It gets to be stable. There we go. Oh jeez. I'm getting there. I think I'd got the hang of it by now, but apparently not. All right, I'm going to call to order
this in-person public meeting of the planning board, zoning board of adjustment of um Flemington Burough, Tuesday, February 24th, 2026 at 7:06 p.m. Apologies for the late start. Um this inerson and
virtual meeting is called pursuant to the provisions of the Open Public Meetings Act. Both adequate and electronic notice of this in-person and virtual meeting has been provided by way of publication as required. Um in addition, the meeting was posted on the door of the burough of Flemington
Municipal Building located at 38 Park Avenue and any handicapped accessible entrances there too. Posted on the municipal website, presided to the municipal clerk and distributed to all persons of any requesting copies of the same. This meeting is being recorded
with both audio and video and may be rebroadcast. This meeting is a judicial proceeding. Any questions or comments must be limited to the issues that are relevant to what the board may legally consider in the decision and decor hearing must be maintained at all times.
Please rise as you are able for the flag salute. I >> allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. >> One nation under God, indivisible, with
liberty and justice for all. >> Thank you. We can hear you. It's very strange. >> Yeah, I switched it on, but I don't know. I had to set it up, not Carla. So, I must have done something in the wrong >> No, it's okay. I'm glad you're here.
But one day you're late. I'm here. I'm happy you're here. All right. Um, do you have a list of the roles? You could do a roll call for me. Oh, before we do that, let me introduce Kaitlyn. >> H O. Okay. >> Hoy, welcome. I'm so excited. Would you
mind taking the vote? Yes, please. I know. >> Here. Mr. >> Oh, he's excused because of >> Yes, >> she's there. She's on.
>> She just needs to unmute herself. Melissa, please. Just say it again. >> Here. There she is. Thank you, >> Mr. Ch. I think that was me. I'm here. It's very hard to hear.
>> All right. >> Yes. >> Mr. Apple. >> Uh here. If you bring the mic closer to her. >> Yeah. This mic super close. Hopefully it's on. >> Okay. >> What do you want me to do?
>> No. No. cuz >> the sound's looking is working. >> Yeah, we're going out to them, but we couldn't hear them this way. So, we've I I basically put this up volume and then we can just hear them through this. >> I'll figure this out.
>> I know. I don't know what I did. Yeah. >> Yeah. And all the um >> professional >> professional Miss Kazinski is here. >> All those are um excused because there's nothing um on the agenda for them.
>> All right. >> Yes. >> Yes. Save the public money by not having them sit through listening to our Twitter. Um all right. Thank you. So uh first item on the agenda as always is an
period for public comments. This is for comments on the anything that is not on the current agenda please. If anybody has any comments please on Zoom use the raise hand feature. There is nobody in the room.
So seeing none I'll move on to item two. May comments please. My only comment is that um the two ordinances that came before the planning board at the last meeting for consistency review were just passed last night.
>> Can the mayor hold the the mic closer to her? It's hard for us to hear. >> Yeah. >> That's connected here. >> Okay. >> Is that better, Cara? >> It's a little better. >> So, >> there's something else. Thank you. there
both. >> Well, nice switch. >> There you go. Perfect. Whatever you did, that's great. >> She just leaned in. >> I just leaned in. We haven't fixed this problem. Sorry. Turned out. >> So, both of them. >> It's the mic from your laptop. I I have
a feeling that's what it is that we're hearing because we can hear Jeff and Karen really well, >> but we still have to do the resolutions tonight. >> But Cara gave >> and discussed it with Chrisini,
the burough attorney, that it was okay to proceed that way. >> Okay. Did you mute that? Mute this. >> Okay. And and you can Can the remote folks hear >> but they can't speak? >> Cara tried talking.
>> You Yeah. Can you hear us? >> Okay, that's fixed. >> Perfect. >> We could at least hear them. We just couldn't. I'm sorry. >> Dennis, start talking. >> Can you hear me? And that is why
too much money is >> I told something >> tech somebody turned it down on you. >> So >> so having said all that I missed all your comments >> again. I was so fascinated. >> Yes, that's it. So, we still have to do
the resolutions tonight. That's it. >> But we did the resolutions. >> No, we haven't approved the resolutions. >> Said we were >> and I didn't print it out because it they have the wrong date on it. So, um
as it said, I didn't sign it yet when I'm not supposed to. But the one that got sent through and I had a quick look at didn't it at the very end. It was like last September or something. And I and I apologize. I only noticed
that just there. Um, okay. Let's move on to item three. In the meantime, council comments still saying hello to you earlier. Sorry. >> That's fine. Um, I just repeating what the mayor said. the the two ordinance has moved forward last night. And I'd
just add that um there was appreciation for the planning board's um input there um regarding the um offsite parking. >> Okay, great. Thank you. And hopefully our speed of moving that along too and getting it all back to you. I appreciate
that, too. All right. Um item four, HPC comments. I know Mr. Sh has some comments today for us. >> Yes. So, um, we had we had a meeting. We approved a new porch at 36 East Main Street. I I forwarded these BCC to the
planning board. And we also approved a rebuild of the two family property at 20 and 22 East Main Street. That was the property that burned down a year ago. Um, we had some um conditions, but that
was approved also. And then we're definitely hosting a house and garden tour on Saturday, June 6th from 11:00 to 5:00. If anyone's interested in helping out, let me know. You get a free ticket if you help out. Um, and later on the agenda, we'll talk about the um property
list where we just wanted to review um minor changes, not changing the historic district or anything. It's It's more corrections and updating some designations around Courthouse Square. That's it for me.
>> Right. Thanks, Dennis. Um item five. Do we have any professional reports? Um carry on. >> I'm on my end. >> All right. Great. Good to know. Um All right. Item six, approval of the minutes. January 27. January the 27th.
Regular minutes. They were distributed. Anybody got any comments, questions, additions, and amendments to make on those? Can I get a motion to approve those, please? >> All right. So, Hannah Whitesman, >> Schlanker,
>> would you mind call please, Caitlyn? >> Mayor Carol, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Englehart, >> yes. >> Mr. Campion's not present. Miss Gifin, >> yes. Miss Whitesman. >> Yes.
>> Miss Swingle. >> Yes. >> Mr. Shob. >> Yes. >> Mr. Schlender. >> Yes. >> Mr. Dsha. >> Yes. >> Mr. Eckle. >> Yes.
>> And that's enough. That's good. That's nine. >> Okay. Chair, before you move on, um since the environmental commission is still not on this agenda until the bylaws are approved, um in conjunction with Dennis's announcement with the
House tours, I just want to add that the environmental commission and maybe Melissa wants to talk about this is going to hold a cleanup day um focusing on the properties that are going to be on the house tour.
Melissa, you wanna >> Yeah, we're tentatively aiming for the Saturday. I want to say it's the last weekend in May because the house tours the first weekend in June. So, we're going to aim for that Saturday with the rain of that
Sunday. Our goal is to try to clean up the public areas around the houses and as well as the trolley stops. So, >> you're you're accepting volunteers to help. >> Yes. As it gets closer, it'll be a more
formal announcement. We got some things to work out, but yes. >> So, that's the 30th or the 31st, not Memorial Day weekend. >> Correct. >> Right. Got it. >> Thank you. >> All right. Um, so the minutes were approved, right? We've got that. Um, and
we go on to item seven is the public hearing for Spark Power Wash LLC application 202502. That is adjourned. >> We get it. Did we get the um >> March 10th? Yes, that was the request. >> They just submitted some new stuff,
right? I think we saw that >> they did. Yep. It should have come to everyone by way of a link. There's a number of documents. Um, so may take a little while to review before the next meeting. I don't remember Stephen. >> No, I think just came through. I just
saw it like we have to look at that when you get into your email. Um something came in from distribution. >> But it's enough but it's enough time for the professional review, right?
>> I mean, I'm assuming it's at least 10 days before. Um again, it's a significant amount. you'd have to ask Bob and and Jim and Jay. Um, you know, and if they need more time, they'll let us know as we get closer. I can certainly check in with them. I'll make
a note after this meeting. I'll shoot around an email. And, uh, Caitlyn, just really quickly, um, welcome. We're so very happy you're here. and uh let's touch base so we can kind of talk about, you know, with everybody, you know, putting these on the on the uh website
and sending them out and and all that kind of stuff. I know you're, you know, well verssed in what you need to do. Um but if you have any questions about how the bureau does it, I'm happy to help. >> Thank you. >> Yeah, that just came through this morning. So, we can talk to coach. she
can help me like how to send it through to everybody who soon as you can on your email and try and get that done tomorrow and and like I said car as often any help you need >> great please feel free
um all right so um having said that that is adjourned to that date no further notice required um item 8 resolution 20269 um was distributed I Memorializing consistency in the
determination of the ordinance, the council ordinances as listed on the agenda. Anybody got any queries with the memorialization resolution? >> Karen, I saw the date that needs to be changed. I'll change that after tonight's meeting and recirculate for
execution. >> Thanks. It was just the one at the very end, right? I was like, it off. I'm like, it's pointless because there's no date on it. So, >> and for that matter, we might want to change the secretary to the actual new secretary. >> Yes. >> Yep. Since she's here, I could certainly do that.
>> And we did do a resolution for her. Officially resolved. >> I think we did that at the last meeting, didn't we? >> Yeah. Yeah. So, she's official. Yeah. >> Yep. And >> then with those with those changes, I'll move.
Who was the second? >> Whitesman. >> Dash and Whitesman. >> Got it. Okay. >> Mayor Cara. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Englehart. >> Yes. >> Miss Gifin. >> Yes.
>> Miss Whitesman. >> Yes. >> Miss Swingle. >> Yes. >> Mr. Shopee. >> Yes. >> Mr. Schlander. >> Yes. >> Mr. Dhner. >> Yes. Mr. Eckle.
>> And that's actually it. Don, I don't think you were there. Um, and neither was Mr. >> Hayne or Mr. Pavers. So, I think we're okay just with Jeff being the last vote. >> Okay. >> Thank you.
>> Okay. Um, Madame Chair, um, and board, we finally late this afternoon were able to finalize, uh, some questions concerning the St. Mag's resolution. Um, I did not get a chance to circulate it to everybody. The applicants council is
on right now. Um, all of our professionals have reviewed and and agreed on the language. Um, but you haven't seen it yet. So, um, it's up to you. I I have it prepared. We could certainly take a vote and adopt it or we could put it on for the next agenda um
for memorialization. Uh so you guys can take a look. It's up to you. >> Right. I have a council is actually has his hand raised. Is it appropriate for him to comment next time? >> Oh, absolutely. Yep. >> Do I need to step down or sit here?
>> You just listen. >> Mr. Carol, I promoted you to be able to talk. I believe you want you wanted to make a comment. >> Yes. Uh, hi everyone. Uh, Ted Carroll, attorney in Flemington, New Jersey with the Grubenberg Law Office here on behalf
of the applicant. Uh, with respect to the resolution before the board tonight, my office has no further comment. >> Okay. Um, but as we haven't seen the resolution, I feel more comfortable if we vote on this next time or does everybody feel that we can just vote on
memorializing that? >> I would rather see it on but but Mr. Carol, is there any reason why if we if we move next meeting, it's going to be a problem for your client, I guess, would be the only question. >> Yeah, that's a great question. Thank you. Um the only thing is just for the
interest of time in uh you know securing the the approval of by memorializing the resolution and the extension of the period in which you know the 45day period in which anybody could appeal and then finally my
client would go to to secure the other necessary approvals for the construction. That's the only uh concern that I would have in mind. We just lost car. >> Uhhuh. >> All right. Just a minute. Mr. Carol, we
just lost Cara on here, so I don't feel >> Yeah, that's okay. I I don't mind waiting. >> The thing must have dropped. Um, having said heard what you said though, I to I I don't feel comfortable.
>> I don't >> and we haven't seen the wording just in case. So we will >> I I understand that that is just you know what my concern would be on behalf of my client. The board can choose >> however they uh however they want to take
>> right but just know it will definitely be on the next agenda. >> Of course >> by the time the world thaws out. >> Oh gosh. Whatever. I don't know. I'm not much hope. >> That's what I'm saying. day of a long beach. >> It's not Friday. >> I took a photo of my backyard on Sunday
morning on purpose to say there was grass here for like one day. >> One day I saw it. It's gone, I guess. Um All right. Let me just I'm just messaging her to say um where are you? We lost you. >> We want you back. She can call me.
>> She can absolutely call. >> Yeah, just like she got kicked off. She's trying to get back in. is on the head. Come on. Here we go. Here she is. Pop up any moment. >> I'm so sorry. >> Car, turn your video off. It'll work
better. I'm on the phone. Yeah. >> Oh, there you are. >> Not that we don't want to see you, but apparently might work better. >> Yeah, maybe I'll try that. Okay, >> there we go. All right.
>> There's a consensus that we're going to wait to read the um resolution. What was that? I'm sorry. >> I said there's a consensus to wait so that we can all see the resolution rather than voting on it tonight. >> That's fine. I heard the end of of uh
Karen's dialogue with Ted. So that that's fine. I'll circulate that as soon as we get off and everybody could take a look at it. >> Perfect. Thank you very much. Having said that, we'll move on to um
where to Dion. >> I'm going to move on to item nine, which very simply just says vote on bylaws. That wasn't quite what I meant it to say, but there it is. It is in writing. Um so now the bylaws were distributed and we had a discussion last meeting. Didn't
everything that we got discussed last time. Does anybody have any further discussion on those or are you um are we okay with getting this moving um finally voted on? Now
these if I remember rightly these but it just when we say just vote on bylaws it's it's just it's a majority of the um current board isn't it that that we can um move them with >> that is that is correct and I did make
the changes that were discussed at the last meeting um you know and wanted to obviously give everyone the opport and I did recirculate it too so um if if there is any more dialogue or any other questions, you know, we can certainly do that. Um, and just so you know, in the
meantime, we don't have to necessarily wait for the bylaws to be revised in order to include another section on our agenda. Um, this isn't an ordinance, so you know, the board and the chair still has the discretion to amend the agenda
accordingly to, you know, add whatever it likes. Um, >> I did, uh, incorporate the changes. Um the list of agenda items in the bylaws uh mirrors what we have on our agenda
right now. Adding in environmental commission um and just incorporating mayor and council comments under I think it's governing body comments um along with the other changes. >> I thought we were going to leave mayor and counsel as they as they were.
>> Yep. That's what we talked about last night. >> Yeah. And they are there. They're just under governing body a mayor b council. So they're there. It's just under. So if you want me to change it back, I could do that, too. >> I don't I don't care. I just think it's
kind of silly. >> Anybody else have a strong feeling about it? Just leave it as it is or put it as governing body with the two subsets? >> Anybody else? >> Technically, the mayor is not the governing body. The mayor is the mayor and the governing body is the governing body. So it's it's grammatically incorrect.
>> That is true. And burial form of government. >> Burough form of government. Right. >> So why don't we just keep it as mayor comments and council comments and leave it alone. >> Yeah. >> So that is fine. >> It ain't broke. Don't fix it. >> Yeah. >> Broke. >> And as car said, we'll move forward with
using that format for the next time. It was it's added in the environmental commission basically that we forgot to do and but the bylaw is also added in some things about timing and things like that. Just look some little tweaks. >> There's a couple of things in here where like I may just because I'm looking at it on the iPad. I just want to make sure
Cara like uh just one that I noticed was like and this might be because of track changes and stuff like that. Like if I look between section five and six, there's a par parenthetical. It says add a new notice requirements under public meeting section five on page eight. And
then >> and then there's another thing after where am I? There's some other one oh the beginning of section 13 order of presentation dawn to work on revising. Like are those is that just because of the way I'm looking at it or is that
actually or are those actually do we need to clean those up? Well, I I can tell you that the part about the notice that I is okay as is because of how we referenced the Open Public Meetings Act and that's basically covers everything
at this point. So, I could take out that add and new notice requirements. Last time we met as a uh collective group, um I think there were going to be some more changes to section 13. I don't know if there still needs to be if anybody feels
that's necessary. Um it may have just been to section out each one of the subsections so it's a little more easily read. But when Kim reformats I can have her do that so we don't really have to make any other changes um to that
section if that's okay with everybody. >> Yeah. I just want to make sure the committee wasn't envisioning something else there that we didn't get to yet. That's all. Again, I don't think so. I think that that section was just, you know, he was going to work on that just to section it out, but I I don't want to
speak for him. Don's on, so I'll I'll let him him discuss. >> Um, yeah, I think that was the intention, but we never got to it. But for the sake of time, I think we should proceed with the current version.
>> But we can clean it up and make it look pretty, right, without it being another revote, right, Cara? >> Right. Absolutely. >> That was the intention anyway because there's, you know, in the red line it it's not lined up perfectly. I'll make that change taking out governing body
comments and just leaving it as mayor and counsel. Um, and I even have a note there reletter accordingly. So, yeah, when she does that, we'll just have her clean up that as well. >> Okay. So, with those bracketed removals, the tide just tidying up.
>> Yeah, this is Yeah, this I mean this this is this is formatting nonsense. It's nothing serious. That's substantive. >> Then um going to get a motion to um >> gosh approve.
>> Oh wait, there's there is just I'm sorry. I caught caught one thing. Caught one thing. Sorry. >> Wait. >> Article article 2 section 7 just says acting secretary with a comma. I think we need to like there was some
language there I'm sure at some point that comes out of the ML that acting secretary. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. That's was that empty. >> You know why? I think that might have been because we wanted to have a
discussion about whether or not we even wanted one. I mean, you have the ability to appoint a board member to serve as acting secretary. Um, we haven't really done that in the past since we have the position as a formal position in the
burrow. Um, so that could just come out in its entirety, >> but we did. We did, Cara. We did when um when when uh Eileen originally left us and we didn't have anybody. Melissa
Swingle stepped in to sign documents for us. >> That that is true. We did that by way of just our appointment. We didn't do it in Well, true. That that was out of necessity. And you're absolutely right. You're absolutely right. >> But but let me ask this. If we remove it
here from the bylaws, we're still allowed to on an ad hoc basis. >> Correct. Which is which is what we had done in the past. Yep. >> Okay. >> So, so leaving it here would would Okay. So, we've got appointment of officers here in article 2 section, I'm sorry,
article section whatever this is with seven. Um, >> so if we take it out, we we can still appoint somebody as we need them. If we put it in, it means we're going to have to elect an acting secretary, which I don't think was our intention. >> No. our intention. >> Why don't we do this? Why don't we leave
it in? And I'll say to be appointed by the board as and if necessary. >> Okay, we can, but I mean it could also just take both mine out because it's allow for under ML, right? >> Correct. >> Yeah, I think that was the intention.
Just take it out, leave it more flexible. >> All right. So then that comes out and then um under section five admin secretary duties um do we want to just put as directed by the board and the MLUL?
>> I'm sorry. What which article? >> So in the same spot above acting chairperson it's again this is why the formatting is a little off. It says section five administrative secretary duties. It there's just three words but nothing else. So I think that we do need to appoint we do need to have it file
like as you said >> and we have that previously in section two >> right so if we have it in pre in section two >> this is just duties >> oh this is just the duties of that person okay
this >> I think it was when the board was going through this they wanted to have a separate duty section for each one. So, that's where this kind of came out and I think we just really never got around to expanding on what that would be. Um, and
and you know, at least from a an admin secretary situation, I mean, I think you you do want to leave that open and flexible because you want to be able to establish what it they are and the MLUL establishes certain things. So,
um I I think it's fine to leave it open-ended and general, but it's up to you. >> What was the what was the line you said before? >> As directed by the board and required by the >> MOL. >> Yeah,
there does seem to be a few um little bits like that though. Can we feel more comfortable if we can? We I know I hate to put this off again. >> I completely agree with tidy it up completely. >> Can How's this? Can we get Yeah. Can we get Can we get the formatting cleaned
up, >> please? >> And then recirculate one more time for us to see it formatted, right? Because that'll I think that'll highlight if there's problems. >> And that's fine. And maybe if everybody on the committee could take another look too so we've got some other sets of of
eyes on it. Um, you know, with everybody and and just kind of report back to me ahead of time if there was something that was missed that we talked about. Um, and then I'll reformat it, circulate it to everybody and uh reformat it. So,
let's just be clear. leave the red line, but just reformat it so like everything lines up properly and and all of that is done. Correct. >> So, so I'm gonna I'm gonna Can I make a suggestion? Send it. >> And I do apologize. We did this as a
Google doc. That's never been my strong point. It's been my first experience with it. So, I think that's probably part of the reason why it's a little more disjointed than a track change document. >> Track change is is much easier. Much easier. Much easier. If
>> I could ask, could you clean it up? Send us the red line, but also send a second file which hides the red line and just a clean copy of the final proposed >> one so that we can see it and that may be an easy way to find if there's any
small little glitches like this. >> Perfect. >> Yeah, thanks Car. I appreciate that. We'll do that. >> Yep. No problem. We can still amend the agenda to add then you can move forward with that as me and without delaying. >> All right. Thank you guys.
>> Just quick question that last time we talked just with the sign stuff. What what is that? What do we leave off with that? >> You mean >> we were gonna we were just going to um >> mute it. >> The sign stuff we were >> What do you mean by the sign? the sign
committee when it when like say we approved the sign just so the rest of the board so that the secretary is going to email that out to blind CC everybody >> when it's all right so the board knows report on it yeah >> yeah not >> you weren't going to have a report
>> no because that's fair with the email after >> that's not like the environmental commission that's like that's committee of this just come in that's true yeah all Right. Everybody else good? >> Yep.
>> Excellent. Let's move on then. Dennis is a big moment. Um item 10 discussion I've written. I don't know whether we need to do a vote. I'm not quite sure what we what we actually need to do for your process to move forward, but Dennis, could you introduce um what what you need?
>> Sure. >> Sure. Just just to give everyone a little background. Um the Hunter County got a grant last year to update the historical property inventory for the county. The last time it was done was
1979. And so um they came looking for volunteers. Um and then the quantity of properties in 1979 that were on the inventory were 381. So they came looking for people that
were going to go around and take pictures of each of the properties that were on the inventory. There were four people that worked that. Um once we were done with that, we said, you know what, it doesn't cover all of the significant
and contributing properties that are on our historic list. um we have 557 that are significant or contributing. So we said let's do the other 180. There
were 180 that were excluded. We said you know what let's let's do that so we can say we did everything and we did all that. There's really one person that did most of it but um that was done. So all of the significant contributing
properties that are on a list got included except one one resident did not want to be included. So um so we did all that. When you're doing that, you're you're putting in the address and everything. We identified there were
some corrections that need to be made. nothing to the the district boundary, none of that. But there were some properties either the address was wrong or some of the properties were demolished. And so I can share the list.
There's probably 20 items that I can go through really quick. Um but when we had brought it up, um Beth at the time had said I think that the planning board just wanted to see especially around Cordau Square. There's a couple properties that are now demolished like
Flemington First. So that's listed on the the property. Also the hotel which is historic but the designation is now significant but also um I think it's hotel non-contributing because of the
new part in the back. So I can share the the list. There's just highlighted rows that I can go through real quick if you'd like. But we want to just post it on our website. The listing that's out there is old and all we want to do is update
what's on there. So if someone looked at it, they're looking at the current listing. >> How would you like >> Yeah. >> How does how did the resident whose house is designated on our list refused to be on the list?
>> So yeah, that's a good question. Originally, people got postcards in the mail. The county had mailed out. I know I got it and I filled it out. So, the county mailed out postcards. Um, and you would go online and fill in
and take pictures of your property. Um, but you could also submit that you did not want to be included. Um after that was out maybe a week or two they decided they were not going to do that. So that's when they they wanted volunteers
to do the work. So that person that didn't want to be on it they had already gone on and said we don't want to be included in the inventory. So it was one person that had but that's how it happened Marsha. Um it you because
otherwise we were just walking up in front of the houses taking pictures. You know we had some people come out and ask you know what are you doing? Um they didn't have problems with it. Generally if people were outside their house we would go back. We wouldn't do it while
while they were there but um so that's how that one they had submitted in advance of the county going a different route. But what does that do to our official list that they are in it? >> No, no, they just they just didn't want to be part of the county effort. That's
all it was. They just said, "I don't want to be part of the inventory effort." They're still on the list. They're on our list. >> Am I Am I right in thinking that you you basically done two things here? you've submitted information to the Huntington County
um inventory that they asked to be updated and they didn't want to do the work of sending postcards out. You guys did it instead. So that you submitting that to the county, >> but in doing that, you've noticed that our property list is incorrect and needs to be updated from our Is that right? So
that's the bit you're asking us to do. >> People send their county is is their business on on their list, right? But in terms of our list to our district, >> ch you just want to tidy up the list
>> to correct address the properties that were incorrectly addressed and remove some that have now been demolished. >> So >> that's right, >> Cara, my question for you is in terms of when we do that, does that need anything
more formal than us just saying, "Okay, that's great. The list's updated." or do we need to do anything? It's not changing the map of the district, but there is a list associated with it that needs to be updated. >> Yeah. So, Beth and I I pulled my information from the end of last year.
Beth and I had talked about this and we came up with four separate um actions I guess changes to the list. Um we her thought was and I tend to concur don't need to be part of this
quote unquote public process because they're not part of the historic map or the historic um element per se. Changes meaning corrections of an address, things of that nature. Um, we also agreed that the process didn't
seem to be necessary to go through if we're just identifying a demolish site and therefore removing it from the from the list because that's not technically a designation. Where we had a question was situations where um there's already
been a designation and we're amending the designation. And the reason for you know that pause let's say is there is a section of the um ordinance that talks
about amendments to historic landmark or historic district designations which shall be made in the same manner as they were adopted. So the mindset being if we needed a process hearing you
know whatever the procedure is in order to designate something as um contributing then it may be necessary to do that to designate it as significant just by way of example. Um I'd like to
get I don't know if anything has happened or any thoughts have changed since we had that dialogue the end of last year. I'd like to check with Jim and just see his thoughts, but that to me would be the only circumstance under which we would have to take any other
action. And I'm truly hoping that we can avoid doing that and look at this in a different way. But I I really would like to run that past Jim and and get his thoughts. >> Right. But and D's question is are there any such properties like that? You're not change are you changing from? So the
hotel the hotel >> Yeah. So the hotel was significant contributing uh that's 7074 Main Street. Now we're saying it's significant non-contributing historic and contemporary because of the new hotel.
That's John Hatch, you know. So that was the main one that and that's when we talked about it previously it was let's just talk about the ones with Courthouse Square. Um then on Spring Street there's two properties that were demolished and
it's just listing those as demolished. So um there's nothing really um that that's changing other than some corrections. Um and so we're hoping that we can get this thing um you know this is from like
October of last year. >> Quick quick question. the the corrections you made on that map with the exception of the courthouse um the new hotel by saying it's non-contributing also it it's based on
the already approved map right from September of last year >> it's like the map already reflected a contributed property property it's just that the itself >> exactly the map >> you're absolutely right the map
>> already approved all as it's it's really just correcting the listing >> the list. That's all it is. The map there's no change to the map. >> Well, again, it's not except for that one, I think, because correcting the list to reflect
>> corrections to addresses or removing some because they've been demolished. Again, that's why I want to run this past Jim and and see if he's still of the same thought process that Beth was because changing of a designation
and from what Dennis had just said, significant uh contributing to, you know, the whatever else it was that you said for the hotel, that is different than just changing the list. That's technically changing an amendment to a
designation. Well, if the designation was already approved in the map, then I would argue that is nothing more than an administrative update to the it's not actually a change. It's it's just was an inaccuracy. Now, if you look at like,
for example, the vacant lot on Church Street, 19 Church Street, the site was vacant for the longest time. Now, it was approved. Um, shouldn't it be maybe part of that process of approval that we we now create the designation or do we have
to go back through like that became vacant with no designation now it's non-contributing contemporary and the only other changes I see is Brown Street um being demolished I mean
>> and that's >> yeah that's that's because of uh the Liberty Village those those two that were um as part of that redevelopment. That's what that one is that address. >> So for car from from Cara's point, if
she can check that down, it's like a D a change of the hotel designation. Check that with Jim and whether that might be just the only one that needs something different, but the rest should sail through fine. If if and if he says that
one doesn't need anything either, can the list just be updated car without any further public anything, we can just update it and change it. >> That's certainly the goal. I mean, it's it's it's very obvious that this should go through and is, you know, I don't
want to say not a big deal, but it's it's making it accurate, but again, we're kind of we're shoehorned in with the language of the ordinance. So, and this is, like I said, the last time this was discussed, this is how Beth had
interpreted it, and that's what I have here in an email. So, I just want to talk to Jim and, you know, see if he agrees or or if we have some flexibility, which I hope we do. >> Jeff has a question for you. >> Yeah. Just so and this is the other
thing because several of these parcels were connected with with the with courthouse square redevelopment area and the Liberty Village redevelopment area in the redevelopment plans adopted by council and the redeveloper agreement but mostly the plans I know for sure
there was discussion of historic preservation issues around courthouse square. I don't know what the language was in the Liberty Village one. She don't remember but like there may be the language because those had hearings and they were adopted and there was a process that the language is in the redevelopment plan. This may solve the
problem on those parcels. So you might want to check the the language in in both of those redevelopment plans. Meaning, Jeff, that >> was there was a public process already to to to deal with the fact that parcels
on Brown Street had been listed are now demolished because that was part of the plan for Liberty Village. >> I know on that one, the HPC had responded on that that we had acknowledged that those buildings that building was going to be knocked down.
So, I know we had responded um during that review acknowledging that that building was going to be knocked down. >> What I'm saying is the redevelopment plans themselves may include because those were both public hearings, they may include adequate language to have
satisfied the public process that even if we have to go that route, it may have already been done. >> Yeah, >> I'll take a look, Jeff. >> All right. So, thanks. So car you and Jim can just confirm that and >> and then and then let us know how if there's anything else we need to do to
to process that really. It sounds like maybe we don't have to do anything more formal than just >> you know moving moving forward to avoid this problem in the future. we should be looking to during those public hearings to uh Dennis's point that we should we
should be um designating that at the time of site plan approval um at the public process. Now they may not match exactly what the designation labels are used in the map but they should um certainly dem demolition is already there
>> you want change or demolishment. Yeah. >> Right. And even with a HPC approval for a vacant lot now becoming temporary contemporary, maybe in that resolution we quantify it there. So again, we're not having to go a second time for a
public hearing for a vacant lot going to contemporary or vice versa. But I see with Carara's point is if certainly if you're taking a contemp um contemporary property and making significant where it's got potentially negative impact to the homeowner then obviously there needs
to be some public due justice public um >> in that case I don't think that's happening in this case for sure >> it's not it's not so you know that's another way of looking at it if you're downgrading something it's got no negative impact to the homeowner so does
it require a you know, a public hearing or not. >> I guess that's your third condition. >> Well, it was it was an issue that we felt, but because it wasn't currently included on the on the map because the the introduction of the new map had been
delayed, we were it was allowed to be taken down without anything happening. If the map that we put through had been in place before that decision was made, it would not have been allowed to be demolished. >> Right? >> So, that's the important point. You can't just downgrade ones after when they come through. It's not just a
matter of the resolution saying it. It can't happen because the HPC required, >> right? >> Yeah. You have to look at the procedures that are in there. It's a little more involved than just addressing it at the planning board level because there does need to be review by the HPC. But, you
know, to Don's point, if it's raised as an issue during a hearing, you know, maybe there is some way that when we get an HPC report and they have their discussion on it, they could put in there, you know, we recommend that it be
downgraded, upgraded, whatever. So then they've satisfied that portion. >> Um, and there's some way we can incorporate. I mean, it's worth looking at. um you know so we're not in this situation and constantly >> making changes that require this
extensive process um you know after the fact. So it's it's definitely worth looking at I I think. >> Yeah, absolutely. And other other than the ones with the redevelopment agreements change those processes in some ways because they they were
encapsulated within those redevelopment because it changed the HPC buildings in the >> this is where this is where the language of the plans make sense because >> the language in the redevelopment plans were in well I believe all the way down
the road but like if it doesn't there was the Union Hotel had some very explicit language about HP DC review >> and that was part of what the governing body had adopted >> and so that that's why I'm saying like that but I don't know if that supersedes
the other sections of the ordinance or not in terms of historic designation. That's why Carrie's got to talk to Jim about this. >> Sure. Yeah. I'm just I'm just >> I don't think it did because the governing body >> removed HPC's
uh review of the plan, but Shipo still required it >> to come down to >> Uhhuh. That's what I'm saying. So, I don't know. >> And there was still the historic guidelines were still in that master in that redevelopment plan. But I'm also speaking just in general of all site
plans and all reviews, right? So, we're avoiding >> this, you know, I'm not just talking about redevelopment. Um, it may be maybe maybe an adjustment to the ordinance, so we're a little bit more flexible in that regard. I mean, certainly a change in >> flexible. I mean, it's already in there.
We My point I was trying to make was that the redevelopment group is something special because it it changes. >> Yeah. But we don't get that all the time. Every other building in town is covered by the HPC ordinances and everything that was set up and what what needs to be done in terms of their requirements
and ship. So >> that's covered. We don't need to be changing anything. We need to remember to in the public >> that's not that's not the plan make sure that they we we think about if if there's if that might be a possibility. It's just something for us all to remember to include in our public
hearing question >> and for the HPC review of a development application. >> Yeah. Yeah. That's a part of it. Like my like my house is not my house is not significant. It's just but it's contributing because it's in the digital on Main Street, right? If I wanted to, I don't know, put put a 10-story petition on the top of my house, which is never
going to happen, but whatever. Like it would >> change the district. It would have to get HBC approval. We just make sure that that process would include, >> right? >> Yeah. So that and that that is just something to remember the future. It shouldn't it it it doesn't affect what
we need to do with this list now. I just I'd like so regard what we want to do with this list in now that Dennis's team have put together is car and Jim are going to review it make sure whether we need to do anything different with those properties we talked about and then let us know how we then can incorporate the
changes to the list formally what what the process needs to be. >> It's just simple and saying yes change the list here it is. So just a question is you know regarding how do we handle it in the future um how do we if we decide that we're
going to ask that question as part of that review process how do we ensure it happens like is there >> I'm just going to take back to the HPC that when we're making comments if for some reason it was changing the designation to include that in the
comments back to the planning board >> would that work? >> Yep. >> Yeah. put it right in the resolution. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, we'll >> and it's going to be rare, but but we'll make that part of our process. >> Yeah. >> Well, and again, let's let's look
detailed at, you know, if Jim and I come down that that change does require compliance with the ordinance, then how do we make the HPC's consideration of a application and recommendations via the
memo we get compliant with that process? um you know, does it have to be at a public hearing that the public's uh attending? Can it be by a smaller group? Like, you know, and I'm just picking things out of the air, but I think it's
a good idea to address it, but if we're going to avoid the need for future action, let's make sure that it complies with all the requirements that are in the ordinance, >> right? And historic preservation is this a public hearing. the the applicants there. So, it's a good fluid organic way
of of handling this so we don't have it in the future. That's that's what I'm but there's instances wait a minute there's ones where they come to us but then the planning board also asks us for HPC
input. So, they would not be going to an HPC meeting. we would provide input and then that would be the other vehicle too. Right. >> Right. But you also make reviews to plan applications today. So it still works. You know during the review of the site
plan application you say um HPC's recommendation is that the consideration is that this property moves from significant to non-contributing historical contemporary. Right. Um so it still works. I'm just thinking of how we can be a little bit more efficient, you
know, as a as a local state government. We're not wasting time going back and forth in those lists. >> Cara, is it a requirement that an HPC member be on the planning board by the by ordinances? >> Yes.
>> Okay. >> Cover them. >> All right. Then it's covered. We don't need to put it in our checklist. Well, when we have a public hearing, Dennis is on the planning board and he make sure that you the issue and we make sure it's discussed. >> Yeah. If if a building it only um is on the list.
>> Yeah. I I think though we're going around in circles here >> because what we're saying is there's never a situation where the HPC is not given an opportunity to review one of at least at this point. We've come a long way, but there's never a situation where
the HBC doesn't have the opportunity to review one of our applications and make comments. Same as the Environmental Commission. What we're talking about is if when that happens, the recommendation either through Don or Malo um
uh uh is that we make the change in the designation. and Jim and I figure out that this public hearing process has to occur with the commission in order to make that designation. Then what would need to
happen is when they review an application that the planning board is sending to them, that action would need to take place during one of their public meetings, not just in a memo. That's that's what I'm getting at. So, you
know, it wouldn't be it wouldn't be enough um you know, just for Dennis to come here and say, "Oh, this is our recommendation." Because that wouldn't if it if it just came from him and wasn't the result of a public meeting in accordance with the ordinance, that
wouldn't be sufficient. If it is, then that's great. I'm just saying we have to make sure that that procedure happens and isn't just a recommendation from uh you know, a dentist during a meeting. Does that make sense?
>> Correct. That's what I was >> We can get there. Let's get the answer to the question first. >> Yeah. Thank you. >> We can get there and then you'll you'll let me know then. >> Yep. Absolutely. I'll I'll let everybody know and then if we have I have a feeling we may have a question or two,
Dennis. So, we'll reach back out. >> Okay. Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you. All right, thank you everybody. Um, let's move on to item 11, chair items. Um, the only one I want to raise is I just wanted to check I know Jim's not
on, but um, the housing element um, committee, do you have a date to meet? >> We've I think we finally said we were on a date about two hours ago. It'll be uh, >> went through everyone's availability and we found one date. >> One date, one time. >> Okay. >> So, it's March 6 at 9:00 am.
>> Okay. >> Um, >> thank you. So, and I think I've got one hour. So, Bruno meetings maybe. >> Yeah. With all the dates and times that Jim sent out, we have >> one. >> All right. Well, you got one. That's
awesome. Thank you. Look forward to hearing about that when you're ready. All right. So, um let's move. Unless anybody has anything else they want to raise up. The only thing I just wanted just to to put out there is that I'm um I know we've got Spark is on the 10th.
On the 24th, >> I I may not be here the 24th, just so you know. >> Okay. >> Um and if I am, it'll be remote. >> Okay. >> On that note, I will not be here March 24th. >> Oh, God forbid. Check that out. >> This is why I'm bringing it up.
>> Well, yeah, we have quite a lot of alternates now. So, hopefully one of those will meet up. Was a meeting that you were gonna miss? >> Uh the 10th. >> Okay. I think we should be all right. >> Marching his um I'll add in chair it. I kind of did
it ad hoc earlier, but welcome Caitlyn. Very excited everyone. Um Caitlyn Caitlyn has also agreed to um our report. We're going to work on that. Maybe Cara we can um help um Caitlyn with that report we have to do. to pull together
>> the year end end of year report. >> Yep. For sure. >> Talked earlier. We'll work on if you can assist her with that also. And also I realize what we didn't do is an updated members PB members list, contact list.
So, um, I'll send you the old one and we'll update that because then we can get you on it when you get all formally in it and got we know what the address is so that you have everybody's contact info. Um, so Mark, can you make sure to send that to Caitlyn as well? Would you
get her staff yours the new member? Um, but we can make sure this be all up and running. Um, and everyone remember when we do have Caitlyn's information, >> she's available after office hours. So,
just send it and she will respond as she's able when she's able. But we're very excited to have you on board. >> So, at the moment, you don't have an email address for me to send it to you. >> Um, but I guess as soon as you get it, if you want to just let me know and then I'll send it to you. I also have to get my email set up. I'm having some issue
there, but we'll get >> Please do. I know when you first do it there's that authenticator thing like oh yeah we had to do something for it takes over your phone and destroys everything else you have >> good on the one mail right
>> like I can't put it on my >> no you guys are making authenticated >> so you know my problem now is I just got a Zoom invitation I accepted it but on what count where's the calendar >> you know what I mean like I I can't find it now.
>> I'm just racing out >> what calendar I'm going to use. >> Very excited for >> Well, anybody else that technologically savvy can tell me what why why I can't get a number of like outstanding emails that are open on it. I don't know. I I need that and I I have to go look for
it. >> Please tell me please. Yeah, I'll give a donation to fireworks or something if somebody can help me out with >> um anybody else one extra thing items. Yeah. Okay.
>> Yeah, I I did forget to mention at my at the council comments that um there we have we've been doing real good with our newsletter. So, if anybody from the planning board has any >> Karen got an invitation for to send in or >> I'm sure you did and I'm just I'm just
stressing that publicly, you know, to anybody. >> Planning date again? >> Um, March 6. >> Okay. Anybody got an idea what they want me to write about, I'll write. No problem. >> Yeah. You know, and if you want to work on something with Karen, um, happy to help or or do that. But like I said, if anybody has any ideas, let's
>> say I have a topic I can talk about. >> I have no doubt. >> It's a stupid topic. >> Well, like I said, you know, it's tough with planning board. It's a little dry. So, you know, it can't be general public. You want to spice it up a little bit and get get their
attention, right? So, >> let's tell them that we're gonna, you know, tear down Paradise and put the whole parking lot there. jungle. >> Now, if it was a video, um, we had the music thing that people would click on,
that would be Gosh, talk about >> You know what? Maybe that's actually a fun title for um, you know, a newsletter article. Maybe we talk about the offsite parking, you know. Um, >> I don't think that would be the parking.
>> I don't think that is a >> I'm just making jokes. That's certainly not for >> if anybody missed anything. Mark six, please. >> All right. Thank you. Quick reminder. Um item 12 bills. We don't have them here because I just like reviewed them. I
didn't I don't think those So those Oh, I'm sorry. >> I take um issue with one of the bills. >> I went through them for not PB seems to be getting mixed up these days. So hopefully >> it's bill number invoice number 6405.
There's several items on there that show >> well that's all corsini stuff right again that got put out as I wrote on that that whole one is council that's the whole PO >> on that but in um in the other in the other one for um traffic >> that's mixed up too there were like
three items for us and two items for council in that one. So that's if you can speak to her name is she or Bill invoices and Liz and here's three letters.
>> Um >> what's the number associated with the traffic >> purchase order? Yes. >> Yeah. Like the first three items on the PO I think were were two.
>> No, that's the next one behind that one. I think >> it doesn't matter. >> I just can't pull it up right now. >> Right. If you wanna I'll see it when I >> um
right so the first purchasers for the frames that's all good. So on 193 that's all PB that's old PB and then for purchase order 203 that's old council and then purchase
order 207 is of BB that's cleave >> no the one is is the one that's >> oh no it's McDonald >> no there we go yes So to 193
the yeah just the JJ is it JJ central and bless wellness are ours and then the two parking committee ones are council. So I wrote that on here inside I wrote council and council only invoices which can let
know that one. Yeah. Hopefully we can get um >> So, we're not going to vote on the bills. >> We're going to vote on the bills. >> We have to vote on them so they can be paid though, don't we? >> You have to actually pay. Well, I've
>> You can audit. You can >> You can audit the planning board's bills. Right. >> Assuming that they're accurate and just not do anything with regard to the ones you were provided that belong to council. >> Right. >> Okay. I'm good with that. >> Does everyone feel comfortable with my
marking up which one was which? >> Yes. >> Perfect. Thank you. Do we need to >> I'll move. >> I'll second. >> Mayor Carol. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Anglehart. >> Yes. >> Miss Gifin. >> Yes. >> Miss Whitesman.
>> Yes. Miss Swingle, >> yes. >> Mr. Shopee, >> yes. >> Mr. Schlinger, >> yes. >> Mr. Dma, >> yes. >> Mr. Eckle. >> Uh, yes.
>> Okay. >> Thank you. >> All right. Item 13, car. Do we have to go into executive session tonight? >> Am I doing that? >> Yay. >> Yay. >> All right. Item 14, adjourn. Anybody want to move to a motion? >> That's all in favor?
>> I >> thank you very much everybody. >> Thanks. >> Take care. >> Karen, if you wouldn't mind giving Caitlyn my information. That way we can reach out until, you know, before she gets an email. >> Absolutely. Okay. Thank you. >> Perfect. Thanks everybody. Have a good
night. >> Good night.