##VIDEO ID:IpIZ5-OWoLg## [Music] good afternoon welcome to the uh January 16th meeting uh actually Gathering of the fouth Conservation Commission we have two guests today Shannon Holtz of Arville County what Cap Cod Cooperative Extension Cape Cod Cooperative Extension and Gary Street our esteemed Town Building Commissioner and they're going to explain some new regulations that are coming in um on lamb subject to Coastal storm Flowage so take it away all right thank you Betsy um and if it's okay with you folks I'm happy to take questions from anybody as we go is that okay okay um all right so uh I am Shannon Hol I'm flood plane specialist with bille County c c CER extension and whoie C Grant um been around for almost 10 years now um so so we're going to go I'm going to go through um some basic outlines of how flood maps work just to help lay the context for what is coming uh and then we'll talk a little bit more about some specifics um so we'll start with flood maps overview um so flood insurance rate Maps that's what uh the flood maps from FEMA are officially called so what are they um they delineate the Regulatory and non-regulatory flood planes so the 1% and the 2% annual flood plane so on the picture behind at the back of the slide there the blue is the regulatory flood plane it's the 1% annual chance uh that is what we regulate so that means that's where flood insurance is required for properties with federally backed mortgage if they're located in the blue areas it's where flood plane building code Provisions apply and we'll go over those very basically um where forthcoming D land land subject to Coastal storm fluid regulations will apply um and where some Town bylaws apply and if you want to adopt additional bylaws at the Town level you can do that as well um these Maps incorporate historic storm surge and flood observation simulated storms and waves they do not incorporate sea level rise um or any changes in storms that we're seeing so these are all backwards looking Maps so that's important to keep in mind um and that's why some of the regulations that we're going to talk about have been updated the way they have been to incorporate the fact that c ver is not included in these Maps um the data is collected on the ground at transex this uh tends to be of interest um we're going to look at the the maps live for the town of fouth but if you look um in the background here there are some dashed lines that's where the data is actually collected and then it's interpolated between those lines so they're not taking data on the ground everywhere that is part of why flood maps are imperfect because data is not collected everywhere uh these are created by FEMA and Consultants that FEMA hires they are funded by Congress Congress is the one to decide whether or not these flood maps uh whether fima gets enough funding to update flood maps these uh flood maps are from 2014 we do not have a date on when we will get new ones they are of course more than 10 years out of date now but it all depends on funding from Congress so uh there's not much we can do for these at the local level there is some other data yeah go ahead prior to the 2014 remember what the prior one was Prior one was 1992 yep uh they are supposed to do it in 5year increments it's supposed to be more frequent than that but it's expensive so uh that doesn't happen we do have other data at the state level now which is um more accurate in that it incorporate sea level rise um and uses the same regulatory flood plane that we don't need to go into details of how they figure it out but it's probabilities um so it's good to use both but none of that none of what the state has created is regul at this point um in any way but it is available if if that's of interest and it is in your in the town GIS it's already Incorporated um it's available to be viewed that way we've also worked with the Cape Cod Commission and created a viewer um that's adapted th those maps to make them more usable for us here on the cape so those are available through the Cape Cod commission's website as well any other questions on on those flood map Basics all right uh okay so uh there are different types of flood zones so Zone ve these are the highest risk flood planes also some of these uh slides were borrowed from d and czm this is one of them um so velocity zones are areas where we expect to see waves with uh 3 feet or greater so really substantial waves that can cause really significant damage um and they incorporate primary frontal Dunes as well AE zones um so these are are still areas of um often called the 100e flood although we try to actually stay away from that it's the 1% annual chance it's about probabilities just because it happens this year doesn't mean it can't happen for the next three years in a row um so the 100 year is a little bit of a misnomer but it's all the same 1% probability so we have this new Zone called the moderate wave action zone or the coastal a Zone unfortunately D and um the Wetland protection act use different terminology than FEMA and the building code so we have have two different terms for the same area so moderate wave action area is the same as the coastal azone so it's the portion of the azone where there is a probability of waves that have that are between 1 and a half and 3 fet so smaller than those 3 feet in the velocity zones um but still significant enough to cause substantial damage um so that's a new Zone we're going to look at that much more closely uh but that's a new Zone and it will be regulated in the new building code that becomes effective in July it's also part of the D regulations that are pending um yeah go ahead I'm just the question is to you do we like we did with the them of flood zone are we going to have to incorporate this into our regulations you so your regulations hopefully just refer to land subject of coastal storm Flowage and that is defined as the FEA flood plane so it's already Incorporated that way but you can add it to the book of Regulation so people know y good um so the limit of moderate wave action this is a line the limb wall line that again we'll look at that's the delineation uh between the quote regular a Zone and the coastal a Zone um that was updated in 2017 and added to the maps and Arosa Zone Management program reviewed those they did not think what FEMA had done was accurate so they redid them completely um in 2021 our Maps were officially quote updated with the corrected limit of moderate wave action line so that has been closely reviewed by the state um and then we have the minimal wave action area which is just where basically the the quote normal a Zone um where it's still 1% chance of flooding um but fewer than waves that are are lower than 1 and A2 ft and then we also have AO zones AO zones are pretty uncommon but I believe fouth does have a few uh these are overwash areas so typically it's where there's a um a seaw wall and then uh water can get over it and then can't get back out um or kind of some Dune areas where there's overwash um you have a few they're they're unusual we don't have to go into too much detail about those what's FY wanted to know if the overwash areas were in Woodle uh no I think they're along Buzzard's Bay but we're going to look at I would think probably around black Beach that kind of overwat right Beach yeah we can look at that um and what we're going to look at is the FEMA map service center so if you want to look at this later on your own that's the website mc. fema.gov um and you can just type in an address or just put in fam withth mass and it'll pull up the map uh this is just a um graphic depiction of the different flood zones helps you understand a little bit more um the way that they look um on the ground so you've got your vzone that's the closest to the Open Water then your Coastal a zone or the moderate wave action zone so those are the two zones that have waves that can cause damage and then the regular azone and then the xzone which is the the moderate risk flood plane which we do not regulate okay so this is what the limo or the moderate wave action Coastal a Zone uh looks like on the flood map so it's that black line with the black triangles on it um so this shows you all the different areas that are on the flood map so the white lines are the boundaries between different zones uh sometimes they'll be right next to each other so you can see kind of in the middle at the top there there's a vzone at the top and then an azone on the other side of that white line so those are the two different flood zones um the limo we talked about um elevations are shown on the map um those are important for Gary uh because those are what a of the building um code requirements are based on that's called the base flood elevation it's basically the expected height of flooding um uh yeah that all right question yeah go ahead so the boundaries between the um AE and de Zone yep are depicted by the white line but sometimes aren't they also depicted by the Lim line and you can't see the white line correct lines on top of it correct yep exactly yeah thought I was maybe losing it nope that is and yeah that that's actually that is a note um on this slide as well uh so right so when we get to the map service center from femma you can turn that on and off so that you can see and I can show you how to do that it is a bit confusing in a lot of areas the lmoa is the delineation actually between the vzone and the a zone so there is no coal a zone or moderate wave action area um even though there is a black triangular line there um so that can get confusing that's a great point so before we jump into looking at the flood maps I just want to give you an idea of what goes along with these different flood zones so the current flood plane regulations are in a few different places so the first is the building code um so building codes of course dictate how a building is constructed they dictate materials minimum elevations um and allowed use of the lowest level below those flood elevations that storage building access and parking in a zones uh you can have a solid wall foundation with flood vents no basement are allowed anywhere in the flood zone um if it's building new or substantially improved all utilities have to be elevated to design flood elevations uh which is 2 ft above the number that's on the flood map and that's new it used to be 1ot for a zones now now it's going to be 2 ft for a zones so then our Coastal a zones so this is what we're really talking about here this is brand new um any structure in a coastal azone has to meet vzone standards so in the areas where we actually do have those Coastal a zones and it's not just the delineation between the A and the V they have to meet the vzone standards as well so that's why I want to look at the flood map so that you can actually see how many structures might be um incorporated into that um and then what those vzone standards are you can build you can only build on pilings you have to elevate utilities no structural fill um there are some limited enclosures allowed underneath the structure but they have to have Breakaway walls and now they have to be 3 ft above that elevation that flood elevation that's on the flood map and that's new to it used to be 2 feet in V zones now it's going up to three and that's what when I was saying that our state regs are incorporating sea level rise that's how they're doing it is they're saying we have to build a foot higher anything built new or substantially improved has to be built a foot even higher to incorporate sea level rise RIS uh and this is a huge change well it's not really I oh yes it's one more foot um where you already had oh no that's what was already required for visone yes not for a Zone but this is going to be Coastal a zone right Coastal azone and vzone limo yeah right yeah that's what I'm saying this is a huge change but the areas that are affected they're not that big in town the thing is we have height limits on buildings as well so you add another foot these houses are already looking like shoe boxes another 3T another 3 ft now it's not another 3T it is 3T it's 3et it went from two to three extra oht it's another foot it's one extra foot yeah it sounds a little but it isn't Gary's the one who's going to have to he'll get all the screaming we too but so um with the height restriction I mean some town so I mentioned that towns can have local by laws some towns look at I know this is not what your Bard is responsible for but towns can decide to regulate the height restriction from the design flood elevation so that they're not penalized By changes to the building code so that they don't have to be squished down to become strange long shoe boxes so that is something that the town of fouth could consider doing and several other towns are looking at that as well did few several years ago have a town meeting article to increase the height to the ridge because of this I think it was because of the 2014 Change yep and it didn't pass people didn't care that the houses were getting squashed they didn't let the ridge get higher they ridges fixed from average existant grade y flood zone gets higher right building gets yeah I mean so personally I I think that the right thing to do in most cases is to allow the height to be measured from design flood elevation so that the houses can still look the same but right it's well do we want them higher or do we want a consistent architectural look um and town meeting often struggles to understand that yeah um one other thing I want to highlight is that in coastal Dunes there are no um enclosures allowed underneath the structure open piles only no obstructions and no footings can uh be in coastal Dunes um that's not new but just want to highlight that um I'm I'm on my Town's Conservation Commission and uh we missed that a few times before before I joined the board so um I like to highlight that for new construction enough preexist correct new construction yes all of this applies to new construction or substantially improved structures so 50% if you put 50% or more of the market value into improving a structure working on a structure then it has to be brought up to code is it Market or assessed um either one is acceptable um but the it's ideal if the town has a policy of which they would prefer to accept so uh one thing so the extension and the cape cut commission prepared a set of higher standards bylaws um that towns can can consider and one of the things that we recommend is using the assessed value because it's fairer um because some people can afford to get a house appraised and that is often higher than the assessed value um this way everybody's consistent but up to towns honestly realistically what most towns do is accept whatever the applicant wants to provide if they want to provide an appraisal that's accepted if they don't then assess is used or the market value is used if it was just recently sold um so any of those three can is it just a structure it is just the structure yes it is not the value of the land yep question what just primary structure right what do we do here assess okay and that is what most towns do and isn't it true that if you opt for the apprais value that becomes the new assessed value for tax purposes yeah you can't use it both ways right that and that's something else that can actually get complicated um some towns have tried to make that the formal official approach and the assessors just said doesn't it's not that easy um but it should be because obviously someone who's motivated to not have to come up this code right once the value of the structure is high as possible and the construction cost is low exactly exactly yeah um a couple other things in the building code no new construction seword of by tide um and there are some limited exceptions for historic structures um I've worked primarily provinc toown has been the the town to Ping us the most on this because they have so many historic structures in the flood plane but I know fouth does as well so I've worked um with the cape cut commission has a historic preservation specialist so the two of us work together a lot on if any any historic structures ever come up for you Gary we're happy to provide input on that we're going to have that one Gary with the yacht club quite [Music] Poss um in zoning um this does the town of pouth does need to update the flood plane zoning by law um to be consistent with State Man actually Federal mandatories um requirements but again that's not your board either but is this planning board uh I don't know who it is in it's in our Wetlands RS zoning no well right but there are some you do have everything in your Wetlands RS they put it in overlay zoning by too yeah there usually is so this would be in zoning um so there it's mostly administrative things um but it's a catchall for things that don't fit better in either in the building code or in Wetlands um and it it it's administrative there's some limited additional regulations beyond what most towns have um one that comes up a lot that nobody had is some restrictions on RVs um Gary I don't know if zoning is in your purview we can talk about this at some point of what needs to be added um to that um it's not this is not a big lift but there is zoning is another place where some flood plane regulations typically exist uh there was a state model flood plane byot in 2020 um I'm working with the state on a pending 2025 update because we've just found some things that can be better about it the plan handle okay ifications to they do okay all right well if anyone talks to the planning board at some point tell them they can bring me in happy to talk to them about it I'll let the town planner know I'm sure he'll great yeah great I should have appreciate yeah he appreciate this yeah yeah I'm happy to talk I I typically go through a Town's whole by law and then pull out everything that needs to be added or removed whatever it is happy to do that and I will say fth is the the only Town left on the cape who hasn't done it so we should do that um all right so new state level flood plan regulations uh so there are some new things coming I did already mention the new things in the building code that will become effective they can be applied now if the applicant wants to but they don't have to be applied until July July 1st um sorry this is very small um so D I'm sure you've heard is proposing um regulations or performance standards for land subject Coastal storm Flowage um so this is kind of a general description of them um they are they started working on these in the early 90s so when they will actually be released I have absolutely no idea um they took comments on them um and are are incorporating them at this point so in general um the boundaries are defined which is the same as um FEMA's um flood planes which we just looked at um it also encourages Consulting What's called the Massachusetts Coastal flood risk model which is what I mentioned that the state has additional flood mapping that incorporate sea level rise um that's that's a that's a different presentation we can maybe if we have time look at that but mostly just at this point know that it's out there um throughout land subject to clost storm Flowage um you can't redirect channelize or exacerbate flood waters um any vegetation must be preserved to the greatest extent possible um and Marsh and Coastal Dune migration has to be allowed so that has to be um Incorporated that if somebody is going to be building some sort of hard structure in the path of uh Wetland um or Dune migration that is going to no longer be allowed um within V zones so this gets a little bit complicated um D is if they do proceed with these regulations are saying no new buildings at all in V zones um I will say actually chadam has done this since the early 90s with very little issue they have been challenged in court and they won at the state supreme court level um so that's been successful so I expect it will continue to be that way for all of our towns um you within these RS it says you have to elevate existing buildings if you're substantially improving them 2 feet above Bas flood elevation that's already been superseded by the new building code so it's 3 ft it won't be ft but that's what's in these regulations because they started them so long ago that seemed like a good number then and that's from the low structal for V zones correct yep exactly yep um in a zones um in the moderate wave action area Elevate buildings to 2 ft above Uh current BF again that's um in the regular a Zone that's required by the building code in the coastal a Zone that's been superseded by the building code so basically P attention to the building code there um there are certain areas called Redevelopment areas um that are basically already areas that have been built up um in the vzone you can reconstruct un elevated piles if something substantially damaged or um substantially improved um in that moderate wave action Zone nothing can be more seaword than the previous development that would apply to V zones as well um you must improve existing conditions so less impervious surface more V reputation and you cannot increase the footprint of the building so this is all what is in what was proposed by D again obviously some of it has already been superseded by the building code so um that's already useless to us um and I have no idea what DP will release after they've received all the comments or when they will actually release it so so this is all you cannot increase the footprint of the building all land subject that's specifically in those Redevelopment areas that are there's a certain definition and it's it's for certain areas that are I don't I don't recall what the percentage is but it's like if you have a certain part of the parcel or neighborhood that's already developed I would honestly I would say don't don't worry too much about these yeah about any of them at the moment I thought you were saying for it like all the land subject Coastal storm Flowage no no increase in footprint I mean that's what 90% of our projects are yeah um I will say that in our so in so these are what the state has proposed the extension and commission has also created another set of performance standards and bylaws because we knew the state was a little slow um so we have some and we do recommend saying no more increase in footprint or a very limited increase so you can increase if they're trying to get the utilities out of the basement and they're failling the basement and the utilities need to go somewhere you can allow them to increase to put in a bump out um but otherwise we are saying um are offering it as an option to towns to prohibit increasing the footprint in the flood plane this is an area we know is a hazardous area and will be exposed to sea level rise so our approach is let's not put more stuff in an area that we know will have damage but it's up to the towns what you want to adopt I mean philosophically we agree with that mhm but I can't see that this will fly very well in the town yep and that's up to you so what what we've done is is created kind of an alart option of regulations that you can pick and choose from and you you don't have to choose those but officially it's not that no increas is not official in any entity corre correct d could make it official D could make it official probably getting a lot of push back and that's why it's taking forever right and same with with D's proposals for new buildings and V zones Yeah Yeah so basically this is what they put out there but don't worry about it too much I wanted to mention it because pieces of this could actually end up coming through but we don't know what will actually come through you could probably tell who the engineer that represents in room could have guessed all right so what we're going to do happy to have you m um okay so I want to kind of walk around the fouth flood plane um and show you what these areas look like so uh one so the question was before well sometimes the the lot whoa sometimes the line is this black line is the delineation between zones it is right there here you can see that this is vzone this is Zone B down here it says Zone a but if you go over here to our layers this is mostly for staff and our engineer um and then you can go down to limit of moderate wave action you can uncheck that and then yeah then it'll show um the only that's great when you have when it is the delineation between the two zones it can mess you up if it's uh if it's not if you have it shut off and you don't exactly exactly yes uh so I'm going to leave it on for now um so in this area it doesn't make a difference because it is the line between the vzone and the azone so absolutely no difference because of that line um so we'll just move around what's that other black line again the other black line is the shoreline yeah yeah um so you'll see here that for the most part so it's still the difference between the vzone and the a Zone here a Zone here uh I'm not going to go this much detail for the whole town but here's an area where it does make a difference um it's a little hard to see there but this is azone this is uh azone with an elevation of 13 this is azone with an elevation of 12 so this is an area where these houses that are in here were previously in just the a zone now they're in the coastal a zone that means any substantial Improvement to these houses or any new construction in this area has to comply with vone standard so again only built on pilings um all the utilities have to be elevated it's measured from the lowest horizontal structural member instead of the top of the bottom floor so it's just measured from a different place than it usually is for the a Zone um it's the open pilings is really the biggest difference and the increase in freeboard so they would have to be any any structure built in this area would have to be built to Elevation 16 whereas in this area it would be because it's a a foot lower Bas flood elevation is a foot lower and they only have a twoot free board for the regular a zone so they would be building to Elevation 14 and this one 16 because there's a 3ot free board and it's a higher Basel elevation breakway panels allowed in those are Breakaway panels are allowed yep not highly encouraged because they become storm debris but yes allowed generally we don't allow I mean not generally we don't allow breakway p in V zones in vzon yeah but the coastal a zones will have to be change this you'll have to change your record well that's what we're working on that's why you're here today Coastal not is all same and I'm not saying I don't agree I'm just I agree with you but right now that doesn't say that y so watch how quick I can change that one so here's another area um where we have azone on this side azone on this side so any an any structure that is cut in half so um this is clearer on my screen than for you but um if the line goes through the middle so for example this house right here the line goes through the middle you have to go with the more stringent um or higher risk flood zone so these houses even though the line goes through the middle of them they would be considered to be in the coastal a Zone with the Baseel elevation of 13 not the regular a Zone with the Basel elevation of 12 so they would have to comply any great question yeah any portion even if one square inch of the house is cut by one of by a line from a higher um higher flood zone then it has to comply with the higher one yep so um there are a few more areas on this side of town um and you could do I mean your GIS folks could do and this this is not a bad idea for your GIS folks to do is to do um a quick analysis of where there are new quote Coastal a zones or moderate wave action zones um because again the line is often the delineation between the A and the V zone so it's nothing different but in some areas it does create these new zones so you could have them come up with the acreage um that's incorporated into these new zones so that you have a good handle on what's affected um but again this is the building code is state level regulation you have no control over that Gary has to enforce that so um there's nothing that can be done about that anyway so these are our this has been adopted it it becomes effective July 1st oh okay yeah we cover right yeah so I mean it was adopted in January but it's concurrent with the older build the prior building code until the end of June yeah correct thank you and no one has to build under the new code until July that's what the confir is so what would you like to do we can keep looking at areas in town I can answer more questions about this Zone would you show us some in Buzzard's Bay yeah I about 314 qu I feel like that's a trap and I shouldn't do that I don't know Jen should I do that should I haven't looked over there yet all right we do it outside it's like good Mike but isn't that that there's a li down down below there is but it so uh so this is also a good point the triangles here I'll zoom in the triangles point to the direction of the coastal a zone so they're pointing this way this way this way they're pointing toward the hazard and here it is so right here we have vzone and this is X so it's the delineation between zones I just question for this what that white what was oh you're right I didn't see [Music] that good thing you guys are watching me yeah you're right SP yep so that is uh what if there were anything to be built there that would have to comply with the new vzone standards which would be P supported breakway pile supported Breakaway elevation 19 and what about regrading and so regrading so so Phil in a vzone You by federal law you cannot use Phill to support a structure or elevate a structure above Basel elevation so structural Phill cannot be used in a vzone if you bring in Phil to regrade you can do that um but this is where I would put this on the Conservation Commission it's your responsibility to say put it back on the engineer and say you have to make sure that it is not going to increase flooding to any neighbors but that's always a tough of compensation it is because we always will say you can't displace the Atlantic Ocean by adding fil right right or maybe we'll dredge somewhere to Compass it yeah exactly yeah right right and yes there are different some of you land in different places on that um my concern on that is typically when there are a lot of dense of houses in a in a small area so there's a lot of density there then it increases the likelihood that it could cause problems for the Neighbors if it's if it's 3 acres and there's nothing else around then I'm not going to be too worried about it some places the natural slope is steeper and when you do a Redevelopment you're going to regrade and make it flatter so you're kind of like softening the impact because the wave might be able to True right but then you may also be allowing water to go further Inland so right yeah y do your neighbor on either side right yep all right so there are some other see no that's not oh there's one another little one over here is another Coastal azone it's very small what's that white line so yeah so that white line well you're going beond BR well this white line shows the difference between this a Zone right and this V Zone y so you were asking me about well oh down here in the bottom corner this one no bottom that one but bottom bottom left corner over here oh yeah goes all the way across yeah so that is a delineation between two different V zones where the Bas FL elevation is different so oh okay just vzone okay yep just vzone y uh so this one's 23 this one's 18 this one's saying much higher wave risk as you you're more protected in here that's what it's saying um but little pockets here yeah there lot little pockets um so here you've got another one uh that's another one that will that was not previously impacted they had to be aone prior now they'll have to be vzone standards sometimes I will tell you this this map sometimes just doesn't load at all uh thema can get overloaded um so sometimes you have to come back to it later I'm glad it's working right now um all right so if we maybe go up this way so we've got some more here but this is Marsh so you're not going to be building there anyway is my assumption unless you've got upin there um same thing here it is a coastal Aon but it's Marsh this SE would be impressing right there yeah so there is a lot going on here so much going on I'm I'm having a trouble here all right let so here I'm going to turn off limo line just to see where our zon lineations are so we've got a here this is a as well so uh so this is an area where so this is azone in here so this is all Coastal a um this is V this is also V so this is just the delineation this is funny when they have these circular ones um so in here is actually the coastal a Zone um and out here but there is a Zone break in there this is a this is quite the flood map they don't usually look this complicated well complicated area yep so same thing over here we' got another one here um this one's mostly Wetland but looks like maybe a little development down there over here and another one um like to see what U wild haror new silver looks like yeah keep going up Shannon has a hard stop at 4:30 so she can get back to her town to be in her Conservation Commission meeting so I guess um that's where you wanted to go so it actually doesn't uh hold on I have a teeny tiny send this link to all of you so you can it yep you can look on your own I will say here I'm just going to show you real quick when you pull up when you go to the map service center oops send they'll send us the link right I'm so I'm just I'm just going to show you they're going to send you here so you're going to have to put in F mass and then right here you go to nfhl viewer and that'll take you to the map that we were just looking at okay great right it's really interesting yes it is good we'll have a lot to talk about next month now our meetings are going to go for three hours yeah I already know thanks so much Jing and Ste about a certain thing I know you you're going to you're going to adopt you're going to make why don't you help us tell us what we should be doing I think you'll be talking about you know you have uh you're going to make the Limas are effectively going to be the same under the same regulations as your current veloces Z meaning in in F because of Bri you can't have any you can't even have breakway P unless be open underneath we allow for a small enclosure for mudroom elevator staircase but these areas that we've been pointing out that are not in a vzone but they're in a limo yep it seems the reason because of your philosophy that you will be making those like these ones so that might apply we haven't adopted that yet we haven't even discussed it he already feels it in his Bon I feel it and I also bet and it's probably makes sense to protect the environment I'm just telling you I'm not arguing I'm just saying this is probably you're and you're probably going and this is fine apply them to like docks like in these zones how you don't want to have docks in these zones these um limo we are he's giving you ideas well it's common sense if you're going to keep going that yeah yeah absolutely because they're subject to wave action put that down bets's making me make bets's Whispering notes to me that like so with with your you do have your your 25t set back from vzon is that correct vzone applies so one thing that you might want to consider is replacing that with the limo lines because that has already the the mapping the engineering the modeling has already been done with the Lim wall lines and I I if I understand your what you're trying to accomplish with that setback then this is a more accurate way to do that than just the straight 25 ft set back yeah and I explained to you why the rationale if you go to an X zone right with the X zone ABS ridiculous right right but but here where where the coastal a Zone creates Coastal a zones right it's doing that for you yep yeah but there might be so there might be some cases where you apply the 25 now that that 25 won't apply because probably a lot of places yeah so some people might suddenly not be subject to those correct if that's the way you go well I mean unless you keep that one in and add this one to it this is the most current it is engineered SL science approach to it right right so so my recommendation is to use this because of all the science behind it unless you have other other reasons beyond the potential for additional risk for that Shan and I had one question when you were talking about Ptown had a lot of historic buildings and you know they there's a different way they're kind of looking at things Y and Gary knows here in F we have the same issue um what do they do I mean what's do they get variances exceptions or historic structures are a whole thing unto themselves um the the there is an exemption to the building code that they don't have to completely comply if full compliance would negate their historic designation and it only applies to structures that are individually listed on the national register of historic places listed as contributing to a national registered historic district or listed on I think fouth is one of two on the cape um you have what's called a certified local government which means that you actually have your own historic designations that the town has created um um I think that that's correct that you have that so it could also be houses that or structures that are on that list but it only applies to those it doesn't apply to oh it's been here for 50 years therefore it is historic um so so what they they can do some different things it it is house by house um or structure by structure to see what makes sense within the historic context of that structure itself um and the architecture but so what we look at is what is it that makes that historic that designates it as historic is it the placement of the front door is it the style of Windows is it the Dormers is it does it have a slate roof um so it's whatever is listed in the historic designation as making it historic that cannot be altered if the foundation is not listed as what makes it historic then it can be elevated there are and and brought into compliance but there are aesthetic things that the the historic district commission can say well no we still want it to look a certain way um or there could be a whole group of historic structures that maybe they want to make them look a little consistent or having one way higher than the rest based on weird things going on with the flood zones would just really throw everything off um so there are sometimes considerations made for those things but it is a caseby casee basis um and it really has to be um it can the exemption can only apply if it would negate the historic um designation of and the reason I asked that there was so many historic houses that have cut Granite foundations which that's what that's part of their beauty is their their foundations and their beautiful Granite steps and things I mean but the I mean the other thing to balance with it is the reality that flooding is getting worse if we leave them in that location they will get flooded then that's that's also a safety health and safety risk so um there are things that that you can do that get really expensive like you can Elevate from the inside you can leave the exterior the same um and you can Elevate the first floor um and put in vents underneath that's an option but you have to have stairs that go up so it it it shrinks the space um but if the exterior of the house or the structure is that important to stay that is an option to make it safer from flooding um but also uh stay Within that historic character um we did release something called flood area design guidelines that are available to all of the towns and to um applicants um and Architects any anybody who is designing in these areas and wants to stay within the aesthetic um appearance to help with that so that's a detailed document all right all right any other quick questions I have three minutes this was great thank you very much for your T welcome thank you Shannon no problem all right leave you to it now we have Gary for now no now we have Gary for a few minutes um Gary I think um unfortunately the chairman wasn't able to make it today and he just wanted to know how you would go about I guess implementing this I mean I know you and I have had a discussion where they can choose what code to go to build under up until July thank you thanks J thank you you can me with any questions I'll be reaching out to you probably tomorrow okay thank you um and I guess he just wants to kind of a sense of how you're going to be implementing the viso standards in coastal Aon yeah you just Incorporated more structures that are going to have to come in plans in the zone okay so the tear down and rebuilds and V zones are much going to go away um and it's a greater area so okay could could you repe so if you if you're in a vzone currently with just say an un you know a house that's not compliant you tear it down you can no longer build it back up in that V zone is that what the new rate's going to be yeah that all right that's I just was want to be clear so that'll change a lot what a lot of tear Downs if you're in a view Zone and you raised it to the ground r z r you can't put it back you can't put it back how many of those do we get the that's what she just told that's what she just said no that's not what she said well that will happen with if these D RS go through but they haven't gone through yet well well I asked her that question specifically that's for new construction like if you do a tear on rebuild that's not new construction that's constru grandfathered structure but you would have to tear on a rebuild to the standards correct to the standards and in that same and in that same foot as currently proposed by D ni Julie what she was saying is you cannot if the D RS are adopted and they are pending they have not been adopted you will not be able to build new build in a vone a new build okay they do allow the section for redevelopment which was the section that says Redevelopment in a vzone you cannot expand the footprint but again those are pending they've gone through public comment they have not been adopted yet I I also heard that um until July 1st if you're in a limo but not a b zone so you're really in an AE Zone that has the limb in it right until July 1st you don't have to have you could apply for a building peral without breakway canels and things and meet the new standards correct like as of July 1st your brand new building wouldn't be correct some new you know if someone buys it I wonder how Insurance works like that do you know that Gary so let's say they were in a coastal a Zone and they like Mike just gave us the the example someone chooses to build under the prior building code and then July 1st they're not in compliance with the new building code how does that affect their insurance only going you covered up to $250,000 anyways under F Insurance okay all right so it would be it would benefit you and us if we just had a list of all the lots that are in this limo so that's a lot a lot interesting if if you had a building permit like that was issued today and you started construction today and you're in a limo but not a vone and you build your house and then like go to sell after it's buil maybe it's a speculative developer he goes to sell along to as a buyer and the buyer's lender wants an elevation certificate someone like me would fill out that elevation certificate and the insurance would be higher because they're right from day one not meeting the current standards even though they were allowed to because you're in this transition period you'd be kind of shortsighted not to meet the new standard like at this point in time because pretty soon it's going to change you know don't rush to do it before July you might as well just comply because yeah somebody goes to you somebody goes to you you could say I would say what I just said and I would say talk to your architect about it too yeah I and I do know some of you are peers Mike are guiding their clients to build to the new code standards Force anybody to do that I can't force anybody no no no I'm not saying you can I'm saying that of the engineers we've been recommending it's just like our I systems we've been recommending it yeah we've already been talking to them and they're already guiding their clients to build under the new code instead of the old code do you have any questions for us Gary no thank you okay well I think that concludes our gathering well we can't do thank you everyone for attending it wonderful this is the conclusion of our and thank you for your time all of you yes [Music]