##VIDEO ID:lnsvetKWkzg## [Music] all right welcome to the zoning board of appeals please silence all cell phones and note that this meeting is being taken by fctv if there's any private party recording this hearing please step up to the podium and request permission and I'll introduce the staff and the board on my far right is Mark fineran uh next in is Scott Peterson to my right is Frank Duffy the clerk my name is Suzanne murum chair my left is James Mo Vice chair Tony Puchi and Associate we have Norine Stockman our zoning administrator and Ashley Dello an office assistant the zoning board of appeals is charged with applying the state zoning statutes as well as the town zoning bylaws in reviewing and voting on each application all decisions are made through the public hearing process our goal is to hear testimony from the applicants and the public and to allow a full and fair discussion of the project prior to closing the hearing and reaching a decision number one to begin each hearing the clerk will read the public announcement for each hearing and read pertinent information from the file two the applicant or the applicant's representative will then have 15 minutes to make a presentation time may be extended by a vote of the board three the board will then question the applicant and four the public will be invited to comment comment should be limited to 2 minutes and be strictly related to The Proposal all members of the public wishing to speak should be wait to be recognized by the chair and should come to the podium please state your name and address for the record and speak into the microphone it will amplify your voice and record audio for the fctv viewers and we also have a a at the beginning of each hearing if anyone wants to make a public comment not on anything that's on tonight's agenda but you're welcome to come up and have a public comment anybody want to come up and we'll start our hearings I'm going to move one out of order if anyone has an agenda it's on 118-18 blue flag development just cuz it's I it may be quick so I think we'll move move along do we need a vote on that yeah Move Motion I'll second all right Motion in a second did you guys get that all those in favor I oppose none okay so blue flag mam chair I'm going to recuse myself from this case because I particip IP at as Town Council in the permitting with the town manager and the and the board of Selectmen so point someone to sit in for Tony you're in great thank you I'm in hi hi good evening uh Madam chair members of the board my name is Ian Kart I'm uh from the law firm not mcclinon and fish in Boston and I'm Council for the applicant so we're here today because the the initial special permit for the autoc camp Campground contained some conditions relative to Staffing at certain occupancy levels you know below 30% required less Staffing and above 30% occupancy required more Staffing but so I so I understand that the condition was put in there because it was unclear how much Staffing was going to be available at the time but since that time we always have a staff person there so whenever there's a a guest at the auto Camp somebody from the staff is is on site to manage that so there's no you know there's no I think it was 6:00 a.m. to to 10: p.m. while someone was there someone will always be there when someone's on site so under condition four of the special permit autoc Camp is required to appear before the board and give an update on the occupancy and just just you know I think it was a mechanism just to let the board know that we were complying with the with the Staffing requir re Ms under the conditions but as we see it I should also mention that Jen Bloom from the general manager from autocamp is also here with me so if you have any questions about the operation he can he can do that but at the end of the day we always have somebody there when they are guests so I think that should satisfy you know the board's concerns about occupancy and Staffing condition for got it anybody have any questions up here not I so if if there's no one staying at the camp you don't have anybody there because you just said three times that if somebody's there you have somebody there so if nobody is staying there is there anybody on site so you'll have to come up you got I'm sorry hi I'm danan Blum the general manager so um in the off season right now it's very quiet so during the mo from Monday through Friday most weeks from January through March were closed so we'll have maintenance people there during the day but there's nobody there at night we close the front gate and it's it's closed um on the weekends we'll have somebody when there's guests there we'll have somebody's staff 24 hours a day in the lobby um yeah yeah thank you no further questions you all set um actually uh I drove by this week and didn't I see a sign in the entrance it said special event you know what what was special about this week so they so I don't know if it's a great idea but they put a sign the maintenance people are there they don't want people just driving in so they have the gate open a little bit and they just put a sign just to keep just uh people from people from driving through while they're while they're there and they're not really monitoring things but there's no special event going on need to get a keep outs sign it kept you out Mark didn't it I I had no interest in going in any questions down this end what is the specific relief that they're asking for tonight what is the specific relief was the question oh there's no relief it's just a it's just a report to the board you know pursuant to the the special permit and if I think also uh before the board um you were asking them to come back essentially annually so what should also be before the board is if you find that they're in compliance and we do have a reply from Board of Health and the police department that theyve found no issues that I think it would be reasonable for the board to remove the annual requirement for them to return that was going to be my next statement question we'd be happy to report in writing or in instead of that if that's and you're still going before the Board of Health every year so someone's covering it yes you have anything Tony I'm not sure I I understand if the board put this in as a condition it was just a conditional condition that would only last for a short period of time was there a particular reason why because the board wasn't sure how you were going to manage this and why should we not just because nothing bad has happened so far why should we not continue this I it's I know it's a pain in the neck but why should we not continue this well I suppose our our um solution that would be to submit a report in writing about the occupancy and the Staffing and you know we could communicate I suppose outside of a a board meeting you know we can but we can submit official documents to the board so that be to not report at all going forward uh or report it uh uh in writing once per year that's all I wanted to so I guess I would also perhaps help out maybe because I don't think you were on the board at the time this went through this was brand new there had formerly been uh Campground there but this was you know in keeping but a pretty different use and so because nothing had actually happened on the site the board was trying to build in conditions so that we would make sure we could kind of check and make sure everything was fine and they did have a few wrinkles initially with the Board of Health which is actually obviously the board of Health's jurisdiction but I think the intent was where it was so new knew we wanted to make sure we capture something if there was a problem when they first opened but they've been what 2 years now give a take two years I'm sorry apologies I'll let you in I think this is our I think it's at least four four years anyway so I guess the only reason why I brought it up was we had a grade unknown before us and now they're regular operating business so so no complaints from the neighborhood so my Rec Madam chair if I may uh my re to this issue previous there were numerous comments from abutters in the past right primarily concerning enforcement issues and we the board referred them to the enforcement agent to deal with those but I think they were somewhat considered which why we were not willing to wave the condition at that time um if there's no issues of enforcement I don't have a problem that's require him to come back I just would want to make sure that the board has some ability to rec call them if we start having problems with the operation they do report to the Board of Health still and the uh complaints were in the summertime obviously as well as the hearing so one wouldn't expect to hear any complaints this evening anyway well the issue too and I don't mean to prolong this but the issue too is there is a fence that separates the residential homes on the other side of it from this site um and so it could be prone if it's not managed prop I'm not saying it's not we not managed properly to be an issue to those folks behind it um I as one member I don't have a problem with them not reporting every year but if there should be an every couple year threee report I don't know or if we get significant we through the zoning administrator I would suggest we get complaints or so on concerning the management operations of this condition as long as the board I think reserves the right to bring the applicant back just to address issues I don't have a problem I don't necessarily think we need to make them appear every year as long as the reports are actually being submitted there's no complaints zoning complaints but that's a triggering mechanism to your point no no complaints that they're continuing to file all the reports in a timely fashion and okay I just wanted to understand the basis anybody from the public want to speak on the blamping over in Missippi everybody's all set you want to make a motion oh well I thought you were kind of wrapping it up that's why I'm wrapping it up I just was want a little board discussion I uh oh was there further discussion no no no no no no I just wanted a discussion about whether or not they wanted what the board's appetite was just do we want to let I feel we're fine myself I feel if we have an issue we can go through the Board of Health and and ask them we can still he's still going to do a written report fair enough well that was an option he offered versus coming here so it was either come here not come here at all not report at all uh come here once per year or have a written report once per year or do nothing so you have a couple options and I don't think he needs as I sit here right now it's a good record I don't see that he has to come here every year yeah I agree agre I'll make a motion that the applicant does not have to report to us in person every year but we would like a report so just a short perhaps once per year January of each year they send us a written update yeah does that sound good yes a second for me second for friendly Amendment sure the board reserves the right to requested it to have it in person meeting everybody's got the motion and we have a second second all those in favor I oppose none great thanks thank you very much okay next up we have 10824 on 76 man Road Murray trustee they don't do it being picked on Madam chair before I read the uh public notice and the other information I sat out in the audience during that last uh discussion about the auto camp and the noise of that um heating element up there kind of drowns out your conversation it's kind of hard to hear you out there okay so just be aware of that here's the debate addressed gre's on it okay so this is um hearing 108 of 24 Suzanne Murray trustee applied to the zoning board of appeals for a special permit pursuant to sections 240 10- 10.2 a and 240 11.3 A4 the code of Falmouth to raise and rebuild the existing non-conforming single family dwelling located at 76 manant Road East bouth Massachusetts the um property is in a resident is in a residential SE zoning District the um appropriate sections of the zoning bylaw are as reported in the notice section 24010 point2 A 240 111.3 A4 to raise and rebuild the existing non-conforming non-conforming single family dwelling the flood zone it's in a e14 it's also in a velocity Zone 15 has no record of previous zoning decisions on the property the lot is 6,583 Ft in a zoning District that currently requires a minimum of 40,000 square ft there is 80 ft of Frontage uh in the zoning District which requires 100 feet of Frontage it's a public right of way that's mon on road and also um uh the Side Road there is is um the public road current lot coverage by structure is 22.6% it will be reduced to 20.2% the limit is 20 so special perit is needed for the excess lck coverage by Structure Parking and Paving is 31% the increased to 35.7% the limit is 40 um there's the the structure is non-conforming because of a the setback to the street where it's 19 ft 25 ft is required the height of the building is 21.6 ft and it will be increased the proposal is to increase it to 34t 10 and 3/4 in pretty close to the 35 ft limit engineering has given us a re uh referral for requesting a driveway permit for any work that affects the public way they want us to be alert to storm water runoff and uh the the um boorder of Health has no issues at this time there's a SE sufficient septic for a four-bedroom the Conservation Commission has issued an order of condition on November 13 2024 with an approval the water department wants the meter in the home um The Building Commissioner has in his referral required a height certificate because of the fact that the building is going so close to the maximum allowed by zoning Fire Department has no issues the assessors have no issue and that's it oh that we have no letters of opposition or support on file take it away attorney Clow thank you very much Madam chair members of the board for the record Kevin Clower I am an attorney here in town and I am before you representing Sue and Eric Murray the owners of 76 manat Road uh Mrs Murray is here with us this evening uh they are seeking permission to raise and rebuild the existing non-conforming dwelling and Associated structures on this site and replace it with a single family home 76 man is located at the southern Terminus of maravista Avenue uh just east of Bristol Beach the lot as was noted by Mr Duffy is 6563 square feet in a residential SE zoning district and the majority of the lot is in an ae14 flood zone presently there's a five bedroom single family dwelling with a detached garage the uh overall footprint by structures is 1,4 182 squ ft uh the existing structures are non-conforming the dwelling is non-conforming to front yard setback being 20.3 ft where 25 is required the garage is non-conforming to the sidey yard set back to the north being uh 4 feet where 10 is required it's also non-conforming to lot coverage by structures being 22.6% in the district where 20% is allowed by right and up to 25 by special permit but there is no special permit of record on this property uh This House was built approximately 1934 but it is not in the historic district or on the town's list of historically significant structures so the applicants recently purchased this property uh and are looking to make this their permanent residents now um but the house is in need of some significant repair both cosmetically and structurally given its location in a flood zone as I said in ae14 the scope of repairs really necessitates compliance with flood zone standards it'll it'll constitute what's considered a substantial Improvement under uh both our zoning bylaw and the FEMA regulations uh that will require an elevation of the structure so we must raise the existing structure and rebuild new in compliance with those requirements and that requirement specifically is that all habitable space and Mechanicals be located at least one foot above the flood zone elevation so in this CA case in ae14 it requires the first floor of habitable space be at elevation 15 which is approximately 8 ft above grade The applicant's Proposal reduces the Clutter on the lot it eliminates the existing uh detached G uh detached garage uh there will be a garage included as part of the primary dwelling which also reduces the need for outdoor parking reduces the number of bedrooms uh currently there's five it's being reduced to four with a new four bedroom Title 5 system to be installed the existing non-conformities are all effectively eliminated the side yard set back to the north is eliminated as it's improving from 4.1 ft to 10.3 ft the front yard setback to manot is uh eliminated as a non-conformity it's going from 20.3 to 26.9 Ft and it's also 28.3 ft to marav Vista on the western side the lot coverage by structure is being reduced from 22.6% down to 20.2% this amount is allowable by special permit it's an improvement over the existing uh percentage and and with the issuance of the special permit is effectively eliminated as a non-conformity and lastly and perhaps most importantly given this location it will comply with the femur requirements given the existing non-conformities this does require a special permit pursuing 24102 a and 241 111.3 A4 of your zoning bylaw under 24102 a pre-existing non-conforming structures may be changed by special permit provided they're not substantially more detrimental than what exists you're asked to consider the standards of 240 12.1 and whether or not the alteration creates any new dimensional non-conformities and pairs Us in vistors and reasonably conforms to the neighborhood here there's no new non-conformities created all of the existing non-conformities are improved and eliminated many of those requirements I just described are overlapped in 240 111.3 A4 that section allows for um lot coverage by structure to exceed 20% in the RC zoning District but does require a special permit there the board is asked to consider the size and height of the structure in relation to the neighborhood the effects of Shadow the impacts of views and Vistas from public ways and the effect of nitrogen on Coastal embayments I thought I was getting Applause I was very excited wait till the end please uh the the proposed house is larger than what exists and as proposed would be among the more prominent in the area but while taller ironically it's below the average footprint in Gross floor area certainly in character with homes along minat the applicant is certainly agreeable to a height certification as was noted in the building referral there's limited given this location and and the citing of it there's limited impacts of shadowing or used investors in public ways and it's actually cited specifically to minimize impacts on nearby homes certainly an improvement over the existing conditions there's no negative effect on nitrogen in fact it's an improvement as there's a reduction in the number of bedrooms and flow uh for the proposal the project represents a significant improvement over the existing conditions the existing non-conformities as I mentioned are all improved and eliminated again front yard setback back is eliminated it's conforming to both maravista and manot the sidey yard set back to the north is eliminated as a non-conformity lock coverage by structures both reduced and eliminated as a non-conformity with the ISS of a special permit and this will comply with the flood zone requirements there's no new dimensional non-conformities no adverse effects and certainly none would overbalance the benefits that have outlined there's nothing about this proposal substantially more detrimental than what exists I believe this meets all the standards of 24 10.2 a as well as 24 111.3 a 4 and 24012 24121 e for these reasons I would ask that the board Grant the special permit and I would of course be happy to address any questions you might have at this time Tony I'm going to go to the left um want to start off sure where you like um I I I I think it's a f a wonderful change fit in beautifully I just have really one question when I was walking around the side I saw some Stakes the back back back right corner that appeared to say Spar what and I couldn't find that on the is is a spar being put in or they they might put a hot tub on the patio but that's not considered a structure for those purpose of the zoning bylaw yeah I just didn't understand what it was other than that I have no other questions matter CH attorney CL no looks like a very nice uh project you're eliminating all the non-conformities bringing it into harmony with the special permit as you indicated uh the only concern I had is 34 ft 10 and 3/4 in but that can be cond conditioned and I'm not going to penalize somebody because they're coming into flood zone compliance so I mean when when you got to go up 8 ft to start it it it makes it difficult well the others given there's been no opposition U I think it fits in rather well with the neighborhood so thank you no questions Frank you have any questions no Scott could you just pull up the uh front elevation attorney Clower please um the flood elevation front oh front elevation yes must have been all that Applause that right right to my right to my head unfortunately so this was looking from the south this is looking from the West so this is looking at it from U marav Vista and this is looking at it from manat no uh as uh Mr Morris mentioned getting rid of the non-conformities it's a it's a nice upgrade to what's you have there so uh no further questions it's good project I was just wondering this was when this was coming I drive by every day there's been Stakes there for yeah it seems at least a year um and uh it certainly need some uh freshening up I think I I I was looking at it because I drove by today and I actually think that the architecture here works really well with the architecture just across stre across Mar Vista um I I think it's going to look real nice once that's done thank W going to take much to make it look better than what there now I have a question um how are you reducing the flow because we're going from five bedrooms down to four so but there's a room isn't there another room over the garage or something like that now so the the assessors have this as a five-bedroom home and we're going down to a four-bedroom home okay so that's it okay anybody else have any questions before I go to the public there was a there was a the bedroom in the existing garage right yeah well there's um being torn down yep that's coming down so so that's how you're going from we have um if we look at the yeah this is the garage there's a room in the garage here so if you count bedrooms on the existing plan there's a master one here two three four and then this is a fifth that constitutes a bedroom by by Title Five standards so it's going from five down to four we're only proposing four do we have to make that door wider on that garage thing that that's the existing that's the one that's going away that's right okay all right is anybody from the public have any comments on this project by a group The Applause I didn't get me anyway anybody want to make a motion up here motion to close close motion to close I'll second any discussion before we close all those in favor of closing I oppose none motion to approve the conditions second we have a motion to approve and a second any discussion all those in favor I oppose none findings findings findings let's do them okay we have an existing preexist an existing non-conforming structure the proposed structure will uh not be substantially more detrimental to the neighborhood than existing structures or uses the proposed structure will less and actually eliminate uh zoning non-conformities it will not impair views or Vistas and it reasonably conforms to the average Dimensions found in the neighborhood with respect to lot coverage by structure 20% is the zoning require zoning maximum but 25% is allowed by special permit we find that the size height of the structure proposed structure relates to Neighborhood averages um the there's no adverse effect on neighborhood property from Sha Shadows uh there's no reported impacts on views or Vistas from the public way and the Board of Health has advised us that they have approved the septic system and are satisfied with the effect of nitrogen on Coastal ements respect to the conditions for a special permit we determine that the site is adequate for the proposed use the site is suitable for the proposed use there's no evidence of negative impact on traffic flow and safety uh there's no evidence of neighborhood visual character views or Vistas there's adequate sewage disposal provided in the plans there's adequate utilities and there's no adverse effect on affordable housing no letters in opposition and no opposition at the public hearing also the maximum height is 35 ft this is proposed to be 34 10 and 3/4 in the Building Commissioner in his referral requests a height certificate which I think probably requires an engineer m and there was a comp sheet yes did he have that comp sheet there was yeah concom has ordered a approval in order of conditions uh the the proposed Improvement will bring the structure in compliance with FEMA flood zone compliance special permit will bring the property into compliance with the lot coverage regulations what's the only other addition I have Madam chairman yeah conditions um all boards we have conservation quite a big one in there per plans per plans height CER framing height certification driveway permit um work hours work hours no other structures on the lot well I guess yes no they can't I would just ask if we could do that um without without approval from the board or administratively because we're only at 20.2 okay strike that one anybody else have any other conditions Norine you think of anything uh so I guess I would just suggest uh they are showing a shell driveway and I guess the question is if that works to be paved if there would be some issue with total lot coverage so I had put a note just recommending that the shell portion of the driveway stay as a prvious driveway so that they don't exceed their lot total lot coverage by Structure Parking Cav that's not covered under per plan just want to make a side note kind of I just think it's a value just to reinforce agree yep add that as you could add that as a finding just to say hey this is how we came to the lot coverage any additional needs to come back to modification of the special permit there's about 283 ft of wiggle room before we get up to that 40% but I think per plan and calling it out is perfectly fine your Math's getting pretty good now oh a calculator okay I think we're all set right we voted on ahead of the findings but findings move to confirm after the findings second all those of in favor of confirming I oppose not all right so I think we're good did you vote the actual decision or just confirming the findings we're good we'll vote again wonderful yeah I think we fine thank you all right thank you guys very much we appreciate your time yay Applause okay oh yeah see now you're going to let it go to his head now right he wanted it he wanted it's like Jeb Bush thanks enjoy look project all right next up we have four sandwich Road let everybody leave the own which is J J EC LLC this is application 10924 JJC development um LLC they've applied to the zoning board of appeals for a modification of special permit 08316 pursuant to sections 24 6.2 B and 24 12.1 of the code of fouth to allow 10 Apartments through five duplex buildings the subject property is located at 4 sandwich Road East bouth Massachusetts the property is located in a B2 zoning District um it is in a great Pond Coastal overlay District um it's in the notation it's in flood zone X there is a previous zoning board of appeals decision applicable to the property which is referenced in the public notice at 08316 which allows for the conversion of a former Eastern Bank into a Duncan Donuts fast food restaurant the subject lot is 86,87 square ft which conforms to zoning Street Frontage is 3 35.9 ft which conforms to zoning sandwich road is a public way the lot coverage by structure is presently 3.48% it will be increased by the proposed structures to 13.42% where the limit is 40% in a B2 zoning District lot coverage by Structure Parking and Paving is currently 32.695124 uh we have a detailed report from engineering which runs 13 Pages which I do not intend to read here tonight but we'll expect Mr AMT will address the issues in the engineering referral during his presentation the Board of Health um has approved an alternate technology system for for the entire property including the restaurant we'll have more information on that in the presentation that approval was dated September 16 2024 conservation has no issues the water department has reported that each individual apartment or each individual unit must have a separate water meter the building department has requested that there be directional signs uh to direct traffic to the to the queue for the restaurant so that there's no conflict with the residential traffic fire department has no comment at this time now um the planning board we do not have a site plan review um and is that true Mr AMT there is no site plan review at this time from that's you have no site plan review decision we've uh met twice with the planning board including this week for site plan review and uh actually at a meeting uh Mr bunker and myself with the uh Town planners today to go over site plan review issues okay so we'll expect one sometime I expect them to vote a decision um on January 28th all right um we have no letters of opposition in the file thank you thanks Madam chairman and members of the board as you know but for the record I'm uh Bob AMT uh Falmouth attorney I represent the uh applicant JJC Development LLC um Eric es scander is the um uh Chief Operating Officer the CEO of uh of uh JJ EC and he's here in the uh audience he's been at each of the planning board um meetings as well plans for this project were developed by BSS design Tom Bunker is here uh with me to present Andor to ask any uh to answer any questions that you have the architecture for the project was uh done by Keenan and Kenny Architects John Keenan is in the audience uh very familiar with the property you're probably all familiar with the property to some extent it is the site of uh Dunkin Donuts restaurant um across the street across sandwich Road from the school administration building which on the aerial photograph is this building and this is the site it's not quite 2 Acres it's 1.9 93 Acres it's a little less than 2 Acres um and that's really significant only with respect to density um and I'll come I'll come to that um in 200 uh 16 the um Eastern Bank that had had had a branch uh in this building um was allowed to uh sell the property to uh JJC for conversion of the building from a bank to um a dunin Donuts store and the zoning board of appeals because Duncan Donuts is fast food had to and did Grant a special permit uh for that the planning board approved site plan review and the uh Bank was converted to its present use which is the Duncan Donuts uh store now um JJC or its uh parent Cadet Enterprises um operates some 58 Dunkin Donuts in southeast New England it's a pretty big outfit they own some of their properties and uh probably at least most of them in the summer they employ as many as a thousand people to take care of their stores and they became aware increasingly of the difficulty that uh their employes have uh with housing um on Cape Cod um they have never done a housing project their intention is to create some Workforce housing uh some of it may be occupied by their employees and uh some of it uh would be available to the U uh public to make sure it's filled it is for rental rental only uh uh no intent to uh sell the units um and that's significant in terms of financing in terms of uh uh return on investment looking longterm here um their business is Dunkin Donut stores that's their primary interest continues to be their primary interest in this property but this is a 2 Acres this housing fits they see an opportunity to do something good for their employees for the public the town needs um Apartments like this these are relatively small it's in the right zoning District so as I said fast food Dunkin Donuts has been allowed and the zoning bylaw specifically allows mixed residential and commercial use as well now we've talked a lot about using those words about the mrod zoning District this is not a Mr Cod property as it turns out the Mr Cod District ends right here we are but the Mr Cod overlay District we are not in it the town sewer which is of course an element of Mr Cod ends right where I'm pointing right here at the property line we are not permitted to extend it when the permitting was done in 2016 and I haven't gone back and checked how this happened either the plans then showed that this business-owned property and this business property and this business owned property next door which is in residential use that's the end of the business district but those two properties were not included in the mrot district and they're not included in the Sewer District um so um that's an issue because the property be sides being in a B2 district is in a coastal Pond overlay district for Great Pond um and that explains why we have a state-of-the-art Nitro denitrification septic system plan in order to meet the requirements the district we're actually going to not only have the housing connected to that but uh take abandon the existing septic system for the Dunkin Donut store and connect the store also to that denotification system we're also going to reduce the number of seats in the restaurant from 26 to 18 um most of the businesses through the drive-thru anyway but that reduces the um technical requirements for um sewage capacity and then is that the calculations which have been prepared by BSS design and submitted to the town show an actual a reduction in nitrogen flow uh and therefore we satisfy the coastal Pond overlay District besides the fact that almost everything from this property South to the water is going to be sewered so um the Great Pond is probably the future of it in terms of nitrogen loading is probably pretty good but we're we're not going to be contributing to any problem as a result of this uh project in a business uh district and business 2 is the most intense um District of we have Main Street which is business one but otherwise B2 is for more intense Business Development um six units per acre of housing are permitted by right in a mixed use project that is six units plus the mixed use um by special permit provided that the board of appeals make certain findings the board must find that the public good will be served uh we think that the creation of um Apartments like this for rental Workforce housing we think that there's a great need for it I think everybody thinks that the business Z will not be adversely affected this housing at a density of 10 units 2 acres is five units per acre six is what's allowed on the next property 20 units per acre would be allowed by right because it's in a Mr Cod um zoning District so first public good will be served business Zone will not be adversely affected and three business uses allowed in this district will not be noxious to multif family use um well given the size of this property and the layout of the proposed plan I think you'll easily be able to find that find that that's true so let me uh pull up the plans and walk you through them this is um the existing conditions plan and it shows the Dunkin Donuts building it shows the existing single curb cut for the property it's a presently a one-way traffic flow that uh gets around to the drive-thru over here um you've probably all uh in preparation for tonight's hearing actually gone to the site and if you've driven around here this is a really um comfortably wide drivethru to be able to get um around it there's a requirement for seven stacking spaces that gets you to about here where it's shown at times the Que for the uh Donuts Drive-thru extends uh further neighbors have told us that on occasion they've seen traffic into the street we're not changing the um Dunkin Donuts that's already been approved except to reduce the number of seats and to connect it to a denitrification U septic system um but this is the existing site it's um uh beautifully maintained in terms of landscaping by um the by the owner so that was existing conditions and the proposal and by the way we initially submitted a plan that showed three buildings with a total of 11 Apartments um we subsequently revised the plan uh revise the application to reduce the number of units to 10 and make them all uh do D lexes um so that's what this plan shows um and we have of course the architectural uh plans uh for the project to show you I'm going to uh skip however to a a landscaping plan is because it's shows everything on that plan but it's a little more exciting in color um and this is a uh not the entire property because it's enlarged this doesn't show the um the Dunkin Donut store but um except for some parking spaces to be put on the far side of that primarily for staff um there AR there no changes to that building or to the proposed use um so here's what we have um the five duplexes these are twostory buildings the maximum height um is uh it's technically different because you're measuring from different grades but these are 28 foot tall buildings well below uh what's allowed and as Mr Duffy pointed out earlier the total project um the structures are I think it was 13.42% Lot coverage with these new structures 40% is allowed the total lot coverage including Paving um and the structures is um about 43% I think it was sorry 47.5% but 70% is what's allowed so this is this is not an intense uh uh project one of the neat things about what we've done as a result of the planning board's uh review which is ongoing was to add storage units to every unit so there's a 45t shed uh it's not really a shed it's in the sense that it's um it's part of the construction of the building I show you the architectural plan uh you'll see that this is not a detach shed up against the building this is part of the um um architecturally designed structure and that not only provides some space for um um household goods um and children's outdoor toys all bikes and so but it means that there's actually enclosed private locked storage for anybody who has a bike um so that's really a big Improvement there is a um and it's suggested by the planning board uh they didn't suggest how we do the dra this the storage but this was the solution um and we also added um um coverings over every entrance so that there's a covered entrance with a downlight in the SE ceing of the entrance so those are the lights down lights um and the only other lighting are these 8 foot tall poles that are shown here and uh this plan shows the the it illustrates the illumination um of of the that lighting so it's all on the business side if you will towards the Dunkin Donuts away from a budding residential property there no Bright Lights anywhere along the uh back of the of of the building um at the suggestion of the uh planning board we've created a play area uh entirely fenced in here uh for any children who might live in these uh Apartments we're going to reduce the size of that play area as a result of comments at the last meeting we're going to reduce it somewhat so that we can uh we're going to pull the fence there's uh fencing all along the property it connects to existing fencing all along uh the north side we're going to reduce this move the fence in somewhat to provide uh to save more existing vegetation and to have uh room for some additional uh buffer plantings uh between these residences and the abing residences so we will um be revising the plan uh plan to do that um we show a dumpster of there's an existing dumpster of course approved previously for the Dunkin Donuts it's located behind the Dunkin Donuts building this dumpster would be for the residences the Topography is such that this is about 7 ft lower than the land just to the uh West uh that's why there a retaining wall shown here and we will surround the dumpster with um a vegetation the existing conditions plan um which I showed you a few minutes ago I won't pull it back up but it showed uh about 50 trees to be removed uh from the site in order to build this we're going to uh rep uh plant um what's shown is 79 trees uh we we will do more than that with the revised uh when we Revis the Landscaping to add still more buffer um it's a mix of uh mostly screening trees some um shade trees and um what's the other kind of tree flower flowering trees so we're really going to put an awful lot of trees on this property and we will um try to do even more um in response to um concerns raised by by neighbors so we'll revise the plans and you'll get a a um a plan that has some improvements um the engineering department has uh uh done its usual uh very thorough review of the uh projects and a good portion maybe most of that um 133-page report checks off where our plans comply with uh with their recommendations with regard to some questions they had about the calculation of storm water flow uh Tom Bunker is already addressing uh that uh the conclusions were correct apparently there's some question about uh the calculations we'll deal with engineering to make sure that uh we're good on that um the main concerns that um we think uh engineering had um and the planning staff whom we met with this morning um are are the are the following one our plan this plan shows two-way traffic flow just in this area so that cars could back out and and exit we also show two of the spaces for the residences spaces 15 and 16 over here they're located um at least 45 ft back from the street but nonetheless the plan board's concerned about conflict between cars turning in cars leaving the drive-thru and getting back out onto the onto the street here so I think we're going to eliminate these two spaces um here also the planning board planning staff um strongly recommends that this be a one-way traffic flow um which would mean that uh Vehicles leaving uh a space um in front of the residences would just need to go around and get out this way uh we don't think they they won't need to go all the way around the Dunkin Donut store just to make sure make that clear I'm going to go back to the uh site plans I don't want you to have a question about what I've just said um so here's the proposed um uh full site there's parking right in front of the Dunkin Donut store that's existing there's parking on this aisle that is existing and there's actually some parking in here that's existing um so we're going to create new parking spaces in front of the residences and the planning staff is recommending and we think we can do this that these become angled spaces in all in here and these become angled spacing so that it's clear people will pull in it's easier to pull out and just go around here if they want to exit so that's pretty simple and I hope you you uh you you catch that so we need 38 spaces 18 seats 18 parking spaces that's the requirement we don't really need 18 spaces because uh there aren't one space per seat in a drive-thru restaurant is not usually required but we have 18 spaces plus 20 spaces total of 38 spaces for the proposed use 10 apartments at two spaces for each apartment plus the 18 one for each seat 38 spaces we show 39 spaces so we could lose one but if we lose these two spaces we'll need to make it up uh somewhere um in order to have the angled parking these may become we may lose one of these islands that we proposed um but there's enough room to add at least three parallel parking spaces right in this area um uh we would only need to expand the pavement by 2 feet to have enough room for that so the minor change little bit of change to the um parking to maintain our minimum 38 spaces if not one or two more um but planning these are planning board planning staff recommendations eliminate these spaces redo this make this one way we can do all that and we will and some of those also those recommendations are also in the engineering Department's uh report then there's the question of what happens in the road layout well of course this is an existing um use that was uh approved u in 2016 but there are some things about it that the engineering department would like improved um the granite curbing ends somewhere around here in the street and doesn't continue all the way to the curb cut there is a a burm there is a textured handicap ramp um in this location in front of the um just just south of the curb cut but on the other side of the um the curb cut we left an existing um paved area um not landscaped there's this other one here which is to be landscaped there used to be a circular driveway here so there are those two curb Cuts we were going to leave this one in order to be a congregating area for uh uh school children and their parents um waiting for a bus or before they get picked up um based on the conversations we've had with the a planning staff uh we think what we're going to do is just turn this uh sidewalk so it then comes to a a ramp right here um and in that way comply with their and and eliminate this paved congregating area um and we think that's responsive to uh what the engineering department wants what is left unset is whether um the sidewalk which exists all the way to the curb cut needs to continue on the other side up to the Northerly property line that would be a sidewalk that leads nowhere except to the property line because there is no sidewalk anywhere on sandwich road on the west side of the road there is however a sidewalk on the east side of Sandwich road that goes all the way from Route 28 all the way to Brick Hill Road um we think and of course there's no Granite curbing anywhere on this side of Sandwich Road and past where it exists in this area now um we think that um the any requirement to extend the sidewalk to this location any requirement to uh put Granite curbing along here is uh it should not be uh imposed on on this project um we don't know what it's going to cost to do this project because we don't have construction drawings um and it's often expensive to build on Cape Cod and to build housing as I said to the planning board the other night the project that was approved under Mr Cod uh at 464 Main Street next to the um Chinese restaurant would not be under construction today and it's just started except for the fact the town is awarding $125,000 per apartment $ 1.875 million this is not a mrcat project we are not asking for any town uh uh subsidy um it's true we're not also not restricting the uh rentals because this is a business Zone and we're only doing five units per acre um but it's housing that is not likely to be expensive it's going to be limited by market conditions you don't get that much more for a market rate apartment uh than you do for the affordable units because the rents are pretty good for affordable units um and we don't know if this project is is actually going to be feasible and we just don't think we should be required to do um do at least this bit of work we're going to add more Landscaping um I I think we'll have to um redo the curbing here and we'll have to deal with the radius um but we are hopeful and I'm hoping that the uh planning staff talking to the engineering department will um be in agreement that we should not be required for this project to extend uh the improvements in the road past our curb cut but that to be seen um I think that the comments I've just made really address most of the issues in the um if not all of the issues in the engineering um report uh we are working with uh the planning staff and uh we will address all those issues um hopefully addressing the one I just discussed about how far do we have to do a sidewalk how far do we have to do the curb cut uh with a resolution that will save some money uh um but um we're working with uh with the town on that um when the Dunkin Donut store was approved in 2016 a traffic report was accepted it said that a Dunkin Donuts of um or fast food restaurant of this size in the peak morning hour would generate up to 200 176 trips that is in and out but that's an awful lot that those figures are higher than what the um this Dunkin Donuts has actually uh um generated which is closer to 200 not 276 but the it tells us Institute for Traffic Engineers tells us that uh for this type of apartment uh the average trips perpose peak hour is 46 per unit that is to say half the people who live here are going to leave during a peak hour in the morning um 10 units 4.6 trips call it five five new trips versus over 200 existing trips the impact is going to be insignificant the town planning staff agrees with that they felt that's not an issue issue we don't need to uh have another traffic report uh done um they're more concerned about this site circulation and we're responding as i' as I've said to that um I just want to show you the architecture um Mr Keenan would want me to do that these are goodlook buildings we think uh we've got the floor plans and um the elevations um you can see that each of these entrances has a has a uh covering over it in the uh the back this is a the shed shed for the uh other unit I think I've got that right so here's these are the um access to the sheds behind each building this is the covered entrance to each building um so I think I've probably addressed um everything that shows compliance with the bylaw and I'm happy to try to answer your questions Tom Bunker is here to do that John Keenan is here to do it so there we are sounds good want to start up Mark yeah um I know you don't want to do a traffic report but I'm going to give you one um 9:30 9 to 9:30 in the morning the traffic there is out to sandwich road I don't see how that's not going to interfere significantly with uh the coming and going in those units um I'm to assume that there's going to be children living here um and with cars queuing up on sandwich Road as they will do not having a granite curb you requested there I think it's a safety issue um we've required them at Brick kilm Road we required them uh on uh sandwi Road um and I think there should also be a crosswalk at the uh corner of the uh north side of that property going across the street to the actual existing sidewalk and um you know to allow traffic uh foot traffic to proceed uh safely um or otherwise I'd have to go all the way up and use the other crosswalk um and uh also frequenting that place um to expect the people to come around turn down the front often times the uh line the Queue at the drive-in doesn't allow that to happen because uh as often as not um I I walk in because it's quicker than the drive-thru and I have to wait to sneak around to get into that parking lot by the side entrance um and I'm sure I'm going to have more but it it's um my opinion that there's just too much there five buildings I think is too many for something as busy as you have there and um that's all I have for the moment and and none of these are going to be uh affordable well we're going to have your word for it that they're going to be a but I mean rents out there are crazy yeah none of them are going to be uh restricted and one of the uh reasons this project can work but better for the uh own of the Dunkin Donuts is that we don't have to uh deal with monitoring we don't have to go through a lottery in order to uh rent units um and the like and so it's not a Mr Cod project with 20 units per acre it's 5 units per acre um and um some of the units rented to employees there may be uh reduced rates but that's really between the employer and uh their employee and um there isn't a requirement that this uh that these units be uh restricted through a regulatory agreement um but I would uh maintain that there's a need for apartments like this um to for smaller Apartments go good evening hi um and I appreciate the project I appreciate what you're doing uh especially with the septic systems uh just kind of want to level set myself um attorney onit in the in the write up of the application we have 10 apartments and your write up that you had sent to Norine on November 15th you have nine two bedroom apartments and two one-bedrooms apartments so again just to confirm are there 10 or are there 11 Apartments there are 10 two bedroom units there are five duplexes 5 * 2 is 10 gotcha thank you very much um and again when you're looking at a 308 page application um there's documentation in here that 39 parking spaces are required and then I'm looking at page 299 and it's saying 40 parking spaces so again you're still doing having your discussion you mentioned about taking some away putting them on angles again just from a confirmatory perspective well there were 40 I think that there were 40 spaces required and I could be wrong about this um because when there were 11 Apartments we needed more parking a little bit more parking but the numbers are awfully easy uh two parking spaces for each of 10 Apartments is 20 y 18 seats it's 38 uh the present plan shows 39 um in if we eliminate a couple of spaces we may end up with um uh with 38 uh the as you know um if we were in the Mr Cod District uh right next door uh the parking requirement even for two-bedroom apartments is's only one space um in addition there's some potential for shared parking which we don't need in order to comply we're not asking for a parking reduction but um with two spaces per apartment with one space for every seat with most of the business being through the drive-thru we don't think we have a parking problem at all no I agree um and again just to Mr Fan's kind of observations if we're reducing the the seating from whatever it was 26 down to 18 I guess you could think that fundamentally more cars would have to potentially be queed up so again just be cognizant of that and uh you know make sure we're thinking that through correctly but I I kind of like what you've worked on here so I appreciate the work today thank you Mr Amad I um agree with the comments of Mr fineran about traffic flow on this um uh project I looked at these plans on kind of several times actually trying to figure out in my mind how it's going to work and then when I did my site visit I was out there I think around 11:30 in the morning and one of the things that impressed me was how many trucks and cars were coming in to get coffee and donuts at that time now um and you just mentioned an issue too that I want to follow up on not necessarily tonight but sometime um you're going to have a lot of children school children out at the corner of the the property on the street waiting for the school bus and there's going to be a queue of cars moving around there I I want to see that addressed I'm very anxious to see what the planning board has to say on its site plan review because I hope that's an an issue they will address the other um question all right not question but issue is I think definitely there should be the sidewalk completed at least to the entrance so that somebody can walk continuously on a sidewalk down to sandwich Road um down to Route 28 uh actually um but um there's a uh I'm not opposed in principle to the project there's a lot of details that I want to see worked out and I'm I appreciate the fact that you've addressed many of the issues raised by the town engineer in that 133-page report and I think that's a a fairly decent job so far that yeah great Jim no I I would agree with Mr Duffy's uh com comments I would like to see what the decision and the conditions the planning board imposes uh I think that the what you propos with the angle parking certainly is alleviated not eliminated my concerns about the traffic flow around uh I too will share the sentiments that that is a very busy location um I don't necessarily think it's going to rise to the level of being noxious to multif family use but it's very concerning so hope we going to be able to come up with something and I look forward to the comments of the planner after the decision Tony Madam chair through you uh to The Zing administrator will this need to be continued until the planning Board review is completed okay so my question is on the workforce housing it it's really it's none of this is going to be contributed to the S the uh subsidized housing industry um and inventory am I correct that's correct uh and that the rents will be market rate your your letter to the board States the owner operates multiple dun cond Donuts acutely aware of the difficulty of the employees having finding satisfactory housing on Cape Cod the proposed housing project is in response to that problem um I I don't imagine that Duncan Don's employees can afford uh market rate housing am I incorrect at that the most well that seems to be a leading question but um the the um among the employees who have left the business have been managers of of the uh of Dunkin D stores um and as I already indicated um the owner may be in a position to uh help employees uh with with their rent but doesn't mean that all of the units are going to be rented to employees that's probably unlikely but it um so there will be some Market um rate units just as there is in a 40b project where only uh 25% of the units need to be uh restricted would there be any capacity uh by this board to mandate that at least two of the units be uh affordable well this board can attach conditions um whether it's those are conditions that would be upheld if appealed that's a different story I'm not thinking that this is going to go that direction the question is also whether this project this building of of housing for rental purposes where you're not selling the units and getting your money out right away whether this is even feasible we don't know that the more restrictions which are in excess of what the zoning bylaw requires the more requirements for um work in the town way on conditions that exist today at some point this project won't go forward we are agreeable I think it was it um one of you said that you think we should at least get the sidewalk at least get the curbing to the curb cut we're going to agree to that we're going to have the walkway that comes down to the street uh curve into the proper um place for the bus to pick up uh kids uh we can certainly put a bench or something in the lawn near that area the idea of this is where kids will wait we can do that things like that um but I whoever suggested that was really agreeing with us that maybe we don't have shouldn't have to um put in Granite Curbing and a sidewalk all the way uh farther to the North End of the property where it doesn't lead any anywhere there is an existing uh there's an existing uh walkway that gets to the sidewalk through the property there is a crosswalk uh further to the South we can certainly put a crosswalk uh painted on the street or the town can do it we're not asking for $125,000 unit we're not asking for anything the town could certainly or we will put in a striped walkway across here to connect to the sidewalk and there is a path in the other side of the street that runs up to the school administration building I guess it's um Madam chair may I I I'm don't mean to interrupt my question was about market rate units non-market rate units and and I and I appreciate what you're saying very much I I don't mean to but I don't want to get thrown off track here I have a couple more questions is that all right if I go through those continue y Mr go ahead sure uh I understand that these will be market rate units Maybe the owner will reduce the rate for dunin donuts employee but in fact this is a housing project uh for profit and its market rate um well this project because of the number of parking spaces will this project require under 12.1 f a performance guarantee um I don't know the answer to that question without reviewing the bylaw all right I I just want to bring that up very often this board when it provides conditions it says per plan and I just want to get these little things out of the way and when we say per plan it's per plan but when you these plans proposed exterior finish options options so if we say per plan that means that you haven't chosen whether it's White City shingle cabbits wooden bat or panels you don't know what the outside siding will be at this point in time is that correct all the construction details have um have not been decided I don't think we'd have any problem with a requirement that the construction drawings be submitted to the board for administrative review um yeah because you TR a through D and and when we say per plans and we don't really know what we're agre too at that point in time I guess unless we don't care I I don't know what the rest of the I understand your concern all right so we're going to get we're going to get revised plans so um yeah but we're not we're not planning at this time to submit construction drawings that show all those details I think you've done an outstanding an absolutely outstanding job in designing them so don't misunderstand me I think it's a wonderful thing it's nice to see this happening in town here might I have a couple more questions and I don't want to belabor this too much you have a nitrogen load you know we have issues in this town about nitrogen loading uh we know what's going on and and is going on right now with regard to that and when I saw this report I'd like to say I truly understand it but it's the first time I've seen it so well done um is this you're you're you're actually increasing the nitrate level from 69 I guess is 69,000 mg to 97,000 mg yet the concentration goes from a 6.05 to a 5.04 is that because the Nitro system is that a brand name Nitro is it just uh all right may I ask the engineer a question on that thanks because I think this is is wonderful that you're doing that the Nitro which is a a brand name is it's actually produced by Clean 2 it's a Swedish company but it's Nitro is the this one type of system that they produce so in it in the reduction the concentration uh which is expressed is 6.05 down to 5.04 when that concentration is expressed in that way is that a milligrams per liter per day how is that Express I don't understand what that means the concentration is it's parts per million parts per million of eent it's It's the amount of nitrate per liter it's there is you know it's one part per million liters is you know kind of part Filan so it's a concentration there's there's um you know we have the Dunkin Donuts uh with 26 seats that's untreated uh and that will become treated and then these uh 20 bedrooms will all be treated there is an increase in the actual amount of nitrogen in the affluent but because of the amount of water that's going through the the the bathroom FL 110 gallons per day per bedroom um there's it's more dilute so it's a lower concentration so and this is a board of health things not in our appr you but the fact that you're dealing with it in uh the coastal Pond over District 7.2 you you you have to do this given the situation you've done it and it's wonderful to see um just out of curiosity for me anyway um when the this the the reduction is expressed in this way this has to go through do go through a proofing in the first year once all the units are buil so somebody has to proof it back to the Board of Health yeah there I can't remember the exact requirements but the Board of Health in in approving any of these type of systems and now they only limit it they allow it acronym ban are best available nitrogen reducing technology they're they're only four systems and the Nitro was one of them that that the local board health and the state approve for use in in these uh uh nitrogen sensitive areas and they do require uh testing I believe it's quarterly for the first couple of years and then less testing after that once they get it adjusted so they're confident that it'll be working properly I only ask these questions because this board is required to consider all of that within 7.2 and understand it uh if it should find it's going to approve the project um I I I i' would love to know more about this it's very interesting but I'm not going to take up anyone's time thank you very much I appreciate that welome I have a couple questions no you go first then I follow up I have a couple questions on the traffic you would help me I'll try to answer your traffic study is almost 10 years old yeah and we've approved a lot of stuff on sandwich Road tea tickets getting it's share I'm trying to be kind but tea tickets frunt of things and I assume it's not including the 300 it's on including trotting Park the 40b there no of course not it's 10 years old yeah is there any way that we could do Cals without having a whole full-blown traffic study just some Cals to include I mean I only know the 40 B's I'm sure there's stuff that that's gone up that's not even 40 BS well we're not asking you to approve the Dunkin Donuts M which you know has is a has a lot of trips in and out of of that space uh anything we do is going to have a minimal impact on the traffic flow we're we're talking about a car um exiting or entering only once every uh 10 or 12 minutes um three trips in two trips out that's what we're talking about 4.6 trips at the peak hour for 10 Apartments well what I'm getting at is when the 300 units come in this project this Duncan could be slammed it could be far more cars there right now we're already having testimony that the queue goes out to sandwich Road at busy hours yeah we don't think it happens often but Mr Fin's experience seems to be different Frank went there at lunchtime today and it was busy also in January yeah so I I just but we're not there needs to be consideration for all the extra approvals that are in that area that's yeah I'm not asking for a full-blown I understand um I don't think that a traffic study or the traffic counts um should make a difference in whether we approve apartments with this little additional traffic okay because of the need we look we need we need Apartments like this um that's another question what does this do to our Shi does nothing nothing well I guess I should say that because 10% increases is by we have 10 more units in town so in a sense we have to away from rshi well yes how many how many units housing units do we have in town not enough according to this town well but we have 15 20,000 probably more more than that we have uh housing units in town but it is going against our SHI I'm just pointing that out Frank reads Mr Duffy reads every hearing when he opens it this will not affect our affordable housing count we we can't say that in this case because it will affect that well I suppose there's some um tiny tiny tiny fraction that it could make a difference you're right the role of the board of appeals in these cases is uh not to require Perfection this Project's been described by a member as outstanding it's a great project I think others are going to disagree um and we can't create apartments and you know we think that we we say to employers you need to do something you know why don't you put some apartments above your store next year story here's a here's a client who's doing it in the right zoning District reaching a density of development in terms of lot coverage far below what's allowable um and I'm afraid that we let the goal of perfection get in the way of a very good project we address the engineering department requests as best we can we point out that there's no sense having a sidewalk continue further um we do the absolute best we can do with denitrification um keeping in mind that the whole area is going to be sewered except not our property so that the whatever loading there is in Great Pond which is our Coastal Pond overlay district is going to be addressed by the town um we're going to have some children probably you know if we have two bedroom apartments this particular um we're creating a playground um for them um yeah there's Dunkin Donuts is popular and we have much more queuing than required by the bylaw but at times even that's uh not enough um Duncan may be able to do some things about that about getting people through that through the window more quickly they I don't think they've been aware of this um um um problem um but there are um some solutions I just want to don't know why we we lost this but I'm going to get this back we're I think we're all okay I I just was just I wanted to point I wanted to what I wanted to point out was that um the aisle between those two lanes isn't all does you know it's it's a double aisle you know it was designed for and presently is for two-way traffic it's the required 24 ft wide um there is room for a car to pull out and go around without being in the queue you know we can make that work a better people who live there who in the morning happen to go to work during the peak hour they can back into their space making it easier to exit they can park across in the spaces that are across the aisle so that if traffic is backed up they can use the lane to just go around that Circle there are there are PE people will know what to do if they live there um so I don't think that the um proposed departments are are are going to have that great an impact with respect to what's already there thanks let's go oh well let's go to the public now I got a couple of want to ask quickly yeah um I just a couple of things um I still believe uh in front of that building when you're going to intermingle a school bus kids and people waiting to get their coffee in the morning I think not having a granite curb there which provides the greatest amount of protection for the people on the sidewalks um well we're going to have a we're going to have we will put it there at the at the curve and have the walkway go down the planning staff felt that where the school bus would stop and let people get on or off would be at the beginning of of the the um curb cut cars have to stop when there's a school bus they're load of the curb cut if you will say again please left side of the curb cut if you will well I don't know which it would be I you're driving in the driveway to Dunkin Donuts you're proposing the bus stopped to be on the left no on the right I don't really think it matters because when a it matters a lot because the cars are queuing up on the right side of the driveway and then you got kids pres and cars queuing up in the street it's it's an issue presumably for the bus to get to pick up kids it's it's heading south yeah on sandwich Road otherwise we're talking about the other side of the road oh it' be heading south on sanwich road right and that's the same place where the cars are going to be queued the kids are going to be waiting the bus can't get sidewalk with no no Granite curb to protect the children on the sidewalk that's just an issue with me but I just I don't see think that what you're saying is in conflict with the idea that we don't need the sidewalk to extend all the way uh uh to the north property line of the property we would that not be the safest place with cars queuing up into the street my opinion would be anyway um and then you're definitely going to have to do some striping in there because the way that works cars just go down the center of that what you project on the screen as a two lane we happy to do striping as required by the town or recommended by the town and um it was kind of misleading where you said that the uh nitrogen would be reduced you're actually going to reduce the amount of nitrogen lader but the total load is is is going to be increased and that's what we're supposed to be cognizant of I just wanted to point that out and also I I go there a lot and um I mean this this this is going to be tight with the number of parking spaces and generally um during the daytime there are three or four employee vehicles at that place because whatever I I drink a lot of coffee and uh well we are just my experience tells me that we're going to add six parking spaces uh behind the Dunkin Donuts I don't know if I really pointed that out point it out and not included in the 38 count no they are included but we've got two parking spaces per apartment plus the 18 spaces I me we think that's enough it meets the bylaw also uh we'll get to review it when the planning board yeah let's go to the public you all everybody ready yes yes who wants to start off from the public [Music] tonight we just need your name and address please thank you good evening board my name is Lori Lopes my address is 35 trting Park Road I am lot six on the plan and immediate of butter I'd like to thank you all tonight because you really did address a lot of the concerns that I have um I live there basically my whole entire life I'm very familiar with t ticket um that is an extremely busy Dunkin Donuts I myself love coffee and I can go there a couple of times a day but I don't walk through the woods because it's blocked off there but um thank you I just have a few things to say and my first really main concern was um if we could go back to the f first planning board meeting um we received a letter as um a Butters that the plan was going to be for three dwellings with 11 Apartments so that was the notice that we received as ABS um when we showed up to the meeting and I had all my questions prepared because I studied the original plan um and it was up on the screen and Mr Amit took that down and said that's not the plan we're proposing this evening we're going to be proposing five duplexes with 10 Apartments so we'll be taking one less apartment away but we'll be adding two more buildings so we as the public were never notified of a plan change so we until um the second um so the planning board allowed them to go through with that new plan the whole meeting they let them propose the whole plan um we were not aware of it we were actually all blindsided so and they're still proposing it in all the headings of all the meetings as the three three dwelling 11 apartment complex um that was my most major concern because we were not prepared we had nothing we had nothing for that meeting so that um I'm not so sure if that was appropriate um and maybe you can advise or um let me know about that but then he um they also um showed that same plan in last um this week's meeting um So the plan switch was my most major concern the traffic study which you already addressed which I appreciate um I am feet from their property line like right now when I look out my kitchen window I see natural trees brush I have a garden I have goats um tea tickets very Agricultural and they are really taking a lot of te ticket away from us I am second generation in my home as well as a lot of us there on trotting Park Road traffic coming out of Sandwich road to pull out of trotting Park Road sometimes is nearly impossible we have to wait wait wait a lot of people blow that stop sign the cops get them all the time they're always waiting there there's so many traffic stops from people blowing that sign so that it's really is the traffic also um you know it's so C it looks so crowded I mean it's a beautiful plan but when you actually visit the site it's it's not that that large um snow plowing is probably going to be a nightmare um I'm sorry but um one last thing Mr arit said that um it's um not to require perfection and in the planning board the other night he said that um it's not a fancy location well t tiet is fancy to me it's my home it's Agri child cultural I live their whole my life it's not fancy it's farm land it's jeans and boots and people that like to work in their yards um but I just like to say thank you for your time um and I appreciate everything that you already address and a lot of those were my questions also so thank you very much hi hi I'm uh Mike Bishop um I believe lot seven correct so I'm on the corner of the north I guess it would be West um couple questions uh first one is the parking spots so you said there's two per unit do you have a plan for guests I'm just curious if there's one for guest or for occupancy for each unit because you can I'm not sure if you're going to have a Max people in a unit you could have you know a couple with 16 17 year old kids and they're going to have vehicles so what do you do with those vehicles I mean I think that should be a concern um and my other one is just a general one for traffic have we ever looked at that stop sign that Lori which is also my cousin that I also grew up there my whole life um people just blow through that so when you're on tronic P Ro you can't get out has anyone looked at putting like a light there like they do on the express way in Boston where you have to stop I mean I'm just just for an idea cuz I mean Mark's there design up plan it's just turn it into a te but it hasn't got something cuz especially the summer the it's just getting ridiculous trying to get out of that road State Highway which the town doesn't have as much control over the intersection so that would be highway it's okay town and state meet so the state M but they would like to make that a te cuz it's it's a yeah it's a bad section and it's just frustrating CU you'll see from leaving Dunkin Donuts there'll be 10 cars there and as soon as they go every single car goes at the same time so really just totally blows off the stop sign meanwhile you're in Trent Park and Trent Park's backing up 10 Vehicles deep so I know that's just the frustrating part of living on TR Park Road but thank you very much appreciate it anybody else good evening good evening I'm Mary Bishop I'm at 45 tring Park Road White right next door to my uh son Michael and right next to me is my daughter Nancy Bishop so we have our own little compound there on that street and across the street of trotting Park and I have lived there a good 70 years and my children used to play on trotting Park Road and would get upset when one car would come well now you can't even get on trotting Park from my driveway but looking at the plan I guess there's not much lawn that's going to go in there and uh uh Mr almond indicated there were going to be a lot of trees well right now you can look out my back and we still keep our Farmland my daughter has like a mini Farm there but we can't see sandwich road right now but I'm afraid that that's going to go by the board and our all our trees and brush is going to go and uh I I noticed I think there's a dumpster right at the corner of the uh house next to lry and I said I I guess we're all going to be hearing that dumpster at 4:00 in the morning because it's right On The Edge Edge of the U Road you know uh towards the houses but uh uh and then the play area I I didn't get it didn't say playground and I didn't quite understand what a play area would be would be just all grass a Fen in area or are we going to put something in there uh and I'm thinking is it going to be fenced in or are we going to have children coming you know right through you know we do have farm animals there and uh I think that needs to be addressed and as far as the traffic I'm like Mr feran when I go down there to Dunkin' Donuts my car is backed up and people are trying to get out of the queue area and it's not just at 7 8 or 9:00 in the morning I mean it's actually waiting to happen but uh uh thank you and I think you've addressed a lot of the issues thank you thank you anybody else want to ask any more questions or make any statements before Mr arment might address what was brought up one more I passed next one more he's got he's got questions my name is Daniel figero and I own the house at 20 sandwich Road directly north of butter um as you as the board has stated the president of Butters have also stated obviously traffic's a huge issue there's many times I can't pull in and out of my driveway throughout the summer especially March through October now and it gets later and later every year as the season grows and more people stay later and later year by year it's a beautiful plan I like I mean it looks good the houses are beautiful but for that where they're proposing it it just seems a too much for that area looking out directly seeing four houses where right now it's just Woods don't see the Dunkin Dons building itself it's nice but looking up every morning looking at that not not something that I'd love to see but and the other thing is safety there will be kids living there there will be cars blowing by that stop sign if they're kids waiting at that bus stop and just cars not stopping I know there's hundreds of couple hundred feet before Dunkin D and scarp cut in the stop sign but they won't be looking at kids they'll be looking at 28 to see who's coming if whether they can go or not so safety is a big concern of mine thank you thanks um my name is Rafael Beltran I live in 29 Tron Park R right in back of Duncan Dona and I hear a lot of noise and people insulted the people the service people swearing which I that almost every day well not every day but and one time I remember one one guy was really mad was swearing like crazy and there children's next to no there's a little house there with kids and anyway so dunin Dona put dunan Dona there anyway and uh they did a a very good job they put the trees you don't see dunan Dona that much but you can hear it every no every morning welcome to dunan Dona how can I help you I have to hear that almost every day cuz I have a garden room next to that place there so I can hear that every day but anyway my concern is cutting all those trees that's going to really look my my my view in the back like completely destroyed and I see lots of animals like deers and all kinds of uh walking through through a cross there now if they going to put a fence there and and they're going to block all that where are those animals going to go cuz I I know they go between every everybody's house is that right yeah every so I don't don't understand dunin Dona I mean why I mean first dunin Dona is not a very healthy fool anyway they're not doing a favor to this town I don't think so why don't Kona do a favor for the for the people of especially us and leave that place alone so so the animal can enjoy and we can enjoy the wild trees that's all I ask please so please try not to build anything there because uh i' be very upset but if you have to it's nothing I can do thank you anybody else I think we're all set um this is going to be continued because we are waiting for the site plan approval Madam chair is it appropriate for me to just make one more comment to the applicant before we go if this is going to be continued and listening carefully to the abuts uh as what they just said about landscaping and looking at the Landscaping plan as one member I would like the app to to consider uh if this is approved as part of the approval that there be a much denser landscape screening put up behind these units to block off or to at least give back the folks that live there something uh as far as Landscaping is because they are going to lose uh what they have today I know that's progress but I just want to mention that and hope that the applicant will consider the project made need additional landscape screening behind the units okay thank you go ahead just a few comments in response to what uh you've heard um the play area as proposed is fenced uh we are going to move as I said the fence further away from the property line so that there's more room for landscaping I've already said we were going to um add more than the 79 trees that um are shown you know zoning doesn't protect the owner of one property from seeing in to the adjacent property we can do more landscaping and we will but our lot coverage is not high views of the street views of Dunkin Donuts views of the car are going to be blocked by the relatively small residential buildings there is no protection in zoning from having wab butter being able to see a house next door there is no protection from being able to to avoid having children playing in a fenced playground next to your property somebody cleared the entire lot next to my property uh recently to build a big house they had a right to do it and I planted a bunch of trees to soften that we're going to plant the trees for the Neighbors we're going to reduce the impact the dumpster will be emptied um after 7:00 a.m. M okay that can be a condition because it is a condition in your present special permit issue 10 years ago if that isn't being complied with the neighbor should say so and we should have to comply with it so we will comply with that there is a wildlife Corridor next door it doesn't extend onto this property because and the deer don't seem to follow the rules I'm just kidding yes there's Wildlife that will be impacted by this and we will replant trees and we're keeping the lot coverage significantly below um this is a good plan as people have said we have some traffic issues apparently these traffic issues exist our proposal to provide some housing is barely um impacting uh those you can raise the question of whether because of traffic problems this is a good place for children so we can try to address those as best we can I think there are a lot of families with children who would like to live in this location thanks thank you going forward to so we have February 27th right yes okay motion to continue to February 277 you said 27 27 said second February 27th all you guys hear that out there too s or 7 27 yep so we have a motion in a second any further discussion all those in favor iOS none okay great thank you all for coming out thank you take a little break here yeah let's take a five minute break also called the high you guys all set all right our next case is 10 thanks you put the glasses on before I say anything 11024 uh 16 Pico path Frank okay this is application 110- 24 gity and dority Properties LLC this company has applied to the zoning board of appeals for a special permit pursuant to sections 240- 9.6 B of the code of fouth to allow a home occupation the the subject property is 16th at Chico path in East felma zoning district is RC um this is in the bournes pond Coastal Pond overlay District um the uh there on record there are no previous zoning board of appeals decisions applicable to this property um the lot is is uh 43550 ft in a zoning District which requires a minimum of 40,000 square fet so it's conforming Street Frontage is 31932 Ft in a zoning District which requires 100 so there's no problem there Pico path is a public RightWay as we've been advised by the engineering department um there are no uh changes to uh structure setbacks lot coverages or any of those cons considerations the garage in question apparently conforms to zoning cut setbacks although it's not listed um on the in the application in fact the application is kind of sketchy with some of these details but um we have an engineering re re um referral which requires legible building numbers uh so the owner of the property will have to confir with the engineering department to make sure that's corrected the Board of Health has no issues at this time because it's no issue with a septic system Conservation Commission has no comment um the fire department has no comment the assessors have no comment um the building department has advised us that the business must be owned by a resident of the dwelling on the property and limit there's a limit of 30% of the gross floor area uh of the dwelling for the the business we have one letter which appears to be in support I say appears to be in support because it doesn't really say so but it says nice things um and that's really all the information I have as I said we have a rather sketchy application he I'm uh Brendan gy one of the owners of the property um I wasn't too familiar with the process till I heard everyone else so I don't have a presentation or anything like that but I'm here to answer any questions and you have no plan to put up or anything no okay what was your name Brendan G yeah anybody up here have any questions yeah is is that your business the Marine no it's uh one of the tenants um how is this uh 30% going to apply I know it's really meant for you know uh occupations in the actual home but uh reality is this dwelling is larger than the footprint of the home um so how uh does that seems on the surface anyway it would preclude the use of some of this space I I'm not uh familiar how we should apply this and uh is this is always been used this way but it um just came up somebody complain or something how did this get in front of us what prompted you or precipitated you to come here and apply for this permit yeah someone did complain um the building was in very bad shape after the previous uh contractor had left and I think he was there for over 25 years um he wasn't ATT ten of the building of the duplex and we just repaired the whole building cleaned up the premises all the tires and everything that was left there was all cleaned out and then someone from a different neighborhood I guess had complained about the use now I used to uh not that it matters to this application but I used to have a business and there are several rentals on that do you own all of those buildings now just just that one in the garage right yeah okay um I'm still curious says to uh let's ask Norine how we apply the 30 you can help us yeah figure out why we're here right so I think you know perhaps the first order of business too is when you look at the home occupation section it also talks about essentially what is as a right if you will and it certainly appears that the way the bylaw is set up is that when it starts to propose a special permit is when you have an under sized lot here they do not have an undersized lot so I guess that's part of the question too is whether they actually need a special permit here this is well but they don't to your point I gu they don't match up to a lot of the component what's the business that you're doing there and you don't live there correct you don't no I don't live there um it's it uh like a marine company they service the local yach clubs um service boats and uh like the premises so you don't you don't live there because there's an artic piece of the bylaw there shall not be more than two employees who are not family members I mean are you fully aware of yeah yeah no I read through them um there's from what I know is everything I put in the application is there's two a brother and a sister that are on site sometimes and then two employees so as much as anything you're just parking they're just parking the vehicles there all their business is on the road yeah they they sometimes have a boat inside I'm not sure the extent of work but from what they told me it's essentially just storage but so we only I'm not sure that we kind of should have gone through this process but just since we got the letter we got a letter highlighting home occupation and submit a special permit so that's what we went through I mean it also appears as though these vehicles that are being used for the business are related to the people that live there in the house correct yeah so you know if you were a business person and you used your vehicle like if you were an electrician or a plumber you know you would park your business vehicle where you live so I guess that's the other part too is you know how do you parse out what portion of the property they're using for themselves or their business if if it's their business vehicle right right is there any comment from the building department well yes the building department um said that the business must be owned by a resident of the dwelling and we have to get into that with Mr G well it is and then um the Li limit uh 30% of gross floor area of the in other words the the the home it's just a home pay service business not a home occupation it's much different right so he's he's applying for the wrong thing um so the uh that business cannot be more than 30% of the gross area of the dwelling or area of the dwelling and that's a question we got to get into with Mr G but it's even more than that though don't you think there's a lot more things I think we'll get to it as we go through the question I mean it's essentially it appears that um all the tools of their trade so to speak are in the trucks because they're mobile um you know I mean he's just parking Vehicles there like any electrician plumber or yeah we got that's not yeah we got well he's got two vehicles parked but he says in his application that he's using 50% of the garage for his business yeah but but he's the property owner being leased to another company not related to them all of them live out of town the only ones that live in town are the two renters that work for uh the Marine company um none of them are related uh to the ownership technically aren't they the owner because they lease the dwelling they but the owners don't live there it specifically says for the purposes of this definition the home occupation must be owned in oper operated by the resident of the premises yeah he is the owner of the property he's not the resident in the premises and the use of the property is by Northern Coastal Services tenant he's using it currently right now as a if you were in a business district or an industrial district right now he's not using it as a home occupation uh because there is no one who owns the home working in it under the definition that's required no the definition said res though says it says resident so resident and the resident is the one who owns the Marine company right but you you also because the person that lives there is a renter under special permit requirements you have to have the owner participate in a special permit grant for example because only the owner can grant permission to someone to do this so the owner's here or their tenant so the tenant is able to have a business there's no preclusion what they say is says resident you correct you're the resident there and so therefore you're maintaining your vehicles in the garage on your property but that does not happen it is not owned and operated by the resident they're employees of the Marine company yeah but of Northern Coastal Services they're not the resident is Northern Coastal Serv services so it does apply under what you just read okay I believe I don't think it does but in any event what what's ask who owns the house I do who are you the company or yourself myself I have nothing to do with the company I'm just the property owner but the resident and who sorry so the house is owned by Brendan G that's who own the but the resident as we'll get that the second who resides in the house there's two tenants uh two units one of the tenants is one of the partners of the business Kyle Karen so he's he operates the business yes he's one of the partners okay and does the other tenant have anything to do with this no how do you get a two family house in a district that only allows a single family residence uh that whole street has a number of two mam chairman there was some correspondents I believe from The Building Commissioner and the tax assessor that has been taxed as a multif family for 20 plus years so I would suggest it's a non pre-existing non-con or grandfathered use as a multif family and a single family I I have a question about that it it comes in as to the homebased service business issue I I would think think I four multif family houses in a row because I've used to pick up numerous employees at numerous can procedurally just ask if we're if the board is in agreement because we keep coming back to there's different words and meanings within home occupation versus homebased service business and I would certainly agree with Mr Puchi that it I don't think this is a home occupation this is a homebased service business because it's a different standard different words and different criteria so I I think that there's a an error either in our agenda or in the applic certainly understand with the nonpractitioner owners yes but in terms of our analysis I think we the board should be clear as to what what are we looking at here but my question oh it's not 9.6 then what uh where's homebased service no it's a homebased service business that if he's anything he's a homebased service business he's not a home occupation yeah well that's 9.6 what's home based well here it is on page 20 the definition is on page 20 yeah homebased service business a home occupation that operates from a single family residence or structure on an adjoining lot provided that both lots are in common ownership with respect to fee and not fee interests and do not satisfy the definition of a Contractor Yard and meets the following criteria a the single family resident shall be the domicile of the resident owner/operator of the business B the business employees not more than than two individuals who are non-f family members on the premises see the business is one of the following types uh One Landscaping two electrical wiring Three Plumbing including gas fitting Four Construction including home building and remodeling framing masonry and Foundations sighting carpentry drywall air conditioning Energy Services Roofing painting and sign making five mobile marine services excluding boat storage six other General services not more specifically listed in and D the business meets all the criteria contained in section 240- 9.6 B the special permit criteria for homebased service businesses so my question would be what doesn't he meet what do they not meet uh service single family is it he's not a single family resident what was your other one Frank well it's right the business employs not more than two individuals who are not family members how many people are employed by this business that's correct on that site I'm told it's a brother and sister and two other employees but since it's a a a corporation there are no family members so the maximum number of employees they can have is two and you're saying they have four I thought that was besides the uh family members no family members when a corporation is their business okay I don't know Le that's my view wow that's a real hair split difficult the two people yeah now what would it's a corporation that runs the business he said so it's not a it's not an individual running the business with a family it's a corporation who has no family well it's an LLC with a manager and it names only one manager at the corporate records right here Robert uh Shin shinbi I think it is yes who lives in Duxbury so are you saying that there is another owner who's not listed on the corporate listing here yeah I'm told there's three Partners to the business I I think we need yeah repres we need testimony and representations from the business FR this is no fault of your own but that we need someone from the the whoever is doing the Marine work Services needs to be here to answer questions I I hate to uh ask this but you know I'm going to anyway um what would preclude this gentleman from just renting his garage separately not allowed in the zone what is the purpose of the rental if it's just to put someone's car in there i' would say there's no zoning or any violation if you're running a commercial Enterprise out of it though that's that's what triggered my understanding speaking with the zoning administrator please correct me is that for the most part there hasn't been any opposition it's been that that the there was actually compliments that the building was cleaned up we've had testimony from the applicant but it's the work isn't done there I mean it's a mobile right I mean essentially they just parking Vehicles there the person that lives there is parking their vehicle there similar to other mobile Marine operations you've approved before and you know in truth people are not it's not a home occupation and that the work is not being done there the person's parking their vehicle so there's no cease and assist or enforcement action from The Building Commissioner at this point it's all within the garage I'm adverse to Heming up anybody that's just trying to make a living no and I anyone who's trying to do the right thing I just I don't know this is kind seems like at this point without additional testimony it's a it's a square peg and a round hole and very much so very much so but at the same time there's no enforcement action that that that might I don't necessarily disagree with the point that if someone's just parking a commercial vehicle and they're a commercial or excuse me commercial vehicle in a residential neighborhood I mean that happens all the time yeah and it's allowed but it's restricted in this these vehicles would fit into it's restricted by weight of course but and these vehicles will least what I've seen would fit in that type of uh environment but um I think we need to know more well there are two trailers on that property and according to the zoning B do you know how long those trailers are what's the length of them I don't know the length of the trailers but I know the pickup trucks are under the weight limit well I'm talking about the trailers you know we need to know how how long those trailers are because there's a requirement in bylaw that they either be screened from public view or you have a special permit for those trailers and you don't have either wouldn't you say they're screened from public view that that's a very secluded area uh no you're on a public way that's a public Street oh I was surprised to find I was surprised to find out that it was a public street but it is yeah me too I thought it was always private well that's what Scott lutter said I actually uh did an me uh town meeting article relative to uh I don't know I was taking pictures of uh Lots filled with junk and garbage and that was one of the places that I took pictures of and uh I was quite surprised when I drove down the other day uh it is noticeably I mean it's it it's certainly not offensive anymore and I think we had you know corresponden that uh indicated that I mean it used to be like a half a dump down there but it either fits within the zoning or it doesn't I think it's wonderful it's been cleaned up and I think it's appropriate and I you have to know that I am 100% in business favor I mean that's my whole life has been in business so I'm not trying to be obstructionist in this but the problem with many communities is that zoning isn't always a to and and when the rule of law is excluded then you lose order so we have I don't know what the abuts are going to say but we have abutters and other people who may be concerned that there's a violation of the zoning by aw and I don't know that I'm I'm confused by it so we also any more information we do and a lot more information any public care questions I have is that the um the garage is a 4 Bay garage anything more than two in this District requires a special permit there's no record of a special permit um but also it's been there longer than 10 years 10 years so it's well yes it's the building is grandfathered we can't tear it down but the use is not grandfathered so right there's a question there a lot of question I mean it's just uh what we recommend I think the applicant has got a lot of homework go to the public first and then you're aware that you could turn that uh garage into another dwelling now don't you aren't you yes uh yes I believe so Bob from the you guys want to come up we just need your name and address please hi uh art gutch 15 terryl AV so I live directly in back of the building on Terry L and you guys are familiar with that Road there it's a dirt road so there's nothing there's a Butters behind the trees on the other side but I walk through there almost every other day to go to the woods walk down I run the trail at se Farms Marsh there so I'm in there all the time I pass the building you know hundreds of times so um the the new the owner that's in there now has done a great job of cleaning that place up it was a disaster he cleaned it up redid the whole building I've never seen any really large trailers in there it's mostly you know he's got his pickup truck truck parked there he's got uh he's got his boat there now I guess he's storing but um from my perspective my concern was that they don't do anything more than they've done already right now I've seen for the last since I've been there which is only three years he all he does is Park his cars there I never hear any noise um he's cleaned it up so as long as he doesn't do anything other than that I'm totally fine with it I'm more concerned with as you mentioned that other group of buildings that's on the other side of me where the there's been some issues uh including murder yeah I was gonna say called yeah whatever so um but this this one in particular and sunny my neighbor you probably know him pimental who's been there for 70 years he wrote that nice letter I think that's in the file so he and I both agree that this gentleman has done a good job cleaning it up it's very quiet there's no noise as long as it doesn't turn into some kind of active area where there's things going on that causes noise or trouble we're fine with it as a Butters um I had some of the same concerns you guys did cuz I'm a little bit familiar with development and stuff like that as to how it would become a home use how that definition would apply to this because it's a little bit weird um and I was I made a comment to to to Sunny about that about how that that was my only concern whether whoever's trying to keep him from doing this might use that as a way to get him out of the building um but I'm I'm comfortable with what's going on there as long as no further development occurs and no other F further activity occurs you know I'm fine with it he's cleaned it up nicely I walk through and I don't have to walk through a bunch of junk and stuff that's not there anymore so he's done a good job um that's the only comment I have great thank you thank you good evening my name's Fred leech 28 Gail Al I'm the one that pretty much started this whole thing um I can also give you a little bit more information than you have at the present time um obviously one of the things that you all brought up was the difference between whether this is a homebased business or whether it is a home service business the owner of this property um has nothing to do with the business on the property um as you guys stated you know I went through the whole thing going through 2403 .3 homebased business must be owned and operated by the resident of the Pres in this case the business owner is not the owner or the resident of the property one of his employees is in one of the two units he is not one of the registered owners of the company and it's not listed that way it's a single family resident shall be the domicile resident owner it's not by requirements a home occupation is provided 30 % if you do call it based on the 30% the dwelling unit is 2016 Square ft the garage unit is 2280 so basically it's over 100% of the dwelling and he's not using one or two bays he presently has access to all four Bays by criteria for home occupation as a homebased service business you may approve this based on the following all exterior storage including trailers under 18 ft in bed length shall be completely screened this gentleman at present owns two 3/4 ton trucks two trailers that are just under 18 ft long two vans in addition the number of employees if you go on Northern Coastline website he lists over 10 employees he has multiple service contracts in town including bosen's Marine McDougal's Marine Falmouth Marine this isn't pop through a few yacht clubs and do a few private persons HS this is a large and growing service Marine service business um hours of operation shall be limited to 7 to 7 uh this fall during the brsy season this business the employees were arriving at 6:30 in the morning for their morning meeting and then departing with the cars and the company vehicles around 7 to 7 30 deliveries for this business are from Kellogg marine supply and have been as early as 545 now you would think with all all of us coming here today everybody would have been on the best behavior and they have done several things in preparation for this cogg marine supply was there this morning at 5 minutes a 6 with a large 13,000 gross vehicle weight truck with a lift gate all the rest of that dropping supplies off I've lived in this property for over 30 years raising three kids here my property is on Gale and goes all the way to the front of this property on Pico path um I bought this house when it was spec built from the Pico family who owned all of this property all the way down to the water I have taken over that time the back third of my lot and planted it out and allowed it to grow in to have some privacy from pachico path there is not much however that I can do about the noise from a business applicant stated in the application that the base were leased by the same local contract for over 25 years and thought it was grandfathered they purchased the property in 2021 after buying the property from Mike and Robin Richard who had purchased the property from the Picos in 2005 while the Pico family owned the properties the bond was used for many things from store and old cars Jerry Pico when he owned Winston's restaurant here in town used it for overflow storage for the rest restaurant um friends and family stored items in the bond during their time there was never any big issues but one of the chicos lived on the street at all times the property was sold to the riches in 2005 who lived off cape and just started renting the place out um that is when most of the issue started during this time complaints were filed with a zoning enforcement officer listed in 2008 2009 2010 and 20 t with corrections made each time but the owners assur the officer that the brother Mr Enos who was just using the property for storage and no special permit was ever filed the owners have had the property for 3 years and felt it was grandfathered I'm not a professional property management company but even I would check with the zoning requirements before starting to rent out an adjacent building for a commercial business last year they took a fallen down stick bait and this has all occurred in the past year they took down a falling down stick Bay and I get it it's gorgeous now compared to the crap that was left there from the previous owners and the gentlemen that are behind especially Sunny who wrote The Letter sunny over the years cleared the back of his lot all the way to the property line which is pro close proximity to the back of the building where there was a large amount of stuff that he was now looking at on his new patio now that it's cleaned up Sunny's happiest can be he's in the back of the building I see the front of the building um so far in the course of one year um new siding has been put on the building a new roof the inside was professionally cleaned from any mold of animal issues that they had it's been upgraded on the electrical garage has a separate meter and it has now a commercial account with urce they have installed insulation wallboard constructed an office office and ran underground internet cabling to the office they've even now there's going to be a correction on house name a change um this lot supposedly is just for storage use they rented out the property to a growing Commercial Business Without proper permits I guess it's easier to ask for forgiveness rather than permission now the owner of this business and the reason why I can tell you more about this than anything is I am the general manager of one of the marinas here in town and I know exactly what Bob the owner of Northern Coastline business entails I like Bob and have recommended him to some of my customers and other businesses but this property is not commercially zoned and is business should not be in there he has had boats on the property uh over the fall doing sanding varnish work and like I said he has large accounts B since McDougal as well as others his supplies from Kellogg Marine is from Connecticut and even I only my Marina is zoned Marina we have no control when Kellogg comes they coming off out of state when they show up they show up and it depends on how many stops they have before you time slow down right now if you go look at the place out and back it's a ghost town come to my Marina other than the boats that are parked all over the place it's a ghost town also our busy season spring and fall and somewhat during the summer that's when all the service is going to happen Kellogg's Marine like I said has been at all times Friday December 20th after several times of I talking to Bob about things going on on this lot and the deliveries being made by con uh Kelloggs I texted him at 6:00 in the morning on December 20th after they just left that truck when it comes down if it's the smaller truck he can get the truck down and turn it around in the lot if he cannot if it's the bigger truck he has to back it from Davisville all the way down the street with the extra hogen lights with a backup alarm it pulls into the lot it's got a hydraulic lift gate that when you flop it down it's not that bad but when he puts it back up it slams in the guys are there talking it makes a ton of noise I texted Bob about it that Friday and basically he told me exactly what I told him before this all started I have no control over when Kelloggs makes the deliveries I'm sorry it woke you up there's nothing I can do about it and it continues right now it's quieting down but even this morning he had shrink wrap delivered the property's dead center in Davis Peninsula with the first speed limit sign of Davisville saying densely populated speed limit 30 while I'm for business it shouldn't be done in a residential area both the application and the gentleman has stated that it's a very isolated spot it is isolated on the right side with its conservation land if you're in the back of it you can see it from the property and was in the back from my property even though I have taken a third of my acre and a quarter lot and let it grow over I can still see the office door and and through the vegetation and I can tell you what truck's over there and what truck isn't now it isn't that isolated except on the right hand side pachico path originally was a dirt road and not a street once the Pico family sold the lower property and it was added into the Seas seos conservation that is when the town decided to make it a Town Road I lost a little bit of the back of my property so that could happen this property is the last piece of property as you get into the conservation area so the last thing you see which right now it's nice and quiet cuz it's winter but once spring hits you get a lot of cars driving down there it is water access to bourn's Pond there car is going down with kayaks canoes people going down there all the time they will be driving right by the front of this place which is not screened at all from the street in any way shape or form A lot's been said about that they haven't really been doing that much and it's pretty quiet I can drop you guys some pictures which the pictures I have show right in the start some of the electrical work that was being done some signage that was put up some of the original goings on that was there with the building and also there is one boat sitting in the front of the building right now that is shrink wrapped I can show you pictures of other boats that have been here only in this fall because it's only been this year that he's been operating out of that business a simple look at Northern coastlines website will say that this is just absurdity that this is being brought into the middle of a denle residential area um somebody mentioned the fact that you know you could put that take that out and put another building in it as we the previous thing that was brought up here is that there's a shortage of housing I would be all forced putting up with a year or two of bulldozers and a residential piece of property going in there because the property just by nature of the size of the building it's not going to be used given to the people that are renting to use for their cars they have no garage there is no garage available for them they're always going to try to keep this as a business and the owner of the business that is operating out of there right now has nothing to do with it and yes the majority of their work is offsite and yes there's only the two trucks but it's two trucks two trailers two Vans two of the employees right now are taking the Vans home so that they're not parked there overnight he has a lot of other employees especially in the spring and fall when he's heavy into work that drive there in the morning and then they drive also on site myself with having them in on the marina that I work for um Green Pond we have issues when they come in that I end up with two trucks two trailers a van and then other employees cars with one person per car so even at the Mariner I've told him you can't bring them all in here you got a Carol shove a couple of them in the truck so that they're not bringing the cars in at the same time so it is lighter on that but the initial idea and there have been boats over there with varnish work being done the other thing that I was surprised at and that was due to the application is one of the thing that comes up with that is with the Board of Health with a marine business it has to meet Board of Health requirements and that's one of their main like a auto repair shop that they look at very carefully even if he's using that business for storage the board of Health did not realize what business was going in there when they gave you it's okay based on the septic there is no increase in septic because there is no water or bathroom in the building at the present time however as a Marine service business they are required to get approval according to the code from the Board of Health based on what materials will be stored and kept in the building by the nature of this gentleman's business he lists and I've seen it done his spring business is bottom painting detailing hulls all of the bottom painting even if you're using water-based paint is high in heavy metals not a good item to be storing he also is a prop speed technician certified that is a two-part very harsh chemical based epoxy material you put on underwater gear when you apply that you are supposed to have basically almost a hazmat suit to put it on that will be stored on location he also does fiberglass work so you're going to hold on one sec does the board want to vote to give them five more minutes you're only supposed to have two minutes I'm pretty much done oh okay all right go ahead so it's all of those materials that even if it's primarily used for storage that's what's going to be stored on location it's not storing I don't know rubber duckies it's it is what it is is um so with that I'm good I will give you there was with the previous owners and there was a complaint filed when the complaint was filed by me with the zoning board it immediately was referred to him that you don't have a permit for this and to continue doing this you had to get a special permit that's what prompted this getting to what it happened today thank you and there is there two sets of photographs as to some of the stuff but thank you great thank you thank you sir thank you thanks anybody else we ask a followup questions of the app for a second thank you goe g we heard some testimony from an a butter and he submitted some photographs if you have seen these you might want to take a look but testimony this evening is that there is uh actual Marine Services being performed on the lot or in the Bays can you confirm or deny that I I can't either way um if there's photos of proof then I understand that but I have no comment on the business I was always told storage and go in there to get tools and then leave and go to yach clubs what about actual boat storage on the lot no I was not aware is there boat storage currently I haven't been in in a couple months there's one vote there got pictures of several votes I'm surrounded by boats where I live and I'm residential well yeah stored for commercial purposes though different well it could be his it could be someone's own boat there's one boat there now I believe but it could be personal we don't know yeah you're actually with some of the ones that are there got to come on I have no no more further any further questions for the applicant for anybody I just want to make one you applied sir identifying the owner as G and DH Properties LLC that's what it says on the application but then I think in response to a question from me you said you were the owner did you mean yourself or the corporation uh sorry the corporation is the owner all right and does gity Andor Properties LLC have any interest in the business being conducted in that building no all right thank you okay so what do we want to do here just one quick one on that just with the boat there's presently only one boat the boats were cleared out once this was coming to head there's only one boat sitting on the property right now was is shrink wrapped if someone stating that these are his boats all of the pictures and I can send them to you electronically you can give them to Greg down the ja Master's office and he can give you from the registration numbers exactly who owns them and it's not the business owner thank you thanks any suggestions dor this is not what we do this thing here this is a commercial Endeavor I don't do you want to invite the business operator to come in or don't they have to like reapply I think they got to clean up their application I'm not inclined to even vote for it the way it's presented still a withdraw I would suest yes that's the best way to I I think it is deal with it right now anyway and they can figure it out me I ask a question if we do a withdrawal without prejudice what does it say that he won't just continue doing this business as is and not come back to us I would say that they're going to get another complaint I mean we we have a gentleman here that will initiated this job he doesn't seem inclined to forget yeah he's not going to forget okay that's all I care about in terms of I mean just I don't know if the board wants have any discussion sooner or later when this comes back but what their their feelings are my my feeling at this point is this doesn't even qualify for a homebased service business for the reasons about corporate ownership about ten is who the actually is conducting business I have concerns that this is not mobile Marine Service it would be one thing if he was renting a 4 Bay garage just to store the boats that we're going out every morning but the testimony concerning deliveries of ser of of materials and so on is conserving uh we've had testimony that there's actual service being performed in The Bays or on property that would be impermissible and I'd be a no for that um this is seems unfortunately it's looking at the definition of a contractor's yard it seems that this is more in the definition of a contractor's yard problem with it the definition is that it's talking about construction contractor a subcontractor as opposed to services or so on I think it's time that this growing business sought out a Contractor Yard to operate out of I I would agree with you we also have questions with employees and we have questions with vehicles this just just too many questions here there's so contractor yards around it's time to start no we don't need it we don't need the own no I think I mean should the building department be looking at enforcement that's what I'm wondering if we withdraw with our prejudice what happens well I think he's going to end up doing as I suggested and they're pretty reasonable I mean we'll give him a window of time to well then let's let's talk about a window of time versus just we don't do enforcement we don't do enforcement forgot about that I mean it's it's not like anything's hidden anymore so just whatever we gave that uh that trailer owner a few months ago uh X months to remove that trailer if you remember on that site that she wasn't supposed to be on I mean is that not enforcing putting a timeline on enforcement it put well they had already run out of time they had gone over the year yeah and um so I think there we had a that was an offer that was kind of brokered between the she had building department and yeah Norine right so if we let this go without prejudice or he withdraws without prejudice then the abutters have to file a complaint to the zoning enforcement officer who would then make a ruling that's the way it works yeah okay well the other question I've got is that I believe and please let me know the application is for home occupation correct I think clearly that's deniable it's not home occation I don't know if the Bo has appetite to deny it on those grounds which would then trigger further review by The Building Commissioner I would suggest given that he's referred them but it's also amendable because he didn't even understand improper application so he should just allow him to withdraw without prejudice that would probably be the let the thing work itself out I mean and if it doesn't you got neighbors that are going to work it out for them I would agree with Mark yeah I do too appreciate your cleanup efforts sir but you better get this in order I don't think this board is going to would you like well through you madam chairman do you want to explain what the withdrawal yeah what we're proposing ton I think at this point speaking for myself if you're asking for a vote this evening I'll let you know personally I'm a no I think that the majority of the board would also deny it based on the evidence and testimony before us we're giving through you madam chairman the opportunity to withdraw the application without prejudice which would allow you to come back to the board you need to come up to the yeah Lector you would you've heard a lot of the questions concerns you've certainly heard a lot of testimony about uh what's been going on through your own testimony you said you haven't been there for a few months you might want to ask your tenant what's going on uh you could reapply and come back on a homebased service business but looking at the the comments and you can always watch them again on fctv those are the questions the board are going to have for you and those are the questions you know the issues that your abutter is certainly going to rise again and the questions that I think a lot of members of the board are going to have for you um and you you'll have to have some answers so my suggestion if you would like is that if you would like to withdraw your application uh I think the board would probably allow you to do that without prejudice uh if we vote no it's a no you have you can't come back for two years yeah I would like to withdraw all right thank you move to allow the applicant to withdraw without prejudice I'll second the motion we have a motion and a second any further discussion all those in favor of withdrawal no Prejudice I oppose none do you guys understand all that okay it's closed we didn't close we didn't close actually go ahead and ask go ahead and ask a question go ahead I'm going to allow it what the heck I'm Selena leech I live on 28 GF and I actually started it was filing a complaint with a zoning enforc officer in regards to the property and the business being conducted that it wasn't zoned as commercial zoning and the gentleman that's obviously in the for garage base he's renting them out he has done all the work and the repairs this is it wased question so yeah procedure now where it was withdrawn do we have to go now to the zoning enforcement officer to file another complaint in order for it to be technically enforced to tell what they can and cannot do on the premises okay all right all right thank you we kind of already told them I said we kind of already told There Goes My put away again got it all right moving along guys we doing any minutes uh we're taing you'll get them very soon not to worry all right we did blue flag zone administrator updates I don't know that I have anything to tell you that you haven't already heard really yeah busy busy busy but we're getting there okay Bo discussion we all have our email for the 25th I think it is 25th 9:00 a.m. 9:00 a.m. right get it yet but Saturday can't wait um way yeah we got wait in line updates anybody we're good future agenda items we got that thing and our next meeting is on January 23rd at 6 p.m. and now we're calling on Mark motion to adjourn all those in favor [Music]