I'm good. You're good. >> All right. Let's call this meeting to order at 7:03 p.m. with a start of the pledge of allegiance. >> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the
republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, liberty and justice for all. Please join me in a moment of silent reflection. Thank you. Sunshine Law on notice. In accordance with the provisions of the Open Public Meetings Act, public
meetings may be held in person or by means of communication equipment to include streaming services and other online meeting platforms. This meeting is being held in person and through the Zoom meeting platform being broadcast from Burough Hall, 748 River Road, Fair Haven, New Jersey. Public participation
in this regular council meeting of November 10th, 2025 is available by calling phone number or through web conference Zoom. Members of the public will be on mute until it is time for questions or comments which will be announced. At that time, the public has the opportunity to question or comment by phone or through Zoom by the raise
hand button and will be called on at the appropriate time. Notice of this meeting was included in a schedule of meetings which was adopted by resolution number 2025-13 and sent to the Aspbury Park Press and the Two River Times on January 7, 2025 post on the Burough website. The Bolton
Board and Municipal Building and has remained continuously posted as required of the statute. With adequate notice having been given, the B clerk is directed to include this statement in the minutes of this meeting. Allison, I please have a roll call. Council >> members Paul.
Yes. Owie. Yes. >> Present. >> Olson >> here. >> You have attorneys Soel, administrator Bird, Engineer Bardella, Captain Lambert, CFO
Britain, and parks director FJ. >> Thank you. Uh before I move along to workshop sessions, I just want to confirm Cecilia Foster is not here. Is that correct? >> Okay. Thank you. Um we have uh some
workshops tonight. A few sign related workshops it looks like which has been dominating a lot of our time here on the devs. Uh we're starting off with the Sons of the American Revolution tree flap. Um >> Marina. >> All right. Um, do you have anything you
want to say before they >> I just wanted to mention um I don't know if it's in the the email or on the paper, but it's supposed to be approximately 16 in across and uh 12 in. It'll be granite
and the Sons of Revolutionary Yep. That's it. Will be donating it. >> Correct. >> Yes. So, for now, we'll probably just dig a little hole right there. Maybe down the road, we can get uh one of our friends the little cement we keep there
so it doesn't walk away. >> Did it change since the LA? Because the last one I saw was smaller than that. >> So, did it change sizes? >> Maybe. Um the measurement it was I thought it was 9 by 12, but it's 16. So,
it's a little bigger. >> Okay. >> And the tree's been planted. Oh, that's good. >> Awesome. Congratulations. >> First one, right, >> for like all of them. >> That's awesome. >> No, no, a whole another story. >> Another day.
>> Congrats. >> I was like the fourth one. >> Oh, the first. Yes. For the Sons of American. Yes. Yes. First one. >> Is this Is this the one that was a sapling from the from another tree? >> No, this is was the princess elm.
>> You guys know Antonio or >> Yeah, I remember. That's separate. >> That's a different Yes. >> Want to have questions on this? >> Just I mean, we met at the last workshop, right? And we have to codify, right, uh, Andrew, our our signs. Um, so
if we're if we're adding this into it, right, we definitely want to make sure that we set the standard and we have the president, right? So, we've agreed to >> scouts, right, with that. Um, >> but we just scouts without a an an um explanation or description. So,
I I mean I like this how it is. The only thing I would maybe add is a burrow logo somewhere. Do we need want to have that? Is that allowed to be added? >> No, I think it's just >> Yeah, I think it's >> again like I mean I voted to keep the
description for the Boy Scouts. So, I feel a little bit hypocritical if we vote to put this through the description and we don't, you know, we should vote for the Boy Scout the Eagle Scouts. >> I I don't I don't disagree with you
actually. Um, you know, listen, we can make distinctions. I I think there's a distinction between someone putting up a sign that um honors themsel in some way versus
versus a sign that's honoring our country, but also I'm saying, Michael, that I agree with you. Yeah. >> So, I you know, we could play that game all day of we could do this and not not that. Um I guess it comes down to whether >> the people on this desk want to move forward with this.
I don't know. >> Are we obligated >> to have the signing? I believe so. >> What do they do now? I think we asked that last tree. >> I didn't know, but I paid for that tree.
>> Um, in order to be part of this program, I have to get Yeah, you have to put the sign. >> So, let me just get some advice here. before we start violating everyone's rights. We agreed on signage and I believe it's
similar even though it's not an individual. It's a group of individuals, right? It's I I understand it's a country where it's where is it? Sons >> of the American Revolution. I they're on the side of caution. I would recommend an eight. I believe we
approved 8 by10. >> Yeah, 8 by10 was a size sign and again with just three things. its name project and then the um the year of the project. So looking at this if this was an 8 by10 sign and we had liberty tree
commemorating the 250th anniversary of the American independence and has the year 1776 to 2026 and mama chapter New Jersey the society of S. I would say that would fit the criteria that we um in the parameters we put for the boy scouts. So but the center does not fit
the criteria. So I would say that would be the only thing that was different. If we removed that center language and made it an 8 by10 sign, it would fit the criteria to be equal sign. >> Were weren't we putting your name on or >> No. >> Okay.
>> Okay. >> So So >> just to make it small so they can make it smaller. >> I understand. >> Before I move forward on what you just said, I just want to make sure I properly understand. Again, I was agreeing on that, but I thought that the standard we set was a standard for the scouts. You're saying that that now goes
for all signs. So like when we talk about fair baseball in a second, are they going to put up 8 by10 signs on the outfield fence? >> No, but I I thought we were looking as to signage to commemorate whether it's a project or an individual,
the likeness of a of something that commemorates our American history where >> I I understand. >> Can I elaborate further? Sure. We have a sign on the dock that talks about or we did I don't know I haven't been down there recently to remember which one is
not there but it's about supertorrm standing and you know it's might we we have a sign at third street trail that's a much bigger sign I I I don't think that every sign is necessarily the same now if in the spirit of of what we did with the scouts we want to say
>> hey let's create our own version of the sign and place it I don't know whether we can or cannot do that and just eliminate the mission statement or whatever we said where it says Liberty Tree commemorating the 250th anniversary with the dates um with the two logos and
just maybe who that chapter is, you know, like to me that sounds like a good thing. Are you saying that that's in violation of something? >> No, but remember this is in an individual that is purchasing a tree to be placed. She's not taking any recognition. I thought that was
something that was spoken about I believe at the lab. >> Right. >> Right. Susan Sor will come with you last time. >> So I do >> because of the size we >> that worry about it. >> Do they have any requirements for the sign? Like if we didn't have the mission statement is that
>> I believe so. That's the whole reason why they're doing all this. Um I don't know for sure. >> Can I just ask a question? Is that they will pay for the sign or >> uh No. I believe that's why they're doing this whole program is for the
recognition and that's why they want a sign by the trade. >> Who's who's paying for the sign? >> The Sons of the American Revolution. >> Yeah, I would still be putting I still think we'd be putting their name on the >> minus the I think it's the mission
statement that we're talking about and the the part in the middle that's dedicated all we cherish the precious gift of liberty. Yeah, that's the part that I think based on what we've discussed before we want to be consistent with. I I still think it could say,
and I apologize for not knowing the background of Suns Liberty, I assuming assume it's a it's a good organization. Um I I think there's no problem in having their name there, the logo, the picture of the soldier, the Liberty Tree, the date commemorating the 250th
anniversary. It's just the middle part. Do you guys agree with that? >> Yeah. And I want to for the record explain why I voted last time against having the the mission statement. And it's it's not because I disagree with anything in there. I agree with all of this. What I was thinking about is in 50
years or 100 years someone says, "Oh, they weren't patriots. They were colonizers or whatever." And they want to rip the sign out. And I want to try to make make as high a probability as possible the sign stays there forever. >> Okay. Um that that was my thinking on
the scouts and consistency is important. Um I I just don't want the sign to be ripped out by a future generation. That that's all I'm angling at. >> I I don't ever want to have to discuss whether that middle part is appropriate or everyone agrees with it for any sign.
Yeah. Moving forward. That's where that's where I'm concept. >> So I guess my question goes back to before is you said it had to be the exact way they had it. Is that for them to pay for it? probably. But if you just shorten down and tell me exactly what you want, I'll go back. You go back. >> Yep.
>> Okay. That >> You want to do it right on that? >> I'll just write it right on here. >> To me, it would be the exact sign of just the middle without the statement. So, let's remove Let's remove any ami tree, the commemorating sentence. >> I think by putting it in granite though,
I don't think you can shrink it. So, originally it was going to be on a piece of aluminum, >> but since they offered to pay for it, we've thought something heavier and better, that might be the problem for that >> because they're there's a guy from South Carolina that I could barely understand
is the one that actually does the etching of it. >> My understanding from the scout conversation was that we were talking specifically about the scouts, >> right? So, >> I agree. >> Okay. >> And so, this is not >> completely different. Completely different. We had talked about
potentially having further conversations around an ordinance for all signs, but we haven't gotten there yet. >> Right. >> Right. >> So, I'm wondering if there's an opportunity to separate the two for just this purposes of this conversation. >> I think I I personally think we kind of have, but we're trying to stay
consistent within that at the same time. >> Yeah. >> Um I certainly don't want to be viewed as hypocritical either based on how we addressed the last one. Um, and I think by doing that I don't I don't necessarily have as big a issue with the
size as I do with the content. Again, that's a personal opinion. >> Yeah, the size there's I think there is a little bit of difference between it's in the ground or not. So that that could be were you looking for a reason to say that it would be bigger if it's in the ground? >> And some of the issu issue might be too
they might because again you're talking about a granite sign. They might already have a die that's cast for this. So in order to minimize it, they may have to cast a new die and that's probably costly versus, you know, we're talking about making sign. We're talking laminate here. >> Oh, because it's just this would be
everyone's getting the same one. >> Yes. >> But that might be that might be an issue to come up with casting a new die, but you'll take a picture. >> I mean, I think this is just bringing to the forefront again like we really need to make a decision on what our sign standards are in general because we're
this is going to keep coming up. I mean, we're talking about two different kinds of signs here and it's hard to weigh like I don't even know what the next one is coming. So, >> I mean, if they've already cast the die for like as economies of scale,
>> and if I go back to the meeting that we had, right, we were all talking about having the sign like we can't I don't think it's fair to go back and say, well, you've already cast it. They're going to do this times 250, but one of the 250 is going to be different unless
we pay for it. I mean, that's an assumption based on that. >> Size might be something here that we might be able to get around because of, you know, it's like the dasher of like, you know, impossibility, right? If it's impossible to create a smaller sign with
what they're doing, right? As opposed to the Eagle Scout which is celebrating only one individual, right? one individual and the sign is it's not standard. It's not it's not it's unique to that person. >> I get it. Right. But my what my fear is,
Andrew is so we don't want to we want to set a standard, right? We haven't even codified yet, right? The the scouts, we need to do that and hopefully get that through this year so that we can at least start the process for signs. It's hard to set a standard for
something in the ground when I think you can make any argument on okay cool the pollinator garden I'm going to put the sign in the ground so I can get the granite sign versus that right so like >> it's almost for me I think treating this
as like an out like an outlier like it's very hard to make a decision grounded in precedent >> I think I think we would do that forever and that was a little bit of my point but I agree we're going to do that forever though like we could set a standard and then we'll have another outlier that'll come up that we didn't
think of. So the best we can do as a as a group and future councils is try to be as consistent as possible and make the best decision for the burough they're in. >> Can I clarify? Sorry. >> Oh, I was going to clarify something that you said that the Eagle Scout was
just giving the accolades to one person originally. It wasn't. If we had kept the description, the original description was actually talking about the collaboration with multiple different groups and then we chose to take that out. So if anything, we're actually we chose to just highlight one person versus
>> well project. It was one person >> but but in the description it did highlight other groups within the burrow that worked with him. So it it would you know >> if it didn't put the the the the you know the child's you know name front and
center as this is his Eagle Scout project >> but this the description did talk about more than just him. >> Yeah absolutely. >> So it's not I mean here or there but it wasn't just necessarily piloting one
person if that's our distinction for this one. And >> you know what? We have we have spent a huge amount of time on this and we're every every sign we're we're discussing as if it's the only sign in the world. And until we we come up with a standard
for signs, break it down into boy scout signs, baseball signs, >> in the ground, above ground. >> We're going to go through this every time. And until we do, I I think that that the Sons of Liberty sign is appropriate because we don't really have
anything that says it's not appropriate. >> Kind of reminds >> And yeah, I was going to just say only turn 250 once, >> but every side's going to have its own particular >> uniqueness that will that will lend
itself to a conversation. But we we've got to get these the signage under control. And until we do, every sign that comes up, we're going to approach it as if it's the only one. >> Are you talking just about plaques or
like banner? >> I think we treat plaques and signs all under the same >> I'll make a motion. Sure. All right. I'll make a motion that we approve this with the change
suggested suggested unless there's the the die cast issue and they only have one that we let it go that we let them put it on there if it's if it's a um I don't want to be the one only 250
second >> Allison may please have a roll call me Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Olson. >> Yes. >> Okay. So, I'll ask and then I'll email
Allison. >> The obviously um the directive we would like is to do it without the >> without the middle part. Yes. But you're fine with the two >> the cost then I think the direction is to go for
>> Okay. But you're fine with the two on the side. >> I don't know if there's any problems with >> Okay. All right. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thanks, Marie. >> And mayor, I just would like right since we've set the standard for the scouts, I think we need to get that ordinance introduced and adopted as swiftly as
possible to start there and then we can add on and build. >> No, >> no, there's no ordinance. We just agree with the standard. >> So, I think we need to get that going and set the language and just for scouts or whole >> start with scouts and then branch from
there and let other crowd talk about fair um is anyone here. >> All right, you guys want to talk about more signs? >> Just introduce >> I'm Ben Newman. I'm on the baseball board spearheading some of the
fundraising efforts and um we'd like to revisit a agreement between the uh town and fair haven baseball in 2016. Um the town did allow us to put up signs temporarily
banners on Fair Haven Field number four in the outfield. Um if anyone's been to any other little leagues around the area, you see them kind of up mostly local businesses. Um the high school even has them on the football field. Um
we are looking to uh do this again for to help with uh 12U uh fundraising for Coopertown and some of the proceeds would probably stay within the baseball program as well for field improvements and whatnot. Um the original
agreement was for 16 banners. uh between the the fence panels out there, there is space for up to probably I think close to 32. Um so we would love to do more if possible. Um we do think that um Fair Haven Field probably sees the most
games. We estimate about 80 per season. So it's about 5,000 eyeballs. Um the banner sizes would be around 3 by 8. Um >> it's 3 feet by 8 ft. >> 3 ft by 8t. Yeah. And uh the signs would go up in March
the beginning of the season and come down the end of the season which is usually the first week in in November. >> Thanks. You good? Any other official information? >> Um I have a few questions. Uh on the
original agreement I'm reading back from 16, it says that a portion of banner revenues must go towards general community improvements. or are is the suggestion that all of the revenue now goes towards um
>> uh not necessarily. I think the agreement in 16 and DJ can confirm was we provided a portagon near Fair Haven Field number four for general purposes, public purposes. Um yeah, so it varied
by year. Um so it was the community center shed that uh the Cadillac baseball put there but other sports were also sourced up there. So we felt that that was that felt under general community improvement not just solely for baseball and then in other years we've used it for things like the Porter
John that was at Bing Fields which will remain up for the whole year. So not just baseball folks would use it but the whole community. >> Yeah, we talked that was a top >> maybe like this next year if this was potentially like maybe a water fountain over there including some water fields. Right.
>> Typically those were um the baseball board would come to the rec committee every year. We would talk about it and then um report that back to the bureau administrator who would then share it with the governing body if there was any further discussion or approvals needed for how that uh comm community
improvement was going to be uh needed. >> Okay. And then the the rest it says baseball specific improvements. There's not something on this agreement that talks about donations for Coopertown. I'm not saying that I wouldn't be fine with that, but I think it would have to be amended as part of the agreement to
to show that I also I'm just going to throw out for everyone. I mean, I personally like to be consistent if if we're going to approve this as a body. Um I I think it should be restricted to logo and name of the business. I I also don't
think we want long mission statements from these businesses. Um, I would also say that, you know, we need to put a restriction on, um, alcohol, marijuana, political type of tobacco, you know, to tobacco type of
advertisements. Some of those might be covered by the state already. I don't know. But, uh, we certainly would want to have that language. I don't think you guys would want to accept that anyway, but it should probably be in there just in case. >> We we could send something as a to as an approval once we got the sponsors as
well. I I think we would want I think we would want to codify that though within the ordinance on top of just getting the approval also on the back end. >> Um that's all I have. >> I have a couple of things. >> Um what was the back in 2016? What was
the side? I was on I think I was on parks and wreck back then. So I remember this conversation but I don't remember the size of the original banners. >> I believe that's the same size you do now. 3x8s. Yeah, they're the same size. Yeah, >> 3x8. And I But I do remember that one of
the one of the conditions was they had to be rolled up. They were only exposed during the actual game. Is that >> No, just for the the season. So they would be taken down after the baseball season, which ends um you saying after the first week of November. >> But they weren't rolled up in the April.
>> No. >> Okay. And but we had 16. >> 16 was the max that was allowed under the April. And we did have something in there for like inappropriate uh signs as well that's in the original agreement, but it was never spelled out exactly what that meant. >> And it wasn't limited to uh knockbook
props, right? >> No. No, wasn't. >> Um so we're only talking about FH4. We're not talking about H1 or community center. Just this one field. >> Yes. >> Um Allison, couple questions. So it said the agreement was reviewed every three
years. So are we the fourth review? So it was >> done in 2016. I don't think we got anything after that. >> So there wasn't a re-review after that. In 2020, Fair Baseball decided to stop doing it. Um, so Bar hasn't done it for the past uh several years.
>> Okay. So just a question I have for us. Do we want to make a time contingent or make it an approval right to come back each time unless there's a change to the guard guard rails? What's the cost per banner that you charge the company? We
we think it's going to be somewhere a little under $100. We're looking to potentially do $600 a banner. So if you're at 16, it's $8,000. >> Okay. And what's the exact time? >> Like for what? >> Like basically whenever baseball season
kicks off should be the end of March to the first weekend in November. >> So limited in August, but >> sound like you're starting up. What? What was it? >> They're making five each time.
>> You missed. Wonderful. >> Well, this just this was just the first we didn't go too far in this. We want to make sure we get >> Are we um >> we talk about the numbers? >> I was just going to get are we going to be cool with 32? >> So, the my only thought I don't care
about the number as much as I do the look. Is that going to look on the outfield? Um, best way I can explain is there was one point I think we we um we did the original downtown too many lights
on on River Road and the the newer style we we thinned them out and it looks much nicer. You know, I don't want it to look um >> too crowded. >> Yeah. >> Well, they asked for 32, right? >> Maybe 24 to do more than 16. I
understand 32 from from >> the conversation. I don't think there was any rhyme or reason to why 16, but I think there was discussion that in the future maybe it could expand to started at 16 and then it just never blew from there. >> You kind of tucked back. It's not like anyone really sees it, you know? It's
not it's not like right the center of we're all cutting trees around it, too. Yeah. >> Yeah. I'd be okay. >> It's on the perimeter of Fair Haven Fields. like you know we don't have the public going through there because it's kind of soft. Um there is one house that
backs up their own >> there's two kind of two houses. There's one that's sort of center right field and there's one in left field. >> Yeah. >> So I'll say where my head is at. I think we asked for an updated agreement.
>> We removed the time commitment. I don't think they need to come back unless they want to change right some parameter. I think the portion of revenues needs to be a percentage. remove ambiguity, right? It should be a set percentage just to make it less ambiguous. >> They're going into anticipated.
>> Yeah. I just have one question just to bring up be careful that we don't go into a different um direction as far as collecting the funds for this, this will be handled through fairing baseball. Correct. >> Because the only issue we run into if we are collecting the funds or we are involved in any portion of this, then it
can is considered a concession and we're selling advertising and then we have to put that out for an RFP and we'd have to do bids for that space. So that's the one thing that we have to be careful about. Um is if this is something that you're doing as fair haven baseball and the burrow is not involved in it. >> Correct. >> Um then that we just have to make sure
that it's handled through fair haven baseball and we're not handling that aspect of it as far as protection of funds >> and any of the money that comes back would you would pay for. Well, I mean, it's something, you know, again, if you, you know, whenever you guys decide you want to get back to Burrow, you guys decide to get back to Burough, your fundraising, um, it might not necessarily come from the sale of these
signs, >> but then then this entire bullet here, right? I'm just going off of number four, then should be strong. >> Probably saying an aortion of revenue must. >> So, right, yes, that should because technically it one could argue that we're selling a concession without an
RFP if we're getting a portion of revenue from it. For just for the record though, Fair Haven Baseball did put a sign significant amount of money towards the renovation on Fair Haven. So the burrow and Haven baseball. So just they have done the same. >> Yeah. Which that's fine. I just think we
just have to be very clear that they're selling signs. They're this is their thing. We're not running a concession, you know, where we have to do an RFP and open up the bids. If Fair Haven Baseball out of their fundraising efforts wants to donate money to buy a shed or do, you know, field, you know, um, you know,
upgrades, that's one thing, but let's not say it's coming out of the because it may not be. >> Check. Check. So, remove the time commitment. Once it's approved, it's approved. Remove the fourth bullet. Remove any revenue going to the burrow. I think we need to include the time that it goes up and when it comes down. Not
first week or when it starts, but a date. and then >> also codify that there's no political signs, tobacco, etc., etc., etc. >> Um, you I would add to that, too. Who takes the who puts it up and takes it down? KDPW has been helpful in the past, but we're talking >> it would have to be unfair.
>> It's a baseball board. >> Yeah, we can't have the involvement of it. >> I'd like to address the time. We have a lot of people that come every year for permission to put up the exact same stuff. not the baseball sign, but Durmer Dreams, uh the Fair Haven Business
Association, and because they put up the signs, we require them to come every year for permission. So, as much as I would like to give baseball card and said, "Do it every year." I think they should follow the same guidelines that that other people who put up signs do.
So, they should come back every year. >> I I'm fine with that. I have something I want to hear, but I don't want to At the end, I'll bring it up because my mind's working here. I have a concern. I >> I hear that, but the signs that are usually in question are for the same
real estate space. So, are we then going to allow other entities to use the exterior figure haven for like if Dur wanted to put their sign there, you know, from the month of >> But you can't stop them from asking. >> Totally get. So then if we're looking if
we're looking then to generalize the usage of baseball field fencing for sign beyond fair haven baseball then I would agree with that statement. But this is an area in town where there was direct contributions between Fair Haven
Baseball and the governing body to redo the fields. Right. They they they paid for half of the cost I believe or 15 grand right where it was. So >> they have contributed but I I just think it >> why why don't we keep why why don't we keep it three years then how it used to
be said >> because it wasn't it wasn't followed it in 16 and then it came back in 20 right >> stop doing it stopped in 20 but it wasn't renewed in 19 right maybe co >> they would have had to come back 20 >> sure >> you know maybe co
>> I I I just I just think giving someone or any entity unlimited >> it's fair it's I'm access to signage is not >> have no problem but I'll give them for a year >> or three >> or three >> but you know she said car lunch so
you're good >> I don't think it's car I would you would you be okay with three years the way it used to be said or you'd still be uncomfortable >> that was our original agreement with baseball then I would be I'm okay with three I'm not okay with unlimited >> I think you put it in three you know
So >> I have one other just quick thing. I don't think we have a special projects administrator. >> We do special projects. >> Oh, forget it. I forgot that. >> Keep it in there. >> I'll make a motion.
>> Second. Wait, did you want to say something? >> Um, I'm going to say after >> I'll specify the motion. >> Um, we'll keep three years in. We're going to remove the fourth bullet in its entirety, right, Andrew? And ensure that there's nothing talking revenue back to the borrow.
>> Yes. >> We're going to have a time commitment in here of when it goes up, when it comes down, like actual date. >> And then there'll be a section on the types of banners that are not allowed. That is my motion. >> And the number of banners. >> Oh,
>> I'm good. Going up to 24. >> 24. >> 24. the motion. >> Is there a second? >> Second. >> Also, I please have a roll call. >> Council member. >> Yes.
>> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Also, >> yes. >> Thank you guys. >> Thank you. >> So, my concern is what you said that that I'm assuming that was your conversation with Nancy.
>> Y. So if so we we somewhat just set a precedent of or maybe not of people for of for-profit businesses paying for signs on public property, >> right?
>> So how do we handle that going forward? >> So >> with other for-profit businesses. So, so that's so we so again saying this we are not just to make it clear we are not selling those signs. So Fair Haven Baseball is selling those signs. So they're selling that
advertisement as a fundraiser and they're using Burough property to display it that they've received permission from the governing body to display those signs they use for advertisement as a fundraiser for their nonprofit to display them on burough property. So we are not selling them
>> their nonprofit. I I don't my Okay, but I understand that. But it sounds what you were saying is equal time for everyone on public property is the issue. >> So if we were to so we were to sell them and Nancy might jump in here um in a minute, but we were to if we were to
sell them, we would have to put out an RFP and put it out to bid. And as far as whoever bid on them, we'd have to reward to bid like we would do any other project because we would be receiving the funds for another concession. So, if a for-profit business reaches out to us and wants to put a public sign on public
property, not talking about fair. >> Well, no, a private sign on public property. >> Sorry. Sorry. A a private sign on public property. Not talking about fair and for talking about in other generalities. We have to open that up to everyone through an RFP process >> if we're going to receive funding. If
we're going to see revenue from it. Yes. If that's something the council chooses to do, if you choose to open up property for private signs on public land, yes, you would have to go out. It's a concession. You would have to go out and bid it out. >> If we said we weren't charging people on
public lands, then we would have to offer anyone that had a private business the same opportunity to put signage on our property. Correct. >> Correct. Is that going to be then an issue with benches that the beautifification committee is is
proposing? So the benches are they're being purchased and they have memorial signs. Correct. >> But is it like No, it is not the same thing. Okay. >> And now if >> they're buying that bench, they're
paying for the bench for the platform. >> It's a donation. >> Now Dunkin Donuts wanted to sponsor a >> That's kind of what I'm saying. They want to sponsor a bench for advertisers for their group or acme or any other like the whole thing back end is Dunkin Donut everybody in the business that
does >> it's a small sign donating >> I'm just making sure that we're not >> and this one quick question so he Chris articulated if it's going to generate revenue if we charge for it >> right
>> there's no threshold a bit with that just it's charged. It could be five bucks. >> It's a concession. It's considered a charge for it. You have to allow everyone that wants to put it though equal access. >> Yeah. No, I understand. I just wanted to confirm. Okay. >> Otherwise, they go through the RFP process to determine who gets the space
and for the amount of time. And >> so, we're going to codify somebody for sign. >> It's not on the agenda. Let's uh let's let's maybe put it on the agenda in the future and talk about it then. Um, next up, historic association of Fairyman and Fairman Business
Association request to host a U tide on Main Street event on December 14th at Bsentennial Hall. Historic Twist Chapel is still here representing those groups. >> Hello. >> Hi, Elise. How are you? >> Good. How are you? >> Good.
>> Elise Casey, 263 Baron Road. Um, the Historic Association of Fair Haven in collaboration with the Fair Dis Association is requesting host an event on Sunday, December 14th at Bsentennial Hall. Um, that day we're going to have a
trolley around the town. Uh, Santa will be at the firehouse and we are, it's part of our holiday 2025 campaign. It's going to be called Yolk Tide on Main Street and we think it's going to be a beautiful way to showcase by and bring
people to the business district. questions up here. >> Is this the the same trolley when we go shopping down? >> Yeah. Saturday. >> No, >> it's a different day. It's the same concept but a different day. >> It's it's the same kind of tr >> Yes. Different day though. When is that event?
>> That's um small business Saturday on November 29th. >> That's It's the Saturday after Thanksgiving. >> Okay. >> Is this the same as the tree lighting? >> No. No, that's um Friday, December 5th.
>> Um Okay. So, insurance is taken care of. Is that Allison? We're good with the insurance. >> I haven't gotten anything. >> Um yes, I have. >> She's ordered it. >> Yeah, I have it. Pending approval. I I
will provide that for you to >> Okay. Um can you explain the alcohol side of this, please? Um, well, it's something we've put a lot of thought into. Um, ideally we offer some sort of festive holiday punch. Uh, preferably
somewhere towards the back end of my hall, maybe by the stage or section off the kitchen area roped off and have someone checking at least. >> It's they pay for the alcohol and it's just served as compliment. >> Complimentary. Yeah.
>> We don't need a permit for that. permit until um it's approved >> on on that. Was there any conversation of drinking in a church >> like as far as >> they did it for an art show raising
funds for >> the former. What at least when you say collaboration with the business district is every business on board with this? I'm just thinking like the dates between November 9 29, excuse me, December 5th, December 14th, it's a lot for them. Is that
everyone's on board? >> I mean, as far as the business association and something >> Yeah. >> Okay. I didn't know that would be too taxy to do three big events. >> It seems like a like a lot in a short amount of time, but I do know the business district is looking for more
opportunities to get exposure. I mean, I think it'll be very sweet. What else is happening in Bsentennial Hall? >> Um, so we hope to just do I don't know if you attended the last um the holiday open house we had a few years ago, but it was kids crafts and yeah um we
showcase just some of our archive and old photos. >> Uh basically it's that for now. Maybe we'll have some carolers, >> but nothing um nothing major. I mean Santa will be the firehouse, so it's more of a way to get people around town west end to west to the east end. Are you putting a tree up because I know
that was maybe an issue last year. >> Yeah, every year we put up a a wishing tree outside of by Hall. So that'll be there in the beginning of December. >> Um is there any request that DPW use any >> no >> anything like that? >> No setup whatsoever.
>> Um we would probably need some tables and a few chairs, but no that we would we would set up ourselves. >> No need for police if there's alcohol being served, >> you know. Sherry's here. >> Shouldn't >> we need police and alcohol being served?
>> She didn't know the alcohol served at the event. I heard about the trolley being part of the fire same day as firehouse. Um like what is the person getting one cop or can they reserve and get as many as
they like monitoring that of how many right so that somebody isn't drinking a lot >> right of course um I believe at the large shower was a two drink >> that's it probably it would be similar to that
>> you only allowed two drinks per person >> and is someone going to be monitoring that and >> we could have someone I Yeah, I like it would be very similar to the estuary. >> I don't know if you guys require police officer to be there. How long does it be there?
>> Um 11 to five. >> It would cost right. >> I don't know. I guess I don't because alcohol is being served. >> I don't know what that'll call. I that's I'm getting the same sense from everyone that the the only issue with this event
that I'm hearing unless I'm missing something is the alcohol. I think everyone has some concern over that. Um we have a situation where you know it's a public event where anyone from any town can come into town. We want them to come into town obviously and spend money in these businesses. Um, but the idea of
them drinking and then trying to get on the trolley and get off of the trolley and a nonprofit entity or multiple nonprofit entities, I'm not sure which one is actually um responsible at the end of the day, has to verify whether someone has one drink or two drinks or three drinks or four drinks. I think
that's the part that's making me uneasy outside the alcohol. I don't have any issues, but I don't know how to satisfy that. >> I have one other one just to address. I know the last event and I don't remember which one it was, but they put holes in the walls at Bsentennial Hall. >> That was the orange show, >> right? So, I don't know if there's like
a security positive, but I want to make sure that like we look before and after. I mean, yes, we're going to renovate Bsentennial Hall soon, but I don't want to exacerbate anything with like, you know, hanging up and the paint comes off the wall or stuff like that. So, >> I don't think you hang up anything.
Alison, like when someone gets a permit for Bison Hall, is there a security deposit? Is there does the insurance cover that? Like what? >> No, >> we would be named additional insured if there was any damage and all harmless. >> I actually it's it's interesting you say
I actually think we need to um codify that in all situations, not necessarily just target this one. >> Yeah. to have that um to be protected as a burrow just in case anyone damages bison hall or new beautiful
>> we get a whole correspondence for any of our >> so we are having coverage so if somebody you know broke a sink in the community center or you know you know broke a window that would be covered on the insurance policy you know we able to go after for that
>> I don't have an issue with the alcohol um if we can find a way to regulate a little more like couldn't you do bracelets and you know sometime the bracelets that have the two tab like I guess what they do with um like the fireman's fair you know when you work you get those two and you can get two
meals so if you can find a way to do that I would feel comfortable first event >> well this is something that the burrow has to look into for every event that we do right >> yeah because we do what >> we spoke about right and we spoke about this before you know anything that
involves olves the burrow you know we have to look at the ordinance and we spoke about this I believe it was when you can probably correct me if I'm wrong it was during the fair even farmers market application when they were going to serve the alcohol I believe we had the same discussion so if we're going to
you know enforce things let's enforce it you know uniformally and that's something we have to look in totally for every event >> as to how the problem with the difference with therapy day is we have police officers there the entire time.
>> Farmers market. >> Farmers market. >> But only it was a tasting. Exactly. And it was their liquor license. I don't know if that's the right word, but like it was their license on the line as they were spend a lot of time on. This is a little bit different, right? It's >> it's having a couple pictures. Right. And and and
>> right from 11:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. Would having alcohol or not having alcohol make a big difference? Like it's not like the estuary event which was at night or varating the at night. I'm just wondering if if it doesn't change the dynamic of the event. Isn't that
>> No, I mean if it's something that you guys aren't comfortable with, we don't have to do it at home. >> Could you do a bal? >> Yeah. No, it's not. It'd be great and something, you know, to add on, but it's not >> deal. Yeah. Okay.
>> I have a question and and I I apologize. I couldn't hear what Captain Lambert was saying. Is there a police presence required to buy Centennial Hall just to have it? I don't >> Are you asking her if she thinks there
should be a police officer present for her event? Lambert >> whether Lambert there should be a police >> if they are applying it as for a security plan. So if you say I want a police officer there than if I don't have to make arrangements to have we
want to have if we think there will be extra people coming into town wouldn't we want a little bit more police presence anyway maybe but then who pays for that >> they would they would have to pay for it because it's their event so the cost wouldn't go to the burrow because again it's a private event for the business association so
>> police could also do a driveby like as part of the normal routine I think we simplify it making a mocktail it still has the same festive spirit everything Sounds good. And they call it a day. Is that all right? >> But no on-site police officer. >> I think there's less of a reason for it
if you go to the alcohol personally. And I'm sure they they'll do their their rounds. Save them some money. >> Absolutely. >> Yeah. So, make a motion to approve and >> motion to approve. Stands alcohol. >> Second.
>> Alison, may I please have a roll call? >> Council members. Yes. Yes. >> Yes. >> Permitted >> also. >> Yes. Thank you. Sandy, you'll >> all right. Uh, next up we have 2026
brush and leaf schedule. >> Uh, it's just it's standard every year. We just It's part of our I mean every year, right? We vote on the schedule before it goes into the newsletter. It's important that it's voted on before the newsletter's available. And just to confirm, we're making no I know there's
some discussion. We're making no changes from >> no changes. Keep consistent. Everything that we've done ongoing new pickup is in partners. >> All right. I'll make a motion to approve the 2026 PLC. That's second. >> All in favor? >> Anyone opposed?
>> Thank you. Um, next up, I think I'll actually take this one if that's all right. So, I just want to explain where this came from. Um, I went for a tour um with uh total council president Cotch
last Monday. Um, she wanted to take me through the bird sanctuary and show me all the progress that had been made and it was pretty awesome. The downside of our trip that day is as we walked the trails um, we encountered what I would
call a BMX offroad track. Um, obviously a bunch of people have been back there with shovels. We found four shovels. We found a ton of ramps, holes. Um, it was a little bit discouraging to see all the hard work that would was
done. Um, you know, turn the condition of these trails in this manner. Now, we already have a ban on ebikes in all these areas, but what I saw when I was walking around partying B bird sanctuary, there's no reason to have any bikes back there. Zero. This isn't like
Fairman Fields where you have flat lands and you can recreationally bike under the right conditions. Um the the landscape there just doesn't afford any reasonable um suggestion for that recreation. In fact, it shouldn't. But
we don't have any ordinance banning the bikes in that area. So that's what I'm asking for is in addition to the ebike ban, I'm asking for a ban on bikes only in the Harding Bird Sanctuary. I'm not looking to ban normal bikes right now in the natural area. Um and I'm, you know,
obviously I'm also going to use this opportunity again to talk about ebikes and the danger of ebikes. Um it's a huge safety issue in the Burough Fair Haven. I'm not going to stop talking about it. um while I'm up on the stasis because I want every single person that gets on
one of those bikes to get home at the end of the night and be safe. Um but that's not on the agenda right now. Harding Bird Sanctuary is Do you guys have any question? >> Yes. >> Um I'm not as familiar with it, but can it be used as a cutthrough though? So people are living on the other side of
it. I mean if kids because otherwise then those kids have to go on ridge road and I think like as a parent I would prefer them to be in the trail than on ridge. So I don't that would be my only hesitation is eliminating a trail that kids are like a safe if you I mean
you're saying the ground is not safe but in terms of traffic that would be safer. >> They could go Harrison Harbor. >> So I think there's safer outlets >> if you go if you go through there you're also on Ridge Road with no sidewalk on either side of you. Um, you're better
off, you know, we I think Harrison that's where we built new ones like five years ago or whatever or three years ago in there to Harrison. Yeah. >> We we put them in. So, it's you're there's other outlets to get you where you want to be that are safer. >> Okay. >> You know, >> mayor, just two things. And
>> one where where does it like bird is one of multiple open areas, right? So like where does it end as far as like banning and you know safety preservation? I know you hit upon hey we're not talking about natural right now. We're talking about
this. That's number one. And number two like from an enforcement practicality perspective if if the enforcement's not there and the education's not there we can have all the like ordinance we want. So can you just help me with >> So my jobs and your job is not
enforcement. our job is to give enforcement the tools to enforce, right? That's what public do as far as where it stops. Maybe it doesn't stop, but from my standpoint, the way that I see this, >> if you walk those trails in the back,
it's all peaks and valleys. There's not flat land there. There's not an area where it's um, you know, you're cruising along, relaxing, biking, or whatever. This is an opportunity. I think there's even some liability there for kids that are even trying not to do stunts and
stuff like that. It's just not conducive to bike riding when we don't have it on the books right now. Check. Check. >> It's also packaging a lot of the understory because creating trails >> total. Totally get it. Right. And the trails don't go out to Princeton or Harbor
>> that it's obvious the trails are by Ridge Road >> and it's the trails are just lined with trees and you know one slip on the bike and they're going to take ahead of them to the tree. >> Be beyond the safety side of things too. I just want to make sure everyone here
realizes the things I encountered like there's bridges that are made there. The kids are ripping the bridges up to build rampstones. >> Oh, they're destroying property. >> It's a It's a >> destroying property thing though. Like, so I don't >> separate
>> if we like vandalism. >> Yeah, it's vandalism. So, I think that's like >> it's a pervasive issue though in general. >> Um, and I think especially running Bird, it also would give the police the tools to say anybody that they see headed in that direction, they know they shouldn't
be back there. Amen. >> It also weakens the bridges that that the people who are in the sanctuary, they're walking there. >> Yeah. They get break and get hurt. >> They get it. It sets up a dangerous situation for them. >> Has this come up in the um bird san bird
sanctuary meetings at all? Like the committee meetings? I know there's a committee. So, I'm just wondering >> as far as about bites. Yeah, >> it has. So last couple meetings I usually attend them with with council president Kch and last couple meetings we have discussed about you know bikes being back there and I know I've reached
out to police several times. I've had discussions with our DVW director Nick Porchinsky um you know when a lot of this was found and it had is it is an issue so they're aware of it and they understand the need to prevent bikes from going in there as well. I also want to veer in another direction and I know
you know Carolyn over there probably get upset too like it's this is this is also a pervasive issue very similar with the bridges being taken apart and stuff in the natural area as well you know it's I do think it's a little bit of a different landscape I think there is room for people not on bikes but on
regular bikes to enjoy our natural areas and find ways to um use them as as you know for bike riding in the trails um the vandalism is a separate issue but at the hearting I don't see any reason whatsoever anyone should be backed out of the way. >> And Josh, is it bikes, ebikes, scooters,
like >> ebikes are already outlawed for, you know, in all of our natural areas. I believe that's codified. We're talking about all of these for the Harley. >> And we and we've already purchased signs, too, that we've put up in our natural area. Also, our Fair Haven dock
as well because we had issues with, you know, people riding ebikes on there as well, getting out. Um, so we have um we have signs up there as well for the enforcement. And once this will pass, we've I've actually um proactively ordered signs um that we can put up at the Harding Sanctuary so we can uh
notify residents as well. >> Trust what you're saying. I think I always want to like visually see this. >> I'll take you there. I would love to. All right, let's do that. >> And and also this this isn't something we're voting on right now. It's going to have to be introduced in the next meeting. So absolutely go take a look.
I'll touch >> and council me I have some pictures too that the mayor had forwarded me from that visit so I can send them to you as well if you want to see some of it. >> I just want to make a note like I I love as many levers as we can to promote safety riding bikes ebikes all of that
have been a critical issue right so I I I love the proactivity of this and I thank both of you for doing it. >> Um next up public comment on agenda items only. Please observe three minute time limit. Please state and identify yourself by clearly stating your name
and address for the record. Anyone with a public comment on agenda items only. Oh, sorry. Carolyn. >> Hi, Carolyn Ferguson Court. I'm the chair of the natural area committee. Um, thank you for bringing up the issue about the damage in the Harding Bird
Sanctuary and the natural area. Um it really is a very significant issue in the natural area. U people are digging holes, building ramps, building bridges, taking away bridges. Um they're really causing destruction. And like one of the slogans we have in the natural areas,
the trees for us, the rest for nature. Like we want people to stay on the trails because foot traffic off the trails is really damaging the natural processes that are supposed to occur there. Um I did encounter two young boys this weekend. I talked to them. They
were very nice. They had a ebike. Um at the end I invited them to volunteer weekend this weekend and then they came and found me and asked how to sign up. So I found the two nicest boys in town. Um I think one observation is that we
never saw this before ebikes started. So I do feel like this thing with the ramps and stuff is really kind of brought on by the ebikes. Um, and then Paul raised a good question about bikes and the Harding Bird Sanctuary. Could you walk a bike through
there? Um, so I I think that's a good thing to think about. Um, the ebikes definitely damage the trails and we know they're not allowed to begin with. Probably the bikes not as much and certainly walking a bike, I don't think you would damage the trails. Um, but I
just wanted to share some information and like I said, from what we've seen, this problem has just really occurred in the last two years. So, we think it's more related to the ebikes than regular bikes. >> Sure. >> Thanks. >> Thank you. Uh, public comment agenda in
total. >> Steve Battton. Um, I just wanted to add a little bit to this since I'm on both the Nashville area and the Ardan bird sanctuary committee and I've been in both of the areas a lot recently doing some plantings and I have encountered um young people riding their regular bikes
through there on their way cutting through and they didn't seem to be doing anything. So, I don't know. I mean, I I'm trying to put on my young person hat here >> and thinking how much fun it is to be out in the woods and riding your bike and like feeling adventurous and all
this. And I'm trying to figure out a way to help them have a saber. And I keep going back to the brush crime site. I'm like, we could somehow give them a piece of that where they could do they could build things. They could do something. They'd be outside. I I I just I don't
know. It just seems like we should maybe think hard about some way to help these kids have outdoor fun. Understand ebikes is is dangerous and a problem and they are causing lots of destruction. But I mean I almost wonder if this might be an
argument for the open space tax. So we had some money to work with and maybe build some things for them and you know and and explore options. >> I have no idea how you connected those two things but I have to because I mean I just was reading the
paper and those silver up theirs and I'm like okay wow and so they have all this money to spend on stewardship and you know thinking about the care of their natural areas. I don't know it seems to make sense to me but we still have that area off a third street trail. I mean there's just like possibilities. So
anyway, I just think we should think about these kids too and not just be totally grumpy old, you know, people. I don't know. I don't know what >> I I hear you. It's actually a um challenging situation because there's a
huge part of me. Um and I think I've expressed that in some emails to folks as they've complained that I'd much rather them be outside riding their bikes than playing video games at home. Not that video games are bad, but not always. I don't want them playing video games or doing things that are worse
than that, obviously. So, there is an inherent benefit to kids being kids. The other side of that though is also my role as mayor and looking out for the burough fairy and without getting into too much detail, seeing some of the videos I've seen this week and the
danger that it presents to our community, I have to look out for for the municipality at a certain point. So, I I totally understand what you're saying and I understand why you're saying it. At the end of the day, I see an inherent safety risk. They're
vandalizing property. It's hard for us to, you know, just say, "Well, you know, there's just one dead apple when you go back there and you find four shovels and there's an entire BMX." >> No, I'm not I'm not um I've seen what they've done. I've had to work with the whole they've dug and everything else. So, I I get that and he likes our
problem, but I just >> wanted to try to explore some And I also appreciate you pointing out that little silver raised their open space tax after they initially passed it. They raised it even higher after that. >> You cannot have enough money to take care of the natural space. That is the
moral of the story. >> I agree. >> Thank you. Anyone else? Allison. >> Um, no. >> All right. We're going to move along to approval of minutes. October 27, 2025 regular meeting. Do I have a motion to
approve as presented? >> Second. >> Alison, may I please have a roll call? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Permanent. >> Yes. Thank you. Anyone here have any old
business? >> No. We'll move to new business then. Introduction of ordinances 2025-9 reintroduction of amended stormwater management ordinance. Right. Anyone have anything on this before I ask for a motion? just um it's identical to what
we introduced at the previous meeting. This is Mammoth County did a review, right, and provided updates to ensure that there was alignment. >> I have a couple things just because there are a couple changes in here. Um but one thing overall, obviously I
support this and I'm excited about it. Um but I do want to just be conscious of any kind of undue burden to applicants and I talked to Chris about this. I know Rich know this. just to be aware of like how much extra time it's taking people to do these applications and then also
how much they'll end up paying in professionals that they may not have had to do before um or may not have had to hire before. So I absolutely support this but I want to be conscious of this. Have you I know that there was some discussion. So just from your point of view, how much extra time you think it'll take and how much in professional
fees do you think? >> So that as I had mentioned at some prior meetings, we're working with homeowners and applicants already on trying to get some type of storm water management or have them manage some of that storm water even though it's not an ordinance
depending on the project or type of work they're doing. Obviously, this will solidify through an ordinance and be specific to certain thresholds and type one. >> Um, having said that, the way the land use office works is when people submit
these different uh whether it's a street opening permit or any other outside agency approval or a zoning permit, things kind of run concurrently. So, we feel that it's going to it's going to be the same. We're going to be
dealing with the same point of contact. They're going to come and submit a whole package to us. The only difference is instead of it going directly right onto the zoning table uh you know uh desk, some of it will come over to my desk and then we all work together anyway in the
room and we'll work through it. >> And that's how we envision it. Um statutoily we have 10 business days to turn around or 10 days to turn around zoning permit obviously um much quicker than that. Um
and the thing is when you have these types of projects and I've mentioned this before the applicant is really only as good as their professional. So if you have a good architect or a good engineer, good surveyor, they've got everything they need, full package gets
submitted, it'll go right through the process quickly. Where people get hung up is they forgot to submit certain things or they left certain things off a drawing or things are incomplete or they didn't pay all the fees or whatever. Um,
that's where things get hung up. The other answer to your question is and I had also mentioned there is no one-sizefits-all. >> We're already getting a lot of this for the new construction for the major renovations some of these larger projects obviously with zoning and
planning board types of projects where we're capturing the other types of work is through the additional and and that's the key the additional imperous coverage. >> Yeah. 400 square feet. Most of the towns that have gone this
route have adopted 250 square feet. So, we felt we struck a balance. Okay, this kind of puts us into this threshold. And as I mentioned, if you're doing a large heartscape in your backyard, we just
need you to do something. It could be a vegetative strip >> to capture some of that rum and soak it back into the ground. It's not all dry wells. It's not all >> bring a huge machine in, >> dig a pit and fill it with some
infrastructure. It's just it could be a rain garden and trees >> plantings. It could be essential shade of strips obviously best management practice but it's a low impact lowcale type of improvement that honestly we're just
looking to prevent runoff to the neighboring properties and also runoff to our streets into our street which creates additional flow into our systems. >> So every project's different. it depending what zone you're in if you're smaller lot versus larger lots but we
work with them we give them you know ideas we work with the same professionals it's a very similar group of professionals that submit >> and the intent right please correct me
the intent was balance cost and time considerations >> yes >> with an understanding that given how storm war does pose an issue now given the increase in volumes and everything that all residents have to play a part, right? So that was in addition to kind
of closing the loophole from minor development. That was the intention. Hey, how do we balance the least amount of impact but we make sure that everybody takes a little bit of onus, >> right? So that we can help combat the issue that exists really. >> And you know, you want to be on the forefront. We know that
>> NJ will at some point bring these in. You know, that's why these different groups and other municipalities like ours are already starting to implement some of this. And like I mentioned, we're already working with with folks out there on a lot of these projects. It's just trying to
>> do a little more to make it overall. So again, thank you. I have a couple other random things. So it says we're adopting on November 10th. >> We're not chang. And then um I had a couple questions. why these were
added, but now I know it was the >> county, >> which is awesome. I I'm so happy I looked at it. Um there were a couple notes in here. I'm assuming they're coming out, but there was one that said over her head. Did you see that one? >> Yeah. >> Was that clarified?
>> It had to do with the um stone the 40%. >> So yeah, >> just as long as that was >> it's a it's a it's a engineering way of calculating based on volume of that. Does that make sense to you? >> Yeah.
>> Oh, just one last. So, additional this is the recharge filtration or filtration system to include simple drywall seepage pits or recharge trenches shall meet the following criteria. So it says additional recharge systems
or capacity may be required by the burough engineer the planning board or zoning board. So as to comply with the intent of this ordinance based on the nature and extent of the proposal drain proposed drainage from renovations whatever are you saying we have to come back like
>> no it gives us flexibility so if what they're proposing if we feel it's not enough we could tell them hey we think you need a dry well okay take this back portion of the house or something that >> and there's nothing in this that has
anything that's currently done but if they were to make any changes then they'd have to go according to this, right? So nothing like no one has to back >> grandfather grandfather did >> but if they made any changes then they would have trigger >> technically well if we're going to be
detailed once it's adopted >> then it had then it's codified right Andrew >> and then from the codification then if somebody did something that met the criteria then it >> awesome thank you motion approve make a motion introduce 2025-9
Second. >> Alison, may I please have a roll call? >> Council, >> yes. >> Howie, yes. >> Scott, >> yes. >> Permanent. >> Yes. >> Thank you. 2025-20 bond ordinance improvements to Cambridge Avenue.
>> Who wants to take this one? >> Uh Rich Rich can talk about that one because he's doing that project. So, um, we got a DOT grant, local aid, municipal aid for Cambridge Avenue, and that's my next project that we're going to be designing. I had an engineers estimate
as part of that grant. The amount, the grant, I believe, is in the bond. It's 200. Um, so I sent a recommendation to our administrator that in order for us to move forward with this project, we
need this funding >> and which is what we would do for any project of this um this sort >> question. So it's a difference between 800 and 271 correct on board. >> Correct.
>> Want to make a motion? I'll make a motion to approve. >> Secondly, Alison, may I please have a roll call? >> Spina, >> yes. >> Yes. H, >> yes. Albera, >> Olson, >> yes. Thank you. 2025-21
supplement burrow code chapter 2-26.5 police personnel to include a police chap. >> So, the um chief had reached out to the mayor. Um, a lot of police departments are having police chaplain. It's um again it's a it's been a recommendation
from best practices for law enforcement. Uh somebody you know who's a member of the clergy who can come out and um again counsel somebody that they're having a bad time. Um maybe counsel um an officer sees a traumatic incident. It's just another resource available. Also could counsel the community if there would
happen to be uh you know some mass incident that happened here in town. There was somebody who'd be available. Um so the police had reached out to the mayor requesting if we could have a chaplain. We do not currently have a chaplain ordinance. Um there are other municipalities do have chaplain. Um Rep Bank has multiple chaplain from their
community. Middletown has multiple chaplain in their community. Um so in order for us to appoint somebody as a chaplain, we would have to do an ordinance. Now again, just little background so you know about cost. Chaplain work voluntarily. So it's not somebody, you know, they come out, they're going to bill us for services or
pass the plate around, you know, after uh you know, meeting with people. Um this is strictly on a voluntary basis. again just to have an extra resource if needed, you know, during a traumatic incident. >> Was also told they're non-denomination. >> Right. >> Yes. >> Yes.
>> I have I have a couple of Is there a job description for this position? >> There there currently is not. No. Um again, we don't we don't even have an ordinance. Um but we could have the chief create one if the council was so inclined to create a ordinance position
for check. So it would seem to me that that a chaplain would be very important in a community during a time of crisis. >> Correct. >> So is there I would like to see whoever it is who's ever selected be a member of
our community that's that's familiar with the residents of Fair Haven and you know not hire somebody from Middletown or that. I mean, I I' I'd like to see a job description for this, even if it's voluntary. I agree. >> And again, that's something again, even
if for the ordinance, I mean, if that was a change that, you know, the council is looking to do, again, some towns like in Breb Bank, I think they pick their chaplain from within their community. Middletown does. I don't know if it's universal to every other town, but, you know, most towns have their several places of worship. Um, some have
multiple chaplain. So, multiple, you know, denominations are um in the middle town, I think has eight and that's several themselves. So, um, you know, you could put that in there. They would have to leave that be a member of clergy from town. That could be something that could put in the ordinance, you know, which would narrow down where they came from and then we could put together job
description of what they would do. >> Does that be legally in the job description say they have to be prepared? >> I know we could select someone for their legally say >> does that >> well well tech but think but if you think about it though technically to be on council you have to leave fair haven.
So you're appointing a person in a volunteer position you know. So technically, yeah, you could, you know, we could appoint somebody to, you know, the Shade Tree Commission if they lived in Little Silver. So, >> but we want the best individual for the
job. Like, I'm all for within, but like >> I think we should start within like I would love to at least have our faith community involved maybe in the process or start with them and then if that doesn't But I don't know that that necessarily needs to be spelled out in the ordinance.
>> Correct. But I also just one thing can we make this a dual like multiple chaplain like not just say one chaplain we are opening up position >> I made a forum >> you did okay >> in my from my conversation with the chief I don't want to speak for him you know obviously we'll have the
opportunity in the coming week to do that I think I think I recalled him saying that um the chapel might be a former police officer >> yeah but not from our town is a person >> not from the town because if I think it helps with if a policeman needs to have
a conversation with someone that they're having it with someone that's gone through certain things that they've gone through. >> Yeah. So, the person the chief um is looking at who had approached him is a retired police lieutenant from Kingsburg, currently works as a um Mammoth University police officer and I
guess um has some type of ordination and has been reaching out to chiefs in the area to be a chaplain for their police department. on the u the job description which I think is a great idea but we do have qualifications and duties and the qualification says they shall be
certified shall be a certified police chaplain credentialed in accordance with New Jersey police chaplain regulations like that's pretty close um maybe sufficient >> well I would like to see him our first
choice be somebody who's member of our community >> I like that >> and do they come to how does how do they get picked though? So would it just be the chief who picks it or does it come to personnel like what is that? >> Well, so they have so the chief can make
their his recommendation of who he would want but uh but ultimately the governing body would have to um make have to make the appointment vote on it. It says appointment the chief the chief of police shall identify the person and I put plural that he she believes meet the
qualifications of NJSA and the character standards rules or regulations of thorough fair and police department. The chief shall make recommendation to the mayor regarding the number of police chaplain to be appointed whom he recommends be appointed for the following year. The
mayor shall appoint a police chaplain in accordance with this ordinance and with the advice of the Senate B council. >> I think the ordinance is signed. >> Brian, fully supportive. Quick question. I know it's not like a burough employee, but there cap costs like insurance,
benefits, anything that's given to >> So is that all in cap? >> I would think it's in cap. >> Well, they would Well, they wouldn't um we wouldn't do any of that for them. So, so they they they >> I mean they're they're coming in and acting
we're not buying a uniform. Um you know, we're not they're just >> if they're counseling, right? I mean, God forbid something happens, right? There's a liability. There got to be insurance associated with it. >> Well, because like we don't have insurance for our committees and commissions, our volunteers and
committees and commissions. I know it's they're not counseling, but it is sort of dissimilar. The chief could also appoint somebody within the police department who may be an ordained minister. >> Captain Chapel or I mean it's >> it would be just good to know. I'm fully
supported this. I think it needs to happen. It probably should have happened a long time ago. I'm thinking of co and how beneficial this would have been during co right but there are considerations right there are liability considerations. If there is a police officer struggling and they confide in the chaplain and I just think we need to
educate ourselves a little bit more on it. I'm fully supportive. I think we introduced it. >> So to answer to answer your question, any cost associated with that chaplain. So let's say let's say you bought him a golf shirt, you know, that said chaplain on it, that would be an incap expense. So there's nothing outside of cap, this is not a shared service with a group. This is a private individual who we're
appointing. So any if we bought him, you know, a notebook and a pen, that'd be in cap. So those would all be in cap expenses. >> Yeah, I'm talking more insurance and and the Fair Haven Fire Department has done this. I'm sure we can make a quick phone call to say, hey, you know, what are the considerations? Well, they would be different because they're not a burrow
entity. They're a private corporation. So, what we probably have to do is find out, you know, >> research. >> We don't have those talk to labor council. >> Y. >> Okay. We can contact another police department that does this lessons learners that they have. Make sure that we're
>> I can reach out to see what he says. >> Just sign home branch. Well, I'm saying but they they'll know like do they have insurance? Do they need insurance? I just think >> you do you still want to introduce 100%. I think this needs to happen.
>> So motion introduced. >> Alison, may I please have a roll call? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> I'm permanent. >> Also, >> yes. Thank you. Uh, next up, consent
agenda resolutions 2025-263 through 2025-270. Before I ask for a motion, does anyone want to separate anything? Does anyone have any comments on anything? Does anyone want to make a motion to
approve? Motion >> second. >> Alison, may I please have a roll call? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. Olson. >> Yes. >> And you're all good for this special meeting. I just have to make sure we
have a quorum for the chief. >> What time is it? 16 >> hour before our normal >> Allison. >> Yes. >> I will probably have to zoom in because I'm going away. That's week of Thanksgiving. >> It's executive sessions. sort of can't.
>> Well, we have like >> open it and then you >> will we have like all the materials beforehand like you know resumes all that stuff. >> Yeah, I'll have all that information. Um you can't believe you did interviews the first round of interviews today with candidates.
>> Well, so tomorrow we're continuing it. >> So once you have selected your finalist um you were the chief will forward that to us three of you. >> Yep. So we'll have all that ahead of time. Awesome. Thank you.
>> Um, okay. Department reports October 2025 municipal clerk door license municipal court. Michael, I always know you like to say a motion with a thank you. >> Oh, yes. Motion with thank you here. Here. >> Second. >> Second. >> Uh, Councilman Hoey. Second and
>> all in favor? >> Anyone opposed? >> All right. Uh, next up is good of the burrow. Please stand identify yourself by clearly stating your name matters for the record. I actually have a few things first. Um we have something about amending the commercial filming or >> Yeah.
>> Um someone someone going to talk to that Alison? >> Yeah, we'll both talk to it. So um we've recently had an uptick of um you know people from uh film groups coming in looking for um licenses. Um it's Allison
and I had a meeting the other day. It's been roughly 10 years since the last time we've updated it and there's probably some updates regarding fees so we are on the same par as our surrounding municipalities. Um so um we would like to make requests to update the fees and have that introduced next
meeting with >> and we have sample ordinances from um like communities uh that we can uh compare and update bring it back to the council next meeting. >> Okay. Um, something I wanted to bring up to you guys that I thought was for the
good of the burough, just um, reflecting on uh, this year, the election. Um, congratulations to all the candidates for for running great campaigns. Really appreciate everyone putting themselves out there. Look forward to
congratulating winners the coming days. Um but reflecting on some of the things that went on um you know specifically at public events where we would receive um
complaints about political signage. Um, I was hoping that maybe we could all agree to maybe put something together to introduce that would ban political signage at public events, even if
there's a permit for those events. And I'll just give an example where this is coming from. Um, just can just keep it broad as far as signage and stuff like that. Yeah, >> because that'll be >> there's a matter on executive
>> but as far as you know speaking about political signage and you can speak but as far as putting it together ordinances or anything like that we can't just >> I want to make sure I'm clear on what you're saying. But not speaking about any laws related to it as far as what
your feelings are as to >> so my my feelings are my feelings are that in the future or maybe not in the future but these are just my feelings at even at public events that have permits where people have permits to hold the event. I don't think we should, in the
spirit of our community and bringing everyone together, we should have political signage of any kind. Whether it's a cart that's sponsored by a political group, whether it's someone walking around with a political sign on their stroller,
I think it would be consistent with with our community if we would, you know, not being able to hand out brochures at these events. I think it would be um I think it would be consistent with the spirit of our community if
we would discuss those a little bit further. Is that a good way to say what I was saying? >> Yes. Okay. >> Keep up in the past, right? We had spokes from who were campaigning during wreck football and or rec soccer or whatever it was, right? >> Yeah. So, so yeah. So, that was somewhat
of I don't really mean the word bad actor, but you know what I mean when I say that. Um, and I I think that was just someone acting on their own, sort of walking around. >> Um, I think I'm talking more a little bit more organized. >> Okay.
>> Um, >> but you know, because you could you're never going to be able to control everyone and what they do and all that, but I think if we put a standard I think if we discuss a standard and we all agree to it, then maybe it'll be a good thing for the team. That's
>> Yeah. I do think handing out split versus like having a sign on a stroller or like a button or a shirt like it's gonna get a little bit just it's not as easy as like not having a sign. Handing out lit is one thing. >> I I think I think I'm talking about lit
and and signs in general like there um I realize that there's going to be people that are going to walk through a and they might have a shirt on or something like that. there's there's obviously a differential and maybe that's where we have to figure out um what what seems
right and maybe what's a little bit over but um that's just my thought. I think that it would be for the good of the bureau which is the exact part of this agenda I put this on. Um I'll end with something a little bit um
more positive. Tomorrow is Veterans Day. Um, I just want to point out to everyone that uh in in town there's an unbelievable um project that's put together every year. Um, and they put signs on the lawns of all of the
veterans and the veterans families. And tomorrow is the only day of the year that we ask to honk. you know, we don't we don't want uh people honking when they don't have to around town, but tomorrow we would like everyone to to show their appreciation for for all the veterans and their families. And um I
hope to see everyone tomorrow at the Veterans Day ceremony um at Memorial Park as well. >> Can I add to that? >> Sure. >> Um one of our residents, Carissa Gabaro, is the the person who has spearheaded this. She started this I think three
years ago and uh she has quite a committee now especially high school kids that volunteer to distribute the signs. She puts a goodie bag together for each of the veterans. But to me, the best part of the goodie bags are the students at Sickle School. And each
student writes one or two notes to a serviceman and it goes in the bag and they draw pictures and they thank the service person for their for their contributions and for their service and really is beautiful what they've done. And now now she's got Rumson to be a
part of it too. So Rumson's doing doing their version. So it's really spot on. It's a very wonderful thing she's doing for our veterans. >> The mayor just won't go to the burough. Um, and I love the idea of just it's the
signs and standardizing. It's great. Um, I put together uh in in coordination with Rich and DJ and Chris and Josh a detailed summary of bysentennon of all. Um, it was sent to HBC, but I we made sure it was sent out to the governing body just so that all the information,
all the facts dating all the way back to 2010, we're in one consolidated place. So, if you have any questions on it, there's like 17 attachments to it given all the artifacts. So, >> fashion power. >> Uh, it's in your inbox. I guess you
didn't had a readers receipt, too. No. Um, but take a look at it. It's just meant to all the information one page, you know. Yeah, exactly. you know, a lot of time has passed and want to make sure decisions are made with all the accurate information. >> I have a public service announcement uh for the planning board and the zoning
board. There are scammers uh that are getting a hold of the uh board's agendas and sending emails to applicants requesting them to wire funds to make sure that their application is heard. The bureau does not accept wired funds.
We do checks. if you have a question for all the burrow um your friends and neighbors Chris anything. >> No. So um we're gonna actually put a disclaimer out um >> so that from us so anybody's aware anybody does application obviously the
burn does not do electronic payments or wire transfers and that'll be at every application. However, you know we'll make announcements at the uh you know councilman also is going to make announcements at the zoning board and the planning board so they're aware. Um, but again in this day and age, you know, everybody's looking for an opportunity
to, you know, take advantage of somebody and and somebody makes a legit email, you know, where they put a copy of the burrow seal that looks like a valid email, you know, somebody might think, you know, I got to get my storm water management plan in. So, uh, you know, if I send the wire transfer, you know, Mitch will do the application quicker,
but it's not the way it is. >> What do we what happens if a resident gets that email? What should they do? >> Unfortunately, we have not had any incidents here. Um this came in fortunately. I mean that could change by tomorrow. Um however our um our land use
attorney Doug Hobatz had um sent that to us this morning let us know there are municipalities that are dealing with that and um so we wanted to get ahead of that. So I had a meeting with um Sheila Olsson today. Brian and I had some correspondence and went back and forth. Um we talked with Craig Ralph from the U
planning board and Todd Leer from the zoning board. So everybody's on board with it. If for some reason somebody does become a victim of that, uh the best thing they can do is um contact the police department immediately, get a report done and uh they continue an investigation because that is a criminal matter at that point.
>> And the best education is don't reply, don't engage. If you have any questions, pick up the phone and call the bar. Correct. >> That's what great. >> Yeah. But if anybody has become a victim of that already and they haven't reported it, you know, again, contact the Fair Police Department tomorrow, get
a report done and um we'll get the investigations. >> Allison, is there something we can send out on a blast to the residents to let them know about it? >> Yep. We can get a blast out tomorrow >> and just include the education piece too. >> Only they did did it for good. They
spent their time. Um I do have a clarification on the chaplain. So this is from Long Branch but they don't have insurance but they do have mandatory training be a chaplet. So who provides training? I I don't I guess it's I don't know
>> it's probably the provision from >> Yeah, it said they had to have the certification or something. So there must be a state training I'm guessing. I don't but they do get trained. >> I believe there is. Yes. I I would say just for the matter of record um before anybody was to be appointed they would have to provide that certificate to the
burrow. Yeah. To make sure they're in compliance with the training and the training is up to date. I'm sure it probably has it's renewable. So, >> and it has to be >> it has to go through the police department because they are given badges >> um with their identification. So, you know, they would be officially police
personnel. >> Good. Good. >> Anyone go to the burrow? Carolyn Ferguson, San Antonio Court. I'm once again here as the chair of the natural area committee. It is volunteer weekend in the natural area this weekend. Saturday and Sunday 10 to 1. Uh
both days meet at the community garden entrance. As usual, we'll be pulling vines, uh pulling wood out of the woods. Um you guys all know the drill, but if you could tell your family and friends, we'd appreciate your help to make it a success.
>> Thank you, Carolyn. Thanks, buddy. Go to the burrow. Yes. S. >> Hi, Susan O'Brien. 875 River Road. The next time we have a storm and they're going to be picking up branches, etc.
Could you send out like an email because nothing went out this time? >> I don't think we did a You mean a special pickup? We didn't do a special pickup this time. Yeah, >> I think it was part of So, it was part of our normal Russian leaf schedule. Um, it's is it possible that if there was a
large limb on the side of the street and the DPW saw it, they grabbed it? Um, you know, I don't >> No, a actually in the um uh email that came out down towards the bottom, it just said um leaf pickup will
resume once DBW has finished picking up the storm debris. So I said, "Oh, so I'm out there at night in the dark pulling my four cans of brush out and they picked them up." >> Yeah. >> So they were going around picking it up.
>> So So again, I I I defer to Richard Nick. I'm not aware of a special pickup. Picking up storm debris might mean on burough property. I don't know what the You know, we we >> was t because I had seen um some other people on up the other end of River
Road. They had their cans out with their branches in and I thought, "Oh, maybe they just think it's pickup." Until I read that in the uh in our email notification. So, there was a little oblique reference to it. So, I hold my
stuff out because I had a lot. >> Again, I can't speak to the reference. >> Yeah, we we did not really get too many phone calls about generally after most storms, we get a lot of phone calls because there's a lot of debris. Uh, this storm did not put as much debris out as expected. A lot of water
>> kept in my yard. >> You might have you might have been the outlier in the whole situation, but we did pick up we did pick up your debris, correct? >> Oh, yeah. Oh, that Yeah, >> I know. I did have a conversation with um Nick Porchinsky after the storm and u he said this DPW was going to go out and
um and check the streets to make sure, you know, there wasn't, but there really wasn't a lot. So, there was really no need. >> That's that's why I answer you the way I did this because I was on email. There was one email that came in. We have to pull for it and it was deemed that it wasn't necessary. >> Oh. So, all I have to do is ask for it.
>> If it again, if there's a high magnitude, you know, but it's a lot of clean up needed, we would put it out. Again, we didn't there really wasn't a lot. Again, I apologize for your but we did pick yours up. Um, but you know, if there wasn't a lot, so there was no need to put it out. >> It also coincided with all pickup.
>> Correct. But they were making husband. So >> Oh, >> so they just >> So it was okay. >> Sort of the tail end of >> exactly >> and ours are good. Like if they're driving around and they see something
>> that to the benefit from a safety standpoint, they can grab they grab it. And you know, is it 100% consistent? Maybe not. But like it's for the greater good. Yeah, >> I was just going to try to figure out what I was going to do for the winter because I always get stuff down and I
already had my four cans full. So, I took full advantage of that little >> Now they're now they're empty. Now they're empty. >> Well, not quite. >> Okay, thanks. >> Thank you, Josh. On that note, quick shout out to uh Jim O'Brien. He uh he stayed super late during that storm and
was in uh inches of water cleaning the storm things. I saw phenomen. >> Okay. Um, we are going to move to executive session for the first time in a long time. Uh, the time is 8:40 p.m. Do I have a motion? >> Second.
>> All in favor? >> Anyone opposed? We're not hearing you say good night or we go home. It's like it was like 10 years ago like it's also viral dance thing that went around. >> Right. >> Hi.
>> Hi. Mayor. >> Hello. >> We've completed executive session and now we're going to move to adjourn. Time is 9:54 p.m. Do I have a motion? >> Motion. Second. >> All in favor? >> I. >> Anyone opposed?
>> Second. Night Air.