##VIDEO ID:oWyuo-JqiTQ## there anyone on Zoom do we we need the T or no no it looks like it is oh no yet nobody why does the upper pel remind me of the Last Supper fr's kind of got the Halo probably not appropriate you know all right uh this is a regular meeting of the Fair Haven planning board adequate notice of this meeting has been given pursuant to the provisions of the open public meetings act at the time of the board reorganization in January of this past year the board adopted its regular meeting schedule for the year no notice of the schedule was sent to and published in the Asbury Park Press on January 6 2024 and the two ofer times on February 1st 2024 as well as supplemented by published notice of July 11th 2024 to advise of the hybrid for minut that notice was also posted on the bulletin board in Burl Hall and has remained continuously posted there as required by the statute a copy of the notice is and has been available to the public and is on file in the office of the burough clerk a copy of the notice has also been sent to such members of the public as have requested such information in accordance with the statute adequate notice having been given the board secretary is directed is directed to include this statement in the minutes of the meeting uh so uh let's have a roll call Mr Pon here Mr Bush here Mr Cot here Mr new Mr pan here Mr Ral here Mr Nick Mr Anderson here Mrs an Mr valy Mr here great uh let's have uh allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all so we have uh no old business to continue uh nor do we have uh any any new business uh with the uh approval of the October 8th 2024 minutes uh those minutes were sent ahead of time to the members of the board for review um I I was not present last week I'm sorry last month um so I read I make a motion to appr I'll second it yes Mr yes Mr Anderson yes Mr yes so um why don't we start with um the discussion of the new affordable housing numbers we'll start with that um and then we'll do the meeting dates and then the master plan is that sound okay to everybody just go a little bit out of boorder um oh did you guys just start your meeting we did yes yes yeah we got the alarm came in you did I I don't know how I the alarm I thought the alarm was off and then I unlocked the front door um DJ was here and I didn't touch the alarm but then I think when somebody came in the front door the alarm went off so so I ran up to the panel and I pushed in my code and I think we're good all right okay thank you thank you very much um okay so let's start with the uh with the new affordable housing numbers um I believe um we we when do we approve we approve the the board has to approve the new um the new report in by when is that June yeah I think I think so I think it's June I have notes July of 2025 I think that's it was June or July I believe of 2025 where we'll have to review uh review and adopt the report as a board yeah so I had March uh the numbers become finalized we have to accept them the numbers become finalized by March and then I have I have more I don't know where it is then I have ultimately July of 2025 and by numbers you mean the housing numbers portable housing numbers yeah so what I have is we had they released their numbers we have I think until January to accept or provide documentation for why we think there's a different number and then by April or March rather the numberers go into effect in the locked in minus the vacant land adjustments I believe I I have the June date also yeah June I have June ad fair share so rich do you do you have the the information I did not I was up I'm checking also so I have I have written here um so on okay on October 20th our new quota calculation came out this is what we were exp this is what Mike Edwards expect told us to expect and then before Jan 3 January 31st the burrow needs to adopt a resolution that's I kind of sort of remember there was some dates that were at odds with like like our like our housing deadline is the June 2025 but if we have an obligation here in Fair Haven at the council level that's that's like disjointed from but I'm I'm relying upon Mr Edwards that he gave us and I'm sure we're we're going to be we have some time one but I I'm sure that once we see that um Council I know is aware of it Council I'm sure will take the appropriate action with regard to option um and we'll take direction from there so it says the prospective need is 92 units that's as as I'm reading the document I read it the same way I pulled up pulled it up from the site that's what it says we have now that doesn't remove Our overriding obligation of of the bigger number as mik Edward said but for the fourth round number right that's our that's the new number going forward I think it's for 25 to 35 10 years 20 2025 2035 that's that's our fourth round number we had other numbers on AG go go back and take a look at that um as to what our cumulative number is and I think what we did with regard to our affordable housing ordinances last time was come up with a regional plan at how to take care of what our current obligation was and now that that that perspective the perspective units are the that's the UN that's the unmet need the addition to the unmet need no that is the so 92 is the total number of units we're required to have correct this for this ground I mean if you were to complete your entire obligation for affordable housing it would have been also addressing the other rounds coming into this one this is the new number coming in next 10 years in addition to the old number correct so the only was like 47 371 we have for our un was 367 so we're adding 92 367 and that's why they refer to as the fourth round right going forward but it's an addition to the previous numb so correct this is all based on 2020 censes and and that's before any vacant land adjustment no I think that I I I think they rely upon the data that we have provided them no I don't think that's correct I think my understanding is that number is not taken into consideration anything that we can do to mitigate those numbers so my understanding is that that is the obligation that that DCA has use their calculations and come up with now we have until January to either accept Okay I I agree with and then and then from January to March we go through that process and then in March the numers locked in minus any concessions for proximity to trains other credits you may get bacon land adjustments and all those things so that happens after March is my understanding I'm not an expert on it so I could be wrong but that's my understanding and then I think we have from March to June to I don't remember that B I was going to say provide the resolution but I think the resolution actually has to be done prior to March I could be wrong but there there's another trigger to that June date so and my understanding is it is that that 92 is before any other adjustments so what I'm hearing from other towns is many of them are accepting the number that's given because the metric to to get to it is pretty definitive that's not to say that that that's what we have to do but but what governs us though is the is the the overlay right which which designates which areas we would potentially put those units and what if that do they do they make a does anyone know if they make a if they make a judgment or an opinion on whether that overlay is sufficient well no we we have to each time you review we have to identify a certain number of areas that are going to be capable of providing so the over like 10% of I don't remember the exact metrics maybe 25 it's actually it's 25% of the ultimate need so if that 92 let's say gets reduced to 50 right then we're going to have 25% of 50 so that so the overlay would have to provide enough for 25% of correct of that theoretical 50 plus right all the ones from the prior rounds yes we've already sa by prior rounds yeah I don't think prior round no the prior rounds were all done in the prior rounds as it relates to okay so then the overlay has be modified overlay would have to be modified to accommodate the [Music] 25% so we're going to have to identify land that can be designated as an affordable overlay which is going to be challenging given of them last round so well that's you go and that's why I agree with Mr Anderson saying what opportunities are presented by way of available land and based on what we've done today we're we're it's always going to be the same issue you've got your plan in place for going forward for up to 2025 and now where can you find more for 25 35 um so I while you don't have to reinvent the wheel in certain instances it has to be a realistic plan that you can say okay if there's a challenge this is how we can do it and that's how we must we get protection from a builder's remedy saying here's where we're going to do this here's the area we want to do this and here's how we can get the blessing of the course are we required to would we in order to in order to accommodate the additional units like so so Betsy you you just I I think suggested like you could change the density are you required to rezone like if you don't have enough if you don't have enough space in the overlay are you required like would you be required to have to rezone in any way to in order to then accommodate I don't think so so your zoning acts as a as a sort of um protecting not protect but but as a as a boundary as a bound an upper or well to to a certain extent let Tak an extreme and extraordinary circumstance let's say all of your zoning was 3 ACR zoning right you know that that wouldn't pass mustard there there is discussion where you need you may need to provide opportunities for greater density than you currently do but as to a resoning it doesn't mean you suddenly have to take you know commercial properties and make them affordable housing you need to provide an opportunity that's realistic to to accommodate that based upon opportunities in your mun where do you have vac land where do you have things and and even our last plan you know I know folks were concerned when we said well you know if in the future the church property becomes available and it was what do you mean you're going to condemn no no we not condemning anything we're saying that's an opportunity in the future from where we can play something same thing with regard to our in a sense we really did rezone with regard to our I think it was our Public Works property because we and we subdivided to provide an opportunity there to put some housing in there so yeah south of the DPW what's that south of the DPW so I think we've pretty much used any available proper and you but you're going to have to reexamine and see because you know what properties have become available what properties are there there is also some different formulas I understand by have not usually the the Specialists with regard to these things get into this I have not dug into it I'm very of what you want want me to do but there may be other opportunities years ago there were opportunities that another municipality where we approached and said look we've got all these you know overnight suddenly we had second dwellings in the back seir Community Town they've been there for 30 years they were never formally approved but they're there grandfather can we now get if we bring those up to code can we get credit for it and that at least at one point in time the council affordable housing said no we can't do that now I understand there are opportunities to do that um where if you bring them up to code restrict them you maybe use those for your accounts so there may be other opportunities in municipality to do that to work with someone who in the past has been told look there's no two residential units on the lot that's non-conforming where now perhaps there may be an opportunity where we can at least bring that up to code and allow that to happen if that's what the way mayor council want to go again they're going to design that we will obviously take a look at that we will obviously weigh in as to where there are opportunities to do that you can overlay 550 I think you missed it last time which I happened to own WE Post 550 River Road the warmer back I mean it you know was carved out last time I think you missed it but and and and the other thing is they're very Nuance like to your your point about um zoning providing protection yes and no because the you know e even the stuff around vacant land credits technically you may be out of land horizontally but you've got air so if they want they can start imposing vertical things from a Builders around these sampling so the um importance of coming up with the plan that's appropriate is to avoid our time's liability from the Builder coming in and suing for Builder's remedy to try to get vertical Force comps so we need to be super thoughtful in how we accommodate that's right that when we use the term zoning generally industry zoning also involves density that's what you're seeing they were going to they're going to aide you to have greater density perhaps about a commercial problem because now there's an opportunity um what our uh zoning limits on height would that be uh still in place if I think we went up to three stories in the uh business are the answer is it depends it depends now and that's why I think rather than get into you want to begin to start picking out those areas where you say look if I am going to do something work how does it work with my traffic as it OPP to me something just popped into an area that that property became available now someone's coming in and saying you don't have a viable plan I'm going to give you a viable opportunity and here's what I'm proposing um and and force your hand to do that at leasts to come into because most of these things don't ultimately go to trial they are settled you know they're settled as to okay how can we accommodate this I think we're also limited by fire and Rescue by the size of our fire department and the height that the ladders can go we can't force you to buy new fire trucks [Music] one yeah I don't think they will as long as everyone is thoughtful enough in in how they overlay and and how you accommodate the perspective need that 25% in in the new plan if it's done well I think youo a l eyes on you know I mean look it's what M did in in rson handful of years ago right on Bingham place and then on um on the other right to do on C where he's doing the affordable behind BS but but but that was exactly that I'm going to sue you for Builder's remedy you guys are exposed so I want to be able to do my tow houses here and I want to get a bunch of density and do tow houses here and they said no and he said well then I'm have to Super Builder remedy and the solution was you have this spot on cartry that we can pack in 13 affordable units to accommodate a revive need and assuming we all agree to that then I won't move forward and do more density than I'm proposing so um I think we can I think we can accomplish it 92 units of to come up that's a lot that number is going to come substantially down I think it's going to once you take I don't know what the calculation is for the vacant land adust 25% increase on more than that on what we already have but but we will it the numbers are big everywhere this year I mean they're they're really big the fourth round and we're gonna we really have limited Bacon Land and limited ability to do in this town outside of going vertical which will change the character in the town right more so than the 38 feet that was done last round I think if everyone looks carefully we can probably find a few places that weren't overlay but we can provide additional overlays before we start looking at additional type because that's the other option all all under all with the affordable attorney's counsel right I don't know I know enough about it but I don't know enough no no no right right so so do we so I rich we didn't come up with the overlays a couple of years ago I don't that wasn't a planning board thing that was who did that the the planners that was the affordable housing planner with M Edwards and just circling back on some key dates but but I think the planning board did have we had in but we didn't like I I remember that it the the graphs and the map came to us and then we yeah is that H at the time so that plan um so by June 30th of 25 each municipality must adopt a housing element in fair share plan that's what you're talking about by January 31st which is in months that's where each municipality must adopt a resolution with the determination of its present and perspective fair share obligation so that's that's the resolution you accept whether or not you say okay we're going to accept the 92 and then there's other deadlines where interested parties can challenge that number the municipality can challenge the determination and and so I assume Mike Edwards and they're they're going to determine or we're going to be advised whether we're going to we're gonna we're gonna whether we should accept the 92 or not so we could we could theoretically say we don't accept this and then July 1 the third round expires and that's when the fourth round starts oh that was July right so in January that's the resolution that's the council has to put forth the resolution Jan January 1st 31st the council right municipality adopts it so okay oh that's right that's right that's right because when when Mike was here we talked about that we're supposed to advise our our role is to advise what the council has to pass the the resolution so we should see that I would think we would see that or need to see that resolution next meeting yeah we should on with Mike to determine like because these timelines are really fast and and they're hard so there there there there are some pushes at the moment to give some forgiveness to the timelines because they're going to be really hard to meet but we should be talking to M now about whether he agrees with that number right so we should we should probably have Mike come to the next meeting then the December meeting and then Betsy do you know if if there's like a draft resolution yet in Council I haven't seen anything Haven seen okay but I'm going to ask go I'm going to meet with burlin minister on so I will start that conversation with him because otherwise nobody's doing anything no he's our ADR no I I don't think it ever rests quite for he's on it I'm no I think they are I follow Mike Edwards I believe this week so they're things are moving administratively and then also consider bringing in your affordable housing planner at some point as well is the two of them as a team they're kind of yeah I don't know who it is I thought it was R yeah it's Hing rule no I thought we kept them on as our affordable housing not planner just affordable housing so we have two planners we have an affordable housing planner which is hire and Rule and then the other planner CCH it's Kendra Associates yeah yeah H rules no longer okay who is it Kendra Lee Kyle and Kyle Associates or and the administrative agent okay good to know I don't even I don't know who they are okay we need to get them involved yeah well we need I mean the council I I mean I'm like you said the burough administrator and the like the council has to adopt it but we have to it has to be adopted by January we would need to see it at the next meeting I would think make the determination as to whether or not that's a realistic number for us not withstanding the fact that there'll be adjustments to it are I think the first question is are they going to accept it I'm sure we're going to hear from the professions that they' hired as to whether or not this is challengeable It's not challengeable and agreeable to they take that Mone and then we start working with that all right so do we need Mike Edwards at this next meeting it sounds like all the stuff's happening outside of planning board I mean for educational purposes it does sound like we need I feel we need but we need are we going are we going to be involved this uh January resolution why don't we Circle back with Chris and see see where the process is and then Michael came here what twoo that was super inform that was really I'm GNA see him Friday at 11 okay okay um and I mean you know we can accommodate here as we did in the past if it's just a phone in you know we could do that too as to but he will probably be circumspective with regard to whether that is or isn't the number until he's given information from Council he's not going to want to announce that publicly until Council has has made the determination and receive their Council on as a council we have not heard from him okay I'm guessing I'm guessing he's pretty busy now he's not he's not just representing uh us and all this I'm guessing that there are other Town news got to get back to I worry I would love to be advised as to what you know the the next steps will be and Council will decide but do we really need to jam up Mike Edward's calendar with a planning board specific meeting or is it should we just wait to hear from Council on what the accept I I think well I'm worried we're going to get something or have to call a special meeting if the if the if the deadline for passing of the resolution is January 31st two Mee between we have two meetings between then and now so actually but then we're going to be forced to to sort of [Music] provide I mean it may be worthwhile to get an update the next meeting the process is yes we agree on the number and I think that that's all that's happening at that time not we have a full plan in place it's yes we agree yes we agree the number you DCA have come out and said our number for 2025 to 2035 92 units they published that now everybody's digesting that chewing that seeing okay is that a realistic number did they use the and they and there were important they have they show you the methodology etc etc it's that I think the the decision that's first made by Council up or down is is that is that going to be the number now when we work from there in terms of where we go from there I think we're going to have the same process we did before are all the so the 92 units is the perspective so so do they do we get what the adjustments are at at that or we're just the N we're ageing at the 92 which is the Baseline correct and then at some point all those adjustments would start to to sort of flow in yes okay a l so then maybe it's not that it's like not in our hands it's like realistically but but I but I think Mr Della has has given you sound CS let's see what let's see what Chris York is doing yeah let's see where where they're Adam and we can also just ask if yeah if you know we can ask Chris like is there you know can you give us an update at the next meeting or can somebody give us just and there something from your professions that you can share with the board on a confidential basis we'd love to hear right I'll talk to him on Friday okay um so before we go into the so I think we're good for for this topic uh before we go into the next topic I'll just ask any any any members of the public have any any comments on on this anything they they want to talk about and there's no one on Zoom right she okay um before we move on just ask you a question did you say that we may be having an application come before us uh we are not because they the change of jurisdiction only oh okay so yeah were there was two right there there was 775 and then the2020 River subdivision oh 775 River Road commercial okay and so both those go to zoning and don't have to ever come to us or may come to us they will go to zoning board and do all their site plan review and subdivision you have you have the option when the when the higher relief or the more burdensome relief goes before the Zoning Board of adjustment to do One-Stop shopping and and that's and that's where the zoning board where it usually doesn't hear from a plan they usually not hearing okay I just didn't want us to get backed up if we have too many things on the agenda I just I just want to ask so we have we as a planning board have no affordable housing deliverables between now and next week doesn't seem right yeah all right um so let's let's look at the dates um for next year uh I did I did notice in a reorganization meeting on 2026 January 19th is Mar L 13 day it's also Monday we for the 21st yeah she's 2026 talking oh yeah it's the last one yeah the 19 not oh so I'm sorry this the 20th January 20th um this should be okay so let's start so the reorganization uh the first meeting in January is one two it's the third Tuesday um of January 2025 I I don't [Music] um I guess I think that one's already been approved last year yes right that's right January that one's already been published approved okay so then we move to February 18th um so that so that's the day after the Monday of President's Day I I don't know the public school calendar we should always publico states have here too my point is just with there is that is a day of no school uh for least one of the local private schools and that could affect at least one person's attendance um but I don't think that decision should be made uh based on one person um so if the public schools are all good then I'm sure this conflict doesn't really make a difference in this one I don't think so Mark nobody comes so are we saying so February 18th you you I I will I might not be there no no I will likely be there but there was a chance that travel that extended y um but I just uh March 18th I think is good that is the middle of private school spring uh both the 11th and the 18th would be up in the two weeks that a lot of the pr School celebrates are celebrates there's probably no solution to that I would just keep the yeah unless the 25th unless March the 25th but then you're well it's only really a one and it's a short well except for April 8th is being proposed oh yeah the following the following yeah so we're kind of I would keep the 18th and go with the eth yeah I think we're gonna have to do that okay so we'll have to go with April 8th uh May 20th I think it's fine June 17th when you say rfh graduation Sheila is that is that is that the the weekend the weekend no no no I know is that the weekend before or the weekend after no no it's the day of June 1 oh wow so it's a I see I just want to call it out no that's a good point doday let me just double check I didn't realize they did it during the week I thought [Music] it yeah yeah June 17th last day for students and graduation can we do can we do June the 10th I mean I didn't know if it affected anybody I just figured I'd put it down so if it didn't affect no but it I mean look that's a town thing that's a town thing people are going to be there's going to be people attending parties and things like that right like that is the last meeting right before we adopt a new housing some attendees I don't know maybe the crowd well we have the the options would be the 10th or the 24th let's do the 10 City wall what's that date what's the date in June 2025 that the that the the the fair share element has to be adopted when in June 30th 30th it's June 30th so wouldn't I mean wouldn't it make sense to do well I was GNA say June do june the 24th because it gives everybody more time but then that's probably if we need to do anything we're not have time yeah so it earlier okay so we're going to go with June 10th Sha all right July 15 I don't see a problem um August 19th looks good September 16th again I think looks fine October 21st 18th is f and the 16th I think is fine for December soon October 21st is Dali whatever that is it comes up in my calendar as a holiday I think on my calendar I have that on the like I don't know it comes up automatically on so I no idea got it it comes up in my phone automatically so I don't know if that's but I don't know if that's a date that we nobody is off anything I don't think no there's no there's no and yeah I don't think there's anyone here that that observes Dali so got it okay um all right and so we're going to go with for 2026 we're going to go with January 20th that was just a misprint yeah okay well okay so let's just real quick so we've got reorganization on January 21st of 2025 we got February 18th March 18th April 88th May 20th June 10th July 15th August 19th September 16th October 21st November 18th December 16th and reorganization 2026 January 20 all good okay so let's uh I'll I'll motion that oh no okay I'm sorry I was just checking again so need to worry so I will um motion that we accept this calendar as as I just read out and as revised sorry and so these dates I just want to say so these dates I'll just confirm double check against the burrow uh all the the other yeah and then this will get approved in January at the reation meeting yeah but really they ask for it this far in advance mostly because they want to put together the burrow oh yeah no calendar we're good if you don't you know hopefully won't hear for me that we have any conflicts but I think we'll be Mr yes yes yes Mr yes Mr yes yes yes all right so um next item is the is is the master plan uh reexamination and so I think what we wanted to do tonight um was at least put members of the board um I guess we want to put members of the board as sort of the leaders for each of the elements that we were going to that that we're going to be subject to or that we think are going to be subject to re examination but that we have uh members of the board that are uh you know can can start to I guess lay out what for each element what needs to be discussed and and obviously brought forth to the public and and debated that for survey questions or you going to do that we're going to have to do the survey questions within each of the elements right so the so we would have people in charge of each of the or people sponsoring each member of the board sponsoring each of the elements and then using and then then deciding what survey questions need to be um need need to be proferred for for each of the individual elements right because I think you we've got to do it on an element by element basis I think makes sense and so um if we look at the um so the the elements here be helpful have the planner come to the next few meetings to help us with this well I thought this is what we decided the last time Mike was here was was that generally we would have uh a memorable is I I feel like we're kind of going in circles right so I feel like you need each person on the board to take a piece of you know take each of the elements and then have have each of those people decide or at least preliminarily bring to the board what areas in that element need to be addressed or what areas within that element weren't addressed by the prior reexamination so we had the reexamination in 2016 and the idea was that you know we would the for each element what what was done between the re-examination in 2016 and now um to address what was in the reexamination and if all elements had were I'm sorry all items within an element had been addressed since the last reexamination then what new El what new items need to be put in the reexamination to be addressed going forward or perhaps it's just we just accept what's what's in that element now meaning there's nothing else nothing else to do for each of those elements and then for each of the elements like like in order to help determine what needed to be done we would we would release a survey to the public um you know going through each survey asking questions within each element okay I mean that's how I a good right I mean I think that's how I look at it is I I mean does anyone disagree with that at least that construct to get started how many elements we have six elements there is yeah so it's there's where it starts yeah there Community facilities circulation open space Recreation historic preservation land use [Music] um housing renewable energy and then there was a list in your memo um Doug that that had the other there were things that by law needed to be acknowledged or or at least addressed your in your yeah if you've got your last reexamination report it outlines it nicely as well but it's going to be referen with regard to your elements there may not have been some of these topics but major problems and objectives relating to Land Development in the municipality at the time of the adoption of the last reexamination report what was wrong and then and then within those things maybe there was something that was concerning the land use element maybe there wasn't but what were those things these to the extent that such problems and objectives have been reduced or have increased subsequent such St peral problems with municipalities at the shore we need parking we still need parking right but there were elements in in your so so those were the elements right like there we're going to take the major elements that are within the plan right and then there was there's land plan statement of strategy on Smart growth storm resilency and environmental sustainability like so we have to have a statement on or we have to at least have a those no sorry if I confused that those were things that have changed in the law since our last re examination report those items that I highlighted were just were things to changes at the state level there have been considerable changes at the state level since the adoption plan re-examination in AUST of 2016 and I just highlighted those some of these are not necessarily applicable to you I I think I may have mentioned the can's regulation well you've already addressed that right what this was designed to do is here's some other things as you go through here's some changes in legislation right but it says here like for this one it says like any R land use plan element adopted after the effective data must provide a climate change related Hazard vulnerability assessment which shall and so the way I read this is that if you're doing a master plan reexamination after the date that this um after the date that this statute was amended you have to address it in your master plan I agree that that one is applicable and that then that gets down to of the five topics as you get into AB b c d and e that's refence there this this overview informed this member gotta okay um that and that's where C to the extent to which there have been significant changes in assumptions policies and objectives that's also in my way of thinking changes in legislation if you're going to have to do certain specific changes and recommend recommended for the master plan of development regulation if any including underlying objectives policies standards or whether a new plan or regulation should be prepared recommendations of the planning board concerning the incorporation of Redevelopment plans their law land use element master plan Etc so I mean if you and that's how this last re exam was structured also you take a look at your and I think you can use that as an outline you can be in charge of the some you can be charged with the housing element you can be charged with circulation traffic element all all of those and then I would say cross reference to your reexamination report whether through anything specific reference there or was there a problem there has that now been addressed okay then from there what new things in this list of topics I say has to be addressed that's not there in absence that's what I tried to do here um so that yes Whoever has a LD use element we're going to have to touch base with our planner and say okay what are the types of things that we need to consider the land use plan statement of strategy on Smart growth storm resiliency and environmental sustainability so that whoever has a landing plan check that off we need to do something there and we should probably get our our planners to help us what what kinds of things are folks doing what kinds of things do we need to again this is the this is the skeleton we're going to need to do those things and there will be recommendations for based upon what we've already done we've already done some of these things some of our storm management regulations have been informed with regard to those things some some of our environmental sustainability where we have you know our checklist we've already got those things in but I think if we if you focus in Van on men element take a look this is what we have to do let's touch base with our planner what things are happening in master plans or some of the master plans youve already taking a look at what kind of language do we need to do to put the skeleton of it on and then what types of ordinance will come from there that we inform mayor council these are things we need to do right we did so when Mike was here Mike Sullivan was here or was it Mike so when he was here like we determined that the next step would have to be to put different people on the board in charge of different elements to start the construction of the survey and the survey was kind of part one or the starting point of what the what the town what the public felt needed to be addressed in the reexamination clearly there's a statutory and a sort of legal element here of what needs to be addressed that you have to include and that we're going to obviously need planner and legal council help in in drafting but there's also an element of of what you know in each within each section or element of the master plan what what need what does the public feel needs to be addressed and I think we've got to get started on that piece I think soon and so we I kind of feel we've been spinning our Wheels a little bit we've had othere other items on the agenda the last couple of times we basically skipped last meeting and we skipped last meeting right so I kind of feel like I I I mean we've gotta sort of we're going to need members of the board to volunteer to take certain elements of the of the plan and and be you know more or less in charge of of those elements I thought that's how we agreed to proceed right so what are you want to go through the elements of six yeah we have using your term the skeleton what are the what are the six elements that we need to right so if you go I don't have it in it's land use yes and what's it encompassed in land use the current uses of land going to bury and you're going to see that in our master plan you have all those set down so you're going to have so much so much is commercial so much is residential so much is set aside for o SP how do we currently view yeah so that's the zoning essentially the cation of you can have a Zone and have something that's not conforming to the Zone it might be a different use so you want to you want to take a look at those kinds of things you may need to we may need to update our land use map because of that I'm sure our land use map now doesn't have if we're going to do that the overlays that we now have for those kind of things so that's going to be something not needs to be changed with regard to the Eminem with regard to all those other and that includes the codification within there how those if any of those uses need to change in terms of yeah it's going to have some zoning to it do we have new zones that aren't recognized master plan okay but that's not a separate category that's it it melts it melts okay so that's one so it's it's land use housing housing we're I feel like we're doing well housing [Music] circulation facilities utilities utilities is facilities and utilities two separate things yes it is yeah oh was that it the five oh wasn't there we have we have things subcategories for those things circulation plan element um is historic separate or historic is six I don't think historic is a historic will fall under L use probably but probably fall under yeah and I think somebody said renewable energy is that under something else is probably facil historic historic Pres a is is an element it says should include the following master plan elements star preservation is one and conservation Recreation and open space is one also yeah what was that last one FR sorry conservation Recreation and open space conservation I'm happy to to work on luse if uh nobody opposes that than you'reif that thank you I'm up for open space unless somebody else is interested in that so that is actually though conservation Recreation and open space so it's it's h three [Laughter] items Dave I'm Happ me work on that with you that'd be good I would like that with the recreation I'm good with the open space and conservation because I work in the Natural Area but yeah could use some Outlet Recreation great thanks I can do circulation what's up there's facilities utilities and housing yeah and Facilities I feel like there's been a lot done yeah right so I don't know how much you know for facilities right Rich that may be it that may just be you know during our last reexamination report there was a reference to have a new facility for police there was a reference I mean it was police DPW all that being upgraded and so there's probably not much to do you can say for that that but then that will then inform your next decision what kinds of facilities do people want in the community you're still going to have some yeah that would be questions yeah that's want a community center somebody want you know we have a community center I'm there's a phase two to it that we haven't address yet yeah I mean those types of things do you want to have you know again not suggesting but some municipalities Town Hall Town Hall I'll take facilities okay today take a look at again what was said last time what were the problems the check offs are there and then if there if we've solved all those problems what do we think needs to be addressed on a Bas do let's do housing it seems like the affordable housing is an interesting we do I there's gonna be a lot of that too so I was going to suggest that housing just be a board sort of as a board because it's I think there's a lot of Technical and legal maybe not technical but legal aspects to the housing part that is probably something that we should handle as a board with advice ities okay and if the the housing you know that's why I mean I think you should take a look at your master plan take a look at your reexaminations at least certainly your last one I think if we have did we receive the reports this may be more important Sheila did we receive the zoning Board of adjustment reports to the planning board I can't Rec sent I think you did thought I hading meeting I thought I had but I have to go back and quite a few take take a look and see from what the zoning Bo is doing how that may impact your particular element probably more towards housing perhaps towards circular um I I would I would say that and again this may get into more of the flesh but it may be an observation making your reexamination report which is you know there seems to be a consistent theme of variances granted by the Zoning Board of adjustment for this type of issue in housing know we're always granting Varian of that if you're granting variances all the time you may want to make a reference in your master plan of like it's not ideal to govern by variance if if we're always granting the variances right in certain areas then maybe we should say that we want to take a look at these things and by way of example know there municipalities was in they were always granted variances for patios it was in the backyard they were all in a sense you were sealing space from yourself so rather than have everything come for just a patial variance eventually they figured formula and say look if it's going to be so high off the ground doesn't create you know impervious surface and it doesn't encroach greater than so far into your rear yard it's permitted it it cleared up a whole bunch of work for for the for the land use Bo same kinds of things if you're seeing those things granted if not that's fine too Chile you sent did you send that report around I think I saw it it's an annual report that they do but I just realized at the last meeting last week that it's only done through one that was approved last January essentially 2022 so they're behind in getting that complete they're hoping to complete 2023 by the end of this year possibly for approval in January so I may be able to have that for you as well that's what is that that's the a year behind it's basically I think a a summary of the Varian is Grand I see so it's data data that says this so you can you can sit down you sit down and say and qule used to ride Thug Point um Quigley yeah she used to write it yeah but she's not on the Z board anymore yeah and I remember seeing it I I thought You' sent it around if you don't mind that would be great and any of that I have to pull together some information for 2023 so as soon as I have that available I can share that with you even before they put their report together and I and again I leave this to to your thinking just to put out not not to Uno we're doing this process another municipality or they wanted to create and I think we've already done these kinds of things you know opportunities for enhanced participation of business district they wanted to encourage certain type of development realize when we talk about goals and objectives don't you understand how this ties in those are your special reasons when when a someone comes and they're looking for a variance they say okay you know what are the positive criteria where the netive well you know this and you're going to hear things like well this is going to you know it's not going to decrease light ER and density that's more of your special that's more of your goals and objectives if there's something that we decide that we're going to want to encourage you may want to think about putting in something in your goals and objectives again I think you started to see some of that in your reexamination reports but if there's this particular area you know if it's if it's to afford you know to provide opportunities without vertical development for affordable housing maybe we put that in a special so we we clue the those folks in that we're not you know we're going to meet our goals for these kinds of things but we're not particularly excited about increasing density or vertical height of these things but if you have something along those lines you put that in as a special reason that then gives you the ability to turn on to that variances okay it's kind of it's a little little vague in one in one municipality they wanted to encourage you know mixed commercial residential and redevelop and re in a Redevelopment area at the north end of town they put that in as one of their special reasons so then when those projects came in where okay we're going to we're going to completely demo this and what we're going to do in light of your special reasons is we're going to have first floor commercial where the parking is inside you know on on site for all residential you know under the building and you know two floors or three4 whatever was residential above but all residential parking is going to be contained on site so it did several things it began to alleviate some of the parking problems and allowed for the creation of on the commercial end they created or made a recommendation that for the parking underneath you can split it no weekend parking for commercial but weekday you know from TU it's going to be residential such and such after it's it can be mixed so you'll get a bonus for that those are the kinds of things you can begin to start thinking of once we get maybe past the survey stage do we want to change our goals and objectives to encourage the type of development we would like to see all that make sense we're not survey phase is important because I feel like what do we know the count on the last one it was like 700 people or something right or 600 was like I thought it was 900 whatever right 900 people and we have 6,000 residents here how many 8,000 9,000 so right because at the end of the day we're here to help guide these codes to ensure the community is getting what right right so you know if we have a community of 9,000 people and we're getting 900 respondents you know maybe 10% in certain tracking is good but I feel like a lot of people are Miss because what you're going to get is you know old school people that have been here forever that don't want change and want this you're going to get new school people that want this and want this change and there's a huge Middle Point that you're going to miss right so I don't know um I don't know the solution to get more engagement and maybe it's door knocking right something like that because I feel like a lot of people aren't aware of it I know you know I've missed it in towns that I've lived in and so I think that's going to be for us to really look at this as comprehensively as we can it's going to important it's going to be important to drive as much Community participation as we can and I I don't know the solution to that well we talked a while ago about maybe having a couple of open houses um to kind of you know gender interaction with the community besides like just putting the survey out so that's something we should look at I think yeah I what yeah I don't I don't know the answer to it but I think it's a I I think it's a pinch point I think it's a problem that right if we if we really want to hear our community we need to hear more than 900 voices would be my personal opinion not to say we can't do our job without that right if that's what we get but I think we should take it upon ourselves to try to or or or or the professionals that do the surveys and and and put them out to to really be it's a small Titan neck Community there's got to be a way in this community in my view that we can get more participation I don't know what it is but it feels like we should be able to get I think also it's important to make sure people understand the importance of what the process that we're going through because I I've talked to a lot of people over the past few months and a lot of them didn't know what the master plan is and how important of a document it is so I think it's important that there be an educational process as part of this whole um uh Journey that we have we also have a much bigger social media that we had four years ago so that will help us but I think an open house couple of open houses are great that really helped with Le it was it was and that was good for the facilities right have a bunch that had really good turnouts open houses so so you know we have a lot of different reaching people but unfortunately people just don't respond I I know and and that's why I was thinking like you know and I the door knockings and pain in the ass whatever but I can't tell you how many people whether it was you know Boe Council whatever came to my door and I happen to be home and I was like oh you know and you hear them out for a couple minutes so even if it's just as simple as listen there's a survey coming out you know we're we're looking at some changes to the town zoning we need to know what's important to our residents and so would you mind you know just making sure it's on your radar maybe it's not right physically forcing it down the throat but just a it's going to be coming around you can find it on social media there's going to be this open house you can find the survey at this location or if you want to give me your email we'll email to you whatever it is right and and I don't know that that's the solution it's super time consuming but it just feels like whatever we can do to get more voices heard will help us structure it more comprehensive you were you say what I was goingon to say Middletown is going through this right now and what they've done is if you go to their website they have a page dedicated to the master plan they talk about the process they talk about the update they talk about the subcommittee they talk about the Consultants they have they have all the documents in one place so you can click on as a user to see the maps the plans the data very well done um they're doing public workshops they have resources here they talk about the whole process so it it kind of educates the reader like what is this all about and it's pretty in depth but I think it's a model you can look at and say you know what this may work or maybe a smaller scale version may work because it'll even assist us with mapping out the correct route to do this without having to reinvent the wheel yeah you know that's really what it is yeah I also think we I me we should start thinking now about reach out because you know we can't start doing this in like May April June it's yeah so I think when we spoke to you know as I I remember the steps we were going to take right so we now have at least the beginning of of people to to to chare each of the elements so we need to understand or or those people need to go into each of those elements and understand what like where we're strong and where we're weak in terms of what you know what the reexamination suggested be done and what actually has been done and then develop survey questions from that assessment then those survey questions would go to the planner and they can look at those survey questions in the context of I'm sure they've designed you know through their exper experience have designed tons of survey questions and comprehensive surveys for this so we would feed them a you know our initial assessment of of what's been done what was done well what hasn't been done in each of the elements come up with some survey suggestions for that give it to the planner and then have the planner come back with the survey and then critique the survey and then start to and then at that point I think we would then start to engage the public yeah the only thing I'm saying is I mean I wonder if sooner rather than later we should start socializing with the public now that we're probably right like not just this come out the way not just dump survey no no I agree that some rule you have to tell somebody like something seven times or whatever before it like sinks in obviously we're not at the point where the survey is ready to be pushed out but just giving folks a heads up that hey first of all we're undertaking this process generally so they understand what's going on and then here maybe we don't give we don't give them the full-time line but like get key Milestone dates in general in general what's going on with the timeline and the fact that we're planning to issue a survey right we need their feedback and then presuming we're open to hosting open houses let's them know that we're planning those as well so I think just to get it out there to start socializing with people and then so they're prepared when you know when the survey comes out when schedule open houses they'll be hopefully more engaged yeah I agree I I I mean we should probably so I I'll look at the the Middletown site and then we can talk to um uh I think to we talked to Christopher about something out there I've I've seen the Burrows put Facebook posts out you know topical kind of just like an update FYI kind of thing like we could put something I'm envisioning we could just write something right now that basically could go out right like tomorrow and I don't know who writes that for the bur I mean we could we could just say something to the effect of like you know the last night's planning board meeting that we agreed to start you know well the planning board has been working on for months the the master plan reexamination you know this is we have a full year before things are due however we're going to start socializing I don't feel like we should no yeah I think that's it because I'm not I'm certainly not being critical of anybody in town but talked to a lot of people over the last few months and you know he's talking about the master plan the reexamination process and a lot of folks like C aren't familiar with the master plan in with much less that we're undertaking this process so I think there's a real um need to help educate folks in town that you know we're doing this and it's important to everybody that you know we have full engagement as much as much engagement as we can right okay we we can have something uh put out um we have a a memo from Doug that has highlevel Milestones or dates so I feel like we could put something out that says you know the planning board's beginning the process of it's master plan reexamination the reexamination is due in August 2026 or will be approved August 2026 there will be a series of open houses for each of the the planning for each of the planning document elements uh there'll be surveys and other engagement forthcoming please watch this space or this area for for updates yeah as we proceed with the or something to matter of fact yeah and I just think one one one Nuance is to to hopefully be clear on what what the what what the process well not just what the process is like why people should care about the process right what we're doing right anecdotally two two things I could just as you go through your Els have your survey from the last time handy yeah they find again that may help you it's like yeah this is still relevant this you know if nothing else this should be in the this time um and and I leave you with the following thought know the only time people really pay attention to what's in the ordinances or what's in the master plan when something yeah something dramatically impacts them or I think that I think the most populated hearing I attended was the dunadan man where you know some where some people how does this happen well it's a permitted use well how could this be permitted it's like well the master plan did this and then the ordinance is informed that it's it's a permitted you know that's when they find out so if nothing else if you want to understand a lot of folks don't even know that is a master that we have you know we have a circulation element that we you know we do these things you know this is how we take care of it because most folks I think are are are no different than me if my trash is being picked up the mail's getting delivered streets are clear and clean down doing pretty good I'm not coming to one of your meetings not I have enough of them yeah I'm not coming to one of the meetings everything's everything's working fine this is their opportunity to make sure it continues to work fine and and have some input have some meaningful input bring pitchforks to the conservation element your tree resource inventory which I think you know which we adopted as part of the I really think it was a great job you know and and maybe maybe as you do that just to touch base for those folks you know what what are you working on what do you want to see you know do we want to you usually at the Zoning Board of adjustment you know we're doing things we we're increasing 8 C cious as a tradeoff want to make sure we have dry Wells now we're hearing about rain GS now you know what what are these things coming up what are they working on is it something that we may want to at least highlight in in our master plan and and you worried about those folks they're they're like your own legislative Fe right right so uh sorry I was gonna say s our next meeting I think we should have a goal of everybody reporting out kind of where they are in analysis well so so I think I think yeah so so so I think read the the last reexamination understand I think from your point of view what what was accomplished since the last reexamination so there's there were things that were put in in that element in the last reexamination were those items accomplished somewhat accomplished you know fully accomplished and then had you know to your knowledge has anything else Arisen or do you feel anything else has arisen or needs to be addressed based on your experience and and then come up perhaps with with some survey questions for the for the elements um for your element and then we can collate that and send it to the planner and say this is how we've we've started the the process ask for feedback and and I'll get with Christopher York and Josh and look I mean we're gonna have to start I mean there's G to be feeds right like there be like we're going to start spending we're gonna yeah we're going to need to spend some money here obviously to get all this kicked off and have the support that we need to accomplish what needs to be what needs to be accomplished so um and then I will take a look at the website um as recommended by Rich and come up with something to um they even have it's called an ideas wall and you can go on and post a comment and you can say you know it it's and that's on their municipal site this is on the municipal site way for Middletown and really the modern [Music] suggestion you got to put your name that the ideas wall is a platform for Middletown Community to share ideas concerns and priorities for the master plan and how it will shape the Township's future you want to know what do you like about Middletown what would you like to see in the future where do you see the potential for improvement and what can we improve to enhance the vi from SE of Middletown and make it a more livable make it more livable for all community members and then you know people just posed various things on housing and preservation and open space and some of the stream corridors and the creeks and the water and I sent the link to uh Sheila who's got who's got circulation I know we we did a we did a pretty good study not too long ago with the pedestrians and those walkways the act of Transportation Transportation you know use that as resources folks that put that together I think you know again and I'm sure because we did that you know that's not technically part of the master plan I think we we may have done an adoption of that I have to go back and check my notes so it's reference yeah so and how we're doing on that because that was a that was a layout plan of this is what we need to do we need to do later a little bit more um you know very comprehensive I think that's going to help you a great deal yeah Doug any ideas off top of your head on utilities we really kind of dive into that well you know I there so many things that I guess you know with regard to the the credits for the um circulation Vehicles the EV um util something's coming to mind although obviously there's a number of things that touch it with regard to the storm regulations and those types of things I think um yeah I think there really has to be effort everything underground those things I think the DPW did a job sure that in fut you know they had um you know don't know where exactly but you know fact that the fact that I don't we need to make a place I'll look at the previous ream and survey and you know and and and the service by the way our town goes out before uh before we adjourn I'd like to ask uh any any comments on anything we've we've discussed here not tonight not tonight okay soon coming [Laughter] soon um anybody else anyone else on the board is there an update for the um affordable house at Lake do we know what's going on with Eminem oh I sent the I actually sent them a text like a week ago and they respond I I have a contact over there and yeah yeah's I just where we at you know I've been getting some questions to your knowledge they're they're all this is all done and ready to go they just need to they filed for permits them through resolution Appliance and everything for a while for a while yeah they're ready I mean they're ready they're ready we're ready what's what know it's weird isn't it something that any take the utility I maybe I can work with you because it really has to do with infrastructure storm water drainage where are we where where are we looking for stations facilities all that yeah be interesting Sheila one one quick question um is are there is there are there any applications in the pipeline I know we said the two got shifted to zoning but then so outside of that there's just nothing that's in the pipeline right okay well I'll move to adjourn unless anybody else has any comments well I'm sorry I also want to but I just wanted to some of the ideas that we talked about two minutes ago was like you know this might be more of a survey thing like you know does the town want more restaurants with liquor licenses you know are we yes are we yeah like everyone says yes but then but then where does that fit into the re-exam right you got to get you got to get the rec license but didn't didn't something happen like they were they were supposed to change the way you can access issue and get them they're supposed to open up more per Community um there was a huge huge amount of pushback similar to what happened with taxi cap agents you know given the money at stake and I think it's on nice although I don't know I haven't looked into it in a little while yeah that was an initiative by Murphy right he's that yeah yeah and then I think they paused it although I don't know do you do you happen to enough with the yeah with the I know I haven't looked that in a while yeah yeah neither have I and yeah I don't know just a couple of thoughts I spoke to somebody this week um you know in the wake of the whole tree uh tree ordinance um thing somebody suggested that we in the master plan think about U maybe environmental goals as a town like where it's like um air quality maybe um canopy percentage of canopy you know as as a as a as a as a you know as a metric that we can maybe if it's 45% now maybe 55% as our go something that and then uh I think schools and like you know what's the goals of schools here in town I feel like I don't know if that's part of any of our elements or is it well it's Community I think at one level is community facilities I mean you can probably ask and it's a matter of public docum just to to reach out Whoever has this you have what is known as a long range facilities plan that every board of education has to has to put into to the state and it's it's some of its current some of its things going to do in the future and what it does for the state is it informs them as to what things may be coming down the pipeline that may be eligible for know as Rod grants and what's the state's percentage going to be so if you have a long range facilities plan you see what they're planning on I mean I think not too long ago we were talking about how Parton was arranged over at the school and those types of things what do they because I think the last time we did I guess was it a referendum something we took a look at with the schools something I've been here 2019 and I know done they had wanted some things and needed some things to be done and that may follow into a circulation and Facilities you're going to find that a lot of them stail um you can get range facilities plan and touch base for the school you know what are you guys looking to do in the future is there going to be another facility do you more building what are your population you can look at your enrollment numbers historically present you can put all that in there and that's what that long range facilities plan will tell you about what are they looking to do and then you're going to see okay if they're going to be doing that how might that impact our circulation over there you know maybe not are they going to be doing things year round are they going to be having facilities more as a community facility we seeing more schools not necessarily the fair but more schools when they put in a Media Center then have things that are available on Saturday for certain groups to seniors to bring them up to speed on computers and those kinds of things if you're going to be doing that and there's going to be more use of that facility that's going to impact your traffic that's going to impact number other things is the master plan the appropriate place for like if you wanted the schools to seek that blue ribbon designation is that a place for the is that I don't know that that's a master plan issue I know all the schools are are shooting for them I mean you know it just it just means greater recognition and I think in the future it will probably also be a way in which to this is my personal theory has no basis in reality but I think just like so many other things when you get certain designations it may become a putting you a better place in line for certain grants you know if you've got those things you can do that but I don't know that that's appropriate for the okay they are they are separate body corporate in politic to the extent that you know they they run their school district for those things and have their goals I don't think it's something to the master plan but again if they're going to have facilities back that's different okay anybody else anything else I'll move to close second wait till D closes is no thanks everyone yeah we really