Okay, this is uh the regular meeting of the Fair Haven Historic Preservation Commission. Adequate notice of meeting has been given pursuance to the provisions of the Open Public Meetings Act. At the time of the board reorganization in January of this year, the board adopted a regular meeting schedule for the year. Notice of the
schedule was sent to and published in the Asbury Park Press on January 31st, 2025 in the Two River Times on January 23rd, 2025. And that notice was also posted on the bulletin board in Burough Hall and has remained continuously posted there as required by the statute.
A copy of the notice is and has been available to the public and is on file at the office of the burough clerk. A copy of the notice has also been sent to the members of the public as has been requested. Such information in accordance with statute adequate notice having been given the board secretary is
like to include this statement in the minutes of the meeting. Can we get a roll call? Yes. Here. Yes. Mr. Anderson here. Mr. Slud here. Mr.
Mrs. Macey here. Mr. SM and here okay um new business we have uh it's actually a new application but it's
technically old business since we saw Mr. Ner last week Nzer and that matter is 28A Gillespie Avenue block 51 lot 32 and the application is for moving the front door from the area
adjacent uh to where there is an existed window and vice versa as contained in the application. So it obviously you were before us last month on an informal and you presented a couple of ideas with regard to preserving the front door, getting a new
front door. Um that was sort of the one issue that was sort of up in the air. Yeah. Um I guess we can kind of start with discussing that issue. How did that turn out? Well, I've decided for a few reasons to try to keep the existing door and window. I like them both. I've always liked them
and for expediency purposes. Um It'd be a little quicker, a lot quicker and a little easier just to keep what I've got and flip it. Should I change my mind? Sometime I'd reapply and show everybody what I was thinking about. But uh
and thanks for revisiting the informal application and back earlier this month I as you said applied for a formal application in which I with Shield's help put a few pictures together of what I proposed to the flip block. Yep. And
they should be infected. Yes. Um so it's pretty cut and dry as far as that's the door and that's the window. And um
my proposal is to move the door where the window is and move the window to where the door currently is. How about the storm door? What uh what's the plan as far as keep that? Mhm. Yes. Obviously it has utility too. I would imagine it does summertime screens and so forth. I
can do that. Um and everything fits. Everything is fine. So, one of the things I did notice because I know that there was an issue with regard to whether or not it was visible from Gillespie Avenue. And uh I did happen to notice that I didn't look that not necessarily the the door where it's located now because it's sort of a
uh you know faces away from Gillespie Avenue, but certainly the window will be there. So, this replacement door will be in the place of that window. And although it's not plainly visible, it is visible from Gillespie Avenue. Um I I think we all kind of uh looked at it and talked about it at length last time.
house is contributing. It's got an interesting story as its relation with its relationship to that fish camp that you're describing. Um obviously it's something I think that we talked about also that it provides maybe some more symmetry to the house. It certainly
doesn't negatively impact the facade. Um so I I think it's uh it's a no impact but more utility addition and I think that you know it's my thought that that we should approve it in full. I don't know what anybody else thinks on the commission. I I think we're all in
support of it. I think the there's no net difference in where the prior location and the new location and in fact seem to be ideal itself and I'm glad to hear that you you're going to be restoring that. It is now with some
additional pictures of it's a very charming door of course part of the character and the history of the home. So I I think very supportive. Thank you. I would think that door is probably original to the house, do you think? Yeah, it's
pretty close. It's uh What was the year of construction again? 1927. 1927. Yeah. The fell that's working on the house, he said with a little bit of his help. I mean, I tried to fix it up about two years ago to get it to look this good, but he's better at things than I
am, and I'm confident he could take it off in a few hours with this and that, sand, little fresh paint. Who's the gentleman who's uh working in my kitchen for the cabinets? He's a general contractor.
Yeah. Any other thoughts or comments from the commission? I really appreciate it. Makes more sense to walk up those steps and right to the door instead of making left turn. It was always been a little bit worse. It almost seems like when that decision was originally made that they uh maybe
didn't think it through well enough because it seemed logically going up your stairs that that would be the place to walk in. But exactly, who knows what the thought was there. Any thoughts from the uh audience? Comments from the audience? Anybody from uh on Zoom?
No. Okay. I will make a motion that we approve in full the application of Henry Nzer uh to move the front door or exchange uh the front door for the uh front window. Uh and that the window be
placed where the existing door is and the door be moved to the facade front where the existing window is as depicted in the application and in the attached photos. I'll second that motion. Mr. Pap, yes. [Music]
Yes. Mr. Anderson, yes. Mr. Clear, yes. Mr. Heler, yes. Mrs. Casey. Yes. Yes. Okay. Congrats. Well, thank you very much. Get to work tonight.
Thanks for walking me through the process couple months ago and not a problem at all. Oh, yeah. Pleasure. You as well. Thanks for the decision. I wish you a lovely night.
And to get out of this chair, right? Don't want to rush. Thank you. The next application is Rhett Federo, 66 to Normandy Avenue, block 48, lot 7. Uh this application, which we have seen
before as a formal application to approve the construction, uh is for proposal to change the previously approved plans. The attic window, specifically on the north side of the structure, is uh proposed to be converted to a recess balcony with a
painted wood railing and French doors. Yeah. Just identify yourself. Okay. Hi. Hey, good. Just identify yourself. Anthony Fonduras, Architect. How are you? Good. So, I did receive a call from
Anthony uh about uh this application and u of course whether or not it was necessary to come back. Obviously, uh we had spent a good amount of time if I recall. This was an informal application originally. Um I did ask Sheila and we were provided a copy of our August 29th,
2024 memorandum of action which pretty much the exception of a couple changes I think as to molding and maybe with regard to the pitch of the front roof we approved in full. I think all it was a real nice proposed structure and we've definitely enhanced
the uh the neighborhood. Um but there's there's a specific tweak I guess that somehow along the way came about and uh as I indicated on our phone call it is something since it is visible from the street uh that street being to Normandy and since it is a modification to the presented plans it was necessary for you
to come back to us. So with that being said he could present. Sure. Yeah. And and I'll just I'll why are you here? So um subsequent to our approval last time we submitted for permit knowing we have to look for variance um once we got the
permit variance they wanted the 12 hearing per reason and tweaks and things. So the the tweak that we're making on the the par is to comply with the square foot
surface area. We had to shrink that a little bit. Um, and in order to do that, um, pulled some interior things in the back. And then we need to grab a couple extra square foot. So, we decided, okay, maybe this is a good idea to kind of
shrink the surface area on the third floor to comply with the functional engineer said the idea. So, that accomplishes uh brings back your habitable floor area by it's considered I guess a porch, correct? Yes.
space. Yes. How many square feet? Probably some there as opposed to the other side. I didn't get a question. Oh, um the point I was making, sorry, um that the the recess porch there happens to face
the river. Yes. So, it takes advantage of that that view there as well. I imagine that probably started thinking and putting it there where the office, right? It wouldn't make sense to do it there, of course. Yeah. Yeah. And that's where the the stairs come up. So, if you
were to go the stairs, right? The little nook area. I was like, "Okay, we can shrink that surface area by putting the points there that did have you brought it within the square footage that would be necessary." Yes, we did. So, um is that the only thing that is uh hanging around as far
as the uh planning board zoning board? had a long list of things that he wanted from us and that he has a different way of interpreting square footage than than I did. So, uh in his eyes we had too much. So, I found ways to reduce it and that's that's how we did it. Yeah. I
mean uh obviously the plan hasn't materially changed. This is just a small little element. It's it faces the river but it obviously faces the river um and the park uh at an angle that it is visible from Normandy. Uh but I don't see any real material change to the
nature of the structure. Um I mean it obviously exchanges the window for this uh little porch, but it's so minimal in its recess that it wasn't anything that actually led me to think that you see the Yeah. Yeah. In a in a smaller
version, not in a not in this version. But at least it wasn't anything that uh they appear detrimental to me. So, um, Jay, with that, I will let you. Um, well, you know, you you know, it was a
great length of the building to have it be consistent with the uh with the district and I think we were all, you know, very encouraged by that. um you generate appreciation
and you know it's and so but my thought on that is that um the base of it is something that's a little inconsistent with the rest of the
house. Not that some of these older homes you can get modified over time is although this house didn't have back then we take them
out in the next three years and so my my thought is that uh I think it makes sense to make it compense to have a torch looking after the water, but I'm wondering if there's some other
way of changing that that would be and I'm really talking about whether you follow that line whether I mean again you want to stay as consistent what you've already done there and so that that kind of I mean it
doesn't hurt the flag power to be able to get access. Yeah. Yeah. just went on a couple of certainly that is something consistent
with a number of researches right or whether [Music] taking up the same footprint uh but um just rethinking
again And we have the plantation the shutters on the porch and all that reason why I
as understanding that there's a need both for zoning and I would say it's god it's a great thing to have out there. But you know I think you something that is
a good sustainability. So I appreciate that. I left that beautiful house and pass consideration to make some presence
assistant people think outside [Music] I think that just that shape seems to uh certainly it's not at that period the grand shingle ones where you have a big
half arch you know Yeah. Yeah. Which which are cool. I I had a version with an arch. But you know maybe a smaller one like a palladium one but still keeping that. So that might mean two posts come
that is almost to match. I mean I I certainly see what you're saying Jay. Uh you know to match obviously the gable in the front something. I mean because that's the biggest that's the biggest uh issue right there. Um yeah,
is there enough room to do that? Because obviously Well, we can I'll have to It looks like there might be. And again, I don't mean to report, but I just said you put so much care into everything and we all have these slots. I think it's a
great thing to have for zoning and for just the appeal to have it. My god, it's not not what I didn't anything like everything's the right thing to do like just go ahead and do that. Well, it certainly would make this make it look better.
This is what Jay's talking about. Right. You guys talking about whether or not that's something I mean obviously the two columns would be that you know that would be ideal. Yeah. That house is completely angular
as well. There's no there's no angle anywhere in that house. I mean it's all angular rather. It's not circular. I can't see if I tie it into the club and probably I mean the only thing it does kind of I mean there is that faceted end on the uh
the side of the house right that it sort of draws some symmetry with but um would it be practical Jay to have something that I mean the roof line be consistent with the front table. It just would take up too much vertical space.
Although we should probably see I think it's probably something [Music] or going straight across. I mean, but I'm worried Let me ask Right.
Yeah. Too narrow. That was a that was better than the first. Um yeah, I mean I think that's better than than the um uh the street and again it's uh
slightly out of here to the front but you know number you saw renovated over you know 150 years and and were brought to some prevailing you know pace and and whatnot. Yeah. Um but that you know that I think I think it would be something
that's a little bit more consistent with it. So whether it's so either that or might be fine with you I guess what was that you were mentioning maybe column I think that probably looks better but uh
one word and then I think that you soften that side and take it away from all the other wonderful Yeah. And and the other thing that I was thinking was that, you know, this the house that's existing right now is a
mid-century Cape Cod. Nothing against mid-century Cape Cods for certain it's a great house. Uh but just what you're proposing here, um even though it's not a historic house, much it's much more consistent with a lot of the other houses um you know, in the in the
district. And um you know, a little bit of leeway has to give with the fact that it's new construction. we've been willing to comply with the uh with the commission and uh and again we're not preserving a structure obviously we want to make something consistent to the extent that we have the ability but it's not like there's a preservation of an
existing structure actually no matter how this plays out whether it's the original or whether the one even proposed so much of a an improvement over what's there uh as it relates to the you know consistency of the um district but if you have uh a specific
um motion you want to make with a particular dimension or a particular depiction of it. Whether you want maybe that's the way to accomplish unless you have to unless you think that it needs I'm a little concerned about the blading one being a little more restrictive though. I'm not sure how well it's going to fit once you actually draw it. That's
the only reason is that something you guys have to figure out. I think well that's the bladed one. The arch one that I that he just showed you that one works but because of the column. I think without the columns it looks like it's missing something. Yeah.
Right. Yeah. So I think either the rounded one or having some kind of finers trying to think of what you have. I mean you have you have square. Yeah. Yeah. I mean scale down
there's a we can fit the one that line then we'll do that one. If it doesn't fit, then they'll show you that. You kind of have to pick one. All right. Not kind of. You do. Yes.
Well, I I would prefer the just because it's a little more open, but I'd rather do which one that you guys are going to say yes to. I don't know. Did you see this? I don't think Yeah.
actually now that I'm looking at it just maybe the gentle curve might even be better. I mean hypothetically somebody right this might be too busy
right and that seems to be the only place they have uh we we don't yeah we don't That that might have been just that was part of the we could especially
Yeah, that was part of that 3D model that we can certainly eliminate. Is it is it shingle or is it ship? It actually is depicted as having blackboard pretty similar to
[Music] Yeah. It's gonna be Yeah. Okay. If you want to make a um make make it just make it specific though like with however with as much specificity as you can so there's yeah so we know well
and we could with you sending this that sketch so we can have it be a part of the record. So I I like to make a motion to accept the uh recessed area on the attic level.
Please uh with the caveat that it would be uh a curved um layout that is provided by the architect and the drawings which will be forwarded to the to the board. uh rather than the
street one that this presenter did this year. So you want I can email that to you guys or Yeah, you you'd email it to Sheila the curve I'll email the image of that curve version. Okay. And maybe even better is in
two dimension. Yeah. Yeah. Sure. Okay. I'll second the motion. Um, yes. Mr. Yes. Yes. Mr. Yes. Mr.
Yes. And yes. See what happens. All right. Step by step. Thank you everybody. All right. Uh the next matter is an informal um not technically an informal
application but it's Steven Saraf and it has to do with 470 River Road 17 lot 12 and it basically is uh bringing to the commission a general discussion to learn the guidelines on obtaining a century home plaque for their 118year-old home
which was researched via Mammoth County Archives. I'm trying to collect photos of the house I'm trying to think. Um, I don't know exactly which house is yours. So, it's on the corner of River and Hance.
Um, so the corner of Lexington and River is where I know that white house were right. Oh, okay. And 118 years old. So, what do you know about the history of the place? Fascinating. Um, so I did some research with Mon
County Archives. Um, got all the way back to 1907. Um, found out that there were a couple of builders who were very common in the area and worked with a lot of properties
in a lot of homes. Um, Theodore White. White. Um, another one was uh William Sewing Jr. and um they actually sold houses to each other and to others. Um,
I learned at the archives that it's difficult to trace owners through the Great Depression because um, properties changed hands quite often. Uh but we were very lucky that um Annie Striker
owned um this home for 48 years from 1913 to 1961. Um we're the only the fifth owners of the house. So another owner actually right before us um Henry Thomas um was in the
home for 32 and a half years. But we found some articles online. One of the owners passed away in the home and um they had the funeral right in the home with an officient from Little Silver. Um a hundred people attended. So
there was an article before the funeral and an article after the funeral. Um so we found that very interesting. Yeah, it's also really fascinating too because I I forget which one of the owners but I think maybe two of them. One one was like the superintendent or some kind of
foreman. It was now the first state. Yeah. And then there was another owner that he was a superintendent somewhere else and you know a state and it's probably you know still on the county register. So it it really fascinated me that oh this common you know forest
warehouse you know you think anything of it maybe an eyesore knock it down whatever but there's some really amazing history in it county history you know it's like it'd be nice to at least recognize that and say hey this house has a little bit of significance
beyond being this old eye right and you were were all the deeds online or did they I don't even know how far back they Exactly. So the archives um go from now back to about 1970 and then there's a big gap from between 1900 and 1970 where
everything is on microfilm and you have to go in person. Were you able to connect those dots? Day off work and and spent about half the day there. Um, the archives are actually in the basement level of the Mon County Library headquarters in
Mountain and I worked with a a young man, an employee there who um was an undergraduate and graduate student at Mammoth University and I worked there. So we had a nice connection um and and chat but um so so the concept of the
century house was something that and Pat will be able to tell us a little bit more about it. It's something that even predates the historic association and predates this commission. It was private group of people that basically um well you you'll tell it better than I do but they got together for the purpose of recognizing and appreciating the houses
which were then century houses. That was probably in the 80s. you know, it's a moving goalpost in terms of how if you're a century house and if you were able to prove in fact that the house was 100 years old and some people did it from a variety of ways, showing construction materials, showing
newspaper clippings, uh photo albums, family photo albums, and then it was up to this group to decide whether or not you you'd established it um and then to award the plaque. E easiest thing to do is doing the granular grantee index.
That was easy. Well, sometimes it's easier than others. Yeah. Yeah. But I I found that that was the easiest thing to do. So, um it is not something that the Preservation Commission has ever been involved in. And uh nor is it really something that I think that we're moving to get involved in at this point, but we
wanted to bring you in because we wanted to answer your questions, want to learn a little bit more about your house. And it's kind of, you know, sort of up our alley a little bit. But I do uh we do have representatives from the uh Fair Haven Historic Association which is uh it's a not associated with the burrow
and I think that they're making inroads to kind of resurrect that Century House pro uh the plaque program and uh Elise Casey's here on behalf of the association. She wears two hats. She's on the commission. She's also the president of the association. And I know
that they're kind of putting that it's in the origins of putting it together and she'll be able to explain a little bit more all the press to give out to people. So we have plaques that were waiting to go waiting to come to me. So do you have any insight in that Elise in terms of what the plans are even
though they might not be finalized in terms of how you want to do that? They they put them it's a century plaque. They have to prove that it's a century plaque by going to to the grand kind of thing. It goes right on the front door. Yeah.
I don't think so. I mine is like I don't even I think it's on the right side. I'm not sure. Depends on your political affiliation. I have some people could write. Yeah. No, I do have some plaques available,
but you have to prove that you've gone through that whole thing. And it's it's kind of fun to do. It really fascinating. She came home from the from the you know the archives. She's all charged up about this. So I'm like tell
me more and then it's like this person died there. It's like oh great you know it's it's really fascinating. It is. Yeah, it really is. And and so what you were saying, you know, there's things that we found in the house, you know, it's like this is old stuff. We
found a whenever we redid the porch in one columns, they dropped a a roll of string and it was down the bottom of the column and you know what happened at the secretar's desk, you know, on display. This is perfectly preserved of string. It's just amazing
bottles points. Yeah. you know, and then it's almost like just knock the police down so you don't have to see all this history, you know, you know, that's the way it is. It's so fascinating. Sure. So, what information can we give in the lease in terms of uh you know, just how what's happening or
what's like sort of the program or what do you think about that? People have reached out recently asking if they qualify. Um, so it would be a matter of us collecting some of them and
and then reaching out. I can give you my contact information and then yeah, just present you maybe put it together just you know and submit the applic.
Yeah. So I was like one of these things when I look, you know, I checked it out and so I only gave away about four or five in all these years. No one, you know, someone has to like tell people that
this is a possibility. I have a question about that. Is there is that adjust to the age of the house or anything to do with retention of the original feature? No. No, it's just the the time. So Pat, if you um are obviously you're a
trustee of the um of the association and still involved, you want to uh entertain this if you have the plaques if you're satisfied that this house. Yes, I would love it. And I've talked to a couple of people that said they were going to because you do they do have to prove it that they they have the house, you know.
So here are your people and maybe you want to change information. copy of this is the granter grantee and the date set perfect newspaper. So maybe we should put together a report. That would be that would be great. I mean I'm getting old
doing all this. Are all the deeds raised seal? Pat insists I think raised seal. Not probably two dozen of these brass plaques. And I'm waiting to, you know, I've been waiting for years for people to say, "Hey, so maybe we should tell
them, you know." Yeah. Well, this is great. So, I'm glad that we that you got together. Maybe you want to just uh however the easiest way, maybe a phone, either phone or an email, how you guys can connect with one another. No. So there's no like M kind registration
or this is all new to me. So I've always been curious too. That's why I'm wondering. You don't have to like No, it's it's not associated with Mama County. Different towns have different standards for I just learned a little bit about Robson. They have it pretty formalized and they have actually a
catalog of all the century houses and they do. That's what I call. Okay. So it's town by town. I'll bring a couple of those brass plaques to show everybody because it would be nice to have it. I have one at my house. Yeah, I have I actually had um
a friend of mine just recently asked me about it and I said I have no idea but I'll get information. So I will let her know as well. So I have said all the Yes. Yeah. You want Is that the best way?
They'll put it They'll put these do these things together in a document and send it to you. Yeah. Your email is or you want to give them your email? Okay. Yeah, that's fine. You want to do it? So, um what year is that? Well, we got
back to 1907. Um, I was a little unclear on if um it's in there's several blocks now in River Road that were known as East Side Park and um they were like a large area was
divided into plots. So, I think my understanding is that our plot was established in 1907. So, the house probably came a little bit later, but I think the property was purchased for
$900. There was an estimate that the home was going to cost $4,000 to build. Mr. There's something about you have is there any stained glass or what the banisters in the house? What
are the banisters like? No, we didn't find anything. We had an addition. We actually it was worthwhile, but we made it look like it fit with the house and recently
replaced it with this. You know, we still got the diamond lights in the in the hub sash and you know, make sure the trim was on the original way. The guy that did it was probably he was probably in because I was like, I wanted this this way or this way.
Um, how about the banister and the stairs? You know, sometimes Yeah, it's all original. Unfortunately, the I don't know if it's good or bad. The people painted everything. They didn't prepare it properly and now everything feels solid. Mhm. But the problem with that is
that there's so much labor that I want to end up actually went to plumber and not I took a piece of it and I said how much would it cost to get some of this you
know custom that was reasonable at piece you know going to right is it chestnut do you know I don't think it is not the bans may be chestnut but I think a lot of this, you know, fur or something. Yeah.
I mean, 1903 to like 1910, there's a flurry of building, you know, a lot of chestnut being used and a lot of these builders, they, you know, between like the banisters and the stairs and some of the stained glass, they kind of have their own trademarks and uh, you know, sort of sort of see similarities,
especially in the banisters. We really like this setup actually. Maybe you walk into the living room and you're facing a fireplace. Then off to the left there's two steps that go up to a landing where we put our Christmas tree and it faces the front window and then um stairs go
up to a landing and turn. So it kind of makes an go up. Nice. You know today people wasted space. Yeah. Yeah. Right. How long have you guys lived there? team. I'm trying to
Great. So, you have the information, you have put it together and um thank you very much for coming in. It's an interesting story and very nice meeting you. [Music] Excellent. Thank you. Right. So, we have um
why don't we flip it around and council person Cole, would you like to come on up? Um so, let's talk about the historic let's get let's go to the historic association first because that you know lead us into
by Centennial Hall and then we have a couple of specific items with regard to by Centennial Hall. So, I don't see Katie. So, you're you're it right now. as long as I talked about.
Okay. So, let's start with that. the Goldstein partnership, we were provided the copy of the uh it's the April um 7, 2025 proposal. Um tell us about it.
probably recall Matt Cronin who's the architect who is working on the building with the ADA work. Um the next bucket of work here is what we've been calling the punch list which is a number of things I don't typically call punch list but it
kind of random and somewhat desired but they go together and it will help complete um our bsentennial hall thus punch list and the number did not
reach a big threshold, but it did it did exceed the the need to re 6,600 I think is the the the threshold if you go over that you have to get quotes um to
taxpayers of course that's the reason you have these quotes in you the bid threshold you got everyone to bid and require to take the lowest bidder qualify bidder so we exceeded the 6,600 threshold and had to get two quotes. One was from Matt Cronin and one was from
the Eli Goldstein um group probably appropriate to say led by Lauren who has had some experience in life that um that Eli's group had the better price
as is part they were awarded the contract for the punch list and I can say there's some language in in the resolution that um are in the um there's
some language in there, but it's not very specific as to what work is. Um it touches on some things, but all things and there's going to be a sort of followup discussion what needs to be included in that just in case there are some specifics that have fallen off the
list. And that was this was just approved um was it was it approved yet last night? help us. Okay. Yeah. I mean in align with what we've talked about, you know, obviously the specifics and the financial aspects.
It's something not that we're involved in. You wearing two hats. Are you satisfied that the things that the commission has expressed in concern and the association has brought to everybody's attention are being accomplished by what the Goldstein partnership is uh going to address. I
think the Goldstein group is taking its direction from Christo who of course takes its direction from the council. Um we work with this committee structure in our local government. So that direction probably going to come from a committee but it can be informed by informal
bodies you know advisory can be informed by other council people. Um, I see some things that will probably because it refers to exterior. I mean, that's going to include paint and it's the dedicated bicycle parking area
or landscaping around the generator and tracking closures and things like that. All of which is good and appropriate. Um, there are some things that aren't on there such as reinstalling the doors that are doing stairs. I don't think it references um repair and replacement of
the locks in the front door. So, they're not, you know, gigantic oversightes, but there's just a couple things that probably should be made sure that we capture. um this group will now have to put it
together to that what their role is is to identify and put together the component of the bid package that um think like an Oreo that our in-house engineer will do the front end of the bid package and the back end. It's all
you know it's the same stuff that is always in our bid packages. It's the language required and the employment obligations and people etc. So all that stuff, but the specifics of the work to be done here is going to be crafted by an architect and I think that's a good
thing. Yes. Yeah. Um so we have a little time, not much. I think this is the right meeting and probably this is the right meeting to kind of capture any thoughts you might have about what things are not included in there because you don't have anything to
go by other than the fact that it references external work. I would say collect give me and shill of course your thoughts about what should be in the punch list that might not be. Now I reference two things that I know are not in there but in terms of internal
um attention that we know the basement needs attention um water issues have been resolved in the basements. Yes. What attention in the basement? Oh, we clean up and we have distribution just
ensure that it's painted and or sealed. Um, so it's completely clean. And is it in the same corner here at Oris? Yeah. Yeah. Over there. Well, has it been rectified? Yes. Okay. What did they
have to do to rectify it? It it was a combination of things, but the way the um the ramp interfaced with the building, the flashing had either failed or wasn't it wasn't done correctly or over time and it just So your question
about the flashing I didn't get to see it myself but the combination of the grading which you know kind of and then the installation of the ramp and where interface was going to create it with their vulnerabilities and the water
finds its way. Does this include um Yeah, it's going to work. Does that include painting? Yeah. And does so does the paint analysis part of this not too? I'm not aware that it is. Yeah.
So, they would do a house. I mean, I think we should make sure it's in your minutes and that um there's some communication from this body to the governing body. Um, and then like I did last night with your transom memorandum that's on the
record and uh when it's time I don't set the agenda, the mayor and Allison set the agenda. But um it's on the record as an item for the council to discuss and decide at a time when it's appropriate to come on the agenda. Yeah, I mean obviously the paint is the one thing
that comes to my mind too because we've been discussing it. We've actually done a little bit of leg work on it. Um I know it may be premature. um at this point, but uh I guess there's no harm in bringing it to the council's attention. At this point, it's something that they are aware that the commission wants to
weigh in on or at least have some say or um something to say about it depending on however the decision is made as to what the paint color will be. Um so yeah, I have no problem with uh putting something together just indicating that the exterior paint is something that the
commission wants to have some say in. Uh I mean, I think it's in The the language is plain in the ordinance. While the commission doesn't own the building, it's owned by the people and the government has jurisdiction over it. A piece of this jurisdiction is assigned to the historic presentation commission
and that includes the exterior uh this building. So it's within your jurisdiction. Any uh anybody have any other thoughts of things that may have not been included that you'd like to have included? I mean that's the one, you know, in terms of that painting the basement things. That's a little bit of
micromanaging I think. I don't think anybody has any comments or wants to weigh in on um the land portion of the landscape that's been identified in this scope has to do with um
clean up. Um, I mean, I do have a You guys really studied the fight? It slopes away pretty steeply. I mean, it's interesting. I don't know how
it happened. Um, so there's We'd want to make sure that that flow was stabilized. The trees are obviously held in place. So there's probably going to be a little bit of a judgment call, but
um it's generally considered cleanup is the way it's I would characterize it. But on that note, um the historic preservation or the uh historic association um the board of directors voted to make
a donation to fair and um the initial conversation which was locked by was to propose a donation of a completed landscape design for bicentennial wall with the hopes that that would be completed by our 250th
by July summer 2026. And um that initial presentation with me then endorsed by the council now will go and interview landscape architect. Actually would love any suggestions this commission has in the way of landscape
architect if they've worked with any of um and we'll go step by step with this commission and the board of directors that historic association and the council. So we'll review proposals. Um
we'll look for you know some input as we get you set full you know plans fail you and then um aim to remotely design again improvements along the way it's going to take a little time but I think we're starting just in time all right that's a
long answer to question that's what's going on sticking with the paint color issue Steve you um we at our last meeting we talked about maybe reaching out and trying acquired some resources to help us with uh the selection process. Um Steve sent an email. Maybe
you want to explain your efforts and what Yeah. uh I a friend who's a president of an architectural firm has some really significant Star Washington. And she basically she basically said
that she said we almost paint sometimes what is normally dependronology for restoration decision Maybe you could put it through you can make it suggest that
analysis to identify paint and colors be part of this project right now sounds like I don't think it's in there now well I about 30 but 35 years ago I put
well the last um you know piece of wood and I took it home and I had it I gave it to a person that analyzed this. They could have missed conf whatever they did
and they they said that the the color was the proper color that that was the original color of of his soldier. It was like a dark green. Is there any documentation? No, nothing. I mean back
35 years ago like like you know painted every every photo I've seen has been like a light color. Have there been any photos or has anybody indicated they've seen photos that show it in like in the green color? It's kind of tough because obviously it's all black and white but it's hard because even if it's green it
would look lighter. Yeah. And that's kind of so I sent an I reached out to Alec uh to Pavlov to Mark Pavlov and he has yet to get back in touch with but also Joe Zla who's a curator over at the um Mama County Historic Association. Joe Zla Joe Zla
and he respond I guess their phones are out or something but nevertheless he shot me an email and indicating um you know that same thing that most of the early colors look like on the tan side or on the white side but it's very hard to tell because it's all black and white uh that they would look in their
archives to see if there's any postcards. That's obviously was a big thing you know around the turn of the century and in antiquity if you will to have these postcards. Um, so he was going to look into that. And then uh he also mentioned uh speaking with some of the people from the park commission,
parks commission because they're responsible for maintaining historic buildings and they may have worked with people that are involved in the um in the um the paint aspect of preserving. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm wait that's pretty recent stuff. So I guess we'll wait and
see what happens and what we can come up with as far as that's concerned. I mean it is really interesting the color back then very different days than what it is today and what it was the teens and 20s or 50s you know uh it's always an
interesting the colors for everybody's house yeah more so that was just you know the church case in point look at the train
Yeah. Yeah. That's that's a really good example. Very simple. And I think if you're if you're doing a color as though it's not really about churches, it's about African-American churches in the period. So that's the idea that one
wanted to respect uh and recognize what it was in urban years. I suppose that changed public that also represents what the African-American community was doing. But it it's I don't think it should be a reflection of what the residential
neighborhood does unless that is something connected to the American African-American community because that's the reason it's a historic church. So So the generic pain or generic way of looking at it will not get us to
where we want to be to really uh respect the integrity of what this building was at the time. I I'm kind of taking a responsibility for it because when I picked up that piece of chip on
the bottom rim of this building, I just said, "Hey, here, you know, go check check it out, you know, see what the original color was on." I never paid attention to it or anything. We gave it
to somebody who did that and um it wasn't I'm sorry to when they uh with that chip I mean did you feel comfortable it was one of the original? Yes, because it was when we took the chip off, it was the
original piece of wood, no paint at all on it. And so there was obviously layers of different color paints. And so that's why I I knew that I I mean, you know, um I thought that should be examined and
and so it was it was given off to somebody and I lost contact with all that. So it was somebody else was doing it. I don't know who it was. I wasn't that excited about it. You know, I didn't know it was going
to be that responsible. So, any other any other issues that anybody feels want to just to say I don't know how expensive it is and maybe it's not outrageously expensive, but if this is the original,
they can do that. They can give you a different color. to tell me that left any of the I don't know I I I took it off the corner of the lowest piece of wood and it was kind of away from the
wood so I just took a piece and they didn't recite no I don't think so so some of that may be there for be cool to do the chronology I don't know if that costs more
I mean I was a firms that do it, but I could email I what do you have any experience with the the fees that they do this kind of work that no I can't imagine it's extraord
extraordinary I wonder that um because it's a technical I wonder if there's some technical resources available through the Mon County.
Um, and at least I'm trying to get your do you know I I know you're familiar with some of the staff. Do you know if they if they have someone or could refer someone who maybe does phone over time
and you know do this keeping the names of two permanent architectural two permanent I mean that might be worth putting in a memorandum see it's up to the commission
if you want I mean I won't just ask what we're talking about yeah I mean um don't know what the bureau is going to do with it. I mean, obviously, we're going to weigh in, but they, you know, to the extent that they're going to, I mean, they have to consider it, but
whether or not they abide by what our recommendations ultimately are or the processes that go into making those recommendations, who knows? Well, I've been irritating for the process that can be kind of um unwelcome for people who want to
Yeah. Right. to action. Um but just so uh we don't have any kind of miscommunication or misdirection because this will be a memorandum that'll just kind of one of those be those points of action memorandum similar to the transit. I want to make sure that we get it to the right people. So who how how
do we do that? I want to have the system worked out that we don't Yeah. we think is appropriate to the two of you the idea that basically try to move it you know towards an
agenda that we would like to include to others. So Sheil and I had a conversation. The disconnect that at least I feel like the disconnect that we identified is when I was leazison for the environmental commission commission the secretary communicated certainly to the um the
federal administrator and then um directly to the governing body. This in this instance we're going to communicate keeping with Chris's direction direct. It's going to go to Chris York. Um CC the mayor myself obviously you'll be on
there and um and I will immediately be able to now I know that it's not going to go directly to the governing body which was the step I had been anticipating. So, and then I will intercept it and um the president
circulated to the governing body and um bring it up at the next council meeting. Um that's any other issues with regard to the paint issue or any other um talking about memoranda.
Um any any traction or anything happened with regard to the transom issue? That did come as a surprise. I had some discussions with some people in town and they didn't really know much about our role or whe you know our position and quite frankly I'm not certain that we have a formal role with regard to that
but outside um a formal I would agree with you I think in the interest of community and that values historic preservation I'm comfortable saying that this body and the historic association when it
seems like it falls outside your typical jurisdiction um that it it seems right and good to at least get some advisory comment to often times it'll be the only thoughtful um you know set of recommendations because you talked about we spent two meetings
maybe even three at this point because of the lag but so it was presented last night at council meeting that was on record and again it'll be up to the mayor to decide whether to put it on the agenda in the meantime it's safe to duck away in her
here in this building. I'm never like that. It makes people feel complacent. Um I promise to make sure that we don't it's not there next year or I'll do my best. But u when it's in the building, it has to come down. You know, that's
time to find its new home. But unfortunately, that didn't happen. It's okay. So it's it'll stay safe. Have the design plans for the community center been file have they been finalized on the interior? Yeah. You know, um the I
think we were all thinking if there was some design profession was still milling about or hadn't closed out the contract, might they be available? Uh it sounds like that's viable. Um I actually think it's a whole separate scope of work really because the the transient needs
TLC which is an artisan I imagine that would be your guidance and then um someone needs to also design the actual display where it goes at what height how a ledger board how does how
is it held in place do LED on a timer like so it's So it's a it's a whole project especially if we add the language which I thought was an excellent suggestion for the commission you know to add a bit of narrative to
support the um the piece. Uh so I actually think at this point with that much yet to be done, it kind of is deserving of its own um project. We could um I don't I don't know where
to go next with this. However, it' be great to find a graduate student that might be qualified and find this to be interesting. Um but I'm having a suggestion suggestions. Good job.
Um I you know I guess it's kind of one of those things. Well, what what are our options? Yeah, that seems like a natural fit in the community center, but if that's not an option, you know, that's how the it's a natural it hasn't been. Okay. Uh personally, I mean, I can't but we've
made our we've made our intention clear in terms of that being the preference. So at some point when the time is right for it to come up uh or it gets on the radar then maybe that's the time that these spe more specific issues uh be considered.
But I am a little bit concerned about the fact that those might be pretty quick judgments that have to be made at some point to integrate it. And if and if it's not you say it needs TLC I don't know what the kind of what kind of condition it's in or maybe you don't want to clean it up. I don't know. Maybe
you don't want to restore it. That's the question. Should it be as it there's chipped paint and you know I mean so if it's just cosmetic maybe that keeping it original is should it be cleaned well that yeah so that's that's worth talking
about. Um well I'm not inclined to I don't think we need to send a supplemental me just talk to me about it but yeah I would think cleaning yes uh it's hard to gauge whether or not it needs restoration. I for one think that sort
of with the use that we were talking about having it in its current state might be the way to go. I don't know whether it needs to be restored to a beautiful state because you know the history of it is interesting and it's lived a life. Yeah. It's like
wrinkles and breakfast. But I I'm just concerned about the fact that it it needs to be like framed or something because it's they're all pieces put together. It doesn't sound like it's going to be that safe.
Well, I imagine whatever they do, however they display it, it's going to be integrated in such a way. I think the frame around the last 10. Okay. If that I mean if it weren't I would have it's
intact. Yeah. It is one of the some of this is glass. [Music] Okay. Is it like is it something that needs to be held together or is it uh is it structurally in sound? It is.
So it's encased in wood right now. It doesn't need to be like you could pick it up if you hide it. Yeah. I I just um well I I think I could talk u through the administrative channels maybe about having our building and
grounds for the first reassessment to see if there's a location that seems more most viable. you know, I'll talk to York and um see if maybe even someone from commission can
join him, you know, to convey the particulars of your position and see if But anyway, let me start there. That's not good. And uh in terms did they clean it up or do anything with it when they after they would take it out of building put it in a box and it's
no nobody did anything to Is that something that a a DPW person can do at least clean it up? I mean probably because it's intact. Yeah. Downstairs. Is the association planning on taking
any position with it? disorder or anything like that. Yeah. But yeah, there is to restoring it makes sense. You want to put it on the agenda? Okay.
All right. Anything else with directly trans at this point? Um, no. All right. What else do we have? Um, the cap stand.
That's uh I visited it and it's tied in with 21 Fair Haven Road. So, I went there to try to look and see. I scoured the thing to see if I could find any type of serial number, marking, manufacturer,
cast and die date, nothing of it. Um, and uh, yeah, I mean, um, it's there. It's kind of like I would think a background item at the 20 at the park. It's not exactly the safest thing.
There's prongs of metal on it that that move off it. So it's not like it's going to be integrated into a playground or anything. But I So the piece itself is not originally from the correct if they Well, we don't know. There's We don't
know for certain. I mean, it certainly is. I mean, I Anybody who wants to go and take a look at it, it's just to the right on that 20. Yes. I I peaked because I was told you weren't allowed to go in there and look at it and I was kind of looked dangerous.
woman. This is it. That's it. Yeah. Right. Right. Um I mean it's obviously like a an old metal casting that clearly is pretty old. Right. Um and I and you know the information that we got is it was it was at somebody's like what was it at the end of Baton Road in that
neighborhood, but they didn't know whether it had been brought there afterwards. It's I mean it's a robust piece of metal. So I mean it almost seems like a commercial device. It's not something I would think is in somebody's yard. Yeah. Nobody can move that, right? No, it's embedded in concrete. It was It
was in that concrete and it's probably like three feet, maybe two feet, two and a half feet of concrete. Oh, I didn't even notice that. So, from you know, oh, so let's we don't necessarily have to talk about the caps because that's a little bit, you know, kind of on the back burner a little bit
at this point, but 21 Fair Haven Road, what's happening as far as that's concerned? Uh last night the council authorized the um submission of grant application. Okay. Um along with the narrative to describe very broadly a
concept plan for our park. It would include um potentially terrace seating potentially other types of seating. Um
uh a there's a combination of bulk shallow short bulkhead living shoreline and beach. I mean it really we have many different components kind of in a concept plan. My question for the engineer is does it lock us in? It does
not. The idea is really to make sure that we have a complete application and then um we know we need to hire um a landscape architect. We need uh
circulation and parking analysis and we need um is there a thought to put on-site parking there or no? No, we need an assistant on circulation and parking simply to um I think one to answer
residents questions. Um, two to look at it holistically to see if personally my planning design background El Nelson there might be potential benefits creating an amenity down there. We have to find the positive. We know what the t where the tension is around the
potential negative impacts just too intense too much intensity for driving whether it's skateboards bikes and ebikes or cars. We want to be really careful not to create something that's going to draw um or compromise the the
livability, the quality of life for the neighborhood. Is there a thought about putting a playground in that was something? Yeah. Like actual with apparatus. Uh yeah. Yeah. That more of a passive park, but you said there's different levels and Yeah. Uh whether or
not to make it natural or not. Yes. So there's three professionals. The third one I uh that we need is um probably an environmental engineer. Somebody has some experience between you know the living shoreline bulkhead. These are you know one is a very expensive scenario one is a less
expensive scenario. Um one could set very apart become kind of a leader and experimenting with something that could potentially benefit the national communities more generally. You know shorelines has a lot of inherent benefits. People want to be able to get
the water. bulkhead puts you close to, but you really can't. Yeah. So, there's lots of high valuing still to do, but the council requires the professional guidance um and in order for we know we
know generally or I can say I feel comfortable like have a sense of where the community is, what the values are, um what would not be good and what would feel nice. But at the end of the day, there's a whole body of technical information we don't yet have because we
haven't been able to hire the professionals. Is they leaning towards you said a combination of maybe bulkhead and natural or is there a you know it's really premature for me to say. I think it's all in the concept plan because we don't know because obviously if you you know if you don't have a bulkhead there
it's going to turn into the similar type situation as you have at the end of Normandy becomes like a beach. Well, the Normandy the plan as the drawings I've reviewed in meetings I've had was to always living shoreline to stabilize that. So, you know, the surge wave action the land
the park goes into the river which is I think your point was and you can see from that tree on the eastern edge is completely different. So, anyway, um I forgot what you were just saying. No, I was just asking whether or not, you
know, how far along and whether or not there's been sort of an idea as to whether it should be natural or bulkhead in that place. It's still an open question because we do need that um we need that professional guidance like I would want to know the cost differences. I would want to know we have an
engineered edge to the east and we have an engineered edge uh to the west and um how do we reconcile them? We add a living shoreline in the middle. Are are we just are we planning for failure? What are the things we can do to uh ensure successful living shoreline even
though those condition you know there's lots of questions and uh with the those we need guidance to get them answered and any other um any time frame like what's the time frame? Uh yeah I can tell you the application will be submitted imminently because it was
authorized last night. the um um the awards are announced around November, maybe October, November, something like that. And um that would then trigger the um the c the the borrower's ability to
retain the professionals if we can do it before we absolutely would. But um assuming that's the start time, notice of award, which I hope we do get, then it would start in the fall. professionals start to get the analysis
and then move towards a design which at the moment doesn't exist. Any thoughts comments uh on 21 Fair Haven Road or the capstone uh any other I think we've covered all the issues. Anything else that we have?
And when you prepare your memorandum regarding Is your memorandum going to be limited to paint color? And are there any other items like we all use this front door? I
can carry that message if need to go in your mind, but are there any other things that you know for stream? Yeah, again I think the paint color is a big thing. Uh I think it's something that you know since it is the exterior of this building is something that you'd like to weigh in on again in terms of
micromanaging like the doors and Okay. you know, I I don't know that. I mean, I'm opening it to anybody else if they think if you think it's missing something right now. Um, clearly if there was some replacement of the doors or something, that would be a big issue
because it would affect the exterior, but just the door locks and something. Um, that to my knowledge there, you're talking about the exterior doors. Yeah. To my knowledge, nothing is going to be changed with the doors themselves. Okay.
Yeah. you know, and I'll I'll just develop the list in the way I'll do it and make sure you guys, you know, well, you see it on both sides. You see what's happening on the, you know, from the burough side and here. So, you I mean, we rely on your guidance in that respect. I don't think at the moment there's anything other other than the
pink. I think your leadership is spot on that's placed in. Anything else? Any other thoughts about that? any Oh, yes. Oh, I haven't received anything or
nothing. You know, um unrelated to that, but somewhat related. Do you remember the New Jersey uh the are you familiar with New Jersey Historic Trust Black Heritage Trail? New
Jersey has Black Heritage Trail, right? And um you can apply for um landmark designations. I call it that, but they don't they I forget what they call it, but you you're designated a landmark on the Black Heritage Trail and you get a
sign. It's a very beautiful sign with a short narrative that and we've we have an application for the historic chap and I we are almost done with this application. Um I have told the team at
New Jersey Historic Trust because I've been in touch with them to help move this application through. I've told them about the uh African-American school and they agree it's a worthy, you know, I don't know too much about it. I just know that it was hearing itself and know
enough to be able to convey it to them. So, um um we talked about getting another application together that again that that hasn't come to sold that would require resolution from the governing body. There's things to put in place for
that to happen. But I think one of the things that's helpful thinking about this chapel, but this chapel and school went together. I agree. So the the school was built first and the chapel was built second and then the black
community moved his area because of the church. That's my understanding saying it's a way to think about this situation. It's not it's not these separate buildings. It's a it's a community historic community.
because I noticed after I saw that um very I didn't much better it didn't quite sound great and I went back and researched I went to I ended up in the original I went down into the original
news clippings of 1884 1882 and this this is a good story some things that should be changed but really um very at all was passed to integrate the school who voted not to do it. I mean, it's
it's an extraordinary I'm saying including African-American citizens. They voted not to and what year was that? General Fris's support and and General Fris himself is a whole another story. It's interesting to
figure out the motivation. He hired a lot of people worked for him and he helped he gave them. He had a lot of power. It wasn't necessarily Yeah. Yeah. He had a lot of power. So in the town
wasn't necessarily a proponent of integration for 35. No. He he at the meeting said you should vote to stay in the public school. Yeah. And the the African-American it wasn't it wasn't
NACP but the elite pastor in the area said you should be with the white kids. You know, I mean, you got to imagine that that they built the school which was a good school for the time. It was modern school like almost like a separate equal
type mindset. But they probably thought the practicality of it that maybe you know get along, especially if the town is voting not to integrate that the mindset wasn't to do that. They had a big meeting in the whites and
the blacks in the town and the blacks as well. Oh yeah. But the criteria we need a black teacher. We need a teacher in our school. People going to pay attention to it. So it's the fair role because then all a sudden
this amazing legal victory. They brought the they brought the legal victory and the judge's order back to fair haven and the local school board said well that was nice but no. Yeah. So it's a long time coming the integration here in even though we help this is a community help
to make it possible for what was the year that actually they integrated the schools into I don't know exactly it yeah 1850s oh yeah much of the state was segregated
in seven states of course the Pennsylvania segregated I grew up on my parents to pass the black where they where they live and had been segregated. I told black
people it's it grabbed me again. I agree with the point about these two these two landmarks go together and that has part of my pitch to the Jersey Historic Trust um that it's good story and it makes sense that they're near each other on
this trail this small section of the trail here. So, you know, um I hope we I hope we apply for it. I'm only one council person. Obviously, there's six. So, see, is there a map of the trails? Yeah, there is. I'd love to see that.
Yeah. Anything else in Mama? There's some things in Red Bank. Red Bank just got two designated I think last year at the end of last year. You know, that um one might be the seat. Oh, yeah. I think
a lot about it because there was a tour of 11 African-American schools a couple months ago in Mon County. Yeah. I I visited a couple of schools down here in Asbury Park. The other one that's really interesting at Fair Haven and I find it interesting is um you guys
know what the Greenville is? Yeah. Yeah. And and of course you know that we had traveling performers come through Fair Haven. Yeah. And um that we have one home in Fairville that wasn't in the green book. Oh wow. Yeah.
So black reformer they were would stay there. So you know you know you know the house I know. Oh yes I'll tell you. It's got to be public knowledge. It was published in the green book. Yes. It's so when you go through uh you know where
Welsh or you know where Krowers is. Yeah. And you know the two river pool company is that driveway that goes through the center between those two buildings. It's the house is on access with that. It's like the last house at the end of that road. Um the Mora there.
It was in the green. Pretty cool. Yeah. So there's only that one place that could be on the trail. We've been at this one application for over a year. Yeah,
you know insert input into that. I can't help with that. I do think I'd have to get back to that the answer to me. I've not been a big enough but to
me I don't have it or else wait what you saying I was just asking there's there's going to be some kind of commer for the school that could be it part of
it but now I think now so sort of has disappeared I don't know who's what I was saying was it I just wanted to talk to the person responsible. Well, that sounds simple enough, doesn't it? That sounds simple enough. I think it might
be nice to do it as part of the heritage, the black heritage. Um, we'll see. Yeah, I mean, that makes complete sense. Yeah, that flag is the reason it get
that story of the vote and what happened here decision that's almost enough to get it to get sure. All right. Any other comments from the commission or from the audience
in Zoom land? All right. I'll make a motion that we approve the um May 29th, 2024 minutes. I don't know that we need a second. I don't know. Anybody want second that
second? Yes. Yes. Mr. Jud Mr. Yes. [Music] And motion applause. Thanks, Tracy.
You know, I want to put um