one time. >> Okay. Good evening everybody. This is the regular meeting of the Historic Preservation Commission for the month of March 2026. Adequate notice of this meeting has been given pursuant to the provisions of the Oakland Public Meetings Act. At the time of the board
reorganization in January this year, the board adopted a regular meeting schedule for the year. Notices of this schedule were sent and published in the Asbury Park Press on January 30th, 2026 and the Tubber Times on February 12th, 2026. That notice was also posted on the
Holton board in Burough Hall and has remained continuously posted there as required by the statute. Copy of the notice has and have been available to the public and is on file the office of the burough clerk. A copy of the notice has also been sent to members of the public as have been required as have
requested such information in accordance with the statute. Adequate notice having been given uh the board secretary is corrected to include this statement in the minutes of this meeting. Um is there any uh anything that needs to be stated with regard to the new procedure for the
publication of legal notices? I'll make the announcement but I'm not going to read it every month. So, just for the public's information, on June 30th of 2025, Governor Phil Murphy signed a PL, public law 25, chapter 72 into law, which amends the legal notice requirement
under the open public meeting act. And then beginning on March 1st, 2026, our first meeting thereafter, the implementation of that, public entities must publish their legal notices on their website rather than on in newspapers. So, you'll be able to view
Fair Haven's legal notices using the following website link. Uh, www.f fairhaven.org uh slhome/news/legal-ices. Can we get a roll call? >> Mr. >> Here, Mr. >> Here, >> Mr.
Mr. Heler >> here. >> Mora here. M Casey. Mr. Go >> here. Morte >> here and Mr. Smith >> here. Okay. So, we have a couple of things that are on the agenda. We're going to we have some um testimony and
presentation that's going to be made by one of the commission members. So, I'm going to kind of move things around a little bit. I think you're just going to swiftly get us through the agenda. I think the first thing we're probably going to be the quickest is the um it's Patricia McKenna, Third and Linux, 775
River Road, lot 49, lot 3. It's a new sign application. So, if you can come on up. Sure. >> And then just saying, you know, I think we will probably do public. >> All right. Could you just introduce yourself?
>> Sure. Um, Patricia McKini. I own Third and Lennox and Third and Lennux Flowers. I'm currently at 740 River Road. I'm moving to 775 River Road. Um, do you need to know why or do you care?
>> Uh, well, we kind of care. We don't necessarily need to. >> Okay, I'll tell you. Happy to share. Uh, better building. Um, central town. Central to town. There's a dry basement as opposed to the one I have now. Um,
>> that's right up your alley. >> Indeed. indeed. And um a little office in the back for the cleaning company because I currently have an admin um and we work out of my house and I'm over it. So this was this was a great um
a great spot that Katie told me about. So we moved on it. >> It's set at 7500 road. It's a newly restored property or relatively newly restored property. It's been before this commission. We've approved it. They've done a great job there. Are you are you uh occupying both the full downstairs
and are is there residences upstairs or offices? >> No, there's a there's a um an interior designer upstairs LSK. So, we're taking the first floor and we're taking the cottage in the back. >> Yeah. And that was the matcha. >> That was the matcha.
>> Okay. I coffee bar. >> But I don't have to look at this property. I looked at your current property. So, I wasn't aware that it was on the other side and it's down. It's the coffee shop. Well, it was a matcha shop that was only open for about six months or something like that. What's it what's it next to? It's on the other side of the street based regularly.
>> Uh yeah. So, it's probably the um uh it's it was recently redone. It's had patronation before us. It's probably the first it's the first office building after >> there there's a pasta shop and it was >> and they went back was redone. They put it back >> and they restored the back.
>> So, that's the building I'm going to be in. Yeah. For these signs. >> Yeah. Well, so I take it that uh the sign space that you're going to utilize is going to be the current configuration that I think we previously approved for the matcha shop. >> Correct. >> Um and just tell us a little bit about the sign configuration. You've already
provided provided exemplar. Uh is this the same sort of shape? Uh I see a logo and then I see two signs. Tell us a little bit about what you plan to do as far as the signage is concerned. Um, so there's currently a sign for LSK hanging on the pillar and then on the other side
it would be the third and Lennux flowers which is a little bit smaller than what the loom bar was there just because of scale and then underneath it would be would have too little change and then a small rectangle with third and Lennux >> cleaning
>> and a third and Lennux flowers is a black sort of uh indication >> correct >> you know and that is a um two-sided laminated graphics PVC. Um is it going to be flat or textured at all?
>> Flat. >> Okay. How about uh with regard to the third and Lennux sign two-sided laminated graphic? Same thing. Flat >> flat. >> Um no other modifications to anything else signage. >> Nope. >> Yeah, these um these are signs pretty
similar to signs that we consistently approved. I think has the same um contract to the fabricator. Um obviously it's you know pleasant enough looking but not that that's the indication but uh >> yeah I use the same company just to for
simpl simplicity sake. >> Yeah. Um any thoughts or comments from the commission? >> Like you said it's fairly consistent with what the other applicants believed in the past. the fact that it's solid
one. >> Any comments or thoughts from the audience? Any comments or thoughts from uh anybody zooming in? Okay. So, I would make the motion that we approve the uh the signage as
depicted in the submission of the applicants. Uh there's not the date on here, but uh they've been attached to the application which is dated 21926. Um >> yeah, we were hoping to come to the 224 meeting, but because of the storm, there
was none. >> So there will take a get a second. >> Mr. P. >> Yes. Mr. >> Yes. >> Mr. Heler. >> Yes. >> Yes.
Mr. >> Yes. >> Mrs. Borte. >> Yes. Mr. Smith. >> Yes. >> Okay. Congratulations. >> Thank you. Come into the shop and I'll give you a discount. >> I don't know. So afraid to accept.
>> I'll be there for this. >> It's our little secret. >> All right. >> Okay. Yeah, I think um well, you're carryover, so I think this makes sense. >> I as I'm adding to myself because I'll
be presenting the the next application. >> Yes. And that is going to be uh 50G Fair Haven Road LLC. It's 50 Gillespie Avenue, block 51, lots 35.01 and 35.02.
Uh the work proposed is um I don't see an application for the demolition. At least it's not on the agenda, but I assume you seek permission to demolish the existing structure. >> Well, uh the intention is to do a full
construction new home that we need zoning board approval for. And as part of that, the existing home will be demolished. Yeah. Obviously, we have >> parcel. There's an existing house that will be demolished in order to make way through this new post construction. >> Correct.
Just uh put your name on the record. >> Of course. John Sardo can welcome Jeran Holler and Cisla on behalf of the applicant 50G Fair Haven LLC. >> Okay. Period. >> Um I think you know just briefly this block
50 lot 35.01 and a repairarian lot 35.02. Uh it's at 50 GB Avenue in the R10 zone obviously in the historic district. Um rather than uh expend any more of my breath, I would
allow our our architects to kind of explain uh the existing residence, the proposed residence, and kind of the detail, the nuances that I think the commission would be interested in hearing about. >> Yeah. And I do note that photographs have been presented with the application
that the house is sort of off of Gillespie Avenue. Although it has Gillespie Avenue residents, a winding driveway partially oluded by a wall. However, it is visible from Leby Avenue as jurisdiction oversee. Yeah, you know,
it's it's I it's probably a hundred feet set back and initially I thought that I could make the case that there was not jurisdiction because truly I mean I live on the same street and I without going to a garage sale don't really know what the house looks like but I I noted uh
when I looked at old records I saw that the the HPC had uh had come before them in the '9s um when that house was constructed. So I said well I guess we're going to go and they won't make that argument. So, here we are. >> I don't know if there's any record of
it, but apparently when this house was constructed, I want to say it was probably 1993ish. >> Uh, it was a huge uproar because I think there were just some original cottages that were there and a lot of the land was developed and uh I think the the size, scale, the design of the existing
house was uh not many people uh that lived in the neighborhood I think really uh wanted it. So, I think that there were some public meetings at the zoning hearing and things of that nature speaking out about it, but obviously it did get approved and uh it's a 30 or 40
year life now. So, okay. And um just just before you start, um the property is very heavily landscaped and you really can't see much of the house other than like corner portion of it. Can you just tell us the intent of the landscaping? Will you still have
significant amount of screening landscaping? Well, it has. >> Yes. And I've actually brought with me the landscape plan. >> Okay. Is that good to know? We can't see it. It' be good to know. >> I can share that. But I mean, it's sort of uh by the way, for the record, um my
my legal name and professional name is James Anderson. I I usually roll the J. Uh but my father had the same name, so I'm James at least for this evening. So um uh but to your your point is that um
uh yeah it's not that visible now but it is in certain angles it's hard to anticipate what it's going to be with the new landscaping. So again we you know wanted to um you know be more conservative and just assume that you might and and not have any you know uh
jurisdictional issues later on. So, um, that being said, um, I've I brought some, uh, exhibits tonight. Is this a decent place for it or would you like me to move them? >> I don't know if you guys can see them. All right. I I know there's some columns
and stuff in the way. >> Okay. And if anybody Susan, if you want to see them, I want to put them over here rather than up there. So, um, an indication. >> Yeah. 50 Gillespie. Uh, we we looked at a couple of properties, uh, with the
Parnesses, um, in the historic district. They love it, the district, and have some friends there. Uh, and we came uh across uh, 50 and it's just an amazing site. It has u, you know, it's a very park-like setting. It's it's way larger
than what's required in the zone. uh it's waterfront, you know, it's a a nice, you know, walk into town and just so many, you know, great things about it. So, I think that that would became attractive very quickly. Um that being said um we you know walked through the
house and we were able to get um the copies of the the existing plans which were done back in '93 um and looked at it some more and more and realized it was going to be a tremendous amount of work and cost to to renovate this place.
Um it was uh an un unusual house at the time without throwing, you know, too many disparaging things. It um uh and uh it's has like this grand staircase right on the water that blocks a lot of the view, very few uh windows on on the
water. Uh and which equally is strange, and we're trying to figure out why that might have been the case. It doesn't sit parallel uh to the water. It's it's often a skewed angle that looks over at the boat club rather than into the main body of the water. Um, and we weren't
sure if that was somehow intentional or it could have possibly been uh that they designed this in in a um uh you know uh without looking at the zoning and maybe that's the only way they can fit it on. Um but as you these are two aerials. Um
there one from the street side of the front and this is one from the the river and you you can see most of the houses are um you know facing directly to the water. This one's really turned off to the side looks over here and that's yet another reason why this would have been
just a very difficult uh renovation. And it at some point we realized it it was probably going to cost as much or more than a new structure. and that we felt that we could do one that that was much more fitting than that. It wasn't. We just came out said, "Oh, let's tear it down." I think the first assumption was
that it was going to be renovated, but we looked into it, brought some builders in and it just and I have the existing plans. If somebody wants, I could pass them around. Uh, but it I'm not sure that that they're all that important. I don't know if you've been in the house.
Uh but it's um uh it it it's really um not part of the district or even you know uh what I'm familiar with and uh as of yesterday I've been u registered for 34 years here uh and had an office for
the same amount of time uh here and um anyway so the the decision was made to uh take down that house and in its place the uh this is um some
uh pad model screenshots uh from really the same thing that you have but it has landscape added to it. Um the intent was to to um design a colonial revival home. So it would have been ones that would would been uh part
of this settlement in this area maybe from 1890s to maybe 1930. So it was a a colonial federal revival uh in terms of its massing and and moldings and
materials. Uh so um there's that's all um painted solid PVC and including specially mil moldings. So not the offtheshelf AAC. There's some ones that we've taken historic profiles and remade
them. I'm in S made yet, but uh they're they're designed into the house. So that that little bit really picks up on um what uh might have been built back in that period. Um it is a house with a cedar shingle roof is
proposed uh cedar uh siding uh that is coated in a um uh either paint or more likely uh a solid body stain. Um there are wood windows with grills on the inside and outside and the spacer bars.
All the stuff that we I I know isn't part of the uh purview of of the board. Um, it has uh real uh timberline solid PVC shutters um painted uh with the shutter dogs, pental hinges, uh all
those kind of things as opposed to something that's kind of squeeed into it. Um the bricks are um uh molded Kushwa bricks. I don't know if how many people if Joe was here, he would be familiar with them. uh Glengary has
purchased them, but it they make a a nice historic molded brick as opposed to extruded brick. So, it it it has that historic kind of feel and um texture to them. Um and um uh just a a brief
overview of of uh uh the front of the house um is that there's a a front porch uh entered you here with a a ballast rod around the front and then otherwise uh porches on either side and and I should point out that the it's a combination of
cedar shingle peers and then the the mil peers with it which is a characteristic that we found on a number of of of homes. homes of that period. Um, and so and then there's a certain amount of symmetry and and the four chimneys which
really talk back to homes that were here, you know, uh, more of a colonial period, but you know, colonial revival, that was one of the things that we incorporated in it. Um, and then there's the garage. Uh, but we've done it with
carriage type doors to it uh, and a and a a coupa. And then there's the the mud room entrance uh which is also the summer entrance. It's we've designed it so these doors can stay open during the summer and that becomes the gateway to
the backyard in the pool without having to you know kind of go around and find your way through um air compress, you know, all the other stuff that's associated with going around. So there was a very deliberate um entry sequence to the house.
>> Is that dragway to number 48? They share a driveway. >> They do. >> And it splits off to the right. >> And that will come up in the cycling, which is interesting. This next view is of the back of the house, which as you can see, it's fairly similar to the front. I mean, obviously, there's some
difference in the bill. And what that is about is um a number of the waterfront homes of that late 1800s were double fronted homes. Uh, and then there's one on Gillespie itself, uh, the
current residence all the way on in uh, that had his front door on the water. So, this was really meant to pick up on that where, uh, a lot of the people came from boats at that time as opposed to, um, by car or carriage or or whatnot.
So, the the intent here was to make this u appear that it was that double fronted type of home. again a lot of the same materials that I had mentioned on the front. Um and um uh you know
yeah it uh thank you. And this is just a quick kind of view uh a little closer to the house, but you can start to see as the foliage gets up. It's it's not this, you know, a big view. It's I should note too this house
is smaller in square footage and lower in height than what's there right now. that James sorry Mr. Anders of the uh the image that I found on the right hand side is that sort of what you anticipate the view from Gillespie will look like in terms >> Oh no, not even this is midway in the
site. >> So it's going to be uh substantially more obscured than this but >> but in terms of the portions of the house or really the you know where the house sits on the property is kind of captured there you know albeit at a at a telescope back position that's kind of
where the where it's going to be positioned be the driveway of the accurate place. >> Correct. and then we'll come into focus with the site plan I think too. Um so um anyhow this starts to give the context a little bit of of the house that it's it's going to be heavily planted as well
and there's a that I'm trying to think of which is the easiest one to show you. I think maybe I'll flip it upside down. Um and just or this is a site plan prepared by Alan Tus
who's the landscape architect working on this. He's a a local landscape architect. Um this is Gillespie here. Um this is the driveway uh coming up and this is as um we were talking this is the one that
branches off to the adjacent uh property which is over here. Um, but it's lined by trees going down. Uh, fairly decent sized trees. Uh, and some ones out here. And then, you know, some and ones in
front of the garage and some lower plantings in the front. Um, and then the uh plantings, some trees and some u I'm not sure I'm you know our variety along the street. So yeah, there'll be a
little bit of view, but it's not it's not um going to be just denuted in the front. It's And then um this is that uh summer entrance that I was talking about before. Um and this sits up on a bluff. There's a fairly steep transition down
to the water here. Uh and it does have an existing dock that's going to be maintained. Um and we, you know, we didn't talk about it and I honestly, you know, we haven't really focused on it. There's an existing uh garage on the property as well. Um and um yeah, that's
it. There's kind of a fort and um you know, a a driving uh court over there for parking. >> Yeah. I'm curious about what stands out on the pictures. And interestingly, is this big buried geometric circle where
the rest of the everything else is has texture and depth. What is that just going to be a paved uh what is that? That's the parking area if they entertain. Big circle in the front. >> You know what it um we didn't prepare this island, but I'm reading here. It's tar and chips. So that would be Have you
seen that? Uh do you know what it is? It's a tar and chips. There's a a couple ways of putting aggregate down. So it's like a stone. It's a stone like small stone. Yeah. But it's a way of stabilizing them so they don't end up you like when it winter like this on
your lawn. uh and or you know there's a couple ways of doing it. Personally, I like exposed aggregate concrete. Of course, I'm from the West Coast and it's kind of a bigger deal over there, but that is that's it's very it's done a little bit here. It's done a lot up in Connecticut. Um so that's that's this
would be you know kind of a a couple >> function of it is for pardon. >> Yeah. But be able to come down and and access over here because otherwise um that would be the logical way in for guests to come come around
>> is the the entrance there's a wall there now two sides I think it's brick >> on the street the entrance when you leave from the street you keep that >> if you recall
Oh, yeah. >> Okay. I I guess you're going to maintain it. I uh was just talking to uh Dave, Melissa, and I hadn't had that discussion with him, but apparently they're in that. I was just asking
because that that also was obscured over that boy and we see the top. So the event I think that at least was the third image of the factory photo that was um it's a paper driveway with
um you see two portions of a brick wall with um lighting and pillars on either and that's going to be maintained >> apparently. Yes. I could be wrong part, but maybe the reason it was angled is because the house sits off to the left, so it's
actually not really visible from the street. I think with a new design, it's flush at the end of the driveway. Right. >> The the driveway meanders. The driveway meanders anyway. I think that's going to >> So, I think when you're looking straight down the driveway, you might not be able to see it, but as you're going on an
angle, you can see Oh, that's true. >> Yeah. I like I mentioned walking down to a garage sale. It's like not until you're 50 paces in when you're like >> you're like Yeah, I think there's an annual one, right? >> Um is when it like opens up and you see
everything. But it is kind of shocking how between the um you know the masonry in the front and the plantings that sit right behind it that are all pretty mature, you really don't see much. >> You know what? I breezed right over this portion too and that is the existing
house. Um and uh again it's it many of the things that would have been an issue with the historic commission now on this house. Uh, I mean the massing for sure uh with you know that that that
oversized uh entry here that the turret type thing u you know and whatnot but um also the materials with the vinyl cladding and it's uh you know it has the pork chops. I know you don't like it.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's one of those things. It's just a a very a very easy way to put it aside at all. So, um >> and I don't believe that that house was ever subjected to a historic preservation commission because I don't know that one ever existed. That was a time that one didn't exist. Let me ask
you this question, James, and I know that that uh how would you describe because obviously that house takes a bunch of cues. It has a turret. It's got 30 roof line. From an architectural standpoint, if you could kind of categorize it, what would you categorize the existing structure as?
Uh in terms of historic presidents there isn't one but aside I mean there was um I've seen certain similar ones like out in Marboro Homedale around that area that was you know done in the late 80s
90s and they had the grand staircases going up and I guess it was somewhat in vogue at the time you know but it um they haven't really weathered well in terms of the appeal of that style and so
forth. So um >> so it's not really you can't peg that design into any type of a traditional historic design architectural design. It takes a lot of features from a lot of different sources but it's really sort of I won't call it a matching but it's you know
>> that works. Yeah, but it's a yeah, just a lot of the things that we I mean I'd say we thought that the commission has uh taken issue with um you know, you know,
down the road, the massing, I mean, it does have have the brick on it, so I I'll give it that. But other than that, the the vinyl, the details, the, you know, uh, you know, it's really was not a contributing structure. >> And it really doesn't borrow anything
from, uh, really any of the traditional Grand Ski scale houses along the river or in Rumson or locally in Fair Haven like this, what your structure does, that doesn't really point to sit. It's more kind of reminiscent of a larger home on a larger piece of property in
Homeell, Marlboro, things of that nature as opposed to really borrowing any architectural cues from anything that would be natur you know original to >> Yeah, exactly. It and what again it wasn't our intent to just like take it
down. It was like when you really got into it and I could share the plans with you. Um it it just had it um kind of a bizarre layout, tons of circulation, very barely any view, and
it was really not in sync with how people live now. And it's going to, you know, hopefully this this other home is going to look meaningful now, but it's going to look, you know, equally in place 20, 50 years from now. So it's not it's not so of the moment. It it's just
really tricks that um uh have been used here over a period of time. >> Are there any particular houses um either existing now or ones that may have you know there were a lot of grand homes along the river many different parts of Russo that have either been torn down or burned down over the years.
Were there any particular houses that you used was that sort of as a cue in your design when you came up with the design whether it's postruction? It's a good question. No one in particular, but a number of them in parts, you know, uh both in the massing
and material. So, >> and obviously in the overall design, that was a design that was popular as you imagine between late 1800 from 1930s in the city. >> Yeah. and particularly on the on the bigger lots, you know, that's when um you know, people could afford those. I
did it and it was it seemed to be um you know, popular and and um probably for some similar reasons. It was one of those things that fit fit with the history of the area and um that kind of uh I don't timelessness sounds really
pompous, but something that that could weather and and not look, you know, of the moment. I mean the modern farm houses now just to throw something out. I mean they're all around and and uh it's you know there'll be a thing where
you could look back and go it was between this time and this time you know I don't hopefully this is is not uh pigeon hole uh in that in that same way >> the garage you mentioned it's existing it is off to the side um I don't believe it's visible from the street I don't
know what modifications have any I've seen a detail of it but again I do not believe that the garage is visible from the west or any other public >> No It's obscured. There's a another residence in front of it. The um and can you like just I think you can
point that out. Uh yeah, they'll go right ahead of it. Right. >> There's a house in front of it between there and the street, but honestly there we've we haven't really talked about it, but I there hasn't been any uh discussion about modifying it
at this point. I mean that I would imagine it probably get painted to match uh the house and maybe roofing to match it, but I don't think there's any intent to, you know, re you change it in some way. >> I have a question. Is there a another
structure in that additional parking area or is it just straight >> over here? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. This is that garage that we were just talking about. >> Okay. And that's going to >> maintain it. Okay. >> And is Mr. Sargo was saying this this is
largely obscured by the house in front of it between there and Gillespie. But that being said, um it for whatever reason, it hasn't been something that we've really focused on. And I would think that the anything no
>> and and then there's a the share driveway for this other it's an unusual it's a very park-like setting. It's like a really amazing a lot. And to have it be that close to town and in the historic district, it's um uh I think
they they really um did their homework to to to to find that because obviously um the particularly the specular builders here are like sharks. I mean they that anything that has a potential of selling, they seem to fly off the
market. So they were able to um you know, I think discuss uh some arrangements with the existing owner and and you know and we're able to to purchase it >> was the ma the area between the garage obviously this will be on the south side
and the mass the main portion of the structure that sort of lower portion >> yes >> that's sort of uh they looking as though it may have been originally a detached garage that was at some point after original construction connected >> yeah yeah I know we done some work down
the Del Marva Peninsula where they was big house, little house, colonade and kitchen where they they specifically had that that that breezeway going through there. So, um uh you know, well, they didn't fully connect it so they didn't burn down the house and then over the
time they just went, you know, forget it. You know, it's we don't retire to getting wet. Um, yeah. So, it has some of those kind of characteristics of it just being a covered wood, but I I think I mentioned too, um, we were going to take that a step further and make that
the gateway during the summer where where the where the it's the doors are able to open and you could and and we thermally sealed off the two sides so that, you know, they could leave it open. and the materials that are going to be in that space are ones that are
going to be able to take the humidity and all the other you know kind of things that would come up. So um yeah we we like I mean whenever you get that chance to have realize during the summer a lot of the time you know rather than have going up to the front door knocking on the door and all that you know
there's kind of a much more you know deliberate way to to go back there and have people become you know uh you know engaged in your I'd like to sort of I know we've had past applicants
similar situation and we really didn't have jurisdiction over the design of houses really wasn't visible on the street and um we even briefly talked about historic significance of the riverview but that's as you know that's
not part of this chart this >> and I wish it was because I really feel that uh that's that you know a lot a lot of people do see it >> right and that's the point I want to make that I just appreciate the attention to detail for things that may
not be facing the street because we've had previous comment on that so >> well Jay indicated couple of houses I mean the front of the house is considered riverside um and so again we don't have a picture over that however
>> obviously there's liberation here to making the front as consistent as the the rear as consistent as the front in terms of its symmetry and uh you know trying to accomplish that that kind of design. And it's interesting that you say that
because uh as as you were alluding to >> zoning wise, you sometimes you can pick your the front yard and I think we went through that exercise and are still keeping the front yard on Gillespie, but they're it potentially could have been called on the on the other street. Of
course, it has no bearing on the historic commission because they they're as sort mentioned though shows put into the pot because both sides either side you turn the house around and be equal
and compelling and you know fulfill your what your design intent is. So it doesn't matter which side is really yeah we we try not to do queen and a Maryanne but I think it was one time everybody there
was a woman wearing all of their jewelry on time out. So all the details have gone to nothing as well. >> Um any thoughts or comments or criticisms from the commission? Any thoughts or comments uh from the
audience? Any thoughts or comments from the people zooming in? Mr. S, do you have any closing comments or any other comments? I mean, Jay obviously is for him and gave a thorough presentation. There's anything else you
want to touch upon? >> No, I I mean, in some ways, I think he was too thorough, but uh it was good to I mean, I think you uh can see how invested he is in the design, and I I honestly don't know I've seen renderings this good ever. Um, the one question I
have to ask you actually is, do you need us to leave copies of these or need to email PDFs to the secretary so that you have them? >> Yeah. Uh, because they're going to all be part of the application. They're made part of record and obviously you're sort of held to what's been there's that we
put sort of a statement in a memorandum of action indicating that you obviously if you're representing that that is what you're going to instruct you're stuck with that implementation and you know certain implications and ramifications that in fact deviate from that if it's material and don't come back to the
commission. I don't suspect that that's going to happen in this application. Um but uh but yeah so I think this PDF is >> I think that's >> I get that to you tomorrow. >> So I'll I'll kick off some discussion. I
think it's a fabulous house. I mean really just an amazing design. U really really uh and and you know Jay's been doing this longer than I have on the commission. So you know all of the questions that we would have asked you preemptively preemptively told us in
terms of materials in terms of design in terms of what historical cues you're looking at in terms of coming up with this design. So there's really no questions that I think we that everybody's silent as you answered all those questions. But uh you know compared to what was there what was
there currently and that's not a knock on that house as you mentioned but it's uh that was a period house from the 1990s that was objected to perhaps rightfully then. Um and you know sort of has a limited lifespan and what you're doing and what you're proposing to do is
just such a so much of an improvement over what's there. It's, you know, beyond words. But I think that the house with the symmetry, the materials, the uh being brought in with the with the chimneys is just, you know, it's a wonderful beautiful house and it's going to be
perfect addition to the so >> well that means part of this >> and um you have a very large property with there's going to be a lot of landscaping going on and if the landscape this is not our this is not our role at all but um could consider
native plants, native river plants. There are places very interested in having more native kings and not having aggressive spreaders that are not native and makes it it makes for a very beautiful property. >> I can mention that to Allan. He is a
local landscape and he he was the landscape um and still is for Siciliano. I don't know if you've seen them around, but they're a local landscape uh company and um although now he also works on his own. Uh but um I I'll bring that up to
him about u you know trying to incorporate as many uh native uh plants which is great. It makes it fit in that much more too and you know they're going to be sustainable as opposed to a bunch of beautiful things and they're gone. I
mean, climate is one thing, deer is another, a huge factor. Um, I mean, you got to be mindful of that. So, >> what was the name of the brick that you mentioned? I know you said it was a molded brick that you gave us. >> Yeah.
>> The um now they they were purchased by Glengary, which is a fairly big uh brick company, but they were another uh specialty company called Kushwell. How do you spell? >> C U S H W A I think,
you know, I I think I'm not sure, but I'll I'll look for that. >> That's just a brick. >> Pardon me. >> It's a not a historic brick, but it's a molded brick meant to look like an accident. Is that meant to look reclaimed or I'm not >> Well, not necessarily reclaimed, but it
looked like it was a hand molded brick. Although I don't believe, you know, I don't know if this one was or not because Glengary does have some hand molded, but my guess is probably machine molded, but still it's um uh its look is looks like it was a hand molded
one. We we do at times still use um uh uh some hand molded bricks, but you know, I think in this case, we thought this one was appropriate. >> Okay. So, um I will make a motion that we approve the application
um consistent with the uh elements testified to and the elements contained in the plan specifications and elevations and photographs that have been presented. um you you've made representations as to the different
types of materials which I don't need to go into for the purposes of the motion, but I will probably indicate in my memorandum of action. Um but again, you've covered everything that's on the record. So um I make the motion that we approve the application in total um
based on plan specifications, elevations, and representations made u by the second Mr. >> Yes. Mr. >> Yes.
>> Yes. Mr. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Thanks very much. And there's time comments that greatly appreciated by somebody who knows you know it was
all. >> Thank you. >> Congratulations. Congratulations. Yes. Congratulations. >> Thank you. when you anticipate moving that >> we still have to go to the zoning board. Um
>> 28. >> Well, it's interesting. >> We'll be concise. So, I'll we'll give uh Jay the abbreviated version of the testimony, the high point, the high points.
>> Hopefully, that will be soon. >> Yeah. What's interesting though in terms of the zoning uh it's mostly because the zoning requirements are made for a much smaller lot. I mean this is multiple times the size of it. So >> and you're reducing the mass of the
house anyway in some respects. Right. >> So I was doing a little reverse variance. Inverse variance. >> Yeah. >> You could use that. We're going to make you low at that. >> Back Jay. >> Yes. Okay. So, the third application is
Dennis and an Isabella. It's 94 Fair Haven Road, block 27, L 60. Uh the work proposed is a rear first addition and a new fence. So I just wanted to give you some
updated images outside of the run for me. >> Steve Those are the updated architectural renderings.
>> Just introduce yourself. >> Sure. >> I'm Angela Zabella. >> Dennis Zilla. >> We live at 94 >> 94 Fair Haven Road. >> You've lived there for how many years? Since >> 32 >> 1993. >> Yeah. I mean, while you may remember the
stuff that went on when they got >> Oh, well, we were in the original historic association along with Art and Wel and several other people. >> Yeah. The commission didn't exist when we did our fence 20 plus years ago. Um, we replaced it. Um, maybe we could talk
about the fence first. If you go to the original um papers, we have images like photographs and you can see that our house borders Memorial Park. There's a cedar fence and line and we feel it's
time to place it. >> It's been 22 years. >> Yeah. And it's >> the place before we have the all these celebrations going on that are >> what are you going to be patient with >> a similar sixoot cedar
>> light per light towards the back >> the back of the property has a chainlink fence and that was >> so you have you have the fence goes around the front then a cedar fence dark side >> we have a cricket fence in the front >> that would stay right
>> and the the exact place where the cedar fence is now would be replaced with a new cedar fence. >> So, it's going to be a lifeline discussion off the record. I think you mentioned that uh we don't know the exact style that there's something virtually identical for a seed
standpoint pretty standard >> a six foot privacy fence and we were going to be meeting with Carl's fencing. We could submit the proposal once for some reason they don't have every picture on their website of everything they have. Um, >> but the intent at this club is to have
it out of cedar as well. >> Yes. The original one we talked to the was I guess it was the garden club and >> I I talked to a lease because we're on the memorial park committee and I said I don't know who to talk to about the
fence. Do I just go get a permit or is the historic commission have a you know any interest in this? And and she said probably it would be we should ask you. Yeah, it is kind of an question. I always say think that uh the burrow and
maybe the parks uh department may have some interest in the type of design of fence. I don't say that because it's you know so conspicuous of like sort of backgrounds from River Road that you know >> the park um you know I don't know that that's that's not something that we
really have any jurisdiction over but I don't know whether anybody can attend >> no because every maybe Sheila you have some good ideas on that but I >> no I I did mention u that tonight's meeting included your application um to the burough engineer you know we
talked about the location of the home that is parking thing to add about having say in >> Yeah, I mean we certainly want to put a fence up that that the town >> right likes >> and we're amanable to any
recommendations whoever is >> you know we just want it to be newer looking than the one that's there >> right now it's >> pretty >> I can't even replace the existing post because that design the way the conicle
or I can't get that anymore. So, it's time for a completely new fence. >> Uh, when it was originally uh erected back in 93, was it treated? Was there any type of stain put on? >> Um, I think it might have gotten pressure treated wood, did we? It >> Well, the original
>> Well, there was an original fence when we moved in, which we >> 2003. >> And the cedar fencing that we put up, I think might have been pressuret treated. >> But this fence, the one >> the one that's there. Yeah. So that is
that I thought you said was in um when what when did >> 2003 >> 2003 >> that fence has been >> that was not uh treated with any type of stain or anything. >> No, it's just weathered. >> And then what you're looking at now is going to be the same thing. Not treated
with any stain. >> So when we put it up, it was, you know, the color of cedar, like a little bit of an orange hue. >> It just had over the years. >> Yeah. over the years it got kind of covered with algae and all the things
>> and there's any other thoughts on the appearance of the fence there maybe legal parks commission >> we do >> I mean they deal with fences and they go industrial >> I mean I'm on the memorial park committee with a lease and she said >> I don't know
>> and part of that fence is behind the 911 memorial >> park there is a little intersection Yes. >> Yeah. That's why um that's why we put it up because when the 911 memorial was built,
>> we put up the fence to so everything would be fresh and new. And now it's 25 years later. >> Um and we thought it would be appropriate to have the fence looking nice. >> At that time, did they did you get feedback on the tile? >> No, nobody we just
>> We just told them we're putting a new fence up and they said, "Thank goodness." So, It's a concave fence on your property. It faces out sort of traditional way of doing it and it just happens to border on public property that's a prominent park and you think that somebody from the burrow would have
some interest maybe you know there's many many designs so might be preferential to that and it may not so much be the fence but the part should pay the park group should pay attention to because it's probably landscaping and it would make a big difference in the appearance from river road >> to see the fence versus landscaping.
There were a lot more trees in that whole area in the back and on the side and they were sort of >> a lot of the trees along there >> the type of trees you'd want to grow. So the town cut a lot of them >> right before this commission who basically you're looking for a like kind something
that's already there and you know has been there 25 years. >> Um so I don't know that you know we really have uh really any kind of say to modify that. It's going to be identical. >> I was suggesting that you might put a note in that they've offered if anybody
any committees in the town have an interest in you fence area. >> I mean, I think I would say budget stream, you know, >> as long as they don't say like build like a brick wall or something. >> If the town has an interest in it, they should probably assist in that or take
>> or Well, when we put the fence up originally or when we replaced it, it was sort of dangled out there. Yeah. that the town would help and then when we said we'll replace the fence they said yes thank you so we did um
>> Tracy is is Tracy now the uh >> facilities that the park doesn't >> any advice you have for us on the fence I'm I'm just taking it all in. I was going to actually bring it up to Chris York. >> Okay.
But not at his current. >> So, you bring up a great point that 50th, there's probably going to be all kinds of >> there's going to be all these celebrations. >> That's why we wanted to do it before the >> even before we got approval on doing our addition. Then we could at least get the the fence.
>> What's your time frame on replacing the fence? Like what do you think? What are your thoughts? I mean, there's a, you know, you have to lead out to it, obviously. >> Yeah, we need to go by for a zoning permit for our addition. >> Yeah. >> Um, we thought we'd put the fence in there if you guys said, "Yeah, we don't
have any problems with your fence." And also, if you feel okay with the view of the house, which we'll talk about next. >> Yeah. So, I mean, I'm just going to throw this out. I mean maybe it's something that Chila maybe you and I can maybe just some other sort of parties
that have an interest in this park to see if there is any interest. It may very well be very similar to what you experienced before that some people say that we may have an interest but nothing happens. >> We're we're meeting with the fencing uh who had originally done it 22 years ago. get an estimate from the fenc
>> and so we can actually say okay this is what we're proposing if unless you want something different if that'll help >> I mean do you have can you envision what different would entail like different material
>> not come with before as it was any other designs or alternatives but you are coming forth with an says we're going to replace what's been there for 25 years so we're sort of you know our hands are sort of tied as to what we're going to do. Um, presumably as far as the fence is concerned, but again, there's a way
to beautify it and I'm certain that there's nicer and prettier fences that are out there, but they probably carry with them, you know, price limit. And I'm, you know, certainly not suggesting that you should put that necessarily, but maybe if there's somebody within the burrow that u,
>> you know, it's something that could, you know, could be beautified because again, it's on your property. you're phasing it out like right the traditional style, but it probably it affects the park as much as it affects your property. So, I'd like to maybe reach out and just see if there's anybody that would be
interested in that and maybe that part of the application could be pended. But whatever we decide to do, we will, you know, I feel pretty confident that we will be favorable with this fence. Okay. And and again, Christina said she's going to sort of check in with because
people may just have an idea and things and it would have a completely different appearance. Very nice. There's very nice stuff in on the part of it could be >> they always do plantings every spring and they mulch them. The only downside to the wood is they mulch along the
fence >> and it rots the bottom of the fence. that you know >> and I should say because it's something that again is probably outside our traditional jurisdiction to in terms of the inquiry here but because it has an impact on the historic district which is
in the historic district I really hasten to not just investigate this a little bit and um because I don't want to have a situation where we're making a decision you know in a narrow fashion other parties that may have an interest don't even know that we're making this decision and then after the new fence is
erected they may have something to say about it. I'd like to have them burn ahead of time. So, >> I mean, maybe can we just separate the fence out from all our other >> I think that that would be that's sort of what I'm suggesting. >> And depending upon uh the urgency for I
guess the town for whether Memorial Memorial Day or the 25th I mean we're we'd like to get it as soon as possible. might be a lift because we don't know what >> it's not that far isn't >> your desires would be with respect to
>> you know ceremonies in the park >> it's people that have an interest in desires to get it up quicker >> but we should have an answer one way or the other we don't get any kind of answer by the next month's meeting >> we're not going to require you to come back for the fence unless there's some kind of a material thing that the county
wants to get involved in >> and then obviously they would be we would put you in touch with them and sure some type of an accommodation can be made if in fact you know the town moves mur moves slowly though so in terms of having an allocation but >> I and I think that this is the appropriate way for us to handle fence
and I agree with you separating it from the rest of the application without any kind of a long delay and not affecting anything else that you're looking to do here is the river >> the only thing I would caution is I think my opinion height is important your privacy is important this is a
different this river road >> we want it to remain It's just the Burough came back and said, "We love your little white picket fence and that's >> No, that's not really what we would prefer. >> So that's why >> we'll just leave our old fence up in
that case, but I think >> that wouldn't be in the interest of, you know, the town or us." >> So, >> you know what? Just looking at this um and having the two different fences, I I kind of like the two different ones because the the low pickup one on in the
front kind of brings the focus to the lower historic part of it. >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> And and and doesn't focus it so much in the back, but the the the massing out there, which it certainly was added on to, but it doesn't have as much of the historic character that the front does.
So it sort of allows that sort of shift of character to a more natural >> it's more of a backdrop the the fence that we're putting as opposed to the front which is more of >> it's probably going to impact what you're going to say shortly on the the
other proposed additions. It does help to to kind of screen that uh more. >> Yes. >> In the back than some other >> And I'd prefer if it was a brown or a darker color, not white, >> because you know, like you just said, it's it's supposed to be sort of a
backdrop. It's not >> It's not the main event. >> 200 foot span fence was painted white. That would be >> That would be just not. So he the dentist you remember Derry Barbara at that it >> at the corner of they live on
>> he was he was the founder of the clean ocean anyway >> um very old home as by 130 years now and they did exactly this so main privacy is tall dark >> and then it's it gradually went down to
the front part which was >> next to the historic part of the house so everything exactly >> right And we we don't intend to change anything about the front of the house. Anything from uh Fair Haven Road will remain the same. All the front of the house.
>> Painting the fence. >> We're going to paint it. >> So that the fence. Yeah. Our fence needs some painting in our >> you know. But the addition uh >> Yeah. Tell us a little bit about the history of the house though. Uh your built any additions, anything that you
know about >> Well, we don't know what was built. We know that was in the maybe around 1890s at least because well been in 93 it was a century plaque on the on the annals. >> Any idea or maybe you tell from the photos what portion you think that left
portion uh will be >> sort of the other I think the older part is the um the part >> original. Yeah, the original part because it has uh four over four windows
whereas in the the dining room in the other areas the picture >> this is all the north part where >> facing fair haven road >> that's near the park I think is newer. I don't know why I think that, but it's because the windows are have bigger panes of glass, >> whereas the front's all leed windows.
>> It can go either way. You know, it's But I know what you're saying. It's >> But the kitchen and all the important stuff is on that side of the house. So, I I don't know. >> Is it in the Gabriel book about your house? >> I don't know. >> There's there's a picture of it where where they have the oyster shells on the Fair Haven Road. And you can see
>> I think there was >> where there used to be where the park is. There was a store that burnt down. general story, I think. Then our house was Dr. Stewart's house. >> Stewart owned our house >> and he quarantined the whole town. He's famous for >> I guess some outbreak that he
>> uh and we still have the uh the brass placard with Dr. Stewart >> on one of the beams over our kitchen. So >> just for keeping it, you know, for posterity, it's like >> say stylewise with that sort of gable and just digressing for a second in
terms of the way it sort of rounds out. >> Yeah, it looks like something that was probably done in the last 19 or the 20s 1900s. >> Okay. I would guess and it's probably like you were saying it probably uh part
of it and then and you see it elsewhere in the district too where they had a relatively simple rectangular building and then when the late Victorian and other styles came in then they added added you know element on the side. So
>> yeah I mean >> and there's really nothing there. It's just a dirt under the foundation on on the what I think is the older side of the house. There's a peanut stone fireplace >> north side. >> Yeah, north side. There's It's basically beams on stones.
>> It's not original probably uh construction that's never been changed. >> So, let's talk about the addition. And first of all, the uh the exterior of the house is what type of material is it? >> What's under there by any chance? Is
there is it? Is it bake? >> Yeah, I don't know. I we never took any of it off because it's asbestous and we just decided leave it alone. >> I mean aesthetically I wouldn't have picked it but you know that's what was there when
>> and then the addition that's being proposed on the side with the material that's being used. >> Well and it's not on the side facing the park. It's an addition on the other side of it. If you turn to this page of the handout, I just baby that gives you the
views from um each side of the house and the left side elevation is the side facing the park >> that is all existing except for the >> porch. >> Porch. So that's all has asbestous siding currently.
>> You're not going to disrupt that. You're not going to >> No, we're going to extend the roof out another eight feet and build a a porch that is an open porch with columns that are square similar to the columns on the
side porch and uh look like a blue stone uh over the concrete. And >> then if you look at the left side uh I'm sorry the right side elevation and and the back you can see what we're going to
do is add a first floor addition that will allow us to stay in our home and to have first floor uh living space. So master bedroom uh a master bath and a laundry room which I've wanted since we moved in. >> So that side of the house is not coming
out at all. that side is not visible from uh the street at all. Um but we are planning on that side of the house to use uh Hardy board and I >> we have the column materials. I think we
do Azac or something that is would probably more impervious than you know wood >> of a wood wood simulated. >> Yeah, a composite I guess of some sort. We had done that in the front part where the the rounded sort of portflow type of
where we were getting carpenter bees that were drilled, you know, and so we've replaced it. But >> we have JJs too that >> just decided they take up residence on on the >> any of the windows going to be replaced. >> Um none of the existing windows be will
be replaced. No, that's not true. the back of the um porch where the we're building a back porch which is currently the back of the family room. We're going to redirect the exit out the back of the family room. So, >> but that's not visible from the street.
>> That is not visible from the street. Any idea the addition? Obviously, it's an addition on the back of the house. Any idea when that was constructed? >> Oh, yeah. 1973. I think >> it was 15 years earlier from before 93.
So, >> well, I there's in concrete their name. They wrote their names, the kids' names, and it says, I'm pretty sure it says 1973 or 74. >> And any anything changing with the roof? The roof that's going to be on the addition port uh the front enclosed or
open rather the upper portion and back porch. What type of roofing materials are they? >> It will be the same as what we have now, which is >> it's missing the two skylights we have here. um on the left side, the the bottom right >> that face park.
>> Those are going to remain there. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> And so it's it looks like an asphalt shingle. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Are the front windows being left as is on the entire front face of the house. >> Oh, we're not doing anything. >> Yes.
>> Just so I understand the addition. Is it I understand you mentioned the bush in the back and modifying the doors. >> Are the two uh all the kind of wings well on north side and one on the south side towards the park are they they're
existing in into a new >> there's going to be there's one wing that exists that is a family room >> just extending it out to the other side of the our house the existing house. >> Yeah. And then there will be a second wing that kind of mirrors the family room. And
>> so so how it's hard to tell with where they uh darken these walls as being new versus existing. How far are they new on the north side? This is where you're making it near the bedroom there that
the street. >> Yeah. >> Where is that the house end now? Is it end of the original part of the house? >> Yes. >> Okay. So, it's Yeah, the plane probably should have that all black, you know, going around there. It just shows it
more. >> Um, let me see if that's >> Yeah, just um >> have he has this here on this page. This is >> It does. This is Nick. >> Yeah. Yeah. What I was talking about,
you know, none of that is blocked in. Well, the topology map has some shading if that helps you. So, this one, we're building this and this. Uh, >> understood. Okay. So, yeah, you're right. The foundation's right. That's right. This it just probably should have
these walls in black, too. No big deal. It's just I wanted to clarify the extent of the proposal. >> Okay. >> Should we >> do you need >> Do you need us to modify that to send it to you? I just wanted to make sure I understood that.
>> Oh, okay. >> And it makes sense for the kid. It's just that the first floor plan was a little confusing to the it black more in the middle of it. It look like that uh that the bedroom thing uh was partially
existing. No, it's not >> the the existing one that's facing the the park that's built on a slab and it actually it's 10 in lower than where the rest of the house >> the rest of the house is. So, we're
raising the floor on that, but we're not raising the roof. We're just because it's high enough that, you know, we're able to have it all in the same plane. >> We want the floor to be level throughout the house. And that when this is finished the right side of the house where currently you have a lot of
landscaping and trees and all you can't barely see it road will coming from the other river road will that be more visible or is there just as much landscape on the left side tree >> well you know in the plan I submitted we were thinking about taking down some
trees but we had uh two tree guys come in and say now you can save all your trees so we're not going to take down any there's no plan to take down any trees require a permit at this point. So, um, and the landscaping,
uh, we might put some privacy landscaping along the chain link fence that's at the back of our property. >> Um, but we have a very large tulip tree there that sucks all the water out of the ground. So, most everything we plant doesn't seem to want to stick around.
So, um, but that's the plan. Um, any other questions? >> Any questions about the >> Yeah, no questions. I mean, some comments, but when you know I want to make sure I don't free up questions.
Anybody from the audience have any questions or comments? Jam. >> Yeah, but so the couple thoughts. point is I think creating the agent in place capacity to a an older structure is a really good idea because it um you know
it it it takes away the incentive to to take down something because it um it's not functional in that way and I think um uh that's it the utility of that is good and will help to make it you know sustainable. I think the other thing is
that the view of this is is really kind of largely sheltered uh from the existing part of you know definitely to the east of the main house but also uh on the um southerntherly side on the
park that's and the the extension there at the porch is is I think really kind of minimal and that whole addition is really quite low. Um, and so I think that, you know, the impact is is not going to be great either from Baraven
Road or from River Road and I think that the capacity to to, you know, enable them to to stay and to not have to navigate this this is something that's going to, you know, maintain an older structure here.
>> Yeah. and the fact that there maybe is not a historically inspired addition window that's there right now. You're not really materially answering that. Barely visible from the street especially on the north side which slightly visible but you know it's
distant from River Road which will be the only road you'd be able to see it from and also oluded by the fence that's a part of this application as well. So, um, again, uh, it's something that more if you were going up, you would probably have to pay more attention to because
more visible. Um, but here again, um, it's not a significant enhancement of, as Jay said, an addition that may not be historically sympathetic, but again, makes the house more livable and probably overall increases the chance that the house will be preserved going
forward. So, >> I was just curious um why you didn't add a window on the >> park side. >> Park side. >> We have a generator along that wall. >> Um so, if we put in a window, we couldn't open it. >> And we figured that's just
>> extra skylights >> extra. So, it might be something that would the historic commission would say, well, why these windows, you know, if we just left it exist thing. >> Also, street noise to be honest. the support.
>> No, but you might give say give us options that we're sort of like stunned as it is with everything. >> If you give us directives or commands >> come up.
>> Well, I not being overly uh uh articulated. Hopes it just I don't want to say fade away, but becomes more natural. I mean if anything >> wants some sort of ability to you know
put some trollus there or something like that to again solve I mean that's the only thought that I would have I mean I think not that it's offensive but it's certainly not historically contributing uh so I think the more that kind of is
is subtle and and kind of goes away and >> keeping the fence high there and letting the focus be back on the uh historic part of the We didn't want to create any distractions. That's one >> exists. >> Yes, >> that's a Disney. Yeah,
>> that family room exists. >> Sorry. That was >> No, no, it's it's on the other side of extending it. >> Yeah, there are no windows in it. >> I understand. >> Yeah, the wrong wall. >> It's just a long wall, but we have two skylights
>> on the generator. >> And there's a generator along that wall that we installed last year. >> Actually, even sink air conditioning unit that'll be coming back. >> Yeah. >> Um >> so our architect thought it would be
nice to have windows there but um we >> and I understand I thought you were starting from scratch there. >> Yeah. No, but we are opening up the back wall which is has two narrow windows. down. We're going to have a door and >> well, it's going to be almost all
>> glass, you know, or windows windows and uh doors at the facing the back of the family room. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. Yeah. So >> uh I would like to make notion that you need the application as as presented
with the exception of the fence uh and that would be taken out of this and considered separately with um I don't know what the vehicle would be to get that input u but that would be the
bifurcated the addition >> it could um someone like get back to us with what it should do. >> So I think probably practically speaking the way it probably work is you know we um we will submit a memorandum of action
which will show that the capable assuming it passes that the applicant should be approved. This is the way I envision it, but basically holding off on the fence application which would be subject to a supplemental memorandum of action which will become part of the original and it really will depend on
when we do this in court weekly and uh it will likely be addressed in full or resolved by our next meeting. that's resolved beforehand um you know will will then know then additional memorandum of action will be generated
by that time. >> Well pending approval then we were hoping just at least to get on a schedule of someone that could put the fence in before all the ceremonies in the park and that's the one >> we're at least before the 4th of July.
Yeah. So like the the delay I'm certain couple of weeks really those may be decisions that are outside of our hands. >> Um but again I just think it's worth the inquiry and we'll stay on top of it and we'll make sure that you get some word quickly. >> Yeah, we appreciate that. >> And quite frankly it's not like the
fence is going to become a problem for you at least as far as this commission is concerned because again it's replacement. I think that you're getting, you know, the sense and and maybe we even vote on it in the alternative and we I will do that off. I'll propose a separate motion that we approve the fence pending, you know,
pended uh this inquiry that we're going to have. So, let me do that. I'm going to um make a formal motion on the issue of the fence that we approve the replacement of the like kind sixoot cedar fence. uh that's proposed pending
inquiry from other bureau departments as to whether they have any interest in modifying changing or doing anything I will do with that fence. But right now I think that you know we're going to approve it so we see you have that satisfaction as soon as the motion
passes. >> Okay. >> So >> that's great to submit um what they're going to get. You're going to meet with the >> Yeah. because we want to Oh yeah, we can submit our >> exact type of manufacturer. >> If they have any details on what you would like to present, then we could add
a special >> I mean we could get an estimate for something other than wood. But I >> would leaning towards >> No. But I think that certainly in that location just based on the clinician's determinations and other and other
situations that some type of a synthetic synthetic fence would not be the way the way to go. >> That's what we thought too. >> I think that kicking it back to these other not taking back that we're saying we approve it pending and then I don't think we need to hear from them again.
We go to the fence. Oh, we don't have a problem set unless you disagreed with what somebody other some other body of the town would would want. I >> they say PBC. >> It would almost be like >> we don't care. We just want to replace
it with a similar fence. You know, it's an interesting procedural issue, but but I think that again why don't we take why don't we vote on these two motions first and then we'll because we're treating it as if it's been sort of approved, but we'll vote on Mr.
Anderson's motion first proposed. I move that we approve the uh addition renovation portion of the application as presented. Say >> Mr. >> Yes. >> Mr.
>> Yes. >> Mr. >> Yes. >> Sora. >> Yes. >> Mr. Ga. >> Yes. >> Forte. >> Yes. Mr. Smith. >> Yes. >> Okay. Okay. So, my motion is that we
approve the replacement of the 6T cedar light fence. Um, that that's the motion. We approve the we approve that placement of the existing lifeline fence. >> Mr.
>> Yes. >> Yes. >> Mr. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Mr. G. >> Yes. Yes, Mr. >> Yes. So, this sorry had an interesting comment that you know we have our role
here to approve the fence or reject the fence for whatever uh historic reasons we have. We're not seeing those here. So, you have the approval, but as a caveat to that approval, I am going to apply for Kate Fence from the remainder. I'll mention something in the memorandum
of action, but we'll do this inquiry to see if there's any other interest, you know, for anyone else or what have you. But as far as you're concerned, this commission has approved that fence as well. So it's not like you have to come back to us. You may be dealing with other parts of the burrow, other
departments, but you won't have to come back from us to us because when you go for your zoning application or wherever this takes you, you will know that you have the approval of that fence from this commission. I think that's probably most efficient way to do it. Is that sort of what you had in mind?
>> I I agree with that that way to go. Hopefully that works for you guys. >> Yes. Yeah, >> but in the meantime, if you could get us that detail, that would even, you know, >> better. >> So, we know exactly, you know, but um so again, the caveat is that you're saying it's a light kind of replacement. If
they say that, look, we can't do it. We can only get square tops or some other type of fence, which I doubt is the case, then obviously that may be a modification of what's being represented here. We'll have to cross that bridge when we get there. I don't think it's going to be a problem to them. They did
put in some fence posts during CO. So they had the fence posts at least just the the slats were not the same. I think they had the same kind of fence post. >> Okay. >> At least four years ago. May I ask are we free to apply for the zoning permit
at this point or do we need to wait for uh some formal written response? >> The member is going to get that to you. You can then put that with your zoning. >> Okay. >> Go to the office. >> Okay. that you could probably apply earlier if you wanted but he kind of
just >> he puts it aside >> put it on the side scooped from >> we're going away for two weeks next week so I was hoping we could get our application in so maybe he could just
put it to the side and when the memorandum is ready he can look at it. >> Um but >> great congratulations. Thank you very much. >> Appreciate it. >> Thanks. >> We have a few extra of these if you have
>> Oh, well, we probably you appreciate everybody's feedback. >> Thank you. Thank you, Susan. Okay. So, Everybody understanding I mentioned >> I came from
sorry my name um >> have a se welcome just introduce yourself for the record >> I'm Christina Miy 150 place uh >> and you are welcome you are I I wasn't here at the last meeting where we react I think you were intro introduced us
into liaison for the council. >> I am. It's >> just getting my uh sea legs on with all of this. So bear with me. >> So uh and that actually is our for uh our next element of business which is old business which is um bysentennial
bis chapel update. >> So um tell us about that. >> Yeah. So, actually, I thought Elise was going to be presenting on that uh aspect. So, I don't have too much in regards to
that. I do know what's going on with 21 Fair Haven Road. I have a whole update set forth for that. Um, so we were we received that Green Acres grant, the the $31800,000, which was great. And then we just uh
were awarded another 1.5 million in community project funding through Congressman Frank Palone. >> Oh, that was awarded. >> Yes. >> Okay. Because I I did send a letter uh I worked on I was sent an email from TJ Breenidge. I guess it was a
timesensitive letter of support of what's being proposed or the grant. >> Yeah. The March 20th email. Yeah. >> Yeah. So there was no time. We basically just jointly kind of prepared a letter and sent it. So I'm glad that that was approved. >> Yeah. So that was approved and then we
can now apply for the Mammoth County Open Space Funding um which is a maximum of 500,000 which we would have to match but now we have the funding to match for that. So that's very exciting because then at this point we would be able to cover all of 21 Fair
Haven Road if we were to win this last grant which we will know more by end of year. >> Have there been any any advancements in terms of intent or design or what's really >> this place it's kind of been the same. Um I know she's having a booth at Love
where you live day but nothing has moved forward as of yet. Have there been any designs submitted or people, you know, suggesting anything that's been taken under consideration by the burrow? >> Um, there was a design. Did you
>> Okay. Um, I believe there was a design. I'll I'll look into that more. >> Yeah. Rice. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Because we were talking about the living shoreline. >> Yeah. >> Um, so I'm just getting over the flu. my
little kids. Thank them. Um, there is a design. I'll look into it. I can uh get it to Sheila and we I can send it out to you for you to look over it. >> Okay. Yeah, >> supposedly it's preliminary because I
question uh having a bulkhead along the property where the direction seems to needs to be like the living shoreline as opposed to a ball. >> Yeah. And there was >> it was given out they had a 21 room
presentation and that's where I snag our coffee. If I don't I would make >> that was prior to our last meeting, right? interested. >> Tracy, it was a while ago. >> Yeah. So, Tracy reported on that the community input meeting. That one. Yeah,
I think she reported on that at our last when we were here. >> Yeah, it was the same one. >> So, there hasn't been any >> There hasn't been any. Yeah, that's why >> they promised me that it's not set in stone. So, I'm hoping that they make other changes. >> Yeah, there's really not much on the
actual design as of now. They're talking about potentially maybe putting in an amphitheater, but nothing's really set in stone. So, >> all preliminary at that. And the bice last I've heard was they're still in the
midst of I believe getting on the agenda for council. Um the paint right now because I obviously we know the history of what's happened. It was the original pain analysis that was done by the Goldstein group. >> And then there was the pain analysis
that was done by the group associated with I guess it was University of Pennsylvania. That was the um BCA group. Yeah, the BCA group. That's the report that we have. That's uh dated December 30 to 25. Is there um is it do you know
whether the Goldstein group I was under the impression of Goldstein group was reviewing the ECA recommendations and it was going to >> come up with some separate conclusions or recommendations. That is my understanding.
>> I'll look into that. >> Yeah. I think what Tracy reported at the last meeting, she said um and it's in our minutes that the next step was for Tracy to share um that report. >> Yeah, that would be
>> when you say that report, which report are you referring to? >> The DCA report. Hold on. >> I think she said that was provided to the team. >> Correct. Okay. for the purposes of information. I don't know if it was >> not necessarily I didn't hear anything
about it back. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, I'm on the historic association board as well. So, I was involved with getting this BCA getting the paint um approved. So, I know we are working on trying to get the actual
color that it was back in the day and not just white. So, um, >> all right. Does this board want to place a position? Um, >> yeah. And and we do, um, and I think that we probably would take it to a vote
as to what we think right as far as, uh, as far as what color it should be, but I, um, and again, um, we'll talk about it. I kind of suspect I know which direction it's going to go in based on a number of elements, but I think that, you know, again, I don't want to be premature. And I think we were um there
was an issue as to urgency or there was an issue uh we were talking about it as to timing. Um is this something that time is of the essence for us to make recommendation >> at this point? They're still finishing up the punch list with bsentennial hall and I know that is I believe on the
later end of it. So, um >> could you do us a favor and let us know whether the Goldstein group um is is planning on doing any kind of a response to this December 30th, 2025
PCA report? >> Yes, >> the um let me and I only say that because I think to make a reasoned and appropriate recommendation and if it's still a work in progress, we would need everything. Yeah. Yeah. Again, you know, it would be it would probably have to be
something fairly miraculous that they would have to uncover for there to be kind of a >> Right. And I think the discussion at the January meeting was very interesting because what we revealed is that the Goldstein group used a actually Do you want to skip to that? They used a very limited Oh,
>> source of data to make their white >> Yeah. It was all from photographs, right? >> Correct. They use photographs on um from how it was in the early 1900s, >> 1920s. Yeah, >> correct. And >> and then what this group did for VCA,
they you went back and I think Steve made a very interesting point which was considering that this chapel was shut down for um um its church services in 1975 when it was moved. When you count the number of years back to 1822,
the majority of the time that the this chapel was used as a chapel was actually green and a shorter amount of time has been white. So that was very interesting and I think it's it what Tracy said is that um those results were shared um
with the Goldstone group but you're right it was left a little ambiguous if does that mean that there's going to be now a new set of data that we have to review and I thought we were going to make a motion based just on the PCA input and that was the purpose of the
vote and we said let's delay it till >> okay >> um can I I want to make a comment. What? Go ahead. >> I was going to say I just think if there's something that's still, you know, you got to take everything into consideration and if it's just, you know, make a reason decision. If they are, if they're not going to come back,
they basically just going to say, "Well, we're going to stand by our original findings and conclusions, um, then we'll base our decision on that. Um, if they feel as though it's necessary to them to analyze what BCA has come up with or if there's any other separate findings or
maybe there's other photographs or other information that they have, we'll consider that. Um but but you know I do I again I see the direction where this is going. Um and uh honestly the obviously the
evidence that's been presented if you compare the reports it's clear that the recommendations of the BCA group and the public freeing is the way to go especially when compounded by the letter that uh that Steve had received from the congregation in terms of their intent. I mean, it's, you know, it's obviously,
you know, think anybody would be hardressed to sort of suggest that it be white, but I think that you got to wait until that decision is that that information. >> There's there's been a couple of uh well, probably the last seven weeks I've been to regarding this. There's there's been a goal that the this chapel would
be painted before the 250th anniversary. Now, now there are still being of public event being scheduled at this chapel with the art the art in May. It's not going to be a three-week paint job. they they need to repair their windows and maybe take some things out. Um, but I I
just want to summarize and then that document did did summarize some of it, but what KDY was saying there's a there's sort of a timeline in there. It's not clear how long it was green. As I went back and talked to them, it was probably green at least for a couple decades, anywhere from a couple decades to four decades. And after that though,
there was other colors before white had it was yellowish and greens mixed together and sort of tan things. in probably 1930 to 1940 it might have turned white as when it was whitewashed. Um but since I'm going to read some
notes here um we're the historic preservation committee I understand is responsible as an advisory function to promote historic preservation and historic and history in Fair Haven. I don't know what's going to happen in the next
couple weeks, but um Fish Chapel is the only historic landmark in Fair Haven. It's badly needed renovation. I've been told for two years that it's going to be paint. So I this thing is just getting very frustrating. Um but because it's in
it needs exterior renovation and your principle of reservation is to protect and preserve distinctive architectural features and finishes. Um, it's clear that the paint should be based on a historical preservation principle. There's been a lot of debate and as as
you say, I think it's very definitive what color it was. I can't imagine what what could be a counter argument unless they say the science is fed and they it didn't really work. Um, the color green was chosen by the original congregation and church. uh we
have the beginning of evidence pallet was a multicolor pallet but it wasn't white at least for several decades and I think we should honor that legacy of the original congregation as well as the wishes of bear haven a church uh and
advise council that we believe the original colors were as reported in this and that they should move as quickly as they can to begin to uh preserve the exterior we can say move as quickly as she can, but it's been going on one for years. It's
actually been going for 50 years. Um, so I mean, I intend to make a motion that we make a recommendation and give advice to council to do that. Now, I guess the question is, are we going to wait for something else or can we do that in such
a way that says unless there's something material that's changed, we are making this recommendation. I guess it's >> my opinion is that it We at our January meeting, we were to use a very um formal
term stoked about the report. We were very impressed with the science, not being scientists in this matter. We were impressed with at least described the the level of diligence that was done that day, the number of samples that
were taken. Um and we also acknowledged the elephant in the room, which was u Mrs. Pat Drummond stuck by her recommendation from 197 1995 >> and we felt that it was sort of again a
technical term poo pooed and we felt really honored that the the research seemed to support the anecdotal her research and then of course the letter and that if the council comes back and says thanks but we wanted to go back to Damon and see what they says I
think it's on them I think the burden is on them to say thanks HBC you see, but we've done additional research and then if that's what we hear, then we can if we hear something different, then maybe we gather again and say something. But at this point, given that July 4th is
very soon, I don't even know if we're on the timeline to get it done by then unless Christina, you could speak to that. >> But you said I'm saying I think vote on it and if the council says >> I mean I do have my information on it. Yeah,
>> look, I I think that it's probably a minuscule dimminimous possibility that there's anything that the Goldstein >> people are going to come up with that's going to counteract the evidence that we that's produced in the BCA report. But I just don't want to prematurely make the decision. I don't know whether another
month is going to make a make a difference because I don't think that the burrow is going to do anything in a month. >> It could help. Well, what's your recommendation in terms of >> I would recommend what Steve said. Make a motion and you know because I believe
in science and this color that they found. I believe Tracy feels the same way and um Michael Demiselli. So I feel like we would have a pretty good um way of getting it. But I cannot speak for
them. But I think we could at least try and we could always come back to the drawing boards. >> You say the historic association they are they um how have they addressed this? Are they simply saying >> honestly I don't want to speak on behalf of the historic association because I
have not been at the last couple of meetings because I just had a baby uh four months ago. So I've been just kind of catching up on a lot of things. So, but I do think you should move forward if if you feel so, >> you know, I just don't want our
recommendation to not really be considered or you know, there's this is still a work in progress uh on behalf of the burrow. >> I think the bureau had the opposite expectation because initially they didn't want to fund it. So then the the
historic association came our own budget and I thought the council said, "All right, go for it. thanks for funding it. And they did >> and and they asked the HBC, you tell us what your recommendation is. >> Yes, they did. They did. >> They didn't say >> back and forth discussion.
>> Unless you've heard something different. >> No, no, >> unless you've heard something different. >> No, like I said, I just again that was what what the information that I gleaned was that the Goldstein group was finalizing it. But look, I've got, you know, you as the liaison for the council is making the recommendation that we
make a motion on it or that the mo motion be made. So I I think quite frankly from what we have in front of us, again, the letter from the congregation, it's going to be a unanimous vote on behalf of the green color chosen by the BCA. So again, I just if there's
something that comes out that could change it or some type of I just don't want to put us in a precarious procedural position. >> Yeah. It's just that there hasn't been an urgency to do this
for a very long time even if people were. So, um, this they did say and at the meeting when they were about to vote that it was white. They were advised that it was white with a 95% probability. Um, couple council people
spoke up and said, "Shouldn't we get a little bit better evidence?" And they said, "Yes, and let's wait to hear from men, but he said that to the preservation commission." Um, so now we've got I I can't imagine what be
changed either unless somebody simply said the mission of um a preservation is not to be so concrete about what happened when that church was painted, but to think of other things that have happened in the last hundred years. And
there are people who who would take a position like that. >> And in fact, it was stated informally, I mean, that maybe there are other factors. Maybe we want We maybe the town wants another white building since Clare he was literally
figuratively going that direction and I think if that's what the council's criteria are they have the right their criteria I think our criteria is deep >> it's such a I don't think it's premature if it's if it's stated in in way you do
your probs which I know it would be it's a recommendation based on what >> current information >> current should additional information, you know, brought to light, you know, that based on not only the recent but
also when it was originally researched back that that both of them came up uh with very similar uh results >> and and they don't use the word green per se. They they have a paragraph here that says BCA's recommendation for
restoration finishes and color matches are provided below the colors of the mask blah blah blah. And then they have this pallet here. >> It has a pallet. >> So I would say if we go forward with a motion, it should say recommend. And and I think Tracy actually said don't just say,
>> she said don't um >> or she said don't just say we recommend BCA. She said write in our own words. So we could say as per paragraph on page whatever motion that you go forward with. I do have some I do have some language where
I can make this motion about basically the findings are the chapels feature featured a sophisticated multi-tonone palette of green and that poly chromatic scheme stayed that way for decades before it began to change to other colors and then eventually to white
that's that's sort of the history. So it's not a there shouldn't be a debate about whether it's 10 years or 20 years or 30 years that it was green. we know what it what the original people there uh wanted it to be. And I one other thing that cropped up in looking
at this that you have to put in perspective. I hope and maybe we can state this some way that by bringing it back to its original color will also give the historic association a chance to put in context more of the history of that church.
Civil War was over in 1865. Um, Fisk was appointed by Lincoln to head up a big piece of reconstruction. That stopped by 1877. I don't even 12 years. And then four years later, they're
building this church after Jim Crow had returned and all much of the benefits of the 15th amendment sort of disappeared in the south. And the people at that church uh many of them their uh descendant their pe they're not
descendants their their ancestors were lived through that whole period. So it was really a a really interesting time in history and it wasn't just Bear Haven. This this was all over the southern part of the east the northern states and and particularly in New
Jersey. But you get to that color they can tell some other stories too about history. It'll be great for the kids and people there. to see that we have it. >> All right. So, the easy way we'll handle this then is as far as taking a vote uh based on the recommendation made uh that
uh that we do uh take a vote. I will make I'll propose that we take a vote on whether or not we approve the BCA report and uh or not. So, we'll take a vote on that. >> I'll I'll second that motion.
Um, >> if you're in favor of taking a vote, are we voting whether to vote? >> Yeah. >> Just so I'm Mr. Pa. >> Yes. >> Mr. Anderson, >> yes. >> Mr. Heler, >> yes. >> Mrs. Priscilla, >> yes. >> Mr. Goff, >> yes.
>> Mrs. Forte, >> yes. >> Mr. Smith, >> yes. Okay. So with that being said though, um Andrew, like you indicated, I'm a little bit questioning in terms of if we're going to adopt the findings of the BC or reported what that's going to be the recommendation, what do we do
about a specific color because again in fact someone whether whatever that report said back in the 90s got something right according to BCA in terms of the a green color. Who knows whether or not it was close or near
whether it's one of the many variances of that color. But do we I mean they've given a specific color match, >> right? >> So do you know do we adopt that or do we just basically say something similar that I mean that's a little bit of a difficult and sort of muddy thing to
recommend there. Um, well, their chemical analysis says that these color matches and these companies work with historic preservation people were the color. They're as close as they get with what they know with the deterioration and things of that. If you don't go with the
color mass, which includes the window trend, deciding everything else, you have people sitting around deciding the color. Um how would you >> or what what is similar you know that that that's
>> that just leads to indecision. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah it does. And the paint colors the paint colors that are there now is they are not the same color as what they as what they found as the first layer of big paint chapel >> and the technology they use it's
different you know. >> Sure. >> You know it's a whole host of potential reasons. Could there be a a kind of a we recommend because it's Goldstein, right? That's going to ultimately own this project. Do
they or are we contracting out a different painter? >> I am unclear as to that at this current time, but I can find out. Could there be a step in the process where wherever paint says all right this the pal we come up and and come up
to the pallet they they do a pad rendering and they show what it looks like as the final step. Would that need to be approved by us or do we want to step out of that? >> Well then what are you doing? you're basically adopting the BCA report saying that that you know you're adopting their
recommendations but when you do a CAD recommend CAD render showing that recommendation you may not like it. >> Uh so that's a you know >> you can jump in >> you may not like the green one. >> That's that's the point. I mean they
they suggest as a as a preservation uh as preservation experts that you not that you actually adopt uh the chemical formulations with that attached to they're attached to the numbers on those things but they don't
actually have any comments on this >> actually. Yes. But I don't like the chartreuse. I think it >> you don't like I'm sorry. >> Oh, okay. >> It's chartreuse. It's >> a yellowish color. >> It's the main color of the building.
It's >> current. >> It can't be the university. >> Yes. No, because I have a picture that I took down. It's hanging on the wall in a tennial ball and it looks like um it's
the 1920 1925 picture and it looks like the sides are green. The siding is green, but the trim is white. >> Yeah, trim is white, but it definitely was not white when this when the
building was painted. was browns and brown bricks and they they got they they didn't just do a side of building. They did stop and they did the windows ins I'm sure over time it was painted with a number of variations. Some of those are
closer to the original and some that went far. I mean what what I see here locally is at least the train station here in uh Redbank and that seems to be a fairly uh
accurate um you know kind of pallet of from what I've seen of of this period it's clearly not in fashion anymore. I mean it's just not it but there's a different time and place you know and I think that's part of the discussion is it do you want to kind of bring it back
to what it was or you know do something else I mean and actually the Allen house down in Shrewberry that thing was white as could be and had all sorts of stuff you wouldn't even have been able to tell that barely it was a historic building
uh in the 50s and but you know they went back did, you know, the red that it is, you know, so prominent, you know, not not my choice of what I want to paint my house, but you know, it's when you look at it, it clearly reflects a period building
and they've done enough stuff that isn't really in character now. So, you know, um, as much as, you know, I I would not paint my house structures either or or whatever you can call that color, but uh, I think that is a, you know, a good
I mean, just through the science and and and studies that they've done. I think that's probably what it was when it was originally done. Did it change 20 years out? I bet it did. Or or 30 years, 40 years. Well, the interesting thing is
my understanding is that in the 1800s, white ink was very expensive, which is why they were painting everything bulky colors. So that when they could afford it and when or with white paint became more affordable, that's when they
started painting everything white in I know my great grandparents have the multicolored tape. I don't have a picture of it. It would have been nice, but um now it's white. >> It's interesting. I mean, from from my
observations that there, you know, to the late Victorian and and and other kind of movements that were happening in the the mid 1800s, there was a lot earthier, a lot richer kind of colors. And then there was a a big movement uh
particularly you know like the Chicago World's Fair where they made this white city and that became you know like and suddenly everything there was all these colors got painted white after that after after that I I don't think that was the the only you know reason but
that was a major motivator was so well attended and publicized at that time um and with the major architects it's not history at that point I think that of >> getting getting to the motion. I think that um maybe uh
we are a little bit more we should be a little bit more general with our recommendation in a sense that adopting the the conclusions of the BCA report which then gives some latitude to the bureau but obviously the recommendations
is of a specific paint color um and for the reasons that are outlined by reference the um the report which is comprehensive in nature and our position the commission's position with regard ard to what we what we recommend or our recommendation recommendation is what's
contained in that which basically has their color or paint recommendations but it's not like we are recommending this necessary color I don't know what anybody thinks about that um but I also think as far as the recommendation is concerned in our function which is an
advisory commission uh which is based on preserving the historic cont uh text of this structure it It's clear that the green color is the way to go just based on our position. What the bureau decides to do with our recommendation is a
different thing. But uh but clearly for our perspective that's that's well yeah I think that that's it and and I don't want to speak for everybody else but that does seem that's our goal and and our perspective of it and whether like it or not. >> Yeah. and and that's and the like you
said the burrow or other factors may may you know have a different point of view and you know but at least from what we do that's that's what we're interested in is to try to maintain as much as the disreion terms of the specificity
>> have somebody on there but >> okay sure >> well thank you >> hi uh Stephanie Adams, 2:30 Oxford. Um, just wanted to I I don't unfortunately have the report
in front of me, but I've read it several times and just in reference to the green color um and to respond to Susan, um there's definitely a difference between the green that's in the report and the green that's on the building. I think that, you know, they went a little bit
yellowower than probably what the original color was, but given that they probably weren't working with the kind of science that we are. Um, you know, I think they tried to match it as best they can. Um, I agree with the gentleman. I apologize. I don't know your name. It's it's very similar to
what you see at the Redbank train station. Um, so it's less of a chartreuse and more of like a pistachio maybe um, type of color. So, I'm I'm glad that you guys are kind of, you know, leaning into the science and and at least making that recommendation. Um,
I think that, you know, to the extent that you could even encourage the governing body to to consider the color of the Redbank train station as opposed to what's on the building right now because it really is it makes a difference. Um, also I don't have the
report in front of me, but I recall that the Steve, maybe you could correct me, that they weren't sure about some of the trim, about the brown color. I think that there was some I don't remember what it was. Um,
because the the train station and then some of the buildings that you see in Asbury, you see a darker green trim. Um, you don't typically see that brown with that green, I don't think, as much. And so I I I recall that there was some
question about the brown trim. They thought maybe it had been painted over so many times that maybe they couldn't access the original color. Um, but I do appreciate >> Yeah. Okay. Um, and so I don't know if it was that darker green, but it it is a nice
again I think aesthetically it's a little bit more pleasant. you know, the brown and the chartreuse is a little jarring, but if you do look at a building like the Redbank train station and a couple I've seen a couple in Asbury, I actually went looking for them. Um, it's aesthetically a little
bit more kind of easier on the eyes, so to speak. Um, so I I appreciate you guys um, you know, taking this into consideration and and making your recommendations. Uh, you know, the the the science is amazing. We were all so
excited. that felt like a time machine, you know, really looking back, being able to see exactly what was on that building all those years ago. So, I I do appreciate the work that you guys are doing. Thank you. >> Y Thank you. >> Um, again, it's getting back to that topic
of the framing of the motion. What's What is everybody's thoughts on that? >> I have one other you should probably add. down. It had nothing to do with color, but the chimney is separated from the building. And when they paint that building, they should probably take that chimney down
because it's going to come down anyway. It's going to leave a paint. It's literally the space has to it's not react. So, >> I'm not going to include that. The other comment I had was um besides just saying we recommend that
you accept the findings related to the color, you should add some context of why it's important. So it's it's different from making a recommendation when somebody builds a new house in the historic district. There's a reason that we want for this original color to be
used because it represents an era of the Bay Haitian African-American community which almost doesn't exist now. But they chose this color and the current AM church feels that should be supported. And there's something besides just the
color that we're talking about. Um and and if we don't mention the African-American community of importance, the historical importance of that community choosing the color in fairing, we're sort of missing. We're missing something. I Steve, what do you think about this idea? You spent a lot
of time and effort really on this topic. Um you want to draft the memorandum? >> Sure. I think that uh you know, you know, obviously I think I have no problem I mean I'll second I'll sign it. You know, I think maybe what we should
do is um a couple Yeah. circulated any comments. >> That'd be fair. Yeah. >> Because I you know, you obviously spent a lot of time and effort on it. Um and I want to give you some recognition of that because you really like spearheaded it for this commission. You know, you've
gone out even before you've gone out and like solicited people to get uh to see if there's any other companies that do it. you know, you've really taken the responsibility on your own more than just as a commission member. So, I've got no problem with that. >> So, I do some kind of
deal >> and ultimately it needs to be accessible to the the public here, too. >> Yeah. and because it's an important issue and I want to make sure that uh that members of the public that are reading it really know that the liberation that went into it and you know the historic context as well
especially since you know you're kind of ancillary investigation and reaching out to the congregation which I think has to be considered in our decision. >> Okay. So, are we voting for uh how does that work? Because we don't vote on your your me your your memos. We
don't vote on the actual motion that's great >> that we that we uh approve the recommendations of BCA >> and Steve will draft the wording of the >> Yeah. So, Okay. So, I I'm going to make the generic motion that we uh that this
commission approves the findings, conclusions, and recommendations of the BCA organization as obtained in the December 30th, 2025 letter to Elise Casey of the Historic
Association. And I also believe that we should incorporate by reference that December 30th, 2021 attach it to the memorandum of action. Um, so it becomes basically a part of that >> and permission to add some context to that.
>> Well, that's I think what you're >> I just do that. >> Yeah. But again, um, you know, uh, it doesn't have to be a historic, you know, >> no, something that really is, you know, we're dealing with structure and, uh,
preservation of the color of that structure as it was originally historic. >> You know, basically what the way it was originally. So if there's a motion that's even in there the approval motion I guess then what's the second that
>> yes >> yes >> Mr. Heler >> yes >> yes >> Mr. Yes, >> yes, Mr. >> Yes, >> Steve. I would suggest um the u everything has been available to the
council. Um obviously our meeting discussion is available on YouTube and all that. >> I would attach Reverend Smith's letter as that's the only thing that they the council has been privy to. I don't think >> has council actually seen the VCA say they have.
>> Yes. Yeah. >> All right. Speak. >> Um I wasn't here so I can't participate. But we have a motion and approve January 27th place.
So motion to approve the January 22nd. Thank you. Right. Yeah. 27th. Yeah. Uh those minutes. Thank you. All right. Excellent. Mr. >> Yes.
>> Mr. Mr. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> And I need a little second. So I'll make a motion close. a lot of stuff. >> Thank you very much. >> Yeah, thank you.
>> Welcome again, Christina. >> Great. >> Uh, real quick before you go, um, I get my number out. I want to potentially set some time with you guys. Then you get coffee or and for beer.