##VIDEO ID:obmF_R91880## [Music] right back okay joh John how you doing next good to see you yes yes h o r a c e that's what I 
got that's what I thought I heard you got blue FS bring them 
up here we can take them you oh my go sh a d dep I don't think I've ever seen an attorney far so you get no no I'm talking right everybody ready ready okay Miss Rachel M we ready 
okay good morning good morning everyone we're glad to have uh all of you 
out today uh we appreciate your attendance   uh for this meeting uh just one housekeeping 
matter before we really get into the meeting   of course um could everyone either put your 
phone turn it off or put it on silent abely   we've got a quite a few people here and uh 
it's really helpful to the proceedings uh   so the board would appreciate you doing that 
and other than that I'll say good morning and   welcome uh the meeting of the escamia County 
Board of adjustment for August the 241st 2024   is hereby call to order with five members 
present and we do have a quorum for all our hearings will the clerk please swear in the 
members of the staff please raise your right   hand you solemly swear and affirm that the 
testimony you're about to give will be the   truth the whole truth and nothing but the 
truth s you God I do members of of the board   copies of the staff's resumés have previously 
been provided and remain on file of course for   reference the board has previously recognized 
the staff as expert Witnesses does anyone have   any questions regarding their qualifications and 
abilities to offer export uh testimony seeing none the boa meeting package for August 21 2024 with 
the development services staff's findings of fact   has previously been provided to board members 
the chair will now entertain a motion to accept   the boa meeting package into evidence Mo do 
I have a I have a motion do I have a second   we I have a second all those in favor 
of this motion please raise your right   hand let the record reflect this motion passed unanimously Madame clerk do we 
have a proof of publication yes   sir did the publication meet all the 
necessary legal requirements yes sir the chair will now entertain a motion to wave 
the readings of the legal advertisement do I   hear a motion motion I have a motion do I hear a 
second second I have a second all those in favor   of this motion please raise your right hand let 
the record reflect that this motion passed unit ly members of the board have you reviewed the 
minutes for the board of adjustment meeting   held on July 17 2024 upon your review of the 
minutes are there any additions deletions or Corrections let the record reflect that that no 
board member indicated uh as such the chair will   now entertain a motion regarding the minutes for 
the board of adjustment meeting held on July 17   2024 do I have a motion motion I have a motion do 
I have a second I have a second all those in favor   of this motion will raise your right hand let 
the record reflect that that this motion passed unanimously we now turn to uh the purpose of 
the board of adjustment and the conduct of this   meeting uh and this explanation will perhaps help 
many of you I'm sure have not been here before   but um it will give you an idea of how 
we will proceed the board of adjustment   hears administrative appeals variances and 
conditional use requests these hearings are   Quasi judicial in nature quasi judicial hearings 
are like evidentiary hearings in a court of law   however less formal all public testimony will be 
taken under oath and anyone testifying before the   boa May may be subject to cross-examination all 
documents and Exhibits that the boa considers are   entered into evidence and made part of the record 
the giving of opinion testimony will be limited to   experts and closing arguments will be limited 
to the evidence in the record after hearing   the testimony and Arguments for and against the 
proposed action and before making its decision   the boa will consider the relevant testimony 
the exhibits entered into evidence and the   applicable law because decisions of the boa 
relating to variances conditional uses and   extensions of development order for site plan 
approval are final unless overturned by a court   of competent jurisdiction the County May issue 
development orders and permits for properties   in accordance with the decisions of the boa 
however if applicant requests the issuance of   any such order or permit and such order or permit 
is issued the applicant and not the county shall   bear any risk that such decisions may be set aside 
the development order or permit may be revoked   or development may be otherwise enjoyed by the 
reviewing Court any applicant for relief from a   decision of the boa for set actions or any agreed 
party as defined by state law May seek review of   such decision by filing an appropriate pleading in 
a court of competent jurisdiction within 30 days   of the boa decision the date of the boa decision 
shall be the date the boa voted at the conclusion   of the hearing whenever the boa decision I'm sorry 
whenever the boa de denies an application no new   application for an identical action on the same 
parcel shall be accepted for consideration within   a period of 180 days of the boa decision any 
person agrees by a decision of the boa relating to   an appeal of an administrative decision May within 
15 days thereafter apply to the Circuit Court for   review each individual who wishes to address the 
board regarding a particular issue must complete   a blue request to speak form and submit it to 
the clerk of board those forms are located on   the table at the back of the commission Chambers 
you will not be allowed to speak until we receive   one of these completed request to speak forms 
we must have these completed forms for public record and also I'd like to uh explain 
expart Communications any all written   or oral communication outside of this hearing 
with members of the boa regarding matters under   review today are considered expart Communications 
expart Communications are presumed presidential   or prejudicial under Florida law and must 
be disclosed as provided in Board of County   Commissioners resolution 96-13 before a decision 
by this board on any administrative appeal   variance or conditional use request the chair will 
ask as each cases heard that any board member who   has been involved in any expart communication 
regarding the respective issue to uh please   identifi El and describe this uh communication 
with that said now we turn to our first case this morning this is case number CU 202 2415 
810 Archer Road and 800 block Archer Road   a conditional use request to allow a restaurant 
not among the permitted uses requested by Gregory   Campbell agent for dkj real Properties LLC 
owner first uh board let me ask you has   there been any exp parte Communication 
in this case let the re record reflect   uh no board member uh has indicated there was 
has there been any knowledge or information uh   obtained from a site visit or other sources let 
the r record reflect uh that none uh uh was uh indicated does any board member intend to refrain 
from voting due to a voting conflict of interest   and let the board uh let the record reflect 
that no more board member indicated as such   therefore with the individuals who are a party 
to this item please come to the podium uh we   will ask you to state your name and address 
for the record so that you can be sworn in by   the clerk uh Gregory Campbell I'm the 
civil engineer my address is 2120 Maria   Circle please raise your right hand please 
raise your right hand do you solom me swear   and affirm the testimony you're about to 
give will be the truth the whole truth   and nothing but the truth so you God yes 
thank you and you can move the microphone up good morning sir good morning we're glad to 
have you with us thank you um were you provided   a copy of the criteria required to obtain a 
conditional use and a copy of the findings of   fact as uh developed by our staff yes sir I've 
I've read it and I agree with the findings and   recommendations of the of the staff and you 
understand that all criteria must be met in   order for the board to Grant a conditional 
use yes sir uh we can approach this one of   two ways uh if you prefer you might you are uh 
might make an opening short opening statement   uh or if you prefer the staff will make its 
findings and then of course you'll be able   to follow up with any additional statements yeah 
I'd rather do the lad okay Andrew I guess we're   to you excellent good morning board Caleb mccardy 
planning manager and aicp certified planner great   sit down um our first map here shows the location 
this is at the corner of Archer and Highway 29 our next slide shows the 500 foot 
radius zoning map the zoning of the   property is commercial as well as the 
surrounding property and our future land   designation for the property is also 
commercial this shows a aerial photograph   of the map and for our photos we posted a 
notice of public hearing sign on Highway 29 and this is looking Northeast kind of caddy 
cornered at the corner there um there is a   current temporary mobile vending unit on the site 
this is looking North along South Highway 29 from   the site um this is looking across Highway 29 
from the subject property and this is looking   South along 29 there we also put another U hearing 
sign on Archer Road since this was a corner type   of lot and this is looking Northeast along Archer 
Road and this is looking Southeast across Archer   from the property that concludes our photography 
and our maps and if you'd like um we can somewhat   expedite this unless we have some speakers on it 
but staff did find that it met all the criteria   for approval um with the conditions that the 
development review process must be applied   and approved from the county and related to 
mobile vending units the primary um intent   for restaurants another not otherwise allowed is 
essentially a food truck Court type of use which   is considered like an outdoor type of use um in 
this zoning District which triggers this hearing   um we would just say that the DRC must be approved 
for site development and that the individual   mobile vending units um would obtain permits from 
the county but we do recommend approval for this case um does anyone have any questions 
for the uh staff on this um [Music] Mr Campbell I'm sorry I'm old be work with 
me I'm I'm with you uh would you just explain   what you like to do um you know it's going to 
have three just three food trucks there's not   going to be any bans or uh any entertainment 
that would disrupt any neighbors um also um   we have a 16t buffer next to the residential 
uh property jent residential that will have   a fence and you know plants to buffer any 
noise from the food court um it's pretty   straightforward um you know we'll have to 
follow of course all the it's also going to   have a bathroom for people uh that go to 
the food court have a septic tank system   also a retention pond on the on the corner 
so it's are there questions from the board members uh I have a question uh what hours 
are you uh planning I think I think it's   going to be 7 a.m. I mean 700 p.m. probably 
800 a 7 a.m. to 7 p.m. okay and you say that   there won't be any outside entertainment 
correct and it does back up owns uh the   some neighborhoods there or some homes 
there um and what your is your buffering   plan again uh we have a 16t wide landscape 
buffer and also a six foot high uh wooden   fence along that that that property 
line that that abuts to the residential okay that that buffer requirement and just to 
interject that buffer requirement is required   by code um and the applicant realized that so 
they would have to do that um at the development   review process and we would would confirm you know 
compliance with that code requirement at that time   he show he showed it on his preliminary site plan 
yeah the buffer well you know the current concern   is number one is you've got a u business backing 
up right against homes and that often doesn't have   very happy outcomes and but if I understand 
what you're saying your hours will be from   essentially 7 to 7 if that's true and there's 
not going to be any outside uh entertainment   provision or anything like that with no alcohol 
no no and you won't be serving alcohol all right   board members uh do you have any questions 
uh for the applicant I have two questions um   how will access be off of Archer or off of 29 
it' be off Archer Road and is the property to   be paved hard paved or gravel uh the driveway 
coming in will be paved but the rest will be gravel any more questions from board members Mr chairman I move that we accept staff's 
findings of fact and uh Grant the request   second Mr chairman we have a um uh a motion 
and we also have a second that this uh   request uh petition be granted uh is there any 
further discussion by the board seeing none uh   uh and according to our uh blue slips here 
we have no individuals that wish to speak on   this uh in addition to Mr Campbell given 
that fact uh we've come to the point now   we uh must make a decision all those 
in favor of Mr Smith's motion to Grant   the uh application as presented uh by the 
staff and Mr Campbell please raise your right hand let the record reflect that this petition   was granted unanimously thank 
you sir yes sir thank you for coming we now turn to our second case 
this is 1030 Underwood Avenue 1030 block   Underwood Avenue 1030 Underwood Avenue 
B 80 Underwood Avenue and 213 Douglas   Avenue the request is to allow an outdoor 
Recreational facility uh it's requested by   Patrick jeel uh agent for Pensacola State 
College and uh Pensacola Junior College [Music] owners and do we have the representative can you 
come forward sir and then I say your name right   probably didn't you didn't but nobody does 
it's pronounced yay like you're cheering for   somebody named Lee yay Lee well bear with me 
no problem it's been my whole life you don't   have to worry about it please well sir we're 
glad to have you with us uh please turn and   face the clerk raise your right hand please uh 
give us your name and address for the record   and be sworn in sure my name is Patrick y with 
McKim Creed address is 1206 North palifox pensac   Florida 32501 do you solemly swear and affirm 
that the testimony you're about to give will   be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the 
truth so you gu I do thank you and before we uh   get started sir I have to ask the board are there 
any exp party Communications regarding this case   let the record reflect there are none knowledge or 
information obtained from a site visit it or other sources let the record reflect there are none 
is there any member who intends to refrain from   voting due to a voting conflict of interest let 
the record reflect there are none um would you   like for the staff to make its presentation uh 
or would you prefer to make an opening statement   and follow up it's entirely up to you uh I'll 
allow staff to present and then all right speak   okay can we have stff and on this one I'd 
appreciate that we go through the findings excellent all right thank you again 
board um here we have the location   of the property this is off of Underwood 
um south of Douglas and runs along tippen   quite close to the airport um this is our 500t 
radius zoning map showing that the zoning is commercial and the future land use 
designation of the property is mixed use urban um this is a well head map that shows 
that there's some drinking water well within the vicinity this is an aerial map um 
that shows the subject property here now there were several public 
hearing signs um that were posted   due to the size of the property so this is 
our first one that was posted on Underwood Avenue this is looking North onto the site 
from on Underwood Avenue this is looking North   onto the site from Underwood again this is also 
looking North onto the site from Underwood you uh this is looking North onto the site from 
Underwood it's further down the road this is   looking West along Underwood Avenue and this 
is looking North onto the site that storage   facility appears to be vacant at this time this 
is looking south from the site across Underwood   this is um pirate field you're familiar with the 
area a softball and baseball complex this is also   looking south from site across from Underwood um 
this is looking south of long tippen we also put   a public hearing sign on Douglas Avenue so this is 
looking West along Douglas this is looking South   onto the site from Douglas it appears that this 
house is vacant this is looking North from the   site across Douglas Avenue and we placed another 
sign at the corner of tippen and Underwood there   for public notice so this is looking onto the 
site along tippen and looking South along tippen   Avenue again looking South to kind of get an idea 
the subject property would be to the right there   um and this is looking across Tipp and Avenue from 
the site commercial complex there and looking east   across tippen towards Executive Plaza Drive 
that concludes our photos and maps and if   you'd like I will proceed with staff's findings 
yes sir please yes so the submission um for the   requested conditional use um they are seeking 
a conditional use approval to allow an active   outdoor recreational center facility a soccer 
complex within commercial zoning District um   similar to the first case this outdoor type of use 
of outdoor outdoor activity um requires the board   of adjustment review concerning criteria a general 
compatibility we found that the proposed use of   an out out active outdoor Recreational facility 
can be conducted and operated in a manner that is   compatible with the adjacent properties and other 
properties in the immediate area the property is   surrounded by similar recreational uses to the 
South and Commercial uses in the vicinity there   are a few residential uses north of the subject 
property yet they are separated from the proposed   use by a street RightWay and wooded vacant land 
the subject property is surrounded by Pensacola   State College and the proposed use is compatible 
with Associated indoor and outdoor uses of the   existing educational facility concerning criteria 
B facilities and services according to to the   application the portable water and wastewater 
connections are available from Emerald Coast   Utility Authority facilities and services are 
available and will be provided as needed for the   proposed use and the connections to these services 
will be reviewed at the development review stage   concerning criteria C on-site circulation based 
on the submitted application Ingress and egress   to the site will be utilized from Underwood 
Avenue and is sufficient for the proposed   use as Underwood Avenue is currently used for the 
existing educational and recreational use in the   surrounding area pedestrian access improvements 
are shown on the submitted site plan and will be   required along Underwood Avenue additionally 
a midblock Crossing is proposed and will be   further evaluated by County track transportation 
and traffic operations tto Personnel at the   development review stage criteria D nuisance 
and Hazards we found that outdoor bleacher   seating areas are shown on the prop site plan 
the provisions of the Land Development code do   not allow making of noise or sound that exceeds 
the limits outlined in the LDC or the county no   noise ordinance in addition air pollutants 
glare vibration and other nuisance hazards   are addressed by the LDC and must be met other 
similar outdoor recreational uses are located   in the area the proposed use will be in similar 
scale and intensity as the adjacent properties an   offset nut and hazard are not anticipated by the 
proposed use at this time Criterion e concerning   Solid Waste Solid Waste Service must be provided 
to the site and relevant dumpster enclosure   facilities are shown on the submitted site plan 
all onsite waste containers will be appropriately   located and screened from off-site visibility 
concerning criteria F screening and buffering   as proposed the site does not abut any residential 
uses and therefore screening and buffering of the   propos use is not required Criterion G signs and 
lighting um our findings of fact show that the LDC   requires lighting to be located for safety and 
visual effects and must be installed as night   not to shine directly on adjacent properties in 
public streets R cause annoyance from brightness   and glare signage for the proposed use will 
require applicable sign permits and must   meet all County requirements related to size 
height and location as specified by the LDC   and the building code signs and lighting will 
be evaluated for compliance with a scam County   sign and lighting Provisions during the land use 
review process Criterion H site characteristics   our findings show that the size and shape of 
the site appears adequate to accommodate the   proposed use the site characteristics of the 
proposed use will be in similar intensity of   the surrounding adjacent uses the subject property 
is located in Pensacola Regional Airport height   restriction grid 270 yet the use is not expected 
to exceed any height restrictions Criterion I   use requirements we found that no additional 
use requirements for an outdoor Recreational   facility are specified by the Land Development 
code Provisions um and finally our staff findings   staff recommends approval of the proposed use as 
requested contingent upon site plan review and   approval as applicable that concludes our staff 
findings do we have any questions for the staff seeing none sir would you like to come back 
and could you tell us what you plan or what   is planned for this area yes sir so representing 
pinol State College their primary main campus is   just immediately south of this property on 
Underwood uh the intent here is to develop a   soccer complex which is going to consist of 
essentially a field um some buildings that   are going to support spaces anywhere from 
Train to uh locker rooms to official rooms   and bleachers concessions we will have a small 
parking area to support officials and coaches   primarily but most of the parking is intended 
to be on the south side of Underwood Avenue   um Pensacola State as we all know is a pillar 
of this community and this is just uh request   to help them continue in that role so I will 
say just for the record that educational uses   are allowed in the commercial District the fact 
that we're doing an outdoor recreation use with   this Soccer Complex is what is what's triggered 
the conditional use requests so we've tried to   answer all of the criteria specifically in our 
submitt certainly happy to answer any questions   that y'all may have do we have any questions for 
the applicant I have one what are your expected   operating hours uh I think that's going to vary 
by season there are some representatives of the   school here that probably have a better answer 
to that than I do operating hours have they' been established got to give your name just give your 
name and address okay Ed Meadows 1000 College B   Boulevard um president of pen State College hey 
Mr cin how are you sir I'm good good to have have   you with us today thank you uh sir could you be 
sworn the the AR sir sir oh I'm sorry hi do you   solemly swear that the testimony you're about 
to give will be the truth the whole truth and   nothing but the truth so help you God I do thank 
you as any Athletic Facility the ours operation   will depend upon the the game schedule um this 
area will be lighted so there's a possibility   that there could be uh evening games as there are 
on the baseball field adjacent to this uh property   but most of the games will be played uh during 
the daytime uh there will be um some practice   sessions on the field but we Al we have a a u a 
practice field that's on the other side of underw   Underwood that uh we're currently using for the 
soccer team uh we have only one soccer team it's   a women's soccer team uh but um because of the 
nature this facility there is a possibility that   uh Community clubs that have soccer uh as their 
primary sport would be able to rent the space uh   so it would be um possibly not later than 9:00 at 
night um but certainly during the U the afternoons   and evenings uh and on weekends would also be 
the possibility thank you I have a question um   also this property if my memory serves me is and 
the photographs show there are some awfully big   oak trees there it's a shame if it's just clearcut 
and uh although you can't have soccer fields on   hilly ground I understand that part too but what 
plans has the college made to preserve as many of   those Oaks as possible because it is lovely 
there if I it's been a long time since I've   been through that area but if my memory serves me 
it is yes sir uh we U we own the 25 acre um area   that extends uh from Underwood all the way across 
to tippen and then um all the way up to the strip   mall uh and we have purchased that property with 
the intention of future College development for   facilities uh we have loc we identified one herity 
joke uh that is adjacent to the house that we we   will tear down that belongs to the college and 
so we um our Architects um have U positioned the   soccer field so that the U uh that Oak tray that 
Heritage Oak will be safeguarded in addition to   that uh the college um has the intention of um 
not planting trees back where the soccer field   goes but uh to um as a matter of fact uh we have 
a Cooperative partnership with the city for uh   them to uh to donate trees to us uh this year 
but we uh we continually try to replace trees   on our campus so adjacent to the property um that 
will be developed as a soccer field uh there's an   opportunity for us to Place trees that have been 
uh removed uh for the soccer field but certainly   that one Heritage Oak that we have uh will be in a 
um a good location uh for uh its preservation all   right sir okay thank you very much we appreciate 
your testimony do we have any more questions all   right thank you sir yes I have a uh can we go 
back to the slides uh to the Wellhead slide SL this development isn't going to impact 
uh the Wellhead this area is it it is not   and that's something that'll be verified by 
EA through review but as far as groundwater   resources the soccer fields a pretty low 
intensity use others that might come into   this commercial District could potentially have 
a higher risk to it but uh given where we are in   the well head there will be Wellhead protection 
Zone excuse me there may be restrictions on the   storm water management systems that we're 
allowed to design and again that will all   be confirmed with both ECUA and County staff as 
we go through the development order process but   from a groundwater resources perspective a grass 
soccer field with relatively small buildings and   bleachers as a pretty low intensity use yeah if 
I remember right there's a ECUA well there is   right there at the uh well near the across from 
Sunny where the fire station is uh it's indicated   on that map at Underwood and Ninth yeah so right 
there down the street yes sir and uh Lord knows we   don't need any water quality issues certainly not 
interested in causing those do we have any more questions all right any 
speakers oh yeah we do thank you sir Mr metas Dr medas has been with us and uh Mr 
David alsa did do you wish to speak David do you   want to say anything that's the architect for the 
project I think he's all right opting out good are   is there anyone else who hasn't given us a blue 
form that would like to to speak now would be your opportunity let the record reflect that 
there are no others and all speakers have   been accounted for thank you sir we appreciate 
your uh assistance Mr chairman I'm move that   we accept staff's findings of fact and Grant 
the conditional use a second Mr chairman we   have a motion by Mr Smith with a second and 
is there any further board discussion on this project I think it'll be my personal 
opinion is I think it'll be a real   boom to the area and we certainly want 
to do all we can to support uh PSC U   since it is such an important part of 
our community given that all those in   favor of this application please raise your 
right hand let the record reflect this pass unanimously okay give everyone a chance to settle down 
a minute uh since we do have uh a number of   speakers I mean a number so but having said that 
it is wonderful to have so many people come out   to express their opinion uh because the board 
is always anxious to know what uh the thinking   of uh the community is on any particular 
issue we will now turn to case number 20 24-14 5595 Highway 995a the request is to allow 
a Bor pit within 1,000 ft of a residential use   uh it's requested by Jeremiah J talit attorney for 
for Andrew J Patterson uh the owner and I am under   the impression that we have attorneys here in 
this matter am I correct yes sir you are cor all   right I would ask that all the attorneys that are 
involved before we get into the mechanics of this   thing could you please just come to the podium 
make your appearance for the purposes of the record Jeremiah talin on behalf 
of the petitioner Mr Patterson welcome I'm Philip Bater on behalf of uh 
Connors and Connor Holdings an opponent   of this particular application and 
I have with me my colleague Sarah Walton hi good morning my name is SAR Walton yes 
ma'am and you are an also an attorney ma'am yes   sir I an attorney I'm with Philip Bates and with 
Connors and Connor reality okay thank you very   much uh and I think that takes care of all our 
attorneys it makes it easier on the clerk who   uh has to keep track of these things and I see we 
have a court reporter and I hope that helps him   also uh first of all welcome everyone as I said 
thank you so very much when we get to receiving   uh testimony since we have so many uh not that 
that's a bad thing but there are a lot of things   and I know people have other things to do today 
besides being here so I uh attentively the board's   policy is to let everyone speak and we try to 
let everyone speak uh uh to the extent it's not   repetitious uh as to get your full feelings 
about a particular uh uh question but given   that and given the number of people that we 
have I think today we initially try to limit   our when we get to this point in the proceeding uh 
our speakers to three minutes and I would say if   if someone else has said your thoughts uh uh it's 
not necessarily for the board to hear a repetition   of the same thing uh you can simply indicate that 
you've uh you agree or or whatever uh but at any   rate again thank you all so very much for coming 
and we are now going uh to begin board uh has   there been expart Communications in this case let 
the record reflect there have not is there anyone   who has knowledge or in or information 
obtained from a site visit or are other sources let the record reflect there are none ask 
if any uh is any board member intending to refrain   from voting due to a voting conflict of interest 
and we do have one and Willie would you like to   now enter in your uh recusal yes sir um I filled 
out a form 88b um and I will be refraining from   voting and um I am I Willie Kirkland Jr hereby 
disclosed on August 21st 2024 um and it has um   section A A measure came or will come before 
my agency which you supposed to check one and   I checked um insured to to my special private gain 
or loss um section B the measure before my agency   and the nature of my conflic and interest in the 
measures is as follows and um I'm the owner of um   WC Kirkland Trucking and my trucks and my drivers 
from time to time um visit pits um in the area um   I feel it's a conflict of interest um to vote on 
this matter um and I would not be voting on this   matter but um I you know I will be engaging in 
our conversation if need to be um on this matter   this time okay thank you uh please let the 
record uh reflect now that the board does   have a quorum uh for uh with the uh recusal 
on the record so we thank Mr Kirkland for   that uh okay uh why don't we uh Mr Mr talot I 
think you're representing the applicant Mr tal   you're uh as you probably have already heard if 
you'd like to make a uh brief opening statement   we'd be happy to hear it or uh you would uh 
we would be happy to get the uh County's uh   findings on on the record uh first then we'll 
be glad to do that and then of course you f   can follow up and then we will take it from there 
as to I'm sure there'll be questions and U we'll   see where that leads us we'll go ahead and let 
the staff present make their presentation first   and then we all address it from there okay 
thank you sir all right sir yes sir let's   let us hear the yes yes sir Phil yes sir curious 
need to qualify our expert before the hearing   starts or is that something you want to take 
up later I didn't realize you had one so that's   a good I'm I appreciate you Rising now before 
we get too deep into our testimony uh Bard I'm   sorry sir if I may oh could could I just just 
a moment and I will give you full Reign I know   you're going to have some thoughts yes sir uh for 
this is a situation where uh I didn't realize and   I don't think any of us did we are going to have 
I presume by Mr Bates in the opposition an expert   will profer uh credentials on some sub some 
subject matter relating to this uh Mr Bates has   raised a question do we wish to hear his experts 
credentials now or would we would it be better to   hear this uh testimony when we get to whatever the 
subject matter of his expertise is in Mr tala's   case I'm sure Mr Tal's going to raise a point 
that this expert is going to try to rebuff am   I correct Mr Mr Bates am I correct I'm sure that I 
don't know if he'll have obje to the qualification   of our expert and the only reason I brought 
it up is because I recall in Prior hearings   that the board took it up before we got started I 
just wanted to make sure I didn't wait no when we   do it as long as pleasure and Mr Tober I know you 
had thoughts so uh could we hear yours yes sir my   concern mainly or the initial concern is that this 
is a petition brought by my client to the board   certainly anyone has their right to stand up here 
and have their three minutes in talk and express   their position to the board but what I don't want 
to happen is that this be a bunch of people and uh   the opposing side as an attorney so now they get 
to present an infinite number of witnesses they   get to present experts they get to go beyond 
that they get to cross-examined essentially   it's I don't think the process should work that 
way and does work that way because then limiting   anybody in the public to only three minutes but 
allowing another uh objector to have unlimited   time to ask questions and present evidence 
I think is inappropriate okay so but I think   they can three minutes is somebody to testify on 
that behalf if they have an expert that wants to   give his opinion that's a different that's an 
issue he gets limited to 3 minutes but it's not   three minutes everybody else and this side gets 
unlimited time it's it's my client petitioning   to the board and the board here's the evidence 
here's what citizens say and makes a decision   yes sir I understand what you're saying uh and uh 
at this point I'd like to hear from the board uh   may may I first just remind you of the rules of 
procedure that are memorialized in the resolution   that applies to these proceedings and they state 
in section 5.8 all interested parties must be   afforded the opportunity to present evidence 
cross-examine Witnesses and be informed of all   the facts upon which the board acts an interested 
party would be someone such as a neighbor someone   withstanding who could could appeal your decision 
and so there are due process issues um so just   keep that in mind and uh since we uh have 
representation essentially from at least   one objector that means that that person would 
be allowed to present their argument of course that's a question yes yes ma'am well as 
stated in the resolution all interested   parties must be afforded the opportunity to 
present evidence and cross-examine Witnesses yes so it looks uh I'll tell you what why 
don't we uh do this uh board members do we   want to go ahead and see what kind of expert 
we have here and whether or not they qualify   I think we need uh to see that all right sir and 
declare that first if we're going to accept the   witness all right sir all right uh Mr Bates you 
want to bring your well I'll just Mr Mar come   up uh Mr Merill has qualified as an expert for 
this group uh the last two times we've argued   this particular issue his curriculum V is exhibit 
17 in our materials which we submitted yesterday   in accordance with your rules Mr Merill is a 
licensed professional engineer and as I said   previously has twice before been qualified as 
an expert by this panel uh if the panel has any   questions regarding his expertise number one I'd 
be somewhat surprised but number two uh I if to   the extent his curriculum V which is exhibit 
17 does not address those I'm sure Mr Merill   could respond I would examine Mr Merill but I 
I suggest that the time constraints that would   not be a good use of our time unless someone 
has a concern about whether he is indeed an expert sir could you uh face the clerk 
uh give us your name and address and   be sworn in yes sir uh William 
Merill 1164 fence Drive GF Bridge   do you solemnly swear and affirm that 
the testimony you're about to give will   be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the 
truth I'll be God I do thank you sir m e r r i l l and Sir what is your expertise that you would 
like the board to be aware of well as mentioned   the last two times I was qualified as expert at 
relied on both civil engineering and land planning   experience I believe County staff here can attest 
to the the the work I've done in the last 30 years   in the um both land planning and civil engineering 
aspect um can you tell us a little bit about your   education and your well you mentioned some of your 
experience just briefly uh yes uh I'm a licensed   civil engineer I was um almost 25 years in the 
State of Florida um I graduated Auburn University   in 1994 I've worked almost exclusively in civil 
engineering and Land Development since then   including owning um a business here in Pensacola 
and one in Gul Breeze that that that primarily   works with Land Development all right sir Mr 
Bates what will you be offering uh Mr Merill   for Mr Merl will be testifying about the specifics 
with respect to this application in terms of the   proximity of it to other relevant geographic 
features also its characteristics in terms   of what is proposed in terms of both the pit the 
features of the proposed pit and other matters as   he has testified to again previously before you in 
particular and this board also the last two times   um in the past the past two times uh we 
haven't gone this far in terms of qualifying   him as an expert I think the staff generally 
recognized and did not have any objection to   his uh qualifications as expert I'm going 
to have him testify about what this pit is   going to do what it looks like in terms of uh 
borrow pits where is it in relationship to Res   es Wells Wetlands those kinds of things also he will testify about provisions of the 
Land Development code the similarity of this   application to the other two the uh likely 
duration of the pit operation the existence   or not of any feble buffer and the proposed or 
feasibility of the proposed Reclamation those   are things that I believe the county staff which 
has been qualified or unqualifiedly qualified as   an expert are also testifying so I would say 
those that's the subject matter okay Mr cha   you honor I I think very specifically or I say 
your honor I apologize um you don't just qualify   somebody say they're an expert you have to be an 
expert in specific issues and specific experience   okay there's no question that he is an expert as 
a civil engineer all right however some of these   other items they want to talk about the Wetland 
development items uh approxim to Wells stuff of   that nature is not necessarily with is purview 
Land Development is not El with his per viw as   a civil engineer he has Authority there however 
they're able to that within three minutes like   everybody else is limited to here then I think 
he he's just a witness he's essentially somebody   from the uh that's uh to present testimony behalf 
the board okay and so I do not think that the one   of the important points is is he limited to 
three minutes because he is because they're   not a party to this case he's just like anybody 
else here that's GNA uh speak and we don't want   to get this into a circus and an hour for 
every person who wants to stand up here and   so um I think that's some some of the important 
characteristics we have to address Mr Godin if I   could elaborate Mr talot could not be more wrong 
about the prerogative of my client to appear and   speak the assistant County attorney alluded to 
resolution of the board of County Commissioners   which establishes the procedural protocol for 
this group and among other things we have the   right to present Witnesses we have the right 
to cross-examine the applicant's witnesses we   have the right to present expert testimony all of 
that is set forth in resolution number r96 d34 in   March 1996 and that has been the procedure that 
has been followed by this board of adjustment at   least the last two times that Mr patteron has 
made this application Mr talot simply has not   read or does not appreciate what the county 
attorney or assistant County attorney alluded   to earlier and that is we are not limited to three 
minutes we have the absolute due process right in   front of a quazi Judicial proceeding to present 
our side of this case and our Council does not   understand the law all right what is going 
on here is he wants to say he has infinite   time to intervene in this case but every one 
of these people are limited to three minutes   something about him is so special that he gets 
to stand up here he can present testimony but   if these people are limited then so should he 
as a person as a representative as an objector   we don't want to get this into a circus so that 
we because each one of these people could bring   their own attorney and present a 50 Witnesses and 
cross examine is that what we want to go into I   don't think so all right because if you say they 
have a right to cross-examine Witnesses and then   so does everybody else okay so I'm aware of the 
Quasi judicial process all right but they should   be limited like anybody else it doesn't say you 
can't you're limited to three minutes okay it says   or should it doesn't say they can't present their 
testimony within three minutes but they don't get   an empty time to do this and to turn this into a 
service and that's exactly what they're trying to do Mr chairman it would appear that uh the board 
is going to need to declare an expert witness on   more than one topic that's not usually the 
case and uh it may be such that we declare   uh an expert based on desired testimony of the I think uh Smith raises a a good a good 
point I I've also was had some thoughts along   the same line I don't know what we can declare 
him an expert in in until we actually get into   the testimony and he's offered some testimony on 
some subject matter uh I mean I have no doubt in   my mind uh it's been a while I of course 
have gotten the exact uh record from the   last appearance I know that he was declared Ed 
a an expert I see no reason why he would not be   declared an expert again as to the subject 
matter uh he certainly in my opinion is an   expert in civil engineering now whether or not 
these other things that Mr Bates has brought   up uh these are specific topics that uh we have 
gotten to we haven't heard Mr Tal's presentation   on those and uh at that point I don't know 
how we can declare him anything other than   an expert in civil engineering and we'll see 
this is my thoughts uh we could see where that   takes us when we get to the actual testimony that 
being the case does County have any objection to   to the credentials of Mr Merill County does 
not have an objection to Mr Merill he's uh   in addition to the two previous show cases here 
concerning this uh he's worked with us for years   and has testified behind before this board 
on multiple as an expert on multiple other cases um I think that and I would like and I would 
like as director and I would like to to support   what you were saying definitely definitely 
in the area of storm waterer management he   has presented plans to the county certified 
PE engineering plans for the county he had   made other presentation to the planning board 
and the in the area of storm water management   Design Systems staff definitely concur with that 
in the area of storm water management and Design   Systems he exp planning board we other resoning 
cases clearly and defly the staff support that   area of expertise and that area of subject 
matter Mr chairman uh Mr chairman I'm old   um I think maybe that Mr Smith that uh I 
would be uh glad to hear a motion to uh   approve uh and accept Mr Merill as an expert in 
civil engineering and let's see where it goes   from there and I would like to make that 
motion second we have a motion in a second   uh to accept Mr Merrill as an expert in civil 
engineering and we will when he testifies on   whatever subject matter we can weigh it at 
that point uh if that's agreeable with the board all right all those in favor of 
this motion please raise your right hand   all right let the record reflect M Merl will we 
will accept you as an expert and civil engineer   thank you Mr chairman okay does anyone remember 
before we uh get again into this in the last   hearing or the hearing before uh did Mr B 
did your client appear or did you intervene   formally my client filed I filed on my behalf 
and on my clients's behalf and those appearance   before this group both this time and the last two 
times it's not an intervention it's an appearance   you so you never filed a motion to intervene in 
no motion to intervene is required okay the the   the resolution and I I didn't put it in evence 
I don't believe it's uh the resolution yes it   did it's item 16 which is the rules for this 
administrative hearing by the by the board of   County Commissioners I'm let them know allows 
us to do precisely what we're doing we're not   it's not an intervention so okay um we've had 
these before and often the times there would   be a motion to intervene that's fine I I just 
couldn't remember where or not you did it m Mr   chairman this isn't an administrative appeal case 
this is strictly a conditional use I know that   in the past we've had this kind of thing come up 
before all right uh thank you m I appreciate your   thoughts could we hear from the staff we're 
talking about something that uh we haven't   really uh heard the particulars about and I don't 
think we can go forward until we actually get uh   uh exactly on the record what what the matter is 
before us all right Andrew yes sir Andrew Homer uh   scambia County development services department 
this is conditional use case 202 24-14 here we   have our location map the red outline showing the 
uh petitioner's property it's located there along   North Highway 95 5A which is a collector Road 
here we have a zoning map for our site um the   parcel in question is Zone agriculture you see 
the parcels immediately to the north and south   are both zoned agriculture so for each zoning 
District you have your permitted uses and you   have your conditional uses this is somewhat unique 
uh you know it has all your regular permitted egg   uses anything agriculture livestock whatever 
is just permitted outright uh borrow pits as   long as they meet certain requirements are 
permitted outright the situation here and I   will go into it in the findings is there's 
another section of the code related borrow   pits that requires this conditional use process 
if it is proposed to be within a th000 feet of a residence this is our future land use 
map showing it his rural community area   map of the site showing the 
wetlands off to the uh West   public hearing sign posted on site 
looking into the uh the parcel from 995a uh looking North along 95a looking East from the driveway of the subject property and that's looking South along 95a 
and that concludes the photographs um as to   the findings in this matter I'll pull that up so 
the applicant um has submitted their package and   their their exhibits uh as they are the applicant 
uh requesting a conditional use to allow for a   borrow pit within a th000 feet of residential 
uses in zoning as I explained um that provision   under a different section of the code it's 
47.6 um and you can see it's up there under the   relevant Authority as to the specific criteria for 
conditional uses first one is dealing with General   compatibility this proposed use is in an area of 
mixed residential and agriculture uses as proposed   the operation will have higher buffering standards 
than those required by the Land Development code   The increased buffering and strict adherence to 
the LDC requirements for hours of operation and   dust suppression will allow for compatibility with 
the adjacent uses for the period of active mining   while the proposed Reclamation for the site 
is a lake and residential home the proposed   Reclamation must be approved by the bardy County 
Commissioners prior to the commencement of mining   this will require a full sight plan review through 
the development Review Committee in adherence   to all LD C and code of ordinance standards 
including those outside the authority of the   boa B facilities and services the services needed 
for operation of a pit will be provided by the   operator as proposed the operation will not need 
the use of a portable water supply or a sewage   system information obtained by the applicant 
indicates there are no public pable Wells within   500 ft of the parcel this was confirmed by a staff 
search of the Florida Department of Environmental   Protection online mapping system on-site 
circulation a proposed driveway connecting to   North Highway 995a should be sufficient to service 
the proposed use the trucks accessing the site   would use the road in a similar manner as those 
servicing other pits and Industrial sites in the   area nuisances and Hazards nuisances associated 
with a mining operation can be alleviated through   strict adherence to the development standards 
imposed by the LDC in the county code of   ordinances chapter 42 during the active mining 
period these standards will be imposed during the   DRC process along with BCC Reclamation approval 
solid waste any Solid Waste Services required   will be provided by the operator screening and 
buffering the LDC contains use specific setbacks   screening and buffering requirements in section 
7-4 4.6 the proposed site plan shows a 25- ft   natural vegetative buffer around most of the pit 
widening to 50 on the southern border this will be   supplemented by fencing and additional plantings 
as required through the site plan review process   signs and lighting the proposal for this pit 
details an entry sign with hours of operation   and contact information the only other signage 
will be no trespassing signs as directed by the   LDC no lighting was included in this proposal 
site characteristics the overall parcel size is   52.85 Acres with 44 plus or minus Acres proposed 
for the pit the submitted site plan shows the pit   centered on The Wider portion of the parcel and 
uphill from the wetlands to the West the site   appears adequate for the use as proposed with the 
enhanced buffering use requirements conditional   use requirements for borrow pit are found in LDC 
chapter 4 article 7 um these are dealing with the   nature of it um you know it's sites requiring 
access from adequately wide paved roads U   they're on a collector Road there are no local 
streets that would be used the scale intensity   of operation shall not generate unreasonable noise 
TR odors traffic dust or other potential nuisances   we've covered how that that is going to be handled 
and uh details for that will be enforced during   site plan review we've got the applicant did 
submit a boundary survey and description of   anticipated excavation phases and they meet 
the other assorted additional requirements as   you can see there when we come down to e it does 
point out conditional use approval pursuant to   this subsection does not wave an applic duty to 
meet other County state or federal per permitting   requirements or performance standards and F there 
you see where we find the reason why we're here   today it is within a th000 ft of a residential 
use additional standards regulating Mining and   Reclamation activities are found within the 
code of ordinances in chapter 82 and 42 while   these additional standards are outside the boa 
scope they will be reviewed and applied during   the permitting process as to the findings 
staff recommends approval of the conditional   use as submitted with the enhanced buffering as 
detailed on the submitted site plan DRC site plan   approval and BCC approval of the Reclamation 
plan are required and that concludes staff's findings thank you sir uh does the 
board have any questions at this point uh Mr talat would you like to uh make a 
presentation I would like to cross-examine oh you   would like cross-examine staff briefly okay go sir 
I just want to emphasize a couple points number   one you said it's zoned agricultural correct that 
is correct and under the Land Development code has   the board of County Commissioners presented or 
identified whether burrow pits or permissible   in agricultural areas yes they have so 
the bccc has already determined that   if we have a burrow pit and it's in an area 
larger than 20 acres it is permissible with   this exception for conditional use with a th000 
foot now you mentioned a collector Road what is   a collector road so we have different levels 
of Roads can you go back to the location map please and can you get to that yeah if you 
could zoom in on the Legend somewhat bottom   corner so roads are um defined through our 
system and with fdot by their use um you have   your principal and minor arterial roads these 
are usually your your main traffic carriers   then you have collectors collector roads 
and local roads local roads are your local   streets the houses are off of collectors are 
fed by the local streets and they then feed   arterial roads and The Collector Road 
in this situation is Highway 95a that   is correct State Highway or Federal Highway I 
believe it's state okay I would have to check   that I it is there already commercial vehicles 
operating on this uh this prop this street yes   sir it's a collector Road for that side of that 
Northern side of the county there so anything com   off driveways anyone going north or south is 
going to be feeding to that would that include   dumb trucks yes sir okay if we can if staff 
can go to the picture looking south of the sign I think that's it one up up there we go 
yes if you look in the very back left you I   know what that is in the back left I I'd have 
to get it zoomed in I'm sorry I see a vehicle   um some sort and does it appear to be a 
dump truck can you zoom in okay yes okay   yes it does appear to be and uh at least this 
picture evidences that dump trucks use this   Pro this road and definitely when y'all 
happen to take this picture correct yes sir there there's other vehicles as well I mean 
obviously you have cars um vehic vcle servicing   agricultural uses in the area garbage trucks 
school buses lots of large Vehicles because   it's the collector Road for that area yes sir 
and you said that the usage they would not   have to go through residential roads in order 
to access this road or access this property   that is correct okay sir you mentioned the 
buffering the buffering that is proposed in   this case is wider than what is under the LDC 
that's correct it is uh on the South Side there   okay and that would help protect any issues or 
any potential problems that could arise because   of using this property correct that is the 
function of a buffer yes sir now sir my client   has indicated that he wants to use after he digs 
this pit he wants to use this as a a pond is that   correct correct and there are other ponds in this 
area aren't there yes okay he is not planning to   bury anything toxic there construction waste yard 
debris anything of that nature is that correct the   proposal is to the Reclamation to be a lake but 
once again that does require BCC final approval   yes sir all right but I just want to make sure 
that if somebody has passed out flyers indicating   that they were going to put toxic or somehow uh 
put dorus uh items into the ground that would be   incorrect pursuant to the plans correct that is 
not what was submitted okay as well if this board   to approve my client's request it would still 
require DRC approval correct yes sir you would   still have to go through the board in uh bccc 
correct that is correct you'd also be able to   subject to regulation by the county on a yearly 
basis let me step back one okay it does require   DRC it requires BCC approval for the Reclamation 
plan the board of adjustment can approve the of   the land which is what we're here for sorry didn't 
mean to and at least if this is approved then the   county will regulate my client correct that is 
correct he is submitting asking for the county   to regulate his use of this property correct 
yes sir and that would be subject to popping   in and looking to see what he's doing correct 
we do inspect yes yes we do and that would be   subject to this would be a what four or fiveyear 
permit I believe at this time it's a five-year permit nothing further okay yes Mr Homer Hello nice to see you again 
were you uh the staff presenter for the   first Hearing in 2021 yes I was all 
right I just I knew you were in 202   I didn't recall if it was 2021 also I remember 
I wouldn't say fondly what is the difference   what is the difference in the size of the pit 
or the size of the parcel of land on which the   pit is to be located in the current application 
as distinct from the prior two applications I'm   just going with the current one no but I mean 
it's the same siiz pit is it not I believe so   I'd have to go look at the case files from the 
previous ones but I believe it's the exact same   plan same size pit on the same size partial of 
property yes sir okay um how many residences   are within a th000 ft of this parcel or this 
proposed pit I don't know um the application   says one does it not or the staff analysis 
says one I don't recall mentioning just one no sir U with respect to this parcel um do you 
just look at a joining Parcels or do you look   at Parcels within a larger vicinity of the pit 
in determining whether or not it is consistent   with the prior existing permitted uses sure the 
general area okay have you been out there I have   um have you gone on the property as distinct 
from looked at the property from the road no   sir I have not gone on the property have you been 
out to um the the property I guess would be on the   northwest no sir other adjoining residences no 
uh with respect to this par particular borrow   pit operation it is going to be 40 to 60 ft deep 
is that correct I would have to go back and count   the Contours but I believe so and that would 
be over a what a 44 acre tract of pit por yes   portion of the parcel about 80% of this property 
is going to be the pit right that is correct okay   how long will it take to excavate 44 Acres 60 
feet down that's going to depend on the market   I believe the proposal is to sell the dirt um if 
the housing market slows down it could slow down   that process so we don't know how long this 
borrow pit will be in operation no sir do we   know uh with respect to the Reclamation plan 
do we know who drafted it I do not do you know   whether or not the applicant is a limited 
liability company or an individual I do not   would that make a difference to you in terms of a 
Reclamation plan no sir why not Reclamation plan   is not this board's purview that's the bcc's isn't 
the board's purview to determine the compatibility   of this application with residential use of 
the land uses in the area yes it that's why   it's a conditional use there is no point in 
asking about Reclamation if it's not within   the purview of this board is it the Reclamation 
plan is simply that a plan that was submitted as   part of their application okay but you submit the 
plan to the board are they just supposed to ignore   it is that a component of all this that is just 
surplusage so I did mention there are other parts   of the borrow pit and Reclamation process that are 
outside the purview of the board of adjustment um   the Reclamation plan is something that has to be 
done okay the BCC mandates you're going to dig a   hole you're going to need to tell us how you're 
going to fill it up grade it down what you're   going to do at the end and uh that's goes to the 
the BCC that's why it's kind of it it crosses both   it's part of the application they have to propose 
one it's not the final accepted one until the BCC   signs off all right so when when they're asking 
about having a a lake in a house at whatever   time in the future they get through operating 
the borrow pit that's just ethereal it's their   proposal at this point it could change tomorrow 
could it not it could be mandated to be changed   by the BCC sure or they could elect to change it 
if conditional use approval is granted by this   board the use of the borrow pit would be allowed 
on that property okay again the reclamation   plan as proposed would have to get final approval 
from the BCC what I'm saying is and we're talking   about two different things this Reclamation plan 
has been submitted and we're told they want to   have a a residence in a lake uh but that's not a 
condition of the approval of the uh conditional   use is it no because that final Authority isn't 
with this board all right so why is this board   told what the Reclamation plan is is it just 
irrelevant but we submit it anyway it's giving   this board The Proposal kind of like in a rezoning 
all right rezonings are not site plan specific   someone could come in and say Hey I want to build 
a a Chick-fil-A um until the once the zoning gets   approved anything Allowed by that zoning could go 
in there so it's it's one of these things that's a   background item for the board so they can get a 
look at what is proposed um if the applicant is   an LLC uh or the owner is an LLC do you know what 
an LLC is limited liability company and it's of   indefinite duration I don't believe so okay space 
we're getting a little bit of well I'm trying to   get to the I'm we're getting a little bit of f 
here okay uh uh and as to the Reclamation plan   if my memory serves me right in the last hearing 
the matter of the Reclamation plan came up and   uh there was some photographs profited of it and 
the board voted not to consider that particular uh   submission so we understand that it's part of the 
protocol but it's not within anything that we have   uh control over and I I appreciate you're trying 
to build your case and honestly I do but I think   some of your questions to Mr Homer are better 
set to the uh Mr Talbot's expert or Mr Talbot's   witness I mean as far as I'm concerned Mr Godwin 
I'll stop with the question question s having to   do with the Reclamation plan if this Court's not 
or this board is not going to consider it that's   fine we as I said I don't want to I want to give 
you the opportunity to explore whatever Avenues   you deem necessary but I'm I've sat here and I've 
listened to your questions a lot of them to Mr   Homer are the kind of things I would anticipate 
you would want to put to whoever Mr talet is   going to offer I don't know who he's going to 
offer if anyone so I'm trying to determine I   understand that the staff constitutes an expert 
and that the staff has made a recommendation I'm   trying to faret out the predicate for the 
staff's opinion and I I apologize if I've   gone too deep into the weeds yes sir well you 
know you just might ask that sometimes the some   times the simplest way out of the bar and 
door is to open it so uh one I will ask what   buffering what buffering do you contemplate 
as the prerequisite to the conditional use approval I'm sorry at this point they're proposing 
fencing as required by the code and and leaving   the natural vegetation that will be reviewed in 
DRC and may need to be supplemented will natural   vegetation buffer dust it's vegetation if it's 
trees trees are pretty tall what I'm getting to   is that the pit is the same distance from my 
client's property as it has been in the two   prior applications and what you're saying is 
they're going to put a up and they are going   to have natural vegetation and I'm asking you as 
the staff expert is that going to be sufficient   to keep dust over the term of this particular 
operation from going on adjoining properties   we will probably be requiring additional dust 
suppression measures once again these are based   on natural events the amount of dust you got 
coming off of construction sight well we've   been pretty dry for a while a truck driving across 
dirt is going to stir up dust if we've had a rainy   season not so much in terms of this G this board's 
task of determining the compatibility of a borrow   pit to the adjoining plural residential locations 
including at least two of buding this property you   have said this is going to be the staff approves 
this one because of additional buffering and in   fact from what you've said there's no additional 
buffering at all all there is is a change in the   line on the map right buffering is based 
on width and do you think that as I recall your general compatibility findings MH the operation will have higher buffering standards 
than those required by the Land Development code   The increased buffering and strict adherence 
to LDC requirements for hours of operation and   dust suppression will allow for compatibility 
with adjacent uses what exactly is going to be   the dust suppression system that is going to 
make this compatible that's supression would   consist primarily of spraying down the the dirt 
when it gets too dry is there a water access on   this property as I recall there were was no 
water on this property I believe they would   have to sink a well have they done that I do not 
know is sinking a well going to be a condition   of this being a sufficient dust suppressant as 
part of the conditional use or are we talking Dr   see Mr we're going in circles here Mr chairman 
uh just a sec Mr space I with I don't like to   do this but you're asking questions now that the 
applicant should be answering and I don't know   that how Mr Homer is going to know about a well 
he's this is not his project why why don't you   this particular excuse me Mr Godwin the staff has 
told this group in 2021 that they didn't think it   was consistent with the approved residential use 
and the board voted consistent with the staff the   next year the staff came back and said no we think 
it's now consistent with that use and this board   voted six to nothing against that position 
talking about the very criteria that staff   had discussed then and today staff is once again 
saying they think this is consistent with and okay   and is not going to be a problem for an adjoining 
residence and that's just not true they don't have   any they are supposed to give you findings of fact 
and they have no predicate for giving you findings   of fact they don't know what is going to happen 
no one does that's quite a bit of assumptions   you're making M Mr Homer Mr sorry yes sir uh 
my point is that you're the line of question   I and I appreciate your goal I truly do but what 
you're asking him in my opinion is questions that   should be in Mr Talbot's uh applicant and then 
uh the applicant is going to know whether or not   there's a well there I would hope and whether and 
what plans he has for dust suppression those kind   of of of questions I honestly would submit to you 
belong to him now Mr Homer is giving you answers   that as best I can tell some are just generic uh 
you know trees hold dust well that's true but that   doesn't talk about the trees that we're concerned 
about the buffering and they don't see trees yeah   or bushes or whatever so but this recommendation 
is what your board is going to be relying upon and   making its decision well this recommendation 
is uninformed that is true and not true it is   true that our board takes these recommendations 
seriously but we our job is to give both sides   or if there is a controversy uh the applicant 
a full and fair Hearing in which all evidence   is accepted and we weigh that evidence and do our 
best to apply the law as we understand it and and   as I said right now I would just ask you to you 
have a full right to examine of course Mr Homer   but I would ex you would it would seem to me 
things that he doesn't really know about and   is just giving you a generic answer for is not 
what we're here about Mr taltz it's his burden   to tell you all about Wells and dust and traffic 
and whatever else he wants to talk about and then   then you have the opportunity to cross him or 
his representative so again your your honor I'm   I'm falling into the same trap we're used to 
addressing judges uh I don't mean calling you   your honor to be a pejorative no no that's all 
right I've been called worse truly I have Mr Mr   Godwin what I'm trying to say is is that staff's 
quote expert opinion close quote is nothing more   than just an unsupported conclusion okay well 
if you want to ask questions like that that's   different well in order to establish that I've 
got to show that the witness doesn't know yeah   these underlying facts you know if I can that's 
not this is to determine if the per committ the   use is going to be permitted they have the DRC 
which is going to sit down and make the decisions   and talk about how many trees how big a trees 
how of a buffer that's the decision of the next   committee that's true and that's not for this to 
try to beat up on this witness to try to because   they don't have the exact plan of what's going 
to go how many trees what color trees or there be   flowering trees that can bloom in the summer and 
the winter that's what he's trying to do that's   the next committee they will address it there not 
here well that's you're you're correct but also   it's the applicants burden to talk about those 
things uh at least in generalities I've taken up   some of your time and I apologize if you'd like to 
continue I apologize this is what we went through   the last couple of times I thought we'd have to go 
through it again if if what this group is saying   is that staff's uh conclusions are not supported 
by underlying facts that the staff is aware of   in reaching those conclusions that changes the 
complexion of what we're doing no I'm not saying   that I'm just saying that this board is an 
independent body that makes its own decisions   based upon all the evidentiary submissions from 
every uh individual or applicant and the staff   and we take that and we decide okay and that's 
all that that's my point and uh other than it is   my dedicated job to make sure that everyone that 
appears before us gets a full and fair hearing   and is able to uh Express whatever thoughts and 
issues that they may possess or he or she may   possess all right with some trepidation 
then if I may proceed yes sir I've got   to ask about the wells uh did staff consider 
private Wells can we pull up the fdp exhibit please yeah uh that one first so this right 
here uh as you can see is a zoomed in map of   the area this is from the Florida Department of 
Environmental Protection for public water supply   Wells there are none I asked you about private 
Wells yes next photo okay sorry to interrupt you   private Wells from generalized uh data from fdp 
I don't see any on there that's in their permit   records now we did go through this before in the 
previous exhibition um there is a code section   north of 196 discussing protections for public 
portable water supply Wells there was a question   at that time did that language apply to private 
Wells there was an interpretation made in 2022 by   our department director as in keeping with the 
Land Development code that that that section   applies to public pable water supply Wells 
you recall that you and I went through odd   the definitional oh we did okay and you 
recall that the particular portion of   Wellhead protection that applies to private 
Wells north of barau Park Road is not cited   in the interpretive opinion that was given 
to the to the staff is that correct that is   correct okay so when it says any Wells north of 
bar Baro Park Road do do not have the benefit   of a 7-year time of travel mode shall have 
a 500t radi Rus Zone if that applies and   if my client has a well within a few feet of 
this site does that preclude approval by this group I don't have any record of permits 
associated with that well I'm I'm asking   I can't consider things that the state says they 
don't have a record of there is testimony that you   heard twice before from at least two different 
adjoining land owners testifying that they have   wells on their property my question to you it is 
perhaps a hypothetical but if those Wells do in   fact exist and they are private Wells and they 
are within 500 ft of this pit the conditional   use cannot be approved under the existing LD LDL 
again with let the applicant Please Mr tal has   this is a irrelevant issue because the definition 
in this regulation has already been inter reted   by the director that was not appealed so therefore 
that finding is is established so there cannot be   another argument that oh it happens to a private 
well that happened to be unpermitted that uh we   happen to just maybe feed to our horses it's our 
it's irrelevant to this matter the statute talks   about Wellhead protection area and defines 
pable public uh Wells okay and the well well   Fields again the director has interpreted it it's 
rata they can't read mitigate that issue um as Mr   homman testified Mr Godwin the interpretive 
provision did not apply to what I'm asking   about once again as a hypothetical if there is 
a private well with under within 500 ft of this   project is it susceptible approval under 4-5 .9 C 
restrictions let me look that up this is actually   B3 in fact if you would turn to exhibit 13 maybe 
we could get exhibit 13 that we've submit it up there you have an that hasn't been accepted yet 
okay where are we now what uh can we get a ruling   upon this rule section 4- 5.9 Wellhead protection 
that is within the same chapter as the definition   of Wellhead in the Wellhead protection area has 
already been interpreted maybe not this individual   section but the definition and the application 
of section 4-5 has already been interpreted   and so therefore him trying to ignore everything 
previously in the section is not proper and it's   a waste of this time that is false this witness 
testified that the interpretive provision which   is included in the materials submitted by the 
application refers to a provision which is not   the provision I'm asking about it refers to 4- 5.9 
a it does not refer to 4- 5.9 second as I think it   doesn't it and so there is ju just a minute 
before we get too deep into this I think you   meant to say that you considered uh Mr Talbot's 
remark incorrect I I thought I said that I don't   uh I don't believe you meant what you said but uh 
uh it uh I'm sure you meant that his uh assertion   was incorrect uh I don't recall what I said 
and if it was if it was uh ugly I apologize   well I'm sure I mean we all In the Heat of battles 
sometimes Miss speak my point is that this witness   testified precisely the way I'm arguing to you 
all that the interpretive provision does not   apply to 4- 5.9 C it applies to 4- 5.9 A and B and 
so the question is if the interpretive provision   does not apply to item C and if item C is in fact 
relevant and if there is a well within 500 ft is   that an absolute prohibition on approval of this 
conditional use and I haven't heard the answer   show me the well there's the map from FD the 
question is if there's a well within 500 ft is it   a Prohibition unapproved if it's a permitted well 
oh I I can't track down every single well someone   drills it doesn't what standard should I use 
at that point well I'm I'm not sure I'm looking   at the Land Development code and it doesn't say 
anything other than any well and we went through   that definitional issue last time we did well 
is there's no adjective in front of well and   it doesn't say well that you all might be able to 
locate it says if there's a well you can't approve it show me the I'm examining 
this witness I got it and Mr   Jones is interrupted that's I'm the director I interpretations and the answer is I'm sorry 
restate the question if you don't know the   answer you don't know the answer this this 
is really uh cusion it's it's a conclusion   that they have sought to include in their 
application and that's why I'm attacking   it because it's not a legal conclusion it's 
a qualification for conditional approval I'm   sorry I did not submit an application the people 
who did we haven't had a chance to hear from yet   yeah remember Andrew it's not my case to make 
Andrew yes sir if you don't know the answer then   just I don't know all right that's all the 
questions I have okay I'll tell you what   before we it's now almost 10:30 why don't 
we take oh 10 minutes I'm sure everybody   would like to stretch their legs or get 
a drink of water I think that might be helpful uh Mr talber you'll be 
up uh when we come back and in   session and uh you can present your 
your case yes sir thank you yes sir spe sure yes sir I'm going all right e good people yeah I need to I'd like to not don't know been yes r am I allowed to I didn't get one last year june2 I tell you talk to Andrew's I'm a little salty right you know I don't know sometimes don't Chang new thatc so I to well um we we are where we are you did your Dy inter really [Music] you here okay everyone could we take our seat okay thank you ladies and gentlemen can we get 
back to our seats and we appreciate everything could everybody take your seat now and 
uh I think we're ready to get started again and   uh I we are again appreciate everyone being with 
us okay Miss toet I think it's time of at this   point for if you would to present your case uh 
what you intend to do uh what the project will   uh accomplish and whatever witnesses that you 
have yes sir uh that uh you know can uh explain   to us exactly what this is about we've kind 
of heard it backwards so far and this is your   opportunity I think we need to to hear from you 
U so we'll know what exactly we've heard what's   wrong but with it now we'd like to hear what it's 
all about I would if Mr day I saw was here is he   gonna present testimony uh Mr day is available if 
needed if we can yes Mr day and please be sworn in we're glad to have you with us yeah good 
morning board Tim day deputy director natural   resources management please raise your hand do 
you somly swear and affirm that the testimony   you're about to give will be the truth the 
whole truth and nothing but the truth so   be God I do thank you sir where are you 
employed uh with the scambi County Board   of County Commissioners and what is your position 
as deputy director of natural resource management   um I am in charge of overseeing uh environmental 
issues within the county okay have you been are   you familiar with this case we're dealing with 
today I am are you familiar with the regulations   with regard to burrow pits Wells and so forth 
in the county I am and are you familiar with the   interpretations with regard to Wells burrow pits 
Etc in the county yes now I want to ask there have   been some testimony or some cross-examination from 
Council a few moments ago are you are you familiar   with Section 4- 5.9 of the admin of Co or the 
yes does that deal with Wellhead protection yes   object to this witness if he's going to give a 
legal opinion it's not within the perview of his   expertise well I'm not sure he's going to give 
a legal opinion he can give his understanding   of what he believes uh the regulation uh says and 
how it's applied as a as an opinion it's something   that an expert would app to he's not nor would a 
legal expert be admissible I just I don't Mr day   Mr day has been accepted by this board multiple 
times as an expert witness I know Andrew um Mr   well first of all Mr day is an expert nobody's 
asked that he be sworn in as an expert but he is   certainly uh he's certainly is an expert and at 
least in my opinion Mr tala do you want to offer   Mr day yes sir welome as an expert in uh the 
uh County ordinances and at this case the uh   Wellhead protection act and the uh application uh 
submitted today he is natural resource management   which would incl include ground water uh the 
boundary disputes the zoning issues all related   to this case because that's what he does for 
a living all right uh Bard we've heard that   uh what is an offer of Mr day is an expert my mind 
there's no question that he certainly is an expert   he's well known in uh in uh our community and has 
served this County with distinction for many years   so uh but uh I don't take issue with the quality 
of his service I don't take issue with his honesty   or his character or anything having to do with the 
individual other than the fact that he's going to   be asked whether or not a particular provision 
says what the particular provision says and as   you objected or commented while I was examining 
this w I'm getting into a legal issue this is   where they're headed as well your honor sir sir 
Council brought up the whole issue of the well and   interpretation the statute or the regulation which 
he approaches and trying to argue to this board is   that this applies to this case that statute that 
provision says if you're doing a burrow pit and   you're going to bury excuse me for the protection 
of public health safety and Welfare the the   use handling production and storage of certain 
delorious substances and containments which may   impact present and future public portable water 
supply Wells well before we get to all that I   think Mr day is still here before us and he's been 
profer as an expert we the board has not voted on   that matter and I think we need to get that out 
of the way then we can hear your argument and Mr   bates's uh objection and we'll we'll take it from 
there board uh Mr day's been offered as an expert in natural resources management or 
Mr Dave what are you the yeah so um   the the easier way to think of it um I 
I've worked for the county since 1999   um I've worked uh for natural resources um since 
2000 in my role um I've sat on the DRC committee   um so I'm very familiar with regulations 
and process in terms of uh the development   of property uh during that same time um I've been 
the primary reviewer for impacts to Wetlands and   listed species as well as uh interpretation and 
regulation of wellhe heads all right will you   uh can we say natural resources management then 
as a shorthand for all this yes sir all right all   those in favor of Mr today being accepted as an 
expert in natural resources management would you   please raise your right hand may I have a motion 
in a second oh yeah that might be handy I'll   second all right Mr Smith and uh uh Mary all right 
let the record now we'll vote okay democracy and   action here uh okay let the record reflect that 
Mr day has been accepted as an expert in natural   resource management all right Mr tala go with 
your sir are you familiar with the application   submitted by my CL yes I am okay and could 
you Mr day can you get closer to the mic okay   there sorry I am all right and are you familiar 
with Section 4- 5.9 protection area regulation   yes I am if there are private Wells that are on 
adjacent properties is that a forbearance or a uh   a a a strike for the production or approval 
of a conditional or a disregulation to appr   for the record I object okay we have an your 
objection is noted by Mr Bates all right go   Miss tal it's still on okay your understanding 
is what is my client if he uh has this burough   pet he's going to take the sand out okay what is 
your understanding of what he's going to do with   the property afterwards y my uh my understanding 
is that it'll be excavated and ultimately become   a lake okay or is he going to store any delorious 
toxic or other containments containments in this   pit Mr talet I hate to interrupt but how is Mr 
Danny going to know the answer to that okay well   that's the proposal The Proposal is to make 
it as the late this well it I I think you've   asked him Mr D affirm his understanding his is his 
understanding that there afterwards it will be a l   Mr Day do you know if he's going to store 
uh material that is uh dangerous uh there   do you have any knowledge at all of anything like 
that so I don't have any knowledge of it um part   that would there there's really there's two parts 
because it's one we're we're still talking about   the application of the well well head ordinance 
itself um I've done wellheads interpretation   and provided comments your DRC on wellheads 
since 2000 right but do you know this is the   first time that there's been a suggestion that the 
Wellhead protection ordinance applies to private   Wells okay we're not there yet my question was 
simple do you know Mr tet has said that uh that   there will be the storage of potentially the 
storage of toxic materials do you know anything   about that so there's nothing that suggests 
from what's been proposed that there will be   those items that are on our list so you but you 
don't know one way or the other is I'm trying   to it's from the submitt there's there's no way 
to know because at some point this actually has   to go through DRC and then if something were 
to be proposed it would go through a set of   regulations it could be County it could also 
be the Florida Department of Environmental   Protection if it's regulated the short answer 
is you don't know absolutely correct there's   insufficient data uh okay Mr T next what effect 
does this statute or this regulation have if my   client is going to use that as a fishing 
hole or a p as part of the Reclamation process sorry I can even restate sure your 
understanding what is your your understanding   of the well head protection act and whether 
it applies to private Wells my understanding   is that it does not apply to private Wells for 
private use and why is that what's the Bas of   that understanding the basis the understanding is 
that the entire wellhe head ordinance is based on   protection of public water supply right 
has that already been interpreted by the   uh director here there is an interpretation 
by Horus Jones and is that interpretation   consistent with what you just testified to it 
is okay and when was that interpretation made   I would have to check a date I believe it was 
in 2022 was that interpretation appealed in   any way um not that I'm aware of from your 
sh standpoint is that interpretation final   it's it's a better question for Horus but my 
understanding is that it would be okay now sir   with regard to the Wellhead protection act or 
regulation is it your understanding that that   only applies to when you're storing 
tox or delus materials in the burrow pit so it would be I mean it would be 
specifically on the property so it could   be theoretically on a side bank but it's so 
if you're not Ste if you're not storing or   filling the hole with toxic materials and stuff 
of that nature this regulation does not apply to you it it doesn't apply because it's not 
applicable with private Wells okay and   actually the wellhe head protection act 
uh defined or identifies it as a public   portable Wellhead correct correct that's what 
the regulations intended to protect can this Lake   in your opinion from what you've seen from The 
Proposal can it be operated or the burough pit   that's going to sub turn into L can it be operated 
safely on this property so yes and uh what is the   basis of that opinion can you expound on that um 
unlike um a pit that's intended to receive some   form of waste in the future um there's there's no 
waste that's going to be imported that would add   to risk of groundwater contamination what if for 
instance it overflow what would happen would the   neighbors have a risk of being floated out it's 
well with the the creek next door um presumably uh   once the the pit itself would fill up um it would 
essentially act like a storm water Pond and then   it would discharge uh down hill to the creek where 
uh water presumably currently discharges when it   rains and as far as buffering are is there ways 
in which uh there buffering can uh be applied in   this case to uh protect any type of residential 
property or any type of adjacent property owner   yes the LDC does have buffering criteria uh that's 
been established by the board and is the buffering   criteria submitted here water than what the LDC 
outlin it's my understanding is a at least a   portion of it is okay and can trees and fences and 
so forth and other bushes helped absorb or prevent   any dust that's generated from going to ajic 
properties it's yeah natural vegetation is one   of the tools that can be utilized um additionally 
there are regulations in place uh from both the   county and D regarding offside dust and so through 
the DRC process we would have a dust mitigation   plan that would be approved and that's will be 
determined subsequent to this board's decision   approved then y'all will get involved in verify 
that the death suppression system is appropriate   and proper yes as well there will be annual 
inspections of this property to verify and   approve that they were actually following 
the uh uh plan their permit and not doing   anything improper on the property so presuming 
it was approved um I would my staff would visit   somewhere between monthly and quarterly to do do 
um particulate Maring which is just dust leaving   the site um there would be an annual meeting 
uh that also involves planning staff to make   sure that they're estivating and meeting all the 
criteria for the LDC and their development order   when the staff indicated that they proposed uh uh 
they propos acceptance of this permit and to allow   the condition to use are you part of that staff 
that agreed sub to submit it's um at this point   Consulting staff As Natural Resources I'm not a 
signature on the DRC route list do you have an   opinion as to whether this um this burrow 
pit can meet the criteria for conditional   um approval and be operating safely uh from my 
perspective um I don't see any deal breakers on it nothing further Sir Mr Bates today would you 
like to live next to a 40 foot or objection 44   acre 60t bar pit within 500 ft of your private 
well I'm object it's irrelevant whether he wants   to live next to it or not miss space maybe you 
could rephrase that uh I just I'm I'm curious   because we have a lot of people here that want 
to talk about having a problem with this B but   I'm asking you as somebody on this board said 
last time do you do you find a 40 acre plus 60t   borrow pit to be compatible with a residential 
use it's well sorry I'm I'm not an expert in   that field you're going to have to refer back to 
planning for that that's what I thought thank you one other question are there any U public 
Wells or well heads north of Baro Park Road   absolutely I looked on the map and I didn't 
see that there were any public Wells North   then I don't know how senty gets their water 
okay I don't either I'm just saying I looked   at the map and I found no well heads north 
of that and one last question what is the   definition of well in the Land Development code 
just lowercase w it's I don't not have it in   front of me it's not defined is it objection 
communicated he didn't have it in front of him okay all right are you finished with Mr Mr 
State before you go let's just see if the board   has questions yes sir board members uh you've 
heard the testimony of Mr day do you have any   questions for him all right I've got one question 
yes sir this we've gone pretty much into the uh   the question as I understand uh you spoke about 
if there is a private well that's within 500 feet   of the boundary line for this uh project that 
that private portable water well is not covered   by regulation is that true is that is is what I'm 
yes I heard yes okay now if it were a public well   it would run by a municipality or some kind of 
government agency then or or Co-op it's it it   needs to be a a public pable well and so that's 
it's I would have to recheck the old definition   it's no longer defined in code it used to be 
either serving 15 or 25 people yeah it's it's   easy enough to pull the old regulations yeah and 
uh so what we're uh talking about is there's a   difference between uh for the purposes of this 
discussion between a public well and a private   govern well right right that is correct and uh 
I I would like to know one additional thing uh   assuming for the sake of argument that there is a 
private well uh or any uh or even a a public well   it within 500 ft it still that water quality 
could be impacted by potentially by this kind   of development isn't that true so um that is 
true so you know an example of that is is if   you're within the protected well head um although 
a storm water Pond could be placed on the property   they don't allow for a sand chimney which which 
uh makes the water the storm water go down into   groundwater more quickly right so there are there 
there would be potential limitations associated   uh with a public well and um things like 
borrow pits yeah and also the effect would   be uh the well doesn't know if it's public 
or private the effect could be in a private   well the same is that right it it could 
have the same effect so this discussion   well thank you thank you sir that's uh I 
and I appreciate your testimony you you   cleared that up it seems to me y'all 
uh the discussion so far about these regulations if you heard my I'm sure you did Mr 
Day's testimony just then uh it doesn't matter   in one sense whether it's public or private it 
a well within 500 ft of a uh development like   this can become contaminated so I'm not sure how 
all you know what reg the regulation about this   how I I think we've gotten Too Deep In The 
Weeds about the actual regulation per se uh   that's just my thought we have a lot of people 
that want to speak I would like to address your   question and the closing argument if I might 
all right sir uh Mr to is still Mr talot here   Mr talot do you have an engineer or someone next 
up with we have Mr Patterson's next up and uh all right please state your name and address 
Justin Patterson 1536 Pelican Point Drive   tment Florida could you be swarm do you 
Solly swear and affirm that the testimony   you're about to give will be the truth the 
whole truth and nothing but the truth s God   I do thank you can you uh Mr Patterson do you 
own the property at 5595 Highway 995a yes sir   okay is that here in es skia County yes sir 
um and it is off is the property directly   adjacent to Highway 59a yes sir okay and 
approximately how much of your property   uh is adjacent to 59 and I say that that side 
about how much of the side um Road coverage um I've got eight nine acres 
maybe right in front of the   entrance and how many total Acres of 
this property do you have 52.8 Acres   when did you purchase this property 
um back in I believe it was March of 2020 why did purchase this property uh to put a 
a lake on it and build a house and did you before   you bought the property and you said you want to 
build a lake can you explain how the process of   building a lake um well to to build the lake I I 
have to get a permit to dig the the dirt out um I   also own another pit in Asia County um and that's 
what I do for a living so um you know I want to   use the dirt to help fund building my house I 
mean that's what any anybody would do if they   were in my line of work honestly and sir when you 
before you bought this property did you inquire   into the county as to whether you could dig the 
dirt out and do a burrow pit and then fill it with   water yes sir and uh what was explained to you 
by the county before you purchased this property   I was well I was told that it was it met all 
criteria that that it was in the right area   had enough acreage that it only that the pit would 
have to be 20 acres or more and that there would   be you know no issues with me getting it permitted 
at the time that you purchased the property   there is some property directly adjacent to 
yours that is owned by Connor's Realty LLC   isn't that correct yes sir and your property is 
it owned in your name or LLC um it's in my name   okay and um but the property adjacent to you for 
which Council represents is owned by an LLC right   yes sir okay at that time was when you purchased 
the property was somebody living in that house   no sir was anybody on that property or was 
it a vacant piece of property it was vacant   and then Mr Conor subsequently purchased the 
property yes sir or his Connor's realy yes sir okay now sir if you your intent is to dig the hole is 
that right yes sir and to sell the dirt   yes sir okay and how far down do you dig or how 
far are you intending to dig down the the deal is   and and this is what I've went over with with the 
county I me sorry I'm going to go overboard with   this a little bit but the reason I'm permitting 
what I'm permitting is because I've went through   this type of stuff before with my other pits that 
I've ran um far as me permitting 44 Acres I'm not   digging 44 Acres I understand the facts that Mr 
bit saying that nobody wants to live beside a hole   that's 40 to 60 foot deep I get that I don't 
either and I'm building me a house out here I   bought this land I I I made my I got my house 
plans Drew up in 2020 before I ever even came   to this meeting to get it approved the first time 
and I have those plans I've you know I mean they   I can show them to you I can show you the check 
that I wrote to the guy making the house plans   it's the fact of the matter is this has been 
the plan from day one and there's nothing else   happening if I'm going to build my house in front 
of this why would I leave it a 40 to 60 foot hole   I'm not I'm still going to have cows out there I'm 
still going to have livestock there's going to be   pastures left and all that the reason of having 
it 44 acres is to where I don't have to go back   and try to get something expanded or whatever if 
I want to curve the lake or whatever in a certain   area or build a pasture a different way a certain 
way or something like that it's this is going to   be my residence and you know they everybody that's 
here wan to speak about this they know only one   side of it because the Connors behind me actually 
have made is this narrative is it going to be   question and answer this is facts sir and I would 
appreciate easy Gentlemen please uh I I was used   to the question and answer and now he's just going 
with the narrative if I take it if that's supposed   to you're objecting then well the sir I'm sorry 
sir just hold on hold on Mr uh talin if you'd like   to do some I'll do some more help yeah okay help 
him sir that I think that would be helpful sir   you indicated or there's people here that testify 
um is your intention to store anything delorious   in this no okay it's to make a lake is that right 
yes okay and has stuff been told to other people   here uh or that you have you seen s that have 
been put out by Mr Connor yes okay and they   did they say that you were going to cause toxic 
issues to the ground water and all that yes okay   and that's not what you're intending to do sir no 
sir now the issue with filling you mentioned that   you do this for a living you own another pit is 
that right yes sir okay and with that other pit   do you have any plans or what are you when it's 
finished what is going to happen with that pit   that pit is also has the reation plan of a lake 
and it has I've I've already discussed it with   with the board and everything it's it's going to 
go before the BCC to be donated to the county and   it's going to be a signed by once it's signed by 
the VCC is going to be donated and it's going to   be turned into a recreational property for the 
Wedgewood Community is the plan it hasn't been   signed off on but that is the plan and your 
plan for this personal this property is for   your personal house and your personal lake 
is that right yes sir okay let's talk about   a couple the issues that they bring up in the 
um traffic all right highway 995a is have you   you've driven down that numerous times right yes 
sir okay uh is it do does commercial traffic use   that property yes Street yes sir and do you see 
dump trucks on that street on a regular occasion   yes sir and if you sell your dirt is that going to 
necessarily create more traffic no sir are there   other pits in the Northeast part of the county yes 
sir where are those pits in the Northeast part of   the county um there's one off of um Cemetery I I 
believe it's Cemetery Road um North Way north of   me on Highway 29 there's one across Highway 
29 off of 97 um I mean they the traffic is   the traffic that's already going through there 
are going to those those pits right now now if   there's development is there development in the 
area yes sir okay and Builders will have to buy   dirt is that right correct and if you don't have 
a Pit Where would be the quickest place that they   could buy dirt um Cemetery Road um at the uh 
Campbell pit up on Highway 29 North of me is   that how far north of you is that uh to be totally 
honest I don't know the exact mileage I've never   been there um I believe it's probably another 
seven eight miles maybe your pit essentially   take business away from people buying dirt from 
his P um possibly yes sir if people buy from you   would that relieve some of the commercial traffic 
that would have to go north on 995a to get other   pits yes I suggest we're getting very far field 
as you previously yes I I think we are uh I was   almost there I was going to give you try to give 
you some latitude but uh and that's that's all   of us establishing and because they're bringing 
up traffic in commercial use and that's what we   were devel well if it will help everyone's mind 
on that traffic is one of those things that the   board really is not um that's a bay Wick that we 
aren't in that would be decided by uh the DRC so   generally we can observe that uh there is uh 
traffic on on the road on the highway it is   it is made up of many kinds of vehicles including 
dump trucks there are many sites or several sites   for Bor Pits on the highway uh on that Highway 
and trucks go from here to there yes I I think   that pretty much settles uh or sets it out so 
uh but that's not going to be real Factor about   where we are yes sir let's talk about um whether 
the property can be conducted in a manner that is   consistent with the area do you feel that you're 
able to conduct or operate on this property and   dig uh the dirt out of the ground in in consistent 
with the uh what's going on in the area yes sir   okay can you explain to the board why well there's 
there's use for the dirt right now um you know   with sub is being built around me and um I mean 
like I said it's it's it's all about honestly it   meeting the five criteria it meets them okay and 
Sir with regard that you said you're not going to   put any type of delorious or toxic items right 
no sir okay now what about um was this property   previously um do you recall some testimony from a 
neighbor that said previously uh followed somebody   dumping on this property yes sir so did somebody 
previously use this property to dump some uh dirt   or treat type they were I they were digging a 
they were actually digging dirt in the back and   and threw a few you know threw some Lumber and tin 
and stuff like that back there in the hole Yeah so   Mr once again we have a room full of people some 
of them had to leave and this is not pertaining   to the application it is perpectly pertaining 
to the application because it goes to show that   prior use of this property had been dug and stuff 
buried in it and he is actually going to clean the   property up so it's a improve the area from what 
is already there that's true U well I think you   made your point on that then okay that's fine uh 
if we could move on yes sir now uh with regard to   the property your um the a buffering in the sand 
what are you going to plan to do to try to protect   from the neighbors any type of sand or any type 
of dust or so forth I'm going to have well the   I'm going to have water trucks sprinkler on side 
the roads or whatever but still that's okay that's   something we go over with a DRC okay you plan to 
put trees up to make sure that it's all protect   those are trees that would be tall and full of 
brush yes sir and uh are you going to work that   out with the DRC about what they propose to 
protect the neighbors yes sir I won't I won't   have a choice I have to I will have to comply 
with them now you said sprinklers tell me about   that what does that do just knocks down dust 
keeps dust from getting in the air all right   and uh what about noise uh you're talking about a 
some dump trucks and come in and out occasionally   in the tractors um it's it's going to be the 
noise will be minimal it I mean honestly it's   not going to be like what people think there's 
not going to be any more noise than that there   already is there I put it that way do people 
operate tractors around the uh property where   you're at yes sir okay so if somebody's operating 
a tractor and you're you're operating an escavator   or Trump it's going to be similar to activities 
around there is that fair to say yes sir similar   noise around there yes sir now you have two 
neighbors within I guess main neighbors within   a th000 feet uh the Connors do you have you 
determined how far their house is off of Highway   995a um I believe it is 1,200 and something 
feet okay and what about your other neighbor um   this like 900 and something okay close 
to a th so both the Connors and the other   neighbor are almost a th000 feet off 
the road their house right okay now sir um I'm SC to make sure we did some things sir did you um the dorches have you ever spoke 
to miss dorch about this property yes sir okay   and uh did you uh tell her what you were going 
to do with the property yes sir okay and you   were going to build you told her you were going 
to build a lake yes sir and what did she say in   response to that the the first time I met her 
she she said that she didn't care what I did it   was my land that I would be able to do what I 
wanted to on my own land and are ponds common   in this area where you're at yes sir okay 
in fact doesn't miss George have a pond uh yes as far as public services you're not going to 
require anything more of Public Services like uh   Power and Water anything over over uh extensive 
no sir nothing other than what I have now all   right as far as getting into your property the 
Ingress and egress are they able to just turn   off 995a yes sir okay and you're going to have a 
wide enough uh driveway there that they can turn   in yes are you going to have signs in type 
of lit signs or anything of that nature no   sir just what type of sign do you plan to have um 
just whatever the county requires me to have okay um nothing further sir this B uh did you have 
questions I did have a question too yes sir um Mr   Patterson your your application says the subject 
property is largely surrounded by undeveloped   property there is one residential structure to 
the south of the proposed site period is that   accurate yes there it was when when we done all 
that yes sir this application was submitted this   year is it correct there's a whole lot more than 
one residential uh property around this site isn't   there there's yeah there's more than one yes so 
your application in that sense is not correct   right yeah okay and are were you telling this 
board that you're going to installment you're   going to plant mature trees as a buffer yes 
sir I can yes sir well there's already plenty   of trees out there the only place that needs to 
be a buffer is would be on the northwest end of   my property which I don't understand why anybody 
want a buffer for what it's going to look like at   the end but how long do you intend to operate the 
pit that like Mr Homer said earlier that depends   on what the housing market does so it could be 
a year could be 10 years you don't know no sir   okay um real quick uh with respect to your I had 
the question on my mind and it slipped away you're   talking about installing a pond but what you're 
doing is actually talking about converting a   borrow pit to a pond down the road someday right 
no sir what what I'm doing is like I said that   is you're getting off topic again see that that 
goes let let me finish sir gentleman gentlem deted   at the BCC meeting M Patterson I'm sorry as as uh 
just answer the question well I can't answer if he   you know that's it's not an answer that I can make 
because the BCC has to determine all that that's   the Reclamation plan we've already went over that 
okay well you you have answer his question then   right who is the applicant Iron Horse or you the 
applicant is Iron Horse and for the for the pit   okay your iron horse LLC is the applicant I'm I am 
not L an LLC anymore I'm an escort okay Iron Horse   Incorporated in escort okay U and you said you're 
involved in another borrow pit is that short Leaf   LLC yes sir and shortleaf LLC is the borrow pit by 
the Wedgewood Community yes has had a lot of press   in the recent past yes that had nothing to do with 
me and are you a manager of short Leaf LLC I'm the   owner you're the owner and you're also the manager 
yes okay um is that part of the experience that   you're touting for purposes of your application 
to this board I don't understand what you're asking who's going to be no I don't have any more 
questions all right or do we have any questions   for Mr Patterson Sor Mr Patterson I do have one 
uh do you have any idea how many homes are would   be involved uh if your project was uh completed 
or or or we granted approval I guess is what I'm   trying to say there I've heard one I've heard 
two uh do you have any IDE how many homes would   be touched by this to be totally honest with 
you sir it's it's not it's not going to affect   any of them they're G yes they'll see a dump truck 
come in coming in and out or whatever but there's   already dump trucks coming in and out of the house 
next door to me they're saying and I'm not I'm   not trying to be I'm just saying it's it's the 
the deal is it's not going to be like everybody   thinks it is the reason they think it's going 
to be this way is because people have made them   think that yeah there's three houses right there 
beside me that would be in that could actually   see it is all I know okay and U so there there 
are several homes that are around is there well   there's there's one to the northwest of me and 
then there's um one to the northeast of me which   has no issue with it I've already spoke with them 
and the other two people that Liv there didn't   have an issue with it until Mr Connors and his 
attorney went to his house to their house and made   it an issue okay help to put the map up so you can 
put the map up yeah let's let's take a look at the m i if I make show yes sir okay if you look at the 
bottom the South part where the residence you talk   about the Connor property where is it located is 
it the bottom of your South part of your property   yeah okay South South uh east corner there all 
right the dorches are they in the top right of   your property the north e West Corner no sir 
they're at the left the top left right there   yeah that's I'm sorry top left North West corner 
I'm sorry and there one where you can see the pond   on their property too yes sir okay and the other 
house that you said is was where where is it it's   right there on the northeast corner of where the 
where it comes back out and makes the long line   North is right there little small lot right there 
up up top of two right there that's Mr glass all   right and he was okay with it yeah yeah he has 
no issues with it all right now if we could go   down to the south east point of the property 
there's a large R that's area yeah that uh is   a agricultural yard there's nothing trees there 
that's just a vacant piece of property and that's   going to separate that's not your property is it 
no okay that separates as another buffer between   your property and Highway 995a right and on the 
bottom right hand side you have more uh trees   that's going to with that buffer between your 
property and uh the Connor's property yes okay   and Sir um your house is going to go where on this 
uh chart right where my where my barn is now right   there yes you mentioned that a neighbor has uh 
dump dump trucks is that right coming in and out   yes where's that on the property um right on the 
edge of my prop the north side of my property okay   the top North Side so in that area there's dump 
trucks going in and out there yes every once in a   while yes okay um and is there other items that is 
put put on the property right there on the north   side of your property um actually hauling dirt in 
and and gravel and Mulch and stuff like that put   back there yes sir are they also burning anything 
on that property yes sir all right who owns that   property um I'm not I believe it's uh it would be 
the it' be Dell kite or I'm not I don't remember   his wife's name it' be the kites the daughter of 
Miss dorch okay so miss dorch who's probably is   here to State it's her daughter-in-law that 
owns that property yes and who we're going   to be here all day we may be if you have to keep 
interrupting uh Mr Bates you did kind of open the   door on this uh when you ask uh Mr Patterson 
how many um people live uh in the vicinity   so I think it's Tony has been gone far beyond 
that and whether or not miss dorch is related   to somebody who might own the property down the 
street is wasting everybody's time sir what the   issue is is if she's here to testify to object 
to his digging a pit her grandson is operating   dump trucks storing dirt on the property directly 
Jason to her burning trash on the property Jason   to her well now now Mr tal but I think we are 
getting up my question was simple I just wanted   to know how many homes are around and I think 
Mr Patterson has uh answered his the question   the best he could he sir so these other matters 
aren't gerain to where where we are so I think   the only the only purpose of that was was just 
to let people know that it's not going to affect   anybody around me any more than what's already 
being done at the same piece of property already   all right sir I and uh I appreciate your your 
statement thank you thank you for your testimony   all right Mr talot do you have anyone else that 
you'd like to uh nobody else sir nobody else Mr   Bates do you have my client and I have my 
engineer but at the same time I we have a   room full of people that have't written off the 
day who would like to speak I would like to let   them speak their three minutes or whatever the you 
all allow and then defer my Witnesses till they're   done if that's okay I'm just trying to accommodate 
the group he needs to present his testimony sir   that's he wanted to step up and wanted to defend 
his client step up and let's present the witnesses   so that we can get through them well Mr baate does 
does have a good point I know that this has been a   long proceeding and I know that uh all the people 
who have taken time out of their day to come uh   have things to do and responsibilities elsewhere 
uh Mr chairman yes sir um even though I'm not   voting ID like to add um piggyback on that um 
these um taxpaying citizens they um have came out   today um to voice their opinion and um you know I 
think the voice need to be heard because everybody   they don't have they don't own businesses and 
they don't don't have the flexibility the way   we do at times and um so I think it'll be good 
if we hear from the um from the community at this point well board members gentlemen would you 
like to hear our speakers uh we can go ahead   and go through our list here uh Mr debates though 
realized though at theend once we go through these   uh it's the board's prerogative it and their 
decision uh we're pretty much going to go to uh   try to BR bring this to a conclusion well you Mr 
in all due respect Mr Godwin I have two witnesses   that I'd like to present but they can be here and 
they will be here I'm trying to accommodate this   group of people if you're telling me I can't put 
on my two witnesses if we let them testify then   I've got to go well I'm just I'm just telling 
you that uh once we get to that point we will   want to begin to bring this to a conclusion so 
I've got no choice but to call my next witness   uh but I I I agree with you couldn't be Mr Pates 
I'm so sorry I interrupted but I shouldn't yes sir   uh I'm doing my very best to accommodate you on 
this and I would be helpful I think if you would   please allow me to try to do that so what we're 
going to do is this we're going to hear from the   public which uh I and the board appreciates have 
sat here through a long morning and then when we   finish with the public we are going to be entering 
into the conclusion to this hearing and at that   point if you would like to offer your Witnesses uh 
if the board would like to hear them I don't have   any objection to that but it uh but like I said 
I would appreciate it now if you would let me try   to uh move this thing along because it has 
been a long morning and these I agree with   you these citizens have waited a long time and 
we're going to accommodate them so I have two   witnesses that I would yes sir I understand 
and it's on the record thank you sir all right um Mr talet he definitely has spoken 
[Music] um do we have the clock Madam clerk uh we will uh be uh allowing each 
person three minutes uh from the general   public to voice their opinion and as I 
said in the beginning if your neighbor   says something and that's pretty much 
where you are then you can just say   he said it and uh uh that will allow things 
to move along even quicker but by no regards   is anyone going to be denied their time so 
and again thank you we begin now with Dawn   and oh if I butcher your name which I will please 
forgive me and correct me uh I'm I'm I'm sorry so   I say that ahead of time Don Osler yeah that must 
be it if it's all right with the board I would be   happy to defer my time until everyone else has 
been heard because I do have the flexibility to   be here I'm sorry I didn't hear you ma'am I would 
be happy to defer my opinion until after everyone   else been heard because I do have the flexibility 
to be here I'm not pressed to be any okay all   right that's very good you ma'am and I'll be sure 
that you will get your time uh Anthony uh well   we've heard from Mr Patterson so we don't have a 
problem there and of course we've heard from Mr Bates uh Jim Connor that's my client 
your honor he will testify he's one   of my Witnesses all right well we 
will look forward to that uh Sharon kite please ra thank you ma'am thank you for 
waiting could you give your uh name and address   and and allow the Cur clerk to swear you in yes 
my name is Sharon kite I live at 5537 Highway   995a please raise your right hand do you Solly 
swear and affirm that the testimony you're about   to give will be the truth the whole truth and 
nothing but the truth St you God I do thank you   all right so my main concern is I own a private 
well that according to I don't remember your name   Mr Jones Mr Jones has when when we had our break 
told me he couldn't tell me when private Wells   were required to be permitted nor when they were 
were required to be documented in es scambi County   I know that my private well miss torch's private 
well Mr Connor's private well were all installed   within a maybe fiveyear window um my concern 
is that whenever he starts digging that the the   water table there is between six and 24t and if 
he goes past 24t when he gets down to 55 ft as his   previous pitch is that he's said he was going to 
donate he's going to hit an aquafer and that that   concerns me that the aquafer would be disturbed 
and affect the water tables okay as far as the the   pit that was there before the person who owned the 
pit that he that he bought it from Vicky Henderson   she actually owned his property and she owned Mr 
Connor's property okay so the lady owned that she   bought that she bought the property that Mr I just 
drew a blank Patterson thank you I drew a blank I   just drew a blank sorry that Mr Patterson bought 
to stop the pit because the person that was there   was illegally dumping okay that that's why she she 
bought it she lived in Birmingham and she sold it   but you know when what is the time period what is 
it what is temporary how long long is temporary   and how long you know will there be an extension 
once he digs a pit Will there be an extension to   it and if so how long will it go on I know people 
said it's up to the market well you know with   something like this if if if you're planning your 
residence then maybe start building a house and   allowing your neighbors to see that you're wan to 
build a house there I mean I think that's really a   big concern can can I'm sorry resp no no she not 
at I'm I know but I'm just saying the aquafer is   my main concern and the whe heads thank you uh 
ma'am before you go uh first I've got a question   and then these gentlemen may have questions for 
you um your first question is where is your well   I live um on the other side of the pond that 
next section over the other yellow section   right from the pond yeah I don't do directions 
yes okay and uh how do you know that the aquer   is because that's what the guy who drill well 
told me uh how deep mean I don't he's no expert   no expert at all not certified not qualified or 
anything but I'm just curious how you knew uh   learned that the it was like that's what he told 
me and I went with his word and okay all right   well thank you gentlemen and somebody may can 
speak to that I don't know I mean I'm just going   by what I was told how long have you lived this 
property 34 years okay and how do you know when   the property of the well on the Conor's property 
was put in because the gentleman that installed it   installed my will off okay so that's here say you 
don't know you have no personal knowledge what of   was installed oh it was installed in the '90s 
early '90s you have no personal knowledge that   you weren't there to watch it personal knowledge 
means that you I don't have any pictures of it   yes no' you're related to M she doesn't know Mr 
yes I am M tal she doesn't know I don't know so   I I think that's the answer ni question was the 
the water ma'am you're daughter I am okay and   your grandson does he operate a he does he has a 
go ahead okay does your grandson operate a dump   truck on your property my son son not my grandson 
my son okay has started a private business yes yes   ma'am just a moment Mr B what I I I guess I didn't 
anticipate that each of the several commentaries   from the public for their three minutes would 
be subject to cross examination Beyond 3 minutes   R the rules read the rules earlier yes sir it's 
uh in theory they are most often in the in cases   they're not uh uh the witnesses uh are the com 
uh the individuals who speak are not generally   they voice their thoughts and that's pretty much 
it but this is a different kind of situation you   gentlemen have the right if you want to exercise 
it then you're entitled to okay now ma'am um you   said your son has a Roberts a dump truck and has a 
business on that piece of property directly north   he stores his equipment stores okay does he have a 
dump truck he drives on that property he does have   a dump truck does he have dirt piled up on that 
property he has hat is he selling dirt or gravel   from that property Mr tet no that's for personal 
use we've got can we please we're going to be here   a long long time if this is far a field to what 
what we are doing here is with the water uh sir   one of if I may okay I want to make the record 
that one of the factors for which they address is   whether the property can be operated in the same 
uh manner as adjacent level properties and that   excuse me ma'am okay and the issue here here is 
if the property directly north of her and one of   the people complaining is operating the business 
driving dump trucks storing their dump trucks   and selling dirt and gravel from that property 
and transporting it it is going to be the same   operation so my client using a to dig hole to dig 
a hole and sell dirt ISC consistent well that that   may be argument for a closing but it's not where 
we are right now if I'm trying to argue now sir I   was trying to present testimony on the record oh 
okay I I think you've accomplished your mission   there I take it no more questions thank you 
ma'am I appreciate you coming um our our next uh speaker Randy Woods Mr Woods if you could face the clerk and give 
your name and address and also be sworn okay   Randy wood 1451 rolling o Drive Molina Florida do 
you s me SAR and affirm that the testimony you're   about to give will be the truth the whole truth 
and nothing but the truth so be God I do thank   you go Ahad okay I just wanted to just to make 
a couple of points because we're talking about   agricultural Zone U moo is changing so rapidly L 
that the agriculture zone is disappearing rapidly   we've had like four new businesses come in and 
we one is a proposal for a Circle K at Highway 95   and quintet road we've had uh two at the end of 
196 and 29 Coy Corner parking latte coffee shop   and we've had uh a Dollar General come in 29 196 
Molino fire department just announced the other   day we went from a volunteer fire department 
to a full-time fire department because of the   residential increase uh in our area with new 
subdivisions we've actually had a proposal for   six new subdivisions that are currently going in 
in the area with an an anticipated residence of   300 3,956 new residents and of course that would 
equate to baseed on two cars about 989 new cars   on the road uh driving every day uh and that's 
a lot of homes and that's excluding the one that   wanted to go in at Woodland Park development it 
was uh 23 2,356 Town Homes 265 single lot homes   that was postponed but they pulled it back out 
but they will be trying again these are going to   be coming in so this area as far as agriculture is 
rapidly changing drastically so what was because   an agricultural area is no more you don't see big 
cattle Farms you don't see any of that stuff out   there this thing is changing they have nowhere 
else to go but North everybody's moving North   there's nowhere to build around here so they're 
going north and we're the whole environment's   changing so as far as agriculture there's like a 
few slots out there but the things are changing   we have more residents to accommodate and you know 
it just should be a good environment and then as   far as the scabby County uh comprehensive plan 
had a comment in here in section 1.03 intent uh   the plan is provide orderly growth management for 
those areas identified Section 102 the ordinance   is not intended to terminate growth but rather 
to provide mechanisms for growth Management in   order to serve the citizens visitors and 
property owners of Escambia County okay   the Implement implementation of this ordinance 
is designed to maintain and improve the quality   of life for all citizens of the county I can't 
see where this is going to improve my life in   in the county in the area where I live you know 
I live right down from it on Rolling Oaks so you   know we the way it sloped the land it comes down 
to the creek and then it runs off it actually   crosses the road I see it as an environmental 
hazard okay is not good thank you thank you for   for your thoughts and thank you for coming and 
thank you for staying so naturally I'm against   it yes sir gentlemen I take it no questions 
from this no sir uh no questions from the board uh let's see Teresa hollerin yes ma'am I did it bear with 
me could you please face the clerk please Teresa   Kenan 6950 Kansas road David Florida 368 do 
you Solly swear and affirm that the testimony   you're about to give will be the truth the 
whole truth and nothing but the truth so you   God yes thank you can you bring up the photo 
of the 500 foot perimeter that was placed on there so my understanding is that we're here 
because of a a proposal to put a burrow pit   within a th000 feet of residence this only 
is half of the perimeter that's needed to   actually represent the amount of homes that 
are going to be impacted by this borrow pit   um there are many you know which has already 
been stated but there are many undocumented   Wells which again is a question of when 
were they required to be documented um   and the reason that I'm here here because 
I'm not my address is clearly not here um   but I am the daughter of one of those affected 
sorry I'm nervous public speaker um but this   is going to I am this is a family Legacy so 
my children will probably live in this home   um my children's children hopefully it goes 
on Down the Line this property was bought   with with money from my grand father so um 
I would just like to see residential use or   agricultural use not Bor pits in this vicinity 
we have a very tightnit tight-knit Community we've I've probably grown up with most of 
these people's children because you see it's   a much older generation in here um my children 
are friends with some of their grandchildren   and some of their children um we want our our 
community to grow in a in a positive way he's   basically stating that he's going to come in 
and build a home at a lake um I don't see any   any movement forward to accomplish those goals 
um I'm familiar with the kites the dorches um   their son that he is referring to is running 
a business off of their property is incorrect   he's actually building his home and his business 
across the street from my current property um so   we are neighbors I buy dirt from him and I see 
where it comes from across the street from my   house um I don't think that this borrow pit 
is going to be a lake I don't think that he   is going to build a home and I haven't seen 
anything other than his just simple statement   and testimony to that fact that indicates he is 
intending he already has stated up here as well   he has no intention of running any more power or 
water to the property than what is already there   um to my knowledge in order to build a home you 
know power things like that are going to be needed um I think us as a community are tired of 
um aggressive behavior from the gentleman he   already displayed it in here multiple times there 
are a lot of um gunshots going off from that area   hog pins being built it's aggressive and it's not 
appreciated thank you ma'am thank you for stay Mr   chairman Mr chairman yes I have a quick question 
for um exactly where is um your property located   um um from this property and um so basically fine 
right there so so if you take his property his   bottom of that property line go straight to the 
left all those little bitty squares down there are   Residential Properties my father's property is the 
very top one in the little yellow squares yes okay   so if you expand that out to a th000 ft if it's 
you know proportionate that's going to include   my father's land as well his as his well that he 
uses his potable water for himself not horses not   animals that's what he drinks from so is that 
the property where you um currently um um buy   dirt from from across the road no okay I currently 
live in one okay I have an only child this is my   family property that's the property I grew up on 
um so that is is 100% coming down the line that   will be my property at some point okay I I just 
wanted to um clarify that because I didn't want   anybody um you to sit down and they think that um 
you're buying dirt from across the road from this   property we we're speaking of appreciate it okay 
if I can on that same thing you said you're buying   dirt from Mr Kite Miss kite's son right yes and 
you said he's building his house there right from   my house in Walnut Hill okay but his the where 
you're buying the dirt from is the property north   of my client no he's getting the dirt from across 
the street where he is building his home across   street H from where in Walnut Hill so he's digging 
dirt hold so he is digging dirt and selling it to   you he's not digging dirt on his property he has 
he has his dirt stored on his property where does   he get the dirt from he comes from a pit from his 
cousin what who's his cousin the guy that runs d   who's why does that matter you're the one that's 
saying oh let's I think we're getting a feel here   again uh U I think she's answered what you've 
asked so and that was the reason topic let   me know that was the reason for my question Mr 
chairman I didn't want anybody to be uh um you   know confused about where where she's getting 
the dirt from and I just wanted her to clarify   that she wasn't getting the dirt across from 
this property um we speaking of today well I   yes sir I think we've established yes 
I agree thank you ma'am we appreciate it uh ulala Travis yes ma'am thank you for coming Miss 
Travis thank you for being here too   be here do you Solly swear and affirm that 
the testimony you're about to give will   be the truth the whole truth and nothing but 
the truth help you God that's true thank you   please state your name and address my name 
is Yol May Travis my birthday November 6 1942 and that Ro y'all 
called 95a was 29 when I was born yes ma'am and your address for the record too 
876 Josh Lane I stay right in front of Patterson   property he bought all right but I remember when 
it was ha ain't nothing over there but R snakes   all right thank you ma'am now what would you like 
to tell us I'm against that pit he's going to be   there cause my house is right down that road where 
it say Josh Lane my box number is 876 yes ma'am do   you have a Well ma'am it has two Springs on my 
land I I'm sorry I didn't hear you two Springs   there was there when I when I stayed on Cedar 
Town Road where I was born at yes ma'am that's   about a block from where that roope Josh Lane is 
to Cedar Town roope go that this way go through   Molina yes anyway it was no houses up there then 
and I used to stand it was old house made like a   air you go across that field back down there where 
I stay at now they used to wash back there know   people on the rad boat yeah and and the tub back 
there and there two Springs back there it's one   when you go down Josh Lan you go around the curve 
like that it's one water rning there and I did my   daughter a half acre land and she got a house 
built there and on the other side of that is a   spring go down there and go around through I know 
him as Calvin his fish Parts yes ma'am and that's   what you use for your water supp no I got City 
Water Molina oh okay thank you ma'am thank you too Joshua Lori Lori oh thank you sir please raise your 
right hand do you Solly swear and affirm that   the testimony you're about to give will be the 
truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth   so you God I do thank you state your name and 
address please my name is Joshua Lowry I live   at 5730 Highway 995a Molino Florida yes sir what 
would you like to tell us um I'm against this   borrow pit I've got three young daughters 
and just here at the top of that 500 yard   range is where my daughter's bus stops are I've 
got two one in middle school one in high school   and a third one about to go in middle school 
there's been two traffic fatalities within that   same range right there um the young late well 
the older lady who owned the property for me   was killed on that road checking her mail and the 
motorcyclist was killed right across from Cedar   Town Road there's already enough traffic on that 
Highway and understand there's construction and   growth but adding a borrow pit right here is going 
to centralize that traffic within the range that   I live right so trucks coming in and out of there 
essentially almost adjacent to his properties that   church where the school bus stop is so they 
have to walk from my house to that school bus   stop and it makes me worried that all this extra 
construction traffic might take the life of one   of my children um I don't have a local well um 
it's anecdotal evidence but if you dig 2 ft down   in my backyard you're hitting water so I can't 
say that there's an aquifer there but there's   water within feet of the ground level within 
a thousand yards of uh of that property so   I understand Mr Patterson might be trying to 
you know make some money and I'm not against   somebody trying to make money I just don't 
want it in my neighborhood this is where I   live this is where I'm raising my family 
and I just don't want it I mean it's just   comes down to that so that's all I have to say 
thank you sir thank you for coming y Rebecca dorch gentlemen I'm by your silence I'm assuming 
that you have no questions if you have questions   please speak up I'm not going to say every time 
questions so just be aware thank you ma'am thank   you for coming could you face the Clerk and 
raise your right hand do you sol me swear and   affirm that the testimony you're about to give 
will be the truth the whole truth and nothing   but the truth sop you God yes ma'am thank 
you state your name and address please I   am here in reference to the dirt pit that's in 
Co in in my yard and some corrections to what   Mr attorney had to say that Mr Patterson said 
about me yes ma'am could could we have your   name and address my name is Rebecca dorch I'm 
at 5525 Highway 995a North thank you ma'am uh   I did speak with Mr Patterson he stay about three 
hours at my house one day telling me what he was   going to do and that I did not need to come 
to a meeting because he had everything under   control I told him I didn't have a problem with 
him digging a hole and having a pond but I also   told him that he could only do what the county 
would permit him to do that was to build a dirt   pit within 1,000 ft of a residence he was in 
the area before he bought his property so he   knew where most of the houses were because he 
was down my driveway with Mr Divine so uh one   thing people are not saying is this pit location 
is one mile south of the County Complex in Molina also my water well is 143 ft from the property 
line my house is 121 ft from the property line   so 1,000 feet It's a Long Way um as I was leaving 
this meeting on April the 20th of 2022 I was on my   way to my car and someone came across the parking 
lot and met me and asked if I was Mrs Dort and I   said yes and I said well you must be Tracy because 
I'd never seen her before other than at a distance   and she identified herself as Tracy I'm going to 
object she she told me that she was going to make   she's going off base you know well she told 
me she three minutes all the green that I was   M dor hold it just a moment let's what is 
your objection she might have three minutes   however we don't need to get into this 
either name calling or those other issues   you've already name call Sir ma'am ma'am 
just just hold for a moment please M TCH is what's the substance how is this related to 
where we're what we're discussing today what   we're discussing the day she told me she was 
going to put up a 10ft for privacy fence and   told me I was not going to see any green anymore 
and when she turned around to leave she turned   around and told me she was going to make my life 
as miserable as hell the rest of my life I'm 82   years old so I feel like that my life has been 
threatened yes ma'am I understand that okay help   you told him who Tracy is pardon who is Tracy and 
see that's the whole thing I mean that's that's   the Tracy Tracy major is Mr Patterson's office 
administrator okay all right Miss George we I   understand that that's really not relevant to 
where we are uh that's kind of well it's just   not relevant to our our discussion my my pond 
that I have at my house it goes from three foot   to 9 foot deep and it's almost a third of an acre 
so it's not very big to in comparison to 44 Acres   yes ma'am one last thing uh M torch uh how do you 
know that your house I believe you said was 143   ft from the boundary line the property line did 
did you measure I'm just asking did you measure   it I personally measured it myself with a 100 foot 
measuring tape okay and and the other uh and your   well was what now my well is 143 I I'm sorry I 
didn't hear you 143 okay that I but these are   something that you did yourself yes sir okay thank 
you and when Mr Patterson had his land surveyed   the surveyors was on my property setting up their 
equipment because they didn't want to go down into   the woods okay gentlemen do you have a question 
that is not of that's Germain more to where we are   this question and not into person personalities 
and uh that sort of thing I have some questions   sir all right sir ma'am you referenced your well 
y you have public water though too correct I do   have public water and I have my waterers in 
my well as potable okay and um ma'am at the   2021 hearing I remember watching the video and you 
indicated that you like to look out your backyard   and you want to see The Greenery or a lake but 
not a hole is that right I don't have a problem   with cows out there I don't have a problem with 
the green out there I just don't want a hole 70   feet deep out there for kids to get into and if 
there was well and if for kids if there's fences   and buffers that would you wouldn't see the hole 
necessarily would you I'm afraid I would okay you   would so you would see over a 10 foot fence well 
in some places yes sir I can all right uh and you   would agree my Cent told you he was going to build 
his house there right he told me he was going to   build a house okay and actually the area where he 
said he was going to build the house is very close   to your house isn't it well the picture I saw was 
that he was going to build a house out between his   barn and the highway 995a right and the barn is 
the white right at the right where corner where   it goes up that's the white barn right yeah 
okay and he's going to turn the area of the   barn he he's going to build a house in that area 
right he told me he was going to build a house   out in front of the barn okay and um so ma'am you 
don't have so your issue is what the concern of   your well or what my concern is a pit with county 
code B saying that it's a th000 ft from bar pit   where information was that from a council right 
here at the table it's on this card right here   sir okay the issue of the 1000 the card references 
that 1000 I've read the County website every week   to see what's going on and I have read the codes 
pretty regular to know a little bit did you read   the code after meeting with uh councel for Mr 
Connor no sir okay I read it long before then   I've been in scambi county for 6 64 years and I 
have read the code for several years Mr Connor   came to my house but Mr Connor did not influence 
what I have have to say or what I've done okay and   you don't have a problem with the uh dump trucks 
there do you my grandson has dump trucks right so   and he has dirt pil up on his property right he 
does have dirt pil on his property but he does   not have a hole he has dirt he brings in dirt he 
does not have a hole that he has dug to dig dirt   out of did you put that pond in your property 
I did how did you did you dig the dirt out uh   hired someone to do it Mr Mr in yeah I well this 
is not going where we're we are getting far far a   f again uh I we're just far a field I don't think 
this is relevant to what we're here to to discuss   and uh if you have anything that's not related 
to that line a questioning I'd be glad for you   to continue but if not then I think we've pretty 
much heard this testimony more than once can I   say one other thing Mr Patterson goes out and 
plows his field he has a big John Deere tractor   with a triple disc on it and he gets out plowing 
sometimes and you can't even see the tractor for   the dust yes ma'am well thank you thank you 
for I live I live in the country and I love   it but I cannot open my windows for because of the 
Dust yes ma'am thank you very much thank you yes ma'am Paul Alexander is Mr Alexander with oh there he is thank you for coming Mr Alexander well I should 
have brought my sleeping bag raise your right hand   do you Alexander 5050 shag Road Molina Florida 
do you saw let me airm that the testimony you're   about to give will be the truth the whole truth 
and nothing but the truth Hopey God I do thank   you go more three minutes I don't know uh first 
of all on the wetlands there on his application   he said he's surrounded by undeveloped land 
all that on the west side is almost Wetlands   it is all Wetlands that's the upper part 
of Jack Branch Creek which is underneath   the federal clean act law that Creek goes all 
the way down into the Puro River out into the   Gulf so we need to have a federal clean act 
person in here to verify that's not going to   affect that Creek which I know it's going to the 
lady that if you'll go back to the 500 radius map lower leftand corner where it says r r go 
down three lots the Big Lot you go down   to that big lot right there that's mine I've 
got a well I'm within a th000 ft my biggest   question is going to be when he goes down deep 
enough is he going to interfere with the radon gas that's the biggest question as far as 
that and is is it going to interfere with   our wells my neighbor to the north of me 
the one with the orange hat Joseph Bell   I'm his Social Security benefactor I've 
been taking care of him 14 years he has   a well yes it is both hooked up to house 
we're on Molina water right now because   both our PS are out but my biggest 
question on top of all of this is is last time I was here I was on 
an oxygen tank three years ago um he says he's going to go down 40 50 feet 
what prevents him from going down 80 ft once   he gets the permit if he clears out 12 feet of 
dirt going down on his 44 Acres that's over a   half a million cubic feet of dirt figure out how 
many dump truck load that's going to be yeah and   what about the rule that says he can't have his 
trucks going out on a residential Road do you   agree to that isn't 95a actually a residential 
road with all them houses up and down that road   I've also got in knowledge that on my road Shag 
Road four people that I know of got these cards   that's got Wells I did not know about Kevin's 
house back over here but he also has a swimming   hole pond that's actually Springfed they 
go down 40 50 ft across the street from   him yes he's going to lose his spring fed 
Pond all right thank you very much [Music] may I speak in in Joy's place and I'm in 
charge of do I get three minutes for him   he can't come up here and speak what is the 
board the board of County Commissioners do   they I don't know if they allow that now I do 
not believe they do I don't no sir I'm sorry   do what now no sir I'm sorry that's 
not you don't get a voice jo oh Wesley Gunther could you face the our clerk Mr answer 
please raise your right hand do you Solly swear   and affirm that the testimony you're about 
to give will be the truth the whole truth   and nothing but the truth so you God yes ma'am 
thank you state your name and address Wesley   gunar 2980 kek Road Molino Florida thank you 
for coming sir and what could you tell us   please so several of the topics I was going 
to talk about have already been covered but   I was just going to touch based on Justin's 
character I've known him for several years um   we we've had several dilling with each other 
uh he's a good person he does have plans to   build a house there um he does want it to be 
a lake filled with water he does have I know   somebody said something about power earlier he 
does have power out there um so I mean we've   talked about him building the house out there 
several times so but besides that like I said   everything else has kind of already been touched 
based on okay thanks thank you sir thank you for coming Greg uh rosof good morning sir good morning do 
youly sp airm that the testimony you're   about to give will be the truth the whole truth 
another me the truth to you God I do thank you   state your name and address Greg Rossell 
561 Cedar toown Road molo Florida 32577 um so yes sir uh I'm libertarian what you 
want to do with your property 100% on you   um address the board oh I'm sorry um so uh 
I live right on the little the upper right   hand corner of the black line there um so long 
as there is no delarius effect by any property   owner on others around them do what you do 
it's yours um my concern is it's math um   if in fact we uh I understand you're going to 
potentially reduce the size from 44 acres in total   um originally I did the calculations on 60 foot of 
depth that's what I heard um 1,613 cubic yards per   acre foot uh gives you 4259 million cubic yards 
at 40ft depth with which is what I just heard so   we're looking at a 2.8 39 million uh cubic yards 
assuming 16 uh 16 cubic yards per truck with we're   looking somewhere between 266,000 and 177,000 
truckloads the attorney uh representing the owner   had said yes look there's a picture of a dump 
truck uh we've heard that uh the kites have dump   trucks absolutely we're talking about a quarter 
million truckloads of people coming up down and   I understand that the purview of this court does 
not necessarily uh take traffic into consideration   you just mentioned that however like Mr Lowry had 
said I have two young kids with a single dad and   my property is right on 95a I've we're exposed 
to a quarter million trucks over whatever some   period of time that has not yet been defined 
can't really be defined because of the market   conditions it it's not something I support so 
all right sir thank you very much Tammy Kirkland Tammy Kirkland 5115 Baro Park School Road Molino 
please raise your right hand do you sol me swear   and affirm that the testimony about to give will 
be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the   truth to be God yes thank you go ahead thank you 
um just a couple of concerns some of my other   concerns have already been addressed so I'll be 
brief um Mr Patterson has prior experience with   another uh uh p yet um so he kind of knows what 
he's going to be doing to the land and to the   neighborhood and to the surrounding residents 
um his plans could change uh he may intend to   build a house turn this into a lake 10 20 years 
we don't know um the concern is property values   in the area I know I would not want to buy land 
next to or close to uh a pit dirt pit whatever   you want to call it um so property values would be 
one thing um the heavy equipment that he knows is   going to that it's going to take to operate this 
pit um on top of the dump trucks it's going to be   these heavy machine things excavators whatever 
you want to call them um and the noise and the   everything that goes along with heavy equipment 
also uh to run that heavy equipment he's going   to have to haul in diesel Fuel and store uh 
big tanks of diesel on the property to fuel   these heavy equipment pieces um that would be 
another concern of that being out there um and   the amount of truck loads per day this gentleman 
put a figure to it um would be another concern   you know how many in and out a day uh compared 
to what's already there going up and down 995a   on a daily basis uh just other people people 
running other businesses with their trucks um   this would substantially just balloon into a a lot 
a lot of dump trucks going in and out um and then   my concern is for the wetlands and um when you 
look at that Wetland map and another gentleman   mentioned that we really need an um an expert 
a wetland expert person to tell us what's going   to happen to this if this is approved so that's 
my concerns thank you thank you ma'am uh Charles Sherwood this my wife Deb we can do two at 
once if you want one right after the other   okay that'll be fine more efficient all right 
well you both raise your right hand do you both   swallow me swear and affirm that the testimony 
you're about to give will be the truth the whole   truth and nothing but the truth so be God 
I do thank you state name and address uh   Charles Kevin Sherwood 812 Josh Lane De Sherwood 
812 Josh Lane yes ma'am well we we we'll do one   one at a time if you will you go ladies first all 
right okay um I had a few concerns that most of   the people before me have already addressed um 
but I do want to point out uh number one just because it Mr Miss kite's grandson or son 
or whoever has a dump truck on his property   doesn't mean that he is running dump trucks in 
and out we live straight across from where that   entrance an exit is going to be for this borrow 
pit if you approve it if you look at the map   Josh Lane is straight across from the entrance 
now on the it doesn't show it on the map but   if you go on Josh Lane in the pictures I mean 
you see a little bit of Josh Lane from that   one picture it's a dirt road then it goes 
downhill we live down there we have three   spring-fed ponds we just bought this property as 
our forever homes because he retired last year and   we can do that now we wanted to get back into 
the Panhandle area because this is home to us   after traveling with his job so we looked for 
this we found that 55 Acres down there plus   or minus with three ponds a lot of woods when it 
rains really hard or even just when it sprinkles   there are two Springs as Miss Ula said that goes 
down and goes goes across Josh Lane it they feed   into our ponds these are natural ponds they are 
not man-made on Josh Lane I don't think anybody   understands really because I don't think it's been 
pointed out there are four wet residences there's   Miss Ula there is her daughter there is another 
residents and then we are down at the very end   past the gate so there are four residences right 
right off of Josh Lane that are in well everybody   else would be in the thousands foot line where 
right right at ours is down so far we're right   at 1500 away from property straight across but 
I am so totally against this if we had known   that this was going on and we're probably going to 
be fighting it for the next 10 years because I'm   sure you're going to come up with another plan 
maybe change it a little bit and it's going to   keep coming back until this is until the property 
has been rezoned as is as the future plan States   to where it can't be there so I want to live 
out my on my forever home with our hunting land   with our fishing land with my Farmer where and 
our Wildlife that comes in there I'll let you   handle that one okay so all right basically yeah 
we bought this we're down in the hollow so p Miss   Ula and uh those two Springs she talked about is 
the ones that run down across I have to fix the   road even though the the county is supposed to 
come out and grade it every now then I have to   fix it in between because of the way the runoff 
comes so from Josh Lane which is where they're   going to be coming in and out of it's all downhill 
from there um we eat the fish out of the pond um   setting up stuff to hunt off the we're going 
to hunt off the land I got we didn't have much   time we've only been here about 5 months got some 
watermelons we're living off of that cuz I ain't   got time to do the rest of it right now we've been 
building taking out trees and clearing stuff and   and getting things done um and some of we're not 
doing it 12 hours a day yeah no I'm going to sit   down I'm keep interrupting that's way M Yul knows 
I'm doing something is when I cut something down   so yes we don't the noise uh we have a tax dermis 
it's about 980 ft to our South the woods Echo oh   so when he's him and his I think it's his wife 
or we talking over their porch we're sitting on   our porch we hear having a conversation so the 
noise from those dump trucks and stuff like that   it's going to be complet especially 6 to six right 
you're going to hear that all the time it's going   to mess with the wildlife the dust covering trees 
we got um and that runoff right there at Josh Lane   there's a covert that goes underneath 95 5 a that 
goes down in my Woods coming from that property   so that's going to affect it as well one of the 
bigger things is though we sat up way too late   last night and watched the 2022 same issue here to 
get it educated I I don't like to come talking to   people dumb there's no difference all these same 
issues are the same thing that was turned down   two years ago what's changed so is this just 
something that every six months or a couple   years we just got to come back and rehash even 
though it's already been decided and turned down I mean we're just trying to live out the rest 
of our life on this property in peace get along   with our neighbors and I've have heard things 
like I said I can't say that it's here sa but   I've heard some discouraging comments against 
other people and threats and I don't think that's   good for a community we're we're just moving in 
we want to be part of the community I want to   be part of the wildlife growing things and helping 
each other out and have peace this ain't been very   peaceful and I'll tell you and to talk about 
dump structs up and down that road I've been   watching that real quick and I I'll stop I've been 
watching that every one of those dump trucks going   up and down 995a even the school buses you look at 
their tires on the right side because to keep from   hitting the car on the other side they're running 
that white line with their right side now I've   been watching that the last week or two all right 
thank you sir we appreciate your comments can I   comment ask question well actually sir you're 
represented that's your attorney's prerogative okay you understand from what my client is saying 
he wants to build a house there too right that's   that's what I'm hearing he wants to do and he 
wants to build a pond on that property right well 40 let's see 44 Acres I 
don't care about size but that deep it's going to he wants to build he wants 
to make regardless of what it is he he wants   to make this his forever home isn't that what he 
said okay and by the way did you get the letter   from Mr Connor's pamplet that he ran around 
handing out I've seen one of them have you   talked to him yes okay and he told you he tried 
to convince you that he was going to do something   toxic on this property didn't he no that's what 
the letter says didn't it that ain't what we   talked about but that's what the letter says 
I don't I don't think it does a c of it okay   all right gentlemen gentlemen so so the question 
is he got you all stirred up didn't he no he got   us informed okay and we're smart enough to go out 
and look at stuff up ourselves you call including   this meeting did you ever call my client I 
don't have a phone number did you never to call gentlemen gentlemen gentlemen 
hey you don't live there gentlemen gentlemen this isn't productive it's this 
isn't productive this is give and take uh   and uh it's just not productive to 
what the decision the board has to   make I appreciate your comments sir uh 
but I think you're I think I'm done yes sir uh W Henderson I'm sorry it's Jaquita oh I'm sorry uh 
Miss Henderson thank you for coming hi um please   raise your right hand do you Solly swear and 
affirm that the testimony you're about to give   will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but 
the truth s be God yes thank you state your name   and address uh I am Jaquita Parker Henderson I 
live in Atlanta so does my two sisters this is   is air property that my grandmother my great 
grandmother my great great grandmother owned   before her $55.95 a um we are in Probate right 
now my mom just passed um uh last December so um   we got the letter and I just wanted to come 
and kind of see what this was all about I'm   convinced more than ever I don't want this um 
our goal is to keep this property and our family   we three Parcels to pass down to our children 
I don't know that any of my kids would want   to live next to a borrow pit I'm also concerned 
about the impact of the Dust on the cemetery my   entire family both sides are in that Cemetery my 
mom my dad my grand maternal and paternal every   Aunt every cousin everybody and so I'm sitting 
there thinking dust is going to be everywhere   and we do come in and pay people to help keep 
that Cemetery clean because it matters to us so   um as far as we're concerned we're opposed I get 
that you know progress happens and people move   on but when this has been a part of something 
that's been in your family for over a hundred   years is kind of an emotional attachment so I'm 
not I'm not I've not been convinced listening   to the testimony that they're going to be enough 
safeguards to make sure that the property is safe   the environment safe the cemetery is safe and 
that whatever barrier will be put up is going   to stop all that dust from moving around that's 
it I can just to clarify you said that your was   5595 okay that's my client's address aren't you 
just so clear you are of the property to the B   to the bottom right correct um yeah bottom right 
of the yes is that nobody lives on that property   right nope it's all Timberland right it's not all 
Timberland nobody lives on it no a bunch of trees   in it um it's a it's a house there too okay thank 
you ma'am we appreciate it your testimony uh Cody Panic do you Sly s air about the testimony 
you're about to give will be the truth the   whole truth and nothing but the truth so help 
you got I do thank you my name is Cody panzic   I live at 5675 Highway 95 a North I'm just 
north of what this picture shows here but   my property is within a th000 feet of his 
so on S many other things have been said   today one of my biggest concerns is water 
contamination when it sits there it's going   to go second things decompose it affects the 
water on top of that you have animal safety   animals are going to fall into that pit it's going 
to happen and then as those decomposed too that's   further contamination level and on top of that we 
want to keep our Wildlife around there and then   we have autistic children autistic children are 
notorious for getting out they don't care about   gays they don't care about no trespassing signs 
they can fall in that pit as well and on top   of that living in a rural agricultural Community 
one of the many Treasures that we get to have is   our animals we have livestock one of the biggest 
livestock around there is chickens chickens are   very sensitive to dust in the air they have very 
sensitive respiratory systems dust in the air is   going to hurt them it's going to hurt all animals 
and you cannot put enough trees around that to   stop dust you can't put trees above it to stop 
dust it's going to happen and it's going to affect   the animals it's going to affect us dust into our 
lungs is not healthy it can cause cancer I've been   through cancer before and I'm not trying to do it 
again that's not what I want in my area it's not   what I want for why I'm trying to build my family 
it's not welcome here that's all I have thank you Robert Millan uh 6080 sudor Town Road I okay Mr not with us uh Joshua Robertson all right Craig exer 4601 Highway 196 thank you sir do you Solly swear and affirm 
that the testimony you're about to give will be   the truth the whole truth and nothing but the 
truth stop you God I do thank you state your   name and address my name is Craig cner and I live 
at 4601 Highway 196 Molina Florida and uh I would   like to take a little bit of my time to uh thank 
the members of the board for coming and hearing   a dispute that's happening in our community 
uh I know that you don't get a lot of thank   yous but I want to say it thank you uh my problem 
that I'm having has to do with the Wetland I am   former president of the baram park historical 
society and baram park goes to Old 29 958 and   we have Jack's branch which starts in Molina the 
headwaters flows down and eventually comes into uh   pod River but it's a different item in the sense 
that it flows from the East to the West probably   Headwaters probably wouldn't be the best 
thing to say it would probably be spring   heads as you've heard folks have Springs there 
a deep pit such as this probably would end the   water flow in those Springs the water does not 
flow in a big river TI Ty of item and because   of that it takes a long time to get from Molina 
over to beral park so I would urge you to think   about that and different also one thing that 
your staff did not put into you is is there any   historical impact on the area we just mentioned uh 
the young lady that has land and she has relative   buried who knows there may be folks that 
are actually buried on the land that he's   going to dig up people buried them in their 
backyards that's where they put people didn't   have money for funerals didn't have it so 
I urge you as you deliberate uh to vote   no on this and again thank you for your 
volunteer [Music] service thank you sir Bonnie uh Bonnie exner yes ma'am yeah that's ma' I swear you first do you Solly swear and 
affirm that the testimony you're about to give   will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but 
the truth hope you God I do thank you state your   name and address good afternoon my name is Bonnie 
exner I live at 4601 Highway 196 Molina Florida   and mine is going to be short and sweet I just 
have three questions to pose to this entire body   first question is a conditional borrow pit I don't 
see anything conditional about a big old hole like   y'all are talking about that's my first question 
second question has any of the new conditions   popped up since the other two denials I don't see 
any but I wasn't here so I just leave it to y'all   third question if you as a board member would you 
uh want a big old pit next to your residential   home in conclusion I'm a retired teacher from 
Mambi County Public Schools very proud of and I   taught at Wedgewood Middle School and I have seen 
the devastation that they have carried through   and I urge you to deny this this permit I don't 
believe it's compatible with the adjacent property   in the immediate area as per 
your LDC section 2- 6.4 thank you thank you ma'am Jacqueline Rogers do solom affirm that the testimony you're 
about to give will be the truth the whole truth   and nothing but the truth so you God thank you 
okay I'm going to go really quickly since three   minutes is long but um so I'm going to speak to 
the criteria in the first part Miss Rogers will   you state your name and address Sor my name 
is jackellen Rogers can i p this up my name   is Jack Wen Rogers and I live at 1420 Ridgeway in 
cantonement um I'm asking the board to deny this   application because it does not meet the Criterion 
and I'm going to say which ones a general compa   compatibility it's not compatible with the 
surrounding adjacent properties um the there's   testimony you've already heard that there's 
portable water wells there even irrigation w Wells   that'll irrigate Agriculture and livestock cannot 
be contaminated this um property owner May alter   the water table and I'll talk a little bit about 
that too when a bar pit is there they have to keep   the water out to dig the dirt and that will change 
the flooding and the the storm water composure so   it's not with residential that's why you have a 
thousand foot criteria with residential so close   it could it cause flooding adjacent neighbors 
and it has in Wedgewood that has been a problem   Criterion B is facilities um there are not 
adequate facilities and I'm talking here   roadways which I'll I'll put in with Criterion C 
too the on-site circulation you saw a picture of   the road there are no shoulders on there when you 
have constant truck traffic and we're not talking   about an occasional dump truck that is coming 
to service a resident bring me a load of dirt or   we're going to have a subdivision built in within 
a year you're talking about potentially years of   traffic school bus is going the opposite way with 
no shoulders that's not good you're talking about   um Criterion D nuisance dust noise vibration no 
matter how much you're going to try and suppress   it it's ESP specially it's constant traffic 
in and out um and that's how you make money   it's constant traffic it's not occasional the 
buffering you cannot buffer adequately staff   will say that they'll put adequate buffering 
in but the neighborhood that's right adjacent   to mine that's going in it was a conservation 
neighborhood they assured us there'd be buffering   they went right up to the property line there's 
no buffering natural vegetation in this situation   has been removed because the applicant has put 
a a pig pen Hog Pen on the property line so all   the base vegetation the lower stuff that would 
stop dirt is gone that there house in a lake is   house in a lake is proposed I'm going to tell you 
why I'm here to support my community I had a bar   pit go in in my neighborhood roads Inc owner Cody 
rosson said the same thing I'm putting a vacation   home and a lake in he never did that he went all 
the way down into the sand in the aquafer we had   constant trucks coming in I'm talking lined up 
five to eight trucks coming in going out they make   noise because they have to dump the truck you hear 
the bang you hear the bang it hits a it hits a um   bump in the road you're going to hear a bang too 
pits Offa Highway 29 that he's talking about our   Highway 29 that's a highway 995a has residential 
Highway Criterion H the environmental impact to   the surrounding residents in the Wetland area 
you've like he said that goes to Jack's branch   which goes to Puro uh river which goes to the bay 
and the wells the the staff I wanted to question   um cross-examine and I just want to say this one 
thing Mr day I live in Cottage Hill Waterworks th   that's not on their Maps Cottage Hill Waterworks 
has maps that is for the community Molina has   Wells that's not on their Maps is that public is 
that protected thank you ma'am we appreciate it uh Calvin D Dixon maybe do you solemnly swear and affirm 
that the testimony you're about to give   will be the truth the whole truth 
and nothing but the truth help you   gu thank you state your name and address 
uh Calvin Dixon uh 9585 caral Brook Drive um my family owns the property right there next to 
the red line going all the way to 95a both sides   of the street and we have not had any contact from 
him asking for permission or any type of courtesy   about what he's doing based on what he's talking 
about my property majority of his buffer is going   to be my property so I don't understand how that's 
Justified as being able to be to be done so um I'm   definitely against it my family is against it we 
have future plans that we're in discussions about   and that's definitely going to be a hindrance on 
us moving forward for as value or anything else of   our property that's it quick question do you live 
on the propert no you live in uh sir I'm sorry   oh oh I'm sorry go ahead go ahead go ahead you 
you don't live on the property right no are you   related to the lady that came up a few moments ago 
lived in Atlanta no but she had she pointed that   was the same property she said something beneath 
that all of my above Shawn road I don't know   nothing about that right there so where you the 
whole area she the red line is it goes straight   down the long the long that one there everything 
to the right of that on that side and across the   stre street is my family right that's what we were 
talking about earlier with that lady how you're   where do you live I mean you live in Pensacola or 
yeah I live in pensac okay and is your family's   land or yours my family property okay so how is 
he to know to contact you he didn't okay right   but but if it it's it's all it's all documented 
it's not comp me it's my family my mother my other   older family members I spoke to nothing never 
been contact and again I've actually spoke to um okay that's okay so but but it's just 
right now it's trees on the property right   uhhuh okay all right and it's also tree 
some of the trees on my client's property   correct uh looks like yeah right there 
all right that's all but that's going   enough to be the buffer okay thank you 
sir we appreciate your testimony I'm   sorry I didn't mean to interrupt you I 
thought you were the someone behind you um Aaron still waterer or or yes I'll go 
last got to here okay all right you will   join with uh I did that saw well you 
can join with Miss Hustler and Y all   you two will have the swan song all right um Britt Gunther Mr uh 9 [Music] 9890 oh jeez I'm not sure I can make 
this one out uh Brett uh maybe gun or Gunter Brent is there a Brent okay if you signed up at the end 
and didn't get a chance to speak uh let   me know I may have just uh uh read you and 
couldn't read you uh I couldn't read your   name correctly uh which is on me uh 
Mr Irving Scott is Mr Scott with us today Mr Scott okay James koven Mr koven with us today okay Cynthia Robbins this Miss Robins Robinson 
with us 30 uh 5367 Highway 990 95 James H Von Mr Von okay uh honestly I 5184 is that you sir okay all right good 
I'm glad I finally got got one yeah could   you raise your right hand and face the clerk 
please do you Solly swear and affirm that the   testimony you're about to give will be the 
truth the whole truth and nothing but the   truth I'll be God I do thank you state your name 
and address Kevin El Keener 184 Side Road and if   y'all have a pointer or I'll come up here cuz I 
don't want nobody to get lost we we need you at   the mic sir well I need to I want to say okay 
see all that blue watered coming down through   there okay right below you that first part 
that's me okay all that blue water shed is   low all right and everything else is H sound 
goes through that watered like an amplifier   and if you don't you want to hear backup on off 
I've Done Construction worked on heavy equipment I   had old well business I maintained uh equipment to 
hold 2,000 cubic yards a day for 7 n months a year   for 12 years out of paper mill to the South and 
look here and the tailgate slam you talking about   they do that when they dump so it slams and knocks 
the dirt out of a truck I'm not against anybody   man doing what he wants to do on his property 
as long ass is goar with everybody else but   look here if you sit on my back porch and listen 
to those backup horns it's not beep beep beep it's   I talking about me you we can't hear each other 
and when it tell get slamed you you jump I mean   you see that blue how it comes right in the middle 
of your property and still it comes together well   on that corner that water set goes that's the 
head of Jack B is straight comes out okay and I'm   tell you about your depth because the man that 
build these whes I also maintain his equipment   and and it changed for my well I'm going to tell 
you what he's sitting on because 30 years ago the   water company tried to buy my property because of 
what's under that ground and your depth is what's   got you messed up all that all these ponds that's 
a 6 to 26 water table you hit water at 6ot to 26t   okay at 55 foot you going to hit that oer it stay 
I'm I was right there this ain't here say I was   right right there with the drill B you know you 
water it's chattering you collected what's coming   out the blue crystals uh I water C I got I'm 
sitting on some of the best water in the count and   it does look here if you get to that next water 
table you gone too far 6 to 26 that's what all the   water that's everybody's ponds that's the Springs 
you below that you going to knock the bottom out   and this is my concern and that uh watered every 
form of wildlife known to exist in North West   Florida is in that water I thought Panthers 
snakes there's moxin in there they'll bite   you in the face from the ground M that big Ratt 
snakes like that and he's driving them all that   that you're driving all of it out of that watered 
over to the other side most of us coming up in my   yard to that watered right there oh I'm going 
have to relocate something I'm tired of killing   the snakes here the last couple of months with 
that little bit of work you did earlier that   bang bang it drove them it's hurting them too 
thank you okay thank you sir uh L uh Bellamy   is Miss Miss Bellamy with us okay um Sarah wall 
won she's with me I'm with him so I'm not oh all   right thank you ma'am and so we turn to the our 
last two uh don Hustler or would you like to be first all right well then Mr Stillwater 
will we look forward to hearing you   hey you got my name right both halves except for I 
thought a wrong yeah well I guess Aron Stillwater   3325 South Highway 97 Canton Florida do you Solly 
SP affirm that the testimony you're about to give   will be the truth the whole truth and nothing 
but the truth so thank you I do um I don't live   by y'all I live over on 97 behind Divine farm so 
I've had firsthand knowledge of how Justin runs   a pit now he started originally with a partner 
so that was a little bit different and I think   they even had a few hurdles they had to jump 
along the way so hurdle jumping he's gotten   pretty good at now we get better as we jump more 
hurdles in life that's who Banks us right so what   I have found you go by the Wedgewood pit it's 
clean there's dust control there's sprinklers   on the ground so whoever's worried about plying 
a field I can promise you there's less dust com   from the pit than there is any field I've ever cut 
any bushhoging I've ever ever done or any discing   I've ever done so any of y'all ever done that and 
Brea had it had to breathe it you already know   Divine Farms everybody's talking about property 
value ain't Iron Rock being built right on 97   that's a fine houses right there and all the way 
up 97 right there's no production not stopping it   hasn't slowed anything down now I hate that it's 
going to upset a few people but I also thought   aren't there other entities that make sure this 
just First Step you can dig a hole put a shovel   in the ground next step is somebody else comes 
and tells them hey those trees ain't ready you   got more sprinklers need to go down right is that 
correct that's a question so if you're you know   you're going to always upset the people that are 
around you and I thought I was going to be upset   being next to dirt people for one they're usually 
not emptying dump trucks y'all they're filling   them and Hauling them out now you might hear a 
excavator or a loader bucket tape of side here   and there and you're right it does well wherever 
you went it does travel down the sound a little   but not always sometimes when the wind blows 
right you'll hear anything anywhere uh so Jus   is shown to be responsible he's shown to work with 
communities as best he can you know you just got   to give him a chance so from a character witness 
have known him for almost 10 years now well like   I said old uh Divine was uh I tell you I'll give 
him a chance but here's other thing he already   told you he's already started with the small 
permit first which I think that's how Divine   was like 20 then about wore them out and they 
couldn't provide enough dirt at that point in time   because they had to ask for more and got delayed 
there so he's asking for more more now plan on   doing less but anybody that thinks you can get 
44 Acres dug and I mean you it takes a long time   to fill dump trucks all day long I mean you're 
no doesn't just blow out of the ground that'd   be nice but everybody' be doing it then so I say 
go for it okay thank you sir and Miss Hollister oh well good afternoon I thought it was still 
morning do you Solly SP and affirm that the   testimony about to give will be the truth the 
whole truth and nothing but the truth help you   God so help me God thank you state your name 
and address name is Don Hollister my physical   address is 10,1 North P Fox um I debated heavily 
about whether or not to speak which is one of the   reasons I asked the board to delay my my speaking 
um and to be perfectly transparent I do work for   attorney talbet and know Mr Patterson that way 
but I am also a new Resident to Pensacola I sold   a $450,000 home on a golf course in a very heavily 
developed area very far north of here and this for   me was supposed to be my quiet step back my my 
step of peace I wanted a quieter environment I'm   tired of the buildup I'm tired of the trucks I'm 
tired of the overdeveloped I've been through the   issues with the wells I've been through the issues 
with the noise I've been through I've raised 13   children they're now grown and I want peace and 
quiet and a thought keeps coming to my mind I   hear all your concerns and I've met Mr Patterson 
and most of you don't know him personally and   what I've met is a person who is a lot humbler 
than he may come across probably because he's   really nervous and he's trying really hard to do 
the right thing by everybody he genuinely cares   about this community's input and how it impacts 
his neighbors he's taken every possible precaution   and has taken steps and jumping through every hoop 
thrown his way to make sure this is done the right   way for him and one thought keeps coming in my 
mind and I asked him and and actually if it's   okay can I ask Mr Patterson a question because I 
have not asked him I haven't asked him directly   may I may I ask Mr Patterson a question no ma'am 
we okay we're okay my my concern is in an area   that I've just moved to to avoid the noise and the 
chaos and the overdevelopment that's a huge chunk   of land and if he didn't pick it up and look and 
develop his permanent home on it eventually yes   he may be he's trying to make a dollar while he's 
putting up his home that's the American way he's   doing it in a way that that pays for his long-term 
dream he's trying to be a responsible citizen if   he doesn't build there who's going to BU there 400 
new homes with permanent traffic for the next 100   years extra extra capacity issues with your local 
schools and everything else that's an extra tax   burden on the community where's that tax burden 
going to fall that's going to fall on me as a new   citizen that's going to fall on every one of you 
that's going to fall on your children and your   grandchildren who own that property after you so 
longterm wise I am absolutely as a as a citizen   and not as someone who works for Mr talbet but 
as somebody who's new to the community I don't   want a huge another Super Development coming in 
with 400 new homes I would rather see something   there that's maybe seem inconvenient at the 
time but over the long term where my children   are going to come visit my grandchildren are 
come going to come [Applause] visit thank you   thank you ma'am board that is the end of our 
speakers list is there there anyone who hasn't   spoken that would like to speak well could you 
fill out of blue slip Mr uh you can fill that up afterwards please raise your right hand do you 
somly swear and affirm that the testimony you're   about to give will be the truth the whole 
truth and nothing but the truth so help you   God I do thank you state your name and address 
Michael Mack 2201 Nolan fauler Court cantonement   Florida uh 32533 um my dad and I purchased the 
property uh just to the west of his property on   the other side of the branch yeah 40 acres right 
there um I don't know M Mr Patterson's character   I think it's irrelevant to this topic to be 
honest I mean there's a reason that there's   a contingent use on putting in borrow Pits on AG 
agriculture property I understand this isn't one   house that's on a farm somewhere that happens to 
be within a th feet of this Barrow pit this is I   can't count them all what 15 20 homes within 
1,000 feet of this B pit I talked last time   I'm going to make the same statement have any of 
you ever seen a borrow pit have you ever been to one do you want to live by one none of these 
people do nobody around here wants to live by   one nobody who lives in that Community wants to 
live by one I mean that should be enough to make   a decision there doesn't need to be a barit in 
the community doesn't need to be there period it   has nothing to do with character I don't know the 
guy don't don't care to know the guy it doesn't   it doesn't matter to me that's not the point 
the point is there's going to be a 40ft deep   hole 44 44 acres big in this pit could he build 
a house later maybe we don't know that there's no   guarantee that he's going to fill it up with water 
and make a lake and put a house on it no guarantee   whatsoever there's no way you can guarantee that 
what if he dies halfway through this and somebody   else buys it out you never know what's going to 
happen with it you have no idea so that's my piece   I'm against it thank you sir yes could you oh uh 
could you fill out a blue slip uh Mr talot has a   question did you buy your property from Aon yes 
okay the properties owned by home your property   40 acres Mac properties of Northwest Florida y are 
property a Housing Development no we build custom   homes but did you buy them what are you going to 
do with this property no idea yet depends on if   there's a borrow pit behind it did Eric well and 
did Eric Clon tell you about disclose to you that   this had had application for a b to me personally 
no I can't speak on behalf of my dad okay and   actually I think one of his agents was here 
you didn't know that no okay and uh but that's all thank you sir please fill out the blue 
slet thank you uh board now we have heard   from everyone who wants to speak uh and we have 
reached the point uh towards the end uh we do have   uh you have two witnesses you want to call if I 
understand that's correct and is and uh well I'll   tell you what why don't you go ahead and call your 
Witnesses now Mr Mayor is Mr day in the house also   Mr today could you stand by I would I think the 
Boardman have a question or two for you uh William   Merill 1164 fence Drive I've already been sworn 
in yes Mr Merl do you have a group of exhibits there I want to show you what is exhibit four 
we're entitled to copy exhibits well we haven't   seen any exhibits either so um Mr chairman these 
were emailed to staff yesterday uh it didn't make   it in the packet and so you would need to accept 
it yes all right well I'll tell you what why don't   we get them and let us look at it and then we can 
we were told to submit a by three yesterday was   well I'm sure that you did oh uh let us look and 
look at what we're talking about and then we'll   make a decision on accepting theend and then 
then at that point we'll turn it over to you   okay well should I ask the witness questions 
now and then introduce the exhibit later uh   I think let us look at the exhibits I think 
that might be quicker just theit look at the exibit do you have any do you do you have a copy 
yes they were sent and I looked through them   yesterday I okay would tell you there's going 
to be portions of this that I'm going to tell   you are U not relevant and our objection would 
be to that one of the reasons I need to or we   need to look at them uh if you've got something 
to pass around we can we can pull it up for you   all right well okay why don't we do that or is 
that acceptable you know we've had this situation   arise before about exhibits uh do we know how many 
exhibits we're talking about how many well we you   we are in suspense also sir and we 
will know shortly if you'll just   watch the monitor you're going to see 
what we're going to see I promise okay okay okay well I was just I can do that I may 
not need to present all of them I just want   to present the ones that this witness would be 
talking about first let's start with exhibit four all right tell you what before you get started 
let us look through these that's normally what   we do and then the board will decide whether 
or not to accept them in if they're accepted   in then of course we'll turn them over to you 
to uh have Mr yall do that I just don't know   procedurally what you would like us to do no well 
I tell you what just let us look through the ones   that you intend to offer where what I'm trying 
to do is get them on the record well that's fine   I'm just doing it however you want me to do is 
what I'll do all right and I just want copies of   them so we can at least have an opportunity 
to object to certain items because well yes   sir you're going to have you have in front of 
you I hope no sir I don't have any anything I   the due process there's nothing up there no so 
there's one copy up here but uh we we do we I   think we're entitled to some time at least to find 
out what he's planning to do and look through them   and uh uh assert any objections Well I this 
exhibit uh at the very end of a hearing is is problematic I can only tell you 
this that the board hasn't seen them   and has to make a decision on whether or not 
that they are accepted into evidence if they're   not accepted in the evidence then that's the end 
of the matter if they are at that point we can   look at whatever objections each side or comments 
each side has got but right now the Board needs   to look at them Mr chairman it just so you know 
it's it's it's broken out uh and marked by each   exhibit if he's going to use them individually 
as the exhibits it is 67 total Pages oh okay well that's let me let me suggest Mr Godwin that 
some of those exhibits aren't necessary for   where we are in this case at this time all 
right I think that the exhibit number one   which is one page exhibit number number 
two which is one page exhibit number   three which is one page and exhibit number 
four which is one page pretty much is what   I would like in ter and exhibit five which 
is a couple of pages uh one page rather is   what we need to do at this point all 
right then let's start with exhibit one Mr Toot do you see exhibit one yes I have a 
all right sir why don't you tell us what that is   and we will board I think probably we're going 
to have to just take each one individually and   we'll hear what the explanation is and then I 
guess we'll vot at that point vote to accept or   reject them into evidence all right sir number 
one Mr Marl do you recognize that I'm sorry he   coughed I didn't hear the rest of that do you 
recognize that exhibit I've seen that exhibit   yes sir what is it uh it's an aerial photograph 
of um the Molina area including the Patterson   pit or oriented sorry North is to your right 
if that helps okay could we admit that exhibit and Mr Merl uh can you tell us about this 
exhibit where was it uh when was it taken   who took it what does it port to represent 
and uh things like that Mr Marl if you didn't   take the picture or prepare the document 
I'll move on and we'll have Mr Mr Conor's   I did not prepare the exhibit so let's go 
to exhibit four so maybe we might move this along did you prepare exhibit 4 I did all would 
you tell the board what exhibit for depicts   yes this is a taken from Google Earth aerial 
photograph uh overlaid on it is an outline of the   uh pit that came from the engineers plan that's 
in your package and there's several other other   arrows and descriptors to different residences 
and wells in the mean area that we knew about you prepared it I did I move it submission 
into evidence for this proceeding I would we OB   call for hearsay um this is uh in only other 
way he can find out he has not laid a proper   predicate as to his knowledge of residences 
will Wells Etc and the only way he can find   that out is to take somebody else's word for 
it that's hear say Mr Godwin this is a quasi   judicial proceeding rules are con construed 
liberally Mr Tal's objection based upon hearsay   is quite frankly under the circumstances of 
this kind of proceeding quite irregular we've   done this previously the staff has produced 
photos the staff is is given reports based   on what they've heard from other people this 
witness can testify about what he put on this   and where the information came from he hasn't 
done that yet let him testify he's going to   testified about it let him find out where 
he got that information from Mr Merill uh   what sources did you consult to prepare the uh 
legend that is on the map most of it is from the   skimy County Property Appraisers I also visited 
the site um and that's how I located Mr Conor   well and his house um uh Wetlands for example 
how did you come up with that particular was that   from what source that came from the plans that 
uh this application submitted Wetland Sciences   uh located those wetlands and I overlaid 
them on the aerial okay all right uh board any comments on this exhibit it appears to me that uh it's   an acceptable representation 
of where what we're dealing with do we hear a motion on it I'll I'll make 
the motion that we accept this into evidence uh   for further decision all right I'll second we have   a second all those in favor of accepting 
exibit number four may I have a second   may I have a second second Marty 
thank you all right all those in favor and Sir if I can for record is he limited to 
the three minutes like everybody else was no uh he   is uh appearing as an expert so okay so then that 
situation same thing Mr Connor would be limited to   three minutes Mr Connors is my client correct 
he's just like anybody else everybody else is   limited to three minutes so Mr Connor we need to 
if we're gonna move this along Mr Connor should   be limited to three minutes as well we addressed 
this issue at the beginning yes no we we did we   didn't have a no uh Mr T but uh when Mr Connors 
appears we will uh we may discuss this further   but at this point we're dealing with Mr Merill Mr 
Merill is an expert and and he is uh I think the   board is entitled to hear his expert opinion 
and which is not going to be three minutes I would I'm sorry I can't hear you oh 
yes so you got your motions and then Ved uh yes yes uh the uh motion we voted and it 
passed unanimously we accepted the exhibit into   evidence thank you Mr Merl how many residences are 
within a th000 ft of the site for the proposed pit   I calculated 27 it could be a couple 
less because there's some transient   trailers there I wasn't sure but it's 
it's 25 to 27 within a th000 ft of the pit that's correct have you any information with 
respect to how close the proposed pit will be to   the well on Mr Connor's property yes his well 
is fairly close to the property line you got   a 50 foot buffer proposed it's about 70 ft his 
well is 70 feet from the pit from the from the   pit how about the well on Miss D's property 
how close to the actual pit will that be or   is it it's just under 200 ft are you aware of 
any other Wells within 500 ft of the proposed   pit not specifically but I heard today that 
there's probably others in the area we don't   know about the witnesses who testified previously 
have said they've had Wells that's correct or do   have wells do you U understand or do you have an 
opinion with respect to whether this particular   pit will be susceptible of transition to a lake 
or a pond well I guess in this application which   I don't remember getting one the last time there 
was a Reclamation pit plan that showed a a lake   on it so we've got two plans we've got Engineers 
plans and then following those is a Reclamation   plan and if you look at those two he shows uh 
digging down about 5050 fet for the um for the   borrow pit but when you look at where he's digging 
and then in the Reclamation plan there's no water   shown on areas where he's digging so the two plans 
um are inconsist inconsistent so I don't know how   that Reclamation plan could be implemented unless 
the engineering plan is going to be altered down   the line or the third possibility and probably 
the um you know one that doesn't make the most   sense to me is that he bring a bunch of fill 
back in to then shape it but in my opinion the   two plans there's not not enough detail on the 
Reclamation plan to really form a real opinion   but I don't see I see the two in conflict and and 
pretty significant conflict Mr Merl you appeared   and testified in connection with the application 
in 2021 did you not that's correct and so you are   are familiar with that application I am you 
appeared and testified in connection with the   application in 2022 did you not I did and you're 
familiar with that application I am how does the   current application differ from the prior two 
applications well the current application is   basically identical to the 2022 application other 
than there was an addition of a Reclamation plan   that I don't remember from the 2020 2 plan I 
didn't have it in my files the 2021 um and and   2022 plans are very very similar but I remember 
they added some buffering on the on particularly   the south side but I I think on a couple other 
sides the buffering that's on the current plan   is it the same buffering that was on the 2022 
plan that's correct were you here when the board   voted 60 in favor of denying that application I 
was buer is the same now as it was then that's correct is the location of the pit the same in the 
current application as in the prior two yes what   is the what is your understanding of how long a 
borrow pit operates or can operate well I mean it   can operate indefinitely I mean it's going to come 
down to um how fast they removed the material but   you know and we don't know we don't know what that 
takeown rate is so I I worked through a bunch of   examples and tried to figure out I mean they're in 
excess of 100,000 probably more truck trips coming   out of there 100,000 truck trips 100,000 truck 
trips um so I mean for example if a truck left   every 30 minutes six days a week eight hours a day 
day or at 20s something years in likely and that   that includes holidays rains recessions um granted 
they'll be a little faster rate at sometimes but   I'm looking at average rate 20 years 20 and when 
does the pond become a lake according to this plan   it would be after the pit after they were done 
Excavating the pit and then they would reclaim   the land so the the pond or the Reclamation with 
be conceivable 20 in fact likely 20 years hence I agree what is the effect if you know 
of this 60 foot 40 plus acre hole in   the ground on the adjoining 
Wetlands well objection he's   he's not been established as an expert 
with regard to Wetland science he's a engineering I stand by the witness's competence 
to testify as an expert especially on a matter   having to do with a 60 foot 40 plus acre hole in 
the ground next to a wetland that is an absolute   falsity and I want to make sure it's clear on 
the record he is not digging a 60 foot hole 40   acres it's a sloped piece of property so when you 
had testimony talk about how many cubic feet a 60   foot down is over 40 acres that's not what we're 
talking about it's going to be stange Mr talin   first of all let me observe that I'm sure you 
misspoke I'm sure that you didn't intend to say   falsity you may say that it was incorrect but 
I don't think it was what I would understand a   falsity to be now as to your objection uh um 
I also would like to know we have recognized   Mr Merill as a civil engineer I uh I have no 
uh issue with you requesting that he uh tell   us about how he is a Wetlands expert also now 
if that's your objection and your comment then   it's well founded in my opinion is that your yes 
sir that was my objection to his qualifications   on the wetlands issue okay Mr Merl can you tell 
us how your Wetlands uh we fully respect your   civil engineering abilities and you're like I 
said before well known to the county in that   area now tell us about your Wetland experience 
be able to offer that opinion I permitted a a   lot of wetland field projects um and have 
dealt extensively with Wetlands but I I'm   not stating that I'm a Wetlands expert so you're 
not stating you're a Wetlands expert uh Mr Bates   I don't think your question is Germain you don't 
have Mr Merill stated he doesn't know he's not a   a wetland expert Mr Merill can you tell from the 
application Department thank you I won't pursue   that further yeah Mr Merill can you tell me from 
the application what the nature of the buffer is   I cannot I know that there's some engineering 
plans that came with it and it the the wording   on it varied in some places it said vegetated 
natural buffer and other areas it said vegetated   landscape buffer and it there there's just not 
enough detail for me to say what's going there   is natural vegetation an effective buffer it 
can be over a long time and it it depends um   depends on how thick how much um how wide um do 
you know that the Land Development code ultimately   will prohibit borrow pits at or near existing 
residential uses I object it's argumentative   it's a compound question do you know I rework do 
you know what the Land Development code intends   to or is going to provide or does provide for 
Effective I think 2030 about Wells and borrow pits   I do know that uh the scami county comp plan 
there's a section 12 in the comp plan and it   and I understand the comp plan is what drives the 
Land Development code but comp plan talks about   uh resource extracting and basically Mining and 
one section says additional resource extraction   in the form of Bor pits will be prohibited AB 
buding state and federal parks within floodlands   or near existing in residential uses and it goes 
on to discuss residential zoning districts and   subdivisions so I presume because the comp the 
2030 comp plan is prohibiting borrow pits adjacent   to residential or near residential um homes that 
that's where they would ultimately go all right as   far as the Land Development code in the comp plan 
uh do you have a view or an opinion about why they   would prohibit in the future for all residential 
areas not a conditional use exception but a Prohibition well I'm assuming it's to prevent 
the kind of quality the quality of life issues   every sir please and your objection my objection 
is it calls for speculation and it calls for the   reasoning he's asked to ask him what is 
the reason for the statute and that is a   interpretation that's an opinion 
and it's not opinion he's I sustain   it's a substainable objection Mr 
Bates can we yes sir move on thank you what will feed this back off that what is you said earlier that converting 
this pit or this hole in the ground to a pond   or a lake will require some changes would you 
tell the board exactly what those changes are   and why they will be necessary yes I'm Dre can 
I get the exhibits of um up of the ACT engineer   plan one with the Contours on it I can pull that 
up and just so the board knows that was part of   the submitted package from the applicant it's 
in it's in the meeting package I need we do we   need to take it into evidence no sir take it 
you already accepted it oh at the beginning   of the Mee we've already got yes sir yes sir 
I thought bottom there you go oh yeah zoom out yeah all right if you look on the the southwest 
side that finger sticking out there the The   Contours on that show it show the pond being um 
excavated down to Elevation 100 um and it's we   don't have groundwater data from the geotechnical 
but it's pretty clear that to me the groundwater   is significantly higher when in planning which 
we're doing right now usually you kind of look   at the Wetland line and that gives you an idea 
of of about where the water will be for planning   purposes and you'll follow up with the with the 
details but that kind of finger on the bottom left   for example would be oh I don't know 30 to 40 ft 
below the water line is what I'm estimating right   here now if you can show the the reclaim plan 
which is the last one now keep on coming down   now if you see that same finger down there on the 
bottom left it's all high and dry land now how do   you how do you excavate down 30 plus feet below 
the groundwater with a borrow pit and then when   you rebuild it you build a lake that's smaller 
than the footprint of what you excavated it out   and that's why I'm saying there's only a couple 
of choices the reame plan is not what they plan   to do the engineer plan is not what they plan to 
do or are they going to bring Phill in somewhere   else to make that and that's That's the basis of 
me saying why the two drawings are not compatible   who drew that engineering plan that we're looking 
at on the table or on the screen I do not know why   don't you know um there's it's not labeled it's 
not anywhere on the plan is indicated who drew   it um you know usually there's some spots for the 
technician to say they drew it it's just all blank   is that common that it would be all blank no it's 
not common no generally who draws it you want to   you want to have some reference particularly 
if it's an engineering architectural firm they   want to know where that drawing came from so I I 
just don't know what uh when you said they would   have to bring in dirt what exactly would 
they have to bring in dirt to do well the   areas that this Reclamation plan chose as has 
dry land uh particularly along that finger um   the engineer plan would have that 35 ft below 
the groundwater so in order to get rid of the   water and make that dry land you'd have to fill it 
back up so the people that were hauling the dirt   out would have to be hauling it back in is that 
correct yes if if not from offsite somewhere on   site could they go deeper than 40 50 ft I don't 
know I just don't have that detail but it doesn't   make sense to me that you would spend the effort 
to excavate all those areas and then fill them   back I heard some testimony from people having 
to do with noise U is vegetation uh effective   as a noise buffer I mean it can slow it down 
I do not believe it's it's not my experience   being on a lot of construction jobs at 50 ft of 
tree is going to uh eliminate it with respect to   the dust is there some notion in your mind that 
vegetation would prohibit dust contamination on   the joining properties again it you could slow 
some of it down I don't my personal experience   is that it won't all of it unless they're very 
very tight with their dust control what is   their proposal for dust control I didn't see any 
specifics in the application much of anything   other than what I'm here today was Sprinklers 
and and wetting it down and other measures that's all the questions I have Mr talber yes sir 
very briefly uh Mr Merill the fact that something   is permitted does not mean they have to dig it 
right I would agree okay and in fact wouldn't   you agree as a civil engineer with 20 years 
experience you would ask for something probably to   get permanent for more than you have actually want 
because you don't have to go back and REO through   the process right I don't I can't think of a time 
I've done that um but I I'm I'm not saying it's an   invalid strategy all right so when you reference 
the finger if my that was sticking out on the   Southwest if my client didn't dig that area out 
it doesn't need to be refilled in right certainly   okay and Sir what are the when you talk about the 
edges it's not going to go straight down all the   way to the ground you going to have to go out at 
an angle correct that's correct okay and the angle   has to be two: one ratio correct at least the 
original application which was in 2021 showed two   to one size but the regulations according to the 
rules it's two to one at least if you're steeper   you got to get special approval right I agree okay 
so if you go two to one that means two foot over   for one foot down that's correct okay so if you're 
going two foot over for one foot down to get over   it's not going to be a big ditch it's going 
to be more of an angle right more at a pyramid shape yes I agree the the slopes have to be the 
side slopes have to be some slope to right so when   you look at the size again it's not it's going to 
be more of a pyramid or even less of a top of a   pyramid it's going to be more of a bold shape fair 
to say because you got to get vehicles down there   I don't know if a bowl is the right word for it   but um I guess if Drew could put 
up the the actual plan they're proposing Drew could you put up the previous page and if you see the dark lines I mean those 
are the side slopes okay but the all those type   of things though are handled in the uh next stage 
correct I hope so right as a fact you've been here   at here the testimony you heard haven't you been 
in the development Review Committee I have okay   that's where you made those decisions about the 
specific buffering the how far down that's when   you get more technical right I would agree okay 
so when you said you imagine it's actually where   it is you know it is don't you you know it's in 
that next committee is where they get spefic on   technicals right I would say that but those are 
pretty specific drawings the engineering drawings   so I don't know and I and I guess when I see uh 
engineering drawing of that detail it tells me   that's what they're probably trying to build now 
if that's not what they are then yes um if there's   going to be big changes to that drw but I can only 
I can only give testimony on what I see now sir   the Reclamation plan has not been adopted and 
signed by the board correct agree so that's just   a proposed uh Reclamation plan correct it's it's 
Mark preliminary now you indicated that buffers   the you said that uh trees stuff like that can 
be buffers for dust correct they can buffer dust   yeah and you also try to buffer areas by using 
uh dust suppression like water spray and stuff   of that nature right right okay and so so there's 
mechanisms so that you can control any dust that   comes off this property isn't that fair to say my 
experience of those mechanisms if implemented very   very tightly the tight control can be effective 
and in this case my client is submitting himself   to the county for regulation isn't he yes okay so 
that they can exercise that tight control as you   say correct yes okay sir when you referenced your 
exhibit number one how many I'm sorry yeah um it   was exhibit number four when you said how many 
houses how many houses did you say were within   a th000 ft I remember between 25 to 27 25 to 27 
houses did you count those I went on the property   appraisers CU I went on the property appraiser 
too and it was a th000 feet from Mr Connor's   home to the road so if that's th000 feet from his 
corner he's at the far corner of the bottom right   of the property correct You' identified on this 
in other words if you look at exhibit four you've   identified residences that were much further away 
than a th000 feet didn't you I would have to look   for example there's one that says residences 
but but that's not from Mr Conor it's from   every corner of the pit it's tht here's here's 
Connor's property at the bottom bottom right   the four corners of the pit right it's 1,000 ft 
from there to the to the street I about so right   I personally did that on the property but you 
listed uh residences on the other side of highway 995a so you included residences that were 
not within 1,000 ft that were Beyond 1,000 ft but that's from his corner is you you 
got to do a thousand foot off of every   right that every part of this property we will 
but the bottom right on the bottom right where   the Conor property is you included properties 
looks like one at least one two three three   poppies on the from the bottom right that 
are more than a thousand fet four it might be four you may be correct you may be correct right 
and uh you also identified looks like right above   uh Sean Drive you've identified uh people 
there too right residences somebody living   at those right does somebody live there I don't 
know I pulled that from the property appraisers   but so you don't know when you identify 
residences you don't know if these are   abandoned homes like the people I testify ear 
I just go I just go with the what the property   appraisers so what the use is it's a single 
family or vacant and right if you look at the   top right corner of your uh property or the top 
right corner of your uh the D the property where   that's going to be you included residences on 
this one that are Beyond a th000 ft too didn't   you yeah the drawing wasn't meant to show 
resident just a th000 ft the the drawing is   meant to show everything um the whole area it 
wasn't right but you included residences that   were well outside of a th000 feet did you 
not I wouldn't say well outside but those   up there I would have to I I would have to go 
back and look and and run a scale on them I'm   not sure but I was thinking most of these are 
in a thousand and a few of them are out did   you actually measure these sir on the air yeah I 
did on Google so your testimony under oath that   those houses that are up at um Cedar Town Road 
you identified two those two are within a th000 ft yes yes because if you look at the at the   500t radius you can double that from 
the corner of the the pit the other corner now sir the issue of the wells and you 
said you thought the wells addressed you would   agree this is not there he's not put in delorious 
items burying items right I've not seen any any   mention of that and he's not going to fill it 
with land waste construction waste or anything   of that nature correct there certainly no 
documents and wouldn't you agree that um   the wetlands protection statute references those 
three items if if you apply in the wetlands area   if it is delorious or other ways like that not 
sure what what rule you're looking at not sure   um you're aware though that the county you heard 
that the county has already interpreted this to be   a public portable well regulation correct yes okay 
and when we're talking about the foot from a well   that's in the well head protected statute portion 
correct yes in section a section A says it's when   you for filling when you're for delorious items 
you're putting back in that was how what applies   with the well prot yeah I'm not I'm I'm I'm 
not going to testify as a expert on the county   code um now is it 1,000 ft from the property 
line or is it th000 feet from the a permitted area I I don't think it's either 
I think it's a th000 feet from   the borrow pit because I it would 
be permitting beyond that okay and um do you and as you here today can you 
tell us where you did the th000 foot from   from was it from the property line or from 
the burrow pit it would have been from the   borrow pit the the anyone I checked would 
have been from where the Contour start not nothing further Mr B you have anything else I was going 
to have uh Mr Patterson testify briefly Mr I'm   sorry Mr Conor I apologize I've got Patterson on 
the M Mr Connors who is my client representative please raise your right hand do you solom me 
swearing affirm that the testimony you're about   to give will be the truth the whole truth and 
nothing but the truth help you God I do state your   name and address please James Connor 925 Shawn 
Road Malino Florida could we turn to exhibit four three all right we have accepted three in board do 
you you Mr Conor do you recognize that parcel yes   sir what is it it's a illustration of the front of 
my house my fence and my wellhouse which is right   next to the fence is that an accurate description 
yes sir is it accurate as of today yes sir it was   accurate as of the time the picture was taken yes 
sir offer exhibit three depicting exactly what   Mr Connor's home and how close his well is 
to the fence which is the border between   his property and the neighboring property 
where the pit is going to go right right   behind that bush is my uh well head on the 
on the right side yes sir right there it's   approximately 4 feet from the property 
line do I hear a motion motion second   we have a motion in a second all in favor of 
accepting this exhibit please raise your right hand exhibit three exhibit three what did I say   four I'm sorry all right all right 
and I'd also like to turn to exhibit two Mr Conor do you recognize that 
document yes sir did you prepare it   um I added to it all right well tell me 
have what you took and what you added   uh basically I I took the footprint of 
the proposed dirt pit and I put in the   location of my house and my well head and the 
location of uh multiple neighbors around the   perimeter of the proposed site on 
this particular depiction where is your well bottom right hand corner highlighted 
in yellow okay and to the uh towards the top of   the page right under the north south east and west 
indicator it says kite dor what is that uh that's   illustration of the location of uh Mrs kite's 
house and Mrs dortch's house did you compile the   information this chart in handwriting yes sir the 
handwriting is your yes sir did you independently   do the re search necessary to complete that 
yes sir I'm moving admission of exhibit two we have a you the only objection I have 
you know relative to it is from a Wellhead   perspective it's our position that the Wellhead 
is irrelevant and noting uh uh evidence of a   Wellhead is uh confusing and improper because 
we already have evidence EV that the Wellhead   references portable public water Mr Godwin 
I suggest the statute says otherwise it will   argue otherwise it will submit otherwise 
and for purposes of the record I want to   establish where my clients well WL is 
like I've said before their conclusion   that the county has previously approved 
their definition is not correct in fact   Mr Jones letter does not cite the provision which 
we are referring to and so we could not have ruled   that way and I am establishing the location 
of my client's well for purposes of whatever   subsequent action we made to take depending on 
the outcome of this hearing any discussion on this do I hear a motion on accepting it in 
for the for the value that it will give us   second second okay all in favor raise your right 
hand okay we accept it in and it'll be given the   weight that we believe it deserves thank you 
Mr Conners when did you buy this property it   was uh May of 2020 in May of 2020 when you 
bought the property was the well there yes   sir was the well functioning then yes sir 
if you would please flip back to exhibit three the fence that's shown there on the right 
side of that photograph is that your fence yes   sir where is it in relationship to the boundary 
between your property and the subject property it   is one foot off the property line one foot off 
in the sense of closer to yours yes sir so you   defense and one foot inside 
that property line yes sir   okay and on the exhibit four that's in evidence already is your well head your well 
which you've just described on the   photograph previously within 
500 ft of where this pit yes sir and actually earlier testimon he had 
it wrong the applicant is offering a 50ft   buffer uh on the property line my Wellhead 
is 4 foot off the property line that puts   my Wellhead 54 feet off the pit previously I 
think they said 70 plus but it's not it's 54   ft 54t yes sir from where this pit is going 
to be relative to your well yes sir are you   familiar where with M dortch's Property yes 
sir and if you look at exhibit four you will   see that U upper leftand corner indication 
of M D's well is you see that yes sir is   that an accurate depiction yes sir you know 
how far that well is from the proposed 143 ft are you aware of other wells in this 
particular area that are perhaps within 500   I I believe but I I've seen a well right to the 
east but uh I tried to talk to the residents but   I've never been able to talk to them but there 
is a well there how about within a thousand feet   I would I would think there are many how do 
you know that I don't know that but there's   earlier earlier testimony from other residents 
Ted to that objection speculation is well your   uh objection is noted and move to and uh accept 
it Mr Mr talot uh has moved to strike which is   his impression of what the board's prerogative 
might be I Don't Want To Tread on his motion uh what is your OB objection to striking it his 
objection is to it and he wants it stricken he   doesn't want you all to be able to consider 
what Mr Connor just said and Mr Connor said   Mr Connor what did you say if I objected second if 
I objected to it sustained he refused to stop and   kept stop to kept talking to add more information 
they sustained the objection because he' lack of   predicate and he was speculating so therefore it 
should if well I'd like to understand I couldn't   hear what he said it would be helpful to the 
board to understand what he said uh I'm I am   I am entertaining your uh objection and if 
you will allow me to to do that please yes please could I'm sorry I I if you wanted 
me to let you know what he was saying yes   uh but could you speak up just AE oh yes 
so the question was are you aware of other   wells in this area and he seen them 
and he the right has he talked to the residents all right thank you ma'am um 
board you've heard this motion to strike   uh would you what is the pleasure of the 
board what is the comments of the board   we've had a lot of this give and take uh 
back and forth uh over this hearing this   is looks like a garden variety of the 
same thing that's my thought on it but   I'd like to hear the board before I I think 
I think your your thought is probably correct   and I'll make a motion to to strike to strike 
do I hear a second do I hear a second second   we have a motion and a second to strike which 
is unusual for us we do not normally uh have   that sort of thing arise all those in favor of 
striking the last comment as extraneous and you   not relevant to the topic then please raise your 
hand let the records show that that statement was stricken U Mr Connor is your when you bought 
the property and up until the time of the   last hearing before this group in 2022 did 
you use that well for drinking water yes sir are you using it for drinking water now no 
sir why not uh at the conclusion of the last boa   meeting in April 2022 Mr Patterson put a hog pin 
next to my house uh right on the property line 20   ft from my house 4T from my well head so I to shut 
my well down over fear of eoli contamination when   you say shut it down did you close it or just not 
use it I just shut off the lever and I I I'm not   using it anymore out of caution that's all the 
questions I have yes sir Miss Connor when you   bought the house in 2022 was that right 2020 2020 
public water was connected to the house wasn't it   yes and you still have public water you had public 
water connected to your house from the time you   bought it till today correct yes many residents 
due for Hurricane preparations and uh so you've   been using prior to May of 22 you used public 
water in your house isn't that correct actually   I was using my private water I have an account 
with Molina water uh you're referring to a $20   charge per month that's a maintenance hookup 
fee you pay that whether you use water or not   no I'm talking about you using water prior to 
May of 2022 you use the public portable water   system from up there where you live correct 
the water I used uh basically was my private well if I use Molino water I have to pay for water 
so there's a base charge of $20 a month and if you   use more water then you pay to buy their water 
so in Ence if there's a hurricane and my power   goes out my pump goes out I can't use my water but 
Molino water keeps going so that's that's the idea   it's a it's a backup situ situation backup Supply 
well it was until the Hogs were introduced anyway   all right now sir when we talk about Wells the 
well in your property is your personal well is   that right yes it's not a public well is it no 
you would agree that there your property your   well is not a public well correct that's my 
understanding you would agree that the other   Wells that you said you heard about are not public 
Wells run by municipality that's my understanding I think that's it nothing further Mr Godin 
Mr Merill asked me if he could clarify one   question he thinks he got wrong and he doesn't 
want to leave here with all right that' be fine   Mr am I excused yes please thank you gentlemen 
appreciate your help listen today yes thank you   Mr chairman when I was up here earlier I believe 
I stated about 25 homes within that thousand feet   yeah I was sitting here counting them when 
I was doing I didn't have a scale that was   incorrect it's about 12 within that thousand 
I scaled them off over there and I say about   because there's some trailers there that I'm 
not sure if people are living in or not so   okay you I just wanted to clarify that it 
wasn't intentional I just miscounted when   I was here thinking I was outside of that 
thank you we appreciate that Mr Merl um Mr   Godwin other than an argument that I'd like to 
present I'm concluded all right sir uh before   we get into that I'm sure Mr talat Scott will 
have an argument too uh could Mr day could you   come up and ask I want I've got a question 
come up and I'd like maybe if you could help us uh or help me based on your prior 
testimony if I understand what you   said excluding the character of these Wells 
that we've been discussing public or private   that a well within 500 feet of this projected 
project could uh be become uh contaminated is   is was that my understanding what you said to me 
so um the answer is first yes so with with Wells   a lot of it comes down to how much water is being 
pumped out of them yes so for example on a typical   single family house that that's rural doesn't have 
any public water supply uh when you sink your well   um you have a setback of 75 ft for your septic 
tank so you can have a septic tank within 75 ft of   your poble well um if it's nonpotable you need to 
have 50 ft so on on an individual basis and it's   I'm going to state right off the bat I don't know 
what they're utilizing the wells for and so how   much is being pumped out of it um but on a potable 
well that's public uh because it's serving at   large number of people um the distance of 500 ft 
is used uh to provide protection if we don't have   any other uh data for the the 7ye the 20-year time 
of travel but even in a private will contamination   could still occur is that right it's if if it's 
possible it it's it's possible it depends on the   amount of water they're pumping out in with the 
the source of pollution is and you've heard the   testimony that and I've heard a couple of figures 
that I've I've heard 60 feet I've heard 40 4 feet   or for the depth of this proposed project are 
you comfortable that at 60 feet or 40 feet going   down that deep will not disturb the aqua it it it 
certainly will expose it well that's that that was   my point it it could be exposed uh and if there 
are contaminants in the groundwater above it or   the water above it then the aqua it aquaa itself 
becomes contaminated is that right it it certainly   could and this Aqua if I understand your testimony 
and testimony from other people uh runs this whole   area is honeycombed with springs and various I 
I won't say a I guess Aquas or water underground   waterways is is that correct this whole area that 
we're discussing generally Beyond The barel Pit in   this even even right here I mean we've there 
there is a groundwater level throughout uh   Escambia County we all of our drinking water comes 
from the sand and gravel aquifer um okay and um um therefore it is possible that a deep uh 
pit would could create issues with our with   the water it's it's it's possible I mean there is 
a lot of ways that you could get contamination it   could be through a pit that directly does it you 
could have um you know diesel spills we've had   you know rail spills that potentially threaten 
drinking water so it's because our we have   typically few confining layers and there are 
some uh contamination that hits the soil um   certainly can make it down and make it into 
areas that Wells are bringing it back up and   generally if you know and you may not uh in 
the area that we're talking about the pit and   the s surrounding area near it do you know if 
the water levels are fairly High under uh that   uh it doesn't take very much to dig down in hit 
water um I haven't walked the site but you know   there are wetlands on site and you wherever 
there's Wetlands you know that groundwater is   at least within a foot of the surface uh you know 
four to six months out of the year so excuse me   the groundwater table potentially is high in these 
areas also right if I understand what they say   with springs and that sort of thing okay thank you 
Mr okay can if I can ask a couple questions off   that all right sir Go sir the just so we clear who 
normally handles the regulation of the groundwater   in whether you can go down and uh dig in that 
area would that is that the board of adjustments   or is that another government agency so um for the 
pit itself um there'll be two Regulatory Agencies   being the county uh through the DRC process 
he would also have to get a permit from the   Florida Department of Environmental Protection 
um and along the same ways with the wetlands   themselves uh that would be regulated by D and 
the core in terms of potential impacts to the we   so the impact to the wetlands that's not something 
for the board of adjustments to consider because   you got experts that handle that separately is 
that right yeah it's there's a permit process   in which uh the project to be evaluated and um 
you know permit conditions put on whatever is   authorized and if when we talk about digging 
okay by regulations you can go no steeper than   two foot over and one foot down right correct 
so by the time you get to 20 feet down you're   at least is it 40 foot over 20 time two is 40 am 
I right or am I getting something wrong two feet   over one foot down yes 4 yes so it's not that hey 
Right Where You permit you're going down to hit   the aquifer you have to go down gradually no no 
steeper than two to one isn't that correct right   it well there'll be an angle yes okay so by the 
time you get down further you may be more 500 ft away it's well it I don't want to speculate 
there's there's you know projected plans um   I don't know that I mean even with projected 
plans that we're looking at um those aren't   I mean they could be the plans that DRC 
seals sees um but those certainly aren't   engineered sealed plans okay thank 
you nothing further thank you sir   right thank you all right we've reached the 
the point in time uh where we would sum up uh Mr Mr T if you'd like to sum up and then of 
course Mr Dave uh I'm sorry Mr Bates would be the   would be allowed to uh offer whatever his thoughts 
were yes sir there's been a lot of testimony and   evidence today and I think it's very important 
that we stay focused even though some people can   be emotional or so forth we're focusing on what 
the board of adjustments looks at first of all   the law is very clear in the evidence is this is 
agricultural property and under the building uh   regulations are the uh the the county uh code that 
agricultural it is permitted in an agricultural   property subject to the conditional use in other 
words if you're going to do this they want the   ability to regulate it and know what's going 
on and make sure it's that we take actions to   protect it the issues of the wetlands the issues 
of whether the aquafer the is those issues belong   to a different agency those belong to the D and 
and so forth okay issues concerning how many trees   or what is the exact slope or what type of uh 
dust suppression those are issues which are going   to be determined when and if this board issues H 
gives a conditional or permit that's we have again   specialist with the Department here that handle 
those items so even though there's been testimony   to that I would like for the you know to make sure 
we stay focus just on the issues here just on what   we're focusing on now along that line there's 
been a lot of testimony concerning somebody has   a a private well okay when you're dealing with 
a a well under that five excuse me that 500 foot   provision applies okay very specifically it's 
outlined in the Wellhead protection statute and   the Wellhead protection statute as I indicated 
okay deals with when you are uh Excavating uh   certain items and that you are are uh basically 
putting back in other construction debris or   other delorious uh supplies that does not apply 
here because he's put in water he's going to   fill it a make a lake so you don't get to that 
regulation because there's not that threat of   uh the toxicity involved instead what we look at 
we look at the the 10 factors that were outlined   in the regulations and can it be uh can it be uh 
appropriate with the surrounding area okay we do   have a surrounding area that one to the north has 
storing dirt on it we do have it was previously a   disposal area okay it's agricultureal we have 
a we have a pro trucks going up and down the   prop uh the interstate uh the road there that 
are dump trucks okay so it's not a residential   Community all right with all due respect I know 
a lot of people here they say that's their house   but when you're moving to an agricultural area 
on Highway 995a you can't just say no not in   my backyard anymore okay we're on a thorough 
Highway if you want those protections then   you need to move to a sub okay when you move 
to an agricultural area along an interstate   you accept some of the things that happen here 
okay do you accept the fact there's going to   be truck transportation okay there could be other 
commercial you could have a Tom Thumb put up next   to you all right or the county buildings a mile 
up the road these are natural issues when you're   in agricultural or permitted area we had the one 
gentleman says look I don't care I'm a Libertarian   he can do what he wants on his property that's 
what my client purchased that property for when   he purchased it in 2020 he came to the county said 
can I do this he wanted to build uh uh he wanted   to build the property dig the ditch and put his 
forever home there you can always ask what if or   what if he Chang his mind that's for the the the 
committee to determine he's telling you what he   wants and that's what we have to look at as far as 
public services which is the second prong he's not   going to uh usurp any type of to too many public 
services uh he has a standard power that he's   can use for his home and water from this County 
Water that's going to be used as home up there as   well then Ingress and egress it's been already uh 
provided information all these factors when you go   do support my client being permitted to use this 
property the board the people that are tasked with   this during this department have agreed okay 
they support his position Mr day just stood up   here he said he supported this application okay if 
there was issues concerning the application they   would tell you okay my client is a respectable 
businessman okay he wants to operate this in a   respectable manner he's going to submit himself 
to the control of the county and he wants to make   this his forever home okay he should be given that 
opportunity and he should get his conditional use permit Board of adjustment is charged by the 
resolution of the County Board of Commissioners   ERS to do among other things uh have this hearing 
and the board of adjustment I would say is a   gatekeeper I will read from the resolution 
of the County Commissioners that created   this responsibility for the board of adjustment 
the burden of proof in quazi judicial hearings   concerning zoning related matters shall be in 
accordance with all applicable local state and   federal law however notwithstanding the burden of 
proof shall lie as follows the initial burden is   on the landowner to demonstrate that his petition 
or application for use of privately owned lands   that is rezoning conditional use conditional 
use per uh permit variance Etc complies with   the re reasonable procedural requirements of the 
ordinance and that the proposal is is consistent   with the comprehensive plan the comprehensive 
plan prohibits what they are applying to this   board to have approved the comprehensive plan 
and I had these all in exhibits at one point in   time but it became a little tedious to do that the 
comprehensive plan uh provides and this is uh the   2030 variety that this conduct would be absolutely 
prohibited then and it is not consistent with it   now nevertheless and I am amazed at this 
particular point the applicant would have   you all punt or I would rather say abdicate 
to boards commissions or agencies later to   protect the people standing behind me in 
fact this particular project is before you   all because it is not just within a th000 fet 
of a residence although that would suffice for   purposes of requiring that they come here it is 
within a th000 ft of several residences it is   further in front of you all pursuant to a rule 
that absolutely prohibits a private well pardon   me prohibits putting this pit with under within 
500 ft of a private well I could take you through   this statute the development code and show you 
precisely that result every time I have started   to do that it sounds too legal but the opinion 
Mr Horus Jones put out regarding the staff or   the Department's construction of that rule which 
is a portion of the application that is before   you today cites to a different provision than the 
one that says they are prohibited from doing this   within 500 feet of a well now I don't know what 
the Land Development code once said but as of 2020   two when I cross-examined the staff and as of 
today they acknowledge that the word Well w l   l lowercase w is simply not defined throughout 
the code there are adjectives appended to the   word well public well drainage well any 
number of different kinds of Wells but in   the portion of the Land Development code that 
talks about Wells north of barau Park Road   it says unequivocally not within 500 ft of a well 
now what else so we have several residences within   a th000 ft we have the well problem then we have 
the OB obligation to determine whether or not this   plan is compatible with the residential permitted 
residential uses and so the the same size pit on   the same size property that was not approved in 
2021 and not approved in 2022 is here today in   front of you once again because they say well 
we've added buffers well all they've done is   drawn a narrower line on the map they haven't 
told us what those buffers are going to be how   efficacious they will be how in the world are 
we going to determine whether or not this is   consistent with lawful residential use for these 
people that are right on this property vicinity   or within the thousand foot th000 foot radius 
and for that matter the larger area of people in   this particular area so I would sum up by saying 
the evidence today is no different than it was   a two years ago and three years ago in a court 
of law the argument would be race judicata thing   decided you wouldn't be able to come back one of 
the witnesses asked you all how often are we going   to have to come back here is every change in the 
composition of this board give the applicant an   opportunity to come back before you all and seek 
a different decision well he's delayed 180 days   and then he can go back back again and we can 
spend all this money and all these people can   come in once again and what are we to say about 
the race judicata effect of what this board does   how are we to rely on the decisions of the board 
of adjustment I suggest that the evidence today is   no better to sustain this application than it 
was two years ago or three years ago and Isis   submit that this board ought to feel compelled to 
deny this application and respectfully request on   behalf of my client and all the other people who 
here today and who testified about they don't   want this in their backyard I respectfully request 
that you deny this application thank you thank you sir I believe we've reached the point board 
where testimony now is closed and it is time   that we deliver liate uh as to this matter uh 
I'd like to hear what board comments there may   be concerning this matter I uh I find the 
compatibility issue just flagrant that it   is not compatible just for the fact 
that we had this many citizens show   to protest and that's where I Mr chair 
Mr Smith I can't really hear you very well oh I'm sorry yes you're there we go I I find that uh   uh that this project is not compatible with 
the citizens and neighborhood of uh that area and Marty you have a comment yes I 
believe that there are only two issues   um that have been talked about in depth 
here um that we should be considering   um certainly traffic and um Wetlands 
issues are not under our preview um   but I think that um the situation with um 
the wells and with compatibility and the   distances um surrounding the proposal um the 
numerous homes that are there um indicate that this proposal is uh not compatible with um the 
surrounding area and um certainly doesn't meet   um the requirements of distances for 
residence and Wells Ross did you have comments uh I find it troubling uh to I would 
agree with my colleagues that compatibility is   an issue I would also believe that the staff eared 
in uh the whether or not this would constitute a   nuisance e accepting the testimony of the expert 
uh that there are perhaps 12 homes that lie within   this area uh is uh that's just seems to uh be an 
indicator of the of the province or the problem   that we face with this application and and I 
spoke with Mr day specifically about the wells   excluding their character whether it's public or 
private and he As I understood his testimony was   uh very clear to me that uh a private or public 
that with a project like this that there is the   potential that those wells will be become to uh 
contaminated and my other concern was while uh I   accept that this will uh and I have no reason to 
doubt the veracity of the applicants statements   that this is uh will be a home in in the coming 
future at some time uh I know reasonably that he   is not an honorable man and and has and has 
given us testimony that is uh his belief uh unfortunately we have to be cautious 
about these matters on the board   uh escamia county has a long history of catfish 
ponds uh and uh that were going to be built uh   from these Barrow pits and it's some years ago you 
may remember in Cantona there was uh some of you   who are here uh if my memory serves me right there 
was such a uh a pledge and uh it to my knowledge   never really was fulfilled and it created much 
much uh uh unhappiness in the neighborhoods   so while we uh we are I always try to believe 
everyone at when they uh present their testimony   uh we just as a board have to be cautious in 
these matters and uh this area is growing and   I worry myself about the agricultural character 
of of the northern part of our county is being   lost uh because people as one witness said there's 
no place down here to build it seems everyone is   moving North and that's true so this is just not 
a given the location and the geography and the uh   uh it just doesn't seem to be a suitable 
project uh now maybe 20 years ago that   would have been an entirely different situation 
but not now and so I personally can't support it Ross did you have anything else did you 
have anything before we call for the vote   and board your staff's recommended approval so 
if there is a motion to deny the conditional   use then please address the criteria 
and the code yeah can we go back to criteria uh do we have a motion if if we can get a motion then we would go to 
the criteria and and identify uh I have a I   have a motion to uh deny this application and to 
uh overturn the the findings uh as uh relates to   this matter uh from the staff do I have a second 
second can you identify the criteria yeah we are   going if if it's overturned we we will we'll 
we'll identify exactly how it's I I think maybe   to clarify Mr chairman um if you could make it 
part of the motion which specific criteria you're   um disagreeing with okay uh are we 
okay we're there uh Mr who made the   motion was It Mary Mary uh yeah a is uh 
compatibility I know we discussed that one criteria a and D um I don't remember which criter it was not a criteria yes sorry and if we might go back up um I would like uh for maybe the board 
to consider uh nuisances and Hazards all   that that one I would agree to that 
modification of my motion criteria   be included so you've identified 
A and D is that correct A and D so and uh and if you could go down one more here let see I is the item that has 
the other code requirements uh I I wonder about go back 
up please just a little bit uh and then down oh let's see the buffering 
I'm not convinced that uh   we've had testimony uh about whether or not there 
would be sufficient buffering for this project and   I'm not suffer uh I'm not certain in my mind that 
there is adequate buffering to protect against uh   well the sight and the noise and that sort of 
thing I agree I don't I don't believe there   could be any amount of buffering that would 
stop the dust I live two two or three miles   from a a borrow pit and um as good as they take 
care of it it raises dust um that's why that's   one of the reasons why I don't believe this is 
compatible with the area because it's residential around all right board members we have   identified the areas of disagreement with the 
staff and is there any more comments board   wishes to make if we could I'm sorry Mr chairman 
um I'm looking at my notes here I've got a d f   and I if that is correct I'd appreciate 
if you could put that into your thank you um thank you Andrew we're for keeping us on track   um are there any more comments no hearing 
none there is a motion now to disapprove   uh this application and uh also the uh 
identified staff findings of fact uh I'll ask now that everyone that is in favor 
of this motion to please raise your right hand uh let the record reflect that this uh 
application was denied by a vote of three to   one uh and U the matter is closed sir before 
I want to put on the record uh member of the   board just stated that he doesn't think there 
could be any buffering and he based that on his   living two to three miles from another pit and 
that there's no way you could do uh to have that   buffering on that basis he should have recused 
himself and not participated in this because   he's previously biased uh if that's a motion I 
I I deny it we we uh I deny that that's that's   not uh Germain where we are is there any other 
business relating to this matter okay I think   everyone I especially thank that all the many 
people that came I'm sorry they went home early   uh but this is a long and laborous project and 
so uh but we do appreciate your participation   I appreciate council's arguments and I know that 
sometimes we get spirited so everyone I think uh   found it very Illuminating and thank you Mr 
chairman next the next meeting is September   18th all right here let's let the yes sir uh 
next is September 18 and uh we have many cases   I just have one um the meeting last month 
where we didn't have an agent show up yeah   oh they're showing up this time all right 
well looks like the meeting is adjourned s I'm sorry I I can't yeah yeah I just