Yes, we'll call the meeting to order. This is the uh regular meeting for meeting of the historic preservation uh commission. Adequate notice of the meeting has been given pursuant to the provisions of the open public meetings act at the time of the board reorganization in January of this year. The board adopted a regular meeting
schedule for the year. notice that the schedule was sent and was published to the Asbury Park Press on January 31st, 2025 into the Hube River Times on January 23rd, 2025. That notice was also posted on the Bolton board in Burough Hall and has remained continuously
posted there as is required by statute. A copy of the notice is and has been available to the public and is on file in the office of the burough clerk. A copy of the notice has also been sent to members of the public as have requested such information in accordance with the statute. adequate notice having been
having having been given the board secretary is directed to include this statement in the minutes of this meeting. Um can we get a roll call? >> Mr. Pava >> here. >> Mr. Drummond, >> Mr. Anderson, >> Mr. Schlutoter >> here.
>> Mr. Heler >> here. >> Mrs. Pora >> here. >> Mrs. Casey >> here. >> Mr. Smith >> here. >> Mrs. Forte >> here. >> Okay. Okay. So, since we're kind of moving things around a little bit, since some people may have to leave, I'll make
a motion that we approve the September minutes. >> Second. >> Okay. >> Uh, Mr. Pava, >> yes. >> Uh, Mr. Schlutter, >> yes. >> Mr. Heler, >> yes. >> Mrs. Pora, >> yes.
>> Okay. Um, so new business. Well, we don't really have any new business since we don't have any applications, but we'll go straight to the old business, which is uh Vics Centennial Hall and Fisk Chapel. >> You want to do those dates or you want to wait on >> Oh, yes. You did say that. I apologize.
We'll do the dates. So, go ahead. Let's do the dates if you have a calendar or >> So, I went through uh the calendar and tried to identify anything that I thought might be a potential conflict. Okay. Um,
I guess it looks like looking back at it, the only one that I saw was the Thursday uh re suggesting the Thursday, May 28th as a date because the council meeting is on the Tuesday the
26th because Memorial Day, >> Monday, I think the 25th is Memorial Day, right? >> Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So, the 28th be Thursday. And then other than that, everything else lined up the last uh or the fourth Tuesday of the month without any complex that I
saw. Do >> you want to go through those dates? Do you want to You want to do it right now? >> Sure. >> Yep. Okay. So, Jan would be January 27th, um February 24th, March 24th,
April 28th. We just said May 28th, June 23rd, July 28th, August 25th,
September 29th, >> uh 22nd. Sorry about that. um October 27th, November 24th, and uh December well December 29th. >> 2. >> No, 22nd.
>> Now, uh let me just look. Is that too close to the health or I >> mean no worse than the 20% on years past. I mean, >> yeah. I mean, the only other way would be maybe to try and do it like the week before. But
>> do you by a chance to know when um Thanksgiving is in November? >> November. Thanksgiving is the 26th. >> Okay. So, our meeting would be on November meeting. >> Yeah.
>> And then December uh Yeah. We'd be the Tuesday and Christmas on the 26th is I'm sorry in 2026 is on Friday the >> Yeah. I mean generally that's a light
month anyway. So >> yeah. >> Okay. >> So >> I guess I'll make a motion that we approve those dates subject to further review and conflict. >> I'll second that. Uh, Mr. Pavla, >> yes.
>> Mr. Schlitter, >> yes. >> Yes. >> Mrs. Pora, >> yes. >> Mrs. Casey, >> yes. >> Mr. Smith, >> yes. >> And Mr. Hamilton, >> yes. >> Okay. So, as I was saying before, the
main item that we have on old business is by Centennial Hall, Fisk Chapel. Uh when we were in attendance last month, it was brought to our attention that a council agenda item was going to be some
matters associated with this chapel, primarily the action items, but most importantly, uh the report back from Laura Irwin on the exterior paint color analysis and sort of a movement forward
as to a decision um or investigation as to what color was in store potentially for Infesta Chapel at that point. Uh since I was unable to attend that meeting, we nominated Steven Heler to
appear at that meeting and through reasons uh that aren't necessary to describe. I guess some of the council members were not uh privy to the fact that you were going to be there on behalf of the commission. Uh, so I understand that when that topic came up,
there were some questions asked and so um not much of interaction between yourself and um and the council members. Uh my apologies for that in terms of you being placed in an uncomfortable position. Hopefully it wasn't too bad. We kid about it a little bit off the
record. Uh however, um I'd like you to initially tell us, you know, not necessarily I don't want to know bad things or what happened procedurally, but just tell us what uh what happened, what your recollection was and uh and what went on reporting back to the commission as to your interaction and
what you found out. >> Sure. Um I'll talk about what the my intent was representing us uh and what my take takeaways were and I think Elise was there at least during the discussion, right? you were sitting in the audience but I attended um as a
leazison I announced that but I wasn't permitted to participate so I didn't have any participation at all in the disc in the workshop um but I'll leave that aside >> what do you mean we're not how how did that manifest itself >> I raised my hand to ask a question why I
first told Chris ever here for the representing the commission as a leazison where should I sit he said it's fine to sit in the audience you can participate from there and then it works shop began and I I had a pretty quick question and I raised my hand to ask a
question but the mayor said you have to wait till public discussion. >> Was there anybody else that was in the audience that was a designate or representative of any other commission that was interacting with with them at that time? >> Was there any question and answering going on before the public portion?
>> No. >> Okay. other than the workshop, other than the council. Yeah. >> And by the time uh >> so I I tried to intervene, I tried to ask the question twice and I was told by the mayor, no, you you're public. And uh but when the workshop was over, Laura
left. So there was no opportunity and I ran out at all and asked her questions about could she provide a certain amount of information. She was very uh pleased to say, "Yeah, I could do that." then it had to come from from Fair Haven rather than from me. She wanted to know who did
I represent. Was I on the was I on the uh historic association or was it on the commission? I said I was on the commission. They voted and said I'm here as a but that was that's that's passed now. Um but uh my intent as a liaison was uh two things to understand the
paint color chronology if if somebody had it through documentation. I think our purpose is to pick the most authentic color that we have reasonably documented and documentation usually means you got some kind of original reference to have
something to go back to. And uh the way I did that, I was simply going to ask, give us what you know about the colors of this chapel from its inception in 1882 to 1974. Doesn't really matter what was it what color it is after 1974 because it it wasn't owned by the
congregation any longer. And uh the second part of that question and for which eras of its existence do we not really know? You know, so what do we know? What do we don't know? Um >> both are valid questions. >> Yeah. And then and then if we have enough that information like that with
high probability we could probably identify the authentic color for 19th century Frisk Chapel. Um the second and uh my thoughts was if they had positive documentation of these questions that might be enough to authenticate
consultants recommendation but we're not there for just the recommendation we're there for the authentification of the recommendation. And then the third the second the third question was just to inquire as to the value of pain analysis because I didn't know if they had done it or if they hadn't done it and they
hadn't done it. We were previously told at this meeting that they would be asked to do it. So I didn't know what happened between then and this. So my key takeaways were um first of all I did not receive any of these materials. So I didn't know what council had. I couldn't
hear everything was going on. And when you say these materials, you're referring to primarily the September 19th, 2025 leather report from Laura Burwin from the Goldstein. >> I don't know when I I didn't receive any materials involved, so I don't know what council had, but they were talking about
pictures and documents. I'm assuming this was it. >> But you were provided with a copy of this and so putting two and two together. Does it seem as though the testimony that was offered by Miss Berwin was consistent with what's contained in the September 9th document. So if you look closely at the document,
you'll see where she got what she presented. So she was 90% confident that the primary color you realized during the early Fisk Chapel history was white. Right. But that's that's the first one. Um at least did you take that away? That's >> that was Yes.
>> Okay. Um she had period photographs though I didn't hear dates in which the chapel was white and those photographs are in here and they're still not dated and they're still not referenced. Um, and she and so that was one one piece of evidence. She studied different exterior
boards on the chapel and said the earliest layers were white and she couldn't see anything below them that wasn't white. I said that was her second piece. And she also noted that other research supported the trend of white churches at the time.
Those are some of the things I recall. Um, council would initially seem satisfied with the rigor related to selecting white, but after a council member had a question about was there a pain analysis done, there was a there was another whole new conversation and I
took away that they wanted to understand the cost and value of a pain analysis. Um, and several members said uh that they wanted to make the right decision on color, but waiting and that waiting to do so should not delay restoration works. that are saying
color if we're not going to say this is going to be it it should not the restoration should go on all the other work that's planned should go on because the color going to be figured out in the next couple weeks or some period of time that so it left it was left indefinite
um >> but it but the the gestalt was white but we're not quite sure this this is we want to make sure they're doing it right a couple people were doing >> would you give any uh explanation for the 10% % that possibly she believed may
have not may have not been white or would >> she didn't say that there was a percent not being red. She said, "I'm 95% confident, right?" The either she said, "Probability is that it was white or it's her confidence." And >> yeah. Was there any discussion about the
green color and about any analysis that had previously been done years ago arriving? >> No discussion about the green color that I recall. Did you? >> Um, not to the end. when I called in um towards the end of the meeting, I just I
asked if they were taking into consideration Pat Drummond's old research. >> Oh yes, that there was a question back then. And what was the response? Would they take that into consideration? >> Yeah, they said yeah, we could provide it. Um >> I mean obviously and um the issue is uh
the research because it was done in the 1990s. Um, there's been reference to a paint color analysis that's been done, but I don't know that there's I know that I've never seen anything. I've never seen any document. We don't really recall who that person was.
>> And so I don't know what we have to support that green color, >> a different color. But we um and I don't know if it was there was a there was in the report in one of these in one of the documents here uh reference to
uh Mark Alexander Pav Ocean Grove who did a f chapel restoration project in 2010 and it was a called a chapel preservation project action plan and it was related in some way. Was there a celebration in 2017 like a 100th
anniversary? Um I don't recall uh 2017 doesn't happen so well. >> Yeah, we've got 2012 and and that that 2010 project incorporated prior preservation plans from 2000 to 2005. >> Yeah. And the goal was uh historic
authenticity and appropriate colors, but it didn't say anything about color analysis. >> Right. That document was also provided that kind of stuff and then was uh updated in 2010. I looked at it again as well like to see if there was any guidance with regard to color and there is not.
>> And you start to say something about >> Yeah. two things. Um one is a bigger question. Um when we had our meeting here the last meeting we had in September I thought the consensus was that this body would have some sort of advisory opinion
on the color and it was even if it wasn't even if we're not the final decision makers that we the HPC would author an opinion and then that's how um Tracy had made the suggestion a good suggestion that we had one representative and that's how Steve was
there Um, was that brought up that way? Wasn't there? >> No. No. Was was the question brought up? Um, HP Steam, can you go back to the HPC and you come back to us with any research you have? Was it sort of a two-way workshop where they were
>> No, I wasn't I didn't participate at all. I was not allowed to say anything. >> But at any point did the council say we should get what the H we should see if the HBC has any opinion on this? I did stand up during the public session just to explain again and I told the mayor I
apologize and then I and I just told them what the two questions were going to be which weren't answered at the meeting and um >> by that time per >> and she had she had left and she was very you know I talked to her in she said yeah you guys would ever need but
nobody asked her about the commission. So, uh, when it was brought to our attention, uh, last meeting, again, we weren't certain how far along the process was. Um, >> it was at least our belief that it was the initial report back from Miss
Burwin, not knowing what a timeline had been. I know that, uh, Tracy Cole, council person Cole is on the Zoom meeting. uh she probably has some insight as to what the timing is of it and where that currently sits with
regard to the council. I don't know whether you can chime in Tracy on that. >> Sure. Hi Art. Hi everyone. Um first Steve, I'd like to also acknowledge I think that was a pretty uncomfortable position you must have
been in and um I took steps to make sure that wouldn't happen to you. Um, immediately following our Thursday evening meeting, there was a ribbon cutting at DPW where um, I reviewed explicitly what HPC had planned and that
you would be in attendance. Frankly, then I got on the road for a long car ride up to Newport to see my daughter. And in understanding what has transpired, I really moving forward will now always put that in an email because
persons I spoke to seem to have forgotten when you were present at the council meeting. It just seemed to have not been uh it just went out of his head. So um I'm sorry that happened to you. Obviously, you know, I take this process
seriously and I took the steps to make sure you would be um in a better positioned. That said, you know, the mayor runs the meeting and it is during workshop that's typically um council deliberations. He has a
prerogative to open it to the public. usually doesn't, but um the the upshot is all the documents that the council reviewed that night, you now have. Um that was an important
step I wanted to make sure that you you received that. And to Katie's point, um importantly, the memorandum sent and I'm going to say it may have been in August. correct me if I'm wrong or or Sheila
um does you know put into formal language you anticipate an advisory role and that your comments recommendations and analysis will be made available to council and that's been acknowledged and it and and it is in alignment with our
local ordinances you do have jurisdiction over the exterior of the building it's in the historic district so um Katie to your point we've kind of you know, if you want to use this plug that hole that's established. So, if that gives you a little bit of a re reassurance,
um I do regret not being there for that meeting on September 30th. I think couldn't be helped. It's one the only meeting I've missed unfortunately. So, but are you asked about timing and Yeah. So this is brought forward um
perhaps maybe slightly premature meaning it not it's not all fully baked. The council reviewed it once in a workshop format which is typically the way these things roll out and then um I think the sooner this body weighs in
the better. That said, you don't want to rush it, right? If you're if you're having a process, then we can advise the council that that process is ongoing. Not to drag it out, but to just communicate us to should you choose to do that, of course, that's entirely your
choice. Um but the architect Laura Berwin's work among the discussion around the bsentennial hall color is also a list of work items that you all have in front of
you. That's a piece that she's still working on that I encourage you to look at, weigh in on, and see if there's any work items that you feel may be added or discussed. There's a couple things I can see that it would be good for this
commission to discuss. I'm interested in your thoughts on it. And I know we have a damaged stained glass window that isn't on here, for example. So, in addition to the paint color, there is this piece of work. Um, but this still has to be completed.
Um, your thoughts are part of how it gets completed. And then also Laura's work is to really finish the scope of work and then draft it in the form that such that it can live within a um a bid document that will then get put out. So there's sever there's at least two steps
that the council still has to take. And I would suggest that those are probably two separate meetings. Could it get slammed into one meeting? I'll be honest with you. I suppose so. But I do believe that that the council would honor your contributions in terms of the work the
punch list items and be interested thoughts >> on the I'm sorry. I didn't know. >> No, go right ahead. >> I was going to say with regard to the other items in the scope of work which is contained on the September 19th 25
report from Laura Berwin. Um and this goes out to you too as well. Is there any discussion as to that in terms of prioritizing these things? Um, >> no, it was a workshop one. >> So, it was really, so there was really there's what what's the status of these other items that Laura has re Miss
Berwin has recommended? Um, mechanical, electrical, civil work, uh, architectural work and interior. Is that something that is being prioritized and addressed or you did kind of say that it's still a work in progress? >> Yes.
And the painting of bsentennial hall is part of this. >> I understand. But I mean exclusive of the paint these other items you say you want us to sort of weigh in on which I understand. But what is the status of are of those things? Are they planning on making a decision at the next meeting
or where are we at sort of timing and procedurally with these other work items? >> I could do my best to find out. I would be surprised if Laura has it finalized for the next meeting. Um, but let me see if I can find that out for you. I know that and because I followed up with the
all the players and her work is not done. Um, and that sometimes is all you get from government. I I'm so sorry to say that because I'd love to be able, you know, it's items of work and uh all of the things obviously are very valid that
look like they're deficiencies. Uh but to be quite frank for us, I mean unless there's any items to add to it, but without really physically looking at the document or talking to anybody that's been physically looking at the structure rather, it's kind of hard to either uh add to it or prioritize these things. Uh
you know, obviously the structural things and the things that are going to lead to further deterioration would be the pri primary things to address, but it's kind of hard for us to make any kind of recommendations in that respect. Um, you did mention that there's some other things that you think needed to be
added. Um, I think you mentioned a stained glass window. What are those things? >> Yeah. Um, and if this helps at all, it doesn't need to pri be prioritized. All this work will happen. So, this is will all get bundled in a bid document and go
out to bid. The intention is to complete all of the maintenance items in this next wave of work repair slashmaintenance. Um, so there's no need to prioritize it. I think we're just looking to make sure
it's complete. And if if it helps, I can also ask um if Laura can come to a commission meeting. >> Yeah, that would be that would be excellent. If she could possibly do that, >> I will ask. Uh, and we're going to get
back to the color, but the the only thing about that list, I mean, a core question is simply, um, is there anything we're doing on that list at all that changes material or structure of the exterior of the building? And if there's anything like
moving a window, you take down a chain, which I think they're going to do for for an historical perspective. We just want we want to know if the structure for the material is changing, >> of course. Yeah. And it does, but looking at it, it looks um I mean the only thing that really jumped out at me
because the masonary chimney is not observable from the street. >> And I think that that's kind of a you even noticed that when I was looking at the 2010 action plan, that's something that was raised back then. So that's been happening for a while. Obviously, the removal uh
rather the sub siding trim base flashing repair um repair of the front porch columns and also replacement of windows would be things that will fit into those categories. So, yeah, clearly those things we want to weigh in on. And just to add to this and just so we can kind
of get a full picture, I do understand and maybe at least you can chime in on this too. I understand that there was a in an interim or interval meeting between the uh the historic association addressing these same issues or considering them and there was a
decision made by the association to um I guess outlay a certain amount of funds and maybe to try to find somebody to do uh either a complimentary or comparative analysis of paint color. Tell us about that. Yeah. So, one of the three things
that I brought up um during the end of the last council meeting was could we provide Patreon's research, which just to update you guys, we cannot locate and we cannot find as of yet, but who know I mean I'm still actively looking. It
might turn up, but as of right now, we can't find any of the prior research that she did. Um and then the two other things I had asked was when if they had any idea when the final final decision would be made whether it's green or white and what shade and they you know
no answer to that either but um the final thing I did ask is that if the you know hypothetically if the association wanted to fund another analysis could we provide that and would they consider it um which initially was uh shot down um
>> shut down >> shut It was just um saying that it would potentially be denied. Who who shot that? Um Mayor Halpern. >> And did he give any kind of reason why? >> Um no, not not that I can recall. >> They generally didn't want to spend any
money on anything >> which I I flawed fiscal responsibility and I understand that >> which Yeah. So, um, but then in our last board meeting, we discussed it and the we moved to,
you know, look into what that maybe would cost and something that we would like to maybe consider depending on how quotes. And so, next step would kind of be that, finding out how much an analysis would be and then depending on what those numbers are, bring it back to
the board and and go from there. >> Okay. So, I mean, what's the thought? The thought was to as long as it's not cost prohibitive to look into doing that. And has there been any uh has have you found out anybody to perform that and any kind of ideas to cause? >> No, not yet.
>> Um what do you think the horizon is on that? Where do you think that decision will be made? >> Yeah, go ahead. Um I independently because I wanted to just understand the pain system and and I connected with someone
about the pain analysis and the woman's name is Dorothy Passer and she's a director in this building conservation associates and it's a national firm. They specialize in material science and explan. I was just trying to learn what are the
key points about the paint because I um if we can get the sort of the chronology down and just say how confident be that it's that it's authentic or is some reference you might have enough stuff now. But she did bring up something. And um she said the selecting of the samples
for the paint analysis is really critical because there's a a lot of chemical and physical degradation and it changes the structure of the wood and therefore her main point was the experience matters in these things because things are missed with the naked eye. And one of the key
uh I think one of the things that was impressive that Laur said or at least impressed people was I I ran looked at all the boards and I looked at the cross section and I just saw a white and I didn't see anything below the white. Um, and this person said that doesn't mean
this all boards because between the pigment and whatever whatever is used to seal the pigment, it degrades, changes colors, it does all kinds of things. But and they and they basically take samples and uh they do various kinds of imaging, chemical analysis. She sent me some
papers wanted if you wanted to learn any work at it. Um, >> where are they located? I mean, >> no, she's in Philadelphia. They're in New York. They're in Washington. They were very well infirmed to buy a historical building. Would they physically perform a visit or would they want to send them be taken and sent? >> No, they would have to they would have
to perform. So I asked her said so you know what would it cost if we don't have any money and uh um she they have a she said we have to come we have to look at the building and s and decide where the best samples come from. It would take about 8 to 10 samples, but she would
send an intern from Penn who's a he's a science major and she graduate intern from Penn who's been working with him for about a year. She was trying to said give me give it best price she could come up with. So this this is not a contract. I was not negotiating right >> but she said they would reduce the cost
by by using this experienced pen intern to take the sample. So literally the time to drive out here you didn't use this intern cost you $500 just to show up. Um, and what they would provide to keep it reasonable is a memo style report with an explanation of the
findings including including promo chronology if it's possible. The other thing they do is if they find a color, they give you a match to to a couple current uh paint companies that have a color that might be close to that. So they they find colors and they tell you
what paint color you should use. And she said it would she would oversee it. She's the director of that regional office and it'll be $1,200 to $1,500. >> Yeah, >> that's way less than it'll normally do. I mean, if people were buying more stuff and then this is sort of cut down, you
want to know what the color was if we figured it out. >> It's a very narrow, you know, color probably. I mean, I guess it would be like multiple colors too. That's what their plan would be to show all the colors that that scientist they use all kinds of imaging spectrum
and something you were going to say. >> Yeah. I just want to offer just two things. Number one, I was also struck that the Goldstein partnership memo just has a sentence in there and says, "We observed and we only saw white." And what Steve just said is consistent with
the research that I also did with the um Susan B. Anthony color um um researchers as well as this organization in Rhode Island and you went a lot further than I did, but they all said the same thing. The process is exactly as you stated. Um
and number two is is the flow that the mayor said no to the burrows spending the money. Um that yes would do you guys both uh do you would the bureau have any funds available which was pretty much a no and
then if the historic association was willing to fund it could we provide that to you and so it see here's where my logic is that was a no here's where my logic is going initially my logic is going we have some time we don't want to wait too long like Tracy said do
research and it seems like Steve's given us an option for conducting our own research Arch could the board fund just fund this research independent of what the council is so you know what I'm
not I'm not a rebel but that's the idea so if we fund it and then we say hey dear council here's what we learned this is a research that we did thank you to the um historic association for funding it this is what we learned they still have the jurisdiction to make a decision
but then we've I I think it actually comes in a different way. I think that um we maybe take it to motion and vote and we could even do that tonight assuming that they're going to >> um that you got that the com that the association is going to do this whether or not we would work with the association to do this research and then
not necessarily incorporate their findings or decide on their findings but take it into account as opposed to what was I think somewhat cursory analysis done by Ms. Berwin. Um, and just see if it makes sense and I guess take into consideration any other evidence that
might uh come about uh between now and then, you know, maybe support even screen color if any of these old reports come about as well. So, I don't know and I everybody might already know this and I apologize my naivity if so. So, on the NJ.gov there was apparently a grant
awarded in 2004, right? I I that's what this says. And it's I I I actually emailed it to the to the group. I just replied to to Sheila's latest email and it said so it says that in 2004 there was a $227,000
grant by the state garden state historic preservation fund. And it said the trust grant helped fund structural stabilization and some exterior restoration including the painting of the clapboard and trim in historically appropriate colors. And there's a really shiny green
color picture of of Fist Chapel that looks like it's freshly painted. Was it painted in 2004? >> Yeah, about that. Yeah. >> So, I mean, is that the only indication we have of green? >> No, I think 1990s there was a uh analysis that was
done >> and that's when they decided let's paint it green in 2004. >> Yeah. But um I don't know of anybody again getting back to it. It's been referenced as some type of a scientific study and that is the color that apparently was based on some type of
samples of paint that were identified. How and where those samples were identified and what process went into that. We don't know. And again, even though there's been reference to this scientific study, I've never seen it nor I've ever talked to anybody that's ever seen it. I know Pat Drummond has mentioned it, but she's really not gone
into any kind of detail other than to describe it as pretty thorough. >> You can't locate it. And there's one newspaper article that I found complicated. >> There is one newspaper article after when the grant was when they're about to paint which reference the names of the people that >> were contracted to do the paint
research. >> Oh, >> I have I'll find it was I'll find that article. It was the only in because maybe those people still lost data. >> The historic pink people keep these things >> and there are references to to color in
the uh nomination form or at the national register but it seems like I think somebody gave >> it so I can reach out to to you. It says the building is white platform, but that was when it I believe that's when it was
five. That was the 1976 or whatever. And then it was white. >> It says the building has an exterior whiteboard. That's the description of the building. >> They reference it all time this in this 1970s application. They say white everywhere. >> Yeah. >> I I just want to share I found a very
interesting article which I shared with Steve about what white meant in the 1800s. And it's hard to bring up because of connectivity here. Um, but it said that, oh, here we go. The whites actually were not pure whites like we we discussed
them today. They had um there was no such thing as a pure bright white. They were they had fillers which often led to an off-white yellowish tinge. So, so, >> you know, the reason I bring this up is
I heard um I heard someone once mention there's Fair Haven White. >> Yeah. >> And we have talked just in terms of uh it's nice to drive down Cedar Avenue and your head swivels and you say, "What
is that building? It doesn't look like other buildings in Fair Haven." And that's the first the first step that people have to realizing there's an important historical building in in town is that and of course then it's filed why does it look like the way that it's awful. So, um I just in addition to us
voting hopefully to approve the with color selection, if it did go to a coat of white, it I think it needs to be a historical white that when people drive down Cedar Avenue, it looks like a historical building. Simple as that.
>> Okay. So I'm actually I have uh at least have a copy of the Gabriel book and so in that on page 83 um and 83 83 through 85 there's a couple photographs of 1975 when it was moved and you can see what the structure looked like beforehand. It
was some form of white. I don't know whether it's fair white or something but it looks like it was white. It's obviously a black and white image. very difficult to tell and you know was in a state of deterioration. Then it was repainted clearly in 1976 looking pretty
new that appears on page 84 and that's probably um 1976. So probably that information that's contained in that document, the document to get it registered and the other uh request for the grant is probably based on what the
color was at that point when people were looking for >> something that Laura could help us with. I hope I don't believe we asked the question. And I was going to ask if she could provide us with the chronology, her best understanding of colors, of the
eras of color. If it was white, if somebody thinks it was white from 1883 on, she would say, "We have good reason to believe it was white in the 19th century and then it was white in the 20th century and we wouldn't have to do anything else." Well,
>> but again, I have but I haven't seen any documentation of that and it would be good to know. um what we know and don't know, they might be able to fill in some blanks, >> right? Well, I mean, uh you would think that they're going to come come up with
some type of conclusion if they do this analysis. Um >> what that conclusion is? >> Well, I mean, if it's inconclusive, then what evidence do we have? We have a bunch of photos, some of which are seemingly old, although a couple of the photos that are attached in the Burwin
report are actually consistent with what is depicted in the Gabriella book, which looks like it's around 1976. So, I don't know how old these photos are, except for the one on the bottom left. But even though that may be cursory evidence, what do you have to
support the green? >> What What is there? There's nothing. I suspect houses at least part of it will support the white might get you might get the dating back >> for the for our friends from records. This is an African-American church that
was built in 1882 and there there were just a lot of questions about how they chose the color and there was a different perception of colors in African-American churches at that time as you can imagine you know not too long after reconstruction. What is the um
does anybody know what the uh position is of the congregation? Does anybody what do they say? >> So I asked quite a number of them at a lunch in there and I don't want to misspeak but I got the sense that was there so many other
things they're trying to deal with right now that color of this chapel is last on the list. I actually asked Mrs. Blake who's 107 years old. She's the oldest living member who actually worshiped there and of course doesn't remember. Um
Melanie Woods thinks it was she recalls it as white. They they may recall it as white in the 30s 40s 50s60s but that doesn't mean that it was in the late 1800s. I would be curious to know that
when the association made the decision to paint it, >> given that everything showed it was white, the Gabriella book was white, white, did they all did someone come up to them and go, "We're about to tell you something. I'll knock your socks off. It's actually green." Like I'm just
curious about how that process or something made them decide in in 1990. >> Yeah. I think they got something say wow we need to we need to pivot on this color something they gave them confidence that's what they did the
analysis that's what they found and it was surprising that they found the green >> yeah so you have to understand also that at that point there wasn't that much enthusiasm to maintain the structure there was discussions as to demolishing it selling the property >> um and and the burrow wasn't really that
supportive of anything uh really to preserve the building as a result of the association and raising the amount of money. um it was preserved and uh I think it was really Pat who at that point you know saw to it or she was one of the people was before my time that
saw to it that this paint analysis was done and she was absolutely convinced and I don't know that she made it and I wish she was here to discuss it but uh didn't make it a condition but sort of said you know we're going to well grant this money that we raised for
bysentennial hall but we better have this painted green guess this is the original authentic color and I think that was the way it was really decided and I just don't think that there was any any opposition by anybody. they were just happy to get a free paint job and you know the building obviously although
it would look materially different would it need to paint very badly and so that's why that was done um and I think that you know it was probably done halfhazardly at that point and I think that's outlined in the um have live report that that was
show deterioration I think we've all seen that that it's pretty was not >> you know and I've mentioned here before I've when I visited Richmond historic Richmond a village in Staten Island. I felt like I was in the middle of this cactus cuz all kinds of shades of green,
not that vivid green, >> right? >> Almost like a mustardy green. So, for 1800's buildings, so >> Tracy, we we were uh with you before and we just kind of diverged a little bit. Uh do you have anything to offer on any of on this component of our conversation
about paint color and analysis? Um, I I respect the discussion and I I I think I also want to just acknowledge that uh that this body has a right to be heard on this issue and that's been my
position with my other my other colleagues on council and with the staff and and I've got agreement with that. Um, I know it can feel a little uncomfortable right now because of the way that meeting played out on the 30th and I'm going to request that either Laura can attend or perhaps just even
briefly zoom in. Um, of course someone's going to say if that costs money, you know, we can't do that. Uh, but let me see where that goes. I guess one of the questions I would have for you, Mr. chairman is would the commission I if if
there's a time sensitive if there's a time constraint >> um would you be willing to hold a special meeting to to make that happen? >> Yeah, we could possibly do that if it becomes an issue if it if it becomes
sort of like a situation where a decision was made because we didn't have a scheduled meeting. I think everybody would be of the mindset that it's important enough for us to weigh in on it that we will be willing to do that. At least I can say that. I don't think that anybody has any opposition to it. Um
>> I just want to have it in the back, you know, should it become necessary in my discussions. So, um >> and I'm the discomfort or I'm not worried about that at all. I don't think anybody on the commission is worried about that. I think really our desire
and our focus would be to get it right. And I think that, you know, anybody that looks at the Derwin, and I mean this without any disrespect whatsoever, but it's clearly not a scientific analysis. There's a bit of guesswork there, um, I don't want to say it's pre-ordained, but there just was, uh, some photos, uh,
there was no evidence to the contrary, so we think it's white, I think. And even if there was a 90%, you know, certainty factor, this other scientific analysis may give us some insight as to that 10%. And I would think that Miss Berlin would want to get it right, too. And so she's presented with some
additional evidence. She could just wave with whatever she's done. And I would think that, you know, the c it would behoove the council, Miss Berwin, and any of us to not do it right. And any, you know, the only thing I could think of that, you know, would be a cost to the burrow, which would be dimminimous,
would be the time that Miss Burwin would spend either coming here or uh sort of contradicting or embracing whatever the separate analysis would be. you know, she obviously was she's on the hour. She would spend time on it. But I I think I
don't it's not like we're requesting that burrow foot the bill. I think, you know, very gracious that the association is willing to do it. It doesn't seem like it's an extraordinary amount of money. And for what you ideally, if you get this issue settled, it's well worth
it. So, I think it's, you know, um I'm certainly willing to put it up for a vote tonight to to have us work with them to get this done. I think one of the things might be an issue though if uh you know the the association may not have its decisions made they may have to
have a special meeting too to make these determinations. >> So I don't know whether that will happen but you know again we will be willing to work with you. You have the budget we don't and so we're kind of it's kind of contingent on um on the association slides to do. Another uh question to
Steve is did they give you a time frame as to how long this process takes once they're here doing the sample? >> Um I think it was a couple weeks >> and they would per they would provide some would they provide like a preliminary report. >> They they would provide a what they do they would do the work and they would
provide a memo type report. >> Okay. Because I was say like that could zoom in you know maybe we would have some questions beyond just a memo report. I mean, ideally, if we had a memo report and had that person and Miss Burwin part
of the meeting, I think we'd have all questions answered, >> right? Um, you would have to tell me. >> Oh, so this you would approach her informally or formally once this once this director gets involved in time. So, she shows up for an hour meeting,
she charges. >> Yeah. No, I get that. Well, let let me let me um do do what I do on my side in terms of the burrow's professional and which is Laura in this instance. And then if I could suggest um Steve, I believe you do have at least one vendor
who could could you give that contact information to at least that way the historic association could take steps to get a quote and get something scheduled and get that piece started. At least you did say that you had identified that
other that other group as well that was >> Yeah, I can reach out to them. >> We don't know if they're even around or anything. >> Um I think they are still around. The woman that Pat had worked with I think has some but >> um >> so do we have two? Is that what I'm hearing?
>> Yeah. Um what's the name of that? >> I want it's someone something. Um the name is escaping the right. >> Okay. Maybe um >> but I have I have it written down dining hall. >> Okay. If it's provided to them. >> Okay.
>> And what Steve, what's the name of your company? >> The company called It's not my company. I have no association. They were referred by another uh historic person and highly recommend it, but I I haven't done them at all. It's the dire
building conservation associates um BCA. >> Okay. She's at a Philadelphia office and the woman's name, she runs that office. Her name is Darothy Croatzer. I can send it to you with contact information if you'd like. She also provided, like I
said, a a journal article on pain analysis and all the issues to do with it and two examples of what of what they did. I think one was a church, one was one was a memo, a short example, and the other was a full example. You can see the difference in that $1,000 versus
$5,000. I use small crosser. >> Okay. R O T Z E R. >> Okay. Anything else on this uh from the association? When are you guys meeting again? And do you expect this to come up?
>> Yeah, this will Yeah, this will come up. Our next meeting is until November 20th. >> November 20th. Got it. So, Elise, at the last board meeting, which I was not at, was the vote to proceed with this or to think about it? No. To proceed to get votes and see how
much it would be? >> Oh, okay. So, we're right in line. Yeah. We didn't Yeah, we didn't we 105, whatever. We Yeah, brain to go find out how much it would potentially be. >> So, we're all kind of chicken and here a little bit, but it sounds like the
timeline is very in sync then. >> Yeah. Look, and I think um do you need to have a particular group? In other words, you could bring it to a vote um this building construction associ um
would you oppose them as being, you know, you got to get a little bit more information as to how much and maybe get an itemized bill as to what it would cost so that you could take it to a vote or would you just approve a certain budget that would ideally cover their costs as Steve has mentioned it cost? Um
that's something that may yeah the executives that I could discuss. >> And how if at all would this you know reaching out to this other company say you know they do it for 1250. >> Yeah. You mean deciding between the two? >> Exactly.
>> Um something we're going to have to also take a look at and see. I mean at this point we just we want it >> definitely looked at and done. I'll send you everything I have from her and >> I maybe I'll send you the the reference
the person who referred them to me said they really do a lot of historical work in Washington in New York the credibility pretty obvious. >> Yeah. >> All right. Um >> I have just one Oh, sorry. >> Go ahead. I I have just one thought and
and I don't know if I think I've said this to somebody or at least one person out loud, but I think it would be very interesting. I know we're talking about green, we're talking about white, but um you know, it's possible that that building was
more was many colors over the years, maybe not just green or white. And um it would be kind of exciting if the paint analysis were able to give us I think Steve mentioned it as a chronology as a chronology is a story and we could round
out those paint decisions with narrative sort of as a timeline and and the story of this decision process we'll call it the process that is you know is still an interesting part of the historical narrative and has value in
and of its own in its own Right. And I just wanted to throw that out there understanding that um you know whatever color it ends up being it's all a very rich and interesting historical story u part of fair's
historic fabric and I'm glad that this particular group of people is invested in getting all the information. I think that's a nice thing for the community for many many many years to come. Great. Um, I will make a motion that um
this commission um work with the historic association and their offer to secure a scientific paint analysis um to further determine and to
supplement the proofs that have already been submitted to identify the origin and original paint color history of Pisk. channel second. Okay. >> Mr. Pav, >> yes.
>> Mr. Schlutoter, >> yes. >> Mr. Heler, >> yes. >> Mrs. Fora, >> yes. >> Mrs. Casey, >> yes. >> Mr. Smith, >> yes. >> Mrs. Forte, >> yes. >> And I deliberately left that very vague because, you know, there's a lot of moving parts and I don't want to limit it. But obviously I would think that you
know if you guys if based on your discussions you decided that you thought that one of these other people are more qualified. Um you know you're in the association's desire is pretty consistent with what our desire is. So you know we would you know obviously have to abide by whatever that decision
I would think that maybe would be um a joint collaborative decision but we may not have time on that. So we'll have to figure that out. >> I I think I have to get going. Um, is that okay? It doesn't Yeah. >> Any more any more votes anticipated or
No, not that I can. >> Right. Well, thanks. I I'll get filmed in by you, too. Thanks, Steve. >> All right. Thanks. Thanks. Have a good day. Take care. >> All right. Anything else on Centennial Hall or Chaplain? Um,
Tracy, anyone? >> Um, I do. Um, so just to recap my takeaways, I'm going to pursue uh professional attendance at one of your meetings even though that's a special meeting. Um, and I am going to um try to get a sense of the workflow and
understand we want to make sure the cadence at the meetings doesn't leave HPC or historic association out of the process. >> Yeah. And if it becomes an urgent item and we do need to meet, you know, to bring up the point mentioned before and we do need to meet, we will do that. Um,
>> yeah, >> doesn't seem urgent now, but you know, these things sometimes develop and you never really know. >> Well, I do track it closely. Um, >> that said, even even with even with my diligence, things do, you know, I feel
like it slipped a little. Um, I would like to see the commission spend a minute on the list of work items in particular. I'll just jump in and say I'm interested in your thoughts on storm wows. I'm not sure specifically what
Laura is suggesting here, but can can you discuss that? It's under architectural work includes and the exterior section. >> Yeah, I'm looking at it right now. I mean, obviously that was going to be item that uh Stephen brought up and I mentioned as well that clearly would um
affect the exterior of the structure. Um it's something that we pay particular attention to in applications and you know we would clearly pay attention to here, but it's very hard because it's just sort of a concept item window
repair and installation of storm windows. I don't know whether that then is relating back to what's contained in the Padlive report which you know from 15 years ago whether they're even talking about the same windows. Um so obviously we would want to have a role
in those in that window design and determination but I can't envision that a decision would be made in that regard that wouldn't involve this commission. >> She's you know again this is a concept. I don't think she's making any decision. I would suspect that whatever she's
offering since it's a historical restoration, they would be period correct uh you know windows and you know not what we jump to thinking of when we think of storm windows. >> Yeah.
>> Well, I think this Oh, sorry, Jeff. >> I don't go ahead. Uh I I think that that um illuminates the point you were making earlier or maybe I made it about this being a work in progress. It's obviously still has to
get much more specific in order for it to live in a set of bid documents. But um prior to it getting flushed out and inserted in bid documents, this body should have an opportunity to review the recommendations.
Tracy, where are the The only windows I'm aware of at this are the stained glass windows. Which ones would get storm windows that behind the stained glass? Are there other windows that have storm windows? >> Well, Katie, that's a good question. I mean, I have the same question really. I
think art and I think everybody does. I don't have that answer. I have what you guys have here. So >> unless it might have just been a generic this is what we do but but I can't imagine putting storm windows behind those spin
glass right >> unless there are other windows in the back of the building >> but do kitchen windows you mean? >> Yeah. You could do interior storms on the uh the stained glass windows or you
could make storm panels to fit over the stained glass windows on the outside, but they'd have to be, you know, historically correct, but they in the old days they would do exterior storm windows. old days being
>> long before I was >> but I mean in 1950s you know like 40s >> 20s. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Like when they started doing stuff like that >> and it's regular glass that's over the stained glass. >> Yeah. Just a pan of glass in a wooden
frame. >> So they create a dual be. >> Yeah. >> I guess we'll find out. Yeah, I mean you have to provide some detail. >> I mean yeah I mean the same can be said of on interior install acoustic panels. So this is
clearly just a rough draft an initial set of work items and I think at this stage we can if you want to put together a response to this it probably sounds you know I don't know put words in your mouth but we want if there's anything you think needs to be added even at this
rough draft stage I think it's a good idea to capture them now even if it's just to bring Laura's attention to it like we had a a pebble or something go through one of the stained glass windows on the north side that's I don't believe is accounted for here. Although generally window repair may obviously
capture it but um but then the second part of the memorandum may be memorandum may have to do with requiring specific information as to the you know period appropriateness and specifications for these work items.
>> So this is what I envision. So, a memorandum of action at memorializing our cooperation uh with the association and then also since it's going to be based on the November September 19th report of Laura Berwin identify the
things that are mentioned there and to the extent that they in any way affect the integrity of the structure that we be able to uh review uh once specific once specifications for features are provided.
and that uh the council consider the preservation commission's uh opinions on those items. Just kind of reminding them that when when it comes to a point that these things are going to be decided that we want to play some role,
>> but just I don't know that we need to get any more detail now because again this is obviously just conceptual right now, >> right? And I don't am I don't know what I don't really know what else to add. And I'm not really hearing anything with any specificity to add. And I don't want to
just throw things on there that I don't know and that nobody on this commission knows to throw on there. When I say on there, I mean the list of things that, you know, she's identified. So I can tell you that um over the last
three years there have been more than one or two iterations of this list of work items. Um me some of which was addressed when the ADA repairs were made cuz it had to do with water in the basement and the
flashing on the north side and some of the uh some of the things that were causing the water intrusion which were on the punch list originally have been dealt with in the ADA work. So that said, I think this is fairly complete, but I would feel better knowing uh if I
could cross-check it with the the last known punch list that I that I worked on. And then in the meantime, um I I do think it we could talk to Laura to see if she can join us. And if there is anything you see is
blatantly missing, we should throw it on here. This is the time to do it. But I understand what you're saying about it's hard to do that without any if you don't have any specifics. But >> well, I think we got we've got a legitimate and specific ask with regards to the paint color. I do think that it
kind of gets diluted a little bit if we start making sort of general statements about this concept list and adding things on. I want the council to understand that that is a real desire of this commission to be heard on the paint color. And again, I'd rather be focused
on that than other than these other items because then and they'll and again we'll include that we want to be heard on these other items as well, but I don't want to necessarily bring these things up in the abstract unless I have something concrete to ask for or add on.
I want to say >> and oh I have a Tracy I have a process question. And so here's a list of things to be done, but these now get contracted out to to vendors, >> right? >> That
>> there was no cost estimate provided with this work by this firm, right? >> Yeah. There's nothing specific to Art's point. There's nothing specific enough yet to prepare a cost estimate but um the law is retained to prepare
call it you know if if the bid document that's going to go out to vendor to contractors to bid on think of it like an Oreo there's a set of documents that the burough engineer prepares for the front and the back and Laura's work is in the middle which is the specifics as
it pertains it will be this it will Her bid spec specific sorry her bid specs are going to come from this list. She's going to design and inspect the things that whether it's windows or what kind of stone dust or concrete the bike pad
is going to be. Um she's going to prepare all of that for a bid document that then will go out to bid. >> Okay. I asked because um I don't know which council member it was but somebody maybe one or two said they really want
this done in time for the anniversary and I'm thinking how long is this bid process going to take that was the goal was to have this >> done >> I think that was me Steve I I certainly feel that way >> some you know
>> the bid process itself doesn't take long but it's the process for to work through the um council meetings. You know, each meeting there's a decision. It's made incrementally. This is the piece of government and the
reason for it is it gives opportunity for the public to weigh in. Believe it or not, question. Um, under interior when they say install the acoustical panels, do we know whether
that's going to be a fabric wrapped panel, something dropped? Are they attempting to replicate the the old original tin panels? >> I I I think that Oh, yeah. You're not ask were you asking me that question? >> Yeah.
>> Well, right. So I think um to Art's point this is a basic rough draft of initial set of work items or conceptual pretty much we could call it conceptual and it hasn't been determined hasn't been designed hasn't been specified there's been no community feedback so I
don't know is the straight answer >> what uh Tracy what is the next step with regard to uh the Goldstein partnership pri providing more specificity to these physical work items. >> Um,
if I mean that's part of what I'm going to pursue. I'm going to I'm going to try to get more specifics for you on that. But if I'm Laura, I'm going to wait to get direction from the government, which will then be communicated by Chris York.
The communication I think that Chris York can give her at this point is you know if there's any action at all it's to please continue to develop the list of work items with greater specificity. So at that point you know as that work
continues there'll be more for this body to respond to. >> When's the next time uh that this will be in any form an agenda item before council? That's one of my questions. And you guys know I don't set the
agenda. That's done by the mayor. I know when I get my packet in the mail, but I can um I can um pursue that to see if I can give you a more direct or specific answer,
which I will do. I hopefully I can give you something. And and if I get a date, I'll make sure Sheila has it so she can advise you. Okay, great. >> Anything else with regard to Centennial Hall?
>> Anything from the audience on Vicentennial Hall? >> Um, no separate question I have for the when you guys are finished. >> Okay. Um, any questions from anyone on Zoom about Centennial Hall?
All right, we'll move on. And uh the next item is the cap stam and our man Steve just left. I forgot to ask him updated everybody. >> Do you Did you want to make a motion to
um you said something about make a motion to have the historic association proceed with pursuing an analysis >> of the cap stand? >> No, no, of the color analysis. >> Yeah. Well, I made that motion that I was second. Didn't we vote on it?
>> Oh my gosh. Yes. Sorry. >> I don't You must have been too excited. You're supposed to >> Sorry. My second >> um 21 Fair Haven Road. Uh Tracy, what is up with that?
>> Um the the remediation work is underway. we can expect the house to be uh removed I would say um with the you know I can't I can't know exactly when but the remediation is proceeding according to schedule and the
next thing is to demolish the house so maybe in the next two weeks probably sooner I'm trying to be conservative because I don't know exactly and then um there's some large debris that will be removed not the cap stand that is secured it will not be you know it will
be safe there. Nobody's going to throw it at accidentally. And then um some rough regrading. Um you know, and the intention, unless we learn something else when they're in there moving the dirt around, but the
intention is that it would then be safe and accessible. It would be kind of in its very rough state. Not yet a park, but um not a hazardous not a hazardous site either. So,
uh we're it's it's happening. >> We have I don't know if anybody else making it as big a deal as worship by the time we're done with this. >> Okay. Uh Hagerty 27 Normandy Avenue.
that was the um people that did the restoration work didn't necessarily abide by our recommendation as far as the windows concerned. I have gone by there. I see that there's still construction ongoing. The people live there, but they're doing work. Um I will I I know I was going to send an I did
send an email to her, which I didn't get a response back. That's right. >> I indicated that I was going to do it again, but I did see the construction ongoing, so I didn't want to jump on that. Uh, so when I when I see that construction work has slowed down, we will I will I will email her regardless,
but I didn't want to um jump on that. So I'm going to sh that or table that until next month. Um, and then the last item is landmark considerations for the New Jersey 250 grant. Um, Tracy, I know we had some
discussions on that. U seems like that time has kind of come and gone to make that application. Yeah. Well, unless they extend the deadline. That happens often. >> Okay. But we have no indication at this point that they're extending the deadline.
>> No, we had a very small window to pull it together. So, >> yeah, exactly. >> And you're going to monitor that to see if if it opens up again? >> It comes. Yeah. I think I will let know for sure right away.
>> Okay. Um what else do we do? Um we approved the minutes and uh we approved the mini date uh meeting dates. Anything else from historic association on any other items? >> Yeah.
>> Okay. Um so we have officially begun our process um to create our very first online digital archive which is really exciting. Um, so now we're just compiling everything that we have and we're going to send it off to this
company uh that we have hired and we don't really have a time frame yet as to when that would really be functional, but it is it has begun. Um, >> sure. It's got to be a overwhelming task. There's so much stuff that has to be archived.
>> Yeah. But it's it has to happen. This is it's this is this is a really big deal. It's going to be so so great. Something that we could share with the community and the schools and so yeah, willing to take that on. It's just so important. >> Um it's on the website. It'll be
>> that'll Yeah, that will live on the new website. >> Okay. >> As a separate landing page and >> now kind of what we're talking about we mentioned is that little booklet that was put together in 1955 and then you have Tim McMahon who did his thing. you have Pat, but unless it's archived, it
kind of, you know, >> right? Unless it's >> kind of caves by the wayside. >> Yeah. So, we're working on getting everything digitized. >> Um, so last week I met with Cheryl Romano, who's the director of curriculum for the
Bean School District, uh, just to learn more about how their K through 8 is structured. and we started generating some ideas on how to get more of the history of fair into the schools and how to do that per grade
level. So, we have a few things that we're each going to look into potentially maybe starting field trips into bsentennial hall next in the fall of 2026 and how that would work. And so those discussions have started and as of
right now there's a little the heaviest emphasis on the fair history is in first grade for about a week um in the spring and there's not much else. So I think it be it's again so important once we get this the website you know filled more in
the digital archive I don't want to share with the schools and um it's going to be such a great resource to use K through eight in so many different ways and I showed her the bunch of the AI renderings that we have on the website
and she was just thrilled. She's like this is going to get the the kids attention big time. So we are working on a few ideas for that. Um the historic association and the fair
business association have partnered to thorough a town event on Sunday December 14th pending some approvals. Um it's we're calling it U Tide on Main Street and it's going to be a town
shopping event. Santa will be at the firehouse. Besentennial Hall will be open. We'll do the historic association will do a few different things. Custom, you know, complimentary gift wrapping. And it's just a really good opportunity to showcase
the building um on a day that people, you know, are out and about and shopping. And we have a trolley that would make, you know, it easier for people to get from each end west and east end of the business district.
And yes, so we're waiting on a few approvals from that. But that should be about 11 to 5 on Sunday, December 14th. And the last thing I have is maybe you can speak
more to this art. We had an event in the works. >> Yeah. So the um the 250th anniversary um in conjunction with the historic association um we were supposed to have a speaker at Bsentennial Hall on either
January 21st or 28th. That was going to be Randy Random Gabriel and he was the person that had agreed to do it but uh he unfortunately passed away. So now we're trying to pivot to Chris Brener who I've had a hard time getting in touch with though. >> I got in touch with him. >> Oh good. Yeah. So I'll talk to about it
offline and uh get that taken care of. So the idea would be to have that and do it since his uh speech and what did he say he would he's available and he would do it. Oh, excellent. So it would primarily revolve around the Marter estate. So it would involve Robson as
well. So we're going to do it ideally in conjunction with Robson >> and um any updates on the um Century Home program? No, still working on the application um and building that as a also a separate
landing page on the website. So that's still work in progress. >> And again, I didn't get a chance to I forgot to bring that I had those audience for you. >> Anything else on historic associated? >> Absolutely. I just want to add one thing since you mentioned Randall
Gabriel and um um he just I think it'd be nice for us as a commission just to just make a statement that so much of his book actually has documented the historic district, the homes, the look of the
homes, what happened in homes. So, um I just want to state for me personally that he was my introduction to the history of Fair Haven. um his books were the first thing I looked at and began my interest in history and the trajectory of I ended up wanting here. So just uh
just a thank you to him. I wish I wish uh when when Elise told me the horrible news that well the great news that he had was going to be the speaker and then just how profoundly sad it is that we don't have that opportunity to hear him speak one more time. Yeah, I I spoke
with him at um at the uh historic uh the county historical association symposium uh at Brookdale. Um he's involved in a bunch of different projects. He's done books similar to the historic book on fair in other towns. Um and you know our
discussion, you know, he was actually going to be talking about some broader items, but he was going to be bringing these books because a lot of the younger people in town don't know this book and I think would be very interested in it. So I think he was uh starting to get increasingly excited about it. But
>> he had like a whole topic ready. It was >> I was actually so surprised when you know was there any I had been looking a couple of times for any more information on on that you know >> less. >> Yeah. So but hopefully you know we'll do
this other thing and talk about it again offline get that taken care of. Um, okay. Any um anything else? Oh, >> help myself. Just one thing for at least the um the program you're set up online for
your repository. An example of what I'm suggesting is that or possibly on there you have narratives and stories that are one level deeper than what people see. So we have the plaque now for the police station and it was we bio historian and
it's finalized but it's a historical plaque with dates and things that happened but it doesn't have the context of of for instance the story that we were first given. So there are a whole lot of historical um
context that we can add to some of these stories that would be really interesting to high school or middle school depending on the level interesting to every level. But just as an example, the police station and colored school and the church >> and >> every picture on the wall in the church
has it has another story. It might be about economics. It might be about politics. It might be about globalization or something. But there's there's a lot of ways you can go with some of these things. And I think when at least I missed the the last meeting but the previous meeting and is if you model what Redbank did and they they're
using the same company that the association is going to use. Um when we say digital scanning it's not it's not just scanning okay >> uh things. It's also links to existing so the website can have links to
existing articles. It can have links to like I know the article you're talking about which the story of the police station or the the color school. >> Yeah. So yeah. Yeah. So I believe the website can be anything we want it to be and layers with layers
and layers. >> Make sure it's accurate. A lot of these stuff, you know, you don't really know. So >> and what Redbank does is they, for example, they'll have a a link that says such and such is, you know, John Doe's collection. So anything under there are
his things, his scans, his art, his pictures. So um there are ways to like like you said history can be subjective obviously but um >> yeah so >> on the
sorry uh on the topic related to the former black school has everyone seen the narrative produced by the historian the county historian >> I just want to make sure the commission members have it
>> did you verify accuracy to it. >> That's pretty accurate. Boy, there's a big story. It's not there. >> Right. >> There's there's certainly more that can be be on the website. But I did the commission get a copy of it have
>> uh Yeah, you did. >> I did. >> Okay. >> But not for not for review though. Just >> for statement. >> Yeah. >> Maybe that's a blessing, Katie. Yeah. Yeah, I understand.
>> Okay. Anything else from the association? Good. Public comments. >> Um, not on this topic you guys talked about. Okay. >> Just a general question. Um, I heard you guys mention a budget a few times. Do you guys have one for the year? Do you
like allocate certain funds? >> Do you mind if I have you just give me your name for >> Oh, sure. Uh Sammy Smi Roberts. >> Yeah. Um I don't believe I mean there was a time that we did have a budget but
there was a uh sort of shuffling around. We do not currently have a budget. So we were all volunteers. Sheila our secretary is a uh burrow employee who uh that I I suspect is our budget out here
>> part time. >> No. So that's uh so we do not but so we render decision not decisions but recommendations and again it's all it's we're all citizens of fair haven and um residents of fair haven and uh we do it
voluntarily so we don't need a budget. >> Thank you. >> Anybody else? >> Yeah. My name is Tristan Halter. >> What's your last name? >> Halter. >> Halter. Um, what are some ways you guys think we
could keep people in town informed about the significance of the historic buildings? >> Yeah. Um, so you heard there's these two groups working um sort of parallel. They have different functions, but the association is has nothing to do with
the burrow. Uh it's a group of people that are heavily, you know, they're organized, very enthusiastic about maintaining um the history and education and they basically are doing uh just that. They're creating the website, this
repository of documents and photographs and other images and other likenesses and things of that nature to try to get the word out because it's amazingly quick how generations turn over. At some point people know things and then those people either move away or pass away and
then a lot of information is just simply lost. And maybe Elise you want to expand on that a little bit as to the efforts of the association doing just that. >> So right now besides you know at least two books um and a whole bunch of Facebook comment
photos that's pretty much all all we have as far as where you go to to find the history of Fairban. Do you know the books that she's talking about that they're they're two books that basically take them? >> Yeah. >> Two volumes of but uh a lot of them are
from what are called Dorne Images. There was a photography studio in Redbank and they just did a lot of local photography and so a lot of the images were preserved and uh it was um investigation by the author Rander Gabriel the guy who
we just said passed away to get a little bit of information and his own investigation as to different photos. And so you you'll see a lot of houses and structures, some of which are no longer there, some of which um you know shows the historic photos of different
things in town. >> So yeah, so the plan is to we just um two months ago just created our first website for the association. Uh the burrow has a landing page on their website with some brief um facts and and
and photos, but the intent was to start a website and then start the process to do an online digital archive and start scanning everything and anything we have, neighbors, residents have. And so it'll live online and um that and social
media and just get it all digitized because right now >> if you're looking at it those two books are pretty much it. >> I'm trying to see what I can recognize. >> Did you grow up in Fair Haven? >> Yeah. >> Where where where you grow up in
Fairhead? >> Uh on Cambridge like right behind Milwood. >> Okay. >> Yeah, those were that was farmland back there. Mhm. >> So, you probably uh >> look for coin. >> You probably are a good uh
proof of how much Fair Haven history did you get in your K through8? >> I don't know. They probably have those books upstairs. >> I think I've seen one of these. >> Did you go to RF? >> Yeah. >> 2020. >> Okay.
>> Both of you guys? >> Uh yeah, I graduated in 2021. >> Okay. All right. Any other questions? >> No, that should do it. >> How are things on Eastern Avenue renders all good? >> Yeah. Uh, we go to school on the
Brookdale campus. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Great. >> Thank you guys for letting us stop in and listen. It was sort of last minute us coming to the meeting. get some credit or whatever. >> Don't miss it. >> Yeah. Thank you for having us.
>> Absolutely. Okay. Anything else? >> Make a motion that we close the meeting. >> Second. >> What about this meeting?