this um April 8th, 2026 um policy subcommittee meeting to order. Roll call. >> Mr. D >> here. >> Mr. Riley >> here. >> Miss Stewart >> here. >> So to the flag. >> Pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the
republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Pursuant to the open meeting law, any person may make an audio or video recording of this public meeting or may
transmit the meeting through any medium. Attendees are therefore advised that such recordings or transmissions are being made whether perceived or unpersceived by those present and are deemed acknowledged and permissible. citizens input. Um was told before the
meeting we do not have any written input and I do not see anyone here in the audience as a citizen. So moving on to item three discussion 3-1 an update on the policy manual and the next steps um
before the meeting um and I shared it with the administration. I hope I shared it with the subcommittee as well. Um, I know we had some conversation around the policy manual and getting that fully updated on the website. It come to my
attention that MASC actually offers um a service where they put your updated policies together um and they put it on their website which could somehow we can have a conversation with it. We can just
transmit that and transmit that on our website. something that we could consider. >> I thought we just sent them a link and they linked yours to the to theirs. >> Yeah. So, um, in my former district, we had it's almost like a professional development. They come and they work
with you. Yeah. >> And they show you the new MGL laws and they show you the new policies and then they help you go through it and they will update with you and you can work back and forth with them. >> I did actually with Jim Hardy. Um they come in, he comes in and then we he
they'll send you the updated MGL and then we take it and we look it over and then you send it back and then they go back and forth >> and they help with the IT. >> No. So that that's an okay. >> So our but I think our IT folks are working on on making this a little bit better accessible. I don't know if
you've had a chance to even look at this page on our website. So when you go to our website, you see a bunch of individual policies, but like the third or fourth one down is policy manual. and then you click on that and it's another 300 pages of so our website is not organized in a fashion that makes it
easy to use. Um but if you go to the that MASC site that you shared you can see how other districts like when you click on it you see the section section A and then you can click on each section and find a policy. You don't have to scroll in the middle of working on that right now. >> Yes.
>> Yes. So it is working on that but >> they don't MC won't do that part for you. does help you realize if um >> yeah I think maybe um in near future we can get an update on that and then um I guess in just in general terms of next steps we do have some policies most of
them were um referred out through the full committee um before you arrived um deputy superintendent and um so I'm not sure if you had a chance to kind of get the the gist or the backup of what's
going on here. Um, I guess this is worth just having a brief conversation on maybe some of your vision on how you'd like to um proceed going forward after this meeting. >> If I may before you jump in, please. >> Um, one of the things that I had talked
to Deb about just to help organize the policy subcommittee is >> you don't need to look at every policy every year. So, some of these though haven't been looked at in in a long time. So a suggestion was to put them all on a spreadsheet organized by date
so that you then break them up over five years. So let's say there are hundred policies. We break them up by five years and we start with the oldest ones first that haven't been looked at since whenever. But then we've chunked out for the year and then when you get through the first cycle of five years now you've
looked at all of them. Now they're on a regular updated cycle. So the first chunk of time takes a while to get through it. So, we'll be looking. I noticed some of these are like 2010, 2008. We haven't looked at them in a long time. So, that's just a way that I
found easy to organize. Of course, I say that once Deb puts them all in a spreadsheet, but once they're all in some kind of a spreadsheet by date, then then that makes it easy for us to chunk it out into >> and pick the ones that >> Yeah. So, if there's a hundred of them, we take 20 of them to do year one. If we
get ahead of schedule, we can do more. You can do a few more, but typically there's enough in this pile. And some of them, to be honest with you, are things we could get rid of. Like as I look through the manual, some of it's just the law. You don't have to reiterate the law and policy. And quite frankly, I
think the more you can streamline policy for parents, the easier it is for them to find things and for things to be transparent. When you put 200 policies on a page, quite frankly, that's not transparency. Because now parents are hunting and pecking for what they're looking like looking for versus here are
the important policies that aren't repeated somewhere else in law or whatever that they can just Google but there are specific to Fall River and they need to know to be in the know. So, I think that's something when we go through them. I mean, I'm just ending finally a five-year cycle in my
district. And what I found is we were able to reduce quite a few policies down because some of them were just literally this is the law on something. And I noticed some of ours are similar. So, I do think that we can organize our policies in a way that are is accessible
for parents and once the website gets updated that are easy to access and find. But that's just a suggestion for how to break them up because I feel like right now we're kind of like throwing darts at some and just picking them here and there and and there might be one something might happen in the world
legislatively cell phone policy something that we might have to say okay we got to take this one out of order we have to look at it today >> that never came before policy subcommittee by the way but >> but something like that um would we would give you an example our timeout uh
policies that are going to need to be updated because of the regulations that are coming down. >> So, we would pull those out of the cycle and look at those immediately. So, you don't have to like, oh, all we're going to do is what's on the list. If something comes up that has to be done, the superintendent, the team would bring
it to us and say, we've got to look at these. Something's going on right now we have to address. So, I just throw that out there as a way to organize ourselves, not for any other reason. >> All right. No, I I fully agree with that. Um >> and to comment, we do have a spreadsheet started
>> um by date. Some of them I'm looking at are like 06, right? So, um we just have not carved out all the ones from that large policy manual, which is 419 pages. >> That's what I'm saying. Nobody's going to hunt through 419 pages. >> Those we'll have to carve out, but we can we'll continue.
>> My my one question, when we're creating the the spreadsheet, are we going off the policy manual on the website? Um, so there are policies that are not in the manual and then the ones in the manual as well. >> You know how there are some outside >> that that both basically. I feel like we
obviously have to capture both >> and they all should be in the manual of course. I'm sure we're going to work towards that. >> But I know you know to the point around you click on the manual and it brings you to a 420 page document >> not you can't even like you have to scroll to find everything. Madam
superintendent, you have anything you like to >> I would just I think exactly what Anna did um in her in her district as she's doing it now. We I did the same thing. You you go in, you look at the new policies, you look at the law. Allow your your school committees
association to do some of the ground work for you and allow you do the like the grunt work because we're not the only school district. We're what you know we're one of 250, you know, in in the Commonwealth. And so if we work with other school districts, you're going to see, you know, um that the law, you
know, oversee, you know, guides how we do it and and whatever. And I I think what uh Anna just said about what pertains to Fall River is what what our parents >> and what our community will go to first, like what you know, what is a Fall River
>> addendum or agenda item that I want to know about? Can I do this? Can I not do this? How does this work in our school district? That's really all I would I would put in. >> The only thing I just um wish and and I fully agree it's using >> the issue and I don't believe we'll have
the issue with with with this committee. The issue in the past with using the MASC committees in the past would just take the template language, adopt the template language without customizing anything. Sometimes it would just be taking the actual draft language
>> and just placing it as policy. But if we're bringing in like the draft language and tweaking it to the best way and >> um help um parents and and children help us move forward. I think that's what we need to do. So >> guys, I would just say that it's like
everything else that we do in school districts and we're very excited when we start and then when you get to page 299, everybody's like and so many and and I think to to what Anna just said, let's stick with the important issues. Let's
get the important policies up in front so that parents understand. I think that's what we do a lot, you know, and that's what, you know, we want to be friendly enough where people can just look at our policies and >> Oh, yeah. I get it now. >> All right. Very good. Um, so just to
just to wrap this up, we can just maybe just get an update as to um where we are with the spreadsheet and then that will help um in the next um next meeting in May where we'll go from there and take it from there. All right. Very good. Moving on to item 3-2,
discussion, vote to refer the school committee powers of duties policy and review and refer recommended changes to the job description. So with this item here and we I believe this is an item that we tabled from the last meeting. I
don't believe we referred this one. We discussed two items. We asked the former administration at the time to um reach out to MASC to just get some language around what we can look at with personnel. At the time, there was just
some discussion around um if we're evaluating the superintendent and using decisions that the superintendent makes an evaluation purpose, um what what would the committee have perview to? So, we just want to get some MASD guidance
around that. Uh, Mr. Reposa, do you know if um this if it was >> I'm not sure if we've gotten that yet. I don't think so. >> So, if um we can maybe just just um just look into that. I think um but
>> looks like it was 2022. I don't know that much has changed, but as anam as an example, Liz, if you look down the bottom, they didn't even remove the note that literally is like you're supposed to take that off. when when you copy it cuz this says if you're a regional don't forget to add blah blah blah. Well, we
don't need that in that. So, this was clearly like a copy paste >> which is fine because I I'm guessing 2022 I don't think the law has changed much and what our duties and powers are. So, I'm guessing MASC is going to say it's the same but when we redo it if we could >> just edit it
>> get rid of that note there. And I'll just say something else Deb and I'm sorry I always feel like everything I recommend is just going to make more Deb work. So, we have to find a way to take some Deb work off Deb, so Deb can do some of this Deb work. But, as we review these, can you put them into the same format,
>> same type and font and titling look the same because they all look >> Yep. Um and just so the committee knows like so the first page is what we actually have like that one that you have through um not that one the other one like
>> this >> that that's currently what we have like in uh board docs which is actually going to be switched over to Diligent. We're working on uh working with Diligent to get that set up in Diligent. That other page that's a word document. This one here.
>> I'm sorry. Which one's the one that looks like >> that is? So, right now they all look like this in Boardocks. >> But when we >> with this whole weird thing here, >> that's in Boardocks. Yeah. But where this here is a is right off MASC. So, I
just put both so we could compare. That's a word document >> and that way if there was any changes or anything that needed to be um made, we could just make it on that. But formatting would be one of the things that we're trying to get consistent >> in diligent.
>> Yes. >> Yes. >> Okay. Good. That's better than you having to do it. It can format right in diligent. That will save a lot of >> Yeah. Because they the first thing that they asked is that we downloaded all our policies in Word. So that way if we had to >> so that when we adopt something new,
they just pull it out and put a new one in. >> Perfect. >> Y question for the committee. Um in terms I I know that was one um topic we were discussing like the MA the the the guidance on the personnel.
Second for clarification sake we oversee a superintendent. We also oversee um a an at school committee attorney. We also have an administrative assistant. Adding that into the policy if you ask me as one member would just make sense for
clarification sake. Um what's the committee think on that? >> So in here it states administrative assistant. Um so what is the recommended addition? >> Where does it say administrative >> right >> on this one? >> It says it right there. Administrative
assistant that second paragraph >> right. It says it shall not report directly to the school committee. >> I believe it should if one under personnel matters >> BBA. This is not
>> I'm looking at this one right here. >> I know. I don't have the for some reason. >> I have that same one that Liz has. >> Oh, yeah. Same language. Same language. >> What do you want? >> Because I have it. >> I think all these positions to report to
the school committ. >> Yeah. >> Ministry of assistance for school committee service. recommending that same >> they report to the school committ >> they report to school committee >> who does >> the administrative assistant >> not >> and the attorney
>> directly to the school commission >> yes that's what I would have >> special education administrator school physicians school nurses supervisor of attendance >> yeah so this copy from MASC does not include administrative >> stuff ours did I believe here
>> yes Yeah, >> but her contract does not say that she >> does to us >> in the job description it has to the superintendent. >> Right. So that's what I think needs to come out of this. I think we need to
follow how what MASC has which doesn't include that because typically the assistant to the school committee reports to the school committee. So that that needs to be struck from this fall river policy. And um I know it's a separate policy
which we'll be discussing next. Um the school committee attorney should that be mentioned in here specifically? >> No, because these are only positions that that don't report to us other than the superintendent. These are pos in this one in this BBA. These are all positions that we appoint upon the
recommendation of the superintendent. So the superintendent says to us, um this is the school business administrator that I'd like to hire. We have to reasonably approve whatever the superintendent recommends. Unless as a committee we say, "Oh, no, that person
we, you know, we got a reference check from another school committee, blah, blah, blah. Can you please take that back?" We still don't get to pick who it is. The superintendent chooses who that person is. They make a recommendation. We approve or disprove their the recommendation, but they report and they
are chosen by the superintendent. That's different. Why it's not in here and why it's not in the MASC one is because typically the school committee secretary reports directly to the school committee as does the school committee attorney report directly to the school committee. That's why those aren't in here. These are only positions that
report directly to the superintendent. So that's why at some point somebody added administrative assistant. So that's when Deb came on because before prior I prior to me being hired >> um it was and then I guess it was the
job it was part of the job description it was changed that um the um superintendent of schools would be doing the evaluation and everything else. >> That's what it says in the in consultation with the school committee. >> I think just with the job description that's something we should look at at
the full committee level. Um, one before I think I understand where the subcommittee wants to go with this one question on the school nurse position and I don't need an answer right now, but um, ESY, it's the school year. If there's um, a nursing position that opens up in the summer, is that a
separate position? Nursing position, >> those are usually just temporary out of the jobs. You don't hire someone like who's also your ESY person like works year round, right? You hire for ESY. >> We hire them. They're part of our ESY hiring. That could be anybody. It doesn't even have Sometimes the nurses
in your district don't want to work ES and you have to just hire someone for ESY. >> Yeah. Our nurses typically do apply and again that's good. >> You know Yeah. So an ESY nurse position that wouldn't be something we would approve separately as a committee. >> No. Okay.
>> Yeah. No, those are part-time temporary jobs. That's not >> So >> this is even a I always thought this was a weird piece of the law that school committees would approve school nurses. They should I think they should update, >> but it's the law. So
>> So um I'll entertain a motion to refer um this um policy to the full committee with the change that we strike out. >> I think it just Why don't you say match the MASC one? That's the only difference. >> Matches the MASC policies. Can I also add that we review I don't because I
don't think we should do it here. We should do it at the full committee that we review the job description in the contract. >> Well, is the contract up? Like we're not going to review it mid-contract. When is the end of your contract there? Do you know? I'm sorry. You're in the room. That's what we're asking you. Do you know when your end date is?
>> Well, I mean, by contract expired last year, so >> Oh, excellent. So, yeah, we should probably put that on an agenda to look at. Well, thank you for showing up to work today. >> Appreciate you. >> Yeah. When you when we redo this one,
can you take this note off here, please? Thank you. So, I'm referred to the full committee um that matches MASC policy and we also review the um administrative assistant the job description and the contract. >> Do we need to look at the job? Are you worried about something?
>> No, it's just I think that's part of it. >> It says job description. I got you. Okay. So, we got >> I just want to change that for the most part. >> Motion still made. Is there a second? >> Second. >> Okay. All those in favor say I. I. All
those opposed. Motion passes. Okay. 3-3 is a discussion and a vote to refer school committee policy BG and all legal contracts entanglements with attorneys of law to review and
refer recommended changes to relevant job descriptions. So pull my backup for this here. Just few things I just want to point out in this policy. So I think the wording itself should be revamped. The sol city
solicitator is corporation council and we have an attorney to the school committee. So the wording around there is something we should look at. Um there's language in here which states that um the school committee the
attorney shall report to all meetings upon request. Is that regular meetings? Is that subcommittee meetings? I requested attorney Assad to be here just to back up his um legal opinions that he gave us today. Um
I'm not sure I don't believe he was able to make it. However, I think that's something just to point out there. Um, and there's policy also states that legal advice on behalf of the school system will be made
by the committee. I don't think that's something that we even we even do. I mean, most legal advice we receive isn't by a vote of the committee currently. So, either we have to talk about enforcement. >> Which one are you talking about? >> The one, two, three, fourth paragraph.
decision. >> The new policy here says many types of legal assistance are routine and do not require specific committee. >> That's the last paragraph on this one. >> So, they're a little um they kind of >> contradict >> contradict each other a bit. Um and then
there's a discussion what it what amounts to routine legal services. Um before we get into that, I I think we all know that um outside legal, there's um a lot of different departments that use outside legal for different reasons
um and for many valid purposes as well. I I did invite as chair of the subcommittee all the departments that are um that use outside legal to explain their procedures so the subcommittee could be informed and um Miss Ouchain um was took the step accepted the
invitation was here today just to explain um how um her department uses outside legal. So typically um the special education department uses um attorney Joyce's office for student
specific um situations related to IEP process procedures fate all those you know um regulations. The protocol within my department is that the anyone at a school level
does not call the attorneys without consultation from a supervisor and the supervisor informs me. Most of the time the communication is either myself or Mr. Sullivan, our chief compliance
officer with a supervisor or if it's not directly at the same time with the supervisor, we are always kept in the loop. So there aren't situations that come up with students related to special education that I am not aware of that
Mr. Joyce's office is handling. What I will say is that we have a lot of um uh legal services in Fall River that work with our families. Sometimes they directly reach out to uh attorney Joyce's office because they know that
he's our attorney. But on more than one occasion, uh Michael Joyce or another attorney in his firm will send it to me and say, "Lori, you know, this is we received this from this council. Do you want us involved?" And most of the time we don't
need them involved. Um, again, we utilize Michael Joyce and his colleagues because they are very knowledgeable of the due process piece, the FATE piece, and they help us to come to some resolutions without having to go to um
the BSEA to get things resolved. So in my department, the protocol is no one on a school base at a school-based level is making that call without consultation from the supervisor, the supervisor to
me once it's all approved. A team chair might send um attorney Joyce an email about the schedule of the meeting, right? They schedule the meetings, but it's never to seek legal advice, >> right? But even if like they send something, they review it, they're um
they're billing by by the for every action they take, they could be thinking about something and billing or something. >> They do take they do charge us to review a file. If we send them a file, it I mean our special education files, some of them are very thick um and very, you know, cumbersome. So yes, but the other
piece that attorney Joyce's office does for us, which again is just the way Fall River has always done it here, what I'm told, but maybe Mr. Reposa has something different. Title N. We use Attorney Joyce's office a lot for Title N um
situations. And then discipline, bullying, those types of um more difficult that that fall under Dr. Bronnhard. Those are the ones that again she um >> and Dr. Brian would have her own budget for that would or that would that would
come out of your budget. >> See that that was one of my questions. So in our budget it didn't look as if it was broken out in any way but typically you would see a breakout. So >> if I can interject I apologize. I did um >> say in the budget >> I I I did for this meeting I did in many
weeks in advance ask for that specific information. of maybe we can follow back up and get the from the business office get the the >> breakdown. you asked for a breakdown, but there wasn't a line in the budget. It was not broken down by line item is is kind of
what I'm getting after, which is what typically does happen in the budget is we would see, for example, in the budget line item, there are typically I think only three legal line items. You would see um general legal, you would see
special education legal, and you would see negotiations litigation sometimes. So, those are three typical cost centers that are in the chart of accounts for legal services. I noticed in our budget, I didn't see that. I I don't know why they
don't break it out that way. It seems to be kind of in all different places. Something that you might want to take a look at. >> So, I'm meeting I'm actually meeting um with Kevin >> tomorrow. Okay. I believe it's tomorrow for an hour and then on Friday again. And that's one of the things that you
know I I saw it myself and we talked about it actually had a cabinet meeting today. >> Um and I brought that up too um Kevin about >> can't put it in a you know not a bucket. It's got to be it's got to be an align item so that we actually know where it's coming from
>> so that when we do the end of the year audit we it actually comes from the right place at the right time so that each one of our departments knows how much they're going down and the superintendent of course on negotiations litigation um general
>> you know and there usually are two uh there's usually the school committee's attorney which is would be the the attorney I would call if I had a question because it we sometimes forget that they they really represent the school committee who we're working with because we work so closely with the
superintendent. Then we usually always we try to defer to student issues and special education law with a different law firm. That's why we do that. Now you can um uh from the school committee's purview, you could probably some some
district or some law firms will say a retainer for the year. Some will offer uh the first 15 minute phone call is free and then anything after 15 minutes they charge by. Um some will say all telephone calls are free,
>> you know. So um it's your parameters. I don't know when the last time I I saw that you asked for contracts and I think what we got was like a personnel contract, but typically what I'm used to is we would go out to bid. So we would bid for those parameters that Liz just mentioned. We would say we would like a
school committee attorney who would attend meetings like they would ask for an so like I don't have someone who has a contract for x number of dollars. >> I was going to ask I was actually going to ask you right now do you use an outside firm or do you have a person for an attorney? So, we have a firm for an
attorney. Our our attorney happens to also specialize in special ed. So, we have one firm who does everything for us, but that's not typical. Like, when I was in Massachusetts, I had two. Somebody did special ed, someone did school committee. Yeah. It's it's >> oftentimes they specialize in one or the
other. But >> typically, a school committee attorney is like an hourly rate. We don't need someone fulltime or even halftime. We need someone for meetings and then when the school committee has a question or
the superintendent has a question for us about policy or a hire or something and so then they would bill us at the rate we've agreed to in our contract that I think would save a tremendous amount of money because when you just pay someone
a salary and we talked about this for HR as an option because you we seem to have a lot of investigations here for HR that it almost would make sense to hire our own attorney to do that and let the school committee attorney be the person who just does our meetings, answers the
questions about school committee and superintendent. That would be a lot more cost effective than hiring someone. >> I was thinking I was I was really thinking the same thing coming into here. Maybe we should um look at a firm to handle multiple different items and
before um >> there's one out there that does everything. No, but I mean if it's one or two, like you said, I before Mr. Lul joined, I know we um >> discussed placing um having the district have their own attorney as well to help your office out. >> HR. Yeah.
>> If um and I think this is within the scope to ask about it. The um line item that we place for HR looking to hire maybe an attorney for that or >> So the is currently an investigations, right? Is that what it
we have um tomorrow I'm meeting >> with um >> interrum HR. >> Uh this person does have their JD. >> Awesome. >> Um this person wants to be an interim. I am speaking to them tomorrow. >> So you'll have to keep hunting for someone. >> But it gives me it gives us some time to
repost. But um I think that >> uh Brian has met with her or Brian has met with the person. The person will come to me tomorrow. asked to meet and then I'll probably um move to recommend to appoint and then or I will appoint and then uh we'll go from there and then
um >> now as I knew that this was going to come up in these meetings going forward. So now we can hear it and I can talk to the superintendent Smith and let her know the thoughts of and >> uh that what the committee would like so that I can go in that direction and say
this is what they are looking for. Can we post it and go in that direction as you just said looking for that could be one of the um what you want >> and it's a cost savings as well. We have an attorney attorney inside that can help your office out with those
questions and maybe can h take some of the not not necessarily special ed but it can take some of the maybe title n or things off off of those books. That'll be extreme a great cost savings to the district. reding of record public records request.
I mean if you you know one thing Michael Joyce does Michael Joyce's office does they break down like you can see if it's a reduction of records if it's a student with special education if it's title n I do think if we're going to change kind of the protocol of that too I approve
like so I initial the invoice for Michael Joyce >> not just for specialist >> do it all. >> Oh yeah that should be broken. I look because I don't >> Yeah, because I see I go through all of the special ed ones, but there's other things on there and it will say
superintendent, assistant superintendent. >> So, those folks should be initialing those because, you know, and and I mean, let's face it, our attorneys are the people we probably trust the most. So you're really just checking to make sure did we do this this month or this says special ed but this is really assistance
to just but again since we don't have broken out line items it probably doesn't matter right now but if we break out the line items the way they're supposed to you wouldn't charge >> anything but special ed to the special ed line so that you would only be signing off on those and checking to
make sure yep this is all the special ed stuff that goes to the special ed line. Everything else would be the superintendent's office going, okay, this is normal stuff. This goes on our bill and then this is negotiations. This goes in this. So those cost centers are really how we should be reporting out. So that's probably just something we
have to fix and then who signs off goes to whoever is responsible for that line item. So I guess the next question if we um and it it sounds like whatever we do if we hypothetically as a committee choose to hire a law firm >> that not this policy isn't here but
future policies we would need a negotiator would um do law firms usually handle negotiations anywhere >> I mean the school committee attorney typically does is the person who does negotiations but negotiations isn't typically every year or at least it's not every union every year so again
that's a different line item so we would look and say, "Okay, next year we have the teachers. We know that's going to take a lot of hours in that budget line item. We need to put more money because we know we have teaching." On a year we where we might have a couple of small unions, we might say, "Okay, we don't
have to put it's really about how much we're budgeting in those line items, not necessarily who does what. It's making sure that we have enough of the funding." So that I think this policy is probably fine as is. It'll be when we go out to bid or post for a new attorney.
But this doesn't say anything. I don't think that contradicts what >> what we just talked about. >> I think some of the language should be updated in terms of we don't have a city solicitor. Um like that's the first line. It says may use services provided by the city solicitor, school committee.
Basically, >> what's the title of the uh of the city attorney? >> Corporation council. >> So that just has to change to corporation council. Is it city corporation council or corporation? >> Corporation. But what's this next page?
>> That's a excellent question >> right there. >> So is this the MASC model policy? >> That has a lot of differences versus that. >> That's interesting. >> You know what I mean? >> I think it's a because that's what they were saying even on this other one that said
Maywire. So I know >> you know what I'm saying what we were talking about before >> just because there was a couple >> maybe she goes I think we I think I can handle >> there is model policy as well for >> I said this this is the most updated it
says 2022 again get rid of the note down the bottom before we adopt it. >> But I think this is the one we should adopt the updated ones. >> Sure. Um, should we also recommend to the full committee that we go out to bid for? >> I have no idea. Is that Is there a
contract that's up >> there? Yes, there is a contract and it should be in the backup. >> Okay. >> At least >> I see a job description. >> Oh, maybe it's not in the backup. I believe attorneys >> you just only asked for the job description. >> Attorneys I did ask for in the past. Attorney Assad's um contract is up this
upcoming year. This June >> in June, I believe. >> Okay. So, that's something we could go out to bid for. >> Okay. So, um I'll Would we use a job? So, we have a job description. >> Typically, when you go out to bid, there's not a job description. You just
go out to bid saying we're looking for an attorney who can >> be the school committee attorney, do negotiations and arbitrations. >> Yeah. And then we would say, you know, I mean, you don't have to go with lowest bid for an attorney. You can interview and choose legal as one of those exempt things. But this would we would get some
bids from some from whoever was interested. Could be attorney Assad, whoever it would be. And then we would review the bids and then make a recommendation from the bids. I just don't think we need someone on a salary who's got here regular time. I I think we need someone for meetings and for
>> I agree. >> It sounds like right now Michael Joyce is handling most of the other things. So >> discipline especially. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, it just feels like we have a little bit too much crossover. >> No, I agree. Yeah, I think um I think the administration is going to look into this thoroughly, the issue of um
splitting up the money and we'll we'll get something settled on that. Maybe we can get something hopefully before we pass the budget, we can break down the budget line items a little better. >> And all of our bargaining units are on the same schedule. >> Um so, >> so does that mean though you have a couple of off years?
>> We start in the fall again because it took us a while. So, I believe it's I believe it starts in October. Okay, that's on your list. Deputy secret, >> please fix that. Let's stagger them. >> You got to stagger them. >> But it's all Yeah, I believe it's all at the same time. So, just makes it a lot better. >> 2027, right?
>> Yeah. Okay. >> All expire in >> I will I'll make a motion that we refer to the full committee. We adopt the model policy um and that we recommend that we go out to bid for >> Well, that doesn't remember it's only
April, right? So, what's the timeline for for bids here? Do we know what that is? >> I do not know. Do Do we >> I I'm just wondering if this is a little bit of homework for the deputy to figure out what the process is to go out to bid before we I mean, if it could be ready
for the next meeting because our next meeting is not till May, right? May. >> Yes. Correct. I mean, if we we can if the if the administration isn't ready, we can recommend it. We can make a placeholder as a recommendation to go out to bid and then see how long it takes to bid here. I feel like there's a
lot of bidding rules here. >> Look, >> please. >> Yep. >> So, I'll make So, um make that motion. We um approve the model policy and we um recommend that we go out to bid as a placeholder subject to the
administration looking into the issue. >> Motion still made. Is there a second? >> Second. All those in favor say I. I. All those opposed. Um just quickly on this if and again this I guess could be for the full
committee. This hasn't been adopted since 2010. If we ended up if we end up keeping a person up individual I was 10 years old when this was >> we can look for a new one. >> Yeah. Maybe we can find an updated bid document from another district. We could
>> Oh yeah. Maybe we'll have a firm. >> Yeah. >> Um, >> okay. Awesome. So, that was 3-3. Moving on to >> BA. >> 3-4 discussion vote to refer evaluation
of school committee operational procedures policy BAA. And when I took a look at this, um, I personally think we should keep it as is. I think we should have policies in place where we review our operational structures every years and have certain goals to improve.
Um just my that's just my opinion as one member, but >> I I know you've only been on a year and a half, but does the school committee have a self-evaluation tool? >> We not that I'm aware of now. >> Is there a historical self-evaluation
tool for the school committee? Because this says we're going to set goals and evaluate ourselves, but it doesn't look like we have a tool to evaluate ourselves on an annual basis. >> This is about us evaluating ourselves. Have we ever >> So, do you do you want to keep this on
our next agenda and I can bring you some samples and maybe we can look at them and recommend one to the full committee? >> Sure. And do you think um you think it would be within your purview as the evaluation? If you want to refer it to evaluation subcommittee, I can have that committee work on an self eval for the school committee.
>> Sure. I think that I think that would be appropriate. So, um >> I'll make a motion we we refer the policies to full committee as is and we request evaluation subcommittee um review certain um rubrics to full committee. Yes, >> that's good.
>> Motion still made. Second. >> Second. >> All those in favor say I. I. All those opposed. Okay. Um 3-5 is a discussion and vote to refer new school committee member orientation policy. I don't know if this is something that should be a separate
policy or if this is something that should be within here. Um my thoughts were and and the new superintendent um Miss um Superintendent Smith mentioned this in her opening remarks that we need um retreats, we need professional
development as a committee. So maybe expanding this to include um some sort of um and I know I believe we approved the training budget as well. Maybe some language in here around um trainings, yearly trainings for members of the committee for the chair
I think would be appropriate either in this or as a separate um um policy. It's my opinion. Um but I think the policy here is fine just really expanding it. Whatever the committee's thoughts are to that. I
mean, I don't think it I think we didn't we already talk about a policy where we put in that we had to do training or do we just vote on that? I >> think we just voted on we voted for all of us to >> I mean this would be helpful I would say if they were live links. So as a new member it would have been nice to go to this policy and just click on oh let me
look at the policy manual oh let me review the open meeting law. So rather than say a copy of and Debb you having to send us a copy of things if these were live links you could get rid of copy and just say you know click here for our school committee policy manual click here for the open meeting law and
then a new member could just take this and and look it up themselves versus I know we got all of this but we got it from you. You emailed it to to us but rather than you having to do that every time there's new members you could just send them this and they could click on the links themselves and get all of
that. I'm just I'm just thinking that's a timesaver that you don't have to do all that and then members can just be referred to this. >> Um and I I guess I'll say there's a speaking as and maybe we all can comment
on there's a second part of this policy talks about the chair andor superintendent sh also clarify policy around visits all this information. I don't know if that happened didn't happen for me. >> Say it again. Um so the chair the chair andor superintendent shall also clarify
policy, arranging visits um to schools um requesting information regarding school district operations, responding to community requests, uh handling confidential information. Um maybe we should just keep it as is and I'm just hopeful it'll just be filed going
forward is I guess >> I say keep it as is. >> Yeah, but I think it would be helpful if that happens. >> Correct. Um, is there any model policy that we have or is just I think this was reviewed in the 20.
>> Yeah, this one 2022. >> Is this is this this policy we currently have? It's the same that >> is this one from 2017, but it looks the same. >> Yeah, it's pretty much the same. >> Yeah. >> All right. So, uh, if it's tweaks and language, I'll make a motion we refer
the model policy >> for BIA >> with live links. >> With live links with live links. >> Motion still made. Second. Second. >> All those in favor say I. I. All those opposed. >> Motion passes. >> All right. So, 3-6
is um school committee officers policy. going to just um state my my frustration to be honest. We received um policies. We received
um legal opinions the day of a meeting which were requested by our attorney weeks on end. And going back to our previous policy, we can request corporation council's opinion or or city solicitor says, but that's that is the
corporation council. I'm annoyed as one member. We have corporation council come at random to meetings which he is not invited to. If we're going to use corporation council, it should be a by vote of the committee.
It shouldn't be one member of the committee inviting the corporation council to come and give whatever opinion they want. I think there needs to be pol I think the policies in place state that the previous policy that we follow. So that just needs to be um
reinforced. I think just going through this, I don't know if the committee, some members of the committee had time to review the opinions. If we want to even take like a brief fivem minute recess just for everyone to review, that's fine with me. Whatever we
want to do, I think I think we'll take a brief fiveminute recess. We're going to take a brief fivem minute recess. Okay, thank you. Um, we had time to review the um proposed policies um recommendations by attorney
sud. This is for which one do we have first? >> EDB. >> EDB. Um I I as one member um just have further questions on that and hopefully we can get answers through our attorney. So
I'll make a motion to table BDB. Second >> BDB. All those in favor say I. I. All those opposed. Um, next item is school committee member authority policy. Um, this came before the committee before. It was came before the subcommittee. We
referred it to the full committee and we just referred referred it back to us. Um, I think there were just some minor touch-ups. I I think everything in the this opinion um matches. So I'll make a motion we re
refer BBAA to the full committee with the um opinions of um that were provided here. >> So Deb, for your purposes, cross out the two top red things. We we're not going to do those,
>> but we can keep the other edits according to the legal opinion. So the two top ones go, the bottom ones go. So, I'll second that motion. >> I think the the second one was to retain the will be settled. >> I don't know if that matters, but the >> Oh, I thought you said that one was not
was a no. Is that a yes? We could keep that. >> Yeah. It says um the proposal was to delete it. The opinion was retain the current language. Then we can keep that. >> Just keep that. >> Yeah. Yeah. I just want >> So, keep that. >> Yes. I'm adopting I'm whatever. Basically, I was saying whatever was
proposed to be changed, we language. Yes. in the legal language and whatever he said we could we could keep will keep. >> Perfect. >> Thank you. >> Okay. All those in favor? I I >> All those opposed? Motion passes.
All right. Next item is a discussion vote to refer fratinerization policy and staff to student conduct policy. Um had a brief email with the new deputy superintendent before. Um, if you have
anything you would like to I don't know, maybe I talked to I um is there anything um that the administration might have on this? >> Go for it. >> Go for it. >> Um,
I agree that there should be no frantization with a student and a staff member. Mhm. >> Um like I looked over this the policy from MASC. I looked over some of the the other policies from other districts
>> and some of the I thought it was clear. I thought it was very clear. I I I I was hoping that it was a fratization was just based on staff and student. I wasn't sure if you were moving towards
I guess >> I believe there was a referral this this wasn't one that was from myself or from any one member. I believe this was um a few members not even on this committee that would like to see both um leave it
to the subcommittee where they would like to go. Me as one member personally I believe there should be both a I mean different language of course one for specified for students and staff and one for staff to staff
>> I would say in my position that if you are uh somebody's director principal and you're an evaluator that's it would be unprofessional conduct. You can't evaluate somebody that you relationship with or in the
same building. We find like in large districts there's sometimes that are people that are married >> that you know one teaches in one building, one teaches in another, maybe one's a principal in one building, one's something, but it needs to be very clear of how that works. Um
that would if you want to spell something like that out, I think that that can be spelled out that you you can't be a spouse in the same building. um you know we >> some in that in that regard I think if
that's what you're looking for I don't want to get so specific I don't think you don't want to you don't want to box yourself in but it's very difficult to be in the same building I think and I do think um it and it's happened that you're that uh a principal is
evaluating not something that we can't have >> I I guess I I would ask um and and I agree with we don't want to we don't want to um prohibit staff from doing absolutely we we don't want to we don't want to change staff. I don't think that's the
goal of the committee and I don't think that's the goal of but um >> I guess in terms of um um an evaluator evaluating someone. >> Yes. >> More than just being a spouse any sort of um
>> Yeah. This is not our So if did you have a chance to read this advisory? So this came from the previous school committee. >> This one right here. >> Yeah. And I I I agree with you. There are professional standards and I think what this committee previously was looking for was to codify in some kind
of formal policy. Like this is the this is what's acceptable and this is what's not. I think some of this goes a little too far. >> That's what I was afraid of. >> Yeah. Some of it because I mean >> I was the principal of Talbot many moons ago when you were still a young teacher.
Yes. And we had, I think, three couples that got teachers who got engaged and were married and are still married today. You know, I I don't think that's a bad thing. And I think it happens naturally in a workplace. What we don't want are some of the things that that Liz was just talking about. We don't want a principal having a relationship
with a teacher. That person has power over that person. They evaluate them. They're in a position of control. That's not appropriate behavior. So perhaps um you and the superintendent could take a shot at creating a policy that addresses what we're worried about which is we want to see professional conduct.
supervisors should not engage in those kind of um relationships or initiate or or I don't know whatever you think might be a part but it seems like the old committee was very worried about this and I'm guessing from the read is there must have been circumstances under which this >> that's why I didn't want to get really
the conversation I it almost felt it was directed towards a situation >> that must be a little bit >> I think more than just a situation but I I think um just just to add I think and I believe the committee was primarily focused on staff to student. Um, which I
think um should go much much further than staff to staff. I think um something we should also consider if we're drafting a policy is I think there's more multiple ways you can have influence over someone. If you're if a certain department has like um a party,
what are the gifts? I mean, there's um laws on the books around gift giving. You can't give a gift over $50. um things things like that I think we could um I think could be addressed in some way or another. Um but again without
having to go into too much detail >> that should be an ethics that's policy that's an ethics policy and that's actually the law we all have to take the training and we all have to take the training and that speaks to its receiving a gift. >> Yeah. So it looks like Liz we need um
we've got a bunch of policies here. We've got a Dennis Yarmouth. We've got Manchester. We got a bunch. Can Can you work to craft one on the student >> and then a an adult one also? If we could have those two drafts for our next
policy rather than us trying to make we don't have time to write one right now about from these samples, but if you could put one together for us. >> Um I think that would be really helpful. >> Yeah, I think that to your point to everyone's point that these are our
students. We have to remember that. Absolutely. >> And I think that Anna would say that she probably does it in her district and I'm I'm sure that uh the superintendent will do it in our district that when we address staff at the beginning of the school year, middle of the school year uh 67 times during the school year that
you know we always say, you know, you don't give your cell phone out, you don't do this, you don't call a student at their home or text a student or you don't give those types of things. I think those things need to be spelled out. Yeah. >> In today's day and age. >> Agreed. Um we don't need to box people in. Um but we try I mean look at all the
the apps that we provide for our teachers so that they can um communicate with their classes or a a coach >> the new square is the appropriate way for staff to communicate with with >> and I say the same thing and and I'm sure that special ed because a lot of
parents >> we are they're advocates so they want to talk to that teacher especially um student with an IP. We still have to use the appropriate >> student information system has an email system that some staff use. You know, having a child in the district, I know that different teachers use different
modes. Some use parent square, some do it right through the um student information system. Those Yeah, those are those are the appropriate ways, but perhaps that could be spelled out in writing. So when someone doesn't do it, we have a policy that >> in place, >> right? I as you know you don't want to
box people in but I think in today's day and age it and we would say and I know that would say this too it's more to protect your staff we want to protect the student we want to protect the parent but we also want to protect the staff >> because there will be teachers or there will be people that will not teachers
there will be uh parent or grandparent who finds uh your email might be on a Facebook page and they find your Facebook page your email is there and then they email you and say oh my daughter's in your third period class. Is there any way you can call me at this number? And they private message you.
>> That comes up a lot and we have to just make sure that we're very >> Oh, of course. I don't think we want to like >> No, but no, no, no, but that's we need to spell that out at times for everybody. So, to to protect everyone, >> everyone >> um when you get to the uh >> just so you just so you're aware, I
don't mean to interrupt. We the committee did recently pass a social media policy >> that addresses some of those. >> Yeah, it does. But if you're going to do it, it should be thor very thorough on that one. The this the um the staff
conduct again, we don't want with staff other staff. I think that to Anna's point uh when we talk about a subordinate that's that's the level that I'm seeing and I agree your point of in a workplace
you're going to you know you're working with somebody you're down the hall and then you're having lunch and then after school and then the next day and so you want to do that and it happens that you know you we hire I hire kids I guess I'm old now but you know you bring 22-year-old teacher graduating
UMass or or whoever and they're young and there's other young teachers, you know. So, but there has to be a time and a place >> and we don't want to box people in, but we do want to make sure appropriate conduct, >> right? And fratization happens after hours. >> That's right. >> Not during school. You can date the
teacher across the hall, but not during the school day. Date them after hours. So, that's the kind. So, it it doesn't feel like this is a policy language. It's more of a narrative of what we want to see happen. So, if you could put together like >> I want to say something,
>> but I'm not sure if I can say it. I want to tell you what I think, but I don't want to tell you just very clear. This is how what we're going to do. ABC, B, C, and D. >> Yep. Perfect. >> Yeah, I'm very hopeful. We we'll have some good policies on the board. >> Okay. I'll make a motion table 3-8.
>> Well, can we can we can we instead of tableabling, can we refer that to the um superintendent and deputy to bring us a a draft policy to the next? >> Right. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, we we can motion we can word it that way. I'll make a motion to refer to the administration to come back at the next meeting.
>> Second. >> Second. >> All right. All those in favor? I I those opposed. So I believe we are at the last item for discussion. Um 3-9. Um meant for this to actually just be an update, not even a discussion vote to refer,
just a public records request and policy. And um just something I know the I I think it's important that and we had the conversation before just trying to streamline any public records requests.
Um but again some should might have to go through special ed but even if it's a request for information special ed dollars should go to helping those students. Um I think either if we can just get an update at some
point. I know a few members were curious about this. It's just um either we have an attorney, the attorney position that we recommended that can that can handle this or maybe it's at a point we had a discussion today. We have
a firm the firm can handle the request take the um the load off of again take again our clerk doesn't have to focus on the records request one and secondly and again if
These attorneys get build by the hour. So if someone submits an appeal, and I know there's a few from including myself, there's a few different appeals that were submitted to supervisor records um company the um Michael Joyce has to respond th those are those again
that's being buil by the hour and I don't think um that's that's good and especially we have someone in house that can handle that. I just just want to really just put it on just wanted to just have a quick discussion on it as just as an update. I don't know if you have any opinion. >> We have a policy on public records
request. >> I we actually I believe we have um a policy. I should have um we can maybe have a discussion in the future. We have um >> where we want to kind of put our opinions on our on if there's a policy where we can address that. I just I'm
looking for a policy that's about >> section K. I believe in second there's um I mean record I mean we could adopt a policy maybe um I I know there's it could be section K I guess maybe maybe
we can come back to this um I do know there are some policies around um like you can go and like um and like look at the budget and look at certain um financial documentation um I think we need to make it easier for members of the committee to request
information as well. I think with a new administration, I think we'll we'll be fine in that regard, but it's been an issue in the past. >> And in in times of in the past, they've had a foil request. Myself, um my assistant would go through meeting
notes or if there was uh you know, if it was a discipline, a Sure. >> in that in that regard. So, progressive discipline. Sure. and we get a request for a request for the meeting notes. We would go through you redacting names,
you're redacting >> whatever could something that was a private information or something that would could distinguish you from me in in a in in a document. We
would do that and then we would um at times send it to the attorney after we have already lined it and after we had already did most of the redaction. So it's a very quick movement of theirs to go through because we know
we can't you know you're not putting out someone's name and you're not putting if someone is foiling they already know what they're looking for >> and they already know the name and they already know what's happening. They're just looking to see, >> yeah, >> you know, what are some of the things that were said in that meeting?
>> So, we do a lot. I Well, I have done a lot of that. I used to do a lot of that. Do you We redact and we do it and then we send it just to make sure it's proofed >> properly. Sometimes. And sometimes it's just what you can do it yourself. You don't need to send it to an attorney. I do a lot myself. >> I do a lot myself. And I guess that's
when we look at job descriptions. >> That should not be in Jeb's job description. you have enough with all of our stuff. But that is something that's typically sits with the superintendent secretary because the superintendent themselves, as you mentioned, you did it. I do it. I do it all the time. If
there's something that feels like it could be legal issue or I'm not sure about something, I will send it to an attorney. But that's like far and few between. Most of the time the public record request my secretary does, she sends it to me for review and then it's good to go and it goes out. that makes
it I mean there's 10 days so you have time if you need to but that is not something that should be regularly going to an attorney again that's costing us money every time we do that >> yeah and I I that's why I'm saying I I've never seen that because we do it in
the office >> right >> so just you know to send it out I like we we would >> I would say that uh Superintendent Smith um she would want to see the request and she would want to see the notes from the meeting. If it were not her meeting, um
just knowing her um and being down the street, I think we I think probably knowing Anna, I would probably do the same thing the same way, right? >> Let us see the the notes or if we were in the meeting, most of those times that you're in there, if somebody's foiling on something, >> probably a big enough thing that you're part of it,
>> I would think. I can't imag you know, I can't imagine outside. I really that's usually, you know, either somebody thinks that there's something sideways going on and they want to get clarification why it's going sideways or they don't think they're getting the
whole >> package. So, >> all right. >> And hopefully we can curb that a little >> No, very good. I feel No, I feel very confident in that. Um I'm sorry. >> Still scrolling to find that. It's like on page 300 KDB.
>> I'm only as far as F 171. I there there are certain there there's a few policy there's a financial policy as well. We can >> I think we should come back and address it. Um >> when I don't have to do this and find KB and we can see what
>> I will I'll send it to you Ash. >> All right. So >> I'm almost there. >> Item four, new business. Does anyone have any new business today? >> Seeing none. >> Well, we had talked about looking at the policy and I'm sorry I should have emailed this to you. It just got hectic
this week, but at school committee, we've talked about looking at public comment policy. >> Yes. >> I don't know what number that is, but can we make sure that's on our next agenda, please? >> Okay. >> Um, seeing no further business, can I entertain a motion to adjurnn? So move.
>> Motion so made. Second. All those in favor say I. I. Thank you everyone. Very good meeting.