##VIDEO ID:2fwlWx9A2ls## all right let's let's call this meeting to order at 7:12 p.m we're going to start with salute to the plan I pledge allegiance to the please join me in a moment of Silent reflection thank you sunshine law notice in accordance with the provisions of the open public meetings ACT public meetings may be held in person or by means of communication with equipment to include streaming services and other online meeting platforms this meeting is being held in person and through the zoom meeting platform being broadcast from bur Hall 748 River Road Fair Haven New Jersey public participation for this regular council meeting of October 28th 2024 is available by call and phone number or through Web Conference Zoom members of the public will be on mute until it is time for questions or comments which will be announced at that time the public has the opportunity to question or comment by phone or through Zoom by the raised hand button and will be called on at the appropriate time notice of this meeting was included a schedule of meetings which was adopted by resolution number 20243 sent to the Asbury Park Press in the Two River times on January 4th 2024 post on the burough website the Bolton board and municipal building and has remained continuously posted as required under the statute with adequate notice having been given the bur clerk is directed to please include the statement minutes of this meeting Alison may I please have a roll call Council memb po here here Oe here hereon have admin York CFO Britain Chief mover and CH okay starting off with a proclamation now I got a text message actually from our Pro attorney Nota from Andrew soel on the morning of on the late morning of September 14 2024 it was a very pixelated video of a tree falling on a Dugout basic basically of of our baseball players our diamonds that are here it is probably the scariest video I've ever seen until I got the non pixelated version of the same video and then it became even scarier um as The Story Goes and I think you may have heard this I you know it was at least one young man that was hurt in the incident and I ran to this kid's house to make sure that he was already tra is that is that accurate okay all right now I did leave out that tra lives right behind okay it wasn't a long run but um you know the heroism that was shown that day and I'm I'm before I get into this group right here I'm going to give a shout out as well to the Middletown hammers um their coaches the Umpire every everyone ran into that Dugout immediately um and and it just the show uh it reminds me of that Mr Rogers saying I always say that when something bad happens you see who runs into the danger and the firefighters the clevand the co- kids the umpires um our our our young athletes in Town The Bravery that you all CH as something that's going to stay with you your entire life so we have this Proclamation recognizing the heroism and bravery displayed on September 14th 2024 and it reads as follows and then going have all of our who coached please come up um it reads whereas on September 14th 2024 ban baseball 11U diamonds team were playing a game against the Middletown hamers whereas during the game a large tree from a neighboring property fell across the fence onto the Fair Haven diamonds Dugout and whereas the umpires coaches players and parents from both teams acted quickly and heroically to bring those near the impacted site to a safe area and whereas the selfless and quick action of those in in attendance helped to mitigate this dangerous situation and whereas the B of Fair Haven wishes to recognize and thank the 11U diamonds coaches Keith coners Chris Silva John Schultz Kevin Bell GT Sweeny and Dave poolo the players Cooper Connors Cory Silva David Lang Dean poola Dean Sweeny Henry DWI Henry Wagner Jack Henry Schultz Acy Bell Ryan wette Patriots Trad shahim and their parents and whereas the burough would like to recognize and thank officer Sean Langan and Fagan's First Responders who answered the call for assistance and administered birth a to those in need now therefore be it proclaimed that the governing body of the bur of Fair Haven is grateful and wishes to thank all who were involved for their bravery and heroism while facing an unforeseen emergency without hesitation start and call the coaches up one by one for over here Keith Connors schz up here yeah deie doesn't get B GT okay now the players Cooper Conor Cory Sila we got DAV Lang sweee Henry D Henry Wagner Jack FS rette rder Roo one more question you guys win the game diamonds wait good job oh think con all right uh moving along uh Workshop session Burl Hall rain Garden restoration proposal from terraa uh do you want to speak to this I believe she's on Zoom is that she on yes okay so just give you an idea Alexis trilo of Terra Castle Landscaping um she's not a vendor of the burough Fair Haven um had come in the other day and does a bunch of properties here in town and mentioned that um she could do some improvements to our demonstration rain Garden uh that is located here at forl Hall um she asked for a meeting I had a meeting with with her the other day and she uh wants to make a proposal to do a full uh volunteer free restoration uh to our demonstration rain Garden at bur Hall um again no charge to the burrow uh she would um pay for all labor and any materials associated with it so we can improve the condition of it and I believe she is on she could talk a little bit more about it hello hi hi everyone I'm well thank you for asking and thank you for having me tonight um so uh just plain and simple I saw your rain garden over there and um thought that it would be an excellent place for us to give back to the community um yeah I understand that it it needs a little bit of TLC and some cleanup um and it's the perfect time of year to go ahead and take care of that um Tracy and I recently had had a conversation where I said hey how can I be of help and she mentioned um that that little rain Garden that you have over there and so I'd like to offer my services to the community okay uh thank first of all thank you Alexis um and thank you for being here as well um so I I mean I love three things so that's great uh but I I guess my question is you you're not currently a vendor of the bur of Fair Haven no I am not are you are you looking to become a vendor of the burough Fair Haven in the future no I not so you so I mean this in the most non confrontational way ever why do you want to do this just because you want to um you know bring it back to life so um Terra Casas has a philanthropic component to our company um from the onset I've always wanted to make sure that uh Green Space and the protection of Green Space is something that was part of our philosophy we've done work in Newark we've done work in Essex County um we've done work in middl toown um we've done work with Habitat for Humanity where we um donated our services uh early this year actually in January um to one of the Habitat homes to rebuild uh actually not to rebuild excuse me to install a landscape um and what happens this time of year is you know we do a lot of cleanup work um um we wind up having some extra plant material um and instead of just you know disposing of that or you know having to uh you know create more space for it why not give it to a community or someone that needs it um and you guys are essentially down the block um you may know some of our work we work on the Grove in Shrewsberry um we have projects in Red Bank uh such as Westside lofs in the Anderson building uh so really it's you know also a convenient place for us to be able to spend some time and really it's not a big undertaking um it's a a small little um it's not exactly a square it's not exactly a circle um but it's a small little piece of land where you know a couple of hours with the guys just uh taking up some of that excess mulch that's in there um pruning down that beach tree a little bit so that the restaurant behind it has some uh visibility and taking some of the plant material that we already have and popping it in there um really is is of no big you know again no big undertaking for us so you know we're happy to do it um if you would like us to um you know just say the word uh my only other question for you Alexis is I see the um proposed pass you're not proposing any signage signage in what way in other words you not uh signed saying that the rain Garden was renovated by terraa or anything like that not at all okay all right I'm I'm good thank you for answering my questions thank you for the offer to to do the rainard I would be in favor I don't know if anyone else has any questions thank you thank yeah so does anyone have a motion to accept the restoration proposal from Teran C motion second all in favor hi anyone opposed thank you so much thank you thank you thank you thank you contact with you thank you sounds good have a great evening thank you you too all right we are at the public comment on agenda items only portion of our meeting please try to observe a three minute time limit uh please stand identify Yourself by clearly staying your name and address to the record is there anyone in the public with a public comment on agenda items sure um fine for city that um the tree that's can I ask a question about that yes it's on the internet yes so I'm just not clear what is happened what changes were made I saw the attachments I tried I couldn't identify what track changes I I don't I just was curious if you could summarize maybe that's a legal question but they were very di minimist changes it it just made minor clarifications there was maybe five words added so it it really did not change the substance of anything that from what was introduced there was a definition addition that we left out was yeah it was very minor certified inserted and then struck in certain places where to say didn't change so this was because you red it it was it was actually based on a conversation I had with Mr Perkins before the last meeting where there were things that had the intent but they maybe weren't clarified based on a single word that needed to be maybe it's two words three words but it didn't change the meaning of the ordinance itself as it was presented okay well I was happy to see that as we said it's an open document and we can you know continue to change and improve it and I hope to see it back on the agenda in the future improve so Bonnie I'll I'll say what I said the last at the end of the last meeting if and when this um ordinance does asked I'm going to ask uh B administrator York to send a memo to the shade tree commission and ask them to immediately start looking at um you know protection potential protections for Heritage specimen trees as as we discussed it wasn't a hollow uh discussion we said we put a pin on and we meant so thank you anyone else yes Perkins don't per s for fa Haven so I just have a question as to why we have noted one two 3 four five shrubs as potential Replacements in our tree for example you let go to D so I don't know why we would be wanting to replace 33in caliper tree with four d d are not trees and five two and half so I don't know why they on this list so is that on if that's on the list that we that was that's referenced to the Google Document from the but it's also specifically spelled out in in the ordinance so I don't think we should be listing shrubs and and uh I think that's a dimin dimin change I I think should happen before it's well we did the change that the most upto-date list of replacement trees that are recommended by the sh commission which is where this list came from are found on the Google Website that's referen pendix a so that should be the website reference for the reference of an hour ago it's on your website no it's been shrs so you're saying sh upd so I would on it's been on the shade tree recommendation should be off so I I would actually um as part of what I just said about bur Min yorking get back to them I think that that's also part of the discussion it doesn't have to be just those specific things there could be other discussions involved as well like I know that a lot of people had some concern with the number of trees that uh created a large scale tree removal so again if it goes back to shade tree I would encourage any Resident that feels strongly about this ordinance to go to a shade tree Commission meeting as well because they're going to we're going to task them with discussing this again and that's really where you can make the the biggest impact and in those discussions as they develop new recommendations for the council that's well and good and I will go to their next meeting to suggest that this be removed but this ordinance will pass and be effective today or tomorrow so tomorrow somebody could cut down to in C 33in Cal tree and plant four roaded entrance that's in our haste to get this done if we're not going to address this I I'm just baffled thank you thank you Bill yes sure so um B I think a lot of these trees were something that I put together with Mar about native plants in the town I don't know that it was ever meant to be used as a replacement sure it was recommended if you were want to plant tree in town so I think that building is a very valid point and I would hope that you could maybe make this can you make this di Minimus change tonight before this has passed to prevent what those worried about will happen is it possible well I don't I don't think let me correct me if I'm wrong I don't think it this refers to a list that will con consistently be updated so my recommendation would be that the shade tree commission compile a list specific for replacement trees pursuant into this ordinance that would take the place of that link can you take out the shrubs now so it's that's not well it's not our list to do here I think is the concern right but this list is just what is reflected on that website so if that website which has the most up to change that website to have Tre they carry that with shade tree commission we do not right now for the up they can change the list can I just say that this was never part of a shade tree commission meeting approving that list that was never part of our meeting we never read through that I I think I actually recall at the last meeting Brian saying that they're just um recommendations I don't think that the list itself I don't think I don't think we can um hold our residents to you have to pick from these 20 trees that's not what you're saying sure they are as recommendations the point is this list is printed it doesn't should say refer to this list says for the most up to date but we are posting in the ordinance this list of plant matur so we are but we're also referencing the link which can be changed right so if we change the link therefore we're Chang subsequent to today's approval so until that happens and the next meeting by the sh Tre is not until the 7th of November so between now and the 7th of November it's the same we can make a the hug that someone's going to run out to just replace those shrubs to replace the tree no but it's it's a valid I mean I think we're I think we're really we could just make a motion now to amend the ordinance to strike the shy as a suitable alternative ver I think com right again I think I think we're wasting time here on a on something talk about wasting time but right dealing with it a month from now or two months from now right I mean I'm not sure how we're wasting time if we deal with it now or we spend two other meetings dealing with it well part part of part of it is I don't have the expertise on the shrubs you're talking about versus the trees and the other things on the list the shade tree commission does so that's why we leaned on them that's where why they recommended this ordinance to us so for me to make a change now based on a public comment when we can when we can pass it I just think anyone on the day it's there can Google understand that I'm list know that they're in so as a member of the sh Tre Commission we did not ever intend for shrubs to be a qualify as a replacement tree so I don't even we didn't discuss this it wasn't I don't know who picked that up and put it as part of the ordinance I don't know if it was IL legal I don't know who did that but we never approved that so if it would be possible for you to tonight say a small that this should not include shugs there's no motion right now midle public comment I comment and then any motions from the floor can be addressed as we this is listed for hearing and adoption you want to make motions then make this is so public comment not for debate I would I would appreciate that was because that was never the intention I'm as a commissioner that the show be ined and we never so is there any anyone else with a public comment on agenda items only Alison no one has had hand okay uh moving along to approval of minutes October 15 2024 regular meeting do I have a motion to approve motion I have a second second Alison might please have a roll call Paul yes yes yes yes uh October 15 2024 executive session do I have a motion to approve motion second Allison may I please have a roll call call yes yes yes yes thank you uh old business hearing and adoption 20246 Bond reappropriation ordinance for fist Chapel parking lot improvements I have a motion to open motion open second all in favor anyone opposed is there anyone up here that has any public comment on 202 24-16 is there anyone in the public that has a public comment on 2024 - suceed Allison anyone on on Zoom yes I a motion to close motion second all in favor I anyone opposed thank you do I have a motion to approve as presented motion I have a second second Alison may I please have a roll call yes Dina selling yes yes yes thank you moving on to 20247 uh mayor may I interupt for a moment yes I would like to make a motion that we table this uh tree preservation ordinance until our November 12th meeting when councilman Brian Olen is here and perhaps it will give us some time to review the shevy okay you have a second second I can't uh Alison may I please have a roll call Council memb Paul yes C yes Cody yes Co yes thank you moving along well I have an additional um because procedure being what it is at this time um I'd like to make a statement pertaining to the tree ordinates and the draft that we have before us if that's acceptable I I would say wait for good to the burrow at this point we are in the public hearing you mean we already we've already t thein for the next is my opportunity to speak to the attorney so I'm going to take it counc mle Council mle during good the bur you're welcome to askd trainy wherever you want we had a we had a motion it got seconded we had a roll call we've moved this to the next meeting and now we're going to move along with the agenda thank you can I ask a technical question then sure so if we since it's tabled and there's a chance to make changes then this would this be the time time to talk about it so procedurally the motion the ordinance has been tabled so it would be during the good of the bur I have no problem answering any Council person's questions at that time okay um and it would only be di Minimus changes because we've just tabled the second reading thank you moving along new business 20248 established bur code 2-28 creating a fair first aid Squad Cadet program does anyone have anything on this anyone have a motion motion motion second Alison I please have a roll call Paul yes yes yes yes uh thank you uh moving along the consent agenda we're only talking about 2024-25 through 2024 d251 anyone want to separate anything on here there's an addition in front of you to a member yes yes candy that's for two 2024-25 adding candy FAL okay anyone have anything on this anyone to have a motion motion second Alon please have a roll call Pa yes yes yes yes thank you we are now at the good of the burrow portion of the meeting would you like to start call please I'll come back to M um we're aware that what's being proposed amends the property maintenance section of code we also have Trees and Landscaping refer to in other sections of the code in particular the land section have you had an opportunity to look for conflicts within the total code as it pertains to this one I have reviewed the code this proposed ordinance it does rectify appropriately there's no overlaps in terms of the provisions they both do address trees however the one uh the tree references and the zoning are more of an aesthetic issue rather than this which is go replacement and preservation focused so I have reviewed the code I don't find any conflicts so the conflict that I see and the reason I wanted your opinion is because our that section of the code ularly the design standards is what provides the authority to our planning board zoning board our B professionals to require plantings trees and shrubbery for important components inside Plan reviews such as buffer plantings between residences or buffer plantings between commercial and residential um same thing with Street trees which is also in the board requirement or through our professionals my concern is that there's no protection language in here really for any tree which it sounds like there's going to be discussion about that I don't know why we have to it doesn't matter but anyway I would like to suggest that we consider adding language that would not conflict with the board's ability to require proper landscape buffers um the last thing I want to do is have an application process that basically results in you know perhaps an unhappy commercial property owner who says well I'll put it in the ground now and it might even be there two years from now that I'm just going to take it out or why don't I pay you now for a Fair Haven and just skip putting in the buffer Al together it's a probably a wash given the expense of multiple trees for a buffer these are the kinds of things I I I am concerned about it's not just that there's no protection it's that it could possibly interfere with the other parts of government well so if there's a zoning requirement where there has to be trees planted or trees taken out this ordinance would then also kick in where the resident has to abide by this ordinance in terms of removal and replacement um so it's not overriding the zoning board or any of their approvals or recommendations um that being said there is a second part to your question which is the well the applicant before a planning board could receive approval conion upon a landscape buffer or a set of trees for stabilizing a slope or a street tree that same applicant based on the way this is written can apply to have them remove there are there's no criteria to satisfy any approvals and there's no denial mechanism I agree I well there's not I mean as long as the applicant abides by the requirements of the tree preservation ordinance that is now tabled for second reading then they would be able to remove those trees contingent upon replacing it with either the replacement trees or paying the fee whichever they deem appropriate also it really depends on what kind of tree removal is being sought right so it depends on whether it's a hazardous tree or whether it's a tree that requires replacement pursu to the ordinance so I mean it it depends in in a situation like that it would depend but the tree preservation ordinance would work in conjunction with whatever zoning approval they get this is not a tree preservation ordinance this is an application process for tree removal and replacement respect you can categorize it you that's a very subjective view spell out in their approval what they need to do of course yeah but so that's the issue she's having though is that if it spells out that they have to have a buffer this would say no actually you don't have to have a buffer you can just pay in and not have a buffer without any consideration for erosion for um storm water there's no consideration of how it will affect the property the current property or the properties around them well that would be how the zoning would approve it right but wouldn't this trumpet though because it doesn't matter what zoning says they can just come back and say no but I'm a I I just want all these trees removed and you you have an ordinance now that says that I I do so I don't see how those working the junction right so the person that's applying to the zoning Board in this in this uh in this imaginary in terms of the of it's they're going to pay $1.5 million $2 million for the house and they're going to move in and they're not going to want to put up any privacy trubs because my I I had a neighbor come in and that's exactly what they did they didn't privacy shrubs and in the new ordinance Not only would they would the person coming in have to pay to put the Privacy shrubs up themselves but if what you said is true and they wanted to um the Builder didn't want to put them in themselves they'd have to donate money into our shade tree fund so we'd have the benefit of getting the money for the shade tree fund and the neighbor would end up with their privacy shrubs why would they for the Privacy shs why wouldn't someone that's going to move into faan and spend that much money on their house want to put up Landscaping assumption these things are a function but you're making the Assumption also hold on so there's no assuming here we know how the application proess goes we have our engineer hero we want clarification around it we also know there's a resolution compliance that goes through step that goes through a list of obligations that the applicant must follow we know that buffers are part of that we know we're going to learn from this in the first two or three months after the ordinance has passed and then when it goes back to sha Tre they can take that information that helps to inform them to further strengthen the ordinance instead of sitting here and trying to get this magic Elixir that we're going to have a perfect ordinance out of the gate this is the legislative body the shap commission does not right I don't need I don't need there is no attorney I don't need education on the government process every time we come in here it's the full straight meeting do you want to have the attorney present at everying with them the entire time no yes Brian is not the municipal attorney has been working ran works with the shade tree Commission on the on the ideas of the ordinance on on the definitions of the ordinance on the intent of the ordinance and then they bring it to the attorney and the attorney helps to write the ordinance so that it's legally viable and acceptable sitting here for the Fourth Street meeting trying to drill holes in this thing not well because we haven't had the thorough Workshop that we asked for and that multiple people in it's the fourth right now we're last committe for a reason not true we got theal of the shade Tre committee we got the approval of the environmental commission but you're saying the approval of the shet Tre committee when Bonnie just stood up here and said no because hold on Bon Bonnie is not the singular representative the sh I didn't say he was but the entire shade tree commission sent a memo that represented them did the whole shade tree commission know that that memo was sent well more you want me to know the Comm secretary directed send that to the governing Bo more importantly I I just I just want to get this out if I could it's not there jurisdiction to craft legislation it is ours and as hard as it is to do that burden is on us and it's why we have an attorney president at meeting and it is why they have AER the plal cost of preparing legislation it is a complex process I would never anticipate a commission with that is not staffed with the municipality with staff with an attorney to prepare legislation even the intent of the legislation is supposed to come from this body so youer the process from last year where you sat with the attorney personally for 12 hours drafting the legislation on your own I on one second to to the other to the other process which is councilman Olen bringing you you can sound surprised all you want that is not true there was a to the other process speaking now get out what you wanted to say to as opposed to the other process which is Brian going to the shade tree commission and and going through multiple meetings getting the approval of the entire shade tree commission getting the approval of the environmental commission and getting all of them on board on an ordinance that they all supported to the point where they send us a memo so and you're sitting here saying that the legal representation needs to be there the entire time one process is much more inclusive of our residents and the people people that represent the the residents of Fair Haven than the other one I insist on correcting the record I was appointed to a committee after I was assigned the L on job for the shade tree commission at that committee present were members of the shade tree commission representatives from our land use boards the chairman of the shade Tre commission and two Council people and at every meeting the attorney period they worked for about 18 months brought it here I was commission there was not an attorney that wasn't you weren't there this was before you 22 yes it it's not I would like to say something that is exactly how it worked I was there if if attorney F was here he would Canon was the attorney I understand that that's his partner he would correct the record if he was here I unacceptable okay I you're saying that the shade Tre and the environmental commission approved this ordinance I was or said their support for it I sat in an environmental commission after the before the ordinance was actually put into an ordinance form and they said I thought a member of the intervir said I thought we were going to see this again before it went for adoption or went for introduction this was not as a sitting ordinance as an actually written ordinance we never workshopped it we did we didn't as an actual written ordinance we never workshopped it also the environmental Commission never sat down with it actually as a written ordinance and made their recommendation so for you to say that we did this over and over again we didn't and I would like to just voice the concerns that I do have for this ordinance just so it is on record the issues that I have with this are that this I'm concerned that this gives Builders the right or ability to overcut and clearcut this is a lack of protection for Heritage trees and specimen trees and we know that going in all of this we know going in yet we're just pushing it through when we could have had at least one more Workshop to discuss it further I understand there was lots of conversations with Brian and everyone but that is a single council person that then wrote this it is it's a single council person and there was lots of back and forth without the discussion of the entire Council together the effects of St water management and soil rent are major concerns for me having lived through it on my own property and you can say there are lots of things that went into play but this was a piece of that whole puzzle also the Aesthetics for neighboring properties and also like the um any kind of I for what you call what did you just call it the um the landscape buffer yeah landscape buffer the um effects on decrease shading shade covering throughout the town and I understand the money goes into a shade tree fund but that doesn't we could put those trees somewhere else but they're's still going to be gaping holes now in certain areas where people choose to clut the effect of the overall look and feel of Fair Haven this will change if people can cut down the street trees on Brierwood not okay um the survival rate of the newly planted smaller trees and lack of oversight of their survival and there's also nothing that says after two years we can't just take it down because those trees don't qualify for this 2.5 caliber also the last thing is just a solid plan for enforcement of all all the new things that are going up so I have major concerns with the way that this is written and not thank you councilman delli is there anyone else with a good of the bur coming yes just a request I was looking over the EMS debt program and I saw that it states is for the burough of gravity beach in it so you haven't had good so it might be just one timeo but that makes me worri there might be other things if it was a cotton paste and I I know you were reviewing it with Kirsten who did such a great job at the last Fe so I would just request before you vot in it the next meeting that goes through thank you k 26 yes fin so I just attended the shade tree Federation conference last week which is what oversees all the shade commissions everywhere in the state they specifically had a session on the tree ordinance what they said it was the Federation was that this ordinance that there it was mainly what Brian Olson brought to Shader as the sample ordinance was a Bare Bones document purely for towns that had no tree ordinance yet because they had to conf storm water requirements the goal was to have this document if they chose to use it have their Municipal attorney review it with their licensed tree expert and then have input from the shade tree Commissioners and it was you know so it would be you know appropriate for the town that was drawing up but they said specifically shade Tre Commissioners are not supposed to be writing legislation they said this this is not your job you are volunteers so I just say I mean I know we've been referred to as the experts we are not the experts I mean I thought that we were going to have an attorney there you know we never got to see you know discuss it with an attorney um and Ryan kept saying well this was reviewed by an attorney before well yes but not our attorney and so it really had nothing to do with Fair Haven so I just need to say that that that was what was told to us at the we we understand that you don't like the ordinance and based on we listen we're in the fourth straight meeting we understand it and and usually what's going on is when you don't like the ordinance you attack the process that's what's going on here no you're attacking the process listen there's a whole other side of residents in faen that are upset that this ordinance goes too far on the other side which is they don't want to have to pay $2,000 to take down their own tree and they don't want to pay $1,000 to take down their own tree you know what I think if it's that upsetting from an environmental side and it's that upsetting from the other side where people have to pay we're probably in the middle in the right place if it was just one side that was upset about it then we probably went too far to the one side but it's both sides that are upset which tells me that we're in the right as a commissioner on the stage commission I did not feel qualified to be writing this ordinance okay I understand that but the wasn't none of the Commissioners were and I don't know that we got appropriate legal is bias that's that's all I'm saying is that you know what's in it I don't know that all of us might understood all well this governing body is very appreciative to the shade tree commission for all the hard work they did on the ordinance the recommendation that they made and at the next meeting it'll come up and if there's a majority of the governing body that supports the orance and move forward there's not a majority of the governing body that supports it it won't move forward that's where we're at that's the that's the end game right now and where we are in the shatri Ence I think we're just wasting our time I'm sorry I feel I feel very discounted right now I know you're upset and you want this thing done and push through and you're tired of talking about it but I just need to I'm not pushing anything through I think we've already discussed the give list to the next meeting we've already discussed yeah but it's being pushed it's being tabled if we want any changes diminish changes so it's not we we haven't talked about it four times we talked about it once like where we could make any changes we've already discuss that after if if the ordinance is passed it will go back to the shade tree commission for discussion for any of those changes and I do have an issue with going back but let me just say one thing you framed it this way and Brian framed it this way that it's a a discussion a balance between property rights and environmentalist I don't see them as mutually exclusive I think that's a terrible way to frame this and it doesn't mean that someone's an environmentalist is not cares about property rights there was a decision made about chickens a year ago and where would that have fall fell we told people they couldn't have chickens that's a property rights issue so I think that's not a fair framework and to say that the the that we came to an agreement in the middle of these two two things that aren't even existence it's like I didn't even know property rights were a thing so for it to be framed that way I don't property rights are you're saying it's frame it was property rights versus environmentalist and we came to a I didn't say versus I think we balanced the two okay versus balance but they're not two ends of an extreme they property rights people can like the EnV can care about the environment envirment well right now there's an ordinance where people feel as if their property rights are en hinged on they are they are thing we vote on has to do with people's property rights we tell them what to do on their properties all the time the the ordinances all of our ordinances dictate what people can do on their properties I don't understand how this right so we're trying to rebalance this so that it so that it is balanced for both of those things I would like to make a suggestion because it is the intent of the legislation that this body the deliberative body has not had a chance to discuss the intent was rebaked in when the template was put before the shade tree commission for as you say discussion the attention should be crafted out of the consensus of the six legislators and I would like to suggest that we put that on the agenda so that the legislation reflects the collective values of the community which is embodied in the six legislators this is what our function is we're supposed to debate these issues give us the analysis give us the data give us the legal expertise and the technical expertise but then come up with what the intent is I was never part of that discussion I was procedurally what are you recommending well I would defer to the mayor but I believe that would be a workshop and I think with Alison's guidance she could tell us where that would F the agenda but I think that's a workshop session is that what you would call it that' be a question for Alison would it be a workshop to discuss the have something that's introduced if it doesn't fall through or you want to scrap the ordinance and start over but how do we get to the point where before it's introduced what she's saying is before it's introduced already has been introduced it's have not I think she's talking about moving forward are you saying for this one specific or moving forward about generally well both actually because I think we're at this point we've kind of been handing some handed something when it was finally in ordinance form it was also on the agenda for introduction so it was all pre-baked and hand to us rather than us participating in the purpose and intent of the legislation that's a little backwards we had a work on this we had a workshop on this ordinance saw an form had workshop on this ordinance we had one Workshop before it was end and it was not in ordinance form when it was workshopped and I know this because I purposely asked finish my sentence intentional to make sure that we had legal review it because that have not happened yet and I confirmed that before the meeting and I wanted to make sure that we had an administrative review so that it could those things could be incorporated when we looked at it again so as far as just just to refresh your memory I sent this out if I recall it was on the 2nd of the month and I didn't get a comment from anyone on the council until the 13th you I you had it for 11 so so you want me to plan for as a mayor to wait wait for you at the 11th hour to post a comment just so we can keep kicking the the ball the canther down the street is a deliberative body when we are together this is when we deliberate this is when I'm going to finish my sentence and this is when our the people we represent hear how our positions on these matters this is a law that will affect everyone and their property as well as their pocket books given the price tags of these things so this body did not have a deliberative remember I talked to you about this after the meeting and I talked to you about too so this was no surprise it's my agenda I've set the agenda this way can we move on workshop and it had all the information you had the attorney just put it into check and you knew all how we felt about all the issues and none of them were taken most them weren't taken into disagreeing with with the content and if if there's a majority of the counil that supports the content it's going to move forward that's the process you don't have to like it but except you circumvented the deliberative process I did not we had a workshop just clarify you can just keep throwing out the process time and time again because you don't like the end result but it's not going to change the fact that there's a majority of the people up here that do support the process that we took it and it was the most inclusive process that I can recall on any single ordinance that we've ever run through this Council ever I've been here 3 years inclusive process I'm gonna offer a closing comment so that Alison just clarified that we we didn't was work we worksh the last year and it was decided not to go it's been with this body it's been going on for seven years not this body that's the problem it's like yes I understand this I I just want to add something real quick too regarding administrative review that uh Council mcole brought up we did have an administrative review on Friday we after received the final document of the the minous changes we had a administrative review on Friday with the document uh the meeting consisted of Christina mm who uh drafted the final version it was me Allison uh Nancy Briton our CFO Sherry Sparrow our certified tree expert along with gr Cardell our engineer and also Nick Pinsky our DPW director and chrisy Larson our shade tree um Deputy Clerk and St tree secretary and we did do a full administrative review of the ordinance and as far as from that what's that are there any notes to share with the any analysis that the council should be advised of we we did not take any notes we did because again we went over as far as what the process would be we couldn't make any changes to it um anything anything more than dommin would have been an issue with the ordinance but we did do an administrative view how it would function and we also had Sher Sparrow review it as well as how she would handle it so each part of our administrative function would be able to carry out the ordinance in its program so procedurally um who where where would the non-dom minimist changes originate well we can we can't make non-dom minimist it's a standard uh change and I'm asking you who which body would do that that would be the legislative would have to make a motion right this B correct right the shry commission it would no longer be done now we people that I am aware I just want to Echo so it's not the shade commission so on the topic of workshops then I would also I was going to bring this up a new business and didn't um I would like to put forward an idea that we add more workshops and I understand that we don't want our meetings to go long but other cities and towns do pull out their workshops from their Council meetings and I think that if we had workshops even before our meetings here say like 5:30 to 7 uh that could help and it would allow us to be able to thoroughly deliberate on some of the topics that maybe some of us feel that since we're not part of the Sha aism for the shade tree commission we're not Le the finance committee that we don't hear get to understand a lot of the stuff the background on this we're not coming at it on a even playing field and so by the time it gets to us and you're giving us 11 days to talk to go through it we're starting from scratch so it's not quite 11 so I am proposing that we reconsider the structure of our meetings for 2025 and that would also allow us to bring back or I would like to bring back the liais on reports and there are ways to do it where we don't report every single meeting we can have different um commit and commissions on different days but I think that some of this might be solved if there was a little bit more reporting leading up to this and we understood maybe where things stood and some of the ideas that had been proposed or any of the discussions that had been made so I would like to put forward an idea to reconsider moving workshops to a different timing and also to bring back the Aon reports thank you anyone else would go to the burrow sure so CHR I just want to understand so Sher read through it she was okay with it and you read through it and you were protects our trees and satisfactory matter I can't say what I based on the language of the ordinance it works with the other portions of the ordinance and it was based on what was the majority vote give my that's the piece that is I feel as a shade Tre commissioner was missing is that we never got legal advice we never had her Christina sitting there going well if you wanted to protect this if you wanted to ensure this this is the language that I'm the attorney for the for the governing body though not the sh Tre noty no we're both we're we're the attorneys for the governing body the mayor and Council though not the sh Tre commission which is why legislation should originate with this body it's not job to answer the question that you asked though it's not her job to answer it's not our job to write an ordinance that's just but but but it is the shade tree commission's in in my opinion it is the shade tree commission's job to discuss an ordinance like this and and reflect the values of how it would be implemented in the burough fa and then they Prov and then they provided their recommendations which they did to the governing body in the form of a workshop where we sat and discussed it and then it went to the attorney who wrote the actual ordinance from a legal standpoint to make sure that it was legally documented in a way I don't even know the language never came back to the shry commission the final version we never saw that we wanted to review their legal well we just never saw we were told we would see the the document and we never saw it and it just was on the agenda for approval and we never got to actually see the final version so I'm just saying but but then again at the last meeting they're not here tonight but the last meeting when you started discussing this the chair of the shade tree commission got up and gave support to this exact same ordinance and stood right next to you and said we support this and acknowledge just like everyone up on this dat that it's not a perfect ordinance and we will have a speed bump after it's implemented and we recognize that but we're going to learn from that speed bump and speed bump number two and speed bump number three to perfect it the best we can it'll never be perfect ever just like any land use ordinance that we put forth that works for 2 years three years and then we realize that we need to make other changes to that as well so we're going to constantly be it's a breathing document we're going to constantly improve it but we need to implement something to start and learn from it because what's gone on the last seven years however that's not working it's not that that orance does not work we've lived through it not a single tree appeal has been denied in three years not one not a single tree won't be going forward either yeah but the differences will'll be putting trees in the ground which we weren't doing before we weren't that's the difference that's yeah it's not that it's there there's a tree replacement formula what tree for tree not three trees for onee not four trees for one tree we never for I guarantee we took down more than four trees and I have four but Bill but Bill that's also a different discussion which I've already had yes with the burre administrator and something that is important if we're going to pass legislation it needs to be enforced that's a different discussion well but it's part of this no it is I'm saying it the new ordinance needs to be enfor something we didn't enforce didn't work yeah right so therefore we have to pass something new yeah we could try we would I would love to have seen us try to enforce what we had and then say that doesn't work before we introduce new that's you know lots of holes in it yeah we're put and clearly there's not consensus now I know you feel you've called you have four votes because you have said that um but it's clearly there it isn't unanimous it doesn't need to be unanimous that's you always talk about how government works that's not how government works it doesn't need to be unanimous I hear you I'm just saying that there are a lot of issues with it and we continue to make that hurt known but it's we're going to learn from those issues and we're going to continue approve the ordinance I would also say the speak up is something you don't see coming when we know exactly we know what the unintended unintended consequences are it's called intentional so we know where some of those problems are now if we operated that way we would be nowhere that that's coming we know a lot we know every every unintended consequence unended ones know let's move on purpose was not to get everybody upset um I just wanted to just speak on behalf as a commissioner what I one and I just want to share out thank you thank you Bonnie is there anyone else with a good to the Bur comment um mayor I hold on we still we we'll come back yeah no AB anything anything having to do with the burrow you can speak Ed we're at 345 Fair Haven Road um we're just a little we know that there's an um the fairen road Improvement plan I know not a number of our um neighbors have reached out to the council we have more understanding of just what it actually means the timing the expense of it what you know property owners are now going to be responsible for um just understanding that there are a lot of things that are changing in the proposed plan so there is the number of concerned residents on that road with the plan that it you know in its current form but then also from a an enforcement perspective so I know that there there I think there's um talk about putting up the speed signs or actual like radar temporary speed signs that can be deployed at different times I don't believe they're permanent correct um when so it was put in front of our house maybe a month ago and we saw people just flying down the road 35 40 miles hour even with the signs so I know that the intent is for safe roads to improve the road itself but also the enforcement has to be there and we don't see it um so so that's that's uh I'm sure the chief will connect with you offline and I'm sure he's going to want to hear the story and what your experience was because I'm sure he he uh you know from an enforcement standpoint we write the ordinance the the department does a great job of enforcing it so that that's a discussion with the chief but do you have any specific questions as it relates to that plan that when will we be notified I think it's it's it's currently scheduled as a spring project that and that's phase one phase two both phases at concurrently yes yeah yep and then we'll understand what our responsibilities are from well I don't know where you I don't know where you live um exactly on the road if you already have sidewalks in front of your house okay so so then most likely based on you would be getting sidewalks so the only responsibility you have and correct me I'm wrong Alison Chris Rich would be shoveling snow I believe right correct yeah and and what's the time what's the time they have 48 hours Alison from the last s 48 hours the last no and where we live right now we can actually park in front of our house I understand that that is going away as part of this so I would like to understand what other you know scenarios that we have as homeowners to be able to extend our driveway I know that there's you know um certain rules in terms of zoning how much you know perable land and whatnot so these are just a lot of questions that and everyone's in a different position if you if you email so if you email questions to Chris for administrator he can he can get you 10 of your questions okay specific to your house okay yeah in general if you have a generic question about parking on the street he can answer that as well but I'm saying if you have specific questions as it relates to how it'll affect your property he can he can get the answer my email right I just still for B administr we have emails there send me an email answer any questions you have can can I just tell you one thing a couple of weeks ago Tracy and I met with your neighbors and we walked the street and we had a really good conversation uh this afternoon I spoke with bur administrator York and I asked him to do the same thing once Rich has the plans set because I know they're hard to read especially they're really I can't read them but um I asked him and he agreed that he and or rich or both of them will meet with your neighbors and explain to you exactly what's going to happen I appreciate that thank you uh anyone in the public go to the burrow before I go to zoom out I yes um so on Sunday I had the opportunity Tracy and I took a walk we worked with um uh Mark olssen and his volunteers on the Third Street Trail and I had a really interesting conversation with Mark he was talking about the fact that every Saturday there are opportunities for volunteers to come and water the plants or maybe even plant some plants but he said it was really difficult to keep track of who volunteered who was coming who showed up who was coming the next week and he wasn't quite sure how to handle that at the same time Tracy and I walking around town we've run into a lot of residents who say how can I volunteer who can I volunteer with how can I get involved so I had conversation with burrow administrator York today we kind of brainstormed some ideas and one of the ideas that I I'm going to hand over to you is on the bur web page creating a central point for all volunteers that are connected to the burrow of fa Haven love it yeah so um I talked to uh Betty uby who handles all of our social media with the burrow and what we can do very easily is create a uh link right on our website with a um sign up page and we can have links to different you know again B Affiliated groups that are looking for volunteers one example again like a council talked about like Third Street Trail um but there if you're interested in you know volunteering time for Third Street Trail you can enter your information in and then what we can do is forward that contact information to whoever is heading up that group so be Mark Olsson heads up that group be forwarded to him that way he can get a good list of volunteers if people are interested plus the other thing too it also it's a central point of um all our different organizations we have here in town to volunteer with some people don't know and um and again anything affiliated with the burrow we would have it there and that way we can help improve ters and you know even we could probably do that an affair for the fire department first aid as well to have it on there great that's great I'm actually doing that in Long Branch so we should talk yes I I I think that's a fantastic idea I'm sure you get with the schools as well on it you know we do a microcosm of that for the fair um the volunteer system it's extraordinary complex for the fair we have a form for those of you who have signed up and if you pict our drop down our options as if it were different borrow opportunities and that gets fed into a csb into a database that can be sorted by um the days that they're available whatever you want so um ours obviously is sort of a j June through September um activity but I just want to tell you that is the way to go you're going to do that and then the big thing is managing your datab base contacting making sure to than people all that good stuff but it is doable the very simple Health Forum yeah and I'm glad you mentioned I mean I didn't want to get the specifics but Civic plus is the vendor we have runs the website and they have the options we create that and again it'll it'll dump into a c CSV um Excel sheet and that way we can track and Reit the people so thank you um wanted to mention the no conversation oh sure um bet sorry Council and cot and I had um a second conversation with um no with um woman who runs the student council there and we had circulated some ideas after the last council meeting that we had hosted at Milwood back in 2023 and we're looking for opportunities to get the students more engaged in a meeting so everybody knows we have one meeting per year at Milwood a lot of it has been sort of a report out introductions of ourselves we get cared up with buddies we're looking to make it much more interactive and hands- on for the students so we had a brainstorming session with again the woman that runs pela Greenhall that um the student council and we've come up with a construct that we're excited about more to come um essentially what we'd like to do is basically take the eight student council members right was eight um and break them up into small groups where they would be assigned sort of a real life scenario that we're task that we're dealing with or problem that we're dealing with in Fair Haven um and they would work together as groups each council member would sponsor one of the groups so that we' have an opportunity to work with this group periodically leading up to March um and the idea that is that they would we would give them certain parameters and they would come up with some solutions so it could be safety it could be garbage it could be make it up we're still working on that we definitely welcome feedback if you have ideas on um on different scenarios but the idea is again um to have the students work on them in small groups with sponsorship from the council and then at the meeting in March make the majority of the meeting a report out from those groups um again so that have students have the opportunity to guess get engaged in Fair Haven part of the solution get involved early and and and notice that they can make a difference news though best news oh the H the holiday decorations arrived today the newcor so laser if you're listening we're finally old I said holiday Encompass holidays Alison do we have any good of the burrow Mrs pleas enre time hi Ruth hi there I've been listening for a while everybody sit back and breathe I mean this this is just I had from a resident's perspective this resident's perspective this tree ordinance is just a morass frankly in my opinion and it has been this way for decades Fair Haven was a more laid-back Town it was a let and L Let Live town now everything is it has to be a certain way and I think the burrow has far too much to say with what goes on on our property if we pay our taxes we should be able to do what we want with it I also object to the constructions you have to get a permit do you have anything I needan to cut you up so you want us to be able to do what we want on our property so you for the ordinance I want the burrow to back off that would be for the ordance well the other one was had its penalties and things also the point being if I have a tree in my yard when I buy my house and I I lived there for 40 years and every day I look out in the has gotten bigger and at some point I want to take it down I don't want to have to ask the Burrow's permission the burrow isn't going to pay to have it taken down and I just feel excuse me if I pay my taxes I should be able to do anything I want there's too much Aesthetics going on in Fair Haven too many people have too much to say about what other residents are doing it's personal choice you pay your taxes stay out of my yard I I if I want to put a lawn full of garden gnomes I don't want the approbation of the town down on me because they don't particularly like the Aesthetics I want the burrow to just back off keep the streets clean keep the brush picked up clean up schanker Pond do thing with the infrastructure and just leave us alone okay thank you thank you Ruth just I'm just going to mention it sounds like you like the tree ordinance more than you realize um and we we we are um you know obviously we have a Mardon subcommittee and it it doesn't go beyond us that we got to look at schwers doing the Aesthetics of schwers as well um Allison anyone else to the Bur Chris Mr Hemstead I think Chris Chris Rodriguez oh chis up hey guys I just wanted first of all thank you all for serving um I know what it's like I um I I just appreciate you all for what you do um this has nothing to do with the tree ordinance um I just wanted to say thank you to councilwoman Hoy who took forward a suggestion I had made about um repairing the tennis courts the courts were put in in August of 2017 they're fantastic we share them with the uh with the high school who also split the cost with us and um former council president um um Susan senson and also current council president cotch were affiliated with the rec committee when those all went in so I appreciate um the focus on fix them because they've seven years on they're showing showing wear and tear and they're cracking and they just need a little bit of love and if you do a little love along the way the things are going to last a lot longer so I just want to say um thank you for um taking that suggestion forward and uh and making that happen I believe the construction started possibly this week so um just want to say thanks for doing that thank you and CH good time to plug that tennis team that that girls tennis team right now right know they um they're going to have an even better year next year even though one of my kids will be gone um the uh the program's on the up and up so um great investment by the by the burrow so much appreciated thanks Chris and uh just piggybacking on that I believe that we resurfaced the court based on the grant that we had at mcarter Park as well and put up new baskets so we take a look at that I think it looks pretty good Alison anyone else no anyone else in the public anyone else on the D all right we are going to move towards adjournment at 8:28 p.m. do I have a motion motion I have a second all in favor anyone opposed good night