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Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=GTRR1VqJajQ

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[music] [music] [music] Folks, we have to go into executive session. You want to first >> announce that we're >> tell them that you're the board of appeals. >> We are we are the zoning board of appeals. >> Sorry. And we are going into executive session

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>> and um >> so [clears throat] madam chairman after preliminary determination that executive session is necessary. I move that we the board go into executive session pursuant to general laws chapter 3A section 21 A3 to discuss strategy with respect to litigation in the matter of 163 Bay

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Road. uh where discussion would have a detrimental impact in the town's uh litigation position and we will return to regular open meeting at the conclusion of the executive session. >> I'll second. >> We have a motion in a second. It's a roll call. >> Peterson I.

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>> Dury I. >> Murphy I. >> Morsai. >> Patruchi I. >> So can you all please leave us to our executive session? We won't be long. We promise. You'll appreciate the air when you come

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back in. All right. Welcome to the zoning board of appeals. Please silence all cell phones and note that this meeting is being taped by FCTV. If there's any private party recording this hearing, step up to the podium to request permission. I'll introduce the board and

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staff. To my far right is Mark Finan, and to his left is Scott Peterson. To my right is Frank Duffy, the clerk. I'm Suzanne Murphy, the chair. To my left is James Moss, vice chair, and then we have Tony Pati, an associate. We have Noren Stockman, our zoning administrator. Ashley Dlo, office assistant, and George

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Puchi, special counsel. The zoning board of appeals is charged with applying the state zoning statutes as well as the town zoning bylaws and reviewing and voting on applications. All decisions are made through the public hearing process. Our goal is to hear testimony from the applicants and the public and

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to allow a full and fair discussion of the project but prior to closing the hearing process and reaching a decision. Number one, to begin each hearing, the clerk will read the public announcement for the hearing and read pertinent information from the file. Two, the applicants or applicants representative will then have 15 minutes

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to make a presentation, but time may be extended by a vote of the board. Three, the board will then question the applicant. Four, the public will then be invited to comment. Comment should be limited to two minutes and be strictly related to the proposal. All members of the public wishing to speak should wait

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to be recognized by the chair should come to the podium, state your name and address for the record, speak into the mic. It will not amplify your voice and record audio for FCTV viewers. And before we take the first hearing, there's a time if you want to make a public comment of anything that's not on

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our agenda, you're welcome to come up. Anybody? And so we'll start. We have a continuation of 05925 Falmouth Residential LLC 809 Sandwich Road. Yeah.

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>> Who can ask? Couldn't mess me up. >> Yeah. >> Hello. Uh for the record, my name is Brandon Barry with Merill Engineers and Land Surveyors, the civil engineers for the project. um based off discussions we've had with town staff and at the end of our last hearing with the board uh

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we're going to focus on the wastewater and storm water systems on the site. So I'll give a brief overview of the wastewater system uh and then I can do the storm water system if the board would prefer after I finish discussing the wastewater systems on site. I can pause for questions at that point or just do it all at once and get questions

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at the end. Um, from a wastewater perspective, we are proposing a on-site wastewater treatment system uh that has been designed for Title 5 and local requirements uh based off the unit mix and bedroom count. Our system has been designed for 9,000 uh gallons per day.

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So, we are not tripping the 10,000galon trigger that would put us into a state water quality or groundwater discharge permit. So, this will all just be reviewed and approved locally. Um, within the main driveway, there is a sewer main uh that all the houses have gravity connections into. um that goes

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to a manhole just about at the center of the site uh that I'm hovering over here. Um that manhole then again via gravity uh connects to a 20,000galon septic tank uh where waste water will be settled and stored and then it goes through a series of six tanks that are part of the

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ditrification system. Um we are using a denitrification system that is on the D approved IIA list uh and is also one that has been approved by the board of health for youth in the town of use in the town of Falmouth. Uh after the denitrification system, there will be a pump chamber um that will pump the

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effluent into the wastewater disposal system. Uh we are doing a pressure dose system to disperse it based off the amount of flow. As I mentioned, our plans will be submitted to the board of health for their final review and signoff after we complete the zoning process. Uh and there is no state permitting that is

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required at this point in time. Um that's our our summary of wastewater. Like I said, I could pause for questions if there are any on the system here or I could get into a quick one for you. Why isn't that dated? >> This plan here? >> Yeah, >> not updated. There's no update.

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>> Um, there's a date. These are the plans from um 1211 still. We have not updated the utility plans at this point in time. >> Oh, I have a new plan here that's not dated. >> We have a revised layout plan that was submitted more as an exhibit. It's not the full set of plans. I think we had

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mentioned we were holding to get all comments and concerns addressed before we issued a fully revised set of plans. surprised we got this because you had said to me we're not going to get one till the 30th and >> it so part of I can touch on that part of that is is there's been a lot of discussion on the layout before we go

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make a layout change ourselves and then update our entire plan set with something that the board did not fully agree with. We thought it would be beneficial to provide at least the layout at this point in time with a summary of some of the changes and if we get approval on that or some minor comments we could then get a full revised set of plans that will have an updated revision date.

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>> Okay, that makes sense. Thanks. Uh, >> which wastewater system is that? >> Uh, we've designed this one for the nitro. Uh, I believe that's what we intend to use. If there was any changes, we'll have an updated system. Not nothing with the gravity connections to it or what we're proposing for pressure

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dosing, but maybe the configuration of the chambers or tanks may be changed. If we were to change it, we would use something that's on the mass D approved list. >> Tony, you have any questions? >> No, everybody's all set. We're good on waste water.

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>> Okay. Um, from a storm water perspective, we've designed a storm water system consisting of deep sump, putting catch basins, uh, drainage manholes, a few proprietary water quality treatment units, and then a series of underground infiltration chambers. Um, we are handling the storm water from our site on site. Uh, there's

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very little leaving. Most of what we've modeled as leaving is is adjacent areas to our site that are going offsite. Uh we even have our large infiltration system in the back has been a size to accommodate some off-site flow that's coming into our our property. Um the roofs for all of the buildings will have their

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>> Where's that coming from? >> Um up in this uh the north east corner of the site uh the site grades >> elevation's higher. >> H >> the elevation >> elevation's higher. So storm water will naturally run off. Um so instead of just ignoring that and hoping our systems would work, that is accounted for in our

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drainage models >> and go somewhere. >> Yep. Exactly. onyard land. >> Um so all the roofs for the buildings will have gutters and roof drains. Uh there's a series of underground infiltration systems that are just for the roof systems. Those don't have any pre-treatment associated with them because it's just roof rough roof runoff

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going to them. Um storm water collected from the pavement and parking areas and driveways will go through those deep sump and hooded catch basins and then before getting to the large infiltration system in the northeast will go through um one of two water quality units. So, they'll be provided treatment to meet um

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water quality requirements and TSS removal. Um there's also an infiltration system in the uh grass area to the south of the site um that's collecting runoff from behind the units. Uh and within that grass area, we have an inlet unit connected or an inlet water quality unit. So, that will receive treatment

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before discharging into that as well. Uh none of our systems have outlets. They've been modeled to hold the storm water runoff that's anticipated and drains within the 72 hours that's required. Uh our system uh meets D standards. It has been submitted to review by the town's review consultant CI. We went through a series of

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revisions with them uh and ultimately got a letter back in January saying that we've addressed all of their comments. Um I do know um so as far as we know the system is is approved. There will be some minor changes with the layout. Uh but ultimately that layout revisions and

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removing some of the walkways reduced impervious coverage by a couple thousand square feet. So, we would anticipate our systems more than adequately sized for that, but we'll review it when we finalize our plans based off the layout revisions we provided. >> Everybody good on that?

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>> Quick question. Just I'm sorry. I apologize if I did not hear you. What uh system are you using for the collection? >> You didn't say >> for the infiltration the what units are we using for >> underground? The simplest way to put it what what are you putting underground?

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>> Yep. Give me one second. Pull those up. I forget just offh hand. So I can show you the detail. >> I mean, if if everybody's approving it, who has to approve a D, the town, all of that. I'm just curious about >> So the infiltration chambers um are a plastic chamber. They're specifically

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the MC7 or 7200s. They're just a plastic chamber and a bed of stone uh that will collect the storm water and then infiltrate. >> Oh, pretty standard that Yeah, it's standard. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. You're >> welcome. >> Anybody else have any questions? >> No. M president,

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>> what else were we doing besides storm water? I forgot. >> Those were the the main two items that we that we were preparing to discuss tonight that were kind of our topics that we wanted to collect comments on. If there was any other, you know, items from previous hearings that you wanted any updates or had questions about um concern

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>> Well, I had some questions from the new kind of plan. >> Okay. Yep. >> Um where is is that I don't know if you want to put up the the new the one that's moved >> right here. Can you show me where the pavilion is? Is that that little box on road?

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>> Yeah. Okay. >> So, the pavilion to get the units um compliant with the front set back, which they're all beyond 35 ft. So, we are compliant with that front set back. The units themselves shifted back as well as that the access roads going to those ones at the front. Um so, you can see in the area uh that I'm hovering over here,

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and I can zoom in so it's a little bit clearer. Um where the pavilion previously was, the road the sidewalks are a little bit closer. So, there's really not that room for the pavilion. Um, as we reviewed it and consider the comments that we had received from the board, one of the primary functions of that pavilion would likely be a bus stop

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area uh for when it's raining out. And we thought that having it here and then when the bus comes, the kids need to walk, you know, 50 60 ft through the rain to Sandwich Road um didn't really serve that purpose. So, in revising the layout, we went with a slightly smaller um covered bus stop, as you will to be

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10 by 8. We moved it a little bit closer to Sandwich Road. So, you know, they can stay there. There's about 15 ft from the edge of that um to the right of what or to the pavement area. It's completely within our property, but it's more convenient uh for children to use that for congregating for the bus.

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>> And you expect the parents to park in that old parking spot that was where the old pavilion was? >> We'll have the parking spaces there. I would imagine most of, you know, parents in any of the front units would likely just walk their children up. um other ones that are coming from the rear. There are the four spaces right on the

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access road. Um and then there's three more across the way and then two more on the road. So in relative convenience to that bus area, we have about nine spaces. >> Okay. >> Eight. >> Is mail going there too? >> Mail is not going to be there. I believe we're going to have a series of mail post uh or

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>> no just one large one for all these. >> Um I believe it'll be u that pad that we have near the accessible spaces. You can kind of see the concrete bumps out there. Yep. That's where you're anticipating mail would be. One central location makes the post office life a little bit easier and people can swing in to grab their mail. >> Get your mail when you're getting rid of

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the kids. Exactly. >> Sounds like a plan. >> Um, okay. That's all I have for now. I don't know if anybody else has questions for tonight. You want to start off? >> I don't have questions. I appreciate uh this synopsis you put together. Uh,

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whoever did that. Uh, that's very, very helpful to this board to me. I'll speak for myself only. Um, I absolutely understand no attic. I know it can be done, but I understand why and why the garages will be used

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instead. Uh, so I have no issue with that any longer from my perspective. Uh, I appreciate the attention to Doc Sky compliant light fixtures. So, at this point, I really have no more questions at this point. So, thank you

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very much. >> Welcome, >> Jim. Again, I'll echo thank you for the uh it's nice to see just tracking that you're actually addressing these and when uh thank you for the agreement that uh you're not going to permit or prohibition against short-term rentals in these units. Uh I don't have any other additional

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questions at this point subject to public comment. Thank you. >> What's the height of the buildings? >> That's one thing I couldn't find. >> I don't know offhand. I know they are compliant with the heights requirement. Um I can make sure that we get an answer

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for that. I don't want to provide answ. >> Mhm. >> Um Frank, you have any questions? >> Not Scott. >> Uh could you just go through your your green highlighted box? Because I think to echo some of the other members of the

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board, it it was nice to see that you had moved forward with closing out some of the open items. So yeah, >> that that was a good little cheat sheet for lack of >> a the green box is just kind of highlighting some of the changes that we've incorporated into this plan based off of feedback. So I already touched on

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one which is really the biggest one is that all the units have moved back to [clears throat] be compliant with that 35 ft setback. We've also there was a large discussion on snow storage at some of our hearings. We've highlighted some of the areas that we have for snow storage here. Uh we think we have pretty adequate snow storage that doesn't interfere with the hydrants, uh parking

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spaces, pedestrian access. We've tried to keep it out of those areas, but highlighted some some ample areas that we can on the site. Um, other things we would highlight on this plan, uh, there was comments from both Beiel [clears throat] and Thomas and at our original hearing relative to fire hydrant locations. We reconvene with the fire department, uh, and the new chief

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to review those and they provided us markups for where they would like them. So, they've we are actually providing three hydrants now. one close to the intersection of these roads. Um, one on the opposite side of the road at their request, central to the site, and then one at the intersection. Um, so the one

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in the center of the site's pretty similar to where it was. The one at the intersection has been moved from the end. Uh, so it's more conveniently located. They can just stop in that intersection. They don't have to get all the way to the end of the road. And then that third one at the front of the site as well. Um, another thing that happened, um, we touched base on the

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pavilion shifting and going being replaced by the covered bus stop. Um, we've highlighted some of the accessible ramps that will be required throughout. So, there'll be accessible ramps at our accessible parking spaces and where our concrete walk um crosses the driveway. Not all the individual driveways, but the drive aisle coming down to the

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houses to the south. Um, additionally, some there was some butter feedback relative to the pet park. We moved the pet park almost 15 or so feet further into the site um so they get a give us a larger area to do some plantings for buffering there. We've also highlighted where the limits of trees will be. So,

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we are not clearing all the way to our property line. There's about 8 to 10 ft from the property line where we'll maintain tree cover um as we can. Uh the storm water systems going in there. So, that's why we do need to do some removal in that area. Um Bees and Thomas had made a comment relative to some of the walkways uh being inconsistent providing

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access to the rear. We've just done away with those rear walkways that were just kind of circling around the area to the south. It's just more of just an open green now instead of having walkways um kind of roping it in. Um, and then it change. It doesn't have any questions about what units have what type of access. So now they all kind of have

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just a backyard feel coming off of their units. Um, I think those handle um the changes that we've incorporated into this plan. Um, there will be some minor changes to the grading. We'll reook at the drainage to make sure it works. But like I said, um,

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this actually reduced our overall impervious coverage by I think it's 5 to 6,000 square feet. So a pretty good change there. It gets us closer to the um, the 40% requirement. um and shouldn't have any impact on our storm water systems. But as we update our full plans, again, pending any comments from the board on this layout, we'll make

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sure to look at all those things. >> I appreciate that. Thank you. >> Right. >> Um before you fine, >> I I'll just keep my comments to myself at the moment. Um I I

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I'm good for the moment. >> You have a deadend water mane showing here. Um, how are you going to prevent the people in the last four uh units from getting stale water? >> Um, that's something that we'll certainly look at when we work with the

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water department on connecting to it and review with our our MEP engineers. >> Good pick. >> That should be looped even if it's with something small. >> Isn't Isn't deadend pipe I mean it's not the best thing to have. I mean, shouldn't you be looping it back the other way? >> It should be looped back because

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otherwise the water stagnates right in front of those houses and they'll be drinking. >> Marav Vista's that way. I don't hope so. Marav Vista, >> I mean, otherwise you're going to have to have a regular flush the uh hydrant outd look at our options for looping the water system as we revisit the plans.

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>> Good pickup. >> You all set? >> Yeah. Can I ask the dimensions of the of the decks and the porches? >> Um, I will note that. Um, don't have it. >> Don't have them off the top of your head. >> No. >> And then do you know, you might not know either. I'd like to see since the only

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storage these people have is a garage. What's inside for closet since I I don't have a clue on that either. >> We can certainly bring that. I think um our understanding was is the hearing two weeks from now was going to focus on >> architecture and landscaping.

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Uh we'll note decks and porch layouts uh and closets and other interior space layouts. >> I'm just worried about I mean you're gearing it for kids, >> but there's no I mean their bikes are going to, you know, scratch down the side of their car, you know, in the garage and um Christmas trees are going to be in the garage, I guess, and

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luggage and everything is going to be in the garage. So, I was wondering how many other places there are for anything. So, that's all I had. Anybody else have any question? Go ahead, John. >> I I hate to keep going back to this retaining wall thing. I know it's a pain in the neck to keep asking this

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question, but [clears throat] a little experience with this thing. I continue because I don't know what the grades are on the other side on the butter side. >> Mhm. It appears that the grades and this is a very small plan so excuse me about

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that about being able to read these. It appears that the grade continues to rise towards that retaining wall. Am I correct >> from their side of the site >> from go behind uh duplex number five and number four and if I look again it's

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very small it appears that the grades they increase slightly as you go towards the wall. So this is this is our existing conditions. Um just so we can kind of see what the you can see the grades a little bit clearer. These are the existing grades that we're looking at. So um we're at 62 through some of

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the post and rail fencing that they have and then it drains or comes down at the property line. It's 54. So it actually from our property it drains down and then continues to do so off property. Uh then I will flip back to uh our grading plan. Um so you can see where

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essentially that 62 elevation that was you know in the center of the site here. We're essentially holding that through the houses. So that's about our top of wall and then the bottom of wall is matching that 54 that was there before. So we're going to meet the grades that are there existing at the property line within our property line and then the

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wall will raise up above it to keep our site higher where >> how far above the grade is that wall going to be? >> Um it'll be about 7 ft 7 and 1/2 ft. >> So it's an engineered wall but uh no how far above the grade on this side or will it be with the level? >> It'll be it'll be with the grade. That's

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really >> So, let me just >> So, there's an eight foot drop off. >> Seven, seven and a half. Yes, >> we do. We are calling for there to be a fence at the top of that wall. Uh, along the sides of it, it will come down to the only one. >> I Let me just finish this part of the

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wall. >> What side of the wall is going to be showing at how many feet? >> The looking from the abuing property into our site, you will look at the face of the wall. How are you going to How many feet away from the Butters lot line

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approximately? >> The wall is about 2 and 1/2 ft from the property line. >> How are you not how can you assure this board that you're not going to affect the abutter's property when you do this? Because that's that's that's nothing when it comes to something this high and

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this much work. You're going to be all over that property uh in some way or another. I mean, how are you going to how are you going to prevent that? So when I've seen segmental block walls like this one get built or >> I have too. >> And so you know there will we'll clear the area up to our property line. We

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will prepare the site which will essentially match the grades that are there today. Um they will excavate down about 6 in or so to set that first course of blocks. Those blocks will be about a foot and a half exposed. They will then back fill behind that then set the next course. So all of that work is

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going to be done on our side of the wall building up from the back of it. So after that initial clearing and that first row of blocks are done, all of the work will just be within, you know, will be behind that wall and then continuing to move back as it batters itself. >> Now I understand how these are built. I >> Yep. [snorts]

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>> So everything is done from your side of the property >> back side. >> All right. The folks that live uh be on the other side are going to be looking at a very high concrete wall um to do this. And um

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are you prepared to offer them any kind of buffer up against that concrete wall at which and let me let me start this way. The finished side of this I have no idea which company you're buying the block from. You probably don't either, but >> Yep. >> Right. So you have a finished side and

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an unfinished side. The unfinished side is going to be on your side. >> Buried. Yes. >> The unfinished side will be on our side. >> Yeah. Buried. And so you'll have some kind of whatever the finish is, whoever's manufacturing these on that side, it's going to be very very So

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we're talking, you know, well, not quite that tall. We're talking pretty tall. So somebody's going to come walking into the yard and look at that. I mean, are you prepared to offer any kind of small at least landscape buffer up against that to soften that look? That's very industrial looking.

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>> I mean, I It's done all the time, but it there's nothing special about it, but that's pretty high. Yeah, I think so. The the property that we're abuing is is off of Carage Road. Uh so this is a a bad area. I actually >> I'm more worried about the people in that middle building are going to be

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looking at that wall. >> Believe me, this is this is not the best situation for the people on that side >> on the butter side. >> So the wall is here are those fencings that we saw in that existing conditions plan. So the wall is approximately where I'm dragging my mouse here. um you know

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up against this tree line we'll clear the ones on our site but the property that we're abuing is 860 here. So while yes that is a facing oh >> you're talking about the distance is far away. >> Yeah. So while we're abudding their rear property line we're right up against it. The actual where the neighbor lives is

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you know is far away. There's already a natural tree buffer there. I I just I don't if this is approved I don't want to see these people have to have a situation that's not appropriate from them. I

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suppose if there's that they'll have to speak I think if they're here they'll have to speak up to that because they have to understand that's a pretty high wall that's going to be there. The decorative side will be out towards them. Um I'm telling you right now this I've seen

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this done in town. I've seen how badly this can be botched by contractors and um there's nothing I can do about it, a zoning member or this board can do anything about it if you if you don't do

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this correctly, but somehow I I I wish we had a way of of of protecting these folks from this thing. But we don't. I mean, it's all up to the building inspector at that point in time, and the building inspector is going to have to watch this. Anyway, I I don't know what else to say about it. I don't like it, but I know I understand

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why it's there. >> So, the middle duplex is going to look at a 7 and 1/2 ft wall and then a fence on top. >> They will be the top of that wall when they look out their backyard. You if they're sitting on their porch here, they will see flat grade and then they will see just the top row of it. They

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will not >> How long is How tall is the fence on top of the >> um >> foot? I don't have a specific detail when the fence gets included in the wall design that normally gets specified by the wall designer because they have to make sure that it works with their blocks. >> The building code requires a certain height. So,

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>> yeah, >> exactly. >> All right. >> Um, so they will see the fence. They won't have a large exposed wall. Their their backyard will be about a foot above the top of that fence. It'll be a slight slope down and then there will be the top of the wall and the the fence. >> So, by the time you're standing on the

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fence going to be a minimum of 12 ft. >> Yeah. Whatever you do, don't fall off the wall the other way. >> Good place to back your back flips. >> My kids would be up there. >> Okay.

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>> I just have to say that um there's so many things in these the way this is running on these two on on parallel tracks. There's so many things that are actually linked and joined together and they're not being addressed. I think the way this works

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gives applicants an opportunity to slow walk things. Um, it's very uncomfortable the way we have to address these and I know it's been condensed by this safe harbor. That wasn't so safe. But anyway, I'm not liking much of this.

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[snorts] >> Say it. >> Yeah. Now, take a deep breath. Any other questions from up here before we go to the public? Um I have two for you. Uh can you reference the number of handicap parking spaces you have?

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>> Uh there's two handicap parking spaces >> for the entire development >> for in the public access. Yes. >> That doesn't sound like that's code compliant. Don't you have to have more through the development than two? >> Check.

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>> Okay. And then the other question I had for you was related to the bus shelter. I just want to make sure that the bus shelter's positioning doesn't impede uh drivers as they're exiting and having sighteline.

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>> Nope. Um the so the we have a fence along the front. Uh the bus shelter is actually peeled that fence back and was in the footprint of that and that fence was not an impediment to the sight distance triangles the traffic consultant looked at. Um when someone is

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parked looking to exit the site here um they'll be sitting in their car um you know a few feet back from this striped line and then looking out this way. So the bus is set back within our property. It's not in the right of way. So we we set it there both to be convenient but also not impact the sight distance

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triangles that uh the traffic consultant provided. >> And you there was also I think reference to a development sign. Do you know where that development sign would be? Uh there's a small development sign right at the corner of the concrete walk here. So just beyond the uh bus stop.

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>> Okay. >> Will you bring the uh calc of that? The height and all that. Is it going to have a light? >> I can confirm that. That's the landscape. >> Find out some details on that if you would. >> Go ahead. >> What's the the fence design along

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Sandwich Road? What is that? >> I thought they said post and rail. No, >> I think it was post and rail along sandwich road. >> Otherwise, it would impede the sight lines. >> Exactly. Okay. Thank you. >> Anybody else have anything else you can think of?

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>> Um I I just have to point out um maybe I'm incorrect, but everything you just said about the sight lines and the school bus um that could be affected by a development right next door, couldn't it? >> The sight lines. >> Yeah. Um, our sight lines are

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>> now the bus. The bus being there. >> The bus. How so? When the bus stops. >> Yeah. The sighteline of the next place down. >> Um, potentially, but when a bus is when a school >> I mean, these are things that I mean, I'm I'm sorry, but I mean I think that

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should be dealt with and and and we're um >> the bus is not coming into our the intent is not the bus to come into our site. It would stop in the road. >> I'm completely aware of what you said. >> Yeah. Um, >> and so the sight distance from a car leaving our site and being able to see >> the other site with the bus in the way.

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>> I can't speak to their sight distance. >> It's an unanswered that and again that just goes to my previous comment and I mean it's unfortunate that um we have to look at it this way in such a condensed window too but I mean whatever we're

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going to do the best that we can. Did the traffic gentleman that was in here, I don't remember his name, I apologize. Dan maybe. >> Um, did he do anything with Dosta Circle that he thought was only a driveway? >> Remember we were talking about that at

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the meeting? I don't know if >> I know it was asked. Um, I would have to check their response. I know when in their initial review from the peerreview consultant, they had sought that the roads that were included within the study were appropriate for what was given. So I don't know if they had updated it with DASA circle. I can

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re-review their response letter. >> Yeah, just give them an email. Maybe you can find out something for me for the next meeting would be good. >> Everybody else is all set? You all set? Norine George, you good? We'll take comments from the public.

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Come on up. Name and address, please. How are you? >> I'm fine, thank you. Valerie Harding, 540 Old Meeting House Road. >> So, I have a question for you, the board, where you just said it's a condensed window. Could you explain

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that? >> A condensed what? >> Window. >> Yeah. I mean, it's we're dealing with both of these at the same time. We're meeting um I mean other 40bs we've only had a meeting a month. We're doing two meetings a month with two. So I mean

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that that work the math works out to four. I mean, it's it's and and any question that's asked about this one is going to be a, you know, have have a direct bearing on the next one and go backwards. And I mean, if they were every other week, >> right, >> at at the very least, it would have been

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a better um but I'm sorry, that's just the way you know the the the rules and everything made it that way. But it's >> I understand that >> it's doesn't make it better. I just didn't know if it was something to do with the zoning board that I didn't understand. Since I am new to this,

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>> I would like to uh ask several questions. One is since there's such a focus on children, where are they going to play? In the street and um I see Mr. Dolly rolling his eyes. [laughter] I would like to say that I am pleased to

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see Mr. Dolly here because I think he's trying hard to make it a decent development. Unfortunately, all of us here feel like, you know, it's being jammed down our throat and we're trying to come to grips with it. I would like

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to ask Mr. Dolly, who is going to be the operator of the development? Who's going to be in charge of the people who come to rent? Is there going to be a manager? Is it going to be your company?

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>> Come on up. Good evening. My name is >> Good evening. >> Good evening. My name is Jack Dolly. I'm the president and CEO of Northland Residential Construction. If I understand the question, who is going to own and manage the property? >> Correct. >> Northland Residential is going to own

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and manage the property. We will be in charge of renting it, building it if appro approved. Uh we have an in-house uh construction company um that will build it. Um and then we will um our staff will manage the lease

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up releasing the third party lottery agent for the affordable units. That has to be a third party under reg state regulations. Um, and then the day-to-day property management of unit repairs, ground maintenance, snow plowing, trash

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removal, customer complaints, kids playing, leaving their bikes in the middle of the street, all the things that people do when they live, some of which is good, some of which are less good. And um, I rolled my eyes about kids

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playing in the street. I don't see kids playing in Sandwich Road. Um, we have a rather large green I don't know how to move this thing around. Um, uh, >> there's a little play area in the back.

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Yeah. >> Oh, yeah. We have a rather large, you know, this is going to be all lawn area out in here. I'm sorry, I don't know your first name. >> Valerie. >> Valerie, excuse me. Um Valerie, we have a very large, you know, this going to be basically, you know, a ball field, soccer field or whatever. You can do

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what you throw a baseball, kick a kick a ball, whatever you want. And then there's over on this side, I can't even read this. We have a play area over that answered the question. >> It does. Okay. >> Thank you.

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>> Are you all set, Mrs. Harding, or do you have a few more questions? Um well I just just a statement that I want to say thank you to Mr. Daly because I have felt and I think the other neighbors have also felt that we have

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not been given a first row seat to the plans that have been before us that will be affecting our properties which we have all worked very very hard. You know if you've driven down our street we all have nice properties. we've put a lot of hard work

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into. So, we are very concerned with something that we can't control because we all thought we had a good buffer in agriculture zoning which you are asking to have waved and so um it's very important to us h moving forward and I

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thank you for your answers. >> Thank you very much. Anybody else want to come up? Come on up, sir. >> [clears throat] >> John Roger Augusta, 522 Old Meeting House Road.

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If I could you could move this over, please. There's four duplexes that are bought my property >> on the east side. >> And what's the buffer zone between the uh gable [clears throat] end of the building and the lot line? That's say 15.8 ft.

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>> That's That's correct. >> That's from myself to the chairman. That's ridiculous. So, there's going to be no buffer zone. What's this line right here? That's some type of a buffer zone. That squiggly line, the same one that

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goes all the way around the east end of the property. >> That's the uh tree line that will be maintained along the property line. >> How big a tree line is it going to be? Three feet, maybe? Maybe two >> abruptly. Yes. >> That's ridiculous. >> Brendan, I thought you said that the one

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up by the uh dog park or whatever it is was going to be 10. >> Didn't you say that before? I wrote down 10. >> It's much larger than one. >> It is. One's bigger than the other. Yeah. >> Yeah. Um so we're matching approximately in there. We have to to make the grading

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work. We've set the tree line at the limits of grading that we need to to perform and construct the building. So >> is there some big trees back there? like big trees. >> It does get slightly closer um in the area that we're discussing now. Um and we have the grading we're doing does push it a little bit further out than what we were able to maintain near to

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the dog park. >> So all the big trees that are above that line are going to be taken down. >> Uh I don't have the location on all of them. If they're on the line or if they are on your property, they would not be impacted by >> my property, but right to the uh uh left

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side of my property, there's some great big trees there 70 80 feet tall. >> Mr. Augusta, you have to speak into the mic. I'm sorry. >> There's some trees that above my property that are 70 or 80 ft tall. >> I know. >> I guess we're all going to come down. >> There's not even a 16 ft buffer zone

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between my plot line and the building. >> That's ridiculous. >> That's all I have to say. >> I'm sorry, >> Madam Chair. It might be important to point out what our regular setbacks are in this town in this particular case. I

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agree that there should be a buffer. >> What would it be in the back? >> Be 10 feet on each side, 10 in the back. >> What I'm saying is I agree with Mr. August that there should be a buffer. This is a very large dense development, >> but our normal setbacks are actually

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less. Yeah, they're less than this. >> Just just for context, I agree with you, but just for context, that's what they are. But >> that's for a single family. >> Yeah, I I realize that's why I'm agreeing with Mr. Augusta. That should be a little bit more.

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>> Mr. Augusta's concerns and others surrounding could be addressed with a shared driveway. >> It's not going to happen. >> Does anybody else from the public want to give it a shot at the podium tonight?

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>> Valerie Harding, 540 Old Meeting House Road. I agree with Mr. Fineran, you have the two major contenders here. They could be discussing the shared driveway, which would solve a lot of problems. And

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uh it's time for maybe a little give and take that would help the neighbors as well and help the traffic as well. And it's a lot of the problems we've been discussing, especially the traffic. So, they could be out in the hallway talking after

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we're done. Thank you. Thank you, Miss Sarding. >> Everybody all set up here or >> I go ahead, John. >> I forgot to ask this question. Um, you sent in a flow test which I just saw today, the first time dated June 23rd.

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Could you just outline for all of us what this flow test tells us all right now? >> It's one of the things I was asking about and I forgot to ask you about. Um, I don't have the results of that in front of me. So, I'm going a little bit based off of memory, but >> Would you like it?

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>> Uh, I think I have the numbers for the most part. Um, that test the pressure available and then the flow that comes out of the hydrant. So, we work with the fire department to open a hydrant and see what the flow was. Um, I believe the pressure was 69 PSI um when they tested

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it at the at the one point and then there was,69 gallons per minute was the the flow coming out. >> The static was 64, the residual 62. Okay. >> And what is the uh standard requirement that is required by the code?

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>> Uh I would have to check with my MEP. >> Do you believe that this did at least meet that? >> Um will you need a boost station? >> When the testing company that did it did not indicate that they were concerned with the results. Like I said, we would pass that on to the MEP for the project

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to confirm. I know when they tested the uh flow for the new fire station, it was well beyond the parameters and I would have to think it would be similar and it's it's done by the amount of structures you hope to >> you know you know you need you need less

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water for one house than you do for >> 16. I mean it's all a calculation. So for the moment this board must is you intend this board to believe that this flow test that you put into the records

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is adequate at this moment. Otherwise you'd be telling us that it was not and what you'd be doing to boost that pressure. >> Correct. >> Okay. Thank you. I have a quick question on this thing that dated June 5th applicant response.

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I'm I don't know if it's on our end or your end, but I'm missing 28, 27, 28, 29, and some of 30. I don't Are all you guys missing it? >> Missing. >> You're missing. Yeah.

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>> I'm sorry, Madam Chair. Which one? >> On this one that says applicant response. I was missing some bullet points. 20 7 28 29 and some authority. just to if you could >> shoot Norine an email with it. That's all we'll confirm. >> There's a page missing there

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>> and a whole page. >> Well, it's the paragraph 4 and it jumps to paragraph 10. There's no >> You might want to review that. Do you want to take mine and review it? >> Do you have a copy? >> We have copies of it. Yeah. >> Just make sure we get it complete. >> Yep. >> Okay.

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Everybody's all set up here. You guys all set over there? George, you have anything? I'll take a motion to continue if anyone would like to. >> Oh, sure. Come on up. Name and address, please. >> Sorry, I thought you guys were all done down there.

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>> Sorry. >> Laura Inis, Canterbury Lane, Hatchfell. And I continue to be really concerned about the reszoning of agricultural land with what seems to be no consideration for

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how we can remedy that. I I I continue to disagree that there's nothing the town can do and feel that our state delegation needs to be doing more to protect this agricultural village in town. But I wonder if we can incorporate

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into the conditions some kind of um some kind of guidance around clear cutting of trees and you know I haven't been to every meeting regarding these projects but I haven't seen anything about garden space community garden

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space or anything that could continue the theme rest in peace that this was a farm and an agriculture cultal community and there seems to be no um continuation of that. I mean I would have liked to

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have seen the houses and and the theme continue that this was a farm. I think one of the developers had talked about doing something like that which I thought was a really nice idea but I'd like to see you really regulate both

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developers here around the clear cutting of trees. I think there could be a lot more done. Um, cutting down trees that are 70 or 80 feet and then building a fence or something is just not good enough. We need to do more. And I um

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would like to see you maybe as a board consider what you can do for these reszoned agricultural properties that are turning into developers bonanzas. Um, you know, there needs to be something something more.

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>> Thank you. >> May I May I suggest something? >> I'm sorry. This board does not reszone anything. We have no control over zoning. We only um manage the bylaws that are given to us. You need to be calling the planning

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department and the planning board. They're the ones that do this. Um, I would 100% agree with you. We are losing things that we shouldn't be losing in town, but we are not the board that can do that. >> Thank you. I didn't understand that.

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>> I I didn't think so, but unfortunately, because if we could >> Yeah, >> believe me. Well, and again, like I mentioned the last time I came up, it seems like segmentation, um, which I know isn't allowed, but here we have it again with two developments

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that are going to be side by side and they're not even working together or coordinating the destruction of the environment there. I mean, I'm thinking about farm animals, but there's also a lot of wild animals living there. And

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like I said the last time, we're losing 70 acres nearly of farm and woods in a very short stretch of sandwich road. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> And the board of selectman too may be able to help you. you know, not just planning the

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>> but I think, Madam Chair, not only that, but you have to remember that you we have certain members of town management that helped put this together as a lip and all of you folks in town, you'll

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this is approved, you'll you'll go through the suffering of everything you have to go through, unfortunately. Then, like every place else this happens in town, you'll forget about it. You all have to start talking to your select board members. You have to talk to your

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state representatives. This 40B is never going away. This is not going to change till all of you decide that you want it to change. We can't. We have to live by that law. So I I wish I I feel badly for you. I I truly do.

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>> As inongruous as it may sound, >> it's true. [clears throat] Madam Chair, we hear this a lot, not just with respect to Sandwich Road, but we've heard this complaint about agricultural land in other sections of town, and we're going to hear about it

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>> in the future with a lot of lot of other developments. Unfortunately, what has happened is that we have zoning districts that are called agricultural, but they're really not agricultural because the zoning bylaw treats them as residential. If you look at the details

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of the of the zoning bylaw, >> Mhm. >> um the the resident the agricultural um designation has just come down over the years from 1926 when we first adopted zoning, but over the years, I guess I'll call it residential creep. Um the the

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bylaw now accommodates more residential than it does agriculture. And it's just it's unfortunate because a lot of people get confused and their expectations arise and fall and it's a false premise here. So we're only dealing with the

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bylaw as it is as it is currently written. Um and I'm sorry but we have to do that. >> I'll take a motion from anybody to continue 7:30. Do you want to discuss uh your next meeting and what your

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expectations are before you? >> That's a good idea. >> Yeah. >> So, Brandon's going to bring me some stats. >> Yeah. >> And are you do you think you'll be able to do the a real plan? >> Um we can look and follow up based off

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what the what we think our time. >> One thing I really had a hard time with is I got something yesterday at 4 o'clock. I mean, our rules are a week. >> Mhm. I mean I mean I had to I had to stay home last night and do a lot of homework and then I had to do it today

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because it's coming in so late. I mean what if I you know I mean >> what about landscape plans? >> Yeah, we have landscape. >> You had the opportunity architecture. >> I do have the opportunity. >> You know some of us >> correct? >> Um yes landscape will be on the um >> yeah our understanding was the next

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hearing on the 30th was intended to focus on the architecture of the buildings and the landscaping on the site. Okay. Um and so uh hearing >> in the interior of the buildings for me so I can see the closets. >> I think that that will be included. So um as you noted decks and porch dimensions and closet layout so we will

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we will have floor plans that can be reviewed building heights as well. >> Um so from an architecture perspective uh not hearing major push back or concerns on the revised layout. I think that gives kind of my team the clearance to move forward with revisions to drain locations, sewer manhole locations and

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grading uh in the areas that have been adjusted. so we can get to work on that. Um, we will talk with the team to see if we want to try and get a full set of revised plans in before that meeting. Uh, with the understanding that if there are major questions on the landscaping that result in landscaping changes that

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there may then be a subsequent set. So that'll be something that we would discuss. I think our intent had been again collect [clears throat] all this feedback from these topicked hearings and then incorporate that all into a final set of plans. So there's one fully revised plan. the layout just kind of is

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a leading, you know, is a critical path on doing all of those plans. So, we thought getting some preliminary feedback on that would make sense. Um, >> Madam Chair, >> yeah, go ahead. >> I I understand the difficulty that you folks will face forward putting together

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the final plans. I do understand that. And you have to understand that when we see them for the first time, we may have questions. >> Yep. our concerns because we're not seeing them now to criticize them beyond what we see. >> Yep. >> Or not criticize them but to discuss them

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>> certainly. I when we hear from a butter I'm sorry >> I was going to when I talk about us submitting a final set of plans I that is a maybe final a poor choice of words. It is a it is a revised set of plans based off of the feedback. So we want to take the commentary that we've received

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so far and incorporate that to the extent that we can so that we can address as many of your comments and then when we come back hopefully we can explain how we have addressed them and there isn't many outstanding or there are things that we have to make agreements or concessions on at that meeting. So >> when you I appreciate that when you do

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look at the landscape plans you've heard comments about buffers. I would only ask that you do the best you can to provide those buffers in a way that are meaningful meaningful and not just super it should be meaningful as best as you

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can. You do have some room. >> Yep. >> Do the best you can on that. >> Yeah, we we are certainly clearing but that that cleared space is not occupied. So there is the opportunity to do that. We have obviously heard that concern here tonight. Uh, we heard it at the first one, which is why the pep park had moved and we made sure that we weren't

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clearing as far as I think we previously were. We'll see what we can do in the other areas that have been brought to our attention now. >> Okay, Mark, go ahead. um you seemed to state that there wasn't much uh push back and everybody was happy with your layout, but then you you realize there

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there's the buffer and and uh again there's there's Sandwich Road and and and the development next door that just I mean these happen to be right next to one another, but they they they affect one another. Um, and if if the issue,

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the main issue, the entrance, the traffic, the safety is addressed, it's going to change that whole thing upside down almost, which might work best. I don't know. Something's wrong. >> Okay. >> Um, Madam Chair, so I would just

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recommend for the next meeting where we're going to discuss landscaping that potentially they could take a look at that. uh easterly most property line the the section that you have up on the screen now to see if there's something

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that can be done there. I don't know if there's any type of fencing proposed or something >> to provide a buffer because it appears as though the neighbors structure is pretty close to that lot line as well. Yeah, >> we'll certainly

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>> and then also for the other side where that large retaining wall is to see if there's something that can be done to help soften the effect for the abutter. >> Go ahead. >> One more thing I didn't hear mentioned that I heard mentioned before and was a

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concern of the planning board. Uh it's the number of units I don't think he's going to reduce them by the look on his >> the first hearing. >> I think again that was asked at the first hearing. Um, >> next meeting.

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>> Yeah, Jim. Uh, Madam Chairman, if there's nothing else, I'll make a motion that uh, hearing 059-25, Felmouth Residential LLC, 809 Sandwich Road, be continued to 7:30 July 30th at 6 p.m. >> Second

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>> motion in a second. You all set with that? >> Yep. All those in favor? >> I oppose? None. Thank you. >> All right. All right. Next. Here it is. I have two tote bags today.

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>> All right. >> You need a rolling hat. >> I You need a roaming hat. You're right. I need you. I need a life. I really need All right. Go. All right. All right. All right. Let's see. Next at bat we

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have 06625 Sandwich Road Housing LLC. Good evening, Madam Chair, members of the board. My name is Attorney Jesse Schmer representing uh the developer of this project. With me here tonight, Madam Chair, are representatives of

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ownership, William the principal of the developer, as well as Doug Hartnett of High Point Engineering Project Civil Engineer of Record. Doug will be going through a presentation of the updated uh civil plan that was submitted to the board. I just have a couple of brief points of update to

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provide to the board with respect to some procedural aspects of the project and then I'll turn over uh to Doug after um opening up to questions by any members of the board if you have any for me. Uh since we were last before you, Madame Chair, we've addressed several

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items that were discussed at the last hearing. First and foremost of which was to formally notify Mass Housing of the proposed project change. Uh I was prepared to come up here tonight to say that we had not heard back from Mass Housing. However, as I was driving down

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uh from Boston, we did receive the letter. I'm sorry to say Mass Housing was not aware of the board's week uh week lead time policy for updated submissions. Um so we will be submitting a copy of that for record for the board in case you don't already have it through um through your um through your

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um clerk. Um, but in summary, Madam Chair, the uh the letter from Mass Housing data today and again sent to us at about 3:30, I just read it when we got into the room, found that the proposed change is not an insubstant is not a substantial uh change of the

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project that changes the u aspects of site eligibility that massousing already found. So from mass housing's perspective, that issue is resolved. Again, I'll be submitting a copy of that letter for the board members so that you have copies of that for your finals. question. Do you know how they

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determined that it was not a substantial change? >> I'm not sure >> what factors they used. >> Typically, what they're looking at in in a site eligibility is is really not even a 30,000 foot view of the site. It's kind of like 100,000 foot view. And it's really just do we have site control? Are

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there major glaring issues that the project couldn't be developed as being as is being proposed? So things like four units and not not to trivialize that but that's the sort of thing that mass housing typically would not find to be a substantial change as well as the

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other aspect. >> They don't care about changing of the age at all. >> That aspect that was part of their review. They did not find that to be substantial. >> That's not substantial to them at all. >> That's right. I guess George, you haven't had a chance to review that document yet. I take

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>> I have not seen the document. It it wasn't going. Hi, >> good evening everyone. >> Good evening. Good to be here. >> May I answer the question, Madam Chair? >> Please do. >> Um

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Um I I it was not unexpected to me that they actually wouldn't rule at all. Sometimes they just let the 15 days pass, in which case they deem it insubstantial. And then what they do is they look at it at final approval time after the whole process has gone

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through. So the fact that they actually acted on it is interesting. I'll be interested to see the letter. I I haven't seen it. Just kind of to touch on what Tony was asking that types of things that they'll find a substantial change um would be, you know, something

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specific in the regulations like a 10% increase um in the size of the project, things like that. maybe they would find it. The types of examples that the comprehensive permit regulations provide do not um would not be examples of

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things that would be a substantial change when compared to what the changes are here. So it's not surprising at all. I can tell you that massous uh mass housing found that way. But I I haven't seen the letter yet. >> Thank you. >> And so you have to treat your

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application now as a modified proposal before you. So you you know you could end up denying it and liking the first project first, but you'd have to justify that, you know, on local regulations and being reasonable. So what I would recommend you do is just view this

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changed project as it is on the merits and and ask questions and make comments on this new proposal. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Thanks. >> Thank you very much. The second topic to update the board on since we were last before you, we have received and

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reviewed the peerreview scope of work from the civil engineer and the traffic engineer. Uh checks to fund those accounts have been submitted. So those those uh peer review, as far as we're aware, are underway. We will be submitting a letter after this hearing. I didn't want to file this before

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tonight's hearing in light of the the board's policy of of one week advanced notice, but we are going to be filing a letter just for record purposes expressing our views regarding a few of the items in the proposed scope of work. We did fund the accounts. As I said, we're not asking for the peer reviewers

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to hold off on their work, but we did have a couple of slight concerns about the way that some of the tasks were phrased and just want to clarify for the record and make sure that the peer reviewers aren't doing tasks and work that is duplicative of each other or otherwise isn't supposed to be done under the 40p regulations, but I'll I'll

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submit that for record for the board. >> May I ask a question? >> Yeah, go ahead. I'm not an attorney, so I don't always know what how to interpret what an attorney writes, but I took it as a veiled threat that tell me if I'm wrong, and of course, we have our own attorney here, that if you

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didn't like the way something was done, you would ask for a reimbursement as you did on some another town. >> That that was not me who did that on another town. No, >> no, but is is that was that in your letter? >> That is that is something that we will be submitting. Yes. Um there is there's

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a case that talks about uh housing appeals committee case that was that came out I believe it was last year um that talks about various tasks of work. We're not it wasn't intended to be a threat. It was more >> int but madam chair >> that yeah >> it kind of intimidates the people doing

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the work. >> It wasn't the intent to intimidate them more to set them on the course of you shouldn't be duplicating your work with the traffic engineer. You should be reviewing the work that's in your lane essentially. So, not not intended to be a threat to >> who ends up being the final judge of

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that. >> The housing appeals committee does. >> All right. So, if you didn't like the way it went, >> no matter what the decision was. But I just want to make sure I understand what we're dealing with. No matter what this board decided in the end, you would then appeal that part and then they could

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then you could ask the court to have the town reimburse you. >> That could happen. Our hope is that it won't be necessary for there to be any appeal because we want to work with the board and with your peer reviewers on the the review process. >> So just the sort of dim miclease just kind of hangs there for a while.

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>> That that wasn't our intention. >> Well, it was your intention because you put it in writing. >> It was our intention to ensure that it out >> that the peerreview consultants are aware of the limits. >> First of all, this board does not like being threatened, nor does the town like being threatened. >> Understood. >> So let's stop doing that. Now, I

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shouldn't be speaking up, but I'm because this sort of thing really angers me. >> Yeah. >> When you do that, when any attorney does it >> and this has been nothing but a problem, this this particular site, I don't want to go too far with that. But don't threaten this board or the town.

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>> Right. >> Understood. >> So, I would like to see you write something says you're not going to do that. Why should any why should this town hire anyone under those circumstances with

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the threat that they that this town might have to reimburse them? Where's the town supposed to come up with the money once it's spent? >> That's that's precisely the reason why we submitted the letter. >> So why don't we just crawl under the desk here, cower, and hope for the best? Is that what

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we're supposed to do? >> No. >> Well, then don't write things like that. >> What we're all supposed to do is follow the rules. That was the intent of submitting the letter. In the case that was submitted, the Weston case, that was a particularly egregious example where there were years of review, multiple

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reviewers review. >> We have done nothing egregious in this town and we don't have to be reminded about the Madam Chair. I'm sorry. I apologize. >> No, he sent us the whole case. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> It's it's understood it wasn't intended to be a threat in any way. Just a caution to all parties, us included,

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that when this review is underway, there shouldn't be duplicated work. There shouldn't be things that are being done on behalf of other parties. Follow the rules. That's that's the >> also said the that the uh peer cannot go to town hall to talk to staff. >> Yeah.

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>> So therefore, that leaves our secretary out there. They can't speak to the secretary. The intent of the the peerreview allowance of peer review under the 40B statute is that the peer reviewers review the proposal before them. The four corners of what's

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submitted, not that they talk to outside parties, not that they go and do their own research. It's to review to confirm that these submissions comply with applicable regulations as we proposed. >> I please. Yeah, >> George, please.

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>> Uh, so there's a few issues with it. Um, first and foremost, the 518 South A um 40B decision that's cited in council's letter was not an egregious case of peerre uh abuse. It's extremely complex

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project with multiple discip disciplines involved in it and review and they did a peer review and the HAC ordered reimbursement of certain amount of those funds. That decision is under appeal. It has no binding precedent on this board

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or anybody else. So, and that case is under appeal. It was first appealed to the superior court and now it's being appealed to the Massachusetts appeals court under a uh authorization of the Weston Select Board that occurred this week actually. So, that case is being

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appealed. Having said that, um, so I I respectfully disagree with the HAC's reasoning in the 518 South AB case and we'll let the appeals court decide that issue and that's not the only issue on appeal. In fact, it's a minor issue on

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the major issues that are being appealed in that that matter. Um, couple of things about peer review is really the applicant has no say over peer review. the the the um

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requirements are pretty basic. You know, no conflict of interest and proper qualifications. Both of these peer reviewers are well qualified. No conflict of interest. Having said that, attorney Schmer is correct on the regulations do um the comprehensive

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permit regulations do encourage cooperation between the board and the applicant about the scope of peer review. So you do want to avoid um any type of disagreement over the scope of the review. So it it's not

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improper for council to the applicant to raise an issue of gee this exceeds the scope. This is not what I thought would be included. the manner that this is done, you know, in sort of, not to speak for Tony, was a little bit aggressive because it was

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threatening reimbursement that's going to come out of the town's pocket. >> Um, but what I what's important for your uh process is you want to make sure that these peer reviewers understand what the objections are to the scope and that they can go

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ahead with their peer review with the objections noted. In other words, are there issues that are in there that they've put in their scope that they're concerned about to be able to provide a full peer review to you? So, I [clears throat] would recommend that they look at the issues that were raised

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by the applicant and council and and see if there's and and be clear like if there's any issue that was stated as beyond the scope, they should be clear that no, this is within the scope and we need to do this as part of our peer review. So I I would recommend that we do that

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>> before they do any work on it. They need to look at this and they need to respond to it because you can't have them shortanded on it. >> Like if if they have put a proposal forth and they think that certain issues are required for them to look at, including a site visit, they need to

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weigh in on that. If they see that there are issues that are noted in Attorney Shmer's letter that are perfectly reasonable for them to amend or say, "Yeah, we didn't intend to do that." then then that would be fine. There's no reason for controversy. >> Didn't the letter say no site visit too, Tony? >> It did. I saw it. No site visit. I

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[clears throat] >> like >> find that a little unusual. But you know, >> you know, issues like that. So, >> what I would recommend is >> before the the peer reviewers commence their work, they look at the issues that were raised and they respond to that.

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Yes, I can agree that I'm not doing XYZ. No, I need to do ABC and and make sure that we get get agreement on that, you know, first. >> Okay. >> Um and then have them go forward with it. So, I think that would be the way I would

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recommend you handling it. And I, you know, it I don't love it. I don't love the letter. And I know attorney Schmer, he's a good lawyer. He's he's a 40B expert. I there's nothing that he's doing that's improper. I don't love the letter either. It it was sort of a shot

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across the bow. >> It was >> Anybody that does 40B practice knows that that Weston case is an extremely controversial project. So, it's it's a little bit aggressive, you know, when we're trying to have a give and take. Uh, as that that lady had mentioned, you

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know, these 40B processes are a give and take and sometimes you discuss issues that you know are a little bit beyond, but you're trying to get to a good project on something. So, you kind of work together. So, the letter was a little bit aggressive. Um, I would

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recommend that the board just sort of, you know, recognize it for what it is and and address it through allowing the peer reviewers to comment back to you on it before they do their work. Does that make sense? >> I've never heard of a peer review not be allowed to like drop something off in

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Norine's office or say hi. >> Like, what? >> Yeah, I they can stop by Norin's office and say hi. But, you know, they don't have to be. >> No, it says not allowed to confer with any staff at town hall. >> Yeah. >> So, Madam Chair, >> that's crazy.

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>> Through you, I I have to wonder if this is an attempt to keep peers engineers working for this town. >> Is that what this is about? >> Not at all. It's an attempt to lay out the the road

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the rules of the road for the peer consultants who from experience there can be a process where the the ongoing review process by this board. The peer reviewers start to review things. It's it snowballs. It gets out of control as occurred in the Weston case. There was

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there was years of review. We're not claiming that the board didn't did anything uh wrong or will do anything wrong. Nor were we claiming that the peer consultants will as as I is noted in my letter. They're well-reputable firms. We don't claim that they're unqualified. We don't claim that there's

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any conflict of interest. We're we're perfectly happy with them being the reviewers. We just want to make sure there doesn't come a situation where we're all down the road six, seven months from now and the peer consultants have done $30,000 in work and are asking the the applicant to reimburse them for

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those. I would just make sure that they have the ability to weigh in on it and and if if they can agree that there certain items that are mentioned in there is not part of their review. Fine. to specify if if they need to talk to a town department or whatever it is that is in there that may or may not be

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objected to they need to specify no we fully intend to go forward with this and we should get a confirmation in advance because I don't 518 South A and Weston is under appeal but we don't want to end up in appeal and we don't want to end up with a a sum of money that the town has

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to pay back because we didn't look at it now so they've raised the issue the peer reviewers are going to have to review it and get back to the board if they're still willing to go forward and what if anything they're willing to omit from their scope based on on the objection

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before they do it. And it's not I've this happens, you know, this isn't the only applicant that raises an issue about the scope of peer review. It it happens in in cases. You want to be careful about it. I mean, I I recently had a have a very controversial wetlands

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permitting case that involves an energy project and they objected to they made changes to the peer reviewer scope and the peer reviewer said, "Guess what? I'm not working on this." So now there's no peer reviewer and that project is going forward. So >> which is my point,

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>> you just Yeah. So you want to make sure that the peer reviewers who have been engaged look at the objections and note their response to it and see if they're still willing to go forward and if so is there any modification to their scope that they can provide you. So I I would

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get that done upfront because of this uh I'm not going to say a threat because it's adversarial to say that but because of this letter I would recommend that they weigh in on it before they go forward with their work. Should we, Madam Chair, should we have the applicant write the RFP on this?

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>> No, [laughter] sorry. No, >> I was that was tongue and cheek. Just joking. >> Yeah. >> Have you ever had a 40B where the pier was not allowed on the property at all? >> No, that that's >> I've never heard of. Yeah. I mean, they they don't have to do multiple site visits, but often, you know, they want

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>> I've never had one where they didn't go on that I know of. >> I I didn't read this letter. >> Oh, you'll have fun. I'm glad you did. >> Yeah, but but I I just question why they ran this thing up the flag pole anyway. They looking for >> Yeah.

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>> I mean, I'm sorry. I've given my advice on it. I'd recommend you follow that advice and move on to >> have one more question. You said the checks have been submitted. Was there a dollar amount that you've agreed to for the traffic and the engineering? >> I don't recall what they were. We submitted exactly what the peer

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reviewers uh estimated for their fees. Do you know noring what the dollar value was on those or >> if not that's fine. >> And the fact that they gave the check doesn't mean that they won't seek reimbursement later. >> I just trying to understand the risk on the town. >> I apologize we're going to have to get

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past this when you submitted that check for the 53g account. Were you aware of the scope of work that the peer engineer was to perform? >> We were. >> Was there any objection to that? That's noted in my letter.

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>> So that is what you're noting. You you But yet you still >> said I'll pay for it. >> We don't want but watch out. >> That that wasn't our intention to say watch out. It was to the peer reviewers to say here are the guard rails. >> I just want it on the record. That's

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all. >> That's what I'm saying. The fact that they made the deposit doesn't mean they can't seek reimbursement later. So I would just allow the peer reviewers to weigh in on it. >> Okay. Just one final point before I I hand over to to Doug. U since we were

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last before you, we did I did submit by letter a summary of the project and the changes as the board had requested. Uh enclosed with that letter was also the uh copies of the civil plans on single sheets as the board had requested. Those are at a slightly uh lower scale than

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the previous submission. There are no changes to the plans. They're just differently scaled so that they fit on one sheet. And then finally, we did also submit for record a revised copy of the requested waiverss list which corresponds to the updated plans. Unless the board members have any further

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questions of me, Madam Chair, I'd like to turn over to Dr. >> Thank you. Sorry. >> Good evening, Madam Chairman >> and members of the board of appeals. Doug Hartnett, principal at High Point

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Engineering, representing uh the applicant this evening to discuss the civil engineering of the uh project and being discussed this evening. Um, I have not presented to this board first, so if there's any technical issues I have, I'll be sure to reach out

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to staff and hopefully we can address all your questions. We also look forward to the peer reviewers as previously discussed with the applicants attorney and I look forward to working with everybody in this town to make this a successful project. >> I thought what I'd do is uh go back to

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the existing conditions of the property. existing condition survey prepared by Bracken Engineering just to refresh everybody's memory about uh the property limits, the existing conditions of the property and um what sets the basis for the design. So the property itself, as you

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can see, is shaped similar to to typical hammerhead type of lot. This lot area is about 14.6 acres. Uh it's predominantly vegetated uh with the exception of the area of the old horse stable that extended onto the properties. You can see up in this area

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and try here in this area here. Property is bisected by a 100 foot wide transmission easement controlled by Cape and Vineyard Electric Company. On the right hand side of the property, this is uh again fully vegetated area. As part of our due diligence on the on

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the land, we've conducted soil testing uh back in December of last year. Testing was witnessed by the board of health. For the purposes of on-site sewage disposal design, 19 test pits were excavated and witnessed. Um, as it

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is with most of Falmouth, the soils are predominantly medium sand. Test pits were excavated down to about 12 ft. No ground water observed, so the soil conditions are more than adequate to support the development plan. Uh what I'd like to do is just really

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discuss the development looking at the landscape plan. I think the color helps to uh better present what the project is. And I'm working on this is the first time I've done this with this particular item here. As you access Sandwich Road and you come

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in from the west to east, you can see that the road is loaded with uh single family for sale units that are mostly detached. As you come into the core of the development, this is the air the development plan that the board originally saw in the the original

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application with a loop road that extends into the west side of the property adjacent to the electric easement that you see here with a connecting alley between the loop road and here you can see the units

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identified in white. The unit count in the what we call the core area, the core condominium area is 50 building or 50 units. That's a mix of 40 detached and 10 attached units.

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Uh the revised aspect of the application continues the roadway as a dead-end driveway extending down through and then essentially a deadend street that loads 14 parcels that would be created under a

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subdivision of the property. These would be single family four-bedroom single family homes and more traditional rural type of devel of de design for the development plan. The roadway itself is designed as a 20

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foot wide two-way roadway. The core roadway is designed, this roadway section is, as I said, 20 ft with a 5-ft grass strip and a uh 5-ft sidewalk. So, if you were to kind of look into the zoom it in, you can see generally the

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way the layout of the roadway and how it works. Okay? And that condition is consistent as you go through the core development area. As you get to the crossing of the electric easement, the roadway transitions to a gravel

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roadway. The reasoning we did this is to create a more rural setting for the single family parcels in the rear of the property. Again, this roadway would be 20 ft wide, two-way as similar in dimension to the width of the paved area

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with essentially a dead end up on the top end area here and a dead end dead end down in the south area here. Uh, this deadend roadways have been designed to meet the NFPA requirements for dead-end turnarounds for fire apparatus. Uh those maneuvering

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studies have been conducted for this project and can be provided to the peer reviewers as they go through their effort to review the project. As you see the other elements of the plan, you see the limits of vegetation,

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existing vegetation remained is in these um call it a Kelly green area here. Areas that are being graded that would be reveated are shown in the darker green and then the development proper itself is shown in the lighter green. That'd be really the more the traditional um design for the landscape

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in that area there. What you see here for the units, we're taking advantage of the sloping topography. If you go back to the existing conditions plan, you'll notice that the site is predominantly flat as you go through the central and eastern

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side of the property. And as you get into this area here, the property slopes down pretty significantly offsite to what's what is an offsite pond over here whose buffer zones do not encroach onto the property to take advantage of the sloping

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landscape. What we've proposed is to provide uh I think it's 15 units that would have walk out conditions sl running along this edge of the roadway. And what that does is it allows you to reduce any excavations and any grading by taking advantage of the slope to

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provide the walkouts in this area here for parking. Typical uh active adult units with one vehicle garage, one vehicle for parking outside of the garage. So, two per unit

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as well as 25 visitor spaces sprinkled around the access drive access road um as parallel parking type of design. Also, you'll see these green space panel here and a green space panel here. These

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panels provide uh visual interest for the uh unit owners that would be surrounding in this area and this area but also provide the footprints for sewage disposal areas for the storm uh for the sewage

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treatment um aspect of the project. As you come across to the single family area, you can see the what we're proposing to be the limits of the clearing. It's about 10 ft minimum to

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the lot lines. It does vary a bit and really the clearing limits are predicated on the grading as well as the sewage disposal systems for each one of these buildings. And we'll get into the the sewage disposal system design aspects.

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uh in in a little bit later in the presentation. Oh, wrong way. Excuse me. Okay. Storm water management. You bear with me here. closed collection system consisting of catch basins with conveyance pipes

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discharging to subsurface cult storm water chambers sprinkled throughout the property. So as we go from west to east we have an area here to collect storm water prior to discharge to sandwich road so we don't introduce any runoff to [clears throat] the public way. As we

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come into the property itself, excuse me, I'm a little bit here trying to get my air. Apologize for that. As we come around the property, you see footprints of Caltech chamber areas

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here, here, smaller areas along the roadways, smaller areas adjacent to the roadways here, and then behind the buildings, these are storm water chambers that are um discharged by the roof. So, there'll

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be a separate roof drain collection system for the buildings. There would be a se a separate header that collects those roof leaders and then ties to infiltration areas adjacent to basically adjacent to the the call it the the the grouping of

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buildings as you're in the east side of the property, west side of the property, north and south. What this design does is it allows decentralization of the storm water management. So uh by providing this it more mimics the hydraologic aspects of

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the property better design that's uh encouraged by DM the storm water management policy as you come across to the single family portion of the project. This is designed due to the fact that we are proposing gravel roadways. This is more of a

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traditional Cape Cod, Martha's Vineyard type of design where you would have a slightly cross- pitched roadway with a roadside swale, grassline roadside swale that conveys runoff through small culverts, driveway [snorts] crossings.

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This see Madam Chair, quick question. Yeah, we >> I'm not sure I I heard what you just said. >> Yes. >> Did you say it's a gravel road? >> Yes, sir. Mhm. Okay. So the high point for the roadway is essentially at the intersection. So this

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portion of the roadway discharges to grass line swale sediment four bays and then a recharge area in this location here. And the similar design for the grass line swale sediment four bays and

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then recharge with a separator row that we [clears throat] have in this location here. From a best management practice standpoint, all the subsurface chambers and all the storm water is designed to capture,

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pre-treat, and infiltrate up to the 100-year event. There's no release of any storm water associated with this design. The pre-treatment meets the 44% TSS removal requirements for critical areas.

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>> Can I have to ask a quick question? >> Yes. I've never had a gravel road before in a 40B. >> Now these are ownerships, [snorts] >> correct? >> So your gravel starts to wain. So the people are have to provide their own gravel in front of their house. Is that how it would work?

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>> From an association perspective, even though these are single family homes, the maintenance of the roadway network is likely taken care of by the association. So the association would have an operation and maintenance plan for both the gravel roadway as well as

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for the paved roadway. >> And why did you choose gravel? >> We were seeking to create a more rural condition. >> It's not going to be rural. This is like crazy crazy. >> Far from rural. >> I can see the general league going around the corner there right now, you know. [laughter]

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>> Yeah. >> No, seriously. >> I'm laughing about the general league comment. That's all I seriously choose gravel. This is not rural. It doesn't have a second of rural >> but it sounds good. That >> the rural word is pretty. Okay. Thank you.

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>> That was the design intent. Uh so we talked about the storm water management uh strategy, talked about the roadway network. We can discuss now uh the septic system. >> Madam Chair, before we leave this this

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whole thing because I'll lose my train of thought on it. Yeah. What is the benefit of gravel versus paved? What is the benefit of them? Forget the rural thing because this is not rural, but >> I like the idea. It's very pretty.

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>> But what is the benefit of gravel versus paved besides expense >> coverage? >> Yeah, it's the impervious coverage is also >> what's the lot coverage by uh paving [snorts] and structures here? >> About 42%. So if you to pave that road

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would be at 49. >> I don't know the exact number but it would be it would be greater. >> You guys are math all day long. Look at you >> Mr. Finan. I don't know the exact number. >> So but to your point it would increase. >> Any other questions from the board

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before I go to sewage disposal design? Thank you. >> [clears throat] >> So the sewage disposal design is set up in a manner to take advantage of the best available technology as approved by DP for innovative alternative septic

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systems to provide denitrification prior to discharge. In this particular design for the core area, we are proposing a standard gravity sewer collection system to pick up all the discharges from every one of

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the 50 units that you see in here with the gravity collection system discharging to a innovative alternative call it a treatment plant which is designed based upon our coordination with ORCO. It's an

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Advantex IIA system which is one of the systems that have been uh approved by DP that includes a settling tank, flow equalization, uh a return tank, filter pods that are

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part of their approp um their technology discharge to a pump chamber and then that pump chamber runs a force man up and then discharges to a sewage disposal field. In this case, it's an infiltrator advanced envirroeptic sewage disposal field. Uh

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the flows for the core development area are assumed to be 8,400 gallons a day based upon the active adult uh use of 150 gallons per unit plus some units that have three bedrooms. So those have been accounted for in the sewage disposal estimates. >> What was that? 8,400. Did you

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>> 8,400 >> that pump chamber? How far on the ground is that? Well, this is downhill, so it's a good question. Um, >> we we purposely put it in this area to take advantage of this dropping grades, so we did not have to have the pump

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chambers and all the other components significantly deeper than the landscape. I can get that information for you. I don't have >> Is there going to be a noise issue here? >> No different than any other type of area that has pump chambers. It's these these

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are all underground as you're probably aware if you've seen them. They all have covers on them. There is a small building. It's a maintenance shed. It has probably a chemical feed for the um >> for the dnitrification process. Not dissimilar from some of the other technologies.

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you. >> Tony, >> just to follow up on that question, we can't talk about anything else, but we have a project here in town that I was asked to visit, very large, and there [snorts] was a I think a fan system that

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was very annoying to everybody. Uh, well, the butters in this case, it's going to be inside. Do we have a similar situation going on here where the Because once it's in, it's done. And then you got to try and buffer it. Do we have a loud impending potential noise

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coming from this? >> Uh Mr. Pouchi, I don't believe we do. It's not an airation system. You would hear the blowers from the fans >> in a typical aation system. This is not that technology as best as I know. But I can have an answer for you.

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>> I would love to have that answer because I did witness it. Uh and it is very annoying to others. >> Very good. be happy to answer that for you the next meeting. >> As we move over to the >> single family area,

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these are intended to be individual sewage disposal systems. IIA technology is the same advant technology except it's smaller in scale. Uh these are designed as 440 gallon per day four-bedroom units and those are

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individually um set as you can see the footprints on the plan. Those footprints have been set up to meet title five requirements for property line setbacks, building setbacks and uh groundwater separation and so forth. >> M I'm sorry. You

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>> and the HOA is going to take care of all the inspections the first year and all that. >> Yes. So, I would suspect in a typical HOA like this, these unit owners would have their obligations to maintain their own systems. Typically, there's a contract that needs to be demonstrated to the town.

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>> I thought some of those were affordable. >> Yeah. What's going to happen if that gets uh uh uh those aren't dites? >> Yes, they are. >> They are. >> They are dits. Yeah, it's all dite. >> They're all D. >> Mhm. >> Aren't those affordable? Some of those 14.

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>> Uh yes. >> Yes. comparable in terms of their quantity. >> So they're in charge of their DNI system. >> The the creation of the association and the obligations to maintain the sewage disposal and the dite will be taken care of as part of the association

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agreements. So to your point, if we were concerned about the affordable units not or or putting the oblig uh the the burden if you will on maintaining those systems, we can discuss how that would be uh managed in an association document.

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>> I think we'd like to see drafts of those documents just to make sure that a >> affordable unit owner is not going to get saddled with a large bill unexpectedly. >> Mhm. And how much electricity could they uh >> Sorry, madam chair. >> Look forward to paying every month, >> the affordable ones >> to run that.

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>> I don't have the answer for you, Mr. >> Maybe you could get that. Just so we know. >> Yeah, we're going to need that that data. >> Okay. >> Please. >> Actual Massachusetts electricity prices. >> Yeah, >> understood. >> Madam Chair, unless of course there's an objection from their attorney about that

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too. >> Would there be an objection >> to get the data? to get the data. >> We can speak with uh Oreno who is the manufacturer to see if they have real data in terms of what the electricity usage is for in order to be able to operate there.

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>> Yeah. Because when this board asks for something, it would be good that we get it versus getting another letter that says we're not going to get it. So, I'm just because it wastes everybody's time, your time, our time. We're anticipating getting something. So I'd like to know

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now is there any objection to us getting that information? >> No, not that I can see. The question is can I isolate the energy usage data for those systems? If somebody has a house and they have a their electric bill, their electric bill doesn't

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differentiate operation of their IIA system versus operation of the rest of the electricity in the home. Right. So that's why I have to go to the manufacturer. They should have data. >> Yeah, they have all that >> and I'll do my best to get that of course. >> Thanks. Uh and then in closing on the design for

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this for the core area, I should mention this is designed to meet the title 5 requirement for the footprint for the leeching area. As I said, it's the infiltrator advanced enviral septic sewage disposal field. This area here is the reserve area. So, we've purposely

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broken those out. I found in my career, it's almost easier to not have reserve areas sprinkled in between the existing um chambers to isolate it so that in the event that you had to put something online uh quickly that you could do that

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um with the reserve area. So that's it's not uncommon to have the reserve area somewhat remote from the primary field. >> I mean this all has Madam Chair. >> Yeah, this all has to go before the board of health anyway. >> Correct. Yeah, there'll be a full review of that. Uh, I heard the board mention

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water on the previous hearing. Uh, we are proposing an 8 inch water man extending from the main off of Sandwich Road extends into the site. The water man is looped within the core area. Internal

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looping with a dead end um water >> end of that is a dead end. >> Pardon me, sir. >> Either end of that is going to be a dead end. The 14 What's the length on that dead end? >> This ex this roadway I had it written

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down is about 700 750 ft roughly. Wow. >> So it's if you think about a dead end street culde-sac dead end street oftentimes between 500 and 750 >> where you live in a lot of the towns I've worked in it's for a dead end

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street that's a subdivision roadway. >> 500 feet is not uncommon for a dead end street. So, >> okay, >> Madam Chair. Sure. >> Just the same question the last the last applicant on this dead end. How do you keep that water from becoming stagnant? How do you flush it?

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>> Can I I I know the I know. Yes. Yeah. >> I just want He's the engineer. I I just ask >> you can do it a number of ways. You can >> true, but you can also coordinate with the fire department to open the hydrants to flush it like they flush the town has a flush program.

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>> You don't need to flush it every week. Mr. I had a house on a dead end. >> If I left for four or five days, >> you could tell by looking in the toilet. >> I mean, it's the same water getting delivered. And it's not the water they're delivering. It's the pipes that it's going through. >> Understood.

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>> Isn't this a private road? >> Yes. >> Yeah. But it's town water. It's kind of >> department's not going to go picking >> mashing around on a private road. >> Not in a million years. We can barely >> the hydrants that we have. And of course, it's not fire department duty. I think we have to get an extra something

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in writing from them about how they're going to manage that. >> Um, I have no clue. I I have no clue. I've got a lot of experience in this, but I have no clue how you're going to manage this or how the association will manage that going forward. We don't get looked at this yet.

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>> We don't want people getting sick. >> Waiting. >> I don't think they're going to be happy with a 700 foot log dead end. >> I'm certainly not. >> Well, he thinks it's normal. >> I He's the engineer. I mean, he's done this before. >> I mean, he's pretty experienced guy.

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>> Well, we have water main extension agreements which said say that if the town provides the water, the town takes over ownership of the pipes and I'm sure the water department will have information or comment on this because

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it's a problem they don't like. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. They don't they don't want one more dead end. As a matter of fact, the last one we had, it was in a hope that they can loop. Dead ends [clears throat] are problematic. I've owned property with dead ends. I mean,

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>> well, we can come up with a recommendation on the amount, you know, the frequency of the flushing. Uh, if there's a private contractor that gets uh managed by the association in coordination with the fire department to flush these areas more frequently, we'll do that.

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>> The town's in a drought. I think they're going to find it a little difficult to be flushing this thing every >> and the fire department's got a manpower drought. I I I know that for a fact. And well, it hasn't gone to engineering yet. They might have something to say. >> I think we're going to find out. I think we'll find out.

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>> We'll just we're just >> Yeah, we're moving along. >> Understood. Thank you, madam. Respond. Uh other than that on the utility we discussed water we discussed sewer underground electric telephone cable pretty traditional for any kind of a

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subdivision residential style development. Uh and I believe [snorts] that is the um that is it. This is >> show me where the hydrants are

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please if >> I can get in there. See if I can see them here. See, we have a Okay, I'd have to zoom in pretty tightly, Madam Chair. We have one in here. Pros hydrant with water gate cluster up in here. And they

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they're sprinkled up typically the hydrant layouts 500 ft between hydrants from the fire department's perspective. and we'll ensure that we meet that um that pretty that typical standard um as we go through the final. >> You can just bring it next time you come if you want to and point them out.

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>> They're in here. I just It's hard to see at this scale. >> Next time and put it in your homework base. >> Sure. Sure. >> We can just >> We can color code it to make it easier for the board to see. >> Absolutely. >> On that subject m have you done a flow test yet?

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>> No. It was interesting. I heard the um the testimony of the previous um >> should be the same theoretically. >> Yeah, I heard 64 and 62 62 >> 64. Yes. >> And the 62 and the residual. So that's more than adequate for a project like this.

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>> Will you be doing a flow test or is that going to be duplicating somebody else? >> It depends on where they did the flow and the pressure testing. If there if it's on the same line right in front of our property, we can utilize that data. Have you talked with Yeah, just go ahead. Have you spoken

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with the uh with Eversource about power supply? Do you have adequate power supply for this? This is a pretty big pl uh very condensed very uh big project. >> Yeah, the answer is no. Um we have not petitioned that we have not submitted a work order. That's typically the way how

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you engage every source or national grid prepare the work order on what your demand will be and then they will take it from there and engineer a layout for the project. >> So they would in so they would determine how to get you the power you needed. >> That's correct. >> I just want that on the record. >> Power line easement running right

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through the place. >> That's transmission level though. It's not um >> just plug, distribution. >> That should be adequate. >> The whole project's electric, right? >> Correct. >> A lot of power. Yeah. >> Yeah. Go on that easement. >> Yes. >> No, no, no. Anyway,

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>> for the development, >> so you're going to have all of that. That's all. >> Well, I think it's premature to get Eversource to do the engineering. You wouldn't do that until you know the project's fixed. >> But I have to ask the question because it I have we have to be sure that that's something you're going to do. I mean, it

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makes sense that you do. If you're professional, you're going to do these things. >> I understand. But most of the projects that when we when the service letter is submitted for the request for service that's done when you're imminently ready to build the project or we're not really

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imminent ready to build it at this point. >> So you're not aware of any limitations? I guess my question is you're not aware of any limitations. >> Yes, we're not aware of any limitations. >> Are there street lights? >> Uh we do have a phototric plan. I don't

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think it's on the full size. The answer is yes, we do >> on both sections. >> Yes. You know what? Um, yes, we do >> to light up the gravel. >> Have to go find >> seashells. >> The rural lighting lighting.

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>> Bear with me while I look for >> what was [clears throat] submitted. We have a phototric plan here. and phototric plan. Oh, sorry a little bit. So, you can see the lighting locations.

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Sorry, I'm being a little There we go. So, you see like a typical light pole location here, here, here, sprinkled around the core. And as you get over to the rural area, uh you can see the light poles also located on the right side of

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the BR of the railway. May >> and the phototric land demonstrates that there's no light. >> I noticed that your cut sheet is let me put does not appear to be dark sky friendly. Do you believe this is

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dark sky friendly? I have to go back to the cut sheet where it is here. >> It's a Sternberg ASS440. >> Uh it doesn't allow any light vertical. It's typically the dark sky requirement >> because we've generally asked for dark sky friendly.

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>> Correct. Yeah. It will confirm as dark sky compliant if the if that uh is the will of the board. Absolutely. We'll do that. >> It's a good time to ask the question now early on. Is there any solar planned? >> Not planned at this point

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>> and >> it will be with it all electric. >> Okay. And I can answer any more questions while I'm here. Anybody have any other questions up here? >> Well, just my usual objections

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running under >> wait for the beer. >> Madam chair. Oh, sorry. Um, so I just wanted a couple of questions. I wanted to check with you. Um, regarding the drainage in the septic area. It's my understanding that you cannot plant

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trees etc in those areas. Correct. >> That's correct. So that would potentially limit the amount of planting that will occur [snorts] in that center area. >> That's why we left it as a full grass panel as you see here. >> Yeah.

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>> And did not introduce plantings with roots and so forth so it did not conflict with the either the storm water or the sewers disposal. >> Okay. Um, and then with the roadway, are you planning um a roadway that will meet town standards

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for subdivision? >> In terms of the width, no, the roadway is 20 ft in width, >> not 24 ft in width. >> Right? Because it's important for you to understand if you do not build to town standards, there will be no town services. There'll be no plowing, no

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trash pickup, etc. >> Okay? And I raised this to your attention because we have had problems and concerns from other developments where the owners are unaware that while they're paying

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taxes, they are not entitled to services. >> That's a lot of trash. >> And we are getting complaints because the trash rates continue to rise and particularly for the affordable homeowners who are limited in their income.

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they don't have a way to accommodate those increase in prices. So, you know, they're contacting the town saying, "Hey, you know, we're paying you taxes. We're homeowners. We're not getting trash pickup. We're not getting plowing. We're paying for this privately."

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>> So, to answer your question, this road network is intended to be private. Typically, with developments such as this that would have a private roadway, it's this it's the responsibility of the association to maintain the roadway. So to your point, I agree it would be the association's responsibility.

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>> So that's >> if and when the the board the the developer petition the town to take the road. So there in lies the problem and that's why we bring this up at the very beginning is because if you do not construct a town standards you can never

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petition the town to take the road because >> if you intent potentially have them take it. They need to be inspecting the roadway as it goes in so that they know it's built to their standards. But I can also promise you again based on the fact

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that we've had multiple 40bs that if you do not build to town standards, including width, the town will not, you know, again, they won't take the road, they won't do trash pickup, they won't do plowing, nothing. And it's critical

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that all those new homeowners understand that because a lot of people think they can petition the town afterward because that's the natural process. except they'll be forever precluded

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and that seems to be a massive gap. So I would recommend if that's the way you're going to proceed that that be in the homeowner documents so that they're aware on purchase that this is the circumstance. >> Okay. That means we also have an issue

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where you're going to put the snow and uh where you going to put the garbage. >> Well, it's got to be private private trash, right? You know what you should do, which which would be beneficial, I think, as an operational cost for each dwelling. >> Well, >> like how much you're going to pay for your snow, how much you're going to pay for your

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>> plowing, you know, for all of that >> needs addressing. Anyway, >> especially in in in regarding the affordable units. >> Quick question on this. >> Yeah, go ahead. Will you be uh engaging somebody to put together a professional

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or reserve study and operating study [clears throat] with regard to repair cycles, things like that, so these folks know what they're going to be dealing with? That's pretty typical, Mr. Petrrui, on any association type of when the developer uh

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or transfers the responsibility of the maintenance of the of the roadways. a reserve study as part of that effort undertaken by the trustees of the association. You'd >> be surprised. I >> I just know from my other experiences. So >> yeah, but I'm just telling you'd be surprised. [laughter]

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>> So the testimony is Yes. >> Is that what you're saying? >> In terms of Now you just I have to rephrase >> Yeah. >> It's usually taken care of at the time of transfer of the property to the association. the developer has the responsibility to maintain it during

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construction and at some point when the property is substantially completed. There's an arrangement made for the homeowners to create an association to vote in the trustees and to convey the rights of the operation and maintenance to the association. You see the flaw.

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You see the consult. You see the Madam Chair, but you do see the flaw in that. I already bought and now I have to have to do a reserve study that I have to fund with $25,000. So, I mean, there is a flaw to that process. >> I have a place in Naples that I know

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exactly. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> Because that place is 1980s and and so we're >> we have our own inherent issues that I understand. >> Very familiar with that. >> Yeah. >> I have a quick question. And how are the kids under the hightension wires going to get to Sandwich Road? Where how are

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the parents going to drive them to wait for the bus? >> Where will all the cars park? >> Who's going down the >> the kids that are in the four bedroomedroom houses? >> Oh, okay. >> Have to get to Sandwich Road to get the bus. >> I like I've said in many hearing, I'm

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not letting my kid walk up there by himself or herself. Mhm. >> Normally, like the other case that we just had has a building on near or close to Sandwich Road and a pulloff area for the vehicles of people that have

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children cuz the bus won't go down this road. So, you need to figure that out somehow. >> This is active adult, >> but you got kids in the back. >> In the back.

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>> In the back. I'm sorry. I'm thinking of the entire >> That's a long walk up front and I wouldn't let my kid walk alone. >> All right. >> You have a mind stand on Sandwich Road alone. >> Kind of interesting. It's an adult >> sub in the front, but we have kids in the back. Anyway,

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>> although I think I think as part of that the board need and the public needs to understand that while it's age restricted the major part of the development that that applies to only 80% of the units which would mean that

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the other 20% of the units could have >> more kids. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> Is it 80 or 50%? >> 80. So, the idea that there would not be any children in all the rest of the units and only in the back section would not be correct. [snorts]

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>> Uh, do you have sidewalks planned to uh go through the easement area to um include those back single family homes? >> They are not on the plan presently. We did not. >> So, there there's no sidewalk back there. >> All right. Because what I'm thinking

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about is if you have for those four bedroomedroom homes back there, what you have single family homes, you have kids, you have no sidewalk and you have gravel. So if kids want to ride bikes, etc., it seems like there's a challenge

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there. And if you have no sidewalks and you have kids who might be dropped off by the school bus at night and they're walking into this development, >> they have no sidewalk to protect them from cars coming and going

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>> and uh >> has to be addressed. >> Sure. A percentage of the uh age restricted in there are going to be really thrilled about all those rural kids riding their bicycles all around their neighborhood. There's a lot of stuff on this piece.

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And don't forget mail. You have to find an area for mail. >> Mhm. >> With parking probably. >> And is there guest parking already on here? I never even counted. >> 25 guest spaces. Yeah.

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Are you all set with your presentation? Okay. Any other questions up here? >> And is there anyone else presenting? >> No, just myself. >> So, we can go to the public. >> Mhm. >> You guys are all set. George, you good? Anybody from the public want to comment on this new development tonight? Come on

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up, Mr. Go. John Roger Augusta, 522 Old Meeting House Road. It's my understanding that these subdivisions that have driveways longer than 500 ft required to have a secondary egress. This place has got thousands of feet of road with no

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secondary egress. It's the road they're proposing with the 14 houses is 750 ft long. Never mind the one from 28 all the way to the back houses in that development. That's probably 1500 feet >> just about.

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So what can we do about that? Does 40B not allow for secondary egress >> on a subdivision this big? It's an issue that uh commonly comes up as you might imagine and um HAC has sometimes

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rarely upheld a uh denial or condition based on that issue and and more often than not uh allows a project to go forward without a secondary means of access or regress. So >> is that a fire safety hazard? Mass

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housing doesn't >> doesn't matter. I don't care. >> What you what you have to do is >> all the concerns. >> So any any pay for the board's benefit any again any condition that you want to oppose or any perceived um health or

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safety issue presented by the site plan. You want to address those issues with the applicant. But keep in mind if um you're dealing with a very heavy burden. So you want to make sure that any conditions or basis

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for denial is based on local regulations which are more restrictive than state regulations and also that they provide a they make a compelling purpose for justifying what you're doing usually based on expert testimony on that. Um, and one thing that I would caution the

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board, and I've done this before, is you want to do your best to condition the project in a way that works so that you don't end up having housing appeals committee be in effect the permitting authority for the town. So, to the extent you have a public safety issue

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that you think is arises either for residents of the town or occupants of the proposed housing, you want to vet those issues during this process. You want to get local departmental head comment on on the issues and um you want

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peer reviewers to weigh in on the issue as well >> as much as they can. >> Um again I mean the biggest issue here I see is safety and it's >> it's not being addressed. We don't have

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peer review engineers looking at this thing >> can't go there >> holistically. Um, so maybe that is a fairly good suggestion. Um, at least weigh in with uh uh you know, some of our >> Okay. >> public uh

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I don't know. I just >> Do you have any other questions? >> Just one thing that the gravel road proposed for the four bedroomedroom houses is ridiculous. You can't plow snow in a gravel road. >> It just sounds nice, but it's not practical whatsoever. Well, I mean, he won't give us the numbers, but it's

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going to throw him up around 50% uh lot coverage, which is a lot. And obviously, it's a lot. Look at the picture. >> Yeah. >> I mean, we have our limitations. >> Anybody else from the public? >> Valerie Harding, 540 Old Meeting House

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Road. I have a few questions. Is that rural over there, too? [laughter] >> Well, I I thought it was, but I don't think it's going to be. >> I think we're going to be a small city soon. Who will administer the association?

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>> It's a good question. >> And what if the association collapses? Somebody, my other question was about snow removal on gravel. All of us who live here know about snow removal.

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And uh I'm not sure I heard this right, but I think I did. The people on Bittersweet Road will only have 10 ft

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from their lot line to these homes. Is that correct? >> I believe so. >> Yeah, that's what's allowed by the zoning bylaw. >> Yeah. >> I'm sorry. Okay. Zoning bylaw only requires 10 ft, >> right? But I want to be clear because a

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lot of our bittersweet road people can't be here tonight. And so I want it on record that when they listen to this because a lot of people in town, I have had feedback are listening to these broadcasts. And so it is correct that they will only

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have 10 feet >> as a buffer. >> Yeah. They're going to be bitter because this ain't sweet. >> Yes, it's the truth. >> So, my other question is going forward for this development,

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will we have another traffic review meeting just as we did >> in the last uh two weeks prior? >> Yes, >> that's good because I think that is something that Mr. and his people should hear.

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That was It's very messy as far as traffic's concerned. So, I'm glad we will have another meeting about >> But the way we're going now, we're not going to pay any attention to the man behind the curtain, so to speak. >> Okay. Well, um, it's a lot to take in.

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I do understand that the developer and his people have invested a lot of time and a lot of money. None of us here are stupid. We all understand that it's business. but it's also affecting our lives and

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the way we've lived for a long time and it's not going to be pretty to our neighborhood. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Anybody else from the public want to come up? >> Richard Fox uh bittersweet wrote, "I just had a question about the drawing,

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excuse me, that I don't understand. What is this? And uh this this line that comes down this is presumably wider than 10 ft. >> No, >> because this must be since this is this is our property right here. So this is

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close to home. And so this does not this is clearly not the same depth as that. So I was just curious what the width is here that barrier and what is this gravel clearing? Thank you for your question. First of

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all, what is the we call it the hammerhead is the road turnout. That's a requirement under the National Fire Protection Association for minimum dimensioning for a fire apparatus to get down there, turn around, and then leave. So, that's what sets the geometry of the

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footprint you see there. For the setback, I don't have the exact number. When I was before the hearing, I was looking at the right side, and those were anywhere from 10 to 20 feet. So, I would have to get you the dimension. It may be 5 to 10 feet, I guess, just from eyeballing it against what I took off

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earlier today. >> Okay. >> We can provide that as a followup for the for the board. >> Anybody else from the public want to come up? Oop, sorry, I didn't see you. You can go next.

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>> Oh, sorry. Mike Lima, 791 Sandwich Road. Um, I just have some questions about setbacks and uh I guess let's see if I can't push this over. So, this is a little bit more closer to home as the last gentleman

447
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said. Um, we have the property that's just along actually does the mouse help me out here. Right along here is, you know, bordering our property. Um I think if I looked at the dimensions from some of the different uh documentation that

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was said the other one I think it was 22 feet from the back door of these nine that kind of border us uh to the property line and it looks like there's decks on some of them. Not sure if there's decks on all of them but that's going to push it. You know just saying I don't know. It doesn't seem like there's

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much for either fencing or maybe buffering privacy noise buffering things like that there. Um this is a huge change to all of our lives. Um been here about 27 years. Um you know

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it's kind of uh joining backyards with a bunch of people I guess in a way. So not that I'm against talking to people or whatever but it's just going to be a big change. And I I would like to think we can come up with some type of privacy fencing or maybe uh or including some

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approves or some type of noise buffer as well to go along that to kind of separate what's this new development from, you know, our lives. Um that's all I got. Thank you. Oh, one other thing. I'm sorry. Um I think this goes back to the other project you were talking

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about, uh where there's a divot and what have you. I think this is something more over time probably in this area um the farm, you know, would shed water off into our area. There's a pretty good at least a two or three foot gullet that

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cuts through in through there. So, I'm curious how they're going to maybe [snorts] something to look at in the future that there's there's going to be a a wall or something's going to be needed in in that little area there because it is a pretty significant V down type thing that borders.

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Yeah, that's all I got. >> Is it a wetland? >> Yeah, >> excuse me. >> That's a wetland there. >> Well, I don't know if it's a wetland. It was It was pretty much because of the roof of the barn and their paddic areas, they were shedding all that water to that. They kind of took a bobcat and

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built a river. >> Oh. Oh. >> And it came there and over time it created there was there was another one that kind of got fixed. >> But that one there has been there for a lot of years and it's pretty significant. Water doesn't shed out there anymore since the farm's been, >> you know, kind of shut down.

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>> Um, it's not as bad as it was, but it still has that gull, you know, gully there, what have you. And it's going to be an issue with building how you're going to, you know, kind of border that to the property. Can I [snorts] ask questions while he's still up there? Are you asking the developer if there's

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going to be some kind of wall there, retaining wall, or you just >> I I assume he's going to have to do something there or it's going to kind of be awkward blending in. >> I don't see I don't see it on the plan is why I'm asking you. It's not I don't see anything on the plan.

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>> Yeah, it's not nothing. >> No, it just it's just going to drop off. Well, they can't shed water on you. [snorts] >> Well, the way it's construed, it's kind of what it is type of thing. So, yeah, I just want to direct water to another >> because as you say, it is it isn't

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doesn't seem to be on the plan or, you know, a lot of stuff there that's showing >> how it's going to, you know, look in the end. Uh, I know we went for a walk through last year kind of through there. was a little it's hard to see because there's a lot of different things everywhere, whatever. But, um, you're

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all welcome to come by my home and take a walk down to take a look at different things that way if it helps you with understanding what what it what it's going to look like or what it is. Um, I know >> Would you let our peer engineer work on your property? >> Absolutely. I

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I think I think the more >> it needs to be looked at at the minimum >> because this is going to affect our lives, my life, all our neighbors lives forever. Once this is done, it's done. And if it's not taken care of now, >> generational

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and way beyond my lifetime, that's for sure. >> But uh yeah, that that's all I got. No, that's good to know. Thank you. Thank you very much. Appreciate it. >> Thanks. You might want to designate time too in a future meeting that as I see the

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engineer taking notes, maybe they can reply to us some of the comments. >> I'm hoping he's going to do some homework and the next meeting we'll tackle some of these questions. Yeah. Want to come up? >> Yeah. >> Did you know about that gully? >> I wasn't familiar with runoff from the

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stable, but I I could just address it in one sentence to address the board. I think we can say uh the high degree of confidence that the development plan actually intercepts any runoff that might be coming from the

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old stable building as it extends. I think what Mr. Lim is saying is this extends out in here somewhere in here. The stable building's up in here. >> And so this cuts it off. The roadway cuts off that that runoff. the building roofs are being collected and uh

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conveyed through a closed drainage system. So, I think I could say with some confidence that we could actually reduce the amount of runoff that you're seeing go to the property, but we're more than happy to look at it in a little more detail. >> He's also addressing the slope part of it, too. >> Yeah, [clears throat] I understand. I just looked at the grading plan. It

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appears we're grading it correctly, but I'll go back and check. >> Thank you. >> And didn't he say it doesn't flow as much now that the farm is closed? >> Yes. probably has a hole. >> Why would that be? >> Probably has a hole in the roof. >> Who knows? >> Hot horse water.

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>> It might. I don't know. >> Go ahead. >> A lot of different uh over time moving of piles of this there. There used to be a big pond there at one point that they dug. Um there used to be, you know, 20 foot. I'm sorry.

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>> Okay. Go ahead, ma'am. Sorry we interrupted you. >> That's okay. >> I interrupted you. >> Um Mindy Richellin, 66 Bittersweet Road. Um I just want to echo some of the other comments. Um I really hope that there can be a way that like this this buffer

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issue which just looks incredibly narrow which seems to be you know 5 to 10 ft even on that side. >> But it's a rural road. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> Yeah. >> But could be improved. Um I it's going to be a huge change. It's

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going to impact us. It's going to impact everyone on Bittersweet Road >> for sure. Now, when I first saw that they were putting these units in, I no bitterswe people were here for the first hearing. >> Yeah. >> And I'm glad >> that you found out. >> Currently, it's all trees. >> Kind of like a bonus.

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>> It's all trees. Yes, I know. >> Thanks. >> Thank you. >> Anybody else from the public? >> Richard. >> Richard. Richard Johnson, landscape architect, one Ambitz Avenue. I'm a little

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concerned about the open lawn panels being undefined um except by sidewalks and I would love to see some trees at the edge of the sidewalk. I realize there the center of those lawn panels are

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underground utilities or reserve areas. So, you can't plant trees in the middle of it, but some sort of street tree around the edge of that area and the um seven units in the middle of that um they have no landscaping at all, those

475
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seven units, which seems um >> strange. In certainly has no curb appeal to have no landscaping. Um, so some some effort at landscaping in that area I think would improve the uh project. Just my opinion.

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>> Great. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Anybody else have any further questions up here? >> So sorry, I just have one for the engineer. Can you address the entrance to the development? What the width of

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the roadway or the entrance or whatever it is? folks coming in off of Sandwich Road and exiting onto Sandwich Road. >> May be easier to see on the uh engineering plan. Here we go. >> Roadway width is 20 ft. You can see it

478
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in the dimensioning here. >> There we go. And obviously it's two-way traffic to come in and out, but that's the current design of it. >> How you going to deal with the school kids? Well, this testimony I just heard this evening and we'll be looking at that, sir. [laughter]

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>> And you're meeting the surprise to you. >> This site distance study has been performed. >> Yeah. >> And I believe that's been submitted as part of the packet. >> Thank you. >> And that site distance is going to be affected by the school bus that's going to be parked right up the street from

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you. I'm sure the traffic engineer will be able to address that when he's here. Follow on hearing. >> See, Mike, >> when you go, can you um grab some stats like on the the porch dimensions? Are

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there sheds in these units? >> My my brief review of the architectural plans, they're not necessarily sheds. They're not they're not like say an accessory shed or anything like that. units are self-contained. So if there's any storage, it's within the unit. >> What about the people with all the kids?

482
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What are they going to do with their bikes and stuff? >> That programming for that area is allows for a little more flexibility because it's not as dense as the core development. >> Can you show on a plan where a shed could go >> for the single family area?

483
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>> Yeah, because I mean they're going to have four bedrooms that you know. >> Sure. >> Yeah, >> we could do I mean, there's going to be bikes. There's going to be, you know, >> soccer nets, all sorts of stuff. >> Yeah. >> And do the other dwellings have any kind of storage

484
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>> within the unit itself? I don't have the unit floor plans to be able to say where storage. No, there's no like dedicated community storage >> for the for the development. >> Some of those are going to have kids. >> Do don't these have basements?

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>> Yes. >> Yes. I'm seeing stairs going down on the >> Yeah, as I had said before the >> the bulkheads. >> There's some bulkheads, but there's also we have some walkouts on the 15 units that are on the So, those will absolutely >> looking west actually kind of

486
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>> down. >> Yeah. So, just try to get some dimensions if you could on any of those kind of things >> on the dimensioning. So, I understand madam chair for shed positioning >> decks any of that any extra you know. >> Mhm.

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>> What I mean? Sure. >> Elevation. I mean, uh, you want ridge? >> Yeah. >> Ridge height, too. Yeah. I haven't I don't know. >> The height of the buildings. >> Yeah. Yeah. Okay. >> Anybody else have any >> other than those sheds might bring this place up over 50% coverage?

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>> No. 60. Anybody else have any other You guys all set over here? >> Can I? >> Yeah, go ahead. >> Uh, because I'm just looking back at the original submission. These are all I don't see any notation as to how

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you're cladding these buildings. I'm not sure you're going to know this either, but what is it? This is all shingle cladded. What is this? Hopefully not vinyl. >> I can't testify to that, Mr. Petruchi. I'm not the architect >> architect some night, you know.

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>> Yeah, if there's a subsequent discussion architecturally >> do it another anyway. So just to the developer, it would be nice to see that on a plan at least so that everybody knows what we're supposed to be getting. I think they're I mean I think they're pretty nice designs

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>> architecturally just like know how they >> Hardy planks in the beginning, didn't we? >> I think >> I think we did too. >> I believe so. >> Anyway, just so we have that note. >> So for next meeting, Lorine, what do we have?

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Uh so we were looking at um traffic presentation for the next hearing. I guess the question will be um we were also intending to have our peer be present but I think given this conversation that we need to have about

493
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what the peers responsibilities are and if they're willing to amend their contracts. I don't know what if if that's going to impact somebody coming to the next meeting or not. I don't I don't know what the turnaround time

494
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would be to get that those issues resolved about what their concerns are and whether the pier sends a reply and who's going to make a determination about what is or is not okay now. >> So, is there value in having a meeting

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in two weeks if we're not going to have new information? Well, I think we were looking for the next meeting to be August 27 to get time that type of thing. But >> okay, that's >> I I think that Madam Chair, I think the question is very important. I mean, this

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is I'm concerned about the pier and I'm concerned about what appears to be aggressive, to use our attorney's words. Um, and I'm concerned that we can keep moving along in the time period that's

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been allowed for this. I don't how much do we know how much time is left on this? >> Uh, so >> not enough. >> Yeah. >> Well, they they were generous to give us the 180 days. >> So, we have that's all I care about. We have that. All right. That's all. Okay. That's all. But I think, you know, we do

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need to have those discussions with the peer engineer because >> we've used peer engineers in the past. Uh there's not been a single occasion where they haven't gone out to the site. Uh part of their assessment is to

499
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obviously look at the site and understand the site so that they're understanding the context. And if you tied their hands and you say, "Well, you can only use these pieces that we give you," it it seems to sort of hamper

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the advice they can give this board. >> It's about professionals >> and you know, this board is not comprised of engineers. So, we have the peer for the purpose of giving us their level of expertise and their understanding as they review your plans

501
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and the site. So that may well be a problem. >> We did walk the site. The board did walk the site, but we had a a person that didn't know where the roads were. It was a real estate agent, and we didn't

502
02:20:42.479 --> 02:20:58.640
really learn. I didn't learn much. We had some stakes. He didn't really know what the roads were. It was probably one of the worst site visits I've ever had informationwise. And um I wish you were there. you would have helped us [laughter]

503
02:20:58.640 --> 02:21:15.120
but um so that's we're concerned you know as a board >> so anyway so we're August 27th that's what you >> that would be our next meeting date >> and that gives us time to well I'd recommend a game plan uh Suzanne is

504
02:21:15.120 --> 02:21:31.040
>> okay >> I'm I'm sure Naren sent it out or Ashley uh the revised plan set should go out to the department heads >> because you got to kind of redo the whole thing they need to look at it and comment. >> Got to do it all over again. >> Uh I would schedule time for the for the

505
02:21:31.040 --> 02:21:48.800
engineer to respond to the comments that he received from the public. >> Yeah. >> At that at that August 27 >> Yes. >> uh meeting. And if it's okay with the board, I I'd recommend Norin kind of coordinate with the peer reviewers the review of the objections, see if

506
02:21:48.800 --> 02:22:04.880
maybe they can work that out. >> Yeah. >> And get that, you know, underway. Hopefully. Yeah. Yeah, >> being optimistic they should be able to work everything out. >> Get an agreement from the applicant. Yeah, we we do agree to that. Um and get their work underway so that then you can

507
02:22:04.880 --> 02:22:22.240
have that in the August 27th meeting, too. >> Can I ask? >> And if if you end up with an objection that is not resolvable, then take that up at the August 27th meeting. >> Okay, that's that's Madam Chair, that's my question. this they've set up something that creates issues because

508
02:22:22.240 --> 02:22:39.760
this is what peer engineers do here and if we can't get the information we need to make a decision how can we come to a decision if we can't get all the information we need from our experts >> going to have to seek an extension right >> I would have to do that I don't I'm reading through all the objections here

509
02:22:39.760 --> 02:22:57.680
and again I'm not an attorney but >> what happens we don't come to There's something that hasn't been agreed to by August 27th, address it then. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> I've kind Well, first of all, first of all, I don't I'm sorry. >> The decision deadline is not August.

510
02:22:57.680 --> 02:23:14.560
>> I come from corporate life and we don't wait till we get there and there's a problem. We try and decide what could be the problem. How do we get there? And what do we do about it when we get there? So, I don't know. I as I sit there as a member, I don't know what's going to happen if there is an objection

511
02:23:14.560 --> 02:23:30.000
and how do we resolve it? I'm not hearing that. >> We just wait till we get to August 27th and see what happens and >> address that as a board. Yes. >> So I I think you know the the scheduling of the peer attending the next meeting will be dependent on whether

512
02:23:30.000 --> 02:23:45.600
>> the negotiation or >> there's an agreement on the review and if there's not then the peer won't attend that meeting. >> Okay. So, we um we're just going to continue with no traffic because we don't

513
02:23:45.600 --> 02:24:01.200
>> Well, I think we would expect their traffic professional to attend the next meeting and discuss their findings. >> Okay. >> And then if we're able to come to an agreement, we could also have our peer attend. If we can't, we won't have our

514
02:24:01.200 --> 02:24:17.040
peer attend and we'll have to talk further. >> Can we do architectural? Can we do more on on the 27th? And >> well, he's going to address I I think a lot of the issues we gave him quite a bit of homework. >> You know, I think

515
02:24:17.040 --> 02:24:34.319
>> I'm still bothered by the fact that I don't see any peer review, any traffic study looking at these two projects holistically. It's just it's going to bother me forever. and and I I see this thing

516
02:24:34.319 --> 02:24:52.720
putting us behind every week and and >> I mean I'd like to work well enough with the applicant uh no matter how the applicant feels about the community right now, but this is putting a real damper on everything

517
02:24:52.720 --> 02:25:10.720
right now as far as I'm concerned. Anyway, >> just uh to be clear, what I'm hearing from the ward is you'd like us to have our traffic engineer as well as Mr. Hartnett to discuss civil and traffic at the next hearing and then we'll play it by ear whether your peer consultants are

518
02:25:10.720 --> 02:25:30.960
are here to present their findings as well. But we'll we'll be prepared with both of our consultants as well as William and myself. >> Thank you. >> Want to be a motion? 827 >> 827 >> move to continue 06625 Sandwich Road

519
02:25:30.960 --> 02:25:47.600
Housing LLC 0 Sandwich Road into August 27th at 6 p.m. >> Second. >> We have a motion in a second. You're all set for that date. >> Yes. Thank you. >> Everybody up is good. All those in favor? >> Oppos? None.

520
02:25:47.600 --> 02:26:08.240
>> Thank you all for coming out. >> That's vote right. Oh, >> oh, you didn't read it. >> Did you read the >> You'll get it. >> Oh,

521
02:26:08.240 --> 02:26:32.399
>> We get to live 30. >> Mine just came. >> Yeah, let's go. >> All right. What are we doing, Madam Chair? >> Good for meeting a couple things. >> Thank you guys for coming. >> Don't be strangers when you

522
02:26:32.399 --> 02:26:50.880
>> Okay. Are we doing Wait, she's talking. Give her a sec. >> Ash, will you send us that letter >> of the pier that that guy sent? Will you send us all a copy? >> It went out. It did go out. >> Huh? >> It went out. >> Can you do it again?

523
02:26:50.880 --> 02:27:08.560
>> Sure. Frank didn't find his. I I printed mine. Now I can't find it. >> I didn't have one. >> Oh, I thought it came out this afternoon. >> It came out like yesterday or today. >> Will you just do it again for Oh, are you >> enough time to highlight? >> Yeah. Will you throw it to us? >> I'm going to trial. I'm in trial all

524
02:27:08.560 --> 02:27:25.280
>> Are we doing any minute? >> Uh, do you folks have any questions for Mr. Poochie before he leaves? >> George, you good? >> I am. Of course. Yep. Do you have any questions for me or >> going to hit the road? Try to get off the clock. But >> that was crazy. >> Um, I just want to say, George, I'm very

525
02:27:25.280 --> 02:27:39.840
glad that you're here. >> Yes, we're very much glad to be here. >> Thank you very much. >> I I always go where I'm wanted. [laughter] >> You're not going home, huh? Not going home tonight. I enjoyed. [laughter] >> See you. Have a safe trip.

526
02:27:39.840 --> 02:27:55.520
>> You can smile now. You're off the clock. We're still on. >> I'm not off the clock. I I'm portal to portal. >> [laughter] >> Are we doing renegotiate the minutes for June 25th? >> I'll make a motion. Is everybody read June 25th? >> Uh, yes.

527
02:27:55.520 --> 02:28:12.960
>> I'll make a motion to approve June 25th. >> Second. [snorts] >> We have a motion in a second. All those in favor? >> I >> oppose? None. Board discussion. >> Yeah. On a note, I'd like to say that I hope whoever this is Ashley's last night of minutes. I hope u whoever does it is

528
02:28:12.960 --> 02:28:28.479
80% as good as she is. >> That would be impossible. is phenomenal. >> And uh I'd settle for it. You know, you know, I'm an easygoing guy. >> You are. >> Yes. Ash, we're gonna miss you. >> Yeah, we are going to miss you here.

529
02:28:28.479 --> 02:28:43.920
>> Board updates. We're going to be sad. >> Um I just uh not updates or whatever. Uh the um last workshop we had, I the the cover sheet that Jim did, we've never really dealt with it. I mean, other than

530
02:28:43.920 --> 02:29:01.920
uh Norine sending it out and uh was it better job than I could have done and uh I I think we should be moving it forward. >> Well, it's true. >> And I have too. Yeah, >> because I have I want to get that one behind me because I have other things for our next coming upcoming uh

531
02:29:01.920 --> 02:29:19.193
>> uh sorry. >> Yeah. Which is in in what? October. >> October. >> Yeah, >> October. >> Cuz I got some more complaints just so you know. >> Okay. Well, >> no, really. Ashley, you don't have to attend that either, right? >> Tony just put on his surprise face.

532
02:29:19.193 --> 02:29:34.720
[laughter] >> Okay. Um, future agenda items. >> Uh, so I'll just bring it to the board and the public's notice that fall town meeting will be Monday, October 26th this year, which is early, and that is

533
02:29:34.720 --> 02:29:49.920
the date that the select board has now established. >> Great. Town meeting. Do you have to go to one of those meetings again? >> Oh, yeah. We go whenever it is. If we can I can find out. I didn't have much left last time. >> So, the they have scheduled the

534
02:29:49.920 --> 02:30:05.439
approximate week that the precinct meetings will be held. So, perhaps >> yours can just not be on a Thursday. >> No, I Yeah. No, >> I think you're always on Thursdays, aren't you? >> Uh huh. >> Aren't you always on Thursday? >> Yeah, it has been that way. And I like I

535
02:30:05.439 --> 02:30:22.240
said, I've missed a lot of them and I just I can't do that. Okay. >> Hopefully we won't I have this important non-paying job. >> All right, everybody's good. >> Yes. >> Our next meeting is July 23rd at 6 and Mark. >> Oh, motion to adjourn. Madam Chair, I'm

536
02:30:22.240 --> 02:30:40.469
hungry. >> Come on, Scott. Second it for me. There we go. We have a motion and a second. All those in favor? I >> [music]