I guess ready. tomorrow.
Good morning and thank you so much for attending our board meeting today. Um, this meeting is officially called to order. Please turn your cell phones to the vibrating silence or off setting. The board of county commissioners allows any person to speak regarding an item on the agenda. The speaker is limited to three minutes unless otherwise determined by the chairperson to allow sufficient time for all speakers. Speakers are asked to refrain from abusive or pro-frame remarks, disruptive outbursts, protests, or other conduct which interferes with the orderly conduct of this meeting. Upon completion of the public forum comment, discussion is limited to board members and questions raised by the board.
Today, we do have about 30 speakers, so we will be limiting speakers to two minutes each. Um, and we will start this meeting off with the invocation. Commissioner May. Thank you, Madam Chair. Uh it's an honor today to introduce the senior pastor of the Greater Low Rock Baptist Church, Pastor Lenny Wesley, who will come forward uh to the do the invocation. Uh pastor, if you would come forward, it's um I think it's divine that Washington High School is here because I think your prayers took them to the state championship. So maybe your prayers will take us through this meeting today.
Let's pray. Our Father and our God, we bow in humble submission to your will and your way. Thank you, Lord. Thank you for the many blessings that you have bestowed upon us as a city, as a county, as a state. I ask your blessings and your continued hand around our commissioners and all of those who work with the county commissioners. We pray for peace. We pray for professionalism. We pray for patience. bless us to treat everybody right to do what's right and befitting in your
sight. In the name of Jesus we pray. Let all hearts say amen. Amen. Please join me. Please join me in the pledge. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for it stands one nation indivisible with liberty and justice for all. Thank you, Madam Chair. Pastor Wesley, thank you for all that you do. I think your wife was here a few weeks ago, but thank you for the great work that you're doing in District 3. Wonderful. Commissioner Coler,
anything to add to the agenda? Commissioner Barry, no. Commissioner May. No, Madam Chair. Commissioner Stroberger? No, ma'am. No. I have been alerted that um two of you need to leave early today. Do we need to move anything around on the agenda or do we feel like we can get through it? I think we can get through it. I have a hard stop between 11:15 and 11:30 for a family issue, but if you hear the chair, however, you want to adjust the most important items, but I will leave no later than 11:30. Okay, Commissioner, you think we can make it? All right, let's do it. Um, do I have an emotion? Do I have a motion? So move, madam chair. Second. All in favor? 50. Thank you.
Commissioner forum. Commissioner Kohler. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for coming today. I just have a few items I'd like to share with you the last few weeks. It's been a while since we met. Um, want to thank Captain Newman, the base coal. If you didn't know, last week or about two weeks ago, we had the Swedish ship here called the Gladian, and they didn't allow uh the public to come out there, but it was something that should have been in a movie, the tall ship, 46 sailors living on a tall ship. It was Navy ships are tight quarters if you've ever been on one. This was
unbelievable. But, um, they're touring around for the 250th year. the crew got to experience most of uh you know the base in Pensacola. So I just think that was a neat thing for us to have that ship here in NS Pensacola. So that was nice. Uh for those that don't know, March is uh Navy Marine Corps Relief Society Month for anyone that served you knew that. And Marine Corps Relief Society does a lot of help for obviously sailors, Marines, anyone in the military. And their total assistance in 2025 was a little over 1,164,000. helped about 1137 sailors. The only reason I bring this up
race I used to chair Rock and Fly gave around a4 million to that because of the force protection issues were dissolving the funds that we had and we gave them an additional $20,000 this week to help sailors and marines. So, the board's very happy to do that and I know it helped with their fundraising this month. Uh, Commissioner May and I the other day we were at BreitBridge Ministries. This is a group church over off West Strong Street that basically had helps people in
need people that were homeless. Shows them how to get some skills and trades. Most of the stuff I I saw was basically doing cooking and getting them in the uh customer ser or culinary industry and that was a very nice ribbon cutting. Very very very appreciative. And then I want to thank two people. Michael Rhodess, I don't know if I see him out there, and Matt Skipper. I really appreciate uh you coming out to Bio Davenport the other night when we did the briefs on the both Civotam Park as well as the Winthrop storm drainage. The um community was very thankful and
uh your expertise and participation. I can't thank you enough. That's all I have. Ma'am, thank you Madam Chair. Light of a number of agenda items and a couple of uh early departures. I'll try to be brief. Want to wish uh wish our colleague a happy birthday. Believe his birthday was on Monday. So that's Thank you, sir. Don't worry about the gift. You can get it to me after we retire. Yeah. All right. They are. I mean, when we retire more than 100. The
the gifts the gifts are pulling up. So, they're coming. They're they're they're coming. Um and the only other other thing I want to say the most important um uh birthday this week unfortunately to to no offense to my colleague uh my mother's birthday was yesterday so much much much more important it was uh uh about 10 years ago the same uh point time that my father passed she had uh uh quite a hard uh quite a hard spell and uh you know recovered recovered from that in a few months and
we've had a fantastic 10 years since then. So, it was uh uh it was great being able to uh celebrate celebrate another birthday with her yesterday. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you for those kind words. Uh Commissioner Barry, I remember last birthday, Commissioner Colola gave me a bag of red hats and make something great again. And so it it's still sitting in my Oh, that was T Schrober that gave me that in the head, but it's it's still sitting in my office. But
um we do appreciate it and and thank you for those kind words, but more importantly for me, uh March 20th, uh Steve, 20 years, uh my father was laid to rest and and so um um I I I send, you know, all my love and to my mom and my family. U because um in my opinion, you know, no offense, the greatest guy that I ever knew was my father. And so, uh 20 years ago, we left him. It doesn't matter if someone died 5 years ago, 5 days ago, 5 minutes ago. Uh if they're significant and they're a parent and they were important to you, it hurts just like it was yesterday. So
uh we go and so I had opportunity this past week and I want to thank Claire along uh for helping me along with Clarissa and um we had a icon of Brownsville. Uh many of you know Brownsville has become really a great hub. Mary Harmon who own Harmon's uh clothing store where she celebrated a hundred years of life. Uh and we were able to go out with her and present a proclamation and spent some time uh with Mary and uh to talk about uh the glory days of Brownsville of how it used to be and and now where it is. And so it was just inspiring that uh she was able to live to see us redevelop
uh Brownsville. And I I I see Michael Roland and and others who are working hard every day uh to make Brownsville vibrant uh again uh like it once was. And also we had the opportunity to be over at Echolife Church with Miss Alvina Wooten who also turned 100 years old who probably spent 70 years of her life educating children in Escambia County. And so uh it's a a great week to be able to go to two people who are 100 years old uh and attend their birthday party. and they both were cognitive and and and and welcoming and it was just a great time. I want to thank our PIO uh for being there.
Uh our PI part Andy did a a tremendous job of of being there. Uh as well as Casey, she helped out with Bright Bridges. Uh we talk about homelessness and we talk about opportunities uh to be over and Commissioner Coler, thank you for being there. over in Brownsville. Uh this week we were at uh Bright Bridges uh with Pastor Marcel Davis where they're going to be able to house another 50 or 60 men who are homeless uh right in the heart of of Brownsville. So we thank them. Certainly want to give Chip Crushenfield uh and his staff uh a a shout out uh and and the entire staff,
our engineering staff and our administrative staff for being with us this past week at Carponers Creek uh which has really become a model project of economic development, environmental protection and recreation uh on Olive Road. If you've not gone by uh Carpenters Creek, uh this program in in conjunction uh with restore dollars, state dollars, D dollars, county dollars, we've been able to restore that Carpenters Creek and certainly want to give a shout out to former commissioner of um district for uh Grover Robinson and former mayor for his help and also to Miss
uh Sher Myers. Uh finally, uh we they will begin the proclamation. Uh but oh, how sweet it is to win the state championship. We do have the Washington High girls basketball team with us uh and uh coach Jade Brown uh what and coach Jordan what they've done uh to bring this type of positive uh recognition to Pensacola, Florida that they were seeing all across this country. Uh when you talk about tourism dollars, you talk about economic development. You talk about someone who is highlighting Pensacola uh Washington High Booker T Washington High girls uh did that and I
want to commend and congratulate them. They will get a resolution. But young ladies, we are so glad that you are here. Uh, welcome to our board of county commissioner meeting. Thank you, Madam Chair. Commissioner Stroberger. Thank you, Madam Chair. So, today and all day is Red Cross dining for disaster day, the 26th of uh March. So, please go to a participating restaurant tonight or today. Those participating restaurants contribute 10% of their revenue for today uh to your local American Red Cross. If you're inclined to drive to Purto K, there's some participating restaurants
over there. Lillian's Pizza, the Sports Bar, Salty Pearl Raw Bar, Jellyfish, and Sunset. They're all um uh Dining for Disaster with the Red Cross. And if you see this poster, this flyer at a restaurant, they're supporting Dining for Disaster and the American Red Cross. I also want to thank Lamar Advertising, Steven Sanford for providing electronic billboards this week and last week to
help promote dining for disaster. It makes a big difference. I've been welcome to come back next year and we will do that. I will be back. Another way to support the Red Cross and the military is by donating to support uh service to the armed forces. You can donate at go.fox/redcross. Your donations support our military members and their families. Um, yesterday was National Medal of Medal of Honor Day. On this day, we honor the extraordinary courage and sacrifice of those who
showed uncommon valor and place duty and honor and country above everything. Their legacy reminds us that true valor is rooted in selfless service to others and to our nation. Um, did you say it's been 20 years since your dad passed? my dad passed on the March 31st, which is also my anniversary, wedding anniversary. It's uh that my dad will have passed 10 years ago. And and you don't know how much you miss those guys until they're gone. Yeah. So, my prayers are with Mike and your dad.
Thank you. Thank you all and thank you for being here this morning. Today, we have a full agenda full packed with improvements for our community. I want to thank the staff that has worked so hard getting these projects started and of course across the finish line. Today for district 4, we're voting to start the rehab for the multi-use path on Pensacola Beach. And for the entire community, we're voting to move forward with 10 new positions inside of EMS. I also want to take a minute to celebrate our CPR class that we held last week at the Fairy Pass Community Center. We had 50 people, over 50 people actually, come and learn life-saving
skills. This event was so successful that we are planning a second CPR class in April. So, please keep an eye out for the newsletter for that. Speaking of the District 4 newsletter, our April newsletter will have a link to survey. So, I encourage you to take time, fill out that survey, have your voices heard. It is a fill-in- thelank. So, we are looking for as much feedback as possible. Um, and I would appreciate anyone that would take the time to fill that out. Again, thank you so much for being here today. The next thing on our agenda is the proclamations. Do I
have a motion to adopt the proclamation? So move, Madam Chair. Do we have a second? All in favor? Okay. 50. Our first proclamation is going to be presented by Commissioner Stroberger. Okay, this is a long one. It's almost it's a long one for me. Okay. Escambia County proclamation. Whereas Escambia County has experienced severe weather in the past in the form of extreme
rainfall and tropical systems events resulting in flooding in both coastal and ravine areas. And this flooding has caused damage and flood losses to homes and buildings in all areas whether they are high-risisk high flood hazard areas or low to moderate risk flood zones. And whereas Escambia County is a volunteer participant in the National Flood Insurance Program that provides residents with the opportunity to protect themselves against flood loss through the purchase of flood insurance
and reduced insurance premiums rates as well as setting higher regulatory standards to reduce the flood risk and potential flood damage to their property. And whereas the reduction of loss of life and property damage can be achieved when the appropriate flood preparedness control and mitigation measures are taken before a flood. And whereas public education and awareness of potential weather hazards and methods of protection are critical to the health, safety,
and welfare of residents, the Florida Flood Plane Managers Associations have declared the week of March 9th through the 15th of 2026 Flood Awareness Week to promote and increase knowledge of flood risk, the available the availability of flood insurance, flood protection methods, and how to prepare for emergencies. Now and therefore be it proclaimed that the board of county commissioners of Escambia County, Florida do hereby declare the week of March 9th through the 15th of 2026
as flood awareness week in Escambia County and further encourage the citizens of Escambia County to increase their knowledge of how to protect themselves and their property from flooding. Signed by the board of county commissions county, Florida. Ashley Hofberger chairperson district 4. Steve Schroberger, vice chair, District 1. Michael S. Kohler, District 2, Lumman J. May, District Three, and Steven Barry, District 5. Thank you. You want to say a few words? I can. You can. Hi,
everyone. As uh Escami Countyy's flood plane manager, this type of outreach is crucial in getting our citizens discounts on their flood insurance. Um I don't know if you know, but we are a category 6, which saves our citizens 3.6 6 million annually in flood insurance premiums. So, thank you all for assisting us with this outreach. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Madam Chair. Yes, sir. Jennifer, uh, thank you for your work. I mean, I'm I'm saying it in front of your boss, but I don't know a harder worker or a more dedicated public servant, uh, than you, uh, in all of Scam County. Thank you for all you do. That birthday gift will come later, too. Thank you. Our next proclamation will be presented by Wesley Hall. Good morning commissioners and citizens. This proclamation it reads the scamley county proclamation. Whereas purchasing professionals play a significant role in
the efficient and effective operation of both government and business. And whereas in Escambia County Office of Purchasing is responsible for the acquisition of equipment, materials, supplies, and services vital to the community operations, facilities, and infrastructure that contribute to the high quality of life for all residents. And whereas the office of purchasing adds value to the procurement process by re-engineering, developing and implementing innovative, efficient and cost-effective procedures,
practices. And whereas purchasing professionals execute administrative contracts, develop and improve procurement strategies, and cultivate strong working relationships with vendors and county departments. And whereas the public the public procurement professionals serving in Scamia County, Florida are responsible for ensuring compliance with court county ordinance, state statutes, and federal regulations for purchasing totals hundreds of millions of dollars annually. And whereas when called upon, government procurement professionals work on
demanding conditions to meet urgent challenges and secure critical materials, resources, and personal protection equipment for frontline workers, contributing to the county's rapid response to the needs of the citizens. Whereas through the observance of purchasing month, NIGAP seeks to seeks to expand awareness of the vital procurement professionals served in the government of the elected officials and the general public and business leaders. Now therefore be it proclaimed that the board of county commission of the Samia County plotter hereby proclaims the month of March
for purchasing month. Ashley Hosberger's chair. Stephen Sturberg, vice chair. Michael Coler, District 2. Lumman J. May, District 3. Steven Barry, District 5. And before I turn this over to Lindsay, the director of purchase, I want to say it's been an honor to watch Purchasing develop over the years. It was for a long time it was at the bottom of our department list. And now we're probably one of the top two or three departments we have. And that's because of leadership,
hard work, and the transition that we've gone through. It hadn't been easy, but it's it's it's been a very successful operation. And I think we do a great job in helping all the citizens as well as all the departments. And now I'm going to turn it over to Lindsay and let her take it over. Good morning. I just want to take a couple of minutes and brag on my team for a second. Since October 1st, this small group of people has processed 60 solicitations, almost 1,200 POS. We have all of us obtained our Florida certified contract management
course which is required by state statute. Uh three of us have acquired and two are in the application process of the Florida certified contract negotiator course. We are building up our vendor registry. We do how to do business events and reverse trade shows. And I could not be more proud to lead this group. Thank you.
Thank you all. Commissioner May, you have the next proclamation. Coach Jay Brown in Washington High girls, please join me here at the podium. I heard Coach Brown say who we be. Book a T. Y'all come on up. Can't get hit and get hurt. We need you. What an honor to be here. Uh had the opportunity to know
most of these young ladies uh since they've been playing little league and uh what an honor for Pensacola uh to go and win the state championship and to coach Jay Brown. So, uh, uh, get the opportunity to do a lot of proclamations. This is probably one that's most near and dear to my heart because, uh, the young ladies here are the future. Uh, they're not just basketball players, uh, but they are academic scholars. Their community service, uh, they work within the community. Uh, they make a difference and they make all of us proud. Not just the Wildcat, Bookat, Washington Wildcat family, but all of Pensacola. So whereas the lady girls basketball team has
demonstrated outstanding excellence, discipline, and perseverance throughout the 2025 2026 season, finishing with an exceptional overall 243 record and achieving an impressive 19 w 19game winning streak in making history in Pensacola, Florida, and across the in Pensacola and across the state of Florida. Whereas the team accomplished the ultimate distinction of being crowned the class 5A state champions, marking the program first state title since 2000 and the fifth state championship in the school's history. Whereas the Lady Cats senior class has demonstrated sustained excellence
by earning their third conse consecutive district championship while advancing to the regional championship. The team has achieved number one ranking entering the district state playoff and overall number two ranking in class 5A of the regional championship. Whereas the Lady Cats have set a new standard of excellence under the leadership of coach Jade Brown, who's obtained a 200th career victory this season, marked a historic milestone as the first African-American and first female head coach in the program history to win a state championship. Amen.
Whereas the team success is a direct result of the exceptional mentoring and guidance of the coaching staff led by coach Jane Jay Brown including coach Clarence Dominique Jordan, coach Janelle Jones who played for me and coach Christian Smith. Whereas the student athletes that make up the Lady Cats teams not only shine on the court but have also demonstrated consistent academic excellence maintaining a GPA above 3.2 living. Amen. Yes. Give it up for these ladies.
Coach Jade Brown motto is simply don't get outworked. Whereas the historically successful season would have been possible without the commit commitment, discipline, and determination of students such as Jade Clarity, Amari Hall, Reyes Smith, Ny Brooks, Samaria Johnson, Ka Williams, Zakari Williams, Kayn Thomas, Kylie Gordon, Jasmine Cornet, Naomi Madison, Shamar Francis, and I know I mispronounced some of those names. Um, now therefore, be it proclaimed that the board of county commissioners of Escamia County celebrates and recognizes the players, coaches, and the all the supporters in this community of the
Lady Cats girls basketball team for their extraordinary achievement and exceptional success in representing Pensacola all across this country. Be it further proclaimed that the Lady Cats basketball team is honored for their historic 2025 2026 class A state championship season. Board of County Commissioner Ashley Hoffberger, uh, chair Steven Stroberger, vice chair, Michael Kler, District 2, Lumen J. May, District 3, Steven Barry, District 5. Congratulations, Lady Cats.
Oh, do I love them? Come here. This is your district. Would you come down? It is your district. And uh I I I got to know these girls, but uh I I love Washington Book of T, but it is in your district. You want to say something? Good morning. How's everybody doing today? I know you guys have a long meeting ahead of you. How you doing, Miss Childers? Please tell Lauren and Brian I said, "Hey, I taught your kids in my psychology class years ago." Um, but I just want to say thank you. Uh first of all
to you know first of all God because without this season without him this season wouldn't have been possible. We had a lot of ups and downs that we go through through the course of the season but our motto is don't get outworked. We may not be the biggest might be the quickest but if we can outwork you we can beat you. And I know that's something that you guys probably can use as a motto as well. Um outworking individuals. So again we really truly thank you. Um, Commissioner May, I want to thank you for everything that you do in the community, especially for athletics since I've been a kid. Um, you know, you've been a pillar in our community supporting student athletes,
but also a mentor to me. You know, I've had to call you to ask you about leadership advice. So, to know that you're a phone call away has been uh impeccable in my leadership position, not only as a girls basketball coach, but the athletic director at Booger T. Washington High School. But the community support has been tremendous um for our young ladies and we want to continue to represent not only Booker T Washington High School but Pensacola, Florida. We have some wonderful young ladies. We have some wonderful students at our school. So again, thank you for allowing us to be here. Uh we won a state championship, but these are moments that these young ladies will never forget. Not a lot of people get these opportunities to
come in their community and get recognized. So again, from the bottom of my heart, thank you. Um on behalf of my administration at my school, we thank you again. Um, and one of our players, um, she has a few words as well. You'll probably hear about her in the future. She is Shamaya Francis, the number one ranked player, um, in her class for 2026 in the state of Florida. She has she has signed uh, a full scholarship to play at Florida State University. She cho
so the community will be seeing about her and hearing about her a lot. Thank you. Hi everyone. Good morning. Thank you for having us here. Uh I want to speak on behalf of my teammates. Um it took a long time to get here. Uh speaking from experience, I started here at Booker Ty Washington High School since I was a freshman. And I first told Coach Brown that I wanted to get this program back to where it used to be when Coach Bond left it. So to be able to accomplish this thing with such a fond group of teammates that I have behind me is
uh unimaginable actually. Um the model that we live by don't get out work. It will live with uh live in us forever and we'll try to preach it to our peers as much as possible. So to be able to accomplish this thing with these teammates is just great. I don't I'm actually speechless to this day. But I just want to thank you all for having me up here and having my teammates here and congratulating us on such a hard thing. So, thank you.
I think that's my favorite proclamation ever. That was awesome. Thank you. It it it was good. And um let me say unfortunately ladies I tried to make this go long so y'all wouldn't have to go back to class but I do understand y'all that Superintendent Leonard said y'all had to come back to class. So I mean I'm sorry but certainly um you have our full support uh and when we think about things I often times people come down and uh we talk about Sunb Belt Tournament and the money we spend on marketing to market this or we we talk about American magic and we we because
we get to put our name on a sailing boat. No one has brought more goodwill to this community than those ladies traveling and going throughout. They have that. No one has. And so I do want to thank my colleagues. I do thank my colleagues for supporting uh we've supported uh this program probably for the last 10 to 12 years. Uh and we we've done it. And certainly I want to make sure uh that we continue to support this. Uh I would ask staff to work with the clerk to make sure that uh the funding that was voted 50 to help support these girls because many of them come from single
family homes. Many of them don't have what American Magic has. They don't have what Sunb Belt has. Uh and I think this board allocated $1,000. Uh and certainly we do a lot more than that. Uh but we want to make sure that that is taken care of. And I would just ask the clerk, id ask the administration uh to make sure that we process this because there's no more of a greater community good than these young ladies advertising Pensacola, not in just this state, but across this country. So if you watch the Sunshine Station, uh and they were on there and if you saw the views, million of views of these young ladies, you couldn't pay for
that advertisement for Escamia County and for Pensacola. So on behalf of me, young ladies, thank you for putting Pensacola back on the map for girls basketball. Thank you so much. Wonderful. The next item on our agenda is written communications. We have three items. Uh we do have two speakers for item number three. Commissioner Caller, item one's in your district. Yeah. Through I mean obviously the question on this is it hasn't been paid. So I I think they need to pay the the fine. So my motion
is to keep it as it is. No one's here to speak on it. Correct. On item one. Yep. That is correct. All right. Yeah. My my motion is to So, do you just want to drop the item? I want to drop the item. Yeah. So, I make a motion to drop right in Commission One. All in favor. Okay. 50. Thank you. Item number two, Commissioner Barry, this is in your district. Yes, ma'am. And you said there are speakers on item three, but not on the others. That is correct. Yes, sir. Um so on item two, so this is a property that we have uh that has uh has already been fixed uh cleaned up, you know,
etc., etc. The uh uh the hard costs were already recovered from uh the gentleman's sister when she came before the board last year. And this is uh just because of the cross uh the crossing of the way that leans get applied to uh to properties that were inherited and and then there's common ownership AC amongst other properties. Anyway, um there's nothing further that needs to be recovered uh from this property or related to this property. So I would move that the board grant the relief
uh as requested by Mr. Phillips. Okay. Do we have a second? Second. All in favor? Five. Thank you. And then item number three, our first speaker is Tracy. And then Robert, you'll be next. Do you want to reverse it? Robert, you want to go first? Okay. Thank you, Tracy. I am neither an attorney nor professional orator. Public speaking is not my stock
and trade. So, forgive me if I read from my notes. Good morning, commissioners. Thank you for granting me this opportunity. I recognize demands of your role and appreciate your dedication. Really do. I know it seems like a thankless job at times, but let me say thank you for all your hard work. I'm not here to contest a county's authority or your judgment. My concern lies solely with the administration of code enforcement in my
case you mentioned at 95A. Um, an agreement was made with uh um the code enforcement abatement officer and be um I had um four weeks uh I had to fix a truck that was going to take two weeks but a prior to the abatement date um the contractor started removing my property.
um November 1st um of 2022 was the abatement date. Abatement was completed, my property removed, and no v no violations have recurred. A subsequent charge of $7,000 $7,000 stemmed from a single tractor bearing the uh slowmoving triangle um emblem on the back. And that's precisely um what um state law demands. I always try to live by the law and stay compliant. Um I
guess no one's perfect. Everybody has room for improvement. I certainly do the best I can and don't want to cause a blight or isore for any of my neighbors in the community. Believe me, those women up in Cantoma, they don't put up with a lot. So try to stay on their good side. Um, the weave's tough. Donald Trump makes it look easy doing the weave. It's not. Um, let's see. Where was I? Yet, the lean has escalated to approximately $26,000 encompassing
abatement fees, daily penalties, court cost, and interest. This has resulted in losses exceeding $100,000 in equipment and business viability. by company is now insolvent unfortunately. Florida statute 16202 mandate. Robert, I'm sorry. Our time's not working. Your time is up. Um Tracy, did you want to speak? Thank you. Yes, sir. Thank you so much. We appreciate it. And you're right. It is hard public speaking. Thank you for coming up. Good morning. I'm Tracy Nikolai with Epic
Reality. I've had the pleasure of representing Mr. Carlson for about the last three years. Um we had a sale on the property and it didn't proceed. Um we do have a new buyer for the property and she has amazing plans for Kento. 29.95 is going to become a nursery. She has plans for a garden where people can get a cup of coffee and sit in the garden and look at all the surroundings. Um she has been actually clearing the property in order to help Mr. Carlson out. Um, I'm very thankful for
her. She is a Canadian that is going to become an American. She loves our country and needs to get out of Canada. So, I would just ask for grace from Mr. Carlson. He has done his best. Um, but the future of this property is going to be a huge improvement for 29.95. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Thank you, Madam Chairman. Um, and Mr. Carlson's not entirely uh he's not entirely wrong about what went on uh during the summer and fall of 2022. I think there was some uh you know
I think there was some miscommunication or maybe some lack of uh lack of effective communication um you know with him related to uh related to some of the issues out there. And uh you know in in light of that and things are certainly up to uh uh things are certainly up to code now and have been for several years. Um so the county currently has we have two cases um uh two cases that have financial uh have financial repercussions right now. Two cases that have leans. What I would ask
is that the board um wave the administrative fines and fees that are related to the two cases. And um where did Mr. Carlson go? Oh, he's in the back. Okay. So, and you know, as I mentioned to you on the phone in the past, uh Robert, the the fines and leans or the fines and fees, the the board does have a lot of latitude with that. um with the hard cost or the abatement cost.
Those are the those are the dollars that the uh that the public has paid out whether um you know whether it was expended in a way that was really in great uh you know in great public service as far as the lack of communication between yourself and maybe some of the code enforcement officers. That's certainly a possibility. But the fact is still that the public paid uh the public paid for abatement of the property. So those those costs do have to be recovered. So
the there's three components of hard cost related to the two cases. We've got a court cost of $250, a court cost of $235, and we have an abatement expense of $17,500. That accumulates to $17,985 that will need to be collected. the other $10,250. The special magistrate reduced the administrative fines by 12,000 when the case went before uh went before them. I'm certainly
willing to ask my colleagues to wave the other 9,000 related to the first case as well as the $1,50 related to the second case. Um but the we would still need to collect 17985 and that would release the property fully. Uh that's my that's my motion. Madam Chairman, I'll second that. All in favor? Okay. 50. Wonderful. Thank you. That concludes Thank you. That concludes the written communication portion. Did the clerk's office receive proofs of publication for the public
hearings on the agenda and the board's weekly meeting schedule? Madame Chair, the clerk's office has received all proofs. Wonderful. Thank you. Do I have a recommendation that the board wave the reading of Move to wave the reading? Do we have a second? Second. All in favor? 5. Thank you, Madame Clerk. The clerk and controllers report, please. Sure. We have um let's see, three items, four items on the agenda. The first one has to do with our annual comprehensive financial report. Um I will remind you that this is a fivemonth audit where we have auditors daily in our office. I want
to thank Sharon Herrell, my finance director, as well as my audit manager and staff and your staff. Thank you very much for the time and the response that you give to my staff trying to get through a financial audit. Um it is a clean opinion. There are some outstanding issues that we'll be working on this year. I can get with you chair as well as other departments. Uh the second is the collections of our TDT. Um this is the January stays and we are still outpacing last year by 2%.
The third is acceptance of documents that we provided with filings. The fourth is minutes and reports. I need acceptance on that, but I would like to address Booker T. Washington with four kids that went to Bush Booker T Washington. I um was there for eight years raising funds for every sport because my kids played every sport including basketball. I was also the chairman on a search committee to bring Charlie Ward as a football coach. Um, my heart is with Booker T. The coach
has taught my kids. Um, however, as a clerk, um, my decision stands. I've put it in writing. I've made statements as to what our property taxes in the general fund should pay. This is not what we pay. I hope that all of you can write a personal check. Most of you in this room make a pretty good income. Most of you in this DAS do as well. This is where our community steps up and contributes to schools. Um, I would also uh like to offer that uh Sheriff Simmons collects money um from
drug bust sells cars that they get. It's called law enforcement trust fund. That's the bad guys monies. That's the money that you can use to fund this. The board of county commissioners rule over this fund. They give the approval to the sheriff. I would encourage you to speak to the sheriff to get money and approve that money and I will too to Booger T. Washington. Thank you. I need approval for four items. But I'm going to respond to you because I I I I said that and so Pam, here's the
reality of it. We do spend a lot of money whether it's Sunb Belt or whether it's American Magic and people say they're bringing um recognition to this town. We spent a lot of money. Here's the inconsistency, Pam. We voted on it. It's a thousand dollars. It's for kids who have been on national television representing Escamia County. Kids are in need, a common good, and we've paid it for the last 10 to 12 years. Now, all of a sudden, we have had these young ladies to anticipate that they had community support and we snatched it right under them. It's not about the thousands
because you're absolutely right. Many of us have written thousand checks and I have too. But to be inconsistent and to do it for 10 to 12 years, spam, is wrong in my opinion. And this board voted upon it and it should have been executed. And so what I've asked the administrator and the at the lawyer to do is at some point stand up and get us an attorney general opinion. If it's wrong, Pam, I'm good. If it's if it's not best practices, then let's not do it. But let's not lead people on. Let's not lead them on and tell them that they're going to get something that they're not going to get. So I'm good. I respect you, clerk, if if it's if it's not the proper protocol. But give me
something. give me a precedent because you can't tell me that we've done something for 15 years, then all of a sudden we wake up one day and then it's wrong. Well, I mean, that's wrong. I mean, you can't do that. I mean, and so that's my point. And maybe maybe it's not right, but we did it for 15 years. And we spend more on travel when people in your department than $1,000 for 20 girls to go to Jacksonville. That's uncomfortable to me. I mean, that's to me that's not right. And I'm not going to uh say it is right and talk about getting it from Chip. We did we we
did it consistently and if it was wrong, we should retroactively go back and get every dime that we dispensed to any organization throughout those 15 years because if it was wrong, we should go back and take call back all the dollars that we spent that were wrong. If it was wrong, if it's right, then we should pay it. And so I'm willing to not have this debate in in a public forum to have a talk. I'm not an attorney. I It's not on you, Pam. I'm asking staff to give me an opinion of whether it's wrong or whether it's right. I'm not gonna be hypocritical and bring some young ladies down here
and offer them support and then pull the support back. That's not right. And so I appreciate it because you and I have been I knew your kids at Washington. I coach your kids. We've been together a long time. Pam from NEP. Uh but we're having this is probably we're going to spend more than $1,000 of staff time making this determination. But we I just want the determination because what's good for Washington should be good for what happened at Tape should happen at Scamia. all these high schools have gotten some money and so we're not going to make Washington High School some young African-American young ladies the guinea pig of where we're not going to pay when we pay the other ones and so that's that's my point and that's the only thing I ask you to
do Alison and Mr. administrator to go just give us his opinion. If it's wrong, let's just cut it out. That's all I ask. Thank you, Madam Chair. I wasn't planning on talking on this, but I do think we need to move forward. In the 67 counties in the state of Florida, you elect commissioners. Those commissioners decide public p purpose of funds. That's the way it works. It works everywhere in the state. Commissioner May is absolutely right. I've had a good relationship with the clerk for years, but I totally believe in balance government. I think she's overreached her bounds.
I do not understand how you can stand up and for 12 years pay something and then get religion and not do it. That is ridiculous. Madame clerk, you own that. That's a million half dollars you signed off of. You don't get to escape that. You got to own it and tell people you either failed paying it for 12 years and then got religion or say you were the worst clerk in the state. It's a fact. This has got to get resolved. We I went with you on community support funds. You did not help me. We need You're a licensed professional like me. You have a board of your peers that needs to
tell us if we're licensed and your practices are normal. I don't know if they are. They wouldn't be normal in my world to do something for 12 years. I wouldn't have an accountant like that. I'd get rid of them. But I'll just say you caused this, you have that fight. I don't really care about discretionary funds, but I do care about public purpose and the people that vote for us to decide how the money's entertained. So, I think we need to have a further discussion on this. I don't think this should have been here today, but um I am never going to give up ever my
right as a budgetary person on this board for anything unless it's against statute. Never. Mr. Kohler, I hear your words. my decision stands. Thank you. Thank you. I'm gonna throw my opinion out there, too. I feel like there's a lot of things that when we have more information and we have more examples, when we know better, we do better. 10 years ago, we all gave our kids Red D 40 and we ate the Cheetos and we drank all the Kool-Aid with all
the dyes in it. All that's coming out. Where's Larry DS? Where's Larry DS? At some point, we all vaccinated our kids and now we're getting away from that. The more information we have and the more data that we have, it is no longer mandated. It is no longer mandated. So, you have the right to do whatever you want to do. And I agree with that. But as we have better information, we take better action. So, um, if you abuse your children for 10 years and then they come, I mean, you don't get the escape that you abuse your children. That's that's unfair. That's that's an
unfair comparison. Uh and and so you we're going to fund nothing against American magic. I like it. Nothing against cell basketball. All of the You're telling me that we don't sponsor things in terms of promotions and bringing things to Escambia County? What better marketing tool than you had? Do you do do we want to take visits budget and break it down? How many billboards they bought, how many TV commercials they bought? That was a walking billboard across this state. It was and it was a it was a benefit for not just those girls for everyone. That is a prime example
of and so you're right. This is not the time to have the discussion because quite frankly don't pay it. I don't care. Commissioner May pay it out of TDT not that was the original discretion that we had. That's how that's how it all started for market. I I don't care how you pay it Pam. We should just pay it. And so what we what we've done Pam we've resubmitted it multiple times. Multiple times. And so we said, "Well, it doesn't work this way, Alison. Create a new rule. Submit it again." I don't know. I'm I'm not the technical one. I'm not getting paid to be the Well, tell us how to submit it to get it. Send me the email of how
to submit it in TVF funds. I was pretty clear. Send me the email and we'll submit that. CD. I'm not sending you an email. Tell me how Tell me how to submit it to you. We We submitted it multiple times to you. You just don't want to pay it. I'm not going to pay it out of jail. I don't care if you don't pay it. What I'm telling you is wrong. Okay. Period. I don't care if you pay it. my decision. I mean, yeah. Well, you're great. It doesn't matter if you're great. But you're wrong. Because you don't like me. Don't take it personally on those kids. We have had one speaker sign up for the meeting um for the meeting minutes. Larry DS. Yes, sir. Madam Chairman. Oh,
yes sir. I apologize. And you know, I certainly agree with my colleague on colleagues on either side. Um, and I don't think the example of what we, you know, of of things that were done with the with, you know, with dyes or eating Cheetos, I I don't think that's the same as I don't think that's the same as what we're discussing. The, uh, you know, those probably have to do with scientific discoveries or or or things that have changed over the years. And I don't know that the
law has changed over the years up here. I mean these these were these were discretionary items that were paid for uh for many many years and you know often u I don't know if it would be the majority but I think it's a very large portion if it's not the majority of the discretionary items have been related to uh what I think is our greatest partner which is the school district you know they've been for they've been for basketball teams they've been for baseball teams they've been for softball boosters and uh for you know staff recognition at schools I mean the
uh you If you talk to if you talk to people at uh you know in leadership at schools and and in the administration there's just they they don't have the ability to you know to fund all these things. And you know we've had to support travel. I know one of the things that my discretionary fund has supported over the years was travel to state tournament for uh travel to state tournaments for basketball teams and baseball teams and football teams and you know because the schools just don't have it. I mean, schools are funded with public money and um it was never, you know,
it was never an issue. It was never an issue until it was. So, I think we do need some I I think, you know, we do need some resolution, but I I don't know that the example of uh you know, of the of children's nutrition or vaccines is is the same as what we're discussing up here. But, uh I do move the clerk's report. We still need to take that action. Uh we we do have a speaker that signed up last minute. Larry DS, you signed up to speak towards the minutes.
Larry DS Jr. Hold on. Let me let me get that right. I got a little carried away there. I almost almost jumped the gate. Larry DS Junior Plumbing LLC because FEL matters. All right, let's do it. Let's get into it. Uh just a little bit about the uh you know this here was in Friday's paper. Uh it's a federal judge's ruling slows the Santis' push against vaccines. Can y'all believe that? It
has to do with the public Gary Sansing approving of the minutes. So I'm talking about the the Gary Sansing portion of it where people get to say what they want. And I would like for y'all to not cut our time down anymore anymore. No matter what, I don't care if there's 100 people in here. We should not be cutting our time down to 2 minutes or 1 minute. Should always get three minutes. And uh you know before I run out of time, I'm probably going to run out of time. I'm
going to finish those three things. I'm going to finish those three things if it kills me. Uh, number nine, taxpayers are deserving of the most courteous and attentive treatment that you can give them. Number 10, taxpayers are the people who make it possible for your salary to be paid. Number 11, taxpayers are a vital part of this government and every division thereof. That's that's from uh Bubba. That's our our tax appraiser. This is this is his 11 commandments.
Y'all should go by these commandments. Every division thereof should go by these commandments. This is very important because the taxpayers are the whole reason that any of this exists. And if we can't make it better for them to come up here and express their concerns, their frustrations without being silenced or interrupted, then we we're lost. Thank you. I believe Commissioner Barry made a motion and then Commissioner
Maid second it to move the clerk's report. Does that still stand? Okay. All in favor? Commissioner May is technically out but he made the motion. Are we still good? Or does somebody else need a second? We're still good. Okay. Passes 40 with Commissioner May off the dis. Um okay. The county administrator's report. Debbie, there are 13 items on the technical public service consent agenda. There are no changes and I believe there are speaker no speakers.
There are no speakers. That is correct. We have no speakers on the county administrators consent agenda. Do we move the consent agenda? All in favor? Okay. 40 with Commissioner May off the dis. Um the budget and finance consent agenda. There are 42 items on the budget finance consent agenda. There are no changes and there are no speakers. Move the move the budget and finance. All in favor? Okay. 40 with commissioner May out. Thank you. There's one item for
discussion. It's a recommendation concerning the acquisition of a portion of real property located at 9750 Sydney Road through the defense infrastructure grant program. We have no speakers. Sergeant. All in favor? 40 with Commissioner Mayout. Thank you. And that brings us to the county attorney's report. There are five action items on the county attorney's report. Item one needs to be held for separate vote
because there are options for the board. I can answer any questions on the other four. We only have speakers for item one. If somebody would like to move two through five second. All in favor 40. Thank you. Item one, Madame Chair, this is the OFF8 purchase agreement and the question to the board is whether or not to allow for an amendment to the PSA. I
urge you to look at the recommendation in that the vote needs to be either for A, B, and C or D or E. So if you're voting to amend the purchase agreement, I need you to vote for all A, B, and C. Okay. Thank you. We have several speakers. We have nine signed up for this. Do we have any discussion prior to speakers or shall we start with speakers? Okay. John Moore, you'll be first. And Colin Gold, you will be after John Moore.
Good morning. Mr. Henderson has produced an inspiring concept for OF8. I personally hope to see it brought to life very soon. Today, you're being asked to approve a complete rewrite of an existing contract worth hundreds of millions of dollars to a developer with zero community input. Not only is this unreasonable, it raises serious questions about how this process has been conducted so far. The drastic alteration of this contract isn't a modification. It's a material change. Florida law is clear that material changes to competitively bid contracts require rebidding,
especially on a scale of this magnitude. It requires the existing contract be declared void and the bidding process resumed. Bypassing this corrective action potentially leads to exhausting litigation, circumventing progress for years. All of you have stated your priorities as maximum ROI and jobs. WF Hos and Florida West have both told you jobs and development are pixie dust and unicorn farts. They never guaranteed. They're never a guaranteed metric. Based on your own expedited termination of the previous developer's efforts, it must be be now that it's down to dollars upfront. If you approve this new contract today,
your actions smack of confusion or hypocrisy despite the inveable legal challenges. How will each of you explain to your constituents why you would each accept a $5 million cut per district? If Mr. Henderson is unwilling or unable to meet the contracted financial obligations that you approved. I respectfully recommend that the board table this item, seek an independent legal opinion, and if warranted, rebid this project openly and fairly. Lastly, this morning is a great opportunity for officers who have accepted maximum campaign contributions from developers and their
partners with matters before you today to declare such. While campaign contributions are not gifts, the Florida Commission on Ethics has stated that large campaign contributions while the contributor has matters before an officer present legitimate ethics concerns and even the appearance of conflict should be avoided. Will the affforementioned commissioners declare these tens of thousands of dollars today on the record and recuse themselves from discussions and votes on this matter? Thank you, John. Your time is up, if only for the sake of transparency and people are watching. Colin, thank you. You're next. And then Bruce Van Vandenberg,
you will be after Colin. Um, and just to clarify, Allison, this was not a competitive bid process, correct? What we have done with this is we have exercised home rule economic development powers. There have been some RFPs out there for the OOLF8 acquisition. At this time, I would say you are not under one of those. You have proceeded with your home rule economic development powers as uh illustrated by the resolution the board adopted at the time we entered into the PSA for this
particular potential purchaser. Wonderful. Thank you. I appreciate that clarification. Colin, thank you for your patience. Yes, Colin Gold Avenue to Real Pensacola. Good morning, commissioners. I'm here to ask you to reject the amended TriW proposal for the OF8 property. The developer claims this new agreement is a coordinated approach that allows the county to enjoy the economic upside of an innovation district while they execute the rest of the site with clear feasibility. I want to address that framing directly because it misrepresents the financial
reality of this deal. In real estate, feasibility means low risk and immediate cash flow. By carving out the 171 acres dedicated to the employment district, the developer is insulating themselves from the hardest, most expensive part of the master plan. They're asking to keep the highly profitable residential and retail portions while handling the speculative infrastructure heavy land back to the taxpayers. That is not a coordinated approach. That is socializing the risk and privatizing the profit. The promise of long-term economic upside for the county is an illusion. An innovation district requires heavy public infrastructure, high-capacity roads,
oversized water lines, and upgraded utilities. If the county takes this land back, you are taking on millions of dollars in immediate debt and long-term maintenance liabilities for the mere hope that corporate tenants might show up one day to pay for them. Furthermore, carving out a third of the property for an isolated employment center sacrifices much neededed housing. As we all know, this area needs abundant mixeduse development to keep living costs in check. Segregating 171 acres strictly for commercial use forces a car dependent design. It guarantees more traffic on NM road and mandates massive surface parking lots rather than homes. If TriW cannot make the math
work on the original cohesive master plan, the county should not bail them out by absorbing the least profitable land. Please reject the $14 million price cut and the 171 acre carveout. Hold the developer to the original agreement or walk away and find partners willing to build the financially productive mixeduse neighborhood this county actually needs. Thank you for your time. Thank you, Colin. Bruce, you're up next. And John Kellis will be after Bruce.
Good morning. Bruce Freedenberg, 4550 lasasier, uh, longtime native and 35 year in the banking industry in in this market. Um, I wanted to speak to the issue today um, in terms of, you know, what's getting said about, you know, the cost. um speaking from somebody who has been involved with hundreds of millions of dollars in development in this area in terms of financing it uh as well as you know uh personal development uh for my own portfolio. I don't know that anybody in this room you know can except for maybe the developer who is uh has control of the contract
at the moment can possibly understand the level of risk that are associated with this type of a development. you know, it's almost uh immeasurable in terms of what the risk is you're going to take on. This project exceeds I would venture to say that this project would exceed the largest project that we have seen to include the Pensacola Bay Area bridge. That's how sizable this thing will uh in total volume it will uh get to. and to ask a developer to put their life's work
at risk for this project in northern Scambia County um without having some expectation of success or partnership uh you know with the public is um is going to be a tough ask and um triumph you know is there a once- ina-lifetime opportunity you know for for this community uh a lot of counties across uh the eight uh disproportionately affected counties counties have been taking advantage of this funds. I don't know that Scambia County has one
successful application that's been funded and uh and this would certainly be uh a great way for us to put money into this, reduce the risk and and move this thing along. Um it's been a long long path. You've got a successful developer who's proven their success uh time and again locally and across the country and we just got to get going. get the people of Bula, you know, what they've asked for in terms of the mixed use and make sure we have jobs for those folks. Thank you, Bruce. We appreciate that. John, you're up. John Kellis and then David Bear, you'll be after John.
I see the Navy hat, sir. Thank you for your service. You're welcome. My lose my voice a lot, but I'll do my best. You probably like it when I lose it a lot. Um, to me, I've been doing this for a long time. I just haven't been up here for a while. I've had other things to deal with. So, it's another sequel to all F8 issue or a sequel to many sequels,
but it's very important to me and our community. I've been watching what TriW and Chad Henderson have been presenting online and I have to say I really like a lot of it. I'll digress shortly. Uh last Sunday I was watching the basketball game. and I got all worked up and
and organized to watch the my team play. And I wanted to be prepared and have everything come out right. And one of the main things to me was this pizza that I ordered. Well, the darn thing showed up and I excitedly opened the box after the driver left and there it was. All the ingredients were in there, but it was a nightmare. Whoever chopped it up really chopped it
up. There were small pieces, big pieces, but there were some pieces didn't even go to the center. And so you had a piece of pie with a little dangly thing on the end. You couldn't even hold it up. Well, now we're getting our pizza delivered from Tri W and Chad and I'm not certain what the outcome will be with this extra county. Your your time is up. We appreciate your comments so
much. Thank you. David Bear, you're up. And Chris Plate, you'll be up. Thanks, John. We get the gist of what you're saying. And I hate when my pizza gets messed up. That is a pet peeve. Agreed. Good morning. I'm David Bear. Thank you for this opportunity to speak to you and thank you for your consideration of the amendment to this purchase agreement. Uh I believe that this county uh has indicated that they do want job creation and opportunities on that pro excuse me on that
property. It has supported the master plan uh for the creation of this town center. Uh and we have a cla first class developer ready to go to develop this property. Uh what you're as being asked to do today is consider keeping the portion of this property public uh for its development to enable that property to get the use of uh Triumph GF Coast funds. I've stood before you
before. I've asked you to bifurcate this land uh for that opportunity. Uh those funds were uh Triumph Gulf Coast was specifically created for these types of opportunities. This county uh within Escambia County, there have been plenty of Triumph grants uh that have been awarded, but not one of them for Triumph Gulf Co for Escambia County. you guys requested the funds for this project uh and it made it through the first phase of Triumph's uh process because you knew that that
property needed Triumph funds to help with that development for the infrastructure for that area. Uh and that was without a plan. You now have a master plan, a developer who has put together and spent a lot of time and resources on this opportunity. And we're going to see amazing things out of that developer for this property and for our county for generations to come. And this is a great opportunity to uh leverage this uh these triumph funds uh and work with the developer,
work with your uh county's economic development group and and make this a win for our community. So, thank you for this opportunity. Madam Chair, can can I ask a question since uh Mr. Bear was the Triumph president and I I have just a couple questions that concern me. Uh David, did Triumph ever do any clawback and any of the other ones if the jobs didn't come there while you were or have they done that? I don't even know. They have not done any clawbacks. There have been times where some of the projects were not on schedule because you know we went through COVID and
um excuse me with some of the construction. There was obviously for a couple of years we had um you know problems with accessing uh supply chain logistics and so they did they they were amanable to extending timelines to allow the opportunity uh to be successful. Triumph wants to deploy the money to try to help create the jobs, create workforce development, uh, etc. What its mission is, and that board does not want to do any of these clawbacks. They will have, they will do
them if they have to, but they want to work with the county, the city, whoever the applicant is, uh, to make it successful. And so that's what they've done in the past. They've never once had to do a club. that that's important to me because I mean obviously if the county had to pay back money because we didn't get the jobs that would not look good for this board down the road. So, all right. Thank you for answering that. And I have a a follow-up question. Do you still sit on the PEDC board or you did it one time? I've never been on PEDC. I'm on the Florida West board. Are any of Who's on PEDC? Okay. So, Oh, I'm not. He is. When we say publicly held, does that
have to be county held or can it be PEDC held? Either. Either. Okay. Okay. Thank you so much. I'd like to take part with PEDC. Perfect. And and recently we had the there's a there was a triumph there was a triumph award for a project at Ellison Field within the last couple of years and uh that property is PEDCL and that has been a successful project and it seems to be working well and we're two or three years into that. And if it's held by PEDC it reverts back to the county correct if something happens. Well, it's there's a I mean we have a we have analytical agreement with the city.
I mean on the city yeah it's a it's a joint board and there's you know both both entities both municip or both government agencies make contributions to the initial onset for the tech park but there's a separate operating agreement and and if this were you know depending on which public agency was to hold the property since this is all sourced from the county it would it would have to be with an agreement that it came back to the something happen, but I I don't know which one
is the easiest to work with, but but either agency is fine for trying. Okay. Thank you, Commissioner May. Thank you, Madam Chair. Um David, are you still on the trial board? I'm not. Yeah, my in looking at the funding, what's the probability of us being funding? Is it 90%, 80%, 100%. Or is it We don't know. I I mean, I can't answer that question. There's five members of that board that voted. Well, well, let me let me present it another way. Okay. How successful have the other counties and cities been in getting funding? Very successful. 90% 100%. who working with the triumph
staff to uh to work on the application so long as it meets the policy the statute for eligibility uh and it's creating the jobs and the policy of at least 115% of the prevailing average wage as long as it meets all those metrics uh they have been 100% successful. Uh it's when an application comes in that doesn't meet it, the staff tries to work with that applicant to uh get them to either
withdraw it or move it forward in line with those policies and and stats. And what's the minimum salary, Dave, for the jobs? Uh well, 115% of the area wages right now in Escambia County, the that would be somewhere around 63 64,000 a year. Yeah, Denita's shaking her head. I mean, quite frankly, when Jim Cronley first brought this project, I mean, that was a promise that we're going to bring jobs that were $60,000 plus, which that was way back then. And obviously, the number should be higher today. But, I mean, that was a commitment uh when we first started talking
about outline field 8 that we were going to have like manufacturing jobs that were going to exceed $60,000. So, hopefully, well, and I think that would be the goal. When I when I first joined the Triumph board, the area average wages were about $45,000. And so approximately 50,000 was the area wage. And with every single Triumph grant that requires 115% in order to be eligible, it continues to raise the bar uh to increase the household income. And and that's what Triumph has has been successful at doing is raising the the level of household income for our our communities.
That's why it's important and this it's it it will help pay for the infrastructure. Thanks, David. I appreciate it. Thank you. Don't go anywhere, Dave. I've pulled up a chair. Thank you for being our triumph Wikipedia today. We appreciate it. Yeah, we talked about this. I know you're not on the board anymore, but this is precisely the kind of project if you were on the board that you would approve. 100%. Absolutely. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. We appreciate I'm not going anywhere. Thank you. All right. Uh Chris Plate, you're up and then after Chris Plate will be Dave Hawking.
Good morning, commissioners. Thank you for this chance to speak. As CEO of Florida West, I'm so excited about the opportunity Outlying Fields presents to us in our economic development efforts here in the county. We're working hard on many properties right now um that are for our future economic development projects whether that is at Midtown or Central Commerce Park, the Bluffs, you name it. What is lacking though is a class A industrial area. So something that would attract those 60 70 $80,000 job projects on a regular basis. And so that is what this property does.
When building an industrial park though, you know, you need to incorporate not just the sales price, but all of that infrastructure, roads, sidewalks, curb and gutter, um infrastructure that goes into that has to go back into the purchase or sales or lease price. And so the plan that TriW is putting forward by taking a portion of that land and keeping it public, exactly what Mr. Bear was saying is the triumph dollars can cover some of those costs, keeping the price of the property more competitive within our market. So the more that we can use other people's money to develop
our properties allows us to then um leverage that into greater and greater benefits to the county to the jobs that we bring and everything else. Um so again, we're targeting aerospace, life science, and other white coat manufacturing um for that area. Uh, and to be honest, TriW has worked harder than almost any group I've ever seen and trying to accommodate everybody's interest in this, working handinhand with our office and uh, and we've had several meetings already with Triumph regarding this. So, I'm fully supportive of the TriW Plan. Thank you, Commissioner Barry. Thank you, Madam
Chair. Well, it's uh, as I think all of us could attest to, it's very difficult to make everyone happy, right? You just do you do the best you can and then you move forward with what you think is best. But um and we you know obviously trying to work through our agenda today. So we didn't uh take a lot of time in the administrator's report, but I want to thank you for the work that uh that you and Ashley and Denita are doing over there because we did have on the agenda today uh a $70 million capital investment and a large number of new jobs being created in uh in district 5. And very excited very excited about that. And we've got uh you know I think that we have an item
that'll be on the agenda for uh for next Wednesday with uh you know an additional large capital investment and even a much larger number of jobs being created at a uh at a very high wage. So publicly recognize uh you know that you're doing good work over there and we appreciate that Chris. Thank you. Thank you Commissioner May. Thank you Madam Chair. Hey Chris thank you for your service. A couple quick questions. Do you have any prospects for the public side of job creation at this point on for this property? I know you just said that you you're talking to some people. I
mean, do you have some realistic prospects? We do have one that uh right now that is a current company that we just recently recruited that would look at phase two and that would be one of those targets that we would try to incorporate into the park. They would be a perfect fit. Again, aerospace. So then I guess question two would be as we project I mean so many times we do this job creation at the point that these jobs are created we have to import talent I don't care whether it's ST aerospace or because we don't have the technical skill so how are we aligning
our economic development strategies that we have prospects with our e educational attainment and our workforce preparation I mean how are we tying that because I mean the young ladies that just walked out of here will probably be the ones that will be in the job market but how are we preparing them and are we are is there a activity if you have the prospects that you know you're going after. I mean, how are we working uh to train um doing workforce to meet that need? So, we I mean, economic development is good, job creation is good, but if we got to bring people from outside the community to fill these jobs, the pockets of poverty still exist. So, I mean, I guess, right,
I love where you're going, but I just want to make sure that we're doing that. I mean, we don't we can't wait till we uh bring uh SC apace here, then start training at Pensacola State of Joy Stone. I mean quite frankly the training should be yesterday if we know that you have prospects. I mean so from the private developer side what's he doing what you're doing at Florida West as as a county how are we doing to make sure that um we allow for people who live in this area to not have to reduce the price of the housing now outline 8 but to be able to afford it. And so that's my question to you. I appreciate that. Yeah we there's a couple things that are going on
right now. So with ST obviously they did not have the capacity here and they were building that in place. So now the AMP school and other things are coming online that um should have probably been here a little bit sooner but again it's all about demand and where the money's coming from. So like for now on aerospace we're in a really good position between George Stone that other components uh UWF and then with cyber another one of our targets with that going on at WF with their cyber center. I mean there's a lot of things that now we have already built that infrastructure for
the training. The other piece that we're doing we just started a manufacturing council and from those folks we're hearing directly what their needs are and it was kind of interesting. They don't necessarily need to worry about the base entry level and they don't need the seauite they need the middle management and supervisory those again in the wages that we're talking about. And so now we're going to start taking that input from the manufacturing council and sitting down with PSC UWF and the in the Escambia County Public Schools and making sure that we're starting to
align all of those trainings andmies in with what the companies are saying that they need. So our first priority is taking care of the companies that are here, making sure they're profitable, and then we strategically recruit to kind of put in and to fill in the gaps. So those filling in the gaps, the companies that are coming that that um hopefully the training infrastructure will already start to be in place. And listen, when Mayor Haywood was mayor, I I'm fully supportive of ST space and and that's not a negative. I what I say in workforce development, we have to be proactive rather than reactive. We can't say, "Oh, we bring ST airspace in and now we're going
to create the jobs because the real consumers are the people who are buying a Coca-Cola, a sneaker bar and and paying sales tax that goes into local office sales tax." They're buying cars. And so we should be creating jobs for Escambia County residents and preparing them. And to me that's a critical part of economic development. And so if the greatest investment outline field 8 is not necessarily just that district or that neighborhood, all the citizens made an investment, you know, and every citizen deserves the opportunity for ROI. Whether you are contiguous to this project or you live in the neighborhood, it doesn't matter. It is a Escambia
County Economic Development Initiative. Yes. Uh and I just hope that as we're looking out that we are preparing them now whether it's through the school board or whether it's through Escarosa or whether through it through our human services. How are we preparing uh the next generation of people prepared for these jobs? Because if not uh then this becomes a great development. Uh the very people that invested in can't afford to live there and that in my opinion adds to gentriification, dislocation and all those things that don't make for a healthy community. Totally agree. Any other
questions for Chris? Nope. Okay. Thank you. Dave Hawking, you're up. And then Teresa Blackwell, you'll be after Dave Hawking. Uh, good morning, commissioners. It's really great having Chris in our community. He's just been a fireball at increasing our opportunities for job growth. Um, and I do thank you all for supporting job growth in our community because that's our future. Um, you know, two things I might mention before I discuss the matter at hand is that tri is a generational opportunity for us. And as you may know, um, both David and uh,
um, Collier terms on the uh, triumph board have ended and they're they're not renewable and we need to get two more people from Western Florida back on that board. And so that's a Tallahassee issue and I encourage you all to help make that happen. You know, the HOA center showed that the highest and best use of the land at OF8 was in job creation and um this is what we're talking about today is facilitating that. So I ask you to agree today's ch today's change and voting
in favor of the first three items on the uh county attorney's agenda. Thank you. Thank you Dave. We appreciate it. Teresa Blackwell and then Melissa Pino, you'll be after Teresa. Good morning, Teresa Blackwell. I live in Bula. Um um in I stood here in 2017 and said, "A big commerce park is not what we need in Bula." After a long community campaign with
the help of Navy Federal, we finally got a great DPC master plan. All we needed after that was the right developer. Early in the process, Commissioner Barry said we shouldn't choose a developer based on the promise of top dollar. What what we need is a good partner. We have that in Chad Henderson and TriW. They have communicated openly with all the stakeholders, kept us in the loop, and in Bula, they've shown a strong grasp of what residents
want. I support continuing with them. I want what is best for Bula and for the county, what is financially responsible, and what will finally move this project forward. The price uh the developer is offer offering fully covers the county's 17 million with about 10 million in interest. The profit on that is not just money. It's those 171 acres that you will be retaining.
This is the due diligence period. I agree with Commissioner Hofberger. The developer paid for this time and they are simply telling us what they need to move forward. I want to commend the county attorney and the county administrator for negotiating a structure that protects the county's interests while allowing the developer to complete their due diligence in a transparent and orderly way. The developer's consistent engagement with the commu community has shown up in public meeting
after public meeting including several right in Bulo. Thank you Teresa. Your time is up and we appreciate your comments so much. Thank you. I want to make one point. My line in the sand will be the DPZ design code. That's what will ensure a worldass development. Yes, ma'am. Thank you. Uh Melissa Pino and then Chad Henderson, you'll be after Melissa. Thank you, Chairman. Hoffberger. And I want to apologize ter to Teresa because I wasn't trying to come behind her and steal her thunder. I was so focused on the beach issues today that it just occurred to me what I might
like to say about this is um and I went and ran and signed uh signed up. My dad used to say to me, "Don't cut off your nose to spite your face." And in other words, don't let the perfect be the evil of the good. It's not like I don't understand every component of this and I do understand for instance things that Mr. Moore uh is saying. I we've been and at or watched every OOLF8 meeting since spring of 2018. We've always wanted Teresa and the people up there to have something nice.
Um she just didn't understand that what we were trying to say is one of the commissioners that she was working on wasn't actually team team Bula. He was team cherrypick developer. I didn't want Dr. Horton, but other than that, I I really don't care what developer they got as long as it's a good one. And they've got a really really good one. And I want to say to the people in Bula, imagine drive to Navy Point and look what we got in the middle of it. And then imagine that project
on steroids. Imagine that entire field packed with brick town homes. I mean, we got some really nice neighbors out of it. So, that that was certainly key. We begged for mixeduse development and no one cared because they just that's not true. There was one person in the company that actually wanted it, but in the end they wanted every penny that they could ek out of it. And then guess what? We got direct to rent. So sometimes you just have to be satisfied with the really, really,
really good instead of the perfect. and I I think that they will get really good out of this developer. Thank you. I appreciate it. Chad Henderson, you're up. It's my understanding Chad has a short presentation of about 10 slides. Are we good letting him present that? Okay, Madame Chair, vice chair, and board members, thanks so much for for having me here. My name is Chad Henderson. I'm a principal partner with TriW and the CEO
and founder of Catalyst Group based here in Pensacola. Uh I do have a presentation. Is it able to be pulled up? I'm not. Casey, can we get some help to pull that up? Help is on the way. Okay, great. Okay, I I see what is this is this guy? Okay. Um, I realize I'm gonna try to be as efficient as possible with my time here, but um um I want to start by saying that that we've never been here before. Um, so we were um
we've been very busy since we've had the property under contract in June of last year and been very efficient uh with um with our efforts. Uh and we have spent a significant amount of time, effort, and resources up to date in a factf finding mission and due diligence. um well over seven figures has been spent uh to get us to a place where we can make evidence-based decisions going forward. That has not happened on this property prior till now. The reality is this is a such a
large and dynamic project. It is extremely dynamic and large and so that we have to make sure that we're making decisions based on facts. And this is not, you know, this project that we're working on, we're talking about today, the matter at hand. Um, is it's it's not about a price reduction. Um, it's it's not about despite headlines, it's it's not about because we don't want to buy the 171 acres or we've been off more than we can chew. This is about curating approach that makes sure that we have the best chance uh to have the successful outcomes that we all desire.
specifically around three consistent stakeholders that we have said that we're aligned with from the beginning. That's the people of Bula that has done a fantastic job of rallying around one voice, making their voice heard. Know that they want a very vibrant mixeduse development, a town center that is walkable, pedestrian friendly, built into new urbanist facets and viewpoints, uh where we're really having an opportunity to make memories. The other the other stakeholder is is a our economic development and business community that has been very sound on creating the jobs and the
right jobs and being intentional about those types of industries that we're going after, you know, such as marine innovation, clean manufacturing, uh biioharmaceutical, medical technology, aerospace, aeronautical, those types of things. And so we we have crafted a plan around uh that as well as the third stakeholder which is yourself in Escambia County who is absolutely an investor. um and they deserve an ROI on their investment. However, that ROI does not come just from the sales price of the upfront property. Uh we've been extremely uh active and transparent in in our progress.
Uh we've u um we've been uh have over 50 plus community meetings. In those community meetings, we've certainly been very outwardly communive, but I think as importantly or more importantly, we've been good listeners to understand who what are the concerns and make sure that we're trying to align as best as possible around the outcomes that are desired. Uh we have shared these uh the kind of the vision of the project with over 1 million views on a social platform and we have been very very very accessible uh during and transparent during our our planning approach.
Um I mentioned our three stakeholders uh but the project has to be grounded in economic vitality. I mean where we can actually execute and finance uh a project going forward. Um as I mentioned we we rallied around 10 I mean sorry five distinct districts. Uh we have done a ton of work on due diligence. Uh and we've already taken and um and digested that information and those facts and made sound decisions going forward based on that. As an example, we have a very in-depth and
significant traffic study that we've done. Uh, and we knew that there was an importance on flow uh, and fluidity throughout the entire project. Uh, so we worked hard to um, secure a western access to Bula Road. We drove to Chipley, met with Florida D uh, Department of Transportation. uh we understood their plans of the Bula interchange uh which is slated for starting of May of 2027 along with the improvements are on Bula Road and how can we tie into that and make sure we're being most efficient with our dollars and infrastructure. Uh from an ETI perspective,
I've been uh always we've been very intentional about the jobs and aligning with Florida West and PEDC on who we're going after and why. But let me explain a little bit about uh from my perspective, you know, how these uh how this proposed amendment is coming together. Again, this is not about that we don't want to buy the 171 acres. It's not that we're retrading on a price. We took the usable square the the square the acres uh usable acreage and divided by the original cost and that's how we come up with you know the allocation of price. In addition to that allocation of price of 28.4
4 million uh that would be paid for the 368 acres. In our plan, we've dedicated over 65 acres uh to green space uh and protecting, you know, bulas, wetland, wetlands, and woodlands. That's over 5.5 million, five plus million dollars of the purchase price that we're not going to use to be green space for the betterment of the overlay district and the master plan. The 171 acres left over is not just 171 acres that's bifurcated. It is a part of the overlay district and master plan
binded by a master development agreement. Uh and that 171 acres is getting the benefit from the master developers vision you know all of their due diligence and work uh all of their planning ensuring architectural integrity ensuring that these districts work together and create a sense of place. The goal is is that the middle of the stakeholders of all these stakeholders goals and objectives of where this lands and 1 plus one should equal way more than two. It equals three, four, and five where the whole is way greater than the sum of its parts. That's our goal. U
from a from a fiscal impact analysis, we've had thirdparty studies. We've worked with uh Florida West and PEDC. uh if we're talking about doing this right, you know, there is absolute immense value creation opportunity to to cap value creation capture opportunity for the county itself. So instead of the 14 million opportunity cost, uh if we have a this vibrant, you know, well orchestrated, well curated plan moving forward, the class A innovation and commerce district based on comps throughout Northwest Florida will will over triple in value of that
that the county can help to capture. In addition to going after the jobs that that we all want, uh in addition to that, if we think about how that we can actually absorb and create and execute um on on the job creation, uh you know, by 2037, there's over $10 million a year just off the 171 acres growing to beyond 13 million in 2045. uh producing over 1.1 billion at taxable value of stabilization uh and an immense amount of cumulative avalor tax over over time. So we've been very thoughtful uh
we've worked hard. We've tried to be transparent and we're trying to create alignment across all three of these stakeholders. So we would very much appreciate consideration of continuing and moving this moving this project forward. Thank you board. Any questions for Chad? I I want to say thank you. I have received constant communication from you and your team. But not only that, when you meet with people, they call me as a follow-up to let me know they met with you and what was discussed and it it's always been very consistent. I hear it from you and then I hear it from them and
there's just been very consistent communication and I know that's really difficult when you have so many people involved. So, I want to thank you for that. Thanks. Thanks for saying that, Commissioner Sherberger. Yeah. Hi, Chad. So, I want to echo what Commissioner um Hoffberger said. You've been constant communication with me too. We've met lots of times in your office, my office. We met yesterday and and and I first thing I want to do is is John Moore still here? John, you here? John? So, you know this in the in the industries I've been in uh in the aerospace
industry, we do working groups and in those working groups, we have devil's advocates. And what they do is they throw wrenches in our ideas uh to get us to think about what we're doing. And that's what you've been you've been that devil's advocate. You've been that devil's advocate for me. And I appreciate that. But we're at a point now where I I my decision-making is based on what I have learned. And the way I vote is the way you would vote and everyone else would vote if they
knew what I knew. That's that's what I believe and I've been in constant and I can't say that enough the discussions because you know I've had my doubts too uh about not about Chad's ability but about the the whole process myself but I have come to realization I wrote down a bunch of questions that I've been getting about this you know this deal and and and where we'll go with it And one of them was that we're giving away value. I felt that way too because we're
going to get $50 million and that possibly I don't know what the number will be. Uh but that $50 million that infrastructure money really unlocks the true value of that property. It it unlocks the value for us and for them for both of us. And it's not taxpayer money. at least it's not our money, it's not local money, it's money that we should be using. And and like
David Bears said, or maybe I put these words in your mouth, that this is precisely what this money is used for, is for this. And I I man, I I just I I was reluctant at first about the money. I talked with uh David about it. I wanted to be at ease about uh you know the risk that we're going to take and I wanted to share that risk but I I've come to the realization that we're already sharing that risk. We're sharing that risk with the developer and it's a big risk and it's a lot
of it's a lot of risk for us. I even wanted more money. I had him in the office. I said hey what do you think? What you think that we could do better than this? And after talking with them, I mean, I've I've never been a developer and I've never had this kind of money at risk ever, you know, so I but I do understand numbers and I understand there's a lot of risk for him. There is for us, you know, but there but there's a lot of risk for him and and unlocking the value of that property only happens after the developer Chad Henderson after he executes with the
infrastructure. That's when it happens. That's when it becomes really valuable. That's why we need Chad. That's all I got for now. Thank you. Thank you. Hey Chad, I got and I want to applaud Chad and the Wilson group. They've worked I think you've worked all of us very hard and I do believe you believe in the project and as I talk to you I I feel more convinced. I have I have three questions and one of them I just need to be have on the record and uh for for me. The first question is which I'm concerned about for you Allison. Is there risk because of these
changes that we could get an illegal suit for procurement and I I need to be sure that we're not because I don't want the taxpayers to be on the hook for that and that's important for me. Not that I'm against the project, but it has changed substantially and I think you need to give a, you know, attorney's opinion on this. Yes. Uh, it is true that this is a significant change from the original purchase sale agreement for this property. However, the county does have very broad home rule economic development powers. And that is why part of what I have advised the board is if
it's inclined to go with the new amendment to this sale that you need to also adopt C of the AB and C because that would be your legislative findings as to how the conveyance of the 370ish acres uh does still uh fulfill your economic development desires and powers and all of that. So, um I do believe you lawfully can proceed and I will also point out that we did include within the
amendment language indemnity and so the potential purchaser here uh would be indemnifying you in the event there was some sort of challenge to your that authority but um okay so that that would give us some protection. Yeah, of course you can't stop losses. Well, I know but I but we can try to thwart them at all cost. Yeah, I believe you have the the authority to proceed assuming you you uh set forth how the remaining 370 acre give or take purchase uh still fulfills your economic
development goals. Uh so I I'm comfortable you have those powers, but in the event there was some challenge, they've agreed to indemnify you. Okay. Second question for you and Chad. I got I just found some I'll get at the end. But say we don't get the numbers we want from Triumph for the infrastructure. What do we do then? Well, certainly we we have uh ran financial models in that there are other u other buckets of capital to go after. I mean it's just so glaring um and such
a once in a generational opportunity and triumph. I mean that would be our focus. Uh we have had uh active uh we do have active conversations and I've been to u Panama City and other places to meet with uh sitting um uh board members and understanding what they're looking for. Um I agree uh with Mr. Bear that I mean a project like this to me if this is what triumph dollars are for. Uh and so um now um we will we would work with staff from a triumph perspective to make sure that we're
curating our application in a manner that we're meeting all you know the requirements. Uh so I feel strongly that there are some dollar there's dollars there. Uh however you know there are other um you know pathways for capital. I mean that's another reason why I think that we're really positioned well. Um you know as you know capital markets get disrupted. Obviously, we've seen the 10-year Treasury, you know, spiking in the last couple weeks, the last four weeks. We've also had 38% uh, you know, rise in energy pricing, which suggests inflation. When you have inflation, uh,
you sometimes a lot of capital retracts. And so, you want to be entrenched with partners that have good access to capital and institutional capital. And that uh, between uh, JWA and and Catalyst, uh, we're well into the billions of that we have have developed and acquired, and we have uh, access to institutional capital. And so we would we have always planned and we will build a capital stack around whatever infrastructure is needed. Um however, you know, it would it just makes such good sense to orient uh and to curate the pathway to to you know have a a really good shot
at at Triumph. You know, Triumph um um has funded the scam. I mean, it's fun counties, seven other counties directly uh to the tune of in some cases 80 million or more. Um, and I believe that this is the this is the chance for our partnership to to raise our hand and say this is a really good good opportunity. But to answer your question directly, uh, Commissioner Kohler, um, the the triumph grant is not a contingency, um, in this amendment. Um, and so we're always looking at plan B, plan C, and plan D, but there's a glaring plan A for us to go execute on. That that's my concern because if
we don't get the jobs, and we've seen that, and I know Chris is doing a great job. I think you want to have it go forward. I hate to see us come back being a quagmire with Triumph, but David says we won't be. But um you know, as you know and talking to Chris, it's all based the amount we would get on the number of jobs we put out there, right? Is pretty much what happens. And so till we start seeing the jobs, I don't know how much they would approve. And so that's I have just a basic concern on that. Well, I I I I appreciate that concern. Uh the other thing that I would add is that
um in this partnership like approach on the ETI district. So this is not you know setting aside 171 acres for Escambia County to uh to produce those jobs and that development on. This is a part of a partnership in an intertwined in an overlay district in a curated master plan. You know we are should we're going to be shouldertoshoulder with Chris and others because I think it's going to take all of us to make sure that we are landing the employers that we would all like to see here. We're already having our own discussions outside of what Chris is having of prospects and other
things to come to the ETI district. And remember, you know, you guys are are fe simple owners and so you can ground lease, you can eventually sell. Some of those employers uh will spend their own capital to build the vertical improvements, right? But some of employers don't want real estate on their balance sheet and they want quality developers going alongside of them and utilizing their capital. That's where we would love to be, right? We would love to be a resource for third party capital to ground lease from you where you're capturing that value. We're providing the
capital to build the facility and then leasing to the employer that's creating the jobs. Okay. No, I'm I'm supportive of what you're doing. I just, you know, you always got to look at the mitigation and risk factors and that's I think it's important we do that. Thank you. Thanks. Thank you, Mr. May. Yeah. And and Chad, we've had conversations so you know I'm supportive. Uh, a couple questions. What's the projected amount for the infrastructure that on the public side that we're going to be going to triumph for? Um, is that a 50 million ask? I just heard 80 million. Yes. It's it's
it's a great question and u there is more to be done to really hone in. I mean, so we don't have a set of construction drawings. Um and but in your forecast you've done some good deal. You could be onest like for instance examples we could have hardened infrastructure needs for the ETI district alone based on the employers that will be especially from a cyber security perspective. So um yeah I I think you know from a uh from a from a performer perspective we injected 50 million but the direct and indirect cost around um uh the outlying fields development would be you know
h 100red million plus. Um so this is by no means is the developer relying upon a triumph grant to provide all the needs in the infrastructures. We we're not saying that at all. uh there certainly will be intertwined and shared cost that will mutually benefit both the ETI districts and the remaining districts um that the developer is actually and then in your mind Chad if say we didn't get it and I take David Bear at his word uh that he's going to lobby it he's a good lobbyist um what if we didn't get it you think there are private partners that would help us I mean we'd be
able to get the infrastructure in if we didn't get any public dollars if we were to fail at triumph, do you think that you could put together a team to make sure this project still Oh, yeah. Well, we have a team. You um Commissioner May, we we have um we have ongoing conversations and engagement with major institutional investors. However, there is a cost to that capital uh that is not associated with Triumph. So, the carrying cost will have to will be elevating your
basis. Therefore, to get your margin, you're going to have to push it through to end users. you're going to have a competitive advantage if you're utilizing Triumph because the the carry cost is not the same as going to get other third-party capital from a developer or otherwise or LP investors or whomever. So, this is why it's it's such a competitive and advantage uh for us to have this um at our disposal at least to explore and go after and that's what we're that's that's what this sets us up to do. Uh, you know, Allison did a f fantastic job because I was having conversations
and she said, "Wait a minute, you know, Chad, you know, you're we we have to make sure you the the the current contract is not set up for us to take these discussions much further than we're doing is preliminary and exploring. So, this is the next step. But to answer your direct question, yes, we are absolutely prepared for plan B, plan C, and plan D. But we need to do a great job of exploring plan A." No, absolutely. And I support that. And how dependent is your private side, your private development dependent on the public infrastructure on the acres that will remain with
us? I mean, can you get the say that there was delay, we didn't get the money. Can you go ahead and start your project without this infrastructure being put in? Of course. So there's some aspects the the whole but the whole notion of our approach has been to not phase in a manner in which we're building roads to nowhere and where we have uh 20 acres off of nine mile road. We're building a road and it dead ends and we're going to spend you know 3 to 5 years building that out then building another road to dead end. If we're going to get the outcomes that we desire a chassis of
infrastructure and throughput is necessary. So to answer your question, can we start 100% we can start some of the some of outline field 8 and we will uh but what would be best is to have this coordination and this partnership so that we're setting forth the chassis of infrastructure that will open up the entire project which will lead us to success or all of our stakeholder viewpoints are getting the outcomes that we desire. Appreciate it. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Do we have any other questions or any further discussions? I I got to say,
are are we moving forward with this? Because I got to say something. I got some legal advice in the last 10 minutes that I think I probably didn't know about. Um I did have a fundraiser on Tuesday. Had nothing to do with this today. I didn't know what Mr. Moore said about the timeliness. I swear, Chad, I didn't know this till 10 minutes ago. Um, I support the project, but I'm being told by legal I should abstain from voting on it because the fundraiser. I honest to God didn't know that till just a few minutes ago. Um, Alison, you want to tell them why?
Sure. The Florida law does provide for significant protections from multiple uh facets of the ethics code for campaign contributions. However, based on the circumstances presented here, it is my cautious advice to Commissioner Kohler that he should abstain from this item and file a voting conflict memo with clerk within 15 days. M I will do that and I support you guys. I this there was no alternative mode here. I promise. Commissioner, so I mean if that's the case, should any of us
vote? I mean I've received campaign contribution from many people that are involved in this. I mean I'm not I mean that's I mean do we have saying I mean I don't I'm not sound any I haven't received a campaign donation from somebody I the only one that can vote because I'm going to vote yes. Well yeah the timely manner that's the timely manners is that well I'm not going to vote on something and someone else received a donation and they're not voting. I mean I support it but I'm not going to vote on it because the concern raised here is the timing. The timing time or the
actual donation. So you're saying if we received a donation two years ago, it doesn't matter. That to me that is highly protected. So what's the difference between two days ago and two years ago? 36 hours ago, he apparently got thousands of dollars in campaign contributions from these folks. Well, not no not just them, but you know well I mean and that's fine, but many of us on this das I mean I'd care to say that many of us have gotten donations thousand hours ago from many of the people that are involved. My my concern is you're not on the ballot. He is okay. So,
okay. Well, I I just want a point of clarification because I don't want him abstaining because he received a donation and six months later someone says, "Well, you got a donation and you voted for Chad Henderson." So, yeah, that was my next question. Yeah, absolutely. I'm talking. Thank you. I am also on the ballot and I've received a lot of campaign donations. So, thank you for everyone who believes investing in infrastructure and public safety. My last campaign fundraiser was months ago. Do I need to? Obviously, it's all public record as well and you can go to mycambio
votes.com and look that up. If it's months ago, I have far fewer concerns. I just learned about this and it was 36 hours ago. So, that is my concern is the timeliness can be something that raises some concerns. I I mean, okay, 36 hours ago, 3 months ago, three years ago, you still received the money. I mean, I'm not worried about something that happened two years. I don't like the I don't like the precedent of the discussion of this. Well, then drop the item and bring it back so that we can get about somebody abstaining because of contributions. I've never heard this
as an issue in 14 years up here. I have never had a situation in the last handful. I the campaign contributions has never been raised as an issue of anyone coming before the DAS and it's been explicitly stated that it's never been that it's not a consideration. I don't want the president I don't want the president opening the door for for commissioners to be able to abstain because they've received campaign contributions. Then my advice would be to drop it and bring it back next week so that we can get an opinion regarding the timing of this particular circumstance. Well, you
better get an opinion because I don't think timing has anything to do with it. If if Cola got him and Ashley got him, I mean, whether it's three months or and whether I got him three years ago, I mean, that's a bad precedent. I mean, I'm all in favor, but that to me sets me up because I can tell you who's gonna be the first one that they come after. I mean, there's explicitly stuff in our fact training that we do every year that says campaign contributions aren't to be considered for they're not considered a reason for for an abstension. And in virtually every circumstance, I would agree. I'm giving cautious advice based on a fact pattern given to me within the last 20 minutes. Okay. Just
for clarification, Commissioner Kohler, when was your fundraiser? It was Tuesday and normally it wouldn't be a big deal but there's people even in this room that are threatening me with ethics charges around the clock. So that's one of the reasons I have to abstain if if we need if if we need to go if we need to go if we need to move forward with allowing Mike to abstain and and I understand and asking Allison for some for some more definitive opinion. You know, I mean,
I don't like to abstain from things. I have to abstain. I think it's Mike has abstained. Ashley has abstained and I got to abstain. I mean, that's crazy. I mean, she's Ashley's being I mean, Ashley's being told three months ago doesn't matter. So, but what I don't want to do is just drop this for a week. I don't see how I don't see how seven days makes any difference. And then we're here for another hour plus having the same thing. I would rather move forward. I would rather move forward with four votes and one abstension if that's the will of the board. allow Mike to abstain if that's what he'd like to do. I just don't I don't like that as a precedent. I just want that on the record. But and all I would say, Commissioner Barry, is as long as the attorney
says that there's something statutoily that says that it has to do something with time and not the donation. And that's fine. If if that's her legal license that she's telling me, I mean, statutoily, if it's wrong to accept it for a day, it's wrong to accept it, you know, 5 days. And if that's the legal advice I'm getting, that's fine. But it's explicit in the statute that they're not that campaign contributions are not an issue to for abstension. Well, so why are we being advised to absain then? I mean, if statutoily we can do it, it's within the law, we should do it. But what's good for the goose is good for the gander. I mean, that's a that's pretty good there. I mean I mean
I I and so I'm I'm good. That's just my only question because I know exactly what happens. You know, no one's going to pick up my legal bills. They hadn't done it in the past. I pick my my own up every time I'm accused of something. So, if you're telling me that we're good to vote, I'm I'm going to vote. Allison, I I would to Commissioner May and Commissioner Barry's point, since I am up for reelection, I would like to know what those boundaries are. Obviously, it is all public record, but I would like some consistency. So, if we could ask the commission on ethics for their parameters and their recommendation on that, I do want to make sure that we're doing things the
proper way and the consistent way. So, yeah, you can't treat the chair anyway than you treat colar. I mean, three months. I mean, you're telling me that you can receive it three months and he got it three days ago. I mean, well, we also can't. Yeah. I mean, but anyway, I mean, well, Commissioner Barry, Madam Chair, I move I move the item. Okay. What? It would be A, B, and C. Yes. Do we have a second? Second. All in favor?
Okay. That is four 40 with Commissioner Coler abstaining due to a conflict. Gota make him abstain. Oh, can you verbally give that? And he has to declare why he's abstaining. I'm abstaining because the timeliness of the fundraiser and I'm in support of the project. Thank you. We appreciate it. And and and Mike, I support you for obstaining. All I I'm saying is, as Commissioner Barry said, statutoily has nothing to do with time. Well, I'm not a lawyer. I neither am I. I
met one once. I Allison, I appreciate it. I know it's not easy to give us advice, especially when we don't agree with you and when it's a little Thank you for trying to make sure we don't get sued. Thank you. Um, okay. We do have another Yes, ma'am. I was just going to move on to there's one other item on the county attorney's report. The next item regarding customary use. Wonderful. We do have several speakers signed up for customary use. Um, some of you are waving in support. So,
as I call your name, some of you put a note. I'll read that if you want to stand up and wave. Um, we'll also give you the opportunity to come up if you have anything additional to add. Tony Hobbs, you'll be first. And then Brian Oswald, you will be after Tony. Madam Chair, before it starts, I I know Commissioner um Cer is thinking of leaving and so at some point I'll leave. I just want to be clear before any speakers, my position has always been in support of customary use. It hadn't wavered, hadn't changed, and regardless of the discussion, that's where my vote and my support's going to be. And I I want to tell you all this, if you need my vote, I I have to leave at 11:20. So,
you know, I I have to I have a plane at 12:50. My dad's having heart surgery tomorrow, so you can leave right now if you need to. Go ahead. So, this is also this for two months. I mean, so this is also as a discussion item. So, it's my understanding that we're discussing and we can provide direction to the staff, but we're not taking votes as of today is is my understand for me. I'm sick of putting it on the agenda without voting. How many times we going to discuss it? We keep putting it on the agenda for what? I mean, wasting people time. Vote it up, vote it down.
Well, I How many speakers are there, Madam Chair? Well, we have a total of 34 with about a third of those waving in support. Um, so as a reminder, any one of us can put something on the Can we do the discussion then have you guys talk after the fact if I have to leave? Would you be willing to speak after the fact and let the board talk about it on this item? I know it's a rare item. She can she can I mean the chair can handle it. The board can the board can wish to discuss first. I mean that's Yeah. Is that okay? We have we have the latitude to do that. What was that? Commissioner May said
we have the ability to have our discussion before we take speakers. I mean that's our discretion. I I believe it went on the agenda as your recommendation. So, what would you prefer? Well, in light of Mike's scheduling thing, I would say let's let's us discuss what we're going to discuss and then we can listen to the public speak. Yes. Um, just, you know, the last time the last time it it came up, you know, there was uh, you know, there was some appetite on our board to to move forward in some fashion. Um, and and you know, I I think that uh there seemed to be a lot of,
you know, community interest in trying to, you know, trying to sit down and talk to board members about what they would be willing to move forward with. And I didn't know kind of where that where that had landed and what, you know, what there was conversations about a compromise or about, you know, what you might be willing to uh uh to move forward with. Mike, I I don't know what that I don't know what that is or what your appetite is. Well, my you know, as as everyone on this board, I'm assuming is getting emails daily from both sides and and they're both passionate
and they they both to me have good concerns, but with sitting down with Allison, I don't think the board has given any clear direction on what the staff should do. After talking to you, and I know Alison, I'm putting you on the hot seat lot today, but the other thing is, well, let's say you're the attorney. Um, the the other thing was testimonials. You told me if the county was to get in and I just I don't want to speak for you, but I think that the county should be part of some of the testimonials. Is that correct? Can you can you share with the with the people here what
you told me? Sure. In my opinion, if the board is inclined to make a finding of customary use of any part of the sandy strip of the beach, whether it be a large strip, small strip, whatever, that needs to be done by ordinance. We need to designate very specifically which geography we are talking about. And there must absolutely be at the time of the vote on that ordinance legislative findings as to why and how this board believes that that geographical area has meets
those prongs that we've talked about those four prongs of customary use. What I do not think is going to be defensible is to simply just say customary use is you know imposed on whatever. So you're talking about taking testimonials and the board. So is that the direct? So if the board has an appetite to move forward with something, then you need the board to tell staff to start taking testimonials from people. I think testimonials that last time, but testimonials is a bit of a I don't know that that's in evidence. We we we need evidence like look at the deeds,
look at historical evidence. I mean, somebody has to be the repository for for that information and that would seemingly be the county in this instance. And so you're saying I mean we're a long you know pro soundingly you know a ways away from an ordinance but the board could give direction to to staff to be to begin being a repository taking information right because I think the recommendation as to how much there might be a defensible case over is going to depend on what there actually is out there. What do people say? What do people's photographs show? What
does the what do the deed show? Are there already existing easements? Looking at that on a parcel by parcel basis is not something that I feel like we've been directed to do. And I mean there are maybe other compromised things that I know Coler and I have discussed. If you're wanting to also tie this together with the acquisition of more property, for example, uh is there a compromise with any of the HOAs or any of the businesses that have Gulfront properties? Obviously, the best way to defend against lawsuits is that people voluntarily provide that access. I'm not
saying there's a lot of it, but there could be. I don't know. All right. So, Mike, what what what what are you comfortable doing? Well, I I think we today tell staff to start looking at parcels and deeds immediately. We start having legal collect evidence and testing. I do think everyone should read this Readington case. I think it's it's pretty interesting. I have some confusion um with the four pillars. I think I've shared that with you. I'm a little bit concerned how we'll meet those. I know we had customary use before 2018, but I'm not sure the way the law is written
in Alison and I have had a lot of discussions on that. That's why I think we need the testimonial piece to to build the case. I don't know what the footage should be. I'm just saying I wish the condo owners would come back with something. If you ever have beach reourishment out there, it's going to be public use anyway. So, I will tell you the condo owners have been coming to me a lot. I met with them just this week. I met him in my office and and they are coming with compromise. And so there are a lot of things I'm learning. I'm learning about I mean they're willing to go to talk to the folks uh in the that easement section that 1.2 miles to see if they're
willing to to allow some um more access there because I got another heat. That's great. Yeah, you're wonderful. And then and then but because in because I I got shown essentially a heat map map of where everybody goes on the beach and there's some spots where there's just nobody going there's and and and they can't get there unless they use the uh the beach access points to get around to the condos. So but there are places and there and there we're talking about money. We're talking
about not closing down uh beach access number one. We're talking about making it a better amenity by uh um by spreading those beachgoers to other beach access points. Um and I'm talking about almost a half a million dollar yeah half a million dollars to purchase those parking spots uh over there. So Mike, are you okay with with the board giving direction asking the county staff to start taking?
What I want to know is are you going to recuse yourself, Mike? Because for the same reasons that we just did. Why? What's the purpose? No one gave me any money. I don't know. I don't know who came to your your Hey, this conversation is limited to the people up here. Commissioner Commissioner Stroberger, I'm not I'm we're doing what I consider discovery. We're not making an ordinance. We're doing due diligence. We're asking staff not knowing what's going to happen in the Readington case that's out there in the 11th circuit. I I'll tell you what I learned just this week was in
uh we had lost a customary use case on Prito Bay on on Prito Key in 1978 I think it was in 1978. So I mean isn't that a precedence? Isn't that pretty damn important to know? Well that would be in the evidence uh process I would say that would be added right. Yeah. I mean, I'm not saying that those kind of things. If we have to go any further than that once we know that to be true. Well, I don't know that. I think it's going to be decided by a courtroom more than likely, but but I
don't know. But are you are you opposed to asking the staff to look at parcels and deeds and collect evidence? I am. I'm opposed to doing it only because it's it's going to be a waste of time. It's it's a waste of the staff's time to do that. If we know Allison, madam attorney, if if we know that we've lost a customer use case on Purto Key, does that kind of change the conversation a little bit? It's very fact specific. It would depend on the geography, why that ruling was made,
how far up the and I don't know anything about that case, but the there was I mean there was a period of time, you know, when when I was young in here that it was all that it was considered public out there. So, and this was after 78, but it was before, you know, it was before I was in office. I mean, so I I don't know what the case from 78 was, but there was some period of time in the 80s and 90s where that area was considered public or I can tell you not anymore. Well, it should be uninterrupted. It was one of the one of the criteria. It's been interrupted. But there
was also I mean the big change I think happened I don't know seven eight nine years ago whenever whenever you know whenever the legislation you know changed or the legislature and the governor changed some uh changed some rulings in to allow for you know the criminal criminalization of trespassing in some of those areas on private property but it's I don't know the 1978 I don't think it's the worst thing in the world to it's a big deal you know and even if you know even if uh you don't agree with it conceptually. I don't think it's the worst thing in the world to allow
the county to be a repository to take information from people that feel very passionately about something. It's a legitimate, even if you don't agree with it, it's a legitimate enough issue. I don't think that's inappropriate to allow our staff to beun to begin taking information from people at least hearing them out. I mean, I would almost expect us to do that even without board action, but if we need to give board direction from at least the majority of the board to say, "Look, we think it's an important enough issue that we think it's worth the staff's time to
allow them to receive information from citizens that they think is important." And then we can and then you know our professional people can determine whether it's legitimate or whether it's you know whether it would go into the merits or go into the substantive argument that the county could make in support of customary use. Maybe we don't get a lot of substantial competent evidence. But maybe we do and commissioner the one thing I would say is and also we're not making an ordinance today and it may help both these groups get to more common ground. And I
don't think I don't think it's going to hurt us at all, but I I know you're passionate about it, but I can tell you as a sailor that came here as an E2, it was customer use out there. Everyone walked around where it is now. And I look at it is it was I that that's where you went when you didn't have money. Now they charge you an arm and a leg and they don't want you to use it. And it's just not right. It's I I'm for green space and sand space, but I want And you weren't here. You weren't here for the meeting when I gave out the Constitutions. I should give you one. I should give you one because they wouldn't take one. They wouldn't take one. They're essentially
throwing out the Constitution is what they're doing. Commissioner May, uh I get his address. It was for me, but probably uh this has probably been on a discussion 15 times, 16 times. Have we not given any direction to staff in all these meetings that we've not we I mean we we're wasting staff time our time resident time 15 times we voted up we voted the people have come down 15 20 times I'm tired I mean throughout the last couple years I mean now have we not given staff direction
to do that we have not apparently not apparently well so well that's my fault then well it's I mean I mean I've failed in many aspects so this would only be another failure no you didn't fail you I did I failed as well if we didn't tell after 15 times and we didn't say staff unless staff just ignored us. I mean that happens often too but so we would I would just say if the majority of us are are giving direction that the staff would take information I think that's all that they're asking for today and I'm I'm comfortable with that. So, who do we need to tell? What staff person? Debbie,
who who do we going to tell? Cuz who Allison, who are we going to hold responsible instead of coming back again and saying who? Who? Who's going to who's going to do it? You doing an Alison? If I think the I can, but the last meeting we had was 2 to2 and he was absent. Well, I think it's pretty clear where I'm going to go. So, if the board would vote to direct the county attorney's office, natural resources, we can planning. Let's do that. Let's put it in drive and get it out of reverse. Somebody, please. Please vote to tell Alison to go do it. I vote. Just get it out of
the reverse cuz that's all we're doing. I mean, two step back was turn around with your eyes closed. Let's go. All right, Madam Chair. If if I I do believe that Commissioner Stroberger had something he wanted to say since it is in his district, which it is odd that all of a sudden we're not referring to sure whose district it is, but I I just have a statement I want to read. I've been waiting to read this thing and I wrote it down so I don't miss a thing. So at its core, this debate is not about beach towels, umbrellas, or access points. It's about the right of exclusion. The most fundamental attribute of private property ownership. Without
the right to exclude, ownership is hollow. Customer use asked this board, I'm hoping that you guys are listening to me, too, because you're the ones I need to convince. It's not them. Customary use asked this board to declare that privately owned dry sand beaches are subject to public use based on historical practice. But that flips our constitutional framework on its head. In America, property rights are presumed to belong to the owner unless lawfully conveyed, purchased, or taken with just compensation under the fifth and 14th amendment. They are not subject to
popular demand or retroactive interpretation. The doctrine of customer use requires proof that the use of ancient, reasonable, without interruption, and free from dispute. That very fact that this issue is being litigated and vigorously contested by property owners undermines that claim that has been un that it has been uninterrupted and undisputed. If the right truly existed, we would not be here debating this. There is also a structural problem.
The public cannot independently sue private property owners to force customary use. Instead, the pressure is placed on the local government to act as that instrument. That should concern every property owner in this country, not just those on the beach. Because once government declares that longstanding public presence overrides deed ownership, the presence does not logically stop at the shoreline. We've said this before. I've heard them say that. On the other side, as a policy matter, we must ask, is it necessary? Perto Ki has miles of publicly owned beach. Access
points exist. The county can purchase additional property if expansion is desired. And that's what I plan to do. What we cannot do, at least not constitutionally, is redefine private land as public simply because it's desirable. Did everyone see? Please don't interrupt. Just sit there. Did everyone see the movie Gran Torino? Did anyone see that movie? Clintise would capture the instinctive truth of property rights when he said, "Hey kid, get off my lawn." It was a blunt line,
but expressed something deeply American. Ownership carries with it the authority to say no. Melissa, this is your last warning. Any more outbreaks and I will ask you to leave. We value your opinion, but you are being disruptive. Larry can ownership carries with it the authority to say no there is. So where is Clint Eastwood? We need them now. We need Clint Eastwood right now. Customary use asked this board to tell property owners that their lawn isn't really their lawn anymore. That history and
sentiment outweighs title and deed. That is not a compromise. That is a relocation a reallocation of rights without compensation. If we value property rights not selectively but emotionally but consistently when we must reject then consistently we must reject customary use and instead pursue lawful voluntary and constitutional solutions to public access. Because once the right of exclusion is eroded, it's not easily restored. And when government becomes the one saying it's not your
lawn anymore, we have stepped far beyond beach policy and in into constitutional territory. And I believe that with everything I'm made of. I'm not counting votes. I'm not counting donations. I'm looking at at the Constitution and property rights. I'm thinking about my own property and how I would feel if it was happening with me. Everybody should feel that way. You should feel that way on that side. I've I've heard people on this side say, "I own property over there." I've
looked you up and you did not own some of you did not own property over there. You just say that. Yeah, I can look it up. Property appraisers got these records forever. Who owns property? When you owned it. I know you do. I know you do. I know you do. But property rights is pretty damn important. And I just don't think that we should be saying, "Uh, let's figure this out." And it's not going to be, "I used to fish over there." It's not going to be that. It's not going to be It's not going
to be Mike and other sailors saying, "We used to walk on these beaches all the time when we were when we were here uh for school." That's not going to be good enough. It's got to be more than that. Thank you, Madam Chair. I will say I do have my my question is where does it end? Because all waterfront property is desirable. Um my family lives in Alabama. When I drive up to see them, I drive through Cantolman in Molino and there's this great place where you can pull off the road and there's always vehicles lined up and you can go down to the creek and it's called Canoe Creek
Beach and it's actually listed on Google and there's reviews for this place. But when you look it up, it's privately owned. So my question is if we're going to start looking at taking beach property, I would also like to look at taking this property in the north end of the county. Well, and we can reach out to the TDM Family Properties LLC and see what they think about all these people who have been customarily using their property. Well, good. Good luck with that. Well,
let's move the water. Any water y'all want in district three y'all can have. You ain't got to vote on it. Yeah. We'll we'll we'll see we'll see what the appetite is for that. Madam Chair, um I move that I move that we ask the county to uh begin taking information from uh from citizens. All those opposed 32.
Thank you. So, see, point of clarification, we're directing Allison to come back with this information, the attorney. Is that what's the clear direction? All All they're saying that we hadn't done was ask the staff to allow people to give information to us for why they think that they have there's been customary use out there. So, we're the county is going to be the repositor of information from citizenry. That's all we've done. So they're going to go with Commissioner Stroberg and have town hall meetings or they going door todoor? How does that work? I mean
what's the protocol? My my my perception would be we would be a passive repository meaning somebody brings you information and we book it in. That's what I mean I don't know that you're I don't know that you're going doortodoor. I mean you know if this is this is important this is you know this is important to some people out there. So I would expect that the you know the the burden of you know the burden of information is going to be on them to be providing that information to us. I don't know what information they have but presumably they have information that they deem
to be valuable and I would think that now is the time they would give that to the county. And and just for clarification you know and in respectful of Steve and his district you know I I was ready ready to vote today. I was ready to vote six months ago, two years ago. Is there different information from what the beach owners and what the advocates have said in public form? Are we looking for something more formal in writing or is it like another public forum where people are going to go down here and have 60 speakers? That's kind of my question because if if so,
I mean, we're just I mean repeating rinse. I don't know. I mean, I would think that this I would think this takes the issue off the table. Good luck with your dad, man. I would think this takes the issue off the table for us for some period of time, right? That's all I want to do. Yeah, that well me as well. I know you that's what I think this does now that, you know, I would think this takes the discussion item off of us. Hopefully, it would take the it would remove, you know, so many speakers coming from meetings for some period of time. It's going to be about them providing us information and so staff would come back to us with a report in your mind later.
I mean months. This is I mean I this is a long process and I don't know how much information but if the county would eventually move forward with an ordinance about establishing customer use we have to it sounds like we have to have a lot of documented evidence and that's going to take some period of time and it's going to come from the public out there to provide that. So I think this should take this off our plate for some period of months. So we we we we're expecting for the legal office to create a protocol, an instrument to go out, survey, gather data, bring the data back to
us in some type of format that we can seek to move an ordinance or make an intelligent vote. So what is the expected timeline of this? Because what I don't want to do is tell the people who are out here that we're doing. Can I just get Alison answer my question then? I'm good. I what I would think is that a combination of your staff from different departments are going to see what they can find, review this case that Commissioner Stroberger is referencing, look at deeds, look at easements, and hear from the public on whatever they have,
whether it be photographs or their stories of childhood or whatever it is that they have. and at some point in some amount of time kind of report back to you like the west side looks like there's been a lot of use the east side maybe not I'm just making that up that's for hypothetical um and see what you guys want to do because obviously there's some difference of opinion on the board here well I don't have an opinion I mean I've had the same opinion for years all I'm saying Alison is if we can give some indication of how how is this data collected because if not we have not
brought about any efficiencies because people are going to continue to come down to public meetings uh to vent here because this is you know what they know. So is is there going to be a public notice? I mean are we going to create a portal? How do people know this is how you're collecting the data? This is how we you're doing the research. I mean will it be a lot of them are finding us we're getting a lot of traffic any emails and things from both sides on this issue. A lot of it is coming in and I know to your offices as well, right? So I don't think there's going to
be any uh challenge with them getting information or contact with our offices. They can go and find phone numbers on our on the website if anything beyond that like a portal is something that we'll have to look into. So good luck with getting the phone calls to go through. So I'm actually I'm my last question and maybe maybe I won't get a direct answer. How are we going to collect the data and what's going to be the procedures and how are we going to have the public input? And we don't know. I I'm not positive, but I mean, we we are always open for business. I mean,
we take phone calls, we take emails. We can certainly start gathering that with your direction that you want to hear back from us at some point. So, that's what we'll be doing, I think. Well, but in fairness, you know, I supported the motion of Commissioner V. I actually second it. I just want to be able to tell people exactly how to proceed. And I know the only other way is that people are going to come down here in droves every board meeting and then we still end up with this same conversation. We can uh Yeah. And we can work with CMR and come up with some kind of right release
that can go out to kind of help guide people. All right. So and and CMR can create a specific email. So, for example, if we wanted to do customary use at myascambia.com and then Casey can do a press release on that to educate the community on how they can and we could do we could do a monkey survey. We could do all type of things on there. I want to make sure they can attach pictures that way. We can gather as much information. My concern about a phone call is we can't attach documents. So, if we're going to do it, I do want to make sure that we're doing it correctly. What is a practical timeline knowing that we have to implement a way to collect the data and to
give the community time to gather that data? Because what I don't want to do is say, "Hey, we're gonna do this and we're gonna collect your data, but we're not going to tell you when we're going to use that." I don't think with there's no question months. I mean, we can we have very few board meetings this summer. Um, but I would be thinking certainly late summer, three months, four months at least. Well, let's put it this way. If if it doesn't take months, that means there's
not been much information provided, which means we don't we're not going to be able to move forward. So, assuming there's a lot I have no idea, to be clear, I have no idea. But there are people that say they have all this information. Well, now is the time that they're going to have to provide that information that's documentable and substantial. And if if it doesn't take months to compile the information that we're given from the public, then we probably don't have a whole lot to move forward with. So I I would foresee, you know, at least three or four or five months. I mean,
it's that seems reasonable. I'm assuming that there's all this information that's waiting to be delivered to the county. So Melissa, if we were to put out a press release on Monday and say, "Send us all of this information." What would be long enough for the community to be able to send that in? Would that be Yes, ma'am. Would you say that would be, and I'm asking you because I know that you're very passionate, would that be 30 days? I certainly appreciate that very much. Um, Chairman Hoffberger, so to be clear, we already have dozens and dozens of testimonials lined up, but we did not want to tax people by telling them, send your testimonial in by email, especially with a lot of
the um older folks that really are they they want they want to offer this testimonial. this whole when when you guys get sued, it'll fall apart quickly. But the the whole case is going to hinge on testimonials just like it did in Readington. And FYI, Chair Chairwoman Hoffber, I know you're way too busy to listen to hearings. I've listened to the oral arguments and Christie and and Tim and Allison can back it up. They had 80 testimonials for their original customary use ordinance. The
judge limited them to 30. He only let them bring 30 on the What do you think is a good time period? So if we put out a press release on Monday that says, "Hey, this is how you can submit your information or you can drop it off in person." Do you think we should give the community 30 days, 60 days, 90, 120, what does that look like? I would I would really think that two months, two 90 days, 90 days. Okay, that's I mean, we've got so much of it. We've been talking to so many people. We're we're so close. The only reason we haven't done it is we didn't have any official way to work
with the county attorney's office. So that it is a testimonial. I want to be clear about this. It has to be an affidavit. So we could have hired and we've talked about it um a a court reporter to go around and video people and notoriize it. So then if you guys did get sued, you could use it. But that seems kind of senseless because obviously um Allison is going to want to make sure her team that they are scripting any language for those affidavit and not our attorneys. That makes sense. So we'll give 3 months so 90 days for them to submit materials and then once you
evaluate how much has been submitted then you can give us a reasonable timeline for evaluating and our attorneys are also very happy to just have friendly discussions with that. We all we already have a boiler plate for an affidavit, but we held back because we know it's your discretion, Miss Rogers. Thank you. We appreciate it. Yeah. And and I get that. But I mean, you can't have multiple cooks in the kitchen, man. The meal ain't going to turn out too well. I mean, so Alison, you're you're gathering the data and you're putting it together. No disrespect to male, not male's
attorneys, not any it's our attorneys. I mean, because when we get sued in the shade meeting, I mean, we're the ones that are getting sued. I mean, and it's the five of us that ultimately take the responsibility. Uh, like we I mean, we're kind of old for the season. I mean, in these lawsuits, and I want to make sure that, as you said earlier, Alison, we can we can be sued, but what's how do we put ourselves in the best position to defend the suit? I think we need to start by reviewing what we get and what we find and then we can see if it makes sense to the board to proceed or to
proceed with a partial or some as commissioner Kohler has referenced a narrower than the full sandy strip or those we want to subtract out easements that already exist. I think we 90 days allows us to see what we have but then we need to evaluate what we have. So you need three months as the chairperson said and then to gather to get it then another three months to go. That would be great. Okay. So three months to gather, three months to make a decision. We'll bring you back something and six months as Commissioner Barry said earlier. Perfect. So it'll be six months. That seems fair. Listen, that's fair. And listen, if both sides want to get together, you can take
some of my discretionary money. We'll meet on the beach. We can eat, cook, and y'all can discuss and then we'll win it. Okay. Okay. There were no items added to the agenda. Do we have any announcements before we adjourn? Nope. Thank you. Oh, do we want to hear? Does anybody still want to speak? I do. We do. Okay. Okay. Okay. I will call out your names and then uh as we call out your names, if you're still here, you can make your way up. Tony Hobbs. Uh I have a question for um Commissioner
Barry. Would both sides be presenting information to the county? I would presume so. Yes. I mean, I wouldn't normally answer a question, but yes. Do you need to vote again to make that clear? No. No. No. That's clear. Okay. Message delivered. There's not there's not segregated publics. So, whoever whoever submits. Yeah, that's a great question. We'll make sure that in the press. Start my time and over and put the video up. I mean, the the image, my presentation. Um, we're
not going to start the time over, but we can get your presentation up. Okay. This case really has been decided and I'm shocked that people haven't read it. It's a customary use case from 1978. And this wasn't just generic. The judge that this county was a defendant and had their own county attorney respond and made a claim of the be the public having the right to this beach where Llaya is now. Under customary use doctrine. They argued that and they lost. So you're taking staff time to
plate people and to listen to things. This is an effort in futility. I don't understand why when we've presented this information to you, go to Allison and ask her. She's given some great advice today. I'm happy to hear some of this. Um but is this what we do? Last year, my wife and I remitted $40,000 in property tax to this county. Is this the way it's being spent? This is shocking.
Does anyone have any questions? I mean, the answer, Tony, is yes. That's how we're spending your money. Okay. So, here, if you'll look a where Llaya is is where they said no customary use. Thank you, Tony. Your time is up. We appreciate it. And please do turn that in. Brian Oswald, you're up. And Alfred Alfred, I'm so sorry. I don't know how to say your last name. Thank you. Thank you, commissioners. Uh, my name is Brian Oswald. I've been a taxpayer of
Escambia County for over 25 years. I'm sorry that Commissioner Kohler and May are not here. However, uh I had some words already formulated that I was going to speak at, but I after listening to today's discussion for over two hours, I just wanted to share from another taxpayer. Look, we got a lot of issues. All of us taxpayers, you're talking about multi-million dollar developments. You're talking about all kinds of other important things. There is no doubt that this particular case has passionate proponents and passionate those that are not for it. Ultimately,
just like a divorce, the only people that win in a divorce are the two attorneys. And as a taxpayer, all I see is dollar signs trying to figure out how we're going to legally dispute this, which opinions and emotion doesn't carry the legal course of the day. It's ruled by law. And all I see is me having more taxpayer dollars, all of us in this room having more taxpayer dollars and my employment to you as commissioners and as a community. Let's work for solutions and
try to figure out the best way to move this forward as opposed to an all ornone approach that's only going to cause more legal wrangling for years. If we can work towards a solution that allows more public access, if we can work towards solutions that protect property rights, that's what I would implore the commissioners to look at. At the end of the day, my grandmother, someone else quoted something earlier about their grandfather. My grandmother said, "At the end of the day, there's two sides to a story, and there's something in the middle." I got to believe we
can find something in the middle without years of legal wrangling and millions of dollars that we're all going to have to pay. All of us are going to have to pay. I appreciate your time. Thank you for listening to everyone. I appreciate how you guys are handling this. Good luck and we'll look for an outcome at some point. Thank you. Thank you, Brian. Alfred, you're next. And Karen Roth, you'll be after Mr. Alfred. Say your last name for me one more time. Co-rances. Thank you. Um, thank you for the opportunity to speak. My name is Al Kof Francesco. I'm My wife and I were married here
in Escambia County 52 years ago. We are residents of district 4 and we own property in Beach Colony. I'm here to express my opposition to any attempt to impose customary use on privately privately owned beaches in Puro Key. Over the years, I've watched Escambia County get involved in many lawsuits. Millions of dollars in legal fees have been spent and everything. Little or nothing has been resolved from it. Uh that is a pattern that should concern all taxpayers in the county. I'm afraid that the county chooses customary use, we will be in the same situation again. The county
will spend years in court, millions of dollars in legal fees, and still may lose. The cost of that fight will be enormous. As a taxpayer in District 4, I do not believe it's the best way to spend public money. The individuals here have yellow t-shirts on on the on their t-shirts. They say public lands belong to the public. I agree. This is not public land. This is private land. This has been deed to the individuals. If the goal is simply to give and improve public assets,
let's spend the dollars on something real, tangible. Use the money to acquire additional property in Purdo Key. Get and create beach access points where people can get to and avoid fewer conflicts. The county should be working with land owners to create and and access to the beach, not picking a fight with millions that will cost millions of dollars to community. This is not just a battle. This is a practical way forward that the county can choose through cooperation or confrontation. Please choose cooperation. Please reject customer use. the focus of this resolution
will will benefit the public or else we'll get into another legal fight. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Can I come in on that, Alfred? Alfred, I want to tell you that we are looking at other uh parcels for public use. And what I found out was someone else is from the wearing a yellow t-shirt also discussing it with the same person who is not selling us the property anymore. So, I think she's probably sabotaging the negotiations in this. So, we're going to have to start all over, but we need to look at the whole beach, all the properties out there. Community needs help. Yes. Okay.
Thank you so much, Alfred. We really appreciate your comments. Yes, sir. Thank you. Karen Roth, you're up. And Laura McGrath, you wanted to wave in support if you want to wave or do you want to speak? Okay. Noted. Yes, ma'am. My name is Karen Roth and I thank you for the opportunity to speak. My husband and I own property at Beach Colony for 15 years. I'm here to express my opposition to any attempt to impose customary use on the privatelyowned beaches of Purido. As taxpayers, as Al said, I do not believe this is the best use of public money in the county. If they want to
improve public beach access, then should focus on real public solutions, parking, facilities, amenities, and properly plan public access points instead of creating conflict by trying to impose public use on private property. I also want to address a comment made at the February meeting suggesting that property owners are somehow elite. This is simply not true. My husband and I worked hard for years to be able to buy this property. Like many others, we have invested our
savings into it. We accepted the financial risks that come with owning coastal property. Storms, erosion, prop uh damage, maintenance, insurance, and rising costs because this is our private property. Owning beachfront property is not easy and it is not cheap. We also pay high property taxes and spend a lot to maintain these homes and the beachfront, which helps support tourism and the local economy. If the county wants more public
access, then it should do it honestly. Buy it, negotiate for it, compensate for it. I appreciate um the opportunity to speak and thank you. Sam, thank you. Karen, we appreciate you. Laura, did you want to come up? No, I just I just want to point out that we are very compromis.
So after Laura will be Ally Brooks. I just want to point out that we had looked at some of the records and I don't know if this group knows this, but at one of the condos directly there on that beach, there are only four owners that live in Escambia County or even Florida. The rest of the owners that are keeping Florida residents, Escambia County residents off those beaches live out of state. They are investors. So,
I ask you to consider the needs of your citizens that live in this state. Next, we have Ally Brooks. Ally, did you want to come up and speak or did you want to wave? Ally, okay. Um, Daniel Cartier, is Daniel here? Okay. Thank you. After Daniel, we'll have Laura Taylor. Good morning. How are y'all doing today? Thank y'all for your time. But I'm an owner at Beach
Colony, so I oppose public use. Um, it's going to devalue our properties. We've all worked very hard to be able to afford one of these. And like Karen was saying, it's very expensive to own one, much less and just the maintenance of it. Then we're going to have everybody wants to come and use it for free. It's no different. I'm sure these people wouldn't want everybody at Beach Colony find out where they live and go sit on their front lawn, you know, bring out some barbecue pits and,
you know, have a party in their front yard. I'm sure they wouldn't want that either. But and the amount of tourism y'all going to lose, it's phenomenal how much money and tax money y'all going to lose by doing this as opposed to like with um Mr. Stro Burger is trying to do is find some other avenues for them to go to make it nice for them. But it's the loss. If our values go down of our condos, which they will if everybody's on the front of when you can't get to the beach,
nobody's going to want to come and rent it. Nobody's going to want to live there. You're going to lose a ton of tax money there because the value is going to say instead of being $800,000, be worth $400,000. That's a big tax base difference. Um, but we just hope y'all look at it with an open mind and how would y'all want to address if y'all were the owners of the place? And thank you for your time. Yes, sir. We appreciate your comments. Uh Laura Taylor, are you speaking or waving? You're going to speak. Okay. Um and after Laura will be friend Opitz. Uh
I'm Laura Taylor and I um frequently use beach access one. And according to the department of um Florida Department of Environmental Protection map, we are supposed to have 100 ft beachfront access there. And because of the crime scene tapes that have been placed there, we have 43 feet of beachfront. So I meant to ask Tim Day about this, but I don't think he's
here today. Oh, is he? Okay, there you are. Sorry. But anyway, it's on the Department of Environmental Protection map that we're supposed to have 100 ft. And really, I think all we need is just some dry sand so that we can continue to walk up and down the beach like we did in the past. And as it is now, we can't do that. Thank you. Thank you, Fran. Is Fran still here? Nope. Okay. Uh Diane Gould. Waving. Thank you, Kathy Gilmore. waving. Thank you. Sava Varazzo
Saba and then next will be Timothy Smith. My name is Saba Barazzo and I lived out there for 20 years. So you can look that up, Steve. I have to tell you that I've talked to a lot of old-timers. My family has come here in 1897. grandfather, father, all live to be near over a hundred. And I can tell you, I've heard not dozens, but hundreds of testimonies on how they use
that beach. For the record, if you look back far enough, you'll find out that the property owners, they're opposed to public access. There are people that got that property back in the day when the government actually deeded it for pennies on the dollar. Now, obviously, developers came along and compromised on that or capitalized on it, and they had to pay these high prices. We pay high prices too. The point that was brought out a few minutes ago is how much land you can take in testimonies I've been hearing is they said that from the time they went out
to they called it Gulf Beach then basically they learned how to swim, snorkel, pole fish, net fish, flounder, crab, catamaran sailing, skiing, participated in recreational sports of all kind on the beach including sanctioned, believe it or not buggy racing, volleyball tournaments, kite boarding and sailboarding. Those take place within about 20 ft of the transitional zone. The transitional zone is where the waves come up and go right back down. That's not going to impede these pre people's property value and it's not going to hurt anybody. And here's the
other thing these old-timers tell me why the county tax dollars or FEMA tax dollars that we pay taxes bought the property, renourished it to rebuild their property back. We paid for all that. Thank you for the time. I want you to think about all that. So that has a lot to do with it and look it up. Steve Saba Verazzo lived out there for 20 years. And when those condo owners came over and said, "We don't see the sunset. Can we come over to your side?" We said, "Yes." When I was working for the county and I did the lead command doing the emergency response and the oil spill,
they ran me off. They cussed me out. Appreciate your comments so much. Timothy Smith, you're next. And I got a question for Sava. Sava. So, did you give money to Commissioner Kohler's campaign when you were there at his campaign event? I give money to just about everybody that runs up here, I think. No, I haven't accept any money from you. Well, I'm not going to give it to you. I can tell you now if that's what you're asking. Thank you for your time. Tim Smith. Uh Tim Smith. Thank you. I just want to point out some of the obvious things I think
a lot of people are missing is that those beach access points, you know, they're called a beach access point for a reason. They've been there a long time. Those access points were there so we could access the dry sand. Uh, a lot of people have forgot about Hurricane Frederick that came through in 1979, right after that 78 thing and all your beaches had to be repaired and be replaced. I believe there was a compromise then. Probably a gentleman's understanding the way they did
things back then. They never thought that we'd be here today standing up here arguing about it. But um you know and the other thing is let's go back to 2018 and take a look at how many people were arrested out there by the sheriff. We can foyer that information and see how many people are actually out there arrested for trespassing on that sand. So just some things to think about. I got some for you Tim. How about this? Um you want more beach access. You live in Navy Point and you
don't want more people coming to Navy Point. You didn't want more parking spaces in Navy Point. You didn't get more You didn't get more parking spots, did you? There are no more parking spots. You don't want access to Navy Point, but you want more access to the beach, to private property. Okay. Next. Next, we have Keith. Keith, are you waving in support? You're waving big. Thank you, sir. Carlin Bell, I'll wave. We are waving as well. Thank you. Uh Charles Krepnik, you're
signed up to speak. Charles, you want to come on up? Um what Charles is making? Uh 15. Uh correct. Yeah. You Charles Krooknake, 14500 River Road, PK director and opponent of customer San Pedo Key. Usually we get to speak before a vote is taken, so this was highly unusual today, but I'll take my two minutes anyhow. It was unjust and biased to add customer use to this meeting's agenda at
the last minute. Our beachfront property owners and others concerned with the measure deserve much more time to plan their participation. But let me speak uh about numbers because it's what I had prepared. Last time someone stated there were 1500 Purito Ki beachfront property owners and 335,000 or so Escambia County residents with the implication they should have access to Purto Key private beaches. The 30 335,000 was not based on any survey of what residents wanted. But I'll
grant that if asked should there be more public access to public to Purito beaches many would say yes. But if the survey added uh this would mean taking away private property rights. Quite a few would likely say, "No, don't do that." Having gone through Escambia County tax records property by property, I'm confident there are about 2500 PTO Key beachfront property owners, not 1500. But comparing 335,000 to 2500 is really apples to oranges. 335,000 is composed of men,
women, and children, but 2500 is just the property owner. But owners have families even if some have more than one property or might be corporate entities. Families are involved and some with extended families. So maybe we should multiply 2500 by the typical family size in a merit in the United States of about 3.2 people giving us 8,000 people who may be directly affected by Purto Key beach access decisions. Whether it's 500, 5,000 or 50,000, imposing customer use on Purto Key would be taking private property where people have invested money
and lifestyle and without compensation. It should not be supported. Thank you. Thank you. Christina Gil, are you waving in support? Okay. Thank you. Uh let's see. Ben McClosy, waving in support. Broad Quinn Queen, did you want to speak or do you want to wave? Just waving. Okay. Uh, Eliza Lynch, waving. Thank you. Larry DS Jr., are you still available? Okay, Larry's out. Uh, Jackie Biller, waving in support. Did you want to speak? No. Okay. Uh, David Bear,
I could have waved, but if there's an opportunity to have two minutes to talk to you. Uh, so I think uh the community's access to our beaches is the responsibility of our county. Uh, I I think when I my family owned property out at Purto K. We've owned two properties. Uh, and in the time that we own them, I enjoyed watching the the public access the beach, walk in front of our property, and get to enjoy it uh, responsibly. Uh, just like
those who could afford who worked hard and could afford to live there and own those properties uh, could enjoy it. And I don't I don't think that this natural resource should be uh held uh privately. I think it's public. I think because we've allowed it in the past and I I'm no lawyer. I don't I haven't read the law on this issue and so I don't even really want to speak to it. But I know when we own the property, I was able to use it because one of our properties was on the north
side of the island and so the only way I could access it was to go through the properties and we were able to enjoy it without question without anyone else saying anything. And when we owned property on the south side face on the Gulfront, people enjoyed that property in front of us and I enjoyed watching them uh share that with us. And so I think it's uh I appreciate uh Commissioner Barry for making the motion to just collect data on this and and move this this conversation forward because like Commissioner May said, we keep bringing this up. We keep talking about it,
but nothing happens. We're just going to continue to do that and you're going to continue to have 50 60 people on both sides of this conversation come back to this DAS, continue to sign up and keep talking. So, as commissioners, thank you for taking this opportunity to to take action on this item one way or the other. I'm in support of customary use. Thank you. Thank you. Paul Sharlin, uh Lori Newman, did you want to wave in support? Yeah, I wave in support. Thank you. Gary Holt,
wave in support. Thank you. Justin Gills, you're waving in support. Thank you. All right. Yeah. I wanted to speak on the public use. I'm I'm in support of of them having public access, but I go back and think about the Native Americans. They sure were denied their public access the way we butchered them. We moved them around and they don't have access. They're told where to stay. They were almost eliminated and they were here first. And that that bothers me.
the way we've done the Indians. We can never make up for what we done to this country, forcing them because they weren't Christians to their thing. You're going to go here. We're going to put you in little reservations and not like one commissioner here's already complaining about Miss Pino because she's got the bayou. He thinks she has no business being involved in this. And that's sad. But, you know, just like back home in Mississippi, they're making the farmers give the river access on both
sides of the river because it's on their farmlands because people like to go in and fish in hook. And just because you got a river on your property, you can't stop the public from accessing it. And and that's a good thing is they're not hurt anything. There's not many people who fish like that anymore. But they're being told by farmers, we don't want you on your property as private. No. the the river. The farmer don't own the river. It's for the public's use. Thank you for your time, ma'am. Okay. Uh let's see. Keith Hall waving in support. Keith, are you out there?
Okay. Kristen Lurch waving in support. Thank you. Uh Diane Crel. And after Diane, we have Kevin Wade. Commissioner Stroberger, I'd like for you to look up some public records. And at the time I owned those condos in the early 80s. I was married Richard A. Pervvis and Diane M. Pervvis. I got divorced in 87. You're not going to use my time, sir. You're not going to use my time. I don't need you to lecture me. You're not going to use my time. Who didn't who didn't own it? You're not using my time. And you can go look it up. And then I've got divorced. I
own that those condos until 2004. So I appreciate you not taking my time. So I think I'm going to ask for a little bit more. And I just want to say and I had other things I was going to talk about, but I want to take a moment talk about what's happening in Walton County right now because the numbers are telling a story we can't ignore. In January at 2025, tourism development tax collections dropped significantly over 10% in South Walton. Thank you. And nearly 29% in North Walton compared to the year before. That's not just a statistic. That's fewer visitors,
fewer bookings, and less money flowing into our local economy. A big part of this decline is being linked to beach access issues. For many visitors, easy access to the beach isn't a luxury. It's the reason they come here in the first place. When that access becomes uncertain or restricted, it changes how people choose where they want to vacation. And this isn't just affecting visitors. It's impacting homeowners and investors, too. I personally know someone in Walton County who sold her condo at a loss simply because it was on the wrong side of the road without reliable beach
access. That kind of story is becoming more common and it reflects a deeper shift in how properties here are being valued. At the same time, there are ongoing discussions about changing how tourism funds are collected. Leaders are leaders are warning that even a 10% drop in visitors could lead to serious job losses. That concern that should concern all of us because it speaks to how interconnected our economy really is. What we're seeing here is more than a temporary dip. It's a combination of changing demand, local challenges, and uncertainty about the future. Like Walton
County, Purto K has always been a place people want to visit and invest. There's nothing standing in the way to restoring this economy. It does not require a complex solution. Next is Kevin Wade. After Kevin Wade, we will have Melissa Pino. Kevin Wade, 4 and3 Southeast Bobblets. Yes, we welcome people in Navy Point. Liar campaign signs are going to be coming. Remember this one? Doug Underh Hill, a trash talking bully who can't fix traffic.
Liar may be one of the new ones, right? You have a fiscal, ethical, legal, moral responsibility to get the Escambia County citizens on the beach and to do it well. Have you moved on purchasing land? your oppo research. You ought to if you're gonna do oppo research on citizens, you might want to start paying top dollar.
Your oppos research is as bad as your truth. Your fear of Indians, your fear of Indians, huh? Right. Exclusionary. You love that. Exclude them. Exclude them. Exclude him. Star decisis is out the window. Out the window. Star decisis means nothing anymore.
Past cases don't mean much at all. Star decisis completely destroyed by Scotas. Commissioner St. So, hold on before before you start, Melissa, I I don't know why you keep bringing up um Commissioner Underh Hill. He's been living rentree in your head for so long that I feel like I have customary use in your head, you know? So, it stop bringing him
up. I don't know why that's an issue for you, but I am separate. I'm separate. I'm making a decision on my own. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Next, we have Melissa Pino. And then after Melissa Pino will be Mary Annabet and then Mary will be our last speaker on this topic. Thank you Chairman Hoffber. The reason that we keep bringing him up is because we invested eight years of our lives to getting that man off the podium or off the deas. Um and then unfortunately he got replaced with something even worse. And if I if I were the condo owners, the one thing that I would ask of
you as representation is that you stop making ridiculous lies that are so easily contested on the day of what what name you miss. Chairman Hoffford, will you please write down pause it? Let's let's because she does deserve her two minutes. Write down what you disagree with and at the end you can speak about that. That way we don't mess up the two minutes. If you do now, if you do ask direct questions, he will answer those and that will take up your time. Yes, ma'am. So, so that you can lie again, I accidentally just butt dialed Will Mills during the meeting because
I had to go ask Tim Day what his name was because it's been so long since we voted for met with him to try to negotiate a price on more beach access, which you have still not purchased even though you've got funding for it. Randy, Cud, Kevin, and I went and sat and bought Mr. Will's Mexican to try to get him back to the table after Doug blew that deal on purpose. And all you've done is talk, talk, talk. So, next time when you come down here like a wana to be received by your loving condo
people, you don't need to be telling them that I'm psychotic because of my Lyme disease. Plenty of people told me about it. uh parking on Navy Point. I was the only Water View homeowner in Navy Point that threw down to get the public parking. Mike and I almost broke about it, begging more people to come and use that park and it is why we purchased here. Tim Smith is the one that led the charge to create the parking. He has had the police called on him and you tried
to get the man arrested for flying a drone. You encouraged our neighbors to call the cops on him when he parked down at the park. That's what a liar you are. Thank you. That concludes our minutes. Commissioner Shberer, we have one more speaker, but do you have comments before that speaker? Yeah. So, none of that's true. So, so let me tell you this. Let me tell you this about me. If you don't know who I am, close your mouth. Something's going to fly in your mouth. Hold on.
Is this is when I ran for this job, I said that I will never compromise my honor. I'll never dishonor my wife, my family. I do not lie. I have never said you were psychotic, though you may be. I never tried to get Tim Smith arrested and I never told the neighbors to call the cops. I never did those things. I don't know where you get this information, but it's baloney. I
don't do those things. I I I I haven't taken a red scent from Well, I'm I'm lying now. I'm lying now. I've taken I took 75050 bucks from two people that live on the beach. That's it. You said that I've been that I've basically in their pocket. It's not true. I am not. You guys have You guys have no idea. I'm self-funded. I'm an independent up here. I'm the one who can vote on I don't even think Mike Kohler should be able to vote on customary use because I think you were at his his
uh fundraiser and so was Kevin and and and so was Sava was there. I'd heard a report that Sava you were you said you weren't going to donate to his campaign. I'm talking now that you weren't going to donate to his campaign if he didn't put this on the on the uh on the agenda today. Did you donate to his campaign? Saba and your wife. Okay. So, we're going to move on to our last speaker. So, I here's my last thing I want to say about that. You guys aren't going to make these decisions.
We'll make the decision up here. And I may not dis I may disagree with what eventually happens but it's hard to imagine a more stupid this is a quote from Dr. Thomas Su. It's hard to imagine a more stupid or more dangerous way of making decisions than by putting those decisions in the hands of people who paid no price for being wrong. So you will not be negotiating with Will Mills. I will be talking with Will Mills. And I I heard just this week that you called him from someone else. seven years. I don't look that's what I heard. I'm not lying about anything. I'm not sure that's
relevant to the It's not important except for if I'm going to be discussing with somebody about beach access and you're going to hurt our idea of creating more public access by telling him not to because now he doesn't want to sell. I think we got a problem. Okay. Thank you. Where is Miss Mary? Are you here? Mary, I'm so excited to see you. You going to step forward? Thank you. Um, good morning. My name is Mary and Abnet and I'm a resident of and I'm a resident of Escambia
County. I am for customary use. Last week I took my grandson to the beach at Purito Ki. It was a relief to breathe the salt air, bask in the sun, and get some muchneeded vitamin C as we enjoyed sh excuse me, I'm nervous. sharing the beach with others. Um, there are around 1,500 condo owners fighting against customary use versus around 330,000 people who live in Escambia County.
Most lead busy lives. They wake up early, take kids to school, go to work, eat, sleep, and do it all over again the next day. When the weekend rolls around, they're exhausted and depleted, so they may take the kids in the car and drive to the beach. Kids play in the sand and water. Families relax and rejuvenate. The proximity and access to the beach is why most live and pay taxes here. Um, tourists spend thousands of dollars to get here, stay in hotels,
and support local businesses throughout Escambia County, mainly for one reason, the ability to access and enjoy our beautiful, god-given white sand beach. There's a biblical warning against building on sand. Perhaps the concern wasn't for the integrity of construction. Maybe it was intended that the beach not be blocked blocking off the beach by buildings, but be shared by the little kid with the sand shovel. Hopefully 50 years from now,
people will look back with gratitude and see this is a pivotal moment in time when the beach was preserved for posterity. Those who preserve the beach for future generations will rem will be remembered as having vision and foresight for the future of our great community of Escambia County. Thank you so much. Your time again and we are Are there any announcements from the board together? Thank you. Thank you. Are there any announcements from the board? No. Our next meeting is in about two weeks and we will see you then. Thank you all. All right.