WEBVTT

METADATA
Video-Count: 1
Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=hHFQ87tSmdc

Part: 1

1
00:00:05.759 --> 00:00:22.640
Good evening everyone. Uh this is the Tuesday, July 7th, 2026 regular meeting of the Flemington Burough Planning Board. This inerson and virtual meeting is called pursuant to the updated provisions of the Open Public Meetings Act. Both adequate and electronic notice of this inerson and virtual meeting has

2
00:00:22.640 --> 00:00:38.399
been provided by way of publication in Mon Academy Democrat and Pourier News newspapers beginning in January 2026. In addition, notice of the meeting was posted on the door of the rural Flemington municipal building here, 13th Park Avenue, and any handicap accessible entrances to two, posted on the

3
00:00:38.399 --> 00:00:54.399
municipal website as per the new OPMA requirements provided to the municipal clerk and distributed to all persons if any requested copies of same. This meeting is being recorded with both audio and video and may be broadcast. This meeting is a judicial proceeding. Any questions or comments must be limited to the issues relevant to what

4
00:00:54.399 --> 00:01:10.400
the board may legally consider in reaching a decision and to form appropriate a judicial hearing must be maintained at all times. Ask everyone please rise as you're able for the flag salute. Pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the

5
00:01:10.400 --> 00:01:27.680
republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Focus. >> Mayor Carol, >> Mr. Campion >> here.

6
00:01:27.680 --> 00:01:44.320
>> Council Vice President Angelhart >> here. >> Mr. Dashman >> here. >> Miss Gifin >> here. >> Mr. Schlanganger >> here. >> Mr. Scho >> here. >> Miss Swingle

7
00:01:44.320 --> 00:02:01.040
>> here. >> Miss Whitesman >> here. Mr. Hayne >> here. >> Mr. Apple >> Mr. Pers >> here. >> Attorney Kazinski >> here. >> Engineer Clerico >> here. >> Planner Kyle

8
00:02:01.040 --> 00:02:15.360
>> here. >> Engineer Traman >> here. >> Thank you. >> Item one on the agenda as always is a period for public comments for items not currently before the board. If any member of the public wishes to speak, please raise your hand on Zoom or in the

9
00:02:15.360 --> 00:02:38.160
room here. Seeing none, item two, mayor's comments. >> I don't have any today. Thank you. >> Thank you, mayor. C. Item three, council comments. >> Don't either. Thank you. >> Thank you. HBC comments. Dennis, >> I don't have anything. We haven't had a meeting since the last planning board

10
00:02:38.160 --> 00:02:52.400
meeting. >> Fantastic. Item five, Melissa, Environmental Commission. >> Save. We haven't had a meeting last meeting. >> Happy ports. All right. Um, item six, professional reports. Cara,

11
00:02:52.400 --> 00:03:09.680
>> um, I do not have anything further for you at this point. Um, I will at the next meeting >> in terms of the escrow, correct? Okay. >> Uh, Bob, do you have anything? >> No. >> Jay, do you have anything? >> Nothing for me. >> Jim, not we'll have we'll have for the next meeting in master plan and update

12
00:03:09.680 --> 00:03:24.159
on the and everything else. >> Correct. >> Okay. Um, >> uh, item seven on the agenda is approval of minutes from our last meeting on June 23rd. Those were previously circulated, uh, to the board. Can I get a motion in a second on the minutes?

13
00:03:24.159 --> 00:03:48.879
>> Approve. >> Sorry. Uh, any discussion, clarification, or corrections on the minutes? Please call the RO. >> Mayor Carol. Yes, >> Mr. Campion. >> Yes, >> Council Vice President Angelhart. >> Yes,

14
00:03:48.879 --> 00:04:05.840
>> Mr. Dhna. >> Yes, >> Miss Gifin. >> Yes, >> Mr. Schlanganger. >> Yes, >> Mr. Sh. >> Yes, >> Miss Swingle. >> Yes, >> Miss Weissman. >> Yes. Thank you. Item eight on the agenda

15
00:04:05.840 --> 00:04:21.919
is resolution memorializing action in application 202502 block 49 lot 6 forwash LLC that was circulated to members of the board that's been uh our professionals have reviewed it applicants have reviewed it

16
00:04:21.919 --> 00:04:38.080
>> we have made multiple multiple revisions everybody is in agreement that what you have for you accurately represents the school >> can I get a motion and a second one got a second. >> Second.

17
00:04:38.080 --> 00:05:05.680
>> Thank you. Any discussion on the resolution? >> Oh, yeah. We have we have the resolution of who's eligible to vote. Correct. It should be the people who are eligible to vote. >> So, Do you have resolution?

18
00:05:05.680 --> 00:05:52.479
>> I do. Um, wait. Did you vote? Did you vote on the on the application? Is it >> believe so? But I'm not 100%. Yes. >> Yeah. Okay. I'm sorry.

19
00:05:52.479 --> 00:06:08.240
>> I'll withdraw. I'll withdraw the second versions of this. Okay. >> But let's let's um >> he still have to vote. >> Yeah. So, yes, he well eligible to vote are those who voted for correct the for the approval. So,

20
00:06:08.240 --> 00:06:24.600
>> Whites made the motion. Joshua made the second to approve the application itself. Campion said no. He voted uh did not vote in the affirmative. He cannot vote. So, that's what I have. And

21
00:06:29.199 --> 00:06:49.800
was too. >> I just did too and Susan did too. >> I know that is >> this was on April 28th. So >> yeah 28

22
00:06:52.720 --> 00:07:17.039
day looking 623 >> 628 >> no 428 voted um on the first part voted

23
00:07:17.039 --> 00:07:32.520
>> okay >> okay so who else who else voted >> champion whitesman and shower dash and sabers. >> Okay. So those angle motion in consequ

24
00:07:39.360 --> 00:07:59.039
So is there any further discussion on or questions on the uh resolution? So from that list is all >> yes vice president. >> Yes. >> Mr. Dashna.

25
00:07:59.039 --> 00:08:20.479
>> Yes. >> Miss Gifin did not. She's not on the list. Well, >> I'm not eligible. >> Mr. Schwanger. I'm sorry. Yes,

26
00:08:20.479 --> 00:08:37.200
it went out. Sorry. >> Yes, >> Mr. Sch. >> Yes. Yes. Can you hear me? >> Yes. Thank you. >> Okay, >> Mr. Hayne. >> Yes, >> Mr. Eckle.

27
00:08:37.200 --> 00:08:52.640
>> Not here, right? Sorry. Mr. Papers. >> Yes. >> Thank you. >> Perfect. Thanks, >> yes. I my >> the copy the copy that circulated only had the motion in the second and the oppos didn't have >> absent ineligible. >> That's what I had up to. Yep. I'll clean

28
00:08:52.640 --> 00:09:07.519
everything up and we'll put the voting in there and I'll circulate it for >> signature. Okay. >> And that's why because I wanted to circulate the red line. Everybody would see the changes and everything that was made. So I'll fix it. >> Great. Okay. Item nine on this evening's

29
00:09:07.519 --> 00:09:24.760
agenda is a public hearing. River Crossing YMCA block 15 lot 5 64 Caper Street sometimes call the pool. So um like we uh we could have the council come forward

30
00:09:25.600 --> 00:09:41.440
item item nine or 10 >> n I don't know which version of the agenda you're looking at >> probably changed recently. >> Perfect. Thank you so much. >> You're welcome. >> You're here for the Y. Yes, that's you are up.

31
00:09:41.440 --> 00:09:57.440
>> I I will I will say there was just for the there was a previous version of the agenda just so I can put this out there on the record. I was going to do this under chair items, but just for clarification, there was a prior request by attorneys representing Captiva to

32
00:09:57.440 --> 00:10:14.480
request extension. They send us a letter today saying that they withdraw their request but maintain their rights under the MLUL for any other things that they might be entitled to. So we we confirm that they are not on the agenda. They are not seeking an extension. So they

33
00:10:14.480 --> 00:10:30.800
well they're we have nothing to do for them. So that's why the version. >> Oh no it's okay. >> Uh so good evening members. If you do me a favor and click on the video on just the video part of the Zoom and don't touch the audio because the microphone

34
00:10:30.800 --> 00:10:48.959
will grab you short. Good evening members of the board. My name is Ruben Perez. I'm an attorney with Fox Rothschild. Uh I am here on behalf of the River Frosting YMCA which is the applicant instant application concerning lot 15 lot 5 uh 64 Captain

35
00:10:48.959 --> 00:11:05.440
Street. Um the first part that I would want to just confirm is with the bur with the board of attorney and we uh discussed this just confirmation that jurisdiction is proper notice has been given. We submitted the outlet um with respect to the notice. Um so we're good

36
00:11:05.440 --> 00:11:22.480
on that front. Um before you continue conflicts. >> Uh yes. Is there anyone here looking at the application feels that they have any conflict personal uh financial or otherwise that would preclude them from having a direct or indirect interest in this application and affecting their

37
00:11:22.480 --> 00:11:41.440
ability to have the bias vote on the application. >> Thank you. Right. The uh the instant application concerns uh the property at 64 Cat Street. >> Excuse me. Can you pull the microphone closer? Thank you.

38
00:11:41.440 --> 00:11:56.160
>> Sure. Is this better? >> Yeah, better. >> Perfect. >> Perfect. Thank you. Uh the applicant concerns uh the the application concerns the property which is about 3.65

39
00:11:56.160 --> 00:12:13.519
acres uh which is in the public schools and park zone. Uh the property is currently improved with an existing dilapidated swimming pool, related pool structures, parking lot and drive aisles. Uh the applicant currently is getting is seeking a preliminary and final site plan approval and design waiver relief in order to reconstruct

40
00:12:13.519 --> 00:12:30.079
the pool locker room and pool equipment building associated parking and drive aisles. Uh the applicant is requesting certain design exception relief associated with uh the preliminary and final site plan approval. Uh we have uh with us tonight um various professionals

41
00:12:30.079 --> 00:12:45.200
and individuals um that can provide testimony on uh engineering as well as the operations um of uh the pool and similar uh operations that the YMCA has in other locations. Um so without

42
00:12:45.200 --> 00:13:03.440
further ado, I will call my first uh first uh professional which is Mr. Matt Wider. So, so our custom to kind of swear all the professionals in together and then call them one by one. Is that okay? >> Sure. Yeah, absolutely. Um, so if we can

43
00:13:03.440 --> 00:13:25.760
have Trish Michael perfect, the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. >> And then just for purposes of the record, we're going to mark as exhibit A1 the application supporting documentation.

44
00:13:25.760 --> 00:13:43.040
A2 will be the notice and proofs of publication. PB1 will be the vague ple technical comment report number one dated June 29, 2026. PB2 will be Mr. Chapman's traffic report dated July 1, 2026.

45
00:13:43.040 --> 00:13:57.600
EB3 will be Mr. Kyle's uh planning report dated July 6, 2026. And VB4 will be the report from the Environmental Commission. um references a meeting of June 16th. It doesn't have a date on it,

46
00:13:57.600 --> 00:14:39.519
so we'll go with the June 16th meeting. Take it away. So, do you have a digital version of that? >> Not. >> Okay. Was that part of the original plan? >> It was not. It wasn't. >> It was not. Okay. So, >> if you could turn it so that C is caught

47
00:14:39.519 --> 00:14:55.839
on one of the cameras. >> Uh, >> um, actually that that laptop camera is going to be a little bit easier. You can put it right like that. See it?

48
00:14:55.839 --> 00:15:11.760
And yeah. And if you want to take a seat there, you'll point to it over your shoulder and it's going to work. Okay. >> We'll mark that as a three. And then if we could just uh indicate what the title of it is and the date.

49
00:15:11.760 --> 00:15:33.440
>> There's a rendered site plan and the date on that is June 6, 2026. And again, I'm just going to ask that you fold the mic close. >> If you could for um the board as well as members of the board of independence um

50
00:15:33.440 --> 00:15:51.759
provide your first name and last name as well as your qualifications. >> Sure. It's Matthew W. Where's you spell that please? Uh M A T H E W and last name is WI T RS. Uh I am a site or a senior site engineer

51
00:15:51.759 --> 00:16:06.880
with Eustus Engineering. U I've been with Eustace for just shy of 20 years. Been doing this for over 23 years. I have a uh a bachelor's degree in landscape architecture with a minor in uh environmental uh studies.

52
00:16:06.880 --> 00:16:25.639
>> And you provided uh which specific plan? >> Sorry, Mr. Perez. You're going to have to speak into the mic as well. And uh if you could also provide which specific plans you submitted uh in connection with this application. That was the site plans that were dated.

53
00:16:35.519 --> 00:16:56.079
Originally dated February 9th, 2026, they were the land development plans for the fund community pool. And if you could also confirm, I had uh heard before other land use boards uh in

54
00:16:56.079 --> 00:17:14.240
the state of New Jersey qualified as it was. >> I have. Yes. Wait, hold on a second. So, you're qualifying him as a professional engineer. >> Yeah, just as an expert witness. I don't have a license as professional. I just

55
00:17:14.240 --> 00:17:29.520
want to make sure we're clear about the expertise. >> And that would be in civil and landscape architect. Civil engineering, landscape architecture. Just want to know >> testimonies a civil engineer. site planning, site design, stormwater

56
00:17:29.520 --> 00:17:53.280
design, grading, site layout. >> Are you a licensed landscape architect? >> I am not a licensed landscape architect. >> You hold any license at all? >> I hold no professional licenses at all. All right. Um, uh, with respect to the application, can you give us a general,

57
00:17:53.280 --> 00:18:08.160
um, overview of what's being requested, uh, as well as the, uh, the current state of the property? >> Sure. Um, as you see on this exhibit behind me, uh, we're talking about 64

58
00:18:08.160 --> 00:18:24.080
Cat Street, which is, as we know, the Bton Plington, uh, community pool, uh, location. We're located behind the Ritton Fleming Intermediate School, which on the plan is to the right. Captain Street would be to the top of

59
00:18:24.080 --> 00:18:42.320
the plan. Um, and we have access to the site across the intermediate school property via an access easement and their uh rear uh driveway. Uh, the site currently consists of a gravel parking lot that's in kind of disrepair. um an

60
00:18:42.320 --> 00:18:57.760
existing pool building and the existing metal uh lined uh original pool for the site. There is a small uh kitty pool on the right hand side of the pool. There's also a small pump house and a few um temporary sheds above them in the back

61
00:18:57.760 --> 00:19:14.919
of the site. Uh we have apartments to the north. Uh there is a park uh on the left or to the to the west and then to the south is an extension of that park area but it's really consists of mainly uh wetlands and like wooded area

62
00:19:16.799 --> 00:19:32.400
>> and uh do you have some background that you can provide as far as the the properties prior historical use? I believe it was uh the community pools was started in 1963 I believe. Um and was uh vacated

63
00:19:32.400 --> 00:19:50.080
sometime uh around 2018. So it's been what 8 years since it's been opened. It has fallen into some disrepair. Uh so the proposal uh the proposed application, excuse me, is to um do a little bit of maintenance on the

64
00:19:50.080 --> 00:20:04.880
existing gravel parking lot, but keep it mostly as it is. We're going to add a small asphalt area on the lefth hand side, the west end for some 88 parking. We're going to add two ADA spaces and a dumpster enclosure on that end. Uh there are interior renovations to the pool house. The dimensions of the pool house

65
00:20:04.880 --> 00:20:21.679
will remain the same. Mainly they consist of just upgrades to the locker rooms, the changing areas, the bathrooms, those type of of upgrades. And then the majority of the work is on the pool itself. Uh the pool is is going to be removed as in its current state and replaced with a a concrete line

66
00:20:21.679 --> 00:20:37.679
pool. Um it'll be a lap pool. There's some minor modifications to it, but we'll also have a zero entry end as well and a recreation space. Um there was a version of the plans that had a uh a pool slide at the very south end of the

67
00:20:37.679 --> 00:20:54.400
pool. That's been removed. Um the decided not to incorporate that into this plan. Uh and then there is a small splash pad that will be attached to the main pool deck area uh for uh children to use. Uh we're also doing some upgrades in and around the exterior

68
00:20:54.400 --> 00:21:10.960
areas of pool house uh just to make some some spaces uh for the small uh snack bar that's in there. Now there was a snack bar. We're going to maintain a snack bar. And then there will be some upgrades to the pumps um the filters, bring those all up to code. Um the

69
00:21:10.960 --> 00:21:29.039
piping for the pool, things of that nature. uh have you had a chance to uh review and uh as I understand it also respond uh to some of the comments uh from the technical review memo of the burough uh

70
00:21:29.039 --> 00:21:57.360
engineer stated June 29 2026 >> I have had a chance to review it and we actually I actually spoke with the burough engineer uh afterwards uh just to run through some of his comments get an idea make sure that we were on the same page So I have um uh an exhibit that I want

71
00:21:57.360 --> 00:22:13.520
to enter into. This is dated this is a dated February 17, 2026. revised July 7th, 20 uh 2026 um from useless uh with respect to uh can you can you provide some additional

72
00:22:13.520 --> 00:22:30.159
detail as to this specific submission? >> Sure. Included in the original application package was a waiver request letter which outlined uh five or six original waiverss that are still on this list. Uh but since receiving the technical review comments from the burough engineer and then uh the review

73
00:22:30.159 --> 00:22:45.120
comments from the township planner or excuse me the burough planner uh yesterday we updated this list to include some of the additional uh design waiverss that were required based on their reviews. >> Okay. So what we're marking as A4 is the

74
00:22:45.120 --> 00:23:02.000
useless letter dated February 17, 2026 revised through July. actually was revised yesterday. Uh July 7th. >> I haven't we didn't resubmit this prior to the meeting. >> That's that's an old version.

75
00:23:02.000 --> 00:23:19.919
>> Is it new on these? >> Yeah. Got it. Got it. Got it. Okay. >> No, that was because the the planners review letter was received this morning >> or yesterday. >> I have I have uh 10 Yeah. 10 copies here.

76
00:23:19.919 --> 00:23:39.760
until I'm gonna need you to read much if not all of this into the record at least so that our remote work participants know what's in here. Um if not you don't have to read every single word but like so they know what's in here if you don't have a digital versioning of it the

77
00:23:39.760 --> 00:23:55.120
moment. >> Sure I can do that now. However you want to give your testimony. I just want all the board members to have the benefit of knowing what's >> So you you didn't email that out to anybody? >> No, I did not. Well, I mean email to my attorney, but

78
00:23:55.120 --> 00:24:12.559
>> secretary of so that we can forward it to them. >> Correct. >> Um could you when you're going through this letter, could you identify which was on the original waiver request list that we've already received versus which are new? That way at least the members

79
00:24:12.559 --> 00:24:28.559
um line can distinguish between your old letter and your new letter. >> Absolutely. We'll we'll submit an electronic copy after the hearing tonight. And I did uh I did keep the the new or updated uh request separate. So they're they're under an added edit

80
00:24:28.559 --> 00:24:50.400
heading on the second page of the letter. That's so I can keep track of it myself. So >> thank you. I can run through the added if everyone's >> I would say that if if looking at it now for the benefit of those four remote the

81
00:24:50.400 --> 00:25:07.919
first five waiverss were in the were in the um original application am I understand that correctly >> correct >> so maybe you could talk through what's on page starting on page two and three in terms of added July 1st 2026 and just

82
00:25:07.919 --> 00:25:22.799
I think that would be helpful. >> Sure. There are a total of five added flavors. Uh the first one is from the RSIS uh which is referenced in the burrow ordinance under section 1600A

83
00:25:22.799 --> 00:25:40.000
and that is uh the parking lot Chevy surface with by two minutes uh surface. Uh the second number seven is also from 16A from the RSIS reference and that is that parking lot shall incorporate perimeter interior and interior curbing

84
00:25:40.000 --> 00:25:56.880
along with curved interior islands. The third number eight is from 1633 C1B and that is for parking illumination. Uh that's for the maximum foot candles uh within a vehicular use area. uh we are

85
00:25:56.880 --> 00:26:12.720
seeking relief uh to exceed the 1.0 foot candles that are permitted within that particular use area. And then on the last page u got the first variance actually is from 2627E5

86
00:26:12.720 --> 00:26:31.039
and that is for a non-residential use u fence uh to permit a fence up to 8 ft in height. Uh and then the last one which is variance number two is from 2637C and that is a uh request for relief from

87
00:26:31.039 --> 00:26:48.240
the bureau's um stormwater requirements um in lie of providing the 20% reduction in or I'm sorry the 20% uh credit we'll say in the impervious cover where the required impervious

88
00:26:48.240 --> 00:27:05.039
cover for this district is 50%. uh we were trying to hit 30% and I think that we did. Uh however, there were some questions in the burough engineers uh review letter about some of the existing surfaces whether they were gravel or lawn that I haven't had a chance to um

89
00:27:05.039 --> 00:27:21.440
investigate further uh and provide that additional information to the review engineer. So, the intent would be to not need this uh this relief, but since we're here tonight, I'm going to request it um on the grounds of that we are reducing the impervious cover regardless

90
00:27:21.440 --> 00:27:36.799
of what's considered gravel and lawn uh in the existing parking lot. And the primary focus is on the existing parking lot um in an effort to not have to provide the uh the required storm water management. And those are the five additional

91
00:27:36.799 --> 00:28:02.159
uh relief items. Thank you, >> Mr. Chairman. Um, board attorney, I'm just having a sidebar here. Um, so with respect to variance relief, so reading through this section, fence, it says that should be considered as a waiver from the ordinance standard, not

92
00:28:02.159 --> 00:28:20.159
a variance. However, 2637 C would be a variance. problem is the board needs to know what they're granting relief. Like we need to have specifics. We, you know, we can't just say, "Well, we're giving you variance and you know, whatever." So,

93
00:28:20.159 --> 00:28:37.440
I'm I'm I think we're both a little hesitant to just say, you know, we're we're going to consider some relief that we don't we can't. So, just a little concerned about that aspect of it. Um, so I don't know what to do with that.

94
00:28:37.440 --> 00:28:57.360
>> I hear you. So, um, let me ask Mr. Argo, what do we This This seems to be in response to your um to your review letter. Do Do you Did you Were you able to figure out how close they are to 3 0 or

95
00:28:57.360 --> 00:29:14.399
is or is this not knowable? I'm looking for those page five of your letter number three. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Page that page page five item three. Correct. Um that was my general assessment of it. Obviously I'm

96
00:29:14.399 --> 00:29:31.120
not testifying to the accuracy of that. This is my general assessment of of areas of the issue we have here that part of the submission package is an existing survey conditions. that surveyor in surveying the property

97
00:29:31.120 --> 00:29:48.720
identified certain areas of the property as grass or at least as a gravel surface. Uh I made a site inspection of the property just a drive drive through uh and noticed that there was areas where hope was a great overly um a

98
00:29:48.720 --> 00:30:04.880
generous leaves were growing through a lot of the areas um and I didn't get I didn't get out and dig into ground or look at anything like that but that's that's what I would perceive that the surveyor identified as as grass areas. Um and what I noted in my report and

99
00:30:04.880 --> 00:30:21.360
what the applicant did as part of their assessment um when they did the um they reduced the size of the physically the size of the parking area mainly coming off the west end and then they brought the they brought it more compact and together and they

100
00:30:21.360 --> 00:30:37.279
put gravel in an area that the surveyor said was grass in the applicant's assessment of the why why they thought they met with the 20% % reduction is that they didn't consider that grass. They considered it stone. So

101
00:30:37.279 --> 00:30:52.880
as I outlined in my report, they you know there's an area would be surveyor said it was grass that was becoming stone. They just treated that and they were taking a stone area and regrading it as stone uh in a similar fashion. There's another area uh on the property

102
00:30:52.880 --> 00:31:08.640
that was listed as uh as as grass uh and uh and they're indicating that that's actually stone converted to grass. So, it was a two-way twofold thing going on there where they didn't hit the target. Now, you're asking me what I thought how

103
00:31:08.640 --> 00:31:26.640
far off the target they were. Um, I mean, right, your your note here, I'm just make sure I'm understanding this correctly. Their plan indicates a rough approximate 11,37 square foot net loss of impervious surface, which will bring it from 3812

104
00:31:26.640 --> 00:31:44.080
to 3. You're saying in your note that >> it's about 7500 >> there's another it's actually 7500 feet which may not get us there is that so Mr. Is that is that what we're trying to see if I actually said what that would be? >> I don't see it would not meet the 20

105
00:31:44.080 --> 00:31:59.840
>> somewhere I calculated that but I didn't. Yeah. So, basically, >> I was going to say to to add um and after Bob and I spoke, that was one of the points that we discussed at length on the phone conversation, actually

106
00:31:59.840 --> 00:32:16.000
stopped by the the site on my way here today with a shovel. Um because what has happened on the site is that u just given some of the the uh the time that has has passed since the site hasn't been used uh regularly there are areas

107
00:32:16.000 --> 00:32:32.240
that have over gravel that have overgrown. Um so with that shovel I was able to go out and confirm it wasn't 100% of the area in question but it was actually a little bit more uh in certain areas where I didn't think there was gravel. So what we had done when we submitted the application with our

108
00:32:32.240 --> 00:32:48.880
technical plans is looked at historic aerials and didn't just sort of shoot from the hip but instead tried to figure out historically where that gravel was was used and had since overgrown and essentially still there's still a layer of gravel underneath that could be used.

109
00:32:48.880 --> 00:33:05.840
Um so that was what our plan and our stormwater impervious reduction calculation was based on. What um Bob has asked us to do is um update the survey with that additional information. Um and I'm happy to do that. Just going to take a minute, some time to do that.

110
00:33:05.840 --> 00:33:23.760
>> Okay. So, so that's good to hear that you want to work with with our forests professional and get it. >> It is the testimony that your goal is to get to 230. Yes. make modifications to the plan if it turns out that field conditions may need to be adjusted based

111
00:33:23.760 --> 00:33:41.120
on weeds versus gravel. Is that what I'm hearing? >> That is what you're hearing. Yes. >> Okay. So, >> so we're not technically asking for a variance from that requirement tonight. We're saying that we understand that you haven't met the

112
00:33:41.120 --> 00:33:58.320
information Bob's asking for to show that it does, but you will as a condition approval get to that point. >> Yeah, sir. We'll have to provide storm water management. >> Okay. So, well, yeah. So, so here's >> that's part two. >> That's part two. So, so so, so, so

113
00:33:58.320 --> 00:34:14.800
there's two things. The point that Mr. Kyle was raising is that you can't just say I need a variance. You have to say we are30 is required. We are providing a plan that gets us to 3 something or other. You need to give us a number and we have to the board has to vote on the

114
00:34:14.800 --> 00:34:30.879
specifics of that. It sounds like that that number is unknown at present. Bob made a guess. You were out there with the shovel. Like we don't actually know exactly what that number is. Correct. >> That is correct. >> Okay. So that's number one. And it sounds like you want to get to 030. And you're saying also then if you can't get

115
00:34:30.879 --> 00:34:48.879
to 30, we've got to deal with with with storm water, which is our our ordinance. If that becomes the condition, we have nothing in submission to deal with the storm water. So we can't proceed until that work gets done to see what's what

116
00:34:48.879 --> 00:35:04.400
actually the storm water plan is for the site. And given wetlands and other things, it's not necessarily straightforward. So that that that's I think the concern that we're where we are at the moment. Does that make sense? >> It does. I'm trying to figure out how to

117
00:35:04.400 --> 00:35:20.960
respond. >> Well, I think if you can I think what you're going to say tonight is we're going to be at three. We're not asking for relief. If we get to a point where you go out there and figure out can't get to three, you're either going to do storm water or you're going to revise the site plan to trim some areas of

118
00:35:20.960 --> 00:35:36.880
other impervious to get to.3. Right. >> Yes. That's a consideration. national thing. Okay. >> And I guess then the question is would the board want to see what those storm water was or will we leave it up to the satisfaction of professionals and then if there's an issue to come back to show the board.

119
00:35:36.880 --> 00:35:52.480
>> Right. And and I think that this board likes to see storm water systems. I think if it's a matter of trimming a few feet of gravel, I think the board is willing to trust our professionals. when it comes to storm water systems

120
00:35:52.480 --> 00:36:07.760
the board but generally people tend to want to see that stuff what it's going to look like so >> if that's you >> doesn't raise any issue >> I I will I will add that it is

121
00:36:07.760 --> 00:36:24.240
>> it is a must for us not to have to include storm water management on the site both from a a timing standpoint and and from um a economic usability standpoint Right. Understood. So I I think that seeking relief from 2637 at

122
00:36:24.240 --> 00:36:41.480
present is probably not something you want to be asking for. It sounds like >> we'll withdraw. >> Okay. All right. >> Thank you. >> I appreciate you ignoring me for a minute. >> No, no, no, no, no. This is why this is why we ask questions to try to get to get things where they need to be.

123
00:36:44.320 --> 00:37:01.520
>> And I I should I should add that we are absolutely willing and here to work with the burrow and uh the burough professionals on every aspect of this project. We understand what this site means the burrow what has what it has meant to the burrow. Uh I know Ruben has

124
00:37:01.520 --> 00:37:18.880
we've talked on the phone a few times on teams meetings. He actually attended and and had fun at the pool um after school and things when he was younger. So it's uh definitely understand um how important this site is uh to the burough and I can state and we'll state

125
00:37:18.880 --> 00:37:41.359
later that is equally important to the YMCA. Well, >> so at this point um we can go through some of the technical comments from the technical review memos. Yeah, >> depending on on how you want to proceed

126
00:37:41.359 --> 00:37:58.800
either with the fur engineer. So, so usually what we do is um if there's no other direct testimony, if you just want to go through the letters, we usually have our board's professionals ask questions. Um um so if you want to go through it first, that's fine because we usually do testimony,

127
00:37:58.800 --> 00:38:14.720
follow questions from our boards professionals, questions from board, questions from the public is usually the order in which we do it. So, um if you want to dive right into the letters and address things that are open, that's great. and then all professionals can just jump in with follow-ups if that works. So,

128
00:38:14.720 --> 00:38:30.560
>> yeah, I think the the we'll do testimony also just to kind of provide some additional background on the operations as well so you get a general understanding of the >> So, so you're saying Mr. W is done >> for now. Okay. So then, so if that's the

129
00:38:30.560 --> 00:38:47.599
case, does do any of our professionals have additional questions for Mr. W on his testimony? Uh just looking at the exhibit, Matt. Um so the site plan shows that the pump house is two sheds. This exhibit only shows one shed in the pump house. Is the

130
00:38:47.599 --> 00:39:04.359
other shed second shed coming off? >> Yeah, the second shed will be be coming off. That's correct. >> All right. >> All right. So when we say second sheds, let's identify which one. So >> that'll be the western shed. The sheds to the west of the pump house.

131
00:39:07.680 --> 00:39:23.680
You just say it's impervious right there. >> We weren't counting that impervious because it makes a shed on gravel. So I was trying to be conservative. We understand. >> Any other questions from our professionals? >> No >> questions from members of the board.

132
00:39:23.680 --> 00:39:47.680
I have a couple other ones. M I'm just going to go to my site plan comments. Um Will another witness address the well, the electric meter, the propane tank, all that? >> Um, I can speak to that. >> Okay, let's run through that and what's

133
00:39:47.680 --> 00:40:03.280
going to happen with that. >> Sure. Uh, as far as the electric meter, uh, that's probably going to remain. That's be determined yet. Um, but if it does remain in its current state, it's right next to where the well is. Uh, we'll definitely be able to screen that uh either with something structural or I

134
00:40:03.280 --> 00:40:19.599
know there's some landscaping around it originally. I don't know if we want to put that back. Uh, but you had mentioned I think a fence uh of some sort in there. >> Yeah. Something my only concern there is that that asphalt walkway is literally right next to that pole where the meter is hung. So, you know, kids running around. We don't want anybody getting in

135
00:40:19.599 --> 00:40:36.240
there and, you know, having an accident. >> It's definitely something taken into advice, man. It's just we have to coordinate that with the utility company um as far as where that meter may end up if we continue to use the transformers that are uh pole mounted back there and the pole stay in their current location. That still has to be vetted with the

136
00:40:36.240 --> 00:40:49.839
utility company. >> Okay. >> Um as far as the propane tank, that small propane tank's going to go away and they're going to put a larger propane tank inside of the uh the fenced in area back where the the pool improvements are. I think that is shown

137
00:40:49.839 --> 00:41:06.560
on the the plans that were submitted. Um shown as a P I believe is big long. >> Yeah, it's it's right behind the splash pad for for now. Sort of the placeholder.

138
00:41:06.560 --> 00:41:23.520
>> And is that just for the cafe? Uh, it'd be for a cafe, but it's been sized for potential future use. Uh, if we ever need to um to provide uh heaters for the pool. >> Okay.

139
00:41:23.520 --> 00:41:40.960
>> There's nothing there's no no plans to heat the pool initially. Uh, but that's certainly something that that could come down the road. So, the thought was let's let's include that in the sizing of that tank. >> Okay. The the ultimate goal of the Y would be to run a a line all the way out to

140
00:41:40.960 --> 00:41:57.040
Cather Street. There is gas available on Cab Street. We did confirm that with the gas company expensive run. >> It's not of course at this moment. >> Okay. >> Um when I was there yesterday, so that large pine tree that's kind of in that island where the thing splits, I noticed

141
00:41:57.040 --> 00:42:13.280
a lot of the roots are up on the surface where the driveway is. So they've kind of just come out of the dirt. I think a lot of the dirt and gravel's just been kind of wa, you know, wiped away, washed away. Um, do you have any thoughts on how we could address that because I wouldn't

142
00:42:13.280 --> 00:42:29.520
it's a good tree to keep. So, I make sure the roots are protected. >> Uh, I think uh we do a little bit further assessment on that with and I tore through there today and saw where the roots were and the rotting and everything else that's occurring through there. certainly part of the improvements that I didn't know how to show on the plants, but we freshen up

143
00:42:29.520 --> 00:42:45.760
the gravel. Um, you know, because there are potholes in that gravel just because it hasn't been maintained. So, that we do want to get um get that gravel and and where the planner where Jim is talking about is is through here. Um, certainly want to address that though. I did see that and I think I like the

144
00:42:45.760 --> 00:43:00.800
comment. Um, so I'll have to have one of our landscape architects take a look at that. um and uh then see what we can come up with. If it's just putting gravel, soil and gravel back on top and kind of refreshing that space, then I think that probably works the best. Okay. >> There was a question about you had

145
00:43:00.800 --> 00:43:17.599
mentioned the well. Um I know that that was also in um engineer clerico's letter about whether we were going to leave the well open. Uh the intent is to leave the well uh in its current state and use that well to fill the pool. Uh we do want to connect into domestic water for

146
00:43:17.599 --> 00:43:32.480
a pot of water for inside the snack bar, inside of the restrooms just to have something a little bit more consistent. The well hasn't been run in some time from what I understand. So we've got to test it and make sure that it's going to yield what we can, you know, what we need to fill that pool. Um, we also have

147
00:43:32.480 --> 00:43:48.880
talked to sewer and uh the sewer department, the water department about um this upgrade to this facility and making sure that they can service this facility whether we're using domestic to fill the pool or not. That didn't seem to be an issue with the water department. Um, so our next step is

148
00:43:48.880 --> 00:44:04.319
going to be some additional correspondence and coordination with them. We will submit plans to both for their feedback on layouts and connections and details and things like that. >> Okay. I think if the well's going to stay, if if we're going to fence around the area where the meter is, I think we

149
00:44:04.319 --> 00:44:20.079
just include the well, too. I mean, I noticed there's a hatch on top of there, you know, it's just I think that's just asking for trouble. So, >> there's a hole in the side of the wellhead, too. I saw that today, the concrete. So, again, that's something that we have to assess moving forward. >> Okay. >> Jim, is there

150
00:44:20.079 --> 00:44:35.760
on wellhead protection? Does that apply to something like this? Not if it's uh it's not a it's a public water supply well then it's considered a private well right >> well it's an existing well uh there are regulations associating you're

151
00:44:35.760 --> 00:44:52.480
indicating it's a portable source I think it would have to be if you're going to build pool um so there are criteria associated that trying to again it's an existing well uh in that location whether it has any historical rights associated with it or It's

152
00:44:52.480 --> 00:45:09.200
permitted. I don't Is there a Is there a permit for this from D? >> I have no idea of that. >> Yeah, you have to investigate exactly what you're what they have there. Um >> I think the intent is to hire a well company to come in and start taking a look at the well and to make sure that

153
00:45:09.200 --> 00:45:24.560
it can be reused. Again, we have no no idea what the current state is and whether the pumps are going to have to be replaced. I'm sure they are. Sure, they're seized at this point u not being used. So again, it's an investment that the the YMCA needs to investigate a little bit more.

154
00:45:24.560 --> 00:45:39.760
>> We could put some sort of condition in there saying that they need to provide us with with what the requirements are based upon who they hire and then satisfaction of those requirements so that we can we're not exactly sure what they are right now.

155
00:45:39.760 --> 00:45:55.040
>> As I noted in my report, standard operating procedure of the board is that you're going to require some sort of sign off from the bar department. I'm sure they're going to have a lot of other questions. If they're going to have a both a well source and tied into burl system, I'm sure there's going to

156
00:45:55.040 --> 00:46:11.520
be a concern about intermixing of, you know, water and their separate systems. Are they even allowed or for what purpose and whatnot? So >> that's Bob, that's correct. The private well and if we service them, they cannot be mixed.

157
00:46:11.520 --> 00:46:28.960
>> So there could be a lot of technical issues associated with that. Um again, well heard board, but I would think your normal um condition would be it's subject to getting an official sign off from the uh Burl water department, a

158
00:46:28.960 --> 00:46:44.160
sewer as well, but but basically the burl my understanding is this facility has sewer lines that are connected to the burrow system and there's no proposal to change anything but again it it is a upgrade on the facilities in there. So you would want department to

159
00:46:44.160 --> 00:47:01.119
sign off as well. Um but the water is probably probably more unknowns at this point associated with the water uh than with the sewer. >> Couple more. Um I think we need to talk to Matt about the waiverss. I don't think we're going to hear from any other

160
00:47:01.119 --> 00:47:18.480
witnesses regarding that. So let's talk about the filtered buffer requirement first. Um my observation being out there most of what's there is deciduous. uh you know as you can see in the photo and my memo it's visible um I think it's really up to the board

161
00:47:18.480 --> 00:47:36.000
the requirement is that you know we have basically a visual barrier there um which if the pool's only operating seasonally from say you know Memorial Day to Labor Day we're going to have leaves on the trees during operational times so we

162
00:47:36.000 --> 00:47:50.640
might have some flexibility there um I think at a minimum Um, the board considers a waiver from the strict requirements of the filter buffer. We should plug in some additional trees just, you know, you can see there's gaps. You can see through to

163
00:47:50.640 --> 00:48:07.520
the apartments there. Um, and I don't think it's a whole lot, but it's really up to you guys what level we feel like we need to buffer this because the back of the apartments face directly. They're higher, so they're kind of looking down into the parking

164
00:48:07.520 --> 00:48:23.040
lot. Um, those are mostly the backs and there's garages I guess underneath the building. I don't know if that's just the back. >> They have back porches. >> There's there's only windows. >> Right. Sure.

165
00:48:23.040 --> 00:48:38.319
>> So, and and we're not talking about second floor windows even the first floor because there's a change of elevation. >> Right. Right. So, do do you guys have any thoughts about or are you guys willing to maybe add some vegetation to that section, you

166
00:48:38.319 --> 00:48:55.079
know, north of the parking lot? >> Yeah, I think we're fine with the condition on that that waiver that would be to the satisfaction of of the the burough uh liner as far as the screening along that that property line. I absolutely agree with you. There is a lot of invasive in there.

167
00:48:55.920 --> 00:49:11.440
>> Well, the problem is it's been eight years since the site was maintained. So now you have all these vines and invasives growing up into the trees and >> there's a lot of multifllora rose there too which we want to get rid of. >> Right. >> Um >> do you guys have any thoughts on the

168
00:49:11.440 --> 00:49:26.800
composition of Well, look, we're going to add trees. We might as well add evergreens. Right. Right. >> So um I think we could >> kind of pick some of the locations where we need to fill in in that supplement because it it would be a lot to >> you know put evergreen on this line.

169
00:49:26.800 --> 00:49:42.559
You're talking hundreds of feet of offering. >> No, I think we're I think we're we're all kind of feels like we're all Please jump in if anyone disagrees. I think feels like we're filling where there's gaps. If we're filling in the trees, make it evergreen. So, this is a citrus green mix. >> Okay.

170
00:49:42.559 --> 00:50:00.079
>> The satisfaction of >> I think what's important is that people on the community pool side don't have direct visibility into private like private residences, >> right? And so, you know, maybe even filling in with some um some evergreen

171
00:50:00.079 --> 00:50:16.160
shrubs between some of the deciduous trees, right? >> Yeah. >> But by the time the leaves come off, the pool's closed, right? You have got anywhere else to say it's going to be used for it. >> Right. >> Right. >> Well, right now it's going to be used for a pool. Right. And and we don't I

172
00:50:16.160 --> 00:50:31.839
don't you know, look, even if you eat the pool, you're not swimming in it in November, right? So, sounds like it's I think we'll hear some more, but it sounds like it's seasonal use. Maybe a little before Memorial Day, maybe a little after Labor Day, but for the most part, it's, you know, during summer months when there are leaves on all

173
00:50:31.839 --> 00:50:46.480
those trees. >> That's the question because they they want extra additional candle power and only a pole. Why do they need that? >> Yeah, I think we'll hopefully hear some more about that on the operational side

174
00:50:46.480 --> 00:51:07.040
and need for that. Um, Okay. Um, Matt, do you have any thoughts on so we do have the waiver U for the modules in the parking area? The point I made here is this is an existing parking lot that they're renovating. If if we're building new parking lot, you probably

175
00:51:07.040 --> 00:51:23.520
won't see that, but I think given what we're doing here, I think the waiver in this case from that standard is appropriate. Of course, that's up to you guys. um parking lot trees. So, with 36 parking stalls, they're required

176
00:51:23.520 --> 00:51:40.160
to provide 12 trees. There are four pretty big oak trees um in that existing area. It's kind of hard to tell. Almost looks like it's a landscape island, but it's not. There's gravel under there. And the cars are going to be parked essentially right there. Um look, I'm not a landscape architect, but when I

177
00:51:40.160 --> 00:51:56.000
looked at the trees, they're starting to decline. you got one of them has a lot of debt in the top that you know they they definitely need to be they need some set at a minimum. Um but I just wonder if we're kind of just going to continue this problem because now we're

178
00:51:56.000 --> 00:52:12.240
going to have there haven't been cars parked there in eight years. So are we just going to continue this problem and these trees were just going to decline and die eventually? Should we really be thinking about another approach here that makes a little more sense? take those 12 trees

179
00:52:12.240 --> 00:52:28.000
that are required in the parking lot, put them out on the perimeter instead. You know, because this isn't really wide. You have one they have parking and you have a drop out on either side at 60s something ft. So, it may be more prudent given that this is gravel

180
00:52:28.000 --> 00:52:43.839
and they're going to be cars parked literally right on top of all roots to maybe just deal with this issue now so we're not dealing with it later. >> Well, so so the requirement is 50 by 12 trees. Yeah, they get credit for any tree greater than five inch caliber and

181
00:52:43.839 --> 00:52:58.400
most of these look like they would meet that requirement. So, so really if these were going to stay, it would be eight, right? >> And some of those trees would help with the previously discussed screening if you're saying to push them to the

182
00:52:58.400 --> 00:53:16.800
outside. >> Any new trees I think should go on the periphery. Let's not put new trees. I mean, there are trees that will work here. I pointed out a few and a lot of them. Those four are actually on our list for shade trees, too. Those would work. They work better. They work well

183
00:53:16.800 --> 00:53:32.880
in compacted soil conditions like we would have here. Just oaks don't really like that all that much. So, we could if we want to have trees in the parking lot, I'm suggesting we use one of the four that I identified. If not, if we're going to push them out to the perimeter,

184
00:53:32.880 --> 00:53:48.800
we can really use any tree on the list if we want. Just to be clear, you're proposing that the trees that are in the parking lot now get removed and down to the exterior or keep the ones that are in the parking lot. >> I think they need to be assessed. I mean, again, I'm not a landscape

185
00:53:48.800 --> 00:54:03.119
architect, not an arborist. I'm just I'm just telling you what I saw when I was there yesterday. They they look like they're in decline. So, and I wonder if that's going to get worse once the sites reactivated and cars are parked, you know, in close proximity on top of the

186
00:54:03.119 --> 00:54:20.079
roots. Um, what's the point? I mean, you guys have any thoughts on it? >> I think and and I talked to my wife prior to the meeting about this and I was out there today and I agree with you 100%. Three of the four are I mean, they're basically the tops are dead um and which is definitely going to hurt

187
00:54:20.079 --> 00:54:35.839
the rest of the tree. >> There's that fourth one that's sort of there um on the west end that's that's on the in the foreground photo in your your letter. Um, I think we're fine with um providing the trees but along the perimeter like moving them out and

188
00:54:35.839 --> 00:54:50.640
getting them from the interior the parking lot helps with um site safety as well from our standpoint security. I mean it gives you a clear, you know, line through um without any type of obstruction from the pool house out. So that's we're fine with that condition to

189
00:54:50.640 --> 00:55:06.880
push push those interior trees to the perimeter. You're you're also losing some potential parking spaces in there because you're trying to preserve the trees. So that's the extent you plan called for the elimination of those trees. You might gain some parking spaces internal which again might let

190
00:55:06.880 --> 00:55:22.640
you cut down on some of the purpose covers around the bur perhaps. >> Yeah, we pick up three parking spaces. Uh to Bob's point, there's three parking spaces now that are exile of a plan that we were trying to save those trees just actually steward of the site, but you're absolutely right. They're in decline and

191
00:55:22.640 --> 00:55:38.800
we'll probably lose them in 10 years anyway. >> So Justin, you unmuted. Did you want to jump in? looked like you had something. >> No, I just want to make sure that um you know we're replacing and adding that we're not just reducing um and taking

192
00:55:38.800 --> 00:55:55.200
away just for the sake of adding three parking spaces. Um >> I think Justin, my observation was these these trees are going to be an issue down the road. Three of the four are not in good condition now. Uh the fourth one, you know, might be okay um for the

193
00:55:55.200 --> 00:56:11.119
next few years, but eventually with cars in close proximity and parked on the on the root zone, it's probably going to die u in the next four to five years anyway. I think I'd rather just deal with the issue now, remove the four trees and then replace with the 12 that

194
00:56:11.119 --> 00:56:25.839
are required by the ordinance >> around the perimeter. >> Put on the perimeter, not in the parking area. Okay. >> But isn't Justin's comment

195
00:56:25.839 --> 00:56:42.720
in addition to what's required for new for the new parking lot? What I think what Justin was saying is in addition to the 12, replace the four in kind. So that would be 16. Is that what you're saying, Justin? I don't want to.

196
00:56:42.720 --> 00:56:58.160
>> That would be that would be preferable. Um but not um if they're only required to put 12 trees um according to the site plan then you know I can't ask them to

197
00:56:58.160 --> 00:57:15.200
>> you know add another four trees like do they are are they hitting the are they hitting that number is 12 the number that's required according to our >> yeah 12 required they could get credit for the four that are there so they would only be required to provide eight additional so we're gonna we're gonna I

198
00:57:15.200 --> 00:57:31.200
think the propo what I'm proposing is four come down and we put 12 in but we put them on the perimeter of the lot not in the parking area. >> So the only concern I would raise then is are these so three certainly three you're saying three of these trees are really just not in great shape.

199
00:57:31.200 --> 00:57:46.480
>> Yeah I think mine agrees. So is where what's the state of the tree like is it I mean you can see it in the picture in my memo I mean that one doesn't so the other three the top all died there there's a lot of dead branches sticking out of the top not a

200
00:57:46.480 --> 00:58:03.520
good sign that fourth one is I would I mean my >> can we send someone out to go take a look and see if they are really in in bad condition >> yeah okay the my you know if we have a if we have a mature healthy pre. We

201
00:58:03.520 --> 00:58:18.079
don't want to take down a bet. >> Exactly. >> Right. So, so that's kind of the >> But if we if we believe that it's going to die after the site gets reactivated and we

202
00:58:18.079 --> 00:58:34.079
only require in order to put in 11 trees and then the small dies, >> that was >> then we're stuck without that tree. It's not it's not a great situation to have gravel right over the root zone, cars parking and driving over the root zone.

203
00:58:34.079 --> 00:58:49.440
I mean, eventually it's it's going to be a problem. It's just not a good good scenario. >> Does it make any sense to take the three down, leave the four, still require the 12 because we know it's going to happen and then leave it up to

204
00:58:49.440 --> 00:59:05.599
>> the Y appropriate to take it down if it's four years. I mean, I don't know if that creates any commercial liability issue concerned with, but >> but if we put in the resolution that we acknowledge that tree is not going to make it and at any time when they consider it dangerous that they can take

205
00:59:05.599 --> 00:59:20.240
it down, >> but we still have the 12. >> But we have the 12. >> They have to replace it in kind of quick or something. >> Wait, our ordinance requires them to like down the road at that fourth one. >> No, we already are requiring them to put in the required amount which is 12 and

206
00:59:20.240 --> 00:59:36.240
they take down three and they leave one. So that was 13, >> but we acknowledge that we believe that at some point that tree is going to sick. We still have our 12 which is required by the >> in the ordinance and we allow them to

207
00:59:36.240 --> 00:59:51.359
>> take down the 13th when they need to. >> Again, it becomes a a timing issue. I'd rather take down four trees than three trees and have to come back and take down fourth five minutes later. >> Okay. So why don't we can we add in the resolution that if those trees are going

208
00:59:51.359 --> 01:00:07.839
to come down and it's going to um be less than that you know 12 required instead of putting up new trees uh to if if you don't want to put new trees up to uh pay into the tree fund per tree. >> No, we want

209
01:00:07.839 --> 01:00:22.400
to put >> they can put 12 on the site. I don't think that's the argu >> there's room on the perimeter. I think that's >> but the question was do you want to take down a tree that may be viable for the next five years that was that

210
01:00:22.400 --> 01:00:39.440
>> but five years in the length of a tree especially to oak >> is nothing tree last 15 years so I think I think >> but then that only means that they're required to put 11 trees >> no 12 >> oh they're still required to put the 12

211
01:00:39.440 --> 01:00:56.640
trees okay >> all right I think the Are they and it is clear are they going to clear out all the invasive line everything that's definite >> we we agree to that condition to the satisfaction of of the bur or a planner

212
01:00:56.640 --> 01:01:11.839
we'll say >> ch on your >> uh sorry I'm kind of dominating >> no no this is this is important so let let's talk about the lighting um so this is an auto we saw with spark we

213
01:01:11.839 --> 01:01:28.000
have this maximum intensity standard that with LED lighting is almost impossible to meet. You're always going to have an exceedence of the limit right under the fixture. So the point I was making was these

214
01:01:28.000 --> 01:01:44.400
fixtures are n some of them are 80 90 100 feet away from each other. So what what we're going to have is the lighting is not going to be very uniform because you have bright spots right under the light and then it quickly diminishes to 0.1 foot right so

215
01:01:44.400 --> 01:01:59.440
what I wanted to understand was more about the operations to the mayor's point you know so in the summertime it's it's light till 8:30 8:45 right so what are the hours of operation that are going to be proposed how does that line

216
01:01:59.440 --> 01:02:14.480
up with you you know, the need for sight lighting. Um, what are we what's the real issue here with >> we I think we could bring someone someone else from the Y to testify to the the the programming and the time and

217
01:02:14.480 --> 01:02:30.079
and kind of the daily routine of the site, if you will. The only thing that I would point out before that that happens is that um the not only are the foot candles highly restrictive, the maximum foot candles at ground level are highly restrictive, but there's also a

218
01:02:30.079 --> 01:02:46.400
requirement that we can't exceed the height of the building with our uh lighting fixture, the mounted height for the lighting fixture, which in this case is 14 ft. Um so I've got to put lights in at 14 ft high. So, we're um we're uh exaggerating that intensity that you

219
01:02:46.400 --> 01:03:03.920
talked about directly below uh the the fixture in that case. And I can I can testify I did the the the actual lighting design myself uh that I looked at uh a plethora of different LED lights. And this was one of the smaller guard lights that I could find uh with

220
01:03:03.920 --> 01:03:19.280
the least amount of photo cells in it to try to create the least amount of hot spots directly below. Um, I'm certainly willing to look at additional uh additional uh um makes and models to see if there's something better out there,

221
01:03:19.280 --> 01:03:34.720
but knowing that the major manufacturers that I've used in the past, there's really not much different than what I'm going to find with this Garco. Um, to add additional lights, uh, based on that 14T height maximum, um, I don't know that I'm going to be able to get away

222
01:03:34.720 --> 01:03:51.200
from those hot spots at I think the 2.4 foot candles at this point, right? I did run a little bit of analysis before we came in and the the code says uh the maximum height of the building or um 25 ft whichever is less. So in this case

223
01:03:51.200 --> 01:04:07.760
we're pinched by the 14t height of the existing building um if if I could raise those lights up to to say 22 feet which is where that sweet spot was um I get a much more uniform um light distribution across that site with the same amount of

224
01:04:07.760 --> 01:04:22.160
lights. Um, and again, I wanted to try to keep the light fixtures, poles, bases to a minimum. Um, for for a couple different reasons. >> I get I'm gonna get that. >> Yeah. So, it's it's just >> Well, let me ask the question then, Jim.

225
01:04:22.160 --> 01:04:38.480
Is is are is it design standard or variance rel >> to the height? >> Right. >> So, could you give us your thoughts on raising the height of the poles? a

226
01:04:38.480 --> 01:04:54.720
better solution than what is being proposed or is yes quick answer yes and I'll tell you why so yes we have residential use to the north as you saw if you looked at the lighting analysis were zeros all along the other thing is these light fixtures

227
01:04:54.720 --> 01:05:11.200
are not near the boundary right so we can always have shielding on the back to make sure that the source of the light's not visible um 22 foot 22 foot light pole um I think in this

228
01:05:11.200 --> 01:05:26.640
application is not offensive in terms of the additional height. >> It won't put any spill into the residence. >> No, because you can always shield the back of the light on that side. So, but I don't I don't think it's LED lighting is so directional anyway. You don't get

229
01:05:26.640 --> 01:05:42.960
like you used to with metal halite or high pressure sodium where it just goes all over the place. you know, the diodes can be focused very specifically so that it's not casting back towards the residential property line, which is really the area of concern. So, I would say we

230
01:05:42.960 --> 01:05:57.839
I think what Matt is saying is if you can raise the height to 22, it's going to provide better uniformity and it's going to reduce that intensity right under the light. >> It's the residential on Banell and the residential if you park. >> Yeah. the I think either way we're

231
01:05:57.839 --> 01:06:13.440
trying to focus the light really on the parking area so they can be shielded on both sides if necessary, but the houses on Dell are pretty far away >> and obviously this isn't going to be lit in the winter time. >> Well, I mean we're going to get testimony about operations to to the hours. Yeah.

232
01:06:13.440 --> 01:06:30.160
>> Well, right. But honestly, my preference would be go to 22, leave the number of poles, and then we we just need to be sure that, you know, we can shield them. The light source isn't going to be visible. I think that's a better alternative because it'll reduce that 2.4 to what?

233
01:06:30.160 --> 01:06:47.799
>> It was one 22t. So, >> so we can be conforming if we left for the height. >> But we would need a waiver for the height. >> No, it's a waiver for the height as opposed to a waiver for the light intensity. as my kids would say six

234
01:06:48.640 --> 01:07:13.280
terrible. >> Sorry. >> So I I think that is a better solution to go to 22 consider granting waiver for that. It's going to result in a more uniform light pattern in the parking area. >> What else you got in the letter? I think

235
01:07:13.280 --> 01:07:27.119
I'm done. >> All right, I'm done. >> You're done. >> Jay, do you have any questions for this witness? >> Not yet. >> All right, did you have any questions for the next >> board members for questions for this witness and testimony given? I'll go

236
01:07:27.119 --> 01:07:52.559
remote first. Dennis, are you good? >> Justin, >> I'm good. >> Karen, >> no questions. All right. Um, just with the propane thing, um, I just want to explain a little bit more.

237
01:07:52.559 --> 01:08:10.960
It sounded like it was near to the bear to describe that a little bit more. >> Sure. Um, it's going to be as the current plan has it located somewhere in this general area which it would be screened. Um

238
01:08:10.960 --> 01:08:26.960
there's a an overall theme with our plan that I'm trying to keep our land disturbance to less than one acre so that I don't have to go talk to the D about my piece. Um so really the uh in all honesty and transparency the location of that tank is based on trying

239
01:08:26.960 --> 01:08:42.719
to keep it where we're removing existing concrete or existing pool feature. It will be I'll determine where that tank has to go once we understand um the the need for uh that pool area if we ever do heat it. Um then I understand how big

240
01:08:42.719 --> 01:08:58.640
that tank has to be. It hasn't been sized yet. I just based it on I think it was like a 1400gallon tank or 1500 something like that. Um those standard dimensions just so that I had a placeholder and it was on the plan. Uh but so that's I'm going to say the final location is to to be determined once I

241
01:08:58.640 --> 01:09:14.159
understand what the the need and the capacity of that tank is >> that me not knowing about. So is that a common thing to have it located in around the area of use or is it further away?

242
01:09:14.159 --> 01:09:29.679
>> Not usually. There's usually a setback required for an above ground tank. It may end up going underground. I think that's actually what it's it's called and I'm thinking about this. It's called out on the plan as an underground tank. So the only thing that you'll see above ground would be that sort of three foot diameter black hood we'll call it with a

243
01:09:29.679 --> 01:09:44.480
with a lid you know dome lid on it and then underneath that would be the meter and the regulator and the valves and everything else. So the intent is is to put it underground that helps with the setbacks but there are there are setback requirements state requirements for this based on the size of the tank as well.

244
01:09:44.480 --> 01:10:00.640
So it's not sort of a uniform thing. >> I'm sorry. Can I piggy back on that? I thought I I heard you testify earlier that the tank was going to go in the building. >> I said inside the fence there. >> Inside the fence. Okay. Thank you. >> Y

245
01:10:00.640 --> 01:10:18.320
>> No. Well, that's why that's why I'm asking. Thank you. >> The 1500gallon propane tank is like small submarine. >> Yeah. >> That's a big tank. >> It is. >> Oil tank is 250. >> Yes. Typically, you would bury 1500 gallon tank. You wouldn't put it on the

246
01:10:18.320 --> 01:10:36.040
surface, especially here, right? Because it's you're gonna have people kind of walking around that area in grass. So, that's mostly where my my head goes to is from the safety perspective. Sure. There's requirements to make sure that it's safe, but it's convenient.

247
01:10:37.040 --> 01:10:53.040
>> Well, typically the hatch that Matt was describing has a lock on. So, you're going to lock that so nobody can get in where the regulator is and all that stuff. Um thank the other question that I had was just around the well. Um, so I guess

248
01:10:53.040 --> 01:11:09.920
I mean I heard what you said about um trying to keep the same level talking about just the potential from mixing, right? So I guess my question is what's the backup if if there's no

249
01:11:09.920 --> 01:11:26.239
ability to use the well I know has to be assessed that like there's a lot of work that has to be done there potential conflict but what is that >> a backup plan is to go 100% domestic from the water department here in the burrow and that's not out of the

250
01:11:26.239 --> 01:11:43.679
ordinary um it sounds like a big task all task to fill up a swimming pool doesn't happen that often throughout the year Um I'm sure that one of the YMCA members can speak to that more than I can. Um there's uh and just to to educate the board a little bit and I've been involved with two or three other

251
01:11:43.679 --> 01:12:00.320
YMCA with in internal pools, interior pools. Uh there's a there's a backwash process that happens throughout the day with the filters and everything else. So that all has to be vetted with the sewer authority. Um there may be a need for and I think that's on here um a tank to

252
01:12:00.320 --> 01:12:17.440
allow uh any particulate matter uh to fall out after it's after the filters are cleaned and everything else. So there there is a process that needs to be undertaken. Uh from what I understand the Y has hired um they haven't started yet. We're we're going to get through the planning board meeting tonight u

253
01:12:17.440 --> 01:12:33.760
consultant to do all the full design. the pool that you see on this plan is the pool that's going to end up there. Um or something very very very close to it. It's not going to change much. Um but that that'll all be sized. All that'll be worked out once those sizes and gallon capacities are are known.

254
01:12:33.760 --> 01:12:49.360
We'll be then we'll start having those convers with the sewer authority. Um, and then I think this is probably a question for somebody else. Keep me honest here, but I was wondering, you talked about the operational time of day

255
01:12:49.360 --> 01:13:04.000
a little bit of year, but it sounds like we're kind of assuming that. Is that something that somebody else? >> Yeah. Yeah, we'll have I'm not an expert in that. We'll definitely have an expert come talk about that. >> Okay. Appreciate it. >> Just add on. So, you're putting a

256
01:13:04.000 --> 01:13:22.000
propane tank by the the one area over there and then the pool pumps are where? >> The there's an existing pump house back here. That's >> So, like if you put heaters in, the heaters would go back near the pump house. >> That's correct. Yeah. >> So, since you're doing all this work on

257
01:13:22.000 --> 01:13:39.120
the site, would you be bringing gas lines or was this something now you come back and say that's going to expand with the heaters over there? We'll we'll run um I think the intent is from the Y to run what we need to now for future potential future

258
01:13:39.120 --> 01:13:55.040
development >> underground future just have a cap or whatever. >> Absolutely. Okay. >> Yeah. I should add uh it is on the plans that we are adding a site in Florida to the pump house. The pump house is undersized for modern pumps and filters and everything else. It's um it's kind

259
01:13:55.040 --> 01:14:11.280
of like a cellar almost the way it is now. You walk it's subterranean. You walk down a set of stairs to get into it. is below kind of below grade sticks up a little bit above grade about 3 or 4 feet. Uh we're going to build a wood frame um second floor to it so that we can uh expand the footprint that way.

260
01:14:11.280 --> 01:14:27.120
And the reason for that is that um we are with the wetlands behind us. We're trying to be sensitive to that that environmentally sensitive area and don't want to expand that footprint um for that that building in that particular area. The only way to do it is come up variable. It's not going to be that big

261
01:14:27.120 --> 01:14:42.480
of a deal. Just wanted to point that out. >> And if they were going for this town water for drinking with the kitchen area or whatever, there's the closest is where is where? >> Um, actually the closest tie in is

262
01:14:42.480 --> 01:14:58.800
closer than I thought. There's a set of water valves that sit right here. There's an 8 in and a 10in line that come into the school property and then snake their way through the school property. So we'd come all the way up and tie in the driveway and that's that's how it's shown on the plan. Okay. That's based on some preliminary, as I said, we had some preliminary

263
01:14:58.800 --> 01:15:14.880
conversations with the water authority and the sewer department just to make sure that this use wasn't this um restarting this pool up wasn't going to blow them out of the water as far as needs and services and everything else. >> Okay. >> When you said here, just for the record, that's what access drive on

264
01:15:14.880 --> 01:15:34.239
>> uh off of actually shown. Yeah. What would be the overall height of that building to be at the same level? >> As far as the the pool house, sorry, the pump the pump house, we didn't bring our architect with us tonight. So, I will pretend to be an

265
01:15:34.239 --> 01:15:52.640
architect on split sand. >> It's I'm going to say it's probably like a 10 foot addition on the top. >> There should have been elevations uh included in the uh packet as well. I don't have any dimensions on that.

266
01:15:52.640 --> 01:16:09.840
>> There's no dimensions on the drawing. >> It's essentially second a second story on it. So, I'm going to say 10 ft clear inside, but it looks like it's got a little bit of a pitch through to it. >> No, be it be two two stories, but it's

267
01:16:09.840 --> 01:16:32.480
three quarters away% now. >> Yeah. Yes. >> Um, so the first question that Mr. Perez asked you was what were the historical uses? You never answered that question. You just gave a 1963 and then it closed

268
01:16:32.480 --> 01:16:49.440
in in 2018, but you never actually talked about the uses. >> I couldn't speak to what it what it was before the pool. Um, I'm not sure what that use was. I do know that the pool was open in 1963. Just reading it off the sign today. It was a swim club. >> Yeah. But I'm not sure what the use of the

269
01:16:49.440 --> 01:17:05.600
site was prior to that. >> Oh, I I I do know there's a Facebook page. I've done some research on it. There was a swim team. It was certainly open to the uh community during the summer, but I haven't done that type of research. That's outside of my my expertise. >> You're in camp with the Fington American

270
01:17:05.600 --> 01:17:21.280
Camp. >> Sure. >> Gave some lessons. Anything else? >> No, that's I'm speaking to the point that I didn't do any research on the history of of It was basically >> I mean basically it was a

271
01:17:21.280 --> 01:17:38.320
>> a swim club that had the normal swim club things like a swim team and a snack bar and a camp and swim lessons and open hours of swim. Do you know what the hours of the school? >> I I don't know. No, I know there was a

272
01:17:38.320 --> 01:17:54.159
dive team because there were there's a diving end >> they were going to take out uh and two diving boards. two of the spring diving boards there. I think there might have even been a high dive at one point. >> It was a high dive, >> right? But beyond that, I'm not sure how that will function prior to us being

273
01:17:54.159 --> 01:18:10.719
involved. >> Oh, actually accessory building height limit in this zone is 28 ft. >> You're right. >> Oh, we're not we're not getting anywhere close. >> No, we're Thank you.

274
01:18:10.719 --> 01:18:27.600
That's all. I just wanted to see if you could establish what the original uses were. >> I do have members of the YMCA that may be able to speak to that. >> Okay. >> All right. Um, no other board questions. Okay. Any members of the public with questions for this testimony given?

275
01:18:27.600 --> 01:18:43.840
>> I have a question regarding the procedure. I have some comments and concerns from residents of Banell Street myself. I lived here when the pool was in operation. >> Yeah. if but I have picked up some specific questions here that might be cruising to answer. So do I lose my time

276
01:18:43.840 --> 01:18:59.040
later to >> so if you want to ask questions please feel free I'm going to need you to just uh identify yourself and use the mic that'd be great. Um and I'm just going to say make sure there are questions. Yes. >> And then you will have your time later for open comments.

277
01:18:59.040 --> 01:19:16.159
>> My name is Thomas Fresha. I live at 52 Banell Street. Uh my question first is about the designation here of on this drawing. You said you this is a park and that is true. There's some park area there. There's also a foot path that leads to the larger area park on this

278
01:19:16.159 --> 01:19:31.440
side. Um I live on Ben Street. Even in the summer I can see some of the lights from these apartments. The winter clearly, but even in the summer. So I'm concerned about the lighting, how it will be directed. Um, and is the lighting going to be onto

279
01:19:31.440 --> 01:19:52.239
the pool area also or just onto the parking area? >> Um, so the parking lot light that we discussed uh earlier uh hoping to be able to raise the uh the light poles up to 22 feet. We're using low wattage uh

280
01:19:52.239 --> 01:20:09.760
LED lights that uh the source can't be visible uh which is going to reduce the glare and everything else. not going to see that you're not going to see lighting um deep through there. Um but we'll do our best to uh reduce that impact. Um as far as lighting around the pool, we do we are showing some short

281
01:20:09.760 --> 01:20:25.520
lights, so like 10 foot, 11 foot, I don't have the number in front of me. Um pedestrian lights, I'll call them. So they're they're smaller. It's more for security. The intent isn't to have uh after hour at dusk um you know, parties and things like that u at this facility.

282
01:20:25.520 --> 01:20:40.560
So, um, you're not going to see much light after dark, uh, coming from the facility. >> Yeah. I'd assume there'd be some things that the lights would be turned off say 15 minutes after the pool closes for the evening or some rules like that. >> Yeah. So, let that'll probably we can if

283
01:20:40.560 --> 01:20:56.320
it's not given that question is not answered by the operations person, I want you to ask it again. >> So, yeah. Um, >> can you explain a little bit more about the 8-foot fence seems to be on the side facing the apartments um on Benell Street. there still or there was in the

284
01:20:56.320 --> 01:21:11.440
past I've lived there as I said for a number of years cool's operation noise coming through are there any plans for any further fencing buffers more vegetation to reduce noise coming towards Panel Street side most of this discussion has been talking about the

285
01:21:11.440 --> 01:21:27.280
apartment side or the north side there isn't a plan right now to add vegetation along the outside of the fence on the BL street side um you asked about the 8ft fence there's a sixoot fence that runs around the perimeter Now, uh we're going to we're requesting uh permission to

286
01:21:27.280 --> 01:21:42.800
raise that to 8 ft uh just for for better security because we have people that break in pretty easily on a on a regular basis. But as far as vegetation on the south side of the site, there there are plans right now to enhance any of that vegetation. Um especially not

287
01:21:42.800 --> 01:21:59.040
inside of the uh inside of the pool area, inside of the the perimeter fence. regarding the noise. Um will the Y before this development well I guess when the development is built or how let me rephrase this. Um are there any noise

288
01:21:59.040 --> 01:22:13.920
studies that could be conducted perhaps on an annual basis after the pool is in operation to determine um I saw that the houses within 200 feet of the property are getting notices. There's a number of houses all the odd numbered houses on

289
01:22:13.920 --> 01:22:30.560
the north side of Pell Street. Um, what actions can you take to ensure that the noise levels will be acceptable when the pool's operation at peak times? I'm not sure what the the burrow's noise

290
01:22:30.560 --> 01:22:46.800
ordinance is. Uh, the intent will be to meet that. I don't expect to exceed any of those those allowable noise levels uh at the the property line, but um I I can defer to the board. I can defer to the YMCA on on answering that any further if you need something further on that. Mr. Paris, did you have a someone who's

291
01:22:46.800 --> 01:23:02.159
going to talk about other pool operations? Is that one of your >> Yes, we have Miss Fine who can talk about uh operations with respect to the YMCA as well as uh some of the intended uh programming for the site. >> But is there going to be test my question is there going to be something

292
01:23:02.159 --> 01:23:19.440
testimony about other pools or just the Y in general? >> Uh correct. I believe we have testimony with respect to other pools as well. >> Excellent. Also add >> that's my question. moment. Thank you. >> Just just set it on the table there.

293
01:23:19.440 --> 01:23:37.520
>> Thank you, sir. Any other members of the public with questions? >> Okay. So, we've had we usually take a break. Um it's 8:24. We've been sitting for a while. So, let's take a quick let's take a five minute break now. Um because it sounds like you're ready for the next witness. Kind of reset. All

294
01:23:37.520 --> 01:24:06.560
right. Okay, I'm gonna bring us back uh into session if >> um would you mind just refollowing the role to make sure everyone's back? >> Y >> Mayor Carol, >> Mr. Campion

295
01:24:06.560 --> 01:24:23.040
>> here. Council of Vice President Angelhart >> here. Mr. Dashna >> here. >> Miss Gin >> here. >> Mr. Schlanganger >> here. >> Mr. F >> here.

296
01:24:23.040 --> 01:24:38.159
>> Miss Swingle >> here. >> Miss Whitesman >> here. >> Mr. Hayne >> here. >> Mr. Papers >> here. >> Attorney Kazinski >> here. >> Engineer Clara >> here. >> Planner Kyle >> here. >> Engineer Traman >> here.

297
01:24:38.159 --> 01:25:00.560
Thank you. Okay, so M. Perez, uh, your next witness. >> Yes. Going to call >> if you could uh, if you could provide your first name, last name, and your, uh, current role with the River Crossing YMCA. >> Sure. So, good evening everyone. It's

298
01:25:00.560 --> 01:25:16.639
Trisha Finel, and, um, I am with the River Crossing YMCA. I serve as chief operations officer. Uh, Eison Frank EI, and as in Nancy, T H E L. >> I'm sorry, >> I am the chief operations officer for

299
01:25:16.639 --> 01:25:35.520
the River Crossing YMCA. Um, I've been with the YMCA for 28 years. I've been with Rivercrossing YMCA for 15. >> All right. And uh for the first question uh can you provide some uh some background as to uh what is currently

300
01:25:35.520 --> 01:25:52.880
anticipated as far as programming um for uh this uh location as well as the contemplated operating season. >> Sure. So just to start out with we are incredibly grateful for this opportunity to bring the Flemington pool back to life. I can tell you that when we are um

301
01:25:52.880 --> 01:26:07.600
when we entered our feasibility campaign which is just interviewing you know potential donors, community supporters both for both the Deer Path branch as well as the Flemington pool. What came out of that feasibility study was when are you going to get the pool open? Never mind the branch. When are you

302
01:26:07.600 --> 01:26:23.280
going to get that pool open? Um having uh two children myself, I live right in the Grandon neighborhood um on Muny. Having children myself that are 13 and nine and hearing all the excitement from the families of this pool reopening is also a blessing to be able to do this.

303
01:26:23.280 --> 01:26:40.719
We are experienced in both um managing and owning pools um managing outdoor pools. One specific in Coopersburg, Pennsylvania, it's called the Sele. And I can tell you that in managing that pool for the past two years um we believe that we are experienced and

304
01:26:40.719 --> 01:26:55.840
versed in understanding what it is that the community needs. And we did break that down um uh breaking that down for you this evening. So you are correct. You're looking at a Memorial Day to Labor Day um operation. We would not be

305
01:26:55.840 --> 01:27:11.440
open Monday through Friday until the children are released from the school. Um ideally the Flemington Maritan School District. Once um they're completed with their last day, we'll move into that Monday through Friday operation. our hours. Um, again, I'm basing this on

306
01:27:11.440 --> 01:27:26.320
what's been successful at the pool that we're currently operating in in Coopersburg. Generally, you're looking at a 6 a.m. to an 8:00 p.m. Generally, um, sunrise in the summer um, is at 5:30 a.m., which gives our morning lifeguards

307
01:27:26.320 --> 01:27:43.920
the opportunity to come in in the light that they need to be able to open securely. um as well as closing at 8 keeps us safe and also in dusk day like you know close to that daylight dusk hour so that we are closing um in a safe timing as well. Your weekends again

308
01:27:43.920 --> 01:28:00.639
generally most outdoor pools are around that 12 to 8 open to the community with morning programming that happens there. Um as terms of programming itself we of course will have you know the majority of the time will be recreational use. We

309
01:28:00.639 --> 01:28:16.000
are very excited to bring a splash pad. If you are on ladies of Hunter County as I am, a splash pad is uh highly highly desired. Comes up all the time and there are none in this area. Um at least not within a you know half hour drive time.

310
01:28:16.000 --> 01:28:32.320
Um so to be able to not only offer recreational swimming for our what we like to call cradle, you know, cradle to um retirement, right? to be able to offer for our littlest ones the splash pads with families as well as then for our seniors to be able to come in um for

311
01:28:32.320 --> 01:28:47.360
our water aerobics etc. During that during that recreation time we will be offering swim lessons. We will have a swim team there. Um and we will also be offering free to the community what we call our safety around water program. Um, I think that is

312
01:28:47.360 --> 01:29:04.239
going to be um one of the most incredible things that we do at that pool where every single child in um Hunter County, but specifically I I believe we're going to get from the walking district do come in, they receive a free swim test. If they do not pass that swim test, they receive free

313
01:29:04.239 --> 01:29:20.480
swim lessons from the graciousness of our donors to get them swim safe. Um you would be surprised. We have 6,000 children in our summer camp program right now. Um the percentage of those children that fail the swim test hover around 25 to 30%. Um so it's it's um a

314
01:29:20.480 --> 01:29:38.880
surprising statistic but one that we're we're very eager to serve there at the pool as well. So we will have feed based programming, we will have a swim team and then we will have our donor funded programs there too. >> Uh can you provide some uh testimony with respect to memberships? What does

315
01:29:38.880 --> 01:29:55.520
that typically look like? Are there any limitations with respect to memberships uh depending on the site? >> Yes. So right now and there is a crisis that's happening nationally around outdoor pools are closing. The Flemington pool is is is an example but is happening everywhere because you have

316
01:29:55.520 --> 01:30:10.080
local boards that are managing pools and don't understand or do not have the capacity to save for a rainy day in a capex program like we have at the Y. Um, so you do what we are seeing is a healthy membership is anywhere hovering

317
01:30:10.080 --> 01:30:26.639
between 450 to 500 units. So that's rooftops or households. Now what I can tell you um again not only in Coopersburg but at other outdoor pools you don't see 400 to 50 to 500 families there. It's just like the Y. You come in and you join and honestly a successful

318
01:30:26.639 --> 01:30:42.159
member comes in twice a week. That's a successful person who's exercising. Um what we're seeing again um at the Coopersburg pool is we're hovering around that 450 number, but in any given moment in the pool itself at peak you're

319
01:30:42.159 --> 01:30:59.120
looking at 30 to 40 families. Um again, um we would love to see greater numbers than that. Uh your most successful outdoor pools hover around that 900 level. I don't see us ever getting to be that high. In fact, I am

320
01:30:59.120 --> 01:31:15.440
understanding by board members um that you know where the pool was near and dear to their hearts and they were members as well that there was a waiting list and that makes sense. I can see why there was a waiting list for the Flemington pool in its heyday because you just you know we want to be careful of crowds and parking etc. Um but again

321
01:31:15.440 --> 01:31:30.639
a healthy unit type is anywhere between that 450 to 500 households. And then lastly, uh, with respect to any, uh, deliveries or loading, unloading, what does that typically look like for, uh, pool operations in other

322
01:31:30.639 --> 01:31:46.480
areas? And how would that look like at this site? >> Yeah, sure. So, you're going to receive like a weekly chemical delivery of chlorine and acid, if you will. Um, that is, uh, once a week for less than one hour, um, in a, you know, a size truck of like a boxiz truck. That also

323
01:31:46.480 --> 01:32:03.280
typically does happen in the very early morning hours. um if not by off hours. But that's that's your typical chemical chlorine delivery. There will be a snack shack there. Again, that's you know, minimal interruption. Um in terms of deliveries, you know, there are

324
01:32:03.280 --> 01:32:26.000
freezers, refrigeration, etc. So that's not as frequent as that weekly chemical delivery. >> Professionals, >> I have one question. Um, we talked about opening Monday through Friday once once school is out. Which school are we talking about? Just go ahead.

325
01:32:26.000 --> 01:32:41.040
>> I would I would just go by the I and I know all of our elementary schools have different times. Um, I I would most likely lean into Rifus' time frame because um I one of the pieces that we would be talking about is a collaboration with Riffus for sure. >> Yeah,

326
01:32:41.040 --> 01:32:57.440
>> I I think that's important in terms of if things overflow from here. nice if the school's not busy. >> Agreed. >> Yeah, >> agreed. And the other thing I'll mention too with the Y um is every single um member at scan in does fall under our

327
01:32:57.440 --> 01:33:13.040
Raptor program which is the same as the school districts as well. >> What is that? >> Raptor. >> So Raptor is again we're we're sc um scanning your license if you will for any type of um child child predator etc. So when you go into any any school here

328
01:33:13.040 --> 01:33:31.239
your your license is scanned for that purpose. We do the same thing. We have that technology as well. It's child protection policy. >> Jay, did you have other questions around operations? Maybe. >> That was pretty thorough. Um, I guess the mic.

329
01:33:33.040 --> 01:33:49.280
>> I think that was pretty thorough. My main point I already brought up was just that overlap with the school operation. And >> I liked hearing that you're not going Monday through Friday until school's out. and that you will uh that you will

330
01:33:49.280 --> 01:34:06.560
um stick, you know, tie into that specific school schedule. >> Yeah. We're also understanding that there was a partnership with Rivus where the students did also use the pool um in the months of May and June. So, we would again extend that as well. >> Yeah, they did that through the weekend

331
01:34:06.560 --> 01:34:22.480
class and the ending school year celebration. >> That's great. >> One question. uh the the application that's being presented they're showing that they're providing you required number of parking that would meet our ordinance standards is based on your

332
01:34:22.480 --> 01:34:38.239
experience is our ordinance standards adequate for the type of programs you're operating I would say based on my experience yes by traffic activity however we we have every intention on again collaborating with RFI to see if we could share

333
01:34:38.239 --> 01:34:54.159
parking lot as well >> can't speak for them yet but that that is we would look get a reciprocity model. Um maybe something again like having the students come over being able to use it um complimentary in exchange for hopefully um summer summer support and parking.

334
01:34:54.159 --> 01:35:08.800
>> Yeah. >> Would there be summer swim meets? >> So what I would recommend um if if in fact right now we have our swim meets that are occurring we are a part of a summer league. Those swim meets happen out of the Deer Path branch. So we can

335
01:35:08.800 --> 01:35:26.560
do that. Um, and what I mean by if we can do that, if if for some reason um the school says no, we cannot use the lot, then I would make that recommendation to keep the swim beats at the Deer Path branch. I wouldn't move them over to the outdoor pool. >> One of the waiverss you're asking the

336
01:35:26.560 --> 01:35:42.000
board to grant from a site plan standpoint would be that we would require parking lot of this nature to have curving grounding, which serves a number of purposes. One of them obviously is to keep people from parking in Harris they're not supposed to park lacking that in this particular

337
01:35:42.000 --> 01:35:57.840
application. One of the concerns might be that if you had an event where you needed overflow parking and albeit even if you have an agreement to park up in the school >> people are people and that's 400 ft away and you know pulling off other would you have a methodology of controlling that?

338
01:35:57.840 --> 01:36:13.040
>> We do. So we we we have this happening right now out of our Doylestown branch because Central Bucks uh High School is literally the share of the parking lot and so you would be surprised by the amount of students that come, you know, they park in the lot and walk to school. >> We know exactly what

339
01:36:13.040 --> 01:36:28.880
>> Yeah. So I know I'm actually I heard 7-Eleven it's like $500 you can get a spot there. I'm like shocked by that. But um um what I can say is what will not happen is it's not cost-effective to have a staff member standing there policing that. However, what we can do

340
01:36:28.880 --> 01:36:45.679
is upon joining as a member, um, we can, you know, gain the license plate number. We can look at hand hang tags. So, if in fact as staff do do a walkth through versus surveillance, we'll be able to note the license plate that was violating the parking and then be able to get in touch with that member. Yeah.

341
01:36:45.679 --> 01:37:04.040
And we'll make sure that upon registration that there's a handbook and rules and regulations attached. >> You're good. Any anything else from our discussions? Okay, board members with questions. Remote folks first.

342
01:37:04.320 --> 01:37:20.719
Dennis, you're good. Karen, let's see. Have a good >> No questions. >> I'm good. >> Justin, you're good. >> I'm good. >> Start over you, Mark.

343
01:37:20.719 --> 01:37:37.040
Thank you. A couple um The I'm sorry, the name of that other pool was Coopertown. >> Uh, it's called Celico Pool. So, it's the Southern Lehi Community Pool. It's in Coopersburg, Pennsylvania. >> Is that in a town or is it Yes,

344
01:37:37.040 --> 01:37:52.960
>> it's in a town. Is it similar to Florida? >> Very much so. Yes. >> And um so you talked about the hours of operation starting at six o'clock in Florida. That's just for your staff. So, believe it or not, there are plenty of adults, especially if they're part of a

345
01:37:52.960 --> 01:38:09.280
master swim team, that love to swim in outdoor pools. So, what what we do in Coopersburg is we begin at our 6:00 a.m. opening is adult lap swim only. Then in comes the swim team around that like 7:30, 8 hour. They get a couple hours, you do some swim lessons, slight break,

346
01:38:09.280 --> 01:38:26.239
and then we open up for Rex swim. But your early morning hours as adult lap. >> Okay. I know. at seven. So your chemicals I I'm not my campaign may know better than me, but um we do not allow like garbage to be taken before 7

347
01:38:26.239 --> 01:38:41.920
o'clock in the morning. I don't think we allow deliveries to be before 7 either. >> Okay. >> Um so you talk about the chemicals coming in early. >> Yeah. So we can make sure that again like we can control that um in terms of timing of delivery. For sure. Where

348
01:38:41.920 --> 01:38:57.920
>> is the garbage on the site and how often is it going to get picked up? It's in the I won't speak to frequency of pickup, but it's in the western side of the park near there. >> Oh, yeah. By the by the uh near the over by the meter. And how often is it going

349
01:38:57.920 --> 01:39:14.320
to get picked up? >> I would say weekly. You're going to need it weekly. Especially with the snack shack, you're going to need a weekly garbage pickup. >> You need it more. You need it more. Get it more. >> Uh right now, I think we're weekly at SoCo. >> Yeah. Weekly. Um, and

350
01:39:14.320 --> 01:39:30.159
what are the long-term plans? >> What are the long-term plans? >> This is it. This is the plan. >> This is the plan. Um, for sure. The long-term plan is to to have a healthy, vibrant pool to be able to continue to save because again, as you know, as

351
01:39:30.159 --> 01:39:45.920
we're saying, I don't I don't want to see us here again, you know, 50 years later where you can no longer afford to keep it operating. If you're closing at 8:00, most of the summer doesn't get dark until after 8:00. >> Yeah. >> Or 9:00.

352
01:39:45.920 --> 01:40:00.800
Why Why do you need these outdoor lights? >> I'm I'm understand. Is it for park for the parking lot? >> Nobody's going to be there. >> Again, I would say just complying with ordinances of what we do need to to your point in the pool. Um from the early

353
01:40:00.800 --> 01:40:18.800
morning hours until 8, there is plenty of sun, right? We just don't need glare. So, we don't necessarily need that lights to safely lifeguard the pool. I think it's just what are the ordinances for for parking lots or outdoor amenities that >> grab the wireless.

354
01:40:18.800 --> 01:40:43.119
>> You can just up here. >> Okay. Oh, the intent of the parking lot light is to light. We are going to be open from Memorial Day to Labor Day. So, you're going to have time just prior to Memorial Day and just after Labor Day and sometimes in between where dusk isn't bright at 8:00, it might be at

355
01:40:43.119 --> 01:40:59.920
6:30. Um, so the parking lot lights are there to light the parking lot in the event that there's still staff there after hours. >> So, do people swim in the dark? >> People would not swim in the dark. The only time we would be there after hours would be uh cleaning up for the evening. Um,

356
01:40:59.920 --> 01:41:17.520
>> so are your are your hours 6 to 8 or they 6 to dusk >> or 8 at the latest. >> I wouldn't again like human behavior. I would definitely put a time frame on that versus dusk, right? Dusk could mean one to one to somebody else. So I would

357
01:41:17.520 --> 01:41:33.679
say definitely I would say in the general what we're seeing as success is that 6:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. is a safe time frame. The sun is up. But you don't >> if if what you're getting at is is whether or not we're going to have after hour or after dusk activities in the pool area

358
01:41:33.679 --> 01:41:50.400
>> dusk to 8. Yeah. In the very early spring, you know, the early summer part. >> Sure. >> Where people may it may be still maybe dark out, but it's before 8:00. >> So, the intent with the lighting around the pool itself isn't to light the pool for for for a safe enough atmosphere to

359
01:41:50.400 --> 01:42:06.159
swim after dusk. It's there for safety purposes for staff to to be cleaning up, putting chairs away, moving chemicals, whatever they do after after the patrons leave. >> Will people be allowed to rent this pool for a party for a private party?

360
01:42:06.159 --> 01:42:22.000
>> So, we do um again, I would if depending on the membership and how strong the membership is, we do do birthday parties, we'll do Cub Scout testing, you name it at at the pool, we do do that. However, if in

361
01:42:22.000 --> 01:42:37.280
fact, and I hope we are successful in our membership drive, may not we may not be able to is what I'm trying to say. >> Um, no, that's fair. >> Definitely not. Um, no off hours. I we do not permit swimming in the dark. That's for sure. >> So, so there's no like adult party starting at six o'clock at night catered

362
01:42:37.280 --> 01:42:53.920
and then you go swimming after. These are would be like kids birthday parties or >> like during birthday parties. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> I'll give you just one quick example. We did a FIFA watch party out of Coopersburg on the grounds of the grass of the pool. The pool itself was closed because it was dark, but we had, you

363
01:42:53.920 --> 01:43:13.040
know, we were showing the game on the grass. >> Okay. >> We won't operate. We won't we do not allow anyone to swim in dark. >> So, so there's no swimming in the dark, but there still could be after hour. It would it would be rare such as FIFA,

364
01:43:13.040 --> 01:43:26.159
>> but but no, I would try to stick to the operating hours for sure. >> Okay. >> But if there was an evening event where the pool is closed and the and there is some sort of after hours activity um

365
01:43:26.159 --> 01:43:43.360
that is after dusk. um those um that um event would still be subject to our noise order which ends at >> 10:00 at night I believe.

366
01:43:43.360 --> 01:43:59.840
>> That is correct. And no swim. >> A lot of times there's a condition about lighting going off an hour after people leave the premises. >> That's one of my questions. Yeah. And it does say uh sun sun sets Memorial Day 8:15, 8:30.

367
01:43:59.840 --> 01:44:16.320
>> Okay. Different parts, different areas, but right around there, >> right? So, if they're working for another hour, then you know, you're talking 9:30 when the lights go out once the last person leaves. And >> so, are your lights going to go out after people leave? >> Well, we said for security there would

368
01:44:16.320 --> 01:44:31.760
be like um >> the little pathway lights are going to stay on, but the parking lot lights >> I think I think there's a provision in the ordinance that they have to be cut by a certain percentage. >> 30% >> 30% If if we were to leave them on 24/7,

369
01:44:31.760 --> 01:44:49.320
leave them on the entire evening, we could certainly time them to go off at say 10 o'clock, you know, that way we we absolutely guarantee that everyone's out of out of the parking lot. Staff's out of the parking lot. They're out of the pool area. Uh that type of thing.

370
01:44:51.920 --> 01:45:09.119
>> I have two questions. The 8:00 is that everybody out of the pool pools closed kind of at all time or is 8:00 everybody out of the facility except staff. >> So typically what we do is there is like a you know some warning some warning bells, right? That that along with Adult

371
01:45:09.119 --> 01:45:24.560
Swim, the favorite the favorite two things that you know kids just love to hear. Um but we do um typically like what we're seeing our staff are generally out by the time they're they do bag up garbage. They're throwing it out. they're taking pool readings, lane lines, they're out of there by 8:30. It

372
01:45:24.560 --> 01:45:40.800
doesn't take them long and they're because they're doing some of that work before the pool actually closes. We always get the stragglers. So, I I would say I would feel safe saying everyone's exited including both members and staff by 8:30 at the latest. >> And then my second question, and this

373
01:45:40.800 --> 01:45:57.639
may have been hard, I may have missed it. for the entrance coming in off the side of the school for the hours when a pool is not in operation. Will that be closed off somehow to prevent anybody >> Oh yeah, for sure.

374
01:45:58.320 --> 01:46:13.920
>> Uh on the snack bar, is it going to be cooking anything? Is it premade food or >> um you're looking at fair food, so like a hot dog grill. Um I wouldn't be

375
01:46:13.920 --> 01:46:30.400
heating up generally like you're heating up pizza you're you know but um >> so there won't be like hot food. >> Yeah, we would we would actually we would look to outsource if possible. >> Yeah. Well like health quest they outsource. >> Yeah.

376
01:46:30.400 --> 01:46:47.679
>> Um my other question was are there and I might have missed this. Are there speakers um like is there going to be music being played? FBA like where what is that situation? >> We do um of course all with all within

377
01:46:47.679 --> 01:47:03.040
you know the noise code if you will. I will say does music you know create a more pleasurable experience? Yes it does but we also don't want it to sound like for lack of a better word like a frat party either right like you want you want music but not but at a level that's reasonable.

378
01:47:03.040 --> 01:47:19.280
>> Is any like there >> to prevent music still onto the neighbors? >> Yes. Sure. >> Like a pleasurable experience for your I can hear. I can understand for sure.

379
01:47:19.280 --> 01:47:37.280
>> Yeah. And and we're like yeah controlled by >> Yes. >> Yes. And we we want to be a collaborative respectful partner in everything. So I mean I appreciate this gentleman coming out for the residency. I do. >> Yeah. He's the coach they had.

380
01:47:37.280 --> 01:48:05.840
So that's kind of interested. Yeah, we will control it. >> The PA question was already answered. I guess just you said your chemical deliveries, the chemicals are going in the pump house. >> That's correct. kind of brought in by drum or is it like you're going to have

381
01:48:05.840 --> 01:48:23.920
a 500gallon tank there that's filled or >> so right now where we are I don't know if you want to I can I know that Frank hasn't been sworn in um >> we can we can >> we can we can we can we can also defer this questions if he's going to get us

382
01:48:23.920 --> 01:48:41.520
>> I'll push it to >> yeah that's all I have >> so any other followup professional questions. Yeah. >> Yeah. There's one observation. If your intention is to have some sort of a security gate, it needs to be shown on your site plan. Currently isn't.

383
01:48:41.520 --> 01:48:57.280
>> So, what I can what I maybe I misinterpreted. What I can share is that any access to the pool will h will have to be there cannot be any access to the water when we're not there. >> Driveway. There are gate. No, there won't be a gate across the driveway. I think the security gate that she was referring to would be at the entrance to

384
01:48:57.280 --> 01:49:13.119
the building in addition on the perimeter fence as well that were showing on the site plans. >> So, so we're not talking about a you know swinging gate of the driveway. >> No, I apologize. I just meant there would there would not be any access to

385
01:49:13.119 --> 01:49:30.000
the pool itself. So to follow up on that question, if the driveway is open, are there any other security features in the parking lot to prov >> shenanigans? >> That's a good word. Thank you. >> Parking lot lighting. >> Yeah,

386
01:49:30.000 --> 01:49:51.199
>> after hour parking lot lighting surveance, >> right? And we can incorporate cameras and surveillance. >> We would. >> Is there a reason why you're not putting up a gate and closing the site off at night? I mean, >> it was a different time.

387
01:49:51.199 --> 01:50:09.440
>> It hasn't really been discussed. We'd certainly have to coordinate that with the fire department for 24hour access with Knox or whatever, >> right? I don't I don't know. It's absolutely >> given it's not a high traffic. It's not like it's a retailer or anything like that. We're getting a lot of traffic

388
01:50:09.440 --> 01:50:27.520
coming in and going out. I think that uh really haven't had a need to have that internal discussion about closing off that entrance. >> Yeah, I think my biggest concern is that if the entrance isn't secured some way, then there's some additional security measures in the parking lot area itself

389
01:50:27.520 --> 01:50:46.400
because unfortunately, you know, things happen, >> right? >> So, the buildings will all be locked or fence preferred around the pool itself. We will have camera surveillance in the lighting. >> Are there cameras on the site? Is that

390
01:50:46.400 --> 01:51:02.560
something? >> Um, that wouldn't typically be >> usually doesn't go on the site plan, right? >> Not normally. >> We've we've had a handful of applications where we've had positioners, but those are really bad. >> No, the dispensaries, too. >> So, that's important.

391
01:51:02.560 --> 01:51:19.440
>> Yeah. >> Okay. >> I just have one question, and I might have missed it. You started talking a little bit about after hours activities. Is that a you're planning on having after hours activities? >> We are not. We do. Okay. >> Yeah, we're not. However, like again in

392
01:51:19.440 --> 01:51:34.719
being a collaborative partner if there could be a community group, there could be a school, there could be you know that would we would like to be able to entertain that, but we're not building that into our plan. >> Okay. So maybe if the board's so inclined that there's some sort of

393
01:51:34.719 --> 01:51:51.040
notification application request of the burough council something if that is just just to account for how that works because if we're going to start putting hours of operation in lighting off but then leave that open or a possibility

394
01:51:51.040 --> 01:52:07.520
down the road we want to work better. >> Is this going to be members only? Can you do buy a day pass there? You can buy a day pass to be a guest. That's actually um you need to be able to access us. You need to be able to provide guest passes. >> Do you do you need to go with a member

395
01:52:07.520 --> 01:52:22.400
or can somebody just come in for the day? >> I would advise to be able to come in for the day. >> Okay. Because I'm just there is Middle Sex Burough. They have a pool community pool right next to municipal complex by the high school.

396
01:52:22.400 --> 01:52:40.239
I'm sorry. And they do things like on other videos they might do a swim >> Yeah. picnic thing and they just it's a fee >> and that's fine. I'm just saying if we're gonna put restrictions in. >> Right. Right. No, >> so maybe it it falls under the We've got

397
01:52:40.239 --> 01:52:57.040
testimony about normal operation. We got testimony that they're not planning after hours activities. Maybe it needs to be in coordination with public safety officials or something if there's anything outside of hours or something. >> That's what I'm saying. There's got to be something, >> right?

398
01:53:04.880 --> 01:53:19.760
Exactly. >> Because you know like you're >> you're next to the fireworks >> and they should and they should have their hand right having a a fireworks >> party in a pool >> and then when the firework goes out. So

399
01:53:19.760 --> 01:53:35.840
>> we might have community, she specifically said community groups of partners. We might have community groups that >> might want to take advantage of I don't think we want to the events that be the resolution that they have get on the

400
01:53:35.840 --> 01:53:54.400
events committee's blessing. >> There is an application. and it goes to the clerk and it's basically mostly our professionals and um uh the bid director sits on it as well. Um >> this would be outside of normal operations.

401
01:53:54.400 --> 01:54:12.960
>> I mean that's like you know or whatever just >> I was just wanted to to ask that part of clarification. This is just with respect to special events after hours. any events after the hours, you know, h well, let's make it broad,

402
01:54:12.960 --> 01:54:29.840
out of season and out of hours, right? Because if there was some reason you wanted to do or no, >> I think you could have in season after hours >> after after 8:00 p.m. >> They they've established that the pool hours

403
01:54:29.840 --> 01:54:45.679
>> and 8:00 p.m. Correct. So, anything anything outside of the 6 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. hours that they've established that the pool is open wouldn't be for any other special >> and the weekend 12 to 8 and the Memorial

404
01:54:45.679 --> 01:55:01.920
Day to Labor Day >> but at night 12 to 8 >> and you're good with those >> actually since we're talking uh the different events and such just want to throw it

405
01:55:01.920 --> 01:55:17.440
out that during the fireworks that we just had that street is closed from like part No, I'm saying 6:00 at night. So like people can't get in or out of there. So just that's part of the permit

406
01:55:17.440 --> 01:55:33.199
for the night just closure day that day for us to allow for the firework party for sure. >> Okay. >> Can I can I ask a question kind of related to um town events too? Collaborative such as the Fourth of July

407
01:55:33.199 --> 01:55:49.360
um event. Um, obviously you're willing to collaborate with Rifus. You'd be willing to collaborate with um the burrow on special events like like the 4th of July. >> You're also bordering a very our only

408
01:55:49.360 --> 01:56:06.400
public park as well. Um, and I'm and I know um if you're planning on collaborating with Riffus, I know they have like lacrosse tournaments and stuff at that particular location. I would assume that you, like you said, you'd like to use their parking. They probably

409
01:56:06.400 --> 01:56:22.400
would like to use your parking for those summer or those off season events. I'm wondering would the same um collaboration be uh are you willing to collaborate with the

410
01:56:22.400 --> 01:56:40.880
town for let's say there is an event at Tukamir Park like a soccer tournament at at the newly refurbished park uh newly refurbished field eventually. Um but but your fence goes along the border

411
01:56:40.880 --> 01:56:58.320
obviously for security reasons. Is uh there a possibility that um because the park does have some established um walkways areas and in particular it goes right up to the fence at one location.

412
01:56:58.320 --> 01:57:14.639
Um, and there was a long range plan done for the park where there was a a pedestrian kind of walkway that goes right to that. Is it possible that you might consider um connecting the um your

413
01:57:14.639 --> 01:57:31.840
site to the public park via a locked gate access for a possible, you know, cross access event? Obviously not accessing the pool area, but the let's say the park connecting the parking area to park itself.

414
01:57:31.840 --> 01:57:48.400
>> I'm just thinking that we might need some over overflow parking as well. >> There's a physical limitation in between our parking lot and park in the form of a drain swell that we have to traverse to get to that path. So I'm going to >> No, there's certainly not the availability there even if we were to

415
01:57:48.400 --> 01:58:04.400
tear down the fence. >> Yeah. Because of that swale. Yeah. So people can kind of walk up to the fence and kind of wait. >> Okay. The deer the deer gets >> I was gonna say there's a deer path that I walked around seeing around the edge, but you saw the job. Well, yeah, >> I'm sure we can still collaborate

416
01:58:04.400 --> 01:58:20.239
though. So, >> of course, any other word questions. >> Should it be higher than 8 ft if the deer are a big problem? >> Maybe the deer want to go swap. >> I don't know. If the deer want to go, then they're going to get stuck on that.

417
01:58:20.239 --> 01:58:45.520
fun police call it happened to be >> I think I think all these >> All right. Um any members of the public with questions for this witness on the testimony? Give it. >> Yeah. But I have micro. Sorry. >> Tom Brashio again, 52 Benel Street. Um I

418
01:58:45.520 --> 01:59:01.199
was a little confused about the hours myself. I heard Monday through Friday when school's out 6:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. Then I heard weekends 12 to 8 were community hours. What goes on in the morning on weekends? >> Yes. So in the morning what what we were proposing is um again we would be open

419
01:59:01.199 --> 01:59:18.320
to closed programming. So that would look like again your Saturday morning swim lessons, your swim team, etc. coming in Saturday morning. We were proposing again in general like a 7 a.m. at that time. >> 7 a.m. >> quiet programming. Yeah. Sundays I would we would open at 12. And on the Monday

420
01:59:18.320 --> 01:59:33.920
through Friday 6:00 to 8:00 p.m. in that morning hour 6:00 to say 8 or 9:00 a.m. would that be a silent time type thing versus um you know music announcements etc. >> You're you're correct. It's a it's a what we see there is our master swim

421
01:59:33.920 --> 01:59:48.480
team comes in. It's a quieter um you're you're just hearing you know just lap swim. There's no music playing at that time. >> It would just be adults only lap swim. >> Okay. And I I heard us talking about, you know, special events and co collaborating with the community and so

422
01:59:48.480 --> 02:00:04.639
on. Um I think there should be some limitation on the number of those. You know, you know, Tuesday nights we have the Girl Scouts special thing from 8 to 10, then we have the Boy Scouts on Thursday, then on Saturday we have whatever and so on. I think there needs to be some reasonleness taken into

423
02:00:04.639 --> 02:00:20.239
consideration for things going beyond the 8:00 p.m. time whether it's limited once a week one night in the middle of the week and weekend night but some restrict not restrictions but some good neighbor policies >> of course so I'll tell you an example of what we're doing right now we have a

424
02:00:20.239 --> 02:00:36.560
total of four events that's total of four where we we open to the community and that was really because the community was asking us to do that it wasn't that the why it was we were we were being asked >> in Coopersburg >> to four events throughout the entire

425
02:00:36.560 --> 02:00:52.159
Total Yeah, total forward. We're doing like a um like a flick and flow. We did I talked about the FIFA event that we did. Um there's like a we did a um and we're doing an end of the year like free hot dogs and ice pops, but that's during

426
02:00:52.159 --> 02:01:08.400
operations during operational hours. >> Also, will there be a cap on daily attendance or meet a capacity of whatever it is? >> We're going to have to because so just so there is a um for us uh with our insurance carrier, it's a 1 to 25. So it's one lifeguard per 25 participants.

427
02:01:08.400 --> 02:01:25.440
So again wanting to be cost effective. You want to be able to give a great experience but at the same time there's only so many lifeguards that you can have and hire. >> So what do you estimate the maximum cost be to be? >> Um as I as I was saying before we we have not yet exceeded

428
02:01:25.440 --> 02:01:42.480
that 50 to 60 number in the pool itself. We have not we have yet to exceed that. to the 20 I'm sorry the 25 is in the pool >> 1 to 25 people at the pool but only have >> correct is who's in the water >> to 25 in the pool >> but your capacity would be limited to the premises not just the pool is that

429
02:01:42.480 --> 02:01:56.719
correct >> and and what we believe to be a pleasurable experience again I'm I'm understanding that when it when the pool was in its heyday before they were I want to say around 600 family units when they were in their with a waiting list

430
02:01:56.719 --> 02:02:12.480
um I'm looking at anywhere between again if if you want to sustain financially, we're going to have to at least have 500 households. >> Well, well, family units is one thing, but as you said, people sign up, they don't show up, they come. That's right. And whatever. But my concern is, you know, what's the maximum number of

431
02:02:12.480 --> 02:02:31.199
people on site >> on Saturday afternoons or Saturdays? Is there a limit? And what will that be? >> I again I have not we have not yet faced needing to have a limit. >> Okay. Um but I can tell you within so even if we said within the water let's

432
02:02:31.199 --> 02:02:45.840
say um what what success I would say max capacity in the water if I saw 100 people in the pool um that's a that's a healthy number to get to there. Um if every child in the pool had a couple parents you know maybe you're looking at

433
02:02:45.840 --> 02:03:04.159
200 to 300 total but not we have yet to see that. I'd love to see that. that we >> number in the order doesn't really answer my question, but I think you understand my thing. I hope the board understands my >> concern. Thank you. Um, one other question. Will swim swim meets be held?

434
02:03:04.159 --> 02:03:20.400
>> Yes. So, again, I we we right now are hosting swim meets out of the Deer Path branch on Wood Church Road pending again in our relationship with hopefully with the riff with Riffus. If we're able to use the parking lot, we would love to have swim meets there. Um, if that if

435
02:03:20.400 --> 02:03:35.840
that is not possible, then we would continue to have them at the Deer Path. >> And if you were having them here, could those be limited in number of, you know, four swim meets per season or one per week? >> So, actually, you're you're correct. The swim meet season is about six weeks. So,

436
02:03:35.840 --> 02:03:52.480
it it's um mostly all of June and half of July. And um because it's, you know, your home you have home and away meets. And I I think this year we have about four home meets this summer season. >> And how are they conducted as far as like starting times, starting guns,

437
02:03:52.480 --> 02:04:08.480
announcements, winners? Um yeah, >> how do you manage that? >> So again, the pool would close to all patrons probably around that 3:00 mark for um we would close, we would set up for the swim meet up itself. You're looking at a start time. You're looking

438
02:04:08.480 --> 02:04:25.119
at warm-ups around 5 with the meet starting at 6:00 to get out of there again within closing hours of that 8:00 time frame. >> Do you use visual starting techniques or do you use um >> There is uh >> buzzers and guns. >> There there will be whistles blown. Um that's what they do now is there is a

439
02:04:25.119 --> 02:04:40.719
whistle blown for the uh athletes to line up on on the block. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Oh yeah, no problem. Um, how do you set these or do you have an idea of what a membership will cost or

440
02:04:40.719 --> 02:04:54.400
for a family? >> So, we right now we did a competitive analysis of about six outdoor pools. Um, so what you would be looking at would be membership pricing, non um non-membership resident pricing,

441
02:04:54.400 --> 02:05:12.719
and then non-resident pricing. Um, we >> you're going to have we would have a tiered model. So, if you're a member of the Y, that's your most cost-effective reduced rate. If you're not a member of the Y, but you are a resident here, um that would be the next level, and then you would have complete non-resident.

442
02:05:12.719 --> 02:05:27.599
Your non-residents though typically pay your guest fee. They're not looking at um coming in and taking out a full membership. >> So, what what kind of what are we talking about? Is this a family membership? >> So, and I I have it here. So in our competitive analysis, what you're

443
02:05:27.599 --> 02:05:44.080
looking at for a family membership, they do, you know, you have your early bird rate if you join by, you know, X time frame and then if you join thereafter. So your your families are hovering anywhere between that 600 mark for the season for the entire season. >> That is if you're a member of the Y.

444
02:05:44.080 --> 02:05:59.679
>> If you're a member of the Y, that's correct. >> And the non >> you're non-member, you're looking upwards to the 700 mark. >> And that's a family of four. >> Uh we don't look we don't look at it that way. It's just um if you're two adults with your dependence. Um and then also we would continue to offer

445
02:05:59.679 --> 02:06:15.760
financial assistance. >> And what if you're a single person? >> If you're single, you're hovering around that 350 to 400 non-member 450 to 475. >> Yes. Yes. We always offer We always offer active older adult rates which are

446
02:06:15.760 --> 02:06:32.719
at a reduction anywhere from 25 to 30% off of your adult. >> And is there a host community rate? >> Hey, say that again. post community Flemington Burough resident >> that would be yeah >> so it has to be a resident of Flemington not township

447
02:06:32.719 --> 02:06:52.079
>> or any of the work however you would like us to do it >> no it's it's a good question the 08822 zip code which includes the six municipalities actually have that so people think they live in Fington but they Oh god.

448
02:06:52.079 --> 02:07:08.880
>> Is is the resident rate burrow only? Is there a bigger discount for a host? >> My honest opinion, I would honor Flemington Maritton school district zip codes. >> So that's your experation of resident >> that that's that but however again I

449
02:07:08.880 --> 02:07:24.960
would love to get feedback and be collaborative but typically what we see is is going off the school districts tends to work. I I know that and and and I with all this is something that's that we I think as the burrow are pretty

450
02:07:24.960 --> 02:07:40.639
passionate about. We have the and and we really really and truly appreciate the generosity of the YMCA donors in particular because we know that they help fund um families that are um maybe

451
02:07:40.639 --> 02:07:58.719
um and lower in the in the um socioeconomic uh situation. However, um the burrow itself has the and Mr. statistics here can tell you what it is. But there, you know, the the we have the lowest per

452
02:07:58.719 --> 02:08:15.679
capita um um uh household income. Um and um that's something that I think is near and dear to to a lot of the um the burrow, specifically I think the elected officials in town, as well as I think

453
02:08:15.679 --> 02:08:32.159
probably everybody that volunteers here in the community. So a a little bit more discount for the host community is something that we would probably really really um relate. >> Yeah. Because we're no longer a partnership with our attached with pool. We were

454
02:08:32.159 --> 02:08:47.440
>> just like we were a partnership with the with the department >> with the rec department which included the fireworks. >> So we pay for those fireworks. Our member down at the end raises money for it. nothing from the township >> and it's our police department that will

455
02:08:47.440 --> 02:09:04.480
be patrolling this township will not be it'll be our OEM who's responsible if there's a hazmat situation over there with a chemical spill not the township um I could go on and on and on so um it's harder work to divide that 08822

456
02:09:04.480 --> 02:09:21.280
because it has to be done basically by street but you know like we have a great relationship with the township in many things, but recreation is no longer one of them. Okay. >> So, so just just to clarify the the host

457
02:09:21.280 --> 02:09:36.639
community discount that's that's being contemplated, that's just specific to the Burrow of Flemington residents. So, if you're a resident of the township of Riden, which is like surrounded community, but you have a Flemington address, that would not be a part.

458
02:09:36.639 --> 02:09:52.000
>> Hey, 50% of the fireworks again. I'm not going to talk about that. >> Yeah. I I want to I mean I'm not sure how much of this >> able for us to enforce the resolution on a land development application. Um but I think you're hearing concerns. >> Yes.

459
02:09:52.000 --> 02:10:07.360
>> And we would strongly encourage I think we could leave it in that neighborhood. >> But it's up to you >> like how you break that up. >> Certainly like giving discounts to to the the you know the school. However you guys are breaking it up is how you

460
02:10:07.360 --> 02:10:33.679
should break it up. All we're saying is they're a little more experiencing out more. I mean, simple as that. >> Well, I mean, putting out more. You're not I mean, you know, the township's got no responsibility for any of this any longer, and they used to.

461
02:10:33.679 --> 02:10:49.599
>> Well, it's not even that. I I mean we don't even have to go with what what we do and what we don't because because literally we go around with hat in hand asking people for you know asking businesses for money for the fireworks. So literally you know it's like Oliver

462
02:10:49.599 --> 02:11:06.079
and you know get you know may I have a dime sir right but more importantly is the host community the surrounding neighbors will be affected by things like lighting and noise and and and stuff like that. So I think let's just nothing related to give and take between

463
02:11:06.079 --> 02:11:20.800
the recck departments and all that. Let's just focus on the fact that as the host community the neighbors will be affected whether it's those apartments or whether it's the nail street or anything else and and police department those type of things I think are uh

464
02:11:20.800 --> 02:11:36.239
valuable to us. I think that's a logical statement and point to to put out >> and I'm hoping >> those two particular >> that they won't be like like affected too much that if there's a complaint about noise that you'll be sensitive to whatever was

465
02:11:36.239 --> 02:11:54.159
>> um tone it down or whatever um you know so I think it's absolutely important. Well >> I think we've exhausted the questions um that's okay. So, we do have a policy. >> Oh, no, no. I had one more question.

466
02:11:54.159 --> 02:12:09.599
>> Occupancy loads. Um, this gentleman asked about occupancy loads in your Pennsylvania um location. I'm assuming it's kind of similar in that there's an outdoor an outer fence and then an inner fence related, you know, to access the

467
02:12:09.599 --> 02:12:24.880
>> there there's only uh so this it's in a park-like setting. So, there's a football field and a couple baseball fields and then the pool. Everything's all connected except there is a fence around the pool itself. >> So again, my question is, is there an occupancy load? And I I don't know

468
02:12:24.880 --> 02:12:40.400
really if there because I'm I'm familiar with building occupancy load, >> but is there an occupancy load to get if there's an emergency within that fence line, you still have to vomitorium essentially the people that are in that

469
02:12:40.400 --> 02:13:01.679
fence line out without being like a like in a concert where you're pressed up against the cages, right? How do you get people out? Is there like >> I think Hawaiian >> look I I I've got an architectural

470
02:13:01.679 --> 02:13:20.400
background. So for me a egress in a is what I think. So I'm thinking if you're in a in an enclosed area, how do you get people out in emergency? >> Is there a giant buck jumps over the fence? Everybody goes right. >> Is there an occupancy lows requirement

471
02:13:20.400 --> 02:13:37.280
for an interior of a fence or you've got people in and in in inside of a fence area? I don't know that answer. >> I don't know the answer right now, but we can of course. >> Do you know that? >> I don't know. No, I know that we have two egress points plus what getting through the building and that should

472
02:13:37.280 --> 02:13:53.840
suffice, but it's something that we'll take. >> Obviously, there's there's code. >> Yeah. And I don't know what that is, but it has to be reflected on your site plan. It's aable, >> right? It's not so much a site code, but a building code. >> So So we want to This is just gate every

473
02:13:53.840 --> 02:14:09.920
so many feet. >> You have a big fenced in area. >> I think they just need to meet occupancy code egress, right? Requirement, whatever. If if it exists, >> if it exists, they need to meet it and it needs to be shown on the site. >> And it sounds like they're happy to comply with that, right? So,

474
02:14:09.920 --> 02:14:27.280
>> there will be a building permit submission as well. I mean, after this all >> right, >> we're all getting tired. >> All right. Thank you. >> Thank you. Um, so the board has policy to end our meetings by 10 and have not

475
02:14:27.280 --> 02:14:43.679
start any business after 9:30 unless I I doubt that you have a witness who can be heard in eight minutes. Um, I don't know if we have any. Let's see. there. We weren't planning on any additional testimony. I know one of the board members had a specific question that Mr.

476
02:14:43.679 --> 02:15:00.000
Frank Barlo might be able to comment on. That would probably be the only thing if there's any additional questions from the profession. >> No, no, I'm I'm happy to to bring in the next witness. If you think it's just for a short little thing, let's do that. I just want to I I would I just want to keep

477
02:15:00.000 --> 02:15:20.320
cognizant of of our countdown timer but that's the portion. So >> so uh if you could please state your first name and last name and uh your role with respect to the river crossing line. >> Sure. >> Uh good evening everyone. Um my name is

478
02:15:20.320 --> 02:15:43.679
Frank Barlo and I am the VP of facility. >> I do. >> Great. Thank you. >> With respect to your role, if you just clarify that I'm not sure that I'll >> Sure. Um um I I run the facilities uh

479
02:15:43.679 --> 02:16:00.639
department at uh the River CrossMCA. Um in particular I think um the question was around chemical delivery. >> Yeah. Like is if you're using bleach or she said acid >> sodium chlorate which is commonly known

480
02:16:00.639 --> 02:16:15.679
as chlorine. >> Yeah. So like if you're getting a delivery in the front of the building and you said the tank is all the way in the back. How are they running all the way? >> They have a truck. They have a truck with those. They are licensed to

481
02:16:15.679 --> 02:16:31.360
register the fellow. We we do them all over the place in interior and and outside if it's the same way. They run out straight to the tank. >> The tanks uh if there was a spill was

482
02:16:31.360 --> 02:16:46.240
they have containment or something. So if you had a 400gallon tank and the thing got a hole in it, you had 400 gallons going back towards the way. the tanks that we would install are they're they're like a double hull so it's like

483
02:16:46.240 --> 02:17:03.880
a safety tank. Um and that's I mean they sell them specifically designed to contain um without being punctured and then the acid is delivered in carries usually either by

484
02:17:03.920 --> 02:17:22.319
>> and that's all kept in back on on pro or whatever. >> Yes. Well, historically it was kept in the one side of the pump room. Um, you know, it's still there. Um, but I I believe the new design is is um

485
02:17:22.319 --> 02:17:37.920
is going to encompass that as well with the pump equipment. >> Okay. I just curious of how how you were filling so that there's no risk of spillage basically. >> Yeah. >> Does your current

486
02:17:37.920 --> 02:17:53.760
um um closets at at Deer Path or at this other facility in Pennsylvania are the typical pool rooms that pool closets that I expect have like a a finish on the floor

487
02:17:53.760 --> 02:18:10.719
and up up the sides of a like an epoxy type finish. Do you have that at your other facilities? And would that be >> um for for for chemical storage? >> Yeah, so typically they're just on regular concrete pores.

488
02:18:10.719 --> 02:18:27.760
>> Um it depends on the site. >> Um there is a spill as well at the Coopersburg site. >> Um and we use um spill kits um at our other sites that don't have that. So they I mean you know what they kind of look like. They're just long strings in

489
02:18:27.760 --> 02:18:43.200
case there's a right. We've never had to use one, >> right? >> Um but they're there just in case. But all the storage closets and are are contained and as well as where where the in outside where they're um kind of moved from place to place like um Mark

490
02:18:43.200 --> 02:18:57.760
said >> I'm not sure I understand the question. >> Um and I guess he's concerned about the chemical spill. Make sure wherever it's stored is >> Yes. Oh yes, it definitely locked. All

491
02:18:57.760 --> 02:19:14.639
our pooling areas are all all locked and secured. So, I just I guess the I guess my the operational question is if you've got a truck with a hose filling your your double wall tank, the double wall tank is in the pump house, reconstructed pump

492
02:19:14.639 --> 02:19:29.760
house, which is on that diagram at the very bottom of the the truck would go where and where are the hoses running? Like point that out. Well, I believe I believe what they did was they had the trunk back up to here and just run the

493
02:19:29.760 --> 02:19:48.880
hose down and fill the tank. Okay, that's what they That's I believe that's what they did because there's a gate there. >> Okay, that's what I was told. >> It's a long hose. >> It's a long >> That's why that was my That was my question.

494
02:19:48.880 --> 02:20:05.280
>> Is the idea to do the same as what was done previously? >> Um Yes. Um we there is an access gate here um and an access gate here currently and the truck can come down either way and

495
02:20:05.280 --> 02:20:20.800
>> I imagine they're included within process right that make sure that they know like they're they see the distance they know that they're able to do it all within that was in the pregnancy. >> Sure. And and we can double check with

496
02:20:20.800 --> 02:20:37.520
them and make sure that we have have enough extension. >> Are you saying it's going to drive across the grass in some instances? The trucks would drive across the grass. You said the truck could enter here or enter here. You just meant the hoses. >> Well, the hoses, but they would open the

497
02:20:37.520 --> 02:20:56.479
gate. You know, there's a gate in there. So, they could walk. >> Is that Yeah. I just was curious how you were going to do it so that there's no risk of chemical getting in the grass or into the wetlands which are affect

498
02:20:56.479 --> 02:21:13.120
basically back there. >> Sure. Any other questions from the professionals for facilities? >> Okay. >> A question back. >> Oh, well just make sure anybody else for him

499
02:21:13.120 --> 02:21:28.640
the board members. Yeah, I was gonna say mind I'm not seeing any. No, no, no, no, no. Okay, so public questions for this witness. No. Okay,

500
02:21:28.640 --> 02:21:49.200
I can see everybody. Um, okay. Thank you. Um, there was a question >> very, are you planning now or in the future to put up any kind of playground equipment? At at this time we are not planning on

501
02:21:49.200 --> 02:22:11.439
playground equipment because we would have the splash pad and the splash pad will have like you know the buckets and the all that fun stuff. Um so at this time we're we're not planning on that. >> Okay. So no more that's fine. Okay. So I'm going to ask the board's indulgence

502
02:22:11.439 --> 02:22:27.600
because we're we're at 9:30. Um um is there I mean we're we're close to to the end. Are we okay going a few minutes past >> online? Mr. Campion's still online. So

503
02:22:27.600 --> 02:22:44.960
I'm going to try to make this efficient. So okay. So is there um anything else from our board professionals that you think that we need to hear? So, we did go through the reports, but as long as the applicants complying with

504
02:22:44.960 --> 02:23:04.040
and we heard brief testimony about adjusting um the coverage and stuff, get down to 30% that's what they obviously heard their objective. happy as long as you have no questions about

505
02:23:09.439 --> 02:23:32.160
>> that goes to the question. >> So, Mr. Perez, are there any other questions on the report? So that that >> no no no other questions. >> Okay. All right. So um so all professionals satisfied. So now is a

506
02:23:32.160 --> 02:23:49.439
time for public comment. Any members of the public wishing to make a comment please? Uh >> um and again if you could name for the record. Um >> Tom Russia 52 Penel Street. Um I have some prepared comments concerns. Um we

507
02:23:49.439 --> 02:24:07.359
touched on some of the things before you start tech because this is comment we should swear you in >> just in case there's any actual testimony comment. >> I do. Thank you. >> Thank you. I want to say my objective tonight was

508
02:24:07.359 --> 02:24:22.080
not to deny or hamper the revitalization of the pool, but develop a good neighbor policy for the benefit of the pool users and the pool neighbors. Let's go into this our eyes wide open. As I said, some things may be a little repetitive. We've touched on them briefly, but I think

509
02:24:22.080 --> 02:24:38.319
it's good to summarize anyway. Um, the pool was operated from 1963 through 2017. and it was managed by a community board of directors which comprised some residents of Garan Township and Flemington Burough. You can look up the names if you like, but it was a very

510
02:24:38.319 --> 02:24:54.080
local managed group by volunteers. Um, I've been a resident of Benell Street for 15 years. Uh, five of those when the pool was in operation. Um, some observations that that I have and other neighbors I've spoken to on Benell Street, particularly those who were

511
02:24:54.080 --> 02:25:11.359
there when the pool was in operation. Um there are three major things that we observed and then we'd like to talk about the things we can do to hopefully remediate or control or manage those better in the future. Number one, music was continually played during the hours

512
02:25:11.359 --> 02:25:28.080
of operation interrupting neighbors of quiet enjoyment of their property. This was from morning to night. I live more than 200 feet away and you could hear it every day. Every day. Uh, two, multiple swim team competitions, many going on

513
02:25:28.080 --> 02:25:44.319
for hours using very loud starting gun buzzers followed by recital of times of winners, second place, third place, get ready for the next heat and so on. Yes, people want to be recognized for their achievements. The kids want to see them

514
02:25:44.319 --> 02:26:01.359
smile, but there are better ways to do that. And the third thing was numerous public addressing announcements. Hot dogs are now 50 cents. Come get them here. Don't forget to sign up for this thing. Don't forget to do that. Is that necessary to

515
02:26:01.359 --> 02:26:19.040
be broadcast where residents 200, I'm about 250 and further can hear it? I don't think so. Especially in today's day and age with the technology we have. So, some considerations or requests of the planning board, other professionals and

516
02:26:19.040 --> 02:26:35.280
officers of the town to consider. And again, maybe a little repetitive here, but we're going to go through them quickly. Um, to be aware of the season of operation, days of operation, hours of operation, make sure they're memorialized and followed. Um, there was

517
02:26:35.280 --> 02:26:50.479
a little discussion about heaters. That brings up some different concerns, but I think we need to take that into consideration. If the season is going to be expanded, how long, when, why, and so on. Um, suggestion, no broadcasting of

518
02:26:50.479 --> 02:27:06.080
music at any time. Restrictions of swim meets to once per month of operating season. Um, utilization of state-of-the-art signaling systems using VSSs technology. That's visual start signaling. They use

519
02:27:06.080 --> 02:27:21.680
lightings on the pool lanes. It's commonly used in many other pools. Um, minimal use of loudspeakers to announce winners with the sound directed away from residential areas. Perhaps using digital display boards to show the

520
02:27:21.680 --> 02:27:38.640
winners rather than requiring the large announcements. The kids can still see their names up and writing. Public address system should be used for emergencies. lost children, safety, um, law enforcement requests, lightning

521
02:27:38.640 --> 02:27:54.640
in the area, but not for hot dogs or 50 cents. Evening lighting to be turned off 15 minutes after closing time. I did hear me talk about there's some evening maintenance and so on, but again, there should be some limits. We'll close at 8, maintenance should be

522
02:27:54.640 --> 02:28:10.560
done by 9:00, lights off. Um I asked the question about swim teams and training sessions and I believe the answer I read was in the morning um the adult swim would be silent type thing. That was one of the suggestions I had

523
02:28:10.560 --> 02:28:26.800
here. Um also you know we had a lot of discussion about the apartments and the noise over there and this is um the school is over here. There's a part in that end, but Ben Street is not as far away as you think.

524
02:28:26.800 --> 02:28:42.240
And yes, there's some little wetlands goes up a hill, a little path walks along people's backyards. Literally from that path, you can touch the back fence of those homes. I live across the street, but I've talked to just about everybody that lives on that side and

525
02:28:42.240 --> 02:28:58.160
they would like to keep the disturbance to a minimum. If there's any more sound reduction tech techniques that could be used, please employ them or think about playing them. Um, I also mentioned about having some type

526
02:28:58.160 --> 02:29:15.359
of noise study uh done when the pool is at peak operation to make sure we they comply with the noise requirements and ordinances at town. So, I think we should incorporate something along those lines. And I guess on the other side, here's the good neighbor model. The town

527
02:29:15.359 --> 02:29:32.319
of Westfield, which is in Union County. It's a very affluent town. They have three pools in one big complex. I'm very familiar with that complex. It's a densely populated area of residents on all sides. It is run by the town's recreation, not an outside group such as

528
02:29:32.319 --> 02:29:48.880
YMCA. Their session is the first Saturday of June to Labor Day. Period. 10:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. 7 days a week with the exception they have adult swim teams that come in. They use it from

529
02:29:48.880 --> 02:30:05.680
6:00 to 8:00 a.m. Excuse me, 6:00 to 10:00 a.m. and they pay a fee to do that. And it's quiet time. They broadcast no music at any time. That was after numerous discussions with the neighbors. Um, on the average, they have swim three

530
02:30:05.680 --> 02:30:22.000
swim meets per season. Um, this swim team starting system, one that I mentioned, it's made by Colorado time systems. It's a major producer of systems. Uh, you might want to look into that. Uh, the PA system in Westfield is

531
02:30:22.000 --> 02:30:37.120
restricted to emergency usage only. Not that like, you know, I came here and I can't find my friend or I lost my sunglasses. Lighting is only used in the last few weeks of August, directed only on the pool area, and is probably turned off at

532
02:30:37.120 --> 02:30:54.000
8:00 p.m. closing time. I didn't ask about the parking lots. I'll go take a look, but I don't know if they like those parking lots. And the pool, as I said, we have these swim teams in the morning. They're rented to an organization. actually is a team from Staten Island,

533
02:30:54.000 --> 02:31:10.240
New York that comes there, believe it or not, from 6:00 to 8:00 a.m. and no other outside events for rentals. So, those are some things where you can maybe give some ideas. Um, in closing, I want to remind the board residents that before

534
02:31:10.240 --> 02:31:27.760
the the pool was managed by a community board of directors. It's vastly different than YMCA management. You know, the YMCA is a great organization. all kinds of programs out, helps people. It's a 501c3 group. Um, but it also is very much

535
02:31:27.760 --> 02:31:43.200
revenue driven. You've even heard about tonight, you know, making it cost effective and so on. Um, I looked at the 2024 financial 990 form, which all 501c3s need out there. Uh, their revenue

536
02:31:43.200 --> 02:32:00.960
was $46 million in that year. That's almost 10 times the bureau's budget, right? So, we're dealing with big business. Um 96% of their revenue was spent on programs and that's great. 60% of that

537
02:32:00.960 --> 02:32:17.040
was for salaries. Um they work with 2,000 employees. um the top five officers account for over 5% of the salaries with the CEO, not the COO, but the CEO making over half a million dollars a year. So

538
02:32:17.040 --> 02:32:34.240
revenue generation is an important thing for this organization and they do good things with the money, but I'd like not to see our town pool be used as a cash cow to generate more and more revenues for programs. Let's keep it the benefit

539
02:32:34.240 --> 02:32:52.880
of the people of Flemington, the Robert Township area, and other surrounding areas. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Um, seeing as there's no other members of the public online or here, um, I get a motion to close the public hearing.

540
02:32:52.880 --> 02:33:09.280
>> You have any last comments you want to make? >> Um, no. No last comments from for me. I think the only that I that I would say is just, you know, obviously the the YMCA is is looking to revitalize um what was essentially a key part of the

541
02:33:09.280 --> 02:33:24.479
community. Um and as Matt said, I'm I am a former resident of the Burrow of Flemington as well as the township of Riden. Um I've been at both and I was a middle schooler at before it was Riffus.

542
02:33:24.479 --> 02:33:42.399
Um it was the Reading Fleming inter intermediate school. Um, and so obviously I remember back in the day when a lot of people would go to the pool. So, um, you know, they I think in general that the entire idea is they're they're trying to revitalize and and rehabilitate um something that was in

543
02:33:42.399 --> 02:33:57.439
the community and also trying to do it in a way that um has the the least amount of impact, right? They're they're not trying to create something completely new and brand new in the sense of, you know, just changing what's what's there, but instead of trying to improve and and try to bring back uh

544
02:33:57.439 --> 02:34:17.520
something that was um uh a a beloved part of the community. >> Thank you. Um now I'll take a motion to close the public >> hearing a Carol. >> Yes. >> Mr. Campion.

545
02:34:17.520 --> 02:34:33.120
>> Yes. >> Council vice president. >> Yes. >> Mr. Gashna. >> Yes. >> Miss Gin. >> Yes. >> Mr. Schwiner. Yes, >> Mr. Scho.

546
02:34:33.120 --> 02:34:49.200
>> Yes, >> Miss Wingle. >> Yes, Miss Whitesman. >> Yes. Thank you. >> Okay. So, board discussion. Cara, if you wouldn't if you could uh kind of review what is being requested, waiverss that are being asked for that

547
02:34:49.200 --> 02:35:04.640
would be >> yes. >> So, I think probably the easiest thing to do, look at what was submitted as day four um in presentation that is the requested >> I can barely hear you. >> Oh,

548
02:35:04.640 --> 02:35:24.000
>> sorry. >> Uh so to take a look at A4 uh which outlines the relief uh that's being requested. We've got our site plan relief. We've got our design waiver relief uh with regard to the filter buffers um the parking lot modules and

549
02:35:24.000 --> 02:35:41.359
each of these were addressed by the applicants uh professionals as well as the board planner put in his commentary as well. Um, we get to waivers. There were two RSIs waver waivers uh parking illumination waivers which I think we

550
02:35:41.359 --> 02:35:58.479
did discuss and if the board is so inclined to grant an additional waiver from the height of the light poles to 22 feet then we would do away with that particular waiver um that was requested. Um we move into the fencing uh which I

551
02:35:58.479 --> 02:36:15.760
think is requested as a waiver because of the location. Um there's a question really due to the um property configuration of what's a front yard and what's not. So I think that's been requested um to uh cover all bases.

552
02:36:15.760 --> 02:36:32.319
And then the second one on page three was withdrawn. And I think it's important to note there that the applicant has represented that they will meet the 30% required by that section of the ordinance. However, if not um the board has to decide what happens in that

553
02:36:32.319 --> 02:36:49.439
instance. Uh will storm water management mechanisms that are required to comply with that section of the ordinance um be left to uh for the board professionals if possible? I mean I again we'd have to see where we were at that point, but would they just automatically want the

554
02:36:49.439 --> 02:37:05.120
to come back to this board and explain the situation and what type of relief it is that they're asking for because technically they're getting site plan approval and that would be a site plan change that this board could certainly want to see. Um, and as the chair had

555
02:37:05.120 --> 02:37:20.960
indicated, storm water management is important to the board that take a look at. >> I think if they have to do storm water, they're going to have to come back. >> So, I don't think we can get around that. Bob's going to have to review all the calculations and the methods and we can't avoid that. So I think that that answers the question.

556
02:37:20.960 --> 02:37:36.080
>> I think I think it does too. Just wanted to throw that. So that's the relief that's being requested. Um I did have a number of conditions which I don't know if you want to show them now. um some are questions that the board's going to

557
02:37:36.080 --> 02:37:53.680
have to weigh in on um our standard compliance with all the reports of the board professionals um except as otherwise outlined or changed um by what we're going to talk about next. Um the second shed, which is the shed to the west of the uh pump house, will be

558
02:37:53.680 --> 02:38:09.680
removed. Um the well will be included within the fenced in area along with the meter and the tank. Um the well will be protected as per legal requirements and final sign off from burl water and sewer will be

559
02:38:09.680 --> 02:38:26.399
required in connection with that. Uh we talked about the design waiver approval for the increased height of the light fixtures to 22 feet to incorporate and to incorporate shielding. The satisfaction for professionals light sources sh shall not be visible and

560
02:38:26.399 --> 02:38:44.000
shall be otherwise compliant with the code and the ordinances lighting cut off time. We didn't specifically talk about that, but that's a question that I think we have to say. We talked about maybe a half hour after. I think maybe you tie that into uh the

561
02:38:44.000 --> 02:39:00.000
hours of operation, which we'll talk about in a minute. Um compliance with state and local noise codes. um proper placement of any speakers to avoid noise trespass on neighbors. I did also hear something about possibly doing a sound test, a noise study at a certain point

562
02:39:00.000 --> 02:39:17.760
in time. That's something the board wants to impose as well. Um the schedule Memorial Day to Labor Day um and open Monday through Friday once the uh Riv school district is out is closed.

563
02:39:17.760 --> 02:39:33.920
Um hours of pool operation. So, I have 6:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. Monday through Friday. And then we talked about 7 to 8 on Saturday and 12 to 8 on Sunday, but I was a little confused. Are the

564
02:39:33.920 --> 02:39:50.080
the adult swim still happening starting at 6:00 a.m.? So, we need to clean that up a little bit. And something I was thinking about was maybe the applicant submits a schedule like a a typical daily schedule for weekday and weekend.

565
02:39:50.080 --> 02:40:06.240
So, you know, we can kind of see that the plan is that there is adult swim from 6:00 to 8. Um, >> well, I think that's the testimony we heard was that >> that's Yeah. >> Okay. I I just like I said when we talked about hours, I heard hours of

566
02:40:06.240 --> 02:40:22.240
operations 7 to 8 on Saturdays, 12 to 8 on Sunday. So, Exactly what I >> Okay. And so that's it does not include >> 6. So there's no 6 a.m. day swim on the weekends. >> No. >> Okay. >> That's that's what we heard from. >> Just want to make sure.

567
02:40:22.240 --> 02:40:36.880
>> And then there's And that it only is recreational swim on the Sunday. >> That's correct. >> Saturday and Sunday. >> Saturday at 7 a.m. >> Saturday at 7 a.m. >> There are some programming lessons and whatever. It's recreational swim

568
02:40:36.880 --> 02:40:53.120
>> on weekends. Okay. All right. Um, take that out. Um, we talked about after hours activities. Um, if there is any after hours activities, they must apply for any event license or application

569
02:40:53.120 --> 02:41:10.319
approval that is required by the burrow. Uh, deliveries and garbage times are going to be ordinance compliant and as testified too. Uh right now there's weekly anticipate the be weekly garbage pickup but I think

570
02:41:10.319 --> 02:41:26.800
we should put in that that there needs to be additional scheduled pickups. Uh they'll do that as necessary. Um the applicant will ensure that all code and occupancy capacity requirements are met specifically with the web of

571
02:41:26.800 --> 02:41:41.760
defense in areas. when we talked about the conditions and the comments within u Jim's report uh we talked about section 1632 A6c

572
02:41:41.760 --> 02:41:57.200
this is with regard to uh the additional landscaping um the applicant said that they'll fill in additional landscaping to the satisfaction the floor planner include some ever grains and decision mix um so that there is no direct visibility to

573
02:41:57.200 --> 02:42:14.640
the nearby residences Um all invasive education will also be cleared out. We talked about there's a lot of that in there that they that we could stand and take care of. >> They only said that for the existing that's on the apartments, not along the

574
02:42:14.640 --> 02:42:28.720
street side. >> Yes. Yes. So that's that's the page four of the planners report that again talks about section 1632 A6C uh next to the Prospect Hill Apartments. Uh then we talked

575
02:42:28.720 --> 02:42:47.920
>> you go back to the one the occupancy within the fence. Can you say occupancy and egress requirements? >> Yep. >> Put the words and egress. >> Egress and talked about the trees. Uh there's four

576
02:42:47.920 --> 02:43:05.040
trees within the parking area that are going to be removed uh and replaced along the perimeter with 12 trees in accordance with um whatever species requirements are in the ordinance. Yeah, I would say satisfaction for

577
02:43:05.040 --> 02:43:30.960
professionals. The existing well be left in its current state pool. The existing electric meter will remain and will be screened with fencing for safety. Uh there's a propane tank

578
02:43:30.960 --> 02:43:47.359
within that area as well that will be replaced with a larger one and also included in the fenced in area likely most of it will be placed underground. Um the applicant would do their best to save the roots of the large pine in the island. All of these are on under general comments on page six of the

579
02:43:47.359 --> 02:44:03.760
board planner report. Um you they I heard testimony that the the well had a big like hole in it. It was dangerous. You said something about the hole on the side of the >> not so much dangerous. The hole's about

580
02:44:03.760 --> 02:44:18.080
this big. >> Oh, okay. >> Just noted that it had to be it probably has to be >> repaired. Your your comment was that it shall rem your your comment was that it'll remain as is. And I think they're going to have to make some repairs to it. So, I don't necessarily know that

581
02:44:18.080 --> 02:44:33.359
that verb jives with what's going to happen. >> So, it will remain and and be repaired. except except their testimony. Be careful here because their testimony said that they're going to investigate whether or not the pit well can be

582
02:44:33.359 --> 02:44:50.080
repaired. If not, >> necessary if possible, otherwise we'll connect into public. >> The other thing is water department may not want that well. They might just go to all public water. The well is going to have to be capped and abandoned, >> right? So, so there's a couple different >> So, we have I think we we have to

583
02:44:50.080 --> 02:45:06.160
capture that this is going to bas be based on their investigation of the well and the coordination of the burrow water. You don't want a big hole to be a little hole become a big hole when some kid gets >> the repair is necessary if possible

584
02:45:06.160 --> 02:45:29.120
to approval of Okay. Um, and then to Mr. Brereslin's comments, he had brought up some thoughts with regard to limitations on music, uh, broadcasting,

585
02:45:29.120 --> 02:45:43.760
uh, number of swim meets that would be permitted during the season, uh, using different types of systems. M mentioned the DSS system, digital displays, uh, limiting public announcements to emergencies.

586
02:45:43.760 --> 02:46:09.359
that I know area. >> There was also testimony about the chemical company that they actually >> delivery delivery, you know, adequate um access to the plan location of storage

587
02:46:09.359 --> 02:46:26.319
tank. if it needs modification to the fence to allow like like those kinds of questions about >> I think that's kind of what >> we're having delivery >> safe delivery or something something well should it should be

588
02:46:26.319 --> 02:46:42.560
chemicals should be delivered and you know transferred by a licensed you know company that's something to that effect if it should be I think they represent it's a licensed operator that does that all safety protocols, spill

589
02:46:42.560 --> 02:47:06.160
kits. So I mean it's just kind of good practice. So board discussions going to start with folks online. Uh Justin, you unmuted so I follow you first.

590
02:47:06.160 --> 02:47:25.680
>> I I'm I'm good now. >> Okay, Karen. Um yeah, I'm I'm good. Um generally I'm just want to reiterate I'm um as the Y said that they're proud to partner and bring this back as somebody whose children went to the original pool back

591
02:47:25.680 --> 02:47:42.000
in the day. It was a sad day when we lost that community resource and I'm I am pleased that they're putting in the work to bring back this community resource for us. Um, to the points made earlier, I do want to I didn't weigh in at the time, but I do completely agree

592
02:47:42.000 --> 02:47:59.920
with everybody that said if the Y can consider giving some different um a lower price for um residents of the BOA in recognition of the input that the BOA has um in this um and possibly all also

593
02:47:59.920 --> 02:48:16.880
given that it was oversubscribed previously and and people will be keen to I'm sure people will be keen to join. People have been waiting for a few years for this. Um if there's any possibility of um wherever residents um being

594
02:48:16.880 --> 02:48:32.720
amongst the first wave of of having access to um to me to to take memberships up. um just some sort of consideration for that given the fact that we are supporting with all the uh the burough um items as the mayor

595
02:48:32.720 --> 02:48:50.319
mentioned um to support their operations. Um I I really would like to see if they can do something along those lines if possible. Um but otherwise I think everybody's questions and everybody's testimony has has covered the concerns

596
02:48:50.319 --> 02:49:08.319
that could happen. Um, but generally I'm I'm really um pleased to see this moving forward and I hope we can come to some agreement. >> Yes. >> I am good. Thanks, >> Mike.

597
02:49:08.319 --> 02:49:26.720
Ready to vote? >> All right. Start with this more. >> Uh, a few words. Sounds good. >> Mark, um something's just the parking lot. I don't know if we talked about in

598
02:49:26.720 --> 02:49:48.479
the waivers remembered, but um 1600A parking lot. >> Um do we address that? Did we talk about that or is it that >> they need a they need our our design standard says you got to pay the parking lot and they don't want to pay the

599
02:49:48.479 --> 02:50:03.359
parking lot. They're asking relief from that as is which I think our board professionals have no objection to to that. >> Okay. Yeah. Okay. And then the only other thing was around the points that were brought up by the gentleman now. So

600
02:50:03.359 --> 02:50:22.000
we touched on that just a moment ago and then I asked a question about just want to make sure that I was clear on what related to that was the direction of speakers. >> I think that's what we need to consider.

601
02:50:22.000 --> 02:50:39.040
So I think maybe after everybody talks and we maybe there's four or five things we need to definitively decide how you want to handle this condition. >> Okay. >> So let why don't we just jump to that now because I think that and I'll

602
02:50:39.040 --> 02:50:57.040
>> So, let's start with let's start with in my notes here. So, um >> music we can start with the music. It wasn't first on my list, but it's on my list. So, so I think we've we've heard testimony from from the applicant about

603
02:50:57.040 --> 02:51:11.520
there would be music. It'd be under their control. I think there seems to be some sense that they're okay with making sure it's not a nuisance and but I don't know what the number is in decor's

604
02:51:11.520 --> 02:51:26.960
noise ordinance off the top of my head during the day. So 7 a.m. to 10 p.m. 65 dB property line. Now that's to a residential set. So meaning the park is in between the

605
02:51:26.960 --> 02:51:42.319
Benell residence and the pool property. So it's measured at the residential property >> that's much further away than right next door. >> So you're saying that if it So if it So let's say the closest residence on Benel their backyard their lot line in the

606
02:51:42.319 --> 02:51:58.800
back which is basically that walking path closest over there. Um it's got to be less than 65 dB there >> from 7 a.m. to 10 p.m. >> and and and has to be nothing other than ambient outside those hours. 50 >> 50 between 10 p.m. and 7 a.m.

607
02:51:58.800 --> 02:52:15.200
>> And then the same thing would apply to the back department that side. Correct. >> You know, I got to say, you know, listening to somebody else's music all day, it's just not fair. I don't care what level it is. I mean, I hear, for

608
02:52:15.200 --> 02:52:31.760
example, The Car Show, it is not my kind of music and they start it and it's on a Saturday night and I'm stuck listening to it for several hours. It's not my kind of music and it's, you know, I can't even imagine having to listen to

609
02:52:31.760 --> 02:52:46.399
that all day, seven days a week, right? Not my music. It's not my taste of music. It's not my music. Um, so I feel very like and I don't complain about it because it's once a month on a Saturday

610
02:52:46.399 --> 02:53:04.319
night and it's been going on for years. But I can certainly empathize in not going to hear for nine or 10 or 11 hours a day somebody else's music, you know, whatever it is. I mean, they may be a

611
02:53:04.319 --> 02:53:20.080
classical person and you're listening to 50s music all day, you know? I mean, >> that's what we're looking at right now. >> Doesn't Doesn't the noise that you're quoting in the resolution kind of cover that already? Because

612
02:53:20.080 --> 02:53:37.439
if the dec if my neighbor has a party and the decel is above 65, they would they're subject to the same noise ordinance that these guys are subject, aren't they? >> 65 is a law. >> That was that was the other question I was going to ask Jim. What's give me

613
02:53:37.439 --> 02:53:57.680
give me a lawn mower leaf blower. What's 65? >> So I don't know. Do you remember we all heard this before >> for the marching band at Karen's house was closest to the >> do not do not play the trucks if you're

614
02:53:57.680 --> 02:54:12.960
if you're hearing that music at the level of your doctor's office is waiting all day long and it's not your music it's irritating >> and that's not loud but I'm sympathetic to >> so so you know it sounds it sounds like

615
02:54:12.960 --> 02:54:29.359
they've got some They're already they're already testifying the early morning hours or no news to any and there's so so we're really talking about this kind of like noon to 8 it's still eight hours I'm not it's still

616
02:54:29.359 --> 02:54:45.040
eight hours right um that may be a reasonable that may be a reasonable at least no more than that by the boundary but you know >> see I don't know that in the zoning code we have a separate

617
02:54:45.040 --> 02:55:01.279
um prohibition on outdoor music. I I don't know off the top of my head. Now, we have a noise code that has to be complied with. Somebody violates the noise code, someone can call and file a complaint. There's a whole process for that. >> It's the same as

618
02:55:01.279 --> 02:55:17.040
>> right. So, so you're saying we may not have jurisdiction to >> I don't just in here for site plan practical issue. We have residential uses that surround this site, >> right? If it's a potential nuisance issue that can be avoided with a simple

619
02:55:17.040 --> 02:55:34.080
restriction that we're not going to play music, I think the board can >> Yeah, there are testimonies that they want to be able to have some music uh out there. We're hearing from not just our own opinions. We're hearing at least from one resident that that all non-stop

620
02:55:34.080 --> 02:55:49.359
all the time is a bit much and that levels where it had been before. You'd have no idea at what levels it was before. >> When the pool was open and it closed in 2017, earbuds and iPods and all the other stuff everybody's listening to now

621
02:55:49.359 --> 02:56:05.840
through Bluetooth were not prevalent, right, >> a decade ago, right now. Everybody's got their own music in their own ears. >> So everything's different than it was a decade ago regarding how people listen to music. So, let them bring their own

622
02:56:05.840 --> 02:56:21.359
freaking AirPods. And >> but my concern is that if we if we make that if we we make that the addition, we're then going to have >> 50 families >> individual Bluetooth powered speaker

623
02:56:21.359 --> 02:56:44.800
play all the different >> Sorry. I will say it's different at they play music and it's different there but at that pool they play music and a lot of times

624
02:56:44.800 --> 02:57:05.600
we're like where's >> any houses totally different but I will just say at a pool setting >> I'm trying >> there is some kind of rubber Yes. >> So, what number you got?

625
02:57:05.600 --> 02:57:23.680
>> 50 dB is a quiet library. 60 dB is a quiet office. 65 is normal conversation. >> 75 is all right. So, so I so that's if that's the case, if 65 is normal conversation,

626
02:57:23.680 --> 02:57:39.520
it means that if you are on Vanell Street or in the apartment or in prospect apartments, you really should not be hearing the music being played if they're complying with the sound. >> Well, I think that's where the noise probably makes sense. >> So, I I think it is I think then if we

627
02:57:39.520 --> 02:57:55.439
if that's what it is, then we should I think we could live behind the the existing noise or should be more than adequate. why a noise study wouldn't be required. >> And then and then if there's a complaint there's a complaint and that falls under police jurisdiction as opposed to our

628
02:57:55.439 --> 02:58:11.840
stuff. >> So I feel like to some extent this could be a compromise where you know the speakers are not placed right at the fence line or maybe it's a conversation throwing in a few more trees along the fence like it's up to help. Well, I

629
02:58:11.840 --> 02:58:28.560
think that's the point is instead of us mandating what they can play and when they can play it, we've already got a noise ordinance. And I what we do have control over is um the direction of the speakers and we can we can require our

630
02:58:28.560 --> 02:58:46.479
our our uh planners to kind of you know you're reviewing you're going to be reviewing the or I guess the I guess the building department would be reviewing the the what the place the speaker somebody would be and and it's to their

631
02:58:46.479 --> 02:59:02.479
it's to their well they have to get an electrical permit to put up to to do that. So, somebody's going to be reviewing the direction of those speakers and that they're not, you know, they're pointed or we just put a or we just put a simple note that says they must be directed inward as opposed to

632
02:59:02.479 --> 02:59:18.479
>> out like toward the property line there. They should be projected >> Karen's Karen. >> Well, just a suggestion um per the um the member of the public, I'm sorry I didn't catch his name. Um, we couldn't

633
02:59:18.479 --> 02:59:34.880
we couldn't we say that as part of um the the uh opening that they had to do a a specific noise survey to prove when they have the they could have the speakers go in at the operational thing and we could um ask ask for a noise

634
02:59:34.880 --> 02:59:50.720
study at the fence lines of Banell Street properties to be done and to prove that it's below 65 at that point and that that would help satisfy their concerns and and we could And then that's the operating situation. Could we can we impose that?

635
02:59:50.720 --> 03:00:07.920
>> The problem is that our conditions are done before they pull permits, not before they're like fully running unless we make it a condition of a final co. >> I mean that we could certainly do that, but that doesn't help ongoing. So when the

636
03:00:07.920 --> 03:00:24.720
study is done, it could be fine, but then later it could not be. I think that if we think about a condition that says that speakers shall be directed within the property and not at you know outside the boundaries of the property and I

637
03:00:24.720 --> 03:00:40.800
don't know if you guys look at it at exact location something showing the exact proposed locations that >> could work I think we can work it out my sense is also based on testimony that we heard

638
03:00:40.800 --> 03:00:57.600
that they want to be a good neighbor, right? >> People have an issue with the level of music. My guess is >> they're going to address it. >> Uh Dennis, you have a hand. >> I agree with what Jim just said. I think they need to be compliant with the burrow ordinance and to me we should

639
03:00:57.600 --> 03:01:14.399
leave it at that. >> Okay. So I think we've got direction of professionals to review and burrow noise ordinance. Okay, that was one. Um, two is the timing of the lighting in the parking lot. And we've got testimony

640
03:01:14.399 --> 03:01:31.520
that the operational hours end at 8:00 PM. We've got testimony that in their other facility it's usually a half hour or so. Is and I'm looking at like Jay and is is a 900 PM time or 9:30 p.m.

641
03:01:31.520 --> 03:01:48.319
like is that reasonable? >> I think nine's reasonable based on the testimony we heard. I agree. >> Okay. 9:00 p.m. >> like that. >> I don't know. They said they said it can take up to an hour after sunset. Sunset

642
03:01:48.319 --> 03:02:05.520
was 8 8:30. So that's what we had said. 9:30 during the test. I'd heard 9:30 during heard. >> No, I heard that they >> Yeah, >> the only thing I would add to that is we did talk about, you know, events that could potentially happen outside. So my

643
03:02:05.520 --> 03:02:26.399
only concern with the lighting shut off. event and we shut off at 9:30. So, how do you >> So, I think that would be part of the event license applications. Yeah. Because you're asking for >> Yeah. Look, if it gets dark,

644
03:02:26.399 --> 03:02:42.080
the the latest it is dark dark around here is like 9:27, like 9:30. So >> an hour after sunset isn't sunset. >> No, because that is their operation because that's a change in the day. >> What a number.

645
03:02:42.080 --> 03:02:58.160
>> I think we just 9 p.m. >> that any security lighting is going to meet the 30% production requirement in the ordinance already >> regulated. anything outside of the special is captured and they obviously

646
03:02:58.160 --> 03:03:12.800
have permission to leave the lights on a little longer. If that's we've heard that those were >> rigged. >> If just a quick quick comment with respect to security lighting, could you note like the difference between the two just so that we have that noted with

647
03:03:12.800 --> 03:03:28.560
respect to the >> Karen, did you have another comment? I'm sorry. Um yeah, I just wanted to make sure that um I I was concerned with some of the questions that came up um that um we were only going to I'm I'm pleased we're

648
03:03:28.560 --> 03:03:44.880
going to say 9:00 at least if not 9:30 at the latest. Um mainly for the safety and security of people working at the pool. Like I 15 minutes after closing, they they could they could have some issue that they need to stay longer. And I certainly don't want younger members

649
03:03:44.880 --> 03:04:01.840
that tend to be the lifeguards having to leave that spot with no lighting. So I'm pleased to see what the suggestion is from Jim that at least 9:00. And that could be the the latest 9:30 could be the absolute latest until it goes to security lighting for instance

650
03:04:01.840 --> 03:04:27.040
for their safety. >> That's why I said 9:30 to begin. >> Okay. I mean, does the board want 9 or 9:30 is what I'm asking. >> I mean, I heard testimony that shine. Okay. Um,

651
03:04:27.040 --> 03:04:43.359
uh, lighting, noise, um, an announce. What else was on your list, Cara? >> I had the public announcements, emergency land, and swim meet any limitations one at a time.

652
03:04:43.359 --> 03:04:59.279
>> Yes, because I'm checking these off, but I don't full list. >> So, so the swim meetings, we have testimony that the season runs like June through the beginning of July. >> They the testimony is that currently at Deer Path there are four um

653
03:04:59.279 --> 03:05:16.080
season meets, which I think is kind of consistent with what we were hearing. I believe the test. >> Yeah. >> Maximum four times like a summer about once every two weeks. >> I'm concerned about us limiting condition about limiting the the level

654
03:05:16.080 --> 03:05:30.960
of operation, but it seems like the concern is addressed with what the testimony was. And the other concern is sounds like unless they get cooperation with Griffith, it's going to be it's going to

655
03:05:30.960 --> 03:05:49.200
stay Europe anyway, which given RFI operations in June end stuff, they may not be able to accommodate that. >> I think over I think it was less about the meets than it was about the PA system. >> Um, and that the endless Yeah. the

656
03:05:49.200 --> 03:06:03.920
endless >> banter and announcements >> and the um and also not necessarily using uh well definitely not guns anymore about whistles and using something visual

657
03:06:03.920 --> 03:06:20.399
instead. I think that would satisfy I think most of the concerns. It's really I don't think it's really it's all the noise. >> Well, it's not like they're I don't think they're outsourcing their pool for other teams. I think that would be the concern. just for the one team, but

658
03:06:20.399 --> 03:06:36.560
that's why it's a it's maybe once a week for the season. >> Don't all these things all fall under >> They would certainly fall under the noise ordinance. So, I think we're covered there as well, Karen. >> Yeah. I just I don't want to see us

659
03:06:36.560 --> 03:06:52.080
restricting the possibility of them having meets there because it'd be a great community resource for people to be able to have a local swimmate rather than going up to Deer Path. um that some people may have more access than they would normally. And also, it's a great way to encourage people to be in town

660
03:06:52.080 --> 03:07:07.120
and they maybe hang out in town afterwards or beforehand and uh and utilize our our wonderful burough uh businesses. So, I I don't want to see us restricting anymore. Obviously, they've got to talk with uh refers about whether they can do it, but I I don't want to

661
03:07:07.120 --> 03:07:23.680
see us restricting it necessarily on our end if we if we can possibly not do. >> Absolutely right. >> Okay. So, I think We covered that. What else on your list? >> I think >> it's covered underance as well.

662
03:07:23.680 --> 03:07:48.560
>> And again, where position of the speakers is covered as well, right? Okay. >> All right. >> That's all I have. >> That's all you have. >> The lights. announcements. I think that was that was suggested. >> Yeah, I think so.

663
03:07:48.560 --> 03:08:11.120
>> ESS and electronic board, but those are things that we um Okay. All right. So, >> I know Mike's ready to vote, but >> All right. And and I thank you thank board for for going along um so that we

664
03:08:11.120 --> 03:08:28.399
could um have this discussion uh one shot. So, uh uh we think we've we got everything there. Okay. Is there a motion? >> Sorry, I pause just for one second. Just want to clarify something with my

665
03:08:28.399 --> 03:08:51.840
professional. >> Well, we're done with >> We can't put anything on the record. >> I I understand. I >> You want him back in the room? We can wait. But I I >> All right. So, is there a motion? >> So, there's a motion and a second to

666
03:08:51.840 --> 03:09:10.319
grant applicables with the waiverss and conditions that we have outlined. Call the roll. >> Mayor Carol, >> yes. >> Mr. Campion, no. >> Council Vice President,

667
03:09:10.319 --> 03:09:25.120
>> yes. Mr. D. >> Yes. >> Miss Gifin. >> Yes. >> Mr. Schlanganger. >> Yes. >> Mr. Shob. >> Yes. >> Miss Swingle. Yes.

668
03:09:25.120 --> 03:09:46.880
>> Miss Whitesman. Yes. Mr. Hayne. >> Yes. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Can't wait. We don't care about your branch. >> I didn't say All right. Um, >> she got some jokes.

669
03:09:46.880 --> 03:10:01.359
>> Got it. >> So, uh, to move things along, um, under item 10 on the agenda, chair items, I'm going to, um, say that we're going to have a discussion of the shake tree ordinance of our next meeting. Is that you'll be ready, Jim, for that as well?

670
03:10:01.359 --> 03:10:16.720
>> Okay. Um, our next meeting is on July 28th. I will let everybody know that we have um ya I would say it's >> um >> that they're on this they're on the schedule. We have our conflict council

671
03:10:16.720 --> 03:10:32.720
because car's not available. So that's really the only substantive item I'd like for us to have on that agenda. Although we do have these other kind of reports to do. I do want to do want those reports. Tara, if you could even zoom in for just the professional awards

672
03:10:32.720 --> 03:10:47.680
or have something written up. >> What I was planning on doing was having it for distribution. Everybody could have looked at it. >> Um, and I will have a couple other um ancillary resolutions. I'll have the one from the extension.

673
03:10:47.680 --> 03:11:04.680
>> Um, there's one other one. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Can we possibly put the reports at the beginning because mayor and I are both not able to vote on >> those

674
03:11:06.319 --> 03:11:23.200
I think it's >> it wasn't originally and then it was so I was kind of surprised when it came down but >> move that to the beginning of the agenda presenter. >> Well no no we're going to have it'll all be under professional reports including shade tree >> so it'll be before the public hearing.

675
03:11:23.200 --> 03:11:40.160
Okay. So, be the That's our normal work. >> Yeah, that's fine. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Um, that's the 28th. August 11th, August 25th. I'm not sure if we >> right. >> So, that's where we're at. >> Yeah. I'm assuming we'll probably have first aid

676
03:11:40.160 --> 03:11:53.359
>> some point. The first a squad is going to finish what they're doing to come back. You haven't got anything from them yet? No. >> So, keep asking. Yep. >> We haven't got anything from them. So, that's Well, >> they know it's not. Yep.

677
03:11:53.359 --> 03:12:14.880
Um um on the bills get a motion second. >> Yes. >> Council M presidenthart. >> Yes. >> Mr. Da. >> Yes. >> Miss Gifin. >> Yes. >> Mr. Schlang.

678
03:12:14.880 --> 03:12:31.399
>> Yes. >> Mr. >> Yes. >> Swinging. >> Yes. Miss Whitesman. >> Yes. Mr. Hayne. >> Yes. >> Thank you. >> Adam go to executive session. >> Nope. >> Motion.

679
03:12:31.600 --> 03:12:44.040
>> All in favor? >> I. >> Thank you. Have a good night. >> Thank you all for the extra 20 minutes.