still hear us now. Bill Technically the meeting was never recorded. Technically the meeting was never recorded. No audio. everything you've said the all the original Oprah
uh no I mean as long as we really haven't started we're not all right all right Bill can you hear me can you take yourself off mute yes I can hear you now you can hear me though I was just like going back to 2023 when you returned money to the library or the library
returned money to us because you like go back to that for the council what you told about funding. Yeah. So, um back uh 23 when we were doing the budget, um the director came
to me at that time saying that we gave him too much money the prior year or he had too much of a surplus or something the prior year. Um so that he didn't need as much this year, but we kept his funding level the same as the
prior year. um to keep it steady and and you know we said okay if you need it for capital improvements or whatever you can use it for that and that's that's what we did at that time. Um and I'm not sure I've never heard of you know not having
having a certain surplus or something in the library. I'm not sure what he was talking about. Okay. So and then in 24 they did not submit a request and in 25 they didn't submit request. Correct. Well, no. They gave me their their
budget request. They did they um it uh it was in line with what it was prior, so it wasn't anything more. Okay. So apparently what's happened is that the big project they visited at the
library where they removed all the aspectus and they put in drains and cleaned up the basement and made the basement waterproof and then discovered that there was sewage line leak and they had to do that which was not part of their budget and they were using reserve funds which were mostly from a request
from one of our residents who passed away. Um can somebody pass another chair on please? um they have basically led all of their reserve funds that were always used for
you know close budget goals and they don't I don't know if they can make operating budget to the end of the year if we don't do something so what I am proposing to the council they're worth about $75,000 and they've expended almost 400,000
on in public building uh library money that um we give them capital money from our capital account which Bill explain how to do that so they can close their
budget hole because they asked us for no funding on that building at all. So Bill, can you walk through um 49.
Yes. So, my suggestion um because the beginning of the year we had $333,000 in our um capital improvement fund. Have anybody else walk into this meeting without us having to not have a public hearing tonight? So, is there Can I just
see a show of hands? How many of you are not here not here for the public hearing tonight and just wanted to get a comment session or here for something else? You're here for the taxi stuff? Yes. So, you're just going to come in public comment and then you're not going to stay. Uh, where you going to stay?
No, we're just going to talk about that while we were talking the last time. Okay, fine. All right. So, we'll be okay. Um, so you can hang on. So, I just can't let anybody else walk in until I lose a couple. Can you explain to the people outside? Yeah. Hold on.
Yeah, there's going to be some seats in Okay. All right. So, I'm sorry. This has been really disruptive. I'm sorry, Bill. Um, sorry. Can you can you talk about capital accounts, please?
Yeah. So, our, as I was saying, our capital improvement uh fund account, which is for down payments and stuff like that on bond ordinances, had 333,000 in the beginning of the year. We added 300,000 um in the budget this year, but then we
used 475,000 for purchasing that second fire truck. So there um currently is about 158,000 in there. Um which is a bonding capacity of about 3.1 million. If we took 75,000
out of that, you know, it would bring us down to like a $1.6 million bonding capacity. So, I don't really want to take any more out of that um than we have to just in the event there's some kind of emergency. So, my recommendation would be to next meeting if if you're
okay with this do a a bond ordinance for the 75,000 but I would never borrow the money and I would just pay it back in the budget over the next two or three years or something like that. um you know through through normal budget um funding
and uh you know that way it'll keep that money in the capital improvement fund in the event of an emergency and obviously we're going to build it back up um in next year's budget as well. Anybody have any questions for Bill on this?
Could you kind of tell us the essence of that? It was very hard to understand. So basically we have the we have the cash in our capital account. Bill doesn't want to just give them he doesn't want to do a a bond for it. He just want I mean he wants to do a bond but he's not gonna actually do the bond.
So we're going to pay ourselves back so we can give them the money the library and then pay ourselves back over time through our normal budgeting process. So right though bottom line correct
right anybody from the council any questions? Anybody from the council any concerns? Everybody on the council okay with this because he'll put forward you'll put something forward as an introduction. Um it's an ordinance right? Yes. Okay. So they'll be introduced to the
next meeting. Yep. Okay. And then after that after that we'll be able to uh prove it and sending the money to the library. Is that where council will come in?
Okay. Thank you. All right. Uh, also at our last meeting, um, Councilman Long, who's also our police commissioner, brought up the subject of hiring two police officers. Um, I was called by the chief who has people he want to interview, but we never actually
asked for consensus on whether or not the council was willing to hire two. So, I would like to just pull the council um to see if you're all willing to hire two police officers. We are. We currently have two. It's academy. We are down three
and uh we have two coming in. So we would be technically down one, but I know that the chief recently received a request for a letter of recommendation police department in Florida for another police officer. So um so uh Councilman
Egleart. Yeah, absolutely. Talk to the chief about that briefly committee meetings. I'm fine. Okay, I know Congress. Absolutely. Yes, love it. Okay. All right. So, um
Council Long, you can tell the chief to go ahead and interview. Okay. Okay. Um I also want to let you know the HPC ordinance that Councilman Ryan has brought forward um has some um like technicalities. It's it references
an an employee position we don't have in this bureau as well as some other things. I did call the chair of the HPC who said that's just language that came in and we can amend it. So, Councilman Rice and I are going to go through it. There's some typos um some words missing. So, it just needs to be cleaned
up before it can get introduced. Um I know you know sent to all you. I also wanted to tell you all that after a year and seven months in searching for
longtime lifelong resident Larence Boddine's will who councilwoman Tilly told us in December of 2023 had bequeathed money to the burrow for concerts in the park.
I have finally gotten a copy of the will. uh it had taken forever to find it to see if there were parameters put on the will restricting the use of the money. He bequeathed the burrow $171,000. Wow.
In his will in 2014 u for concerts in the park in the summer. He bequeethed our library the same amount of money and restricted them to use the interest only for books. and he also booked the same amount to his church in the burough for concerts in
the church. So the language is a little convoluted in my for my reading and I couldn't tell if he restricted us to interest as well. Revenue Marsha you and I exchange texts and also emails uh I can run this past my the estate lawyer that I
well what was your revenue as I said revenue then it's the investments of the estate. Okay, that's how I mean, right? So, so that the good news is that we now know about the money, where it is, how it was. The bad news is that
when our CFO was given the check of $171,000 in 2014, he was not given the will, nor was he told about any restrictions. So like with most of our escro accounts, the interest has been taken off of the account over all these
years and it had been used to close budget holes. So we can't go backwards. So going forward um there'll be some sort of interest coming off of that that we can use to have concerts in the summer
in the Cork Street park. That was the restriction. And I am asking council um Councilman Wong who is the liaison to the fire company that requested funds to put on a fundraising concert two years
ago and Councilman Aras who was the liazison to Samuel Fleming um which is one of our in but not ofs um who do fundraising to support their building to sit with me and come up with
some parameters to recommend to the council. because we're not talking about a lot of money, you know, we're talking two to I don't know 6,000 a year maybe that might be thrown in interest and you know how we want to restrict it so that not that it's really
used for you know our fire department, our EBA, our museum, our library, um our commissions that do fundraising to help support things that they want to do. Um, so we don't have, you know, general
public and not part of our family just asking us for money because it's not going to be a lot. So are you okay with that? Okay. So just to understand, you want the fire department to No, I want you as a result. Well, I mean just the two of you can justify why.
Um, just like the case from the library. We also might want to host a fundraising concert, but Samuel Fund does action, you know, like difficult hard fundraising under tricky trade fund a lot of the programming in the fire department also, right? So,
I just thought like let's talk about what we can recommend to the council as far as a resolution on how this money should be. Okay. So um we have some kind of logical a logical way a justifiable way for the
council to vote to give out money to organizations that export it. All right. So I'll set up the meetings. Um and finally um I think um is everybody okay if we have the auditor want the auditor in at the next meeting
just to walk everybody through the audit? I would. Yes. Yes. Yes. Okay. So, Bill, can you arrange to get the auditor here to walk everybody through it? Yep. Not a problem. Okay. So, that's my report. Um, Councilman Ryas,
um, to be honest, I really do not have much to report. Could you use the microphone? Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah, not really much to report. Just been, uh, busy doing a couple events, working, and, um, not really much going on right now other than the HBC ordinance that we're
working on. But yeah, other than that, I got nothing else to report. Thank you. Thank you, Councilman Egoart. We have two um reports, the animal control and filth. Uh first, animal control the
uh when the dates landed. This is actually the report for August, how the dates landed on the on the calendar um and what was submitted. So, for the month of August, there were seven calls, two cats, five wildlife. I have been um
enjoying adding a new um animal to almost every month. So, this month's new animal is a pigeon. We there was um a call about a pigeon with that was tagged. So, that's fun. Uh bird, raccoon, and four skunks. Um I think
they used the four skunks as one wild. Um but no issues as far as any type of testing that we know of a concern. So nothing to report as far as concerns with any of the wildlife um from their from the role
um uh um and the other thing I wanted to report was the film. So, the state film commission has actually established a date and a joint press conference for us, Larville,
Clintontown, and um Flemington at our courthouse um because apparently our courthouse is something that um many Hollywood producers have on their short list for um wanting to film here. So,
Wednesday, October 22nd at 3 PM, there'll be a um press conference. The state film commission will be here. Um there'll be a little explanation of what the New Jersey Film Ready tour is. Um the county exe um
economic development and tourism not on. Oh, okay. Having trouble hearing you. Okay. Sorry. thought I had it close enough. Um so the county economic development and tourism
um group has uh especially got to extend thanks to uh Mark Salic um has up has filed all of our forms and then once we get the final approval from the state commission we can then start expanding our database with our local businesses
and local residents locations and um uh services that some of the local business provide. for example, which have tea shops and tailor and caterers and all that stuff gets put into a database so that when um a producer comes and says, "Hey, you know what's offered here?" We
could say, "Hey, here's a whole list of vetted um you know uh businesses that can help you. There's a whole vetted list of um homes that and streets that are kind of film ready." Um so that's Wednesday, October 22nd at 3 p.m. So, uh
it's a press conference and they'd love to see a lot of bodies there. Great. Thank you, Councilman Sarah. I think you addressed the library issue very accurately. Um, I did attend the parking committee, the mayor's parking committee meeting on Thursday and
pleased to see that we are getting very close to articulating lights um at one of the intersections as well as our parking system upgrade, which earlier this year we all voted to add an additional police officer. that
headcount was specifically for um administration of this new parking system. So happy to see that this is coming very close. Thank you. Um next environmental commission meeting will be here in this
room on October 6th. The next shade tree commission meeting will be on a Monday, October 20th instead of the usual Wednesday date. November's meeting will also be moved to a Monday to better date one of the member schedules. Uh there is a tree ordinance that we were required to introduce uh from the DP
um about a year ago. We still have not gotten it, but I have been told we will be getting a draft of it very soon. Shade tree commission will be reviewing it and sending it to council hopefully the next month or so. Um and lastly, the
shiny fall newsletter is available. Nice. Um, and actually I hate to ask this, but I I would do it myself, but I will not be able to make it there. Mr. McN, would you please be able to get a handful of copies of the closet and put it onto the table out there for me?
So that way it's in the mail room. That way if anybody here in this room wants to read a copy on their way out, you can grab one. Well, they're by the window, are they? Never mind. They're already out there. No, that's okay. Put more out. I don't
know how much. And uh that's it. Thank you. Uh the tree ordinance was brought up at the planning board and through um McManis and she's supposed to be getting finalized environmental commission prior to going
to here down the hall if you need to ask her a question. I don't think so. She's out there. So I didn't know if there was something you needed. Um, excellent. I want to thank um I want to thank Cook for helping again with the
newsletter and uh honorable Brett and I and Christine and I want to thank all of the employees of the bureau that submit articles. Um, great. And uh, and anybody else who submits them um, from our boards and commissions. I I just want to
ask the councilman um Councilman Long about asking the fire company, you know, I mean, I would really like to see an article about candle safety because the two fires we've had in this burrow this year that was really serious were both started by five candles. So,
I know they put out some social media posts. Thank you. Um, did anybody a little bit they put it in about candle? Oh, you did. Yeah. Oh, it's great with the Halloween light. Right. But you know, Christmas time. That's candle.
Nice. Right. I got a little something. I know you did get a little something. But yeah, something official from the fire department would be really great. Also, can I add one last thing? Sure. Our wonderful clerk has wanted also to also mention there will be a rabies clinic on what date? November.
November 7th. 8 eventually. Saturday. Yeah. It's the 8th. It's the 8th. At 9:00 here. Yes. At 9 until we run out of vaccines or until an hour. 1 hour. 9:00 a.m. 1 hour.
Animals on leashes. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Um. Yeah. Good evening everybody. It's good to see everybody here actually. Um, so I'm not going to give an actual report. There has been something that's been
going on in the burl and with this console that I just want to level set and I want to set the clear the air on all of this and it's just the pan is just being kicked down the road and kicked down the road. So, um I want to
address it and it is just simply as let's address this and let's just move on. I'm sorry. Yeah, sorry. That me better. Okay. So, um I first of
all I never write down anything that I I've just never done that even when I do presentations and things like that. But every once in a while I will do I will write down things when it's something that's really really really important and I don't want to miss a point. So,
um, what I'm going to talk about is what's what's going on with the surrounding the ordinance, um, and all the things that leading up to that has been quite disappointing and disturbing. And I wanted to ensure that I capture the important facts. So, but for the
first time, I'm reading my narrative. I want to start by saying this. Throughout my career, I've been involved in change. In fact, early in my career, and I mean in my 20s, um, which is a long time ago, when I was assigned to to
implement and manage a $75 million project in healthcare, my manager/mentor said to me, "Whether you like it or not, you're about to become a change agape." Well, it turns out um, she was right.
Whether implementing a new process, new systems, introducing innovative technology, a new service, or revamping an entire department, or starting a new vision, all have involved change. Imagine managing people through a
paradigm shift, particularly in the government sector. What I've come to realize is that regardless of organization, sector or industry, change is scary, difficult to grasp and pushes people out of their comfort zone. What I
can also tell you is that is that is what is happening in Flemington is no different than what I've experienced or managed in my lifetime. I like to say the I like to use the old saying, the game is the same, the name is different, and it is true.
On the other hand, change opens pos open opens possibilities, encourages growth and from my experience a change um change a as change progresses people tend to come around and embrace it. In essence, in essence, I get it. I
understand the uncomfortable part of this. But what I can say is I heard the when the hotel was coming on um the hotel is going to ruin the town. Now I hear we need the hotel or there was such
a struggle to approve a the DNC on the first floor. Now I hear people walk on from the DNC walk the street and spend money in the various um businesses. So what I want to address is what I found
to be very disappointing and disheartening. Specifically, the personal attacks, the mockery in committee meetings, false innuendos, stifling communication and trivial gossip. We've been over once and shortly after that and um after the
introduction, I received a request and emails from all the committees um from all to to provide information on all the committee names. This is not only insulting. We have a much higher standard than curtailing to this type of
nonsense and and or what can be se perceived as bullying. Whether it's intentional and meant to be, that's the perception. There are no victims here and there are no enemies. With the attacks on pol with the attacks on political officials officials
happening around the world, this type of sophomoric and rhetoric behavior is uncalled for and dangerous. Just because we live in Flemington does not mean we live in a hub. There are people who struggle with mental illness here like anywhere else.
What's interesting to me is that over the past year and a half, this council has collaborated with the mayor to pass several important or ordinances and resolutions. More importantly, two
members on either side helped champion those votes to get things passed. At no time were politics ever discussed, nor was it a factor. What we've heard you say is that the council has done a great job. Never that there's a mention of
politics and and or it was political. Yet suddenly because we disagree with parts of an ordinance presented in 2024, it's deemed political. And because we met with business the business community
um because we are about inclusion, it was deemed political. You certainly could have done the same thing but chose not to. So you can't say it's political. So what is it? When we agree it's not political but when we don't agree it's
political. You see you're the only one that brings up politics and I must believe that you are also ingrained in pol politics of yesterday and that's what you do is this everything's political. It's not. It is
not. We have never ever ever made anything political in this council. We have never done that. To reiterate a commitment I made to everyone up here, I personally informed you that my job was to protect the mayor and the council.
And that should not be mistaken to agreeing to pass something that is not feeling right to us. It's two different things. um what we have, what we have not and will not let politics be a
crutch to or drive our decision on what is right or wrong. Instead, we concern ourselves with the entire community, not just a handful. We are committed to making the burl a welcoming place for new families, business, and businesses
to thrive, as well as keeping our current community tight. Someone approached me and offered that we need to get rid of the Democratic and Republic titles in this town because they just make division. Um,
and why can't we do it like other towns do? Didn't bother to answer question, but I thought it was very interesting question. I would also be remiss if I don't do some level setting. I cannot think of a single person, single member
on this council who advocates for large apartment complexes. No one wants large apartment complexes. On the other hand, we do need housing and we need and need diversity in housing for this town to survive. If you don't think that that is
true, I would advise you and Jeremy actually brought had this at his lysium, but I lived by Akran Ohio and I know how desolate it went from here when there was the tires and things like that to here and it took years. People were
moving out by the droves. It's the same thing in Greenville. It's the same thing in Cleveland. It was the same thing in parts of DC. It was the same thing in parts of Virginia. And when you go to those places now, they've managed to do a really good job of keeping their history
while bringing in new stuff. They've done both the same. And that's the balance. It's not either or, it's both. Lastly, um hold on. Um the other thing is is that we agree with
90% of what was proposed um in the in the past ordinance. However, because of the 10% we don't agree with, all of the sudden we have daggers and we're the bad people. That just should not be. Lastly, what is also disappointing is telling people on the
planning board that it is the best planning board since 2006. Well, I'm not sure if you realize it or not, but that's a smack in the face to anyone who served on the planning board since 2006. To be clear, anyone who volunteers in
any way, shape, or form are the best. We do not rank our volunteers. Instead, we appreciate them and thank them for their dedication and service regardless of whether or not we agree, whether they agree with it or not. At the end of the day,
their political affiliation is your luggage to car, not ours. Because we don't care. One thing we have in common is that we know how to forgive, forget and move forward. Ultimately, it is up
to this this point in time whether we are going to move forward as a team and the ball is in your court to do that. I thank you. Thank you. I assume you were addressing me because I was addressing everybody. I was addressing you. I was excuse me. You're
asking me and I'm telling you. And the point of it is is obviously addressing several things that have happened. So whether that's you, the planning board, fellow council members, I'm addressing everybody. I also assume you're only speaking for yourself because you cannot say definitively that everybody on this
council feels the same way you do about not having high density apartments because at least one council member on this council has expressed the desire to put up much more high density housing. So I'm going to move on to because I jumped over Councilman Long by accident. I'm sorry. Okay, come on.
Hi, good evening, folks. Uh, just a few items. So, the Office of Emergency Management is uh excited to welcome five new burough residents to the community emergency response team, also known as St. Cert, uh, a resolution will be presented later in the evening, but
Sergeant McN over here, uh, wherever he there is, he wanted everybody to, uh, know that, uh, he's very grateful to the mayor and council for the ongoing support of the SUR program. uh what began as a small group of three residents following Hurricane Ida has now grown as a team of 12 dedicated
volunteers over the past few years they've uh they have stepped up to support the burough during storm emergencies townwide events and community safety outreach in addition members have assisted neighboring municipalities including Holland Township Ron Township Lambertville and Lebanon burough as well as the county
and at the 4 fairgrounds and deer path park their commitment extends beyond Flemington answering the call for both our residents and our regional partners. Also reminder, the harvest festival is scheduled for this Saturday, October 4th. Main Street will be closed from 7:00 a.m. to 9:00 p.m. between Mine
Street and Caper Street with restricted access to Bloomfield and Chourist or Place. Residents and businesses with access concerns should contact the Burough uh Police Department at 908-782-3434 prior to the event uh to discuss accommodations. As mentioned by the
mayor, um there is a need for two officers and I will certainly be reporting back to the council on any developments there. And if any council member has a specific question uh that you want me to ask, please send that to me via email and I will make sure that
that is that is stated. Um couple things. Uh fire and squad. The only news I have for that is just on Monday, September 22nd, I accompanied the fire marshall and representatives from our police, fire, and rescue squad for a walkthrough of the courthouse
square project. Uh the emergency services just get a lay of the land as this as this project is unfolding. Fire marshall has to see if things are in accordance. Um so that's always an interesting thing. Uh as that progresses towards completion.
uh lysm. We had another successful lysm lecture uh past Thursday. Some exciting visuals and details about that courthouse square project I mentioned and Liberty Village were shared. Audience really seem to enjoy learning a lot more about the aspects of those two projects. Uh the next LYSM society
gathering will be taking place on Wednesday, October 15th. That's going to be at the Hunter County Chamber of Commerce. The lecture is entitled the role of the arts in supporting creative civic participation. and that's going to be presented by the president of Art
Venture, uh, Prem Kumar. And finally, uh, I am looking forward to some constructive discussions, questions, commentary, uh, on agenda item 17. I've been giving this ordinance a lot of thought and I'm curious as to what the path forward looks like. I wanted to
share that I do have some concerns about conflict and tension existing between council and planning board um and between any entity and and the council in this town. However, my concern is somewhat tempered as I see that tension
as essential to a healthy planning process. It's not necessarily bad for the town, but rather a system of checks and balances designed to ensure that decisions are well examined in order to ensure uh suitability and soundness. I will have a bit more to say later, but
most importantly, I would like to listen and that's Thank you. All right, we're up to public comments. If you are here for the ordinance, um, please hold your comments until the ordinance is heard because otherwise your comments won't be part of that
record. So, if you're here for anything else, please come up to the mic. I need your name. Yes. And your address for the record. I'm looking for a residential address where you live. Um, so you can come up now. We got one
spokesperson. How are you? Good. How are you? Come on up. You need to sit at the microphone. You can say it. So I need your name for the record. Spell your last name, please. I know who it is.
My name is Rosas. I live in here. I'm citizen. And your address, please. 19 Grand Avenue. I come in like with my friend because like I think three four months to go. I come and I make a complaint about the
illegal taxes because right now it's only for illegal companies in Flemington and there's more than 20 illegal taxes and I come in because nobody do nothing and I explain to the customer that's not right because one accident can happen any moment they don't have insurance for
customer but they don't understand the thing because they pay maybe one or two dollars cheaper the regular tax they think they save money but you know one accident is a lot of money So I coming with my friend because I needed help. I run the tax inflator for 17 years and
they happen all the time. But right now I think I'm sorry but I think in the governor in New Jersey they destroy the business in New Jersey because the guys right now the legal people they give you the option for have a regular license
and they thinking they have a papers and they're doing everything illegal. And believe me, I live for 22 years. So I know that the story about Flemington coming bigger and bigger, you know. So right now the guys they sell the food and make a taxi, make roofing,
construction path, and they don't pay taxes. So I think that's not right. I'm sorry for my English. I speak a little, you know, because I want to explain. So please help. So this is So when you were here last, we had a
long conversation with your chief of police about what the issues were and it got back to the courts and the prosecutor um having trouble prosecuting and proving that these taxis were illegal because I guess the taxi drivers
tell their passengers to just say their friends being transported when they get pulled over. So, um, and part of the problem is you also indicated that many of these drivers are from Raron Township. So, I spoke to the mayor of Raron Township about it and, um, we have
the same prosecutor in the same court. So, um, which is actually a member of our attorney's firm and you know, they were supposed to have a conversation about what to do. They have licenses in I don't know if they actually give them out, but you know, there's an
acknowledgement that this is a real problem. like, you know, if passengers get into these cars and nobody's willing to say, you know, I wasn't just getting a ride, you know, and I I mean, Chris, do you want to address this at all, please?
Well, it's a lensure issue because it's enforceable at the municipal court level. Say that again. It's a lensure issue, as you say, mayor. It's enforceable at the municipal court level upon factual basis. is enforcable. But the problem is is that when they pull like the police have trouble
getting anybody to say, "Yeah, I'm driving with this guy and paying him." Right? So unless they're expressing they're in a car paying somebody to take them somewhere and they're not just friends, the police can't give a ticket.
So problems remain an issue at every level. So Chris, let me ask you a question. If a if a taxi driver is stopped, if one of these people are stopped, can they ask for their taxi the proof of the taxi license? Can the police ask for that? Yes. So, if they're not asking for that,
because that's one way to get a to to try to help the problem, right? Is that if one of these drivers have stopped, they think they see a taxi or a peak in, they could stop and ask for a license just on random checks. Well, I give them a sticker to put on their window.
Right. So my point of it is is if that's not there then then that is a right licenses as well also have but do they have a sticker? They don't have a sticker that says family and birth. No. Yeah.
So so but the point of do they get but they do give a license or they give something that indicates that that it's a legal vehicle transporting people. Right. So, it seems to me, I mean, this just my humble opinion, but it would seem to me that that's one of the ways
that we can help them out is by trying to enforce that that we are making sure that that decal sticks or if they're transporting people that we do some random stops and show their show their license. Yes, that that would be a way to then they have a too can can
uh taxi drivers be pulled over just if they don't have a sticker? Uh, so that's the proof problem that you're talking about. So that's why I said that's how would you car that's what I was this is the problem that the cars don't
say taxi they're taking passengers and taking money and then if they do get pulled over for running one of our many stop signs or any other issue um people don't admit that they're paying anybody as I say as with so many municipal court and lensure vi lensure violations you
have to create that link right there any number of ones I can give you and any number of ones I can give you where that's a problem this one is particularly a problem. So, but Tony, your way of doing it, what you said is that if they get pulled over, they have to show their their license. There you go. Yeah, they should. That's a great way to do that. But there will still be.
No, I'm I'm sure. But I mean, at least we can chip away at it. Yep. Agreed. But but if the driver says, "Oh, no, this is my sister." And then the woman says, "Yes, he's my brother." Everyone's going to lie in enforcement. That's true of any, as I keep saying, right? That's true of any kind of municipal court level thing, right?
you're not going to have the best. You don't have the resource of the prosecutor's office that you're, you know, back in the hall, right? Anyone can lie perjury theoretically or volunteer township about this, you know, and the mayor did the prosecutor and he was
going to talk to the township committee and see what they could do about it and I haven't heard back from him. So, Marci, I'm sorry. A few years to few years to go Flemington has another company they called Latinos taxi. I
remember that guy in that in that time I don't know where he do the guy but I remember the legal taxes assigned one paper I don't know he find a lawyer or something but I believe me two three weeks the the cops they didn't pull over
to the only legal taxes. So as I comment right now I want to know what do you want to do because believe me these guys and me I know what who is the the legal tax when you want to you put somebody else coming with me the taxi all day and not
sure when the guy pick up people from Georgia from the hospital for Walmart and when you see the same people not have a letter have a license this taxi cup you know the guy doing something bad because I know the cops they need to prove they want to catch one of the
customer paid but they sorry for my language they not stupid they talking give me the money say to the car but these guys send me I know who is the illegal tax so the last time when I come I did the job for the office this guy
sent me car the paper I showed more than 20 license plates you believe me when I make the statement let's play me you guys said the true all the time and I told you the truth Let me circle back with rare townships mayor
and I'll circle back with the chief regarding this and see what we can what we can do. I gave you gave us that paper and we gave it to the chief license. I don't want some nothing bad to the illegal taxes but you guys before they send the paper by the the license plates
and explain you want to make illegal taxing coming and I help you you know the whole process but they don't want to pay and I'm coming right now because when I come I told you the truth long long time to I want to help my community because I'm from Mexico I'm Spanish and you know my community need help sometime
need pick out the groceries sometime have appointment with the doctors the link service But it's not really good service because you need to wait 1 hour pick it up from Generville to the hospital. Sometimes the people have one appointment in two minutes. So taxi more
fast. But right now after the Donald Trump coming for president the insurance is double and everything is more expensive. And I explain to my cost so I can compete to this these illegal people because they don't pay the insurance. I pay my friend pay
and I explain to my custom you got to be careful because one accident can happen at any moment and this guy not having insurance for the taxi. So I know a lot of officer because I told you I live for 22 years in Fington. and Louis while Louis go to high school you know the
officer and I talked to my friends and I said Louis do you remember before was too small now they coming bigger and bigger so everything is different right now but right now it's impossible because this container like that I believe I quick no more tax I think my
friends too the insurance is too high $10,000 for insurance we pay more than just just I know that you're going with with our chief of police and our have a a safety issue. There's a safety
issue here too where I as I was single for 40 uh 39 years. So um I would have been hesitant to get into a taxi cab that was not unlicensed and like just just overall. So I guess what
I'm saying is I hear you and then I'm always the person who sits up here and says yeah I'm sorry when I come in my first time I'm sorry if not many SP right now when I come into the Flemington B they not me because my English not very well and they don't see so many spines like
right now so I'm the lady the hell yes Mr. the owner for two tables because I explain my situation. Maybe you know guys a long time ago I explain my situation and she coming with me and that's why I
start the person I have in my taxi. So I know the story you know but this time and that's what happened right now but please I needed help because this is very hard right now. The insurance they wanted insurance for two years 1 million
and a half. Wow. Then you don't have insurance cover 1 million. That's the state's requirement. Yes. It's only for New York. The things like these guys charge like $5 for the ride. So we charge $10. So I
you know that's like I need your name and address for the Oh, sure. Yeah. I got here. Go ahead. My name is Miguel Espinosa. My address is C5 Hunter Hills, Fington, New Jersey 082. So yeah, that's the thing. like these guys is like doing five years at illegal
taxes and we do like 10 years. So absolutely they pay like $100 a month and we pay like thousand a month. So of course the people got to go with them because they pay like half you know we go to New York we charge like $300
uh they're char like 150. So it's a lot of difference you know. So of course they take business away. So that reminds me a lot of what happened in New York for for years and years with delivery taxes and regular tax feeds and
then um other things came through and I know that New York cracked down on it really big on delivery taxes. It sounds like you're going through the same type of thing and so we you know we need to figure out a solution. We need to figure
out a solution. So, one is the one that Chris has um our attorney has agreed with that that's kind of what we need to and Jeremy maybe that's the discussion that you can have with with um the chief um and as McN is standing here that that could be something that could be weighed
on um and I don't think it's going to be solved overnight. I think you got a crawl, walk, run. Right now that we we understand it. So nobody up here doesn't understand it. Right now what we have to do is start giving one solution and then have a backup plan in case that doesn't
happen. I can give that solution. Now we have to think of a backup plan if that doesn't work. So give us some time on that. One quick question. Are are you very clear as to um car service versus illegal taxis in that doc those
documents? For example, traveling to Philadelphia airport, I always get a car service to takes down there and come back. There's been there's like those are not included in the data set. Correct. Forest. Okay. Okay. Good. Okay. because so I'm
gonna circle back with the channel and try to find find a way to help you because we all agree with you totally but it's about proof about the proof. Yeah. Things like because these guys like they take a business away, you know, like absolutely
we stay at home all day. We make like $50 in a day and they're make like $200 a day. That's not make sense, you know, because we pay the insurance. We had to renew soon. We had to renew the license again. All the process we got to go to Trenton. We got to go to do
a fingerprints and you know we have a family so we got Yeah. I mean we can work together if we like the guys say like we got to go to court and approve it to the guys who is the illegal charge. We can go and do you know we can work together.
Okay. Like we can take a pictures we can get make a videos whatever they're needed we can do. you know we can work together. The example I go sometime to Planefield a couple of weeks ago there is the the police come and say like you work here I
said no I was with my wife buy some groceries in store and there's a lady she said like can I have your license I gave my license she she want to give me a ticket I said like why you want to give my ticket she think I pick her up somebody over there but I said like I was thinking my wife and my kids so I
told there's my she don't believe it's my wife and uh She go and ask my wife and she take her license and she want to give my ticket. She want to take my car away because she think I was working there and North Planefield and ST Planefield came pick it up like North
Pl. The people in S Plfield interesting you know how do they do that and they work together like that. How do they do that Chris? How does a municipality restrict restrict that another municipality can't pick up? I don't think that would be legal.
But they're doing it. They're doing it. Yeah. I mean, in this business, unfortunately, so much is legal until it's challenged. I would suggest a challenge. It's true. Place to get one's mind where they want to be, but one must respect the boundaries of both.
Okay. All right. Thank you guys. All right. Together, you know, you have guys Hi, I'm Paris Man. I live at 15 M Avenue. Um, yeah. So, I am here I I'm not even
sure it's the correct forum, but I'm here for a clarification regarding the Flemington Free Public Library in director. I think there's been some um information stated here that's contradictory to the board meeting
minutes um where Heidi Hesh has been clearly denoted as the interimm director and then I think I found the meeting minutes from August here but stated she's not. So you address Yeah. So basically council
has no authority over the Okay. and that I think maybe like the the operations and the logistics um are not clear and it's and I am going to be getting involved into in the board because I I I don't think it's clear to
the community either um and how the uh the library operates and the the minutes that are there are not very detailed. So it's so the state of New Jersey has statute on libraries on public libraries. So their guidance comes
directly. They have they hire their own personnel. They hire their own attorney. Okay. So that's why I tax base and they and they are guaranteed under state law that they get their own taxes from the public and then they can ask us for additional money and it's up to the governing body to give it to them or
not. Okay. So they are their own governing body and under the law the mayor has a seat or can designate. Okay. So councilwoman Fisaro is my designate. Great. because I think it was in the minutes it was you that stated that she
Heidi Hesh was not the acting versus interim. Okay. And I actually think I had a discussion with Jane about that a few weeks ago. I it's a slight nuance but yes she is the interim director. She is not the acting director. We continue to look for a
replacement director. Okay. even though she's full-time and um this is a personel matter so another government and that and really I just needed clarification from what the responsibility is for from the council
versus the board and then and then very little okay yeah and just so it's noted um because I just for the council and for anyone who is here I from a community perspective uh I would like to say that when Heidi has been in that role. I have
seen it the vibrance at the library. So many people are coming. The programs are wonderful. There's I think the issue has been a poor transition from the previous director. And that is what the issue is. And it's not the personnel. And we should be open-minded and not be um
constrained by master's degrees and titles. We should be open to experience and what is best for the community. people actually said that the library director must by law hold a masters in library. Okay. I I don't know the law. I'm just saying from a community perspective, I
think she's done a wonderful job. She's lovely, but again Yeah. And I don't think that you know Flemington who is you know whether the law is there or not. I think there's workarounds and but again it's not just and that is all I needed to know. Um,
but I did want it because there have been so many places where it's been stated incorrectly and and believe me. Okay. You you know what I'm talking about, right? So, I I do want to get involved. I'm going
to make it um my priority to get to a meeting, but you're not final suggestion. the president of our library board is in the audience this evening and maybe she and I can circle back around. Okay. Um and maybe it's open for public
discussion, Jane, or um No, not right now. Not right now. No, not not right now. And it doesn't belong here. Okay. And it's not a personality like I'm not asking you to make a hiring decision. I'm just making a public statement about how I feel that the
library has blossomed with um Heidi in that role. No, we appreciate that. She's very appreciative. Anybody else for the public on anything? Yes. I just wanted to ask Well, I need your name and address for the record, Lois. So, Steuart, I will not give you my
house number because I'm a single person and I don't want people to know who might come to harm me. You tell me your street in reality. Your street. You know my street. Okay. Uh, I want to know how many police you talked about getting two more police.
So, how many police do we have in this? So, total what was the question? How many of these officers do we have right now in the burrow? Do you know we're short so many? Hold on. 15 or 16. Yeah, we're down to
three. You had 19. We're down to four 14 with the vacancies. Well, it counts to two in themies. We have 16. But how many are we supposed to have? Let's get the microphone. We can't hear you. Yeah, you got to have the microphone.
I asked how many supposed to have. You don't need the mic. Oh, you everybody else. Yeah, I'm old. I'm 91 and I can't get up and down so easy. So, you're just going to
have to be tolerant. I want to know how many police this burrow is supposed to have. Okay. So, there's no law that says how many any municipality is supposed to have. the police departments and their
lobbying groups always want to have more and governing bodies always want to have the number that works right so there is there is no right number but I will tell you we've had as many as 19 in this town and we're now down to 16 or the last
time I asked this question it was 13 and I just wonder what horrible thing has happened in our town Brian Okay, I think you're pulling it to and I don't expect it. I don't expect an answer, but I do I want and I like all the police except
for one man. Let me just let me just say regardless of regardless of how much crime or domestic problems or anything else the child is the grown too with increase in population and an increase in people
using our town to commute. Regardless of any of that if we run short then we need to put on cops on overtime. And there's a very fine balance about finding the right number of police to reduce the amount of overtime to save
tax dollars. That's where we are right now. We are paying a tremendous amount of money in overtime. So, we need more cops regardless of anything else so that we can have the right compliment in this town to patrol and to do traffic control and everything else that they do so that
we don't have a lot of overtime. So, we were under we had great overtime numbers last year. They are terrible this situation because they are down cops. So for me and I know I know that this commissioner feels the same way. We got to find that balance again so that they
can do their job without having to have to pay one and a half two times over. Well, I'm glad to know you're watching my tax stop. You better believe it. The other thing I wanted to ask is what's going on with our K9 program.
There are three things on the consent agenda about the dog and so I want to know what's happening with our dogs. Well, our our wonderful dogs uh unfortunately we're not going to have a K9 unit. Oh, that's what that's
and they're going to one is going to be living with an offic who's leaving the department. Um, and Elsa is a younger German Shepherd who's now going to be up in Union, uh, New Jersey and joining a
pretty good situation there because she's trained and got a long life ahead. And that's pretty much these are not dogs that like this anybody can take because the handler has to learn Dutch. I just w I just wondered why we were getting rid of our K9. Because the
officer who Dutch and is the dog, the dog handler is going to another police department and they don't want the dog. Go find a great home. She's beautiful. Anybody else in the public? Yes. Just come up, please.
I need your name and address for the record. Heather. Hello. All right. Hello. My name is Heather Lee Scully and I live in Hillsboro and I have a business on Main Street. Do I need to give you my address in Hillsboro?
I would like you to. All right. 117 Bluebird Drive, Unit 2D. No. So, I'll be up here twice. So, this is unrelated to the ordinance. So, as a baby business owner, as I call myself, um kind of piggybacking on um uh like
questions about uh the police and all of that. So, um I just wanted to see what the appropriate way of um kind of protecting my business and also Main Street businesses. I don't know if this is an issue on Stangle, but we do have a
few people um in town that do have severe mental health issues and although I'm very sympathetic to that issue, um there has been uh recent run-ins um with a particular person who is squatting in
offices. She's been in my building um barricading people from entering their own offices. I know that she's had a very long history of mental illness and kind of squatting um and saying that she owns properties. She also has a history
of se uh stealing signage um off people's buildings. Um, and so I wanted to see if this was an appropriate place to ask um, how I protect myself and my business and also advocate for other businesses um, for run-ins with um,
types of people like this. I don't want to be the boy or the girl that cries both, but I have called the police a few times um regarding certain individuals um with either, you know, I I see this particular individual going across the
street and trying to get into the office buildings and she's been squatting and um I had a she was trying to steal my bike um that I have outside of my store. So, I'm just trying to see how I protect myself that for you, right? um they did come
out. I don't know the police report. I'm gonna put um put Sergeant Pelli on the spot. No, in reference to the incident she's referencing, that individual was arrested. She was arrested multiple times last week for similar offenses, but due to the um obviously the the way
our criminal justice system is set up, she was cited, you know, arrested, cited, and and released there. So, but uh so but this individual was charged. Patrol does she come by in a particular time? Is it like at night? It's it's all hours. Um you know, I see
her busy at night cuz sometimes I'm at my store um pretty late cuz I've been working on a lot of projects there. So, I'm not, you know, for me, I'm just so new at this. And um when I have a neighboring business owner right above me and she's barricading and she was
very scared. But now you hear multiple incidences. Um it's just a little discouraging because I want to make sure we're all protected and we're not getting our stuff stolen and all that. Well, let me just say this. So some of those same things existed at Stangle as well. Okay.
Right. So So they exist kind of what the point of it is is that one of the things that that I was really focused on last year and I'm not commissioner this year. I stepped down but was community policing. And it becomes even more important and more important and more
important as we grow as a town, right? Because that means that new people are coming in. And mental illness is one of those things that is, you know, unfortunately it's not controllable, but you you the person's not controllable, but you can give the access to it to
buildings and things like that can be controlled if we know who the person is and if there is patrol going down and if the if police are out. Now, I understand that we're short in terms of staffing right now. So, you got to give us a chance to to build it back up, but um
we've got to get back because I know last year I was just razor focused on it and you got to get out. You got to get into those stores. You've got to let people know that you're here. You've got to walk down the street. So, we we're going to get I don't know where I can't speak right now because I'm again I'm
not commissioner this year, but um that's the ideal. So to answer your question is that no one's taken their their eye off of that. What we need to do is get back to that once we get this overtime under control and we get all these new offers.
And is it an appropriate place to ask like am I allowed to ban certain people from the store or you want your business? You you can refuse service to anybody in New Jersey. Oh, sorry. We're sharing a mic here. If you're service to anyone in New Jersey
for any business, even if you've already halfway and I will tell you that I have encountered just as a private citizen at least one gentleman several times and I I there's again arrested picked up and I was told they're going to let him go
and to protect oursel as business owners as well. Should we just be calling the cops or is there any other resources that I can call? Oh, I have a lot of cameras. Okay. Yes, Paul, please just call. I just want to tax the alarm real quick. I'm the police commissioner, Skully. We'll contact the chief and he can give
you assistance as far as what you can do, what you can't do, and that's it. Okay. Yeah. Just I know that my neighboring um business owner, she was scared for her life. And I don't know if that's been an issue in the previous years or
incidences, but that's a little concerning. Um cuz you know chief can even close both of you you know and help you give you some guidance going. Yeah do it both. Perfect. Thank you so much.
Anybody else something on the go. Hello Sharon Ryder on Elwood Avenue New Jersey. Um I have acknowledged and um appreciate all the stop signs that are in the burrow now on park.
Well, we need them on Elwood because what's happened is all the traffic that's avoiding the stop signs that are existing are all the traffic's being increased and thrown into Lwood Avenue and they're speeding on our street and
flying through because they know there's no stop signs on Elwood. And I would like to request either stop signs on Lwood equal to what's on Broad and Park and Mine Street or speed bumps. The parking committee actually uh you don't want speed bumps because they make
a lot of noise. So nobody hates them because they ruin clouds. So um we are looking at putting a speed table like a messa down on Mine Street when we redo that road down there. Slow traffic down. It's a much larger. It
doesn't make that bump goes up. People store down. It goes across and it comes down. But we just had our traffic engineer look at Lwood. We had to look at Lwood and Emory and Lwood and Pennsylvania and he did not feel and our
chief concurred they it was warranted at this time. People are rolling through stop signs a bit, but he he sat there. He sat there during school. He sat there before school. Our chief did as well. Um he has added more police in the morning
um regarding the speeding but you know the problem is not Elwood Avenue on Emory. It's people coming from Route 31 rolling through the Emory sign and not coming to a full stop tomorrow.
Uh that's that that area. Broad Street uh at Bloomfield Avenue and I believe Pennsylvania Avenue all gonna have their stops ahead refreshed tomorrow, literally tomorrow. Um they'll
be painted. It'll all be painted. William Street is going to be done as well. So So the the stop heads are very very faded and I think one of those areas doesn't even have I noticed there's a stop sign coming up. So they're all getting like I think Daniel Swall Street doesn't. So, they're all getting refreshed or painted to make it
brighter. And there has been increased police on Elwood pulling over speeders. Um, they picked up a woman who worked at Central a couple of weeks ago doing 52 miles an hour on Elwood who rolled through the stop sign uh at
Pennsylvania. So, you know, so we know what's happening, right? Well, well, I'm on the block between New York and Pennsylvania Avenue and I'm seeing them coming down New York Avenue turning on Elwood and flying through. So, is that happening at night or is that happening? A lot at night.
Because I hear you because when you said school it that may not be the time is because it's the same thing happens on Broad Street whether they have stop signs there or not. I'm just so I hear your pain. I really do. I hear you. I hear the phone.
So, so the point of it is is that if he did the study, did he do the study at night because that seems to be where the problem is. And he didn't study that intersection. It was Emory and it was Pennsylvania, right? And I've been there 21 years and I've always been very happy that it's been such a quiet street one block off
the 31. It is not a quiet street. Okay. We actually talked about that at the at the parking committee meeting last week, so we can take another look at it. Anybody else? Come on. Okay. I had no intention of speaking.
Colleen Rosetti, 36 Pennsylvania Avenue on the corner of Pennsylvania and Elwood. Thank you. And we call it the 10 Central Speedway at 7:00 in the morning coming down Pennsylvania Avenue making a left
towards Elway. It's an S. You go that way, then you make a right on the Highland Avenue. So, it's like an S. Yeah. And we have an immense amount of young children now in the neighborhood
riding their scooters, their bikes, and uh bus stops. And it's amazing how fast people take that. And we've talked in the neighborhood about having a four-way stop at Elwood in Pennsylvania just
because of that, the bus stops and the kids. And um I'm I'm waiting I'm I'm praying I never have to witness a child on on the roadway. So like I said, our chief went out, our traffic engineer went out and at that that exact
intersection um about making a four-way and they just didn't see the traffic. It it is a very out again. And we have a I know there's a concern about the the circle at Highland Avenue, how
people don't go putting a request to the state to make that into a stop sign. Um you know where the people come around Highland to go to the lake. I'm just a lot of kids. Our traffic engineer noted a lot of problems with
the circle right there on Highland. I got it. Not signed properly. It's not marked properly. It's not fitted properly. And that's under state jurisdictions. Okay. Because of how close it is to the highway. So, he's going to draft a letter to the state asking them to get it fixed
correctly, including a stop sign on considered the yield. We'll send them back out and take a look again early in the morning on Pency. But because because Elwood's got the stop Okay. Yep. But people coming down Pennsylvania,
go left on. Yeah. I don't have to set my alarm because I can hear the spinning real wheels of young drivers as they squeal around. And I've seen accidents there often. What time? Like 7 o'clock in the morning.
So that's what the city was. Yeah, it really is. We've been in the neighborhood talking about asking for a four-way stop there because again, we have a mess of new little kids. Rosetti, it's wonderful. I actually spoke to your neighbor and
they were the ones that brought that issue to the attention and I brought it to the attention of the parking committee. So, another look at that. Yeah. I don't want to have to pick up any little kids. Thank you. Okay. Anybody else?
Okay. No. Anybody online, Carla? Did I? All right. Back on the agenda. Um, approval of minutes, 2025. Second. Second.
Okay. All in favor? All right. We have one proclamation for the month of October 2025 pregnancy infant loss awareness month. Uh trust is going to greet that please. Okay.
Proclaiming the month of October 2025 as pregnancy and infant loss awareness month. Whereas pregnancy and infant loss are such a common occurrence, one that is usually not recognized. And whereas many of the Burough Flemington Hunter County state of New Jersey parents and
families have suffered a miscarriage, a stillburn or the death of an infant during delivery or shortly after birth. And whereas this devastating tragedy often occurs suddenly without warning as a result of miscarriage, still birth,
pre-term birth, sudden infant death syndrome, accident or other causes or complications. And whereas the burough of Flemington Hunter County, state of New Jersey wishes to acknowledge the profound grief experienced by families who suffer the
death death of a baby. And whereas the burough Flemington Hun County, state of New Jersey wishes to acknowledge the existence of the babies and infants that died far too early. And whereas even the shortest lives are still valuable and the grief of those who mourn the loss of
these lives should not be trivialized. And whereas the 15th day of October is recognized in parts of the United States and in many other jurisdictions around the world as a day of remembrance and awareness of pregnancy and infant loss. And whereas the tragedy of pregnancy and
infant loss, which exacts a terrible emotional toll may be preventable in some instances. And whereas increased awareness of the causes and impacts on pregnancy and infant loss may lead to greater understanding, support, and resources in communities across the
burough of Flemington, Hunter County, state of New Jersey, and where's a month of remembrance honors the lives of children taken far too soon and supports grieving parents, grandparents, siblings, and other family members whose lives are forever altered by the heartbreak of losing a child. And
whereas those parents and families require support and understanding during their time of grief. And whereas promoting awareness of the challenges faced by those parents and families as a positive mean means of establishing support and understanding.
Whereas recognizing pregnancy and infant loss awareness remembrance month would enable the people of the burrow of Flemington Hunington County state of New Jersey to consider how as individuals and communities they can meet the needs of berieved mothers, fathers and family
members and work to prevent the causes of these deaths. Now therefore, the merit council do hereby proclaim October as pregnancy and infant loss awareness month in the burrow of Clinton, Hunteran County, state of New Jersey, and encourage parents, caregivers, and all
residents become educated in opportunities to prevent pregnancy and infant loss and support bereie families when prevention is not possible. Thank you. Um, consent agenda. All right. Incentive resolution 2025142.
Resolution approving a refund due to 100% disable veterary exemption on block 33 uh 12. Resolution 2025 143. Resolution approving a refund due to 100% stable veteran exemption on lot 14 lot 10. Resolution 2025-144. Resolution approving refunds with
redemption of sales tax certificate on block 13. Resolution 2025 145. Resolution approving a refund for an and erroneous payment made on block 36 lot 28. Resolution 26146 chapter 159 recycling tunge grant. Resolution
2025147 chapter 159 and communities grant. Resolution 2025 148 chapter 159 alcohol education rehabilitation reinforcement grant. Resolution 2025149 resolution authorizing street pleasure for the third annual harvest festival on October 4, 2025 with the rain date of
October 18, 2025. Resolution 2025150, resolution authorizing the retirement of Kan Da and transfer all responsibilities to patrol as a civilian companion. Resolution 20251, resolution authorizing the donation of K9 Ela to the Union County Sheriff's
Department. Resolution 20252, resolution authorizing the donation of remaining K9 veterinarian hospital. Resolution 20253, resolution approving a refund for the redemption of sale tax sale on block 2, lot 43. Resolution 2025 154 resolution appointing new members to
the search team. Resolution 2025 resolution authorizing a contract with RNS landscape to obey public safety hazards at 146 Main Street block 38 block 2 and authorizing the tax colleges to approve these resolutions. Go ahead. Sorry.
Great role, please. Councilman Harris, yes. Council, yes. Councilman, Councilwoman Pora, yes. Lever, yes. Council Vice President Law, yes. Council President, yes. Thank you. Uh, we have two ordinances to introduce
tonight. Ordinance 2025-23, ordinance chapter 4, licensing of the municipal code of the bureau of publishing to create a new section 4-18 entitled jumpsters. Uh this ordinance will allow uh the police department to issue uh and
our and our construction office to issue h our construction office and our clerk to issue permits that will be a no no additional charge and our police department to actually um limit the
amount of time they can be on the street with one extension. So people would love to have a dumpster for a month on this public street not more than two months in your own driveway. Long as you want. Uh could I have a motion introduce? Angelare will move.
There second. Uh any discussion? I'm sorry. Uh roll call, please. Yes. Helenhart. Yes. Councilwoman Sara. Yes. Council Levit. Yes. Council Vice President Long W. Yes. And Council President Parker. Yes. Uh public hearing scheduled for
what's our first meeting in October? 14th. Okay. Public hearing on 14th of October. Thank you. Uh our 2025-2 ordinance then chapter 34 zoning of the clinical code provides for compliance certain traffic regulations. Um can I
have a motion introduce? Second. Second. Uh roll call please. Yes. Yes. Councilwoman yes. Yes. Council vice president. Yes. And council president.
Yes. Thank you. Public hearing scheduled for October 14th. Okay. to the public hearing on ordinance 2025-21 and ordinance amendment chapter 12 land development definitions of the bureau
code chapter 16 design performance standards of the burough code and chapter 26 zoning of the burough code. Okay. Have a motion to open this public hearing to the public. There a second. All in favor? I. This public hearing is now open to the
public. Members of the public wishing to speak online, please raise your hand. to the audience. Uh please come up one at a time. I need your name and your address, the residential address. If you want to say what property you own in Flintington as well, that's fine. Um
do you want Dennis to go first? Can you raise his hand? Dennis can go. I don't care. Dennis um shows online. All right. So, I need your name and address. That way people can get in the rails. No, I think we're capacity.
Yeah. Well, maybe what we should say is that when when if someone is finished with Hi, can you hear me? Yeah. Hold on, Dennis. I'll do Dennis first and then somebody else. Then the other one for me. Yeah. So everybody can get in.
Okay. Dennis. Okay. Good evening. I am Dennis Shob, a resident of Flemington at 194 Main Street, and I would like to comment about potential downtown business zoning changes from a resident's perspective. First, my wife Maria and I would like to
thank the mayor and burough council for all they do for Flemington Burough. I would also like to say that I've watched every Burough Council meeting video since we moved into Flemington Burough from Raritan Township in 2021. Regarding the Burough Council's proposed
downtown business zoning changes that directly impact historic Main Street, it has been clear that landlords had plenty of input with the Burough Council and significant influence on the proposed ordinance. As a resident of Flemington,
who now pays over $30,000 a year in property taxes, which I believe is probably a lot more than many landlords. I asked the council where was the open forum inviting residents to provide their view on what they want for
downtown. Why didn't that happen before developing and introducing the proposed ordinance? With Courthouse Square opening soon, we believe many residents don't want many more want more new apartments on Main Street. In addition,
we believe many residents are not interested in having valuable parking spaces behind existing Main Street buildings taken away to allow landlords to expand buildings over those parking
spaces. I also saw multiple council meetings where the parking committee was recommending permit parking for Flemington residents to ensure they don't have parking problems, especially since Courthouse Square is not providing free parking for their apartments, which
will certainly cause a parking problem. Why are we waiting for a problem that is inevitable to happen before proactively addressing the issue in advance of the problem? Regarding the proposed ordinance, in addition to concerns promoting the addition of more
apartments on Main Street and allowing to eliminate existing parking in the rear properties, we are disappointed that the Burough Council is not willing to make a bold statement grandfathering existing office space on the first floor
on Main Street, but not allowing additional offices on the first floor facing Main Street to ensure the burrow sends a clear message to people including entrepreneurs that we want their retail services experiences
businesses and restaurants on Main Street. Many towns have ordinances prohibiting offices on the first floor on their downtown main street including Pennington, Westfield, Maplewood,
Redbank, Morristown, Monontlair, Summit and Princeton. Those towns have made the bold future-looking statement prohibiting offices on the first floor and we feel Flemington should be doing the same. Currently, Main Street has a
lot of vacant space. So, no one can say there is a demand for office space that isn't being met in the burrow. There are plenty of vacant spaces that can be used for offices in Victorian Plaza and the Old Auction, which have plenty of
parking. I sincerely thank you for letting me give my comments as a very concerned resident of Flemington. We love Flemington and I believe we all want a vibrant Main Street at night and on the weekends every weekend which
doesn't exist today. Once again, I asked where was the open forum to ask residents what they want? I asked the burough council to delay voting on the ordinance and hold an open forum for residents to publicly state what they want to help shape what is being
proposed. Thank you for your consideration of this request and thank you for all you do. Thank you. Um, you have a microphone you're passer in the mic. Hold the mic and ice cream. Cheryl Fontaine, 68 Mine Street or
Flemington. And I really just want to say ditto because I agree with everything that Dennis was talking about. I mean, I'm really concerned with more apartments built up on Main Street when we really
want the vibrancy like Somerville, like Lambertville, businesses that um bring in revenue and people. So that's it. Anybody else? Sharon Ryder, Elwood Avenue, Lumington.
Uh, ditto to Dennis. Thank you, Dennis, for the clarity of what you've presented tonight. I too agree with the um retail stores on Main Street. I watched Red Bank die in the 70s and the 80s. that started to come back and come alive and
today it is like a very active vibrant um community and we need that here in Flemington because I watched Flemington die in 2008 when the hotel shut down and it's been dying and now is a time to say no more to apartments. The parking is
going to be horrific if these uh landlords don't supply parking for their residents and we need retail stores to attract others. Thank you, Dennis, for your clarity. Go first.
Good evening. Uh Tony Gushu, owner of Within Spirit, Flemington Ghost Walk, Stangle Moon Market, 37 Stangle Road. Um the resial address, please. Kingwood, New Jersey. Thank you. Um I'd like to first point out that while Mr. Shaw was speaking as a resident, he
is a member of the planning board. Um, as a small business owner and as well as being an FID board member, I am extremely disheartened with this entire project. Not one member of the planning board owns a brick-andmortar retail shop in Fleming to know the struggles of our business community in this fragile
economy. Um, there has been zero dialogue with small business owners on the planning board's behalf to see what small business wants or even basic needs are and what makes sense. Who did do that? The council members who created this ordinance who have each personally
come to me asked for feedback and asked for my other small businesses feelings about the zoning as is and as proposed. According to the 2024 burough budget as the 2025 budget is not on the burough website. Commercial properties make up
about 20% of Arma's 1100 structures in the burrow and these properties contribute over 36% of the tax base. Um, so I'm not really sure why the planning board did feel that it is necessary to consult with those that it does directly affect as well. On top of the fact that
while we do have very high residential property taxes here, if you do not have tenants in these commercial properties, you're not going to be getting that tax base as well. Um, you know, I've heard some people mention here Red Bank and Somerville. I would advise you to see
what the commercial property uh rental prices are in those towns. After watching the planning board meeting from September 9th, there are a number of factors discussed in the recommendations that I take issue with. First is limiting office to the second floor. If you look at the burough's 2022 state act
report, it does not say we should be taking away office space for Main Street. Rather than a healthy mix is the recommendation to create a mix of offerings in a downtown setting. There is also currently a lack of suitable firstf flooror retail on Main Street. My
second issue is with the restriction of popups. Limiting pop-ups to the de DB and DB2 zoning areas creates a number of problems. First, the cost and traffic disruption is substantial to close Main Street. In reality, it is only feasible to close Main Street for our county, Burough, and FID sponsored events.
hosting pop-ups in other business districts like Sangal and Fulper, which are directly adjacent to Main Street because let's be real, this town is not that big. Um, still creates a vibrant downtown area. Events create revenue for small businesses because of the increase in foot traffic. Saying a small business
cannot have a popup because they happen to be mid lease in another business district where they have been successfully implementing them is detrimental to the financial health health of many small businesses and is creating not only a prejudice but a potential liability for the burrow
especially when retail conducive spaces do not exist on Main Street. Most importantly on this point the master plan's sole purpose and focus is bettering all of Flemington not just Main Street. So, how about we not step all over everybody else who helped keep Flemington going when Main Street was
desolate? The recommendations about parking and deliveries holding up traffic during that September 9th meeting were also fallacies. UPX, FedEx, Amazon, and other providers are already delivering to Main Street with no issues. No small business is getting a delivery so large where traffic is being held up for extended periods of time.
And we are not getting a shop right on Main Street where deliveries are taking hours to deliver. If a business has such large-scale delivery needs, they are looking for a space with a loading dock to accommodate said deliveries, which does not exist on Main Street. We are talking about a couple of boxes and a
signature. The bureau can also designate delivery zones where a delivery truck can park and hand truck the deliveries to our businesses. This model exists in many other active main streets as some were namely mentioned by other speakers. Unfortunately, Flemington is not viewed as businessfriendly. We have had issues
ranging from signage to zoning denials because of how an application was written without receiving feedback from those burough officials or courtesy of a conversation. Meanwhile, we have properties falling into the ground and properties with mold issues the potential tenants do not want to inhabit
and are currently not realistically rentable. It is my hope that as we address the future of Flemington, we can have a more cohesive relationship between burough officials, the FID planning board and various commissions, i.e. maybe some business representation on the parking commission. We all want a
better Flemington, but not everyone is on the same page and working together at this point. And until that happens, we are going to keep spending time fighting these battles instead of ushering in the better vision. The zoning as proposed by the 2025 ordinance works because it makes sense at this time and gets us to
the transitional place we are currently at while providing room for needed improvements. The master plan has been adapted over the years and I am sure as we evolve and grow it will adapt again. The difference here is council talked to small businesses about the zoning while the planning board did not and that is
why I and many other business owners are here tonight in full support of the changes whether they are master plan congruent or not. Thank you. Okay. Uh, my name is Nicole Stewart. I am
co-owner of Within Spirit, Flemington Ghost Walk, Stangle Moon Markets at 37 Stangle Road in Flemington. I also live in Kingwood, New Jersey. I have just a couple of points that I want to make today, but I do want to start with an apology about the disruption of all the
business owners here, but these business owners are worried about the disruption to their livelihood. My first point regards the amount of inventory conducive to firstf flooror retail in Flemington. I and Tony, when our lease was up last year, did do a comprehensive
search to find a spot passively on Main Street. We could have found spaces, but some of them would have taken$25 to $30,000 to convert into a retail space. This is a huge problem. Um, existing landlords will not be the
ones to take that responsibility on themselves. They're expecting the business owners and probably most of you here, we don't have that kind of money in this economy. Uh if first floor retail and walkable shopping main street is the goal, which I think it is and would be beautiful
here, then landlords need to be incentivized to be willing to work with retail operations to bring these to Main Street. Again, not everybody can afford this massive uh buildout, especially in a burrow where our residents ranked 23rd
out of 26 mal municipalities in a medium income according to our 222 census. Putting all of the responsibility on the tenant means you're possibly telling your own constituents that they'll never be able to do business in Flemington.
Additionally, I'm a huge proponent of historic preservation. I have been doing fundraising for over 20 years. My nonprofits have raised thousands and thousands of dollars for historic preservation and restoration reservation
in including in Hunton County and Flemington. I will also say that at 39 years of age, I was diagnosed with a major heart condition which made going up and downstairs a problem. So consider your residence when you're talking about
having all service businesses on second floors. At 39 years old, I couldn't even do a flight of stairs because of my condition. You're going to have residents that are going to have that problem. So just keep that in mind. Have cons some consideration. You know
that that the tenants or the landlords aren't going to put in, you know, jazzy scooters that goes go up or elevators. Um, and one last thing that I want to add, and this is with all due respect, there have been comments made by you,
Mayor Carol, about being more concerned about your current residents and your constituents, which is really important. But we do have to also think about the future of Flemington, the future of the residents, the future of the business owners, because I've heard a lot of people talking about who are residents,
they want more business here, but I'm going to tell you in the current climate, we're not going to be here. So, please take all of this into consideration. I hope that the planning board will come back, go back to the slate, talk to some business owners who
actually know the hardships and all of the ins and outs of running a business here. Thank you. Hello again, Heatherly Skellyy, Hillsboro, New Jersey. I own the Groovy Collective on 48 Maine. And here is my
story. So, I'm a new business owner on Main Street and I'm here today to share my personal experience and urge the board to reconsider certain zoning restrictions. I believe that changes are needed if Flemington is to continue
growing and welcoming new entrepreneurs into our community. When I began this journey over a year ago, I was hopeful that Flemington could be a part of um that I could be part of the revival story. I actually found Flemington by
chance. I didn't really grow up around here. And after breach uh branching out from my home county of Somerset, a realer suggested I look here where rent might be a little bit more attainable for someone starting fresh. Um you know,
not like Somerville and New Hope and all those places. So over time I viewed more than 45 properties between Main Street, Stangle and the Circle. Along the way I faced many challenges. I submitted three
zoning application, reviewed over seven leases, consulted lawyers, and came close to giving up. Many of the properties in this town are in serious disrepair with mole problems and landlords unwilling to make
improvements. In most cases, landlords expected tenants to take on extensive repairs and renovations and unreasonable requests for someone renting rather than owning. The issue highlights a larger problem. Too many property owners do not
share Flemington's mission to grow. As a result, many buildings remain vacant and Main Street struggles to become a desirable uh destination it has potential to be. On top of these challenges, the current zoning restrictions make it even harder for
small businesses, especially those with mixed concepts like mine to establish themselves. Requirements and the wording around workshops, events, and community activities often create unnecessary barriers. Um, even though those very
activities are what attract people, foster connection, and build community here in town. While I don't claim to fully understand all the technicalities of zoning, I can say from personal experience that the way that it is currently structured
discourages new businesses from coming here. If I had not been persistent and campaigned for my business, I would not likely to have found a suitable location, especially in Flemington. After eight months of searching, I
finally was fortunate enough to secure the space I now occupy, and I'm incredibly grateful. I asked the board to please consider making zoning policies more flexible, inviting, and supporting of entrepreneurs. The future
of Flemington's growth depends on our ability to welcome new ideas, new businesses, and new people who want to invest in this town. with the right changes, Main Street, Stangle um can thrive again. Well, Main Street because Stangle's pretty thriving to me. Um I
also wanted to add um that I didn't put in here um and I don't know again I'm learning about this whole thing. Um if this is an appropriate place um to discuss the walkability of Flemington and Main Street. Um, we don't really
have a huge walking culture in America in general, but if you go to places like New Hope or Lambertville, you're walking all day. At least I am. And I love going to new towns and walking and discovering new things. But I would also like people
to maybe consider um bridging the gap between Stangle and the Main Street businesses. I'm a big big um advocate and supporter of collaborating together. I think that it is the business's responsibility to be able to promote
their businesses in a way um that is collaborative. Um I'm I'm a big component with my store um finding connection, creativity, and community. So, um, my point being is not only being able to work together as the businesses
between Stangle and Main Street, but also promoting walkability, making Main Street beautiful, colorful, flower boxes, get rid of the two dead trees in front of my store, put banners, we need fairy lights across the street, music
outside, something murals, art. Um, yeah, just a suggestion and I hope that we can work together to figure that part out. Thank you. Hi, I am Jen Selatis. I own Wildflower Yoga Collective. Can you spell your Oh, yeah. Please.
Well, just do Jen Elliottis. E L I A D E S. And where and your residence is? I live in Fington, but I own Wildflower Yoga Collective Alen Stangle. Um, so my question first I want to pose something to you. What what exactly is are you
divining as a popup? Are you considering then Karma Fest, Stangle, Witch Block, Sip and Strolls? This is really a common session question. Okay. So if you are considering all of these events as part of a popup, yes, we have a ton of them on Stangle. I
mean there's like 50 plus and it's great. We've brought the community together, right? So, I've lived here for all of my life. I remember when Main Street was up and running. We used to go to drinks at the Union Hotel, great stores and everything. But during that time, Stangle was dark. And now
Flemington is dark and Stangle is thriving. And we have done and worked together as businesses in Stangle to grow Stangle into what it is to all of these events, not just for us, but to bring the community together. And we have worked with the businesses on Main
Street to bring them into our events, have them as vendors and pop-ups to get their name out there at our events, but they are on Main Street while all of this construction is going on. And so, Mr. Parker, you talked about in your beginning sentence how or statement how,
you know, the divide. I feel like now we're trying to divide us. You know, you want all of these pop-ups to now be on Main Street. Take them away from Stangle. What? Why can't we have it both? Why can't we have the whole events beyond me? And
I think there's a little bit. That's what we were told. That's what we were told. We were told that the pop-ups it can't be that they want them on main street. The master plan master plan. No, I don't know. Like I
don't really want to have a dialogue because it's really commentary for you all but the master plan states that pop-up should be on Main Street. Keep the strength of Main Street. Just because some things are found as inconsistent to the master plan doesn't
necessarily mean the planning board does or doesn't want them. It but it's in the ma it's in the master plan right now. So there's things that people are willing to die on a sword for and things that they aren't. So you keep going on your comments, but it's in the master
plan. What the plan board is charged with is whether or not the elements of this ordinance are consistent with the elements in the mass. Okay. Okay. Well, so I'm saying we have Karma Fest. Bringing Karma Karma Fest is down
Stangle Road. Bringing Karma Fest to Main Street is wouldn't work. It's not big enough. It's also we something we did to be free to the community and we don't have a budget. We don't make money to close down the street on Main Street
to bring that to Main Street. That's it. I'll take it. Okay. So, what was said at the last planning board meeting was Oh, I'm Robin Leitus.
I'm the executive director of the Flemington Improvement District. And what I I I wish you would use Otter, whatever it is, so that we could get a transcript of what is said immediately after your meetings. I think would really help everybody so you don't have
to try to find a video, watch it. We have Zoom calls, you know, today where everything is transcribed before the meeting ends. You get an email five minutes later. I went to the last planning board
meeting to learn about the consistency or inconsistency of this zoning with the master plan. What was said repeatedly was the words forcing things onto Main Street. We have to
uh that the master plan has uh is written the way that it's written to force force things onto Main Street. forcing retail onto Main Street, forcing activity onto Main Street. Planning board members said
something about popups. If popups take place in other zones, then it won't force activity to be onto Main Street. If we have office on the first floor, we can't force retail into
a property owner's commercial building. This concept of forcing things and dividing people I I don't even know if I can say what I want to say without crying. You know, I I when I moved here,
I rented and I was insulted at many public meetings as a renter because renters were said to be not as good citizens or not as involved as people who own their properties. I am sorry,
but that is so not true and it is so incredibly insulting that I don't even know where to go from that. Second, this somebody said at the last planning board meeting that this this zoning is a
landlord driven ordinance letting them do whatever they want. What about everybody else? What about what we want? What about what the people have invested in this town? Because we looked at the development investment plans. we, you
know, why are not why are we not talking to landlords? Why are we not talking to businesses? There's not a commercial property owning person on the planning board. There's not a small business on the planning board. Why? It makes no
sense. So, this thing about popsups, popups has confused everybody. what we said when we were asked by the council and by the planner, what do we what do businesses today need? No one is buying
off the rack. You walk into a store, you look at a sweater, you can go home and buy it on Amazon for a hell of a lot less. We all say shop local, shop local, shop local. But really, how many time have you ever not walked into a store
and then found something for less online and had it shipped to your house? It's killing our business area. But so is this divisiveness, this lack of interest in having dialogues with each other.
It's outrageous to me to insult renters, to insult landlords, to make it seem like a person who owns a property in this town for commercial purposes is somehow only about money and not about the community and not about their
tenants and not about what we all want, which is active, vibrant streets. So, enough from me. I am going to read you a letter from one of our newest businesses that I think have something we all would agree we all want. Chocolate to whom it
may concern. We are the proud owners of Mr. Pops. They are unable to be here tonight because they're not feeling well. We are reaching out to express our concerns regarding the proposed removal of all non retail establishments from
the first floor spaces of historic Main Street. Upon our arrival on historic Main Street, we were inspired by the wonderful opportunities available for everyone, not just for retail and dining, but also for non retail
business. Although we are relatively new to the area, we have observed enough to recognize that eliminating all non- retail options from the first floor could lead to a host of unforeseen consequences. Had we been aware of such
a proposal prior to officially opening our doors, we would have contemplated relocating our business as this plan favored by Sun is not embraced by the majority. Non retail can positively impact retail and vice versa. By opening
our eyes to the opportunities created through collaboration, we can achieve great returns. For instance, how does chocolate tie into a real estate office? Just like River Valley, our neighboring business, we provide coffee and chocolates for their
clients and events. Right. Uh, local banks purchase our chocolate pops as gifts for their clients. Attorneys order our pastries and chocolates for meetings. We have collectively boosted our returning customer base. Do you see
the opportunities for us all to get along? Business is business and everyone needs to provide for their families. However, it is vital to maintain a healthy mix of all business types on Main Street to create a vibrant and diverse shopping district that attracts
both tourists and shoppers. If our chocolate is that good, you could consider moving next door to buy a house because that's the charm of Main Street. You could even sue us because the chocolate tastes so good just by walking across the street to a first floor law
office. To flourish, we must look forward instead of backward. We do not have multi-million dollar projects aimed at boosting our town's economy only to revert to a bygone era. The shopping
district of the 80s and the 2000s is behind us. As we step into a new era, let us collectively embrace the incredible future that awaits us each day. Sincerely, Mr. Pops. Delisty Eisenhut,
we're going to promote you attorney's office. Yeah, take your cell phone. Hi, thank you. My name is Adam Eisenhut. I was a resident of the burough for 10 years. I currently live in Buckingham, Pennsylvania, and I'm a co-owner of 7 Main Street, which is a law office. Um,
I've been an attorney on Main Street for over 15 years. We just recently purchased uh 7 Main Street and moved our law office from 169 to 7. We spent a lot of money to renovate it so that it could be a law office. And candidly, it's just
very concerning to see the opposition to having law offices in Flemington. I think that we provide an important service. Uh, Flemington is the county seat. We're adjacent to the courthouse. Um, our law firm provides services to victims of domestic violence. We do
volunteer work. I believe some of our clients who come in then leave and they go eat and they go purchase things. So, I do think that we are definitely a part of the community and the way people are complaining about about office space, I think just is very exclusionary and I
think that it it really uh there's just room for everybody. And uh I I lived right off of again Main Street for 10 years. Uh, I want to see Main Street grow and flourish, but I think that office space has a role in that. And I think saying that we're just going to change the rules after people have
invested in the community um is is a little just insulting towards the efforts of the people who have been here for a very long time. And I think that it devalues the property and I think it just disincentivizes future investment. So, uh, I support the current, um,
proposal and ordinance and even if it is in, um, not exactly line with the master plan, I think it's still what's best for Flemington. So, thank you, Mara. You have to bring down the like, you have to bring them back down. So,
you now made them bring them back to Yeah, you have to make them bring them back. Three. Oh, wait. Three dots. Why isn't he a dot? It's really easy to do. We're going to keep going.
Yeah. Uh, go ahead. Name the address, please. My name is James Cali. I'm at 33 Brown Street in Flemington. I grew up in Ryan Township and have been a resident of Flemington Burough since 20 uh since 2002. Uh, growing up in Ryder Township,
Flemington was a vibrant, um, exciting town. There was always stuff going on. Uh, during the day on the weekends, uh, into the evening, uh, the closure of, uh, Union Hotel back in uh,08, I suppose
that was, did great damage to Flemington and its identity. Uh, people didn't have as much reason to stay on Main Street. if they came on Main Street in the morning, uh there wasn't a place to have a burger and a beer, so they didn't bother staying for the afternoon. Uh I
feel that that's twofold, however. Um the the reemergence of the Union Hotel will be a very positive thing in that people will have a spot to go have lunch when they're doing whatever it is they're doing on Main Street. But it's always been commerce driven. Um
shopping, I don't discount the need for offices, etc., But it was a commerce-driven main street. Um, there are main streets in this country and I've driven through many of them in the tri-state area in the last few months in my job and some of them are residents
driven. Uh, that is not Flemington. That doesn't mean Flemington can't grow and change. But people are going to go to Flemington because they want to buy stuff. They want to go into stores whether they're buying stuff or not. They want to walk
around. Um, the addition of res more residents, residences, apartments, etc. on Main Street does nothing for me. Uh, as a resident of Flemington, that does not enhance my life here.
I feel that I've always referred to the Union Hotel, for example, as an anchor store in a mall. Right? If you've got a shopping mall and you don't have a Macy's or a Lord Gails or at least a J C Penney, you're going to die. Right? We've got the union hotel coming back
and if we only have a handful of commerce uh shops and restaurants and whatever um people are going to come in the morning, they might go in for the burger and beer, but they're not going to stay for the afternoon if there's nothing else to see. And what will
happen eventually is they won't stay for the burger and the beer. What'll happen next is they won't come to Flemington. The vibrance of Flemington Main Street is its commerce is its welcoming businesses. Um it is not driven by
apartments. Um it is driven by uh people getting out meeting not by skyigh garages to park too many cars in. Right. Thank you.
Um, hi there, Jane De Haven, 33 Pennsylvania Avenue. Um, I actually didn't expect to talk today, but just wanted as a jumping off point, someone talked about changing the rules. Um, I think that this bureau put an awful lot
of work into putting a master plan together. And it seems to me that the um planning board planner looked at that master plan and made very
definitive comments on how this ordinance is would or would not meet the goals of that master plan and found that they really would not meet the goals of that master plan. Um, as I understand
it, the uh planning board unanimously in fact put together their own resolution um trying to help this council understand their concerns with how this
ordinance would adversely impact the master plan. So I would just really ask that the burough council members read that um resolution and with its I think very succinct and important um
information from James Kyle and before doing anything doesn't mean you have to not do anything at all but it means that it would be very helpful to look things over again and then move forward if It's
warranted. Thank you. Good evening. My name is Donna Drews. I live at 26 Samuel Drive in Rarent Township. I'm here tonight to support one of the planning board's additional recommendations
um that came up during the public hearing on the ordinance. And basically that re that u recommendation says that the governing body should permit social service agencies and family service uses in the
downtown business and downtown business two districts. The unintentional removal of these uses I believe is inconsistent with your 20122 master plan.
That master plan under its land use element notes that the downtown business is where the majority of the burough's downtown uh it encompasses the majority of the burough's downtown and permits a variety of retail office and services uses.
Well, I hold that individual and family services like um le senior legal services and a harbor of hope and all these great social service agencies that are in the Flemington area because of
its role as a county seat as long as counseling services are really critically important. So therefore I would really uh request that you know these services though um also generate high foot traffic. You
know when you see the kids that are going to Carol Deor's place and the families that are going they generate foot traffic so they are meeting the needs of your community. By removing these uses um you're also
going to make the existing ones that are here a pre-existing non-conforming use. And we've heard this evening how expensive it is to go free use varants in this community. Um and so we really want to think about going back and following the planning board's recommendation of keeping individual and
family services in the DB and the downtown business 2 district. Um because it also additionally supports your master plan goal to employ strategies that encourage community and economic development within the uh burough and
individual and social uh service organizations strengthen their community fabric by meeting the needs of seniors, families, children, and all individuals by providing a wide range of resources, support, and programming. So I encourage the governing body to implement
recommendation number three from the planning board. Thank you. Anotherbody elsebody their hand up. What? If anybody on their one online wants to put their hand up, you have to do that in order to get called on. Yeah.
Cool. It's kind of loud. Um, hi everybody. My name Ally Norton. I uh live at 29 East Main Street and I own uh a business at 52 Main Street called The Corner. I also rent a space upstairs for a portrait studio uh for Dave Loroto. Um
I uh asked council to uh vote in favor of the ordinance. Um there's a couple things that I do want to clarify. uh first um retail on the first floor. I was here uh in 2024 um at several council meetings where there were
discussions about zoning the first time. Um and while I love the idea as a resident and as a business owner that Main Street is covered in retail stores, it is a pipe dream that is unlikely to happen. And I know that because I am the
former chair of the FIB board and I had the opportunity to walk through all of the uh the uh available and some not available spaces with multiple business owners. Heather Lee was one of them. My friends who are opening Charmed and Bound are another one where it is near
impossible to convert these spaces without a huge amount of money. Floodington is not favorable to bring in businesses with a ton of money. So, we have to understand where our limitations are.
I also hear the comparison to Somerville. I have friends who own stores in Somerville. I am a third generation uh small business owner. My grandparents owned a store on Main Street in Somerville. The vacancy rate for retail stores there is huge. you
talk to the people who are running the uh the uh business association there. Even in Morristown, some of these towns, New Hope, you walk there, there are vacancies everywhere. When you are forcing landlords to conform to certain things, the onus is on the retailers and
often times we do not have the capital to be doing that. The next thing I wanted to touch on was the pop-up shops. popup shop should be allowed in every single commercial business that exists in the entire burrow. When I tell you that I have held Brian earmuffs so many
illegal popups in my store because I did not realize until I had to stop doing them that a wreath making workshop to try and sell some of the stuff and bring people in that that having the HC mamas sponsor an event because they wanted to come and they wanted to bring community
together illegal. I want to have a shopping night outside of my work hours. Illegal. None of that is allowed in the current zoning, but in the zoning ordinance here, it's allowed. The last thing I just want to bring up is I've heard a lot of of um I really wish I
brought my water, but um I've heard a lot of concern about uh adding apartments on Main Street, and I hear that. I get that. I know there are concerns. Um what I say is when you think about what is written specifically in this ordinance and you look at the
likelihood of apartments it is very small and just because it's a possibility does not mean that it's going to happen. Just be like just because there are are variances I think that were passed for people to do this and those have not been turned into apartments. So, I just want to make sure
we're being realistic about what the impacts are for not voting for this on the businesses, knowing that I come at this from both a business owner and resident uh perspective. Please vote for the ordinance. Thank you.
Oh, sorry. Um, my name is Gabriella Trippy. I own Humd Ice Cream on Stangle Road. Um, I was a resident here the past two years. I'm now in Doylestown, so I'm no longer one of the evil, no good, dangerous renters,
but I was the past two years. Um, I wanted to specifically talk about the master plan and its push to Main Street. Um, I went to Hunter Central High School. I'm only 26 years old. I've had my business for this was my seventh ice
cream season. Um, but I put everything that I had into coming to Flemington and I put my entire dream lives in Flemington. And I think the thing that a lot of people forget about business owners in this town is that we are people. We are not huge corporations
with really large margins. Um, this is how we put a roof over our head. And for most of us, it like really is a dream. And the master plan pushing everything to Main Street is concerning. It's scary and it's really divisive and it's so sad
to me because like we love each other all the business owners like we really really love each other and we want to see people succeed at the shops and we want to see people succeed on Main Street and we also really want to succeed on Stangle and we've had such a incredible business community and I
don't usually come to these meetings but when I heard about the language that was used at the planning board meeting and just some of these things in the master plan I had to be here. And I I'm shaking right now because I hate public speaking, but I had to say something because um it's not only my dream, it's
Alli's dream, it's Karen's dream, it's Valentina and Ben's dream. And there were business owners before. It's Jen's dream. Like this is more than just um money to us. And I just want I'm with the ordinance
proposed by the council and I just want to make that very clear. Good evening, uh, Mayor Carol and Council. Um, I just want to back that up. Oh, sorry. Ben Wineman, uh, residents Everzill Road, Flemington. Um, business
to Stangle Road, Flemington. I don't know about all the semantics as far as the ordinance and the the master plan as far as popups and things like that um and restrictions, but I just want to talk about the idea that um I
think it's very crucial that we maintain these different sections of Flemington. We have the business district. We have the arts and cultural district district. We have the historical district. I think all of those are going to be draw. And
one of the reasons why we put our business on Spangle Road um is because there is a community there which includes ice cream shops, tattoo shops, coffee shop, boutiques that have survived co and every imaginable
obstacle possible. Um, and not being able to do pop-ups and things like that on that road will be completely detrimental to the to the culture of this town um, and its identity. The type of things that I personally want to bring in with my background in culture
and music and arts for over 30 years now are things that would not survive in a different place uh in Flamington because these are events that need a road like Stangle with tattoo shops and barber shops and ice cream shops and things like that
because they're things that uh are attracted to that and they would bring a lot of people to this town. So, I just uh wanted to give my thoughts on that and that's about it. Hi, my name is Karen Shankoff. I own Attachments and Sage on Main Street in
Bloomington. Um, I had two stores. Unfortunately, COVID killed my business and I'm still standing after 23 years. Um, I don't know many of you here, although I have a store for 23 years. I know just two people on this board. Oh.
Oh, I know. Yes, I know three. I'm sorry. I just wish that more people on the council would come out and show their faces and support us as business owners. This has been the most difficult time in my life. I'm 64 years old
almost. I am working harder today than I ever had to work in my whole entire life. two stores on Main Street for many years. Before COVID, my business did $400,000 more 10 12 years ago than it is doing
today. I have $90,000 in loans from COVID. I had to leave one store and move it into another store. And we're talking about we can't do popups. You'd have no idea how hard I have to work to pay my employees, to pay my rent, um to do
everything in this house, to have fabulous merchandise turning around all the time. But I've always been the type of person when and I'm going back 20some years ago when people would walk into my store and say, "What's going on with this town?" And then nobody does anything in this town. And I never ever
once complained. I always stayed positive and I said, "I chose this town. I chose this town to have my business. It's up to me to make my business work. It's not up to anybody else. But to make my business work, I have to go out of
the box. I have to be extremely creative. I have to carry my wares on my back for years doing shows out of the store just to pay the bills. And now my bills are so high you can't even imagine. But I'm not a quitter. And I
also feel that Main Street will survive if these sto if these bottom stores the these bottom places can can get somebody in there. I'm sure you all know I'm in the Deetsz building. Um Dr. Howard Herman, the orthodontist, he has been
out for months. It looks horrible there. I have spoken to so many people. I called Sue Blackmire. I've taken people right through there to try and get even you came. I mean, look, I support I support everybody and I will try my
hardest to get, you know, somebody um in, you know, I'm very positive, but it is so much money to tear apart a building like Dr. You know, Dr. Herman's orthodontist office to what's that? $50,000.
And that's m Do you know what it cost me to build Sage out and it didn't even need the amount of work that that office needs? And I'm going back 8 years ago. It's more than 50,000, trust me, to knock those walls out and do something there cuz I spent a fortune on on building Sage out and I just put racks
up and put a few things in. Um, but anyway, if a realtor wanted to come in, that would benefit my business because I do closing gifts for people. I would love nothing more than an ice cream shop to be next door to me. But at this point, I
would take anybody to come next door, open up their doors, and just be able to make a living like like we do. So, it's really it Main Street's not easy. It hasn't been easy. We have to work it. We have to work together. But, you know,
these stipulations, they just become a little bit too much. So, I'm not going to reiterate on anything that anybody else said because I totally agree with everybody here and I understand all the people who live in town and that the things they don't want. I I'm off in Switzerland. I I go back and forth. I
don't know what to believe sometimes because everybody makes sense, right? Like, we all make sense, but we have major major bills. And I have to say, nobody really has ever come in except the few people that I know here to just
welcome themselves and see how we're doing and what can we do. Nobody. And I'm talking that over the years, none none of the mayors have ever really walked into my store. The only one was Erica Edwards who used to close down Main Street for me and let me go out with tents and and have events. I did
huge events. I had Teresa Jadis years ago. I had 800 women women wrapped around Broad Street literally for a book signing and Erica Edwards shut down the street in front of my store. Got tables, got pence. We had the most amazing night. It was supposed to be two hours.
It lasted till 2:00 in the morning. It It was the talk of the Get yourself in trouble. Not legal. What's that? Not legal. Well, we did it. And you know what? It was amazing. And we like we were I mean how many years I'm going back, but
anyway, we did it. We had fun. Everything, every every area needs a popup. Every area needs an event. And if I stop doing events in my store, I'm done. I am done. So, thank you.
Uh Todd Cook, 39 Pennsylvania Avenue. Uh I've lived here since 1993. I was on the planning board from 2001 to 2023. I believe that makes me the longest member in Flemington history or at least this millennium millennium. So,
um I have personally read uh the 1997 master plan, analyzed it, rewrote it in 2010, rewrote it in 2015 with a re-exam, rewrote it in 2022. I pretty much can recite our master plan at any given
time. And when I think of coming together as a community, somebody once said at a planning board meeting decades ago, you know, I'm not bringing my business here unless council, the bid, and the planning board are all aligned because it is so hard to do business
when council is fighting the planning board. We had, or at least I did in my tenure, enjoyed Mayor Cuter, Halp, Edwards, Grryer, and Driver. I was accused of being in cahoots with Phil D Phil at sometimes and it's it's so the
name calling never ends uh Councilman Parker but um it's it the rhetoric now is ridiculous and I I I think it's sophomoric at best. I I just think we all deserve more. I think you all deserve more from each other. Um I think
the name calling is is really like just childish to be honest. And um however the master plan public sessions on Saturdays I can't tell you how many times we were in a courtroom with public visioning statements. And so again so I
I now I sound dated because I've done this for almost 25 years where members of the public come in say what they want. Yeah. We want a vibrant main street. So, when I read through the the the ordinance, being inconsistent, like
Mayor Caro said, doesn't mean the pen board doesn't want it. It means we missed it. It means we missed something in 2022. We wrote that in after COVID and we're like, "Oh my god, Main Street's dying. We're it's dead, you know, we we need the hotel." So, so yeah, now you need it everywhere. Now
you need to expand. And um as many of you know, now I'm a realtor plug. if I can get rid of my words. Um, but I serve Lambertville and and Flemington. Do you know in Lambertville their zoning allows for a a house, a restaurant, uh, an
apartment? Uh, it could be anything that downtown. And when we go to Lambertville, does anybody say, "Oh, I don't I don't like walking around Lamville." We're talking right smack dab in the heart of Lambertville. That's what makes things work. But when I read it, you have to say it's inconsistent
when we miss something in 2022. if we didn't say popups were allowed, we missed it. So now's the time. And when when folks were talking about council going around and talking, don't forget many of the people on council were also on planning boards during the tenure of
at least for me from 2001 to 2023, at least uh four or five uh folks up there were on the planning board with me. And so again, I I I I can't stress more, our ordinances need an overhaul. I have people that want to open up a business
and I am I'm Mr. Flemington. I'm like, "Wow, I live right downtown. Let me show you." And they say, "I wouldn't touch that town with a 10-ft pole. Not with a 10-ft pole." Be and I said, "Why? Why?" Because the ordinances don't work. Nobody likes each other. Everybody
fights and it is not businessfriendly. And nobody wants development. Nobody wants apartments either. Nobody wants developments. So, so we're sort of stuck in this thing. So when I read this I think say yeah there's a lot of inconsistencies of things that we missed but it shares that vision of a vibrant
main street. So I wouldn't at all say that you know yes there are things but like even you know the comment that was made earlier about social services it's an office. I don't care what kind of office it is and and and that's been our issue. I'm sorry are you a law office
because a law office can't be turned into a doctor office. It's an office. You have people coming in and out. it's an office whether it's social services or not. So when I look at it I think wow they really did their due diligence of cleaning up some of the messy how the sausage is made. I didn't read anywhere
that there was highdensity housing coming in and here's another union hotel coming down. Maybe I missed that but I didn't see it. So I look at it and say wow you guys really cleaned it up. So just go for it because my goodness we've got to start changing somewhere. Don't
put all your all of our eggs in a Union hotel. Yes, it will be a catalyst. Yes, we know that. But in two years, it will be a catalyst. And while landlords suffer and die and and businesses close, trust me, when when you when you as residents, we all pay a lot in taxes.
Just wait till more people go out on Main Street and see our taxes go up because they pay taxes, too. So, don't make it about taxes. Don't make just make it about good government that says wow look at the master plan align it with ordinances and make it a little
easier for a business to come into town. Um and whether or not you read about oh my goodness if you have an 8 foot doorway you can put an apartment okay I can count on one hand where that happened. Um, and this is we're talking about saying things like, "Does anybody
mind that there's a house behind bread and culture?" Because that was a variance when I was here and we're like, "Wow, you know, you get it doesn't work as a business. Nobody walks around the building." So, we're like, okay, we get it. So, now this cottifies that type of work thinking to say if it's great for a
store, make it a store. My office is right next to Mr. Pops. I can't tell you how much business I give Mr. Pops. Hopefully, you know, you can't say buy chocolate, get a free house, but maybe. So, anyway, I don't want to take up any more of your time. I don't think this is the big boogeyman at all. I think this
is good planning. And when I no disrespect to the planning board, but there are many members on council that were on planning board and you know, when you read through the master plan, yes, there are some inconsistencies flat out that were absolutely missed in 2022.
So, I'm Marie Andy. I live on Broad Street. As 76 Broad Street and as a resident, my biggest concern with the um ordinance is the availability or the the um the
availability of housing being allowed. Uh, if you want I'm I'm all in favor of business. I'm a business owner. I want businesses down there. I don't want more residents. We have enough residents. We have enough upcoming building coming up with Spice Factory, with uh the Away
site, with the Liberty Village. Uh the hotel is going to be 200 people. There'll be a lot of residents. My our quality of life has already changed. Uh and I see it further changing with all of these people coming in. I do I this is my biggest concern about the uh the change in the ordinance is the even
though you think that it it uh oh they won't do it they are allowed to do it if you're if it's as goes proposed I don't want more residents on first floor main street uh I don't think it adds to the vibrancy of the town the other concern
is the uh parking you can uh they're able to build behind uh and I'm not in favor of that I believe I have that right. I know you made a comment about that, right? Um and um the height also as well. I may be one
of the few people in town that that is not so crazy about the hotel project. It's too high. I hate it. Um as a resident um I really don't want any buildings that high or um higher. Um see
okay, I think that's it. Those are my biggest concerns about anybody else. Probably not. Lois Stewart, Emry Avenue, Bloomington. I used to live on Spring Street till they started that horrible project. Now
I'm on Emory because Thank you for the comment. Not everyone in this town thinks that we need to have that courthouse square and that is changing our community radically
and certainly the parking. We used to have a big parking lot down there. There's no parking for the public now in this section of Main Street. If if the ordinance is passed and a permission is
given to make the rear yard setback less and you can build more buildings back there. Where are the people going to park?
There is no parking between the post office and and William Street. for that part. I mean, it's just uh But anyhow, I'm a resident, but I love all you businesses, even though I don't come because when you get to be old, you
don't need so much. I love I love the fact that you're all there and I love that that some of you are on Stangle and some of you are on Main Street. And I just hope that both Stangle and Main Street get more and
more and more and more. But I also want it to be a community where I can live. I was born in a house on M Street a long time ago. I remember
when Flemington was a booming town and I have seen what has happened. I too want a vibrant main street as well as a good residential area.
But the one thing that only one person and I don't know I think she's left she talked about historical preservation that's just crucial in my my uh opinion. So, whatever change is going to come to
help this town has got to I wrote this all down, but I don't remember what I wrote because I'm old. Um, it has to support and reflect the integrity of the burrow's historical history. We can't
pass ordinances that let buildings be ripped down because somebody wants to put a bowling alley on Main Street. I mean a bowling alley would be fine if there is a building here that would accommodate a build a bowling alley but
I don't want and that's one question I asked how if the current architectural picture of this part of Main Street how is that going to be retained unless there's some way of identifying
properties that cannot be demolished. like the one building on Main Street that was historical and yet it was demolished for the unsightly courthouse square project.
So I want what you want, but I want the changes made in a way that preserves what we have that is good. We can't throw the baby out with the bathwater. There are a couple things that
uh one thing is not only the parking but the traffic. The traffic is already unmanageable. And as somebody talked about all the apartments that we have coming, it's got to be hundreds of more cars because most
families have two cars. So if you have 200 apartments coming at Courthouse Square, that means we're going to have 300 more cars. Where are we going to put 300 more cars? I mean, it is there are
so many problems that have to be addressed that we have to do it in a very very cautious manner. We can't just say, "Oh, well, let's start and go." We have to. And as Jane, I think she left,
but Jane said she thinks there has to be more time and attention and take into consideration all your all of your concerns and the resident's concerns. Um I mean it's just the
it's just not only the rear but how about the mention there was a mention of standards should be revised to pres to permit an increase in density and intensity. We don't need any more
intensity in this in this burrow. We need people to come and shop, but we don't need more buildings and more less parking and all that kind of stuff. So, I just have concerns
that perhaps are more residential oriented, but that doesn't mean that I'm not hearing what you guys are saying and that I don't appreciate what you're saying because I know but
somebody talked about Robin, was that you about coming? Somebody was talking about going in the shop and then going home and buying it for less for on Amazon. I want to tell you I have never bought a thing on Amazon.
I have not because I think the people that are standing behind the counters tell me about their product is more important. And if I have to pay two bucks more, I pay two bucks more. But um also I wanted to talk a little
about trees and green space. When I was young, this town was not as hot as it is today. We're living in a heat aisle and we need to have more green space. So that's just another
reason for the board and the council not to permit more buildings and more parking lots and all this stuff. We have to have places. And you know what? There's all sorts of research that shows trees and greenery not only help the the
residents, but they are good for the economic well-being of the town. People go to a place and if there's a tree here by your business, they're going to park there. No tree over here, they're not going to
park there. So, we need to do more to get more greenery in this town. But um as far as the offices on Main Street, I've thought about that and I would ask
that the council only if they go that route that they only do that between a Captain and William and that would be the only place that he
could have an office on Main on the first floor because I agree that social service offices certainly the uh financial office there on Main Street. I see people going in and out of there all the time. They bring they do bring
people to town, but I can understand that some towns have had success with eliminating the offices on the first floor. But I think we have to do it gradually and see
how it works out. So if you make two blocks, no offices on first, and it works out really well, well then maybe you'll expand that. But I personally like offices on the first floor because I agree with that woman who said she was only 30 some years old and was hard to
get up and down the steps. If they don't have an elevator, it's tough. And you have to recognize that this county has a substantial number of older adults and they still
need to go and pick up business and if there's no elevator and you know so um I just I just wish there was a solution a quick solution for everybody but I do
think you know that perhaps we need to um do a little more digging and homework and get this thing a little more in tune with what will make coming a
more dynamic community. Um there's one other thing I want to a cons consistent street ball. Did you guys read about that? consistent street wall in some of these
papers. That's where all the buildings along the street have to be the same distance from the curb. Well, that's just that's a city. That's not Flemington. And variety is a spice of life. So, if one building's here, one building's
there, and one building someplace else, maybe we'd get a bit of green grass on the main street. Um, well, I could go on, but I can see some of you are getting be. So, my name is Mark Pavers, 35 Brown
Street. Um, I had gone through and listened to the council meetings, the planning board meetings. I wanted to educate myself on all of this and I had a whole statement that I prepared, but I intentionally waited till towards the end to say anything because I wanted to hear from
everybody what the different perspectives were. And so, I just want to start by thanking everybody for sharing so much. Um, I want to thank the council also for the work that you do for moving the community forward. Um, and the opportunity for us to all make comments. Um, like I said, I I carefully
reviewed the ordinance planning board meeting minutes and the videos, etc., etc. Um, and I I think that the ordinance has a good intention to stimulate growth, create more flexibility, encourage investment in Flemington Burough. Um, I I think those
are all really positive goals and I do think that we all want to see Flemington and Main Street thrive and and also areas outside of Main Street. Um, I do have some concerns with the ordinance. Um, I will say that I had a list of about five different things that's
probably down now from five to two or three. Um, I am concerned about also just the inconsistencies with the master plan. And I did hear some of the comments that were made and I appreciate that perspective. Um, but one of the things that I've heard kind of as a
common thread as I've been listening tonight is, you know, the master plan was put together with a lot of commentary from the residents, from different people in the town, etc., etc. Um, and I'm I'm missing that here when I hear where the input was gathered from
the council. I hear a lot from the business owners, which is appropriate and right and should be, but I'm missing where it was from the residents, right? And so I agree with Lois. I think there are still some gaps here. If we want to as a community gather together around
this idea that we still have opportunity here to go back and reflect and try to come up with something that does actually work better for the three areas that I'm concerned with at this point still would be one that I don't know that has been me mentioning which is shipping certain permission
uses to permanent which are outside the DV1 and DB2 zones. Um, I'm concerned about that just because it removes the planning board oversight and the ability to potentially provide additional guided growth carefully. Um, conditional still allows for it. It's just with some
oversight. I'm also concerned about the first four residences. Um, maybe a little less so than I was when I came in, but it still is a concern. Um, and the one that I still am concerned about that I don't know that I feel has been addressed
completely is the rear building setback changes and the potential impact of parking. Um, specifically because it would be happening at a time when traffic flow um and parking are already strained. We do know that there are a
high number of new apartments that are coming in, hundreds. Um, we've got the new hotel, uh, we've got retail spaces from that that are coming online. And so, while I think that all of those changes, um, might have merit in the right context,
I think the timing is critical. So, with such a large redevelopment project that's coming in and about to open, I think we're on the cusp of transformation that will bring more residents, visitors, businesses downtown. And my question is why not give that redevelopment time to prove
its impact before making those changes that I just talked about. Um that could compromise that revitalization, right? And that's what we've been working all of us towards for a very long time. And that's what I've
heard consistently tonight. Um so for me as a resident for the past 10 years in Flemington, I do love living here. I want to see Main Street be a vibrant place that I can go shop and I can dine, I can spend time late at night with my
family. Um, I love what has happened with Stangle. I'd love to see the same happen with Main Street. And so I've seen that potential growing slowly over the past decade. I'm excited for what to come what's to come. But I I do believe there's a pragmatic approach
that needs to be taken specifically to the three things that I mentioned. um one that allows that redevelopment to take root and let us evaluate its effects and then make some informed decisions aligned to the vision for the
town. Um all that being said, I do urge the council to pause, reconsider the ordinance in its current form. And what I heard tonight, the piece that I had added into what I wanted to say is, can we hold a public forum, something to
bring the residents in to try to bridge the gap that I'm hearing between the businesses, the residents, and also the other thing that I heard, and this is not a knock on all landlords because I know there's some landlords here, is it does sound like there is something that
is consistently not functioning well with vacant locations, mole growing, all. So I think there's a gap there as well around the landlord and having a conversation. Are they aligned to the vision for the town? How can we incentivize them to do the
things that need to happen to allow the businesses to do what they need to do and potentially avoid additional residences? Um, and so I I I would just ask the council to consider that, to pause, to reflect, and to take a look at
what has been proposed in a little bit more detail so we can all kind of come to this on the same page and in some form of agreement. Thanks for the time. Thanks for listen. Hello friends and neighbors both. My name is Eric Bliss. I'm at 30 Maple
Avenue. Um I am a resident as well as a landlord, not commercial. Um and uh have a a strong desire to see this community thrive. Um I'm also somebody who looked at potentially opening a business and acquiring property on Main Street. So I
have a little bit of insight on that one. Um but there's kind of three points that I want to four points that I want to get to. One is um I agree with the group that came up here around deregulating the pop-ups. That is a valid thing to do and to give those businesses those opportunity. I also
agree with the gentleman uh over here and others who talked about the parking issue in terms of doing the uh backyard resizing. I I don't necessarily think that that's a bad idea. I think it's a timing issue, right? until we see what's going to happen with, you know,
everything that's happening on Main Street, especially with the uh hotel. I I would ask the council just put that aside for a little bit, put it on the side. Let's come back to that once we know what it's going to look like because parking is a problem already. It's going to become another problem.
Um in terms of that also, uh in terms of residential, um I'm also of the opinion that we don't need the residences at this point on Main Street. Um, as I looked at a building to buy on Main Street, my wife and I both talked about it. Somebody said, "Ah, nobody's going to put residential on there." I I can
tell you as we looked at the property, that is exactly what we thought about doing. It had multiple spaces. And what would we go, you know, we could make this work if we put residential in here and we let retail go there. So, you know, anybody who's looking at trying to make us buy a highly priced building and
and make it pay off in a way that works for whoever is going to be renting from it or or using it or living in it, um residential is the easiest thing to fill. And and I think that is an ongoing risk. So, you know, if if those of you are thinking, yeah, residential is not
going to happen there, I can tell you I thought about doing it. Okay. Um, lastly, I'll I'll talk about just off to the side. Um, one person I think Lois, you were talking about the greenery and such of that, the trees. This is a quick aside. Um, I don't understand we have
why we have trees that we recently put in into the downtown district that are dying because they're not being watered. So, I would love to see at some point that being addressed by the council and how do we get those maintained on a regular basis. So, that's all I have. Thank you.
Anybody else? Really? Right. Can I have a motion to close the hearing from the public? Move. Is there a second? All in favor? I for the council um makes a motion uh
one way or another on this ordinance. I'm going to ask for a very brief break. It's 9:16. Um, we're gonna go to like uh maybe Jeremy, what do you think? Three minutes top
920 to deliberate between Oh my god. Thanks, folks. Thank you. Oh, yeah. Thanks. All right. At this point, the public hearing
closed, so I need a motion. I got to find myself. Okay. This time I need a motion to What's the motion? Is the motion to Chris? What is the motion? Is it the over the plane force
or they in favor of this ordinance? I'm not sure what it is. What is it? Approve the ordinance at the ordinance is up for final adoption. Okay. So over. All right. So can I have a motion to
approve ordinance 202521? Second. All right. Uh question start I think we have to remember Beth and I spoke about this u the municipal law is clear on this just for those
the microphone quickly. Municipal land use law is clear on this just for the minutes Carla when you get to prepare them have to reflect uh the nature of of the discussion if the council elects to go in a different direction what the planning board recommendation it's just
black letter in the municipal land use law so you you're recording the meeting which is fine but for the comments that are made it should develop a record that I agree on this um that uh states the reasoning for the diversion from the planning board's recommendation
is it called record resolution. It's just reflected in the minutes, right? The ordinance can be what it is for so I think it's really appropriate the
master I'm sorry thank you. I think it's very appropriate in terms of the master plan for Beth Beth. Can you just explain to everybody what the master plan is, what it does and what it doesn't? I think that's the starting point.
Yeah. Be happy. Uh so a master plan is it's a it's a document that's adopted in a lot of states, but in New Jersey, we have uh very specific laws about land use. And so here in Jersey, the master plan is a policy document. It is not a
regulatory document. So, uh, at its at its base level, what that means is if folks, regardless of of this ordinance, if folks are looking to occupy a building or build something that is inconsistent with the master plan, they don't need to ask for special relief from it. It's only the zoning ordinance
that regulates land use and that folks would need to ask for relief from or also referred to as a variance or or a waiver uh from the planning board. So while it's not a regulatory document, it is still a really important document in
New Jersey because it is the uh the foundation that policy document serves the foundation of land use and it is also important for other aspects for the planning board as well as for the council's consideration. So when I say it's a foundation document, it is the
document that expresses the vision for the community as uh as related to land use if it's a land use element or maybe circulation if it's a circulation element. But here for this ordinance, it's really about land use. So the land use element expresses the vision for the
community as stated in in this case in 2022 because that's the last time the planning board adopted uh the master plan. And so while it provides that vision and the policies that are intended to support and guide development of land use ordinances uh it
is uh and that's exactly why it's relevant to this discussion. So in addition to the law laying out what this document is the fact that it's I should also note it's only adopted by the planning board. It's not it doesn't come to a governing body for for their future
adoption. Uh the law requires that this document play a role in development of ordinances, land use ordinances. Uh specifically when a municipality decides to adopt an ordinance or decides to introduce an ordinance, I should say uh
after introduction, it refers the ordinance to the planning board. And that's exactly what this council did. Uh and the planning board's role as stated in the municipal land use law is to evaluate the ordinance to find or rather identify if there are any
inconsistencies with the terms of the ordinance to the master plan and identify those consistencies and then the board also has an opportunity to provide additional recommendations for it. And so while the uh while the the
document is the policy document is the foundation and it's certainly definitely intended that the land use ordinances are consistent with the master plan. It is not a requirement in New Jersey land use law that they that they are
consistent and that's exactly why the the council is having to address the reasons on the record if it decides to adopt the ordinance. is obligated to express reasons why it is that it's uh adopting ordinance that's found by the
planning board to be inconsistent. So in in summary, this is a policy document. It's the foundation. It's the vision for the community uh as stated in in this case in 2022 and is adopted by the planning for but it is not a a
regulatory document. It's not a not a law that must be adhered to. Thank you. I got I got a lot of comments. Um, can you speak in the mic? I'm sorry. I can try. I try. I really don't like using microphone.
Hear myself. A lot of people brought up housing and the way that I see it, right? I don't I didn't really see this ordinance as changing the dynamics of the housing situation here in the burough of Fington all that much. But the way I see the
story of what has happened to Flemington is that 50 plus years of unfettered single family housing development, strip malls and big box stores in Ren Township has sacrificed the fields and the farmland of Ron Township and shifted business away from the burrow of
Flemington and the downtown. And we here in the burrow have the audacity to try and restore the balance in the slightest bit that our main street won't actually have people on it and living on it. And frankly people lose their minds. Uh you know the reality is that Liberty Village died, the Union Hotel died and any
efforts to fix this it's you know the reality is that the market had every single opportunity to save these spaces and it did not. People simply did not continue to shut up. So why would any business owner or property owner with any financial sense try the same exact
thing without the underlying fundamentals of the population changing in any manner? Simply wishing that a space be built or a store open is not enough to make somebody commit the capital required to function. We added nearly 100 units in the last 20 years.
And what happened to this town? This is while raring grew, but at the same time so did the big box stores. Suck the life out of here. We just got a new target. That's great. That's another 30 plus businesses worth of revenue that will never touch main street that people so
desperately want back. So that's why we need to put our customers here. We have 300 to 600 units coming online and that is a lot. That is going to be a big change. I am hoping it it is positive. Uh when we were working on this
ordinance, I really did not intend to I don't know, increase the housing dynamics that much. Maybe more opportunities for certain types of homes. Somebody brought up the one behind uh bread and culture. That is a good example of one that could be built
under this new zoning ordinance without having to go through, you know, meetings and meetings worth of planning board hearings. Um, secondly, the the core question we are asking here tonight, the way I view it, is whether or not we would rather tolerate an office, a
so-called non-active use, or no use at all. I do not believe, and I have been presented little evidence that restricting the number of uses on Main Street will suddenly grow demand for others. I understand that there may be some argument that in theory restricting non-active uses will provide some kind
of cooperation effect and draw more, but I I do not think we are there yet. And I am not willing to gamble that uh I'm not willing to gamble the livelihoods of the businesses on Main Street and you know our our commercial tax base. If in two years time when the
hotel is open, there's new residents from Spice Factory maybe, but probably not Liberty Village at that point and there's no more room on Main Street for shops or offices or anything else, then maybe we can say, "Okay, no more, you know, no more non-active uses. We can do
just retail." The hotel's right around the corner, though. And guess what? There are still no shortage of retail spaces available right now. There's fewer than there were this time last year when I first counted, but they still aren't all filled yet. And until then, though, I would much rather I I
would rather see a business, any business in those spaces, and this ordinance will allow for that. I do not want to see more lawyers or real estate agents on Main Street any more than anybody else does, but merely All right. You know what I will say?
Merely zoning for Disney World will not get us Disney World. There has to be sufficient demand to build it. And changing the zoning does not automatically increase supply or demand for a given business. What might help get us there is that rather than constricting the number of uses, this
ordinance opens up the possibility of so many more active uses than there are than there were before. The zoning will permit businesses you and I haven't even thought of yet that could open and I really really hope they do. Further one last point on that is that you know further vacancies reduce property values and when commercial property values
decrease the tax burden is shifted onto the residents keeping building fil buildings filled on Main Street. I believe that is a very pro- resident move here. on the bulk standards. The new bulk standards provide much more flexibility to many of our already existing lots and buildings as they
stand today to be in compliance and avoid very costly, very time consuming and business killing planning board hearings. It does not absolve them of any parking or access requirements as some have seemed to suggest. It merely provides greater flexibility. As for the social services, as someone
who helped craft this ordinance, I also had no intention of forbidding social services and I understood the majority of them to be either offices, learning centers, child care, or some mix of all them. All of which are permitted under this ordinance. And if it is such that in the future when our zoning officer is
interpreting this ordinance that they are not permitted, I am open personally to amending that at that time. with the popup events. I think there are enough events to go around without taking away the spotlight from mainstream. I think we will be fine on
that front. This is this is it. I'm almost done. We all desperately want more things to do here. We all want our small businesses to succeed and I genuinely believe that this ordinance in its current form will help us get there. It may not be perfect. There may be unintended
consequences. I do not have a crystal ball. In my time on the planning board, I know the limitless imagination that architects, engineers, and developers can have in twisting your zoning ordinances into horrors you could not imagine. But they're going to do that no matter what they have done with the
zoning that we have now. We will all be watching very closely what comes of this and we can amend it and fix it if needed. For right now, I think it's pretty good and opportunities are passing by every day. We do not update the zoning ordinance. That's it. Thank you. No more comments,
Miss Angleart. Um I um I think I want to just really quickly reiterate I've said it in the past master plan is a fluid document. It is not law. It is not an ordinance. It is recommendations that have been
gathered from residents and business owners and property owners over years and years and it gets updated a minimum of every 10 years but usually more often than that. I think I am the second longest serving planning board
I think by three years and I wrote I helped write this or this master plan and all the updates. I'm a I said this at a previous meeting but there's a lot more people here now so I'll say it again. I'm a big cheerleader of our master plan. It's definitely serves a
purpose. It's our guiding light and that is our um as as as Trent said our Disneyland and it is it is a it's a good goal. However, it gets updated very regularly because you can't possibly hit
everything even every five years on it. There's there's always, you know, you'll you'll you'll touch this part but not that part. It's a it's a very fluid document. That being said, it's it's important to for the planning board to
listen to the the council and the council to listen to the planning board and that's why we go back and forth. There is that legal process. The the original ordinance for those of you that don't know in this room, the original ordinance that was proposed here was proposed by the planning board. We had
um a good review, a detailed review of the TC district and the VAS district. we actually got rid of the office district um you know as a result and this was kind of like the last step but I think one of the reasons why we waited to do it uh was because it was one of the
hardest ones it's it's complicated it's um there's there's smaller parcels and they're close together and there's it's a lot of mixed um uses so I I get it when they when the planning board sent the um their proposal up last year and
they um eliminated all um offices everywhere on the first floor. The uh the retail and the property owners were were pretty concerned and upset and we got a lot of feedback and we decided now we're going to table this. So we moved
on and then we said you know what let's see if we can take all the good stuff that the planning board had already done a year ago um and improve upon it. So that's where that subcommittee that we now worked for a year doing that's how
this was a result. So we really were you know we really had uh very good intentions and I and I think like I said like Trent said nothing's perfect. Um but I do think that this is a bit of a shot in the arm that we need. We there's
something that Yeah. And sorry if I if I reference a kind of a vaccine but that that's kind of what what it is. It's a it's like a mini booster, right? Um, so there's something, you know, we we we've been we've been struggling for the last three years with
three different zoning officers and we have had very very inconsistent interpretations. And by law, those zoning officers, I'm not saying they're do they did anything wrong. I agreed with a lot of what they they um what they said, but their their hands are a
bit tied. in that one of the good things that I think the planning board and the council agreed upon is this ordinance gets rid of all those SIC codes. They're called sik codes codes and they're very very detailed. So this is not literal but you know a sick code can say well
you can have an architect's office but then you can't have an engineer's office in in the same building. It's like if you know the the the tenant changes. It's it was that antiquated. So when when the subcommittee started sitting down and we heard, you know, the the the
push back and hey, none of by the way, none of the the retail or the property owners had showed up up to that point to some of these meetings, but the but the residents did. So, you know, we were hearing from the residents all of a sudden the the retail and property owners said, "Hey, wait a minute. We don't like this." So, I'm glad they they
showed up. um even if it was at the last meeting, but they didn't show up. And and what they were what they were really saying was we've been struggling with the definition, you know, what we are uses. And when we started looking at the
whole analysis, we said, you know, the um the uses as far as what an office is, it can be anything. It can be a social services. We had naturally no intention of taking off suits at social services. The fact that it's not listed there individually is because we got rid of
all the sick codes. All offices are offices. So I guess the point is you can have a real not no offense t but a real estate office is not an active use. There's not many people going in and out in but a I said it I apologize but a
dentist office is has kind of a a pretty you know people are going in and out and in and out all day, right? So instead of letting the zoning officers analyze what each individual use is, let's across the board, an office is an office and then
if we want to do actually I know that Lois is leading, but one of the things Lois mentioned was one of one of my ideas was so we do an overlay in a few years and limit the locations of offices, you know, to you know, you can't have offices in the the main two
blocks of of of Flemington. that's a couple years away. Beggars can't be choosers right now. You know, if you build it, they will come. Meaning, the Union Hotel isn't guaranteed. Um, if you restrict it, they won't come. So, it's
really important that we look at the offices as equal. And honestly, I think this conversation was really good. I think everybody kind of I think a lot of people understood that concept. and and I got and I could hear a lot of positivity in the end with okay, we know
where you're coming from. So, I'm hoping that people understood that point of view there. I do want to correct a couple things that I didn't hear a lot of people talk about. Um, specifically, one of the other things that we learned was that as everybody heard, there's
problems with some buildings downtown. There isn't a lot of quality space for rent for for retail to rent. So, frankly, I want to hold the property owners to the fire and say, you know what, you're saying you can't rent you. There's been property owners that have
left their retail spaces empty for 20 years over there. You don't tell you can't find a renter. And some one of them is a very high quality. And then they come to us and go, "Oh, we can't fill our space, so give us a tax break." Uh-uh. So, I I want to hold the property
owners accountable. No offense to any property owners in the room, but it's it's really important. So, the point is the the the very very limited bulk standard changes that we proposed here, the small amounts of setback changes
that we've made, we we proposed the small amount of use defining that we've changed. For example, I know there's a few people that are concerned about uh firstf flooror uh housing in the DB district. The
intention of that was because as a planning board member for almost 20 years, we were granting variances for people that had an out building in the back. Kind of like I went to school in Savannah, like a carriage house in the back, auxiliary buildings in the back or
access from the back like the bread and culture site. We're issuing variances for those types of of uses on Main Street. Nobody wants to have their their business, their retail business in the back of the building, right? So, there
are these quirky long spaces and that's what the change of the setbacks are for. If a property owner is improving their property and a new use goes in, they have to go for site plan approval to the planning board. That is a check and
balance right there. They have to provide parking with the exception of retail. If it's a residence or whether it's a an office, they have to provide the parking per our existing ordinance. We're not allowing anybody not to park
off site. They had to prove that. Ask Lee Roth. We put him through the ringer when he was doing his approvals and we made sure that he had the parking that he needed for that site on site. we didn't let them park offsite. So I think
the the the um the really minor changes in the bulk standards when it comes to setbacks and is a little um confusing I know but it will give a little bit more and I think this was something that one
of the people uh set up said earlier it'll give people incentives to improve their buildings but also a little bit more flexibility. So maybe they're asking for two variances instead of five variances at the planning board. We want to make it not as intimidating to get
that variance. There are people that literally will not update their buildings because they don't want to go through that process. Um so I know I've been talking too long, but popups, I think there was a little bit of contusion on that. This is something that we're taking like the planning
board was the one that said, "Hey, you know, this is in the master plan. We want to codify it." And what we said is, "Yeah, that's great. That's and sitting on planning board for years, I would hear the I would see the council not even bother looking at the master plan and taking some of those
recommendations." This is something the the planning board said, "Hey, this is recommended and we recommend you do it." What we're saying in this revised ordinance is, "Yeah, we don't want it just on DB. We want it everywhere." And when we say popups, we don't necessarily mean an event. It's actually considered
an auxiliary use. So again, the zoning officers, three in the last three years, as I said, they're not going to give the the retail person who just opened on Main Street a hard time because he wanted to do both um classes and um you
know, retail sale. He could have gotten approval right off the bat. Um there was also very recently two um construct contractors on Main Street. Two showrooms, you know, like where you go in and they show you the kitchen and the
bathrooms. Two contractors. One guy filled out their his application as a real estate office because he was a developer. The other guy filled his zoning application out as a contractor. Same type of showroom. One was denied, one was accepted. I want to take that
that interpretation away from the zoning officer. So, because to be honest with you, our zoning officer is a pretty nice guy, but I think that he thinks he's he's a jerk. He's not. He's just reading the ordinance the way it's written. Um I don't I don't I think the pop-ups I
think I made clear. Um I don't know. I Let's see. Uh we talked about the nonprofits. We didn't remove that. Um, yeah. I I I can't really think of anything else that I want to say except
that I think overall the this ordinance is is a is a good thing. Um, and uh, you know, give it a chance to work um, and and give it a chance to perform. And ordinances are changed every day. And if
we feel like there's something that's just needs to be tweaked more, we can do that in the future. We want to restrict offices. No, we can do that, too. We can do anything. But I think it's it's farsighted to get in the weeds and say this little detail is not quite to what
we want and this one isn't, this one isn't. Let's see what happens. I think we are, you know, on a at a pivotal point right now. Let's make the best and um the highest and best use of all the properties in town.
Council President. Yeah. So, let me just start off by saying this whole ordinance came about because there was an ordinance that was not brought to the table that was happening in 2024 that
that was that was brought in 2024 that was extremely restrictive. It was very restrictive. It was restrictive for businesses. It was restrictive in terms of it was just restrictive. And at that point it was like we cannot we cannot
move forward as a town with these types of restrictions. You just can't. Here's the reality. So you know I look at what I've heard from everybody was housing housing and then I heard parking then I
heard um the businesses then you know it just it just piles on and piles on and piles on and at some point in time you have to do what you believe is the right thing. Let me speak to housing for a second because I think that's the biggest mism. No one wants a lot of
housing in. It's just not realistic. It's it's a one square mile. It's not realistic. And I this this this scared tactic of saying, "Okay, we got to talk about housing. We got to because it's going to be this." Let's put this
in real reality here. We have we have what's going on in Liberty Village. That's a done deal, right? That's not on Main Street. That's a done deal. That's that's housing. The second part of it is is that now you have the hotel coming on. Now listen, you can argue over the
height of the hotel. You can hire but all that, but the hotel that those that hotel in that apartment building revitalize Flemington. It will revitalize Flemington. It's not the end all, but it will revitalize it. When you
bring people in, your businesses are bought. When your businesses are bought, it impacts our taxes. You got to put it. This is all real, right? The other part of it is now you've got Cardinal that's coming on and you've got Captiva that's coming on. Those are on the far end of Main Street. Those are a reality. That's
going to happen. That's going to happen. So, I don't understand the the the the misnomer here about we don't want housing on Main Street. those things have already been in the works and they've been approved. So, that's happening. Now, if you're saying, "Do we
want more housing?" Absolutely not. Absolutely not. Do we want people to put up housing in the back of a building? Absolutely not. But there's again, there are checks and balances to this. So, even if someone wanted to do it, they've got to bring up the plans and those get
turned down at that point in time. So, there are there is a check and balance. I just don't like the scare tactic. I don't like it. It is not real. It is not fair and it's not the reality. So, I just want to make that very, very clear. I look, listen, I went to high school in
Princeton, New Jersey. When I go to Princeton now and I go to the Princeton shopping center, I am so blown away by what they've done to the shopping center. It's like, what the hell? So, no one wants to see that here. No one wants to see the Somerville, downtown
Somerville with the highrises and all that here. But do we need housing? Yes, you have to have housing. You have to have housing in order for things to work. Now, that doesn't mean they have to be skyscrapers. That doesn't mean
that they have to be town houses. They, you know, my thinking is why wouldn't you have just single family startup homes so people can afford to buy homes? And therefore, you've taken away that that that whole rental thing. But that's
not for us to say. That's for if young people want to go for that. So, we don't dictate the market. I have to I have news for you guys. When you get the AARP mailer in your thing, that tells you you are done.
You have no more say. So, that that you your record has been checked. And when you get it twice, it really pisses you off. Uh so so you know I I'm just making levity to this because I just again it's gone so far to the south which didn't
need to be. The other other part of it is I keep hearing about traffic. Listen, traffic grew when I've been here for almost 10 years and traffic grew in three years after I got here. Traffic is
just a natural thing. It's always going to be traffic. You got new people moving into the burl. I I can't remember the stat, but I know it's over it's got to be close to 550 or 600 people that have moved into the burl. So that means
you've got more cars, you've got whatever the case may be. And you are going to have more cars. Parking is always going to be issue because we don't have enough parking. Even no matter what you do, I keep saying this, there's still not enough parking.
Doesn't matter what you do, there's still not enough park because we're one square mile unless you do something different. It's again, it's just this it's like it's it's just like um Trent said, this Disney World mentality has
just got to it's just not realistic. When I hear the businesses say, for me to survive, this is what it takes. And for and for people to think that, oh, because I say it's only going to be retail. Okay, retail will come in. Well,
if that's the case, then why do we have so many empty stores? Why? Because you can have an office in there because it doesn't take a lot. When you talk about retail, it takes much more. And let's talk about a restaurant.
So, everybody's saying, "Well, I want a restaurant to come." Do you know how much money it is to convert a building to a restaurant? Think about just what's happening with with like dessert and um tea.
T-berries. I mean, it's an enormous amount of money. It doesn't happen that way. It just doesn't happen that way. And so, you've got to be a little bit realistic about what's going on. I don't understand the pop-ups at all. To me, that's beyond my comprehension.
What you are saying is we want to divide the town and say only things can happen on Main Street. But what about the shops of Flemington and what about Stangle? We're one square mile. You don't divide your you don't divide your businesses.
You don't. What you try to do is find a conduit to bring them all together. And somebody said that earlier and that is the indeed the case. It is indeed the case because it's reciprocal. Right? So if I go to main street then I will tend
to go to stangle and I will tend to this because that's what you want to do. Now that said we also have to be innovative enough to say how do we make that movement happen and is that a trolley? Is that a shuttle? Is that this? Is it that? You just have to be innovative.
It's not one answer. There's more than one answer. You know I come from a world again my my background is change management. I come from a world that you have a plan and you have a backup plan.
It is problem and potential problem and you have each one. So if this doesn't work, this automatically is put in and you don't have to run back around and start all over again. And so it just seems to me since I have been here, since I have been on this console and I
sat on the planning board and I have been in in the public eye and even with just walking down in the whole bit, I just see that people are just the town just to try to pivot is a huge thing.
It's like no one wants to pivot. It's fine to go down this road, but if something doesn't happen the right way, it's like, no, you said you're going to go down this road, so we can't do this. It's got to be this way because if you pivot a little bit, that means oh my god, that means change. That means
another change. And that's has got to stop. When we talked about when someone said we want to get why don't we have the community come together and well, you know what? I asked that same question because I would have thought the planning board would have done that as well.
That's not the onus is not that on don't put that onus on the council. The planning board came with Diddy's suggestion. So why didn't they reach out? They reached out to all everybody else. Why not reach out to them? And I am not putting the onus on them solely. I think we all share in the
responsibility. What I'm not going to do is let us set on this council's table alone. You know when you point a finger, you point one back at yourself. So we will accept that responsibility for that. But that does not mean that we don't have something good here. What it
means is that we have a start here. It doesn't mean that it's the end all and it's the best thing that happens since ice water. And Lord knows that if we don't do it that we'll go straight to hell in a rowboat without an or. That's not what this means. What it means is that we've got to start by starting and
we can't be restrictive and we've got to learn how to pivot. We can amend anything. We can amend anything. I am not a huge proponent of just putting things in for the sake of putting them in to put them in to put them in because it goes back
to we don't know what's going to happen. Everybody keeps pointing to courthouse square. Well, let me tell you something. If you sit down and talk to Jack Cus about courthouse square, he will be the first one to tell you this is not the end all and we don't know what's going
to happen. And so at the end of the day, you may if you think that those buildings are going to be full on the day he opens, you're sadly mistaken. That's going to take a period of time to ramp up. It's not going to happen within
a year. It may have it may take two years. It may take two and a half years, but it is a ramp up. It's just like any other thing. when Flint when when um Liberty Village is built, do you actually think that those all those town
houses are going to be full like that? Absolutely not. A there's a price point, right? B there may be people that just saying, "I don't really want a townhouse. I'm looking for a house." There's merit of things and and again, it goes back to young people. And let's
be very clear what I mean by young people. I am not talking about people from 18 to 30. What I'm talking about from people from 18 to 49 because again when a AP comes at 50, you're double. So
that's what I mean by young people. It is that people because you guys are pat yourself on the back. You're not there yet. That's all right. A a gonna catch her ass. Don't worry about but yeah catch up. Um but but but I think the bottom line is
I am in favor for this and and again it was not this was not done willy-nilly by any means and we did get input. the community will take ownership on. We definitely will. But everything else, we
really studied this hard and we got advice. And I actually went to other towns and asked other towns how I sat with mayors of other towns. I sat with mayors in in Lambertville and um I'm not going to go through Merida, but I sat
with a Merida and I said who had building and or doing some of the same things. So talk to me. Tell me what what you faced. Tell me what happened. Tell me what were the downfalls. And everyone said every single one of them said I am
telling you right now that people more there are going to be a group of people who are just not going to get it because they want to hold on to what is right now. They just want to hold on. And so the the challenge will
be is to get everyone to understand what the vision is and and to bring it on so that it is not so enormous but it's project by project and that's exactly what's happening right now is project by
project. So I really wanted to spell this housing thing. I think that's and I wish all these people had not left because I wanted to speak so bad and I was just like, "Oh, don't just slow your roll. Slow your roll." But I hope that this is printed paper. This housing
thing is blown out of proportion. It is absolutely not what I'm hearing. And that should just that that nonsense has to stop. It just that is not the narrative. That is not the narrative. The narrative really is is that we have three
developments that are coming on. We're concentrating on those three develops. No one's looking for anything else to come on in here. So that is, as Trent said, that's between 500 and 600 new new types of things. Now, what comes
in, that's still up for debate. Again, my drugs would be having starter homes on some of those on on some of those developments where they are just smaller homes that people can afford. That would be that would be the housing. But the other part of it is, think about it,
guys. I'm sorry and I'm not putting anybody down. You have to look at what our median income is in this in this town. And our median income is does it restricts people from buying homes. They
can rent, but they can't buy homes. Even if the rent is 2,000 or or 3,000 or $4,000, they can't come up with a down payment to even buy a home and then you've got to pay for taxes and then you've got to do this and you got to do
that. Now, when you get to historical homes, and we all live in historical homes, so we know what the deal is. That is not an easy thing. I am dealing with windows right now. And because my windows have occurred, I'm not even
going to go. But let's just say that it's upward of over $5,000 per window. So if I sell my home to a young, there's no way they can afford that. They can't afford to do that, right? So all I'm saying to you is that I want to change
the narrative. I'm hoping that you listen to me and we have changed the narrative to be we're not talking about housing. We're not, we understand that parking is not the thing yet because we don't understand what's going to happen. And then when it does happen, there is a
plan. Hopefully, there is a plan that something can be initiated just like that. The other thing is is that on the traffic, traffic is just a way of life. It is. It's never going to go away. It's always going to get worse. It's always going to get worse. And by the way,
since you have all this nonsense going on on 202 with the warehouses and where the hell do you think that traffic is going to come to? It's going to come here. That's the reality. It has nothing to do with the people who live here.
It's have it's the reality of people who are passing through here. And oh, by the way, we want people to come here, but we don't want people to drive here and add to the traffic because that's kind of what we're saying. But how the hell are they going to get
here? So if I I want people to pass through because I want them to park and get out of their car and walk and go to this restaurant and do this that the other. So you do want traffic to come through because that's how people you could drive through a town and I've traveled around the United States. I
literally have I've only missed three three states but other than that I've traveled just very small town and very large cities. Here's what I know. Anytime I drive to play, all I do is drive and go, "Oh, oh, oh, you know, stop here. I'm just, yeah, wait a
minute. This might be a cool town." Or if it's a very small town, I press my pedal very quickly because it's not good to be this driving through certain places. I mean, that's just the reality, right? I mean, I'm tell I'm being real. Anyway,
so bottom line is again, three things. A Uh the the traffic is a fact. It is what it is and we do want traffic coming through here because we're hoping that they'll stop and shop. B you can't be restrictive on on businesses because
businesses are suffering. Three is it's the only way businesses sustain itself is that you've got if the community cannot support the business, I have news for you. The businesses don't survive. and how many businesses we had go out of business because they can't survive because the community there's not enough
people in the community to support it. Three is on the housing. Stop it. Just stop it. Thank you. Uh council me. Oh wow. I've got I'm coming after a lot of lengthy speeches
here. So just a few takeaways. Um, first and foremost, I continuously heard about mold and bad buildings. And I I think as a council that tells me that we just have derailed landlords and they should perhaps be punished, I don't want to
incentivize any bad behavior. If it's been 20 years and they have not figured out any mole, then we need to condemn the building and stop messing around with who's going to fill it. Because what I've heard from business owners, nobody wants those buildings.
Nobody wants it. They They are absentee. They're not here. They obviously don't care. And we're not giving tax and service for people to continue to do the bad things. We know damn well they still aren't going to fix it. Um it's a long narrow lot. I'm never going to be for that. I think that and I'm looking at
one gentleman who had was here for uh Liberty Village who had a building going into his backyard. He bought his beautiful little home and he's sitting here tonight and it has always stuck with me that you don't want something
hanging over into your backyard, right? We do we need that level of density. Those of us that like live on the Maple Avenue, we're really tight, right? Broad Maple, we you know, kind of like two yards over and say hey to our neighbors and but we signed up for that, right? Um I don't really understand why we would
want to take a long narrow lot and people are saying, "Hey, that's never going to happen. Nobody wants more housing." Well, if we don't want that more housing, why don't we keep this in here? Like, why would we put things in this? And then say, well, we can just change it later. Do we do are you if
you're really passionate about it, then own it. Like, lean in, guys, on all of these things. These long narrow lots with buildings behind them. I just don't see the density. I've been on public works now for almost two years. I'm looking at sewer. I'm looking at water.
And everybody says that planning board can be a check or HPC can be a check. There's no guarantee that that's going to happen. I mean, look, I'm I'm one of those old people, okay? We bought our home here. I was in my early 40s. I'm Gen X. Um, the next people that come in,
they, you know, maybe we're going to die tomorrow. I don't know. My husband and I are 52 and 56. We're art heart attack age. Um, the person that's going to come in this year, well, hey, I mean, that's what you're saying, but what I'm saying is heart attack. take it to the extreme.
You don't know. You don't know. I know. I hear you. But you know what I'm saying, but but what I'm saying is is that for you don't know what the next council is going to look like. You don't know what the next planning board's going to look like. You don't know is there going to be an HPC. There are people that are sitting up here who've heard me really say what I
think about HPC. I got historic home because it was cool. But trust me, if I could tear everything off and make it look like a beautiful glass wall ovalless, to me, that's living, right? But I made the commitment to it. So, we're in this house for I don't know, 5
minutes, 10 years, 20 years, 30 years. I don't know. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. Very. Yeah. Short time there. But, um I I just think overall we could slow the process down a little bit. Um, what I heard tonight, I think that's the first time I've really heard the
residents like I'm playing board. Any anybody who's sat on it, you know, residents have comments to you. They see you out in shop, right? Wherever it is, you're up through town and they always have comments to on these types of things. Um, this is the first time that
I don't think I heard as many residents like stopping me and saying, "Well, why didn't we have a say in it?" And I'm not just saying about the council resolution. I'm talking about both the council resolution and the planning board these two different ways. I would
say let's slow our goal. If there's something that you're not really passionate about, whether it be on planning board or council and this ordinance or what was initially there, then pull it out. Take the time two weeks, pull it out. If if you're really saying like, well, nobody wants more
housing. Don't give it the opportunity. I'm all on board with what is already coming in and I know that I've spoken with Mr. Mr. Council councilman about this before. I love the idea of just down the street on Broad Street tiny homes. I'm not talking starter house.
I'm talking really unique cool start tiny homes a little almost like village within a village. That's a vision that I have and I know people who want to do it, but we aren't currently zoned that way and there's no guarantee that two or three years we'll be there's no
guarantee the master plan stays the same or this council stays the same. So as we're putting things out and we're saying well you know we don't have to do that we're just giving it there. What if they codify it? But what if your council in five years says that this is how it's going to be and you're going to deal it.
So, finally on parking, I just because I've sat into sat in on the parking committee with the mayor's ad hoc parking committee, I already have issues. Um, some of you live kind of like my neighborhood. Yeah. Um, school buses and things. Um,
we don't have anything to prevent that, right? We don't have anything that can prevent a school bus, a map truck being parked, whatever. Um, so let alone on that when you start saying we could potentially be impacting parking just for residents. Now, that's
a concern of mine. And then finally, parking or sorry, grandfathering in offices. I've often said that that's something that I would like to do is to have some sort of grandfathering in for current offices if they're in good condition. If we're talking about crap building, again, we
need to start talking about health issues, numbing them. What are we going to do to punish these lands? That's just unhealthy. Now, my here's my final final final median income, and we talked about that. Um, I know that the people, most
of the people that came in in the past 10 years, because my husband and I did, um, tend to be a little bit more global, uh, college educated. We came in buying our home with having the cash to pay for it all at once, but we held some back because we were told there were tax
benefits to it. I don't know that all of the income increase that's happened over maybe the past 10 to 15 years is still really shows. I'm not positive. But I know this the people who are going to probably buy the homes, Mr. Parker's house, my house, they're not going to be
young people. They're going to probably be people in their 40s or 50s. Maybe they're moving out of the city. Maybe they say, "Okay, I've had enough of the summit rat race and 50s are young." Okay. Yeah, I'm probably gonna live a 98. So, so, but they're going to meet people,
but they're gonna But when I'm saying they're not with your average 25 year old or 26 year old, it's not my parents world where you could buy a house in Rochester, New York for $25,000 brand new and pay cash in the late7s. We don't live in that world anymore. So, we
have to think about what will not only when you say young people, what's going to draw the next couple in their late 30s, early 40s to come in and buy our home. And I'm just not sure of high vent way to get there. So, those are all my comments. And again, the people I think
we need to my my preference would be if in the past we've done this with residents, we've had just just average Joe's like most of us have done. I don't own a business in the burrow. Um, and I will say this, I spend most of my
weekend shopping and partying and places like S. Not enough to do, right? Get the people like me and I know that there are others because I've got friends in the bro that go with me those other towns to shop and have lunch on a Saturday.
Get those a lot of those people to come in and have comment. But if we put it through now, there's no guarantee that any single one of the people up here is going to be up here in five years or six years. And that the next council isn't going to say, "Let's
just throw all of their crap out. Just throw it out." Sorry guys, there's a great barrel here. Go to my house. You done? That's it. Okay. Thank you. Um uh
[Music] what's up? I told everybody in my report that I was looking forward to listening. Um and I got to tell you, so I've been at this council stop for me six years.
And that was the first public hearing in those six years where I was like, "Wow, that was great. It's great." So I I just commend the community for for having something that's missing uh a reasonable measured
passionate albeit but um completely respectful conversation and I think if I was listening I was hearing people understand different points of view. So, one thing I I took note of is this
urgency in the voices of the people who spoke whether they were business owners or residents. So, to me that says something the the urgency in those voices. Um so, I did prepare some thoughts tonight
um to give at this particular juncture. Uh, but I I want to tell you guys, I I come here on these Mondays and so I'm a school teacher and I've done these studies and your typical teacher makes 1,00 roughly 1,500
decisions per day. Now, apparently only to be rivaled by another profession, the brain surgeon. So I come here on Monday some Mondays I get to say the pledge of allegiance twice you know it's
kind of cool book end right uh and I realize I'm coming from this situation where I I'm making all these decisions and I got to make some really important decisions as a councilman and I promised myself and my wife when I did this I said there I'm gonna come home every
night you'll put my head on that pillow and sleep soundly you will not hear me tossing and turning screaming night terrors at night bugging you in the middle like oh I don't know if I did the right thing and and I can say that I've always been content uh with my decisions and and I've been part of some big big
decisions here. Um and this one I think is a big one too. So I got to tell you I there's in those six years not a single person in this town has approached me called me emailed me and said something like I don't want a vibrant downtown.
Say no to good stuff. All right down with excitement. Nobody has ever said this to me. Okay. So, so that is just everybody is is here. We can tell that uh I believe the intent of this ordinance is to truly bring some activities to Main Street. My interpretation of the ordinance in its
current form is that it is bold and ambitious. Those are the adjectives I'd use for and maybe that is something Flemington has needed for a long time. But I cannot ignore the planning board's recommendations. For me, the words substantially inconsistent
carry considerable weight. And yes, I know that there can always be an argument against the planning board's findings, and this council has voted on things that have been found inconsistent with the master plan in the past, but this ordinance is not so simple uh as an
overlay. It it's a whole lot more than that. So, I look at this ordinance and well, this is a natural thing I do. It makes me think of a garden. Um, now following along with me here, just know that if we have this garden or
Flemington, uh, we've got some rich soil and some quality seeds. And we could just simply toss all these seeds into this garden, water it, and then watch everything grow. Uh, but you can't just toss a bunch of seeds and expect a perfectly lush, perfectly robust garden.
Our garden needs some tending. Yes, we should be cultivating an active downtown. Everybody agrees that and we're seeing signs of life. This growth is already sprouting with the major developments like Courthouse Square and Liberty Village. Uh we have already
planted the seeds for new business and a revitalized community. The market is telling us that there's a demand for growth and our role as a council should be to nurture this process. But I'm of the mind that our gardening technique should be more organic.
And I'm not sure that this ordinance or even the one previous does that. Yet. It's the important word here. Yet. To me, there are two minds that Flemington has regarding zoning. In one mind,
there's what some have characterized as a rigid onesizefits-all plan. On the other is this ordinance that if I'm interpreting correctly takes a more of a big bang approach to zoning and I wonder if this ordinance is going too big is it
too much all at once. Are we creating risks of unmanaged change? Is the answer to rigid planning an ordinance like this? Or is there a different path to this vibrant town that we want? So, let me be clear where my head is at at this
particular moment. I would recommend tableabling this ordinance to allow the council committee and the planning board and perhaps some of the folks that spoke out this evening to collaborate for a phase implementation
plan. There are some good ideas here. We heard some great stuff. There's some terrific things here. But I do not think that this ordinance in its current state, in its current form, is ready to be voted on this evening. And that's where I am.
And I got to tell you again, I heard the urgency in those voices. The spirit's there. The will is there. And I think I humbly ask my fellow council members to consider consider we
table this, we get to work, we get this done, then we have something that's going to be all around not perfect, but certainly something that most people are going to agree with. It's all right.
We like All right. And that's really all I have to say about it. Thank you. Thank you. Right. So, I'm just gonna keep mine a little bit short, but uh just because we own a local business here in Flemington,
sorry, my throat's really messed up. They're a little little karaoke over the weekend. Uh let me tell you though, uh owning a business is not as easy as my fellow business owners can tell you. Started back in 2001 and are still here after 24 years. saw Fountain at its peak uh
started at its peak with Liberty Village and the Union Motel and then when it died and now it's coming back. Cannot let it die again. We went from Broad Street, Turntable Junction and uh now happening on Main Street where the old or was you guys
ever saw or it was bad inside. Holy crap. It was beautiful. I didn't want to remember because it was such a pain in the butt just to renovate everything, the painting. Um, it was crazy. But yeah, you could tell. And hopefully you
guys are happy to see what we did with the front. You know, we took care of the patio. There wasn't a patio. We put a patio there. Put tables. We have like plants there. And, you know, it looks pretty nice out there, I'd say. Hopefully, you agree.
But um yeah, building was vacant for years. I remember my dad crying. Actually, this was crazy because after officially opening because he was so stressed out and I tell you that because uh he need there was bills to pay and he needed to open as quickly as possible.
This is the livelihood of a lot of people and some people don't see that. Just see, you know, we're business that's it, but we're also peeps. We live here in Fington. Stuff like that. And same thing with the popups. I didn't know that.
Sorry again. It's not good cuz we were bringing bagis to the restaurant and apparently that's a popup. That's the crazy part. I'm like how are we literally I'm just here to
say like also like for a restaurant if you want to maintain business we also got to create events. you know, could have good food, come back, but it's just the same thing over and over again. You want to do something, bring some type of like uh event to them, to the people, you
know, and um we're here for 24 years. I think think something good. We're doing something good. But cuz now we just got a food truck, too. And that's because, you know, with the business that we have, Main Street, we had to do
something different because it's getting hard to maintain the same type of business, you know. Um, yeah. And then, so moving on to um, also, I just think it's I'm seeing a lot of new faces in the restaurant. Every
morning I I'm a server. Uh, from 10:30 to 4:00, I see new people every time I'm working. And the office buildings are on Main Street. They bring business to the restaurant as well. Just like they were saying, another business on Main Street.
They get a couple office uh uh people from offices that are there to come out, buy their stuff. Uh for me, we get office parties. We get a lot to go take out orders and orders are big for the whole office. So from there, we benefit
from it as well. And a lot of people that are starting to live here, they don't know about us. They don't know about Funington as much. They just started getting here. And it's just exciting to see new faces cuz not saying I don't like seeing the current
faces, you know. I'm comfortable guys. I don't even know anything. Uh but it's good to see new people, you know. I like to talk. I'm a ser. I manage the restaurant as well. out there and just uh seeing people enjoy the food, the the ambiance and all that, you know, it's
just that was my thing. You know, I love love meeting new people and I just want to see them enjoy Fington the way I enjoy it as well. Um and lastly, one thing and then what I wanted to say also is like I did question about why keeping
offices on main street because I would like to see retail and all that, but then I was thinking about it like who's going to be on main street the offices there. I realize it while working customers that come are from the office. Yeah, those are my comments and I'll keep it short because
right well I guess um so here's where I'm on this. First of all, I completely agree with council long about tableling this and letting you go back to the discussion which was a planning board and a council subcommittee that wrote this um
had a lot of input to it which is really good um because it you know there's been a lot of comments made over the last few months from council president. They wanted to get this right. even want to get rushed. And I don't think it's right
either. And here's here's where I'm coming from. Right? So, I don't have a problem counter what some people think about renters in this town. They are my constituents and I will take care of them and protect them and help them any
way I can. People that don't live here yet, they're not my constituents. I don't know who they are. So, no, I don't care about anybody who doesn't live in this town. I care about the people who live in this town. When they move in, I'll care about them, too. And I have a problem with
apartments. I have a problem with more apartments. More. Flemington Burough has 63% of our entire housing stock are apartments. That is equivalent to Jersey
City. Our tax assessor has testified before this council that a town like ours in a county like ours should be between 25 and 27% apartments. We are at 63% right now. When the Union
Hotel project opens up with 205 apartments and the Spice Factory with 68, both are getting ready to go. We will be at 70% which is equivalent to we hawin and to hoboken we will be in the
top five most densely apartment populated towns in the state of New Jersey. So if nobody wants more housing council president then why did you put it in this ordinance? It's a simple question. If this was really about
helping the businesses and retail, I would be so on board. I have no problem with the popups. You know, I've really heard the passion about these and why they're so important to y'all. Like, I didn't know mariachis were considered a
popup. I totally agree. But what has really polluted the public on this and you can say whatever you want. When the ordinance subcommittee from the planning board met with Beth, she told us flat out that apartment buildings could be
built in these back lots. So why put in re put in apartments on first floors at all on Main Street? You could add more office uses. I'm not a big office fan. I'd rather have offices than more apartments. Let's just keep
pushing us up since till we're number one in the state because even though Liberty Village is putting in 117 town houses that are going to be market, they're going to be balanced out by Captiva at the Aguway store, which is
building 100 units on one acre, five stories high, fully approved by the planning board in 2021 or 2020. They're just waiting for D permits. So that's going to counter it. So we're still at 70%. Then you've got Cardinal, which is a
guitar board building. They don't have any planning board approvals. The owner flight out told me I can build a smaller building. I'd like to save that building. It's there. It's funky and it's cool and it's Flemington. Flight out told me he'll never sue us. We don't want that building. We don't have to have more
housing, folks. We don't have to have more housing there. All we have to do is tell that developer we'd rather put it out for another redevelopment project. all we have to do. So my problem is about why is it in here in the first place? Why? Because my like
I was raised in retail. My family had a business on main street where print and shaker is for 75 years. I worked in that store put me through college you know gave me a nice life when Flemington was in its heyday and Main
Street was nothing but stores. And by the way, in those days, commercial paid 54% of the taxes in this town in the year 2000. 54%. Now we're 23%. Okay.
We don't have because you have buildings that have No, I didn't interrupt you, Council President. Please don't interrupt me. Thank you. Okay. So I was raised in retail and what retail
needs around retail is more retail clustered more retail. We are always going to be the county seat of Hunter County seats. We don't have a river, you know, we don't have vistas. We have a courthouse that closes at 4:30 in the
afternoon. We have a county clerk's building that closes at 4:30 in the afternoon. We have a title search room, search room that closes at 4:30 in the afternoon. We have county administration buildings that close at 4:30 in the afternoon. And then we have the lawyers
that go to court and title searchers that use those buildings. And at 4:30 in the afternoon, Main Street goes dark in big chunks. Big chunks. And it's not going to change unless
we resone the offices. countries on the county. We're stuck with that and I don't want to lose them because there is foot traffic when they close that jail down that big sucking sound where a lot of people came to visit, you know, prisoners and family
and they sent the jail to another county and we lost sheriff's officers. All those people used to eat on Main Street and then the county sent a lot of their employees up the hill to Route 12. We lost a lot of foot traffic there, too.
We let lost a lot of county foot traffic with those changes and it really and that was all done also right around I don't know 2008 to 10 and it's a problem but retail needs more retail. It needs more retail to survive.
Nothing will hurt our current businesses more than if one day they wake up and somebody's putting in an 8 foot door so that they can have apartments because nothing stops that in our ordinances in non-historic buildings and even then the HBC only gets a say
you know this is cosmetic outside improvements it's a construction permit doesn't go to the planning board 8 foot door on main street that's all that's required to turn a first floor into an apartment building. I am not trying to scare anybody. These aren't my
words. I didn't write this ordinance, you know, but I did quiz Beth a lot about it on the ordinance subcommittee and she agreed and she also told this ordinance subcommittee in her words, quote, you know why that the outdoor power stools in the back housing for
housing seek. Quote unquote, that's what Beth said, housing for housing sake. Why put it in if nobody wants more housing? So if nobody wants more housing, let's take it out. Let's reintroduce them without it.
You know, maybe listen to Mr. Papers about what he said about making sure people have checks and balances at the planning board and keeping some of these uses as conditional, but get rid of the housing stuff. All it's done is have the businesses say, "Why don't you guys like this?" And the residents are like, "We don't want more
housing." And they're not wrong. And it is not scare tactics. And if you if you if you like think it is, I don't know why you think it is because three of you wrote this thing. So, you know, I just, you know, so I have problems with that
and I don't think that having the housing is business friendly and I don't think I think it was Tony who said something about about the deliveries. So, let's talk about our current ordinances. First of all, in 2022, by a recommendation
unanimously from the planning board to the council that then passed it unanimously, they changed the parking requirements for all commercial businesses on Main Street, not offices. And of course, we don't have residents, but all commercial businesses,
restaurants, retail establishments have zero parking requirements now. None. They don't have to provide a parking lot. That's how Tber's is opening with a very small parking lot. That's how Mexico opened with a very small parking lot. That's how Aunt Millies is building their their
area. So there's already no requirement to for them to supply parking. Even before that, because when I was growing up, not even that long ago, maybe 30 years ago, 20 years ago,
there was all kinds of trucks idling. There used to be a Roma truck idling all the time in front of Jack's Pizza parlor, blocking traffic, blocking people in who couldn't get out of parking spaces, blocking parking spaces so people couldn't park there. This town passed an ordinance that said wherever
it's possible, deliveries have to be in backs. They have to be in the rear. That's why you don't see deliveries on HP, folks. We have a couple of loading and loading places for the businesses around town that don't have that option. But right now, you know, behind all of New Market, Market Roast, all those
stores, trucks can get in there and they can make their deliveries. Amazon trucks behind Shaker can make deliveries. You know, we get rid of parking for buildings. We change these bulk rate standards. You are going to see idolling and amazing, which is why our traffic consultant said to the planning board,
"Nothing's going to kill revitalization of a town faster than blocking traffic and making it really hard for people to get in and park." So why put it in and make this complicated? That is not My dad wanted a parking lot. My dad
needed parking. My dad wanted more retail. That's what he wanted. Even competition down the street, another men's wear store. He wanted it because it all brought down traffic to Main Street. But you got to have the parking. You don't change those bulky standards.
I presented to the parking committee a couple weeks ago and I asked Chris Garcini to work with Beth to write an ordinance. These landlords need income. Let's figure out what their current uses are in their buildings, how much parking those uses really require and let them
annually put out leases for people to rent their actual parking spaces. like behind me market Tber Berries needs parking. they can rent six spaces that would say Tber's only or Barkley's only or the people of the Union Hotel or wherever
and let them get some income that way and let it be an annual lease and and so we're going to look at that I hope but it's gets I mean like if this goes through we may not even have that opportunity with the parking spaces you know so I don't see this as business
friendly as our retail establishments here because it compromises your parking and it compromises traffic flow and it takes away other retail and office opportunities because as Mr. Lit
said nothing's easier to put in than apartments. So again getting to this ordinance last week at our last meeting Councilwoman Angelart who had a critical
part in writing this ordinance made a speech. I had a professionally transcribed. This is her speech spoke for seven minutes. She mentioned this was she mentioned the word though resident.
This is for residents zero. She mentioned retail business is zero. She mentioned landlord and building owner 11 times. So if I talk that something is politically pandering, it's a little
pee. It is pandering to one constituency, the landlords. You know, she also said they need to be incentivized to clean up their buildings. A lot of our landlords are very good and a lot of them have sucked these buildings dry over the years,
taking every piece of rent they could get and never putting anything back into these buildings. I don't want to reward that. They can't afford to keep these buildings. They can't afford to fix them up. Let them sell it to somebody who can at whatever the market will bear them to sell it at. This is the list of the
owners on Main Street and the businesses. There are over 130 businesses retail. Some live in Flemington. Most live in Flemington County. Of all these businesses, 130 something businesses. This is just between, by the way, I'm only talking
about between Katner and William Street. There's 34 owners. That's it. I count one for Flemington. They're from Texas. They are from Pennsylvania.
lot in Pennsylvania. Lie around county, many in Middle Sex. They want to be part of our community. Robin says they want to be part of our community. Fix your freaking building and be part of our community. Don't suck it dry and take your money to Texas or Eastern
Pennsylvania. These are facts. Facts. I am not making this up. I'm not trying to scare anybody scare tactics. These are Councilwoman Angleart's words. 11 times mentioning landlords. These are the landlord rosters
um going all all your bu businesses or buildings who don't live around here. Again, some are very good and I don't want to take anything away from them, but not all of them are good. And we know that. We all know that because so many of the businesses in here gave
testimony up here about they couldn't find a good space. They stank of mold. They were rotting. They were decaying. They were this and they were that. So, you can't have it both ways. You can't say, "Oh, all these landlords want to be part of the community and you didn't,
you know, the planning board didn't go down." But, but then they're not because if you're part of the community, you love our community. You know, you all, every single person in this room I know loves. I heard y'all. Y'all love Flemington. Everybody up here loves Flemington. No doubt in my mind, even
though we disagree about this, everybody loves Flemington. I can't say that guy in Texas suck in a building dry. Sorry, you know, can't. So, you know,
I got a quote from Councilwoman Angle. Give it a chance. I got a quote from from Councilman Levit. There may be some minor consequence consequences. I got a quote from council president. We don't know what's going to happen. We can change it. Let's change it now.
You took that out of context. No, I didn't. No, you did take that out of context. But go ahead. You're finishing. You took that out of context. Go ahead, please. Why don't we change it now and get rid of the things that are the most controversial to the residents and it's also in my opinion, if the
retail owners, the business owners really think about it, they wouldn't want more. They won't want to lose their partner and they certainly don't want to lose the opportunity to have more retail or offices
or services around them. So take out what's the housing elements, the two housing elements, the bulk standards, and take out the apartments on the first floor and reintroduce it with those two things. or if you do what the council president said, send it back to the
planning board and work with the planning board to tweak it and make it a better ordinance. But I think that those things are the things that the residents here are objecting to. Um, and I object to as a resident. Um, I'm not
planning on pivoting. My family's been here for a hundred years. Not pivoting. I love Flemington. It is a charming, cute, quaint community. And you know, I'm hoping the Union Hotel does what we hope the Union Hotel does.
But here's the thing. I've been trying to get the council to purchase a piece of parking software to help the chief of police do parking in this town. It's on tonight. On tonight, not in consent to
buy a piece of $6,500 software so the chief can actually do the all that high school permitting on that side of town, West Street permitting. Right now it's all being done by paper. It's crazy. 2025 he's doing it by paper. Um this piece of software will grow with
the town. It can do other kinds of permitting. It can do visitor stuff. It can eventually if we ever need parking meters on Main Street, it can go right to that. You know, so for two years, the council president has
been saying, I'm data driven. I need to see what happens when the Union Hotel C opens before I'm willing to spend the money to buy that software. I'm data driven. But on this ordinance, he's not data driven. He's not willing to wait till the Union Hotel opens.
So many of you have said that, including the council president. So that's my piece. Okay, you're done. So here's the point. Here's the point. There's several things. I might You might be done, Marca. I'm not going to get into it. Here's my point. Yes, I am data driven.
No, we're not going to put out fires before the buy. You want to put out the fire a long time ago. I'm not even going to go down that road here. Let's stick to the facts. The housing is the housing. The point of it is you're making you're trying to scare people into the housing. Beth, could you please define because if you're telling
us that Beth has said dot dot, I want to hear Beth. Beth, can you just put that all in perspective in terms of setbacks and guts? Can you just put that in perspective, please? Sure. So the issue is uh in regard to the housing and the setbacks, I think all of that discussion
is centered on the DB district which for the public is is basically the uh commercial part of Main Street. It's the primary commercial district uh along that along that road. And so what this ordinance does, just so folks are clear, is in terms of the bulk standards, the
bulk standard that's I think relevant to this discussion is a change from of the uh minimum rear yard setback. So the distance that a building can be from the rear property line. Today it is 50 ft. It would propose to go down to 20 feet.
And it is also subject to a footnote in the table or a caveat that states that buildings which uh buildings may not exceed a height of 35 ft within 50 ft of the property line. So in terms of concerns regarding parking and loading,
I don't think that this footnote addresses that. But in terms of impact to residences that abut the business district. So if you're a single family home or or two family home and you back up to a business along Main Street, know that that undersized that reduced
stepback has a height limitation. So that if the building is 20 feet or 30 feet from your property line, it can't be the full height which is 40 feet unchanged. Instead, it has a limitation of just 35 ft. So, I just wanted to
state that. Um, in terms of the housing that folks are talking about today, the ordinance permits uh dwellings on the upper stories. What this ordinance would do would allow dwellings on the first floor subject to a few requirements. So,
the first uh the first requirement is that the residents can't base a public street. Uh so, it can't you can't take a first floor of a business on Main Street and just convert it to a residence. Uh the exception is that if you uh there's this 8 foot width that I heard
referenced during discussion. The exception is if you literally need a door because the entrance to the upstairs apartment is on main street. You can provide that. You don't need to go to the planning board and ask for a use variance for that. And it also uh provides for first floor residence for
lots that are either north of Cavar Street or south of William Street. So at the really the ends of Main Street, you could do first floor residences uh facing Main Street in those two areas. Um so those are the two changes
regarding the rear setback and the addition of housing uh additional uh permitted housing on the site. And so what that would allow for is um again you can have a reduced rear yard setback
but it it does not impact all of the other standards that are relevant to to that district. So for example it doesn't say that uh that you don't have to meet your parking requirements. It doesn't say that you don't have to meet your impervious cover standards or or any
other standard in place. applicants or developers would still have to meet those requirements or of course appear with the planning board and ask for relief and the planning board would review that and decide yes, decide no depending on the the application. um for
housing. It it would create some opportunity for uh for existing buildings to convert perhaps the most commonly perhaps the rear of the building to to apartments or to have an entrance to an apartment from the rear
certainly not the portion facing Main Street. And if you have a large lots, it it would uh allow for a a second second or however many buildings depending on what exists today for a residential use
uh on the first floor like but again it doesn't eliminate the parking requirement. It doesn't eliminate the uh the impervious cover requirements or other requirements that are uh set forth. And I also heard some concerns regarding uh how properties would comply
with their their loading requirements. So we have uh if you're a retail use, you're a restaurant, whatever the case may be, you do have a loading requirement. You've got to provide a space to get a a truck into the building. And so as I listed, uh it wouldn't the the reduced setback doesn't
eliminate the parking requirement or the uh the impervious cover requirement. but also does not uh eliminate the loading requirement. So to the extent that a property owner is seeking to expand their building and use that 20 foot step
back or maybe 25 foot step back, uh they're they may not need relief from that, but if they're unable to provide the loading, if they're unable to provide the parking or unable to meet the impervious cover, they would certainly need uh relief from that. And the planning board would do its job and
determine whether or not that was deserved. not deserved, but whether or not the application met the criteria for that item of Thank you. So, so I'm gonna go back. First of all, there's a couple comments. Just because you've lived here for a
hundred years does not mean you love Flemington. Excuse me. Let me follow. Um, does not mean that you love Flemington any more than the rest of us love. We paid the same taxes we paid. We we moved here because we had
I said everybody here let me finish. We all love. Please let me finish. Well, get me right. I said everybody loves. So the bottom line is is that because we all love Flemington. We're working towards Flemington. You don't get to say that because of this, this,
and this. The other thing I think it's wrong for you to try to call out Susan and here's her verbage and this is what that's not even necessary. The point of it is your point. If your point is about housing, just stick to that point. You don't need to keep firing shots at Susan
and Trent and D. It's not necessary. That's not who we are. The third thing is I'm going to go back to housing. That's why I had Beth explain the whole housing thing and the setback. Listen, no one is looking for density.
That is not what anybody's looking for. However, if you think and you these business owners told you this. If you think that businesses are going to attract more business just because okay, so we have a business. Okay, so they have business I'm going to run in.
That's not how it works in 2026. That's how it worked in 1960. 1970. It doesn't work that way now. I went to a a a seminar. It was a week-l long and it was
called Downtown Main Street America. Main Street America. And it was enlightening because it's exactly what we're talking about right now. It was from from cities around cities, small towns, you name it, from around this
country that disseminated in Philadelphia for one week talking about all these things, ordinances, this thing and that thing a little bit and how business is surviving and what makes making businesses go out. You are so out
outdated on this. That is absolutely not true and I would encourage you to go to the next one so that you can get updated. We are actually having um New Jersey um downtown New Jersey here in Flemington on October
23rd. All those mayors and council people and bids and all that will be here in this town to talk about just things like that. So again, I'm tired of the scare tactics that is and you are doing a scare tactic. It is a scare
tactic. The bottom line, no one wants density. No one wants density. However, there's two projects in the ship as sell. It's sell. It's done. It's been approved. It's done. What you're trying to do is on one of them is stop the
development completely. What we're saying is let's take a look and see what you can do differently. So, that goes back to starter homes as opposed to higher highs. That goes back to maybe it's this high and not this. No one's
asking for highrises. No one's asking for anything that's as big as the the um the current hotel. That's the bottom line. And I'm tired of you trying to scare people. It is a scare tactic. And stop. Stop. Please stop
trying to shoot Susan down and anybody else down that has a different I'm sorry. You made a whole speech in the beginning of this meeting under your comments that were very like pointed and quoted and whatever. So, I'm not going to stop. Okay. I'm not going to stop.
You know, words have excuse me. Words have meanings. I asked her not to make the speech. She made the speech. They It's her speech. Her ordinance. It's her speech. These are comments were made. I take copious notes of what people say. I don't have a
memory like you have, Tony, to misquote me when I said I know everybody in this room knows Plington. I know everybody up here loves Plington. What I said is my family's been here for 100 years and I love the charm of this community and I'm not going to pivot just because you moved here 10 years ago and you now
expect me to pivot. No, no, no, no, no. I'm going to fight for the charm of this community and I'm going to fight for what the residents want. One minute you say both, I don't want does anybody want more housing? No. Then you're telling me they're going to get more housing? I did not say that.
I said what I said. Let's be very clear and then then I want to stop. What I said was stop. Now this isn't discussion. We'll stop from the mayor. When you when you Marsha, don't yell at me. I'm not yelling at you. Yeah, you are. Don't over talk. You are not the mayor. Tell me you are the president.
Don't yell at me. Please don't tell me. But do not yell. I'm not Don't tell me when I stop. I chair the speaker. Okay. So here's what we're doing. What I said was I want to be very clear what I said. I said stop the scare taxes about housing. The point of it is is that we
have two projects going on right now. One is a project is that you just talked about and said that you really don't want to be developed. And I said what I said was is that that to me is a site that's up for grabs. and and what what
what we've put on a smaller house. That's what I said. It's Yes, because it's been approved. It's been approved. So, that means it's moving. That's what I was addressing. I just want to get it straight. You're talking about the guitar. Yes. That's been approved. We have a
redeveloper. The project has not been approved because the GDP has stopped it. So, we don't have to put anything there. We can we can reimagine the building. We can adapt it. We could use the go guitar building. we can put it out for another project. You know, we can do lots of
things as a council. Um that doesn't have to be housing. It could be merkantal. It could be whatever. So, you know, the bottom line is we're at 63% now. We're going to be at 70% apartments in six months. And where does it stop? Because you're putting in more
and opportunities. It is not a scare tactic. That did not deny that it could hold apartments. She actually affirmed it. So, we're there. So I don't know if you want to make a motion to table or if you want to make somebody wants to call the I'm sure there's a motion in a second. Okay.
So motion to table would be valid but you could also call okay. Wait a second. Let me let me get this clear. I want a motion and second to approve this.
Okay. What if I want to table it? Make a motion to table before this vote is done. That under two. All right. Then I am going a motion to table the ordinance. Further discussion and collaboration
and in a timely fashion. I will second that. It needs more time. Is there any discussion on the table motion? Okay. Can I have a roll call, please? Councilman orange. I'm voting to uh motion uh to table this
table. All right. No. Oh, no. All righty. Uh Counciloman, no. Councilwoman Fisara, yes. Councilman Levit, no. Council Vice President Lawrence, yes. Council President Parker,
no. Okay. Can I have a a roll call on the orders? Councilman Aras. Yes. Councilwoman Engelhart. Yes. Council. No. Councilman Levit. Yes.
Council Vice President. No. Council President. Yes. Carries. Still have some more business to go. So, we're on the regular agenda. Resolution 20256. resolution authorizing
the improvements of San Park house uh entities 32,000 $32,000 $890 motion please start is there a second any discussion this is this is the painting project
painting and replacing ally wood um roll please yes Yes. Councilwoman, yes. Yes. Council vice president. Yes. Council, yes.
Resolution 2025-157, resolution approving a contract with T2 Systems, Inc. of Indianapolis, Indiana for permit and enforcement services in amount not to exceed $11,239. Council President said he didn't want to just approve this one without having a second look at piece of software. The
parking committee did go back and talk to SDL. Um, we already own SPL uh software. We've met with their um uh vendor guy and basically we need two
licenses that would cost $15,000 over three years. And SDL is only does administrative work. It doesn't do parking meters. It doesn't grow. It doesn't change. It doesn't do anything else. SDL three-year contract which is
$11,239. That includes also two licenses, but it is extremely adaptive. So, it's $4,000 less than the company we already own uh with a lot of flexibility. Can I have a motion, please? Is there a second? Second.
Uh any discussion? Sorry, just clarify. This is T2 or this is the T2 software that came in. This is this is what you know Adrian and working on for a while.
It's a good thing. Yes. Yes. Council me. Yes. Yes. Council Le. Yes. Council Vice President. Yes. Council President Parker. Yes. Resolution 2025158 resolution authorizing the purchase of a Kabota
utility vehicle with Power Code under HCESC contract number. I'm not going to read this all. uh ac c36 nte not to exceed $22,38.39 a motion please.
Is there a second? Second discussion. What is this for? This one is approved in the budget for right? Yes. Please look at that. Council Harris, yes.
Yes. Yes. Yes. Vice President, yes. President, yes. Resolution 2025159, resolution authorizing the purchase of six knock boxes from the box company to exceed $12,79. Motion, please.
Is there a second? Second. Any discussion? What is this for? This is for town for the fire company. Right. I mean, I I know what a knocks box is for. I mean like where where are they putting them? I have no idea if he says he needs them. I just just
curious where they're putting. Yeah. Roll, please. Council Harris. Yes. Councilman Agelart. Yes. Council. Yes. Council Vice President Hall. Yes. Council President Park. I'm sorry. Resolution 2025160 certifying that all members of the governing body
of Flemingtonsboro Hunter County have reviewed at a minimum the sections of the 2024 annual audit entitled general comments and recommendations. I have a motion please move. Is there a second? Second. Any discussion? Roll call.
Yes. Yes. Yes. Love it. Yes. Vice President. Yes. Resolution 2025 161 corrective action plan for audit for year 2024. Do not ask what this is for because then
you lied when you pass resolution. So can I get a motion please? I'll move there. Second. Nobody's discussing this right? Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.
Vice President. Yes. Council President. Yes. Resolution 2025162 resolution authorizing the purchase of two sets of uh reticulated these are the reticulated yes rapid rectangular flash
it never gets it down cross talk system from lane link traffic technologies inc not to exceed $17,300 and that is for four of these lights two sets it's a much better price than quoted a year ago I think that
technology has come down in price and they are installable by RDPW. So, uh they install like a regular like a sign like a stop sign. Uh can I have a motion please? You got your baby.
Okay, fine. I move. I'll second. Okay. Any discussion? I'm so excited. So, these, just so everyone know, these are gonna go on uh Captain Street at the corner of Allen to help people cross the
sidewalk there because people coming down to speed like crazy and it's going to go down on Allen at North Main. Make it safe people get over on the other side of this phone. I'm sorry. I have one more.
You let the minutes reflect that I said and not. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Council vice president. Yes. We're up to public comment session number two. If anybody
wants to microphone or raise your hand. I'll ask a question. Do we still have a K9 unit after I need your name and address to the record, please? I'm not allowed to ask questions, so it never happened. Jeff came 54 Broad
Street. Well, okay. Uh, anybody else from the public? None. Payment of bills authorizing payment of bills in the amount of $2,137,8327. Motion, please. Yes.
Yes. [Music] We don't have an exe. I wanted to have an executive session. We need an executive session next meeting. I think it's going to go too late. So, uh move all in favor. Have a great day.
This is like old days.