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afternoon everybody afternoon we're running late so let's let's get started welcome to the February 20th regulatory review meeting
for more fun and games first up vote minutes November 21 2024 anybody remember November 24 would these for this would a regulatory meeting or just reg yes yes okay so yeah I was at that one I'll
I'll move to accept the minutes as ready all right we got a motion in a second to accept the minutes of November 21st any comments or questions we're voting all I I all eyes
I we're so used to waiting for you to call all right recap from last meeting last hearing that's not really a hearing should scratch that expect that from the
minutes all right well on Alyssa give a recap well so we also haven't gone over from the December meeting as well um so do you
want to start there a little further back um so I got I sent you guys the um updated review from that we started out talking about fire pit and Patio areas and we talked about sheds we kind of
separated the two topics so we predominantly focused on sheds at that time so um Jen has written up a draft revision to the RS for everyone's review um to those who've looked through it did that look acceptable I took out the word
structure I just put shed not to exceed 200 square fet because we were getting too much in the Weeds about what constitutes a shed where you know and honestly we just care about the footprint of the structure not what the what they use the what's inside yeah the
internal yeah whether they're storing a lawn mower or a TV in a couch so why are you limiting it to 200 is it vzone is that what it is 200 no I think that's we're just going in line with the building department they're 200 square F feet I believe right Jamie yeah so I
thought the 200 I'm I'm sorry I thought the 200 square fet thing was that if it was less than 200 square ft you did not need a building permit over 200 square ft you do I correct that is correct in the building permit you have always
needed a concom permit for a shed right because we mitigate so I mean no but what Courtney saying so there's there's two ways we're using that 200 you're correct a shed under 200 ft does not require a building permit but we've been using the 200
which is the exemption to the FEMA right so that's what the building department allows so we have just historically followed that right um yeah mostly yeah I'm trying to clarify in my mind yeah you know um well
I think what it is me if a shed was 300 Square F feet courney we're trying to allow for sheds because we got into this trap where the board was not allowing sheds because they were moving closer than the present primary structure right
so this is a way to allow for a shed between the house and the resource areas correct Jamie yep yeah like in an a Zone in an a Zone correct but not a vzone it could be a vzone also different
topic different topic sh the that's a that's a different topic we're just trying to find a way to to allow but that's where we came up with the 200 okay we had to pick something and that that's just a good number
for a host of reasons um and an important one is what you just said is because it doesn't require a building part we just have to get building on board with the fact I know that but we have to get them more
aware that when somebody walks up to the counter and says do I need a permit for a shed their answer is no because you're at in the building department we need to ask them to help us by saying no you
don't need a building permit but check down the hall with conservation you may need a permit for that may may um then it's going to come to if if we're allowing that are we doing it under an
RDA it depend well 200 square feet would require depending on where it is if if it's in zone a it would requires 600 square ft of mitigation and we had talked about changing the regs to allow um for mitigation under 200 square feet
under an RDA so by that it would require a notice if you want to reconsider that that's something this board can do we need to consider that so yes so I I heard you the 200 if it's 200t of
mitigation we're considering doing that under an RDA as opposed to a notice we should also consider if we're going to allow a shed at 200 square ft that we allow that mitigation 2:1 or 3:1 under
an RDA because this is the problem we have that people have is having to do a not yeah a notice for something as simple as a shed because when you think about the engineering involved no disc to any
Engineers what it cost to get a plan is more than the shed shed yeah so let's be let's try to be realistic I was trying to pick the right word I mean just you know reason go down
to shed Fair reason buy one and they pop it on the problem with that jie doesn't go with the deed that this planting is there this mitigation is there and another issue um from a staff
perspective what we have seen is that we do a shed under an RDA okay let's do shed RDA azone 600 square ft okay that property owner in 3 years decides to sell new property owner comes that 600
square fet doesn't go in we don't have a plan that shows where it goes and then that house is being raised and rebuilt and they are counting the shed as existing impervious coverage that they
want to use towards that so from a staff perspective you see where I'm saying and I know we're getting into the weeds but the these are the real life issues that as staff we're seeing on these plans so if there's no plan for the shed in the
mitigation then we can't determine if that mitigation actually went in and therefore when they're raising and rebuilding and they're counting the shed is existing impervious coverage you know now we have to determine whether that mitigation went in or not so it's it
it's putting a little bit more not that it's just putting a little bit more research on the staff end which is fine if that's what the board wants to do I'm just giving you real like what's middle ground because again you're you're I didn't even think of
that that you're asking an applicant to hire an engineer to tell them where it is where the mitigation is going to go but then they have to also have engage the engineer to to document that it is so there's that fee so again we just get
you know we get a $1,000 sh you know the a Zone you must have had a plan a previous plan to know where the resource areas are you just have to update a plan right not necessarily some some
properties don't have plans y again I know you wanted to tie the shed thing up think it was a really easy lwh hanging through topic and maybe it's not so maybe we think about it a little bit more and I know we don't want to beat sheds to death but I I think it
warrants more of a conversation you know you guys go out to every property even for an RDA right correct so the additional step is you don't go out for an RDA compliance for compliance correct
so just to follow my line of thinking okay we would be asking you to take one extra step correct me if I'm wrong if we allow the shed if you guys went out and did your inspection and the homeowner said this is where I can fit my mitigation and let's just say you agreed
with it you said yeah it looks fine the the extra step is for you to go back afterwards and verify so that could be done that would have you would have to write and I'd have to I would have to clear that with
councel because under the wetlands protection act basically again like we say every meeting it's just a determination that the regulations don't apply it's for very small projects that we are allowing homeowners I was actually speaking to an engineer this
afternoon less than an hour ago asking us why we require rdas and flood zones for houses I said well it's the board's way of making it very easy for a resident in a flood zone not in a buffer to be able to raise and rebuild you're still in the commission's jurisdiction
we still need paperwork on it we're just not going to let make you go through the whole rig a roll of filing a notice if it's in a AE flood zone in the middle of f with Heights we we don't require that so we're we're trying to make um certain
permanent processes easier for the residents that said if you want to add a compliance component under your local RS I don't see H why that would be an
issue the problem is is that rdas are not recorded therefore it's not encumbrance on the deed therefore it would again it would be on the staff to track all of these rdas which there are
hundreds and hundreds a year and there's no check and balance usually you know we we send somebody off with the notice you know maybe in 5 years they ask for compliance you know we go out we check but a lot of properties they ask for compliance when they're in the process
of selling because it's it's it's an incumbrance on the deed and lending institutions will not you know will not write a mortgage out on an encumbered property so again it it it's something that and I again I I remember the first couple of hearings you know we were
getting very frustrated talking about sheds again but it's a little bit more complicated so I think I don't think we'll settle it tonight but it's something that we need to think a little bit more about yeah you you hit on a topic that's
bothered me for almost as long as I've sat on this commission and it comes to the issue of yeah we don't want to have everybody file a notice in tent so everything gets when it's when it's something
small yet the problem is if you require mitigation under an RDA there's no way to enforce that because it doesn't get recorded with a deed and that creates a
problem later on potentially and I would like to see some kind of mechanism where if we're going to require mitigation even under an RDA that that we require that that part of the mitigation be
recorded with the deed so it becomes a lean I don't know whether we can do that legally but I'm really always been troubled with the idea that oh yeah we'll just tell them to throw a few plants in the ground and we have no way of enforcing
it which brings us right back to it being a notice which whole idea of bringing this up was to yeah I agree I I hate to you know if it's a small thing I hate to put you know we're we're not in the business of being jerks we're in the business of trying to protect the
wetlands and we want to get to where we're where we are so it's a real dilemma I don't know the answer to this I I'll give you I'll give you an example and I'm gonna I'm going to pick on one of the Commissioners Ron Ron has said multiple times over the
past however many months you've been you've raised some concerns about seeing you know plans that sit there and say oh we're going to offer mitigation here but we're also planting mitigation for an old RDA or an old notice and you've asked us well why wasn't this done and
and and that brings it to it so rda's require plans as as staff just reminded me RDA require plans regardless we would require a plan to show us where the shed is going to be the plan is the most at least we don't get involved D in the
business dealings of the Consulting Community but in our mind the plan is probably the most costly and we require plans for rdas don't I have to show Wetland resources everything oh well there you go so why you rarely see an
RDA that does not have a plan attached to it well then if what is certifying the resource areas not necessarily we've always had a policy or it's always been the staff and the commission stance that we don't we do not um confirm resource
areas under rdas but I mean if they put a Salt March on the plan we look down and there's a salt marsh we're going to say okay the salt marsh is there I mean it's what is the legal impediment to
recording something like that even though it's an RDA if we're going to say there's a plan and there's going to be mitigation why can't we require that to be recorded that is a legal question and I will have to get back to you Courtney I'm serious I you know because I think
otherwise you know most people are going to go along with the deal they're fine with it and they're happy that they don't have to file a notice intent and I don't and I hate to lay all this on on
those folks but there are enough folks who don't look at things that way and are trying to game the system and unfortunately we have to have regulations that can be have some teeth in them and if we can't we're going to
require mitigation and we have no way of enforcing it to me I I think it weakens our own position actually it weakens our own authority I mean we brought this we brought this to you because you know
before the board allowed sheds and then there was a determination by this board that the sheds went against your regulations because we had that it can't move any closer than the present primary structure then we were put into a
position where we were telling Property Owners yes you have to put your shed beside your house in front of your house which is not allowed by zoning so this is just a way to allow people to have a shed so we've really gone too far the other way of what we really were trying to accomplish
what we're really trying to accomplish is simply the fact that we will allow it correct period let's allow people have a within the regulation The Standard Process yes okay that was a good way of putting it thank you so and I probably
am guilty of complicating it you are so I mean we can we can I we don't need to again talk this through tonight but it's something I want this board to think about and what do you want to allow them under rdas we have a plan you know it's that mitigation component
that you know may or may not be right right right so so what we we really should be deciding on is is simply the fact that we're going to allow a shed closer than the present primary structure period with or without
mitigation you're going to you're going to whether whether whether it requires mitigation or not what I'm saying is we went too far the other way where where the the original question I believe was simply can we find a way to
allow sheds closer to than a present primary structure and the answer that I think is yes we can but we're not we're not going to relax the rules
that it still has to be on a plan a proper plan and it has to be mitigated ated for and that has to be recorded So in a manner of speaking we overstepped our own bounds so the real
the real thing we just need to decide is if we're going to allow a shed closer to present primary structure your I'm going to fall off Courtney not yet this all came about because there was a little tiny lot that was within
however close you can be for for your lot coverage 10 ft 25 ft a house whatever it's a little tiny lot and the only place they could put a shed was there yeah so I'm just going to
throw one more curve into this it could be you can have a shed closer to the closer than the primary structure if there's no other place on the lot to have that shed
that's subjective yeah I think we just no I get it it's it's it's a very real problem but by the same token you you could put yourself in a position where we would be allowing
something that we might not think in the end is a good solution I think you're going to see you see sheds more often on the smaller Lots than you would see on a lot then could
that could um uh what's the word I'm looking for um it's still like everything else you still have to look at accommodate a three car garage you know um so you I mean usually
you see sheds in on on smaller lots that can't accommodate a multi-bay garage that one way could be used for storage again we can think about it and we can Circle back let you guys mul it over
we're just bringing up examples of you know using the shed as existing coverage you know these kind of nuances on the plans and then when properties change hands that sort of thing trying to allow somebody to have a sh truthfully I don't have a heart
attack about yeah you know the shed allowing a shed I think we have to examine it on a caseby casee basis but what I I'm hung up on and I don't mean to repeat myself is the issue of mitigation for something under an RDA
and this is we're beyond that no I know you're beyond it but I want a resolution of it and if we can't require if we can't enforce mitigation under an RDA then I hate to make him go to a notice but to me that's what we have to do so we
need to get a legal opinion as to whether or not we can J already has that on her list okay number two from December what that was from December
right a recap that was a recap from we're still we're still on December was only number one that was number one that was number one from December we got fire pit no no there was only a couple really meant to discuss today okay um like are
we good with SH for right now we'll continue that discussion well just not about that specifically but the procedure any of these changes have to go to the town meeting correct once this board decides on what I've got it bet
once the board decides on changes we will write them up we will have more public hearings even though this is a public hearing we will have specific public hearings you know during only for that
subject only for the these subjects okay once it goes through the public hearing process we need to advertise it in the paper it goes to a 60-day comment period we have to advertise it for a certain amount of days and quite frankly I don't remember the amount of days I'll have to
double check on that then we get 60 days for comment period we need to take the comment back incorporate them into regulations if you choose and then you can promate the regulations in between that time we would need to go and present these to
the select board not town meeting you only go to town meeting for the law you're changing the bylaw yeah that's what I wasw so what I was getting at was that we we kind of talked about having these meetings
indefinitely but at some point we've got to say the shed just for example the shed is is resolved where we we have a consensus on that yes and we can start that process we don't necessarily have to wait for everything
that we've ever discussed no and we're we're internally talking about that there are things that we have that we can start Drafting and bring to you and start the public hearing process it's similar to what the board of health is going through right now they're looking at I know you told me and I just no it's
okay they're going through the they're their internal this is your internal process even though it has to be a public meeting because we have a quorum of the board but this is more like your internal process we've asked Engineers to come no I was just thinking if we had a hard deadline that we wouldn't do
these meetings till September 1st no we don't have a hard de then we could finalize everything yeah but that's not probably not going to be the case no and we should consider keeping this going yeah but I definitely because there's so many things that come up that need just clarification
to a certain degree okay okay moving on okay um not a note for discussion tonight but then we sort of made our way into fire pits and fire pit patios so you do have in your um notes sort of a dra rision put
together by Jen you guys can look at and see if you're in agreeance with it and we can put that on another agenda um the second thing we talked about last time were enclosures in velocity zones which we're going to talk about a little bit later in this
discussion because I'd like to go through the Gathering from last time when Shannon was here and she kind of gave us an education about how things are changing um with the coastal a Zone um but I did Jamie you were talking
about maybe doing like a percentage of what could be an enclosed space so I did provide a couple examples did the best I could trying to figure out square footage looking at an architectural I've never done that before but I gave a couple just as food for thought and see what you think about
them um we had closed the agenda item for long-term monitoring we're just going to have them file rdas um to keep going on projects we all suppos to [Music] have oh you didn't do we do we send them
to them right okay would you like me to make copies of this so we can read along I will go do that for you right now Alissa will continue and I will get your copy there's not much left but um we talked about Vista pring last time but we still
needed some more time to have you guys look through the other towns materials for Vista pruning um we talked about that last time we gave everyone information about other towns Vista pruning regulations so there was some time for you guys to look through see
what made sense to you if you'd like to incorporate change things um we were going to put that on a future agenda to keep talking about it um we wanted today to really focus on the flood zone information from last time
um can I ask something do do you have I mean I made comments I read all those and that was months ago I'm not going to reread all of them again to make my comments okay so did did you keep well
fctv we must be to get a copy from fctv but the thing is this these things are so far apart when I get stuff I get it I make my comments I make the comments at the next meeting yeah and then we go off I mean I can't
remember well there were some good ideas from those other towns yep and they we we didn't get through everything the last time so that's what I'm trying to wrap things up so we had a couple topics to talk about today to wrap up potentially wrapping up
flood zone and then the Vista the patios and the docks I was going to put on the next agenda we can try to wrap those up too before we introduce new topics but you'll be able to refresh what we've already talked about yeah all right yep I didn't go
through it all in too much down but I can go through that more um we had also talked about that 25t offset that we have in our regulations for velocity zones um um and I don't know if everyone was able to
watch the recording of um Shannon's presentation from last month but we can get into that more and how that plays into that Coastal a Zone um and then we kind of already touched upon this mitigation requirements under
rdas we talked about 200 square feet so Jen put together a draft revision for everyone's review um but if we still want to think about that before we talk about it too much more we can put that on another agenda we had brought up outdoor
kitchens and velocity zones because you have those vertical walls we're putting in sitting walls pizza ovens things of that nature um we did not get to developing a draft special condition for that you guys didn't really think it was prudent
to write a regulation but just sort of it as a special condition um so once we have that R we'll provide that in a summary for to review I had brought up Landscape walls that are appearing on properties and you guys had mentioned that we should start requiring mitigation for them so we've
already started implementing that so that's good we had talked about potentially changing the time frame for Grand fathering a doc and we're still looking into that so we need to talk to council about it and um and then we're going to be updating
the administrative review regulations since most of that is no longer applicable we will make sure we print out our staff notes for everyone thank you for the next year we yeah from the last
week back with those where do we want to okay where we let's let's get 25 foot offset and go with the LI yeah this was yeah this was just a quick refresher again we were trying to
see things that we could kind of for lack of a better term put to bed um that we could start drafting so I will work on that again sheds and those things we will come back to about how you want to permit those um does everybody have
these notes no no not the ones I just gave these ones they're different actually they're similar okay so I can just run I can run these through this copier here so if you want to start from when our gathering
was we have that is that was that in our back cuz I haven't seen it the pictures were used twice she just gave it you no the pictures were used twice oh okay we were just kind of Rec tapping from that and then adding in a little bit of the and
then that was from December this is from January right so and what we want to cover is the setback first right the yes so let me just print these up for you I can run them here since you already have the pictures in
color I just picked up on a small thing under draft definitions of a fire pit up above it says you know it's can't be built in it can be removable right it's
there's a and then down below it says it can be steel or masonry right um masonry Mason a movable masonry fireplace is that front end loader out and move it
huh yeah I Googled the definition of fire recording that's why I suppose if it's a modu block thing you can take it apart if it isn't boed together yeah I know how much
Rock but it just seemed that seems in congruous cuz when I think of masonry it doesn't move well I think what they're suggesting is we don't create a definition right
okay so it be on a for this very reason right because I didn't I did something right well again that's what it comes down to do me favor um okay a case by casee basis so
right so under item f it says staff still recommends not creating a regulation or definition so my question is we we would Grant it as a variance then if we were going to Grant it at
all so it would be a on a Case by case back on oh in January Okay so yeah yeah so in the commission Gathering notes this was just a recap of shanon's presentation of um Gary Street's
contribution and then sort of our takeaways um so for those who weren't there and who saw in the packets that Jenna just gave you um the newest thing that we're focusing on and have to be aware of is the coastal a Zone does
everyone have a general understanding of what that is or can I recap it for you probably recap it for Courtney Jamie and Kevin because Ron and Bessie were the only ones here okay um so basically FEMA is introducing
a new division of the AE flood zone i y it's going to be in between the velocity Zone and the rest of the a zone so it's going to be called the coastal a Zone and basically in this area they're extending all the velocity Zone
requirements so in terms of the building code any structure in the coastal a zone is going to be required to be up on pilings um so what we are attempting to introduce through all of this logic here
is that we should be updating our regulations accordingly introducing this Coastal a Zone as a definition as part of the breakdown of FEA flood zones also incorporating it in all of our Provisions that have to do with
construction and velocity zones and just attributing those regulations to this type of flood zone as well um we're recommending not I'm going to jump in here right now so the state of Massachusetts
has issued a draft revision to the wetlands protection act specifically the wetlands protection unlike your bylaw defines land subject to Coastal storm Flowage which you see velocity zones in Co u a zones and now Coastal a zones um
they have a definition only they are proposing regulation regulations written on land subject to Coastal storm Flowage those regulations are currently I think the draft is almost 2 years old and it
hasn't had any movement um the draft regulations on the state are going to require as the building code that if a so as Alyssa just stated um the current build the next addition building
code uh Jamie if you're in a coastal a Zone you're going to need to build to vzone standards the state is taking it one step further in saying that structures in a coastal azone proposed regulations they have not been pring
at shall be on open pilings only and there's a lot of other nuances in there you know you can't increase the footprint all of that what we're what we're saying or recommending is because we don't know when those State when and
if those state regulations will ever be in effect is that since this town is always been proactive with your 25t offset and we'll get to that that we are recommending that if a and there's not a whole lot of
places in town but there are um that if you fall if a structure Falls within this Coastal a Zone then you should um we could the staff is recommending you build it to our current vzone standards on open piling small
enclosure that because it basically goes from a 3ot wave height to between a 1 and a half and 3T W he so you're going from vzone to Coastal a Zone and the coastal a Zone isn't
everywhere to an aone so you're going 3ot and greater wave height 1 and 1/2t to 3ft wave height which could cause some damage to one and a2t wave height those at a state
proposed you said the state has written regulations on land subject to Coastal Stone Flowage which talks about azone standards vzone standards and this new Coastal azone standard anybody's guess when and if
those regulations will ever be adopted but we can we can have we can have our own regulations we can throw out the 25 foot and adopt this limo instead and that is what Shannon from the county had recommended so right so if we dit the
the 25t adopt this we would be ahead of whatever the state comes up with correct so if if and when they enact that we'd already be there correct and we be in alignment with which okay I mean it makes sense yeah I
mean I I'm just trying to follow because you know the whole thing that's confusing me is about uh you know all these regulations that have been in the works for 5 years and probably for the next 5 years technically they've been in the works for I've been hearing about these not spting 25
years but that's exactly uh Jamie but I mean that's why we we had you remember people arguing well you're your 25t Zone only has to do with the width of the pencil that's why it was and I'm like no
it makes sense I said a wave doesn't come in this is why well oh it was uh Mike bcel he said what are you talking about the Colgate Shield he's not old enough to remember you guys are old enough there used to be an ad if you had
Colgate yeah if you brush with Colgate it had a shield and you could knock on it right right right well there's no Shield right and so it makes sense that if it's a flat area the waves are going to go in well that's what this limlaw
incorporates no and I I I think this is a far more rational um right than an arbitrary 25 than an arbitrary 25 ft because I'm inclined to think that the arbit to your point the arbitrary 25 ft was the
translation of a pencil Mark I mean well it may have been but it made sense yeah but that was the initial reason that we put them in we don't have any idea reason why yeah but this has much more R just because there was a conspiracy
theory that said that that's why we had it doesn't mean that was the reason well it doesn't matter whether it was a conspiracy theory it made sense from our standpoint and I think this makes more sense so I would agree let's replace the
25 foot offset with this Li and besides which anybody building has to do it with the building code right yeah so it makes sense to get and that's what Shannon said is it's the same goal this is just far more accurate it doesn't apply to every property there are distinct properties and I gave you guys the links
if you want to check on those and kind of see what it is and our Engineers are already putting limo on the we're asking for cuz some properties are changing drastically even if one square foot in the coing to Shannon
whole and the new maps are far more far more precise Y and we also have certain Engineers that have told us that even though and Jamie correct me if I'm wrong um you have until June 30th to build under the 9th or the 10th edition or the
10th or 11th I'm not quite sure um we have certain Engineers that have already told us that they are really recommending to their clients to build under the new building code which takes these Coastal a zones into that's usually the way it is but but you
know to the state's credit I mean they they just give you that overlay so that because not everybody ready understand it's like you said like these these these regulation changes they're talking about been talking about it for so long that we've all like kind of ignored it
because we know if it ever going to come come to be all of a sudden it comes to be so now they're giving you the latitude um but often times the new process is is really it's it's more beneficial to the and that's the owners and that's what the engineers are
telling them and for this for us it's it's really simple we we want to just adopt this and and abandon the 25 and then we're up to speed and unless they change it
but no I agree so so that's kind of simple and and I have to say I want to say on record that you know I appreciate that Shannon came and did that did that presentation um I was really disappointed that I couldn't make it um but I didn't want to share the play with
all of you uh well thank you well thank we appreciate that um I did not you I did watch the recording and then Shannon you shared the the the PowerPoint yes so that that was really helpful so Shannon thank you
um and it just simplified everything I mean because it's you know it can be overwhelming when people some of these people read this but I know like I guess I shouldn't say names one of the engineers pointed out to me that you know they're just they're moving forward with that in mind because it's just it's
just easier in the long run and I have talked to a bunch of builders that are just you know they're just going with the new code right out of the gate and and and I know in my experience you know where I work we always did that just so our our regulations need to come up to
speed with the new code yeah okay we'll work on that for you and we'll also be updating for the AE flood zone they've raised it another foot above Bas flood elevation so we'll keep as well as so we have to TW
our base what were we not two feet above the base where is the RS or there was one now it's two there somewhere but I think wasn't the building it's three one and now it's
two well well them is one and then we always added but we were two now we're having two so so we going to go to three it's three total so the theme is one and us we used to be one mass and then they it's changed in
the new code for two so it's total three so AE was old code was one foot above base flood new code is two feet above base flood correct Jamie yes yes yep and then vzone was 2
feet of Base flood and the new code is 3 fet of base and our regulations had a set too so our regulations need to catch up with the new building H Vet do we want to exceed that I mean we
originally we exceeded it in other words the regular the building code was one we were two yeah and if according if we go to four in a vzone that's really I think from a and correct I'm going to I'm going to defer to you and to Jamie I
think you're going to have consistency with I mean you're going to have we're going to start there people are going to start butting up against the height restriction in zoning so what I like to tell people is we're always pushing you up and Zoning is pushing you down and so
but that's something zba is working on changing their regulations I I read that recently that because of this um yeah yeah people are getting kind of squished between kcom and ZB okay so I don't know what zba is doing thank you for letting
us I don't know zba or planning I think it's zba okay I can check with zba and we'll make a note to check with CBI yeah talking about that yeah yeah okay I mean they have to think about it because it's you know Fe if you have to follow
FEMA you're kind of forcing people to do something that you know and it and it's so unusual because when you get on surf drive and there there's houses that are on grade and then just to be out of the flood there you know some of them are 15t up so that that's an extreme you
know and then still to maintain the 35 ft um you got 18 ft in height to work with that would be tough so ceilings you know what's the goal um I
mean are we trying to make it as desirable as possible for people to live on stilts and you know in in a Zone I mean frankly we should be discouraging this is the trickle down because you know the basic premise was simply you
get people out of the flood point which sounds simple enough right but then you create other problems because of the hey so it's a trade off Life's a tradeoff so if they they just can't go as tall on their
building I mean you know I I don't have a that doesn't trouble me at all I understand from the standpoint of somebody wanting to build a house on the ocean you know they want to they you know if you Lo if you're forced to go
higher to to base elevation yes and one rationale is it makes sense to raise the elevation of the house but now does that mean that you can raise the elevation of every house all over town or do you can
say only in a viso in my mind you know we should we do what we want and if we want to make it 4 feet or whatever the number we want to we feel comfortable and appropriate that's fine and if that means that they they they can't build a
tall a house because of 35 foot regulations that's too bad they have a choice they don't have to build there so I mean I don't mean to sound like a k kerin but kerin but I am all
right moving on well Courtney makes a a a good argument from a staff perspective over the years our 25t offset has been problematic as it has not matched up with the building code um
so I would recommend we stick with the building code three and two with FEMA three and two so that we are not at odds and when we're reviewing building permit something that 3 I understand what you're saying Courtney and from you know
a coastal resiliency standpoint I agree with you but from a regulatory and practical um when we're implementing these regulations it it would be much fair to the residents if we all were in a line we need to be on the same page
correct yeah we can't things are complicated enough without correct you know being different from one end of the building to the other yeah we you know that's that's just not practical it it has caused um you know some issues over
the years with the 25t offset so I'm I'm pleased to see the board is is open to removing that and adopting you know vzone standards in a coastal azone I think it makes much more sense um and uh that's all I have to say on
that I I you know I I I don't disagree with that I mean being consistent with all the codes across the board is good but what that doesn't change my point I don't think zoning has to increase the height of their buildings to accommodate
a few people and want to we're not make their decisions attended public meeting at zoning and express your thoughts I might okay all right we're on their enemies list just the last couple of
points um if we are to update the RS to B Zone standards for all Coastal a zones sorry um if we're going through the process of updating the RS to include all Coastal a zones with the same velocity Zone standards and requirements that we have we would recommend not
attributing that to dock regulations just yet um once you're able to view the maps through the links you'll notice there is a lot of the finger ponds that are going to be impacted um we haven't done the math and calculated it yet but
I mean over there it almost be like a moratorium on do nothing else be allow so you're saying it might be too drastic right now with the docks okay you're not saying the co they if it's a coastal a
Zone they can't do anything we're saying not at this time the V Zone the we need to look into it yeah yeah fine yeah as Alysa said a lot of these Coastal azone lines are sitting right on
um we just need to do the calculation of how many properties would be impacted and it it'll be once we took a a closer look at these maps at this time I think requiring docks not doing a Prohibition a docs in a coastal a zone is not what we are
recommending at this time only because we need to do more research on it I mean before we can make it clear and those finger ponds have the when there's a big storm basically stuff
funnels up those so would so the limo would be is I mean totally appropriate right for for a house but I I agree I think you're on the right again at this time we will cave at
that that our recommend recommendation may change with more research but again we strictly talking about house construction okay um one of the last points that Shannon discussed is that in accordance with building code
um there are some changes that are being made um so new construction like brand new on develop lot or substantially improved structures so maybe like a raise and rebuild situation um if they're in a dune we don't have a lot of
houses in Dunes right now but if they are in a dune and they are rebuilt uh up on piles um they are not allowed to have an enclosed space so any enclosed space at all any you're in a dune it impedes
the migration of the Dune is what she described so we might I remember cases discussion it can only be accessible with an outdoor staircase or something correct yeah there aren't many cases like that in town I can think
there are two places um that this would have impacted greatly had it been into effect at that time um but that is that's FEA so just something we should have written in there like I it won't impact
too many areas but to be consistent y we should include that um we've always brought that up in meetings correct that the Dune has to have room to migrate yeah there was another point about no new constructions word of high tide and
talk about some historic structures that are exempt that probably won't apply to us much but just to be consistent it should also be added in there you know let me let me ask a question about this there's only one property that I well actually two properties that I remember
one was in bour pond and it was old do you remember this one do you remember this it was in bour bour pond bour Pond it was an old like fishing house that was rebuilt partially in the pond now
you know what I'm talking about mhm but I don't think we have that many I mean I mean we it hasn't this is years ago I mean we allowed it because it was Jamie a rebuild this is structure in
West with Arbor no I know exactly which structure B is thinking oh you're talking about the the boat house looks like a boat house yeah it was a boat house that used to be deep enough that a boat was pulled into it yeah of course now it's not then there's one across the
street I know it's landb yeah and one out at on on penan point there's a boat house like that okay so if you go back we go on and I can jump in yeah um so that kind of Recaps what Shannon was discussing at
the last um Gathering here um so we've kind of already talked about eliminating that 25 foot offset the other outstanding vzone topic that we had on the agenda was talking about that enclosed space so
we've already covered in a du there can never be an enclosed space um you guys have talked about maybe limiting that to a square footage or a percentage and actually defining that and putting that in the regulations uh like I said before I did put together some examples I don't know
if you've had time to review them um so we can always come back to that another day um so if you look at your um staff notes from December page two under 2 C Alyssa gave us a couple of different examples of um
houses um which one I'm sorry what one uh we're going um regulation review meeting the December 19th meeting yeah yeah so if you go to page two I mean yeah page two 2 C we gave you some real world examples
from your um from some of the last five or so years of on I remember Square you know what the square footage of the structure was what the enclosure square footage was what that
percentage of enclosed space to uh building footprint was so if you'll review that we can talk about it enclosures at the next meeting because Jamie what what percent I know that was we almost done I think I don't know
why are we almost done are we almost done no oh no no we're still thinking on my part okay no you 3:30 to 5:30 not 3:30 to 4:30 it takes us an hour to recap after
the last meeting so we have new topics we're we have new topics how [Applause] exciting so page um so we go anywhere from 15% to 43% to 11% to 133% it's all
over the map basically what we're finding out is the larger properties the percentage is smaller for the smaller properties the percentage is larger because we had always started at 200 correct and that's the debate do we want to stay with a square footage of 200 or
a percentage of the overall footprint typically the bigger the house the bigger the house footprint needs a bigger footprint of why but then you've also come you've
also come across not only utilities aren't there the utilities have to be up Jamie's talking about the elevator correct yeah well yes the elevator if the higher the house goes the the more stairs are required yeah which takes up
a bigger footprint so there's that to consider too there's also consideration that this board has done recently where you're you're allow allowing an enclosed space for storage I mean granted we have
realistically someone cannot store their patio furniture on the roof so I mean this board has you know recently allowed not only the enclosed space for a small mud room a staircase an elevator if be
but also a space for storage of bicycles patio furniture kayaks right and that's how this whole thing started correct I may I make a comment this is a social comment I hate using percentages because
the person who has a lot gets a lot gets a lot and and mine's based on on salary so you're in a place where say I might be old days I might be getting 50,000 you might be getting 100,000 and it's a
10% increase so you get 10,000 more I get 5,000 more why is that fair I I hate percentages well that's why we're having the debate so so okay so with what you're saying that's fine we've always
used 200 as a base so I really don't mean to turn my back on um I can hear you so the question is do we want to stick with 200 should we we we know 200 isn't enough right it's not enough for a
staircase and a and an elevator preaching to the choir that's what we just said yeah 200's not enough okay so that's why I'm guilty that I said should it you know would it be easier to come up with a percentage Yeah you don't
agree with that that's fine then what do we come up with for a square footage if we want to go that route so I mean we have to debate both of it but we need to decide if it's going to be a square foot and then or a
percentage Cory put your hand down I'll call on you when I'm done okay so if it's going to be a square foot what is that square footage going to be ording so um if we decide what
if we want to go with um allowing enclosed space on an elevated structure I'm just throwing out some things to be cons considered the purpose I would assume is as this has always
been the assumption that you want room to put a staircase in uh and if possibly you want room for an elevator so in a normal course the thing how much space does that take up now
what determines how much space that takes up is how much of the house is elevated because if you have if you got to go up 13 ft as opposed to eight you're going to have to build a more extensive stairway that's going to take
up more that's the Dilemma um but like uh like like Betsy I far more inclined to look at a square foot number and because I think otherwise
somebody comes in and wants to build a 8,000 squ foot house and you say they can have 15% enclosed yeah right they're going to have a big yeah I and perhaps what we need to do so we stick with
square is to bring is to find an a sympathetic architect who can come in and and say okay what this is how much space you need to build a code compliance stairway
that's X number of feet allowing for when you open the door say four feet before the stair run that kind of stuff and come up with something like that and say that's that's how many square feet we're allowing I i' be far
more inclined to do that than than to do a percentage so then we need to do we need to figure out what what the average stairway is going to be the average um elevator what we're going to allow for storage yeah exactly so storage I think would be the easiest thing to tackle
before we do enclosures I I said storage might be the easiest thing to tackle since we just allowed you know sheds cannot exceed 200 square ft so the board can go anywhere from 100 square fet which would be a 10x1 enclosure for outdoor
equipment up to 200 ft and that would just be your storage area and now you have to go in closed space yeah I don't think we need a sympathetic AR certainly the these must be in the building yeah the building department must have plans for all
these things that were already permitted right when when you first started saying that what I was getting out of it was that you were saying we're allowing a 200t shed so we should start with 200 square ft for storage in this enclosed area go hold on okay then add
the stairway and the that is what in an elevator but I'm not sure that's what you're actually saying you're actually saying there could be a separate storage area a separate shed no I'm just saying the board can break it out because we have we have one
example Moses roads has two different areas they have their enclosure to access the structure and then they have an enclosure for storage you can combine that you can separate that but I think
for total footage for a total square footage right but we go right back to what what would that square footage be corre so again what I got out of the you're saying two we're we would say 200 squ F feet per story so just hold on to
that for a second so 200 is our starting point then an elevator is X so to throw a number just say it's 50 ft stairway is going to be different because again the higher you go the longer the run you can
only go 11 ft without breaking that stairway up by the building Cod meaning instead of having a straight run of Stairway that's that's you know 3 ft by 11 ft it is now going to be 6 feet by 10 ft because you have to add a
landing can't we just come up and say if it's what give if it's not that high you don't have to break it with the landing you have that many square feet for if it's bigger you can have more square
feet well it's almost like we got to we've got to figure the worst case scenario almost but everybody gets the worst case scenario I if you're not going to go up that high you don't need all that extra space but why would you take the extra
space say that again why would you take the extra space he wants to give the a maximum amount I want to give the minimum two values yeah okay I mean you can make it a sliding
scale obviously because if the only got to go up 8 ft you know they don't need as big a Stairway run and all that is somebody going up 13 but you know do we that that comes up so now we're right back to the where where we are where
we're just figuring out on every project yeah um I let me give you an example so nine Sycamore um very small lot we allowed 200 so the total footprint of the structure was 630 ft we allowed
27 um 270 ft enclosure which is 43% of the property 43% of this thing if we add and I I mean I just threw that out for storage because I mean we've been talking about storage lately if we added
200 square feet for storage which is a lot I mean we may want to reduce that in a vzone you're talking almost the 80% of that that footprint of that property was going to be enclosed you may as well have two you may as well have Breakaway
panels you almost enclosing the entire space so as much as I understand you don't like percentages yeah as alista said proportionally that might be the way to go but I'm going to give it to my two Builders here but if you did the
15% on that 630 you're giving them like 75 square feet of space that's not enough that's not enough and that's not enough to build an average stairway anything else or anything else
so that's the problem so that's where why don't you say you can have a Stairway you can have a elevator depending on what's I mean somebody's not going to come in with an elevator for 10 people right well or we say you know it's it's
square footage and they can use it for whatever they choose so maybe they have an elevator in L of a storage shed I mean you know it it's not for us to say what it's going to be used for but if we come up with but it's the same principle
if we say 200 square ft you use it for the stairway you use it for an elevator you use it for storage whatever you want you can use a ladder to get to you well you can't legally but you know I don't know I I don't know if it's something that Jamie and Courtney you want to fiddle with on
some paper and and see what you can come up with as much as I again Betsy I think percentage wise it might be better I I don't 8,000 square foot house to have
43% that's ridiculous impct absolutely I'm not saying 43% I'm not saying 43% I'm just saying that well these people only had a 270 which is a modest correct so why should the 8,000 have
more than 270 just because they happen to have unfortunately we did ask um Shannon if any other town so we could try to get get some sort of um you know maybe maybe the way
around um just kind of like to compare to other towns but um we are the only um town on the cape that is currently requiring open piling so she was very pleased at that because I was like oh could you give me some other Town
example she goes yes I can thousand and she were the only ones what that require open pilings and only allow for small and closed space maybe the way cuz we were fall in the building C maybe the way around
this is to again rather than trying to nail it down we say what is the purpose of this enclosed space am let me follow me through what's the purpose of this enclosed space the purpose is to have a Stairway that need
code that allows access to the second floor we we need 3 or 4 feet of landing at the bottom of the stairs before you exit so you allow that you will we will allow an elevator whose maximum interior
dimensions are X + Y right and we will allow room for uh one coat closet or something and and that all these things must meet ACC be
according to the code so the code determines like the rise and run how big of and then you that's what you're allowed and then you say okay put all the pieces together and that's how you're allowed you could also do um as
Li just said we could do something like 200 200 square ft or blank percent whichever is greater whichever is lower something like that so it gives a I like
Corney suggestion yeah what I'm trying to get to is what's the function of a closed space and if you are saying you are allowing a Stairway to meet that meets code and you can say that you can you can dictate that the stairway can be
no more than 4 feet wide because you have it by code it has to be 3 ft but more often times you have entrance way stairs cases that are like four feet wide so I can see allowing a staircase
that's 4T wide that meets Cod to allow for an elevator that does not exceed X Plus y Square ft and um a place for a landing and a and 100 that that meets
code in other words typically you you have to have like three feet between the last step down to the ground and the entrance way am I correct Jamie no I I don't know whether it's 3T or 4 feet but it's you have to allow for certain
landing area so if you say you have to allow for this you have to be the stair then let the architect come in with a design we look at the plan and say okay B you know we can even take it over to the building par and say does this
design meet code and if it meets the code then that's what we allow in other words what's what is code allows you to enclose the entire structure with breakway panels no no no no no talking about there a Stairway is a
Stairway constructed to meet code by this plan not what does it allow I'm saying what are the elements that we want to allow being closed rather than taking a percentage or assign you're going to have to have a Stairway you're going have to have a landing area those
have to meet code you you want to put an elevator in the elevator has to probably has a minimum size right so or you and and that's what determines the size of the enclosed space and that's going to
vary with how far it's elevated off the ground but at least you've got a formula for determining this and when we when we have a project like that come in front of us we have to an architectural set of plans that meets the code and then we
can and it takes that hasn't been the problem the problem has been the storage huh so we'll give X number no I mean that we can say square footage and now the other 150 200 suppose I that's what I was saying
earlier what Jen was saying was that you know the do we say it's the utilities plus the 200 ft of storage that we would have otherwise allowed yeah okay yeah yeah and like you said these it all have to be together or
can these be two separate spaces and I'm not saying 200 squ F feet is storage on every on every property I'm just I I just threw that out because we were talking about sheds and storage that's all I mean we could do 100 square feet of storage in say 100 15 200 so um
and just on that point but you have to allow the 200 minimum to be fair with what you allow for everybody else not necessarily you're in a velocity Zone you're in a completely different area in a high Hazard area you're you're subject to a
three foot or greater wave height you are not like everybody else you're in a much more um I don't want to say dangerous but hazardous area so you you
you put a formula in there for the amount of area while for close storage based on the Z the flood zones those are all examples we can come up with more of them theask Road that's brand new they just had it I asked I asked these
questions the AR engineer during a meeting and it was well over three and he really didn't have the answer he was supposed to get back to me I wasn't there at the next meeting whether he get back to us or not but 2 months ago we said 200 ft is enough minimum a minimum amount a minimum amount for an elevator
and a stairs and then plus whatever we were going to allow him 100 150 ft for storage the masket meets that yeah he did come back mask came back at 293 290 for the elevator stairs elevator
stair stair and storage all right so it's 328 here so 290 so he even cut it back a little and that's again that's a new example of a house that's just gone up so I think we you know we're in the ballpark with that with with that example yeah that example was not the
one that recently came before us that was the prior one the one that recently came before us with Tim and Tom Lee a little more than 328 that was that ended up at 293 I just wrote that order okay yeah that's what they did because I was confusing because those two houses are right across the right across the street
I have a question for you is there a minimum size of a residential elevator codewise yeah I don't believe so I mean but we wouldn't want put a minimum elevator in for one person with a family that's going to access from the
ground to their first floor house we wouldn't want to put a little a one person thing where you push a button or a driveway or wellway or whatever well I mean a lot of Manufacturers aren't going to yeah you know they're going to have minimum restrictions because of how they
have to build it what size is that elevator well I guess that's that's that's a commercial that's you know be interesting to what are the dimensions of a normal residential yeah elevator I mean I've only I've only been involved
in putting one in and if I remember the it was like three and a half or 4x4 no I think they're well there are different sizes I mean I think something like a 7 by S 8 by8 is probably pretty standard for residential it' be worth
checking on you know um yeah so couple of my houses that I take care of have elevators and I would say they're on the small side they're probably 6 by six but I also think you're going to get
a different I think you're going to get a different elevator external than internal you know what I'm saying yes so so so an elevator that's going to be built into a shaft for uh exterior exposure like what we're
talking about is probably going to be a little bit bigger because everything has to be self-contained in that shaft so if you have you know where if it's internal like this it's built with I mean this is still built within a
shaft and it's probably a a cement block shaft um but it's still it's an interior based so yeah I mean it's been a while I did one elevator and it actually went into this kind of a thing but it was all
within conditioned space so basically the only thing was it was a frame wall a normal frame wall with some then there were I think it's a double layer of 5/8 sheetrock inside and then the the box and it was like three or four inches
between the the double layer sheetrock and the and the car but that's why we split here is because is this Dimension internal external because in this case they would have to be in a concrete shaft would they I mean wouldn't this I mean I'm assuming
that if we enclose a Stairway that's going to be conditioned space is it not yeah you enclose a Stairway it's the only thing I believe the only thing in the building code correct me if I'm wrong Jamie is the only thing that is not Breakaway panels
is the elevator Sha everything else is Breakaway panels even in where the stairway even where the stairway is a Stairway doesn't have to be enclosed an external stairway does not have to be enclosed by
code they don't have to be okay so I was that I was under a we want people to have them enclosed because it's they don't into their house I mean yeah when there's ice and snow when right it it just that's where Common Sense has to Comm in into play but technically it it
doesn't have to be enclosed but an elevator is different cuz it's a mechanical system we don't have to get this answer right now no we don't no I think we're dealing conceptual so we can just find out if it's if it's good we can Dimension some we can talk to a
couple of Architects and get that I'll make a call to a company that we use I can get a average than Associated isn't there an Associated elevator well it's one yeah that's good I'm just trying to get the concept
down and I think it's more what he what what fits in the space and meets code and that's besid minimum amount of yeah I I personally just seems to be easier mul either a square foot or percentage I just think well the problem is again
like you say if it's a 8T rise versus a 16t rise you can have a figure say yeah you just these are the elements how many square feet and if somebody comes in with a very fancy staircase will say
no yeah they I mean it takes I mean it's their application proc have to come in and we have to keep in mind the code implications like I said because the higher the stairway the more right right right which is fine know and that's going to take more space yeah which is fine
you very likely to your point if you got to go up a certain number of feet you got to put a landing at halfway up and break it well that's fine so that now that gives that person an option to put a closet underneath to go grab some water even in
a even in a standard residential stairway if it's your main entry you you probably want to have a landing anyway yeah I mean because it's you know you're coming in you know if
it's your main entry you know you just don't want it to be a you know a hall you know one straight run you know so I just think of you're coming in and you're soaking wet and you're covered with ice and
snow so you need if they have a landing they can put storage underneath it yeah yeah I mean the stairway no matter how it's built you can take advantage of the of the the space underneath that's why I like I think I think rather than dealing with
percentages or a fixed square foot I think we take based on the I think we got it we got it yeah I mean and that's a debate we have to have well but not
today all right so what's the next um so the third topic yeah that's kind of a new topic which I wanted to discuss but it has to do with the velocity Zone that's kind of dictated by by code what's the what's the topic the when to require a house to
be elevated on so this came about because of a recent project you had on for casset where the house was 15 ft away from an A roading Coastal Bank and it had it was a small house it had a large a deck in a shed and what they did
is they enclosed the deck and the and they took the shed they made the shed go away and they use that square footage and so basically they ended up under that 200 square feet in your velocity
Zone RS which you would allow without having the building be raised on pilings you were going to start to see more and more of these types of projects and and Courtney was chairing that night uh Jamie we I know we you have the plan but
we can send it to you again yes it was allowed under the regulations but as we stated in the hearing it wasn't a very smart move we did talk to the Building Commissioner and Ron I know you had a question about
this Courtney wanted to see that that um that addition on pilings yeah and the Building Commissioner did agree that he was not going to allow that Frost wall that that addition needed to be on on small pilings and when I say pilings Jamie but not El Tu it was an elevator
this structure was literally 15 ft from that salt marsh and it just raised some red flags to me that well more importantly would be the height of the flood zone no it's in a Visa a vzone it was in a Visa no was it
I'm trying to remember now was it less than 200 square feet yeah it was right at 200 because they enclosed the deck so it just caused me paused and it was one of these examples that I wanted to bring up to the board that said yes
it met your regulations but if we really do want to start making these properties a little bit more resilient to se level rise then we may want to think rethink that 20
enclosed space whether it be you know um you're not allowed to enclose the deck I don't know the answer I'm just saying that this particular property really caused me some concerns because it was 15 ft away from the
bank so why couldn't we say I don't know let me think a second the B I want yeah I mean it was it was it was awkward because they they took advantage of a gap in our regulations actually I don't
think they took advantage they kept it under 200 square fet the point is they follow the regulations they follow the regulations so we want to change the regulations so do we want to just eliminate the the the enclosed Bas piece of it that that is what I'm
saying or do you want to say say if you're within a certain linear footage to a bank you can't do this and you have to elevate I don't know the answer I'm just bringing it to your attention that it caused me some concern during the hearing um and
it's something that we need to just think more about I want the board to go back look at that plan we can email you the plan tomorrow um and just think about it and see if this is something that you want to allow because you will see more of these how many well okay so that was going to be part three of my
question so how many of those have come up recently not many this is actually the first one that was that close that whole stretch they're all small homes right on the water correct so if this guy gets away with it the next guy's going to do it yeah right yeah so so I mean I have
no problem rebuilding that house in that footprint my issue was that house should have been elevated up on pilings it should have been raised and elevated up on pilings and what that didn't that fall in under
50% they are saying it is yes yeah that was cl that's a Gary that we haven't quite gotten there yet but that is on Gary's radar because that's the other thing is if it um you know if it exceeds the 50% they'd
have to do it anyway so but this board can say if you're within a certain linear footage of a a bank a marsh or anything like that then you need to go up on pilings we don't the 50 % rule is a building code rule it's not regardless of it closed
yeah yeah I think that's should be cool and we could you know right now we have the 200 square feet but it could be e either or and or yeah it's something I want this forward to think about we'll send you the plan tomorrow and think about it if it's moving closer you guys
thought about like would it be a 2550 foot buffer the habitable space moved closer the habitable space did move closer so we just need to put the word habitable in there so if they had a deck and they they're went close which gets
back to what we call creep right Court it was 15 ft away I know again I have no problem with that house being in that footprint as long as that house was elevated to vzone standards okay yeah but and there it is
there it is yeah I can't imagine that's not going to exceed 50% I don't I can't either but again we will be watching ing that building permit but again it's something that it recently came up we're talking about vone regs I thought it was worth a discussion since the board had
really was concerned about it during the hearing you remember that you were there Ron right yeah yeah so I mean it was it was close oh no I saw it I actually Ron and I were there at the same time but um but I wasn't at the meeting so I wasn't on
the Quorum but I remember seeing the property seeing the plans and and yeah and I agree it's it's like it's right there yeah um and that's a perfect example of a house that should have been
elevated on piling exactly not simply on pilings but actually El elevated to vzone construction standards absolutely again I have no problem with the house being in that footprint but it needed to be elevated and so again it's something that going forward I think it were into
a discussion by this board and so that we don't have that scenario again as we are you know thinking of ways to make our properties more resilient Jamie you may be tuned into this better than I because I'm sort of out of the building business for the
most part and that is there was a game for a long time that was being played which is um Renovations uh by bit by bit so somebody pull a permit for some small renovation
less than 200 ft get it done sign off then they then they'd go and do another one and they stayed under the 50% the 200 ft is cumul cumulative it's the 50% the 50% that's that's the
um the loophole yeah is that still being exploited the 50% I mean to be honest with you years ago lost a job because of that because I came in and said oh we're gonna do we need to do this whole thing
and raise the house the guy didn't want to do it again 50% coining is a building code U regulation this board is does not have toere to adhere to that 50% right so that we just couldn't do
anything because it was right inside the regulations yeah we didn't have an option no so but I think we can can change the regulation to give this board an option so I would ask you guys to come up with a verbiage of what the setback should
be or enclosed or a combination okay and then hopefully we can WI a look down from there we will uh come up with something cuz yeah that's that one caused me some POS yeah
and like Ron said there there's there's 100 others up the coast so okay and that's all we have to think about because that's you know we've run out of land so yeah it's all these rebuilds now correct you know to see more and more and more of
that okay the mansionization of the coastline so and the rest of these we've already touched on outdoor kitchens in a V Zone new mitigation approved under an RDA and sheds so we will come up with
some something for you guys for the next meeting I will make sure that in addition to emailing you the staff notes the night before we will have them printed in case some of you forget them what's the going what's the going consensus I appreciate that yeah we will
we will print them out what's the going consensus on the outdoor kitchens in a viso I was getting water what is the going consensus on outdoor kit in creating a draft special
condition for you to look at and then just getting your approval and we'll start implementing it because we discussed last time you were talking about threedimensional fixed items in the footprint of an approved two dimensional like patio space because that's where the vertical walls are
coming from um so which we can't approve in a V so we are seeing outdoor pizza oven in abuse oh I know we've seen it but we've already made a decision they're just going to give us the language okay all
right what what was the General decision no no good okay so I know it was a lot to go over since we missed kind of January's meeting but we're moving forward again next time we're going to the real lwh hanging fruit is the procedure section
so I'll like kind of slash and burn that bring it to you um things like our administrative review We we've changed that we changed the buffer Rags years ago but that never caught up the fee SCH things like that so ad administrative
items that need to be cleaned up in the procedure section um and then I mean we I think we're almost there we don't have a lot more I mean I think it was the buffer zone RS the land subject storm Flowage Rags the procedure Rags um
I I think we want to come back to you with some freshwater your freshwater dock RS I think need some some tweaking they follow in line The Saltwater dock Rags which requires a 3ft water depth as a
Terminus we're going to be going around and asking EMS Mees for the horsepower of each Pond and then coming up with something we don't really feel like a freshwater Pond let's say on Jenkins Pond or Wings pond or something like that really needs to to have that 3ot
water depth if it's just for a kayak or a yeah like a a little out booat a little rowboat or something but any like a canoe or a kayak we really don't need that water depth and we really do need to give people like the ability to have
these small kayak docks on some place like Jenkins Pond you most of those are in ponds that that don't allow motor yeah and and like a a shumit pond you you'll see you'll have a coastal plane Pond shore on low water gears you're going to have a lot like very low water
and high water years you're going to have more water the the water fluctuates though there and it's really difficult to achieve that 3 foot water dep unless this dock is way out into the pond and we really don't want to see that a lot of the ones we're seeing and you've seen a couple of them on Jenkin Pond are
these little seasonal structures pipe structures that go in just for kayak access and we're just trying to make it easier for someone on these ponds to to achieve access to a water by kayak we'll bring bringing that to you if there's any other topics in
the regulations that the board feels needs tweaking please let us know and we will look at that but we are trying to pinpoint things where we as staff have identified need some work um and that's what we're bringing to
you I agree and I and and to the degree that practical let's get each one of these things you know one at a time knocked off the list and finalized um with a I mean a proposed summary and then we vote on it and then a summary
okay to start the next step but but just not to beat sheds to death but once we get that worked out what we want let's call it done yeah I mean the sh again it's difficult because the sheds then go into how much mitigation are we going to allow under an RDA and then so it kind
of It Go from one to the problem anytime you try to revise regulation so I mean we're trying to make this as streamlined as possible we trying to be as thorough for the board as possible I mean Alysa and F have done a great job recapping
these meetings for you so they're doing excellent work um so meeting we um have them on the third Thursday of every month so the next Thursday I believe is March 20th cuz I
do believe my husband H you say that something oh March 20th I'm going to miss 20th I believe it's March 20th yes let me double check
sure tomorrow morning 8:00 a.m. at at 8 A.M at Carry Lane tomorrow morning what 70 Car Lane 10 minutes maybe 15 at the max that's fine I have a half hour I need to pick my husband up at the airport in Boston so well we'll be
racing up route three together oh okay great but this just try to get your eyes this number 70 Carry Lane is a 70 Carry Lane as it is now yeah yeah okay that's the important thing is just you know this was asked for by um the Builder on
record he just wants one last effort to talk to talk to the board and we're going to see what we can do okay so we'll see whoever can make it at 8:00 tomorrow at 70 carry Betsy already know you can't um Ron you and I are on the
same timeline um even if you leave 15 minutes early I can guarantee I'll catch you on the right I was just going to tell you be careful 70 is on the ocean side correct yeah well no because it's an inland pond so yes it's on it's on if you're going
up Carol land it is on the left hand side you see on the Bay Side what on the Buzzard Bay Side it's it's or no it's if you go Carry Lane you go up and it's a loop a loop either right or your left it's a circle so what I'm saying is do I
go when I get to the where Loop start do I go left left is going to take me kind of in them right yeah that's what you want to do that's what you want to do yeah okay get to the bottom just keep going
around that's true thank you [Music]