##VIDEO ID:gR06oJY824U## that pretty second was what she actually rep I think that clock's a little slow that's correct okay Christie attempted to fix it  at our at our last meeting she's been evicted just kidding no I didn't hear properly yeah um  and I just don't think that clock has ever been accurate oh she fixed it yeah yeah tried to tried to okay well we have our Quorum so we're we're ready whenever you are sir okay this meeting is called to order of the scammy County compy Board January 8th 2025 Happy  New Year to everybody 9:00 in the morning Madam Secretary do we have a quorum this morning yes  sir Mr chairman with eight members present we do good deal and do we have proof of publication for  this meeting yes sir Mr chairman it was published on January 2nd 2025 in the Pensacola News Journal  thank you do have a motion to accept approval of minutes from the last meeting in December still  moved do I have a second second all in favor raise your right hand all oppose same sign see  none hear none motion is approved our public for session do we have anybody signed up for I didn't  receive any speaker request forms um so unless you want to just pull the audience and make sure  if anybody is here today would like to speak in the public form speak now forever hold your peace okay I don't see anybody hi okay uh your secretary report Madam Secretary uh Happy new year thank  you and I have nothing else for the board at this time okay contractor applications  uh good morning board members our first applicant today is Mr Brian Ward Mr  Ward if you will please come to the podium state your name and address please for the record Brian Ward 7941 Susan Elane Drive Milton Florida 32570 board members Mr Ward  appears before you today requesting to qualify an additional entity uh currently his business is EV  Quality Construction LLC and he desires to qualify MV all type Construction LLC thank you yes sir Mr Ward you want anything to tell us uh what would you like to know open  book well um I'll just open some discussion I remember your name in the face and the 20  not guys not 20 but those guys you brought in here to get license at time and uh so so  you're opening up a new company is that what you're doing that well no not technically I'm  qualifying an additional entity uh so I have Quality Roofing which is separate from all  of this qualified under our State Certified license um I've got EB quality uh I see an  opportunity within uh the industry particularly subcontracting space inside of our industry um  for a lot of improvement uh increased compliance and I just see an opportunity there so uh I um  uh qualified one entity I want to qualify an additional entity um and uh sort of uh  bring them under the umbrella of my primary company uh Quality Roofing uh to subcontract  for us inside of that space I think it's an opportunity for them to to um to learn and  grow uh under an organization that's trying to do things the right way um and um you know if  uh in time uh they've uh done well and um maybe they have an opportunity to test for themselves  um but in the meantime uh gives me an opportunity to give them direct oversight and making sure  they're compliant and doing things the right way uh until such time they decide to test for themselves is there a reason why you don't just keep them under your current company if  the subcontractors um well there's a a Litany of reasons uh really but these are Standalone  companies you know like they're trying to uh to do their own thing build their own organization and  they just need some guidance is really what they need um and I think it starts with compliance and  Licensing right so they're not really interested in becoming employees uh they they already have  their their own business right but uh they're they're non-compliant as it is or as it currently  stands with regard to licensing so this checks that box for them but also again brings them  under the umbrella of somebody who's trying to do things the right way helping them get compliant  uh so that they can attempt to grow organization and and you live out the American dream so trying  to trying to help them do that and and go about it the right way so you also taking the financial  responsibility of that company I am okay just like when we open multiple companies it's concerning  to me I'm the board that you know a lot of times when we have a u contract or a roof for opening a  multiple companies you know it's about one company is about default so they've got another company  and another company ready how can you assure us that that's not the case here um well any way  you'd like me to assure you of that um I said it's it's really about uh those guys I I'm not I'm not  trying to to uh play the uh U the the hidden the hidden ball game or anything like that um I'm not  sure what I could tell you to to to affirm that outside of my my testimony that's not the case  um how many current uh permits are issued to your companies right now do we know great question um  it's about 2,000 a year um probably 1,200 or so in County like how many open permits do you have  currently right now and work job that you're doing between your companies maybe 20 am I asking the  right question so I I think what you're asking is how many open permits does Mr Ward have under all  licenses currently I could pull that up for you if you'd like um it's at the discretion  of the board if you would I'd like to look at it Jen while you while you're doing that I guess my  concern is historically when this situation happens there's not enough um handholding  to that subcontractor and then therefore the subcontractor gets in trouble and then the person  that's the ultimate license holder is standing here again when it comes to issues and then it's  not well it's not my fault the subcontractor did the work yeah so what's what's great about  this Arrangement is that um they're only going to be performing subcontracting work for me in  my other in my primary organization Quality Roofing so uh as the license holder I'm the  only one that can sign off on any permits so um you know they would not be able to to permit  anything outside of what I agreed to permit for them um or on behalf of that organization um  um so I feel like I have direct control and oversight over everything that they're doing and  it's it's primarily Under the Umbrella of Quality Roofing inside that organization so obviously  we have direct oversight U and you know able to make sure that they're not doing anything sideway  ultimately it's um it's subcontracting for Quality so quality is of course going to stay on top of it  so who holds the insurance for the work that they do that's the The Entity so each of the entities  holds the insurance and it's it equal to or greater than the equivalent of qualities that's correct they have their own workers comp insurance as well correct can I ask you  this question are you through as me I'm sorry um are you listed as part of the  owner of MV now no and uh according to the statutes not required to be listed as part  owner that's one Avenue uh is be listed as a a a minority owner minimum 20% share uh the um there's actually three ways there's uh ownership there's W2 employee status uh or uh a  joint venture agreement that um basically outlines how the supervision uh is going to be uh executed  um so I can do either of those things currently I'm W2 inside of each of those organizations so  I checked the box there but in addition to that a joint venture agreement outlining how that  supervision is going to be executed could also be done so I have a question for you  because you keep talking about Quality Roofing being the overreaching umbrella so why wouldn't  not not not really um it's just that they're doing sub these two entities are going to be  doing subcontracting work for Quality Roofing correct I understand that and that's what you  provided today so why would you not qualify these additional entities with your State Certified like  since the Quality Roofing is the umbrella company well it's it's it's not uh technically an umbrella  company um and I think it's probably a good idea to keep those things separate um I think it makes  sense to keep those two things separate from one another so I mean I'm just trying to make  sure it's it's clear because I don't want you to step off into anything that could be misconstrued  in any way um so Quality Roofing would be writing a contract right with these companies  and then you would be subing it from your State Certified company correct to your local liced  company you qualify correct flag go ahead um I just want to draw your attention to to the  board under Quality Roofing you might have maybe like 60 65 open permits um under under his newer  company he has not obtained any permits with his local license corre there's a flag to us  obviously you can hear it in our voices here um we deal unfortunately we deal with the bad stuff  a lot yeah yeah understandable and all this right here Flags us as potential is there anything in  particular that I can bring Clarity to to uh but I think too just to interject for a second here  coming from another and like a business standpoint we definitely see the bad and we have the negative  obviously that's why the board is here but then on the other side of it you know we can't see the  future we can't see if he is going to do something wrong or one of the subcontractors is but if  someone does if that does happen then they will come before us I I understand what you're saying  but I just don't want to have too much like having our hand too much into to say you cannot make an  economic impact to our community we are not going to allow you to have an entity I understand and  appreciate what you're saying my concern is that uh the new entity has issues and quite honestly  what you've laid out as a structure doesn't hold you really accountable financially except for your  license in the sense and so I understand that you're a W2 employee but that to me just means  you can walk away at any point and not necessarily um um have any Financial backing to this company  if they have any wrongdoing that needs to happen or has happened um there's no there's no tie to  you other than your license financially for any harm that comes to those people on this company  because you're just a W2 employee as you said so at the end of the day if it does if their if their  insurance doesn't cover whatever the damage is and the people that are named don't have the funds in  which to cure that who's going to take care of it well presumably Quality Roofing who holds the  uh the primary contract with the homeowner uh it would default to theirs right so you've actually  got two levels of protection uh in the event that there is any uh issue with the homeowner you got  the um the the primary the quality who held the original contract and their insurances um and  then uh if uh if there was any need to subate to a subcontractor in their insurances uh there  would be two levels of protection there so I don't think there's any any concern in that  respect um certainly nothing that that that i' I've identified of course um I don't anticipate  having any problems like that so again please understand none of us are badgering you we've just  seen way too much over the last few years well I I've got nearly nearly 20 years uh uh and I think  I've maybe come in front of you guys one time in 20 years and it was immediately resolved um so  I uh I think I've got a pretty good track record of of doing the right thing and trying to uh be a  good example to uh businesses uh in the community so so my question Mr Marino um you looking at all  the documentation and actually really kind of seeing all the paperwork and everything um what  is your recommendation for this and do you see so in in this particular situation we have to defer  to the board for decision uh we are currently I did speak to Mr Ward we are waiting on additional  documentation uh to complete the process should it be permitted so I have not seen that portion of it  yet have you ever come across anything like this to where there would be a reason not to approve uh in this instance no ma'am um  ultimately this would have to be up to the board's the board's pleasure so who owns the company if you're just an employee which M andv uh the new company yeah  mmv uh the owner's name is Myra Castillo uh it's the the wife of Gaston uh who I've known for U  15 years um great people and uh I said they they trying to build build a company but I'm trying to  do what I can't to help them become compliant and then I said nurture them right and and and try to  try to give them some guidance um and I think this is a the right way to do it uh to to be compliant  and above board U and uh I just think we're doing it the right way just help me walk through just  for a second so as of right now Quality Roofing gets the permit you sub it to M and V correct  as of right now correct and they do all the work on the job site they they will under this under  this newu that's what's happening right now though because by law you can sub it to a separate entity  as long as you pull the we cannot we cannot sub to them at present because they're unlicensed they  don't currently have a license attached to that organization so we can't legally sub anything to  this but but you've worked with them in the past I have but they're not licensed I've worked with  them in the pass yes I have I'm not trying to trap you I'm trying to figure out there there's  something I'm not feeling fuzzy for whatever reason and so I'm trying to figure out what  the heck's going on yeah you know because this company's already been in existence there already  been a roofing company event they might be flying under the radar whatever that people do that  that's not would be the first time right uh and that's what I mentioned about helping them with  compliance that that's you know what what this helping them with compliance and uh helping them  understand how to run an operate a business is is really the what we're trying to accomplish here um  and uh yeah they've been under the radar uh over the years uh some but it's uh recently uh come  to come to light or I've I've gained a a better understanding of uh some of the requirements I was  previously under the impression that when it came to um Roofing in particular uh and really all um  all trades that as long as that work was being directly overseen um that that you're compant  however you're not actually just just in the past maybe six months or so uh uh learned that so you  know helping helping them all become compliant is you know the objective here have anybody else  have a question well I just oh go ahead go well you just said helping them all so how many more  of these do you plan on doing no just there's two um and you know if uh if legislation allows for  it um and there's there's not a problem with doing an additional then you know there may  be an opportunity to do that at some point in the future but I don't I don't see that it's not in in  my plans so and do you you also own or do you or is this just EB quality that is that you also I'm  a W2 employee there as well who wants that um uh vivana allejo and so we've already approved this  once before for Sor uh well no let me correct that real quick um if you remember whenever Mr Ward  came in to uh support some of his employees to get their own licenses he applied for um examination  as well on the local level at that time his business entity name was that entity name that  he put on his application so his original lure qualifies that business that he got on the local level but it was an existing business that's  correct at that time I guess that slipped past but I didn't realize that and it can qualify up to three companies I believe is that right Mr  Tim I think he I think you can qualify up to three companies with your state license I believe that's correct believe that's right yeah I believe that's correct and I'm not you know rainbows unicorn sunshine you know what I mean I know that  there's thing well yeah majority of the time you caught me um but I mean I know that there's the  negative out there but from everything that he's saying and that I see I just I don't see  a reason not to approve and hearing him it has that kind of stutter esque entrepreneur  ship leadership wanting to assist someone be the best that they can possibly be isn't  that what we as a board would want yeah if it's done in the right Dimension there just um when you when you qualify a separate entity typically that entity don't sub  from one of your other entities but with it I can qualify another building company right uh  actually I remodel but that company don't work for me it is a standalone so when you're under  the there's there's some uh great areas danger areas that can happen with this that's that's  what flagging me and some of it can be against Mr Ward big time because if if these guys go out  and do a job and unpermitted uh y'all can help me with this but if if they do an un permanent  job but you're the qualifier can be held liable for them pulling not pulling a permit and now  his license is in trouble you see what I'm saying there's there's a there's a spider web here and I  feel like I need we need some more information time something to figure something out here if  I may uh Alton I just I would have no issue with it I understand what you're doing and I  appreciate what you're doing yes I just want to I want personally want to be able to see  where there is more tie to you financially so that an oversight to said entity so that that  said entity isn't in here with a whole list of issues and owing a bunch of citizens money for  work not finished and it spiral out of control that that's if you could solve that puzzle for  us then that's that's the issue I think I can and um as as the license holder if if I'm the  only person uh associated with that entity that can sign for a permit um if I'm the only one that  can sign for a permit I think thereby like it that makes me responsible to any homeowner that  they were Contracting with so yes what Mr Ward is saying with and we haven't seen an Loa for  this company as of yet um so that means he has not authorized any person to do any kind of Permitting  on his behalf um then he is the responsible party if permits to should be pulled correct um and I  have no intention of of doing an Loa for either of these entities so you would be the person  signing the I would be ultimately responsible for anything so and and I said I'm comfortable  with that um so and your contract is written in such a way that Quality Roofing is really  the person on the hook with the customer at the end of the day and so that's my question because  he was saying and this is just coming from a permitting licensing standpoint point so would  the permits be obtained under Quality Roofing okay that that was my question so I think that  solves the question for me then at that point you youve covered it so that when the citizen comes in  here to complain because there's an issue we're going to come to you quality correct and we're  going to come to you both for your license and financially correct that's what that's mmv is  not pulling permits then no okay if they you just qualifying correct if any permit was pulled it'd  be done with my signature uh so I ultimately be responsible regardless but you're employee  of all the companies though correct okay no ownership in those companies correct W2 which  is legal correct absolutely kind of a loophole in the law of some sort but well but it's there it's  there use it right yeah there's no such things as loopholes in the walls sorry I Ed the wrong words yeah well thank you for what you're doing in the community I think this  is wonderful I think it's a good thing in my opinion any other discussion thank you for taking the time to explain this to us okay  do I have a motion for or against this I motion to approve and do I have a second I'll second I  have a motion to Second any other discussion all in favor raise your right hand all oppose same  sign okay the vote is approved by majority uh just word of advice to be very careful though  because you're you're treading somewhere here so I I think we're good thank you so much guys thank you uh good morning board um our first applicant well next applicant to appear before you today all right yes um our next applicant to appear before you today is Mr Brent Hunter  uh Mr Hunter if you will please come to the podium state your name and address for the record Brent Hunter 430 Waterberry Court cantonement Florida board members Mr  Hunter appears before you today applying for application for examination to take the resid  Cal contractor examination and appears before you today with 4 years 1 month and 27 days of  experience working under his former employer Mr Scott day license number cl- 318 now this  license is based out of the city of Brighton Colorado included in this package you will  find copies of Mr Day's license along with the definition of the corresponding license type  uh the Class C license held by the qualifier uh does match our definition set forth in chapter  48915 with one exception uh the testing for Colorado follows the code cycle set forth by  ICC G13 residential building contractor under this code a residential contractor  May construct a building up to a duplex in our code our residential contractors  are able to construct up to a Triplex now based upon the difference in code staff  is deferring the board deferring to the board for approval or denial of the application for examination and I just just as a side note I I want to introduce the board I'm sure most  of you have probably met Dante at some point he has become one of our newest  licensing Specialists and this is his first presentation to the board today and I think  he did a great job Nick doing a great job met I thank y'all him and yeah yeah and so  what Dante was referencing is is uh that Mr Hunter comes from out of state he and  so there's a little bit of differences with some definitions and it's for the board to determine and what is staff's recommendation be because of the differences in the definitions  uh staff at this time does not have a recommendation we're leaving it to the  discretion of the board thank you uh board members if I may sarcastically said you will find a a  definition for that Colorado lure type from the city of Brighton uh it meets almost all of our  qualifications with the exception of Triplex and duplex um our residential contractors can  go up to a Triplex but and that we are deferring to you based on that one difference and I think  U Mr Hunter can probably better explain all of his experience um than the documentation yeah  so growing up my dad actually built large Custom Homes so I was kind of raised around construction  um when I went into well shortly after high school I went to work at Gaylord of the Rockies as a HVAC  and Refrigeration technician so I went to trade College I got licensed in Heating and Cooling um  during that time I was an offer from Scot day so we did residential remodels and Commercial new  construction we did everything from Full guts everything down to the studs rebuilt it we did  additions um I was also when I worked for them project manager for uh crumble cookies tenant finish and so yeah that's I mean we did remodels  all the time everything from Aesthetics to you know full homes much structural stuff or mainly cosmetic structural too yeah we did roof  trusses when we did the additions um we did the excavation the foundations roof trusses exterior Framing and I found a definition here so the the ICC follows what the IRC is um  for the G13 and this says holds a license for construction on one and two family dwellings  U occupancy buildings and attached single unit dwellings so town houses essentially yeah it's  International building code yes correct yes sir we're Florida you know we think we're a  little bit better than that we we take yours and rank it up a little bit put our name on it you know um any questions from anybody on this how long have you been here in this area  so I was actually in Nashville remodeling a town home when my brother moved here um  two years ago so I moved down here cuz he had brought my stuff with him because I lived with  him out in Colorado um but I've been back and forth so I've been here for good for  last summer since last summer and and where you working now just by myself by yourself for myself well so do we blame you for the cold weather then I'm not a fan of it  anymore either longer you stay here the less fan you'll be any comments any questions all  right do I have a motion I make a motion to approve second Jinx second these ladies from  a roll all in favor raise your right hand all oppose same sign seeing none you've  been unanimously approved good luck with it sincerely we love seeing young guys coming  in like this uh our industry needs young people all this old farts we need young  people see how I look at here so thank you for for doing this good luck with everything okay do we need to take a quick break anybody Donuts do we need to take a quick break are we  good okay I lost time all right our next item um we're moving into disciplinary hearings  both of our next items are restitution only hearings we've already the board has already  made determinations as far as violations so the first one is Wade L Hunter III doing business  as Lee Hunter Construction LLC registered license number RR 28281 12171 contractor competency board  complaint number 24863 coom it's in regard to Julie Ricks the homeowner complainant at  215 Berry Road Pensacola Florida 3257 proper notice was sent to the respondent Miss RX are  you present today and are you going to provide testimony um Mr Hunter are you  present today Mr Hunter is not present Melissa did we receive communication from Mr Hunter  in regard to today yes he texted me um about a quarter to 9 and said he was going to be  running late and I explained to him we had other things on the agenda first just get  here as quick as you can could you text him to see if he's like within two minutes if he  is we could but if he's 30 40 you know we're just going forward but at least be considerate while we're waiting um when the board meeting is over today we have some donuts and some biscuits  and something back there in the back if you guys would like to thank indulge you're spoiling us  happy New Year thank you Happy New Year definitely want to make sure our security  lady gets something we're thankful for her yes we are thought it was charging all this time it was even charging he said he had to borrow a car to get here so he's still about 15 minutes  out and he said he'd go ahead with it if you're going to but he'll still continue coming take a five 10 minute break just give him an extra couple minutes and just to try  to be considerate if anybody wants to run to the restrooms take a break take a five minute recess all most I don't want to just to let you know that's so what oh Janay on top of was this for how was your holidays a l it know on it looks pretty good and then when it heats up it starts rinking I've got a was conratulations I've been on a pretty long time en a lot lot of most was you believe is long history bless you I wanted to ask you that off the so you didn't have to write Miss Tim I just I just saw Miss Rhonda I no I didn't know that she  come walk up said hey Alon that's what she told me she said what to don't your and we'll call the meeting back to order I have I think we got carried away on our time a little bit there all right so we've reconvened I've already readed this um case into into the  minutes I believe Mr Hunter has now joined us um Miss RX did say that she was going  to provide testimony Mr Hunter are you going to provide testimony today um so  I'm going to leave it to the discretion of the board um again everything else on this  hearing has already been decided this is for restitution purposes only Okay so so have they been sworn in do we need  to swar them in we can now U Mr RX Mr Hunter if you'll please be sworn thank you so miss Ricks would you like to go first to explain um Miss Rex real quickly um did you provide an any additional documentation from the last  time so staff would request that the documentation attached to the agenda it was previously attached  at the last hearing be moved into evidence for today all moved do have a second all in favor  raise your right hand I'll oppose same sign seone hearing none motion is approved thank you Mr rexs so what would you like to know I think the last time we had  some questions about some of the details on this and does anybody have yes if you recall I believe the board just needed additional time to run through the  documentation and see if they had any questions um I think someone did ask me about the contract with  the new contractor right and that contract is a Cost Plus so I mean I gave him and I think that's  included in the documentation I've already given you was what he was paid as the contractor and  then anything past that point um we have a text string where we talk about what the approximate  cost would be per thing that we would be doing like for the other subs that came in um but as far  as like nailing it down exactly how much things were going to cost we didn't do that we didn't  have that in our contract and I guess I'm assuming that's how Cost Plus works so Jennifer can you  pull up the um the document that says restitution document submitted and redacted so that's the  front page here that you'd see on your screen would you like me to just scroll through each page  let me ask a question first so what I I mean I can see that you've got $50,000 worth of  cost $50,100 43 worth of cost and then 295 in payments but um there was a question in  there somewhere where uh was payment to the new subcontractor and I think that  got um if you go down um I believe that's that first reference up here of the $15,000  so that's to the new person correct not what you paid Mr Hunter okay so  the 50,000 is what you contracted with Mr Hunter for I contracted with Mr Hunter for  66,000 and I paid him 35,000 you contracted for 66 and you gave him 35 correct of that 35 of that 35 what was actually completed the floor okay which I think that's one of  the reasons we were requesting right from the new contractor the scope of work that  was pending so we can better determine you know where contractor a left off and  where contractor B is beginning and what it's going to take to get to the end right and I  get to the end or to get to the point where Mr Hunter would have been in the in the contract  because it was 35,000 up front we got to knock down and then once we got to knock down then I  would give him another installment and then the end the job another installment so I'm sorry I'm  a little confused by I understand what you're saying to knock down but you know if again that  you're telling us it's to knock down we don't we don't know what that interpretation means because  we don't know how much knockdown how much wall space so if we had that would be on the first  contract right there should have been a cont contract we what we requested was the contract  with the new with your new contractor and I didn't see it in the documentation literally is just Cost  Plus it's like I I understand what you're saying Cost Plus but there should still be some kind of  scope of work contract of written been included in the permit whatever he applied for you should  have a contract with him even if it's a Cost Plus there should be a contract that's written between  the two for your prot of some kind he didn't include the C he didn't include any of that  stuff what you're talking about you're setting yourself up for the same issue I suppose so yes y it it's very difficult for us to come up with a or agree with a restitution amount  if we don't have something in writing from the new person and what their scope is going to be  of what they're going to do or finish right or have done at this point versus what your first  Mr Hunter did you contracted with and what he actually completed and you paid him for right  we have to have both of those in order to compare to come up with what that restitution number would  be and if we don't we're we're stuck okay and the job still going it's not completed correct are you able to get that from the current contractor I don't think it would be too difficult  if he a contractor Prov you would think so would you yeah did there is a permit a new permit on  this job yes so I can bring up the permit and y'all can take a look at the permit I correct me  wrong Alton is that is that not a requirement that they have a contract is that not part  of the permitting process in your world we don't require appr I know you guys don't but is it not  part of the rules so to speak the by the Florida law yeah the Florida building code requires for  there to be some type of a contract deal and the contractor should know that whoever's doing it  cost you got to have certain U verbiage in that contract including the construction recovery I  mean there's a whole bunch of stuff that's legal that you have to have in there question you've  I'm trying to put my brain around these told numbers and okay we were hoping for a better  breakdown to be honest that's what we were looking for instead of the same thing I'm seeing $50,000  that you're listing here you know based on the contractor 15 electrician n9ine plumber 8 Etc Cost Plus and I'm seeing 15,000 to the Builder out of this I take that out of 50  just using rough figures that means around 35 has been spent for the  project right and he's charging you 15,000 and the fee on top of 30 other  words you spend 35,000 and he's charging $155,000 fee for $35,000 worth of work so far your original contract was for how much 65,000 66 Ro buiness 56,000 66 66,000 and I'm looking at  this right now where it says project type contract value is 35,000 this is the new this is the new  one so according to the new general contractor he's saying that the contract value of this job  is 35,000 that's correct and the original contract value was 60 something you said 56 666 she giv him  35 and you're giv him 35 so 35 and 35 70 so the difference is about five yeah I mean 35  is what I've spent I haven't necessarily that's just a whole other issue I have another issue  with another contractor that doesn't even need to so he has he has gotten like the the plumber  I pay the plumber and he pulled the permits I paid the plumber the electrician I paid the  electrician my contractor that has $15,000 of my money is not doing what he's supposed to do  either that's a whole other thing I see you guys later um but so at this point and actually you  may not because I'm so overall of it I just but so at this point right now um the house  is not finished um it got to knockdown it's been painted and the floor is going in and um I don't know what else to I'm exhausted because I'm physically doing a lot of the work myself  so sorry if I don't have this is just where I am so F you said 5,000 is the difference  no uh do we still have a final to do on this on the inspection or is there any inspection  still pending so to draw your attention to the screen um it does have a couple of  past inspections under the new contractor's permit uh strapping and nail and framing um  that would put the next inspection to be due would be a final when it's complete and who's  the contractor the new contractor this one was pulled by PB Services Group LLC Rodrigo Barona I I just don't think we have enough to make a decision I don't know whether to  wait till the final permit is issued and then um it's closed out and she  has the final numbers as a settlement uh I know that Mr Hunter is present if  you want to talk to him as well I mean he might be able to give you some more information get me yeah there's just you know 35,000 and a contractor charg you 15,000 for that  much of work for his amount of fee that's about a what a 50 something per cost plus 50 something  % and I would imagine you didn't agree to cost plus 50 something I didn't agree to cost plus plus  do you have a contract with him at all yes okay if you can possibly bring that to us we want to  try to help you first of all let me tell you we're here to help you I know I'm sincere we're here to  help you but we have to have some structure to be able to put that together I does that make  sense and I can understand Miss Rick you're you're probably wits in whatever words on this thing yeah  so we don't want to make it more complicated but we have to be fair for the whole picture  does that make sense thank you for understanding abely and if you could possibly get that to us is  that what the thoughts are yes okay all righty do we need to take a vote on that or just just recommend to continue to for continuance for next hearing  personally would encourage you to talk to Mr Hunter because he is right we'll do that as  well we'll do that as well need a motion and a vote gotcha got you just want to confirm that  thank you m Rick Mr Hunter would you like to say something concerning this case so we started this job I don't remember the exact date it was around July last year  um and then like I said last meeting within like two weeks I was terminated when I went to  pay for the permit that's when she hired the new contractor out that was one of my subcontractors  she just hired him right out from underneath me and now I guess she's having issues with him as  well but she didn't even realize that she's paying a $155,000 contractor fee which is odd  um do I need to go over the work completed do are y'all I mean we talked about this but that's what  I was going to go over I know she said all that was done was the floor but there was  other things that was done so I don't that's all I was going to talk about was all the work that  was completed I think what we need to now that you know that wish is requesting is a rebuttal  to yeah she wants $50,000 for a job that she paid me $35,000 to do that I've done probably close to  $30,000 $35,000 in work on I mean she went out and hired a a new contct contractor a new electrician  a new plumber I don't really see why I would be liable to pay for that you know or contractor  fees of $15,000 to a new guy she she terminated me within you know a couple weeks Jenifer did we  already get information I'm sorry did we already get information from Mr Hunter of um his side  of what he already completed and paid and paid for and and accounting of his the money that he  received so far we have not received an accounting of his funds um um what he expended today okay he um Miss Reber is saying that he had a breakdown in his contract that was originally  provided um and so that that might be some information that could assist it' be helpful  if you can go through that and from your version see what percentage of work was completed based on  the original contract that you had right and then attach a dollar value to it and so that way we  know exactly where you're at on the and then come back next month I I think we're probably heading  towards making that motion to postpone until next meeting something that shows us something  that shows us how much Mone we need some definites we don't this the scattering is is hard for us to  bring and this would be like the fifth month this has been continued so yeah I get it yeah we don't  want you to come back any more than you want to we want to get it resolved for everybody involved  right but at the same time we can't just throw a number out without there being some  right absolutely yeah you know something to build that number on right so if you could take your uh  original contract Mar what you have completed and it should have a number value out there right and  then we will check with Miss Ricks to make sure that that has been completed in other words we'll  we'll be fair to the process I sent pictures of everything that I was that that was done to M  we'll repair the process to make sure so that we know what's what's to be subtracted sounds good  is that correct from everybody anybody confident with that okay so I need a motion for continuance  I'll make a motion for continuance on this case and a second I'll second all right all in favor  raise your right hand all oppose same sign see none hear none motion has been approved for continuance to February yes sir that's correct our next item again is a restitution only hearing um it is Wade L Hunter  II doing business as Lee Hunter Construction LLC registered license number r r 28281 12171  contractor competency board complaint number 24967 c it's in regard to Jeffrey and Cynthia  hedenberg the homeowner complainants at 65 61 oakcliff Road uh Pensacola Florida 32526 as  you recall at our last hearing you needed more documentation some more information in regard  to restitution um we did you also asked for some updated photos you wanted to see the progress and  where it stood um all of that information is now attached to this agenda um and so at this  time I'm going to go ahead preemptively and request that those be moved into evidence so  moved do I have a second second all in favor raise your right hand oppose same sign see  none hear none motion is approved uh Mr and Miss hedenberg are present today um are you going to  provide testimony for this hearing thank you and Mr Hunter we know is present I'm going to have  the hedenberg sworn in and remind uh the board that Mr Hunter was already sworn and remains sworn um I'm going to leave it to the discretion of the board on how they wish  to proceed okay so we see the information uh could you pull up the accounting form there on  the request yes ma'am just everybody to be able to see some numbers here before we go into this is just so I believe how Mr hedenberg broke it down is all  the items paid as items one through eight and then deductions a through H so that so  then you see his breakdown here in the final number that he came to again he's  here for any explanation you might need okay just make sure everybody sees that first there Mr heidenberg would you like to basically it's at a standstill um I got the roof done I paid to do it he was supposed to  give the deposit we waited a week waited two weeks waited three weeks he never got in touch  with the the roofer I'd already done a knock and everything else for that um there was no  contact after that he stopped answering text he he hasn't answered a phone call period he  always texts you back um the inside um do you have the uh sheet the contract sheet was it part of this backup sir should be the next sheets the next Pages this one that  one okay um this copy doesn't have what was completed but um I'll go through real quick  with the parts so that you understand better on what was completed and what wasn't um the ini payment was given and that was a 68,000 he completed everything on the inside of the house pretty much with the exceptions  of the floor and the bathroom the master bath he did some work in there and it got left like  it is the flooring was done all the way up to the master bedroom room and the second bedroom  across the hall I still need the floor I have a stack of flooring in my living room still  for to finish it I had asked for estimates from him to show bills and stuff that he had paid or  what he paid people I get no answers um the big piss off on this was trying to send him  the Construction contract termination letter I get it back unopened not received so he's not  even given addresses to them that are correct because I use the address that I got from up  in the front office so to me he's just playing the same way he did when they worked with the  previous company that he worked for that guy's in jail now he's following the same pattern I need some of this money back that he has  taken and I took my money out of my retirement to do this room Edition I shouldn't have because I found out later I have cancer and that that is  another whole cost but this is getting to the point where once you all make  your determination it's going to be a civil case and it's going to be for probably more  than what he's willing to come up with but that's going to take a judge's order if you have any questions on any of the amounts feel free to ask what is your current claim right  now your total claim that you feel that you owed the previous one is 68,000 for the amounts that  bills I paid to do the roof I paid off the lumber company which is the item five and  and uh three and four are the roof the one and two are the payments that he  received the initial payment was 63 the next payment was the 15 for finishing the framing and pretty much after that one is when he just cut off all contract so  in total you've paid the contractor what in total I paid the contractor the 60 the 63 and 15 69 68 eight how did you got the old one up there 68,000 is  what it's showing on the contract in this okay plus the 15 the roof  was paid out of my pocket it was supposed to come out of that money the bill for the lumber he should have paid I went  ahead and paid it because every month they were adding another $90 to it for interest um the other items are letters certified letters to try and get him to respond to something those are the 67 and8 the items on AB through H are estimates on some of it um where I  called contractors to see what it would cost to do uh a slab to the  standards that were required because of the addition they had to drill into the  main foundation so it was extra work it wasn't just a pour in a slab the uh the estimate on the floor was what was done by percentage so that should cover pretty much  all the numbers just so I can wrap my head around this I'm going to kind of go through this where I  can understand it so to date you had paid the contractor 83,000 yes the new contractor have  you hired a new one yet no I can't get someone to come out okay so how much have you paid out  of pocket on top of the 83,000 to get to the work to where it's at today the 14 for the roof  and change and the 11,39 to the lumber company so items 3 through five right 335 and what was  the total value of the contract total value of the contract was I owed him and he would have  gotten another um just the total not what he's left what was the total including the 83 94 150 94150 and in your opinion you don't know what percentage of work was completed  would you be able to determine that the percentage on the inside went by  pretty quick taking out the fireplace that only took that took less than a week um  um the flooring and doing the ceiling patches was another probably two weeks um if you had to place a doll of value to what's left to do would you be able  to I mean I know you said you haven't hired anybody but what do you think it would take  based on experiences that you've had the people that you've talked to two rooms of flooring or  the two rooms inside of flooring and then the large room outside the one person I've talked  to said he would give me a discount because there was the the one room is empty there's  no furniture they've got to move around or anything they've just got to lay the floor  um wallboard ceiling Electrical Plumbing um my big cost is going to be electrical uh windows and some kind of covering for the outside the cost that I've gotten on the outside  was 35,000 to get the aluminum siding to match the other that's on the house already 25,000  35 35,000 excuse me 100 okay okay it was uh 7500 for Brick if I wanted to match the brick coming on around windows were uh to get ones where I don't have to put up shutters was 10,000 to get Windows  where I have to still put up shutters was uh what was originally contracted on that  yeah what was originally contracted with your original contract so I'm trying to Define that  if he would have finished job his scope of work and he quit let's just say hypothetically 50% of  it right now so I'm I'm understanding that you haven't bought in another contractor either to  give us a dollar value and what it's going to take to finish the work like our previous  case he's probably only done 40% 40% of the work okay because from the pictur you can  see the room is not it it's frame and that's about it frame and cutouts for the windows  his contract where he did pricing he didn't price each individual thing he put addition in a total  price M okay but there was no breakdown for what each thing cost like Windows and siding or brick  or anything like that it was just like a bulk cost for the room yeah I think that's why it's  important that you you're probably going to again for me to feel comfortable at least to  get a contractor to come in and price I have called six of them they will not come they do  not want to touch anything with that name on it because the first thing they go and do is look  and see who the previous contractor was yeah nobody else home Emerald Emerald Coast um they  they did the roof their their parent company was supposed to come give me an estimate and  he called and said he's sorry he couldn't come out he wasn't going to touch it but basically  I we can't get anybody to come look at it because of the name that's associated with it and it's cing inconveniences in other ways because it causes me inconveniences  with work because I have nowhere to store my work clad so they're  like you know folded up in boxes and stuff I'm having to get off work early  to come to these hearings so you know is causing me an inconvenience in that area board members I'm bringing up the photos that were attached to the agenda  just to give you an idea of the current conditions that's what the addition like I've started trying to take down some of the stuff but I can't work that much during the day when  there's light because I'm having because she has to sleep JY in a situation like this is this something where we would use a County  resource to go out and make an evaluation or have you ever had an instance like this no we have not I will said the last meeting that someone come out and take pictures but I  don't you provided the pictures yeah so he didn't come out but you were supposed to  send someone that would estimate we don't provide estimates um like that I mean we  can do something as a courtesy to deem whether it's safe or unsafe they they asked for it for  them not for me I understand what you're saying um we we we requested pictures pictures were  provided we did not send an employee out to make a determination on what percentage of work was done  we don't know there's no way for our staff to get into that contract and make a determination  on what percentage is complete it's not objective it's subjective correct correct in this picture you can see that they replaced the part of the ceiling above the  shower but they put up the wrong kind of ceiling for because it's not waterproof um and you don't  have to tell what appr proof well it's with that bathroom you don't you don't have to have I had  a mold problem to begin with with it's it's just not code that you have it's not code but I wanted  the uh the antibacterial the green I understand that so if you go back to the previous picture if  you see the light not no the bathroom go back up go back up so if you see in the very back there's  a light that his dad installed apparently he laid what was it the the power it's one of those uh LED  lights with a separate power source he didn't put it up on the beam like it's supposed to be  and that's what the black spot is next to the light because there's a hot spot so that's G to  have to be replaced and that light is already burned out so there's all kinds of work that  I have to do still on either side where there's there was a wall see wood there was stuff there  but on this side of it there's electrical um that his dad worked on and replaced not very well um you're you're talking about the contractor's father Yes okay my  dad's passed I'm sorry yeah sorry um so yeah and that that whole closet  area right there that part was supposed to be knocked out um and it's not knocked out that still part that's where the vanity is and so that wall on that side where the door  frame is All That was supposed to be knocked out so we could get a big bigger vanity and expand that that is our current bedroom which once the  addition was finished that was supposed to be two big closets so same photo just a little lighter do you guys have drawings done for this hm did you  have drawings done for this he had was supposed to he did a uh did a plan um the person that  did the plans did not come out and look at what was being done they have uh the plans have a uh  door double door going out of the addition and we didn't want doors going out we just  wanted windows but they didn't pour any kind of uh threshold outside of it the people doing the  framing were just following the picture they did not follow the supplemental instructions that they  were given two days before they ran the roof all the way to the peak of the old roof where it was  only supposed to go uh halfway up to match the roof line of the sun room Edition that sticks  out next to it in the one picture where you see a sliding door that is the sun room that it goes into that is some of the work in the living room that is work in the kitchen no that's the living room and oh  yeah that's the living room and I am going to have to repaint part of that wall now because okay that's the $1,400 beam that he had to put in cu the roof started sagging the ceiling  started sagging down which the beam itself is starting to come apart from the ceiling so that's  the living room that's the flooring that's sitting in my living room that's taking up a bunch of space this is the wall going to the sun room that's the sliding door that  was supposed to come out there's a window and a sliding door that all have to come out that's the whole picture of the sliding glass door in the window that was supposed to come out the plywood standing up against the wall is where the window was in  the bedroom that will be eventually hopefully a doorway coming out but he had to put thatw up to keep the the light out I have been trying to take down the brick um price is probably you you asked about what it's going to cost um the for the electrical  is probably going to run up into the 2000s at least because I'm probably going to have to  run a 220 line out to the room because I plan on putting separate AC's wall units out there  was this all in your contract originally uh originally I'd asked for that but he didn't  put it in that so yeah we we're just going to have to stay in the confines of what we've what  your contract is that's what I'm leading into here we I understand you may have to eventually but we  have to we have to look at what the contract was what the actual is well okay on the room  all he did all he put was complete room with drywall and paint and new flooring right um the  plans have electrical and everything else in them is there any more pictures Miss Jennifer just okay and also in order to add this addition on we had to take down our our permanent fence and  put up a temporary fence that is not very I've got people walking into the backyard basically  and with that you know temporary fence they can get into that room they could get into  the house through the sliding glass door so it's not very uh safe right now that fence  being so your request from the board today is what dollar amount are you seeking for damages  to start if you can't come up with a for the room being completed and stuff I need the 14  for the roof and the 11 excuse me for the uh pain the Lum company but it's not starting whatever  judgment we give whatever we decide on will be final so the total act paid in the 83 minus what  can go down a little bit minus the uh items on a through H so it' be 68 is what I'm looking for and we can have them come back with more information as well which we're probably going  to have to listen listen to the contractor okay any other questions he may be able to give you  a [Music] better or more accurate for the items because I had to estimate them because he wouldn't  tell me what he did for this and for the concrete for example I put 73 because that's what I got as  an estimate for somebody to pour in a slab because I'm putting a slab on the other side for a patio  and when that guy was there I asked him how much would you have charged me to do this slab on this  side and he just threw me a number of 73 and we really couldn't trust anything from him on  he said he spent on this or that because he never would um give us receipts or copies  of receipts and that was a never ending battle with him because I constantly texted and asked  for that even when he asked for more money I was like well I want to see what you've spent  so far and what you spend it on because what you're saying you need more money  for this and everything you've already gotten you know the 68 originally and you did not do  enough work or spend enough to account for 8,000 then another 15 on top of that I'm sorry and I just don't think um I don't have very much respect for him because of just  taking the money and leaving and I'm not trying to play the syty vote but taking it from someone  who has cancer and is having to battle that and knowing there's going to be cost to that  and then he just up and takes off with the money and doesn't finish the job that is just to me is  a very despicable human being and just don't have any respect for the man and they they always tell  you that dogs are good judging people well I should have listened to my three dogs because  neither none of them liked him thank you so just to add some more information and hopefully have  the board be able to understand where this project was at I pulled up the permitting  records you'll see it up there on the screen there were some inspections performed on this  addition um our inspector went out in June of last year for the strap and nail so it did  have the footing inspection it did have those Foundation items and all the way to the strap  and nail the next inspection would have been a framing and then a final so that can give you  kind of a timeline or an approximation of where the additions stood um so all the work up towards  that has been inspected it appears up towards according to the records right right okay Mr Hunter so Let's see we I'm G to have to go back and forth I'm sorry guys um line item one on my  estimate was to build the addition Outback which was priced at $74,000 um the second  item was replace the fireplace to open the wall that was completed the third item was to build  the two closets in their current bedroom which was discussed to be done after the addition was  done so they could move everything out um open the kitchen wall that was done installed the lvp  throughout the FL uh throughout the house they were allotted $2 a square foot to buy materials  the materials actually came in at $289 a square foot um that was done all the way up to like he  said the master bath or bedroom sorry was not complet sleep because they're still living in  there and then as the picture showed the one bedroom in the in the back hallway you just  couldn't get in there there was just too much stuff so that was going to be done you know at  a later time as well um let's see go back um we removed the closet in the hallway and then we  installed the beams in the living room you know she said last meeting that she thought the job  was at 70 to 75% on video is what she said now they're saying 40 40% so I don't I don't really  know where to stand I said it was probably around 80% done with everything and you know  I think she counted with 75 so now they're saying 40 can I just stop you for a second you're saying  you think it's 80% finished right and last last meeting she said 75 so now I'm not talking about  her I say 80 yeah 80 yeah so the pictures we just saw is that the condition it's in right now yeah  it needs four windows in the addition and then the side all the sheet rock yeah a little bit  of insulation drial yeah so the entire job from start and you think it's 80% finished  the entire job not just the addition itself but the the scope of the the whole contract yes he  said previously 75% I'm looking at 75 yeah I'm just from what pictures we saw today I  think Mr Irwin's been in remodeling building as long as I am but I don't see 80% anywhere close and any part of the addition done just a framing just the framing is done on the addition addition was 74,000 yeah and that was 74,000 right so 74,000 to frame it complete the room  with drywall paint and new flooring and all that's done is the framing correct and of of that scope just that one line you're saying 80% no  I was talking about the entire job with the beams and the rest of the floor being done  and the walls being taken out of the house the fireplace being removed okay so on the line item we just say line item one just for reference here building the 25 by 16  74,000 and then obviously that's only framed up correct that's yep slab and and frame done yeah  does it have a shingle roof on it is metal so it's all dried in correct and then the  remove fireplace has been completed or not correct that's been completed yes sir the walk-in closets  that's not completed that's where they're staying at now so no sir I'm asking you I'm not yeah no  not complet that's that's the room they're in now so those closets haven't been built yeah  okay and then the open the kitchen wall done not done and obviously lvp's not been installed and  then removing the two walls been installed and everything except for those back rooms the lvp  it's installed throughout the other part of the house correct okay so uh remove the two walls  uh one's been removed one's still standing and of course it's not repaired we saw the  pictures of that so it's not and then the closet in the hallway it's not done removed  it's been taken out yes sir seem like way less than 80% and then the beans in the living room  the last one's also done so do you have a breakdown of the money that was provided  to you and what it went towards not on not on this phone but you would be able to get that yes then you didn't hire any subs to do this this was just you doing the work yourself  no I hired Subs you had Subs yeah so you'd have documentation showing what you've paid  your subs for the percentage of completion that they did yeah is there any electrical  and plumbing permits attached to this no so any electrical work has been done has  been unpermitted um from this project you see it's here um this is where Mr Hunter  pulled his permit there was a roofing permit obtained there have been no other permits obtained Mr Hunter this is not the first time we've ran into this with you on the electrical right I don't know if you're not getting the message or if you don't give her fill  in the blank but it matters to us that we have unlicensed contractor activity going  on out here right that's what we're here for to protect the citizens right uh I I want to think  better of you but you're letting us know that you really don't pay much attention to us yes sir which is very I think I could speak for most of the board and say that's pretty uh  challenging for us to see somebody who blatantly walks in and just says don't care what y'all think there's a lot of other words come my mind from a construction  job site and I'm not going to say them right you understand what I'm saying here yes sir I don't know if you totally got this or not  but but you dug yourself into a pretty deep spot here yeah I get it Jennifer so the owners asking for 68,4 3774 is that correct yes ma'am in the living room excuse me I'm sorry I thought you was Miss Jennifer give  me just a second I'm sorry I'm sorry I apologize I thought you was Miss Jennifer talking that's what  I was in the same dialogue okay question just just because we've got newer board members how  many times has Mr Hunter been here um so we've had a couple of complaints this this set of hearings  these two complaints have run concurrent prior to that they there was a prior one  that was dismissed um Mr Hunter worked to make it right on that prior one um so I just to remind  the board at our last hearing Mr Hunter was found in violation of several things and in  the board took a rather strong stance in the disciplinary action and also directed um the  building official to be monitoring whatever active permits are under the license right so that's  Mr Hunter at that time told the board that he was not going to continue Contracting he  was going to finish up these projects and and basically he was taking everything in active  he's not going to be doing this anymore I I think he might even have mentioned that  he was going to be working for someone else um so that's where it stands now um and to interject really quickly on the numbers um the numbers are different in  both places so I just want to have some clarification on that to make  sure we're getting the correct number um while it is a small differential  it's still a differential so on item one stated in the prior page it's $ 63,360 56 which would bring it to 91690 74 which would thereby bring the total to 68240 and.  74 cents so just to make that clarification is which numbers are correct there was a corrected right I believe um Mr hedenberg mentioned that he had  a typo here um item one uh was 68,000 and3 but the typo here is 63,000 flat  so the the difference there is $5,000 and3 the other one as well miss Luna noted so then this page here that you're showing is correct with the numbers that's  the testimony that was provided by Mr hedenberg is the actual complete  write out not the summarization the write out was correct okay any other questions for Mr Hunter thank you Mr Mr hedenberg did you want to address the board again  I did can you come the mic please do have to I can hear it so on the vinyl plank flooring that was installed in the living room and part into  the kitchen um they original flooring that was in the kitchen um was lenium so and it has something  else over it but it was lower than the original flooring in the living room so in order to build  that up he was going to put um plywood underneath to make it level well after it was done we told  him that it had like a spongy feel when you walked from one room to the other and he said that would  resolve itself in a couple of months um we're going to have to replace that flooring actually  because this has not resolved it's still spongy when you walk from one room to the other and it  actually has a small crack it's cracking where the walls were taken out um they put in plywood  because the kitchen had lenium originally and then she put my mom put tile over it so it had  ceramic tile on top but it was still lower than what was in the living room the wall was the 2x4  he replace that with plywood but when the guys put put it in they didn't fill it all the way  to the gaps in other words they just cut a piece and set it in there figuring that the flooring  would level itself but with lvp it it dishes it's soft it it will go to weight so if you  put anything heavy on it it goes through I have a roll cart in there right now and one of the  wheels has cracked through the floor because of that space where the plywood is where where you  saw the Beam run that was where that one post is that was where the fireplace was when they built  the house they sloped it for some reason right there it's dished and the plywood that they put  in was not thick enough so when you walk across the floor they didn't use enough glue either when  you walk across it it flexes on you so there's a lot of things that about the flooring that's down  that's going to have to be repaired still is what she's trying to make the point of okay thank you guys do we have a new number Miss Jennifer that  um based on item number one supposed to be 68 etc etc I know I just I wanted we I think the board feel you know we want to come to a resolution but  we want to do what's right so of correct and then are we adding the 4,000 with the fouring I think the flooring is included isn't it right but it's deducted from the total so just  from the testimony that was just given is that something then we need to but they do have the  to come back if the like they thinking it needs to be replaced I don't think there's  an absolute yet I think they do have the ability to come back and and I read on the  contract it also said that it was going to be laid over existing it did say that so I  don't know that we can so chairman if I take the discrepancies from the first page to the  second page and add them to what he was asking for that total number is $73,345 % I'm going by these two pages right right that's so that's that's the number that I  have calculated that's adding the 5,000 the 5,13 that were discrepancies between  the two pages excuse me a second so that's the difference now would be  73 24074 that's correct okay I see my only map there is on item one that she pointed  out there's 5,000 short correct that's what we just corrected there's it was $53 short  and then on item four um it's $100 short we just corrected that to be 73 24074 here you  have 7546 here you have 7446 okay sorry yes sir yes sir we want to make sure it's right okay any other questions from the board discussion before we go I  if not we'll take a motion the amount ask at this point is 73 24074 have a motion from anyone I personally speaking I just don't think we have enough here to for me to make a motion um again  I feel comfortable with contractors coming in here and contradicting each other versus a non-contract  and a contractor even though the contractor you know clearly is defaulted uh it's hard for me  to determine that you know it could be more than 68 it could be less than 68 but we we don't have  anybody professional and they're having a hard time getting contractors to come and so that  kind of part concerns me also that they don't have anybody that's going to be able to go into  it but then how are you going to finish the job and number two you did say you're going to go to  civil if you go to civil they're going to require all this you know they're just not going to go to  court and determine you know based on you know proper evidence being provided whether they can  put a judgment against the contractor whoever that may be so if that's the direction you're going  that's still going to be needed in the long run and I just think for it may be arbitrary for us  to just say okay you know we're going to go ahead and award $73,000 in Damages I would rather feel  comfortable to again push yourself another to our next meeting if the board is agreeing with  me till we get you know maybe just try hard and get some contractor to come in in write  up a bit uh they don't necessarily have to do the work but it's just a matter of getting them  to put a bit together to look and see what the remaining scope of work is and what that  cost is going to be okay so I'll close with there do that you can't you can't  Mr hedenberg you can't just respond from the floor sorry any other discussion and  we will allow you to speak again but we have to maintain it um any other discussion from up here anybody's feeling that thoughts from others that we need some more info from another  yeah I mean at this point if we if we award them the 73 it's like  a full refund of the entire project and that's not that we can't do that either we yeah yeah I don't know that I could say 80% % of the contract amount is done maybe 80% of  the items that were listed but that number one item is the big right ticket item and  so you know it's 80% of the items versus 8% of the money right but even at% 9 uh 4150 you know half of that's 40 something you know what I'm saying so it there's a discrepancy still  in in I understand but to me it's almost semantics at this point of what what is being said because I  understand with this contract but the bulk of the money is in that one line item so at this point at  most 45% of the work has been done at most think let me ask legal this question and our job here  is to determine the damages that have been caused by the contractor and not what it takes to finish  the job because I if they don't have a contract and if there's not a supplement line item in that  contract that states that if you default you know you will pay whatever supplement there is when I  hire another contractor we don't have that here uh so that it's kind of difficult for to make  that decision until we get a GC or somebody to come in there and provide us a competitive bit to  say here's what it's going to cost to complete it then we can take the amount that's already  been paid and we have a little deduction in there that we can see has he been overpaid  or you know again correct that's one of the fundamental aspects of contract laws putting the  person in the place where they would be had the contract been fulfilled and bridging that Delta  there and ascertaining those numbers would have to be proven right and we can as a board after at  that time determine whether or not to ask for more based on what the uh dollar value is to complete  that job because then you know due to delays or due to like them saying having a hard time  finding a contractor there may be a reason that's why they're charging a little higher because they  don't know what percentage of work the percentage of work that's completed whether it's a default  in there they'll find something wrong in there so there may be a contingency in there that we can allow I could see that yes and I will say historically this board has awarded restitution  for current issues so say a subcontractor was not not paid and the homeowner paid it um on  previous cases that has been the case with the caveat that should you incur any further damages  please bring it back to the board I know that it's hard to predict future damages and I think  that's what this request is is asking for um but I know that historically this board has  has done what I I stated you've looked at what you had what has already been expended out of  pocket by the complainant and then included the caveat to come back should you incur anything further thank you for going next I was any those same lines myself of  the roofing that's been paid according to this is 12,546 56 yes sir those two uh items three  and four um would be was was the roof and I and I say I said all that because I know that  we do have some newer board members that maybe don't know the full history of what this board  has done right right so we know we paid that and then the tibits lumber that's correct that was it  more than just 1100 1113 that they've already paid from the statement that's on here um I I  believe that's what he paid to titim somewh so those are the two absolutes that has been out of  pocket money and then he also items six seven and eight um that's all of his demand letter  mailings things like that right right right yeah Mr um hedenberg I'd have to ask you again please  don't just approach the please don't approach the stand until we ask our okay thank you uh 1,139 right that was the tibit L yes it's on your screen as item five plus the 558 1453  and 968 that's the out of pocket that we have accounting for is that correct that Pro that was  provided by Mr hedenberg right that's what I just want to verify that what does that total come to that comes up to be a total of 13, 6877 four if I have my math if my calculator worked right can  we ask is that number right do what sir can we find out if that number is right Mr hedenberg  the the board is asking if those numbers and items three through eight are accurate numbers  yes she receipts right yes right it's in the list here to verify that is the amount yes sir  it is part of this whole documentation MH yes it's been included in evidence today yes sir so  again I'm going ask legal so if we were to make a decision today for restitution in the amount  of the 13,000 and then ask them to come back if there are any more damages you know whether they  bring the paperwork or another subcontractor's you know backup document or another contractor then we  can relook at this on the dollar value I don't see why the board couldn't do that they have the  ability to make a decision now on some certain amount and then ask the the person to come back  with any other amounts that they can prove uh as those become available more evidence  yeah I'll ask the board if they feel comfortable with that I mean 1,000 we're not prolonging it  and you know then it's up to them to bring back more evidence to us in order to do it  and I think Justa the motion y i' I'll I'll make a motion for restitution in the amount of 13, 6877 and if there's any additional damages uh that they foresee or they  come across bring back evidence so they can show it to us and we can relook at  it I'll second second okay we have a motion a second any other discussion all in favor raise your right hand I'll oppose same sign seeing none  hear none motion is approved for restitution of $3,687 74 with the  ability for the owner to come back in the future with such evidence for it to be adjusted all right that concludes our agenda items for today thank you everyone for that short meeting there are  some snacks in the back if you didn't get any during the break time meeting journ