Okay, good evening everybody. This is the regular meeting of the fair historic preservation commission. Adequate notice of the meeting has been given pursuant to the provisions of the open public meeting act. At the time of board reorganization in January of this year, the board adopted regular meeting schedule for the year. notice the
schedule was sent and was published in the Asbury Park Press on January 31st, 2025 and in the tours on January 23rd, 2025. The notice is also posted on the B board of the burough hall and has remained continuously posted there as required by the statute. A copy of the
notice is and has been available for to the public and is on file at the office of the burough clerk. A copy of the notice has been sent to the members of the public as have requested such information and in accordance with the statute adequate notice having having
been given. Uh the board secretary is directed to include this statement in the minutes of the meeting. Uh so can we have a roll call? Mr. Yes. Yes. Mr. Adams. Yes. Mr.
Yes. Mr. Heler, yes. Mrs. Pora, yes. Mrs. Casey, yes. Mr. Yes. And Mrs. Forte. Okay. Uh, we will get moving. And we have one application that is an informal
application and that is Henry Demper. He is 28 at 28A Avenue which is block 51, lot 32. He was again, it's an informal application. going to be seeking uh to get the board's guidance I the commission's guidance I I suspect with
regard to the movement of his front door to an area adjacent to window and vice versa as he gained on his application. So Mr. Ner want you to come on up and uh for the purpose of transparency I'll put on the record that Mr. Nenture did
contact me. We had a discussion preliminarily about what he intended on doing and specifically the nature of his house, whether it's contributing or not contributing to the historic district and just the extent that the work that
he proposed and uh sort of what he thought the best route to take uh in terms of coming for the commission. uh in light of the fact that he didn't have hoops lined up, I offered to him and suggested that perhaps an informal application would be appropriate for you
and as a result I suspect that conversation is here before us as an informal to get our take on what we propose. Exactly. Thank you. May I Yeah, absolutely. And we'll hear from you.
Okay. Wonderful. Uh do you all have copies of the application that I submitted uh earlier this month? I do. Now they the pictures may be out of order as far as how I might tell this little
story, but the um the houses, as we said earlier, 28A GI Avenue, it's at the corner of Glesia and that Miller Street, Captain Point Road. the um the side of the house where they were considering the work is not on
Gillespie. It's not that direction. That's what would be considered the side of my house facing Gillespie. Whereas the worker intending on doing it or hopefully doing it faces Captain Point. Uh, a different
picture. It's the front view of the house from Captain's Point. It's got a circle and a line through it, perhaps. I'm sorry if they're not in the right order. And that just shows that this is the front of the
house. You seen the one with the circle on it? Okay, great. Then perhaps the next page on in your deck, it's a view of the existing front stoop. And again, as it says here,
there'd be no changes would be visible from Gillespie because uh the house does face captain's point. Uh and from this from the picture, can you see there's the door on the left and
a window straight ahead? So, those are the two items in question. And of course, everything is properly framed because there's the window in the door. And it wouldn't be a whole big deal construction wise for the contractor to
cut a bigger hole where the window is, put the window and just make a swap out. Uh, it would make it make a big difference. I don't know if anyone's walked by this house. It's definitely a cottageized house.
And it's um the downstairs is roughly 600 ft. And by uh there's a big benefit to making a move door. It's not just some arbitrary thing. The kitchen is rather long and narrow and there's never been
good eating space in that room. So, by moving the door and window, it would create an area roughly 9 ft by 7 ft that's uninterrupted from a door that's opening into it and it would carve out a
nice eating niche for around a small home. So, that's the purpose. I'm just I'm not doing this just to build it. Okay. Um, so I net out some nice space for a dining table. And if you needed some
perspective, I'm sorry I didn't put this in earlier. The if you got a picture of the stoop of front bricks, it's 9 ft wide and approximately 5 ft deep, not including the first two steps up. And I think it would also, this is
such a natural move because you come up the steps, you see the door, you go through the door. Now you can come into the kitchen, but there's pluses and minuses for everything. But again, heading out a dining area would be worth the what might not even be an issue to
come into the kitchen. Um, and it's always been kind of weird. You come up the steps, you make a turn to get into the door, and then when people come to the door, it's always a little awkward. I think this one more natural flow. Um, there's a mockup in
here that would show it's what it would look like to make it easy to vision it. I don't know if you have that page handy. And then there's also a before and after page. I don't know if you will see the
before and after page. So that kind of spells that little illustrates what it would look like. That's pretty much the story. Uh tell us a little bit about the house. How old is the house? What's the history
of it? Kind of interesting to have a two house and it location. Tell us a little bit about on the deed to the house. It says it was constructed in 1927. There's two other properties on the north side of Captain's Point Road.
Um, mine's the first one on the corner. The middle one is sort of uh almost twice as large as mine. And then the third one is a much larger version, probably 4,000 square feet. It sits right on the river. One day, a historian came by and
I was out in front of the house and he asked me about the house and he was loaded question. He knew a lot more than I do. He said that this used to be uh the main house was a fishing sportsman's retreat. I don't know if people fought
their way in or just came out as they were fighting. That's as much as kind of knew about that. I've heard other stories where one particular owner gave the middle house to his daughter and that cathedral ceiling. It's beautiful. That you familiar with that middle
house? I don't know if you've ever been in it, but that catheif is is beautiful. If you look back towards the kitchen, that's a little balcony in the living room. And there was some folklore that the young daughter put on puppet shows and the little marionette stuff
upstairs. Um, it's just been a great place to live. I just want to be more comfortable in the same house. I don't want to move. I just really like the neighborhood a lot. I've I've been here since 1997 and this
1998. Uh, and we bought the house in May of 98. So, it's 27 years. Before it was kept way, the driveway emptied out onto another roadway. Was that a is that a public roadway or was that just a driveway that serviced some of the houses that were back there? Yeah,
that's what it was. There was a family that name was Lawrence and Mrs. Lawrence had was the uh the house in the back right on the river. That's currently number one Captain Point Road.
Essentially the same footprint because that's what the town wished for and and got. But of course the Lux's gorgeous, gorgeous home. But there was an artist cottage off to the side which now there's another 4,000 plus square foot.
Beautiful home and one house a little closer up on Captain's Point. The first one you approach is you come down on the north side of Captain's Point. And those homes, I guess they're about seven or eight years old now. But before they were there, it was just a dirt road that
went all the way down. And my side had an easement which was a concrete paved easement. So people drove about 7 ft from my front door to get past me to the to the other two
homes. Even with all that still a lovely place to be wasn't enough to correct a whole lot about, right? But um yeah, so um just a couple things. the fact that it's captain's point way technically a private road and still determined that
to be a public right of way since there's not restricted access the house you were mentioning the one that's next to you on the east side the other tutor they've come before us and we've treated the facade of that the something that's within the the jurisdiction of the commission um in terms of whether or not
it's visible it doesn't matter whether it's just simply visible from Gillespie but I do think probably the door would be the visible from Gillespie But having said that, um, you know, the house and J and Joe is telling me what your thoughts are, but I would think that, you know, looking at it, the door
doesn't upset the timing of the house in any way and is uh and if anything probably is, like you said, a more logical entry point based on the articulation of the stairway and the landing pad in front of the window and
door. Um so I don't think it certainly doesn't change the configuration to the extent that the house you know it's not contri it's not a significant historic structure in the district however it's a contributing structure and based on what told us it has an interesting history
100 years old virtually you know don't really know much about that fisherman lodge with any of the accessory structures maybe we should look into that you know certainly it's a contributing structure with an interesting story But at least from know from an informal standpoint, I don't see
anything negative or detrimental making that minimum change uh primarily because it doesn't upset the symmetry of the house from from the existing color and relocating it and the window. Frankly, that door I don't know how old
that door is, but it's plenty old. I've sanded it, painted it a couple of times. It's It's a little beat up. It's If you tell me to keep it, I'll have take it off and professionally clean and and sand it and paint it. Um love to go
to the store and get a new fresh storm door front door. Um I'm very flexible. More important is that I can make the move. Yeah. And if there's some good guidance, I'd love to thank
you show us the door and that if you're going to change it, you're going to change it with a light door, then I think that would be accepted. And would the window be a new window or would it be moving that existing window? It would
be the exact same window. Yeah. So, I think um that's a very valid point. Um, and that's kind of one of the reasons why I suggested come in as an informal because we weren't sure what you wanted to do with the door. Um, and and it's unclear from the photos exactly the type
of door it is, if it's at all historically significant, whether or not it's original to the house. Um, maybe you provide a little bit when you're filing form file provide a little bit more information, but something that's light and kind visually um is what we
would probably be looking for. alleged these gentlemen speak as well, but I think that um that that would be what we'd be looking for. Mentioned storm doors, so I would suspect that a door with maybe a glass storm door would not be something that would be um something we're looking at. Something that really
doesn't change the nature and configuration of the entryway the house. Something very similar to what you have there or reusing the existing floor. just to be uh expedited a bit of time, I'd be happy to move the existing door
as is. And there is a storm door in front of it right now. It's it is two panes of glass right now. That's that's here. Um is that also? No, that's an Anderson of much later
vintage. I I didn't put in any of those windows. You probably can't really tell what it is. Yeah. Yeah, it's [Music] um Yeah. Um is is this photo photo? They just photoshopped basically using the
exact same door. Exactly. Yeah. that that configuration is something that I think if it's an Anderson new door it wouldn't matter what
storm would be more concerned about the action um and just just to backtrack one second and thank you for that point this picture here um that might show the door better the storm door.
Yeah, that's kind of a closeup. Um, so just when you come back on, just be specific with that. In other words, if you're using a builder or if you're going to reuse the existing, in other words, even if you have specifications or manufacturers or anything like that,
instead of just saying put in a similar, that's a little that lacks specificity. Um, I don't think we have to do the specificity would be on a u significant structure, but specificity would be helpful with maybe images and photos,
clear photos of what's there versus what we're going to be trying to do. And just selfishly to save some of my time and effort, could I suggest that I keep the door and put the put it in where the
window is and then when I'm ready to shop for a new door, then reconvene and approach the commission to see if you accept that door and then replace it later. I mean, I thought I can speak to the commission, but I don't think that that would risk that I mentioned before. I
don't think there would be any problem with moving the door and obviously we could use the now which is existing that would be an avenue which just is a two-step process of just getting it all done now but that's completely up to you. Well, I'm thinking uh if I fill out the application um tomorrow, Monday, I
get on the next meeting. It's a month from now and someone said, "No, we don't like that door." And then I've got more time and so forth. Whereas at least I can have the work done. Yeah. By using the
door. Are there any thoughts on this information about the door that's there or structural issues that the door is not in good
I think it's time to upgrade the door but I don't know if I'm going to have time to come back here with the door in a month and then some folks may say well get a red door. I agree with Dar and Joe that the moving
of the two would really be unnoticeable. I think to uh anybody going by I mean I guess most be concerned on the quality of the the cutting in the patching and all that that would be done in a way
that was well done as opposed to you know something that that uh where it was an obvious you know kind of so that's one two like you said there is the ability to refurbish and reinstall or
alternatively It may be cheaper to uh photograph that and have it remade in kind as opposed to an Anderson. There's a number of Z work facilities around here that could give you a number and you could at least compare that to Anderson and refurbishing it as is. Now,
part of me I might not have been clear about this the original wooden door which is red with some window pane and a little bit of detailed treatment on it. That's not an Anderson door. I I understood. Okay. Well, it's a who came with the house. You came with the house
and who knows who made that. Yeah. and and there's number we we'd be happy to to share a few contacts but maybe get a number of them versus refinish it because I I hate need to go through all the time and
effort and money to reinstall it to just to take it out and then have to spend again as opposed to doing it uh you know right the first time or alternatively if I mean it's unclear how close there's There's a number of of of
you know big not local ones but lower companies that made up one that's so close that you couldn't tell but you can't really tell from the photograph. So I those seem like three different avenues to go
down. I don't know what shade it is and how bad you know how much effort the victory do you have a contractor shave to get the work. Yes. Yes, he's got other things. This was the can of worms I wanted to replace piece
for piece kitchen cabinets because they were cabinets that were built on site. Have you talked to him about the type of the type of door you want to replace it with? What exactly was he suggesting give and take with? No, he knows I'm here tonight hoping to get the approval
or some good direction from this commission. uh so we wouldn't proceed beyond a conversation that he can do the work structurally it's ready to go. Um and he said he actually said I can take this off sand it down nicely paint it
nicely and I don't dislike the door. I just thought a new door was in my future uh because I was going to do this and take it out. It's a nice It's a nice old door. So, I don't mind swapping it for the sake of time
and then approaching you folks and I have to approach you folks anyway next month in a formal way to get a decision. I won't say I should go ahead with this tonight. I think that's another option where you take
that away and hang it in a new jam and he could remain the door in a new jam with the correct weather stripping still. And that one problem is right there. Instead of using the old jam, the door
just hanging in the new jam. [Music] Okay. I didn't think about that. I also think that the the change that you're making is going to make it more viable because as you said it's not very
big and space is going to clean and I I think that making it more functional is going to help to you know keep the incentive to you know when you sell it then expire to to keep it and enjoy it as well. I I think
there's only positives to make this move and against being just selfishly I I want to stick around here and I want to live in that house and it just would make it more comfortable. U how things happen. A friend of mine's
a carpenter and it just I showed him pictures. He went like this and like that and upside down for a minute and within less than a minute he said you got to move the door. And I've had some smart people come through and give me all kind of advice.
And when he said it, I went home later. It was an aha moment. So, I'm gathering not to be presumptive, but this sounds like a favorable idea and that you folks would likely be on board
with me doing this type of work. provided that the door is um up to the style and standard that they'd like it to be. Well, it would be same or similar to this door that's there that
presumably is uh closer to the origins of the house. So again, I can tell you I mean it doesn't seem like anybody has any issue with the movement of the door or keeping of the existing door or something same or similar. But if you do decide to swap it out on another door,
my caution is to be specific with either photos or specifications or a description or even a model so that you know what you're actually swapping out. You can't just do it sort of in the abstract because we don't want to put you off. And we are giving the
flexibility sort of saying it work any way you want, whatever works for you. I hear that and I'm trying grateful for the uh encouragement and positive feedback. So, is this the second house from from the street which we're the first one? It's the first one. Okay.
Yeah. Because it looks very much like the second one because my daughter-in-law grew up there in the second one. Yeah. Okay. I probably I I before I moved into the area. Yeah. Yeah, it was always
remember I didn't describing as far as fishing as well. Yeah. note the one that's on the ver which is all that's been repainted but also to so thank you all and I'd like to leave
you with some notes so I don't have to sure overly think this absolutely number one if I decide to use the current door um cleaned up and so forth that's an option for me to use absolutely
Okay. Um, if I go shopping, do I have to actually buy the door or just take a picture of the door and say this is what I'm going to buy or specification or and we'd also like to see the one that you wouldn't be using it. So you could
kind of assess what that difference would be. So just again photographs of the existing door and this picture of the proposed door and there would be take a bunch of photos of the existing door from the exterior open door. take
some photos of the main door so that we can see what's there because again it's not that I mean you can see a bit of what is there but it's a little part of the sounds terrific uh am I still here now do I need to answer anything or get
him to ask you something No. Okay. I'd say better than good. This is what I would hope to hear because it will make a big difference. It's It's cozy in there. Real cozy. So, this is going to be helpful. I'll fill out
another application suddenly so I can get on the June meeting. I'm just curious where the door changed. Where would the door lead to when you open that door into the kitchen? That's right. Okay. And that's
like the living room here. Well, um I don't know what you're pointing to. Well, you know the windows where the where the door is. That's that's going to be the dining area. Yeah. And then it's a there's no walls. There's nothing else in that area. So, it flows into the living
room and den type area. As I said, I've been my daughter-in-law grew up in the second house. So, this is the first house, right? The middle one. Correct. That's Yeah. And so so but it's amazing. I've been in that house so many times
and it has the little banister or like a balcony tiny balcony. [Music] Oh, that's a great house. Yeah, it's got a ton of character. Yeah,
great. So more tradition is the better. We have there is a comment from the audience Susan. So I'm confused because I sat through all the 24 when they were subdivided etc. And I
didn't think that the road in Point Road is it was um it doesn't if they have to drive the garbage can they don't get tell you go that's
part of the home. So I don't consider it a public road. So I don't understand why here. And so a couple reasons to and specific to this application that door in that portion of the house is visible on an
angle from the left. So that's moved as far as that issue for the purpose of this application. But wait a little otherwise um we have treated that as a public road thoroughare only because of the fact that there's no restriction to
the public. Granted, they pay they have it with an HOA or whatever it is that they pay into and they do have services and snow removal. However, there's no restriction from anybody in the public from going to that area. So, in the past, they have treated it as a public
thorough affair and uh it would be inappropriate to treat it any differently at this juncture. I think uh about a year ago whenever the application was being forced to the other two houses, we went back and forth on it. I think the resolution was that
we did exercise jurisdiction. Um it was a similar situation that however say I'm familiar with the house and I don't think you can see the door from from all maybe the
window but because of how they house I don't think it's movable. When uh I spoke with Mr. Sure valley I'm familiar with the roadway and I did have an opportunity to look and um the door as
it exists right now is not visible however at an angle I think the door will be visible once it is modified so like the official just that
no the official historic district map is generated before subdivision. Does that mean that there should be an opportunity to be draw that's not to say interest to do that is something we
can do. Um I think again it's uh we if it's something that is arguably within our jurisdiction I can't make the decision of my on my own uh to say no it's not
something that should come before us it usually results in the applicant coming determination as to whether or not census we think it in fact is within our jurisdiction and I think arguably here as an explain to you it's visible from whether whether it is or it isn't speak
um that I think is permitting us to assume jurisdiction of this um that's the answer president Lawrence. Yeah, right. It's on a private project. Does that mean that if there anybody on
a you said street does that mean any aspect of a house an eve a window or a window is visible from that technically if it's visible from a street it's something that falls within
our jurisdiction um I I think that an argument can be made that they're changing something if you use your description a component of the house that's not visible. Arguably, it wouldn't be our jurisdiction. So, if that house has stick that that example,
if they face the river, they're making modification facing the river facing north, but yet the south facing portion would be the only portion to get that jurisdiction technically
fits within. And whenever we have something that fits within our jurisdiction, we have to side jurisdiction. So what is the window from? Very [Music]
very what's being changed to a door that would tell me that subject jurisdiction. Yes. I just want to be as respectful as I can to the neighborhood to you folks. Do the right thing. Sleep well at night and not
have some some kind of tattletail person pointing fingers and I'm here dragging instead of uh willingly approach with a reasonable kind of spare. I put a table out by the driveway so
they didn't when I used to have a dog. So I think I'm all set. I don't I don't like options and I'm much advice for your time. Thank you. All right. Lots of old business. We have
licensing office chap. Um okay bysentennial hall we also here you can come up weigh discussion. Um the latest I have is that they're
waiting on second from uh this referring to a bid documents for the next wave of improvements we've been calling punch things like um reinstalling doors or or
making them reinstalled and then they open. Hopefully that helps. Um the paint, the logs, a dedicated bicycle parking, um a number of things. Um and Matt Cronin is going to
ask for her quote for his portion of the documents and um the engineer is handling the components sort of on either end of masks. Uh since we're here in structure on that today, we didn't get a chance. I did
look at the handicap. It's great. Did a great job. It's sort of minimalist. That's perfect for you. I'm glad you like um anything else coming. Um so it it will be hopefully
when the package of specifications put together. Um, I think the trickiest part of this is going to be getting the right contractor to respond to the bid and because it's an unusual bundle of dogs, but um, if any that has to be pulled
down or separated, um, I'm sure that's part of the discussion that it's an ad alternate case we need to get, you know, find place, but it'll be done as a package. It's being put out as a package.
We won't know the timing until the documents are prepared. But usually after they're prepared, then there's three steps to come. I remember we we've already authorized the preparation in this that was one council meeting some time ago last year actually. Um and then
we have to authorize it to go out. No, no, that's already happened, I believe. And then when after they send it out, there's a 30-day window for them to be received. by various contractors and there's a period of time where an engineer and other officials review
those bids and then they rank them in order of you know which one came in at the best rate and then they qualify those bids to ensure they meet all of the government has a lot of requirement that they're licensed that they have the proper certification that the hiring
practices are equitable and um then they make a recommendation to council which is then accepting and we award the bid and then the contractor is notified and then there are some period of time for that contractor to mobilize and then it
starts. So, um, yeah, I'll just keep you posted. Keep you posted as as you can. The other thing that's been going on is, um, and is anticipated at any moment or any time, I should say, the, um, the
award for the planning grant for the programs and displays and other things, you know, that the community might want to do here. um you know that we it was awarded there is a contract being drawn up and the staff is waiting for that contract to hit our bar administrator's
desk. I understand that that's forthcoming. Um and then it would be a matter of planning when that work will get underway. That's by Centennial Hall. Oh, are you speaking of non construction
activities? Yeah, education, um, archiving, presentation, museum component. It can I'm not saying what it will be. I'm just seeing the potential for those types of programs. We want to have a dose program. Do we want to have
the doors open? We want volunteers operating, you know, being available field trips. And I mean, a lot, but we'll have professional help facilitate that discussion. Yeah, there is one other thing related
to Centennial Hall, but that's on the agenda. The um council meeting isn't three, four days ago. I'm so tired. Um we the historic association for those of you on the board know this already. There's a few
board members here to voted to um propose to uh the town fair event that they donate a landscape design and installation which finished really um by Centennial Hall with the hopes that it would be completed in um time to
celebrate our 250th anniversary. And uh so the proposal was made at the last council meeting and everyone was very enthusiast about the idea. So next steps will be to reconvene the board and we talk about interviewing landscape architects and would love any
recommendations that folks here on the board on the commission might might know. Um and then we'll take that to the historic commission. So the association would put the bill for the architectural work and the burough would pay for the actual planting. No, it was um not
presented that way. It was that they would pay for I think a lot of this shed at once. We meant the cost but was discussed with um preparing the design and doing installation donation. I can tell you now the cost of the
installation with government is going to be a lot higher than it would not profit to do it. And I and I took the time I had a preliminary meeting with Mr. Yor about what the mechanisms are in place and what are the hurdles not for profit
would have to go through in order to do this. Um and it's it's a very straightforward donation. Um so I was pleased. I know those kinds of conversations with our former VA complex. Um so and I don't know why that's case but anyway um it's a new
day. It's a better day. Yeah. So, we'll keep you posted. Um, nothing about the design or the process will move forward without you knowing, you know, the the cadence of the meetings allows the presentation materials here
at the same time as the association see. Great. That's good. Mhm. Anything else that's Oh, sorry. I'm curious. How do they contain the paint color? It's a very good
question. You want to talk about it? Well, you're better versed in this than I am to put the status of it is right now because we haven't taken any formal. So, yeah. I mean, Susan asks a very good question. I know I had the same question.
Um they it's my recommendation that this this body consider being part of the decision um and bringing in other stakeholders that we think are knowledgeable, devoted, interested um and I know at one point
this is going back a few meetings um we tal what strikes me is there's a decision to be made about what color it will be and Then there was a conversation about the importance of knowing what it has been
over time. Meaning it was at one time this color and it lived the building lived this kind of life and then in its next iteration it served as a a church or a community center or and it was different color at different times and in that way
like help us understand what our options are and what is appropriate. And so at the moment there's no process that I'm aware of to answer your question directly to Susan, but I think we could propose a process. Um ultimately the determination
is by the burough makes that decision. That would be a council vote. I suspect I think the council would vote on something like maybe maybe but not without a professional recommendation. No, understood. Understood. Ultimately the decision on what to do has to come
by virtue of council vote um because it's bor it's product owned by that's probably fair that is the ultimate I mean I certainly think that it should be guided by a professional how how far away do you think we are
from making a determination I'd like to get a process in place like yesterday personally but to determine how far away it's the same question we were talking about earlier, you know, when is the work going to start? Is the people go buy a paint
color? Um, not knowing when the plan could, but we don't know when we're going to start. But that the time between now and the time the contractor is ready to start, we should undertake a process to Yeah. And is it something though that the council should determine
in other words, the process? I don't know. We have the ability to I mean, we are again to point well stakeholders. There is a stakeholder group. Yeah, we have, you know, realistically speaking, we obviously should have a say as well. There's also been some public comment
thought as well. How that gets disseminated to the public. We don't really know, but but is is that a determination for us to make or is that anything that the council is wrestling with right now? Well, the bandwidth is pretty packed. Yeah, I think these these
um special sort of this is a more narrow decision even though it's extremely important and so I think it does need to be pulled out and really considered here. squarely within your jurisdiction. The the decision or at least the advisory role that this commission
plays. Yeah. The association meetings to the approve process months ago which said this body will make a recommendation. Well, we had some discussion about
Yeah, we never really got that far again. It's going to have all these different elements and the other professional paint valuator whether they come and talk to us. Thank you
for the work or whatever the process is present to us, you know, where they present it to them years ago when 30 40 years ago I was working with and I had
um I think about um he actually said that it was get the original chip. We had took that. They took off the paint at the bottom and he took it and had checked out and it was it was a
green. So what I'm curious about what was that process? Was it just a small association? Well, no. I I picked up the the little pieces of paint that were left on the
bottom and it was the original, you know, and so that's where we got the paint from chip like that. And so then we got painters that did did the work. So I hear what you're saying. It sounds
like it was more back then and maybe what we're looking for is a process where does that professional to come and professionals
do is there is there the bindings were. Not that I know. It was all matter of you know this is the way that it was when it was built in 1881. I wonder um basically these can can the
association I don't know how can the association just say we'll look into this find somebody cost $2,000 for them to come and do something. will get a report for you guys. They can either they give us their living history or
they can't from somebody who does an associate. Is that something? Is that something? But it sounds like no one's going to do it. Well, that's there's two there's really three parts here because I've been taking notes. there's um the absence of the
process and and this body can recommend that process um not maybe the specifics of it but make sure to take steps that put a process in place even if that's the recommendation but the process is one piece. It seems like there's also some research which is another piece and
then there's reports and findings and um that seems like the third piece. Is there any other piece of work related to this that No, I think that we're finding somebody who has expertise that can provide some
background I think is the starting point because even you know regardless of the process is um we need that basis of information for anybody to make a decision. So we're not in a position commission is
not in a position to have somebody do that. The point's well taken if they do that because it's something that the association to look into. My um it it could be my my in my role wearing many hats. Um I
would say the association would want if that's something to take back to the board then um the association would want to first establish with the governing body that that would be welcome we so because the hood
association own building to spend the money to produce a resource like that that will would not be used. So that's why you were getting to make you didn't
have to build because the decision was made by the chip the little chip that we took the original so it was only you know at the bottom. No I
don't you know official person that we didn't just say, "Hey, get a painter." We got a special price. Oh, yes. When I'm partisan because we had this discussion, it was it was just a group
of us, but we were from the station. It was just people that were interested in, you know, Yeah. It was it was Did anybody in the governor body say wait a minute did anybody ask you to bring your proposal to
then I don't recall but I don't so that's different from back then so therefore I think whoever is someone has to own the decision to um define the process hire
the professional Um what the outcome [Music] is you want someone if someone were willing to volunteer people who are certified
figure this etc etc I mean I can do that I know startation careers but that's not so just got to hold that process of I think I I think there's uh we do have to get some you do have to
get agreement from the government that look you're not going to just decide amongst your health. No, right. Well, I mean one way or the other information and take not you guys.
I mean, who can grant this authority? I know it might sound silly to like take a chip off a piece of property close to town. Is that is that folks? Well, that's what I'm saying. Yeah, it's
like you know Katie's point 25 more red tape like who can give us the maybe that's just a simple answer like would be the last body or person to say go ahead take that piece of paper off the side the building
my opinion if it's not someone on this board or in the historic association I don't know who else we are constantly making decisions here based onertise these right these two gentlemen who talk with their
understanding of of architecture. In my opinion, um the first step should be taken by someone on this commission to at least step and I have done some research and how
other notion um museums there is a process. You never know. A color has to penetrate and work backwards. The once
the process is in play, a paint bucket of paint have to be ordered and that color. So how do we get to that? Yeah. Whoever it is that's when they come on site have to do is not just pull the
paint off. analysis used to say what is from what I read it's not this is not the only structure that has
had to go through that process behind the experts analysis so but it wasn't being it was not white that's people were saying oh I think it was white no it wasn't white that's why we got the paint because that was the original chip
that was right in front of the board. Can we just make that recommendation now at the next council meeting? You want to just do that? I say we recommend retaining someone to come and do the analysis and then I guess what the council vote on it. Well, I think you
formally have want to make motion, you can do that. May I um contribute for you a consideration prior to the motion? Sure. Um but but I certainly understand to get to the action would be great and then I can
help the ASAP to you. Um I laid out earlier the need for a process because there is an owner of the building and then there are all the stakeholders and the owner has to also agree to the process. The owner is the governing body. They represent the owners, right?
It's fulfilling. But um it's important to take that step because there might be some people just think I don't want a process. We'll just decide for ourselves. I'm not saying that's true. But if that's there, making sure that there's a commitment from the six legislators who would like to have a
process gives them the opportunity to say no, we're going to have a process. Um so I would like you to consider that possibility of recommending a process. My um other suggestion is that the right professional is probably not somebody who's going to
come to paint samples. I think there's a time and a place for that, but initially um a a preservation architect or somebody who knows how to look through the archives to see the story. This building was built at a certain period of time. It was a certain color. It was
used for a certain purpose, but and it lived an entire life before this moment in time. and there were changes in those things. But having that narrative will really um be an important part of how we
steward this building moving forward. Um and it will also help inform the choices of the options that are available to us for now. So I think that the right professional is and I am open to all your suggestions but I think it's a a
preservation or an architect that is comfortable with this topic and a little bit of research not that there's some available information and then generate a report people that have been on the path of big burrow are they qualified
would that be well I think um that blank fellow Mr. Pavlap Pavlups do you think? Yeah, he seems eminently qualified. Um Um I I could approach Matt Cronin
since he's currently engaged on this property. I could approach him just to find out if it's something he feels he could do properly for us because he's really researching the past life of the building which is document for the most part.
um he may or may not feel that that's within his wheelhouse. Yeah, I think Cath is certainly qualified. He's done work on this project before. He's well aware of history. I don't even know if he's doing this sort of thing or if that's something that certainly would be
able to render some type of analysis, but whether or not that's something that's his specialty, but maybe he could assist in directing this. Yeah. One thing that's unique about this sport is they have many and many have wanted to make change
because of changes in their families. So the argument that just because the needs have changed and said I'm sorry mater x y and z just for your functional needs and you can even said that um you
have to maintain the intent of the way that your house was you know historically. So I guess my I think I think the medium on this body is the same built but yes that building has this building has been used for many
different purposes over the decades but we've always leaned towards what was the original intent purpose and you know I think that's something I'd be interested in that story I feel like I don't know that
story that's why I think building the chapters. I don't even know how many chapters there are, but it was built in what 1982 the life of the building. It's doesn't have to be a long, but so I I submit those thoughts to you for your consideration as you formulate next
steps and and ultimately this board would just make a recommendation to the council and the town and they're going to make the final decision. All right. So I mean to a certain degree that may give us more latitude here uh as opposed
to not driving to the council we're just advising to the council they're going to weigh number factors that they have there but there's history there's public selling whatever it may be but that may
give us the process is important but getting getting the knowledgeable right here uh to to advise us of it. And again, we're we're just making a recommendation and and you know that
whether it goes to replicating what was originally or if you were in well was there some other uh iteration of it over the you know the past you know period of time that would be something to
consider or is there other corollaries from elsewhere that might be transferable and appropriate here but I think That's where convicted people can get a little bit of think we should have a consensus and I'm
not saying that it should be this or not do we think it just should be what as close to what the original was that we should have yes because it's you know it's not as easy well that's a good answer but there's other points
too. Uh, and what's coming to mind is having somebody that has a background, you know, talk to us. You know, there is a a house right that I know that may be able just to ask him retired, but that's all he did was
historic historic buildings here in New Jersey, ships and things like that. So, I think that in terms of the commission I'm kind of asking Tracy as
well commission from the association rather that that would be something that I think we would be very interested in is commissioning somebody to form an analysis not just your points well not just a paint analysis but sort of a
historic slash uh structural analysis if you will in terms of what the original was the whole ideology to the building and things of that nature. So we can we can look into that. I will make calls. J can look into that. I will reach out to
Mr. P. Do you have a budget or does the historic pres commission have a budget? Um I should know that probably but I don't know. We've never expended anybody now. I'm being told that.
Thank you Sheila. I know there was a time in the past if there was somebody allocated never to Yeah. I mean if you for example if say the county historic preservation the
office historic had resources and technical training professionals who could come out and do this sort of thing for even and it was a flat rate of $1,000 and you had a little bit of money. you just do it and notify the
governing body. We're going to have to take this professional on fee in keeping you with your budget to explore this three if well I guess that's the other but you're going to probably have to ask for a little bit of money to bring in well that is a possibility and we probably won't
know some maybe we could reach out to some people as well I didn't anybody to do that but there was a potential motion pending do you do you think that there should be a request by the commission to the council whether or not they would
even consider consider that or I mean I I think you're going to put it as as a recommendation and let them deal with whether or not they feel it's a worthwhile recommendation to take up that. You mean you say like preliminary
like it's not something they want to consider? Well, if you want to break it into pieces, then the first thing would be able you'd say we recommend we institute a process that includes um the public if they want to participate a
professional a role which will cost some dollars and and that um it results in a final report that covers D and just put that in the form of a recommendation. Um or you can just propose. Yeah, that's
just proposing the process and in that case you're taking one I think what I think if I'm reading what you're saying take one step at a time. You say this comes to mind that I mean ultimately I think it's the council that would need to take varying points of
view and expectations about it. I would think that our board is is looking at it from a historic vantage point and we say well historically this is what we feel is is the uh best for here and then they need
to weigh what public sentiment is or how they use it or how they view fair haven that's another way to go with where you come from is is not taking those other factors which are very important but it's not really within our jurisdiction
But it's more historically what is the most correct from from that and then they have to pray you know people like that's another way to handle this. So I I mean I think that would streamline where we're coming from because I don't
think it's really our duty to have to go through the um interaction with the community and so forth. I mean we're we're really more trying to get the most accurate maybe going back to original
maybe you know something that is also historic and appropriate. Yeah, just to clarify um in my what I was sharing I never was I suggesting that this body be responsible for managing or facilitating a public discussion in the entire
community but just that the council uh undertake a process that does you know go about to I certainly think I think engage and that you be part of that and and like it's not done as you were saying back 25 years ago it just happen
there. But I think we, you know, we're we're somewhat entrusted in in general for historic district and in particular this building to make this kind of recommendation. So that is this body think what I'm hearing while I talk to
it people think that we are in a position we're at to best represent the history the historical significance after our charter says the historical significance of so
so 80% of the public would say you know what they're saying you're hearing it the appealing paint that was horrible. Fix it. They want it fixed. Someone said paint it white
houses. I'm not sure. I think people are kind of on this side. So you have to sing. So this is something where is this issue as it relates how I mean again they need
I'm sorry they need a little coaxing from us they are going to it's not for us to determine the way in which it happens we can make the recommendation but they ultimately they ultimately
because we need that to kind of guide us said come to us with some detail if you want to process everything can't we volunteer to contact people they know
can't we contact some of these people who are do this kind of extradition and get an idea of what does it take to understand the the history of their construction of a building and understand the paint colors and some key
features. What would you normally do in a situation that I talked to some people who get those but right now I don't think well that's
the motent and then I know you want us to sort of get on here and of course you want us to take the lead on it but we because we're not even there yet. That's preventing us from doing that. I'm going
to reach out to Alex, but reach out to M County Historic Association and get some guidance on it. I indulge anybody else to do similar in know somebody then by the next meeting this will be an agenda item to do Sheila secretary I urge you
to centralize your discussions whether it's especially you have secretary and you that that's for whatever. Okay. Okay. So the last Okay, we can slow down
the general discussion. This is a little bit similar to the general discussion. I think we have an urgency now. I think we have a little bit time play out and I'm hoping by next month at least start
follow something when presenting new fire truck and then the CFL government said, "Well, they're overstepping by going out and getting
um because they did a whole presentation." So, be very careful about getting any kind of feedback about how something is going to cost because it has to go through the public. I would say as I I certainly understand what
you're concerned the the distinction there is um the fire companies they have different they're subject to different statutes and stuff but also they're they were running numbers through a state contract they thought state contract
um so it's a little bit more complex than what came across but however um if they're going out and talking to different people getting some idea. I think I think you're okay because uh it's very this is Susan's point is good
to me but the year it's homework it's more like the information is should you you know should use it. So it's not a formal quote you're just getting a range or a general idea of pure Yes.
Anything else on just want to bring up the stairs that were changed at the building on river. They had some guy there changing so they never the building next to the monarchs that they're not they do by the place
and there's no exterior grills on those windows. Okay. So, um, that's something that bring to Sheila's attention and Sheila will notify Nick Orchinsky and Excuse me. Joe, you want to formally indicate
Can you um maybe just email me with the the properties that you're talking about so I can be specific? Email address. Yeah. And then I can send that to them and have Okay. Yeah.
Uh the next item then is um the transfer window. Uh thank you to Katie. I see that you're giving some input on our letter or memorandum and has anything happened on that front recommendation?
I I'm not aware of it being transmitted. It was it was submitted. is provided to the Sheila. Am I being top on everything that comes through this board from the board? The commission.
Sorry. Which when it is our memorandum of action dated May 1st, 25 regarding the uh the trans. I believe I sent you a package. Well, um that was before it got I mean it still goes to council. Yes.
corresponding to that. Okay. I may I may have So, did you when you do it um because I didn't see it. I'm sorry. I don't know. But did it get sent to Chris
or Alison? I send it to the board members. I send everything I send an agenda to his approval and then I send all the information back to the members and I copy
our agenda but it doesn't get all the information. So when this body, so I think there's a I'm not sure of that, but when this body communicates to the governing body,
it would be directed to Chris. Yeah. Copy the entire governing body. So that's so I think we should it all has to go through Chris send it directly to anybody in the government.
Well, that's UFCb. So, the things that you asked to be copied, the things that you gave specific direction would you be sent to for us copying? That's what I've done at the last meeting. We had a discussion as to who copied and I think we kind of addressed that you and I
talked about it. Um, were all those people copied that we discussed? Are there people that are with that knowledge? Are there people that are not people that your guidance who else should we be notifying? because as we kind of discussed this is sort of a new
pro procedurally is somewhat new for us. Yeah. So all I know is the parts of government need to talk to each other and you do that in the form of a memorandum your memorandums um and your liaison is copied so that I can
facilitate the conveyance of your work. Sheila says yes I have to see it but also I have to get it on the agenda or bring it up under who the burrow. Okay. Um So the last suspect that it'll be done
the next I'm not sure that I saw but Sheila told me it was so I'm sure it's in my inbox. Yeah, I'm sure it's in my inbox and for some reason and it happens. I don't know about you guys on your email but I'm swamped. Yeah. So um but it helps to for
me to know that it happened and then I'll pull it for the next agenda. Okay. regardless of the letter. No, it wasn't bad. Okay. Um the status of that status qu right
now it's being preserved. It's in the B it's in the basement here. Okay. And u the office of the upshot is you know requested that obviously be preserved that be integrated to the community center and piece of design I
don't think that minimal suggestion on and um was a response to the mirror no it never really is and mayors.
Yeah, I think that's okay. So, okay, I'll pick it up. Police department facilities that and and we had this be a great place to
but he said he said the community center except you must have already heard this recommendation for this suggestion but he said it's not really possible to put it in very quickly construction there's no place to put it well that is
a piece of work but I have to evaluate the location and see if it can be accommodated somewhere so um hopefully that wasn't gone off the cuff because we do we should take the step of checking to see where but Um and and if I don't
know how he would have seen it unless maybe the mayor forwarded it to him, but u it it should go to the governor. Okay. So we'll have some feedback. Um obviously plus was that at
this point all even though the design elements have largely been finalized but it's still in a position right now where it can be integrated if possible. So yeah and it ultimately needs a final phase.
So um yeah. Okay. Um anything else with regard to the transit? Last item or not the last item but the second item cap.
Steve, what do you got for us? Yes. So, um, I think when we receive emails, you said that have you called I didn't call that the um, what was it cousin? I didn't call the cousin yet. Did you call that or No, I thought Okay. Yeah. No.
Yeah. I Yeah. So, I haven't um gain access to this. Is it open? Is it just like 9 to5 and it's open? What is that yard? Yeah, the DPW. Yeah. Um, weekendwide actually. I don't know where it is right now.
[Music] Yeah, they were eager to out. Wow. Sist. I remember some buzz about You get tidying up the site at DW. It's almost done. Okay. That actually makes it easier because then Yeah. Well, I'm curious to look to analyze see if
there's any manufacturer imprint stamp serial number because that would give us face on Saturday morning. Uh yeah, we'll probably go. We can imagine there is sometimes visual
something for the next sense of hey we we as a board said it feels like it belongs there standing up I was surprised to see it there Well, that's something for you to mention to Ed.
Yeah, absolutely. No, sorry. We have to Where is it? That's the property that's getting the fair in, right? Park basically, right? Yeah. And it's just there like Yeah, it's sitting there. Wow.
All right. And then I guess that then correlated to 21 Fair Road. Give us the update if anything on that. Um the only update is there's another open house as a grant application deadline approaching. Um
you're this body like all others is being asked to provide your input which I've noted and have not I haven't written it formally but I'll do that. Um, and of course make sure Sheila has it and
um convey it to Chris York who's the control he's the keeper of the public input and because it's going to then be put into the application. Yeah. And there was I did send it um I did send it to um the the proposed letter. Did you
distribute that amongst everybody? No, I didn't. Okay. Yeah, I received a proposed letter in support of the grant going to M County Park system that being sought after by individual citizens and also by different groups and organizations and
it was emailed to us. Um very briefly it talks about the benefits of a waterfront park creating value recreational asset fair haven among many benefits and the opportunities for the municipality the region by developing it and knowing that
children and their families to be excited and funding uh by the uh county will allow fair to improve it spaces resulting in greater access to the NAC river scenic beauty for all county and that it is uh that whoever is signatory
of this letter is wholeheartedly to use the term in the letter behind the funding for fair to develop this property. Uh I I think it's the letter is perfectly worded. I will make a motion that we execute on behalf of the
commission this letter and uh submit it to the M County Park system so that we can be in support and assist in the grants that the M County Park system has to offer for the development of that property. That motion they will take to vote the second
Mr. Yes. Mrs. D. Yes. Mr. Anderson. Yes. Mr. Yes. Mr. Yes. Yes. Yes. Okay. So, we'll get
that stuff because it's coming the historic preservation commission and that site is again historic district. Um I would only suggest that noted somewhere in your version of the letter because that is a template that's been distributed, you
know, pretty widely. So um that's just a suggestion if you feel it's appropriate. Y absolutely. Anything else? Um I no I mean it's moment we can um secure our professionals and continue
with some analysis and um really get on to some design. considerations uh all of which can't happen until we secure some funding. So that's the status right now. Okay. Uh
the last thing it's not on the agenda, but I think that Sheila um you know distributor I did not get a cop. I'm aware that this I don't have this. Oh, you're talking about the plat. I only heard I haven't read it. I don't know
about it. I haven't seen it. You did distribute it to everybody. I do not juris. So the commission members that did it came to me. I believe I believe it's well from
uh DJ at the request of council members. And so I took it to be a council matter that was being uh given to this body as aformational purposes. Yeah, that's
folks if you think about it today was just forformational purposes just as a FYI. Well, so I'm not direct what the expectation from the
scene and not directly onto the direct comment specifically to be distributed further. Yeah. If I may. Yeah. If I may, I I kind of I need to be on all the communication
when you send something to this commission, unless you feel otherwise, Mr. Chair, and um when something is conveyed from this body to the other parts of government, just copy me. Then I'll know if if that's acceptable. Yeah.
Yeah. I have no problem with that. Um, and certainly we get a lot of emails, get a lot of things, a lot of requests, and frequently what I'll do is I'll communicate with Sha and say submit this to everybody on the commission, either put it as an agenda item or just a
discussion item. This is one that came in a couple of days ago. Um, again, there was no real context that it was finalized and formal, but it was sent to us. So, I, you know, we figured it would be something to distribute and discuss. I can comment on it, but if it's
something that's just in the workings now, perhaps it's not even appropriate at this point. I don't know because your agenda is published and this isn't on your agenda. Came in I think after it wasn't an agenda. What were you to do? I was asked to give it
to and I sent it to the commission. Sure. So, so was there a request attached to this communion? I sent a request to accept it to do anything, but it was sent to me. I sent it to Sheila for the permission to share. We'll take that. Yeah. I just
um and I wish you did have the copy because I look at it here, but I'm really happy that they have sort of that kind of message in this in this document. Uh it's a vignette of of what the original went to school burned down.
Um but it's taken from a text from textbook on the African-American design of school integration in the north and in New Jersey. Um but the context is a little bit missing. So I hope it's not
finalized. It doesn't say it needs an introduction and it needs it needs to be referenced and there's just a few little things in here but I think it's a great story. It says what is that as I commissioner it was state that I
think it's council member who said the process was that he was working with his I asked about that and he said that process was working with um Reverend Smith and that Reverend Smith and his members of the congregation owned the
initial creation of what crafting thought that message would be. And so um because when I saw that email about it, there's similar concerns and I did call DJ because he was the one then asked what the process was and he
said the process if you have any feedback just give it to Reverend directly. He's the owner of this message. He didn't want me back. Yeah, he wants feedback. But
but did tell me in terms of process to be so transparent said I think it's in the grammar fixing stage which I felt it was a little further along than I anticipated but at the end of the day um
the council and other this that process started with reverence it wasn't a big thing and so I'm sure like I didn't really write something get opinions what it is. So I had two specific concerns
which I shared with them. Um and yes and because DJ asked DJ I feel uncomfortable making pastor D responsible for that. that was stated at the council meeting when I asked who's responsible for it and no but if you
state something in a council meeting it doesn't make it not I ask no words even if the gospel person makes a statement it isn't I don't you know I'll just say we're asking people to say it
that's can't comment to Do you guys have the process go or No, I haven't read it, you guys. I I also think this is important and I I want to make sure that we the community has the right thing here and I I'm
unclear. I'm unclear about I haven't read it. I don't know why DJ was the person to convey it. I don't know why it wasn't I I don't I'm very it's a it's an important kind of document here
is it's subtle and it's not subtle. It's a very, you know, I think it honors what's going on there by giving a story, but the context to a stranger who walks reading this, they're going to get academic. You're not going to talking
about there's no context that this school was in publication that it's called the African-American denomination in the north. and she's a professor in New Jersey or
something and it's actually pretty recent book but that's that's apparently where he got a lot of people story they had a story get the book but it's but there's no reference
here where the story and there's some quotations on the page from various people they're not references and the word context, but it's I like the idea. It's just it needs to be cleaned up a
bit for public consumption. Sure. I mean, guys, I I don't know how this materialized. I'm definitely going to help you, but yeah, at some point we'll address this. These are like rush
because the police station you might be thinking this could be sitting on the wall when they see it'll be placed outside. Yes. At this stage, you only see it. That's not the purpose of what I
thought it was. The the only I this is what I know is that the council agreed that the the site of the former black school was important. And while there wasn't any more architectural evidence
at the building, we know it was there and the site needed to have a landmark type of signage which would accommodate some language. I mean, I can I can sort of see through some of the pages and it looks like it's a lot of words. So, I really I don't know if there's a word
count. I don't know who the authorship belongs to. I don't know. So, I don't understand procedurally how it landed here with you guys. Um I have a lot of questions and um I think people just some people just defer to the fact that anything
historically they basically send it send it to me send it to Sheila. That's fine. You're not wrong. Right. So, um there's actually a vendor who's already working for
so that initial feedback that you had was just the mechanic of having how do those that many words play not professional that so I assumed I saw the vendor saying well they would certainly give the governing body back.
Hey, thanks for gi. Well, but I I only know what they have agreed to, which is a landmark sign outside. Um, and the the there really hasn't been anything else that council have been
made aware of or agreed to or reviewed. But a lot of these things to keep them moving, they can have, you know, it gets to a certain point and then it has to go to the council. Um, so okay. Well, we'll move
on to the left and that's actually on the agenda which I locus was um under new business was an email that I got and I already talked to Pat about this but it was a lantern there that basically indicated and I'll read what he told me.
Uh he came across a D from 1916 and the description references Church Street and Fairhagen Road the distances and directions. for example, Fairan Road being north of Street didn't add up. So the question was, and this is posed to
anybody, um, was the current river road ever called Fairfield? And he goes on to say that he has seen maps labeling River Road as Redbank Road and Oceanic Road. And he's also seen Pearl Street as a portion of
the current Fair Haven Road of the current river road. So I guess I guess the question is does anybody know uh in history whether the current river was ever fall fair and
pat in that doesn't really know much about that so I'm noticing that anybody else knowledge and guess with that note if Susan knows anything yeah or if there's anybody that may be chiming in
on Zoom if there's anybody listening No, that's okay. There was a postcard that [Music] said I don't know it was called what? What was it called?
It was called road to fair and it looked like Delta has chipp. All right. So, you what? There's a map online that labels river.
Okay. He mentioned that. I think he's he's basically asking more information. Well, he's saying was it was River Road Fair Road, right? Right. That's what he's asking. Yeah, exactly.
[Music] All it's an unresolved issue. Um, okay. Anything else uh the audience commission members or make a motion to Oh that motion to adopt the minutes from
our last um may I request Yeah. Yes. Yes, I think we got our second [Music]
drilling or something. I was not at least I know you were there. Second. Yes. Me? No. Did you say historically? Yes. Okay. Okay.
Yes. It could be posted. I was just going to request minutes as I compile the notes for the feedback from historic commission on 21. So those minutes, do you remember the meeting that there was? Was it the last meeting where we had a dedicated portion of the agenda for
discussion on 41? Yeah, we consulted that back. Yes, it was the uh actually Oh, the minutes. Okay. Yeah. And now they're approved and now they'll be posted on the website. So, as soon as
they're approved, I um now that hasn't happened yet. Maybe that's going to happen. Um did so I might not be tracking. Did the Did you just approve the minutes for the last meeting and it was the last meeting you
already had the discussion by? Okay. Okay, thank you. Yeah, one thing I were talking about when you asked, oh 21, I think. Yes, it did. And it
was it was we actually noticed that I was walking down Clay Street and there was a house on Clay Street where um they have just oyster shells. Oh yeah. And I smiled when I saw that.
Well, I don't know. Can't speak for my vision. Yeah. Yeah.