okay this is a regular meeting of the Fair Haven Planning Board adequate notice of this meeting has been given pursuant to the provisions of the Open Public Meetings Act at the time of the board reorganization in January of this year the board adopted its regular meeting schedule for the year notice of the
schedule was sent to and published in the Asbury Park Press on January 31st 2025 and the Two River Times on January 23rd 2025 that notice was also posted on the bulletin board in Burough Hall and has remained continuously posted there as required by the statute a copy of the
notice is and has been available to the public and is on file in the office of the burough clerk a copy of the notice has also been sent to members of the public as have requested such information in accordance with the statute adequate notice having been given the board secretary is directed to include this statement in the minutes of
this meeting so we'll do roll call mrs bush here mr olsen yes mr newell mr nao here mr wolf here mr
na uh Mr anderson here mrs binan mr bailey present okay uh sorry i aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for it stands one nation under God
indivisible with liberty and justice for all [Music] i know brian do you want to I had to learn it too is there a rule i mean so he's technically a a member of the board and
it's a class you could probably tell me Dan say two it's a certain class class and it means that he's also a member of council so there's an appointed member on the boards that he is a member of council for the zoning board he's the
liaison oh so it's not Oh so it's not an actual membership on the zoning board yeah even though I tried to come up exactly well to do that you're on the base all right well
I'm excited okay all right um so we have no old business or new business we're going to move right to the administrative items uh first is the the regular meeting minutes from March 18th uh they were distributed before the
meeting i don't know if anyone has any uh comments make a motion to approve second yes mr yes yes mr anderson yes
yes uh will uh the next item is the approval of the executive session minutes there are any comments nope make a motion to approve second miss Bush yes
yes mr pal yes mr v yes mr anderson yes mr yes uh the next item on the agenda is uh last last meeting we um we created a
resolution for the approval of Sandy Hook Seafood LLC 615 619 River Road lot 25 lots 10.01 and 11 and so um that resolution was was drafted and put
before uh distributed to the board prior so all we have to do is approve the resolution um I met or or spoke with Doug on the phone there were some some minor changes that went went through with with Rich Gardella
uh and the applicant that were not at all material in substance or form to the resolution that we drafted um and and so you know there some grammat grammatical changes and things of that nature so um
I'm I'm recommending that we approve the resolution um uh if there are any comments or concerns well I'll make a motion to approve the resolution second Mr
yes mr yes next one did you say anything no I said on the minutes that Mr p yes mr yes
mr h yes mr yes okay so um so uh we have uh Michael Sullivan here um for our um for our
master plan re-examination discussion um Michael we are having uh I guess uh really hard time getting uh getting started and and sort of what our can Yeah absolutely please and so we thought
it important um to have you here today um so that we could start getting getting organized and and also sort of start on first steps which we believe is a survey um that needs to be designed and completed and or I'm sorry needs to
be designed and distributed to um to the public and so we wanted to talk to you about how we sort of get started forming the different committees we have um the different we have uh one two we have
four one two three four five um different um committees um that that we will form i think the remainder of the the plan document would be would be done by you know this group
collectively um but but we we we have land use housing circulation utilities conservation recreation and open space as the areas that we feel are going to need you know primarily the most work um
and focus and so um we have um members of the of the board that have volunteered to lead those uh lead those different committees and that's consistent with the framework that I've provided to you i mean it seems like it align because we met before you were here one other time right and uh and
yeah so that aligns with the framework that I I had articulated that's right so um I guess what do we what do we do at this point in time i think that's kind of like where where you know we've we've gotten your cost estimate we
wanted to start I think with um I you know I guess the design of the survey and and a timeline for that and then also perhaps you you know what would a you know a more detailed timeline or project plan look like for this group
okay um so the public visioning survey that's really an overarching kind of thing right that's meant to really extract general themes and to start to bring focus to the other um committees and what to focus on um and so uh the
questions really need to be coming out of I think that each of these different um plan elements um the reexamination report is not really a plan element it's just the the statutory things we're going to do um but land use circulation
conservation recreation utility that kind of thing so you should be thinking about questions that would really um focus on the issues that maybe you've already started to understand about things that are happening um and I'm
sorry I didn't bring a a sample survey with me um but we can you know the survey would have demographics in it up front okay and then you would have your series of questions and they can be broken down by the sector of um focus
whatever the focus is on that so the de so who so the demographics we have to get a a demographic survey of the town or it every survey you include demographic information so you know who's responding if you are um only
getting responses from everybody who's 85 and older I see a point or everybody who's 18 and younger then you need to understand that because it could impact how you plan for things if if folks you know folks are retired so you mean the demographic information from the survey yeah the demographics that informs the
answers so there' be cross tabs uh that would happen and those cross tabs would indicate you know in this bracket in this gender whatever it is answer these questions this way so you can correlate that and that gives you it's more meaningful than just finding out the
wrong okay so so that's that's that's how these surveys are set up and [Music] um I I think the first step is really for your committees to begin to uh draft questions that they want
answers to and then we would review that and we would see what we think may be missing or what should be emphasized maybe there's multi-part questions we try to keep it as simple as possible because these things are they can get unwieldy um and you want them to be able
to give you the information as clearly as you can as an example um I I kind of jumped on the utilities uh um segment u and we just looking back some of my notes like we've done a lot of work in town on storm water management you know
um would it would an example a question be to the in the survey like do you do you the public feel as if storm water management has been resolved as an issue in Fair Haven or is that am I you have well the first part of that question needs to be explained right um you can't
assume everybody understands management means right so um but it it may be as simple as you know uh has your house flooded in the past you know x do you have repetitive flooding at your house you know and then if so where's your address or something like that um
do you think uh because it's really the assessment of your engineer to determine whether or not there's public um what what for instance what a solution would be to someone who answered I repetitive losses I'm in the thing you know whatever and you know is that something
the public needs to fix from a capital perspective or is it something that needs to you know regulations need to change you know or you let's say that somebody had a house that was repetitively flooded and they ran into zoning issues with respect to raising it or modifying it in some way then that
would indicate some sort of regulatory response otherwise it may be a capital response so I guess I guess my question for is do do we need to make some sort of decision as whether or not we we are engaging on this contract right is that the first
and foremost thing or we already decided that i think we've already decided that good yeah i felt like at the last meeting it wasn't public i don't I don't think it's been decided yet at the governing body level um we did have a conversation about um about it uh so I
think do we need it do we need it okay I'll see you guys later well I don't know if um you know obviously it's the first time I've done master plan i don't know if you guys would if it would make sense
for you guys to recommend what you want but there's a pro yes okay so that's what I'm driving in order to engage my firm what what are the next steps involved there's a there's a process we were talking with the CFO about it a
couple different paths to take and we were sort of trying to figure that out at the last executive session okay so the the I I was under the impression that the board that this had been provisioned in the budget right that was the whole point of getting the estimate was so that they could that we
had I think there is a provision in the budget to do a master plan but I don't think that we formally engaged but is that correct is that your That's correct yeah okay so So we're on the same page now okay um so there will be a master
plan but there's a a process you know Nancy was walking us through sort of what we have to do okay i I think we covered it in the last couple meetings i don't think we're we're certainly not I mean there's not a whole lot of time on the calendar
between now and what uh 2026 is August of August 26 you know I I guess my expectation is that this process is not going to be a short one um you know no we spelled it out to be 10 to 12 months in here 10 12 months 12 months let's at least within
the time frame no I think I think we're getting we're getting off the right foot um I will tell you that uh my firm is currently uh deep in housing plan production you may know something about
affordable housing um and uh so in terms of resources you know we can begin these initial steps um as we get towards the through the summer but um the resources in my office really won't open up and I said this to the CFO when I had a
conversation with him too until we get to that late June when we're just having hearings and stuff on on master we're doing about 30 plans uh for different towns does that 12 months still that still accurate then like based on the Yeah it's it's accurate i think that you know
you know I've been planning post June 30th to dive into this i see and um and in terms of resource allocation and so we're ready for it and um we'll move as fast as you guys can move um we've got a good team we've got more than one person
who's going to work on this um in various respects whether it's mapping analysis survey work and things like that so we're we're well staffed to do it it's just that at this period um I don't want to have anybody you know right so I think that's the I mean I
think that's one of the things we were I I guess trying to figure out last meeting is what do we do between now and when there's resources to be to be applied like I I I assume like we can't just come in here on in the June meeting and be ready to run well just so you
know I'm the back stop for all my people right so they can't get to something I have to do right so um I think these these are really good questions for I'm really getting a sense of where you need to where we need to do some pre pre-planned work pre-planned development
work and um we can dedicate some time to it to get those things moving um so that we're not just sitting here waiting until June um that's that's the way I plan to go so hopefully that works for you i have a couple questions sure can
you talk about the community engagement how do you how do you run that process you did our last plan correct with 10 years it would be better yeah said the world's changed since then um but how do you how do you what's the normal what's the standard way to get feedback from the
community well there's there's no standard way every town's a little different right and so what we've laid out is um the way to do this and the public engagement the the community visioning survey very high level survey is the first thing and we and we usually like to start with that because it
really starts people focusing um and um and then uh once we start with that there's uh committee meetings u but then we have an open house that we scheduled here there's the public planning board meetings um there's other things that we
put in the in the scope are optional in case that you need them because every town's a little different um open we have an open house in here um which is uh which is something we like to do um uh add-ons you know you could do popups
where there's somebody you know who's kind of hanging around at like let's say it's a supermarket or whatever and you have a table and people come up and it's like oh here's what's going on do you have any questions about this particular thing um if there are special if there are neighborhood based things that you
want to do you think that certain issues are relevant certain just to a neighborhood like the business district or something um then you could do something there that really focuses that way we've also included in the base scope um meetings with uh focus groups okay and those focus groups usually are
folks uh who are not planning board members or the general public but they have specific interests let's say that it's the retail merchants association or it's the the residential realtors or just the realtors like and let's hear what they have to say because very often
those groups will have uh things to say about regulations processes um capital uh investments that they think that the public should make and so those are the various things and then um what we do is as we move through this process we start
to build this um layers of the input that we've gotten and that becomes really the the basis for the thinking that the committees will do and ultimately the you know we set we usually set up a master plan committee um to make the decisions to you know
when decisions have to be made um that could be the whole planning board or it can be a sub commmittee I mean in most towns it's planning board members and maybe environmental commission member it really depends on who's going to be involved um when we were doing
Princeton's master plan we even had uh one of the capital planning people from the uh university on that team uh so so there's a lot of different ways to do it um and we're open to that right so uh if you if you look at our proposal and you
see things that make sense and you see things that don't make sense and you like to modify then we want to know that um but there's lots of ways to get public input um if there are the the the open house is held down the road because
we want to be able to understand the broad issues of the public that they have um and then we want to bring them into the um the world of the committees and then based on that there may be questions that these committees are
developing options let's say and you want to test those out so we don't go to the open house and say what do you think we go to the open house and we say "Here's a particular issue you know and here's a way to respond to it." And there'll be somebody manning that station right maybe there's five
stations because we have five different things we're talking about here and um it gives them an opportunity to be more focused um and to focus on specific questions you have that you want answered so that you it can inform a master plan is that helpful yes so just kind of
piggybacking off that explanation so in a let's say we had an open house are are are we looking at like I'm trying to understand the artifacts like how we're getting how we're eliciting input is it presentation that that you or others are giving is it poster boards drawings like
like what is it that they're reacting to yeah i mean typically one of the and it really depends on the information you want to get from them um uh for instance in um in some towns you know when we're talking about housing or building or development you know we might have a
board that has you know single family house you know twin you know small multif family larger multif family and have that correlated with um where should be located right this is just an example and folks come in and you give
them like tape dots and they just go like this you know what their preferences are and there maybe they're colorcoded so it's you know red yellow green or it's you know one two three here's my number one choice second choice third surgery that's that's one way of doing it um if you had for
circulation and mobility I think that we've done and this is this is burdensome takes a while to process it but um having folks actually mark up individual maps of the of the borrow and and indicate where they think there are
problems with let's say pedestrian uh crowd you know this is a very walkable place right but there are places where there's conflicts between cars and people so let's reinforce where those are and when you get to your master plan element then you're talking about those
more specifically and focusing whe you know policies whether it's um a capital investment there in order to um fix these issues or it's just budgeting for improvements or it's regulations whatever that is those are some of the
examples um and it's not a one-sizefits-all but generally we use boards we have physical information um and we tabulate that we try to make it as objective as possible but this is a subjective world all that objective data is going to come
down to subjective uh decisions by you one of the things that I I try to coach wars is that there are some folks who don't like to make decisions and they want the data to just tell them what to do and and it's never going to do that you're always going to have to make some sort of decision no and the reason I asked is because in
in recent history we we've I think it's been effective the open houses around when the the design for the police station and the the community center modifications and um I've seen that work really well and it and it makes sense because you got something physical to
look at react to give comments on ultimately what we're producing is you know like a PDF document so it's a little bit I'm just curious like how you guys kind of bring that to life to get that feedback because people will no matter how many sessions we set up no matter how people people are invited
there will be people that say they were not engaged people always say that and so it's you know how do we you know and and maybe there's a digital element we haven't talked about too that's more open than just like a you know a static survey maybe there's other ways of of presenting whatever the information ends
up being you know but the consumer yeah so in other in other uh projects we have built engagement hubs digital engagement hubs okay and and just to get back to the open house nobody goes in there unequipped with information you know by
that time we've done an analysis we're starting to develop the questions and decisions and so we we we give a briefing like one of the boards would be a briefing right you know here's the issues and here's why these are important and we want to hear from you right so it's not just what do you think it's there's an issue here and we try to
articulate that um with the engagement hubs the engagement hubs are really a place for folks to go for ongoing information on the development of the plan and ultimately the plan itself and it can be hosted by you it can be hosted on a separate website with with links to
your uh website there's lots of ways to do that and there's different tiers of these engagement hubs i mean there are some that are just off the charts and there's some that would be a reasonable spend for you guys right so depending on what you want to do but those engagement
hubs are great because if you'll have meeting dates on there you know you'll have you create a a list you know people sign up so they get alerts things like that so you do that kind of a thing um and so when the people stand up when you're about to adopt a plan and they say "Well I never heard about this and
nobody talked to me." you can I mean I've I've had people do it that will read you know a two-page list of every opportunity they've had to talk with you so I mean that's that's part of the appendices that we would put in the plan and they would they could be hosted
either on your website or on an engagement the one thing we exclude in here which is critical to this is communications and how to get people going right and that's it's a critical piece of this it's something that is time consuming you need you know for
instance um you know press releases um making sure those are working making sure it's tied in with all the meetings and things like that and it's repetitive communications with respect to these things are very repetitive particularly with surveys with a survey you you got
to build the survey once you've built the survey you know a week you know two or three weeks out you're telling people the survey is coming the survey is coming check your inbox the survey is coming then you tell them the survey is here then you tell them okay you've got two weeks to do it then you tell them
you got one week then you tell them it's closing tomorrow three days two days and then afterwards you thank them and uh and then that's that's how it goes so these communications um are very important and if you're looking for engagement and you don't do that communication side you may not get
everybody you want just like just our experience john I'm glad you brought that up because I think that just the simple bros comes out every Monday right like being should be on there with the you know you know during this period of time right we should always have
constantly you know a tile on there and you know these hubs aren't too ownersome to kind of build out like I think even from the get-go with you know what even if it's just organized in our five categories or it's you know those five categories with like high level issues
that we resurrect from you know prior materials and it just kind of gets the ball rolling that this is this is happening in 12 months so right the the other part of the communications is branding okay that's also something you do so that there's recogniz recognizable
iconography um throughout the process so that when people see it oh that's the master plan update that's the master plan update i understand what that is um and we often um we can we can bring in uh iconography early if we agree on it
that would be used for each of the different elements right so people are queued into them so again getting back to what what do we do like today one this is a D question right I think we
need to probably come to a place where we are in agreement that we want to send a recommendation to the to the government line yes are we in agreement I am yeah that we h we hashed it last
month yes yeah we ended that meeting saying we were going forward great so that's on on a a new master plan not a revamp of the old that's the question you're answering no what we were answering was the the proposal of
the the provided us the cost estimate and a process and we went through that over a couple sessions and your CFO has this you know we talked about it yeah i have to be honest so I think your I think your question is so
administratively we need to officially engage with our partner on this piece of work with the statement of work and all that got that i think practically can you give us some hints tonight as far as if we have these five or between now and
May 20th which is our next meeting yeah get your committee set up um every member you know get them get them nailed down um if there are one of the things that been very effective is having uh meetings with staff who are and you say
this in the proposal that are responsible for certain aspects of it like maybe it's all rich Cardella I don't even know but um whoever these staff people would be um it's very effective particularly with the recreation uh understanding all the
elements the all the facilities the age of the facilities things like that it's very helpful to do that um and learn about uh you know the folks that charge your recreational facilities will tell you oh this field you know can't we can't hold grass on this plate or we
need lights here or whatever it is um and so that's very effective and it's not something that necessarily a planning board member would know or environmental commission member would know so so find those people and and we can integrate those folks into here i have to be honest i I thought I was
coming here today just to talk about the proposal i didn't realize we were actually talking about this so I'm not really prepared as much as you would like me to be i was prepared to talk about the proposal no I mean we're I I think having trouble getting started right like Yeah like we just sort of
like right yeah uh but so so the first thing is get your committee set up let them let them know what the the process be we need to we should develop a schedule I think that's really important like a projected schedule for
meetings and public I mean this all has to be scripted out when the survey is going to happen when the open house going to happen when the draft elements are going to happen um all of that has to be scripted out and we will do that with you right
that's not I'm not going to say hey it can be your schedule but we need to develop it and it would be um based around municipal meetings you know so planning board meeting governing body meeting we we would we don't need much from the governing body here other than them say yes endorse the process and and
yeah your land use plan looks okay um but we we will center this around your public meeting schedule to the greatest extent we can um I I don't anticipate having to have any special meetings um but the committee meetings and when they're going to happen would have to thread through there and it may be that
we want to organize the committee meetings so that the committee chairs or committee people can report to the planning board on the internal when we're not meeting with the planning board so that's good to keep the updates and the information flowing back and forth maybe that's helpful um rather
know now uh than later if somebody's got an issue with something that the committee is doing that sits on the planning board as the deciders maybe I could talk a little bit about the process that we talked so my understanding is
uh if the person involved is a professional it can go without a bid and I believe you're a professional um I tried it there was there there was a official burough professional um there was a little bit of sticker shock with
the price eggs aren't 99 cents a dozen anymore kind of thing um and so then there was a discussion about um you know the alternative path would be to to go up for a bit formally and then I think there's a lot of rules about we're required to take the lowest bidder um
and so I don't know for sure what path i think we're still kind of talking about it so maybe a good thing would be to say you know Mr sullivan is acceptable to us or you know we think it would be an excellent choice or you know something
but he is he's our planner right so he is our This is what I don't this is this is I guess where I'm confused is like we we appointed a bur I'm sorry we appointed a planning board planner yes for purposes of having a planning an actual planning professional
professional serve the board so I would like I guess I don't understand why then we we then put out our signature sort of output to bid when we h we have a plan so a decision I don't think has been made yet but I think I think the view is
that the plan itself is a sort of separate it's like an extra or you know it's every decade um and I'm I'm trying to recollect from the the session which was like a month ago so um but that's
the that's sort of the vibe well I think the door is open because he could come back and say "My firm can't handle it right?" He could say "We can't handle your master plan right now maybe we we're underst staffed maybe we're overworked." So we would have to have the availability the option to go to
market and and find somebody to help us with it if he's not coming back and saying that's a limitation then certainly the door is open for us to say that's still our preference is to work with our appointed planner at this point for this board I would
make the recommendation to the governing body and let them do what they're going to do i think that's good yeah okay so we I motion yeah type motion that we uh recommend to the governing body that we hire our or our planning board planner
to uh engage on our master plan re-examination a second yes Mr yes mr pal yes mr r yes mr anderson yes mr
balon yes thanks sure i have a question for you sorry just just as it relates to some of the elements in the master plan specifically the business district which is a hot
topic in town and something that needs quite a bit of work so I I guess the assumption is that that's not a as we outlined it anyway a category in and of itself the assumption I think is that it falls as a subcategory in land use maybe
correct is that so is that is that how how we would see it and and and within there as a subcategory it can get the attention that it needs given some of the Absolutely it's one of the toughest nuts to crack in your land use world
yeah i think um it's tough it's a lot of old development um you're constrained by narrow or shallow lots there let's say you know it's and they're right up against residential districts residential neighborhoods so how do you
create a framework for redevelopment which makes it awesome pro promotes the economy we're not doing an economic plan but you know revitalization there would in theory and you know I always talk about the
capacity for change what's the capacity for change right what is the public's capacity for change and what are the incentives that would actually get businesses to actually go that route you know from because no one does anything yeah sure it's tough not to crack yeah
but yeah I mean look I think there's low I think we feel collectively and some of the people discovered that there's some low hanging fruit and some easy way to solve some of those things yeah maybe not easy but there are certainly ways to solve some so I think we just want to make sure that it's addressed
appropriately in the master plan as the guiding document so that when co-changes are necessary at at council level that it's guiding appropriately that's the whole purpose of the of the plan and the land use plan is the fundamental
foundation for your zone great thank you so committee set up the the burrow teams or the different burough staff that needs to be involved I guess an inventory of the facilities the age of the facilities and the different things that may need to be addressed um for
that and then we should we should come up with a I mean we started with a with a very like pretty good I mean six deliverables in 2024 that's how long we've been on our wheels we I I mean so what should
we I guess submit that to you like I mean send me send me your thoughts on the schedule yeah okay um but but yeah we'll just we'll we'll build it around there but we'll build this out in the process we'll share that we'll talk about it we'll adjust it um if there are
additional steps that you think you need in there you let let me know um or time um if there are diff additional um engagement mechanisms or anything like that that you need in there just let me know okay so it so are we I
mean we can do this outside of meetings correct i mean like how how does that work like because if I circulate something to everybody on the You can circulate it for their review but once you start having a back and forth conversation then it becomes an open
public issue yeah I I always recommend a committee of the master a committee of the planning board just so you don't have this issue that you can communicate actively at any time you want and then brief the planning board in full uh and get some feedback at your meeting time
that that's a effective way and that way you don't run into if the entire planning board is the committee then the only way you guys can communicate is when you have a an a public meeting and you be able to reply all what are the pros and cons of let's say we want to have an environmental commission or a
natural area person on the committee is that in your experience i think it's fantastic i mean that that's part of this thing we're talking about conservation recreation and I couldn't imagine not having somebody who's on the environmental leadership on that so that wouldn't
violate one or two other people would we normally include zoning as well some representative i think I think zoning um yes I think most most towns will include a zoning board member on one of those committees because they
bring to the table I mean maybe it's it's the land use because they're the ones who are seeing where the folks are pushing against the the regulations and asking for relief and I mean they they I'm sure they submit every year they submit their report here the variances
it was height it was F whatever it was and based on those they may have recommendations hey listen we've done 10 variances in this neighborhood for the same thing you know these people shouldn't have to pay thousands of dollars to come in and get a variance what do you think and pull that in there
coming back to these committees just wanted to take another step further beyond boards you know like BC or other or zoning or what have you general public just general people on these committees as well is that typically what is done it
can be it can be if there are folks who are interested and active and can maintain confidentiality right a lot of these things are confidential until you make them not confidential not that they're
attorney by privilege but you know they're raw for a period of time they're raw and they're unbaked until they are public drafts they are nothing and you don't want people going out there and seeing something and they say something to somebody and somebody says "I'm not going to let that happen." And then they
next thing you know you got 40 people coming in and say "Listen I heard you're doing this we don't want to do it." So you got to be careful that way um I would say it's just it's very it's so far it's in the last few years very common practice for our committees whether they're you know from other boards or or directly from the governing
body you know they're made up of the general public you know people that volunteer want to want to be involved that that that's that's fine these committees shouldn't be enormous though right like so let's be judicious about how they're put together you know what's a what's it an optimal oh I would say
like three to five people maybe okay i think I think that's a good range um because you want them giving good direction too you know we don't decide anything right you know we give you information so you all can make decisions so um but you don't want to cast the thousands you won't get
anything done so maybe do we want to take an action to formally reach out to all the other boards and commissions and ask for nominations or volunteers sorry we have five we're talking about five committees
so three to five on each committee is that But they can be the same person the same person could be on a couple committees or I mean that could be like 15 to 20 people that are Yeah i want you know I certainly want people from the green team the garden club the EC to have an
opportunity to join if they want to join okay um I'm happy to communicate that myself but you know obviously you've got a as the chair you got an opportunity to kind of invite people into the process which could be nice i think I think that if you already know people have people in mind and you should probably have
some discussions to talk about how the composition not just throw it out to the the chairs of the committees like think about the composition of them think about who might work well together in this because someone might be great on the environmental commission but not collaborating with other people who
aren't on the environmental commission to come to some decision so I mean think that's important too the composition yeah so I I think at for the next um for the next meeting we should have a suggested a suggested composition for
each of the boards or I'm sorry for each of the committees um and to the extent we can invite certain people to I mean if you have ideas of people or you're I mean so land use is Andrew housing is all of us
circulation is Anna utilities um are you Dave and Rich uh and then Sean you're conservation recreation and open space and so I would think then you you know who should be You know if you want to reach out to
those individuals that you feel would be and and gauge interest I'm fine with that with each person that's leading the committee do that on their own okay yeah i mean I'm fine with I mean you you guys got to pick people that you want to work
with or that you think will be you know useful in the in the process and remember like this is going to be time consuming and so people that have the wherewithal to be able to spend that time um and and come to the meetings I mean we're we're still having a little
bit of an attendance problem um and so we we need people that are going to you know regularly come to meetings can you repeat the five committees again so we have land use housing circulation utilities and then
conservation recreation and open space and then and Brian if you've got the packet the proposal it's on page two and then depending on the you know depending on the survey and what what comes back I mean there may be elements of the plan or other areas of
the plan that have that are going to require attention maybe not require committee but are going to have to you know are going to require the board to put some time in on if there are issues that have to be addressed so beyond the personnel if we're we kind
of started with the survey conversation at the beginning do do you typically have that committee sort of generate the the kind of the issues and and start to formulate like where do we need to be asking questions each of the committees would
but it's based on like known problems it's based on known problems and general questions about it you know and we can you know once we see what your issues are and the things you want to know then we can help you refine that and so it's relevant to input to the point and the
process to get to a point any like tools like automated tools you have to kind of like take take that in and like spit out questions [Music] um think we've used any AI generated
question software yet but um no it's it's really just looking at the questions and seeing um how it might relate how people might how the question the information you want how to ask the question and like there's different ways to ask questions for sure right so so we
try to do that some of the questions are going to be you know we try to minimize questions that require reading an answer we want the answer to be pre-populated and people are either pulling down you know ranking things or um choosing
things um we try to make it as that makes it easier to get the results in and to process them um but we usually will have I would think for each of the sectors we would probably have like one
um you know open question right where people can say something and and say like here's the things we want and actually you know we can we can also review that and we can see how many times somebody mentioned it um and and that starts to give us more information about like this is something that's
important to lots of people or this is something that one person said right but yet we we always have like at least a couple open questions on a survey [Music] but processing if you had 50 open questions processing 50 open questions
isn't there doesn't sound like the right yeah we should know enough about the what we want to know from a survey to be able to avoid that yeah no I'm just thinking like you you brought up the business district and it's you know sometimes you can pose a question a certain way and everyone's like yeah of
course I want that but it's like if you can put it in context of u but how do you prioritize it you know you want a business district but do you want all these other things that go along with it people are like why you don't like all those things that go which I think was in the last survey it
was like how do you prioritize it from one to five if I remember correctly and they you know they prioritize all these different elements within there right yeah and and and and as we get as we talk if the survey gets I mean if you
want a complex survey you know we'll have to talk about that from a standpoint of the cost we should keep it simple stupid i mean because otherwise we're going to confuse everyone we get too much in the weeds they're not there it's But if you say to somebody listen I'd love to have the business district
more vitalized more economic development and they say everybody says "Yeah and then you say okay we're going to put in drive-thru restaurants all the way down right?" Yeah I see what people say well most people say Yeah i'm curious are we clear on how to
articulate this to the to to the governing body yeah i mean I I certainly can articulate what we've talked about i don't know if you're going to have is there any memo or anything i can write something yeah I think whatever our recommendation is and I would I would
also papering uh I would also I told this but since so much time has elapsed I mean a decision would be something we would want quickly I think from governing body you know not like let's discuss it over a couple meetings and get a you know I just want
to see it forward um any comments in the public not yet okay where do you one day is anybody on there anyone up there nobody's on all right does anybody have anything else so So for next week we'll have
committee suggested committee yeah and if people want to um if those individuals would like to come to the meeting that's fine as well we're going to have an agenda i mean we're going to have items that need to be uh we're going to have new business next next
meeting so we'll have the the road um the road issue that needs to be discussed um and commented on for uh for the governing body and then we're going to have the co-ar application so we will have other other items on the on the agenda so I mean we should plan for it
to be a and and I guess we'll also I guess put together a schedule or I mean I have I can revisit the schedule that I put together last year and circulate it to everybody for comment
and sounds like Yeah we can push that off to you we can we can push that to you between now and the May 20th meeting and then get comments back from you before our May 20th meeting so I can go over it if
everybody can be a useful um so we'll have the committees formed by May 20th we'll have a draft timeline with comments from the planner um and then I think if anybody needs or
if anybody wants to I I guess do we need to get into the actual document itself before the next meeting i guess my question was coming back if the survey is relatively early in the process it's kind of what it sounds like you know not
knowing what the plan is yet but knowing kind of what we're working backwards from next August at what point do we need to be do you have a an idea like when it needs to be released in the coming months it depends on how Yes it's in a couple months and
it's um it really is going to require the committees to digest you know what the issues are look at the previous master plan and and re-examination report and use that as a as as information to help
guide what the questions you want and I would try to encourage uh you know if each committee if you have five committees you know we're going to have demographic questions I think they're probably like maybe eight to 10 of those um you
know there may be folks who answer the survey who may not be residents right so there's going to be a box to check whether you live here or not those kind of things so there's a chunk up front in the demographics but you know if you're thinking about you know five to seven
questions per sector right that's probably a good place to start um and that um if you need to add something you know then you've got a little room um you know you want somebody to be able
to do like 15 minutes to 20 minutes max so by June would we want the survey ready to go i I'm just I'm thinking as if I'm wearing the hat of a committee lead what am I working against i mean I would think we would want a draft survey
by the June meeting well or we would want I mean not that I mean we would want to get to you I think our questions our questions what we feel the questions are yeah there's some homework to do on on the committee side
and then the advisory you know the master plan advisory committee which is the top dog and the other planning board master plan advisory committee and then those other committees um so um yeah if you've done done your homework and you say "Yes here's here's the things we want to know we'll look at the questions
we'll figure out how to ask them or or if we need to maybe they're fine." um and look at how we're going to organize the survey into whether it's multiple voice whether it's you know you know five scale things um what however that
goes um but yeah if you yeah based on after you've done your homework and you have a chance to review it all together then yes um we'll look at that draft and if that's going to be by June that's by June um once we decide to build a survey it's going to go quickly once we have
all that information so we could theoretically have a survey day before the July meeting that we can then start to get out into the public well yeah well there's you know there's before you even get out in the public there's testing you got to do the testing to make sure it works you got to make sure
it works on iPhones you got to make sure Android phones you got to make sure it works on computers um so there's there's a there's periods of getting that right um but that doesn't mean that you know if I were to do the time schedule for
you a lot of things overlap right that survey being built is not stopping anything else it's not a linear time frame like there are you know we'll be looking at all the the data right we'll be pulling together all the spatial data on the town we'll be pulling together um
any other information on town we'll be you know bothering Rich to give us all of his information anybody else so while we're doing that analysis that survey can be built um because it's really an overall vision
visioning type thing i call it a vision survey but it's just a very high level survey well and I'm just thinking like from a calendar thinking about calendar right people in the summer are kind of checked out you know is that a great time to drop a survey and expect a lot of response we've got requirements fair
in August is that a great tool to like great opportunity rally around use that as a pivot point we've got September and start of school you know like there's just there's a natural cycle that we can be aligned with or we can try to operate
outside of and so if we can get our our stuff aligned for the early summer I just feel like that might give us some flexibility to either put it out in the summer when you should have a booth at the fireworks i was going to say that you should have a booth or a table yeah absolutely no
question and you'd have QR codes there for the survey people go to the QR code they pop it in there they could do it right there before they have too much fun at the fair and um that's a great kickoff point um it's hit or miss in the summertime with a survey
um we've used you know those real estate signs we've used those and we put them out and just put them all over town and with their big yellow they're not pretty right but people all of a sudden are seeing like the little logo the branding for the for the master plan and then
this and then that and then they they're like "Oh tell you tell us what you want." That's what it says i I think Sean mentioned the burough buzz earlier i think I don't think it's too soon to just send a note out via the burough buzz saying that the planning board is going to be attacking the master plan
you know contact us if you have any you know initials yeah maybe we mention the elements and and uh add an email address or something like that although I don't invite all the chatter early or maybe I think it's I like to I like the early
but I also like you know the branding I think is going to be really helpful kind of come up with like a simple logo you know whatever it is then it just becomes something that's identifiable whether we choose to do lawn signs or posters with QR codes even up in in the um here in
Burough Hall just having something in the in the hallway volunteer from the with the surveys too i mean um do we do we need to do does it need to be translated or not are we good with
English interesting yeah i don't know i would suspect most are everyone is English but I don't say every um but um if if for instance you had a a neighborhood that was mostly bilingual
or whether it was Chinese or Spanish or something um you could actually go into the neighborhood with somebody you know we have people who speak Spanish in my office they could actually facilitate you know doing the the survey we haven't builtin translation into the documents you know um most folks can use like
Google Translate or something like that to get that done it's not perfect um but also on popups like let's say you're at the fair and the survey is active right or you're at something else um we've done it where somebody has an iPad and you stand there and they have the survey
thing and somebody's not comfortable and you say "Okay you want to do the survey right here?" And you get them to fill it out it's and and you've done it where you actually reach out into the community to go door todoor with that iPad kind of no no it's a popup it's like you know you've got a little table and you're sitting outside the library
or something and folks are walking by i'm just giving you examples of the the types of more granular outreach you can do we keep track of the same person does more than one survey that do people stuff the ballot box yes yes we can see
um we can see whether or not um I forget the techn not very technological but um we can see uh if there have been multiple surveys from the same right so so that can happen long
drive and so and so that's two people from the same household yeah right right I mean generally if if If that's the way it goes right if it's the same IP address you're going to have some of that in there the only way to not do
that is everybody gets their own individual code and you send it to and that's exactly shut down so so you're going to have to tolerate some level of maybe somebody stuck the ballot box or something like that but if it's anomalous and we're seeing it in
the results we can pick it up good right great and just so I'm clear for the May meeting you're looking for suggestions on the members of all the members of each of the committees we're not doing any outreach until we if you want to do
if you want to do outreach and engage people you don't want to discuss it here as a board first and then do outreach um I mean I think it probably it probably makes sense if you have names in mind because what if their position is no way I don't have time for that to to discuss
it if they're at least willing to consider it then you know you can put them on the Yeah i I think if you want to have a discussion with somebody and say "Look we formed these committees um for the for the master plan re-examination we need input from
different constituents um I'd like you to you know consider doing it you you know you could come to the next meeting and hear what it's all about I think that's all fine like I I don't I don't have any problem with that i think that's a good thing actually let
make sure they know it's a 12-month tour duty right and it's it's going to be a 12-month process and there's going to be you know multiple meetings and um and document review and document review yeah because at the end of this those committees are going to be charged with
here's the land use plan element that was sort you know and and and when we do that we'll be down here we'll have it on a screen I'll be marking up maps we'll be doing things and until those committees say yes we're good with this
this should be put in the draft and the master plan committee says yes this is put in the draft and ultimately the master plan committee recommends to the planning board the adoption of this document yeah you know it's not Sullivan doesn't walk in here and say here here's the master plan and people say what was he right it's the planning board is the
steward of this thing and and the master plan committee is the steward of the process and the master plan and there's a recommendation and advocacy for the adoption of it do you have a standard answer for if people ask how many hours you know will this take per month or over the year is there is there a rough
estimate or no but but I mean if you look at our if you look at our look at our the technical meetings there's 10 meetings so like we're assuming that there's going to be 10 of those meetings um well that's for that's two per that's
two part for you guys but you guys can meet right you know much more yeah much more than so I don't I don't to answer your question I don't it really is it's I think the way I've seen it a monthly cadence isn't
bad to try to keep it the flow going and then you know if you've got a down month like in August you've got a down month you've got a back I think that's the expectation I would set depending what I'm I'm going to talk to monthto month but but but once but it's it's it's not
just having recurring meetings like there will be a focus point in time where we're going to meet we're going to meet with you and and these committees and we're going to say "Listen here's the issues we need decisions about this we're going to go back into our office
and we're going to you know adjust things and come back and then we're going to get it to you again and we're going to give it to you again." It's basically like doing draft elements like this but there's not a lot of you're not going to need a lot of meetings to just churn this thing you're going to be fa you're going to be handed information to
make decisions on and as long hopefully that doesn't take a long time you know you know two to three months of that but generally if we're moving I mean we would set up meetings so that we're back to back to back and we're sitting here
and we're okay you know this committee's out this committee's in here we go and we've done I've done processes in two months and we've had three committee meetings with five committees and we've gotten that done and it's and and it and it's fresh so
you don't forget about it right so you remember the issues you're talking about you remember this and you remember what we talked about and so it's back and forth for that period but it's not like you're just meeting every month to say "Hey what should we it should be very focused and that's the job of us to to
make sure that schedule reflects that period as long as you're comfortable with it whatever period you're comfortable with but we're going to be pushing you to really have a compressed period of thoughtfulness decision making." Gotcha
make sense any anybody have anything else all right I'll move to close so okay close we can I was going to close the meeting but we can road um that's the property bought next to the dock and the
governing body wants the planning board's opinion on it there's a there's a sheet of paper a couple sheets of paper um and your next meeting is the 20th they wanted it by Google wanted it 15th um but I just texted him and the
20th will be okay so take some time and look at that get one shot it's all Yeah we're going to have it we're going to have them we're going to discuss it at the meeting so um so we'll So Sheila you'll I can distribute it in advance yeah it's 22 pages yeah you'll distribute everything you'll distribute
it we'll talk about it at the meeting and so there's on the agenda three uh real so there's co-ar this and is there something else next meeting no okay good so big picture we're going to tear that house down and
what's it going to be yeah splash park or is it joking or uh you know benches and and greenery do a lot of people use um the Normandy like the end you know I don't live on that
street so I don't know more people would use because that you know church plays at every Wednesday or whatever it is there that that's definitely going to get you so I don't want to get I don't have to go in the weeds here but like I read through the
document there's no recommendations so the committee kind of put together a framework of a timeline and trying to get back information so are we meant to react to something or are we meant to just kind of generate our own opinions as the planning board
yeah good question let me follow up on that let me ask Oh that's true what is exactly sorry the doctor it came through the EC as well and so it's like it's she's there's like 20 people there just follow the rules that
they know at the space you know and like I don't know something yeah totally there's three bullet points for the plan for I can read them if you want yeah
that would be great ensures the conceptual plan aligns with Fair Haven's master plan and active transportation plan evaluates zoning considerations and how the proposed park integrates with existing municipal land use policies provides oversight to ensure that the
conceptual plan remains feasible and consistent with the broader community development strategies so that it sounds like we will react to a plan um that's my sense but the conceptual plan the conceptual plan of a passive part yes essentially
yeah doesn't doesn't fit in this great uh move to close second all right thanks everyone i ain't going to see it