores on the roundabout as there are residents from
Elportal. So, I'd like it probably to be put on an agenda item coming up next month so we can figure out a way to fix this uh wrong and make it better for everyone. >> Thank you very much. Anyone else good in welfare?
Thank you, Mayor. >> Hi, my name is George Alvarez. I live at 165 Northwest 88th Street. Um, I think we're going to talk about some of the issues that were just brought up by our council people uh in uh in order when
they come up uh during the uh during the session um during tonight's session. Uh so uh a bunch of months ago um I spoke with concerns about uh a development in our
neighborhood. Uh concerns about some of the information that was missing on their site plans. uh some aesthetic concerns and some concerns about potential flood mitigation considering their particular
uh style of build at that time. Another big concern that I had and and some of my my neighbors uh were were very vehement about it uh was the trees. Speak to any resident in El Patel.
Usually they'll have one or two pet issues, but that third or fourth issue will be our tree canopy. I appreciate uh a couple of the council people who uh along with the mayor have advocated for uh at some point allowing the rest of Elprell to uh grow gracefully into
Sherwood Forest type uh status. I that that would be lovely as except for those of you who like to grow grow grass on your lawns. Um, but at this build where we spent a lot
of time talking about the trees that were going to remain on this build, most of them non-native species, including palm trees and mango trees, but a couple native species. Well, the the two native species were
devastated over the weekend by 50%. All of the non-native trees, um, I believe all but one were supposed to remain. That was what was told to us by the developers. Well, they're all gone.
Gone. Well, they're not gone because we're having bulk pickups, so you can still see their dead bodies laying across. So, what are we doing here? If we're serious about the things that we're serious about, then we have to be
serious about it. There must be enforcement or there must be compromise. I'm not saying that I'm right. I'm not saying that I heard anything here tonight so far that was 100% right or 100% wrong.
But what I am feeling is this system of lack of followth through. It wouldn't be a transparency issue if it was just follow through, right? Then we would see it. Do we not have the resources to do it?
Perhaps. Do we perhaps need more revenue with which to do it? Perhaps. Where are we going to get that revenue from? Well, these are very difficult questions. But a lot of us come here and fully expect
our committees, our council, our staff to pretty much let things go the way they've always gone. And sometimes it's fine. Since I was born here a long time ago
and since I moved back not so long ago, Eltretell was not big time. Now we're big time or at least we are big timing. You understand the phrase big timing?
So we're not going to be able to do everything we want. We're not going to be able to make everybody happy and we're certainly not going to be able to make someone's day with huge amounts of money that we don't have.
So although I am very disappointed that some of the trees that were supposed to be there, they were on a rendering. And there was a rendering on an easel. And I actually went up to the easel and I said, "Hey, just because these trees are
in the pretty picture doesn't mean those trees are going to be there when the house is built." Well, they're gone. I can deal with it. It's a shame. I do wish there was more more trees, especially in the part of town. Um, I
think uh one of the council people spoke to the issue of 91st Street not looking like Elertell. Well, that's because half of it is Miami Shores. The half that is Alpertell looks very much like Elertell. Thank the Lord. And
one of the Miami Shores houses, which is, I believe, bigger than a quarter acre and right across from the house that was most uh that was just spoken about in the in the last meeting. It has historical status and it's got
grove avocados. So, they don't have to do anything. In fact, they're not supposed to do anything. But that's in Miami Shores. Different vibe, right? So, I'd love to, you know, I I today I
witnessed a mockingb bird in one tree staring at another tree where I believe some blue jays were. I'm not that good at this. and it was imitating the other birds. I wouldn't see that in North Miami. I
wouldn't see that at Naventure. I wouldn't see that in Homestead or Florida City. I wouldn't see that in Halia. Sad to say, I probably wouldn't see it in Coral Gables or Coconut Grove anymore, but maybe if I'm lucky. But I would see it in Sherwood. I'd probably see it now. Well, it's night, so no, I
wouldn't see it now. I'm going to let it go because there's bigger things that we are trying to do. So, I'm urging everybody to keep in their minds, front of mind, back of mind, that there
are priorities that the average current resident of El Patel has and they should be the priorities that our councils and committees keep front of mind.
Thank you. Thank you very much. >> Hi y'all. I'm Denise, 173 Northwest 88th Street. Been there since I was 12 years old, right? Um, so number one, the roundabout that we didn't really want, but they voted anyway. Okay. They now
they want to make it pretty and plans to make it pretty. They had chances before to get the rendering. Nobody got the rendering. Nobody cared. What they did care about was that we have a roundabout. So now we got a roundabout. Well, we care whether it's pretty or not. We got a roundabout. That was the
goal to get the roundabout. So the roundabout is there. Even though it cost us a whole lot of money and we got a deficit, but we got a roundabout because what's important is a roundabout. So well, who cares whether he's got flowers or trees or he's pretty or he looks like Miami Shores Aventure. I don't care what
it it's. It's a roundabout. We didn't want it, but we got it because they voted anyway because they didn't care what we had to say. They voted for it anyway. So now we got a roundabout. Leave it alone. Don't spend no more money on it. Don't give it nothing. Don't do nothing else with it. It's there now. We couldn't do nothing about
it. Even though we filled the place, residents fill the place. We couldn't do nothing about it. But now you want to do more to it. Yeah. No. Uh-uh. We not spending no more money. We don't want to spend no more money on it. If we got a deficit, let's fix the deficit and then
worry about that. That's number one. That's number one. Number two, trees in the rendering. You saw rendering trees. They said, "Oh, they're going to keep the trees." The people told him, they talked about trees and how we supposed to save the trees and and then like he said, I went outside and the trees was
gone. Oh, I'm sorry. They wasn't gone. They was they they what you said, baby. They dead bodies was lying right in front. They still there cuz they didn't pick up the dead bodies is lying in front. The mango tree. Oh my goodness. This mango tree. He was a fabulous mango tree. He used to put out mangoes all the
time. Gone. He's gone now. Hopefully they will plant more trees because if they cut him down, that's not what they supposed to do. They supposed to then put some plants and more trees. So we going to pray. But if they said we was worried about flooding, my neighbors, they was worried about flooding. Right.
Mr. Blair was worried about flooding in your yard because they going now they told us that they going to they care about us and they're going to make concerns and what have you. But they also told us they was going to have trees. So if they lying about the trees, what else they going to lie about? Mr.
Blair, I hope you don't got no water in your backyard after they finish construction. Hopefully, you know, they will be telling some truth about something. We gonna hope and then but as my council again not listening to us just keeps passing these new these new
modern houses and keeps doing things that the residents are screaming please help us be with us. Be one with us. But no, they're not one with us are are they? Because they pass things like
roundabouts. But that's all I got. >> Thank you very much. [Applause] Hi, my name is Ramona and I live on 88th Street as well. I just want to uh reaffirm the same thing that they, you know, their concerns.
>> Sorry, you have to say your >> um Yeah. 136 Northwest 88th Street. Um the roundabout for me it's right now is one of the biggest problems. Um, I I don't understand how could we spend so
much money on this ugly um roundabout that they put it up there. And I'm with you. I don't want more money being spent on this project. For what I heard, they spent $500,000 and now they were up to like 700 something thousand. I mean,
it's insane. It's a mini roundabout. It's not even a complete like, you know, it's a mini roundabout and ugly and we had trees being destroyed to put that thing in there. And again, as a resident, I nobody asked me if I
want it or nobody. And now I have a concern that on my street, I might have now the school bus running down my street because they cannot make it on that area there.
So now 88th Street which is a tiny street I going to have the buses speeding on my street. So what is going to be done about that? I don't see nothing's going to be done about that. I don't know what is the
solution for the buses now. Thank you. >> Thank you. [Applause] Alexandra Vasa, 120 Northwest 86th Street. Um, I just wanted to confirm the
date today. Um, is 20 the 28th of the month. We were promised for uh followup for the workshop of for the of the budget. That was the condition to approve uh the the budget despite of all
the you know that we were here until past midnight. Despite of all the concerns that everybody expressed, despite of the fact that we don't no longer have the money that was promised by the Kabista project, uh all of a sudden we have less money. Uh but here
we are asking for more money for a project that nobody wants. Uh taking down trees, uh approving projects for left and right despite of anything that we may say or not. and continue listening to the fact that you know next
time maybe the next election if we you get lucky 15 years you get to express your opinion. So yeah that that's oh by the way we don't have a signing any signing or regulations because we're still waiting for proerbia and um you know the corina
group you know we they're here for half an hour and then they're gone. Thank you. >> Thank you. Daniel Roas, 60 Northeast 86 Street. Um, so I have a couple things to to say. Uh, one,
uh, and I think I think the mayor follow up with me with regard to the advisory committees. Uh it's a big concern to me the whole tree situation and how developers people are coming up making their houses chopping all the trees down and they're just saying oh we'll just
plant new trees. Frankly we are a bird we're a bird sanctuary we're a tree city. It takes a tree to be rooted more than 25 years for it to be actually carbon negative and to actually be a home to all the species. So you can't
just replace the trees. So I I do believe it it uh is very important for a village to make sure that there is not just a fee to chop down protected trees, which is what these really small fines are to these people, but an actual like
hefty fine to somebody that decides to pretty much destroy the home and and destroy this beautiful gift that our village has. Um that's uh so that's one. And then something completely separate which I believe we can bring up
something that's actually very seems to me more important to me recently is I I've increasingly like get this bunch of news about uh about immigrations customs
enforcement and especially last weekend they were supposed to be in Miami and my big concern is with this federal force here. If if it were ever to come to our city or to our village, my concern is if
they act in an illegal way, will our police force protect us or will they protect ICE? So, I think that's a very important question for us to answer. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> I'm sorry. I'm back. I don't mean to bother nobody. Uh 173 Northwest 88
Street. That's Denise. Um since I was 12 years old, right? Okay. So, my next door neighbor this weekend, um, he was pulling out all his hedges, every hedge he had from 25 feet from the road. Um, I didn't understand this, so I was like,
"What you doing?" and he said, "Well, the code enforcer came and he put a a a you know, I forget what it's called, but you know, he gave him a citation and said that he's not supposed to have any hedges 25 feet from the from the
street." What? This is Elportal. There are hedges all over the dag on place. I said, "Well, why?" He said, "Well, the code enforcer says somebody complained. I am the neighbor facing him and his foot tall his his hellified tall bushes.
I'm that neighbor. I complain. Not Nan complain. Not in in non-English not Nan complaint did I complain. So I don't know who would have complained for them to give him this citation. That's number one. So I was like well why didn't you say something? We could have gone
council come over here talk and he said no they told me if I had I would have to apply for a variance. Now, I looked all over down 88th Street, 90 Street, 80. There are bushes everywhere. When he came here, he said he came here and he
was like, "Hey," and I'm just speaking for him. This is hearsay. I'm just making a point. Mr. Mayor, you said that if you weren't going to change it, we leave you alone. The man got a citation. They told him they would have charged him $1,000 a day. I know we need
revenue, but that's really crazy. Anyway, so then he said, so I said, but that doesn't make any sense. But again, this is what happened. So he had to pull he pulled all his hedges up to 25 ft all the way up here. I mean, it cost him
money to do that. That didn't make any sense. When he came here, they said that the code enforcer that put it on the books was no longer here. But because he put it on the books, it couldn't be taken off the books. What? Okay. I'm in love with my city, but y'all gonna have to explain that one
to me because that one didn't make any sense. Now, I did ask him, Mr. Mayor. I said, "Did you call the mayor? Did you talk to him about it?" He was like, "No, no." As if, you know, coming here gave him a headache or whatever. And I told him maybe he should have spoken to you before he went to plugging out all these
bushes out cuz now I get to see his everything. And I was happy not seeing his everything. So, you know, if you could discuss that, Mr. May, because I don't understand that. Amen. Amen. Anyone else good in welfare? >> Alexandra Basa 120 Northwest 86 Street.
Um I just wanted to ask since uh not has been like very publicized uh I understand that our CD manager is u moving on or at least that's what it seems based on the uh you know look that
you're looking for somebody else. So I just wanted to express our opinion you know we would like to get some our opinion as residents in the process the process of the new hiring. That's all. Thank you.
>> Anyone else doing well? >> Hi, George Alvarez, 165 Northwest 88th Street. Um, just want to highlight a few points with context that some of the other residents made. um in our most recent budget which was approved and as
Ms. Baza said uh uh the mayor and council uh seemed to be open to uh and perhaps even inclined to going back looking at the budget and perhaps uh nipping and tucking some of the higher budget items.
Uh we might have to do that. Um, so I hope that you guys will consider that. You've got another 30 some odd days to do so. In that budget, however, um, there were projected new revenues from both traffic
tickets and code enforcements that were much much higher than anything that I'd ever seen before. So projected revenue for citations on drivers and property owners
means that that revenue is going to come from us but not in the form of adorum taxes in the form of citations for hedges and things like that. So, I'm hoping that that's something that we can um if not um
look at the policies of enforcement a little bit differently so as to not overburden current residents. Obviously, sometimes it needs to be done, right? Like, you know, so it's it's not it's not a black or white. It's not a binary situation.
Uh I'm sure everybody here has uh any number of complaints about some neighbor that they saw somewhere versus you know what they feel like they ought to get away with. It's very difficult what you guys do and it's very very difficult what uh city management has to do in
terms of in terms of enforcing this. But there does need to be, I believe, an emphasis on current residents, common goals, common interests, and common sense.
So, I second what was stated by Miss Bosa. Not that I have any reason or power to second anything in this meeting. I'm learning, mayor. Secondly, I spoke to the um crew that was cutting
down trees in the in the uh the new development that I mentioned uh a few minutes ago. Uh that that same crew is cutting down trees elsewhere. Just to really put a finer point on this, the uh one of the crewmen told me
that the developers of these two properties on my street asked him if he would just go ahead and cut down that oak tree. He said no. He cut down all the others that were non-native species,
palm trees, the mango tree. As sad as I was to see it going, it's, you know, like they're a dime a dozen. So, you know, Durm is never going to be like, "Oh, hold on to that mango tree." Right? But it occurred to me that we were placing
our trust kind of like our enforcement of making El Prattel more beautiful on the honesty of the dude who got hired to cut down trees by the developer who
was far more honest than that developer was to this council or to the PNZ committee or to any of us. So, the oak tree still stands. Amen for small blessings. I'll take it.
And might I add, this oak tree was not one of those trees that's leaning over into a house or into somebody's yard. It's a healthy tree. So that was never in debate because the county of Miami Dade
has seemingly seated all of its authority about trees to any like arborist who's hired by any developer who's got like good letter head and the letterhead says, "Yeah, this tree is only about a foot around and it's really
really sick by 52% of illness. Miami Dade can't do it. I think we can and it shouldn't be a huge expenditure and whatever expenditure it is, I think
it should be weighed against how many people want to protect our tree tree canopy. So, I'm just bringing up those stories for a little context. Thank you very much for your time. Thank you, Mr. Thank you. Greg Steer, 120 Northwest 86 Street. So
many issues, so little time. Uh the roundabout, the Horus man roundabout, which apparently nobody wanted, nobody needed, least of all Horus man because we went to talk to them and they didn't know anything about it. And yet mysteriously the cost keeps spiraling.
We go from 500 to 600 to $700,000 for a round roundabout that the most unloved roundabout ever. Who's behind this $167,000 change order? That's what I would like to know. Uh speaking of the budget,
which has been quietly swept under the rug, there is a revenue there's going to be a revenue shortfall. And I'm not sure you're aware of it, but the Bington brothers somehow managed to get an $18 million reduction in their property tax
assessment, claiming the Kavista was an affordable housing project all along. What that means is their property tax bill goes from 1.8 million to 1.1 million and our share of that revenue
goes from 600,000 to 400,000. So we lose $200,000 a year, they gain $700,000 a year from our good friends and partners, the Bington Brothers with friends like that who needs enemies.
Bring on Adam Newman. By the way, there's not one mention of affordability in their website. I challenge you to find it. Thank you. >> Thank you. Anyone
else good in welfare hearing? Seeing none. Um, >> Alexandra Basa, 120 Northwest 86 Street. Um, I just wanted to ask again because I don't think that answer was That question was answered during the last time. Um, and it's about the Plervia
studies. When are those going going to be read? Thank you. >> Anyone else good in welfare? >> All right. So, um, the first thing is ICE. Uh, we're holding out on that currently. if ICE comes in, our police,
we haven't signed on to assist ICE. Um, as of yet the the state is uh the state governing bodies, you know, I don't like to make too many enemies, but
the state governing body um has come out to say and has forced other municipalities, if individuals don't sign on, then they start to withhold their state funding um and withdraw their funding.
There are still some other municipalities in Miami uh day county that haven't signed on like North Miami um and there are a few others. I know South Miami is also fighting it. Um I would say the difference is is that in
those municipalities they have hundreds of millions of dollars in their budget. So if the state says that they're going to withdraw their money, it's not going to hurt them for a while. Um, our budget's really small and we really
depend on our state funding. But that being said, we're holding out just like the others, just like the big boys, so we haven't signed on to that yet. >> Can I add just a little something? Uh, but if you are interested in the topic, I would urge you to look at 287G
uh and to probably uh attend some meetings with some organizations that are doing some really good work surrounding the topic because the issue is real. the threat is real. Um the people that are being targeted are not necessarily offenders or even adults. I
was just at a meeting with an organization that I highlighted the impact of the youth uh those children that are either left unaccompanied because of a parent being uh placed in ICE custody. The issue is very real and very present here. It looks different
for us than it does, let's say, for Chicago because of 287G and the fact that uh state of Florida and Miami date county have signed on to uh essentially empower local um local police forces to
enforce some of the immigration laws. So it looks a lot different, but there is definitely a concerted action to target a population that I definitely empathize with and care about. So, if you share that same viewpoint, my uh suggestion
for you would be to get involved with some of those organizations and also make it abundantly clear to all of your elected officials at the local level, the county level, and the state level that you do not support uh 287G and you do not support uh what it is that um
could result from it. So, if you care about that topic, that is what I would target. I would talk to the county. I would continue to talk to uh local governments because even if they do sign on, the level within which they choose to enforce can look very different. You
can talk about a task force or you can talk about signing on to just uh essentially house folks who have been detained. Um so all of those things are things that you should stay largely engaged with and
continue to advocate for. Um, and I hear what you're saying, which is that in the village of Elportal, at least you are conferring the thought to me that you would not be in support of us signing on to do any sort of active enforcement of
287g. >> Thank you very much, uh, Madame Vice Mayor. To that point, um, I showed a couple of individuals this when it happened, but, uh, I believe it was in Fort Meyers, the council of Fort Meyers. um came out
and publicly said they were beyond a shadow of a doubt not going to sign on to that. Um the attorney general, the state attorney general and Governor DeSantis sent them a letter a week later and said, "Not only will all your funding be removed, but we're going to remove all the elected officials from
that council." And they came back the next month and reversed everything. They signed on, they voted for it and everything. That was in Fort Myers. um that happened uh few months ago, maybe like five months ago or something like that. So, like uh the vice mayor just said, you know, this
it is real. Um but like I said, you know, Elbert, we're still holding out. Myself, the manager, we've gotten letters saying if we don't sign on um that we could be removed from office and that um and that uh all our funding
would be removed, but we still uh are holding out and still haven't signed on. We're just kind of like floating underneath the radar to the best of our ability. Okay, that's ICE. Uh the thing about Serbia and the code amendments that Miss Baza
brought up in the planning and zoning meeting and earlier in this meeting. I was going to say it in the planning and zoning meeting, but that was planning and zoning committee meeting. It wasn't the council meeting, but if you look at the next agenda item after we do the uh consent, the first one is Senate Bill
180. That's where we'll be discussing that. As far as the um the budget, like the budget amendment or or going over the budget or talking about the budget again, that's on there. You guys see that's H4. So that's on
tonight. Also, um as far as the the voice being heard as far as the selection of the new village manager, uh the the pro procedures and the protocol, that's H5. We'll be discussing things
as far as the code enforcement and the remove removed hedges um in the back. I don't know anything about that. So, I don't know the details. So, I don't really have an answer like I don't know if like I don't know how long those hedges had been there. I don't know if those hedges were there before.
>> Okay. I don't I I I don't know. I don't know. So, I mean we can look into it but I just don't know anything about it. But I wish Yeah, you guys I'm very accessible. Anybody will tell you. All right. So, if you have any questions or anything, you guys can call or text me, all right? At any time, day or night.
Okay? It doesn't matter what time. All right? So, do that if anything ever happens. And as far as uh madam manager, you might want to tackle this. Horus man, did the Horseman School, did they know about the roundabout? >> The Horus man principal and the vice
principles, they they've known about it since we've been meeting with them over the years. So, yes, they do know. >> So, I don't I don't know what's falling apart as far as communication with that. Um, that's that's it for that you guys. Uh, for the council, do I have a motion to approve the consent agenda?
>> So, moved. >> Do I have a second? >> Second. >> Madam Cler, when you get the opportunity, can have a roll call on the consent. And for the record, mayor, the consent agenda today is F F1, F2, and F3
because F4 was removed. >> Absolutely. Thank you. >> Roll call. Council person Winters, >> yes. >> Council person Lifewood Ward, >> yes. >> Council person Irv, >> yes. >> Vice Mayor Martin, >> yes. >> Mayor Nickerson,
>> yes. Motion passes 5 to none. >> Thank you very much. Um, next is the resolution. This is G1. Um, attorney Geller, if you want to read the resolution into the >> Yes, sir. Item G1. Um, resolution resolution of the village
council, the villageville Patel, Florida of Miami Date County, Florida, approving a proposal for asphalt repair services uh of the tot I'm sorry, that's what's supposed to be Little River.
It's Yeah, it's not what it's it's it's misprinted. >> Library parking. Oh, I see it. >> Sorry, there is a typo um on on the agenda. This is resolution >> the change order. I need to change
order. >> Okay. This is the proper G1 and it is correction of the agenda. A resolution of the village council of the village of Alpert, Florida, Miami date county, Florida, approving change order number one in connection with professional
engineering services for the Horus man middle school safety roundabout CAS project number 21-2211 for the village of Alpert Miami Day County providing for incorporation of recitals providing for an effective date
Thank you very much. Um, counsel from the council. >> Point of order. I'm not understanding what you just read. Is it on this? >> Okay. Sorry. >> I corrected it. If you look uh, council person w uh, council ward um, council
person lightoot ward. Sorry, >> Dr. Lightoot. >> Still remember it the old way. Doctor, well, council person, doctor, >> both Dr. Council person, >> you know what? Keep going. I know you. >> I know you. Um
what was printed as item F4 >> which was withdrawn. there was a drainage issue with the parking lot paving and just inadvertently uh although the to my recollection what
was published said different but where it's we're on item G1 a resolution and it says G1 roundabout Horus man middle change order but what's written underneath it repeats what was
written for F4 about the tot parking repair so if you look to the Right. It says Horus man middle roundabout, but the text underneath it um is is a typo. It just repeats what's above it. I just
read the correct uh title of the resolution which is for change order number one and I just read it into the record. >> Thank you very much. Question of comment council. >> Should be in your backup. >> Still confused.
Is that F4 you're talking about? >> F4 is the one that was withdrawn. >> Okay. >> But G1, although the title is correct, it says it's about the Harest Man Middle. >> What's written underneath repeats what
was written for F4. That's a mistake. It's supposed to be what I just read. The title, Horus Man, Middle Roundabout, is correct. The text underneath it >> is not >> repeats what's written for F4. It's the
word for word the same. That's just a typo. It's typographical error. It is change order number one for the Horus man middle roundabout. You have the correct resolution in your packet. And I read the title is correct. I read
the the the title of the resolution into the record. Any other questions or comment council? >> I have a few questions. Um, so I guess this roundabout is now going up in price
because we have a twostar company that thinks it's worth costs more than the original bid they won. Is this correct? >> I don't know that that that is the reasoning. um from what we have been
working with the the contractor to find is that asphalt and milling um there's a a a change um required and more milling and asphalt is required. So um Mr. Moan Pompy who's our um engineer who is the
pro project manager as well as Mr. Orlando Rubio are both here. Mr. Rubio um conducted the design work um since 2019 and Mr. Bambi has come in as the engineer uh and inspector. So they will be happy to describe um what brought us
here today for this change order. >> So the thing I wanted to get to with the question was um what was the competing bid that this company beat and now we're seeing a raise in price compared to the
previous uh bid? I can answer that. I I can go through the timeline and give you a brief description. Uh Moan Campe, the public works uh director and Orlando Rubio is s
standing next to me. He's the engineer of record. >> Orlando Rubio from Craig A. Smith and Associates. >> All right, hold on one second. >> Hold on. Hold on one second. Oh, okay. Hold on one second. All right. Um, first of all, both of you guys, uh, say your
address also for the record. So, Moani and what's your address? >> My address? >> Yes. >> Uh, well, I I'm I'm staying in Coral Gables. >> Say your address for the >> Yeah, you can have my office. Yeah. 34
>> 345 Cap Cap Engineering. >> Your business address, not >> your home. >> Oh, okay. 345 Almriia Avenue. >> And Coral Gables 3. Yeah. >> Okay. And Mr. Rubio, say your full name
and address. >> 1425 East Newport Center Drive, Deerfield Beach, Florida. >> Okay. Uh, Council Person Winters, um, keep going if you weren't you weren't. >> I'll ask my questions after they speak. Thank you.
>> Okay. You guys can go ahead and start responding. >> Okay. Um, I'll give you a description on how this change order uh came about. Uh, Roadway Construction was awarded this uh contract for the roundabout for 552,27248.
[Music] And uh >> can you repeat that number again? >> Uh $552,27248. [Music] And so uh
basically this is a F dot uh F dot matching grant project. So about half of this about 300,000 will be matched by F DOT. And the second low bidder for for this
project was her homes who bid 689,696 uh.77. So the second low bidder was $137,000424. >> What was the name of the bidder? Uh the second low bidder was uh higher by over
$137,000. >> What was their name? >> Her her homes hurr r. >> It's a womanowned uh business. So brother and sister. So
>> and they bid how much you said again? $689,696.77. >> This is the roundabout. >> Yes. >> Tell me that figure again. >> Uh you want the figure again? Uh 689,696 uh.77.
>> That's a lot of money. So uh so the uh uh roadway construction was awarded the project since their bid was the low bid which was $137,000
less. So uh the after the award was made to roadway construction uh uh the notice to proceed was given on August 11th for the contractor to start construction and uh CAP engineering were
asked to do the construction administration inspection because this is an FDOT project. So they need a different uh consultant. Uh so when they started roadway needed a right-of-way permit from Miami shores because they
already got permission from the county. Most of this uh uh roundover project is within the Miami date county's north northwest 2nd Avenue. They they owned that and they dictated the design. Uh uh
you know if you uh they dictated the complete design and what should be done. So >> who dictated it? What's that? >> Who who Miami date county uh Department of Transportation and Public Works? They are the ones who issued the permit. FDOT
provided the grant and they they looked at the design to make sure it met all the requirements. But the actual uh uh uh the the design approval was made by uh and and by Miami date county
department of transportation and public works. Yeah. And FDOT and a primary but FDOT did not dictate uh uh the the changes and uh you know the the design which was
accepted before they said okay now you can go ahead and start construction. Uh so uh yeah >> excuse me correction. The project was reviewed both by FDOT and Miami date county because FDOT was administering
the grant. They reviewed it um according to their criteria as well. Um so we had competing criteria between FDOT and the county. The county owns Northwest Second Avenue. Um so that was a a dual review
process and there was a lot of back and forth but we had two approvals in in that in that process. So it was dictated by Miami Day County Department of Transportation Public Works and FDOT. >> Yes sir. >> Yes. >> They had complete control of the way it was supposed to look the every design
portion. >> Yes. >> Well, and they gave no options for anything else. >> We we had a lot of u back and forth between both agencies during during the review process. Um in fact in the
beginning our first version of that of the roundabout had a landcape island in the middle and wasn't so much of a issue with DOT but uh Date County for large vehicle access through through
the rideway and and and to show um um large vehicle turning through through the u the um the roundabout. Uh they said we they couldn't support that because the vehicles were going to hit hit the the middle of the landscape
area. So it got to a point where they they even asked the village to produce a letter to committing to the county, but they were never going to in install a any obstruction or any landscape in the
middle of that of that roundabout. But just to give you a little history, we did start that way and it ended up the way the way we have it now. Because of that, >> did you actually give them a letter that stating we will never put plants in the middle?
>> Had to. >> Are we allowed to put pots in the middle with plants inside of them? Sorry, bad joke. No comment. Um, and yes, so we even in the beginning
we coordinated a lot with Miami Shores. We even entered into interlocal agreement with Miami Shores on this because half of 91st is is village the northern half is is Miami Shore. We had to deal with
>> So, and they also required you to have the medians fully concreted as well. >> Yeah. Well, because >> I mean buses can drive over grass and dirt. I mean, that's there's no reason that would have hindered a large vehicle, but they they said you had to
have straight concrete there. >> Yeah. Because it's it's very narrow and it's just not going to survive. >> But did they require that? >> You nodding yes. >> Well, the approved plans when they issued the
>> when they issued the when they issued the permit, those were the plans. Those were the plans which were the contractor worked on from. >> So they also would not allow grass on the medians. Okay.
Or any plants. >> Okay. Uh I'll continue and uh you know Orlando will will fill in uh as so during the first week Miami Shores came out because they had to issue the right of way
permit for their portion. So uh we had some new people from Miami Shore the public works department. So they were they they were not aware of the history uh and they required some changes uh in
that area. So we had to provide more swale and raise the sidewalk and extend it. So and and so we got that but along the the first week the contractor did milling and and they said they already
told us uh oh we are we are going to have more quantities than what you what is in the contract. So we had a field meeting to uh in the first week itself and said okay now put down your uh
change order uh proposal the quantities but so milling is removing the layer of asphalt uh from you know uh so that that then you can regrade the whole area and build up the roundabout.
So, so in the contract there was only 195 square yards of milling. It turned out you need another 1,00 uh n 97 square yards.
And and what happened is in the the unit price for the contractor was $350 per square yard. and which would have given you a $400,000 change order just for one item alone, the milling overrun.
But the contract uh uh that the contract which you know Orlando had prepared uh had to prevent uh that excess. So we there is an article 11 in the contract which said if the if the quantity goes
over 15% we have to negotiate an equitable price. So I rejected it and uh uh and and and then started negotiating and we uh we maybe did two iterations and they came back to uh us and uh we
agreed on $37 uh 13 cents per square yard which increased the just for milling by 44,000. But uh on top of it during construction uh uh we found that you know there was
electrical duct bank and and some of the uh so we had to go over and raise and increase the fill uh uh and the grading. So so there was quite a bit of uh I uh fill in the change order. So you will
see that in the change order. Now the the two big items which were of concern was milling and I I spoke to you about milling. Uh how we resolved that? We resolved that by uh negotiating from $350 a square yard to $37.13
a square yard. and and then uh the corresponding asphalt which is the final uh uh uh road work uh which will complete the roundabout in the in the current contract there was
16 tons but with the increased milling area it come that you need an additional 120 tons and the contract had it at $250 $2,500 per ton. So I again rejected that
and and said uh we need to negotiate. So we negotiated it down to $271 uh dollars and uh I think yeah 63 cents or something close to that. >> I want to stop you before we go further because there was some things in there.
You said that the original contract was for 195 square yards of milling. >> Yes. >> And then you add in another thousand square yards. >> Yeah. Yes. 1,100. So they basically put something inside of a contract. No one
read that section and got away with it. >> It was a a bit form error. Uh it was a bit form error. The the work needed to be done. It needed to be done, but it was uh you
know, so >> I got a question. No, it was a it was an error made by uh they >> I mean Orlando, you know, >> yeah, they're actual field quantities.
Um they're not outside this the project scope. Um software glitch and all, but it would have been a quantities that that that would have um um you would have paid for anyway. Um, so it's not like we we asked
the contractor to go outside the project scope to do anything new. It was within the project limits. Um, so what you're what you're paying for is is the actual um field quantities. And like Mohan said, um we they you know they
negotiated down the unit price um to to come to come closer to to a more reasonable price because of the increase in quantity. Um so because had had we those those unit prices the way the way
they bid them, it would have it would have added 700,000 plus dollars to the job. you know, this change order is only is only adding the the 167 um thanks to the negotiating that we did with u between ourselves and and and the
contractor, but the actual field quantities are within the project scope. There's nothing extra we asked them to do. It's it's it's it's within the project scope. >> Okay, Mr. Mr. Mayor, I got a question
for Attorney Geller if possible here. Yes, absolutely. >> Uh I believe you guys might be able to add some color to this as well, but uh Attorney Geller, >> well, first let me ask you gentlemen, uh the bid form error, that was a bid form error on the part of roadway
construction. >> No, >> that was a bid form error on whose part? >> Our part. >> Our part. >> Yeah, my part. >> Okay. because that is a result on two different factors of
of only accounting for 10% of needed material on the milling and then which resulted then in only accounting for 10% of the needed material for uh the asphalt the paving is that I mean 195
into 1100 and then the other one was uh uh I have it written down here oh no I didn't get to that part um Please remind me the numbers on the shortage of the the resulted in $1,200 per ton of the asphalt being reduced down to $271
and change per ton. What were those? >> $2,500 reduced to $276. >> That's correct. And so, but the it was 16. There we go. It was 16 12 tons originally on the bid form. 16 was in the original bit form and uh after the
calculations because it should match the milling area and now this is in tonnage asphalt so the additional is 120 uh.92 but the the fact is this project did not
go outside uh and add it was simply an error on the the quantities would remain the same and if we went with the the second bidder. This would become uh 800,000. >> Would they would the second bidder not
have also they made the same reduced their rates based on the outsized >> uh for two items? Yes. I I I I I used the the the the sort of the same. >> Is that common for a contractor to use a
sliding scale of cost? If they see, oh, only 16 and a half tons is needed. We'll have the price be 2500 per ton, but oh, if it's over a 100 tons needed, then we'll reduce the price. >> Yes. Because >> common practice. >> Yeah. Because you know, >> so the second so the so the second
contractor >> it's not common pract it's it's written in the contract because because of that. So, the second contractor would have adjusted their dollar amounts on their bid as well. If the correct millage uh square yardage was represented as well
as the correct tonnage of asphalt needed, they would have reduced those rates down the same. >> They would have been subject to the same requirements of the contract. So they really wouldn't have been at 800,000, but they still might have been more, but I mean they would have reduced their
their rates because of the increase in both square yardage, >> right? Because there's other items that were they were much higher on with the other contractor. So that's why he's he was showing the difference. >> So this is just a very hard pill to swallow because the reason I was originally asking attorney Geller weigh in is because I wanted to find out, you
know, how do we sue the contractor or how do we why wouldn't the contractor eat that cost? And now I'm understanding why the contractor is not going to eat that cost. >> We advised >> Yeah. What recourse do we have here, Attorney Galler?
>> We were involved with the conversations with the manager, with the engineer, with the with both Mr. Rubio and and Mr. Thumpy. Uh the reality is that however it was put forth there was a in in the
the bid form as to what would be the estimated amount there was it was not correct. But what was ultimately found? For one thing, apparently I I believe and they these are the the
experts, but we had to mill a little deeper than what was originally contemplated. And that's a result of field conditions. You know, it was thought that you could only mill down I don't know if it's measured in centimeters or whatever, but they had to
mill deeper. So there was more actual milling to be done. What as the gentlemen have said, we didn't end up having to do more milling or more
tons of asphalt than was necessary to do the job. It was it ended up in the the proper amount. It just was not properly I guess put out because of the bid form
thing they mentioned. The estimate of what would be required did not match the field conditions. The field conditions to do the job required more. The second
bidder bid higher. That's why they weren't chosen among other factors. I mean they look at other things but they were considerably higher as you I mean you seem to have a pretty good grasp of this council person as um they would have similarly been not
because they're nice guys but because as Mr. Rubio said the contract requires them if there's a substantial change to negotiate with us to an equitable conclusion that takes into effect account what you just stated. So yeah,
they wouldn't have been over 800,000. They would have had to come down on the additional work that was being found necessary, >> but still likely would have been still >> well. It would have still been higher. They started higher. So if they
presuming that they had come down in the same percentage to the same kind of reduction we got out of number one, they would have ended up higher. Now if number one in negotiating had not come across so to speak with
something that we could live with that was reasonable we could and that was why I was you know consulted by the manager and by Mr. Thumpy and and and Mr. Rubio, if they had said, "Well, no, we're going to be at a higher number." We had the
option of saying, "Well, then you're defaulted. You've not negotiated in good faith. We're going to go to number two because we think we can get a better price." But where they had asked over 700,000 for the change order and we had talked about if they were not
reasonable, we contemplated litigation against them if they were going to be hardline and declaring them in default. But where they ended up in the end coming all the way down from 700,000 plus that they demanded to 167
all of which in the opinion of our experts was necessary to complete the job based on the field conditions. You know, if there's a misstatement, there's a misstatement, but you still have to do the job to professional engineering
standards in sufficient quantity to close everything out. There's no getting around that. And since they ultimately came down to what was a much more reasonable uh demand for the change order, there is
also a slight extension of time, not excessive, but they get additional time because if they don't finish in time, >> we go after them for liquidated damages. And that is still an option of ours if they end up not finishing in time. But
the feeling was that they had moved. Sounds like this also affects FPL's timeline. So FPL >> absolutely and FPL's delay in part as the manager is echoing behind me also contributed to the need for a delay because the contractors not responsible
when FPL >> well I don't want to point the finger too much could have acted quicker. Let's put it that way. >> So now that I've uh understand all of that I've arrived at another question. So, uh assuming that
we would not approve uh this uh tonight, then that exposes us the village to uh being sued by the contractor. Is that correct? >> We would absolutely end up in litigation with this contractor. We would declare
them in default. They would sue us for wrongful termination. We would have to go to the second contractor. we'd have to negotiate a price with them for the extra work. Um, all of which is a lot of litigation cost. Uh, and you know, our
desire always, as you know, is to keep the village out of litigation. We're We don't need to be paying attorneys fees on some protracted piece of construction litigation with tons of experts and documents and all of that over
a relatively small price increase compared to the original contract. And the feeling was that any benefit that might be gained if we had I mean we we did pretty well. I
have to thank these gentlemen. I think they negotiated well on our behalf. The the idea that we would litigate over what is relatively speaking compared to the size of the job a small amount of money. Litigation costs would quickly
eat up any possible savings that we'd have and we're not in business to be paying my firm or any other firm of attorneys that kind of money over a relatively small change order. So the the decision from with the
administration was they've bargained with us in good faith. They've negotiated down. It's still a better deal than we could have gotten from number two. It's relatively a smaller percentage of the overall contract. We don't want to litigate and we want the
project done and a minimum otherwise there could be you know further delays too and residents inconvenience. We don't want any of that. That's why this is on the agenda for a negotiated and seemingly relatively reasonable
agreement thanks to the work of our manager and Mr. Thampy and Mr. Rubio. >> Very good. That I arrived at another question uh for Mr. Rubio. First I just want to say thank you for your cander.
Uh but I do want to understand how because it's described as an error. It's not described as an oversight or um or a discovery, right? Like once we started uh you know peeling the the first layer then realizing that more millillage was
uh was more milling forgive me was necessary. So I'm just trying to understand the origin of of of how that is described as an error as opposed to a miscalculation. Can you just help me? >> It's just it's basically it's just a a a software glitch in the calculations.
There's a soft okay there's a software glitch in the calculation. >> That's all I can >> So you're inputting uh data you're inputting data into fields >> it then >> well in the bid schedule and yeah >> whatever we got from from you know from the calculations we put in the bid in
the bid form and those and those were the quantities and those two items were not right and we're sorry about that. >> So this was not like a a a transcription error from pen and paper calculation into the field. It was it was a software it that >> it's been so long. So it it could have
been that but I just >> Okay. So So in theory we should have realized the amount of material initially needed it. This is not necessarily just pure discovery once the once the project was started. Is that I just want to understand
>> if the contractor had noted it in if either of the contractors Yeah. had noted it when they were bidding and said, "Well, gee, that looks kind of small, but they field conditions in terms of the depth of the milling. You have kind of have to get there." The
manager also reminds me that had we not reached this agreement, had we decided to go into litigation. Some of this money, I mean, there's, you know, we're receiving grant money from Florida Department of Transportation that pays
for this in part. Um, and if we did not complete on time because we got into this litigation, there was at least some chance that we would lose some of the grant money that's helping to pay for this because FOT might say you didn't
timely complete the project. So, >> does the grant award increase in light of this action? >> It does not. >> I believe it doesn't. They give us a fixed amount and that's how much they give us and >> the rest is us. >> That's right. Because a while ago when
before we went out to bid I did ask do if um if the bids were really high would would would f you know mean us more halfway and they said no that was the the 300 was it >> very good. >> I I believe I'm out of questions. I have
some >> uh yeah, let's go with um council person Lightoot Ward. I don't think she spoke on this yet. And then we'll come back to council person winters. >> Okay. The village of Elcroer hereby approves and adopts change audit number one with a net increase in the amount of $167,15
and the83 and total CR contract price in the amount of $719,938.31 along with a net increase of contract time of 28 days and a total contract time of 118 days.
>> That is correct. connection with >> Yes, ma'am. >> engineering services for the Horseman Middle School safety roundabout. This is it. >> Yes, ma'am. That's the item. That is the correct item. That's what I read into the record. Notwithstanding that there was a little misprint on there, but yes,
that is the correct item. That's what we're considering. That is the amount of the increase is 167. Then it gives the total including that and the amount of days extension. They're getting 28 days
which takes them to I think originally it was 90 and it now gives them a total of 118 because of not only having to do more than was originally anticipated but also some complications where FPL had a
delay and so you know we're yes that but what you read is the item that's in front of us as it is in your packet as it was originally noticed notwithstanding the typo. >> Are we ready to vote this? >> Nope. >> Okay, keep going.
>> So, I have ideas. I like to think outside the box. Uh, half this street is owned by Miami Shores. Can we get in the pay part of this? >> Is it? >> Yeah. extend the dead. >> Well, when we met with them, they they supported the roundabout for safety
purposes because that that was the whole, you know, goal at the time was get it built because people are doing 40 50 miles an hour. That's right. On on Northwest Second where kids are walking back and forth. >> Um, so
they did not want to participate financially. Tell the residents of Miami Shores on that street that Elportal can't afford it and they're going to have nothing but gravel there until Miami Shores takes care of it and let them jump on with their larger budget. Miss Aloo is going to be on the uh charter soon, right? Maybe she could
help out. >> Well, I I can also add we do have an interlocal agreement with Miami Shores that states that we are financially responsible for the project. >> But yeah, we you know, we we >> I mean, I know how to drive on gravel roads. I mean, we can get used to it until Miami Shores gets sick of it. It
would slow down traffic. You're right. So, that one idea. A second idea is we're putting this in right now and we're milling and whatever is going else is going on. Are we going to be tearing this up when we have to do sewers?
>> When we go septic to sewers, are we tearing this up anyways to put the sewer system in? Since do excuse me. So again, it's been a while since we did I did a look at the sanitary sewer master plan, but um since those homes are the
terminal ends of the um of the village, um there's ways to avoid that intersection. Um it just depends where the where the houses are located in their septic tank drain fields and how to connect to them. Um but >> but it doesn't sound like it is because
you have houses on each corner there. recall where we actually, you know, laid out the the sewers, you know, conceptually um back in 2008, I believe, when we did. >> So, I'm going to switch to my next question, Mr. Mayor. May Mr. Mayor, is there any grant money left for the septic to sewer stuff in our in our
grants anywhere? >> 1%. Can I answer that question because I was involved uh uh we had a design for about 90 homes uh uh for uh septic to sewer which is more closer to the canal.
Uh what happened is uh the Miami date county had a received a lot of money from you know FD to do septic and sewer and El Potel did not have the money. We were going to borrow the money like $4
million, but at that meeting uh it was the first meeting I found out that septic to sewer was covered. So, so and they were looking for a project Miami date county and guess what? El Portal got in and they took over. They have
taken over the whole project so it won't cost El money. They they are doing the design and I don't know what you know the person called Debbie Grryer. Did you did you speak to Debbie Grryer? Uh yeah she she's she's the one in charge of the
project but it that that project is now being designed uh by Miami date county. So at the at using their grant money. >> So we don't have any grant money left for it then. >> No. Yeah. There's no expense for us. Well, my thought is that if we're going
to have a sewer there anyways, why not put the lines underneath there and use the grant money for that as it's going to be a sewer system at some point? >> That design look uh you know th this project since 2019 it should have been
built 2 three years earlier and uh now uh that septic to septic to sew now it's in the hands of the county. It's their schedule. it it's under design. It's not ready for construction yet. >> So, let's look at another option here because there's quite a few things we
can do without wasting the taxpayers monies in the six figure range. >> One second. Uh sir person just let me just come in real quick. So, um the thing with Debbie Grinder and and the county taking it over um that was myself and the manager that was involved in that and it's fully funded. But where
the roundabout is um you all it's down further. The first phase of our septa sewer is west of Horus man. West of Horus man where the roundabout is is on north um west second.
>> So that's on the east side of Horus man. That's not the side where the sewer phase one is going. All right. So so wouldn't matter. And then another thing just kind of keep in mind and I've said this in other meetings but I'm I'm not saying that you know people are forgetting but just always keep in mind when it comes to government when they
allocate funds to a certain project you can't just take those funds from that thing and say I can use them over here. They allocate it for that particular project and if you don't use it just take it back. Okay. So that's how Oh go ahead congress. >> So the next thought is the reason for the roundabout was to mitigate traffic
and its speed. If we're going to tear up this road anyways in the next five, ten years, can we make a road there or a roundabout there that allows it to be torn up and put back down like cobblestone? It's a beautiful allows you to pick it up, put it to the sides, and
then put your sewers in, then put it right back down. And we don't have to like replace it. We could reuse it and then we wouldn't have to spend another whatever $150,000 next time because it would only be in the roundabout. Well, as far as pavers or cobblestone,
that was the one thing the county didn't comment on. Well, yeah, you could probably do. >> So, it's possibility. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> But again, it's it's still there right away, and their policies change every year. So, >> I'd love to hear what the residents have to say about it, too. And I'm sure there's a lot of comment tonight with
this. >> Anybody else from the uh council questions, comments? >> Yes. Uh, we're talking about being in front of Horseman or behind Horseman Middle School. >> We're at the north. We're at the
northeast side of Horseman. >> Not the northwest. >> It's on No, >> it's >> north of >> It's at the intersection of Northwest Second and 91st Street,
>> but it's in the front side. We're at the you guys. >> It's not in the back side. It's in the front side. That's what I'm That's what I'm talking about. >> Yeah. Way on the very northern end of the Exactly. of the school >> on the but on the road.
>> I have a whole new question. I understand the I understand option A is to have Miami Day County take over the septic to sewer project if they're going to fund it. However, my whole new question is why wouldn't
that decision be brought in front of a full council? Because there are other options. Could we not issue a bond for $4 million and we maintain control of the septic to sewer project? I don't want to get away from the discussion about the roundabout, but I now have
this question in my head of how was the council not involved with the decision to turn the septic to sewer project over to the county? and the county seems to be a little bit at the heart of a lot of the issues here. We're glad that they let us, you know, reduce the speed limits that we're glad that uh, you
know, the roundabout was a good idea. Uh, but it seems that the county essentially is a large part of the reason we don't have what we want out of this project. And, you know, uh, uh, I never wanted to be in a position of being a politician, but I've got my
first boondoggle here. So, all right. Council person, the to do the whole village may be $30 million. This $4 million is the first portion and it's something that >> is a bond not an option to fund that.
>> Well, yeah, except that when you do a bond, the people sitting here pay for it. >> That's right. And if the county comes to us and says, "We're gonna pay the $4 million instead of making you and your
citizens pay the $4 million." Usually the answer to that is >> thank you. Yes. >> Thank you for paying the $4 million for us. We because we may need that bond unless it's >> for phase two or phase three or phase
four. In the meantime, >> it's other people's money. I get it. And that's why I have a problem with logic because uh because it's there's no such thing as logic. There's only such thing as your logic. And so uh and so my of
course that seems like an obvious choice until you're dealing with an entity that has no fiduciary responsibility to the village. They're going to do what they wish to do and we will lose control of
the pro. I'm I'm all I'm saying is on something like that, I have grave concerns that that would not at least be brought to the full council for at least a discussion. If they're they're still in design at at some point there
presumably will need to be an interlocal between us and them, but there's not a design yet to to apply that to. I mean, I I suppose that if they came up with something that was like really stupid
that we could always say keep your $4 million, we'd rather pay it ourselves because we presumably will still have to do an interlocal or see their plans or something. But there's not like this is not the roundabout we're talking about
on on septic to sewer, right? >> It's a pretty routine thing. You you install sewer lines in a acceptable engineering fashion so they won't bust. >> Yes. But this goes back to my previous comment. The putting the gas line through right here to the generator is a
pretty routine thing. But the result of that was having a resident who has a flooded property now. So, so I mean for me it just goes to if we are going to there is a there's always a potential
you're not incorrect but the county mayor said we're going to help out this small municipality. We're interested in converting septic to sewer for environmental reasons. It's a
county priority thanks to this mayor. this county mayor that our mayor has spent so much time working with and they said, "We're going to help out this small financially challenged entity.
We're going to help make our county better by converting septic tanks to sewer where possible. And we're going to relieve these citizens of $4 million that they might have to pay through bonds or some other mechanism. And
>> how much how much did Newman pay for the little farm? >> How much? >> How much? >> 37 million. >> 37 million. Okay. >> It was It was 70.5. >> Oh, 75. >> 70.5. Okay. So, they're going to build something that's going to generate over
20 years what? Hundreds of millions of dollars. And so so they they haven't gotten approved by >> to do anything by this council. So we don't know what they're going to end up doing. So far, you know, we don't have a
a >> it's not that easy to develop in this in this town. Ask the people who've owned that old church for years and years. >> Yes. We what I'm saying is there are we haven't given up our right to observe
what they do and to comment on it and to make sure it's satisfactory. It's likely that they're going to >> it would be hard for them to do septic to sewer conversion in a way in such a non-standard way that we would object.
But we have not waved that right by to review it. It will still go through our professionals, our manager council. >> Staying on the subject of the I I I go off on tangents, but going back to this
the explicit subject of this roundabout. >> Uh it is it is a point of exhaustion at some point of of being the last to find out this that or the other. Uh
from on the council. It's it's it's it's arriving at a point of exhaustion. >> Anyone else from the council? Question or comments? >> All right. >> M Mr. Mayor, one question. When is this
going to be started? When is it supposed to finish? >> We can stop doing this. >> It's basically close to done. done as in done to talking or done the project is finished. >> I'll defer to the engineers on that.
>> Yeah, you're talking about the round roundabout. >> Yeah, actually uh if everything goes good, they may even be done uh by mid mid November. Right now with the change order their completion date will be around December 8th but it they may be
done by uh uh before Thanksgiving mid mid November. So >> keep us keep us keep us informed because this is getting to be ridiculous. This is the second time that we've heard it and it always looks like it's got bureauc bure bureaucracy. >> We we will be on schedule. On top of it,
we need to complete this in order to meet the FOG grant requirements. They already extended the grant date so many times. So, so, so we have to finish this by December anyway. >> Thank you. >> And it'll be done that. They are they're
just waiting for the change order to be approved because a lot of the asphalt is in the the final asphalt for the roundabout is in the change order. I would really like to hear from the residents.
Any other questions or comments from the council hearing? Seeing none, can I have you guys move over here to this uh podium? Okay. Hearing seeing none from the council, I'm going to go order open up to the audience. Um come to your podium name
and address for the record, please. >> Uh yes. Good evening. Uh my name is Warner Dreer. I'm at 486 Northeast 87 Street. Um so the first topic is regarding the traffic circle. Um I noticed in the agenda we have
approximately what is it 120 something 20 an additional cost right? >> So I did some averages here on Miami data on what's the average cost for uh traffic circle. So I did I picked up three random ones. So based on 2014 uh
I'm sorry 2024 data um I got three um an I think I've show I forward to one of the members. So for South Miami there were two uh projects uh one for 495 the other one for 15. Then we also have for
North Miami there's another and this is all public records. It's about $400,000. So I heard um information such as oh it's a soft uh software glitch on the total number of uh or software uh an
entry perhaps on the uh total number of hours being dedicated to the project or the overrun and the expense of the project. Um since we have a project here, do we at least have a timeline? Have we seen the uh work down structure of the project with the council or
somebody who's overseeing the public works? um a lease area here. >> What timeline are you talking about? >> Well, you did mention we the I think it was 119 days. So, a regular timeline has
from the planning the execution, right? And each of the work works work. Well, we don't have any task or any >> go ahead. >> Sorry, no worries. So the con the original the construction
contract time is is was 90 days. So for notice to proceed they have 90 days to complete the job. If they fail to complete the job in 90 days yeah they get hit with liquidating damage. they the contractor. Um, but with these change orders with the
change order and the delays that they experienced with the the plans that were being produced by FPNL because they've been they've been they've had they've had some days where they couldn't work because they they they can't they can't do any road work
until they install the underground conduits to for the lighting. So they they estimated what the what the delay was were going to be and they're they're 28 days. Are they going to take the 28 days? Probably not because they're like
uh Mohan said they're they're they're getting real close to to being done, but they they just got to get the conduits in >> and get and get that going. But that >> Yeah. And I don't challenge that, Orlando. I appreciate that update. But at least when we run a project, you know, we usually have a timeline, a
project, somebody's following up on each of the tasks or at least at a high level, right? And that's just a concern that I'm here with, right? Um, do we also have like some sort of uh breakdown of any financials like okay, this work
group is going to take xyz amount of time, I'm sorry, uh, monies, right? So something that may have perhaps we we can see at least from I'm not sure who the public works I used to be the public works director I'm sorry uh chairperson
at that time but perhaps whoever is the public works chairperson here not sure who's running the committee >> but at least from my my perspective I would like I would definitely >> keep the village you know um staff um
informed of all the all the reviews that we were going through with that deal. So we >> and and I appreciate it, but maybe running moving forward, can we at least request, you know, we have a project manager assigned to this project. Can we
at least somehow have like a maybe a high level timeline at a high level? These are the work groups. This is the total duration for each of the tasks under the work groups. So at least we can get an idea and then we have at least the risk that we're seeing and
perhaps what do we need right to mitigate those risks which are that 101 from a project management perspective and maybe that will help us get us back on on track with the timeline and track the timeline. Sir, the contractor is
required to produce a a timeline of his of his work and and and the group u cap engineering has their schedule um and they're and they're to follow that schedule that they produce to work within those 90 days and
>> but if I understood correctly, Orlando, with all your respect, I heard uh Mr. Campy say there was no timeline. That's what I'm I'm asking. If if whoever the contractor is, can we >> No, there is a time. No, there's there's a there's a contract time. There's >> so who's the project manager from the
side of the village who's overseeing all this timelines? >> Excuse me. I I'm the construction uh you know manager for for the project. >> Okay. >> And and there is a schedule that the contractor is following the schedule. We have inspectors when they do work.
>> So uh you know I do not understand what you are requesting. >> My request is very simple. I would like to see a very high level timeline of the project. There's a schedule provided by the contract. >> Can we see that schedule then? It's a schedule. >> And what do you want to do with it?
>> I'm sorry. >> I mean, we we give it to you. What do you want to do with it? >> So, it's not just me, but it's at least from the public works director at least for the A, B, C, and D. We have completed A,
B, C, and D. This is still remaining. What are the mitigation? the risk and how can we move forward? >> You know, we do the work and like when we inspect, we have field meetings and
and we have inspection reports and all that stuff. So in the field everything doesn't go according to in in a straight line as long as they finish within the the time period
uh in the contract. So, so uh so, so it is inspected and we pay them for the work which is completed. >> I I agree things do not go as planned but when what I understand the project started mid August and now we're getting into a time frame of end of December
when we had estimated 119 days I think that timeline goes beyond the 119 days. So at at this point we are going beyond the I think the construction >> the difference Mr. Dreer. Yeah. The the date they gave was December 8th. It's
precisely an a 28 day extension from 90 days was original. 28-day extension takes it to December 8th. That is the precise date. It is not beyond the time with the 28 day extension. And if they go over that, they will pay for it.
Okay? >> We get liquidated damages. if they exceed the 118 days they will get with the 28 day extension both because there was more work to do in the scope than was anticipated and because of FPL. So I
understand your concern. It's not wrong for you to have the concern, but the answer is it's a 28 day extension. It goes to December 8th. Um the we've heard from our engineers they may well have it
done about 10 days to two weeks prior to that. They may not need the whole 28 days. They may need 14 or 15 of the 28 days and it looks like they might have it done before Thanksgiving. It is an important issue that you raise. It needs
to be monitored but that's what they're doing. They are I mean day by day by day the extension they're being given. We're not giving them 30 days. We're giving them exactly 28, exactly what they've
shown the need and the justification for. If we were just like doing it willy-nilly, we'd say, "Well, is 90 take another 30?" We're not. We're we're doing precisely at 28 what they have documented to the project manager and
the consulting engineer. And if they do not finish on that day, >> they will pay us liquidated damages that'll be in effect deducted from the contract balance that we're going to be paying them.
>> Yeah. And and I understand that uh I understand we may be o overrun. We are already over budget for the project, but what I'm asking is just a simple highlevel timeline. I I understand you're saying we keeping track of it. >> No, but it's there. I mean, if you want
to look at it, it's a public record, Mr. Chair. You know, and like any other public record, you know, we'll be happy to make it available to you. You're a citizen. It is a public record. It exists. They have it. And if you'd like a copy, I'm sure we can get a copy.
>> Definitely. And it's just not because I'm just asking. I'm just asking these questions to help us. U there's a lot of questions from the the council. I'm not sure if the council has a seen a timeline, a project timeline. >> You have every right to ask the
question. Yeah, you have every right to the document. They have it and we'll be happy to have them furnish it to you. You have every right to ask >> and it's just not for me. It's not only for me but I think it will help in the process of asking all these questions right to move forward with the project
especially >> nobody we don't expect our our town coun our village council to be the project managers that's why we have engineers I'm just your question is fine >> your request is fine I'm just trying to assure you
>> the document exists they have it they've been monitoring it and if you know you've asked for will get it to you. You have every right to ask it and every right to see it and to make sure that it exists as they're saying it does and and to look at it. No, >> exactly. And it's not just for me,
right? It's >> understand you're speaking for your neighbors. We get that. >> And then and in general, sometimes they're not technical either. They don't need to know the breakdown, but at least have a maybe a two PowerPoint slide just show here where we're the project, here's where we're moving.
>> Mr. Freyer, I definitely want to assure you that we understand why you're requesting it and underscore what Attorney Geller said, which is that you can definitely make a public records request and you can see it. Um, there may be members of the council that may want to share that information with you
or see that information themselves. I feel comfortable with the information that I've received concerning the existence of a timeline. reporting the existence of the timeline. Like like attorney Geller said, I am not the project manager, so I'm not out there
measuring asphalt or milling with them, but I trust that city staff is giving me their professional opinion on the timeline that exists and the outside of when it would be over scheduled. >> So you don't validate any information.
wouldn't help you like a maybe a one slider or two slider to get a visual representation. Here's where with the project here is where we're moving forward. I'm just asking this questions to help you guys, right? At least ask the questions and visualize that. >> So, I don't I don't need I don't need
any help in um asking questions or obtaining information for me to feel comfortable with my decisions. I spent a lot of time looking at a lot of documents and talking to village staff about different things. We all have certain issues in how we learn, how we receive information, how we would like
to be presented with information. I understand that for you, you're saying that you would want that timeline and you want to see it. And I'm saying it does exist. You can request it. There is also other residents in the room that might want to opine on the same issue.
So now would be a good time for you to um accept the information and the responses that have been given to you and for us to acknowledge for you that we've heard you. We understand why you're requesting it. Um and
>> we support you in requesting it and now would be a good time to allow Mr. Pace probably to have an opportunity to apply. actually have a second that was my second question that I addressed based on the averages on other three cities why we are at a significant
increase in the in the timeline. >> This was a bid correct. So we put it out. We put out the bid as I'm sure North Miami or other municipalities put out the bid and we can't control who responds to those bids or the business
case that they're using to say, "Hey, I'm not going to pursue this." I don't know if there were multiple roundabouts done in those municipalities and maybe that impacted the economics. I don't know how much the unit price of certain materials have changed from that 2024 to
2025. So there are a lot of factors involved in it, but I do know that it was a bid. It was put out to all of the biders to respond to and we can only look at those persons and entities who chose to bid and then analyze what
exists. >> Did we ask at least what's the average cost of a turnar rot or or uh here uh for 2024 2025 and compare to what we have? >> We could reject all bids, Mr. Dreer, but short of that, you know, we we can't
tell bidders how much to bid. They bid and those who want the job bid as low as they can to try to get the job. And you know, if it's impossible financially for us to do, then we may have to reject all
bids and not do work. But where we're talking about, I mean, quite candidly, safety considerations and some kid possibly being run over leaving school. Um, where it was possible within our
budget with the help of a grant that our administration, our mayor, our council helped to obtain to have part of it paid for by other people. the we took the lowest bid and and it was doable and it
was intended to be >> saving lives of children. So maybe somebody else somewhere for whatever reason got a lower bid. Maybe uh it was a whatever it is >> bid. Yeah.
>> Yeah. But three cities but it but it wasn't an open bid and you guys are not imagining it right. the fact that there is this change. There was this error, right? This is not something that is uh desirable. This is not something being cut caught unawares in this way is not
something that um we're excited about. Do we wish that there wasn't this glitch or there was some more precision in the way it was done? Definitely. The situation that we find ourselves in is that we already have this thing
substantially completed. There has been this error that you guys have mitigated somewhat and I'm hesitant to say kudos on that because we wish that the error wasn't made in the first place. But where we find ourselves is what do we want to do at this juncture? Do we then
say no, we don't want to complete this thing? We don't want that those grant funds. We're just going to leave it as is. or are we going to address the problem that we find ourselves in? And for future projects, we can talk about some of the things we're talking about.
But in this one, I think there's still that big question mark as to what is the will of the body tonight as it relates to the change order so that we can get this thing sealed up and done. Uh number one. Number two, not that it is a great
thing, but change orders are not unique. um going into the field and finding something that you didn't anticipate. And I know that that's not the case here because this is an error on our part. Um but change orders happen, folks. Um and
they're undesirable. We can talk about the forensics on how not to have this done again. We can talk about whether or not this cap government needs to be the person doing what we want them to do right now. Um, but we still have the problem of what are we going to do about
the open roundabout that we have and how do we complete it? That is what we're talking about. >> So, Mr. former council person Dreer, I just want to say this. I do not agree with the council person next to me. I do not trust them because we are in this
situation right now because we didn't get the correct information. So, I think what you're doing is exactly what we need to have done. I would love to see this public records request if you get pulled up to see what's going on. I think we need to go through this with a fine tooth comb because right now we're in a bad situation at six figures
because we did not do enough looking, enough searching. Thank you. >> Thank you. And there will be council people on this council who will always say that there is something that you need to look out for. That there needs there's something untoward happening. And I don't doubt that the council
person next to me wants you to feel distrust, fear, disdain, all of those things. I encourage you I encourage you to take a different path to understand sometimes errors happen. We need to
address them. There are not always bad actors, but we can come up with a solution that doesn't necessarily vilify anyone, solves the problem, and still speaks to optimism and communal
connectivity and all of those beautiful things that make us Elportal. So, I understand that the temperature in the room is ratcheting up and some people want it to be ratcheted up, but I encourage us to fight against that and just come up with solutions to the
problems that are at hand without necessarily overblowing them or mischaracterizing them. Yes, this is an issue. Yes, CAP government, you did something that was undesirable. >> Uh, no, no, no. We were not the ones who prepared the plan.
>> The bid form? No, the bid form. No. >> Who did the bits? >> Sorry. Thank you. >> We we did the construction management and believe you know it could have gone the other way but fortunately the contractor worked with us and and I led
the way. I'm the one who rejected it and then made all the calls and then Orlando came in and said uh >> uh yeah, we have language in the contract and and so I I rejected it immediately the moment I saw that. But then they worked with me. Perfect. So I
I I see that point. We This is undesirable. Something happened that we did not want to happen. Is it a part of a grand conspiracy? I don't think so. I think it is an error. I think we need to address the error. Right. I think we need to insulate ourselves from having
that error repeat itself. I don't think this is the time for us to then turn around and look at each other and look at our neighbors and then think the worst. I encourage you to think the best. Sometimes errors happen. They are unfortunate. We need to address them. We
can do so without vilifying anybody, without making folks in this room have to raise their voice or raise their temperatures. We're smarter than that. We're kinder than that. We can do it. >> And I think you've also had a tremendous
amount of time to speak. And I'm willing to give you more. But I also think that another form of kindness to your neighbors is allowing them the opportunity to fully participate in the >> I'll be very kind, Council Person Martin, just to clarify, I think from my perspective, I'm not here to vilify
anybody or blame anybody. I was talking about No, but just to be clear, I'm proposing here a solution how we can move forward and provide visibility. That's my only recommendation. and and my other just clarification and thank you very much for allowing me the
time but as form I need to clarify one comment that was made on the prior uh comment regarding the septic to sewer project. It was stated that it was going to cost the village $4 million. As former director of the public works
when I served here in the community from 2016 to 2018, we secured a grant for the village for $4 million with a$1 million. Yes, it is. You did not even I I have a knot from the the
>> loan. You're talking about the revolving fund. >> It's a grant from the state. No, I have the documentation. We have even the FR all the documentation that was submitted from the engineerings. I think that is very incorrect what you're stating and it was a $4 million grant from the state
with a $1 million loan at a point. 05 uh we have all the documentations I can even forward that to you. So there needs to be clarity on that statement and that's what I'm correcting as a >> thank you so much. Thank you so much. I appreciate it
>> Mr. Pace. Noble Pace 206 Northwest 91st Street. I I think that the term that's been used a lot tonight is desired. Okay. And I think there's a lot to still be desired uh from this. It's been referred to now
uh in the social media as a boondoggle uh a debacle. Um you know, pick your pick your thing. And for me, I I had there were some very kind and nice residents here that said, "Hey, don't spend any more money. Just stop what
you're doing." Well, it doesn't really work that way. Okay? And so now we have to fix things and bring them to standard. And I I want to remind the council and I want to remind our constitutional officers, Elportal has standards. We had a sharet.
We have a plan, an urban plan. Okay. F DOT, who we sounds like we got the money from here, has their own guidance. They say that every island in a roundabout should be considered to have green
space, greenery, grass, deciduous trees, and so on. But at the same time, FDOT gives us the money or the C. I mean, I want to remind everyone here, we don't work for FDOT. We don't work for the county. We don't work for the county mayor. We don't work for the state. We
don't work for Miami Shores. And let's talk a little bit about Miami Shores. Okay. The reason why there's people speeding down Northwest Second Avenue is because Miami Shores basically cut off all their streets and have pushed tons of traffic that was not normally here
and wouldn't normally be here into Elportal's streets. Okay? They have they have increased our depreciation of our roads. They have caused speeding in our streets. We're talking about the safety of kids near a school here.
>> Now you're telling me that, oh, Miami Shores doesn't want to contribute to something that's half on their technically on their property, right? Well, you guys need to change that attitude toward Miami Shores. And I think you should go after them a little bit here. Okay? They need to contribute
to this. Okay? They need to help fix this. And there's lots of ways that they can do that. But I'm sort of tired of the of the hand in the face from Miami Shores about this where hey, if this is a joint project on a joint border, why is it all
El Pal responsibility? We're always coming back to the same taxpayers, the same small town, the same thing when half the property, even half the adjacent properties on our street are Miami Shores properties. Think you guys need to look that. And now let's talk about this error that you guys have.
There's a thing called errors and omission insurance. Why isn't that being considered here? We're where I mean just hey come back to the taxpayers again and bail everybody out. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. There these do these things need to be looked
at. All right. Now, hey, my property happens to be adjacent there. Okay. I I did there were people that said that they don't care. They're on 88th Street. Well, guess what? I do care. First of all, I care about I our property. We have tons of children. I don't want to
say that they're loitering, but they are waiting for the bus or for rides or pickups in the afternoon. They congregate in now what is going to be the west side traffic circle going back to the standards. All right? And so they and so they need to be taken care of. We
need to make sure that we have something there that is going to be safe for them. Okay? If if cars can drive right through the circle, if buses can drive right through the circle, then the whole point of the circle makes no sense. It didn't make any sense at all. So, so the thing
is going back to the standards, this project should have never been approved if the plans that of a renderings that no one ever on the council saw, past or present, didn't meet our standards here in Elportal. We're we're talking about
aesthetic standards for um the uh the houses and everything else that we have here. Hey, we already have a traffic circle here on the east side. Pavers, red sidewalks, low curbs,
deciduous trees, green space in the islands. Everything that is part of the Elportal Standard, part of our urban plan is not on that side of town. Now on the west side, last thing about the sewers. So I mean, so hey, so I I encourage you guys to fix
this. All right? And start holding some people accountable, okay? If you guys screwed up, you screwed up. Have your insurance covered. Okay? We need to bring our things back to standard here. If you guys walk by this,
you've just set a new lower standard. Don't do that. Okay? Time to time to put some grit in here. Don't put up with Miami Shores nonsense. Don't put up with these people's nonsense, okay? The the the people here care about this village. We elected you. We care about you. We
want you to be successful. And if you're successful, we're successful. All right? So, let's get at it. Let's get on them. All right? Let's get this thing fixed. Okay? It can be actually a pretty good project. It should provide safety for the kids, but it can't look like a turnpipe exit. All right? That's not
what we do here. Okay? And everybody knows that. So, I don't know why we're always beating around the bush on some of these things, but hey, accountability matters here. Okay? And some people really messed up on this thing. All right? So, and and it doesn't give me
any pleasure to say that. I don't want to hey, if I'm a professional, I don't want somebody criticizing me, okay? And I am. So, but but hey, people need to start taking some pride in their work and getting stuff done right. All right? That's it. >> Thank you very much.
Daniel Ro, 60 Northeast 86 Street. I'll keep it short. What Joel just what Mr. Pace just said, you guys made a mistake. Very grateful that you came came out about it, but you have multiple opportunities to catch it. As an engineer, you input numbers into a data
sheet, you get numbers back. You're supposed to be able to see if the numbers are ballpark or not. They were not. Now, as a consultant, you should have some kind of insurance for these type of situations. And as a city, we should be able to go after something for
that because it's costing our city $200,000. [Music] Well, $720. Thank you. >> Thank you. brief as well. Edna Edelman, 301 Northeast 88th Street. I have two
points. Um, one, I I don't understand how this project was created without actually consulting with Miami Shores and RS man. Why is Elportal, a tiny little village with very little money, going at it alone? I
mean, how was that actually um How how is that project ever even put on the books? And the second point is um where's the money coming from for this change order? What's not going to be done? I mean, a budget isn't just, you
know, a list of, you know, of of ideas. It's a concrete thing. We have money coming in and money going out. Where is this money coming from? Um I'd like an answer to that. Okay. Thank you.
Velvet Connelly, 355 Northeast 87th Street. Um, in general, I feel like I'm noticing uh a bit of a pattern with how we are handling things in Alport because last month when we were here and it was the Bington brothers uh the developers
for Kavista and they made some, you know, misjudgment in in their assessment of things and then we were discussing hundreds of thousands of dollars that we are out um and somehow El Portal was seen as the one that should carry the bag and Now, this is seeming like a
similar pattern where again, somebody makes a mistake and it's fine. We all make mistakes. We we you know, we're we're human, right? And so, I can respect the fact that you made a professional error. But I agree with my constituent that that's what insurance is for. That's what an ENO policy is
for, right? If a professional makes an error in their professional capacity, then it's the insurance company or somebody who takes accountability, right? It's not for the village to take the responsibility for a mistake that wasn't made on the village's part. And for me, that's really the issue. If you
guys made the mistake, 100% there's grace for that. People make mistakes, but then the right thing to do is take responsibility for your mistake and find a solution that doesn't then equal that the the residents of the village have to shoulder the burden of a mistake that was made by your firm. That's where I
think it becomes an unacceptable solution because that's not a solution, right? Um, and so I just think in general our policy as the village can't be and I I fully agree with with uh Vice Mayor Martin, right? Like we're not here to villainize anyone, right? It's not
about putting people down or trying to make somebody out to seem like they're being nefarious, but it is about asking people to take accountability for whatever their actions are. And if you guys made a mistake, then you should be the ones to come to us with a right-sized solution that doesn't
involve burdening the taxpayer with footing the bill. That that's not an acceptable solution to this problem. So, I'm not really sure um in general, you know, uh what the options are to fix this, but so far, all I've heard, and
and anybody can correct me if I'm wrong, if I miss something, but all I've heard so far is that only thing put on the table is the change order for $167,000 plus. That's the only solution. So, I would just like to know, are there other options? Are there other things that we
haven't discussed either because it's not best practice because maybe, you know, we haven't thought much about it. I don't know what the alternatives are, but I would like to be presented with some other alternatives than just we pay $167,000 for a miscalculation.
>> Ma'am, let me try and respond to your question. >> Um, >> I think there's a little bit of a confusion here about the nature of the quote error. >> Okay. The error, which is the word they used, I'm not sure that's the word I would have chosen,
is not costing us more than the job should be costing us. It comes perhaps as a bit of a surprise because we thought we could get it
cheaper based on what the original estimate was. So, our our budget estimate may have been off, but the scope of work that they were contracted to do, the
contractor was contracted to do, is not actually more than what the field conditions demand. So, it would have been better if we'd known that it needed more milling a little deeper and that it was going to
take more asphalt and that it was going to cost us more. But it's not actually we're not paying money. If we had estimated it better, it would
have cost what it's costing with the change order, maybe more had we negotiated it because that's the amount of work that needs to be done out there to do this. We just I mean it's not a
good thing that we didn't know in advance that it was more work and would cost more. But basically what it is is there was more work than we thought that had to be done and it would have ended
up costing us the higher amount. We just would have been a little bit better prepared for it. I'm not saying that's great. I'm not praising that. But it's not costing us more than the quantity of
work that had to be done would have cost us whether or not we had estimated correctly. That's how much work the field is demanding. So, we're we're not paying
more than we should have paid. We're just paying more than we thought we could get away with to pay for it. And that was the mistake on on the part of the people who did the estimating, but
it's not extra money. If it had been estimated correctly, it would have been the higher number. I hope that's so in terms of of pursuing an action against somebody's professional liability insurance which
is also you know I mean that's not a free thing for us to do either you know when that's a lot of money you pursue it but when the cost of litigation is relatively high to the amount that you'd
be seeking even if it was an actual mistake we we try not to you just be paying lawyers me or anybody else if it's not likely to result in a net to us. So, >> may I ask a question about that,
Attorney Geller? Um, is there a reason that the difference can't be taken out of their uh contractual fees? >> Well, they would have Well, I'm not here to confess that we don't have a case. I don't >> I'm not talking about litigation. And
I'm asking as far as the amount that they're supposed to be paying >> that would be contested that that's and and like I said the amount to my understanding and I'm not an engineer. If we were going to try to
dispute this we would need to retain other experts. They're expensive and we would have to put together a case and see what our chances are and what our cost would be and what our chance of gaining. But as I understand this and I'm not an engineer but the amount of
work that's being done is not extra work. We are paying what we should have paid for this quantity of work >> to be done. We just were not expecting
it to be this much because our our estimate and by the way the contractors who bid on this also were estimating what it would be and everybody was wrong. It was more work than was anticipated and what we're paying is not
extra money. We're paying what it should have cost. We're just >> okay >> surprised by that. Point of clarification, attorney Geller, point of clarification on that. Are you saying all of that to say >> that the scenario would not qualify for
one of these insurance uh uh claims? Is that why is that the >> Yes. >> Well, I mean, I mean, let me put it this way. It would qualify. Let me answer Let me answer the council person, ma'am. I'll be happy to listen, but let me answer the question that he asked. Um,
when I say yes, I mean to pursue it all the way to judgment successfully, there would be substantial defenses. Obviously, if the council said pursue this, you know, we're here to
follow those instructions, but we also need to advise you on the potential costs and the likelihood of success. And being surprised that it is more
expensive than we thought is not necessarily the same thing as being actually damaged by paying more than the amount of work that was necessary. And ma'am, you had a followup.
>> Yeah. And I think my question is directed to the uh the contractor. Oh, you're not the contractors, but the the uh project managers, right? um because you did say that it was an error on your part that it was a miscalculation and that's what we're discussing, right? That's how we got here. Regardless of
what the project cost, he made a calculation and it was a miscalculation and it was the information that was presented to us that we made our budget based off of. And we sat here last month for hours and hours and hours going over our budget to understand what we have
available as a village to spend on the things that we need. And so it's not a small thing to come back and say now, and I say that respectfully, right? I'm speaking on the behalf of the village. It's not a small thing to say, "Okay, now we need close to $200,000 more in a
village where $200,000 is a lot of money for our village. We're not Miami Shores. We're not Bay Harbor. We're not these other villages that have hundreds of millions of dollars in their budget. We're a very small village with a very small budget. And $200,000 is a significant portion of our annual budget. That's why we were here all that
time a month ago. So, with all due respect, you know, Attorney Geller, I understand what you're saying, but that's not really the issue. The issue is not are we paying the market rate for the job. The issue is that we were given a price and that price turned out to be incorrect based on the era of the the
professional who gave us that information. And so, it's their responsibility then to rightsize it. It's not for the village to take the responsibility to have to rightsize an era for somebody else that we're working with. And that's the bottom line. They need to be accountable. So to me, it's
not about an insurance claim. I would like to understand from you if the error was made on your part, why didn't you suggest or why are you are you open now to having that reduced the reduction of your fees? Let it come out of your portion, not we take on the ownus of a mistake, but you take responsibility for
your mistake. >> Uh as the construction manager, I'm not the design. Uh what attorney Gella said is correct. This was a quantities error. It's not a design error. You know uh
it's it was quantities. It it is basically what happened. So the project would have still cost uh what this change order was is adding to because so it's not a design error. If they if it's a design error that then it
becomes a errors and or omissions uh issue. >> Understood. But at this point, we're not talking about errors and emissions. We're talking about you absorbing the cost out of your your fees. >> And that's I think you you need to ask the attorney. He already answered that
question. >> No, he said that if he was to propose that that you would challenge it with a legal action. And so I'm asking you why would you challenge that if you made the mistake? >> So excuse me. So CAP Engineering has a separate contract with the village uh to
manage the um the construction of the project because it's when FDOT funds a project they don't allow the engineer of record to manage the construction contract. You typically we manage everything you know from beginning to end. Uh but that's how DOT works. So I
just provide limited u cons um engineering services when it came to when it comes to reviewing shop drawings which don't amount to a lot but in working with this change order we have we have for all intents and purpose we haven't invoiced the city um the village
for that anything related to the change order it's not being build by CIS. >> So you're not charging us the 167 then what are we talking about here? It's my time. Like I said, it's not it's not a lot, but it's not it's my time is not $167,000
worth. Not even I don't think his contract is60. >> No. >> Yeah. What what he's saying is he's the engineer of record who prepared the bid documents and but he's now providing his services. uh you know there are some
services the engineer of record because field changes which have to be verified with the so he's not charging uh them but the construction manager service is completely different uh like FDOT requires another consultant to to be the
construction manager so uh so we do the inspection and the administration of the contract to make sure the contractor is and negotiate the change order and and and that's what happened again this was quantities error and it's not a design error. I
mean I I looked at it too and say oh is there any claim against the you know I'm also a design consultant but and and no it's a it's a quantities uh error because it it would still cost this additional change order of mind.
Remember we got two bids. Even if you went if you had gone with a second one, you would be talking about a $800,000 uh contract here. >> Yeah. 800 plus. And with this contractor, it's about $729.
>> Understood. Well, I will uh conclude with at this point, at least for me, I would like to see more options discussed about how this can be rectified without us having to pay 167,000 on a change order. I understand that's one solution.
Open to seeing the feasibility of that, but I would like to see are there other alternatives? Can we change materials? Can, as the uh councilman said, if we went with cobblestone, would that make a difference? I don't know what the answers are, but I would like to see more discussion around potential
solutions that give an alternative to the change order that you presented tonight. Thank you. >> Thank you. Augustine Ramos, 60 Northwest 91st Street. Um, it's late, so I'll try to be
efficient. Um, the additional $167,000, that's on top of the $200,000 short that we're going to be from the taxes of whatever that building's called, the surprise from last month. Um, and we have another variable now
with a new village manager incoming that we don't know what they will make with the budget that was prepared with a current salary. We don't know if that'll be enough for the future salary. Um, so I very late last month after we approved
a budget uh because we had to uh you guys approved it with the commitment to have another meeting about the budget. Um, it's past 10. I know the budget, I believe, is on the agenda tonight. Uh, I
really think it would be a bad idea and not go over very well with those of us that are left here if, and I know I'm not the last one to talk about the roundabout, but um, if the uh, consideration could be given to setting
a firm date now in November after it was stipulated by you guys that it would be in October, having a meeting only for the budget so we can actually talk about it and the growing deficit in the budget budget that we now have that we didn't think that we had, which is now 200 from
the shortage in the tax revenue, $167,000 for additional costs of the roundabout, plus whatever may or may not come of a new village manager. All of those things need to be discussed, not at midnight, seemingly from the additional comments
that there will likely be about the roundabout. So again, I will ask very late. Can we please set a meeting only about the budget that is out of balance? And the only thing that is approved is that B budget that is out of balance. Uh and and the money is going to have to be
start well money is starting to do now. We're in the new year. We're 28 days into the new year or 27. I don't know what day it is. Anyway, please and thank you. Thank you. Adam Simon, 360 Northeast 85th. I feel like I'm in the movie War Dogs with you
guys. Like you under bid a project, came a little bit later, and said, "Whoops. It's going to cost $200,000 more. So, we're going to under bid, get the job, come back, say we made a clerical error, it's going to cost you right about what that first bid was
going to cost you." And then we're saying um that it would have cost us that anyway, but maybe the council wouldn't have voted for it if we were told it was going to cost $800,000 to put a roundabout that you all voted
for. Not you voted for it, but you could have stopped it. Okay? You could have said no. You didn't vote for it in 2019. Another council voted for it. You guys said, "Well, we didn't vote for it, so we're just going to jam it through. the taxpayers are going to pay and then oh
by the way it's $200,000 more. Do you have insurance to cover that? That's a direct question. Do you have insurance to cover that? You made you said >> we cover we have um Arizona missions insurance but like the attorney said
this is a quantity issue. >> It's an error. It's a it's it's it's a design issue. It's also it is but you can call it sp I've never been through it. >> It's a design issue. years in the firm, never been through this. So, >> it's fair enough. But, but when you say,
Mr. Geller that it may not be worth fighting it. I disagree with that because maybe it won't be because on the record you gentlemen said we made a mistake, but you're not willing to offer any
other solutions than to come to the taxpayers and the council and say, "Sorry, fork up another $200,000. Cover us, please. I don't think it's fair as a taxpayer. You wouldn't feel good about it either if
you were paying the taxes on it, I would assume. So, I believe that there should be offers of other solutions. And if there's not, we should either leave it the way it is. >> I know we're not going to get the grant
money, but we can sue you, okay? or offer other solutions other than sorry because you know like the gentleman before me said we had a $200,000
mistake. Not your fault that happened about another project last month. We got $170,000 mistake on this project. Who's to say that you guys don't come back and say, "Oh, you know what? we found something else. We need another hundred grand here. And we're all of a sudden we're up
to a million dollars. Who's to say? Who knows, you know? And I'm I'm angry at this council. >> Okay. Um because it sounds like you're
not listening to us and you are us. You're supposed to be us, right? So like you're we voted for you to be our soundboard to pass and vote on things that matter
to us, not what matter to you. You can't discard us and say, "Well, I'm a councilman and I know more than you, so I'm just going to say the way it has to be." That's not fair. And you know what? Maybe there are residents that don't show up. They say
like, "Well, only people that leave reviews for restaurants, you know, they're they're the they're the angry people. Everybody else isn't angry." But, you know, if those people don't choose to show up, and we we're the people that do, you have to listen to us. I mean, that's that's only right,
right? So, like, I think it's worth looking at a lawsuit. I mean, you guys openly said on the record, we made a mistake. And it is, make no mistake, it is a design issue. It is a design issue. You can call it whatever you want, but it is.
So that's what I have to say. Thank you very much. >> Thank you, [Applause] >> mayor. If I could quickly, >> mayor, just to make a quick comment. >> Yes. Um, so, uh,
I I agree with almost everything you said with the exception of I actually had the the thought as well of of, uh, of why this overage occurred, right? But just understand that they are not profiting. >> I don't think,
>> right? So, right, it's the contractor doing the job that is profiting from it, but >> yeah, they're not the biders. >> I just want to be extremely clear about that that they're not profiting from this. whoever. >> Yes. >> And then I agree with everything else he said, including the criticism of I
imagine myself. So, >> and then one other thing, just one other clarification. Um, I think what Attorney Geller is saying is that it it's it's easy to say, "Let's just sue them." But litigation is expensive. So, in a lot of arenas, not just here, there are a lot
of people, and I'm sure big retailers, I'm sure you've heard of someone slipping and falling and like, you know, they they pay it out. You think about whether or not the litigation is going to cost you more than you would pay if you did the change order. So, this is
the analysis, right? Um just just an insight, not saying where we should fall, not saying what's worthwhile or not, just saying when we look at the number of the change order, we look at how much it would cost to litigate this because there would be some sort of litigation um and then make a global
assessment on whether or not um our interest is better served with one course of action or the other. But also, we we're not going to do the back and forth because we have someone at the Well, you would have to wait. Let's let this young lady make her comments. >> Hold on. Another point.
>> Point of clarification. Once again, though, >> I don't think at this point we're talking about suing them. I think we're talking about filing an insurance claim. And I don't know that there's a is there a cost associated with filing an insurance claim? I I >> I believe so. >> Point of clarification on that. I
believe the discussion is can we file an insurance claim? >> I think there would be a cost, but attorney Geller can let us know. I I don't think his his contract contemplates like litigation or this type of >> litigation is extra. We try to avoid it.
I mean it would you know that would benefit our firm to have litigation but it wouldn't benefit the village. So we try to avoid it. There's some cost to it. Um if they happen by some chance, you know, we have to make an informed judgment to advise you. It's your
decision. We'll follow instructions. So I want to be clear on that. I'm not the decision maker. I'm just an advisor. You can decide, but it is our job to give you informed decisionmaking ability by telling you
what pros and cons are. I mean, yeah, if we filed a claim and some insurer said, "Oh, even though this is a quantity error," and they agreed that it's not a design error. Um, and they just said, "Well, no problem. We'll just pay
something that's much more than our firm even the the are insured even received for doing this work." um well yeah then it might not cost much but having done this for several decades usually they
dispute it and either it gets you nowhere um or you end up saying well we don't accept your denial and you litigate. That's usually where that goes in a highly disputed
matter. There's some cost to that, but if it goes into litigation, it's a lot greater cost. I'm sorry. >> And in addition, no, and I'm sorry to interrupt, but I I do want us to whenever we're thinking about these things to just think about like uh globally like the after effect of it,
right? So, it it is litigation cost as well as I think there is some sort of um requirement for the grant funds, the portion that is supposed to be grant funded. There is a requirement as to when we finish this up. So will that and
whatever timeline we is involved in kind of engaging if we decided to go this route um does that impact the grant funds all of those things. There's also an argument that hey maybe you can quantify this as all damages if you do decide to do some sort of active litigation but I also think
that there's a requirement for you to um mitigate some of your losses. So I don't I don't think that that's something we might be able to recover but I don't know. Additionally, the suggestion that we simply not finish the project. >> I mean, we're liable for having once you
start it, you have to leave it in a safe and acceptable manner if we were to simply abandon it. Um, there would be serious consequences to us. We would, >> especially with all those kids. That's an attractive nuisance. >> Yes, ma'am.
Alexandra Basa 120 Northwest 36 Street. Um I just wanted to say that I don't agree with Mr. Geller in the sense that this would be at the end of the day with what the project would have cost um in the sense that this was a a
matching grant. So we are picking up the tab not only for Miami Shores who just I think that for most of us is news that they were not part you know contributing in any way but just putting their name on it. Um but we're not getting part of
that you know that matching grant. So it's just us picking up the the entirety of the tab. So it does cost more. Thank you. Thank you. >> Velvet Connelly, 355 Northeast 87th Street. So, you guys have repeatedly
said that it's a quantities issue, which is a supply issue, right? >> Supplies. >> Supply. I don't know about >> Well, when you say quantities, then quantities of what? >> Yeah. Well, the the milling area and then the the supply of of asphalt, which
is tonnage, >> which comes from a supplier, right? You're getting the asphalt from a supplier. That's what I mean, right? So, if you have a supplier who's a vendor who's providing the asphalt from you, and again, that miscalculation was on your part, is there any reason why you can't get a vendor line of credit
through that supplier to be able to get the supplies that are necessary to complete the job? And you guys will pay that back over whatever terms that the vendor gives you. >> Okay. The asphalt comes from the contractor,
not not not the CI firm or the EO firm. It comes from the contractor. The contractor's original unit price for the asphalt was $2500 a ton. All right. Had we gone that had we had
we just said okay accept that accept that price it would have more than doubled the the cost of this job between the contract language and the negotiations with um between you know all all three of us you know the
contractor see and Cass um you know we looked at DOT's FDOT's historic uh current unit prices um to to start with the negotiations And I believe they came really close, if not close to to the
tonnage price um um for the for the change order because we weren't going to we weren't going to recommend a change order of $2,500 a ton. >> I mean, we weren't going to recommend a change order of $350 to to mill um that area. That that that was reduced as
well. Um again because we used you know we had a we had we had we had historical records from FDOT unit prices which are recent and that's what we used to negotiate with them and they and they and they concurred and that's what we came down to those we we drastically
reduced those unit prices to to come up with a better number. the the the quality of the asphel has to meet a standard. It's that's not my question. I'm asking specifically about the supplies being able to be
provided on a line of credit directly through the vendor, which happens all the time in business. You can get and not you, whatever, whether the contractor, any any company that's dealing with the vendor can get a vendor line of credit, meaning that the the vendor will provide the supplies on a
line of credit to allow the job to go forward. And then you guys can figure out on the back end who pays for those for that product over whatever term. If it's a net 30, net 90, net 120, whatever term that the that the vendor supplier gives to you, but the money doesn't have
to come from the village to move the job forward. Those supplies can be given on credit through the vendor. >> I don't think that's the way the contract's written and I don't think I can answer that. >> Okay. >> Sorry. Um, and the last thing I would
say is also back to the what was already suggested about Miami Shores also participating in this. I know for sure whether it's your company or not, you know, I'm very versed in business credit. So, I understand how vendor credit works. I understand that's how businesses do business with each other
all day long. So, that's not a foreign concept for anyone. And I'm sure within the city of the village of Alportal, Miami Dade County, they have vendor credit relationships. And so they definitely can be able to to set up some kind of a vendor line. That's one option
of how we can get the job going without the money directly coming from the council at least immediately. And also Miami Shores and whatever level of participation that they can that they can play is also a conversation to be
had as far as like what amount can they participate in you know giving something to this project. So um again I just don't think that the answer is we as the village of El Portal just write a check for for the
outstanding amount. I just don't see that as the answer. >> Thank you. >> Adam Simon 360 Northeast. I just wanted to clarify one thing. I'm not blaming y'all nor and I it's not supposed to be a cross-examination.
Um, I was just saying it sounds like we have to pay for it and there's no other choice because you have to finish a project by a certain time or you don't get the funding, but if you don't get the funding, then we have a bigger problem because then we're going to owe
more money. So, what I was saying, and obviously I know that I come from a family of attorneys, so I know that suing is very expensive and but I also think there's a precedent, right? Right? And we talk about precedent all the time, right? Like Elportal is not going
to be taken advantage of if you give us a contract. You have to honor that contract. You need to be insured if there are flaws in the contract. And there are oh by the ways, whoopsies, you know, um we're going to be protected. And so there's
it's you know, it's like defending ourselves. You know, it's like uh you know, you got and again, not you. I don't know who the people are. I'm not blaming you in particular. I'm just saying the situation. We'll just say somebody made an error, we have to bear the burden of the error. We have no
choice. Um, but we should sue because even if we lose, we should. I know you're smiling and you think it's funny. >> Okay. I I mean you you've you've you've been smirking the whole time and like >> I have enough experience to know that it
it what everything being proposed like suing and all it will not it it will not work it >> it it does well of course you're going to say >> and and because this is a relatively small project and >> it's small for you because you
know you there are so many different types of contracts but if you >> I don't want to argue with you that's not why I'm up here I'm just saying Like I feel like El Portal and the citizens are being taken advantage of by somebody and I feel like there's defense for
being taken advantage of and I feel like nobody's we're saying stuff but nobody's standing up for us and so we're having to pay $400,000 more >> for m 200 to you and 200 to someone else
for you know errors and mistakes. >> Not to you personally. I don't mean you guys. >> What? >> No. >> You first of all, you can't. The fact that a developer
managed to lower their tax bill is not a mistake on the part of the bill. >> I didn't say it was a mistake. I said we're forced to mistake. I said it was a mistake on their part. I said the fact that we have to pay an additional $400,000 that Hey, surprise surprise isn't fair.
I'm sorry. Like it's not fair. Like if you're presented something, life isn't fair, right? But if you're There you go. But if you're presented something and it's approved and then it's like, oh, it's going to cost you $400,000 more. There's somebody's got to be responsible for
>> So somebody pursued their rights uh to lower their tax bill. We may not like it, but it has nothing to do with >> So what about this? Let's let's go back to this situation then since fine 200. Let's call it $200,000. >> Let's call it what it is. >> Okay. You you you seem very adamant
about like not pursuing this. Like it's strange to me. >> No, sir. I said I would do it if that's what the council decides. We're happy to do it. We we take instruction. >> The council wants us to do it. We're happy to do it, but I'm also charged with trying
to reduce >> the legal bills. >> I don't know. I don't know if it would cost $167,000 to find out if if someone else is responsible, but maybe it would. But maybe it wouldn't. I don't know. I'm not going to keep going. And I just feel
like maybe we can stand up for ourselves a little bit. Wouldn't that be great? >> Thank you, Denise White, 173 Northwest 88th Street. We Y'all ain't tired? That's crazy. We should be tired. Number one, not whose
fault is it? The people who voted for the thing in the first place. That that's whose fault it is even though we didn't want it. Even though horse man knew nothing about it, and I know you said they did, but when I was in a teacher meeting the other day, it was a teacher workshop and the lady was there from Horse Man and she was administration and I was like, "Hey, how
y'all like that roundabout?" And she was like, "We didn't know nothing about that." I said, "You didn't know about that?" They said, "No, we didn't know nothing about that roundabout." Look at that. There's a roundabout. right now. The fact that if you're building your house, right, and it gets to a point where new material and more material is
needed, you got to buy it to finish it. They already approved it. You know, the people who we told not to approve it, they already approved it. And it got to be finished. Uh the fact that they need more, what y'all need more? Asphalt. That's what y'all saying? Asphalt? They need more asphalt. Then we got to give
them asphalt or else we gonna have that white dug up stuff that's still there. When I go walk my dog, I see it. It's all dug up and it's white. It's just gonna stay there white and it's not going to be okay. Not to mention that we got to move on. Yes, we were taken
advantage of when they voted for the thing that we didn't want. That's where we messed up because it got passed, right? But that's been happening a lot lately. Things get passed even though we don't want it. So, it's already here. We
got to go it. We got We We have to finish it. When you're building your house, sometimes they're going to need more wood, more shingles, more paint because something happened. That's what these guys, they got to do it right now. We could beat them up all night long. We
could cross question them in question them. Crossquest them. Really? I'm still pissed off that the damn thing even got passed in the first place from 2000 from from from 2017. What What is it? It's It's 20 It's
25. I think my goal got it in me that it's 2025. And in 2017, we took a we took a surveys and people wanted it, but nobody wanted it in 2025, but it's here. We got to pay for it. we got to pay for it. You know, all they gonna do is
raise, you know, go and tell people that that's wrong and, you know, give them violations and then, you know, go give us tickets in the street. We have to pay for it and that's why we didn't want it. You say that we need to be protected
right now. The people who passed it was our counsel. So, do we need to be protected from our council or from these people? Because these people they he he even said he's not making any money. It's the contractor making the money. Well, who gave the contractor the job? Who gave the Mr. Geller? Who gave the
contractor the job? >> They applied. They were screened. They was a recommendation. And then there was a vote to approve it. >> A vote. Who voted the the the contract? >> The vote came from the council for the low bidder. >> The council again. Dag, that's crazy. We
mad at the wrong people, booze. We mad at the wrong people. Regardless what happened, the fact that it got passed means that it's on the floor and it's happening. I know it's happening cuz like I said, every time I go down the street, I got to remember that I can't go down that street. I got to go around
the street. And I'm really annoyed and pissed off. When the people came to me and they say, "You go to the council meetings. Why is that there?" I said, "I don't know." They passed it. Even though we had a room full of people that said, "No, we don't want it." Now we mad at
who? I'm sorry. Thank you very much for taking all the banter that you got today. We really appreciate the fact that you stood there and took all of that. And I saw you. You was getting a little annoyed. Don't get annoyed. There's nothing that you can do. There's absolutely nothing can because our
council, like you said earlier before, passed it. Now we want to stick up for it. We couldn't stick up for it. They passed it. Thank you again for passing the roundabout. We appreciate you and we appreciate the fact that now we have
bigger deficits. We pray, oh, we're not supposed to miss government and and we pray that hopefully we can make it through this and that, you know, some monies will come in other than, you know, taxing us or putting the, you know, giving us
violations that will pay for the extra asphalt that you guys need for your project that we didn't want but got approved anyway. Yes. But to carry this on any longer, like I don't know about you, but I was in a budget meeting
lasted almost 12 1:00. I was drained out my soul. I'm in love with y'all, but we can't stay here and beat these people up no more over this roundabout we didn't want that's here anyway. The only thing we could do is wait for election time and
make changes so then we will stand up for ourselves. But right now, beating these people up to stand up for ourselves, that don't make any sense. And we got to go to work tomorrow. And I don't know if we've met if we just this, Mr. Mayor, is this just the one thing?
We got a lot of things on our agenda for tonight. And we just on this one thing forever. Never. Yeah. No, we going to let this go come election time. That's what we going to make and we going to stand up real nice. I appreciate if my council would then vote for the citizens because we just trying to get y'all to
listen to us just a little bit. My hair is so big I can't. >> Thank you. >> Uh, my name is George Alvarez. I live at 165 Northwest 88th Street. I'll try to be brief. Famous last words, right, guys?
um seems to be a lack of information. It seems to be a lack of asking for information and um what's done is done. But it really didn't have to be this
way. to echo what uh the last resident just said. Um, a lot of people came here to ask you to not vote for this roundabout. Um, I saw a bunch of
emails um from uh from a public records request uh between officials, well-meaning officials in in Elpertell Well, in various stakeholder organizations, some of them
left me with some real big big questions. Um, for example, we call it the Horus man safety roundabout. That is obfusation. Horseman did not initiate this. Had they
initiated a safety issue, it would have gone through Miami Dade public schools. Not through Alpertell, not through Miami Shores, not through the city of Miami. This roundabout is a block north of the boundary
where Horus man is. when we tried to get money from the county to do this and I've read these emails and what it really sounds like is we were trying to put a circular a circle in a square and not no pun
intended. We're trying to put a circular nail into a square hole. We were trying to find a way to make this roundabout happen so much. There is a traffic study. I I'm I'm
waiting to receive uh the traffic study, but um our city manager was was good enough to help. >> I'm sorry. We're at the 11 mark and our charter indicates that our meeting should be ending at 11:00 at night. If not, they need to do something in order for us to move forward.
>> Do I have a motion to extend? >> I move to extend for one hour. Second motion to He has to extend for a certain amount of time in case we reach that time. If he says extend for 10 minutes, then we end in 10 minutes in the middle of
conversation. So he has to extend up to a certain amount of time. If it if it takes 10 minutes, we can end in 10 minutes, but he has to extend up to a certain amount of time. Okay. Do we have a second for that motion? >> I second it. >> There was a second. Yeah.
>> So we have a motion. We have a second. All in favor say I. I. >> I. >> I. >> All post say nay. Hearing none. Continue. >> Thank you. Mayor Nickerson. >> The city manager was kind enough to help me with a a public records request and
steer me in the right way. Um in the right direction is what I meant to say. But um there's reference to a traffic study. I haven't seen it yet. I hope to receive that from either Miami Dade or Florida.
Um I uh what I did notice however was uh the traffic and engineering uh departments the the people who make all the choices all the decisions regarding public works projects involving
traffic flow in the county. They were solicited by us rightly so for money so that we could do this speed speeding mitigation in the area. Right. Right? We were looking for a way to do it, but according to them,
we did not meet their criteria. In other words, that street corner wasn't dangerous enough. They wouldn't even approve at the time. Maybe it's different now. Maybe it's been different for the last couple years. This goes back to, I believe, 2018, 2019. There
was a lot of these emails. Basically, they were saying that street corner wasn't dangerous enough. They wouldn't allow us to have four stop signs at that time. There's only two stop signs there. Now, uh m Mr. Mayor
has has spoken uh a thousand times. I know he's tired of it. Uh about getting speed humps on 91st, which is apparently or has been very difficult to do up until this time.
So, what did we do? Not you guys. I don't think you were on the council at the time. Well, may maybe Mr. Irban was on the council. I I don't >> I think I just joined and uh >> or maybe Nickerson was in a different capacity. But >> anyway, so what did we do?
We got a no from Miami Shores. We got a no from Miami Dade. So, we went to the state of Florida to get any matching grant that could satisfy the desire for speed mitigation. And the
best thing we could come up with was a very, very expensive roundabout. We didn't need it. Northwest Second Avenue did not meet the criteria. Horus man, if they felt they needed it, would have gone a different route
through their channels. Miami date public schools. They have a budget. I believe attorney Geller probably familiar with that. So we went about this a very odd way. We
were a solution seeking a problem. Now when I walk in the mornings, I usually try to avoid going north. Now I'll go south on Northwest Second Avenue. I don't see a lot of speeding. I've never seen a lot of speeding during the
school hours, during the hours when students are present. I've never seen any speeding at night. Yeah, I hear it too sometimes. So, we obviously needed to do something. The county recommended that we put have
blinkers on. Blinkers that show people their speed. They would have paid for that. We didn't go for that. We wanted to go for a different route. Well, we got it. Possession being 9/10en of the law. We
are now in 9/10 possession of a roundabout. So, two things. Number one, in the future, we need to go a little further vetting what people tell us. Whether it's the
Bington brothers, there should We should have had a contract. I know I I know Mayor Nickerson's been pulling his hair out. We should have had a contract that said or that disincentivized
them building anything that was known as workforce housing, not because of the people, but because of the parking, the infrastructure, the drain on resources that we would have. So, in a way, we're lucky that the
kavista turned into live local because if they had started out as live local, their parking needs would would only be nominal at the bottom of that building. Where we are unlucky is it's going to make it a lot easier to build somebody for somebody to build live local on
Northeast 2nd Avenue or maybe Northwest Second Avenue. Who knows? So, that's what we need to do. And I I I just I can't understand, you know, why it's why it's not something that we regularly
secondguess and third guess and check and check again and again. Why can't we get this right? It is not an excuse that there was a prior mayor and an interimm city manager with no city attorney signing a deal with the Bington
brothers. That's not an excuse. That's putting a lot of faith in people. >> I'm sorry. I don't mean to interrupt. Mayor, you have five items. You still have this would be the sixth item and it needs to be done before midnight. >> I do agree. I do think we need to implement that three minutes. Not
because I don't want to hear you. Just if we could make it concise, then we have a better chance of hearing everyone and getting through all the remaining. >> I'll try to be as concise as everybody else was. >> Yeah. No. And and I hate to do this to you. I hate to do this because that's what that's what we've been doing, but this isn't the correct way to do it to
ensure that everyone has an opportunity. >> I agree. This is not the correct way to do things. We wouldn't have to do this if we were more honest and we actually deconstructed the agendas that were out there towards putting up a rotunda that
Horus man doesn't want. That's not going to have a positive impact on our community and is now going to cost us $729,000. And by the way, I've never known a public works project that doesn't get more expensive. So, we may not be done
with this. So, I'm gonna leave it there and I appreciate your indulgence in time. >> Thank you so much. I appreciate it. And I'll just do the timing. Uh, I'll I think we have a clock, but >> do we have the clock? >> I don't have >> It's not on. So, I'll do the the timing and I'll give everyone an alert when
it's 25 seconds left. Okay. Just so we can at least get to what I think is a really important issue that we have to discuss as well. All of them are important, but I definitely want to get to H5. Ederson uh contemplates there being some
sort of like back and forth. Um so I I think >> there should be. >> Yeah, I I think so. So >> So anybody if if anybody wants to talk to me more about what I what I believe I read in some of those emails. Like I said, I'm awaiting the actual study itself. Happy to do so. We can do it
certainly do it offline because now and and I appreciate you guys for emphasizing this. Now we need to move forward and and fix the situation as best we can while keeping any further expenses to be minimal. So to that end,
I'd like to ask the gentlemen and I will I'll I'll wait for my I'll I'll hang up and I'll wait for my answer as they say on radio. What is the way what is the quickest and cheapest way out of this thing? number one. And
number two, are the long Miami Dade public school buses able to go through the the the the traffic circle? So, those are two questions. I know I said one. >> No, that's okay. >> Thank you. Thank you again for your
indulge. >> Thank you so much. Again, we the cheapest way was to renegotiate the unit prices that the original contract had and we did and we we scaled those unit prices quite considerably to
make to make it cheap. I mean asphalt is is asphalt and then milling milling is just >> sorry. So milling is just you know scraping off the existing asphalt and
that's again that's was also a renegotiated unit price um from the original price of of the contract. Um so we we got better unit prices for that work that needed to be done. >> And a question about the school buses
>> and the school buses. Yes. So part of the review period uh process was uh the county asked us to to show what we call um auto turns for large vehicles on on on a drawing to show how it it'll a bus a
school bus or a large um trash truck whatever or first responder vehicle will would need to go through there. Um, and we had to demonstrate that we had the room for that for those vehicles to to get through there.
>> Thank you. I appreciate that. Does anyone from the council have uh any sort of discussion about this one? >> I don't think we're going anywhere. I'd like to motion to move this to a special meeting on next Tuesday so we don't waste time. And let's also ask for on that meeting on Tuesday for any
insurance information and that they can get three more quotes on cobblestone. This way we don't have to keep talking about today and we can figure it out on Tuesday when we have all the information that we need. >> There's a motion um on the table or well hold on before we make the motion uh
council or you make the motion council person winters but we still have public comment. Correct. >> Well I hope that your motion is going to be what I'm going to request which is to postpone the budget. um you know
discussion to another meeting. It was my understanding that that was going to be conducted in a separate meeting not at 11 p.m. when everybody's gone after a planning and sonic meeting and everybody's freezing and tired. So I
would urge you like everybody here has been talking about money because it is important to us. It everybody is really concerned. That's why we stayed until midnight last time and that's why we keep coming. So it is something that matters and I think it should be you
know allocated the the proper time. Thank you. >> Thank you. We have a motion. >> We do have a Were you stand for a particular reason? Okay. >> Yeah. We So the motion was counc >> a special meeting next Tuesday to go
over the same exact agenda item. I'd like to get any information from the insurance that everyone keeps talking about for the errors and rememies and also receive three cobblestone quotes so if we have to tear up a road
back down after we get septic sewer pay for the road twice. >> Okay. So I want three quotes for doing the rest of the roundabout with cobblestone so we don't have to pay for two different roads when we go from septic to sewer. And I'd also like to
find out the insurance information by next uh Tuesday so we can see if the insurance is even viable and if it will cover it by reading through the actual contract. >> Okay. Did everybody hear and understand the motion? >> Yes. >> All right. So there's a motion on the
table. Is there a second for that motion for a meeting next Tuesday um for that information? >> I would I would I don't know if it's reasonable to achieve three quotes for cobblestone by next Tuesday.
I would amend the motion to simply move this item to next Tuesday to review insurance options and other any other viable options to mitigate the village having to pay out of pocket
for this. >> All right. So, we have an amendment to the motion. Um, Council Person Winters, do you accept the amendment or >> Yes. >> Okay. So, we have a amendment to the motion. The amendment to the motion is accepted. Um, are there any other further questions or comments?
>> All right. Madam Cler, can I have a roll call? >> Roll call. Council person Winters. >> Yes. >> Council person Lightoot Ward. >> What? >> Okay. Council personal. >> Yes. >> Vice Mayor Martin? >> No. >> Mayor Nickerson?
Yes. >> Motion passes three to no four to one. >> All right. Thank you. We appreciate that. Um Miss Edelman is not here. Okay. I was going to answer some questions, but I think the individuals aren't here. All right. Uh let's go to the agenda item.
Um first agenda item. This is H1. Um, so just really quickly, this is something that's going to be an ongoing theme, but it's something that we're going to have to continue to monitor at the state level, but this kind of goes to Miss Bosa's questions that she's been asking about the Plurerbia um, and the code
amendments and things like that. So, at the state level, thank you guys. You guys take care. Have a good night. at the state level. Um, Senate Bill 180 has basically uh in layman's terms basically kind of put
like a halt or moratorum on introducing and adding to your code new code adjustments. So therefore, essentially what's in our books is in our books and
to change and adjust those things right now. The state of Florida is holding that up right now. To make a long story short, now this is an ongoing thing. Um so we're going to we expect to see um
you know in the coming weeks and months we expect to see certain leeways and gives in this. But for right now, everything when it comes to code, we can't make any adjustments and add them to our code. You guys understand when we add something to the code is through an
um ordinance. We can no longer do that right now. The state of Florida, contact Governor DeSantis, contact your state legislature. Um they put a hold on that and that's Senate Bill 180. Um you can speak to me offline about maybe some
ideas that I have to kind of get around that. I don't want to say it on the record because we're dealing with the state. Um, but officially we can't add anything to our code or adjust our code right now. And that's from the state of Florida. That's Senate Bill 180. Okay.
And it's for all there's a lot to it, but one of the portions is for all uh municipalities that um which which seems like it doesn't even have any relation, but it's for all municipalities that may possibly fall into any type of like hurricane path. That's the way they
described it. I think that was their way of allowing certain municipalities that maybe are favorable to them out of it. But um that's what it is and that's where we stand. But talk to me offline, contact me and I have ideas um in ways.
>> Mayor I'd like to also add Yes. um met with the um municipal attorneys uh at a lunchon I guess about two weeks ago and um there is a lawsuit um being brought by 22 municipalities against the state or you know they need some kind of legal
direction. So I did meet with uh Senator Chevron Jones who represents our district um and asked if he had any indication on what is happening in Tallahassee this uh coming legislative session which is going to start in January. He said right now they don't know it's there's a lot of push back on
it because it is so restrictive. Um you know it restricts us from making any land use regulation or even as the mayor said amending the code here which you know we've been working so hard on and and we're very close but um uh he
doesn't have any any information to share with us now. So that's something we'll we will well I'm sure we will all be monitoring uh come January. And um I did forward those recommendations because you know we worked hard and we had those um workshops forwarded those
uh recommendations that were made um to our village attorney just to see if any of any of these things could could maybe be utilized. But as it turns out we we're not to move forward until there's more direction. So I'm sorry it's not good news. But
>> do we do we have any intention of joining that lawsuit? Is is it a class action lawsuit among the 22 or is it 22 individual lawsuits? >> No. >> Neither. >> Neither. >> So, >> it's it's a lawsuit. It would it would
it would I believe they're charging money for people to join. It's not free. They're asking for participation and we don't have a budget for it. >> Okay. So, there is an active lawsuit. It's not just a threats. It's not class action. However, in order to join there is uh fees.
>> Okay. So, just a reminder, the single largest Medicare fraudster in US history is Senator Rick Scott. All right. Uh Marco Rubio is white. All right. Ronda Santis is a white supremacist. I
warned everybody for several months now. You have someone in Tallahassee who used imminent domain to take land from this county and build a torture prison where there are now more than a thousand individuals missing. gone. Desa.
So, understand this. Understand this. I also said at several meetings that Ronda Santis is taking home rule from all municipalities in Florida. That's what this is. They've been chipping away at it, but
they're taking a chainsaw to it now. So, We've decided to light a fire under the council's rear ends. I don't disagree wholeheartedly with the criticism, even the criticism directed at myself.
However, all of these discussions are pointless on the path that we're on. If things continue as they are, understand that home rule is gone. There's no home rule any longer. This is
insanity what this is. So push back. Are you kidding? 22 municipalities. There's going to be a brain drain from Florida. You're going to be left with crypto bros in Miami and that's about it. There's nothing healthy about anything
that's happening right now from the administrative level. Fish rot from the head. You guys have directed appropriately your animosity towards the council for the same purpose of understanding that
fish rot from the head. So understand that anyone in your life that you know that still supports the Republican party in the United States of America, there is no Republican party. There's only Trumpists. That's it. You will
swear allegiance to Trump just the way Dantis has. Dantis does not think for himself. He is told what to do. >> We need to understand that these people are taking home rule
from us. They are taking home rule from us. It is disappearing. Just like the thousand people from the torture prison in Miami Dade County, a few miles from where we're standing right now. Guys, only fools think that we're not in a
civil war right now. If you think it hasn't started yet, I promise you, your head is all the way up your ass. Um, does everybody understand what's going on with Senate Bill 180? You guys understand? Everybody's good about that, more or less.
>> We can talk more offline. I mean, I explain I kind of explained what it was about. I don't um I mean, it's a Senate bill. I mean, the bills are the legislative bills. You guys, if you download them and look at them, they're very lengthy. um very like intricate but in layman's
terms it essentially says right now that the states put a moratorum on changes and adjustments to your code or new codes um entered into your into your municipality if you live in a hurricane
pathway zone which we do in all of Miami date county so it affects every municipality right now um if you heard the manager said earlier that how many municipalities are already have already sued, right? >> Or they're they're they're about to start their lawsuits. So, it's something
that's real. Otherwise, these municipalities wouldn't have started lawsuits. Um it's just something that like I said, I believe that there I found ways around it. You have to talk to me about that offline. Okay.
Um the next thing, Madame Vice Mayor, uh H2 and H3. >> Yes, H2. I have H2 and H3 and both of them are going to be really quick. The first one is just uh for us to um put our heads together as to the frequency
of the charter officer evaluations. My proposal would be uh to do two evaluations a year. Uh one in April, one in October as soon as we're done with uh the budget cycle. Um, and I will be
bringing forth that item on the next agenda. However, I hate to bring things forth without at least proposing it to the council first, hearing if anybody has any issues or suggestions to refine it or make it better. But that's the thought. if we are to come up with a set
schedule by with which we evaluate the village manager, the village attorney and the village clerk uh in April and October would be my suggestion. So if everyone's okay with that um or doesn't have any comments on that, that's what
you'll see on the next agenda. And if you have issues with it uh at that agenda, that's when you can also tell me no, yay, um or the like. But that's a thought. H3 is adding the designation of whom is the sponsoring council person or
charter officer on each item. Uh why do I think this will be helpful? Because once you receive that agenda, you'll know exactly who to contact if you have uh an issue, questions or concerns. Sometimes our meetings are a little bit long because um maybe this is the first
time that you're really getting the information on what this is or what the impact of this item is. If you have that designating council person or charter officer designation, it's a beline right to that person. You can reach them via
email or talk to the uh the city manager if it's their item to really get down in the weeds as to what this thing is. So, yes, you can still come to the council meeting and ask the questions, but you're asking the questions also with that supplemental knowledge that you've been able to acquire. Um, so I think
that this is a great thing for clarity on the agenda, which is something that I know we've discussed uh in depth. So that's another item that will be coming forth on the next agenda. I don't really think we need to discuss any of them now unless there's a burning desire uh
because it will appear on the agenda and we can discuss it at the next council meeting. >> All right, it's going to be on next agenda, you guys. Um, is there anything any questions or comments about it though? I would just say that uh sounds like a reasonable
plan and uh as far as it was outlined by council person Martin uh sounds like a reasonable starting point to um to to get things going that way. >> Mayor, um the agenda items for E 1 through 7, anything we need to do with
that? >> No, we're good, madam. >> Okay, >> counc. All right. So, we we have those down and madam vice mayor on the record um um I'll say that I'll uh I'll allow those on the on the next agenda. So,
>> next is uh H4 um from the council. Any suggestions? We heard a couple of suggestions from the members of the public about when to do this, about possibly doing it another time. Um, well, I was on board with uh next
Tuesday as a as a sole item, but uh next Tuesday seems to be potentially occupied at this point. So, uh uh you know, how do we do this without burning out the residents? I mean, the next day is Wednesday. Can we
do it next Wednesday? But um this needs to happen soon. I am definitely in favor of making this a sole item uh at a reasonable time so that as many residents as possible um are able uh to attend. Um I don't know if I'm the one
who can name that calendar date, but um I was set on next Tuesday. Now I'm not sure. >> I'm okay with the idea of putting it next Tuesday as well. But there are two things I think um we should consider.
Uh, one is that with all of our deficits and all the different uh, losses of income we're seeing right now that the CFO reproposes a new budget that or an amended budget. Let's sorry, amended
budget that might be able to adjust some of these uh, losses so that we can maybe get around them and survive this year. Uh, the second thing I'd like to probably consider on Tuesday would be a forensic audit of the village and find
out where a lot of the money's been going and why it's been going and how it's been going. So, these are things we can talk about on Tuesday. >> All right. Thank you. You you okay? Uh, Council President, >> is that it?
>> All right. Um, you guys, we have a few suggestions. Uh, Attorney Geller, is there anything that you want to say about the budget and just the procedures about bringing the budget? >> You're you're permitted to do a budget amendment. Um, I mean, you don't adopt
an entirely new budget, you know, if you have you have a budget, what you're allowed to do is to amend it. So, if there are amendments to it, you you can bring those and they're adopted in the same fashion that your
budget was adopted. Um, you know, they have to be specific and of course they they have to be funded in some fashion. You can't, you know, create dollars. You have to if you're spending more, you have to say how you're paying for it. If
you're spending less on something, then you simply designate where the money that you're saving on something is going to be put, whether it's to a different item in the budget or whether it just goes into your fund balance. So, can we
can we get input from the CFO on a reasonable timeline that he would need to present us with such an amended budget or if he was prepared to discuss an amended budget? >> Amendments to the budget. >> Amendments to the budget. Forgive me. amendments to the budget
just to understand if he was already prepared with numbers for us tonight or what time what good uh good evening everyone Harry Tenfeld CFO um from what I'm hearing and in reviewing the last meeting and today there's only two adjustments that need to be made um the
adjustment to the CIT actually only one adjustment to the C cit the adjustment for the um for the revenue shortfall was actually I'm sorry revenue shortfall fall is already was you guys already removed the revenue shortfall from the kabista adjustment at
the uh budget hearing. So there's no so that's that's been already you guys already approved that part >> but the only discussion on that was that I mean essentially it's by default coming out of the surplus or projected surplus forgive me um but but there was
discussion of you know uh of of preserving the projected surplus and taking from line items um uh either individually or across the board as like a flat you know 6% % reduction on all
line items. So, you know, we that decision regarding the shortfall from Cavista uh was a placeholder uh knowing that we were going to have to figure out where to distribute those
losses throughout the entire budget. Is that correct? >> Well, um not sure. I wasn't really here. I wasn't here for the last meeting. So, what I could tell you is the budget was a collaborative effort. and all department heads. Um what was presented to you is
our best guess for the upcoming fiscal year. Um we can go my thought I was on the understanding that today was the day that we were going to go line item by light item which is I guess what the will of the commission. >> It was the goal. >> Um again I don't see it. So but if you
guys want to go through it I'll be more than happy to go through it take your recommendations. >> Do you need any time beyond 7 to 10 days to be >> I can have it for you tomorrow. Again, the only adjustment that I'm making today that I've everything that I've heard so far is the adjustment for the CIT fund with the additional change
order. Okay. >> Outside of that, there's nothing else that needs to be changed at the moment. >> Very good. Thank you. My next question is actually for the clerk. Um how much time do you need to notice such a meeting >> for the meeting that we're having Tuesday? >> No. for assuming that we would um
assuming that we would propose another meeting at a later date for this item H4 budget amendment review discussion to apply amendments to the budget. How much time would you need to notice that meeting? >> Sorry to bother you. I He's leaving and
I want to ask him questions. He ran away. It it depends on the date, but keep in mind that we're having a meeting next Tuesday and two weeks later or three weeks later we're having our a council meeting again and then like three weeks later. >> But I'm just saying just like a random meeting. >> I'm saying for this item to be its own
meeting. How much time do you need to notice that meeting? >> I would need at least three days. >> At least three days. Okay. >> At least three days minimum. >> Three business days. >> Three business days. >> Tomorrow counting is day one. >> Tomorrow. >> Okay.
This will be quick. Um, >> you didn't answer a question by Mr. Erb when you said you weren't here for the last meeting and I don't understand as CFO and CFO of the budget, you didn't watch the last last budget meeting that was available online. >> I did watch the last budget hearing. I'm
going to keep my comments to myself. What transpired at that last last meeting? I don't think it's conducive or productive to have start that conversation now. >> Okay. But when you didn't answer his question, you said you weren't at the meeting, indicating that you did not have knowledge of what was going on.
>> No, that's not what I said. >> Okay. Are there any other um questions or comments or suggestions about the uh the day that we should have the budget amendment review discussion? Uh before you say that, before you go on, um I do want to put on the record because I feel it's needed to be said that the budget
hearing date was scheduled in June of this past year. And when the date was determined, it was full well known by the people who decided to propose that date, that budget hearing date, that I was not going to be in attendance. Um it is a Jewish holiday and probably the
most important Jewish holiday of the of the year. Um when I was hired in 2021, it came with two requests. one, I don't work on Jewish holidays and I take off two weeks in April for the Passover and that was agreed upon when I started in 2021 and that's just who I am and that's
what I believe in and that those two things will never change. Thank you. >> Any suggestions about the date you guys? What do you want to do? >> I think we're okay I think on Tuesday because we might have to schedule another one. But I don't think we are
okay on Tuesday because uh because uh I I agree with the resident sentiment that this should be a standalone meeting with no other meetings that same day or uh a meeting prior. And we already have uh
decided to revisit the uh $167,000 overage next Tuesday, which clearly is going to take some time to sus out. And so I don't believe that next Tuesday will function at all for a budget discussion based on what is already proposed on the calendar for next
Tuesday. I would propose next Wednesday except then we're burning out the residents by asking them to come to a second 5-h hour meeting the very next day and I don't know that that's fair to the residents. So you know I would give it at least 48 hours between those two meetings. Uh there is a massive urgency
to both of these items but the budget specifically. And so I would be very concerned to move it very much beyond uh next week at all. Uh however, it needs to be in in a time and space where it is
the most accessibly conducive time and space for as many residents as possible to have that time and come so we can have a budget that we could be proud of. I don't see I think we just need to have some discussions. We can arrive at a budget we can be proud of. I don't know
that it's a it's it's a survival instance uh for next year, but there is going to we need to we need to have space and time for a a sixh hour budget meeting. And I it will not work next Tuesday.
>> November 11th is what day? >> We're not having >> Veterans Day. That's why we're not having our meeting on November 11th. That would be the date that we would have the meeting. Yes. >> But more importantly, um the village manager selection or the vinnish manager,
she's not going to be here. Her last day is >> Monday. So I think that supersedes anything right now. Just saying. We got to agreed. >> Who? Okay. So in the event that uh Mayor
Nickerson uh you know, uh, goes on a vacation, we have Vice Mayor Martin to facilitate those responsibilities. Who do we have to facilitate the manager's responsibilities and the manager's absence? >> Um, in the charter,
>> that's the problem. >> In the charter, you guys, we do. It's okay. The world's not the world's not going to fall apart. In the charter, it states One second. Village manager council should move that the council
expresses fully. One second. One second you guys. We have in the event that the village manager is absent from the village council, disabled or removed, the council may um
appoint an officer of the village to perform the duties of the manager. We have two chartered officers. That is the village clerk. Those are three chartered officer positions. The village manager, the village clerk, and the village attorney. So, in the absence or if
they're disabled or if they're no longer available. Um, this is section 3 3.04 in the charter. In the event the manager is absent, uh, disabled or no longer available, the council may appoint an officer of the village to perform the
duties of the village manager until the council makes further decisions. Would we be able to make such a motion and appoint the attorney, for example, at the head of the budget meeting to act in that capacity? Is that an option?
>> Yeah. Well, we can we can we can do that tonight. Um, essentially, we can say at the end of the village manager because if if if the item is not on the agenda, then you can't vote on it. >> Okay? But this item is item H5, village manager procedure and protocol. And you
the procedure could fall within that. >> So we could make the motion tonight for the purposes of H5 budget meeting >> that why Yeah. Explain explain it to me. >> You don't need an interim manager for the budget meeting. Yeah. You need an
interim manager starting Tuesday morning to execute all of the work of the village because otherwise there's nobody to do it and there's nobody in charge of the other staff you have and you know
with all due respect in that I'm not even a full-time employee of the village. I'm a contract employee. You you either can appoint your clerk or I believe you would be just as you could
name a new manager, you could name someone as an interim manager, but you need to have some opportunity to at least talk about how you're going to do that. So I for the moment I don't know that you
>> have another choice besides your clerk until you can at least decide >> on when and how you're going to appoint an interim manager. >> That answers my question and so I clarify the charter though he didn't he misqued it earlier we should like before
we keep going further into this rabbit hole. It says in the event the manager is temporarily absent from the village or disabled doesn't say permanently absent. So it's a so what it says on section 3.04 absence or disability of village manager. In the event the manager is temporarily absent from the
village or disabled the council may be resol may by resolution appoint an officer of the village to perform the duties of the manager until she returns or he returns. >> She would be temporarily because nobody's staying with the job. That's why it's called inter room. >> But it's it's not it's a permanent
leave. She's not temporarily leaving coming back. But it would be temporarily open because you guys would be assigning an inter room. Somebody's going to fill that position >> under any >> and the only one who can interpret the law would actually be the attorney and that's part of it. >> Under any set of circumstances,
you are required to appoint three positions. They have to be filled basically at all times. Someone has to be in those positions and that's your obligation as a village
council. So you have to appoint between now and Monday at 5:00 p.m. possibly now. It's on the agenda but no later than Monday close of business. You must appoint someone to carry out the
duties of village manager until such time as you make a quote permanent decision. In a sense, every manager, every clerk, and every attorney is always an interim. So >> because you always retain the right to
terminate them. What I'm saying is in light of the fact that the next item is the village manager procedure and protocol, we should go ahead with scheduling the budget meeting understanding that in the next 19 minutes, we're going to hammer
out a plan for having a solution to that problem that would be in place by the time that budget meeting takes place. So, I feel that we can be confident to go ahead and schedule this budget meeting. You might alternatively
want to at least figure out what you're doing and who's going to be sitting there and for how long you're appointing them before you schedule your budget meeting. But that's >> it's not mandatory, but you have >> I move to table I move to table this
item until the immediacy following item H5. >> We have a motion. Do we have a second? >> I'm not understanding the motion. I'm I'm leapfrogging H4 over H5. Let's talk about H5, hammer out this thing, and
then let's schedule the meeting as we revisit H4. I would make a motion to table H4 until we've finished with H5. >> So moved. >> So do So we have a motion by uh Council Person and we have a second by Vice Mayor Martin. >> Yes.
>> Okay. Uh madam clerk, can I have a roll call on that? >> Roll call. Council person Winters. >> Yes. >> Council person life foot. Council Personal. >> Yes. >> Vice Mayor Martin. >> Yes. >> Mayor Nickerson, >> yes. Motion passes five and none. >> All right. So, let's drop down to the the procedure and protocol. Um, Madam
Clerk, you want to fill us in on kind of like what the process has been so far? >> Um, so for now, the position has been open because we have to be proactive due to the fact that we hadn't had a meeting since she gave her resignation. Um, the position has been open. We have been
receiving a lot of um résumés. I have looked at some of the résumés. We've received over 150 résumés. Um out of those 150 résumés that meet the qualifications for the village manager positions are very
minimum. Um, a lot of them are like either a manager for a fitness, a manager for the Marriott, >> non-governmental, >> non-govern Yeah. And some even some have
touched government, but it's a park manager. I know that to be sitting in that position, somebody who comes as a park manager, nothing to say about a park manager, but good things because I've worked with them before. It's not the same. It's not the same quality. It's not the same. You have to oversee a lot of departments and you have to know
a lot of compliance, a lot of laws that maybe at the level of a park manager you do not see. >> Can I ask, do we have any candidates that have served as either assistant city manager or city manager in other municipalities? And if so, how many? >> Yes, we do. We have two as of now.
>> Okay. >> All right. So, um, >> with this item being scheduled for tonight and the resumes being in, uh, at least the ones that have come in so far in the clerk's possession, uh, when's the closing date on the, um,
>> so the closing date is this Friday. >> Okay. >> That's why they were >> So, that's why we're not being presented tonight because we're waiting for all Okay. >> And I also need a directive from you guys. >> We're looking at an executive meeting on Saturday. Uh, I mean, how do we do this? You can you can simply appoint your
clerk to serve until you have a chance to look at the resumes, have a meeting, discuss it, make a decision. It it is with deference to the importance of the budget. Um,
>> it's kind of important to decide who's gonna, you know, I mean, you could go to the budget meeting with your interim manager and if the interim continues to be the clerk, you can do that or you can schedule a meeting and pick. It depends
how many qualified resumeés you have to choose from. But at some point you need to have a meeting where you're going to review the resumes of people who meet the minimum qualifications. >> That's why I was mentioning an
executive. Is that what we're looking at is having an executive session here where we come in. Okay. >> Can't have an executive session. >> It's got to be open to the public. >> Yes. >> Okay. Okay. So, uh I mean is same timeline three-day uh requirement to notice the public? Yes. And then would
that mean that you would have to uh digitize if they're not already all the resumes in a zip file for the residents to >> I haven't done that because I'm waiting for the directive of the council because obviously this person will be working under you and you guys have to give me
the directive of what is it exactly you would like me to do. >> Question for attorney Geller then. >> Okay. >> Attorney Geller. Yes. >> Uh uh so uh are the are the are the résumés of anybody wishing to apply for
the manager's position are as we just do the resumes also need to be disseminated to the public the way that they would be disseminated to us? >> No. >> No. Okay. >> They are public records. >> I want to get everything on the record. >> They are available >> upon request. Okay. So if anyone wants
>> We're talking Monday night then, right? We should schedule this thing. I move sir. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> You you may do that. >> Yeah. >> You do not have to do that. >> Well, >> you have two options. You can either schedule a meeting after the resumes are
in, but it might be a good idea to have the clerk when it closes send all of the qualified resumeés to you for you to review before you have the meeting. If you were to name the clerk as your
interim attorney, you could put that off till next week or another week. You can you can function as long as you designate someone as the interim manager. And if that's your clerk who's already here, then you have a week if
you want to take a week to do that. I only suggested you can do it either way. As the manager says, you could even have a meeting where you pick an interim manager or a permanent manager first and then have your budget meeting. But that
goes against what you said because if you have a lot of debate over that, which it's hard to think you wouldn't. Um, then you won't have the time that you five hours that you've posited you want to discuss the budget if that's
what you need. But what you need to do is to designate someone as an interim manager and either meet like immediately >> or if you designate your clerk or
someone else as your interim manager. But that's an easy choice. Then you have a week or so that you can come back and forget. >> Very good. For the meeting already proposed for Tuesday regarding the $167,000 overhead, is the village manager
required to be part of that meeting? >> It's not the focus on the meeting is misplaced. You must have starting Tuesday morning really I mean starting
actually you know 12:01 a.m. If there was a crisis Tuesday morning, you must have someone that you have designated to carry out the responsibilities of village manager under the charter.
There cannot be no one with that responsibility at any time any more than you can have no attorney or no clerk. >> Okay. Please, Attorney Geller, you by your own admission earlier, you must have every single seat filled at one
time. >> It's not my admission. It was my statement. >> Well, this means if we give the clerk, the manager job interim, then the clerk job needs to be filled by someone else too. >> No, sir. >> No, it happens all the time. If you learn if you learn through government and municipalities and you look at other
meetings, that is the person. Trust me. Trust me. I want to find somebody. But like yesterday, >> can I say something? I I hate to do this to you, Madame Clerk, because I do understand um it's difficult to hold all of the seats here because you're doing
so much, right? We need a city manager. We need someone quickly. However, in that gap, we also need someone to hold down the fort to make sure that nothing slips through the cracks. So, in this situation, I'd like to finish. In this
situation, the city clerk is the other highest ranking employee that is here on site dayto-day. I think it would make most sense to designate her as the interim manager so that we don't have a
situation where we are managerless. And then I also think we need to expedite that search um and prioritize the folks who have previous municipal experience. So in that vein, I would love to make a motion to appoint the city clerk as or
the village clerk as the interim village manager until such time that we are able to find a permanent city ma village manager. >> I'm interested in seconding that. However, I have two quick questions. One for the clerk. Are you prepared, ready,
and able to do that in your own estimation of yourself? I am committed to helping the village move forward. >> I'm talking about in terms of >> mentally. >> I'm talking about in terms of knowledge and understanding what your responsibilities would be in that instant.
>> I'm just placeholding. I am so confident that you guys are going to find by the next meeting with the I am extremely confident in you guys. Trust me. >> My second question is would it be appropriate or inappropriate if the does the mayor have the capacity to fill that role? >> He's not a strong mayor. It happens in
municipalities all the time. where the clerk sits in because it's the person who actually works the closest. I trust me. >> Madam clerk, have you have you served as this placeholder? >> I can be a placeholder. >> Have you done it before? >> No, but I've worked close enough where I
know and I am extremely confident that by next Tuesday, you guys are going to do amazing picking a next city manager. I am so confident. I am beyond confident. >> And we're saying that it's not that it's not advised. is that it's not possible because it's not a strong mayor.
>> Correct. It's not a strong mayor because if it would have been a strong mayor, we would have had this conversation. >> Second Vice Mayor Martin's motion. >> And let me just place on the record because I heard to the question that Councilman Winters, excuse me, sir. >> I was talking to him about someone else.
Don't worry. Um, and to the point Council Councilman Winters raised, it would not be sustainable over I mean the motion is until you pick someone else to be either an interim or a permanent. That should be the motion
to you pick another interim or permanent with all if if you might consider it that way. >> Sure. I I received that amendment. >> Vice Mayor, excuse me. >> Sure. I so I'll restate the motion. I move to appoint the village clerk as the interim village manager until such time
that we are able to either procure a new interim or permanent village manager. >> One second madam vice mayor. Um >> and just again for the record, yes, as to the question raised in in any
extended period of time, if you were not going to pick in accordance with the vice mayor's motion till January, that could be problematic. But for a period of, you know, couple three weeks ultimately till
what's the date of the regular November meeting? >> November 18th. >> Okay. If that appointment lasted till November 18th, it would certainly not be a problem to fill it until such time. Now, could you then make other
arrangements even including the clerk on November 18th? Then you might need to look at an interim clerk. But for the >> this couple of weeks gap, >> not a problem. >> Um Madam Vice Mayor, you all making a
motion. You all have we have to also attorney Geller uh just to be perfectly safe. Um Winter has brought up something about a resolution. So we we can say in a motion that um whatever we do tonight, we can move it forward with a resolution
forthcoming. There's a lot of times that in in the past we've done resolutions because where we're choosing somebody. So we go into the meeting not having a choice, not having anything prepared. we make the choice and then we can prepare the resolution afterwards.
>> I I will prepare to the mayor's point something in writing that memorializes the the decision presuming that's the decision you vote. >> Okay. >> All right. So, we do have a new motion >> and I will second it. >> We have a motion by Vice Mayor Martin by
Council Person. Do I have any further discussion? I see many amazing residents who come up to this mic every single time here and I see all of them would do a great job as an interim and I'm wondering if any of you guys put your
actual resume in to be manager. No one Okay, >> we have a we have a we have a motion. We have a second. Um, before we take roll call, are there any residents that have a comment or
question? We opened up every other item for the residents. I didn't want to not open up this item. Okay. All right. So, we have a motion. We have a second. Madam clerk, may I please have roll call, please? >> Council person Winters. >> No.
>> Lifewood Ward. >> The motion is to appoint Clerk Jacobe as the interimm village manager. >> Yes. Council President Bomb. >> Yes. >> Vice Mayor Martin.
>> Yes. >> Mayor Nickerson. >> Yes. >> Motion passes 4 to one. >> Thank you guys very much. Um you guys, Madame Manager, you want to talk about your report? >> No, I don't. >> Hold on. Hold on. We We have H4.
>> Oh, that's right. Sorry. >> And I make a motion to extend the meeting to 12:15. >> All right. So, um, >> and didn't we have to discuss the procedure? Like, what is the clerk getting to us and when? >> Yeah, that's what I was going to say. Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt. We're
not done with the subject because we I do need a directive um on how you guys if you guys want to keep it open for another week or if you guys just want to end it. Like, I need a directive from you guys. What do you guys want me to do to move it forward? >> 150 resumes. I think we're prepared next
week already to figure out a time for us to review these resumes and get going. You can send them out tomorrow. We're ready. >> So, so just >> I only have >> just for direction, you guys. >> Yeah. >> Of the of the um the resumes that she has um as they stated,
>> uh >> the majority of them aren't don't have any municipal >> like experience or they don't fit the qualifications. If you look at the job description that the um clerk put online, it says a couple of things. It has the education requirements, it has experience requirements, it has things
like that. So, there's a lot of people that turned their resumes in that don't have that. So, those are automatically like pushed aside. Out of the ones that are left, um, how many so far, I mean, more might come in by the 31st, but how
many so far do you feel, if you can remember off top of your head, do you feel are good enough to meet the minimum requirements that are required in the description that went out? I think they're all good, but in the sense of what the minimum requirements are, two
>> or the minimum requirements >> minimum requirement >> and the the ones that you said that are good. >> No, I mean they're good in the sense that I think anybody applying for a job >> is good because they're will they're showing they're willing to work. Now, I'm talking about for the needs of the
what the actual description >> of the job >> of the job to looking at. I mean 150 is a lot. It's a task. Um I I say about 150. I'm not too sure, but it's in the hundreds. Um only two. >> Only two. >> Only two.
>> Okay. So the on Friday when it closes out, so Friday, Friday at 5 o'clock, does it close out? >> Yeah. >> Okay. Friday when it closes out, I don't um you'll be here Friday, >> of course. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, Friday when it closes out, Friday evening,
council, um hopefully we can expect the the resumes that have made it, the ones that have made the the minimum qualifications going to the job description that went out and she'll email that out you guys to us, okay?
>> To the residents, I mean to to the to the council to the council. The residents, if you need it, um if once I get it, just contact me. I'll send it to you. you guys um also need to discuss um how do you want to proceed with them to either get a call or do you guys want to
meet like before you know now that we're here in the sunshine you can um have like an pre-in with them one-on-one you guys got to give me some kind of directive so I can make sure that when that closes >> point of order I move to extend the meeting to 12:15 >> okay yes thank you uh motion by council
person uh Irvon do a second >> second >> second by uh council person win all in favor say Hi. Hi. >> So, like I was saying, if it was the pleasure of the council that you guys wanted to each interview one on- one, you know, in like 15 minutes, 30 minutes prior to the meeting and then I I need
to give the I need to get that directed from you guys if >> I would love to have an opportunity to do that to do that mini one-on-one interview. And also, I I don't think it can be overstated that we need somebody with experience being a manager so that they can be off and running. There's a
lot of moving parts to this. And I also, you know, just want us to keep the bigger picture in mind as well in the future when we're talking about salaries and city managers. I think the salary is the big sticking point why we don't have other persons who have this type of experience apply for this job here. Um,
so I just want us to keep that in our mind as we think about how we grow and how we change in the future. But I would love to see the resumes with folks who have this type of experience because that's a tough tough job. Um especially if you don't have a lot of staff that also scares people away.
>> Exactly. It is a big job and it doesn't translate. So if you have experience as a c a manager somewhere else at like a Marriott and this is something completely different. There are rules, there are timelines, there are nuances that you understand if you understand.
So, I would love someone who has municipal experience and I would appreciate that opportunity to have a one-on-one discussion with them before we have the the larger conversation. >> Yeah. Thank you very much, man. Vice May, you have great you have a comment now. So, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold
on, hold on, hold on, hold on one second. One sec. One second. And I'll get you I'll bring you up to the podium. All right. But so, we're going to receive the uh the resumes on, you know, Friday afternoon. Um, you know, hopefully the computer I know you're having computer problems. Yeah, I'm having a little bit of issues with my computer, but
>> Friday evening >> open till 5. >> Okay. I want to be clear with something, Mr. Mayor. I I I agree that these need to have municipal experience, but as I know after meeting many many managers, there's a rotation where they go to a city for a few years, then they go to
the next city, and they just keep rotating around cities. I'm not in the line to get someone that's going to stick around for two or three years. I want to make sure that we're not just focusing on managers. Anyone with mun municipal experience should be considered. I don't want to get two resumes. I want to make sure we get a
full amount to read through so I can also take care and call all of their people that are they're um >> Can you give me a description of municipal experience? >> Well, someone >> because I'm just I'm asking for directives. So, if the mayor of the council, that's the pleasure. I just like to know what a uh
>> someone who advises other managers, someone who advises under mayors, >> that would be a consultant, right? >> Well, that's still municipal experience. It's not hands-on every day, but I'm just asking what is it that you guys want? >> If the manager and the mayor need consultation and they can't do it their own, that means whoever is giving them
that consultation has the experience because the manager and mayor of another city require it. That puts them at a level above normal. >> I'm sorry. If the if the majority of the council would like to give that directive, then that's a >> point of water.
>> Come on, people. We know how to do this. There is a job opportunity. This is not hard. We know how we got the village manager. We know how we got the village clerk. We're going to use that same
>> that same what is it called >> process. >> We're going to use that same thing. It's you send your resume. You let us know who you are. How do you do the job? That's it. Bam. We're not going to make this. So, we're going to advertise it. Have we advertised it? And then they're
going to send it what they have. We're going to read it. And since I've been doing this since the beginning of time, we'll know how to we'll know what to do. >> We will know. >> Again, I'm overconfident that you guys by Tuesday are going to have your next person in place. Remember, they have to give two weeks notice. Maybe I don't
know. I don't see >> also if depending on whether you want to try to do Tuesday as one thing. >> The comment I think it was you vice mayor. I may be wrong. Somebody commented on the salary. Was that you? So somebody raised the issue of the >> Yes, it was
>> the salary that is being advertised. >> Yes. >> So one option again you can you could schedule it. One option is just schedule this discussion and process with whatever you got Tuesday before you get
into the the issue of the the roundabout. But another option would be if you decide that you know you want more qualified resumeumés than than two understanding that you may have some
others come in by Friday maybe. But one option would be right now or Tuesday night if you prefer because we're running out of time here anyway. You could decide to raise the minimum
salary. I think the range is 90 to 150 as advertised. Is that >> 90 to 150? >> The 90 is a deal killer. You could raise the minimum and reopen it and target
leaving your interim interim manager there till your regular meeting November 18th about three weeks away. and you could open it up for another couple of weeks, readvertise
with a lower minimum. You could keep the 150 if you want to, but or not, but you could try to raise the floor and reopen it and see if you get more qualified resumes to choose from than two. Now
again, if you've got two and and you're only picking an interim and you want to use that to take more time to look at other decisions and keep it open longer, that's an option. But if you want to try not to pick another interim, if you want
to see about trying to see if you can get a permanent, then you may want to wait till the 18th to do that. Now again, that may or may not be a very crowded agenda. maybe not that crowded and you could raise the floor, reopen,
readvertise and say, you know, you have till, I don't know, the the the 10th or something to turn in. That's two another couple weeks and take see if you get more qualified resumes, have a chance to review them and decide on the 18th.
>> You don't have to decide that tonight. You could decide that Tuesday, but you could decide it tonight. Or if you have more business to do on your process, you can do that Tuesday night instead of choosing between two qualified resumes. You have a lot of options.
>> I have a quick question about qualifications. So, I'm I'm open to ex, you know, casting as wide in it as possible. um understanding that I'm definitely someone who understands that government and business are wildly
two different animals. But but for example, would an executive who was in charge of uh say like uh a large company that had like 12 different divisions, would someone like that have >> the type of qualifications required for
a job like this? No. is still not rising to the level of of qualifications needed. Okay. >> So, I mean, I'm just curious if like there would be >> corporate world is a total different world than government world. I mean, >> okay. >> Can we bring this to an edge? >> I'm just saying >> I did that.
>> I did that for years. >> I was village manager of five cities. Five of them. If you don't want to have to go through all of that, I still know what to do. I'm not asking for a salary. I'm looking for a person that can take this person's job because she didn't
used to do this, but she told us she was an attorney and she's done a great job. >> I just want >> you don't need to be going all over and have >> But she has No, no, no. But that's the thing that people don't know. >> She had DC experience experience. She has a lot of experience
direct in Washington DC. She has >> I wasn't a manager. I was a department director or an agency director. We know why we we we know why >> you had you had staff that you were responsible for and and operations that you were in charge of. Is that right? Yeah. So that's what I'm saying that
that's equivalent. We also have that's what I'm asking. Someone else who would have operational management experience. Would they qualify for this position if it was non-governmental? >> No. Okay. These be within government. >> Okay. >> They wouldn't have to be a manager.
>> Yeah. No. No. No. Anybody that was an assistant man assistant to the manager, maybe somebody who was a department head, you know, have to know something about >> government because it it operate. You you might hire someone with that
experience as an assistant if they could then get the experience, >> but you can't put them in charge if they've never done government. >> Gotcha. So, I send it out to like I was saying before, I send it out to 42 human resources, all the municipalities, and then some. >> There you go.
>> Okay. Usually, um, somebody from the municipalities ask for it. Remember, when people who work in government and know government, they also look at the other cities or the city that they're going to get into and they look at their videos and they research and they make sure that they know a lot about the city
and all that kind of stuff. So there's some I spoke to some clerks because clerks usually since they work so close in hand with the managers usually become managers. That's not my interest. I'm way far away from that. But on that sense there are clerks who are making
150 175 200 >> to them. It wasn't appealing. >> Yeah. >> All right. So I was in the middle of saying a sentence like about 10 minutes ago and I was It wasn't you that cut me off. It was somebody back here. >> It was probably me. I'm sorry. >> No, it wasn't you. It wasn't you. All right. So, um, as I was saying, okay, so
this is what we have to tackle. So, we're getting the things on Friday to set up the meetings. It's probably hard to set up in person all of those meetings with five people. So, there's two ways we can do this. We can either
once we get the resumes individually, reach out to the individuals. If you're able to um, you know, schedule a in-person meeting with them, fine. But Zoom should also be an option probably might be easier for them. Things are quick because we're trying to move
everything quick from what I hear. So yourself once on Friday evening once we get these resumes you start to reach out to these individuals and set up your own meetings with them. Okay. Um so we have that part as far as the discussion that
was happening about the job description. This is what I was going to say. The first thing is is is the worry that we're leaving out some people with the job description because
if because I heard like up here, you know, a couple people which nobody say anything wrong, but I heard a couple people like say for example, you know, I don't want to vote for just a manager. I want to vote for someone else or, you know, just because they have a manager um experience doesn't mean that that's the one I want to vote for. All of that
is fine. That almost has nothing almost in a little way it does but almost has nothing to do with getting the resumes. You vote and who you vote for is what you vote for up here. If you say I don't want to vote for this person because this person has brown hair. That's your prerogative.
The manager has to be put in by three affirmative votes of the council for whatever reason. I like how they smell when I walk past whatever you say. Hopefully it's experience. Hopefully it's, you know, doing the village well. But for whatever reason. So, we shouldn't
use the resumeumés to put our opinion on the resumes. That's going to happen when you vote up here. Okay. Now, I would just say that the resumeumés that get to us, all those
who make it to us on Friday at whatever date, and this come back to you, Congress bomb, because you were kind of looking at the dates of stuff. for whatever date we choose to discuss this item on. Okay. So, we have to decide how many days do we want after Friday. Do we
think that's going to take us a week to reach out to those people and set up these? That's why I say Zoom meetings because you can just do them back to back to back to back like 15 minutes, 30 minutes, whatever. Just in your home, whatever. Just knock out six in a row if you can. But how long do we think it's going to take for us once we get the
resumes to then set up a meeting? Because whatever date we choose, that's the date when that the clerk can reach out to them or when you and you can, you know, reitify this when you speak to them in your meetings. Hey, okay, see
you on November D. So that that November date, we can have those individuals here in the audience. That way, if there's ideas we have, if there's other questions that we have, other questions people have, we can ask them in real time and make the vote right then and
there on that date. Mayor, your point is not only well taken, but let me just say often, as much as I certainly encourage all of you to do your own one-on-one interviews with the serious candidates, I mean, if
you've only got a handful of serious candidates, that's not difficult. But one thing you you can do to your point that you just made to follow your point, um I've often seen where before a decision is made, the council also
conducts a public interview with the serious candidates open to the public. The public is able to sit there, listen, and if you wish, you can even allow
questions. I would urge you, not in the uh adversarial fashion that sometimes takes place here, but to allow residents to submit questions in writing to the mayor. And if the mayor deems
them appropriate, you can then ask the residents questions of the candidates. But at least then the the public gets a look at the candidates, sees who's there. >> Point of order. We need to extend the meeting. >> Uh, do I have a motion to extend?
>> Motion to extend for 15 more minutes. >> 15 second. All in favor say I. >> I. >> Go ahead. Attorney Geller, continue, please. >> Yes, sir. >> Yes. >> You were you were saying >> I'm just saying that, you know, you you should absolutely all have one-on-one
interviews to the extent that you want to with each like let's call them finalists, whether that's two or that's five. But what you can do is depending as long as you don't have more than that whenever you schedule and maybe you want a special meeting. You don't want to do
it on the 18th of November if that's an option. You want a special meeting whether you extend or not. But you invite all of those finalists. You schedule them for a public interview where they make their presentation for, you know, a few minutes and then you
listen and you ask them questions that you want answered publicly and if residents have questions, they put them in writing. The mayor can read those. Doesn't have to, but can read those and the public gets a look at them before you vote. So, that's something you can
do in addition to your private one-on-one in-person or Zoom interviews. >> All right, you guys. Sounds good. Um, so we're going to receive that. Do you guys want to So, we can do this one two ways. Do you guys want to or I guess on Tuesday we can decide.
We'll put this on the agenda item on Tuesday. On Tuesday, we'll decide um how much more time we need before we bring them all back for a meeting. And maybe it's the the November full council meeting. >> I was going to propose we have that meeting next Thursday and bring the
candidates in. >> But but do we that's what I'm saying. But do we know right now? Does everybody know right now? >> Do you guys want to open it? Keep it longer because you only have two candidates. If you're okay with that, you need to give me a direct. >> Definitely not okay with that. >> Put on an agenda item. If you're going to do it Tuesday,
>> then agenda item as part of the discussion. >> Do you want to change the ad? Do you want to reopen it? Do you want to adjust the ad in any way? You could consider. You may not. You may say,
"Listen, we had another three come in. We got five. That's good enough. But at least consider if you're going to finalize the process Tuesday. Now you've talked about it. You've all thought about it. You can decide on Tuesday when you see how many. Are we good with what
we got? Do we want to reopen it for another week, 10 day, whatever?" You can go, you know, a month this way if you needed to. If you can do it in two weeks, great. If you can do it in a week and a half also, great. See how many you got, decide whether you want to reopen
and decide that final process and also select the date then. >> All right. >> I think this is a sound way to do it because we don't know who we have, guys. It could be three, but we only need one manager. >> Yeah. I will say I will say that watching our our current manager work
with deaf tact and grace with thicker skin than most people on earth have I am not shocked that we might only have but a couple candidates who would be able to meet match those requirements. So >> they know what the position is. very few
people I think could handle uh this a you know I didn't understand what this job was but after watching manager Aloo handle this with uh uh with an unbelievable amount of skill that um that uh the situation she's the crucible
she's gone through I I I definitely believe that there really are only a few candidates who would be qualified >> and hopefully they haven't watched your meetings >> so that part so position will be called village manager position. That gives us the leeway to take that wherever we want
and to make all the decisions we need. >> And you guys still want me to be going through them and making sure they meet the minimum requirement which are in the job description. You guys need to decide this too. >> Yes. Is it already on the road? >> Absolutely. >> Is it already out there? >> Um I'm getting very concerned as I keep
hearing, you know, low numbers here and I I know that there's got to be someone out there inside this. I mean, I almost want to look at all 150 and I'll spend the whole next week going through each one on my own in this office here until I I look through them because I >> Are you Are you saying that you don't
believe what um that I went through? >> I don't actually. Absolutely not. I've had people contact me and I know for a fact >> um council council purchas council person winters with all due respect I'm here to do a job and the mayor you alone cannot tell the manager
and it's in the if you would have read the charter and if you would have become educated like I'd asked you a thousand times you would understand that in that charter it says that you cannot give a directive alone >> so you want you educated me a thousand times okay I got it >> you cannot get a directive you cannot
get a direct The problem when we are on this dis right here and I ask you for something just to look at all the the choices you can do that as anybody here >> public record >> that's a public record >> welcome to look at them there's nobody can tell >> so anyone else up here can say they want
to but I have to go to public record >> he did not say no no no I'm sorry >> that's what I just happened >> no please understand listen before listen he you just need to listen for a second okay what's going on here is the majority of the council that's why I'm saying give me a directive and Majority
of the council will decide if that's what they want. Not that they want to. They've asked me or tasked me. That's what I'm asking for me to go through it and make sure that what whoever comes in has the minimum requirement that's in the job description. That's what's going
on. And >> is there something in particular or someone in particular that has applied that you because you said you just finished saying somebody told >> Yes, I've been contacted by people. I hope all of you have been too because I've seen emails and those are all public record too. >> You've been contacted I'm sorry by people that I've I've
>> I have no idea who you've talked to. All I know is I heard two people. >> I haven't talked to anybody. I'm asking we're here for directives. >> Okay. But you alone for a larger net the pleasure of the council. I don't think you're understanding. >> I've I've reached out to people but I'm
realizing that honestly the people I've been reaching out to don't have the qualification. If you have somebody here who doesn't have the qualifications and then they do the decision you don't like. You're going to be here saying, "Well, why did I pick this person? They don't even know what they're doing because they don't have the qualifications of knowledge. They need to have the minimum."
>> This whole thing we're going through right now, manager Lou, would you do me a favor and tell everyone about the day you were uh hired here? >> That doesn't come to >> I'm sorry. I I have a point with this. >> The day I was hired? >> Yeah. Did you submit a resume before you
were hired? >> Yes, >> you did. Were you in the audience the day that they hired you? >> Yes, I was. >> Did they know that they were going to be firing the council manager that same day before they hired you? >> Yes. >> So, it was on record that the manager
was going to be fired that exact day and then you were going to be hired from the >> No, it wasn't on record. It was um brought to me by um uh staff because I had applied for the job when it was um you know advertised a year before. I was
one of the remaining candidates when I think we there were two or three of us. I wasn't selected and then confused when >> is there somebody in the audience that you want or desire? No, I'm telling >> I'm so confused of what's going on. >> Okay. I'm saying right now very clearly
that the selection process when she was hired was not as stiff as is right now. >> Okay. They basically >> you applied a year before. You were in the audience when they happened to fire the other manager. >> But I'm trying to explain it to you. you're telling the story, but I want to
tell it. So, I was contacted. Are you would you still be interested if the opportunity arose? Are you have you taken on another position? I said, I'd be interested. We're calling those people who made the final cut before. So, I came in, I was the only one who
came. I sat in the meeting. I didn't know that it was going to happen that night. It wasn't advertised in that way. The gentleman was on the dis. They did the work. And then >> so my point now is we have 150 résumés within a month and within the month that
you were hired >> there was not 150 resumes because you applied your resume a year before. >> I don't I don't like to sugar coat anything. It sounds like you would like to say something very clearly about somebody that you know. >> I would like to look at all 15. >> I would too. I would like I would like
to look at Can I say something because we I feel like we've >> been hiring freeze in this country since January. I'm surprised there wasn't 500 applications. >> No. So, this is this is my this is my position because I feel like we're in the Twilight Zone. I want an objective criteria by which we can cut off and and
only look at the persons who are qualified beyond that objective criteria. I don't want to have resumes based on someone who knows someone. I just want an objective criteria. >> That's what the clerk is illustrating is that she's gone through the resumes
using objective criteria. And so if there is >> first of all you guys can go through them but remember you're going to be voting for so you can't just select and then give me whoever you want because if that would have been the case then I would have been giving it to you guys and I wouldn't be doing this. >> So my vote is to have people looking for a job.
>> My vote is to have an objective criteria and those candidates that meet that criteria level and above I would love to see. Um beyond that no that would be my vote. I I would not want all 150 of the
resumes. >> Okay. So, um there's a job description. It's in there. If anyone wants to change a job description, you guys, it has to be changed by um at least three votes of the council. >> All right. >> And the only thing for sure you would
seriously consider changing I would think >> you can't take out the requirement of government experience. You really can't. You could consider changing the floor.
I suppose you could consider changing the number of years of government experience that's required because there is a number. >> For the sake of time, can we just make a second agenda item for that meeting of discussion of job requirements?
That way we can move on to H. >> Exactly. You have it Tuesday. put on there discussion about village manager possible reopen possible change of but you know possible change of criteria that's one of the things and you set a
timeline >> it's it's not that complicated >> village manager position under that we have a leeway to go wherever we want to go on Tuesday that's going to be the agenda item village manager position >> perfect okay that's Tuesday all right
back to the budget amendment and we're looking for a date. >> I'm sorry, mayor. I still need the directive and you guys need to vote on this because I am not going to be held like council person uh Winters is saying that he does not believe or trust what I say. >> Okay. All right. Is there a motion? Is
there a motion to There's really only two concrete things right now. That is that on Friday we will we will receive the this. All right. This is this what we're going to do. I'm gonna do three things so that we have clarity. I need a motion that on Friday we'll
receive the um the resumeumés because we're closing out the job um the the we're closing out the job on Friday, the position on Friday as as it's been as normal, like as it's been. We're not changing anything right now. If we decide on Tuesday, that's that's
different. So, right now, I need a motion to close out um the job resumeumés on Friday at 5:00 PM. As already stated, we will receive the resumeumés on Friday evening. Okay,
that's part of the motion. The next part of the motion is we will have um this as an agenda item on Tuesday's council meeting. >> That's Yeah, >> that's the second part. And then the the third part of this motion that I need
because the mayor can't make the motion or say the third part that I need of this motion is we will move with the stipulations currently with the current job description. On Tuesday we decide to change it and
reopen it for six months. That's fine. That's Tuesday. But right now, tonight, that's the motion. >> I'm well, I'll say it. I move to close out this process at 5:00 PM. Ask the clerk to forward any qualifying resumes
to the council members so they may make contact. >> And >> on Tuesday, we have our meeting. >> On Tuesday, we will have our meeting >> with the agenda item. >> But until that time, we will continue as currently outlined.
>> Yes. I would like to uh >> I'll second that motion >> state um that I met with the clerk a few weeks ago and I asked her about this managorial decision how we would be going through the process and she said that she would be sending us 10 to 20 names. We'd go through these resumes,
pick our favorite five each council person, then they send it back to her and she would average them out and then those five people would be put in front of the council. >> And what else? I'm sorry. And what I haven't seen the resume and and and what else did I tell you that they needed to have when you said,
"How do I get the person I want?" Let me let me government experience. >> How did when you said, "How do I make sure that the person I want or the person that I want will get in?" And what did I answer? Tell me what the answer was. >> Government experience. And what has changed since then? >> Nothing's changed. But I haven't seen
that because I know >> if you don't get 10 or 20 that have government experience. Is that my fault? >> Well, you said two. That's what you said earlier. On the record, you said >> yes, that's what I'm saying. We only have two. >> The clerk and I discussed this. >> That was a procedure that I had
suggested to her if there were multiple qualifying resumes to try to narrow it down. Everybody picks. >> There's no way for me to know when you and I spoke that there were going to be How many are I want to be proven wrong? Just show me I'm wrong by by letting me look at more of them. Once I know
there's I will apologize. >> You are welcome to look at them. They are public records. >> The only thing is that I want you to know you guys are going to be the ones voting on it. >> By the way, last week when I sent you the email, what did it say? >> I asked for all of them, which is a public records request.
>> And what did I say? I'll get it. You said you we're not done with the process. No, pull out the No, no, no, no. It can't it can't always be this contentious. >> Mayor, you have to extend again. >> But this is getting confusing. >> I want you to read the email. Give me a second. Give yourself
again. All right. No. >> Okay. Ridiculous. Read the email. >> What is going on? >> Thank you. >> One person at a time. >> First of all, let me just say this. >> You must extend against >> I understand. I understand. Just wait.
Let me say this. I'm I'm lenient with you guys on everything, on time, on how many times you all come up. Per Robert rules, the way you guys really are supposed to be doing it is, Mr. Mayor, if I may, every
time you go to speak, >> you guys cut me off. I don't say anything. You guys jump in front of me sometimes to talk to the residents. I don't say anything. One person at a time. Do I have a motion to extend? >> I move to extend and I'll offer a formal
apology for anytime I've cut you off, mayor. And I will be cognizant of that in the future. >> I appreciate that. Don't worry about you all. You guys agree with me. >> I second that motion. >> Okay, we're we're extending for how much time? Let's say 30 minutes. Maybe >> 15 minutes >> here. >> All right, we let's keep trying. All
right, I have a motion for a second. All in favor say I. >> I. >> Okay. All right. So right now you all where we sit we have a motion we have a second. >> Okay. >> Um madam clerk may please have a roll call please. >> Roll call. Council person Winters.
>> Yes. >> Council person lifeoot Ward. >> Yes. >> Council person Bomb. >> Yes. >> Vice Mayor Martin. >> Yes. >> Mayor Nickerson. >> Yes. >> Motion passes five to none. >> All right you guys. Council person Irvine. Back to you. We're talking about the date for the budget of
>> Mayor. respectfully, if I might, and council council person, um I would heartily urge you because you you really should have some idea what you're doing about manager to schedule
the budget. I would suggest heartily that you make item three Tuesday night setting date for special budget meeting. You'll have disposed of your roundabout. You'll have decided your time frame and
what you're doing on manager. And then all you need to do doesn't have to be a big discussion just to vote on setting the date and do it Tuesday night. >> Mayor Semen, if I can. >> Of course. Of course. >> Uh so in my in my mind, I'm thinking
just the following Tuesday. So my question is for the clerk. Assuming we set a date this upcoming Tuesday at the meeting as outlined by the attorney just now, would that give you enough time to notice that budget meeting for the following Tuesday? >> Sure. Okay.
>> Absolutely. >> Sorry, someone's correct me on >> Oh, yeah. I'm sorry. That's why our meeting is not that day. >> Okay. >> Because we usually have the second week, but it's Veterans Day. Thanks for the reminder. >> We would have even an extra 48 hours then in that case. Yeah. So, we're still good on the on the notice timeline is
>> but we can't do it that day >> because of it's it's a holiday. >> No, no. I know I'm right. Right. I'm saying but if we decide on a date this >> very next Tuesday, >> that gives you enough time to notice >> later in the following week. Correct. >> I just want to be on the record that
there's no time constraint. Okay. Very good. I would like to uh uh take the attorney's advice and uh move to add an agenda item to next Tuesday's meeting
as follows. Set a date for budget amendments review. >> Okay. So, so I'll call it um budget
amendment review uh future date. >> Perfect. >> Is that good? >> Yes. I make >> scheduling date of >> I move to have the uh third agenda item for next Tuesday's meeting be scheduled date
>> of the budget amendment review. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Okay. I have a motion by Council President Urban for the scheduling of the date bud budget amendment review to be a agenda item on the upcoming Tuesday uh meeting. Do you have a second?
>> So on Tuesday, this upcoming Tuesday, we're going to meet because we're going to meet and the first item is the roundabout again and >> uh you guys want seven o'clock, 6:30 >> 7 o'clock. Madam Vice Mayor, Tuesday's time. What's best for you?
>> Uh 6:30. >> 6:30 is good. Okay. >> So, we'll do 6:30 this upcoming Tuesday. I have three agenda items. The roundabout uh change order, village manager position, and schedule date of the budget amendment review. And that's
what we're on right now. Uh council person made a motion. I'm looking for a second. >> Second. >> All right. So, we have a second. I'll go with Ward on this one, madam vice mayor. Um so moved by council person um bomb, second by council person Lightoot Ward. Um madame clerk, may I please have a
roll call on that? >> Roll call. Council person Winters. >> Yes. >> Council person Lightoot Ward. >> Yes. >> Council person bomb. >> Yes. >> Vice Mayor Martin? >> Yes. >> Mayor Nickerson? >> Yes. >> Motion passes. Five. >> All right. This is perfect. You guys, um for you all, uh Madame Manager, you
might want to contact um Mr. Hubio and and Mohan because I think the the insurance people wanted to see something about the insurance or something like that. I don't know but >> I we will attempt contact with the attorney. We would we can only request I don't know if we'll have it in time for
the agenda. >> Yeah. Because tomorrow I have to come here tomorrow is what? Tomorrow is Wednesday if it's t. Okay. So if it's Tuesday Yeah. So myself and the and the clerk have to work on the agenda. All right, madam manager. Um >> okay. Okay, I'm going to make it brief
and I I really hung in there because I wanted to just say one, you know, this these last things. The manager's report is not completed. I'm still waiting for some information on one more thing, but I'm of course we'll have it posted um for all to read as I always do on the
village website. Um this is I've done over a hundred of these meetings. is insane that my child is now 17 years old and and she's in a different place where once when I was here um you know I was always like worrying about the
babysitter in these meetings because you know these extensions I'm like I'll be home in 30 minutes. Okay, I'll be home another 20. But um we're at that point now where she's 17 and no longer in need of a babysitter. Excuse me, gentlemen. Excuse me.
So I want to report that the tot lot the pour in place is taking place on Thursday. So at least that part will be done four days from there. The tot lot play equipment will be in place. We do want to do landscaping and pave the
parking lot, but I'll leave that to you all and I will come back and you know enjoy the park. But I, you know, you all will be opening up and um finalizing everything on without me. But um just know we worked hard to try to get that done. And the delay has always been um
weather uh working with contractors, you know, who had other projects that were bigger and so we had to wait. But we we did um that that is finally finishing up and that will take place on Thursday and then four days from that it
will be cured enough for um use. Uh it is going to be a beautiful um tot lot with water features, misters for our kids and everything. So please um just know that once that's done and the other final touches are put in place, he'll be ready for grand opening. And I know Mayor Nickerson has some things planned
for that big opening and so does the vice mayor, um uh Vice Mayor Martin also wants to to to do something. So I think it's important that um and I I'm sure you will continue to push for these projects to finalize. Um, we did talk about the Forest Man roundabout and all
of its um, uh, the change order and what's happening with that, but we know that it will end um, or be finished at the, um, in the next, uh, few weeks. But also the county approached us with a safe safe route to school project, a
green walk to school and they are um making plans to do some changes on the west side as part of their program. Uh just like we did uh we planted over 70 trees uh on our phase three of green walk to school. So we did plant trees
this year in that uh west side uh as well. So we are still uh we uh you know the village is still very viable in terms of um putting our environment first and planting those trees but also making it safe for our children. So the
next phase that will come from the county will be improving the sidewalks and um signage and and walkability uh on the west side. Um I'm sorry. Also in December, uh this was something
that we wanted to do perhaps last month, but just with the way the time, you know, is on the agendas, it was pushed off. Um we conducted and completed a tree inventory through grant funds that we received. And um that tree inventory
is to be presented to our community and council. Mayor Nickerson graciously um extended the opportunity for that presentation to happen at our at your December council meeting. So be aware that that will be coming and we'll talk about what the arborist was able to this
um inventory took place uh over the fall spring months uh ended uh at the beginning of summer and they have a lot um to report about the condition of the urban our urban canopy because that's what it is and just the expectations of
life and um and what we can do to to help it. So that presentation will be coming in December and I know there are a lot of people who really want to see more done with um you know the environment and the mayor put together the another task force and I know
council person bomb is the uh tree board um chair. So there will be some things that you'll be working on coming from that tree inventory. Uh, and we also uh got some software and a little uh um tablet that our public works coordinator
is now able to use to keep track of maintenance and growth and size. And it's all a program that was provided from the um arborist that did the inventory. It was through the um Chin Chin Moore. And finally, I I have been
working like crazy to just wrap up that office, my office or my former office as of Monday, uh it will be, but um just to wrap things up in a way that there will be lots of trails to follow. When I
first came here in 2017, just days before uh Hurricane Irma, I mean, you couldn't find anything. Everything was gone. I mean, no files, no I mean, I can even find a pen. So, it it was just that there was such um a disarray and and and
a lot of things that needed to be done. I appreciate um the opportunity I was given by people here and even the people before this council, but the residents um as well. So many of you all supported me through these eight years. Some people challenged me and never gave me a
break, but um I loved the work. I really grew to love the work and I really appreciate this opportunity and I hope that I made a difference here for you all the way you did for me. >> So, thank you
Madame Mayor. >> Thank you very much, >> Mr. Mayor. >> Yes, Council Life Award. >> Thank you on behalf of all of us for coming to us, staying with us, and doing a very good job. Thank you, my dear.
>> Thank you. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> All right, you guys. I appreciate it. Um, you guys see my report there. Uh, if you have any questions or comments, get in touch with me. Um, easy to find. Uh, attorney Geller, do you have any reports >> at this hour? No.
>> Okay. Thank you very much. I appreciate that. Do I have a motion to adjourn? >> Mayor, final comment as a final good. Everybody, please reach out to your Jamaican friends and neighbors. Okay. Please check on your Jamaican friends and neighbors. Uh, please check on your Jamaican friends and neighbors.
>> Thank you very much, Council President Urban. I appreciate that. Any last questions or comments? Everybody good? >> If No, no, there's no good in welfare. I was talking about the council. I was talking with the council. Um, that being said, do I have a motion to adjurnn? >> So moved. >> So moved. >> Do I have a second? >> Second.
>> All in favor say I. >> I. >> All right. There we go. The council meeting for Tuesday, October 28th is adjourned. Oh, October 28th is adjourned on October 29th at 12:49 12:43 a.m.