##VIDEO ID:7LnPCCmEIgM## [Music] okay welcome to the zoning board of appeals please silence all cell phones and note that this meeting is being taped by fctv if there's any private party recording this hearing please step up to the podium to request permission um the zoning board of appeals is charged with applying the state zoning statutes as well as the town zoning bylaws in reviewing and voting on each application all decisions are made through the public hearing process our goal is to hear testimony from the applicants and the public and to allow a full and fair discussion of the project prior to closing of the hearing process and reaching a decision number one to begin each hearing the clerk will read the public announcement for the hearing and read pertinent information from the file two the applicant or the applicant's representative will then have 15 minutes to make make a presentation but time may be extended by a vote of the board three the board will then question the applicant and four the public will then be invited to comment comment should be limited to 2 minutes and be strictly related to The Proposal all members of the public wishing to speak should wait to be recognized by the chair and should come to the podium state your name and address for the record and please speak into the mic it will amplify your voice and record audio for the fctv viewers and we also have a time right before we start our hearings or if anyone has a public comment they're welcome to come up to the podium and it's nothing that's on our agenda tonight and we will not be commenting anybody want to take a shot so we're all set so we'll move on to our hearings and first at bat is vertex Towers LLC and I'm going to open it up make our you can do yours now Frank Madam chair I'm a member of the parish St the SE so I elect to recuse myself from this hearing uh Madam chair as a parishioner at St Elizabeth Sean church I followed the disclosure of appearance of conflict of interest as required by Master Jal law 268a section 23 B3 I have no passive or active role in the parish business phas and I believe I can perform my official duties objectively and fairly are you all set with that we we have no objection to either of those issues okay so tonight we have application 11324 vertex Towers LLC 225 Dire Street in Providence Rhode Island applying to the zoning board of appeals for a special permit pursuing to section 246 6B of the code of Falmouth to construct a 12ft tall monopole to be placed inside a in a Fen in compound um let's see if I read all of these now I can't remember how I do this read sure you look go for it I have my cheat sheet here too this is the letters uh we have a disclosure that is in the file property owned by the Roman Catholic bishop of Fall River the address is 41 Quaker Road North fouth Mass being in book 18754 uh partiel id205 001-01 0 we have submission uh from Pari law application for special permit for the zoning board required filing fee list of abutters prepared by the town letter of authorization is in the file uh visibility demonstration public notice project narrative uh FAA analysis that there's no Hazard to air navigation report site acquisition specialist report of the I believe RF should St a radio frequency engineer and radio frequency coverage maps as well as a site plan uh we have received in opposition 111 uh letters or emails three oh sorry three letters a little different1 I was counting them out like one comment uh none in favor also included in the submission is a copy of the Telecommunications Act of 1996 and one person wanted it red you want me to read it FR Francis something you're I'll read it you're meeting Madam chairman you read it or not let's find it where it was now be in this section damn oh there are good okay one person wanted something read uh I am writing Madam chair if I might suggest I think it's prob that I go first I don't disagree that you should read it but shouldn't you read it during public comment and not before the application it's generally the policies the board to read submissions at the beginning of the hearing thank you w take long uh dear members of the zoning board of appeals I am writing to formally oppose the for the construction of 120t monopole cell tower at 481 Quaker Road North Falmouth the proposed location directly AB buts my property at 16 Scott Drive my concerns regarding this project are multi multifaceted and stem from potential impacts on property values aesthetic character of the old silver neighborhood and potential impacts on health he cites property taxes aesthetic environmental impact health concerns zoning and legal considerations and Community impact and that's what we have go ahead great thank you very much uh as was read again my name is Francis paresi and attorney representing the applicant vertex Towers LLC um as was read in the public notice we are here tonight seeking a special permit for a um um Wireless telecommunications facility most people call it a cell tower um your zoning bylaw doesn't have a specific provision governing these type of facilities other than the use table which says that antenna facilities um are permitted use in the zone that we're in a residential Zone um uh over 50 ft tall subject to a special permit from the uh zoning board which is what we're here seeking tonight um in addition you probably all remember I was back here in May when we first filed the application or June um and as required by um um state law um you made an automatic referral to the Cape Cod Commission for development of regional impact uh we spent the last several months with many public hearings at the C Cod Commission and got a positive decision from them which I believe was forwarded to um the the Zoning Board office um so um and then now we're required to come back to the uh um fman zoning board for uh a local approval um by way of introduction vertex is what we call a wireless infrastructure developer you should know me we were just approved at an almost identical site on gford Street about six months ago that's under construction soon and hopefully will be built before the summer season um the uh uh I have been in front of the uh commission before um back probably all before your time maybe 20 years ago at another similar facility I remember was called Davy tree the the um Landscaping facility right on the mashby line uh along 28 and uh I've been involved in other uh facilities throughout all of Cape Cod um um vertex is um we we um we don't provide telephone service uh names that you've heard of Verizon AT&T T-Mobile have pretty much gotten out of the real estate business and partner up with real estate developers like vertex to build infrastructure um we've already got a signed lease with Verizon they've provided us all of their data but we will own the facility and the reason I I highlight that because as real estate developers we can be a lot more sensitive to the needs of the town the requirement of the town the land use in the area um uh we're also again subject to all of the u k commission regulations and we've got a lot of experience in dealing with um challenging facilities such as as cell towers Verizon is our anchor tenant here I'm sure you've heard of Verizon they're the largest telecommunications company in America they uh um they have um service throughout um Falmouth um and uh as as part of the Cape Cod Commission process they engage independent radio frequency Engineers to analyze all the data that Verizon submits to the town and to the cape C commission and um as you know there is Verizon coverage throughout town but as um more and more people utilize the Verizon network as we get farther and farther into the technology and uh especially the higher uh frequency bands utiliz by Verizon places where we had coverage 5 years ago are now lacking gaps are um are are increasing based on usage and based on the um the limitations of the technology um um the site that we've looked at is a very large 10 acre parcel uh uh it's um the front of it is the u u St um Katherine of Ethan uh um Catholic Church we're going to be way back at the back of the church at the back of the parking lot uh and like I said it's a permitted use in the RB zoning District um subject to a special permit from the zoning board we submitted a very extensive application package I think the uh uh it was read into the notice uh I'm not going to go through all of that tonight but uh um I believe u um the town has had an opportunity because we filed this back in May to review all the data in addition we had to require we filed an immense amount of information with the Cape Cod Commission they do a more thorough analysis uh the uhu both on environmental impact the need for the facility Community impact and uh um uh a variety of different um um um criteria that they look at um to make sure that these facilities are are um satisfy all the requirements for what they call a development of regional impact we've supplemented that with multiple um uh revisions to the site plans multiple revisions to uh data that we provided and uh like I said the the Cape Cod Commission has given us a u uh a positive decision here I'm I'm going to not gloss I'm going to probably gloss over the need for better telecommunications I think you guys all know this uh you know now over 80% of 911 calls are made by cell phones more than 50% of the conal of Massachusetts has cut the cord and only use Wireless Communications as their um um only source of connectivity to the uh the the telecomunications world um um as we get more and more technology you know we first started off with analog phones they were voice devices and if you have any children they don't use them as voice devices they use them as Internet access devices and to send phones I mean photos and streaming video and uh that just requires better connectivity in addition there are actually mandates out there that uh um um folks like Verizon improve the ability of um 911 to be able to U delineate where a cell phone is a 911 call is coming from and that just requires a better signal uh and you know it's got to work in your basement in your second floor outdoors in a car in large commercial buildings and and everything in between and and that requ requires folks like Verizon to uh uh improve their their coverage um um I I'm I'm sure uh noren and the planning staff has a copy of the Cape Cod Commission decision but uh uh they do a very thorough incredibly thorough review of this to uh make sure that it's compliant with all of the u local bylaw compliant with the U Cape Cod Commission development regulations and also the uh U Federal uh statutes that apply to this as well um I I um we've actually been encouraged to spend more time down the cape um the cape because it's a seasonal because of the demand in the summer because of several uh public safety issues that have happened over the last several years we've actually been invited by many cities and towns um to come to to improve telecommunications um we have a a a similar application that's slightly behind this one in Bourne up by Monument Beach um we've uh we just approved down in Brewster um I've done a lot of work out in the Outer Cape wly turo provinc town and uh um you know there's really truly a demand for better telecommunications based on the lack of of of of telecommunications and and coverage gaps as well um um this particular site isn't designed to cover all of fouth there's a you know I think there's Verizon has already seven antenna installations or six um Quaker gford Street is seven and this is another eight antenna installation and notwithstanding that you know there are still gaps in coverage certainly down by the old solar Beach area um U you know a very highly utilized facility in the summertime a relatively um dense residential neighborhood year round and uh and there's certainly um enough traffic to U justify the need and and the explains why the Gap in coverage is there um we submitted an immense amount of technical data to the Cape Cod Commission and to the town they engage Consultants to look at um and you know as the board probably knows there's existing infrastructure but it's all centered to the east of Route 28 uh and uh you know there's pretty good coverage along the Route 28 Corridor and as we go down Thomas Landers Road Blackman shop Road blacksmith shop Road um and uh other facilities but um you know um I think the whole of Cape from Bourne down through Falmouth is experiencing gaps on the west side of 28 going closer to the beach getting closer to the uh um the more heavily utilized recreational uh facil ities like the beach and what this is designed to do is fill in gaps in the Old Silver Beach and in the residential neighborhoods um to the north and to the uh east of there uh and we submitted an immense amount of data that was again reviewed by the uh Cape Cod Commission and their independent Consultants to show uh this is another form of data it's called drivve test data where they drive roads and measure the quality of signal from various uh Vantage points and uh certainly Northeast of this sorry Northwest of the site in the residential neighborhood um north of Old Silver Beach and then down by the old Silver Beach uh in the Quaker Road Corridor U there's certainly um noted gaps in coverage um um we spent an immense amount of time looking at Alternatives here uh I uh no cell site is perfect but uh um um we you know we look at existing land use existing conservation restrictions as you know a lot of fouth is wet and it has development restrictions um quite frankly most of areas in Falmouth that aren't wet have been developed residentially or for other um industrial commercial uses so it's getting harder and harder for us to find appropriate locations the good thing is is that um because of the existing coverage the gaps are getting smaller so this Tower is 120 ft tall as comparison I think the towers on Thomas Landing Road are 180 ft tall and some of the other Towers in fither you know in my world 150 is average and as we go it a uh uh smaller gaps and closer to residential uses we bring them down so this is 120 ft which is um certainly less than some of the other facilities already in fouth um this is just a map showing the uh like the tax assessor lots and as you can see how densely populated it is um and how um um challenging it is to find any lots of size um your zoning bylaw doesn't have much restriction on cell towers the Cape Cod Commission however has very extensive setback regulations where they have to be set back a certain um param 125 ft of the height of the Tower from all the budding property lines um they encourage U places that um are that take advantage of a vegetative buffer so that people can't see it from the public rights away and from Ab buding properties and uh uh so uh you know and but you know knowing that we have to be west of 28 and as close to the residential neighborhood as possible without having an impact as residential neighborhood as possible you know we were able to um um find the land at the U uh Catholic Church which is a sizable lot it abuts other undeveloped lots that are restricted by conservation restrictions so it really is um not only a good site but really the only site that we were able to identify um we submitted lots of data in the package and is also to the Cape Cod Commission showing all the other lots that we looked at we looked at pretty much every lot of size in the west of 28 neighborhood um and also um you know anything that uh um might have had um some viability but and we talked to many landlords but uh um we have to also find a landlord that was willing to accommodate a cell tower other people have other plans for their um the lots and I can't force it upon them but uh in this particular case we were able to um uh come to terms with the Catholic Church um uh and and to be honest we've done other deals with the Catholic church because they are very sizable landowner and the Commonwealth of Massachusetts uh I haven't done any on Cape Cod but I think they do have some facilities on Cape Cod but they have several facilities off Cape Cod because they tend to be larger land owners and uh this particular lot is a 10 acre lot it's um um surrounded by um the lot to the South is under common ownership um um with the the the um Church uses for parking the lots to the um East are um subject to development because they're basically wet and then Dam Pond is is uh to the north uh the Catholic Church also owns the land I believe directly across the street on uh Quaker Road um um just for open space um the um um site you know amply meets all required setbacks I think the Cape Cod commission's requirement is 125% of the height of the tower we are um more than U 450 ft to Quaker Lane a quicker Road I'm sorry um we are um um 189 ft from the properties to the West 300 ft to the properties to the South and over 500 ft to Dam Road damp pond so amply set back from all abing properties the uh facility itself is similar to other um types of compounds this is a little bit smaller we were able to condense it down the um the fenced in area will be um 48 by 58 ft the U Cape Cod Commission given that there was some visibility from Quaker Road from the parking lot um across across the parking lot they had us add some Landscaping to the property and also some uh Landscaping to the west to uh mitigate the visual buffer and this went back and forth three times they make us plant um um Native and non-invasive species so it uh they they gave a very thorough review to make sure that there's minimal visual impact um the uh Tower itself is what we call a monopole facility it's virtually identical although 10 ft shorter than the tower that the the board just approved on um gford Street um it's similar to other facilities in town and throw Cape Cod uh the tower itself is 120 ft tall um Verizon will attach antennas at what we call a center line of 115 ft and as required by Cape Cod Commission regulations and I believe encouraged by your bylaw um we're a tower developer we we're agnostic we build towers that um provide space to multiple Telecommunications companies and we know that as time goes on um once Verizon has better coverage in the west fouth area and the old Silva Beach area um AT&T will come along so as encouraged by the uh uh uh Cape guide commission regulations we build it with the height and the structural Integrity for multiple telecommunications providers to minimize the number of other Towers in the in the town and in the area um uh I I'm sure the board has heard this before but for members of the public um these are very low powered facilities they're designed not to cover all of fouth they're all of Eastern Massachusetts or all of Cap Cod it was really designed to cover a very small area um north and south on 28a north and south on gford road uh gford Street I mean I mean Quaker Road Quaker uh and you know like that old Silver Beach area and the residential neighborhood surrounding it uh and and um um um and by you know kind of anecdotally um the and the reason why it's a low power facility is because it's a two-way communication your cell phone talks to the near cell phone antenna and your antenna communicates with your cell phone and when you're using your cell phone this has to be a low powered transmission to not create any kind of health effects and um so by um you know and they routinely broadcast at about 100 Watts uh it's a very low powered radio transmission by comparison um WBZ in Boston which I think you still get down here broadcast out at 50,000 Watts because that technology AM radio is trying to broadcast as large a geography as possible this on the other hand is trying to cover a very small um area to connect up with other um sites like we talked about on the um east side of Route 28 um and and what this does is um as was shown by the data that was reviewed by the commission provides very um good coverage up and down the Quaker Road Corridor Old Silver Beach the residential neighborhood just to the north of Old Silver Beach um and uh um um and and fills in gaps um in in um both the residential and the recreational facility areas uh along the uh west coast of the budg bay um uh everyone Nots know what it's going to look like um as require your bylaw doesn't require it but uh I had many many Communications with Ashley and uh noren um the Cape Cod Commission requires us to put a balloon we notified a but we put ads in the paper um the kit card commission actually asked us to do it again because um they just felt we needed to do it again so in October we reput up the balloon and we um um took many photos and took many photo simulations and I'm going to jump to that now because I think that's um really what most people are concerned about uh um we engage Engineers to uh do this let me jump over here um and what they do is they um put up a balloon they certify that the height is the balloon is 120 ft the string is 120 ft tall so the balloon's actually a little bit higher and what they do is take pictures of where it's visible where it's not visible and then um um provide where it's visible they can provide photo simulations to show what it's going to look like and what this map shows is all the different places that they um took photos from they drive around the whole area and take representative photos um and you know there is some visibility to the tower um basically right at the entrance es to the church at the opening of the parking lot there was some visibility back cuz the facility is going to be at the back of the parking lot um there was some U minimal visibility Through the Trees from some of the residential neighborhoods to the North and South um surprisingly there was actually some visibility from the old Silver Beach parking lot because as you no one ever does it because you're looking towards the ocean but if you look back there's a a wetlands in a big uh swamp area right across the old so Beach parking lot and then the tower was up at a little Elation there so with a little bit of visibility from the old Silver Beach parking lot but uh that is about not quite a mile away um and then we'll zip through the I'm going to zip through these but I think you know I'm going to focus on photos one and two photos 12 and 17 and then photos 16 and 15 I think those will show um and you know when we say visible you're not looking at 120 ft of tower you're seeing the tower over existing trees uh this is um taken from the entrance to the parking lot as you can see you can see the balloon there and then what they do is they superimpose a tower um and it's going to be behind some vegetation but you're going to see it from the entrance to the parking lot you can kind of see it behind the the trees here um similarly um and and there it is no sorry there it is right there in there uh so you uh have and what this tells me is that you're seeing about um 20 to 30 ft of the top of the tower and certainly not the full 20t stack um similarly on the um uh other side um as you look at the church on the right side of the there's a parking lot entrance and again you'll have uh some visibility there to the to the tower itself but uh as you're driving down Quaker Road that's really not in your windshield it's really if you're just um looking through the parking lot or standing in the parking lot of the the church um and again when we add multiple telecommunications antennas AT&T and T-Mobile that's what'll look out at full buildout um I think I said um there's a lot of pictures that show no visibility but uh just jumping to uh photo location 12 and 17 and then 16 and 15 um and like like I said these are all just photos that we submitted the commission um just showing no visibility from all these different Vantage points but uh to location 12 is the nearest residential street Scott Drive um and it doesn't project up above the tower it's it's definitely there in the foliage and then if we superimpose it um with and this is just taken from the other side of the property uh uh you uh you it's not above the tree line but certainly lost in the tree line and then when we and that actually picture has a picture of the tower in it uh again with no visibility the next street over I said photo location 16 is on um n um uh again you could see it the the uh uh you can see it through the trees you can kind of see the balloon there above the U uh chimney there and then U but it's really masked by the uh the foliage what's that um and then we said down by Old Silver Beach is the old Silver Beach parking lot looking away from uh the beach towards back towards uh up Quaker Road and you can just see the balloon just above the uh to so what that tells me you're going to see just the top antennas maybe five to uh 7 feet of the top of the tower um and there was another vantage point I think we said uh right there uh again this is the street right in front of um uh the entrance to the Old Silver Beach parking lot um and because of the uh the U uh conservation land and the wetlands there's some some visibility above there but I think for the most part um it shows um um limited visibility and uh um and I think the Cape Cod Commission was was satisfied in that regard um um we went through very I provided the board with a very uh lengthy memo showing the benefits of this uh and going through all the uh um criteria for a special permit that you know that it's adequate in size in terms for the proposed use again it's a 10 acre parcel um um surrounded by you know not other large Parcels so it makes it challenging to find any alternative U the suitability of site for the proposed use um you know it's um but for the parking lot and the the place where the church and the rectory is there's a substantial vegetative buffer on on three sides and it's set back you know 450 ft from Quaker Road the impact on traffic flow this will be an unmanned facility uh it's uh you know there'll be a month six weeks of construction and then afterwards it's unmanned people the the electronics are all remotely monitored uh someone might come by like once a month just to make sure the fence is intact which is really the only issue that we usually have sometimes trees falling the uh um fencing and stuff like that but uh um you know there's really no impact on visual character as we saw from the uh photo simulations there's no sewage water there's no man facilities because it's an unmanned facility um the adequacy of utilities will bring in standard electricity from the um the street uh uh so it really has no impact on utility service um there's no impact on affordable housing um and uh um all the performance requirements of the zoning byw which in this case aren't applicable um the um um the facility itself again this says residential agriculture this is taken from the G or treat this is in a residential Zone and it's 10 acres but uh I think you know you saw from the photos and the the aerial photos that it uh um it really really has no impact in the neighborhood really has no impact and provides a great public benefit uh to the town um and the last thing I know that the board is is um aware of it about 20 plus years ago um almost 30 now at this point um the uh um um federal government um recognized the the need for better telecommunications recognized the need to um uh create competition in telecommunications we all used to be beholden to AT&T and now um the the the federal government um um encourages the use of Wireless Communications it recognizes a big Public Safety benefit it recognize the fact that we still have multiple companies Verizon AT&T T-Mobile another company dish coming in the market there may even be more and uh um it doesn't say the the federal laws don't say you have to say yes it just basically says you can't say no without good reason uh and uh uh in this case given the extensive review U by the Cape Cod Commission I I see no reason that the town could deny this based on U um the review that we've already had um um and so I'm going to take a deep breath and say I would respectfully request that the town Grant the special permit um and the last thing I want to uh tell uh the board I'm sure you've heard this before um um in addition to being very encouraged by the federal government we're also subject to extensive Federal Regulation as well um because this is a federally licensed facility unlike any other thing in the um town of Falmouth um we have to undergo a very extensive environmental due diligence to make sure we have no impact on a whole host of environmental resources we need to make sure we have no impact on historical resources and we contact the State historic preservation officer who consults with the local historic preservation officer we need to make sure we have no impact on Native American resources everyone else in town can just uh dig where they want with permission from the town we have to consult with Indian tribes to make sure that there's no um Native American uh resources that will have an impact on we need to make sure we have no impact on migratory Birds endangered plant and Wildlife species um I actually did a a facility in well Fleet where I'd never heard of it before but there was some Bush the broom crowberry Bush that uh was um an endangered plant species and only found in Outer Cape Cod and we had to move the site 50 feet in order to avoid um having impact on this bush and so uh um and we've already uh satisfied all of those requirements we do have very extensive due diligence independent of what the town or the state or the Cape Cod Commission employes upon us so uh you know we've U made sure that this really has no environmental impact um so we would um respectfully request that the board Grant the special permit so we continue to move forward with the project great thank you we'll start up here Mark you want to start off yeah yeah you said you took uh photos at two different dates yes what were those dates um uh one was June 28th and one was October 3rd what um we had um applied back in May and and I um but I I see what happens is I apply and then you refer to the Cape Cod Commission and then I have to um provide an application of the Cap Cod Commission and so we had um um timed it so that I could notify abutters at the same time as we were applying to the town and so we sent notices to all the abuts um back in June and then the town asked us I mean the k commission asked us put a balloon up again and we didn't R notify a Butters but we put an ad in the paper uh to say we were doing it yeah um just being The Devil's Advocate I mean it is January um you certainly seem to on those two dates uh take advantage of the uh seasonal Greenery if uh I might point out um the uh impact in the visibility would be certainly greater had you taken the pictures now when the uh deciduous trees had lost their leaves I'm going to I'm going to comment on that um I we don't time we when I have all the data uh uh and I'll and I'll tell you what we have found is that that's actually not true because even though you have leaves on the trees but when the tree the leaves come off the trees there's still foliage uh I I'll tell you I just had a balloon up in western Mass um that was a mile from the Appalachian Trail and uh literally a week ago I hiked the Appalachian Trail there was 7 in of snow on the ground to prove that you couldn't see it from the trail because there was foliage and everyone said you're going to see it the leaves are off the trees and there wasn't and and there's no visibility so um you know we've actually found that um and and we don't try to time things uh um to take advantage of foliage or not take advantage of we just conveniently just worked out that way can you go to that first picture you had say it again can you go to the first picture that you had the the photographs yeah one from the entrance of the church parking lot um this uh that one right there this is the one back um back one right there yeah see speaking of the tree seems you took advantage of that Branch right there no but that gone over another 10 ft I mean it would certainly be completely visible and then I just have to say to compare this to the uh Appalachian Trail is a bit of a uh stretch I mean there is limited and I mean there's nothing we can do about this I realize but uh you know um uh but I but I'll tell you they really don't uh our Engineers um I I didn't invite them tonight but they're they're not trying to hide it and it could very well be that that was a place that you could see it say you were trying to hide it but the fact is if there weren any leaves on those trees it would be much more visible than it is now that's all I mean it just certainly appears that way and uh it's compounded by that angle that you took the so you already switched away from it pack of L I mean I mean that's that's all I'm just going to uh um you know when you look at the aerial photo um the U the facility is basically right back here and you see that you know there's still um an immense amount of trees even without leaves and there's some Greenery uh meaning there's some oh in many spots yeah I understand um you you said that uh you uh own this facility um but on the stakes it's it's it says lease uh so you're actually leasing that land from no we we lease the land from the Catholic Church the dasis that owns the land um we build the structure and then we lease space on the tower to Verizon and other telecommunications companies but but you don't own the land actually no definitely not and what's that a 99e lease or something I don't usually get involved but they're way longer than I'm and quite frankly probably you are going to be around it's usually they're 50 years or something like that all right I'd be curious to know how much they get but that's probably not anything you're going to let us know so okay I'll be hon I don't even get involved in that there's other folks that deal with the the the land owners behind the leaves uh just uh thank you um just quickly where your your fenced in area is 48x 58 and you have a 120 ft monopole is there a risk of if that was to ever fa towards the parking lot are people that would be parked there safe um it was hard to tell when I was there uh I'm going to tell you um um we've had no incidents and there's really been none National I understand just walk I got 120 ft if that falls towards the parking lot would that put put par people in the parking lot at R um if you're in your convertible um that's true how ever the tower is engineered so that it doesn't collapse and we um um after we get done with the uh planning of the zoning board here we go back and do geotechnical analysis and analyze what's there capap C probably going to be sand and then we design a foundation specific to that um and then um you know um Towers have been around you know these type of facilities have been in fouth for 25 years or longer and and uh um and with all kinds of natural disasters and we've had lots of test cases uh no Towers came down during Sandy no Towers came down during Katrina um and the other thing this monopole design that we talk about um is actually a benefit in that regard because um um the cabling like there's a steel pole and there's cabling inside and there's been some instance where there's been a little bit of a Bend but the tower doesn't collapse down doesn't lie down it creates a little Bend and the cables actually hold it together even more so uh there's lots of data to support including you know facilities in bouth and throughout all of Cap Cod and throughout all of Massachusetts and throughout the there's um hundreds i w say hundreds there's tens of thousands of similar structures throughout the United States uh the bishop approved it so I'm sure it'll fall towards the open space but uh uh no uh the uh Federal Telecommunications Act of 96 certainly gives the applicant uh and and and you have done the due diligence with the c card commission but uh to Mark's point you it's it's kind of difficult as a board member to kind of as looking at these aspects of of the protections of the of the ACT it's it's difficult for us to really say too much and uh so I appreciate the information quick yeah um just out of curiosity uh is that cable is that pre pre stressed in there what's that cable inside is it stressed um like in concrete you know preed no no no no no no no no it's just it's coax cable or maybe fiber optic cable it's but it's it's another thing that holds the tower um so that it doesn't collapse onto itself um and and like I said there's been an immense amount of data to support that okay uh Mr Peterson's question was the only concern I had and you know we're preempted for our concerns are preempted under the act so I have no questions Tony I have a few questions go forward um our Building Commissioner did did have concern about the fall zone and I'm sure by now do you have to get a building permit from our Building Commissioner no we can't apply for one until we get the special perit at some point in time you you go down to that office and get a building permit oh yeah we we'll eventually apply we like I said we um after we finish with the zoning board we design a foundation we design a tower specific to um the the county barille county and then we bring that data to the cap to the building the point I'm making is that by the time you get there The Building Commissioner can evaluate the fall zone and the reality between falling and not falling is that correct exactly and um uh I I don't want to criticize you for using the word fall zone but that implies something that doesn't happen what he that's what he used but you know I look at it you know and uh you know where um uh um um the nearest property line is the property line to the West which is uh the undevelopable wetlands I'm not even sure who owns it it might even be the the town but we're more than tower height setback so even if I concede that it would lie down someday we're more than tower height setback from all buing property line so and I only bring it up because I read it in his comments and he used that term so uh other any chemicals or batteries I think you might have talked of this about this on Gord street that are stored in the buildings yeah that could leak into the environment um the um there's no building per se what's happening is that um the um equipment is going in these weatherproof cabinets it's like a big refrigerator but it's designed to be outdoors it's designed withstand the elements and there will be backup batteries in there but they're contained inside this weatherproof thing um on a concrete pad um and designed to not be um um harmful to the environment I was reminded today that uh when it comes to the Telecommunications Act of 1996 and how strong it is that doesn't really work well for the community unless we get better telephone connection I was reminded that facts are required not assertions so I just wanted to get and you pointed this out in your application 240 section 240 12.1 e paragraph 1 part A that this board is required as a review criteria to go through um that section of the bylaw to make sure that we've covered everything that's required when we do this so we received a couple letters uh that were read one of them and this is part of the review criteria one of them suggested there's been a number of studies suggest that homes near Sal Towers may see a significant depreciation and value now again facts uh are important I do not I did find some studies that talked about uh obsolescence and as you know when you do a property appraisal Banks do them other Praises do it obsolescence is a point where you reduce the value because of some external or internal aspect of it and I don't have those studies because I didn't have the time to study it but are you aware of any obsolescence created by these towers going up um because the studies exist I read some of them now um there's a lot of anecdotal evidence out there that says it has an effect on property values there's actually no data to support that and all I have to do is point to the town of fman there are six other town Towers in town and uh I you know it's it's not one of the criteria that I need to satisfy it's we're seeking a variance where that is one of the criteria but uh um uh I'm virtually certain if I called the tax assessor in the town of Falmouth and said have you ever reduced someone's assessment by the because of the proximity to cell tower they would say no and we routinely do that all the time in areas where um you know there might be some impact uh um and and you know um I unfortunately I can't get appraisers or anyone to say that the lack of cell phone coverage affects property values but that to me seems more I was only concerned about the visual aspect the obsolesence that it might create and it's part of what uh 12.1 e requires uh it says impact on neighborhood visual character including views and Vistas so I have to ask that question we have to go through this review criteria you brought it up in your application so it was brought up in to us I'm asking you if there anything that you're aware of and I don't have all the studies I know they exist because I started to find them but uh you get really go into a rabbit hole over that now we have another uh email that says uh zba should consider that cell towers are readily being out um modeled by low orbit satellites so approving cell towers now creates unsightly soon to be abandoned industrial facilities Towers so my question to you in answer to that in in in answer to that is why do we need Towers why can't we just rely on satellites at this point in time um why is it becoming outmoded because you know Elon Musk would say that you're you're a dinosaur and you should be having satellites going on so why should we be concerned about that right now okay I've been waiting to tell this joke for a long time um do you want Elon Musk controlling your telecommunications networks U and and okay okay I only use it because he's got his own no but that's a joke and uh um and I read about all that stuff too however it's it's um um the Telecommunications industry is still investing billions of dollars in terrestrial networks and the reason is is because it's still many many years away before um satellites have the capability to replace the terrestrial networks one of the um um you know like um I someone told me once that um a satellite to cover the geography that we would um um be in right now would actually cover the geography between here and Cleveland Ohio and just think about all of the millions and hundred tens of millions of cell phones in that area and there's not enough technology for a satellite to handle all those telecommunications um um the other thing I'm going to tell you uh and I think it's um I don't want to uh give away your zoning bylaw does not have very extensive regulations with respect to cell towers however a lot of other towns have very extensive regulations York Main being one of them right what's that York Main being one of them and they still lost that case right but um that's but what I'm going to uh tell you is that a lot of towns impose a requirement onto us to post a bond so if this ever became obsolete there would the town would have and we disappeared because we think it's going to be here for 50 years but I'm not going to be here in 50 years and uh uh and if a lot of towns impose a requirement that we post a bond and we would agree to that because we do it in every other town so um uh we're as an industry Verizon and are not anticipating any obsolescence anytime soon but I just want to just correct that when I was talking about obsolescence was an appraisal Factor where because of the existence of the tower it creates an obsolescence and affects the value of neighboring houses I asked the question I don't have an answer uh to that although I did read reports that that does happen I don't expect you to agree with it that but I think that part of what we have to do in 12.1 e is to ask those questions and I think that I've done what I can do on that situation thank you mam thank um when you guys are building will you be it would be contained to that small area or you guys have to Branch it there's I know there's a lot of trails back there and people walk back there once this is built or during the build is that off limits or on once this is up it's just um the area of disturbance is I the fence line is 48 by 58 the area of disturbance is the the heavy dotted line we're talking uh you know 70 by 70 maybe 60 I can't tell you exactly but it's because it's uh uh Amorphis but uh um that's all we we're affecting nothing's restricted up up to the fence no people no that that'll be fenced in there'll be telecommunications equipment um we don't want to have anybody um unauthorized accessing the equipment but uh that's really it's um from a land use perspective this is um you know 60 63 3,000 square ft on a 10 acre parcel so it's a the Minimus and the other benefit too is that um um by utilizing by putting it right off the parking lot we don't have to build a big Access Road um uh the cape guide commission and as was and even sentiment here is we want to be set back from property lines but they also want to be in areas where we take advantage of a visual buffer the the vegetation so often times we have to build very long access driveways and then have impact on Wetlands Stu like that this because of the uh church parking lot we're able to take advantage of asphalt U without having a significant environmental impact so it's a it's a it's a win-win for us you all set Nick yeah good got one more quick one for you actually two I just want to point out I mean you know in effect you you are a salesman here but in in response to uh Mr patchi's questions about affecting the value your response was uh you're not aware of any assessors lowering um the value of a property well I don't think I'm aware of any assessor ever lowering the value of any property but that didn't really answer his question because his concern and everybody El would be the sales value of the house in the area of the neighborhood where the cell tower did exist and that was our concern and you didn't really address it um and then on the uh satellite thing uh you said you know you're not aware of an individual satellite well starlink as far as my familiarity they use multiple satellites so you really didn't address that question adequately either that's all there's nothing we can do about this but just point it out it's my job for the board's reference I did contact the town assessor today and she reported that they do not make any type of amendment for property values related to proximity to a cell tower or anything else we also have to go to the public is everybody okay with public well go to the public now for any comments please come on up please state your name and address I no I just left the picture there so for reference uh I don't have a PowerPoint so what I'd like to do if you don't mind my name is Charlotte Harris I live at 37 arther Street which is in Precinct Five I serve on the planning board um which I don't think actually disqualifies me from coming to speak on this what I'd like to do is my beautiful thank you please yep directly this is the mono Tower This Is Us got it thank you this is for me to keep yes okay okay my sister is here keeping track to be sure I don't forget any of our points first I'd like to ask for an extension in time I see that you have uh you're willing to give extensions so I'd like to take advantage of that um I'd like to talk first about the zoning issues that I see with this a monopo is a structure it's not an antenna and as a structure it really needs a site plan review which it didn't actually have I'm not sure we want it back to planning I'm just pointing it out um because the way our zoning works is we have what's called a permissive bylaw that if it's named in the bylaw you're permitted to do it if it's not named you're not allowed to do it so you take a look at our bylaw that affects this particular project which says you can do radio and television antennas this isn't an antenna it isn't it's a monopole it's a structure to which antennas are attached eventually but it's not an antenna so it's not actually permitted because it's not named I think that they might vertex might have been aware of that because when he came to you before for the one over on gford street they asked in their application straight up front they asked please give us a uh uh special permit but also give us a variance because if you're going to do something that's not specifically named you actually need a variance so they haven't asked for what they need under our bylaws so that's sort of a problem with this if you look at the heading on what they're asking for - they didn't ask for the variance but they need one because they're building something that's not [Applause] permitted our local comprehensive plan which they cited in their appli application does call for improved infrastructure and they're saying that shows that we really need this we do really need it but it leaves it to zoning to rule about the location and other specifications it's in no way a permission I'd like to talk now about the Telecommunications Act overriding local zoning and Mr Petru you're apparently familiar with the York case I really enjoyed reading that York case a lot I don't know if you're familiar with it where the permit and the whole thing was turned down um because uh that particular zoning board of appeals understood that the Telecommunications Act does give an advantage to people who are trying to put in that infrastructure that we need so that you have to really affirmatively try to do it but it doesn't say you have to say yes it does say that you have to really support when if you're going to say no you have to support it so it doesn't disadvantage communities where the zba does its job so I just want to say that special permits and variances they're really quite different if you're going to do a special permit it has to be for a reason for health safety morals or general welfare safety could be involved here because in fact these things may have never fallen over but there's always a first time they're putting in electromagnetic fields there who knows exactly and there's a lot you can just Google it and find it people say that that's dangerous there might be a public health issue I don't think there's really a moral issue although I actually find a moral issue when an an entity such as the Catholic Church which I admire I think it's wonderful they're very good neighbors but I think it's wrong of them who pay no taxes to try to have the town accept something that's going to lower the property values of all the places around it people who've been there for years who are counting on the equity in those houses to be able to support whatever their next step in life may be and it's not about what the assessor says it's about what the real estate people say and the real estate people have done many many studies and they show anywhere from 2 to 9% loss in value because you have this big industrial commercial thing in your backyard your house loses value you can look it up the national Realtors I'm not sure I've gotten quite the right name it's an National Association of Realtors and they say 7.45% so different percentages but loss they agree that there's a loss in value as soon as you put an industrial commercial monopole or cell tower in a neighborhood it takes away from the value the immediate value that's around it so special permits might not be able to do that also on variances in order to give a variance you have to the person requesting the variance the burden is on the person who wants the entity that wants the variance you have to show a substantial hardship Financial or otherwise in my heart I can't find vertex and Horizon suffering Financial hardships if they don't get to put this pole up in my backyard maybe you would that there be no substantial detriment to the public good I live right there we had actually very very good reception so to say that the reception isn't good in the Old Silver Beach area um may be somewhere else but it isn't at my house nor the house of my friends who live in new Silver Beach the people I do hear complaints from are the people who live in West fouth they are not getting good reception so I don't know what their studies are showing but that's what just anecdotal information you all live here you've probably all heard the same kind of thing so that to assert something is true is quite different from verifying that it actually that it actually is true there's no detriment to the public good in denying this as the the uh York Main case pointed out there are other ways to fill gaps in service you don't have to have a cell tower you can use things that I'm not proficient in talking about they were talking about sounded to me like some a tricky kind of booster thing but there are other ways to fill in those gaps depending on the size of them and an emphasis was placed on not being very big gaps not trying to do a huge area other places have found two things they can say no and they can fill the gaps in another way if the gaps are important and the gaps are important to the people in West fouth on visual impact this is as he pointed out what most people complain about and what I'm here to complain about this is directly outside my kitchen window my living room windows my work room windows these are the three places where my sister and I we live together that's where we spend our time and you look out there and it's been beautiful and to say it has no Scenic value is you know that's a little bit insulting but it has a Scenic value to us and it has a Scenic value also to the people who drive on curly Boulevard approaching the church from any angle the people who live on the streets right behind and around us to the people who walk constantly around the bog handy cranberry trust the big landowner in the area is very generous and allowing all AB budding neighborhoods to use there the paths around the bog there's always people there and these Tower this Tower is going to dominate that space that visual space will be dominated by this 120t Tower have you seen the 120t tower beside Walmart I wonder which of these is 120 ft I can't eyeball it so I asked at the planning department where can I see 120 ft right beside Walmart the difference is the one at Walmart is on sort of a different kind of a a guy or self structure thing whereas this is a monopole which is bigger and actually uglier so it would be different it will have an enormous visual impact it will change the character of the immediate neighborhood it definitely will and it depends on what you think of as immediate because you pointed out you can see it from down by the beach I know that you can see it from as you walk way over uh toward the uh Dale Drive and so forth they will be visible from there so those points points I have one more point I want to make they say well they lack Alternatives if they want to do this they lack Alternatives so I look at the list of Alternatives that they list and on the list there's nothing on the far side of 28 none and yet you look at the land at the way the road goes 28 comes down and it curves in such a way that is very close to Snug Harbor and West fouth Harbor that that's where it's closest to the water that's where it's closest to the big mansions over there the people who want this great reception that's where they could get the best reception the nearest open Land There is on the other side of 28 and it belongs to the town you know all the land around the dog pound a lot of open land there it'd be a pretty good site I suppose and it has the added advantage of being on top of the Marine so it's high land it's not low land so I think there would be Alternatives that definitely could be investigated but aren't documented in this and of course the whole thing about the federal law is they have to document whatever and they have failed to do it there's no engineering report in here so that's what I had wanted to say I hope two things I hope you deny it but on the road to denial if you could please continue it because I think there's more information that we all could use before a decision is made thank you thank you anybody else from the public come on up name and address please hi I'm Mary Harris uh Precinct 5 I live with my sister Charlotte I think we are the closest to Butters except people on the south side but we're definitely the closest on the North and I think you have some very good reasons for denying this my chief one being that if you look at a real study of the um in Falmouth where are the gaps West Falmouth is certainly the place and there's land available right on the other side of Route 28 right next to North Fel West Falmouth where it would be very appropriate to put a tower it's where we felt it was appropriate to put the wind towers and so I feel that you're not denying them anything here when we have other options that the long list they included of options that they looked at and their study we're all in North Falmouth except for one on Dale Road which actually is technically West Falmouth but it's really North fouth so they were not looking for any property in the area that in fact has the largest gap in service here as Charlotte mentioned we've been there for 31 years and for all the time that we've had cell phones and we are varing customers we have never had an issue with um reception another thing I'd like to point out they mentioned they don't need to inform uh I forget what it was called the at a little Lis because of the distance from uh joint based cape card they didn't have to notify anyone because we live there we are quite aware that frequently the Coast Guard helicopter the rescue helicopter flies directly over our house and it Fly our house goes straight over our house and straight over the church so they've got a helicopter that flies right in this route I know that if you take a look at the uh proposed flight line for helicopters it's supposed to be slightly to the south of that but it's not what the helicopters actually do so I think that's a problem um I agree on the um I checked into the various uh decreases in value of property and if you take the range of uh 2 and A2 to 9% % and the one in the National Association of realtor study said 7.6% I believe and just apply that to a varying the Assessor's value of our house or the um value that I see when I look on Zillow then the loss to us is anywhere from 45,000 to 140,000 which is a substantial loss I don't know how much the church is going to gain by having there another point I'd like to make is I'm on the board of Falmouth net which is the group that's been trying to bring high-speed fiber to Falmouth and I happen to agree with these cell towers are going to be obsolete in fact as the treasurer of the West Falmouth Library I attempted to uh use some of our land to put a cell tower up there thinking that that would be a nice Revenue source for us and was told we don't really need them anymore so I have a feeling that the the usage of this Tower is quite Limited at one point in your presentation it looks like this is in a rural kind of area with the pictures you're looking at but in another one he showed actually there's a great deal of residential density this particular request is very different from 737 gford Street which came before you last summer that if you look at the site on gford street it's really quite suitable for it there are electric power lines that go through there uh three sides of the intersection near there are already commercial or industrial or you know light industrial uses that's not true in this one we are really a very residential area the only thing that's not a residence there is the church building but actually there's a residence on that property too so it's a very very different situation that you're looking at here and we feel that there aren't um excellent reasons for you to turn it down in this location um I'd like to comment about the balloon study as an AB butter I did not get notified until the October photographs we never heard of anything in June as it turned out you had to go on to their website you were given to find out cuz the day they announced it they then canceled it so there was nothing then you to go to their website every night to find out are they planning to do it tomorrow tomorrow tomorrow and I did that for three nights in a row and was told no it's canceled wind wind wind and then I skipped it for a day and it turned out that was the day they came and did it I haven't found any of my neighbors who actually saw any of these balloon studies I was interested to see the photographs but I don't think they're really showing you what this is going to look like I do feel it's going to have a substantial impact also on the open space in that area and just the serenity that people feel walking through the cranbery bogs a lot of people park near us to walk to the beach I think it might impact people's sense of do they want to come to all Silver Beach anymore if they're looking at something that looks industrial I don't think there are any trees over there that are taller than 60 ft and this is 120 so a vegetative buffer that's not the problem I agree with them it's in the winter time from certain angles you can't see through the tree the woods for the density of the trees but the real visual impact isn't in the first 50 or 60 ft it's the 60 to 120 ft and there's certainly no uh topographical reason I can see nor did they substantiate their claim that this would be the minimum height required they statement that they needed a minimum height of 130 ft in the first proposal crossed out to 120 actually even in the Verizon thing they said they were only looking for 115 there was nothing to substantiate that based on the Topography of the area so thank you very much for your consideration I hope that you will um not permit this thank you anybody else from the public come on up need your name and address please good evening Michael Stewart 24 Damen so um I feel I'm in a butter but I'd love to see the list of the butters I didn't see it in the uh in the town's uh website I looked through it several times looking for the list of the butters because uh the ab Butters notified I believe were on Scott Drive there's seven houses on Scot drive and in June of those seven houses there were no full-time residents they were all summer residents or it was a rental property um on adamian which is the next street over so I'm about 600 ft from this 120t t uh pole um there are five full-time residents of the seven houses on the street and then if you go on to Kore and further down towards the bogs there's another five or six residents who are full-time residents and not summer residents so the I think even though the state law says 300 ft I think the um Spirit of the law wasn't notified cuz I didn't know about a tower going in until one of my neighbors who lived on Scott Drive called me and said do you know they put in a uh cell phone tower in the church parking lot and I didn't so I would love to see this postponed and proper notification sent out um someone said that it was expensive to send out all these notifications um I'm guessing making an extra 30 copies and mailing out first class mail an additional 30 notifications to the people on Arthur Kore Scott and Bay Shore um even if you had to send out a 100 might cost you an extra $100 so I don't think it's very expensive to notify people I think that is a um a big thing um I also agree that the um the balloon thing is a an issue when it was done in fact one of those pictures was my house um so they took a picture from that house but they never notified the person who lived in that house that they were doing a balloon test or that they were going to stand in front of my house and take a picture uh of my house um but lo and behold there's my house in the presentation so I think this definitely reason to postpone this and really notify the people who will be impacted it not just the six or seven houses that might be 300 ft from the church parking lot thank you thank you come on up sir I I'm Francis Gorski 16 SC Drive North fouth um you touched upon the letter that I asked you to read into the ret so I appreciate that thank you um I want to say ditto to all the public comment that was um that we just heard and um I was at the property today I took video and photos which I'm happy to share with the board a little bit different than the balloon test that happened in June and October um it would clearly be visible from our property on 16 Scot drive and um I'm actually shocked to hear that it would be visible from Old Silver Beach which is about half a mile or a little bit further um just to touch upon I want to Echo some of the things that have been mentioned already obviously the concern about property values and I've read done the same research again anywhere from 2 to 9% that's significant um and obviously I'm concerned about the repercussions for my family and for our neighbors the visual impact again as I'm mentioning today I was at the property would be considerable and it would distract from the visual Harmony of the neighborhood yeah this is a be we we purchased our home in April of 2018 we've made many great memories both at our property and at Old Silver Beach it's a beautiful Scenic Community this Tower does not belong there it changes the character of the community it belongs in an industrial area um health concerns I know the 1996 Telecom act doesn't allow a board like this to weigh in on that perhaps that act should be updated 30 years later but there are concerns with uh effects of prolonged exposure to the type of radiation that's emitted from cell towers particularly for property as close to the cell tower as I would be and our my fellow neighbors who are here this evening um and just to to close basically the the broader Community impact um I think also the church is being a little shortsighted you know as soon as that Tower goes up the future impact the future value of that property decreases and um you know and coming from Boston many Church properties have been sold and become uh residential so I thank you uh for allowing me to speak and I respectfully ask you to decline uh the proposal thank you thank you anybody else from the public I think we're all said do you want to come up and address anything that was said yeah I just jotted down a bunch of notes um uh we are here tonight seeking a special permit because your bylaw regulates uh antenna facilities um and the last time we were here we were in a different zoning District that there was some confusion so I asked for a variance and our special permit this it was way much clearer antenna facility fa ities under 50 ft in height are by right antenna facilities over 50 ft in height so they're obviously regulating the structure um U are um uh are subject to special permit from the zoning board which we're here uh I've been here many times previously with other facilities and was never asked to go to the site plan review and I don't believe that that's necessary in this instance um there was a lot of issues like can you put it somewhere else put it in the industrial Zone put it to the West of 28 uh and and and you know there's just a lot of data to show that there's already existing facilities on the west of 28 and uh um and what's happened in our world is it's become a Residential Technology we thought I've been doing this for a long time and we thought it was a mobile technology we thought that people going to use it in their cars as they drive them down Route three or Route 28 or Route 6 um but over the last 20 years um people have adopted it as a Residential Technology people are using it in their homes and their places of business and that structure the home or a building like this or a a commercial facility is a u um um a more structural uh impediment to the telecommunication signal so recognizing that it's a Residential Technology we want to be as close to the residence as possible to bring the height down to to uh uh and because of the limits in uh uh technology the FC I can't build one Tower at the highest point on Cape Cod and broadcast throughout all of Cape Cod we've got to bring them closer to the users and and that's why we're here but at the same time I I recognize that it's a very dense residential neighborhood but we're in an area that it's a 10 acre parcel that's not used residentially that's set back as much as possible from the residential uses and and still satisfies the the Telecommunications objective um I Heard issues about open space um the the Cape Cod Commission is um they tell us to go in areas that are um take advantage of visual buffer and then they say Oh no you're taking up open space and they make us pay a very sizable amount to the Falmouth open space committee I'm not sure the exact name but uh so we make a sizable contribution so that the town can use it to preserve open space so all the other projects on the agenda tonight don't have that restriction they can do whatever they want but because we're subject to cap cut commission regulations because we're subject to Federal Regulations we have an immense more um um um you know restrictions with respect to that uh the Cape Cod Commission engages a whole host of um uh experts um uh environmental protectionists uh they engage independent radio frequency Consultants to compare all the data at a considerable expense and time for us you know we um it took us about May to now it took us about five or six months to get through the commission and the Very extensive review that they do um you with respect to autter notices we comply with state law and and and and uh we uh um and in this particular case um this is more heavily advertised in probably any other development in town because we had to put ads in the paper um when we did the balloon we had to put ads in the paper when we got the cape cide commission someone said hundreds we've spent thousands of dollars in advertising and notices and all the abutters who were required to get notice got multiple notices notices of the balloon notices of this hearing tonight notices of the uh Cape Cod Commission process so it's been very heavily advertised um as much as if not more than any other facility in town um um you know we we try the best we can I can't make a tower invisible I can't U um you know put it so that it has um on the other side of town we're we're so constrained by all the different restrictions by um the technology the demand and all of that I think we've found it's not perfect I don't want to say it's perfect but given the great benefit to the town given the um the area that it's in um we believe that it has um as minimal impact as possible and you know you only have to look at the uh um the land use in the area um you can see how dense it is and yet we found a 10 acre parcel that is um substantially undeveloped surrounded by other Parcels that are substantially undeveloped and restricted by conservation so uh there's really nowhere else that we can go I've heard about West fouth I heard about West fouth the last time we're working on it that's an incredibly challenging neighborhood because um there's a huge um State Park that dominates most of it there's huge wetlands and there's lots of residential development so we haven't been able to identify a place in West Val but we're working on it but this isn't West felma this isn't designed to cover West felma I can't turn up the volume on the Eastern side of thalouth um um and you know on the existing Towers on Thomas Landers Road or or any of those and uh um cover this area so we have to be as close as possible to um um comply with all the other federal regulations that we're subject to so we believe that we have um um addressed all the requirements for special permit addressed all the requirements to the satisfaction of the Cape Cod Commission addressed all the federal regulations and requirements as well and we would ask that the town approve the special permit great thank you um I just have two things I want to say that the abd's list is in here and is over 25 well I live on a excuse me you have to come up to the podium I'm just telling you he he went by the book as far as it goes that's my my point by the book letter of the law Spirit of the law yeah and yes we can do all a lot of things to the letter of the law but I would hope that pier and F that we we compli to the spirit of the law and I live on a Damian my house is in that picture in this flag presentation I did not get a notice but they felt that they should take a picture in front of my house showing that you can't see it so why didn't I get a notice I I can I think woods and be in the parking lot of the church in a one minute walk that's how close I live okay thank you and the other thing I wanted to bring up was I don't know if anybody looked at the cape Cog commission the process that they went through it's pretty darn extensive I don't know if you've really perused through it it's very extensive it's nothing like this heing here it was pretty hardcore come on up if you'd like to address I would like to comment on the Cape Cod uh commission's thing um entirely true in fact John druy is the planning board's representative on that right so I know pretty much they don't have a Butters there and the when the Cape Cod Commission was established a point was made of saying this is not going to just wipe out Municipal local control of a number of things they would respect the role of the local boards and that respect shows up in the document that you just talked about where they say depending on the finding of this board and the decisions and what you're thinking about they will reconsider and I think think that they should reconsider because a number of the assertions made in it about the character of the neighborhood and whether or not it would be affected I at least disagree with others disagree with so I think there are things that had they had a Butters there had they had other people there other than the special pleading of the commercial Enterprise that wishes to make money off of this then they might have come to a different conclusion but I do know they say bring it back to them if there's an issue so it's not open and shut with the Cape Cod Commission okay thank you thanks anybody else up here have any further questions or any further discussion I I apologize but I do have a couple more question I do apologize go ahead for the applicant uh for the applicant uh M Harris brought up a question I think she deserves an answer uh she mentioned that there are other ways of filling the gaps are there any other ways of filling the gaps I apologize I have never answered any question succinctly um and the answer is no but I want to explain something uh very um um uh that's telling here um um in Falmouth already there are lots of what we call small cells and I think um Miss Harris actually referred to them conceptu actually and what I'm just trying to get to my um map here um and there are small attachments that put on telephone poles to cover a small area uh they're not designed to cover a neighborhood or a uh um um a thorough fair but really like almost like an intersection there's uh if you go to the Old Silver Beach parking lot now there's a telephone pole in the middle of the parking lot with some antennas on it and if you look at across the street there's some antennas there and that's not to design to cover the residential neighborhood to the North or the South it's really just to cover the parking lot during the Overflow in um um um here's the map I wanted uh um in um they don't provide coverage it really just provides capacity in dense in dense areas and and if you see here this is where Verizon already has facilities someone mentioned the go to the other side of of Route 28 there's already existing Towers on the other side of 28 that provide coverage to the um the 28 Corridor and then to the um East but um there's still gaps in coverage in the the silver area these little black dots represent where there are already existing small cells so Verizon has already Incorporated um um limited capacity type facilities but it does they're not designed to cover a whole neighborhood which is why we build what we call in our world a macro site so I I challenge you to go to the Old Silver Beach parking lot tomorrow and there's a telephone pole right there um with some antennas on it and if you turn around and look across the street there's another telephone pole that's really designed to cover the parking lot in the summertime not the area you know it's it's it's covering you know we're talking about um 50 feet and 100 feet not at all coverage um um there's a site up here in U um just north of Birch Lane that provid a little bit of capacity but really doesn't cover the area those are very limited type facilities um um they um they they have a lot of there's other similar facilities I think there's one where we are right now probably um three blocks down um on on Main Street but then there's an existing Tower over behind the the fire station that has uh trying to cover the big geographic area um so um Verizon is already utilizing other Technologies to I'd say plug in holes but it's it's really not a coverage issue it's more of a capacity issue so up the top left corner can you tell me what street that is you want to go up here yeah the black do the top left corner uh I don't know the exact name so uh but it looks like wild Harbor Road and then just north of wild Harbor Road Cu uh I'm out there a lot and I cannot send pictures on my phone in that neighborhood and and they're they're like ban Handa AIDS um but not you know and and really what Verizon is trying to cover here is um you know this whole Peninsula up here uh just uh to the um east of wild Harbor and that's a very dense residential neighborhood a lot of customers a lot of users very heavy traffic in the U summertime and then also the the 28 a corridor going uh parallel to Route 28 there's already pretty good coverage along the 28 Corridor um from existing sites to the um East it but it's really this neighborhood here and um someone said I get coverage at home and but what we're trying to provide is reliable coverage coverage that works in the um summertime when there's a huge amount of traffic in the wintertime um when um um there's less traffic in your basement in your uh Second Story in your car in your um you know in in a commercial building or whatever so um you know it's um in my house my coverage doesn't work on my first floor it only works on my second floor uh um sometimes when you go outside if you stand behind the tree you get coverage or but it's if you move this way it doesn't and that's the the whole goal is to provide ubiquitous coverage coverage throughout the entire neighborhood um so that people can rely upon it both um um when they want to talk on the phone but also for public safety reasons go ahead Nick the the one up by the uh 151 that's in kava's land there is that 177 ft or is that 120 foot tower that one right there um um how tall is that what this tells me is that the Verizon antennas are are at 177 ft so the tower is probably 190 ft tall so it be much larger that one there ex is much okay yes information that's privately owned and then there's one on Thomas Landers Road does that actually two on Tomas Landers Road right here and I think they're each um U maybe 180 ft uh but uh um they telling me that the antennas are touched attached at 177 ft so um and that's why um the Verizon antennas at the 120t tower are attached at 115 ft which is why the church Tower says 115 but the structure itself is 120 ft tall do you Happ to know that the highight of the steeple at St Elizabeth that church with the top of that building uh I I didn't know if it off the top of you head I don't have any idea I we can look at the picture but I we just be guessing you all set Nick y good anybody else have anything else up here just one quick question so it's impossible for Verizon to operate at 100 fet is that what you're saying they have for their frequency to get the coverage that you need the monopole has to be at 120 ft it couldn't be at 100 no we see um one of the other requirements of the Cape Cod Commission and it um and it's very common requirement is that we're not shortsighted that we don't build a tower that accommodates just Verizon because um it um AT&T is going to show up next year and say well we want to get on that Tower and we got to make sure we have the height and the structural Integrity we design it so that there's there so one of the things that um the Cap Cod Commission looks at is that both is this the minimum height necessary for Verizon and also the minimum height necessary to accommodate other telecommunications companies so uh and we uh um I didn't provide that to the town of Falmouth but to the cape card commission the the technical data was this this thick and with all the different um uh plots to show like what it would do if we only did 100 if we did 85 or if we did 65 and uh um and it it shows diminished coverage to the point where it's not functional so I case that commission and their independent Consultants look at that very carefully thank you what are you guys feeling up here point of understanding Madam chair with Mr Duffy recused will you be appointing an associate member to his that will be you it's up to you I'm just asking that will be you okay same motion to close unless we have any more input I don't see it motion to close any second oh motion will close in a second any further discussion I it's tough we you know obviously you feel for the abutters um I I do believe that the Cape Cod Commission does do a robust review um this has been out there for months that they've been doing the review there is some public health and safety concerns I believe that the how it does address and unfortunately for the abutters the Telecommunications Act I think does protect the applicant here in multiple instances so um I wish they made a smaller poll I wish they had a poll that was uh more aesthetically uh desirable to the abuts but um I just those two data points between the cape card commission and the Telecommunications Act I think kind of would wrap it up have me to support the applicant in this instance and just to Mrs Harris's Point um uh it does say uh doesn't say antennas it actually says facilities which this would be so the argument that it's not an antenna is you know debatable she may have a valid point but but you can't argue that it's not a facility so we have a motion in a second any further discussion on this side are we debating are we having discussion or we just disc close I'm prar to close then discuss so all those in favor of closing I opposed none any further discussion I don't see that we have a valid reason to uh so motion to approve with conditions I think that's proves it right right along do I have a second second that motion to approve with conditions and a second any further discussion so for findings the review standards we have to find considering is I guess we go these one at a time or do them in mass is the 10 acre parcel suitable for what's proposed yeah under 20 foot finding there would be no impact on traffic flow I don't see that there would be um I suggests that there is dispute as to change in the visual character of the neighborhood with 120 ft uh however that the board recognizes that the 1996 Telecommunications Act prohibits or would otherwise Pro preempt a board imposing uh a condition or a reduction in the height of the monopole will be viewed as arbitrary capricious and most likely be overruled uh or preempted or otherwise struck um there's been no evidence before for of any private view or view easements before the board it's also been the policy the board not to enforce private view uh easements no impact on sewage no impact on public utilities no impact on affordable housing and that there is a decision uh planning and review decision from the Cape Cod Commission in the file just a uh there have been uh decisions and it's as it's written uh if the setbacks aren't met we can but they're by far they are met so it it just the view eement doesn't apply we don't have the ability uh finding in that uh several abutters offered U significant opposition to the citing concerns about property values uh citing concerns about safety sa citing concerns about uh radio frequency or radiation visual Ed visual Aesthetics property values being decreased um proper notice proper notice or expanded notice to Property Owners additional fin anything else I think uh we can acknowledge that the property values potentially are affected but it's still not enough for us to hang our hat on so to speak well there's no evidence uh provided but I agree that there are probably impact it no evidence has been provided I think we should just leave it as that significant concerns and site Studies have been cited but National National they were National um that's it for findings right yes than do you have anything else you think have any other findings no I think there was a an inquiry about um notice and we provided notice um as required by the state in fact we probably provide more notice than is required because we also post on our website and you know that's just a benefit to the public we have no requirement to do that but we did mail to all the abutters as required and you know it's always the problem there's always going to be one house beyond the circumference that you mail to so you know it's I I don't know I I do agree with the applicant that there certainly was more notice here as opposed to any typical application that you see yeah I agree and if we seeded to their request to expand I mean it would be on a slippery slope I mean everyone would be asking for the same thing and uh you know rules are the rules yeah so I think we're ready to vote then uh we got to get conditions oh do conditions first okay I do have one that I would like to um for plants U standard hours of work I don't think we have to worry about traffic or ample site b um what's the I through you madam chairman what is the board's position on requiring a a performance bond in case this comes down anytime soon I don't think that's I think it's absolute applicant has also indicated they're willing to do it that way if this comes you know needs to be if it does become Absol and that it's going to come Absol it's going to come down yeah yeah and I mean there's no guarantee this you know how do we quantify the type I mean the size of the bond by just saying Bond doesn't necessarily I'm going to float a lawyer's suggestion the applicant shall be required to post a reasonable Bond okay just so you know what we can do is um there's engineering standards I get an engineer to certify this will be the cost of removal it's uh and um I just want you to call it a removal Bond not a performance bond so but removal reasonable bond to ensure REM in the removal Bond would that escalate in time with time that's part how they write it that's part of the reasonable okay but I mean you have to uh uh acknowledge that this 20 years entity might not be around 20 years from now so the bond should be to be reviewed every 5 years for um adequacy I'm sure you've done them before so that seems to be a fair outcome every 5 years sure okay we adopt that do we want the fall zone shown I think that they do that through the uh they'll do it through the building department okay any other conditions uh yes so I would recommend that we also um ask the applicant that should the town desire emergency communication access oh it's good they uh rant that so that which you know it's typical um Osprey management plan so that's another usual condition in all of our cell towers that the Ospreys are not touched during nting season so they we ospr are the bane of our existence um and they're very heavily ferally protected because we're federally regulated we're very well aware of the ospre regulations and uh uh in fact at the last meeting someone here offered me an ospry Nest U and they said they give them away in town to uh attract ospre I'm not familiar with that but I guess there were there was a circumstance many years ago where ospre were um Disturbed at an inappropriate time so people were very upset about the ospray so we just put it in there ospray condition yeah go um yeah we have work hours I think we're pretty well covered you know as we pointed out the Cape Cod Commission really did the heavy lift for all the details so just for the viewing public it's not as though RF engineering has not been reviewed it's been reviewed and reviewed some more so you they really have done an exceptional job and that also the height you know the visual difference in height from say 110 to 120 or 120 to 130 from any distance you really can't discern that but what's critical at that some people don't realize is that the cell phones work by line of sight so if the tower is buried in trees it's not going to provide the coverage because it's not above that's all I have she's full of knowledge tonight isn't see T communication expert all right I guess we're ready to vote Yes we are we had a motion in a a second and so all those in favor I opposed none so that's that thank you very much thank you very much 1 and 3/4 hours on a forone conclusion huh 1 and 3/4 hours on a foregone conion do we want a break welcome back do a 5 minute five minute break Madam chair before you minut break before we go to break I just had a quick question e e e e e e e e e go back if I can find my agenda where it usually hides so we're going to pull uh uh 11624 out of order and take it upon us now we have attorney wall I'll read the uh notice of public hearing uh this is application 11624 Scott dresser and agnesa dresser Trustees of 56 Benjamin Drive of 56 Benjamin Drive buxbo Mass they've applied to the zoning board of appeals for a special permit pursuant to sections 240 10.2 a and 240 11.4 A1 small letter I of the code of FMA to raise and rebuild the existing non-conforming single family dwelling and detached garage the property is 44 walk white Landing Road in wat quite um the zoning district is RA the overlay district is Waco Bay Coastal Pond overlay District the flood zone is v13 and it's also designated X there are two previous zoning board of appeals decisions applicable to this property 0124 is a special permit to expand the second floor and raise and reconstruct the garage with a two-car garage my understanding is this is not used and this application is to take the place of that one is that correct Mr wall yes Mr Duffy okay so it's new as opposed to amended it's a new application yes then um there's also special permit 35- 98 to reconstruct the boat house on the property which is not being changed in this special perit the lot size is 25,600 ft² in a zon District which requires a minimum of 40,000 s ft Street Frontage is 96.5 ft in the zoning District which requires 100 minimum of 100 ft walk white Landing Road is a public uh public way at this point the lot coverage by structure existing and proposed it's existing at 13.7% it proposed to increase the 15.6% the limit is 20% so it will be conforming lot coverage by Structure Parking and Paving uh currently 16.3% it'll increase to 28.8% the limit is 40% so it to will be um non be conforming um there's uh the setback the non-conformity to the structure is the setback from the water of walk white Bay which is 38.7 ft uh when it's supposed to be 50 ft but the other setbacks are conforming as to the house however the garage uh is in the front yard and it's 38 ft from the street in the zoning District under the zoning bylaw 50 ft are required and the sideline setback is 2 feet and the zoning B recovery requires 10 ft as I noted there's no changes uh noted for the boat house which is a separate structure the height of the existing uh structure is 22 22t 8 in it's going to increase to 28.9 or 28 92 in um as for the garage I do not have a current height but the exist the proposed height is 18t 82 in in the and 22 ft is the max for an accessory structure uh we have some um referrals which I'm going to take a look at here um the uh Board of Health says this is a five-bedroom home it will remain a five-bedroom home as long as the space over the garage doesn't meet the definition of a bedroom um and the applicant needs to know that an inprocess Board of Health regulation may require denitrification septic system at some time in the future um the engineering uh has issued a um said we have no new comment they refer back to the the previous one uh in 24 and they say we have no new comments except that the applicant has an approved driveway permit with shity on file in our office um the Conservation Commission has advised us that they issued an order of condition on September 25th 2024 for the property um that was uh then water department requires a separate water service for each structure with a 1-in service and a meter on the inside of the building fire department has no comment I think that's it I think that's it FL thank you madam chair members of the board for the record my name is Brian Wall I'm an attorney I have an office in sandwich and as attorney Clow pointed out I I live in Brewster so I do appreciate the board taking me out of order tonight um you always look at the agenda and I was only fourth I did didn't know the first one was going to go 90 minutes but that's that's that can happen a lot in any event I represent the um petitioners uh Scott and I call her AGA dresser and they are obviously the owners of the property at issue 44 requet landing and we're seeking a special permit from the board to raise and replace two pre-existing non-conforming structures the existing house and also the garage that's out front um as you've mentioned there there was a prior permit I I see many of the Faces tonight probably were on the hearing the last time so this is going to be pretty familiar um they did apply for a special permit one year ago we we filed in January and that application was to add some space to the second floor and to do some essentially some renovations to the existing home but what happened um after the permit was issued in March of this year last year um when the when they got to the building phase the contractor came and took a look at the house and noticed that there were some cracks in the foundation and he essentially said you would be better advised to tear down and build a new rather than um try to build on this foundation and so we needed to do something and I thought about amending the permit or filing a new one I consulted with your staff and they suggested that the workload was the same and it's easier and cleaner if there's just a brand new permit so we filed for a new application and and that's why we're here tonight um I want to say two things about the application in respect to the one before um they are taking the opportunity to make a few changes to their plans however um the the location of the structure the shape and size of the footprint and the size of the house are all basically exactly what you approved before on page two of the letter that I submitted to you um there are a list of changes so and I should say what what you see before you this this is the existing home that that's that's there today um and the site plan that we're proposing shows what they want to do one of the changes um let me rephrase that there are seven changes that they're making um some of them are minor relative to grading and that changes the height calculations a little bit and I will talk about that but the three major changes that they're making are when they decided to tear down and rebuild the application to conservation was slightly different because they're in the What's called the FEMA I'm sorry the fou vzone so the fouth Conservation Commission adds 25 ft to FEMA zones and so if you look at the foundation plan which was part of the submissions um you can see here on this drawing that the foundation currently goes like this all around but what they're going to do here is this part of the foundation has to be now pile supported so the footprint of the house to to a human Viewpoint is exactly the same but the part that's closer to wo Bay has to be put on piles because of the Fon beom um the other change was that they swapped out part of their porch um and they're enclosing it and so um they're enclosing 24 Square ft more than what was there before but they reduced the porch by the the same amount so it's it's basically an interior change it's not changing the footprint and they did um the plan that I submitted shows that there are two front steps right here by the walkway but because of those grading changes that I mentioned those two front steps are not going to be built um moving on to uh the presentation about this project so the existing conditions largely read by Mr Duffy um it's a 25,6 00t lot with 96.52% size it has 25,600 where you need 45 and it has 96.5 2 ft of Frontage where you need 100 the house conforms to all setbacks except for the water there's a 50ft setback to the wyet bay and the house is 38.7 the existing boat house is also non-conforming it's 15.9 but there's no changes being proposed to that the garage is non-conforming because it's in the front yard that normally needs a special permit under your bylaw and it doesn't have one but it's pre-existing non-conforming in addition if you look at the side Lot line the existing garage is 2.1 ft from the existing sideline where 10 ft is required so there's a side yard setback non-conformity the proposed project is to raise and replace the dwelling and construct a new dwelling in its place the project will modify the existing footprint of the house in three minor areas um on the South Side you can see here um let me blow this up a little bit the the existing house is shown in very light uh ink and you can see there's a set of stairs here on the south side that are being eliminated and so that will increase the existing setback from 15.1 to 21.4 on the front the existing stairs will be will be replaced with a new Landing which is set back from the road slightly more than the existing stairs but we're already way back from the front yard setback in any event and then on the North side the stairs are being reconfigured and you can see them here um and this was more not from a zoning perspective but because this green area here is a Coastal Bank and so that was that change was made to make the project better from a conservation perspective it increased the setback from the Coastal Bank the garage out front is sought to be torn down and replaced with a larger two-car garage the new garage will be set back 36.6 ft from the road where the existing setback is 38 so the garage is technically getting slightly closer to the road but the reason for that is the existing garage is not uh square with the road it's slanted a little bit and so we're actually just trying to straighten out the the line there um so that will increase the non-conformity by 1 .4 ft the new garage however will be moved back from the 2.1 ft to 10.8 so that will make the side Lot line conforming where it's currently not conforming the height of the new garage will be uh 18 ft 8 1 12 in which is compliant with your 22t requirement so the special permit is sought under Section 24010 point2 A and that author izes the board which I'm sure the board is well familiar to allow these changes as long as the board finds that they're not substantially more detrimental than the existing conditions um then your bylaw at 240-1213 to you that it is it's 25,600 ft so although it's UND sized it's still 6 uh6 acres and it's adequate for a single family dwelling the proposed building coverage will be 15.6% where 20 is allowed so the house is still appropriately sized for the lot and prop uh proposed site coverage is 28.8 where 40% is allowed so we're still well under that even though we're an undersized lot the suitability of the site for the proposed use it's it's a single family residence in a single family residential district and it's been there since 1934 impact on traffic flow and safety uh we would suggest that there will be no impact it's a five-bedroom home now and it will be a five-bedroom home when we're complete with the project so there'll be no change impact on neighborhood visual character including views and Vistas we would submit to you that there will be no add adverse impact on these um concerns the second floor will add some volume that's not there presently but the height conforms to your requirements and in fact it's under height the height is allowed 35 ft and it's in my narrative that the structure will be um 28 feet 9 and 12 in and you're allowed 35 so it's still um substantially under the allowed limit the adequacy of sewage disposal um source of water and drainage uh the project is going to involve a new title 5 septic system I heard the note that it might require a dite if that is what's required so be it but that that's a board of health issue um the project uh does involve an installation of some new water lines and so that's the comment from the water department has been addressed and um the it's on Town water adequacy of utilities and other public services the home is existing it's served by utilities um it does not affect affordable housing either negatively or positively the criteria under the planning boards uh 24-12 are not applicable So based upon all of that we would respectfully submit that the project meets your standards that it's not more nonconform not substantially more detrimental than what is there currently and again there are some net benefits some from zoning the side set back to the garage becomes conforming um there's going to be a new title 5 septic system from an environmental perspective they increase the setback to the Coastal Bank and they have to provide some mitigation planting and this project involves a pile supported foundation so it makes the structure more flood compliant um it was not so much before but now now it will be and so for all those reasons we would ask that you uh Grant the special permit great thanks let's start down to the left you want to start off you can let Tony there you go Tony start us off um Madam chair through you who our zoning administrator does the new Massachusetts uh portable Housing Act apply now in town not yet so I guess the question is how will you be using the second floor of the garage uh yeah that question came up the last time too it's storage it's not heated and I believe the uh the permit the last time put a condition on there for that uh other than that I have now that you've been informed about potential new IIA Sy some I'm I have no other questions okay so what do we call these in construction unknown circumstances or conditions necessitating this um new construction so you'll be coming up on the stretch energy code just looking for another thing to check off is uh Improvement to property under findings it's a very nice project I don't have any other questions I have a couple I see two offices in here and one says office guest uh in the floor plants yeah I see one on the second floor outside the primary bedroom and then one on the first floor near the dining room but I don't see bedroom four either or five so I see an exercise room that's huge so I don't know if I'm missing something here well there's a bedroom called a primary bedroom Y and then there's bedroom one two and three so that's that's four I thought it was five right and then there's another floor oh so the office guest one yeah I think what what happens office office guest room yeah that if it can be closed off it's it's defined as a bedroom right so the Board of Health ruled at that office meets the definition of bedroom so the the client is only seeking to have four actual bedrooms but that meets the definition but there's five now and even including the office as a bedroom there's five after okay that's all I have Frank no I think everybody else has asked the questions I was going to ask so I'll pass go down to down the line here down down the line I like everything that the applicant and uh is doing here the one thing that just unfortunately rubs me personally is the fact that you're 35 45 ft away from the Estuary and you're just putting in the title 5 system and the town is going to spend 60 to $120 million to clean up estuaries and the applicant didn't think that they should maybe take one extra step so I I understand it's a Board of Health piece but it would have been nice if the applicant had move forward and done an IIA I would think I'm off my Soap Box um I remember this before I'm not surprised with the foundation thing um and my other concern back then was the uh the front I pictured somebody driving down that driveway and ended up in the living room I think the uh two feet is an improvement but I still think the issue is there but that's not my uh my uh problem so uh other than that uh it's a nice place in the uh office/bedroom I know I don't accept invitations to waterfront properties unless I have a office in my bedroom so uh I think you hit all the bases here thank you nothing further anybody else have any other questions up here for the public anybody from the public want to comment on this any suggestion suggest we motion to close a second motion to close in a second any further discussion all those in favor of closing I oppose none now we'll do fine and conditions we got a motion to approve in conditions first oh yes we should have that first I think Frank just made that so I'll second yeah there you go now we have it all now we go to findings and conditions okay for findings we have 44 walk quite Landing Road it's in an RA zoning District applied for special permit under 1040 10.2 a to raise and reconstruct a pre-existing non-conforming structure um and the detached garage um there is an existing special permit 0124 and it is the stated intention of the applicant not to exercise that special permit but to use the one that's the subject of this application in lie thereof um the B white Landing Road is a public right of way at this point the lot coverage by structure is existing at 13.7% it will increase to 15.6% in the zoning District which has a maximum limit of 20% lot coverage by Structure Parking and Paving is 16.3% will increase to 28.8% in a zoning District where the maximum coverage allowed is 40% the uh principal structure which is the house is non-conforming as to its setback from the from the water which is the Western uh side of the house it's currently 38.7% it's been represented this will be um the same uh however the uh while the footprint Remains the Same nevertheless there'll be a couple of changes the uh basement portion of the house will now be located outside of the Velocity Zone and that portion of the underside of the house which is in the vzone will be pile supported the foundation will be pile supported um the uh existing garage which will be torn down has a uh setback of 50 ft from the street in a zoning District where uh 50 excuse me a 38 ft in a zoning District or 50 ft is required the new setback will be 36.6% and they need a special permit under Section 241 11.4 a1i for that purpose the sideline will be increased from 2 ft to 10.8 ft so it now will will now be conforming the um height of the house is currently 22 22t 8 in it will increase to 28t 9 12 in 35 ft is the maximum the garage will be in the finished garage will be 18 ft 82 in and as an accessory structure 22 ft is the maximum uh there's a five-bedroom house the Board of Health has approved a Title 5 septic system for the five-bedroom house the conservation commission has issued an order of condition on September 25th 2024 the water service has requested separate water separate services for each structure uh and the applicant has agreed to uh comply with that request there are no letters in opposition no letters in support um the uh and now as for the other findings under Section 2410 point2 a non-conforming structure we find that the prop structure shall not be substantially more detrimental to the neighborhood than the existing non-conforming structure conditions for a special permit under Section 2401 12.1 e we find that the site is adequate for the proposed use the site is suitable for the proposed use there's no discernable impact on traffic flow and safety there's no discernable impact on neighborhood visual character views of Vistas there is adequate sewers disposal and the supply of affordable housing will not be affected and as for the special permit under Section 2 40 11.4 a1i the exu the uh accessory structure uh is will be in the front yard set back 38.6 ft from the street job all done yeah um conditions for plans Town referrals hours of work y space over the garage not to turn into a bedroom applicant stated it was storage um any other conditions you can think of no uh you probably should also request um certification for setx when the foundation's in so that they're yeah okay that's a good one right can't think any other I think that's it anybody come up with any other condition think that's it okay I guess we're ready to vote all those in favor I oppose none thank you very much thank you long drive I'm not complaining about it but it was very nice of Kevin to think of that he thought of it on his own few hours yeah thank you yeah I do I do appreciate anyway have a good evening thank you all right next up we have 51 the masket RO 51 the masket okay um this is application 11424 Paul J bradrick for Apple wamas Avenue Ry New York has applied to the zoning board of appeals for a special permit pursuant to section 24 111.3 A4 of the code of B to raise and reconstruct the existing building uh to exceed 20% of lot coverage by structure uh the property's 51 the masket road in West falma property is located in an RB zoning District um the existing uh single family dwelling is 287 squ ft² the proposed will be 371 Square ft the flood zone is v18 and also noted as ae15 uh there are no previous board of appeals decisions the M the lot size is 12,330 Ft in a zoning District which has has a minimum of 40,000 square ft the street Frontage is 80 ft uh in a district where 100 ft is required under current zoning bylaw masket Road at this point is a private right of way the lot coverage by structure is presently 16.9% it will be increasing to 24.9% the limit is 20% so the net that's the U special permit is needed for the 24.99% the loot coverage by uh structure in the neighborhood for the worksheet is 13.8% uh lock coverage by Structure Parking and Paving is 21 currently 21.9% it will increase to 34.2% in the district for 40% is the limit this is properties in a flood zone so the first floor must be elevated 2 feet above the flood elevation feet of 20 ft here um and that's a require M for the building code to conform to that the um this the structure itself currently conforms to zoning um the nonconformity will be the uh excess parking Paving uh excuse me of the excess lot coverage by structure the height of the of the existing building is 30t 10 in the um proposed height is 34 ft 52 in which gets us pretty close close to the 35 ft maximum in the neighborhood uh engineering department has advised us to watch out for storm water runoff uh and they uh recommend dry Wells for roof runoff the Board of Health has no issues and noted that it must approve an advanced system for the property Conservation Commission has approved uh but there's a note in their referral that they did not approve the November 2024 changes I'm not quite sure what that means and perhaps Mr Clow can EXP explain it um the water department has uh noted that an upgrade of service to 1 in is required and the meters should be inside the structure planning board has no issues fire has no issues the building wants a height and elevation certification uh which we expected at 34 5 12 in and um the building department has also designated nascet road to the east as the front yard there is one letter of support I think there's uh I had three letters yeah three letters okay I missed two so there's three uh good evening Madam chair members of the board for the record Kevin Clow uh I before you tonight representing Paul and Susan broadrick the owners of 51 nascet Road and I'm joined by Chris Harris from Salt architecture who's the architect on this project the broads are seeking permission to raise and rebuild the existing dwelling replace it with a new single family home which will be compliant with flood zone standards so 51 asket I feel like we spent some time on this road recently uh West fouth just south of old silver the lot is 12,330 ft and as Mr Duffy noted it is an RB zoning district and a v18 flood zone presently there's a four bedroom single family dwelling and in garage total Footprints just shy, 1500 square ft the existing structure is conforming to all setback and lock coverage requirements this house is built in approximately 1965 it is not in a historic district and is not on any of historically significant structures the applicants have owned this house since 2013 but have had a f a home and family for over 20 years but they're now looking to make this their full-time residence and their family is growing the house needs significant repair um coupled with their need to expand and its location in a flood zone uh being v18 the scope of repairs and really necessitate compliance with the flood zone standards requires elevation of the structure they must raise uh the existing to rebuild new in compliance with those requirements because of it's ve Zone all habitable space and Mechanicals must be at least 2 ft above the at least 2 ft above the flood zone elevation uh which puts it at at least elevation 20 which is about 9 ft above grade in this case the applicant's uh proposal is certainly in character with the neighborhood it's an attractive design that both complies with the flood zone requirements and is not out of place uh within the neighborhood it maintains the same number of bedrooms as currently exists and will we be replaced ing the existing system with a new denitrification system micro fast um unusually there are no existing non-conformities uh and there'll certainly be no new non-conformities proposed however the resulting law coverage by structure is 24.9% which requires a special permit pursuant to 11.3 A4 of our zoning bylaw that um that portion of the bylaw says that in residential B zoning District law coverage by structure May exceed 20% uh by special permit and a board is asked to consider the size and height of the structures in relation to the neighborhood the effects of Shadow impacts on views and Vistas from public ways and the effect of nitrogen on Coastal embayments the proposed house is certainly larger than the existing but it's not out of character with the neighborhood the lot we did submit a lot comparison worksheet um ironically it's actually below the average footprint um and by no means an outlier for the grow floor area actually there was an application before this board about a month ago uh where 24 over 24 4% lock coverage was also approved on the masket um the applicant is agreeable to uh height certification as noted in the building referral there are limited impacts on shadowing orvs and Vistas naset road is private um and this is situated well away from a Butters in all directions in fact it's cited specifically in order to minimize those impacts on nearby homes there's no negative effect of nitrogen in fact it's an improvement with the installation of a new denitrification system represents significant improvement over the existing conditions we did receive letters in support which are on file which are strongly in favor um there will be substantial Improvement to the landscaping and plantings and this has been approved by concom to miss Murphy's Point um the original plans we submitted had a slight tweak in the um uh ground floor footprint and those have been revised we submitted a revised sheet for that subsequent to the conservation um referral which complied with conservation's the pl's conservation approved uh there are no new dimens dimensional non-conformities there's no adverse effects that overbalance the benefits that have outlined there's nothing about this proposal that is substantially more detrimental than what exists I believe this meets all the requirements of 240 11384 and 2421 e for these reasons I would ask that this board Grant the special permit and I would of course be glad to address any questions you might have attorney CLA you left one thing out what's that what's at the end of the the street just a beautiful beautiful view absolutely one of the best it is neighborhood it truly is yeah it it's it's it's a beautiful Street and and the homes on along that street are really just really well done throughout and it's good size yards it really is lovely anyway I just wanted to catch up no I I I I you know I appreciate you pointing out Mark let's start off with you down there um only thing I really have it's nice job I mean in the public can use the beach at the End of the Street take their litter with them it's very nice um the only thing is um it's a new one on me as the uh corners of the building on the stake uh they were it was uh noted and there was another one later uh um P building what's a p stand for I don't know prop proposed building I never seen I thought it was proposed building so yeah that's a guess but I'd say it's a very good guess that sounds yes that sounds right of course it's very agreeable tonight that sounds good it's a little scary isn't it yeah oh we want to get out early too that's not going to happen um no I'm fine it's a nice spot nice job yeah it certainly is um time goes to the architect too nice plan yeah he's you're going to have to show us the elevations real quick um while you're doing that attorney Clow the the lot itself and then there's a fairly large separation to the stone wall so what's whose property is that between the the lot itself and the stone wall um this is actually the association property yeah it's the association owns the land that goes beyond the just kind of was confusing when I was walking yeah no it's it's a fair question and and we we looked at a a number of things um with that but this is the that's the South elevation so that's looking from theam masket North and then if you're looking at it from um this should be have the architect it can help you the water obviously but yeah that that's the main elevation that'll be presented oh very nice job looks looks very good I have no other questions and thank you for uh the septic me too Frank anything uh no I I passed the other direction I'm I'm passing too Jim no no questions absolutely lovely Tony just an absolute wonderful design so obviously a a neighborhood and transition MH and I suspect that many more houses will be coming before this board we we have another one coming in a few weeks acoss the street we saw the stakes comp both I said these better be all windows and they're pretty they're a little different yeah which is kind of nice well you know I Chris gets enough accolades but he does a really wonderful job of not duplicating designs and his I think his work is excellent I I do have just one more question what part of the BW then I understand the height but I what I don't understand what part of the BW allows us to go above that height just because it's in the flood zone we're not going above 35 ft I thought it was at oh I4 I thought it was 44 no so that's that's the elevation Mr Puchi so um The Heights measured from existing grade not the height of the building it says maximum Building height 44 ft 7 and A4 so that's the but that's the elevation so if you look here the proposed Building height is measured from the average grade yeah so that is 34 44 is above ngvd so that's above sea level I then I misread the plan thank you so so we're only 34 ft five and 5 and a half inches thank you very much you have anything project all right Mo anybody from the public oops good job there's nobody from the public here from the public I anticipated I thought he might want to correct something who knows motion to close there you go Motion to close in a second um we vote vote the motion to close yeah I I I opposed none I'll make a motion for me Scott no I don't see any discussion so I'll say motion to approve with conditions okay I'll second we'll have findings 51 nased Road in West bouth is located in an RB zoning District it's also in the flood zone v18 and ae15 uh there are no previous zoning board of appeals decision on file the lot is 12,330 Ft uh in a zoning District where the minimum is currently 40,000 sare ft Frontage is 80 ft in a zoning District where the minimum is currently 100 sare ft The Mask road is a private ride of way at this point the lot coverage by structure uh existing at 16.9 will increase to 24.9% which exceeds the 20% limit of the zoning byaw and will require the special permit uh under 2401 11.3 A4 U according to the worksheet submitted by the applicant the neighborhood average lot coverage by structure is 13.8% the lot coverage by Structure Parking and Paving is 21 currently 21.9% will increase to 34.2% within the 40% limit prescribed by the zoning bylaw um the principal structure itself conforms to the zoning bylaw as to setbacks and the proposed building will be the same the height of the existing building is 30 10 in the height of the uh proposed building will be 34 ft 5 1/2 in uh we note that the Building Commissioner will require a height certification because of its uh closeness being close to the 35t maximum of the zoning bylaw um the Board of Health uh has noted that it must approve a dite system for the property uh the uh Conservation Commission has approv the property with an order of condition uh the applicant has agreed to meet water the water department suggestions for upgrading the service and meter um there'll be no change in the name in the number of bedrooms uh under Section 240 11.3 A4 the special permit is needed for 25% uh to go up to 25% lot coverage by structure with the consideration for the size and height relative to the average size and height of the neighborhood the average is 13 .8 the proposed is 24.9 there's been no indication that there will be any Shadow problem uh Shadow problems on adjacent property views and Vistas from the public way are not affected here it's a private way and also the uh effective nitrogen on the coastal emment will be resolved by the dite system to be approved by the Board of Health for the special purpose permit generically uh under Section 2401 12.1 e we make the finding that the site is adequate for the proposed use the site is suitable for the proposed use there'll be no impact on traffic flow and safety the impact on neighborhood visual visual character views and vors will not be impaired uh there's adequate sewage disposal and will not affect the supply of affordable housing another fine job compliance with the FEMA flood zone requirements will improve the town's Coastal resiliency yeah say so conditions ads built for the ridge height y her plans all uh app apply to the board of hell for further approval of the D9 system that was to be determined in the future okay that can go into all boards I think okay mhm time um what time can we think of any other ones dine um certification for lot coverage yeah oh yeah okay good we only just did the height so both that's right have everybody certify I think that's it though huh I think that's it I have I have a question on the certification for lot coverage so the height certification happens at framing um when would the timing be for the certification by log coverage because I just want to make because that's going to be dependent on everything else getting built out deck stairs um yeah right it's compl yeah so juste I guess prior to certificate of compliance certificate documen yeah have to be I just I I wanted to think that through a little bit you got to wait till bu out yeah I think we're all set right you all set good I'm good attorney CL we're all set and call worse all right all those in favor oppose none great thank you very much thank you keep on moving beautiful all right let's keep them going here next we have 13 Cricket in Woods Hole uh this is application 11524 submitted by Benjamin denla and Sarah Reber trustees they live at 6405 Road Chevy Chase Maryland they've applied to the zoning board of appeals for a special permit pursuant to section 24102 A of the zoning bylaw to raise and rebuild the existing non-conforming single family dwelling at 13 Cricut Lane in the Woods Hole Village of Falmouth the property is located in an RC zoning District uh there's no applicable uh Coastal Pond overlay District the flood zone is ae3 the existing structure is 289 sare ft the proposed structure is 2,688 square ft there's no previous zoning board of appeals decision on file the lot size is 17,0 542 ft in a zoning District which currently requires a minimum of 40,000 square ft Street Frontage is 70 ft in a zoning District which currently requires 100 square excuse me 100 ft of Frontage cricket Lane is a private right of way at this point the existing lot coverage by structure is 8.3% it will be increased to 8.6% within the limit of 20% is prescribed by the zoning bylaw the lot coverage by Structure Parking and Paving is 11.9% it will be increased to 15.3% within the limit of 40% as referred to in the zoning bylaw um the uh nonconformities are on the East it's 9.7 sideline and on the North which is the street it's set back 16.2 um feet from the street so those are the two non-conformities the other uh dimensions are conforming to the zoning bylaw the height of the structure existing is 27t 52 in the proposed height I have it at 28 point ft excuse me 28 ft estimate cuz I couldn't figure it out by looking at the plan 29.9 299 and a half 299 and a half yeah I couldn't do it either print wasn't very good all right so there's so there's no new uh non-conformities the uh engineering department has referred us to the storm water regulations uh they recommend dry well for the roofs and the septic system must be at least 10 ft separation from all Town utilities the Board of Health uh has advised us that they have approved a dite system for a four-bedroom house the Conservation Commission has issued an order of condition on January 15 2025 the water department requests an upgrade to a 1-in service and again put the meter inside finding board no Fire and Building have no comment we had three letters in support thank you again uh Madam chair members of the board for the record Kevin Clow uh on this application we I am will be representing Sarah Reber and Benjamin denla the owners of 13 Cricket Lane again joined by Chris Harris from Salt architecture we are seeking permission to raise and rebuild the existing non-conforming dwelling and structures and replace it with a new single family dwelling uh this property was a new one to me Cricut Lane is tucked in tight in the center of Woods Hole if you blink you will miss the street um I didn't know it existed until until this time until this application came up but the lot is bigger than you'd expect it's uh 17542 ft uh residential SE zoning and an ae13 flood zone so presently there's a four bedroom single family dwelling uh and shed with a total footprint of 1460 ft as you've seen it's in very poor condition we had to bushwack our way in it is it is in very poor condition um the existing dwelling is non-conforming front yard setback is 16.2 where 25 is required side yard setback to the east is 9 .7 where 10 is required otherwise conforming to lot coverage requirements this house was built in 1920 approximately uh also not in a historic district or on a list of historically significant structures the applicants purchased this recently but have been coming to its hole for majority of their lives um as of noted the hous is in need of significant repair which is putting a g given a location in the flood zone uh in the scope of repairs they it is really necessary to um comply with flood zone requirements and to ele raise the structure in order to elevate it to meet those standards so in this case it has to be because it's an AE flood zone at least one foot above the flood zone elevation um which is elevation 14 which is about 2 to 3 feet uh above grade depending on where you are in a lot so the front of the house uh has to be about 2 feet above grade and the rear of the home has to be about 4et above grade because it's slopes downward the applicant's proposed dwelling is attractive in design um it's in character with what I'll call The Eclectic nature of Woods Hole maintains the same number of bedrooms uh replaces a long outdated Cesspool with a new four bedroom denitrification system the existing non-conformities are either improved or eliminated uh the front yard setback is effectively the same um it it's a very minor Improvement at 16.2 to 16.3 um but the side yard set back to the east although also a minor Improvement eliminates it as a non-conformity because it moves to 10 and 1/2 ft the lot coverage will remain conforming uh lot coverage by structure proposed at 9.7% and structures Paving and parking is proposed at 14% both well below the allowable thresholds of 20% and 40% respectively proposed Ridge height is 29 ft 9 12 in um and again it will comply with flood zone requirements at post construction given the existing non-conformities this does require a special permit pursuing to section 240 10.2 a under that section pre-existing non-conforming structures may be changed by special permit provided the not substantially more detrimental than what exists we asked to consider the standards of 240 12.1 e and whether or not the alteration creates any new dimensional non-conformities impairs views and Vistas and reasonably conforms to the neighborhood here again there's no new non-conformities being created the existing non-conformities are uh either improved or eliminated the design in is in character with the neighborhood uh Woods hold as I said is many things but cookie cutter it is not this is a unique design uh that draws from a lot of traditional elements and makes uh excellent use of the available space and as I said fits in with the eclectic nature of Woods Hole there's no effect of n of nitrogen in fact again it's an improvement um we're installing a new denitrification system which has already been reviewed and approved by the Board of Health and I should note that the system has been designed uh with H20 loading in order to provide for parking over the septic uh we did receive support of three of the closest neighbors so that's the owners of seven 12 and six Cricut Lane who are overwhelmingly in support of the project this project repres presents a significant improvement over the existing conditions it's a dramatic improvement over uh the the property certainly uh not just of the dwelling but also of the lot in general concom has issued an ordered conditions uh so there'll be significant removal of invasives and uh restorative plantings in their place um there's no new dimensional non-conformities there's no adverse effects and certainly none that would overbalance the benefits that we described there's nothing about this sub proposal that is substantially more detrimental than what exists believe it meets all the requirements to 240 10.2 a and 240 12.1 e and for those reasons I would ask that you grant the special permit and would of course be glad to address any questions that you might have great you want to start off down this end oh I would have thought You' get a house in there but looks like you can Tony you're happy D night oh got a D night I'm happy I mean I other than taking 3 days to walk back out of the Jungle um I mean that's after a a lot of clearing that is yes I I mean we've had we've had a team in there we've had blue flax design in there ripping out a ton of stuff so that people could even get onto the lot well it was amazing let's put it that way I think obviously it's a wonderful Improvement to the uh Community well done no more questions uh attorney clar I grew up in wle and I was not even aware that that was there so yes but no I have no questions thank you Frank this is is a significant Improvement yes could you use another magc to some towns some towns when there in there's EBA applications require you to print out like Map Quest directions and I actually thought about it in this case this is not substantially more detrimental okay I know a lot of people name their houses is this going to be called the bamboo house or all the bamboo I we can talk to them about it I don't think I don't think they've gotten that far um but you know it's uh it's it's in the running it's on the short no it's a a fantastic change from what's there so that'ss off to the owner no questions oh I guess um on the on page 19 of the application item seven uh attorney Clow where they were talking that the plans not to scale and we're not clear distance say you know have you had any discussion about that on the septic system and how close it is to the town's drainage system so I I mean I was a little confused because the plans are scale I mean they're specifically scaled um but you know I it was approved by the Board of Health and um I believe that Tim actually revised the plans to locate the the system and Tim Santos and it was fine okay yeah because they they said that could have an impact on the site layout potentially I think what happens sometimes is when when when the plans get submitted and if they get scanned in if they only get the scan copy they don't scale at that point point because the the contraction and expansion of them but the hard copies of the plans that we submit are to scale okay thank you um hey I've seen a lot of bamboo around town that was some of the robust thickest robust it's like you know you imagine bamboo most of the stuff around here you can just RAB it and crush it this is diameters it's yeah and the uh the barrier that they use next door is actually effective and working yeah and then uh just want to add when I got down in the back there I started having flashbacks I thought I was back in Kon in' 68 walk the bike path right past my office on Locust Street there's walls but not that R some good areas that stuff is like nothing I've seen around here it's like bamboo everywhere else like I said back at Nom do they have to go onto a budding property to clear this L uh I don't believe so um but the the abutters have expressed support and you know I think that everyone I don't think anyone's going to be upset about this project moving forward down there so except for the rats if there has to be some cooperation with neighbors we'll of course I'm sure you'll get it you got three letters support from from the three closes the butters really yes okay motion to close second we got to hear from the public oh there is no public anybody from the public like to comment on this thank you for not commenting so we have a motion in a second let's vote on the close all those in favor of closing I oppose none and we'll need a motion before we do findings motion to approve with conditions second that we have a motion in a second to approve let's do some findings 13 Cricut Lane in Woods Hole is located in an RC zoning District uh there's no Coastal Pond overlay District it's the flood zone as ae13 there are no previous zoning board of appeals decisions on file the lot size is 17542 squ Ft in a zoning District which currently requires 40,000 the street Frontage is 70 ft in a zoning District which currently requires a minimum of 100 ft Cricket Lane is a very private right of way it's home we want we want very double secret probation L coverage by structure uh is 8.3% it will increase to 8.6% the limit is 20% it will conform the lot coverage by Structure Parking and Paving uh is 11.9% it will increase to 15.3% uh the limit is 40 so that will conform the existing structure has two uh nonconforming setbacks the street is only 16.2 ft and the uh the east sideline is 9.7 ft but there will be no new non-conformities the height of the existing building is 27t 5 1/2 in the height of the proposed building will be 29 ft 9 1/2 in and this is due to FEMA requirements um the engineering department storm water and dry Wells uh will be conform will be complied with along with the comment that any septic system must be located potentially Town utilities the Board of Health has approved the D9 system for four bedrooms Conservation Commission has issued an order of condition on January 15 2025 the water department requests upgrades of the um service to one in and the meters be inside and there are three letters in support with respect to uh I think the non-conforming structure which it is uh may be altered or or extended uh shall not be substantially more detrimental to the neighborhood than the existing non-conforming structure and we so find the Gen generic requirements for a special permit under 240 Section 12.1 e we find that the site is adequate for the proposed use it is suitable for the proposed use there'll be no negative impact on traffic flow and safety there'll be no uh negative impact on neighborhood Vis visual characters views and Vistas there's add Provisions for the disposal of sewage and there'll be no impact on the supply of affordable housing any other findings you have okay conditions per per plans Pur board referrals um work hours work hours I don't think we need any certification stuff right the height is 29 no any other conditions you can think of anybody they find any panda bears [Laughter] Downton natural resources lot of invasives are going to have a hard time getting rid of okay I think we're in good shape we ready to vote all those in favor I oppose none thank you all thank you very much appreciate your time tonight thank you than all right we're moving along to minutes nember 21st and December 5 November 21 and December 5 motion to approve second motion to approve in a second has everybody read them we're all set all those in favor of approving November 21 24 and December 5 24 say I I oppose none okay zoning administrator updates I'm good you're good we all did a great job we're all good board discussion Jets 21409 left the second per it's two to one um board updates we all did the site visit good job um future agenda mam chairman through you I think it's some point we should probably have a discussion about time management and of of comments from the public yeah I need to do better tonight I did that again no it's didn't ask for how much more she wanted that's all no well I did ask George about it I feel when we have the 40 BS I have to let people I absolutely agree and I have to now rain back cuz I'm not doing 40 BS all the time and start to time better I I agree I need to get a better grip on it I don't want to do it tonight though no no but I I understand I do and it's hard the colored clock yeah one of these days go but anyway I do agree with you I I do want to do that anyway our next meeting is February 6th at 6 p.m. Mark you want to help us out here there you go second hi all those in favor I