thank you let's call this meeting to order at 7:02 pm. we're going to start with salute to the play I pledge aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to for which it stands one nation under God
indivisible liy and for all please join me in a moment of Silent reflection thank youon I am missing a sunshine La I know I should not be but I am
you want me read it thank you in accordance with the provisions of the open public meetings ACT public meetings may be held in person or by means of communication equipment to include streaming services and other online meeting platforms this meeting is being held in person through
the zoom meeting platform being broadcast from bur Hall 748 River Road faan New Jersey public participation for this regular council meeting of February 12 2025 is available by call and phone number or through Web Conference Zoom members MERS of the public will be on mute until it time for questions or
comments which will be announced at that time the public has the opportunity to question or comment by phone or through Zoom by the raise hand button and will be called on at the appropriate time notice of this meeting was included in a schedule of meetings which was adopted by resolution number 2012-13 and sent to the Asbury Park
Press in the Two River times on January 7th 2025 post on the burough website the bulletin board of Municipal building and has remained continuously posted as required under the statute with adequate notice having been given the B clerk is directed to include the statement in the minutes of this meeting Alison may I
please have a roll call Council memb PA yes yesc is here by Zoom counc present thank you uh we are going to start we have a remote presentation on our health insurance fund
um it is being provided by vivana lamb and Susan Bazar I hope I pronounced those right thank you for joining us and the floor is yours thank you for taking the time tonight to chat with me and I do apologize because I'm actually at a Gala
Dana the venician um it was committed to and I couldn't get out of it uh because I sit as the board of director so I wanted to make sure that I I made this presentation so I apologize about the song because I can't help it um so I'm hoping everyone can hear me if you can you can just say
yes can you hear me okay good I'm GNA share my screen with you uh hold on in I'm assuming you guys can see my screen yes yeah okay good so one of the
things that Chris uh York I was speaking to him about is councilman faty brought it to my attention that the neighboring towns which are small first of all I I've been in public sector for many years I've actually sat on your side as a chief of staff and um director for the
city of Pake many years ago so I know what it's like to be on your end as well as my own end uh when it comes to dealing with uh different varying budgets and how to put things together while at the same time keeping your unions and employees happy so I look at
it from very different perspectives over the last six to eight months um actually for about 12 to 15 years Blue Cross has been giving push back to have a competing hiff and a health insurance fund where a group of entities come
together and pretty much are able to assume larger buying power we were finally able to do this with the approval of the Department of banking and insurance this happened in early of um uh this year where we finally got the approvals and we had four municipalities
that got dumped into that uh Chris faty the councilman that's in Little Silver has seen the benefits of doing that so we came together with blue CR right now there is about um eight regional health insurance funds throughout the state of New Jersey all focused on public
entities many of you know them as Perma some of them um uh are known under the UHC conglomerate or the Amer Health conglomerate we're going to be the ninth public entity fund which also competes against the state so you have an inner
core where each one of these entities are competing against each other for larger buying power okay um most public entities as as it's brought out on the screen here the typical lives or or group size that we
like to look at when you're starting up a health insurance fund is anywhere from two to A Thousand Lives that's where we like to see things mature and we like to make it competitive against the state health benefits plan and as you know the state health benefits plan uh increased
over 177% hence why we conducted this exercise with Chris York I'm going to switch screens real quick and I'm gonna actually come back to this just so I can show you my numbers as to you know what we have so when we did your
assessments um we ran it against your actives and this is only for medical and prescription because of how small you are you have 65 total members Al together um 22 of them consist of your active personnel and the rest are your
retired Personnel so we split this up into two moving Parts um while you're under the Insurance Fund no matter which one whether it's Perma whether it's the state whether it's um Blue Cross Blue Shield or what we were call the aquasure
hiff they're split into the active groups versus the retiree groups and the reason that we do that is because your members that are over 65 years of age that are retired they're subsidized by Medicare A lot of them once they retire
and they're no longer working will have what we call a Medicare Advantage plan um as many of your members are enrolled in that already which helps subsidize or offset those costs so when we we really can't lump the two groups together sometimes our old older
population and tend to run make our claims run higher so that's why we segregate them so when we did a close look at your particular group because you're again because the the aquasure hip is so new we came in with a
13.8% which you will not feel it as a self-insured group but a fully insured platform as well when you compare it to the state as we stand as of today it's based at it's almost a 4% differential or post about 3 and a half%
differential if not a little bit more and the reason that we came in just a little bit uh under the state is because we want to preserve the fund coming in so the way that a uh a fund is underwritten is we look at the group individually first before you start
getting rated as a whole so in this group uh what makes up well actually let me just back up for a second so right now you guys are going to be if you do decide to join it's 13.8 Under The Horizon which you're in right now your benefits are going to be
identical you're just shifting your back end everything that you've had with the state for your medical and prescription is what you will have under this aquasure hiff uh that your sister city
uh little silver is experiencing right now they will be identical because again remember that Blue Cross Shield is a competing member with the state on its own when it came to your retirees you're coming in at a
14.3% versus a 17.8% now when we quoted this it the effective date was for April 1st 2025 when you're going into a health insurance fund or you're leaving the state you need to give the state 60 days
notice um I spoke to the actual Aries at acashore Blue Cross Blue Shield and they were able to allow us if you do decide to change and take advantage of these rates going in um it you can hold they will hold the rates for you for a June
1st okay second just want to go back really quick we have questions yet or wait till the end um no you can we can have banter in between go ahead actually makes it
easier wa till end that's all right yeah that's fine yeah wait till the end I'm almost done I promise you I'm almost done I didn't because I know you guys us with cancel meetings they can go you know very long um a hip is set up you'll see it has the structure of a fund commissioner um each member has to
appoint somebody within your own organization so if you're used to a gif a joint Insurance Fund um that you're in for your property Casualty Insurance your liabilities things like that um you would typically be used to this type of set where there's a fund attorney a fund
Treasurer um and a liaison between the go between the actual fund itself um fund professionals I actually list them out here because I wanted you to see for full transparency who's what and what you're getting if you do decide
to move um again these are what we call the groundbreakers or the grandfathered or the building pillars so we had to assign different entities and different Personnel to each one of these categories that's required under the
department of banking and insurance um currently the participants that started the hiff that are the founding members are the city of Union City the city of planfield the bur of little silver and the bur of little um B of mwan and you can see where their
assessments fell coming in each one of them were well below and actually all of these were in the state and they're all maturing and coming in together they started each as of one one
okay hi operations I'm just I just wanted you to see what that looks like each entity has a particip that's participating sorry if that's participating in um the fund has a commissioner and an alternate commissioner that has to report to each
monthly meeting you guys help to um vote on different things that are going on within the organization so you have a greater say that's why a lot of people prefer joining a health insurance fund rather than staying in organizations as a post
State um you will be given equal to or better coverage uh when the group expires you'll have uh when you expire as of 1 2026 you will have communal rates so if everybody got a 2% across the board you will get a 2% instead of
it being rated A lot of times we find that are smaller groups carry um or larger groups carry or smaller groups because sometimes believe it or not the city of Union City is running out of 86% loss ratios that
means if you guys are running at when I looked at your loss ratios you were running about 99 tittering over about 100% loss ratios so if we factor that in our larger groups will be subsidizing some of your claims and we kind of like
that because it just helps to keep things an evil e even toned as well evil so on that note I kept it very short very simple give me your questions so I can help you understand and answer
them so thank you for that are are you a for-profit or not for-profit insurance company all health insurance funds are for-profit always and who's your regulator Department of banking Insurance New Jersey not not a Wisconsin
regulator no well that's a reason question um and do you do you use reinsurance we have to all health insurance funds has to have including the state stop loss always who your
reinsurers are um for this one it is Symetra Metra okay do you have a do you have a rating Bond r rating with symmetra it's a I believe it's an A+ a plus how about you do you
have a bond rating for Horizon yes Horizon it's always been an A+ um and so the source of your capital is is equity uh what's the what's the source
of capital that backs the insurance policy it's your premium well there has to be there has to be some some extra Capital behind the premiums if your stop if your loss ratios are over 100% there has to be a capital well to tap
into so that is protected by Horizon who was backing this in the very beginning so the pool of investors yes it's being actually done by Horizon itself Horizon's Equity okay and how many um plan participants
are in this plan plan participants all together yeah in the plan that we would join um it is counting it's brand new it's only four specific groups right now hold on a
second so total are you looking for total life count yes so we're talking about 8 n can you see my screen it's about less than 1,200 and we have another four group
coming in 1980 not 1980 yeah I mean just added all four up what 18,000 I'm sorry I'm looking at one tonight it's about under 2,000 okay um and then you made a
comment something we move it to the back end so that what does that mean so typically so right now you guys are funded by the state it's all so all your insurance is through Horizon all already the only difference between the
two conglomerates is that you have optim RX as the prescription PBM for the state and in Horizon they're going to be using their own PBM which is Prime Therapeutics those are the only two differentiators right
here thank you um so so I think Brian understands this more than I do I guess my biggest question is if Union I think Union was the biggest um un City Union City was the biggest contributor the fund so if they were to get up let's say we joined this fund and then they were
to get up and leave next year um what does that do to you know you you showed that we went you know from 177% to 133% is that going to so all three all three of those all four of those entities
Union City city of planfield city of planfield is the largest one at 23 million um on their assessment um then Union City and then um Matan and then little silver little silver is the smallest assessment of the the four so
they have to there is a requirement that you have to be in there for three years you cannot leave before the three years so but then again they're in before us so let's say I don't know when they came in so let's say they leave before us and then we have two extra
years to go or we have another year to go we can't get out what does that do from a pricing standpoint being that it's such a small entity um do the prices go through the roof because of that like what's the um the end result
for our burrow in a situation like that so it be very similar to the state so I'm going to compare it to that because that's what everybody's familiar with so right now you have a lot of healthy groups leading being the state so that pool it's hence why you see saw a double
digit close to about a 20% increase and why the state had to bond $50 million in in December to be able to encumber those funds that they short fell for the budget to be able to pay
claims that $50 million that with all those people pulling out gets shifted onto the current members including yourselves that's in the state so no matter if you're outside of the state or you're with the the Blue Cross hith and to answer your question we bring it home
is yes those costs will be shifted to all the members within the pool that's the reason for the double digit in it's not the cost of healthare it's that people are leing the insurance is now now all the bad it's a combination It's a combination
so so can I ask a followup question so could the could the opposite be said that if recruit other towns to join this fund after we do would the prices be driven down that's what we want and that's what we we want to see so that so
this year um so aquasure as you know Craig hofflin um sits um on on we l on with him as a speaker of the house so we always get that information to help us
steer things in the right direction so in looking at where the state is sitting right now we saw or are going to see another double digit increase this coming July again because Aon can we have to have so we have to take that $50
million the state bonded for that's why I don't know if you you follow the New Jersey uh legue of municipalities and the reports that they put out by uh Conor strong and bucko so if you saw on there actually just as of today uh the governor vetoed uh law law uh not a law
bill that uh advised that now they want to have complete transparency where they are triaging and looking at every Bill everything coming in when it comes from the carriers themselves that actually I'll send it over to Chris and he can
disperse it to you guys but to my point that $50 million that they bonded for it has to offset and be reloaded into your rates coming out for 2026 and then okay so this change would be for when if
we were for June so if we did June we would the savings that we saw up there we' be half the savings for the year pretty much we're talking that is correct yes that would would be a savings towards our cap obviously just because it's right well that's my question so my question Nancy is this
past year we were given certain um concessions right on how much was Inc cap and out of cap for the health benefits right wasn't certain percentage of the total cost every year the state tells us what they'll allow as an out of cap expense so that's based on
our cost we've not finished the budget yet so we would adjust our cost to include the savings which we have to do yes it would help our it would help the pth so understood but by going to this plan right if it was the 14% versus the
17% this is an incap expense right this the hit this H so the currently this year we're being able to take approximately 133% out of cap but that's only because so the
percentage Remains the Same it's the cost that's going right that 133% though is specific to State benefit cost or is it specific to any so whether we're in this hiff or state benefits we could still take it out so if we can take a 13 out of cap and the number there is was
14 138 it was 138 much only8 would be it's the increase it's your increase right that you're the percentage you're allowed to take out right of the 14% instead of so let's say we had started January 1 to take in cap what they
require which I I don't unfortunately I apologize I did not have that ready for tonight I I'm pretty sure it's about 4% anything over 4% is outside cap right so it's not necessarily what we're allowed to take out of cap it's what we
have to take in cap that the term is it how how easy is it to go in and out of state let's say miraculously in three years the state does some overhaul and you know the cost so I will tell you let's say so to get
out of the state it's easy to go in the state it's easy we we do it all the time I do it with my because if my clients are are not seeing savings or they're hitting a real bad budget year and they need to go into the state to give a
little reprieve you're going to do it the only thing is is there are 60 days to go 90 days to go in 60 days to come out that's the only criteria now I will say this with any hiff yes you are committed to three years but if that hiff is doing bad they cannot legally
hold you bind you there I'm saying this in a public session so if you felt that the hiff and become of taxpayers pay that it's not going to be in your best interest to stay in the HTH after a year and you feel that you need to move you
have to move they can't legally bind you yeah copy that and that's why you take a member from each municipality and put them on the as part of the fund oversight so that just Union City can leave also whatever
correct do you have to let anyone that applies into the plan no actually we turned we have already turned away B Roselle um four people four four people four uh entities already and are
you just Burrows or is it school districts counties so school districts are a whole other animal we're trying not to commingle if we can't because school districts typically have an aging population and they were run worse than
our municipalities it's just just from from from just you know being in the lay of the land and having both entities under my perview um it's not something where we would divide that up that's why the
state divides education by themselves and municipalities by themselves municipali it's cities and counties Burrows cities counties towns yes yes Boards of Ed or Boards of Ed they're completely separate and as side two other questions and then I just want to
summarize real quick I heard there 43 folks that are not active and retired that are that we currently cover that sounds very close to being correct okay yeah what about dental uh so that will be separate we still have to talk a
little bit about that uh because we need to get more detail but I've been trying to you can put your dental with Horizon if you have your dental with the state they will actually give you points for that as well um for your retired members on a Medicare Advantage plan
that's why I like that's why I like dealing with their retire is just better um State gave a 23% aquasure hiff gave a 10.4% because of bargaining power under relationships you have 33 enrolled in that and then
you have 10 enrolled that's um not that's under 65 okay vivana does the inclusion of dental keep the increase at only 13.8% or if we added Dental
no no that yeah we keep them separate and aside now because again the department of banking and insurance did not approve Dental to be part of the hith so what we are doing with our members to prepare that is we are just
having it under Horizon and when we get that approval um within I would say by June July we should be able to get better numbers for you guys because of that and usually the health insurance funds will give a point or two when you have them together so it's
being built up as we speak to your point so just want to paraphrase back so irrespective of the entity that the burrow used for health insurance we can still take advantage of a percent in increase out of cap based on what the
state says right yes sir okay number one number two there's still a question mark here that when we add Dental into this plan there's a potential that it's not 13.8% it might be helpful whatever we
don't know yet okay check um I'm good thank you you're welcome I have two questions sure just out of curiosity what would disqualify talents I loss ratios um so the way that
insurance works just real quick just for your edification and I I'll say is that if an insurance company is paying out more claims then they're getting in premium dollars it that ratio is what will disqualify them and we look at at least two years um that's why when Chris
requested his loss experience we looked it it gave us about two years to see where you guys were trending month over month so anybody that was running way above a 100 or even at 100 we did not take them because that'll only that that'll drive your cost
down two years ago um the B had tried to do the same thing and they had shopped around their claim support for their RX and also for their medical um our claims were high two years ago and um nobody wanted to take us on as a hip so that was why we didn't do it two years ago or
last year yeah or last year as well I think every year we searched and every other year we had to pay the search correct every other you get a free one every year every other year every other year we have try the last two years so
this was our free year and our claims have to be low this year so took advantage of it to see who'd be interested in us and we're locked in even if our claims go up in the three years well as explain yes they want you in years but you can make the argument
that they can't buy what happens correct yes so once you guys are in your in they can't kick you out now I will say this that you need the larger municipalities to subsidize you I don't care if you're with the state per or aure hith you do need them to subsidize
you because there are going to be years when you guys have because Health unfortunately your health can't be predicted you can have a heart attack you can have cancer that just you can have a baby that's born with an issue and spend six months in a ncu you can't anticipate those things so it's almost
like a CIS you know what I mean it it yeah I understand what you're saying why does Union City want to be the big fish in this like why wouldn't they want to be subsidized by a bigger city I know someone has big believe it or not they
are running really well and they they don't want so when so one duties here is that when your members need they want to be able to pick up the phone and say hey I need my member to get this access I need my member to get that they want the
autonomy they want that say when you're in the state you do not have that state you now have more of an autonomy you can say I go ahead check do you have the um do you have a do you have a business plan for the hith that sets
different you know milestones for for the year quarter by quarter with how many Burrows you're trying to bring on and who they are and who you're targeting I don't know if we can release that um I can find out for you but I'm not sure if I can release that to the public I know Department of banking
insurance has it yeah as long as the plan exists it's important Brian my question to you when you getting to the regulatory oversight how do we how do you ensure that like fiduciary responsibility right that that they're good stewards of the fund so
that's Wisconsin is famous for that a lot of insurance companies are regulated on Wisconsin I'd be surprised if they're not um it's sort of like Delaware regulates corporations yeah um Wisconsin has a specialty with insurance um but there there typically is a mechanism
that's making sure that that um they have the claims paying ability because what you don't want is an insurance company that can't pay the claim right that's the scenario regardless of the cost right and that's why the state had to issue $50 million to my guess is their claims were higher than the
premiums since they they don't have Capital say issu de close of issu Deb check so there are for-profit Horizon's a big name they use reinsurance and they're regulated so I I do want to dig in and find out
for sure where it's regulated but there is somebody watching the store and there's members of each burrow that are part of the fund oversight right she said one yes member joins from each committee so it's okay what's the vo Council so right now the four the the
actual voting members um Chris fie is there um Craig from little silver is the treasure so they see all the in tre nothing can pass through your hiff without Craig um there the
CFO down in Little Silver and that's for the entire fund each municip I'm sorry can can you sorry there's like a lag can you bring up the the slide that showed the structure of the fund while you go through thise
true I want to know where the voting power is like where where who who maintains control is it one or two people or is the members of the fund well and that's a question good question it is the V proportionate to the number of members they have in the
plan so Union city has the most votes so you have the fund commission which is appointed by each member right then you have the fund director and executive
which is acashore Horizon Blue Cross fund Treasurer fund attorney auditor um so voting members I believe it's in this one hold on a second this one here it is
um profit entity right so when you know there's it's like there's equivalent board memb so when you're going to make a strategic direction or do you want to see what an actual agenda we actually having one tomorrow would you like to see what one looks like right now but I don't want to take up more
time can you just email it to Chris okay may just real quick does this might answer the question for the fund Commissioners uh are they the ones voting for The HTH um the fund Commissioners yes does
each town have one fund commissioner or does each town have commissioner proportionate to their size so they have one commissioner doesn't matter the size and one alternate and what structured so structured like a hi would be would be
that is correct umone the fun Commissioners have equity in the for-profit for example like for the J I'm the for the J I'm the fund commissioner right yes so no but you have absolutely yeah absolutely not they
and and but with the bylaws um so when you join the hiff your bylaws are released to you but they cannot have Equity into there at all um all the fund Commissioners is an unpaid
um is an unpaid position the only one that will be even remotely qualified for a stien would be second um would be um your the Craig which gives you a
stien of 15,000 per year that is uh uh built in I'm just going to show you very very quickly because I know you guys got to go hold on so this is typically what what um this this is for move this out of the way um you'll see the administrator's
report this is for tomorrow you'll see everybody that's on there the auditor the treasurer the M it's it's very organized um you'll see all the stuff that's on here it'll go through the minutes you'll see each person the roll call the
attendees and all members get um a copy of this meeting agenda um you'll see all the minuts here you'll see just going down approval of the minutes again it's done by each member of each Town that's in there um
the administrator again is aquasure they'll give you all the issues that are going on if any um where we uh with Dolby again we're brand new so you know they're they're ones that are passing the resolutions the financial
reports um all this again it just keeps going like like I said I don't know if I could release this to you guys so here we go um did I just see it you'll see like
Ricky GS say the alternate each one each one of these and then whoever's on here will keep going all their roll calls each town has a say in there then they go into executive session they're talking about
claims um Burke uh Kevin Burke is also a commissioner for his town uh as you see here again it's just like like a normal you'll see all the resolutions what they need to do who they're they're
voting in everything has to be payment Etc so I I I love it just to kind of keep moving forward VI I mean phenomenal work for me I like it I have initial support behind it I have the question mark around dental have a question mark
about the strategy of how they're going to grow to keep getting that rate lower and lower to keep it advantageous for us and then obviously the CFO analysis right Inc cap out of cap what comparison prior with State versus going to this all of that which I know we haven't done
yet you haven't TK to do that started so have we have we officially been this process work offered put up an Instagram it's doing kind like accepted
accepted so would just but there's something else I would just to shortly talk about do you remember when we were speaking about the retirees and a change we could make there with the part B yes just real brief synopsis of what that
could do for the B please so when you're in a medicure Advantage plan you are in effect it's either you pay one or the other um I believe you guys are paying for their part B and you're paying for 100% of the
insurance coverage so when you get rid of that part that they're paying for their part B or that's subsidy it actually helps you guys a long way to be quite honest it's usually one or the other it's unheard of that you pay
both but then is that more for the employe today more for the retiree correct because right now you're covering 100% of their coverage we're paying their coverage and their their part fee and anyone that has
coverage now is guaranteed to get coverage under the new absolutely absolutely so that part B is used to offset the Medicare Advantage plan so you guys are paying 100% of that
premium and you're also reimbursing them for their part B what do other what what are the other four towns in this do specific to the retirees in this scenario none of them are be so it's either or so if they are paying they pay
chapter 78 on their um retiree they they they pay that they will not they will offset the part B if they're not paying 100% for their benefits they're not paying the part hard B we're doing both you're doing
both most municipalities can't afford to do both have we done an have we done an analysis on what that savings would be for us and then also like about how much is that adding to the individual we know so I can tell you right now for anybody
over 65 uh it is for 2025 it's $187.50 a month the plan B part of it the plan B part yeah so 187 time 12 times the number of people that over 65 more planing and
actually to Nancy's point if I may jump in there so the way that that rate's calculated if you have higher assets or higher income in one year sometimes that monthly rate can be $3 $400 a month just you're aware over
400 and it's not just one VI if for us it's not just for any prior to 20 18 or whatever so only the newest retirees are just themselves everybody
else in the past was the member and spouse so we did remove the spouse going forward but now what she's suggesting and I am supporting is that going for like everybody who's currently you know it's a grandpa situation but going
forward removing that part P just add something real quick to what NY is said this year's this year be the year to make the decision because we have two big collective bargaining agreements that expired the end the year the PBA and also the uh the teamsters contract for DPW so we wouldn't be able to do
anything now until those contracts expire but that would be something we were going to go down that road we need to discuss now clear on what you're can you be clear on what you're suggesting just if that going forward based on
negotiations with the Union but specifically not aligned at this point once we going forward we would no longer pay that monthly reimbursement Teresa retired already she's grandfathered in and we'll pay
both when Mr York retires he's not grandfather will only pay one so we're not affecting playay the person in the spouse you don't take it away no the spouse is already gone a is GNA happen so oh God n from the library just
retired right she gets $187.50 a month right for her alone right are we are we allow to talk about are we to WR people to have this conversation sorry she's not an employee she's not employe anymore I'm just TR this the first time I'm doing this ex
that's not a real person we're talking fictional we pay 18750 a month we make this change we change our chapter 78 I always get 7848 mix up where we're no longer subsidizing Part B the next person that retires after we
make that change based on our Union C negotiations we no longer pay that 18750 a month that's my going forward and most municipalities your size if I may jump into just didn't give you benchmarking don't even cover the part B they don't
they they can't afford it so and because of past practice and precedence already set to ny's point it's just better like I said even if you don't move forward this is a change that should be done anyways because of where we are so at this point just from 2025 going forward
you get rid of the part B altogether for anybody newly retiring so what happens if the negotiations they say no absolutely we won't do without Plan B well that's a that's what negoti negoti I get okay but then what happens
like if we've committed to this and then they it's not one or the other it's not moving into the hiff and we have to do this it's moving into the hiff and hey here's something else we can do to save the bur so the H you can take part plan
B the recommendation so the part B totally different yeah don't put that in the notes so the part B reimbursement Li minute and the part B reimbursement is a municipal
decision yeah got not that but it's not you don't have you're not locked into that by doing the yeah and just to just to clarify it's not it's not deal breaker to get into this HIIT it's an additional savings we could have on top of if we went into this hit and that was that is corre yes no my last why asked
her to speed by it after we finished the question no I think that's that's great and this all sounds great um the just question is optimal RX versus I think you said Prime Therapeutics is correct notable difference between the two their formularies are a little bit
different so what we've been doing so anybody that's been used to getting a certain medications we're making exceptions because again the differing formularies so but if they're going they're coming from the state we have seen a little bit of disruption in that um because some again it's all formulary
based and every PBM has a different formulary but once it you know if there is a medication that they were on before they'll get it on this one you have my word on that because again control it there are certain medications that are covered by RX that aren't necessarily
covered but if they were already they're grandfathered in if it could just be a requirement where that is correct the state may allow you to have the name brand where they may require the generic okay okay that's good thank you B so so
just real quick just to whoever said that point so it's whatever the state requires we're going to require because we're making it equal to or better um it has to be extremely equal to uh especially because you have a police Union and other unions in there so we want to make it consistent with
that don't worry Andrew we only broke four refunds ear you go that's a joke for the record thank you thank you vivana very much you're welcome apprciate itri great all right
take care we'll get back to you after yeah no worries take care you guys have a good evening bye thank you thank you point I would like to make is and I do have to confirm this but currently if an employee is our one of our employees
is covered under state health benefits um with the spouse they do not get a waiver so a waiver for insurance so employees who do not take insurance are not already covered by state health benefits they get a waiver of a maximum
of $5,000 a year for employees who are not getting that waiver due to having a spouse and or being covered under state health benefits um they will now be eligible to have a waiver so that is increase yes if we move to the hi so
full transparency that would you know that's another 15 to $20,000 Max a year do and that is full incap expense do you think there's any material advantage in um hiring talent
to continuing to pay this out is it a benefit to employees to come to faen that we are the waiver the the plan the state plan the state plan or the new one the change of the plan I think you're saying
the part B like you continue to pay part B was that a benefit to hiring employees does that ever come up like oh they they people don't think about it who's going to think about it is your unions and the
majority of our employees are fulltime are through the union sure as councilman de melli said it's all a negotiation so they're good to think about it you know it's a give and take as we all not and and what's the timeline here if we if and process if we wanted if the
collective body wanted to make a change so the collective body wanted to make a change we'd have to put it I'd say if we want to get on June 1st we probably want to have it on the next council meeting as an agenda for a vote for a vote well she said then we have to get then we have to
notify the state get 60 days to get on June 1st do we need a workshop and on a resolution well we we have time you want to research it right mayor we have time it doesn't have to be next meeting so let's back it up if we want
to start June 1st we have to give the state 60 days so June May April right so we want like we'd want it done if we could get it done for next meeting great if not at least the first meeting in March March 31st the is the the one
thing we risk I'm sorry yeah the one thing we risk we go past the June 1st dat then the rates will get recalculated and that's why we don't want to go to the later March through because we want to be able to request all the reports that we need from the state before we give them notice understood so it's a
60D backend plus an additional ample time to compy I'm thinking of questions I didn't asking can you find out if anyone's left since they've started that's the only four they've ever had that did they start those four like started when did they start they started
on the 1 January January 1 okay I the little st's been working on for a while so they may have been The Originators right there were several tabs that have been working on it since uh since 24 but all of them went live on it on the first of this year uh secondary question which
I don't think is going to help us but I'm just curious I assume they're pitching other municipalities as well so if someone joins before us they recalculate when our priceing be lower what she said in the presentation
was that recalculation will occur January 1st 2026 okay anyone coming so we have to wait a long time to potentially get six months yeah seven seven months but part of the larger group rather
than and just to add real quick you know I had originally reached out to Vivian in 24 as well so um you know when we got when we got our our claims report um there had been several emails and conversations that were going back to
probably end of October November so we had been in conversation with them um so it wasn't just an automatic you know we like your report we move on forward U it did take several months before um they did get back to us to determine if they would want to take our town on so there was some there was some time before they
made a decision I think they're being fairly Discerning about who they take them good um I'm sure governing body members will think of more questions over the next uh week and a half um maybe we do an update at the next meeting and then the following meeting
we put it on for a vote if it's still on track is that fair with everyone yeah I just I think we all need to know what's going to happen with d and then a before and after Snapshot from a financial perspective of what this looks like incap out of cap I think at a minimum we need that to do we get
that update by the 24th I will do my utmost I know you said about the spouses now getting coverage or um spes are no longer so we're saving then you're saying so
currently not non-aligned employees when they retire the only coverage they get is themselves yes so when we go into the hiff the spouses would be covered no no no no so again that's our chapter 78 got it has nothing to do with the insurance
company okay yeah we would we wouldn't be asking to do anything more than what we're currently no we're not looking to what were you saying that that you said about 20,000 though you said in full disclosure or that would be about W waivers Insurance waivers okay so I think I would want to see what that
additional cost would be well current currently if with our existing set of employees that would be 15,000 okay if we hire a mechanic or somebody you know we have two two to three positions open
right now if they come in without insurance it's another 5,000 Max because it's based on your percentages of what you have to pay like there's a whole calculation for it so the majority of us of those under the
waiver get the 5,000 but not everybody like we've got somebody at like 25 somebody at 3,000 but the maximum is 5,000 which so the maximum got it for the bur would be an additional PL currently it would be 15 if we did it today in the before and after snapshot
though you'd have a line item that would account for that right because you said it'd be 20 grand incap Max 20 grand extra incap depending and I say Max 20 but because I know we're hiring at least one more person in the short term it'll be a line item that you can account for and what it would look like after the
fact if you did you want me to add the health wer correct 100% right should cover all costs yeah that's so for plan purp Council decides they're going to go forward we notify this state after we get the report we're going to have to
enter into an agreement I men similar to our Jeff yes and appoint our commissioner and Alternate correct yes and does that all have to be by June 1st we would have to you would have to be by the June 1st we go effect yes y but we could
let the state know that we're out before we do all that correct right once I once we notified that just make sure we have all our ducks in didn't get this that here and the commissioner be someone from Administration staff of us yeah for
example for right now the commissioner for the GIF you know I'm the commissioner Alison's the alterate for the GIF we would probably use that same model okay we'll see I was ask the
alternate someware yes yeah it doesn't you know we can decide that what if I what if I want to send Marty what if I want Marty to go right second love you all right um we are moving along the uh the proposed open
space tax Workshop session is actually going to be Rel listed on the February 24th agenda um now seems like a good time to wish Betsy well hope you're feeling better um we're moving along to public comment on agenda items only
please stand identify yourself your name and address please observe a time limit of three minutes morning 33 h Road and I have three questions on health insurance one and you probably know all the answers you probably all discussed it already but I didn't hear anything about
the doctor Network do you get the exact same doctor Network under this plan that you were under the other yeah so it's for it's not hor horizon horizon to Horizon it's same or better so they either have the same right and so that do you know if
it's excuse me have you had and will you continue to keep then Nationwide coverage with if the coverage isn't changing okay and the third question is on the formul because he said that current employees will keep if you change for the
prescription benefit the formulary might change but your employees would be able to keep the medications that's what VI however formularies change yearly so is that guaranteed through additional years well it's no
more guaranteed than it would be with State Health okay just checking thank you it's good question thank you Marty really good question anyone else uh public comment agenda items only anyone anyone all right Allison anyone
online nobody has their hand up all right thank you we're moving along to approval of minutes talking January 27 2025 regular meeting and executive session do I have a motion to approve motion second Alison may I please have a roll call
yes yes yes perent yes thank you uh moving along Old business facilities update uh fist Chapel faan DPW um Landscaping plan got a PowerPoint today I love power Betsy
loves the power points all love the power points drive on the like we did last time okay [Music] umow
here okay cool everybody see the cursor yeah um so first things first so the Maple Avenue Landscaping plan um over the last several weeks um multiple discussions taking
place and off of all the work from last year rewind the tape a little bit there were some there there was quite a bit of unforeseen on the Maple Avenue side which is up here where the 39 Dees 24 is this is maple Avenues there was quite a
few unforeseen circumstances in the Maple Avenue S specific to landscape uh fast forward resident engagement multip conversations back and forth meetings Etc um what you're looking that is uh the updated Maple Avenue plan that
is going to be passed to hall for a cost estimate proper cost estimate um in the conversations with the professionals um the phrase that they used was from a maintenance and plant size and an intensity it's equal to what
was done at Third Street in Allen Street which is good it was one of the things that we were worried about um what has to be known here is that the three different sides of the Landscaping all have three different kind of intents and purposes right so Allen Street's the
front of DPW third Street's adjacent Maple Avenue is the back of it right and all of that requires just a slightly different um perspective so now pending the governing body Direction The Next Step would be to pass this updated plan
to the GC for an accurate Co um we would work with um Ker's engineering who is the um landscape architect there's two Landscape Architects assigned to it same Landscape Architects that worked on the beginning plan they're working closely
with Sher Sparrow our CTE we're following the exact identical process we did what two years two months ago now um but we need to get an accurate um cost estimate couple other data points just to give here um this is the whole
Landscaping plan okay so up here at the top of the screen is maple the left side of the screen is Third Street the bottom of it is Allen so what the what the next steps would look like is we would review the updated change order based on the
original bid to ensure continuity because we're talking natives because we're talking the same type of planting because we're talking all the same characteristics to a certain extent on the Third Street and the Allen Street side we know what the unit price it is
for example so we can make sure that from a financial continuity perspective it's the same and I'll get to that in in a slightly little bit um we're also making sure from a timing perspective so if you look at this third bullet down we want to ensure as we enter into the site workor phase
for DPW that all the Landscaping is done um and so that the site the offsite improvements for Maple Avenue it's all buttoned up now the two things that we need to um do as a facilities committee so the original cost of the
Landscaping not including Maple Avenue enhancements okay so the original plan which was everything on Allen everything on Third and then there were four trees on Maple was $663 185 now I put an aster there
because we we added up the line items in the bid and the professional did not validate that so I want to that's why there's an as there can I just qualify when you say original the original plan had a rain Garden it was I think it
was much bigger than this even was so you're saying by original you mean the original of this plan yeah correct that sorry yeah my bad okay so the cost of landscaping that was in the approved bid
6635 yes you are correct right originally we were hoping to do a rain Garden we couldn't because where the rain Garden was going to go that's actually like a oil and dirt catch Basin right to catch everything off from the from the the DPW and I think we originally had like somewhere around a thousand plantings and we worked with it
to get it down by a third so yes you are you are correct so I guess this would be you know not the original um can I ask something is there any negative side that you're saying there's like a lot fewer plants so is that less storm water p no there was um I can rewind the tape
there was conversations that took place to ensure how much we reduced it was not equal to how much we were reducing the efficiency and the effectiveness of it so if we reduced I forget the numbers so don't quote me the numbers but we reduced X plants let's say it was like
30% of the plants maybe there was only a 10% impact to the total plan uh as far as how much time it was going to take to reach a level of maturity or whatnot it's just one arbitrary example I could dive back into the meting minutes but there was a a cost analysis
because the original cost estimate for the Landscaping came back like around 100 Grand 100 Grand plus and and I can't remember the exact number so again don't quote me um but the the governing body everybody wanted to say well that might be a little bit too much can can we trim the budget back a little bit and still
achieve almost everything we want and if we can great what are we giving up how much are we saving Etc so that was kind of the conversation when you when you look at now the the last cost estimate and again it wasn't that last cost estimate was a
swag I'm not going to say what SWAG stands for but it's a swag silly wild blank guess right you can fill in the a um came in at 48340 so we have a little bit of work to do as far as working with the professionals because to me it doesn't
make sense for me personally L if everything originally cost 6635 we made these enhancements and that's an additional 48 on top of the 66 just seems a little imbalanced but again that was purely because we were shooting ideas around there were there were swag guesses going around so to land the
plane here seeking direction right from the governing body is is we have the updated Landscaping plan that the engineers the Landscape Architects and our CTE put together pass that to Hall they're going to give us a cost estimate that cost estimate is going to be broken down by unit pricing because that's how
the bid was put together then what we can do is we can do a side by-side comparison see if it's financially consistent if it is great if it's not that's a whole other conversation um and then go from there go ahead keep in mind anything that was not originally put on plan for nle app that
could have been considered and was not is not a change understood but what about unforeseen circumstances that come up so like what's the unforeseen irance the property existing the 13 trees that were strangled and then deemed no longer
healthy after the time we can look into that but maybe it's just we have to be careful especially in the project of this size understood that we're not creating change orders that aren't really change orders yeah 100% agreed
right but it's from from the understanding I have right is that when you have unforeseen circumstances come up that weren't there such as the the parking lot that 12 in of concrete that was underneath the DBW side right we would have no way of knowing that and then when it came up right so we were
presented with an unforeseen circumstance and I think the facilities committee over the last two years and two months as long as I've been doing right has always made sure we were consistent with how we're approaching the change orders and ring on our professionals to know us what we can and cannot do right so we will maintain that
right but this all stemed from the the it was actually more than 133 the unforeseen circumstances that popped up on a an something that documents that 100% that's help we have we have the CTE report right that Sher Sparrow did we have we have multiple on-site meetings
we have video recordings we have pictures yeah yeah copy that that's why I'm just trying to get up from before we go spend more money to get to done tot makes sense so drew the 48,000 is all Maple Avenue addition yes essentially but you're you think it's going to come
in under 48 when we get ultimately or your um with what the professionals have told me it should come in below that okay because the you think the 66 will come in below no the 66 is what is what we've already signed for based on the bid got
it okay can I share my thoughts for the record which I've shared with you I think this is overkill I've shared that a bunch of times with the entire body um I don't understand a consistent Landscaping plan because I don't think that all three sides of the building
have consistent uses so I've been calling as many of you know the Maple Avenue botanical gardens in the back it's uh there's just way too many plantings going into um cover what amounts to 13 trees
that we take out how many was it it's almost everything really I can't I can't remember I know there somewhere around there that's about how many trees we took out and how many new plantings are we putting in now on that side just to clarify there were two there were two
two CTE reports generated by sh the first one there was several removals and I forgot the quantity yeah there were the original CT was three sections which the landscape architect prepared a design response according to that
removals and provide infill plantings it's beautiful finish and then the second report which was the suppli report came after the fact and that's the one that essentially removed virtually after everything yeah I me virtually um and most of them were
quite tall they were doing a big part of the buffering but they're gone now so is the purpose of all all of these plantings buffering Sound Storm water Man collection retention yeah and what
could we take out that would affect negatively impact the sound more you know like where's that where's the balance yeah where's the balance yeah 100% and that's why by submitting this right here this one
to Hall it's the same types of P plates same Matrix we'll be able to get an idea and then from that conversation we can then determine if there's hey is there a way to reduce the number of plantings in order to achieve 90% of the the effect
that we want but we can't have that conversation until we get back the actual analysis from Paul we can't I think it would also be helpful um to see are we working with the same pet of plant materials on all three sides I know we are but are that could be help
by the governing body yeah but also um I think it would also be helpful to see elevations and I'm not suggesting they get drawn but if they can pull images of similar types of installations so that not not everyone is um comfortable
reading inter you know so it'll just give an idea of what is being what the design 100% I can I can recirculate the Matrix which shows all the plant dates and then I can recirculate the photos the Chris Z Zack
gave examples of what this would look like he sent out phot yeah okay and you've got that just that can you go back to the list I'm sorry no it's weird heart should just look at that so my my my other concern was just how much of
this property we're taking up and I believe it's firm related is that accurate correct and don't forget it's shifting to the right I'm using rudimentary terms this fence this the fence used to be here weed the fence 40t so the BM used to be out here and we
shifted it furthering we're actually getting so you're saying the property stays the same the amount of property yeah okay all right so it's not like the fence is currently here and we're losing this netive no no the fence is to the yeah all I could say is is this line
right here mayor right the fence right now is 40 ft to the L of that I got you so we're I don't know where sort of maintains existing that yeah okay what are these circles
here yeah that was plan so we'll send it to Hall get the change order we'll work with the professionals to conduct the cross comparison we'll work with Finance to make sure that everything is is fully
above board as it always has been from day one and then hopefully at the next governing body meeting we can come with with a recommendation for approval so then we don't miss our window for plantings in the spring and with the sites going on everybody cool yeah
thanks awesome all right next on the agenda parking lot fish Chapel okay so based on the last discussion and the feedback that we got from the
governing body um the professionals put together this updated plan um this updated plan um included this second storm water system down here in the parking lot so everybody can see my cursor circling
around it okay this this is adjacent to naap Avenue naal Avenue is here on the right this street is on top of it is that a Bas um Rich what what type of system is it it's a detention it's not a recharge that
one this one's a retention in top left a bio retention right this one's not and the reason that it's not is because there are known water issues at fish street so there's a neighborhood issue when it comes to storm water and what
the the reason that that is the only type of system that could be put in there is is because there are too many unknowns with the stormw infrastructure and whatnot and we didn't want to add water issues to those three buildings because those three buildings on the
fist site have historically had water problems in the basement um so nonetheless this came the cost estimate came in almost 500 Grand more than budgeted so if you recall we put $300,000 aside this cost estimate came in around
790 um so given all of this there is a updated direction from the governing body that's required um as we move forward so as we as we look for that direction want to give some key data points and recommendations on subsequent
slides um real quick I also put in here and we can come back to this this is the fish Chapel parking lot Landscaping plan um you'll notice obviously the the rain Garden all the way to the left what was previously approved here's the bio
retention Center and and plannings around it right all to help enable storm water right it's that multi-pronged approach that you take in order to limit the impacts of storm water infrastructure so if we need to come back and reference this we can um it is in here and we'll make this available on
the website and all that like we previously done so here are some key data points that we want to share irrespective of reducing flow rates on the site the second storm water system has zero impact on reduction of water
so if you recall originally the direction that the governing body gave was they said hey if we had a second storm water system there is there an a is there a way that we can reduce water right reduce the impact make water disappear that's how the professionals
rudiment say to us we can can we make water disappear and the answer is no because of the known issues of water on site because the know neighborhood you can't create a second buyer tension uh
system there um and and and reduce water that's coming all the way from Natural Area four uh um Fourth Creek is it Rel to the same conditions that Community Center Fields they probably all tie in correct it's all tied in um the initial
intent behind the so second bullet the initial intent behind the second storm water system was to determine if we can conduct water infiltration to reduce the amount of water going into the infrastructure after after conducting the test pits and reviewing current infrastructure it was assessed this was
not viable due to the basements on site and reported water issues reducing the site to only one storm water system and remember that was what was originally planned and suggested but we want to see if we can do even better still achieves the same effect of matching existing
flow rats flow rates from the site with some reduction for recharge so the way the the the current the the single bio retention system system ensures that all the water from the pavement that is there right which
was agreed upon with the church right there's a lot of history there all gets put into that bio retention so we're reducing it's a net zero impact now one and A4 inches of ring gets discharged
into the groundwater so the biar recharge excuse me yeah not discharge that's the wrong word thanks M Michael um and there's always going to be an engine quarter of water there first anything more than that it goes into the Fisk um Street
infrastructure um initially we were concerned with the net negative impact pavment would have at the site however we were educated that the D flows minimally discern between compacted gravel and pavement the D doesn't look at anything material material when it
comes to the flow specific to compacted gravel and pavement this is important to note because jity of the surface as it stands today is not perious as such their significant runoff based on the new proposed solution which is the one system the existing flow off the entire
pave parking lot now is diverted into the bio retention system um the initial analysis also revealed additional storm water work that and and this goes back to what Nancy um that should be conducted as part of the pdcc project
when originally the Fisk Street Improvement were were identified what was included in the bid there was quite a few unknowns because there wasn't additional research and and insights done this has revealed what that is the exact extent
the exact scope all of that is still being understood and ironed out and then it has to be sent to finance to see if it is compatible with with changing the scope but there is additional storm water infrastructure enhancements that need to happen on fist there are some as
of now that Hall is conducting as part of the bid um but there's potentially some more um it's the professional opinion that the that if oh this was a really good conversation so if Fair Haven is really seeking to reduce flow
into the storm water infrastructure I.E make water disappear a regional storm water system located adjacent to the community center so think where the tennis courts used to be is a better solution to achieve this and these two bullets really drive it home and
the second storm water system at fish chapel and given the site considerations will not have material betterment not my word to the drainage storm water issues in the neighborhood the storm water issue is a neighborhood problem due to the historical size of Fair Haven storm water infrastructure as it relates to
modernizing storm water infrastructure based on Modern rainfall amounts um the other thing that wasn't in here to see oh I'll get there again so okay so I was tracking you and what I was hearing correct me if I'm wrong is that the detension Basin which is a significant
expansion I don't know what percentage of the increase it constitutes but I'm at imagine that's a significant por 133 to 175 right what I was tracking was I thought you were going to say that that has a a
public benefit beyond the necessary improvements for the parking lot which were're committed to with our in our partnership with the church but beyond that there's a public benefit to this detention system system happens to be at that site but that it has a neighborhood
benefit beyond that side so so so almost the second system would have far greater benefit for the public if it was moved to the community center area where the tennis court used to be the second the second system where it
exists isn't capturing other flow okay it's only taking half of the parking lot off of F Street and then putting it into the system it doesn't achieve the goal which was hey can we take flow that is
coming from up here down and take it and the answer is no it can't and because it's not a retention system because of the site issues that exist right we don't want to discharge discharge recharge water into fish Tre and then exacerbate the water issues that exist
for the infrastructure that's there so the professional said hey if if if it if and I mean back me up part the conversations right if you want to continue with the conversation feel free no I think the overall design concept what can you do
to in the drainage in that area as councilman that mentioned there are some known issues because of the landscape the way things flow in the street the existing infrastructure the size of pipes has everything kind of closed downable into fist ultimately makes it
way down towards we we met with the design professionals we said okay we have this project we need to do some storm order management here let's look at something that could maybe be more of a regional benefit okay
so because of the Topography of the land and issues with and F things that nature said all right let's sort of bate the systems calculations for the area which
is known as the detention at Maple at the entrance to that parking lot and then we already know we have this bio retention system which by the way as councilman had mentioned is designed for a subsample
storm those rainfall intensities we ran the numbers for 10 year 25 and 100 Year great but knowing the project going on next door Community Center PD the restoration efforts that need to take place Community Center at some point in
time we had made a recommendation as part of this presentation on our Zoom call the other day the more Regional benefit would be look at what's coming from Third Street flowing Southwest or North like the northwest
corner through essentially this site because everything's making its way down towards River Road that's just an a Topography of way Fair Haven is we already experiened issues on the fields we deal with you know the the recreation
department and all the coaches and all the volunteers out there struggling how to manage this amount of storm water because it just comes sheep flowing through so there's a you know if and when there's a phase two for the
community center Fields as part of a a one all of the community center project in PD that would be a more Regional benefit to design something to incorporate that whole area and it would take into account that drainage area where this
just kind of takes a smaller snapshot of of the parking lot area and and a little bit of the surrounding um properties but Rich this is solving storm water for an area beyond the the
property lines of currently there is Noor manag get that so but was that statement I just made accurate compared to the LA what well not compar this solution as it's drawn addresses storm water management concerns beyond the
property of the church right yes we so and and the original concept had had Incorporated the biot detention Basin to take the majority of the sheep flow correct the secondary system was
what can we do do to intercept theow from going out on Maple Down The Gutter and curve line in Maple and potentially further um taxing the system Downstream but that but this but but the Professionals in correct me if I'm wrong
that second system it can't intersect and this because of the topography because of the the water issues on site and this current design only splits up the water from the per from the parking lot into two separate systems yeah yeah
so the the one the original one you showed us last meeting would have been basically like under the pavement essentially is that right negative the one the one that we previously shown was just up here was this was this buyer attention no this one down here under yeah this is under the parking lot so
that's going to go away well we'll get to the recommendation but that that's where it's train yes and then they would instead of having that they would have the one in the community field when we would have to right the the recommendation is if we're going to spend 150 to 200 Grand
put it somewhere we can actually achieve the regional effect as opposed to just splitting up the now I okay okay is if that system gets eliminated the designers will go back and regrade
some of that to get it to flow towards that fire retention Basin that size to accommodate some additional FL okay and we had I had asked through this but if you can just ex explain what the news would look like on the
community center CU that would have been underneath the pavement and this would not this would be more of like a catch yeah type of we were saying it's slightly different yeah what are what are like hypothetically what are what are the type of regional systems that
can go where the tennis courts were hypothetically hypothetically you can do a large recharge system underground so then you can still maximize the use of the surface as playing field you
know playround wherever it may be just like you can build a parking lot over so it would be more of a subsurface could it be under like natural surfaces though could you regenerate the water for a spray park sorry because that was going to be
my next question like what were what was going to be planned to be there that this might be well we don't know yet we never got to his is it can go under we Maxim real estate there I didn't know
that can go under VAR uses and still maximiz a different it's a different system like a fair field we' got a sand recharge Basin out front there that with the the Gully kind of you know yeah that's that's your more traditional
style this would be I would Envision even though we haven't designed it yet or thought about it um from a design standpoint will be underground but also Michael bring like the conversation that it's effective maintain and the thought process was
that once we were done with these projects then when we get to phase two which is the community center then you can apply for the other grants that exist right then then there's like other options that we can start the whole process over again because everybody at least three years ago back governing by
time is like yeah Community Center needs to be taken care of field excuse me not commity that's what we're working on the community center Fields has to be taken care of and there's things that we can do there but let's see what this looks like at the end of it knowing that you know we're going to do all this work we knew F Chapel was going to happen we didn't know what it was going to look
like at that event so just to go take back so I I think I'm not clear though would this be done before a phase two or this would still be part of this would be part of phase one this phase All Phase One because it's the fist CH we probably want to consider like what phase two might look like if not yet for
that but for that space though I mean if I guess it wouldn't matter I guess we'll decide what kind of options we want for that we got to get there that is a PL design commity I get that I get that we
wouldn't want to slow this down and all that but it what I heard was that there's a way to solve a storm water management stuff here bring the cost down and we've identified some of the concerns which can be addressed at a later time we are no worse off in fact we are in a better position and there's
a benefit to the neighborhood as a whole correct okay yeah um couple of dat points because I see Steve in here um we are relooking at the Landscaping plan to see if it makes sense and if there's any additional shading that can go at the parking lot so that is happening there's another Resident feedback on hey can't
you design a bio retention for 250 year Atlas storm um the site's not big enough one for 250 year bio retention system what 200 200 oh there is no 250 thank you check check um the site's not big enough for 200 um and if there was a
200e storm most of Fair Haven would have flying um and we have if and the calculations were sent out to all the governing body members of all the atlas calculations so if that Resident emails us wants the couchs we could send them the Cs and show what your storm was sanding
consider 100 St 100 Year storm yeah and Rich sorry this question is kind of for you but Drew and I touched upon it but the surface of the parking lot is regular p that is not perious or it's impervious is there a way to make it
perious the design engineer our consultant proposing traditional as it was a reason why the application really met all the standards for puras and the size of the project I can get a
direct answer Al so the question I have for him was although this isn't considered if here was called like a ma major project do these would these storm water live up to the standards of a major projects yeah yeah and that's how I think and the perious as has for backs
and meats requirements I know now I know that and it's expensive expense expens a huge part of it but even but even separate from you're get you're getting at the the overall storm water solution right so yes it's to a major development and that was the first thing that that that tgp and Le said like hey even
though you don't have to abide by this we're going to yeah number one um number two when you look at all the different things from storm water perspective right so you have the bio retention system which is going to take all the storm water from all the pervious right which doesn't exist as of today yeah the
bio retention system itself is also inclusive of 2 in per hour natural recharge into the ground right and then what we also did was we we knew we had a rain Garden already on site but the plantings and everything around that I'm going to call them their green plantings
right they they help with the rooting system all that so we took multi multiple aspects to kind of put together a cohesive plan when it comes to storm water because it's such a significant issue and at the minimum we wanted to ensure that any storm water from the
site we were taking um and and we achieve we achieved that with bioen Sy and I and I wanted to emphasize that you had said that the what's there now the it's not permanent pavement but I forgot what you said compact you said it's no more perious than
correct doesn't show any material difference between compacted gravel and asphalt and we're not covering any more ground with pavement it's same uh actually simar to yeah if it's it's
either less equal to or less than the only thing that I would say is when you are reviewing the trees and everything really concentrate on getting some coverage on that parking lot because that's a pretty solid check check from perspective yeah from a heat perspective copy that so here's the recommended Next
Step remove the second storm water system ensure any additional work where you know we we have to have we have to make sure it's consistent with the change order protocol and all that if if it's not we'll make sure it's clear get an updated drawn and cost estimate and then pending certification of funds
because none of this works without a certification of funds SE to authorize the bid if it has to shift to the right it's fine there isn't you know if you called like two years ago the sense of urgency with how quick we we moving and all the different special special meetings was you know mold in the
building and this and that there is there's not a sense of urgency here that would that that you know need special meetings and all that we're taking it with a grain of salt with how we're operating right um and we want to make sure we're this close to the finish line that that we continue to do as as best a
job as we have so that's the recommended The Next Step why was it drawn with the detention Basin the bio retention Sy no the detention why was it's like never mind it's irrelevant it shouldn't be much fees it's just you know they could
delete correct yeah just case the back becomes a topic um and just why we're on it just everybody has the 20 seconds so we have the planning board briefing on the 18th just to give an update I went back to all the meeting minutes we
briefed the planning board with the capital review process on everything we're doing to include um at the fish Chapel parking lot obviously the design wasn't done at the time but all of that was brief but nonetheless we're going back there um we're waiting for the final utility to be turned on to the PD
Community Center which is water and the Heating units are targeted for full functionality on the 18th so everything's really progressing really nicely uh DPW punch list is in progress fuel tank demos begin tomorrow all the DPW Furniture the workstations are all
installed it looks beautiful if you want to take a ride by go check it out really looks fantastic the movements pending obviously this the co and then the punch list completion and then if you recall last year the off-site Maple Avenue improvements were authorized to bid the bid opening is
going to be Wednesday the 19th and hopefully we award that on the 24th um and again the goal and intent always is to remain that all the site work is done not only to ensure from a planting perspective with the springtime coming but the site work and everything is done
in Tandon to have it all be complete at the same time and put I think the neighborhood really appreciate they're they're they're fatigued it's it's it's unfortunate reality so you're saying DPW will be done before the spring essentially is the no I'll say by
Q2 I don't mean to be like fluffy in that but you know if we get a major snowstorm in April like we've seen what one week of snow can do in these projects so our goal as of today is that by Q2 both of these are done in their entirety obviously there's a lot of what
is in there and things can change but that's what we're working towards who's watering all the plants and trees at the Maple Avenue Botanical bety Betsy we have an actual plan for that since we don't have sprinklers or so you bring up a good point right because we we had a we had an email come in today from uh
from a resident on Allen Street what Chris is working on with Nick is the operational management corre so the next big piece here mayor is operational management code enforcement right a couple of these pieces without proper operational management without proper
enforcement and all that proper education right all of that it doesn't matter so we we're getting into those conversations now with engineering DPW I think Nick is getting his feet underneath them um but that's what we have to talk through there was one may I
IT addresses your sure I had one last question sure um if you recall we had at a site meeting with the landscape architect we talked about the need for a at least a oneyear post installation check check maintenance and yeah because
if we choose our plant material correctly which I believe he's done the need for continuous watering should diminish cor the initial window after the installation where it needs a little TLC and then we've got Natives and kind of carefully chose and plant material
that are good on their own and we built those in just for background like one year maintenance plans for all the Mechanicals one year for the Landscaping so that it gives us a year to get our feet under us both how to manage these buildings from a facility management perspective but also from a a site
maintenance perspective is there any other single project we've done anywhere in the town in the last 20 years with this level of landscaping in that amount of space and maybe it's a question for Rich the were
not Improvement [Music] projects is there any other fasi semi industrial operation anywhere in the bur I mean it's a known fact right the PD is in a residential area and so as
the D yeah well we have the um the site abing the Natural Area that's the brush brush site brush brush site we don't need that level of landscaping there and I'll also throw out we have
that beautiful um Mr olssen Mrs civia um as well as many members up here and Volunteers in the community beautiful Third Street Trail I don't think we even have that level of Landscaping on the Third Street Trail up against that so
I'm just I'm throwing out this is just my thought and obviously supporting the process and it looks gorgeous I mean it is a beautiful plan and I'm sure if um the body moves it forward it's going to be spectacular just my personal opinion
that it's a little bit little bit I have a question could the fund the tree fund could that money some of that money go towards this project well it's trees on public land so yeah it would have to be after it's
been done like we can't we can't co-mingle and mix so we'd have to have like line the sand saying okay Hall we're taking it back 100% done what's done is done sign off and then if there was a future project to do additional plantings then I would say that would
probably be I'm going to look at Nancy this is a this is a project that's been out to bid before I say no FYI we've sent out nine bit packets for the mle lab officing he smok bad man seven eligible to of like Brokers the
Brokers that's fantastic so good all right we'll come prepare for the next GB meeting thank you thank you for the presentation um moving along new business introductory ordinances 20251 Amendment to the brush and leaf Ordinance do I have a motion to open
motion it's not open oh we're we're introducing we're introd I motion to introduce motion to introduce second Alison may I please have a roll call yes Ste selling yes Betsy
affirmative yes Alis yes thank you didn't come through thank you um we TR ask for discussion there yeah any discussion so
just just quick level sets everybody right just like to keep making an educational moment um our stance has always been get faster get better get stronger right reflect um after the springtime concluded brush and
leaf got back together looked at feedback from all the residents there's a handful of recommendations it was briefed back in the fall think December maybe November November thank you um and this introduces those recommended changes um it's additional time for
resident to put stuff out it clears up some questions around the enforcement um it actually does give landscapers a little bit more time if you remember we went into the whole educational process of how a landscaper and 10% of a resident no 50% of a residents use landscaper I think that's stat um and
and the process in there so it reflects all that um we'll get to Greg can and rolling leaf pickup brush and leaf will meet separately this only pertains to Springtime because next month believe it or not it begins so just wanted to give
the quick background for everybody could I ask a question please um in chapter 16-5 .13 one time notice and time to
cure under a it says if any such Department what is the Departments that are being referenced I'm GNA defer to Christina on it with can you tell me what section again I'm
sorry 16 d513 13 page before the signatures so that just means that if the governing body gives a different department the ability to enforce the ordinance that it covers whichever entity or or uh
Department that is right now the the enforcement is given to the police department code enforcement and or the Department of Public Works so those are the three departments that's correct okay okay thank
you so if we could stay here at 16513 um so I I was contemp I know where the intention of this is to really uh to to bring about compliance one for the health of our sorar management system and the river and um to our clean
streets and the appearance of the community and all the the important goals that are related to this and I and we're using some some new methods to bring about that compliance I want to also suggest that um this new program
this service because right this is a service that we're providing to our residents and trying to be very um prudent with the costs and how much we're spending to accomplish this goal but there are materials that are being excluded from the service that you know
probably a lot of our residents are used to um um including certain materials that are now excluded from the service so I want to suggest that it's possible with a little education and some
kindness and sort of helpful communication along with the warning we can um make some suggestions as to how residents can properly dispose of the materials that are being excluded from the surface service rather and just to
be very specific those typically include things like hay bales pumpkins cornstalks annuals that are removed from their Garden or the vegetative waste from home gardens that you know many people used to put that in the curb and
and now they can't because that's the way this is but if they can't then what can they do with those and and I happen to know that betan has a lot of good suggestions this communication has been her practice but I'm going to suggest that we actually
um amend item a under 16-5 132 say leave the paragraph as it is and add including guidelines for proper disposal of mainten of materials which
are excluded from this service and we can list those materials but I think uh some sort of friendly page that has a picture of corn stocks hay bales pumpkins and the other typical categories of vegetative ways that what
the behaviors are may not be changing because people just don't know what to do with those things so um that be that' be some um I like the idea but would that be something we put into law or would that be an operational management piece I suggest that we put it into law so that becomes a common practice for
our staff um but I defer to our attorney on that obviously but I I'm suggesting that we put it in here so that's something that's at the front desk for thean all the landscapers can have it when they come by to Reg their company it's a good communication piece that
kind of fills the Gap that yeah I'll the I love the idea I think it's great and I think it's easy to slip an 8 and a half by 11 with a warning my only question is does it belong in an ordinance or is that an operational call I mean it it can I don't have any you know issue with it I think it's a the Minimus change too
so it wouldn't affect the introduction um as you guys know we're not able to publish so we can't um you as far as the public comment section or just introducing today um so Christina do you have any issues with amending it the ordinance I don't I I think that that's
fine um I just would like some clarification just exactly what one what the amendment is that way I can make sure it's accurate I mean I know you want pictures of certain types of things that are included in this collection I just want to make sure that I do have
suggested pictures that you want to provide or should I I trust our communications director manage the production of this piece at the direction of our bur administrator I'm I'll I'll I'll put the language in the form of a motion yeah I think what you're asking for is just to list the
items in in addition to section A not pictures pictures is something we could do as an operation I what's excluded I don't know where where are we though
16513 the new 13 a a the new 13 a it was the old 12 so listed because some things are pulled out some things are pulled out and you guys most of the items that are no longer part of this service and we right we know what they are because
we understand we see this all the time uh vegetative W pumpkins branches bigger than three in in diameter there where we Define brush we could expand that to includ this list I'm not proposing that I'm I'm proposing
an education piece which is a friendly tool you know most compliance is brought out by carrots and sticks and so a little kindness along with a warning goes a long way to Bringing people into
a sort of favorable compliance um and what I'm suggesting is that bettyanne can prepare whatever this looks like I'm not that would I mean that's certainly that's certainly that what you're looking for is an information to hand
out that an operational piece not so much the or piece and we so I'm going to put into I'm going to make a motion to amend paragraph a under 16- 5.13 which read would read as follows
including guidance for proper disposal of materials which are excluded from this service and then it could be up to our staff and our communications director and the communications committee
obviously to take care of whatever that might look like can I just clarify well we need a second here they do a second then we can have a discussion sure okay but if we if we say yes then it's automatically going in
without no there be AE we have to vote oh vote for a discussion someone need second discussion yes for motion to amend to amend so now you discuss whether you accept the amendment so my question is
are we giving residents away out of their summons potentially in other words yeah I might not be understanding it properly but if it's up to us to educate the residents and eight years from now our staff forgets to send out that flyer
that educates the residents the resident then can put their hand up and say well you didn't educate me and and they don't have have to pay the summons if they violate what's in the ordinance or you're saying to put in the ordinance the excluded items to inform the
resident not to put them out I'm confused on what you're saying I think that's what the second one is closer to it I would certainly wouldn't suggest that it in any way release them from the respons I don't want to give them a poison pill to get add I don't think certainly not what my intention is it
was to add an additional communication tool so that when the warning goes out there's also a one pager with some guines as to how to properly dispose of the things you can just you can clearly state that a written notice uh with
guidelines yes you could put put those two words in yeah yeah that would work yeah I like that and and I and I and I like I don't think we put no longer part of this service I I think list of items not
accepted you know including guidance how Soo just said it maybe just leave it as knows what guidelines and that that that that copies everything then from an operation perspective we can create that notices and have the listing in it I think that's that's the right verb
that's the Minimus change so I actually might also have an amendment to the way this is written so I don't know do I do that after we ac first this is Dom Minimus correct absolutely do you guys have more questions before I ask Alison for R call on this Andre just repeat what the
sentence is going to be it's just going no it's actually adding um written notice with guidelines so in the third line of a right after notice a written notice with guidelines shall be serve perfect I
like that awesome guidelines for proper disposal right I think that good we to clarify what gu operations respective we'll hand that yes yes yes
affirmative yes I didn't get a smile M thought do you have one I have one also I do I 16- 5.12 16- 5.13 I I think it's a little bit confusing because it's saying that
prior to the issuance of a one-time notice and the time to cure so prior to that notice non-compliant piles will be marked with a spray paint so it'll be marked with the spray paint and then
they get the notice it was or they're simultaneous like a double secret warning yeah double secret probation this was worded Chief might be able to to chime in here this was worded to give the resident the benefit of the Dow so instead of tying the spray paint to an
automatic issuance it's almost given another educational piece saying hey like we're going to mark it with spray paint we didn't hit you with a notice yet but heads up like this is non-compliant so it's just giv the resident a little bit more what's the wor
talking this was for the benefit of the res EXA yeah so they get this notice they get the X and then we're cracking that they've gotten the and what's the what's the goal on timing
they get an X what's the goal on when they would get a summon about a week so that we don't say but we don't say that they have time to cure it with the X we're only saying they have time to cure it with the notice they've been giving
10 days before but it doesn't specify that but the x is extra time anyway in other words right now they they get the 10 days which I think is becoming 12 no you get a Appliance warning yeah and then if if you don't get it done then
you're going to get but it doesn't specify that you have 10 days to get it done or you get this now you get a now you get a letter the letter gives you 10 days to cure which is what all you have now yours is an additional letter but what I'm saying is how much time after
the X you get the X it's never going to be perfect but said approximately one week yeah but how do the people know that they don't there it's it's a sign hey we're we're coming with the summons please move your brush the clock the clock starts in the letter and once they
get the Su they still have 10 days to cure once they get the letter I should say they still have 10 days to cure I think what's you know maybe not being said but it's important to recognize if once we may or may not like the ACT I certainly have my point of view about it but it's yet another communication tool
that might provide an opportunity let in fact a Gra period um for the resident to take steps I guess you're saying because it's intended to prompt corrective action that's pretty vague 10 days 10 days a
long time a long time it is but so so just just to go back with with you can get X today and tomorrow if you don't remove it you can get that warning letter correct you can but you and you still have 10 days after you get the letter after you get the letter the X was a means of I mean that was perfect
way to put is communication if if they're a repeat offender and they want to do the X and then issue summons they can if they want you know if they want to do at the same time they can it was meant to give flexibility to code enforcement while not um not patronizing
um something to the residence um not punitive well that's it well soing it's just like so but then we kind of go into if any such Department finds any violations they already found the violation because you got n but of
violation has not been issued the X is not a violation so that's like a pre-warning it's the warning to the neighbors too that I I I get it you know and I'll I'll be completely transparent I'm not 100% sure I like I think the x
is the way to go I'm willing to try it but I I do have a couple I don't know I'm on the fence about sort of the public I hope you don't have to do this X for a very long I'm not careful with
is that on the record that [Music] Michael did a whole education like he would knock on the doors it wasn't just like here you go Mrs Smith right I mean b a did put out um yeah in the focus and
in the buzz pumpkins you can handle it so I mean bit byit we're trying so I have one um 16- 5.5 the new 5.5 I don't know I
don't know if I'm looking at the wrong sheet here and maybe that'll answer my question but I thought yeah the brush can yeah brush can for container pickups see one is that the
new one yeah so I thought and I I'm really mad at myself for even bringing this up because I'm actually very um Pro keeping all the cans gray but I thought there was a decision that other colors
of cans were going to be allowed not that so not yet the brush and leaf committee has to finish getting all the feedback to provide the recommendations back so we purposely didn't touch the gray can okay which happens after spring cleanup and we purposely didn't touch rolling leaf pickup cuz that's after
we're only talking that's not a mistake it's still being tracked still being discussed and all that that's why I brought up I think I think there was a memorandum to the community saying that was coming I didn't want to miss that yeah again right phased approach we want
to address the spring because the spring starts next month get that get those changes done then bring the next set of recommended changes from BLC for the government body make a decision with what they want to do anything else councilwoman de sign did you you have a motion or you I mean I guess it's clear
okay I don't know not I get she has a premotion to a motion all right um I can move along you good no vote no vote here this is an introduction so we'll vote at the next uh next meeting well wech that was a
discussion March March 10th so I dro the thread we introduced it have we voted we we opened it by introducing it then you made a motion to amend the one word which we did so now it's introduced we let two meetings go by and then we're going to adopt it on
May March 10th this and the next and the next ordinance that we're about to discuss are both our meeting is tonight so I have to get 72 hours of the paper to advertise it and then we don't have enough time between advertisement and heing so we have to move it to the 10
because the 24th is going to be so we'll just have to make sure from an operational management perspective that everybody's ready because it's coming like it's right at the end of our window then can I ask a question so with I'm
Communications committee and what is the best way still email to get out this messaging like these changes are we thinking there's any other way we'll post the ordinance once it's adopted we'll post it I think yeah it'll
go to those this is this is a conversation I want to have with the communications because I think there's ways to to kind of pull out the the important information versus just like we might be able might be able to do like a nixel or something like that I was talking we'll also get it to those whove
licensed right Ban's been handing out everything to along withal for people to know like just the real specific pieces of change that here okay cool be great discussion okay um all right
next up uh 2025 D year to Amendment to fee schedule for food estab establishment licenses so I have a motion to um introduce motion second that I'll second thank you
Alison may have a roll call m Call yes yes yes yes yes uh thank you um Chris do you want to talk to all so um Jersey Shore Regional Health commission which is the group
that we belong to um recently changed their orded fees so uh this reflects the new fee schedule that they adopted at their last uh two meetings ago and with their January meeting so this is what it
is and this is the ordinance that we have to adopt reflect what their new fee schedule is going to be I have a question what is it says non- potentially hazardous food vendor that implies that there's a hazardous food in Fender what is that like pop rocks or
something that is a good question I H I honestly don't know I saw that in there I don't know what that reasoning for that is um I don't have an answer for that um my my only comment on This was
um two years ago there was an ordinance done on I'm going to call it like fast food restaurants remember is there any any other ordinance that has to be updated because of this no no great IT
addresses our Fe schedule on chapter two and then our question just want to make sure fantastic um good everyone's good there all right so again both of the hearing and adoption both ordinances will take place
at the March 10th meeting um we're moving woles to consent agenda uh I'm going to make note that we're striking 2025 67 um from the consent agenda so we're
talking 2025 66 and then 2025 68 through 75 before I ask for motion does anyone want anything separated does anyone have any comments on 66 I corrected an error in
the matter no oh yes I saw that good T I apologize I saw that with a thank you uh anyone have any comments anything before anyone have a motion to approve motion approve uh Alon might please have
a roll call Pa yes yes yes yes yes thank you Betsy can you repeat after me I consider myself the luckiest woman on the face of the
Earth all right we're going to Department reports January 2025 uh do I have a motion to accept the reports as submitted with a thank you motion with a huge thank you second any all in favor anyone opposed thank you uh
next up good to the burrow please stand and identify Yourself by clearly stating your name and address for the record please observe a time limit of 3 minutes anyone with a good of the burrow Mr hel how are you I actually came to meet Chris
respond very quickly to even though I had sent about just sure I BL but he were covering the storm the storm water situation at Fisk and maple um so after all is said and done do we believe that the current plan
will eliminate any flooding problems on Fisk street because basically Third Street goes like this and then we have the large new police parking lot you know have the new uh church parking on so how do you feel about about what we have so I'll say my statement then the
eyeball Rich so I I want to make sure we're talking about Apples to Apples right the flooding issue I think that you're referencing is where the water came down the old police department parking lot and crested over Fisk and then hit the driveways correct is that yeah yeah and some of the storm bipes
they they to upm S had to do with con so keep me honest so the infrastructure at the site and around is all going to be jettisoned and cleaned out after construction's done right it's going to make sure like the sand the debris all that garbage that gets in
there's cleaned out number one number two the way and I'll let reach Rich diving deeper if you want but I want him to test me right now um the way that the new parking lot and Fisk was designed was to prevent the cresting from going over there were certain
design flaws I'll call it I mean always 2020 like in the original design from 60 years ago right and obviously storm Waters storms have changed now with how much rain's coming so all of that's been taken into account the third piece as a releas to what we talked about today is
the storm water from the parking lot that is going at fish Chapel any of the raindrops that touch that parking lot go into the bio retention system none of those rain jobs that touch that go into the street as it does today right
because it just runs off now wherever it goes the only thing I would add is there's second system going to be catch basins within that parking lot or that site that will capture that run off prior to exiting as
it does now on of f so right now majority of the sheet blows out right parking lot yeah it's it's a massive storm water system under the new parking lot and that wasn't there before good comment I forgot about that and then I just had two comments you were speaking about the area behind the community
center um and I think somebody mentioned ball fields and what can we do with it for the the athletic area you also could make that a national area I don't know you need to be locked into making it some kind of athletic in that space it could be some kind of a garden or low maintenance kind of thing
where the tennis courts are yeah where the tennis courts 100% I I think we're going to look at every possibility I we're not locked into anything I'm not saying we're not going to put it uping Fields but I I I think when the time comes to
look at that phase and it's appropriate whoever the sitting governing body is at that time I'll look at every single possibility and get that'll also include the public you know for important participation I know first member um you you were asking about the
the amount of Shrubbery around the Maple and Third Street area it's probably unprecedented but I'm thinking about the town you basically got wild areas then you've got sort of residential Municipal areas then you've got residential areas and what's different about Maple and third and also Fisk and maple is it's
residential so everyone living there will benefit I think from when people drive down the street when people visit they feel residential not Municipal and not commercial but um I just wanted to ask because I looked I saw some of the plantings that are going in which I
completely support because I'm I'm a native Gardener in my backyard but I don't know if the town has experience in a residential area um with a lot of native plannings and even though you're here it after a year or so they don't
need watering and everything's easy it's actually not depending on what kind how you wish for it to look so you sort of need to be prepared if if all that strawberry Etc is native it takes more work than putting traditional plants in and I'm not suggesting putting
traditional because I don't think we should but might want to think about who's going to do that maybe the Green Team or volunteer groups can do do that kind of work Steve it's all great points and especially the end part very much thank you I just want to make sure I
clarify my my standpoint I agree with you on third as far as that's a um obviously not a main thoroughfare but it's a main uh Road within Fair Haven so I I I I don't have as much of a problem with the plantings there I don't have as much of
a problem in the plantings on Allen Street just because you know it's a different um yes there's more work going on in the front yard of the DPW we have our recycling center there and I feel like you know uh it's just a different situation I think my issue is more on
Maple I think we're over planting and I would say I asked the question too because if we were discussing these types of plantings in the burrow own lot um when you come into town on River Road near schanker I don't think I would be objecting because I think every everyone
benefits from that on Maple Avenue I think it's a much smaller subsection of people that just live on that street and I just think it's Overkill and it doesn't mean I'm right it's just that's you know yeah I'm just I'm just um you can you can overdo it but there is a difference between the Landscaping in a
residential neighborhood and and and we really appreciate you doing a good job sure but the second part about the native planning you can make a mistake if you don't understand it takes some care with those plants because they don't grow uh like pants that have been
developed to grow and be easily trained is that what you mean by native versus traditional yeah yeah yeah never heard of Russians like that before so there's I I take I take issue with part of what you're saying and we can talk about it afterwards but um depending on what you plant there can be some truth to what you said and certainly every landscape
installation M you you could look at it actually you should look at it um and I would just offer one point of view is kind of considered best practice and I would say this way no one neighborhood should disproportionately bear the
burden or a greater burden for a service that is enjoyed by the entire community and where there there is evidence of a burden I believe it's incon upon the governing uh body to take steps to minimize that burden and
here we have a land use conflict between the residential neighborhood and the Public Works which is a semi-industrial site with the noisy sounds and sites are associated with that operation which is necessary for the whole town I consider the landscape installation in that area
one of the best approaches one of the best responses we can provide for not just the neighborhood but everybody that goes through there and enjoys it and I'll last thing I'll say is that when we spend a public tax dollar wisely it
leverages private dollars which comes back to us if you want to say it this way in the form of included ratables which is just best practic bu how you how you allocate tax dollars and I don't think you should ditch any particular neighborhood either you want Landscaping
to be very harmonious and yeah to create the environment you you're doing that I just want to touch on that last point it comes back to us because we get more taxes from those residents well the r we get less taxes from other residents it's
a pizza pie that just is move the ram we don't we don't get more tax dollars just because the value of a home is higher on Maple Rue I'll say it this way then when you spend a public dollar well it leverages is private investment end
of I don't know what that and I um I think I I'm just on the record for disagreeing with some of that I don't think we need to get into it um is there anything else uh any other and thank you Steve very much any other
public comment I have an item for good to the bro I also have Mrs Fergus would you like to proceed or sure Mrs Ferguson Carolyn can hi everybody this is Carolyn Ferguson seven Colonial Court um I would
like to thank Steve and Tracy for their comments and I would like to Echo them um I think it's it is a problem when a residential neighborhood AB buts a different use and I think we have to consider that the people that live on
Maple their properties have been devalued um you know over the course of the last two years and I would really ask uh you guys to consider as you think about it please imagine that you live in one of those houses and take steps that
you would want to be taken if that was your home um I think we do have an obligation to help them restore the value that was lost in their houses um when that came down okay so you're talking about the Landscaping that came down you're talking about the 13 trees that came down so my response to that
that okay 15 20 I don't know the number but we're talking about the trees that came down and we can get that number um and make sure that it's accurate but you know I'm I'm not sure I agree that they've lost value in their homes in
fact when I stand on that street now and look at the building and the way that it looks versus how it looked two or three years ago I would I would make an argument that the value of their homes has increased and and you know I don't necessarily yes I think it's Our
obligation to restore it to what it was or better from a landscaping standpoint I don't think it's Our obligation to um have the entire town subsidize what I've called the Maple Avenue Botanical Gardens and I'm not just saying this on my own I've spoken to Residents that
live on that street that also think that this is a crazy investment to put this many plan things in a spot that that mostly just benefits the residents that are in that location there's not a single resident I don't think that lives on Maple Avenue that moved into their
house on that street when there wasn't a DPW there every single one of them moved into their house when there was already existing DPW so the idea that we've devalued their homes I disagree with we've vastly improveed the look and structure of that building we're we're going to make them just as whole if not
better from the Landscaping standpoint I I'm just Carolyn you know how much I respect you but I disagree with that statement yeah and I disagree with you we that's okay right um I've been over there and I've seen what it looks like it looks pretty terrible um you know
they were previously looking at mostly some sort of greenery even though it might not have been the best quality Greener um you know it did I'm not saying it took away half the value of their property but they probably have lost 20 or $30,000 of value um when
someone Compares their a house there to a house somewhere else we're we're also about to embark on Maple Avenue improvements where right now some of their neighbors have legal driveways in their front yards and we're do redoing their entire Street to make it um to
bring it up to code and and to make it uh more aesthetically pleasing I just you know at the end of this entire project that I want to make make it very very clear that this is a vast Improvement for Maple Avenue all around even if we were to decrease the Landscaping that was presented here it
would be a that Improvement so yes we agree to disagree and but I also mayor I just I just want to chime in here right we we have engaged with the residents on all sides of this continuous over the process we've had a fair and open process balancing resident engagement
with practicalities precedent setting right all of that and we will continue to do so right and and the building is the only thing that's done the the new fence is not in we're not saying not do any landscape like the new fence isn't there
the new Landscaping isn't in like it's it's it's not even done yet and so we will continue to work extremely closely and we got two emails from actually three emails from three different residents today uh who have been part of
this from an inclusive process so I just I just want to double down on that because every resident has been practical um if you recall when we got the original estimate for the Landscaping that was 66 I think the original es was $1 $150,000 M and everybody at that time
when we got the Landscaping this is going back two two and a half years so that's that's egregious why are we going to spend 150 Grand on Landscaping there can we achieve 90% of the effective that we're trying to do maybe we have to wait a little bit longer till matures and be more fiscally responsible that's how we
arrived at $67,000 from 10050 don't quote me on the exact value I got to look back and we're going to continue to follow that same exact fair and open process that's great thank you Carolyn wait I have one more issue um have you considered the timing of the planting
and the need to water and you know I speak to that from my experience with the Natural Area and the Third Street Trail yes um one thing we have found is we've tried to plant in the fall um the summer uh is very hard for new trees
we're follow we're following the direction from the professionals we had two windows one in the fall we're trying to hit the spring hence the the required Direction tonight in the in the presentation so we can maintain that okay is there a plan for
watering there's a plan in the in the in the the bid that was approved then you're getting into the operational management I'll refer to Chris on what the watering plan for the burrow is from an operational management perspective right and that what we'd have to engage with the professionals to term what water we need the species of plants are to develop and then we'd have to
coordinate that with DW okay just um you know we have planted in the Natural Area uh once or twice we planted you know good siiz trees in the spring and they died in the summer you know when we had a drought filled summer
so I think it's just something you have to be prepared and have a backup plan for 100% thank you very much Al is there anyone else no oh just one item um I don't know if everyone on the governing
body had a chance to see the email it came in from um a neighbor on Allen Christine obviously we've all been in close communication with really as many of the Neighbors in this area as possible um I think it was really only
an hour before the meeting so I understand if people did not but I thought I would just raise it here elevate it acknowledge that she sent an email that's full of a lot of important information it's clear to me in reading the email that um folks stressed it's
really it's it's it's been a lot living next to this particular piece of property um ongoingly never never mind now it's under construction so I just want to acknowledge the email was sent I don't know that was received and um I
think it's fair to say this is a temporary condition not just the construction but also what's going on at the recycle recycling center which um I think Chris I'm going look at you and say I believe we have cameras yes I
believe that we are actively identifying people who are abusing the recycling center um what she said if you had a chance to look at it I don't know I did okay so some of those voters clearly um look like people are abusing your Cycling Center which we're all aware of
um but we also know we have plans to remedy that and just to give an idea um you know I reviewed the email prior to coming to the meeting um she sent 6 o' yeah 556 it came in so just before
6 o'clock uh an email and she had several photos documented when some of those photos go back to Thanksgiving weekend um and um you know how full the area has gotten people throwing boxes over um we do have a camera system there Chief has access to it um I have called
the chief several times review times we've had complaints um I have reached out to Nick to have a meeting with him tomorrow to discuss another operations plan and maybe what we can do it seems like from those pictures majority of the overflows happening on weekends um or
when we have holidays and times off maybe a discussion I might have with Nick and again you know away with him do we maybe want to do something like other towns do maybe put a part-time employee there to to clean it out you know on the weekends and um and that way they get ahead of it during the week we don't see that the problems because we have dpws
there and they're clearing it out during the week most of those pictures happen to be long weekends or you know some generally busy weekends where we had you know for holidays and all of that so um that's a discussion I'm going to have with Nick tomorrow and and maybe that might be an option putting a part-time employe we we have had some part-time
employees some potential part-time employees reach out we be interested in it so we might have an option for it so um it is it was in talks um last actually two weeks ago before I left um for vacation um so we had been talking
about it these came in so we've kind of been a little bit ahead of it so I hope to put something together to remedy it can you ask him tomorrow when you talk to him whether it's um consistent every weekend or if the weekend right after the Wednesday pickup there's a lot less okay do you understand yep yep totally
get it so just two other antidotes one thing that's super helpful is when they put the sign there that says please put the carboard back in the rear because the minute someone drops a box the front it overflows and the other thing I just want to piggyback right is and this goes for everybody like not trying to have
like a halftime conversation but everybody's fatigued like Beyond Bel the professionals the residents everybody and so we we really need to come together we have three four months left to see it through see it right do it
correctly be extremely F fiscally responsible with it so I'm just asking like that email she sent in Wilson Rodriguez NES Patel right like like all these folks are like our boots on the ground when we're not there and let's just embrace it Empower it and just we're almost there I'm just asking for
everybody just to we're almost there one piece of it was that it's non-residents which is concerning too um and so I don't know how we addressed that as much I haven't looked at the signage recently but I don't know if we explicitly lay everything out as much as we can the
other piece is communication to at least our residents about breaking down boxes because that was like astounding to see so many boxes just not broken down at all just like full boxes so a piece on the communication side is at least get that out there remind
rul and she's and we have put that out in the past before as far breaking that box as well I know but it's clearly not but it might but it might also not be all the residents just I I definitely think contractors who are working on homes are taking their boxes from say
they've got 42 windows in a new house they're taking each one of those 42 boxes to our rec center no they need to leave with their materials it's not on the B Fair without without revealing Nam get into discussion there have been
businesses and other entities that have been called I'm not going to say names and everything because that and there's all new signage going in as part of the C yeah and and just to give you an idea of businesses um again uh a bunch of those businesses I actually went personally and spoke with them because that was um that was a complaint that
had come in about a month two months ago um about and those I spoke with those business owners as well that's hand so wion and they dropped off they were been attending for most of the
meting yeah they're all right um with uh that being said we're going to adjourn the time is 9:25 p.m. next council meeting is Monday February 24th I hope to see everyone there do I have do I have uh motion
toour motion toour all in favor anyone oppos thank you