There he is. He's in there. >> Restaurant. See, that's you, isn't it? >> We can just come and check. >> Yeah, he's >> Yeah, it's just that on the on the attendees there's a Michael C as well, which must be I'm guessing there's
somebody else. I want to make sure that the there's two Michael C's on the list. So, the Michael C that's a panelist, can you just unmute yourself and let me know that you're Mr. Champion? I haven't got the wrong one. >> That's me. >> There we go.
>> There we go. Right, we're cooking with gas now. All right, here we go. >> Is it? >> No. >> All right, so um right.
>> Oh my gosh. All right, so no more further ado. Apologies. Um, I'd like to open the planning board and board of adjustment uh for Flemington Burough this Tuesday, October 7th, 2025.
This inperson and virtual meeting is called pursuant to the provisions of the open public meeting act. Both adequate and electronic notice of this inerson and virtual meeting has been provided by way of publication in the Huntsman County Democrat and Korean newspapers on or about January 23rd 23rd 2025 and
January 19th 2025. In addition, notice of the meeting was posted on the door of the Bur Flemington municipal building located at 38 Park Avenue and any handicap accessible entrances there to posted on the municipal west site, provided to the municipal clerk and distribute to all persons, if any,
requesting copies of consent. This meeting is being recorded with both audio and video and may be rebroadcast. This meeting is a judicial proceeding. Any questions or comments must be limited to the issues that are relevant to what the board may legally consider in which in a decision and decorum
appropriate to a judicial hearing must be maintained at all times. Please write as you are able for the right to the for one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all.
Thank you. Here >> Miss Wingle is absent. Mr. >> Here >> Mr. Dner is absent. Mr. Eckle >> here.
>> Mr. Han, sorry. Mr. Barka >> here >> McM. >> All right. Item one on our agenda as always is an time for public comment. Um, this has to be items that are not on
our current agenda. Does anybody online or in the room have any public comment you wish to make? Seeing none and we didn't receive any by mail. I'm guess then we'll move on to item two. Mayor comments, please.
>> Um well, I suppose everybody knows at this point that the zoning ordinance passed 4 to2. Um, Councilman Long made a motion to table which fails 4 to2 with with Councilwoman Sorrow and then the
past 4 to2. Um so in uh my personal experience having served on the rare intensive planning board for a number of years and this planning board
back a decade ago and now again and um you know I was speaking with a couple of attorneys nobody's ever seen a local municipal government go against a planning board
recommendation on consistency that was as strongly worded as this one um ever. So, it's it's a it's a sad commentary about the fact that, you know, the council had said they were going to come back to the planning board and work with
the planning board last year in November at a meeting that you attended with me and um and did not seek, you know, the input and take suggestions that were made
regarding the ordinance from either myself or Councilwoman or Councilman Wong nor any of the residents that attended which were a considerable number. So um >> okay
any other topics now I item three council comments >> I am extremely disappointed in the council anyone who read the feedback from planner Kyle knows full well that
that is filled with nonconforming do uh statements throughout it um and having walked through the town and spoken to at least 12 or 13
couples residents on Saturday. Um being on the planning board for 15 or 20 years is not the flex that people think it is. And I hope that it's considered in this
burrow. Why? Um we'll see. We'll see how that goes. But if you want to move forward, you don't continue to go backwards. You don't continue to listen to people who've been on planning boards 15, 20 years. That's
it. I was going to say stressful times. Um um I I just I couldn't really say soon as men at the moment. That's not to say HR viol. There you go. Um item for HPC
comments. Dennis, you got anything for us today? >> Yes, we had a meeting on September 17th and we approved a new garage door at 68 Broad Street. Uh, that's it for that meeting. >> Okay, thank you. Um, item five,
professional reports. Um, do we have anything other than what's on the agenda right now? Okay. Yeah, that um item six, approval of minutes. We are backed up a little bit again now, right? But we're going to work on that for the next week.
>> I think there was a draft of the August 16th, right? >> Whatever it was, >> August 12th. No, I keep messing that. September 16th at the meeting. August 12th minutes. >> Um, so if everybody wants to take a look at those, >> yeah, for the next meeting, I I feel like it's too I didn't get chance to read them, so I feel comfortable raising
them up. We'll do it. We'll do them all. >> Yeah, >> it's fine. It have It's fine. It doesn't matter. It's fine. It's all good. um are working on it and that's just the way it goes. All right. So our first item of uh business um now then is item
seven completeness determination. Um this is 379 13th Avenue LLC application 25506 block 28 lot 8. Um before we start Paula or do we start but
are we did we resolve all confusions? Wasn't there some confusions about what type of application? Are we best to let them start and then resolve it during that part? >> Yeah, let let him start. But the only thing I will clarify is this is not the same applicant as the prior iron works for this building. That has been
confirmed. Mr. Gruinberg since he was council for both can clarify that on the record but that part we never actually applied. >> They they started they never finished. They never did it. Yeah. There's still OS for but that's a separate thing. But the one of the confusions we had was was
this the same but it's it's in that same building. Correct. But it's not the same application. >> Just so every location. Well, we'll find out from that. Okay. So, it's totally different. Different unit in the same building.
>> Yes. Understood. It was go back. >> That's what Steve Brewinberg Grubenberg Law Office on behalf of the applicant. 37913th Avenue LLC, which is the owner of the property. Um, and this is not the
application of Arguence Iron Works LLC. Um, I had represented them. They did not move forward on that. They are no longer a tenant in the building. Um actually the owner of the building needed to proceed with eviction proceedings. Um
there I had withdrawn as council on their application before this board which is kind of moved right now since they're not even in the space and there was a municipal court hearing and I was relieved as council there. I filed a motion to be relieved as council there
from them. So that tenant is not part of this application whatsoever. Um the owner of the property though has filed this application for a conditional use permit to allow um Craft Milwork LLC
to be able to occupy a space that was previously occupied by uh Gary Snider Fine Art. >> And um we had filed a zoning permanent not a zoning permit, a change of tenency
application uh in July because Craft Mil work was located in the Greenbrook area and they got flooded out and they wanted to move to Flemington and they needed to do it in a very quick way. We had this space available for them. So, we filed a
a zoning permit application and that was denied um without any indication of why it was denied. Um, I then filed an application to reconsider to the zoning officer with respect to that application
to allow us to be able to use the space for a cabinet maker. And that was denied by way of email. Um, and the email indicated that your recent resubmission for zoning has been denied.
Zoning ordinance 2618B does not list light industrial cabinet shop as an approved use. >> Can I'm sorry. Can I ask which was that our former officer? >> Mr. Tillson issued that email. I think
he actually issued the prior denial. I think it said KT or something on the signature. So, um, rather than going back to the zoning officer one more time, we filed this application for conditional use of
it because the ordinance does allow light industrial for woodworking as part of your zone. So, we filed this application for a conditional use permit. Um, where is there's a question whether this is a quote change of use or
not. I would argue that it's not a change of use because this building has historically been used as a mix of light industrial office. It's a flex space. Um, and we've even approve uh appeared before the board in 2024 and obtained
minor site plan approval for the Golden Heart Adult Daycare thing. So, the board has already seen this application and has reviewed this site in 2024 from a site plan perspective. Um, and you were
satisfied to even allow a used variance to allow Golden Heart to come in. So, we're here today to try and get craft mill work in here as soon as possible um so that they can continue their business that got washed out in Greenbrook. Um,
the conditional use standards, just so that you know, are very limited. >> Oh, it's hot in here. >> Nobody ever says that, >> but I got to wear the monkey suit. >> No, I never do. I never do. It's part of
the job. Um the standards for the hours of uh of a conditional use standard for craft milwork are A. The hours of operation and all site delivery shall be between 7:00 a.m. and 9:00 p.m. We can do that. B out storage outdoor storage
materials shall be prohibited. Don't pres uh propose any of that. C all activities with the exception of employee and visitor parking shall be within an enclosed building. That's what we're proposing. Those are the three simple conditional use standards for
this use. So my request tonight is be deemed complete. Uh under your ordinance, I don't believe I even need notice of hearing because we're going to comply with those three standards. So your ordinance doesn't require from as
far as I know minor site plan approval even if it's required wouldn't require notice of hearing. I'm not asking for any D3 variance. I'm not asking for any variances whatsoever. Just want to get these people in this space so it can be occupied and used both for them and for
the owner of the property. Um Mr. Clerico issued completeness determination uh recommendations. He recommended I think most of the items to be granted waiverss. Um, I think uh
he believed that we were asking for a certification of a pre-existing non-conforming use, but that part of the checklist doesn't apply because we're actually asking for a conditional use permit. Um, so that part of the checklist wouldn't comply. I can go over
the other items, but we're asking for waiverss just to be able to get into that spot. If you want to go over the additional items, I can. But I think my correspondence that I issued today gave a justification why this doesn't require m minor site plan approval. And if it
technically does, you saw it in 2024 granted minor site plan approval then and we're not proposing any changes. >> Are they are they just a cabinet maker or they have a showroom too? >> I think they're just a cabinet maker, but that will come out at the time. Now,
I'm not I'm gonna present that in testimony. If you say, "Steve, you're complete. I'd like to come in here the end of the month if I can." >> An hour, come back. >> Listen, if you thought that was fly, you'd ask a client complain that I called him at
6:10 today. Said it's after working hours. I'm like, it's not after working hours. >> Um, right then. And and just for the boardification, we don't have a site plan waiver mechanism in our ordinance. Might be something that we want to consider for
situations like this. >> Sorry, how does that happen? >> I I it's happened at least twice in the past year. I mean, listen, I I will say it seems indicative to this particular site more so than anywhere else. That's
probably why we've seen it. This building has been vacant. They're trying to reten it. So that's why you've seen a couple. >> Um, but it is something and worthwhile to think about because site plan waiverss are justified in certain circumstances when technically it meets the definition
of the ordinance, but there's no development really taking place. It's just a a change, not even to go to the zoning aspect of it. But >> the other thing I think the board might want to consider is your ordinance defines a conditional use as as
permitted by the planning board. And that automatically makes the zoning officer kick it to the planning board for a conditional use permit. You're not giving your zoning officer any they're not taking it the authority to be able
to say that it's a conditional use under the zone. they automatically kick any type of conditional use to the planning board for a review even though your zoning permit application might say we agree to all of the standards and we're
not making any changes whatsoever. So if you take those words out as required by the planning board or as determined by the planning board that might solve the problem. >> Well, we'll take that on advice and then we'll figure out because we don't want to have unintended consequences from
doing that. But I totally hear what you're saying and certainly we worked on the checklist to try and make things easier for people and we've definitely had a few applications where the checklist seems to be unwieldy for a situation. So I certainly think something for the board to consider.
We'll have to cons consider a slim down checklist for situations like this maybe or something. We've done, you know, we've had that where we're about to do it. So, >> we're making a little we'll get >> and I'd be happy to talk to >> the intention of that, but it's not working as perfectly as we hope and
anything all changes that comes with little swings and roundabouts and I appreciate your input >> and and I'm happy to talk to Miss Kasinski, Miss Mcmanis. I've already discussed it with Miss McManis um about that particular part of the ordinance
because it it doesn't most townships or municipalities don't require every conditional use to go before the planning board for a conditional use permit. They do grant your zoning officer some leeway in that. >> Yeah. Well, we've been trying to get,
you know, the SIC codes out and things like that, but so again, we'll see how that goes, but we'll work on that for sure. I would certainly appreciate the input. Um, so >> I don't mean to cut myself out of a job either if that can happen. >> No, I'm sure we're trying to make the
whole idea of having that checklist was to try to make it easier for people to do applications. So, we certainly that was the intent and we certainly want to move towards anything that can help potential applicants or people within spaces. Absolutely. Um, in terms of this, anybody have any um considerations
for the completeness aspects of it and allowing this applicant to move forward? >> Well, I said, so I'll be honest with you, I didn't have a chance to read Steve's letter out today. So >> we have a letter today.
>> Missed that in a draft. >> I looked at this from the standpoint of how I interpreted the application. >> Right. >> There were no requests for waiverss. >> There were fees paid for. As I noted in a report, the application form didn't check off. They were asking for
>> so refusing as to exactly what this was. Um so the report that I issued three weeks ago um was essentially along along that line. I offered you know some even as a standalone application I offered some
recommendations suggestions I could be waved. I also suggested that if the applicant wanted to make a written request for certain waiverss I suggested what those waiverss would be and I trim that list down to what I thought was need. for right now. I don't even we don't even have a plan or I don't have a
plan. I don't even know where in this building this tenant space is. Um that is well the report again says what we got what we information we've got and what we don't. Um >> it's really up to the board. What what
do you think you need um to evaluate? I mean I would think at the very least you need to have some idea of where in the in the building this space is. Mhm. >> There's there's a lot of parking out there. Where that parking is, whether there's any loading issues that may or may not be involved in this, I mean,
they're going to get deliveries of something. >> Whether that affects other I mean, I I I could sit here and list 30 questions that might be very simple to answer, but I don't there's no documentation. No point in asking questions if the, you know, if you had some basic information
you could look at and reach your decision. >> Yeah. Yeah, I mean we're not asking for a, you know, a sign and sealed site plan of the location, but previously when you came to us, we had a location of the building. We had a building layout and shape rooms. >> I think we think we did.
>> We have that in this one. >> I haven't seen anything on this application. I That's what we talked about that thing took. Certainly can I certainly can provide that if it hadn't been provided on this because it had been previously
presented to the board and approved. >> One one concern I have didn't ask for this or did you apply for anything to the fire um fire marshall yet on this application? >> I think that's part of the change of
tendency application. >> Right. That would be certainly something that I'd be interested in terms especially considering that this is not the group home is one thing that had certain regulations but I'm seeing you're working with wood you're working with you're creating a fire hazard with
you know wood shavings and things like so I'd be really interested to know what a fire marshall's view of this um tenant is in that space right so I think if you don't reach out to him we'll certainly as a board we'll ask him for opinion on this application
when we go to public. >> That's fine. >> I I mean it's a building that's a building code and a fire code issue. It's not usually a planning board issue to >> um you can get input from a outside
agency but it's not usually that's usually whatever the building code in >> we would say compliance with enal requirements as a general but we would also typically provide them with a copy of information which I think would be one of the copies that are presented to the board for input same way we do
environmental and historical >> yeah it's not changing site plan so it's not like there's really Yeah. >> And and to the extent that it our prior the golden partner layout wasn't provided we'll provide
that to Mr. Cler. I thought they had >> Yeah. I I outlined in my report that I issued three weeks ago what how I how I was looking at this. I was even suggesting on the issue between what the zoning officer was saying and what the application was saying as to what the type of
application this was. Uh, I suggested at the time that maybe the board wants to get input from Earl and Beth on the issue. Um, yeah, I wasn't making a determination if you know Steve was right or the zoning office. I mean, just trying to get some factual information
which is why I kind of outlined this in the context. I did and a checklist wasn't even submitted. So, there's no specific request here to wave anything. Well, I I appreciate you did a very thorough review of of the application, but our application that said we're
asking for waiverss from all the checklist requirements because we already received minor site plan approval last year and we don't believe that minor site approval is required. >> No, I tend to disagree with that. You you received minor site plan for a
tenant in one part of the building. Like I said, now you have a different applicant. I mean, if there was a master plan filed for this application, identified all tenant space, and you and you did some sort of a global review of the application for performant uses for parking and everything else, and you're
just coming in and say, "We're changing, you know, unit A is was a whatever before and now it's going to be a different type of a unit." Then you have a plan of record. But these are independent applications, not a global. And maybe your maybe the fact that your
client is the owner, maybe he intends for this to be that. Maybe he intends to have this as a master, you know, development plan. So the subsequent tenants if they run into this um can >> I'm h again I'm happy to provide the the
plan that showed all of the units >> uh last time that was presented to the board that had the uh golden art marked off and we can mark off where this unit is located and that would show you along with that survey what's going on here.
But again, what we're proposing here, if you saw what the testimony is going to be, is extremely limited. I think it it provided for four parking spaces and two deliveries a week. >> Is this tenant going into where the
Golden Heart was approved for? >> No. >> So therefore, to Bob's point, this is not the same application. It's not We didn't give a minor site plan approval for this application. So yeah, right. >> Let's just be clear. We didn't we didn't give a m we didn't give a site approval for this location unless as Bob said
you're going to come in I the client's going to come in and do >> something for the whole building for all the spots. We can certainly be open to that rather than you coming in him coming in for individual tenants. >> I need something to think about. >> Maybe in the future I'll I'll entertain that. I'm just trying to get these more
people six. So >> I understand we're just suggesting that that might be a good idea for him rather than coming in for each one. Yeah. >> Right. especially if they're conditional users and the wording is what the wording is right and we have to work with the ordinance as it is. So we just
made both made a really good suggestion that that's a good idea to do that in the future but to save everybody time and effort. Um but now we have we so I just wanted to be clear that we do not have a site plan approval for this location that you apply for now which keep you said it a few times. I just
want to be clear. >> Okay. >> Right. Okay. So if you're asking to not do any of the things that but we want we have to list out then what we do want right is that correct? >> Well what I would recommend is if the board is inclined to grant the
completeness and grant the waiverss but you do think that there's some information maybe not specifically as identified here that you'd want to see such as that unit plan that was submitted with the prior application um or anything else. We have a survey and we have photos of the exterior of the
building from all sides. So if there's something else you want to see and we can deem them complete and recommend that they bring that information so you have it for the hearing then you could tell me >> I'd like to know what they're doing with all their waste all the extra wood that's cut what they're going to be how they're going to get rid of it. Yep.
>> For instance, that's >> fire safety in the and if I because I'm >> perhaps there would be >> tenant would be different >> in prior applications we never had a checklist we have a checklist and since I kind of identified on here the items I said complete even on the once you go
through these and decide whe you want those or not well do you want a checklist submitted I'm asking the board's got it in. So item, you know, item D is whether you um do you want a checklist. Item C is do
you want a a corporate disclosure statement? This is an >> the corporate disclosure statement is part of the application, Bob, and it was already provided. >> Okay. Um a certified list of property owners be noticing >> because it's not required because we're
not asking for >> I'm not arguing the merits on anything. >> It's not on your checklist either. The 200 foot list is on the ship. >> Not for a minor site plan. You have it. You have it for a certification of a pre-existing non-conforming use, which is not what we're asking for here.
>> Oh, not correct. It falls under the other one. Right. >> I review this as a non-conforming based on what the zoning policy said. >> But that's not what we applied for because we didn't apply. We didn't appeal the zoning officer's denial. We didn't ask for an interpretation. we
filed for a conditional use permit because quite honestly I wasn't going to keep going back to the zoning officer or appealed him because he was reading the ordinance incorrectly and I could go to the board and say give me a conditional use permit respectively
but that's that's what our relief is. We're not asking for a certification >> conditional use for this location. You're not you're not you're not appealing the the even though you provided it. You're not appealing the zoning. >> The zoning law officer is correct that it's not a permitted use a principal
permitted use in the zone, but he didn't look at the issue of whether it was a conditional use. So I'm saying it's a conditional use and we're entitled to a conditional use permit under the municipal land use law. >> I just want to hear what else is on
Bob's checklist. If if you might, I I boiled it down to the items that in my letter. Um >> yeah, >> I'm sorry I didn't print that out. So I would rather have I'll just go through what's he's violated is not done yet.
But I'm I'm gonna direct him to the part of his letter that I responded to, which I think is the bottom part of your letter, Bob, where you indicate you you would entertain the waivers for all the other items, but these are the items that you would like you thought might be
deemed incomplete for and that's what I was just doing. >> Okay. So, I was doing a B C. That's exactly what I was just doing. >> Okay. >> Oh, Bob. And I I got I want to apologize. I'm not really prepared to discuss what Steve has this letter though. I just got the letter. I just
saw it tonight. I had no idea. >> I wasn't aware I was on officially on tonight until looked at the agenda. >> Boss did indicate that we might some October 7. >> Go ahead Bob.
>> This is not well the minor site plan. Steve is indicating they're asking for a waiver for minor site plan. So when I said get a checklist item for minor site plan, I guess they're saying they want waivers for all items that would be minor site plan. So let's just continue
in the context of what I have here and you can decide whether the 200 foot owners list again if there's no notice required then I guess that's something you you know you could wait. >> It's not even it's not that particular one's not applicable because if we look
under site plan you're right. You're right. I'm sorry. >> So that that's just an I'm sorry. I'm sorry. You are correct. Um the uh Burough Water and Sewer Department completed form A. >> Yeah. Um >> from the tenant
>> always item that was his age. That's always required for change of use. >> Again, we didn't think it was a change of use because we're not changing any of the it's a change of teny but not a change of use. But we can file we can complete that form.
>> Mike's on the line. >> Mike is a change of tenant always a change of use and need a change of use for for the water. You confirm >> correct a for will need to be filled out. >> So a change of tenant is a change of use.
>> A change requires for >> A. So H needs to be provided. >> We can do that. >> What else? And you said the corporate disclosure was on the application form. >> Yes. >> Told us who all the owners of the corporation are. >> Yes. >> 100%
one owner of the LLC. That's for the owner of the property. >> Um uh I will search on here. I think you you may have seen it in some >> we did. I had wait.
Which one was that? That was >> that was >> that would bring each waiver chase title search. >> Well, I thought we were going to the one at the bottom of your correspondence about B, C, F, H, and M.
>> I'm looking at the letter. I'm sorry, but why don't you read off what those items were? >> B. We already did B, >> C, >> C, F, >> F, and H. and H is the one that will be form A and form B which we'll provide.
>> Uh M is uh submission of resolutions applicable to the property. Um and I provided the the one from last um last year which is the only one that I'm aware of. >> That's the one you provided today. >> Yes. And then we move down to W, which is a
written statement submitted by applicant identifying the request for waiver of checklist requirements. I did put that in the original. We were asking for a waiver from everything, but you can consider this correspondence of October 7th, that same written request.
Um, number two is I have an address. >> I have some temporary waiverss in here. If you want to do those, well, go. Uh, >> a traffic impact statement has a temporary waiver. Again, I was to wait for input from Jay. I have no idea whether that's required or not but
>> I think the two deliveries of of week after that and you know um also as a a document signed and sealed but left that as a temporary waiver in the context
that we may not need it. Um now again this is on the checklist. This information is supposed to be on plan. That's why it's being listed here by name and address, phone number of the owner and applicant. Sounds like well I'm not sure what plan we're going to get or what kind of plan he's going to
submit. >> Yeah, it's not we're pres we're not proposing a separate site plan. We're asking for waiverss from all those checklist requirements, but we provided you with the name and address of both the owner and the applicant who's the same.
>> Just not on on a plan. to the left, right, in the application also. >> So, we have it >> and and >> I'm not trying to muddy the waters here. I'm just trying to actually help and see if this helps bridge a gap. If he's
going to provide a unit layout and identify where the unit is. Can we look at that as the plans for purposes of >> Yeah, again, it's it's what information the board feels. I'm just going through the checklist. week.
>> Well, again, do you need me to take that layout plan that was presented last time and write the name and address of the owner of the property on it? >> Honestly, that's a good idea. And also because it'll be able to use it for any other tenant he has to come as well
because then we can just it can just then that that regulatory information will be on that plan and it'll have that one can use it for multiple sites. >> Okay. >> Um and that should be you can put Yeah, >> I don't think that
you're talking about this plan here of the overall site. >> There was there was a >> Yeah, there was a plan that had >> internal, right? >> Yeah, it had like the the layout of the units. >> Did I say voice? I got that.
>> It's he submitted it with the other applicant for this site, not this. >> I had assumed that you got it, Bob. I'm not sure that you got it. >> It was with your letter you submitted today. >> No, >> it was with your original letter. >> I thought it was in the original letter. You're saying that you're not you don't
have it. Why would you have it? >> In my report, I say what I got. What information I got? Is it on this list? I don't I don't see it. >> If it's not on your list, that's what I'm going to get if that's what I >> So, there's some other document that's
not on my list that's going to show the layout of the building and the tenants facing the building. Yes, I have seen it. So, >> and again, if it's referring to the previous application and the internals, they're not internals of the the actual unit that you're referring to in this application.
>> It they are it's it's an overall thing of the building showing where the units are. >> So, there was images of I was think the intern. >> It's okay. Let's wait till we see it. Yeah. >> Because it seems to me that it's the inside of the building, the entire inside of the building where you can
identify where it is. To be quite honest, I don't remember what it showed, but let's see. We know we need it. He knows he needs it. Yeah. >> So, let's have it be submitted. We can look at it. We will have it. >> Let's go through these items in part >> C.
Is two and did we get to We went to W. Do we get to two and three and 4 G and 4 H? Do we get any agreements on those yet? >> Well, he said the name and addresses. It's not going to be on the book. He may may or may not put it on Facebook. >> Put it on the plan. the name and address. What's the next one? Three. What's that?
>> Three is not applicable. >> I just can you tell where it is? >> The names of all current property owners within 200 ft of the property and property. >> That's not necessary. What's 4J? >> Uh zone uh track zoning schedule existing zoning criteria proposed
conditions including bulk requirements such as lot area depth blah blah blah uh existing or proposed impervious coverage calculation. It's basically what you would have for a site cleaning on existing conditions to what >> you can put you can put the zone in um put that in that plan too. You can say this is in whatever rate and what the
requirement. So that can be simply written out on that little plan we're asking for. >> I I provided you want me to that that's asking I I can put it's in the TC commercial transition commercial district. >> That's what that is. Just it needs to be
something with a check off that it's written down so that everybody's aware where it is there's no confusion because we've had an application come once before that thought they were in one and they weren't. So then there was a problem. So that's why we asked for it to be written there. >> Okay, >> let's put it on there. That's 4G, isn't
it? Put that on there. >> Tax nav sheet. Again, >> they already did the tax stuff. I've got tax stuff, right? Have we? We got tax information for that. >> No, blocking lot. Again, this is stuff that's supposed to be on the plan. Plan supposed to identify the block and lot information. >> Yeah.
>> Whether you need that or not, we're just saying that that's what the checklist. >> Well, we ask everybody else to do it. So, don't know why this applicant can't do it. It's based on a plan. What's nine? >> A key map. >> Key. >> Yes. >> A key map show where the where the
property is in relationship to the surrounding property. >> Weren't all these issues that you had indicated you recommended waivers being granted at least for temporary? >> No, he's asking which ones we want, which ones we don't want.
>> Right. We want that. Do you want to have a key plan? >> I don't think so. Anybody else feel strongly? Shout out. Let's move on. 13. >> What's 13? >> Uh, building envelope size, location of existing proposed structures with setback lines shown and dimensions of
existing proposed structures from property limits. >> We're not proposing any changes whatsoever to the well existing and proposed. >> Right. I think that might be something suitable for the for the owner this
whole property. >> We have it on the survey. Oh, we have it right. We don't need it. Additional 30. >> That was 13. >> That was 13. Yeah. No. 30. What was all right? >> Actually 13.
>> February 15. uh schedule required sign standard sign area sign height it's all sign related to >> new signs the building >> no it's going to be existing signage in on the existing spot whatever existing signage >> there's no signs there's no change in
signs >> which which sign is he going over >> you know >> whatever was previously that but he's not we're not proposing any changes to whatever signs on site. >> Sam will have to go through a sign
application anyway. So that'll be covered through that. Do that separately through significance. >> And he can show us which signs. He's got the photos of all the >> Yeah. >> building facad. He could show us which one. >> Right. >> 32B. What's that one? >> Uh location capacity and dimensions of
existing proposed off street parking loading areas including documentation of ADA compliance for handicap and accessible route. We're not proposing any changes to the site. The site's always be used this way. Will the plan show parking? >> Plan you submit will have the parking on
it, right? >> I don't It will have >> on what what is >> I don't recall what's on there, but we we'll make sure to uh testify or reflect where the parking for the space. in your other application keep referencing you did show where the parking lot you know
that was a concern and it's still a concern where this person is in under their teny which faces they have to provide that >> thank you 32C >> uh calculation number of parking spaces required by the ordinance for standard
and ADA parking we're not changing anything this is an existing site we can show the four parking spaces that we're going to be proposed, >> right? I >> document the force space is all you need for that use. >> Yes.
>> Yes. 32D. >> I'm sorry. 33 what? >> 32D. What's >> 32D is Iowa? Iowa. Again, they have a site plan that shows parking. They'll show Iowa. They should show. >> Yeah. >> Uh especially if they're going to have low, you know, if they're bringing it at
the beginning, we'll hear testimonies. Then we kind of, you know, be able to use to bring material existing block. I think we'll assume that the ARS are correct and pre-existing 32E >> uh entrance and exit vehicular circulation patterns including truck
turning counts. >> We're again we're not you're going to hear testimony that there's going to be very few deliveries and it's not going to be tractor trailer deliveries. It's an existing site an
industrial light industrial site uses previously on there. >> A question of that site has no to my knowledge traffic constraints. There no stop signs.
There's offices in the back. You know, like little league is back there. They have meetings. They all get out at the same time. There's no stop sign, you know, from the back. cars are coming this way. There's no there's nothing. Is the is the landlord immuneable to like
doing something to control some of the traffic back there? >> I'm sure the landlord would be if that if that was an issue raised by the board. I've heard something talk too much about the merits of the application. But if what you're saying, Hold on. If what you're saying is that
>> you may want to hear information regarding that yes >> issue, then that's because if we're going to grant a temporary waiver on some of these things so he can be deemed complete and move forward to the hearing, >> he's going to want to know what you're going to want to hear.
>> And I appreciate that. >> I'm probably more familiar with the site than anybody else because I live right next Well, not right next to >> I see. Mayor, are you within 200 feet of this property? >> No, I am not. >> You did learn how to ride a bike on >> that would be a good property to learn
how to ride a bike. >> Yeah, we'll just say we'll expect to hear some testimonial. >> I'm sure something. >> Oh, you know, I know, right? 32G. Which one is that book? New >> uh location of fire ladies and other funding restrictions.
kind of goes along with what we just talked about really. Let's expect us to ask questions. >> Um 33A I don't understand you understand what we're doing. >> I I think so. >> Let's get through it and understand what we're doing.
>> I think I'll get there. >> It again I come back to it speaks to the fact I think we need to do something difficult with our business. >> That's got to be that. >> It's it's it's unwieldy for some of these smaller things. 33A >> is the floor plan for plan and location
of unit in building was not provided. >> That that would be that's the big one. >> Ding ding ding. >> 35 was solid waste management plan including location of solid waste storage screening and means of disposal including amount of pickup per week and recycling. >> You already mentioned that one. We
definitely need that. And especially with it being wood dust and things like that, it's extremely like flammable and I'm worried about treats like that. But we don't want sawdust on the replacement going on. >> All right. So, do we assume I'll ask the
board as a general Bob's letter mentioned some waiverss um and then we've been through the items that he said it's incomplete for and we've stated from those which ones we want to see in the in when the application comes to public hearing. >> Is there anything else anybody feels
strongly about? >> I'm looking online. I guess I garbage. >> Oh, just uh trash. >> All right. And so >> we're clear. >> Yeah. So what what >> clear >> what I would recommend is um I'm looking
actually at Mr. Bloomberg's letter, which I hadn't seen yet, but I have it here. And he goes through all the items that we just went through, right? >> And in there, he talks about what was provided with the documents, and we've gone through um the waiverss that were
requested that I would call temporary waiverss with the understanding that either >> documentation can be provided or testimony is going to be provided to deal with those issues. Certainly, as with any other application, if you want more than what's been provided, the
application gets ads and you ask for more. But I think you've pretty much laid out what it is that >> Yeah, those are on your risk. >> And I appreciate you flagging the issues that are important to you too that you want to see so that we can >> address. We want to let you know what we want to hear and you know, this this
board likes to hear about stuff. So, we'll let you know what we like to hear about. >> So, I I have a list of all those. Um we can have a I can go through them or we could just know that what we just discussed is basically what your motion C the application to complete subject to
the waiverss the I would say Bob's confirmation of what was provided because there is some information that was provided with this letter that he's saying is satisfying certain items. So you would just confirm that that information was actually submitted. >> I I listed what I received. Apparently there's other information.
>> No, but that's what I'm talking about. So for instance, he says in in the letter and again I'm going to today's >> last thing here just just identify well tonight or whatever which items we're saying the applicant has to provide board decide do you want those in
advance of the meeting uh and if so how long uh and and then you that's what you're voting on everything else you would granting some sort of a waiver. >> So really the only thing you're looking for is the information with regard to that unit layout and that you're going to want to respond I can I can get that
to you to borrow >> with all with those bits on like the owners on there. So you just you only have to produce one drawing then of some stuff, right? >> The other stuff has either been provided with the letter or we're going to grant temporary waiverss and then it will be
addressed by way of information or testimony. >> Yes, >> that makes sense. I'll lay it and I can lay it all out. >> Ask me >> and we'll say 10 days. That's our mutual thing. But you said you've already going to be able to provide it and 10 days before the 28th. Could we get you in on
that? Is you you lo >> So the only documentation >> you're requiring is the the where where the unit is in the building. The plan showing where the unit you're not asking for solid waste. You're not asking for asking for solid yes to that.
>> But you're asking for it as part of testimony how we're going. But you want to see the plan. You want to see the plan of the layout of the building and where the unit's located. Um, >> we like to look at stuff beforehand and get a feel for it so that it helps the
process go quicker for you when we get there that night. I'm just clarifying what >> what um uh just to confirm with Bob that we're going to get him that plan that was presented last time reflecting where
this unit is and showing where uh the overall survey is of the property in terms of what's out there. um we'll provide the testimony on fire safety for the wood wood disposal and those other addition have any document
to show where that is on the property. Uh if I might present that at the time there's dumpsters on the property. I can't recall >> again this is really for the board. I can tell you right now there's really nothing here for me to review going
forward. I can come to the meeting and I can listen if I any questions come up I can ask questions at the meeting but you know effectively there's nothing on paper. >> Right. And again this is there are no site changes here. This is an existing site.
So, in terms of the functionality, we will present testimony to the board that this is an appropriate conditional use, but we're not presenting a full-blown site plan application to change the site because none is being proposed. >> Yeah.
>> But I did hear what the mayor indicated regarding questions about traffic and signage and I'll present that to my client as part of testimony. But the important thing for I think the burrow and for my client is to get this tenant in there in this space.
>> So yeah, and I totally agree and the only reason that it's best to get as much information as we can ahead of time because it I find >> it makes the process go quicker on the night >> if if we don't have to ask and listen to testimony. We have it already which makes things go quicker. But that's your
prerogative to testimony or you can give it in advance. Right. Okay. So, so we are but we are the one thing to Bob's point that we are asking for in advance at least 10 days before the hearing is that plan and you're going to put on it the information that they ask for the
name, the address, the zoning, the those other things that are all under section four. Uh so I think it's two and then four the little sub subsection by four. >> Everything else is going to be temporary waiverss and uh deal with the by way of
testimony or other information. Yes. >> Yes. >> You're looking um you're looking for four to >> Yes. >> Yes. So two it will be provided
>> for G >> or H Go to 2B. I wrote >> you a waiver >> on G. I'm providing you what I I thought I was just providing you with the
zoning, what zone it was located in. I'm not providing you with calculations as to lot area, width, depth, yard setbacks, building coverage, and all of that. I I mean I can show what the table is, but I need I would need an engineer to go out
to provide that additional information. I thought you wanted to know what zone it was in to your point about a prior application. >> So just the zone and the zoning requirements. >> Zone and the zoning requirements can go on that layer like it can just be printed out. >> Just the zone and zoning requirements
all the existing. >> Okay. >> Yeah. And this is going to like obviously be like a little tester for what requirements we need for a conditional use application. It's gonna it's going to help us focus on which ones we need. And then when we get done 4G 4 H what else?
>> 24 G 4 H. >> I got 32B. I'll make sure that was provided. That was provided. >> What did you say? >> 32B. All right. So, these are the things that I am classifying as temporary waiverss
that you will provide by way of testimony or additional documents. >> Right. I was I just marked down things we definitely see. >> Yep. 32 B C D E G E all the remaining we would need information for the actual testimony.
I remember also with previous Sen there were details of the interior just cleaning it wasn't it was yeah like it was just useful at the time it wasn't necessarily demon it was just to demonstrate like where I understand
those changes but it definitely helps >> inside photographs >> yeah that's what I remember >> I do I do remember that only because we used to be in this shower or something. >> All right. So, are you clear, Mr. Clear? >> Yes. happy. I know we're trying to get
away with provide something new to home down. >> All right. So, approach completeness deeming it complete subject to the granting of the waiverss and the temporary waiverss that we discussed. Motion and >> I move it. >> Second.
>> Yes. >> Mr. Yes, >> councilor. Yes, Mr. Campion. >> Is that >> Yes. Sorry about that. >> M. >> Yes. >> Weman. >> Yes.
>> M Mr. Sh. >> Yes. >> Mr. Echo. Uh yes, >> Mr. Henderson. >> Oh, he knows he counts tonight. Wait to jump in. That's right. >> Even though they motion and second was
actually kind of >> Yes, >> I did notice you did that and I was like remind >> I asked her to do that. So if you want to do a different way in the future, we'll talk. >> No, that's fine. >> Sorry. >> Sorry. >> Is that everybody we good? >> Yes.
Thank you all very much. Appreciate it. >> Before you sit off your chair though, >> um No, I'm not. It's not a You usually ask me about a date and you didn't ask me about a date. >> You know what? You're right. >> Well, so um >> I heard October 28th though.
>> You did hear October 28th. What I will also say though is we currently already have a >> large >> complete determination of public and ongoing and we're going straight to a public on that. which hold
>> did we say we were doing both, right? >> I think we I think it's supposed to follow on to both unless we speak to them and say it's just completeness and then I don't know. I thought that's what we at the last meeting. >> Yeah. No, they're they're to adjourn both. >> They're coming to to do
>> because they just had one final item to bring to us for completeness. want to come. >> So that and they they get presidents over I'm afraid because they were there before. So which is that's why I wanted you to just sit and listen I want to work this out.
It's going to be one of those that if you do get on it's going to be crazy late. I I don't know. Isn't it going to be I don't know. That's just my feeling. I'm not one of the secret >> unless they postpone. Sure. We would tell you as >> how about if we put me on for the 28th,
but I understand that if they're on and we'll say and see if you're not going to get hurt that night because both of them are on. >> Yes. And we'll communicate that >> because they don't have to notice. >> I was just going to say >> yes, we'll put you on and also if they pull if they they delayed till then for
this meeting. So if they do that again, we will contact you ASAP. >> Is the next day available veterans? What's the next? I forgot the next >> November 11. >> November 11. Is it for the 19th? >> No, we do the 18th and the 25th for two
weeks in a row. >> Oh, we pushed it on. >> Yeah. >> So, it be all the way to the 18th. That's our thing. >> But I just wanted to have that open discussion with you so you're aware. >> Understand? >> Yes.
>> Right. She's going to be Carlo will not be here guessing your credits. Let's figure that out. Figure that out. >> We'll post for October 28. No, nobody else gets their stuff in. >> Yes. Unless you can do a speedy public
hearing in the fastest public hearing in the west. We're going to talk. >> You have to challenge me and I bet you I would take that challenge. >> Worked out. >> Okay. Thank you all. Take care. Have a good night. Okay. >> All right.
>> What the 18th? We said one of the dates to the 18th >> 18th and then the following week. >> I know there was a reason for doing it, but I can't remember what it was. >> Yeah, it is. Yeah. Sorry.
>> Yeah. All right. For fun, everybody. Um All right. So that being said that we'll just talk about that. So item eight public hearing by the applicant's request um is tabled till the 1028 25th meeting. No further notice will be
required. Um item nine also by the applicant request public for bless wellness that item is um they asked we haven't actually scheduled a date for that. They've given us until the end of the year. So when they're ready to bring
what they bring, then we'll be putting them in. So that's not an official date. >> They're going to renotic then. >> Yeah. They noticed. They noticed. >> Yeah. They noticed to be here tonight unless you're going to announce the date specific. >> Yeah. So what I would do is we I thought we were carrying both of them to the
next meeting of October 28th without further notice. Now, if they choose to delay further, they can always do that. But they have given us the extension through the end of the year is just so Carla doesn't have to keep asking them for it and we don't have to keep track at the end of the year. We're fine but
they were technically scheduled for tonight and now we're being adjourned to the 28th. >> Okay. So that's what we need to say. We're adjourning to the 28th. No further notice and we may do that. So okay apologies if I wrote that wrong. So that's what we're doing >> to the 28th. >> So there'll be two. >> There won't be two. We're just we have
to say that legally. >> Wait. What do you mean? They'll beat you. >> No, I mean Spork and >> West get >> Yeah. So that's that will be on the agenda next time. Spark plus and
>> um >> we might need it tonight. >> We should be good. Um >> resolutions. Let's get to the resolutions. Our first one is resolution 202513 which is memorializing the circle reality decision that we made back in
the day. Um it was it was issued. Anybody have any concerns with what um car created for us? >> Okay. >> I just need a motion to second the
eligible >> not eligible. >> Yeah. Um, that's correct. Uh, Ann Mike and, uh, Miss >> Aar. Thank you. And Miss Avar, >> right? >> So, it's on.
>> So, do I know for them? >> No. No. >> They're ineligible. So, if you look at look at the voting page that I have there, and if we just go right by that, that's that'll walk through. >> Yeah. >> A motion. >> No. >> All right. So, wait.
There was a second >> council council woman. >> Yes. >> Mr. Camp. >> Yes. >> Miss Weissman. >> Yes. >> Miss G. >> Yes. >> Mr.
Mr. >> Yes. Mr. Eckle. >> Mr. Eckle's not on our list. >> Yeah, but >> he mustn't have voted because we had that was it. He wasn't. >> Oh, okay. >> So, that's just not here. Done.
Whitesman. >> He sat through the hearing. >> But he didn't vote for the um >> the actual action. >> Only vote now. You voted then. >> Okay. No, I voted no.
>> Oh, you vote. You can only vote for this if you vote yes. >> Correct. >> Yeah. So, you did Whitesman. Swingle's not here. Shy did and Schlanga. >> That's it. >> That's all you can do. Mark was absent, so he count. >> Okay. >> So, that's of the people that are here. We've got one, two, three.
>> Was here. >> Six votes. You have six votes. >> Seven. >> Oh, counting again. Okay. >> Six. You have six. That's both for
>> Oh, you know why? I counted Mr. W twice. >> One, two, three. >> You're worthy. >> Five is the eligible vote and five is the votes. >> We all said yes. We said yes. Right. Yeah. Let's try that. Right. That one's
done. Thank you. passed. Right. The next one is item 11, resolution 202515, the Liberty Village amendments. I called it seemed like an appropriate name for it, but >> All right. Has a couple changes that we
received last minute because everything was last minute and >> I apologize, but we're we're getting better. >> We're getting there. >> Um, so I'm just going to go through quickly, put them on the record. >> Uh, the first one is on page three. The third full whereas uh the reference to
33 add the proposed 123 housing units 33 should be changed to 32. Uh if we go to page four uh subsection five regarding condition 12 we're going to take out the word completeness. Uh subsection seven with regard to
condition 31 after the word inaccurate. In the last sentence, we're going to say based upon the applicant's work required to satisfy condition number 12 above. And all that is is an exact recitation of what that condition said in the prior resolution. Um, just that little those
couple words were omitted. So, I just want to Bob pointed that out. So, I want to make sure that's perfectly clear there. Uh, we don't have any more until we get to page 10. Um number five regarding condition 31 um the word in
the third line retention basins should be detention basins. Page 11, paragraph 4, uh, we're going to say, "The applicant shall work with McManus to ensure that the proposed evergreen trees are properly placed in
order to shield the phase one project as much as possible from the neighboring property owners on Brown Street." Those are the three words that we're inserting. >> Well, that is it. >> Oh, and one more change. Um, the references on page 13 to August 16th
should be September 16th. >> Okay. >> Other than that, that's it. >> We along the line, I know I brought this up and you trusted the house that it's not going to be underwater, >> right? And just going back to the
original, we're still sitting out there. The clarification of the Stangle Road ownership, I think that needs to be still figured out and worked out. because the card they don't match your
so somebody you don't got Chris Corsini whoever you guys have to work together to figure out the ownership of Stangle where it starts and where it ends. >> Okay. Don't forget >> you want it.
>> Uh no. >> Well my camp my camper gets plowed >> right. So um but >> mayor if I can reach out to your office if >> they call me. >> Yeah. I think we need input from the
administration. >> Mike maybe Chris Corsini and just kind of figure out how else it's going to work. >> I mean Cangle is historically >> to put in the current vernacular a mess. So on both sides oh yeah we were
shipped. >> Sure we can work it out. I think there are some limitations from all association back against the DCA and whatever you will need. >> Okay. >> All right. Can I get a motion then to
memorialize the resolution as um itemized amendments by >> Harrow Harrow for Gen Hill? >> No help. I think you've got >> it. This isn't the final version.
>> No, you're not on it now. Sorry. >> Can't leave it on this. He didn't know. >> He didn't vote >> on the 16th. Oh, you were. >> He wasn't. He was on it. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Fazaro Gin the white swing show.
Swingle's not here. >> Yeah. Dash here. Swingle's not here. >> Do you Gen Campion Whitesman show? >> Okay. Thank you. second. >> Uh, council sir, >> yes.
>> Mayor, >> yes. >> Miss Gin, >> yes. >> Um, Mr. Campion, >> yes. >> Miss Whitesman, >> yes. >> Mr. >> Right. >> Yeah.
>> Right. No, no, that's it, right? That's it. Okay, >> it's all of them. >> All right. So, do you need to um car probably I can't I'm not going to sign this one. You're going to need to print out a new one and I'll sign that one. Right. >> Yeah, I got that. >> Yeah, we'll get that done. We got that
done last time. >> Drop it up some. Okay. Thank you everybody. All right, let's move on to item 12 because I was determined to make sure in the packet
there was everyone. Thanks everybody. >> All right. Can I get a motion to audit the bills, please? >> Yes. >> That's Whitesman. Hey. >> All righty. Uh M.
>> Yes. >> Yes. >> Mayor. >> Yes. Council Visa. Yes. Mr. Campion >> abstain. >> Uh, Miss Guff. >> Yes. >> I did Whitesman. Do you want her again?
Miss Whitesman. >> Oh, yeah. >> Mr. Mr. >> Mr. Schwinger. >> That's it. >> All right. Thank you. All right. Usually I say, "Do we ever need to go to any session?" But yes, we
do. But shall we do what's the wording when we have to because we're not going to come back. >> Okay. So, um I need a motion and a second to go into executive session to discuss professional contracts. Uh there will be no action taken during executive session and we will not be returning to
public. So, we will be closing public session now. >> So, moved. Second. Right. So, what do I need to do with this? >> Yeah. >> Stop it. Oh my god. He's leaving. >> Can you hit pause? Oh, you could hit
stop recording. Listen. Stop. Oh, it's right there. You want to do it? I can do it. >> You can do it. We don't want to lose our people.