Right. Thanks. Uh this is regular meeting of Craven and Zoning Board of Adjustment. Adequate notice of the meeting has been given pursuant to the provisions of the open public meetings act. At the time of the board reorganization in January of this year, the board adopted the regular meeting schedule. Notice of the schedule
was sent to him and published CI3 Park on January 31st, 2025 and the two times in January 23rd, 2025. That notice is also posted on the bulletin board in Burough Hall and has remained continuously posted there as required by the statute. A copy of your notice is and has been available to the public and
is on the file in the office of the burough clerk. Copy your notice has also been sent to those members of the public that have requested such information in accordance with the statute. Adequate notice having been given the board secretary is directed to include this statement in the minutes. Before proceeding with the formal meeting tonight, I would like to say a few words
to the applicants, their experts and the audience about the role and authority of the fair and zoning board of adjustment. The board is a separate and independent municipal legal entity and is limited authority is specifically set forth in burough ordinances and the New Jersey municipal land use law. It is quasi judicial in nature and the members of
the board are unpaid volunteers appointed by mayor and council. The board does not enact the burough use land use laws and regulations. The burough council does that. The zoning board does not enforce the land use laws of the bureau of fair. This is a responsibility of burough code enforcement officer. This board deals with appeals for relief from the
requirements of the bureau's land use laws or the denials by the zoning board officer. An applicant is never entitled to a variance, also known as an exception to the zoning regulations, but must meet specific criteria required by the New Jersey municipal land use law and the fair haven ordinances by satisfying certain required standards
approved. The board has no authority to weigh these requirements. The burden of proof is always upon the applicant to show that he or she is entitled to the specific relief requested. The applicant must prove that a deviation from the regulations will advance the purposes of the ordinance and that the deviation would substantially outweigh any
detriment to his own plan. Variances relate to the future use of the land and are not intended or authorized to remedy temporary or unique personal situations. Roll call, please. Mr. Here, Mr. Dan here. Mr. Ryan
here, Mr. Forte. Dr. Ler here. Mrs. Newman here. Mr. Canella here. Mr. Here, Mr. Leer. Thank you.
All right. Salute the flag. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stand, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
Okay. Um, we have two cases on the meeting on the agenda tonight. The first one is Stump Kizzy. We received a letter from Mr. Akens uh requesting that we
move this to the August meeting. Does she call me right there with that? Yes. Yes. Okay. Do we have anything precluding us from putting in August? No. Okay. Then in accordance to Mr. reading
letter. I will make a motion to move the sty application to the August meeting Friday uh August the 8th. Oh no, sorry. Uh what is it? The 7th meeting? The 1st or the 7th? Yeah.
Okay. Thursday, August 7th. Second. Is it the second? Oh, second. Oh, actually, you know what? That's Mr. Akens. I probably should recuse. Okay, I withdraw my second.
I'll need a second. Mr. Mr. Yes. Mr. Mr. Okay. Um, next up, hopscotch realyoka residence. Mr.
Kovale witnesses. If you think you're going to testify, you want to testify. It's easier if you stand up. Sorry. Raise your right hand. Doesn't matter if you don't testify. Okay.
Truth attorney. Yes. Yes. Yes. Okay. My only requires that you're testifying. State your name clearly loud and spell your vacation purposes.
Council of the council administration. I'd like to find the following exhibit. She has the zoning adjustment application together with the land development application checklist on A2 will be the checklist paper and
statement for granted. A3 will be the zone per denial March 12, 2025. A4 is the gas bill survey. One sheet prepared by SEC survey date is April
21st, 2023. Last July is October 22nd, 2024. A5 plot plan inside engineering revised to June 9, 2025. A6 will be the architectural floor
elevations prepared by short point architecture revised through May 29 2025 and then we will also mark
CB1 CME engineering report dated May 1425 in the shape of Rizzo CB2 the CME engineering report dated June 23rd signature you have
likely to mark the next one is going to be 87 anything else you want to mark let's mark it now so I don't interrupt you When she did it, we're going to refer to medical today's
elevator. There we go. colorations that for me since 83. A10 area with those A10 or
it's A10. 749 A10 is a neighbor neighborhood area 11 neighborhood please I don't know.
There's an area name. Yes. It's always who the last person who can talk very pleasure
associates. State 13 also prepared by your office is again what the rear Thank you, my friend. Not
making up for the next day at 15. Okay, great. Mr. Chair, if I may run through the checklist waver. Yes, please. Thank you. So I have five notives and checklist. The first one is um complete
floor plans of the existing dwelling. You'll hear shortly from the applicant that the existing wall is being removed as part of this application. Second is a key map showing all properties within 200 ft um with the the 200 radius uh
shown as well. So that one I would ask be provided as part of resubmission. Um, and then there's three outside agencies. Mammoth County Planning Board and Mammoth County Health Department. I don't take exception to right now. Freehold STD is also required and I
would ask that that be provided at a later date. Any problem conditions? No, we stipulate those during the hearing. Those conditions may ask for anybody issue. Do we know how big the
existing house is? Do we know how big the existing house is? How many square feet? Okay. Um I don't have an issue. Does anybody have an issue with the waiters? I'll make a motion to grant the wers. Mr. individual will
need a roll call right now. I just want to know if we have any. Got it. No, I don't have an issue. The other two will be conditions of approval. Correct. Mr. Bruno, your report.
Thank you. Mr. Mel show property needed a repairs and what they'd like to do is build a new house on the property. Uh we need we do need to come to lease um
revarian won't plan our testified why we deem their test justified appropriation property um and with me this evening I have a number of witnesses el talk about the properties vision
like there uh and then we'll bring up show you for the house property We'll then bring the engineer up and address all of the comments that and then finally we have
to support justification for the various they're both varants in nature and this board has jurisdiction. So with that said, I'd like to introduce Elder. We've been married for 21 years.
together. We purchased this property in Android because our grandchild basically a sports area knows about the town. We have present live in Chester, New Jersey and horse
county. We've been there for 39 years. We raised our family there. three boys or three men now and we have full arrangement. We've always wandered property underwater and when this came up
to me it was when we first saw the property I felt there was chest on there two and a half acres underwater. We knew that the property that was there, the house that was there needed a lot of repairs and we were okay with
that. So u we purchased the property two years ago in June and we uh started to we engaged our architects and engineers and we looked at the property really
closely and see what can we do. The more we played with the plans and because of the setbacks and because there was a garage, a detached garage, twocar garage
and we wanted a attached garage doing all that and the setbacks were an issue. So they said, "Well, we're going to have to cut a portion of the house, knock down a portion of the house." And we really looked at that. they were
pretty much keeping a quarter to oneird of existing structure. When we looked at that, they didn't make economic sense because they're going to knock down great in a very old house. The way they were built was very sturdy.
It would cost us a lot of money to try to retain the home. So then we went back to the plan to the the plans again and we came up with one structure a new structure and
did assess the knock down the existing structure which we have with it. It pains us to do that because no home and world history and this but
uh you know that house was f feet away from our neighbor who's to the east of us is three stories high. They still have the original blueprints for the house and um the issue with that is u
you know we just needed to bring it to where the setbacks and the other issue is too the garage two property as well. So we figured why not
with two and a half acres build a structure that we could just send to the house good for all neighbors. We're pretty neighborly and our neighbors are here and I can know quite a few of them and everything they've asked me to do I've done because we're all about good
neighbors. We come from a town where they ride the bikes on the street just like that's unbelievable that you see all the kids going to school on their bikes. I love them. I love them. I want to see our grandchildren do that. I want to
fish with them in the nic. So, we basically have come up with a house that we feel for them. Something that we can bring our grandchildren and now our adult sons and daughter-in-laws to the house
and create memories. Maybe not 39 more years. I'm 64 years old. I hope I could do that. But 39 years of Chester was is great and and great memories and we want to create new memories here in Fairhead.
Gone to the town for various things. Never saw people so friendly and you should be proud of that because we go to a lot of towns and people don't treat you the way we get treated here in that area. So we're looking forward to living
here. We're not selling the house. We're going to be here for a long time as long as I'm alive as sick. So, uh, we want to be your neighbors and we hope that we
can get our plan through and we're here to answer any questions that you want, but we're here to stay. We're going to make our moves here. 39 years in Chester. We don't b we don't buy a spread. be and 46 years with no
life. I don't bounce around. So, thank you. Thank Mr. I just have one question. So, as I understand it, there's two lots. The first lot is where the house kind of sits and the second lot is I guess inland.
It's it's two lots. 2.5 acres is the land and then we have 1.08 acres which is the riparian. So, the 1.8 the second lot.1 that's the repairing yes got it and we we'll get into that detail that was a comment in the review
and we'll respond to that directly okay fine as soon as I was like I asked a question make sure I heard you right said that house is in the garage yes and at this point is it just stabilize it yes done any more
no we're waiting to hopefully start you pull oh no there was a best to the house. We spent over $25,000 immediately. There were quite a few things when we just purchased the house and it was
leaking windows, doors needed a lot. As a matter of fact, what we did after the humanity come in and we donated whatever we could to them. As a matter of fact, we can use let the uh title department
use our house for training and red mag. I'd like to get into the design of the home and obviously engineering. So we are here for some variances but I would note that the existing house of the property had multipleities that were so
at the end of the day property more with the new on the existing we'reing a sideyard setback for the principal house but that's we're correcting sideyard setback for
the accessory building uh this floor area everything and the height of the old building is 38.4 remain existing over there. It's not there already.
Correct. Correct. Just noting that aspect is there and check that were correct. Um the variances that we do need we need maximum floor area what was existing before. Uh we are confined to the floor
area ratio by quite a bit. Uh but you do have a limit on how big the house is going to be to testify as justification for that. Uh there's mod modest for the height of the accessory building 50
more and there's really design features involved why that makes sense not to have to allow the extra height. Uh there's a pool proposed on the property. You need a 4ft fence uh surrounding the pool. This technically is in the front yard part of this fence and accordingly
we need from that and then uh the garage is allowed up to four cars. I believe we're more than we last and three as well. Right. So, we're looking for relief fun for that. So, let let us I'm going to
introduce the architect. Let's show you the home that we've designed and uh we'll talk about the features and improvements and then we can get into any questions you have to talk about all the engineering issues.
All right. Um Justin you want to come up and introduce yourself and you were previously deployed so Justin cal architecture yes so just one question have you appeared
before this board before you aware of the way that we do measurements in this town we're a little bit different than than other preparations you've been credentials from the state of New Jersey from University of Philadelphia shortly
test uh you were primarily the talk a little about property and how you have a diet. Sure. I mean this is a amazing property. It's a very rare property that it's 2
and a half acres on the river. It's got a nice well commanding excellent view of the river James. Um currently currently previously was a threetory uh proper
building 1900s. It is threetory structure and it's my previous maximum. There was also my existing garage which in addition had another nonprofit. All right. And so when you when you got
to the property, how did you decry the blocks to the house? main. So most of the take advantage of the views that are you know need to this property. Um we have the garage and
swport are inland of the property and they're actually kind of creating a semi. So as to minimize the um sight lines towards the garage there's nothing
you know to the street. So there was some significant mass project um with the main house maximum. Um the proposed sports building
is actually this building here. It's again a compliant position on the property um focus you know kind of creating sports this year uh sports court will be for the purpose of playing football sports indoors which is one of the
reasons why we ended up um itself but for the measurement calculations for create sequence spaces here.
What is that? 15.9. Yes. You Right. Excuse me. Forward to get back up. My second garage here take advantage of
the view. So would it be possible? Would it be possible to do that? You're saying this forward back towards um I mean theoretically we probably
could I don't know if there would be moving further special. You could have you could have that corner that that uh what corner is that? I don't even know. The western southwestern corner would you have you
may have problems. I think you're very tight. No, keep going back. I think you're very tight to the side. Point is the special river. So the less impact
follow us have to get permit that's applied for that. Uh so you can move the house it forming location that structure for the west that's the
that I was pointing out that's the garage that structure that I pointed out the corner is right on the line that's the garage So let's get through first and then we go back.
But let's talk about creating character chainsaw. moving out by the early unique features that you see that are present
style itself. We are using the videos um mostly to create specific accent basically the home character and you know all that traditional is a lot of
material typical platform science levels. Um some elements on as well as I keep mentioning found that
roof start. We we did things that uh business that strategic making the home seem more interesting expect. Um just a little I think the the garage
is an issue with us because there's four part three parts. The garage to me is dead in a lot of mass. I I'm I'm sorry. I have not seen 8,000 square foot of house here. That's why I'm just That's the old house. The new house is Jordan.
Yeah. Can you please explain? We spent a lot obviously big. You just walk through different floors in the house from the seller to the attic. What counts as floor area? Um and then we'll kind of go from there. Yeah. the volume
much bigger than it actually is. Let's talk about that as much detail. part of the original plan. This is a miss. And
the elevation that we have that showcasation. This is the right side. Yes. And there we want to point out attempt anything in second floor area.
Um it's not a 22 story space about 14 15 ft and the composition comes down from the main bridge volume to create a long space right well that's exactly the point of
why we measure the way we do it is to minimize the speed I don't care what you what does it look like too. The point in the garage space and couple are
staff. So in this world about 2,487 square ft. um to the actual compatible useful first and second floor uh would be
9,340 just just that sense just for just for clarity. So we're in R30 where the max is 5200 and even if we upload to R40 which you can't do because you're asking for additional the max is still 7,000 just under 7,000. So, we're still
considerably above the max for the next zone above it. Can I just say real quick, too, the existing house that's been removed. Um, the testimony was at about 8,000 and change square feet. That's not something that I actually looked at. It's all verified. So, just take their, you know,
testimony for that, but it's not I I can't confirm if it's Yeah, we don't know how. Um, now, Mr. Cer, you have a a seller, correct? On the basement. seller square. Did you intentionally thrive like a
seller um which is left in floor elevation? Yes. Then you have an attic which would be considered a half story. You have a fixed staircase. Correct. That's correct. And then you did the calculations for um the attic compared to the second floor
below it. And it's it's less than a third. Um, so that's a half story not counting towards floor area. And then you mentioned it, the garage, it's vated, so there's no actual second floor, but uh the height of it is over
20 ft. So that entire area didn't count as the first floor garage, but it counted the second floor. There's potential for that potential space. And then the accessory structure um which is 1,344
ft that's been included as in the calculation as well. So in total it's the score plus the first floor plus those four quarters how much do we do we pull out of that 1500 1.
Okay. I know the house alone 79696. So that is just very exciting floor removing what vaulted ceiling vaulted garage that's that is less than the 8,841
that was previously existing. I guess are we counting the we counting the seller in the square? No, we're not. So they and so did they count the elements? They did not through a combination their engineer and their architect. They provided the average existing grade and
then their their finished floor elevation which can exceed 30 inches is right on the money 30 in. Did they count? No. Okay. So, so we have 11,000 square feet
and 11,000 plus not counting the attic, not counting. Correct. It's the first floor, second floor with all the vaulted areas and then the accessories. Dorian, could you speak to the upsizing uh concept? Would this project would
have been eligible for upsizing were not for a couple of the variances obvious? Yeah. So, when we received the application, we didn't really consider upsizing because the general idea is if you're coming to this board, um you need some type of bearings typically. Um and
then once you have that, you're no longer qualified for the F7 criteria. So you can look at the next one up and pick and choose. Okay, I qualify for this this portion of the R40 and revert back to 30 for this criteria. So the fact that the R over anything in this case
area alone that would uh that would not permit them to even consider using Gotcha. But they could have met the setbacks and all the other requirements obviously that Yeah. So if they qualify or were compliant with everything in the R40 floor area, all the setbacks, everything
in the B chart, then they could have went to the zoning office and bypass this port all together. And the town would have been happy then to give them what is it 60 how many square feet? 6,900. 6,900. Okay. Sorry to keep sticking on that but is
cons I mean it's considerable and I know it's a big lot but it is a considerable increase over hey what's in the R30 it's considerable increase over over what's in the R40 by testimony support we hear your concerns let us get through
our testimony justified request can I can I ask two more questions quickly one of the variances which is mentioned is the garage. It's it's a garage sees three vehicles. In this case, there's four garage doors. So, I think at a minimum
that there's four cars. Um, however, there is pretty good depth to it and it's fault. So, do you have any idea to how many cars you anticipate actually being in the garage so we can better identify the significance of the relief? Um, I
was under the question that it's going to be, you know, four four ways. The owner has historical RC and then and then the accessory sport. It has what? Two garage.
Yeah. Three garage doors. You speak to them there. They're not really to brush like a carousel at um it's really air to the space. It's going to be a sports court. So I mean I have a few concerns with
that and like to kind of feel over into your engineers testimony as well. So if you want to hold off on answer questions you can. Yeah. From a design point just I'm trying to interrupt on that. I know it's a sports court in a garage. To the layman, to the naked eye, it looks like
two garages. Um, if anything can be done to mitigate that look, it would be appreciated. In my opinion, I don't know if board feels that way, but that's something that that kind of stuck out at me. I'm like, well, you have two garages. Oh, no, that's sports. These
two garage are not something that height is for the interior of the garage. No, it needs it. Yeah. So, I have a number of things on the sports court. You have three garage
doors in the front. There's a like a mandor inside. I don't see a an entrance quite for that. Is it is that intended to be the primary entrance? Um, yes. Um, regarding the garage doors, I am concerned with just the general noise
that they might be open um, a lot during the playing pickle ball. I'll get what the initial intent is for it. Um, now I know you comply with the accessory structure setback for the building. However, there the ordinance does have a tennis and like recreational light
inspection. Um, I think that contemplates more outdoor tennis. Um, but there is a requirement for 35 ft setback to side to the side property land. So, I would ask that you take a look at that and see if you can comply with shifting it further into your
property and applying the 35 way your neighbor whose house their side is is kind of close to where the structure is. Um, so I brought everything. Um I also asked that you look at like
landscaping around it too this building like evergreen trees along the property line. Um and obviously we're talking about sports courts tonight but that's that recommended toward any group we consider
a condition that limit limits it to this type of use. That way it can work into like use which would be a whole another application we're going to be that as as far as or in addition to cars as well.
So this morph into a function garage and this is a sports court. So that's it from sports court I think for now. Um, have you considered any like AC units or
generators yet under accessory? Was a question for the property? Yes. So they they follow accessories. I don't think I've seen them yet, but they need to show them at some point and
the setbacks tend to be that probably considered application that is the application to be approved. I think that's all I have. Thank you.
Anybody have more any more questions from the architect? No. Thank you. to the chair for the architect. Your understanding of the use of the upper level up
I recently been fixed my whole finish. You say the basement upstairs. That's what I'm So there is bathroom. So there's no space. Jordan, how much of that is under over the seven foot? Do we know? Yeah,
it's actually on. So, so the attic is calculated at 126 or clarified by my office and the second floor is 5,94,78. The point the point being that and like
I said about you know considering about the size the cellar at 4,000 ft is not planned this little space I'm assuming it's probably 90 foot ceiling height in the basement. Okay. The attic of another 5900t plus of that is also not planned.
So there's considerable space and we just we recently um updated ordinances to to allow these as developers to spaces in in an effort to give people a little bit more room and keep this the uh house uh within reason for for this.
Um so there is a concern because this extra space is already given and then we're looking at 11,000 working on top of that if you understand. If I could jump on that too, Pete. So you had the exhibit up there before. They have a grade out areas that
count towards the 11,000 plus square feet but aren't liable. But as Pete said, they do add mass to the structure. Can you speak to what your design how would be impacted if you tried to get those areas out so it wouldn't add to
the 11,000 given some of that car? You have to really make it so I think that it's a beautiful design. It's a a special lot. It's a crown jewel of our town. There's no question about it. But I just had a lot of concerns about it
size. It is considerable. I do want to ask Mr. Whistle, while you're still here, can can we just speak because in my head I can't wrap myself around some of the gone back and forth about the lots and the combining the lots and this and that. So they're telling me that the lot
the lot the dry land lot and 12.01 or the 12.01 lot is totally on on is it totally made up their apparent? Yes. So, so that point the repairarian line is shown on the survey. Yeah, I'm having a little trouble seeing
it because I'm a little what I did when I worked with the engineers, we pretty much calculated the lot area for the purposes of lot area and the whole coverage calculations is to use the face of the polar. So, it's everything behind that,
right? And and I appreciate that. Is the is that area contained in lot 12.0 or is that a combination of 12.0 and 12.0? Looks like 12.01 is uh
about 60 feet from the pulpit. Okay. So 12.01 is a very small portion of that is on dry land. Is that what you're saying? So all 12.01 is all 12.1 is Oh okay.
So the other lot which is 12 a portion of that about 60 ft out. So this was pretty long. Yeah. And are they Maybe porch area and there's another one in the office.
There is a final artist stash. Finally, repeat. Five. Well, that's going to be super will say more questions back to the chair. Use of the cellar.
So use of the cellar cell storage. That's that's that's the way. Okay. So there's no facility down there. There's no labor access. between the attached garage and the
principal structure. Do I have access on the lower? Is there any access in the area to ceiling to the upper floor the
courts or the courts 15 ft is the ent 15 11 pressure what we need the 114 in accomplishing
you know it's has to serve the purpose there trying to realize we facilitate the activity we have the rap pitch the roof size
which is as close to the lowest pitch we can do that It's based upon what standard based upon what standard are you saying that you couldn't accomplish that activity that that's what I'm trying to
get I'm trying to help a question on top of that too if this if this sports court gets built the way it's currently shown you were to go there and take a tape measure measure from the ground to the top what would that dimension
it would be just less than about 1410 change. So did you intentionally design try to comply with that? Yes. And then it ended up being results of the pre-brading etc. measuring what starts at the average
existing grade development is. So does the the yeah does the pipe start essentially below ground because that's where existing area is but you're you're bringing it up less than foot that's not underground.
So it's 15 and a quarter to the ridge line 151. Yes. From the existing measuring point which is the pre-existing average grade the average property before
you just now that there's nothing there what I have now that nothing is there. That's what I'm trying to get to. I'm trying to trying to figure out based
upon you demo at this point. We want structure on top of that that ridge line is going to be 15 ft 11 in in what standard are you using
justify that height as opposed to you're saying the activity we're trying to understand what you're referencing that says the additional just shy of additional foot is that force
I didn't show the rest of the building. So, you're not influenced. That's a direct answer to my question. You are not the question to the activity. His
original response from the professor was we need that additional quarter to the nature of the activity along with the inside of the structure. I think he answered two things. He said
the juice and in order to have Let's stop there. Okay. Based upon what standard are you saying the requires higher? What is the standard you're referring to? Is there a standard says
pickle balls got to be this tall? I mean not not usually because they're outside. Is there a standard you refer to that say it has to be that high standard? Just based on the average
residentiality, there's ceilings by our work starting to measure and in addition to the type of structure being you have two correct to the best of your knowledge conforming
to the state of your model. I see you back under right that's okay perhaps on your question maybe your engineer can speak to why you're creating the elevation there was that lack from today's elevation um you would
not be seeing any so why one reason gra but actually looks like it's a little more about that it's coming out help me understand If we're measuring from the old grade,
they're 16 feet. Let's roll 16 from the old grade and the new grade is a foot higher. What the reality of it is it's only going to measure 50, right? When it's built. Yes. When it's built from from the new grade. From the new grade. Measure then it would be less
from today's grade. So it's purely a function of the regrading that's causing this. That's correct. Okay. Go back to no question. Sure. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Jennifer White. Civil engineer. Thank you very much. Yes. experience early for years about testified with Doris Cre.
Ranch and you were accepted as civilian 194. All right. Um, let's get into the technical detail out of the way so we have the full record. uh describe the
subject. Uh the project is located at road in the burrow of it's located at 12 point one in block uh 78. Um the upliftic area of
the property contains 17,46 square ft. The total lot area um plot 12 is 110,74 and 12.01
and just just for clarification what 121 12.01 is an area that is entirely uh current use of the property. The current use of the single previously
existing single family home single family home. Uh the property is located in the R30 district and it is and what structures are currently on the
property. What was previously before the single family home? And how do you access the property? It's asked by a private road that is accessed from road
and we heard the the architect talk about the the home but from an engineering perspective could you describe a little the we are proposing a half story with a pool patio detached court
building half garage and walkways a portion of the driveway and nearly and the variance we're seeking variance for max floor
area 1127 um max accessory structure height where we're 15 and we're building 15.9 ft max fence he site in the front yard with the river. We're proposing 48 inch fence
where a 32 fence where a 42 inch fence is allowed. Um and next private uh garage space where we're allowing four
and bedrooms and bedrooms as well. four bedrooms, eight bathrooms. Uh can you describe the surrounding? All uses surrounding property are residential and uh the property is completely
surrounded by all and you're familiar with the school district. Sorry. um explain for us the calculation to the lot area. So our lot area is calculated from the
headland. So that is why we're using the area 17,000 ft or um the floor areas measured from exterior of the building walls including
stairwell ceilings um not include the attic or the floor or the garage Um so it's just the first floor and the second floor
building the floor area by the area the oven area what is from land it is ratio And what did that what does that kind of speak to the size of the home size
that is allowed by well right um you heard some questions about exos. Explain that a little bit. Why do we
have to raise um we we're raising the grades just because we don't want the house sitting in the bowl. We want it just a little bit higher. We're not raising the grade that much. It's just kind of more leveling out the new space of the house
taking up. So it's maybe yes we're we're keeping um the general where we're not neighbors currently the house that is at the
highest point of the property and it gra towards the river and towards sweet and we're keeping that pattern. Would you take her? Yes, the fire. While we're on that point, um Mr. Kinsula brought up a point about the
proximity to the to the waterfront and to the leading edge. Um there's also the let's talk about soil erosion because we're under the just under the limit of disturbance of an acre, but for this purpose I personally I would like to see it treated as if it were over an acre. I
mean what is is there is there a remediation plan? What is your plan for the water? Run off is a big issue especially being so close to the river like you know what kind of place they say we're dry off that run off or one in of
rain over the roof area that's the minimum supply. So all the runoff will be uh directed into an underground system which will infiltrate and then fills up it will spill over the downs and directed
towards the front of the house and is that all the roof areas on the sports court area too as well as the garage and thank you confirm the chin
Um they the board fee and the court fee. Uh and the question was raised by a discrepancy between the zoning fines charge in your report and one on the site and side. Yes.
What what is what is it? Um the contract that a lot better. Um, our combined size, do you just agree that other than the laws that generally what's in my letter
is is true. Um obviously the relief has been outlined at this point and that's just a general comment I have. So as part of any approval I just want to make sure that one of the final things we do is make sure that we have right that is from measured from
and the front yard. How did you um typically with construction home the average of all within 200 ft. If the house faces the same way as your house,
compared to on road, then less than 200. Yeah. And the uh the uh combined sideyard setback, how do you regard that?
Uh combined sideyard setback for each whole 5 ft of block that your law exceeds. You can multiply that number by 1.5 ft
and that is how you get your required side. So we have our width is 205 ft. We're required 125 ft. So we're over by 80 ft which is
16 5T 16.4 that you had. Yes. Um does it routinely flood at high? I don't believe so. Now we're out of zone I think. Um it the preliminary is
going to be 87. Our uh finished floor of our house is way above that cut where the buff is. So our entire proposed pool
is all located outside of the M. So how high is the pool above? On that note, when you talk about the bluff, how high is the bluff off the beach? Uh Paul, is it accessible from the water?
There's some people we don't know our elevation. So that could be above blood elevation and the top of elevation is around yes what was that elevation
the elevation of the pool was 23.71 and the elevation of the top of the bluff is about Um, is there any access to that there? Obviously, there's access down the block to that dock, right? Yes, they have.
Stairs. Is there a gate there? Will there be? Um, one other thing you mentioned, I don't know if it's about the fence. Um, can you explain that uh request for relief on a fence site? What is required? What's requested and why is it requested?
So, um, when you have a about to it. Correct. Yeah. So in you're allowed 42in fence in the front yard and 42in fence of the river. So you have to
but you don't. So did you consider situation where you can still have defense and you also have We did uh the fence is decorative you know it's not a significant high fence
compliant that was a major concern we consider that but we thought aesthetically this was better so there's a fence today I believe at least there is that many of that remaining or the
defenses remain This is the additional so that's going to be I'm just trying I can't quite visualize where where does the me what's the height of that and then where where
you can do it on the on the aerial fence is here that's a proposed yes where exist I don't think that there was a rear yard on the river when I was there. We're also
the sides are existing. Yes. Yes. Okay. It's going to match materials. So the fence between the pool and the river is new. Yes. And that's what you want at 42. 42.
Is the pool completely fenced in? Exactly. A majority of the fence along the river flies. It's well beyond 50 ft and then once you get to the east side, it bends in. I'm not really sure why. Can you
explain why you push it in and and is there any reason why you can't just pull it out to comply? I was hearing um that was I believe that was made just to lock off the steps down to the Yeah, but even the steps themselves are over 50 feet. So where it comes into the
steps, I'm sure you have a gate there or something that's over 50 feet, maybe like 51. So that implies then just east of that it gets even closer to the river. If you just kept that as a straight line,
you would be at least compared to construction. Is it open? Is it can you singular or does it that job for me. Yeah, because at the stairs it does
and then it it bends closer to the pool comp needs to be self. So at the front you have a gauge at the drive. Is that intended to be closed at all times or is that just an old thing?
What's the idea? Um, I think it's open now, but that'll be So, so when it's all built, the the driveway gate, it will be closed. Okay.
Pointed out some. Yes. Um we need for plans so that he can provide all
so whatever you Yeah, I mean you have you have like maps which show and we requested wsation county planning board soil and department we're not located
county planning board and health department don't have jurisdiction um and we will and soil and I've been the publication uh recent res I would say that it applies to comply
with Uh, a couple of questions. Mr. Rizzo had correct. Yes. Uh, and they're not contemplated to be solid. Not at this time. They're not contemplated to solid.
Why not? Well, I think it's I think it's not unusual when you have a repairing branded separately, but they're under common ownership. So essentially they're they're merged already. Can we just point that? Um if you were insistent on it, we could
I mean I think it's something that we've come across in the past. Very common with um especially with lots of this size in somewhat proximity. It came up about 15 years ago here. Um that we
would really consider strong that they be combined into one lot. Also also um a restriction on subdivision of the lot uh we could do that would be requested um and I can give you
some background on it. There's a significant development not too far from there in the past that was approved and then subsequently some of it and it kind of torpedoed some of the goodwill that you know that we had and we want to make sure that we've got a significant property. It's two and a half slash plus
acres and we'd like to keep it as as it is. But the one lot is important. Understand, but then I don't see the reason why you wouldn't just consolidate. Well, we we'll take that consideration. Um we will ask at the end if that can be a provision. So
yeah, you need time to talk about that. We'll we'll talk about that. But I I just I I see repairing lots separately designated all the time. It's that's more common than having it part of your life. So we we'll talk about that if
that's important to you. There's there are there's there you know what given the opportunity to do it because these don't come up that often when you have the situation given opportunity to memorialize I think we would like that. Yeah. I just I just want to check make sure there's no issues that arise from
that with the D and otherwise. So provided that's okay. We're not going to create any concerns because of of the repairing grant that we would consider shortly. Um any um existing trees or landscaping?
Yeah, let's get to that next. What trees are landscaping? There's there are three trees and others and it doesn't play.
Okay. So, you'll permit replacement plan, I'm assuming. We're going to add more trees. Excellent. We'll show you that when we get there. Can you confirm no pardon?
No, you repeat that. No. Okay. And would uh our client be willing to restrict this sports report from residential use? Yes. And would you restrict it for parking
too? If that's important to you. Yes. Yeah. People have a lot of cars in the garage. But well, there's an ordinance on it. So again, I get it. I get it. We don't write the ordinance. We're just
try to maintain it. What's the proposed material? So you're going to have stone driveway to get it in. And then once you get to where you're showing it, it's going to bend in the driveway, you're going to transition to a harder material. They're asking.
Yes. Sorry. that courtyard that you're talking about. That's what you're Yes. So, pretty much on that image there, I was actually going to the other one. The left one.
No, not that. What's the area of the gray area? We'll show you the exact number but Mr. Can I ask same question on the driveways? What is this circular feature
that's close to the garage and it's not going to prohibit movement of vehicles? We're going to show you that in our land. From an engineering standpoint, is it going to like the vehicles from back to you know? No. Um, it's a good distance from the
garage doors. There's a piece of surprises. What is it? What is it? Yeah, it's just the landscaping. Okay, good. No, I think I think that was Are you good? Yeah.
All right. Um, we talked about AC generator. Just confirm generator location. This is the AC location and that's equal coverage. Uh will res be required only covered
bag? No less than 30 in and we talked about vehicle storage. Yes. um storm water manage I know it's important
summarize the existing and proposed storm water manage um existing well previously existing house was high water drains towards the river towards the dry road um we're
keeping that general pattern we're not direct any to the neighbors and all the Um, can I stop you there really quick? Sure. Merry brought this up and I just want to reiterate it. Um, I know you know this as an engineer. I hope client
understands this, but um, the current disturbance is shown as N96 acres for the total property. Obviously, the properties are much larger than that. The threshold for major development is one acre. um that obviously change in
the future or the bur change that but today it's it's one year and we don't talk about this that much because we don't see propert but um any future disturbance in addition to this project that goes over it which is more than 100
square feet triggers the the major development requirements and and what are those my education I'm not sure what they are what what's the difference between what you what we're used to seeing so right now we generally for a drywall. Um there's not all that much calculation
that goes into it and we want to make sure that the water is draining away from the house away from other properties is ultimately getting to the collection. Just major development is a lot more intense and involved. You're going to have basins probably more than
one. Um you have to show that you're getting reductions which is you're taking your existing runoff and you're reducing it by a set amount for help. um you need to find like water quality and then you need to recharge your server.
So there's a lot that goes into it. It's um something to keep in mind if you're going to do any more future. So it's not true for tonight, but I want to make sure that it gets caught in the future. So I ask that any approval there be a condition that just outlines that with this project they're disturbing N96
acres. Um, and that way it's it's passed forward and and with any other permits that are hopefully this is the area. It does. Yeah. There's a erosion sheet and how much
service we'll need a certification letter soil and we've already submitted third permit um submitted April 25th being complete on 21st and our 90day sub deadline is July 28th
but we don't No, we're comparable. Yes. Um, couple additional questions the engineer had. Explain the two ridge elevation on the sports board
elevations. So that is the top ridge elevation. Um so that just is the measurement from the same average of the collection.
Uh how will we find two separation requires seasonal demonstrate? We have um so far report that I will submit to the town um that shows that the groundwater elevation is
about 17 ft below um grade which puts the groundwater elevation at about five and our basement is going to have an elevation of 14.52. So we need that to put separation
and then similarly will you provide a soil lock your dry well to show that nutrition and um it's separation into the seed line. Yes. And then just really will you comply with the rest of the tech comments? I don't see anything talk about. Yes.
Yeah. I just I just got a couple more. Bear with me one second. Uh we talked about the fence, talked about height and exterior exterior door location and material for the drive.
Yes. Um, what size material for the solo? Could we jump back to the air conditioning units and the generator? Did you point to the sports court as the location for the generator and and the air conditioning units or did I
misunderstood? So so all the finishing units for the whole house are going to be over by the sports court. Yes. And what's and are you me are those setbacks measured from the units or are we measuring from the sports court
itself? It's from the units and accessory structures. The accessory set is 10 feet. So, but I was just figuring you would have air conditioning units for that main house adjacent to the house. Otherwise, you're going to have to have lines the the line
sets running from behind the sports court all the way back to the main house. I'm not an HBAC uh engineer obviously, but I've never seen that. That's an awful one. Is it common? No, but I've seen before.
Looks pretty far to me. All right. So, that's that basically saying paragraph 68. Yeah, some of them require planification you'll do. We'll do all of them for sure.
We're here to be cooperative. Um, so we have two more witnesses. Um, our landscape design. Uh we show you the landscape plan. Um and then we have our our planner
who's going to testify support grande. So I'll do the plan I'll do the first there's one more thing I want to is the the scoreboard. You you shift that a little closer to the house that with the
or wants a tennis court. So what would that entail? So it's about 20 22. Yeah, it's 35. So you're adding about less than 13 feet to it. You have plenty of room in the driveway. Get it further away from the the neighbor. you see
their house on your plan. So that's literally right in a line for their house. Um my concern here is that we have these garage doors which open and that's especially with the pickle ball. That's a loud annoying noise. We'll take a look at that at some point
tonight. And then I would recommend the landscape too because the ordinance kind of plays the lighting and I want to make sure we're screaming at mutual aspects. Just just to dotail that question, if you were to do that
already, I would ask would you agree that the existing grade has been changed in this area? Yes, the existing rate. And what would that um so
you don't want your house low? So we raise the you don't want your house, you don't want your house sitting on lower grade than the surrounding areas. And you don't want large people to get into any structure. So we raised the grade slightly to uh pitch the driveway
out towards the uh grass area in front of the house. So that's so we wanted the sport and about the same elevation. So you raise the elevation there very slightly about and and pitch
the pitch it pitch the drive no we should be able to move to the house yes we should we would be able to but had you not changed those you would not need the bearings would be
sports. Correct. But that would put the that put in jeopardy side. Yes. By moving the by moving the sports court towards the house. Do we change the height at all?
The answer is yes. Um it's not an easy calculation we can do right now unfortunately because they're pretty much overlay. Yeah, that's true of a good point. I I we brought this up with the ridge line. You see the two coupas are conforming, but don't we measure to
the top of the Koopa? No, you're allowed to have additional structure on top of the non measure to the ridge and then you add bond with the Is that okay? Same like same measure to the bridge and
then ridge and then they give me to the cuc that's the way in which we done it in the past height was a separate statute for how high
the height of the structure separate from that it says that small structure build on top really cannot exceed certain size but it doesn't say they're not
on top but I mean what part of the structure doesn't say it's not we discuss that no I don't recall you know say that your hoopa can't be
larger than a certain size it doesn't say that you don't measure to the top of the hoopa is the part of the structure. That's all I'm saying. So, I don't understand why we're not I mean, it's it's it's a it's a it's a feature that's
typically farmed out. So, we we'll look at that. I'm going to defer to Mr. Vizo on that if that's the way we've done it. And I'll go with that, but we're going to be We'll take a look at it after afterwards. Maybe we need to clean it
up. Um, so we don't know what the new height would be if we pull the if we pull this fourth court close to the height. I think it's fair that we should calculate it, but it's it's almost a downhill. And how much how many feet have we
gained in setback by moving going from 22.75 to 35. So it's 22. It's considerable and I think I think the movement will uh be an improvement to the name. Mr.
Taylor has it. I think an extra 10 12 ft is ready. Okay. Any more, Miss White? Any questions? Board members, any questions, Miss White? Thank you. Let's uh plan
forward plan. My name is Robert. My last name is E H L E N. It's okay. Actually, if my brother is probably the best way to pronounce it is
alen. So think of that. It's good. um licensed health in the state of I since 2008 and for
the city of New Jersey and currently act. Thank you. Thank you. All right, let's let's let's get some background out of the way and then you can get into the current zone is our and you're familiar with the
requirements. And what did you do uh in preparation? So I I visited the site and review the J's master planes. I reviewed the application and this is I also a lot of
times I try not to and there was testimony earlier that 3.56 how does that reconcile the art? So um the R30,000
square feet if we use the upland area property which is about 107,000 square ft that's three three and a half times the minimum required. So it is a very large oversized
if you were to look at the R40 district which is 40,000 square foot we're just two and a half times size that set as well. So this is this is an extremely oversized parcel within the community. Um
if I so yeah uh there's a few ways that I I would like to look at this. Uh the first one is being the lot size. Um if this was in for the R40
district comparing it to a larger one, uh where a 6,900 ft home would be fitted. If this lot were to be subdivid subdivided, we'd be fitted 13,800
square ft of area. So we're below what would be anticipated even in one of your larger districts for this lot to be subdivided. Similarly to 30,000 square ft 3 and a half and minimum
area sorry maximum 5,8 then three different homes would be permitted and they would be able to a total of 15,000 square ft. It's sort of fun to know.
So this is a local private program. Um there isn't a direct program but it's a comparison but just relating to the lot area what your standards are considering size. So
proportionately the homes I just proposed is in scale with the size of property. Can I just stop you there for a second and then I'll interject. Um the way that and I don't believe it appeared before this board before but the way that we have designed this in
the many years since we brought the FAR and the cap into play when they work together is that the cap is there to address an anomaly such as this where you have such an oversized piece of land in the zone. So
if we look at the lot to the west it is not two and a half acres. We'll get a lot easers and we try to have to keep that's why we have the cap in addition to the ratio to keep things within scale. Sure. This is marked into
the neighborhood area. Can you how do you get this? Yes. So, this is an area of the neighborhood specifically focusing on the horse properties. Our property is outlined in yellow. So I wanted to bring this to
your Just so you can see the development filters, the homes along this portion of the community. Um so uh the lot to the to the west lot 11 is
to the left to the left. Um, so let me I looked at your critical tax records. Comparing at this address was a little bit difficult because both ceilings and dedarer
uh how each one was calc. So what you mean by that is size of the home on the tax record may not be yes. So instead I looked at the first floor of the structure where the structure immediately adjacent. So to the west um
lot 11 the first floor of that home contains 5,470 square ft. Um I did look at block 11.01 which is the one furthest to the west on the point. It is a more recent
construction and our tax records were not updated to provide. That's one hands just for your guide. One hands complies. They came before this board and um went away because we had some concerns on the project and they built that house and it
is perfectly compliant within the zone. That's why I'm struggling. I really am just struggling to see 11,000 square feet when I know that that one hands complies and it doesn't look and it's not a small property. Where is 11,000 square feet? But I'm sorry.
No, I understand. home to the east uh directly to the east directly to the east has a first floor of 4,000 there. Um so these are these are larger homes in this area. Um,
and what is our our first 4,489 that does not include the sports. I don't know if this is 11. Dick, how big
the idea? I'll probably calculation is tomorrow. I'm just trying to visualize it. I can scare you in. Yeah, public participation. I know it's just an anecdotal because
you it's relevant to the testimony at the time. New York City East 78 Pine Road. last thing as well is there question. Yeah, my question is just I'm just trying to visualize how big your house is compared to this because I'm looking
at it the area. I was just curious if you knew the square footage of it. Well, it's it's again kind of like this proposal. Ours was similar in that we had sellers doesn't count, you know, and so I I want to say it's okay. I don't think it's that different.
Okay. Okay. If our first floor is our first floor when we said the scaling um 41,000 4100 per floor the property to the east and our and our you know our footprint
we didn't change the footprint of the house when we renovated and so we only went up slightly. Um, so I think we added I don't think we're I don't think we're I think we're about 8,000 75 sounds right. And what was the our 40
our 40 is 7,000 6,900. So we might be 7,200 if I'm recalling all this correct. Okay. Yeah. And then and then you know whatever some of the areas they're going to have. So yeah when you were doing your renovation you
were working with an existing structure correct existing foot but we took it down and went sorry for going out of terminus. Thanks I appreciate it. Well, let let's talk about that point
because I think it's important that there's a reason we didn't sit with the existing footprint because there were not that we were able to make it. Oh, yeah. Looking at the aerial, it's it's appreciated that that you're moving
the house to the moon lot. The old house was right. Correct. My point in saying that is that sometimes you'll make the argument that if you're working with the existing structure, you have a hardship that you're you're working with. In this case, you have a black slate. So, I'm I'm struggling with the ask, you know, I
made clear. Yeah. I mean that the hardship is uh it's a difficult case to prove right that you have a hardship but we we have to test so
about other so the for example existing condition um an existing improvement for improvements or something
about what things that nature. um both variants of C2 is a balance test of what is um the benefits outweigh the variants. Um and in this instance we are requesting C2 variance
that the home is scale to the property and a lot of storage that has been requested is actually the ceilings. Um and the ceilings aren't full second story so the houses can get that same volume of where you would how you
envision like a twotory entrance atrium or something like that. This is only a couple of feet above the 30 in or it's just above the 30 inches that would shrink. So I understand that there concerns regarding following. Um but it is
important to note that it's not as though that we are appearing story. They're just above what is or what triggers the calculation
pointed out pointed out. So how do you reconcile the ad? I think it's it's because they're a smaller scene and for example the sellers in the ground it doesn't visually impact or visually intrude the
area or contribute to the mass. Similarly the half story to a half story is very fun and so it doesn't necessarily trigger the same visual impact as like complete third story. So these are these are
areas in which um they do not impact necessarily the mass of the home because they're within the height of its uh they're underground. They are essentially kind of hidden
from saying that we're not seeing. Yes. So it's mass center, but it increase the mass. The home still meets all the height requirements.
I think circle around this I think the house in the size of the property is conforming scale. So you if you broke this into
three smaller less permitted putting side you could put you could put more square foot that is that you may not agree with it but that is what we're doing
about this design we're giving you a basis to consider the request even This house needs the sheer scale especially when the word but that's in
my opinion as someone who use the word some of these houses if you are massive and some are visually visually appealing. Some of them are
reminisces from the problem we have in other areas where even though they didn't put there but they do lost the house we understand. Let me ask you
a question. Um if there was an appropriate barrier to have larger would waterfront larger be that effective area it would be compared interior where correct and that has reflected
the properties uh if you're looking more the southeast and southwest in the area there are still properties and homes scale those sizes. Uh this home, yes it is a larger home, but it is on a par like I said that is three and a half
times the minimum required not including land that's in the right area. It is however I just stop there. A lot of your property is upland from where the house is. So you look at the lot as 2 and 12 acres
the usable portion of lot 2 and 12 acres from the river. I'm going to see this and I use the river lot as well. It's I don't know that there's I mean realistically twothirds of that land is up towards the private road. It's not wider. I agree
with you 100% but it's not. It's narrow. It's it's a rectangle. It's the wrong way to the chair. So I try to make sure you have at least in theory the three correct
correct you have not have the depth if you correct we didn't no what you're saying you stand for minimum lock countries are 125 you only have 2053
minimum lock range is 125 2 well you might have an error I think this is what chair said you may have you don't have sufficient criteria to design three point
under the under the under the standard I don't think I don't think we testified that to meet all the criteria testified three I want to make sure you would not be able to develop well I don't I don't know the answer that we haven't designed I think I think
the point was on trying to make sure Mr. Gell was very trying to make these steps. All right. I'll take the question. I'll go back to Yeah. I think the point that we've been trying to make actually is just a scale and not and and not the scale on the
piece of land but the scale overall because we look at not just this house. We look at the effect of the next door house. And again, I bring up the one other point that I know for a fact informs because we haven't seen them and that and they and they built a nice a
significant property there on probably not too much less land but this good forms and they don't just say well I've got 200 acres and the is this and therefore I can build things. But I that's I'm just trying to clarify
where we're coming from. That's right. Okay. It's not just a scare. Well, we have the land for it, so we should be able to do this. Um, we look at the whole area. And when you look at a house like on Pinefield that's probably, you know, 7900 7200 ft, you're 30% more. And
that's what concerns me. Not saying you should build that, but that is a big ass. And the vaulted areas are not that significant. The great room's a vaulted area that you're counting. I'm just looking at the second floor. The
space over the garage, which to be honest with you, I know the architect spoke to the scale. That's a lot of that's a lot of bulk that you're adding plus the fourth car garage plus the fourth car in garage, which we haven't discussed today. Um,
you know, those numbers or those dead safely add to the bulk of this of the problem. So I'll let you I'm sorry we keep interrupting the testim talk a little bit about from a planning perspective. What are the negative
result? Well the it meets all your your lot coverage your building coverage. Yes, it meets all your setbacks. It meets your for your ratio. It is substantially set back uh from any other loss to the south
uh to which visual impacts associated uh with the mass being more prevalent along this waterfed smaller lots located to the southwest and southwest
Is it in scale the neighbor your opinion? It appears to be in scale with the neighbors. You can see that there are larger footprints that you have to extend uh houses kind of uh they're not just square sheet. You
know, there are parks that come in, there are parts that extend, there are pools. Um and so it's not all that's out of character or out of What would be
anything else you want to add on? So the highest the highest score was described as discussed discussing it to keep the house higher elevation to the floor
right the structure itself is under 15 ft. If you were to stand next post, it would be it would be the standard. Okay. So fence is reflective of
um it's already standard was testified through the app. you see the character of the site um I'm just going to ask Mr. Is there a question? Why wouldn't we why wouldn't we allow 6 in higher fence? So, the
statute says 42 inch pool fence. Well, no. It's not it's not a a pool fence code. It's a fence code. It has to do with fencing in your front yard. So, you don't want to have a tall fence. Got it. And along the river, you don't want to have a big fence as well. So,
open fence though. I'm sorry. I said it's an open It's not a stockade fence. We're talking about It's an open fence, but you have to consider too that it needs to surround pool, but there's other ways to do that than a perimeter fence. It's not.
No, that's fine. I agree with you. I'm trying to figure out why we would say that, you know, fourarter. So the applicant is seeking a fourcar garage for their vacation as well as to provide their family member
visit. I do know that the four car garage is at an angle. So it's not directly visible to those along the private roadway nor is it visible to those in the river. Um so it's it's neutral in respect to any impact uh
anticipated uh I want to go back to this maximum floor area. How do you reconcile that floor area ratio for so much under but yet you have this varian.
Yes. Do you see this at all about say other local ordinances where they impose this troll as well under the area? I've seen it in one or two other communities. Um but a lot of times the board of Hades will actually consider
the lot size. Um for example, you know, Florida and in this instance, this isn't a small lot. we're substantially below for the floor to fix. So the outfit isn't necessarily overbuilding the par um
square footage uh I I have seen that it is lack um particularly with ceilings or stairwells and things of that nature. Um the home itself as testified to uh is in keeping with the
character of this area black footprint is this about just take a moment to explain uh the height of variances a floor area ratio is compared to maximum
building size. There's a distinction there. One is much more difficult to get than the other but it's the opposite. Yes. So ratio is actually a difference and would have to be considered on a standard where we have toribe
how the site would be able to accommodate each for example if we were ratio there may be more concerns regarding storm water discharge or what are because it is
it's kind of methods to limit the the scale it go in relation to the side of this law. So in this instance your ratio as it said more than it indicating that we are in
compliance with what you as an appropriate ratio to build a home lot size. uh the square footage limitation that does not take into account uh lot area what setbacks or things of this
nature. The square footage limitation is more generous than the ratio which is why we got both. So what what's the floor what's floor area? It's not it's not the cap is always increased of
what's allowed to ratio but the cap exceeds like you can build in our 30 what is it what's the ratio 15%. Correct. So it's 4500 ft but we give you 518.
Okay. So we give you an increase over what the R30 is. Now I know it's a significantly larger property but that's the idea behind the joint and I think this was litigated many years ago and I think we won.
Yeah and even more you did but I didn't regular it could be argued that you know well you're it's unreasonable but I'm only going with what's put in front of me with what I'm allowed to. No, I listen I I I think I've been appearing in the
south many many years. I think it's appropriate for properties that are in land where you're concerned about overbuilding and pricing out not having an ability to control that you're just trying to reconcile with
something that's in my view. It's it's very different. Oh, I agree with you. significant property that you're guys guys talking back and forth. Yeah. So I I you know I'm arguing the case on behalf of my client why I think
it's different on the waterfront. Uh and uh we can disagree but you know we're going to try we're going to try to address whatever concerns we hear. We want to get I'll add water
is The biggest rule of the stand is full of closures. Uh the river is under stress by develop soil soil water contamination. So we need to be very aware of what
we're doing. So I look at development probably even so you know let's consider that and let's stop think this is a beautiful piece of are beautiful house
the very consider the entire ownership so this like this is governed by right so heighten the approval that NJP has the issue for this property so your fears are legitimate but not with this property because it's
going to be compliant with all of the regulations So again, you know, we've heard a lot of comments tonight. I I don't know where you want to go from here. Obviously, I'd like to I'd like to finish her
testimony at least. I'd like to hear. Yeah. Uh and just in in response to your comment as well, our home investigating storm water and excess or runoff and excess wasn't
it's actually under these standards. So um I could understand a concern if we're caving half law and we're throwing this to how it beated
for but we're respecting those standards and we're respecting and making sure that and that does play a part in his ear just to go on to Mr. Chinel's also the point of Minister Jordan Mr. Joe pointed
out about the nature disturbance and how close we are to that to that numbers. But again, you know, and the height and things of that we're complying with that. So the standard that's not the law. It's difficult for us to it's tight. It's tight, but it's applied.
It's like comparing words to replace what? It's like comparing to replace I would apply so regard that we areing white space as you can see uh the former structure. Yes, it's been but it was
substantially included on it. It also would provide would have it also would have impacted more along the riverfront because it was oversized regards to height. So that was also
impact. Um I would find it is a better um it does as I said space out instead of having more cluster as was associated with fire and the home is also it's a it's an
appropriate location for post home is yes no access wearing this type of question. There's not no there wouldn't be as much hardship. Um it is
when dealing with size it can become a little bit more just push they're not anticipated as much. So the zoning may not be able to address every participating cost and you feel that movement is twice
as big the ordinances or the I know that the cat considers a lot of 30,000. So consider any area
is based upon a lot of 30,000 consider any area that is but the minimum zone requirements 30,000 square ft right so it is holding uh no matter the lot size the home to the same size even
though a larger lot And the radio considers the size of the lot. Yes. Right. And the cap is not considered. How does exceeding the cap% benefit? because it is keeping uh we say the
character of this portion of the neighborhood along the waterfront and it is recognizing that this council is the cap as I said considers a lot that is 30,000 ft considers anyone
so anything over 30 but you know what I would like to see this is the old house on the on this March March 9th 2025. Right. What I would like to see is an overlay
of the of the proposed new structure. I would like to see it in the building in relation to in relation to the body. Okay. So you want to Yeah. Yeah. In other words, I I would like to see if you look if you look to
the east, if you look, you see, can you can you give us a copy of that? Yes. If she has copies that we could look at,
that would be nice. a few more to Yeah. What is the structure part? The instruction of this property is the middle of this property.
125 Anybody else have any more questions? Miss to the chair. Yes, sir. Please. I just I would just like I just want to make sure that The record
is real outside of the problem for the sports and your explanation at least the explanation you have this evening
because what are the variances that you're seeing this evening are based upon the harsh C1 Well, it would existing portions of the fence uh that are older than 42 in. Why is that? What is what is
because those are existing conditions that are supposed to remain the existing condition of the fence. Yeah. No basis in portions of the beds that are open to the juice. Okay. The non section uh we are going to look into shifting in
uh the reinforce and so the garage is on a hardship. the garage areas. So you're so you're basing those two on the C2
what I mean I know that the positive any structure that deconforming would give like those types of things. Uh yes. Uh this was in comparison to the existing or previously constructed comparison to the prior structure.
That's wrong. You've got no touch except except my you've got no to compare. I'm asking based upon this what by building a nonperforming building that's nonforming
performing how does that meet the C2 criteria what benefit does that provide other property owners and why is that better than what is that
so uh with respect to light space uh the garage does meet the setbacks. It does meet the height um it does meet the bold criteria. So it would provide light up to four cars.
So Mr. number. No, we're just trying to identify the issue that you're asking. Well, no. I'm just walking through the C2 the C2 project basically for
that this variance allows you to get rid of something that benefits not just the property but surrounding and is and is a better design. What is the static benefit
in terms of height? The garage. Yes. So the garage is a fourcar garage to house their vehicles take them out of the courtyard area.
Yes. You've got a massive area because it prevents it allows to be parked inside. It allows for a better visual continuity. on the river but that's consistency.
So it is and it also brings the to the size of the parcel. So it is a better visual development. What is the difference in based 11,000
11,827 square ft uh whereas the zone anticipates a square footage of 5,8 80 square ft on a lot that contains 30,000 square feet any lot. Well, I will accept her interpretation
of that. We don't have to accept that. But if you would build it in for also things that you're saying, it would have to be in comparison to homes that are also prayer. So, uh, a small home may not digally
compatible. You also could take advantage of the upzoning to get to the R40 size. Correct. What do they not need on the R40? Is it just the floor? Is it just the floor area? All right. Um,
um, okay. I'd like to move along only because we're getting late. I do want to hear the rest of the testimony from your professionals also and give the public a chance to Thank you. My name is Thomas E. I've been licensed
here since 1988. had my own business in 1989. I will be past president of different chapter
American society effects and boards. Thank you Mr. And then I have two exhibits here. One for
when I first came into I just amazed that news of the river and existing vegetation. And I also noticed that there seemed to be specimen trees
dispersed around the property. And I thought it was unusual. And uh Elder Nancy notified me that the previous owner had been sort of a amateur artwork
and he planted all these trees years ago and he also had a map of where they were and they were all label. They weren't really in the place that we're going to leave them but
uh they wanted to save them. So we incorporated all of those trees into our plan. Um first of all we're uh along both perimeters and in front of
existing education mature education we're going to be adding u understory plantings like burn and in the front here we're going
to be sort of a bang site in some evergreens along the front. As we come into the driveway, uh we have an arlay of cherry trees
coming in into the court area. Here we're sort of screening the buildings from the front here. You come in, you have uh this beautiful and in your all of a sudden you see the
building. Uh in the front of the garage here we have a vegetable garden which will have a fence around and little wall and some beds through there.
Um back then, you know, we are uh a little close here, but this is all these are mature existing trees and we're going to be selfing that with more vegetation. So
we're going to be pretty um buffered from size. Uh we have the pool in the background pool will be an infinity pool. So from
the river what we'll be seeing is uh the water will be coming off the edge and this whole wall here will be a stone wall or sort of a waterfall coming down. So that that will be from the living
and um to address your concern about the river and right now all here that has a lot of
along the river front. What we're doing is gonna add we're gonna augment that soil and instead of adding lawn going up to the river we're gonna do wild
ornamental grasses which will help support the soil so it doesn't it'll help with the flow of workers philosophy of the water coming back into
there and uh you know we're going to have a beautiful building. We can't really hide the hide the building from the river and we don't want to because we want to have we want
to maintain. So we're we're actually putting all the the vegetation to sort of train the building and doing
along with the question about the circle. Well, right now I have a hedge in the back here with a sculpture in the middle
and a tree. We um it's going to be sort of a a field element in landscape with the with the proposal to move the
sport court a little more towards the the west. Would that affect your landing fun at all? Um, I mean, yes. I know it's only 20 feet or so, but it's still or 12 feet or so. Still
really much and like I And and we're also going to try to incorporate a lot of color so we can do a lot of perennials along the borders and have seasonal seasonal color
throughout the year. Questions? are detected. This is that something even felt dead by the rivers. It's also a type of correct
right is this place that type of environment. Um yeah, most of most of the uh grasses will tolerate that and uh there we have hydrangeas and
they're all okay. Will there be an effect of irrigation system? Yeah. Okay. And usually
specifically wildfire. There is water specific plants to plant. A lot of ladies and nursery depending on
exact I don't like plant. doing Saturday. Can you speak to the vegetation a little bit more behind the sport court? I know our engineer, Mr. Rizzo, had asked about the the buffering that would be provided
from the vegetation, you know, perhaps due the the noise coming from the sport. Yeah. Yeah. We could stagger those. So we have an initial screen. What What height are you envisioning?
Well, uh, initially 12t said 10 and 12 ft. I believe yes. Okay. And can you submit that? I haven't seen anything. So then the landing pop out is such as
consideration. Yeah. And did I hear you force favors? Yeah. And was your question regarding front driveway area? Can we just clarify? I want to make sure
that I've asked a question. You expect to see something else that Yes. You ready? Any more questions? Thank you very much. Right. Um,
at this point I think I would like to open it up public. I would like to just say Mr. Mendosa, this may seem a little daunting, but we take a lot of pride and a lot of time in what we do and this is a significant property and we want to make sure we do the right thing for the
neighborhood. Excellent. Excellent. I know sometimes we can come across a little heavy and just want to let you know that. Very good. All right. You will maybe another person.
Okay. Um yeah, let's open the public. You're come forward. Morty, sit down. Get your name. Um a question about my question actually. Is this the right thing? I'm not. Okay.
58. Spelling your last name, please. H E R. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. So, I don't know if this is what you um this is the right venue. So, I'm going to ask you a question about my
question. And my question is about the private mode because that didn't come up in the discussion today. There are actually because it's I call it a horseshoe. It sort of loops around. There are two entrances to the property
and I'm assuming that man mostly is the one that's marked 29. But other people might come in the other way. You might come in the other way. Sometimes I do. Um anyway, there are I think four properties that you the town has put up
the sign and they've marked the private lands and there are four properties at the upper entrance and 29 is listed at the bottom entrance. So I'll tell you what, can we put the
neighbor? Pardon? The other one goes to where? Lo point or no? It's right next to point. Exactly. Right. You can just step over here and you're at the private show. Yeah. So, my house would be right here
and this is rather large, but it's very small. And um so here's your lot right here. And if you were to build any other man,
it would be right here and all this point would be right there. So this is mostly gravel and this is Oh, it's so that my question
things. There was three or four of those in town. It's always baffled me. So, um I already have barricade my fence. I'm sure you've seen it. Um because it's
already been taken out by obviously there's going to be a lot more construction. So I just didn't know this in town. As a matter of fact, it was a tree that was dead and yes, I actually took it upon myself.
She took care of it. I said, "Listen, I was afraid trees on that entrance and so I takes care of it." So, we really need I don't know. You can you can ask counsel or maybe Rich
just so those are the four houses in the back and then so I'm just curious I'm new. I'm new to this. Honestly, it should be, but given that there's
going to be a significant construction there, maybe you can get some movement from from the governing body on it. I'm I'm not sure. Yeah, Dave Po 78 on the neighborhood. Um, I support this plan. I think it beautifies the neighborhood. Um, I also
want to say that been very responsive that he's, you know, developing the property. So, I'm appreciative of that as a neighbor. Um, the plans are beautiful. I think, you know, I'm not compliant with the board's concerns about square footage. I might benefit from many of the variances that I discussed tonight. my own property. I
think most significantly the max square footage ratio for two and a half acre lot is something to pay attention to. Um I think as a neighbor I benefit from was mentioned the light air space uh by the removal of the old house uh and the
centering of the new proposed structure in the lot I think improves the area around all the neighbors that North adjacent to the property. Um, and I'm assuming there's nobody on I don't know if those neighbors have any objections. You know, they didn't show up. So, I the
one neighbor that did is in favor of it. So, I think that's going to do it. Um, no issue sports court. Uh, I even prefer prefer the cover design versus like an open, you know, tennis court with lights, you know. So, so I think, you know, when it comes to pickle ball, I
think that noise would be mediated by the fact that it's indoors. Uh, one question on the couple is I want to know if they're live. Um, and then um, and then I guess the the generators weren't on the plan for a hall. So, I
wanted to protect flexibility move that generator from east wall to the south wall. It's the uh, everything you ask me. Absolutely. And, um,
I was just thinking reflecting the noise of the generator into the larger green space of the property as opposed to but in fact if you move that up that way So anyway, like I said, I support that application as as so thanks very much.
Thank you. Did the generator get shifted to the front side or the south side? Sorry. Yes. Outside of the accessory structure, it's it's now No, I would agree with that. I think since we move the sports then we can do
it in such a way. I think I make 30. I'm not not clear on where the same area and another question is lights. The only type of lights we have is some
lowc we're not light pollution. No, we're not light. We're gonna have links inside when we do it. Any more from the public
reflect on? Um, okay. Mr. Any more from you? No. Obviously level seeing are much prepared to vote on it application as it presently exists but we're open to discussing
kind of things you want us to take a look at if that's necessary you think that the testimony supports application you think the size of the property supports the size of the home requested we remove the
number pre-existing variances that were there for the older have been removed. Uh you've heard my findings for professionals. I think effectively supporting grand bar. But we also heard concerned about you know size
and scale uh and you know we don't want to deny. So we want to have a little bit of input from you as to what you might need us to consider. We'll see if we can try to address things as the best we can.
Okay. So, I'm happy to have board discussion and then you can listen and take the things that were said and you know decid if we can. I think we'd like to put together before you have perspective
that are still Palestinian, but I'm not trying to get a commitment from council officer specifically said you want to check on check on things like you can combine the laws. I I don't want to set something up for failure with a
conditioning approval. So this evening I'll tell you the council council direction but I don't want to ask condition to say I don't go check and see if it's going to impact anything you can put a condition in to
combine I don't know if you want to do that without any research there you have issues concerning moving that accessory structure ideally 35 ft but it may not be possible they may not want to do the full 35 ft
Maybe you have things like restrictions. They were going to take those things in there including the fence that we don't have yet.
Yeah, you have things concerning restrictions there checking on whether or not defense if they're going to move the generator some site where that's going to do and
again aside from not holding anybody to this ability to find that generator where that limitation was concern and restrictions on the subdivision going forward address
that um applicants already agreed that if there's any obvious landscape conditions but you want to make sure that that was conditioning as I said no parking resto
area Um there are some type of depiction concerning the low light area height based upon two as to where the height of that
portion from the mid from the ridge line of the roof or if that that end up but again not one that we should at least consider that that's the condition that we talked about
before that read that with regard to character there's no problems with the people that I also recommended the one for informationational but just outlining the current disturbance um and that if
it were to exceed it in the future it would help some of the other things like the landscape schedule that could be condition that condition um publicly if you are satis That's right.
That's the items that I have. I think all of those conditions were okay. The only one I want to check is the salvation doesn't trigger any P issue with the
repair. So I just we want to confirm that uh and if it's not a problem then it wouldn't be a problem. Well I mean I think we'd want to see that redesign and location and also again I'm not saying your
business unique business but if that If you find it anyway else to I'll leave that to the board. Okay. Thank you, Mr. P. Um,
okay. So, I think we're going to do some have some discussion. Obviously, you've heard our concerns, some concerns already. maybe lean a little bit more from that and then we can decide on on what you want to do. public discussion.
Yeah. Yes. So the posit myself relationship to neighbors very proactive concerning six years
I don't think anyone And this is less impact. I know the engineers I know this is your grand.
So we have these developments um and even though they're similar to what's there what's there might not necessarily be so reduction but just a
And you know I don't see it easy. You should have just% um I understand people think you know one of the and post
BS if meeting ratio was enough. is my wise to any property that's been whether it's three times underized at
10,000 square ft or it's three times over Um the cash approach to the existing but there is no
back in that spot. There's no reason for setbacks or this this even the previous um
the areas that are The testimony said because they're only a certain height above whatever ceilings. The one in the center of the house is surrounded by
two and a half stories on three sides. So it's it's it doesn't minimize anything of the property the fact it's only
One story and the rest of your space can't have enough. So I'm back. Um and certainly that
sports because the way I read it is that there is a section about who was but that defines the size of that box that we could put on the roof. It would say anything about
that can be above the height of that we're measuring for the height of that building part of the structure. I'm not sure about that. in the past. Yeah, we I'm not sure that this came up with with Mark Douglas and I don't
recall that he measured to the I understand that my opinion is wants to come See the distinction between that not being part of structure to see the
distinction that that part of the structure can't be bigger than a certain dimension. That's all. Um the capital said yesterday on the east side of this point
on the United States. So you got to push that ft. words. Not sure how much that amplifies the sound when you put any type of pad
thing inside like that. Um, I know someone that lives near similar setup and it's amazing how loud that sound is enclosed
in a structure considered Yeah, down back there west very dangerous or you drive across
bridge the left hand. I will say that I appreci lot that I appreciate about this application. I I absolutely appreciate the the house situated in the middle lot. Um I think that's helpful to the river. I think
that's helpful to the neighborhood the neighborhood. I really appreciate building. I think that's going to be beautiful. And I know we had an application um on terrace where there was a lot of discussion about the
landscaping um leading down the river and the potential for different things we could not that were speeding up some way keep everything from um eroding. So I think that that that really is
important. Uh but I I do appear to take in on that plan. Um I I do also think that if you are able to pull the sport court in um that would minimize the impact of
being somewhat spacious with uh you from the river that might be helpful. Um also the
of course the the quite the size of um is that a concern and I know that that you mentioned um the architect mentioned that the aesthetic was the reason for
the move. even though I I don't know if it's able to be pulled in somehow. I don't necessarily understand why that side of everything else. There's
there's a way to take advantage of um the the quote unquote free spaces that we give, you know, with the basement and the attic. Um take some of that down. I think that would be appreciated. But overall it's a
beautiful beautiful house, beautiful property. Um there is something special about property obviously we can um it makes sense why why we need to have a substantial home thereial
investment and there's something special about those properties. So um I I do think that there is a little bit something different that you need to take into account. um as some of the
uh I think I think I think everything that she's proposed very I would I would ask that the laws be we stipulated the loss cannot be subdivided
and I think I think that would be very helpful. Um, I I like the idea of moving the sports complex closer to the house or closer to uh and I wonder uh because I think that that gets rid of
some of the maths looking at the house and looking at the uh uh looking at it from a year and I I wonder if you can't solve a lot of your problems by by making that sports sport outdoors. I
mean, I I don't know how many square feet you would eliminate by making that an outdoor sports uh sport. You're going to you're going to play pickle ball where they play with the coat on the
coat on. That's uh you know I'm just looking for a way to get rid of some of the some of the uh you know the BS. Um, I think everything else has been been mentioned and u as far as the
landscape architecture um I live as well and I you know I'm just overrun with tear and I would just recommend to you that you figure
out some way to uh do some planning that they'll teach you a lot and you know it's everywhere but you know there are certain things that you can do that you know that will
but you know in my comments it's it's beautiful I think uh all board members hit everything that I would say just to reinforce some of it. It really is a beautiful application. It's a part of one of these beautiful lots that Fair Haven has. Um I'm just really struggling
with the size. I I don't see a lot of effort was made to kind of bring this in closer to conformance. There was an opportunity to take advantage of an upzone. I'm pretty sure about that. That could have got you to 6900. Um, you know, there's, if I'm looking at
it correctly, there's 2,000 square feet of space above the garage. That's counting. And, um, I'm not an architect, and I certainly wouldn't tell the architect how to do his design, but I I think there's got to be a way to rein that in a little bit. uh that that would seem to
be an easy place to start to get rid of some of that square footage because while it's not usable, the bottom line is it shows up as a variance that's granted for that square footage and I I'm really struggling with that. U Mr.
Kovat's tried to go through the the basis for the proofs and honestly I did not hear anything that would allow me to vote yes in this application for um the flexible city. Just just for some background on the dead space, we'll call
it above the garage, the space, especially the garage space. In the past, that was not counted as square footage. People took advantage of it and said, "No, we're not going to count the space garage, finished it, and now we have
problem." Um, ordinances were changed recently, which is why we said, "Okay, we're going to count that space, but we're going to give you the free addict and the basement um as a tradeoff." So we count everything that's there as potentially developable. That's why when you see
dead space there, it's like oh dead space, why do you count? That's why it's uh it was done to address something that you know everybody will find a way to work around. So and that's it. And that is uh I don't have a lot more to add than Marty did. It's just those dead
spaces are coming. But because I just I mean the second honestly I think it looks like a second house. Sorry this is going to you first. Oh no it's okay. I I think everyone pretty much covered everything very well. The best way that I can try to
wrap my head around um the square footage is to consider that um a if they were to sell this property today and it was bought by a builder, um I would bet a thousand% that they would split it
into two lots, they'd probably have waterfront side and then the other side and they figure out how to do run a driveway along the side. So, they would meet all the criteria um I think uh of setbacks and and width.
Um and then you're looking at let's say um you know 10 10,000 square feet. So, and that's in two wellsized homes. So, it's just very hard to wrap my head
around a more than even that. um let's say it was, you know, two properties to um to approve one dwelling that's even more than if it
were two dwellings on that lot. So, that's kind of where I'm trying to wrap my head around the total square footage. Um, you know, I I think it's gorgeous and I personally, you know, want to like
approve it and want to live there, but um I wouldn't be doing my job on this board. Um, and not considering just how much square footage is being asked. When I look at the floor plans, I don't see it. So, I kept going back to it. I don't see 12,000. But, so you've got
1,400 square feet in the in the sport court. Knock that off. And really that that the dead space was which eating us alive cuz the garage and the space above the garage and to a little bit of extent that great room but that's not that's not huge but um
yeah I we're lucky that this has come up because yes we don't want to see a subdivision. Yeah. Um and we have an opportunity to do something good here and make it spectacular. I just think it could be and again like like Marty said and like
and like Mr. co said with the flexible C I I didn't get the proof you know I didn't get the the basis that yes this is a better option this is the best option for an improvement over what's already in the municipal
so what is this I know you could do a flat it would be it would be so hard Yeah, hard to tell, but I think that's something that is a possibility.
Okay, it's late. Um, I think that's kind of what we have to say. We're more than welcome to you vote if you want to, but I I think you've heard the board and um
we're happy to reconsider and come back with a little tweak and a little what what can be improved upon. Yeah, we'll ask this carried next time. Um, would August be okay for you? You think it would be ready in August?
Okay. I think Sheila, I think we can. Sorry, can you? Yeah, no problem. Okay. Okay. So, I'll make a motion to carry the MOSA application till the 7th of
August without need notice. Yes. Angela, yes. Dr. Brian, yes. Dr. Yes. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you all. Okay. Um
we have I was agenda lost my Thanks. Um just a couple quick administrative items. uh minutes from the June 5th Wagger meeting. I'll make a motion to approve as
um I have I have a correction to add to that. Oh, okay. So, the minutes um just in the voting the last four motions Uhhuh. Uh the people who were absent were accidentally on the abstain line instead
of the absent line for all motions. before we approve it. Thank you. Sorry. Thank you. said that
correction. Oh, yeah. Who second? Yes. Mr. Uh, yes. Yes. I think that's it. Uh, June 5th, executive sess.
I'll second. Yes. states. Yes. Yes. May 1st executive session minutes. I'll make a motion to approve. I'll second.
Yes. Yes. Yes. One more resolution for Deo 15 Colonial Court. I make a motion to approve as submitted. I'll second. Yes.
Yes. Yes. Okay. Um, any members in public have anything to say? Concerns, questions? You guys are so thoughtful and really appreciate it. Thank you, Mr. Appreciate it.
Thank you very much. Okay. Um, we are going to have a very quick executive session. So, thank you all for coming. Hold on a second. service discussion discussion 30 minutes 11
for anticipated motion. Second. Yes. Yes. Yes. We are in the process of the shutter of collecting signatures from all counts.