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all right we'll call the meeting order on behalf of the Planning Commission I'd like to welcome our residents and viewers to this regular meeting of February 11th 2025 before we get into our agenda I'd like to introduce our new commissioner Mr Andy Berg uh Andy congratulations on
your appointment thank you thank you for serving the community yeah glad to be here D thank you all right um as we get into the agenda uh each February is our organizational meeting um this is where the commission elects their officers and goes through their committee assignments
uh for the first portion of the election of officers I'll turn the meeting over to the planning manager Tony whitler Tony thank you Mr chair commission members uh yes as chair uh Rody had mentioned uh this meeting we need to elect a uh chair and vice chair from uh
the commission um so with that we'll take it uh first for chair I'll take a nomination nomination for dirt do we have a second I'll second do you accept i' accept it all
right and then uh we will take a nomination for vice chair I'll nominate commissioner tesy do we have a second second uh will you accept yes all right all right that's it Tony that's it
for that all right I'll thank everybody for your vote of confidence we'll get into the committee assignments um and I'll read through them and ask and if you're willing to accept just confirm it and we'll move on to the next one we'll take a motion at the end uh the first uh
committee and and the commission is represented along with Council and um some staff when we meet with uh surrounding townships and the City of Empire um so we look for uh commission members to serve on each one the first one is the Empire Farmington planning
advisory committee commissioner winshuttle will you accept this yes all right the second one is a Castle Rock Discussion Group commissioner tesy would you be willing to accept that yes all right then we got the Eureka Planning Group commissioner snowbeach would you be willing to accept that yes the last
committee is referred to as a Musa Review Committee and to simplify it it's the extension of sanitary sewer for future growth in our community um It's a larger um committee there's individuals from the school board and the council
and staff and all that so commissioner Berg would you be willing to serve with that on that with me yes all right with that then as committee assignments can I have a motion to uh assign them as as agreed to is there a motion I'll motion to sign motion is there a second I'll
second motion and second rooll please windshadow yes tesy yes Rody yes snow yes B yes all right now we'll get into our agenda um on tonight's agenda we have two discussion items uh before we get into the um discussion items we've
got a housekeeping item and that would be the minutes from a January 14th regular meeting are there any additions or corrections to those minutes if not is there a motion motion to approve motion for approval is there a second a second motion and second all
in favor say I hi hi minutes are approved all right we'll move into our discussion items the first discussion item is the potential beekeeping ordinance Jared you're going to take this correct thank you chair Planning Commission members so at the August 14th
2024 Planning Commission meeting um a discussion was held regarding a potential beekeeping ordinance um the goal of that discussion was just to get initial feedback from the commission on if there is any interest in pursuing such ordinance um there was interest but the commission would like to see some information on surrounding communities
and their ordinances and um comparing them so staff has collected and compared existing ordinance information from Lakeville Rosemont Egan as well as the Minnesota hobby Beekeepers Association model ordinance so an ordinance comparison
table um along with some common terms is attached um staff um will kind of summarize how the ordinances were outlined as well as some of the common requirements that we found um and so after going through that uh we are looking for the Planning Commission uh
to review and ask staff um any questions that you guys may have and then we also are looking for direction on if you guys would like to pursue a draft ordinance or um and then what standards you guys would like to see so just a breakdown of kind of how the typical ordinance
outline would look for a beekeeping ordinance you would have your definitions permit requirements performance standards and then your permit inspection or termination and then some of the requirements uh performance standards uh throughout um
these ordinances was the permit process um so two of them I found that they were annual permits reviewed by staff with the exception of Lakeville they um did the interm use process for them uh the zoning they're typically allowed in Agricultural and uh single family
residential districts uh Colony density so the number of colonies allowed depends on the lot size um Lots less than 0.5 Acres can have a maximum of two colonies um a majority of single family lots in Farmington um would meet this
threshold um the location of the colonies typically they're only allowed in the rear yard um and then setbacks they varied from 10t to 20 ft from any lot line uh Rosemont allows a minimum of 10t and then Egan has a minimum of 30
feet from an adjacent dwelling unit deck patio swimming pool or other outdoor living space uh when it comes to construction equipment um colonies need to be kept with removable frames and kept in good condition uh material such as wax comb
or other debris shall be promptly removed from the site to prevent robbing from other bees um any unused equipment shall be secured or stored indoors um in terms of barriers or screening um if a c if a hive is kept within 25 ft of a lot line a Flyway
barrier is required in between the hive and the lot line of at least 6 ft in height consisting of either a wall fence dense vegetation uh these barriers Force bees to fly upwards out of the hive instead of directly into let's say the neighboring
lot in terms of living conditions um each Hive or Colony shall be provided a convenient source of water um hives shall be continuously managed to provide adequate and Healthy Living Spaces to prevent swarming um Behavior if a colony exhibits aggressive behavior The
Beekeeper shall promptly determine the cause and correct it um this includes requeening if required um a nucleus Colony so for each colony allowed there may maybe one nucleus colony and a hive a nucleus Colony um from what I've read is kind of
helps get the hive or the colony up and going um and then so for beekeeper education the applicants must demonstrate they have a complete full course on beekeeping um as I've read it's a pretty um the 's a lot of components that go
into beekeeping so having a requirement on beekeeper education would be um would be necessary and then some other requirements that I found was that fruit trees and other flowering trees um may not be sprayed while in Full full bloom um with substance harmful to bees then
also if the beekeeper provides a service um throughout the City by removing a swarm of bees from an undesirable location um they shall be allowed to temporarily house the Swarm for no more than 30 days um in terms of inspection um the city May inspect the property at
any any reasonable time to determine compliance with the ordinance and then termination permits will terminate if expired there's a transfer of ownership um of the property if a violation of the ordinance or perent requirements is occurring or a public nuisance has been
declared so if the commission has any questions um for staff on um the ordinance comparisons feel free to ask um otherwise I'd look for feedback on potential requirements that the commission would like to see in an ordinance all right thank you Jared nice
job um and the reason just to give a little background the commission ask for comparison is you you want some some some kind of consistency um and if you can look at neighbors um what they're doing especially if this is new to our community um you know we don't have to
be the first one to learn it but uh so that's why what I thought we could do is first go through questions if you got something unique and then maybe to help staff um go through it we'll kind of walk through some of the the different requirements that Jared laid out and try to come to some kind of consensus on
what direction before we get into a public hearing with the you know with the residents and stuff and send it on to our city council um and I'm alluding that that more than likely we'll come with a an ordinance
but that's still to be considered also so I don't mean to take that Advantage but we'll start with commissioner tesy so um thank you for pulling together the comparisons of the other communities it was really helpful and relevant in kind of making some of the decisions for me around what we should move forward with
um I I was excited to see that properties of less than a half an acre actually can support two colonies that was surprising to me I didn't expect that um based on what I'm seeing in other communities so um my only other question would be with regard to
enforcement or inspection is that going to be then similar chickens um complaint based or would there be a yearly inspection that happens or an annual inspection that happens with that do we know I would
um assume that it would be complaint basis and there would be since if it would be an annual permit we would do an annual inspection as well good and then would would the city require any education on that or
is as in my opinion yes there would need to be um obviously more education on staff side to perform the inspection but you know on the same side the applicants um part to them being informed on you know their
requirements that they have to keep up with as well got it okay that's it me and and you'll have another opportunity later commissioner winshuttle no I just think uh like commissioner tesy said here I think education I think is
key I think to this whole thing um I certainly don't know a lot about it I can't imagine a lot of residents do and I think it could do more harm if you know the applicant doesn't know something about bees and tries to raise them um I think you know just looking at
the setbacks um you know I I like Eagan uh what they have the 30 feet just with decks patios pools um you know cuz he's are going to be in the back yard um so I
think that you know doesn't have to be 30 ft you know that's something we could certainly discuss but I like that that the requirement or setback and as far as the inspection part so if if the city you know wants inspect with any you know any reasonable amount of time to
determine compliance can they what happens if they say no you can't you know what are we going to do if they say no you can't come check the compliance of my hes is it is it then does the permit just null and void and over with
or we would probably pursue additional enforcement routes if you know they were being difficult if we couldn't go and inspect the site and enforce the permit requirements that they yeah um signed off on we' probably pursue additional enforcement measures or would there be
like a you know theine print at the bottom you know failure to allow City to inspect terminates us right that that could be that's typically how we would do that we even with like our chicken Urban Chicken permit um if they fail to
comply that permit can terminate okay if we determine that they're you know being unreasonable or not not doing what they need to do to keep up with the regulations uh those permits can be terminated it's all in how
you write the ordinance and um essentially the application as well sure um and being this is a completely new ordinance the plan commission and Council have quite a bit of latitude as to how you as a group or as the city
want to have this ordinance structured um so as far as the inspection or the termination that can all be laid out in the ordinance and I think that's probably a good thing just to save City and staff time you know if they don't want to comply with an inspection then you know have that in
the permit and well when you're done no that's it for now for me if the commission agrees I I kind of like Phil's suggestion and so that we don't forget about it Jared I I think that should be included if we do proceed with an an ordinance okay so if the
commission agrees all right commission snck yeah all good questions and thanks for your work um couple things you know I look at some of the surrounding cities have fees um and I think if we're doing inspections there should be maybe some sort of fee right um and then I think
that um solidifies that they're going to be you know they're invested in in doing this so um what's what's your guys recommendation on a fee for if if if they are do we do i' have to look for for chickens is there a fee um for chickens we do have a feif for chickens
correct would you foresee it to be very similar to that more than likely okay yeah and the council would set the fees Council does set the fees yes yeah believe it's $1 $100 for yeah for the initial permit correct yep
um Just one thought on the on the whole looking at this Matrix of surrounding cities I do like um The Egan setup where it's pretty specific um some of the other surrounding cities are less specific and and you know it's something we can always update throughout time if
we find that that we've been too specific right um I I just liked when I looked at Egan I kind of felt like I understood what they were um the goals of it were um because it was more specific I don't know what the rest of the um board um thinks but I I did like
that it was um specific and the last thing is you know I just see what if there's a grievance of a family that continues to have problems with bees they have a pool they have whatever you know playground for their children what what would a grievance look like they would approach the city is there a
process if there's a grievance of bees causing issues in their yard correct we would probably receive a complaint and then we would go out and inspect and then make a determinable cause um at the staff level if there was
if it was either trying to make the connection between the hive itself to that issue or if it's naturally you know CU bees you know occur naturally in the environment um that's definitely the toughest part that we would have to distinguish if you
know if it's strictly coming from The Hive itself or if it's just just bees in general in the environment um that would probably be a challenge for us to determine that if that came up but it would be something that we' have to at least Monitor and go out and look at so so what would it look like to
terminate someone's permit you know if there's continued issues over a summer period five I don't know five inan incidents or like how does that just trying to picture what this looks like if a hive is infringing on neighbors properties do you guys know where I'm
going with this yeah right and I don't know that we have that exact answer for you this evening that's something that we can work through with uh legal council as we D if if this goes to a draft ordinance we can certainly try to address that in the ordinance um work
with our legal council to see what you know what that process would look like um and we would certainly want to include that kind as an outline within that ordinance as well um
so yeah I don't know that I have a good answer for you on that specifically tonight that's something we certainly will work towards um achieving if this does go to the next stage of actually developing an ordinance we'll want to include that in that ordinance and make
sure that the commission is comfortable with whatever we initially put in that ordinance be nice if a Community member approached us and they were having issues there's a defined process and if andc occur this
might give us reason to inspect andoss removal if things haven't changed like maybe there's ways that beekeepers can install their walls we'll make sure it's not flying towards the neighbors all those things because I mean we want good uh citizens that have beehives to to do
a good job of protecting neighbors along with their own Hive too so absolutely yeah I think you know I think the the barriers to me seem interesting to force them to fly higher and not kn a lot of bees so as you guys look into that will you figure out like what that looks like
that's a good question and that no doubt will have to be addressed I mean it's it's similar to if you in other ordinances I I use again the chicken one if if they become a nuisance to the neighbors and and what what other response of the city and eventually to
that property owner that has the permit but go back to your question on ordinance and and in the past I think the commission and and the council um without too much government reach on an ordinance sometimes it's easier to
include more up front and take away rather than trying to add later on when there's a problem and you didn't think about it so I I think initially what we've done is we maybe included some things and then no doubt the future commissions future councils will maybe
say okay you know it seemed like a good idea of it but it's not much you know necessary anymore to have this in there so you know we'll try to do the best best job we can and pass it on to our city council and and they're pretty detailed also so they'll they'll go through it also but any else Mitch no
that's good thank you commissioner Berg uh just two questions really the first one is around the other requirements and other the fruit trees and other flowering trees may not be sprayed are we referring specifically on that property or are we talking about within a certain distance of the
hive that's a good question I would consider that as on on the prop on the property itself I don't think you could really regulate somebody else's property like that and and that's why asked was thinking about commissioner snow book's question around enforcement if you have a neighbor who all of a sudden gets
really mad at your hive and decides to start spraying their flowers you know in retribution for not wanting them there um it'd be interesting to have that outlined a little bit more in the ordinance on what that means sure um
secondly just around the data did we get any information from any of the cities around how many of these permits they've seen uh applied for and permitted so far sure so I did reach out I only heard back from Lakeville as of today yeah um
they enacted their ordinance in 2017 um from citizen request but they actually did not get their first approved permit um until May of last year um they do have to to go through the interm use permit process so
that requires a large public notification um process it's got to go to Planning Commission then it got has to get approved by city council and it comes to like a $500 fee so it's definitely more of a process but they only have one active Okay permit since
approving an ordinance in 2017 and they've had no no complaints yet from that um from that Hive okay great that's all I've got all right thank you Andy yeah got a few questions um and maybe
they start down the road of of what the commission's thinking about what was staff's thought process on the initial request and um the process that you thought I know with chickens we started doing it as the commission public hearing and you know we reach out to
neighbors and then the neighbors would at least be notified what was your thought on how this process would start and go would it be the public hearing or would it just be CU we modified the chicken one did to now where it's more
of a staff um permit review I would be comfortable with modeling it after our current chicken ordinance where the adjacent Property Owners would get notified but keeping it not where they don't have to
come to a public hearing um but if that's something the commission would you know well I'm going to ask him next but that that' be my recomend recomendation to the commission that we have a similar process as we do with chickens and that would be staff L most of us went through the chicken public
hearings and yeah maybe we'd get a neighbor but usually it was just the the applicant and maybe their their children that would come because the children were the ones active but is the commission comfortable with that how how does that work so like you notify the
neighbors you know un like chickens right now like just adjacent because what happens if two doors down they object to it so they could object to staff but or it's not necessarily
giving them an opportunity to formally like object it's more just an information saying letting them know there is an approved permit at this property if you have any questions about you know what the permit itself is like please reach out to City staff and we
can better inform you of the the requirements on that permit and I think it's you know with part of that notifying those you know residential neighbors it couldn't hurt to have some sort of flyer in there or website like to direct people to to do their own
research on it saying you know because again most people think like you know there's going to be bees flying everywhere and they're going to sting people and and you know because just the average citizen or resident again probably doesn't know right well as a requirement this beekeeper education I think is extremely important and anyone
app CL should have some sort of they should go throughout the online course or whatever it is um because then I would think that they could help speak to that or guide them to a location that they could do some research as well yeah just so the neighbors you know there's going to be people that object to it it's just so they're aware like to help
them ease their mind on as far as bees you know and and having the fencing and barrier I think is key I think that's important because it you know if you do have the neighbor that objects it certainly puts a mod of sight out of mind you know and I agree with both comments and and
well Christa mentioned the education what was staff's thought proc what were you going to require for if somebody were to come in next week and say I want to do this now because I heard you're talking about it what kind of requirements for Education would staff say this is what I'm looking for correct
so I think um I don't know if I would have an exact you know footprint of like exact documentation that they would have to provide but I think um that's something we can further narrow down okay at a future meeting on what sort of you know
do we need to see a certificate of you know or what sources are you getting your education from um that's something we can definitely narrow down okay but I'm going to ask the commission for consensus you you feel there needs to be some education everybody yes yeah in fact Ian has it outlined really well in
fact I would follow that one pretty closely actually yeah and you know this is a the first blush on this we'll certainly have a draft ordinance before you before we even get to a public hearing okay um that way we can flesh out some of the
specifics okay um but yeah we'll have you'll have multiple shots at this ordinance single family residential zoning districts would you include all of them would you include all of them ju I would include just the zoning
districts that permit a single family dwelling okay so have to be a little when you write it be a little careful because you don't want to get yep caught too much with you know other ones but I
agree with you I don't think I would do multi or anything like that okay um I agree with Phil's thing about you know the a little start out the setbacks a little deeper than maybe rather than 10 ft go a little longer than that sure
commission agree I mean again that's one of those things Mitch that we you know you can always Whittle back if you find out it's becoming too big of an issue staff I'm sure we come in and say you know what you know whatever they have 2530 is too long we need to go you know go to something else but I think let not
sell ourselves short initially or else we're going to hear it um FlyAway barrier I understand that now um I and I'll admit right now I'm not a b expert so I'm going more by what's staff goes but the education I agree with
Christa um let's see if I got anything else I I did I knew I had one on Behavior if the colony exhibits aggressive behavior who's going to determine is that going to be kind of a The Beekeeper itself or the neighbors
or what more than likely that would come through the neighbors okay that's I think where maybe Mitch was going with the complaint yeah so all right let me cut that back so I'm you know I'm pretty comfortable with what the commission's already asked and
done like that we can go through and if the commission's got any things um we're fine with the with the permit type uh the process is what we talked about is Staff um zoning districts you know single family only the density the
location you know rear rear yard I think we're all in agreement with that St is to um setbacks we talked longer the better at least initially um barrier screening I think that's laid out were you going to go with all the
types then Jared you're thinking correct so definitely I think um you know there's definitely some just general um termination that some of the communities have used where they're just requiring some sort of barrier whereas
Egan requires a barrier and then they require it to run parallel 10 feet in both directions so giving it more protection per se um instead of just you know wherever the hive is just one single barrier and that's it whereas
they require a full length um down that lot line so if that's something that the commission would be more comfortable with too I can add in extra language um regarding that on the barrier but yes anything from some sort of wall fence um
dense vegetation um I would include that within the ordinance for the commission 10 foot to so le start out with or not I'm comfortable with that I think so too you know let's start there and 10 foot in length y yeah six foot high yeah I
think you know let's start out again it can always be shaved back you know um source of water what what what does that mean what is it a sprinkler is it a pond is it a what I don't understand that so I think there's
different ways you can do it um I'm not a b expert but I know I think there's certain equipment that you can insert in the hive that allows running water to be accessible right to the hive or it's as simple as you know
providing some sort of little pool of water right next to the hive that they can access when I when I read that I would assume it is so they're not searching out to find water in other people's yards right so that's why you have it close right yeah are are these
year round hives or do they close down in the winter so my brother happens to be a beekeeper so I so they actually will hibernate for the winter but they do have to go inside um so he takes his from the outdoor space inside of his
garage and they don't see them again until spring when it warms up again um so they do hibernate in the winter okay yeah heated garage no it's not as long as it's protected from wind they're fine um if it gets extremely cold he
sometimes will put a a heater out there but as long as it's wind protected they're they're fine Minnesota uh Iowa so close enough yeah close enough interesting all right thank you yeah you're welcome you a field trip to visit is love that should look into that love
that um behavior of Education we said need something and Jared will decide what that might be um in I think there needs to be some kind of inspection Jared I don't know what the commission think but you know what I again the neighbors may be upset and just not calling you but I think there needs to
be some kind of inspection at some point just like we do with chickens okay yes and we would want to ensure that you know they're meeting the setback requirements they've got the barrier in place um and just that yeah they're meeting all the performance requirements
as well any any idea on this education part does this uh Minnesota hobby Beekeepers Association do they have people that that would go out and ins hives like you know I wonder if if it's if this is like a volunteer organization
or is it sure I definitely think between them and I know the University of Minnesota has a big um B education program there too where they have volunteers that you can have come out and you know provide education or ideas
on and I'm sure inspected as well too on if there's any problems and I just think for even this complaint based system you know you know not that city city staff can't learn it but uh you know if you had one of those people out there saying
you know this is the fourth complaint we've received on this can you come out and tell me what's exactly if something is wrong here or is it just Natural Bees flying around you know right no that would be a great resource for sure I do know also that USDA if you're going to
sell the honey they also require inspections of the hi site things like that too so that might be another resource that that would be available I think about all right the last one I had the termination suspension I think several Commissioners brought that up and we'll let staff
noodle that before but um it'd be my impression that I I think we should proceed with the draft ordinance at least gives us something to look at and go from there agree yes Jared did you get enough information or did you get
too much just enough thank you I don't know all right appreciate everybody's questions and comments um move on from there we'll go into our second discussion item
that's the open meeting law so are you going to take this I will take this uh thank you uh as this commission is a publicly appointed uh body uh the commission does have to uh abide by the open meeting law
requirements um So within your packet there is uh a little additional packet if you will from the league of Minnesota cities um kind of outlining uh what open meeting law is what the requirements are um things that the commission can
and can't do um basically open meeting law serves three vital purposes the first it prohibits actions from being taken at a secret meeting where the interested public cannot be fully informed on decisions that the this uh
commission would take uh it ensures the public right to be informed and it gives the public an opportunity to present its views on the subjects that are being discussed um there are a couple high points that I do want to point out that
are in the in your packet um regarding um open meeting law basically some things that you shouldn't do um the first is avoid gathering in a quorum outside of a regular meeting a quorum for this particular commission is three or more uh commission
members uh if a quorum is present at a social Gathering please do not discuss decide or receive information on City business uh dealing with serial discussions so that would be um discussions of less than a quorum um
that are happening more regularly um could be uh considered a violation of the open mean law under certain circumstances so avoid phone calls emails texts and social media to discuss City business uh in order to avoid that
social media or meeting tag um try to have these discussions during regular meetings um there are a few exceptions to the open meeting law um many of these deal with the city council um for things such as labor negotiations
um those they those they can have um as a closed meeting um but they are few and far between um and then the last any person who intentionally violates the open meaning law is subject to civil penalty up to $300 for a single
occurrence um and should be noted that the public body does not pay for that penalty that is on the person who does the infraction so um those are the high points um um certainly read through the information if you have any additional
questions feel free to reach out to me I can certainly discuss that further with you um it was just provided for your information this evening though so that's all I got any questions for staff on the open meeting law no all right was there anything else
from staff I have nothing any else from the commission if not I'll remind our residents and viewers our next regular meeting will be March 11th and with that I look for mtion to adjourn I'll make a motion we have a motion is there a second second motion and second all in favor of adjournment say I hi we're
officially ajour thank you [Music] [Music] [Music] he [Music]