##VIDEO ID:tSTsByRhUKQ## [Music] oh we're off welcome to the zba please silence all cell phones and note that this meeting is taped by fctv if there's any private party here recording the hearing please step forward to the podium and request permission I'll introduce the board and staff to my far right is Mark fineran a voting member next in is Scott Peterson a voting member to my closest right is Frank Duffy the clerk my name is Suzanne Murphy the chair to my left is James moris Vice chair to his left is Tony Puchi an associate and then we have Nick Hanny on the end we have noren Stockman a zoning administrator and Ashley Dello an office assistant the zoning board of appeals is charg with applying the state zoning statutes as well as the town's zoning bylaws in reviewing and voting on applications all this is all decisions are made through the public hearing process our goal is to hear testimony from the applicants and the public into allow a full and fair discussion of the project prior to closing the hearing process and reaching a decision number one to begin each cheering the clerk will read the public announcement for the hearing and read pertinent information from the file two the applicant or applicant's representative will then have 15 minutes to make a presentation but the time may be extended by a vote of the board three the board will then question the applicant and four the public will then be invited to comment comment should be limited to 2 minutes and be strictly related to The Proposal all members of the public wishing to speak should wait to be recognized by the chair and should come to the podium please state your name and address for the record and please speak into the microphone it will amplify your voice and record audio for the fct TV viewers we also have a a moment now if anyone wants to make a public statement with about anything that's not on our agenda and we're not going to comment on it but you're free to have a public comment if you'd like is there anyone that wants to make a public comment and that's all so we'll move on we have three continuations tonight and we're starting off with 17 Walker good evening for the record I am Laura moyan Falmouth uh from fth an attorney for the applicant um I think we were last here in October uh I did file a letter November 25 just um highlighting what I thought were the last few issues from the um peer review um one of them was the EV operation space which we've just said that uh that was deferred to the building permit process which we're we're fine with um I think it is appropriate for the Building Commissioner to um tell us and interpret what code Provisions apply obviously whatever he requires we will have to comply with um motion sensors in the garage we uh the applicant has no objection to that recommendation um and then the last item I think that um we didn't quite get a high five on from the um bills and Thomas was the uh parking garage Isle width um but we have I think provided you with a wealth of information on why we feel that you can approve it uh with the 20ft aisle width um based on um you know other standards that are available in the town um I Mr Borelli um was also good enough to provide some photos which I thought you might be interested in um just to sort of show you uh let's see of course I now I can't find it oh dear I'm so excuse me I'm sorry about this okay well I don't seem to see it on there but I do have a hand copy that I can show you or hand in for the record to circulate this is a um parking garage in I'm sorry about that this is a some photos of a parking garage in Boston uh sou Boston where um Mike's family lives and um there it's showing a small condominium parking garage um you can see just from the nature of the garage you know what it looks like it's a different type of setup than an exterior parking area and the aisle width there is 14 ft so um that works in this kind of confined space here we have 20 so we just thought that that was maybe a useful sample um for the board to see that they do exist at less than 20 um um and lastly I um did feel that because of this issue um as I said I I think we've done everything we can on it um but if the board does feel that the provision of the zoning bylaw that applies to exterior parking lots for an aisle width of 24 ft is applicable here we've argued that it isn't because we don't have two-way travel we have only oneway travel um and that we do not have standards specific to parking garages but I did actually update our list of waivers just for a procedural technicality again in the in the event the board deems that provision applicable then you'd have on the record the um applicant's waiver request great thanks and that's all that I have so happy to answer any questions if you have them and again I apolog iiz about that visual but I had it there on the disc Mark do you have any questions on this project um no uh well yes um and it's very small and minor but um the uh last time uh the tower that faces um Main Street yes I just thought that it was a little bit land MH and uh there still uh was that I still um I mean it's minor I mean I have to say I I I think you've done a pretty decent job here consider the amount of shoehorns you had to use um but uh and I mean it's a minor uh detail if you will but uh you know that's I think it could be improved a little bit with something there so you're looking for some more architectural yeah I think it's kind of you're I think it's going to stand out more than it even shows now and uh I just somebody could get a little creative there that's all I mean it's it's it's a minor criticism yeah honestly um and I think uh you've done well with the extra couple feet and I thought that was certainly warranted um in you know view of uh the need we have for affordable housing and uh what's happening downtown anyway whether we like it or not um but really at the moment that's that's all Evan is here the architect do you have any thoughts on you want to come to the podium I mean um sure so for the record my name is Evan stalman of cola design with a business address of 17 ivalu Street in Somerville um we did review this with the peer reviewer Cliff uh it was brought up that we could try to add a window there but that wouldn't be compliant with the building code because that before um we can we can dress it up a little bit add some more traditional elements and clock I mean clock or something I mean my eye says that that's going to be more visible than it appears on any of these black white gray whatever colored prints and I mean it's it's a minor criticism not going to break anything or anybody but uh you know people are going to be looking at this thing for the next 50 years yeah definitely and uh like I said it's minor I mean I probably should have even mentioned it but it just caught my eye and I think it's going to catch everyone else's eye too yeah that's understandable you know um CU I'm I'm not the architect you are but like I said that's it yeah we'll we'll do something for the uh building permit well we could agree to a condition that we add a clock on that I mean just something it's it's just I'd rather it does kind of stand out in and of itself and it it is kind of bland and I mean you know it is Main Street I mean just off Main Street like I said I I'm it's not not a I I mean I'd prefer it be more specific if that if you're you know if you're satisfied with a clock we can agree to a condition that we add a clock that was just a you know I mean it it look at it and then once the building's built I mean I think it's going to be even more uh obvious that it's kind of bland and it is the first thing that's going to catch your eye when you're driving down that street every time or by that street every time okay you know I understand the window doesn't work but uh and you know and whatever that's it I'm done okay thank you onward uh unfortunately unfortunately almost the exact same can you pull up the front elevation from 91 and then uh the front elevation from 1028 just so folks I guess from at home can see what materially has changed since we have the architect with you right now sure I the old plans I can certainly bring up the new ones or you could just maybe speak to the changed something's going on here with this files are an opening I don't know why there's something going on with the disc if you right click on it and hit open with okay application okay [Music] there's an Adobe Reader on here no there is that's strange yeah is there some is the Adobe gone off of this or Bill Gates fault you didn't renew your subscription that I I'm okay with it I I no further question I just thought it would be educational for folks at home to see what the changes were but okay than Frank I'll defer to you try restarting it questions I don't no questions Frank Jim you have any question no questions thank you Tony I um I think it's a slight improvement over what you started with I don't think it's quite fouth but it's hard to complain it's a very little lot it's difficult lot to design in um it's 40b this is what you get when you have 40 BS um I agree with Mr finer and I wishing that was not such a length spot but I think with that uh frame area that you put in there it's certainly going to break it up a little bit more um hopefully the buildings in front of it will never come down because you don't want to look at that blank wall from Main Street but I I have to say with the extra 2 feet creating that bathtub area to to hide all the Mechanicals since there's really no place else to put them um really makes a difference it's unfortunate that the historic district but I think by boxing out the rakes a little bit doing some I'm going to call it Crown around the tower area I think it made a difference um I really have not much to say about it I'm glad you made the changes thank you Nick El say anybody else have a last minute question before we go to the public anybody from the public want to speak on this wow okay it's your lucky day so what would you like to do I think we should the motion to close second I have a motion to close in a second all those in favor I I all right motion to approve with conditions I'll second that there you go we have a motion to uh approve with conditions um I don't know if we want to dig into this now the findings and all I would suggest we we the administrator to draft draft a because she doesn't have enough work already yeah she's I would ask chairman if we want to invite the applicant to propose any language that they might want to see Incorporated in the decision that we will consider but yeah be happy to submit a draft if that would help with the workload we're always happy to do that that's up to Norine okay and wey oh no we have to within 40 days we then have to approve the uh the decision so we're all set to vote yeah right everybody's all set all those in favor time time we close the hearing yes we we we would ask the uh zoning administrator with and the applicant if they wish to submit any language to draft a decision an approval decision with the appropriate right conditions and then I would if we want to if the board members have any specific conditions or findings they want to Incorporated in they can email them to for us to review right the board then has to V at some point within 40 days on the decision at that point chairman okay got it so we're proposing to look at a draft on January 9th all right that's okay with you yes January 9th okay thank you yes and our next hearing I'm Laura you can stay because I think we have West f with the State schedule next but I'm still receiving emails I just got one tonight when I walked in the door and you're all set with your last one almost so I'd like to um are we all set for the 9th and I just want Mo continue we do need a motion to continue to the 9th on the last I'll move to continue 055 2417 Walker Street to uh January 9th 2025 6m with a vote anticipated that evening on the decision 202 I'll second all those in favor of the continuation I sorry about that guys anyway we'll take another vote quickly to move fouth Housing Trust up next so that Laura can head out if that's okay with it everybody up here yes yes works for me all those in favor of moving to do the uh Housing Trust I I I oppose [Applause] none so we're going to move to um 419 witho that's okay with you Laura I hope this drive works could be a bad night up there right I don't know well I restarted the computer it it looks like the PDFs aren't coming up can you tried rebooting it I did yeah adobe's temperamental yeah doesn't like it that it started to snow check there's there are some PDFs on here okay so now it's working for somebody else um okay so for the record I I am Laura moan I am the executive director and in-house Council for the Falmouth Housing Trust um this project is at 49 woit highway just going to spend a few minutes we we've submitted a lot of information in writing we're very thankful for the work that the engineering department uh Scott schulter has done to assist um on this project Tim Santos is here from meril engineering um so the um last few issues I think um there were was an item in the last update from from engineering about adding catch basins on both sides of the roadway that was addressed um Scott did confirm that today by email that that was um overlooked uh in his last letter so we've taken care of that The Monuments um we can the applicant can agree to a condition to install concrete Bounds at all lot Corners as recommended uh with a spike instulation for the lot Corner in the shared driveway for three and four as recommended by engineering um those would be shown on the definitive plan and uh which would be submitted to you for Signature um if you um approve the permit um we would like to stay with the broad caps for the easement Corners to be defined um we feel that they can be satisfactorily defined this way um but through the recorded survey plans these are again um drainage and utility areas so they're not really areas that the homeowners need to be concerned about they're more for the utility companies in the town um and we just feel that it's a lot of concrete bounds out there um on the parcel and that the rod caps um would be more suitable um for the um defining the easement areas so those are are now as shown on the definitive plan um item 44 was recommended by engineering that um Cape Cod BMS extend across the driveway openings to protect the road surface on Lots three and four and the applicant can agree to that condition as recommended um the applicant acknowledges um as suggested that plowing on the shared driveway would not be a town obligation no problem um the road curb cut at woit Highway um Mass do has moved this to the 75% approval stage which which is good um they you if you're not familiar with the state process you submit your design plans they give you what they call a 25% approval preliminary approval and then they tell you that they're moving it to the what they call the 75 100% approval process so um we're expecting that will take place by the end of De December but uh they haven't um uh identified any issues thus far um so that approval is subject to the state um jurisdiction um the town engineering department and the Town Street opening permits and their regulations only apply if it's a town right of way which it is not so we feel that we have to follow the mass do standards um and requirements and that the town standards are not applicable um the um site distances do meet the ashto standards for safe sight distance and will be almost 400 ft in each Direction um and they do meet the state standards um which has been confirmed um so the board could condition any comprehensive permit of course subject to mass do issuance of a curb cut approval permit which obviously we would need in order to um secure a building permit um the planning board referral I just wanted to address quickly um the the main point was that the planning board had uh suggested that three houses that face wqu Highway could be turned to face the proposed Road um in the design process um for the project we did look at various options for the design we did look at that one as well as a culdesac option um the issue is that the lot actually Narrows as it goes deeper into the parcel and I don't think the planning board was considering in that recommendation that we have a 44t wide Road layout and then we would have to meet Town standards a 25 ft setback off the road so we're now into a situation where we don't have enough lot depth for those three homes to be turned that way um so that's the process that we went through with Tim and his office in the in the design um trying to look at various options um for um the homes and um as it turned out um the design that was chosen was to continue that Village setting and continue the home along wqu highway to complement the mixed um commercial and residential um use area um so um I did discuss the issue that the planning board raised about the potential traffic noise um with the contractor and can offer a few things so these homes will be set back 35 ft from the state road layout um if you look look at the plans you'll see that the pavement is actually almost another 20 ft in so you're really looking at 50 to 55 ft of setback from the actual pavement and and the the vehicle use um the houses will be built under the new energy code and the comment that the contractor said was that you wouldn't hear a gunshot in that house because you have 200 Windows you have um the double pane argon gas filled you have R30 um closed cell Insulation at 4 and 1 12 in and you have therat true solid door exterior doors so we we appreciate the comments of the planning board and I just wanted to let you know that we didn't ignore them we did look at uh various design options and and Tim can comment more on that if you want more information and end it up with this one for all of those reasons um the Board of Health um and the septic systems um the Board of Health did approve the um Advanced treatment Nitro systems on Monday night um individual systems for each lot um those um systems because they're Advanced treatment they require Board of Health approval that is a voluntary um upgrade from the applicant um in connection with the 300 committee um as part of this project as I explained the last time um that we we we offered it in in a you know in an effort to not only preserve open space on this parcel but also Water Resource protection the health agent did update his referral to you to confirm that the individual systems would require the um approval of the Board of Health um there is no bylaw or regulation requiring a shared system here um the coastal pwn overlay district and the subdivision regulations speak to certain nitrogen loading standards and environmental impact reports if you have more than five Lots so those are really the only Provisions in the zoning bylaw or the subdivision regulations that can sort of govern Advanced treatment in in a sense but they don't apply here because we are not more than five Lots we are five Lots so I think that um that that we we and the health agent and the health department are all or Board of Health are all on the same page that there is no requirement for this Advanced treatment um or for a shared system Mr finner and had asked about the cost of the shared system so I did go back and look at that again so the issue with the shared system is that if you propose a shared system then the health regulations require you to treat at 12 mg per liter or less that's where the added expense comes in um and so it's a it's a quite a bit more expensive um we've priced it out both ways here and it is more expensive to do a shared system and treat to that level there's also the issue of needing to have a generator power source a pump so that there's a common infrastructure that's required for the shared system and that means um collection of dues HOA um self a self-governing situation for these five homeowners um we feel very strongly that the individual systems are the better way to go um because each homeowner is responsible for their own system um there wouldn't be any common assessments needed which again when you're dealing with 100% affordable project you have um you don't have market rate units that subsidize the affordable HOA fees so we try we always try to do our projects without HOA fees they also go to buyer um eligibility issues in qualifying for mortgages because the HOA fee gets tagged on to the um to the buyer uh approval process so explained all that to the board of Health on Monday night and they agreed that the individual systems were were okay and they approved them so um those are all my comments and I'd be happy to answer any questions that you may have stop down that in um my comment and question on the uh cost was actually kind of just sticking my foot in the political door because uh unfortunately we're not at the time and place yet but uh a shared Title Five system and Ur in diversion would kill two birds with one stone and save you enough money to build other house easy what um just out of curiosity what is the cost of that overpriced system of a shared system no the of the individual well IAS that you're putting in there are they're priced out at at you know around 40 each 40 to 45 something like that 50 it's it's difficult because we have obviously when we do our pricing we have um in kind donations we also have um you know by purchasing and having all five installed at once there are discounts that are applied so um but that's about where we're at now um for each system so yeah um bad in the future maybe well but I mean it it's I'm sorry I don't want to get no that's okay for our field but um I think it's an absolute no-brainer and spending all this extra money um unnecessary in my mind and I know I'll be proven right I think it's already been proven to be honest yeah I think the the found Housing Trust feels pretty strongly that if we're going to be building five affordable homes there we don't want our home owners to be in a situation where they're they're required to upgrade yeah in three four 5 years whatever that is um and the Nitro system does treat to 12/ 11 milligrams per liter it's the best system that's received approval which is the other Factor that I explained you know urine diversion and other pilot uh type projects we we we can't get those approved you know we have to propose something so no an ideal test project though but there possibly but you know without getting like you say too much into the weeds um you know there are costs associated with urine diversion um as well and so leave it at that for now but but certainly we can't propose that because it's not approved technology um but anyway we did we did feel that this was the right thing to do for this um this area of w um with the financial support um through a donation from the 300 committee we're able to propose it and so that's why we're we're proposing it but anyway Scott I just think the way that you ran the project and kind of ticked all the boxes you did a great job at assessing all the hurdles and did a you know just a really robust assessment and I think it's a good project and thank you for stepping up and do the nitrogen additional that's that's that's great thank you thank you yeah you're welcome I appreciate your U agreement to put concrete uh monuments at lot Corners like because of the size of this lot and the the fact that you have a lot of lot lines that are very close together I can see a lot of problems in the future uh if these lot lines were not actually demarcated by by um by bounds because there's not much room for error here um I would like one lot line however has kind of puzzled me and I'd like perhaps you to give me an explanation the the lot line between paved proposed paved roadway and lot five seems to run right through the um parking space for lot five and also it looks like it's running right through the yard why is it there why didn't you make it the same uh or coterminous coexistent with the um pave driveway [Applause] uh in this area here well you got a lot Line running right through the the parking space and yeah it does running right over right through the front yard and I'm just wondering why you chose to do it as opposed to something different putting at at the edge of the of the uh oh of the driveway roadway oh um well it may have been just to put more lot area in Lots 2 three and four um but that's not lot that it doesn't help lot two three and four at all that's true do you want to comment on that I'll show you that's a good pickup it's right in here this see this piece on the south of the driveway why not just run the lot line across across the driveway so that that area is incorporated into lot five uh for the record Tim Santos from meril Engineers uh I believe what we were trying to do was equalize all the Lots area-wise so if we um um kind of slid that lot line up on lot five I believe that's what you're saying move it up to the north then we're reducing the lot size on lot um two and three but does it make any difference I don't think the people in Lots two or three care no it really doesn't but from a pral point from a practical point of view but what we were trying to do is just equal the lot areas I mean we can certainly move that I would ask you to think about it cuz I think it's going to be very annoying for somebody to have a lot Line running through the yard yeah I don't that's not a big deal we we can move driveway too I me yeah I mean it's a good point Mr Duffy I I think that was probably more like sometimes you get so caught up in the in the requirements that you don't see the forest through the trees you know and and I mean I I agree so we we can move that lot line up to um adjacent to the driveway so that would allow for more lot area on lot five and and a little bit of less lot area on Lots two and three yeah the fact that you don't have perfect equality I don't think will bother anybody okay but that would make lot five about 9500 Square ft and that would be by far the largest lot yeah but be no equity there and they in the back Lots two and three got plenty of backyard space so yeah I I don't think it will make a difference to two and three to be on the other side of the driveway so we can make that change on while we're on lot five I noticed that you don't have a walkway going from the parking space to the um to the house you're going to have to just walk across your yard or because you have a walkway to all the other houses true um well it we have we have one in on three and four so we did not put put one in we did not put them in on uh one 2 and five yeah you got them on proposed gravel walkway on on all the other Lots yeah yeah mhm you do oh okay well I can show you um something that that so hopefully my disc will work so this is this is what we could do um you know obviously these are cost issues but um you know we we this came up at the last meeting as well you know we're trying to preserve the backyard space of some of these but this would be a short path to the back of five this would be another one into lot two and then this would be the front yard walk into into lot five so you know if if the board does want to see those connections talking about um you have it there but you don't have it at the back I would not not to okay so well this is just a a suggestion I mean it's I'm looking at this plan but you have it on here on lot five and you don't have it on this print no because this is just a sketch that we did up for sort of discussion purposes I haven't filed this um you know when we were looking at so your intention is to put that proposed walk there if if the board feels that these path additions should be added this is what we could propose is what we're saying well the in the case of what is that it's lot um this is lot one lot one now you you've got a a pathway to the front door yes it seems kind of strange because it doesn't really connect with anything except the road does no parking there right U but then you've got one shown on that plan to the back door yes which probably makes more sense yes but on the plan I'm looking at on lot five there's absolutely no walkway anywhere right so this is what we could do if you felt that that was necessary I I tend to think it is I do see how you can give everybody else one and not give them one okay and what about these two in here then are those you think that if if you don't feel those are necessary then we would leave those off and we would just show the path here on lot five that one's kind of necessary in two cuz they're going to be parking in here that's the way they're going in I mean these are not you know these are not there for look it's never going to get used yeah I think it's useless it's Mark Mark is right on point there so one two and five would require okay the people on the other Lots three and four have a long walk but yeah well it's about 40 I think I it about 40 ft all right all right well I'll file this for the [Applause] record okay great thanks I'll let you do it you know obviously this project is is 100% affordable we're fighting the clock on construction costs you know we have a fundraising um need of about $550,000 for this project so while you know we don't need to get into costs and things and just I'm always trying to anticipate what the board might want because timing is critical for us costs are going up every month every time you know I talk to the contractor we have building code changes we have you know now we have the plants closing and and the bids that we have have for pavement are going to be going up 10% in the spring so so that's why we took the liberty of doing this just in the event it was something that you were um felt strongly about it's there on the record I would just take your walkway money from the highway and move it down to lot five well take those ones that are in you know that are on the highway you don't really I think they're not going to be used much I think the money they'll save on trick or readers yeah yeah well I mean maybe what we can what we can do you know sometimes with these projects is once you get into the construction phase you can see where the buildings are cited better you can see what works better and it might be something that we might come back to for an administrative modification just to say okay this doesn't really work that works better um but for the purposes of like I say moving forward forward and securing a permit you know time is is critical for these kinds of projects so um that may be where we end up when the when the houses or the foundations are in if if you're inclined to Grant the permit we would just look at the path structure again and come back but the idea with the pass off of woid Highway was really to try and create that pedestrian amenity for people to be able to you know come out of the front of the houses and um so create more of that Village um look uh design element are you all set for yeah I'm all set thank you thank you have you met with the post office is this going to be individual mail uh no we did show on the revised plan um it's it's up the common mailbox yeah uh so it'll be it will be a common mailbox I did call the Post Office and talk more with them about it and that's what they're going to want um so let's see I think it's up by lot one if I remember yeah was it so up in here in this location oh it's over that side okay okay and is that where Amazon and all the packages are going to go also or are they going to go to the house is that enclosed or it's just one of those standup it's a stand up so the for ma packages will have to go to the porches I imagine unless do you I'm assum they just go they go to the pches can't use mail postal lock for delivery so right and how are you handling EV if any of that comes up um just per case the the homes will be wi you can my understanding is is that the homes will have the electrical capacity for Ev and for solar but that we would not be installing that but if the homeowners in the future wanted to um you know take advantage of whatever grants are out there or doing that that the infrastructure would be in place okay great thanks Jim questions of the previously addressed thank you Tony I thank you very much for the Ia systems I mean this is something this town is going to is going to have to go to the state administ is is going to require it I know we have plans to move forward on it but thank you one of the things that I always I'm concerned about is and I think you may have covered this earlier on is that those first I don't know what is it four years of IIA systems the uh testing that's done yes aren't you putting money aside for the testing this is affordable housing yes so um we would be uh setting up an escrow account um that the Housing Trust would administer our hope is that we can negotiate a contract for all five um homes to have the test in all done at once and we would cover that those initial two years or until the quarterly um testing it's either two years or 3 years 3 years then we can apply to have that testing reduced um under the Board of Health regulations to once a year I believe at that point so um that's that is the plan you know we had we incorporated that into the cost Factor there's about uh it's about roughly $600 the annual operating maintenance I roughly I mean we haven't received quotes yet like I said our hope is to you know negotiate that um with with the inspection company to try and get it down but um wish is yeah well I think it's it's good I mean the point is you're going to do that you're going to take care of it it they are little expensive to maintain and I think it's a wonderful thing you're doing with that um my concern is always uh pride of place with affordable housing that we and I think you've done a nice job designing the layout I think you've done a nice job designing the houses some of the things that I worry about is when I see uh this is going to be a homeowners association is that what's going well there'll be a there will be a set of covenants of um covenants easements and restrictions that will be recorded against the title to each lot um we we don't normally require a homeowners association for something this small um mainly because if there isn't any common infrastructure such as with a shared septic system um there there really isn't any need for du's collection to administer that and also with these small developments you know you're dealing with with people people who are working raising their children there's not a lot of time there to be self-governing um running a a homeowner a formal homeowners association so we try to set up the developments to not have an a formal HOA in place where people are voting and meeting and that kind of thing but there will be a set of um covenants and in the past with with I think it was the last project on Lewis Neck Road um there was a we we would submit those um to the board you know as a condition of the approval that that the board would see those and that they would be in place before the lots are conveyed out so there's no uh if you end up moving this lot line on uh out to the common driveway the only common area would be that driveway it would be it would be a driveway that would be a shared between the the three lots yeah yeah so that would be the the only common area and so because there are no homeowners association dues and I see a lot of um wood chips and gravel I don't have a problem with that those things wear out very very quickly and when there's no uh common area that's being maintained you know what does this look like in 5 years from now because again pride of place is to me speaking as one member is very important to see that um and the type of materials being being used and I understand why I'm not complaining about that part of it gravel uh dissipates quickly wood chips definitely go away in 3 years who's going to take care of that maintain this well typically we impose the obligation on the homeowners that are using the so in this in that example the shared driveway for 2 three and four we would impose a shared maintenance responsibility on those three lot owners I mean we can C ly set up an HOA you know in the covenants it's easy enough to do and we can provide for a an what I would say a nominal annual assessment of $100 or something like that so that there's a kind of a a kitty being collected but what we what I'm saying is what we try to get away from is a formal HOA like you see with a condominium where there's you know monthly dues being paid you have to have somebody governing that collecting that um so we we try to design the developments to stay away from those common expenses but um we can certainly hear you know set that up in the covenants for a small H I'm not trying to make this more difficult no I understand what you're saying I I just know what happens to property when it's set up this way in 5 years in that when we all drive by this 5 years from now we want to have that same Pride that we feel right now that you've created thousand trust is created by doing a project like this I don't have the legal mind necessary to tell even suggest to you how you might do this that I have to leave up to you and hope that it works out well but something like this will deteriorate very quickly if it's not maintained appropriately so I I thank you very much for putting this together and those are all my comments yeah well we you know while while the Housing Trust believes in the pride of home ownership and homeowners taking care of their own properties um and that and we we work to set them up for success for that um we we of course are always here and we're always you know keeping an eye on our developments um we're often monitor are the monitoring agent for developments so um but I think I mean we just haven't really gotten that far along in the legal process yet but I but I think from what you're saying that that should be something that we could easily propose is a simple HOA with an annual um fee to be paid that isn't going to adversely impact the buyer's ability to secure a mortgage so that there's some collection of a fund um as time goes on I'll leave that up to you thank you foring that because I'm thinking out loud here thank you Nick you have any questions I don't great project looks nice yeah I appreciate you putting the sheds on the plan too thank you it's like Trish foui with the bike rack you know she always wanted her bike rack you know for years and now now you want the sheds so so I I do have a question so if you have the houses uh Eevee ready for if somebody wanted to have um a vehicle that they were going to plug in would they not need to bring the vehicle closer to the dwelling to actually be able to plug it in to charge it well we're not going to have we won't have the houses e ready no but I mean if if there's an option for a homeowner to have an EV and they could just dig up conduit to charge the driveway they they would bring it from the house so cuz I was just thinking would it make sense to have perious papers or something so that if somebody had young children you're trying to carry kids gross stroller from a car and it's snowing or raining to a house people tend to want to park as close as possible if you have heavy items I just didn't know if it made sense potentially to consider that well we did um in a lot of different ways you know um we're we're we're dealing with a housing crisis people are desperate to be able to buy homes at you know 2 250 to $350,000 so something gives a bit in that and um you know we we sort of looked at this in the design that it's almost more like a condominium complex where you know you you do walk from your car to your to your entryway and that's that's what you do you know um so um but again by changing the design around we're also giving up Backyard space which we felt was very important so any further followup up here before we go to the public good nor you all set everybody's good anybody from the public want to comment on this project great you're on a roll we are on a roll we have a date for this Norine January 23rd anybody want to give me a motion motion to close no no no continue motion to sorry motion to continue until January 23rd right 23rd sorry any further discussion you were on the yeah was on the any further discussion you're all set no all those in favor I oppose none great thank you is it possible for the board to consider voting to request a positive decision for the 23rd I mean we're just we're we're you know that's a month and more away and then then we're probably a month after that so again we really are dealing with trying to get these homes built and construction costs and we're dealing with 140 BS on this side I know I know but at least if you let check the well so we have a scheduling potential scheduling snafu and so it it may not be possible because it may wind up that we would have two 40 BS on the same night right so I think we have to defer a draft at this time I mean if we have extra time we could start on it but I I can't commit to the because of the rest of the scheduling right now yeah do we want to ask for a draft con I mean the date isn't as important as the consensus of the board because we have we can do a lot of work between now in that date and we can commit funds to things if we feel that the board uh you know there's a consensus to to vote a positive project uh is what I'm saying we have to demolish the building you know we have we can move to construction plans we're trying to get a March 1 construction start date so you know putting it to January 23rd and then having a motion and then having a draft decision you're you're now looking at February and then you have an appeal period so so we're looking at two three months out so right but we we also have uh three 40s anyway that are all on a similar time schedule and I I think it's unfair to the board to expect you to review two comprehensive permits on one night I think that's an overload so I think at this point in time given the schedules of these cases and other cases you have pending you could wind up committing yourself to more than we can fulfill in one night yes any and as I halfway as I said I'm not as concerned about the date as perhaps a vote to ask the administrator to draft a positive decision if that if can't that can't happen on the 23rd because the board is too has too heavy of a workload and it gets bumped out a little bit I I understand that but waiting from December 5th to January 23rd to find out if the board is inclined by consensus to vote for a positive tra draft to be written means we're now putting it a month out into February and then another month into March go for it I didn't uh notice too many negatives my suggestion through you madam chairman is why don't we just have a little discussion about where everyone is on this project I think that's yeah I think we kind of and and Laura has a sense of it as well I great project is my vote yeah I I didn't notice any negatives anyway so I don't see how it's not proceeding as she hopes and in lie of the costs I I I I I think it's a reasonable request at least a Meer some kind of halfway um Jim no I'm inclined to approve with conditions U I'm not seeing any red flags I think there's a lot of it's checking off a lot of boxes as as the board has indicated M um I don't want to overwhelm the and is there's other applicants we need to be fair of and but we just looking for yeah you have also several regular cases that are ongoing as well as other 40 be those other people and so yeah making a commitment to being able to do a draft for this case that night as well as potentially another one is just not possible so I'm just being honest yeah I think noran is right yeah an awful lot on the table I mean I think we all expressed that we really appreciate this project yeah um and that it will most likely keep moving forward if the applicant wants to submit a draft that can get the ball I'd be happy to submit a draft absolutely if I can submit a draft next week for consideration on the 23rd or whenever the board is next available to to review it what I'm saying is you're we're at December 5 th and that schedule is now putting us probably into February to have something filed and into March I mean that's three months away you know and I I I understand how busy the board is I I really do and I I know that you that you put a lot of time in but but all I'm asking is that if you were to vote for a draft positive decision table it to the 23rd if you're not able to get to it on the 23rd then put it off another week or two but at least we're closing that Gap from now until January 23rd with nothing right that's like how many weeks is that that's six seven weeks from now with nothing we have a few holidays too I'm you know here's the if if we had the capacity I would do all of them tonight and have them ready for you tomorrow I don't have that capacity no um you know we're not delaying anything here this project is you know certainly moving fine as far as time wise goes we're not up against the 180 days there's no issue here you know we're certainly making every effort we can well respectfully you know when you're dealing with 100% affordable housing project and we have still a significant need in the community it is appropriate to priorize projects you know it it's it's different at least if the applicant is willing to submit a draft to assist the staff who are so busy why isn't that being accepted I mean it it was for years I've submitted many drafts we may have another case that we would have to vote the same night well then you bump us noren I like I said I have no objection to that but at least we're closing that gap between now and January 23rd at least we know there's some vote out there to draft a positive motion the applicant can consent that if on the 23rd you do not have the capacity to review the draft then put it out to another meeting that's fine but at least we're closing that gap between now and 678 weeks from now well we have nothing I mean we do have till April 15th by legally and I understand what a Tre morning saying but we got a lot in front of us and a lot to consider people think that that we just sit around you know doing nothing I think but takes a lot of work to be prepared every night every every week I certainly don't feel that way but I also think that the applicants are willing to work with you as well if you let them if I get a phone call that says the board does not have the capacity to review this draft tonight I'm not going to say anything other then okay give me the next date so we're willing to work with you as well to to assist the process you know but we're not being given that opportunity that's all I'm asking for we looking to overwhelm Norine but if we ask that one start to be drafted if if you can't Norine can't get to it she can't get to it it's like I think that's more than realistic Contin to the 23rd but if we're not ready we're just going to have to move we may well in fact ask for that help on the 23rd so having it beforehand might not gain her but yeah well at least we know at least we know it's it's in the works rather than waiting six seven weeks to find that out but you could end up with conditions that maybe you don't agree with we can amend them okay yeah as long as that happens she can submit language we still to vote on every single I just don't want the project to get caught up in something that SLS down even further we don't have to agree to anything no it wouldn't yeah but might help the mechanics of it anyway go through it it's just the mechanics of it that's a good word right we've contined to the 23rd of January we would Grant attorney moan permission to submit a proposed decision to the understanding that if on the 23rd of January we are not ready to vote on it we have the right to continue it to another date within the 180 days want a second that one Scott that's sounding good I I believe I can second that yes thank you does that sound good to everybody Norine you okay with that okay boy am I in trouble call the question have to V uh all those in favor I I opposed you said about us having a on their our plate I'll have you know that I left a steak and potatoes and mixed vegetables on my plate at home literally lights out of it I feel badly yeah you're crying two tears out of one eye for we do thank you and we do appreciate everything you do and I certainly understand the workload so we we're more than willing to work with you thank you we were excited to have Thanksgiving off last Thursday I know I know and Halloween too how bad it is and we had Halloween and Fourth of July it's quite a big G it's a sum total vac year well I'll tell I mean this might help we're just recently um closing on a home for a Workforce family that um family of four that have been living in an 800 square foot apartment for eight seven eight years and we're pretty much ready to have to leave the community so you know th that that's who we're serving and that's why there is a rush because people are leaving because the opportunities are not there and we don't want to lose them and the longer time goes on the more the more we're going to lose so thank you for understanding that we're trying to do the best we can we really are appreciate it all right thank you thank you happy holiday thank you too all right moving on West fouth the states oh than give me a it is you have to read it yeah hi my name is Robert Pina um one second please I'm sorry one second please it says to read it in okay right here's a letter to read in that was requested to read in we received a letter from Phyllis Littleford who's a lady who was an abutter to this project she's been here before and has spoken in person but she submitted a letter today 4:00 um and asked it be read so I'm going to read it it's not too long so bear with me to whom it may concern please see the April 25th 2024 document which was submitted by the developer a proposed curve to the entrance is still the same I am requesting it to be moved 10 to 30 ft to the north it still potentially limits access to 15 North bouth Highway request Mass dop that's do Department of Transportation opinion only section those of the subdivision regulations the proposed water drainage lot would pose a problem as it could be a breeding ground for mosquitoes it is too close to a Butter's boundary the landscape plan does not satisfy me because I need exact placement and number of feet into the developer property I am concerned with fences touching my property boundary because this would not be acceptable I need an answer from the landscaper regarding placement of trees shrubs as in a butter article 7 overlay District no comment section 240- 7.8 Wildlife Corridor of the zoning bylaw do not wave Wildlife need to keep their habitat I have huge wild turkeys walking through my property coyotes running up to the front of my house and using my driveway closest to 19 North Balou Highway and deer feeding on my rose bushes do not wave any local filing fees building permits water sewer fees or reviewer or inspection fees please read these statements during the Thursday December 5th 2024 meeting thank you Phyllis Littleford and that's the end of the letter thank you Frank okay I know tonight the peer engineer is here and so uh there's a couple of other people here on my behalf uh the development's behalf uh Vicky Mitchell from Peter dagel deel off from is here and uh Ed Montero who I uh you know we go we speak closely on anything to do with the septic systems and uh other things regarding the development so he's here speaking as well so I'm going to just turn it right over to um I guess whoever you guys want first I would imagine you want the uh peer engineer I would like to do the paer first yeah if that's okay no problem that's okay with everybody up here yeah good evening M good evening um for record Matt Cody with BS and Thomas um so our most recent letter uh was issued to the board on November 20th um prior to that we had the opportunity so previously I guess let me take a step back we had issued a letter on September 24th that included our initial comments um subsequent to that we had the opportunity to meet with the applicant on October 31st to go through some of the outstanding issues and work you know work through where we're at and we ised our letter most recently on November 20th um as you're aware I mean the the project is requesting several waivers you know dimensional all kinds of waivers uh for the density and setbacks Etc um the only one that I guess kind of remains somewhat concerning um is the road layout um the width um it's not that the width is problematic it's just that they're leaving themselves there really no construction tolerance of any kind um so it's just going to have to be built pretty closely or you know the lot lines and stuff they're proposing are going to be accurate well I'm sorry may I ask a question Madam chair yeah go for it what do you mean but could you explain that a little bit more in detail so so so typically you know like your roadway with let's say use round it's it's 20 ft but the right of way would actually be 30 ft so if the road be anded kind of in that you know the 20ft road beander in that 30ft road you know give or take you know no one's going to bug if you're you know living you have a 21 foot right away and a 20ft road you don't have a lot of construction tolerance through there to get everything just just the way you want it like on paper it works but in reality you know is it going to be that like dialed in thank you y um relative to the um Earth removal um the applicant was able to clarify what they were expecting there it's going to be a lot of trips of material out of there um just you know it would say about a two we period just wanted to make the board aware of that that's the 700 figure that mhm what what number are you on uh that was 19 in the most recent letter so been 700 truck trips over a two we span give a take would you say that uh that's in and out the 700 that's not just in is that correct 700 trips like round trips round trips yeah so that's one in one out so that's really 1400 corrects um I mean I mean I I get rough m i mean it's 12 and a half an hour um just to picking does um Town engineering um monitor the condition of the road uh 28 I mean the entrance potential uh damages or whatever and would we condition uh resp responsibility if such damages did occur is that normal or unusual I'm relatively new here yeah I mean I guess I mean I guess the number of I mean I don't have a lot of experience with that number of trips and that seem like a lot it's a lot you know a lot because the the topography there is difficult they're going to have to do a lot of work yeah I would I would it seems reasonable to me to you know recommend some kind of before and after like if the road's all destroyed then there should be some Honus on the applicant to repair it for sure okay just that would seem Reon a huge number of of trips I mean it's really 14400 yeah correct CH may I ask question y go ahead so if this is a 10 just just so it's on the record so you're probably going to use trailers but I mean a 10-wheeler let's say a full 10 wheel is going to be about 20 tons plus the the truck itself that doing that um on truck for day will most likely result in damage to the road so by just so this is on the record so that maybe it has to be conditioned that there are some funds put up for Road repair okay all right it's 100 trips a day it's a lot yeah so why why we figured it was worth noting yeah it was um we had a we had a um comment relative to the environmental impact statement um at the time of the letter um it was not provided it sub it came in after the fact um it seemed that gets into the issues of the nitrogen systems and all those things environmental impact yes um we understand that you know the it appears that the applicant is willing to you know retrofit the systems or again leave room for these systems if if in fact they're needed at some point um the density of the project is rather kind of where we started with the waivers there's small Lots there's not a lot of room to maneuver around um the retrofitting of these systems seems like it might be something difficult to do after the fact you know once the houses are built um you only have limited sidey yards or for Access Etc there's retaining walls between several of the Lots so I mean it's going to be I guess I can't necessarily speak to the means and methods of a contractor of how they would propose they would do that but it would be but it will be tight no doubt question go ahead Tony so these are 12 on next these tanks are generally 12,000 lb it's A500 gon tank am I correct that that sounds that's reasonable wall um that generally means that the vehicle that's being used to bring it in is going to be a truck it's going to have a little crane on it and I mean that's generally the way these are brought in not necessarily on a using an excavator to do it right um these trucks tend to be roughly 10 ft wide we have 7.75 7.73 widths after the walls all right I just want to again get this in the record this is not something a skid ster is going to pick up or a midsize exavator to get through there I I wouldn't think so okay like I said I'm not a contractor as far as like the actual like how they would go about doing that but but like I would i' it's not typical to see a skid skier moving those kinds of not that we no okay at least in my in my experience okay you have any question on that I I was just uh and I I numbers sometimes stick in my head but uh what's um the total lot coverage of impervious surface here I think extremely high isn't it like 70% 70% I believe that was one of the waivers i' have the I think I I know that law coverage was code requires a maximum yes so the so the all so it seems like the regulation is 20 for structures 40 overall what they're proposing is 50 for structures and 75 overall any future work is really threading a needle here isn't it that's seems to be the case could you say it again Mr fer I said any any subsequent work is is really threading a needle um that's just from the from the um I don't want to get off on tangents here but first off um when you go through this stuff can you just measure the mention the numbers of if it does happen to correspond just so I can sure uh keep up but I had a problem with the density of this thing from the beginning yeah what um what size is the one down the street how many acres is that larger it has fewer units 4.67 4.6 that's 16 we have 20 but those are duplexes yeah they're not single family so there there's no cutting through the OD they're they're to that's in my mind this project would have been better with duplexes do you want more obvious list first yeah yeah let's let him finish yeah oh yeah sorry I but I just the way I think I can't help it it's just it meant to be a discussion um I guess the next one was 45 um we noted that you know for intersection kind of site distance there'll probably be some needing to clear of trees that were probably but that are in the towns right away not necessarily in the property um so be some we've discussed that on previous projects so there'll be some coordination there between the town and the applicant on how that's maintained and then I guess the last one I wanted to note was 52 state um or St or or yeah the case the highway um the last one's 52 again at the time of the um letter on the 20th we had questions about the depth of the test pit that was the test pit wasn't deep enough uh to you know gauge How Deep The groundwater was in the specific location or to a depth that we were comfortable with they subsequently did another investigation and that's not been resolved um I guess the other just large I mean besides all the waivers they're asking for uh being a subdivision they are kind of deferring um the creation of those final subdivision plans to a later date as because I which which we understand because depending on which wers are granted not granted will affect the geometries and layouts and how these things are so they didn't want to necessarily charge forward with the subdivision plan not knowing what relief would be granted or not so as far as proving it I mean a lot of it seemed um a lot of the subdivision comments are administrative like plans weren't stamped and things like that things that are easily rectified you know title like signature blocks and things like that um but the subdivision plans haven't been formally submitted at this point um so just something else to note relative to the uh asps and uh y I don't know if they've done any borings or whatever but how much how much ledge is out there there in the area well like guess the the the storm water systems towards the road where and so that's where they did the investigation so there was no ledge there I guess they can't speak to the rest of the property well I just think you know the more ledge the more this thing um works like kind of like an artisian well sure and uh I mean the the the applicant testified that he's taking all the runoff from all the neighboring properties and the Highway and I I just have I think a legitimate concern with the potential for this thing to get overwhelmed but I'm not an engineer although I am educated in it um all right s I'm just Meandering C so I guess those I mean those are kind of summary quickly I mean those were generally where we're at um the the meeting with the applicate was productive we did go through a lot of things and get a lot of things rectified but there are still some you know concerns out there can you explain 52 to me 52 so the the bottom of this the bottom of the storm water system needs to exhibit a twoot vertical separation to the groundwater table um the initial the initial information provided wasn't deep enough to confirm that like the the the test pit information they provided barely got to the bottom of the system so it was still it was unclear where the groundwater table was they've subsequently gone back and gone deeper and still didn't find anything so we're comfortable with that okay should be anybody else have any go ahead Scott from a macro perspective when I look at all of your items it's it's almost I was looking at 2 3 4 6 7 8 15 16 are all dimensional to some degree that due to the fact that the configuration of the project is is difficult in the in in just the topography elevation changes uh the size and shape of it in your opinion is the density just too large for this project and that's what causes all of these configuration issues if there were 16 units could we get the road bigger could we get radius could we get setbacks better in your opinion obviously the less units the more room you're going to have I mean that's goes without saying you don't need to be near to determine that um the density um see if we had coverage it's not not seeing it I believe the density I mean granted being very dense is within what some of the you know um housing regulations allow for but again those are probably steered more towards like an apartment build you know if you have an apartment building that sits on the lot you know you could have 20 units in one building instead of having 20 individual houses so from that perspective like the density is within those ranges but when you're talking about 20 houses versus like or duplexes or something to that effect that would minimize um or maximize the area you had you know you can get more more units in smaller in OT smaller Footprints um yeah it is quite dense thank you anybody else have any of I have a question on the snow removal they're planning on putting the snow in that roundabout yes isn't it just going to flow down the street and create which is but well but which is typic I mean typically if the snow is just plowed to the sides it's going to melt and get in the street as well I mean if I guess if it was warm enough for it to melt warm quite a slope yes and but they have the catch they have there's multiple sets of catch basins and um obviously if you had a some kind of major event yeah might be a concern but I think for the typical so so if it's warm enough for it to melt it wouldn't it wouldn't be in that kind of free cycle it would get to the catch basins and it would get to the storm water basin then a major event that basically in one spot and it would be much easier for them to truck out also true also yeah right so I mean that that becomes less of a concern and but I mean for res for a residential subdivision you typically just plowing it to the sides of the street obviously at the CU the saac it's going to get they'll probably yeah utilize that middle area for some um we did note that there is a one of the common septic systems is in the cuac as well mhm um so you know in there's no necessarily regulation against it but intuitively putting a bunch of snow that's going to melt on top of a system that's designed to infiltrate as well can be somewhat problematic it's close to ledge if that ends up being the case I mean obviously the the the um septic systems well need their own all their own soil testing and things so they'll see if there's you know there'll be more investigations at those times but yeah and the called the sack is obviously in you know the farthest point in where the Topography is climbing so the chances of potentially hitting something are obviously greater Mr Cody I don't mean to put you on the spot but maybe I am a little bit um you come from a very prestigious uh engineering firm that I know relatively well from his past um there are a lot of waivers involved and potential overcrowding in the subdivision if you were to take the in your mind the top five maybe six items that this board should really be focusing on maybe it's 10 could you possibly outline those for us or am I pushing too hard no I just bear with me for a second I mean the wildlife Corridor is something that isn't particularly I mean from an engineering standpoint isn't particularly of a concern they are maintaining the highway right of way uh to the rear where there would be passage for potential Wildlife if necessary um obviously all the ones related to like Dimensions like loot coverage setbacks those are concerning from a from a density standpoint um like the the layout width we talked about um the grade the um the grade of the road um again they've put it at the maximum right so again if there they've left themselves no tolerance to just be a little off in the future you know comes to find out that they built the road and it ends up being um steeper than they had anticipated it wouldn't it wouldn't be compl what but that would be engineered and checked along the way you would assume but again but again there's no to like there's I mean if if we were if we were do you know if if the maximum is 10 you'd shoot for eight and if you end up at nine you're still good if you if you design it to 10 and you're at 10 and like it ends up being 11 well then you like you you know this typically it's hard to it's it's not something that's I guess best practice to max out every last design on somebody competent can can do it properly it's just going to take a little more it it's it'll be more yes right like if the maximum is 10 and you make it eight well then yeah you have some wiggle room if you 10 and you know you got to B 10 you're going to have to be checking it constantly the question I'm sry the question has to be if the max is 10 and you're safer at eight Why Can't This be eight in other words if you take the center line on the profile and bring it down from 10 to 8 I guess I mean for that it becomes more of but then we're even talking about more earth work more removal just removal yeah you're you're flattening that road out so there's more you have to take out and they're already taking out quite a bit all right so that's why it's probably staying they're at they're at 10 yeah so what what happens if uh now you're they're done and they're above the 10 I mean what happens I mean you'd have to do it over okay I mean it's part of like the you know it's part of the as built process it would come to light that they're too steep so their recommendation would be to have them fix it so there's no get a jail free card I would not think so no they're just going to have to visit their benchmarks more often and and ensure that again you've just left you you haven't left yourself any wiggle room that's all yeah again more threading the needle here but yeah I mean it's possible possible it's yeah I mean but just you're not you're not leaving yourself a lot of Tolerance that's all which is a concern I mean typically I typic you leave yourself some it's more ideal to leave yourself some tolerance what part I think we would have to condition it to be checked more often yeah it it have to be as built as as it went but I mean it would be in their interest and you know any kind of confidence it can be done I mean that end it could also go the other way I designed it at 10 they might end up at nine yeah I mean so it's just they're they're trying to like you said thread the needle yeah I didn't get all so I just want to make sure that my question is fully answered are there any other things that you would point out to this board that really you you're not going to let happen you wouldn't want to have it happen um I know you're defer to the board but no I mean like I mean like the dead and roadway length isn't doesn't seem to be excessive um the culdesac radius as long as the fire department's comfortable isn't I know open space protection of natural features I mean those are all kind of more subjective things that um there's no open space well right yeah yeah but but but from an engineering State it's not necessarily like a it's just it's not um alarming it's just it's just they're just not providing any yeah um just don't want to be driving down that on the Black Ice event either um like reductions of sidewalk widths as long it's again it's still ADA Compliant um so those I mean guess it's the dimensional ones which didn't result in again they haven't they haven't that they haven't gone to that full subdivision level which would then determine that they have to be how many they're going to have to they're going to have to yeah yeah yeah the law I mean they'll have to be but yeah how many of your open points I've read your I've read the report and the responses how many of these are either eliminated or significantly reduced if this density is decreased by 20 or 40% I would imagine a lot of them already I would imagine a lot of them it's yeah because it's just then there would be just the you know you're taking I don't even know how many there are I mean you're taking four or eight you're taking 25ish waivers and probably yeah cutting those in half if not more thank you y anybody else have any other questions I don't know whether to save it for discussion or mention it now mention it now I mean there have been numerous points here I mean this is a very difficult spot to build but I mean obviously they're building needed housing um and and I um I don't have any real concerns that that quality construction isn't going to occur here I'm just completely bothered by the density of this thing yeah and in my mind if if we're going to allowed 20 units it should be duplexes if we're going to allow single family I mean it should mimic what's down the road at at at 16 I mean it started out at 24 and we all knew that that was crazy it should have started at 20 to begin with and been whittel um and I you know I'm I'm I said this is a 40b I mean it's it's going to get built but how and 70% 75 70 Oh I thought you said 75 sorry um is the greatest I've ever heard of and I like I've only been here two years and I certainly didn't pay attention to a lot of this stuff beforehand but um I mean those are just my honest thoughts and yeah perceptions and um I feel it would be a lot safer too cuz then if it was duplex they'd be able to get in the back and repair and it would just just it'd be more open space it'd be it'd be a better I mean the wildlife Corridor is mostly on the highway um or certainly ample I'm not really um I know at you know some point that that that doesn't bother me I mean look at an aerial photo of Falmouth in the summertime it's nothing but green and ponds and uh I mean this town is O over 50% open space and climbing but anybody this would absolutely be the most dense yeah development in this town yeah is I think that's a correct statement probably Scott you have anything I'm good for now thank you thank you set any followup up here well with the questions for Mr Co no I have no questions for everybody all set with I have no questions for Mr Cody but I do have things I for the applicate okay thank you sure you know I had wanted I'd want to have uh um Rich tazinski come up here prior to uh you know right next to deal with uh Mr Cody's responses but I I cut some notes and I got to tell you something I do a lot of detail research I do it all the time and I don't miss too much of that stuff in fact in terms of the density of this development this is one of the least dense developments that's been in front of the spard quite some time uh you you've got one right now up on bone Road it's 40 acres 40 units on three acres the one over there on Kendall Lane uh although it's 4.75 Acres they've got about an acre of uh of wetland so it's really in 3.57 acres 3.75 Acres they've got 28 units our lot sizes for the most part are bigger than theirs they just finished that development just recently the ones you go on Main Street yeah sure they're apartment buildings uh uh but let me before I speak on that one let's talk about the one right over here uh next I think it the folks that was here before us that's 18 units per acre that's what it is the town the town uh Walker Street walker street oh it's apartment house and not single family it's not it has se apples and oranges well yeah but it may have we're talking about density and a lot of other issues that go along with that um so I've looked at almost every single 40b that's happened in the last um uh 10 years I got a list had norin provide me with a list and I studied I studied each and every single one of them which ones had sidewalks many of them didn't which ones had lights many of them didn't which ones have play areas almost non-existent uh I can provide all that for you again this development here when I match it up against the other ones we have put in more than the other folks have put in now when it comes to the the um when it comes to the uh uh the road you know we've done what was asked of us and and and I've spent a lot of money with engineering to make sure that the pitch of that road match the engineering that was required TOS to handle the water so the storm water has all been managed Mr Cody didn't mention anything about the storm water he didn't need to it's all been managed in fact uh I want to speak for a second on uh the uh and then Eddie mono who I mentioned uh is here to say a few things on it we went through and you know first of all I was brought up an excavation business I saw a letter that came in that said you should we did 30 I was brought up on excavation my father with the excavation in this town for 45 years Eddie monter does it right now he's he's an active excavator the mini excavator goes back there there's enough room for everything that take place uh I've submitted the paperwork on this we submitted copious paperwork to address anything that you came up with uh there is no problem whatsoever to get to those I think it's six septic systems behind those units there's no problem whatsoever I measured our units and looked at the math Bas on bases on um uh the uh wild Harbor development down the street yeah they got duplexes so they got more room to get behind there they've got no play areas they've got no sidewalks they've got lights in front of the houses but they got no General houses so so we've got those things we've put those things in you know so we've worked hard and to answer all of your concerns every single one of them we addressed we did work very closely with Mr Cody here so uh so the the issue of density to me when I look at the other buildings in this town regardless of whether or not they are rentals somebody once said well yeah supposed there a fire well supposed there a fire one of those buildings they building in town I mean lots of things are going to perish including people so our density is absolutely less than just about everything that's happened in this town so when I hear a statement that we're higher I'm shocked the people that were just up here at 18 units an acre so oh um uh that's not a nap excuse me Madam chair that's not a nap comparison I'm sorry that's not a appropriate comparison that's not a proper comparison you need to compare single family homes duplexes talk about that to the bo so we understand don't talk about apartment complexes what's the difference it's different it's a different situation they highrise they're midrise okay so so let's talk Madam chair I'm sorry for it um so when you you create a very confusing situation when you talk about midrise apartments single families make appropriate comparisons let's talk about your density compared to what's down the street with Kendall Lane no Kendall Lane's flat Kendall Lane is flat okay now are we talking about density or we talking about grade because those are two different isses they are yeah no I'm sorry M sorry because of the density when you have that type of grade it does affect that grade affects the density so you want to get into all of this in the in the in the gray changes and the walls between them you don't you hav't even talked about the type of walls going in because some of these walls that go over 2 feet start leaning back one way or the other so they're going to impose into if it's a block wall stone wall whatever it is some of them as they go up lean this way we haven't even talked about that yet I I don't I don't mean to really into that is this in my opinion I I appreciate your comment and I'm glad you said that because in my opinion that comment is left up that that that construction and the details of that construction and the quality of that that those retaining walls are left up to the Building Commissioner and and and I'm not going to argue that and the engineer Mr sorry I'm not arguing or debating that point yes the Building Commissioner is in charge of that we have to look at what you put in front of us and make those decisions based on what we see in the plans and it'll be coming up we'll be talking about the septic systems in the back the distance between how you get there Mr Duffy brought this up in the very beginning probably the first meeting and I I'm really getting out of stepping because I got a whole list of things to talk about but if you're going to make comparisons compare subdivisions houses not apartments and with regard to Sidelines can we get into it and can we get back there and not get back there I'll bring up some things on that that you can then the board otherwise all the respect I believe that we have to compare it to are the regulations and the guidelines and do we meet that test I'm not trying to be like everybody else we're providing affordable housing do we need the test from an engineering perspective and from a building perspective and from a a waste perspective have we satisfied those um uh I guess uh uh areas that that talk about safety and we have so so I may I just because it's I again I apologize for interrupting but you're asking us for certain waivers that we do not have to provide everybody thinks well it's a 40b so we have to give it up does it happen yes it does because you don't want to have to appeal it we don't have to want to deal with the appeal so we try and work things out with you in these meetings as best possible because we're going to condition if we approve this that way so when you talk about that all we have to look at are the plans you have and if this board which you've asked us to wave the subdivision control LA on believes that it's too dense then that's what we believe but you have an opportunity to now convince us otherwise and you're not doing that right now you're not doing that well what do you want to hear from me I want you to convince us that this is not too dense that you can get your machines back there to put in your a 12,000lb tank if it had to be replaced uh those sorts of things I can go through a list of questions but it's not appropriate for me to do so at this point in time all I'm asking you to do is you on comparisons I went a little too far to the right on this thing make comparison subdivision okay I I what I want I'm the attorney and I'm wondering if perhaps to speak to that one is excuse me we don't we I don't know your name or I'm sorry I I apologize my name is Vicky Mitchell and I'm representing uh Mr Pina uh and come up to the podium so that the cable can here please I would just like to say that um I represent I'm from p d's office Mr dagel has been before you guys on the other five occasions Mr dagel is not available so I apologize for not introducing myself initially I just wanted to step in that I see that this concern about um the septic issues and I believe that Mr Pina has someone who can speak to exactly what they would be able to do and the density so could we have Mr Montero come up and speak to that issue since that's concerning at this point just um one pointk I mean he just presented to us that um I believe that you said that uh the brick Hill Road Project was more dense than yours uh ber Hill Road Project is 58% yours is 70 um it's certainly amongst the highest that we've ever encountered how many acres is bone it's the density I mean it's it's 58% density density amount of lot coverage that you're allowed you're taking 70% they're using 58 so your statement was incorrect I beg to different let me I listen I I don't want to get into a back and forth this but lot coverage speaks to storm water density speaks to how many units on the lot they've got they aage by structures and impervious surface is yours is 70% theirs is 58 you said it was greater that's incorrect it's a simple math well equation it is simple math when you're talking about blck coverage that really goes right to storm water and we've got a storm water system that handles that density has got to do with how many units per acre that's standard right across the country there is no other I don't know any other way to calculate density so let's get I want Mr one I I would like Mr Montero to speak before I have um explain how the trucks are going to before I have uh the engineer to speak I I now chair is this the time or should the applicant continue on let him finish what he has to say and then allow us to ask questions as we go along because this is getting too far a field in too many different places if Mr Pina would like to I'm I'm speaking through you m chair please stop me if you be I would like to hear what Mr Pina has to say I think the rest of the board would too but do it in a way if you're making comparisons that are equal and then let us ask you questions as the chair would set it up to do and then your experts can answer those questions or you can well I like I'd like to you know you you you've raised a question about access to um the leing Fields that's what we're talking about here whether not there's room for that that's why Mr Montero is here i' like him to address that and then ultimately I like to have my engineering firm stand up and address some of these concerns I can I let's have Mr Montero come up up to you Y come on up please litigation with edin Montero Falmouth um are you concerned about the construction when the septic systems going in is is that what the concern is of the board Our concern is the is the density and the am the greatest concern at least mine is is the amount of units that are put on this and a perfect example is the one down the street it's a larger lot and it has less units and also their duplexes which use less I mean this is covers 70% of with with uh uh structures parking imp perate surfaces I mean that's amongst the highest that has what's ever been in front of me it's all then I don't know everything I've only been here a couple of years I mean I I think fine I me the engineers can address that but I think there was concerns about it was concern because all of a sudden we learned last meeting that there's going to be retaining walls we didn't know that ahead of time okay so now there's these retaining walls which we don't I don't know the width the height any of that kind of stuff we don't we don't I mean maybe it's on this one that we just received again I'll have the the engineers address that okay I think that one of our concerns relating back to the very first meeting was up at the top of the hill at the end of this kisac around that traffic circle or turnaround there are now four lots and the concern was they're going to have septic systems that to us looking at the plan are going to be an inaccessible places and if there's a problem they have to have it pumped they may have to go onto somebody else's property to get access they may not have access at all because of because of uh topography issues I think that that's what I raised and I think it's what Mr what everybody else is concerned about too and it's an element of density um but what can you tell us about as you're in the excavator what can you tell us about access to those Lots at the top Lots 10 11 12 and 13 according to the last plan can you guys put that on can they be accessed and can you make the necessary repairs or improvements Rob I also have Drive okay which units are you on 10 11 12 and 13 up there at the top by the traffic circle they have access they have Frontage on the circle it it's 15 ft MH um one of them I think is maybe 19 ft or something like that but it's they're pretty small okay well a couple of things the uh the leeching fields that they have designed are peripher pipe which is schedule 40 so it's not they're not using the regular say 500 gallon Chambers so if you ever see the uh peripher pipe or uh schedule 40 pipe it's the white pipe that you usually see inside of a house but this is um pressurized so the leion fields you can basically wherever the uh size of the uh the pit is you're probably going to have anywhere from say 25 to 30 25 to 30 uh PVC pipes uh in your in your leech field now as far as the tank is concerned depending upon uh you're talking about if you can get the truck back usually there's an articulating uh truck that brings the the tank in and I know Mr paluchi was saying that it's 12,000 lb well there's an alternative to that is if you the tank is uh too larger you can't get behind there you have an alternative using a uh H20 uh infiltrated plastic tank which is only about 500 lb and you can pick it up with a with a Skit Steer with the uh with pallet fux and I'll give you those so you can take a look at that thank you thanks thank you [Music] is this un comp thank you I have no idea so if if there was a problem say down down the road where the uh if the system has failed basically you have to have a license inspector go in there and say what's failed if the system has uh the Lee field has uh has hydraulic failure what would happen then is you replace in the leeching field you're not replacing the tank but that would be determined by the engineer or the uh Board of Health agent would say whether or not the tank could stay or that would have to be replaced but what you have in front of you would be an alternative even uh during construction to instead of having the concrete h10 1500g tank you could have a 1500 gon tank infiltrator H20 uh plastic tank that could be put in these compatible with Title 5 regulations we did one of those those are accepted by the the health agent in F Scott Manan accepted that on a job we did are they also able to upgrade to a nitrogen well the nitrogen when when you do it is the uh space that you have in front of it which you uh and that pipe can attach to this to upgrade yes it it's the same thing as a uh concrete uh tank except it's just made out of uh H20 it's H20 which mean it has loading it's made out of ask a question go ahead Tony so you indicated that you're using the clean 2 uh Nitro 2ks uh tank uh which again is is a concrete tank and according to the company uh at 12,000 PBS I mean somebody's going to I I I didn't say that you you were mentioning about a regular 1500 gallon T it just I'm asking the question only because it just came up the question was when IIA systems are required um can somebody get back there and so the clean the the cut sheet that we have in the latest folder is a clean to Nitro 2ks am I correct on that I I'm not sure on that oh that's what the cut sheet is let me oh let's just agree that that's what the cut sheet is right now and according to clean to that's a a concrete tank it's roughly 12,000 lbs it's going to happen M and when I talk to um uh shade concrete today the only way they're going to get in something like that is there is because it's a straight lift as you know better than I know correct uh it's a it's a straight up lift and it's going to be their truck their truck is needs 10 ft to get back there so then these tanks I think I think this I nothing about this is a great idea it's going to be what happens and I think it's signed out this way what happens when the Ia system if it is required and I think that's the way the town's going how are you going to get that back there maybe the technology will change but according to uh a sh you need a 10-ft truck and you only have seven rough that that is correct I mean we've done it before we we've had no room basically we did one in Maran where uh maran's on sewer but they needed to do a a tight tank and if I explain to you how we did it it'll be another debate but uh you do would happen you you have a you'd have a crane as long as it passes yeah all matters mhm so you're telling this board because this is really important absolutely it's it's a it's an issue you're telling this board that s and 34 feet would be sufficient in the future to get the current technology in this case the cut sheet is a clean to Nitro 2ks back there that's if you installing the uh uh the a the IIA system uh yes well I could explain the way you could do it I mean b basically if you were installing the uh the units the existing uh lots that you have on there when you're clearing the Lots if you have five units you'd have an open field where before you even uh start construction where your foundations are and then you could actually come in and place the IIA units along with the Subic system we do it all the time if we have a foundation in we need to connect the Subic system you have the open area where you can actually drive up to you're actually talking as if the all of the units are up and you have no way to uh uh to get back to the house and I agree and I think that's a perfect argument to put the I systems in now but that's another subject no I'm just saying if it was approved that's that's the way you would do it yes and I understand that which is why this board is concerned about Mr Duffy brought up in one of the early meetings access is key at some point in time it's likely we're going to go to an IIA system in town here we don't know that for sure but these folks have to be able to get that in um and right now we have very dense situation very tight situation we have a peer engineer who comes from an injuring firm that is I know Mr qualified and agrees with us so this board has to listen to our to the peer engineer I ask um so what you you know more about obviously so you're saying that if it does go to an IIA that they're going to have to remove this tank and then put in the concrete one I I'm not an expert he's going to have to tell you that no it this uh clean to Nitro 2ks will go into that little spot they set aside theoretically when they spoke with the Board of Health Scan somebody said it's the clean to 2ks it's got to go in there make sure you had enough room for it somebody had make make a decision as to how big that spot is and will it fit in there because otherwise they're even in bigger trouble if it doesn't fit there it's a reserve area that the engineers put on the plan when you file for your uh Title 5 septic system when he gets the building permit well this is a little different this I don't disagree this is a reserve area but it is for a IA system MH uh and I'm and and this cut sheet on the Nitro 2ks has to fit into that that is a concrete tank unless the technology changes I think this is a great idea if you can do this have to do this um but it doesn't solve the problem if these folks have to go to an IA system so why not correct that now by increasing some of the setbacks to allow at least for a 10 12 foot wide vehicle to get in there that's all we're talking about Yes again I can't speak to that I'm I'm just speaking on the procedure of what could be done on the uh on the systems so you'd have to talk to the engine let's make sure we understand let's make sure we understand you if you had to in a tight spot you could put in these IM 1530 infiltrated tanks which are fiberglass and you've told this board that Scott mccan our Board of Health agent has approved these in the past is that correct yes all right so that solves some of the problem four D no not that's D standard no that's that's your standard sub to that's a standard uh septic tank but is it compatible with that's what I asked and he said yes you can add on so the next question is is it compatible with an IA system in this case well you gave us the clean to system on the cut sheet uh is that all compatible I have no clue this board doesn't well if you've ever seen it I mean there's there's a project right down on C spray on the water they use in the system that you're talking about basically the component for the septic tank is in the front and then the system that you're talking about has the piping going from the sub tank right into the uh into the uh AI system so it's so you're saying that that is something that I it's compatible has a so that's the answer to the question it's compatible so it still goes back to how do you get it in there should it become necessary if the Board of Health they've left this wide open we know what we're going through in this community we know what the state of Massachusetts has mandated and eventually it's going for it's likely to happen so why not make it make a subdivision work these Lots work now that's this what this what this conc that's fine I'm I'm I I can uh address that that's the applicant and the engineers I'm just trying to go ahead I think the question is in five years hypothetically if we have to put a 15 ton or 15K system in a backyard how can you do it if there's only 7 feet between houses you wouldn't the way you would do it is you'd have a crane and and You' lift it up over the house into the back that's the way it's done it's no different for no you can laugh I mean it's no different if you have a tight area when you're trying to put a foundation and how do you get the concrete back there you have to pump it so we've done it before I mean you can you know chuckle it whatever you want but we've done it before and that's that's the way it would be done so then what you're saying is you solving the I'm not I'm not solving anything you just asked and I told you that's that's the way I would do it I the Board needs some solve it well that's that's the way you would do it you'd have a you'd have a crane and you and you'd have it over into the area where theem goes portable units going to have to pay for the crane yep well I've got a series of questions on all of that too I believe you do I don't know if they any good have anything I'm getting educated I'll just you have any questions come yeah Mr Montero have you ever installed a shared system in fouth mhm okay whereabouts do you recall one we did the 40b over on brick Hill Road place okay did the site work did the drainage did the sewage it was in I was looking through the the most recent information from Mr penina and Scott McAn had said that this is not uh a fully formed septic design so I can't comment on whether Health can permit this design as shown further engineering and soil eval evaluations will be needed I I know it's not for you that that's for the applicant the engineer I was just wondering about the shared systems yeah well we we did the uh the pro test where the uh shared system is down below where you're looking at uh where it says 1 a there was two pro tests that were done there oh one more okay thank you Mark you all that down there oh I'm waiting for Tony Tony you ready sorry buckle up and ask you questions oh want me to ask questions well I don't know if if Ed is if if we're all done with septic tank Madam chair I have asked for the moment the questions I need to ask about the septic tank I got some answers that I think this board hopefully they're on the record that we can use as necessary but I have other questions when the time comes okay thank you Ed the engine sorry again Robert Pina um before the engineer comes up I want to say that I myself I I was here one night when Scott McAn got up and he gave a uh detailed discussion about where I systems would go which watersheds uh I saw online where uh he made that presentation to this board I saw where the presentation was made to this board from the uh water quality committee and on there they delineated all the water sheds are Del delineated recently in September they came up with another study and not one of those studies they're recommending I systems for this Watershed in fact what they've done with the last thing they did and there it is right there uh I guess there something like uh what 18,400 houses they they're only looking to put I systems in like 6,000 of them this Watershed uh the there's there's no nitrogen sensitive uh um uh issue in this Watershed so I feel like like i' I've brought this information in to this board uh numerous times the board's had presentations to it several times that I know of uh as a general question statement not every house in this town is going to have an IA system regardless of whether or not they're on Town septic storage or not I've I've actually had uh Ed Ika who actually wrote the uh the paperwork for the town of FMA wastewater treatment plant and he also wrote that same information his Organization for the Department of Environmental Protection nowhere is anybody saying that this Watershed is going to have um uh is nitrogen sensitive so I feel as though we we we've put a lot of time all du respect to the board this issue comes up time and time again one way or the other I submitted another letter today these letters all cost money and and there is no evidence anywhere I even went down to you know uh some of those letters that come in uh they speak to the same issue from uh uh this organization that uh that uh you know makes money by putting these these uh I systems so like it's it's this issue has been exhausted it's absolutely been exhausted if Scott McAn stands up in front of the board and the Board of Health has got the final say in this thing subject to town meeting or where whichever way it goes here's another one it came from this is from the town of Falmouth you know the town of f like from what I can see from all the research and stud theyve done they're trying to mitigate the problem and not exasperate the amount of money by doing a a fine job of of of of of navigating how to keep the cost down and when I come in front of this board I'm hearing about the cost may go up it may go up in this Watershed there is no evidence from the organizations that uh that matter who who studied this Watershed for the for Amy L and the town uh Wastewater uh problem it was studied by this uh cape card uh preservation they want of the top groups then there's then there's uh this group um uh cape card commission then we've got the planning board then we've got the town of Falmouth at town meeting voted this in that's what confuses me I mean town meeting Frank you must know this town meeting voted it in and said let's do the study they spent $360,000 and this is what we come up with that's one of the reasons we bought this particular property and so here we're basically um and what's the word it's it's kind of like uh um uh this uh this this issue that affects everything in development that's a nonissue I've left all the paperwork we left it here nine days ago I mean has anybody read the paperwork we we've giv you everything we can give you we can't give you anymore so it makes me wonder why this keeps coming up if I may Madam chairman I think the concern Mr P is that we don't know what we don't know about what's going to happen with this issue our concern is to protect affordable units because this map the same way that Federal thefa flood maps change from year to year and 5 years from now this map may be outdated this project May suddenly be in one of those impacted watersheds my real concern as it applies to I think what's before us right now though is how the how tight the lot lines are and could an excavator get in in the event of a conventional Title 5 failure in the backyard or is it going to be problematic and I and put I I put the information in there today um last week it shows the the size machine that can get back there they've got mini excavators that weigh 3500 lb that can put in a of course we were talking about uh the leech fields at that point now we've gone from the leech fields to suppose the basically what you're asking right now first we'll talk about the leeching field and we build two of them at the same time there's a SP space for one of them when when Mr Montero was talking about the perforated p PES he's basically saying they don't weigh that much it's a pipe it's a per it's a PVC pipe with holes in it okay those you I mean two 10 year olds can carry those out of there and so the we actually if you look at this plan we went into the uh and the engineer will speak to this we actually where we had taken those four houses out when we dropped from 24 units to 20 we have utilized that space to slide all the units over so we basically have about 9t setback between these units the town requirement is only 10 ft so we gave you the the information that we gave you that uh Atlantic design uh has given you we gave you the smallest situation I think it's 79 in that's the smallest one setback the town setback is only 9 ft so I have to I have to uh be concerned about the every every every setback in septic system in the town we're at 9 ft they if you go down I I actually I put in the the cut sheets I took the time to go down to a couple of these places at like Bobcat you can go there yourself and talk to the folks I gave you the information may I ask a question sure uh Madam chair may ask you go forward uh you gave us a cut sheet on I think it's uh Bobcat excavators um you put an arrow on the uh E20 and I think I just heard you say that you would be using something like that well the arrow on E20 uh the lift capacity is 1,098 lbs yeah it's not going to lift that tank listen you put the tanks in before you build the houses if you got to construction about the future listen listen I have been my father did excavation and put the septics in this town for 45 years that's what we did for a living for 45 years Eddie Montero has been do for 25 years so man did I put them all in no I wasn't always around but I put a bunch of them in you know I put the ones in at F with Village West no I just can I just respond this cut sheet says 1,098 lbs and you've got a 10 12,000lb tank I I I don't see how that correspond what 10 and when I was when I was here at the last meeting meeting uh Mr Puchi all due respect we were talking about leeching fields at that point and so that's what you asked me about you didn't ask me about this other but I'm talking about look look look you get it gets a little confusing I'm not confused all right manner of speech I'm not confused either the machine you pointed out in the cut sheet cannot lift 10 12,000 lbs bottom line it takes a 10ft wide truck to get be down behi beside that house says who you don't have it says who you're going to have it says who Shay concrete who installs the St them they just deliver them I'm sorry I put a lot of SE I'm not going to get I've done this I'm sorry I'm Madam chair I'm arguing I apologize I've done this it's not like I just was born yesterday I've done it the truck comes it lifts it and puts it in that's how it's done maybe you don't do it that way but that's the way Shay concrete does it I'm sorry but that's the way they do it you pointed out the E you're the one that put this cut sheet in the book and I I'm not arguing with you I'm just trying to point these things out for the board you pointed out the E20 would be the machine used it's lift capacity is 1, 98b that's a far cry so you can't get that and when I said to you initially at the very beginning of this the last time I stood in front of this board you asked me about how we're going to take care a uh a um a fail leeching field and a fail leeching field is Stone I answered that question now you're coming up with well suppose you suppose the tank fails no you know not what he's coming up with it's you can modify it to a denitrate system and um you mind if I jump in here go ahead the very beginning when you came here you read us a letter from ikner and then you went the next day and you up to the office and you threatened to sue us or whatever you want to know where I got a hold of the letter all I did was Reg itate what you said to us and that man in that letter stated that at this point in time it is not a nitrogen sensitive area nobody has stated absolutely that it will not right there at this point in time nobody has stated absolutely that this is not going to be the condition and we're not concerned about anything except the Affordable units and how those people are going to have toay pay for this Eddie told us you have to use a crane I don't anything I know he he's experienced he knows what he's doing and let me finish him fin please and uh you also in your email this afternoon said that you have to spoon feed this board information this isn't even the sum total of what you'd given us do you consider that spoon feeding this board spends lots of time I mean we take our job seriously and we get paid nothing and you're Mr ikner here can I ask you where he got his Doctorate his organization is the one that created the documents for the I didn't ask you that question I asked you where he got his Doctorate um I mean what else you want me to answer well you he pooo he pooo the other report that we go by and and you can read the footnotes and they're all doctoral like I Val one you're attacking me right now no I'm I'm you're attacking me for no reason no I'm not I'm attacking I am go I didn't go to any board and and if we if we go back to what you had said from the very first meeting let's put it right out there from the very first meeting your letter I I I could ascertain that there were conversations with the buzzers Bay Coalition because I had a private negotiation with them and Mr Puchi said Hey listen didn't some organization want to purchase this property so think of me I'm I'm an applicant coming in uh we're spending thousands of dollars hundreds of thousand dollars and somebody says you at the very first meeting Hey listen didn't somebody uh try to buy this property from you and what's going on with that now as far as I know from open meeting laws that's supposed to go through the zoning board of appeals I get access to that information so I'm prepared for those kinds of questions that didn't happen I come to another meeting I had a private meeting with uh uh uh Rath genen what whatever her first from science wees cuz I do my homework and so do we and and you read the letter and it didn't go through the zoning board no I didn't read the letter you did not read the letter I did not read the letter sir what I knew and I added what you said and let's get back to your first letter that you read I got to say let me finish what I got to say hey hey hey hey hey let's it's not fair to me to get cut off let's be civil please it's not it's not fair to me to get cut off all we have to do is go back to the video because I've done it and you'll see that he said doesn't that letter have another paragraph to it it's on the tape so okay and so so that's and so but my point is I don't want to argue that point the point that I want to say is that when you come in front of a board and board members seem to be doing or not seem to having conversations and they're allowed to do research but the research is going to be out there for the public domain and I haven't been treated fairly like that Madam chair I want a point of clarification here the board the board members are doing what having conversations how are they having conversations are you saying out the very first meeting you asked me so within the meeting you asked me within the meeting okay you you asked me if an organization tried to buy the property or make made an offer for the property okay and I I came to the meeting and I heard that and in fact that had happened in a private conversation between myself and buzzers Bay Coalition that information the way I understand the open meeting laws is that that's supposed to go through just like my information is supposed to go through the zoning board of appeals so is in that I will Madam chair may I just interject it because I don't like where he's going with this no one bit and I'm going to look for that video uh I don't remember saying that in anything that I might have said did come through the zoning office because who who am I going to talk to about that they weren't party to the conversation oh I'll tell you what w we'll take a look at that accusation and that's not that type of accusation isn't going to stand I I can tell you that I did call line about it and asked noren about it right after the next day nobody told me about it the very next day called nor a point of privilege Madam chairman excuse me I raise a point of privilege Madam chairman we're getting off of Base a little bit if there's an open meeting violation the applicant is represented by an attorney he can file a complaint that's the appropriate thing not to start slinging mud back and forth I would suggest that the applicant back on point make his presentation because we're well over we normally give for an applicate to make a presentation thank you I made simple statement I asked the applicant a question and he's been deflecting from the beginning the letter you read from ikner who is not does not have a doctorate and the uh reports said we've gotten from the Buzzard Bay Coalition are filled with people with doctorates um I I put a little more stock in that your expert said that at this point in time that is not a nitrogen sensitive area he did not say that it will not be a nitrogen sensitive area in the future and I don't think that he can say that he's not my expert he's a Town's expert he's you pay him for this he's he's a town did you pay him for this what I want to do is he's your expert okay like I would like to accomplish something so I'd like to have I'd like to have uh well and um I just want to continue on my point that I tried to start okay go ahead chair go ahead ask it Scott Manan did not absolutely say that this would not be a nitrogen sensitive area either do you have his letter said that it is not at this point in time within that um the uh people that I have spoken through have put the likelihood that this is going to be ruled a nitrogen sensitive area anywhere from 30 to 50% 30 to 50% is enough for us to be concerned I'm speaking sir 30 to 50% is enough for us to have a genuine concern about the future and the people that own these affordable units and who's going to have to pay for a crane for an obviously heavy unit that has to go in there that's it period and this all could be solved let me say this to it's it's tough to answer the innuendo and all the questions and accus you can look at it's very difficult for me to answer things that happen in the future the way science Works science always changes I mean at one point there was the there was probably big Glacier sitting here where we're standing right now may ask a question it's not my it's not my job to to have to be a soothsayer and look into the future and resolve all the issues up front and that's what I feel the Sport's asking me to do okay go ahead Mr P would you be willing to put in an IA system on the four afford four affordable units that's the compromise I'd be looking for I think that would probably put this issue to bed I don't think that's a compromise that this board is looking for I think that you might be looking I believe that I believe that the compromise that the issue there's a whole host of issues that are being fired at us tonight there's a whole host of issues and every and every single one of those issues we have met the regulation or the guideline Mr Duffy talked about the pitch of the road we meet the guideline well suppose this happens I don't know I mean these things are uh uh um uh you know you know when you when you look at science and you study these things every single thing that we're talking about here tonight these aren't theoretical iCal these are all conections and I can't answer conections I can't answer things for you that are going to happen in the future down the road sometime I've looked at other approvals I looked at the approval one of them you just approved he's actually in a n incentive area he didn't manate he put anything the reason I ask if he'd be willing to do that sir to your point to your own exhibit which is the town's Geo boundaries the bottom right there suggested IIA districts we don't know if that's going to be the final geom map that's why I'm asking the question the board is concerned about the cost of having to of an affordable unit having to put one of these in if this map suddenly changes after construction let me say this the compromise I was just proposing you put those in I'm not concerned about the affordable units excuse me the market rate units as I am I can appreciate what you're saying and I I really do I would say this to regarding affordable units people are purchasing units that are worth 7 or $800,000 for 220 bucks $220,000 it's not the government's job to make sure that in 40 years from now or 20 years from now that uh we Babys set them in a way that they can holy cow I mean no it's not a holy cow holy cow five years people people people take these houses within 20 years you're going to need to put a new roof on there going to Pro in the in the I've done some I've been an appraiser for a time in my life okay studied it in appraising they say that a house has got an economic life a single family wood frame house has an economic life of 70 5 years in other words if you do nothing to it with no maintenance in 75 years it'll be flat right on the ground that you know no heat no electricity uh no air conditioning 75 years it's on every appra appraisal they look at the apprais and say what's the status of that right now so should if a person in all due respect to people who are who who are these people are folks who have it's hard information to hear but it's the truth the the truth of the matter is they have to make maintain these properties that's a fact if they need a roof now there's programs out there and there's a lot of programs out there for the uh for the Ia system there really are but how can I it happened the meeting prior to this how is this board supposed to mandate people that the that that the uh Housing Trust is going to put in the house today what happens if a storm comes along and all the windows break what happens if the roof gets blown off are we getting off track here you know how do we answer that question I'd like to I'd like to have my go ahead give me just one and Norine as a department head and in your department head meetings is what Scott McAn potentially is requesting that all new housing not new developments but all new housing potentially would have an IA system that's what the discussion is today is that correct so we did have a department head meeting today uh Scott McAn did report that there are rapid changes occurring within the Board of Health and that larger developments subdivisions for example will be the first ones that will be likely to have to install IAS and it may even be the case that if you allowed all uh regular title fives today that as of the time a building permit was pulled they may have to install IAS so the information that he gave us when he last appeared before the board things are changing very rapidly well can we can we look at Scott mcan's letter that he referred because in that letter it says this this this this Watershed is not a nitrogen sensitive wed right at this time as of Sor read all right Harring Brook might be declared might be declared a nitrogen sensitive area in the future but even and this goes to but even if that occurs this property may not not shall not but may not be incorporated into the area since it does sit south of Harry Brook nothing about his statement is definitive it's maybe we've got the letter that's that's do you do have the application I gave you that's not the no this's an no this is an email a recent email it's what I have right now Scott M Scott scottan submitted a letter that said this is not this property is not in a nitrogen sensitive area and it would only be requiring uh title P systems that's his words at this point at this point well let me ask I know you want to hear this kind of question but why did AC Gardens not get required to put cuz there sew is coming in five years five years well I guess I think I should be I think I think no coming in North pal for 50 years right now we're not the nitrogen right now but we we're our concerns what does the number say that that document came off the town website we're not getting that's the town and maybe the best solution is to just say let's have his engineer come up what's the engineer going to say I don't know come on what's Rich I just watched the water quality meeting last night and it just changed yester but we can handle this with condition can I um I want to point something else out from this letter if you read this this letter from u u Mr uh ikner it says that uh it's not a sensitive basically it says it's not a sensitive area because they allow beds 14 and 15 that's it they wanted to put more beds there and they will not allow it that's why we're exploring an ocean outfall pipe so it's not as it's presented and as again this man does not possess a doctorate and the uh documents that uh they poo poo from the Buzzard's Bay Coalition if you read all the footnotes it's nothing but got people with doctorates I'm sorry I have to give a little more weight to their information and further I stated before that I've checked out this I mean my concern is only for the affordable units just as Mr Morris is y and people that in the know are putting the likelihood at 30 to 50% that is going to be declared a nitrogen sensitive area and where are the affordable people going to be when that happens especially when we're going to need a crane I mean these people will be lucky if they can afford the roof on the house let alone a crane in their backyard I mean this is something that's got to be dealt with and if we reduce the density this problem could be eliminated or the four affordable housings get the D night now right so or we just condition it we can condition it just put and put it in he's not going to move on this thing okay it's a good idea it's just not consider voting we can't continue it we can ask and if he says no we just ask for a draft decision with conditions that we can stick it stick it stick it put it I'm with you okay he represen wants to put yeah not acting arbitrarily or graciously you know I want to say that the you know the the the uh the folks in town that deal with foral like to see them dispersed around the uh development uh so that they're not bunched together now I don't know that this would happen but under Rich's scenario there's no problem moving portable unit uh to a lot that uh doesn't have a uh septic system behind it is that what you're proposing Rich yeah so so in other words and maybe it can maybe it'll be close to what the what you're talking about but but there's a there's a chance that the uh that this problem could go away if we reposition the affordable units we make a we can make a condition that all affordable units will be connected to a shared septic system is that that would cluster them you can't cluster them you can't cluster that would cluster and you can't cluster you have to be separated they have to be sh they got a shared they got a shared Le field could I just interject uh this is um I'm rich tazinski with Atlantic design engineers and uh just to answer that or interject a little bit on the issue that Robert just brought up and uh we suggested that we relocate the affordable units so that they won't have a tank and leeching system in the back of their houses so um I think the condition to that effect would be more give us more flexibility on where the affordables are located um instead of them all being tied to the shared systems some of them might have their own systems but they would have a the tank in the front yard or an affordable um the Lots would all have the systems in the either in the front yard or being the shared system so that this issue of the expense of a crane uh being able to get a heavy tank in the backyard would be not impinging on the affordable units you have but you'd still have to invest in a denitrification potentially IR regardless if it's in the front or the back yes but let let's um just as an example if we here this one's designated as right now as an affordable unit with the uh future advaned the technology system in the back we just basically take this a put it over here instead so this is a market rate unit this is an affordable unit this is the advanced technology system for that property it's right here in the front yard they can easily install it with conventional means have to keep in mind that clustering is not allowed so you'd have to spread these yes yeah we'll I mean obviously we have five affordable Lots out here lot five is one lot nine is another one um lot 16 Lot 19 so we would basically you know we can almost do it right now by moving this over to here that's basically in the same location uh we can take this one and move it right next door on to 17 problem solved but now with that existing layout all the units around the circle none of them would be affordable then right me up on the hill well they were the problematic ones anyways but would that be considered clustering yep well no not really you have some ltitude they get the ocean just the ocean from the top of the hill huh that's the ledge is going to be gone I think if the board made a finding that position was adjusted at the request of the board to address the issue of the dite system resulting in what could be construed clustering I don't think the hack would be coming after us for a violation I think that it's a reason I think there is a compromise yeah I think the clustering was to prevent putting the the affordable units in some shoving the far corner of the lot Corner making them look if they're mixed in even if there's only one house between them I don't think that's a particular problem um I well are there any other questions for the engineer while we have them up here i' have a question go ahead Tony I just want to get this on the record and agree disagree I'm looking to you to do that the Standard Tile 5 septic system is depending on what's sitting underground and where it is is roughly between 15 and $25,000 am I correct yes yep uh the clean 2 Nitro 2ks is roughly $33,000 so roughly $8,000 more than a standard and for 20 units I'm and I only did the math for 20 units that's an extra $120,000 uh over the 20 units but the cost to retrofit with a Nitro 2ks after all is done with just the standard system in would then cost $15 to $25,000 this is what I got from to so wouldn't it make more sense on the um affordables because it costs less now to put in the Nitro system just for those five units at this point in time because it costs a lot more to those folks living in those houses and I know that Mr Pina doesn't not too worried about those folks um but wouldn't it make more sense to at least for those five affordable units put the Nitro system in now where it costs less money to do now than to retrofit in the future and I got this information from Clon I mean I don't know the numbers that that you you just I don't I don't know all the specifics of the numbers of the cost installing now or or later but all I know is that we preser we've reserved an area for those to be installed and um those would be if we relocate some of these affordable units over those would be basically all right in the front yard pretty easy inst hypothetical it's a hypothetical we've agreed that the standard Title 5 is between 15 and $25,000 uh to do all of that at one time with the Nitro 2ks that the country you folks gave us uh it would be $33,000 or about $8,000 more than the standard and and I don't know this for sure this is what I got from them I I don't either so but let's just let's assume that they're correct um but to retrofit after the fact to years three years down the road instead of being 8,000 more than twice that cost it seems to me to make a lot more sense to put the uh IA system in now and I just want the board to consider that that's all the reason why I bring it up and one more thing the uh average monthly bill for a uh IA system is $19 a month or $228 a year roughly again this depending what website you go on who you talk to uh plus the annual operation and maintenance is anywhere between 68 and that's starting with uh year one where you have to do a lot more inspection years two through four to go down a little bit but in a previous application uh they were actually putting aside money for the U affordable units for for that type of service so I'm only putting it out that it makes sense to do uh an IA system now even if no one on the applicant side believes that it we're going to be in a nitrogen sensitive area which we're likely to be we don't know we don't have any definitive answers it makes sense to do the whole thing now at least for the affordable units yes move the units around so everything's in the front lot um and maybe put some money aside for the affordable units for years 1 through 4 I'm just putting it out there for thought no thoughts on that again I don't know the numbers I we haven't looked into what the cost is retrofitting or installing up front um so I can't really honestly can't say anything with it is coming up to give his thoughts yeah I'd say he's the engineer he doesn't have uh authority to make those kinds of decisions about ask about the authority I asked what he thought about the numbers I mean we can just condition it that way if the board chose to do that we could just I would say that I would I would say that a fair condition might be if the town of Falmouth and it's uh sweeping Authority uh puts out some bylaws and guidelines for the entire town they'd be applicable to uh this development and I think that's where it should fall that this shouldn't be singled out and uh because other developments have not been singled out so I think that I think that to be treated fairly and equitably I believe that we should be held to the same standard that the rest of the town is all the information I get and I've submitted copious letters that says just your opposite you believe something different well let as I have a reference town meeting and everybody else that believes it that's why they put the wastewater treatment plan there if you read just the letters that I submitted in the last two days so what I would say is is uh we're willing to uh if the town and Scott knows this if the town says Hey listen boom uh uh you know this is what's going to happen townwide I'd gamble that the town of Falmouth will not have these watersheds this particular Watershed with uh denitrification systems you know uh I know that uh one of the board members here speaks quite a bit about uh uh the buzz B Coalition letters and if you look at their letters never in their letter except for one of them do they talk they sent in like six scientists just put them in there but they have no position in the letters I could pull phds flying all the time Ed ikner his group are the ones at the town of Falmouth hired I've given you those letters his work is the way the Nitro the these W sheds were created was because his organizations five them through C Mas they were hired by the D to create the watersheds for the cape and some towns off the cape I I don't understand how that standard is different for this development and why that's my question why is why why is the standard different because it seems to be so different but if the town comes up with something and and we've only got half the units built and they say x y and z then I guess that's what we'd have to do but I think it's unfair for me to uh to study all these other applications and to look at things and I compare things you know uh quite often and I see the the only thing I can it distills down to me is is uh and and I wonder am I being held to a different standard one thing I didn't hear I have to make a correction I didn't hear anyone up here mention the Buzzards Bay Coalition tonight at all go ahead Mark Mark first off did you mention you just mention you just mentioned that's a fair question great huh did you mentioned both big Coalition yeah I did okay one person sorry yeah you just mentioned uh the placement of the of the wastewater treatment uh facility that that was completely misplaced the entire uh infiltration system that they built out of aluminum pipe sits there because it didn't work because they built that thing on top of Clay on top of a Rock Marine and it ran down and it polluted West Falmouth Harbor um so so a lot of the things you present to us as facts are not facts and um as I say if if what you said was correct we wouldn't be considering an outfall pipe which we are because they cannot put any more into those infiltration beds the town's grown when I left when I left here at 17 years old ago to college we had I think 11,000 people living here so the town has grown and that's really kind of been the problem my uncle John was a DPW commissioner at that time and he recommended I don't Phil an outflow and the town turned it down so now we're back at the same place to where he started but the the point is so but Mark let me say this you're asking me give me this for one second you just mentioned in your conversation five or six things that are speculative no they aren't you're telling me that I have because the town made a whole slew of mistakes is what you're saying just praised there and said that the The Genius of placing the plant there and and another thing is Brian house was in charge of the smass not your enner guy he might have worked for him I knew Brian house he's dead four different groups collaborated Brian house was was in charge of the entire sass theth Coast that's a fact let me say that there the town of Falmouth made decisions back in those days and at that time they they basically decided to have the uh affluent go out through West valava that's what they decided there was no reduction of nitrogen at all they didn't now the new technolog is allowed for it almost on top of that thing but you've just presented me with four or five things that you think the town did wrong are you asking me to resolve those things if I don't think they're wrong but are you asking me to resolve those are you asking me to uh be subject to some mistakes that you think the town made no I'm correcting the let's get off the subject of the Long Pond um is there anybody from the public that needs to speak on this come on up sir we need your name and address please my name is RO H greeny and uh my address is 850 West F withth Highway and I've been uh taxpaying citizen proudly of the town of fouth uh since 1974 uh I 50 years thank you uh I I couldn't be prouder of having had the opportunity to come down here uh with my bride um 60 plus years ago no I shouldn't say that 50 years ago uh because we were living in the town of Middleboro uh and I'm sure you all know that um the conditions in a town like Mike Middleboro are far different uh in terms of revenues and opportunities for uh families to uh enjoy the American dream if you will and that's what my wife and I have enjoyed uh I I'll get a little personal because I think it's important uh we we got to understand that we're all supposed to be family okay even though you know the the bureaucracies get into it uh we all have a point of view and uh my son played hocky with uh Eddie Montero over there and we enjoyed things like uh the Buddy Ferrar and the fouth hockey team going into born 30 years ago and having that relationship end because they had a fight uh now maybe we shouldn't enjoy that but that's the fact of the matter That's History T of Palou beautiful stuff we enjoyed going into Boston Garden uh when Dicky McAvoy I don't know if that name Rings about with any of you uh he was the goalie after Eddie and uh he went on to be uh the goalie when Harvard University won the National Championship so we got you know we got to get back to our roots and come together and do the best thing for the town of fouth and enjoy the history that we've enjoyed all of us there's nothing more important than that especially with I'm not getting political with you but you know uh times have changed and we all have to stand up and we have to come together and do the right thing for the town of helmouth all right um so I I get a little upset I I I can't tell you how uh proud I am to have you people as a board representing me as a citizen and I can't tell you how uh proud I am of uh your performance tonight although I got a couple of exceptions here this is uh from the perspective of being a citizen uh the gentleman in the corner and correct me if I'm wrong but I think you made a comment about Mr Pina uh not um being uh receptive to the needs of the inhabitants of the new developments 5 years from now am I wrong about that I don't understand what I don't remember saying that but maybe go a little bit further with that what what was I talking about what did I say uh you were talking about one of the issues between yourself and Mr Pina and there's no question in my mind that uh you made an adverse comment about Mr pina's ability uh to be cognizant of the needs of the people that are going to buy those units 5 years from now I'm saying that to you very specifically I believe that I I want m j yes I believe it was in response to his what appeared to be a lack of sensitivity to those folks and all I was doing was reacting to what appeared to me to be a lack of sensitivity if Mr pener is absolutely sensitive to their needs then I would certainly apologize for any dispersions I cast toward I'm just saying to you as a citizen uh I've only been to one of these things in 40 years and there's nobody in this town that's any more proud of this town than I am or any more in depth to this town than what they have for what they have done for my kids and the way that happens is because you make it happen you all make it happen because you stand up and you do your thing and we see that here tonight but uh I really am disappointed in your remark and I have to say that to you as a citizen I appreciate that and I'll the other thing I need to say about this gentleman over here and I think you you know your performances have been incredible just as Mr pener and his crew have been okay this is the United States of America still you made the comment about people with doctorates you correct me if I'm wrong M please uh having more credibility in effect in terms of the issues that are involved yeah in lie of the fact that that I can easily pick out parts of this letter that are incorrect and go too far and assume I mean it's my job yes this is a 40b project okay and it's this whole 40p B is designed to make affordable housing for those who can't afford it and it is our job to ensure that they not only get into those houses but they stay in those houses and they're not encumbered with some unreasonable cost down the road there are no absolutes just as in the map he showed us could very well change and it's also a well-known fact that the sewer plant was misplaced it it was an ill-conceived notion it has caused numerous problems West Falmouth Harbor and it continues let me get back to the point these are facts and they are the points as well and we have to defend all okay um you know I'm a street kid from Dorchester Massachusetts uh I've grown up and you know how I feel about the S of family and the job you people do okay and I'm saying to you just as I've challenge this gentlemen here that uh you're doing a dishonor to the town of Falmouth and our history and what we're supposed to be doing as Citizens you know whether you're on the board or whether you're just some kind of work and stob out there or whatever okay now as it happens you know my daughter was one of the first kids in F with well with Dicky mavo at the time I'm going back 30 35 years first two kids in in fouth to ever get a scholarship to Harvard University okay that's pretty nice stuff now what I'm telling you here is when you say that his information not based on doctorates versus your information based on credibility of the data and where it came from I've done gone head to-head I I've got an associates degree in Business Administration a long long time ago and I'm telling you I can go hard to I can go head-to-head with my daughter who is a PhD she's a psychoanalyst and she's the chairman of cultural studies at New York University okay so I'm saying you're out of line in terms of your premise I I stand citizen to you as a board member I stand behind everything that I said okay sir that's all I have to say Thank you Mr pel we appreciate it and thank all of you for your service thank you sir I make a brief comment go ahead Frank I don't think we're going to get anything productive going forward tonight um it seems to me and this just my personal opinion that the only way this is going to get resolved is if we have a proposed decision before us with conditions and waivers and we vote on each one of them as a board because I don't know how any anybody is going to on this board nobody really knows what anybody else thinks the only way we're going to get to this is to have something in front of us and vote on it my thoughts I agree well we're up against the deadline tonight anyway if we don't close unless the applicant was going to give consent but I would suggest closing and even if we were to get a continuance what would it prove we just have another meeting just like this with nothing accomplished I I just didn't know if they were going to change the plan they indicated they were going to change some Lots around we can tell them to change it I mean go ahead again Vicki Mitchell on behalf of uh the project what I would uh be asking is if what you're discussing is if you are asking for us to present uh similar to what uh the attorney that came before you on the last project suggested that she could give you a proposed um a set of proposed conditions for to that we would be that would be acceptable to us that we could start working from um is that something that you would be looking at with the with I know you're looking at we're talking about moving lots that you'd need to see which Lots we're moving in order to be able to move forward is that something that you would accept from us as a as a submission and how quickly could we get back before you because I know we are on this one up against the 180 days Madam chair um would to throw into the mix would um escrow account to pay for potential upgrades that as a condition be as acceptable and um do they uh uh can they be structured interest bearing and if it never came to fruition it would revert back to the applicant we could we could we could but that's a condition and we vote on it so bring I just want to you know you can answer her question too about the too many moving Parts well I I just made the comment that I think this case has far too many moving Parts yeah and the administrator may need to confer with the individual members to remember what they said so I think from an administrative point of view we should draft the decision and how about uh at at least them submitting the units they propose to be the affordables the changes that would certainly get us one step down the road submit something though that's the problem well I think I think the question before the board would be is the applicant willing to continue to come back with some modifications or is the hearing closing tonight right if the hearing does close we may close a hearing subject to the specific information being submitted within a specific time he had it half done right here a minute ago yeah I mean just that just that just that part is because that's the only thing that's well I'm not thrilled with the density I can tell you that and I mean I'm I can't tell you that I'm 100% going to vote for but my by far my largest concern is the affordability the affordability and that's our main job that's the whole purpose of 40b um you know it might not look pretty sometimes but that's the job we have to do like it Madam chairman if I may I would suggest that given that we've extended the same courtesy to the previous applicant if Council wishes to submit proposed conditions or findings they be allowed to do so yeah well you know I again um we made a ton of changes since the last time I was here last two times there's been a lot of changes we moved houses that's that's how I moved them on purpose so that the setbacks between those homes were 9 ft we've made all kinds of changes and so unfortunately Rich didn't get a chance to go through those we made landscape changes we have made $25,000 worth the changes moving houses putting more uh you call that not open space but we're going to De it open space uh we we've made we have uh the end we we've made all kinds of changes and unfortunately uh we didn't get to those changes because you know seems like we're always stuck on this nitrogen thing so um I if we could I'd like him to to go through the changes but if you don't want to I mean you guys have had them for nine days you've had them for nine days every single change we made distance between the houses equipment so we could put the leeching fields in uh if they fail um more parking uh we put very strong buffering on both on on particularly on the on the on the North side the south side is so buffered it's unbelievable I mean it's just heavily wooded but we've made we I say we have made we must have made 80 changes and and we haven't spoken to those I I I know you're busy sometimes you don't get a chance to look at them but I was hoping that Rick had a chance Richard to go through those changes so you can see the effort that we're putting in and the care that we have okay so I want to say to you that I was the first developer in this town to apply as a private person person to do affordable housing in this town and I end up making a folks here were from the affordable housing folks Frank knows this I made a $225,000 donation to the units that are built off Route 151 okay and so I was the first I asked norin why am I name isn't on that list there I was the first private developer Frank Duffy was the town attorney at that time Bob I met was that thing we've worked our butt off in this development we've worked even much harder on this thing we don't leave here and not address your issues I tried to address every issue you've given me you know so if if if you haven't looked through the stuff you you you'll see that when you do look through it so I'm not sure what you're suggesting but let's move forward and if if he can't get up here and speak then I guess uh uh what what do this distill down to where are we at um today's our our drop dead day um so I think the question before the board is whether the applicant is willing to extend to come back and further discuss any changes or whether they're not going to continue the hearing so I think you need to figure that piece out first we have five minutes excuse me I have a moment to the ramications of that what are the ramifications of not extending then we would have to close tonight close give a few minutes just ask a question you probably should wait till the should wait till they come so they can he a procedural question you can ask kti Taylor from Salt Pond are speak into the microphone Katie Taylor from Salt Pond area bird sanctuaries so those changes are those up on the um system on the website now the ones from nine dayso so I can look at them on there okay thank you that's Madam chair do you want to take a brief recess for fctv so there's not downtime yeah but they're right out there if you want oh I don't care I I would wait till they come back in if if that's okay he's sing dead air feels good doesn't it the poor people at home will be disappointed what we get 30 days or two week weeks figure it out it's because he why you did it I was going to bring that up but I thought stay out of it have a song or anything good good find school last night yeah I didn't watch it Frank said he went to bed at 32 and I said that's what it ended Frank St it three to two y three wins in a row that's a big deal so this year yeah so far I really don't know anything about this contract yeah subject to yeah subject to what happens next week you're only as good as your last game yeah that's right I mean Billy Martin get fired who was it said this that the Bruins fired so many coaches who won the standing cup after they right I think we lead the league in that yeah [Music] well yeah in a minute that's for sure well just in the last 15 years I think there's three of them right comes in with an extension we I watched the I saw this article about the record the lifetime record like two to one over expert to my right yeah's another cup though I thirsty 201 was a long time ago time goes by fast isn't it it's amazing yeah should we clock them back in yeah clock I think it's been give him a little time May it's a big decision way I look decision two minutes out yeah might save us two days in the house ready here we go we we have no problem with the board closing the hearing we will submit a a new map that will show the access for the affordable units and um whatever conditions that we if you're allowing us to submit conditions and then we will um we'll see what your orders okay I move we close the hearing I'll second that can we modify just to include specifically for the record that they're going to be submitting addition submit for consideration y say that again so we're going to submit for consideration the the new M all right so so the specific items though are moving the affordable designation and potentially any sort of septic with that is that the only change that you're asking for at this time at this time at this check you close that's isn't that's correct once once you close we don't have these types of uh no corre no further discussion right conditions yeah so we have a motion in a second and it's amended to accept yes okay and we have proposed conditions we sub we're going to submit proposed conditions and the new map and any additional information on two weeks how long do you wi us on that yes when would you like those two weeks yeah and try to keep them as separate as you can two weeks just to stay within the parameters but I'm not sure what you're asking well they they're not supposed to be clustered I mean oh yes the yes I understand I mean but but all the ones up high on the hill with the best view so it's just just so if you can spread them amongst the other area as evenly as you can that would be um that way there's no I mean you know what I'm talking about I I don't think we have the choice there because Mass housing is going to look at that when they don't see one every fourth so we'll do the best we can thank you for your motion a second all those in favor of closing I oppose none thank you so now you need a date to consider the decision oh boy and what's the drop dead date 40 days yeah so uh the hearing to review the draft would be on January 9th all right okay 9th how much time do we have after January 9th to the 40th Day uh a couple of days how ignoring I'm sorry I want to be clear on this what you say so they would be reviewing the draft decision on January 9th okay in two weeks we'll submit what we are proposed conditions M and then on January 9th you be voting on a decision yes correct and what's what's the other uh you mention two more 40 days from today no just the filing deadline deadline that means F deadline for the decision your attorney can fill you in okay okay fine now do I have to you want me to sign something for extension uh no because we're we're closing so there's no extension thank you thank you oh did we vote the date yes no oh how about V the dra I'll make a motion continue through dece January January 9th second all those in favor of the draft being done on January 9th I oppose none oh man okay let's all right let's let's do this all right minutes oh my God I don't have a minute oh my Lord there so many of them 19th 19th that's my he say review of the draft we submitted I think the minutes of October 24 and November 7 have been circulated can you guys go out in the hall and please anybody want want to make a motion I'll do it let's accept the minutes of October 24 and November 7 second everybody all set on those y right up second it all those in favor I oppos None it's only administrator updates um I I'm not going to trouble you given the hour I will I will tell you just briefly though that there was a department head meeting today the um Board of Health agent did report that these changes for IIA systems are happening very happening very rapidly like really fast and right and that what he told you yesterday is going to change today is going to change tomorrow and so the Board of Health is looking at these subdivisions as being the first targets for IAS next are going to be um new houses raise and rebuilds following that additions they may actually even look at dollar amount improvements so any homes that are you know similar to what you're doing with flood planes now flood zones by the time a building permit is pulled the Board of Health could also change what they're going to require so if that happens between the time this decision is issued and they pull a building permit they may have no choice but to install right correct where it goes okay regardless of the regardless whatever the board of help has ruled at the time is what they're going to be stuck with what else we got what else what else discussion agenda not that I'm cutting you off I am no it's it's it's enough board discussion not tonight we got through that board updates we had last Thursday off it was awesome future agenda items December 12th next Thursday and our next meeting will be December 12th at 6 p.m. Mark motion to adjourn and second we got a motion and a second to adjourn all those in favor I oppose there better not be anybody [Music]