>> Shown on for 26 budget. And before we get started, we need to read in Mister Frisch the February 25 School Board Budget Committee meeting is
called to order and at 05:00:04PM.
>> Mr. Fresh has submitted a written request to attend this meeting virtually due to medical reasons. And he is located in the Providence District in Fairfax County. All those in favor of approving Mr. Fishes request,
please raise your hands. That as Mr. McElveen Anderson, Mr. McDaniel, Mr. Moon, this lady, this mayor and Mystics it in myself. That is unanimous for
those present. And turn the meeting back over to the stomach and I'm I'm Mr. Freshly police us to Mike. Thank you. We can hear you meeting back to Mr. McDaniel,
thank you. Miss Sizemore Heizer this morning ahead of the distinct privilege of being an audience member of the Board of Supervisors meeting where the county executive presented his
proposed fy 26 budget. >> the high level notes that all going to really quick the proposed transfer increases 118 million dollars, 7 million
additional 7 million for capital debt with which represents a 51.0. 5 1% split in revenue. So that's the high level. And with that, I'm going turn things over to
leave. She can give you some more details and will kick
things off after that. >> What Mister McDaniel said is absolutely correct. They have the county funding. Is it
the same percentage that it was in the current year, which is 51.5% and that results in
118 0.6, 4 million dollars. >> Over the previous year. basically that means that.
Current budget right now we would have to reduce by about 121 Million. And with that, I'm assuming that the House
and Senate in the General Assembly budgets that they proposed originally are pretty closely aligned, much more so than you normally see. Normally there's a huge distinction between the 2
bodies, but they're pretty close this time. So we're comfortable that we think we're going to get about. 28.3 million more from the state. So the actual difference
between the county transfer that we requested and what they've offered is 150 Million. But we're going be if we get the additional 28 million that the state has
proposed. Then that would put a gap and 121 million instead of the 150. So so that's good. And you should also know that
the that there is not anything included in the county executive's budget for the meals tax, but he did make some remarks about the meals
tax. And I guess what they're considering is a $0.3 meals. Tax, which for a full year would generate about 96 million dollars. But for
fiscal 26, it would only be a half a year impact because it wouldn't go into effect until January. One of 26. So it would end up being about 48 million to the county and
his comments seem to suggest that they are going to discuss the meals tax at a later date March April time frame because
they want to substitute the meals, tax funding. Not to provide if CPS with any additional funding, but to not include a one and a half cent
real estate tax rate which is included in the county executive's budget and then reduce that another half cent more. The meals tax at this
point. Would do would not have any impact on us at all as as he has. Suggested in his comments today. The Maxx that
you can do on a meals tax is $0.6. And if it was, if they if someone proposed a $0.6 and that past. And that would generate an additional
192 million per year. And about half that in the first year because it only wouldn't start until January one. And
as far as the state goes, you know, yesterday they were supposed to complete all of their committee work. And then once that all of that work is
completed, then that's communicate. Well, the General Assembly has until February 20th to put the Bills into conference committees with final action on this coming Saturday. February 22nd. And
then after that stand, then the governor may sign an ID or veto any bill presented to him and he has until March 24th to take that action. And the General Assembly will return
for reconvene session on Wednesday. April 2nd, so, you know, with the county, I mean, they just introduced today with the state. Early days. We
have a lot of discussions that have to happen before. We all know our actual funding levels. Okay. Thank with that.
We'll open the floor Not everybody. >> Jump and once Mr. Moon. name is Tremaine know. One thing that ever got to tell
you is they also included in their budget document and pay just 37 3.60, 4, a list of agency reductions and you may
recall that. Mr. He'll announce that they were looking at the 10% reduction level. Well, he's budget includes reductions that total
3.4%, not 10%. And of those reductions. There's about 7 of them that would impact Fairfax City, public schools like
crossing guards at the high school Fairfax County. They like crossing guards. Apparently none of the other school divisions have crossing guards at the high school
level. So they've proposed reducing that 16 positions. Nurses, they have apparently 30 vacancies in. So they have.
Proposed reducing those 30 vacancies for nurses, middle school actual program bridge to kindergarten as an emergency step program and a
transition services for Fcps seniors and those reductions that are on the county side on air behalf total 7.7 million
dollars. And just real. Real quick, a quick comment. This is somewhat unusual timing for us because typically we have this work session while.
>> The county is presenting its budget. But because of timing, we now know the numbers. So in addition to more conversation on our budget, the numbers that the county executive put out this
morning can also help inform our conversation tonight. Mr. >> thank you, chairman. The Let me first a question about
calling people call the sign. As a county executive. question but to pleas for dealers site.
>> I do not know the answer to that. That. My colleague, Matthew might or else we can to in the budget director is online. She may know the answer to that. I do not.
>> Okay. If you can come back to you when you have that information that with the state funding that you said so
million dollars Does that include something? I you a lot of week and a half ago when I was down in Richmond. including.
>> Just a bonus $1000 per instructional staff. Is that part of that wind gusts bonuses on top of that or? >> Yeah, we didn't. I'm not
including the money for the bonuses. In my analysis of the 28 million, if you look at the information provided at the February 4th work session, it actually says 48 million
because and the House proposed $1000 bonus for all is so key positions for fiscal 26 and the Senate propose that for
fiscal. 25. But either way, it's the same amount of money. And there one time costs of which the state will kick in 20.0, 3 million. And we it
would cost to s 36 million to do the bonus in the same way that we did in fiscal. 23, which is $1000 for every full time position. Ali contracted
Ali contracted or bus drivers and food service workers and family liaisons. And then we did $500 for hourly workers. And then if you are just a very minimal, I think below 10
hours, hourly worker than it was $250. So if we did that in fiscal 26, just like we did in fiscal 23. The says 36 million
of which the state's going to kick in 20, but it's all one-time funds. I understand. You know, my question and so again, ease. >> What's so that 28 point
something million and not include 1000 not upon us. >> For Israel to funded patients. if I ask you. See
what model that $1000 bonus translate into a lot calmer. Could your tennis with a point? 6.0, one-time funding.
On that understanding on mine on the Bonus Amendment budget amendment. Was that that was not going to quiet from real close school district. Is that
correct? I mean, take Condition >> that's that's true. But implementing what they're
proposing is not really doable in the way that they propose it because I think I've explained you all before, and I'm just making these numbers up as an example that I could come up with real examples if
we needed to. Let's say that the state says the accuses that we're required to have one reading specialist per 1000 kids. means we need 180.
And if we have 200 then that means 20 of those people are not included in that bonus because they're not is so key positions. They're not require which could
>> Could he have the have? The Taylor? What information about these proposed tariffs on that and time? Yes, I can have a better understanding what
shaded makes me he's including. On one. My question 82 that is. Are you suggesting that we reject the money?
>> No, I'm OK just that we fund it because its one-time funds and we've included bonuses for one-time funds in our budget proposal before to the county. And the first thing they did was take it out
because its one-time funding. All right. So the 16 million ewells. If we if we. I it would be very surprising to me that we would reject 20.3
million dollars. But if we so if we don't reject, it would have to include 16 million at year-end to to bring it up to the level
>> thank Yeah. >> Mr. D***, attempt to address your other question earlier on. So the county's toll revenue increases about 255 and a half million dollars
of which 125 million slated for schools. It's 118 million for the school operating support. And 6.7 million for debt service. And then when you look at what's left after the funding, their providing
schools, 118 million dollars in additional revenue for the county for that. They've also got dispersants related to and then they've got 12 million dollars on allocated of which
they've set aside 6.5 million for tourism. And then they haven't unallocated balance of about 5.6 million. So there are budget, you know, expenditure wise. They have
118 million that they're kind of increasing. Their buses aren't. Even even though the one of the that I saw on your do online today. >> You know, show that they are county prison. You. They
were making structure with options. But at the same time, the or or one on increase in budget request, correct? That's correct. They do have 59.8 million reductions that
part of that overall 118 million dollar increase without those reductions, you know, they would presumably have 178 for increased. Okay. Thank 1, 1, last question that
I have ease. >> With a potential gap 121 million county that tips. You know, recommendation and
our superintendents, quest for to requests from county Board of Supervisors. 121 million dollars up work to translate or 121 million dollars to a
compensation. What's percentages? Yeah. What's the percentage of compensation, including me we're thinking
about doing and the collective bargaining agreement that we would not be able to do. Each one percent is about 30 Million. Don't that's about
Thank you. That's I have at this point. concerning on my part. >> Thank you, Mr. Huhne Dr Anderson.
>> Thank I appreciate the information that was shared today and the news summit that McDaniel for sending that to us to soon as it was presented, much appreciated.
>> Dre, I know it's early days. I know there's lots of moving parts, but how do you want us to hash would be thinking about this information today? When you
say this information, are you referring to the county county's proposal? Yes, well, I think we should view it in this spirit. It's intended. It is a proposal. And as burden stated, it's early days and
our process. We also are not clear about what the state will end up allocating we still have several months between now and final budget
numbers. Just to kind of help to cement that a little bit. MS. can you share and the past few years when the county's coming under. What has been
the increase generally, if any. From the proposal to the final. Well, I know that this
past year that. They originally told us that we would get about 75 Million. And by the time appropriation came around, air increase was
165 million or 19 million more. >> Okay. So that's encouraging information. Thank you. Can you speak a little bit if you know, in terms of the proposal
that was shared this morning Mr. Hill. >> The impact on their CBA agreements. What what what were they able to fully fund that and what did that look
like? What was that? >> I not. Familiar with their collective bargaining process.
>> It was stated this morning that they were honoring the collective bargaining agreements the second year that they had for for those as of the average there ever times what was a percentage.
It's a combination of a percentage increase in their merit and step increases. So I off the top my head. I don't know the answer that, but I know that their second year was not as substantial as the first year. The collective
bargaining agreement. Thank you >> and going back to the boat is the bonus. I think that's something that I had asked you doing the presentation. What I
believe I heard from you, it would be impossible for us to tease out because we have gone above the so cues. So it's either we make it up or we
don't do it at all. >> I mean, a decision the I don't believe that the legislation contemplates giving a lesser bonuses to hourly employees, which that's
what we have done. >> You know, at the lower level that $500 for hourly folks, that would that work a lot of hours and then to 50 for those that work very
limited hours. decision could be made not to do that and then it wouldn't be 36 million dollars for the But it isn't so cute position. It's I mean,
how are you going to all of the 2 positions? Pretty much. We in all school divisions in Virginia. We fund more than actually is required. So trying to decide who would get
the bonus and who wouldn't. Challenging best. Yeah. So there's actually a 3 tiers. There's not doing it at all doing it for everyone like
we've doing it for. >> The ESO que positions because we go beyond that. Can you get us a list of those positions that would be
eligible under the state's regulations? Thank you >> Thank you. The other part of my question You-you
mentioned at the beginning of your statements that we have a 7.7 million dollar. Decrease crossing guards, nurses. Can you talk a little bit more in
terms of the impact of the nurses? Where do we not have nurses are these school? Well, this is actually the school impact. >> So we have 30 schools that need to have nurses and don't currently. And then those
positions are going to be wiped away as per the decision today. Well, as for the proposal today, well, this is
kind of link the but it says stretch. >> That they're they're going to redesign the school's
health model. And so. I guess they believe that if they redesigned that, that they will be able to eliminate 30 positions. We do think that.
Even if they do that, that we will remain in compliance with so cues because there's an eso que for nurses and psychologists and social
workers. That's combined. And so we have enough psychologists and social workers that they can take this reduction in nurses and we still would meet the ESO que requirement would still be
in compliance and what will be a compliance. And it's not necessarily providing that medical support to students in our schools who would require it. >> There's not any level of
detail. Here is to what schools how they would implement. This is just that they they say they're going to redesign and will need 30 >> Thank you. And bridge to kindergarten. I think it was a little bit surprised to hear
that with kindergarten is funded by the county Dre. >> I thought that now. Listen. We're talk about summer programming for to be cut. >> You know, Dakota City you
want to clarify that, please. >> So it's a great question. And unfortunately, it's a complicated answer because our funding is all braided together. So county funding
and school funding for early childhood education programs funded together, part of the expenditures go to support county community based programs and part of the expenditures that we get from the state and federal
government go to support scps programs. So I think what they're saying with that is that they would reduce the amount of funding that we would get from the county targeted towards bridge decay.
But I haven't seen any proposals on that. So I can't really speak more about that. I did see a proposal earlier today. got notification. I did not see the full proposal
about the nursing situation where they're proposing to replace the public health nurses, registered nurses with licensed practical nurses, so little little bit, a lesser
level of accreditation and certification. I see. Thank you. >> And I'll come back to that. But just who ask. One more question Missus, Burton, with what use with what you stated
earlier, which is last year. We said we'll want to do a bonus and they remove that the county doesn't determine how we spend enough funds. We determined that we present.
Obviously this is out plan. >> But nothing prevents us from moving things around as we see our needs emerge. Correct? Correct. But generally accepted accounting
principles say that you should not fund one-time costs with one >> And so they took it out
because it's not an ask of them of recurring dollars. It's a one-time cost that we will have to address.
>> Dr per city of Rich to kindergarten. its own line item. It's not just part of the bucket of ask from Fcps. That's why it's kind of targeted in this way. I haven't seen anything on this.
So I don't really want to speculate too much. that's one possibility. I think once we get more information, obviously we'd be happy to share that with the board. But at this point, I just I haven't seen any proposal from
the county. >> Yeah, these are items that are in the county's budget on behalf of Fcps. So that particular line is 150,000. It's not positions. So. It
sits braided together. So I don't I don't really know the impact. OK? Thank I see this Tessa 10 seconds left. I'll
have a go back. Thank you, Mr. McDaniel for providing this update and it's great to have it soon after, but certainly haven't adjusted it. So.
Colleagues. I would like us to consider identifying our preferred future. Because we are doing the same thing and
it is not working. And I am not going to go through every deduction that the county has proposed. My preferred future is it unified county budgeting
process for all county provided services and facilities. So some of my questions are. How would be like the budgeting process to unfold for the remainder of
this fiscal year's process and then in the future. What information does our board need to know and what conversations do we need to be part of and when to create a unified county budgeting
process. How do we as a school board want to be partners with the Board of Supervisors? How do we want the school division to be included and considered in crafting an annual budget and long-term financial
health? Do we want CPS to manage instructional related and core mission related activities including early childhood bridge to kindergarten school, age, child care and any other
programs. What does the work look like? This is a question for Dr Reid to explore the and braiding of these funds and services and would fcps implement this work more
efficiently I would love as a next step. Not it. I would love is a out of this conversation today to be able to show up to the Board of
Supervisors next week at our scheduled one-hour meeting world. 22 of us are supposed to be there. We're invited to attend. I would like us to show up. Having gotten
consensus on what questions or comments we want to share. As a unified voice of the board. What I'm thinking a lot about is the superintendents
executive limitation reports where she is identified, change and growth and efficiencies and savings. And while I could ask all those questions of the county board,
I don't think that that's really productive. This is I think my 10th year going through the Fairfax County budget cycle and I started when there is an 80 million dollar proposed deficit back
in 2015. I believe that given. Where we are our local economy is very uncertain. We've got people losing jobs left right
and center. Public education is not on a strong footing politically. We have our
facilities that we know need a lot of attention. I I think it would best serve us to talk about how do we get to our preferred future? What does the future look like? I think it looks like a sitting at the table with the Board of
supervisors far more often. And asking to be included in the work. So I hope that you will respond to those thoughts of eager to hear what you have
to say. Mystic's it. Sorry. Thank you. Mister Chair, Budget chair and I'm actually just reviewing budget
presentation from the Fairfax County. >> And yeah, it looks like they have given us 50%. 51.5% of the general fund Dispersement for 2026. But
riches, there is a or from I guess in the previous year we have been seeing a decline. And I think now they're kind of getting at that number, even though the cost our
request from our teacher bays and the need the collective bargaining is much higher. Now there's one slide that says will begin in budget request is. Largest in terms of like
it's the largest requests and dumps of dollar in history. I just want to say this is also because we have the first time in Fairfax County. There is collected binding agreement in
place and the teachers have the right 2. It just teaches you need guy, too. You don't ask for the raise. They looking for if you do not do
this, it's lot Gandhi staff school school staff was going going to leave us. This is a affair, you issue and morning.
I guess I did want to ask burden out of the store under 68 million dollars. We had asked with inquiries what how much is was going for the
teacher compensation in dollar amount? to 40 with salaries
and benefits? 240 million soul I had this is I think the don't the bequest from, you know, from all of us and is to meet requests this first time
in Fairfax County, the have CB 8 and if it and all of this Fairfax County staff members are really looking forward to this budget to be approved and
the definitely odd in a in a crunch right now. Also, I would just keep advocating that we get the quest met by our staff and this I don't
know how that's going to happen. But I guess we have to move to that goal. Thank you so much. >> Thank you. Miss Dixon and
Mister McElveen. Thank you, sir. thank you, Miss So I pretty surprised to hear the news about the meals tax and
that that would be undertaken with such a little inspiration as essentially cut property taxes opposed to do something positive for our community.
Those who lived through the last meals tax work not only was certainly a big part of that Mr. Moon and others will recall that. You know, we
worked closely with the Board of Supervisors at that time to put forward a proposal that made education the of that
work and I just I I fended find it shocking all that's thrown aside. And this point. So I guess the question I have
at this point and I don't know if you can answer us burden. Dr Reid. Is there anything that we can do inject education back into that
conversation or has that train left the station? >> Well, it's not including that there's nothing for the meals tax that is included in the county executive's
advertise budget. So it would be my thinking that everything it's all up for discussion because it's not included in form in the average the county
executive's advertise budget. So think there's more conversations that can be had about that. Well, that's helpful. And I think, you know, to mount these earlier point, I think we need to come
armed and ready to have that discussion when we meet with them. And I think 2 other point, I think we just need to have one spokesperson because
we are going to be up speak at that meeting. So. That's my advocacy. And I will conducted a terrible quick off of a point. Mister McCAbe brought
up. I'll send around the lake. >> Once the videos posted tomorrow, so in your free time, you can go back and kind of watch the conversation around the meals tax in particular. Very interesting and insightful. So also that
around tomorrow, Miss Anderson. Thanks for the information. >> So I want to say that I I believe strongly that we're at a tipping point with property
tax and our county as a continued funding mechanism. So I kind of understand with the Board Supervisors is with this, not to say that it's not disappointing to hear, but they came back with, but it's
also not unexpected based on what we've heard so far. So I do want to keep that in mind. I agree with Miss Mayor and we need new path forward in terms of how we're going to do this moving forward. We have to
change our model. We have to stop in business as usual, which is where we are now. And we have to stop allowing ourselves to be pitted against each other based on the way
the system is set up and we are loud voices and we can work to change the system. And so I would very much like us to go to the Board of Supervisors next week as
partners in this that we understand where they're coming from the same way. We hope that they understand where we are. So I think that that's the only path forward here Mr. Byrne, I did have a
question for you. In addition to our EFC PRC program, which I understand provides us a different. Benefit for our staff and other other
localities do. I've long since guest. We likely have more staff in our schools. Then other every other divisions
around the state, which is why we have more or acute. You know, more people in those srq positions. And so I guess my question is, have we ever done any analysis to determine that
has a potential? You know, we talked a lot of teachers that they want go to this other location because I'm going to get more money. And the bill please make sure that you're looking at the staffing numbers in school because all
of that comes from somewhere. Thank you not paying people more money. It's likely because there are more people and so. Have ever done any
analysis on that? >> We had we may have them. You may remember that we had a RS, do a staffing and study in
February of 20 to I think and that's online on board docks where they did a comparison over staffing standards. The state, of course, also frequently looks at that. And
my understanding is all 132 divisions in the commonwealth exceed so cute. The U.S. accused considered to be the
bare minimum. you're right. If you go work in Prince William, you're going to encounter larger class sizes than you would in Fairfax, right? So we we have a trade off. And I think that we again.
>> If we're looking at all of the partners that worsened and the table with, I do think we need to be honest about what our options are when we get to the point because we're about to have more difficult conversations in terms of our funding moving forward,
potentially. And so I would very much be interested in figuring out the path forward on those conversations to so that we can hot R our primary goal here is is I mean,
obviously our goal is to make sure that our staff are well taken care of and acknowledge for the work that they do with our students. But the end goal here is to make sure students are educated. And so we've got
to figure out a path forward on that as well. So I just want us to make sure that we aren't going in next week. Ready for battle. I want us to I want us to lock arms instead
of being an adversarial position. So >> thank you. And this lady. >> Yeah, I agree with my colleague Miss Mayor Miss
Anderson having said that, I do think it's frustrating sometimes to look at how power points lay down and how somebody who's not quite in the know would interpret power point looking, particularly at
the county compensation slide that's in their budget per point regarding the cost of living of 2% increase. And that's for you know, sort of I guess that non bargaining
units. But if you look under each of these, there's performance merit and longevity increases us every category. And we have not been
doing steps. We don't. We know we've its established the top of our teaching skills about $50,000 less than the top of the prince when county teaching scale. And my my point in this is we've done across the board. I do know
the collective bargaining moving forward does increase steps and a lower overall percentage increase. But I just want to public to understand that when you look at 70%, that's a 7%. That's
not greedy. Okay. It's not pretty at all. In terms of cost of living. and and the fact that educators are the most educated underpaid profession certainly in this
country, not every country. Lot of countries that review of this work but just want you know, bring that point because we don't have merit pay. If we did, we wouldn't all collectively to be trying to
educate all the killed children in the building. There was a point when there was merit pay and I think it ended about the time I came into the system. So I think it was and it in late 80's. And that's because it was competition. And you didn't
want competition right? I don't want to be a best practice person who might be doing something very effectively, not share of my colleagues because I want more money. I mean, we're not in a position to merit pay and I
think are, you know, committees just didn't understand that. And same with performance. You know, I mean, that's the same thing. I mean, you know, just because you get exceeds across the board an evaluation, someone else gets
means that doesn't mean anything. Montero Lee and so I just want to bring that up. I also think and my next question is in assumption that
Ming which based on looking at this that we're not going to get exactly what we need. Although I find it interesting that the board of super know off the county's 118 million, but the increase for us as
125 Million. But we're incredibly different in size and scope. took just to put those 2 numbers next to each other is just incredulous from
my perspective. And we do need to work with them. But I that's an interesting budget point for me where they claim productions in places, but then their overall increased a themselves 118 million compared to U.S. 425. My
question, though, is assuming we're going to have to cut. That goes back to the bargaining table, correct? As to how we would do that. So
the final budget decisions, of course, rest with the And if we're not able. >> Based on the transfer from the county to meet our collective bargaining
agreement, then that would trigger reopening in that agreement. If that becomes part of the calculus to achieve the budget.
>> So to my colleagues point regarding class sizes, hypothetically, I would not want to vote to raise class size because the impact it has on the teaching. But that could be something that's
bargained to maintain percent raise. I don't want to discuss this evening. McCain might or might not okay. Maybe bargain that because that something reserved for the bargaining table. But I do know that.
>> There will be likely. >> Quite a bit of conversation as this process involves and we'll continue to provide data to support the conversation as
it evolves. >> Okay. Thank you, I guess. But the better point was to just reiterate my colleagues point that our class sizes, I think are better than most for trying to restrictions and we'd like to keep him that
way. miss Sizemore Heizer. Thank you. And I know this just came out today. The county meeting was just today. So this time to digest >> discuss it. I want it. I
agree my colleagues. I think we need to figure out a way to work collectively and collaboratively with our county partners. I think we all have the same goal to do
what's best for our county and for school system. So I think there's a lot of room. They're in the process of how he be collaborative. Having said that, I also think that we need to balance that with the
state in the state constitution, the mandate that the school board runs the school's right. And so we just need to find a way we make sure that the management of the schools, the governance of
the school's rest with the school board and were collaborate with our county partners who asked North strong supporters of public education. But there is a balance when you sometimes do things. When you combine
things a lot, a muddy those waters in terms of who's really making the decisions for a system. So just things to think about as you pursue this path, maintaining our control as per the state law
and also working collaboratively. I want to put that in the I'm toss this out is an ideas. I'm listening where I'm hearing. You know, we have one hour to meet next week and is a lot of us to
speak in. Can we speak with more coordinated voice? And I haven't even spoken to our budget sure about this. But I wonder if there's a way that we can put out may be asking is for feedback and having some joint remarks that can be
delivered by the budgetary budget chair and vice chair doesn't mean that others can't speak, but it will perhaps help at least gather some thoughts that we all want to share, that we don't have to each individually say them. So
just something to think about. If you want to comment on, that's fine and we don't have to do it. I'm just toss not an idea to make a record not remarks towards the county. So beyond that, I look for the digging into this. I know this
is for the beginning of their process as well. So there may be changes. Coming up. As far as the meals tax. I do hope some of the funding for the meals tax will go to help fund
additional services. Whether it's for the schools. And I think we could also maybe next week talk a little bit about where we have found deficiencies and where we have
found. We also working in partnership with the county to recognize that we can't keep putting pressure on real estate taxes. And we also do our part to find her efficiencies might be part of
the conversation next week. Thank you. Thank I'll take a brief turn. Them will to background. >> When I heard his numbers
there, there was some concern concern not just on the impact to our public school system because as we all know, sitting around this table. A deficit of 8 shortfall, a gap,
whatever know, you know, we're we want to phrase of 120 million dollars. There's not many levers that we can pull to make that up. I mean, pay class sizes, even if we start digging into programmatic reductions, it's
going to be few and far between that we can actually come up with But I think my bigger concern or at least a
concerned of it's similar highs was on slide. 3 of the county executive's presentation where he talks about the uncertainty regarding the national economy
because this budget is based on numbers that were promulgated last fall late last fall that last fall. Nonetheless. And as we almost
by the hour, see news of of reductions to the federal workforce, whether it's federal employees or contractors or those Associated Industries, it's probably going to get worse. And that's going to have
significant budget ramifications not only in future years, but as we go through this process throughout the rest of the winter into the spring. So that's something that I'm
keeping in the back of my mind, which dovetails into a comment Anderson made. The baseline of the budget. Right now, the county executive proposing averages of $638 tax
increase on the average homeowner which some people will tolerate that. We know that some people won't. So I try to stay very conscious. You know, that's not our
decision. We're so elected leaders in the county. So I try to keep that in mind as well. And I think, you at the end of the day, please call your supervisor and talk to
them. I tried to talk to as many I can, but please help me out and pick up the phone and call your supervisor because having being able to have those conversations to Miss
Mirren's point. It really puts us as partners at the table and that's going to be very important not only this year, but going into the future. So with that will do go back and the first Dr Anderson. Oh, I'm
chair. Fresh your hand is up. For your first round.
>> fish or meat it. So we're not hearing you. And hear us into the mind. We had a mic
check. All right. We'll sidestep Mister Freshly question for Thank I appreciate
>> Party like it's 2020 with COVID over here. So I allowed speak true. need I'm not meet
demand. We can hear you. >> We can hear you. Can you hear us?
>> Wish want A commission. >> Okay. We're having technical difficulties. we'll let it figure this out. Will see you all. Hear me now. you
know, yes, we're back. Sorry. Dr Reid. A previous budget conversation. You talked a bit about. >> The savings and
efficiencies that we found what this budget reflects, including. I think the said that found 60 million dollars officials and maybe you could
read the 50 million or and and of the work that's being done. I think it's important to mention that one of are having this conversation.
>> We have identified I think we're in the neighborhood of 50 million dollars that we do not have in this year's budget. That was in a previous budget. We also have a chart
actually that shows how much money our budget has saved over the last several years this bird. And I think we'll be providing that shortly. We can certainly to the board
prior to the joint meeting with Board of Supervisors must bird. And you have to have those notes in front of you may be those smaller. I'm commenting, but I do think to
your point, Mr. we're going to work to make sure we enumerate those cost-cutting measures and we continue to look at efficiencies within our budget to make sure that we're being
thoughtful stewards of the public monies. >> And to the conversation from my I would be supportive
of coming up something more collective to share at the meeting. To make the conversation Warford full.
>> Thank you. Lee, did you have follow on? >> I If you look in the approved budget document in the appendix is always a
pretty lengthy 6 section about all of the reductions that we've made over the past. When to go back to 2009. So a long
time. And the total amount that we've cut from your budget since then is over 800 million dollars. And we
have a pretty significant and 23 is my recollection as well. I think what we haven't done is talked a lot about those cuts and but they >> have certainly been
verified. And I think we need to think several board members have asked for us to surface those perhaps emirate, those more thoughtfully bit we
continue to try to do more with less. So I know we'll be able to provide those numbers, Mr. McDaniel. >> Thank you. go back us and
we'll keep it You can to get you on the list. The first one was Dr. Anderson fallen instrument. >> Thank you. Will be super
quick as one of what members who've asked for numbers in terms of a savings that you read. When do you anticipate we will have that information?
I don't know when I next. Budget meeting is a work session. We have the macro numbers. What we are working on is the enumeration.
>> Of the specifics like program pieces. But we do have the numbers. So I would think within the next week we could have that information for you. Okay. Thank you.
>> The other thing that I think we should raise in this conversation with the Board of Supervisors and I do lend my support to having a an organized discussion rather
than being in 50,000 different directions because, you know, the climate is bleak. I do appreciate you know what's happening in our area. We have a lot of federal employees who have lost their jobs. So
there's a lot at stake here. But we also have to also raise in this discussion. And I don't know if this is how we're going to get those topics. You know, the potential of the impacts of
our own federal dollars. You know, that is going to be something we would have we will have to deal with if that occurs that I hope we can raise in this conversation with the Board of Supervisors.
I mean, granted, might be in a similar position, but we still need to instruct the out 100 and needy. >> Plus, will sit student silos. That number here.
That's all. Thank you, Mr. >> Followed by I guess the school's much a You know, student, any We're top budget
on And then we do not make a presentation on that. We have a chilly meeting with the county Board of Supervisors next week next to stay. But after that. We waited. We just
basically waiting on TR. We need a president. I think back we make a presentation to the county Board of Supervisors, even though they already know
request. April 22nd. And county Supplies make a decision on transfer to on Beta 6. That's what market
disembark up day. I'm hoping that you must to do with. The gap. In the to 221 million dollars. As we do scatter for
work sessions amongst us and have discussion about potentially we want address gap so that by the time portable supervisors has to
make a decision know what kind cuts. The school board may have to institute. Whether it's going to be program class
size compensation. I mean, don't have to make those decisions. what could be potentially gun? I you probably remember stomach then. because working with the
county side in those that, know, school board we those discussion and presenting to county supervisors to let them
know that these may be the consequences. Yeah, and on that so yes, we have our joint meeting next week. The board will advertise the rate, which
is many people know caps. The maximum revenue. >> Based on the highest advertise rate. So I think at that point that would be probably the best timing to have maybe an additional work
session. Once we have a better kind of understanding of what that Max revenue number is going to look at. So I will work with the chair to schedule more and also work with the chair to come up with
some either a joint statement or talking point that we can share around for a joint meeting next Thank you. Miss
Mary. >> I thank you colleagues for sharing your thoughts and support for working together. I appreciate and would love to
have the budget chair and vice chair of share remarks. But I would like us to get more pointed in 2 what our asks, not just to marks, but asking for specific things. So kind
of outline too categories of asks, one of them is to meet together regularly. What does that look like for now until the budget vote is that the budget committees is that the superintendent and the county executive? What does that look
like? The second one is to start creating agendas where we're looking at past to consider to improve the budgeting process. Slash create more revenue. So that's
things like. Discussing discussing setting an established percentage. It's going to annually transferred so we could stop wasting our time with this discussion of its 0. 10% less or not. We can
all planned better to win. We know what to expect. Exploring the revenue generation options for facilities where that's the public, private partnership. All those things that we're gonna talk May 6th.
They have the financial knowledge for that. What what kinds of financial analysis is happening by agency. We do our own. We do projections, honor student populations. Let's share that working together on
collective bargaining. You know, let's let's do that more effectively. I think we could take visits to our schools and show them what's happening. We can also visit some of the county facilities. But, you
know, go to libraries quite a lot and also, what about our plans to get the money from the state? Because Mr. McCAnn, you mentioned it about $600
more per taxpayer. I'm a call that Mr. McKay saying it was over 1000 with that missing jailer money I want to say was 1200 to can find it. So Dr
Reid, I would love live again to hear your comments. Colleagues. Can we bring to the Board of Supervisors meeting copies of the executive limitation reports where you have shown those particularly thinking of H r
of safety, things that are common to both of us. And the one thing that I will continue to go after, though, is we're not paying for law enforcement services. We are not going to
pay for crossing guards and we will not be, you know, saddled with that that work. That is the county's work to protect adults and children. So I do
think we can come with data for that meeting. I think we also. >> Maybe can do a synthesis like an a the although I can also provide those directly.
that's whatever your preferences are at this point. And Mystics it. Thank you.
Miss Miss Miss to Danielle. I'm just pointing to the comment you made about the Kurds slide from the county budget said the. >> the economy national
Conneaut region will get impacted. I do understand that. most of our employees, I mean, many of our employees affected workers are working in the government contracting
space. they're definitely getting impacted. However, there's a downwards trend in the housing prices already divorce on not said about in the other channels, too. But
that does don't trends on the prices of the homes is already started to happen. It made enough if elected in your particular neighborhoods. But that's going to decrease
amount off. I believe of amount we pay in taxes per year. So even that that person, Beijing Griese is happening, it's going to maybe actor dollar value. It's going
to be to do list. That could be the reason. The last point I wanted to say is these are we are here for the Fairfax County children, Fairfax
County, you know, and people who live here. So it's it makes these are not out at a separate set of student run of come from somewhere else.
They're all that or is it some the children of the residence? So ultimately looking out for them and giving them the best education we can get. They can get in the in the country.
People move to Fairfax. One reason and the believe in the business and the vision of one Fairfax. And I want to say that this time of uncertainity, but it would be
what's going on. I think we just have join hands and work together and and just make it a better place for all our students and staff members. Thank you.
>> Great. Thank you. And seeing no others as of
05:59PM, the meeting the
Budget Committee is adjourned.
>> In part, we are now. >> Transitioning from the Budget Committee meeting to the work session on middle school. Start times this February 18th 2025 school board work Session is called
to order at 6. 00:07PM, is what I can see where the light. >> Mr. submitted written request to attend this meeting virtually his residence
in the Providence District due to medical reasons. >> All those in favor of approving Mr. Fishes request, please raise your hand. That is Mister Dunn Mystics it Miss mayor and misleading, Mr.
Moon, Mr. McDaniel this Anderson Mr. McElveen Dr Anderson and myself. That is unanimous for those present. Mr. Fresh. Can we please
tester Mike? Again? Mr. if you're trying to speak, we can't hear you. Mr. Fishes
shows are needed on our end. I'm not sure if it's on your end are. But now we can see.
You still can't hear you. Can please reminding him? I'm here. Okay. We could be Thank you, Mr. Press. I will turn the meeting over to Doctor
Rita for the presentation and then the conversation. >> Thank you. Sizemore Heizer. So this evening and I'm pleased to introduce our chief
operating officer and Munich who has been working on this project honestly for over a year. we're very pleased to provide you a presentation that looks at options. Both
the options you looked at in December as well as a new hybrid option that the team has worked hard to at this time. Let me turn the presentation over to Mr.
Munich. Thanks, Dr Reid. >> Just a couple introductions of some teammates that are here with me tonight to my left is doctor Preto. The
owner, President Prismatic Services Incorporated, our consultant. She's been early consulting on this project as well to my right. I've got party and write a R executive
director of transportation and have 3 more teammates in the wings behind you. Paul Hatcher, our director of administrative services, and he that includes community use cases any specific questions
or later, Michelle Phillips, the front row over there. She's one of our 2 assistant directors and transportation and she leads the routing team. And then Tom Horne on
the side over here, executive director of student activities and athletics cases. Some specific questions I can answer on that. With that will go to the next slide. And I will turn over Doctor Dr Prana
for a little bit of background. >> I'm just going to try to put us on the same page again with some bits of background information to make sure that
the conversation has some of the same initial facts. Current situation in the school system just to remind everyone right now, medals bulls are at 7.30, secondary schools are at a high schools
are at a 10 and elementary schools are, you know, in my notes all over the board from a 10 to 9.20, predominately from 8.30, ish to 9.20, the
objective that led to this project just to keep the end in mind was to develop an action plan to help the school board attain its goal of starting middle school at or
after 08:00AM while keeping secondaries and high schools at or after 08:00AM. And so some other things to keep in
mind. We do have evidence that the 2015, 16 middle school secondary high school start time changes resulted in Fairfax High school students getting more sleep. But middle
school students getting less sleep. We have a couple different pieces to that. There was a research study that was published in 2017
doctors Temkin Lou and the talked about sleep amount of sleep detained, looked a to the high school's 3 of the secondary schools and a variety of the middle schools
did some good spoke Pre Post survey work. One of the things that they found was that fears about sports were not sports changes were not realized. They also found that with the start time change in 2015, 16,
your high school students were sleeping for 30 more minutes on average. They're going to bed 10 minutes later, but they're getting up about 40 minutes, 40 minutes later in the morning. At the same time,
your middle school students we're getting less sleep. They switched from 8.38. O'clock to 7.30, and they were getting 15 minutes, less sleep. And during that is part of that
study, they were reporting more daytime sleepiness, and more struggles to stay awake. We also had a memo that was provided to Fairfax County in 2018 on the overall result of
the multitude studies that were done by various researchers as a result of the 2015, 16 changes. And that also found middle school students were loss of sleep. About 30 minutes in some cases
and 15 minutes. In other cases, depending on whether they were secondary are at a middle school. So we have evidence that the changes that were made in the last time around in the case of the high
school students moving them to a later start time had its intended effect. High school students were getting more sleep. The unintended effect of the SEC middle school students going to an earlier start time was that they are
we're getting less sleep. And in order to provide some context and it's it's part of Appendix II that Prismatic submitted and a draft report.
We did do an update of the You know, the the report that was provided to the district in 2015, 16, 2014 for blueprint included a literature review and some results of that. We
to update that as well as to look at specific impacts a middle school students. And so we've got a number of pieces in Appendix II. We just provided to you the the
abstract and some conclusions from those studies in a run through really briefly, just so we all have some of the same research in mind for athletics. We've got 3
different studies and they're ranging from see 2017 down to 2014 that increased sleep duration first and increased quality of sleep for
adolescents makes for better athletes. It reduces injuries and increases athletic performance. Looking at other physical impacts. We included a couple different studies on
the role of poor sleep for adolescents. And later onset use of alcohol. Those are really interesting study that started with middle school students measured them over
the course of 4 years. And those with poor sleep habits in year one increase their odds of drinking by your 4, which is when they're in high school we also have a couple
of studies in there that talk about insufficient sleep among middle schoolers and early adolescence leading to more frequent soda consumption and less frequent vegetable
consumption as well as precursors for be sitting couple of studies that looked at that several of those studies they were able to tie it to earlier school start times leading to the loss of
sleep. Moving out of physical outcomes and into school performance outcomes. The couple of studies and they're ranging from. 2015 to 2022.
the talk about less sleep for middle schoolers resulting in lower school attendance, higher out of school, suspensions. Multiple outcomes in terms of tardiness being
correlated to lower lesser sleep and or earlier start times for middle schoolers as well as negative health effects. Mental health effects. Looking at academics.
There were a number of studies included in there that talk about the impact of middle school start times on academics. There was an interest really interesting one done in 2012 which looked
explicitly at middle school students in Wake County, North Carolina. And it's interesting is it's also a very large school district and they look to the variation in academic performance at with Daivd
school. Start time as the. Variable and they found a 2% gain when middle school started later. that was on masks And so I think that that that was compelling. Another
one associated earlier school start times with Leslie and also lower academic performance. That was a 2017 study. And then finally, you know, one study that I think
speaks to some of the concerns that were raised in some of the forums is if we end up changing elementary school students to earlier start times, you know what, what is that? What is the impact there? And there was 2021
study done by Dr Meltzer and others that really actually looked at that and looking at a longitudinal study, large-scale representative, they looked at elementary
school start time shift from 09:00AM to 08:00AM. And they found that that had no impact on elementary school students, sleep or daytime sleepiness, so that but your system of the earlier research that we've
seen that earlier academic start times for elementary students do not result in lower academic performance. So a lot's packed into the one piece of Appendix C that is
the literature review of the other part of Appendix II is the case. Studies. And then couple of other points that we think that are important to
keep in mind nationally. 66% of middle schools are ready, started 08:00AM or later based on the most recent data that we have. And then finally what led us to this point we've
received substantial community input in from a variety of ways. One of spring form attendance across the multiple in person and the one online
forum head over 700 attendees. Our surveys in the fall had 5400 student responses. 8200 parent responses and 1400 staff responses. In addition,
we did a spring survey of bus drivers and attendants that has 600 responses. So we've had substantial input that led us to the development of the options that were provided to you in December. And then the
subsequent additional option later. >> Thanks, Dr. run the next slide option summary. I just
want to take a minute to go through this slowly you know, we saw back in December. We've got a new option in there. See too, and just want to take a minute or 2 to walk through it
just to make sure we have have that fresh in our mind for the discussions. So on the left side, you can see our currents schools start time, option or
schedule option a as elementary going first. Middle secondary going second middle school. 3rd and then high school 4th got a run time in 90 minutes. And that's
relative to our current runtime of 110. And it could be no cost or 0 to 25 buses or 0 to 1.8 million dollars.
Option B as part of the elementary school. The 8 o'clock start time is going first. Then secondary and high schools. Both of both at 8.30, heading back for middle school
at 9. And then the final group of elementary schools forth Option C and that and Option B also has a minute run time, 30 minutes, less than what we
currently do. 20 to 30 buses. And 42,001.1 million option C. Is again, the 8 o'clock group of Elementary going first, secondary and high schools
sticking together, an 8.30, going back to the elementary school for the 9 o'clock. Ron and then getting middle schools at 9.30, C 2 to ration
that Dr. Reid referred to that. We had Dr Preyed on her team to take a look at after December. It has a 90 minute see has a 90 minute run and it
was cost neutral to 1.1 million and potentially 0 to 15 buses. The reason we asked for the iteration was, as I've mentioned once or twice already, our current runtime
is 110 minutes. We transportation, we're. We're not as confident in the ability to get down to an 80
minute run time to shave 30 minutes off of the Dr Pratto and her team have a lot of confidence in our reading team, which I do as well. And the new Tyler routing system that we're implementing right
now as we speak. But we liked C 2 and we just wanted to have a run time that maybe we've we felt more confident in which lead to see to with the elementary going first 8, the
first group of them. The second Daryn High School. Stay in second at 8.30, back for elementary at 9.10 and then middle schools at 9.40, Sunday
is a reminder that was the option that just had moving middle schools 90 minutes later to 9 o'clock and option EU was a shift of all schools.
30 minutes to the right. And option D was potentially the most expensive 6.4 to 17.3 million. If we went with that one. Kevin, next slide.
Please. The Office of Transportation recommendation. picked option C 2, the new iteration change concentrated the middle school, some
incremental changes at high school and elementary school level could be cost neutral and it was it. You were on time in our opinion, we left
option E on there as well. That was what we had recommended back in December. And we still felt that that was a suitable option as well. If we decide to go that route.
Instead and the reasons for that are listed there below the next turn it back to Dr Pre so she can talk about Prismatic commendations from
those alternatives. >> So I'd like to emphasize that all of the options that we provided t meet RFP criteria. And so for that at
that level, prismatic, completely agnostic as terms of which option might be the best. We did know that the much of the language of the
RFP that was used to kick this project off mirror that of what was used developing the 2014 RFP. And for that reason, perhaps
>> the. >> you serve secondary at or after 8.30, was not used in the original RFP. But if you were to, you know, try to marry both the intentions of
the school board in the RFP as well as the body of evidence that indicates that secondary should be at a 30 year later, Prismatic would fall into the category of saying that
Options BC, and C 2 are all meet. Both sets of criteria. They are all similar in terms of cost. They are all similar terms of the number of elementary schools that will
change start times. And just to give you some data on that, we looked at the number of elementary schools that would change more or change. More than 30 minutes guys are going
more than 30 minutes earlier going more than 30 minutes later. >> Bcn seat who are all pretty much equivalent 69, that would have that major change. 58 in
be 58 in C 61 in C 2. >> We then looked at how many elementary schools would be at the. >> Earlier start time versus the later start time. And each one of the options that turned out to be exactly the same.
That wasn't by design. It just ended up being that way. You would have 67 schools at the earlier start time and 72 schools at the later start time. He's one of those options. The average start
time change for elementary schools is again about the same on average be option elementary schools. Go about 18 minutes earlier, an option
C they go about 28 minutes earlier and then option C 2, they go about 23 minutes earlier. And again, those are all averages. So, you know, not much of a difference in
terms of what might be the change impact for the elementary population. So we really did not have a favorite within those, but we recognize that that seat. Who is the the
point of commonality with the Transportation department and the C O the only reasons we do not recommend a D and E because they do not AP and
other body guidelines for starting secondary at or after 8.30. Next slide. Kevin.
>> this slide. We were hoping what we're trying to do was show the alignment between the transportation team and Prismatic in term of art. In terms of our recommendations, you can see they're just laid
it out again. That Prismatic recommended BC and C 2 and C 2 was recommendation of the Office of Transportation Bnc.
We did not recommend due to potential cost and the reduce runtime risk again. It just cutting that much time of her current runtime. >> Was a little bit more than the more risk than we were
willing to take. >> And then option again, it's just listed on there. We had that in December and we feel that's a good backup option as well. Kevin, next slide,
please. And this is last slide before discussion. And this is the options of parallel. A sequential. We recommend parallel with the boundary
adjustments in school year. 26 27. You can see a lot of the reason why there. But he is it allows the projects to better inform each other one
disruptive period for the for the community. You know, stakeholders. It allows us time to fully implement that Tyler routing system that we
have going on right now and getting a year of getting used to it and time for proper change management, you know, good communications plan with us in the boundary team in
terms of trying to look ahead of potential problems, getting some solutions and they're working with the community for their engagement. Everything you would have in a in a good change management plan to
hopefully make it a very seamless and smooth implementation. And 26 27. And that is the last slide for the
presentation. And we can shift over to discussion if that works for everybody. Kevin, would you mind putting that slide 3 back up there? That's probably the best one to >> Thank you, everybody. I'm
gonna go ahead and start with miss mayor involving MS Anderson. Thank you. This continues to be fascinating work. So, you know, the goal of this is to allow children to arrive at school. Better
ready to learn and succeed as the result of a healthy night's sleep. >> This is the operational analysis and recommendation. This would move the children in and out at more optimal times to meet the objective.
But we also have parameters that influence how well we can achieve that goal. And so I'm interested in understanding more about the implications of this operational recommendation on the provision of instruction,
namely how the instructional schedule fair along with such an operational change. Howell staffing be impacted based on reliable data, not generalizations. So first
questions about their principles input, which is on Page 10 11 of the report. I'd like to know Dre how their input and recommendation was considered by you and the
Office of Transportation Services in developing options and selecting the recommendation of see to any. So. Thank you, Miss Mayor. I
know that Mr. certainly met with executive board's for principals associations and engage in conversations. So perhaps Mr. chair, how those
recommendations influenced the recommendations. >> Yes, well, we did have conversations going throughout with the different principle associations as we were
leading into this. But I'd say many of their points were already on the table either from venues where we got input or from other constituents. So
a lot of these were being considered already in terms of some of impacts on after-school sports, different things like that. >> specifically, you know, I'm
unclear about how the instructional spear experience or daily student schedule was considered to, for instance, and some of the principal feedback. There's a a comment elementary school concerned about the reading block and
lunchtime being disrupted. We're middle school concerned about field trips no longer being feasible. Is this accurate? Was this considered? >> The lunch block is not
independent fix time spot in there. So the lunch block which shift with the start finish time of the school. As long as it falls between 10 and 2, which is a federal guidance. Same with the field
trips. A field trip was not a fix independent blocked from 9 to one. It could float. However, we needed to flow throughout the day. So any of these changes did not require
any changes of instructional blocks. He wouldn't lose language arts in the morning. You wouldn't have an impact on reading later and had a little discussion during the Middle School principals Association meeting today about that as well.
>> Well, that's a relief to hear. The comment blood. Number 6 regarding our staff, our most important asset, the number of staff that may need to shift teaching levels middle school to high school center because the family
needs when we moved to early start times for middle school, many staff had to leave to go to high school as a result. Is there a quantifiable data to substantiate the quote number of staff that may need to
shift teaching levels by proposed implementation time of school year. 26 27. I don't have that data and it seems that would be a bit
speculative because we to my knowledge surveyed staff about. >> What those moves might be. But perhaps I know you did do some surveys, Mr. was at one of those
>> no, ma'am, it was But I did talk with have been talking with HR Solomon and he's going to try to see what he can pull together. Data wise from I 2014, 15, 16 to see if that
data shares anything. But there's not a lot of why in any of that in terms of transferring why people left, why they moved. It wasn't a family issue.
>> Yeah, thanks. also agree that it's speculative and it's also based on 10 years ago when life is very different and who you know who's going to plan to have a baby or, you know, do whatever is going to happen in life. Similarly,
students having jobs before after school. It seems speculative. And as a side note, this raises the question that parking I mean, all that stuff that we have data on who needs a parking spot to go. So that wasn't the point. I also
want to mention so that was my first set of questions. My second one is about the schedule considerations which are in the chapter 4 of prison work. One of them was about
bus ridership. You know what percentage of our students ride buses by school level and of those assigned a bus service. What percentage actually ride the bus round trip or one way? You know,
those assigned who don't ride, what are they doing? I mean, this is important to know because of providing buses to kids who aren't taking them. Then that's a different challenge. We also talk about safe routes to school. So they're these things. I don't
see where their intersecting you know, I have other questions about the neighborhood and community services and neighborhood and community services is an entirely department of Fcps or
is that also partly managed by Fairfax County? >> It is. So we manage community use the scheduling of our facilities to all the potential community users. The
county's team, which is neighborhood Community Services and Cs. They are the go-between between us and all the different athletic basketball, Fairfax County,
athletic community. So you kind of have 3 groups that are being scheduled in our schools. Our schools and their
related organizations PTA PTO boosters. That's number one. Then number 2 is and C S which is the county and all those f CAC athletic programs. And
then the 3rd is the on and CS Group which would be Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, religious groups H.O.A. as they come directly into and we schedule
them in the remaining spots. >> Got it. always fascinated communities. So that's another plug for us to work more closely with the county and also I think it's important to know are we talking about school associated events like
PTA sponsored clubs and even our own athletics programs as opposed to truly outside of fcps organisms like sports clubs. I think that needs to be pulled out. Thank you.
Smell going to go back. The next miss Anderson fall, but Mr. Fish and then. >> I want to start by saying that. I think all of us understand the importance
having our kids get to sleep necessary. So I don't think any of us here are questioning whether or not this is necessary for kids and I believe that I've said that since the beginning to any
anyone that I've talked about this, I am extremely concerned about the fact that we have been advertising. This is a middle school start time change when it impacts every
single time. So we have to stop calling it that we have to start calling it start school, start time changes because it is disingenuous for us to call it anything else when we have an entire
community of people that are not necessarily just in the 2, sometimes 3 grades that we're talking about. So I would advocate strongly for us changing that in terms of the
way that we're discussing this. The other thing is, was any consideration given to surveying all families? incident?
>> We attempted to do that in the fall of 2024, the surveys were designed for all families. >> Is it distributed to all families? The district's
distribution was left to the school system. And as I understand it, perhaps some miscommunications happened and they ended up. >> Primarily, they only distributed within the middle school community. So I don't think that we can make. >> I will just say that I
don't think we can make decisions until we actually follow through with the survey has designed. So that's one aspect of it. The other aspect of it is where with the surveys that were conducted,
where they included in all 7 languages that we traditionally do. The surveys >> They were I don't remember if it was all 7, but we definitely provided at least 2 other 3 other alternative
languages. I would have to go back and check. 98% of the responses came in in English. However. Okay. So that is also
concerned concerning to me I want to make sure that we are moving forward with accurate information and feedback from the entire community because this will affect the entire community. I have a number of
questions here and I'm RT on the West Front. Go back. But I will I will say that the other aspect of this thinking of and this is just because you mentioned Wake County when I went and looked at Wake
County, they have not made a decision about their high school start times. So yes, there middle school start times or later. But their high school start times are at our middle school. Start times. So
I think it's somewhat disingenuous. Also to say that when we see the report things like that and it says 67 prove like 67% of middle school start times start later than 8
at the 8.30. How many high schools start at 7.30. So again, we're I don't want to just keep moving this as a way to potentially look like we're
solving a problem, but not I think that we need to make sure that we are going forward in a very concise and straightforward way with all members of the community so that we bring them all with
us. So it doesn't look like we're forcing decisions down. The other thing that I would like to put out there. And I know that there's a huge push from from several communities related to getting this done
for next year. We are in the middle of an inning of a entire change model going on across our county. The day care system cannot support the
current change related to what's happening with the go back to work. That's going go back to the office. That's that's going on within the federal government. And we have 0 idea what our traffic patterns are going going to do related to that. So I cannot
say strongly enough that we should follow the recommendation that we at least need to put this until 26 27 so that we can have more opportunity take those things
into account. We are already on the go back. Let's miss Anderson, Mr. Fresh Fall by Dr, Anderson, Mr. Prisk ahead. Thank you. Some questions for
Mister Newark, this purchase. second. It's it's very light. I don't that's on our end or year. And we can barely hear you, Mr. Fish, I think that honor. And if you can give a second or having to fix between online and
>> person one 0nd. Thank you for the patients. Mr. Fish, can you try again? Is this
better? Hello, Mr. Fish. It's not. Can we? to Anderson with that mess up. What you're trying to do. Unfortunately, I think we kind of need to be so
could please. Thank you for your patience as we do. The technical difficulties. I would like my 2 seconds back. Just get could be reset his
time. Please. >> We are that >> Craig and Mr. Fresh. Is
this any better? Yes, that is that a little bit. >> And I just created the infinity Mr. New York once the
technology onboarding has completed. How quickly after that, do you think will be able to see whether there are you know, increased?
Efficiencies that result from that that might that are thinking a little bit here.
>> Mr. Fresh. That's a great I may have to ask one of my teammates here just because I haven't implemented transportation system at this level before. So I don't know
how quickly they may see results. I don't know Paul or Dr Pre. if you have any. >> I thought not mistaken. It's August is when they will be finished with the installation.
>> Yes, sir. The implementation started at the very end of January and it should be fully implemented by the beginning of this coming school year. 25 26 and at that
point will start. should be as long as the pilot on the mobile data tablets is successful. Over the summer, we should be implementing the
mobile data tablets as well. So yes, we should have the Tyler routing system up and running at the beginning of the school year.
>> I can pause for the other answer. Mr. Got a judgment. >> So I think once we have full technology upgrades within about south wind and
the tea will be able to fully realize on the efficiency of the routes to include how many students are riding with the tap on and off of the buses.
So I would say the least a semester 6 months after that, we would he have some good knowledge be able to adjust from there.
>> Okay. So. Like by spring of the following school year. All I think that's good
information. As I've talked to my constituents, I think there Arbor is in terms movement school start times and start times generally that align
with best practices for for student health. I think there are a lot of questions still out received e-mail from SEPTA just today with some questions
about how this might impact the right times for special education students. Miss Anderson is raising good questions. You know, looking
at the options before us. I probably be torn between C and C 2. I don't want to push makes my constituents certainly don't want to push
elementary start to nearly 10:00AM. you know, it's not as easy as You know, we we simply don't the funding to do
change. That would have little impact you know, in any kind of negative way on on all students. So I'm eager to hear the rest of the conversation
from my colleagues and to to continue to gather more information and get some more answers here.
>> Thank you, Mr. Dr Anderson. >> Thank you. I'm kind of glad to hear the conversation regarding whether or not this needs to happen because I think the science is a futile.
This is what's best for kids. And I'd like for us to send her that every conversation that we have. I've said this before on other topics. And I know sometimes what is best
for kids is definitely inconvenient. But sometimes that's what we have to do. And I want to add my court, my voice to the chorus of getting
some more data because there's a lot of information that's shared that I'd like some more information about particularly. Do we have any
numbers to lead us to be thinking about how many of our high schools, high school students who work or watch their younger siblings. Have we been able to gather any of
that information in any of the forum's surveys? >> So 2 per questions. So two-part answer the youth
County, Fairfax County Youth Survey, which is done almost every year-and outside of Prismatic. So this is their data and their most recent data points for the fall of
2022. indicated that 31% of your grade 12 students had some sort of outside employment went to work 20 hours or more person. Cool Day. That's on Page 4 Dash 26
of our report. The interesting piece about that is that the difference in percentage of students who worked outside of cool during the school day? If
you look at the change from 2014 to the 2015 16 and we have the disruption there with school start time changes for high school students. The percentages didn't change the
same percentage of students were going to some sort of outside work one hour plus per school day. And then the question about the students
providing supervision, 2 siblings. We did ask that question. We asked in the parents survey and in the student survey, the student's
survey, we asked it of middle schoolers to do. so you may not about for me to this. How are you currently responsible for taking care of your
younger siblings after school on weekdays, at least once per week? At the middle school, 23% said yes. at the secondary
school, 22% said yes. We asked the same similar question parents. Do you rely on your
middle schooler? To take? You rely on your middle school student to take care of younger siblings after school, at least once a week. They're largely middle school parents
who may also be parents of other students because of what I said earlier about the distribution of surveys they did. We did have representation of parents at elementary middle school and high school, but they probably came into the survey as middle
school parents. And so 15% of them said yes. So my conclusion was at least some middle schoolers think they're responsible for more than they actually are. The 15%. Thank
you. >> My community has parts of Fairfax County that's been very vocal on this. And I'm particularly proud of that because I think when I first got this board, it was that we
weren't hearing from the Mason District on the things that were important to them. So for me, that's huge shift. And that may be primarily driven because we have the 3 middle
schools where it's a three-year experience, not a two-year experience. And so the timeline has been especially important to this community. And so one of the questions that I wanted to
raise is the RFP when it was put forward. Was to help with the twin was to support a 24. 25 implementation. What
happened between the RFP, which was very clearly articulated to support that that timeline. And now we could essentially be speaking about? Well, not essentially.
We're speaking about a 26 27 timeline. >> Dr Credit. You know what, what the delay >> Part of that from what we
see the RFP was issued in January of 2023. Which included, you know, being done by September of 2023. And it
was not actually awarded to Prismatic until the end of September and of October 2023. And so when I sat down for a
and a meeting with the then the executive director of transportation, you know, we had a conversation that I'm not sure how we're supposed to finish month before award, but that at that point we adjusted
the timeline to fit. >> Where we were, we did have a conversation March and it was there about, you know, do we need to be done in time for potential? 24 25, because
that's what they are. He said and at that point that was October. That was when we found out that the executive director transportation was
retiring would be retiring at that point was uncertain as to who would be the executive director. I'm sorry. I don't remember if you had started by then or not. >> Started the end of October
so dark. So there was a leadership transition period there. But the the the procurement process. Took from January until. Act to end beginning of October.
Essentially, which made it a little difficult to Impossible to me that. survey, can you speak to that a little bit in terms of the procurement? Not
getting to a guest of endurance hills number 2023. >> You know, our procurement processes are quite and I can certainly get back to you on
what happened in this case, the letting of an RFP, the bidding of the RFP, the cyber and data security agreements that need to be maintained. So I can certainly get back to
you with that. I don't have the details, but I do know that our procurement through an often lengthy process. Thank Can you speak a little bit to how the
>> options could potentially impact Lenox. And if you can also compare this to and I don't know if you're able to do that, but with the high school change that was done in
2015 because I know the concern around that that IX was very present then as well. Thank you, Nancy. With data from the Fairfax County Youth
Survey. pages for 10 for 11. They asked the questions if you participate in extracurricular activities. The exhibit 4 sixes school, extracurricular activities, which would include athletics
as well as other things. Exhibit 4, 7 is extracurricular activities outside of school. >> Both of the mask. If you're participating with them on a school day and in each case, you can see that there was no
decline in participation from the fall of 2014 to the fall of 2015. And then you look at the fall of 2016 just to see if the trend is going to hold really very little difference.
In fact, the let's see the 12th grade participation from fall of 2014 to fall of 2015 went up by 3 percentage points. Probably not statistically significant, but it did go up what we do see in
these data is that, you know, things are different post COVID, but that that the schedule change does not seem to the impacted that we did
talk to various representatives of. Out external organizations as well as athletics as part of this project. And generally
received assurances that they would be able to adjust depending on what options were selected. Some things may be a little trickier than others, but that they would be able to
adjust. >> Thank you. And I also appreciate it. go back a little bit, I really appreciate this report was very thorough. There are a lot of pages to be read and I definitely appreciate the
details. But I'm one of the pages that I can't recall. You talked about our neighboring schools and their start times now, Loudon County, full disclosure. I worked there
their time was elementary first middle and high school. And I can't recall what time to let high schools let out. It's after 4. What did we
have? Any conversations with counterparts? There must be a way in terms of that impact on any student activities or all of the things that all of the variables that we're looking
>> The Loudoun County COO didn't have any. Anything to report negative. He it all worked I think there are high school is looking for the time. Their high school player
says that. Gosh, I want to see for 30 minus. Not right. But no, he didn't. He didn't have anything like a that. It was a failure. We don't like it.
It's it's been positive. >> Okay. I see those 9 seconds left would like go back. Please. I got Thank you. Miss
Lee D fall by missing coming. Mr. McCAbe that this lady, thank So first of I want to thank leadership for bringing this to work session. They
very quickly after last session and also want to thank staff for the ongoing collaboration Doctor Pinto
Chris Matic. It's great to see that you guys have really taken and internalize the work. They came to previously. And trying to find Anoka
solution similar. I think where I stand is similar to what Mister Frisch conveyed is that my preference would be option C over see to slightly
just because it keeps times a little more reasonable. But again, I appreciate the the options there. So building a
little bit of what Dr Anderson said and what I said in a previous session. I do think we need to for the community come to a conclusion as soon
as possible. Ideally tonight with a consensus on moving forward with this because otherwise we just we just continue to spend wheels without the community having
any understanding if are actually committed to support to doing this. So again, like those leading the session. 2 consider taking consensus to the board that they were
committed to making a change. We don't need to know what the changes, but that's what really what set us up for success back in 2015 is that
we we took the strong step of making that commitment and that helped propel us forward to a solution that the community appreciated. Ultimately, I think our job in
our work is to get to yes on this. And it's not tonight and then went so. Just 2, a lot of questions have been raised
colleagues are Well positioned to raise them. But what I would say ultimately is that. When you make a change like this things to just things
adjusted very well in 2015 without really any. Substantive community concerns in the years that followed year your daycare. And Jess, your sports adjust the
committee moves forward with what the board decides. So I will just leave it at that. For now. Thanks. Thank you.
Miss Lady. Thank you. again, thank you. To staff says a lot of work and it's a great report. But I do want to echo some of the things my colleagues have said. This
needs to titled Moving Forward. K 12 Start Times. >> Because it's impacting K 12. I continue to have lot of cognitive distance around the
fact that we did not all levels. And I think that's essential. And it has to be in the 6 most spoken languages. And I think that you see some outreach to help people
complete it because it is not 8. We typically get a a very high percentage of us. 100 1% of our responses are from a must be king members of our community I think we also have to keep in mind some of these
questions been asked, but I'm just going to the staffing implications of this. It's real because people work. Majority of people who work in Fergus County do not live
here. And they have just did to this start times for their children in a different system. It's also one of the reasons why we work so hard to work with other jurisdictions. When we do a calendar every
given year regarding what we're going to for holidays. But I think it's essential. I do have question of 2 community school use. Do we
have it and you regarding access? Like are they guarantee to percent percentage of time? Because if some of the ships happened there, don't lose use. This
later. They're not guaranteed a specific amount of time the way the scheduling happens is. >> We schedule all the school-related and school organization items on their
quarter by quarter. Once we have that locked in, then we give to the county access to the schedule to fill in the open blocks.
>> Are they aware this conversation? looking my. Teammate back their pollen. He's shaking his head. Yes. Oh, yes, they are. Paul, if
you want to, you got to grab the mic right there by. My understanding, is this on? My understanding is Prismatic did interview in Cs.
>> Colleagues about this project that stir. >> And so they were then provided that there might be elementary children not getting out middle schools, not to 4.45 in 2 hours of after school.
>> At the time that we interviewed them, we have not developed options. We asked them open, ended questions about what if it changes by this much. What if it changes by 2 hours? You know how to? we asked a lot of open ended questions because that was
done in the spring and summer. We did not have options at the time. Specific options. >> I think we're going to have to do that. It packs a lot of people. parents spent a lot of money for their kids to plan teams and they access to
fields and gyms. I have a question for Mr. Horne, I'm sitting looking at Stone Bridge High School's bell schedule and they dismiss it for a team. I think that's an average thing for high schools
in Loudoun County. And it's it was my understanding the time that several of them started running practice is before school. Is that the case? And if your counterparts in Loudoun County was this smooth
sailing for them to shift to such a release time for high schools in terms of athletics. Thank you for that question. I
think as Mister Mueller alluded to or Mr, McMahon. >> The Athletics will flow to the Times are available. So Lyon County did see some experience with individual
schools or teams based on coaches, availability, Jim availability wanting to access schools for practice before school. It has not been a massive thing with some like
all freshman basketball teams have moved to the morning, but it becomes an option for flexibility. In addition, the
for 18 start time for them much like doesn't necessarily impact their commuting, but they do have some other smaller schools which to compete outside of the Loudoun County area, which do require
some early dismissals from school in order reach again. Freshman basketball. Jorge 80 by sometimes, you know, 5.30,
starts. Those kinds of things the time for us after 04:00PM. You know, and we have shared in other forums that most of our high school programs can't
access buses until 4.45. Or 5 o'clock. Now because high schools are not the last to dismiss. If a schedule was created with high schools where the last school to
dismiss that time probably wouldn't need to shift. We would still have buses for kids and for or 5 o'clock. Thank And I should have that
the outset I 100% want kids to get more sleep. You're talking to someone who is not a morning person at all. it was awful for me all those years until we shifted for me to get
to work on So I appreciated the swap with middle schools. And again, I think it was more seamless because it was simply a swap. I mean, so there is repercussion. We're back at
the table because it's not the appropriate time for middle schools to start. So I don't want to say that that went smooth sailing and we haven't heard any repercussions. We're sitting here because of the fact it's not sailing so
again, I have consternation over unanswered questions. Data. We don't have. Properly advertising this so that the in you because again, once this when I was a work
session, my a male fled it with people against doing anything. And I had heard that at all. I'd only heard unique participation at the actual board meeting. So I didn't expect that
>> go back. >> Thank you. Miss Lady Misty John coming fall and the sticks it. going to be doing some follow-up, too, because at ever for session, I did ask
about. The survey and who answered with the percentages was what the language is where? And you know that this on page. 22, he said other
than middle school students and middle school staff, the number of fall of the fall of 2024. Survey responses from students, parents and staff were less than desired and may not be representative of the
total population. You went on to say while unfortunate Prismatic does not believe these factors substantially weaken the analysis presented herein. So my question to you
is what is the confidence interval that leads you to believe that the analysis is statistically significant? But this kind of surveying work confidence intervals would not be advisable because I have no
control over who chooses to respond and who does not choose to respond. We did not do a targeted sampling process like he would do in order to be able to provide statistical significance assurances. I
think that in terms of ensuring that we got a broadly representative viewpoints, we have definitely covered that. If you look at the survey results, there are people who >> adamantly against making
any change. There are people who want any change at all. And there are people who are very specific in terms of what they want. It was reassuring to get a decent number of
parents who, again had middle school students, but then also had elementary or high school students and were able to respond to those questions that were intended for all elementary and high school parents. We did get great
results from the middle school students themselves and to to be fair, we were not seeking to survey elementary students. The intent was middle school and high school only. I didn't want anyone to think that we
were attempting serve a elementary students. We don't feel that that's generally appropriate. And so, you know, the the one place where it would have been nice to really get more input would have been
from. Middle school staff other than middle school staff because recognizing that with the exception of Option D which we did provide to you as
a way to make no change except middle school. The other options require change at all levels. That is something that could be addressed if they did, if we decide to do another round of surveying
work, the insurance are ready to go. And and and then we can add those data points in. So could you tell me what parts of the population are missing
from the analysis? >> So elementary staff, high school staff are not included in this because we did not get survey responses from them. And then parents of only
elementary school students would be an interesting group to hear from. It would be nice to hear from those who chose to answer in a language other than English. I don't know
that we could have done anything more. Then we did providing in multiple languages already, but maybe some intentional additional outreach efforts by the school
get us more responses there. That would be good to hear. So I do agree with my colleagues say that this should be a K through 12. >> Operation not just middle
school because it does impact everyone. Within that range. I'm speaking elementary school from an elementary school perspective and having some of
those late start times and knowing what it is for staff when school goes, that was late and waiting for the late bus and having staff members 5 or 6, I've been one of those.
So I know what it looks like down on the ground. I think that we need to survey we because it's going to impact everyone. Completely on board
about changing the middle school. Start time completely on board about the importance of sleep for everyone, including as one of my colleagues sent us adults. so
I'm completely on board with that. I think we don't have enough voices heard. I think that we can get more of this information as a family liaison. I know how we can get
the these as a previous family liaison. I know how we can get the surveys out too. Our underrepresented population and get those results back. And I think that those voices
are often voices that are not at the table. I think that those are the voices that rely on some of their students to take care of their children and also have child care
difficulties. Our responsibility is to. Not only ensure that our kids are getting rest and are coming to school ready to learn, but
also pretty to be responsive to our constituents. And so therein lies the problem and how we operation allies this. And I think that is the hardest thing. And that is what we are all struggling
with is we wanted to happen. But we want to be responsive. The best impact. If this is
going to sound strange. But that best impact with the least negative impact on certain populations. So I really want to just emphasize that that's where I stand
completely support. This effort is just how we operationalize it. They do want to note that on Page 67, there was a statement saying that there is no Sunday use of
school facilities and that's that's not true. So I'd like to have that corrected. You need to go back Saint John
Mystic's. If all of them are men. Thank you for the presentation. I wanted to act to be speak as a parent here as well. Today. >> One my son was one of the
student who was in the first. I guess right to be changed to 7.30, middle school start time. And he was in the AP program. So you get to go to
further down by the school for because of that. It take 40 minutes in the bus almost to get to the school. he was going to the bus, stop 6 in
the morning. 66 15 and dark. It was quite far from where, you know, from the from the House and he would walk alone across the traffic and so forth. So I'm totally
empathizing that every parent who was in the situation and I just could not understand why it would be in the situation that would be letting 12 year-old and 13 year-old going
sorting the morning and that 2 of in dark. So. I want to be decisive. I know. And sometimes you have to take some decisions and I would do
to support any I And Ation bridge my my colleagues everybody. deputy with which actually take some action. It
is, you know, we can talk about that. All the shoes and the Oregon, everything you Yeah, that are there going to be problems but at some point we have to do did right thing and the right now I'm by the middle school students. I feel
for them because they are the I think that forgetting about them. So I think on asked my colleagues to also think about
these 30 EUR. 2 are really struggling at that and their school the start time I prefer personally option B, but I
wanted to Prismatic team maybe Andy, that how much of Costa to in Cardiff, change only the middle school start time to 8.30, 08:00PM and not change
any other. I know it's going to cost. just wanted to know what the number would be. So option D only moves the middle schools. >> And we selected 8 an option
that wasn't, you know, or 10:00AM for middle schools. If you went to something later than what we have as 09:00AM for middle schools that
estimated 75 to 150 buses would obviously go down. so but we didn't want to, you to load the question. But option D looked at just moving middle
schools and what that would cost moving them to county says 09:00AM is a disease. by 8.30, was not considered. >> was more expensive. we were trying to fix something that seemed like a reasonable
possibility. And obviously, I mean, I think looking at the options, okay, option D if we moved to 9.30 for middle schools, it's going to go down below the 75. A special for sure. 30 gets very expensive.
You already have about half of your but Pierre Elementary schools at 8.30. And then you don't have enough time between in 10 for your high school in
your secondary to really have many buses available to then serve middle school. >> that case, I prefer option just because it has no cost on it. But I definitely one some
changes and sort like another year off. Having no change to this middle students. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Moon fall
by Mister Dunn. >> hoping that would some decisions tonight. What I maybe. With said, let me start
with question. First. >> P. What you should pack in November 2022.
>> What do scoreboard? state board? >> To have them be time start. After 8 o'clock. Was the stated goal. What was that
aspiration ago? was that? >> The RFP itself indicated that those scope of work was to develop school start times for middle school at or after 08:00AM.
>> Understand about that on a PDA. But am looking at to report on. Pays you. 21. number 2020 20 says Fcps
release undefeated questing a concert in phone to develop an action plan to help scoreboard. Look county public schools it's go all the
starting middle school times on what have make him some I'm asking because I wasn't sort the board at the time with Adele is already stated goal of the Boulder to some of the
board members were serving and that I'm probably remember that. Somebody ensure that
there was a state Igor. >> I'd be happy to answer from recognized at least share sometimes. If you want to see some you time to Dr, Anderson.
That's why. Good time >> I'll be very quick. The last board looked at this issue in 2020 2021, we ended up having to pause because
we're in the middle of COVID. But the intention it was a goal that we take care of the middle school times because it was the second part from what your boy did with the high
school times. >> Okay. So that's already a state equal in which we do not have repeat because that's been a state economy. That's this board was to worst at
goal. not I'm not in any way in favor reversing goal commissioner back was asking for pose consensus. Again, to
restate that goal or whether that isn't necessarily you for that isn't necessarily more than happy support that. But if that isn't what he stated goal of the scoreboard, that's a steady going just when and
how that's going to happen. Maybe so with that in mind, I want ask if the board. What should what he implement this
starting from. 25 26 school ends up with 26 27. What's 80's to time? We have to make a definite decisions. Mr. Muir
said asking if we were to if we wanted to implemented this coming fall. >> When you have to make a final decision spy for your department to be able
implement. >> Can I answer that? I am just trying to see where fish can answer that question from 2 perspectives. However, put
spent how many prospectus you please yes no from a transportation perspective. >> Making that change, they would be able to do it and
they could do it with the decision that doesn't leave anybody else. A lot of time. The second perspective is everything that we've heard here tonight in terms of that change management, the community. You know, maybe
getting more input that we we didn't get this first go-round in some areas that, you know, surveys after school things like that. I think we need and want that time till 26 27 to
be able to get all that information and really implement it right and are in plum are rounding system coming on everything. If you just look at us in a vacuum, I don't think that would do the
whole greater system. The justice I understand I understand have a 21 seconds left. So I'm going to be quiet. >> It sounded as if and this
time you want to have a little time then system to implement something starting from the next school Is that Freylar?
Okay? I want go back. Got you down, Mr. Moon, Mr. Dunn Fall that Mr. McDaniel. >> Can you please explain what you meant when you were talking about you're concerned
about runtime reductions, which is the 3rd the row on your options. Summary there.
>> So if you see the current. Column, there were run times 110 minutes. So the morning run of a bus that has it's run
is going to be picking up middle school, doing a high schooler secondary run elementary school run from start to finish for the system. Paul's group, it's 110
minutes. So when you look at some of those other options on there that shave it down to 198 E that's prismatic confidence in our routing team
and in what they expect will gain with the routing system that we're implementing our
team is as confident as we are in ourselves. That just seems like a big big 30 minutes. We've seen some other districts too. So much smaller
things and not have any success with Tyler outing or other other systems. And just a little bit. I guess we're just being more conservative than Prismatic.
>> So shorter run it costs more to run. The school bus is like if you're on the bus more, it's more efficient and a shorter and times also mean
harder to have enough employees. What it comes down to have enough drivers and buses to cover that. >> If you throw out what if
you throw on to that, what's happening now with more federal workers going back to work in the traffic patterns are going to be different. Probably more dense, more
crowded it We're just not sure. And on going after that. >> So just just for a lay person is not the transportation field shorter bus runs. Means greater risk
because you don't know if the bus will get to the school on time and get to pick up kids and they're expecting to be picked up. Is that right? Yes, sir. Can you explain on slide
4 for option to use as for C 2, it says changes concentrate at the middle school level. And I see that, you know, the most schools moved by pretty much 2 hours. They still have
elementary school and high schools moving by about half an hour or So what that mean? Changes concentrate at the middle school level.
>> That's kind of what we felt when we're looking at that option that it was that the main focus in there and change was middle school. But you're right. probably as Miss
Anderson pointed out, no nothing that is just middle school. There's going to be impacts everywhere. >> Can you elaborate more? There's a recommendation for a pilot. Can you talk a little bit more about that? Because I
been any discussion of that. And where could that pilot conceivably happen to be discussions about specific high school parents? >> We have not had any discussions about any specific
high school pyramid yet we. thought that that might be an option to gain some information on whatever option we decided to go the change. If we could put that into
probably one or 2. Pyramids, because there is certain crossover in terms of transportation used by Jason it so we hadn't looked at
which ones made the most sense yet just we had it on there as a potential to maybe gain some until moving forward. >> When my colleagues mentioned, you know, conversations with potential user of community use, has
there been change any discussion of the county about potential impacts on the fact program? No, sir, not yet. Okay. I think that definitely
needs to happen. So looking at the data like just doing the it shows on Page 2 Dash 9 75% of middle school students who
are surveyed said they want to start between 08:00AM and 08:30AM. Was that considered at on developing these options? >> Yes, for the primary uses of the survey data and we use
that as input, you know, recognizing that we did provide options and included that twice. So the 08:00AM option in 45 an comes close to
what they were looking for. I think that the open ended responses of the survey data indicated some similar fears that adults also reflected that, you while I would
really, really like to start school at 9. I'm worried about how that changes everything else in my life. And so we we took that into consideration as well. And I also see on
Page 2 Dash 14 that 60% of middle school parents who are surveyed. agree. We need to survey. >> High school an elementary but 60% of parents, school start times between 7, 38, 30
am. And so it just seems like some of these options are looking at. There are 09:00AM or well after 09:00AM 10:00AM. >> R Well went outside the ballpark for what students and
parents said. So was that was that considered in developing these options? >> Yes, I think that what we have to balance is what the public would like to have and what is possible recognizing
that one of the RFP objectives was to be costs, minimal to cost neutral if possible. And then reflecting the greater body of research. One of the things that was pretty
abundantly clear in, but at least a section of the people that we talked to in the forms was that there was not a clear understanding of the, you know, the recommendation to start after 30 or the
potential negative out outcomes for their students. And so we did provide some options with that. I think that the bigger learning point in the preferred school start times questions that we looked
at was that there is a substantial tendency to want the status quo. And so that was something that we recognize that is is going to be need to be addressed in
moving start times. But the middle school students and middle school parents of middle school students. You look at exhibit 2 DASH 3. 26% of them did to status quo and
Something that was later that was in contrast to some of the other ones where we actually had 24% of elementary students want to something earlier and they currently have. And so
there is a body there. There's a population that definitely is status quo. And there is population that is interested in making a change.
>> And at and and align with status quo, we have the the principles of elementary, middle and high schools, you jointly recommending that we maintain current start times
expressing severe concerns that we're going have a huge exodus of staff and that staff themselves are fearful, upset that that really concerns me
and may not have been in the RFP. So may have been flutter of P. But was there any consultation with child care providers or any analysis of childcare. Availability
options. If we do change, especially for both staff and for parents slash caregivers. >> So one of the things that it was required by the RFP was looking at case studies and we
did do case study work with a number of other school system that had implemented later school start times essentially looking for what one of the rocks in the road. If you do make a change and Iran is a
great example. because it's right next door and almost similar in size, they address the childcare issue head-on as part of their change
management process. They will tell you that one of the things they thought was a star in what they did was held childcare fairs to help
connect parents with options. They were very communicative with the providers out there. They have a whole communications package that their communications director has shared with other Maryland
school districts for when they make a start time change and they reported no problems. And so I I recognize that in this was part of the December that childcare is a burning
pressing concern in the school system in this county. And it was you. was not brought up as a part of our work that. If we don't think there's enough childcare slots, we shouldn't
recommend something that was not part of the process. >> And finally, just say we're at a time of big changes for a lot of our residents who are federal employees. It's very
dangerous to implement this disruptive of a change at the time. And we don't know what the scenario will look like year from now for many of our residents.
>> Well, timed, Mr. Dunn, Mr. McDaniel. Thank share some of the concerns about the survey methodology in the sample sizes and the lack of the transom. The translation.
>> I don't beat up on that too much, but we got a letter today from SEPTA. I think we all got that letter and they're concerned that they raise that. I want to make sure got discussed or least
addressed here is about the from their point of view, the lack of data regarding special education students and how that how the bus routing surround special education
services could be impacted by any of the myriad of options on the table. So its staff to address that. I would appreciate it. >> Yes, they're all start. I
may need to Paul to jump in there a little bit. for the special education support and runs. They have their set of
buses and systems, right to have 320 by says 350 runs in the morning in the afternoon. It's a midday stuff. A midday
runs as well. And seems it's similar to the lunch period and the blocks that we would be able to slide that left or right as well to keep that
consistent. jump in there from getting that right. >> You know, I just want to tip of the just special education bus route is
typically around the 40 minute time frame for a bus ride for a suspect, student, of course, you when you have a very specialized programs that you have to transport one and the
county to another and to the county, you have those isolated incidents when you start to creep up closer to an hour. So I think regardless of one of the times are that you
have in any of these options, you're still going to have those Inc instances where that happens. Because a lot of it is surrounded by the Woodville ability of programs which is
outside of the school. >> I appreciate the response I'm hearing information that conflicts with the response. And I think it's really underscores the need to bring the special education community further into this
conversation as we continue to go down this route. I doubt we're going to have an answer tonight, but they need have a seat at the table further as
we continue to do this the question at hand, at least from my point of view, was whether or not we can change middle school start times to later. In a reasonable way
that somewhat costs new troll or unreasonable cost. One of the challenges without lying 6 options, I guess technically 7 options were going to struggle
to get consensus around anything that this board much less in the community because you have so many options on the table. The only one of the options that actually does what you know, the outset
bars, which is to move start times for only middle school I think is option D Wright. Is that fair? So if it was just
option D versus status quo, then I can say, alright, well, do I want to spend 6.5 to 17 million dollars or do I not? The answer to that right now is no, not in this budget
environment. But Dr Readable asked this question as we have discussed one of the goals of the boundary work that we're doing is to reduce
transportation costs. >> Do we see the possibility that in reducing transportation costs? >> Option D at 6.4 6.4 to 17
for 3. That's a pretty big Delta can is it? Can someone kind of dig into that costing number a little bit more? Sure. So the 6.4 million is
equated to the 75 buses with methodology for causing out that was provided back in December. >> In that packet, if you were to ask, you know, which side
do we think it will land on it regardless attendance boundary adjustments, it'll probably be closer to the 75 than 150 for
context. 6.4 million dollars in a 206.9 million dollar transportation budget is not A's a You have more that I favor the numbers. percentage
increase. And one of the things that we did do as part of our initial work when we sat with board members was to ask us to define what would be a substantial considered a substantial or not a minimal
fiscal impact. The one number that we did get was around 10 million would start to be a problem. But we wanted to point out the DEA could could cross that barrier. The thing that is not considered in
there is what refinements might take place with routing software itself. One of the things that is coming out with the tablets will give you the ability to actually know how
many students are riding the bus each day with the idea that you would then be able to dynamically route if you only have 10 kids at a 75 assigned riding a bus regularly. That
route should be adjusted. We were able to provide load factor data based on spring of 2024. Rides. What drivers reported and that those data
indicate that there is room to make adjustments like that, which is why I say 75 more likely than one. 50. And did I hear you correctly earlier
saying that under option D if you bumped a middle school from 9 to 9.30, the cost drop off. >> Potentially. Yes. Okay. My recommendation would be to go
back. Take option D look at 7, 38, 8, 39, 9.30, everything else stays the same and give the costing numbers right there. That's something that can be done because that. Does, in fact answer the
question. Well, middle school start time changes without impacting anything else. >> The 7.30 goes against the RFP. >> Quite on the status So
status quo. So current. Okay. Yeah. >> Does your baseline and then add the so 7.30, the Baseline 8, 8, 39 9.30, in and see which of those makes most
sense and potentially, you know, my time's up. But if the boundary savings could possibly fund that. >> Thank you. I will take a turn that we're going to go
backs. I brought this concern up the previous Bring it back up again. But every single option except for the and C 2 a little bit less. But every
single off reduces the run time every option except for C 2 reduces the run time but 20 to 30 minutes. That is a significant change in run
time. How confident are you asked you, Dr Reid. But you can deliver this from time. And before you answer, I asked this question because the last thing I want to do to a community that is undergoing a
lot of change and angst is to promise something we can actually deliver. So how confident are you in any of these options that have a run time this 20 or 30 minutes
faster? >> So I think Mr. Munich spoke to this earlier. I think there's a concern on the part of our transportation department that we're really going to be able to do that.
And we have not been able to model it. So when you ask how confident I am until we're actually able to model and on the road in traffic, I can't say that. I am confident. I
also know the tablets being available. I believe the tablets last time I checked are not going to be available. When school starts. So help me us. We've been able to
negotiate and earlier delivery. I thought those were we were looking at December. >> Yes, ma'am. The routing system will be up and running by the beginning of this
coming school year, which is August. Yes, ma'am. And that were in the procurement process on an amendment right now for the mobile data tablets, which the board has not seen yet and approved,
which is coming through the process. Now. And if it then we will be doing 45 day. Pilot this summer during summer school to make sure that the
mobile data tablets work as advertised as seamlessly as a said. And if they do, which we. feel pretty good that they will deliver. Then during the school year of 25, 26 will
start rolling those out. Hopefully by it'll all be fully implemented by spring break. Maybe sooner like December spring break of 26.
Yes, ma'am. Okay. So I just want to manage expectations. >> The those tablets are not going to be ready. Likely till second semester next year so
if you're asking that confidence, I would not bet my first more on this. Maybe my 3rd, but I hope they're not much.
>> to no, I didn't say that want to say that. I think until we can model it. >> I don't know. don't have complete confidence I mean, I
think. >> What I'm hearing from my colleagues miles and believes we all want to dress middle school start times as Dr. Anderson said the previous board started looking at that and then COVID delayed many
things. This is one of them. I think we all want to address this. But I also don't believe any my colleagues want to promise something that we don't know if we can deliver. And if we have new modeling
new software that can give us much more detailed information on bus runs. That might actually be able to save us more time in frankly, if we included the special Ed buses on there because with all due
respect, having had a special ed kid Whos what was sent to school outside the parent that wasn't that far away. It was a 15 minute bus ride with all due respect. There's a lot of very lengthy bus ride, especially kids been twice as
much time as Janet kids on the bus and to not include them in the report is a real disservice. And I'm just gonna put that the bluntly. And so I do think that we need to make
sure inclusive of our groups are looking at sort of bus rides if we have software that is going to get is more detailed information us Ashley has traffic patterns may be
changing. I think it's a disservice to do this without that data without really knowing the the assumptions almost all of these even see too.
>> It's shorter. Bus runs without those assumptions being true. None of these can be done and it sounds like we don't have competent and whether those assumptions underlying every single option
is true and able to be done. I mean, you can't do this. The whole thing falls apart. So I want to change middle school start times when my daughter was middle school, she was
actually at a secondary school. So the middle school started at the high school start times, which was the earlier start times. So I've also as a parent lived. >> The 07:20AM start time. I
understand it is apparent. But I also know as a parent really mad if I was told a bus pick up my kid at a certain time to get certain time and we can Sisley couldn't do it because we didn't have this offering
information. I don't want to do that or community. So I do think that we can make a commitment to change middle school start times, but don't think they can come in to do it next year because it doesn't sound like we have the confidence that we can
actually do it. And that's the last thing I want to promise or community. I just I appreciate all the hard work. The only one that I could doing is E because that's the
same amount of run time. And there's a lot of issues with how late those elementary school kids get out and without asking elementary high school kids. I'm not comfortable doing so that I pause and take a go back. But
if you want to comment said happy to hear it. Dre. >> I think you're correct in your we if our current run
time as one 10, I would be confident we can maintain that. My hope would be that we can continue to improve that. And I think Mister McDaniel said with boundaries, you
know, one goal was more efficiency for sure, but we won't be initiating the boundaries this fall. I don't know if the new routing. I
haven't seen it modeled If the new routing will enable a 20 to 30 minute gain, I just I don't know. mean, I have to look at the documents, but if the team isn't sure the night
for sure, I'm not sure because they're going to have to execute it. So eat does provide you the security. I think we could stand behind the runtime for E t because
it's at one 10 and C 2, maybe within 10 minutes Ish. I don't know if we can go much further than that of July, Mr. Music, Mr. And Ready for that. >> Thank you. We'll start with
go back South Miss Anderson than as Mayor. >> So one thing that I wanted to say is that I agree my colleague that talked about the fact that I'm not trying
to discount the importance of middle school in terms but I am not willing elementary school for most of our schools is the longest amount of time
that anyone is in one school. So for us to and I live in an area of the district of the county that many of our elementary schools, school
students are on the bus for extended periods of time because of their location. So trying to say that we're going to have kindergartners starting at 6.30, getting on the bus at 06:30AM, in the
morning or 6.40, in the morning and then having that continue until they're in 6th grade does not seem feasible. So I am significantly
concerned that we would have that be the solution. I will also tell you anecdotally the only option that I've heard, the biggest outcry about is E as an absolutely not. So I
think that we will have pitchforks if we picked that particular option because it's untenable for some parents, 2 to have their kids dropped off at 9.50, in the morning. So I
will also I will say that I was this. I was the the 6 years in a secondary school that started at 7.20. So I I lived that what I've noticed
that we've done with our secondary schools is we've given them their own unique start time. What I would recommend is if we have strong support from the Mason District at this point because
of the fact that they have the only middle schools that have 6 through 8. Is there any reason that we can't start with them and give them their own unique start times because
of the fact that they're their own unique student body. >> I can answer the first piece, the none of the options that we developed had more than a handful of civil
twilight violations for the first run schools. So 06:30AM, pickups for elementary school has a de facto. result. And it
is not what is included in the solution in sight, but we're still talking about 5 year-olds. >> Walking to the bus, stop by Sunder said. And so the the the RFP requirements were not
no, except no civil twilight violations. We did look at what you currently have already have some civil twilight violations happening with middle school students. I didn't want anyone to get the impression that we have.
Excessively or leap hiccups with some of the first tier start times for the elementary schools and one of the things that the place into that is that your current.
>> Runs are optimized. For your current set of school start times if you adopt a new set of school start times the runs would be optimized. For that new set, which would
which would change potentially a 40 minute running for an elementary school might have to be broken up into 2 20's in order not to have civil twilight. I lay shuns and still get the kids to school
on time. That also plays into the run time window. I will say that in in just to be clear, we vetted these with the Transportation Department as being possible aggressive.
Yes, some of them. What does it mean that we think it is possible that an 80 minute window can happen? It means that there is existing space within the 110 minute window
to further refine things and that that that's where that comes from. And so that that's that that piece he is should be considered in this. not
provide solutions that the Transportation Department said. Absolutely not. It's not possible. And to the second aspect of my question and your front of it, remind me I'm
sorry. The pilot. I think it up to them. Maybe not call the pilot may be called a phase one. >> I not asking him for it to be a pilot. I'm asking for these 3 schools to be treated
differently. The same way the secondary schools are. I think that. >> There there is. >> there are some reasons to want it within a school
district to have some commonality for start times. However, in a district this large, there's no reason not to start someplace with this kind of a change. I think that
the benefit to doing something like that would is that it would give you plenty of opportunities, understand what the challenges are going to be. You would have real world data potentially on how many teachers say not going to do that. New school start time
and asked to be transferred somewhere else within the system. You would have real world data on what your new traffic patterns might look at. Look like I little downside to it. We did take a
look not officially, but we were we were wondering what it might look like and looked at several different high school parents to see how much overlap there is bus usage
between Pearman a pyramid be interim and see. And there are places where there's not a huge amount of overlap, obviously overlap. If you change start times here from start times here might end up
costing you extra buses because they can't now serve both efficiently. And so the fact that there wasn't a huge amount of overlap said, yeah, this is actually possible. And the school system. >> The other thing that I
would just want to put out here is that I understand fully why we need high schools to start of the same time. There's absolutely nothing that says that we can't have middle school started different times because they
do not have the same program requirements with sports and things like that. At the end of the day. >> Thank you. Another gimmick
this man. You really good points. And I love to see if we can be flexible for our youngest students who are middle school. So just what your few things, one about community engagement. You
know, we have issues that the board works on because data compels us to issues that we come to our plates because community advocacy doesn't. Sometimes it's a convergence of both. And I just would like us to be clear and community
engagement because sometimes we hear criticism that you do with engagements, all just, you know, lip service. But I'm just reflecting on a few topics I've worked on in my,
you know, 60 or on the board. COVID. 50% want to close to 50% wanted open. take all the community what I wanted. It was not going to be any different. The calendar. Finally that became something
that was operational AISD, which this is an operational thing. And so I'm wondering who ultimately is deciding on anything? Is it us or the board? Because the pattern would be that the superintendent says tenant,
but the superintendent would be deciding recess, middle school recess that came to us from the community. But we wholeheartedly support it. But it took some time to get it done and we still need to make it better by providing, you
know, the equipment for them. Cell phones were there, too. And that's come out. It's all different ways. So, you know, surveys, I agree. And this has been from the property. Look
at not everyone responds to want to get peace. >> false hope. But again, like I want to look at the data and the data say that is best for kids to have more sleep. So look, if this board is committed to making middle
school start times later, then we proceed operational icing. What the system can bear, what time and funds we have. The RFP was designed with available resources that could
be dispersed to this change. So it we need to have some conversations again with the county. One community use. We need to be on the same page about planning 2 school-age
childcare. is from the 1980's. We must update that and maybe this is that can can whatever, you know, kind of catalyst things for to make that happen. It's our
responsibility to figure it was childcare, but we certainly can help. So I think we need to just if I could finish what we need to decide what I'm proposing is we make a commitment to that change as
Mr. McElveen ask for pending that outcome. We make a commitment to either the parallel or the staggered proposal and then pending that outcome, we decide what the next steps are, including who makes a decision. Is that the
board or the superintendent? And then let people know we can't leave him hanging. I hope that we can do that by tonight. Thank you. Miss Marin, Dr Anderson. Start by
answering some of those questions that you raise. Yes, I want to do this and I'd like for us to have that vote that we are going to do this too. I am fine with what you propose must, Anderson, to start with
the Mason District to know what stock ever. >> So I am fine with doing that because I also think it's probably one of the densest
areas and I'm just guessing by driving around, not because I have any, you know, expertise of that. And that would make it staggered. And that would give us the opportunity to
learn. And this is I mean, we've piloted with other things. The security they were piloted with 6 schools. This will be 3 schools. So I am all and for that one of my
concerns about the Palo Boundary and limitation is what if we don't do the boundary? What if we are delayed with the boundary adjustments with the boundary
changes then does this make this a continue it a continuous delay as well because potentially that could happen if we're being responsive our community. We have a lot of noise in out
years regarding the boundary, but we're forging ahead saying this is what's best for the division. This is what's best for efficiencies, cetera. All of the reasons. This is also what's best for kids. So we
need to carve that out. But I do want to answer that question. Yes, ma'am.
>> If something delayed, the Boundary adjustment review, I think it would be a decision for the board. superintendent obviously to say, hey, we can continue forward with the middle school with the K
through 12 start time changes. 26 27 and not delay them further. >> And I appreciate that. But given all the conversation we're having right now in
terms of why they need to be. Coupled what would make that any different a year out, which is again, continuing delaying what you your child experienced, what my child is
experiencing and I have also share this. I think I said this before. We also wanting to increase ridership. We have students at the middle school level who are not on the school bus because it is too
early for them. They get a whole extra 30 minutes if we drive them. My kid isn't one of those places because of that additional 30 minutes we can save not to mention all of
the safety issues. One of the other questions that I had regarding the elementary. How is it decided which ones at 8.20 and which ones are
whatever the of the time is 8, 39, 20. The current. Because I imagine same application. I
can answer for the scenarios we develop. That's where it fits. We tried to keep them where they currently we're as we started. >> But where it fits and that that could be a potential
improvement on the scenarios. Is it all of it is off the table in terms of where it fits in terms of the routing time. And so how many runs we need to accommodate for elementary school, a versus B versus E and what we needed to
do there. Was that the original intent. same intent is. >> The mountain elementary schools of causes more than middle schools and high schools. So he wouldn't be
able to deliver to all middle schools at the same time. So we have additional tears to comedy. Thank you, Doctor Anderson, do want go back.
Yes, please. Misleading. >> Thank you. Again, I want to start with just reiterating that I have complete understanding of the biological needs of our kids
to get more sleep but couple things that haven't they been stated but indirectly for the staffing implications. We have backed up the time with which are paid arsonist. Current staff can enter transfer
window. I think the did the deadline for them to transfer is April second or 12 when historically they could do it through the end of June. We have already backed that up for us to make any decisions
right now it's going to impact that plan. I think you missed except for highlighting how long the bus right is for an AP student again, overlaying with about your work. I think
we should have AP and all of our schools and no longer have centers because that will address our bus problem in a major, major way because that bus to be full. It's going to
take longer to get to every single location, which is the same issue with special education, which I would also uplift that focused on inclusion and we need community schools. We need to forget the service or students
needs in their base school because that fleet of 320 buses, the public could be impacted as well. And I do believe our staff have the talents that we can start to look at this report rampant
perspective because it's going to save us and funding. I think the thing to go to Dr Anderson's point, I think what I keep hearing is this Tyler routing software is the game
changer and we're not fully implemented with it. And so in terms of us being able to maybe implement changes to start Times K 12 a year from now. Even if the boundary work
isn't ready. I think that is a viable option because we will have data from that Tyler outing and from the, you know, never talk about the tablet. You're talking about it also
seems to me this is a question. If the runtime a shortened, does that impact salaries? The summertime? >> No, I don't believe because
we guarantee drivers 30 hours so we be. Taking away from the drivers.
>> I mean, I get that. But the other thing I want to say is still have 4 days after school for middle schools, if least if they go until 3.45, or 4.
>> You're for into the labor says. I would assume so. Paul. >> I wouldn't assume that that would change. The only thing is this all depends on the
school. What programs he would offer depending on the time and how many parents may say I don't need the progress because schools a little later on. So that's a variable that we wouldn't be able to
address. >> And I'm going to be a time. But then that might be we shift offering some earlier. I don't know. But then that's equitable issue because everyone has to get there. The last thing I would say is that I think people need to
understand this is for faculty listening and parents that one of the benefits when I was at Thomas Jefferson High School was all pair Converse has started AM. There were no after school care conferences because dismissal was a 3.50.
>> And it meant that we 30 minutes and we had to go to class. And I just want to uplift that because this looks later. But if we moved some of those earlier, would be great. Thank you. Miss Levy, Mr.
Moonfall the missing time coming. Thank you it's really intriguing that. You know, we
can. We can start with the 3 minutes. and vision district school with them. But he's ready. We >> our team did it I'd be
happy to support that it happened starting and from the fall. you know, he sounds if that that can be done. I would support that. And secondly, at
the same time, it sounds as if the board members cited question politician, information on the surveyed on additional engagement special education community we support
a shooting with the A mistake the community as well. to win, know, making on ATV's online
system. Why a change from the upcoming most likely not be feasible or from. I mean, that's that's that's my assessment of the conversation today, I'm not going to push
for a 25. 26 systemwide change right away, but But at the same time, even though it's been it's been goal or state ID go to the scoreboard. Last
board. I want to have a consensus of these board to bring a change. In due time. At the same time we left. You
know, it would be a a disappointed people who lay. Wanted to have this change to be done and not far let them know that. Let them know that we unfortunately will be able
to do that rather than getting for school. That's one a second spot as start time for
You can on high and long time to entertain anything going beyond 09:00AM. And that's it. That's a huge change from a
court in 72 I mean, that's even 9 o'clock is an item in That's not change from a lot of families. A lot of staff members show up. Don't do Bottom line for the change.
Thank you, In Saint Johns County for the Mystics and so I want to go back to. But we were talking about earlier about community engagement and
data. And I think that. >> Comparing, you know, engagement with the boundaries for says this is completely different because we have very robust year long opportunities
for community engagement and voices for boundaries. And we had. A survey and we look at the numbers and we look at the
percentage look at the numbers of how many people actually answered that. It's a completely it's it's to it's apples and oranges. I think that that's critical because that's how we bring our
community along with us. I know one member in my community that a very active parent that wanted to fill out
the survey and the window closed and they never got to. The survey because it was a week window. They never got to get it. It's English speaker.
They pull their son out of middle school in Fairfax County and they're now in private school because of the middle school. Start time. They weren't able to have their voice heard. So I think
that the way the surveys were done were not adequate. And I. feel that we need to have that input so that we can bring our community along with this.
That's that's the one thing that I wanted to mention. The other thing I wanted to mention, he's please talk to your principles and talk to your staff members, those letters that were sent by
principles. I had several principles reach out to me and say I did not agree with that letter. I then made phone calls to other principles that said, I did not agree with
that letter. So it incumbent on us to find out. People feel in our community, including our principles, including our staff members. So when I got a couple of calls saying I want
you to know this letter came out, did not agree with that. So please, I urge all of you to make those phone calls because it sounds like these
organizations are all lockstep. They're not. Thank you. Miss D*** said fall by
Mister Dunn. Thank you This is a pretty great conversation I think going put it. >> Through on brainstorming night. No, but I think that
hitting some of that. I like the idea just doing this by did for Mason District right now. And also trying the the software and then kind of
going from there at this moment. But I don't want this to be another situation that wanted to have to schools and Mason and as a pilot and then been do it all across the
county and then this also becomes that. So we have to stay on task. We have to be committed to this. And I as a as a parent, I'd say nothing
else of note what ID me but sending my son and are doing that. But stop every morning and also. >> since to seek is seeing without those CB with this
cooler in the morning. I don't see them bright and European going to school it with a smile. also my hands. I have more easily more sleepy, give
them to sleep on the act actually, especially with the long commute time. So I do want to support for pilot. And I want to say that it would
for high school students. DJ has a great start. Dying relative is admired that they had it in there because of that. >> Distance of commute, I guess. But that's exactly the student's needs specially kids
were doing art of sports bees and IB programs. They have a lot of Holmberg. I know students sometimes stay up 1 o'clock at Do you know and
then have school in the morning at starting at 8? So it's it's a overall pushing the school little bit late is I think it's a good thing. >> So I was a state that
support Vincent District program right now. Thanks. >> Mr. Your analysis is based on current school boundaries.
Is that right? So so sauce, if we change the boundaries, the cost the times the runs will be different right? That that
gives me pause. When we talk about doing a pilot Tully supporting my colleague, but what which of these options are we talking about doing in the Mason District and what
are the costs of that pilot? I'd like to know that. >> before we get too far down the path of change in just 3 middle schools, it would
require us to be able to find more drivers and have more buses applied to that because if you the way you pull the route with the limited number
of drivers and buses, we have a bus is going to go and pick up a middle school and then an elementary school and then to a high schooler secondary, you know, whatever, that whatever that run is. And if you
change, you can't change the times on just one of those in that group, right? Because if you change that middle school time, it impacts. How did that? How does a bus get to,
you know, the the schools following it are before, you know, I mean, they're all in our late. So unless I have a dedicated group of drivers just to go at those 3 middle schools, we need time to look
at it to see if we can do that and how. >> And when you go and look at it where you come back to say which of these options are feasible to do just for the Mason district. >> I think when we were
talking about a pilot, we were looking at the pilot would be in a full attendance pyramid, right? So you would have, you know, South County pyramid and you would have the middle of
the elementary schools, the middle school and high school in that pilot and they would all be linked because those buses are picking up and doing the middle school, the high school and the elementary
school. So you can link them all together. So if just said, hey, change the times for the 3 Mason District Middle schools, I don't I don't know yet. I'd have to go back and
take a look at that and see how that impacts. The current resources we have. And Paul, I don't know if you want to add anything to that. >> No, I think is the same methodology you'd have to
really look at. How the whole permit interact with each other. So we'll be live eyes to me one just for those 3 middle schools without making changes everything else.
>> And and for this pilot, could the school board direct you? Could this toward pick one any of these options that are up on the screen right now and say we want you to do those school times for for the
Mason District or would you have to come back and tell us which options are feasible for those parents? I think it's within the board's period to
direct as they wish. I think that, you know, at the system level. >> Those are the costs that are they're obviously if you're doing a piece of anything other than D. You
there may be additional costs at for for 3 schools, for for 3 attendance zones. That would not be at run rate with all of them because of the attendance boundary issue and buses that
cross attendance, boundaries. I think you We have to look specifically at the 3 middle schools in the Mason District, but option D gives you the
cost for just moving. Middle schools at the system level. We have to look and see, you know, the answer. Then 75 divided by number. 26 middle
schools. 23 plus 3 0nd areas. Or is it a little bit more than that? And then one, 50 divided by the same number. Thank you. And I think just whatever happens next. I think
listening to the voices that have been raised in this report. And it is an excellent report, by the way, very thorough. >> You know, certainly I appreciate my colleagues point about the principles, but when
the union speaks, one of principals association speaks. listen because that's their job to represent. when the students speak in the survey,
75% tell you a time frame. And 60% of parents speak giving a time frame. I think those should be determining factors, but we also need together the data that's been noted by my
colleagues is missing. >> Thank you, Mr. Dunn seeing no other go back have 3 Gogo backs. But I Did you want to turn was I'll take a turn I
understand that the run times were suggested. Thank you. They could be done When I asked about that in the first work session, I was asked if they were driven as opposed to
just in the answer I was given was what we just have a new software. And now what I'm hearing is a new software isn't going to be ready until next year. And so as much as I
understand that in this to do a pilot and I it's creative solution without even knowing the software for the run times. I don't even know how we would do a pilot. And if you just did middle schools that and how that impact the elementary schools, the feed
to different high schools, I think that's interesting thought to look at, but I think it's difficult today to know. That's the first thing that's something I want to mention is that we just had a
budget work session where we talked and I know you made me that that we talked about collaboration with the Board of Supervisors in partnering with the Board of Supervisors and many of these changes are going to impact community use.
It's going impact sack, which to colleagues talked about. We've talked about the disruption to our community and they're going to have to make child care changes the community. I know in the
survey it said 66% of middle schoolers said they did not take care of an elementary school student act, which tells you a 3rd of them do. That's not a small amount of
middle schools that are taking care elementary school student school. And I'm not saying our job is to make sure that they are there to do that. But our job is to minimize disruption with us to 3 middle schools
are a lot of middle schools. I don't think it's good change management. And the goal is to collab with the Board of Supervisors and the club are with the community. I just don't think it's good change management to do this that
quickly. But a 3rd of our middle schools are taking care of someone opera school. We've got to get our families time to figure that out. And with U.S. 3 middle schools or not, I just don't think you make that quick of a change like
this, especially when we haven't driven the runs and especially with traffic changing. So. I really think we have to thoughtful in how we do this because I don't have to undo it. And with potential boundary changes
ensure transportation times, there's a risk of being inefficient with resources down the road or and doing things. So my $0.2 will go to
go go Missus out because just maybe take it second to eliminate a little bit of confusion. We started working with Tyler routing last year
and at the time that we moved into developing alternatives the prismatic working on that. >> Tyler routing provided a what they call a sandbox. So
it was an exact replica of are routing system that Prismatic could use to develop these runs. So while we didn't have it, somebody in a bus out driving the runs, they had the
same system that our team is going to be using and they were able to go in with the exact stuff. We have the exact routes to schools, the stops and to manipulate to get to these alternative. So I just
want to make sure that was clear because thought that's what we mentioned in December. And you just mentioned that it was unclear. So I just want to make sure I maybe get some of that confusion out of there.
And they they were in there, Cao doing the actual runs in there and like run be when shaved. 30 minutes off the runtime Prismatic feels that we can do that goes back to
the you know, the risk willingness of us and some of the situation people said taking that risk in kids sitting out there waiting. We don't need it were we want to
see how. You know that goes. >> If I could just clarify, we did not build entirely new runs. We use the runs that you already have that you're currently running, which is what was put into the new
software. There are very limited cases where we would break apart runs. So we would split a run into 2 pieces in order to meet some civil twilight potential problems or
to make it so that the new way of stacking elementary to middle to high vice versa would fit. But we use what you're currently doing as the
basis. >> Why many times all respond to that might go back. But thank you for the clarification. Sizemore Heizer. Are we doing 2 minutes or one minute for they'll go back. I believe are supposed
to go to 9 is a correct. Was scheduled to 9 for A part of those till 9. I know if I may indulge my colleagues, we only
have for for Gulf. We could do one minute. That will be a quick round gives a staff to maybe keep the responses short. My if that's okay with the old the next 15 minutes. Okay. So one minute woman
women. Also doctor and a miss Anderson public Dr. Anderson. Just really fast. One thing we've said multiple times that we're going to break runs up to be 20 minutes instead of 40
minutes. Sometimes that's not physically pass. >> The kids just live 40 minutes away from the school. So I just want to put that out there. Second thing is with Option E I'm particularly concerned about the high
school dismissal time because of the fact that we have 44 of art, our fields that are actually given over to the Park Authority or the county for community use at 5
o'clock. And we're already hearing from our from our teams that do not have time to get the kids out and get practices through in equitable way for everybody. And so I
just want to say that doing anything that disrupts further taking that half an hour away from that availability is a big deal for some of our teams. So I just I just want to put that out there that I I
think that we have some more discussion about the different options Dr Anderson. Yes, thank you. I'll be quick but
one clarification question. Our high school not. >> Turnover did not utilize for after school because of our own usage. Correct?
>> question again, a high school fields and we don't have a lot of community use using the fields and the gyms because of our heavy usage. >> Of those.
>> All you can you jump in on that answer. >> I can speak to the field specifically. We currently have a Nemo. You on the second turf fields when they exist at
our high schools and you time, which expired. It needs to be refreshed. Currently 5.30, when communities turns over. But each school works with
their community users maybe sometimes go to 6. But there's room based on start time to work with ncs on. When we turn over the second fields. But
because the in the county maintains and replaces the secondary fields. They absolutely expect to have significant use of them as far
as gymnasium used times. Go and Cs takes over. When we are done, there is no ammo you. There's no specific time when the high school and middle school facilities are turned over to them because those
just seem to go on and on and on. Especially the invaluable in basketball seasons. >> Thank I will take the rest of my 49 minutes to say this,
which is. >> knew was that 4 of those precious seconds. I will take the rest of my time to say this. You know, the conversation that I've heard
around this table is to be responsive to our community. I opened up my comments would say the Mason community. >> Has been very, very vocal on this. So I would love to work with my colleagues to
find a way for staff to review how we can make this happen for the 3 middle schools because I think going through the whole high school pyramid, will be disruptive in terms of
sports because you can't have, you justice high school beyond one schedule and then they can't get to activities and 2 games, whatever it is that we need to do with our high schools as well as academies.
I see that being a little bit more challenging and I don't know how it works at the secondary for the secondary schools because I don't have any of those. But I would like to see some modeling of what does it look like for those 3
middle schools? ♪ errant? Yeah, look, I requested that we get clear few things. I don't think
we're Are we committed to making a change? That means know what the solution is yet. But are we committed? >> I hope that we could maybe we can vote up or down or whatever. That would be great. Are we committed to parallel?
Are staggered. We make that decision. Maybe we do need to do that right now. But what are the next steps? Dr Reid at this point? Is this an operational think is we're like so in the weeds and U.S.
resident, only people who are experts in this tough for those people sit in the front table. So. >> What is our role in this now and in the future? Do we need to tell you, you know,
tonight or at a formal board meeting and we have got to engage the county further on this community use and SAFC R Keep. He says this is not a simple thing. And when I think
that this board only got its information in December and we're feeling like we're rushing to do something. I'm sorry. That's not OK. There's lots of questions. We had an
RFP. Then we asked for it to respond to American Academy Pediatrics, recommendations. Now there's a request which could be a next step about the Mason District. So we are evolving. The work. What is
our plan and want to making decisions because people sitting here and they want to know what's going to happen. And so do Thank you, Mr. We do have a next steps. Document
that we can use. I meant good. So I think the history has been that this board. Wants to make this decision. I believe that's what happened the last
time. So I believe it's the board's decision and will implement whatever the board determines.
>> I think it's mean of 7, any, I leave it there because I think back in against Mr. Mr. Moon would have to answer that. The last time start times for just that, I'm told
the board approve those. >> hold me to safe distance. >> So make so I think want say is I don't think it's written that the board has to make
decisions so we could make a decision to >> make a commitment to making middle school start time changes and ask our superintendent. To operation allies that that is something that we as a book we don't to
the table to work. Sessions. But if we want to do a formal motion to say the board is committed to making middle school start time changes and ask us to pretend operations and her best discretion. That doesn't have to this year.
That's something we could do. But it's not something we could do the work sessions. We don't take formal votes that work sessions so I'm gonna take my. One minute tournament. Then wrap up many times more hazardous, Mr.
Freshness, I apologize. Mister Tenet Sell it. You take turn and then I will take a turn.
Mr. For us. We can't hear you. But if you heard me or not. Take a turn, apologize. Excuse
>> So, yeah, I I would generally be opposed to taking any action in the work session. I think one of the good things about dozen base. >> We can't hear We can hear.
And Danielle, yeah, there seems to kind of double play. I'm hearing myself speak back to me. Can we can hear you? I
apologize >> and I as I was saying, I don't really want Don't want to take any kind of actions in a work session. That doesn't mean the motion can be brought
to a regular board meeting. I think the good things about a work session next steps in the process that follows is that it gives board members an opportunity to reflect what
everybody is And I think that's the whole point of a work session is to offer some time for us to think more deeply about the different places been raised. So happy to entertain a motion that a
regular meeting, but I wouldn't I wouldn't want that here. for a pilot I think there's a world of difference between a pilot that is
intended to see if it could work in other places and just doing a carve out for 3 schools. as we heard from staff you know, the preferred
pilot would be something that could be replicated. And I think you know, I think it was the next step consider saying how imagined would be an
expense to coming up. 3 middle schools without impacting other You know, just looking at the other options that we have in the report, anything
that minimized disturbance at to sit there at 2 elementary or high school or whatever. There's a big cost associated with that because you more
buses and bus drivers. So you know, I'd be open to a pilot where we're looking like staff has mentioned that an entire pyramid. But you know, I look forward to seeing everybody
brings to the next steps process. >> Thank you. And I appreciate that. I was going to see the same thing. I think the work sessions for us to talk through to see lots of questions I've heard from
colleagues that need to be followed up in. It's almost been a formal go to dinner at a meeting. Absolutely. But we don't take both your work. Sessions. couple is as want to comment back on and you can start my time. Much want to
comment back on what you are saying about the routing. I do remember that they had access to our routes in a sandbox, right. And the point I was
making is that and tell you, drive them right? Kids take different times to get on buses. I tell you the number of times I've been that parent when school starts in the bus is supposed to be there at a 10. And a 25 in a 35 and lo
and behold 3 weeks and we've moved the bus time riders of the kids are getting. just human by if you don't. The traffic is hard to predict and intel. We can drive some of
it. The significant change in routing times is me pause and it sounds like this pause as well, especially with the change of return to work. So I'm just going to leave that
there that I. I think if we could just shaved off 20 to 30 minutes off are routing time. think done that already. So I just think there's a lot of
questions with Zach, with childcare, with our staff with I mean, I would wear that our special education students and a pilot that isn't replicate we're going out of their pyramid. What the impact is on
that. If you change little school, start times. I don't. I think that's a big question before we do any pilot. What does this impact the kids that were not thinking about? I'll stop my time is up. I know
we're over time. I thank you for colleagues for going late. next steps document please put in your next steps on the next steps document. And if anyone wants to bring a regular meeting by all means you're
welcome to do that. Thank you for your time.