All right, welcome to the zone. County Board of Appeals. The board will be entering into executive session under uh GL 330A section 21 A3 to discuss strategy with respect to litigation on the matter of
809 Sandwich Road and 0 Sandwich Road Lot 003 East Falmouth, where discussion in open session would have a detrimental impact on the town's litigation position. Following the executive session, the board will reconvene in open session and
will invite the public back to the meeting at that time. >> I make a motion to that effect. >> Second. >> We have a motion by Frank and a second by Jim. Roll call. >> I Peterson I. >> Duffy I. >> Murphy I. >> Mors I. >> Patruchi I. >> Annie I.
>> There's mud eye. Welcome to the zoning board of appeals. Again, thank you all for your patience. Uh, please silence all cell phones and note that this meeting is being taped by MCTV. >> Any private party recording this hearing, please step up to the podium to
request permission. I'll introduce the board and the staff. On my far right is Mark Finan. To his left is Scott Peterson. To my right is Frank Duffy, the clerk. I'm Suzanne Murphy, the chair. To my left is James Morse, the vice chair. And to his left, Tony Patucci. And then we have Nick Haney.
Norin Stockman. Stockman is our zoning administrator and Ashley DLO office assistant. The zoning board of appeals is charged with applying the state zoning statutes as well as the town's zoning bylaws and reviewing and voting on applications. All decisions are made
through the public hearing process. Our goal is to hear testimony from the applicants and the public and to allow a full and fair discussion of the project prior to closing the hearing process and reaching a decision. Number one, to begin chairing, the clerk will read the public announcement for the hearing and
read pertinent pertinent information from the file. Two, the applicant or the applicant's representative will then have 15 minutes to make a presentation. Time may be extended by vote of the board. Three, the board will then question the applicant. Four, the public
will then be invited to comment. Comment should be limited to two minutes and be strictly related to the proposal. All members of the public wish to wishing to speak should wait to be recognized by the chair and should come up to the podium. State your name and address for the record. Speak into the mic. It will
not amplify your voice and record audio for FCTV viewers. And before we take up the first hearing, um, if anyone wants to make a public comment on anything that's not on our agenda tonight, you're welcome to come up. Anybody?
So, our first is a request for a continuation for 07125 Fashion Food LLC. >> Um, want to make me a motion? >> I can't. I have to recuse on this. >> Sorry. >> Otherwise, I'd be happy to >> want to make a motion. Scott, I can make
the motion. >> Yes, you can. >> Um, I can make my own motion. You are correct. I uh we we are continuing Fashion Food LLC with a their request to February 26th. I will need a second.
>> Second. >> That's Wendy's in case they didn't know who it was. >> It's Wendy's. Fashion Food LLC equals Wendy's. So we have a motion and a second. >> What was the date again, sir? >> February 26th. >> February 26th. >> Ready to vote? >> Sure.
>> All those in favor? I >> I oppose. >> Two abstensions. >> Thank you, Madam Chairman. >> Then we just had a request to pull something out of order and it's 061 20 M Echoland Development LLC zero
personal. Thank you, Madam Chairman. For the record, Peter Freeman representing Echko, the applicant, and Ed Montero is here, and also Brian Wall, the attorney who represents the neighbors who had filed an appeal. It's one of the few times I think I'll need far less than my
five minutes or whatever it is. So, as my letter dated January 20th, 2026 said, uh, we worked out a settlement rather than going to trial. We appreciate the effort by the neighbors and Mr. Wall. So what we have done as the request in my
letter says uh we have at the neighbor's request asked that you modify the permit by getting rid of the requirement the condition for a fence that we uh have more robust landscaping that's spelled out in great detail including on a plan that I attached colored plan for ease of
reference and thirdly that we change I'm not even sure this needed approval but we put it in there full disclosure uh my client has agreed to provide water lines off of his new water man to uh the plaintiffs. There
were three parties. Um the culis, uh Patricia Harris, and um over overholes. Uh so we're going to bring lines up to the lot lines. Um and if they want to have the town water, they can do that. Uh so that in essence is the request for
the change. We think that it certainly is insubstantial under the 4DB regulations. Nothing else changes. The number of units is the same. Bedrooms, the location, the plans, everything is exactly the same. It's just asking you to bless this uh this agreement with the
neighbors, which is really a win-win for everybody. I think Brian may want to say a couple of words, but it's a win-win because the project will go forward. The plaintiffs are happy, excuse me, and there will be three new affordable homes for Felmouth residents, first-time home
buyers. So, I'll stop there. Uh Brent, if you want to say anything and then if you have questions, of course I can answer or Red can answer. Thanks. >> Thank you, Attorney Freeman. >> Um good evening through the chair, members of the board. Um I'm Brian Wall. I represent the three butters that Mr.
Freeman mentioned. Um Dan Colori, Patricia Harris, and Mr. and Mrs. Overholds. Um I'm not going to repeat what Peter said. I would just simply like to say that um my clients did have some concerns with the permit. They did appeal and after a couple of years of
litigation. Uh the parties engaged in extensive negotiations and they reached this agreement that essentially calls for some enhanced planting along the property line shared with the abutters which again I'm going to share Mr. Freeman's words. We think it's a win-win. It provides some screening for
my clients but it also provides screening for the new owners of the homes that will be built. And secondly, during the course of the litigation, it was discovered that there was a conflict between some drainage proposed by the developer and some existing water lines
um that served Mr. Colori and Ms. Harris's property. And so we reached an agreement where those lines are going to be abandoned so that the drainage can go in and the exchange for that was to provide new water lines from the new water man. My clients support this um
and request that the board approve the proposed changes to the permit and as an insubstantial change as well. Thank you very much. >> Great. Thank you. >> Want a motion? >> Got a motion. >> Jim's got it. >> You got it. >> Uh sure. Just for the purpose of the record and anyone else in the audience
or watching, uh 760 CMR has very specific criteria as to what constitutes a substantial change. Everything that's proposed this evening uh does not qualify. So make a motion, Madam Chairman, pursuant to 760 CMR 56.074D
that the changes proposed are insubstantial and to allow them. >> Second. >> We have a motion in a second. Jim and was it Scott Mark? Sorry. Everybody all set? All those in favor?
>> Opposed? None. >> Thank you very much. Appreciate it. Okay, then we move on to 06525 Habitat. >> Good evening. >> Good evening, Madam Chairman, members of the board. Warren Brody for Habitat for
Humanity of Cape Cod. Just to remind you, when we were last here, we had recently received a peerreview letter from Beiels and Thomas dated December 2nd, 2025. We needed some additional time to respond to that. The response has taken
the form of a letter from Horesley Whitten Group, Mr. Joe Henderson, who's here tonight, which resulted various changes to our plans and responses uh to the individual comments made in the peerreview letter.
I think I would leave it to Mr. Henderson to address the changes that have been made and any questions that you have, if I may. >> Sounds like a plan. Great. Thank you. >> Hi. Good evening. >> Hello. >> Uh, Madam Chair, is it all right if I share some uh
>> Let's do it. >> TV's on. All right. So, what I'm showing here is our updated site plan. As uh uh attorney mentioned, we have uh responded to all the comments from the
peer reviewer. There were 73 comments. Um we just did an individual response to each. But I thought what I would do here is pull out some of the changes to the plans that resulted from those comments and then um pull out some of the other you know maybe more important or seems
like what was the most critical items that we had talked about at past meetings and then from there I can um take you know field any questions related to that peer review letter or anything else. So um I guess the first thing that I wanted to show is that um
>> maybe I can zoom in or not but I'll just point with the cursor. We've added a uh a pulloff for the mail kiosk. That was one of the comments. So, there's now an area to to pull off the main entrance drive um if you're picking up your mail. Um there was a comment about the
driveways and making sure that the cars could park outside of the right of way in the driveways. And so, we made an adjustment. It was only one lot that it affected. So, we adjusted the driveway for lot one. So now all the lots have two parking spaces outside the right
ofway. Um we also um added pole lighting to each individual home. So each home similar to what's shown um or what was done at willit way um there'll be a pole light at each home that will be controlled and come on at dusk or or you
know provide lighting throughout the the subdivision. And so there'll be uh 14 of those throughout the drive uh the >> May I ask a question at this sure madam >> chair. >> All right. So you're putting light poles two things uh at the end of every driveway that are come on every night.
>> Who's maintaining those lights? >> How are they going to be maintained? >> So I think they would be the homeowner's um responsibility. >> I know I know that. But >> the whole idea of giving up street lights, this is a safety issue, right? It's a very dark area. It's a safety
issue. The proposal you're uh providing right now is that the homeowners, individual private homeowners will be responsible for lighting up the neighborhood. Um and if they don't do that, then it defeats the whole purpose.
Uh but you have a homeowners association who could become responsible for that. Um and the other part of that is that um are these docs not compliant? because that's too much to ask. Doc Sky friendly
because you're taking a beautiful forested area and now you're adding all of this light. So, are they doc are they going to be dock sky friendly lights? >> They can be dark sky friendly. They can be uh down lit. But the other thing is these will only be six feet tall the
poles. So, they're not going to have a large spread of light outside of the neighborhood. >> Right. So I would just to finish up I would hope that this board would require you to have dark sky friendly and we all have there is a definition for that versus imposing uh dark sky compliant
which is more costly but the issue is is maintenance of those lights. Why would this board give up the safety issue to an individual homeowner without a guarantee of maintenance when you have a homeowners association? We also have an issue there about how
much the homeless association monthly or yearly dues are because they're never going to be able to suffice. But the bottom line is that's a concern I this board has to consider is means of the lights or then just put lights in the street and have the homeowners
association maintain those. So that's something I'm going to I'm going to certainly bring up again before the end of this whole thing. >> Sure. Yeah. And right now the the proposal is to put in the polemounted lights from the you know from the homes. So, >> but is anybody hearing what I'm saying? May I ask the attorney is he hearing
what I'm saying? >> I am hearing what you're saying. I happen to live in a in a homeowners association in Wait that requires us to have our a light at the end of our driveway that's lit from dusk till dawn.
And we do that. But it's part of the homeowners association. >> Every individual homeowner is maintains their own light and I don't know of anybody who isn't maintaining their own light. >> We can condition. >> Yes, that's all I want to get across. I appreciate >> it's a condition in our homeowners association covenants actually.
>> No, I appreciate that. I just wanted to hear it from you. That's all. >> I appreciate that. >> And we can certainly insert something of that nature in our covenants. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Great. Thanks. So, um I guess I'll move on to the other item that we had talked about extensively was the wall at the
last hearing. So, um we've made an adjustment to our entrance drive. We've sh shifted it to the west. So, now the um entirety of the eastern wall will be saved. It's not going to be um removed or rebuilt or or anything um as part of
the project. the the consequence is that the western wall would have to be relocated and um rebuilt. So we >> with the same material >> same material. Yep. Rebuild the wall. Um the other good news >> same uh same fashion as the the well
call it the left side east side. >> So I think what we would look into doing >> can >> it appears to be a mortared wall. So there may be the ability to take it apart in pieces and then take chunks of it away and bring it back. So, Habitat is is looking into some masons that can
advise on that aspect of it, but the the intention is to rebuild the wall with the same materials or take it apart in in large pieces >> as close to >> correct, you know. Yep. So, the like I said, the eastern side will remain as
is. And um the other part that we talked about was the site distance, right? The site distance lines. um we had gone ahead and I have a figure here I can share. So we produced the site um a site
distance exhibit um as part of the the request from uh the peer reviewer and the board. So um what we found in doing this is that um you can see the wall itself is entirely outside of the sight triangle. So therefore, it is not
impeding the sight distance for vehicles coming to a stop here at the end of uh the proposed road. So they can again it can stay as is. Um it can have the large tall you know portion of it is set far enough back from the road >> not an issue >> that it's not an issue. So we did do
that analysis. Obviously we'll we've sent this to Beals and Thomas to to review as part of their due diligence in um in our response letter. So, um, we did look at that and it it's promising that it will be able to remain. >> So, just quick, sorry. >> No, sorry.
>> Just for a clarification. So, it it mentions you have the 200 ft at a uh low speed. Is the low speed 20 m hour? >> I think it's 30 m hour. That's typically what the traffic engineers the other part of this we did, you know, um collaborate with the traffic engineer,
Vanessa Associates, who you know is, you know, is this is kind of what they do more often. So, um they're on board with this particular all the um the details of this the 200 ft the 14 1/2 ft offset from the road to the sight triangle
line. So, that was that's all been coordinated uh with them. And not that it um it really doesn't matter. The the height of the wall was a question before, but because the wall is set far enough back, it is not an issue with the height. >> So it was a 2 and 1/2 ft
>> close to original, I think, is >> Yeah. So the two >> people happy. >> The 2 and 1/2 ft was mentioned in the traffic that accounts for a foot of snow on top of the wall. So um the actual object eye vision site is 3 and 1/2 ft.
So it's a moot point because it's not in the line of vision. >> Correct. >> Yeah. >> Madam Chair, my concern would be how will the west side of the wall be demonstrated on a plan since if we approved this it would be approving per plans. So will you have uh materials and
and manner of rebuilding on on the plan? So, right now our plans do show, you can see here, this is the the the wall um the new version of the the wall to the same exact footprint as the old. It's hard to see here, but there's a a highlighted section. This is where the
old wall was. So, we're sliding it over maybe 20 ft to the west. >> I think that's great. >> It's really great, actually. >> Yeah, it was great to Yep. Um, so that was this the site distance in the wall discussion. And then the last thing I
wanted to talk about was the uh the sidewalks. There was a request for a waiver of sidewalks as part of our application. Um and the the peer review did recommend sidewalks. So um we have you know the applicant doesn't feel that
sidewalks would be warranted here at this site. We looked at the the surrounding neighborhoods. There's no sidewalks on uh Needles or Cameron. the closest sidewalks are actually out at Wild Harbor and um out to Old Maine. So,
um that was one kind of point that we wanted to just mention to the board. The other was >> may I just get some input get some input on your sidewalk rationale? The rationale is that you did not put them at will way and there were several other places that previous board did not
require you to do. I'm not a big fan of sidewalks, but they become a safety issue. The argument I think you're making is that, well, you didn't approve that, you didn't require that last time, so why would you require it this time? But that completely that just
you negate the whole safety issue. If you are going to put the sidewalks in, is it because they're not required for the safety of the community? Who cares if this a previous board didn't put it in, didn't require it? Is it because you've covered the safety issue, the
children walking on the street, the children being picked up, getting off buses? Is that really why you don't want this? >> I think based on Habitat's experience, a development of this density, they don't uh typically include a sidewalk.
>> What I'm asking the the we our peer says you should put a sidewalk in. And I have to believe that's because of safety. The argument is well, you didn't require it on someplace else. Is it that safety is now compromised or there is no compromising safety?
>> Well, I think Habitat feels there's no compromise in safety. >> All right. I I can't take that any further. I appreciate that. Thank you. >> Can I just speak to that? >> Sure. >> Um whether or not it's been allowed, not allowed, various places. The issue isn't
uh whether it's been done elsewhere or what it would cost even. The issue is what do you need sidewalks for? Is it important to have a sidewalk so you get from one house to another? Is that really the use that we're concerned about? >> No. >> And the only thing I can see is maybe
people going down to get their mail at the kiosk >> would want to have a sidewalk going down there. >> I'm asking the question because of the argument that was made in the response. And what my concern is children primarily. I realize this is a culde-sac
not well a culde-sac it is. And there probably is a low safety factor here. But the argument wasn't that there wasn't a safety issue was that well the board never required this before. So what you're saying is
in your professional belief there is no safety hazard by not having a sidewalk there. >> I would agree with that. I would say it's a matter of usefulness. The sidewalk is really not that useful in a small subdivision like this. >> Okay. >> People aren't going from house to house
around the circle. If they are, they can go straight across the circle. >> All right. Just one board member. That's all. >> Thank you. >> I think the last um that was that was the last kind of plan item I wanted to talk through. Um, the last thing I just
wanted to go over was as Warren had said that we've submitted the supplemental materials to Beiels and Thomas and so the board knows we're planning to meet with them to review our responses. We'll um and then we'll hopefully at the next hearing we'll be able to report that
we've uh you know everything's been agreed to and all the peer review comments have been addressed. So we've we've kind of had preliminary discussions to meet with them kind of the middle of the uh the second week of February. Um and and with that I I'll just take
any other questions that the board may have. >> Want to start down there, Mark? >> I Yeah, I um we get back on the sidewalk issue. I mean I I personally think it's important for
people to safely traverse the neighborhood to Benjamin Nye Road. Uh but um that's my opinion. Other than that, I'm glad you saved the wall and I'm sure the neighborhood is um
happy as well. It's a nice feature item, but um that's really about it at the moment. You pretty much covered the rest. And um could you respond to comment 13 in the document, please?
reviews on it 13. >> Well, we have some abutters and they're not on town water. They're on wells. And right now, when you have uh potential detection limits, obviously over the
next 5 or 10 or 20 years, those detection limits are going to be reduced. Has no one looked at the potential? Uh, we just had an applicant come in front of us where the developer ran a couple of water lines and stubbed them off. Has there been no thought process on
potentially doing the same thing for these butters? So, we I mean, we've had some discussion about the water line. Um, we are bringing the water line halfway down the frontage of the property as that's what's required by the the water department. And you know,
the point of that is to give it more accessibility for the abutters. Um, but again, it'd probably take another 200 plus feet of 8 in water mane to bring the water to in front of the nearest abutter. Um, but I think if there was an
abutter directly in front of the water man, they could connect to what we're showing. >> Okay. like to see them protected a little bit more, but I I understand your response. Um, comment number 17,
uh, you're proposing a 5 milligram per liter system. I was just wondering, Norine, with the board of health, is it 5 milligrams now or is it 3 milligrams? I wasn't I forgot what the new regulation was. Is it for five or
>> It's either five or 10. I think that the town has got to three with their treatment plant, but that's a different scenario than >> Okay. I'm pretty sure it's a consistent 10. >> Yeah. Typically, I think the lowest I've
seen is 10 for and that's just a system less than 10,000 gallons per day, >> which falls under title five. Obviously, a system over 10,000 is a whole different um ballpark, but this the system we're proposing, the Nitrax is
treating to wastewater treatment plant levels and beyond. The the groundwater discharge permit requires 10 milligrams per liter or less and that's for anything bigger than 10,000. So, this is significantly even less than that. >> They are known to treat to less >> the nitro. Yeah, I mean, yeah, we we
kind of set a point, but you see some of these systems treating to to less than that and not zero obviously, but >> maybe not consistently, but they can >> like a monthly average, >> they can hit five. >> They do. Yeah, they do hit five on a regular basis. >> Okay.
>> Which is >> a conventional septic is 35 uh just so like a just a regular septic in someone's home is the effluence about 35 total nitrogen. Just taking me back to the sight distance on the 200 ft. Was
there anything that was proposed that could have increased that sight distance or there was nothing fundamentally there that would have >> there was a tree that that was talked about? >> So the tree we did look at the tree but because the tree um it wasn't really it
was just a one narrow object. The talking with the um traffic engineer they didn't feel like it was a substantial obstruction. The tree is also it's in the town's right ofway. So, um it would have to be a you know we'd collaborate with the town if I guess if
it did ultimately need to come down. >> Can I just go ahead >> go back to the uh water line. I mean, if there's any neighbors who uh would like to be on town water, if you communicate to that to the water department, they um
quite likely will extend down to you because um I'm aware that it would be their wish to uh to loop it to Wild Harbor, which would benefit everybody. So, anybody that wants to hitch up to the water should make it be known to the uh to the
water department and knock on wood. Beg, give him a coupon, whatever. >> Coupons. >> That's all. >> His coupons tonight. >> His coupons tonight. >> Frank, do you have any questions? >> I have one more. >> Oh, you have one more. Sorry, Scott. >> Yeah, sorry. Uh
over to comment 58. >> I found the letter here. I can get it for you. >> Got it. Uh the applicant is confident the soil testing was done according to the best practices. So I just wanted you to conf to mention that you did do it according
to best practices. >> The the soil test pits, correct? >> Yeah, I I did them myself. So >> Okay. >> Yes, we did do them per the standard for title five, right? That's the ones related to the septic. >> Correct. which is um up at a higher
elevation maybe 20 feet above the the groundwater that was observed. But we did also dig a test but in the low area because we always want to try to find groundwater and actually see it and then we use a um a soil redoxyorphic features
to estimate the seasonal high. >> Then the 100red years uh storm event that would just spill over into that kind of that depression area on storm water. >> Yeah. Anything. Yeah. Anything that didn't uh infiltrate on its own would would Yeah. go into that area. Yep. And
I think we depict we we depict the the limit the extent of that storm on the plan. So you can see that it's all self-contained within that area. >> I appreciate your efforts. There was uh 73 comments and you did a good job on those. So thank you. One more. Um just
to go back to the uh water. I mean, if the neighbors do communicate to the water department that they want to hitch up and they do decide to loop the water man to Wild Harbor, it's probably going to come with a new and uh improved road
as well because they don't like to tear things up and not you know anyway quite likely it it could be a home run for you if you speak up. Squeaky wheel gets the oil. The water super has confirmed that
where Habitat is bringing the water main halfway that they would intend to extend it and connect. So would it will at some point in time be looped >> and probably come with a new road
and an old wall. You guys are doing well this evening. >> Frank, >> go ahead. Frank, you're right back. >> Well, I have just one question. And I want some clarification. We were talking about lights a little bit earlier. Uh
would these lights be activated so that they turn on automatically at dusk and turn off at dawn or would you require somebody in the house to throw a switch? >> They would they would always be on and come on um automatically. They would come on automatically at do. Yeah,
>> it's in the bulb now. Yeah, >> it is. >> You can get bulbs that actually come on. >> Johnson Electric. They got a whole box of them. But the switch wouldn't be able to be shut off. >> Yeah, you can't shut. >> You can't shut off the switch. It would always >> You don't even need a coupon.
>> Okay. It's >> right inside the door to the right. >> Right. >> Okay. That was just just I just want to be clarified on that. And thank you. >> I have two things for you. I always ask my famous question. Snow removal. Here
it goes. Where you going to put it on there? So, I think we can, you know, typically in a a road like this, you would just plow to the edge of the the pavement and the folks would um shovel it. But we could definitely, and I don't think we did, I think we talked about we
can definitely allocate a snow removal spot. There is a kind of an area between the lots here that was designated as trail, right? So, someone could just, you know, pile the snow there. >> You could also push it off the side of the road in these areas. There's a
there's quite a significant shoulder here. So, um I feel like there's plenty of room. If the plow wants to come in and he pushes a section over different spaces, it it seems to me there's there's more than enough room to do that. But if you'd like, we can actually put the snow.
>> I would put it on the plan >> storage. Sure. Yeah. >> And my other question is I'm reading in here there's going to be no guest parking. You're going to use the street. >> Is that what I'm reading on this? >> Yeah. Well, I think we're saying that there's not expected to be guest parking
on a frequent basis at all. So, um it would just be off the edge of the road. There's there is if if it's needed, there is a like I said a quite a big shoulder there. It's a 5ft shoulder, so there's more than enough room if
>> you anticipating no guests. >> Well, I mean, I think the driveways can actually fit more than two cars probably, too. Um, it's just we're showing them completely off the actual out of the right ofway line. So, this is the the right-of-way line here. So, the
comment from the peer reviewers that they should be all outside on the property, but I think in a rare circumstance, if there's someone coming over, you could, you know, scoot your car up a little further and fit another car here. And again, I I don't I don't
anticipate and maybe Havoc attack can speak to like how many cars people have, but I I don't I don't expect >> recommended no on street parking. We normally don't do on street parking at all in 40. >> Yeah. I don't think we ever indicated we were planning to park on street. Um is
that going to be lawn where you're planning to have these cars pulled? >> Yep. >> It says, >> so were you going to do like permeable pavers or whatever? Any such? We weren't planning on any reinforced um surface there. No. >> So, there's the potential that everybody's front yard's going to get
>> Well, I think the idea was that there's not going to be it's not going to happen. It's going to happen when someone graduates or the Super Bowl. You know, we're not expecting this to be a frequent event. So, that's why >> people who live there will park off the street, but guests if they're there for the afternoon,
>> be on the street. Yeah. >> Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The people will all park in their driveways, right? >> So, it just >> Yes. We'll be parking on the lawn >> maybe for an hour or two or whatever. It's not a >> We've We've required permeable
>> pavers before or whatever you call those. >> Um >> you're talking about a shoulder. >> Yeah. A shoulder. I mean, just signage because otherwise if cars are parking in the rain and and consistently and you're going to have houses in there where they're going to have regular guests. I
mean, Mabel's going to be bringing over the chicken noodle soup twice a week. I mean, uh, she's going to foul up the lawn, I would imagine. >> Well, I mean, I think our idea was that this we didn't expect this to be a a
occasional thing that would happen that often. So, I guess I can talk to Habitat if they're if they're willing to >> 14 houses. The chances are pretty good that somebody's going to have regular visitors if they have relatives in town or whatever. I >> would it be helpful to demonstrate how
many cars could fit in each? >> Yeah, sure. >> Yeah, that would be. >> Do you know what I mean? Like show you like three or four could be fit in here. >> You can give one or two. You can show that one or two extra cars like can there without >> I just add >> digging up their lawn. I mean that's just a kind of a you know you start degrading the property and it's kind of
a downward spiral. I mean, we've we've required that an apron be with, you know, have permeable pavers um or that latt concrete lattice, you know. >> Yeah, we have the we've done the reinforced turf or things. >> Reinforced whatever. I can't remember what I think they call them permeable
pavers, but yeah. >> Or the reinforced I'm sure they got nine different names for it depending on who you buy it from. But I I would think you know three or four feet of that would be well see what you come up with on what it looks like with you know >> I could show what it looks like.
>> I'd like to add to Mr. Feran's comment. >> The the Abigan suggests that this board is supposed to just believe that there'll be no on street parking which that's not going to happen that way. It's not real life. So
Mr. Finan's idea about a shoulder is is a great idea, but since this is an HOA, I as one member here, I'd like to see that in the uh since or put I'd like to see that in the HOA document says that there's no on street parking. I realize I realize that that requires some board
to go out there or somebody to um enforce that, which is very likely not to happen. Or you can put signs up that says no on street parking. But I think Mr. Finan's idea is what is absolutely necessary because again we
keep talking about pride of place. Pride of place and if you start parking cars on a lawn and it's all muddy and it's all gummed up with this. I mean just because it's affordable housing doesn't mean it should not be well cared
for. >> And I mean with the permeable pavers it would it would offer a surface for people to again to traverse the neighborhood in lie of a sidewalk. So I I think >> and it should be in the homeowners uh >> yeah I I mean >> argument >> so HOA uh uh restriction on on street
parking is what you're suggesting. >> Yeah the problem I am suggesting that matter maybe you would >> that's right >> I am suggesting that because I'd like the board to consider that uh in their if they approve this in their conditions
um but I worry about and Mr. F's idea is a great idea because it's there um doesn't need to be enforced because you can park there and we don't want this place looking like something you don't want to look like later on. But it should be just to
reinforce everything in the homeowners association document. Again, somebody has to enforce it. Nobody in town will enforce it. We don't enforce things like that in town here, but it would be good to have it in the homeowners association as good faith.
>> Why don't we look at some options for for providing that? >> Nice. Thank you. >> Sounds good, >> Jim. >> No questions. Thank you, >> Tony. >> Oh, okay. We're back here. >> We're already at bat. >> Very bad. I I just want to understand something about the water again just to make sure I understand. Uh I get it. You
folks are bringing the water up from We're at dead ends at Cameron right now. Is that what you're talking about? >> Correct. If you look at this plan, it's um >> coming from Cameron. Yep. Down here. And we're extending it beyond the entrance all the way
>> um to there. The ending in a hydrant. >> So So it dead ends there at a hydrant. And this is what I want to understand. I think you said the town said that's okay to do that, but as an engineer, how do you how do you flush out a system like that so you don't have a bunch of
sedimentation building up at the end of >> That's why you you put the hydrants there. >> All right. So then that's the town's responsibility to flush that out. All right. >> Okay. That's what I want to make sure of. All right. Thank you. >> That's why it's quite likely they'll loop at the Wild Harbor. Just easier for them and better for everybody.
>> And um All right, that's that that's it. I appreciate it. Thank you. >> You're welcome. >> You good, Nick? >> Yep. >> Anybody else all set? We'll go for the public. >> Are you all set? >> All set. Yes. Anybody from the public?
Come on up. Name and address, please. >> Hi, Bob Liry, uh, Galleta Drive in East Falmouth, uh, construction supervisor for Habitat for Humanity, planning board member. I want to address the guest parking thing. I don't know of any site plan
that the planning board has ever done that's required guest parking. Uh you drive on any street in this town. I live on a street where everybody has a driveway, people park on the street regardless,
especially the ones with the uh uh temporary uh Airbnb situations. you get people, eight people uh sitting on the side of the road. As far as uh having the extra expense of putting reinforced uh turf, I think that's an unreasonable
requirement for uh an affordable housing entity. And I really wish people would go around and look at some Habitat developments and you'll see how well-kept they are. We have one right here in Falmouth at Willlet Way and it's the same situation. It's a culde-sac
with a nicely paved road. driveways can hold three to four cars. So, I just think having a requirement for a guest parking is is not something that you should require this project. >> Well, it was presented to us that the driveways would hold two cars and we
have um conditioned permeable pavers on um projects before. So, and you know, everybody wants the place to look proper and just um you know, have have a nice place for people to park. It's not that
great of an expense, but um I don't know like as we have done it before, we've conditioned it before and they work out really well and once the grass grows through them after a few years, you're really not aware. But the only thing is that that it it it doesn't turn into a mud puddle and and it's
>> I'm well I'm well aware of them, but right now we're also looking at a subdevelopment that's requiring one parking space. >> Mr. Larry, I also think that when you do site plan, your roads are wide. >> Our most of our 40Bs are pretty skinny and you really can't have them parking
in the street. >> Your subdivision Well, you're you have subdivisionsized roads. We don't >> and that's why we tend to have guest parking. >> Mhm. >> Because it's not safe. >> But until he gives us the the diagrams, if if there's four cars there, we're not going to bark at that.
>> Um >> Okay. I just >> he's just going to show us a a few that he can fit on there somewhere and you know >> Okay. Thank you. >> Thanks. >> Thank you. >> Anybody else from the public? >> Rock, scissors, paper, shoot. Who goes
first? >> Um, good evening. Um, my name's Jean Cosgrove and I live on Hunt Street in North Felmouth. And um I noticed they didn't they only notified of the abutters way in ahead of time, but I'm further away so I didn't hear about this
till the spring. So um I wanted to voice my opposition to the proposed construction of 14 houses initiated by 300 committee land trust and habitat um on 48 Benjamin um NY Lane. And I want
to urge the zoning board of appeals to deny the permit or at a minimum significantly reduce the number of units that would fit in the area of the immediate house and garage that's already built there. And um
I you know I have a two-page letter. Do you want me to just read? I wrote my comments after night. But my point this is um I live in North Felmouth for many years and this is forested area. It's a conservation land.
potential open space and I think it was the wrong thing for our 300 committee to do. Um I think creating additional housing will increase existing problems in North Falmouth. poor water quality even though you have the advanced system but more nitrogens
um excessive traffic inability of the town to maintain our current infrastructure in North Elmouth and it will fragment critical habitats and wildlife corridors there's not enough space and loss of open space
and uh historically in for northmouth our infrastructure needs are ignored you know we're way up there in you I've called three times to have a sewage drainage when my road was done
over 20 years ago and they just ignore. So, um, so I believe that building more housing in an already densely built North Falmouth will not solve the affordability problem and I think this Pac particular site is unsuitable for a high density of
development due to several concerns. the environmental and wildlife. This is critical eastern box turtle habitat. And I walk the area. There's there's some wetlands that in some on your website that don't appear to be delineated that
that are pretty close to some of that site and they don't they don't say how many feet away it is. So there's wetlands and habitat. Um let's see. I you know the Benjamin the 48 property. There's one house in out building.
There's 14 units that goes way beyond that one house and takes up the green field space, the forest and wildlife. And you walk through, you see a lot of signs of wildlife wetland, American chestnut trees. I saw two American
chestnut trees. Um, so I think if you're going to build on the property, limit it to the grassy area of the the old house and the garage and you know there's wetlands close by and they should be sufficiently delineated and measured.
Um, and my own opinion I was very disappointed when the 300 committee did this our supposed conservation trust. I think the whole 58 acres contiguous acres should have been preserved as undeveloped land for
conservation for critical habitat and open space much needed in North Felmouth because we're already um densely developed and I think there's infrastructure and traffic implications as I mentioned um it's it's already is
difficult to pull out on Wild Hover Road and Old Main Road. So that's going to exa ex evaporate exacerbate it. As a kid I used to ride my bike down Benjamin Nye and it you know a lot of people bikers and runners so it's going to change the character of the neighborhood. Um I went
to Will It Way there's there's fewer houses. This is much more. So I think you should put the minimum amount and I first thought they mentioned six houses in the spring. So I don't know how it got to be 14. Um let's see. And you
know, again, I the existing infrastructure in North Phelmouth, it's, you know, I've called three times to the to try to get another drain on my street when it rains 2 in. We can't drive through on Hunt Street. So,
so they I I feel we get ignored a lot in Northmouth. Um, and it's going to change the I think the density is going to be detrimental to sounding to North Falmouth. I think we have too high density of housing. I think even Cape
Cod has what 89 80 to 90% developed. So I think where we have open space and contiguous area like that, we should try to preserve it. So, I urge the zoning uh board of appeals to deny the permit
or at a minimum red significantly reduce the number of units to what would fit in near the house and look at some of those issues. >> Madam Chair, >> thank you. >> Um just to address your uh concerns about density, I think it's a 56 acre
parcel, not 58 as you mentioned, but um the rest of it is going to be open. I mean, and that works out to one house every 4 acres. That's that's some of the least dense development in this town to find. Um I mean, you'd have to go out
into the farms of East Felmouth to find that kind of a number. Uh I and if a developer had bought this, purchased this property, which could have happened, I mean, you'd be seeing um you know, at a minimum a house every 40,000
square ft. And um you know if it went to a 40B there's no telling how many I mean six units an acre you could add 300 units there. So I think 14 is um >> it it's some of the
least densely developed area in town. >> Well I think >> I >> it's nice to have open space in town >> but there's going to be open >> there's a ton of it that's there too. I mean, >> everything's open all the way over to um
you know, uh uh the left side of Quaker Road, all the way up to um Early Boulevard almost. It's it's there's there's a ton of >> You look at an aerial photo, there's a ton of open space there. And and I don't think this
bruises the anywhere as much as it could have. I mean, that part of this is is is one of the things that we're kind of happiest about. Um, >> may I ask a question, Madam Chair, on that? Go ahead.
>> With regard to the 300 committee who's not before us, but what I just heard was, well, that's going to be all open space. Is that I mean, do we know that to be a fact that that is going to be open space or are they going to be open to expanding this? They're not going to
develop any more in there. >> Oh, yeah. >> That's correct. Right. >> That's correct. Yeah. >> Oh, yeah. >> So, you got one you got one house per four acres. I mean that's some >> so we have no there is there's no reason for this board to believe that there'd be some future deal where they would
sell other land 300 committee to them for this or any other developer. Am I correct on that? I want this in the testimony. >> Yes. >> Yeah. It's already there. >> What what I think is the 300 committee could have bought the whole thing or they could have >> engaged all of north.
>> They bought the whole thing. They put a they for conservation >> they had some affordable housing advocates that wanted to make it affordable. >> I mean you can speak to this for us and >> but they could have found a way to get the whole thing like they have in other
properties in town. There's an 8 acre site in 300 million site in East Fmouth. Why don't they put it there? Or even their own. I think it's kind of hypocritical too. They have then nice new headquarters that they've they've done a you know construction of. They
could put 14 units in the field right in front of them in front of the their headquarters. >> That's like a twoacre field. >> You know, they could put town houses there >> and already built. So, >> thank you.
>> Thank you. Anybody else want to come up? Um, I've been here before. I'm Ruth Brazier. I live um at 67 Venderman Lane, across the street from this. and um the
uh I'm interested in um the use of the Benjamin I's lane for um bicyclists. We have a lot of bicyclists including children
and um we have a lot of walkers and um and I've been interviewing people uh and most of uh a great number of them come from uh don't come from the media from
Benjamin I lane or the streets that um uh start on Benjamin I's Um people come from a mile away because they like they really like to make that part of their walk. Um the are and as
far as the traffic goes what uh people don't seem to have counted is the through traffic. Benjamin Nane is used as a preferred shortcut for people who for large numbers of people who live down on Wild Harbor Road. And um what
surprised me during this snowy period was how these people are in so much in the habit of using Benjamin Nye that they prefer to use Benjamin Nai which wasn't plowed as thoroughly as as Wild Harbor Road to keep you know they keep
coming down that street and being slowed up by the snow because they seem to be in the habit. I think at least 50% of the traffic is actually through traffic and talking to people who use that that
road they um they do walk in the street uh the people who complain I think the is the through traffic people um because uh they would like to be able to go faster.
Um, I think that when you're talking about sidewalks in this development, remember those children are going to be practicing bicycling and I think they're safer without a sidewalk.
the sidewalk um particularly on Bedu and I and um will improve visibility and um allow people give people the incentive to go even faster than they already go. So, anything can be done that could be
done to slow the traffic like a 15 mile speed limit would would help us. But I would be very sorry to see to lose the our neighbors from from often more
than a mile away who who use this road. And it makes it a very um it's a real community asset. And I'm looking forward to the people the new people at in this development being able to enjoy this road the way it is.
Um then the other thing I hope that the that we the neighbors including the new people um will have uh foot there will be a path for foot traffic into the
conservation area so that you know we don't have to get into our cars and go to a parking place to to go to we can just walk into it. Thank you. Thank you. >> Also, I would we wouldn't mind seeing um
>> a moat with a drawbridge. >> What? >> A moat with a drawbridge? >> No. Um we wouldn't mind seeing two family houses as a more efficient use of space. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Anybody else want to come up tonight?
Madame chair, may I uh >> may I distribute this? Sure. >> No, no. >> Thank you. >> Okay, >> perfect. Thank you. We like to get these things a few days early if you just
>> I don't I don't type fast enough. >> Yeah. Well, I mean we >> and I make mistakes. So if you look at the board of adjustment, you know, I apologize, >> but to ask us to read this on the fly um we try to discourage that >> anybody in the future. >> Thank you.
>> Make note. >> Thank you. Thank you, members of the board. My name is Jeff Lintner. This is the third time that I've been here, and I learned tonight that um uh I have a new identity. I'm 78 years old. I you know, we all struggle with identity issues,
but I when I was talking to council for Habitat, uh he addressed me as the well guy. So, I'm the well guy and um I've got >> I'm glad you're well
>> mentally. Yes. Uh I think so. I've appeared twice before this. Uh I have a lot of other things, a lot of other issues that I could talk about, but I need to focus on one particular
issue. and I am right now the only a butter that doesn't have town water and I'm concerned about it. And so I thank Joe for leaving the you can look at the back of this and you'll see some of my
concerns. But I thank Joe for for leaving this up here. And to preface my remarks, I'd like the board to consider two specific actions. They're preemptive from my perspective and they've been discussed with you previously and I've
had cordial conversations with Habitat. We disagree on some things and mostly financial at this point. Uh there are some costs associated with ameliating the problems that I see that I'm concerned about. Um and uh I've been told that they would not be
able to absorb the cost associated with that. So I'll get to that. So, >> can I just ask you on >> Yes, sir. >> Have you uh calculated the distance to your well from this? I mean, because we've seen this a few times. Which one? >> Uh uh the distance from the property
line to your well. >> Uh I think we we have done that. I think it's about uh close to 200 ft. >> And uh so at the first meeting here, if I can jump ahead, thank you. Um um we talked about this and I'd asked for a
peer review uh to uh to look at uh how this how the sewage is going to flow the septic system is going to flow here and we'll get into that in a little bit more detail. Um there was not to my knowledge a peer
review the at the subsequent meeting and and uh Mr. Petruchi you were the one that uh recommended there be a peer review at the first meeting. Um the only evidence of a peer review was that there was a gentleman from the Fmouth Water Department that came at the last meeting
and said, "Well, you're 100 ft away and therefore this does not constitute a potential infraction according to and maybe infraction is the wrong word." Um, but I look at this and >> let me let me just fill in some of that just so you >> Yeah,
>> that would be under title five, which would be u putting like uh 35 parts per million when you got a system here that's potentially going to operate at five. So, um I mean you're beyond the 100 ft
when the concern is the effluent being uh uh which would be legal for effluent measuring 35 and and this thing's going to be below 10 and quite likely five if it's operating. So, I mean that that allays a lot of your concerns and and it
also um it it it puts it outside of peer review and I mean to ask somebody to fund that is is is um there's there's no way you can. >> I'm just I'm just reciting that the committee said that there would be a
peer review and if there was a decision not to do it that I I can understand that. My my concern about is that there is no data that determines where the plume is going to go. And Joe, for example, said he can model where the
plume of the effluent from the septic area is going to go, but we don't have the the real data. We have a supposition that the groundwater is going to flow one direction, right? But we don't know for a fact. And what I'm asking, one of
the things I'm asking is that there be a well sampling uh at the site because I researched this. I've talked to experts in the field and they say for a relatively small amount of money, which in this case is $7,000, correct?
Roughly, you can test and find out which way the water flows. Now, for $7,000, that seems to me to be a pretty reasonable investment to allow my fears that my well is going to be contaminated. And if indeed the plume
goes in another direction, I'm far less concerned. And so, the the the reality is that the testing is relatively inexpensive. Um, you know, I I would ask that the board require that,
which it can do under SE I can do Google, so I know what 760 CMR56055 is. Um, the board can ask that that be done that the testing be done and that allies my fears to a substantial extent. To your comments about water, yes, I
would like to hook up the town water because that would give me the security. that would give me the security so I don't have to worry. >> You'd be better off spending your seven grand because you can't get these people to to spend $7,000 for something that is
twice the state um minimum required minimum. And then again, I'm going to have to repeat myself, but that that's at a 35 degree uh 35 parts per per million. And and this thing is going to
be well below that. Um, it's uh Have you spoken with the water department? >> Yes. >> Yeah. And did they tell you uh that it would be possible for you to hitch up while they were extending the
water man? Well, I I ask in my in my comments, what I ask is and have asked uh politely that since Habitat is already constructing uh we've seen up here where the hydrant is going to be and we've talked about
where the hydrant is uh and and uh uh the engineer Joe has identified the fact that it for another 242 ft which will cost $60,000 in his estimation. I would have access to town water and
that allies the fears of the contamination of there and we haven't really talked about the depression where all the while the surface water is going to be dropping into that depression which is at a 14t level sir and it's you know it's about the level where my well
is and so I I see two sources of contamination for my well >> but your well is already getting water from that depression as it is most probably. >> So
to me the the notion of extending extending the the uh water service another 242 ft provides uh the security that I would like to have so that I'm not worrying about the contamination of
my well and I and I think it's a reasonable request. I don't, you know, I don't understand why it's something that can't be considered. Certainly, the testing seems to me something that is extraordinarily reasonable because uh we just don't know which way this plume is
going to go. >> May I ask a question, Madam Chair? >> Yes, sir. >> When you talk to the water department, did they say they will extend it or might extend it or who knows if they what they're going to do? There is no certainty that they will extend it and
that's why I mean if there was certainty that would be one thing there is no certainty sir and um I think what the water department would like to do the last conversation I had is to uh link
wild harbor uh up to this and um that would include three other parcels uh that would then have access to town water. >> So let me ask this question. Let me let me ask a question.
Do we have any um data that would uh help Mr. uh Litner? Did I say that correctly? Um alias fears.
I don't think we do. I don't think anyone's provided that. I think we're going on what Title five says. you're not you're further than 100 ft away. There's going to be a denitrification system. So therefore, you should be okay. But no one really knows that for sure.
We believe from what science says that you'll be okay. >> But the best thing that could happen is that the water line be extended all the way to Wild Harbor and you then pay to connect to that main water line.
So, Madam Chair, can we and just hypothetical question, >> can we condition this if we were to approve this that they can't start it until the town approves the extension of the water line? >> No. No. The state says it's 100 ft. We
don't have anything to stand on. I'm trying to find a way of solving I know it's for one person but and I know that's not necessarily fair to the applicant and so I have to ask that question if we can do something like that and evidently we can't. So, someone has to find a way
and I think it falls on probably on you based on the science in front of us that you're not in danger because you're more than 100t away and that's for title five and there's going to be a dite system that's going to be 5 milligrams per liter uh even less. So,
I know that doesn't help you much but this board can only go on the science that's before us. >> Yes, sir. I'm data driven and if I look at this, you can you can talk about the 100 feet.
I get the 100 feet and I understand that the 100 feet between a septic source and a well most likely applies to a residential house. If if I build next to you and you have a well and I'm 100t
away, it's okay. This is not just a house. This is 4,000 gallons a day that design that goes right there and it's going to have a plume and it's not just the nitrogen s it's it's you know it's it's the other contaminants that are in
there and that's what's likely to come toward my well. Now if we do the flow testing which is data and we find that it goes that direction then it doesn't impact my property if we extend if we extend the water
line. so that I can tap into it if if in fact my well becomes contaminated then it's not a problem. >> I asked the question earlier about can we condition it so the water line is extended. I know that we cannot do that because that's the town that would have
to do that and to put that expense on particularly habitat probably wouldn't be fair. So, how do we I don't know. I I don't have an answer for you as to how we uh
eliminate the fear other than to have them do a test and I'm not even sure we can do that at this point in time. test is relatively easy to do in this puzzle is the modeling and the modeling says which has been done for the whole town and the modeling says
that the water doesn't flow the way he's concerned that it does. I'm quite sure I'm correct about that. >> I think the other scenario here is that you can't impose something more strict on a 40B development state
>> would on any other residential property being developed. And if there was a single house here, the water still flows the way it does. Um, but you know, the state has said that we do not have control over that.
>> I sympathize with the concerns. I truly do. But I'm just I'm trying to find a way. >> Well, the way is >> Oh, but I don't see it. I just >> There's a way. The way is because I know that the town does not like stubs. They're hard to maintain. They don't flush well. And I know from knowing what
I know about the water system in this town was a lot because I know people that have worked for it for, you know, 25 years, 30 years, as long as I've been doing this. And the Wild Harbor Maine is one of the best flowing mains in town and it's new. And if you were to convince your uh neighbors all to go, if
you were to go to the water department in in mass, the the four of you or whatever, the chances are pretty good that you're going to convince them to uh run that water man because I know it's on their wish list, as is paving the road, and they like to do these things
all at once so they don't waste money. Um, and I I think you should all go together to the DPW and the water department because the state law says that we can't do anything because you're you're you're twice the the 100 foot
um measure and and I mean that applies to title five systems all over the state. I mean if there was an issue with it, people would be coming up poisoned left and right and I'm not aware of that. See, I think I think that a reasonable
investment as opposed to a waterm a $7,000 test that determines the flow of the affluent will go a long way toward aligning the fears that I have personally and frankly my downstream neighbors do. I the notion
of appealing to DPW and you know it's like saying trust me I love you in the morning and I I I have no confidence that that there will be a waterline that makes that connection anytime soon. We can't mandate the bottom line in this,
you know, and is we can't mandate or demand anything that's outside of the state's minimum as far as far as I understand and I think that's exactly correct. >> Um and uh like I said and and that's again I'm going to repeat myself, but
that's that's for 35 parts per million and this thing is going to be much much less. and you know the modeling says that it doesn't flow in the direction that you're concerned. >> Um c can can I just address with the the question of the modeling the modeling
there's no data there's no test wells that that confirm where that flow goes >> well I'm not I'm not sure that because they I mean they these models are of they use them all the time. I mean we're we're sewering
this town. I mean, I I they're they're fairly consistent and I'm not an expert on this, but I spent years going to the wastewater committee meetings and um they they for the most part the the water does flow the way the models
indicate and yeah, I mean he he would know better than me. He's an engineer. He doesn't have his hat tonight. >> Madam Chairman, if I may, the the concern has been obviously addressed. I think the board has noted it, but this is a board of health issue which we don't have any jurisdiction over. >> So, I would suggest that we it's time to
move on. >> Well, even if Mr. Lintner went out and got the tests himself and brought them in here and it showed that the water flowed right into his well, I'm not sure we could help him. Can't >> again, sir.
>> He wants you to repeat, Frank. >> But he's >> You went out and did the test yourself >> and you came in with a report that said the affluent well the water direction flow is directly into your well. >> I'm not sure we could help you.
>> Yes, sir. I was prepared to undertake doing the tests on my property. Uh and I was told that that doesn't really determine the flow. The flow the the flow is determined at that the prospective source which is the site in the middle there.
>> Yeah. I'm not sure that that's correct. >> It's a board of health uh issue. I >> mean the engineer might be able to >> do you want to answer true? >> Yeah. I'll just show you what I showed you. >> Just a brief response. >> Yeah. I just wanted to I think we've talked about this before the flow of the
groundwater. I think I presented a figure that showed it. We've done we've actually done more figures. I think I actually have included it here. This is like >> it's based on regional groundwater flow. We don't have Mr. Lintner is saying is
he's like he wants the sight specific. they have regional groundwater flow data that we can produce this model that shows the plume of a wastewater treatment system with our flow in this area. So I think this just demonstrates the same thing we've shown before is
that the the anticipated flow based on the regional groundwater models shows the wastewater not here's here's the well and here's the plume and you can see so just maybe to give some >> and what is that distance
>> uh the lateral distance from the plume to his well I mean just >> the wastewater leech field is 340 ft to the well >> no I'm talking about the plume this distance here. >> Yeah, just roughly. >> I mean, probably a couple hundred feet. So, >> so you pass the hundred feet measure again. So that
>> So I again I just wanted to show this. It's it's regional groundwater modeling. We've tried to demonstrate that it goes um you know doesn't >> intercept the well. >> I mean it's like an underground river. I mean they
>> the uh we talked about test pits. We've done I think 10 test pits throughout the whole site. So, we've looked at the soil and it's all been consistently sandy material. Um, so we we've seen nothing that would from a soil basis that would
>> change what we would have think >> ahead. >> So, I I thank you for your time. I appreciate it. Uh my question will be when when or if my will is contaminated,
what recourse do I have? And and and you know, I I can see recour is here, but do I have to go spend $60,000 to have the line extended? And they may not do that, sir. What recourse do I have
now? I have a contaminated well. The water department hasn't proceeded. We're saying we don't want to even test the flow and I respect what Joe said about what that's you you pointed out that that's a stream right now. Suppose it goes 10 degrees to the right.
>> Well, I mean the again this is just what I've learned from and I spent a lot of time going to these is there aren't many instances where the um models are wrong because the water's flowing. I mean it's like changing the course of a river. Um,
and it and it has to do with with the consistency of of what's underneath the ground underneath. And I mean it the way it flows is the way it flows kind of, >> right? >> But we can we can ascertain that, sir, by doing a $7,000 test on the site.
Number one. Number two, if we don't do that, what's my recourse? I I mean, I asked the board, "What's my recourse?" >> We don't know. >> I don't know. First, >> we don't know. I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on TV.
>> But, uh, honestly, your best my my advice to you is get together with all your neighbors and present your case to the water department and that your chances are pretty good that they they're going to loop that because the road is is
deteriorating. It's on the wish list to pave. Um, you're halfway there already when they extend this water man. So, I I would get together with my friends and form a solid coalition and and um
go to the DPW. That would be my best advice to you. But we can't do anything for you. >> Can you have a resolution to DPW? >> Huh? >> Can you have a resolution to DPW? >> You you should the you and your three neighbors should get together and um
I mean it's out of our it's not our jurisdiction. Okay, >> thank you very much for your time. >> Good. I mean, good luck and and I think your chances are very good, >> especially if you're unified. >> Anybody else want to come up to the
podium? >> Can I give you my comments for the record? >> Sure. >> Definitely. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thanks. I don't know if you got my email. >> Yes. >> Yes, we did get your email. Yep.
>> Dana Narley at 130 Old Maine. And I was here last time and I talked about how I thought that the density was too high for this small neighborhood. And everybody talks about the u the other possibilities. Um and um
that's beside the point in my opinion because we're on the cusp of of being beyond that other than I think a delay and a pause of a development permit as I understand. But if this were to fall apart and had to go through that I think we'd be you know in a different
situation. But more importantly is is whether the density is really appropriate for this size neighborhood and this street and everything else. But you're going to make your decision on that. Um, the other two things I wanted to say is, um, following up on what Ruth said, you know, this is a cutthrough of
a street and I'll take her word for it that 50% of the people that are actually going up of the street um are are just cutting through and um probably nearly all of them are the ones that are going the fastest. And um I don't know what you
can do, but you might want to be proactive about trying to figure out, especially with 14 more houses on the street, as to how you mitigate that. And I don't know, did somebody say the the speed limit is 30 mph? Did you say that?
>> Yeah. So, I mean, you could lower the speed limit and put the lights up or whatever. Try to teach the people that are cutting through that that's not a good option anymore. I'm just putting it out there. And the other thing that I brought up last time was um for this neighborhood, as far as I can tell, the
the u bus stop is right at the corner of Benjamin Naine. It's already over capacity and there's not that many kids there. It's like six kids or whatever. But the parents all have to be there when they go and when they come back and if there's any, you know, inclement weather or anything else. And I can't
imagine taking on another 14 houses where you say it's supposed to be a family of four or whatever. and you know even half of them end up being on uh at that bus stop right on the corner. I don't know uh uh you know whether it
should be on um you know Wild Harbor side or whatever, but there's going to be a problem with that and you might want to be proactive about figuring that one out too. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Look who's coming up. Yeah, Norine with
Habitat for Humanity. Um, the 300 committee's been at our other meetings, but they couldn't be here tonight. So, I just wanted to reflect on your question. I looked at my notes and the 300 Committee Land Trust and the Fmouth Conservation Commission collaborated on the permanent protection of almost 48 acres of land. So, I just wanted to
clarify that for the second. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Anybody else? Last call. All right. Anybody up here have any further questions? We're
>> all set. >> Norin, do we have a date? >> March 12th. >> March 12th. Getting close to St. Patty's Day. >> Oh boy. >> Um motion to continue to March 12th. >> I have a motion. >> Second. >> Second that.
>> Second by Tony. Uh any further discussion? Are you all set? >> Yes, we're all set. I believe >> March 12th. Is that a good day for involved. All involved. >> Okay. >> All set everybody. >> All those in favor?
>> Opposed? None. >> So, March 12th, 6:00. >> Thanks to all members of the board. Appreciate your time. >> Peace. >> All right. Now, where's my thing? >> All right. We have a uh it says hearing
um uh 05824 M2 85 Brick Kilm. All right. Oh, he should Joe, should we tell him to get his thumb drive? >> Get his thumb drive. >> I gave it to him. >> Oh, you already did. I thought it's still up there. >> Yeah, I think it stays on the screen,
too. >> Oh, it just stays on. Okay. Yeah. Thanks, as opposed to me. It has a memory. >> Both of us. >> What are you flying? >> Delta. >> Nice. >> New York. New York.
>> Providence, too. >> I can fly up so much easier. Can I go to Suzanne set? >> Yeah, I'm good. Sorry. >> Good evening. Nick Marion here representing the applicant 85 Brick Kil
LLC. When I was here last When I was here the last time, we requested and as part of an insubstantial change to make this a management office with a bathroom.
I understand that the board considered this a substantial change because we were changing the use to more of a commercial use. So, I'd like to amend my request, take out the office portion of it, and just have a bathroom for the workers.
So that when the lawn crews and the snowplow people are there working or maintaining equipment, they don't have to have a porter party in the driveway or go behind the building or leave the site. They have a place where they can go. And I believe that is that is an
insubstantial change. Just the bathroom. >> Anybody have any questions up here, Scott? >> I guess Norinen in the file. Didn't Scott Mcan say something about any bathroom or anything? There was no documentation. I was just looking in the file.
>> The email of January 6, 2026. >> Yeah, I don't have anything further from Scott. I don't know whether he was just indicating that this particular building >> was not connected to septic. >> Excuse me. I think I think what he was
saying was that we didn't show a water connection to it in the water plan which we would revise and we didn't show the grinder pump that would be needed to pump it up the hill to the leeching field that the uh infidrome system were
proposing. So we would have to show that for him to be able to approve it. But there's no sense submitting that to him until we have permission to put a bathroom in which we don't have yet. and he submitted that in writing. >> I'm saying Scott to Ashley. I'm going
back to do referrals. May not have responded. The project has never had board of health approval. I disapprove all the applications is what Scott said to Ashley on >> January 6th. That's what I mean. >> And I just I was just looking.
>> So, our infidrome system that we're the IIA system we're proposing was supposed to be on for their hearing Monday night. Because of the storm, it was postponed till the 9th of February. That night, our consultants that designed and
building the system and the engineers will all be at the board of health to answer their questions. And we're hoping to get approval for the whole system that night. We can't pull any permits till we have that approved. Building, garages, anything. Well, I'm sorry. We can pull garage permits >> without bathrooms.
We can't pull building from it without approved board of health. >> Go ahead, Mark. >> Aside from the issues I have with this, I mean, that being the case, you're kind of putting the cart before the toilet even being here in the first place. >> Well, not really. We have bathrooms in
the units that we don't have. Of course you do. But I mean, does any And I'm going to ask the same question because honestly, Nick, >> when you came here in the beginning, and I asked you what the garage was for, you said it was he wanted to store all his equipment from all his other projects. Then you came back and you told us you
needed a place to store fire alarms and screens. And of course, everybody knows that screens don't come off buildings anymore. They stay on permanently for the most part. and fire alarms. I mean, the amount of fire smoke alarms you need, you can store in your lunch pail. Um, and
and I think this does anybody here know of any other project that has a a bathroom in it for um management office or whatever of of any 40B we've ever other than uh 704 Main Street, but that's a mixeduse and that's commercial
property and they they own the commercial. I think this is we're like I said before, we're in the business of affordable housing. We're not in the business of affordable office space. I mean, you're you're you're using town money to build this. And I I just think
it's a bad precedent >> all around. >> To respond to that, we're not using it for commercials. I'm withdrawing that request to put an office there. Just asking for a bathroom for the convenience of the workers so they don't have to use a porter party sitting in the parking lot. What does everybody and
all the other 40bs around do? I don't We've never had one of these, have we? >> No. Well, >> this is a pretty good size one. 40 units. >> There's bigger 40 bees around, but nobody has one of these. >> And and I can't
>> You're subsidized. We're allowing you to go over the lot coverage. You're getting money from the town. And I just think this is and and I just have to go back to what you said in the beginning. And I mean, uh, your request has changed, but I don't think your intention has.
>> That's >> just how I feel. >> Yeah. Well, I can't I can't address that. I mean, it's offensive, but I can't address it. Nonetheless, I'm asking for an insubstantial change. I'm asking for a change as we're here tonight just to put a bathroom in.
That's my request. >> What may I ask a question? >> Go ahead, Tony. >> What is the rest of the space to be used for? It's going to be for storage of water heaters, smoke detectors, snow plows, lawn m lawn maintenance equipment. Um,
>> I'm just talking about where the in front of the bathroom. That's the only spot. >> Well, that was going to be the work area where where they repaired things. >> So, you're not going to set up an office or >> No, we we give up on the office. We'll make the people uh to bring their rent or mail their rent or do something else.
>> No, no office. >> Let me go back again. Does anybody know of any 40b where we even allowed this much? No. I I I It's already too much. We went through mediation and then you come back asking for more and and like I said, this is
you're you're subsidizing and and I just don't believe that this isn't going to be filled with stuff from other projects that that this person owned because you said it the first time. And I mean water heaters. I mean,
how often what are these? Uh um I mean, how many water heaters do you need? Uh I just I What other equipment are you going to be repairing? I mean, it's just I I think you've already gotten more than
you deserve. I mean, originally you came here with a garage bigger than what you were providing for the tenants, and that was strictly for your own use and and the use of all the other projects he might have around town. I I I don't like it. I think you got enough already out
of and you went through mediation. Yeah. >> And then and then we're fresh out of mediation. You come back looking for more. >> And I might come back again for something if something changes. You you went back and changed the addresses on us. You know, these things happen. It's different and that's that happens at projects all over.
>> I mean, I mean, nobody else has what you're asking for. My bottom line, >> I I'm not here to argue. I'm making a request. I'm just asking to put a bathroom in, which is the definition of an insubstantial change. No change in bedrooms or anything. And it's in the
guidelines that you're allowed to. >> Commercial use is not in the guidelines. >> We're not doing commercial use. >> Anybody else have any questions? >> Not me. I'm >> Anybody else? Anybody from the public want to come up? >> Long sit tonight. Sorry.
>> Oh, bad bad hip. Too many years of abuse. Um, >> state your name. >> I'm getting there. >> Neil Garry, 77 Brick Kilm. question I have with this is as I went back and read over the approved plans, it said
there were two 24 by 12 garages. 20 No, 20 24 by 20. Two 24x20 garages on this site. One for the use of the single uh what do you call >> the dorm room? >> The dorms. Yeah. Whatever the the military housing. Um, and there was
another one that was going to be Kitty Corner on the corner, which was another 20 by 24. Just the two garage bays on this one. This does not look like a 20 x 24. Did we increase the size when we before we decided to put a bathroom in it? Did
we increase the size of this garage? >> It was actually bigger for a while. >> Oh, it was. But before when it was finally approved, it was approved as a 20x 24 tool. 30. >> Yeah. I guess as an explanation, what happened is the board did approve twocar
garages and then the developer appealed and it the appeal was remanded to the town and the board um at that time negotiated and agreed to allow one
garage to be essentially a threecar garage bay. >> I didn't see that. >> No. So that was um negotiated and then um filed as uh to sat satisfy the appeal.
>> Okay. So they they approved the extra the enlarged garage. >> Correct. >> With no bathroom >> without the bathroom. >> Correct. >> Okay. So the garage size was approved. >> Yes. >> Next. All right. I have one more question and I know I don't think it comes under your purview, but I'm going
to throw it out there anyway. uh only because I don't want to have to come back and talk to the board of health or the building department. Um once again, while perusing for the size of the garage, I noticed that this lot was set at a 29 ft grade.
No, sorry, not 29 ft. It's 42 feet from the side. It was 39 ft finished grade on the far west side of the the lot. Since that was approved and the septic system with it and the separation of groundwater from the bottom of the
septic system to the groundwater was worked off of the top finished grade being at 39 ft. But in since that time they've taken 12 feet off of that grade. So the whole grade has come down 12 feet. So now the
no longer the finished grade is going to be at 39 ft. That changes the whole parameters of where the bottom of that leechfield and septic system go >> because when I look at it, the finish grade was a 39 ft. The abuing property
is at 42 feet according to the grade charts and it seemed that the finish grade was a 39 ft abuing to that side of the property. That's come straight across. Since that period in time, they put in the drop inlets, the uh fire hydrants. So,
they've established the grade and the grade is significantly lower. 12 feet is my guess. I could stand there now at the side of that embankment. It's double my height. So, they dropped the finished grade down 12 feet. >> Did May I ask a question? Did the town approve this change these grade changes?
Did somebody in the town approve these? >> And and >> so that grade change will definitely affect the water system. >> Yeah. But without a and we >> well I understand I want to understand how did that happen? How does it how did it go from an approval here to such a
substantial grade change? I don't say how does that happen? May I yeah through the throw you to the >> Yeah. >> So at some point in time the peer engineer would be going out to inspect and that would be at um particular intervals and the developers to contact
the pier for an inspection when they hit particular benchmarks. So that should be something that the pier would observe >> and reject. >> But we um >> didn't didn't we condition a membrane? Yes. Well, the membrane is along my side.
>> Yeah, but that's on the on the opposite side. Talk about the other. >> Oh, the other. >> So, so let me just say we have an issue here that I think I think we have an issue here. So, the peer engineer would go out find out that there is this substantial grade change and then it
comes down to enforcing it and this board doesn't even know whether it gets enforced or doesn't get enforced or even has a say. >> No, >> I I don't understand that. We approve one thing and >> it's supposed to be per plan. >> Per plan.
>> Per plans. I mean, what's wouldn't No. >> All right. Let's Nick Let's Let's see what the other side says. >> See what Nick's gonna say. >> We're under construction. The finished grade is the finish grade when we're done. Not now. While we're under construction, it'll be the finished grade when we're finished. >> That's what the engineer will see.
>> Fire hydrants and storm grains are already in. >> The finished grade will be the finished grade when we're done. That's why the hydrants are there. That's the grade we're going to be finished to. And that's not the 39 ft that was on the wind. >> MD say when we're done. They got to sign off.
>> Um I mean I think >> all right sounds like a discrepancy. I mean he can unless you the fire >> the biohydrant and the storm grain went in last week. >> So we established hard grade.
The hard grade is not if you can't if you're going to finish it now, you'd have to put a ramp and put the houses up on a ramp. >> Well, Madam Chair, here's the real question. This is now out of our view. Things are happening behind the scene.
So, the question is, if the peer engineer goes out there and finds that there is a substantial finish grade change, which evidently is not in place right now, what will happen? >> Who will enforce what we've approved,
>> they would notify the developer and they would report to us and they would report to town engineering. >> But this board then it totally bypasses this board's approval. >> No, you set the conditions up
enforcement to enforce >> the engineering department. >> We're not the board of enforcement. We're not the board. We don't make determinations. We set the parameters. We set the permit. If there's significant deviations or anything that's outside of what we've approved, that's up to the building department to issue a cease assist or
>> but the engineer will determine that. I mean, it's not going to go unnoticed >> if it's >> that's what I'm trying to get to. Somebody's going to notice this. Yes. >> And I think the property the abutters have to stay with it because doesn't look like it's coming back to us at all if there's a change.
>> Well, nor can it turns out there is. It's got to come back to us. >> Take a look. >> Well, no. I just heard is that it it could it >> if the peer engineer says, "Well, look, you changed." And then it's got to go to the building department or the whoever is going to deal and they can say, "Well, okay.
>> Excuse me, please. We have to do asbuilt plans when we're done to get a CO. This will all come out in time and it's all going to be fine. I'm asking for a a half bathroom in a garage tonight." Take it.
Let us build the project and see what the asville plans show. Okay. >> It's fair. >> Yeah. >> Want to come up? >> Hi, Jennifer Gleason, 23 Sophie Lane. I'm abudding that 12oot drop and there's no safety netting across the back
property. So if someone cuts through my yard because part of mine is a gully and people can cut through and other neighbors is a big drop. >> He says he's got a safety issue to me. >> But in the meantime, while we're waiting
for him to fill it in, where is the safety netting if somebody comes outside? Part of my yard is fenced in, but a part of my yard is not fenced in. Where is the safety for the children who cut through that play in the that cut
through? We all know kids, they go where they want to go. >> Madam Chair, I I would be very I would be very interested if you go to the building department and bring that up. >> Yeah. >> Because that's their responsibility. >> Um >> I mean, I watch them.
>> What I'm saying is this. I would I would follow this myself if you don't get a response that there safety if there's if there's a safety issue and I haven't been out there and no one enforces that. uh so that you don't have somebody
falling off your property getting hurt. That's just as a citizen of this community, I'd want to make sure that the building department took care of you folks out there, but we can't. >> Right. So, I just want to I want it known that there is no safety netting
there or anything that if somebody cuts through any of that property, there's a 12oot drop. >> And we we weren't aware that that was going to be the case. Or maybe we would >> in the conditions are you supposed to fence the property >> and I mean I just safety Mr. Giri does
septic and I mean I mean the guy tomorrow >> can can run a level I think uh so I I'm just very confused here as to what actually is going on >> by >> and if we get rain is that going to wash out part of my yard like there's a 12t
drop. >> Holy cow. Well, might be six feet afteration. >> It might be, but the point is we get a massive rainstorm and it's going to it's going to wash. >> We're going to contact. >> Okay, >> we will.
>> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> All right, back to the back to the bathroom. >> Anybody else? Back to the bathroom. >> You guys all set? Any other questions? You all set to vote or >> I'm I'm >> You guys have any other questions on the
bathroom? >> I have no questions. Thank you. >> Tony, you good? Everybody good? >> I just want to assure I want to my I want to be assured if for some reason the board approved this. I've got all this He's got all this open
space and I I you can't conject that he's going to do something with it other than it's going to be used for something we wouldn't normally have approved in the past. And that's not what mediation was about at the time.
>> Um, everybody's going to ask for this. >> Yeah, if we approve this, >> you got to be careful with this. >> Everybody's going to ask for one. Don't think it won't be that way. Um, >> all right. So we have a request for >> insubstantial change >> insubstantial change >> of
>> uh no it's modification >> one bathroom only they've withdrawn the request from management office >> is that a motion Frank >> can be >> right I' I'd make a motion that we it's an insubstantial change and it can be
approved uh subject to board of health approval if necessary. We have a motion. >> Second that. >> Not me. You'll second it. >> I'll second it for the purposes to allow. >> We have a motion and a second. Motion
second. Any further discussion? >> I just think we have mediation. We agreed to something and it it kind of got turned on its head. I I fully understand. We want the workers to have a place to use the washroom, but it's not what we negotiated and I feel it's a
little bit in bad faith. I read the regulations that they can come back for insubstantial change 25 times if they want to. >> Yeah, we can say no 25 times. >> I know, but then but they can come back 25 times. >> Yes. Oh, >> maybe they'll get sick of us eventually. >> So, let's vote tonight. All those in
favor of the insubstantial change say I. All those against >> unanimous unanimously you're a yes. >> No. Five nos. >> Yeah. What? No. No. No. >> Thank you. >> Thank you.
>> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> All right. >> We will get a letter off too on that. >> Well, I I sent an email to >> Okay. >> to the uh >> I don't like when something's not safe like that at all. That's not >> I sent an email to
>> You said if you want to >> Everybody wants to hear. I mean, >> there's people at home >> they're Not exactly quiet or soft. >> Oh, you. >> All right. Thanks guys for coming out. >> But yes, that's like I said, I did send
a letter an email to the >> building department because I figured it's past your purview. >> But when they dropped the 12oot grade and I left it alone because it's like, okay, you could back fill it. >> Not likely, but you could because it's a substantial amount of fill they took out
of there in trailer dumps. >> Wow. >> But uh and it went to PA Landers. It went to Lynch and it went to Cape Cut a >> Agg was uh what was the quality of that stuff? Just out of curiosity. >> It just pure sand. >> Pure sand. No no no grit. No no no
rocks, no stumps. >> No, >> we won't talk about >> No top soil. No lom. >> No top Well, no. There was the top soil they scraped off that they called it top soil, but I wouldn't call it top soil. >> Yeah. >> Um that went out too. That went to Lynch. >> All the top soil was taken out and taken to Lynch. >> And no,
>> and I asked the driver who was hauling. be talking about this after they've done. >> Okay. I know. But >> all right, let's move on. >> It's a substantial drop. >> Thank you. >> All right, Norine, are we doing uh minutes? >> Minutes for January 8th and 15. >> All right, I'll make a motion to Has
everybody read January 8th and 15th? >> I will make a motion to approve January 8th and January 15th, 2026 minutes. >> I need a second. >> Second from Scott. All those in favor? >> I oppose? None.
We did too. Board discussion. You'll send a letter off Norine on that. Please. Anybody else have anything? Board discussion. No. >> Board updates. >> You got one. I'll just remind you, madam chairman of the board, I will not be here at the next meeting. I'll be happy
to send a email picture of me down in the tropics that day. Hope it doesn't get too cold in my absence. >> We want a 50s. I think we need a change of venue for the meeting. >> Hope it rains, I sunburn. >> Zoning administrative updates.
>> Uh, two recent administrative approvals. One for 52 East Harbor Drive. Uh, they are replacing their rear deck exactly as is. And then a slight bump out of their existing living room over an existing
deck. And then 38 Sunset Point is replacing and reconfiguring their front deck. >> All right. Is that the one we approved several months ago on the corner? >> Something on Sunset Point Road. Yeah, the one on the corner. >> Yeah, different different property.
>> Those are nice properties. >> Yeah. >> All right. >> Horrible view. >> Future agenda items. >> Anybody? >> All right, Mark. Motion to adjurnn. Madam Chair, when we >> Our next meeting is on February 5th at 6 p.m. We have a motion to adjourn. All
those in favor? >> I opposed. None.