all right good morning it is April 28th 2025 at 10:07 a.m we're meeting with IIAFF for continued bargaining uh my name is Nikki Pal HR director eric Gilmore public safety adam Harrison the Scambia Fire uh Wes Maro County Administration debbie Bowers county administration lincoln McDonald human resources janice Floyd deputy director HR nick Grady 4131 justin Markham 4131 jacob Dar 4131
the pen no I don't think so all right set up differently we'll pass these over to y'all that is an updated article 7 um because we did do a time and grade audit and we revamped the table for appendix D to a time and grade as per our last discussion i think article 10 you already have there's no changes to article 10
and then there was a little bit of a tweak in [Music] 13 for promotional procedures i think there was a question on the panel in 1304 or 13 1304 step 2B step two so we clean that up that should be everything [Applause] all right uh obviously have to look through them real
quick um you said there was only one pay scale you went time and grade on this back and this one here in the back okay um I know per where we left off was like we presented that pay proposal to you with the additional language um to keep from outpacing the scale uh did you cost that at all or why i guess our understanding was you'd come back with both options if in say
you're talking about years of service the time and service would be original so the years of service ended up being somewhere around the 1.8 mark with the additional cost out um but the discussion at the table seemed to be time and grade time and grade time and grade so we did the time and grade audit and this is the time and grade table so if the ultimate goal is time and grade then this is the offer that we have okay so is so you're saying it's outside of cost of what you guys can do is what you're saying yes okay and this fits in the 17 that you guys have committed
to this yes now this is the starting point i'm I said trying to get wrap my head around everything we're still under the impression the two and threeyear plan to to get these numbers up over the next couple years to keep pace with everybody you actually see I added that any across the board uh wage increase would be added to the table so that's part of this yeah no understand but what I'm saying is like okay those across the board raise they're great and they help kind of keep small chunks out of that right but as we go forward like I said I already know
midway October one's going over $17 an hour uh and then in October one they're going to $19 yeah those will be continued discussions but you got to get in must be used and that's that's all I'm saying that's on so but we still maintain the language as of this morning even budget said they are very concerned about about the offer that's on the table and I'm just that's I want to say as long as there's the appetite and and the commitment to move forward and continue those discussions based upon the MSVU that's what I'm trying to get that is on the agenda again for Thursday okay yes so who's concerned about the offer on the table like how so budget like how
how they're they're pulling this from reserves to pay you so if the MSBU doesn't pass they'll have to figure out some cuts in the general fund somewhere to to continue this okay all right uh I guess give us a couple minutes and let's go over these real fast um um article I do want to point out I did in article 13 uh sorry I forgot to mention it 1306 add the promotion part that we discussed so I I think I encompassed that and then um that it 13.04 if you look at uh one and
two it's just tidying up uh what that board looks like uh obviously our original intent was not to have a union and a chief officer actually grading the test it was a supervisory role to make sure that those people were there to make sure that that process aligned with the prop appropriate SOGS that language just clarifies that a little bit to where you actually see a panel that will be grading and then an advisory panel of those said individuals but it's still chief officers
from the surrounding area it's not just we grab anybody to make No no it says appropriate ranks as determined by the fire chief advisor panel will be appointed to include one ECFR chief officer and one collective bar unit member who shall assist the promotional board with any questions that may arise during the scoring process regarding SOG's best practices etc so so for that understanding is the scoring panel is what it is whoever you appoint on there however you'll have at least one ECFR chief officer and an appointed union official
uh to to assist so if they had a question if the grading panel had a question is this typically how y'all do business in this scenario then those advisory panels would be able to say yes that's how we do business or no we don't what we didn't want to have happen was one of a chief officer anybody that was in involved in the actual grading itself was excluded from that sure and we can let you guys look at it i just wanted to point out that was one of the sections in which Yeah some change and then you're so that was all
that was in 13 yeah there's no changes to 10 we just haven't TA it yet so it's it's whatever we've talked about in the last couple of times is in 10 uh seniority we change to meet your wage table a language for seniority for the wage table and uh that's it y'all want a break i can turn off the recorder and go I would if they want to take a break that we got forgive me i forgot about the uh putting it into 10 the the Benghazi thing um
that's in there yeah I I know and but we have a some additions to 10 we'd like to propose just kind of memorializing current practice apologize for the typo in the in the first paragraph though it'll be copied based on the PDF uh so I'll give this to you guys and it should be an easy addition to what's already in there um how many copies do you need a couple if you want to just give us one we can two we can go we can just talk about it in pockets sure like 22 cups yes 22 um like I
said it should be it's I think it's different from the actual where that fugi plays in at [Applause] She's saying it it is actually like it's as close to 1.7 as possible yes yes so and the other one was 1.8 8 which is outside the cost right okay just so we understand yeah and then um I think you had sent me another one that was a time and grade and if I went with that it went to 1.8 as well so that's what you'll see a little bit of tweaking to to this one but it's close to
what you sent just sure some tweaking okay to get it within that approved number yeah let's take a quick and I guess I'll message one of them yeah we'll look at this you me message us and you calm down yes all right we're back from caucus reporters back all right so uh we'll start off with the seniority article just just a question on
the second paragraph there um in the in the first and the last paragraph you have Escambia County Fire Rescue Division in that second paragraph you just said with Escambia County is the intent to say with the fire rescue division as well okay so just adding that to there to make it do you want to add that to yes please because it does change the clarification you say Escambia County well if you're working in the library and then come over to the division you still No no I'm sorry leave leave acrals you keep so the second paragraph leave acrals you keep across the county
so would that would that then mean a person that transferred from the sheriff's office would say 15 years the leave approval yes yes ma'am so they acrew a higher rate they would correct not just a existing balance transfer but they would maintain a higher leave and that's county policy so we were maintaining that county policy for acrruels yes ma'am but we added a separate kind of seniority for your wage table okay so that's what paragraph three there is for the wage table correct so your wages are based upon your seniority with the Scambia Fire Rescue correct your seniority if
you have it's paying homage to your county service essentially correct so paragraph 2 is leave acrals county service um parag and that is anybody that we have a reciprocal agreement with so right now we have reciprocal agreements with SOE the sheriff's office and I believe the clerk's office so anybody that goes back and forth between those three agencies can bring their leave or take their leave based on whatever their policy is um so that's paragraph 2 paragraph 3 is the wage table okay and that and like I said that's just that's in line with county policy as it
says yes okay but that has nothing to do if you leave completely and come back if you leave and come back for paragraph two we would follow county policy which is bridging your time within a year okay paragraph three is going to be continuous time so if you leave and you come back you start over okay so for the wage table for the wage table okay so just clarifying that so is that good yeah so Okay leaves go to county policy we tried to write something in there and then we decided
not to because like if you leave as a lieutenant you're going to come back as a firefighter there wasn't really anything that we could use that fit to put you back in there so we said "Well if you leave you leave that's it." Life stop choices says so if you come back within the year your seniority for your leave acral will be bridged but you'll start over on your wage table okay um all right
i wrote all over this one i don't know if you can give me a a clean copy and sign this one based upon that information um no I was just writing online do you have an article 7 there we go this has a note taking all right so article seven all right um article 10 I think um Chief Harrison yeah can you speak on that one
real quick i I think so we'd like to go back to our original article there were some things missing in the one that was in here uh and just sticking with that i think it it uh goes back to the 36 hours uh and describes the work schedule and the one we previously had okay so we would like to stick with the current one that's on the table paying attention yeah yeah
all right that's what we had question right right and then just hang on to that hopefully i know i didn't decide to steal one from Adam yeah that's right yeah all right uh 13 um did have a question it popped up here
um so 1306 and 1307 we've kind of ran into this a couple times and there's been different interpretations over the past something we kind of want to try to solidify um 1306 has it's it's very clear right the promotion to position lieutenant captain line battalion chief will result in 10% pay increase or the starting base wage for the possession whatever is greater right um when somebody is reclassified for that position and I say reclassified because you're moving from
a lieutenant to a battalion chief or lieutenant to uh or captain is battalion chief whatever it may be when we're out of class and we we get reclassified to the whatever pay grade is because we work more than two weeks the time frame to meet it uh some people have have gotten fiveish some we just so I went back and I went back and did an audit and it's been 5% and that but and that's what I'm saying is it's like we're moving these people and they're assuming those roles in those responsibilities it is a much higher
responsibility when they move into those ranks from fireman to lieutenant now you're a line officer responsible for three people multi-million dollar apparatus and stations it also I I understand what you're saying but it does go in line with county policy because county policy we have additional duties is 5% so that's what we give somebody who's stepping into the role is 5% and then if you get promoted you get the 10% but for stepping into the role an acting role whatever you want to call it it's typically 5% our our problem with that is now you're going to have people yes we're getting the the the class pay for it the out of class pay is a step in the
right direction but when you have a long-term vacancy nobody's going to want to step into that role for 5% especially when you you're talking about moving to a battalion chief level that is a huge responsibility he's talking about 1307 so 1307 just says basically reference article 20 which article 20 we already TA which is your out of class correct and that's where it was saying is is it can we just add into the acting ranks it says you know provided article 20 this agreement uh in 1306 so it guarantees the 10% if they're reclassified to or higher 10% for acting where
right now 10% or right whichever is greater you're talking about a per uh I'm talking about like an acting currently okay yeah i'm talking you've met that two weeks time and you're moving into their class over the 14 days yes correct yeah yeah and they get the 10% so it cuz we reclassify we don't temporary promote we don't do any of that stuff it's you reclassify to that rank so it should be afforded that 10% county policy says temporary reclassification is you're reclassifying
permanently that's what a reclassification is but they're permanent until something changes i mean we have temporary promotion so a year over a year is a temporary promotion yep because uh county policy is up to a year then we basically So they went past I mean in the examples I'm saying they were past a year so and that's in that example we took it to the board and got it approved to be more than a year okay i know which example you're talking about but we did take it to the board and get that approved i just it would be really good fa because these are we don't have
a bunch of people stepping up in these roles and they are taking a a huge responsibility uh for that i mean currently I can think of I think we have one person that's in that out of 200 people they don't step up because they don't nobody applies for the they're not stepping up because we're getting 5% instead of 10% basically what happens is like a scheduled surgery I'm going to be off for three months for a shoulder replacement something like that the person
that moves up but we have to change article 20 not article 13 so we've already TA article 13 we already t seniority too and we just reopened it so we have to bring back well we we talked about it that at the last session that we were going to have to change seniority if we went to time and rank so that there really is it's a it's a tenative simple green it's change it it's fine i can get with Kristen and have her change the language but I don't I can't get it to you today i mean for us to do anything we have to get a clean copy anyway so so but it's
just it won't be in 13 it will be article 20 that we have to change so I mean I think it'd be easier to clean it up to leave that one as it is and put it in 20 yeah i mean we can take it out of 13 yeah just you're not taking anything out of 13 yeah i think you can add a very simple line to article 20 that encompasses what we're discussing here and it's it's very simple instead of changing two it only changes absolutely i mean I don't what I'm saying is this this can stand but I got to bring back article 20 today with that agreement we can I mean we can sign 13
oh which one a 13 I got a clean 13 I mean I don't know Oh no I'll let him sign it first then you get your set i can use them all right usually it's me tell tell Mark we got to work on that same [ __ ] a little bit that's what I sign everything i got a lot more things I got to sign you you think 10
13 now 12 obviously changed a lot of things and I just need to get clarification on a lot of this because I I've obviously got to take this back to the emergency and these are questions I'm going to be asked and and need to be able to provide answers um so just to to start off and I'm pretty
sure this is what paragraph one is but just to get it verbalized and yes that if it's once ratified it goes into effect immediately after ratification from the board oh you're talking about appendix D not article 12 yeah sorry I mean yeah article 12 it's associated with yeah um appendix D yes correct once it's ratified by the board right first full pay cycle after ratification by the board okay um and now the next part of it kind of that next paragraph it's kind of wordy for us as firemen right we've talked about this being a a working document for us because anything
goes in we go to this so we need to be able to understand it um so any across the board living adjustment wage increase that may be approved by the BCC and provided to all other county employees will be applied to this base wage rates for each bargaining unit classification by the amendment to this agreement so basically are you saying by doing that so it goes the starting weight that's what we're saying that starting column right it's going to shift the whole scale it's going to shift so it's going to apply throughout the whole scale everything will shift that same yes
okay uh the next part is current incumbents in each borrowing unit classification receive a pay increase not to exceed the applicable hourly wage rate for time of classification rank as provided in the amended pay scale or maintain the current hourly wage whichever is greater So what what is that saying so if essentially if this is implemented I got I got five that would be above it so the previous one we actually had 10 about 10 we only got about five that would
be capped so that's essentially what that means if they're already at the rate they stay at the rate so if the scale shifts and they're still at the rate they stay at the rate but if the scale shifts and it would give them a slight increase they'll get the the higher rate so if the board does a 3% and they're above whatever that where they're supposed to be they just maintain they maintain so they would not receive what all other employees are receiving the scale is going to move and wherever they are on the scale if that if they're still above whatever that scale moves
to they're going to stay there if they are below what that scale moves to they'll get that increase so you only have five that are impacted and I know at least one of the five will get something get the scale shifts in October i didn't look at the other four to be certain okay because the intent is to get a scale that works with compression that has
the people with the same years of service earning the same pay all right so basically in October like everybody essentially will get 3% except for possibly the five that are capped now it depends on where they're at in the scale i know that one of them will at least get something i I didn't look at the other four i was using one person as an example but I looked at to see I got five that would be capped out at implementation of those five will they get something in October i don't know i can't say until I go look at what
that would be so I mean that's the intent that's I mean we It's just hard when you say across the board raises and they don't get anything and that's kind of where the hangup's at historically people in classifications who were quote capped still received across the board as every county employee receives so it's it's hard to agree to something that that changes what past practice has been for years not necessarily it there's language that is read by either I think you read it there's language that's read by West during the budget hearing
that speaks to that and I do have employees that have been capped and they don't receive anything not saying I haven't missed it the only time I recall there being any Yeah we haven't I haven't had them fire i have them elsewhere in the county but yes right when you're refer Yeah but you're talking about executive class like higher classification i am not okay if you're on this pay scale and it caps here mhm that's And you what would that language sound like because I I don't
recall hearing that at all something along the lines of this excludes blah blah blah blah blah must stay within because there's there certain positions are excluded like your lifeguards your lifeguards do not get a pay increase period they don't get any so they are always parted but I'm just saying they're all parttime they're all excluded no part-time employees are not excluded lifeguards are so that's why I say you have to listen to the language and that's why I say blah blah blah because it is technical when he reads it okay so we've we've never had a situation in fire
in fire where an employee a bar member whatever you want to call them part-time full-time whatever has ever been excluded from an acrosstheboard increase because they never the scale correct i understand that what I'm saying is we've never had that occur before and we've served under all kinds of various scales that didn't make a lick of sense but yeah it is but what I'm telling you is when I did all of the research and I reached out to all of these other agencies they cap their people if they're doing a time and grade and you got Yeah their scales are a lot healthier than
this one too though you You get capped there yes ma'am and if you want to sign it you don't have to sign it that's No Nikki you're being incredibly defensive right now you really are all I'm saying is we're we're changing something that has been past practice for a really long time that's it and it's again he's got to be able to explain this to to people even if it is five out of 200 even if it is that even if it's one he's got to be able to explain these things to folks you already pulled one proposal back off the table that over a hundred of our people voted in favor of i didn't
pull anything off yes you did the seniority proposal was on the table and when we asked for clarification on it you changed the way that you were presenting it that's okay it's in the past we're where we're at now but he has to be able to explain these things can I please finish he has to be able to explain these things to the membership in order to get a vote across right just like you got to explain it to your proposal from the table in the discussion last time question was because I can't give you two proposals but it is still on the table if that's what you want to to TA you can
TA what was given to you last time but it doesn't include the outpacing language the what that that language represented back to you it doesn't include that no it does not that's my point you presented it one way we tried to present language that clarified what we thought the intent was you disagreed with that but then 10 minutes later when you were explaining it your explanation backed up what our clarification was but then you had to go back and cost it and now all of a sudden it's a
little bit out of price range and that's fine it is what it is things happen the intent was always to cap it the language that you presented was to remove the cap so removing the cap I recosted and yes it would be a little more to remove the cap so if you want to go with years of service that was on the table time and grade was the discussion that was had everybody at the table said that would be the best way to do it that's the way we need to go so that is the proposal for today okay i didn't take anything off the table i added this proposal as today's proposal so where where we
sit on this is say I go back to my members we've other than wages and was it the the duration uh is the last one and and let me just clarify this too whether we we say we want to do time and that time of service that was one that's the one we want or we want this one that's right here today um we there is still the language that says it'll be in duration I believe we can reopen wages immediately after ratification in the first year can we take a break for a minute sure let's take a break
all right we're back from caucus all right and like you said you kind of gave the clarification I needed to take back about that other scale like the language we presented to to say you want to outpace the scale and everything else that's not included that pretty much that was the stipulation my members agreed to right so that kind of drives us to this one now okay so with that being said um if we were able to do a ratification vote could you carry that on at the 15th meeting
i believe it's the 15th 15th i believe it's the 1st and 15th I think i could be wrong maybe the 13th i got one on the first we got one on the 15th yep so if I can get you one by by Monday or Tuesday next week I would say Monday yeah that's our next schedule on Monday right so if we can guarantee aid with that article 20 today how could you get me a clean copy i can't speak for legal i will try obviously because I need that clean copy to present i understand but I I
can't speak for legal i will do my best i'll ask Christian okay um article 20 with that language in it we can go ahead and say sign that off now article 12 here you have the old language under paramedic pay theou should take precedent but it's not reflected in the language presented here oh my goodness this is what she sent me yep so I'll get her to fix that good catch um all right that was not
intended let's see yeah if we can clean up that language in 12 there give it article 20 and I mean I don't want to TA when it doesn't say the right stuff but no I get it i didn't even I can verbally say yeah with that those corrections we can go ahead and TA it all now again it was kind of we were going before the caucus is that language will remain that we've discussed about reopening wages
uh by either side immediately we don't have to wait the one year that'll remain in the duration clause right duration we discussed it that's where it would go is being able to open it up because our the two and threeyear plan the long-term plan is dependent upon the MSBU and I think that was the intentions so if something is settled in the next month or two with that I was thinking of language we would um when it goes through the two public hearings we would start collecting October one right take a little bit of collection to well it would I mean even if say hey they've
locked it down in in June is like hey this is what it's going to we know how it's going to look but allow us to get back to table to start discussing how does our our plan going forward to kind of get to those numbers we need to be at in the next two years that was the intention was I mean it may not be immediately effective but that's what those talks would be about but it allow for if we don't do that language then we have to wait the one year for matification before we can even talk about it so we can we can go that language okay so the duration would say basically essentially either side can open wages within the first year they don't have to
wait the one year for the opener okay y if if we can get those a clean copy with all that I think I can go take it to a ratification vote okay all right i will send Kristen an email as soon as we walk out of here i think she dropped off and uh see if I can't get those done and uh if I can get those done what I'll have her do is send me the entire document okay and then if you look at 1220 in duration then you'll have it to take to ratification you'll have
the whole thing um but if 1220 and duration is not up to standards just send me something back okay i think that'll be the easiest and I get the whole document over to you um instead of having to peacemail meal it send you a couple and then turn around and send you the whole thing for gratification anyways right and uh you said no later than Monday to get it carried on yep okay well let's let's work on getting a clean copy together and we'll see if we can get get some business done we'll go see Kristen here in just a minute all right
good good work nice work guys thank you thank you thank you appreciate it