Call the meeting to order at 702 and let's stand for the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with
liberty and justice for all. >> Let's stand for a moment of silence. >> Thank you. In accordance with the provisions of the open public meetings act, public meetings may be held in person or by means of communication equipment to
include streaming services and other online meeting platforms. This meeting is being held in person and through the Zoom meeting platform being broadcast on Burough Hall, 7:48 River Road, Air Haven, New Jersey. Public participation
for this regular council meeting of October 14th, 2025 is available by callin, phone number, or through web conference Zoom. Members of the public will be on mute until it is time for questions or comments which
will be announced. At that time, the public has the opportunity to question or comment by phone or through Zoom by the raise the hand button and will be called on at the appropriate time. Notice of this meeting was included in the schedule of meetings which was
adopted by resolution number 2025-13 and sent to the Asbury Park Press and the Two River Times on January 7th, 2025. Posted on the Burough website, the bulletin board in the municipal building and has remained continuously posted as
required under the statute. With adequate notice having been given, the ver clerk is directed to include the statement in the minutes of this meeting. May we have a roll call, please. Council members Paul >> here, >> here,
>> here, >> here, Barbara, >> present, >> Olen. We also have administrator Burke, attorney so attorney Zoom, CFO Britman Gardell also. >> Um
workshop session, the first order of business is the evil evil scaff project signage. Uh Chris, will you take the lead on that please? >> Yes. And uh do we have the sample sign? >> Yes, he'll pack it. Is there a packet?
So, just as a followup um from a couple governing body meetings ago, um the mayor had put a request out to um to have a um rendering of a sample sign for the governing body to take a look at. Um everybody has a copy of it that's in
their packet. That's the scale. I have an actual fiscal copy. If anybody wants to see it, I'll pass it around. Um this the sign has the Eagle Scout logo on it, the burrow seal. Um, it has the name of the project that the Eagle Scout worked on and it also has the the name of the
Eagle Scout and the year of the project on there. Um, the goal behind the size of the sign um was so that the sign would not be u would take away from the project and that not be intrusive um while at the same time still honoring the project by having the year, the name
of the project and the um Eagle Scout that was involved in it. And uh care was also taken to make sure that both insignas, the burrow insignia as well as the Eagle Scout insignia was put on the sign to give recognition to both. And uh the sign was um actually the rendering
sample was done by our sign vendor um who does all of our signs here in the burough of Fair Haven. >> Is this a wood sign? Is that what the color is or >> That's what the goal was to make it a natural color rather than, you know, a blue or something that would stand out.
Um obviously again that's a rendering so we did it on a um a piece of PVC material. Um we didn't want to because in case there were changes we had to have other samples made up. Uh you know we use something that was stupid and expensive but we would use a higher quality of material so that it would
obviously last not fade and also blend into the natural area look like it's part of it not that it's >> I like it blend. It is it's >> Yeah. So that was the S. So in speaking with the mayor um that was this that was the um parameters
that those are the parameters that I was given for a sign about that size. That's what they were looking for again so that it wouldn't take away from the project that it wouldn't be you know the sign you know wouldn't overpower anything. Um, no, it's not going to overpower anything besides my index card attached
to though because like if it's attached to a pole, the pole beer >> you have the pole I don't have the exact dimensions of the pole, but the pole would roughly be about the same width of that sign. It it seems like I get that we don't it just seems a little small
like for a song for any kind of sign like I don't even know it's supposed to be more of an acknowledgement than than a sign and it's I think is the same size on the B hotel. >> What's that? >> The same size as the sign on the bee hotel. >> I am not sure the dimensions of the bee
hotel >> but is the bee hotel attached to the bee hotel because that makes more sense like if it's part of like something but like that alone like It's a long >> Can we just back up for a quick minute? Yes. So where the conversation left off
was we were going to come up with standard sign right >> Eagle Scout >> and we were going to start with Eagle Scouts to ensure so is is what we're talking about twofold that going forward
for any scout project right that this is the standard standard size standard color standard template all of that >> I think it's quite it's a retroactive >> yeah 100% we'll have Yeah, but I just want to start first with the standard, right? Because then we have to adopt it
and make sure that going forward Chris Andrew, right? That whatever it is and then the second thing is let's answer that first. So is this the standard that we're saying? >> So this so this is this is the sample of the proposed standard for Eagle Scout project signs. Um and again to to make
it easier for the governing body and again anybody in attendance, um we had a rendering made up of what the sign would look like in real life. Um but those are the size the dimensions of the parameters that were proposed to me um to have um our sign vendor design and uh and what wording you know again keep the
sign. >> Yes. So it's not additional information. So acknowledges the project the year and the Eagle Scout as well as um with the insign forward. Is that sort of the size we're looking at for other projects then? because this is not one I'm going to fit a lot of information if there
were to be more information put on another project signed. Can you just hold it up for me? Like can can I like if I could I just want to see how far I can see it. >> It's an index card. >> It's a I don't know. I think it's small.
>> I would love to hear I would love to hear from like the Eagle Scouts though just to hear >> their feedback too. But that would just be I just worry that I worry that if we're setting this standard then we don't have a lot of room to grow for for the next standards.
>> I think for tonight's discussion we're only talking about this template. >> It's the problem is it's starting our conversation. It's starting the set of standards that we're holding. >> Mayor the chair permission to grab something from the audience.
I don't want I don't want to be >> Oh, great. Oh, great. >> Burn. >> So, is this This was I'm assuming this this repair shop that >> Yeah, >> I think I think this is a little too big.
>> I I think that's too small. That's too big. I think there's got to be I have to be mean with someone. But >> this is a 5 by7. I guess >> that's 3x five. Sorry. Yeah, >> I think >> something makes better sense
just to give it some. >> Listen, I I love the color. I love the material because it has to survive. We want to think about it cost, right? I love the content. I love all of it. I just think >> he's showing his pictures that shows like kind of scale to Well, yeah, I get
it. Well, um the delay of this too small that's too big. Something in between. >> What's the next? Like I'm thinking index card. Next size is 5 by seven. Then you have
>> 8 by 10 by eight. >> 6 by eight. >> 8 by 10 be that piece of paper. >> I think 8 by10 is too big. I think >> 57. >> 5 by seven and 6 by eight. If we could see both. >> What? Just out of cube. What did they say that the 250 flap was going to be? nine nine inches by 12 inches but in the
ground >> in the ground. So again that's like a different thing and >> this is just about boy scouts. >> I get it but I think it's not ultimately just about boy scouts. We're starting with the Boy Scouts but this >> well even just for Boy Scouts it's like
trying to say it's not it's not acknowledging it. It's like, "Oh, hey, if you want to go find it, there it is." >> And it's they wanted that. I'll say what it would be, Chris, to make the same mockup for 5x7. >> I'd like to see 6 by8.
>> I I I could I to be honest, they didn't charge me for that sign because they know obviously um it's a sample and we've done a lot of business with them. So, I could easily get a 5x7 and a 6 by8 or whatever the next sign. >> Is it possible to ask the Boy Scouts though just or CS? I have a question
generally for Eagle Scouts. Do they >> Wait, real quick. Just I'm not sorry. I want a follow process. Mayor and chair. >> I'm sorry. Thank you. >> Are we like do we need to like get permission? Do we need to request a motion to allow member of the audience
during workshop? Like >> we can for discussion. >> We're having discussion. >> Okay. >> Yeah. I have no problem. >> I guess my question for you guys is >> do the do the Eagle Scouts generally make recommendations on what they like on the signs too and does that not not
that we have to go by their standards but generally what do they suggest? Would it be more information that they like on it? >> Can you guys read that sign just so you know what's on it so the public knows what's on it? Yeah, >> I think it's helpful to know. >> Do you want me to read it?
>> Yeah. Now, this bike repair station is dedicated to the people of Fair Haven, New Jersey in the spirit of advancing our cycling culture. It was paid for by donations from our community members and friends of scouting. Special thanks to the members of the troop 125 and the
employees and officials of Burough Fair for supporting the project. Eagle Scout Jack Rodriguez dedicated July 4th, 2024. Wonderful. >> That's lovely. >> Because what are we talking about this being a little bit moreformational, too? Like we love that kids stop and read stuff. I mean that came up I know in our
last discussion I think some context is great but >> it's a little bit more eloquent. >> Um >> so if there going to be many more Eagle Scout projects we hope
>> you do I guess the question is how much information do we want to include? Right. >> I think that's fair. >> Um and so what's what let's think about what we want to include and then we can think about the size. Right. Yeah. So they don't dictate. >> Exactly. So you know the wording on the
current 3x5 template is that enough information. Do we want more? How much more? >> Um thanking too. Is that a piece of it? Do we want to thank people? Do we not want to thank people? >> Permission to just put a stream of consciousness out there. So out of out
of everything on here, my my favorite part of this is the first sentence. the bike repair stations dedicated to the people of Fair Haven in the spirit of advancing our cycling culture, right? I think if we somehow can capture a oneliner, right, >> with the components of this and a
slightly larger sign, that would be a happy medium. >> Slightly larger than this because I I love that like I love knowing that, hey, this is an Eagle Scout projecting cycling culture, right? I think it gives a little bit more meaning and purpose behind it and it will long outlook many
of us. So I think if we go slightly bigger and within the standard that we've set this one sentence liner I think that's a a happy medium going forward. >> So it's it's Eagle Scout project purpose in a oneline statement and then what does it say?
>> Then it's got the scout name project and the scout year. >> Is there a date on that one? I love I love you. >> I'll just add the the one liner you're calling it. It's it it's an expression of our community values >> and that's why it resonates for us. Like
yeah, that's matters to us. >> So he's a vision statement. >> Yeah, it did the project. >> Just a sentence about what's the reason for it? >> I think I think one sentence. >> I think that's all we have to add to it, >> but it'll need to be bigger in order to
accomplish that. And we we also last time said like >> actually I don't say we're good because scouts covers everything. Okay, cool. >> And the third street trail is happy with that with having a sign that size. >> Oh, I don't think they have an issue
with the signs. Third street trail right? No, >> that was the the issue started from here. >> So we're going to increase the standard to address the size. We'll get two size copies at the next meeting. And the other component of this pattern we're gonna add is a oneline.
>> Yeah. Purpose. >> Purpose. >> Purpose. Mission statement. Culture. How >> the way in which it kind of >> So since I don't want to write Charlie's mission statement for him, what I will do um for the two sample sizes, I'll just break it down what goes in each line. So we'll have the Yeah. And then
that way we have a standard. We'll have Eddie's name on. We'll just break it down, you know, what has goes in each one in line. My question will be the governing body. What sizes um do we want to bring back for the next meeting? >> I almost think uh 5 by7 is not going to work once we add a sentence. 5 by 7
might work with just that >> too small. I think that still might be too small by >> I don't think it should be any bigger. >> I don't think it should be I there's going to be multiple projects hopefully. Right. >> Let me look up standard sizes because we don't want custoy size because then that's cost
>> and they they cut to whatever we want. It's not a >> because this affects mostly the Eagle Scouts and obviously the look of the town. I would love to just hear their thoughts. Is that >> I thought that's what Chris gave us. >> Well, I don't think they Chris, do you have anything to add? You guys want to
have any feedback? >> I was assuming you guys could comment on the agenda after Should we be keeping >> We just asked that question though, right? >> May I approach? >> Yes, please. Of course.
Uh, Chris Rodriguez, 134 plus Drive. Eagle Scout 196, uh, father of Eagle Scout 2024. Matt Rodriguez, who's not here today, is playing soccer with, uh, the mayor's son right now.
>> Um, the purpose of a sign is to market so that people can know that scouts are doing good things in the community and learn a little bit about the thing. And so, um, for my Eagle project back in '
86, we had a sign smaller than that one, probably somewhere between two. Um, not quite as big as Jack's. Um, but that one, um, we the focus on Fair Haven. I handed that that around. It just shows the sign relatively speaking, how big it
is. when you look at it in context on a building next to the sign, next to the unit itself, it's appropriate. So, not every sign is going to be the right size. Um, the one at the B hotel um is
an 8 and 1/2, sorry, um yeah, 8 and 1 half by 11 sheet of paper. It's just a sheet of paper and it's literally like stapled to the side under a piece of plastic. We can take that down and put this up because it's going to last a lot longer. Um, I think that's a great idea.
Um, I think that the sign size shouldn't be any more than that's a 12 x 12. Um, should not be any bigger than that. And frankly, if it's got to be smaller, I think we're all fine with that. I was looking over to the scouts before and I don't know that they want, they're not Eagles yet, so they don't
have an opinion about this particular topic yet, but I do want to pave the way for these young scouts to be recognized for the thousand. So, a thousand hours have gone into this town across seven projects over the last nine years. So, I
went back and I looked it all up. I think we've gotten one complaint about one sign over nine years. And so, for me, I'm a little upside down right now on how we're spending this much time on it, but I do appreciate that we are and we're going to get it right. I think the
big um big thing we want to I want to see come out of this is what kind of wording can we put on it? the seal, the badge, the the the youngster's name, the date, and then like how do we frame that sentence is really important. Do we come
back here so that Charlie can come back here with his sentence or or Owen or Aiden or Kayla or anybody? And do you guys want to be involved at that level or do you want it to go through DJ? Um do you want to delegate that that in my
mind? >> I would suggest just to respond to that one piece. You can almost structure it like an ad and that could be developed by anyone at central office and and if it doesn't fit then you they can get on the phone and talk to one of the staff. That's my opinion. I
>> I don't think we govern the components our work is done. >> I think she gives some guidance on what limits like structure the that portion that speaks to the community values. I call it that and and just they can fill in the blank and then a template. Yeah.
>> So I guess my question to you is do you feel like what we're promote what we're suggesting is enough. >> Okay. I think it's great because size doesn't matter that much big enough. >> This is so hold on. Hold on one second. Hold on one second. >> So
>> in the future once they set these figures the Eagle Scout presents their project to the governing body for their approval they should have their line or >> I don't know. >> Beautiful. This way when you guys approve the project >> XYZ >> you approve the
>> approve the signage too. >> Yeah. >> May I make a motion? >> Crystal question. >> Yes. >> Can you can you present us with a a template for two different sizes that would reflect the information we're looking for?
>> Yeah. Just um I would just like to have some guidance on governing body. What sizes I can get three if you wanted to. You know, if I was going to say we do three, 5 by 7, 6 by 8, and 8 by 8. >> Can we get Can we get a green? >> 5 by seven. 5 by 7, 6 by 8, 8 by 10.
>> I don't think we need the 5x7. >> Just think a visual visual means so powerful, right? >> I'll get I'll get three. That's fine. But again, with these signs, just because I don't want to write Charlie's statement is on the line. She's pending. So, >> I'm just going to write a template
though. Hold on. Hold on. Can we b up for a second? That one line, what is it about? Are we saying is it the purpose? Is it how it ties to the community? Is it No, I think we need to be prescriptive, right? Like I I agree with your point on, but we have to agree on
what we want that one line to summarize. Is it how it connects to the community? Is it the purpose of the project? Is it both? >> Don't we give that creativity though to them? >> Why? >> Yeah. Why would because it's going to be part of a template. for the next Eagle Scout project. >> The essence of the project
>> I think and how it ties Tracy was saying >> Council Councilwoman Paul was saying how it ties to community. >> I think that's just we need to be prescriptive. >> Why don't you just say how does this tie into your community project? >> Yeah, >> I think they need to give you that
>> and then it could be it could be a purpose. It could be anything. >> Okay. And I think maybe for this since you already have the one sentence that's already been done for this we all like it. Why not just make the three examples of this one make your life easier? I'll just I'll just get them done that
way. We have a template that's >> um Can I ask one more question? Um are we then going back and making all the Eagle Style projects conform to this? >> That was at the end. So >> they'll pay for it. >> Three sizes 5x7 6 8 by 10. these
components plus the one sentence tying it back to >> community values and the mission or purpose. >> Okay. >> Cool. >> Yeah. >> When we bring it back when we bring it back, we have to work it again. Sorry. >> You're going to have to create an
ordinance for signs. >> Right. >> But at the next meeting, we should very at least be able to give direction to Charlie and say, "Hey, Charlie, here's here's the standard. Go ahead and create your sign." Right. Well, now if we're going to create an ordinance, >> they probably want to just wait until
>> I'm trying to get out of can we fast track this like can we do we have to reworkshop it >> right can we approve it >> you want to workshop it introduce the same meeting >> yeah like I'm trying and fairness to
like let's get moving on this right we got some >> I have Mrs. Can we fast track this in any way? I'm in various discounts English time on this. >> I'd be comfortable out of the next meeting saying Charlie will go ahead but
>> yeah work on the ordinance. Um and >> we have the ordinance ready with just a blank on the size. >> Yeah, that's the size. Get everything else done, right? Well, the problem is I'm going to draft an ordinance and then I'm we're going to have to make a substantial change to
ordinance by including the size. And so, >> and we don't know >> I'm not going to I'm not going to have >> I mean, I could draft ordinances, you know, three different ordinances with all different sizes and and then we go to one of them. I mean ordinance without size and just
>> no because the size is what's probably most important like for everyone is you know is it going to be a billboard or is it going to be >> a post-it note >> council they he his sign is currently up I believe though >> so he does I think right we sign up so
there is some How interesting was this? Is the nurse? >> Yes. Can you hear me? >> Yes. >> Okay. I wasn't sure. Sorry I'm not there. I've got a terrible head cold, so I didn't want to come infect all of you. Um, that's why we're not there. Anyway,
I wanted to also >> just name it. Just name and address, please. >> Oh, sorry. Gina Ern 47. And I wanted to go back to what uh Chris Rodriguez said in there have been seven
signs in nine years and this is what we're making a big deal about. Does it anyone else see this as a little bit odd? And also, we're making the signs smaller and harder to see because we don't want them to stand out, but we do
want kids to be able to see that scouting is great and we're promoting it and look at what you can do for your community. I It doesn't make sense to me. I feel like we're talking it out of both ends with these. And it's not like signs are popping up all over the place.
Very few scouts make it to Eagle. They're they're not just going up willy-nilly all over the town the same way a lot of the political signs are and the athletic signs are and those don't seem to be an issue. I granted those are not permanent but
>> their size is also determined by >> so Mr. Mr. This is uh Andrew Sville. Um you know I respect your you know your statement and however everything has to be uniform. Everything has to be codified and in order for this
to be something both permanent on whatever you know a tree or you know at at the place where we're uh honoring um that Eagle Scout is that everything has to be uniform. We can't just say,
okay, this sign is, you know, subject to this ordinance and then that sign is, you know, subject, you know, there's there's signs on River Road that are different from the signs that are on Ridge Road. So, we have to make sure that there is an ordinance in place
because hopefully this is something that's permanent and goes forward where we know that the Eagle Scouts don't have to come to every single council meeting and have the same, you know, you know, banter back and forth because I understand, you know, the frustration. However, there has to be a process in
place and this will allow the Eagle Scouts going forward to be able to affix that sign just with the approval of their project. So, >> and I am fine with there being a standard because I do think that would help it be recognized like, hey, that's
got to be an eagle sign because you see them all looking alike. I think that is fine. But what I'm saying is trying to have them blend in more. I I'm not sure that that's the best thing. And it's not really to recognize the Eagle Scout. It's to recognize the project and
scouting itself and promote that. >> Thank you for the role. eyes. The eye roll. That was a good one. >> Oh, >> the gentleman who was just speaking before >> I did not roll my eyes, but >> the intent and that's and that's why we
want to add the one sentence to it, right? But >> well, yeah, I was going to respond personally to say um I actually shared your sentence. We we've had we've I speaking for myself and I think everyone on the council does want to acknowledge the valuable role that scales play and
to really champion kind of dedication they put into achieving scouting that eagle style. So getting it the right size and allowing for the proper acknowledgement the wording I think that's what you know we were given a template here to look at tonight. Um, I think you've heard we don't want to do
that, we want to do something else. And I believe that everyone is coming at it with a spirit of trying to do exactly what you just said like properly acknowledge the effort, the role it plays in the community and also
you know proper uniformity so that it can be easily executed ongoing. So our next meeting we'll have three options and talk about the sign vendor tomorrow. We'll we'll we'll continue to the conversation. >> And I just want to confirm one last
thing. We do not want any kind of acknowledgement to anyone else who helped the project. We're saying that >> that's okay. >> Okay. >> Wait, what's that? >> Because it goes with the essence of a scout with with with the signs that have come before us, that one and Charlie's
all included. Thank you to some of the other groups that helped. So, I'm just wanted on record that we're saying that we're not looking to thank anyone else. We're just going with the template of the point of the project. The scout the year is dedicated essentially.
>> But are we >> But that's what we're saying. We're saying we're not >> Are we including the individual's name or we're not including >> we are to be the individual scout's name is absolutely not. >> So just so just just to clarify, it's going to be the um burough seal. It's going to have the scout seal on it. It's
going to have the name of the project, a one sentence either mission statement or point of the project. Um, and I have the scouts name and the year of the project and that will be on the template. Um, and we'll have it three different sizes. 5 by seven, 6 by eight, and 8 by 10 for the next governing body meeting for the council review.
>> So, it's only going to be a workshop then next meeting. Correct. >> Hey, Chris, real quick. The um the scout seal, is it oval? >> Yes, >> it is oval. All right. >> Leave this with you and I'll come back to you. >> No, no, that's fine. That's okay.
>> Let's take a picture of it. Picture. >> Cool. All right, let's move on to the PTA color run event request. Uh, this is by the PTA. They've done the color run in the past. The council has given their approval for the color run and they're
looking they probably haven't done it since before the pandemic. So, they're looking to restart this fundraiser. Uh, does anybody have any >> My only thing is just >> quick quick kudos. I love the form, >> right? that puts everything about it
like a one-stop shop. It makes it super easy. Love it. Fully supported >> and um is anybody here from the brand? >> Anything you'd like to add? >> Hi, Kelly. Kelly Guerrero 171 Oak Place.
Um just wanted to say yeah, we're trying to bring back the color run. We did do it last year. That was the first year back since the pandemic. Um, and then we're trying to kind of grow on it every year, make it more of a signature town event. We've been looking at some of the neighboring towns that have really successful big runs. Um, so we're trying
to bring this back and make it more of a signature annual town fundraiser. Um, and while we're here, we'd also like um to request permission to put up some signage around the town. Um,
specifically, we'd like to use either the current Durmer Dreams location or current farmers market location. Those will both be completed, I think, October 26 and November 8th. Um, so we could use one of those to put a banner with the color run. We have
a logo that we created last year that we'll be using annually, and we would put the location, the date, and the time of the event. Um, and then also 10 lawn signs that would be placed on with permission on uh some of the streets
around town with the homeowner permission as well as yours. Private property. Yeah. Homeowner position permission of you know some of like the more populated streets. >> What are the dates of proposing for the signage? um for the signage. Um since
we're looking at one of those locations, um looking back like two weeks prior to the event. So if we were to use the farmers market, we would wait for that sign to come down and go up maybe November 10th. Um if we use the the Durams, we can say November
10th for either location. And similar with the lawn signs. >> When would you start? >> When would we start the signage? >> Yeah, the November 10th. Um, sorry. That would be like the big location sign. The lawn signs we'd like to start sooner if possible. Maybe the week of October
27th. Just kind of looking at the calendar. Um, because we have we'd like to open our online sales soon after we've been given permission. We haven't started online sales yet. So, um, once we can open online sales, we'd like to have
them up. We need to close those at least two weeks prior to the event to get um we have t-shirts that going along with the event. >> Question um on the form one of the questions is who will attend? Is it fair haven only or open to outside of Fair
Haven? Is there do you that part wasn't answered. It just says prek to 8th grade. Is it >> okay? That's our target would be pre-K to 8th grade. >> Just Fair Haven. >> Fair Haven school. But I I think that if other towns would like to attend that would be great. I I would assume that
most of our audience would be um Fair Haven Public School FDs. >> Okay. >> And that's where we'll be >> we haven't in the past. I don't think we have advertised via sign school sponsored events like make it up harvest fest etc.
>> So this would be I assume this is already being marketed within the schools right separate like they Okay. So I I guess >> this is not a school sponsored event though because that would be governed by >> the board of ed. >> Um >> but PTA does harvest fest too and they also do
>> we love the spring fundraiser. I'm just I'm just saying like we haven't done this before. I'm just bringing it up. So this would be a little bit different, right? Because >> we've had PTA events before that have been marketed through the school for >> our community. We haven't necessarily put up signs.
>> Well, we but we the signs are different, but we do have the staircase which are the Oh, that's harvest fest. So, >> but harvest fest day, but we don't mark it. >> You know what I'm saying? >> And I point clarification. Any signs on
someone's property, we can't it's private, so it doesn't matter. So, we So, the sign approval doesn't that part doesn't matter. The only sign that we're really approving is the one at the entrance, >> right? And that's one thing I have a question about is I forget when we approve Derma Dreams.
What days were those approved for? I know. Isn't there a big event coming up? >> October 26th. >> Oh, no. She's saying it's coming down the 26th. >> I'm not positive exactly when it's coming down. The event that they're advertising for is October 26th. >> Okay. >> This would be after >> this would be after. >> Okay.
>> But dur the der sign is also temporary, right? Because of the farmers market sign. The farmers market location is the official assigned location. >> Dur is September 14th to October 26. >> Just looked at my answer.
>> I guess I'm just wondering why we need to if the students the main audience are the students and we're marketing to them. Do we need a sign for this? Like in other words, advertising to other towns that might be coming in.
Did you use a banner sign last year? >> No, we haven't. We're just trying to grow the event. Um, last year we had about >> I think we had somewhere around like 250 runners, which is great. Um, but again, like I said, we're trying to kind of bring it back and be more of a signature event and be a little bit more of a
successful fundraiser for the PTA >> as long as within the signage, you know, requirements. Um, and if it's at the the uh same location as the Durmer Dreams, which is coming down, you said October
26th. And then Farmers Market has one more event. >> Yeah. >> Is that in November? >> November 8th, you said, >> right? >> And when would your event be? >> Our event is November 22nd. >> So they're saying the test. >> They're looking at 10th through the 22nd. So no one would have that spot at
that point. Oh, >> I understand where Councilwoman Co is coming from though. Like where do we say yes and no to different events like now we're opening you're saying we're opening up our big >> key kiosk space or you know primary
space for PTA. I understand >> why you're asking this question. >> An observation I just think it's an important thing to know but >> you know this goes into zoning right because this is a land use type of application obviously not going before a land use board.
if we've approved it for Fair Haven Farmers Market is not only for Fair Haven. Yeah. >> And Derma Dream's obviously not for just Fair Haven. >> It's a great ide So we'd have to be careful. We can't we wouldn't be able to not deny the colors of
>> not not that not that you were bringing that up. What I'm saying is as far as spot zoning and you know making sure that >> to other students, right? >> It's also the location of the event. So it's especially pertinent to our event at Fairfield. >> Yes.
>> So you're you're just asking for the location coming from Red Bank into Fairaven. >> What about Ridge Road? >> I think it's on Ridge Road, right? The current >> on Bridge Road by Fairfield. It's like a >> And then about by Schwanker's pond. Did
you want that as well? >> Do you have your sign? >> Yeah. We only site right now. But >> the ridge road location was where we were looking. >> The one by Har fields is temporary. That dar sign. >> No, but the farmers market sign behind
it which is which the that will be. >> So there's two permanent little sign large banner sign location. >> There's there's the the large banner sign location is where the farmers market sign is. >> Correct. There's no >> there's one at fair. >> Yes.
Right now you have the derma one probably a couple feet away as the bar department. That's a temporary location. >> So can I do a motion? >> I have I have some questions though. >> Go. Sure. >> Um in in um under uh equipment requested
from the burrow um 10 tables for the race checkin and DJ. Have you talked to anybody about where you're going to get those tables? I've talked to DJ Breenidge of the department. Um, and he said that he
would kind of walk me through the site and make sure and that the tables would get delivered several days before from the ref department, I believe is what he said. And um, he would walk me through the site and give me the the a little bit of like the lay of the land of where
um, things can be set up considering the DJ needs power. So, he's going to arrange for the tables to be delivered and picked up. >> Yes. Yeah. I can look at the email. >> Chris, is that done through DPW? >> That is done. So, so DJ would put a work
order in to uh Nick at DPW and then it would be delivered. >> And so the burrow would pay for that. >> Well, it would be done during work hours. Um I don't believe we would have anything done during off hours. >> Okay. I mean, normally what we do is we drop it off, put it in place, they set it up, they tear it down, put it in the
same place, and they go pick it up. >> Correct. >> Keep it the standard. >> Yeah. We It wouldn't require over time for somebody to come in to get it. >> And then what about um um police and fire? >> Um we've contacted Chief McGovern to
request police um police presence at the event, similar to the presence that we had last year. Um we we're completely contained within very different fields. >> So they're all within fields. So there's no cost. We just said somebody go there
and check no closures. >> Yeah. You won't have to put any stuff but there's really no cost on us at all. >> And you're strictly a nonprofit, right? >> Strictly well PTF. >> Through the PTA. >> Through the PTA. >> Okay. You're not a for-profit
organization. >> My last question is what about trash? Did you talk to DJ about that? >> Um, similar to last year, we are going to contract lease management and I believe we pay a fee of $75 to um request trash removal from
>> that's coordinated through Suburban. >> Okay, great. >> Thank you. >> Great. >> Thanks. >> Oh, wait. >> You wanted to make a motion. >> Can I ask two more questions if you can? One, insurance. >> PTA PTA insurance would cover the use on public grounds. >> Yeah. >> So, no concerns there. And then
volunteers normally when we do like >> it's a public space so >> check and then like the volunteers like the volunteer forum rights like when we do third street trail the volunteers that are coming out to do it because it's in public space we have to they have to sign our volunteer way they're good >> no >> perfect
>> so I make a motion to approve the color run on November 22nd and allow them to put a sign up on bridge road >> correct >> she wanted but we have to >> No she said only the old bridge November November November 10th starting on the
November 10th >> second come down that day. >> When is the when is the next shop's fault? Why would I get on the >> Well, she did she did already made a motion. >> Sorry. >> Okay.
Thank you. So, sorry. I'll second discussion. >> Sure. the shops >> Saturday.
It's on Saturday the 29th. >> Your event, Kelly, is on November 22nd, >> right? >> So, I know that the business district would have signage planned for that. I believe over the years, yes, there
traditionally used signage. Um, we do have two sign locations on River Road, one on Ridge. Sorry guys, I have to think out loud. Um,
aren't there two on ridge? Can we just say that? >> Two on ridge, one on river road. >> Two on. There's two on river. >> There's only one on. >> Well, they have right now there's there's a temporary one for durmers and then there's the back. We have two signs overlapping, but normally it's just >> normally one. Correct.
>> Allison, do you know how and I'll just say Carolyn Ferguson is here and I personally don't recall if one week is an adequate amount of time for the business district to advertise shop small. But because there's two sign
locations, can we let that play out and understand that there might be two signs up at the same time >> and make the request, >> right? She's only want She only wants one of the two. So, one of the two. >> She only wants Ridge Road. So, why don't you take Riverwork >> and split it
>> and then have the second and then they can have if we if we're worried about having two up on Ridge Road, then have them just take up the last week on Ridge Road if there are two sides. >> I don't have two signs. >> So, you made the motion. >> I second it. >> November 23rd.
>> November 23rd. >> I second it. So, do we all need to is it a vote by vote or is it I or an A? >> It's all in favor. >> I think
next order is the Westland registration sign request. >> This is why we need a sign. We got all these from coming. You can't stand. >> Yeah. So they're supposed to Are they looking for a big sign there? No. >> Is anyone here? >> It's um
Is anybody here about wrestling? >> No. >> So they're requesting permission to post wrestling signs when in town. >> Eight of them. >> Yeah. To promote signups for the upcoming season. The practice begins on November 1st. And they would like to
place the same eight signs in the same general location as in prior years. Um they would go up November one and be removed by the end of November or sooner if we would prefer. >> Is it the the workshop says October 15th
to November 1st, >> right? >> You approve it tonight. Oh, not email. That's different. That's Betsy read it correctly. However, it's different. >> It is different on the workshop. Um >> we have the
>> are the are they generally on properties like property? >> Yeah, he does this routinely every year. >> He understood. >> That seems like a long time to have signs on public property. >> Two October 15th, November 1st. It's two weeks.
>> It's two weeks. >> Oh my god. I've got November. >> No, he's saying >> Yeah. end of November. >> Yeah, >> six weeks. >> His registration is till November 1st. I'll remove >> I'll remove them
October 15. Okay. And I told him these are the time frames and fine. >> I'll make a motion to approve as is 8 15 October to one. >> Second clarify that. >> Okay. Uh, next we have the notification
committee update. Um, I do have a Susan is not here. Uh, she asked me to mention a few things. I think everybody's got copies of it. Um, the dedication for benches and trees. Um, we'd like to replace the and because they're not
repairable, the benches in Memorial Park and in the pocket parks. Um they're also proposing benches at 21 Fairhaven Road hoping that those benches would replicate the benches at the Jormy Park
that are made out of stone. Also any of the benches um that will be placed will be standard benches that will be identical to what benches are existing now in Fairb. Uh the beautifification committee is also proposing
um with Sherry's approval and recommendation uh trees along the fence at Report Park, the fence that separates the park from Cickle School and alternating the trees with lowmaintenance bushes. And Sherry has made several recommendations as to what
the appropriate uh plant material will be. And lastly, uh the buoy tree. They are going to do the buoy tree again. They'll be selling booies for uh residents to decorate and they will be lit on December 5th.
>> I saw a couple things. Um I really want to see cut sheets on the proposed benches. I really say one that's not adequate enough for me. I want to see the cut sheets. I want to know the size. I want to know the materials. I know we just powerwash the benches in Memorial
Park. So um before we deem them the ones Yeah. So some of them are by the way some of them are and um anyway so the costumes will tell us dimensions materials >> did you one second um haven't we already
approved that the benches I think it's already been approved hasn't come here >> last we oh maybe last >> well we didn't approve actually the benches >> it's been it was approved a couple of years ago when this first surfaced
>> a while back started tree and bench. >> Yeah. When we when we reinstituted the tree and bench program, it was already >> Well, you're talking about >> the beautifification. >> I want to see the questions. I want to know I want to know. >> But when did the beautifification room start? Just only recently. So, how do
you approach a couple years? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And and they're doing it with the foundation. I think where I'm getting a little stuck. I I love I do like the idea of benches, but like we're giving the Eagle Scales this much and then who's getting the dedications on the
benches? Who's paying for the benches? The burrow. Correct. >> Yeah. No. No. It's all it's all donations. >> So then who like who gets first right to get on those benches? Like >> anybody that >> So there's going to be like >> So like but we put it out there. So five
families Yeah. get >> Yeah. That's exactly how it's worked. >> And the the signage is smaller than on those beaches than what was proposed. >> Yeah. >> It's just like the when we blanket planted trees on Thirst Street Trail, it was first come, first serve, right?
>> Yeah. >> But no, but there's no limit to the there's more trees can go up like >> there's no limit to the number of of trees or benches. >> Well, so that I think there should be a limit to benches. We're going to have benches all over. Like we're I mean I think that gets to the point of like okay now we don't want little signs but then we're like ah throw benches
everywhere. I'm okay with benches. It's just I feel like we're being like really uneven about what we're allowing and what we're not allowing. >> I'm just well unfortunately I think it's already been approved. >> Well it's up for discussion. So the discussion is happening right now about
we are talking about putting impermanences in public spaces. These are design decisions. It's based on the program and how the space is used. And I some of the benches we have are wonderful. Some of the benches are not holding up. When I ask for the spec sheets, I think that's just basic due
diligence. I would like to see it, too. >> I would. >> Yeah. And and they might just be the bench the same benches we have, but I still want to see the information on them. >> That's what I'm asking for. And DJ has that because DJ was going within one quarter. >> Okay. Then I would like to see that.
>> I will ask. >> Yeah, I'll coordinate with DJ tomorrow. um >> and have him send you. >> Yeah, we'll we'll we'll distribute that to the council. >> And then the trees um what trees are we picking? Are they native? Like how who's deciding what trees? You said you're
talking to Sher. >> She decided she decided which trees. >> Well, it's all procedurally >> the shake tree commission's jurisdiction over trees and public lands. So I suggest that this take a turn over there
and let them weigh in. They've got a resource guide for natives and share advises the shade tree commission. So >> once the trees have been decided upon because she gave several choices >> once they dec look at their budget and they've decided on the trees they will
then send it over to the shade tree. They can't do that until they know exactly what trees they chose. >> The shade tree is capable of helping to advise on tree selection. is actually resources. >> They want us
the beautifification committee. >> The beautifification committee does need to go to the shape. >> But if the beautifification committee is sponsoring, you need to go to the shape. >> Yeah, but it's on public property though. It's on it's on bur property. So
like but >> yeah, it's regular. >> You know what? You need to I'll ask Susan to come to the next meeting. sheet and give you an explanation. >> Um, she's saying a perfect tree versus a little sign. It just
>> again like I just feel like we're like, "Oh yeah, throw the trees anywhere." We're not going to have way. >> We're growing trees in the tree. I agree. Sorry, that was like a little clarity on procedure. Gentlemen, >> I'd love to know where that's written. >> Well, there's an ordinance that
regulates the spoken responsibility as to shade tree. So, did you want to clarify some of that for us? >> Well, I mean, we have to look at what are we trying to accomplish right here, right? >> Tonight, >> no. What's what's what's the request?
What's what's request? >> There is no request. So, there's there's >> no I so there's many right unification committee. We're talking about slation of benches, right? That's already been
previously approved, right? And then we have the shade you know I guess the shade trees that you want are we looking to in you know plant them or what would you like us to give you guidance? >> So so generally with just to go back on the tree sorry generally what we have
done in the past anytime we've done tree plantings we have gone to our certified tree expert um to determine where that tree is going to be successful. Um obviously as shade tree commission does have jurisdiction over the planting of trees. However, they are volunteers appointed and there may be members on
that board that don't have the technical knowledge. So, that's why we hire professionals to make that determination. So, as far as planting locations, even with this 250th tree um that's going over in the uh fair fields, we had the discussion with Sherry to determine what would be a location where
that tree be as the governing body is going to make the ultimate decision. >> Well, in collaboration with the shade tree commission, Shar is a technical adviser to the shade correct. Yeah, she's advising to the shade tree commission and the and the burrow. Um, but ult but ultimately again the
governing body is the one that's going to make that determination. The shade tree commission could make a determination to say they want trees in this in a bunch of these locations, but if the governing body doesn't go with their recommendation, they have the right to do so. So >> here's where I'm coming from. They have the university management plan which is
function of the commission um a free inventory tool that helps track you know >> arbor pro >> right exactly which should hopefully get better as they're identifying mapping and tracking trees that are
>> Yeah. Arbor crow system is actually very I even you know just a quick anecdote here the recent plantings that we did with um DPW and the and the PD we just uploaded those schematics and that plan into Arbor Pro. So so that's something I mean we're talking the last couple months that's that was just recently
uploaded in Arbor Pro um so that we can track that. So we have and and that's a successful system and that does help as well and Sherry has access to that. Porchinsky administrates it and that helps us determine you know where areas but obviously again a lot of it comes down to not necessarily areas that don't have trees areas where those trees will
be successful. So especially whatever species we're >> in the group helps to maintain that inventory and improve it doesn't necessarily defer to them and any kind of authority for permission to do it as here.
>> Yes. but maintaining their connection to whatever >> nature connected when we did all the land. >> Yeah. So, so, so if I could just chime in here, one, Betsy, very much appreciate the updates. I think a next steps if Susan Sorson can come back,
right? Give us a plan of how to reinstitute the dedicated bench program, right? This revamp, reinstitute. So, what's the plan to do that for us to implement on for the benches if you be good to know the exact locations? And then for the trees, if Susan had to test the beautifification to coordinate with
STC so they can come back, it can be a coordinated effort. I think that would be the best next step. >> We're also seeing the buoy tree here that was approved at the last meeting. Not even back on the trees for a second build. I just want to keep in mind that we're going to putting in a new playground there and there's going to be
a lot of work done at that site. So I don't know. Would you want to plant trees before the playground? you know, we probably want to plant trees after um you know, at that at that point or at least if we're going to plant trees there, we want to make sure that they're nowhere near the um you know, the area where the
playground. >> So, we should indeed hear that. And then on the benches, we shouldn't put benches at 21 Fair Road yet until the plan is this was just an update. It's not asking permission. It's not it's not saying we're definitely going to get this just
things >> as Susan prepares the exact locations and the approval that she wants. My only feedback to her is don't think that's my favorite yet until >> Nobody's going to do anything until I I'd love to see the benches. So I I mean I'll go over there. >> I already I'll have that emailed out to
the council tomorrow. >> Want to see the stone benches? on the north at the >> cut sheet will give us what it looks like but yeah exactly dimensions >> yeah I'll have all that out to the
govern as well >> and during the 250th uh they have several events that they're considering um and within the next month they will um have a calendar proposed with uh event proposal dates so that will be
aail available for the entire community. >> I have a question about the 250. That's also I'm excited for all those things. Have there been meetings for like is there there's a 250 committee? Correct. >> And have they all >> three? Okay. Okay.
>> Am I allowed to like Are we going to talk about the other piece of the updated email or we just >> what would >> Oh, that you know that neither Marie nor Jacob Ruth are here. >> Okay. >> So, I think we have to we have to um
>> defer that until they're here because >> the location and the trail that was approved and done. We just want conversation on what >> not on the agenda, but >> we have the email on it. I don't know if they wanted to. >> I was just following up because she even sides.
>> Yeah, it's 9 by 12, but we don't know the content, right? >> Why don't we wait until we have all the information that we got dive into it? >> Betsy, can I just throw something out there? A lot of people ask for October Fest just as they're talking. >> Not this year. Not I know. Not this year. Is that on the planned for next
year? and uh apologize for retardiness. Uh moving along, we're at 2025 best practices. >> Yep. So the uh best practices survey that we're required to do every year uh through um division of local government
services. Um Nancy Allison and I, we had a conference meeting the other day, completed it. Uh Nancy did a webinar, submitted it. Um, our current score, and if you take a look, there's rubric scoring sheets here. Our current score was a 41. Um, so any municipality that
scores a 32 or better um will have no uh state aid withheld 41. So I say we're in good shape. So again, big thank you to uh Nancy, our CFO, and Alison, our clerk uh for making sure that our that everything our best practices are
continued to score high and uh we're in good shape. And I'm assuming to get a better score. It's not like you get more a >> I wish. I wish. I wish. Great job. >> Just made a motion to >> have a motion to accept as second.
>> All in favor? >> I. >> Anyone opposed? >> Thank you. Next up, proposed amendments to the storm water management. >> Awesome. Okay. Um Rich is online. Uh so is Christina? Um
>> is Nick here? He his son's birthday or his kids. >> Happy birthday. >> But but Nick has been involved in every step along the way and everything. Although if I can just give an update on this. >> Of course. Of course. >> Okay. So, um I want to kind of put all
the data points out there and then Christina, we we'll get into Q&A back and forth. So back in 2022, um the zoning board identifies two pain points in the burrow code. One is
related to rights. Um the second is related to a loophole in stormwater hat management specific to minor development. In 2023, the governing body closed the loophole with riparian rights and went through that process. Concurrent to that, we turned our attention to the loophole in stormwater
management. So, in fall of 23, we put together working across every component of the burrow, planning, zoning, um, uh, environmental, um, a whole slew of different entities
across the entire burrow to put together a draft ordinance that would look to close the loophole specific to it was renovations at the time. So, it's not being called minor development because a renovation is considered minor development. So, in 2023, all this was presented to the GB. Um then in 2024
um what we did was we quote unquote uh took a real use case of me and and looked at applying all the storm water ordinance components for the minor development. Uh so I worked side by side with Nick Pinsky on this um in the
zoning office and went through the entire process to ensure that storm water was addressed. um in spring 2025, so seven months ago, brought back all the information to the governing body and received the blessing from the governing body to to work with
all the stakeholders to ensure we could put together uh an updated proposed ordinance. So, that kind of summarizes where we're at. What was sent out, what everybody has in front of them, um is is two things, and I'm going to work
backwards. The first is uh uh and kudos to both Rich and Nick who who looked at months and months and months of data um is a is a proposed updated uh application. Um it's a department of engineer application. One of these is given out every day as of today. And
what that does is is it centralizes what a what an enhanced process will look like to storm water management um specifically the minor development. The second document that was sent out was the uh proposed changes to the stormwater ordinance. Um what it all is
specific to is minor development. Um the key folks that we've worked on along the entire way again just to go through this burough engineer uh we worked with Nick Pinsky director DPW but he's also uh an expert storm water zoning board
planning board land use environmental commission zoning office zoning board engineer we worked with obviously burough council but really the goal was um to to leverage all the expertise what's very important to note throughout all of this is that there were three
guiding documents. Um the watershed institute has an enhanced storm water ordinance. Uh New Jersey puts out storm water best man best management practices sometimes referred to as DMP. And then the DP has all storm water best
management practices and whatnot. Um so the innovation premium here meaning us closing this loophole isn't something new, right? addressing minor development exists large throughout. Um so with that
um one one to get any questions on that and then two if there's any questions from from both Rich and Christina um um would like to do that because what we would like to do is um uh potentially cast a vote at the end to to introduce
at the next >> at the next meeting next meeting >> and then put it in place the meeting after. Well, you have to the process is you have to introduce it, then it goes to the planning board. It's got to go through that, then it comes back, and then it could be adopted. >> We have good timing for that. >> We do. Yes, sir.
>> Um, >> I have a couple questions. >> Yeah. If it's if it's specific to like that process, let me know. If it's specific to this, I'll defer to Rich and Christina on it. >> Uh, I'm going to submit my questions to Rich in the absence of Nick. I'll just
say if we need information that only he can give us, we I mean we'll take that as a comp, but he's a stormwater administrator. >> So So Chris can take those questions to Nick after the meeting and if you know
if there's some issue obviously that can be addressed immediately. >> Yeah, we can address it. I just want to point out right that that Nick was involved throughout every step along the way, right? All the way dating back to 22. The only reason he's not here tonight is because of his family commitment. >> Yeah. >> And and
>> however, I haven't had an opportunity to submit my questions today. So, I'm just gonna reference that as a starting point for where I'm at. Like, you mentioned minor development and I want to clarify.
Um, you said renovation would qualify as minor development >> in addition. So, if you there's a there's another document that was sent out. So >> well I recognize the minor films as an addition involves some sight disturbance and so on. renovation. Yes.
>> No. Unless it's not minor. >> Correct. The reason I said renovation was because my house included open edition renovations. >> Well, for the public here, they should understand this. And renovation wouldn't trigger. >> Sure. >> So, if you just if you just give me
>> trigger, wouldn't it renovation doesn't change that? Let's ask. >> Well, hang on. If if >> look at the definition >> 100%. But if you're going to if you're going to reference me specifically just that, right? It's a new dwelling, right? And there's a certain minimum square footage that exists, right? It's a new
dwelling where you keep it on the same foundation, impervious service over 400 square feet, a swimming pool, a retaining wall, and fill over 10 cubic yards. Those are the six categories enriched. You could take it from there that Rich and Nick put together based on minor development period. >> Are these your definitions? They're in
here. Or is it part of the best practices from the focus? Thanks. You want to go through it real quick? >> Yes. Good evening. So, one of the couple things um off of Councilman Drew's uh discussion is we want to simplify the
process for everyone. Not everybody coming to the land use office is a developer. It could be a homeowner, it could be an applicant, it could be a small contractor, etc. So what we did was we took a look at all the type of projects that have been occurring
throughout the burrow whether it's a new dwelling, a swimming pool, reconstruction of a house on an existing foundation. Um you had mentioned renovation addition even adding fill to your property.
The reason um we're looking to add all these types of work under minor work for minor development is right now we do comply with D. We don't have a definition for minor development. So
what this does, it captures those types of project projects that we typically see in Fair Haven and allow us to administratively review it, approve it, inspect it, and eventually sign off on it, but also making the process simple
for the applicant when they submit. We want the ordinance to read very easy where, okay, I'm going to be putting in the swimming pool. I need a grading plan. I need a storm water management plan. Check. or if somebody calls the front desk upstairs and says, "I'm doing
this type of work. How many square feet are you adding?" Oh, we're adding 500 square feet. That's going to trigger storm water management and a grading plant. So, we me we we tried to look at some of these thresholds. Now granted, we've been encouraging developers to do
this for years, as Drew had mentioned, especially with a lot of the new homes, swimming pools, or or more larger additions. But this allows us to have a mechanism in place, like I said, administratively to do this. The the the
key is the 400 square feet. So, it's 400 square feet of new impervious. So, for example, if you're going to build, say, a detached garage that's 250 square feet, a driveway leading up to that, and
then maybe redoing a back walkway or some other type of improvement in your backyard, most likely that's going to trigger 400 square feet, and that will require a storm water management plant. Um, it's new and pvious. If you were
looking to reconfigure a patio and add a section of driveway or or whatever the case, a walkway or redo a front, you know, or build a front porch, if that cumulative amount exceeds 400 square feet, you need to submit a
grading plan to our office for review. Now, the one key thing we should talk about is Drew mentioned the word BMP, best management practice. Not every BMP is a drywall. We are not necessarily encouraging installation of drywalls.
We're encouraging low impact type work, whether it's a rain garden, it could be a vegetative strip, it could be it could be a swale, could be a grass swale to divert water and soak up some of that water. very you know low impact um coste
effective measures understanding that eventually these property owners have to maintain these these um BMPs as well. So these are the types of measures that we're looking to put into place. I created that form that's in front of you that has the
check boxes based on the type of work. I incorporated all the general type questions that we we would like to see answered. for example, is tree removal um part of the app, you know, part of the scope of the work? Um are you within
an environmentally sensitive area that may trigger DP? What that does is it pushes the burden back on the applicant to answer those questions to get the information they need before they come to us. Because what happens is a lot of times they come in the office and we're end we end up spending hours guiding
them and and showing them how to do it and going out to their property. And I understand that's that's that's how a small town works, but um there are other ways to to push it back on the applicant to um to get the information they need
to have a successful project. >> Thank you for positioning it that way, by the way. That I thought was a great explanation. Thank you. That's very helpful. Um is one of the definitions that would trigger this a percentage of sight disturbance
It's no, we're not basing it off percentage because it's it would be too difficult for the average homeowner to try to calculate their existing say building coverage or lot coverage or impervious coverage as a percent. We thought and and based on the watershed
institute and some other model ordinances that towns similar to ours have done, they keep it to a square footage. If someone wants to build a 40 by10 patio, that's 400 square feet. If somebody wants to build a 20 by 20
garage, that's 400 square feet. If someone wants to build um double the size of their driveway and it exceeds 400 square feet, then it triggers that. Keep it simple. Um keep it a threshold and and I think the number is a good
balance. A lot of towns have been doing um as low as 250 square feet. I think based on what we've seen and looking back at all the applications say in the last 5 to 10 years that 400 kind of is
right right in the middle there. One thing to note, right, Bridge, that we looked at was balancing the responsibility of every resident to own some ownership of storm water management, but not burdening them burdening them with too
much time and costs that isn't commensurate with that, right? So, finding that balance something that was looked at and then obviously using the real data. Um, I want to also come back because the the application that him and Nick updated, what's awesome about it is that it's
actually simplifies the process. If if the governing body remembers in previous years, all information was scattered, right? And it wasn't clean. It wasn't centralized. It wasn't a matter that's easy to digest. So, that was another aspect, right, Re? We had the resident
in mind and the experience that they would have to go through balanced with the responsibility we're looking for everybody to hold. What it also does, it takes the burden off the zoning officer and it puts it back into the engineering department because ultimately we're keeping track of the site work, the
disturbance at a property, um how things are progressing at as a at a project and it incorporates it all into that one application that you have. I even I even included hyperlinks so
when it's online when somebody goes on, you know, at any given time, they can pull that up and they can actually click on that link and it'll put them right to the street opening permit process or ordinance or whether or not you need to
get a flood development permit or what triggers um tree conservation and removal, things of those things of that nature. where all those things kind of need to be captured somewhere. We're not necessarily the project manager of the all of that. We have to
ensure that they're complying and seeking those prior approvals prior to starter construction. >> Just a couple more questions and I suspect there's more. Um, when do you anticipate the state
releasing the next wave of mandated updates to storm water? So, um, when what was the question? When do I anticipate what the updates? >> When do when should we anticipate
um then the next wave of mandated storm water up? So >> we we just did our we just did our update last year which complies with the latest and we do know D is obviously continuously reviewing and working on
updates and and changes to their ordinances. We do feel that this will come at some point. Um, and that's why we're trying to get ahead of it, especially for, you know, a small town where we do have a lot of minor development and our projects don't necessarily fall into
that definition of major development. And looking at what other towns of our size and character have done, I think this is a perfect way to get ahead of it. We haven't heard anything specifically from D when they're going to release the next round, but we do
know they're they are working on these types of things. >> My last question for at this point is um is this anticipated to be just this 400 square foot trigger just for
residential? >> Uh no, it would also be for any type of project. So if you know and and this is something that we've talked to at both the land use committee
uh we're starting to talk to about it at our downtown committee meetings that we're having. So uh we've also talked to the environmental commission the green team. So we're trying to incorporate all these different groups um and getting feedback from them. But
for a you have to go back to look at that definition of exempt development and usually uh commercial business properties whether or not they fall within exempt development or if they have to go before a planning board or in
some cases a zoning board. But yeah, it would be for those types of projects as well. It wouldn't be if like a pro if they wanted to mill and pave, you know, doing repair work and things of that nature.
It would be for uh increases. >> So, >> can I play off of one of those things? Um what would be some of the exemptions? I think that was what I was wondering like what would make someone exempt? like what would be some of the
>> So in the ordinance there there's a provision in the ordinance where if the design engineer for that applicant can't figure out a way to provide something some type of storm water
management whether water table's too high whether you know the grading on the property is such that's you know it's going to create adverse effects to the adjacent property owner I highly doubt that that's going to come
up. You know, you know, if one out of a hundred that that would be a lot. So, we just need something in the ordinance to allow us to administratively wave that type of requirement. And then there's a calculation, I believe, Christina,
that's in there that if they if they need a waiver, there's a there's a fee. So it's they're kind of seeking like a variance administratively through my office. >> Yeah. And that was so that was another question though. The fee I know it it really didn't seem like it was spelled
out the >> it's not yet >> and I wonder if that's something we do need to spell out a little clearer in this. >> We um we have it in as as a concept right now to workshop. We haven't we haven't developed a schedule
>> for costs for that. have that in here to pass the ordinance though because we do mention it. We just didn't want to specify. >> Right. >> Right. >> Yeah. >> So, um can I take a step back though? Thank you, um for all the work that everyone put into this. I specifically
am very happy to read it. I told uh Drew that I kind of read it like excited and happy for everyone in the future, but also sad that this wasn't in place a couple years ago. But thank you for all of this. Um can I ask a couple questions? Is that okay? And I'm sorry
to be a little bit specific, but I think everyone knows where that's coming from. So um overall, and this might be more for um Christina, but I want to make sure that we've mentioned minor de every minor development has been added to all
the definitions. And I couldn't go through with a fine tooth comb, but it seemed like minor development may have been missing from some of the definitions. like some of them only applied to major but then minor was mentioned in later in the definition but
the the title said for major renovation. So I think we just need to >> well that be a little bit you know but I know that there was some changes but I did notice a couple places where it wasn't as consistent as I think it should it did needed to be. Um this is
kind of very specific. the county review agency under that definition. It did say county board of chosen freeholders. I'm pretty sure this came from the original one like you base this off of something in the past, but are they still freeholders? >> So, I think that has to change, which is
random, but county review. >> Um, the definitions also I think we're missing or might be helpful to have some of the best practices, the suggestions we give definitions for them. So like blue blue roof if maybe we could add the
definition for that and a couple of those like are best practices just describe what they are to people because I think a lot of those like I actually had to look up that was one I wasn't as familiar with. So >> Christina Rich we can pull the definitions from the PMP directly right
to pull them in the definition. We can yeah we can >> we can either put it >> in the definitions or we could put it in where we list examples of BMPPS. I >> mean my only thing is I'd much rather refer to it because what happens is
these definitions evolved >> and so the last thing just of what we've done is allowing this the ordinance become stale. So, what we've done before in the past with ordinances and is reference where they can be found and whatnot so that if the state updates it, it automatically reflects in there.
>> I'm okay with that. I think it would be helpful for people to be able to reference the definitions though. >> And then just to respond to your other comment, Christina, we already know that there are what we would call diminish dimminimous changes such as updating and making sure minor development is spelled
out correctly and conjoined and when it's introduced, all of that will be taken care of prior. Correct. That's correct. And cross references between sections within the ordinance because there was some rearranging and additions and um exclusion. So all the cross cross references and amendments changes will
be um revised and finalized prior to introduction. >> On that note, the sequences is that pending the adoption then chapter 23 >> is another ordinance that needs to be updated to align with this. Yeah, because we had talked about that. I just want to make sure that there are no
other ordinances that do have need this definition or change, you know, like the definitions are the same for minor and major element. >> Um, >> Alison, >> this one is for uh Rich. >> I don't see somewhere in this ordinance
that would capture the issue. So, like, bless you. If someone's finding that their basement is flooding and they make changes that then say they put out fluid that now they're
going down to someone's yard, you know, like so I've seen it where they, you know, have it come out and now it's going straight onto someone else's yard, >> right? Like a sub. >> That's like a sub pump. Not >> it's not. Yeah, it's not allowed, but I've definitely seen it. So I don't know
how that where that gets captured or gets caught or >> so some pumps typically fall under the plumbing sub code of the building department. But if a sump pump is
included in a construction project of one of those described on that sheet, they need to show the discharge line and how they're um where they're putting that water. So that that's on that great that's on that
one sheet that says grading plan checklist and it specifically calls out >> identified. I I guess more like would nothing would be triggered if someone's just making changes to their basement that they now are just getting flooding
in. Is I know I'm being very specific, but this keeps h >> Can I give an example? Yeah. >> Okay. Arbitrary example. Um I just did my house. Um my neighbor does something and all of a sudden I get flooded into my crawl
space and then I need to add either a French drain or a system. Is that the type of example? >> So Rich, that would be a very specific example, but that's let's use that to answer our question. >> So the hypothetical is you live next door to somebody that put in some type
of subsurface drainage system that is now causing a an issue either on your property or in your basement or crawl space >> or water table rise. You know, >> that one's a little bit That one's a little bit tougher because they're affected, but but if you have if it's an
adverse adverse effect from another neighbor, right? So, this is hypothetical. This does not happen, but I'm going to use my neighbor's example, right? So, I live at 77 Cater. 79 Cater does something and then all of a sudden my address 77 seedater starts getting
water in the crawl space. The only way for me to solve that is either a French drain or a sub pump or some other approved mechanism. In that instance, your question is >> what? >> So >> have to file for any >> if we're notified,
>> if we're notified, code enforcement would go out to take a look at the complaint. They would try to figure out and determine if they can where the issue lies. And honestly, most of those issues are
issues between two neighbors. It's not a it's not a project that came before engineering that would have been reviewed and signed off on and inspected. So, it's a uh it's a neighbor to neighbor and I don't know if
>> uh the burough attorney wants to chime in on that, but that's that's how those have tipp are typically handled. >> And and Rich, the goal of this I want to be careful here. The goal of this is to
prevent disputes from bubbling up to the burrow. That is one >> aspect. >> I don't want to go >> also to help people not flood. >> That's the number one. But the number two is is the lack of ambiguity has caused
>> friction still ambiguous. >> It's to push the burden back on the applicant. whether it's a homeowner, a builder, whatever, to manage their storm water runoff. >> Yeah. >> And and to deal with it within their
property. That's that's what we're looking to do. >> Okay. Um could you also speak to pitch? So I know that there it talks about like 2% pitch away from buildings, but also where does like rating of new properties
fall? Is that not even part of this? And that's part of another zoning ordinance. >> So standard practice is 2% or or even a more standard practice is um 6 in of fall over 10 ft. Now understanding not
every property has 10 feet of sideyard to achieve that. So, the purpose of the grading plan is they have to submit a grading plan and we could see and they'll show flow hours and they're going to they're going to provide all that information with with spot
elevation so we can review that to see where the um the runoff comes away from the foundation. Now, granted, we also have in our land use section, you can you can only have so much foundation exposed. So
that also helps with with this as well. So you're not going to have, you know, it it's it all kind of goes back to the land use definitions on how you calculate building height, how you calculate your first floor elevation,
and all of that gets incorporated into that plan. And they need to show all that information. So, we're not going to see someone stick a house out of the ground and then have, you know, 3 ft of pitch coming off the foundation. It's
not that's that's not what we're going to see. >> What What about a street though? I mean, not to be specific, but specifically like behind my house, they raised it like about five feet, but it wasn't that wouldn't have been dictated by foundation because there weren't houses.
There was just a street created. So that's an >> but again where is that captured that someone like that goes >> that goes all that obviously something like that would go before a planning
board for for subdivision review. So, it's if it's a standalone house, um they're held they they have certain restrictions that they can only build to and they're held to average grade, building height, setbacks,
and also um they need to incorporate they they need to fit into that puzzle of all the existing properties around them because that's the other thing we ask for. We ask for elevations on adjacent properties now where we never did that. so that the surveyors would go
out and stop at the property line and then we wouldn't know what was happening next door because we wouldn't have that data and information. So >> what you're saying is that what happened that can't happen because they would be at this point the elevations would have
been caught would not be allowed at this point. >> Today's ordinances are much more Yes. restrictive. Yeah. >> And again I'm not trying to be but like I don't I want to make sure that's still not happening. Um, okay. So, >> I just double click on that real quick. >> And I'm glad you're bringing that up
because three years ago, right, we we set out to address and hit multiple levers, right? We used to laugh at the word levers, right? But we had multiple stormwater levers, right? Whether it was the upgrades to infrastructure at Colonial Smith, right? The work that we did on pants, right? The work that we
did at PDCC, right? It's we recognized, right, and I'm >> personally connected with that because I remember sitting outside three years ago with you, right? And all that like you have to pull as many levers as possible,
right? And so this is another one. And what we've seen when we pulled our levers is we've reduced the impacts, right? >> I didn't flood so this last but it's because of all the different levers that we did. So thank you. Um, okay. Definition. minor development. It says
means means any development. So I think there's a double means. She's a very good writer. Um >> really uh so then Christina 30-14.3 >> get there. >> 30-14
>> I'm sorry. Can you say one more time? 30- >> 30-14.3 check. >> Okay. Um I found there was it talks about for a major
minor development net increase 400 square ft. Sorry. There we go. For a major development require apply. Why is this only in place for minor developments? because there's a section in the beginning of the ordinance, believe it's
one of the first sections that addresses just major developments. Okay, that's what I thought. Okay. And then sorry, um I found 30-14.3 design informance. It says new that whole thing
about like any new adoption of this ordinance. I found that all to be confusing. Um, >> sorry here. >> Are you in the definition section?
>> No, hold on. Sorry, I was doing this on the plane, so I was doing it on my phone and it was hard to read here. Let's see. Sorry, it was under B. Here we go. The standard. Okay. The standards in this section apply to new, major, and
minor developments and are intended to minimize the impact of storm water runoff on water quality and water quantity in receiving water bodies and maintain ground recharge. The standards do not apply to to new or ma major or minor development to the extent
alternative design and performance standards. I just found this whole thing to be very confusing. Could you explain it? and I don't know if it needs to be rewritten, but can you explain that one to me? >> So, this is a provision from the D NJD
standard um stormwater management ordinance that we passed back last year. The only updates that I've made are to add the minor development addition. Um I think basically what it's saying is that if there is another plan um that follows
NJD rules then this or this ordinance does not apply and it can follow the plan that's already been approved by the D. >> Got it. >> I mean Rich can maybe speak more to that if he if he knows but it's >> Yeah, that is true. Yes. Hey, Prince,
can you give something tangible though on that? Like I'm not like an example, an address, like something where that where where that popped up. I don't know if you're allowed to do that and single somebody out with that, but >> um honestly, it's hard for me to look at the ordinance and the Zoom at the same
time. So, I don't have the document printed. So, >> okay. likely in a situation where public property is being developed and it this ordinance is applicable, but there's a larger water quality management plan with the state or that follows other
department rules, then this would um it would this would be bypassed and it would just follow that. That's something that I can think of um just off the top of my head, but I don't have a concrete example off off hand. >> Okay. Um, this one's for Rich. Huck 14
um means an area which within which water drains to particular receiving surface water body, also known as a subwaterhed. Can you just give me a couple examples of where that exists here in Baraven? Does that exist?
>> You're muted. Rich >> still muted. >> I know. Sorry, trying to find it. Um, what section are you reading in the ordinance? >> It's the definition. Um, >> 14, but it was in under development. Um,
I don't remember. It was under something. It's It's fine. It's not that big a deal. >> I'd have to scroll through. I mean, it's >> We can talk after. You can explain that to me. >> That's fine. Um 14.
>> It's good to have it in there though. >> No. Yeah. >> Even if we don't have >> Well, that's why like in the next one, same like do we have any trash racks? Out of curiosity. >> Yes. >> Okay. Um
so under 30-14.8. Oh, sorry. You don't have in front of you. safety standards for storm water management bases. >> Yes. Can you explain A and B? >> And also just uh Christina B's alignment
is all it's just like all the way left >> 30 14.8. >> So again, these >> I see. Oh, sorry. >> You know what? I think it was just on my funnel when it came up. It looks fine here. >> So formatting is fine, but still question on A and B. And Christine, I
think you were going to say this was based on the last updates from D. >> Yeah, there's been no changes to >> where that question. >> Anyone else have questions? I think I might be okay. While you're looking, I
just wanted to add um as the as one of our require requirements as stormwater coordinator, we need to do an education component every year and certify um you know education and awareness for
storm water management. There is a point system that that's rated in the annual report that I submit to the DP. So, we get certain points for things that are on our website, literature that we provide, but one of the things we're going to be
working with with the environmental commission is doing an environmental piece with them. Um, and then hold on a second. Sorry, my um so we're hoping to do something next month. I'm going to be going to one of
their meetings and talking to them about this update and then providing some education and awareness for these types of projects >> on that and well maybe this is for the land use board as well but um will that
be kind of the user friendly or property owner friendly examples of some of these basic I don't want to call them DIY but some of those lowlevel strategies Jesic views like you were talking about swells and
rain gardens. >> That's the intent is to try to encourage that type of you know those types of small projects >> and then also um you know do an educ compon and and an education component of
why this is important. You know I would love to do an initiative like I looked at some of the other states in the northeast and they they have something that's called soak up the rain. That's what we're trying to do. were trying to soak up the rain on your property and manage it. So, these are these types of
things that we're looking to do. Um, but you're right, either through land use committee, uh, environmental commission, green team, even at some of our special events, having a table, just having a table there with literature, flyers,
examples, um, and just start the conversation and then continue it. >> I love it. I think we actually have some residents who would self- select to do some or they're looking to solve a problem in their property and they just
don't know what to do. >> I'm I'm really supportive of that. I have um two more questions. >> I was going to actually make a motion to introduce it the next meeting. Um,
so I'm looking at the application that you've the draft application you put together, page two, grading plan preparation checklist. So I would imagine, but correct me if I'm wrong, Rich, most residents don't
prepare a grading plan unless you're putting in a pool maybe or is do you usually get a grading plan? So right now typically we get grading plans for new dwellings, swimming pools, sometimes for retaining
walls just because that's you know elevation driven. But what this is going to do is incorporate all those types of projects and that that individual will have to have a grading plan prepared
by a licensed professional and submitted to to my office for review. So I I see the value in that. What what do we imagine the cost of this? This is either a civil engineer or a landscape architect. I know >> it varies,
>> right? But it's not an architect that I'll just point. >> No, an architect an architect can they can they can prepare a plan. >> Um so where I was headed is this is a new this would be not a standard procedure
for most applicants. What do you imagine the cost might be on a basic grading plan for sort of an R an R10 zone? >> It depends on the project. It depends on what they're doing um and the level of
detail they need. You know, if they're if they're doing a if they're increasing 400 square feet by adding a garage and a driveway, yeah, they're going to need to update their survey. They're going to have to do a grading plan. They're going to have to show a BMP and comply with
the ordinance. I I can't provide you exact costs or even ballparks for that type of work. >> It's fine. What I'm getting at is this is an additional professional and a new fee for applicants for minor develop. And that's something we should
be keeping in mind. Um the good question. >> Well, it's for both. It it also it it's it's on their end. It's also on our end because now we're that all these other
projects that have never really been reviewed will be reviewed and then the oversight will be provided and then the event the eventual sign off of these projects. >> So, it's it's kind of two-sided. Yeah. question.
In the end, is this going to be a lot more work for your office? >> I think I think what it's going to do is going to streamline it because right now we're spending a lot of time either upfront or unfortunately at the
end. And I think this is going to help streamline the process. It's going to push some of the burden back on the applicant. They're going to have to submit complete documents to comply with that form that we created along with complying with all
the other things that the ordinances and the governing body have implemented based on the different um you know statutes etc. But I mean yeah at the end of the day it will create more of a workload but we're doing it now and I think it's going to
streamline. >> Okay. Can I ask one question? One question. I know you want to pass a motion, but since we don't have in here the fee schedule, >> the thought process on that was that the
schedule one is like 1% right or less and that requires like all separate workshops and discussions. We need to take that out. >> I would like I would say remove it for now like because every project the whole essence of this wasn't to like hit fees
or generate that. It was to close the loophole. There's going to be other things that come out of it day two like it always does. C can we put in there that there's a fee schedule in appendix A that won't be initiated until it's
passed at a further date? I think I think we should just take out the fee that there is a fee scheduled to start, right? Because then >> Well, then we would have to I'm trying to remember was there >> have to either Yeah. >> Yeah. Which we know is going to happen, right? We always know that we're going
to improve ordinances. We're going to get data to enhance it. We also have to update chapter 23. >> But what's the point of putting an ordinance in place if there's no penalty? >> But that's only for exemptions. We're not talking that it's never been discussed about penalty schedule for not complying. But just my thought process
is if you put in there the way that I said, it's almost a placeholder to tell the future governing body you're supposed to act on this and add something to it. You don't put it in there, it could get lost in the shuffle. Well, it won't. I know it won't, but you know,
>> but can you have it that there is a fee schedule? >> Well, you you can't say that there's a penalty about the fire penalty. >> That's what I'm saying. So, I think you have to take it out, right? There is no penalty provision in the ordinance as it currently stands. There is a development
waiver fee, but it's not defined at this point. >> Right. There's no there's no penalty language in there. >> Well, what about the waiver fee though? So, we don't define that. Do we have to take that? >> Don't think it would be more efficient if >> included that. I know we want to get
this moving and and get it implemented and codified, but at the same time, >> we can see what fe schedule exists, but when we came up against fees before on the tree ordinance, it led to Yeah. >> certain hiccups along the way. Again,
the intent here wasn't to penalize. The intent here was to close the loophole. Right. So, and that so we can go either way. We can look at wershed and New Jersey DP and see what they recommend and put it in, >> but I'm not I'm not in a position like
to to assess like penalties for non-compliance that that wasn't the intent and the focus of this, right? Like >> the ordinance at all. So unless you're going to want to put a penalty provision in there, it's >> it's not addressed development. You got
minor development. It gets too big and sticky. if we want to if we want to look to see if it's already been approved in some other ordinance the fee and again it's only the exemption waiver right there's one fee that's all that it is so let us take it away and see if if it if
there's a recommended value in there >> unless you can keep it in their bay but I think you can't is what you're saying you can't >> put in the general fund >> well I mean there is current language that says that the fee may be adjusted at from time to time based on the governing body and we can point to where
the fee is listed somewhere else and it could just be zero for now but for you know cohesiveness >> the existing fee schedule >> yes 100% >> several categories one of which is a waiver for a fee in low >> which is essentially what this is
>> well fee in lie of a penalty >> but but it exists in our fee schedule why not just use that so that can always be faulted >> so let's do that Christina what we'll do on that one fee specific to the exemption waiver is refer to Allison knows it better than
me that the fee schedule right the one that includes it and then the only other change that we're going to make is the reference on the definitions of BMP but do it in a way where the definition doesn't become obsolete as the state updates it and then Christina has the dimminimous changes
>> did you mention something about a penalty that I that I missed >> no no penalty >> regular >> this is already going to be a hurdle. So for applicants, although Rich, I'm
glad that this is going to streamline things and I think residents will benefit from that. They value their time. Um they value that kind of streamline engagement. Any any way can make that smoother even if there is some additional cost to the property owner. I hope it's not much. Um, and the only
thing I'd like to add as a body is that we we understand and pay attention and listen to how this goes as it's implemented. >> Um, I know that we're all interested in encouraging investment in our private
and commercial properties. So, I don't think this is pushing it to the point where it's going to obstruct investment, but I would like to make sure we're paying attention to So, I'll make a motion to introduce at the next meeting.
>> Okay. >> Did you actually say the whole motion? Did I say the whole motion? Maybe I did. Go ahead. >> Go. Please. >> I want to make a motion to um to bring this. >> Wait, Bessie, you just said that.
>> Fine. >> Absolutely. >> You guys make your motion. What? >> No. Council Monoi Council Monoi made the motion. >> I don't second it. >> I will second him with those three things we said. >> Are we roll calling or we're all in
favor here? What are we doing? >> All in favor. >> All in favor? >> I. Anyone opposed? >> Thank you, >> Rich. Thanks, man. Appreciate >> Christina. Thank you. >> Thank you all. >> We are >> We are public comment on agenda items only. Please observe three minute time
limit. Please stand. Identify yourself by clearly saying your name and address for the record. Anyone have anything on the agenda items only? Yeah, sure. Come on up. >> Uh Bonnie 115 Baton Road. Um Rich still
on. Where's he gone? >> Yeah, I'm here. >> Oh, okay. I just want to say um this uh in the spirit of soak up the rain and storm water education the uh love where you live would love to have a table on this um next year um not to put any work
I'm sure we'd get a lot of people um to help with it but I think it would be a great thing to you know opportunity for education would be great and I just had a question Rich because I'm trying to figure out the of course the tree angle here if I am putting on addition and in
In order to do that, I have to cut down a big tree and I'm higher than my neighbor. So by doing that, my neighbor is going to be flooded. Is that caught here? Is that somehow a consideration? Ju just that
>> because we know the trees hold. >> So the the tree removal is not part of this application. It's a prior approval for this application. Is that ever considered though >> the storm water impact?
>> Well, normally what would happen is >> yes, of course it's considered. What happens is if I may not know about a project when a tree removal permit is submitted, but if our tree our certified tree
expert has concerns or or obviously is talking to that applicant and they're explaining their project, they would typically reach out to my office and we would have a discussion. But the tree removal is a prior approval
um handled by our certified tree expert. I I I'm not sure you would What's your exact question then? >> I I'm just wondering if you know all of a sudden this unsuspecting neighbor next door who doesn't necessarily have any
say in it or do they have a say in it? I mean it it just like the perfect example is okay you want to put your addition here but if you just tweaked it if you just considered the impact of taking down that tree and perhaps so that you don't impact your neighbor you do your
addition a little differently I mean and you know a lot of times even if it's just too close to the tree then they say well we're going to cut half of the root system so then we have to take it down. Well, did you really have to do that? And I mean, somebody like Michael who suffered from what the neighbors did,
nothing that she did on her own property, but >> and it was also all those trees taken down behind me. So, right. So, I guess I guess I just wonder if that's a consideration. >> So, yeah, what I'm hearing is right, I'm hear I'm hearing two different things, right? One, I'm hearing what is the impact on the overall storm water
management for a property if a tree is removed. that is separate and distinct from hey I'm going to move my renovation uh excuse me my addition from point A to point B so I don't take this tree down so I want to separate >> they don't have a storm water issue >> well but agreed sure right whether there is a storm water issue or not right we
can't put that as a blanket but those are the two things that you're talking about right >> specific to removing this the tree itself right the way that this is while while the impact on how much water that tree takes in and all that isn't part of
the application the grading plan Rich keeping honest here by understanding the topographies by understanding which way the water flows by understanding beyond the property line and everything you'll be able to assess even with the tree coming out if you are uh uh implementing
a proper storm water BMP right >> well it actually goes back to the designer of that that that professional engineer that's designing that grading plan and stormwater management ment plan for the property owner that's looking to
do the work. So what what I what I'm saying is it puts the burden back on that design professional to to provide sound engineering for storm water management. >> Let me ask a question that might help.
Do Rich, are you aware of any kind of um table say for example that engineers, landscape architects can refer to that would identify the volume of water a certain size species of tree sequesters.
>> I'm meant to ask the question, >> but hold on. We're on we're in islands only and we're getting into a discussion about trees >> which is but now but now we're we're we're expanding this out into a totally different discussion. If we want to do that during good of the burrow, it's doing that good of the burrow. But two
totally separate discussions. >> I thought it I was under storm water a question about >> we we've already debated the tree ordinance in this in this huge part of >> so during go to the burrow we can discuss it again. Right now let's stick to parts of um the stormwater management
ordinance specifically itself. >> She's asking question. >> I understand her question. Now we're moving on to trees. Well, it's a separate question. The table would identify the volume of I don't know that such a thing exists, which is why I asked and if it
doesn't, you know, it's hard to address your question. >> Josh, my question was just are is the trees role in storm water management properly covered in our new and if in fact, as Rich is saying, the tree ordinance kind
of the the permit comes through separately and I'm just wondering if Sherry is the person to as part of her analysis say wow if this is removed it will impact storm water or she makes a recommendation to check on it for check
on it I mean maybe it is a something to change in the tree ordinance and that is a different thing I'm just saying I just was trying to I was just trying to >> I understand if this was >> there somewhere in here though that you mentioned that you're asking there was
something about trees in here where you do ask to lay out the tree. There's I now I can't remember. It was a lot, but >> it's on the >> it's on the application form. There's a question that says does the does the proposed work involve removal of trees?
And they have to click yes or no. And if they click yes, it says explain. My point is it's a prior approval and it it it forces that applicant to really think about when they answer those questions. It's no different than
does it require a street opening permit? Does it require a D permit? Does it does it require uh flood plane management permit? It's all these prior approvals prior to engineering that comes to me because it's it's it's handled by a
different department. It's not through my office and and it would be >> I I just would hate to be after the fact this tree comes down and all of a sudden there's this big flooding issue. It's something I think >> 100% I understand
>> where it was going is I don't think that there's an industry standard that would identify the the amount of water sequestered by a tree. Therefore, there's no way for the designer to account for how much water may or may not leave the site. Rich, are you aware of any kind of
guidance? >> In my 30 years, I have not seen such a table. >> I'm not familiar with >> Well, because we haven't paid attention to trees roles in sports water management >> for 30 years. We just have recently started to really pay attention to it. That's why I just hope that it does
become a part and if we have to do something in the tree ordinance on, you know, we can definitely discuss the shade trade. Um >> if you have ideas certainly share them with us and you know we'll we always say we're going to continue to look at that as well. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> Thank you.
>> Anyone else public comment on agenda items only >> I have Chris >> Chris. Hello. Oh hello. Hello. >> Hey Chris. >> How are you everyone? I'm sorry I couldn't be there in person. I got caught up with some home stuff and I was
like I was I actually came down last night and forgot that it was a holiday and the meeting was postponed. I walked down there. I was all excited. I was on time. Um I have a question I guess about the parking ordinance proposal. So I don't think it's really specific to Willow. It's more about the ordinance in
general. So, I wasn't aware I guess the way the ordinance reads and and I'll just speak to Willow just because I live on Willow and the park is across the street, but it it reads as such that parking is prohibited at all times on the southerntherly side of Willow from
Fair Haven Road to uh to Oak, which is the entire the entirety of the parking spots along the park. And then easterly um from Fair Haven Road, it's like basically to the end of the school property on the north side, which would
be the resident side of the street. I I'm just Look, I don't I don't think anything's going to change in the parking ordinance or the way people park on Willow Street. I guess really what I'm asking is the way the ordinance is written, it almost sounds like you could never park on Willow Street, you know,
and there there's a school in a park there and then you know >> I think >> what I'm so what I'm hearing here I'm just repeating because I assume you you you can't hear Chris is we're not changing anything in reference to
Willow. What I am wondering out loud though is when they made those changes for the school, did we update? >> No, I I I don't I don't think so. I mean, unless change accidentally, I really, you know, I can take a look at it tomorrow. There's nothing here tonight changing that. It is at the
time. There's nothing changed at all. It appear >> it appears there's no changes for Willow Street, but but what it what the ordinance being introduced tonight, I think there's a couple of changes across town, but it brought my attention to the list of streets where parking is prohibited at all times, which includes
W Street, which is a it's an odd thing, you know, to say, oh, you know, it's technically no one's allowed to park here at all, you know, but it is obviously we everybody parks here. So, I guess it's sort of >> there was no proposed changes for tonight. I I'll take a look at it more
and try to figure out what it looks like. But there's nothing on the on there tonight that changes. Maybe it's been like that. If so, we can take a look at it and change it next time. >> Yeah, you get what I'm you get. I mean, since they're looking at it tonight, maybe they take a look at that because that seems >> really sit down and look at it what it
says, but we can take a look at it. And the other question, I guess, as it relates to the the part of the street that's on the northerly side, the school does actually go ahead and reserve a spot on Willow Street for the PTA winner
or something like that. Um, I guess somebody had asked me the question like, how did they get that? Like how what when did that go before the council? How did they get a reserve parking spot on Willow Street? Obviously, you know, some of the neighbors are concerned because
parents used our parking our driveways for parking spots occasionally. The chief and his team have done a great job at shuffling people along as as we brought attention to it over the years. So, I'm not bringing that to the table, but so I was asked, how did the PTA get
a parking spot on Willow Street? That's something uh that was put up there by them and it's not forceable. I'm not really sure what it says there, but they probably put that up for council. >> Gotcha. Gotcha.
>> Yeah. Yeah. So, I guess the question, mayor and council, is if is maybe maybe while you guys are looking at the parking ordinance, reconsider uh the definition of parking is prohibited at all times on on the southerntherly side of Willow, which is all the spots along
the park. And then um the the spots that they do use in front of the school as well. >> Thank you, Chris. Um the chief uh mentioned that in the next few days he'll take a look at that and if it does need to be changed, we'll just just like
we're um you know uh introducing here uh we'll we'll introduce again and and close that loophole. >> Yeah, that'd be great. I mean, I don't think I I'm not suggesting that anyone's I don't think the chief or his his team are going to start enforcing the parking prohibition on Willow. I'm not I'm not
suggesting that. I don't think that's ever going to happen in a million years. But according according to the according to the burough ordinance, no one's allowed to park on Willow Street on that side. So >> I got you. I'm much more worried about ebikes than I am the PTA parking spot.
>> Oh, me too. Me too. I love Keep Keep up the work on ebikes, please. >> Terrifying. >> Thank you. Thank you, Chris. >> Thank you. >> All right. Thank you. Uh moving along, we have approval of minutes 29th for a
meeting in executive session. I have a motion to approve as presented. Motion >> second. >> Alison, may I please have a roll call? >> Yes. >> Howie? >> Yes. >> Permanent. >> Um, next up, old business NJDP living
shoreline grant. >> Thanks. So, just to give you an update since the last time we met, I had a meeting with um Zach from the American Liberal Society last week. Um, in attendance that meeting was engineer Gardella, Nick Porchinsky, our DBW director, um, Kelly Flanigan from the
Environmental Commission, and um, and Jesse as well. Um, we talked about um, the grant itself. Um, currently Zach from ALS is actually doing the grant for Woodbridge, so he's pretty familiar with the um, with the process of it. uh a
couple points he did bring up. Most of the awards that he's seen in the past for this grant have to do with um carbon sequestration. So basically that's the whole reason that they're pushing these living shorelines is to sequester carbon. Um so that's one of the points that he said, you know, for the the
sites that we're looking at to make sure that that's certainly in our grant. As far as um the American Little Society being able to do the concept plan engineering, they have no ability to do that. The only portion they can do is they can do the grant. They have been contracted again by Woodbridge to do it.
They've done it for other towns as well. Um they do not work for free. Um I did request for them to get me a fee schedule what it would cost if we were interested in them writing the grant. Um which they are working on which they will get. Um as far as though prior to writing the grant we would need to have
um surveys, engineering concept plan. we would have to hire outside professionals from you know one of our to do it. So um the next step we would have to do if the governing body still wants to move forward on this um would be um again to move forward with um getting quotes from
our uh three um consulting engineers that we have on our roster and see what they put together. Then we bring that back to council. Uh Rich, did I miss anything or >> No, you covered everything. Yes. >> Yeah, I think that's pretty much it.
Again, the uh carbon sequestration is the big key on, you know, what they're determining toward money for. Um it's not just to create living shoreline to prevent carbon from going back into the atmosphere. And they wanted to make sure that we that we stress that on our application that we do pick a site uh that would be fulfilling that goal.
>> Thank Chris, few questions. Yes. Right. We can apply for the grant and not jeopardize the grant that we were approved for 21 Fair Haven Road. >> Correct. The 21 Fair Haven Road grant was approved at 300 >> 361 and change.
>> So 361 that they'll match the R 361 and then this Living Shoreline grant would be paired with the Normandy B and with 21 FAM road in the amount of well the MAC again there's 30 million available for funding. Um, again, it's a rolling grant, so it's whenever they run out of
money or August of 2026, the max you can apply for is 5 million >> and it's not a match. It's 500 to us. >> Yeah, because we own the property. We do not own the property, we'd be required to do a 25% match, but considering we own both pieces of property, no match required. >> Love it. I'm fully in support of it.
>> Do do you have any idea how much the process to apply for the grant would cost? So looking at it again and even you know Rich and I bouncing some numbers back and forth I would say the best case scenario maybe 80,000 but it could be more so 80,000 for consulting
engineers and that is something that we certainly had to govern anyway it could be more than that depending again because you you know from all the engineering the concept plan and then obviously getting whether we decided to contract the American literal society to write the grant um or we end up having having one of our consulting engineers
write the grant Um there's a lot that's involved in that narrative to make sure you hit all the points to get the funding, but it would be a significant investment um for us to go forward with. >> But the question I have though is what is the net increase in cost? Right. So for 21 for Haven Road specific, we know
that we have to hire an environmental engineer, right? There's work that has to happen at that site. Correct. >> Right. So understanding that we'll put into Normandy potentially into this, what is the net increase in cost, right? like how much would we regardless at 21
frame road and professional support? >> You you're I I don't think adding to Normandy is really going to increase it significantly. I mean we're going to have to put together a concept plan regardless whether we go for this grant or not for the site. Um so we're going to have to hire professionals and engineers. This is not something um that
can be done in house, you know, to serve the scope of the project. Hope that answers your question. >> What was the deadline for this living shoreline grant? So Living Shoreline grant is a rolling grant. So it opened up in August of 25. So it's either when they run out of money and there's 30
million funding for it or April of 2026 >> because if we're on track >> I'm sorry August apologize August of >> the other eight month. >> Thinking through the mechanics of that meeting there >> 100%. >> Okay. How much money >> assuming the 361 for 21 Fair Haven Road
and we match that with 361. How much money is left for soft cost soft costs with the professionals because the professional support would come from soft >> that that's your full funding, >> right? But didn't we have
>> grant is separated and the money for 21 fairday event it's just what's that is what's available >> now we had we currently before the grant we currently have about 771,000 available in the 21 fair road grant um
and then we have 77,000 for the Normandy >> right so my point is there's $780,000 left >> there's no delineation between hard and soft >> okay fair so out of the 780,000 that We have we need 362 372 of that at a
minimum to match the grant >> which means that there's 400,000ish left to cover other costs whether it's additional stuff at the site or professional support. Correct. That
400,000 can be used to add additional tangible things at the site like the gazebo. Not that that's what's going to go there. or it can be used to support professionals over Thank you. >> I'd need to review the ordinance specifically to make >> Okay, that'd be really important.
>> But that planning and design would apply to this grant as well as future grants if we needed more open space money through our partner. >> Um there are a number of grants, but they all require those same base level components.
>> So at some point, you're going to do this anyway. We have to do this. Yeah, down the line even if we didn't get funding, we would have if we were going to move past, you know, the site stabil the demolition site stabilization that we're doing this month, >> we are going to have to get some kind of
concept plan done. So, we're going to have to have >> Exactly. Even if we kept it the same, we're going to have to hire an engineer to do a bulkhead if that's what we decided. So how what is the shelf life or the surveys or the site plan or I
mean how long is it is it good for a year is it good for 10 years >> that is a rich that's rich what is the shelf life for surveys and >> the concept plan I mean obviously the concept plan would be but for surveys >> I mean the surveys are what they are but
the um the concept plans there there's no per se shelf life. Usually your shelf life is based on your permits. If you if you seek different permits, they they're usually five years you have to start the project.
So if you were to invest and prepare a plan and then decide not to move forward, you would be fine, I would think, you know, to reuse that in in five years or even more.
Similar to what we did with the Normandy, we have we have a lot of I have a plan. I have details. I've worked with um various folks to develop that. It just that that project just never moved forward. supported that we have to do so much
work. I want for a hidden road. We have the potential for half a million dollars. >> This is a very good idea and you know whatever investment we are making to apply for this grant that same investment would have us apply for a different grant. There's no reason not
to do it. It it also moves the process along so that we as a community can ultimately end up with the park. Chris, can we draw from that $780,000 to >> this? I'm almost positive we can again
before we gave a definition just to review the ordinance. If not, then we have to go back to bond council and update that ordinance. But I believe when we updated it last time, I'm almost positive we made those changes. >> I'm not interested in any more debt.
>> No, 100%. No more debt. Yeah, but I think we >> we have the money to hire at the profession. >> Well, that's what I'm asking from that >> and and just to go back in March of 25, right, that the GB approved hiring both the professional support for the
environmental engineering. >> The other one was traffic and park analysis or circulation, right? So, that was that's always been part of the plan. >> U N put you on the spot if it's Drew, I'll get back to you. Do we have to bucket the funds? So if if the professional services would be a living
shoreline both at Normandy and at 21 Fairaven Road and then let's say it's 50 grand, does 70% have to come from 21 Fair Haven Road funds and then the other >> percentage come from the Normandy funds because then we have 77,000 left for
Normandy. >> So do you have to separate which project? >> Yeah, we can talk about it offline. I just wanted to raise it. I mean, it's hard to answer without being able to actually look at the ordinances and review them and and see how they were written.
>> I I don't think that's a problem and I'm almost positive 21 behind report. >> So, so I'll move forward and um I'll get prices from our engineers with the scope of work together and then report back. >> Thank you. Uh, next up, facilities
update followed right into the U sprinkler discussion. >> Yeah, I'll be quick, mayor. Uh, two two change orders on the consent agenda. They're decreases money to us. Uh, ribbon cutting for PBCC 26 October. It's a Sunday at 9:00 a.m. You'll see a comm
come out um probably sometime tomorrow. Um, and then the uh ordinance uh that is doing the uh traffic was one of the items that Councilwoman Poey and I um addressed in the uh the the Maple Avenue Fisk area. Majority of items have all
been resolved. So, Chief, thank you for all the work on that. Really appreciate it. Um last item is at the last GB meeting, we raised the uh uh discussion on do we put sprinkler systems in? Um we were going to let the GB sleep on it,
quote unquote. Um, from my perspective, based on the conversations that I've had, um, I think we could augment ordering temporarily, um, through next year. Again, right, we'll have to make sure whoever is leading facilities that they keep an eye on it, make sure the
watering gets in place, but these plants are native. They're meant not to take in a lot of water once they've been established. So, where my head is at is I don't think we need to spend the money on the sprinkler infrastructure. But I'm one >> I write I have a similar but with the
first they um you know we use a watering truck and I know that's one of the things that's called out in community forest dramatic but and a watering truck is just a great way to leverage vampire and to get into
nooks and crevices as well as obviously open space but it's it helps us it would help I mean whatever money we might even consider on sprinklers My feeling is I'd rather put some of that. You wouldn't even need as much what sprinklers would require to put
into a good watering truck. >> Yeah, 100%. >> And is on the back of a truck pump was >> broken. We were hauling out gallons of water. >> That's a good point. >> You know, that would have been helpful. >> In fact, but also for future, right? We
have all the temporary infrastructure at PDCC and DBW on the once the plants and everything take that infrastructure could be repurposed to other areas right >> get a quote find out what it is that's a good idea >> we have a water we have a watering truck
we own a watering truck >> do we need a new apparatus though to >> use it for trees >> yeah because we use the watering truck when we uh for to plant to water the planters on river. Can we can we evaluate and ask Nick what he needs in
terms of >> But does it shoot water? Because like there's parts of the DPW that are far off the road. You feel going to need to >> straighten even speaking my language
>> and that water conversation. >> What's the what's the distance? Yeah, >> I mean there's places for sprinklers and there's places that they don't need to sit there and say >> I'll talk to Nick and see if we what the capabilities are >> and we're all in agreement no sprinkler
infrastructure. We'll make sure next perfect thanks mayor. Well done. >> Thank you. We're moving along to introduction of ordinances. Um we're starting with 2025-17 Ben code 2-56.1 burrow fee schedule include various permit fees. Before I ask for a motion,
does anyone have anything on this? No. Do >> I have a motion to approve? Motion to >> approve. Second. Alison, may I please have a roll call? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Affirmative. >> Thank you. Uh, next up, 2025-18, amend
chapter 7, vehicles and traffic sections, 14 parking prohibited at all times on certain streets, and 21 multi-way stop intersections. Before I ask for a motion, does anyone have anything on this? >> Um, when May I ask a procedural question? Given that we know there's
some things that need to be amended or stricken um can we do that during introduction or would be where's the right place to do that? >> Well, we'd have to >> I think we would pass this one and then we could do the next >> address the next one. It's not
>> it wouldn't have had adoption. >> No, we would >> we would finish this off as it is and then we would start the process again >> for any additional changes. >> No, it's good. Just one last question on this. >> Absolutely. >> If if we introduced it with a motion to
introduce and a second and we opened it for discussion and there was an amendment to this, >> is it? >> It's a major change. >> Major change. >> Oh god. Okay. >> And then, you know, I would I would let the chief review all of them. So there's
I'm sure there's be a lot of change. >> Okay. >> I think I heard Councilman Cotch had a motion to approve. Second, I please have a roll call. >> Yes. Sally, >> yes. >> Yes.
>> Yes. >> All right. Consent agenda resolutions 2025-251 through 256. Before I ask for a motion, does anyone want to separate anything? >> Don't want to separate, mayor. Just want to call out and kudos on 252, CFMP,
Jade Tree, all the work. I can't there's so many countless people that were involved with this just phenomenal phenomenal work and it's another tool in our pool below there. So that's it. May there >> I I have a question.
>> Um under 2025-253 the uh decrease in landscaping and security system costs. >> Where do those credits go? >> I'll let Nancy or Chris speak to that. >> Sorry. from
>> I'm assuming we pay for it and then we get credit or we haven't paid for it yet. >> No, we haven't paid for it comes off the bill. >> Well, deducted from our final payment, >> right? Thank you. >> And just to understand, we have retainage that we've held back on all these projects as well. So, so even things we have paid for that there's
been, you know, 2% retainage has been held back. So, >> okay. Thank you. >> Anyone else want to separate anything? Any else have any questions on anything? Do I have a motion? Second. >> Uh, Council Hoy made a motion. Uh, may
please have a roll call. >> Council members call. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Permanent. Uh, department report September. >> Thank you. >> Uh, all in do I have a second?
>> Second. All in favor? >> I. >> Anyone opposed? >> All right. What is the good of the book burrow portion of the uh meeting? Please stand. identify yourself by clear stating your name match for the record. Please observe a time moment of three minutes. Anyone would go to the burrow. >> Mayor, I have one thing I just want to bring up real quick. Just want to just
have on the record. Um Mayor Halpern um clerk Brada and I on um October 9th went to the county commissioners meeting to receive the award for um the M County Open Space Award for 21 Fair Haven Road in the amount of $361,817. And it was great to be at the meeting.
And I just wanted to put on the record to thank uh director Arnon and Councilman Liter who worked on the project and made sure that we awarded the funding so we can move in this park. So it's a great event. >> Oh, sorry. >> Oh, I have one small
it takes two seconds. Um now that we have adopted the farest management plan, the town is now eligible for a category of grant um better resilience. This was our resiliency component and but now we're eligible for replanting for
planting grant and um yeah actually there's more money in well as of about years ago there was more money in that fund than in the resiliency fun um I actually was asking wanted to ask this question about um 115 Baton not 150
Baton the Baton Road Um yeah, >> I was curious what was happening there. I see a bulkhead which say that during comment on agenda items on Sorry. >> I just curious what is there a fault here or is that just a kind of a
temporary thing that's supposed to keep >> They're building a they're building a coffer dam so then they can reconstruct the boat ramp. >> It's temporary. >> It's temporary sheeting that they installed. Okay. It's not working. It's totally flooded.
>> I mean, it I just We had the last two days. >> It's totally Yeah. There's like now >> last two days. >> I just was Yeah. >> Okay. >> Rich, can you have obviously someone take a look at it? >> Yeah, we're monitoring it.
>> What is the timing on that project? Is there >> for it to be completed? You mean? Yeah. Rich, do we have a completion date or estimate >> once they finish all their measures to actually do the work? They said it's going to be quick within a couple weeks
or so. It's not it's not a an exorbitant amount of work to do. >> Would you estimate middle November, end of November? >> We're not going to hold these. >> Yeah. Weather permitting. Yes. >> I'll just give even just I'll give you a longer timeline. We have to have both
the Graange Avenue project and the boat ramp project has to be done before the end of the year um as a condition of the grant. So it will not be spilling over into 2026 if that calms any concerns. >> I have a question about range. Those rocks is that permanent or is that a
placeholder for a nice pretty plant? Like there's a rock garden now. You been there in the pocket bar. >> Yeah. Yeah, that goes down. >> You walk down the steps and you look out the beautiful view and then you turn around, there's rocks and rocks. >> That was that was part of that was part
of the design of the project. >> Part of the design, part of the drainage. >> That was when Kier's engineering designed that project. That was part of the design of the project. >> I actually I think the part looks I'm not saying the rocks. I think the park came out pretty nice. It's a shame that there rocks there and
I mean I just that's a >> no we did it to the design based on our engineering but like if you have an idea in the future where you think we can enhance the area let us know >> like you go down the sidewalk and both sides instead of having beautiful grasses or something else that would hold back
>> it's piles of rocks >> could we do sad I was very sad when I saw it because it doesn't look very >> it's sort of industrial looking >> I just was curious if it you know I If there's any chance speak to whether or not you can
>> um plant around it or on it even the bank >> we have to look at the subsurface to see what it's it's basically what they call rip wrap rip wrap it's like mini jetty rock and it's to slow the volume of
water down um and then it enters there's a trench drain right behind it prior to it spilling out onto the the brick prominad So it's to capture all that runoff coming down the hill. It's a storm >> branch. It's it's meant to capture the
sediment that plumes before it goes into the data set. >> That too. Yes. >> Plants do too. I mean I think that that's sort of like with our new storm water adapt adoptions. Would there have been a little bit different best practices chosen moving forward?
Probably yes. I hope. >> Yeah. It sound it's The only thing I'm hearing though is it sounds like the Jenny Rock is better for keeping I'm not saying grass doesn't do that, but Jenny Rock is better for keeping those pollutants out of the water. So, you know, we're we're prioritizing different
things and different people have different opinions. I'm not saying they're right or wrong, but it sounds like there was some strategy that went into this. Um, doesn't mean that we can't look at it for future projects and learn from it, you know. >> Yeah, but it was part that was part of
the design. that was with the collars engineering who worked on design that project put that at the board plan. >> It was actually maser that did it. So I don't know if we want to blame Collers for that decision but it went yes >> but they took responsibility for it
after it was too it was a it was a long time coming. >> Yeah. So it's done. It doesn't look as bad. >> Anyone else? >> Go to the burrow. >> I have something too. >> No, please. Um I just want to um uh raise uh ebikes.
I want to make sure everybody's educated that there is a policy uh that the board of ed has set. Um it was set back in 2016. It's 5514. Students are not permitted to bring any motorized bicycle, skateboard, scooter, roller skates, hoverboard or any other motorized motor transportation on school
grounds during the school day. So I think it's really important one to call it out to obviously come down to education and enforcement, >> right? But between that policy, right, the policy we set, right, we're taking that multi-prong approach. Obviously, the score event we have no influence over whatsoever, but there would be a
policy that exist. >> Have they have they sent out that policy to their student? >> I don't know. I think there's a conversation taking place on tomorrow. Um I don't want to speak for the board of ed or anything, but there is a policy in place and it's just something else to educate ourselves on. Is that >> and and just one thing to add on that
too, there was a correspondence that went out to um from the league and municipal managers regarding municipalities with ebike ordinances and um at the last joint insurance meeting they discussed how a good majority of municipalities in the state of New Jersey do not have ordinances for ebikes
and they're they're suggesting and they're her they're they're strongly suggesting that municipalities do that uh for liability purposes and the fact that we were one of the first um in New Jersey to actually adopt an ebike ordinance um I think is remarkable as well. So
>> well we you know we have to preface it with the state is now you know is questioning our passage of the ordinance and saying it's more restrictive than the state allows and things that we have to look into uh the ordinance but we'll work continue to work with the uh with
the state courts um and James Newman right the chief of municipal judgement for Mammoth County. But what I'm hearing is is that we took a more aggressive approach to >> safety concern. So yeah. Yes. Absolutely. >> And if the state mandates like we have to apply, good on us for being
proactive. >> Absolutely. And that's going to all change. There's going to be >> solution >> endanger their residents and they're going to have to make that choice on us. >> Yep. 100%. >> So >> um I just had one thing on the grant topic. um one to flag as we start to
think about community center phase two loop that the green acres funding is now open for park development. So, similar time frame to what um we applied for last year. We applied for the Jake's law non-inclusive playground. Um and I did a little bit of research. So, the the
applications are open now. It's everything from um you know, when you think about 2025 funding. Uh so, traditional park improvements, turf turf fields, natural fields, lighting, restrooms, playground replacements, walking paths, courts, amphitheaters, etc. Um looks like they awarded about
$47.7 million last year. anything in the range of 400k to 2 million. So, um same same process, same deadline which will be in February. Just wanted to flag that as we think about, you know, funding for >> Thank you. I'll take a look at that tomorrow. >> And I'm happy.
>> Yes. Thank you. >> Uh anyone else in online? >> No. Uh one last thing. >> Sure. >> Uh I would like to thank the beautifification committee and the garden club of Fair Haven for uh the pots at the community center. They put
in new pots with lots of flowers and it really it really looks nice. >> I haven't seen the other heard they look really nice. Yeah. >> Thank you. Um no executive session. Nope. Correct. Uh we are going to adjourn. The time is 9:31 p.m. Do I have
motion from someone besides council? >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I. Anyone opposed? >> Are you not? Tonight we're at