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[Music] Welcome to the zoning board of appeals. Please silence all cell phones and note that this meeting is being taped by FCTV. If there's any private party recording the hearing, please step up to the podium to request permission. I'll
introduce the board and staff. My far right is Mark Finan, voting member. Then Scott Peterson, voting member, Frank Duffy, the clerk. To my right, I'm Suzanne Murphy, the chair. To my left is James Morris, vice chair. His left is Tony Patuuchi. And to his left is Nick
Haney. and Norin Stockman is the zoning administrator. The zoning board of appeals is charged with applying the state zoning statutes as well as the town zoning bylaws in reviewing and voting on every application. All decisions are made through the public hearing process. Our goal is to hear testimony from the
applicants and the public and to allow a full and fair discussion of the project prior to closing the hearing process and reaching a decision. Number one, to begin each hearing, the clerk will read the public announcement for the hearing and read pertinent information from the file. Two, the applicant or the applicant's
representative will then have 15 minutes to make a presentation. Time may be extended by a vote of the board. Three, the board will then question the applicant. Four, the public will be invited to comment. Comment should be limited to two minutes and be strictly related to the proposal. All members of
the public wishing to speak should wait to be recognized by the chair and should come to the podium. State your name and address for the record. Speak into the mic. It will not amplify your v your voice and record audio for FCTV viewers. And then before we take the first the
only hearing tonight up, we have a a moment where if anyone wants to make a public comment about nothing that's on our agenda, if anyone would like to come up that other than that we will start. So our first at bat
is 809, but Jim has to make a motion for us. Uh madam chairman regarding 809 sandwich road I move that the found zoning board of appeals has grounds to declare that a denial or approval with conditions of the application is consistent with local needs as defined in general law chapter 40b sections 20
to 23 and 760 CMR 56.031A and 3A because the town's subsidized housing inventory exceeds 10% and that further under 760 CMR 56.031B 031B and 4 for municipal compliance with its approved housing production plan and to provide the
requisite 15-day written notice following tonight's hearing to the applicant and to the Executive Office of Housing and Livable Conditions. It's a very fancy way of saying invoking safe harbor. I'll second. You'll second. Okay, Frank, you want a second?
I'll second, too. I'll third. And now we take a vote. Just need to be roll call. Yeah. 40 BS. You do roll call. Roll call. Vineran I. Peterson. I Duffy I. Murphy. I Morsai. Patruchi. I
All right. So Frank. Okay. This is application 059 of the year 2025. Felmouth Residential LLC has applied for the Falmouth Zoning Board of Appeals for a comprehensive permit pursuant to chapter
40B of the Massachusetts General Laws to construct 36 rental apartments with 13 units to be affordable. The properties at 809 Sandwich Road in East Felmouth, Massachusetts. I'll read some relevant facts from the application and also from the referrals that we have received from town
departments. The applicant is Bmouth Residential LLC. It is a limited dividend organization. Properties at 809 Sandwich Road in Eastbrook, Massachusetts. The property has 335 335.35
ft of frontage on Sandwich Road. So it that conforms to zoning. Um the property is 22,587 square ft, which comes out to 4.65 acres. So that conforms to zoning.
Um the uh project is known as an LI or LIP project which stands for local initiative pro uh project. Uh it was endorsed by the select board on December 14th, 2024 and we received a site approval letter from the executive
office of housing and livable communities on May 7th, 2025. The proposal is for 36 total units, 13 to be affordable, 23 to be market rate. The number of parking spaces required is 72. The applicant has proposed to
provide 94. The zoning district is agriculture A. Um the applicant has indicated that the site does not contain any wetlands, although we have a comment on that
later. Um then um okay so as I said the pro the project site conforms to zoning. I've given you the parking space information. Um the applicant indic indicates that the site is in a water resource protection district. However the
building commissioner sent us a referral saying that's not true. It's in a great pond coastal coastal pond overlay district. We'll have to sort that out. Uh the proposed lot coverage by structure is 22.8%. The zoning bylaw permits 20% with
25% by special permit from this board. That can be taken up in the comprehensive permit. The lot coverage by structure parking and paving is proposed to be 49.3%. The bylaw allows for 40%. So they're asking for a waiver of that. Um as far as the units go,
there'll be 13 affordable apartments. Um nine are to be two-bedroom. Uh four are to be threebedroom. As far as the breakdown for relative to income at 80% of area median income, there'd be eight twobedrooms and one threebedroom. 100%
of AMI one two-bedroom, one 3bedroom. 110% of AMI one threebedroom. 120% of AMI 3bedroom. Um the conservation commission has informed
us that uh there's a negative uh request for determination with respect to this property. Um there has been a phase one environmental site assessment provided by the applicant which basically says no problems were
observed. Now for referrals, the building department has again, as I mentioned, suggested that this property is in the great pond coastal pond overlay district, not in the water resource protection district as revealed in the application. The water department says that a new water man extension will
be necessary to serve the project and the water department will need an easement and a water main extension agreement. Also, each unit must have separate ser separate water service with the meter in the unit. Uh they've also recommended drought tolerant plantings
for landscaping. The housing coordinator has noted that this is a LIP or local initiative project. The select board endorsed it on December 14, 2024 and basically that the project aligns with the current housing production plan
goals. engineering. Um they recommend uh that the board engage a peerreview engineer to review the application and all other relevant information. They require request that the project comply with the town's storm water
regulations. Um that the driveway or internal roadway should meet the standards of a subdivision road as noted in planning board regulation 305-24 uh parenthesis 5. They request a site distance analysis for the um
intersection of Sandwich Road and the entrance way. They also have suggested that there should be some provisions for van accessible handicap parking spaces on the property. Um the town will not provide snow plowing for this project. The town will not provide trash and
recycling pickup for this project. Individual driveway should be a minimum of 18 feet to prevent cars parked in the driveway from sticking out into the sidewalk. Uh there should be an erosion control plan in place for construction. Uh the engineer also notes that there's
evidence that there's a pond, a resource area on the site. It's not revealed in the application. The conservation commission didn't report it, but that's a that's an area we have to address. They also suggest that the uh Bony Board of Appeals not wave the requirement of a
street opening permit and not wave the requirement of storm water permit. Um the planning board has submitted a rather lengthy app u referral. Uh they I'm going to hit the principal uh points of their referral. They we
should consider relocating the pavilion closer to the road. Uh removing building 17 14 15 16 17 a total of eight units to allow for a circular turnaround and site improvement functions. They're also concerned about traffic and traffic and
trucks generally getting in and out of the property at the intersection of the site roadway and Sandwich Road. They consider the site to be overly dense. Uh and note that the buildings are only 18 ft apart, which they don't like. Um they
also said that the plans do not show where residents will store belongings and they're concerned that a lot of personal belongings will be stored in the yard or in public view. Um the planning board also notes uh that they
not really excited about the agric the architectural quality of the buildings. Um they also suggest that the setback from Sandwich Road be a minimum of 35 ft as required by the Falmason bylaw as Sandwich Road is too busy for reduced
setbacks. The um proposed lock coverage of 22.8% is in the planning board's view too much. It should not be allowed. and the setbacks proposed front yard setback of 23.1 ft is in the planning board's view too short and they feel that waiver
should not be granted. We also have a board of health referral which says they have no issues at that at this time but then they haven't really seen the septic system designed to comment on it and today we got a referral from the fire department saying that the turnarounds on the site are adequate for fire
apparatus. Okay, that's it. So, whoever's going to present, come on up. Thanks. Good evening, Madam Chair and members of the board. Um, I'm here in lie of Well,
I'm I'm here in name, I'm sorry, Sean Scale. Um, Peter Freeman's not available tonight. He had a bit of a medical emergency this evening or this afternoon. So, he notified me at 2 o'clock. So, I'll be standing in. Um, I'm also U. So, my name is again Sean Scale. vice president,
director of construction for Falmouth Residential and Northland Residential Corporation, the proponents of the project at 89 Sandwich Road. What was your name again, sir? Sean S. Skill. S K E H I L L.
I'm also a longtime resident of East Balmouth and reside just about 2 miles from the site. Joining me tonight is Tim Santos from Merrell Engineers. He designed the the site for us uh for Northland. Alan Aerman, Ryan of Ryan Associates. He is a
landscape architect of record for the project as well. Um I'll go back through some some of the comments from Mr. Duffy. Current site uh is 4.65 acres in size, zoned agricultural a some may know it, uh the parcel of Smithfield Farm.
Smithfield Farm is now a defunct force boarding and training facility with several buildings now in disrepair. We're here tonight requesting a comprehensive permit pursuant to Mass General Laws chapter 40B to allow 36 new rental town homes to be constructed on the site.
The project will represent uh will present two um sorry will present 17 duplex buildings and two single unit buildings consisting of 18 two-bedroom units of approximately 1,200 ft and the three-bedroom units will be 1350 ft
approximately. 13 of the 36 residential units will be deeed restricted in perpetuity. Member Duffy gave the uh the breakdown of the affordability. So I won't I I'll skip that uh that point right now. Um prior to tonight, our team met with various boards and departments, zoning,
select board, etc. to arrive at the plan we're presenting to you this evening. Those meetings have yielded support and endorsements from the affordable housing committee, the select board. And we've received a project eligibility letter from EOHLC which is executive office of housing li and livable communities as a
lip or local initiative program. We've received comments from various town departments DPW engineering fire etc. We're sorting those out sorting through those as we speak. Um some of those they've been they've been coming in uh over the past week and two weeks. Um so we're going through those. I'm
sure there'll be more comments this evening that we'll address as we go. architecture for the uh for the site of the town uh is town home style direct entry units be utilizing designs previously constructed at Megan Crossing in North Balmouth
and before I hand off the presentation to our engineer and landscape architect would anybody like to ask me a question anybody want to ask any questions or continue with presentation your presentation continue we'll continue thank you thank Is this still on?
I thought it was, but I don't see any red lights on who's asleep. Uh, good evening for the record, Tim Santos. from Mel engineers representing the applicant. Norin, do you know how I get to uh
there's a password taped on top of the on the top? Excellent. Excellent. Okay, let me start again. For the record, Tim Santos from Merryill Engineers representing the applicant. Um, as stated earlier, the property is
located at 809 Sandwich Road, formerly known as the Smithfield Farm. um currently located across from the uh Hatchville Road intersection. Could you zoom in a little bit, Mr. Santa? Yeah, I'm this is this was just to kind
of give you an overview and I'm going to switch for the people at home, too. I'm going to switch to uh the site plans. Perfect. Again, 809 Sandwich Road is here. Hatchville uh Hatchville Road intersections right here. So, this is kind of the brief
overview from the town GIS map. So, what I have here is the existing conditions plan for 809 Sandwich Road. The parcel is 4.65 acres in size, currently developed with existing single family home, a barn, stables, and
various horse paddics. Obviously, the property is defunct, no longer used as the the horse farm, but it is currently used as an existing single family home. Uh property is located in the agricultural a zoning district and it is located in the Great Pond Coastal Pond
overlay district as shown on the plan. The water resource protection district that was checked on the application was inadvertently checked. So, we'll get that resolved. So, the applicant is before you tonight looking to redevelop the site. What I have here is the layout plan being
shown, proposing to construct 36 apartment units, 17 duplexes, and then two single units up the front. These units uh sum up 90 total bedrooms. The driveway entrance to the site is
currently where the existing entrance is. It will wind through the site, come to the eastern side of the site, and we have a T turnaround here that will allow plow trucks, fire trucks, any delivery trucks to be able to come through the
site and turn around. This T section here will also allow the vehicles to be able to turn around as well. Um, as stated earlier, we do have a lot cover proposed lock coverage by structures of 22.8%.
and proposed lot coverage by structures paving and parking of 49.3%. Uh we have 94 parking spots being proposed, two of which are handicap spots, one near the proposed pavilion
and one near the proposed play area. Um there was a comment in regard to making these spots have uh van accessible. That's not a problem. We can adjust the the opening for the uh striped area. So, that's not a problem at all with that.
Uh, the site is relatively flat. If you've been to the site, it basically the grade slopes from Sandwich Road down towards the eastern property line. So, what I have shown here is our proposed grading plan. All of the roof runoff will be go to dry wells, various
drywall systems throughout the site. The road runoff itself will be collected by a series of catch basins, manholes, and proposed treatment units and then will be diverted to a subsurface drainage system to infiltrate the into the ground
soils. The system is designed in accordance with the town standards as well as the state standards. Uh as stated earlier, there are 90 proposed bedrooms on the site. There will be a series of collection manholes and sewer manes
throughout the roadway that will divert all the effluent down to this area basically along the eastern property line in the center of the site be diverted to a septic tank proposed ditrification treatment tanks that'll flow then to a pump chamber and it'll
pressure dose the leeching field. This project would have to go before the board of health for that IIA approval prior to any building permits being issued. Um there will also be a proposed water man that runs through the site starting on Sandwich Road ending along
the at the eastern side of the site. There are two proposed hydrants, one in the middle and one at the end. Currently there are or there is one service per dwelling unit. One of the recommendations by the town water
department referral was to have one per unit. So that that'll be addressed when we make any changes to these plans. Madam chair, may I may I just ask you could you just repeat what you just said about weld? Did you say wells service? Water service. Water service. Water services.
I'm sorry, apologize. So each there was a part of the referral was that each unit has its own water service. So currently as shown on this plan, each building has its own water service. So that change will be made when we do revise the plans. So that kind of takes
us through what we're proposing on the site from a civil side. I'm going to turn it over to Allan so that he can discuss his landscape and lighting plans and I'll get him into the folder to make it a little easier. Then we'll address any questions you might have.
Thanks. Good evening. My name is uh just get situated here. So that's the cursor. Good. So, my name is Alan Aam and I'm with Ryan Associates Landscape Architecture and Planning and we've worked with Northland uh for a bunch of years now. And I think I'll start with
the illustrative site plan to um to give a little different view. And it's it is uh sorry for the rotation of the plan. It's uh east up, but it's how we uh if you know the site, if you're coming in from Hatch Road, you're looking into the site. And that's the
view you see today of the of the horse uh paddock barn with the fence across the front. And in the landscape plan in your packets, um we propose to treat the that sandwich road uh frontage very much the same way with the with the rail
fence and with our homes uh behind. And uh as Tim was saying uh the the home style is primarily duplex but flanking the entrance the boulevard at entry uh there are two uh single uh standalone
homes which is the units are one's a threebedroom one's a two-bedroom each duplex has a threebedroom a two-bedroom it's it's basically half a duplex so that we have that great sort of front door front porch uh frontage along Sandwich Road um coming up into the site
that pavilion that was talked about in in the comments from one of the boards is um will be visible from uh so as you look up into the site from Hatch Road um you'll see the the pavilion and what's proposed there is that um community mail
boxes will be there um a gathering spot for any neighborhood events and it'll be the way into uh what we've called in the village green which is that soil absorption area that Tim highlighted here instead looking at the outline of
the system below the lawn um and sort of the experience of the community sort of the area within a path that loops the the area that's about a 27,000 uh square foot uh green. So, um not as
big as a football field, but uh it's about 100 ft wide and almost 300 feet long. And that'll be sort of in the heart of the community. All the homes on the green uh will look out onto it and have um path connections to that green
area. And then the street is also uh has a sidewalk on one side. Street trees with the driveway layouts uh work out to be about between 30 and 40 feet on center. Um for scale, I think these are
40 feet on center. these street trees to give yourself a sense of scale. Guest parking distributed through the uh the neighborhood. Each um driveway as stated has a minimum of 18 ft so that anybody parking in
front of their each home will have a a interior stall. Um anybody parking in the driveway will clear um the sidewalk on the one side of the street, clear the bumper line, the gutter line on the other side of the street. So that all
functions uh safely. Continuing up the entire street front to back about 750 ft long. Um as you get towards the the rear of the community, uh there's a tot lot, little playground area. Um will
be geared towards uh younger child um childhood ages. um springer spring toys, climbing structure, small slides, uh a dog park, uh dog area, dog run behind. And then so the most of the homes,
whether they're on the green um in places like uh this shared space here, uh will let out uh front porch, back porch, uh into common area. This area here, as Tim said, functions
um as the emergency turnaround teed. And that's all that was, I think, in your packets today that the fire department accepted the the ability of the road dimensions to handle uh their trucks. So, we have the community path. Oh, and
here's a um the male pavilion um similar uh to the one that this is one that Northland recently uh built and completed at its community in Norwell. And what's proposed here and scaled here is is that
is that size. Um in Norwell the mail is accessed on the outside. whether we access it on the inside. Uh which may be the case here, but the same um sort of a
little bit more highly detailed in a gemlike way the uh the architecture of the homes. That's what I have. Any questions? Do you want to ask architectural I mean landscaping questions first while he's
up at bat? Yeah. Go ahead, Frank. If you have Well, we had the um I think it was the water department recommended that there'd be drought tolerant plantings on the property. Uh what provisions have you made for that? Yep. So, in your packets, I can pull
that up as well. We have the landscape plan showing typical plantings around the homes, typical plant list. Um the street trees are all all called out. Um what we typically do in um these communities is
uh drip irrigation if there is irrigation around the the homes. Um irrigate the lawns. I'm not sure we haven't gotten to that level of detail yet, but of course the plant pallet is appropriate for this area and native.
Um, are there plans for a well? Sean, is there no plan? Cuz I can't water I can't water my yard. So, you want to water on those guys? Same here. No plan as yet. No plan. Okay. As as Alan, if I can
site, you have to come up to the Come on. Yeah. As Alan alluded to, uh um our site in Norwell is fed by a well, we have we while we still used a lot of drought tolerant material. Um you still want to preserve and make the place,
keep the place looking good. Um so yeah, we want green grass and we obviously can't do it um with drought conditions like we've seen in our town here. Um so my lawn looks like yours. Um we don't want that here. Um, ideally it's not uh it's not the best look for for tenants.
My yard's yellow. So, no plan for to answer your question, no plan for a well at the moment, but it's likely critical period in, you know, is getting plants established. The water department said they'd only allow watering for two years. Yep. And once established, then
once it's established, that's what we encourage clients to do. It's hard to wean people's, you know, for us, any of us to wean our plants and lawns off from irrigation, but that's what um when it's required, right? That's what we um get have the chance to
do and that's what we encourage folks. Tom will allow them. So, what you're proposing qualifies as drought tolerant. Yeah. I mean, we have to and in, you know, in a case like this especially, um, you know, our client is is I don't
know your long-term plans, but this is a rental community, so you know, we have a uh we know who our our client and our owner is from the from the day one. And and in that sort of case, um, we can make that all work.
if they were single family homes for sale, that can be harder to, you know, for us to do anything about that in the future. But in this case, it's a single ownership and it's something that um can be managed. Any other questions on landscaping? Anybody?
I think we're all set for now. Thank you. Y architecture. Yep. for next questions. Do you guys want Mr. Santos up
engineering questions? Once the Madam Chair, once they done their presentation, I'd like to go through a series of questions that it only should take about three hours, but I'd like No, I'd like to just once they've made their presentation, just go
through if we could instead of peacemealing. It's up to you, Madam Chair, but you can start off. Are they done making a presentation? I think they are. Maybe they're going to wrap it up. I just had the architecture piece if you'd like if anybody had any comments
there. This is um the Mansa Crossing product um that was built in North Balmouth uh over the past one to three years. Um probably two years I guess. Um we have licensed the uh the plans the drawing set um from the architect um and
the developer of Meganza crossing the one on oh Mansa. Okay. So um we'll we'll be tweaking them. Materials will be very very similar to what's on you know many of our homes in Falmouth which is white cedar shingles. Um architectural roofs. We have porches.
We have garages. Every every unit has one big bay garage. Um, so and there's there'll be patio space and three bed. Well, the planning board totally stressed storage. There's no cellar, correct? Correct. And you do have a garage, correct?
So, if the kids bring the bikes in, there goes the car. Yep. Um, there goes the parking space. Right. There. So, there's really not a lot of storage at all. And there's no room for sheds. True. Are you going to have a anything to supply like
each tenant would have their the their unit, their garage, and we would not have a basement. Um, you know, most apartments don't have a basement. These are townhouse style, I know. Um, but you know, most apartments don't have a basement opportunity. Um, so um there'll
be no additional storage off it. No. Okay. May I ask a question? Go ahead, Tony. So ESC's are very similar to North Falmouth. You're going to have you're changing your front door entrance. You've got a very unique uh reverse entryway where the garages
are in actually the back of the house and now you'll take what was side of each house on North Falmouth is now going to go to the front. Very unique. Very actually quite nice the way you've done it. Your products are nice. You got Heidi board clabid is it's a white cedar
shingle you're going to be using. Yes. Yeah. which is unusual given that it's expensive. Uh and that's good. Uh all your decks are PVC. You I'm sure you haven't chosen the uh product manufacturer yet, but all your posts will be wrapped in um PVC or
fiberglass posts. Very in keeping. So just we we did 41 Old Main Road in North Palmouth several years ago. Actually, probably five or six years ago now. Um in keeping those are white cedar shingles. Yeah. Um same same materials, composite materials. um long living. We're going to own it and keep it in our portfolio.
So, we want it to look good for a long time. So, yeah, you'll have to with white see the shingles down here. Yeah. Um so, I mean, I think it's a it's a unique design the way we've set this up. Instead of setting alleyways up behind houses like they do down in the south a lot, this is
actually using the driveway. You really a road. It's really a driveway to get in from the back and then you your front door is a path way to do that. So is unique um and fits this site uh quite well. That is it. Uh time for questions.
Yeah, go ahead. Um just want to go through a couple questions and try to be brief just to better understand uh this. And I know your attorney is not here right now, but let me ask the question and come back to it. Um on May 24th uh Jack
Dolly, president of Northland met with town plan EBA administrative housing coordinator and on 7 July 3rd you met with the he met with the housing development um workg group. I'm just interested and to get a lip it has to be a cooperative feedback from both sides.
I'm just interested that what type of feedback did you get that change? What changes did you make to your plan based on that feedback you got on May 24th and July 3rd? I can't answer the question, sir, because I wasn't present. Yeah. All right. So, let me go past that.
Um, the next one is probably an attorney question. I'm going to go past that question about IIA systems, uh, which is a favorite of certainly mine. I can only speak for myself. Do you happen to know uh have you chosen a system product that's going to best uh that's going to
be best available nitrogen reduction technology with 10 milligrams? Yes. Can I can I hand this off to Tim? You can hand anybody you want. He's the expert. Yes. Um the plans before you show a nitro system. So we we would be applying to again to
the board of health and D for approval. So, I appreciate that. Thank you. Another question since you're there up there. Uh, IA systems tend to have well, they have an operation and maintenance program or they're it's required to have that. Um, you have a gang system here
versus individual septic systems. So, I guess more out of curiosity, uh, generally speaking, the numbers, you know, we we've all been to the water health meetings, all that. the operation and maintenance of these things per year run all over the place. You hear a
thousand, you hear $500 a year, things like that. Electricity, all the blowers and the inspections on something like this of this size, and I'm going to get to a question has to do with affordable housing. Um, how does that change when you gang these
together? I mean, is it is it now $2,000 a year? Is it is it exponentially bigger because it's all in one place? Um, okay. So, I would look at it this way. If you said it was 36 houses and $1,000, so
36,000, it's nowhere close to 36,000. So, this is basically like looking at one. So, it's a shared system. Yeah. Okay. And they're going to come out there and they're going to do their inspection, look at the septic tank, look at the treatment units, look at the pump chamber, pull the samples, deliver it to the lab, and file their reports.
So, not not a big deal. nothing is going to affect the rents of affordable houses of the affordable units. All right, that that's where I was going with that. Um, Tab 10 uh site lighting plan, is that Dark Sky compliant or dark sky friendly?
And then what is the lighting plan on each house? Sure. So the I don't if we have the cut sheet here. I'm sorry there there isn't one. So it's a solar fixture solar powered fixture for the street lights. And I
would have to review whether it's it's dark sky um compliant compliant fully or friendly. It's most likely friendly just just based on on what most manufacturers are willing to label their what you're going to have to do to maintain that
right compliance. Right. Right. So likely it's dark sky friendly. Yep. Okay. So that will just you'll confirm that at some point in time. Yep. So um on the homes the lighting is primarily
what um will be housemounted for code. So the at at points of egress down lighting down lighting. Correct. Down lighting. So that'll be we'll be showing uh some kind of cut on that. It'll be part of our records. Yep.
Um down lighting and you'll provide cuts on that while you are up there. Um um and I don't want to hold you too long. Um no, let me let me go ask on the construction side. I I appreciate that. May I continue on this? Yeah, keep
going. Yep. Um on the on the um on the traffic review, um Vaness is your traffic engineer on this. Um
and it is likely that we're going to need a peer review on that. When you are considering the traffic flow for this project, we have a very very busy street, a very dangerous street, all of that.
And we have really three major projects. This makes the second one. The one that'll be coming for us shortly will be the third one. When you in talking with um the Ness, you only have to supply
what applies to your project on this thing. Um but because and this is something the planning boards actually brought up because you have an abuing relatively large 50 unit coming up and you got 300 units down the street that
will start whenever they start. Um, I I don't speaking as as one board member, I'd like to see what the implication is for just your 36 units, the 50 units next door to you if that should be approved. And of course, it's already been approved, 300 units down
the street. And I think that um I I as one more I can only speak for myself. I'd like to know more about how that affects Sandwich Road. It is a very dangerous busy road. So that's where a place I might try and convince the rest
of the board members to go to to get more information on how all of it comes together versus just your one project. And um and I want you to know these things so you can think about them and get back to us at a later time. Um
Vaness did the one at uh 375 Sandwich Road and has all the information for that project anyway. It's sitting in their files. However you work that out. Um what what effect um and this is something else has been brought up by
the uh planning board. You have a very you have a a um road entrance directly across from your driveway entrance. Uh that's Hatchfield Road which creates a an issue. I can't remember what part of the code is involved here or
how do you plan to address that? Which which you have a you have a direct exit right across the street from Hatchville. We're not direct. We're We're just But you're more You're less than 150 ft. Definitely. Yeah. Absolutely. But I mean, is that an issue? I mean, there are people here that think that
might be an issue. Sure. Would you think about that? I will think about it. Sure. Because that's a driveway entrance. Um, and I'm getting down to the bottom of this. Um, site density. Um, the planning board has
considered that the uh site density is is quite heavy. In fact, um, you know, we are as a board constantly being reminded that we need to be consistent in the way we approach things. So, I'm going to try and be consistent here with
regard to site density. Uh, another 40bs that this board has approved, 213 North Felmouth Highway, the site density is 3.43 units per acre. 19 North Felmouth Highway, which was recently approved, that's 3.75 units per
acre. And then you come in with 4.6 65 acres is 7.74 units per acre. Now granted, 375 Simage Road on 30.46 acres is 9.85, but that was before we were at Safe Harbor. So,
we got to maybe have a little more input on that. So, your site is very densely packed. The planning board is concerned about that and certainly this member is concerned about that density. Uh, but I want you to think about that. I don't expect you to solve it unless you want to just take out the eight units the
planning board wants you to take out. Don't want to do that. 14, 15, 16, 17. So if that's not something you're going to do tonight, then just think about this. Sure. On that whole thing, I'm going to come back to it and whatever next meeting we have. Um
so you've reviewed by this time you've reviewed all the department um comments particularly planning board um and engineering they're packed with a lot of concerns.
Do you have a plan to address those to this board uh and how you would overcome those concerns? Sure. Some some we'll be able to overcome, some we may not be able to overcome. And so I I this one board member would like to at some point in
time know how you will overcome them and the ones you can overcome why you wouldn't overcome them because they're very valid concerns. Um and I think that I know that I'd like to hear more about that at some point in time. Um and I just want to put that on your list of things to do so the next
time you come here. the um the there are no plans or at least I couldn't find them and there's copious amount of material or in the files in the office. I can't find any elevations and floor plans for the two single units out front.
Um and maybe it's because you've just taken the duplexes and just took out the middle. That's exactly the reason. Yes. And that's why they're not in there, but it's the same floor plan. And so that's the answer to that question. Um,
now let me just go to the concern about storage space. You've got uh crawl space and I I understand the rental units and all that, but as the chair pointed out earlier to you, uh there's now room for sheds. You've got a garage. You've got a small area in the back of the garage to
store bikes, things like that. You've got a mechanical area on the first floor of these units, which is it's a wonderful thing. Um, you're using a roof truss system. Would you ever consider using a box truss with a drop
down stairs for some, you know, minor attic space? For attic space, you know, and obviously you know the box trust. Sure. For attic storage. For attic storage, we consider Yeah. Now, box trusses are slightly more money. Sure, they are. Than but not that much more money. Will you be able to can this gives you an
opportunity to look at it? Yep. An idea because I think it's a concern certainly for this board in the past as to what do you do with all this stuff. Rental units tend to bring kids and that's a wonderful thing and they got to put things places. So I'm going to ask that question again about a Brock's trust in in attic
storage. Um I uh pursuant to that you also have plywood on the floor. Yeah. Yeah, we'll fly with it. And then would you have enough uh to properly insulate?
Well, that is going to be another question of mine because the planning board is concerned about getting to and I'm not going to get to net zero on your hers rating and all that, but but yes, that would have to come into play. We we're a stretch community, aren't we?
Yes. So, you're going to have to meet a lot of standards on that whole thing. Well, to to member Feneran's point, insulation is, as you know, in the attics these days, insulation can be 24 28 in in depth. So, of blown in. Exactly. Yeah, of course. Um, you know,
one way you overcome that is you go with a hot roof, spring foam, you know, on the underside of the sheathing and you can get there. But yeah, that that's an opportunity. Sure. And and we bring these things up because you need to talk about them later on and it gives you time to understand the expense. You know, your expenses. you've
built this before and you pretty well know where your costs or who knows where costs are going these days. Um there's also a concern um by the pling board about your HVAC system. Not sure what it is. They like to say heat pumps. What is your uh air source heat pumps as well?
Air source heat pumps. Hot water system instant or hot water tank. I'm sorry. Your hot water system. hot water would be um re well actually the the most recent project we did we used a conventional hot water heater electric hot water
heater. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Um landscaping we just talked about um I think for the moment and and I have more questions but I I think it's not
fair for me to keep going on right now. We could come back. Come back Jim. Uh so general comments that this is the first hearing. I'm always concerned when anything in an agricultural a is going to be redeveloped especially when it's actually being used for agricultural purposes. Um I would be prepared to
address all of the planning board's referrals. Uh I'm also very concerned with the things that they picked up on about sighteline about density. Um you've heard uh Mr. Petruchi did a significantly more d a deeper dive into the actual density than I did. Uh but I was noting uh you're looking at seven
units per acre on here where the average at most 40bs is around four. So the lot coverage comes out to something around a quarter acre significantly less. Um this just looks what's up on here very busy for the location. It doesn't really conform to what a lot of the structures
in the surrounding neighborhoods are. Um, it's a concern and it's one that I'm going to suggest that you might want to think about some reductions because we're at a point now where this is a discretionary grant, not a mandated one. Um, I appreciate the fact that you are
giving greater than the minimum 25% of affordable units. U, I think it's laudable that you're giving two at 100% m amii, one at 110, and one at 120. The question more towards the board is, is that enough of a concession for what's going to be asked? And I think it's meaningful of the discussion as to
whether or not we're going to get past an outright no. Um my uh my thought is u people still have to live there and the density concerns me along with the
lack of storage. Um the housing production plan at Felmouth, one of the identified needs is one-bedroom units. Was there any discussion to put a series of one-bedroom or perhaps one of these buildings to have three one-bedroom units?
If there was, I wasn't present, so I I can't speak to it. But typically, um I I'll tell you that what we see in the marketplace, particularly with rentals, um a two-bedroom is is more desirable, you know, with families and, you know,
couples and space needs. We've brought the issue up before. Uh in terms of the rentals, um are you planning on having any sort of um minimum stay? I mean, we've we've asked if we'd be willing for conditions of uh one-year rental periods. I understand
that, you know, rental properties would prefer steady tenants, but it's always a concern for this board. It's always a concern for neighbors about is this going to get turned into a a short-term rental community just for the summertime or comment on that? Yeah, I can I can say
that with conviction. Um, again, thank you for the DITE system. We've been struggling with nitrogen. This board is always struggling with the issues of development. Um, thank you for that concession. I realize that it's not mandated, I believe, in this location, but it's something that we continue to
struggle with. Um, I too share the issue about the lack of storage, lack of basements. It's very easy for a property like this, especially in the proposed configuration and density to become very cluttered. Um, I would consider again if there's a
reduction in the total number of of uh buildings or the addition of either sheds or something that to allow for for storage for tenants. Uh, otherwise it's it just can be very very cluttered very very quickly. Um, those are the majority of my concerns. Um, I look forward to
your responses. is I may have some additional questions for you after feeding back from your potential neighbors. Thank you. I have a couple. Um the intersection with Hatchville Road is a huge one for me, too. It's it's section 305245 in parenthesis if you go to look it up.
Okay. But the engineering department pretty much stressed that it needs to be aligned. I don't know if you looked at that. And um my other question that I found odd needs to be what? Aligned. Aligned. Oh yeah. Um the lip has different prices
than our packet that we received. Do you know why there's two different I don't rental prices? I don't. You got to look into that one for me. Please. You're saying You're saying um the lip was lower.
The lip in in in the binder that was provided. The lip that I read in the file that you presented to Mass Housing has lower prices than what you're projecting to charge now. Okay. And then can you show me I don't know if
you can with this fire pit is going to go fire? We don't know yet. It said fire pit and amenities. What does amenities mean? Well, amenities mean just a place a gathering space. So if you like benches or something? Yeah. Well, benches. We We've done a
fire pit. It's a propane lit ga gas fire pit. Um that's been out in the, you know, could be I'm just worried about kids raising havoc um on the septic. Well, near the walkway, let's say. Um it's not
a structure that goes in the ground. It's really it's above ground. Um the propane tank would have to be cited obviously somewhere underground. Um and aderond chairs get placed out there. It's a place for people to go out. People might go out and collect their mail at the pavilion area. Could be part of that pavilion area. Actually, Allan
shows right here. Is that a fire pit thing? It's not a fire pit, but that looks like patio. Could be a patio. I just worry about kids raising havoc with it. I'm a mom and I know my kids would be out there in a minute causing problems. Y and the other problem was the planning
board um wanted the pavilion. At least when I watched their meeting, they wanted the pavilion. Now you were planning on using that for the kids for the bus stop. Yes. So they're going to run across the street like a two-way street. You mean you mean Sandwich Road or you mean
No, they're going to run across your street two ways. Yeah. To get to the end of Sandwich, you know, on to get to Sandwich Road. Yeah. The bus is going to stop on Sandwich Road. Of course it is. Yeah. So they would be presumably out there with parents or others um or together and they would they would you know a bus a bus stop a
bus would stop here and the the children would would come right down the street. It's not a highly traveled roadway internally. Um it will be in the morning. There's a sidewalk. Sorry Alan, you're right. There's a sidewalk as well provided in front of the pavilion that that blue
thing. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay. I think that's all I have. But check into that lip for me. I thought that was, you know, um, density is still huge for me. I don't like those two little baby buildings that are right on Sandwich
Road, like on Sandwich Road. Um, I don't know if you've ever driven it. I drive it every day, multiple times a day. I've lived here for 27. You want a house? 18. Well, 22 feet from Sandwich Road there. So, it's pretty close. The engineering really wanted the 35 on that. You'll go
now. you when you do look at that sa interrupt. I mean, why wouldn't you slip back those units into your village green area to conform with the 35 ft step back? It seems like you can do that. Dog park.
Any looking for 12t question? That's what I'm saying. Again, just something for you folks to continue to think about. So, we are 35 ft per metric paving. Um the closer number is the property line which is the setback standard of course
but in terms of how it lives where edge paving is today it's 35 is that the edge of right away or paving paving asful that's the right away that they made the distinction but just to clarify that he needs to be at the podium because
otherwise FCTV will will pick up sorry it's just um they they do tape the meeting and So if somebody wants to replay it or rewatch it, they they won't be able to hear you. Sure. Thank you. Now, I would just
clarifying that the 35 ft from edge of paving and and the the the rightway property line is is uh is the number that we've been quoting, which is the correct number to quote as our setback, but as it lives and how it feels on Sandwich Road. Um edge of paving is out
here. So just a small clear just a small note. Okay. I'm also Frank if you have your questions. Uh well many of the questions that I have lined up here have already been asked. So I'm going to ask a couple and then just give you some of my comments.
But um in your presentation of the view of the the architectural reviews, uh I'd like to see and show the public the view of the units that they're going to see from the street. because you showed the
front of one unit but not the back. And the back it's the back that's going to be seen from the street. Right. Correct. So we should see that I will tell you that that's the front. It doesn't mention fencing or anything. So, while this is the architectural
theme, we will be modifying these units a bit, but that's what you're going to see, for example, from the common area. Yes. But if you drive by on the roadway, you're not going to see that. You're going to see something else. You see a garage bay. Well, can we see that?
Sure. Two sides here. Two more sides. Yeah. Well, we want to see what we're going to be looking at. That's what they're up there. Let me see here. Um, was it the last one we opened?
I think you closed it. Did you close it? Right. So this is the the view the this is the front that will face Sandwich Road. Well, no, but did some I'm talking about the internal roadway. All the homes facing Sandwich Road will
have this elevation facing Sandwich Road. Yes. And this is a side elevation. And then internal to the project as you drive through the neighborhood, you you will see the garage doors. And this is the elevation of the of that
side. So, there's a small porch here, the two stalls, the front or back door, and the side. All right. I just wanted to see what you're going to see when you drive down the street. Yes. The our internal street, correct? Yeah.
All right. Now, u the planning board in its re recommendation uh suggest well I guess they really requested that all driveways between the garage door and the sidewalk be a minimum of 18 ft so cars wouldn't
obstruct the sidewalk. Has that have you figured that in? Yes, that's accommodated. What What is the length of your driveways? Do you know? Santos said it was 18 18 to the edge of the sidewalk. 18. Okay. Um I noticed in one of the referrals and
I think it was from the engineering they showed that Oldtown records show a pond on this property but conservation commission didn't mention it. Uh have you looked into Yeah. into that. There's definitely a pond there. So, I believe part of the package that
was filed with with this project included the um negative determination, the RDA. So, negative under an RDA is a good thing, which what it means is that we don't need to file a notice of intent or an ENRAD application. We had a wetland
scientist go out there. We had Jen Mc was Jen McKay that met the wetland scientists on site and they reviewed that low area. So it is not a wetland in accordance with state or local bylaws. Okay. I just Sorry.
Go ahead. So So Concom has agreed you don't need an NRA. Correct. And so everybody understands it's just that was one of the first things we did because if you look on your town GIS map, it shows it's a pond. Well, it was an old depression that the
cows or the horses, I'm assuming, must have drank from at one point in time. So, we did meet with them on site to review this. And we did file an application that went before conservation and they approved it that it is not a wetland resource area in accordance with state or local.
I saw that. But I'm glad to know that that particular issue was uh discussed and and voted on by the by it was one of the first things we did because otherwise we would have to have a buffer. Okay. So it was just like a swale that occasionally filled with water
recently. If you if you look at old areas, it does show water in there, but it's not doesn't have hydraulic soils that would that would regulate it as a wetland. So it's a depression. No cat and ninetails happening.
Okay. And that's going to be filled in. That'll be just filled in. Correct. Okay. The next uh I'm going to make a couple of comments. Now, I am I've read that I was very impressed by the planning board's uh referral. I thought it was very thorough and very
instructive and very helpful. Um I share their concern about the setback on the pro on Sandwich Road. Now, it's just been explained that the setback is 35 ft from the pavement, but we typically require 35 ft from the property line. Um, which is different in most cases. In
fact, almost all cases is different. Um, ordinarily, I wouldn't be too concerned except that this is on Sandwich Road, which is probably the second or third most busy road in the town. And uh I think that's something that should you should give some consideration to that
because living that close to Sandwich Road can be annoying uh unless you've got some special kind of insulation in the property or some other consideration to to help these people enjoy living there. Well, we will review that. Right. Will it be fenced?
Just just so Sandwich Road itself, that's the only fence you'll have or the whole No, the the the plans call out fencing along I can pull those. Sorry to interrupt you, Frank. No, no, no. Sorry. Oops.
I didn't see fence on just Oops. the the fence. It's called out on the plan that we would fence have the the um the rail fence. There's similar fence there. The one that's there now for sight.
Yep. So, an open rail fence. So, we're not walling ourselves off, but we're showing that along Sandwich Road and continuing along the edge of the community path that circles the green. So, all the way along this side
and the other sides are just grass. Um, so we do have a a retaining wall behind these homes here and that was in the comments as well. Sure was. So that will need and have a fence on on top of it. Um, we've shown here
on top of that the the inclusion of some sort of screening a fence in case there's any um, you know, at the end of this driveway in a critical spot and then we're showing uh, fence in the plan
around here. The dog run of uh area park is also fenced of course and the playground will be fenced so that the so that the um we keep those separate. There was a lot of comments about that fence on the retaining wall and and we
really that's another thing for homework. We need a lot of calcs on that retaining wall. They wanted a lot of Yeah. Yep. We saw that comment. Yeah. Well, I I would just like to see uh some way to ameliate or improve the
experience of the people living closest to Sandwich Road. If you go up and down the road, you'll notice that most of the properties on Sandwich Road are set back further. Sure. And um they're set back because of a re there's a reason for that and I'd like you to consider that. Um
the uh I was concerned about the buildings 14, 15, 16, 17 and the turnaround, but the fire department said they're not. So, I guess I'm not going to get too worked up about it, but I I am concerned about the apparent lack of storage. Um, the experience that we've
had with many of the 40Bs that we have approved recently, the applicant has provided specific uh provisions for storage of of all the stuff that you accumulate in your home. And uh I think it goes a long way to for
the appearance of the property and perhaps even the safety of the kids playing around it. So I am concerned about that and I share my the concern of the other members. Okay. I'm also concerned about the alignment of the internal roadway and Hatchville Road. Uh and out out front here.
Yeah. Out front. And I also share the concern of the um planning board about the density as evidenced by what Mr. um Petrusi said where they he calculated the density of 7 point units per acre. It's uh getting pretty close to
tolerance. Okay. Thank you. As Sean can probably tell you, there are huge trucks on this road that come out of Tommy Landers. I mean, we're not talking just a little box truck. I mean, cement mixes all, you know, they're going right by these
houses and they're 22 feet, you know. I mean, it's just on the homework list. Thank you. Uh I guess Mr. Santos, if you want to get some steps and come on back up for a minute.
Get some steps. Uh to everybody on the board's uh point that they mentioned, there's there's a lot of questions that have already come out that uh you know from all all the different boards. So I'm sure you'll have to get those answers for us. the
bio retention area there that's just over the scale in the hatched area. Could you just kind of correct just kind of walk walk us all through? Is that at the same elevation? Is it at a reduced elevation? What's the So you're talking about
beehive grate area. You're talking about this area right here. Correct. So basically that's just to contain the runoff from this grass. I'm not sure what that was. Great reduction in number of units. Good start.
That's a puzzled look. Yeah, exactly. It is a puzzled look. Town's not paying the internet. Let's try this again. All righty. So, that that's basically that whole area of that grass uh park area drains
down. So, it's not draining off site. drains down into this low grass uh bile swale here. It's a It might be like a foot and a half, two feet deep tops. That's all it is. And so when it's kind of like a grass swale, so when it fills
up with water, maybe like I think it's like 12 inches above the bottom, it hits the gray and then collects and goes subsurface. It's just it just in order to meet the town and the state standards. So that's the 100redyear storage kind of
correct. Okay. And again, you know, would be nice to find a spot for some additional storage in the village green area if that's obviously that's posed to you. Um I you know it's traffic too. Uh you have
a large development. I I believe if I read it correctly, the Vanesse review did include the potential project uh that's coming on from the south. I'm not sure if that's who's supposed to answer that question or that's somebody's understanding that
that was in your numbers. I can't it did. It included it was Yeah. Yeah. Look towards the left. I think it was page nine or so just to confirm. We're punching in a lot of traffic right at that kind of that radius is starting
to turn a little bit better. You got a old meeting house, too. Yeah. So, line of sight with yours seems a little bit better, but uh the folks that are coming in behind you. Um architecturally, I mean, I I think you did a nice job uh using quality uh
material. So, I I didn't have any issue with that. But, uh we'll see you on the next round where there's a lot of questions that you have to answer to uh get us through. But do appreciate the IAS also. That's all I have for now. Thank you. Thanks.
Um well, mind you, it's just the first night, but um it's always kind of been my understanding that six units per acre was the uh the high end of things. Um
it I I am a little concerned with the density and and also I mean you know it might look good on paper but uh there's going to be people backing in and around every spot in this place all day long and
most people around here can't even drive forward. Um so that's a bit of a concern. And then as I said, storage um you know uh
it seems like uh bicycles and extraneous items could clutter this place up quite quickly, but like I said, it's just the first night and I left my paperwork at home.
I guess sorry could you elaborate if you know you're required to have 72 spaces for parking but you're providing 96. Yeah. We look at your uh lock coverage total lock coverage at 49.3%. Wouldn't you want to potentially make
some of these parking spaces with a something that would allow the water to run through it as opposed to asphalt? So some of the spaces are within the garage itself. within the garage itself. Correct. Good point. Thank you.
Answered. Um I just read uh something the other day where uh in the United States um I think it's only 25% of the twocar
garages out there can hold one car or something extremely uh cluttered, stupid. Um, and I'm I'm glad you gave the extra spaces because uh how many of these garages going to end up filled with
stuff stuff? 75%. I wouldn't know that is that's where a little storage would help and certainly lower that potential. But u said it's
just the first night you've heard and I'm good for now. Three bedrooms is scattered, right? Yes. So, the kids will be scattered. So, the bikes will be scattered. Okay. Tony, you want to follow up? Yeah. Um,
one of the things I think you've heard it all across the board here is the density issue. We know it's twice what has been recently approved. I guess my question to the developer uh is uh why does this project warrant twice the
number of units per acre than others? And um because and that's one question. Again, the planning board is concerned about it. They'd like to see you uh move 14, 15, 16, and 17. That's eight units.
Um of course, that'll change the ratio on uh 80% of AMI. the 25% only minor amount. But what why is it justified to do this? Why is it it makes the project viable? The number of units is what makes the project
feeling you'd say that. Yeah. Well, that's the answer. And the the other answer I would give you is that you're getting you know chapter 40 requires nine units of the site and we're giving 13. Um so that's you know that helps the community helps our community in my
so in exchange for the additional beyond the 25% 80 80% AMI that's this is that the extra three units are compensation for the density well they they make the project viable plain and simple you can't build a
project and lose money you know I I live in town I I hear all the rumblings about affordable housing I know the story raised my kids here. My kids don't live here. They lived elsewhere. Um they've gone gone to college and done their
thing. Um I will live here until I go on the ground. Um um but um you know you know that said you you just can't build a project and lose money. You can't you know so you have to have the density for a place like this. And the trade-off for the density is you are getting an
additional four units almost 50% more units. This is and I appreciate this is a multi-level question. Again, as I said earlier, we are always reminded that we have to as a board and board members, we're all independent board members um find a consistency in how we treat in
the equality and how we treat each project and because it makes it viable. I I think your architecture is be I think the way you set it up is beautiful. The issue is density. But if we are being consistent, I think this has to be asked. It has to be answered.
You've answered it with vi uh economic viability. Um but it's a uh it's inconsistent in what this board would normally see, especially since we're in safe harbor. This becomes more of a negotiation because we're in safe harbor than it
does anything else. Um all I'm asking you is that you would I I knew the answer was going to be it. think about this. You talk to the principles involved and uh very professional company. You're a very professional company. You've been around
a long long time. Sure. And uh but I the question might come up again. It's not going to go away. It's in the other board reports. My last thing, Madam Chair, is um uh if this is is to to continue, which
it sounds like it's going to continue, um this board needs to probably ask for peer reports for traffic site engineering and the planning board is suggesting on the waiverss. Um will we be going that route because
that's they're going to put some money up on this thing. Yeah, let's ask Norin. Norine through you, Madam Chair. So, for all of our 40Bs, we always uh request the engineering peer review.
Um, and then I guess the the traffic is, you know, separate. If that's something that the board wants to have it peer reviewed, you can certainly ask for that as well. I don't I would like to request that if our we do hire the if they pay to hire the peer review
um that it does include traffic. We have very significant traffic here. We have significant projects up and down this street and it's a concern of everybody. Um, one of the things that has always concerned me with peer review is is um
is it is that our peer reviews they they come in, they make their comments, they do a very professional job of commenting um and then they end up by saying that of course it's up to the board. I would certainly hope that our peer review just
make their their professional comments and then not we'll decide what to do. We know what we're going to do. We just need the professional input and we and I'm just suggesting to be better that our peer is refrain from saying but we'll leave it up to the board. It's
kind of an out uh on the professional level. But I I think that's pretty standard. I think what happens is so you they're they're a little bit in a pickle and that you're asking them to to look at something but they're not
making a determination for you. Right. I'm not asking for determination. I'm looking for the professional recommendation recommendation. We will decide whether or not that recommendation fits for us and theoretically would they're professional especially the ones that are used. But I don't want an out for
our peer engineers. Now later on we can have the discussion maybe offline but that's just my input to that. I don't care about tradition. I care about getting the information without any bad news. Yeah. I think just from a technical perspective they would not
be hired to suggest to you that if this project had half the density that it did that you would be happier. Right? That's, you know, they they walk a very fine line about the fact that they're trying to help you,
but that they are not trying to tip the scales in any way. Right. I just want a professional opinion. I don't want them to tip the scales. I want a professional opinion. That's all. Bottom line. We're paying them. I'm only one member of this board. It's up to the board to decide what to do. No, it it's just a recommendation. It's
probably just a word that you saw that it's it's a recommendation. All peer reviews are, but just I'm asking to refrain from Well, it's up to the board. Well, anyway, I I'm going to leave it. I don't want to take up anyone's time.
So, we're looking for two peer reviews. Is that what the board everybody say? Site engineer and the planning board's suggesting that they review. There not many waiverss here. Yeah, we don't need we don't I don't think that the waivers we can figure the waivers out. Yeah. Didn't the last peer review we had
was capable of doing both of the on the engineering one? Yeah. Well, you do have some issues here that the roadway Yeah, there is that roadway issue. I mean, usually you get a developer coming in and they and they want us to wave every bylaw that exists in the in
the book. And um we've done a pretty good job of isolating these down reasonable, but it's up to the board. engineer and traffic is fine with me. I don't think we need anything else and it's not a lot of money to get the additional optics on it. So,
and an engineer can do the storm water. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Madam Chairman, if I may. So, I I did get a letter from Norine or from Ashley regarding and I delivered a check yesterday um for their storm water analysis which was 3,800.
So, yeah. So the the town does have a company that they use for storm water review. Oh, okay. But unfortunately, that company doesn't have the capability to send staff here to talk to the board. So they would strictly be reviewing the storm water
aspect and then you could have a site engineer come in and talk to you about all those other details. Oh, okay. Okay, that would work. Yeah. and they would review that for us. Mhm.
Yeah. As before. So, so just to clarify, so when you're looking at those units at the far end, which is what, the easterly end of the development. Mhm. So, if you know it's an Amazon delivery or something like that and they
pull to the last units, the only way for that truck to turn around if everybody's home, for example, is to back out to the to that T location there. Yeah, cuz I guess that would be one of my
concerns would be, you know, in the front. Yeah. Don't don't go there. I notice most drivers get smart pretty quickly and they pull in and they walk from that location instead of backing. Wait a minute. And then the the parking per unit will
be one space within the garage and one in the driveway. Is that how it's set up? Yeah. So there there would be one space within the garage and then one within the driveway. So just just to comment quickly on what I'm going to call a T turnaround. I mean, the planning board
allows TE turnarounds for subdivisions. So, I But not dense like this one. Subdivisions. Yeah. Well, dimension regular subdivisions. Well, I'm just talking dimension wise. So, you come in, you drive in and then you back up and you turn around and it just has to have
the right radiuses for the vehicles to turn. And if the fire truck can turn, every other truck can turn. I'd be more than happy to supply Amazon truck turning movements or whatever else you might need. But when the fire truck can turn, every other truck can turn.
The reason why I ask is because we had another development and obviously was not exactly the same, but the turnaround area was before the last unit or units. Yep. And so the concern was obviously for a delivery vehicle that's not there,
we'll say every day, they pull in and they don't know, oh, by the way, turn here. as opposed to driving to the end. And then like I said, if all the driveways are fully parked, somebody's going to have to back up, right? Which
uh Mr. Santos, quick question. Have you looked at the abuing property and that development project and where their leeching field is in comparison to what you have here? I will. You can say no if you don't know, but I I actually looked at it very quickly yesterday. I didn't memorize it, but
it's I'm just This is the entrance. This would be like what I'll call the hockey stick part of it, right? And then it opens up back here. It's It's way down yonder down here to the east side. It'll be from a groundwater migration perspective. Are they downgrading?
It's downgrading. Downgrade. Yeah. Yes. Okay. Madam Chair, may I ask one of Mr. Santos, you know, back in Neolithic times when I sat where you are, hammerheads were the thing they got away with. They they said, "No more
hammerheads," which is basically what these things are. We want culde-sacs. From an engineering perspective, why are hammerhead turnarounds now back in vogue again and appropriate? I there it's in the planning board
approval right now. I can design a hammerhead turnaround. It's in the planning boards. Yes. So, okay, that's all I need to say. So, they they haven't done away with that. That's fine. They're the ones that said about this project that they want the turnaround on there.
Well, maybe they didn't understand that that the fire truck could turn around. No, they Well, they had we'll address all that. That's not a problem. Thank you, Nick. You all sat down there. Anybody have any followup before we go
to the public tonight? What's your Everybody's okay. Anybody from the public want to speak on this? Come on up. We just need your name and address, please. John Roger Augusta, 522 Old Meeting House Road. I have bought this property on the west end of this property in the
east end of my on the west end of my property, east end of this property by 173 feet. I'd also like to say that the economic liability of this project is not a community concern. Why no basements in this property to alleviate some of the storage problem?
You're digging. You're going to have a crawl space. Why don't you dig another five or six feet, put a cement floor, put a wall under where the garage is going to be, but that that won't be that'll be a solid garage. You can probably have a 15 or 16 foot wide by 20
foot or 24 foot basement. The size of the the density of the project is ridiculous. on the side of the property on the east side of this property. What type of agriculture plantings is it going to have? I'm only got like 15 or 20 feet between the building and my property
line. That's nothing. There's going to be kids running all over the place. Like to see some a big hedge. I have a big hedge there now. Would like to see some plantings, maybe some trees. We kind of cut down every single tree that's on the on the east side of this property. There's big beautiful pines that have
been there a long time. I'd like to have some of them stay. May I ask a question about sheds? I heard that sheds can be allowed on this property. No, no, no sheds. Okay. So, so there's no storage at all in sheds. There's so much um density of the
dwellings that be no room for sheds. I was going to ask the size of sheds allowed, but there are going to be no sheds. You can ask a crazy question about rental rates on this property. I heard the madam chair said she heard one figure and then another figure was proposed. Yeah.
May you ask what it might be? The rental rates. Yes. The I got them right here somewhere. Hold on. Let me find them. I think the onebedroom was 1,8.85 and the threebedroom was 3,281 if I have that right.
The market rate ones. Yeah. I had the twobedroom um 1,200 ft² 3200. Okay, this is market. This is market. The other market, the 3bedroom, 1750 in square footage is 4,200
market. The affordables 2bedroom 1,200 ft² 2500 and the 3bedroom 1350 ft is 3500. That's the expensive. I heard Madam Chair mention about trucks. I live approximately 8 to 900 ft
from Sandwich Road to my property. From about 6:00 to 6:30 in the morning till 3:00 to 3:30 in the afternoon, there are numerous trucks that have exhaust brakes called Jake brakes. Yep. Once they're put on going down that hill, you would not believe the noise.
People living in these units on Sandwich Road and even all the way through are going to hear some unbelievable noise all day long. Breaking before they go to Tommy. Yeah. to go to Thomas Landers. There's there's probably I'm going to guess 25 to 30 to 40 trucks
a day using Jake brakes on that hill. Yep. The noise is going to be unbelievable to the tenants living in these properties. I guess that's all I have to say, but I think the density is absolutely ridiculous for the where this property is located on Sandwich Road.
Thank you, sir. Anybody else want to come up? Come on up. You're on your own. I am Susan Augusta, 522 Old Meeting House Road. As my husband mentioned, we live on the east side of the um
property. Um, directly adjacent to that property line is we have a very large barn and we also have a um, paddic where we've had in the past as our children were growing up many animals of all types um, horses, goats, the whole
rammit of types of animals. As we are preparing to downsize, I fully am aware of our children who may come to this property and have
those animals again with the turnout etc. Um I don't want to be restricted in that we are agricultural zone but it is in very close proximity to those end buildings. Uh let's see. I I'm appearing here
tonight as an individual, but I'm a 30-year member of the Felma School Committee. And what is really scaring me about that sandwich road situation with uh school bus stops, it's a scary situation if there's a lot of kids in this development.
Um particularly when the development goes in next door that's currently planned. Uh those two entrances are just beyond the curve in the northbound lane of Sandwich Road. Yep. With no visibility, people will be
coming around that curve and if a school bus has to stop there, it's a major concern. Yeah, you are right. Good evening. My name is Valerie Harding. I live at 540 Old Meeting House next to the Augustus.
I've lived there for 50 years. I've lived in Felmouth my whole life. Progress we cannot stop. But my concern is when I first moved out to Hatcheville, we fought very, very hard in the early 1980s for the agriculture
zoning that we have today. At that time, we did not have any agriculture zoning, not even down to Tony Andrews farm. That was very important to all of us who lived there. I'm sure it was one of the reasons the Augustus moved there. It was one of the reasons we moved there. and a
lot of people still have chickens, things like that. We enjoy the agriculture lifestyle. So, uh, I hope the board would take into consideration how hard we fought for that designation. And when you put in
this kind of density, which is way too much for our area, as everyone has said, it's down the road, it's going to diminish everything we fought for. My other concern is also the traffic.
When you come out of Thomas Landers Road and you turn left to go up towards the old meeting house, it's a hill. You have to push the accelerator. We've all that live out there have seen plenty of people push the accelerator
really hard to get up that hill. And when they round that curve, they will not be able to stop easily for all those cars, not even the school bus, all the cars coming out of that road. When you add in what is proposed, 50 units, 36
units, 86 units that have two cars each, probably, we're talking 160 vehicles coming out of those two entrances onto Sandwich Road. That curve on Sandwich Road was changed
about 50 years ago when one of the selectmen in Falmouth died on that corner right in front of the old meeting house. So, it's a very bad curve and I hope you will consider the traffic concerns there. Most people who turn in
on carriage shop road, carriage shop road can be difficult, but people are very aware of it. We see a lot of people who will wave you in and wave you out, but we see a lot of people who don't. I live at the fork of carriage shop and
old meeting house and people coming in off Sandwich Road are driving especially when they're probably at the end of a long commute which I get and they're it's 5 in the afternoon and they are driving as fast as they can and they do
not slow down and I cannot see people slowing down on this curve. It's It's pretty dangerous. So, and then my question for you is so we are in safe harbor now? Yes. And so we're not this are you calling
this a 40B because that's what the application says. Yes. Okay. But but I guess I want you to clarify for me. 40B I thought meant we had to go through with this because of the state. We do not want you to reach safe harbor.
Okay. So if we're in safe harbor now, we don't the town does not have to allow a 40B. Correct. So that's why we're here. Yep. Explain the lip part of it, but the select board has endorsed. The select board did endorse this. They want this. Yeah,
they want this because they want more. I'm sorry, Madam Chair. Go for sure. They want it because they need more. We need more affordable housing. I think everybody agrees we need more affordable housing but not this dense and it is a beautiful uh
proposal. Means crossing is nicel lookinging but um you know there's there's not 36 units over there and so that's my problem with it. You know, I mean, I think there's been a lot of research done on it, but I don't think this is the right spot for that many
units because it's still a country area. Pretty soon, it won't be if we let all this go through. Thank you. Thanks. Anybody else want to come up? Come on up, Richard. Good evening. Richard Johnson, one
Ambitz Avenue. I'm a landscape architect and I have a couple of comments on the landscaping plan. Um, I noticed the street trees don't extend into that last bit of road where the uh last four units are. I would be
interested in having the street trees continue for for that. One thing that is um unfortunate I find is that the whole most of the southern property line is a sidewalk and a split rail fence with no landscape buffer to the adjacent parcel.
So any landscaping is pushed onto the adjacent parcel. I think if if that could be uh improved, it would be a benefit. And lastly, the village green has no u trees around the perimeter
where uh that might be appropriate in the concept of a village green as we have here in Felmouth. So adding a few trees where the septic system allows in there would be uh a welcome change from my point of view. Thank you. They have a large
tree line in the next development. I think I pretty much got it. I think some some shrubs along that line might be welcome to. They're pretty they look like it's going to grow right together, but you may not approve that. Thank you. Thanks.
The next proposed development south property. Yes. Hi Diana Moda Eastmouth. Um, I'm just up here because uh, first of all, this is Saxon Partners and we know what kind of
a show they Saxon. This is Northland. This isn't Saxon. This is who? Northland. North Link. And who are they affiliated to? Do you know if Northink have any connections with anybody? Any other LLC's? Oh, well, we've done projects in town. Okay. And they're not
But this is like way too much. I mean, do we even have people that are going to need all this housing? And then why can't you guys just extend it to the back instead of Don't roll your eyes at me because I live here and I pay taxes. Ma'am, so extend the road. We're going to be respectful. Please.
Well, tell him to stop rolling his eyes at me. You're not Please. Well, you have to address the board. Through the chair. Through the chair. You don't want it. And it's just it's a nightmare and we're not going to get it. You're not going to get it. That's it. Anybody else? Come on up, sir.
Good evening. My name is Bill Dumar. I live at 850 Carrot Shop Road. I've been a butter to this property for 44 years. So, I've seen it obviously develop over the years when Dick Elliott is the one who first developed it. And as many people have said tonight, I think the
density is just way out of whack. Way out of whack. I understand affordable housing. We do need affordable housing um without a doubt. But I think that the number of units that in that are in there for the small uh area is just too
much. My other question would be is that my concern is as being in a butter to the property and my daughter's in a butter because we split up our property so she could build a house to be affordable to live here um at that point
uh and 10 years ago now. And what stipulations or what the person who builds this, what what prevents them from someone paying the rent for a year and then just renting it out to people
for the summer every week? What is going to prevent that from happening? So for through you, Madam Chairman, as to affordable units, there are specific deed restrictions and there's a monitoring agent, but that's not all the units that are here. As to market rate units, it's one of the questions that I asked the
applicant about in terms of conditions that would say, "Okay, this needs to be year- round rentals." It's something that we can certainly address. Okay. So, would that be a stipulation should this project go forward? It could be. It could. I would hope so. Um I mean, as
you know, as an abuter, and I'm sure all the other abutters, it can be a problem. Oh, yeah. I mean, without a doubt. So, but again, you know, I just think it's way too many units for the space you're talking about. And the traffic, I hear it all the time. And we even have more traffic
now because of the fire department. We hear them all the time now going out, going out, going out. And uh, as Roger stated, as a, you know, who's a person who is retired now, I hear those breaks constantly, constantly, constantly, without a doubt.
So, thank you. Okay. Thank you. Anybody else from the public? Okay. How you doing? Thank you for uh letting me speak. My name is Mike Lima. I live at 791 Sandwich Road just south of this and the next development there, the uh
50 units. Um I think I'm just going to echo my neighbors and some of the things they said. Uh we bought the land and and built there 26 years ago. Uh the main reason being the agricultural space getting away from thickly settled area. I grew up in Felmouth in the Marav Vista
area. I think these projects are going to you know kind of dwarf that type of area. It's really going to be uh you know a lot uh and the traffic is a nightmare and I just wonder with all the extra traffic you know from two driveways or two roads coming out at
Sandwich Road there. I've heard the accidents, seen the accidents there all the time, and this is just going to add more to that. So, that's all I have. Thank you. Great. Thank you. Anybody else? Come on up.
Can you hear me? Okay. Yes. My name is Gina Fry. I live at 77 Sandwich Road. I'm lovely neighbors with them. We just speak up a little bit for me. Thank you. Um so I I just want to amplify the um planning board's referral and ask and
request respectfully that those conditions get resolved and I think you've already um mentioned that but I think they capsulate everyone's concerns the the density. Um one question I had though was um are there trash cans where
did there's no shed possible or maybe there is a shed but where do people put their trash? trash will be private in a development like this. We the town doesn't plow and the town doesn't pick up trash. I was going to ask that question. That question will get asked along the way. Yeah, cuz I was, you know, when we we
look at this, I mean, the setback and the busy road and the air brakes are are absolutely not a great quality of life. And then now you're going to add even more traffic. So, I don't want to be redundant, but when we just think about um kids, um it wasn't also clear it's
fenced in, but is it a chainlink fence that's going all around? Post and rail. Post and rail was this. Yeah. But in terms of children being able to run close, you know, 35 ft. That's not far. Um thank you for bringing up the sidewalks. That was the other thing that
I was concerned about. I mean, I think it's just um uh the you know, just the math of it is it's too dense. Um and also you've you've mentioned this too, the Hatch Road, that triangle there across from
the Jewish temple as well as and then this the second um development coming through. It it just seems that at this form right now, it just doesn't seem like it's a good idea. So, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Anybody else? Anybody have any further questions up here? No, but I'd just like to comment to the people in the audience that uh I mean you have your concerns and it would be best if you followed this and came every
week and don't get them lost in the uh shuffle. U represent yourselves. So, will you be talking about this next week? I was going to ask Norin when our next meeting is. No, it won't be next week. We'll announce it before. We'll announce it at the end. Oh, okay.
And like I said, I suggest if you have great concerns, you show up. So, with our upcoming schedule as set, um the first opportunity would be October 30th or November 13th.
for possible continuences. October 30 or November 13. Yeah. How long do does Northland anticipate doing their homework? Well, I think I think I have um one question I would have it would be the referral to uh peer review and how long
it would take. Yeah, I assume you're going to you're going to do that. Yes. Um based on the conversation. Yeah, I'm I guess you know based on that um by the time we get a contract and you know it's obviously not a problem to send plans out because we could send those
electronically um but probably with the timing like in order to say have a peer come for our next meeting I would probably advocate for November 13th because it gives them time to schedule review
get us a right up ahead type of thing. I have a um I don't have a conflict, but our engineer does on that date. Okay. So, we'd like to come on not have that conflict. I'm sorry. A better date for you. Okay. So, um I mean, do you want to try
October 30 or do you think it's not worth it? because I'm thinking so we wouldn't be able to do anything before. Oh, what about the six? We only have one hearing that day. I'm just trying to be excuse me
realistic about expectations. Yeah. So, if you're going to send that out for review, I would like to get the comments at least two weeks ahead of the meeting, right? So that I can submit plans a week ahead of time and hopefully address the reviewer's
concerns, all the referrals concerns, and then when we come back, we have a much shorter list to talk about. So maybe I just don't want to waste your time, my time, the abut's time. Right. Yeah. So maybe something next week like November
20. I mean if you were looking to like work with somebody offline, I'm I'm fine. I've done with that on other projects, so it's not a big deal to me. I always copy you in on the floor. Okay. 20 that
20 works for everybody here. Okay. Motion. Thank you. You want a motion to continue to the 20th for you? Yeah. Yeah. And we're all set to continue. Norin, you're all set. One sec. So I back to wherever it was. Okay.
All right. Go ahead. Motion to continue to November 20th. Second. We have a motion in a second to continue. Are you all set for the evening? Mr. Santos, you're you're good. We're all good up here. Yeah. We have a motion in a second to continue to
What was it again? November 20. November 20 at six. Fine. All those in favor? I oppose. None. Thank you all for coming out and thank you all for your presentation. Thank you. Thank you. You guys very hard.
Thank you. We get paid really well. We won't spend it all in one place. Can't spend zero. Yeah. Good night, guys. Thank you. Good night. Yeah, I believe.
[Music] All right. That went well. What else you got on our list? Back to my uh I have to like continue. All right. We have Let's put the glasses back on.
What's open meeting September 18th? Minutes, I'm guessing. Does that mean minutes? They're not ready yet. Okay. Not ready yet. Okay. Board discussion. Did we pick a day yet in November? We did not. Oh, she was going to send us out some dates.
Yeah, we have. Remind her to send us out some dates. Isn't that what was going to happen? That's what's going to happen. Yeah. Um cuz we really got to do one before the end of the year. I mean, we can all wait for Nick's baby, though. Oh, maybe you can bring
You can bring You can bring them in. Baby's name ZBA. the ZBA baby. Yeah. Yeah. We'll call them Z for short. Um board updates. And future agenda items. Yeah, just send out those dates. That's what we need.
Thank you. Our next hearing is October 2nd at 6 p.m. Mark. Yay. Motion to adjurnn. Second. Motion to journ. All those in favor? I oppose? None. Great.
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