Good evening everyone. Uh this is a regular meeting of the fair a planning board. Adequate notice of this meeting has been given pursuant to the provisions of the open public meetings act. At the time of the board reorganization in January of this year, the board adopted its regular meeting
schedule for the year. Notice of the schedule was sent to and published in the Asbury Park Press on January 31st, 2025 and the Two River Times on January 23rd, 2025. That notice was also posted on the Bolton board in Burough Hall and has remained continuously posted there
as required by the statute. A copy of the notice is and has been available to the public and is on file in the office of the burough clerk. A copy of the notice has also been sent to members of the public as have requested such information in accordance with the statute. Adequate notice having been
given, the board secretary is directed to include the statement in the minutes of this meeting. And so, um, before we do the roll call, Sheila, we're going to swear in Patrick as our new member before we do the roll call. Then we'll
have salut right hand. Can you do it for me? >> I state your name. >> Patrick Randetti. >> Do you solemnly swear that I will support the Constitution of the United States? Do solemnly swear that I will support the Constitution of the United States >> and the Constitution of the State of New
Jersey >> and the Constitution of the State of New Jersey. >> That I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same. >> That I will bear truth, faith, and allegiance to the same. >> And to the governments established in the United States and in this state under the authority of the people. >> And to the governments established in the United States and in this state under the authority of the people. and
that I will faithfully and partially and justly perform And that I will faithfully and partially and justly perform >> the duties of Burough Fair Haven Planning Board member according to the best of my abilities. >> the duties of the Fair Haven Planning Board member according to the best of my abilities. >> Welcome aboard.
>> It's official. Then I quietly whisper it. We will yell to talk about it. >> It's going to be so um why don't we proceed uh with the roll call. >> Um Mr. Bush
>> here, >> Mr. Olsen. >> Mr. Newell >> here. >> Mr. Ho >> here. >> Mr. B >> here. >> Mr. Na. >> Mr. Anderson >> here. >> Mrs. Anthony. >> She's here.
>> She's here. Here. So sorry, >> Mr. Grani >> here. >> Great. Uh, so let's take a pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the
republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Uh so before we get started um with new business, let's just take care of the uh the regular the the meeting minutes of
people from last uh from last time >> yes last meeting. Yeah. >> Uh, Mr. >> I wasn't here. >> Yeah. >> Uh, Mr. >> Yes. >> Mr.
>> Yes. >> Mr. Anderson. >> Yes. >> Mrs. Anthony. Hey, so um we're going to open the meeting tonight uh with uh the Fair Haven Yoga LLC 772 River Road uh
application. Um the the applicant is is seeking an amendment to the prior site plan approval um for the subject of the fitness studio to open for classes at 5:00 a.m. And so we're going to hear that um we're going to hear that
application this evening. And so I want to um just go over a couple things in terms of you know what our uh jurisdiction is and and sort of how this falls uh into into our um into our lab
um for >> review. Yes, this is a this is an amendment to a site plan. So because it's a site plan and an amendment to it, um the applicant received site plan relief some time ago. They're coming to seek an amendment to
that extensively to um be relieved of one of the conditions, one of the standing conditions in our zoning section. Okay? It's not in our design section. This is in our zoning section. So this requires if you're going to grant relief either C1 or C2 variance
depending on how the applicant proceeds. The applicant this evening is seeking relief from section 30-7.30 30 hours of operation which states in relevant part no business office or commercial activity which invites or
permits customer or public use visitation or occupancy shall operate between the hours of 11:00 p.m. and 6:00 a.m. Except one those businesses such as establishments licensed to serve alcohol and beverages closed par which have
their hours regulated by government law regulational ordinance or two in accordance with a specific site plan approval by the municipal agency. I don't anticipate that you're going to be hearing that what I that this is a what I would characterize as a highly regulated industry. So that I think
you're going probably going to be hearing information where they seek as it says in the ordinance uh relief from this in accordance with the specific site plan approval by municipal agency. In short, we're the municipal agency that has the ability to grant them that
relief provided they give you sufficient proofs under their variance relief. I I don't anticipate although I don't speak for the applicant um that you're going to be hearing about C1 you know hardship variance I think you're going to be hearing in order to
testimony of the C2 the flexible se where and I'll articulate this a little bit clearer basically that the the benefits or the the deviations from the organism in this instance to be operating at a different time um but
they those they substantially outweigh pay you know the burden of the ordinance if you will and it's not for the benefit of the applicant themselves but for the benefit of the community what I like to say sometimes in that in that instance is if mayor and council were originally
designing the standards would they have seen this as something that should be starting I think you're going to hear earlier than than the restraint and I'll get into some of the proofs and I'm sure the applicant is going to remind you of those proofs but in addition to those proofs
Let me briefly state the applicant is also and we'll probably take care of this preliminarily a number of waivers and as you can imagine waivers are from some of the site plan or the checklist waivers as opposed to design waivers.
The checklist waivers you have because as you probably already discerned there's really no need to submit an environmental impact statement relief that you're seeking is to start earlier in the day. So I we will read those into the record.
>> There's also no site modifications. >> Yeah, there is not down wall >> from what has been have. >> There's no change to the physical structure. There's no change to parking. There's no change to any other aspect of
the the physical location. This is solely for um change in time. So they come before us. We have that jurisdiction because it's site plan. It is a C variance because
it's one of our zoning standards and we will articulate those standards as we go along. The waiverss and I'll read those in. Well, I'll tell you what. Let me start before we start those. >> Yeah. Right. >> Want to bring the applicant forward. You'd be to come forward and have as
you're setting up have any witness that you that's going to testify you think will testify have something to say might have something to say. I'm going to have you all I'm going to swear you all in and moss you're going to have something to say. Even if you're going to say
something from the audience or however we'll just swear everybody in >> these three will be called as witnesses in basically in support of the application. >> Okay. And Rich, I also ask you to stand. >> You saw me swear the testimony you give before the board will be the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth.
>> The answer to that question should be yes. >> Yes. Okay. I'm going to ask you to do the following before you start testifying. Don't have a transcriber here. State your name for the record, spelling your last name. That way, if we do need to make a transcript in the
future, the transcribing will know who's speaking and be able to follow along. Everybody can sit down right now. And if I I can council, I'd like to >> Liz, if you could just >> I'd like to mark some exhibits that I have and I see you have some additional
exhibits. I would like to mark as A1 the development application form and the checklist as one document. That would be A1. A2 would be four copies or well a single
copy of a violation notice to the applicant from the bureau's zoning and code enforcement officer. That'll be day two. That's June 26.5. Uh copies of an easement agreement dated April 30th, 209
as it pertains to subject property. Again, that's A3. A4 is the planning board resolution. um memorialized August uh 9th of 2016. A5 will be the minor site plan revised
to 31414 principally for resolution compliance. That was four sheets. A6 will be surveyed but not sealed by Charles Sumante. Looks like it is dated
July 10, 2025. ED one will be the engineers completeness review of July 24, 2025. PB2 is going to be the engineers review
of the application itself 8:14, 2025. You have any additional documents you'd like to mark? We can put those in unless you want to do that as we go along. >> We could just mark this this one exhibit which I have blown up here and Miss Olsson was kind enough to um she printed
them out. So all that is is just a Google Earth of the kind of showing the surrounding area and and the date of attribution according to Google Earth was it was September uh 4th of 22. So it's not it's not a current photo,
but it's fair. >> Yeah. Can you represent that? That there's no additional structures or disacresent. >> I can represent that. Yes. >> So we'll mark that as A7. You could do that for me. Council A7. >> Um certainly pass hand those around to
Rich. You can pass those up to the day. We'll mark that down. That'll be A7 Google Earth 9422. Any other exhibits >> for now? No. I might have more but I'll see how we go along in terms of marketing. So I'll hand this to see if
we can get these out of the way. I don't think these are there are a number of waiverss that the applicant is also seeking. These are the checklist waivers. These are not design waivers. Um waivers in this instance are
and which correct me if I'm wrong. I think I got this right. Um checklist item 11 which is the uh Mammoth County Health Department application. The applicant receiving a waiver from that. >> Item 12 will serve letters asking for a
waiver. >> Yeah. >> 13 environmental impact assessment. Uh 14 freshwater wetlands interpretation. 15. List of all federal, state, regional and or municipal approval permits required. Um 25. Storm water management
plans. 26 asbuilt surveys. Uh 34 34 title and block uh denoting type of application tax map sheet county municipality blocking lot street location. 37 schedule of required zoning
requirements. Uh 38 approval signature block for board chairman secretary and burough engineer. 41 date of current property survey. 52 location of streams, flood planes, wetlands within 200 feet
of the project. 54 site identification signs um traffic color control signs identification signs. Um 55 existing proposed site triangles. 65 a lighting plan. Um the applicant is asking
waiverss for those. Uh I ask our engineer Rich Cardell spell your name for the purpose of the record. >> Yes. However, checking live file. We're missing a page. >> Am I missing a page? Did I miss
something? >> We're missing um it goes from use the page number. >> I'm missing I'm missing page probably item six. Item 17 through 22. 17 to 22 and 27.
>> Oh, right. So, you're missing you're missing 5 through 10. >> Let me read those to the Oh, you don't need Do you have those? I'm >> Okay. Yeah.
I got you. here. We were trying to be a musician. >> Okay. No, >> 17 through 22 and then 27 to >> 103.
>> Asking for a waiver on item 11 12 13 asking for a waiver from producing 20 prints prepared by a New Jersey licensed professional engineer. 18 digital copy
uh of the plan balance of them are not applicable. 27 photographs of the subject property. Actually, you don't need a a waiver of that. You're dividing those. So, skip that. 28, excuse me. 29, list of requested design waivers or exceptions.
We really know what those are at this point. Um 30 map scale not less than 1 in is to 100 ft. 31 PAP 32 site or subdivision name 33
the name signature license number of the professionals responsible for preparing this manual. See 43 meets and bounds description showing dimensions of all tangents radi angles.
46 size location of any existing proposed structures with all setbacks. 47. Site location of existing structures. 59. Solid waste management recycling plan. 60. Site layout of all roadways.
61. Rating and utility plan. 62. Profiles of existing proposed roadways. 63. Landscaping Plan 64, soil erosion mention 65. May I ask uh the engineer if
you have an opinion concerning the ability to wave those checklist items? >> Uh yes. In my review letter, I recommended the board wave those items. >> Accepting the engineer's recommendation, may I ask for a motion to approve the
waiverss as I read into the record? That's a I'll a motion to approve those wages. >> Okay. I'll second. >> Mrs. >> Yes. >> Mr. New? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Mr. B?
>> Yes. >> Mr. Anderson? >> Yes. >> Mr. Mr. >> Yes. >> Hey, you're halfway on your way. You got your wa. >> Thank you. >> Um, >> thank you. >> We've marked the exhibits. We've shown the witnesses. Let me get out of your
way. >> Yeah, thank you. >> Good evening board members, board professionals. U Daniel O'Harn with the firm of Burns O'Harn and Yugle. Uh we're located in Redbank on behalf of the applicant Fair Haven Yoga doing business
as PO your uh the board attorney, Mr. Kovatz, did an excellent job um describing the nature of the relief that we're seeking here this evening from the board. So I won't I won't rehash that. um if you saved me a little bit of time. Just a little bit of background from the
board is as Mr. Kovat alluded to, this is a we're seeking technically an amendment to a prior site plan from 2016. Um the applicant was the owner of the property which is 772 River Road um LLC.
Um at the time they attained approvals to uh allow the operation. It was a change of use but to allow an operation of a basically a yoga studio and I think it was also a bar bar studio bar another
type of fitness uh program at the time in 2016 and the name of the business that was going to be operating there was PO. Um in 2016 my client um the current PO um did not own or operate the
business. um Miss Sheridan who's the uh principal owner of PO um she acquired the business um in or about I think it was probably like around May of 2019 according to some of the the documents I saw. Um I mean when she acquired the
business the intent was kind of continue to operate it you know in the same way yoga studio fitness studio uh you know the building consists of two floors uh for workout and exercise phase space. The first floor um currently it has
Pilates machines. So it's for Pilates classes. The second floor is more of an open studio for yoga and other type of sculpting type of classes. um the the class that is the subject of this application that that we're
seeking, the 5 a.m. class, it was not conducted in 2019. It was not a class that was offered. The class was offered several years later uh as a result of interest from you know various um people
members or interested members uh who want to get up early in the morning and get their workouts in. teachers, commuters, parents with young kids. You know, sometimes older folks like to I'm I'm not an older folk. I get up early in the morning and I go to I go to the gym.
I like to get up and get early and go to get get it out of the way before the day gets in the way. Um and and you know indeed it is common for you know most if anybody's experienced with health clubs and those type of businesses often do open up earlier than your typical
business because people for those reasons like to get in and out early. I mean I know for example I go to a gym and it it it's open early in the morning and there's the people the commuter crew. So really in order for those type of businesses to be able to accommodate
um their customers and their members um I don't want to say it's essential but it is an important attribute of such a business to be able to offer the early start time um and uh again it provides a
benefit um you know to those folks who who like to get up early and and that's the only time they can get get into the gym. Now, I just for the board's edification, at the time my client started doing the 5:00 classes, she was
not aware that the burrow had this 6:00 a.m. uh ordinance requirement. Um I mean, had she known, she would have benefited from the board previously. So, um, and and and maybe that's a function of the type of business she she uh
operates that, um, it's my understanding that there may be some other businesses in town, similar, you know, fitness type of facilities that may have earlier opening. So, but she she didn't, um, understand, and I'll have her obviously put that on the record, that, you know, this wasn't an intentional violation of
the burrow's ordinance. She thought she was allowed to operate at 5:00 a.m. Um, I think as Mr. Kovatz alluded to in June of this year. Um my client received a notice of violation from the burough zoning officer directing her to cease the 5 a.m. class um until the approval
was obtained. Um that's when I was retained. Uh and that's you know now we started the process of submitting this application. Um, and I also just want to, you know, get out there that I think that the the uh the uh the board will probably hear
from some public members tonight. You know, there have been noise complaints um at this um uh at this location. Um, I did in fact submit an OPER request uh to the to the police department to to get copies of those noise complaints. And
there have been complaints filed and they have been investigated by the police department. Um, uh, and it looked like from the records I had, the first one was back in um, June of 2024. Um, and the most recent record I had was
July 4th, 2025. That that was the time I had submitted it. So, um, it does appear from those records, um, and and I'll let my clients speak to that more, that the complaints appear, most of the the times when the complaints were pulled in was
between 6:00 and 7:00 a.m. So, it seems that the problem is is at least the noise issue potentially is is emanating from 6 a.m. class and not the 5 a.m. class. I'm not saying that, you know, I'm just I'm just saying that's based on
what I've read on in in the uh uh police records. Um and uh but but any event, my client understands she needs to, you know, the the noise complaints um uh are an issue and she has taken steps and
will continue to take steps to mitigate those complaints. Um I do want to talk Mr. Um uh um Kovat talked about you know the C1 hardship variance is C2 this is I don't believe this is a C1 hardship variance it's a C2 flexible variance um
but I will point out um in terms of the the structure this is an older building um so it's in terms of trying to mitigate the noise it it probably is a little bit more difficult I mean I just I'm using my I apologize I'm using my example I go to a gym in the morning and
you walk in the front door and there's no windows. Everything's sealed. It's, you know, typical commercial building with not a lot of windows. This building, because it's a, you know, an old uh, you know, kind of historic almost home, you know, residential home that was converted perhaps into a uh,
commercial building, it has a lot of windows. I mean, upstairs, I think has eight eight total windows and they're big windows. Um, um, you know, the downstairs has windows um, also. So in terms of you know the the mitigating you
know the sound issues and and and it you know it is a fitness studio and they do you know periodic some of the classes require require but they they utilize music. So I just want to make that point. We're not saying we're not asking for a hardship variance but this building which has been approved for
this use is you know it's got a little bit of a difficult building to try to mitigate the noise. I think as the board is probably familiar it I have the the exhibit here. I mean it sits right on River Road. The windows in the front face right out to River Road. I mean you
can see here this is this is the building and then you know it the windows are right there and then there's windows on this side and windows on this side. This is the back of the building where the um you know the membersh enter the building. These little green lines the only reason I did them was just to
kind of show that's like 200 feet approximately you know just to kind of get a flavor of where you know this the surrounding um area. So, the building is such that it's, you know, the windows are right there. They're right, you know, kind of right in in the heart of the downtown. But, as I said, my client
is working with her instructors to try to um eliminate or mitigate the noise issues, including keeping the windows closed. Now, sometimes in in the the warmer months, you know, that creates a little bit of a problem, but they're keeping the windows closed. Um, turning
the music down. Some of the you guys may some of the board members, you may see like see these classes, the instructors wear little microphones, right, to amplify what they're saying. In those classes where in the morning where there there's been been these complaints about the noise,
tell the instructors not to use the microphone. My client has also bought two. >> What? I >> Oh, no. It's fine. I just kind of wanted to give a little board. >> Yeah. I mean, it's it's an opening. I don't want to I don't want to But I think you're you're getting to an area
where it's testimony. >> No, that's fine. That's fine. I just wanted to give the board a little kind of history, but that that's fine. We we can um um we can turn to the to my client's testimony. >> I think she can put under oath all those things that you're saying and we can
make those additions if they You need to do anything. You don't need to do anything. You need Can you put your uh name on the record and your address? >> Yes. Liz Sheridan. Okay. Um 50 Valentine Street Beach, New Jersey.
>> Um and Miss Sheridan, you're the owner of the applicant Fair Haven Yoga Doing Businesses Poe. >> Correct. >> Okay. Uh when did you become the owner of PO? >> May 2019. >> Okay. And you acquired it from the prior owner of PO.
>> Yes. Okay. And did you work for PO prior to acquiring it? Were you instructor? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> So you were familiar with the business and the building and you know and how it was utilized. Is that correct? >> Um just make sure you when I ask you
just try to say >> yes or no. >> Yeah. We can't pick up for a nod. >> Use your outside voice also that that doesn't amplify anything. Yeah, >> we're here to hear >> the outside. Use your gym voice like you
didn't have any restrictions. >> And um Po is the t is a tenant at the property at 7072 River, right? >> Yes. >> And and who was the landlord? >> Mike. >> And you have a lease obviously with Mr. Escola's company. Yeah. Okay.
>> Um have you made any changes to the business since you acquired it? Yes, it was originally when I bought um over the business there was it was being subleasased downstairs interior design store and then they weren't doing so
well so they left we took over and added Pilates and in the past three years we've been booming and getting extremely popular very busy and we have a lot of school teachers a lot of parents and so we added the 5 a.m. um
just because people needed it and we've been doing the 5 a.m. for about two years. >> Just some get to the fian but just to just describe I I explained a little bit to the board but as Mr. Kovat said I can't testify just the kind of the
layout current layout of the building and how you utilize it for your business. So downstairs is the Pilates machines, eight beds, one instructor, and there's no windows open ever down there. Um, and it's the same type of music up and
down. Uh, except for yoga. When yoga's upstairs, it's obviously different music than the sculpting class called Firebeat. And that's probably our most popular class. Um, and we we're offering that at 5 a.m., too. 6 a.m. 7 a.m. up until
7 p.m. every class full um weight lists and just with 5 a.m. was a special class. It was a certain community community, you know, like those group of women, it's the only time they can work out and
losing that is is huge. I mean I've lost a lot of me a lot of members I've lost because of that. >> So just a little bit back on on the background the u and what are the the class size the approximate class sizes
of the at the the 5 a.m. class >> around 25. >> Um how many instructors do you have? >> Almost 20. >> And for each class how many instructors? Is it one instructor per class? >> Yes. Um
so can we focus on so Doug like if it's a C2 variance right which is what you call the flexible variance the standard of group or the the sort of standard of judgment that we have to that we have to
evaluate is whether that variance is of benefit to this community at large. Is that correct? >> That that's part of it. Let me let me read >> because we need to hear testimony in that regard in order to evaluate the
application fairly. So all of the information that you're giving us is certainly great background information. I have some questions about sort of what you know, you bought the business in 2019. Um I I guess didn't know of an ordinance or didn't know of this
ordinance. Um and so I want to sort of go over that timeline. Um but but just in terms of the the standard that has to be met or the you know the evidence that we need to hear
in order to make a judgment that's that's what we need to get to. I I can certainly give you those standards, but I I do caution the chair. The aptitude should be able to present >> sure maybe how it benefits the community
because the the C2 variance basically the court has described it as not a variance because of the physical limitations of the land. The C1 is physical limitations of the land. You've got property that's non-conforming
because down by a river to the back. You don't have no property. You know, you've got existing structures. It's not a hardship variance. C2 variance, the Supreme Court when they were describing it said definition, no C2 variance should be granted merely because the
purpose of the owner will be advanced. The grant of approval must actually benefit the community in that it represents a better zoning alternative for the property. A better zoning alternative for the property. The focus
of the C2 case then will not be on the characteristics of the land that in light of current zoning requirements create a hardship on the owner uh and warranty relaxing of the standards but on the characteristics of the land that present an opportunity for improved
zoning and planning that will benefit the community. um you know and that those benefits substantially outweigh any detriment. Not a little bit, substantially outweigh any detriment. So, you're going to have
to you in a sense have to place yourself in a position of being a council member and saying, "Okay, why do we have this restriction from, you know, 11:00 p.m. to go to the record 11:00 p.m. to 6:00
a.m. We don't want you inviting people onto the property." That's not to mean that, and this doesn't address, and I won't get too far into it because I don't want to get into council's arguments, you know, when you have a loading, we have unloading, those kinds of things. It's not inviting people on
premise, right? So you're going to have some commercial operations in the morning, but this is really focused on at least the language of this ordinance is invites or permits customers or public use, visitation or occupancy
shall operate shall not operate between the hours. No business or commercial activity which invites or permits customers or public use, visitation, or occupancy shall operate between the hours of 11 p.m. and
6:00 a.m. except and I think we agree that only only if the municipal agency allows it. You're not claiming that you're a highly regulated industry. Correct. >> That's correct. So you you come here for that leaf and it's it's while the building I guess is important on on
those kinds of things, you've got to say to yourself, well, is this a different place that for reasons that the may council has anticipated it would be a better zoning alternative to let this property begin in this instance, I think
the is asking for 5 a.m. We haven't really locked that in, but I believe that's >> that's correct. and Rich, we we all agree that there's no other like this doesn't fall under C1 there. There's this is a C2 variance discussion, correct? Based on your review of the
application. >> Well, I reviewed it as the engineer, but from a planning perspective. Yes. >> Thank you. apppropo of what what your board has been saying. Can you kind of describe how you know the benefits that you feel
and that you in terms of feedback from your customer the benefits that your business particularly and you could speak to health health businesses in general provide to the community and to your members. Um I mean
PO has become a place it's not just to work out but I think people find it more of like a community and they hang out for a little bit after class or they you know they made new friends a place they can um especially after co happened you know
it was a place that was just booming and they could feel better about themselves and provide better for whether they're a parent friend um a business owner I think we've also brought local business to surrounding businesses um with all
our clients and that's a huge positive >> and there's obviously the health benefits correct I mean you're you're you're providing health benefits are there in your experience does the your type of of classes do they provide mental health benefits also to
individuals? Yes, huge. Especially with the infrared heat um upstairs in the sculpting classes in the yoga studio, yoga classes. >> And maybe just speak to the board. You started to talk about it, but you know,
why you know why the 5 a.m. class is important to the to your members, but also why it's important to the community at large to be able for a business like yours to be able to offer the 5 a.m. class. I think
our classes upstairs are unique and there's I mean there's gyms around that are open 5 a.m. lifetimes such you know places like that they don't offer the classes that we do and that infre the heated class and the teachers and you
know that type of workout is not really found elsewhere and I think that's huge especially at 5 a.m. And the classes that are similar in say Seambrite, Middletown, they don't have 5 a.m. And there's like cycling or 5 a.m.,
but they we just have this special these these women that come are just they love the 5 a.m. and they need it and without it they can't come and they either cancel the membership or go elsewhere.
>> I mean, have you had members cancel their membership? >> Yes. >> Okay. How many members have canceled since you stopped off from the 5 a.m. class? >> Around 10, 10, 11, 12. >> And have they told you the reason why they stopped? Is that because they
>> they can't either they can't make a ferry? um they can't get to work on time. They have a long commute uh either or their husband or their partner has to go to work. So they they have no they have no chance to any other times. Um
>> I ask a question some of the other businesses in the area whether it's Fair Haven Rumpson Middletown or some of the larger places like do you know Uh, do you know are they opening at 5 am? I can tell you that Aspire opens at
5 am in Rosson. So that's the kind of direct comp I think little they're a little more personal training. It's not classes at 5 a.m. But >> correct. >> What about um >> you that's just a place or or or elsewhere that are they also allowed to
open at 5 a.m. and choose not to or are they limited to, you know, based on the zoning of those towns? I guess I'm trying to understand what the what the community outside just varian allows. >> I know Middletown offers 5 a.m. at hot
and soul and I used to teach there and I used to attend the 5 a.m. classes and that's right by Whole Foods and that was very popular. It's like a bar sculpting hot yoga studio. Um >> where' you specifically? >> Middletown. >> Middle town.
I believe ABM on the beach opens at 5 a.m. >> What about what's the EB's business in Perry? Is that right? >> That's 6 a.m. >> 7 a.m. >> 7 a.m. I'm assuming like time is four. Super
early. >> Yes. >> Time opens at 4:30. >> Glass is 5 a.m. >> class is 5 a.m. Yep. If you haven't been sworn, I don't want to take your testimony from the audience. If you have been sworn, I'd like you to come forward and state your
name for purpose and record. >> Or if you'd like Yeah. If there's >> Yeah, folks, if you're going to testify anything, you got to be sworn in. So, if please do because we want everybody, we want the community >> I don't want to disrupt the council's orderly presentation. >> Yeah, we we can wait. Yes.
>> I I didn't I didn't see who that was who was speaking. >> I I didn't know. Oh, I've got board looking at me. >> So, so the so you know we talk about the community at large, you know. So, so you started that when did you start the 5 a.m. classes?
>> Two years ago. So, in 2023. Okay. >> And when did you when did you become aware of the the the 5 a.m. rule >> or the the rule that 6 a.m.
when when did that when did you learn of that? >> When I had the email from Joe Mu. >> And when was that? >> Uh that was in June. That was the I think the exhibit that um A2 which um that's the violation notice from um
>> so you've been operating for two years at 5 a.m. >> Correct. >> Okay. And didn't know you weren't allowed to operate at 5:00 a.m. until like a couple months ago. >> Yeah. And you started to receive complaints
when when did the there were there were also two summons. >> Well, you want to do you want to address A2 as to the status of the violations notice? Maybe just go through a reply. >> Yeah, that's fine.
>> So, um, >> got a compliance. >> I I have it here. Yes, I have a representative for the record. A2 is a June 26, 2025 letter Sheridan signature of Bill
um basically outlining several ordinance sections. I don't know whether they're separate violations or you can just walk through. >> Yeah. Well, the the ordinance section is the um the first one is the development permit. He's just citing, you know, what
she had been what what the the uh property had previously been um uh approved for. Um I I did not see this in the uh the resolution of approval in terms of an hours of operation but uh according
um to the this letter it says that it was approved from 6:00 a.m. to 9:00 a.m. but that is not in the resolution of approval. Now that might have been put on the record and maybe they have there's some other record of that but >> you may find that it's in your standard conditions of complying with all federal
ordinances etc etc. that may have been >> but that that we know is so that that's the ordinance section just the the development permit. So um you know we're here seeking relief basically to um >> so so there let me lead you through it
so we get to the it's one ordinance violation at this point or one municipal matter at this point in time. It's not multiple multiple violations. >> It's one violation. Yes. >> And the status of that right now is what? Has it been resolved being held in the banks? it it's being held in a bank,
but like probably should come from uh m Miss M Sheridan. So, the the board attorney is asking you you received this notice of violation. Um it it it did make reference to a uh the the burough's noise ordinance. Have you received a
summon or ticket from the municipality regarding an alleged violation of the noise ordinance? Yeah, I appeared in court about a month a month month ago and they told me to
work on it. Um, which I have and I'm due in court I think the second week of September again. say back as to whether or not you got relief from this board and or what you're doing to rebate because whether you start at five, six,
seven, you could still have noise violation, >> right? I mean, someone could not >> That is correct. I think what she needs to report back to the municipal court is that she's making efforts to abate >> the noise because the the ticket the
ticket she didn't receive a a citation. She received this notice of vi a violation from the zoning officer regarding opening it at 5:00 am with a cease notice to cease operations which she did. The ticket the ticket that she
received municipal court is for violation of the no noise. So they really are two two separate things. >> Okay. Can you review? Is that your understanding? >> Yes. Basically the plan. So nothing's happening right now with any violation, any notice, any summon until September
at which point we'll report it back. >> Correct. >> Just a question in terms of the timeline. So So I'm looking at a I'm looking at a ticket from August 7th, 6:24 in the morning.
Was that the most recent ticket that was given by one of the police officers here? >> Yes. Yeah. Time in the last month when you were asked to stop. Did you continue at 5 a.m.? >> No. No. That was 6 a.m.
>> This was before you were told to stop at 5 a.m. >> No, I just I just want those are tickets for noise violations. She she got the the notice of violation A2 which is from the zoning officer >> was for of >> that was for
6 a.m. >> When she got that she stopped operating at >> at 6 a.m. at 5 6 a.m. ordinance. This is >> Well, this is No, that's a noise. >> That was a noise. >> Yeah, as I as I noted.
>> Yeah, as I as I noted. Yeah. I just want to make sure we're talking about the same thing. So, the ticket that she got was for violation of the >> 5 a.m. start. >> No, it was for notice of the violation of the noise ordinance. That's my understanding. >> I think the noise ordinance starts at
7:30 a.m. >> That's correct. Right. So, you get a ticket at 6 a.m. 5 or 6 or even 7 10 a.m. >> Yeah, you can get That's right. It can it could you could get within those. >> Correct. That's correct. Yeah. What is different between a 5 a.m. class and a 6
a.m. class? You say they're all this fire beat is the same. >> It's the same class. 5 a.m. has just never been given any noise violation issues or they just happen to be a little bit more quiet
depending on the teacher. It just sounds like an opportunity. I promise we'll open to the public square in. >> Okay. >> Just be patient with us for now. >> We're just letting the applicant make their application. >> Okay. I'm sorry. Going back to council just
talking about what um what what means have you taken to the noise if there is some way you can insulate or windows closed like you know >> we haven't opened the windows at all since the noise violation since the first ticket and we've lowered the music
significantly. We've you don't use headsets. I'm one of the teachers at 6 a.m. and it it's hard, but we don't use a headset. And we've I've ordered three panels for the front windows, the sound group panels. They should be here by next week. We ordered them. They're
custom made, so they're super expensive and they've taken a while to get here, but they should be arriving next Tuesday. So, we'll put those in the front windows. And that's the best we can do right now. That's all we could do. Yeah. And I just you and you you have and
you're and the windows the two windows that face east that are I think closest to that building I think is 774. Don't you have >> panels up there? >> You already have panels in there, correct? >> And and do you feel that they've been effective? >> 100%. >> Yeah. So are those that those panels
that you have in those two windows that's you're you're buying more of those to put in the front windows? Yes. And you said those are custom panels. Yes. >> And they're on order. >> Mhm. Yeah. What do those panels do? What are they rated for? Obviously, it's noise panels, but what
>> they keep a sound from coming going out? >> What are they? >> So, they're right. They're literally the size of the window. You push them in and sound. >> So, they come in and out depending on the class. So, you keep No, they stay in. >> They stay in the entire time. >> Yeah. I I actually, if I could just maybe I have a photo. I don't know if
that helps, but um if I could just show you to that that document just just for the record, just can you I'm going to ask you what >> Oh, >> what is that? >> That's a soundproof panel on the window. >> Okay. And what is that? The second floor. >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> We mark that.
>> Yeah. Mark that. >> Mark that as A8. >> Yeah. I'll just hand that away. What that is? specific rating on it like from a decibel reduction perspective like what does that I guess just trying to understand like the differential between having the panel in the window and not
having a panel. What is the performance of those panels? We've done tests um outside and when we put these in when you're in the alleyway or down the street, you can't hear anything that side from that side and it keeps the noise keeps the noise
inside. I mean, >> we've done desktop meetings, too. And >> I have a question. So you you bought the studio in 19. It looks like all the violations started 23 24 25 like what changed that all of a sudden it's that
much louder. Are the classes like have we I don't maybe it's just people complaining but we've add like a different style of class that's about it and it's become more popular but nothing's changed in terms of the volume. has the same phone
everyone uses. >> Maybe that's where we should go to describe when you have 5A in the class, location, number of participants, what that atmosphere was like.
>> Why the 5 a.m. is more quiet than 6 a.m. just because in terms of I think just 5 a.m. in general just feels like, you know, it's early and >> Okay. So that delayed that means 25 >> depending on who you know some people
cancel >> instructor >> no different instructors >> no but one he's asking one instructor yes one instructor yeah >> total 26 people in the room what's what's happening by way of sound what's happening by way of activity
>> Mr. Kobat I actually have the in one of the instructors from the five amp class who I want to call that might be >> I want to take over your I don't want to take up but I'm just trying to respond to the chair >> understood and and I I don't know if anybody has more question the evidence of community benefit right and so I have
some questions about you know um so the parking as well so there was a parking agreement that was supposed to be signed as a condition of one of the I think that was in Rich's review right and so that there's also been some parking complaints Rich, have there been or
>> There's two parking agreements and an access agreement. The parking agreement which which we have executed was between 774 and 772. >> So that was executed. >> That's the combined parking. Okay. That was >> exe. So that agreement got executed. I
thought I read something that said there was an agreement that wasn't executed. agreement is for the property to the west which is 770. In order to access those parking spaces, they're basically landlocked. They only have access through the existing
driveway at 772. And I believe one of the spaces in the back along the rear of the property um kind of overlaps lots of both property. So that was sort of the purpose. It was like a minor encroachment.
>> So there was an agreement that was because the original the approval in 2016 required that agreement to be signed. They did not. >> Correct. And the my understanding is the owner of the property had been trying to
seek that approval or that that signature and was unable to do so. Um and and we do have some emails to that effect. >> Okay. Yeah. It's They've been the the and I don't represent the landlord, but the
landlord, Mr. Gardella, you know, raised this issue. Um I did get in touch with the landlord and he said he's just been getting not any cooperation from the owner of 770. >> Um but the parking has been functioning,
you know, kind of like that really since 2016 without the agreement. I also as I understood that agreement it would also benefit there were benefits to the owner of 770 too not just to >> it would be it it's a typical shared
>> share shared we've had you know for >> but in terms of spaces it didn't really I think it just added that one like half of space for an encroachment I think they had an agreement about when PO wasn't open that you know his his business or whatever business there
could use it so but that has not been signed. I was in contact with Mr. Godella about that. I I said I wasn't really aware of that because I wasn't involved and I don't represent the landlord, but >> are there I I know we have all the the police department
information. Were there complaints about parking as well? just speaking to community at large and and sort of like >> so uh as your attorney mentioned the parking lot in question is functioning
as far as we can tell >> as per the site plan. >> Okay. >> The issues we've dealt with in the past and we've talked to the owners of PO um >> we've gotten complaints from adjacent business owners that their customers are parking in their parking lots.
>> Okay. So although it's not necessarily a zoning matter, we're called out there. We we do our best to work with the business owner, at least make them aware of the situation, and they've they've said that they've talked to their
>> right. And so you you message your clients, let them know what you can't park here. Some of the just to be honest, some of the some of the adjacent businesses are >> there's no agreement, but they don't they don't call us or or ask, "Hey, why are these folks parking here?" We we see
it. >> They do park in our municipal lot. They do use the streets, you know, river roads, some of the side roads, and then obviously some people walk or bike to the business. So, I mean, that's for you guys to explain, but that's what I've observed.
>> So, how many total clients do you have? Roughly like I mean do you offer monthly membership or other memberships? Yeah. >> So monthly membership plus you know walk-ins or people that do it ad hoc roughly >> 500 600. >> Okay.
>> And are they mostly barri residents >> all over? >> All over. >> They come from Brooklyn. Would you say that I mean there was some >> from fair biking? Yes. >> Yeah. People do bike to your the people walk to the studio.
>> Yeah. >> Your fair. >> Be able to venture a guess how many of the five to 600 are fair residents. >> We tried to do a breakdown. We switched our services that we use for people to sign up classes. So my account and I tried to find but there's no addresses.
So 300 200 I I bet your guess that it's mostly by and large local you know participants at this I realized you might have people coming from far away but I heard somewhere once that like people don't travel for workout experiences more than
like five minutes or 10 miles or something like so what that number or whatever but I'm guessing that boat probably has a very very local customer base. >> Yes. >> I think that as you talk about like not be a benefit to the community more understandable for communities,
>> right? So >> and just back back on the parking issue, I mean is imp parking issue, have you taken any proactive steps? You know, I think there was some questions about it, but just so it's on the record. >> Proactive steps to make sure your
customers members are aware that they shouldn't use certain spaces. Um, >> yes, we put signs up on the doors. >> We literally stop class to take the whoever's parked in the wrong spot. We'll tell them to come out and move their car.
>> We I've bought cones for all the fellow neighboring businesses that have issues with the parking. have cones and like put them in their spots so no one can drive and park there. >> Um yeah
and has that that eliminated some some of the parking issues that that have been alluded to? >> Yes. >> I mean just for the record is as Mr. Alice said it is I think there were 19 spaces required under this under time to
site plan and there's 14 and that's that's the existing but and and at the the 5 a.m. class I mean I just you know for the record at 5:00 a.m. in the morning I would suspect that the the town isn't as busy or full at 5:00 a.m. right for terms of parking as it might
be at 7 7:30 when more people are filling in the town. Is that fair to say? >> Yes. So, does that I I we have a member of the Fair Police Department. Does anyone have any questions? Because I know that they want to be needs to get back onto patrol. So, does anyone have any questions about that?
>> I I do kind of about noise complaints. So, you basically have roughly police will be on 10 noise complaints from September 24 through August 25. So, in a year, you've had roughly 10 complaints. My question is currently where do you stand in as far as like do your windows never open anymore?
>> Correct. >> And then obviously you said you're putting the panels in the windows. >> Yes. >> And then I mean you you keep saying lower music lower music but I mean you still get noise complaints. Do you just stop the music or how low is the music? >> It's a lot lower than it used to be. We didn't stop it completely.
>> And you said no headsets as of this m again as of this moment. >> We've stopped the headsets since the noise complaints. since the first complaint or somewhere along the way. >> Since the the one back in was it three months ago? >> Since the violation alert.
>> Yeah. Yes. >> With your permission, Mr. I know you're not done with your presentation by by a long shot. We interrupt because we do have absolutely officer who's come in to provide the board with some information concerning I guess from his experience with the site.
>> He's got to get back on the road to take testimony. >> Absolutely. >> So I'm going to swear you in square test truth all truth nothing but the truth. >> You state your name spelling your last name for correct? >> Michael Richards. R I C H A R Ds. Okay.
We're taking a look at the property poe at 772 road. Remember it's block 52 in lot. Are you familiar with the yoga studio? >> I am. >> Okay. Can you tell us your experience with regard to either >> ordinance violations and noise violations and I I want to really just
limit it to to 2025 at this point in time. >> Right. >> Because the applicant is basically presenting testimony that subject to the violation of this didn't realize certain ordinances. Can you give us about your experience with that site >> in general for the last year like that
you guys have? Uh we've probably had about 10 noise complaints. Um I've been there a handful of times. I've only issued one. There's been times where we've got complaint I've gone there and it's not reported. It's not as loud as was what was reported. Um but they have
received about five citations for the noise. most of the calls, if not 95% of them, it's between six and seven. Um, I believe I've only seen one time where they were called prior between five and six. Um, so again, I don't know about
the whole extra hour for the main opening, but for the most part when we get called, it's between 6:00 and 7. Um, >> any issues from joint properties concerning parking? >> No, not that I know of. >> Have any interesting questions for your
officer? Um, as far as the noise complaints, is it multiple callers or is it is it >> um from my understanding it's usually the same caller callers? Um, it's not but again I don't know about the other officers that are responding there.
>> I don't get is that the red line on the >> that's one that's where one of the callers from on the on the Okay, >> that's correct. >> That calls to one additional question. How many how many I know there's commercial properties along this road, but there also residential properties
above the commercial properties. Can you give us an idea of residents or locations of of residents? I say either side of this particular site to the rear across the street. So, like as you can see here, so these are the businesses.
Um, and then these are residential houses and that's where I'm assuming when I've responded, that's where the noise complaints are coming from. Um, because that's where the sound travels from the windows in the front of the business. >> Any of the concerns that you're aware of
or information about this application like the board? >> Uh, no. Like I stated, I've I I've never um responded there between the hours of five and six. Um, and when I responded there between six and seven, um, there was a time when it was loud and I ended
up issuing a citation. Other times it's not overly loud or um, like I said, I'll speak with her other workers at the place and they'll they'll turn it down or close the window, you know, fix it. But again, obviously, it's an ongoing issue.
the the the people that are, you know, the the instructors and and those on site >> in representation of the business have been responsive. >> Yeah. Yeah. 100%. Yeah. >> Examination. Any questions? >> I just one question. You said that the
time when it was loud, you issued the um I think you issued a violation. Do you remember when that was? >> Um I do not recall. >> That's okay. >> It was within the last couple of months. >> Got it. I mean, the dates are on >> Yeah. >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> when there's two
>> I guess two citations. I don't >> I believe there was one issued earlier this month that wasn't by me and I think um mine was probably I would say about two months ago. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> June 19th. Looks like June 19th. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Richard. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. Says borrow songs issued. >> Yes. >> Thank you. Yep. >> Additional question for the back. >> Thank you. >> Thank you.
>> Thank you. I appreciate >> Oh, of course. That was helpful. I mean again as you know in terms of the the standard through which we need to evaluate this I mean I think we need to hear testimony as to the benefits at
large to the community right like I think in order for us to render a decision that's the the lens under which we have to sort of you know go through this so I'm happy to hear from the public right >> I I have I just have a couple more
witnesses and and I application for presentation test. >> Yeah. Okay. >> He did had instructors that he called that could give us an atmosphere of what the site is like >> and try to try to and I guess the focus is why this business is different from
five to six as opposed to simply starting at six >> and maybe to get a feel for what happens on campus or on at the site during the class. describe that experience from the board so that they can
>> see why it is that this business is somehow different than any other business and it really is between five and six. I mean you can do everything that you want to do with those unless you tell me differently that there's something different other than commuter and timing
that can be done at six. So the board's going to have that fairly narrow focus. And I know that seems unfair, but I think that's how the board is going to focus. But I think the first step is give us an idea of what happens with your early morning class and why the
additional earlier start has the benefit. I I have no doubt and again I'm not trying to reframe your argument or or do anything. I'm trying to genuinely help you with your proofs. There is no doubt that an early morning workout at 6 has good benefits. All of those things,
all those things I don't think anybody in the board disputes. It's that additional hour that makes it very important and vital as to why we should change the rules that may merit because we that's what we have to do. We have to abide by mayor and council with regard to that start
time unless there are substantial proofs and know substantially outweigh the detriment because we can all talk about what the detriment is. we've identified additional noise potentially maybe starting earlier although past history from what your applicant has testified
we really didn't have that much noise at five but if you really do regiment it you're going to get 10 you're going to get 10 11 or 12 more people back I'm assuming again I don't want to tell you how to do your business because I know you know your business inside out
>> we've we've lost more than those are just members we lost we've lost 25 plus people. There's there's package holders to just monthly members. We've lost 10 to 12. They've canceled their memberships. Package holders still have their packages. They just haven't they're
didn't cancel anything, but they're not coming anymore. So, just adding that. >> Thank you for that clarification. Right now, I had obviously I misunderstood or misinterpreted what you're supposed to. Yes. >> Thank Why don't we um um unless the
board has any other questions of of Miss Sheridan, I'd like to just call my next witness if that's okay. >> I actually have one more question. I I guess I'm just curious, why did it take a year of uh violations basically to start making, you know, soundproof?
Like why didn't you do that when it started? Did you do an outreach to the community? Did you? >> We put the two panels up and then things were quiet for a while and the 5 a.m. were never they never got
noise violations. It was always a six. Um >> when you just so the board member you you and we had a little testimony that the panels you put up on the eastern side of the building. When did you do that? Um
>> a year and a half ago. >> Yeah. And that was because of potential noise concerns. >> Yes. >> And was that because of the building that's located >> to the right of us? >> Yeah. 77. >> And he was fine with it. He's like, "Oh, great." You know, I don't hear anything anymore. So then
we like, "Okay, great. This is awesome." And then just recently we started getting the violations and we started closing the windows. I mean, um,
you can any any other questions? >> So, I'm think about the community before speak. >> That's fine. >> Okay. I think >> Yeah. Well, I'm gonna have to swear I'm going to have to swear you in. I want you to come up as a as your witness. >> Okay. >> I just think she's having a hard time
articulating to you guys because it's a little overwhelming for her. >> Um testimony. >> Yep. >> Ask you to stand please. >> Yeah. >> Tell me for the testimony that you give for the truth. Should we tell you about the truth? >> Yes. >> Ask you state your name for the record. Spell your last name.
>> Katie Keenan. Ken M. >> Thank you. Um, I want to help speak about the community because I understand that that's one of the most important things about this variance. So, I'll give a little backstory. I've been a member of her since she took over in
2019. I'm a 20-year resident of Remson. I have four children. Um, one that I just went to college, my oldest, my youngest is in second grade. And I started working for PO a year and a half ago
April of 204. And then my job kind of merged into the front desk manager because we have a bunch of front desk staff. She has 20 instructors and there's about 12 to 13
front desk people. Um and so speaking for community I know that when I started my friend brought me there and since then I've met more parents of my children's friend like you know in the
community Fair Haven Remson my daughter who just went to college um when she was 16 she started going there and she brought made so many friends local friends because she went to Trinity Hall and next thing you know, they're all
helping out, asking if they could, you know, do the fire beats and the PM. And then she even added like a nighttime class because a lot of these girls were just enjoying it. Um, and anytime any of the local schools come and do the PTO
fundraisers, I mean, Liz was the first to keep a five pack and help, you know, the local schools with the all of our those events like that. Um, she's a dog lover, so she does a lot of the events for the animals, but I think she'd be
more than willing to do any community outreach that would be require like anything that somebody suggested. I don't think she would ever say no. Um, but as for the amount of local people, it is well over half of the people
coming are Little Silver, Fair Haven, Rumson. It's familiar faces. A lot of moms and they're the morning people. You get the >> You get older, you get moms in the more early morning and you get moms that are working early morning and night. Then
you get the stay-at-home moms during the day and then you get the 20-year-olds mixed in. Um I think that I I just wanted to say that. Um what else can I say? Also, um
the parking, um I am so on top of like I've tried to be on top of that because anytime um the neighboring real estate office would call, we would find out who it is and tell them it's not okay. Write notes on
those windows of the doors. If somebody parks in Edward Jones, we put um the cones up and we have we've stopped classes and we're constantly telling people because we don't we're like we don't want that to reflect on us because like she said, we do have people coming
from far away and you guys all know social media and some of the younger instructors that's like how they build their brand, right? So then they catch somebody, somebody sees their TikTok and they're like, "Oh, I came from Staten Island because I just had to take that class." That's not the majority of who
we have there. It's not. We have local residents. A lot of them ride their bike in the morning or walk. Um, and that's it's really nice and it's nice to see familiar faces and then you form friendships that it helps with car pools
and all of that because next thing you know you see somebody and you're like, "Oh, okay. Your oh, your kids's in my class. Okay." And then you form bonds. So, I don't know if you guys have any questions for me, but I just thought I wanted to help speak about the community because I'm there every day and I I see
the comingings and goings and she's a Mammoth Beach, but I'm a little closer because I'm right next door. So, I don't know if you have questions for me, but I just wanted to share. >> No, that was helpful. Thank
>> any questions for I don't have any questions. I mean, so so this speaks to >> Sure. >> Oh, go ahead. Were you working when they did have 5 a.m. classes?
>> My hours are 8 to 12. I am the daytime >> when they had the 5 a.m. classes. >> You were not on campus. >> No, I am not. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Yeah, we have some back here.
Thank you. >> You've got good. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. >> Alexis Campbell, if you could please. >> Yes. But I do need you to spell your last name correctly. >> Alexis Campbell. C A M PB L.
>> I always ask that. It's the easy one. Um, I'm the 5 a.m. teacher. So, I teach the 5 a.m. uh Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday. >> You You did? >> I did. >> Accepting that you So, they were how many days a week?
>> Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday. Yeah. Uh, just to give you a little background on me. Um, I'm Middletown resident, lifelong. Um, I was a teacher in Rumson. I taught at Dean Porter for 13 years. I taught third grade and second grade. I was the Forestdale field hockey coach
and the track and field coach. Um, after my third child, I resigned and that's when I started to get back into fitness and I became a client of Po and I fell in love with it and I um became really good friends with Liz and I started training at that point. She was looking
to bring trainers on. Um, so I trained with Liz for six months. Um, and I got my instructor um, certification and I began teaching there and I've been there for three years. And when uh, I taught different times, I teach five days a
week and when I started, you know, I was teaching various different times. And then um you know I brought many friends there and actually what one thing I love about it is that I now have old students that come into PO and they go oh my gosh Miss Massa I was your student and now
I'm teaching them PO. So I have kids that I taught you know when they were little that are now clients at at POE. Um so you know that's really amazing to to see them walk through the door. Um, so the 5 a.m. started when there was
just a, you know, a need for it. A lot of these teachers, which I used to be, that I could never get to a class before. You have to go teach. Uh, a lot of nurses, um, you know, a lot of, you know, women that work at Riverview, they come and then they go right to work. Um,
commuters, people that have to get on the ferry, you know, after class, they get in the shower and they go. So, um, Firebeat, the actual class, just so you kind of have a gist of it. And just so you know, I I wake up at 3:45. I get to the studio probably around 4:30.
Um, and then, you know, uh, get everything, you know, set up and it's very quiet at that time, you know, like and the the >> what what are you getting set up? >> Uh, you know, just myself, mats, equipment. Um, and then, you know, once
the class starts, then starts. >> How many people show up for class? >> I mean, it varies. Give me the variance. >> What? >> Give me the variance. High to low. >> From 10 people to 25.
>> So it could be almost full to full. >> How long does that class run? >> 50 minutes. >> 50. 5. >> And during that time when there weren't any restrictions, give you an idea of
what kind of sound sound levels. So there's music the whole time playing um you know you start out with a warmup um which it consists about like two songs that you go through a warm-up uh consists of like you know a lot of
planks, jumping jacks um cardio and then we switch to gliders which are like you know like sliders on your legs do little different leg uh exercises, bands. So, we use bands on our legs. Um, then it's arms usually for three songs. Um, you
know, and then we get down to the floor on our mats and we do a glute section. Um, right and left. And then we get to abs and then we're done. It's full body 50 minutes. Uh, the workout's hot as you know. So, you know, everyone is very
sweating a lot and it's hot and people, you know, go in and out of the barn door and go into the AC in the hallway and cool off and that's it. >> Before before the limitations, were you miked? >> What kind of amplification amplification
by way of the music? Did your speakers were there? I'm just I'm trying to create a record for you sense so I have an idea of what's >> there's a system in the studio that the music comes out of. >> Okay. Um, and then that we, you know,
would wear a mic and that's really, you know, the if if you actually I always tell people if you've never experienced PO, you have to because it's it's the nature of the class and why people love it so much that it the music is a big part of it and it was never it's it's
it's a positive part of it and especially at that time when you can go to a class, I'm sure if you've ever been to a workout class, something that's going to get you going and motivate you at that early of a time, you know, that's why people love it so much. And it's it's fast-paced. It's you feel like
you accomplish so much. The amount of you sweat, I mean, and it's positive, you know, and that that's what this all is about, you know. It was never meant to upset anybody or do anything like that. It's but it's a big part of it, you know,
>> and I've never I am very, you know, follow the rules and I've I've as as was said, it was really never during the 5 a.m. there was an issue and I and if there ever was I would you know I'm very controlled when I teach and I'm um I
make >> on the various days during a week is it relatively obviously there's a change you said from anywhere from 10 to 25 but is it usually the 10 same 25 that are coming from each one of your classes during the same >> it's like do I have like consistent clients? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Okay.
>> Yeah. I I I've had the same girls come. So it may vary between 10 and 25, but it's those same 10 and 25. >> Yeah, they I mean it's it's been devastating to those girls that can't come because it's just the the regulars that just go to that time. And for me
too, you know, I have three kids and for my that's my schedule, you know, I get up before my whole family. I go, you know, my husband's home with them. I come back, everyone's still sleeping. So, you know, for me it's like, you know, that's the time I teach. A lot of, you know, a lot of people can't do that
time. I I can, you know, so it's worked out wonderful for me. >> Once you know teaching a 5:00 a.m. class, what were you teaching? >> I teached uh Monday at 10:45, uh Tuesday at 9:30, and then uh Friday at 9:35. >> At this point, do you see the same 10 to
25 people coming to PO >> that were in my class? That were in your class? No. >> Okay. Yeah. Amy, one of the the questions has been asked about, you know, the distinction between the 5 a.m. class or 6 a.m. class or 7 a.m. class. You know, what in your opinion or view your
experience as the instructor, what's unique about the 5 a.m. class and why is that, you know, does it have >> I think it's just that the people that get up for that time, you know, it's just like you're kind of making like a really big extra effort to get there and it's like no messing around. Like
everyone is there to work out. They have places to go. They have things to do and that's it. Like and it's, you know, everyone leaves happy. People wouldn't be getting up that early and going there if they didn't want to. And it's a big part of their routine and it's positive. I mean,
>> you know, it's it's >> Do you do you leave after the five? >> Do I? Yeah. >> Yeah. So, you're not you can't speak to the 6 a.m. class, per se. >> No, I mean, I I leave right after that. Yeah. >> I'm just, you know, trying to figure out the difference between the five and six as far as like all the complaints are
happening at six, not five. So, right. >> You know, are you guys listening to jazz music and they're listening to metal? >> I mean, we don't have >> We do. You open Do you open the windows at 5 a.m.? >> I mean, now we don't we don't dare open a window. >> But we're talking about we're not
talking about the benefits to the the the standard is the benefits of the community, right? And I want to get to that. and we're hearing from, you know, the owner of the business, two employees of the business, and the two employees of the business are not fair residents,
right? So, it's like, what is like I want to get to that if there's a part of the presentation that speaks directly to the benefit to the community, right, to the Fair Haven community. We're talking about overturning an ordinance or
granting an exemption to a, you know, an ordinance that was passed by the governing body, right? So it's like there's a standard here that like I'm I just we need to hear things that speak directly to that standard, right? >> Yeah. I keep hearing benefit to the PO
community. Like you guys are your own community. >> Well, like I I host a um cystic fibrosis charity class every year. I mean, we've done charity things. Uh is that what you're saying? Like how >> Right. I mean, that's all, but I I don't
like I don't see how allowed 5 a.m. class would negate doing things like that, right? Like >> it just add it just adds and those people that can't go to any other time, that's the time they go. So, I mean, you're you're taking a person, you know,
you're that can't go because they have to go to work. And by the time a mom comes home and they're have to take care of their kids, you know, they can't go to any other class time. So >> fair haven people I'm still struggling with understanding we've covered it a
couple times the actual number of people that this impacts for the community of fair haven like I think that's what I'm trying to figure out >> the metric around that >> yeah what it's like it's almost like the uh unique unique customers of Fair Haven that are
in these classes over the course of a month a week like how many people are we talking >> well specifically that 5 campus, right? It's how many of those 25 people are residents of our community that would not have the opportunity to work out because that 5 a.m. doesn't exist,
right? If those if those residents are Little Silver or Middletown or Ocean or elsewhere, that's not necessarily a benefit to our community, I think, is what's what what we're getting at here, right? And so, and and look, I spent many years in the fitness industry. I
know it well. I understand super early mornings. I understand how important that is for many people um especially in careers that don't allow for other times. But specifically as it relates to this, it is, you know, is the benefit to
the community within those 25 people strong enough to consider overturning an ordinance that's been in place for quite some time by merit council. So I think that's what everyone is sort of looking for, right? Are those >> there's a subset of people that are here right now that are actively being
>> affected by the sound >> and they are the surrounding physical surrounding community. They're not this hypothetical group of people that are attending these classes. That's a hard line to connect. These people don't deserve. >> There are fair residents that go to the
5 a.m. >> Of course there are at least 15 they just >> Yeah. Let me I just I think I think we've completed that. I just have one other witness. It isn't a Fair Haven resident. I But I do want to speak to
that a little bit. I mean, I understand that, you know, you're a Fair Haven board, but I think has been talked about, you know, that the benefit to the community. I mean, if if we only looked at businesses for the people that from our towns that showed up, I don't think
that's the correct analysis. Um I I mean, if if Barnacle Bills only got people from Rumpson, they'd be out of business. I mean, I think you you have to look at it a little bit more globally that and we're in a two river community area. I live in Little Silver. I want people from other towns to come to
Little Silver and transact business there. So, I agree with this board member that the as as pertains to the detriments. Yes. I mean, you have to look at the >> else was breaking in noise ordinance, then that would be a problem. They're not there's no noise ordinance that's
being broken at those times. There's not people actively complaining. If there were, that would be a different story. But that's impacting people negatively in our community and that >> but technically not a 5. >> But but my point I the point I'm simply making is and and I understand you're you're you know you're a fair haven
board you're you're concerned about your residents but you know no business is I I think it's it's hard to kind of analyze it by just looking at okay you know that this only be how does it particularly benefit you know fair
haven. think that the benefit and and I'm going to call up some other just one last witness and then we'll be done and then you can hear from the public is that you know you want business to succeed and there's a community there and you know the the I think what you're hearing is that this this type of
business does benefit the community it has health benefits has mental health benefits it has communal benefits all those things are good that's good for fair haven you want good healthy productive people coming into the town whether they're fair haven residents or not. So I I
>> here that's a universal truth that that sort of you you know when the ordinances are constructed all of those you know general factors are you know taken into consideration right like we want obviously we want businesses here we
want businesses to flourish here there's no no question about that but there's a set of ordinances passed by the governing body that you you know that are in place and to, you know, you're then asking, you know, we're all volunteers and serve, you know,
appointed capacity to, you know, overturn something. And there's, you know, there's law and standards on how and why you would do that. And we're, I think, looking for, you know, that kind of evidence.
>> I I understand that. I mean, I may not be able to we may not be able to get you what I'll call, you know, and maybe there's some members in the public here from Fair Haven that will come up. >> Yeah. I mean, maybe just open it up to the public at this point. Let me try
folks from what I'm hearing from the board didn't assist you. If what you said about the PO facility is true, and I at least doubt it's true, then there would be an exception for every spa, for every physical f fitness
center. And and in a sense, the exception will swallow the hole. All I'm saying, we're trying to find out something unique about this that benefits the community. And I I tend to agree with you. I I don't want to I know
talking more about that we're not simply just talking about fair haven community but it is something that's going to be and I as the board member says because there is and I expect we will hear from members of the fair haven community who are going to tell you this is not
necessarily benefiting me and we're going to have to weigh that >> understood. So again try to focus on that and say no one is saying and I don't think the proof at this point in time that you know the type of activity that type of class anytime anyone's
talked about a class that that isn't a benefit but otherwise then as I said that exception would be in the be in the ordinance and they would be bound by that. You have I think we have to understand that mayor and council knew that we had facilities like that but
still didn't find the exception. The only two exceptions are where you meet that standard under the C2 suggest andor in a highly regulated industry. We can't stop and I'm sorry to announce this to the people at large. The trash people who are coming and waking you up at 5:00
in the morning. I can't stop them. I'm sorry. They're a hard regulated industry. There's taste law. So, but outside of that, >> I I understand. No, I completely understand. I just wanted to make the point. I don't know that we're going to have, >> you know, and I completely understand
what what, you know, what the board is getting at. Um, but just, you know, and let me I have one other witness that I wanted to call. She's not not a Fair Haven resident, but she does want to speak and then I think we can turn it over to the open it up to the public. >> Thank you.
Spell your last name. >> Kate Weston. >> I think you were you were initially this morning. Okay. W S T O N. >> Okay. Um, so I just want to give my kind of take on all of this. So I have found
PO to totally change my life. Um, I am a mom of three kids. I commute into New York City 5 days a week. I run a trading desk globally in foreign exchange. I have zero time to work out. My only option is ever 5:00 am so I can catch that ferry. Are there other options in
New Jersey? Of course there are. But this class, I'm telling you, has literally transformed my body. I've lost over 27 pounds since my third child. Um the instructors, like the motivation, the passion, I've never I've just never seen anything like it. And I'm telling
you, I've worked out all over New York City. I mean, I've been everywhere. And this is definitely one of the probably the coolest most special experiences I've ever had. Um I need this class like even you know emotionally physically like this it really like when when she
texted me that it was canceled I was a disaster. I was like what the hell am I going to do? Like I need this to get through my days. My days are really challenging. Um I have a lot of responsibility and this for me mental healthwise it's just it's like I said it's just changed my life. But when you
talk about community and also I'm also you know very into womenowned businesses and you know Liz owns this is her baby that is very special to me that should be something that the community recognizes and you know really really promotes and I would think that they
would. So just that alone I think contributes to your community philanthropy all of the like the charity the events that we do there that we've done at 5:00 a.m. I mean that's pretty awesome that that's allowed and that we get the members that we get to show up for those and donate the money and I
mean thousands of dollars have been raised for um your friends uh charities like I have ones that I you know I'm going to be bring I want to bring at 5 a.m. as well. So, like to me that is showing like what an awesome community actually you guys have. And you know,
I've also met I was just at a party like the other night with like over like 15 Fair Haven women who I never knew before this class. And these are girls that go at 5:00 a.m. So, you're getting at least anywhere from 10 to 15 girls from Fair Haven in that class. Like, I can I find
the names, I'll get their addresses, but they are in that class and they're not going right now. And there are also some working moms who cannot get into the city either. They have husbands that are going to the city, so they have to be home with their kids. To me, this is something that is like so so so important. And again, this goes back to
what type of a community Fair Haven is. So like to me, I I don't I just see this as, you know, almost like I don't want to say a no-brainer, but everything that she's doing is promoting your community. It's creating a comm a culture a an atmosphere for you know women that are
really struggling you know with so many different things and they really really bring out the best and like all of us I just I don't know I can't say it enough I get like emotional over because they really have changed my life I've never found a class that motivated me to get up I went five days a week I get home at
8:30 9:00 at night every night and I'm there at 5:00 in their classes so you know it's and it's not just me God there's so many people I wish you could have had the entire all 500 members because they all would have come. Um, so that's just kind of my take on this and where I do think it benefits your
community. >> Thank you. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Any questions? Does anyone have any >> Yeah, I don't I don't have any I'm not >> Well, let let these people be part of the other folks be part of the public comment. Yeah.
>> Oh, we will. Yeah. I think let them just be part of the public. >> Is there uh Okay. I'm sorry. Someone >> I don't have any more. >> I think you need She might be a Fair Haven res. Is your presentation done and you're ready to open to or do you want to call another
if this person would like to come up? Are you a fair haven? >> All right. Well, then you come up. We'll present you. We'll swear in. Yeah. >> Because otherwise we were going to hear from Mr. Gardell. >> Understood. and then we'll open up with their witness.
>> Why don't we just call this this person as a witness? >> Yeah. No, you can come up as a witness. >> He gets to decide who his witnesses are. I just want to be clear who we were on the record. >> Excellent. Hi. >> We shall swear the testimony you give.
>> I had started a letter to you when I first found out. So, I'll proceed with that >> if that's okay with you. Does that work? I'll I'll just speak a bit. >> No. At this point in time, no. Can you tell me swear the testimony you give
before the board will be the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth? >> I do. >> Can you state your name for the record, spelling your last name, please? >> P R I C E Price. First name Rebecca. >> Thank you, Rebecca Price.
>> Yes. I'm a little shaky when it comes to this kind of stuff, so I'm going to do my best. Um, >> did we get her address? Did you get your address for >> I'm at 90 Hillrest in Fair Haven. Um,
my family and I moved to Fair Haven 3 years ago, renting at 90 Hillrest. Uh, we recently purchased the house and are now full-time Fair Haven residents uh, and homeowners. And we did look in
neighboring towns and believe it or not, a large part of my of our decision to stay in Fair Haven was literally proximity to PO. So we'd be in an open house and I'd be Google Mapsing proximity to PO. So we purchased the
home because I could keep coming to PO. Um, I am a Oh, so I am a fairy bin resident um to advocate for the post 5 a.m. classes.
These classes enable me and all Air Haven residents to leave my home at 4:55 a.m. and return at 6:05 a.m. having taken care of myself and feeling ready to take on the day. uh for me as a
full-time caretaker. So opposite, you know, the opposite end of the spectrum of the power CEO, which is definitely in that room, my goodness. Um is the full-time caretaker. And you know, that means walking in the
door just as my son wakes up and doing the entire morning routine while my partner leaves for work. uh my child is able to have a present regulated healthy communityoriented parent
and I believe that this is the system the family system that really creates the very community uh we all pay to live in. We're blessed to live in a town where this family system is common. Um,
where parents are taking care of themselves and taking care of their children. And it's a place like PO that that actually literally enables that. Um, I believe we must do everything we
can to encourage this family system. So, for full-time professionals, you you've got that one though pretty much covered on the previous testimony, but it means being able to take care of themselves before high stress work days.
I'm in a class with graduate students studying for their boards, doctors preparing for days in the ER, literally, and CEOs, uh, in addition to other full-time caretakers. Um, I am a certified Alexander technique
teacher. So, I don't know if you know much about it, but it's like a very quiet stillness-based um practice. And you know, no one recognize I've actually been doing that for 10 years, studying it very intensively. So, no one
really recognizes the importance of stillness more than I do. However, I've learned there is a time and a place for it. Uh just as there is a time and a
place for music, movement, motivation, and community. Uh my sister died by suicide this November and life became totally excruciating, like excruciating.
Um, it was post 5 amp classes and the music and the movement and the teachers and the community that came with it that literally got me out of bed every single morning.
Um, I haven't missed a single morning until the town's prohibition of them. The music and the teachers work to take people out of their heads and into the present. They create moving meditations,
a source of endorphins, and a push to get stronger. I've been able to focus on building my strength at a time when that seemed literally impossible. Uh, my son is young. He had never had a
babysitter. Never. Uh, the 5 a.m. class times at a time when my husband is home and my son is sleeping. It has been the only way for me to get out of bed and feel ready to start a new day. Something impossible to feel after
a trauma like family suicide. My story, while unique, is not so unique. Life serves everyone lens eventually. Surreal tragedies and terrifying health diagnosis.
when it does, it is having access to places like POE that help people in this community push through and get stronger. Um, I I go on a bit, but I uh
during the hardest year of my life, the one that should have been the darkest and the most isolating, I actually managed to be I I also I mean it was just a year for me, but uh during this hardest year, it should have been
the darkest and most isolating, but I managed to become my strongest and most social myself, which is so interesting because I'm like a full-blown introvert. Everyone I meet there is from Fair Haven. Like, we've moved to Fair Haven
and now I have friends in Fair. I'm like, what? Who knew I could make friends? Like, real community friends. It's It's unbelievable. I go places and it's like oh from Po from Po from Po and
you just I know people everywhere and it's beautiful and I should have been quiet and scared and dark but instead it's opened me up in to this whole new person. Uh and it's
really entirely in thanks to Bose early morning classes. So that's it. That's my story. >> Yeah. Thank you. Thanks for having me. >> Yes.
>> Yes. Rich, any concerns with shooting after this relief this evening by way of opening at 5 a.m. Like I said earlier, I reviewed the
application sort of as a burrow official but also the engineer role. my letter of August 14th, we talked about in the testimony they discussed as far as I could see all the the items
and I um if you want I can go really quickly. We talked about the waivers. Number two, um as part of our ordinance there's a technical design review committee that the applicant had requested
administrative waiver. We wave that. I just spelled out that there were two zoning permit approvals issued by the land use office. They had talked about that one for the first floor which was Pilates and then obviously the continuation of the the yoga studio for
the second floor. I had asked for um kind of a an understanding of the relevant conditions and and kind of how the site functions today which they had talked about. We talked about the
parking agreements. We talked about the violations and the officer was here to testify and one of the last items was parking. The prior approval, 19 spaces were required,
14 are existing, and they did provide testimony on how the parking functions both on site and the adjacent parcels. And then lastly, um just a a minor
comment maybe take back to the property owner the uh in walking the site the gravel lot needs um some maintenance which typically would be done in the fall prior to winter months.
So as far as I could see everything uh in my letter we we discharge your any business that has customer or has soft landing board or variance associated with an earlier start time
than 6 a.m. In the 17 years of being your board engineer, I don't believe we've had any applications before this board for this type of variance. >> Yeah, I' not doing this since my
recollection. >> Thanks, Richie. Thank you. Um, so we have members of the public here that would like to be heard. So I want to get to that. Um, Sheila, are there any is there anyone I we'll get to the people that are present first, but I
also don't want to neglect anyone that joined online that >> we do have people online. So at whatever time you're ready, we can ask them if they have something to say and they'll be able to indicate they can raise. >> Okay. Well, let's start with the people
that are present. I I I feel like there's uh probably members of the public that want to speak. So, let's uh let's get started. Step forward. >> I'm going to swear you in your last name. >> You saw me swear the testimony.
>> I do. >> And can I guess your name, address, spelling your last name, please? >> I'm Stefan. My last name is spelled R U E L L E R. and I'm actually a family resident at U3 Normandy Avenue. >> Should tell me something.
>> Thank you. Great. >> Um, yeah, I just wanted to testify especially for the impact for the community as we see it as neighbors. We are directly in the line of fire that was drawn there. >> Can you see your your residence or where
on the area? >> Yeah. Okay. >> All right. Thank you. >> Thank you. And you see it's quite far away and we still hear the noise. And um so we've been living in Fair Haven for
over 20 years. Have been raising our two daughters here and we definitely love the community and we have been very active in the community like everybody else. And um we never had any problems with neighboring businesses. We frequent all the neighboring businesses. But
since the last couple of years, we had all this issues with um how with noise complaints and um I think the main problem we have with that is that it's very early in the morning and we do actually did have a noise complaint at
5:00 and several times. And it's also not always that, you know, if the noise is there that you actually don't stand up and call somebody to to do that. But it's it's regularly. It's and it's not only the music, it's the amplifi voice amplification via the microphone. The
instructors are yelling really loud and it's so loud that we can hear it in our bedroom with the window our windows closed. Um also the instruct we heard testimony that the windows are closed. That is not the case. We have had several cases where we actually were so
we were woken up this morning and we like yeah got up looked and we walked around to see what was going on. The windows were wide open. Um we've reached out my husband reached out to the um owner and
asked for you know asked them to to keep it down and there was no response on that. they did not get back to us and did not were wouldn't even hear us and talk to us about that. Um I've talked to other
neighbors and there some are here not all of them but we have several neighbors that hear the south as well and um we talked a lot about health and there were a lot of really um stories that were heartbreaking. I I
I agree and and we all very much into health as well. So I work out regularly and I also had I can understand the situation. I'm a working mom. I used to permute to New York myself. Um was still able to actually get exercise in even when there was no 5:00. So I'm I'm a
runner. I go to the Y which in Westbank actually opens at 5:00 a.m. but is also in an area where there's not residential area around. So, and I also don't hear outside of the Y any any noise from the classes that they're holding.
Um, so I can understand that a young woman that's professional has to have opportunities, but do those opportunities have to be in our neighborhood and in a way that distracts so many neighbors that live there and that I think should have a right to have
uninterrupted sleep until like 5 6:00 7:00 which I think is quite normal. And um there also there was a lot of talk about children. We have also a lot of children living in our neighborhood. And um you know while some ladies working
women are working out at 5:00 a.m. I don't think they want their children to be woken up at 5:00 a.m. by noise and um especially when you have young children, you want to have them sleep as long as possible and get them ready to get them out to school. So, you don't want your
children to be woken up at 5:00 by some noise on a regular basis. >> Anything else you'd like to present to? >> No, I think that was it. >> Any questions? Questions? >> Thank you very much.
>> Thank you. >> Okay. >> Okay. Please swear the testimony for the truth. All truth, nothing but the truth. >> Station name spelling the last name against my name is Manford Krueger. K R
U E G- er. So I I think one of the most important things that was overlooked here is how the town found out that they were operating at 5 a.m. It was a noise complaint on May 15th at 5:40 in the morning. I spoke to Chief McGovern
specifically regarding that complaint and he reviewed the body cam and issued a summon based on that evidence. So, yes, I think a month later the cease and desist went out. That's why there are no more 5 a.m. complaints is because they
stopped operating. We called on June 16th at 5:15 a.m. July 4th, 6:20 in the morning. And I believe that's one of the summones that's out there, right? you had I live 500 ft away the town.
>> Can you give us >> Yeah, it's point out where your residence is on the area. >> Sure. >> Here. >> Okay. >> So, that's 10 times the distance the noise ordinance is is in effect. You're
not supposed to hear any noise from any business before 7:30 a.m. within 50 feet. I am 500 feet away. You know, I I went to court on July 10th when PO was uh municipal court and the the prosecutor said that they would
dismiss their tickets if there were no other violation. I heard this evening that there was a violation on the 7th of August. So, it's just not working right. They're not listening. They're not cooperating. They're not good neighbors. The website, too, about the windows
being open. If you go to the website, it says if necessary, clients are allowed to open a window. Okay. Is it that the windows are closed or are they open? So the website is contradictory to what >> website you're referring to is >> post website. Okay.
>> Print of it. >> Not allowed to open them. >> Okay. Please. This gentleman did not interrupt you during your testimony. You'd like the same courtesy extended to him. So I apologize. >> Okay. I pose the only dis business in the district that's ignoring the law and
it shouldn't be rewarded with a five o'clock opening. we've had already issues. This history of repeating incidents of of after a few calm days or weeks it's it's just not sustainable, right?
Um and it's just not it's not just the music, it's the shouting, right? It's the shouting, this amplification that's it's like a I guess it's like a boot camp, but the volume and the shouting and the tone is just insane. Um Fair Haven is mostly residential. I
don't think they have a right to disturb us at these hours. Um the issues ongoing, unresolved, and persistent. Uh look, I I'm all in favor. I'm glad that they're successful, but I think that this needs to be tabled for amount of time to demonstrate that they're not
going to disturb the peace of the of the res of the neighborhood. Um and I I you know, I think that's it. >> Any questions? Any questions? Thank you.
>> Thank you. Appreciate it. Member from >> I'm Claire Perry. P E R R Y. I live at 15 to Normandy. I'm within 200 ft of PO. This is my house right there. >> Thank you.
>> Um I also love working out in the morning. I go to AB Fitness at 7 a.m. which is their earliest class multiple times a week. I used to go to Clementine when it was in the neighborhood. And to my knowledge, none of them um have ever had had noise issues while operating
successful athletic studios in town. Um I understand the the value of the uh 5 a.m. class as it was described. Um but I think the point about you know these other studios being able to operate in compliance with the law and the noise um
is worth considering. Um, I have not called the police, even though I have been woken up multiple times with all the windows in my home closed, partially because I knew my neighbor was calling and I figured, why should I call again? Um, now I know I should probably keep calling. Um, I did email the town code
enforcer after I felt like it had kind of gotten out of hand multiple days in a row with being woken up at 6:00 a.m. multiple times. Um, just to voice my complaint and note that there was a persistent issue. Um it does sound like there's some inconsistencies on what the rules around the windows are. I've
walked by and seen the windows open as recently as a few days ago um during the day. Uh so maybe there are different rules for the morning classes versus the daytime classes, but um it does seem like the noise is persistent even with all of our windows closed. Um and I just
want to say I also love having exercise studios in town that are womenowned. I go to one all the time and uh I think that they do add value, but I think there's a way to do it that's uh kind to the noise of the community. And um even the Scurdo, the coffee shop, which you guys all know will only open at 6:00
a.m. So I think that that's a barometer I think for a community business in town. That's all I have. Any questions? >> Is AB ride is it 7 a.m.? I just as I was sitting here to check their website says
6 a.m. So is there a 6 a.m. class >> the AB fitness in >> one in fair >> the one in fair haven I think if you look at the Google hours it says 6 a.m. But if you go and click in through the classes, the earliest one is 7 to my >> Did you look on the Google hours, right? Okay. I think that might be the
discrepancy. Sometimes when you click in, the hours are different. But check the website. Don't trust me. I'm going to put that. >> Just one question. When when you hear the noise, is it 6:00 a.m. or after? Is that when you're hearing the noise? I'm mo I mean I try to be asleep at that
time so I normally hear it at 6 I would say. Um but definitely before the 7:30 quiet hours so much as I looked at the quiet hours thing I didn't need to know before. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Yes. Go ahead.
>> Hi. My name is Talon Ferguson. F e r guo n. Uh, I'd just like to make a general comment. Uh, in our town, it's old. >> Very good. Yeah. So, I'll just put a testimony here before truthful truth. >> I hope. >> Thank you.
>> Uh, in our town, it's a small town. It's an old town. And we have kind of a unique problem in that residential properties and commercial properties are often abudding. Uh I live adjacent to the Acme shopping center. Um there's no
doubt that a commercial property has impact on residential properties. So in general, I would just ask that the planning board kind of in all matters uh consider that and make sure that residents are protected uh when these types of commercial matters come
forward. Thank you. >> Thanks. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Is there anyone uh anyone else that's present that wants to >> behind the board forward? Sir,
>> you saw me swear the testimony you give before the board be the truth. The whole truth is nothing but the truth. >> I do. >> Can you state your name, spell your last name, and tell us where you live? >> William Heler. H L E R and I'm at 533 River Road.
>> Thank you. Uh, I think it's a kind of a slippery slope here because if you're going to allow them to start at five, then uh, Duffy's gym, that's your you on that. Uh, yes. What you should be over in that
side, right? Maybe recluse yourself. Um, Duffy's gym should start at 5. The the spin class should start at 5. The pilate day should start at 5. and maybe Dunkin' Donut at
five. Why not? It is seems like the same logic as we're following with those people. So, I I don't see where you're going with this. We should keep the ordinance
the way it is. And if the council wants to change the ordinance and change the character of Mayberry, then they should. But what this the pass is uh not very good, I think.
>> I think for the record, Duncan is open at 5:30. They checked that as well. >> They open at 5:30. >> No, no, I think they should open at 6. >> You'd be right. That's 5:30. >> Bad information. I didn't think
>> if that's the case then then maybe there should be uh >> any further >> um businesses >> yes there are other groups of people those people who
sleep late go to bed late and sleep late and are not the early bird people. And there's also people who have to work late, sometimes 2 3:00 in the morning to usually the tech people
to keep your your internet and your porn going for you and uh they sleep late. So there's that's probably a larger community than the uh women doing
yoga. Okay. Thank you. >> Crossontaminator. >> Are you going to uh reproduce yourself because you you have a vested interest? I think >> I don't believe that I have a vested interest. >> You don't? >> I no I don't believe. >> Okay. Thank you. Thank you.
>> From the public I Okay, thank you everybody. I really appreciate >> we want to get online and folks here and now we're >> I don't think anybody has any comments.
Okay. So, um there's a I'm sorry, there's no one else to >> No one's raising me on to make com. >> Okay. So, I think there's a couple of issues, right, that we need to talk about or we need to deliberate on and right. The first is is
>> there let's give this if we're all done with testimony, done with public, would you like to make a closing statement? No, I don't want to make closing statements. No, I'm good. I I think the board understands our position. Um, uh, you know, we presented the evidence and,
uh, no, I don't, it's getting late. Let the board let the board deliver. >> So, I want to thank, you know, first and foremost, thank everybody for coming tonight and for, um, expressing uh, their opinions and their experiences with regards to uh, with regards to this
matter. um and and certainly appreciate all the points of view. Um so again like like I said I think the standard is pretty clear. Is it is it a benefit to the community at large? And is that is that benefit enough to overturn
you know what what mayor and council passed as a you know as an ordinance in the town and and supported by the different circumstances that that Doug laid out for us from the from the MLUL. Um again which governs how we're
supposed to you know the lens at which we're supposed to look at this. Um, so I I I think though the other the other issue though I I think aside from the 5:00 a.m. uh is is the noise, right?
So the noise is happening um you know even after 5:00 a.m. Uh and and and so you know that's something I think that that needs to be addressed and and needs to be taken care of somehow. Um I I think you you you know
maybe having you know more of those panels or other modifications made to the you know made to the building to to contain the sound in in some way might my >> that issue is not >> Yeah I know that I know that. So, I'm
just saying like there's not, you know, there's if if something like that was to be done, then perhaps we can rehear an application or have another application put forth. But, you know, the standard here and the the application that's before us is is one of a C2 variance and
and I think that's, you know, h, you know, we obviously have the the lens under which we have to make that decision. You good to hear from other board members before what would happen one way or the other. I think the applicant will benefit from
your comments. Sometimes what happens is after board comments the applicant as not to go forward takes determine see if they want to revisit the issue. Sometimes they don't. Sometimes just vote. I'm saying this primarily for our newest member
who's not been here before. Not that he is obliged to do that. Uh but in this instance, the straightforward application has been site plan to allow it to have an exception of our ordinance at this point in time and they've specifically reference 5 a.m. to
continue classes that they had before. But say we discussed the standard I think it helps advocate to hear some of your thoughts in regard to this matter. chair, >> any other board member to share their thoughts for the balance will be added.
>> Can I ask a question? So, we're talking about um variance. It's the site plan that that states 6 a.m. start time is the earliest. the other businesses in Fairaven that operate early um regardless of their focus
whether it's fitness or Duncan or what have you do they are they operating on an indiv individual site plan for each uh address the way that the that site plan process works are they all under one blanket kind of site plan I don't
think so it's it's an individual application right >> usually it's an individual application if they've come before the for sight and belief. Everybody comes before the Lord for sight and believe. Some things some places don't require single family
residence does require with regard to commercial depending on the size of what you're doing. They would come before you. There may not be an articulation in a specific resolution as to a start or beginning time. There may have been testimony in their record concerning
what they're proposing to do when they'll have people on campus. Primarily that's a function going back towards what type of parking they have. But there usually is also what I refer to as catch all language which is and you'll see it in
resolutions that are draft that the applicant will abide by any and allable ordinance serious state regulation those kinds of things so that I don't so that the the resolution is inverted with every you know
open on these holidays because of all those kinds of things. So it's generally a catch all as I reviewed the resolution I absolutely agree with council that there is not a specific start time or end time. I also agree with the council that this is not a highly regulated
lead, but I do believe we have a catch all that puts it into the zoning regulation that we discussed before that unless there is an exception requested by the applicant, they're expected to have better start and end consistent with the ordinance. I can't speak to
Dunkin Donuts. I don't have that resolution before me. I don't know what happened. I know that was fairly contested, but it seems like >> well fairly but remember the resolution right like the the the I'm sorry the
ordinance talks about open to the public right so it's not to prevent a manager or somebody like you know the person that teaches the early class from going into the business and doing something inside the business to get ready for the day. That's not open to the public.
That's not Yeah, people will be going in and start >> right the public can walk in. It's 6 a.m. >> When is fair dynam it's it's >> other businesses in town operating early and I'm playing at 6 a.m.
>> Yeah. Right. >> Yeah. But >> and I I don't know that that issue is before you at this point >> any more than you know there are a number of things that I think every one of the board members could say by the way I think there's a violation here we
don't have that authority that becomes a current enforcement issue but in terms of comments that would be helpful for this applicant as to how what your thoughts are as to whether or not you think they either met the criteria haven't ethic criteria
any comment and you don't have to have any comments I just use like making >> you we say community at large that's that's how we phrase this is the standard >> well the standard standard way which again I'll read it into the reckoning the focus of the C2 variance will not be
on the characteristics of the land but rather on characteristics of the land to present an opportunity for improved planning that would benefit the community. Um in in the articulation of that in one of our one of our courts um
said the focus of the case then will not turn on the characteristics of the land the current zoning requirements which create a hardship on an owner warranting the relaxation of the standards and they're comparing to C1. It's a hardship
relaxing, but on the characteristics of the land that present an opportunity for improved zoning and planning that will benefit the community. Um, so that there's something different about this application that they requesting an
additional hour to start. There's something different that benefits the community. I don't think and I and this is where we got up to community before. I don't think it's specifically tied to fair hate. I don't think it's that corateed. I think it's you know if if
you found that this business for some reason provided a benefit that was because of the nature of this business that was unique to this business again so it doesn't my comment before so it doesn't swallow the whole you know what is different about this
that that extra hour benefits this community and said you have certain places where you know there's something unique in in that it really isn't applicable necessarily to this but when they were
reviewing this case was the coffin versus planning board for Warren Township and and there was an issue as to whether or not in examining the C2 court say the legislator legislation added C variance a very narrow band of
cases in which the standard will fall somewhere between the traditional standards hardship on the one hand and special reasons on the other. So in a sense you're looking what is what is in our zoning ordinances say we recognize
something here we want to promote something here we want to promote something different here and this does that we haven't heard that it's not our burden to come up with these rules the applicant has to come forward with those rules either point to something in our
legislation either point to something in our master plan and said you know these are the special needs these are the things that we promote that's different to make it different without that application I don't know where you go to answer your question community two issues I don't think it's up to roco to
say only fair haven you could find that there's a community at large you know that benefits from this and that and that has been substantially way out outweigh the detriment because the detriment we talked about how it impacts residential neighbors how it potentially
impacts residential neighbors and potentially how you then enforce that standard down the line. It is true that no other case creates a precedent for us, but you can see the natural tendency for folks to say what about this, what about that, what about that? Each case
falls up and down >> and does the variance, thank you. Does the variance stay with the property even if PO chooses to move locations or does it stay with >> in this instance? Because of the nature of this, it would stay with this business. It wouldn't seem to in this instance. I don't see it attaching to
them later in this instance. Most of the time the bulk variances C1 and C2 would I and I don't think council dis disagrees with me but if he does you can certainly isn't bound by what you want. >> No I I agree would attach to this particular um
business and use I mean for example if some other you know I think the analysis if the analysis >> coming in they weren't opening up >> yeah the analysis would be different if it's a you know a different type of business. So I I would agree with your you know the board attorney on that.
>> Any other comments that the board members >> I got one more. So we talked about the benefits outweighing the detriments. The detriment is the noise. If the noise abatement works and the detriment is eliminated does that does that shape
people's opinions on this? Meaning if you know I want to support small business I want to support you know female owned. I want to support mental health. want to support the community at large that it's created. Um, but it sounds like the detriment is real to the
residential neighbors in the area. So, I I I'm struggling with this one. But what would help me is if we knew that the noise abatement worked um like completely >> understood >> to the to the satisfaction of the residential community. >> Understood.
And so that's that's that's the balance of it that that I'm struggling with is I think it's it's like as it stands currently, it doesn't seem to outweigh the detriment. Um but but in a perfect world where the noise vapor works, I
think it does substantially benefit. >> We're talking about Yeah. We're also talking about >> unless they choose to go back later. Yeah, we're also talking about there's an ordinance that's been passed and you know
those ordinances go through by a you know process to get passed and there's debates that happen that are just like this you know the the you know so you're asking again you know
us to you know overturn something that's been It's just hard to do. >> Yeah. But I but like the noise standard that's with the standard that's set, right? The noise standard starts early. It's like it's I think it's different. Like business open time is a different
I value it differently than the noise rules. Right. The noise rules are 7:30 a.m. And if the noise abatement is successful and you don't have noise, I don't see the difference between co operating at 5 a.m. and what can operate. >> What about the triple effect with the ordinance on all other businesses? Well,
booster do open up at 5 a.m. or a hardware store at 5 a.m. so contractor could load up his truck before he gets on the road to get his job. I mean, then you have disruption in all different areas. >> I think we're struggling similarly to you. And that's sort of what I came to
like the the the abatement of the noise on one end helped solve it for me, but then I think when you play that forward, the detriment is what you said and what that gentleman is saying as it relates
to other businesses, right? and and how do you then start to define and you define it very specifically and individually against those weights and that was my second thing the triple effect of it
but I struggled similarly to you about the panels earlier like what's the efficacy of those panels and then speculative this >> so any other any other board member comments charcoal effect. I think it's Yeah, it's
a fair point, but would there be so many? >> I mean, would the hardware store open at 5 to accommodate five, you know, contractors wanting to get up that early >> here? Here's generally if comment from the board is done. Here's a generally
plan at this point in time. Otherwise, I'll frame a resolution. >> May let you mind if I talk to my client for five minutes. >> We take a five minutes. >> Okay. So, we're going to start uh we're
going to we're going to resume the meeting. >> Um Mrs. Bush >> here. >> Mr. New >> here. >> Mr. Po >> here. >> Mr. R >> here. >> Mr. Anderson >> here.
>> Here >> so um so we're gonna I guess first I don't know >> well yeah I've had a chance to discuss with my client. I've heard uh first of all I want to thank the board for their time and attention. Um I know this is somewhat of a little bit of a complex difficult issue. I heard somebody said
never heard an application like this before. So, so I understand that and I think having heard the board's comments and um the one board member, you know, kind of struggling with the balancing of the detriments, I you know, we we acknowledge that as we sit here now, there's still noise complaints out
there, noise issues. So, um I think what what we'd like to propose, if the board would be so inclined to allow us, would be to withdraw the application without prejudice um and see if we can address the noise issues. And I I with the understanding I know there's other board
members that um you know have concerns with the other side of the coin and then if we want to come back we come back kind of with a clean slate at least on the um uh noise issue. So if that's and and we appreciate the board really obviously want I do this a lot and you
you like to get a vote but we think in this particular case it would be in everybody's best interest for the board not to act on this tonight if the board would be so inclined. >> Okay. This would be a complete withdrawal. There will be no time in though the >> complete withdrawal with withdrawal
without prejudice but with complete withdrawal. Yes. >> Yes. >> Well, no action taken. Nothing would happen by way. >> Yes. >> Does everyone understand what's happening? Will have to explain. >> Anyone want to make that motion to allow the >> So, so the the five classes obviously
not belong. They're in violation. They they be they'll be in violation of the >> No. Well, yeah, obviously that's a a code enforcement issue and and my client has been honoring that as I think you heard tonight. So, there's no intention to to leave here and stop operating the
5 a.m. class. So, yes. >> A good representation clarify that. >> I ask for a motion to allow the motion. Second ask for >> Mrs. Bush. Yes. >> Mr. Yes,
>> Mr. >> Yes, >> Mr. >> Yes, >> Mr. Anderson. >> Yes, >> Mr. >> Yes. >> to withdraw. >> Again, thank you everybody for the board
for your time and attention on this matter. We appreciate it and enjoy the rest of the summer. >> Thank you. Thank you. Thank How are you? >> Good. How are you? >> Yeah. >> All right.
I saw you taking notes. C2 criterion. >> So, um, we need to talk about, we've asked Michael to be here obviously to resume and help us resume our our discussion of our our master plan requirements for next year. Um, August
of next year, probably a year, like a year, this meeting next year, we're going to have to obviously approve the uh the master plan. So, um, as you all know, we've had, I guess, a number of discussions, number of starts and stops around what we need to do, what we're
supposed to do, how we're supposed to do it. Uh, and so we are um, you know, we've we've enlisted um the planning firm. We've gotten uh a um a statement of work approved u by the council, so we
have budget um to operate. And so um what Michael is going to speak about is I I guess a proposed or you know draft timeline of of what you know what has to
start to happen in sequence and where we have to um you know the different um things that we have to do within that within that sequence. Correct Michael or >> Yeah. Yeah. Um, we've drafted a schedule
and it's subject to change based on how we work with the with the committee. Um, but I want to talk with you about the the first steps that are really important. I really want to I really wanted to focus in on the first step. So, >> to your point, um,
>> master plan re-examination expires. You have your 10 years next August. So, we're on track to um update the master plan. Uh the elements that you've chosen and to also adopt a master plan re-examination report within that
framework. Um a lot of the work crosses over. So, it's a good time to do that. Um updating your policies. So, we've got a a a schedule laid out where we think we can make that happen. Uh we've built in a little buffer. So, we're targeting the end of July to the beginning of
August. So we have a little bit of of room in that. Um but the first steps in this really um there's there's a period of public engagement. There's a there's um committees that we've recommended that be formed. Um and so the first
steps are to constitute these committees. Okay. The first committee is the master plan advisory committee that generally is a subcommittee of the planning board and it could also include uh members a member of the governing body. um or any other people that you
feel have the uh bandwidth and the interest uh to um take that on. Um we don't like to see those too large. Um so I would say anywhere from between three and seven people is probably the most I would do on that, but it's purely up to
you. Um every town does it differently. The other um committees are the technical advisory subcommittees of the master plan committee and those are focused >> question only on the three to seven realize if you have more than a form you're going to be advertising and
publishing because you're having technical meeting but if you don't have four you have other members somewhere in that three to seven less than not you can do >> right it's less than a forum it's going to be >> so four four of our guys >> it's going to be it's going to One or
yeah one or two people two people from probably from the planning maybe three >> four exactly and then there might be other people right there might be like other people >> exactly
>> okay and then there's going to be subcommittees based on the different elements of the plan correct >> that's exactly correct we call those the technical advisory subcommittees call them lots of things but I think that's the what we really are and that's housing, land use, circulation, utilities, and recreation conservation.
Uh, I would suggest that I think housing and land use are tied together so closely that you may want to combine those. Um, you've got your housing plan element done for the fourth round. >> Uh, other than that, I don't know what what you you may be focusing on other
issues like missing middle housing. >> We have we have as a as a board have to discuss if there's anything else that needs to be done for housing amendments, right? because we just did the the update, right? We just >> you did your housing plan on you haven't done your lane plan. >> Right. Okay. Right. But we we've done
Right. The housing element is already reddrafted for the um affordable housing issues. >> It was adopted >> and adopted. Right. So um you know there's that part of the plan. You know I don't foresee anything. We would have
to consult with others to determine if there's anything else that needs to be done for housing. Um but beyond the beyond the the housing plan element is really this you know mandated uh master plan element and fair share plan by the
fair housing act. There are things beyond just meeting your affordable housing obligation or your vacant lot adjustment that come into play. For instance in other towns we focus on different typologies of housing and how to work them into the framework of your
land use uh governance. Um, so there's there's other things that can happen there, but that's but I think that they could be combined together because they're very interrelated. If you're talking about housing, you're talking about land use very often. >> But but essentially, if the board were not to focus on anything else with
regard to the housing element >> based upon what you've done, that would satisfy our master plan exam and update if they had if they decided nothing else. >> Oh, of course. Of course. I'm not suggesting that, but I'm I just
wanted >> Yeah, >> if you went through the housing very detailed. >> Yeah, my only point was that um and some of our towns, they focus on intensity of of development. They focus on scale.
They focus on how things are configured, the types of units, whether or not to permit. Um uh in a lot of the towns with you know high value single family predominated um air um districts they will look at how do they get more
housing units into those areas without disrupting that >> there it's beyond just the numbers of the housing plan. So uh whatever you guys want to work on we're here to work with you. So that's the point. Um so the technical advisory subcommittees and
then we we also encourage and um I didn't say this in our scope of work or proposal but we also like to meet with folks like um your engineer recreation uh uh directors open space coordinators folks like that because they often have
a lot of information uh you know Rich would have information on utilities, roads, infrastructure, things like that, stormwater management, um those kind of things because they all play into land use uh circulation and utilities
clearly. Um but the first step is to to constitute all those committees because those are who we meet with. We don't have the only meeting we have scheduled for the planning board in our scope is when the adoption happens. All this is done outside of the planning board. >> What was the other elements real quick
or the other committees we said we're going to do? housing and land use >> circulation, utilities and recreation and conservation >> and we had discussed but had not yet adopted at the at officially adopted right so we had housing which we thought
was satisfied by what we've already done to be determined but probably satisfied land use was going to be led by Andrew utilities was going to be led by Dave um circulation was going to be led by Anna and um conservation recreation and open
space was Shawn, but Sean's resigned. So, we still don't have somebody to lead uh recreation and open space. So, I mean, we're going to have to formally adopt those leaders. Um, and then I I Doug, does mayor and council
have to approve? >> No. >> So, we don't So, somebody had said or I don't know if that's true or not. That's why I'm asking is so we can appoint those members ourselves, right? like and the members outside. So, so >> I mean there's obviously going to have to be a communication with mayor and
council if we're going to belong on to the engineer for more than scope of mutual work. We have to coordinate with that. But those those are >> no but members of these committees that are not planning members do they have to be approved by mayor and council?
>> I don't believe so. Let me let me confirm. need to affirm this because I I had heard or I >> Josh had said he needed to >> I think it was at a meeting that >> said it was it was a meeting that I don't think you were >> present at insentennial Paul actually
for some reason I I remember I don't remember if it's Chris York or the attorney who originally we thought they didn't need to be and then I didn't >> the attorney or Chris said that they did need approval I
>> sometimes it depends on who's >> okay. So we need to figure that out and get the answer to that. Um and and then but at the next meeting I would think that we could appoint or even at this meeting we could appoint the leaders of each of the subcommittees and at least approve that. That way they can go and
and we can figure out who else needs to be on. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. I'm sorry Michael. >> No and that's and that's important. That's uh because we are going to take all of our direction from the u the master plan committee. >> The master plan committee ultimately is
going to be the decider who says planning board adopt this plan. This is the plan we're bringing to you. Right? That's how it goes. It it comes up from everything else. Um step one, that's step one for you. Step one for us already started. Rich has been providing us all the documents and
data to confirm that we have all of the municipal planning documents. Uh Allison has provided all the ordinances I believe since that have been adopted since the last re-exam. We have reviewed those. I think we're about I want to say we're about 80% done with that. Um and
that will be put together into a briefing for you guys so that you will have that uh essentially a summary of the big points of these documents what you have so you can see the spectrum of planning uh documents that you've had. Um you can see how old they are in many
cases. Um but also the the last reexams in there from 2016. Um we've also got the data we've be begun mapping. Um, we've already built the format for this document so that we're starting to put it all together. Um, so we haven't been waiting for this. We've wanted to push
ahead as fast as we could because we know you have a a a time threshold of this of this year and I'm not concerned about making it. Um, once we get to that document, uh, we're going to have a kickoff meeting with the
the master plan advisory committee. Um at that at that time you will have reviewed our briefing document. >> Okay. >> And you will begin to identify the issues that you want to deal with. Right. >> Okay. When do you when do you anticipate having the briefing document for us?
>> Uh September 1st. It'll probably be before that but September 1st. Um >> okay. So, at a minimum at the next meeting, we need to make sure we have um you know, for each committee who those
committee members are going to be and at least propose them to the planning board to be approved by the planning board so that if they are required to go to mayor council, we can get them approved to mayor and council. So, we have some answers. >> Yeah, I'll have that answer for you when
we get to next meeting. >> Okay. Because once we hear that briefing, that's going to inform the survey or we have to come up with the survey before that. >> No. Now the that's going to inform your
knowledge of what you think the issues have been. >> Okay. >> And you're going to mix that together with the issues you think you need to deal with and the questions that you want >> and that will form the survey >> that that will inform the survey. uh and the questions and the survey can't be
you know I've done surveys with a 100 questions and it takes you 20 minutes and it's too much. >> The survey is really a very high level survey >> uh and you're using it to get people's sentiment and vision for things that you think are important. For instance,
um if if we had to have more homes, where would you like to see them built? Right? Is it downtown? Somewhere else? you know something like that. Um to gauge that there also be demographic questions you would ask in
there too so that you have have that um uh and based on that you are going to develop the questions that you want based on the information we give you your review of that the discussion we have and focusing on the big issues because it's not going to be a monster
survey it's going to be something that's takes about 10 to 15 minutes to fill out not including the demographics. That's how you do that. Um, and then once you have those issues, you develop those questions and we will help you with the
questions, right? You when you start talking to us about the things you want to know, we can help you with how to ask those questions. Okay? But we did not include in our scope building the survey, running the survey, publicizing the survey, analyzing the survey. Once
the results are in, we'll review it together and we'll, you know, we'll go over it and you will say here's what it this means and it should be able to bring your focus in on on the issues which you really want to focus on. Um,
and at that point um the survey the way the way we've done them before, they take between eight and nine weeks to do soup to nuts. So that's that's that's something that needs to be thought of at ASAP once you've constituted your
committees, once we've had our kickoff and we've analyzed it and you have the briefing. Um because it'll take it may take you a week to to agree on the questions. You know, there's some there's going to have to be an agreement. Yes, these are the questions we want to ask. Um then there's test.
You want to test it. It's got to be tested, you know, to make sure it works on different devices, whether it's an iPhone, Android, PC, Mac, all that kind of stuff. That's testing. And then, um, running the survey. And then you have to publicize it. You have to let people
know what's happening. How are you, what are the outlets you're going to use for that? Are you going to use um the website? Usually, most folks use the websites. Um, but are you going to post QR codes somewhere for that? Um and that's all got to be done. So that that
front end of the survey is critically important. Um and then reinforcing it once the survey when you launch a survey generally it's a two to three weeks. I think three weeks is probably a good amount of time for that. But you want to keep pushing people to it. You want to remind them that it's out there. Surveys
out. Have you seen it? You know your friends are doing it. You know let let us know what's go you know let us know what you think. What do you want? Right? That kind of a thing. Um uh and so and then once it's done now it's I think if you use something
like Survey Monkey you get the the what do they call the files the Excel files I forget what they call those CS CSV CSV files right um then you'll be able to to see see what the results are and um be able to incorporate them and we would
have those in appendix uh in the uh in the plan >> okay >> if you need to if you want >> and So in you know based on the the timeline that you're looking at or the draft that that like when does this you know you said the survey soup to nuts 8
to nine weeks ideally when is that nine weeks conclude like when in order to meet your deadlines? Oh, well, I think the frankly we're coming up on the perfect time for survey because everybody's back from summer vacations. People are coming, you know, they're
back in, you know, they're back home for school and all that other stuff. So, you're hitting it at the right time. Uh, the early fall, um, you know, in our draft schedule, we're seeing it, you know, finish the end of October. >> Where are things like updating the the
zoning map? Had some changes from back to that. you know, things like the managers map. Where is that in the time to physically update those? >> Well, well, the we we will be able we've already started on some elements, but um
it's ongoing through this, right? So, we're going to be doing whatever work we can, but until we get through the survey and there's and you've digested that, that's going to give the the master plan committee direction and the technical advisory subcommittees direction. No, I'm talking about just to update where
we are now. I don't master plan. Well, we now when we did the housing and we created new zones map was updated at that >> I don't know >> for the overlay zones. >> Yeah. >> Well, it wouldn't it wouldn't be updated
yet because your plan uh only has draft ordinances. So because the >> let's take something in between the land use land use what are the current uses despite what the zones are what are the current uses in the burrow despite what
the zoning is because you'll have residential uses the commercial zone those kinds of things to update those maps is that something that's being done now ongoing >> no it's not being done
>> how does that get done I I You're talking about you're talking about identifying individual like an existing land use map. >> Yes. >> Oh, existing land use. Yeah, that's that's being done. Um, >> so we've got no >> No, no, no. I didn't know what you were
I was I was not sure what you were saying, but existing land use. We're using mod 4 tax data and that's what it's going to be based on. >> Okay. >> That's just part of the the base of the uh of the land use plan.
But the bulk of the bulk of the elements will be built in the in the initial draft in the between the fall and February of of 26. You know, that's when we'll be really drafting the plan.
>> One thing I was going to bring up the um and maybe this is where it caused a little confusion at the governing body level. the the mayor and council has a land use subcommittee that they formed. >> Terrific.
>> There's various maybe even um Councilman Olsen chairs that subcommittee. He's not here this evening. It was something that um it's it's we've had it in the past.
it it's things that come from the zoning board annual report. >> Things that that chair or members of that board or their professionals want us to look at. I think Doug, you've been part of some of those conversations
where I think their engineer may have drafted some uh items of discussion. We actually have a meeting coming up next week. Mhm. >> They've had they've had a couple meetings this summer, but low attendance for obvious reasons. So,
>> uh we kind of brought this back to life. I think that would be an asset to you guys. Um but I think there's a way where we need to maybe marry some of this together so there's not duplication of efforts or >> anything missed.
>> Anything missed. >> Yeah. >> And it's it's really three items that I always look at. It's it's housekeeping. It's administrative clean up in the ordinance. It's items that my office or land use deals
with on a regular basis where there's just confusion with the wording or how a definition reads or what was the intent of this ordinance and how is it enforced. And then the third is we need to add
you know we need to deal with bolted ceilings because there's no definition and Are you still dealing with that? >> Yes. And um although you only get a couple >> if when it's vaulted and the new owner
comes in, you can create another floor. >> That's how I read it. >> Exactly. I think it that's what that's what you I think you put a foot. If it was above 15 feet, it gets counted double. >> Yeah. There's a there's a definition on
that, but it's the um the questions that always come up is well, how are you interpreting that? And I think it's been consistently interpreted whe whatever it is. So that's some of the items that the committee wants to discuss. >> What a clean up. >> It's clean up. It's it's reassurance
that we're handling things at the same level of intent as the boards are handling it, things of that nature. So, um I'm not sure if you were even aware of that subcommittee. >> Nope. >> So, uh we should probably there is a
resolution out there that names who's on that subcommittee. So, I could certainly maybe Sheila if you can follow. >> Yeah. And then we could talk internally with with Chris. I know there's going to be other discussions on
whoever's named to these various committees whether >> Yeah. I'm going to have a call with Chris tomorrow to make sure that we're on the same page as to what I think planning board controls although as I say using resources in the bureau
certainly not going to just come along but I think how we do that which is where I'm coming from um but nice >> yeah and just to let you know yeah there's there's work and homework being
done out there. So there's there's a lot of terrific good information. >> Well, that's it. I mean that and and this process really should end up so what you're talking about is things that are going to come into play in the re-examination report because
that includes recommendations for zoning changes. >> Yes. Yeah. And it's it's important to include whatever you can in there because um there's noticing issues for things that aren't mentioned in there because of the way the law works, >> right?
>> It's weird. But also um it also is going to inform the land use plan some level too. So yeah, having having those two entities work together um would be very important and it would be informative to this process. So
ideally by the end of October we have the survey completed. Yes. >> Really what you're saying >> the survey is survey result. You have the results in hand. >> The results. >> The results. >> Exactly. >> So by the end of October, right? >> Yes. >> And then what comes after that?
>> After that there's a a master plan committee meeting to review um and the technical advisory uh subcommittee meeting review >> asked to review the results. review the results and and take it in. So, you know, ideally because these things kind
of come up from the >> And when would those when would those meetings have to complete for you? >> Oh, we just we have a week, you know, this is early November. >> Okay. It's right. It's right after and then um >> well that
go >> it's all happening. It's all happening always. >> Um >> and and this is obviously we'll we'll monkey with this as necessary to make sure we hit the the overall deadline. Um, but we do have we also have in our
scope an openhouse. And the question really would be, is the openhouse something you want to use as a way to get more general information after the survey based on what the survey is telling us? Meaning that if we have an
open house, generally we focus on three to four topics and we use those as a way to drill into more deeply what the public may think about these things. Um, alternatively, that openhouse could be
at the conclusion of the preliminary draft, the first draft, where you can then instead of saying, "What do you think?" You can say, "Here's where we're headed. Here are the big ideas. What do you think now? What do you think about this?" Right? So,
there's two different ways to do that. And whichever one you think would be more valuable to you, we can do it at either time. It would just be it >> if we wanted to do it with a draft document which I think would be more effective because I think just the survey people are going to come and just comment on the survey or
>> well it wouldn't be on the survey it would be so imagine the survey says you know um we we'd like to see more housing downtown let's say for in okay well then you might have an open house where you actually have um precedent images of
different types and densities of housing so that the folks folks can rank those. So, saying you want more housing in a place, but what kind of housing, right? That's that's where that would and then that would inform the land use plan, right? Um that's how that evolves to
become more specific at the openhouse level. You're focusing on more specific topics and it's built not just here's what the survey said. It's actually getting more detail and getting more interaction and allows an opportunity for, you know, we would have two
representatives there. The the master plan committee would have representatives there and we would actually man stations, you know, whether it had to do with uh circulation or open space or land use. and we'd have those topics there and we'd be trying to get
more information with more specificity on how we're uh zeroing in on possible um actions that we're going to talk about in the master plan or the re the re-exam. So >> otherwise we're forming our draft based
on our own opinions of the survey, >> right? Without without having that open house. >> Yeah. >> But I'll tell you I'll tell you this. Whether it's a survey or the open house, nobody's giving you the answer. Yeah. Right. You're coming up with the answer, right? You know, nobody's going to come up and be
>> more refined if you have the open, >> right? And it really and and we don't have to decide until we get the survey results. We can look at the survey results >> right and you can say that, >> right? So, so we don't have to make that
decision right now. Um but but there they can be helpful particularly if you have topics you really want to focus on and you can be um and you can engage people that way. Okay. So,
we get to early to mid November. We review, we have meetings to review the survey results and then the open house would happen. At what point at like in order to meet the
deadline, when would that open house have to be? How would the >> If we were going to do it at the front end, >> we're going to do it at the front end. If we're doing at the front end, that open house is happening uh beginning of December. You don't want to go past beginning of December or year into next year. You're not going to get people in
an open house on third week in December. You might not get them at the second week in December. >> You know, we get we get a little scrunch there at the end with Thanksgiving week and um and uh and then you get into the holidays over uh in December.
And that and that really that takes some planning, right? We have to plan that out. Um we would you would need to give us clear direction on what the big the the answers are that you want. We have to build um you know the mechanisms for how we want to get input. A lot of times we use you know
images. We use kind of participation dots and things like that. So you really see what people have preference for. Um, if it's a circulation uh question uh where people want to identify like where they have trouble crossing for
pedestrians and bikes, you know, if it's near the school and I'm having trouble, my kids can't cross there, you know, and you find that everybody's putting a mark right on that spot, that's the kind of thing that you would do. Or I wish there was a a bike lane here and you get folks
to to show that on a map or something like that. Things like that. And so what happens? So so we have the open house let's say at the beginning of December and then what happens like what happens after that then? >> Well after that um we look at the
results of the open house we share them and you're going to give you give us direct >> form the draft like I'm just trying to get an understanding of like >> that's exactly right >> due to like how much >> time do we have like I mean we only have 12 months. >> You got tons of time.
It doesn't seem like we have tons of time. >> From draft point, it'll be January. We have eight months. >> Yeah, we're gonna Yeah, we're going to be fine. I mean, this is this is, you know, we're going to be built. We're already building your plan. I'll say that right now. I I said that first. Um,
you know, it's going to take uh, you know, three three and a half months to to get a a preliminary draft. And you're going to take three weeks to review that. we're going to meet. You're going to tell us, you know, both the technical advisory subcommittee and the committees and and you will say, "Here's what we
want. You know, here's the changes we want. We make those changes, take another look at it, tweak it, and then it's on to the public hearing. And then after the public hearing, if there's any changes after that, because the public's going to weigh in on what they see." >> So, how long does the draft have to be
out there before we can have a public hearing? >> 10 days. >> Okay. So, it's a short Okay. I brought this up early on as part of the open house or the public engagement. I think it's important we look at all
the accomplishments as well. Whether it's a brief overview of all the stuff we've gotten done in 10 years, whether it's the new facilities, whether it's the streetscape, whether it's the, you know, additional pedestrian cross
and you get an opportunity, you get an opportunity to do that when you talk about because you identified many of these projects in your last re-examination report. We were identifying we need to do something with or we need to do something. >> We checked a lot of boxes. >> We need to do something with this. and
you accomplish those feeling check that off >> especially for all the new folks who have moved into town over those 10 years >> that would just that could just be a station at the public open house right >> you know it's hard for me like I think
that there's so much information I want to get from people um at the open house generally if we might show some demographic information so people say oh wow I didn't realize >> well maybe some of that will come out in your briefing >> oh it Well, well, whatever the briefing
is, it's >> all these ordinance updates and all the >> that'll all be in there and that's really feeding the re-exam as well as >> make, you know, where do we go from here in the master plan. >> So, whatever's in there and if there needs to be some sort of summary of these things that's kind of pulled from
that >> and you can help me. My my point is I like to always you want to come out with a positive spin and promote what we've done. Not just talk about we don't have
enough, you know, uh crosswalks on Fair Road or what, you know, whatever it is. >> You could phrase the questions for the survey that way also though like hey the new facility is >> right >> was is there anything you want to add? Like you know you kind of start that way.
>> Yes. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Just something to keep in mind. >> Yeah. That could be a preface to a question. >> Yep. Exactly. >> And then last exam done. Check off. >> Last time we looked at it was check, check. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> That's essentially what a reexaminer
checklist. >> Yeah. >> Recommendations. And I and I think again I encourage everybody I encourage new members you know the demographic information when we did the affordable housing things and all of those aspects
of housing it was interesting to see the change that you have you know age and population you know that is going to you know you talk about a group of young parents
you're going to a significant difference in the types of facilities they want to see, >> you know, because and I'm saying it's not true for everybody, but the more you have in your community, the more you live in that community, what are you looking for?
>> They want they might want more yoga studios. you know, no, I mean, you're gonna say I think you're probably gonna see a very positive reaction to a lot of the recreation, the past recreation facilities you have, but you may also be surprised if people tell you we now have seen more.
>> And we talked about that we have we had a recreation survey recently done. >> Did you send that to us? should have been if not um I know you had asked me about the survey and I said
the only one I'm aware of is the recreation one that was completed and that was through um DJ's office >> and it and it asked a lot of those questions. >> Yeah. Would you bas it's a when was it?
>> This is a >> in the last six months. This is like a basic question and it's a probably a stupid question, but is it going to look different? Like is the document going to be alive and tangible and the one that we have now is so sliced together and
it's old papers that have been scanned in. Is there anything cohesive that that this group can proudly >> do you want it to carry that tradition or do you want do you like that rustic look or do you want something?
>> I don't I don't want I want it to be I'm just wondering if there's something that's that feels a little more breathable and that's a lot more updated. >> Well, I'll say I'll say this. Our approach to to master plans, you know, they can get very wordy depending on what you need, right? And you know, some
towns they want to have real hand in the authorship of it and they wordsmith it. Um, we believe to we want to keep them so that you pick up information very quickly if you're just a resident that when you pick this up
>> that it's as bulleted as we can make it and as little text as we can put in there and where we can to illustrate things that there are graphics and pictures and precedents and >> confirm that like the zoning map will it be legible like these are things that as
>> we've already we've already turned it into a shape file. I mean, we've we've already turned into >> GIS. Let's be very clear. You've got the soils that you have. It's going to be as dry as >> you'll read that, but it's like that's
at least a little more. My question starts when I look at a master plan either from someone that's having an application, >> I'm looking at special reasons. And again, if you're trying to do certain things like I if you were if you were
the applicant this evening, you'd have gone through our special reasons and found something >> and then argue that >> and argue that you would argue from that. So from when it's a living document, it depends on what you're looking for. I like to see the updated, you know, zoning where if you know, as
opposed to if you go three feet deep into the website, it's like, okay, here's the ordinances that are pending that that nobody knows about haven't been codified yet, but you ought to know and it affects your application because it changes the height requirement. It
changes something with vaulted ceiling, changes some land use definition. You also look in many instances I do depending on what I'm doing at that particular time the land use is it up to date you know or do we find out you know
when the applicant comes in and says yeah I know it's commercial but do you know how many residentials you really have in this commercial zone this is the action we use that land use document becomes important as opposed to the zone because if you just looked at the zone okay it's commercial hell no it's mixed
there's a commercial on the first pull the presidential move on the cop. One of the questions I asked the Cok you know what's there and you know those are the living parts of the document. The rest comes into your ordinances but again your ordinances are only informed
by what you set out in the master plan. Again we talked about before we ought to do this and the ordinances ought to reflect that. Okay. And then that informs may be council. Okay. This is what people want to do. There's a problem with Boston ceilings. It continues to be a problem. There's a
problem with parking. Continues to be a problem. Continue to talk about how we can do this. You know, we continue to talk about what how our community is differently in se on a seasonal basis. You know, not so much here, but you know, I represent Belmar also. There's a
whole section on what do we do in the shoulder seasons and what do we you know, there's a parking problem in Belmar out in February, right? those kinds of things, but inform you as to what your burrow then can do for their capital projects. What if your
survey comes back this time and says, "You know what? We want a theater where we can see plays. We want we want something more than borrowing the school facility or want we'd like to enter into a shared partnership for for combined monies
where we get some money from school. vent enter into a combined a shared services agreement where we get to use some school money, we get to use some of our money, we build a first class facility. I don't know that that's going to happen, but again, I'm seeing things like that in different communities and
this is where it starts to bring your ideas and the survey usually informs that. When we got the surveys before, again, I wasn't there at the survey stage, but I saw you in the examination report. The reason we checked off all those things because we knew they were
on the list. That's how the but that's how the hey you better do something about affordable housing before you get building remedy came about. Hey, we need to do something new facility. That's how it came about.
So what do you want to see in the next 10 years to make your community more livable? So, we got um that's where it becomes out. Go back to your >> We've got 10 days of warning before we
can have a public hearing on a draft. That public hearing happens at a planning board meeting. >> Yes. Planning board adopts the master plan and the re-examination report. >> You try to do that all at once. You're not doing multiple. >> Well, it's going to be one document essentially. That's why we're doing it that way. it comes so the public so
assuming people would come and make comment at that public hearing because that'll be the first time or when it's made available will be the first time they've had exposure to the draft and so what like if there's >> it doesn't you could post it a month
before if you had >> right I mean we're going to post it as I mean 10 days is the the minimum right so you would have to then you know post the um uh I'm sorry, post the the draft and then you have the public hearing. I
assume it gets approved at that meeting or there's then a process. >> That's our assump that's our assumption. Our assumption is because of the process we're going to undertake that this is, you know, >> reflects the the the community uh interest in this
>> and it doesn't have to go to any of the other doesn't have to go to zoning doesn't have to go anywhere to get because of the county planning board. >> But but that's a different that's just a filing thing. >> Yeah, that's a fing that's after it's been approved. >> After it's adopted within 30 days, it's
filed with the county planning board and with the uh office of planning advocacy in the state. >> You have to give them the copy of the >> with the notice that you provide to them. >> That's right. >> I'm talking about before it's approved by the plan. >> No, that's that's what Doug was just
saying. It goes to the It goes to it goes to the county. Yeah. >> Okay. And so um we only have to approve it before August 20 adopted. Yes. >> Adopted. Okay. So
>> I mean that's >> you've described a process effectively that starts now but I guess goes probably through like early January >> or at least our first meeting January. I would assume I would I would think is
when we would approve it if we're able to hit all this which is I think >> in J no July we're talking about July August 26 >> right I'm saying if we're going to have the open house the beginning of December and then that will inform the draft then
the draft gets completed I would assume after that we make that >> theoretically if we did everything and knocked everything down in sequence you've outlined a process that takes call it six months. >> We said the draft might take three
months. >> I'm just see what I'm trying to do is figure out like how much time you you know because I we've been talking about this trying to get started all this other stuff and I'm just thinking to myself are the the schedule that we've laid laid out the draft schedule has a
third week of July uh public hearing on it. >> Okay. So what's happening? >> But that gives us a buffer in case for some reason there's some hiccups. You know, >> suddenly somebody wakes up and says, "Hey, by the way, that's when you get your comments, right?" >> Well, you said the draft could take
three months to do >> the draft >> to go back and forth with and whatever you're doing with it. >> Well, the initial draft that we're going to build will start before the open house. Right. >> Right. And it's going to go through to March. >> Right. February, March. >> Exactly.
>> Right background. >> And we're doing and this will they will all these elements will go in parallel. It's not like we're doing sequence and we're going to have a you know we don't have a hearing on one hearing another. They're all getting built together. At the end of that draft, the master plan
committee reviews it and the technical advisory subcommittees review it and we meet with you both the technical and the master plan committees to go over the draft and we page turning everything but each technical advisory committee will
only be responsible for their particular piece. So they're the small pieces and then they all come up to the master plan committee. >> Anyone have any questions? Yeah. Should we nominate somebody for wreck and uh recreation
for recreation? >> He asked if I want to do it. I'm doing circulation. >> You're already doing circulation. Yeah, >> I'm good for that. >> We need one. Yeah, we need people that aren't going to be burdened by I'd even like someone else to take utilities, right? because it's it's going to be you
and I plus someone else on the mass on the ste you know the main committee. >> Oh, so you want to sub me out? >> I mean ideally I'm not I don't want to sub you out. >> You know what I said? I think that utilities is is is pretty much already
completed by Rich. Okay. So I I don't well I feel as if we have a real close resource on that and so >> I don't know that I think it's light and I don't mind. >> Fair enough. I appreciate that. >> Sean had developed for whoever takes it
a short list of people that he recommended >> the committee as well. So I have spoken to a few of them in the interim and whoever wants it I'm happy to connect you. It's a good group. It's a mixed group of people that have expressed interest in working on it. So
>> combining >> we are combining space. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> A good one for the new initiation. That is the All right. Let's do it. Supposed to say thank you. Can I have
We'll talk about the group. >> They need utilities also, right? >> Really test this guy. >> Wreck game. You need, you know, utilities. You drain the storm water.
>> I'll write the survey, too. It's fine. >> Um, does anyone have So, uh, >> just just one more thing I wanted to mention. Um, I would suggest somehow on your website dedicating a page to this so that as things are, you know, as you're doing public meetings, as you're
doing a survey, as you're doing an open house, if we are posting any draft elements, which >> it's up to you to do that, right? Right. if you want to have a farm full of people chiming in in the early stages. Um but any any information with respect
to this um and then ultimately the adopted uh documents can be there with the rest of the documents that are up there. >> So do that. >> Um I think it would have that
>> communications. >> Yeah. I mean it would have to go through person. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I would I would suggest, >> you know, public engagement planning is is on us, right? Communications planning
is on you. I would I might almost have a separate committee just to talk about communications if you wanted to. Like that's that that's something that requires attention. It's got to be tied in with the schedule. It's got to understand what's going to come out in terms of information, if there's going to be a press release or anything like
that. Communications planning. Um, if you do it right, is very helpful. >> I can help with any visuals, graphics, if there's content you want to push, I'm happy to make it >> Yeah.
>> digestible. >> Okay. Like if if you wanted to brand this, right? You know, if you wanted to create a brand for this, so people see it and they say, "Oh, that's the master plan continuity >> because it's a it's a longer term project. It's let's for it's essentially
a year-long project like, you know, >> year long." So when folks see that, let's say you're putting a QR code out there so that they can go to the survey and it's got a a branded, you know, it's got the logo, but it's got something attached to it. So it's the master plan. That's a that's a good idea because
people say, "Oh, this is a master plan. Oh, it's a master plan meeting. Oh, it's a master plan openhouse." Um, that could be helpful in your communications. >> By most places like to create a little iconic iconographic
identifier so that it helps. >> You have any ideas? Um, I specifically want to pull from the smoke stack image coming out of the Alberta. But no, I'll um I can put a short list of things together and do that.
>> Um, what uh what else? Michael, >> I think that's pretty much it. Um, I think you know those are the steps that are really going to get this thing rolling and the public engagement steps that need to happen to so that we can really start digging into the plan.
>> Questions? Anybody have further comments? >> Did we need to do a motion for the for the committee subcommittee? >> Um, we should Yeah, we could probably do that. >> Yeah, we should do that today. >> Sure. And then that way at least at the
planning board level they're going. >> Yeah. All right. I'd like to make a motion to nominate the technical subcommittees. Uh starting with housing land use uh Andrew Anderson.
Um utilities. I'll not maintain you. Um circulation circulation Anna Anna >> rack and space >> and uh master credit advisory committee at least for starters is going to be myself
and then whatever Yeah, >> Mrs. Bush. >> Yes. >> Mr. Mill. >> Yes. >> Mr. >> Yes. >> Mr. >> Yes. >> Yes.
>> Yes. >> Yes. >> That's it. >> Oh, yes. I'm sorry. Nothing. Okay. Nothing. No, anything
to >> quite a