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This for city council meeting will now be called to order. Random clerk roll call please. >> Councelor Scadine >> here. >> Camara >> here. >> Canuel >> here. >> Dion >> here. >> Hart >> here. >> Pekkham. >> Pereira >> here. >> Reposo >> here. >> President Ponte

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>> here. Pursuant to the open meeting law, any person may make an audio or video recording of this public meeting or may transmit the meeting through any medium. Attendees are therefore advised such recordings or transmissions are being made whether perceived or unpersceived by those present and they're deemed acknowledged and permissible. First item

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on our agenda this evening is the public hearing and notice is hereby given in accordance with provisions of section 6-4A of the city charter that a public hearing will be called or held by the city council on June 2nd 2026 at 6:00

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p.m. in the city council chamber here at government center to hear all persons interested and wishing to be heard on the fiscal year 2027 municipal budget. This proposed operating budget is available for the public inspection at the Fall River Public Library, the main

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main branch, and the office of the city clerk or the Fall River website at fall rivermma.gov. Uh that is the notice that has been read into the record. >> At this time, it would be appropriate to open the public hearings. Motion made by

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councelor Raposo, seconded by councel kadim. All those in favor? >> Opposed. The eyes have it. Calling all proponents wishing to speak on this item. Calling all proponents. Hearing none. Calling all opponents wishing to speak. First person to sign

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up uh under opponents uh is Colin Das 560 Ray Street, Fall River. Thank you, council president. Just to be clear, it is a 3minut timer for um a public hearing as well. >> Yes. >> Okay. So, um thank you Colin Das 560 Ray

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Street. I am here in my um individual capacity as a member of the Florida River School Committee and the reason I'm here today is just um I have a question for this council and unfortunately I wasn't able to attend or watch the city council meeting yesterday. So, I know very little of

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what was said by our school department, but I do plan on watching it today. However, my question is this. So, the CFO, let me ask you go backwards. So, this school committee approved a budget in

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April. We sent it over to the city in April. MidMay, the city sends down their budget. And how is it that the CFO and the administration of this city can just change the numbers of the school department

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of the school department budget both transportation and our operating budget and does not inform our own CFO our superintendent our deputy superintendent our operations at the time that the budget was submitted. And I know that

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because that's what was told by them to members of this committee. If you're asking me, that's not collaborative government. That is not good government, and that is not transparent government. So, if I'm on

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this council, I'd be asking, how is that appropriate to put together a budget and then change that department, the budget for that department, change their numbers going into a new fiscal year without even informing them as such?

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I think if I'm on this council, I'd ask the question. I'd be asking I think as a council I think we need to be asking tougher questions to this administration. And just want to end on one last point. I know um councelor Pekham and the council president are pushing to lower

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the taxes the property taxes in the city. I want to commend them both for that effort and I hope other counselors join along and ask pertinent tough questions on this budget. Thank you. >> Thank you Mr. Dios. Calling all other

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opponents wishing to speak or be heard on this item. Calling all opponents. Hearing no further proponents or opponents. Is there a motion to close the hearing? Motion has been made by councelor Raposo, seconded by councelor Peekham. All those in favor? >> Opposed. The eyes have it.

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>> We'll be adjourning our public hearing and opening our committee on finance. >> A motion. We need a motion to adjurnn. You can motion to adjourn our public hearings has been made by councelor Raposo, seconded by councel. All those

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in favor opposed. The eyes have it. >> 605. 605. >> 605. >> This for city council committee on finance will now be called to order at 605. Madam clerk, roll call, please. >> Council Kadim >> here. >> Camara

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>> here. >> Can >> here. >> Dion >> here. >> Hart >> here. Peekom >> here. >> Pereira >> here. >> Raposo >> here. >> President Pontia >> here. Pursuant to the open meeting, Laura and a person may make an audio or video recording of this public meeting or may transmit the meeting through any

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medium. Attendees are therefore advised of such recordings or transmissions are being made whether perceived or unpersceived by those present and are deemed acknowledged and permissible. 605 are now at 606. Citizens input is the first item on our agenda this evening and there's one person who signed up to

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speak. It is Andre Lopes of 64 Hunter Street and the subject matter is this city. Three minutes, please. >> Good evening, council. >> Good evening. >> My name is Andre Lopes, uh 64 Hunter Street. I have something written here.

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Very nervous, so uh excuse me. Every time I watch one of these meetings, I leave with more questions than answers. I know I ain't the only one. This ain't really for me, but the people sitting there. This is for the people sitting at home, the people watching on Facebook, the people paying the taxes

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and the bills, the people trying to keep their heads above water while city hall keeps coming back asking for more money, more taxes, more fees, more borrowing, more spending. Now it's another almost $30 million for Bishop Connley. Maybe it's a

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good idea, maybe it ain't. But if you're asking taxpayers to pay another 29.8 8 million debt with another tax increase. Answer the questions. How much is the building? How much are the renovations? How much more are we going to spend after we buy it? Because people are

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tired of being told to trust us. The truth is a lot of people don't trust Kugan and this administration anymore. Not because somebody told them not to. Because they've watched the decisions. They've watched the controversies. They've watched the explanations. And they keep walking away with more

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questions than answers. Every time Kugan makes a decision, Ramsey seems to be standing right on the side of him telling everyone why it's fine. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. Before a lot of residents are sitting, it feels like Hooan makes a call and

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Romy explains why nobody should question it. And that's a problem. Let's be real. Every budget season, we hear the same thing. We don't do it for the money. It's not about the salaries. We don't get paid a lot to do this. Okay, then

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prove it. Cut some salaries. Cut some positions. Trim some fat from city hall because somehow there's always money for another administrator, another position, another project, another loan. By all means, cut me off when my 3 minutes is done. But when taxpayers are hurting,

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suddenly everybody has hands are tied. That don't make sense. Regular people cut back when uh money gets tight and even more when every year taxes go up. City hall should too. And before hiring more people, maybe make sure that the people already collecting a paycheck are actually producing results. Before

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adding positions, make sure the positions we already got are needed. And before asking taxpayers to pay for more officers, maybe deal with the concerns residents already have about accountability and public confidence. And it ain't just about money. People got questions about the warrant

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situation. People got questions about the investigations. People got questions about accountability because we're government power. Excuse me. When government power gets used against citizens, people aren't supposed to ask questions. >> 15 seconds. >> I'll end with that. Thank you.

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>> Thank you, Councilman C6. Council >> Andre, I just want to say I follow you on Facebook and I like your presence, right? I like people that get involved and come down and speak. So, I just wanted to say that. Thank you for coming down. Keep doing what you're doing. Keep spreading your word on Facebook and keep staying involved.

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>> Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. Next item on our agenda this evening is to continue our deliberations. >> Motion to lift the item from the t the budget from the table has been made by councelor reposo seconded by councel kadim. All those in favor opposed. The eyes have it. Next item is going to be

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the departments. There was no carryover from uh the other night. Uh so the next item in the next department is going to be public safety. Uh we're going to begin with police. Uh please come down to the table. Members of the administration and chief, uh, the police

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department will begin on page 119 120 in our budget books. >> Miss Arkkey here. >> She did. Okay. Very good. >> As we await, uh, if you can just please state your name and your role for the record.

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>> JT Provisional Chief of Police, uh, for the police department. Sergeant Peter Doo, administrative assistant to the chief of police and Soua interim interim city administrator. >> Thank you. Counselor in seat 8. Councelor Reposa. >> Good evening. >> Good evening.

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>> Welcome. Um just a few questions. Um should be really I think quick questions. Um the officers that were sworn in first. Congratulations to the new class. I just I was fortunate to be there. It was an excellent moment there. Um are those new officers reflected in this book? >> Yes, they're carried in the budget.

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They're already in there, correct? Okay. Excellent. >> Uh, five are still remaining in field training and the rest have already uh been integrated into the patrol bureau. >> Okay. So, the four vacancies that are currently in in the 209 personnel are

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still vacant. >> Correct. So, we have 13 that are uh in the process now and are going to be starting on June 22nd at the Plymouth Police Academy. I just met with our command staff and our hiring coordinator to determine a number. Uh arbitrarily

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right now we're looking at eight more to be added to the 13. Um I'm looking at increasing that because we're projecting not as many retirements that we've had over the last few years, but I kind of want to get ahead of the curve. Um because not only retirements affect us at the at the police officer level, but

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promotions. So we have some terminal uh leave into retirement uh situations that are occurring. So I will see, you know, some of the officers that are on the sergeants list potentially up to six kind of move up to the next rank and and it kind of goes up from there. So we

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want to prepare accordingly and so that additional eight may turn into a larger number. >> Chief, if I can just ask you to hold for a second, Mr. RP, just introduce yourself for the record, please. >> Emily Arbkey, CFO. >> All right, councel. Sorry about that. >> No, no worries. Um, so with that said

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and and the additional police coming on, we look at the overall overtime situation, um, do you feel going forward that we're going to see a reduction in that a little bit? Um, it seems like there's a little bit of that indicated already in this budget. Um, what are your overall feelings on that? So, I

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will say that collectively with both of the collective bargaining units within our agency uh that we're working on some measures for better overtime control, but inherently when you have a newer workforce. In 2025, we hired almost 50 new police officers. With that comes

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obviously inexperience, but also those that don't have as much vacation time. So, you'll have more people at work. So, inherently the back fill overtime will go down. Um, but we're looking at better control mechanisms as it relates to what creates overtime. Um, and we're also in

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negotiations right now with the patrol union as well as the superior officers union. Uh, and in those conversations, I can't really speak to, but uh, they're open for suggestions and willing to work with us. >> Awesome. Um, if we can just go to the actual expenses for one second. um the

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other other professional services which we'll find ourselves about the midway point of page 121. Um I I think it's been a general question we've asked around as far as what other professional services are deemed as, but

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can you touch on a little bit what that increase is proposed for? >> So we have money that's budgeted in there for potential uh promotional uh assessment centers. Uh this past uh couple weeks ago, we did do an assessment center for the ranks of lieutenant and captain.

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>> Uh we also have um money budgeted for any type of outside investigations that we may need to uh contract for. >> Okay. And then a few lines down is other communications. Can you elaborate on what other communications? >> So other communications is a line that

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we're kind of revising the contents of. Um, it's really focusing on the Flock technology, the cameras that we've uh you guys have helped invest in and the ones that we currently have and we're looking at expanding our uh partnership with Flock. So, those will be reflected in that line.

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>> Okay. And then just one more question. I found it odd that we would cut the gasoline budget expense line item for the police department considering we need that. So, is there can can we can we just to Emily if we could explain why that may be the case? Um they it's been

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historically budgeted at the 250 per year and they haven't hit 250 a year in >> ever. Yeah. So it it is still an increase from what they're actually looking at. Um >> this year we're we are on track for that like 205. So the 230 is still an

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increase with the increased costs, but um it's not necessarily going to need to be up to 250 for that. >> Okay. So to the chief, I'll ask with with new officers coming on, do you envision more vehicles being on the road at this point? >> So we're looking at some some

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adjustments that we're going to make in how we deploy our resources. I think innovation doesn't always speak to buying something new. It speaks to how we can use the resources we currently have. Uh it may result in maybe doubling up cars because we're reaching a point where manpower is uh reaching the ability to be able to do that. So I

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don't see an expansion of vehicles. Um I mean we all know what the price at the pump is right now. Obviously, we have a contract price, so we're monitoring it closely as it has been elevating over the last couple of months. I was just speaking with Sergeant Deles on that. But I don't anticipate a a huge increase

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in vehicles based on more personnel. I think what you'll see is uh the resources just being deployed a little differently. If we do expand, it would only be by less than a handful of vehicles. >> Correct. And just you mentioned that contract price for the gasoline. Is there have has there been any changes with that with the current gas prices

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that are going on? So it is always a changing price. So there's obviously some level of you know contracted rate but it is a constantly changing rate. So um across the board between police and also with DCM the um last rate that I was given was 270 a gallon for um the

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regular gas. So it's definitely up from what it had been. I think the previous rate was closer to an average of like 250. Um, so the 270 is definitely an increase, but it's still it's not what people see at the pumps in that sense. >> Understood. That's all I got. Thank you, gentlemen. Appreciate it. >> I yield.

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>> Thank you, Councilman C3. Council annual. >> Thank you. I have some questions. So, just It looks like there's some money shifting with street lights and the traffic signal replacements. Uh, I think uh street lights FY26 projected spend is 93,000. Uh, but we're back down to the

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budget 50 for that. But then when I head down, I don't know if they're related, but the line item for traffic signal replacements, we've spent 150,000 and FI25, 165, and 26, but we're only budgeting 30,000 27 for that.

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>> So that's that's part of um the movement with Chris Haway to DCM. Uh we have the signal division that still exists in the police department which has always been kind of an awkward part of our organizational chart because he would manage the street lights and signals.

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Those budgetary items uh are related to projects that Chris had ongoing and we'll we'll move with him to DCM. >> So speaking specifically to the traffic signal replacements portion um there's only about 30,000 that's historically been in there for actual replacement

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parts, more of maintenance within those. the rest of it is usually a set intersection to be completely replaced. So, that's a much bigger cost. The what was kind of in here um was even bigger than a normal one and we've been talking about it through the capital process.

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So, that's why there isn't any um actual intersections necessarily scheduled in this at this point in time. So, that's the decrease in that. >> Okay. I didn't think we put any of the reorgarch stuff into the budget. >> We we didn't. So he was just saying that the person to really speak to all of

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that would be Chris, but um in the sense of the replacements, it's not that's not what's moving around. It's that because of the So it's traffic signal replacements. So there's no whole replacement in this budget this year that there have been in the past years. This year it's just the parts just due

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to the what is needed right now at some of these intersections that he has. >> And counselor, historically the replacements would be if there was a downed traffic signal by a car accident. And I know firsthand that uh Mr. Hathaway has done a great job with insurance claims and getting insurance companies to pay for those replacements.

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So as far as uh why it's budgeted where it's at, it would be Mr. Hathaway. Uh Deb could expand upon more on that. >> Okay. U my colleague and Cday asked a couple of my questions around professional services and communications, but I do have

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communications lines and equipment. This is a $60,000 increase over what we've spent and budgeted for an FY26. Going to see what that >> So, those are for the cameras that were

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paid for by ARPA. >> Yeah. So, there was a a public safety committee meeting that we discussed uh legal dumping and the council moved to get us some funding for some extra cameras. That got us one year of a contract and now we have to assume that into our budget. So, um, that's what

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that increases. >> And that's related to the f cameras on the other communications line item. >> Yes. So, there's a software service, but then there's actual cameras that also have like a I'm going to say like a lease on them. >> Correct. The cameras are not owned by

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us. They're leased, which has a benefit of if there's any issues with it. But the communications lines and equipment would be for anything related to the surveillance pole cameras, which we discussed. The other professional services is uh the line that we discussed around monies for external

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investigations, uh the promotional assessment center cost if we decide to do that again. And then there was um some miscellaneous stuff related to um some training tracker software that we're going to speak with MIS as far as moving that into their containers in the future budget, but it's something we're

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assuming this year. >> Okay. other purchase services. Uh this uh line item is doubling to $29,745 from where we're at right now. Just kind of wanted again a vague bucket, just a little more information. So that

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contains the the car wash and decontamination annual services uh that we have for our vehicle fleet. It also contains um other items that again are going to be conversations that we have with MIS and how this is assumed in our budget or potentially theirs. Uh it's

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related to the subscriptions for all traffic solutions uh which is the sign boards that you see out there and the speedboards that we have. Um they're all cloud-based so they collect data and there's a a maintenance contract with that. Uh so those that's reflected

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there. Um so I think that's where you see the increases. That's where those items have been assumed in the budget. Uh we also have crash data retrieval software. So, we've expanded our ability in our motor vehicle and enforcement unit to do more investigative things

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with crash reconstruction and the ability to pull blackbox data from newer vehicles. And then there's a miscellaneous uh item in there around police identification cards. Uh inherently we have to do identification cards for police officers when they get

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hired. Uh and they're basically state configured. So, there's a $1,200 amount in that line that is specifically for that. >> Okay. >> The council recently approved the capital purchase for the replacement of

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the police guns. Part of that detail was that this would hopefully lead to a savings in ammunition cost. I was just wondering when those might be purchased and whether or not we will see any benefit of a savings in fiscal 27 or whether that will be beyond. So, we just

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uh went ahead and finalized the ammunition purchase, but with the 40 caliber amount. So, we're procuring or getting the 40 caliber ammunition at that price. Uh, as I discussed in the last time we talked about this topic, it's about a 90 to $100 per case saving.

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Um, so we have qualifications coming up in October, which we're really hoping to have the new firearms ahead of the October uh, qualifications so that we can issue the new firearms and then start to use the different ammunition. We've already had interim conversations

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with the supplier and they're willing to give us a 90 to $100 credit per box. So, it would be a onetoone trade. Uh, I can't tell you how that looks as far as savings because it's all in the timing of if we get the guns before October. If we don't get the new guns before

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October, then we'll be qualifying with the 40 calibers that we currently have. We can't delay that process because it's a timing mechanism with police certification and the inservice training requirements for the state. >> Okay, two more questions. Uh, office

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furniture and equipment. This line item was rising $13,000 over last year or this fiscal year I should say. I just kind of want to understand it looks like we're investing heavily in office furniture. >> We've we've got some really aging

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furniture in the uh the building as far as chairs are concerned. Uh so from administrative functions whether it be in our record room uh or administrative functions within the police officers that work inside the building, chairs need to be replaced uh as well as in the dis dispatch center. Um so we have desks

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that need to be replaced as well. So there's been some renovations that we've done through facilities. Uh but some of the replacement of the um chairs and furniture is going to come out of this line and that's why it's reflected there. >> Okay. My final question uh perhaps uh Sergeant

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Doo can answer it. Uh I think uh I was just as I was going through the stipens budget um your stipen is 16,472 and I was just looking for information um what that's related to uh is in the performance of your duties or how that

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works. I I didn't find anybody else with that type of stipen. >> So that's something that goes back for several decades. It was a contractual agreement that the officer that serves as the executive assistant to the chief received that stipen. >> Okay. Thank you. That concludes my questions. Thank you Mike. >> You hear counselor? I do.

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>> Thank you councelor in C7. Councelor Pereira >> question I have is on the six patrolman that you are vacant now and you said that all the new hires we have filled in. Are you looking at many retirements?

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Are you looking at six retirements over the years? Because you said there's eight more going in. >> So I have I have a fif about 15 people that are either about five are looking at truly retiring. >> Okay. Okay. Uh 10 are on some long-term term leave, either looking at some type

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of uh retirement because of disability. Um and others are out uh we still have some officers out from the shooting that occurred in February. Um so those will be if they come back, they'll be plus to our numbers. Um so that 15 block is essentially a moving target a little

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bit, but truly I'm looking at five retirements within the next fiscal year. >> And how about dispatchers? Now you have like you have 32 people in dispatch but there are seven vacancies >> correct >> in dispatch. Are you looking to hire those seven individuals? Are you looking

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at anybody leaving dispatch? >> So we had one resignation actually today. Uh we'll be doing uh a post on our Facebook page and a hiring uh sweep again to try to bolster our numbers there. Um the problem being is our capacity for training. We run into the

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same issue with police officers. So uh for many years everyone's saying we'll just splash in and hire 30 officers at one time. Is that achievable? Yes. Um but the issue is is how do we train them? So uh our sweet spot for hiring is anywhere from 10 to 15 officers at a

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time with the amount of trainers we have for the dispatch center. Uh obviously a whole different format and training in there. I think the capacity we're looking at is three to four at one time when we're at full capacity. So to do the hiring, we would have to do two batches of four in order to do that. So

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I did have a conversation with the command staff today and we'll be launching a hiring uh campaign this week. >> Another question uh or another statement that I'd like to make. I like the initiative where you said we have more officers and the number of vehicles we

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have to put two officers in one vehicle. I think that makes a lot of sense because even if the police are responding to a domestic violence, you have to wait till your other till someone else arrives before you can even enter that home. So, I think having two

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officers together in a car is is a good thing that people will get a quicker response. >> I think you're absolutely right and I think because we've been working so long with less resources, we're just used to running one man vehicles. So I think when we're reaching that point, it's not

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only uh an awareness of it, but making some data driven decisions. So we had a a meeting with our crime analysts. We're looking at certain hot spots in the city that we can get away from the traditional sector driven response model and looking at where, you know, citizens problems are and then doubling up a

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cruiser in that area because then that gives us a little bit more flexibility. I remember being out to respond and having a police officer there or we had to wait for another officer to come for everybody's safety. >> Uh and I don't know if this question is pertinent to you or to Emily when we do

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the civil service. We're in the process of doing civil service. If we go statewide or we go citywide, but if we go statewide, we have to pay $1,000 for each person who's taking the exam.

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Does that come out of the police budget or out of the city's budget? So, in other words, if you want to do a test and you open it statewide and you get 50 people that applied, the city is on the hook for charging $1,000 a piece

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for people to take that exam. Is that correct? >> So, I um ran the captain and lieutenant assessment center for the police department. So as far as how that works is >> the civil service uh department of the state does not have the modality to do

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that. So you have to do a delegated agreement with a third party company. On the fire side, they do have the ability to do assessment centers that are just like the written test. They they proctor it. So when you do a third party company, the average cost for any uh candidate that takes an assessment

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center is about $1,000. So we had approximately 15 people that were involved in the captain and lieutenants rank. So it cost us $15,000 out of our budget to cover that assessment center. So your math is correct. If you open it statewide and you set that standard,

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then it's $1,000 per person that signs up. You can charge, I believe, up to $250 per person that signs up for that test um to kind of offset it. Um, but you're still going to assume a $750 uh cost for each person that takes

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>> and that would come out of your budget. >> That's a decision. >> What would it come out of the city's budget? >> We've never had a chief of police assessment center, so I don't know where you would budget that from. >> Does anybody know? >> We have not had that conversation yet as to where it would come from. No,

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>> because then if you go statewide and you have 50 people, that's 50 grand. or if people want to pay 20 $250. I know the proctor exam um costs money. Um the other thing I'm looking at is the harbor

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master. >> I think they do a a decent job. Um but I'm wondering to get more for the community. Uh if you have more docks or wherever people can hook up, would that be the police department getting the

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money into the harbor masses budget? So the harbor master stands alone on the revenues that it achieves. So even though the hopper master is a police officer now because of uh police exactly. So uh officer Olivera does a great job out there. He's looking at

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increasing his civilian staff. Um officer Katz is actually going to come back. He was going to retire, but he's coming back to help us out. So uh he might have a change and may stay. So we'll be able to have two officers in there. I hope that he decides to do that. But with that said, the revenues and the budget is a separate entity from

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the police. So it doesn't come to us. >> So there's other funding outside of what you see in the general fund that fund the work within the harbor master that isn't reflected here. So there is additional funds that are being >> utilized and things like that that people pay for. That funding should go back to the harbor master.

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>> It does in a different fund is what's happening. So that's why you don't see it operating in the general fund in that sense. >> I'd like to see if that increased or decreased. If you could just get that information. me. I'm just curious to see if it increased or decreased. And I think the harbor master does a great job and um Paulie Silva who's out there too

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helping all the time. Uh really they work so well together. But I think like you know putting a raft out for people to be able to uh get a kayak into the pond or whatever. Those are services for our community and I don't know where

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that money would come from other than money. So there's there is an anticipated uh expansion of the mooring field. I know that we just reviewed that with the RDA a few months ago. So uh there is expansion going on out there with the ability. >> I talk to him every year about that. I >> bet you do. >> We'll see. And let me let me ask you

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this. I think basically for the public to know, how much do we have in grants this year that have come in or federal grants that we're using? I don't know if uh uh Chief Wh if anybody could respond to that. So, we have several different grants that come in and outside funding.

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One of the ones that we're really striving to take advantage of is a hiring or retention uh grant that came from the federal government through COPS. Uh 2.375 million. That's an expansion grant. Similar terms as like the safer grant where you can grow.

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>> Uh depending if there's a collective bargaining agreement adjustment that occurs, we could fund potentially 18 to 19 more positions with that on top of what's budgeted here. So, uh, I spoke at the graduation ceremony, the swearing in that, you know, we could potentially reach numbers that we haven't seen since

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2009. That's the the nitro booster right there is if we can reach that number by getting these 13 and eight in, then we would be able to start moving in the direction to start hitting that federal grant money. >> Thank you. What do we have now? 181, 187.

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>> So, total police officers is 218. >> 218 now. >> Correct. 218 sworn. uh that is on the that's being paid out of the budget. We're funded at 224. Uh when we get these 13 and 8, we'll probably be in the 230 range. Ideally, I'd like to be

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>> when we can get things really going in the great direction is we're getting in the 240 250 range. That's when we start to get a lot more flexibility. You're going to see 2, three, four man, four twoman cars and we can start to really do a lot more uh creative things.

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Well, I think the interdep departmental conversation now is a plus where people are sharing information with one another. >> I I see good things happening there. But thank you very much for your hard work and to your the men and women in your department. Thank you. With that I yield

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Mr. President. >> Thank you councelor. Councilman seat one. Councilin. >> Thank you Mr. President. Uh just several questions. So the first question I have is buyouts. You mentioned that there are five retirements. >> Correct. So I guess to either you or to

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the CFO, why why didn't we budget the uh employee buyback? >> So the employee buyouts. So we >> I mean sorry by y >> we historically haven't been in this department. Um we've only been doing that employee buyout budgeting within

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fire. Um my understanding and reviewing the actuals is because of the staffing levels um and then the way the turnover is taking place. there really hasn't been a need. There's been enough vacancy savings um within the department to cover it. I know we're now talking about I'm going to say not being in that range

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anymore, but to be honest with you, because we don't fully know yet, I think the plan is to get through this year, see what that really looks like um for the police department and then most likely in FY28 moving forward if if we are able to maintain the staffing, we'll start budgeting for it. But it's it's

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such an unknown um amount that we'd really need at this point. Well, I I recognize that, but he he's he's got the five employees that he anticipates going to be retiring. So, you would be able to pull that out. So, you you're telling me the 56 566,000 that you did in FY25

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and then the 477,000 that was projected. You covered all that within the salaries. >> Correct. That's how it's been. I know right now the projection is a little bit off, but some of the overtime is also off with the storm. So, it's it's not quite reflecting the same way um at this

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point in time. Um and then some of the projections, you know, I'm not obviously we're not 100% sure if any of the overtime is going to change, but historically looking back, there's not only been enough to cover, but there's still been turnback within their salaries each year. So, um that's been kind of the basis. And again, I know

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that we're talking about that changing, but because it's not we don't we don't know exactly what that'll look like. can sort of just make a decision to start budgeting for it for an amount that we may not actually need felt um unwise at this point. We also do have um

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that reserve set up still for the employee benefits that would be able to be tapped into if we are running short. >> So I I guess where are we with vacancies this year? It seems like we're pretty pretty caught up right on the vacancies. >> So around the I think the total number right now is six. Uh one of them is not reflected in this budget because we just

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had a promotion a couple weeks ago. So, six, but then obviously the expansion will happen with the five that are retiring and then the ability to start using that cops grant. >> The other part of it too is when somebody retires, they're usually being then filled at a much lower level

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between, >> you know, either new um ranking officers coming in or even just filling in, you know, a patrolman that's at a higher years of service to a new one. So there ends up being even if there's not necessarily a vacancy savings, there's that turnover savings that kind of

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naturally also happens. So between all of those things, it ends up covering more than it you would expect it to. >> Mr. Kim, just so for your edification, I I'm aware of that and I'm interested in like what the cost is like when someone retires. So I understand the salaries

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line has absorbed it but um obviously looking at superanuation and what benefits they're entitled to I I want to build out something so that we can see and engage that. I think there's some mechanisms in place through the last collective bargaining agreement where comp time is capped at 480. That's

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something that is in there. So as far as that being budgeted we've got a ceiling on that. I know that's been the unfunded liability conversation has been a big one over the last decade, but that's kind of sealed. The average amount of cashable comp time that an employee has in our building right now is about 100

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hours. So, uh, the biggest buyout that they have is based on their vacation time, >> right? And I recognize that I I just feel like we're we're no longer in the I guess the levels where we have the number of vacancies that we've had,

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right? So I I think you're you're actually increasing. >> Right. >> Right. More more so. And so I I know you're not necessarily at full capacity. It's it's almost impossible to get to full capacity, but you know, you budget at 224, you're at 218. You're looking to get potentially a 230 240. I just from

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from my standpoint, I' I'd like to know what the buyout uh portion is. I I mean I just we're just relying on a lot of turnbacks that are coming in through the the salaries and and then if it's not there, we're coming back and we're just looking for transfers either from

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somewhere else or or free cash. So I just think when you're when you're looking at an operating budget, if you know you've got a a cost associated with with retirement bios, you got to you got to buy them out. Why why would we budget it? And I and I hear what you're saying in terms of you got to balance the

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budget, but then at that point >> we got to find from some other line item, right? So, >> but >> I mean because because my thing is logic would tell you that if if you're not filling the positions, we've got retirements coming in, then that means there's more overtime, right? So, you

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got the buyouts, you got the overtime that's coming in. So, there's more cost associated with it. So, I'm just from my standpoint, I mean, I I know I can't change it, but I' I'd like to see it. We we know we had 566,000 last year, 477,000 projected this year. You know, it just it's it's just kind of

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truth and advertisement in terms of what we're looking at. And you know, when the general public goes and looks at these this budget, you know, we should be able to show that there's there's retirements. We know that there are retirements. So, and I'll just move on. So, in in terms of

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the body cameras, we the contract that we currently have, is that rolling off or >> No, it's still valid. I believe we're we have another year and a half left on that. So, that would be a topic for next budget. >> Okay. And then I know there's a lot of communities that are currently dealing with IMC

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>> um kind of going end of life. Are we looking at replacing that that system? >> Part of the capital improvement plan. It's it was in that capital improvement plan uh in fiscal 28 to start to embark on that. Uh we have been looking at the the successor to IMC uh which uh central

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square uh purposes being is data migration. Uh I've been in touch with several agencies that have made the jump to it. There's only a couple that are using it. Um they like it. Obviously it has a lot more features. Uh but we've ran into this problem before with IMC

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where they say end of life end of life and they try to position their customers to move and they don't move. So then they keep extending it. But um we are we have it in our capital improvement plan and I we're already in conversations with them over the last two years.

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>> Perfect. >> The bulletproof vest line item is that just to offset the the grant that's coming in so you don't run deficits with the the grant or what's the 10,000? >> So if you notice in last year we did start to zero it out because it is

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typically fully covered. Um there was some additional amounts that are being requested for >> Yes. Uh, councelor Kadeim, in regards to that line, um, the grant allows us to recoup uh, the vest uh, per officer every five years, uh, there are

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occasions where uh, something occurs where an officer is otherwise ineligible to be reimbursed. So that $10,000 allows us um, in those particular cases where we can't get reimbursement uh, from the grants where we have something to draw

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from to make a purchase for that officer. >> Perfect. And then my final question is um about a quarter of the way down the workers compensation. Can you just explain that? Is that workers comp? Is that 111F?

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That's question one. Question two, if it is workers comp or even 111F, why why is it not captured with the under insurance and other will we have the workers comp line item for 365,000? So on the sheet I have here for workers

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compensation, it uh breaks out for a couple of other costs associated with that which is uh drug testing, psychological exams, um IOD medical claims and then we have uh a medical claim services contract with Guardian

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and then it's our our FSA employee assistance program with FSA that's in that line as well. So, it's it's a little misleading in terms of >> Yeah, probably >> the title. >> Yep. Okay. >> We can add that to the list of things to retitle.

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>> All right. And then you don't So, what you have in in terms of for the insurance line item for workers comp that that doesn't include any of the 111F stuff for a police or fire. >> I guess I'm looking forward to you, Emily. >> Yeah. But I am you're saying in the base

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wages or are you talking about the so the wages are I think still captured within the wages at that point. This is for the actual costs of the medical expenses. >> Yeah. So so you don't there there are other expenses for work workers comp too. So what what's what's in the

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insurance other you've got you've got to split split out. >> You mean in the back of the book? >> Yeah. So, it's for the it's for the non police department ones. Those are the workers comp is more about the legal fees, the actual processing of some of

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those payments for the um general government employees and the school department employees outside of obviously police and fire, >> but those are more for the actual >> No, no, I re I recognize that. So, you're capturing all the workers comp for the rest of the departments in a specific general insurance and other

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category. And I'm asking we've got 111F some workers comp both in police and fire. Why wouldn't that be consolidated in that other account? >> This is I mean this is the way it's always been broken out. We can obviously move it over. It's it's really just a reallocation of it though. It's it's still the same services whether it's

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broken out between them or not. But we can look at that. >> Right. I guess who who's who's managing the 111FS? Would that not be coming from HR? H is HR or the law department not dealing with workers comp and 111F? You folks are >> they're talking about paying the bills. >> No, just manager. If an officer goes

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out, >> the department head for each agency manages it. >> Noted. Got it. Uh Lord upon that cuts. Got it. Thank you. >> Uh with that I yield. >> Thank you councelor and seat to councelor Kamar.

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>> Thank you. Much of what I was interested in has already been said but I do have one question. Chief, I know you talked about doing different things in different initiatives. >> We had the library person in front of us last week and I mentioned substation. >> Any possible chances that there could be anything going on with the substation in

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that general area if not the for public library or nearby? Is that something that you would >> So I spoke to some business owners on South Main Street as well because obviously we've had some issues down there and you know they want a great idea to have too. >> Yeah. So um I'm up for any of those ideas. uh we'd have to look at how we

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going to staff that model and how we do it. I know there's other agencies in the area that have it and then it's the presence of it and then engaging our officers to do it. Um but I think it's a good idea just from, you know, the presence of it being there and giving our officers another place maybe to stop and do a report or use the facilities

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there, what have you. >> Yeah. No, I agree. I think in areas like the south end where there's been some trouble areas and for library and the north end, I think would be a great idea for both of A couple ideas I've been throwing out with our rank and file too is we're going to start having some roll calls in some of the city parks and have the officers meet in a park and we'll

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just do our roll calls out there and then deploy from there just to kind of change it up and and >> visibility is huge in police protection >> 100%. >> Yeah, I think you're doing a great job since you've been there and uh good luck to you and your crew and I know you guys do a wonderful job. >> Thank you. >> With that I yield. Thank you. >> Thank you councelor in C6 council.

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>> Good evening. >> Good evening. >> I'm going to echo my concerns with the employee buyouts. Um, I do have this, it was an original question of mine, so I do have concerns on council kadim. Um, walking beats. >> Mhm. >> What are we doing with that? I know

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there's been some discussion. So, there's some line item that has for additional walking beats that you guys have funded through the budget. Uh, we are using those currently to attack certain areas of hotspots. Old Second Street was one of the areas. Uh, we're doing some now in the Flint because

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we've gotten some community concerns over there. Uh we're looking at ways to innovate how we do our patrol sector. So, um, what I'm looking at is getting some data to drive where we're going to do the working beats and then kind of

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change the model and and and speak with our command staff on what realistically we can do to build it into an officer's shift potentially where couple of hours is dedicated to getting out of the cruiser, putting themselves out on a short-term uh code 20 and go out there and walk around and make some

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engagements. I think that's a huge thing, especially I think you saw in our swearing in ceremony. We have a lot of people that were not born in For River that are now living here. So, I think it's huge for them to get out there and understand the heritage and the community of Fall River. Um, so we're looking at some of those innovative

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ideas to kind of change it up a little. >> Okay. Yeah, I appreciate that, Chief. Thank you. Um, that's all I have. I had an overtime question, but council repos would ask this. So, I appreciate you guys. Thank you. With that, I yield. >> Thank you, Councilman C5. Council Hart. >> Thank you, Mr. President. Good evening. Uh, Chief, I was going to comment on the

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uh the walking beats is six budgeted right now. >> So that's you're talking about walking beats through the CDA. So those walking beats are basically what we call our neighborhood engage enforcement and engagement enforcement team. Um, so they were the traditional walking beats through CDA. Uh, they go out and do

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their thing based on their their roles and responsibilities. I'm looking at expanding that because I think the patrol bureau, that's the boots on the ground 24/7 365. Um, so it's not just a neat team issue. I think it's a police department issue. So, if we can get out there and be more visible, not just with

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driving by with cars, but getting out and walking and talking, that's something that I'm a big proponent of. >> Yeah. No question about it. I think that's a major part integral part of of what you guys do as as far and as far as getting into the neighborhoods, it's key. Um, being, you know, going into I know you guys attend the neighborhood

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meetings. Yes. Um, but I think as well with the uh with the um with the walking beachs, I think by you know going into areas that you normally don't go correct. >> Um I think that's something and that that's what I would I what I would like to see was maybe have more walking

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beats. Um, and also too, there was it was mentioned about the the harbor master and you know, and I know you have a plan ready and you're working on it, but the increase um in the waterfront coming uh with the harbor master. You said that you're you're looking to hire

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more people or he is looking to hire more people. We're going to need to hire a lot of people for the harbor master and the the chief of fire as well uh to do that. And I think the having w the walking beat down there um is there like a a major like a plan? you've got something to plan, but what do you what

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do you foresee down there? >> Well, it's just breaking down the way it's always been and how the thought process is is that we're just stuck in the same lane. So, encouraging our command staff to think outside of the box and come up with innovative ways to use the resources we already have. So, um you know, sometimes we just get into

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the function of, you know, councelor Pekkham knows he worked in our building. There's 12 sectors. They get driven to the sectors. we can break down those walls and just say, "All right, the area we want to focus on is down on the waterfront." Uh, spin through. And that's kind of what we've been doing with some of these hot spots is it goes

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on the clipboard, if you will, and we say, "Listen, it doesn't matter if you're working in the north end or the south end. Everybody's going to pass by this area and take a look at what's going on because you never know when you might be working in the sector that patrols that area." So, it's a familiarity with the city first and foremost, but also the engagement with

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the community. So, I'm a big proponent of that. Especially, like I spoke, there's a lot of new officers here that are eager, but they just don't know much about Forever because they haven't been here for long. So, in order to do that, they have to get out into the community both personally and professionally. >> And and I see in the budget as well, the

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Quinn pay. Um, and I know I've mentioned this before, but back when we first started on the council, um, I got together with Mayor Lambert and a few other police officers about the Quinn bill. They implemented it. Uh 10% for associates, 20 for bachelors, 25 for masters.

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>> Correct. >> Um and it it's obviously from the state it's been slashed. >> Yes. >> Um it's no longer like I think back then it was 50/50. >> What does it look like now? I see what it's budgeted here, but that looks pretty low for >> So that's just somebody that's still getting a semianual Quinn payment. So

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Quinn is obviously Okay. We've had the wake in the funeral for Quinn. I think a lot of the agencies in Massachusetts have moved towards an education incentive and kind of broadened the uh thing. So, we're in talks with the unions on how we can do certain things to also innovate how we we pay that

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incentive and and build it into some type of retention piece, too. So, we don't want to give the bank away right up in front. Like, if you stay with us, then there's steps to that. These are things that we're actively discussing in negotiations. >> All right. That that's fine. And that's going to be bargained with the uh Okay.

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Um, all right. That's pretty much all I have right now, but I do like the idea of what you just said is all the roll calls in the parks. I think that that would be very, you know, something very good. >> Yeah, why not? >> So, and I I I appreciate what you're doing. Uh, so far so good. Off to a right step and keep it up. >> Thank you.

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>> All right. Thank you. I yield. >> Thank you, counselor. In C7, Councelor Pereira, >> just one thing I want to ask about the details. Um, some of the officers will work a detail, some won't, some have to be forced in. What What work is being

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done on that? Um, >> we have a sergeant that's full-time that oversees it. That's something we implemented several months ago. >> Uh, it's a voluntary basis thing. So, we have competing interests. There's a lot of infrastructure work going on both from the city as well as uh, you know,

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from the uh, Liberty Utilities National Grid. I think the citizens can tell. I know I'm frustrated. It's almost like every street in the city is opened up on a daily basis. So, uh there are certain days there are more guys available to work than not. Uh but it's a voluntary basis thing. So, I know I've been

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working with Mr. Aguia from the planning u department around the work on Columbia Street, making sure that's properly staffed. But from a collective bargaining agreement and policy standpoint, I can't force somebody to work details. I think there's some things in place with where we may be

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going with our collective bargaining and how we schedule our resources and our officers and patrol bureau that would get more officers available to work details. >> But let me ask you for officers who've retired, if you've gone through your list of volunteers of officers, but

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there's still details. >> What is the age criteria for officers who've retired? is >> so they age out at 70 because of the home rule petition that we did back in 2020 when we went or 2021 when police reform went into effect. So I've had several conversations with some retirees

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that are over 70 that are interpreting the law in a certain different way. The post commission actually had a hearing a few weeks ago where they dedicated some time to speak on it. Um, the only way around allowing someone to work beyond the age of 70 with police powers,

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meaning carrying a gun and and being presented as a police officer, uh, is if they maintain their certification. But after 70, the officers based on our home room petition don't. So, in order for them to be able to work details, they would have to be kind of like a community service officer that doesn't carry a gun, that doesn't have police

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powers, but that's a collective bargaining issue. So, the patrol union would have to negotiate almost a tier for those type of people. And then from an administration standpoint, I need a policy that governs that >> that I just wondered. I know some that are over 70 that have said, "I could

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still do it." And I'm sure that they could, but >> Sure. >> And the other thing when you're talking about innovation and things that you're doing at the police department, I know we have bike patrols. Um, but these ebikes and mopeds, uh, we've got to get a handle on that. And I don't know what

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other communities are doing or what initiatives your department would come up with. >> So, we're working on expanding our partnership with uh the flock technology which will help us with being able to identify certain vehicles, whether it be a moped or or a car or a person. Uh so,

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I think that type of surveillance will help. Chasing these individuals around is high risk. It puts the city at high risk. It puts our officers at risk. As far as our own bike patrols, we have several more ebikes of our own on order. We have several officers that are signed up to get the actual training associated

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with operating a police uh >> bicycle and and the laws associated with it. I also think you see the governor taking a stance on the ebikes because you're seeing young children that get these ebikes and modify them and and and take the governor off and it goes faster than some of the mopeds that have an actual gasoline engine. So, it's a

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problem we're aware of. Um, and we'll look at the data to drive where we're seeing this happen. Uh, but again, I'm not going to endorse chasing them around because we're going to end up with some type of tragedy. I think it's more so from a surveillance standpoint and then doing our best to do the traffic enforcement associated with this.

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>> I know that there was some on the purchases of ebikes for some of the police officer, which which is good, but um, you know, if they're out there, they see what's going on and may have some suggestions. So, I think that that's good that we look to the entire

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department to come up with what are you seeing? What do you think will work? I think working collaboratively with your entire force um is beneficial and it makes everybody feel like they're important and they're part of solving problems. So, but those are the two

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things that I wanted to check on. With that, I yield. Thank you. >> Thank you, Councelor. Council C1, Councelor Kadim. >> Thank you, Mr. President. So, some of the responses I get are are unbelievable. I can actually hear my brain rebooting so I forget to actually finish up my questioning. >> So I'm going to go back to the final

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question that I had. You had talked about staffing 218 to 24 uh 224 and then potentially 230 to 240 or 250. >> Have we had a conversation and I mean we mean the administration and and the police department in terms of what that staffing looks like. Is it sustainable moving forward? Um what's the plan over

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a fiveyear period to get to I guess whatever number we're saying? I know I know you said you're saying we can do a lot of a lot of things with the 240 and 250. I'm just trying to figure out what that really looks like in the budget. >> So, my goal is to get to that that cops grant and that cops grant the money uh

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in speaking with Sergeant Duz and looking at the grant ourselves. Uh we already got an extension on that. Uh so we haven't used it. It was a three-year period. Um so we only have about two years left. My goal is it's hard to ask for an extension if you're not even using it yet. So, we're putting the

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pedal to the metal to get there and then we can reach out to get that extended and that kind of works to your point like the safer grant. It's going to get us the jump start, but how do we absorb that in the budget? Um, I've spoken with Emily and the mayor and the city administrator regarding that. Um, we just have to create that problem first.

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We're not there yet. We keep getting almost there and we drop down and it's been happening for the last two years. Um, but I'm pretty confident within this fiscal year we'll be able to start tapping into it. >> Okay. Well, and I I think you'll always be there, right, where you you budgeted, but you never really kind of get to the full compliment because of that. But

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>> correct. >> I just want to make sure that we're looking at it and it it fits into the budget. That's all. >> Uh, so I I just want to go back to the 111F and the workers comp. So, do we have a company whether it's Gary Group for 111F or Mega for workers comp? We

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don't have a company that actually does that. >> We use Guardian for 111F. >> So, you use Guardian? Guardian Services does all the >> the workers comp we do internally. >> Okay. So we don't have So we have So how many folks do you have on 111F

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>> right now? I believe three. >> I guess I'll ask the fire department when they come down. I just I guess I'm shocked that police and fire are doing 111F. I mean that's if it's not a full-time job, it's a part-time job. I know you got Guardian or whatever company, but if you're not staying on top of them, you could have when we

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start talking about staffing levels, you could have, you know, uh, PE folks out on injury for years, right? Not following up with the, you know, whatever, uh, the third party vendor is to make sure that the medical exams are coming in or if we're filing disability

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retirement or anything like that that's tying up real positions. So, I'm just I guess I'm a little confused why police and fire are handling that and not either human resources or the law department. That to me is the biggest thing. And >> so, I can only answer to what we've done as an agency for the police department.

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Sergeant Das played a huge part in this because he recognized that gap and it's a full-time job and in doing all the claims and what's eligible, what's not eligible, the pricing for the entire time that I can look back, the police department was always involved in doing that. With Guardian now, it's a much

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cleaner process because we had complaints from our officers like, "Hey, I got hurt on the job. I went to the the doctor. They need a claim number." That's all streamlined now. And we worked with the patrol union. It's something that we kind of have a side agreement right now. Uh obviously, we have unlimited sick time, but there's

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parameters to that and we're very stringent on it. So, over the last year, we've moved to superanuate people if they would been hanging around because for for a while it was abused. They were out for long term. Right now, I can tell you it's a very short list and that we don't have exorbitant amount of

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long-term people and we have fitness for duties that are happening at a three-month mark once that they're they're >> I appreciate this and it's not it's not targeted to you. I'm just talking from an administrative standpoint. it I don't know why there there should be a liaison

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somebody that's responsible for that but overseeing it with either somebody from the law department or from HR because the amount of time like you folks I'm sure there are better things for you folks to be doing right so then you get into the legalities of things and and it's a human resource standpoint and and

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again like I said I know you got a a third party vendor that's coming in but you also need to stay on top of that and and just the paperwork the followup filing for uh you know um disability uh retirement, involuntary disability retirement if that's the route you need to go. I mean that that's all

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timeconuming. I mean I' I've seen the reports. I've had to sign off the reports. I mean some of those some of those reports are hundreds of pages for one individual, right? And and one individual can take you anywhere from, you know, 40 to 60 hours a week just to just to get a follow-up to make sure that they're going for medical

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examinations or following up with a physician or reading what the the physician is putting down. So, I don't I don't quite understand why you've got staff handling this stuff, but you know, we can talk about when the fire comes down. I just and I

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I don't know from from my standpoint from a from a financial standpoint, I think it should be captured in one location um and and the duties need to be in my opinion, not that I got any control or say of how it's handled should should really be re-evaluated. So, with that, I yield. >> Thank you, Councilman C2. Council

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Camaro. >> Thank you, Mr. President. Um, I forgot to ask a question about the hobby master and I know he's looking to hire more people. Does that have to be a police officer for that position? Is that something that >> because of we looked into this numerous times and most communities have moved to having it be falling under the law

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enforcement branch of their government because of the the police powers that come with it. >> I'm okay with that. I'm just curious because someone was asking me if it's a state law or is it not a state law? So when police So this is the product of the legislation that was pushed across the finish line for police reform and anything with police powers that is

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carrying a firearm. Uh there are certain communities that have animal control officers that carry firearms for the purposes of euthanasia for a disabled animal. Um depending on what they're using it for and what type of powers they have in ordinance, if there's police powers associated with it, you

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have to go through police certification. So in years past, harbor masters went to like a reserve police academy and then because we had police powers and and or it was a retired police officer. Here it's considered an active police position because they >> It was not.

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>> It it was so in the past it was kind of it was just kind of I guess you could say taboo. They didn't really talk about it like all right you went to a reserve police academy. >> Most of most of them were not police officers. The only time I can tell you that it always was a sore point for our agency because I was heavily involved in

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the accreditation process. So when you have a forward- facing person in a uniform that falls on your organizational chart that carries guns in a cuff, >> it looks like a cop, talks like a cop, it's a cop, it needs to go through police training, and that's why it became we were ahead of the curve when we were going in that route. Um, but

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yeah, a lot of communities are still scurrying to try to figure out that anomaly. So it's not a state law but most >> depending on if the ordinance gives that harbor master police powers. >> So it's locally that it's >> correct. >> Okay. >> Roland proof. >> Well that's cons.

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>> I just wanted to check on it cuz >> the people that he's hiring would be civilian. >> Correct. >> He's looking for like deck hands and for like dock hands and things like that collecting fees >> and those don't have to be police. >> Those don't have to be. No, but they wouldn't be able to write citations or anything like that. >> Getting back to the grant that we haven't taken advantage of. How big is

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that grant? How many police? So it's about $2.1 million. So you would divide that by how much the collective bargaining agreement is for that position. So the math right now is about 19 positions >> year yearly >> up for three years. So we're up in 2028

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is it? Yeah. 2028 is when that that would have been done. Um so we got the approval to to continue to use it even though we didn't get it in on the first year we had it. So only have two years left of that money. My intention is once we can start to use it, then I can I can argue a case that can you give us till

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30 to >> So how many people how many police officers will you be able to hire if to take advantage of that grant? Did you say 19? >> 19. Okay. >> And then we just have to find years from now when the grant runs out. >> Well, that's I think what Mr. Hugh's point is you can jump start, but then you got to be able to absorb it. Correct. >> I think our initial conversations have

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been that if you know once we get to that threshold, we're not going to just jump it in hire 18 or 19. We would we would start in a way that is sustainable and make sure that you know >> like you said we've been I mean we had a conversation a big sit down on this a year ago. >> Yeah. I mean to my >> gotten there so yeah so we we've been

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trying to plan but without it coming to fruition that plan just keeps needing to be adjusted. So we've kind of just stayed in communication and once we're able to move forward we'll we'll start taking it you know steps at a time and make sure that we're doing it in a sustainable way. think that's I want to say almost the number one priority, you

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know, for all of us at this point is that we're not hiring people just to lay them off. >> I agree. >> And to the point, Mr. Sakar, if you do quick math, I have six vacancies right now with five retirements pending in the next few months. So, I'm going to have 11 vacancies. So, that 13 hired in June is a drop in the bucket. >> Yeah, that's good.

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>> With that, I thank you. >> Thank you. And just for everybody's edification, 111F is the heart bill. So if a guy I'm not sure if a lot of people know what >> it's injured >> is it what did you say 111F >> that's the heart correct >> no injured on duty

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>> injured on duty >> separate >> it's 111F >> if if a police officer or a firefighter gets injured on duty it's called 111F >> if somebody who is not in public safety gets injured it's work is >> compared a lot of people don't know what that is apologize your executive >> role it's not a heart attack

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>> it's not a heart attack >> thank you um >> yes Anything further on police counselor in seat 7 council per >> I'm just a little confused. Um Miss Opki just gave a whole dissertation about what's going to happen when we get this grant. But I'd like to hear from uh Miss

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O'Neal. Has this been discussed? And is there a decision that they're going to hire less or hire more? Because depending on if you have people that are retiring, you could absorb more. >> I mean, I'm going to say with myself, I've not been very involved since March

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with this. I'm going to imagine that um the former chief and uh deputy chief war well acting chief warn excuse me and Emily have had those conversations but I mean it hasn't >> you haven't had any since I >> with that I yield. Thank you. >> Thank you. Hearing nothing further on police and harbor masters. No questions

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on the harbor masters because it's essentially in that department. Correct. All right. Thank you very much. Thank you for being here and thank you for your work, Chief. >> Uh next fire. Fire. Fire. begins on page 131. Your budget books. >> Thanks, Mr. Deloo. Nice to see you.

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>> Chief, introduce yourself for the record, please. >> Uh, Jeffrey Bacon, chief of fire. >> Barrett Castro, executive assistant to the chief. Council in C3 council. >> Thank you. Um first question is around overtime. Uh looks like we were around 2 million uh

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this year in overtime. I think that was driven up I think right after the first of the fiscal year I believe um when you added some staffing. Is that correct? >> Yeah. So after the Gabriel House fire um three three weeks into the fiscal year

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we increased our staffing by um three daily uh which drove that and it was all done with overtime. Still uh a lot of it is being absorbed by overtime. So that's why that's an outlier number. >> When we look down to where we are coming up for the next fiscal year, we're looking at about a million, which is

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still about $400,000 higher than what we were originally anticipating for last year. So I was just looking to uh get an understanding uh is that continued kind of residual from that. >> Do you do you remember when the governor came down and announced that they were giving us money?

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>> That was an early payment on the MPSS, the Massachusetts public safety and staffing grant that we receive every year. They gave that to us in um October and that that should have been for

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January 26 to December of 26. We spent it all before January one. >> So, we didn't get any extra money from the governor. >> No, >> it wasn't extra money. It was this year's money early. So, because of that, we needed to budget um significantly

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more overtime to cover for that grant that we've already expended. >> Okay. Uh moving over to expenses, preventive maintenance. Um the revised budget for FY26 is 7,000. Doesn't look like we've spent anything in this

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category. We are looking to increase that to 14,000 in this upcoming budget. And I just kind of preventive maintenance obviously sounds really good as a a good thing to do. >> If if you look at preventative maintenance and other professional services because I know that's the uh that's the other one that we that we're

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focusing in on. Those are both related to the Keltron system which um is the wire the Wi-Fi mesh system that connects commercial properties with what we call box alarms to our dispatch center. Um, and those two line items are to pay for

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an annual service contract to maintain the system and to pay for parts. So, um, what Emily did this year where she rolled them into based on what we've spent, you'll see that the other professional services isn't budgeted,

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but the preventative maintenance went up to 14,000. So, that's going to be$7,000 for the service contract. And based on what we've spent in the last few years on parts for those repairs, the 7,000 is what we were comfortable putting in there. And it neatly puts it all into

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one line item instead of seven having that that um other professional services. That's kind of like what is it? It's a catch-all. So, we eliminate that. >> Okay. Moving down to parts and accessories and the one under firefighting supplies. Um the parts and

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accessories up $50,000 from where we're spending this year and the firefighting supplies also up notably uh 30,000. Just looking for understanding on those increases. >> Absolutely. So parts and accessories is

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um for our trucks. Um I would anticipate actually we may need more than that this year, right? As our fleet ages um they become more expensive to repair. um >> five the engine. >> Yeah. And we we just found out that we have an engine that needs replacing on

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one of our apparatus. So, we know that that that's probably going to be more the 375 get gives us a little more cushion than what we had this year. Um and then the firefighting supplies is uh is equipment. We're looking at our um thermal imagers that we bring into fires

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to um to locate the fire, to locate victims. Um >> a drone. >> A drone? >> No, a thermal imager. So it's essentially the camera that just detects heat >> um heat differences. >> Um so those are aging and uh so we want

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to be able to purchase some new technology in that. That's why we increase that line. >> Okay. Uh dudes and memberships um was going up notably I think um when we look at the revised budget for fiscal 26 it was only

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$5,900 but we spent 20,000 this year. And we're also asking now 20 almost 26,000 >> PS tracks. >> That was a subscription that was in the dues and memberships line but should have been in the subscription line for a

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um PS tracks it's called. >> Okay. I think just generally I was looking to understand I think last year we had applied for a safer grant and were denied and I think we have uh five positions we're looking to fill in this

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year's budget and I just kind of wanted to understand you know was the city going to go again for the safer grant to try and get this you know get that program to absorb the cost and alleviate the burden on residents. >> Yeah. So, so last year we we applied for

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five positions through SAFER and um FEMA came and met with us um six months ago or so and explained to us that the reason we weren't selected for SAFER was because we only put in for five positions. So the uh the goal of safer is to increase your compliance on NFPA

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1710, which is your department's ability to assemble an effective firefighting force for different occupancy types in certain amounts of times. It creates benchmarks. So when we looked at it, when we applied for when when we hire

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five people, all that does is it gives me one person per shift and that will not increase that NFPA 1710. It does not give me it doesn't help me go from 17 to 25 on a fire scene, right? It gets me 17

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to 18. So it doesn't move that needle enough for FEMA to justify giving us the grant. Um and so in our discussion we had a meeting uh two weeks ago uh for this year's safer grant which is open now and really for me to be comfortable

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putting in for safer we would need to put in for 20 positions. That's the the number that I believe that we would need to to get that positive impact and to to be moved along the process and be awarded the grant. >> So similar what we just heard with the police department and their grant.

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>> Correct. Uh I don't know about their grant, but safer comes with a uh 2565 match and it locks you into that number for three years. Um and I genuinely am happy with the way things are going. We've added 15 positions. We've added

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three uh daily manpower positions in the last year. And I think we're doing it sustainably. And I think we're doing it responsibly. And I am leaning towards continuing that process. uh once we get staffed to 199, we'll be able to add one

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more to our daily manpower. And that's something that we can look down the line and say we can continue to be staffed at 199. The truth is for us, when you look back at the history of the Fall River Fire Department, we've hired vast number of firefighters on safer grants and when they've run out, we've been forced to

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lay people off. And I don't want to get into that. I got I've got six years left and I want to leave the department in a sustainable better position than when I found it. So, we haven't been at 200 since 200 since 2009. I'll probably beg to get to 200 sometime

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in the next year or two so that we can get to that. That's a a big benchmark for us. Um and I just am more comfortable moving in the direction this way rather than hiring 30 and then who knows what it looks like a year or two from now if we can sustain that. And to

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be clear, once we put some of those positions in, once we agreed to hire those um additional positions to increase its manpower, we can't apply for those positions to be covered with SAFER. They have to be new outside of what is in here now. So, it's not like we could get the grant to cover what we

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have already agreed to. Um so, that's one of the other I'm going to say problems with, you know, applying for the grant now. >> Okay. Thank you. I yield. >> Council seed a council repos. >> Thank you, Mr. President. >> Hi, Chief. How are you? >> I'm doing well. How are you? >> Good, thank you, sir.

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>> So, talking about staffing, uh, FY26, the book had 187.5. You're now at 204.5, >> correct? >> Um, but with in the book indicates five vacancies. Is that still accurate as of today? >> Yes. So, we're at 194 right now, sworn

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firefighters, including me. uh will be at 199 will be sworn firefighters including me and the other positions are um clerk and the maintenance shop. >> Okay. And how many do you have out on um workman's compility >> IOD?

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>> Yeah. >> Uh we have four right now on IOD. >> Four. >> Okay. >> Um what is your plan? I think you mentioned that we have some firefighters coming down the road here. When when is that happening? So, we have nine that are more than halfway through the

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academy that we're running at our headquarters. They're going to hit the company. Their graduation is July 2nd at Derby High School. Um, and they will hit the company fourth of July week. They'll be in the they'll be in the company for

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our highest vacation months and then we're going to pull them back out in the fall to train them to EMT. So they will be they'll they'll impact us and then the goal is the five that we need to hire. We'll do EMT with these nine in the fall and then start the fire academy immediately after.

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>> Okay. And then immediately after this class, is there another plans for more coming down the road? >> I want to be in a constant state of hiring between three and five. Um we the the city's been great with allowing us to hire based on anticipated retirements. So if we can project that we have three um retiring in January, we

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can start the hiring process for those three so that hopefully we can get them in the company within a month or two of that impact of that retirement impact. >> Okay. Um can you clarify and just more from my understanding the whole the whole column of what is total additional

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pay that that whole column equates to 1.3 million. Can you clarify what exactly that what does that include? >> So that's sworn firefighters holiday pay. >> Okay. as um along with the three shop mechanics um uniform pay. So if you look

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at the page last page of the salaries, >> it's page 137. >> 137. There you go. Um you'll see that 900 900 900 900. Yeah, that's the shop uniform. Everything above that is the fire sworn fire holiday

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>> and and everyone gets that and it's generally does it just increase based on seniority? >> It's based on their rate of pay. >> Rate it's based on rate of pay. Okay, cool. All right. And actually that's all I got. Thanks chief. How you

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>> thank you conser 6 council Pekkham. >> Good evening gentlemen. >> Good evening. >> Employee buyouts 550. What do you got for retirements coming up? We have seven anticipated retirements between now and January 1st.

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Okay. And we got five vacancies, correct? Now, VA, vacation buyback and employee buyout. So, is the vacation buyback where if you don't use if you have five weeks, you don't use one, you carry it over to the next. >> Yeah. So we we uh we actually narrowed

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the scope on that a little more to make it during our busiest season, the summer season. So if you have a vacation in June, July, August, and the beginning of September, and you would prefer to sell it back, uh then you work that week and we pay you your straight pay. It saves us the the half that we would pay in the

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overtime, the time and a half. >> Okay. Um just my last question, fireboat maintenance. >> Oh, do we have a dry dock for that yet? The fire boat. the fire. Oh, a dry dock for it to sit at >> during the winter. >> Oh, during the winter it's it's actually works out great. So, it's at Okonnell's

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boatyard. We pay them for storage. They keep it on the sling. Um, so if we do need it, it's not ideal where they can just drop it in the water, but it can go in the water relatively quickly. >> Okay. Um, this is for the in term city administrator. I know we've had

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conversations about um 79 with the fire possibly putting a fire station with a tiff or a tie. I'd like that to be included there so we could just have our own and take the boat out of the water in the winter and it's just more it's convenience. You get there you don't have to go to Somerset to get your boat or whatever the case may be. So if you

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can in the future have that discussion I' I'd appreciate it. With that I yield. Thank you. >> Thank you. Anything further cons where's that boat docked all summer long? Isn't it docked in the >> It's docked at the the boat house at Herage State Park where they do the sailing classes.

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>> Right. So I'm I don't understand >> he's asking about winter storage. >> Oh >> yeah. >> Okay. Sorry. I apologize. Without a yield. >> Thank you. Anything further? Constant C4. Council vice president. >> Good evening. How are you? >> I'm doing well. How are you?

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>> Sorry. I'm well, thank you. Um preferred personal days. It's up 100,000. What are preferred personal days? >> So, uh by CBA, each member is guaranteed one day off a year. one personal day that they can use regardless of manpower levels. Their other personal days are

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all dependent upon manpower levels. So you can put in for on July one, you can put in for December 17th off and you're guaranteed to get it. Um so we budget that as if everybody on the department puts in for it. >> Okay. So traditionally not everybody

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does. Is that what you're saying? >> Correct. And then it allows us the flexibility towards the end of the year to move those to either offer extra preferred personal days to people that might want to take them to get unfunded liability off the book or to move it towards overtime that we're already over on.

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>> Okay. So that's why Yeah. So you always budget higher and then it looks like the projected and the actual always comes in substantially lower. >> Yep. It always gets spent though. I promise you that. Now, if I'm looking at this correctly, so there's 204 and a half employees in

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the in the fire department. >> You have one administrative assistant, >> one clerk. I have my executive assistant and I have a clerk. Yeah. >> Okay. Um, and what are their duties? >> The clerk. You want to uh explain

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Barrett oversees? She does all the AR AP um helps with the 111F, helps with the IOD claim, sends them to Guardian and um files does all that type of clerical office work. >> So, anything that would be expected of a uh administrative clerk or

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administrative assistant? I guess the I'm only asking that question because we had a bit of a conversation last night about an administrative assistant who gets $13,000 above and beyond for we haven't figured out what yet. So this is a demonstration of

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your your job is your job to >> she was originally classified as a 12va head administrative clerk and when they did the reclass that's when she became the administrative assistant they changed the title >> but the same duties >> and she receives one salary and uh it's

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all encompassing >> correct >> thank you that I yield >> thank you councel C2 council >> yeah if I may through the chair my colleague in 66 I don't understand the reasoning. Maybe I missed it about why the boat should be docked not in the forever storage facility.

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>> Conser 6. Can you not where >> in forever >> in I think you went want to move the storage of dock for the >> No, I thought that where did you say the boat was stored? >> Okonnell's Oh, my apologies. I misunderstood where he said >> Okonnell's boatyard. >> Oh, >> in for River. >> Yeah. >> On a sling. So if they need something,

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they can put it in the water right away. I just So I thought you asking to have it stored in Somerset. >> Listen, I misunderstood where he said that the boat was stored. I understand. Okay. With that, I will take as well. Anything anything further for fire hearing? None. Thank you very much, Chief.

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>> Thank you. >> Last but not least, EMS, Emergency Management Agency. >> That's going to be on page 143. Uh 143. I just don't know. >> I'm going do it in a second. I'm sorry.

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This is emergency. Uh, hold on one second. Getting this confused. One second, please. >> EMA. >> EMA. EMA. EMA. >> Come back. >> Yeah. EMA. Just Mr. Agar coming. Does anybody have any questions for Mr. Aar EMA? >> I actually don't. I would. No questions for EMA.

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>> Very good. Thank you. He does a great job, >> Chief. Sorry about that. >> They mean it this time. >> All right. >> Councelor in seat 8. Councelor Reposo. Chief, just introduce yourself for the record, please.

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>> Chief Watts, Chief of Emergency Medical Services. Hey Chief, how are you? >> Good evening, sir. >> So, uh, last year's budget 106 FTEES, you're up to 110, though your salaries projected are lower

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than last year. Overtime is up from last year. So, just give me a general sense of where things stand in EMS as far as staffing is concerned. So, the FTEES, um, we brought on another, um, building clerk. Um, we

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brought on a, um, fire mechanic and we put in two float positions to help, uh, defer some of the overtime. >> Um, you saw the salaries go down and that's part of the FLSA.

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Um, the FLSA is if they work 24 hours in a week, they get paid for 24. So, it fluctuates. Some of their hours are paid at straight time and some of them are paid at overtime if they go over the 40 according to the law. >> So there are two overtime lines. I do want to point that out. There's an

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overtime so it says salaries and wages, overtime and then if you look further down under the non-employee specific pay there is another overtime line. So um we are working to essentially we're going to call it scheduled overtime. So when their

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regular schedule of the 24 and 48s um require it to be overtime, we're going to try and delineate those those. So it does reduce the base pay obviously because sometimes they're getting you know rather than an equal spread of hours. So that is the difference we were um we're trying to make it more clear.

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So but those amounts are also put into their base wages on the um backup sheets that show the detail. It is part of their base salary because we do know what they're scheduled and we know what their rate of pay is. So it is included in that um in that way way the way other

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overtime typically is not obviously detailed out by employee. >> Okay. Um same thing I asked fire. I'll ask you as far as the total additional pay for the positions. Is that the same situation like fire?

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>> Um so it's yeah it's on the list. It's the holiday pay the uniform allowance and then the on call stance. So it's all the same thing there. Yeah. Okay. um to the MIH reimbursement line.

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Let me just find where I have that. There we go. Uh page 144. >> So MIH reimbursement >> proposed budget is 450,000. >> PMIH reimbursement is the home visit program that we have. >> Um we just entered into an agreement um

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to for someone to reimburse us for providing those services because There is no insurance mechanism for those reimbursements. >> That 450,000 makes that MIH division at zero cost to the city.

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>> Excellent. >> And on the rental and leases line item, um it's obviously a little bit up, but I guess my general question is within that line item is the building. Correct. >> Correct.

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>> Okay. Is there where do we stand with that? Is there is there >> So the last um discussion I had with the mayor that um we have to um because there's 366 days and it falls in the middle. So

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we're going to make the payment for this this current year and then enter into the um purchase agreement for um for so it won't be included in the 28 budget. >> Okay. >> The rentals and leases won't be included in the 28 budget is what she's saying. >> Yeah. No, I I understand that. And then

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as far as the funding to buy the building is coming from, >> it would come out of our um budget. However, >> it would probably be paid with that depending on what the purchase price is and what the amount of I'm going to say savings that exists in EMS at that point

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in time. So, it's not a finalized plan. We obviously need to take steps forward to um kind of go out to for an RFP to buy a building. Um and then once we get a purchase price back, we would come down to you with a plan to fund it.

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>> Okay. Uh Emily, on the indirect charges on page 146, um it looks like the the massive change there is the retirement contributions. Can you speak to that? >> So um I think we talked a lot last year um between water and sewer and EMS with just kind of getting back to the

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indirect calculation way um because it was the first year I' kind of worked with what was there and and some of those small increases. But um this year we did move back to that calculation format. And so from the time that um the positions were last done in EMS, there's been a big increase in the employees

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added um between FY24 to now. So we're finally kind of making up that increase. I think in FY24 um you were below 80. Is that correct? How many employees you had back in 2014? >> Yeah, we were at 84. >> Yeah. So it was about 84. So I mean

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there's been a huge increase obviously employees. So it it's going to reflect in there finally. >> Okay. Chief, do you have any current vacancies in your department? >> Um I have one vacancy right now >> which is >> um a paramedic on the front line. We have been advertising and we're

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interviewing for that position currently. >> Okay. And any any uh current positions that are on leave, medical or anything of that sort? >> I actually have uh I've actually had a um a year that's been kind of uh difficult in some sense. I have two

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long-term um IOD. Um I've had a couple of short-term out IOD and um I've had three or form attorney leaves this year. Um we handle our as um

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council Kadeim said we handle it pretty um diligently with guardian claims. Once we hit the um 8week mark, we you know get them into a workharding program and we try to get them back to work. I have one that's uh in for sup superanuation

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right now. I'm waiting for them to get on to the retirement board agenda. >> So um we try to handle them consistently and you know as reasonably as we can. >> I appreciate it. I yield. Thank you. >> Counselor in C3. Councel Canuel.

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>> Thank you. I know we don't rely heavily on program revenue, but when I looked at the EMT school and the EMC, sorry, EMS vaccine program, um, we're estimating $75,000 in each of those line items in terms of

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revenue. When we look at the actuals in 25, they've actually fallen uh into 26 compared to where we were, and we're still trying to hit that target. So, I just it looks like we're falling short of that number. Uh is there a plan to get there or do we think we need might need to scale back?

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>> If you look at the expense to the um to the revenue at the end it'll equal out. We found that um this year um we that less people took the COVID vaccine but we um when we go out to purchase it, we do it through the contract. So we get

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reimbured for some of those vaccines. We do get a vaccine payment late in the year like in the middle to end of June. So, we should receive one more payment towards that vaccine line. The EMT school, we had um planned on trying to um increase our school to an advanced

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program. We still want to try to do that, but as you see that the um EMT school, the expense line versus what we're bringing in is equal. Um we do have all of the firefighters go through our EMT school. They pay for the books,

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but they don't pay the tuition. So that may look like it offsets some of that cost. >> Okay. There's a new on the expenses. There's a new item $5,000 for lab processing this year. >> That's for the NIH program that's

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included in that total reimbursement. >> Okay. And then u my colleague at Cday asked about the rentals leases. My final question just around the data processing just to understand what's contained within that. And then just we had a budget of 55,000 for this year. were

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94,000 over on that. Um, >> so what I did was, um, a lot of the programs I went through and I itemized them out. I don't know if um, the detailed line I think we were where we were paying things were not necessarily

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all consistently in the same spot. Um, we actually have uh, a data processing program that's new to us for our education. We have a scheduling program. We actually um have increased some of our data processing. So what I did was

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some of it was initiated initial cost that we incurred and it'll go it is actually you'll see it's more condensed this year. I I actually brought the line item back now. >> That's all I have. Thank you. >> Thank you. Thank you councelor. In seat six council Pekham.

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>> Good evening. >> I'm going to go back to your mah reimbursement. Um it's it's a big jump. It's from 57057 to 4 450. >> So we just entered into that contract in January. So we've only received two payments towards that. We are owed to.

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So we will at the end of this fiscal year by June 30th we've notified um the person we entered into the contract with that June 30th was the closing of our fiscal year. So we're that'll be at like 200,000 by the end of the fiscal year. We're just waiting for the payment. >> So it'll be about 200,000 at FY26.

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>> Correct. It's about a 9,000 and change payment per month. >> Okay. So, Miss Sorry, >> if it's I'm just for simple questions in FY26 if we're expecting 200. Why is it 450

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for 27? >> Because it was only 200 was for halfway through the year. So, it'll be a full year next year. >> Yeah. We only signed the contract in January, so you're only going to see half year. >> All right. Um, are you comfortable with 450 because makes a difference? >> That's the agreement. So 450,000 is the

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contracted price and um, we are due in January, we have the opportunity to renegotiate that contract. So if we find that um, we're not our expenses are exceeding what we anticipated them to exceed, then we can go back to the and renegotiate

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that contract for a higher figure. 450 is the contract. We will receive that. That's a guaranteed reimbursement. >> Okay. >> But we can go back in January and renegotiate for a higher cost if we feel that we've undercut oursel. It's the first contract. >> Okay. Thank you. The PCG reimbursement.

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>> PCG reimbursement is u Mass Health. Mass Health pays us $275 for an ambulance trip plus $7 a mile. At the end of the year, um, when the state has money left in the kitty, what they do is they divide that up by a

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calculation of expenses versus like it's almost like a grant application. At the end of the year, they give us a reimbursement. It's anywhere from um 1.2 to sometimes 2.3 to$2.4 million. >> Okay? Because for FY26, it's at one and a half and then you have projected one

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nine 1.9 million. I think last year we received um >> 1.8 >> 1.8. >> Okay. Miss Opy, is there a way to get a breakdown of where this reimbursement like as we get it where it's >> we don't we get it once at the end of the year. We don't get anything until

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it's a one time one lump sum payment. So, um it's an unfortunate time. I mean, we get it before fiscal year close technically speaking, but we won't have that receipt until if we're lucky July 1. and I can tell you exactly what the amount is. >> So, um the other thing too is that the

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reimbursement was 2.3 or 2.4 I think last year. And what we do is we pay the fire department a fee for service out of that for um the run volume. So that comes out of that before it's even that's not um in this figure that you see in our revenues.

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>> Okay. >> And that line is in the general fund as a receipt. I can give you the page if you want it. All right. With that, I yield. Thank you, >> Harry. Nothing further. Councilman C4, Council Vice President Dion. >> Yeah. Um, just two questions. Um, in

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terms of on page 146, uh, in terms of the health insurance and the retirement contributions, health insurance, uh, is up half a million dollars. Retirement contributions is just about doubled from 1.1 one. Yeah.

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1.146 to 2.202. What's driving that? Is it the the additional employees? >> Excuse me. >> The additional employees is a big part of it. The biggest part of it is what I'll say. >> So, how many employees have been taken on to drive that? >> So, um I and when

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>> Yeah, I think we had talked about this. It was one of the first questions that was asked that we were talking about it. So, um the numbers we kind of got back to the indirect cost calculation format that um the document that I had found from several years ago um that had been used here. It was one that um we used

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the same form. I think Mary had shared it between New Bedford and Fall River. So I was kind of getting back to that. So last year there wasn't a big adjustment when there was a significant number of employees between FY24 to now they've added on almost 35 employees I believe the number is. So and we hadn't

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adjusted those rates. Um you can see between 25 and 26. And if you even look back at 24 that indirect amount had gone up you know nominal less than 100,000 when we've added on um over 35 employees. So part of that is from the employee increase and then obviously

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we've talked about the healthcare increases each year. So the other part of it is the healthcare cost increase with it but the bigger part is the number of employees that have been added on. I have a full calculation sheet we can share this with you that breaks down exactly how it's all calculated but there is a very I'm going to say formal

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calculation process for it. >> Yeah I I would appreciate getting that. Um, so my mind is still trying to process what you said because you like went zoom. >> Sorry. >> No, that's okay. It's okay. But I'm just still So in what year? So you took on 35

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additional staff members, we'll call them. >> Over two fiscal years. >> Over two fiscal years. In the first fiscal year, >> I think it's been it's been like a a dribble, right? It's it's kind we haven't done like a a mass hiring, but it's been over the year. We've gone from

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about 84 like 90 employees I think to now we're at 110. >> Correct. But and that started in what fiscal year? >> Just just after co >> Yeah. So I thought in FY24 the budgeted number was 84 >> maybe. >> Yeah. And then so by now now we're up to

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110. So right now has >> So I guess my what I'm hearing and I could be wrong is we made no adjustments for it until two fiscal years later. No, there was like a $200,000 increase I think each year, but it didn't cover what they

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>> It was going up by um so every year our assessment goes up I think it's 7% for pensions. So we had been increasing that number by the 7%. But also the part of that retirement is based on the number of employees. So we hadn't quite adjusted for the number of employees. We

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had only adjusted the base number by the base increase rather than factoring in the fact that we have more employees. So we should have been here before we add on that that small factor increase >> right% should have been on top on the on the high number not the low number and then >> correct. So we kind of try to readjust

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to get back on to where the base employees are and then you could now moving forward you should be able to in theory say obviously if the employee count I'm going to say stays relatively the same you should now be able to increase the health insurance by the health insurance costs increase each year but we just weren't there. We

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hadn't fully factored in the change of employees that had taken place, >> right? Because the 8 8.4% increase in health insurance should be on the totality for FY27. >> Correct.

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>> All right. With that, I yield. Thank you. >> Thank you. The last councelor to speak is councelor Pereira. She just stepped out. Councelor, here she is. >> Councelor in seat 7. Councelor Pereira. The only thing I'd like to add is that

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um last week we went to the legislative brunch that they had at Brown, the old St. Ans, and uh the mayor and I were there, a couple of the state reps, and they spoke very well of your program. >> Thank you.

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>> And what a difference it has made um to the hospital so that people don't have to stay in the hospital, they can return home. You do wound care and that. Um but it was spoken to everyone how satisfied they were. So I wanted to share that

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compliment with you. >> Thank you. >> I don't have any questions with that. >> You work really hard. >> I yield. >> Thank you counselor. Is there anything further? Is there a motion? >> Motion table. >> Motion of table has been made by councelor Raposo. Seconded by councelor Hart. All those in favor? >> Opposed. The eyes have it. Tomorrow we

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will be here uh for insurance and other and then we have a full council meeting scheduled for the council to act on the municipal budget. Madam clerk? >> Yes. >> Confirming that for me? Yep. Very good. 6:00. Uh and the council will then be able to do what it needs to do. >> Motion to >> motion to adjourn. Finance has been made

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by councelor Raposo. Second by councel Pekkham. All those in favor. The eyes have it. Good night.