Is this everybody? We're good. Okay. So, we are going to use the mic. Can you hear me? Okay, wonderful. We're going to officially call this meeting to order. So, welcome you um guys for being here and being a part of this committee to help us streamline our grant process and make sure that we are being consistent. Was this meeting properly advertised and noticed? Madam Chair, this meeting was uh properly noticed in the uh Pensacola News Journal on the 15th of January in the board's weekly meeting schedule. Wonderful. And will you do the roll call for us? Absolutely. Matish Patel here. Shirley Cronley.
Ray Palmer here. Ashley Hoffberger here. Darren Schaefer here. Maria Goldberg here. And William Banks here. Quorum. Wonderful. Um, so I'm excited to start with this. I think there's a few of these items that we could probably tackle sooner than later um that will take a little bit less time. I think the easiest one is probably what does everyone think about having a
required meeting for any grant applicants. It's something that Impact 100 does and I've noticed other communities do the same with their TDC dollars. I think um Commissioner I think it'd be great. We we we do do it for impact 100 and it just kind of gets everybody on the same page as to what the rules and regulations are. We also do the same thing for um Fufufest when they're applying for an agrant. We have what we call a kickoff meeting where we do here are the rules,
here's what you can do, here's all this, here's the deadline, call us if you need help. Um so, so I do think that it would be an incredibly beneficial thing to be able to do. Yep. I also agree at Visit Pensacola for our event grants, we do at least six workshops uh that are held at different times of the day, different days of the week to try to accommodate everybody's schedule and we do the same thing. We go through the application. We uh answer questions. We talk about the marketing, what the money can and cannot be spent on, and uh it's a requirement
in order to receive a grant that you attend at least one of the workshops. Is there a way we can piggyback on the workshops you're already offering? I don't see why not. Okay, I like that. The only thing I'd like to say is I know the Visit Pensacola grant workshops are usually done before the grant deadlines. So, I don't I know we've had I've seen we've seen TDC folks come to the TDC way outside of that time. So I don't know if people will always plan that far in advance to know that
they should go to a workshop and then come to TDC. So some people may miss an opportunity if it's only with Visit Pensacola's and our deadlines are a little different. So applications have to be received by June 1st. So we do those workshops April and May. Um, so depending on the deadlines for the county, which typically is April 1st, they would have to be done like February and March. I I do um I do have a a little concern with with piggybacking them
um because there is and Darren you can probably speak more to this is that we don't want to create confusion to the grantees as to what pot they might be you know kind of going for and visit has different regulations and and rules and you know what they've got to do as to whatever the TDC ends up going with and so I would hate for there to be a oh well I thought that I was covered by this and it might create more it might create more confusion that makes sense that's a good point both of those okay personally I think what business I think
that we should stay with the course that we are on because those applications have to be in on April the 1st um sometime I hear from Allison the applications are not in on time and you it just create a whole lot of confusion that I don't think that's necessary for receiving TDC funds people don't get their application in on time, then that creates a problem. Then they don't get funded. Then they going to say, "Well, I didn't know about this or my email wasn't." It just create a headache. I think if the system is not broke, there's no need to fix it.
So, I'm excuse me, I'm gonna figure out how to talk. Um, [clears throat] I'm going to be in the middle here somewhere. I'm gonna suggest that it become a recommendation, but not a requirement. We have, for example, we have applicants that are from all over the country and they're not going to necessarily be able to come. Now, if you to online, you could potentially do that, but they apply for support from organizations all across the country. We we take as part of our job
is to help them fill out our grants. Now, if we're talking about how does Pensacola Sports going to manage their grants, are we talking about a separate grant for the tourist development council? And the reality is is the the unified budget was originally designed to be the vetting of these grants. And the TDC was going to direct them if they were arts to ACE, if they were sports
to Pensacola sports, and if they were anything else, they were recommended to go through visit. We all have V grant programs at work within our system. What we're talking about is a different grant program. So for for what the TDC needs to do, again, I think it's a recommendation. There are people that do it. If I got to go every single year to see something I already know, I would I I would suggest we don't need that. The the reason I asked on this is the feedback from
staff is we very rarely get applications that are done correctly the first time and it is taking a lot of energy and time from our staff and it's hard to continuously give out money when it's easier to get money from us than it is the bank or impact 100. Well, and and again, just what what what we have found is that if if and it's the same thing for ACE as well. They have to they have to be present uh for the grant. Same thing for Fu of because it shows that you have skin in
the game and that you can look me in the eye and you have that, you know, that accountability where you you know who the person is and you're able to and you can um cut through a lot of the chaos and clear things up before those those things happen. and and if this is indeed the separate, you know, through TDC, it's not going to be pushed out through the unified and it's through y'all's pot is that that that creates um I just believe that that creates accountability. And also two, the folks that you are funding are not out of town people. The folks that oiling week was
but they're but they but they're but they have representation here. Not officially. They're all out of town. They're from Italy. But they're here for like and that's just what I pardon me assume. But I thought that Luca was here and Bobby Switzer was here on their behalf and I thought that there were local people that were here on their behalf. But that's not who's filling and we picking on but one they that's who filled out their application. Well, but maybe moving forward if that is a requirement that [clears throat] will be who fills out the application because I mean,
don't we want to be able to to to to see touch and and to have accountability for the people that we're giving money to? I think that at least from what I've heard in in the past, it's it has been uh money is given to not all of them, but some of these organizations and they don't show up. They don't fill out a paperwork correctly. They don't submit a final report. They just take the money and do whatever they're going to do. And there's no there's no there's no, you know, there's none of that. So, a couple things. If you're an organization requesting funds, I think
it's okay that there may be a few hoops to jump through, whether it's the paperwork or attending a meeting. I saw in a couple of the applications where if you were a firsttime applicant, you had to come and sit in on that meeting to understand how it works. uh but someone who has been maybe a second or third or longer recipient that was uh recommended but not required but for the first time a good idea um so even I think with uh foiling week I mean they did come and
make a presentation I think but it wasn't it was outside the norm of the process when they first came in Any [clears throat] further discussion on that one? Just to ask a question. So, if we decide to require on the first request or I guess technically everybody would be a first because nobody's really had any official TDC grant training. Who would provide that? The county. So,
the county staff would put that on. Okay. Yeah. And we can of course attend that meeting so we know what's going Yeah. Right. So for my notes, we're essentially making recommendations to the TDC board. I guess I I need a vote to solidify a recommendation. What is Philip? Yes. Okay. So it sounds as though we're all on the same page. we should you're saying no we don't need to do that or you don't want to put on a class [laughter] maybe all that would come over here but um basically maybe maybe what I'm what I'm hearing um maybe council your spelling council maybe
there's a meeting where you have this training at a TDC meeting you know just like go through the application publicly right so that's kind of what I'm hearing I think that's what I'm hearing um you wanted to do like that like the pre thing the council could actually do it. It could be part of the council meeting. So I just want to throw that out as an option. That's a good idea. might might solve that issue and hey maybe that happens um like the first of March or February or whatever time the TDC meeting falls normally maybe February kind of like that premeating because our
applications um typically go out right around the first part of March and they're due April 1. So that gives everybody a month to complete. So that may be something again happens February and then move forward that way. What if somebody doesn't know they're going to have an event till May that they're going to have an event in December? So unfortunately you you can't plan for every process. We have to have a process. It has simply has to be a reasonable process.
Right. Now ultimately that's up to council. If you want to hear things that fall outside of that, that's up to the council. Council can address those on a case by case basis. I mean, that's cool. I think it's a good idea because the TDC is the one that is making the recommendation whe I agree. So I would need someone to make a motion that we do hold required meetings for
firsttime applicants and recommended meetings for subsequent applicants. And then we also recommend that we make that part of the TDC re regular meeting scheduled. Can can that potentially is that I mean anybody's made a motion. Are we still discussing? I want to make sure this is clarified that this is not applicable to anybody under the unified budget because I have my own process. You do your own thing. That's why I want to make sure to come to TDC. I think I'd like to have it in this that this is people who are coming directly to the TDC. This is strictly for folks coming
definitely to TDC, not for people going to ACE or Fufu visit Pensacola or Pensacola Sports. You guys have your own money and you do your own thing with it. Understand? Yes. So, thank [clears throat] you for that clarification. I got a question. So, so Ray, basically, basically what you're saying and for me to have a clear understanding. So, this is not across the board. Basically, what you guys are saying that everybody have to do this, you know, ACE don't have to do it. Downtown improvement board don't have to do it. Um, Fufu Fest don't have to do it. V Pensacola don't have
to do it because they already have their little program where they where they giving funds. Is do I read that right? [clears throat] I'm right. but [snorts] everybody else. So, this is going to be is this going to be mandatory or is this going to be on a voluntary basis? So, it would be mandatory for firsttime applicants and then recommended for each Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. All right. That's good. I'd like to make a motion to have this training um held by all first-time applicants,
not applicable to visit Pensacola, to the unified budget, visit Pensacola, Pensacola Sports, or ACE. Um and then recommended after the first. Do we have a second? Second that. I'll second that. All in favor? I passes unanimously. Thank you so much. Um, does anyone have a preference on what item we tackle next? I want to see talk about the hotels. Okay, let's talk about hotels. Let's
talk about how they how we want to how people prove that they did x amount of nights. Thanks, Phil. Thank you. How people can prove that they did x amount of nights in hotel accommodation. I think that's very important because everybody come up with their own little numbers and showing no proof about how this is being done. So I think that the best way my my suggestion and based on say if you have an event and say you going to use you recommending all your attendees to use maybe
five or six different hotels and that you connect with those hotels and that those hotels maybe set up something special. maybe we give you maybe a discount or something for actually coming to this hotel and at the end of that event then you can go back to those hotels and they could tell you how many room nights you sold. For example, for the G Coast Summerfest, I use High Point Corporation. I use all the hotels at the end of the event. I know how many people stayed in their hotels, how much how what the discount was and the whole nine yards. So I ain't have I don't have to guess at
how many people stayed in those hotels. I think we need to have something like that because anybody can say, "Well, yeah, I stayed over here. I stayed out at Portoino. I stayed here. I did a thousand room nights." You have no way. You got people need to be able to prove those. I've been proving those room nights since I've been doing this. So, I think everybody should be required to actually um um prove those room nights. I don't know how you going to work that with say Pennsylvania Sports Association, you know, how how ACE going to do it, but that need to be some type of guidance on how we're going to established that people stayed in these rooms. Even though even though
um to be honest about it, there's nothing up under the statute that actually requires that. And I do have an issue with that. After actually thoroughly um um going through the statute, there's nothing in the statute. that's associated with room nights. So, where where where did this come from? But anyway, since we here, [snorts] if we gonna do that, I think people should um actually be able to prove how many rooms they produced and also buy the hotels, not you coming in and say, "Well, I
did this." Something from the hotels that you used that would give a leather to prove your point. So, I've um technology-wise I met with Nicole Geese Lesson at the Haw Center and they have an AI program where they can essentially geoence an area and they can tell you how many people came to that area on the specific dates and then they can tell you where those people are from. So, if we wanted to make a rule that outside of Escambia County, we're counting those as outsider guest,
we could do that and that would be a much easier way. There's a fee for that. She said for probably around $3,000 an event, they could run those numbers. So that is an option if we wanted to make it easier and have a consistent way to do it. I I just want to throw that out there. I think it wouldn't be any cost if I stayed at his hotel. I connected with his hotel. these many guests coming to their hotels and they actually saying we're coming to this stand at this hotel to attend this specific event in Pensacola, Florida. His office notate that at the end of the
event, this promoter goes back to his hotel, his hotel, and your hotel. And you got data to actually show most people ain't going to have $3,000 to spend on some type of geo fencing. I tried geo fencing one time and it did not work for me. It just didn't. So, I think we need to have a paper trail or something where people can actually prove that they stayed at these hotels and they brought in this many guests. I mean, it's simple and it don't cost them anything. So, just one one point I just want to make clarification is that what we're talking about
here is only pertaining to the monies given away by TDC. That is correct. Not sports, not visit, not ACE. Well, the the sports association or visit like visit Pensacola, they can tell you how many rooms nice that they have when they have an event or when they they know how many people they actually bringing in to scam county. Is I'm wrong Darren on that that you you know how many people you actually bring in here? How many people actually stay in hotels that's coming to Pensacola
or something that visit? We know we can't count the Blue Angels because we just don't know. Okay. But do we actually have data to be able to prove that Visit Pensacola or Pensacola Sports Association or ACE or any of these other organizations that's can prove that these people are actually coming here for this specific event like for the volleyball or what's that call that basketball tournament that y'all have already? You see what I'm saying? We know people coming in here for that. you know they are buying tickets for that and on that ticket if they are using the
Bay Center if they are buying those tickets and those tickets are ticket master tickets I don't know if they are or not but if they're ticket master tickets every ticket that you sell to that baseball I mean that basketball tournament it shows where this person come from cuz they using a credit card shows what city they out of and everything so it's a way to really actually track this if you want to really track it the easiest way is if the proper events that are put together, if they provide their attendees a rate code, then any hotel that's booking that can give you if they
want real details, they can give you details by each customer or they can just give you, hey, this rate code Jazzfest produced right 600 room nights. It's and the sports are that's why sports is so easy because most people come in and they've even when they submit their grant application, they usually have lowered it down to two or three hotels they're going to use. the teams are going to use. So, like I said, I use all High Point Corporations. It's easy for me to call Christy over there, Christy Madison at High Point Corporation, say I need to know how many people
stayed in all these hotels and how much money it's costing me for these hotels and she'll send that to me and I know and I can turn that in. So, so they use a rate code for they use the rate code. They give it they give a rate where a hotel might cost $200 a night. They might cut it down because they're attending the Jazz Fest to maybe 150. You see, so it can be done where you can really really track it. I like the rate code. How does that look as far as reporting? Do do you just give the promoter a report and say this number? Yeah. So, normally like let's say he's having Jazzfest,
then he'll set up a a rate code with the hotels. When guests call in, they would know that they're trying to get a discount or the group code for Jazzfest. So, when we type it into our computer, whatever we've discussed with uh Mr. banks, that's the discount they would get. So, normally hotels will try to give some sort of discount so that that incentivizes the guests to use the rate code and not just go online and try to find their cheapest rate they can. Um, and most people that attend events, if they know their friends are staying at a specific hotel for Jazzfest, they all want to stay at that hotel. Um, so the rate code is the easiest way, I think. Um,
if you're not trying to spend money because most hotels, now it goes back on uh whoever's holding the event, they'd have to go back to the hotel and say, "Can you please give that to me?" And some sales people are quick and then some people are busy and may not give it to you right away. So just that that falls on the hotel. I [snorts] like that. So yeah, there's a couple different ways. That's that's a great way. Rate code, market code, or some properties are able to provide links that they provide the promoter and if you click on that link, it takes them straight to that hotel's page with the rates and they're able to track it that Well, on my website, all the hotels that I use,
if you go to my website, basically what you going to see, you're going to see all these different hotels and all these hotels have what they have a a jazz fest code. So, when people with the phone number to that hotel so when they call that hotel and they give that code, the people at the hotel already know that these people are going to attend um the Jazz Fest. So, they get that the discount. Only time I have to worry about when it's all way over and I, you know, they get paid and then I ask for the record for all these people that stayed and then I go back and if I don't already have
an email on all these people, I just enter them into the website. So next year I got new people that I send that back out in an email blast to them and they go to the website and they see the hotels. [clears throat] So the rate code and the links work the same. They're the same. Okay, I like that. So, what about and forgive me because I don't I don't know this y'all hotel years and and and uh lodging folks of what if they are and I don't know how this in the in the score of things of if they are staying. So, I guess what I'm trying to think about is that I would hope that
we would come up with some kind of a scorecard that we are going to give to whoever's applying through the TDC money and saying, "Here's what we're judging you on." And y'all on the score of 1 to 10 can rate each one of them and come up with a score. It's it's something that we do for food that works really really well. But that hotel stays one aspect of this scorecard. It's not, you know, it's like one thing, but what about um those folks that are coming in town, but they're
staying with friends and family? What about those that are staying in I and that's what I'm saying. I don't I don't because they are still creating an economic impact. They not may not be staying in a hotel room, but they are still going to eat at the fish house. They're still, you know what I mean, going to they're still paying their taxes. So, so it's not just about I I I absolutely hotels are are are a huge part of this, but there are other parts as well. And this is one component I believe of the full what what the TDC should be scoring these applicants on, not just that. Well,
most people what happened to solve that problem is a simple solution to that problem. If Ray is doing a championship basketball game, [snorts] some of these people got family here in Pensacola that they gonna stay with the family members. But when they attend that basketball game, Ry has a survey company in place that's going to survey that event, whether they stayed at a hotel, stayed with their cousin, or whoever they stayed with. And then that's going to be tallied up. So that
way you know how many people that attended that event even though you might not know specifically less for the hotels how many people stayed [clears throat] at the hotels. You see what I'm saying? So there's a But what if it's not a ticketed event? Well, that's something we going to have to get to if it's not a ticketed event cuz you could have you could have downtown improvement board say they got 200,000 people walk down Palifox Street and we know 200,000 people cannot get on Palifox Street. Correct. But you so so they'll come up with well we had 200,000 people so we did a million room
nights. That's virtually um impossible. I know. See I believe what's good for the goose is good for the gander. What apply to one event have to apply to all events. If I'm required to turn in a survey every event that's receiving money should be required to turn in a survey. Now surveys are expensive. I found out you can actually pay for a survey through through your TDC funding. Yes. So, we're back to the cost center situation and making it a required part. We could require
that if we give you 10,ou you asked for $10,000 and we're like, "Yes, but we also need a survey from the HOA center. So, here's $13,000 so you can also pay the host center to do that survey." So, that's an option as well. We do. So for ACE, we do use uh the hot center every year and we also do intercept surveys. We also um pass out little cards with the QR code so people can take surveys from there. We also do the geo fencing. We do all three of those things. And ACE uses part
of their funding that they receive from TDC to help pay for those expenses. See, I never knew that you can actually use the funding to pay for the survey. So I just been paying for it out of my pocket. But I was educated. I was educated by somebody on the TDC board. No, well, you ain't got to do I mean that you could use funds, you know, but it's it's an incredibly helpful tool because then what that allows us to do as ACE is that we're able to the HA center, which you know, so we we're out of it. It's it's in a third-party source and they put together the whole report.
They put together an executive summary and they put together a hole for whatever. Let's just say for Fufu Fest for the two weeks of Fufu Fest. We do all of these these things. We survey, intercept, survey, we geoence, we do all of this stuff and then they are able to produce a report that says what the economic impact or return on the investment of how much money that we got from TDC through the unified budget, how how far that went and and and for for for ACE,
it has proven to be a a very helpful tool and we have been able to to not only um um prove, but but it it it kind of gives that documentation of fact, which is a nice thing for anyone to be able to have, whether it be the individual organizations or whether [snorts] it be the commissioners or the TDC members or whatever. It gives them that that backup to say, well, this is why we funded this because look at what they're doing for our community.
So, at Visit Pensacola, we use our research agency, Downs and St. Germaine, for any uh grant applicant that gets an award. Um, that includes a uh survey that's done by Downs and St. Germaine. So, that allows us to be consistent to your point that uh every applicant is uh going to be able to provide a report on the attendance and the economic impact. Now that survey, the one uh through Donald and Jones WF it's going to depend in part on information that the event promoter
provides. So, if the event promoter provides attendance numbers that are not verifiable numbers, that can really skew uh the results. And that's and that's something that when we looked at uh foiling week and we looked at the numbers, we're like, there's no way those numbers are right. And so, they reported numbers differently than how we would typically report numbers. And so, when that was adjusted, the numbers came down. It was more it was more realistic. Um,
and that was before they finally gave all the information to our downs in St. Germaine to to finish that study. But I think having a consistent study that everybody has to use makes sense. Well, in my situation, um, Erin, my survey, the survey company I use that visit Pensacola used to use majority opinion survey. Well, what they want from me, I have to produce the numbers from the ticket sales. They want to know how many tickets were sold. So I have to get that
and turn that in to them. And then they don't never talk to me. So you know how it go. They send they people out there to survey the event and that's that's that's basically it. I think the challenge is some events are ticketed. So you that's where a problem that number. We're talking about Sunb Belt Conference basketball championship. We can look at those ticket sales. Yes. Come through ticket master. That's great. And that's part of the evaluation. We look at each team and what they bring in for athletes and spirit teams and cheerleaders and coaches. Um,
and athletic events are great. You know, the double bridge runs got all the registration from everybody who's participating in the event and we can track that aspect of it. As far as spectators that travel with those individuals if it's part of the registration question, um, you know, you can track that. Some some events are pay to play where you've got to stay at these specific hotels in order to play in that tournament. Um I don't know how many of those we have but in other markets I've seen it. Um so not but not every event. Seafood festival Marty Gro if
they're not tracking attendance then it's what's the attendance of Marty Gro? Well and that's why I like the the host center uses place or AI. So it literally geoences the whole area and then gives you the count of people there. It's tracking cell phones. Yes. But it pulls out the duplicate. So I have my watch and then my cell phone. So it would pull out the duplication. Why can't they just use Eventbrite and the and the event organizer just issue tickets. Those tickets are numbered.
Eventbrite going to look at how many that go on Eventbrite. If you're not, say if you're not charging, say if it's a free event, you can still use Eventbrite. You can go on Eventbrite. You you you connect with Eventbrite. They'll set up the ticket sales. Yeah. But nobody's going to do that from Marty Gro. Well, how you get the numbers? That's what we're talking about. Cuz Martyra said they had 100,000 people last year [laughter] at the Marty. I feel like I threw over 100,000 beads. I'll tell you. I mean, that's the beads. Come on. [laughter] Like, whoa. you know,
so that's that's I think that need to be talked about later or try to figure somebody come up with a idea how you can track it. I mean I use geo fencing. The reason I use geo fencing one time it was that my competitor is Panama City the the the Seabbze Jazz Festival. Okay. And I wanted to get inside of the jet. I wanted to get inside of Seabbze cuz they weren going to let me in there
pass out no flyers. So I come up with this company that was doing geo fencing. And so they told me, "Oh yeah, it cost me about $2,000. We could give me the longitude and the latitude and we could put you dead in there. And anytime anybody get within that range, it's gonna show up on your phone. Guess what? It ain't showed up on my phone yet. Right. So, how many folks did you have at the last Jazzfest last year? About 3,500, something like that. Yeah. But it's just you got to get the
geo. I mean, maybe they didn't got better with it cuz that's when it had kind of first came out. It was kind of new to geo fencing. I haven't used it since then cuz I was disappointed in it. You know, I had friends of mine down there. I say, "Listen, are you showing anything? I don't see you on the geo fencing or nothing." So, and and I they had the right they the one who gave me the longitude and the latitude for it, but it it never actually So, I actually pulled it for the last three years for Jazzfest and you're almost spot on with the geo fencing from the host center. Well, I sure ain't seen that. [laughter] You pulled a fast one on me then. I'm going to get you for that. Just
hold tight. I'm coming. I did. So, I keep this review. That's all for you. Yes, sir. So, I'm spot on. You're really close. I know what I'm talking about. You're really close. Okay. Thank you. So, it's got it's got the information on there. Now, why you just pull mine? I wonder. Well, because if your numbers were off, I wasn't going to call you out on it. You just in case. I was If my number was wrong, you wouldn't have called me. You would have called me out. Not right here. No, you would have called me somewhere else. Come to your office like in private. Yes. Yeah, but I'm right on spot. Right on. Okay. You're You're really close. So, but that's that's the
type of reports that they can do with the the geo fencing and telling you where those who else who else you pulled up. I just pulled that one because I knew you were cuz I knew you were going to be here [laughter] picking on me. So, so back back to this. It It sounds like we feel like there needs to be some kind of measurables in place and we can give them options for Well, but there's and this is That's one component of of like a a bigger thing. But again, we need to
figure out how that's going to happen. Whether it is, you know, hotel rooms, whether it is intercept surveys, whether it is geoency, or whether it's all or some or whatever, but that they've got to be able to provide this as part of their application. Is that is that fair? I'm not big on the intercept surveys because I or the promoters giving them the information as much as I am like you said using the codes or using the geo fencing because I feel like it's too however we but but we need something. Yes. I think if if you're doing a musical event you know um and we got to be able to
um have something that works. Now, I wish I could go to the county and give them this jazz festival and Cadillac be done with it. Like they Jacksonville has a free jazz festival and people from all over the country overseas come to it every year, but they hire a promoter to do it. So, they don't have to worry about that because it's free. So, but in these these paid events, um I I mean this is good. But I'mma get a chance to re um re research it. I am a law
clerk researcher. I'm retired now, but I did it for 20ome years for attorney be a richburg. So I really know the law really well. So but I'm I'mma look at this cuz I think this is good. Even if it would have been bad, I would still look at it. I wouldn't I wouldn't holler at you and nothing, you know. So I'm going to look at this. But we got to figure out some kind of way to really know. Even though I'm going go back to what I said from the beginning there, it is not a requirement under
this. It's a lot of stuff and I don't know if anybody if you have taken the time to actually read this a 13page statute. Normally statutes are not that long, but this is 13 pages. This covers everything. But what the legislature did not do, they did not give us any specifics. And we could say well this what they meant this or they meant that. Um the intent of the legislator is the intent of the legislator the way it is written [snorts] and we cannot circumvent
the law. You know what I'm saying? I mean this is really challengeable if somebody wanted to really challenge what we all come up with. Well we can put legally we can put more restrictions on it. We just can't put less. Well it doesn't say that in here and maybe I overlooked it. got other communities and counties across the state, they doing it wrong, too. But nobody never challenged it. What I did run across that discretion Yeah. What I what I did run across that I'm concerned about and I don't know if it's going to pass is they are trying to do away um with TDC,
which I think is crazy. Why would you do that? But that's that's up there. It is. You know what I'm saying? Oh, you know then you know I know what I'm talking about. So when I researched that, I don't I I I don't think it's gonna pass, but and then what where all us be then? You see what I'm saying? You know, but anyway, um look at this is very important to me. I I got a friend that's a legislator that I talked to about this this statute and I just didn't understand when they was
developing this thing why didn't they add certain rules that people could understand to it and they didn't you know so basically what he told me he said the way it is written is the way you read it and guess who he sounded like to me like my old boss Richberg said he didn't want Cadillac law. He wanted West law cuz I had these ideas in my head that um certain [snorts] things should be a
certain way. He said that is not how the law work. The interpretation of the law is simple. You know, you cannot circumvent the rules of the law and because if you do something about it can file a mandamus to challenge the the authority of it and but we not there with this. So that was something I thought I would run about you. You got my brain working now cuz you gave me this piece of paper. See? So it sounds like we all agree there needs to be a way to track hotel nights. And I think with what Maria said, the next thing we'll discuss is the matrix on grading,
but it also sounds like we're on the same page. Either they need a verified study done or a rate code or a combination of both. Is that the general feeling? I I'm I just I I got some things to say. Um, one I want to make sure we all I think I think we're all clear. We are here to determine how the tourist development council is going to give out tourism dollars. Right. Right. So, somebody that stays in a friend's house is not is not generating tourism dollars. I don't care how
many restaurants they go to. That's a different pot of money. That's not the money we're giving out. You don't get any credit for bringing your family in and staying at home to get tourism dollars. And that's why I threw it out there, right? Yeah. No. So, absolutely. That's not what the state statute allows. And the reality of the generality of the state statute, I've been on working on this for 25 years, right? Know what I'm talking allows the counties to your point to that there is like you get to it. No, let me let me finish. I let you talk. So the county is also has
a tourist development council statute of their own that is above and beyond this that it sets rules and if you're not reading that one you're just reading the state one you need to go back and read the county one because there are some things in there that are different. I did read and I so and so you need to make sure because as as Ashley said, we can set our own rules and if they're if the tourist development council of Escambia County wants to set as a bar room nights and as
a guidance, I'm going to offer up the Pensacola Sports Grant Program because when you apply for our grants, Tish knows it very well, probably better than I do, is There is a poset process and a procedure and you fill out our grant program and you have to tell us how many hotels rooms you are projecting. We ask you to tell us who your hotel partners are if you have them. But once and so and then there's a score sheet and a score sheet has things on it like room nights total direct
economic impact which we figure based on a program that we are subscribers to that is specific to our industry but Darren has the same company in one that's not specific. It is not the HA center. Um it is one that's for the tourism specifically for the tourism industry. [clears throat] um the time of year you get specific points if you are in shoulder season because we are in um we are in the business of we don't need to sell Pensacola Beach on Fourth of July or Labor Day or Labor Day but
there we have a season you get a location because there's times when he needs business that Fourth of July he may be starving and if your event is up at UWF where he is getting room nights. You get value there based on location, but you also get again at time of year also image enhancements to the county. And each one of those categories has and marketing has a score that you apply to
it. And tied to that score is a total score and a value of based on our budget how much you can maximum get at the So if UTSA baseball does an event up at um John R. Jones Park on Nine Mile Road in March and they tell us they're going to get 5,000 room nights. That's great. They don't get a penny from us until they turn that report in. Now they have signed uh basically their
application that understands that what they put in there, their budgets and all that is subject to audit not only from me but from the county, from Stefan. Um, and when they turn their reports in, they have to give me accountability for the room nights that they have, and they have to sign an affidavit that says these are true and right and I am subject to. And once they say if they gave 5,000 room nights and we might give them an award based on a sliding scale that says you get 5,000
room nights, you get $10,000. When they show us 5,000 roommates, they get $10,000. What if they only show 4,000? We have a sliding scale. Okay? And we tell them that they show up with $2500. And some of it we may we we we're pretty creative. We give you we may say we're going to give you $2,500 for marketing because you marketed the way to beach. We don't want to market Pensacola Sports. I got no use for somebody in Minnesota. But Pensacola Beach does, the Fish House does, and our
hotel partners do coming from Minnesota. So, you come show us how you market it on your website on whatever your marketing component, we might give you the $2,500 and give you the balance in your room nights. And if you don't, then we slide that. We we have a clawback. We have a lot of people that we give grants to that are overindulgent and they're very optimistic, but one the volunteer mother who was supposed to collect all the room nights, she didn't. It's not my problem. It's his
problem. Her problem. They don't get their money. Next year they'll have a different volunteer mom who was going to go chase those. But we put the onus on the grant tour. That's right. Right. Or grantee. Grantee. Okay. On the grantee. you tell me you're going to do something, we agree that we think this is a good opportunity, go for it. Here's your money when you get back to us and you when you show that report. Every bit of that is in this Pensacola sports grant. I love all of that. And I think that all three sports visit and we all have a our own individual as
it's tailored to our our things. We all have a packet and how we're going to score you and what's required and we all have a scorecard for each one of our separate unified budget and I don't know that you couldn't use our grant to based on what their interest is as they're coming to the TDC say we really want them to come to Pensacola Sports because the reality one of the nice things about mine is if somebody comes to me and asks for money he can't go to they can't go to him and so but if
they come and they got a phenomenal event and I can't afford it. I can pick up the phone and say, "Darren, I got a great event." In fact, I sent him one yesterday. Um that that together we will look at and look at putting a proposal together and see depending on what their interest is to say, you know what, this is it's sports related, but it's really a conference and maybe if we put a little money together to this, we can capture this for Pensacola. That's a little bit different. That's a bid, not a grant. But it could be the same thing. A grantee comes to me and he's got the greatest
event in the world. I can't afford it. American magic. They didn't come through anybody. They just round the corner. But did they come to me or come to him? He first call would have been Darren, what do we want to do this opportunity? This is pretty cool. How do we want to help this? And it it would have stayed streamlined. So, how do you make your grantees prove hotel rooms? Is it the They have a They've got a report they have to It's basically followed like the Florida Sports Foundation. Yeah.
There's all the guidelines on what they have to do to report it. They have to submit me a report. They have to again because we have a clerk of the court that's very interested in we you gave them a check. You gave them a a grant. If they buy something, they have to provide me checks, you know, they have to provide me bank statements. If they put something on a credit card, they got to prove to me they paid that credit card. Everything that Pam Childers requires of me,
I require of them. And they same thing. Mine are post I'm sorry, I was supposed to be talking. I I mine are postevent um awards and that's how that's how we do it. Um Ray one regarding the county's own um to I did read that ordinance. There is an ordinance for that. Um I do have it at home. I should have brought it. Um you know I I learned to cross all my tees and dot my eyes when it comes
to legal stuff. Um and that ordinance if it's is there if you go and read it, it actually um tracks the language um of Florida Statute 125. Oh, almost almost for the work. It's for work. I think you're required. There's they can't they didn't change anything from what the legislator did. It's still the same. So, I I read it and I read it. I said, "Well, this didn't make no sense. Why would they write that?" But then when I went back to the actual statute, it is required that the county
actually track the language of um the Florida statute. That was amazing. So, let's let's tackle two things here. Do I think we all agree that we want them to prove their hotel nights? Yes. What do we think about the clawback option? Because that was also one of the things I had listed. Obviously, I believe very strongly in the ability to if you're going to come to us and ask for money that you need to you need to prove that you did what you told us. And and I don't know if we want
to talk about it now, but I think there's more to the value because as Cadillac says, there's nothing in the statue that talks about room nights. It talks about tourism, period. Tourism, period. If you use that value of tourism and sponsorships and what Darren does is completely different than what I do. Um, and so there's got to be it cannot just be tied to. There has to be a point of marketing and value and exposure of our community that is a value. And how that's a
that's a little bit harder. Now, that's one thing that the the clerk is pounding hard on us is these and I'm going to use the word sponsorship because she hates that word. Um, and then she she that's become a nightmare is you know, well, you what how do you can you prove sponsorship is truly bringing us room night? Well, if you look up the dictionary, the word of sponsorship, there really is no way to do that for the most part. I mean, the two words don't make sense. And but but sponsorship is a real thing in the marketing world. He is a marketing agency. I'm a marketing
agency. She's a marketing agency. And marketing is part of everything he does. And so, and and I agree with you wholeheartedly, and that's why I was creating this score sheet of however it comes. It's not just about hotel rooms. It's about more than that because marketing and sponsorship we talk about and I talk about through visit it's just like uh travel writers you know what I mean is that the value in in the PR that we're able to generate for Escambia County through what we
do spending on the money on that is incredible and that's the same kind of value that right one thing I need to say is that um I get I get a lot of people because I've been doing this for a Uh, and I get a lot of people that ask me, well, dog Cadillac, how do you get the money? Why I can't do this or why I can't do that? I have to explain to them. And I think we need to start doing this, explaining to people that these dollars is really not to throw your own party, okay? that
these dollars are meant to promote tourism in the outer market. They bring people in from the outer market according to what that states, you know, nationally and internationally what the statute reads, you know, because if I mean you might can get somebody that come from Foley, is that considered the out of market? Is Mobile considered the out of market if they stay here? if they stay here, you know. So, the way they got that thing written, um I I advertise in Atlanta cuz I know
that's the out of market. I know that's what four, five hours away for my event. I advertise in New Orleans, you know. Um um I ad basically I'm advertising all over the country for Pensacola. So if you go on the website, you'll see we have a beautiful brand new website that's up and we and it's everywhere. It's it's to the point I don't run radio in Pensacola. I mean I just I just don't I might do a little bit in Mobile, but advertising dollars you try to look how far the
reach is on radio. How far is the television reach and television is very expensive nowadays. So So coming back to the hotels and the clawback, right? Where where are we at on potential clawbacks? Ray says yes. Darren, you know, I'm fine with that. I saw in a number of the applications where, you know, if uh the room nights falls below a certain mark, then it falls to the lower funding mechanism. I mean, I'm looking at rays. You're you got funding based on points, right? And so,
I mean, it's not exactly the same thing, but your maximum award is 10,000. No, 10,000 plus. Oh. Oh. Oh. [laughter] plus. Okay. Okay. All right. Um so yeah, I'm in very few of ours see that. And again, we award points against that, but the points are scaled and and our our task at Pensacola Sports is to spend the money to get maximum ROI for the taxes dollars and to spend it wisely. So,
our committee is made up of some very smart people who also are good tourism people that that know, hey, and we've even gone back to applicants and said, we try to help them. We want to give them this money because we want them to be successful. And so we've said, "Hey, why don't we give them instead of giving them five instead of giving them $5,000, why don't we give them $6,000 and give them $1,000 to boost their marketing plan or something like that because we really believe that this event has has merit and we give our and then the the committee supports that or says no,
whatever." And they negotiate through that. Those are not set in stone, but we end up usually in those as those are our guidelines. [snorts] I mean, room nights are important obviously. Um, we for we're spending the TDT money, we want to try to replenish that fund. However, there in addition to room nights, there are other things that are that are important. Now, if an event has a a national presence or provides significant TV coverage, I mean, that's that's a factor that
should be considered if it's giving our community significant visibility. Yeah. So, it's t I think room nights is one of the most important factors, the number of people, it brings in, number of visitors versus residents that attend. But uh yeah, there's does make it challenging because there's multiple. Well, I'll say to you, it's one of the challenges that that we in the art world face all the time is that that's what we call subjectiveness and um and so when it comes to sponsorships and to national recognition or how much is that going to garner that we can't
necessarily put that is it's very subjective but very important. Yeah. As far as on the clbacks, Pensacola sports budget in general and then especially with the grant budget is a lot smaller than some of the grants that TDC has given. So, I don't know how that affects events that are coming. I know we've had some events that we gave the full amount. They asked for 5,000. We approved the 5,000 and then they just didn't do the event. So, we didn't give them anything. Um,
we've had some where they were going to get 5,000 and they didn't get the room night, so they got 3,000. That's not going to kill that event. It's probably not going to kill that event planner. But with TDC, the some of the the grants that come to us are 200,000, $300,000 ask, I don't know how the clawback works. Um, and as far as funding, I don't know if they get funded up front or they get funded on the back end. So, I think we would have to think all that through. Um, and uh, I'd hate to tell somebody you got 300,000 and then they come for a check and like, well, you didn't
get enough room nights, you only get 100,000. That would be a pretty big hit. Is this working? Try again. Okay. Yes. Okay. Working. Okay. All right. So, um, it depends on the language in the MAA. Um, so like for the unified budget, they they get a a larger a large advance, if you will. um compared to uh the most of the other uh TDT partners that we have. So uh typically it
could be like one 12th would be the advance. Not everybody takes it. Um some people do, some people do not. Um depending it's it's how the agency wants to do it or if there's a specific advance uh built into their MAA based on whatever the need is. But there are not a lot of those. So u but that is ultimately how the advanced pieces work you know as far as the allocation. Well, in the in the education part of if you were to put keep the clause in there,
the clawback clause in there as part of the education that y'all provide of to if there is a whatever a formula that says, hey, you know, we're going to give you this for the room nights, but you know what? We're going to take back what you don't based on this formula because that sounds like that's what you do. But you give them that knowledge upfront so that they know that if they're doing reimbursables that they already know that they didn't get that. So there should
be no expectation of where's my $300,000, man. That's and that's all in their um award letter. It's very clearly spelled out in their award letter of what their expectations are. And to me, that's like buying a house, right? Like my house is mortgaged. The bank expects me to pay every month. If I don't, they're gonna take my house. And And aren't we actually all of us that that handle county money and that our job as part of tourism is to be a good banker? I mean, I've used that. You know, we we're responsible for loaning people money for economic um um goodwill
or benefit back to the county through tourism. And so for us to be a good employee or good bank officer, we should make good loans. Mr. Banks, I'm thinking um before you so for like M Mr. Banks and and Jazzfest, they're easy because they're a ticketed event. So I I don't see them having issues. I think it's the the events that don't have as many tickets maybe like foiling week um
that you know you only have maybe 50 participants that are actually in foiling week and then they're saying that you know 10,000 are going to show up to watch the 50. So that's when the problem I see is being created when it's ticketed events those are really simple to you know for Mr. Banks or anybody that's having ticketed event to prove their tickets. Um, so it's the ones that are not, but I think the clawback like Maria said that it's going to keep people honest when they fill out that application that if you say you're going to have a thousand room nights, you
better have not don't come with 100 room nights because you're not going to be very happy. Um, or fill out the application appropriately. Don't pat it, right? It's going to keep people honest, I think. Right. So, so youth soccer is not ticketed generally, but their teams come in and they pay a fee to get in, but it's where they can where those organizers, if they're smart and if they're good, they know how to track the moms and dads, not just the number of players because, you know, they have a check in whether you have to sign in for the tournament or the event that
you're coming to for participation. Then they direct them towards hotels and they already have conversations and relationships with the hotel partners who go, "Yeah, we're going to report." Because they understand that if you do a good job of reporting back for that organizer and he's a good one, he's going to come back to our county and they're going to come back and stay with you again. It's a good cycle if it's done properly and monitored correctly. But we can't we can't um we can't discount those noned events where there is money that is given
to them to produce non tangible results like CBS is going to be airing XYZ or ESPN is going to be airing X Y and Z in national markets. We we we have to keep that into perspective because that is something I was those are those are measurable. Yeah. And what I'm saying is that let's not forget we have things like that and we give them credit for that. Yeah. But we expect them to report that
back. But say if they don't get those particular number of rooms Ray that you require them all their money. So basically, even though they might say they done spent $10,000 of their own money, because really in all actuality, can't nobody say what I even ain't going to do. I mean, you just can't. You can't say, you know what, I'mma sell x amount of tickets. You just don't know that, you know, and that go that creates a problem if the person even these people doing these small events.
I mean, they have good intentions of trying to make the event work, but then if it doesn't work, even if they didn't put their hardearned money out there to try to to try to make it work and say you they didn't say they, well, we're going to get a thousand people and next thing you know, they don't get but 200. You you see what I'm saying? You got to have some type of leeway for these people who doing these smaller events so they don't be like, you know, I done put all my money out there. I ain't doing this no more. I couldn't get my money back. TDC didn't give back to me
because I told them I was going to have a thousand room nights and I couldn't. You can't make people come to your event. I mean, you could promote it. Like I said, I've been doing this a long time and I done seen a whole lot of events fail in Escambia County. I done seen them fall because they assume what people is people going to come. And that I think that's very important to really take a close look at when when you start saying, "Well, you know what? You didn't get your thousand people, so I ain't going to give you this other $2,000." But they tried. I mean, if they tried, that's a
slippery slope. I get it. But the reality is is, is it the government's job to do that? And I would say that good governance would allow so you get them you get x amount of dollars for your event and it's a complete wash out. Do you think that the county seal owes you every penny that they originally committed to? I think that could be a negotiated thing down the road. But you know what? If you if you say you're going to do an event and you absolutely do not make but we gave you $25,000, don't come back next year and come back and I can go there. to have some common sense
involved in it. But just to I I don't think the government is our fall back in this world where we only have a limited amount of tourist development tax dollars and the the mission of those dollars is to grow tourism. And if you haven't you propose an event and you overpropose it and you don't produce what you're required to do just because I don't think you should get your money. So you think if they propose that event and they have a storm and they can't have the event? Okay. I
I think I think I think maybe why not if say if this their first event most time when a person doing a one-time event, they should at least have a chance to try to make this event work. So say they didn't get you thousand rooms and that's the first time. So they come back next year trying to get some money. I think they should be able to get it. Now my committee will my committee will take and I think now you come back twice and it's still doing the same thing. I get it. You didn't shot your shot, you know, but you just can't X them out because they said they was going to have
a thousand room nights and then they ain't have but 200. They tried it. Is it worth giving them another shot to try again? And basically that's from looking at the overall event itself. What did they put in that event? Did they advertise that event? Did they attack the out of market? Well, if you got limited amount of dollars, it's hard to broadcast somewhere out of out out of Scammy County to try to get people come here because the advertising dollars cost so much. So, so you got to I think you got to really start looking at this thing as a as a really a big picture.
If you only giving somebody $10,000 to have an event and you say I want a thousand room nights, he gonna have to advertise that advertising in Pensacola ain't going to get it because he need to advertise in that other market. That's going to cost him. Do we get money for that? So, I mean I mean we can go around and around about it. I seen it too many times. People want to try and then it fails and they really well I can't go back to TDC no more or I can't go to visit Pensacola. I can't go to ACE because I might not be a nonprofit. So, well, I might as well try to go to the county and see what the county will do for me. How do we fix this problem that we having
that because we want events in Pensacola. We want people to come to Pensacola. You know, that that's my main purpose to get people. I mean, that's how I get off knowing all these people coming here for the event, but everybody can't do that. They can't they just they don't have it and they ain't got no help to help them help them do it. They should be funding that. I have a business loan for Well, I'm saying I understand that. They come and take things. They don't just say, "Well, try better next month." Yeah. But I Well, I I understand that. I gave them a business plan and I promised
I would do something and if I don't, they take it. It rains out there. They've got event insurance. So, if you're if you're having an event, you're taking Well, then you got to realize the Well, well, you got to realize the amount of dollars you going to give them. What was your question? Do you need to realize the amount of dollars you going to give them if they get rain insurance? How much you think rain insurance costs for an inch of rain? or how much you think it costs for two inches of rain or do you know how much it costs for three inches of rain? I do. So all that in in this time of the se but it can rain anytime. It can rain anytime. See we we agree I don't think we should
be funding bad business plans. I I I get I get I I get that. But how do you make that bad business a good business? Do you help them or do you if but the statute don't tell you how many times they can ask for it. But it's part of I think what we're trying to come up with is a a a process for people to apply for for dollars and what the the rules and regulations are to apply for that, what all needs to be included and then a scoring sheet to to to feel how those how those measured. And and I
think that between all of our organizations, we've probably found that it shakes out. It shakes out. The the people who don't need to be funded are not funded and those that should be funded are are because they have filled out the application. They've answered all the questions. They've been scored and they're only going to score appropriately if they have met those thresholds. So, it's going to get rid of all those folks that can't. Would you Is that what you find? Yeah,
pretty much. [clears throat] So, let's let's close out this section based on hotel nights and the clawback. So, we'll need a motion for that and then let's move into the matrix part. Just so that I understand, can you define clawback for me? How administratively is that supposed to work? So, we would need based on whatever matrix we come up with. So, if we have I'm just spitballing five. Yeah. If we have five categories in our matrix, 20% of
the money they get would be based on their hotel rooms. If you promise a thousand hotel rooms, you only come in with 500, then you would only get half of that 20%. Just for example. Okay. So that that information will happen postevent. So are we saying that we're going to go back to those applicants and try to retrieve county funds? I think we need to decide if we're giving it to them ahead of time or after the fact. We we do it. We we do it. We do it because we don't
fund anything up front. So, we just reduce the amount of their award based on their report. Yeah, I was going to say we're reim reimbursement based. So, and the counties for the most part other than the advance, the rest of it's reimbursement based, right? So, correct. So, typically um and and you guys know this as well. So, as these events are happening, that information is not available until later. So typically during that reimbursement process,
you're not really going to we don't get that information until post event. Once if it was Navy Days, we're not going to get it till after Navy Days is done. We're not going to get it until after uh Fufu Fest is over. So, and we've spent the money. So, that's just the point that I would like to for the committee's conversation before decisions are made. I just I just need to better understand exactly what we're saying we're doing. So, is how is it working now?
So again, so uh ACE gets quite a bit. So So it depends on Marty and all the agencies that we're talking about. So again, the majority are going to be like 1112th and it's a reimbursement as far as advance, but others do get uh certainly not not for the unified budget advance, but but some do get more than 112th. But again, my point is, [snorts] you know, the the metrics postevent are not available till postevent. Most of the things we do, even Pensacon, so it's going
to happen after Pensacon is done. You've paid the bills, you've paid your vendors, you've you've been turning things in all along, but your your success metrics, if you will, come later, right? So if so, yes, you thought you were going to get the 10, 15, however many thousands of visitors. You know, we don't have that information until after the the public funds are spent. So that's the point that I'm making for the committee. Um these aren't the smaller types. It's not the five or 10,000. These are the 200, the 300, $150,000, the 500,000 allocations that the BCC makes. So
um so again, when you say clawback, I I'm not quite sure what that means. But additionally, if again if success metrics are not good when we have those after or postevent reports and metrics uh delivered, you know, certainly yes, that should be information for the TDC to make for future funding allocations. Like, yeah, maybe that didn't work. Maybe we give you a lot less, you know, for the next go round or maybe you don't receive anything at all. So, um, that's the point that I'm just simply trying to relate to to to the committee. So,
based on the metrics matrix that she's talking about, say we we decide on what that looks like, can the county give them the money as it's spent and then hold back whatever percentage we decide the rooms are worth until they turn in the proof, then you're not fully funding the event, right? So, one option that I've seen in a number of these is um the final 10 or 15% is released after they get the final report. We don't do callbacks at Visit Pensac School at this time.
We just don't. But if something fails, you know, the chances of it being funded the next year are diminished. But the idea of holding back that final payment until you get the final report, so you get a final report and get a final report in a timely manner does give you the opportunity to hold 10 15%. In your professional opinion, how long should it take to get that report? Just depends on how quickly the event organizer provides some of that data. Uh 45 days, no more
than 60. Okay. and and I appreciate that, Darren. That makes sense. Yeah, that's a good idea. So, let's split this then um because we do have two different topics and then I want to move into the um coming up with a matrix. Seems like we're all in agreeance for hotel nights having to be approved either with a report based on tangible data, not based on just willy-nilly numbers given out or rate codes or links. Do we want to say rate codes or links or how do they use both?
I I don't know that we have to tell them what they have to sign. They have to sign a document that says whatever I called it an affidavit that says what I'm giving you is the truth and that we are authorized to audit. I can call Tish and say, "Five facts Speedway said they had 12 guys in your hotel." And I can pick up the phone and say, "Did you?" And he can go, "No, I never saw the first one." Okay, thank you very much. Or, "No, we had 47 of those people." You know, it doesn't matter.
But Ray, why you can't just get it from the hotels themselves? No, we do. Because it's not it's the applicant who we gave the money to. It's his job to do it. This just gives No, no, that's what I'm saying. Why can't the applicant just get You make them. What? What I said is I had the hotel printed out. So, no. What I said is we reserve the right they have to sign an affidavit that says this hotel report is the truth. Oh, okay. And then I reserve the right to audit them or have the county audit them. Right. So, I don't go chase it. No, I just am ability if I have doubts and I go I
don't believe we had we had attended that went to the tournament and there were only half as many as what they said they were going to have. I reserve the right to go check what you gave turn and staff has done that Laura's done they've done that but it's basically saying yeah well we've been said you said 3,000 but the hotels we call yeah so I'm saying I'm saying if high point turn in a report that I did x amount of hotels I turn that report in because I'm I'm getting it from them right I don't know you know so do I turn that in do a person turn that in saying well this corporation
said that you did these many hotel these many room nights in these You're getting a check from me. It's your responsibility to make sure they told you the truth. Well, how they falsified something and you [snorts] got money for it and you turned it into the I still think I still think we saying we saying different things. I do listen to how I'm saying this so we'll be on the same page. I'm saying this is a corporation. I book all my rooms. I'm sorry. I book all my rooms through
this particular corporation. Right? At the end of the event, I contact this corporation. I said, "Can you send me something on corporate letterhead to show how many room nights I have for my event at all your hotels combined?" And they send me that. I turn that in to the county. Check it. You're not responsible for checking that they How going How am I going to know how many rooms? Don't you know how many people came to your event? Yeah, but how many people you know stayed at that
hotel? Not my job. Yeah, but I'm just saying. I mean, we confusing it. We getting issues having to answer the county attorney. No, I'll answer the county attorney. I got Trust me, I ain't got a problem with that. So, I'm just saying why create a problem that don't need to be no problem. I'm saying if I get a if I get that's how you do yours. I'm saying we need to be unified on how we do it. Darren got a different way. Asa got a different way. You got a different way. It need to be one single way how you do this to be able to count for the hotel. We agreed on rate code
and links. I I would accept your corporate letter head. Well, that's all you had to say, right? What I'm saying is I reserve the right. Right. Okay. If you don't if you don't think it's true. That's what I'm saying. Okay. I'm protecting the county. So if you if you don't think it's true, then I'm going I'mma sue High Point Corporation cuz maybe they gave me the wrong number or something or you or somebody going to sue. So So how about this? How how about we require them to use rate codes or a link or they have to tell us at the beginning before we give them money how they're going
to track it. Because for example, Pensacola Mardigra, I I book hotel rooms. I live here. I feel like that's still a tourism event because I'm putting money back in the tourism pot. I don't think most people who live here are going to log on to Pensacola Martigra's website and say, "Oh, okay. You know, it's this hotel. I'm going to stay there. I'm just going to pick my favorite hotel downtown and book a room there." So, I feel like maybe we should say you need to do we pre-approved these methods. If it's something outside of this, you need to tell us ahead of time and then that
can be the board's discretion. And that's where a majority opinion or downs in St. Germaine where they do the intercept studies can augment that because we know there's a lot of bleed out, right? We we have our our room blocks set up at these hotels. We're trying to push people to those hotels, but they're going to book at this brand because they're going to use their priority points and they're going to stay for free or they, you know, our hotels are here, but they want to stay at the beach or by the mall or by the museum or or downtown. not exactly where we want them to
be placed. Or we have hotel room blocks, but they want to do vacation rentals, so they rent a condo or they get with another family and they're renting a house. So there there is bleed out when it comes to uh booking room nights. We And I feel like you probably have that with more so with different events. Yeah. So Okay. A lot of them get Airbnbs. It's every event. Yeah. Yeah. I have that. they get Airbnbs or they go on the beach or they rent those those condos. And so what do you feel like our motion should be for this? I think we can just make a motion that they have to prove
room nights. Okay. And then uh we can put whether with rate codes or rate link, [clears throat] but I think we kind of leave it up to them to prove the rooms. That can be part of the workshop as far as talking about you know, right? Um I I know with Visit Pensacola and Pensacola Sports their grant committee process they we ask for a print out if you have hotels [snorts] that you are dealing with show proof that you are dealing with those hotels and it's usually just like a print out of an email from the sales email from the sales say we put a block of 30 room right thank you what I do that's
submitted with the application so sometimes they put I'm dealing with five hotels and I only send proof of one um they've had a couple times where I had you know one of my hotels listed is I call my manager and she's like nobody's called here. Um so you know it does happen where they will list random hotels and but they've never you've never heard from them right for for the committee do you want to define what a hotel night is anything that contributes to the TDT pot right so so remember
we had different applicants that defined it as something different so this is an opportunity for this committee to to define what council and what this committee defines as a room night. Can you tell us what you recommend from an accounting standpoint? So, it's not it's not really an accounting thing, but um so remember they had multiple people staying in one hotel room. So, we count it as one hotel room, whether it's one person or 15 people, but you can only count it as one. I know I'm being excessive, but but it's over there. [laughter] Maybe it depends on which
hotel you're staying at, but um but again, so So we count it one one hotel room is is is one room, right? It doesn't matter how many people are there. We only count one room, right? So So if you rent two rooms, that counts as two. Doesn't matter how many people. So doesn't go by the occupants in the room. How many rooms they book is what you're talking about, right, Stephan? Yes, sir. Okay. Thank you. And I believe that we because of the far foundation and I believe visit part allow for a condo for the number of bedrooms. If it's a twobedroom condo, you get
two nights. Is that not right? I believe that's right. I know. So, not everybody does that. Some give you only one credit. So, I can almost see that because that means it's more expensive. So, you're paying a higher tax. I just think it's important for for the committee to to define that. And I know it's an it's an it's an ongoing discussion of well, if it's a three-bedroom condo, do I get three room nights for that or one room night? I think we accept three. Three bedrooms, three nights. Yes. Per. But it's only one room, right? We honor. No,
it's one house. One house. Okay. One house or a condo on the beach. You can count that. Yeah. If you go to Portoino, you go get a two-bedroom or a threebedroom condo for every bedroom that you have. I think we allow them. But we honestly don't have a whole lot of that, but I know it's been a lot of discussion. Okay. That is an interesting concept. So, what is that states? that's accepted by the state. I think it's been long a lot of conversations. Well, the state doesn't reimburse anything on room nights because they don't care about our local bed tax. It's just conversations among organizations like visit Florida of how should we allow people
to measure it? How do we recommend that? So, I do have here's a grant reimbursement guidelines checklist. Here's everything that when they go to return in their report all the things that they have to do to provide to us to show whether it's room nights like must have detailed invoices not just an order or quote it must be an invoice copy to clear checks and I'm sure in here is something that has to do with room nights but I had seen that one yet but I'm sure it's here from a hotel year standpoint how do you feel like we should define a roommate? I mean, of course,
I'm going to say per night, uh, regardless if I have a suite with three rooms in it because they're paying for one night. Um, and you catch us on a slow season and you may get it for a really low rate and you catch us on a high season, it may be five times that doesn't mean that it should be five room nights. Just because it's five times the, you know, and that's for any hotel. Um, same thing with condos. I think just because it has three bedrooms or four bedrooms, I don't think it's the owner of that condo is not going to say that's four room nights. It's you're collecting
rent for one night. Um, so I would I would hope and and I would like for us to count it as room one room night and versus if there's five people in one room, that's still one room night. All five of you stayed for one night. You only paid for one night. It's not you didn't pay for five nights. So, do you want to amend your motion to require them to prove hotel nights and each hotel night is just each hotel night is one room night, not by occupant? Are we are we are we expanding that to to more than just hotels? Yeah, that's what I was going to say. If we're going to do it, let's
do VBOs or others and just make it one room night for the Yeah. I wouldn't say hotel room night, just any room night, right? And where Right. It could be. Right. So that'll be included the condos and all that kind of Right. Right. One and I'm okay with that. I'm really that is what Do we have a second? Huh? Do we have a second? I'll second that. All in favor? Passes unanimously. Good deal. Let's start with Are you guys good? 30 more minutes is until five o'clock. We did,
but I don't want to overwork everybody. Yeah, let's What we got? How many? Okay. I do. Um, will one of the three of you guys lead us on where you think what you think the matrix should be made out of since it's something you guys deal with on a regular basis? Obviously, hotel rooms. So, that's number one. Oh, we on number three. So, we look at uh time of the year the event. Okay, that's where we have we have a lot of events uh in Escambia County. So when we talk
about bringing on new events and be funding them, we should try to be placing these during times of the year when it can not step on all over another event, but actually, you know, uh stand alone and we can actually maybe see the impact of that event. So, you know, right now in January, it's a it's a great time for bringing in events. Uh we love events in January, but you know, to have what did we have? We had uh foiling week on top of the Marty Gro and the Sunb
Belt basketball championships. That's a lot going on over the same time. I mean, we kind of have that going on right now at the end of October, beginning of November because we've got Fufu Festival. We have the Blue Angels Homecoming. We got the Frank Brown Singer Songwriter Festival. Uh great GF Coast uh art festival. I mean there was there was a lot going on in that time period which is great to a point but now it feels like maybe we could push one of those to another weekend. So room night season. What else? Um also just on the timing we have one of the things of um also
too not just the time of the year that it is but also is it during the middle of the week or is it a weekend? Because if you do something during the middle of the week, you're driving a lot more revenue for hotel years or for stays or whatever when they have their empty space. So that's always for us that's a factor too as to whether so season weekend weekdays. Yeah. And the only thing that future concerns me about that especially for anything that's the downtown world because
if you're a convention center it's the other way around. Um, we're getting to the point now where so many things are overlapping at the same time on the weekends as far as gallery night and opera are on the same night. It's like you can't get and they're on the same weekend and if things were spread out or they were at different times then you can double you know what I mean? That's just
like from a restaurant point of view is that taking that one night. Gallery night and opera are both on that first Friday night. This Friday night as a matter of fact and so restaurants, we don't get to double dip on that Friday night. You know what I mean? Because it's so that's just that makes sense. I don't I don't have that problem. I just don't I mean I'm at the end of September um and basically I I probably couldn't do a jazz festival on a Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. No, I
think I think that's where everybody's understood what the type of the event that it is. For sure. I think every I think everybody respects that. Some some events are just built to be weekend or as yours holiday and stuff. Well, those sporting events are well like your runs and your dashes and things like that are weekend a lot. But summertime baseball and summertime baseball and those things they do weekdays because kids they use them as vacation. Yeah, I remember when I was doing Labor Day. One other thing to add would be location in the county. I think is a valuable because you know Purto wants their love, North Scami County wants their love, the beach wants,
you know, they we all all of them have have needs and so I think there's value to where you are now ties your hands that's a little harder for your but you're we're talking about the TDT we're not controlling her program not controlling mine about what the TDT wants to score how they want to score for escaping county yes I think another thing on vis participants colas is just community partners. How many partners uh the event is collaborating with outside of you know just just getting TDC
dollars and other other sponsorships. I think it's any kind support from the community and demonstrates cooperation cooperative partnerships with other entities to create a longer stand. So that's community partners sponsorships right? Okay. One of the things we have is you have the infrastructure and staff to deliver program and plan. So you say you're going to do whatever will you have the staff do you have able to you have staff to be able to give us what we need
to reconcile everything. Great point. That's one of the things we have to say that you're a viable entity. What what do you call that specifically? How did you guys work that in instructure and staff to deliver programming and back? Another thing we have is national marketing and messaging appeal. That's a that's a factor in our scoring system because again it's one of those
intangible things. Yeah. are too the the marketing and you know having a marketing media plan um is one of one of our criteria that you have to have length of uh the event too. I mean ideally you know multiple day events are going to generate overnight stays versus one day or an afternoon event. So they do not score as well but we get those kind of applications
but ideally we'd prefer to have multiple day events. Okay. Uh we have measurements for validating return on investment or program success. So this goes back to um surveying companies geoencing um what are you going to what are you going to give us to validate our return on? So, could we group that with room nights and ability to show?
We also have in there, what's your target? What is your target audience? And we ask that only because we're trying to reach multiple different audiences because we are, you know, especially countywide, like you're saying about uh geographic locations. We want to make sure that we have things in the entire county. So that mean you would have to have different type of events then what are you talking about? Basically it's just a way of scoring your particular Okay. Your your event is all ages I'm
assuming. Yes. It's basically middle-aged people you know elders and stuff. It can appeal to it can it can I mean we get you can get young people coming. I tell you on your report I'm gonna read that when I get home. you gonna get an email from me [laughter] because that hits that hits a large swath of our our demographics. It's not for this this niche market, but there might be something to the niche market when you when you do it. It has this huge national appeal, you know, is that that's why it's a matrix is that we fill out, you know, we may score really high on this
and then on this and then, you know, so could we group location and target market together or do those need to be separate? I think location need to be by itself, but you need a targeted market and which would probably be I think you're out of market. Would you say that would be correct, Darren? Yeah. You see what I'm saying? You you got to target the target market is the outer market, you know? I mean, if you just want to say, well, you know, we'll put it on channel 3. They reach all the way down to where Fort Walton or something. I think you're talking more like
the demographics, right? Like old people, young people. Well, well, that's fine. But the targeted market for us, we then we get down to marketing on on media. How we going to these things need to be marketed? It need to be marketed in the out of market, you know, because that's basically what the statute is really requiring you to do. If you read between the lines is marketing and plan of activity and then under that message, right? Right. Local, is it a regional? Is it
a state? Is it a national? You know, those those things I think Darren can testify. When I was with Business Pensacola, one of my major marketing tools is that I market in a national magazine and that goes out over the whole country and it's only about smooth jazz, nothing else. And you'd be surprised. I mean, it's amazing. It's an amazing been around for years and years and years and I
still use that, you know. So, it targets. That's all I want to talk about is jazz art. I mean, jazz people who gonna spend jazz money, you know. So, we've listed seven different categories. If we keep it with these seven, and I'll read them off, we could essentially assign room nights 40% of the value and then 10% to each other. Um, and that's up for I'm just throwing that out there as a place to start, but as of now, we have room nights. Um, and part of that's based on the ability to show those room nights, season, weekend or weekday, the location,
community partners, sponsorship, infrastructure, and ability to deliver, the length of the event, and the target market and PR plan. One more thing that we have on here just to throw out there is we have resources to manage and comply with financial expectations. So, under this, we have done similar which track history. Can we add that to infrastructure and ability to deliver? Okay, [snorts] read that to me again. Describe how you were successful or so that we can pass.
So success of past success of past event. Okay. Right. Or have you done a similar event? Maybe you haven't done jazz this jazz thing, but maybe you've done X Y and Z and that's giving you so now we want to take a chance on your big jazz vest because you've done like four smaller ones, right? I see what you're saying. That makes sense. That helps us. Yeah. Yeah. That way we're just helping them move to the next stage. So in additional room nights in this particular sports related criteria talk about the number of participants and what percentage are local
versus outside of town and that depends on the the market. So we talk about like 50 miles plus is considered a visitor. If it's within that 50 miles that we classify as a local visitor. So that's coming of our residents that are station a lot of the crews are staying out at the beach and generating nights. So just run through a few high points and supporting I think what we have
but add one little wrinkle. We actually give 40% to the room nights. Okay. But we give um 30% to and uh the economic projected economic impact and again we can and the TDT could do the TDC could do this when they received the application when they received the application. I gonna speak for my fellow unified budget people, but I know if you send it to me, I we've had agencies call us up and
say, "I'm going to apply to the TDC. Will you give me an economic impact report on my event as we're going to submit?" And we have run that event for them at no charge because the countyy's paying for us to own that, right? So we're doing our job as a bank officer to say this is what the value of the economic impact and it is very specific as I know Darren's is because again I know it's the same group it's mine just built differently because mine's specific to sevenyear-old little girls that
are going to play softball. It knows those numbers for Escambia County. And so I think we need to have an economic impact and I think we should be your resource. I mean honestly and I again I throw Laura under the bus because she's she's got big strong muscles. But she can run you a report if she's got the numbers in 15 minutes. She knows she can enter all the data and she might call and say hey wait I need to know one more piece of data. She can give you whether it's worth a million bucks or two million bucks or three million bucks. How much gas tax you're going to get. how many
bed taxes you're projected you're going to get and that is a big part of our scoring. So, one of these counties actually had that available on their website and you could plug it in right there and it would give you the econom. So, can you do that for us? Can we lean on you? You lean on me too if it's a sports event. Okay. Yeah, I have you. So, what do you think economic impact should be? Oh, I do. But mine is built for sports. So, so you have to have one for different kind different events, wouldn't you? Right. Different variations of it for I'm sure they have an arts one. They
have one for, you know, whatever. But hey, it may be something. It's But it's like $2,000 a year. $3,000 a year. Mine is. And the county's paying for it. So maybe the county gives everybody an additional appropriation of 3,000 to your main agencies to say, "We want you to be our economic impact calculator." and you just know you paid for it. You just send it to us and say, "Ray, Darren, Maria, we need you to run an economic impact." And then you hand it back to your TDT to your
TDC and say, "Use this as your calculation and assign it points to it." We don't we don't have that and we don't have a board. We don't have a staff. We don't have a staff. We don't have Well, Darren, is that something that I bet you we've talked about possibly adding That's uh I would want to see how that yours may be more expensive than mine, too. I think it's at least five grand. But I want to see how that ties in with Yeah, they may be able to do it. But I do like the idea that having it on the website. Yeah, I forget which one it was,
but one of the counties that I listed had actually had it on their website and it was really Well, I know we go through either Miami or she goes through certain training and things, you know, every year to make sure. And you can manipulate you can manipulate the heck out of that thing. Oh, you can. Oh, yeah. You p plug in whatever number you want. That's why we like to That's why we run it. So, do we want economic impact on our matrix? I don't know why I would think you would need to have an economic you do or you don't. I think we do. But see, somebody sent I have people apply
for me like sent from all over the country and they say my my event an economic impact of $4 and half million dollars last year in Baltimore, Maryland. Well, good for you. That doesn't mean one thing to me. Do they say who did it? How many? They may or may not. You tell me what you're going to bring to Pensacola. You tell me what you're going to bring to Pensacola and I can tell you what it's worth to Pensacola. So how much how many points or what percentage of the matrix does economic development economic impact is 30 for us. So you have 40 for room nights and 30 for economic
development and then 10 for timing, 10 for image enhancement and then but each of those have um different bullet points underneath them that are and then 10 for marketing plan and intangibles. I'm gonna give that to y'all too so you can quick question. I don't know this or have based on the event budget. So, so in in in the rules of here's here's here's this are you going to what do y'all
do now? Do you ask for whatever you want or is it Yeah. Yeah. [laughter] You know, what what amount is being asked that's the percentage of the total that's what I was going to say. How much skin is in there? How much are you bringing to the game or is this your entire budget? There should be skin in the game. Well, according to um Miss Breer, I think she realized that the states this statute had actually that was the local statute that she had found where you go is
um that you had to pay 50 you had to have 50%. She brought that at a couple of meetings and then I think somebody corrected her and said that's actually not act accurate in the statute that it had been ch updated or changed something. So that is not a statutory thing. That was just some that was a directive that that the board had given some years ago and back at that time we had one application and it applied to everything. So at this point we've got a very clear TDT application. We've got a very clear economic development application and we've got a very clear general
fund um and solid waste fund if you will or waste services fund uh application. So um the 50% requirement is not a TDT thing but what I can tell you is each TDT applicant does get revenue from other sources other than Escambia County. So but it's not a we don't have a required percentage. Correct. Correct. So it may not it may it may not be 50 cent but 50 cent 50%. Um but the majority
I would say actually do have substantial other resources. This helps do it. Then there are others that without this funding they don't have the event. So it could be you know our our our funds may be 60 or 80% of the event. Maybe they can only generate 20%. But again it may be an amazing event. It's a proven event. For instance, I'd say every everybody that we currently give funds to um seem to do a a decent job with with their metrics. Um I think uh part of the the the reason
for this committee meeting is to try to iron out some things to make it more clear everybody's all on the same page. Um and I know there have been questions again on postmetrics. Was this really how many room nights were generated? is this how many people actually attended the event? Um I think some of those things have been a little bit questionable. I'll just say it that way. Um so I think you know as as the committee works through that really ironing those things out make the process better. So that let me clarify that we do a pre-event economic impact report
to for our scoring for our grant committee and then before they get any money we do a po we get their postevent report and we rerun the the true economic impact. We compare what did you tell us you were going to do with what did you actually do according to our report and then then we off often have down St. St. Germaine run one and we compare our economic impact report with theirs to see well what did they learn? What did we learn? And then we compare notes. I love that. I do want to be
respectful of everyone's time. We've got about 15 minutes before um some of us have to exit. Are we going to meet again? I think we should meet again. Is that Can we have the county's application? I mean, I know we probably are all familiar with the latest TDC. That'd be a good place to start. So, can I get a motion that we're going to move forward on a matrix and then that'll be the first thing that we discuss at the next meeting and then we'll do the budget right after that. I'll make a motion. You make a motion. Yes, sir. Thank you. Second. All in favor? I When do we want to meet again?
Well, I think you need to sooner we get this done better. But I think this is so important that doing it right is going to be so good today. I think we did great. Yeah. Are mornings or afternoons better for everyone? Mornings. I will. I think you ought to do like you did last time. Send out some dates and let people respond to the dates. That's available. Give me a little time. I can just make anything. Somebody is really easy for sure. Better for him. I think that I like the afternoon, but because I got a you know, but Well, um what about the 29th?
do the morning of the 29th like 9:00 am January. Yeah. Next Thursday. So we Oh, I'm in I'm in if I get I ain't got my calendar. I'm not iced in. I'll still be there. Okay. I'll send out dates then. Just send out some different dates later. Hey commissioner, just uh one thing to just remember we have to advertise as well from the dates. I was just talking about the dates she was looking to pick. Just remember we have to advertise as well. What is our timeline for that? Like how far ahead do you need to know?
A week and a half. So the Wednesday prior is what uh I need to have the information in in order to get it published. Noted. Okay. Um All right. Last thing. Any other business or closing remarks? Thank you. I think it was a good meeting. Agreed. Meeting adjourned. Then did you say a week and a half? Yes, sir. The the Wednesday of the week prior is when I need to have the information in in order to get it published for the following week. That's the latest I can do it. Yeah. the 29th. Yeah. Thank you guys. I appreciate all 29th is next Thursday. Good talking. Wonderful. Good talking. In order to get it into the uh the
PNG. That's the cut off. Okay. I was trying to make sure. And just so everyone knows, we also email that out weekly on the county website. You can sign up for county emails at myascambia.com. In the morning. Yes. Erica, come talk about the Bay Center. I don't have anything. of county commissioners meeting. They got the Hey, as long as it's not all tourism.