all right let's call this meeting to order at 7:03 p.m we're going to start with a salute to the flag I pledge allegiance to of the United States of America and to the for it stands one
nation indivisible with liy and justice for all please join me in a moment of Silent reflection thank you I'm short a sunshine no again uh Sunshine Law notice in accordance with the provisions of the open public
meetings ACT public meetings may be held in person or by means of communication equipment to include streaming services and other online meeting platforms this meeting is being held in person and through the zoom meeting platform being broadcast from bur Hall 748 River Road Fair Haven New Jersey public
participation for this regular council meeting of February 24th 2025 is available by call and phone number or through Web Conference during members of the public will be on mute until it time for questions or comments which will be announced at that time the public has the opportunity to question
or comment by phone or through Zoom by the raised hand button and will be called on at the appropriate time notice of this meeting was included in a schedule of meetings which was adopted by resolution number 20253 and sent to the Asbury Park Press in the Two River times on January 7th
2025 post on the burough website the boleton board of the municipal building and has remained continuously posted as required under the statute with adequate notice having been given the bur clerk is directed to include the statement in the minutes of this meeting Alison may I please have a roll call the M Paul yes
yes yes yes present yes we have administrator so Gord Andor thank you uh we are going to jump right into our first Workshop it's an Eagle Scout presentation by Charlie ER we have a PowerPoint as well that we're
going to pop up on to the TV Charlie come on up right front here right there you're good right there thank you for being [Music] here Charlie good to see you buddy how are you good where do you live in
town right the street right next to Norwood very cool very next slide I've been a resent of fairen Mind T life been a scout for several years now and I've been one step away from achieving Scout project that I would
like to do benefit the wildlife in our town it would be something that would benefit places I've spend hours in my childhood in um main plan is to expand pollinator ground that is already located on the Third Street Trail it will benefit the town
surrounding wildli as will attract more pollinators that will help plants the surrounding area grow and allove ecosystem health and look of the surrounding area uh this just one of the things that was updated just
uh the rough cost uh turns out it was changing is a lot is a lot lower than that is actually more a, uh300 can I ask what changed on there like what went down the the soil we don't need the soil I that's a lot of
soil the dir there is already good a uh those are just a few pictures like the co area where it is and what one example looks like hey Charlie quick question on the the pitch on the left with the proposed area is it ex you said
it's extending the current po so where is the current poor Gard to the left left I think it's like either yeah you you you can barely see right there see this so goes to the
okay cool very cool thank you got wow is that what the Gard going look like talking about open space time sorry Char well she brings that up the what do you like about the
pollinator Garden like why why did you pick it uh like I said earlier it helps uh spaces that are local that I've spent time growing up in and um I just feel it's a great way that I can achieve this
requirement very cool uh this is just a basic time timeline of everything how long I think it should take can can you go back yeah acquire funding you're doing that privately um uh what do you mean by how when you
say acquire the funding where are you getting the funding from um uh We've have some ideas for fundraisers that is actually one of later slid but I think I did update that that was one of the sides I updated as well I you want me to just uh read off
no if you're getting it's okay no keep going I believe that's actually the next slide okay great uming uh finding donors but that should not really take up too much of it possibly host event um selling
something I remember concept I was told was selling seeds so it's on brand like not the stuff not like this we're not going to use seeds we're actually buying plants but like sell like seeds of the types that we're going to be planting to people to try and get some of that money
it's a good idea Alison can you go back to slide six real quick for me sure Charlie is is and this is a learning moment for me is is May like when the best time to plant the pollinator Garden I believe because that's in the spring and it's one of the
few weekends I'm I would be available and um thank you any other questions Charlie I just Charlie I just want to add that I heard Charlie uh introduce this at the rec committee which she did a great job there as well
um and that he is Buy in from the Green Team and from a bunch of different groups in town the third sheet Trail so I think that's an important note that he has the support of the local groups as well I have this which is a sign which shows which is already at one that's there it shows the
plants yeah um Charlie can I ask you one question in terms of watering the garden do you have volunteers to help with that uh yes volunteers uh uh have a going have a whole system set up to
that and I noticed you were using um drought resistant plants plants that require little maintenance so that should help and well the watering it will only be needed for the first summer great Charli deer have you guys thought about the deer I'm sure you have uh well
there is going to be bensing around it help with that is the one be there Charlie I think it looks great from everyone right no thank you for doing this and best of luck with the project does anyone have a motion to
approve uh all in favor anyone opposed congratulations thank you uh our next Workshop is our 2025 uh fairin Farmers Market I think I see Anna back there I see oh I see all three of them all
right nice to see you all again some stuff that maybe a few of us can share know I [Music] you weren kidding you're really we did um we are back planning for the 25
season it's kicking off May 10 we are the second Saturday of every month so it's second Saturday every month so there's no questioning what it is consistent this year um we're here to talk about specifically the conversation
that we had last May about liquor and beer sales at the farmers market we got approved by council with some stipulations to sell beer we had a vendor join us um who ultimately had to
shut for other reasons so they did not come back to the market um but we kind of did a little more research about allowing vendors who sell Mead no wine me is different than line there's no VY
in your different if we were in like hburg but we're not so it's beer um one of our current vendors sells um mixed drinks but vbl they sell right now they sell the um the mixer but they would be able to sell distilled liquor and then
um me we just had someone reach had to DJ a few weeks ago to um inquire about joining the market so we wanted to really bring this back up again to see if there's uh any more consideration that we could have so with that we did more research and came a little bit more pred as to what that entails from the
ABC and they have as you can see um they've made a stipulation for uh off- premise consumption to V to as a vendor as a liquor vendor under their um special ruling SR20 21-1 so they would be required to
hold those permits which they all do because they all go to other farmers markets to sell and a lot of the back and forth that we had the last time we were here discussing this was about the tastings about the um you know who's responsible for keeping track of this what does it say about the market and we
we just want this to be looked at a little differently under this ruling that they've applied to themselves because this puts the onus on the vendors it stipulates specifically by category how many ounces they are
allowed to that vendors are allowed to serve and patrons are allowed to taste where they are supposed to be tasting them if they should be iding it absolves the burrow it absolves Council from any of these issues that we were we had no
idea this was the case so you know our apologies for coming unprepared for that we wanted to come back a little more prepared we just had a really successful season a lot of that can be um the credit could be on the weather which we had nothing to do with but um it was a
very popular event so we want to continue to build we think that by bringing these groups into it it would allow more vendors to you know look at the market as a really Diversified place for businesses to come so that's kind of what we're thinking um I had a good conversation with Josh about it and we
decided um it could be good to leave with a cap on those vendors so that it doesn't oversaturate what the market is right now it's not going to be a Booze Fest it's going to be three vendors um a hand picked by us and make sure that they're following these rules and we can you know with your blessing try it for
at least a season to make sure that nothing gets out of hand we will obviously you know change things if things if it all of a sudden becomes something crazy we would change it um we did speak to Chief he was I see her sorry on spot she you know it's um
something that the police will be a part of as they're at the market the entire time too so um you know the last time we were one of the last times we were here it was one of the things that was brought up was well you know you said you have you said no dogs and we saw dogs and
then there were no dogs you know we're we're kind of keeping things going as the we're building the plane as we're flying it but I think we're really responsive when those things come into play and we just want the opportunity to to bring better vendors into the market
so um my my questions prev vendors allow per season is that going to be three vendors at every Market is that probably the way that you look at it or okay um and is and is there a plan other markets that do this someone gets a sample do
they get a stamp on their hand or something to prevent yeah I think if someone keeps coming back four or five times the vendor will be like you're we're good here it really is at their discretion they have the ability to card they have the
ability you do the tastings at the booth and then you can buy a six-pack and keep walking um if people keep going back I mean like we've said since the beginning they're the vendors are the ones that know this a lot better than we really do
so uh before other questions Andrew do you see concerns or no I mean I I'll work with GL guys early so we can work through some of the issues that I obviously have um one of the things of concern is I don't know if when the last
time you guys had the discussion I don't believe you guys spoke about or approved that there would be tastings I thought it was going to be packaged goods and then they move on that's what we did last my memory is good got it it's a bit of a deal breaker
for people to come and just sell without especially me I mean I don't know what me is so it would be beneficial to the business if you allowed people to taste food people have samples people buy the food like this happens at farmers markets everywhere so we're just asking
for it they're going to be the standard a lot of the vendors sell at Red Bank they're in Atlantic Highlands so it's it's really I mean unless rson does get their app together which we've heard that the market may happen there
um it would be us probably without those are you aware of any incidents I ask a question were you are you aware of any fome outbreaks or incidents in other communities that have
yeah and I think one in the built-in controls here is the pharmac market is from 9 to 12 um and I'm personally in comfortable trying it as a pilot you know a season flies by you guys do a really good job I know you're all out there and it's very well run so it's not
as though we set up stalls walk in your vendors and walk away I know that you're there um and so I'm very mindful of everything you know including dogs um and certainly if anything we're to which I just don't see happening I
think the reason the state law allows for it is because there's some built-in economics to this so um I'm comfortable giving it a try yeah it's quite controlled I think that the vendors they see it week in and week out so they're the ones that really know
how to handle the situation and the um it's a packaged good so then they sell it it's not opened it's sold and they you know they go when's the first Market again what is a plary license pler
pler that's uh yeah it must be some like specific Winery I don't know what the dis what is our our res like has um I have a question I think it's really actually more for
Andrew I'm just on the Attorney General's website just trying so I know you said it absolves us from anything legal but do they have to get any other permits from us to have alcohol in that space I believe Allison right didn't we contact ABC ABC does the permitting for
this right you can deny it if you're not comfortable with it as you did last or you can let it go and if there's some incident that you don't agree with like it's back to you that you're concerned about you can have the ABC revoke that portion of
but they have to go to ABC again it's directly through ABC okay I have the same question as councilwoman Cole but for the chief have you have you heard in the other communities from talking with other police Chiefs can't can't take it walk around
they have to have taste g a cup back I don't see any problem I haven't heard any problem you haven't heard the chief of Red Bank or anything okay does um ABC gives a permit is it a permit for the season does that work yes
so just throwing it out an idea what if we were to approve it for the First Market see how it goes and they call a Cinco de May Market you know May 10th see how it goes assuming there's no problems we could then just extend them through the rest
of the year does that create a problem with the permitting with ABC where they have to go back to ABC a second time no because we would ISS we would have ABC would issue it you would allow it and then you could go in the next meeting and revoke it yeah but and also I just have to say
though I my guess is that it might be a challenge for the vendors though because you want them to commit for the you want commit for the whole year you don't think they do that can try it we offer price we offer discounted you know if they pay up front it's better for them financially for the
fees so all in it also like you know it's just easier for everyone we have to there's a health certificate that's involved with the on County Health commission so there's a few different like logistical things I mean if that's what it takes I'm sure they would
understand I also I also sign off on it and we can remoke that problem yeah so so we this goes directly through ABC doesn't thr us at all we can revoke but we can revoke it but we don't sign off
it just they apply ABC has so many a week or two to consider it unless they hear different from much so I guess I hear that but I also we revoke it you have a some sort of agreement with the vendor that now you have an issue with
we refund them the remainder the balance okay anyone else I have a few questions I just was going to say I'm fully supportive I think the Farmers Market has done a tremendous amount of greatness for lack of
a for the community and I'd love to see us build upon it so let us know what you need I think it's great I agree full support just have some questions um are your contracts with the vendors specific to these three categories going to change like are you
going to is there additional insurance as required is there are you going to put that they have to be comp with State per they carry this this is not this is not us like leveling it on if they come to us they have to carry this right so what I'm what I'm asking is is how are
you going to verify that right I'm not trying to be funny right like I agree gonna get the permits gonna look at them do they have to put them out on their like booths that people walk by I don't know if they have to that's not something that would require health inspector he shows up and checks
everything for all of them the ABC the onus is on them they don't have to show up but they can and they can ask check check but so we won't do that copy that okay so then require them to send us the confirmed permits all that for all our
vendors Who's chief this might be a question for you right ensuring proper age and carding and underage drinking who's responsible to enforce that for this the vendor for sr2 they'll get in trouble 211 so there is absolutely zero
oversight zero that both the burrow and the not you guys aren't a 51 secy forgive me C4 501 C4 there's absolutely zero oversight that that the burrow or they have to worry about whatsoever I yes I
okay well I find that well wait the burrow won't be having wouldn't have oversight if it's what is proposed by the Farmers Market however as far as liability that that comes a different question I'm talking enforcement of compliance right I'm talking enforcement
of following the rules like to say if the police the police are always at F Market weay they have to yeah there something they're going to have to go around there's I just want to protect obviously you guys because you guys are crushing it right and I want to protect
the burrow and to say that like zero oversight doesn't to me that just doesn't pass the sniff test when you look at any any really private or public sector contract right some onus of liability if if these
vendors don't comply there is some onus that falls back ABC so ABC then takes care they signing off to the ABC that they're going to be in compliance with Sr I just I don't haven't had all the experience all but based on my experience there's never a situation
where and you're friends until you're not and you're friends until a situation comes up right so I've never been part of a contract where the owners have full um we live in a litigious Society I I
think that's why I was saying the stamp I don't think that most people are going to do this but in reading this I mean they could technically drink 12 ounces of beer they could go to the next spot and they could drink 6 ounces of wine and then they can go get one and a half
oz a hard liquor and it's all legal and they get in their car and something happens and they're going to say well you know the burough signed off on I'm not sure that's enough to be legally drunk I don't think you need to be legally drunk you know you have alcohol in your system and I think it all
depends on the person you know I mean one person that you might not be legally drug you might get somebody can't handle their alcohol and you know have their size they are so real I I just want to bring it back right I like I don't want to like argue like sr220 D1 what I'm going to ask our lawyer is is if we can
please ensure that we've exhausted where liability exists should there be an incident both for them as a C4 Corp and both for us as the burrow I will do my best to limit the liability yeah you're not it's not going to be something
happens we're getting suit 100% I I can PR much guarantee case of someone was allergic to cheese and they at cheese like you know that's the case with we're talking about alcohol but it could be anything at the question is then you drink no you have cheese you're
only harming yourself is this is this an extent are you are we buying this to all Fair Haven events because I've been toir Haven we do have this same discussion um for fairen day and I believe that we check the
IDS we we fence in the the location where you're supposed to consume alcohol this is more of a thisly take this you must take this sample in front of a vendor I mean we're not we're not serving we're not tapping
kegs at this Market this please please don't misconstrue my comp I'm not misconstruing I just want this to be Equitable across 100% right the the the primary difference here though compared to Fair Haven day is you are signing individual contracts with individual
vendors right and so adding the adding a contract cont ra between a business and a 501c4 and then hinging the 501c4 with the burrow adds a level of complexity where we just need to ensure the liability is addressed that fairen to
Fair the same thing it's Foundation of Fair Haven they're signing contracts with each vendor sh is yeah the Brewers are signing contracts with Fair Haven found Fair Haven who is make the same statement with Fair all I'm saying say it is similar what you say 100% all I'm
saying is I want to make sure the liability so we don't get ourselves not ours but another one that serves beer samples it's yeah it's all I mean I get that you have to be concerned about the liability but can I ask a question so Chief if a if one of your
guys girl women go to sees an that someone seems like they're underage and they're drinking absolutely stop they Sol them and then that vendor gets in trouble that's that vendor certainly yeah well depends if they had a fake
idea we do the does this require a motion yes we we would need a motion to approve okay I'll make a motion are you moving you're staying on Willow Street correct it's not going to be in the Parks or anything because then we we're making a motion to approve it
right now would be more comfortable if we checked out the line absolutely okay I will highly advise you to not pass a motion right now well it could be conditional on what your findings I have to review their insurance policy I have
to button this up for us I mean you know it sounds just from where I'm sitting it sounds like everyone's sort of in favor of it just let me do you got do some due diligence I'll put it on the agenda for the next meeting assuming there's no issues to vote on if there are issues
I'll Workshop it so we can then thanks oh and the next meeting is at um nolwood during the day I for some reason if if for some reason it it it it
needs a workshop and you can't make the meeting and I need to push in another meeting we'll have that discussion open all right thank you all right next up we have a discussion workshop on love where you live day um which we're talking about April
27th Kelly and thank you to all the scout especially you Charlie and the other Charlie too do you want to give them a minute just to leave so they're not distrac thanks Charlie thanks Charlie good job hi uh kellyan 2233
Street uh so we are just uh seeking Council of approval for uh love where you live Dave uh Again Sports annual uh will be taking place on Sunday April 27th from 1: to 4 p.m. that's where we're asking for a proposal um and we
would like to do it in front of or nearby marter park um and Willow Street as well in front of the school since that's become associated as a town meeting spot with a the success of the fairh fer Market um we are seeking for
that to be the location um for this year so we can have um in the the street as well as on the adjacent Park we've spoken with Chief McGovern who um The Fair Haven p is supportive of our uh decision um depending on what we've come
back with whether the the closure of that um of the street also we' reach out to homeowners as well to make sure they're all on board with this and be um sensitive to that inconvenience um or if it's solely going to be on the park as well but um he said I'll support and
provide police officers and barcades for that event also coordinated with DPW yes so the thing that we were also asking and seeking for and we've been into discussion with Chris um Nick and U as well is because we were looking for tables and chairs for DPW trash
recycling um and I believe that is it we just uh would also last year we had do bendas there for food we just want to make sure that you know with everything with town if we were to have another food vendor there and invite them back again that's okay
with the town as well um so if there's any insurance or anything I you know for the food Alison do we have to do that we need to get a license
right so they need to apply for that or no and the tables and all that stuff you want to put on Willis Street or you want to put it in the park um so depending uh we would like depending on how many vendors we have that's committed um we would like to have some on the street we
are uh getting the mmth hope to get some of the mmth conservation F uh Foundation their B their education conservation b as well um we've had the MTH County Parks and their B so we thought it would be good to have some presence on the street as well since we also are
encouraging and promoting bike riding um sense of food as well can set up some tables right there um and they have like a food truck so that would be good for that um and we would do some tables on the street and some just kind of nearby
that path along the path in M uh Park so um the issue would be of just you know the tables and the chairs and is that bir day it is the culmination of Earth Day that's Earth week so um thought that would be a good highlight we're doing some school work
with the pollinator Garden in front ofle School working with the school so that' be a good timee as well um we planted some trees are last year that the shade tree uh wanted to highlight and also do a big tree like a tree hunt yeah the sh Tre commission has discussed some sort of scavenger
oring the treat in partun and we also spoke with Chief right about potentially shutting down Willow if it makes sense just you would have a barricades on both ends as well um it's just also a very visible location site too um it's right
centrally located to town you've got access to parking spots um you know as well so you a new playground yeah well was thinking it would be good for re re could have a a table there to showcase the new playground I I mean obviously I
support you guys because I'm a big fan um but the only question I had was just I know we emphasized for people we try to get people to ride their bikes but if there did need some parking for vendor parking I would just be aware of maybe keeping some of the street available to
parking just so that they have somewhere to park because there right that where the school is so you have that parking before yeah yeah BL pretty much same way we do the yeah I know the vors you you prove
it then we'll take I love it I mean I think it's great that we're highlighting like another of our open spaces and another resource that we have in town and we've spoken with Farmers Market as well they're very much in support we also just highlight we can promote the schedule of upcoming farmers markets as well um just one
question I have um I know I've reached out you you and I been an email conversations back for so Nick Pinsky is also in the loop on this as well as far as DPW involvement just one question who's be paying for DPW over time PD over time well that's question um you
know this is always this is our fourth year have that's we've done it um we hope that we get support from the burrow um you know last year we had an issue yeah not well we just hope that I know it's the tables and chairs are the big
issue Rich do you remember with the new contract with DPW what days they had remember because originally they were taking comp time versus overtime but I don't know if it called
out number events from you'd have to ask the school and then that also the school would need to make sure somebody's on staff on Sunday so the reason I asked about Earth is probably uh not going to happen but was
there any thought to doing on the same day as the first farmers market to drive attendees into the park for for both things at the same time and then we already have people working yeah I'm not looking to push them on you or you on
them I was just trying to figure out right okay you thought about it yeah this is one of the few if in correct me I don't know that there's a budget for the Green Team there is a
budget there's a what is do we have enough it's under the environmental commission um but there's definitely a budget is it 2,000 I think sounds about right yeah so this is like parks and wreck
ping DPW and P because Green Team well green team is a piece of government as is Parks and w I was just trying to clarify exactly how those funds would move or what what that would even look like so the Parks and Rec Department is the piece of government serves the Green
Team and the environmental commission okay but they each have their own budget right so well that's what I kind of was asking because for years there was no there was no M you know the years that I was leaing so um nor would I know even if there was a budget technically how
government would move money from one Department to another it's the not beneficial but I would defer to our B administrator why would we move it I well I don't
think here yeah what we can do is add we could charge the funds we could charge the cost to their budget te budget I'll leave that to the
staff en commission or Green Team needs to understand that their funds are going towards that and how much do you know ballpark what that might be depend on the number of hours I think it's $75 for 20 crash crash cans in the in the
fee schedule way more than you would ever need it's more the maybe we can figure it out if if you're going to do it on Willow Street and chief correct me if I'm wrong then you would need a police officer it is directly for the B the
Saturday really the call would be I guess the chairs but um are you able to put out employes right employ are you able to maybe put them out on Friday and Monday that's what they were doing at B sentennial homeall the thing was we had inside to keep
them but T I don't know so I think so so real quick right I want I want to Buck into two things right the the the the approval and consensus on holding lovey live day on Willow Street the second piece that we're talking about are the
two funding components from what Chief said there's no cost from police perspective we have an open question on the DPW contract if this is one of those things that is going to be covered by funds or by comp time I think we need to answer that before we can speculate any further so i' like
[Music] the teamers I don't I'm fuzzy on it so it's special event they allowed to they get D on and this would be a event yeah again I'm still fuzzy because I remember so I I
think if we separate one one is support of the event and two it sounds like we need to get some more information on the on the cost aspect of it and I think we can resolve the cost aspect of it I to our staff for that information not volunteers 1,00% yeah I mean Kelly and Chris have been communicating for the
last 6 weeks on this right so and so it's Nick Pinsky and chief so I'd like to separate the two and if find something significant from the finance comes up which I don't foresee we'll make sure to engage with finance committee and Nancy Etc and and address it accordingly I'm with that plan yes so
do we need a motion I think we need a motion to approve the day and the date and the location motion to approve the day the date location second second second all in favor I anyone oppos thank you thank
you yeah looking forward to April 27 all right next up we have a workshop on the proposed open space tax Council uh broke Burl council president cotch and uh our CFO Nancy
BR I don't think I've ever send your last name you want let's let's put the PowerPoint up you can stand up yeah sure I'm not going to you don't want me toix all right so um councilwoman cot
came to me and wanted to talk about open space TXS and and her interest in potentially pursuing it so we put together some information Fair Haven open space [Music] good [Music]
job so open space how can we protect and maintain the open space that currently exists in Fair Haven just um so before we get into where we want to protect what is open space so open space is any underdeveloped areas
with no or few buildings things Parks um parks are public areas Parks or public areas designated as such by local government public property that has been improved or parly developed but is currently underutilized Sports fields
are considered open space in Jersey since they are used for recreation and since this was created I did come to realize that places like big Hall are also because it's a for preservation it also comes under open space
so you can read I can read them for you but you can read those are all of the areas that we have that would be U we would be able to spend open space funds to maintain and improve and I do have Bicentennial Hall on there yep and Memorial Park yes oh and we can add
Memorial Park no why um and that's based on like a definition is it is the definition black like very clear what falls in the category and what falls out it's actually pretty wide um um because anything so all of these there's either
a field it's definitely open space Natural Area Mar of Pond mcarter Park it's it's a recreational field so any of that will fit into open space anything that's not being used for like a business um what I'm sorry can I just make
recommendation that nany gets through this and then we ask some questions okay I just want to make sure we okay uh yeah so why open space matters that's really small and I can't read it uh provides recreational opportunities for all residents preserves history by sat
tennial H uh enhances the beauty of our town reduces noise and air population storm water management which we all know is huge uh maintains and improves quality of life and you know I know this talk we mentioned this in the first one Recreation for all residents but it
really is all residents you know somebody who is a little bit older not able to get around so much they can still go walk the bird sanctuary and you know be part of nature walk Third Street Trail then you know obviously the parks for the kids so really from a very young
age to a very old age be Haven has wonderful Open Spaces that really provide access to the entire Community thank you very I just need my glasses um okay so local financing there's a
couple of ways that we can hand handle our our open space needs uh we can Bond or bonds or dedicated taxes so dedicated tax would be an open space tax in the past we have adopted these measures um this say an unprecedented numbers but
let's just talk about some realistic you know examples uh open space we were able to get $250,000 towards the purchase of 21 Fair Haven um for um what we going to blank
14 yes the uh Waterfront Batman Grange and Hance we got I want to say 500,000 towards where's that cost yeah we're going to be able to build the new park that we want it's part of open school so
all like there's there's funding out there however those all come with restrictions specific to the projects that the money is for um we would have to go to through a ballot measure to create open SP open space Trust funds uh
which has been particularly popular 440 out of 562 municipalities which is nearly 80% have voted yes by ballot by voters in the LA past 30 years to approve an open space tax and some of our local neighbors would be little silver Shrewsberry Red Bank Oceanport
Middletown chitten Falls um have all pass and open space tax and I can speak from um experience in to Falls introducing that tax we had a a track to land off of um Riverdale close to Colts
Neck that just sort of sat there really no improvements on it we they used some open space funds to improve it there's soccer fields there's walking trails there's you know a small playground for the kids same thing with the soccer um complex on Sycamore there's new softball
fields back there all of that has come from the town's open space tax so it's really helping my town so not bring up to ball there we are um what are some of the benefits to Fair Haven we can convert unused parcel
of land to Green Space for example a third street trail on a different slide don't mean to interrupt but I just don't see that slide next slide um restore Forest Meadows woodlands and waterways so the Natural Area um and any other place that might
fit increase biodiversity mitigate flooding fun parks and recreation recreational Fields upgrades and maintenance preser preserve historical structures and the residents would dictate the funding priorities um so they would have to agree to do
this here are some numbers for you number people so we gave you um a next slide please we gave you a breakdown of a half a penny a penny and a penny and a half so the average that I've seen is usually
about a penny Penny and a half there are some towns that have up to a six six cent test tax um so this tax is based on the 2025 net valuation taxable so that's all the property in the bur
of it's a really large number 2 b753 m215 26 um so that would bring in a hat with penny for the first year approximately $138,000 and you can see the rest from there now how would this affect our
residents so the average residential incre average res residential assessment of 1 point we'll say 1.3 round numbers um the increase would be and a penny would be $ 6643 for the year
13285 for a full Penny And1 19928 for a penny and a half see that's what I'm doing I didn't page so I was done [Music] sorry it's a little confusing to do both
um so ballot measures give voters a direct opportunity to make judgments on the amount purposes Municipal spending for land conservation they represent a powerful way to give voters the chance to weigh in on their community's F future and then if the governing body is
in agreement to pursue the just looking into it there's no commitment whatsoever just looking into it with approval we would send a survey that the residents plan at least two open houses House events sorry plan at least two Open
House events to obtain feedback workshop with Council as often as you need and then if at the end the council agrees that we've gotten enough feedback and they feel something they want to move forward to a resolution to approve the referendum sorry that was messy I want
to one thing I didn't have a chance to put put in the the slot but I've spoken with several Community groups Sean Bailey texted me today and said the environmental commission is very much interested in participating in
this discussion and being part of the plan uh the Harding bird sanctuary uh the beautification committee um I believe Tracy I think you told me the green team is interested so there appears to be a great deal of support in
our community organizations for this type ofoam to revenue so what I would like to say with my CFO hat on is our budget's TI right we all know that um but we do
have these beautiful natural areas that we want to maintain and 21 fairen road that we want to improve and with even if we get grants for these things we still need to maintain them as the time goes on um and
one of the best ways to do that is through an open space tax an open space tax would come into the burrow it would immediately go through a trust fund and the only thing that it can be used for is open spaced expenses so that could possibly
be um one of our DPW workers who it just works on the parks part of his salary could come out of there some of the supplies for the parks could come out of there but more importantly is we'd be able to have some funds to do things with our things that
residents have expressed interest in and especially in the last year we would have some funds to be able to help get these things off the ground get these projects that they really want to see happen thank you uh D yeah you know one of the things that I
have several thoughts about all of this and I'm I should start by thanking Betsy and and Nancy for your help and initiating a conversation I imagine this might be something we come back to more than once but um I
think it's really good we're talking about it one one of the things I know when I think about our inventory of open space is um when it falls into state of neglect you know that that um downward
spiral happens quickly it multiplies upon itself and you know before you know it it feels like it's a place where people are going to dump and we get mosquitoes and we have have lots of invasives to compete with and so what if not for invasives and neglect it would
be an amenity and something beautiful to look at and participate in and commune with so I see a struggle with the funding to plan and design just to prepare a Grant
application is I know we have a funding partner with the county and we're really good at getting those funds and they're fully committed to fair and every other municipality so but we still have to meet the match and just to apply we still have to hire the professionals prepare the drawings and do the P
Outreach and get the Buy in and you know all of those soft costs um we struggle to find the money to do that so even though the grant money is out there we still have expenses just to secure that grant money and this fund um would really help provide
that well and you could use it for matching exactly yeah I'm sorry if I didn't say that clearly yeah it would help provide the application is is a competitive application it's well prepared and we could afford it if we
add something like this um I am cautious about um adding any kind of tax or assessment our residents pay a lot in taxes and I do recognize our budget constraints as well I know the community
loves these natural resources so well that's the beauty of the open space tax is it's determined by a referendum which is exactly the residents are saying yes or no so um and I'm not really addressing my comments just to you Nancy
I okay this is me representing so really for everyone to hear um I would like to suggest if um the council wants to continue talking about this with the community that it would be a good idea to maybe even have this
slideshow available for those other boards commissions and any committees that want to participate whether that happens at the open house or at their meeting dates yeah um I'll be happy to help and attend or do whatever I can I'm very interested in hearing what the community thinks about it um my last
thought I wanted to share was I think the timing is important if we did decide to go ahead with something like this and I think there should be a card out for commercial properties of which we do not have very many but um for commercial property owners who don't live here it
would be like taxation without representation because they're not even able to vote on it but I don't know if that's of course it is so we would have to look at two things and if they're either they're either a property owner who doesn't live here or they're a
property owner that does live here in which case they're going to be paying the assessment as a private property owner a residential uh property owner um instead of getting a double assessment on Commercial and and their private home there's no way for them to get twice the
enjoyment so it would seem unfair for them to pay twice the assessment um but I think that helps to also give us plenty of rable Base there there's a very limited number of properties in the commercial area so food for that was
just my two cents for now I have a handful of questions my best to answer appreciate it and we might be able to answer all these and if we can't today that's okay um who is the ultimate body that decides
what is considered open space as far as in the burrow or in in The Ether in The Ether that governs State I believe there's a an organization in the state that deter s and then who maintains the list and how are items added and removed like is
there is there a list and if you want to add stuff on you have to go through your process to make sure it meets a certain criteria if you want to take stuff off do you have to make a justifications to why that's a really good question and I don't I so what I did read as far as open space I didn't read anything about
having to provide anybody a list okay so it's yeah no I'm talking about the second PowerPoint side that showed every item that was considered open space like that's a list how can we how do we spend money that was taken from the like from
an open space document about and that that's but I I don't remember seeing that we had provide them a list of our open space Che understood um uh two-part question so out of those um and and this might be data you can
send us for the 450 plus towns that have done the last 30 years do we know when they did it and what their rate of increase in the tax has been right so I can get that information you mind passing that out it' be good just to see where they started and where they
currently are and over the time period that that was um when we receive the funds what is the process to prioritize the use of funds that would be governing body would determine that priorities the governing body at
the time right would determine that yes got it do you what is um do you know our current expenses as of today that we spend on what would be considered open space it's tough to quantify that um Drew because so part of it is personnel
and I don't I don't really know the exact amount of time that you know one person spends at a park I can try and see if Nick can provide that to me um and as far as you know the the parks and and all that we do have our budgets but
some of the budget stuff come I mean I could do my best to try and get that number for you but it it's not we don't have something that that you know pulls everything in and says this is for our part totally get it right and and the reason I'm asking this is at the beginning of the conversation right you
start off with that the budget's tight so in theory right this would create room specific to open space based on the additional tax that we would Levy yes and a perceived room a Perce because the way I Envision an open space
tax is to improve what we have because but this is me I I just want to stop it here though not to get too confrontational you should be presenting the fact it's Betsy's job here to influence okay as
far as this the open space tax itself okay that's you should be influencing or people that are in favor of it should be influencing you should be giving the facts of what the open space tax is and if he ask a question as far as it helps you know would would that move stuff
outside of cap you would say yes that moves stuff outside of can I then weigh in because I was just to answer that so in my mind I I see what you're saying like wiggle room it does give us a little bit but there's a lot of things that we're not maintaining now and like
you know invasives and this would give us a chance to deal tackle storm water management a lot better and lower flooding so in my mind kind of what she was saying it's more gives us money that we that we would never have in the budget and will never probably have in the the reason the re just to put a fine
tooth on right is just because we had 140 Grand right the process to prioritize it the soft cost and all the professionals I need that that doesn't go that doesn't magically get resolved right away right that it's still a question of how do you prioritize the funds where do you focus on and the big
like I saw Fourth Creek on there I mean we could spend you know an absorbent amount of money on Fourth Creek so I just but I think that goes back to priorities 100% right yeah so it's the council that prioritizes it's the council in that specific governing body year the the master plan is a guiding
document if we were to one of the outstanding items called for the is a conservation element so sure that that would provide that sort of road map that would help the it would provide guidance but it doesn't say how the governing body should Vote or shouldn't vote right
and this could pay for Workshop 100% you know bringing the community 100% agreement underwrite that young man's totally yep totally project but even prioritizing the Eagle Scout project versus something else right that's going to be discussion of
my last question is with the 450 plus towns um what Lessons Learned if any did we get from them on implementation of it would they did they say they would have done things differently did did they come in at a half a penny and it wasn't
enough like do anyone have buyers remorse right like saying we should have never did it right like I'm not saying that that's but I'm just it'd be great to learn lessons learned it's nice to know that the Innovation premium for an open space tax here is minimum given a 450 a 00 times did it I I've spoken to
Shrewsberry Oceanport Little Silver and Red Bank all of which have an open space tax and they have all said not not to the point that you're driving lessons learned but they've all said it's had a tremendous effect on their budget it's opened up their budget a little bit but
more importantly they're attacking projects that they could never have afforded yeah and one of the projects I think is 21 fa in road yeah I mean there's no money set aside for that 980 Grand the funds that are Avail the funds
that are currently set aside 20 foot one Fair hav Road based on the ordinance they are only good for the purchase and the preparation of the property St nothing Beyond grading and seing and Improvement that's B passive will be terrible but it does provide fund for
that I'm I'm go with my questions thanks no I mean I'm pretty well versed on this um I do see the benefits and I I personally think that it's great to offer it to the residents to vote on it because ultimately them who's going to be paying for it so and it just seems
like with so many towns around us doing it there must be some good reason me I have um more comments and questions so if you yeah I'm I'm just uh I'm going to voice the fact that this is the third time since since I've been
maying that we're discussing this um My Views are the same as they were the first two times I see I see the benefits of the tax I actually think the main benefit um is the Appropriations cap relief that you get unfortunately I think that human nature dictates that
you end up spending back up to the cap um once you get that that vacuum that room uh by moving some of those purchases outside the bucket uh um I also would like to say um that
ultimately we could keep putting the word open space in front of it to make it sound nicer but it's a tax it's a tax and my job as mayor I speak to Residents all the time and and yes I I hear from them you know we need to improve shrank respond I mean but the main thing I hear
is taxes all the time and I want to make sure that everyone understands as part of the cont of context of this discussion it's not necessarily that I'm against the open space tax as it is I still don't think the timing is right when we last talked about it about two
years ago we had the facilities project coming down the pipe um those taxes are going to hit hit your statements uh next year that's when they're going to hit 2026 in addition to that I think you all know that the schools are having a conversation right
now about a potential referendum hopefully they don't need don't have the need for that but me personally I'd like to see that through I pay an exorbitant amount of taxes for my own house right now and I don't have any kids in school and a lot of those taxes are going to
the schools and I'm certainly not complaining about the schools I mean for the reason my kids got such a great education but to just keep on adding on to the taxes I just I don't think the timing is right until we have a full picture of of what's going on here and I
just don't want to price our residents out of their houses at a time when um you know having nothing to do with our town you know prices are high and people are trying to make ends meet and uh I just don't want to be the person to tell them that they can't live in Fair Haven
anymore so that that's that's the uh the reason that I think we've made tough decisions like recycling that that you know have been tough on our community um and we haven't taken the easy way out we we've addressed the system the way it is
and I would actually encourage our residents that you know if they don't like my position I I tell them to write emails to their state representatives and tell them to loosen up the Appropriations cap restrictions that are are um affecting us so that that's um my
position on this and um I appreciate the opportunity to provide it to everyone can I just respond to or just kind of ask that um it seems you said we wouldn't have to make we had to make tough choices about recycling but with this tax I actually think that might put some of the burden
off of making those very difficult decisions because we would have more money in the pot four maintenance of things that we're already doing potentially or DPW staff and all of that so it would take some of the burden off so if we took it off that's exact that's what I'm saying is if we took it off we
would have done the recycling then and then we just would have went right back up to the top of the cap why is it terrible to be closer to the to top of the cap if we're able to then give the residents everything that they not everything want but more of what we wanted because people weren't happy about their recycling they're not happy about the fact that there's invasives
all over our treeses they're not happy about the fact that marter pond is covered in whatever it's covered in so this would help us with marter pond because we keep going back and forth like where are we getting this money from mcarter pond we don't have a plan for that right now so this could
potentially help with mcarter Pond it could help with the invasive it could help with the Third Street Trail where we have all volunteers 100% to we have a a volunteer that's volunteering her water for the thiry trail so we could make a water source for the thiry trail there's so many endless things and I
feel like honestly that's one of the reasons I ran for office because I felt like we weren't maintaining our public spaces so um I first of all as everyone knows I stood before the governing body three years ago and asked for $1.5 million to get a Turf on the field so I've been
researching open space tax for the past three years I'm very very um well versed in this and you know and again I'm all in favor of maintaining our space I I I'm also in favor of allowing residents to weigh in on something the the issue I have is that making a decision on a
ballot in isolation without all of the other information is a dangerous path and we as governing body members have an obligation to make sure people are aware of tax increases that what might be going on with the schools right it's just like mcaro Pond if you ask somebody
do you want to save M Carter Pond first they're going to say yes right who doesn't want to save M car pond but then you go into let's talk about what that's actually going to entail and so you know I I I struggle with the fact that hey yes maybe it's $66 66 I think you said
in the first year go average homeowner average homeowner right but then it go right and it goes up each year let's just say no it will likely give give what it has to be voted on if there's an increase right from a half a penny to a penny that would have to I'm saying are
the tax rates up saying oh I see the Val the other thing is we don't actually get the money Nancy thank you you've been helping me tremendously and Gathering some facts that if we were to vote on this this year we at the
earliest would get the money in 2027 and so there's a likelihood that this tax will be in place for a long time you asked about other towns Atlantic Highlands and Middletown just voted for a second open space tax they didn't accomplish what they wanted to accomplish the first go around so it's a
it's a with SE significant long-term implications like if you're saying they get they needed more money they need more money Kristen is the second vote a vote by the governing body or referendum ref so every increase is always a referend so mid 10 you're saying voted twice to say
okay because they didn't meet what they they didn't achieve what they wanted to achieve their first goal around but the is high as at a higher rate and they voted it in though yeah they voted it in so that's kind the point that's this my point is that there
this is this is going to be going on for a long time we also have no foresight into what's going on with the school we have no foresight right now as to what we're going to need build for facilities so I'm all in favor of maintaining our public spaces but I would like us to take a harder look at our current budget
we've already as everyone knows Michael let me talk we've had mult instances this year thanks to the due diligence we now have put oversight on our budget where we have fun covered funds I'm not convinced that we've like totally exhausted our resources and I
think we should um and you know on top of that there are other Green Acres options it's not just grants we can take out a 0% interest loan you know there are other Partnerships I sat on a webinar and learned all about it so my thought is I agree on the timing I don't
think it's ideal right now I'm not not saying I'm against it forever but I don't think the timing is right and I don't think it's fair of the residents to ask them in isolation to vote on something when they don't have a full context of what's going on in our town may may I just respond to your last statement sure they would not be voting
in isolation because part of the next first of all the the point of today is to bring it up and to see if there's an appetite by the council four out of six people to say let's proceed and continue with the investigation not to say it's
deal but what but but are we making a decision tonight as to whether or not to put it on the ballot no I hope not I'm not ready to do that no I what what I would like to see happen in next steps is not to have voters vote in isolation
but to have a series of open houses to to um educate the public on what the advantages and disadvantages are to an open space tax so that when they do go to vote they're educated and they know what they're voting for can I make a
comment sure so we had multiple open houses on the garbage recycling situation right where Drew Drew and I we met in the morning you know 30 people would show up um we had a conversation upstairs the other day where we asked
bettyanne what the number one call that she gets is and it's about Recycling and garbage and no one knows why we did it or what the reason was and what so so we could have 36 open hous houses here I don't think that that's going to
properly inform um potentially 49% of the population that the other 51% are about to pass an additional tax on them I'm just the open houses I don't I don't think it educates but the entire Community that's what I'm saying so I
mean I I hear that but at the same time like how do we then get the community involved in any decisions that we make so I mean that's just saying that like they're just not working so we should stop doing them in general but I wanted to or sorry finish ask no I'm sorry I didn't mean to I just want to say you've
made a good point in terms of that there are other options like I the 0% interest loan I would love to hear what are some of the other options that we haven't looked at like I be I think that should be part of this conversation too and we currently have a greena we also as
resents already pay seven last year we paid $700,000 as part of our taxes to Green Acres we also separately as a b have yes we did 700 acre 700 our residents in cumulation last year paid
$700,000 so I just want and we do have an outstanding loan it's almost done almost paid off it's 2034 this is per 125,000 no but then when we actually pay it off it's 2034 I mean I think I'd like to see those things too like what are we
currently paying for what areas that are sort of fall to this category too I think that would be all really good information to have so other options to to pay for it it's a conversation Mark Olson and I had on Third Street Trail is Mark Olson's never been to a Third
Street um you you could do a big Capital project and incorporate everything so you could say I'm going to restore uh faan fields from invasives I'm going to do XYZ at Third Street Trail I'm going to do mcarter Pond I'm
going to um do 21 F Haven Road and do a big Capital project and issue bonds so you could do that sort of like a police station uh Community Center project uh you but you have to do all the homework out front figure exactly what you're going to do bid it out and then you
could bond it there's nothing nothing preventing how would that like how would that help with maintenance of things though because you're doing the project and once the done they you don't have anything pay you can't do maintenance you can't do bonding for maintenance and we don't currently have a lot of funding in our budgets for maintenance and for
planning and for I mean I guess you could and planning usually can't be paid for by a capital project correct planning cost 10 yes okay but and I'm not the expert on bonds obviously so but if we're bonding aren't we ultimately paying a
lot more back so I would love to know the difference between like what the ban of money we're paying back versus like what we're paying up front the open space like a break even analis yeah so you'd be you would be so you would get the benefits
immediately rather than over time and you would pay for it over time rather than um you pay for it over time either way but with a bond you get the benefits Bond ends tax on the ends based on referendum and on bonding there are
costs associated with bonding whereas the open space tax directly into a f there's some small costs with fonding yes but we would we wouldn't get the money now but in 2027 after 2027 then we would annually get the money
correct yes so yeah we wouldn't be able to do anything next year so you you'd be able to do $130,000 of the projects in 20271 130,000 in your 20128 and so accumulate accumulate with a bond you
could do it all in 2026 like we do with facilities yeah we do with facilities but it still leaves out the maintenance part main is not included yes so maintenance would have to work its way part of the reason for doing it yeah so I have some prepared remarks um on this
can I can I ask one question we bond for isn't part of what we bonded for some some near-term maintenance yeah one year the fa projects so that you can have the transition so I'll open with you know my heart is for this very much but my mind
is not um so New Jersey already has some of the highest taxes in the country we rank number one in property taxes number four in income taxes number eight in sales tax and number four in corporate taxes our state and local governments collect more Revenue per capita than
almost any other place in the United States adding an open space tax is not just unnecessary but it would actively make our town less affordable it will reduce our financial dis fiscal discipline and restrict future flexib ility uh we all want to protect our
environment and M maintain a quality of life but an open space tax is the wrong way to do it here's five reasons why number one it makes our town less affordable in two ways uh it reduces the tax base Shifting the burdens to homeowners when land is preserved as
open space it is removed from the tax roles meaning fewer properties contributed to contribute to Municipal revenues the result higher property taxes for remaining land owners disproportionately hurting middle class families and seniors un fixed incomes secondly it limits housing Supply and
development so by permanently restricting the use of land we create artificial scarcity driving up home prices and rents New Jersey already has affordability crisis in housing and adding more restrictions only makes it worse more housing Supply not less is
the key to keeping our communities livable for Working Families secondly it encourages more government spending without addressing core issues governments spend every penny of tax collections an economy can produce plus whatever amount is politically tolerable
and other words total tax capacity is limited creating an open space tax does not increase tax tax capacity only locks spending into specific category reducing the ability of governing bodies to prioritize pressing needs like schools
infrastructure and Public Safety by dedicating funds to open space we are ensuring less flexibility in times of crisis other essential services will have less funding available forcing difficult tradeoffs more money doesn't always solve problems consider the bur Hall
roof it's been leaking for months there's zero opposition to fixing it we have the money yet water continues to to uh fall into the building during rainstorms the problem isn't a lack of funds it's bureaucratic red tape slow processes and limited staff
bandwidth passing an open space tax wouldn't necessarily improve conditions and a green spaces it would just allocate more money to a fund that is subject to the same administrative challenges as other government projects number three it reduces flexibility in future budget deficits governments need
flexibility to respond to economic downturns or unexpected expenses locking tax revenue into a dedicated fund like open space preservation makes it harder to adjust spending when deficits arise because those funds cannot be reallocated to essential Services when a
town has an open space face tax it creates political resistance to raising the general tax levy in times of fiscal stress residents who already see a portion of their tax bill going towards open space preservation will push back against increases in school public
safety or infrastructure funding this rigidity forces municipalities into a corner instead of being able to spread tax burdens evenly they may have to raise other taxes disproportionately or cut essential services to balance the budget number four the open space tax
will only grow over time once implemented taxes rarely stay the same they almost always increase P study is Middletown that came up earlier in 1998 Middletown introduced its open space tax at 1 cent the tax rate was increased in
2002 2020 and 2024 quadrupling to 4 cents this pattern of tax increase shows that what starts as small tax only grows over time adding to the long-term financial burden of residents there insufficient limits on future open space tax increases making
it an Ever growing expense for taxpayers last Point number five New Jersey residents already pay too much in taxes we are one of the worst states for taxations high in every category property tax income tax sales tax corporate tax other states balance
their tax structures Texas has a high property tax but no income tax California has high income taxes but lower property taxes New Jersey New Jersey doesn't balance its tax structure we rank among the highest in all four major tax categories and we still hear that the government needs more our local
governments must learn to operate within existing revenues instead of constantly creating new taxes so the open space tax sounds appealing but the real impact is higher property taxes fewer housing opportunities and continued lack of fiscal discipline and the worst part the tax will only grow over time we've seen
it happen before in Middletown where an open space started at 1 cent and quickly quadrupled once implemented these taxes do not go away they expand and they become permanent burdens on [Music] homeowners more importantly this tax will not fix problems that claims to address just like the bur Hall roof the
issue is in a lack of funds its inefficient government processes and limited administrative bandwidth New Jersey taxpayers are already overburdened and local governments need to find efficiencies rather than adding new taxes we all value open space but we should further we should find smarter
fiscally responsible ways to preserve it not at the cost of making our communities even more unaffordable I cannot support the open space taxs can I can I respond sure um thank you that was very thorough um I have a lot of thoughts so I'm just going to
kind of go through so making the town less affordable I mean it at most it was what 10 and something um whatever it was but like the middle 1 132 so I get for some of the that is can be a lot for someone
in this town the majority people it's probably not we would be asking them to vote on it but then you mentioned that we would have less housing options which leads me to believe that you're saying that you're open to building on some of
our current Open Spaces no but then I don't know how it would be provide less less housing good question the open space tax is meant to to acquire property to make it open space it also it also it also does maintenance you can do that
one of and future governing bodies could use that tax revenue to buy property 21 Fair Haven Road for example yeah 21 fairen Road used to pay taxes they no longer do yeah right and so then that's that tax spread out many people on this
D did vote for that so yes and now we have it what are we how are we maintaining that I don't want to create a Pac-Man that's going to be buying property around town but I don't think that that but that's not the the main you're pulling that piece out but the majority of this is to help maintain the
existing open space so in the fear that we might future governing bodies might buy property to make it open space they can but then but in the meantime we're stopping bringing in M we understand your interpretation I did I not
interpretation the actual that you can use it for no but what I'm saying is um which is what we discussed two years ago was we even discussed doing this just to do a carve out for the appropriation a cap and and basically uh agreeing not to
spend the Gap in the dollars but what we noticed is future governing bodies are going to get there and they're going to see that Gap and when they need it they're going to spend it just as future governing bodies could potentially see that open space money and do the Pacman
that obviously you do not want to do and I don't think there's anyone up here that has that approach but it doesn't mean that future people that sit on the deis won't be enabled by the opportunity to do that but again I kind of feel like we're worried about what might happen
and not worrying about what is allowed but then not dealing with things we know we happening right now we know we don't have money for 21 TR Road besides the taking down the building we have no money we don't have any in this budget we're probably not going to have any money in the next budget so we also know
we're not maintaining our natural Fields as well as we could be you know like we're not maintaining Third Street Trails so I just feel like worried about what might happen in the future I'm not saying I'm 100% for this tax but it seems that like we know we have a problem right now
and this could be a solution for it so before we're like cutting off our feet or whatever before we even get a chance to deal with this so then my other things were um that because um I agree with the threat of the Pacman and our appetite
for open space I surely hope has been uh satisfied but when we if we choose to put this one referend before the public it can stipulate that those funds may never be used for
acquisition do we know that's true you can you can set change well you know that have to go back to a refer affortable housing that developers are trying to buy land for much less
21 fairing Road was supposed to be the last of the last of the I think it will be I'm not I'm not saying that's the directions headed but you look at Middletown and they said I'm sure if we went back to the 1998 minutes they pitched it it's just half a penny it's just half a penny they've been back to
The Ballot Box four times but they kept voting four times so that's where like well Al also though Middletown um you know the the amount per resident that they're putting towards their schools I'm sure is much less we're running an entire school system for you know 7,000
residents here um I don't know what the population is Middletown but I'm sure it's in the 100,000 sech I think that passing an open space tax would make it harder for the school to solve the problem that they have how because the tax capacity is limited and we're going to eat some of it up and they're going to go to the voters and the voters are
going to already feel this tax on top of what they have now and say I don't want and the facility and the facility can you I lost you so the I think the capacity that it that a an economy will pay is is tapped at the tax capacity
right so they will they will only pay an x amount of taxes okay right and that may fluctuate a little with the economy or whatever but generally it's fixed and so if we come in it's fixed I think generally it's fixed yes or a theory you have at any point in time I think it's
fixed as a as an like a a theory or an opinion you have about just just from looking at the balance sheets of 10,000 municipalities over 30 years like I notic we don't get to say most of the taxes we pay clearly not fix just looking at lots and lots of tax fights
over the years I think it's sort of fixed and so if we let's just to to to make the point we'll go extreme let's say we were going to tax an extra dollar not a penny right now the taxpayers don't want any more new taxes it snuffs
out anys out the school district it's hard or if um the county or the state or anybody else has a crisis and needs to raise taxes we will have eaten up some of that political Goodwill of the
taxpayers that's my point make a lot of assumptions one more thing I want to say on that is our our taxes go up the value of our homes should potentially go no no no the V if if the taxes go up based on an open
space tax the interest in coming to a community in which it has higher taxes versus could potentially go down but what I wanted to say there is I I know we said that the majority of the community could eat up the amount of money that you said
so I found our facilities Finance um debt calculation that we did um I think it was about two years ago not saying that the rates are the same now as they were then but we we were um estimating an additional
$792 60 on the average residential home based on the facilities M and and that's you know that's based to hit I think the majority that 636 of those dollars are are are supposed to hit the next two
years Nancy is that still accurate when you say that's an accurate assessment um I I I did not have not seen that document I'm not saying you're saying it's an increase that hasn't really hit us yet this would be on top of it there
is going to be increase due to Debt Service from the facility correct I mean I can I get that like if you're adding on top of it that be interested like one of the things I'd be interested in seeing is um we could forecast it my guess is roughly yeah
what what the 2026 June 2026 tax like yeah me because we can speculate but so the full amount the full amount the whole 792 has not hit yet so this would be so what have we what generally have they has the increas that's on the
average moment okay but like what are they what have they already paid of that like are they paying like five or 600 already so would really only be no they they haven't paid that de service not right now I mean I think that's an important
piece if we if we do end up going forward with the referendum then I think that's an important piece to let to educate to educate them but I don't know that that would be a reason to not give them the option if they're but I understand Josh's point that not everyone's going to get all that
information um but can I have a couple more things so more you said more government we wouldn't be able to spend on core issues I still don't see how that is the case because we still have our existing budget this would just give us more money to spend I don't see it
taking away from anything else so here's a question your point because I I'm thinking about it the same way you are if we were to ask taxpayers residents if they wanted to vote Yes on this tax with even with all the information
they may very well say yes if they realize that it potentially comes at the at the cost of other priorities I.E the schools would they think about it differently I think that that's the point we're trying to do to me yeah the two the facilities and the
store both of those correct me if I'm wrong Nancy both of those while we've been paying some Debt Service on the facilities for for years that well I know we have to remember we that we have Deb service that we're paying yes but
it's not on the cons it's not the Soft C not in the new new 2023 17 that's not any anything that is not permanently financed not part
ofice hey can can I can I can I just summarize and tell me just to educate tell me if this is wrong so we took out the bond ordinances required that just authorized us for those funds that authoriz check check then we go through
Mammoth County IIA I forgot what the IIA stands for thank you and that is all shortterm financing right right one year for one year right and we we use the short-term financing as a means method to figure out how much are we exactly going to spend when are we going to
spend it Etc once we I'm going to use the word convert might not be the right word but once we convert from short-term to long-term funding that's when then the taxpayer gets hit with the increased Debt Service the only piece that is hitting the TA the taxes right now is
the interest on the mon CIA loan we do have separate Debt Service that we've been paying since 2019 totally 2009 copy that want to discern between the existing Debt Service and The Debt Service that's going to happen from the
facilities project two separate things so some of that is facilities related but this is different this funding mechanism you're talking about so now that helped me catch up so so the things just to work clear and I think we all get it like facilities is
going to hit this schol referendum is going to hit and to me we'd want to know just we can make a contextualized decision or at least have continue to have the conversation with some more information this again goes to the timing question because I personally
like that we're talking about this I think that this is something we take our time with and talk to our community and you know I don't have a problem with open houses I know that they have you know modest yield it depends but there are so many other ways that we can be
talking to our community um there's this this may take some time to arrive at a decision but I would rather us take our time and arrive at consensus that's really well informed um and because it's not just a financial decision I agree we
cannot afford to take care of what we have right now with what we have we can't afford to keep taking care we there's a lot of things that have reached the level of um you know I call it it's almost like it needs an intervention a kind of expense that
exceeds average maintenance expenses um we have to get better at taking care of what we have annually you know year over year over year but s this could help us resolve that um but I do think we need to take our
time with it personally um I also would like to see how the master plan plays out and how that engages with the community and what we learn from it and where where the priorities you know how the government feels about those priorities and conversations as it comes up I think it's very they be very
helpful in informing this decision I want go in the record saying I do think this is a valuable tool I'm not ready to eliminate it and I think we should stay open to examining it agreed so I want to hit just a few other points too um for me I think there's a lot of data
that we need yeah and what's the process to prioritize open space what's the process to select where funds are used what's the current open space grants and are we exhausting every opportunity what are the lessons learned from other towns what the direct impact for the budget
going to be 154k does not solve this it alleviates it the degree of alleviation depends on a bunch of different factors and I don't want to speculate um and the most important thing to me is is who's going to lead the research of it right
like you look at all of the current like to to do the research on this to to reach out to 450 different towns not they reach out to everyone right but the point is is that there's a tremendous amount of research required to position us to make the best decision of what the next step is so that's just what I
wanted to uh end with well I don't want to speak for mcf but um that organization does have a lot of resources available for towns who have questions and are interested in exploring what the options are pitfalls
and um potential Benefits full disclosure it's an open space driven uh organization so they like to see municipalities adopt open space taxes but not if it isn't right for the municipality but I guess where I
was going is we don't have to be alone with the research 100% there's some resources out there and TR that's why I said The Innovation premium here is zero we're not the first town do they ever come speak to governing parties like is that an option I mean it would be nice to have someone come in and answer
questions yeah that's been my experience having worked with them for a long time or even go in and talk to like the environmental Commission I'd be interested in seeing and Nancy this is probably a question for you um how long do you need like what when would we might be able to see or get a
glimpse of a rough idea of what that tax bill might look like I'm not asking for anything precise just sort of a rough sense of what the average tax bill on the average homeowner would be like can say June 2026 maybe June
2027 is that doable I asked that I asked you you know what they well based on the rable base right I know there's flation that's fine okay 2026 valuation won't be available till early octob
actually probably December so even if we used the 2025 and you know added in what we know that that service is going to look like based on the referendums that have passed or the the school referendum and the facilities that service can we get at
least a sketch not asking for anything I can certainly try not something I'll have this week or well no no right mean I personally think this is an ongoing personally I know we haven't you know TR hold the counsel or anything I personally think this is an
ongoing conversation so those data points should be helpful yeah and then I wanted to um po again something the mayor talked about which is the Appropriations C can't just which really handcuffs um really all towns and
um I know the mayor has put a lot of effort into attempting to you know Advocate on behalf of Municipal municipalities who are struggling with this budget constraint so um you know while we're waiting for everything else
to play out looking at all this data I wonder what we could do to further convey to our elected officials um that the Appropriations Gap is has a real strangle hold on us just provide basic Services even I suppose the instruction is the
lobby are state senator and just just two things if you don't want me bring it up one uh C La Barber brought up a question about open space grants just to give you an idea the 2025 open space Grant from M the county came out they did double the amount this year years previous was
250,000 this year's application is a Max of 500,000 which obviously will be actively pursuing as a municipality um second thing too when you talk about Services um there was a recent email that went out in the municipal managers groups um there is proposed legislation however I have not
found the proposed bill online um that's actually looking to make it harder for municipalities to Outsource trash um so because they determined it's not a savings to Outsource trash um that's concerning and they're looking for polls of how many towns are looking to do that um where I find that
concerning is the fact that we're probably not going to see the exception that we were hoped that that maybe the legislation would push for towns to have an ad cap expense for um Outsourcing of trash if they don't see that as a favorable option for municipalities I don't see them ever bringing that exception back when you Outsource do you
mean like to roselli corre to a private contractor correct so towns the towns that currently have a trash have their own inhouse trash like we did at one point they're looking to Outsource it um there's proposed legislation to um to
discourage municipalities in doing that because they found it's not a save as municipalities so um which concerns me because you know again what we had hoped for an exception for cap for outsourcing trash um probably probably not going to see that and what is the
likelihood of the state eliminating the Appropriations cap is that something worth campaigning for you know it's mean obviously that that comes to State I mean we we had I know when I first got here there were there were a few meetings that the mayor
had with our legislators and I mean think you know anything again once you get rid of Appropriations caping the what the first thing that people think is you have increased spending and that's always an unpopular decision to begin with so I don't know that's certainly something that's way above me you know and I people certainly could Lobby their their legislators and see if
there's something that could be done but you know we can certainly put that on a future Workshop if we want to have a discussion and and take a position together in which we want to send send a letter or something like that that's something you guys want to do um as far
as this I just I I don't want to you know I know what my mind is on the direction it sounds like people have interest in the open space text but I also hear a lot of hesitance over the timing of it there would need to be more data uh driven so I would just maybe encourage some continued
conversation um you know with Nancy Gathering the data as far as the cost and stuff like that you know to me I personally would never move on just let you know on if it was a tie I would never I would never move on this until
at least um the facilities taxes had been passed and we knew exactly what that looked like if that gives you you any idea of a timeline in my head so that that's uh is that July 26 yeah around that time so around July of 26
would be my timeline to look at it again and eventally consider but to that point for no only if it was if it was a tie but then that would time sorry go ahead go ahead I was just gonna say like
but then you're this would hit till 2027 anyway so that would actually be the if we voted it in this year which we're saying we need more time what I was saying is I want to know in July of 2026 what the impact is from the facilities
on individual residents taxes and I also think by then we'll we'll have more clarity on the schools and where that ends up um listen I I again I started a long time ago the first thing I said here is I see the benefits but I really
do think that we're not recognizing if all those other taxes hit and we throw the open space tax on top of that it's a heavy burden for our residents to carry right now I'll just say I think we can get a a little bit of a snapshot prior to the actual tax bill so
I would propose that we use this time you know call it a year I don't really know but use this time to collect more information to do our due diligence to engage the public withs one and once or are attending meetings however I know my
methods but um and then if we want to formalize that at some point you know obviously it would have to come back here I have one question for Alison before i s you're going to move us on but um what is the player the county would need information from us just
gonna say when Michael speaking um you have to adopt a resolution saying we're looking to go forward and this is our public question that we want included on the ballot right no matter what year it is it's got to be by your last meeting
in July it depends on when the election Falls but it's for the November general election right and so you need it by July no later than August depending on when the election Falls
there's that's helpful for this year we wanted it to goell we'd have to be have this decision in July so we would have to keep this conversation kind of in every meeting that yeah I guess how I feel is that
there is support from different um committees and commissions who are at the Forefront of dealing with the Open Spaces and and our historic buildings and there is obviously some interesting keeping to learn I would just hate to stop the conversation here
when there is so much interest on that's not different agencies so that's well that's my question do we do we need to pass a motion say I mean I'm going to I'm going to explore all of your questions I'll work with Nancy do we need to motion that or is that something
I can do on my own no just do it on your own and then we'll workshop at the next meeting the mayor or whatever but how probably not at the March 10th meeting school but maybe go for anyway 24 but I just want to make sure that like do we have to make a
motion to make sure it gets on the agenda or that would be up to on the agenda we'll put it on the agenda I'll send you on my question yeah you know and then we talk me surve is one way to find out just the residents have
an appetite yeah I'm really reluctant to this this year there's going to be a lot of surveys I want to avoid survey fatigue I agree with you Betsy it would be a great way but I think when when the master plan work is undergoing the planner devising ways to gain uh solicit
input that question can be part of a larger yeah def question that have then it would have some context can I maybe maybe I am unclear from are there four people up here that are going to consider putting this up
for July of this year no I don't I don't know if it'll be that quick so so so we're not talking about this year so let's just get all the data we can and keep the conversation going that fair and and I'm grateful that we started talking about this so I appreciate our work
B thank you thank you for the presentation thank you uh Nance one question that came up was uh raising the Appropriations so I don't want you guys to be blindsided I'll put it in the the question just understanding if you did raise the Appropriations cap what happens and what
does that look like and whatnot okay one more the Appropriations cap if the Appropriations cap was increased what happens with Surplus what happens with spending yeah so I was asking him and I think that that would be helpful I know it's not that in addition to the work just being educated
I'll send you an email well don't we do that every every year with the never mind all right we're going to move along to public comment on agenda items only please observe a three minute time limit please stand identify Yourself by clearly stating your name and address
for the record uh Susan and then we'll go Ken right and then I think I saw Anna also Stephanie I'm sorry Vision hi Susan O'Brien 875 River Road um this is about the open space tax
which of course I'm in favor of because I I'm aware of all the problems that we have with lack of Maintenance throughout town so as a resident I say just scheduled the referendum and then make
your cases either for or against and let let us decide okay you Katie hi Katie Sora 126 Lexington um I was I came here to talk about something else but I was on the board of
ed um I've been through a referendum um vote and I just want to respectfully just caution what you said earlier mayor when we've been there well we have these meetings and no one comes why bother no I didn't say no one comes we had nice there a little bit of a it's it's it's
frustrating when you have all these great presentations and you don't get a lot of folks come out we face that on the board of at all the time and we challenged us to don't say don't get annoyed because not another not enough people came it was a challenge to us that we needed to do a better job on the
communication and whether it was postcards whether it was you know meet in the park we pushed pushed push push the high school also had a referendum their communication strategy was even better than ours I think but you all brought up a really good point it's hard
enough to get residents to understand the difference between Municipal tax and school tax that you you are not responsible for the what is it tax that you're what you discuss as a municipal budget that's like basic basic
tax education for the public this is even more important because you're right in the big pot of things people just know that there's a tax bill and you do need to educate whatever the best format is on the difference between this that I worned about tonight the um the
facilities tax and then the open space tax and the referendum on top of it so you brought up a good point that the public might get fatigued by all little taxes and then it hurts everybody they get mad they they don't now they're mad because of the tax here tax there but it's not an unsolvable problem there's
clever ways to communicate it a team approach like someone representing each of those taxes Sean mcneel facilities everybody sitting together and saying hey here we're all here here's the pie chart of the taxes that you think may come forward this is why it's important and to your point and then and then
throw it to the public for a vote so I just don't don't get discouraged just because a lot of people don't come we also were discouraged when we were on the local Board of Ed but we kept trying to find unique ways to educate we got people that were smarter than us to help us with how that communication is going
to work so that's all thank you thank you Stephie hi Stephanie Adams 230 oxer um I wanted to just I guess ask a question um we'll make a statement I
know that on our tax bill we there is a mammoth County open space tax already on our tax bill and we all pay it nobody seems to complain about it um when we're talking about three cents on you know $1,000 of assess value if
you're talking about a $2 million home you're talking about $60 in addition your your tax bill is probably already 20 to $25,000 so I personally don't see how
that is would be you know onerous I I understand the principle of it is not appealing that you are adding to this tax bill but I don't know that it would actually that it would be you know that you could consider it a a you know a
difficulty right for the taxpayer um because it's only $60 um 600 the first year the first year 60060 three cents per 100 talking any did you say three so the open space tax I
believe she the open space tax open space tax three cents per thousand of value so we follow that formula oh got it it would be $60 for an additional per yes yeah my other issue is just with the
the title and I I think maybe that's where Brian was going calling it an open space tax does sort of give the you know the the illusion that we're using this to purchase more open space I know when I first started looking into it that was the first thing that came to my mind and
I think now everybody agrees that we really were maxed out and there's nowhere else to buy so and I don't know if the residents would also struggle with that and I'm not advocating to change the name but in some of the research that I did um I was talking to
Carolyn about this was you know there are different ways to address this whether and one of the one of the counties that I looked at it was a a a natural resource protection charge which is not a good name but is there
another because essentially what we're looking for is a pool of money to address our maintenance needs we're not looking to acquire more open space I'm not going to go on about why it's important why so many residents move here for our Open Spaces right it keeps
our children healthier and happier you know we all understand the importance of it but we do need money to maintain it so is there another way to frame it so that it's clear that this money is not to acquire more open space this money is going to be used to maintain what we
have um and and and I would disagree with you Tracy on commercial property because if you then if you go back to this um Quality protection quality control on your natural resources and
you think about it some counties think about it in terms of well who uses our natural resources right who uses our air water land and so people that are using these natural resources you know we're going to tax them for the use of those natural resources and our commercial
properties I would argue right use they some of them do pollute the air some of them do increase our storm water some of them don't maintain their property you know with better storm water infrastructure so I would argue to include them just because they are using
our natural resources so I think that they should also you know contribute to that tax so um I think that was it yes thank you thank you Stephanie um the the only part of that I I'd like to respond to is um the part where you say you know
a lot of the residents are paying 20 to $25,000 and not owner I disagree with that because I've been up here now for three years I don't understand your point but I've been up here for three years different projects so it's only a$1 63 a month it's only
$10 a month and all of these add up and it's on top of sales taxes that you know every day Americans are paying at the grocery store um it's on top of their income tax uh that gets taken out of their paycheck it's on top of truthfully
I think our already and I represent the municipal government that's taxing the residents I think the taxes that we're taxing our residents are owner already so anything on top of that I I think does qualify um as being unnecessary if
we can prevent it from the de um as a body uh it's not it's not the uh uses that we're trying to protect from we agree with everyone out there that we we want more money to protect what we have
in the future 100% we I want to make that very clear there's not a single person up here that doesn't want the resources to protect what we already have help maintain them our natural areas we all agree on that I I think I
think just from a financial standpoint um I just want to verify that that's where I'm coming from that I do think it's onerous to continue to tax our residents um above where they're already at because I think that number is onerous in itself so and I
fully agree with you but but for as long as you know different um you know different governing bodies have been talking about this for some time and so it's it's you know and and looking at you know when
some of these uh municipalities actually instituted they open like we're going back to like the late 80s you know the early 90s like it's not like this is just happening it's been happening for some time so it's again it's not necessarily attractive and it's and you
know and I'm not trying to be flippant that it's not onerous but you know I'm just doing the math um you know it it's the problem is not fixing itself and so to the extent and again we could call it something else other than open space tax so that there's no confusion as to where
the money is going you know maybe that's a direction too and and thank you I I appreciated your presentation um it was really thoughtful um so yeah my I I understand what you're saying but at the same time and and and part of what enables me to have the position I have
quite truthfully it's a huge compliment to a lot of the people I see out there is that you've created some magic with very limited resources so you know the things that you've done to these natural areas without the resources that I'm sure that you would you would want is
something that you should you should all be very proud of and and I know that I'm very thankful for and I'm I'm sure I could speak on behalf of the entire community and say the same thing so can other though thank you for all of that but they are using resources they're just using their own resources they're
paying their own money they're using their own physical bodies and so it's not not coming at an expense it's more than $60 I know it's more than $60 for these people it's thousands and thousands of dollars thousands of hours that they've spent so yes we're thankful
to them much in the same way that the baseball Community Raks the fields and you know and but they do get more money we do have money in the gyms I mop the floors when I come in to make sure they don't stick for the you know the entire Community is raising up
and I I wanted to complement that yes Kell um Kelly again got a 223 third gr um just a little cat though I do Char pay for my B kids that play baseball go fun right but my other question is do
you you know how much of Fair Haven is actually open SP I'm going to ask question yeah do how much isn't it like 20% 100 acres if you look at the ER and then you add the 79 Acres that we just
acquired at 21 and you kind of guesstimate the pocket Parks it's you know close to 89 Acres but 15% of Fair Haven which is 1.5 square miles is classified as open space if you have not
read the Fair Haven ER which the environmental commission has worked diligently doing I do recommend that everybody looks at this resource it is phenomenal it has been currently been updated with all our open space Maps photos everything you want to know about what constitutes open space as we see
here um in our town um most towns do have in part of their master plan and open space plan as well and that could be generated by the burrow Council or commission to determine what the priorities are people residents weigh in on that too so I know that was a
question that came up what prioritize it but I I I do understand and believe me we are working on this school too I we're asking people for money it is a tiresome job it is really hard and much harder than I ever could imagine so I
get that this is a difficult subject but I challenge you to think that if we were to collect an open space tax or some type of measurement like this would that not be saving our in the long run because it so much more efficient to maintain our properties than it is to
fix the problem once it's happened and I am also volunteering my own time on the mcarter pond committee trying to figure out how to fix this problem with no money and it's it's to the point where like why am I wasting my time we have no
money to do this so a fund some sort of allocated funds for problems like this could help so we maintain it so we don't have this big problem at the end that just seems unattainable so that on ongoing it might save the burrow in the
long run Bicentennial Hall is a great example had we had money for Bicentennial Hall a long time ago we probably wouldn't be spending all the money we're spending now now granted we got some grants for it but still I mean it's the same with your house right and your own property maintenance yes but it's ongoing you have to do it in order
to have the bur Hall roof gaping in or leaking constantly needs to be updated and so I wonder if this will actually be more efficient and beneficial in the long run that's a great question and actually can I just go back to something you said how it's like poor planning and
why the roots still leaking I don't disagree I think we could be running things better but that's also on us and I don't think that that's contingent this open space tax would do anything about that like I think we need to do that better 100% but I don't see that as a downside to like actually getting more
money to pay for things but I understand what you're saying Mr Olson oh sorry oh got a question say I have a column in my one here oh sorry Mark olon 220 Cambridge Avenue I hate to disagree with my
Minnesota brother my Minnesota olon brother but bring it up couple of points number one if Middletown started at 1% then they voted to raise it their taxes weren't
raised they said we want to pay more to consider the other one is that we keep talking about taxes no one wants to pay more taxes but what do we get for our taxes so I don't know that your number is Right Tracy if it's 87 I thought it was closer to 100 it is it's
over 100 189 we're in the Natural Area we're we're at 40 plus the baseball field we're at 77 Plus so if we go 100 100 acres 100 in the m i look at the ER in there's other ways to because
Andrew what would you would you buy an acre in Fair Haven for 500,000 bucks would anybody in buy an acre for $500 where is the acre located the bird sanctuary we have like six acres there we could probably sell that for at least 500,000 that's 3
million right so if we have 100 acres at 500,000 50 million we have $50 million value of open space how much should we spend in maintaining the open space 1% is 500,000 a
year a half a percent does anybody in this town pay a half a percent to maintain their house we all pay more than that you have to maintain the property so we have a gap so I mean I
think Nancy did a great job I think Council cotch did a great job driving this whole thing I think we should just keep talking about it but we we have a gap between this property that we need to maintain and where are we going to get the money the last thing is when you
put money into some of this open this property that property increases in value yeah right has Third Street Trail increased in value does that help the
rable we have to increase the value of this property or we can go like Newark and just let Newark just let the property just who gives a crap we're not going to inv property I like the face go ahead first of all Mark Olson's
tremendous I want to bring that up U and and thank you for everything you do for the community as well um the two things I do want to bring up though is when you did come to us for the Third Street Trail yeah you said I need no resources I need nothing I'm doing everything on my own doing it again in a couple weeks
we're doing it but then to use that as an argument of why we need more money that kind of defeats the purpose of why the project started in the first place because as the facts change as you learn Josh you have to adjust and you get into the Third Street Trail and you realize there's big trees that are compromised
we just lost a beautiful tree came across the Third Street Trail why did that tree come down find covered in English V Ivy that we couldn't get to so we have to we can stay and just say that we'll never ever invest in the property is that what you're that's not that's not what I'm
saying but to to use as an argument to um that you did a pro you did a project that you said would not need any burrow resources now you're using that as the way to try and sell an additional tax on all residents I think if we went back to
the moment where you initially sold us on the project if we knew that was the conclusion at that time me meanwhile the Project's unbelievable it really is well we could have stop but the the other point from what you said that I I just want to make out
is that you made it sound as if we're not spending any money on maintaining the burrow I didn't in well in your situation you said would you just pay 1% to maintain that piece of profit of course you would I think we are paying 1% to maintain our property you're
saying you want to spend another per on top of that we are spending a lot of money to maintain Fair ha now I understand you think there's a gap I'm not disputing that yeah because I think I share your opinion that there's a gap but I just want to make very very clear
that there's a lot of resources put into maintaining what we have now I think we both agreed is just not enough yeah but I'll just press back on you and that I don't know if we should say a lot maybe we could quantify position Chris brought that up who's going to pay for the level where you lived it was that the question yeah the question was
for the the resources that'd be nice if we tracked all the resources and see if those where those resources get spent on the naturally on thir Street jail on the first Sanctuary wherever um that's a really valuable I would like to say also that
um the Third Street Trail is an example of um you know we just want to isolate that one geographical area it's an area that received zero investment of any from the government for years over years over years and it was the residents who said
enough we can't we you know they bootstrapped themselves organized themselves and changed it they used their own resources human Financial neighor water
Juds and the mayor's contrib everyone contributed so I'm not this is not meant to exclude anyone I think it took the whole Community but it's a really good example of we can continue
to do that and still need funds and resources to maintain properties in Fair Haven it those two things don't exist in you know they're they can coexist we can commit as a community to volunteer and
commit as a community Through government to fund the maintenance of our open space one does not cancel out the other um I just wanted to yeah and you're your my final point that I want to make is like we're talking about the tax we haven't determined what the cost
is yeah we don't so why are we talking about a tax without even assessing like you went to Bonnie and I and asked us what the number is and N you look at Bonnie but the number isn't a very big number for just the Third Street Trail just the Third Street Trail oh but we're
had 26 different if you if you ask Carolyn about the biggest piece of property in Fair Haven the 44 Acres that is the Natural Area I'm not going to look at Carol the number is not that big and we should know what ring and we had talked to Teresa KAS and said you don't
have to go half you can go a quarter you can get the number down you know you can do a tenth of a penny what right can't you cut this number down into a a slice that you don't have to go to a penny or half a penny go very small and learn
from the experience it's going to take years um and go from it and then um the last one is I didn't get a vote on 21 Fair hidden Road I didn't get a vote on DPW
facilities or the police I I didn't get one blanken vote and my taxes went up when the bond lady was in here two years ago and she whoever she was from Jersey City and she said oh yeah on average is going to be 550 some $550 for each
resident and now our mayor says the number is really like 772 I didn't get one flipping vote on that this one let the residents vote that's not you putting a tax on Jos you
can walk walk free you you had nothing to do with it just put it out and let the residents determine their fate because there are residents in this town that want to spend that money they want spending that money don't deny them the
opportunity to spend their money to improve the land for Fair Haven today tomorrow 50 10050 years from now let them do that well I just thank you I I appreciate your
comments my only rebuttal is the $500 or $700 would have been 16 or8 $100 if if the people the people on the Das did not do did not do what they did I understand point I didn't get to vote I I understand your point you you voted
for the people on the dasas though you did right and on this one I would like to make this vote for the resident I understand that and I hear that you appreciate that right I appreciate your sentiment that you want to get the residents to vote for that I
personally disagree I don't think that 51% of the population should burden 49% of the population with additional tax but I understand fortunately I don't have to worry about you I'm just trying to get the four on either side I understand that understand know I got a
couple in my pocket I'm tooing I just question mark so the the um the penny came in at whatever 150 Grand right Penny was 27 all right what's the half penny just pick an orbitor
number half penny 132 Grand 137 so mark my question to you is just for a record half penny was 13760 Penny was 275 fre 21 go to a quarter penny so you can only go to a half so let's say they you know half all
that 136 if the burrow had 136,000 that it could commit every year are you for the open space back yeah so so I would like it ring fence well hang on T for time out so irrespective of how much money we put in the budget towards it you're still worth
the open space tax to add more right because what I want to what I want to discern here is I want to discern whether we're get we're we're for it you heard everybody is for it right so your your approach right um was hey start small get the process iron out the Kings
right yeah great half penny could go a quarter Penny them to be honest sure right but half penny 136 so if the burrow committed right to $136,000 and didn't have an open space tax and was able to start small and start figuring out how to do a quote unquote better job and write that's subjective if we're
doing a good job or not yeah um do you still vote for the open space tax yeah but I but I just want to change your language a little bit it's not the burrow it's the residence in world that's the big distinction that I'm frustrated with here you guys aren't making a decision it's the resident yeah
so where is the limit is is there a limit I I know you probably can't answer that question now but you know theoretically where is the limit what if the B come up with $500,000 would you still want the open space tax where's the B going come up with $500,000 well that's just hypothetically where is it
is it the dollar amount you're after or is it the tax that you want the dollar okay so to his point if we can come up with a dollar amount then would you would you not want the open space tax yes I would not want the makes that if you can come up with a dollar mon but
you'd have to keep coming up with that every year that's a burden on you guys and we haven't come up with a historic come but I Mark real quick I super appreciate that right because right there to me is beautiful right it's like hey oh tax just for tax I don't want to
do no but the point is is that we are all in violent agreement that there needs to be a mechanism in place to solve the Gap that exists the question is what is that mechanism right so thank you for being honest and I and finally finally what you have in this town that you don't have you have in very few
other towns no you have volunteers reduce your costs so low but don't burn your volunteers out great volunteers we can get more just get a little bit of money can I just say something to what you said you said that you don't think
that 51% of the population should burden the other 49% but it's everyone's legal right to vote so if they want to not be burdened by a decision they can then vote so I don't think that's a fair way to say put forth anything like you're burdening the 49% that's the minimum
vote too yeah so they look you're take you're taking 51% and if you're in that Minority you have no opportunity to you have the opportunity to vote that's your they voted they voted for us to make the decisions that's that's we
represent our keeping okay think we're seeing this I I guess I would my rebuttal to you why don't we just have a vote for every single decision we have up here well what's the purpose of us making decisions up here if we can just crowdsource every decision we make why why are we even
making a decision tonight on love where you live day in the April 27th request when we can go to the entire community and ask them whether we should have love where you live day in mcarter park well one is a tax the others are not yeah we have limits on our taxing Authority as
it should be MH that's an incredibly important power that's been granted to this body this councel and we cannot abuse it the open space tax is a referendum for a good reason in principle it's the People's Choice so if I've heard anything tonight
it's that Fair Haven at least the people in this room are interested in having the right to vote Yes on an open space house should we put it and in the meantime we'll do some homework and I'd like to continue the discuss can I we
also put do we also put a referendum up in the same election on whether to put turf fields at the community center and tax a residence for them no why not because that's not because that's
not what you're looking for oh it's it's it's expensive it's an additional tax for res should we put it why don't we let the resident we're talking about maintenance on what we have let's let the res can we go back to Christ I just want one last point just
bring this home for me anyway um hopefully everybody else we can move on but I just want to be clear we're all interested in continuing the conversation I think it's Our obligation as governing body members to do to make a big decision like this when we have more information rather than less that's
all I think we all agree okay so then we don't have all that information so I think we move on and we continue the conversation right nobody's saying I don't think let's shut the door on this idea all Alison is there anyone else uh I just wanted to say that I thought the we should have the tax
because it's very important I've seen a lot of places around the town that have legitimate safety issues because of not enough funding like uh from the 21 uh fa Haven Road there's no nothing
stopping people from just entering the property and people have and that H that it's probably just not safe inside of that house and people have entered the house there and uh for like there's been the trails inside of fair
of Natural Area they're like all bumpy and not bikable at all anymore and Mard Pond is also an issue and when you see like going I've seen deer carcasses just sitting in the middle of a fa Haven
Natural Area it's a lot of it's a lot of land you got to deal with and you're probably not going to be able to deal with all of it but at least something needs to have some funding great thank you may
um yes there is no Brian 875 River Road so let's not call it an open space tax since that seems to convey the wrong message let's call it something like a Parks tax and people will understand
better so write that down honnie 11 B um I am in favor of supporting our Open Spaces I think one of our biggest problems everywhere is maintenance um and we need to take that a little more seriously and I I just
attended a shade tree a sure shade tree meeting down in m one and the mayor came to the meeting it was a bunch of shade Tre Commissioners and and uh he came just to answer questions um before the council meeting and I asked him if he
had an open space PS and he said yes we do we had we got it back in 2004 we just buy a big piece of property to preserve it we just finished paying that off um and now we're work on some other um projects in town and we said I said who
is on this committee that decides how you use this money and he said oh we have representatives from all different commit commissions committees um people in Town um there's a council representative there's I mean so it would be like a marter pond person a sure you know a natural area you know it
would be all the open space you know residents that are involved in these that would decide how this money would be used and I I just think I I mean as Mark said you could start small I mean the reason all these towns keep increasing it because they're
realizing how effective it is I think I don't think this is a forced thing that's automatically no they're up I think it is the residents who keep saying yes this is working we're preserving open in space we're maintaining things um and you know if nothing else we're realizing with all
this Development coming in New Jersey that it really is important to keep our open space is beautiful um for mental health or or every other kind of heal so I just I would love to see it comes to Residents and I do think it is your job
to provide um all the facts all the different taxes and make sure that the uh the residents are educated so that they can make good decisions um that they won't regret because they said oh I didn't know um but I I do think
that the residents want to see this and I think it is up to them really and and I I would I would the only thing I counter with you is I would if it were ever to be on the ballot I would definitely push for it to be on the same year as a presidential ballot Just because that's when you get the most
people out to make a decision like that personally that's my point okay um I just have one other question totally unrelated um but the proclamation for the 25 year celebration was on the agenda which I was very excited because
I thought we should start planning for this it's it's not on the agenda so this isn't a comment for public I think it do good just stick around we have one hand up from iPhone can iPhone please stay your name and address the
record hey good evening it's Wilson Rodriguez at 18 Island Street regarding the DPW I don't know if this is the appropriate moment or uh later on what what is it regarding what about the DPW though just uh some few shout outs and
then maybe just uh acknowledging some it that we'd like to continue the open engagement that would be for good of the got it stay online put you know we'll uh we'll be back hopefully not too
long all right thank you all right uh that's it Alison moving along approval of minutes February 12 2025 regular meeting do I have a motion to approve motion second Alison M please have a roll call yes
oh she stepped out yes affirmative yes okay thank you we're moving along to new business anyone have any old business moving on to new business
consent agenda resolutions 2025 76 through 2025 d89 does anyone want to comment on anything or mayor can I just give some background on 2025 79 I had a couple residents reach out and I just want to
set the record straight um so this is the award contract for improvements to Maple Avenue right this was the offsite improvements um I'm going a couple points um our original cost estimate for this was 250 if the governing body
recalls we added this as an alternate with The DPW bid that came back at 457,000 we ultimately re rejected it due to the price um our director of engineering Rich put it back out um and the refi plan brought it in at
197,000 so 21% under the r under the cost estimate 57% under alternate a from a sidewalk perspective the sidewalks are continuation of The Pedestrian improvements within the neighborhood allowing linkage between third and Hendrickson uh sidewalks were already installed on third including the corner
lot on Maple sidebox and Hendrickson and a few properties on Maple already uh full alignment with the ATP um there's been questions on the pre-existing front yard setback um all work is within the barrels Right Way pre-existing front yard setbacks will be minimally effective since much of the
work area is non-compliant asphalt that was added in in certain areas uh new curb driveway sidewalk top soil and sod there will be a decrease in impervious um we want to make sure that this is not confused with the Landscaping plan on
Maple Avenue right two different things so as part of the DPW project a cohesive Landscaping plan was addressed so that's Maple Avenue Allen Street 3r street as a governing body recalls um there were an unforeseen circumstances where many
trees have what's called Gerling Mark correct me if I'm wrong um but basically it it strangles the tree and it's not healthy for the tree long story short new plan was created we're waiting for the general contractor to come back with what the potential change order is based on the updated plan once that's done
we'll be in a better position to uh address that so just want to take a quick moment moment mayor the other thing too um actually I'll come back when Wilson responds and bring that up later so to sermon between offsite Maple Avenue improvements and the Maple Avenue
Landscaping specific to the DPW the Maple Avenue project again Rich put it back out to bid after we collectively made the decision to do so based on the price and the price came in 20 1% under the original cost estimate 57% under
what it came in as alternate a under the DPW it's helpful J thank you yeah anyone want to separate anything from the consent agenda anyone I have a motion to approve motion second Alison may I please have a roll call
yes yes yes Yesa affirmative yes uh thank you uh Department reports uh 2023 year end is that right zoning board annual
report January 2025 tax collector Municipal Court Police Department you guys are good voting all at once on no just a quick plug mayor the the zoning board annual report is a bear to do um so I don't know who on the zoning board did it but Kudos and great I can address
that um Frank Forte and and Company awesome yeah and um I was the Lea on that year I know you're um Brian doing it this year they um the report is worth a little bit more in depth review this
year they aggregated some year year I think that in fact that's going we're going to get more of that but um it's worth taking a minute especially because it's addressing the things that may ultimately come before this body for modification right obviously we have
residents for the zoning board for recurring conditions that are not necessarily should maybe meet the threshold of a zoning board application there might be tweaks in the land use law that could be considered by this body not that I know of anybody any
coming right now but if the land use committee takes that up way here what they just say I attended that meeting when they did the presentation it was at the amount of time they put into it presentation AB excellent so thank you the effort I'll make a motion to approve
with a thank you both the zba report and the Jenner 2025 you oh sorry a motion question sure so um we didn't follow the right it seemed like there was an actionable item though that they were making a recommendation is that
something we need to talk about talking what was it it was having the group um no yeah it was um all we're voting on though is to accept the report there was a list of actions so I'm just wondering that that could be a separate
discussion but right now we're just voting to accept the report and because fall within this body's jurisdiction so does anyone have a motion with a thank you perhaps motion with a huge thank you double thank you double oh I also wanted to thank Chief
because we asked for some specific tracking item need police report so thank you uh kind of interesting everyone agree on this motion with a huge double a second hug double and I said greatness tonight are you all agreement on the
motion good to the burrow good to the burrow the in person first yes hello Wilson hold on we're not we're not there yet Wilson we'll come back to
you B 115 bat Road um as I said the proclamation saying that we were going to celebrate our 2503 birthday next summer was on the agenda and then it came off and I'm just I was really looking forward to it having lived
through the last one 50 years ago um and uh you know it's a big deal um I remember all trades in town and um just events surrounding it I mean mom art town spr the center mom County all the
battles and everything so anyway I'm just hoping that we are going to celebrate it we anticipate full support of what of of the 250th celebration we the resolution on a future um meeting
agenda a meeting maybe in the future sure if not now I know that Long Branch yes did what what did it's the resolution so they've asked all the different municipalities to sign a resolution saying we're in support and we're going to be part of the 250th um
anniversary so I don't know the numbers many U municipalities are doing it and it's just saying we're committed to it we're committed to celebrating it and it's not asking us for any money um but what a lot of towns are doing and what we are
doing in Long Branch is there's a van that goes around that has all like the history of the Revolutionary War and mmth County's history so the van will go to different places so there's thoughts of maybe having the van at Fair Haven day I know there was like some talk about doing a bike parade I mean there's
a lot of things that we can do but the I know that was I love the idea of a bike so um they are asking for a resolution um I support putting it on the the I don't know I I support doing the resolution to answer your question the
resolution is a lot of fluff um there's only one part of it that I think would be advantageous for us to actually passes a resolution I think it's number two which establishes a committee basically to work on the 250
celebration and I think my um my policy has been pretty clear for the last three years how I feel about proclamations that aren't specifically fairen Centric that's all it's about there's nothing in that resolution that I disagree with I think that um it's just about being
consistent now in the past and in the future so full support for everything regarding 250 cele we're going to have well I think we should vote on it yes I think the council should have a right to vote on it I don't see why not I mean
but isn't the process worksh and why would like to make a resolution or what have to do we could Workshop it so how do I I don't know the official way but I'd like to have a resolution to to get it as a workshop on the agenda you can vote on it right now if you really want to you can make a motion
to vote on the resolution you guys all had it in your package you you took it off so they don't have the information to understand as dep about what it is it was in all your packets the resolution I have it you've had it since Thursday I haven't so if you want to if you want to vote on the resolution just make a
motion I just as mayor consist you've made it very clear that you don't agree with it because you don't think it's fair Haven focused I've made it too clear to you we've had an open conversation that I don't think fluffy resolutions they don't the whole the whole Mammoth county
is basically all supporting it this is an initiative by our Mammoth County Commissioners who are very supportive of our town they've supp supportive of them and if they're asking us to to do this and you may think it's fluff but we do a lot of fluffy things
here why why wouldn't we just support this there's no downside to it I don't know what we're if you if you'd like to make a motion pass the resolution just make the motion Grand standing just make the motion fine I I have no objection to the
content because I don't think anyone else does we're wasting time and that's what I don't want to do that's why I don't want to put these on here but you just kept it motion sure I'll make a motion I would like to make a motion to um pass the resolution for the 250th
anniversary this is like RSVP to the party yeah is there a second yeah I'll second it Al please have a roll call Mar Cole yes yes oh no h
yes so I want to preface my vote that I am in full support of the 250 but I am against that we are not following the process of workshopping and then resolution and I don't dig it I'm just but he's made it so we can't do it he's made it so we can't have that
process have to Workshop you're forcing me to do it because you won't let us Workshop it you won't let me get it on the agenda to Workshop it thanks abstain by counil and then counil Al no so you we can achieve the Same by not
having a resolution and being consistent in our thought process around resolutions consistent in Josh's thought process no I mean let's go back to all the other resolutions that we talked about that could have opened up the door who's to say that this whole thing could
open up a can of worms point being if we can achieve the same thing resolution or not resolution by supporting our country let's do it we're not supporting our commissioners and just to like I would like to put this out there I'm the only sitting Democrat on this Council and the
Commissioners are all Republicans they're asking us to do it and I want to support them because I think it's important political decision Micha but I'm just saying that's why it's so ridiculous if if anything that supports the not being political and politically driven because because they're the same
party as ours which is not what we do here we're doing what's best for the burough of faan we're sitting here having an argument about a resolution that I'm trying to find here that that states like that but why why are we just doing things there's a purpose here we're
trying to be efficient for our taxpayers for our residents why we just do things just because they do them in Long R just because the county so anytime the state tells us to do something we're just going to do it because they asked us to do it no this is all right so then what
are we talking about here okay I think that for the residents we won't have this conversation but this is whereas New Jersey played a significant role during the American Revolution when it saw more battles and skirmishes we're supporting we're still
supporting the 250th celebration in full it was the first thing I said so you monetarily spend residents money when we can at a minimum do this we could have just literally had it on here voted for it Council authorizes the appointment of
a committee to develop to to develop a plan for this commemoration that will coordinate with the federal state and County celebration committees and will promote the maximum involvement of our residents neighborhoods businesses schools historical and Civics organizations and in institution commemorations that's the only thing on
here that we need to pass that's did to get it going we don't need any of the rest of this fluff at all whereas Governor Phil Murphy and the New Jersey state legislator in 2018 author hold on one second hold on one
second V in favor two no an abens it passes okay all right next up um got more hands there yes Susan then cave okay I have a couple of questions
oh this is an O'Brien 875 River Road um was the bulk head at the end of range ever replaced not yet not yet just to give you a little context on that we had to we had to work with an Ean with one
of the the homeowners there um that was on Kel ago was that that that was a hold up we've already again we've already spoken with the contractor the contractors at another site as soon as they're done they'll be over there with the materials
have delivered and we're beginning and secondly did we get the grant money for the community center the actual check we have not received that yet cash is not in the account we
so so we we we still we still anticipate receiving it but your breath I won't say that but we understand why you're asking the question and we're keeping our ey on and Susan just just for context I have followed up with um the congressman office several times over and uh and
they are prepared if for some reason those funds were to be impounded they are prepared to make sure that um that they are released yeah how are they're going to do that it's Congressional money and that and
that was yeah that doesn't seem to matter um I'm here wearing a couple hats and on the oh I'm sorry I wear hat p for Sora 126 Lexington um the hats I'm wearing are I'm on the historic preservation Commission of course and I'm on the
hisor association um and I also had the um of spending the day with um Folks at F Chapel yesterday um and were asking me about the police
station and when they asked me about the police station there was tremendous fear if I can not exaggerate that there's no plan for what's going to be done to um
celebrate the history and and I know we've talked about it here the word demolition is showing up on Facebook now and because oh the other hat I wear is I had Minister the Fair Haven page and I'm getting comments privately and some publicly where the you're behind the
eightball on the on the dialogue that's out there they're demolishing it what's the plan for the education I went to my phone and I realized it was July 24th 23 a year and a half ago when Daryl breing Ridge came up and I I don't use this
word with him lightly plaintively yeah he doesn't get emotional out you know darl you know your dad um and he said please have a plan and we're now in 2025 and what I don't want to happen is oh the demolition is happening next month
what's our plan we'll have and I know you were great we answer the questions and the three areas that I'm looking for are and at the HPC tomorrow night we'll talk about this as well are a before taken down some sort of thing that
happens outside in the safe area I'm going to volunteer Steve pill's front yard some sort of event where folks can look at the building before it goes down can say some things about it simple something I don't know what that is the actual plaque and all that which you
have talked about um that goes up there then was just an email between I know and I know and I know you're having emails I know there discussions but I think there just needs to be even if it's I'm not going to say five bullet points even if there are a few bullet points to the public saying
it's coming down this year we're going to have a three-pronged approach to celebrating the history something before it goes down something physical ongoing education boom done something that educates folks to know there's a plan because we know there's a lot of great conversations going on including myself
and other people and I feel like the conversations are just conversations it's not an actual plan yet so so I'm going to hand this to Drew and SEC the the piece that I'm going to touch on is the demolition when we originally had the discussion like as far as letting the community know that that part is
happening we're going to be over communicative because we're worried about the dust and all the stuff going in the air let everyone know the date it's happening steer clear of the area as far as the historical sorry you misunderstood I know you're going to communicate about that I'm talking about the historical side who's that yes and
you're just you're I'm just caught a little off guard cuz I texting with the Reverend right Smith over the weekend and whatnot so I'm just C off a little guard but so we um the plan for let's start with fist Chapel right the parking
lot right because we have the long-term agreement with fish chapel and we have an easeman right and we've been communicating both with the board of fish Chapel who then communicate up to the trustees Who oversee fish chapel and Company right and so we have the plan
that was briefed here it was briefed with the Reverend with what's going to happen with the parking lot and all of that and all the trustees and that's plan is set in motion you know that okay great then when we get to the historic aspects of it right we've been in touch
with the HPC on saving the window I know that okay and the lights then the lights right so so you know this right so obviously okay then we get to commemorating what the site is and the just passed over the photographs and the
content for the memorial that's going to be erected outside of the uh new PD location and then the Reverend is also going to be participating in the efforts when everything's opened up at the site correct so so when so are we talking
2025 and by Q2 this is done Q2 end of June okay what I'm asking is be and this I think you're on the right path I think in addition to all those things that we've mentioned before it's taken down before it's physically before the
wrecking ball hits it and I can talk to the HBC can even talk about how to talk to re about that some sort of thing discussion gathering for the site or for the building at the site okay because the building burned down in 26 right and then was rebuilt correct okay so you're
talking about a site commemoration I mean if the governing body's on board with it some sort of thing to proba work with the Reverend don't I caning people have accepted that it's coming down check check they' accepted
can I just work with you on it yeah send me an email and we'll get it set up I can't overate the risal reaction folks will have when it comes down totally get it there's some there's some an check check so let's work together EAS it 100% send me an email let's work together we'll figure out a plan we're meeting
tomorrow fantastic love it oh that's right who thank you are you oh no that's really good like ground truth right especially Maring letterers Marson 220 Cambridge Avenue we're doing this volunteer Day on Sunday
on thir Street sh for three hours and I just want Sunday this coming Sunday and I don't have a lot of experience dealing with burough administrators however the current burrow administrator is so good at customer
service as a volunteer it is a breath of fresh air so whoever if you were involved with that Josh thank you very much Chris York Aces over Kings thank you very can we get out um get out and and
nixel something out would that be helpful yeah we're also GNA send something out we didn't do a nixel though did we no yeah we're also we're gonna send something out Friday and we also send something out the
morning try Niel anyone else BET's got something um the uh Fair Haven Garden Club had a speaker last month and I don't know if you were at the meeting or not Tracy uh
but he was there to talk about birding and at the end of the meeting he went over to the Harding bird sanctuary with members of The Garden Club prior to that everyone thought there were no birds there nobody that it was just void of birds partly due to the fact that the
deer beaten the entire under story however when he went over there he actually identified 20 different species of birds which is pretty cool uh birds that we didn't even know existed there and he also suggested an app called
Merlin Bird ID which is run by Cornell where you can take your phone into anywhere into the woods and identify different birds can you spell it m l i n that isation switch a
rude that's a totally different story I know but I think it's use open space money to buy Birds to populate the Hardy bird Central sure we need to plant grasses for food for the birds were there any like new
species or were they all known species trying he identified 20 known you can check the for a list may we can promote some of that information so let's stop some bird watching today yeah anyone else would they go to the
borrow just want to call out he's put a Blazer on and it's no longer this is iPhone is he also still dropped iPhone has dropped off Wilson Rodriguez Allen Street thank you I just want to start off with you
know thank you to the council particularly Drew um the bur administrator ppw uh for engaging the neighborhood surrounding ppw um we look forward to continue working with you I know recently Drew hosted a meeting with the community I wasn't there thank you
for picking a day that I couldn't make it s but uh no thank you look we we are optimistic we keep working with each other uh and to provide you feedback particularly with like the Landscaping uh proposals and improvements to the
recycling area we appreciate the changes already implemented uh particularly those with like the PD uh locking and unlocking the the door Etc and also updates to the uh the weekly Pearl Buzz um I know there's
a lot of updates on there I think a lot of people don't read that unfortunately but it's a good start like I mentioned we like to keep the the engagement active because the reality is the cardboard volume will only increase and it's only going to get worse um it's going to definitely
compound over time and unfortunately eliminating The Bu weekly recycling pickup is probably contributing to this we're all aware of it it's a move point at at this point but um you know we we're just optimistic that our feedback will be considered such as some ideas that Drew and I have been discussing and
the folks surrounding the community there uh Our intention is not to spend additional money I know that's a a touching point with the budget Etc our goal is to optimize the flow of the area and um and particularly the functionality
because right now when the recycling area reaches the peak the cardboard area F right into the sidewalk right on the street you have vehicles uh driving recklessly down the street doing crazy K Andor you insurance and even worse
playing a game of chicken driving against each other just to drop off a small Amazon Parts uh just to put in perspective and so if we can just come up with a way to maybe improve that safety factor that functionality that would be awesome so
thank you sure abely so so real quick Wilson right so and um so everybody's on the same page with the recycling center specific to that we expanded the area right so as the DPW site work concludes right we
added that 40 foot slab another key thing that we're making a change right based on all the the resident engagement is is the hours of the DPW are going to be updated to when it's man so Monday through Friday 7:30 to 3 excuse me 7 to
3:30 and then Saturday resolution 2025 d81 here is that there's an actual part-time DPW worker there on Saturdays part of the at the recycling center at the recycling center and inclusive of driving on site on Saturdays and working with OEM and all that so all of that
operational management is forthcoming we're kind of revealing it maybe a little bit too ahead of time but since you raised it and you guys showed up especially after being home um so that's Saturday Sunday it's closed the gate is autol loocking right so that that gate will always be shut it will
automatically open meaning you can open it between the hours and then after the hours it automatically closes you have the cameras coming in and then the other piece Chris do you want to speak to the uh zoning and code enforcement officer coming in yes um we uh we're waiting to
get a uh just acceptance um we are we printed the new position here in town for a Deputy zoning officer and co- enforcement officer be full-time Monday through Friday we combine both positions together and they're going be following up on a lot of those types of issues as well um so that so 30% of this person's
U work will be code enforced but the other 70% will be zoning so a lot of these issues we have um and we're also updating the ordinance as well for the uh recycling center so we do have people that are you know dumping after hours or or throwing that we get actually the issu of summonses Waring letters
summonses and um and we sign going up as well that dumping after hours you're going to face prosecution in accordance with the ordinance and I want to highlight that because the way the current ordinances written the police actually are in a position to enforce it so the ordinance changes that are coming to align with the operational management
will fix that so that summonses can be issued and whatnot so just want to kind of give you the updates as we get closer we we'll give more obviously here into the public um but and we just ordered new signage today as well which reflect the new hour also reflect about you know
dumping after hours Also I spoke with councilman deell I might um socialize this B you about the possibility of maybe one Saturday we might each take an hour there just to
feel it and and see it for ourselves um listen I'll do two hours I'll do two hours if I need to um I I've seen the pictures and I understand that the changeing recycling also is
probably um definitely affected the traffic flow there so um we we'll we'll figure it out I I hope you hear that we all feel this pain we know we can see it sense it we hear from other people we've
been aware for a while and taken steps I hope that's what you're hearing because you do such a fine job of communicating on behalf of your neighborhood um so I just want to thank you for that but it it has translated into action and response no thank you I mean obviously
you know we had full support of the neighborhood right and and Drew so thank you I did want to comment on one thing and um particularly the hours uh the reckless driving gets worse or compounded during the times when Third Street is
closed so so 7:30 to 8:30 you have people first of all you have the people that don't care and will drive onto Third Street when the bicyclists are going up and down and then and then you have the people that care but then have to do the refence u-turns while kids are going
down up and down Island and other cars are driving so and then it happens on the back end between 245 and uh 3:15 or whatever 3:30 so just keep those hours are also concerning I don't know what the
solution is we we have the chief here tonight chap here in the back you know you probably have controls chip area during those times yeah that's more so fine you eliminate the people going on the Third Street which is probably more important right the kids but then second to that is the reference driving on
Allan totally and that's why it's a bit premature just to give that because we do have to do coordination with the chief we do have to do coordination with Nick right we have to create operational flows but I think that gut check reaction right to that to the beginning and the end of those hours coincided with third treat is something we have to
take into account make sure we're not pushing a problem somewhere else or ra making a problem somewhere else right yeah it's great Point wel thank you anyone else go to the burrow um I have one thing before I go to uh Allison
um at at the communications meeting uh we had a discussion obviously we haven't had committee reports for a while but we were talking about a new way of eventually informing all of us and communicating um if you take notes at a committee meeting and you want to get
them I'm just reinforcing this you want to get them to Allison um we can get them into the weekly packet at the end of the week so when you receive that packet it has the notes from the no not well not that's the council packet you get that email
every so that it'll help us be engaged on what's going on but if like for recreation DJ does a report after I could get like I don't like some of the count some of the Committees already we put that report in we don't have to reinvent theel but
if there's more we'll figure it out right I Michel's report it just came Friday evening after the perfect perfect we have Mrs Blazer all right hi Ru hi R good
evening it's been a long evening um I think we can all agree that Fair Haven is not getting any larger but we keep but keep getting more people administering things
in town and I can't understand why that is if everybody's doing their job and what is legislated is enforced we should not have this problem we have a tiny tiny
town and I would like to see us cut back as much as we can rather than keeping adding people you want us to get rid of the people I think Zing officer I think is that coming from the zoning officer yes I
don't if if our zoning officer is doing a good organized efficient job why does he need an assistant the town is not that big no I can so just so just to give you an idea that was actually not it's not a it's
not a new position we had a code enforcement officer that worked for us um he resigned the end of last year that was Brock Sebert um he got new employment he was unable to work we also had a um zoning secretary who also worked in that office um who left prior
to me being hired here so that was an open position as well rather than rehire code enforcement officer and rehire another Secretary of the zoning office we combined both positions together with the existing salary is budgeted actually it's a little bit less than what we were paying out before um so it's actually
not a new position it is a new position yes but we're combining two people into one um with the money that we already have budgeted if that makes sense Ruth I was under the impression that Sheila worked for both the planning board and the zoning board no Sheila is
a autonomous employee for the planning board aha yeah yeah I don't know I just think I'm more efficient than you folks are thank you good night thank you Ruth
all right um with that being said uh we are going to move to Executive session formal action being taken no formal actions being taken uh the time is 10:01 p.m. do I have a motion Mo all in favor
anyone opposed all right are we all right uh do I have a motion to turn this meeting at 11:19 motion do I have a
second second all in favor anyone oppos faos do you have two minutes