Today is the date is >> December the 12th. The time is 9:02 a.m. >> Mayor, do you have a point? >> Yes, ma'am. We do.
>> Sarah, thank you. Um so, um as you know, uh we are working through um developing a a shared vision um for downtown We uh gone through the master plan
process uh and as part of developing that shared vision uh we've asked Dr. Levy to meet with commissioners and with staff to uh help us build consensus, find commonalities, and help us develop
that shared vision. And so at this point, I'd like to turn it over to Dr. Lee. >> Thank you, Tom. Um Mayor, I have been in literally hundreds of public meetings, city meetings, and county meetings. I have never seen a bottle of iced tea
used as a gout. So, thank you. Thank you for that. That goes That's one going to be one of my great stories I'm going to tell when it's all said and done. >> A great idea. >> You have to adapt. >> Um, I appreciate being here. Thank you
so much. It's an honor. Um, it's I have to call this Tom's Convenience Store. landing school before it is going. It's uh it's impressive. Um what we want to do today, here's a bit of an agenda. Um really I'm going to talk a little bit
about goal setting, but really this is about priorities. Tom talked about the vision, but I think you have the vision. I think it's articulated. I mean, we're going to go through um some of the uh discussions that we had uh oneonone. We did some one-on-one interviews with with
each of you, but I think it's really any further than that. I think it's about priority setting and identifying sort of an immediate near-term road map of what steps to take to execute on the plan. I'm going to talk about our process,
what we did, the findings, the sort of your mission, vision, and goals. And then really, we're going to get to the meat of this, which is really working together collaboratively to identify those specific uh near-term priorities and and what is most important to the
five of you. Uh with all due respect to the to the room, we have the public here. That's great. But really today is about the five of you engaging with each other, coming away with a very specific set of priorities and talking about next
steps on how to execute. That's that's what my my ambition for you today is is that um some ground rules. Again, we're here to facilitate discussion amongst the five of you. Um this is your day.
There's no opinion. Everything's encouraged. Uh Do not, you know, let me just completely walk through this presentation. Stop. Have questions, comments. Let's let's get some uh ongoing dialogue all throughout the uh the proceed the proceedings. Um every
idea and opinion are encouraged and and absolutely ask questions and if we have need for some technical information, your key staff are here. You always draw them. Tom and Land are here as well. So, always ask questions. So, I want to just a little bit. This is
going to be a little a couple slides here and I think we're getting you a hard copy of the presentation. So, it's coming so you can take some notes. But, um I really want to talk about how important it is for you to do this even even though you have a master plan and
it articulates goals and it has a whole list of things to do. It's really about getting their arms around everything and boiling it down to and simplifying it, making it very succinct uh in terms of setting priorities and of course the old saying plan to fail. But um we're going
to go through what we talked about the SWAT analysis, strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, and threats that face your downtown. Um it's about alignment. If we can get the five of you aligned,
we can get your staff aligned with you, this organization will hon. And that's kind of what I like like to try and achieve uh here. And again, this is about creating creating your future. So very quickly, um we want to optimize
organization performance and that really starts with you. If you set clear direction, your organization will perform. If there's mixed messages, the organization is going to have some dysfunction. So, it really is about the five of you setting a clear uh clear
direction. We want to make sure that when we list those priorities there there are no unlimited resources in the world. We have limited we have limited resources. We're not talking about funding today. We will get into that. You'll get into that in future steps.
It's about establishing what those priorities are. your organization morale will improve if you're elected as a commission. Um this is very clear response to what we can achieve today. We want to be able to
attract additional resources. You are sound in your priorities and message. When you go to outside organizations, the state legislator, other other partners, your message, if it's aligned, you will
you will be better positioned to attract more outsource outside resources. Um the public's confidence in you will grow when you're aligned. Uh and then we want to be anticipatory. some of the challenges you're going to
face and then this is [snorts] all about leadership and ability to change. So for the benefit of the the entire room, I want to talk a little bit about the process we went through to get here today. Um I conducted interviews with city
manager uh department and select department heads at the end of October. I did one on one interviews with each of you um in the period between the end of October and the middle of uh November. You see the number seven on the department heads because I'm going to be
showing you some research findings. So it's important to know how many people were involved in the interview and of course five of you'll see in the findings I did some additional analysis and I you know looked at all sorts of resources your
social media website. I actually watched some of your past commission meetings and helped me understand kind of where you were as a group. I watched your last uh commission meeting as well, some of the financial information, some statistical stuff and other other
documents. Uh in fact, I just read um your targeting industry uh document was actually very impressive work that had been done there. So that was part of my background research and Understanding you as an organization, understanding the city as an organization,
understanding the community. It's really important as we uh we embark on this today's process. So I asked six research questions. I have them here verbatim and they're lengthy. The first one was about the
vision in the master class and I asked your opinion about that. I'm going to be presenting these findings and I think I told each of you in those is that I wasn't so concerned about whether you've wanted or not wanted to change the
vision. This wasn't about rewriting the vision of the master plan. That's not what today is about. You have that vision, but I wanted to hear from you your opinion about that vision. Did you have any interest in modifications or any refinements?
Um, the second question I ask is about the goals in the master plan. There's five goals um which really encompass the kitchen sink encompasses everything. I mean it's very well written. They're very
widespread. But if we're here to talk about priorities, you can't do everything. And so I asked you which one of those goals were most important. I kind of put you on the spot and said prioritizing and you did and you gave me great feedback. I'm going to
show you those results. And remember, we have a staff group that got asked the same questions and we have the commission asked the same question because one of the benefits of this process is it will tell us
where your organization is in terms of alignment between you and your staff. Some people might not think that's important. I think as a former city manager um and involved in public policy, it's critically important that the commission the staff. You're setting
the direction. If your staff's not aligned with you, that's a problem. Um, so that's that's important and we we explored that in this analysis. The next four questions, we did a SWAT analysis. I asked you about your opinion about
downtown, the strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, and threats. You'll see those findings. Um, then I then here came the tough questions. So I broke down the questions into three groups. Uh
I wanted to know your top priorities for infrastructure and capital projects. I wanted to know your top economic development priorities. And I wanted to know what programs, services, events were your top three priorities. And so
you all gave me lots of information. But then the tough question came, okay, out of all everything you told me, pick the top three. And you know, some went right to it, some you know, you were thinking there, I got a lot of things I'm interested in. There was a bit of a bit
of a challenge here, but I thought it was an excellent exercise to kind of get us to a point where we can start identifying what's most important. And then uh finally, the last question I asked is what would you like to see discussed at the workshop? You know, what do you want the outcome to be? what
what uh what would be a great a great day for for you all. And so what I'd like to do is I need to just tell you a little bit about the questions. So um in terms of the responses because there different aspects to each
question, I didn't limit anybody's response. Number one, you could give me a whole bunch of information. Um And so you're going to see while there were five of you, there might be seven or eight or nine things that show up in. So
that's um downtown plan. Most people the commission between the commission and the staff were able to do that. Couple, not the commission, a couple people involved just weren't comfortable doing
that or didn't provide an answer. you're going to see some no answer uh in the uh in the response. No limit on the number of responses. It was really my my um desire to get you to
be thinking about all the possible answers. And so you'll see the numbers don't necessarily match up with the number. There aren't five answers there. There could be 20 answers there. Could be 15 answers to each question because I didn't want to limit it. I just want to hear everybody's uh feelings about that
on the priorities. Some people couldn't come up with three for each area. That's okay. Not a problem, but that might you might see an anomaly in some of the data. And then um number five, uh priorities are all three categories.
Again, some couldn't come up with three. Some felt so strongly like these are the two things that I really care about. I don't care about number anything beyond it. That's okay. No problem. Just as you see the data, you'll understand why there's some differences in the finally success
success for the workshop. No limit on the number of responses. Okay, we good? All right, let's go into the findings. The first question I want to report back to is actually the last question, which is what do we want to expect from I
think we want to get this [clears throat] out right away. And I found this fascinating and I'm not sure I've ever seen this in my career between the staff and the commission. Complete 100% alignment
on desiring consensus and collaboration from the commission and clear program project priorities. Okay. What does that tell me? Everybody's worried about it's on your mind. Everybody believes that there
isn't consensus. So if you're looking at it the glass half full, it's saying got a little bit of an issue here. With the glass half of of I'm sorry, half empty half full. Everybody wants to wants the same thing.
So I think that's that's a great statement about what's what the expectation is on you today. Everybody wants you guys to figure this out. Everybody wants you to talk about these priorities. Everybody wants you to collaborate. Everybody
wants you to compromise and build consensus. So, we come out of here today with some clear and direct uh a clear direction. Um there's a couple of other answers, but I I really focus on the top two on either side. And as I said, um,
this was very telling and, uh, I think very indicative of what the entire room wants. Thoughts? Any everybody good with that? Yeah. Anybody disagree? Okay. It's okay to disagree. Um, okay. So, the
master plan vision. Um, again, I when I when I spoke to you, I said we're not here to rewrite the master plan vision. Um what we're here is I wanted to get your opinion. Was there anything in the vision that was of concern? Um what would you like to do or not to do? Just
it was a way of sort of kicking off our discussion about downtown. Again, this is the vision that's in your adopted master plan. Um you can see the numbers both support as is. There was some modest changes on the on the staff side
and on the committee side. only one person really indicated a desire to rewrite it. Here were some of the notable comments from the staff. There wasn't really an economic development there wasn't any economic development language in the vision. Um and somebody
the the idea of green downtown well that can be defined a number of different ways and somebody pointed that out. I didn't disagree but that's just an observation. on the city um commission side, the term familyfriendly, which is a big concept
in your in your vision. Um I guess that can be defined in a lot of different ways. It's really up to the the the reader. Somebody made a comment about that. And then somebody mentioned perhaps it should be more succinct. Again, we're not here to rewrite it.
It's just I'm I'm reporting back to what I heard. All right, the most important master plan goals. Again, the commission was uh spread out a bit, but the true waterfront downtown
and leverage tourism were the two that were most important. There five goals in the in downtown BS. I can go back to refresh. Uh if you don't um wish you had the printed document, you'd have the written uh Bang
But there are five of them. One's a true downtown, one is family friendly is the third one. Multigenerational agricultural history and safe pedestrian environment is those are five right there. Um and people
gravitate on the commission to the waterfront and leverage tourism. the staff was focused more on the waterfront and one of you on the commission said they're all important but just get
something done get something started get something done and I thought that was interesting as well anybody want to change their vote or their thoughts on that okay so water waterfront and tourism sort of resonated
for me out of these discussions those were really most important. That doesn't mean that the others aren't important. And I want to make that clear. You're not when you when you told me your priorities. You made it clear in our conversations.
You weren't abandoning the other items. You still believed in family friendly. You still believe in multigener generational agricultural history. But when when I asked to be you know what would you do first or what would you
focus on most most importantly those are the answers you give okay the SWAT analysis um the strengths of downtown I'm going to focus on the commission you can see um the department heads there um and I I
don't see a misalignment here at all but again That's really where you all focus available land historical character. You can see how they sort of spread out. But again, the lakefront all of you all of
you said that is the biggest strength of downtown. It's not surprising. I'm just I'm just affirming our conversations even the staff at four out of seven. Um I didn't include there were there were others that were single uh voting scores that I
had but you can see um the importance of city land being a strength and your downtown what are the weaknesses of downtown uh
staff is focused on the unity of the commission they're really they're really worried that they can't clear direction. And I don't think I'm telling you anything that you probably don't already know. And today is about me being
candid. Um, I'm I'm here today. I go home. So, I'm going to tell you what I heard, right? I I am not going to pull any punches. [snorts] I'm going to give you what exactly what I heard. And I think your staff is very concerned. And
I don't think this is a surprise to any of you. very concerned that there isn't clear consensus coming from the commission. Um, and of course, uh, the staff is concerned about the the role of the downtown merchants and whether or
not they're really playing an active supportive or active role in the development downtown. Uh, you can see the [snorts] other stores here. On the commission side, there's concern about the ability to execute
on projects and your approach to your priorities to downtown. You can see it short of expertise execution standards. It's a kind of a group statement. There are a bunch of answers there, but it's kind of statement about a concern about
being able to execute on delivering um projects and same concern about the downtown merchants association, but you can see the importance of the Um, any thoughts
people want to Okay, this is this is me reporting out. Okay, the opportunities um the staff um prioritize the the track.
So, I want to about trails just for a quick second. So the way I characterized the trail idea in in the discussions was yes, you are in moving forward collaboratively with a couple of other cities about the big regional trail and
I I heard a report from the county the other day that there was some great meetings in DC and things are moving forward and you're you're on the right track there. But I think the trail concept is bigger than just that singular regional trail. We talked about
how are your neighborhoods getting to downtown? I mean, you've got sidewalks and you got street view, but what if your trail system was radial and went out from your downtown into your neighborhoods and where people could easily and
comfortably get to your downtown using a trail by bike by walking with kids. Um, you know, making your downtown more of another neighborhood that your neighborhoods visit and and utilize. And
so we talked about the trail idea being more than just the big regional trail, but being a network of trails. And so, um, I kind of provided that refinement to get people to think a little bit bigger than just the one trail because the big regional trail, if you're doing
if you're succeeding, it's going to take a number of years to get funding, get the right away from the railroad, all those things. But that shouldn't stop you. developing your radial trail network and connecting your neighborhoods into downtown and that's another way to strengthen uh strengthen
your downtown. So the staff was big on that idea. The Fair Park lakefront um was opportunity city properties. These are these are not surprises. These are obvious probably to everybody but you can see how they rank in terms of
importance. I think the sharks home park showed up and hotel there showed up as well. On the commission side, it's a little more diverse. You guys have a bunch of bunch of ideas about opportunities for downtown. Certainly, you're concerned about the consensus.
Three of you told me the biggest opportunity is to get the five of you together and uh make, you know, get on the same page and same set of priorities and goals. Um, ideas about act tech
global business uh some economic development uh things that you can do the expanded lakefront and this was the first time I had heard about the relocation of the swing and uh I had been to your downtown four or five times now in the last couple months every time
I do I go to the waterfall because it's it's where you're telling me the future is and it's what differentiates you frombody everybody Outdoor doesn't have the waterfront you have. Outdoors downtown is it might sit on a lake. It's
not a waterfront downtown, right? Um your downtown is probably most closely related to Claremont. You might be five or seven years behind Claremont. Claremont's done an amazing job embracing their waterfront. I would say
your peer in terms of Lake County city in terms of where your downtown sits in terms of the water, it's probably Claremont. It's not Mount Dora in terms of the water. It's it's but >> [snorts] >> um the idea of relocating. So the story
I was going to tell you is I go downtown and I like to watch. I just like to see what happens with and I'm on the waterfront. One day I happened to be there probably around 3:00 and I could see um students, teenagers, um the
parents dropping them off going to the um going to the swimming pool and there's clearly swimming practice. I think I asked somebody and I think it's the high school swim team. Well, so it's a really important facility, right? The pool is important.
Supports the high school program. I'm sure it gets used in the a lot in the summer. Splash pad. It's a great pick, but it is probably sitting on some of the most valuable waterfront property you have. And so I, you know, I said,
man, this is if you could figure out how to relocate. This is just in my brain. And then a couple of you said, relocate the pool. Um, and I had not heard that before. And I thought, well, you guys are on the right track. Again, it's cost money. It's a big idea.
>> [snorts] >> But um it was it was definitely on your mind in terms of opportunity to create more um economic opportunity because while people coming to a swimming pool on the waterfront is great, I don't know that those people
are spending any money in your restaurants or your retail or you know having the economic impact that another use for that land have. So, um I thought that was very I thought that was very
interesting got into the uh relationship that you have with uh postsecary you know something or lake tech you know you guys are thinking about the collaboration with those higher educational institutions I think
you're spot on I think some of the greatest uh I'll use as an example for me um if you know Lake Na and I've had a career in developing Lake Kona Medical City is there because of a lot of reasons, but it is enhanced
by its relationship with UCF and the the high value highwage jobs are really the the initial stuff the initial seeds that were planted were planted by the university being there. The institution educational institution and then the
private sector investment came as a result of that. So, the fact that you're thinking about your relationships um with those higher educational institutions is really smart. I think your staff and I had a conversation about, you know, thinking about those
relationships and how important it is to citywide economic development. I think you're I think you're spot on and I think it's a clear a clear opportunity for you. Um first time I and I probably pressed this question about use of debt. I find um you know your fiscal policies
as they should be be conservative. Um you know nobody wants to get out over their skis financially. Um but I did hear some willingness to be um responsible piece of debt. Uh you can't
do big things on a cash basis. If you want to do big things, you got to you got to accumulates capital and so a smart and and responsible use of that I think is an important tool for you. There's the regional trail idea again
with the local trails and again uh tourism showed up um important uh in that remember what you how you prioritize your goals. Two of you said waterfront was the most important, two of you said tourism. So these things are starting to continue to appear and show
consistent thinking on your part in terms of uh opportunities and then the threats. Um there you are both of you said the biggest threat and the reason why there's seven and not
five on the right hand side is because I added the fear of making bold decisions as part of the the issue. Some of you told me that there's a there's a there's a reluctance
to, you know, think big and think bold. And sometimes this is not um this business that you're in is not risk- free. You know that because you have to report to the people who voted for you. I think your terms are every two years
or four years. >> Four. >> Two. >> Four. Okay. So, you got you have to report back. You're you're you're graded every four years. There's not there's not a risk free environment here. I get that. But some of the great cities and
we're going to talk about that later. Some of the the great things that cities have done is because you do take some risk and you think a little bit out of the box and you think boldly and I today if you're going to hear anything from me, you're going to hear me encourage you to do that. Um and again, I'm not
sitting in here. I don't have to, you know, you run for reelection. Um, but I I I think you can do some amazing things if you think about um, you know,
the legacy that you [clears throat] can create and sometimes that takes some risk. So I that's why that score is so high. You can see some of the other issues you raised some concern about reputation developers um during the reblock
competition from other cities. Yeah. But as I as I told you, um you've got your downtown states like no other. Outdoors got its thing. Um and I've done the work with outdoor. They got they got
a great thing going, but it's their thing. You got to focus on your thing. >> And your thing. >> Yeah. Your thing. and you you have [clears throat] told we're going to get into you have told me what you think your thing is in terms of priorities. We're going to we're going to mass all
this together and come and we're going to talk about that. But um um yes, market demand and economic conditions. Uh I'm going to we're going to talk about the three block redevelopment. I heard Mr. Goman the other night tell you that
it's a longer play. You know that it's not going to happen overnight. I agree with that. But we're going to We're going to talk about um that in the context of your priorities. The the um staff, you know, focus on the
commission, but also rightfully so, they're they're the technicians. You know, the state legislature hasn't necessarily been so friendly to local governments. They're they're uh preempting a lot of what you can do. Um you always have to be careful of that.
That's always a threat. I hear that from every city council that I do work with and county commission that I do work. Um, financ lack of a parking plan. You know, parking came up a couple of times, but
it didn't come up in the context of this entire exercise as much as I thought maybe it would have. And uh um I think I've had some conversations with with some of you that um you know, should you be thinking about downtown parking? Yes.
But is that the most important thing you should be doing right now? No. Because your parking plan is really there to support your future projects and your future activity. You decide on what you're going to do and how you're going to execute on those projects. Then you understand, well, how do we make parking
work? So parking like if your priorities are number one, parking's 1A or 1B, right? You got to do it, but you don't really can't do it until you really understand what's going to be happening in the downtown.
Any thoughts on the threats analysis? Okay. Um, now we're going to get into the tougher questions which were the priorities. So I've colored these because they're going to come back and when we
consolidate them all see the different categories color of the cattle projects and it became very obvious all seven department heads and all five commissioners said waterfront waterfront
waterfront and I'm here to tell you that I think that is absolutely your top priority and I know Um where's the uh okay three blocks I'm going to talk
about three blocks it's probably under economic development but you see regional local trail so staff and the commission perfectly aligned and I will tell you that you have seen examples in central Florida of trail towns you know
what it did for Winter Garden you can see what it's doing in Claremont um Claremont's done a phenomenal They took their trail and moved it right in smack in the middle of downtown. Your railroad line is sitting right there. That will bring you hundreds and
hundreds of people every day. Um simply by just having that 12t wide asphalt. You're doing it. You're executing on that. My my encouragement to you is think bigger than just that one trail. Think about the radio
uh streetscape expansion. Somebody talked about the band shelf enhancement um relocating the city pool. You can see these things uh talking about the dock extension and the ability to kind of do more things with a dock that can accommodate sea planes and other things.
Absolutely. But it's still waterfront. It's still lakefront. That's a project under sort of a lakefront. So when we talk about waterfront common or waterfront park or waterfront, there's going to be dozens of projects that are going to fall under. We just want to
today we want to say is the you know is the waterfront your top priority if it is let's talk about what are the key key components of it and you can see the staff similar um similar
to the bottom you can see community center relocation I know that's a bit of a of a issue that's is still out there um I think I mentioned to somebody I had similar experience in my career. Um, if
you know downtown Orlando, I go back in the 1970s, Orange County was decided where to put the convention center and downtown Orlando is one of the locations. Now, we know where it went. We know it's on drive. Everybody's been there. I know you live in Lake County. Everybody's been to that convention
center. Everybody's seen what's happened. [clears throat and cough] But could you imagine if that were located where the old arena was, not the new one today, where the old arena was, that's where the expo center is. That's what they were considering as a potential location. They made the
decision to move it out. But the expo center became this building that city owned and was used for community events, lunchons, um banquetss, um churches, schools, everybody was using it and the
fees were very low. And um we uh in the course of thinking about the evolution of that building came up with this idea that you know we could attract University of Central Florida to downtown that town. And uh so it's one
of the most um toughest decisions and the hardest thing I ever to do. I had to get up in front of our city council and say we want to give that building to the to the University of Central Florida for the film school. And I got hammered. But look at what it's resulted in today. Got
10,000 students downtown in a completely redeveloped area and they got a downtown campus. I'm not saying they're of the same scale, but the issue of you got a building that community uses and depends on it. We had to find alternative places
for those events to occur at comparable prices. That would be the challenge. So if you do choose to look at that community center as a as an asset to potentially open up activity on the on the waterfront. You got to re you we got to replace the community's use of that
building. And there's lots of different ways to do that. We work with churches. We work with hotels. We work with other places where there were meeting spaces. You can do it. Okay? Don't be afraid of that. Um think think bold, think long
term about that. I I digress, but this is you're not alone in contemplating the ultimate use of that building. It's been And I think you can figure out ways to make it happen for for your ultimate objectives. Um, we look at the pool, you
can see these things. City Avenue building of course came from the staff. Um, didn't come necessarily from the commission. That made me smile. That's what I would have expected. But, uh, again, I don't know the pressures on your office space and things like that, but clearly a couple people had it had.
So, those are the capital projects. Any any thoughts? You okay with my little analogies and stories to give you some background? Because those aren't important. >> Yeah. I mean, these are these are tough
tough questions that you have to face. And again, I'm asking you to do it without any fear and be bold. It's easy for me to say that, right? It is easy. Now, in green, we got economic development. um priorities. So the staff
is clearly focused on the old hospital site. It's probably been a big, you know, press to do something there. He hired a consultant to kind of market that site and so that's that's important business recruitment incentives relationship with the educational
institutions, quality housing. I think when we talk I think all of us talked about housing and when I when I used to work quality [clears throat] housing um you know the in today's world affordable housing is really important and um my
suggestion to you is when I talk about quality housing we're talking about market rate housing I know Mr. talked about it with the amenities and the question that came up at your meeting on Monday I think was you know the question about what what what is really quality housing and you describe
some of the amenities um you can do both so in today and you know I wear I wear a number of hats I still work for major developer that's out of stock I'm a developer and we are in housing in big way multif family housing there is not a
project there's not a multif family developer of any caliber today that doesn't understand that that 10% of their units have to be afforded and you include them in your your high quality housing. It is just where the market is.
It's just what local government expects. So you can do both. When I talk about quality housing, I'm not ignoring affordable housing. I'm saying you can have affordable housing components of that. It's it's done every day. Um it is not not something that you could ask the
market to do and it would be a shock uh to the to the um residential development. So I just want to give you that insight. Um clearly on the commission side the hotel um consistent with what a couple of you said was your top priority which was tourism. So the
hotel is clearly important. Now the hotel and tourism I sort of treat separately because it could be on the waterfront. It might not be on the waterfront. It could be in the quarter downtown. So it's not necessarily a waterfront project, but it could be and
certainly is related. And then finding a private sector partner for the three blocks. Uh I heard the discussion the other night and uh I heard the public comment about it. Uh there's dozens of different ways you can go about redeveloping that. What I found
encouraging in our discussions were that sever a number of you said, "Yes, it's important, but it's not the most important thing." And what that told me, it made me think of that land isn't going anywhere. It's
been vacant for a long, long period of time. Um, you're not alone. Orlando property which is of comparable size in downtown Orlando has been vac's happened and if it hasn't happened in downtown Orlando I'm not surprised it
hasn't happened here it's a large building but here's my message to you everything you do in your downtown everything you do in your water every improvement you make to make this an amazing unique place will do nothing
increase that and at some point somebody's going to see the value of being on that property in proximity to all the great things that you're doing. I don't know when that is. I don't know if that's in a
year. I don't know if that's in three years or five years. But several of you said not so worried about the timing of that. It's important to us and I couldn't agree with you more. I would encourage you that the things that you
you know the priorities we're going to talk about will do nothing but make that land more valuable and more increase its interest to the right you don't have to rush out and do that plan >> okay so you're saying that doesn't have
to be done first to go around you're saying am I hearing you say you can grow around it and then let it implode from it >> it's going to happen when it's going to happen there's nothing I mean Mr. He's he's doing his thing, right? He's out there pushing it and selling it and, you
know, telling the story. It's going to happen when it's going to happen. There's nothing you can do to affect that timing unless you say you're going to give the land away. Okay? That could that could accelerate the timing and that could very well be one of one of the opportunities to to do something. My
point is that if you do these set your priorities and your waterfront is your top priority, let's just hypothetically say that we'll get to it. And you're doing all these things. You're relocating the pool. The trail is coming. You're doing amazing improvements along the waterfront.
That propertyy's within a quarter of a lake. I mean, it's it's essentially, you know, it's a couple of blocks, right? >> One block. And we and we own the lands. We actually control the time. >> Okay.
>> Well, you do or you don't. You you control it because you can decide when do you want to enter into an agreement with somebody or not, >> right? >> But the you don't control the market, right? >> The market. And so I just, you know, one of the things that I've seen here I want
to encourage you is and you a couple of you told me this not so hung up on the timing of that. You're interested in quality. You want to get the right You want to get the right answer, but the right answer gets better as you do these other
things. So you create this place that's unique to use and you work on that waterfront. You do all your things that you do. You just keep doing that. Build momentum. It will come. Don't have to You don't have
to get hung up on that stuff. Boy, we got to get that done. That's the first thing we got to get done. I'm not sure I'm getting what you're saying in the sense that are you saying are you saying don't worry about the middle build around are you saying when
you build around you implode the inside? >> I mean my personal thought was you build from the core out we bring in the anchor in the middle and hope that the that we support it around. You're saying are you saying stop on the middle? No, no, I'm
saying market it. Do what you're doing, >> okay? Because those those opportunities will come to you when they come to you. There's nothing you really can do to affect the market perception of that except build your public realm. Build your
projects. Make your waterfront great. Make it build your trails that connect your neighborhoods. Make make downtown the the central neighborhood of your city where everybody wants to be. Then it might be that the first thing that comes to you might be a multif family
project that only doesn't want all three blocks. Maybe he wants half of one block or or something. Don't I'm saying don't get hung up on the timing of phasing and what in because that's that's an asset that's going to do nothing but increase in value every dollar you spend on other
projects in the downtown >> or it could be a project outside of those three blocks. >> Absolutely. You're hopefully you're going to get the things that you're you will be doing and building in downtown will attract all sorts of investment. small businesses, um, restaurants, uh,
you know, you're a little short on maybe physical space for them, so you gota you got to work work on that. But you're absolutely right. Just, you know, do the right kinds of things. Set your priorities, put your money where your priorities are, execute on those. The
market will see that. The market will hear that, will see that, and it'll make Mr. 's job a lot easier to find some development partners whether they be big or small. Um that that's my message to you. That's just based on my experience
is that um as much as elected bodies want to want to make sure that things happen in a certain time for the private sector, you know, the market's going to tell you when that's going to happen. Okay. So, any other thoughts on economic
development markets? And then in gray the programs, events and services um both groups thought more privately managed events. So I don't have a a lot of context. Uh I know you do a bunch of
big public uh events downtown. Uh but it was clear the message that more private events would be um would would help. And uh of course that comes with that uh discussion about um you know the relationship with the downtown business
organizations improving that and whether that's a new organization or improving that kind of getting the city and the downtown businesses handing blood I think uh was one of the messages I heard you can see some of the ideas that grew out of this uh lots of different ideas
but they all probably um you know the more greater the place you build downtown more of these events are going to come to you just uh organically because people want to be downtown. They're going to want to do things downtown. So,
you got a great core of your downtown. The bones of your downtown are awesome. That little historic um streets that you've got down there is fabulous. I think what this message tells us is try and find more private operators that
can do private events downtown to make make downtown more attractive. Okay, here's uh here's where we landed everything. I asked you to give me your top priorities. You can see the gold,
the green, and the gray. So, um the staff is focused on the waterfront. So is mission number two. So waterfront is is hike and trails. So trails and waterfront um and hotel. So if you
remember the goals that that you said were most important, it was waterfront and tourism. I mean uh you can almost say that the regional trails a little bit like a tourism. That's great because it's going to bring hundreds of people
into your town and cheap. They're going to go on bikes with money in their pocket. If you look at Claremont, you look at Winter Garden, you look at what Trails have done economically to that that town. So, to me, those three right there on your side of the ledger kind of
made perfect sense from everything I heard on everything from importance of from your vision to your goals, SWAT analysis. Um, that made the most sense to me. And except for um the private
sector you know staff was pretty much right there hotel didn't come up but staff's a little focus on [snorts] the private sector on the uh on the three blocks made sense to me but as we discussed I
mean if you want I gave you my opinion um but I'm just one one opinion um that three block development will happen but the Best way you can influence it is trails, waterfront, and hotel.
Those three things, your three lots just get nothing but more value and the market will see that. Can you can you just give us your thought on a timeline? Because I hear a lot from the commissioners,
we got to get something done. I'm tired. I'm tired. I'm tired. Can you put in perspective for us is it a one year, three year, five year, 10 year I mean it's 23 years since the hospital moved out. >> Okay. >> For the three blocks.
>> Yeah. But I also see and I hear you talking a lot about three blocks. I I see and I'm speaking just from for me. I I want you to see our downtown redevelopment is way more than three blocks. >> I think this whole This whole exercise
is the absolute conclusion is it's not the three blocks. >> Okay. All right. >> The three blocks is a what I'm suggesting to you is the three blocks is a it's there. It's going to happen. That's not shouldn't be your focus. Um and I think >> shouldn't be.
>> What you what you saying here is you believe that you said your priorities are trails, waterfront, and hotel. And I after talking to everybody in the room, you know, the staff and you, I think I think
that is spot on. I think everything I heard from your SWAT analysis to your, you know, your priorities on goals, this m this aligns with what you told me about your goals and it was I do these exercises sometimes the when we get to
this place, it's like, oh, how did we get here? That's not what I that's not what happened here. happened here was an absolute logical progression of everything you told me wound up right here um on those on those top three
projects. That's doesn't mean there aren't other things to do, but those those were very clear because I think and and you're right, but I think that a lot of our issues center around
doing absolutely what you said that we probably should focusing on this as opposed to focusing on everything else. So, I I think you're spot on. >> Well, when you think about what you control, >> got a budget, you you build capital
projects, you have no control over the real estate market, right? You have no control over demand. you can influence maybe the timing of something. If you wanted to underwrite the cost of a
development through incentives and and uh you know land, you just wanted to give the land away. But I'm I'm suggesting you don't have to do that. I'm suggesting doing what you told me you think you should be doing is building all this stuff that's going to
make Eustace a singular oneofa-kind waterfront city. And I'm telling you when you do that and if that you need to start we're going to talk about at project execution and timing and things like that but if you do that you stay singularly focused on that. Don't get
you know when you set your priorities today and you're comfortable with them and it's laser focused. Go forward and stay on those and the private sector will recognize that. They will see the investments you're making. They're seeing that you're creating a one of a
kind incredible place and they're going to want to be there now to what scale to what uses. We don't know the market. The market will tell us >> but multiple things begin to occur at one time. >> Absolutely. You can chew the outside.
>> Yeah. Very long. >> But but don't make the development of the three blocks I I I wish you could sleep at night not worrying about that. It will come and you're not unique. 15 years in downtown
Atlanta. I mean, it's the largest city in the in the region and nothing has happened. There's still buildings. I mean, there's a cost of there's a cost of cleaning that site up. So, you I mean, you're ahead of the game. You got no buildings here. You got
infrastructure doing everything. It's sitting. It will will happen and I will tell and my message to you is you improve the timing of it and the quality of it by what you invest in the round. I think I think you're right. I
think we we and this is just me. I think we we kind of rush to get things done and I think in a couple instances we've seen how that didn't work because we rush to get things done. So,
So I think focus >> I mean it's I think it's human nature to see that and go that's a wonderful opportunity to why aren't people knocking down our door you know with proposals. Well it's only going to work if the real estate market says it's going to work
and and uh I know Mr. Goo is closer to this than than I am but I and I heard his presentation and he's telling you that he thinks it's early and you want to accelerate the development of redevelopment of those blocks. Do what
you control, not just build a great place around. Build a place that small businesses want to be at. Build a place where and and make it easy for people who are neighborhoods that are in their neighborhoods to get to downtown. I mean, I hesitate to do this, but when I drive
around, I see this. I see the pedestrian network. Um, you know, it's it can be it can be improved, but if you drive trails into your neighborhood. There's this idea of, you know,
here's your life, here's your downtown, and you've got these neighborhoods sitting all all around you here. Each one of these neighborhoods have center, right? I mean not like what you think like a neighborhood center but like could be a park, it could be a church, it could be a small retail area, it
could be a place where people the neighbor go build your trails to there >> and bring them bring them into downtown and you you own the streets, you own the rightway. It's not like you got to like this big regional trail and you got to go to the federal government and figure
out how to get a railroad right away. I mean there's >> no and the master plan actually detailed that too the connectivity between downtown >> really important. >> Yeah, it is. >> That's why we wanted to make it not just about the big regional trail but about
this radial network of of trails and that that's something you could start on right away. And again, you might not think you might not think of it as a downtown project, but if you think of downtown as one of your great neighborhoods, um, and you want to
connect those neighborhoods, if this happens to be the neighborhood where you want people to come down and celebrate and spend some money, uh, bring, you know, do all the things that you want to do. That's another way to show the real estate market how important downtown is
along with the waterfront, maybe relocating the um the community center issue. I mean be thinking about all of these things that are going to make you one of a kind from downtown. >> I have a question. How long do um you
foresee that takes with the trails? Um when we're talking about buying the railroad, how how long do you think that would take? So re regional trails are transportation projects and transportation projects
take a long time because of the you know you've got to do feasibility and you've got to do PD you've got to do rightway acquisition you've got to do >> so that's now I think the radial trends you're talking about are lower hanging
fruit because they are for the most part roads our right way now We I mean we need to work with public works and engineering to figure out do we I mean people lose their minds when you talk about things like road diets and we're
going to take four lanes and turn it into three lanes and well well wait a minute you're going to it people get upset when you but so Orange Avenue I mean a long time ago we were talking about road diet on Orange Avenue people lost their minds. Well, and so there's a
there's a concept I do a lot of neighborhood design like we have this concept and I do work in wellness way concept of your garage is your trail head, right? So instead of having to get in a car with the family, go drive to a trail head, work a car, now you're on a
trail. Um what what if the garage was your trail head? What if some of your local neighborhood streets selectively you got to figure out where they are going to and you got to deal with people sometimes trail they don't want to trail in their front yard and I get that
they're issues but what if you went down some of your neighborhood streets you don't have to do them we're talking about three or four of these things city we're not talking about put them everywhere but if you went down some of your local streets and kind of brought
the trail to the neighborhood Well, the the the master plan actually gave a great example uh at the dead end of Bates Avenue >> and it wouldn't be hard to put uh a bicycle bridge across across that. I
mean, that's a perfect example. So, >> you'll do nothing. You'll improve the livability of your neighborhoods. >> You will improve the market for downtown as people use those trails to get to downtown. And I would make downtown like your hub, like it's a transit system.
This is a transit system for terms. >> Where are we with the railroad? >> We're we're nowhere with the railroad because we have to do the feasibility study that determines is the railroad the right place and that's the interlocal agreement we have with the
county and Taris and Umatillaa and we had a meeting just this week I think on Monday. Um, and so we're we're kicking that off, but it hasn't even been determined that the railroad is the right place. That's the first step is the feasibility of
figuring out where where's where's the ideal location. Now, what commission decided a few years ago was downtown is where the trail needs to go because we had talked a few years ago, you know, do we go east? do we go up and connect with
Pine Meadows to the east of downtown? And the commission said no, it's got to go through downtown, which is the right answer for economic development. Um, so it's been determined that it's got to go through downtown, but the fir the first step is what we're starting right now.
>> Well, you know, on the master plan, too, it looked like in in one one scenario that the railroad was gone. So that allows you to expand the all all the way to the lake. And to me, that makes sense. Whether or not we're doing a
railroad for for the trail or just to improve what we want to do downtown, I think is important. >> I I mean, not not to be pessimistic, but I expect the railroad is going to take years and it's going to take millions of dollars. >> How did Savaris do it? They've already
bought it. >> They they've been working on it for what, 10 years now? >> Um and the railroad has been fickle. Like, we're in out or in or out. It depends on railroad leadership. And they're back in now. From what I heard,
the railroad is back in now, but it's going to be millions of dollars. And it's state, it's local, it's county, it's a lot of folks are coming together to make that happen. So, the message is
stay on that, play the long game, stay on that regional trail, but in the interim, you can do a lot to do your own trails and don't wait don't wait for the downtown trail. Build those things into your into your historic core. Bring make
it easy for, you know, not not to get in the car and bring the kids downtown on Saturday or Sunday or and go have a meal and, you know, go use the lake. And um I I predict if you do some of the things we're talking about here, um I know your
lakefront is crowded during your special events. I don't know how crowded it is on a typical Saturday or Sunday. It's going to get crowded. That's exactly what you want. >> If we're doing these fingers, I call them, which I think is just phen I mean
I was we heard about it before, but your emphasis of it I think is just that's just that's wowed me so far. The biggest we have to coordinate that with our um building department with our plans to make to what require developers to to to
make access for that. >> Sure. >> I don't know. Can we legally do that? >> Well, so if you It depends on the route. You you're trying to bring it let's say you're trying to bring it to Fair Park. Okay. So, you're going to go through your downtown. Um again, I don't your public works staff, your engineer, they
know your infrastructure. They'll they're going to advise um on the best routes. The beauty of it is it's yours. You you don't have you don't need anybody else's permission. maybe if you're crossing a state road or something, you know, signalization or whatever, but for the most part, it's
yours. If you put it um in front of a a a development site, let's say you own the three blocks, maybe it goes in front of the three blocks and it's there for several years before the development occurs. Any developer that comes there, you say to them, it's real stank. You
know, you you you develop the private market when it sees that will say that trail is an asset. I want to be on this site because the trails there because my tenants, the people that are going to live there, the people are going to shop there, whatever, are going to are going to be trail people.
So, think of it as not as a as a detriment, think of it as an asset. In today's in today's world, um trails are as good as um we did a trail on an electric easement
and uh in um between Orlando and Winter Park called Katy Way. And when that trail went in, the residents of Winter Park went absolutely ballistic because it was behind their lots. They fought the worst. This was 20 years, 25 years.
They fought the worst. My goodness, the worst kinds of people are going to be coming to their trail. It's terrible. Two years later, they were all replacing their fences and creating gates so that they could use the use the trail. It's the it's it's a it's an amenity now
that I think and you can amenize your neighborhoods if you figure out the right routes. They're great. They're great trail planning firms that can help you help you figure that out. And it's a lot of that is completely under your control. Is there any correlation between trails and increase in property
value? >> Yeah. >> Um I believe so. Um >> there's a report that's out there that said 10%. >> Have you seen that? >> I' I've heard that number. I've heard that. So there you go. you know, your capital investment gets you paid back in terms
of property valuing property tax still a thing, right? Right. That's a discussion. Okay. Um thoughts on this? To me, this was this was a clear this was a clear win. Um, yeah, there's lots
of there are lots of work to do on all these things and and that's maybe what we want to talk about next. So, why don't we do this? Why don't we take a little break? Um, we can take advantage of Tom's >> buffet and uh maybe we'll reconvene in
10 minutes if that's okay. I know we're going to try and shoot to finish by 11:30 because I know you got lunch coming in and I don't ever want to stand between elected official. The iced tea gabble has been struck. Hey, what's
>> Oh, sorry. I thought it was >> NYC. >> Okay. So before we embark, I'm going to challenge you to discuss amongst yourself everything we talked about to
this is Daniel Bur. Daniel Burham is the designer of Chicago. Most of us have probably been to Chicago. We see the Chicago waterfront. That was his doing. And he had this saying, make no little plans.
You're not Chicago. I get it. But the kind the message is the same. We don't have they don't stir men's blood. Little little incremental things. We want to think big. We want to think bold. I know we have resource constraints, but you
need to think big. And um remember the legacy of him and his message about the Chicago. It's now probably one of the most attractive in the world um in terms of of drawing people and creating
public realm places. You're not Chicago. Not suggest you Chicago. I'm not don't want you to grow like Chicago. I want you to grow like Eustace. But his message resonates um and has throughout my career and I encourage people to think big. Don't be
afraid. You can always pair back. It's harder to rethink big again once you once you set up once you set a direction. Okay, we're going to establish um some short and long-term priorities and we're going to do that
through a flip chart here. I've got your um your goals as you listed that um I want to along the lines of Burnham. I don't know if any of you have ever seen this book called Power Broker. Um Power
Broker is 1500 pages. I'm 1300 pages. It's it's a hard read unless you're a New Yorker. Robert Moses was the man. He was never elected. He was an appointed official. And Robert,
this is the story of how Robert Moses built New York, New York City by every means possible, twisting arms, encouragement, political influence, um going to the legislature, being involved in and it's it's an amazing
story of executing on a vision uh and his vision. He built all the expressways, he managed the toll uh system, he built Shea Stadium, he built the World's Fair. This is a man who is the epitome of execution of projects.
You need a Robert Moses. Okay, [clears throat] that's one of my messages today. As we as we talk about your priorities and where you want to go, whatever it is, you need one person singularly that gets
up every day and thinks nothing about anything but your priorities for downtown and executes on those. And that can it's not your city manager because city manager got a lot on their plate. It's got to be one person that does
nothing but thinks about how to execute your downtown. It comes from within your staff. I another recommendation to you is you need your Eustus Robert Moses. Okay? I don't know who that is. He or she uh but at the end of the day you
want to be successful. You want to Who told me? Somebody told get something done. You want to get something done, you need your Robert Moses. Okay, I'm through preaching. Um, there are your priorities. I happen to think they spoke a lot about what you
told me, but now it's time for us to hear from you. We talked a little bit about these, but let's let's hear from you. Where are you on these? How do you feel? What's missing? Is there something missing? Is it is it spot on? Could you get behind this?
Could you deliver the message that you know this is where we're going? These are the these are the if you took the top three, this is what we want to focus on. And then we can talk about what is, you know, we we actually spent some time talking about the trails. I think we got a good idea at least discussion about
what does that really mean? Um the waterfront can mean a lot of different things, a lot of things going on down there. We should spend I talked about that. What do you What do you like about the things we talked about? What's your concern? You probably should throw in the swimming pool and the [singing]
community center and you know, maybe Sharp's mobile home park and all the things that are on the water. You know, where you know, some of the things that you believe or don't believe in. And then the hotel, I know you've had some lots of discussions about hotel. You've got some proposals in front of you. You
know, kind of where you are now. this is my time to listen to you um talk about some of these things. I'm going to take some notes and uh you know see if we can't flush out some of these things because what we really want to get to is
we really want to get to this next steps, right? So in order to do that I need to hear from all of you and see if we can't see if we're all in the same place. I think that u at least for me uh my
number one priority would be uh getting started. Uh I think the bans show would probably be a great place to start. Uh that's the center of of our waterfront. >> Mayor, what about the dam? What is it?
When you say dance, what does it mean? >> I I think it needs to be uh I it needs to be updated. Uh, and I don't mean to take away the historic uh, uh, part of it, but
uh, right now it just looks like a building that's sitting in the middle of the park and and not, you know, and not a very nice building. >> Does it does it provide the the function
that you think it can provide or Does it have greater potential? >> Oh, I I I think it does. Um I think it provides it, but I think because it's the the hub of of of park and parenting park is the hub of
our downtown. And if we want to have more private uh events down there, I think that gets us started. Uh and someone said something about low hanging fruit. We own it.
Let's get it started. If we build it, they will come. I think that's just a lot of things we need. >> Well, I um I agree with you, but I see some challenges with the waterfront lakewalk and then do we want to build something
in front of our marble home park and have that as a background. I mean, the lake walk has been there for years. How much How much money did that that cost to [clears throat] uh to build? So, I guess I guess what I'm trying to say, we're kind of limited
right now on what we can do with the waterfront until we decide if we want it in front of Sharks and then >> going further north. >> Yeah. Going towards Eustus Waterfront Grill and then how we deal with the uh
prominade around the lake. So you're talking about going sort of southwest is what about opportunities going north? >> Yeah. >> On the other side of the lakewalk. >> Yeah. Interesting. >> So [snorts] there are some constraints. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. That so in this world that we live in spring sitting there that's easier then how do you deal with the water or whatever you want to call it? There there are going to be issues. There going to be environmental issues and engineering design issues, property
ownership issues, lots of issues. But again, think big. If if that's if you can see what a a longer continuous continuous waterfront prominade would look like and what it could mean to
downtown. Let's let's let's you know, that's where we ought to go. You got a bunch of people who sit behind you. They can figure out how to Um >> well I I I would wonder we we can talk
about Sharps Park all day long but we don't we don't own it. >> And um the second thing is I think the idea of moving the pool is great. That is I like the comment you made that it is downtown um property that we could utilize in a better way and bring more
people to it. >> I suspect I don't know if your parks and directors here but I I suspect that there's [clears throat] there's grandma funds and state funding. I don't know that you have to carry that load yourself. And so that's that's
something that you know I think it does nothing but increases the value of your water. You got to figure out where it goes. You got to figure out how to fund it. You got to design it. But these are all things you control, right? And so um add that to the list of water. I
apologize for my handwriting. I'll clean it up. I'll produce a summary of everything at the end to but uh >> and when it gets done >> of course >> and when it happens >> and and again um that that becomes a budgetary issue and resource issue and
things like that and so what we want to do is we want to get all these ideas in one place and then you know let your staff come back to you and say here's how we think we can execute on these things and what are the resources it's going to take to do it. Also, we've been talking about the boat and the
[clears throat] u um what is the what the planes sea planes. So, yeah, it seems like if we get that going, that helps us a lot in uh in being able to attract tourism and uh I don't know where we are on that, but I I think
that's a um a good step to begin with. >> Yeah, I think we're doing you're absolutely right. And we have the fresh market that's now >> new and gone from once a month to every week.
>> And that's one of those. >> Well, and let's I mean, let's uh let's go ahead and deal with the elephant in the room. And there's no place for anyone to stay in downtown. Mhm. >> So, >> and and I just I just met someone last
night from the Major League Fish Fishing Circuit said that he could he could get Major League Fishing here if we had a place for people to stay um in downtown. >> Well, we also have a sailing scene and all the people that come from all
overact have no place to stay. >> We currently have a a a fishing uh >> [snorts] >> fishing group that fishes in our lake and gives awards every uh is it every two weeks or every
>> week that they do where they private sector does that. >> Is it the magic fishing the >> No, it's kind of a local group. It's kind of a local group. You have bass fishing, you know, they all pay a fee and they get back their their winnings and their house takes a little. We
haven't but we haven't been able to escalate it. Yeah, I think we could attract even bigger bigger tournaments if we we had somewhere for I I I've been saying it for three years. I think a hotel should be pretty much at the top of >> and you know today you don't have to say
where the hotel has to go, right? >> We're not we're not doing that today. What we're saying is hotel is one of your top three priorities and you know whoever your Robert Moses is got to come to you with you know strategy for
getting a hotel. >> We brought a we brought the mayor brought a football coach in to to our uh high school and uh the most simplest thing to book a room for him, we had to go out of our town. >> Yeah.
>> We had no place to put the guy that we would trust, his family. >> And that's what happens with when the evaluators come from American loom. >> We have to find a hotel outside of the city for them to stay. Well, and this this this goes back to what I've been saying, too, that I think we have to be
we have to be in charge of our own destiny. If we think a hotel is what we need to do, then damn it, we need to find a way to get a hotel done. And and and we've all just pretty much piggybacked on the we want all these people to come to town, but we have nowhere for them to
stay. So, >> I think we're unified on that. I don't know that I've heard a commissioner say no hotel. Where we lose each other is where when >> you get that's where we get off >> because followup discussions
>> will be when we when you schedule a discussion of hotel you're going to flush out all the options and figure out where the how the best and I assume there's been some market analysis of hotel and there's some level of demand
that's justified >> maybe maybe not of first things you have to start with, right? >> Yeah. Well, and it's and I think it's something that you you you really eloquently said that if we can just start with something like that, it'll spur it'll spur development outside
outside of that. And um I mean, I really think we need to consider the proposal we had to us already >> and I think the county has right you guys have a incentive for us
if we do. Is that still open? Are we hotels. >> And then what what do you do? And then it >> uh I mean some of it is >> meeting space >> meeting space.
I mean any combination of any of those things hotel rooms or specialty boutique style that's something that's cleaned or specialy type hotel. I think what in general what Lake County
sees is that the market will drive where hotels go. But in general, highly hotels don't come to Lake County. Part of that proximity to so close to Orange County for those have a place to
stay. So it's really a driven style >> and and imagine having something like that right on the lake. >> So, can I ask you a couple questions about your process? >> Yes. >> So, you're saying it's set up for five
hotels. Is it first come first serve? >> Or is there an annual process for hotels or a total of 10 years that Um they would apply to the office of economic development. You would consider
the application and bring it to the project to the position for their consideration or >> and what form does the grant take? Is it a is it a reate of tourist TDT?
based on their portion of >> Okay. So, >> uninorated only >> the county's portion. >> Yeah. Our portion. >> Yeah. >> So, it's a rebate.
>> We don't like the word rebate. But the hotel we know how good you are at night this week. She had some great success in clubs. >> Yes. that would have to be sustained through
the life of the year. >> And let's not forget the city, you have the ability to do something very similar with your property tax as well. So you you've got some tools, you know, you said it's a priority. You've got some tools. There's some
financial incentives here as part of a package. You just got to figure out what that package is and and where and what and who and you've got You're like, this is in your realm of control to to a great degree. As long as somebody in the
private sector sees the market opportunity, sees S E S, not S I Z. [laughter] The the the hotel and the three blocks are important. However, if the first two are taken care
of, it will draw the economic development to the hotel and the private sector. And I think we've been pushing the other things too much and not concentrating on the things that we can get done. So, I I truly believe if we'll
work on the trails, the waterfront, it will it will spur what we need to get the hotel and the private sector partners all in the three blocks. I think that's um what what else
it to do this I just want to make sure are we comfortable if we if we said here's what we concluded today the waterfront the uh trails and the hotel that's our that's what we're going to
That's one of the easiest. Really? >> Yeah. >> I have a question. >> With the hotel, does the parking come with it? >> That's up to us. >> I think the market would demand that there be some parking. >> Yeah, >> correct me if I'm if I'm wrong. When a
hotel comes, parking is required by the hotel. Some certain amount of parking is required. >> So, there will be parking for that, right, Mike? before a flag comes, they'll tell you we need a 100 parking spaces.
>> Now, in bigger cities, hotels are built without parking, but you got a $40 or $50 rate. So, I don't think you guys are there yet. So, I would fully expect the first hotel that comes into your market is going to have some on-site parking,
nearsight parking. I mean, that really the operator's got to work that out with whoever it may be. Now when you say the the first hotel, do you foresee a town of our size having three?
>> Yes, [laughter] I do because I'm not thinking about three years from now. >> I'm thinking about your grandkids and you know the legacy of this. People will look back at this commission and say this commission was singularly focused
on these three things executed on it and it it set the template for Eustus to be even a greater place than it is is today. So you would love to have the problem of two or three hotels coming to you and saying we want to be in downtown. That would be
>> that would be a good problem to have. used to historically had many many hotels in their downtown >> in your economic history. Yeah. Right. But your economic history has changed and now we need to reinvent >> your economic history. And what it is is
is um you know Mr. Bowman talked about amenities for a particular project. I like to think of your downtown as the singular most important amenity of anything that's built there. You got to think of your downtown as amenitizing your real estate. And so the things that
you can control, the things that you invest in, you're building amenities, you're not building them for people who are staying overnight. You're building them for the people living, right? But part of the part of the quality of your life is you have these special events where people come from out of town. You
need a place to stay. >> And as the next I see, correct me if I'm wrong, that the next generation, not the old phobies that we are here, the next generation wants those things more so than we were. my my experience in building real estate all over Central
Florida is that's absolutely correct that I mean I ever since co I don't want to work people want to recreate you know it's the world has kind of changed uh maybe the work ethic that we all grew up
with is sort of very very different now but my kids are in their young 30s it's about quality of life they have great positions they've done well, but if they if they get a lower salary but an improved quality of life, it's it's
that's a no-brainer decision. So, it's all about the experience. You know, they they will pay more for an experience they will for some some tangible item. So, it's the experience of of downtown. I think that's the future. >> And we saw that in the Mega Workplace
where Pam and I fought over all the things she [clears throat] wanted to put in there and I budgeted tried to knock them all out and then I had to say she was right. But those things brought people in that I I don't think are necessary. But it does it doesn't matter
what I think. The new generation, if we don't think about them, then we're not going to prosper where we are. So I think some of those >> give people a reason to come together. >> That's what they want. That's what the next generation. My father said work day to night, pay everything off every and
be zero debtree. opinion is smart debt. Same what you're saying, smart debt is good. >> Yeah, I think there's an opportunity for you guys to be really smart. I had a conversation with your finance director and there's there's you know within within reason you guys don't aren't
carrying a lot of debt in my opinion and you're in pretty good you're in pretty good financial shape but uh you know strategic debt to achieve certain things to get them done at a certain time you know is should be one of the tools in your pocket in your body. I Going back
to what you were saying earlier, I mean paraphrasing a little bit, but uh creating places and spaces where people want to be and the market will take care of itself. But I think it also applies to economic development, workforce
development. If you're creating places and spaces where people want to be, workforce development will take care of itself. >> And so I think it it appi that applies in a variety of ways to us. I don't know if I should tell the uh story of the uh
studio that relocated from Eustace to Mount Laura, but those are exactly uh those they went because the district was the amenity. You can get those guys back. You can get companies like that to relocate in your downtown because you
are going to build the singularly best waterfront downtown in Central Florida. I believe it. I believe that's that's your destiny. You just got to stay absolutely focused and you got to find your Robert Moses or Moses.
Other thoughts is a golf cart um friendly community. How does that rate in your mind? >> Um it never came up in our discussions. Um communities do that. Um and I'm
excluding the villages. I think Winter Garden has to various golf carts. I have not seen enough to know whether that's good or bad. I I see people in golf everywhere even when I,
[clears throat] you know, they're the road they're licensed vehicles on the road. Um if that's an easier way for people to get around, um maybe there's some benefit to that. Do you have people coming to you and saying, "Hey, we want
to I don't know how many >> I think I think our challenge is they road >> state >> state road state road >> but Taris has now proved that they got exception but they got it worked out through Tallahassee crossing 441 which
is six lanes so >> that's only one location there >> I think there's two I think there's one >> there's one >> and there's one on 19 >> and where's the other one >> dead river is Yeah, there's one there, too.
>> So, yeah, >> if you believe that access to your downtown will improve economic development, I say you do. >> Does it count as a parking balance? >> Well, you probably want a different kind
of parking. Um, I mean it would take up apartment space >> or maybe multiple carts per space. >> Pardon? I'm sorry. >> Maybe we can fit too or even have to
figure out how to I personally haven't had a lot of experience with with >> There are some golf carts too. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. But this is what we do all the time.
We're not welcome on another subject. >> But let me let me let me help you there. We're talking about downtown economic development and we're talking about trying to create more economic activity and so a question came up. It's it's been out there for you for a while whether whether carts are good or bad.
It's probably worth a little bit of discussion. I I think that's okay to deviate a little bit. It's not centrally focused in what we're doing, but we are talking about the waterfront and you know, the trail system um and uh of the
hotel. These are all drivers of of quality of life and the economic activity. And so the golf cart's a sort of a secondary or third tertiary issue. It may or may not be beneficial. You should judge it on whether you think it's going to be beneficial for economic development. And so it's okay. It's okay
to deviate a little bit. I won't let us go down. >> Yeah. And I agree with Emmy. I'm concerned about squirrel every every time we make a list. >> I bet you have some squirrel. >> I bet he has some squirrel. >> Thank you for giving that.
>> My my thought on that my thought on that, Emily, before I drop it is that if we have a golf cart and you're thinking way ahead, if we have some of that, coming to Houston, exploring the waterfront, going down to Trout Lake, uh exploring some of those things becomes a
thing. If you look at the Keys, if you look at other marketplaces, using those trends. The kids of tomorrow want those carts. You see those little carts everywhere you rent and do. So it it adds to getting people to go outside. >> My vision has used street from the top
to the bottom to the police department as all part of the long plan. >> It's it's something you should consider. It doesn't take away from your waterfront hotel trails. >> What frustrates me is that we're on something and we don't really finish it
and then we go to something else. finish the priorities today. I assure you, I'm not leaving until I get, you know, we get by and I think you guys I think you're there. I haven't heard anybody say that those top three things aren't what you should be focused on. I think now we're sort of getting into the next
level of well, what does some of those things mean? We've kind of flushed out. I mean, we had that opportunity to hear from the county about, you know, the hotel, but you know, to understand some of the tools you have to execute on it. We don't want to do all that today. But it's consistent with the priorities that
I did hear about ready to set. So um and and occasionally we deal with other issues. Now somebody want to talk about a you know um some some issue that really isn't other thoughts.
So what are our action items? I'd like I'd like to get I don't know if we're taking we're not taking any formal right I'd like to get sh a nod of heads that the three priorities that we've identified out of this entire process
waterfront trails and motel that's that's our mission that's what we're going to live and breathe and uh like you have your your downtown goals and framed in the building in several
places. And I'd like to have those three priorities plastered at the top of every every agenda. You know, just to remind ourselves those are the three things we're going to focus on. So, how are we going to execute, right? >> I think first thing is we got to get the
boat >> the boat downtown, >> you know, at the park at Park. >> We had a pontoon uh Some of us met with a pontoon manufacturer in Tibar.
They're holding a pontoon boat for us to dock in the downtown Baron Park behind the chamber area and uh we haven't been able to get their dock into place yet. >> So, we're working on engineering, but the project is on the unfunded list. So,
an action item might be get that off the unfunded list. >> And we see plenty. >> Yeah. We got we got that >> right >> and and I think we're in in a good position. I think we're about to do a
test of the C plane in the next few months. So I think that >> okay we we have identified a refresh of the band shell potential relocation of the pool. We've done anything about the potential relocation of the pool. Uh, no. And I think we need to to look at
that. But the the only thing about that is there's >> some other things that the city and the county may be doing that may affect what we do with the food service. So, we need to >> program
how would the help understand the >> um strategic relocation. >> Yes, strategic relocation. So there are some things that we're >> we're trying to work out and we don't want to get too far ahead of it.
>> Okay. Well, you've identified it as a >> step towards the downtown, >> right? >> Maybe today isn't the details of what what happens, you know, A, B, and C, but you've identified it as dealing with it as the next step. And uh
>> and if we're able to do that, we may not do it for a couple of years. >> I'm happy to [clears throat] give an overview of what we're thinking like. I mean, it's going to be um so we we have been in conversations with the Lake County school board and so there are some thoughts about the Kurtbrite campus and so the city wants to express our
interest in the Kirkbrite campus and so the next step would be to work on a letter and vet that through commission make sure everybody's supportive of that and then get that to Lake County School Board just to express our interest of that Kurt Wright campus
>> possible >> right 9th graders go to a different campus than 10th, 11, 12th. The school board is currently building the expansion on the main campus. So that >> they are going to take the ninth graders
onto the surplus >> and so there is a a large campus that will be available for students. >> So again, we don't have to deal with the details here, but it sounds like there's some options. >> Exactly. And so the the idea of the pool
relocation, I'm not I mean obviously it's subject to the details about how it would happen and how much it would cost and where the funding would come from. Granted, but the idea of relocating it to create more economic opportunity along the waterfront. I'm not hearing
opposition to that. I'm hearing the devil is in the details on how you're going to execute. Unless Commissioner, you've got um >> Well, did um didn't the master plan of Carver Park identified that the pool would go there >> or
>> there was some discussion about an aquatic facility at Carver Park. >> So, just just for Yeah. >> You may have options on where that's you're going to have lots of discussion about all of these things, but what I'm hearing is you're not saying to your
staff, don't continue to think about the relocation of the pool. The relocation of the pool could be an important economic development um um amenity improvement to where it goes and to where it's coming from. And
so I'm I'm I'm hearing that's okay. You know, we're going to include it in our thinking and that's kind of what what we're talking about next step. I think that we can we can build a lot of especially if this Olympic size pool you know there's a lot of stuff that we
can do you know we bring the the bass fishing you know we have swimming tournaments and you know things like that so >> the so if I may ask commissioner Holland who's been here a long time and a long
time um I mean the the pool is It's a historic building. It's It's at a historic location. What are your thoughts on as as someone who's been here a long time? What are your thoughts about relocating that? >> That's that pool is 70 years old, Tom,
and we're throwing loads of money into it. That pool needs to be relocated, rebuilt. Um it it it will enhance the band shell. It will give space at that band shell for receptions, for different
things that we could do to bring in bigname entertainment to the band shell itself. Um, long overdue to be honest with you. So, I'm I'm hearing high level big idea.
Okay. Devil's in the details on how to execute. Okay. And the band shell, I don't know. Are we doing anything? >> We do. We have a capital improvement project. >> So all of these things are in play to except maybe the sharps, but we've
identified sharps as a constraint. We've also said it's an opportunity. Um it's got a high cost. And I would tell you that that is consistent. potentially acquiring it. Maybe it's acquired by the privacy, but potentially acquiring it is
a is something that would benefit your great bold water. >> And if that's something you do, you have to you have to be ready for what comes with the acquisition.
>> Yeah, it's not it's not easy. >> It's not easy. It's got a lot of issues associated with it. But again, thinking about your legacy, does that fit into your legacy of a great waterfront? And the answer is probably yes. And see in head shape, how you execute, we're you
know, we're going to you're going to spend some time thinking about how to how to do them. So I think all of these things sort of are subcomponents. One thing you haven't really touched upon and I think we need to talk about it is
>> I don't want to maybe use the third rail of waterfront discussion. I mean do you see it as part of the waterfront? >> Yes. Yes. Part of the problem again is what was stated before. Where are we
going to what are we going to provide for the community? Whatever we decide on that that's important. >> The community is using it. They're getting value out of it. You can't just eliminate that value, right? So, it comes with we got to be we got to think
smart about how do we replicate the value that the community gets out of it. and lots of different ways to do that, lots of ideas, but is the relocation um or reuse of the community center property kind of consistent with that big bold vision of a great waterfront
downtown? >> Yes. >> And in talking about your u convention center in Orlando, it didn't end up where they initially wanted it. It ended up miles down the road, but there were bigger people. >> But that was that was the convention
center. the community use of the building had to be replicated. We went to I mean this building could be you know there's there's if I see shaking I didn't mean that this building but there are other ways to accommodate the community value. I mean I still got
started on my back from from that. It's it's not easy but it can be done. And so my question to you is I if you're thinking bold and big my recommendation to you would be keep it on your list of things that would make, you know, a
great your great waterfront. Got to spend some time figuring out that puzzle because that puzzle is going to be a challenge. >> May I give you I'm sorry. >> May I give you just an update of where we are on that as far as an action item that could be a good one. So, we
presented a a potential draft RFP for the community center site to commission. And so, we got some great feedback from commission. Hey, we want to see this. We want to see this. We want to see this. Well, that's got to be added into the RFP. And so I think that's a really good action item is maybe get that back on the agenda for commission and get their
edits to that RFP. >> So you got a little something. >> One of the things that you know uh that I think may be a possibility at least if we're able to make that transition to the school
we're going to have a lot of car park that's only that's possibility that we we own it.
We have a water. That's a possibility. Again, lots of lots of different ways to execute. But is the re, you know, is the reuse of that site part of a big bold downtown uh downtown and waterfront downtown? I'm seeing that shape. doesn't
mean there aren't they're in hair all over them. I know, but I think it's probably one of you on the list of executable projects. >> I think the right I think the right project.
>> What are we not what are we missing here on this list of executable tasks and projects? I think you know is is this the right time to say identity? Is this the right time to
figure out are we a going to be a tourist destination? Are we going to be a uh a a a producer of jobs? Where are our priorities that we build around outside of so to say the downtown on the on the
bigger picture which then feeds the downtown? Is that too advanced or >> um I think probably beyond the scope of what we want to talk about today. It's not that those aren't legitimate questions, but those are sort of citywide economic development questions. I think
>> if you want to build, what I heard from you is you want to build a great >> legacy downtown waterfront and you, you know, you told us about goals, you told us about priorities, um your strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, all the things we kind of wound up here. Now, if
you evolve, whether you want to talk about the the bigger city economic function, I think that's probably a discussion for another day. >> I agree. Is Fair
what we want it to be? >> Great question. And mayor Well, I spent a lot of time on that. Maybe we consider that a rhetorical question right now. But as you consider all of these other things, you know, as
you advance sort of some of these projects, you start looking at I know the master plan has some design concepts for the water, >> but it's typical with these kind of projects. That master plan is just it's teasing out ideas. you've got to come
back and probably do the next level of con conceptual design and brainstorming. And I I think that question could get answered as part of the next step of water. But I think I'm going to put maybe a wall
park. There's things in it and other things, but that could all be part of the revisioning of the waterfront and certain things that should be and shouldn't >> and we we did um I mean this was before
my time, but I think as a result of the 2008 downtown plan. We did a Fen Park master plan that we ended up implementing in like four phases and the last of those four phases was
probably five or six years ago. Um, and I'm not I'm not saying we can't reinvision Fair Park. I'm just saying we're we're only five or six years off of that last effort. Um, >> and uh but if that was a different
commission and it's time look at it again. Then we look at it again. >> That was the brick roads. We've done all that, right? That was >> Yeah. I mean, we redid the around the fountain. We had the personalized bricks. Those all came out and removed and uh we redid the shade structures and
perola and the multi-use paths and the oval and the electrical. Yeah. >> Yeah. And well, is that and of course it was a different commission, but is that
in keeping with what we want to do moving forward and we know that we want to go north? Do we start working that phase?
>> Well, one of the things I would suggest in going to conferences with American the beauty of the park. There's so much we can do as far as making it more attractive. And if you if you go like different places, you you see all of the flowers, you see the trees, you see all
of these sculptures, things like that. Um, we really should. And I really want us to think about bringing art back, you know, and and to into our that adds value also. So, >> yeah, that, you know, the whole attraction of art and you know, with the
not the performing arts and the and the um you know the the art itself that there there was that kind of was a theme that w its way through some of that but a great downtown waterfront will attract great art shows and great um you know
public art too opportunity. So as you think about the band show and you think about the pool and you think about the community center and as all those things string together maybe it is time to refresh the thinking about and park and how what what it really is
as it as it moves as it moves on expands. >> And then we need to get those associated projects in the CI complicating things. >> Sorry. >> We understand there's limited resources
again focus on big things. We're good. I I just want to share with everybody. I know I talk too much, but so be it. If you look at if you look at Altimont Grace, my myself and Pam have grown through that. I've been here all my life, but
that's a perfect example. If you remember back when it was first built, there was surrounded by some offices and it was a dead retention. Right now, it's the hub. And it, by the way, it's the most beautiful place to go see Christmas lights right now. I don't I don't like it, but it's utilized Lake Yola
>> after Lake Yola. Okay. So, I'm not too familiar with that, but that's what Eustus can be too around that in its form. That's our that's our our place and the restaurants now. They have some of the best restaurants around. >> Commissioner, that's a great example of
investing in the public realm in the private sector responding >> because they now have a sort of they call it uptown and there's a whole new district privately developed that uh that created as a product of the public investment. That's exactly what we're
talking about here is focus on the public investment. I know the hotel is a private investment and that's important but the things that you can control um the other stuff will happen. >> I just want to share that great vision and lift it and put it in.
>> It's a good example. Anything else on this list, >> you know? There's one item I never really thought about till this last weekend. We were driving uh north and is there a way for us to capitalize on the
Ocala forest as part of uh really there's no hotel right that I could think of other than those small the Fox and whatever between the Ocala forest. We are the gateway to the to the Ocala forest. We are 19 takes you straight up.
Just something to keep in mind and for me to share with you. There might be some way to grab some staying used to go to the park stop after that here. Trout lake it now becomes a a local forest trout lake downtown restaurants
waterfront. You know what I mean? >> That's the 5 10 maybe 15 years. >> Experience the city and experience nature on the weekend. >> You do it right by staying in downtown Houston. >> You don't have that in Claremont. You
don't have that in Dora. You don't have that ins. >> You don't have that anywhere that I can think of up in North Lake. But >> so that's that's differentiating yourself in the marketplace. And I think when you get to the point of when you're ready to go or you have a proposal for a
hotel, whatever, I think that's in concert with that oper with that developer and operator how best to market the property. And I think that's those that's creative thinking about out of the box, you know, packaging up like a weekend uh city park experience.
>> Probably for if you watch all of us watch going down Bay Street, every once in a while you'll see these big trucks with a big trailer in the back with 15 ATVs, it seems, and a whole family and kids popping on everywhere and everything
like that. That's a that's a potential. They're coming down our main road. Can we get them to stop in downtown and spend some money? Just lift the bar. >> One of the things I think that we, you know, we talked about what we'd like to see, I think what we really are going to
need before we start working on any of that, we're going to need the engagement of the downtown. [snorts] >> So, the business. >> Yes. Yeah. Definitely, you know, we had uh we have events uh that we do and you know, nothing
against them, but you know, we have businesses that that won't stick or don't. So, we have to get past that connection, that relationship. >> I agree. And getting them to work together. I remember um [snorts] when I was director of children services
meeting with downtown merchants association and they don't have that anymore, but getting them to work together and and to contribute and to put effort into what we're doing would be great. >> Yeah. You know, we we we do light up
and I don't know how many and you know, we light up through the city. I don't know how many businesses actually participate. >> Well, that message came through loud and clear both from the staff and from you said not necessarily you guys aren't necessarily connected with the downtown
businesses. >> Um That's the answer. Well, I think that's something we can actually >> even First Friday, you know, a lot of other seasons still open to be a part of. >> We just for you to know, we we had our light up, this last light up. I don't know if you caught this or not, but
according to our um department heads, we had the largest attendance, am I right, Tom? That we think we can ever track was at light up just a couple weeks ago. And I I was at the Michael Ray concert which was huge attraction. Our local guy
>> and I [snorts] don't think there were that many people as there was for this last light up. So, and a lot of them came from far away places. We talked to a lot of them at one of the local restaurants that I spent time at that night. >> And there were more people that never came to use. Why did they come for light
up here? I don't know. Maybe they thought it was going to be less crowded, but it was really crowded. So, they will come up here if we give them some reason to come up. And the weather was perfect, too. So, We have a placer subscription and so we
pulled the data and it was almost 10,000 people which we think is the largest. So there's no question special events are critical to your downtown and u it it's what we talked about earlier the
experience you know the unique experience and that light up is a unique uses once a year right it's a unique experience and so >> we're seeing peaks also in our fresh market something we never not in my time I don't know Mike how often have you
guys had anything like that in downtown >> we had one on clipper when we had the resource center and and this person scheduled it for every Wednesday. So it it never really took off because of timing and
then it was cold and but the attempt was made attempt was made but it was not successful. So this sounds >> I personally love to go there. It's part of my family. Me and my wife >> we go there and then we go to one of the restaurants but uh
>> that is located in Yeah. >> And that was our number one thing. Activate >> that was our first number one thing in the >> master plan. Activate the water. >> That's number one what you told us today. >> Yeah.
>> So we have the potential. It's we have the we have the audience. We just have to get about the trail. So, we really don't have trail notes, but I think we have a good robust discussion about the potential for the trails. So, I'll write up some notes about that. We'll write
summary of what the things that we think are actionable items on the on the waterfront and then we talk about the hotel and that good input. I would tell you if any other thoughts or questions,
concerns. Um, I want to congratulate you because you went through this process. You spent the time to spend time with me. You came together today and I think you have a very clear, concise set of priorities that you want
to focus on. And I think I think you've achieved what you had what you said you wanted to get done today in terms of outcomes for the workshop. You wanted to build consensus. You wanted clear said clear priorities and direction. Um I've heard it. Hopefully you agree with me
that you heard it. And um I want to congratulate you for the time that we spent. I think we're done. Um unless there's any other um questions or comments or anything anybody wants to uh add to the discussion. I I I appreciate
the opportunity to do this. Uh and I think you kind of expose what we do, but the loud voice does not um I think because there was so many loud voices in whom we weren't able to
hear each other. Um so I I think this was a great opportunity. >> I I told you nothing but what you told me. So, this is this is what you produce. This is I'm just here to sort of bring it all together. But, um, if
you guys can stay focused on these three things and work with your staff to start talking about how to execute on again, I do think you need your Robert or Moses [snorts] because um, there's a lot to do
here. Um, and you know, all the other members of your staff have lots of other things to do. Um, you need somebody seeming a little bit focused. So, that's >> I think it's it's it's been a good experience for us to all be able to make comments and and and still like each
other and in a nice reasonable way. And I I think that this is the start of where we can we're going to start working together even more so because now we have kind of goals and areas to to focus on. So, I hope that we keep this good feeling, this kumbaya moment.
Well, the first commission meeting I watched from I don't know two months ago to today completely different experience. So I I congratulate you. You guys you have the potential to be
absolutely great. You just sometimes you got to compromise a little bit but I I don't know that I heard a lot of compromises. I've heard people sort of having the same same same vision and the same set of priorities and uh I feel really good about you. I
>> think I have a round too with you. >> Uh well that's to be TDD but uh today was about today was about getting to the point where we got some actionable items. Um I'm going to write up the summary and get that to your staff and
uh you know we'll call this first round complete and I think you I think uh you set the direction that I think everybody in the room wanted you to set. >> I if I can jump in. I don't really like that. I think I would love and this is
personally [snorts] to see us leave here in my perfect wish list with a plan of the next steps. Um where do we go? Um I'm happy with what you what I've seen you do so far.
Not that I don't expect to, but we need to keep the momentum going, whether it's with you or what, but we do a good job sometimes of coming up with some great things and then dropping them. We cannot take our foot off the accelerator. And I'm sensing the way you're talking, you're taking a foot off. So, I don't
know what your time is. I don't know what your availability is. If it's not you, then we got to find somebody. But we got to keep what you just started today moving forward smartly. and uh and somebody with experience
uh to push us back into the middle to be the bumper cars. We're the bumper cars. We're all over the place. I don't doubt that. We That's how >> Not today. Today you guys are right down the fairway. >> We're We're down the fairway on the 30,000. >> Sure. >> But if you come down, it starts to
spread out. It's a >> cone. And that's my view of it. And that's okay because we're we got a good strong nucleus. We need the help of of moving that cone and keeping us in line. Um, you pushed back on most of the things I
said and and I'm I'm okay with that. I need that and I want to hear that. So, I I I don't uh fellow commissioners, I don't want to leave here with too far of a plan where we don't know where our next step is. If you guys want to say,
let's do a a workshop January X and by then get, you know, everybody to tell us where's our next step. Don't take our foot off the gas. >> That's why I asked for round two. But now we got to figure out how we're going to get where we're going. >> So that's why we have >> what I'm really saying is I'm with you
on that. I don't want to leave here go home and look at everybody and look at Miranda and Tom or whatever and say what what what next? >> Yeah. I want to know I want to leave here with some vision if I can as to what's the next. You're going to give us a report on um Tom then what do we do?
We >> we we Why don't I Why don't I suggest this? Why don't you let me get with your staff and see if we can't help answer that question for you because there's, you know, there's some unanswered questions, but I I I hear you. Um I
don't know if that's the full thinking of the commission or not, but you know, as I said, you know, you need to be bold. You need to you need to be laser focused and you need somebody to be that person is going to execute for you.
>> And can I propose to my fellow commissioners that we set a deadline for ourselves uh Emily for Emily's phase two, let's call it that she's asking about that we set a deadline that by the holidays by the end of January, pick whatever you
want that we have that we re on this. >> Let's let them have their conversation first. >> They will, but I don't want to lose sight of that. What's next? These guys got a lot This guy's got a lot of stuff going on. Just an overall, can we even have an idea? Do you have an expectation
that we should be meeting again within a month, two months, a year? >> I say, >> two weeks. >> I think we all have we all have that expectation, but I want them to have their conversation. >> They can they can do that and then we can set a we can set a time to to
reconvene. >> I say by the end of January. >> Yeah. So we're all >> we hear we hear you. It's like you you don't want the dangling partisan. You want to you want to keep this foot on the gas stove is really
>> government works very slow very slow and coming from the private sector. >> This guy did not >> some really interesting lessons in there how to get. We've got to have we've got to have the the appetite for this
what's coming. >> I'm not sure I know what that means. >> Yeah. Because there, you know, people don't like change. So, so we have to be willing to hear the noise and drown it out. You know, perfect example of that I
saw on social media we got nailed about the redoing of the roadway. We were two lanes with so two lanes, but we got nailed for everything. And I and >> I had a little thought in my mind and I was too scared to say it. But now
looking on social media, you know what? >> No, not even that worse. You know what? It looks pretty good. I saw those plants, it's about time you just did something. >> Well, >> you know, >> yeah, >> that's draining that out to some extent.
>> Thank you for being here. spending the time with me. I've really enjoyed it. I've gotten to know each of you individually and I think Eustus is blessed with a council such as you and I think you guys have got you got it. And
so I'm very hopeful for your future. >> Thank you. There's a method to my >> Okay. You want to start, Tom? >> Sure. >> Um, so rather rather than go right into
uh the other item on the agenda which is a discussion of rollovers. Um a couple of commissioners have said that they might be interested in uh some closure with Dr. Levy, a few more minutes with Dr. Levy. And so I guess I would ask is
the will of the commission that we uh we wrap up our discussion with Dr. Levy uh before we move on to anything else. Oh, we just had clos [snorts] >> Do we want to get uh do we want to get a
subsequent workshop on the calendar? >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, let's um we can look at uh calendars and >> so uh what about uh Friday, January 30th? What is everyone's available
availability on Friday, January 30th? >> Uh, Gary, you got What days are you having? Thursdays are Monday off. >> I'm good. >> I'm not good. >> Well, how about Thursday? >> What about Thursday the 29th? That is >> I'm good.
>> January has five Oh, I'm sorry. We should ask Dr. So that is that is a fifth Thursday. >> The 29th, >> January 29th. >> That's good for me. >> Good for me. >> Well, I have something at
Yeah, we have to do it probably a little later in the morning >> or the afternoon. >> We could do afternoon into evening. So, that would be Thursday. What time? Uh >> 5:30 p.m.
>> Well, do we have to do that later? >> Uh, well, I can do all day. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Uh, do you want to do something after lunch? >> 1:00. >> 1:00. 1:30. >> I'm wide open. >> Okay. Same as
>> 1:00 Thursday the 29th. >> Mr. I'll do what I can do. >> Okay. >> Uh so let's let's plan for how about 1:30 p.m. on Thursday, January 29th.
>> 1:30. Okay. And can you give me a scope? >> So we we are going to get together um as staff with Dr. Le um we are going to work through some of what we discussed today um and then we will talk
a little bit about next steps uh and then we will we'll have that discussion. >> So it's going to be a followup summary and looking at next step and us digesting what we heard and feedback interactive is that what you think uh
>> yeah I mean that's that's fine and uh if you all have any other feedback in the inter your staff to >> 11 until >> 1:30 until >> until
3:30 >> 2 hours >> and two hours goes fast with it kind of depends on what we're doing. So give us a chance to >> I'll block off till 5 and on my >> I'll block out till 5 also.
>> Okay. >> Let's not make it too complicated. >> I want to write a what's that word? What do you do with >> dissertation? Dissertation. Yeah. >> At least it's not a
>> that's an inside joke. The other thing I wanted to tell the commission was I know I generated a lot of questions in the last meeting over the budget items. I just got everything 24 hours one business day away. I am not
ready and I didn't even get my second stuff or things on there. I had an appointment with uh couple of the department heads that wasn't able to get done mostly because of my fault. But uh so I'm I'm not even close. answering my
or having my questions. So timewise I'm not going to be talking much. >> Okay. >> But if if we can utilize it, if you got anything for him, take advantage of it. I'm going to ask that we push off and and or discuss it at the 22nd, I
think you said. >> Yeah. So this is a workshop. You can't take action. >> Discussion. We were having discussion. >> Yeah. So So you you weren't going to be able to approve these today anyway. >> You're going to have to move it. I mean,
it could be on January 8th. >> Uh but because that's your organizational meeting, you try to keep the agenda light for January 8th. Uh so that uh we will be your approval of those rollovers would be January 22nd regardless.
>> And I just want to knock as many of those 60 out. If we're down to two, we're down to two. And to do it in the private in our private time rather than having to tie all you guys up. So let me Knock knock as many as I want out. You knock as many as you want out. Keep sharing the information with all of us.
>> Well, that's what I was going to say. Those of us that have looked at it and had time to go, put it out there. Would you like to, you know, what input you have? >> You know, worked for me yesterday. I met with all of them and that really opened
my eyes and enlightened me and maybe to keep all of the a longterm discussion about We each met individually with them questions and then we come back to them. >> That's great. That's what I was trying to do. >> That's going to be that's going to be
hard for me. But it's >> But I warn you that this was just my first step. There's a second step. >> So So we're not having any discussion. Can we ask like general questions? >> Let's do >> I have the list if you guys want. >> Yeah.
>> The only thing I was saying is this guy's here. Is there anything else we want to I felt like some of us felt like we left at the clip, but I guess setting a setting the workshop date. >> Yeah, we set the workshop. Let's stay
focused on what? >> Does anybody have anything else for Dr. Levy has a heart out in 17 minutes? >> Great job. >> Thank you, Dr. You too. Merry Christmas.
Okay, now we're back to >> suddenly we can knock him off that chair. Hit his Michael >> Mike. >> Hi. [laughter] >> Um, are there any that you
>> Lily? I've met with city staff. I I am fine with everything. I'm I I'm ready to move this forward to a to an agenda. All right. Uh Emily, any that you would like to >> You're good.
>> Well, um I guess I'm >> Yeah. Um, [snorts] I mean there's there's a there's a lot on here. And so so we we got an email. We we got an email I guess I guess with this the other day.
>> Yeah. >> And then when you do the math on this, it's slightly less than $2 million. and we had $6 million roll over from what we had already taken out for the uh coolage and I think a couple other small
projects. So >> this is this is an abbreviated list. This is not the entire list. And um one of one one of my questions is and it was brought up at the last meeting about like the uh the Carver
the Carver Park shade structure that we had budgeted that we didn't use for how many years. Does that does those funds show up in our reserve or are they are they at somewhere else? >> They're in the CRA and they are actively budgeted. I mean they've rolled forward
a several years uh but those are not in CRA reserves. They are actively budgeted >> even even though we haven't spent the money. They just roll over and it's part of the expense. >> It's it's in it's in an expense line item. >> Okay. But we haven't but we haven't
>> But we haven't expended the money. >> How many [clears throat] how many I mean and that's all these I'm taking, right? $6 million. These are uh these are rollovers that haven't been haven't been expended. Correct. These are projects
for the most part where no PO or purchase requisition has been issued. Now, that's a little bit of a misnomer because um for example, uh let's see. >> I mean,
I mean, just I mean, just the the trail study, it's been in the budget three years now. >> I'm sorry. >> The trail study has been in the budget three years now. county. We're going to use it this year, >> right? >> Um but that the reason it's rolled over is because it's not just a useless
project. It's a Lake County Taratilla and used project >> and the partners had to come together. I guess what I'm trying what I'm trying to get at is like all these funds that are not spent, they're not in reserves
and they show up as the budget as still an expense though and not like a not like an asset. Does that make sense? So these these projects are in you're I I don't know if I'm answering your question but yes they
they now there were projects that we said listen that's an old project that we're never going to move forward >> at that point it gets killed and it does roll into reserves. Okay. >> Now, each of these is rolling into different reserves because some of it's
40 fund, 42 fund or 68 fund. >> And so, yes, this list is made up of projects where staff has said we're not ready to kill these projects and we want we are asking that these projects roll
forward and remain in the expense line. >> Yeah. Okay. That's that's I think I I think it's where my my issue my issue is because They're showing up as a debt and not an asset because we haven't spent it. >> I don't I'm not sure I understand what
you're there. It is it is cash. >> Yeah. >> In an expense line item and yes, if we decide to kill a project, then it rolls into reserves. >> Okay. >> But these are projects where staff is
recommending that we do not kill the projects and we move forward. Now, some of these are multi-phase projects where we already did the engineering. Now, it's time to do construction. >> Okay. I just I mean, it's a lot of money. And you know, if we're going to
go and reallocate some of these funds, it would be nice to know how much I guess how much we had to to spend that hasn't been spent um in in the uh respective funds.
>> Moving that that um cover par structure to some to other >> and that's not even on here. >> No, that we just talked about that the other night. >> Yeah. So if if you're asking for fund balance figures for the various funds,
we can get you that. >> No. And and and I've seen them on the I've seen them on the budget before. It's just like we got all these we got all these funds with all these reserves, >> don't we? Most of our most of our funds have pretty healthy reserves. >> Yes.
>> Okay. So I mean and what what are our plans with all those reserves and how they how do I get such to such a large numbers. >> Well, I mean, not all of them are large numbers. I mean, the the 13 fund >> uh is our road fund
>> that does not have a large reserve. >> Well, I think water does, right? Water >> water and sewer is healthy. >> Yeah. >> Um but we we have a responsibility to our bond holders >> to maintain and continue to improve that system,
>> right? >> And that's what those reserves over time are used for, >> is maintaining improving the system. >> Okay. >> Well, I mean, I know we can go through this list and I think we all could uh be [clears throat]
we all knock some of these out really uh really really quickly. Some probably going to need some more >> beds. the list that I sent out with more information. That was a compiled list. All of the projects that we had from
different commissioners, we put them on one list. There's more information, >> right? That was this. >> All right. So, if you have a question though about something on that or not on that, we're happy to answer. >> That list that you see, [clears throat] that's a summary of the item numbers that I sent to the city that said I need
more expansion on to then follow up with my second round of now I need the details. >> So, I just got this eight hour eight work hours away one day, one business day. [snorts]
>> It would are the ones of your >> those what you're saying >> to some extent. Yeah, >> kind of. >> Are there any others on this list? >> There are some stuff on this list that I don't have uh any [clears throat]
questions on. >> But because I just got their answer, I I still don't have You can't give me Look, let me be candid. You can't give me all this information with one business day away
and expect me to come here and do a good job or a half decent job or address the questions that I need to. So, and that's not because everybody's fault. We all have things to do, but I be haste that we push this all forward because
whatever reason. But yeah, I don't have a problem with the bunker gear. There's things like that. That's what I'm trying to That's what I'm trying to get. The stuff that we all agree on uh that we don't have any issues with. That's what we need to I'd like to minimize our next
step, you know, our next meeting. I don't have enough information to be able to figure out all that. >> Okay. Bunker bunker. >> Okay. That's that's the stuff I'm talking about. Okay. Bunker gear. Uh >> I don't know if anybody else has problem with it, but I know.
>> Okay. Trail study were good. Okay, that's money we already spent, >> right? What? >> We have not expended it. >> We don't expend it, but we committed to it. >> 25,000, right? >> Well, we haven't done a PO yet, but we did commit the inter local agreement.
>> And then the next step of that is a couple hundred grand uh to do the uh P whatever the acronym is for the trails. >> Yeah. And that's staring us in the face along with a need for when we go funding from the state and this is all coming
from Mike Stevens and and I am a little overwhelmed with it. It might be good to have him explain it. Our next step is to have a couple million dollars sitting there to show the uh the state that we we have to put skin in the game. I had that had that and I'm sorry and I can
tell you as being on the on the no board if we can show that we can contribute some money it'll get done faster. So, we need $2 million set aside in a trails fund. I don't know what you call it. >> It's talking about the contractions putting money in there.
>> No, to help uh to help get the funding to uh to make it to make it. >> What I'm really saying is there's another 212,000 that we're going to have to dish out yet. I haven't heard that. >> I think that's what Michael Stevens gave
me. But, uh Okay. Any other things? You don't have any problems with >> Nope. I don't have enough information to make on that. >> Okay. Um, city hall security cameras.
>> Where are we at? How much have we spent? What are we doing forward? How much of it came from last budget? How much of it have we paid off? How much have it be paid out? >> You had that on there, right? that has been completed and that request has been withdrawn. >> So there has been some change you know
things are happening in between when you guys got the first list and now and so that's done that's been completed so you can cross that off your list >> that's security >> greenhouse that's completed >> not really
>> it's completed in a superruct I guess you can You already answered it, but >> yeah, I'm having trouble hearing from there. So, um the the structure that built in there was part when we did the 4300 was for
actually greenhouse, but then also the equipment and that water. >> So, the green houses, we hired a horiculturalist over the summer, >> right, >> who has experience with the green houses. So we kind of held the the
outfitting of it until he's there. So the structure is built. They're still doing the irrigation. They're doing as [snorts] >> there's a lot on here. My goal is is there possibly something that we need to
what I said before realign to help us do some of the priorities that are more important and they're all important that are more prioritized [snorts] than others and I think can I add one other thing off that the squirrel as he calls it
since you're bringing it up which we cannot get thrown this at the end of each year we need to do mid year and every place I was before with budgeting a midyear some even did quarterly I
think we don't need quarterly but we need a midyear review of these capital assets and a midyear realignment is that >> we talked about that with one commissioner we're open to that >> we I think it has to be a a must
>> and that what that does too is it shortens we don't wait a year before we start the next thing now someone has a good idea. >> Yeah, we can we can re >> we realign >> we can reallocate funds if we're not going to use them. I mean, and I guess honestly he he actually said it better
than me. That's actually what I was trying to get at was, you know, these if these if the if these monies are not being used and we don't plan on using them, then we need to reallocate them to something else and they need to show up as an asset, not an expense. So like the phase three drainage improvements isn't
isn't DOT doing that or do we have to >> that's I mean that's money we we reserve to do parking lot improvements. >> Oh if if there's any >> that's why you know first I heard >> well it's it's related to drainage because [clears throat] the water flows
through the parking lot. >> Oh okay. Well, yeah. See, that's a big problem >> and it's been carried over since 1920. >> You got something worth. So, yeah, originally back in
2019, we were going to resurface that parking lot. >> It wasn't going to effectively change the intersection, but rather than it going down that alleyway out on the Bay Street push. >> Oh, okay. >> So,
So then as as the job came and we looked you can get positive drainage and we shared that input at the beginning that was going to be done. They're still working in that direction last week. >> You don't really know where they're at.
What I'd like to do is we've already started what we can do not to alleviate the But to eliminate that foot and to do that
study take this much of that money. >> This is just for engineering. >> It wasn't initially but what Rick is saying is I'm requesting that because we've what did changing that parking lot
doesn't work anymore. >> So, let's focus on getting that intersection done. And yeah, it would cost >> just for engineering, not for materials and >> just and honestly that won't fix that
that would be millions of dollars not multi. We're looking at basically all the way up to the armory uh west of Mary Street. It is the downtown area. All that drainage base
and effectively causes that flood >> and right now >> in Lake Eustace will actually come out of the other. >> Yeah. Where do we pull money? Where do we do it from? Does it go there or does
it go into >> Can I help with that? >> Well, what I'd like my hope and desire was is that this gets rolled over I can get into engineering. Once I get a conceptual engineering
finished which will have some budgets right now what we can do and this is $85 million. At least I have you know and we kicked this down the
hill. It's Orange Avenue is Lake County is 19 >> and we've been doing this stuff since I've been here. >> So now I'm on the way out. >> I think we need to engineer it. I think we need to have a plan.
>> I know. But shouldn't county Lake County and D both welcome for that. >> Absolutely. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> As we move forward. Yes. Right now, no. No one is wanting to do anything. >> No one wants to do engineering is what you're saying. >> No one wants to do anything. Right. >> So, once we do engineering, then we go, we plea our case to them.
>> And this is conceptual. Once I get to conceptual, they can see what we can do. At that point, we'll reach out to Lake County Water Authority. We reach out to Lake County to DO final design. This is not final design documents. Final design documents
probably $20,000 and then that would be 10 construction >> and we've talked to Rep about possibly asking for state appropriation but then at that point you want to demonstrate the city's got money, the county's got money all the partners have money coming
to the table. >> I have one on traffic that traffic coming. I was I heard DOT talking about that. Did they not do this? How come we have that? >> They I mean the whole DOT19 project was traffic coming on their road but that
that item you see in the budget is for local roads traffic coming on local roads where it's our responsibility. So have we done anything on why >> it was originally 100,000 and so we have spent some of that 100,000 uh but that
78 70 was it 78 [clears throat] that's what's left of the original 100,000 and that is that is reserved for city when city commissioners come and say please take a look at traffic calming on this local
road that's the fund where we pull it out >> do we get that very often It happens periodically. [snorts] Is that the speed bumps and all that stuff? >> Yeah, it could be speed signage. Um the
money was out there actually. >> We've got protocols and we've got polic the average daily traffic% that actually drive speeds
and it's not speed. >> Yeah. I um I we I can't I mean we can't go through all this like this. We'll be here we'll be here for who knows how long. Um >> we got to digest it. I I agree with Emily. Meet with though I hate to make staff meet five times.
>> But I've had it 24 hours, whatever you want to call it. But >> yeah, >> I get what you're saying, Willie. I I would love to check things off and maybe We could check off a couple, but there's there's it's too much money. And and if
I can just if I can just say this, um, man, I I know both you guys work really really really hard at this, but we, you know, we we are going to probably have to really look at really look at budgets if the tax if [snorts]
the property tax eventually goes through and it's going to go through. There's no doubt in my mind it's going to go through. >> You don't think so, Michael? You don't think so? >> I don't think the Senate will take it up. It won't it won't happen this time. >> Eventually you're going to see changes, but I don't think the Senate.
>> Yeah, like I said, and it probably it'll probably be phased over it probably over time. I I I agree with you, >> but we we we really going to have to look at budgets and and and tighten things up. And then, you know, I don't know if they're going to give us a mechanism to replenish from the property
taxes or not. So, if they don't, then we're going to have to do it. And we either going to have to do it from either sales tax or, you know, the commercial commercial development. But we we really have to look make sure we're looking at every every every dime and make sure it's um it's being used
it's being used to to the best of its ability and and if we have rollovers, we we we you know, we should be re reallocating those maybe like George said halfway through the year. If we're not using it, let's use it for something else. No, I think we
agree that we need to do a midyear, >> you know, and >> and als I I still think some of these if they're not being used, they need to show up on the the budget for the next year as an asset, not as an expense, but I'm not an accountant, so um I don't
know how that works. >> U we'll get finance. >> Yeah. >> Or a list of questionable that we could reroute. Doing it mid year will give us a lot more speed and a lot more getting to to where to where we're at.
>> Yeah. >> And and I don't know if you guys I know I know Michael, you're you're you're really connected with the governor, but you know, he this property tax exemption is just his arm of making us more accountable. That's really all it
is. I mean, that's exactly why he that's why the doge is out there. It's he's I mean, he's realized that a lot of counties I mean, not us, but there's quite a few that are over spending, overspending, overspending, and they're [snorts] just using the property tax to
make us a little bit a little bit more accountable. We might as well we might as well go ahead and get on that mindset now that we're probably going to lose some money down the road and then how are we going to how we going to make it up. >> Just watch it. What's going on in Daytona Beach right now? That's not going to end well. [clears throat]
>> I know. I agree. So, um, yeah, I I need more time >> and and I think we we're good with that, >> but you know, if if it's going to take us another, you know, two months to get through this.
>> No, but I think I think >> Well, I would so I would ask that um we get with every commissioner um schedule some time with us because I would like
ready to move forward on January 22nd. >> We have some projects >> delayed >> that are delayed and may end up costing us more money because of the delay. And so if my my ask would be get with us and
let's be ready to and I'm not saying everything has to be approved. I'm saying let's go through the list and if you want items removed or you want items killed, we can do that. But let's be poised to move forward. But how but how do we do that individually? We had to we had to have a consensus that we're to
remove. >> You're going to battle that on January 22nd. >> No, when you go in them and and and you work everything out when you come forth, you're going to know which what it is and we go from there rather than all of us going through this whole thing. But if you go and talk to them and then you
narrow it down to what what it is that you want to be next >> and you may come back and say, "Okay, I understand this. I I I don't want this. This is okay. So is everything that is everything that you need because I know there were some
things that we were concerned about. We want to make sure that we had that taken care of so the prices didn't go. Did we get all that stuff? >> Um I've got a recovery plan. >> We do have I'm sorry Rick. We do have
one item where contractor guaranteed their price for a certain amount of time. >> We do have project where we're going to have to go to the contractor and ask them to guarantee it for another 30 days. If they say no, then >> are they come back and say we're going to try 50,000 more or something like
that? >> I mean, theoretically, they could, but it's a contractor we work with. It's a contractor we have a relationship with. Hopefully, they'll they'll give us another 30 days. I don't know if there I know there's one. >> What which one is it is on the list now?
>> Uh, it is it's the turban, >> right? >> Which one? >> Eastern. Eastern turban. And Um, >> so this is also pretty cool. It's >> water pump. >> Where's that?
>> The most reclaimed water is there's a lot of it in in in Redail, right? >> Yeah. The water goes to the spray field as well. That's I mean if you got to have it, you got to have it. I'm okay with that one. >> Just so we don't we don't get a price
increase. >> It's 240 grand and that 240 grand gets us new pumps. >> Yeah. It was a bid package that was already done. We brought to you we bid it. We started bidding. It's on there. I've got sitting over
there, I believe, back in August. We got the prices in brought it to commission in October and it was approved. We presented the contract [snorts] and it was approved to release it to RCM. We read a PO. The PO can't get executed
because fun last year. [snorts] So, Had we had it ready, had we had the bids back from the contractor by the last week of September, this would have been done. But because it went into fiscal year,
last year's money, the same amount of money, it covers. >> Did we talk about this at the commission meeting? >> This has been going on since 2023. We're three years deep into this budget. >> So that's as we're getting into capital.
I have to try I'm hoping by the end of today I can realize how we're looking at things differently. I have to re review redo my capital program because we would do a job in year one to do the engineering and allow for procurement
year three do contract. So whatever is left over. So I think moving forward I'm not going to do that anymore. I'm going to just do engineering. I'm going have to go for just to the engineer to get that done. That way I'm minimizing any type of roll. In past years, we've done this
over. So that's kind of how we do it. But to me, if my engineering comes in a little bit under, let's put that money towards the construction side. If we don't need it, we don't need it. So, as I go through, I'm going to break it
down. Rather than doing multi-year jobs as best we can, [snorts] I'll split it. We're engineer. Now, some construction that goes in two years, we'll have rollovers because we can't release a virtual purchase order by cash flow. We have to do it by
contract. So if I had a fouryear job, a million dollars each year, year one, I have to account for that $4 million. We're not going to spend it. So again in year one, I'm only 3 million. At the end of year two, I'm only 2 million. And it has to happen so we can cover it.
There's not a mechanism that we can really cash. So that's where a lot of this comes in. And a lot of the other stuff with mine is contingencies. So if I have a contractor and we run a million dollar job, the PO's got rolled
over, but our contingency, we don't get that to the contractor because then they're going to look at but I've got construction contingencies and that's what you know when you look at the the payment assessment there's 69,000 that's if there's out of scope whereas
if we get into engineering I need more. So that's in there and what we can do if that doesn't go over I'll have to get that changed to commission. But by the time we do the staff reports, get that in and approve. Sometimes the ship sailed on us. Sometimes we're delaying.
We put a hold on. I hear you guys wanting us to go quicker. So I put the contingencies. I put this so I can move and and I'm asking your trust in me so I can do that. I've done this for 15 years for y'all now. And I'm trying to move
the projects along and be quick because I I hear the complaints. We're not moving. not moving. So now I'm trying and I kept moving. So that's where I >> I know I've asked a lot. I'm happy with
you. I think we're lucky to have you. I just it's the it's just understanding it, >> you know, and and what you just suggested to break it out and show us gives us that vision, especially as new people come in. So that's that's great.
>> And that's a good thing about meeting >> and that's a midterm too. That's a midterm update. >> The is there any on the eastern chart if we were to do that on the 22nd? Does that >> So I was going to suggest maybe that one
item could go on consent on the 8th. >> But if it doesn't Okay. So we'll keep it on the 22nd. >> Doing it the way you're doing it now is for expedience.
Correct. >> Make it a little bit >> make it a little bit more fluid. >> And we're having one project there, one project accounting, engineering, construction. We [clears throat] actually used to lump it all together and then roll. At least now I'm breaking
out the engineering. So, we're more able to track our tasks, our assignments, our milestones, hitting our milestones. >> Um, you next We're not going to have as many rollovers. Part of me taking the capital program that just happened in
June. I had to do a lot of changes to how we process. That's why we got a ton of work out in August and we got bids back released millions of dollars in bids in September. Unfortunately, the
October. So, we're already moving on this year's jobs. We're already preparing budgets to present in RJ. We're already working on that. It's it's a year to get the budget. >> No. And yeah. No. And you're and and
Rick, you're right. And you know, and we don't need to catch up everything um in here. But I mean, we're we're hearing we're hearing about, you know, this department needs this, this department need this, and sometimes we got to figure out like what's the priority. So like this Harbor Park port pavilion is
that the $300,000 we're talking about that rolled over from >> last 400 >> 400 that rolled over from what we talked about the last meeting or is that in addition to it's under uh CRA
fund uh 950 9505 last Harvard Park basketball courts division $400,000 the uh sorry >> it's on it's on the second page halfway down right next to the CR code
>> yeah that's Park Basketball court pavilion that is the shade structure >> okay basketball court >> so I mean so if we're planning not not to do that and sand need he needs more space that's that's what I'm talking about we need to we need to reallocate
>> and that that is we're talking about I mean that would be a commission decision talking about reallocating >> right but if and I think that's what we're trying to get at if we if we know that that's probably not going to be get done and and Sam doesn't want it then we
and he needs more space I think Sam I'd rather have more space right now >> yeah but I I guess the process is the same whether if that were if that had if we killed that project and put it in reserves >> we we still bring it back to commission and say do you want us to pull it out of
reserves, >> right, >> to spend it on a building expansion, >> right? >> Or >> or >> we it's where it is and we bring it to you and say, "Do you want us to reallocate this to a project exp or a building expansion?" >> And that's in and that's in the CRA,
right? Can Can the building fund help with that as well? >> Build the building department fund. >> No, >> no, the building department fund would be only for their states. >> Okay. strict on that.
>> Didn't we just um do some new ball courts? So is that that's to maintain them or what on the sales tax funds where two is >> that's for that's for additional
conversions. >> Hey, but hey, but didn't you say that the offer on the Bank of America building was going to house fire and building and building was going to help pay for it? >> Yeah. Is it prorated prorated basis? >> Building is going to pay for everything, but then the other uh units would
they would pay the building department rent except >> it's all going to be okay. >> Yeah, it's >> it's accounting, but the building department would pay for the entire purchase and then the building department would pay for a majority of the renovations.
>> So, the building department can't add on to Sam and and Sam paid building has to be standalone. >> Well, it has to be occupied by the building. >> Oh, okay. >> When I when I'm saying building, I'm thinking construction. >> Yeah. No, the building department can't
can't build a recreation facility. >> They can buy a building department facility. >> Take for example Mount Dora. They broke out their building department. They bought the old Clements across the street and the entire building department. and to pay for it off that line.
>> No, no, I totally get. No, I totally get >> which we could do even something like that. >> Exactly. And and that's that's why we really need to go down these and say, are we doing this? Yes or no? If not, we got to >> realign. >> But and and did we did we already do the
targeting energy parent? We just EDA >> uh we haven't made the final payment. >> Oh, okay. It's already something. I need Rick and I our function all really
really intertwined but from a finance perspective with him rolling purchase orders we're committing on that purchase order that we're going to complete that project. So when we put it on purchase order, if it's a fouryear project, we're committing to it and we have those funds
designated instead of budgeting for it each year where there's a chance then somebody doesn't want to budget for it and then become in violation contract project. So those are some of the safety precautions that we build in as part of
the process at the end of the year. to your question, Commissioner, that money, if you don't roll it over, yes, it will absolutely go back into the fund balance. It's not going to become lost money or go away or anything. You could say no to every single one of those.
They would go in the fund balance. Then we would have to come to you for a budget amendment to resurrect those. >> I'd actually be on I'd be happy to do that because then we'd be able to know where where where it's at and where and where and where it's going. This list is is items that have no POS. Correct.
>> Correct. >> Correct. >> For the most part. Yes. >> But they are explain the engineering, but we're not contracting. >> Well, and that's and that's Well, like I said, we can sit here all day, but we don't know all. We don't we don't you
know, we we don't know every every, you know, that this is linked to this. If there was a way, maybe >> we need to look at that six months. >> Yeah. Yeah. Because we could say, "Let's put a roof on the community center for 350 grant, then figure out it's too much, then figure out we don't want to do it at all, then figure out we're
going to knock it down." >> Is I mean, I mean, he's correct. Would a six-month review help uh help help us get through? >> I think a six-month review is a good idea. >> You know, I think and and this is the fourth, fifth time we said. We all agree that that's what we're going to do, you
know, in six months. So, we need to figure how to get this Because if not, we're going to be slow. >> We are moving. We are moving. >> We are. We are moving. And we're dealing about six months. >> What And what he what Rick has talked about breaking it out to make it easier
for us to see and understand gives us an opportunity to adjust if we need to. I mean, if we're going to build something at the park, then, you know, some of those improvements might be relevant right now. >> That's our job.
>> So, I understand and I and and I don't appreciate, >> you know, making it seem like we aren't all here to do the best thing for the city. We are
>> Don't say that. I don't understand about $16. >> So, what do you need from us right now? >> What? No, I >> I know. I am talking. What I am saying is we are all on the same page.
>> We need to figure out how to get there. But we need to figure out how to get there without slowing our people down. >> So what's that look like to you then? Well, I think one we sit down, we get it done
and we get it done sooner than later >> before the 22nd. >> Okay. >> Because if not, we are going to be playing with this forever. >> Nobody said we might. >> Well, yeah, we can do that. >> We will. Uh, but we'll need to do it
before the 22nd because that's >> right. I'm I'm probably going to be the hardest one to track down, but I'll I'll get to you as soon as I can. >> The general fund is the only fund that can be used for any general expense. The
other funds building can only be spent on building fun. sales tax can only be spent on infrastructure which is why we had that budget amendment for the software because it's determined that that's not infrastructure so we have to move we can't arbitrarily and you can't
either move those funds from one fund to another because they're restricted by statute >> I I understand that I just don't understand why some of the some of the funds have so large reserves so that's why I >> well I think he explains some of that because he's looking for two, three
years down the line. >> That makes sense. >> And then if I would have saw two, three years down the line, that's what it's for. The layman gets that, >> you know, maybe Michael sleeps and he knows that. But we >> Yeah, we we don't. But I hope I will if
I'm here 12 years, which I guarantee I won't, but that's >> okay. That's our job. >> Rick, do you need You have everything you need. Yeah, I question 300.
It's pretty simple. >> Okay. So, we're in agreement that the commissioners will meet with everybody, come back and have more clear >> and we're all committed to do it before the 22nd. >> If we have any discrepancy, we'll settle it then. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> If we have any differences, we'll vote
on it and move on. >> Yeah. Can uh and and if if we have some come to the commission meeting prepared to discuss as opposed to coming and you
know me waiting for George to bring it up and you know that way we all know if George has the same issue that I am okay you saying >> sir you were saying so yeah there's one
other thing I want to talk I I'll call it the elephant in the room, >> but it's it's it's a reality. Can we talk about what we heard from our city manager because we're not meeting again till the 8th. Can we have a little short
discussion of how we're going to move forward and is there anything we need to get going now before we just that month is beyond crucial. And so, um, I've never been through that
process. I've watched it, uh, when he came in. But do we need to direct, uh, staff or our attorney, whoever, whatever, to go ahead and prepare, uh, if so, the majority of the commission
wants an RFP for a city manager, uh, we need to give them that now. I think we make them happier than January 8th and burn that time. We got to take advantage of we have of him. >> Okay. So Karen, you probably thought about that.
>> Are you guys open to want to hear about >> We got to jump on this. >> You want you want to talk from your So I have thought about it and I do think that you know you're considering going outside.
I can have Tracy start on that process to get you know some consultants to on it process. I've been through it twice. So,
>> so a consultant to help us locate, identify and then >> Yes. Yes. And a lot of time whether you want to do it like across the country, we've done that before and a lot of times they will vet these people before they
present their uss. What's the fee when they locate someone? >> It would take us day to hire, >> right? And it's been a while since we have to look at >> we don't pay X amount of salary or bring somebody or anything like that.
Yeah, it's sometimes it's structured. >> I was going to ask how we're going to pay for I guess we have a reserve. Number two, we probably need to as commissioners agree as to what we're looking for, what we want. >> Yeah. I I'm sorry. I uh
going through what we're going through and and I'm going to be honest, you know, I think that we're losing good really good city managers. Uh and I know
without talking to any other [snorts] all the department heads think the same thing and they would follow. I think we need to move. Uh, I think we need to
try and and write this keep this ship moving as close to the same direction as possible as we can. And I think that, you know, for the interim, we we need to
to try and find someone uh in house uh to kind of release. >> Uh Tom, how much time did you tell me? Is it 90 days or departure? >> 90 days. Uh >> yes, specifically >> March March 20th
>> and I have talked to and and of course this is a commission decision. Uh but I I spent time with with Tom and I think that we need someone we need
some continuity, you know, and I think we need to look at someone in house to to and I personally think that with Miranda, you know, number two
and and she's agreed to it that that we get the chief to be number one. >> I um He could do the intim. He He could do the intim. Uh and I don't
think that would >> run. >> Uh we have to get some and he's got capable people there. >> So he still has to be in order to stay in that >> we all know.
>> Yeah. you said to >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That would have to be a decision that But I think I think that would be a good I
think he Miranda I think would be a great team. >> Can I say something? >> Uh please. >> This this is this is our time. So, please. >> So, first I want to just say to Tom, so I'm so sorry that you're home. I think
you're a great city manager. City of business is really a great person and a great city manager. Um, I am really happy in my role. I think it fits my skill set the best. I have a lot I want to accomplish in Eustace. Um, I really want to be here. I am not interested in
the role full time, but I am looking forward to supporting whomever commission. Um I think commission support of this person is very important. Full commission support if possible. And so whoever that is to support them >> and and I don't expect us to make a
decision today, but I just think that that would be a good move for one it shows some stability. >> Have you he spoke with the chief? Does he feel like he could do that?
So she Oh, sorry. Okay. Yeah. I I I think it shows stability. what we need right now is to do. >> So I think the question is how will that affect him personally as far as
>> I think that will be a decision that he >> look We're losing our start for back here. I'm telling you right now, we got a great department here. Things are moving really good. I hate to see it though. By the same token, I'm telling you, I've a long
time. Bring the wrong city management. I'm telling you right now, I've seen it. I've seen I've actually lived come in, destroy a city, leave in the middle of the night, and get a job somewhere else. We got the key pieces here.
>> But in all fairness, Tom's my fifth city manager. That's never happened. >> I'm sorry. >> Tom is my fifth city manager since I've been here. That's never happened. >> Okay. Okay. >> Just saying. >> I'm saying Tom is my fifth city manager
and no city manager has ever come into us and you know fire people. That's never happened. >> I don't think he said >> or replace people, >> destroy. I didn't say Because yesterday you said >> I said >> yesterday you said
>> no I've seen him come in >> well in my world in the real world that I live in that I see I've seen city managers come and replace department. Yes I have. >> I've seen it in other cities. >> They've come in and said we're going a different direction. I've I'm telling you I I've I've been there. I've been a deputy city manager in the city of
Daytona Beach. I had over a thousand employees. Trust me I know what I'm doing. I'm just saying I'm just saying come you sitting there come in and hurt the employees but he could he could do some damage to this city >> and then what you're going to pay him out you're going to write a big check and you're going to drag him off for a
year and a half get it right >> well they did that in Mount Dor she came in and she destroyed one of the things that that that I think that would be good is is and I've mentioned this is department heads
report to Miranda and and Miranda and chief working. >> I'm doing what I can to help the city. Love the city. It's a great city. You do what you want. I'm just telling >> and and chief, I appreciate it. At at the end of the day, right now, we just got this yesterday. >> Okay.
>> We've got 90 days. Now, I don't want to take the 90 days, but I think we all need to digest what we heard yesterday. We need to be able to talk about this in our uh planning session on the 8th. Is it January 8th?
>> And and then let's start let's start thinking we've got a couple weeks. Um I don't want to make knee-jerk reactions today. We >> and that's what >> and I know we've got capable people and I know I knew hiring Chief Capri as police chief. He has the background as a
deputy city or stepping in and running the city. >> I just >> No, I I'm so I think we just need to start thinking about our options, what's out there, and how we can best move us forward and keep stability. And that's
the key is stability until we find the right person. And I don't want this commission or any commission to ever jump into doing something real quick because there's too much in front of We're in a a a time period that we need to make sure we're doing the right thing
not not just for our employees but for our citizens as well. >> Okay. >> This will be in March when uh so we get busy doing things. How long will that >> process
eight months? >> Six months. How long has it taken it like to get that phone up? >> I would say about six months because the consultant the consultant's going to want to meet with you and find out your
priorities and then a a marketing uh piece will have to be put together and then you'll issue it and it'll go to the various you know websites or agencies and then there will be multiple level. So I would say six months is realistic.
>> I'm going to be realistic with everybody too. Six months to a year. Yeah. >> To find the right person to sit in the seat. And I'm just being out. >> You got to get the right fit. >> Absolutely. >> Take your time. Get the wrong fit. I'll tell you what's going to happen. I've seen it. >> I don't know what you might have heard. I've actually seen it. I seen the city
manager come bankrupt the city and leave the middle. Absolutely. I've seen it. >> Well, we've done it three times at the college and the one time that we rushed, we got a very bad deal. So, it does take a while. We need to be patient and work through it. >> I I will tell you the uh when So Diane
Kramer served as acting for for a while, but when the decision was made, a firm was hired and um the commission at the time decided not to move forward with the candidates that the firm presented the first time. And so uh when Ron was
hired, he was actually the second effort by that consultant. And so that would happen extended time. Okay. >> So, we got four things we're talking about here. In guy, permanent guy. >> So, we got to keep them
separated and thinking, and I guess there's always a possibility the in guy became the permanent guy, but I personally, and I don't mind telling you guys because I can't talk to you for it'll be a long time before we talk again. I think we need to turn every rock over and see where we're at on the
permanent basis. Intram, that's another conversation. But on the permanent basis, I think we need to run right now. I think I say I I would say my one vote 20% would be please go do what you know
that you need to do. Bring get up that get that going and if we end up deciding to stop and we lost 10 grand that's peanuts compared to what we would lose if we don't have a city manager in place. Get us going to um walk at the same time. get us some
it advertised out bring us the best guy we can get. You know, I've had a little bit of success in the private sector and I tell you what one of my philosophies are and I'm sorry if it sounds pay for but find the best and I can be
the best you can find. We got a great town and man is pretty exciting >> I can say. Yeah, we finally got all all on the same all on the same level and we want to keep that going. department. >> Okay. >> So, what I'm saying
is I would vote to direct the staff to start engaging with the consult whatever those process are. Don't stop. Do that. Get us through it. if we got to have a freaking emergency meeting in between, which I don't think we need to to get
maybe for an interim, but we don't need that till March. We don't need to do that. But please, I can't think of any reason why we can't get these ladies to do or men who are in the department to do their thing and start putting out the sign
>> with the now hiring sign out is what I'm asking my fellow commissioners to to let them do when we leave here. Next time we see January 8th. >> I don't really think we have time for an emergency meeting before and I don't know what we're going to accomplish that we can't do with this one thing I'm
asking begging you guys to do. Let them loose. Let them go. >> I agree. Are you in agreement with that? You sit on the other side of the table. I just well I just want to point out this is a workshop so you can't take official action but you can give us consensus >> but technically can you take official
action as a city manager to direct someone to >> if you if you give staff what you want to do we can start that process. >> So I'm giving you one >> but we need to let her know what we want. >> Well you'll you'll let the consultant know. >> Yeah. Yeah. Now, at this point, I think
at this point, what you would be asking us to do is start the process to secure consult. >> Yes. >> Sure. And we all know what we want. We're in the midst of we're in the midst of a revitalization of a downtown. We're in the midst of some somewhat massive
growth. We're in the midst of reviewing our our building requirements, all of those. We know what we want. They know that for every meeting. I don't want to come back January the 8th and say we started today. No, I want to start I want them to have our blessings. I want
to give them free reign to run under Tom >> to to do that. >> You need a commission for that. >> I want to make sure that when we if that's what we're doing, we don't change change it in the middle of the event. So, so you know, because you're saying
they know what we want. >> No. [clears throat] First step and then January and next January 22nd >> is it too soon to have by January 8th >> at least.
>> Does an attorney review that? Does that have to go through? So you write that. I would like to ask that you write it and send a draft to all of us. I don't know if you guys want to see it. I personally would like to see a draft of it. Is it generic in nature? >> Who's done? Have you done one?
>> Tracy's done. >> Okay. >> Well, do a draft because you know what? If we all get it, we're gonna all start picking up. >> Just do it. >> Typically, do we typically look at RFPs for for manager because that's only
attorney. >> I mean you you did for the um I mean for uh the property stuff for the community center you did ask to see that. >> I would say typically no. >> Uh but it's I mean if we're going out for engineering services or construction
services you generally don't need to see those. Um you tell me you tell me what you want. >> Just get her done by eight. Do you want a guy with under five years, under one year, over 10 years, things like that? >> You know, do do you want
>> for consultant >> for the consultant? Right. So that's >> we need to instruct staff to go ahead and work on hiring a consultant. Let the consultant talk to us and find out what we want. >> That's where we are. >> Yeah. I don't want to slow it down with
us trying to do >> I vote today to go ahead and move ahead with a consultant >> or really we getens command but the consensus to direct our city manager in his own authority it's under 100 grand to do that that's what I'm asking
>> we um you're you're directing us to issue a solicitation Um, and we can start that process. Now, I I don't I don't think we're going so far as to I mean, we're not going to start paying that consultant. >> That's right.
>> Until we we kind of have that process. >> I think it's right to tell them by the age. Is that right? >> No, they said they could do it. >> Okay. Just I want to go home tonight and sleep and say we have home. [laughter]
>> Sorry. I am sorry. That is completely out on I said, "We can talk if you stop talking." [laughter] I'm sorry. >> We've already We've already agreed. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I know this, but we've already >> So, that's all I'm asking. Let's just
move forward. >> Okay. Is a consultant really necessary? >> Mayor, I move a >> Tom. No, sir. Thank you. >> Okay. No, thank you. >> Okay. All right. Ajourn.