Yeah. Yeah. So Mr. If you don't know
division managers. Is this all one thread? I know they're kind
okay. Absolutely. Thank you. Technically, that's not half. Let's
see. Sorry. We have some new apparatus up here. So, we will come right to it.
Call this meeting to order. The Scammy County Compy Board, our regular meeting October 1st, 2025. Um, we're going to stand for the pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
Thank you everyone. We have a fairly busy agenda today. We will try to move uh through as quickly as possible, but we also want to be very judicious with what we're doing. Madam Secretary, our agenda number two is our board rules. Yes, sir. Mr. Chairman, please silence all cell phones. If you wish to speak, please let the board secretary know in advance. Otherwise, raise your hand for the board chair to recognize your request. When the chairman calls you to speak,
come to the podium, adjust the microphone, and state your name and address for the record. You are requested to keep your remarks brief and factual. Both parties of an issue will be granted uniform maximum time to speak, which usually runs between 3 to 5 minutes. This hearing is considered quasi judicial. Conduct is formal and profane or derogatory comments will not be tolerated. Thank you. And do we have a determination of quorum this morning? Yes, sir, Mr. Chairman, with eight members present. We do. Thank you. And do we have proof
of publication of our meeting today? Yes, sir, Mr. Chairman. It was published September 25th, 2025 in the Pensacola News Journal. Thank you. And I need a motion for approval of minutes from the August 6th meeting, 2025. Motion to approve. Do I have a second? Second. I have a motion and a second. All in favor, raise your right hand. All oppose, same sign. Seeing none hearing, none, motion is approved. And we move into our public forum session. If there's anyone here
that would like to speak in the public form, you need to make sure you sign up. And also, we uh request for a three minute limit of time frame in your public speaking. Do we have anyone today who has signed up? I do have one speaker request form. Uh, Chloe Ston.
Good morning. It's been a long time. Um, Chloe Stton, 101 South F Street, Pensacola, Florida, 32502. I have some copies for the board. Do we need a motion to get these to us or this? This is public form. It's never mind. Yeah, this is not evidence in there. It is in regards to the number eight on uh your application. So, I can wait until then or I can I can do it now. Um,
we probably would like to have it when we're actually dealing with It's kind of what I was thinking, too. I hate to make everyone wait. I think that's right. Okay. I will uh before you leave, good to see you. Nice to see you. Out of the hospital, too. Last time your wife was here, you were in the hospital. It's been a long time ago, I guess. Um, Miss Christie, our legal Yes, sir. Would it be okay if we save this for the actual time we're in discussion on this particular uh situation or Yes, sir. That is Yes, sir. It's completely up to the
board and uh at your discretion if that's what you'd prefer. We don't mind you speaking now, but I can wait. I don't mind. The relevance of it would connect to that. Does that make sense? Yes, sir. And so then now would we need to have a motion to accept? We'll do that at the time of Okay. at the time of the uh we get to that. We're providing a copy of this to Mr. Freeman. Okay. Good. Okay. All right. Thank you. Good. All right. Thank you guys. Anybody else on our public forum? M. Jennifer. No, sir. That was the only speaker request form, but
you may want to pull the audience. We've got quite a few people here today. Is there anyone else here today that would like to speak during public form? If you do, you need to come over and sign up. Don't see anybody. We'll move on. Okay. Our board secretary status report. Got a few things for the board. Oh, really? Wow. Huh. Uh, happy October 1st. I'm a fall girl, so this is great. Um, uh, welcome back to some members that were reappointed to the board. Um,
so it's it's good to see y'all maintaining your position on the board. At this time, I'm going to request that two items be pulled from the agenda or continued to our next meeting. Um, the first one would be Mr. Meyers. Um, we have some new information that we received uh this morning and so we would like to request that that be continued to our next meeting. Okay. I will entertain a motion for someone to make a continuence for uh number nine item two to
be moved to next meeting. I make a motion. Have a motion. I have a second. Second. I have a motion. Second. All in favor raise your right hand. All oppose. Same sign. Seeing none. Hear none. Motion is approved. And then our uh my next request is to also continue the sunshine law presentation. We have some board members and also some staff that um have meetings this afternoon and um Miss Christie has said that she will do this at our November meeting. That means she
has to come back. I plan to Do have a motion to move item number 10 one to November's meeting. I make a motion. Second. Motion and a second. All in favor raise your right hand. All oppose. Same sign. Seeing none. Hearing none. Motion is approved to move to vote members meeting. Anything else? That's it. Good. Thank you so much. And so we will move into number eight,
our contractor applications. Good morning, board. Our first applicant to appear before you today is Mr. Kenneth Gates. Mr. Mr. Gates, if you would please come to the podium and state your name and address for the record, sir. Uh, Kenneth James Gates, uh, PO Box, well, 607 Queen Anne Circle, Somerdale, Alabama, 36583. Mr. Gates appears before you today requesting to take the general contractor's examination. He has held a general contractor's license in Alabama since January the 16th, 1998, totaling 27 years,
8 months, and 14 days of experience. He has included a list of project names and locations for your reference as part of his experience and he has labeled this as exhibit A and part of his application. Mr. Gates did answer yes to financial question number four regarding leans, lawsuits, and judgments. He has provided written explanation as well as court records for your consideration. You will also find copies of his general contractor's license provided in the application uh dating back to 2008 and those would be through Alabama. And based upon the court
record and history provided for Lean's lawsuit and judgment, SAS recommendation is to defer to the board for decision. Good morning, Mr. Gates. Would you like to address the board this morning? No, I'm D's here to answer any questions and and just say I'm thankful to be here. So, if the board will, if you've had a chance to look at this already, you can see there's been a good number of legal cases here.
Um, dating from 2009 to 2020. This is down I think page 27 of the first deal. That's good ways down. Um before Yeah. Um,
would you like to give us some insight into the number of these? I mean, this it's a flag. I tell you this, it's a flag for us as a board. We our purpose is for the protection of the citizens of Escambia County, Florida. and um coming in requesting general contractor license with this type of history. Is that the right way to say it? Uh causes us to pause and say, "Wait a minute."
Most of those cases occurred on uh condo restoration behind the hurricanes, you know, from Ivan all the way Dayton up the Sally Pad Sally and those are sometimes out of I feel out of my control because of directions you've done. you you're directed by engineers to do certain things to buildings and then you do them and the board comes back and sues you over them, you know, cuz they didn't like something or for whatever reason. Uh I I I say it is a number,
but you know, I stood firm, paid the bills, and and still financially sound. Uh we settled them. Some of them I had to sue for collection. you know, people owed me and uh it's just we don't do or Gates Builders does not do any more uh repairs to condos. It's just too liable and litigatable, I guess, is the correct word to say. Uh we're more into commercial. We do a lot of strip centers,
airplane hangers for the city of G Shores. We've done a lot of government projects for the city of G Shores and Orange Beach. you know, we've done done well with those projects. That was just a phase of construction that we were in that it's just not it wasn't good for us, you know, and that's where those lie, you know, those those cases lie. You look at Edgewater West, Eco Bryce, those those people. Then you look at some condos that just didn't pay us. We had to sue.
I I read through every one of them myself and I don't know I'm assuming other board members have done as well. Um the things that you were I hate to use the word guilty of but accused of and then they found you liable for was uh things like poor construction mismanagement. There there's several things here that was listed in these um actual cases that's on here. Um in those cases,
sir, I had no I could not speak or say nothing. I was told to sit down and sit at the corner that they were handled by the the bonding company. We went in wanting to settle instead of protect me. But but you understand this is what you were um is the right word accused of. I guess that's the right word to say. You were these are things that they had charged you accused you of. And those those things are flags to us because in our county typically those type situations hurt
our citizens. They're the ones that lose out. And if an engineer, we got some guys that's been up here a long time for building. If an engineer tells you to do something, they take responsibility and liability for it. They would be the ones being sued and not you. Well, the the attorneys in Alabama going to sue everybody in a contract. Yeah, I got you. They throw a big net, see what sticks. when you're when you're told to span the porch at plantation 18t and you sit there and say it's not going to work but you're under contract and
the engineer was here out of Scambia County Dan Smith cornerstone engineer so I was some of it was forced major work you know you're told to do it you're under contract to do it and and those things really hurt me because when it comes to a lawsuit, you know, and you have a bond company, they tell you to go sit down and set the corner. They'll call you when they want your checkbook, you know, so you really don't have a say. You can be accused of a lot of things. I understand that.
But what got you there? We're the legalities of how it worked out is is understandable. Some of that does get out of our control, but what got you there to begin with? That's our concern. You see what I'm saying? Yes, sir. That's what our concern is. is that there there seems to be I'll just be straight there's a pattern here for the last 11 years or better until just a couple years ago few years ago now there's been a pattern and that's when we were doing a lot of the repairs or media work behind storms you open up these buildings like plantations to eat up with
termites what about the Methodist church Methodist church or sub was he went on his own and directed to bury some cable on some property was not ours and they came back and sued him. He turned around and sued me because the church would not pay him for the work. That was Harvey Mills and Crouch. You were the GC on the job, sir. You were the GC on the job. Yes, sir. It was a discrepancy of a property line and he got on other property and that person sued him and he sued me because
the church would not pay him. And how did he was a deacon on the church board. How did the church sue you then? Because they felt that they shouldn't be involved in it, you know, and they they sued me. But at the end of the day, I still had to pay Robert Mills and them, you know, and we had and I end up having to move the the lines from the property back to their property.
And we didn't direct that. He did that upon himself. That was done prior to us actually moving on site. That was the site utilities to get the power to the source of the building. They had bought a strip center beside the church and they didn't realize they had property that that he was working on as a church member that was not their property. And then there's ca there's just case after case. I mean, but I'm scrolling through here
now. It's just over and over again. And um Have all the restitutions been paid? Yes, sir. I paid them personally, including the the Edgewater West. The bond company didn't pay anything. Did anybody else have any questions up here besides us? You welcomed it. No, my only I
was just going to comment. I mean, he did pay all the restitution every single time. And from what I mean, there's a couple checks in here. I didn't see all of them. The checks that were in here um in the backup where he paid them out of pocket, not from the insurance company. I I can The insurance company didn't pay any. The only one they paid on was the one where uh at plantation my insurance company paid that because they stood with me. That's the only time
and it was pin national. But all the rest of them I paid out of my pocket paid eternities and everything and including the Edgewater suit. I stood firm had attorney. I went to court every day with them. I didn't realize the bonding company I thought that's what they were to do was to pro protect the contractor and finish the job. But we would we didn't. We finished the job. It was faulty glass and we had no control over the glass company wouldn't do anything. I mean, from an insurance perspective, when you go to these kind of hearings,
he's right. They pretty much tell you to sit down and shut up. They did. They're not going to defend himself in any way. That's exactly right. I was told I can't repeat it because what they said, but it was Betico said in that corner right there, we'll call you when we want your checkbook. And the attorney that sued him, David Daniels that sued me, he could have went to the bond the bonding company first, but he didn't want, you know, I mean, could have went to the insurance company first and made YKK pay for the glass, but he wouldn't do it cuz he want he
was asking $17 million for a condo that wasn't worth but $7 million. So, I was being scapegoed the whole time and and sit and listen to it. But, I paid my attorneys to go and and fight for me. And it's very commendable that you have paid this. I don't want to minimize what you've done. I understand. And our concern is that and I think you could appreciate this. There's sure seem to have been a pattern here and that kind of makes us go wait a minute. But it's a lot of jobs like I said that we finished for the municipalities. Guff shores Orange Beach Foley and
we do all the hangers at Guff Shores International Airport. They don't let anybody come on site. So, it's it's a lot of good to us. And I've been in business for 40 years this year. I started back when I was very young. And I would appreciate the opportunity. But we're we're seeing a need that we're getting a lot of calls from this area. We do small strips, not huge strip for, you know, the big guys, but we do small strip centers, two and three places. And some of our clients
are wanting to move in here and and do this. And I want to do it right. you know, I don't want to skirt the system. I want to have the license, you know, to do it. Uh, I've always been that. And and some part of these these lawsuits would be that, you know, I'm a I'm hard-headed. I'm a man of my word, and when I say I'm going to do something, I'm going to do it. When I'm say you're wrong, you're wrong. And but that's a lot of it. I can't say because of the confidentiality, but they just said, "Here, write us a check." And you could tell when that was coming cuz
when you first when you did your first payout and it would be 30 days behind on it, you know something was up. But you got to keep working for your contract because it's got liquidated damages in it. Mhm. And then the engineer says, "Hey, we're going to do this." I said, "Dan, wait. I don't know if we need to do this." you know, you're still you're under contract. So, and it's it's hard to swallow that. Finish the contract knowing you're going to be sued. Yeah. You have good principles, you do it anyway, though, right? Yes, sir. That's right. Any other
questions from the board? I'll entertain a motion from someone. Motion to approve. I'll second it. Okay, I have a motion to approve and I have a second. All in favor, raise your right hand. All oppose. Same sign. Mr. Gates, you've been approved for the testing for the general contractor here. Thank you, Mr. Listister. And board staff, trust me,
you won't see me in a lawsuit no more. I don't and this this lady sitting over here I think she knows what I'm talking about but I thank you for taking the time to entertain me and I'm a little bit shaken but you know it's never too old to get trembly now that's fine and we don't we're again we're here to protect our system so when we ask questions it's not a personal thing I'm on the plan of compassion town of Somerdale and I do the very same thing you do okay but I'm I've been on this side of it today now you know how they feel I want to say but I if I do I know it's it
carries financial clauses in it if I say a lot. Yeah. You know better. You know better than that part. And the ambulance chasers Yeah. They're out there. They're listening. It don't matter if you walk across the park lot. They're going to sue you sometimes. Uh what do I do from from this point? So these guys here will lead you the road. They'll tell you what to do. Do I just go on today and they'll contact me or am I done or Mr. Gates? So, um, after my licensing specialists get done with all of the applicants, they'll return back to the licensing area and they can assist you.
Then you're more than welcome to wait or they can email everything to you. I'd rather email. I have a a grandson that's got a pretty important doctor's appointment this afternoon. Yes, sir. Thank y'all. Thank you, board. Thanks, sir. Okay. Good morning, board. Yes, sir. Um, the next applicant appearing before you today is Mr. Eric Robertson. Mr. Robertson, please come to the podium. State your name and address for the record.
Always have problems with these little bikes. Sorry about that, sir. should pick you up without having Okay. It helps my back a lot. You know, my name is Eric Robertson. Um, H&M Construction. We've been in business for the address is 304 Cole Street. We have an office here in Pensacola. And but our main office is in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. All right. And that's 100 James Place, Pittsburgh, Monroeville, Pennsylvania 15146. And Mr. He did provide for everybody.
Absolutely. And Mr. Robertson is applying for the general contractor examination and appears before you today with 25 years and five months of experience. He has worked as construction president and foreman with his company HNMS incororated under Pennsylvania license number GC20201797 in the city of Pittsburgh. And uh of course as you all see he has provided the uh professional application packets and these packets reflect the information
provided in the agenda items and of course we would like to request a motion uh so that we could provide these uh packets as Miss Jennifer has been so kind. Great. Great. Wonderful. I just wanted to make sure just to let you know the packets that were dispersed were attached to the agenda. The same thing as the agenda. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for clarifying. Absolutely. And of course in there you will find that Mr. Robertson's uh general contractor license held in the city of Pittsburgh. Uh it it was issued by the department of permits, licenses, and inspections. You know, from 2018 to 2026 in active status,
and Mr. Robertson's responsibility as construction president and foreman include but are not limited to supervising crew members to execute daily construction activities, coordinating work schedules, ensuring coherent uh adherence to blueprints and safety regulations and managing training workers and what is it? Bidding estimates, ordering materials and managing payroll for over a 100 employees. And um Mr. Robinson also has supervised over 20 residential projects
and over 20 commercial projects and some of which are the East End Medical Center, uh, Pittsburgh Public Schools, Crazy Mocha Coffee, Las Vegas Medical Center, PNC Bank, and numerous affordable housing projects according to the documents provided. Mr. Robertson also provided us with the correspondence email that he had with the Mr. Craig Sipple who is the lead technician at the city of Pittsburgh department of permits and licensing and inspections and
uh Mr. Craig Sipple provided us with information on their definition of general contractor found in title 7 article V statute 75101 under construction registration required and it speaks to the definition that a contractor shall be defined to include general contractors with construction defined as reconstruction, demolition, alteration, modification, custom fabrication, buildings, assembling, site prep, preparation and repair work. don't own any real property or premise,
public or private. Based on the experience, verification, extensive supporting documents provided, and financial responsibility history check, staff recommends approval for examination. Would you like to tell us anything about yourself? Seems like we've ready to reach in my wallet and pay. I'm telling you, this guy, this guy here, he's a good promoter here. Yes. I'm I don't know what I need to say now, but uh no, I'm u also a 10-year Marine uh war veteran at Desert
Storm. The Thank you for your service. You're welcome. Uh I've uh worked in this industry for a long time and I leaned a lot on my military experience for that by running how I run my crews, how we do the jobs. um the uh the fact of quality and integrity. It it's a lot of guys that run around a pickup truck and say they're contractors. Uh I actually walk this walk from the corporate side into the actual conce. So I try to make sure that when we do projects that we have a
a really good understanding of what is going to be required, what are some of the pitfalls? what are some of the things that you could stumble on? We can't be sure of everything. You know, it's just one of those things, but the communication part of it is very key. You have to have the communication about what's going on. And that is where I lean on it's it's sometimes it's good and sometimes it's bad. The Marines, we we really pride ourselves on communication and obtaining the objective, you know, the excuses and oh, this was a problem. We don't we don't do that. It's just and when you
make a mistake, you know, you stand in front of the CO, take the licking and you learn from it. So, a lot of that effort is what I've been doing in my construction business for the past 25 years and it has lend itself to be quite successful. And I have a grandmother here in Pensacola and we wanted to build her a new house. She's 113. Oh, wow. Um, so that's part of the reason why I came. I'm coming here for this license. Um, and in that in that effort of researching,
there was a lot of things I've heard about some possibility for domestic violence housing. Um, we do a lot of things in Pennsylvania for those type of purposes, lowinccome, uh, domestic violence, um, home ownership programs through banks. So we try to keep our construction side on the side where it really benefits everybody more so than just we're doing commercial projects for the the rich and wealthy. So um we've had uh quite a few houses that we've
done where I've made relationships in the north with a lot of the vendors of uh Lowe's Home Depot and those guys. The bank programs they'll buy a dilapitated home. They'll take some people in the neighborhood, renovate the property, but take them through a class. This helps with decreasing the gentrification. So now these people can actually afford the house and we renovate the house from top to bottom. We take it all the way down to the studs, new roof. And one of the projects we did was kind of proud to me was we did one and we actually found a a um Samsung refrigerator with a
TV in it. And the flooring company had some really expensive flooring that they gave us pretty dirt cheap. And when we finished the house, it was a mother with three kids. And when she came in the house, she she literally just stopped at the door and started crying because she said, "I thought I'd never see a house like this on on HGTV, but I have one myself." And those little things for me mean more than just a dollar. Right. It's uh you know the I have Jesus on this arm and the Marine Corps on this arm. It's uh it's just one of those things I just and that's the kind of
contractor I am and I just wanted to apply come down and do the right thing. Um wanted to help my grandmother and even help some of the community if I can if there's some opportunities for us here locally. So that's after what Dante said. I don't know I got any much I'm running out. I'm trying My mom was alive. She couldn't even do that. Well, so but I I wanted to take any questions if you guys have any questions. And just You've been in
business since 200. 2000. I formed the company in 99, but I started right. So about 25 years. Very well represented here. Anybody have any questions? It's true. It's 25. See the gray right there? That's good. I would commend you first of all for what you have done for your community and your grandmother. Man, 113. That's That's uh She deserves a house, right? That's what I told her. I said, "Here I come." You know, after,
you know, a couple of switches I got taken to me back in the day. The least I could do. That's right. That's right. She deserves that. But yeah, anything that helps in the communities like that, that's always a there's a few of us up here are builders ourselves, and that's a very incredibly good thing that we like to hear. So, if I wasn't chair, I'd make the motion. Motion to approve. I second it. I have a motion in a second. All in favor, raise your right hand. All oppose, same sign. See, hear none. Thank you, Mr. Robertson. You've
been approved for this and uh welcome to our area. Thank you so much. Thank you, board. Have a good board members. Our next applicant to appear before you today is Mr. Michael Hudson. Mr. Hudson, if you would please come to the podium, state your name and address for the record, sir. Hello, everyone. Uh, Michael Hudson, my home address is 27495 Frank Road in Alberta,
Alabama. Mr. Mr. Hudson appears before you today requesting approval to take the general contractor's examination. He has held an Alabama general contractor's license for 22 years, 8 months, and 29 days. He has listed a detailed job description for your reference on the experience verification form, and he has provided a list of jobs as well for your reference along with copies of his Alabama general contractor's license. Mr. Hudson did answer yes to question number one relating to financial history. He has provided copies of the court records and a written
explanation for your for your reference. Uh based upon answering the question for financial history, staff will defer to the board for approval and denial of the application. Mr. Hudson, would you like to address the board with any of this? Um yes, sir. Um I'd like to apologize for my chicken scratch handwriting. Um okay. I didn't realize it was going to be as formal as what this is. I would have topped it up. But uh you know between working on the jobs,
overseeing everything, I you know just uh anyway um the one thing that I did answer yes to was going to be the uh bankruptcy and I did file chapter 7 uh uh bankruptcy back then. And uh you know just between the economy at that time uh my wife at that time uh this is not my wife at that time though that's my perfect wife right there. U but uh yeah so uh but yeah we anyway we've been
married for 17 years. We got seven kids and two grandkids. So everything is way different now. But uh during that time was a uh the housing crisis and a lot of things. I had been shortch changed on three jobs that put put me in a huge huge financial strain and then uh some family stuff going on at that time and everything led led to that. And basically I started over in uh you know in '08 is basically when I started over uh from scratch and everything. But uh during that time
I you know no jobs went uh sideways and everything was made whole on on all of those. Um I've had my home builder's license for uh he um he had called out 22 years on the GC, but that's actually the home builder side and I've had my GC for less than that. But um we do a lot of um work down on the beach um Gulf Shores Orange Beach. A lot of the concrete repairs, windows, doors, things
like that. And a lot of the things Mr. Gates was speaking of those complexes I work on also. And like I was um very aware of some of these issues of which they were not his issues. It was I mean what he was saying was very truthful. Um, but we work down there doing a lot of the restorations and I work very closely with the associations with the COAs and the POAS and HOAs. Um, I actually had a management company that I helped form back in 2020 and then my wife and I resold our shares
two years ago. So, we are used to dealing with entities and things like that. Um, I was on our city council for almost eight years in Alberta. I'm still our planning and zoning chairman in Alberta as well and um understand the ins and outs of a lot of the things that y'all have to deal with. But uh I am a smaller company. Um you know I am u right now I've got a $3 million bid limit in Alabama and I'm happy with that because I'm not looking to build any type of high-rise or
anything like that. you know, um I have several engineers that I work closely with that they had recommended me, you know, get my license over here because they have a lot of work over, you know, towards uh Partido Key and everything. So, uh I've always worked down that way, not in Florida, but you know, I love working down that way. So, I wanted to, you know, come this way. So most of the projects that you've listed here is not actually new construction. It's more work on like existing
buildings and so forth. And I heard you say that um you're not interested in building anything like over three stories. Is that what I heard you say? Well, no highrises. not interested in trying to build anything massive from ground up just because I'm I mean I'm happy with the niche that I have the smaller ones you know like in Gshores Orange Beach you know like the eightstory buildings and smaller you know u recotating resealing doors windows and that type you know u because I don't
want to get overwhelmed on projects and anything like that so um the reason I'm asking it is the experience that you have written along with what you have here. Um, general contractor is a big reach. appears and I was going to ask you were you would you consider something below that that would still
allow you to do this type of work but not uh be able to you know build the highrises because I don't see experience yeah this guy here does building contractor versus the general contractor general contractor there's a lot more that goes into it than the building contractor so based on the scope of work you're talking about that you'd like to do in that niche, uh maybe look at a building contractor license versus a general contractor's license because looking at the experience, I believe there's a lot more that goes into general construction or general contractor
than it does a building contractor. Board members, uh if it would be okay, may I address the board for just a moment? Sure. Just so in reference to building contractor and general contractor, of course, the height requirement is set at three stories and then above would be a GC. That also require is the same requirement internally. So if he were to hold a building contractor's license um and a condominium owner were to say, "We would like you to remodel the interior. We live on the fifth floor." He would not be able to do so. He would still need to have the general contractor's license to perform that particular scope of work. So anybody who works above three floors on those
condominiums, Yes, sir. is required. Correct. We need to get some uh we need to get some u of our investigators out there because I happen to uh work a lot in Pito Ki and I can assure you without any reservation. That is not publicly known. I did not know that until right now. I did. Yes, sir. I've been in here 40 something years and didn't know that. Yes, sir. Mr. Chairman, that's that's on renovation and not new construction, correct? Anything over that third floor,
fifth floor, you got to have a GC license and not a four four and up. Yes, sir. Mr. Tolbert, I'll have to check on it, but it used to be that a building contractor could do some nonstructural work on multi. That's what I thought. Yeah, that I I I need to check see if that changed. That's what I was referring to as the nonstructural. Yeah, windows and doors would be what, you know, anything that's uh on the exterior. Uh it'd be exterior doors and windows would require a uh general contractor over the three stories. Well, uh I'm not throwing anybody under the bus,
but I can assure you that there's a a lot of unlicensed activity. I know, right? Yeah. More than likely unp more than likely unpermitted activity, too, maybe. Yeah. But yeah, I would concur with that. I don't think uh and I agree with Mr. solister because I don't think a lot of the building contractors know that mm you know when they're going for a renovation job if it's on the eighth floor they're looking at the renovation job and if the windows a part of that renovation they're replacing the window
so I will say if it comes in for permitting that is something we do check we make sure that we catch it through the permitting process that's why the building official just said more than likely unpermitted do we ask the question that if it's in a condo if it just says 807 do we ask if it's on the eighth floor. How do we know when they turn in the permit for that? So, how we treat it is if the building is over three stories, it requires a GC period. Even if it's on the first floor, that that building is in excess of three stories. So, interesting to know.
I stand corrected. Well, that's that's different from Alabama, which I know u we're 30 years behind probably or more, but um yeah, in Alabama, you know, um if you're working inside the units and everything, um it's so loosey goosey over there. I mean, it's um you don't have to have anything other than a business license. I mean, that is it. you know, you have to turn in your, you know, proof of insurance and everything to the to the boards and everything like that. Um, but like,
you know, over in Alabama, it's a $100,000 limit on things for the exterior as well. And, um, one of my good friends, he works for the GC board. And um you know, basically anyone that's got a business license can jump on one of the buildings over there where we're at and do $99,000 worth of work and not even have a license at all. It's it's something else. Um but yeah, um I'm not sure um about the um levels of license here. Um well, you would need this if you're going to do what you're
doing. So that's what I said. I stand corrected because Mhm. Um, okay. We Well, two of us at least was not aware of that. Yeah. I mean, as far as being able to go and build um, [Laughter] I mean, being able to build something, you know, like that, a strip mall, something like that. I mean, that's definitely not out of my capabilities. I mean, it's, you know, it's right in my wheelhouse. I just choose not to. Um, I just don't want to get spread out that
much. I love being able to do different things. I don't want to be doing the same thing every single day. Um, I mean, I've got plenty of experience in every trade to be able to watch these jobs, oversee these jobs, and handle these jobs. Um, the only thing I'm not very familiar with is heating and air and plumbing, which you have to have licensed people for that as well. But um I do a lot of work on multifamily and I I build a lot of multif family rentals for ourselves and you
know I'm very familiar with the larger projects and everything that goes into it. I mean that's Mr. Chairman. Yes sir. reviewing the definition of building contractor part part of it uh the what we were talking about uh includes uh remodeling, repair or improvement of any size building if the services do not affect the structural members of the building. So
there may be a declaratory statement already on that what what's considered the members. So, uh, being able to do windows and doors possibly is okay. Just reviewing the the definition, but, uh, we'll we'll do some research on that. Maybe a maybe a declaratory statement or a a uh possibly a uh interpretation of that that we don't know about. I have a builder friend over on the east coast that replaces windows and so forth and he does
not have it. That's one that's another thing that flag me is I you know there's people I know that do it all the time through some of those other counties over there but that but that might be under so the the specialty licenses uh glass and glazing window door right if they hold that license that on on structures. So, it just really depends on what um right license type they hold. And the license type that I have in Alabama is is basically what you were describing there. Um you
know the structure is there whatever you know the height you know whatever I can repair remodel take out put back. Same with the structure specially licensed. Yeah. Yeah. Uh same with the structural issues and that that kind of thing. Right. So I mean that's what I have now over there. Any other discussion for anyone? Actually I I do but I don't know that this is specific. Um is there a reason that we need to ask
on the financial affidavit about bankruptcies past 10 years old? Because the rest of the world, credit, financial, everything, they stop at 10 years and they're forgiven and you move on. You've re, you know, rebuilt your life at that point. So why would we continue to ask that past that 10-year period? I would defer to those that are smarter than me. So, so Nick and I were talking about this and and this form, these questions on this form,
they were established before my tenure here at Eskimi County. Um, and the questions just say, "Have you ever um I'm assuming that was from direction by the board long before I came here." Um, so it's really at the discretion on the board if we want these questions to be revised or does these forms have to be approved by the board of commissioners to revise or anything? They don't. No, sir. It's internal forms and it's actually just like we
just did the experience affidavit form because this board wanted to see additional information. We can revise these forms to reflect the directives of the board. Okay. Mr. Mayor, if you will remember that before the meeting's over, we can address that part if that's okay. Good. Very good point. Very good point. Any other questions? I'll entertain a motion.
Make a motion to accept. To approve. Do I have a second? Second. Okay. I have a motion to approve and a motion to a second. Any discussion amongst the board? Anybody want to express your thoughts? I don't see any. All in favor, raise your right hand. All oppose. Same sign. Seeing none hear none. Motion is approved.
That's been approved for the general contractor license. All right. Thank you, board. And good news that you're going to get to sleep inside the house tonight. Good news you'll get to sleep inside the house tonight. Yeah, it's been rough. Uh board members, our next applicant to appear before you is Mr. Curtis Mclofflin. Mr. Mr. Mclofflin, if you would please come to the podium, state your name and address for the record,
sir. Uh, hello. Good morning. My name is Curtis Mclofflin. Uh, I reside at 1280 Mahogany Mill Road, Unit 10, uh, 32507, kind of right off of Bio Chico. Mr. Mclofflin appears before you today, requesting to take the building contractor's examination. He appears before you today with 5 years, 5 months, and 18 days of experience. He obtained this experience working for license holder Thomas Paleo, who holds a general contractor's license in the state of Oregon, license number 20-958. This license was established February the 6th, 2014. Uh
staff was able to locate the Oregon statute with a definition for general contractor and the state of Oregon's record for the qualifier. This has been included for the board's reference. Mr. Mr. Mclofflin did answer yes to question one as it does relate to financial history. He did include copies of his court documentation along with written explanation as well for the board board's reference. Because of the financial history provided by the applicant, staff's recommendation will be to defer to the board for decision.
Uh Mr. Mclofflin, would you like to address the board today with some of this? Uh sure. Um, first of all, the the experience, um, it was more than five years. Uh, but you asked for four. So, I've been working with Tamas, uh, Polo since 2020, uh, when I left Portland Commercial Construction for a hiatus of construction since I was 14. Um, so, uh, I learned I got my learner's permit and a contractor truck huffing subfloor, uh, in my summers of high school up through,
uh, actually working with a, uh, inline commercial construction for about 10 years there actually almost exclusively doing hospital work. So, microp piles uh, underneath hospitals up into uh, building wings uh, which is a lot of fun. also uh although internally rewarding, not very rewarding working with a large corporation. So backed back down to um some smaller general contractors uh doing work all over the Portland metro area, including Vancouver. Uh,
I went through a extremely contentious divorce in uh, the early 2000s uh, of which I still deal with um, today. My kids are my my oldest daughter actually is getting married this next summer and is no longer on our parenting plan uh through that divorce, but I still have a son who is um 17, a senior this year that I still deal with that particular um co-parent on. So, uh I do have
uh five other kids, one who lives here in uh Pensacola. My wife and I have relocated to here. We're sort of transitioning from Portland to here. Uh don't worry, we are not bringing our polit the Oregon politics this way, which is why we're coming here and the water and the bay. Uh so uh I have had some issues with the uh family court uh for say of non my ex fighting for different things and then when they go to serve you they they're given a place to serve and it wasn't
my house even though my my mailing address was correct on my license and everything else. And so when I found out that all of a sudden I had been served months prior, that I had a um a a warrant out for my arrest or or whatever it was, it's not quite like that, but um I immediately went and took care of it and they uh resolved it right then. So uh twice that happened. I don't know how it happened the second time because I lived the same place, but I was not served there. So anyway, uh as far as uh Pensacola, like uh in the last two years, we've bought five rentals here, including a
personal home. Uh we still have a home in Oregon, but and we're transitioning our daughter who's uh just moved into high school out to Escambia here uh next month. So um November, uh we're moving here full-time uh just in time for the homecoming show. So, as well and as far as a general contract license, we have several rentals here that we've bought over the past two years. The biggest frustration here is we remodeled the deck on our our personal house. I got I contacted no less
than 10 contractors. I received three people who walked it. I received one bid. I had questions and I never got a response from it. Um, so I ended up going through and doing the work myself, finding out a little bit more about what we needed for our licensing there. That I could kind of do it if we were living there, but on the rentals we can't. So, in the in the past week, this has happened to be going through this timing. I'm trying to get a roof done on another rental for insurance purposes on on a refinance. And again, 10 contractors, two bids. The the one person that we were negotiating
because they were responsive like like getting them to actually proceed has just been difficult on a on a on a residential small scale. So, I just I would like to bring that in house so we can kind of manage some of those things ourselves. Um, we do have some lots here as well. I excited to, you know, continue to grow our small small rental portfolio of up to four unit buildings potentially. That was the only reason for the um building contractor license versus something a little bit smaller where it was less than three stories and less than three units. So,
thank you, Mr. Mclofflin. I do have a question. I see an explanation and maybe you guys can help me if we missing paperwork here. I see an explanation for the um motion in order to dismiss contempt of court and then you explained in your letter uh about the warrant issued you know for contemplative court since you wouldn't that
you but what I'm not seeing is the bankruptcy he listed on there. You see the top one? To Miss Mary's credit, it may have been long term ago, but we have no clue, no information that I have seen in here. Maybe I'm missing it. Is there something I'm missing? These would be all documents that were provided, sir. Um, is it possible that that the the wrong box was checked at that time? It's not possible. Like I said, uh when I went through that contentious divorce, um during the divorce, my partner at the time filed bankruptcy, came to court, and
I was ordered to file bankruptcy because we were still joint married. And not only did she do that, I couldn't file under a chapter 11 because now I was a sole filer and I didn't have the kids. So, I was ordered by the judge to before I came back to court the next time to complete my bankruptcy filing or um back to the statement of sit in the corner and wait for your paycheck uh at that time.
So, uh something to know, I do hold my Florida real estate license. So, that was what tipped me off to a few of the other things that did come up even though I have never been prosecuted of crime. Um, and I did answer that way on my Florida real estate license that I acquired just about uh two years ago, year and a half. And so, uh, as far as the, um, other explanation of the the the things that, uh, the contempt of court hearing, that's the only reason why I knew it was might come and why I just provided it. And we appreciate you presenting that. It's just the bankruptcy
thing. We don't What What year was the bankruptcy? 2011. So, And that could be a year off. Yeah. Any other questions from anyone? I'm also looking at your duties of employment versus the number of projects that you said you've done. So on your duties of uh job duties,
it doesn't show anything about buildouts, shows buyouts, estimates, managing people. Also, have you done any actual groundup houses or any type of development? Uh I did a twostory 20,000 foot medical building uh for Providence Medical Center. When you say you did, you were a sub working with a GC. I worked for Inline Commercial Construction. I was the superintendent on site, superintendent in charge of uh my project engineer who did the buyout,
but I approved all of it. So from that was from ground up. Uh basically we cleared the lot. We were on site next door in a job trailer for about 18 months. That was a decent size job. You've only listed uh is it Pablo's GC? Correct. You asked for four years of experience. That was the past four years. So, um I have over a hundred medical projects um from
that was probably the largest groundup um that I personally was in charge of start to finish to working in every hospital in the Portland metropolitan area, all seven of them, including three years as the general superintendent at uh Providence St. Vincence uh doing fit outs or tenant improvements from the basement IT department. We we took them to digital X-ray which meant um bringing fiber throughout the entire building so they could scan and and not push
files but you know do all the improving of the low low voltage systems from the CAT I don't even know what the CAT start cat ones up to changing that every three years to the fiber currently um to NICU remodels. I am Ashley certified. I have my OSHA 40. Um, I have countless med gas certifications and other things. I started life as, like I said, doing subfloor. Uh, I spent the majority of my commercial life going from metal stud framing and acoustical ceilings into the
superintendent role into the project man role, project manager role. So, not only can I draw plans, but I can read them ex extremely well. um well verssed in most project management software, including the scheduling. Uh as profitable as a a $200,000 a year project management job is, uh I also do not get to relocate to Florida and spend time on my boat in the water. So as decided that that's great to be able to do, but it it also has ties to to not. So um now I
flip homes. currently have a project that I uh am working with Tomas on. Actually own the project, own the house and work through him and I help him I've helped him grown grow his business from doing smaller re renovations to we just completed a 13-unit um conversion. it was a farmhouse into into 13 units. Uh working with the owner uh and then going through that with the architect through
the permitting process of the city of Portland. I currently have a triplex conversion that I'm working on. I'm actually when I leave here, I got some stuff back from the architect that I've been working on with for about three weeks. Uh, and now we're doing a a duplex to triplex conversion, which in Portland means that we're going from a residential code to a commercial code, which has a few ramifications. Uh, anything less than 7 ft from the property line means fire rated. Um, it has some structural improvements because it is an older building. And then also fire
sprinklers throughout the whole property, but just um the residential fire sprinklers. uh for that I'm filling out the the final permit application stuff um today which I'm doing for Tomas and manage that side of it. So let me ask a question to staff. This is for my knowledge only. So do we have a renovation license that anybody that's doing renovation can get? We don't. So, uh, residential properties, there would be a residential contractor's license up to three
floors. Commercial would be building and then general, but they would all be based upon a division one license through 489105. So, to answer your question, there's not a remodeler's license, right? Correct. I mean, it's just that kind of puts us in an awkward position when we're issuing out permission for builder's license and general contractor's license and we just don't see enough uh experience that's been had and another question to staff. So, do we verify the employment or the
subcontractor's employment? And what process do we use to verify that? Uh we would utilize the experience verification form uh for that experience. Again, it was signed and notorized by Mr. Paleo. Um if it would be to the the pleasure of the board, staff could certainly request continuence of the matter and get more information for Mr. Mclofflin. We'll be happy to reach out to Mr. Puyo for you. I think I would like to and I even though the application says four years if you know it's a part of something that's going to help you get this builder's license. Um and
I don't know maybe uh we can add some language in our application that if it affects in any way for you achieving your application that you're applying for please list items outside of four years so we can look and see because there may be language in there like you just said but based on this application I'm looking at and I know we just asked for the last four years. Yeah, I just don't see the qualifications. And you may have it, and I'm pretty sure from what you told me you do, but it's just not enough on this documentation. I can show you pictures from yesterday pouring the foundation from the addition that we're doing on the three-story house, which would would meet
this qualifications today, of which I am, as soon as I get leave finish application for Portland, I'm going to jump on the phone call with the HVAC guy, you know, to talk about the duct work modifications because it's an extensive remodel on a $1.2 $2 million three-story Victorian in downtown Vancouver. Um I'll defer to the board. So the definitions that we use are straight from the state of Florida. Um and so those are the guidelines the state of Florida uh has you know
as far as experience qualifications we ask that they provide all experience and I know that this board requires at least four years and that's what was relayed is that they require at least four years. We always tell him provide as much as you can. Um and and it sounds like he has in excess of what he what he actually provided. So yeah, um it would be easy to go back and uh look at laptop kind of provide a a resume of projects. It's it's a little more difficult to go back and go back to um Portland commercial and inline and say, "Hey, can I get copies of your
um uh construction contractor licenses for this year, this year, and this year?" That that's where it was easiest to go to Tomas and say, "Hey, um this is what they're asking me to do. Can you help me with this? This is what it is." And he is not a English is not his first language. Um, so some understanding of of those particular things, you know, was is a conver a different conversation than than a construction piece of it. Um, so thank Mr. Irwin, do you have a question?
Yeah. You said you were currently working on a project poured concrete yesterday. Yes, in Vancouver or Washington. Yeah, I'm starting a roof today. by starting a roof today uh off of Barancus. I mean, I'm pulling up and watching the roofer start the roof today. I guess I'm confused. Who's the contractor? Uh the license is I'm working with Tomas Pleo. So, who Tomas PO the my He's talking about the one locally. He is he's talking about the projects locally that you
have not the project locally is a roofing project and I have the cons commencement of work and the permit was pulled here. I'm not the I'm not the contractor for that. I'm just the property owner. So you're currently not doing any building projects here? Not here. No. No. But I have rentals and like we did a deck earlier this year that we permitted through that again I uh it was it was very large complicated deck. It wasn't it it was it was a large complicated
deck and so getting pricing and getting stuff done when it's on this residential scale has been difficult to get stuff completed. Um this particular roof of which I have two more houses that will need roofs in the next 5 to 10 years. I know um being able to perform that would just be a benefit to us. And I have a lot next to this house that we're doing a roof that I would like to build a duplex or or forplex on. Um, which is the reason that I want the building license to be able to do that forplex piece. All um, residential single family, but forplex here
is not considered residential single family as opposed to Oregon where it is in Florida. Um, doing this work on flipping these places. I would just tell you need to be careful until you get your license. We don't flip here. Okay. So like um even even the ones you own. Yeah. You have to make sure that you're got licensed contractors doing the work. That Yeah. Yeah. That that was that started it last year when we had some of the work done like starting to understand
what was going on. It was it's fine. Um most of the stuff we're doing is you know painting and countertops and I mean we have three rentals. um we have not done any um large stuff. So this the biggest thing was this spring was was the deck and kind of going through the process and that started this process and it's like well it'd be nice to be able to manage these things myself. You have a motion from anyone on this concerning the experience and the etc.
I think it was made mention maybe for them to do more research is I would need a motion for that. I'll make a motion to uh do some more research and bring back some more backup documentation and then we can reconsider the application. Do you have a second to that? Second. Second. I have a motion and a double second. All in any discussion? All in favor, raise your right hand. All oppose, same sign.
See none hear none. We're not saying no. We're just saying we need more information just to and we hear what you're saying. We just need that verified really what we're doing. Yeah. And um when you say more information like so you've explained to us uh that you've built buildings and houses and stuff. So that's the experience that we need listed. What it is that you've built, where it is that you've built, and whose general contractor's license have you built. uh we just need that information documented into this so that way when this goes in to
the application process if it ever comes back out back back out then we know that you know we did our due diligence on when you and back to when you want the a little bit more experience like typically what I would do for like a bank or in Oregon was I'm going through and giving a job a project description and an address so they can realize what that we just want to know I just want to know what it is that you've built. So, however you can document that, and I don't mean like you built directly by yourself, but if you worked under a GC and they've built these 14 homes or,
you know, three-story building, that's what I need. I mean, I understand the part about that you're showing that you manage people, hiring, you know, organization working with architects, engineers. Uh but we also need something in the document that you've been a part of this building or this structure or these five buildings or four buildings whatever that may be to give us the or give me the confidence feeling to know that you've built through a sub or through employment of a GC. Even the project on 52nd which is included in here is a three-story property that was I mean
I can show you the foundation. We dug out six feet of the basement to pour back 18 inches of foundation space and then completely remodeled the eight units that were in that building, the duplex that was the building next door. So even that terminal that is on this particular resume which literally just completed this spring of this year with a full occupancy. These guys can get with you to detail it out more and you know just to make sure that we have it we can put you back on the agenda. Yeah. You come back next month and they'll be right back on the agenda. They can, but they'll
take care of all that for you. Okay. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you for your time. Yes, sir. All righty. The next applicant appearing before you today is Mr. Jason Taylor. Mr. Taylor, please come to the stadium. I'm sorry that's the podium station. Jason Taylor, 1286 Harrison Avenue, Golf Breeze, Florida 32563. All right. Mr. Mr. Taylor is applying for reciprocity from
Santa Rosa County for the roofing contractor examination with license number RC 29027908 and appears before you today with four years and nine months of experience in this trade. He worked as roof in foreman supervisor for complete general contractors incorporated and worked uh under the supervision of John Miner uh who holds an active license number CGC 061674
since 2004. And Mr. Taylor's job responsibilities include, but are not limited to, hands-on, roofing, installation, repair, and re-roof on residential and commercial projects. He read blueprints and work orders, prepared job sites, and ensured code compliance for over a 100 projects within the five years according to the documents provided. And um Mr. Taylor did have uh some uh records that he did check yes to. Um and based upon
the court records provided, staff will defer to the board for final decision. Thank you, M. Taylor. Would you like to tell us something today? I'll keep it brief. I know time is short. You guys got a lot of people to get to. My name is Jason Taylor. I was uh born in 1978 in rural Kentucky. I grew up as a farm boy. Um, all my aunts and uncles and my dad were contractors. After high school around 20, I realized I needed to do something different. Went to college for
four or five years. Changed my major a few times. Didn't get my bachelors. Um, I did have a few alcohol charges when I was younger. Been sober for 11 years. My wife's helped me out. Uh, 29, I started my first business. Uh, 39, I bought my first flip with cash. I'm almost 49 now. Uh 15 years I've been with my wife, never filed bankruptcy, never been sued, never hired a lawyer, never had a claim against me. Uh one insurance claim for a window we broke at Portoino a few
years ago. Other than that, uh my business record squeaky clean. Uh and that's kind of the just synopsis there. If you want more detail, I could stretch it out. Um I I see you're also uh doing reciprocity. This will be the next one for residential contractor. But on both of those uh it states that your dates of employment was from 2005 to 2009. Yes, sir. I've been self-employed for almost 20 years. So that was So since 2009, you've been self-employed? Yeah,
I started my first business at 29. And when did you get licensed in Santa Rosa County for the reciprocity here? I'm trying to figure this out. My wife handles all that. She could probably It's the brains of the operation. Last year, year before last year, that's what I thought. So, you just got your license over there, right? Mhm. So, in those years, 15 years, what it was between then and now? 15 16 years. What type of work were you involved
in? Remodeling just for basically Golf Breeze in Pensacola Beach. And while I was on my last flip, uh, you know, when life's going good, you don't make any changes. And then, uh, I did 107 Tomahawk was my last flip. You could Google that. I'm very proud of it. Uh, the sacrifice that went into that place. I fell off the scale footing. And after I fell off, I was laid up in bed for a couple of months. And we were working for a big job on the beach for Ron Ladner, the owner of Shaggies Restaurant. And you don't want to let this guy down. And while I wasn't on the job site,
uh, things started to not go well. you know, production, efficiency, labor, materials. We lost a ton of money on that job. And that really showed me how fragile my business model was. And instead of offering like 25 different trades to the a small segment of the population, the wellto-do out there, I would like to just really focus on one trade to all of Northwest Florida. um specifically something labor intensive and not particularly technical uh compared to walk-in custom showers and and new kitchens and uh you know and all the electrical and plumbing uh whereas roofing is more
labor intensive and that's where I really want to put my focus and that's kind of why I'm here today sir. So, if I'm hearing you correctly, you were essentially contracting. Yes. Without a license? No, I I have a business license. It's a It's a remodeling license. The work he was performing such as like cabinetry and painting and flooring and things non loadbearing doesn't require wasn't structural stuff. Yeah. No loadbearing, no architects, no engineers. Yes, sir. Okay.
Just a little flag went off. It sounded like it was okay. Anybody have any questions? Questions? I'll entertain a motion. Does the board have any questions for Mr. Taylor? Okay. So, I will entertain a motion of what to do
to approve or not approve or move it to another meeting or I I do have a just a point that you um Mr. Mr. Taylor that you need to check and that I noticed that you put Hisco as your insurance for the roofing license and his cox generally does not cover roofing activity. So you need to consult with your agent. Absolutely.
Okay. You don't need to give it to me. You need to Yeah. I'm just Yep. We have a insurance owner, company owner who keeps us straight in that regards. Well, do I have any motion from anybody from the board or do we just I imagine that it's going to have to
have some discussion. So, uh, does anybody have anything to add to this particular application? You can express your reservations, your concerns, or whatever, but we'll have to we'll have to decide something. So, as a as another point, uh, Mr. Taylor is also our next applicant on our agenda. uh also seeking to reciprocate his
residential contractor's license. So, I don't know if that would help in your discussion or so. Can we go through that application also or do we have to we would have to we could talk about it but we would have to table this until we have the discussion on the next Yeah. as the board, you can do what you need, what you feel is appropriate. Um, if it's easier to
take them both at the same time, then you could do that. It's your decision- making on this. I would recommend that we listen to the second application if everybody's okay with it and then that way we can make a decision. But understanding on the first application, uh, there was nobody that made a motion. So, um, that ultimately means that, uh, the board doesn't have confidence. um they want to unless unless I'm mistaken. I mean, that's how I look at the board, right? Uh but let's go through that second application and maybe there's something in that application that
can spark something on the first application. I think and also where I'm kind of having some question marks and it's with regarding both of the applications how it stops at 2009. So just from 2009 to present time, what have been the projects? What has been what he was saying he's been working in renovations, but he's not been a contractor, nor was he working for I've had a contracting crew for over 15 years, sir. Yeah. Which I understand,
but Complete Home Remodelers. This is what's the name of that was the name. Complete Home Remodelers. Complete Home Remodelers. But the work that he was doing did not require him to be licensed. Right. I'm just wondering where and why it's not stipulated and maybe someone that he worked with giving some more documentation as to what he was doing, description of work, etc., etc. to bring him to this point right now. Yeah, this is a this is a this is a tough one
because from what we're hearing from staff is that the work that he was doing did not require him to be licensed, but the work that he was doing is work that a contractor would do and hire people to do the work. And there's a gray area here that sent me off while ago. This was I asked because if he was doing if he was doing remodeling work in an existing house
just to put a scenario here and part of that is that the plumbing need to be redone somewhere or electrical need to be done or anything that would require permits. I'm assuming at that point he let them go get the permits themselves which protected him still from not having to do it. M tool could probably help me with this. There is is there a number somewhere where
there's a dollar amount if I'm not mistaken there was a dollar amount somewhere on a remodel that triggers a permit or am I mistaken with that? No, it'd be u something similar would be a notice commencement. uh you have once you meet a certain dollar amount, you have to file a notice of commencement, but I'm not aware of not having to have a permit. Uh there's some exemptions um and and I would have to look them up, but um it
it goes along with uh the notice commencement and um there's there's one for a storage shed in the backyard. Um but I would have to look all that up. All right. Nothing just stands out that that Okay. I've already been approved for the state registered license. I take the text uh the test next week. Do I still need to be approved for Escambia County? Well, tell you sir, if you get your state license, you can look at us in your rearview mirror. Oh, that's wonderful news because
we're not trying to be difficult with you. We're really not. Are you Are you talking about your state certified license? Because state registered is different. Yes. state. I already passed the GC license 5 years ago over in Tallahassee for the state certified. GC the big the big license like this. Yeah. Not there's two the reason I'm saying there's two different levels. It's state registered and state certified. Yes sir. I follow you. You follow me? I do. Okay. And you've already I feel insanely overqualified for this roofing license. Yeah. I've already passed the GC license.
the the paperwork problem was six months of, you know, you got to get everything stamped and notorized. You got to pay us the the credit check, the fingerprint check, right? And then I bought my first flip and I said, "Look, sweetheart, after 6 months of filling out paperwork, let's just try a different path." Then we went after my realtor license because I don't want to pay all the commissions while I'm flipping and selling houses. So, we kind of put that in the back burner. We weren't able to submit that today because it's 5 years and four months old. All of those tests I passed those state not. Yeah. Yeah. They expire after expired. That's right. Now I got to go take
my third or fourth test. Is this documentation in the backup? Was it provided? Yeah. They said it was expired. My wife tried to submit it because uh those are very difficult tests. It is. Yeah. There's some of us here that are state certified. So we appreciate that. In Tallahassee, you take three or four days off work. Yeah. Big deal. And I thought naively, if you've been building houses your whole life as a farm boy from Kentucky, you pass the test, you're in. And I was completely mistaken. Yeah. Florida is tough. Yes, sir. But we protect our citizens. That's the whole purpose of,
you know, that's why I'm here. Yeah. You're right. You're right. And we're not I don't hear anybody uh challenging your abilities. The process here is what we're trying to make sure we're following. Uh forgive me for getting defensive. No, no, man. Hey, you worked hard to get where you're at. There's There's no uh My brother was born in a trailer. Yeah. Just to give you an idea of how humble my background is. Yeah. Yeah. We didn't Just cuz we're up here today don't mean
we didn't come from some stuff. We got stories. I guess I don't Mr. Taylor, is your middle name D R O P? It's a French author. It is. Mhm. So, what you'll see on your screen right now is um eligible for exam from the state for a general contractor's license. So, that means they did provide him with eligibility to take the exam. They won't update this until they actually issue the license to him. So, um he he may or may not have already passed the examination and they're waiting on
other things, but the state did approve him based on his experience to sit for that exam. Thank you. So, we're kind of back to
the time frame here and the the work he has done since 2009 did not require him to have a license. So that's why there's nothing shown here from 2009 to now just a general business license and homeowners, you know. Right. Right. Yeah. I'm talking about contractor license. Maybe I should said that word. Yes, sir. Yeah, you're right. You still have to have your business license, right? But as far as a contracting license, contracting license.
Now I'm going to the uh second application that you've applied for. So on there you've listed employment information, complete general contractors, and you're a W2 employee. So was the Complete General Contractors Inc. licensed and by whom if it was? His name's John Miner. Uh he's an expert witness. I came down after Katrina. This is I'm glad you led me into this. I was shoveling sandbags as all the other farm boys. By the end of the week, I was running the crew. By the end of the month, I was in Orlando uh for two weeks. He flew me down there for exacttoate
training. As anyone knows, all the insurance carriers, if you're going to file a claim with an insurance carrier or a supplement claim or the wind mitigation, uh I got I got certified in that. Uh which, you know, I was 25 years old and uh this was the opportunity of a lifetime. First great man I ever met. The day after I got back from Orlando for my exactate certification, I met a two-term state senator named Carol Ingram over in Mississippi. His law office, as you're walking down, it has pictures with all the presidents. I'll never forget that. There's Carter, there's Bush and Ford and Reagan. I'm like, this guy, this guy's something else. So
anyway, we we do that. It's for the Chateau Chateau de Laure. It's a $35 million complex over in Buxy. And John Miner was represent. I was the estimator. And I did the power. I didn't do any talking. Of course, these were all older gentlemen. I was just a kid, but I did the PowerPoint presentation. That was my first day after becoming exacttoate certified. Uh, you know, I he loved me and I loved him like a father. And that's how I got started. Just to throw that in there. And that was back in 2009 also, right? 2011 when I That was probably right after Katrina five.
Yeah. I started off as a grunt and within a month your play was up until 2009. Yeah. And uh he's now in Miami. He's done a lot in the last 20 years. I looked him up. I haven't talked to him in decades and we picked up right where we left off. And he's gotten rid of his GC crew. You know, he's not he's just an expert witness doing wind and flood mitigation for these attorneys cuz there's some giant checks involved and uh you know, the lawyers get in it. That's how I got started in in this.
So my my the issue with me is because I've been self-employed for 15 20 years. Is that why I can't get a license? It's not that you've just been self-employed. It's the activities that you've done during that 15 years. What I'm feeling borderlines contractor work, but yet you were not. You definitely do. Yeah. My wife's looked all of this up. You don't need any permits, any inspections, any engineers, any architects. That's why I steered away from any loadbearing work. That's why when I flip a house, instead of bulldozing it, I'd rather just repair all
the floor the trusses. That way, I can get done in six months, instead of waiting for six years for all the Right. That's a metaphor. It's not six years, but No, I understand. Yeah. Yeah. My wife's in charge of all this. I thought this would be a I'd be in and out in like 30 seconds. I'm still up here sweating, you know. Uh we're not trying to make you sweat. We just want to make sure we hot in here. Due diligence here with it. Yeah. Um, and this is just a roofing license. I mean, I'm not uh you know, I've never had a complaint filed against me in my life. No, but but you know, and I see that your experience is that you actually performed hands-on roofing
installing and repairs and so forth and from 2005 to 2009. Right. So, the last 15 years, I don't see that you actually done any hands-on roofing experience. the last four years what they asked for. I understand. And so that that's kind of like of course I understand. It's like riding a bike. I mean I haven't done roofing and I don't even know when cuz when I started they didn't have to have license to do that. Yeah. I pulled all the permits on the houses I now I could probably
roof one. Yeah. But I'm not going. Alen shingles is a one or a two to to flip the property. Yeah. And I think to be fair too, it's not just a roofing license to just make that known. The residential contractor also. Yeah. It's it's u but also we're here to protect the residents of Escambia County. And just looking at this like I'm a very much trust but verify type person. So I trust what you're saying, but I want to verify it. Of course. And that's why my questioning with from I'm gathering what y'all are saying that if he does sit for the state,
then he can look in the rearview mirror and he doesn't need us. So should this be continued and we just see then he doesn't even have to come before us and he can just go off the state because while it was brought up and Jennifer pulled it up for us trust but verify my humble two cents. I don't want to strangle overnats either at the same time. I mean, if the guy's got his
qualifications met, you know, we want to be careful not to be too the state has is met the straight qualifications. Am I right? Can you repeat that? The state qualifications have been met. That is correct. So, keep in mind the state, we get our qualifications from the state, the requirement of the four years, right? Uh Santa Rosa does not require any experience um for him to test there and he took the test there for building contractor residential contractor and roofing
contractor passed both of those examinations in Santa Rosa. He has held both of these license for a period in excess of two years in Santa Rosa. During that time he did get qualified um from the state of Florida to sit for the GC's examination. Again, their requirements for to sit for the exam for the state are the same as ours of four years of experience. Is that So, you've been working in Santa Rosa since you received that? Do you have any of that
information? Um, sure. As in like So, ma'am, if you'd like to come up to the podium. Yeah. I'm sorry. We I don't even know what I'm talking about. She handles all that. That's right. That's good. We've been there. Nothing wrong with that. Hi, Shelley Taylor. Um, the forms that we fill out do not specify give all of your employment history. And that's what I was actually going to talk to them about after we left here. It states it wants your experience in order to get licensed or in order to get like his roofing license. It says four years.
You need at least four years, but he's also got college. But it needs to be more specific, I think, and say, basically, give me your resume for the last whatever because it's asking for your experience verification for that license or for that, which like the other gentleman, he only put four years down because that's all he had. I know he did the last four years, but Jason didn't have any um licensed because we didn't have a license for contractor. So, I put what he needed to get this license, you know what I mean? So make sense or not,
but that's just I think the forms need to be a little more specific or just even just a line saying give us all of your information, you know, and that's why I didn't include that because he's got we've got tons of projects that we've done over the last 15 years that I could have included. I didn't think it was necessary. I thought you guys wanted what was necessary for him to get licensed or the reciprocity. We've just redone the forms to him. My apologies if I may. Yes, sir. Mr. Speak to this matter. Uh, yes, they were giving the new updated verification forms that
goes very much in depth with the details that the board has requested of us and our applicants and we definitely explained it in detail um, several times in office with our applicant here. Okay. And I think what Miss Luna was was asking is, can you provide a a description or a detail of the projects you've done in the last two years under the license that you were issued from Santa Rosa? That's correct. Thank you, Jennifer. Yes, definitely.
Can you do that right now? Yes, that'd be wonderful. Thank you. Yes. The last I'm sorry, what was the question? So, if you could detail the work experience that you have had underneath the license that you received in Santa Rosa County. Of course. Um, the construction license for Yeah, we I've been running a remodeling business um for about 15 years. Um, we're just looking for since you got your license in Santa Rosa County. We're just looking for what you've
done under your new official license. Sure. Not just what you've done remodeling. Yeah, because of the reciprocity. We want to focus in on take the air, make it a little smaller, too. We're not trying to play drill sergeant on you here. We're not trying to be a Marine. We're we're trying to get a good understanding. So, we're not trying to make you sweat, Mr. Taylor. Just want you to know that. Okay. Just the last couple years that you've been licensed in Santa Rosa, what projects have you done since then? Uh, the last project I did. Sure. And not to interrupt,
maybe it would assist if you could give them an accounting of the permits that you've pulled in Santa Rosa for these projects. Uh, the last couple of permits I pulled was for my personal property flip, uh, 107 Tomahawk. Um, we bought it I bought it at auction.com for 158. In 6 months, I sold it for 325. I built the whole thing from scratch with my bare hands. I'm very proud of it. anything you sacrifice that much for, uh, you'll have a piece of nostalgia attached to it. Um, before that, uh, because I had gotten into property flipping, I thought that was going to be the direction of
my life. I thought I'd never come back to this environment, but then I fell off the scaffolding that I mentioned earlier and I hurt myself and I was in bed for a couple of months. That's why I need to go back to hiring a crew and young men. Anything beside the tomahawk? Uh, yeah. Uh there was a there was several additional properties. Are you looking for customers that I've worked for or experience of under your license is all we're trying to do now? Okay. That's what was asked for is just under the license. Just within the last two years focus last two years. So uh the the
house before that we worked on was Ron Ladders. He owned Shaggies. Uh it was a beach house, but I don't think we pulled any permits for that because uh didn't do any structural work. That's why I've done thousands of jobs. I maybe pulled 10 permits. Gotcha. Uh and I'm not sure how many I've pulled in Kentucky that weren't personal or other than Kentucky. Um that's why I'm pursuing uh just to do one service instead of doing 25 different trades. Gotcha.
Okay. So we're again we're looking for reciprocity from San Rosa County to Escambia County. same consensus. I don't know, man. I'm recommending that if you've got the state license, uh, go in that direction now, unless somebody wants to make a motion. I I just want to ask a question to the board here. What is the concerns? because nobody's talking except me seems like and Miss Luna and Mr. Patel, what's the what is the concerns of the accepting his license
from San Rosa County to Escambia County? Can I get a little help? What are the concerns? Is that is that a good question? That's a good question. And because both of them are accepted, one's accepted by the state, so everything that they require is already there. and from Santa Rosa County clearly has been doing work for two years. So that also shows evidence of the replication, right? So where's the concerns? So maybe Alton, instead of it being subjective, maybe we could have it objective and have Jennifer because I know Jennifer, you stated that Santa Rosa County
is much different from Escambia County where their standards and expectations lie. So Santa Rosa has no experience requirement. They'll allow anyone to sit for the exam and take the examination, right? Whereas the state uh to go state certified and Eskeia County, we both require four years of experience. Now, there are several methods of gaining that experience, hands-on, foreman, uh college, military, college, all of those items. So, whatever based on what they provide to us during their application process, we compile that all together and and create a packet for you guys.
Um, it's up to the board on on whether they want to approve it or not, whether you feel like they have enough hands-on experience or form an experience within each particular um application they're applying for. In this instance, there's two different applications. And in reality, we're thinking about three different applications. You have roofing that he's wanting to reciprocate. You have residential that he's wanting to reciprocate. But then you also have this other dynamic of general contractor with the state that he's going for. Um general contractor still
will not allow him to do roofing, right? Um so keep in mind you're you're actually this board is reviewing and thinking about three very different things from three very different jurisdictions, right? Maybe there in lies the confusion. And also my question um kind of going off of that, is there a duration of time of which the experience needs to be within? So like if I had roofing experience 20 years ago and then I wanted to go lay a roof and get my permit or license,
am I able to? That is an excellent question and that's a question that's recently becoming been going before the uh DBPR because they've looked at legislation which has not passed yet of it being a specific time frame in which the this experience needs to be obtained right within the last 10 years did they have this this four years of experience that hasn't been adopted as of yet. So there really is no rule or requirement as to when they obtain the experience.
So again, what is the concern? I I hear nothing and I would appreciate just is it the experience because that's the only thing that Santa Rosa does not require that we require. So is it the experience and he's done uh he has been approved through the state covering the experience. So where's where's the hesitation and there's this is open. Nobody scorns anyone for
for being honest here. So I just need some Well, for me it it is the the experience. Uh because as most of you all know, I've been flipping houses for 40 years, but I have a certified contractor's license and it bothers me to be able to go take a test without any any experience. So, I think that these applications should be show us that they have the experience. I'm not taking anything away from but I mean I flipped 52 houses. So, that's my thoughts on it. Thanks, Chris.
Somebody else want to queue up with me? So, I just need clarification because we've kind of been all the way around the world. So, right. Um, and so now I'm confused just from where I'm at. Are you or are you not licensed with the state? No, he is not. Not yet. All right. So, none of the state licenses are done. And then the only license that he does hold is with Santa Rosa, which holds has
no a no experience requirement. That is correct. He holds a Santa Rosa County roofing license and a Santa Rosa County residential contractor's license. Um the requirement at the time that he tested did not require any experience. However, he's had that license, those licenses now for a period in excess of two years. and he does have experience on Tomahawk l whatever the address was he does have to trail that one is in a scambia county he pulled the permitting
as an owner builder okay so uh that was not actually done within Santa Rosa with his license so would additional information help the board if it would request more information and and what would that information need to look like? Experience. Well, the experience especially what
she was just saying that he actually pulled the homeowners permit that that's experience and it's not why they didn't put that in is and is kind of it's defeating the purpose. That is experience that we're looking for and he he's got it but he didn't put it forth. Thank you, sir. So, do we go ahead and approve now that we know there's experience or do we need to document experience before we approve or? So, on the on the approvals, uh, Jennifer, do we need to do it individually or do we Yes, we need to one case by the next. Yes. Yes, sir. We definitely need to do
that. But I'm my my question is, do we accept his words today as the experience and we move forward? I I need to get off zero here. Yeah, we got the the bubbles in the middle. Got to move it. Mr. Irwin, you have anything to say? Yeah. Somebody to make a motion. Let's vote. That's exactly what I'm saying. We're got to get the bubble out the middle here. So, I just need somebody, you know, the the gentleman has told us his experience publicly. Um, I know I'll make a I'll make a motion to
approve the uh the roofing license. Okay. Thank you. I have a motion. I have a second. Okay. Any discussion? No discussion. All in favor, raise your right hand. All oppose. Same sign. See none. Hear none. We got you through one. Thank you, sir. Let's move to number two since we're on a roll. All righty. Thank you so much. Uh Mr. Taylor is also applying for the reciprocity from Santa Rosa County uh for the residential contractor examination with license number RR282812
313. And he appears before you today with uh four years and nine months of experience working as residential foreman. Mr. Devonte M trying to cut you short, but I think we've already seen these before. So, we'll save you some time here and except go. I'm not trying to cut you short. Just you needed the specifics. I just want you got Thank you. Appreciate it. I'll make a motion to approve the recipator for the residential contractor's license. Second. All right. Do we have any questions on this one? I do. You said you took the general contractor exam before. Yes.
Tell me again how tall those books were. Oh my goodness. They were like $25,000 and then a week of studying. I took time off work. I got a hotel room. We left at 4 in the morning. 12 hours of testing. Another 12 hours of testing. Passed everything. Been building houses my whole life. Could not get a license. Been there, done that. So I did it backwards. This time I got everything approved before I come and met you guys. And now I'm taking the state test next week. Yeah. All right. He's not exaggerating either. I know it. Yeah. Oh, it's a a large financial cook. Yes,
it is. Yes, sir. And they do a financial background and all that stuff, too. I recommend using the bathroom before you sit down at the computer because otherwise they're going to watch you use the restroom. People are cheating. Yep. In regard to the um roofing license, uh we need to make sure staff is directed to get the right insurance. She's got it. Okay. Do we have a motion? So, I'm I got a motion on the floor and I have a second. Any other discussion? All in favor, raise your right hand. All oppose, same sign. See none, hear none. You
have earned the sweat today, Mr. Jason. I love you guys. If I could, in all fairness though, if I could just request like a fivem minute break, I will. I will. But in all fairness, I just want to make sure that Mr. Taylor knows this is not a personal vendetta by any means. We do feel like that we regardless of any other counties, we responsible and we really look at this experience thing harder than maybe our neighboring counties. Nobody's right or wrong. That's been our approach. So this is not Let's see if we can pick on this guy. Okay. Okay. We are
going to take a fivem minute break. I apologize to Mr. Swagert. If you're here, I apologize to you and to the others, but we have folks that need to take a moment, relax their fingers. That's very good.
We're both sinking. We'll be there. The last one. John Conor is out there crying in a corner trying to warn us. Mr. Thank you sir. Absolutely sir. Yes sir.
I was trying to hang out. Absolutely. So what will happen is as soon as the meeting is over you're going to get an email. So that'll that'll be the first item that we are the vouchers for all of our hopefully another hour give or take. playing basketball.
Absolutely. Well, if you need to get going, you can. I'll make In fact, I'll start working on on your vouchers now for you. Okay. While we're on this recess. Absolutely. Thank you, Mr. Congratulations. Thank you for
Whatever. You'll make it over there. Yeah. Busy was already behind. Sorry.
Yeah, he was saying he's got to try to make it back last week. beautiful.
Is this a long meeting? This is usually it's like the most stressful thing I've ever sat through in my life. Don't be worried. And then you just iced the kicker. You called timeout right when I was I'm so sorry. Oh my goodness. I was receiving messages of, "Hey, can we take a break?" And I'm like, and I know Miss Candace over here, she her little fingers, she's trying her hardest.
Are you also reciprocating as well? Oh, I know it right. So, I found and I'm going to edit it. I found on Amazon within our office because they have one that attaches to the screen and it folds out to two and um it just uses or not USB. HDMI, HDMI, whatever. And I'm like, do you know how
often I have to work from other locations besides my desk and like reviewing plans for management doing that one? Do you know how hard I have to switch back and forth between last night? I was trying to do certificates, you know, being audited of course. So, um I was on my phone on for and yeah and I was going back and forth back and forth back and forth.
These Robertson I'm just trying to do it. [Music] waiting when I could be working.
I'm cold in here, not your fingers. It's good. We can do this. We will begin back in just a very few minutes. Everybody can return their seats, please.
What's your name? We call our meeting back to order. Um I will mention that Mr. Tolbert um has distributed each of us
documentation that went through. Yes sir. So this what he distributed is a declaratory statement in regard to building contract. Right. Mhm. It's a deck statement from the Florida Building Code that as long as it's not structural windows and doors, a building contractor can replace those unlimited heights above the three floors, etc. A building contractor may
install nonstructural non-loadbearing windows and doors in buildings greater than three stories in height pursuant to section 489 1053C Florida statutes. these deck statements that come out um from the CIB board lets us know what's ex so you don't have to have general contractor's license just to replace those building contractor recommendation is usually good right
okay okay We have one board member that is on their way back, but if you want to, we'll go ahead and start with Absolutely, sir. Uh our next applicant to appear before you today is Mr. Adam Schwiger. Mr. Swagger, if you would please come to the podium and state your name and address for the record, sir. Adam Schwiger. Uh my address is 3136 Running Me Road, Pensacola, Florida 32504. Mr. Mr. Swagert appears before you requesting to reciprocate his roofing license from
Santa Rosa County to Escambia County. Mr. Swagert passed his examination for roofing unlimited 2023 uh addition 2023 September the 16th 2024 in business and law second edition August the 19th 2024. He has held lure in his cam or in Santa Rosa County for one year, 1 month and 23 days based upon his lensure date listed on the competency card. Staff has also verified financial and criminal history uh is clear for this applicant. He has submitted an experience
verification form with his experience verified by Mr. Zach Schwagert. License number CBC1259445. The qualifier has held their license since May 3rd, 2013, meeting the four-year requirement to qualify the applicant. The applicant worked for Mr. Zack Schwagert for seven years and 5 months. For the remainder of his experience, Mr. Mr. Swagger has provided a copy of his bachelor's of arts degree in psychology. This degree is presented complying with Florida statute 48911 subsection 3 stating has a combination of
not less than one year of experience as a foreman and not less than three years of any college credits for any accredited college level courses. Because this is a reciprocity, staff must defer to the board for approval or denial of Mr. Swagger's reciprocity. Mr. Swagger, would you like to tell the board something about yourself here? Sure. Okay. Um, well, I've been uh I've been doing roofs uh for combined eight years here recently. Seven of that was with Schwire Construction in the last year. I've had my uh business, Blackwater Roofing,
out of San Rosa County. Um, also I' I've got a family that owns several small businesses in Pensacola. My brother Greg owns the paint mark just up the road for 40 years and Zach's owned his uh construction business and my other nephew is a owner of Odd Colony which they're celebrating six years coming up here. But I say that and um we certainly not just myself as a family understand that there's a a commitment and priority to the people of Escambia County and I certainly understand that. Um, and uh, you know, I feel like I
have the experience and understanding to to do keep going and do a good job. Sounds good. So, you already for one year have been in business in Santa Rosa County. You got 12 months already of of that on your own experience. Exactly. Yes. Yes. Up and running. Gotcha. Gotcha. Gotcha. Any questions from anyone on the board?
And And if you notice, he's counting his one year and then three years of the college credits to uh get the four years in actual roofing because he was involved in custom homes, roofing slash a bunch of other stuff before. So that's the four-year threshold being met by that. Any questions from the board? I will entertain a motion.
Guys are killing me today. Motion to approve. Second. Thank you. Any discussion? All in favor, raise your right hand. All oppose, same sign. Seeing none, hearing none, Mr. Swagger, you've been approved. Thank you, sir. Thank you, mayor. I do want to say I appreciate the board being considerate and taking your time. I don't when I say that, I'm I'd rather us be more deliberate than just throw it out and then reap the rewards of that. So,
all right. Thank you guys for your I did have one thing on that last one. Miss Mary, did you look at the insurance on that one? Is okay. So I I did and Frank Winston Crumb is fine. I should have should have known you would have said something if it wasn't right. Okay. Thank you guys. And I appreciate y'all doing the deeper dives. I think y'all can see where we're coming from of of knowing. So I appreciate y'all your presentations. Thank you. Appreciate you all so much. We will move now into the next. Actually, I have one more. I'm sorry. I apologize.
I didn't flip it over before you guys leave. Yes, sir. They're good to leave. Okay. I was Thank you. Thank you. Thank y'all. So, our next is Mr. Freeman. Yes, sir. Mr. Chairman, that's correct. It's James B. Freeman application for reinstatement of permitting privileges. Um, and so what you see on your screen right now is our application for reinstatement. Um,
it's interesting because we've never had uh a request for reinstatement of permitting privileges. So, this is the first time that we are seeing this situation come before our board. Uh it did come before our board at last month's meeting, right? Um and it was continued due to uh there being a circuit case, an appeal to the circuit court being out there. Uh we received notification that uh there was a dismissal that has been uploaded um to the agenda. um to give you
some background information because I mean this this the result of this case or the reason for this request was from a hearing that took place over the course of a couple years, right? Um we did this board issued a final order and in that final order uh there were fines assessed and as well as restitution. Um draw your attention to uh that final order on your screen. Um
fines total $2,500 and then restitution was $123,594.39. At that time it was decided that there would be a payment plan. This board allowed for a payment plan and that was also detailed in that final order. Attached to the agenda is also the excerpt of the minutes from that hearing that day. Um and then it was brought to our attention that no payments have been made uh in regard to that final order and uh so that this came back before
the board. There was a couple of continuences um and then the result of that hearing um was that Mr. for Freeman's permitting privileges uh would be um revoked and because he had not paid uh on that in accordance with that payment plan. Um Mr. Mr. Freeman did reach out uh prior to last month's hearing um and provided information that in May of this year,
his insurance did um make payment and a release was signed. Um and so he provided that to this board in an effort to have his permitting privileges reinstated. Again, to reiterate, last month's meeting, we we were informed that a an appeal was still outstanding and today we have attached to the agenda that that has been dismissed. It is up to the board's discretion on how they want to handle this. Again, this is the first time this board
has seen this situation where um a person had been disciplined and they are now coming back um to have their license or their privileges reinstated. I know that Mr. Freeman is in the audience and and Mr. and Miss Stexton uh are here as well. So, it's up to you how you proceed. Okay. So, before us is the application for the reinstatement of permitting privileges. Those were removed
because there was no attempt to be made. And I I want you to follow with you guys. Follow make sure I'm on the right track with this. Miss Jennifer and Miss Christie. Uh the privileges were removed because there was no attempt to make any payment for months. I forget like five or six months maybe. That is correct. Attached to the agenda is the transcript from the hearing where the permitting privileges were right taken away. Uh within that hearing, uh it was discussed about
um an insurance claim. Um and that was what Mr. Freeman um was presenting um as support for this request was that the insurance had um issued monies to to the complainant. That's right. Um but yes, at that time um during that hearing it was noted that there had been no effort to make payment and that the ability to make payment at that time did exist because of permitting
documentation etc. So that's what brought us here. That is correct. Is the fact that we uh decided that restitution would be paid so much a month. nothing was paid for months and months. I want to say five or six months when it came back to us. And so then we decided to suspend the uh permitting privileges last month. There was a case brought uh this was asked for last month, but he
still they had a case against the county uh to uh overturn and that has been dismissed now. So now that's gone. We are able to hear this today. Last month we could not hear this because there was an open case. Am I correct Miss Christie? Because of the open case last month we were not able to hear this. Yes sir. because the appeal being open the appeal so it was closed on September 11th of this year so that it's closed now we can hear this and when we met I want to say it was about
a year ago and for five months however long it was 6 months he had not there there had been no payments made payments still were not made it was just now u a settlement from an insurance that was given. So, I would like to do this. I'd like to at least offer the opportunity for Mr. Freeman to speak to us if he chose to and for the Sexton because they were involved in this
case if they chose to. Uh it's not mandatory. Uh if you do, you have to be sworn in. Obviously, it's not mandatory, but um I say you have to be sworn in. This is Mr. Christie. Would they need to be sworn in even though we're just doing the application for reinstatement? I don't guess they would have to be, would they? No, sir. No. I'm sorry. You don't have to be sworn in. Make sure I get my stealth right here. But if you would like to speak to us,
though, I definitely would want to give y'all the opportunity. in all fairness to everybody here. So, Mr. Freeman, first if you would like to to uh say anything to the board just on the Oh, James B. Freeman, 4201 Oakland Road. uh disowned a deal where the payments wasn't uh wasn't made because the insurance had uh reached out to me and told us not to do nothing
with it until they took care of what they were supposed to do. So that's the reason the payments never was made. So and uh so they reached out to me and told me that and then uh then they paid way over what was on there too. So but anyway that's all I got to say. I mean, I would like to have my license back, but uh if could Okay. Appreciate y'all. Thank you. Thank you, sir.
And the sections if they would like to They had a paper earlier that you guys should have uh received uh during public forum and then we decided to wait till now. We didn't know we'd be waiting this long. Apologies to you guys. God bless y'all. That was a long time. Um Chloe, Chloe and Nick Ston, 101 South F Street, Pensacola, Florida, 32502. Um I provided you with that sheet just because that's what I was going to read today and it has all of the money
breakdowns in case that's helpful. And I have the receipts with me and all of that as well. I'll try to talk slow. So restitution and insurance are two separate sums for two separate portions of our loss. Today, our loss is over $400,000. Freeman's insurance only covered the damage to our property beneath the two metal roofs, our original roof and Freeman's re-roof, the the second layer. They the insurance does not cover any workmanship errors or the installation. Freeman
was responsible for fixing what he installed. Restitution's purpose is defined as compensation for direct financial losses and to hold offenders accountable for their actions and to deter them from committing future crimes. And fortunately for us, even if the restitution is ever paid, we will not be made whole to the amount of the money that we are out today. We're here to inform the board that the restitution ordered in 2024 and April has never been paid, not even a dollar. Um, in June of 2023, just as a reminder, we paid Freeman for $89,000 for a code compliant roof that
should have lasted us 20 years. Due to Freeman's incompetence, here we are two years later, more than two years. Our out-of pocket costs are over 400 grand. The breakdown's right there. We paid 286, a little more than that, for a new roof. We did have Arcadia, um, my attorney, Jeff McCarthy's engineering, and then the re- roof. So, that's our total. During the April 3rd hearing, I went back and watched it this morning just because I wanted to refresh my memory. Council had asked the board to determine our financial loss at that time and the board set the following amounts
as the absolutes. So, the total for restitution is made up of the refund of the contract, which he still has. Um, us paying Jeff McCarthy for the engineering and then the Arcadia defect report. You didn't include the attorney's fees. Totally understand that. Um you then added the 18,800 um which was quoted from Freeman for the removal of the existing roof. This brings the total financial loss to that restitution amount, the 123,000 and some change and then the opportunity for us to return and ask for more. Um several members of the board during the deliberation of
how to come up with the restitution amount stated that we could always come back and ask for more at the time of the new roof, you know, once we took the layers off and could see the damage and and come back. Um thankfully, praise God, insurance has covered those items um that were not visible at that time. So we've never come back to ask for more because it's not necessary. However, granting this contractor his permitting privileges back while he has failed to pay what is owed would deny his accountability and it would disrespect this board in Escambia County and our and the citizens. Us contractors should never be allowed to keep a customer's money without fulfilling the
contract's obligations. This is a scam. We respectfully ask that the board enforce the original order until restitution is paid. I would also request that you suspend his state licensing per permitting in this county. Um the state of Florida did respond um and ordered in a judge that com you know quote compliance will be monitored and enforced by the Escambia County Competency Board in the CIB response. I don't know if you guys have a copy of that, but uh Melissa Reber
had provided it to me previously. He should not be allowed to work under other roofing companies, just continuing on like nothing happened um and avoid the discipline ordered by this court. That is what has happened. This is a loophole that puts the citizens of our county at risk. Um, on the first sheet of the response from the state, there is a description, sorry, there is a description of um the ability to claim funds through the recovery fund. Um, I did go down that road and we're not eligible for it because of the type of infractions and and code compliance
issues. So, I really have exhausted all avenues of trying to obtain this money back. U Melissa Reber told me that he would be here today. So, I just felt like it was our due diligence to come back and report what was happened. Our roof is replaced. We have a insurable code compliant roof. Thank god nearly three years later finally. What a a relief that is. Um but I think it's I think I I just never want this to happen to anyone else and we are out so much money. That's really it. Thank you. Thank y'all. And I think we mentioned this before, but perhaps bears repeating again is that
there's financial losses that we cannot reach over that happened to your business that it's not in our perimeter to be able to uh order restitution for. Right. Hopefully the insurance company helped enough that you were able to Yeah, they did. They gave us a good sum. It was over $260,000. I can give you the exact sum. Um, I do have the breakdown from the the um what's it called? Not the engineer, the uh what is this? Engel Martin. Basically the um gosh, the word escapes me. Yeah,
the the person that comes in and and uh Oh, the insurance adjuster. Yeah, the adjuster. Excuse me. Sorry. Um and so and basically, I mean, just like this whole process, Freeman wasn't involved in the insurance. I had to track them down, call them every single day for the like the insurance customer to ever call. I'm the only person to ever do that and successfully make an insurance claim without the help of the person that should have done it. Um the main thing is though, we paid him the $89,000. We didn't get a roof. We didn't get anything from him and he still has our
$89,000. How is the contractor allowed to keep your money and give you no product? I don't That's where we're at. the restitution should still be owed to us due to the fact that we paid him money and we never got anything back. We didn't get a dollar back. Yeah. So, he still has our $89,000 or has used it by now. So, you're you're according to your notes here, the new roof cost $286984.49. Yes. And you received 260 something back. Correct. So, really you didn't get enough
insurance money to pay for the new roof. Is that what we're hearing today? Correct. Yeah. insurance explained to me over and over and over again that workmanship error, they don't cover that. She's like, "We would go bankrupt as an insurance company covering people just ruining people's roofs. We can't pay for that." Damages. Yeah. Property damage. So, the breakdown that this shows is for everything below the roof layers. It had nothing to do with the our original roof or his layer and and nor the fees that you guys found he should be responsible for. 18,000 to take the metal roof off on the insurance. Everything was supposed to be handled
by the roofer. I'm out over $140,000 still. So, the restitution doesn't quite touch that yet. Um, if we ever got it, it would be a blessing and I think justice, but we're still short. This, I think, goes back to where we have to be careful where our reach is. Miss Christie can help me here because we have to be careful where our reach is in that the amount they paid originally
and the work that was done originally. We can only cover that amount and part but we can't go beyond that. There's two. This new one cost 2.86. The original was 89. That'sund what 90 something,000 difference between the two. But you know that gap of closing the two, I don't know that we have the
ability to reach into that. We just have the ability to talk about the original. Is that correct? that I was just asking Jennifer if you had reserved on them bringing back additional information. We did and um well we did but I think that was before litigation started. Mhm. So when we were going through the process and when we awarded the uh the the damages and I may correct me if I'm wrong we at that time said that if there's additional damages
that would that are occurred bring it back to us. will leave it open. But once litigation started, uh I think it took a different course because insurance got involved and I'm not an insurance expert and maybe we can get some information. So how does insurance work? Does it cover or does it capture and did it capture everything or is it just for the roof damage itself? And going back to the original 89,000 that was paid, uh I agree with you emotionally, I'm with you, right? Uh but in
in theory uh there was a roof put on there whether it was faulty or non-faulty. So I imagine expenses from that 89,000 did go towards some portion of the work that was done. I would appreciate even 20 bucks from the guy but I've gotten nothing. I want to kind of lay that out there though that Mr. Freeman we're not going to ask for any more recipes. We don't plan on doing this any longer. We just want to get I never want to come back here. I love you guys but come see us have coffee. But so there's two prone questions. So one is if you can explain that so we get a better
understanding. Right. So the the first piece that we need to see and I don't know if it can be added to evidence at this point or if we have to what the process is but we would really need to look at what the adjuster put into the claim and what was there specifically so we can see the items very specifically that the insurance paid. I have a question though. How did you file the claim? Because technically the the way commercial insurance works is um a commercial policy would
have to go through the agent and the agent and has to file the claim directly with the carrier. It's that's typically the steps that happen. He wouldn't respond to anything. I I don't know, you know, I can only speak from my experience on my side. I'm not really sure what happened on his side and what the insurance person was telling me. and I had a lot of different people involved in it and they kept changing the person that I the representative. Um, but basically I just went down to the city and got the insurance that was on the permit and called them and made them aware of what was happening. Um, again just cuz I don't think this should have to happen to anyone else. Um,
and I thought the insurance should know. Um, and then they basic from what I was told they took steps internally because I would not leave them alone to do a claim. I don't know if they called him and somehow got him involved or not. I was told repeatedly throughout the whole process. Um, it took like two extra months because they just couldn't verify certain things from him. And I don't know if you recall the discussions about the subcontractor that threw a big wrench in things cuz the insurance was like, whoa, who's responsible for this? Um, is it Flores or is it you? So, that was a runaround big delay there. Um, and they just couldn't get any information
from him. So, that's all I know. Okay. So, one, my first question is, are they able to give us a copy of what the adjusters notes were and what they were actually paid out for very specifically? And then two, I mean, no, they typically are not going to cover faulty workmanship um unless the policy was written to do that. Yes, she did say like there are different types
of policies and you know walked me through that sort of thing and I had asked her you know a few times about well what what about restitution? Do you need to see that paperwork? And she was like no that's totally separate how the board came up with that amount doesn't include us. And then you know as you dig deeper into it lists everything but what's included in restitution. So, it's very to me it's very clear that we have a loss and you guys came up with restitution and the insurance came up with their part that they're liable for and we're still a little short, but I do feel like in my heart I can sleep good at night because I'm not asking for something that's not due to me, right? The the carrier is not going to pay for the carrier is not going to
pay a bunch of extra fees and things like that. Anything past took care of the damages like the spray foam that was wet that had spray foam was soaked. Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. Our court reporter can only take down one person at a time. So, you have to let one person speak and then the other person speak. Thank you. Um, we did have a significant wet spray foam throughout the roof. Um, the Engle Martin breakdown. I'm happy to email it to you or just give you this copy even um torn out. Yes, it was removed and we had to replace some that was even separate from the
totals that I gave you. So, there is more fees that are stacked, but I just ran out of time. I had to get my child childc care this morning to be able to be here. Um the Engle Martin breakdown does show roof one and roof two. It's talking about the original building structure and then the roof that was added in the 70s or 80s. That that portion of the roof particularly was it's a more flat style and it was the the wood had to be completely replaced as well. So there was significant it's been wet for two years there. I don't know how else to say that. There's a significant u amount of issues once we ripped the metal off. It's also important to note here
that the sections are not asking for additional uh restitution money. Their words are for us to take this into account in granting the permanent privileges. That's correct. Correct. Gota. So, I want to make sure we get the focus of where we're going with everything. I think also with that what she just gave are we also looking at what exactly did insurance pay for is insurance
versus original what we found originally does that cross there's no overlap or did did insurance take care of the roof and the functionality but they're also owed the restitution from the original order but u again twofold they're not been asking for that. No, I know. But I'm just seeing from um a standpoint as the board, we made we made an order, right? We set a motion. Was that followed
by interpretation? I mean, the insurance company made a payment to them that exceeded what we gave for restitution. Did it cover the actual new roof? No. Did it cover all their expenses? No. But it covered more than what we uh came up with. I'm just wondering technically wise. I know it's a really Yeah, because I know it's splitting hairs, but it's just me trying to wrap my brain around, okay, did insurance cover because as I said, they it didn't cover the poor workmanship and the lack
thereof. All it did was cover the actual typically an owner is never made completely whole. from my experience things and the reason why I'm sorry so I don't mean to be hard on it and just trying to figure it out but I know that you know this will set a precedent. We've never had anything like this before. So I just want to make sure that what's done is done correctly and done the right way because we're setting a tone from here out. Right. So, we're getting copies of that right now for the board of the insurance adjuster and that'll give you the breakout of what insurance
um how insurance evaluated this and what their payment went towards. I would love opinion too on that. And of course there's the other piece that I would also I just want the board to know that the roof Freeman bid on was a reed roof going over the existing thing and the owner still knew it was he just put the fasteners in the wrong place. Uh and he did have a few leaks but so now they went to extreme and did it the way it probably should have been in the first place. port, you know,
everything two code, two high wind codes. I'm sure everything is engineered and so it's a whole different So, I feel like I know they don't, but I feel like Jimmy has stepped up and done exactly what he, you know, I mean, what what do you put him out of business? That's No, no, no. You guys asked him to get engineering to verify all of that and he didn't. That's why we did. You guys requested it. There's so many hearings of y'all asking him to do things and he just refused to do it. I I do before we I do need to make this point, Mr. Bachelor's, a very good point. The original
89,000 price difference between 286 is because you're talking about two different type roofs. Absolutely. And I want to say to that, Mr. To what you said, absolutely. And I'm not trying to speak on anybody. It could be, you know, represent like formula A to Formula B. It could have a a no face person, no name. All I'm saying is I just want to make sure that we're correct in the order that we've pushed through that we moved on and it's just it's right. It's done correctly because as
I said, this is set in a precedent. So it doesn't have to do with whomever's here in front of us or any of that. It's just the the black and white of the letter. So if we could again focus on the uh request, the request is to reissue the license. Uh so we appreciate well let's let's get our wording right because his license was never anything done with correct reissue permitting peritting correct permitting uh uh privileges privileges. I have to remind you to y'all to be careful not to talk
over each other. Correct. You you were stressing me which is stressing the court. Understood. Uh so uh okay. Okay. So, we appreciate the information, but uh no matter how much we uh listen to or hear about the amount of dollars that didn't cover or did cover or re-roof or roof, that's all behind us. So, right now, we're just talking about reinstating the permitting privileges uh for Freeman roofing. So, I think we need to kind of discuss that and see where the board is at that because that's what we got to vote on today. And so I mean if we can hear some more uh comments
whether for or against and how the feelings are on the thought method is then we can move forward. I think uh do we need anything more from sex? Uh do you have anything else you want to tell us before we No, we just want to make sure everybody's decision is based off that like even though we got insurance we're not you know I remember uh Miss Mary saying that we need to be made whole by Mr. Freeman, we have not been made whole. But the main thing I'm wondering if we aren't given a service, why is he allowed to
keep our 90 $89,000? That's where I'm wondering like he just gets if we walk away from this, he just keeps our money and we're still out to build to to our roof. I just want to to it would be like double double paying you for it because technically the insurance company did pay you for for damages for damages, but they did not pay us for the roofs. Okay. Well, let me Yes. We can get we can confirm that. Yes. But I'm just saying very thorough, believe me. All right. Thank you. We just want to make sure that everything's made clear before we give his
permitting privileges back. I mean, he's obviously working under other companies, so that's not a rush right now. He's still working right now. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you guys. So, we're going back to reinstatement. The application is for the reinstatement of permitting privileges. The amount for the over roof, re- roof, just over roof was the 89. What the sections have
today is a BMW compared to a Yugo. It's a total different animal. So, it's really hard for us to look at the dollar amounts, which is really not we're even being asked for. What we're need to look at is reinstatement of permit privileges based on this case being closed, this case being finished, and do we move forward from that? That's that's really what we're looking
at is whether or not they've been made whole. It it's going to be a debate all the way through, but do we go forward with this? Well, my question, so I'm assuming the fines have been paid, right, to the county? Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Fines have been paid. We have u checks in here. So, his f he's paid the fines. Um the amount that we ordered for restitution has been superseded through the insurance, but it was, you know, covering more than just the roof. The damages
that was incured during that period of time as well. We are um still waiting on those copies to come back so that you can confirm that. Okay. Any other you want to say anything? Jennifer to refresh my memory. Could you pull up what the original board action was? So we could just look and see when not speaking on anything that has to do with mon.
So, this is the original final order and this is what was ordered by the board. Um, he was found in violation of of two counts. Well, and as you recall, there were two cases that were consolidated, mind you. So, we have both of those in this final order. Um, he was found in violation in that first case. Um, and he was found in violation in the second case. a third item he was not found in violation of within the
um and then this third item on the second case and I know it gets confusing because we consolidated these he was found in violation there uh all of that was combined to result in those fines and and like we said before the fines have been paid and then you also ordered restitution and there and uh below that is the payment plan that was ordered by the board. Um I had the minutes up a moment ago and there was a delay in the payment plan because as you recall he appealed this to the
BCC. So that put a hold on everything. Um once that appeal was finished then you had to give um conf get confirmation that that first payment after the appeal was not paid and then we had to queue it up for hearings. So that was that span of time uh where where no payment was made. Um and that resulted in that hearing where there was a suspension of permitting privileges
and we I'd like to make a motion to reinstate permitting options. We just have a motion. Do I have a second? I just want to remind you there's an outstanding document that you haven't seen. I think the cop gear broke. I don't know where it is. I'm going to we sent somebody to go find out what happened and it looks like I'm gonna follow up and go see what happened. We put the motion on hold just till we get it look at this document. Mr. Ber. Okay. We're just going to put that on hold
so we can They all left me. I know. You're by yourself. If we can continue the discussion. So, we also have to look at I absolutely get where the sections are coming from. We also have to look at the history of Freeman Roofing in Escambia County and throughout those many years of service. Uh how many times has Mr. Freeman been in front of us? If I'm not mistaken, I think this was the first time. There were there were other items. um that came before the board, but they they were dismissed to the to the extent that where we are today. Uh so we have
to keep that into consideration because we do need good roofing companies in Escambia County. uh we do need to be sure that when uh commitments have been made and again on an emotional uh amount maybe it wasn't uh for the parties like it should have been but on the business aspect of it if it's insurance kicking in and lawyers are involved and uh you know judgments have been put in place and you know fines have been paid uh we have to look at that factor on it also. So, let's
keep that in mind while we're voting for this. And it's just not, hey, it's setting an example. I love setting examples when we know people don't have history and they come in our county. Uh, and they take advantage of our citizens and uh, you know, uh, they're ready to walk away because they've transported from another city or another state and, you know, they're just here for temporary. But we do have a long-standing Escambia County citizen here with good business practices in the past and I'm sure in the future also. So, let's keep that in mind. [Music] So, we've been handed the
gestures and on page three starts the actual roof. And to just go off what you said, I think that is completely valid. Absolutely. And then to go off the motion you had, I think um we had Mr. Gates come in here earlier and if you saw that there were steps taken to prevent recurrence, I think that that that definitely would be a be a way to go with conditions and limitations. Does anybody have any questions here with this?
Would you like to reintroduce your motion, Mr. Bachelor? Just to make sure for the record. I'd like to uh reinstate the permitting uh privileges for Freeman Roofing. Okay, I have a motion. Do I have a second? Second. I have a motion and a second. Any further discussion? Are we able to amend that to a certain number of permits within a certain duration of time just to kind of make sure things go along the way they should go along or we just
I mean I guess we can do anything. What would be the end result of that, I guess, is what I'm saying. You know, if you if you you let them if the concern is somebody's going to get ripped off, if you let one permit out, it could be one ripped off. If you're not concerned that that's going to happen again, then I guess it's kind of You know what I'm saying? That makes sense. Yeah. I mean, my concern is there. I I one thing this
has been such a drawn out thing I think that's kind of made everybody weary in it. Uh but it's been noted that there's not a history. This is the first disciplinary hearing that we've ever had. The kind of scary thing is um is just with like banks and the cost like they didn't have a history from my understanding and then it kind of came out and it was like bam. And I'm not making any sort of saying that relation or comparison contrast, but just there's no history here. Yeah.
Okay. Any other discussion? No other discussion. All in favor raise your right hand. One, two, three, four, five. All oppose, raise your right hand. Okay. Motion has been approved for reinstatement of permitting privileges. And I u want to make sure that the sections know though this board's been very mindful of y'all's position. And uh
say one more thing like our roof that Jimmy put on there, it looked fine. It was a Honda Civic and we were fine with it. It was a matter of the fact that it started leaking. The roof that Jimmy put on, the metal, I think, and the paint was good. It was better than what we have now. I like that roof. Everything was good about it. It's a matter that it leaked in that screw. So, I think I hope y'all aren't making a mistake, but we're all right with your decision. We both said whatever God wants to happen right now. And I know that we have two people. We have the insurance lady that was against that. And I think y'all should have rethought that because it's I
don't think that was the right thing to do. We Mr. Freeman has $90,000 of ours. He might have gone on vacation with it. Okay, maybe it cost him 30,000. He still has 60,000 of our money and y'all are allowing this man to leave with our money right now. I'm being robbed. I'm being robbed. I'm sorry. That's how I feel. And I appreciate your feelings, but Mr. Freeman did give you a roof. It just simply had warranty issues. No, no, it had code violations and it leaked. It had issues. But if y'all are all right with that, I'm all right with it. I appreciate it. Thank you. Actually,
please. Okay, we will move into the disciplinary hearing. Yes, sir, Mr. Chairman. This item is Christopher W. Brown doing business as Shooting Stars Construction LLC. State registered license number RG00001 9314.
Contractor competency board complaint number 25 0649 COOM. It's in regard to Jakima McCorvy, the homeowner complainant at 1819 North A Street, Pensacola, Florida 32501. This location is in the Pensacola city limits. Uh, Mr. Brown, are you present today? Just for the court reporter, Mr. Brown is not present. Uh, Miss McCorvy, are you present today?
And are you going to provide testimony for this hearing? I'm going to go ahead and have you sworn in. Uh, and at this time, I'm going to have Miss Reeber, our investigator, sworn in. Okay. Do you swear affirm the testimony about to be able to be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? to help you go. I swear, Miss Reber, um, was notice sent to the respondent, Mr. Brown, and how was that notice sent? Yes, notice was sent to Mr. Brown's attorney via email. And did
you receive confirmation that that notice was received? Yes, I did. Okay. So, just to let you know, proper notice was sent to the respondent. In our backup today for this hearing, we have the e executed notice of disciplinary hearing and administrative complaint, the proof of the email delivery to the attorney. um the original exhibits from from the hearing which were the complaint form, proofs of payment, um notice of probable cause, uh the notice of where the probable cause
hearing was sent, um proof of delivery for that probable cause hearing, um proof of we had a few proofs of payment. So, this was proof of payment to Mr. Likely. um permitting permitting for the accessory structure, uh the stop work order, the letter of authorization, and some photos. Uh staff would request at this time that all of that be moved into evidence for this hearing. So moved. Second. Second. All in favor raise right hand. All oppose. Same sign. Seeing none,
here none. Motion is approved. At this time, I'm going to bring up the administrative complaint. uh because thi this includes the decisions that the board made during the probable cause hearing. So that probable cause hearing was held on at our woo I just lost my train of thought. It was held on August 6th, 2025. I apologize for that. Um, and during that probable cause hearing, the board uh found there was cause to believe that the respondent violated code section 1837 C3,
code section 1837D10, and code section 1837 D15B. Um, code section 1837C3 uh states that a code violation results from knowingly combining with or conspiring with an uncertified or unregistered person by allowing one's certificate to be used by that person with the intent to evade the provisions of this article. Um 1837D10 is abandonment by failing to perform work on the
project for a period in excess of 90 days. Let me circle back the previous code section. Um the board cited that uh Mr. Brown violated that by obtaining a permit for a project that he had not contracted for, received no funds for, and per performed no work on. Okay. The second code section D10 board cited that uh respondent violated that by failing to perform work on the project for a period in excess of 90 days. And the third one code section 1837D15A late permits. The
contractor pulled the permit after the starting of the job but prior to the completion. and the board cited at that time um that the respondent failed to obtain the required permit prior to the commencing of work resulting in a stop work order being issued by the city of Pensacola. So those are the items that this board is is going to take into consideration today uh when making their decisions. Again, Miss McCorvy is present um and it's up to the board how they want to proceed.
Miss McCory, would you like to approach the stand and speak to the board? And while you're coming, I will tell you we do apologize for the length of time today. This has been way more than what we anticipated. Some of us had appointments and everything else. So, I apologize, but had a busy day. Grateful to be here and here heard. Yes, ma'am. Well, I think everything is pretty much described and put out in the original complaint. Um,
still haven't heard anything. I'm still looking at a shell of a house. Um, I don't know, you know, what we can do here, but these two are what I would call a cancer. Um, it just continues to keep growing. Um, so I was thinking about this guy that you just gave the permitting privileges back to. This is how they continue and just continue to keep going and going and finding
other people to assist them in whatever they have going. Um, I'm at a loss, a big loss. Um hopefully you guys will move forward and be able to at least get some type of rectification out of those. You know, I know you can't do anything about Mr. Likely, but um at least Mr. Brown because I guess he is the responsible party because he chose
to go and pull those permits and allow Mr. likely to go ahead with the work. Well, we uh appreciate you being here again and we'll may have questions for you if that's okay as we go through here just to to verify and we apologize for what's happened to you. You know, we'll try to rectify what we can here. Thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. McCory. And Mr. Brown
is not here and he's the only one that could speak for shooting stars. Correct. He is the qualifier of of shooting stars. However, this board has already revoked Mr. Brown's license from other cases that came before you. What are we eligible to do today? What's the board's prerogative, I guess? So, you you have your decision- making as to whether or not you're going
to find him in violation of these things and what disciplinary action you would take should you find him in violation. And have we taken disciplinary action on him before? And if we have, uh, what is that? Can you pull that up so we know? Redundant for us to do it again or I mean other than the fines, right? We've already removed his license. We've already removed. So all we can do is impose fines. No, you could do the same thing and just repeat it. Okay. In this case, you could have the same sentencing that that the license remains revoked. Okay. And that would um
that would mean that if if you don't do it in in this case as well, then if he paid the fines and he took care of the other case, then he could just come back. So he would this would require him to be heard in every case in which his license was remained invoked uh revoked. Can you pull up the violations so we can unless anybody has any discussions, we can go straight to motion.
I can see count two. I can't see count one. And I can't pull it up on my for some reason because it's split. Got you. It's kind of difficult because the page is split. Um, let me do it this way. So I would look for a motion on count one section 18-37C3 knowingly combined with or conspire with an uncertain certified or unregistered person by allowing one certific certificate to be used by that person with the intent to invade the provision
of this article. I'll make a motion to accept that to to find him as find him as in violation. Correct. I'll second that. And and excuse me, but for and what penalty it goes $100 to $5,000 fine on number 13. We'll do a $5,000 fine. Okay. And and bear in mind this also uh section C of our code includes any such other penalty as provided within the code section. So that could include additional penalties beyond the fine. If you would like,
I can scroll down to the bottom and and show you those as well, please. or revoking the license is there. So, so here they are. Um um permanent re permanent revocation. Yes, it starts here. Uh license revocation and it continues down all the way down through the paragraph. Okay. So, we would need found in violation $5,000 fine and a permanent revocation of the license. Permanent re revocation. Okay. Do I have a second? Did I hear that? Yes, I second it. Any discussion
here? All in favor say I. All oppose. Same sign. See none. Hear none. Motion's approved to find in violation of number one with a $5,000 fine and permanent revocation of license. Count number two is 1837D10 abandonment and it has $500 to $2,000 fine with and I need a motion for that. I do. I'll make a motion to find him in violation of code section 18-37D10 with a $2,000 fine and
a permanent revocation of his license. I don't think it allows that on this one, but that 2005 2005. Okay. Do I have a second? Second. I have a motion and a second. All in favor, raise your right hand. All oppose, same sign. See none. None. Motion is approved. Account number three, 1837D15A late permits. Contractor pulls permit after start the job but prior to completion of the same job and does not miss any inspections and it is a $100 fine um allowed on this one. Make a motion uh in
violation of code section 1837D15 with a $100 fine. I have and I have a second. All in favor raise your right hand. All oppose, same sign. Seen and hun. Motion is approved. Do we need to do something to the CIB on this one? That is correct. That is our next step. I mean uh so you found um Mr. Brown in violation of these items and you've done your disciplinary action. The next part would be um if Miss McCorvy were to request restitution. Um, Miss McCorvy, if you'd like to come up to the
podium and and address that. I know that you may not be prepared with numbers today. Um, but the board can make a decision on that. We don't have all the council chase. What will entail the rest what would be eligible for? Restitution is what you've paid to be done versus what you've received and it appears you have not received what you've paid for. So what we would need from you is
the amounts that you have paid original contract. We need a copy of your contract which I think we we already have that and then the amounts that you have paid so far and then documentation which I think we got pictures of what's actually been done so that we can look at it and see that you know just pulling numbers you know you give somebody X dollars but only this much has been done so we can see the restitution for that plus we we we can't award damages like the other can be done,
you know, for out of pocket expense type things. We can only order restitution for what was done on site. Um, everything I've submitted all of the cashier checks that were submitted. I gave Mr. Likely a $50,000 down payment prior to the start of the project. We paid for our trustes to the trust company, which was another 14,000. He's not back there. Um paid the plumber directly which was
excess of $30,000 and Mr. Likely got another $25,000 cashier check which was when the work stalled. Am I safe in saying Miss Reber can help her organize that and present back to us? Yes, I can do that. and then we can order restitution based on those documents. Okay? We want to work with you and help you here to what we can what we're what we're able to do. Keeping me from
approaching him personally. So, this is just we don't want to visit you down at the uh fight. We need we need a motion to continue the restitution portion of that hearing to our next meeting. Okay. I'll make a motion to continue the restitution portion uh till our next meeting. Have a second. Second. We have four seconds. We have a motion and a second. Any discussion? All in favor? Mr. Gary's already all oppose. Same sign. Motion's approved. So that next month you can come back for the
restitution. Now looking to the CILB. That's our next item is a recommendation to the CILB. I did uh Melissa pulled up on uh her iPad um of how his state registered license stands with the state and it is current active. So that um the historical cases that came before the board, they have not finished those yet. Um and so your recommendation to the CIB could be for
anything like it says here. It it can include a recommendation for no further action of fine, suspension, revocation, or restrictions on the registration. So, I'll entertain a motion to u make a recommendation to the CILB for the permanent revocation, which is what we've done here locally from the state. Do I have a I'll make a motion for permanent revocation of to the CLB recommendation. Second. Second. I have a motion and a second. All in favor,
raise your right hand. I'll oppose same signs. See none hear none. Motion is approved. Do you need an amount of time? Because I know it says I was going to circle back to that. Okay. Okay. So, there are um some fines that that have been assessed by this board. Um I will need a time frame in which those have to be paid and what should happen should those fines not be paid. Keep in mind you've already done the permanent revocation. But still we have to document. Yes sir. So I have a time frame of how how many days months to pay the fines? 90 days. Make a motion
to pay the fines in 90 days. And if not paid in 90 days, no revocation permanent. It's already there. Okay, that's okay. Second. Second. All right. All in favor raise your right hand. All oppose. Same sign. motion is approved for 90 days for payment with permanent rev revocation if not paid. Now that time frame begins on when the chairman actually signs this final order. This final order is being held though until we can make a determination on the restitution. So
this final order will not go out until after we have that next month hearing. Understood. Okay. Is there no way to speed that up to get that done right now? Do we have them or No, because she has the checks. We have them in the backup. Do we just do a timing? If you wanted to um hold this for a few minutes and let Miss McCorvy and Miss Reber step to the back and they can go over the
numbers really quickly. We could go on to item 11 and then come back. Are you are you prepared right now to provide the restitution? You don't want to go back and re-evaluate and look because you'll have one opportunity to do this and I want to make sure your damages are right. Uh again, if you feel comfortable, then yes, we don't mind waiting for a few minutes for you to go through it. We just want to make sure you haven't missed anything or if you have anybody giving you like a you know consultation or something to look at the project and say hey what are my damages here that
have really outside of the money that you've paid right well there is an opportunity to get I mean you have to bring that to us what damages have you occurred right and and right now you've probably presented the checks that you've provided to him all I have yes definitely yeah but if there is other and if you if you feel comfortable then you can present it today if you feel like, "Hey, let me kind of look at everything and make sure I haven't missed anything cuz I'd hate for you to miss something." Well, I haven't missed any money I paid out. Haven't missed that. Yeah. Whatever you feel comfortable. Um if like I said, if they're wait Okay, we'll wait. Okay,
sounds good. Listen to the um Don't want to rush this part. Yeah. Make sure we check all the Yes, ma'am. That's right. No rush. I mean, we've been waiting two years. Well, a little little while longer won't hurt. And that was nice that you said 90 days. 90 days was the amount of time that he said that it was going to take him through through the process. Well, hopefully we'll have you Yeah. in a good place very soon. That is that is it for the disciplinary hearing. Um and we have continued
the sunshine law presentation. Um so the only other item left before this board today is the election of chairman and vice chairman. Um and and then the questions amending the questions. Oh yes. Um somewhere I don't know where it falls but somewhere in there. We it's not actually an agenda item. you you brought it up earlier for basically this board to discuss after the hearing was done of maybe uh altering uh some of those questions. Um, what I can do, Miss Mary,
is I can send those questions out to all the board members, get just like I did with the experience affidavit, get feedback from everybody and then send out a proposed this is what we want to add to that application and then just get confirmation that everybody's okay with that. Does that sound good? Yep. Yep, that'll work. Can do that. Um, election of chairman and vice chairman. Motion to keep Alton Listister chairman and Nash Patel vice chairman.
Second. [Laughter] Everyone just doesn't want to be it. Everybody raise your hand. I have to chair that part. Motion has been made for Mr. Irwin, I mean, do I have a say? And I have a second. Any discussion? All in favor, raise your right hand. All oppose,
same sign. Motion has been approved. We appreciate this board and thank you. Yeah. Thank you all sincerely. Everything that you guys did. I know today we drug a long time. We did. We did. But I'd rather it be thorough than us rubber stamping and having problems here. So, you know, when we when we're asked for a motion and we don't provide that motion, I don't want anybody on this board to think that everybody's waiting. I think that pause makes it more authentic that we're actually thinking through this rather than just jumping in and making that motion. So, sometimes
we're I'm probably wondering the same thing you guys, but who's going to make the motion? But that means we're all in doubt. So, we haven't made that motion. Uh but sometimes we have to make these strong decisions and we have to you know let our gut kind of say if everything's presented to us we have to make that move and go forward with it. And I appreciate that you know we have differences opinion and we don't all vote every time you know I think that again just shows that we have a diverse board and we're all independent thinkers and I appreciate that. Thank you. It's a positive
journ. Okay. Is there any other business? Meeting is adjourned. Thank you guys for your patience today. Smoke is Hey, y'all do good though. Thank you, Mr. Bachelor. How are you doing? Well, good to see you. Another year. I appreciate you. Thank you. Well, you too, man. And I appreciate your input. Good solid thinking. It was a decision so far.