okay uh this is the regular meeting of the Fair Haven Historic Preservation Commission adequate notice of this meeting has been given pursuant to the provisions of the Open Public Meetings Act at the time that the at the time of the board reorganization in January of this year the board adopted
uh its regular meeting schedule for the year notice of the schedule was sent and was published in the Asia Park Press on January 31st 2025 and in the Two River Times on January 23rd 2025 that notice also was posted on the Bolton board in Burough Hall and has remained
continuously posted there as required by statute a copy of the notice has been available to the public and it it is on file at the office of the burough clerk a copy of this notice has also been sent to members of the public as have requested such information in accordance with the statute adequate notice having
been having been given the board secretary is directed to include this statement in the minutes of this meeting and we get a roll call mr hav here mrs stand yes mr anderson mr schlutoter here mr
heler mrs cthora here mrs casey here Mr smith Mrs forte here okay so uh we don't have any applications but obviously the bicesentennial hall for chapel updates are becoming more and more luminous
different things happening so that sort of is going to probably be a lot of what our meeting is focused on today uh we will be waiting for councilwoman Kohl's uh to be here but we do have liaison and the president of the historic association so uh maybe we'll get an
update um as pursuant to the first agenda item under old business tell us about what's going on with bsentennial hall and fisk chapel okay so um Chris York and Drew Council uh Councilman Waba
um did a walk through today with Mac Ronin and everything is done great it's done as of today and in uh as far as the ADA work and the bathroom done today yeah so the ramp is completed yep the railing's up um everything's poured the
steps yeah it looks really good i said look looks really good you guys you've seen it it looks so much better um but they did the walkthrough today um a proposed opening of May 1st pending the CEO um but the contractors have moved
everything out and they're just waiting on their last inspection how about for example the maintenance items or the list of items that you know that needed immediate act you know action and I think some of the gutters there was some clapboard that was
falling off and holes and I think some squirrels all that stuff was eradicated and taken care of anything around the um the ramp and the door that was replaced um and they did uh they replaced a gutter
and anything up and around where the water and the ramp or have been um fixed and replaced joe I think was there LA uh prior to last meeting i think you mentioned that you saw some type of uh movement of the chimney in the back
chimney was leaning yeah but that's on the other side so I don't think they addressed any of that at this point not at this point not that I know not that they And a long time ago that chimney was leaning back like 30 years ago yeah the footing's sinking so it's Yeah yeah okay
i haven't looked lately it's at the top it's probably this far away boy it's not going to fall over today or tomorrow and I know that there obviously there's another day for the historic association's garden party um any other
activities and things happening relating to bsentennial hall in the near future um do you want to talk about transit no you go ahead okay um so nothing as far as by hall um we're just waiting on that
that opening date and then we can start holding some meetings in there again um the garden party September 6th um and where is it again uh 895 River Road which it on the water side obviously mhm
and it there's enough land yeah you be rolling down nobody's rolling down no nobody's rolling down um but the the transom window at the PD was removed and safely stored in the basin of
Bsentennial Hall and um the building scheduled to be uh knocked down at the end of the month um that's basically it not too much else we saw the photos of the uh removal of the window when bad incident anything detected when they removed the window as to who it's what
condition it was in whether it needs any was harder to remove that they than they anticipated it took longer and do they have it um in storage do they have it encased in wood it's encased in a cardboard wooden box frame and um we'll
be there until figure out what to do with it right so in that respect we had and we talked about it at the last meeting that potential landing spike sites would be the new community center by centennial hall school in Lwood any thoughts or any movement on any of that
stuff we will move we discussed it a little bit it seems like the new community center I guess is that now we have counciloman Kohl's here does that seem to be the consensus as to the new community center being a landing spot for it um good evening from forgive
me for being late um I believe that the communication is going to come from this body regarding alternative locations which I'm you know I'm trying to not do all I think them hearing from the body is important and I'll follow up with
um color you know if there's I think one of the great suggestions which could be in in your memorandum if you choose to is to um turn to the architect before we they drift off the project site and see if they have some suggestions but even
if that doesn't happen I think we have adequate local folks who could help us identify appropriate place at community center yeah because I mean to to sort of install it if you will at either Sickls or Nullwood doesn't I mean I guess there
is uh some wisdom to that but it just seems like under with new construction it almost and it's at the same location seems like it it's a almost a no-brainer that does seem to be the the obvious consensus i don't speak for everyone but
that is what I hear over and over and then obviously by Centennial Hall it's it's not something that is original to the structure so I don't know how you would integrate it into you'd have to modify the interior to it to accommodate
it would that change the historic nature which is pretty uh obviously is pretty unchanged since the beginning so I don't know whether that would be an option the other thing I would add sorry for the commission to think about is
um are you has everyone heard of the New Jersey Black Heritage Trail uh we have an application hopefully putting the final touches for uh what they do is identify important landmarks with through our application process and then
um they pay for a beautifully made I guess this is bronze you know some sort of permanent landmark signage that has a small narrative and um it may be that the former location of
the school be a great for another landmark so we would certainly want to put together an application for that which would be perhaps even worth noting the transom as being a remnant of you know to tie it in
and connect the architectural element to be the salvage for the purpose of the story and you know point to it so I think there's there's added value that can be we can turn to it over and over again in the story and from the
signage and probably even have a plaque there it makes good sense is there any thought to having like an exterior display or something uh I think the the you I know this commission discussed the fact that because it's
wood it wouldn't be Oh you mean um with for a sign well I mean it is wood i understand that but you could treat it or do some kind of enclosure or something like that to put it on display that doesn't seem practical but again I don't know what the consensus is it I
mean we are part of forming this consensus this body is forming helping form that consensus that I haven't heard that get any traction i think the correct me if I'm wrong but what I remember hearing is that um it would be nice to put the transom somewhere in the
community center that it would be visually um either you know on a circulation path or on some point of access and I may have been the one to say that but it seemed to resonate with people and there are some places where that could happen if to study the line of sight because
there's some beans a clear ceiling but there's some beams there so I don't know if it would that might interrupt but so finding the right location is communication from this commission which will trigger my followup which I would probably
recommend that a couple people maybe work with our um member of the facilities committee and probably our building and grounds foreman um to do sort of a scouting session on site if the architect's available to join I think that could be helpful um so from a
and from a procedural standpoint then how is that going to take place is the council going to make a determination how is that and and from what input it not it's not exclusive to us there's no necessary and there's not an application pending we don't necessarily take a formal position on it we make
recommendations but I'm curious as to how that decision process is ultimately going to be made so a great question and procedurally we've kind of been constructing it as we go but the way um it seems to be working is um that you received a memorandum with some um
positions or suggestions from the historic association you're of government they are not so now um you you can have a response based on your discussions here and that would then go to our burough administrator from Sheila
would send that uh to reflect the consensus of this body along with anything else you feel you're an advisory body on this issue um and it anything else you feel is worth noting um would go in the form of an advisory
memo to Chris York uh copy me and if you can't think of everybody else to copy I could take it from there um then uh I I will suggest that a small task force be put together to kind of scout okay and assess the viability of best location
and I'll always come back and make sure you know how that pans out um but that because it is something new that this commission has yet to do at least since my tenure has been here you would know it is but I also I think there are a lot of people who care about this stuff sure
and to leave it to a small group um whom you know everyone cares about different things in different ways and this seems appropriate here but then um obviously that gets you know as part of a report at the council meeting and then there'd be some consensus amongst the council
probably informally but um after all that due diligence it would be any thoughts on it from community center that seems to make the most sense to me because it's a place where more people are going to be going to and they can see it like you
said having that bronze plaque there could dictate the history to people as they saw it tracy is that bronze plaque separate from the original statement that I think Drew made which there that he already had the
verbishes working with Pastor Smith on the historical significance of the school is is that plaque for the transom in addition to the plaque related to the school or are they one and one and the same it it's a fair question there is no narrative or even application yet to put
the former site of the black school on the historic on the heritage trail that application doesn't exist yet and therefore the sign that would be awarded or not based on our application is still an idea so it's not it's not done yet
and we but even if it were to be applied for obviously we would dubtail it or make sure the reason I ask is I think way before the the concept of getting the grant or whatever it is the sign yeah yeah um that had already been
discussed that we and we had even talked about would there be fundraising need would it have to be a local effort to fundraise so I think there already have been sort of a informal commitment that the burough would put some sort of historical since the facility discussion
that has always been that there'd be some sort of landmark signage at that location to commemorate the site of this so you're saying that now coincidentally there's this other signage to me no it's been about two years because ever since I was on the grants
committee um we flagged that and as well as perhaps even the the old former players club which is now she's right we have a few really interesting historic landmarks um uh so what it's out there as an
option and we have been we went through a whole bunch of administrative shifts and now there is no grants committee but we now have a BA who does write grants so on the list of all the things we want to do that's on there the reason I
mentioned that is only because Drew had said that he was working with a pastor and already had ideas for the verbiage of it and maybe that was just sort of a casual idea i don't know how far and set in stone that process i think you can do both i'll just say that now and if I'm
wrong because one puts the the site on the trail it's in a pamphlet it's part of state tourism information it it so the site that's an extent to the sign with that would be awarded if we have a winning application
um is a for landmark importance this this the other sign would properly commemorate local history and there's no there'd be some crossover no doubt so my only thought on the transom is in the ideal world I agree with you Art in the
ideal world you walk up and you see that transcend almost in physically in the same perspective of where it was when it was a school now we have the practical side of it how how does one implement that and that might be hard to do this is where I'm wondering we should have
there might be I know there are professionals or experts who just have ideas on how you take a thing that used to be a wooden thing and display it in front of or inside a way that's appropriate and there like you said
maybe someone will point us to an example hey in this town they actually took an old wooden thing and look at it and short of us building our new building up front all the time as interior windows um I'm sure and Joe I'm sure you have some
ideas like that so for me I'm thinking that option one is a display that's as you walk in option two is like Tracy said some something in you know raptors and I think something that we easily can do on
those side walls in the vest because I've seen this done a really nice um black and white like almost like a like like it would take up any space like flat photos with placards you know like like a do could help us with that
that kind of thing talking about the history so when you walk through it's a two-dimensional version of the of the history independent of what we do with the transit okay so it sounds like what I just got from that is that we need the
right professional because we can't sitting in this room do you know who the architect is name of the architect well it was Eli Goldstein okay um but um we anticipate remember Laura
Berwin we anticipate potentially we also Matt Cronin is working on by Centennial Home he's has a lot of sensitivity but it does seem based on what Katie said and what you've said in the past that there's a role for an architect here to
make sure it's refurbished properly and considered display well I imagine that the interior is already I mean that architectural detail has already been taken care of it is done yes yeah so now it's while it's still I mean it's beyond the conceptual phase it's just a matter of integrating into an you know in an
existing not existing but an existing plan yes yes that's a lot less than integrating it into like like we were saying before the schools which you would require construction you know retroactive construction and things of that nature so um okay so you have these different people that have a
hand in it but would it be Eli Goldstein they were responsible for the interior layout and architecture um no we had we had an interior designer group too so there were layers of professionals on all three of those facilities and who's
coordin yeah along with the facilities committee which I was on but now um Drew was the common he's the through line on facilities so I think um for community for procedural purposes if you this commission and I do think it would be
appropriate to call out the importance of the role of a good architect that could um oversee refurbishment and consider display options and maybe generate a couple of alternatives to give it proper okay if that sounds appropriate it does
okay if you could touch on that in your memorandum then I can do the followup well I'll prepare one on that issue because you know ordinarily our memorandum are only in response to applications but this is something of public interest that we're taking a position on okay is there any like
independent museum uh curator that you could bring on board for something like this because it is a historical artifact that's such a good question mama Historical Society yeah maybe we can reach out to the um the historical the county historic commission you weren't
even um um not so this is a long answer but it might make sense there's um New Jersey Historic Trust has uh different levels of grant funding for
different types of um different aspects of preservation efforts because they know local communities try to organize and acquire and then after they acquire then they have to assess the work that needs to be done that's plan then they have to execute the plans and then they have to
plan their programs and then those programs get executed that's a different funding mechanism that's right where we are with by Centennial Hall but the um that slice of grant money that is available for the
um um execution of like displays and how you're going to actually make it either a museum or an interactive you know depending what the community comes up with is available i mean it's something perhaps we should think about applying
for a grant yeah i'm sure there's other areas that have these architectural elements that they've had to repurpose or put so they could display them like I don't know where you would find that yeah i think there's it's a whole industry right
so um if you could touch on it it helps if it's in there then then what happens is I can kind of pick it up and run with it as your lay on okay and help to see where the likelihood of of one of these
uh cracks happening there maybe in your memo in addition to recommending you know the interior design professional um a a cure so a a someone who has expertise
in how to display and and tiki kind of thing um whatever I'm sure there's a name for that type of specialist they right up on uh down the road they have the maritime museum and I'm sure that it'd be interesting to
contact them and see okay who's setting up how they're displaying their stuff that's a great idea that is Yeah yeah and we've all gone to places where there is that one thing in front of the front door that is a symbol of what you're about to walk into yes usually
they're metal or whatever firehouse bell right the big anchor at the Mammoth Beach Cultural Center yes yeah but we're not putting this window outside unless we have something to protect it right
but I can see it something when you first walk in and you see it that would be pretty impressive and how that would be displayed at the community center yeah um I love what you guys are thinking about um and just any and you
back light it defining it now inside you know where the altar was right on the wall there in bsentennial wall yeah when you when you walk in you that's what you would see the only reason I'm reticent to that Pat I love
the idea conceptually is because I feel like those stained glass windows are the windows of that of the chapel you know I mean they are its own kind of gets deleted you're kind of taking it away from the church and the church is its own special exactly um
what's the condition of the glass is there is it original leaded glass i believe so and has that been preserved also the glass well these are great questions obviously somebody has to get in there and work on it fix it up um it needs TLC i don't know if it needs full
refurbishment yeah that I I did not assess that so but that's it should be assessed it should be um to to Does it require refurbishment does it require clean up and re you know look at what it looks good yeah it looked fine
what are the It was fairly the piece of glasses cracked but otherwise it looked okay previously cracked previously cracked not cracked yeah because of that because of the rule they look like they look pretty pretty if you the various photographs that I've
seen and many of them taken by Elise there are some where it's stunning the way the the light it is pretty cool there's nothing that screams out oh the glass isn't functional like some some of those photographs it just is very vibrant beautiful i don't know about the
housing but is the glass faceted it's not just flat glass or is it I don't know i think it does it is grassing it some why do I think that is it from the plex from the I don't know but I feel like it was there's I was thinking of the
windows because Yeah now it appears they weren't fascinated i had to take I had to get all those windows out because they were all the mins and everything just rotten and they were fall was literally falling out on the ground so I
had them take it to Blaze Lumber they took everything out and then they re and they redid every all the wood was done and it looks like crap again but it's unpainted again you know it's hard to tell with the tape on
it is beautiful so at least in the pictures it looks like it has color to it is it clear glass glass it looks clear yeah wait where are you what is that where are you looking i don't see any facets in it it's beautiful
just we need to make the jam around it check these windows out i just found this in my house thank you with you guys yeah I know yeah the sunshine that's when all the all the glass was
broken so I had the the whole windows taken out and and sent to Blaze Lumber and they redid them and they red redid them and you know what the wood Frank Thomas and that would have done that work for them back then at Blaze yeah i I don't know who it was but I I stood
there the whole time watching over my glass and but anyway so but the wood looks terrible again it's not been taken care of i mean it is 20 some odd years yeah at least yeah kind of what is that what probably pine
right yeah back in the day yellow pine when she was more durable um okay anything else Susan any thoughts or comments on the on the window um before you came Tracy we were we were
just talking at Bentennial Hall in general we were talking about the uh the um access ramp which has been largely completed and a lot of the punch list items maintenance items have been taken care of is there anything else to report um just looking ahead maybe you covered
this already but looking ahead to scoping sort of really the final bucket of repair work which will include things like reinstalling the doors that are in the basement upstairs um assessing
um you know we need new locks on the front doors um think we need a dedicated bicycle parking um there's a number of things so I don't have that in front of me but I believe the plan in talking with Chris did you
already talk about this i don't want to repeat not much oh okay the the um Chris York is coordinating an effort to put together this full list as a bid document um which will require us to take the lowest bidder it's a unique
bundle of work it's a little bit quirky you know it's not just a typical contractor and the usual subs so um hopefully we can go out and do some handholding with some good um contractors who'd be willing to do the
work um who were the contractors that did the first phase i know wasn't anything significant but would would the ADA work well not only that but uh well I guess them as well but some of the repair of the gutters repair some maybe some replacement our DPW guys did it
they did it yeah yeah so this the maintenance items that are on the punch list are beyond what our DPW can do but sort of don't meet the threshold of a full GC but we're going to need a specialized GC to kind of do this we painting work alone is going to send it
over the big threshold so currently the thinking now if there's another way to compartmentalize this work to get either better grade professionals or better costs to save tax dollars um we haven't figured that out yet right now it seems
like the best approach is to bundle and put it out to bid and um are the requirements then to just take the lowest bidder or qualifications does that factor into the decision process it does lowest qualified bidder qualifications usually have to do with um you know insurance that they they
don't have a a failed project in their recent history so it's sort of a low bar they should have an experience with historic structures and restoration that is the intent and I think that's part of why um we're going to have the right professionals helping to prepare the bid
documents okay anything else on Centennial Hall or the window all right the next item oh I I do one small thing it fits within these categories remember your discussion on the cap stand i was bringing that up next that always seems to come back to
our discussion it's on our agenda all right is there any updates on the cap stand it's been somewhat stationary for a long period of time like these months are now moving quickly um the cap stand is got to be relocated over to 21 it
seemed like an obvious it has to be removed from the DPW site everything is getting cleaned up we are near completion um they are functioning out of that facility we're trying to finish up the grounds so they can store it on on the property on the
21 away so that it's safe it's been outside it will remain outside forever yeah it's made to be outside um its ultimate purpose or placement or
existence at all is unknown um again at when you're comfortable if you feel like you want to weigh in and say something about the capstone I know you have talked about it in the past i've brought it to you specifically so we could hear what your thoughts were on this um I think that would be worth
conveying there's no rush i'll say that and I know obviously the next item is going to be the 21 Fair Haven Road um and it's probably too early but at some point there's going to be design professionals that are going to be utilized for the purpose of whatever that is used for passive park active
park whatever that may be um and at that point probably that would be integrated into that design oh certainly how far off far away are we from anything like that um I can touch on this stuff if you're ready to yeah I mean it's kind of intertwined
the u the timing is uncertain we we have a lot of work to do you're right we do need to bring on um a team of professionals the um you received an email I think right so what you have here is really is a process document
that's examining um I like to call them like guard rails or sort of some of the things you can do and things you can't do um for people who have experience with these sorts of projects this is sort of a basic outline
of what um what the the committee has put together um and I some ideas about just looking at not their own ideas by looking at the documents and finding out what the rules are and say so we've examined what we can we're now at the
point where we have a few key decisions have been made one is we want to apply for an open space grant this year and I'll explain the implications of that setting that goal two to hire the right professionals
to help us get to that next step and um three initiate community outreach and that's really what we're doing here today is start a conversation um so like I'm doing this as your layout's on here tonight um but uh Brian will do with the
planning board somebody else whoever's on shade tree I forget i forget everyone's assignments there's a lot of different parts but those conversations are happening at all levels of government and um really the idea is not to burden anybody with the need to like come up with a you know but hopefully to
start the conversation so it's in the public mindset and we can talk to each other about it whether you're at a meeting or at your kitchen table or on your commute and on the phone with a friend you know like it's important to surface those ideas now just to stir the
pot and um we do know that we have a fair amount of analysis we still need to have completed like circulation parking uh environmental some environmental things we have an outfall there we have a coastal blowout there's there's there's a fair amount of
analysis we still need to get into so the three initially the three professionals that the committee is requesting from council is a um a planner a landscape architect and an environmental
um engineer you have them already no we do not have them yet okay um but they are key really you we can't we can't complete the assessment work it's very hard to develop a design without this
sort of that data becomes critical and identifying some of what can't be done um ideally we also look for opportunities that are uniquely um where there is unique potential at that site
like for example it's in the historic district and we know it was the home of the initial you know the town of Doc um and all of the various narratives that extend from that so tonight what we wanted to do as I
said what's happening on all the all the different boards commissions and committees is really have an open conversation and talk about the historic specific as it relates to your purview the the significance of the site within
the historic district what about it you think lends itself to something worth capturing whether that's in the design or whether that's in you know the narratives and the information that gets shared conveyed I don't there's really
no rules in an open conversation like this but it'd be good to just start talking about it and I should explain this is really the first in what will be a series you know eventually we'll have some more analysis and I'll bring that here to share with There's even though
you have a spot here for that in fact there's a spot for exactly what you said in here which is the historic commission and the preserv historic preservation committee um ensure that design elements respect the character of the historic district identify opportunities to
integrate markers plaques design references um capstand might be in there um provide recommendations for materials aesthetic site layout so I see That's where the like our home would be this absolutely but I don't know what the
timing of like so that would be this would be something that hopefully as maybe it lives under old business and if somebody comes back to a future meeting with an idea that they got between now and the next meeting or three meetings from now it's something where you you can document it so I can carry it into
the the process but what I can tell you is the application for the open space grant is due uh July which means we have to wrap up this first round of work the end of June the funding if awarded would
not be available till 2026 and what's the criteria for an open space grant does it have to remain as open space or can structures be built on or is there like a like a like a floor area ratio that has to remain open the well no
there isn't specifically I but the floor area ratio would be driven probably there's the county doesn't put that a floor area ratio but we do have some very specific rules about it being recreational and open space that's about
as specific as it gets um for some towns they need a playground and that counts for other that's been sort of the discussion I think all along that it be a playground I I think a some type of a structure like old Chandler's Dock which would house a Fair Haven
Museum would be the right way to go but you got to start someplace you know what spit it out just when they take down 21 there's going to be water pipes already in there like say for a bathroom
wouldn't that be a good idea to have a bathroom a small bathroom there and use use the the water that's already you know the pipes are already there you mean in from the house yeah and when the house is gone well for sure there's plumbing there yeah um we also know any
structure that would sit on that site is going to be vulnerable to storm surge and until we get the environmental engineer on board I can't tell you exactly how vulnerable but I mean we know it just seems like you know bingo it's already there it does however there's another guard rail the planning
analysis will help identify for us which is what's appropriate in that neighborhood right and there are some serious thresholds we have to respect because um we've had public restrooms even in the form of port uh down there
and it can tend to get abused um so we're very I'm very guarded about public changes the intent on that because I've seen what's happened at Fair Haven Fields with the restrooms there what happened they destroyed taken care of
and go in there and they break stuff vandalism it's just um it's a it becomes a public nuisance it just dawned on me that there were pipes there going in there it makes a lot of sense yeah no then you have to have people there to open it and put it
in the neighbor yeah and I think you'll discover this when you have the open houses like Fair Haven feels people are there for can be for a significant amount of time a few hours for a game an event i imagine that
21 Fair Haven Road I love the names here Albertina or Pearl Street um I don't think people will be hanging out for five hours or four hours I think and so And I think also who who does do you think the fisherman yeah I was going to
say that's going to attract fish with that facility there to evacuate or something yeah and some fisherman sleep stay there all night they bring a little mattress that's old school fairy they want to bring back Easter that's exactly how it was used so
the the point was and and Pat you brought up a really it's good you mentioned it because the the planning analysis is going to help us identify the question of intensity and what sort of improvements are going to um perhaps tip it in a direction that
would be too disruptive to the neighborhood or tip it to safe and peaceable coexistence with the neighborhood which is really what we all want yeah everyone wants it to be the right fit for Fair Haven and for um the
neighborhood when is the um I know you had talked about the whole safety bring the house down and I think the what's going on in the house to make sure it's safe even near all that what is the probability that in the foundation Pat there might be remnants of
anything historical it could be there was the Vantine Hotel down there and um right in that area and there was Yeah there was the like during excavation they probably in there that would be fun to to I mean that's a ways off though I
know that house I think is like a midcentury house that was new construction like a 50s house so the um the first phase is site stabilization we've been going through
all of this um long story short um it's kind of an expensive proposition to get it to that point because of all the asbestous that was discovered um but we will be undertaking that work it's right now being scoped and put before the
environmental um engineer Nagarian and um they're going to write it up so we can put it out to bid is there a timeline for that well it's this year it's this year um I could get back to you when I know okay i'm just I'm just
curious because I'd like to get a little hammer or something and stuff was it the property was donated to the town was it not was it as a result of a tax liability that was there um it was a little more complex the owner it was the
owner sold it to the burrow technically for 800,000 I think was it 800,000 no it was quite a bit more the price was more a lot more um it was paid for by the county open space money and um some and
help from M Conservation Foundation and they handled a lot of the due diligence and um the expenses of recording even going through all of the back and forth with the homeowner over a number of years actually it took a long time the ultimate price fair even pitched in was
about 300 something i do remember that and did they have any title issues because I know on the Robarts uh park they had significant title issues over there if they if they would have come up if there were and because yeah lots of people ask that question um and it that
did not happen the closing would have gone through so the fact that all of these different public entities or quasi public entities played a role in the acquisition did they have any say as to the intensity of the use of the property or once they granted that it's just left to the discretion of the burrow uh the
answer is the open space fund restricts the use of those monies to if you once the land is acquired using open space money there's only two conditions it has to be open space or recreation and it has to be made uh available accessible
is a better word to the public the broader public beyond fair so that it goes on a county map and it identifies county parks and this sort of thing so and then just one other question i know we're kind of going off tangent but I do
notice that there are a number of signs now that limit the parking around the dock mhm um so there obviously that's probably in response to some people complaining or just sort of an intent to try to limit the not limit the usage but kind of maybe discourage the overnight sleeping on the dock and the fishing and
that sort of thing has that been a discussion as to the interaction there because now you're kind of going against that you're going to intensify that whole area and so what are you saying that people are taking their their cars are going right up to the dock is that Yeah I just noticed that there was a there were you know limitation parking
like twohour parking obviously that the intent of that is to prevent people from staying there for long periods of time um that was done um uh that was done in a very timely manner at the time of the acquisition and in part in response to
the community that expressed sincere and you know kind of u inforked concern i think that you know a lot of us really felt our concerns were spot on to that planning analysis that's going to look at traffic circulation parking
accessibility all of those questions have yet to be answered what we have right now is um a an effort to really hopefully get the grant at least this initial round of funding the amount that we would apply for is a
million $500,000 match on the part of the bureau which that funds those funds have been set aside they exist it happen yeah so um we can apply provided we have all the components of the application um
and we should apply to try to get it obviously it would help fund bringing in the right professionals it would help fund um really the initial intent is to get it open mhm so if we're talking
about an ultimate park you know with museums and interaction or you know whatever your contributions are um or right now this initial application would be for a million dollars so that we can
get 21 open safely available to the public it would be an initial um probably about an acre and a half i mean it looks a little bit smaller because you have a structure there and it's all overgrown on the Fair Haven roadside but it's exactly 76 acres however there is
the seagment off to the west which is the park and the dock and you know so it it when you put it together you're probably about right so thinking about this as an ongoing conversation Katie coming back to your question of how long is this process um
the my experience tells me we we we need our professionals in order to continue to have informed discussions with the public and for a council to act on any kind of improvements um they have a few months of work once
they're in place and that process of getting them in place is takes time because it moves it real slow and um so I would allow six to nine months for that um and then of course there'll be
additional community outreach eventually we'll be looking at uh concept plans with bubble diagrams which show circulation and highlight some of the opportunities that existed this site unlike other sites what's special about this one what do you want to capitalize
on and then we'll look at some actual designs there'll be a schematic phase before we get to that and then we'll sort of generate a few alternatives and get to a point where we're working on one design um and the entire community invited to be part of that and I'll
continue to engage directly commission as that process unfolds that it's not less than 24 months but initially let's get it open you know um that I can explain the site stabilization phase so in your mind you
can imagine what this site would be like once the stabilization phase is complete um this means the house will be down it has to be remediated in a very specific way so but so you'll see that sort of
stuff if you're in the neighborhood um and the house will come down the um there's about eight trees that are um failing or diseased um and there's several many trees on that site i don't
think that the and the shade tree commission is going to look at this too but the eight trees that are specified by the um sh the community forestry or the um arburies thank you yes um licensed tree
expert thank you she has identified these trees and they seem to be problematic some of them are leaning and broken and where we're also going to make sure the ivy is removed in hopes of preserving the trees that are contributing to the site but not do anything drastic and turn removable that
kind of buffering is helpful for now um there's a failed I'm going to call a retaining wall yeah along the shoreline um which is just hazardous um that will have to be removed well that was going to be a
question are they going to restore the property to those needs and bounds or are they going to cut back the property to shore up the We don't want to lose any property because it's I mean it's there it's a there's a bulkhead there but it's just been breached exactly so I
know that there's a there's some sort of plan to remove what's hazardous retain the what's doing some work for us so that we don't lose land um and that is will be part of site stabilization this entire site will get
regraded um there's a a CMU like a concrete mystery wall on the left side that's doing something but is crumbling and fully so everything that's potentially hazardous crumbling uneven dead or diseased is coming out some old
HVAC units I think and some other random stuff um so there'll be kind of a clean slate there so if you had that clean slate we just wanted to make it usable for the immediate future while you're
continuing to work on a design if you want to imagine something that would just be improved while it's on its way to becoming complete what would you want to see there what would you what do you
think we need in Fington that we don't have now don't be limited by this initial phase conversation the key of course with that we obviously have space spaces in fields and in natural area what we don't have is space that overlooks the
water other than the Normandy yeah roarts park but that would be unbelievable if Yeah opening that well I think I mean that space kind of screams out for some homage to be paid to the Albertina the dock because that in essence is even if you look at our seal
is the Albertina the steamship history of goes back to the cap stand right i mean that's a singular thing that capand even if nothing else everybody would want to like do I like just buy my dog up there i mean it's not
the most slightly interesting though um no I'm thinking something that more or less you know recognizes the maritime history of Fair Haven which we kind of base a lot of our history on and that is right that's where it all happened but there
is some debate i don't know if you you've made progress on this yet whether or not it truly was the cap stand used for one of the fairies or if it or if it just happened to be acquired by a No I think Steve Smith said he had actual testimony from somebody that said it was
in their yard he emailed me was going to make it tonight he did mention that he had reached out to Little Was it the end of Baton Road or something like that down P little I and then write his Patrick oh yes yes um and then he's
he'll he'll kind of report back the next because I think that would be he didn't have anything to advise exactly i think that would be just to let us know that he has reached out and is hoping to get some response you just put a sign is not unlike the kind of caps that would be a
game changer if you had any kind of definitive that this was actually even if it was used in Russen and I was in fair or I think I mean I mean it's a pretty the way my recollection of it is and it's in a huge chunk of concrete so when the thing was actually installed
because they cut it out of the concrete it's still in the concrete so it wasn't just for bringing up a dinghy or something it was meant for some pretty significant moving something pretty significant that's what made me originally think it had something to do with the the actual you know Chandler's
doc we will find out a little more when Steve is back but I see it being used for by I mean I am one of these people that did hang out at the dock for more than two hours because we just we we hung out
there for we would go there at noon and leave at sunset and the kids would fish all day you know that kind of thing but I do see it as a place where people are actually just going to go do whatever they want to do whether it's picnic whether it's have a wedding
ceremony whether it's um you know have a gathering like the family members there i I don't I don't think there'll be any sports going on there right there's not going to be No there's a post sports party for the lacrosse football team and watch sunset
speaking of that I'll just digress few seconds uh my son's girlfriend from Germany and her family visited United States for the first time stayed with us for the weekend so they did the tour they went to the docks at the dock they came back and they said
"We saw something we don't understand." The boys lacrosse team did you hear about this no they had uh jugs of gallon jugs of milk all lined up along on the edge of
21 there and they did a relay and they drank the gallon milk ran to the end of the dock ran back tagged the next guy drank the milk oh my goodness and it was a big like at first
and I had no answer for them i said it must be some ritual it's probably like for the JV the varsity tournament because I know they do the like before the tournament starts they have yes I think that's they do the head shaving and all that on the dock really but so I
I laughed because I thought I laughed because I thought well this is the first time I' I've seen an actual event a relay well you know it brings it but what I a lot of the stories I'm a pretty good listener and I did not grow up here
so it seems like there are a lot of a lot of traditions the of the sort of informal sort play out down there at the dock and 21 well the football team I think has
been going there since like the 1970s pictures well I don't I that qualify i'm talking about more of the um how to characterize it sort of unsupervised sort of traditions
and I wonder why that is is it because everyone looks away is it because it is special and it's nobody's taking care of it does it feel like they can get you know is it you mean like shenanigans youthful shenanigans
i think it's a place they can go they're kind of away from everything it's really the I mean it's kind of a nice place to be and I think they uh I do not think it's limited to there there's that kind of stuff going on no they do that is a destination after certain practices and
tied it with the state championship that Okay see I I find that fascinating from a community standpoint because there's an entire field it's 50 acres they could go there and nobody would be bothered by them they would be out in the middle of nowhere and they'd have all sorts of
unsupervised room to do all sorts of things but there's something about this that it's more fun if people think about it hang out sort of like they're on display but not is it because it's something of a stage but people will look away is it there's but it's worth
exploring because not every place draws Yeah that type of get together maybe certain things are not meant to be exactly no the other thing though is there's the remnants of the old dock there i assume that something works to
get rid of that there's some people that you okay with that that looks dangerous that's a big expensive endeavor remove all those pilings you know yeah i don't know i don't know but they do look scary i mean some person you know on his
little motorboat he has no idea prevents any access yeah anyway okay so I think it's one of the sacred places that's what I think are there lessons learned and I saw we've mentioned that from the Roarts park you
know the intent of that park was similar right a passive park what are the lessons learned from that has it been a success is it being used the way people think it was going to be used or I I mean I hear
two personally I hear two things i hear um it's a little unfinished i think everybody recognizes there's some sight stabilization maybe shoreline oh yeah you know so there's it's not it's maybe not finished off all the way um I mean I hear stuff maybe that's
different but that we have some storm water issues there that do so we're getting erosion from the surge and we're getting erosion from the storm water so um anyway but from the residents I hear you like it it's probably underutilized
it doesn't really seem like many people one of the things that I've heard people say is it's not like you're fighting ground or that everybody falls there it's just a lot of people know about and and yeah that that seems to be the case
so um I can walk there and be by myself that's nice coffee water coming down yeah i think people like that aspect of it is there an idea on that road works park there
the benches and they're they've been dedicated to certain fair haven citizens who have passed away any idea uh for the 21 Fair Haven to do something similar you maybe raise money to subsidize some of that because I know that there's a couple of people that uh that would be
interested in that sure i'd be interested when I go I want my name on this convention um I I know that there is a a bench program in the works um I I don't
know here here's a question I would ask that's what is the appropriate if we agree that seating is valuable for 21 what kind of seating a variety of
seating tables as well chairs um should it be movable should it be stationary and fixed should it be more utilitarian less aesthetic like it's that's probably something gets filled in after the
overall use is sort of agreed upon i mean yes and no if you if if we want to achieve immediate accessibility meaning within the next year we want we don't want big chain across there that says it's not safe don't come on it right we
want it to be open and we want it to be usable will it be perfect and completely done probably not we know it won't be but seems to me seating would be important in even that initial but the robots
park on chairs and blankets and then you have your study done and then you get a a good design yeah and then you can run that design throughout the town and people can either approve it or you wouldn't want to do like a robots park
thing in that phase because that is plaques on stone i'm sure those are pretty pricey i'm changed the design you'd almost have to discard that unless you carry through yes I think that's a fair point i'm picturing the river that was the Riverside Park in Redbank
with a sloped hill um the one you know Yes it's Riverside Park that part and I believe there's they did something cool they have um walls like to break up the the slope the grave and
those walls are where people sit and gather it's really cute it's really sweet um and then it slopes down and then people bring their blankets and they hang out and then the chairs or the benches are right along the um the
um bulkhead and that's where the the benches are so um I don't think there's tables built in there i would love to see tables at town so were we talking before earlier about getting rid of the bulkhead and just having did didn't
somebody say not getting rid of the land no I don't think you'd be able to get rid of the bulkhead i think that's got to because the bulkhead looks pretty bad it's Yeah that's got to be replaced and uh No I was just curious i thought we said somebody said that just getting rid of it because that property is built up
it's different than Robarts robart's a natural beach and there's erosion issues as you mentioned there but it you know it sort of slopes down from the Normandy there that property has been filled so it's all sort of it's one level so you'd have to I think you'd have to maintain a
bulkhead or else you'd have real erosion problems yeah or get a new polit you know yeah that's definitely because I think it's made out of wood and small rotting we should in the next two months just I think just keep when we see things you like jot down what it is
where it is and maybe come back to me like what did we learn the last two months or a month and and just almost just keep like a working fabulous working and just if you accumulate pictures and thoughts and things like that and Sheila keeps them for you you can bring them out at meetings and share
them easily any old pictures historic pictures of I was just thinking I I mean um I have a lot some old historic waterfront uh pictures from town and then
try and incorporate it to make it not necessarily be wood like that but to look like that yeah yeah some of the old register articles where people were coming off the Albert routine and drunk and they were you know fighting that i've been reading a lot of
that 1881 so and so fell in yeah we were just up at Mount Mitchell because we brought my family up to see Mount Mitchell and the I love they have the signage there just like they did on the fairing dock the angled I don't know what the materials
in plexiglass and with the history of Mount Mitchell what you can see in your view um so I could picture it be a nice twin be a nice like mirror um at the book end to what's on the dock
and now we have a similar historical thing there that people could walk up to and read yeah I mean you definitely because it used to belong to Vanine um and um he owned that property there back in the early saloon yeah it it
started out as used to saloon yes there was Well that's why they go there that's the vibe they can smell it no that's the vibe they know maybe we You see no I'm not joking maybe that's the
Maybe we should see we get a saloon in there and call it the Vantine Saloon uh I want to see those pictures so Vantine was a person i'm right making some poison yes it was a poison
yes um and then they they had a Vantine hotel there not a big hotel i mean it was you know a little hotel little place probably like three people that came down on a trolley or something
anyway but I have a lot of I have a lot of information and I have to just like find it it's all in different places in my house but what I'm hearing is don't just um simmer on this for 12 months and also don't feel like we have to come
back next month with all but I think there's some Yeah let's get some process going to get these ideas we're going to keep it as a as an old business item every and we'll revisit it every month and and continue i think if certainly
historic photos from you know this commission and our town historian that would really help to inform the process and once we bring professionals in you know they don't know what you guys know right and but photos would help to um do
you know when I first moved here 40 years ago I was I didn't know anything about fair haven I know you didn't and I made sure that I learned everything that I could possibly ly learn and I've been I've been going through all my papers
at least 40 green bags of ripped papers i save everything and I'm finding stuff that I wrote back then you know about all the that's why I knew about Vantine house and the hotel and everything and Mr vanti I mean it's it's very
interesting that's why you never see me anymore so that's and that's Yeah yeah yeah oh wait oh my god so if you have a like a folder with photos I
just I look at them all the time i know anything I need you about i don't know what the hell I'm doing i'll bring a second just this shows it here i like I think that's a nice focus because it's not just everything historically buried in
it's it's what happened at that spot there's a hotel and when they say hotel it's not you know it was like probably four bedrooms or something it was a hotel by the way Christopher Christopher
Dowy his statue in Memorial Park is he was you know he was killed in World War I and it's his mother who advocated and they put the statue up um to honor him and all people who died in the first war she put
the flag the flag up yeah i found an article that when he was 15 years old he got into some shenanigans um at the dock i forgot what he because there was a love this um and whoever the other name was um
were recommended for jumping off the jumping off the dock that was it chandler Chandler it might have been i don't know but I remember at the time my thought was and then two years later he was going to World War I and he never graduated from high school but so yeah I
think you're right i think there is some magnetic approval it's a little history does that any other thoughts comments about 21 Susan i know oh yeah
wait a second here's the girl ask her anything i know right you grew up in Fair Haven what' you use the dock for back in the day i didn't okay what do you know of it being used for back in the day well I think my daughter and her
friends used to go down to the dock i'll have to ask her what they did and I'll have to ask about whatever these traditions are for the sports teams if she knows anything yeah I would love to know what she has to
say my hearing is bad all right any uh comments on Zooms is anybody There is somebody okay um the only other piece of business on this
topic for 21 is that our grant application one component uh includes uh letters of support so we have a template with um just it's a template you can do with it whatever you want you can change
it it obviously should be specific to the purview of the historic preservation commission but it's something to get you started um and we that we would need it until June but in in in an effort to have a full community support for the
application for just this initial phase which would we still didn't really maybe expand it a little bit more we could we talk about we talked about seating we talked about the site stabilization work is separate from what kinds of things we
can look to occur there i I'll give you an idea um um because we know that initial phase would probably not be complete and that to get to completeness is more analysis more design and more community input it
might be interesting to think of some sort of kiosk system that could enga the public could engage with and provide comment real time live while they're actually on site um or even something simpler but the
idea is if you're there and you have your own thoughts you can share them um um seating has come up over and over again as far as this initial wave of improvements for access i do like the spirit of what you said though about it
invest too much in something that we know is going to change over time um those could be cool to have some chairs that are easily moved um so anything that you think of over let's call the next 60 days where are we
it's it's April so there's only one meeting in between June well let's assume you can use June for your discussions as well as long as that comments and contributions can be conveyed your is your meeting the third week i
want to say it's a Thursday the next meeting is Thursday 5:29 529 and then there's a store with all right well I ask all the members to think
about it get ideas and you know we'll start zeroing in on some Are there dates already for the open houses or no um there'll be at least two in May and we don't have Yeah if you think we have a deadline you know we we've realized it's
it's not as though we have a big set of drawings for everyone to comment on that's hard so we have to figure out what that openhouse format looks like and hopefully our professionals will be on board to help facilitate that yeah but
we don't have them yet so there's a lot of things to It's a challenge because it's it's it's people will definitely come with ideas of what they don't want sure based on their own whatever and then it's one and it's such a new piece of land and nobody can it's hard to
visualize it because it's got I think probably once the house is done and you see how much is there then I mean how much space you have then I can't wait till that I I will tell you Katie when you were talking about that river the Riverside Gardens Park in um Redbank and
I was there when when we did that park and the the house was there that had to be moved and hit the overhead had why they accounted for all these it was such a mess and but we got it done and
um but the the same terrorists it's much could be much smaller but the there's if you look at 21 without the hospital there you have to imagine there's a hill you know the grade change is pretty significantly from it's basically at
grade it's at the level of the water almost a little bit up but and then if you can Sure the house is on Fair Road i don't know what that rate change is but it's enough to potentially accommodate a couple terraces for meeting i think that would be potent you know I'm just
letting you know that for since you had that idea farther back but that's the other thing the water's going to come up we're going to we're going to the river's going to be on that site when you walk up that hill
from the dock up it's like I I say "Thank you God for doing that because everybody on Fair Haven Road and thereabouts there's no water ever from that those big um Yeah storms it doesn't come up it doesn't come up i mean it's
probably 20 feet I'm going to guess you know but we'll get that information um when we get some of the other pieces of analysis that we're waiting for might I might have the top handy out see if I can get it back okay anything
else um I think that u spend a bit of time on these things so unless anybody has any other comments I'll make a um any comments on any general issues from the public susan I'll make a motion to adjourn
how about the Oh yes uh I make a motion to approve the minutes sorry about that Mr mr sora i have you have to stand casey and
it's um the minutes um yes and yes these are all the names okay very good Mr chairman for the bill uh for my clarification
um I'm just going to ask you to identify the communications that I can anticipate and confirm that they'll be I'll be copied so I know to go into action after you send it yeah the communication is going to be uh based on the recommendations are made by the historic association for the place
from Dwind and just sort of an appeal to uh utilize the professionals that are involved you know that sort of the consensus is uh that it go into the um that be uh repurposed um
in conjunction with the community center and that thought be given at this stage as to how it's going to be utilized with input from all the design professionals that are being utilized for the purpose of the interior design okay was there
any other is there anything else and I think we also said I can't do specific Oh sorry go ahead no just one i don't think anything was flat for the light if there's any way that the the use of it as actual window would like not flat up
against a wall oh I don't in a window no no wherever if it's hung so that um Oh I see maybe that's impossible it'll be flat up against a wall I think yes but I think you can have it oh blet yes I'm sorry you can you can back light
it you are correct yes you are correct um I think there'll be time for that level of granularity for you guys to weigh in initially getting the location figured out was there another memo i can't recall that's why I asked you talked about 21 but I don't think we're really at that level yet and we're not
really going to take any position on the cap stand yet no I think I think you're I think your thoughts have been conveyed which is why okay thank you good everybody thank you