--------- good morning everyone this is a good morning this is a regularly scheduled meeting of the town of Fort Meers Beach local planning agency all members are present and it is February 11th 2025 9:00 a.m. if you could please stand to
the invocation and the Pledge of Allegiance IED Al to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and
justice for all let's see well with Valentine's Day on the horizon let's let's all remember to be kind and good to each other and our community amen amen
amen may I have a motion please for an approval of the final agenda unless anyone wishes to make any changes so second thank you thank you to the two gems is there any discussion hearing no discussion any objection to that motion and hearing
none the motion carries unanimously the next is an approval of the minutes for the local planning agency meeting of January 9th 2025 does anybody have any corrections there is one little one on page 11 does anybody else have anything else I think they refer to
uh CPD let me just find it it's it's it's a scribner's era it really is nothing so I could let it go it's just the they don't they don't have the LPA correct um well if nobody else noticed it I'm going to leave it alone may I have a
motion to approve the minutes it really was nothing so thank you thank you Don and thank you John any discussion on the motion hearing none any objection to the motion motion carries unanimously thank you okay so the next item is public comment but this is public comment for
any item that is not on the agenda no that is on the agenda but if you want to speak for a hearing you should wait until the hearing okay does anybody have anything just you know you just want to say no okay thank you next item is the the first item is a variance and this
variance is for 7205 Estero Boulevard I'm going to read the title and then I'll ask for exp parte and all of that and Nancy will give her speech um so the title is a resolution of the Town Council of Fort Meers Beach Florida approving approving with conditions or denying a variance for the property
located at 7205 Estero Boulevard generally identified as strap number 0 34724 w1001 1.000000 in Fort Myers Beach Santini Plaza to allow a multi-unit complex to
develop individual unit signs that are a maximum of 32 square fet as well as developing a 32t ground sign to display the complex name and branding allowing for the structure to be developed on the property line providing for other clarifications is necessary providing
for conflicts of law scrier errors severability and providing for an effective date um could I have expart Jim N how about you Don Doug no ma'am no Jane Jim none n John and I have to recuse myself and I have filed the
report with uh with Amy because as most of you know I have a business there and will be impacted okay okay Nancy thank you so um thank you Miss Madam chair so um the variants as well as the CPD that is on your agenda today both of these
are um quasi judicial in nature and this requires that the hearing for both of these items uh complies with procedural requirements that have been established in Florida law and in our Land Development code so today your hearing
uh your hearings your public hearing will be less formal than if you were before a circuit court judge but they will be a little bit more formal than uh typically when we have discussion of other items um we must follow basic standards of due process and that
requires uh that certain items uh be provided notices the application of the correct standards and that your decisions are made on competent and substantial evidence that's presented to you today in written documents or
through oral testimony so your job your responsibility today is to evaluate that testimony and the information for each of these two items and then draw a conclusion regarding whether the criteria that is in your Land Development code or in state law has
been satisfied so pure speculation or mere opinions that is not based on competent facts legally cannot be considered by you in evaluating um an agenda item testimony by professionals who are qualified who you believe are
experts in a particular area has been considered competent evidence by Florida courts as well as testimony by neighbors and residents who have fact-based information such as minutes surveys engineering reports or testimony that is
based on their personal in personal knowledge and experience so U members of the audience of the public if you intend to speak please keep this in mind um and when you come forward please state your name clearly for the record whether or
not you have been sworn in you do have a variance on your agenda today and just a reminder a unanimous decision by you by eligible voting members of the LPA to approve the variance um shall constitute
final agency act action subject to a request by anyone for an addition additional hearing or review of the matter by the Town Council if that request uh for the additional hearing is received by the town clerk within 10 days so for purposes of efficiency we
want to go ahead and take care of a few housekeeping items I first need to ask the town clerk whether or not um the two items have been properly noticed for today's hearing yes they have been okay and um also at this time if there's any
uh LPA member who has a conflict of interest as our chair has disclosed um this is the appropriate time to also make that um disclosure does anybody else have a conflict on any of the two okay um and
the chair has indicated that she has already filed the form 8B um and at this point uh Madam chair it would be appropriate to go ahead and swear in the witnesses thank you uh should we do both at once everyone can yes I think
everyone that is uh so if anybody intends to speak at either one of these cases would you stand now to be sworn in please if you think you might if you think you might and you know what if you're on
crutches don't stand up don't stand up just raise your hand just raise your hand we're g to give you a pass on this today all right do you solemnly swear and affirm that the testimony that you are about to give is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the
truth okay everybody's been sworn thank you all very much okay I believe you did the EXP parte disclosure on the variant um do we know who will be uh participating for the variant Jason Jason and Cara Stewart
and for the record mayor I believe mayor I'm so sorry chair chair mayor kind of close um I believe Mr SMY as well as Caris uh Stewart have also been um accepted as experts yes they before this
LPA Smith is here and Nancy before we go could I just clarify one thing uh we talked about this yesterday but just so the board knows oh okay I'm sorry and we have Miss Smith is here also for the car
yes yes yes um the um uh even though I can't vote on it I'm still able to discuss it and uhair she's not listening to me no I am gonna move her
too go ahead in the room Corners anyway I I I have I I get I get to say something go ahead Jane Jason chair if you'd like I can clarify that so um on your 8B form this applies to all of you
really is that you are appointed to serve on this um LPA and um although you must abstain from voting in situations you're not prohibited from otherwise participating in these matters but you do need to disclose the nature of the
conflict which your chair did um uh before making any attempt to influence the decision whether orally or in writing um and whether made it for you at your direction so thank you go ahead
Jason good morning my name is Jason SMY um good morning to LPA members to staff I'm with your planning and zoning department uh before you today is a variance request for 7205 Aero Boulevard otherwise known as the Santini Plaza uh
under today's codes uh individual units in a complex that has more than two individual units in it are limited to 16 square F feet in size the variance before you today is a request to expand that uh for each unit to allow for each
unit to have a 32qt sign and that would be in line with uh single and double use buildings under today's codes uh the applicant has uh provided uh evidence to show that the general distance from the
roadway is between about 98 to about 270 ft from a stero Boulevard uh the staff has reviewed this we we agree that the distances are approximately that um but before you today is is basically a
request to allow for each one of those individual units to have the maximum 32q foot sign uh I would like to point out that staff has put a condition of approval in there asking you to discuss a maximum square footage on signage uh
the reasoning behind that is simply because uh we wanted to make sure that if the units were further split so if they split a current unit into two units or three units whatever will be allowed by code and fire department uh that the entire fascia of the building doesn't
become one one unified sign that wraps all the way around it so that's the the reasoning for that condition of approval in there uh staff is here for any questions or concerns you may have and the applicant's representative is here as well thank you Jason um Jim
questions just a couple quick ones Jason so as your write up indicates the recommendation for a maximum you do the math of the current units comes out 600 and some approximately yes so I don't know where the 750 came from or your anticipation around that um so if you
just address that that would be good since you're limiting the average per sign anyway so the 750 was really just a round number it was to initiate discussion uh so the addition on it was to accommodate an additional four units above the 19 that we are aware of in
their current ly uh really this was meant to sort of initiate discussion if you and the LPA believe that that is not viable or would like to have a higher or lower maximum number Staff is here for the discussion looking for the clarification thank you for that and then secondly is there any distinction
between how the signs whether or not they're lighted or not our code code address that so not for the maximum square footage but any signs that would be lit would be um would be held to the same Turtle standards and normal photometric standards in the code okay
great that's all I have ch thank you Jim Don questions no questions thank you how about you Doug um I'd like to um just so we know why is this request being made I assume it's visibility yes sir that's that's how it was presented to staff is uh the
building itself being between roughly 96 and 270 foot set back is much different than the pattern of development that codes today call for and which most of the developments since 1996 when the codes went into effect have have
required so most new developments are going to be requested or or required to push up the building and therefore you would have a much clearer line of sight and it wouldn't be such a far distance uh this building was developed in approximately 1977 it is what it is it hasn't gone
through many major changes but the pattern of development was obviously different at that point and they had either required ired or recommended that the building be pushed uh much further from a stero than more modern buildings would be required to there is there
signage like for the whole Plaza like s is there like a sign on the roadway I'm not aware of a ground sign but we did make the point that the code already allows for an additional 32 squ foot ground sign uh to accommodate the uh the
complex's name and its branding uh so the the owner of the complex use that and then allow for the additional 32 foot elsewhere I just wanted to let me just add something to for Doug the other issue with Santini Plaza is how it is
redeveloping so where there used to be twice as many stores with half the square footage there are now larger stores with and go ahead Jan I think signage is really important so I think from the street that will really help
people get directed once they get off I have no other questions any questions from you Jim there is a ground sign at Lenell and Estero now is that staying because part of the letters are
missing and do you know uh I wasn't aware that that was their ground sign but if that is within the 32 square F feet and they'd like to rebuild it um or as long as it meets the health and safety for site triangles they could maintain that that 32 squ ft is an
allowance that is uh separate than the allowance for each individual unit signage like I said there is a letter missing John any questions for Jason uh I do was there any uh discussion as um
chair has pointed out they're larger units some of them now and they have multiple facades uh not just a single front was there any discussion of allowing multiple signs for some of the units uh so I believe it was sort of
mentioned off offhandedly but it wasn't brought up to me by the the contractor or by the consultant that is uh that's here today um I there is a a 90 degree or perpendicular portion of that building um under the way that the the
variance is written every unit would be allowed a maximum of 32 squ ft in signage um staff did contemplate with the with the contractor or with the consultant um for allowing the building
owner to determine how much signage each individual unit would have and so that may be still an option but uh any building that has uh a frontage on two roadways there would still have a maximum of 32 square F feet per unit
under the resolution as it's written uh similarly was there any discussion of um including a monument sign that would include a directory if you will uh they could do that but quite honestly at 32
square feet that probably wouldn't be enough to handle the approximately 20 uh units that might be in there they might be very small uh if the applicant wish to do so and and develop that absolutely if the applicant wish to have an even even larger sign that would require a
separate variance to allow for additional square footage fair enough thank you okay I don't have any questions but I appreciate your work on behalf of all the tenants of Santini Plaza Jason I really do thank you um thank you very much Cara Katie I'm sorry oh go ahead
sorry sorry Cara Stewart on behalf of shaked Properties LLC good morning Madam chair and fellow LPA members the questions that you all just asked were ones that I was going to be presenting as well so in order to
clarify on the number of units and how this new owner property owner is developing it prior to the storm we had approximately 31 units in this complex much much larger amount of of uh of uh stores and whatnot we are now at
20 um plus the ATM we plan on staying in that format the owner is a little concerned about um the aggressiveness and the possibility that some of these larger units if in time they need to reduce in size and we need to have in
another tenant therefore that additional four units that staff has proposed or the square footage 750 that gets us there we're actually and I did not have a chance to to mention it to Jason so we're actually looking for 800 square feet we're looking to split the
difference between what was there 30 units before we have 20 let's say if we need to go back to five I'm saying 800 whatever the the actual number is but that's what we were looking for to be able to reserve in the event some tenant has an issue and we need to split up that unit
and offer another space um the structure is such in the way the units are laid out um the diagram that I had submitted is a little deceiving in a way it doesn't give you the magnitude of the length of those structures and of those
units the 32 SRI but there I mean it's it's tremendous I went down there this morning um to double check myself and it it really is it's it's it's going to fit quite fine I think it'll look nice it'll probably actually enhance the the complex because it is in more uh
relationship relative to what those fases are the fases along all three buildings or four buildings whatever they are varies in height from like 2 to 4 we have some trajectories coming out um it really will probably look better
this way than having little tiny signs over those 20 units um the issue on the ground sign at this time the owner we're not asking for anything different we're just really trying to accommodate our tenants and get them a larger sign in
relationship to the other comment that was made about the units that may have two frontages so to speak um at this time that is not in this request if that tenant or those tenants choose to continue in that fashion that will have
to be addressed at a later time the owner is not looking to to correct that right now so we're trying to keep it realistic um appealing to the road as Jason had mentioned when we had done our our our distances we are we're 200 in
some areas 90 in some areas you know the code now we're building zero to 5 foot setbacks much different effect with a 32qt sign along that road versus being so far away um the uh letters missing on the ground side I'll bring that to the
owner's attention by the way yes and I think unless there's any other questions for me I'm hoping that that address the questions so the um conditions for approval you're in agreement with the three there except that number three you'd like to change from 750 to 800 if
we could yes just for that extra we're we're nothing against the tenants that are there the town is going through a rebuilding you know I mean it it there's that potential that someone needs to downsize what they've what they've done we also have I just remember to there's
an issue with um the landlord is trying to bring in larger businesses and and one of them is a hardware store they have some requirements for larger signage than what is currently allowed so that will
help us with that particular tenant as well okay other questions for Cara just one clarification maybe I heard this wrong is did I hear something during the presentation that the owner can still negotiate less square foot per unit than the 32 that we're allowing that's
between the tenant and the owner what will happen correct yeah if you're given to the tenant the 32 if the of the landlord decides that they've got a narrower unit maybe and doesn't want to give them that but the other the other issue is the 32 square foot um can be
split up amongst like if if a tenant wanted on that facade to have a SM a sign and then depending on what they're if they wanted to place another smaller one on the the back wall they can so that 32 is not necessarily just a
given so further to that there could be not interesting there could be two signs but a total of 32 square fet correct okay the code allows for that now that's nothing that we're asking for that's just the way the code is like sun Hardware I think Sun Hardware you could
go go to the back and see where door was and they were also on the front correct but Cara I don't understand this the landlord has the option of dictating the size so you all will hear from my neighbor Carrie so if if he likes Carrie more than he likes me and he says you
know I'm going to give carrye 32 square feet but in Nita you can only have 20 that's what I asked yeah I that so in other words I get there there will be some there will be some smaller spots where you know a 32t
you know might might not work and I but I would think that this this signage space belongs to the tenant or the business that that's how it should be allocated I mean that's how it's allocated every place else and then I guess the other question
would be is could they do two two 16 square foot signs on the front because they want one that says you know uh Nike or something you know they want they could okay they could so they lose a little bit of the uniformity there too right so if they're if they're all kind
of the same I that's one of the things I liked about you know instead of the little and the bigger and different you know if they were all uniform I to me that's the aesthetic that you know visible and aesthetically pleasing to maybe um clarify that a little bit and
to to give some some I don't know some comfort with it there are multiple sign permits that have been applied for right now and they're using the larger square footage that that that that that comment I just it's in the code now any any any business can do that so we're not
looking to eliminate we've not asked for that request let me put it that way so I'm just clarifying that we have not requested a deviation or a change from that section of the code okay yeah I wasn't concerned about the 32 I'm more concerned about the uniformity it is for
a a business um entity so uh business establishment I believe is the term terminology used in the code that um we're looking to stay consistent with the language in the code
is is what the language is we're we're merely asking today to be allowed to take a more than three a three and greater unit building which is unique to the island and allow those tenants to
have 32 square ft in a 2un building you're allowed 32 ft so that was the only part of the code that we were addressing today okay so so to follow up on this allocation issue just one more time so you went from 31 to 19 the
current request allows you to go to um 23 if you don't get the 800 750 so you're going up about 25 or so on the if the 800 comes that's my math on is that right Jason well I guess ask you that my math be 25 unit ex 32 correct so we seem
to me that you could represent that your int ition to allocate the full 32 since you're asking for more and potentially more units to anyone that requests it as a tenor owner wouldn't couldn't that be you're on the record that the the owners of the property his intentions are is to
maximize the signs for each unit up to a maximum 25 units because that's what your math would let you do and that way you're not discriminating against as one of the members put it this person wants that that one doesn't but you know I'm a lot more into bars than I am into women's fashion so let's get a little
bigger sign on that I think that's really that the way the code would would be interpreted I I believe anyway I can't speak for staff you have separations you have units that are established right so those units are the units that are established those are
what are represented to you today the size of the units um for that additional square footage is just if those units become less I'm not sure if I'm totally following the question use my store as an example good it's 4,000 square F feet right now but if I decided to split it
in half and either you know give back 2,000 to the landlord so he could it would stand to reason that that new 2,000 Foot Store could also have a 32 foot 32 foot sign which is your exact argument which is correct that's okay with the math I'm just trying to get to
the motivation of the relationship corre that that is what the intention is correct we have that on the record yeah I'm also just if I could just go back to the I think of the ones that front AA and
Len yeah um I I guess I don't I don't know what we're ask I I don't have an issue if they each had if they had two 32 squ foot signs one on the front one on the back right because they might have two entrances just by the nature of their unit right there's one that has actually
three sides right that that that may come forward at some later time I don't know okay right now we are not dealing with that particular scenario we're referring to okay thank you thanks any other questions for Cara I'm good thank
you J no Jane dou no man' okay thank you very much Cara okay I know Carrie's here to speak but she's a public comment on this topic um so we'll ask for public comment Carrie come on up this is my neighbor
Carrie no pressure Carrie owns Leon is right next door to me hello for those of you that don't know leanis has been there since 1977 Carrie say your name for the record oh I'm sorry Carrie Smith owner of
leanis Santini Plaza I need neighbor for the record full support of the island maintaining Aesthetics maintaining everything that we want to do here but in the big picture leanis has been there since 1977 whether we have a little tiny
sign or big sign we are going to survive but no one's been through what it is island has been through and now is the time to do some correction because we have the opportunity to do the correction so if the rest of the world is doing a certain Conformity now's the
time for us to do the certain Conformity and leaving it to the landlords and Anita 100% correct my store is the same if I decided I wanted to give a little bit back then I need to give some of my signage space back I have room of my
let's see that would be 50 feet of Frontage well that means I have to scoot over and stay within my 25t of Frontage because I'm giving back and I have to allow my neighbor that's common sense we don't have to nitpick it to
death thank you for being here Carrie thank you for all your help appreciate you anybody else like to comment on signage at Santini Plaza all right public comment is closed any further discussion or questions for staff or the um or the applicant Jason
do you have any uh objection to increasing the 750 ft to 800 square ft on section 4 I I don't have any professional concerns about that change in number just to follow up to that are there any
significant inconsistencies were created with that allocation versus others on the on uh no I I think the 800 square fet across all of the units is reasonable any other questions or comments any
other any discussion if not may I have a motion please I'll make a motion to approve the variance finding that it meets all of the findings and conclusions with three conditions attached one change on number
three from 750 ft to 800 feet second okay there's a motion is there any discussion on the motion hearing none I'll call for your vote Jane hi Jim hi John hi Doug hi hi Don
Jim hi thank you all and just a reminder that this is a unanimous decision by the eligible voting members of the LPA um and this is final agency action uh subject to a request by anyone for an
additional hearing before the Town Council that must be received by the town clerk within 10 days thank you very much thank you Carrie and thank you cara thank you okay so we'll move on to the next hearing which is what most of the
audience is here for um this is DCI 202 41372 a mobile vendor vending Food Truck Park CPD Amendment this is an ordinance of the Town Council of Fort Meers Beach Florida approving with conditions the
commercial plan development CPD Zoning for the property located at 2500 2510 and 2518 Estero Boulevard and 2543 Cottage Avenue generally identified as strap numbers 19 4624
w3012 A.1 1946242 132.000 19464 W3 01301 [Music] 1946242 a.
013a in Fort Meers Beach two allow a mobile vendor Food Truck Park with shared parking providing for other clarifications as necessary providing for conflicts of law scrier errors severability and providing for an
effective date um so we also have a request from the Pelican watch Association um for um for several people to have intervenor status so the first thing I'm going to try and do is wrap our heads around our time Factor here
okay so Ken would you stand up for a second uh I I spoke with Patrick yesterday he told me you're going to need about 20 minutes 20 to 30 minutes minutes yes okay okay so there's so and that's so I know how much time to give
the interveners um if we call qualify you so Nancy do we need to have um do we need to ask for the interveners to come forward first yes you have a couple um because of the uh we we typically don't
have interveners or affected parties uh requesting participation an opportunity to participate um so we have a couple housekeeping items that we will need to address prior to the actual beginning of the the uh presentations so the first
will be whether or not you believe that um the individuals who are requesting intervenor status actually satisfy the criteria and and are interveners um this would be individuals and they'll explain
more who have a greater interest in your decision than uh typical members of of the public for the reasons that they will um present as your chair pointed out um interveners typically are allowed
to participate in um quasi judicial hearings but they don't quite have the same uh property rights at stake as the petitioner does um because the application clearly impacts the
petitioner so for that reason they typically get a little bit less time uh to to do their uh presentation um in this particular agenda item there has been um a number of documents that have been submitted
prior to the distribution of the agenda which you received um oftentimes we do take a separate vote to allow documents into the record I think that um before we actually get into the presentation itself that the LPA should give some
direction as far as what documents you are considering um in the record and um lastly the other thing I think we need to take care of at the beginning would be there was a number of individuals who were sworn in some of
which may be experts so perhaps it would be best to go ahead and see who's going to be testifying as an expert hear individually hear their qualification and take a vote as to whether or not you consider them uh to be a expert Madam if
I clarification can you for my purposes create a distinction for me between an intervenor and an expert witness the intervenor is the uh person or entity that actually has a property
right uh that could be affected by the decision that's made the expert witness is um a professional who has expertise in a particular area that might be relevant to that I guess I missed the part about property rights I was
thinking back to the pink shell intervenor we had didn't know that gentleman had property rights with that particular property uh I didn't consider that when we were looking to intervener status so subject matter expertise matters that's why I'm asking about the the whether or not they can be an expert
witness or not versus an intervenor or can they be both but if they have to have some property connection to be an intervenor that's a distinction that matters then okay thank you thanks Jim okay so who is going to hello Mr Davies uh who is going to be testifying as a
witness as an expert and so both of these gentlemen are attorneys that is correct I believe they're prepared to discuss the intervenor issue but I think um I agree with you that perhaps going ahead and qualifying who's going to be experts
that would be satisfactory as well okay should we also do experte yes yes we'll do yes once we begin yes let's let's get these guys out of the way first okay all right so who's going to be experts just just to enter my name into the record David noos Becker and poov here
on behalf of Pelican watch um Tom and dead Danford uh and Ed French who are residents AB budding the proposed project um so I've got three experts with me uh today Max forg Mosen uh Salah
right Sal and uh and Matt Simmons so nice to see you MOS and and uh just one real quick question for clarification on with regard to time we we are are certainly um happy to yield as much time to the applicant as as we are you know
intending on on having we've we've got a number of residents here today who I think just on the three minutes a lot at of time that each of them would have would exceed the 30 minutes that um the applicant is intending to to take up we have no problem with them taking up more than that time um and I would ask that
in lie of having a a strict 30 minutes for us because our experts have worked on on so many that has nothing to do with you that only had do with the interveners got it okay great has nothing to do with you okay okay thank you I appreciate that clarification and and finally for for the interveners um
if if their time could be counted separately from our time as as your time your time isn't doesn't have a limit okay great thank you it it is but just remember less is more sure um of course certainly it's not like Christmas where more is more sorry I old Davies I
represent the applicant David represents the intervener interv that's correct so you need to come to I've got that I've got that straight I've got that straight so applicant doesn't does have a limit on time applic no listen both no come up here so you're both on the record this
is no Davies I don't know if this is on Davies onal the app thank you the only thing I was trying to do was kind of wrap our one of our one of our members has to leave at noon he's a valuable member not that everybody isn't but you know you want everybody here for
this case as was seen in the last case so we're try I'm just trying to wrap my head around yesterday what our time is going to look like in this so I made a call to say hey Patrick Ken how long are you going to need because you know Ken can be long-winded yes
and which is all right that's his prerogative but um but we H one of our people are going to leave at noon okay so that's a heads up and so that's why I was trying to get my head wrapped around time okay okay okay great not to not to
Crunch any of you but just to advise you sure all right yeah go ahead and then as far as the interveners are concerned the interveners are allowed I just really dislike interveners it sounds and they're and these are good people they are allowed more time than the general
public coming to speak which has three minutes but trying to decide how much more time I wanted to get an idea of how long the applicant would take so I could make that accordingly okay okay and and um our plan just just because we've got
I think you know these experts who have valuable information sure internally what we discussed was be prepared to maybe limit it to you know 10 minutes uh a an expert you know I think we could probably do this a lot more uh substantively and take up much more time but out of respect for for everyone's
time um we would request 10 minutes for for our each one of our experts so that they could really get into I think that's that's up to you that's up to you thank you I appreciate it yes sir you're welcome no any questions yeah I just wanted to add and thank you madam chair
that so my client and our team were happy to do whatever however you want to run this year and I want to get that out there and we would defer to the will of the majority of LPA on Expert status intervener status however you all want
to do that thank you I will preview that I've also got to because there's attorneys involved note C things for the record of course so we do object to them having some sort of special status as you mentioned you
know just like any of your hearings there's a right to participate in public comment um we are happy to limit our time 30 minutes hopefully less wasn't asking you to limit just asking you to give me an idea I don't want you to feel like I'm limiting you sure sure sure but
I I guess my point is that um just because they're asking you for this extra status doesn't mean you have to to Grant it oh we know if you want to do that that's your prerogative um but
we object to any other status other than them presenting as as regular members of the public okay well thank you for that uh thank you all right Nancy um and and also um so so kind of getting back to some of the issues the housekeep matters before we
delve into the the substance of the um the application so the first thing that is really in front of you is whether or not to afford um the individuals uh with their attorney representing them um intervener status and there should be a
little bit of debate on that and that is only intervenor status for the purposes of this administrative um review of of the application so should we call them up I I think it would appri okay so um Mr and Mrs Danford are you here I mean
obviously you're here could you guys come up I was trying to remember who you were and now I remember who you are okay so Nancy go ahead are you being represented by Council yes okay so if you would like if
we can um allow their attorney to uh present their request and uh a strange question if you're being represented by Council why do you also wish to have what why the intervener status if you have Council I if I may please um I I I
think it's important for them to express their concerns as as residents that are a little bit less than technical a little bit less than rooted in in kind of policy and the law I think there are a lot of aspects of of their experience and the impact of the item being
considered before the board that are unique and nuanced and very specific to people who live in in the neighborhood okay um and so I think the arguments that I'll make and the information that I'll be providing to you a little bit you know a little bit of of of a higher level and a little bit less personal so
that's That's the basis for it okay thank you so David could you perhaps make the presentation uh the request sure um asking for the intervening stat that's I would ask for intervenor status for um Tomy dead Danford um for um
ated French and for the Pelican watch Association Randy Bry and the reason for it and the reason for it is because of the the fact that they are you know residents who are immediately impacted um number one they they abut the the lot all of the folks
that that I've mentioned that I'm requesting intervening status for intervenor status fors directly abut this property um the comments that they need to make and I would like for them to make and they would like to make are are much more nuance and much more specific and unique um to to folks who
directly abut the property and and and are not necessarily comments that folks who maybe live in the city and care about the city deeply in in terms of its policy and its planning um would would have the ability to make and and they're not going to be impacted um by in such a
deep way so my request is rooted specifically in that Jim you have a question on this I'm good okay anybody have questions I have a question for Nancy go ahead Nancy if the intervener status is granted does the intervenor have the right to cross-examine the
petitioner directly that would be a question for the LPA to determine because you don't have um you don't specifically address that in your procedural rules um bear in mind that my comments at the onset of of these public
hearings is that fundamental fairness guides uh these proceedings now perhaps it's not a direct cross-examination however they can advise you of concerns that they have having heard the petitioner and then you
would have the ability to uh as you always do to ask questions during your deliberation and the the question though is can they have question the petitioner directly obviously they can present
their case and we can uh you know comment and question the petitioner I believe that's in your discretion if you want to having heard some of the arguments um if you want to allow that you know I had this discussion with Nancy yesterday I do not wish to allow
that I I I don't want for there to be I don't want animosity here this is a decision that we have to make plain and simple you guys have an attorney do you agree to that I I they're just they're just I don't want this back and forth do you agree with that no that was why I
asked the question my question was similar in that can could the LPA if if someone is granted intervenor status could the LPA question the intervenor because we don't typically question a public comment right you can question and we we would welcome it we would
welcome that absolutely okay so Madam chair so um you've already you've heard the request um you've heard Mr Davy's um objection to it and it would be appropriate to go ahead and defer and see if Mr Davies if you'd like to add it
anything else for the record sure thanks Nancy Davies for the applicant um I I actually don't think you can allow them to cross we're not going to yeah we're not going to and yeah again the objections noted for the record but proceed please
thank you thanks so NY then does the intervenor status if granted on the criteria which councel their Council just represented um that could easily apply to multiple multiple people in the same situation
residents neighbors Etc so is it only intervenor status when requested or if we Grant this it applies to any in similar circumstances here today no it's it's only who is making the request very on the record okay so may I have a motion to accept or deny the request for
intervenor status I make a motion oh go ahead I'll make the motion to approve intervenor status for this for these do you want to second that Jim second okay is there any discussion on
this I hearing no discussion may I hear is everyone in favor anybody oppose okay so I am going to limit the intervenor discussion to five minutes okay per party thank you per party okay uh can we treat you as a
couple and just give you five minutes or do you want 10 it's just I'm just asking yeah I'm just telling you noon he leaves F no no worries that was just a little levit thank you thank you very much
thank you very much just one one final question with with regard to the order um we submitted an order um to the to the clerk um we would ask that as as far as our opportunity speak goes we allow the experts to come in first um and then
and then that's entirely up to you okay great thank you so much I appreciate all right you're welcome you're welcome thank you all okay so now I'm going to ask for ex parte communication well we still have a couple housekeeping items um so we had the um I believe the
experts were identified by name but I don't recall hearing what their qualifications were and whether there was a vote has not been qualified even though he is qualified okay would you two gentlemen come up please would you tell you have already been qualified previously but would you
give your name for the record uh Max forgi f r GE y doing business as 4D planning LLC 236 Southeast 45th Street K okay most oh it's been years since I've seen you this gentleman helped us with our
comp plan my name is Mosen Salah that's m o s en last name Sal s a l ehi and I'm going to date myself here but I've been around yes you have I've
been here since 1990 at first working for D County do and then D County C when Fort mys Beach was still a CRA for the county before the
incorporation and I've been doing consulting since 1997 on traffic issues throughout the state helping Florida Main Street program which has very similar problems to Fort Myers Beach in terms of
congestion and traffic and uh so I've been around may I have a motion to accept um motion as a as an expert in his field I move second thank you and is there any
discussion on that motion hearing none all in favor I you're officially an expert in Fort Meers Beach thank thank you are there any other are there any other anybody else who wish to speak as an expert come on
up good morning Matt Simmons a managing partner at maxw Hendry and Simmons I have spoken at some point in front of council but it's I I don't know if we ever accepted you as a as an expert right that sounds like us your credentials so I'm a certified appraiser
licensed broker um I'm the managing partner at Maxwell hindry Simmons uh we're the oldest um and largest valuation services company in Southwest Florida um we touch everything from uh our day-to-day work is real estate
appraisal um we do a lot of work connected obviously the fous 50% rule so we been kneee in all of that um for quite some time uh what I'm here dealing with today though is um a type of service we started about I think 13 or
so years ago and it's a value impact study to specifically address the issue of potential value impacts as they relate to proposed uh changes to uh zoning or comp plan and so that's the scope of what I'm um here for today and
kind of a brief summary of my credentials thank you thank you Matt um may I have a motion to accept Mr Simmons second thank you all in favor you're official now Matt so we also I believe we have St Judith Frankle and Jason SMY and they've already been
accepted as U experts um so they have the issue now regarding the agenda uh the materials that were included in your agenda uh is there um is there a vote maybe to have them accepted into the
record yes is is there a second for that this is something we've never done before is this regarding the documents that have been submitted yes have have both sides seen the documents I believe
so Mr Davies do you want to comment on that they have been these are the documents that were provided with the agenda materials yes we've seen those documents what about that box that's we're gonna get to that I just have one comment um and this is nothing personal
Matt Matt and I been friends for a long time I do not object to him being qualified as an expert I think he actually very much is he certainly is I I just wanted to point out One technical point about your resoning criteria and how that relates to appraisals
valuations Etc so there's nothing in your code um that in the specific rezoning criteria that relates to whether a property is going to increase or decrease in value right we're all aware of
that yes I I for the record I've got got to object to any appraisal any valuation report coming in because you're not allowed to consider that because it's not in your criteria if you do allow it in I would just ask that it be accorded
the weight that your code allows which is zero so again noted for the record and we respect whatever decision you made We Got The A Team in here today this but whether the code specifically allows it or
not yeah I I I just want to clarify real quick whether code specifically allows it allot or not is not exhaustive does it mean it cannot be allowed right and and just a quick point there there's nothing in the code that says that you have to Value it at zero in fact I would
say the mere fact that you have just um voted to accept him as an expert in it of itself suggests that anything that mat submits to the record has an inherent value as as an expert but but but it this being a quasi judicial hearing sure uh we have to only
uh base our opinion on the information that's brought to us today and so but but Mr Davies raises a good issue a good point that that isn't part of the criteria it uh I don't know Nancy what do you think well that's this is the vote
that's before you if you want if you want to exclude that from your from the record um you know Mr Davies has voiced his objection um David has has said that he wants it in there and that that would be your decision as to whether or not to
put that documentation um into the record it has been given to you prior to the hearing because we received it prior to the hearing you know this issue has been raised quite a few times in other hearings it is important to some members
here um uh Dunlap you want to discuss this with n because you you you asked for this for um for for Neptune no come back up here well both of you just stand there for a minut ex and I think there's a distinction at least in my mind the members can do what they do in their own
perspective about what's allowed and what's allowable and that's a difference to me and I I always struggle with why isn't more information better context for a better decision the waiting that you've asked us to apply is completely appropriate because we're not required
to give it any weight at all but it doesn't restrict us from understanding the basis on which it's it's based the the expert that's representing it and the criteria they use to get to that point and I personally like to hear that background information I just think it gives new context and there can't be
therefore a challenge that there were things that were available to us we didn't look at consider Etc so that's my point of view if I may so certainly the context um I mean really it's a it's a relevance objection to not hearing basically not being prejudiced by stuff
that you shouldn't that or that that doesn't squarely fit within it's not in the criteria the criteria so um you know again this goes back to you know Nancy always does the nice introduction about substantial competent evidence right and and and the weight and you know your
difficult job in balancing that weight so you have you know approved him as an expert and to your point Jim you know I I think there is there can be value in in additional context whether FS the criter or not but I would I just want to
give that disclaimer that that shouldn't shouldn't sway a vote frankly it shouldn't be a material consideration or really any consideration because you got to look at that substantial competent evidence as it relates specifically to your resoning you've done a good job with your client putting that in context
and giving us the guard on got it Jane you had a question or not well I I just feel that um more information is good it doesn't um it isn't included in our findings and conclusions so it can't be what makes us find the uh the property
or the the request valued so I think in that respect and since you cannot really value something that hasn't happened yet because we have no comps against this or for this it it it is an opinion in my opinion I I I I would agree it is an
expert opinion it's an expert anything else gentlemen nothing thank you gosh thank you very much I think we were just going to discuss the other doc the yes but hold on let's go ahead and if we can um take a vote on the items that have already been provided to you in the
agenda and um I I need a second Jane made the motion we don't have a one of these I think it was John second joh you second it okay okay so a vote on accepting the documents that were included in the agenda materials into the record for this proceeding so the
motion was made to accept them by J Jane and seconded by John all in favor anybody oppos thank you motion car unanimous so um I believe that um Dave I'm sorry your last name again is moso
Moscoso that's nice Italian right yeah okay I think he has additional documents that he would like to have put into the record um however Mr Davies I need to ask if you have had the opportunity to review these if I may if I may just
clarify as to the contents because I think that'll help inform um U Mr davies's opinion on on the matter these are um physical copies by and large physical copies except for the the documents that are on top of the two packets there these are physical copies of what you were provided what we
submitted to you into the record um and so nothing that is contained in those documents is not something that has been publicly made publicly available um for Mr Davies to review the um absolutely same it's the it's the same stuff the only difference is those those Maps up
up top have been updated um there are a few letters in there that were not included by the the the deadline line of Tuesday for for inclusion but there's there's nothing else there's no documents that um we we intend to enter into the record that um Mr Davies or or
his client have not had a substantial opportunity absolutely you can have a copy of that so councelor what's your motivation for the additional well we wanted to submit physical copies in case in case anyone here had not had an opportunity to review um the the documents that have been provided to you um number one number two we wanted to
provide you with updated an updated map because we do have additional residents who are written um letters in opposition uh and wanted to include those letters as well into the record um and so because we weren't able to do that um some of those letters and the updated map by Tuesday wanted to provide you those new letters and an updated map
that kind of reflects um what uh what we intend to provide glad I slept last night okay excuse me it's any objection Mr Davies it's the same stuff same objections as before um if it's
different I mean it looks like there's a updated map like you said I mean new opposition letters I haven't seen those I'm not going to object to those because you've got the opportunity on public comment so David is there anything essential that you show us
there because I hate last minute information sure absolutely ha it I know totally the map okay map so could you please just uh I'd like does anybody object to this to us only having the map and we can eliminate the Box second okay what about the the letters that weren't
entered into the record we could have the letters also okay great thank you the map and the letters the rest of the box you keep I'm sorry for your printing no problem all just last minute stuff I totally get it I totally get it Madam chair um again just because of fairness and due process concerns um Mr
Davies could get a copy of those letters and then maybe during rebuttal he could make comments you oh yeah I'll provide you absolutely okay are you guys finished now because am thank you very much sit down David all right so um is
was there a motion to accept just the m just the map and the letters Jim I'll make that yes is there a second second thank you uh there's a motion to accept just the letters and the map all those in favor I thank you very much motion passes unanimously so Madam chair one
last item and then I think staff could probably begin could you just clarify again for the record the time uh so so the interveners will be allotted uh 5 minutes per intervenor and we have how many interveners uh we have
well we have a couple so that's 10 right there and then we have um uh we have Mr French yes that's it and that's right that's right so we have four interveners okay so it would be a total
of 20 minutes 20 minutes yes okay and the petitioner did you you hey thank you very much okay so this is xte yes I know okay but uh got you Jim
xte oh boy um I've had um obviously numerous electronic communications emails um both for and against the um substantial number against I've done a site visit
organized by the residents um spoke with several of them saw the property walk the property had subsequent conversations initiated by The Neighborhood company thank you done uh pretty much
the same neighborhood company uh visited the site uh for the last hearing uh visited the site to meet with uh the the uh the folks in Pelican watch and some of the property owners walked it and uh and again have met with the neighborhood company thank you and applicants how
about you Doug uh I uh Met Ed French and Carolyn mcone on at the property and look things over uh prior to that I also had a virtual meeting with Ken gallinger U and going over the their
description of the project very detail thank with the neighborhood company how about e Jan yes met with Carolyn mcone and another person and I did not write down his name I apologize and Mr French at Pelican watch and walked the property um also talked with
Ken um over the phone thank you Jim prior to the uh first hearing um I met with the petitioner and uh and Ken um since that time we've received uh
numerous uh emails uh both for and against the project thank you johnes uh I also met with the petitioner prior to the first meeting and had a presentation from them uh subsequent I have met with the
Pelican watch Association carollyn uh Mr French another gentleman as well and Walker the propy as well okay uh I have spoken extensively with um with uh Patrick vaness uh about the project and
I have spoken with Carolyn McAn um as kind of the uh representative of that uh neighborhood group um and uh and I did well I know historically I know about this site and this project okay so
having made these disclosures is there any member of the LPA that believes that they cannot have an open mind and evaluate the criteria based on on the documents and the testimony that they're going to hear today
anyone no and do the attorneys uh we have the attorneys for the intervenor as well as for the applicant do you have any questions regarding the EXP parte disclosures no no for the record both attorneys indicated that they don't have any
questions about our expart any objection okay or any objection uh all right so the order is going to be the staff's going to give a brief introduction uh then the applicant will make their case uh the interveners will then speak
um and uh the public um and um and then the staff will have their rebuttal and the re a rebuttal for Mr Davies I think we only accept Ms in here here here okay yes this is what was
forward to us before was it this is is he in the record right in the record the got all that y okay here we go Judith good morning uh Judith Frankle principal planner for the town of Fort Meyers Beach uh the application before
you now is a requests to amend the existing CPD under resolution 07-28-18 park with outdoor seating consumption on premises and a commercial uh shared parking lot if this request is approved the previously approved schedule of use and master concept plan
under the previous resolution would be invalidated uh just to remind you all under a separate ordinance the applicant is also requesting an expansion of that 2007 CPD boundaries to include two additional Residential Properties that action would increase the CPD boundary
area to a total of about 69 uh at our previous meeting the uh you all um voted to recommend approval of that to Town Council the applicant is requesting uh six deviations from the Land Development code um I would like you to note that
that no deviation was requested for the number of parking spaces um as mobile vendor Food Truck Park is not an identified use in the Land Development code however the applicant used uh zoning code language of three nearby Comm communities um to determine
appropriate parking numbers uh the LPA should consider the code requirements of these communities and determine appropriateness um staff also advises the LPA to consider the provided recommended conditions of approval listed in the staff report um there are listed extensive conditions which are
intended to reduce the potential for nuisance issues on the surrounding Community um also note that the applicant has made a few changes to the proposed schedule of uses and master consent plan um um since your previous meeting which they will make note of during their
presentation um these include the location and size of the permanent support structure um on the site uh from 1500 square fet to about 2500 square F feet uh location of the Comfort station uh and the southeast Landscaping buffer
uh AB budding Pelican watch um has been increased from Seven from 5T to 7 and 1/2 ft uh the conditions governing the project have also been altered in response to some of the comments made at the January LPA so the applicant is going to cover some of those changes in
their all of the changes in their presentation um at the end after you've heard from the applicant and the intervenor I will come back and go over the criteria and uh staff's recommendation okay okay do you have any questions anybody have a question for Judith thank you very much
okay Mr Davies thank you madam chair I'm back morning again everyone working ready when you are okay there we go again for the record n Davies the law firm of Davies Duke on
behalf of the applicant uh our full team is here today my client representatives are here James and Debbie hodka and also Daniel Myers Ken Gander and Laura teft are here from the neighborhood company uh there are expert
planners um we already went through experts so you've accepted them as experts Ken's going to walk you through the additional changes so I'm going to be brief and let him do that and Brandon fry is also our expert civil who you've
accepted before so um good on housekeeping um one other item the prior present from last month we'd like incorporate it into today's record as your Madam clerk usually does um we're not going to repeat that today we're
going to try to focus on what's changed since then based on your feedback based on the neighbor feedback um and my clients's discussions uh with the with the neighbors uh my discussions with the attorney for the Neighbors we've talked
a number of times um and the same on the planner side Etc um so we it is very important to my clients to try to work with the neighbors um they've made a number of reach outs and you'll hear directly from Dan about the extent of
all of that um I know that there were some disheartening comments last time about allegations of deception which we uh rebutted appropriately but um I I do want to open that we you know we want to do what's best for the town for your
Island residences um and also uh work with the neighbors where we're not going to withdraw the project because the neighbor objects um but I think you'll see that there are additional changes that help accommodate a number of their concerns um so Ken
will walk you through that um on the legal side I do want to respectfully remind everyone that we do have sign ific entitlements on the property today um things that we can do
by right without public hearings proceeding directly through your do process um the specifics of that are in the prior CPD and then there's two additional Parcels which you unanimously voted to extend the boundary for last
time but those two Parcels are zoned uh CB Commercial Boulevard and RM residential multif family um there are 23,000 so if you look at the schedule uses for the CPD 23,000 Square ft of
buildings are allowed today um and again that is a that is a commercial plan development um and you heard me say this earlier um but the the importance again of looking specifically at your resoning
criteria and analyzing or including your deliberations as you analyze whether those criteria have been met uh based on the substantial competent evidence but it's also appropriate and important contextually to compare what is allowed
by right today with what the proposal is seeking um and and that proposal is specifically narrowed by a carefully tailored Master concept plan with a lot of details and even more I conditions since last time um limiting the property
to the specifics on that plan for the family friendly Food Truck Park use and the parking lot use you heard from both Ken last time and Judith and this has not changed that our proposal today is
less intense than those by right entitlements uh one additional Point as you think about this I know that the two key words at
least that I've I've noticed in doing these hearings and I think it's very important in as you're dealing with the uh very important balance of rebuilding this island and that is public benefits um my clients willing to
provide the public restrooms um or Comfort stations and Ken will give you all the specifics about that um typically when you're hearing about public benefits right it's in exchange for proposing something that's more
intense than what the property is is entitled by right today so give me a little more density give me a little more square footage give me a few more units and I will give the town this basket this bundle of public benefits right and of course the very challenging
job with that is always is that enough and does does that make sense with respect to the Delta of by right entitlements with a proposed more intense or more dense something that would have more impact from an entitlements perspective here what we're
proposing is less than what we can do by right still we want to provide the public benefits we want to provide specifically the public restrooms which as I know you're all aware has been asked of a number of developers up here
it has been refused um but this particular client wants to do that they want to do what's best for the town and provide that very significant public benefit even though they're not asking you for more than what they can do by right today they're asking you for something different but that different
is something less intense than what's by right and with that I will turn it over to Ken I'm happy to answer questions now but anytime today we'll probably defer to Ken and I would reserve a bottle as you already know absolutely any questions for Mr Davies before Ken starts okay thank you uh C
can everybody hear in the room I I it seemed it seemed a little low to me uh did did our where's our person back there he heard you he heard me okay it just it seems if you could turn the mics up I would appreciate it
did you okay well we don't want squealing but I want everybody to hear you don't think the microphone it's hell much better hello hello hello Ken name good morning good to see
everybody uh full component of the LPA glad you're here uh for the record Ken Gander neighborhood company uh on behalf of the applicant um what we're going to do is as Mr Davies mentioned I'm going to do my best
to go through this presentation of course what we had presented before is applicable but I think there's a little bit a level of what we need to just clarify and further uh review what we've changed since our last meeting but this uh slide is what we're looking at in
terms of the subject property and it gives you the context of our property in relation to the other commercial and non-residential uh uh properties zoning districts uh adjacent to us and I think it's just a
good component to see we are incorporating a RM parcel it is 08 Acres of uh of our area but the majority of our property is adjacent to over 70 70% of it is adjacent to Commercial and
non-residential Zoning uh we all know where the property is I don't really want to go into much of the heart of the island and the Boulevard and how we're component of the mixed use in that transitional area
um again our proximity to the variety of other uses surrounding us uh existing and planned commercial we have a significant amount of residential as well uh the town hall the institutional components and our beach
accesses again our site uh wanting fur U one of the main points to clarify is we are looking at that maximum number of food and mobile vending pads to five uh we have come to the understanding that we will be limiting it to that uh we are
looking at our limiting of our hours of operation that is staying consistent uh with the outdoor entertainment we're going to have the full underground utility still our Park support structure as I'll go through here in a little bit has uh been changed a little a little
bit uh it's a little bit bigger as Judith mentioned our public Comfort station we have chosen to do uh a separate structure for that an accessory structure uh complimenting the estera
boulevard uh with outdoor seating and ensuring that we have the proper pedestrian and vehicular access and of course storm water I wanted to provide this slide that gives you an understanding of we've gone through
uh submitting to the town four different variations that doesn't include what we have done internally so we've been trying to listen we've been doing amendments to our plan back in May of 2024 we had six mobile vending pads we
had a portable restroom uh facility we had a storage container and we know that all changed we know that the town been evolving since then of what's appropriate and what we can do we reduce then the uh number of mobile pads to
five in the second plan on in July um uh replaced one of those with a structure for the beverage Service uh it was going to be a simple structure then the plan that you reviewed as part of the hearing last month uh we proposed more of a
permanent structure that was going to incorporate that beverage service area uh restrooms but maintaining the number of pads and relocating everything basically to that uh Corner uh you can see uh and then the majority of the rest
of the property is the parking now with the master concept plan that we have uh that you received in your packet we have altered the location of where the footprint of the primary structure would be we have relocated one of the mobile
vending pads away from the residential up to Aero Boulevard and basically widened that uh component along a stero Boulevard that's where our another outdoor seating area structure that we've added before it was potentially
going to be a shade structure or some sort of U uh less permanent uh structure so with that I want to kind of delve down into our new master concept plan again that is our uh the new footprint
for our structure uh through that we've been able to uh go up an elevation on it it is two stories uh consisting of 2500 square F feet approximately and by doing so that has enabled us and our the
client has been able to uh acquire or is going to bring online the Royal scoop within the development uh so that would be an incorporated walk up convenient U aspect of bringing that kind of iconic
uh business that was uh that we know was across the street where sanding bottoms is they're not incorporating that in so we're wanting to bring that into the uh the familyfriendly uh environment there um additionally within the structure we
have wanting to allocate area specifically for the music venue so it would be within that structure uh roofed uh and walled on a majority of the sides of it through our renderings I'll be you'll be able to see some of this uh these
components again uh what we mentioned before is we' moved one of the uh mobile vending pads up to a stero Boulevard and expanded uh that uh uh relationship to the stair Boulevard pathway additionally
we added bicycle parking down towards uh on the uh Southwest end of the project near to where the beach access is so we're spreading out the bicycle parking in that component and then as mentioned before with the building and the
footprint getting smaller that enabled us to inre increase that buffer that is along that Eastern uh property boundary uh adjacent to uh the land that's owned by Pelican watch and then the last little bit was
the uh component of our comfort station is going to be a separate accessory structure that'll be designed and architecturally complementary to the rest of the project which we want to show in our uh conceptual renderings
here this is a a slide that shows us the master concept plan overlaid on an aerial obviously this is an aerial that was prior to Hurricane y but we know that the majority of the improvements uh surrounding us are staying within those
same Footprints um what I wanted to do here is to highlight the Green Space the open space throughout our buffering uh which we believe is uh substantial and you can see uh it's maybe hard to see uh but we
are through our conditions uh requesting that we supplement our buffering within the rideway and that would be a a component of uh adding some landscaping and those things that's to address some of those concerns about people parking
uh illegally within the rights of way adjacent to our uh property so this is our updated uh renderings some of the components is from a site plan view uh what we did is we heard that uh it's good to try and
incorporate our neighboring uh buildings so the two buildings uh at the towards the top left uh those are one of those homes is under construction and has been permitted we utilize their uh plans in
our rendering so that is a accurate representation of their building and they are elevated uh the one that's more of just rectangular that is not permitted as of yet that we've been able to find in the record but we have utilized the basic
same footprint that it had before and you'll see by the basic elevation we understand uh the need to elevate based on circumstances and FEMA so you can see here versus our Master concept plan everything's flipped
so you have Aero Boulevard on the bottom Cottage Avenue on the top uh you can see the uh primary structure uh with a dark roof uh in the corner uh the then areas for the uh seating uh and then the food
trucks uh along stero Boulevard adjacent to the parking lot and then another stru our other two structures is the outdoor seating adjacent to a stero Boulevard and then it's kind of hard to see but uh the Comfort station would be
I don't know how to maybe reference that this rectangular uh residential building it's just to the right of that here's from a different angle looking at uh the site this is from Aero Boulevard and
Chapel recognizing we as mentioned before we are very uh very uh a major component of this is to vegetate and create a a really an Ambiance uh of a lush environment and utilizing that open
space and those buffers uh to complement that this is a ground view looking at Chapel Street and what we're representing here is what we are a component of our conditions is utilizing a portion of the rideway uh working with the town to appropriately sign document
no parking within this area uh you can see the ballards and the rope and the chain uh component that is my experiences working in other jurisdictions that has been utilized uh to help uh defay the parking illegally
uh it is done through a lot of the side areas down in Bonita Springs so we know it's a uh effective uh way to help control that illegal parking another view from Chapel Cottage Cottage Avenue
you can see uh the accessory building which would be the Comfort station uh this is a view looking down Cottage the corner uh this view from Aero this is a view of the structure and
so what we wanted to do and we knew our aesthetic that we had before was maybe a little bit of a festive and didn't conform with the context of where we are
in that heart of the island reviewing that we really ascertained that let's look at doing a different architectural aesthetic for this project and what we did is it's synonymous to our the client's home that they're building and
we felt that that is been recognized as a very pleasing and very aesthetically uh appropriate uh home so let's bring that look to the site and in the context of where we are within the heart of the island uh you can see uh the area where
the Royal scoop or the servicing uh of the where the ice cream could be and then back in the back of the L-shaped building you have the beverage service and then then that far right corner would be the location of where the music venue or the outdoor entertainment would
be located this gives a different perspective you can see uh the areas for seating the beverage and the uh music venue this is the Comfort station where
we show the two substantial shower components uh foot washing area and it would be servicing both for public needs of those coming and going from the beach and uh providing for the appropriate uh restrooms for uh the primary use the
Food Truck Park this is uh the structure that we're proposing along a sterile Boulevard uh we want to have be able to have the folks eating and enjoying themselves and there's a substantial investment in that stero Boulevard pathway so let's engage
that with uh the structure and the elements that uh we want to have here obviously the bicycle parking and The Pedestrian connectivity um that we're actually utilizing in this slide as well they're showing that uh and that's that access
that is controlled that would those would be removable Ballers for the vehicles to come and go the Food Truck and Trailer Vehicles just another perspective looking down a sterile Boulevard uh in the Food Truck
Park sorry about that Ken can you go back to that image is the where's the sidewalk so the sidewalk see where the the bicyclist is down at the far end that's the portion of the sidewalk so that fence nothing intrudes on the sidewalk right we are within our
property yes again sorry touchy yes uh hitting on compatibility again we feel we're consistent with the mixed juice existing and envisioned for this uh part of the island uh again being the less intense
as Mr Davies identified but we're trying to utilize the same development standards that were uh applicable to the existing CPD we are and you'll see through as I walk through the conditions our buffering enhanced Landscaping as a
component of that our site design our orientation of our structures and the connection to Utility Services no generators uh except for and we to clarify that if time of need if the power goes out or something they need to
have the generator at emergency situations only um again our architectural aesthetic I think we have worked hard to bring that to this more of they uh being sensitive to our uh
residential uh neighbors and again our conditions that uh of are going to walk through here momentarily just one quick thing on the generator you indicated emergency only you talking about a portable generator then the generators are usually an incorporated component of
a lot of the food trucks and or trailers so they may have them but they will have to be required as they are operating on normal conditions nor normal circumstances reason I ask is because most of the requirements for those have
exercise once a week they got to run for 10 or 15 minutes to keep them up to speed Etc and that is as we've heard from other things in the town is not a pleasant experience for any neighbor to have okay so if you're talking about multiple generators they're going to be exercising once a week I think that has be I think we need to uh provide that as
an additional uh condition or commitment that we have to uh appropriately recognize that need and we just have to better understand the needs of those mobile vendors and whatnot to ensure that that's not a
nuisance clearly an open item yeah okay uh Transportation just to reiterate we've discussed this before we were granted a waiver we are as specifically stated and confirmed by staff we are in a less intense not increasing the
density and intensity our parking has been revised obviously because of our structure and what we are proposing in terms of you know adding the Royal scoop at square footage as a use so we are now required to provide 30
parking spaces we are providing uh 45 uh parking spaces we get one vehicle space reduction by providing just four parking spaces so what uh we have here and what
I wanted to do is as I did before I sort of highlighted what was changed uh from our prior condition so I just want to walk through what has been uh changed from the last time so
so we had before a portion of the site that was 10 ft in terms of buffer width and eight trees per 100 linear feet now with moving the structure over we're able to combine that whole thing and provide an overall and it went down to
5T so now it's all comprehensively 7 and 1/2 ft wide along that side and we have bumped up our number of trees from 8 to 10 code is five so we are uh providing a
significant number above and beyond what the code would be requiring uh item 2C I think it was just an effort and working with staff to better clarify where that buffer is it was kind of hard to understand so it's
the south and east property lines that are adjacent to these specific properties and we're providing a 10-ft wide buffer six foot high opaque fence why we clarified where applicable because that fence would Connect into our the primary structure on the site so
we didn't want to have a structure fence right next to uh that uh fence um again number three we are uh confirming that we're a maximum of five mobile vendors and increasing uh the
overall structure to 2500 Again part of that 2500 also is to ensure we have it's elevated we have office space for the Personnel working at the on the property as well as the appropriate storage uh for
materials number six we are eliminating uh the parking lot being open 24 hours that has gone away it will operate and be open consistent with uh the mobile vending Park uh mobile vending then the park
available from 7:00 A.M to 10 p.m. and we are uh understanding and agreeable that there's no camping or sleeping in your vehicles uh no matter what your condition uh on the property um again our outdoor
entertainment condition is consistent with what we had before and what we are wanting to re-emphasize is that oriented away from the surrounding Residential Properties and toward a stero Boulevard and I will not be remiss to State again
we are wanting to incorporate that out door component within our building uh that's not necessarily recognized in this condition but that is a component that we've been working on in terms of our architectural uh elements uh the Comfort station uh we
had originally mentioned it would be within the park structure but as we've noted in our revisions it would be potentially a standalone uh closer to the uh people visiting the beach and that public access to the Comfort station will be the same hours of
operation From the Mob so it won't be deviating have separate uh needs than the rest of the park uh number 11 uh deviation five is the ability to utilize that stabilized uh gravel Lime Rock Crush shell but we
are committed to looking at and encouraged to use asphalt concrete or some sort of more stabilized surface that's just something we were working on in terms of the economics and the financial aspects of that number
17 is adding that clarification or the town of Fort Meers Beach uh Lee County Emergency Management or the town saying that there's emergency then we are required to have those vacated uh responsibility then is on the owner of the property to make sure that that is
followed and vendors obviously cannot return until granted the appropriate uh uh access by Lee County Sheriff access to and from the property number 23 is only for mobile vendors only that's that uh access that I
mentioned to you on Estero Boulevard 24 just further clarifying at the time of development order the directional and restrictive signage to help manage who's coming and going down Chapel down Cottage you know this is a
no through traffic Dead End Street streets uh for our access point right out only uh those kind of uh signage to help uh people not go down into uh more of the residential
areas 25 is a little bit more of a substantial condition and this relates to what I was explaining to you before about being able to make those improvements within the ride of way and working with the town uh in terms of buffer landscape plannings the no
parking signs the infrastructure decorative posts uh will be provided to help eliminate uh to help eliminate the illegally parked Vehicles along chapel and cottage rights of way uh the Landscaping within that area will vary
in width because the road is just varies in terms of its orientation as well so we will work with a plan and get that approved by the town to ensure that what we are planting and what we are signage wise is consistent with with regulations
and obviously in terms of that your vision triangle those kind of things that were not impacting number 26 I mentioned this before at our last hearing that uh we are wanting to be more restrictive in outdoor lighting in terms of uh falling
onto adjacent Residential Properties this needed to make sure that the foot candle terminology was appropriately provided and 27 is an additional uh condition that the town ask and we understand uh this is that the site is properly
managed and maintained uh that is an intent of our client they wanting to operate a very high quality uh business and entity we don't want waste on the site we don't want uh uh those kind of
nuisances because that affects their business so we agree with that and condition again uh we are agreeable with the staff report in terms of our consistency with a comprehensive plan and our documentation that we submitted into the
record that you all have and that we went over uh last time at the hearing it's part of the record so lastly um just wanted to hit on these findings and conclusion again our property is significantly uh the
majority of it is zon for commercial uses to help Implement that Boulevard future land use we are less intense than what can be entitled and developed by right we want to work with the town this kind of provides the town the ability to
if they want to establish firm regulations no different when the exercise of the town going through the short-term rentals short-term rentals were coming along what do we do what nuisances can we uh manage and try and reduce you established regulations and
through that I think was conversations through that effort of what are short-term rentals doing in other towns and things like that so we want to provide and we are sort of that pilot project for the town and we believe we have set the bar pretty high in terms of
the conditions and requirements we want to provide a highquality investment again it's not a carnival on a vacant sand lot we really worked hard to develop a master concept plan that's appropriate and appropriately designed to help boost the local economy as it
moves forward the resiliency con concept mentioned it to you before it provides that area where things can maybe come back you can utilize this property for uh necessarily maybe food trucks it could be other emergency personnel and that property could be used for
that supporting the town's Vision at the heart of the island utilizing this familyfriendly destination um looking at um the commitment of existing vendors uh we know that there are about 19 mobile
vendors out within Fort Meers Beach and had received the proper temporary permitting and and whatnot but that potentially can start to go away and where can now where could they be located to continue their Vision uh to
maybe make it into that brick and mortar and our intent is never to take away from that opportunity for Brick and mortars and we see the success of uh the food truck uh entrepreneurs can bring into that brick and mortar and we feel it's
it's almost it's maybe my term this hybrid of now having that primary structure that has the Royal scoop in it then you have the mobile vending it's kind of this hybrid complimentary even within our property and it's through
that bringing back that iconic and beloved business we think it's going to be a benefit uh to this uh little part of the island uh again our Revis site layout we've revised and increased our buffering we' enhanced our Landscaping
uh we P our setbacks and our architectural design is now more complimentary to the residential area and readjusting where those mobile vending pads are let's bring those up to a stero Boulevard um as we mentioned before we are hoping to be be able to start
construction and be open by season well unfortunately here's another month uh but we are still diligently wanting to work with you work with our neighbors to really get a what we believe is a great project heading
forward um based on this uh again our testimony the competence substantial evidence submitted uh we respectfully request uh the lpa's recommendation of approval I know that we have uh Dan who's part of the the applicant he would
like to say a few words if he may absolutely and I hopefully I'm still within my 30 you did great thank you K questions oh sure sorry about that can can you go back to the uh slides where you're um identifying what changes or
improvements you've made since your first presentation with the little circles uh no they're written the blue ey that one no the written written one let's see keep
going keep going keep going I'm trying that one nope keep going couple more I think you the other way the other way the
conditions okay the conditions no not that one there's multiple yeah well the two points I wanted to make is one uh for Access back to the premises
it had town of for to be encouraged to look at um impervious blocks to drive on that's right I'll just point it it has no weight understood thank you and I don't know if this for you or for
Dan but one of the purposes we did what we did last meeting was to allow some communication to take place between the two parties yes um do you want to describe that or stand describe how you approach that frequency the color the tone and tender of the interactions with the neighbors sure uh so we worked
obviously to amend our plan try to our renderings took some effort to change I mean that's not an easy aspect of it but once we submitted our changes to our Master concept plan and our ideas we
then reached out to um Randy at Pelican watch he was our my main contact and he we then worked to find a time that we could all be on a zoom call uh with the intervenor party the opposition uh well
that was before we knew that that was a formally but we just wanted to have that conversation it was we had moments of you know we just disagree and uh but we had a lot of moments of we understand where you're coming from what can we do
and uh we felt that our plan uh meets that and we are agreeable to the conditions that we have here but we're still open to more Dialogue on that if necessary so does that mean you did or you did not meet we did on Zoom okay
okay yep we did meet on a zoom call sorry okay that's I can tend to be long winded like somebody said I know I know any other questions for Ken at the moment Jane yes um one one question the the restrooms it looked like it was not
brick and mortar what is that oh well at this point in time it will be of either stick construction or a concrete block it's it's p going to be a mobile no ma'am it will be a permitted
stru sound in the ground and not meeting all building code requirements especially for uh restroom facilities okay and um the the second floor of the building yes doesn't appear to be open in any way or for Access for for the
public is that correct that's correct okay that's corre that would be used for managing the property okay um a condition I I would like to add a condition for the music to be firm inside the building and not just
located wherever because that does Pro protect sound and things like that so I would like that to be a condition and um is the Royal scop was that put in also to the hardware store
that's love love okay say thank you and um not that I go to get ice cream but yeah okay and in the case that the the mobile vendors need to be moved is there any
structure in the way of them accessing out easily our design ensures that that area can be cleared out and those Vehicles Andro trailers can be uh properly
maneuvered out okay and the the building is now a bit of buffer for the uh the pool and the uh residents behind but there will be a
high uh Landscaping barrier correct that's correct okay okay that's uh that's it for right now for me anybody else questions for Ken for the moment okay thank you very much
can I absolutely thank you very much thank you Ken nice to see you again Dan good morning Dan Myers for the record the applicant um and Jane real quick to address what you said yes the music is going to be contained within the building so you don't have a problem
having that be a condition no we already I think we already had that in there if well it says that it would you know it doesn't say confine to okay so yeah we our vision is that on top of that is protecting our equipment that all the equipment will be Undercover um with the
music you know three walled with a roof okay um on top of that there will be no uh music allowed for the mobile vending they cannot produce their own music their own sound all the music will be controlled through our facility very good um and so piggy back it's we're not
going to have music all the time but with with with what we're giving we're trying to limit our conditions of we know what we're allowed to do so we're kind of doing that um so I'm not attorney I'm not I'm just a small business owner so here we go public
speaking refreshing my my speech classro from 30 years ago um but my name is Dan Myers um I would be the general manager for this potential business um I appreciate you taking some time to hear me out today it won't take long I'd like to focus on three key points um that
that I'd like to address um first I want to give a sense of how we've interacted with our neighbors on this property over the years um My Hope Is that our actions show a track record of how we run our business and reflect on the character and integrity of which will operate this business in 2016 we purchased 2500 stero
Boulevard uh in 2017 after receiving necessary permits we invested over $30,000 in landscaping and a uh um a Ballard and rope system around the property uh to more or less just to make it visually appeeling just to make it a pretty lot it was a sand lot we had no
intention for building at that point but we just wanted to we bought it let's least make it look nice it also deterred illegal parking um DET the illegal parking and kind of the nuisances that were happening uh my brother-in-laws Jamie and I dug those
holes planted those trees I got I got sucked in coming down vacation for 3 morning and we were trying to beat the heat so we were up early doing those holes uh later that year in 2017 we were asked to give up 5T of Frontage along a stero for the rebuilding of stero when
they're redoing everything um we lost 200 feet of of of Street Frontage 5T depth which about 1,000 ft of land and that's about $190,000 in today's valuation um but we agreed without
hesitation fast forward to 2023 um the whitee heads the neighbors directly behind us with the old schoolhouse directly behind 258 stero Boulevard uh they approached us for a reduced setback uh to reduce it from 10 ft to 5T so that they could build the home that they wanted to build without hesitation we
agreed um in July of 2023 Beach shock radio story on this project when it first time came online and we approached the town um While most of the comments the majority of them were positive I understand it's not you know located close proximity to the neighbors uh one
concerned neighbor Mrs Danford uh did did raise in the comment section she had concern so I I took I took the initial approach to find her email reach out to her and tell her about our uh our project and kind of lay it down in detail um over the next year the
danfords and I did keep an open line of Comm communication uh we exchang updates on each other's progress through pering and what we were doing on December 20th of 2024 about 8 weeks ago I was contacted Again by the danfords and asking if they could use a portion of our lot to help ease the the
construction congestion that they're experiencing which is which is going to be everywhere I think for the first evil future uh but we said not a problem at all um you were two weeks later receiving some legal letters um I didn't call them up and say stop it you know that they need this it's do it use it
and still do this day I'm okay with them using a lot um we do need to work together into the island kind of build back better um after Hurricane in we worked with the town at
2500 and assisted or allowed the town uh the use of the lot for cleanup effort uh once the town was done using the lot uh within three months we had cleaned it up we graded it and we had added the sand back to it so we kind of restored it to at least something
presentable until Milton and other things came through and washed off that progress um in my opinion until recently we always had very positive interactions with our neighbors I'm sorry that we're kind of coming to this legal issue but
I'm a very non-confrontational person I've always operated my businesses with my customer satisfaction coming first I always tell a new business owner if you do what you say you're going to do you will be successful if you commit to a Time be there if you commit to a price honor that price you may take a
loss but you will learn true gaining relationship will pay off more than gaining a quick sale that just shows over time and I think we have seven years owning this property where we've tried we've at least tried may we not agreed but we've tried now your character is what you do and no one's watching it's truly who you are we've
always loved for Myers Beach for what it was and we hope to be a part of the new fabric of for Myers Beach that's emerging the resilience of the residents in the businesses are inspiring many cities experience this Devastation don't re so however difficult this process is and I commend you all for what you do I'm on one
project I can't imagine the burden and the stress and the level that you feel daily so thank you for your Civil Service um but I'm happy that people are at least trying to build back that that's inspiring last two paragraphs I promise uh the second point I want to
cover is our evolution of this concept and how we arve at the plan today I first put pended paper on this project in March of 2023 it was 6 months after the storm there was Rubble but it was more organized piles of rubble at that point scattered around the entire town
was kind of in an unknown midst of what's Happening uh food trucks did become the Saving Grace for food service on the island as we were rebuilding I also knew that food trucks would soon face a challenge competing with Land Development and reconstruction and my thought at that time this was 6 months post storm it wasn't with FEMA
regulation and what's going to be allowed it was was with my vision for doing this project back then or trying to Envision it was you're not going to be able to serve a cheeseburger we're going to build a four-story build I kind of s I wanted I saw that happening not with the all the other stuff happening with you know the female we're going on
right now but the growing trend of food trip Parks I want to create a space for businesses that came to the town's Aid during Fort Meers Beach Darkest Hour by 2023 we had our first by May of 2023 we had our first rendering and by July of 2023 we had reached out to the T
to explore the possibility of moving forward with this project over the next 18 months we created work a or we worked to create a CPD that takes thousands of hours and thousands of dollars just to be able to have the privilege to stand up here and present what we've done
um I I know it's being called a food truck Park and I I want to put more of an emphasis on the fact that the Food Truck Park is only going to be about 20% of our return I again it's the main component the focus but the project has the whole is the business um so with the
new structure which we really listen to what is this going to be 10 years how will this fit into the new Fort Myers Beach a decade from now the structure gives us options it gives us more of a potential for the future and the fact that the food while it is being called The Food Truck Park um that is not
they're are clients of the business that's not necessarily the business itself um so so I just want to make an emphasis a point on that that I think that should carry some weight um but I can Ramble On I'm going to stop right now anybody have any
questions oh Dan you're charming thank you so much you're welcome any questions no thank you very much wait wait wait wait Mr H would like to say absolutely thank you I'd like to tell Jamie that I love
the addition of the navy blue on your house looks fabulous good morning James for the record I'm James hutka and uh I have been swor so I just have a couple of statements to make and and uh I don't know this has been a frustrating
experience and uh for everybody will you pull that microphone down a little bit for there you go yeah uh basically this is a family food truck Park is what we're asking for and I said at that address at 2518 for over 10 years and just watch people walk down the street I
mean just Groves of people walking back and forth and you don't see that anymore there there's nothing south of Diamond Head and there will be people walking again but we need these businesses up and down to Boulevard we do and I think the towns even acknowledge that now this
is a little bit different this is not this is out of the norm and I think that food truck parts are becoming more popular I know there's nothing in your ordinance to allow that and I think you're you're dealing with a company that's going to put the people in the
town first so we're willing to float with whatever needs to happen to get this done but I do think it's necessary I think that uh this is a very important you know very very important project uh I think what's Happening Here is a lot of fear the fear of what's
going to happen or what it's going to be and I bought this lot because I didn't want noise and I didn't want the beep beep beep from mystero and so I truly understand what the neighbors don't want and we're going to try and mitigate that as best we can I also know that living
on the beach that you you're going to have people walking through your yards like it or not uh we have had people use our showers we're trying to mitigate that we're building a building that blocks the last two houses where they can't go that way we're trying to create a landscape buffer that forces people to
the beach access uh in the B it's necessary to have people use the beach and this is an enhanced beach access I think that there there's nothing like that on Fort wi's Beach and I think that we're giving a lot more than we need to but it's what I would want if I lived there or if I visited there and that's
where we're going uh mistruth uh I think it's 90 or 80 or 90% zone for business and I don't know zoning laws but it has a CPD and it has a uh I don't
know the 2518 has a business zoning and just that little residential property that we're only going to put a few cars on so it's not like we're asking to change a big residential lot to commercial we're asking to include one of the residential lots in this project
uh you know more traffic on a stero and I don't see that I see the people coming back to walking I see people parking there all day and using the facilities I think it's less traffic it'll create because right now that there's no place to walk to uh we need that and also I I
see that once again these food trucks that are on these these vacant sand lots once they start to build they'll get thrown off and there's no place for these businesses to go and I'm hoping to provide a spot for that uh out of town investors is one of the big worries you
know Empire holding Corporation well I created that years ago for my children because I was told by tax planners I needed to put things in a trust and trust is name after my wife and her middle name we are local and we will try and work with the town
to help them better Define what's legal for here but right now we put up a $5 million lot we're building a $2 million building and you know if they incorporate some of that in the new food truck thing where you can't just put a food truck on the sand lot I I understand that this has completely
changed the dynamic of what we're building and you know I hope that uh continuances have just killed us I mean I don't even know if we'll make next season and uh I'm really worried about that because that's part of our business is planed to be open next season uh the
needs for Fort Meyers uh you know obviously the restrooms the Comfort stations that showers the water bottle fill stations I know when I ride my bike it'd be nice to get a water somewhere refill my water bottle and I just thought we want to do this because I see there's a need I I
drive up and down and uh you know not so obvious needs uh well quick development I mean we need something developed on this island I I my wife and I eat out every meal and there's there's you're running out of options and uh you know we're leaving
the island so we're driving places so we can't take our bikes to where we want to go so this thing will be up and running hopefully next season and uh the rapid restoration of food services that God forbid if another disaster happens on this island we can be up and running and
uh provide food to people so I think all of these things are benefits to the community and we have listened I mean we try to listen every email we took seriously we tried to make changes to stop it we tried to block the music I don't even know if we'll need music I I
just want to have a question about music yes it's one of the biggest complaints is this live music and sound and you know if you go to Coconut Point Mall you hear music everywhere you walk but it's ambient music you hear it because
they've got their speakers they do a beautiful job of it so would you agree to having Dan just said that you're going to control the music inside that building so would you agree to no live music and you all controlling what people are hearing from that
building I don't want to speak for Dan as I said this is his project it just occurred to me now otherwise I would have asked you could put you could put Dan in that spot I don't know what we we're trying to do is put butts in the seats if you want to use that word I don't know what that's going to take if it if
I don't need music I won't have music uh ambient music nice but once again I can't answer that question well by ambient I'm saying completely controlled by by you well not even elevator but not a live not live music well it would be
through our amplification I mean that's fine they don't have to have the giant speakers and the boom boom boom but we could do it through our amplifiers yes we could I'm sure that D would agree I don't want to agree to something like that I don't know the throwing it out there because it just occurred to me and I think didn't we talk about last time a
little bit touched a guy or girl with a guitar or a keyboard is very not a band Only solo a right right so we we already I think they already agreed to that limitation on live but but on top of that we we could control that we are in charge of control we are in charge of
controlling the solo Duo act music so they don't that's part of our noise ordinance uh and all the restaurants are supposed to do that but we still know that the sound is obtrusive to anybody who is adjacent to that if they don't
like it you know so yeah I I think if that's the key factor we can find a way whether we're doing tiny speakers on tables or however however there's going to be a way to mitigate that I mean there there's systems out there there's ways out there so I'd be more than happy if that's the main focus of this then
yes we can figure out music am i GNA yeah you know a followup to that would be I think when you stated earlier you're not sure how often or when you're going to do music music if you restricted it to certain days cuz right
now it could be seven days a week but maybe if it's Weekends Only it's different than if it's every day I'm I'm not opposed to that where where it gets finicky and and Squishy there is the fact that you know Fourth of July doesn't always fall on a Friday or St
Patrick's Day well you can always add holidays yeah well there the special events we we maximize our special events to a maximum 15 and that's Incorporated songwriter speci best boat grade um Super Bowl um college championships so I think that's where we came up our 15 number for special events um more or
less tailoring to the the kind of what the town's doing um but no this is not this is not a nightly music operation so maybe we do a condition of no more than twice a week or six times a month outside of the well that would special
event that would tend to mitigate some of the noise concerns if they knew that if if the neighborhood knew that it was only occasional instead of potentially every night okay yeah
every night's not the vision um and I'm more than happy to delve into this over the next two or three weeks uh before Council to to figure that out or learn more about that thank you okay one last thing just this thing has been delayed delayed and delayed and I respectfully
ask that you either uh you know turn us down or approve us move us on get even if we tied send this on this thing is somewhere between 50 and $100,000 per monthon all right once again 00,000 per
month per in the season months and I we miss next season it's understand it's devastating so thank you for your time thank you very much okay um now uh no did you have something to follow up with nothing further Okay so
I am going to now open the um public or Jud do you have do you have anything or do you want to wait I think you were going to do the intervener yes the interveners are yeah okay okay interveners can we come up with another
name for that it sounds like troll people running around agreed to party oh okay well that sounds that sounds like they're been mad no I'm going to come up with something better okay if if I may I our preferred order to to present has
our experts hold on one second Doug are you asking for a quick break g go get some okay we're gonna we're gonna before we move we're just going to take a quick break all right thank thank you gosh is anybody else cold in here a little bit that's why I always wear
these e e e e e e e e e
e e e e e e e e e e
e e e um Madam chair Nancy um I understand that we will be losing uh one of our members yes um so at this point maybe it might be uh a good opportunity to go
ahead and and plan so that maybe we could try to facilitate getting a decision today yes um so I understand that we're gonna lose um Don at 12 and somebody else too Doug Doug has I have
something to two but I'm sending an email to change it to 4:00 so and think that you could maybe uh push it till 12:30 I could maybe push it 12:30 but I don't think it's still going to M matter well let's let's 12:30 absolutely I can
make that that that time frame we have made significant um changes to how we're going to proceed in order to make that that time accommodation work so um in terms of the order that we'd like to engage in we want to have our experts come in first just so that um the the board has the benefit of hearing those
opinions um after they each expert has um has presented we're going to have our agreed parties and that's going to be Randy um yeah that that's better uh the Randy U Bry um Tom and Deb Danford and then Ed French and then I'm just going
to come in and just provide some closing remarks and that'll be it and I think we'll and so we're not having any public comment um I think most of our watch folks have agreed to seed their time um in the interest of arriving at at a vote in the interest of of the board members okay so thank excellent so if I may then
I'll just introduce M and our first expert and then they'll follow thank you Mo Sol for the record m o h s n s a l ehhi uh as I was briefly discussing that with uh then mayor
s uh this comp that you have is really and truly labor of law a lot of dedicated people contributed to that just to maintain the quality of life for Fort Mars Beach and
uh the idea was that we're going to look at a stero Boulevard as a litmus test to judge and to evaluate and gauge really the impact of
developments small or large and realize recognition of the fact that uh if it helps a stero Boulevard and lessen the congestion on the cver boulevard it's good for the community as a whole now
for concurrency purposes esto Boulevard has been divided into four segment from Big Carlos Pass to Vorhees from Vorhees to Tropical Shores and from tropical Shores to uh
Center Street uh the segment that has been consistantly failing even waying back when when I was working for the county and for the
incorporation uh and like I was telling uh an earlier that you know the logic of you know since this is a constraint facility is stero and this particular segment from
tropical Shores to Center has been showing level of service F which is failure we should dump more and more traffic on it and this is where you know every effort should be taken to
lessen the impact of any development large or small on a stable and frankly having done development review for the city of Bon springs for a number of years close to 10 years I can tell
you that during the methodology meeting that you have with applicant in this case in my case on behalf of the city of Bon Springs you are putting everything on the table all the requirement what needs to be done to first of all put
everybody his mind at ease that the impact of this development is fully first of all fully accounted for and second of all what is employed to mitigate that now bear in mind having worked on
you know traffic issues for a number of years we've noticed in for Mars Beach particularly that you have a different environment when it comes to traffic uh normally in most
arterials you have a peak and Valley and then again in the PM another Peak and Valley in Fort Myers Beach what we have is a plateau in other words you get to a point where
the traffic is has has been saturated volume to capacity is e and even worse F but then the cascading effect keeps the traffic going so this is why you have uh
you know a stereo bouevard that is assumed that it's constrained because it reaches its full capacity and Beyond but still it just drags on I mean it just like I said cascading effect moves the
delay further and further but uh I don't know some of you may remember petol who used to run the Chamber of Commerce uh he used to run this survey every year asking folks who are visiting
Fort Mars Beach would you be coming back given the congestion that we have here then they were saying that no this is my last last time and then they were taking the same survey the following year why because it's a people's speach it's it
has this attraction a lot of people come in as part of the uh comp plan as I was discussing that briefly with uh you know former mayor s earlier this was a labor of law because
everybody really wanted to keep things in a manageable way even congestion that's a reality congestion is not something unique to Fort Myers Beach we have them all over the state all over in every major
city uh you have that issue but in here what we have is something that you know needs to be taken care of uh incrementally like you know in the comp plan we talked about this idea of Interceptor parking lots to keep folks
from you know to give them an option that you can park here and get a free trolley and go anywhere in the island and especially For Tourists whose time is more spent liberally than you know folks that you know have to make a
living during the day is something that you know makes a lot of sense and uh and we felt that uh technically this should be taken into account to give you an example being after this General comments to be more
more specific uh the operation of this proposed uh uh Food Truck Park uh for a stero access being from 11 a.m.
to 4:00 p.m. coincide with the medy part of that Plateau I was talking about and this is the impact I mean despite the fact that we have a paved median right now and that should help when it comes to turn movements to a certain extent
but without having a traffic impact study that shows full impact of this development not only on Estero but on Chapel Street and you know by extension even mango when it comes to turn movement I can tell you this as a
personal experience we were involved in this coordinated signal system for US 41 back in the 90 the idea was that whoever follows the speed limit and goes by the rules is going to be rewarded with this green
light after green light after green light but in all these years I've been here I've experiened that personally myself maybe a handful of times why because human factor is
something that throws everything out in terms of you know uh model traffic models are for rational Behavior but then when it comes to individual Behavior this is something that you know we make shortcuts we do
this we do that anything to you know make our trips shorter even if it's at the expense of others or the facility as a as a whole so you know uh my my point in the uh in my report which I trust you have
you have had a chance to look at is that there's really no issue with food truck parks in general in and of themselves but the location at this level of service F at this particular segment
from tropical Shores to C speed is what questionable I mean I'm sure further down uh segment from tropical Shores to uh Vorhees and then from vores to
pesadora from pesadora to Big caros pass the last segment is actually experiencing a level of service a which means free flow no problem there well the other two segment right now is level of service D which means it's functioning you still
have capacity and obviously the pave median has helped quite a bit well like I said when it comes to uh you know parking for example you can do all you want on Chapel
Street along the property line for the proposed development but ultimately you know anybody who can't find the parking spot there is going to go elsewhere I mean this can be the the the circle the area
of of influence where this can be anywhere from uh like I said I don't want to prophesize here but without a traffic impact study that fully takes into account all of these factors all of
them you know you don't know what you're dealing with I mean saying so doesn't make it so saying that the approved ordinance from 2007 would have had more impact without showing why do you say that show me the
numbers and you know this may be the case but nonetheless without you know something on the paper without realizing the Assumption like I was telling you before a methodology meeting is a
must between the applicant and the town staff to go over all these concerns in including specifically the concern that we all have for Aero Boulevard being the litmus test for quality of life for the
entire Island and you know this is where uh you know this was one one major area uh the other one was uh the fact that uh
uh the objectives in the complant particularly objective uh policy 7even and objectives and policies that follow most of them put a stero Boulevard on top in
terms of you know this is once again the maker or breaker and you know uh any development large or small can be that proverbial uh straw that breaks the camel's back and do we really
want to wait until we get to a point where you know traffic is so horrendous on a still Boulevard that even the right now the plateau that takes place anywhere from 10:
a.m. to 6: pm and 8 hours span this is going to ex you know expand to hours that you know we never thought that you could have a uh traffic issue at 8:00 in the morning or 9 in the morning or 7 or 8 or what have you and
these are things that uh you have to have this long range look at imp fact of all developments uh large or small I mean this issue came up with uh uh
Margaritaville uh that you know they they they said all the right things anything from you know yeah you're going to have a you know Interceptor parking lot improve on that and and help people uh have an
alternative to get to uh fort Beach but you know the the jury is still out because we've had this Misfortune of having to deal with backtack hurricanes as a matter of fact the only permanent
count station that we have in the island which is about 100 fet or so uh north of uh uh fire station uh that's where you know you you're counting on you know TR Trends
traffic Trends based on historical data but you know that permanent count station is out of operation and the only counting traffic that we do right now is probably either quarter Le or spot depending on you know whether
development the the developer wants to do it or not or if if they required to do it or not this is most importantly the you know the point here let me see if there's any questions for you does anybody have any questions
right now yes go ahead Jim um the um property owner by right could build a building and he's proposing a food truck Park does the Food Truck Park generate
any more or less traffic than what he could do by right this is exactly my point that we don't know because the study wasn't done to show the full impact of this development not only on
the I mean this is where the methodology meeting with staff comes in that you sit around the table and put all the RS on the table that you know this is what's required of you you have to do a traffic impact and then area of influence for
this development is a mile around the development or what have you and then on that basis you can see whether you need a storage Lane for turn movements whether what's on the stero Boulevard the pavement is sufficient because
queuing study is you know when you see how traffic backs up and without uh you know doing some sort of simulation of sorts anything that studies the once again the full impact of this
development all the T movements all the possible turn movements and how the immediate block or the blocks on either side which is inevitably going to experience spillover you know this is where you're going to
have to really think outside the box and start thinking that you know what can we do to mitigate or minimize this like I said frankly if it was up to me I would have found this application insufficient for review
and once it has a decent TI that looks at all the implications of this development on all the roadway system starting with a stero and even like I said not only Chapel but even as
far uh North as as mango and see what can be done to mitigate the impact on all these roads and traffic and when it comes to parking I know a thing or two about parking I know that when you're looking for a
parking if you couldn't find it in point a you go to point B if not in point B you go to point C and you know this is where like I said you can do all you want to Chapel Street or around the perimeter of the proposed development to
stop people from parking there but that doesn't stop them from parking on you know Pelican of course of course okay hold on Jim your question so two of them so is your testimony today we don't know
exactly I don't that's good and then secondly um So based on your experience if they proposed a parking lot for the entire property just not two-thirds of it um would you have the same concerns about aggregation and concentration of traffic
getting in out of the parking lot like I said I still like to see because I don't want to but you've got experience I'm trying to kind of go where Jim was going what is the draw and what's the concern the draw if the draw is the food trucks are causing
additional parking are additional challenges or if it was a parking lot would be the same thing there's have to be food trucks there I'm just trying to discern where the concern is um about the development itself whether it's nothing there or not there or doesn't matter and we don't know Jim I believe
his concern is that there's not a traffic study period the concern is that there's not a traffic study and David may I ask you is that the reason that you have motion here to say we need a traffic study for this absolutely because we got to the in in a in a in a in a in the interest of time go you've
made that point Mo so I'm I'm going to say thank you very much and let's get our next expert up here yes thank you you did a good job all right so we needed a traffic study has a question yes when the C when a CPD is initially issued there's a traffic study
correct not necessarily no there should be okay um so I we don't know if the CPD that was initially granted had a traffic study or not for the building and parking lot that was there one that didn't work it would be one that would be in the files and I don't know if you
all found one I didn't want to cut him off but I just he's here to testify there's no traffic study we got it yeah we got it y uh did staff yes yes was there a traffic study
with the CPD originally or no okay okay Matt wonderful again Matt Simmons for the record um I Heard uh the sage advice earlier that less is more and so in the interest of time thank you Matt yes I'm uh also going to try to be brief uh
cover the important elements of what we did again I mentioned previously value impact study is what we did here it's leveraging what we do as appraisers Brokers um Valu valuation experts on an individual property level on a day-to-day basis making say adjustments
in a sales comparison process for a better view or a worse view or a better location or a worse location as measured by how the market prices each of those properties so it's just taking that skill and applying it to a specific set
of circumstances to try to isolate okay what can reasonably be anticipated as it relates to impacts associated with this just isolated use so in in brief my professional opinion is that the approval of this project
will have a negative uh influence on the surrounding Residential Properties that are close by um I think what that comes down to when we're talking about Pelican watch I I formed a
specific opinion as it relates an aggregate to that building and it's roughly 8 to 10% is the reasonable anticipation of value diminution that would be applicable across they've got 48 units there obviously the units that
are most influenced would have a heavier price influence the ones that are further furthest away you know would be on the low side so that's in aggregate the eigh stack of that building is the stack that has the uh worst exposure as
it relates to the proposed project so that's the specific stack within the building where I would expect to see um the most value influence the directly adjacent single family I believe the value influence is
likely to be in excess of 10% though and I I don't want to oversell what what can be done with the data when looking at this specific situation so um I'll say that you could justify I think from the
analysis we did diminution in value on the low side for single family 10 to the high side up to potentially as much as 30% again not all single family properties uh 2563 Cottage is already under
construction um it is directly ajacent um it you know just about go ahead and grab a drink from your backyard literally that close uh that building is already on the second floor of construction um that's going to have a significant
you know value influence as it relates to that property when when we're trying to talk about the specific uses that are concerning we're talking about noise pollution primarily
um a activity that is based on outdoor uh consumption food and beverage the food trucks sights smells in some ways I I appreciate what um the applicant has has put forward and
and I can see some of the things that um are being revealed today that they're trying to mitigate some of these things that is difficult to do with a food truck Park I understand that um I like food truck Parks as an asset I have invested in in a food truck not on or
near Fort Meers Beach but in a in a concept I get this I think it's awesome and would be great for Fort Meers Beach it is just one of the most difficult things to locate in a way that it um does not have a negative value influence
it um the other example of that is industrial industrial versus residential is oil and water and so um some of the ways that you would potentially mitigate that it it's like there's only so much you can do you've got live music um I
saw the rendering of the building today um and I know we were talking about an enclosed building but where the music is taking place at least two sides of where that was happening are open so um the enclosed part I'm not sure that you know that captures the concern as it relates
to noise um I want to briefly mention um methodology often times what we do for Value impact studies is we're grabbing individual sales data points that we're
the only variable involved is whatever we're trying to measure a single sale versus another single sale and we're you know taking it inference as it relates to the price difference we also do that same exercise in aggregate with larger data sets that collectively can answer
that question that's extremely difficult to do uh on this project simply because I I can't find an example of one I'm not saying there isn't one but I cannot find a food truck Park this directly adjacent to residential
uses um single family is obviously closest to it but the height of Pelican watch and the noise amplification that takes place um particularly for units that have direct exposure I I'm really concerned um with that aspect and so in
the absence of specific Food Truck Park examples that I can pull and look at we look at other external negative influences like noise or um other studies where we have isolated a negative externality and can kind of
impute that onto this situation the one example though where um I was able to at least leverage um a peer-reviewed study that was completed um it's in Portland Oregon it's a study completed in 2017 exceptionally well done
exceptionally detailed um what I'll say is the conclusions that I'm offering in my expert report and that I've shared with you here are entirely consistent with the results of that study I went through that study in detail because it's the only study at least that I I was able to locate that was specifically
on the residential value impact associated with food Cru Parks specifically and if you kind of overlay um the takeaways from that study again that's directly consistent with um what
I'm representing here today the only difference I'll say is that food truck Park actually didn't have a live entertainment component so it was just a food truck Park element so I think if anything what we're looking at here potentially has the ability to extend beyond that and the last thing I'll say
is that um the influence is not just as it relates to properties that are already built as has been talked about today there's vacant land that's still surrounding this obviously a result of what we all went through two and a half years ago
um and so I I I want to be clear it's not as if the the loss and value only happens once a home is built the highest impact to a value loss would actually be at the vacant land stage because let's say the property next to
2563 which is the one that's being built um I think it's 2553 let's say that that site were to go on the market and this project were approved if I were to then go build a home on that site I know what my cost factor is going to be to build okay and
I can interpret uh from sales data what I think I'll get from that considering the food Truck Park element so the only component um of the cost that I have to be able to mitigate um a negative value influence is associated with the land
component land is always the most volatile aspect in any market up or down and so I just wanted to at least mention that that we're talking a lot about improved properties but the value influences um are are Beyond just improved properties they actually are
even more dramatic as it relates to vacant residentially intended land um and so with that I'll wrap up my comments I'm happy to answer any questions questions for Mr Simmons only one quick one perhaps did any of your data points include uh
designating this as some sort of an amenity that some would want to be around I go back to um Anita's point about Coconut Point Mall they build residences above the entire place and that's an on-purpose buyer I get all that but there's evaluation with having access to and being close to so did you
include any of those in your analysis that's that's a great point there are studies that are out there that identify that Parks uh sporting venues amphitheaters have a positive value influence I would however highlight
those studies all make a point of identifying that that positive more you know broader Community sense is is outside of the immediate vicinity every study that I've seen that rightly underlines that takeaway which I agree
with entirely makes a point to say that's applicable to the community more broadly that is not what happens necessarily directly adjacent to the use did you look at any of the properties that are located down
Crescent that are affected by the margarita pool and open decks and things like that and the traffic there um with walking I I was trying to get as close to Food Truck Park as possible make a comparison is what you're saying comparison to the open pool or
noise outdoor activi so yeah two two things I would say yes from from noise and some of the other influences I think yeah there's a reasonable connection you could make food truck park again you're dealing with noise and you're dealing with smell you're dealing with out
outside consumption it's a little bit difficult potentially to capture all that but the biggest difference I would say is anybody in and around down Crescent Street you know you're in the downtown core you know where you are that's right uh to me the comp plan is crystal clear as it relates to the
vision that's cast for these distinguished areas that's I think part of the underlying concern is yeah this sounds great for um downtown but it seems to me is if that if if I were a purchaser in um the land use um
designation that we're dealing with here I would not be anticipating necessarily that kind of a use in that spot quick question uh is it your opinion that at so if if it weren't a food truck Park if it were a uh restaurant or a closed stall kind of thing like the there's one
in Bonita where it's kind of a you know think of a Mall food court for for lack of a better is that a different view than a open air food truck I mean because the food trucks are trailers right and otherwise you're under a roof is that a is that a difference in the
yeah hypothetically if it was inclosed in a restaurant yeah that I mean and and there's CPD zoning on the property any reasonable buyer would understand what's in place and would anticipate hey it's it's not as if I get open park space I certainly don't want to suggest that
there's a CPD zoning in place right that's right commercial uses to a certain extent are entirely reasonably anticipated if not just outright expected right so yeah there were restaurants there before you know exactly so to to to that point I what I
have tried to offer is specifically my opinion as it relates to the Food Truck Park component weighing qualitative factors such as that CU I couldn't age more thank you thank you very much Matt appreciate you being here thank you very uh yes sir good morning uh Max forgi member in
good standing of the American Institute of certified planners for 32 years um and if um if I'm running out of time uh and David will tap me on the shoulder I'll wrap in two minutes perfect but
I'll take a little until that time I can do that uh you uh you have my report uh you know who my clients are pelican watch Condominium Association Edwin French III and Thomas and Deborah Danford uh you
know what my qualifications are uh that you have my resume that's on the record this is a quazi Judicial uh hearing you've had a good explanation of that from your attorney the standard is strict
scrutiny uh and we don't need to go farther on that I've read and reviewed um staff reports there are two of them I I want to say with all respect to staff and to also to
the neighborhood company uh that um there are some things that staff report didn't didn't completely address uh first is the Ade the adequacy or inadequacy of the owner's existing entitlements which are the same as the
residents of Pelican watch and of Mr French and the danfords uh these neighborhood propert neighboring Property Owners contend that the applicants future land use map designations and Zoning category are are appropriate entitlements for the subject
property and should not be amended for that reason um Mr Davies in fact said that the there there is a substantial existing entitlement on this property there is uh
and one that could be quite lucrative uh second uh the uh staff report contains no analysis of the potential impacts of the change used on Neighbors
in the immediate vicinity you've received very good testimony from Matt on that matter um the uh property owner said food truck parks are becoming more popular he's
absolutely right they are and many of us have um had good experiences at them uh however uh it's also true from the
January 9th testimony uh your uh Miss Frankle said uh that there is at this time no ordinance regulating food truck parks in Fort Meyers Beach I'm going to
say that that's an important observation and that in fact there should be especially in a Community like this where residential uses and Commercial uses and recreational uses are crammed right up against each other uh the
purpose for having an uh ordinance uh regulating food truck location and operation is that you could as a community make judgments about the time
place and manner of this service and want to briefly go to the uh the comprehensive plan definition I agree with uh Mosen that uh you do have a
great tradition of planning here in Fort Meyers Beach I am actually old enough that I've went to some of those hearings um I wasn't working for anybody but I I
I came to learn how a new community does its planning and it was a a great experience but policy four uh B5 which defines
Boulevard says to obtain approval for new or expanded commercial activities which this is proposals must be sensitive to nearby residential uses complement any adjoining commercial uses
contribute to the public realm as described in this comprehensive plan and meet the Design Concepts of this plan and the Land Development code that is uh very much needed and you the neighbors I
know several of them wanted to address the the past inadequacy of the uh conversation between the applicant and uh and his
neighbors um I want to say the best opportunity to do that would be uh in the ordinance and and I'm sorry that you won't hear more from them they're far more elequent on this matter than I am
um the staff report while addressing issues of compatibility did not go to the statutory definition in uh section 63. 3164 per N9 uh which says compatibility means a
condition in which land uses or conditions can coexist in relative proximity to each other in a stable fashion over time such that no use or condition is unduly negatively impacted
directly or indirectly by another use or condition that's wordy but I'm going to strongly suggest that if you have less than one acre less than S
acres and it's necessary to impose 27 conditions on that uh 710 of an acre that maybe you're trying to do too much uh the uh staff report um relied
upon research performed by the applicants and the applicants experts to apply the ordinances of nearby communities with substantially different geogra geographies and Commercial
patterns here th this use is right next to residential that a difference that's not we have a new ordinance in Cape Coral people are really pretty happy about it
um this is a different situation um I'm just gon to ask you to wrap up please all right I propose eight
uh at I want to Second what Mosen said I want to point out the numerous references that I have made to written testimony by neighbors I wish I had time to go
through all of them uh I propose eight recommended findings in fact I will give them to to you um in condensed form Finding number one neighboring Property Owners including residents of
pelican Mr French and the danfords were not afforded sufficient procedural due process and had no opportunity to engage Council in a timely manner no or cross no that that simply isn't true but go go
if you could just keep keep going two keep going the fort Meers Beach Comprehensive plan does not provide specific guidance for the sighting of food truck Parks given the potential conflicts between outdoor food truck vendors and customers and their
residential neighbors Fort Meyers Beach should not authorize food truck parks at this or any other location until the town has had the opportunity to Avail the community and the planning Pro of the uh of the planning process to adopt
appropriate standards within the comprehensive plan and Land Development code um staff raised this matter on June 9th uh finding number three the proposed rezoning application is inconsistent
with Fort Meers Beach Comprehensive plan particularly policies 4 B1 and 4 C3 um which introduces uh incompatible as it in introduces uses incompatible with the quote small town
character of the community four proposed development fails to meet the statutory definition of compatibility as I referred to earlier number five the proposed rezoning fails to adequately address traffic safety concerns as Mo
addressed um finding six does not meet Environmental Protection standards uh finding seven procedural deficiencies um including inadequate justification for requested deviations
and insufficient Community engagement uh fail to satisfy requirements for Equitable and transp parent land use decision making and number eight uh Community opposition as expressed in documented testimony from Pelican watch
residents um highlighting significant concerns noise Aesthetics safety impacts underscoring the project incompatibility with surrounding land uses um thank you uh I have a final
thought I when it is necessary to impose 27 conditions of approval on a 710th acre property you uh you are trying to cram 10 pounds of sugar into a 5B bag
the applicant and the town have Alternatives uh as Mr Davy said there are significant entitlements thank you thank you sir David yes I just have a our agreed parties up next and then I'll
just wrap up I'm very conscious of the time I'm glad uh M Mr Mrs Danford Randy or Randy whoever it isely and so we can give time to others so just a couple of points to make Randy
Bryce eth I'm an owner and the president of the HOA at Pelican watch uh just as it we regards that we had a number of signes sign up for time all the pelicon watch other residents will seed their time uh an effort to get this done uh so the uh the couple things we heard from
the last uh LPA meeting was to try to come to this meeting fact-based and to make sure that we've tried to do proper engagement with the applicant related to the fact-based part we we heard you in the best way we as lay people can do that is to hire the experts that we have so uh otherwise we're a little bit over
our skis on a lot of this stuff as we're learning so hopefully um uh our opinions can be heard through them as we've all reviewed these and and and agree with their report s the other issue is relating to the gauging of the applicant as Ken noted uh we did have a call on
February 4th um uh as these things are they a little testy at times but I thought they were constructive and uh informative to both parties um they can agree or not to that but I I thought it was good for us to get a a handle on some of the the newest changes they were
proposing uh we we do have still opposition to this uh development uh the the public parking and the the amount of traffic that will dump into our neighborhood is an issue and the noise issue as brought up by a
couple of um members um uh LPA committee members is a is a big deal to us I was down uh walking home from La last night from from the square and went past I think it's called we eat at the beach or something like the little food truck that that's out there and I was 150 ft
away and and I could sing along to the music We Are we have a 7 and 1/2t proposed buffer to our land that is that is a big deal to us um as one of my our members told me when we were meeting on this is the last time they will ever be
able to sit at our pool and enjoy a book in peace and quiet is the day the food truck opens as the last day it's kind of a telling interesting statement uh from the compatibility to the neighborhood I think so uh with that um I do agree with
the other experts testimony that the the it it it it feels like this would be a little bit easier if we knew what the rules were before we were making decisions so I would encourage the LPA to take that into account that uh we would like to see city ordinances in place that were done without all the
deviations and conditions that are being uh done to try to fit this property in and uh and we have submitted mitigations to in both our packet and I believe that uh the uh the the legal representation for the applicant was provided those
over the weekend uh in in in written form so we have continued to try to suggest things that would make this property more amendable to us um and uh to the LPA committee and the town staff thank you for your service to
our community thank you very much Randy Mr Mrs Danford I do will try to be brief here um I'm Tom Danford 252 in 2522 Cottage Avenue I submitted my letter on February the 4th which details and supports my
position uh I want to thank the members of the LPA for allowing my presentation today as well as uh your Public Service uh for the record I agree with and endorse all of our experts uh expressed positions expressed today in their reports and I also want to
acknowledge uh for the record since Dan did that I appreciate his and Ed's allowance of our contractors to utilize their property will reciprocate again uh today is 867 days and multi-million dollars uh into our rebuilding process
without any code variances which seem to be called deviations for commercial projects we purchased in this location because it was away from the busy commercial areas and offers quiet peaceful enjoyment I believe how we are rebuilding is exactly the town's Vision
creating a home that Embraces quiet peaceful family enjoyment please Safeguard this want to touch on beach access points why did Fort Meers Beach create access points with little or no public parking such as mango and Chapel Street it was to allow Fort Meers
Beach residents who were not Ocean Front means to enjoy the beach via pedestrian access I embrace that concept is a vision rebuilding uh Fort Meers Beach to have commercial parking lots at every beach access point I do not Embrace
access point commercialization we have too many parking lots as indicated by the efforts the applicant plans to introduce significant additional transient traffic congestion to our neighborhood it is therefore the applicant's responsibility to address
congestion and contain it within their property not pushing it out to Lo local neighborhood streets such as Chapel it's backwards thinking to use the uh Chapel Street concept because that's how the previous business did it
since then Fort Meers beach has changed notably as stero has undergone major imp improvements yet still can't handle the traffic uh I would uh suggest that makes logical that the Ingress egress point should be on a stero and not jabel or
Cottage our neighborhood will suffer significant adverse impact on our property values experts have indicated up to 30% adverse impact I estimate that in excess of $75 million of property values will be adversely impacted if
approved as neighbors we should not suffer devaluation so that the applicant can have a financial gain in the staff report they say the proposed uses comply with this chapter and with the town ordinances and codes except in regards
to the deviations so essentially it's okay except where it's not it would be interesting for staff to summarize how this benefits the neighborhood or even the town as a whole in conclusion this application with 27 conditions and six deviations is
clearly inappropriate it's inconsistent in material respects with the comprehensive plan future land use and the vision of town based on these impacts to the neighborhood the immediate neighbors and Fort Meers Beach as a whole I plead for the LPA to deny this application please stop
inconsistent Redevelopment of Fort Meers Beach Here and Now uh LPA members as the stewards of the vision of how Fort Meers Beach should be rebuilt please be steadfast in your opportunity to shape the Redevelopment of Fort Meers Beach it
will be your legacy thank you thank you Mr Danford Mrs dford has been a long day already hasn't it um hi I'm Deb Danford I'm also an owner at 2520 2522 Cottage Avenue uh I
think we can all agree food trucks and parking lots are not unique here on the island uh just drive up and down a stero this proposal is basically just more of the same it looks prettier but it's more of the same it's been almost two and a half years since Ian I think it's time
we encourage more variety and unique permanent brick and mortar businesses on the island applicants State this is not a party environment but a family environment but I have yet to hear one benefit to us and our families as neighbors who would adversely be
affected by this we've heard from our experts today who have provided verifiable information and evidence to further support why this development doesn't belong in this location let me St for the record I agree and I endorse our experts position
and reports our expert real estate appraiser stated our property values will see up to a 30% in land up to a 30% reduction in land values this doesn't even take into account the devaluation after our
property is built what does this leave us and other residents we are a mere 31 ft from the property line for the applicant property line applicants propose they will plant at least two rows of vegetation as a
buffer to help mitigate the noise food smells Etc while it may look nice from the ground level our first level is 20 ft up in the air our first bedroom window is 35t in the air that's not by choice that's required uh I mean it's
first as far as the first level this would do nothing to mitigate noise uh from not just music but traffic crowds food smells uh you know permeating permeating through our neighborhood and our homes this is going to be a daily thing based on what we're hearing as far
as their hours what happens in the future uh when the applicants decide they may want to change things they may want to play live music until midnight host eight food trucks lease it out for a concert or Carnival where does that leave us as
neighbors it just leaves us with yet another fight to protect our neighborhood and our property rights this development will be nothing more than a constant burden on neighbors as detailed in my letter to the LPA regardless of signage or what others say we live here we know all the
problems we will be forced to deal with on a daily basis if this de development were allowed to in our neighborhood that's why we we're all so passionate about it uh we are developers too Tom and I are we have nothing personally against the applicants and respect their right to develop their
property but it shouldn't be at the expense of their neighbors property values and their Investments and their rights to quiet enjoyment of their property we purchased our property here because it was a quiet neighborhood that was the reason why we picked it we wanted to be away from Time Square and
we've invested a great deal to rebuild already in conclusion please deny this request please help you protect your residents rights our rights matter our investments matter thank you thank you Mr Stanford no no no you can't I'm sorry
you have to stop you cannot clap thank you uh well thank you David for pointing that out um yes got Mr French my name is Ed French I'm at 2548 and 2550 Cottage Avenue good morning Mr
frencher good afternoon M Madam share yes it is just turned so I'll make it super short and brief uh start out with though that um I certainly appreciate all the time that everybody took to come out to see the property and uh really was refreshing to know that everybody
was taking stock in the island like we do uh tough decisions a lot of moving Parts in this one uh I'm uh concerned about everything that everybody's said already uh I'm going to make it super
short and sweet say I I got uh uh my faith in you I think it uh the applicant should be able to keep it between the lines on that property uh like everybody else and thanks for the time thank you Mr
French the yes sir good afternoon um I'm going to be try to be as brief as I can I know we've got it's 12:17 and I think we've got that one second I want I want to ask one of the members a question Don your phone call is it uh is it is there is it a long one are you gone for the
rest of the day scheduled for two hours so and Madam chair housekeeping um it is it would be possible to recess and continue two hours later when U Mr suth is able to join us yes but then we have
then we have you're okay so it it might be that we reach a nice stopping point having heard from the interveners um and then take a recess until a Time certain today um what are what are your thoughts on that Jim I'll make it anymore okay I
know your thought is fine Doug what's your thought I'll make it okay uh Jame um I can reconvene whenever we want absolutely support taking the time Mr uh Mr Davies I was going to say I'm will to
wave mod so we can get to it now yes I'm I'm I'm happy we have public comments oh I know and I'm going to allow them to speak okay so uh let without without uh any verbal responses um do you
understand what we're saying that we're willing to stop um just so you have a full contingent of the LPA to come to a good well to come to a conclusion good not good that'll be in the eyes of the beholder uh are you all willing to allow
this two-hour break do you agree with that no it's a lunch break okay well it's going to be a lunch break it's I think it's in everybody's best interest for us to do this okay okay go ahead well you go ahead and finish and then we're going to stop do you think 10
minutes is enough for you to absolutely I just I just want to be clear so are we are we coming back after break yes we're going to come back after a break and so is there going to be a chance for them to rebut because if there's going to be a chance yes there is well so then in that case I would ask for the consideration of our you know we we cut
our our time super incredibly short for the the benefit I'm going to allow public comment okay and and our Agri parties cut their comments very short as well if if one of them would like to speak again I'll be glad to hear from them okay okay I appreciate it thank thank you very much so go ahead in which
case I I'll hold my I can hold my comments until after the break that's right you all want to break right now what time will we be it's 12:20 Don yeah I'm uh I'm free at 2:00 so okay wait wait what about finishing the rest of the meeting while everybody else takes a
break and then all we'll have is the end no okay no because we're in the middle of public comment we're in the middle of public hearing so we are officially going to break from 12:21 until 2: p.m. we will reconvene here at 2 p.m. this hearing is still
open so please please don't speak to any of the LPA members uh because we've already given our disclosures and um and we'll see you back here at 2:00 thank you so much I appreciate your consideration and time thank you so much and thank you to the board members who have made exceptions to the schedule for
our benefit thank you so much you know what Part: 2
it really harms us please I urge you please to vote against this thank you thank you Jan anybody else come on up you'll be next so be on deck I beat you to
it hello guys uh my name is Derek Olin I own 2553 cage Avenue I appreciate everything that you're doing to try to get this onland back to where it is and I know it's got to be very hard to do but I'd like to just put a couple of points together if I could in
objection to the Food Park the first thing I want to say is that the applicant has never contacted me whatsoever the second thing I want to say I have the most impact I am the
closest to the trash enclosure and the restrooms and not once has he contacted that being said I'd like I I'm a contractor by trade I'm a Tradesman and I've been down here for 17 years on and off
but there doesn't seem to be a clear path or process through your ordinances you don't have ordinances for food Park and then I've read your ordinances I'm going to give you one that I think is important okay he's
looking for a 10 foot buffer I read your ordinances and it's a minimum of 15 ft okay that ordinance is 10- 416 so it's telling me that the process that you have to allow something like this go on is not in
place and if you look at that ordinance it clearly states it's a 15t puffer then it goes all the way to 30 ft with with circumstances changing that being said you that's your base plan the second thing I have a
problem with is there's no specific planning going on here typically in our industry they show up with a traffic report uh they show up with usually an elevation a nice sight plan all we got here is a
rendering and it seems from what I've read they're changing this all the way around all over the place just to satisfy but they're not giving in on any of the key points another thing I have a problem with is
safety do we have laws in for I don't know do is there laws here to ensure safety the transit traffic these restrooms that they could be shooting up in or whatever they're doing that's the first one but the second one I want to
know is who's going to pay for it is the lead County Sheriff going to be paid by for Myers Beach to sit out at the gate all day to keep an eye on them or go by there at 10:00 at night I think that's a that's a huge problem that I have with this going through finally
financially listen to this I'm The Biggest Loser now I'm not going to say I'm the biggest loser in the long term because I'm the poorest guy on the Block but on the long term I think the
residents around me are going to lose an awful lot of money and I'm going to ask you guys would you spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on them lots with a food park that's going to diminish your thing and finally I want
to say this I have a set of plans in I've been dealing with this guy here for a long time by the way but I'm willing to invest 5 $600,000 of money that I really don't have and I
can't put that money in there and have it running down the road on me like I said I'm getting ready to retire and that's where I that's where I am thank you very much and I appreciate appreciate it thank you very much you're very welcome don't forget the St Patrick's Day Parade the south end of
the island you could be a mascot okay sir well come on up we're gonna do we'll do you all at once is there anybody is there anyone else other than this gentleman that wishes to speak Randy you you you've been registered and and have
you have you been sworn in okay Amy this gentleman has not been signed inable Ian I believe we we decided that 18 months we could have food trucks on Fort Meers Beach and I I thought that was quite reasonable because we need to feed the
workers and such but now we're actually looking at having food truck parks in residential areas like permanently and I just curious to know and it's the only question I have is is this a direction
the LPA wants to go instead of brick and mortar having food trucks especially in residential areas but thank you so much for all your time we really appreciate you stayed late thank you very much sir um no come on come on
up uh Jordan Hester I work uh with the c group um very short there are going to be some drone Aerials and a short video that is in the packet that Becker sent you um the most important thing I think that I took away from it while filming it was that I went from the six floor
right onto the site um and then I did a 180 right into their parking lot so their underground area and I don't know if it has been stated quite succinctly is um very accessible to literally anyone with Post-it signs so that is kind of a concern that I noticed while
we were flying but um feel free to review the video it's very good just as you wanted to take kind of an environmental look at what's in a two or three block area of this just the site it's not just the side I sort of flew it up and back down chapel and the secondary Road that's yes thank you Tred
hard to remember these off the top of my head but that's it thank you very much Jordan appreciate it thank you guys very much for extending today I know this you're very welcome you're very welcome Randy yeah thank you for giving me a couple minutes back please excuse my poor technology
skills but I wanted to Randy say your name again oh sorry okay Randy Bry at the owner and had Pelican watch so I want to play this maybe not if I took the volume control
off that was 15 from restaurant on the truck on the beach V like that that was from a sterile Boulevard all the way to their property
line with their facing out come back to the mic with their speakers facing out towards the ocean that was 150 ft in back of that and that was the sound that I recorded that was last evening at 6:30 p.m. at the lon Kai yeah there's a little food truck next to it it's called
like uh we are the beach food or something like that I I I don't know the technical name of it I haven't been there yet um because my wife doesn't like eating on the sand um she's not here so I can say that um but just a couple other final comments so I think I think that kind of d drives the point home though as I was
walking by I go wow this is what this is what our future is so I would say though um uh couple few kind of things we have we have a couple units up for sale I met with one of the prospective buyers yesterday and a real estate agent and we
have comments from two prior visitors that it's already since this development is publicized already affecting buying behavior in our building we have comments from a re from two real that the both owners said this is not
really what we're looking for we thought this would be something different so it already is having an effect on on on some of the the opportunities that our our owners have but the last thing I wanted to say is have no idea how you're going to vote I hope it's no but if you
do vote to approve I would ask that you add uh three very specific Provisions as conditions one is no live music it's a big deal to us second is if you allow ambient music which I think we came up
somebody asked about ambient music um the the National Restaurant Association standard for conversational music is 58 DB that is in the NRA guidelines 58 well below city code so please consider that
because uh I think ambient is an interesting way to go but it can't be at 75 um uh and then one other thing and I have spoken to um uh the applicants and and Ken about this on our last call is
the the Ingress and eess off off Chapel with with proper design could be a forced right hand turnout towards Estero instead of a open turn letting it go either way they want so just to keep cars from trying to figure out if they want to go left or left left or right on
Cottage if we forc them back out to the right through a proper turn Island there that would be a really helpful uh uh uh thing so that's uh the last thing I wanted to say uh and I appreciate the extra time for being able to do that
you're welcome Randy anybody else it's now or forever hold your peace Carolyn you decided against it okay all right um public hearing portion is now closed public no I'm just talking
about them I got I got my list Judith there we go somebody's notebook is here uh whose notebook is it does anybody leave a notebook up here I probably did you
probably did Randy I think it is yours okay go ahead Judith thank you okay Judith Frankle principal planner town of Fort Meers Beach um in a moment we're going to review the findings the criteria and the staff
recommendation I did want to address a coups points that was brought up during the previous uh presentations um first we have not required a traffic study at this time mainly due to the small scale of the development uh a condition could be added to require um a small scale
traffic study at the time of development order um that is what was previously required um for the uh 2007 resolution um it was never done they never received a development order for that um uh
Master concept plan at that time um we anticipate the commercial parking lot's main draw is going to be the beach and so would necessitate a slow turnover people coming in the morning staying throughout the day and then leaving in the evening um uh in considering the the
traffic study and when it should be proposed um the development order time frame makes sense because then we'll have specifics about exactly um the the circulation and the situation of the project um so there's that um I did State at the
January meeting that the town does not have specific ordinances related to mobile vendor and food truck parks that is correct however the code does allow for the commercial development um uh process um which is what we're in now
when something is not uh typically Allowed by right the applicant has the right to go through the CPD process to to address those issues so that's where we are now um additionally in the code we um there are um uh regulations
referring to the uses that are going to be present at this site so the commercial parking lot a restaurant um outdoor seating consumption on premises those are all part of the the Land Development code um I mainly Drew your attention um and the applicant Drew your
attention to the regulations laid out for Bonita Springs poral in Fort Meers um specific to the parking count not necessarily specific to the um situation and requirements for the food truck mobile vendor parks in general um it's
my um estimation that in terms of parking counts that those are appropriate uh guidelines to utilize here but obviously this is a unique site which is why we're going through the CPD process and so you should consider those things as part of this process um
additionally um the regulation for this site what we're discussing now is zoning it's not a development order it's not a development agreement so we're talking about the regulations guiding the land in general okay so which is why we don't
have um more detailed plans at this time um the ordinance if approved approved with conditions would contain within it um an exhibit laying out all of the conditions that the applicant has discussed and which I'm going to go forward and list out all of them for you
here which you have the ability to recommend any changes to that as you will but that will be part of the regulation that goes with the zoning of the site there are only six deviations for this application the other things are conditions which become the
regulations for the site so we are in a sense writing the regulations for this property um but they are specific to this um this property and not to cap Coral or for Meers Beach I just wanted to to put that on the
record um uh the deviations are allowed by the Land Development code to provide flexibility for development that's the language that's in there to allow for this flexibility it is an approved stated part of the process um the LPA
may consider the deviations individually or as a set as you um see f um um the comprehensive plan does in several places refer to small town character it doesn't specifically Define what that is
um but I would suggest and it's certainly um subjective and open to interpretation and I was not there when it was written and so I would defer to the people here who were there and can speak to that intent but I would suggest that local businesses prominently featured on the main th thoroughfare to
be a component of small town character mobile vendors food trucks are almost typically um small businesses building up their funding and clientele before growing their businesses into something larger the small businesses facing onto a stero Boulevard with outdoor seating
creates an interaction between the public realm and the private along the sidewalk and the activity in the park um the mobile vending is human scaled another term used throughout the comprehensive plan
um it is not a large building that would um separate what's happening inside from what's Happening outside um so in reviewing this and its compatibility with the comp plan that was part of my uh our consideration um we feel it is human scaled and would
allow for pedestrian orientation and when thinking about um pedestrian friendly uh you have to have places for people to walk to it can't solely be um One location of Times Square when considering neighborhood
compatibility staff considers the larger area um there are other properties and Property Owners including the town itself which um are adjacent to this property so when we're talking about compatibility that's what we're talking
about is the the area as a whole um the LPA should of course take into consideration as is one of the criteria you're going to hear in a moment the testimony of the public um and public opinion um so thinking about what you've heard here today is what has been
emailed to you is certainly appropriate um The Proposal presented here is a reduction in intensity and I wanted to Define that so we're clear about what intensity means um the the the regulation govering this site now is the existing CPD so when we're talking
about the the rules it's the the CPD that's there which did have its own deviation and set of conditions um which are separate from you know the the standard byrite um of the zoning um so development intensity is a measure of
size and height of a structure or structures so as this is a there's a very small structure present it is a reduction in intensity so I just wanted to clear that up in case anybody was concerned about how we're defining those things okay so I'm certainly available
for questions or I can continue on into talking about the deviations and the findings and the conclusions any questions for Judith at this moment no well I have one so talking about the comp plan I agree with what you're saying about size and scale
and whatnot but there was a huge element when we were talking about the comp plan which was protecting residential neighborhoods from commercial intrusion and I think that is the that is the objection that is the objection and even though there is currently even though
there is currently approved commercial uh expansion there it's enclosed and so the intrusive element of that commercial activity is limited or at least contained so do you have any comments on
that so I think that's a very valid point when reviewing this from a staff perspective and looking at the the uses um of a restaurant of these kind of like Gathering Place it is on paper
compatible now sure so what you're talking about of an enclosed space and containing the uses that's absolutely a a a a point to consider except that that's not what's being proposed here no I understand I'm
just making the comparison to there is already commercial activity approved there so that development could occur but this is different because this is not contained commercial activity this is exposed correct and this and
consequently exposing all adjacent properties and this is the first time to my knowledge that you're considering a development of this type so I think it's important to consider all of those elements and what the town's view on that is moving forward I do expect um
this to not be the only proposal of this type um and that's an important consideration for the LPA um in in the market trend for the rest restaurants that are coming back
new uh Beach Bar um and uh the beached whale all of those have open floors and many floors so had there been a re development of a restaurant I doubt that
it would have come back enclosed with the recent Trends do you agree with that I think that's hard to say no that's hard to say that's hard to say I mean I mean I think you're right about what we've seen so far but I I mean with the
tiis that are people like you know uh Sandy Bottoms is doing a tiki the tiki is doing a tiki the um you know um the be the beach bars three stories open two to the to the front and um Beach Wells
three stories open so I I can't imagine that there would be an inclosed restaurant built on all three levels that would be available to build yeah let's go on with the deviations okay if you think of
something else let me know I I just have one more question sorry so this is surrounded by you know this is all Boulevard you know Aero Boulevard is all commercial cross the Street's commercial Sandy Bottom's commercial this property's commercial moms is commercial so everything around this right is is
commercial is is that not different than those areas that we're talking about where I mean we've heard from other uh residents behind those restaurants that are being built that were mentioned and and others with similar concerns right the music's loud it was loud before Ian
it's still loud kind of thing is that Is this different in your eyes as staff because it is it different in some way I guess because there's a Condo building or because there's a residential street yeah there's residential street behind it
versus you know you know I guess if you bought behind the whale the well was there you knew it was there you knew there be you know what I mean kind of thing where there was nothing here I might have came to there was a restaurant I think there whales a downtown district exactly right but years and years ago right like
I don't even I mean Mucky Duck was the last thing there which was like 1999 25 years ago so the current CPD doesn't include that the schedule USIS doesn't include a restaurant okay um but the underlying zoning is CB zoning you
could have a restaurant the one parcel that's being that potentially is being added into the CPD that's on Sero is CV zoning and that's what's around it okay so um this is adjacent or you know
directly AB budding a residential neighborhood and I think if this was a a large restaurant with multiple floors and outdoor decks and things like that um it would have a much larger larger impact in terms of sound um sound
is is difficult I mean it just is you know it it travels there can be wind and then it doesn't travel and they turn up the sound and it's it's a hard thing to um to regulate um what we've attempted to do is in the
conditions try to mitigate that as much as possible and if you have suggestions to further um and I would also the the applicant did provide some of their own suggestions for mitigation as well um and that could
be you know more thoroughly walked one more little tiny question sorry if the applicant wanted to could they build a three a ground level plus three floors parking garage in that space as long as they met the setbacks and with the the
current CPD no no okay okay because the current CPD is limited to the of uses that are in that c that's okay thank you okay okay so back to the deviations um
the applicant request the following Dev deviations consistent with Land Development code section 34- 2123 and 34- 932b uh deviation one is from LDC section 10- 285 that requires driveways
to be located at least 2 F feet from the center line of a local Street such as Chapel Street to allow a distance of a 100 feet from a stero Boulevard uh the African is unable to meet the 250t separation distance um this uh deviation
was approved under the previous um CPD and they're asking to continue to for this deviation to remain um the property is not 250 ft in depths they would not based on the size be able to meet that requirement deviation two seeks relief
from Land Development code section 10- 285 that requires again driveways to be located 250 ft from the center line with intersection of Estero and Chapel um and the driveway to Pelican watch um this deviation allows the existing driveway
there's an existing curve cut on sto Boulevard to remain approximately 210 ft um from the chapel Estero intersection and 150 ft from the existing driveway this is the um entrance from the stereo that you saw that would be limited solely to the food trucks and trailers
not to any other delivery or service uh Vehicles deviation three seeks relief from Land Development code section 34- 706d which states that existing driveway and parking spaces shall be relocated from Mya Boulevard to allow for the existing access point to remain from Mya
Boulevard onto the property that goes with what we just discussed um deviation four seeks relief and Land Development code 34- 706a which requires that off street parking lots be placed inside or rear yards this deviation will allow the parking lot to be located along Chapel
Street between a stero and cottage deviation five seeks relief from Land Development to section 34-27 which requires High Turner vot parking loots to have a paved surface to allow for a crush shell or lime rock surface um further uh conditions for
this deviation are in the conditions um and we can address Bowen's comment about the the crush shell we get there deviation six seeks relief from Land Development code 10-46 D2 table 108 which requires a 15t
wide type debuffer when the proposed parking and vehicle use area AB buts a right of way or Road easement to allow for a minimum 10 foot five buffer okay so findings and conclusion Land
Development code section 34- 85 B and C and 34- 2162 sets forth the required considerations and findings for the approval of a resoning 34- 85b considerations in
reaching this decision the Town Council shall consider the following whenever applicable one whether there exists an error or ambiguity which must be corrected um no errors or ambiguities exist two whether there exist change or changing conditions which make approval
of the request appropriate um the site was vacant prior to Hurricane Ian and the Redevelopment of the site makes the request appropriate mobile vendors food truck parks are growing in popularity and this use is not directly addressed in the Land Development code which makes the CPD process appropriate to resolve
any potential conflicts of this new use three the impact of a proposed change on the intent of the chapter no impact on the intent of the chapter will occur although the LPA may desire to consider additional Reg ation to govern this use in the future for the testimony of any
applicant which you've heard uh the recommendation of staff and the LPA which we'll give in a moment uh the testimony of the public uh whether the request is consistent with the goals objectives policies intent and with the densities intensities and General Uses
as set forth in the fort Meers Beach Comprehensive plan um there's more in the staff report in general the staff finds it to be compatible with the densities intensities and General Uses set forth in the comp plan along with the goals objectives and
policies eight whether the request meets or exceeds all performance and locational standards set forth for the proposed use the proposed development will be required to meet performance standards set forth in 34-20 31 and 34-20 32 nine whether Urban
services are or will be available and adequate to serve a proposed land use change uh the urban Services exist in this location whether the request will protect conserve or preserve environmentally critical areas and natural resources uh the request will have no impact on designated
environmentally critical areas and natural resources whether the request will be compatible with existing or planned uses and not cause damage Hazard nuisance or other detriment to persons or property staff finds the requests compatible with the surrounding land
uses the potential for nuis is minimized through providing buffers as well as several staff recommended conditions for approval the suggested conditions include Limited hours of operation to reduce the potential for noise nuisance to surrounding properties whether the location of the request places an undue
burden upon existing Transportation or other services and facilities and will be served by streets with the capacity to carry traffic generated by the development the current request is less intense in the previously approved Master concept plan and should not place an undue burden on Transportation
Services um Land Development code section 34- 85c findings before granting any resoning the Town Council shall find the requested zoning district complies with one the fort Meers Beach Comprehensive
plan um staff finds the proposed uses and requested deviations for the CPD comply with the comprehensive plan uh this chapter the proposed uses comply with this chapter except in regards to the deviations three any any
other applicable Town ordinances or codes the proposed request complies with the town ordinances and codes except in regards to the deviations um Land Development code section 34- 216 B2 the recommendation made to the Town
Council must be supported by the guidelines set forth in 3485 of this chapter in addition the findings must address whether the following criteria can be satisfied a the proposed mix of uses is appropiate the subject location the proposed mix of uses is appropriate in
this location as it is in the boulevard future land use the expanded boundary and area addressed under separate ordinance additions to the schedule of uses and the master concept plan are appropriate the mobile vendor Food Truck Park concept with commercial parking
area is not directly anticipated in the comprehensive plan or Land Development code but is not in conflict with either regulation sufficient safeguards to the public interest are provided by the recomend special conditions to the concept plan or by other applicable
regulations sufficient safeguards are provided to the public interest through required buffering at the property boundaries additionally staff has suggested several conditions to further Safeguard the public all recommended special conditions are reasonably related to the impact of the Public's interest created
by or expected from the proposed development all conditions uh are related to the impacts on the public interest the proposed use meets all specific requirements of the comprehensive plan that are relevant to the requested plan development such as the
following policies 4 B4 and 4 C3 on Commercial uses in the mixed residential category policies 4 B5 and 4 C3 on commercial rezonings in the boulevard category policy 4c4 on building Heights
taller than the standard height limit policy 4 C8 on density trans policy 4 E1 on pred disaster build back policy 7 J2 on traffic impact analysis and potential design improvements that could offset traffic
impacts findings for deviation request section 34- 2164 all deviations must be approved approved with modifications or rejected based on a finding that a each item enhances the achievement of the objectives of the plan development
the dev the requested deviations are related to an efficient functioning of the master concept Plan B the general intent of the chapter to protect the public health safety and Welfare will be preserved and promoted the proposed deviations preserve Public Health each
deviation operates to the benefit or at least not to the detriment of the public interest the deviations are not in a detriment to the public interest additional conditions are recommended uh for the master concept plan each deviation is consist with the fort Meers Beach Comprehensive plan staff finds
that the deviations are consistent with the comprehensive plan okay recommendation staff finds of the CPD with deviations meets the criteria set forth in section 34- 85b and c and 34- 2162 of the Land
Development code if the LPA finds that the applicant proposed parking calculations based on other local regulations is appropriate and the recommended conditions are sufficient to reduce nuisance concerns staff recommends approval with conditions of
this application now I'm going to go through the recommended conditions I have four notes of potential changes to these conditions so as we get to them if we want to make alterations um let me
know okay one the development of option A as approved and conditioned in resolution 0728 will no longer be valid upon approval two at the time of development order the applicant must provide the following
buffers a along Chapel Street the West property line a 10-ft wide buffer with a minimum of four trees per 100 linear feet which is six trees and a three foot high hedge planted in a double staggered row b along the east property line that
extends from a stero Boulevard a minimum 7 and 1/2t wide buffer with a minimum of 10 trees per 100 linear feet and a 3T High hedge planted in a double staggered row C along the south and east property
lines adjacent to 2553 and 2563 Cottage Avenue a minimum 10ft wide buffer with six foot high opaque fence where applicable with a minimum of eight trees per 100 linear feet and a 3 foot high hedge planted in a double staggered row
planted on the outside of the fence along Cottage Street the South property line a minimum 10ft wide buffer with a with a minimum of eight trees per 100 linear feet and a three foot high hedge planted in a double staggered
row so just wanted to note that this is required at the time of the development order that these buffers be put in place before anything else three a maximum of five mobile vendor transient Merchant pads in
addition to a permanent service structure maximum of 2500 square ft is permitted any additional mobile vendor pads not shown on the master concept plan shall require prior Town approval four all mobile vendors will be associated with either food or
merchandise there shall be no cannabis or smoke Vape related merchandise vendors allowed five consumption on the premises will be limited to beer and wine only six hours of operation for the mobile vendor transient merchants and
outdoor your seating error will be 7:00 a.m. to 10: p.m. 7 days a week 7even the parking lot will be available for use the same hours as the mobile vending Park 7:00 a.m. to 10 p.m. 7 days a week camping or sleeping in vehicles is
prohibited um eight is about music so I don't know whether you want to talk about that now or we can hold it to the end um I'll read you what is in the staff report now Amplified music or entertainment is pered Outdoors until 9:00 p.m. and only
within the designated entertainment areas indicated on the master concept plan outdoor Amplified music or entertainment will be restricted to only solo and Duo performers no bands three or more performers or drums percussion unless approved through the town special
event permitting process sorry just quick so you're you're recommending Amplified it can be Amplified I thought that's what's in the St that's where we ch right so if
you would like to remove um live music this would be the place to to do that nine all sound generated on site will be in compliance with the fort Meers Beach noise ordinance Article 2 chapter 14 10 a publicly accessible Comfort
station consisting of restrooms outdoor shower foot rins handwashing and water fountain will either be integrated within the proposed Park support structure or as a standalone structure on on site public access to the Comfort station will only be during the same hours of operation for the mobile
vending Park 11 uh per deviation five um and this year I'm going to based on Mr Bowen's comments suggest changing some of this language the applicant what it says is the applicant May utilize a stabilized gravel Lime Rock Crush shell
parking service in general that's going to be more pervious than an asphalt parking lot so staff doesn't have a problem um with that um however we are suggesting that we the town requires um
a grid or semi-pervious paper system which will help to stabilize that gravel and keep it from uh leaving the site so right now the language is encouraged uh I would recommend changing that to required or must 12 uh mobile vendors outdoor
seating restrooms and any storage space must be located on an approved stabilized nonp or my Pria surface 13 a temporary use permit must be obtained for any special event where additional vendors of any type and or
increased visitor numbers are expected there was a brief discussion about this earlier but this is in here so anything outside of the activities shown on the master concept plan um including but not limited to Festival political rally
holiday celebration or Carnival would require a special events uh permit 14 mobile vendors must provide evidence that all required permits inspections licensure other approvals are needed as needed um by either County state or
federal agencies prior to operating within the town um there is a town ordinance that is um I think from 99 um that does permit mobile vendors mobile food trucks to operate within the town
um the State of Florida however has preempted our ability to MIT them um but there are State requirements for permits for mobile vendors so they we will just check and make sure that they've filed all the appropriate regulations with the um state
license uh 15 liquid waste or grease must be disposed of at an approved location it may not be placed in tree pits storm drains or sanitary sewers or onto sidewalk streets or other public or private space 16 all mobile vendors shall be required to connect to Onset utilities
including Electric water and sanitary sewer generator use is only allowed when electrical service is disrupted or temporarily uh non-available due to designated disaster related events I don't know if you want to add language here about regular maintenance yeah
because returning we need some sort of assurances that they won't be using I have a lot of experience with generators and they need to be exercised every week in order to properly function at the time they need and that is a very disruptive environment during the 15 minutes they're running so we I want to
hear what the applicant has to say about addressing that before we put a final condition in there because okay the indication I got is there would be several of those um versus one master um and we just need to hear more before I know how to give you some advice on that I put an as there 17 all mobile vendors
and park facilities must comply with FEMA regulations no temporary storage containers are permitted all mobile vendors will be required to evacuate the property when evacuation orders are issued by Lee County mergency management or the town of Fort Meers Beach the removal of vendor Vehicles is the
responsibility of the property owner uh vendors may not return until authorized by the town and here I've crossed out or and put in and uh Lee County Sheriff's Office uh 18 restroom facilities must be
provided based on Max maximum occupancy of the total seating area in conformance with the Florida building code 19 all alcohol sales must be in conformance with with state regulations 20 a local development order is required prior to any development of the site in accordance with this plan
development approval and consistent with the approved Master concept plan sorry the question 18 are those facilities in addition to the compensation no it we don't know how many um the capacity of those restroom
facilities and the um Florida building code lays out how many individual people you can serve in a restroom based on your seating um at your facility it has to comply we don't sure I'm sure the rags will tell us what size it has to be but the
representation was we're doing this compensation as a benefit to the development you're indicating it's a requirement for the development yes okay so long as that's clear they're required to have restrooms they're not required to have those restrooms open to the public with these do we need to say like
permanent restrooms versus portable langu we can further stated that's what's shown on the master concept plan is a permanent permanent yeah yeah okay local development order is required prior to any development of the site in accordance with this plan development approval and consistent with
the approved Master concept plan um there we can add language or we can put it in the end about requiring um small area traffic impact study um prior to development order approval okay 21 all state and local permits
including but not limited to right of way and storm water permits must be applied for and received prior to site development 22 all signage and Landscaping must meet the vehicle visibility at intersection requirements found in section 34-
3131 23 access to and from the property for mobile vendors only via the Estero Boulevard access point will not be allowed during typical peak season traffic times which are 8m to 11:00 a.m. and 400 p.m. to 7:00 p.m. 24 at the time of local development
order approval directional and restrictive vehicle access signage EG no through traffic will be provided at the primary access and along Chapel uh Street in Cottage Avenue um I thought the suggestion of the forc Ron Chapel to be a good one and
certainly one we can review during the um traffic study 25 at the time of local development order approval on Street RightWay buffer landscape plantings no parking signage and infrastructure EG decorative post and rope chain will be
provided to help eliminate illegally parked vehicles within the Chapel Street and Cottage Avenue right of ways of budding the subject property the on Street RightWay buffer landscape area will vary in width based on the roadway configuration and consist of shrubs and
trees complimentary to the adjacent on-site Landscaping be maintained less than 6 in high for shrubs and will not violate vehicle visibility requirements 26 Outdoor Lighting in no case may the illumination exceed 0.2
foot candles measured at the property line the amount of Illumination projected onto a residentially zoned property or use from another property may not exceed zero foot candles measured at 10 ft from the property line onto the adjacent residential
property Uh current regulation allow for A5 foot candles measured at the property line and2 foot candles 10 ft from the property onto residential property so this is a further restriction 27 proper site management including site cleanliness and proper
waste removal is the responsibility of the property owner manager and any violations will be issued to the site ownership or mediation and not to individual vendors um this is helped to help the town clarify um how to enfor the
regulation um upon the management and not trying to figure out which vendor um caused the issue that's up for the the property manager to do um the minor traffic impact study can be
required for develop this is not in there this is added language um approval of this CPD does not preclude traffic mitigation requirement consistent with the Land Development code which may be identified at the time of development order so that's a suggested addition
based on today's conversation okay that's it anything else okay any questions for Judith at the moment do we want to discuss having making the changes that we want to add to it I was going to let Mr Davies rebut before we go to that but thank you um
okay Mr Davies any ruddle right Ken Gander for the record uh good to still be here um so so are we we're making progress I think but thanks again for the
opportunity so just uh I think jumping into it one thing and Judith did a fine job of making clarifications on some of these points I may just be reiterating it so bear with me um regarding the TI
and the statements made earlier um we did uh uh the T was not required as staff represented uh because of our position and what we had submitted in our submitt documents uh acknowledging
the less intensity of the development now respectfully I have to mention our research there is an approved TI that's associated with the development order for the project that was uh being implemented the CPD that was issued in
2008 So based on that we want to confirm that we are okay with a condition and our condition is that we would do a trip generation study in a comparison with that TI to acknowledge that uh based on our opinion that our project would be
less intense than that development and we would do that at time of development order so it would be a comparison of that existing T through our trip generation study um regarding the conditions and again Jud
uh made uh points that guess there's 27 and what 28 now so uh and that's an appropriate process that we're going through through the CPD process the existing CPD had many deviation or conditions some of
those were actually brought forth under this one uh in my opinion in our opinion a lot of the conditions are just uh given are the obvious that existing Master concept plan isn't applicable anymore that that we understand that or
we would have to abide by FEMA regulations of course we would have to do that that would all be but we're acknowledging that those are appropriate to be stated in here then there's those conditions that we need to have in place as we are working with staff comments
and uh aspects of coordinating with the neighbors and concerns we need to add or we need to recognize those and that's through the CPD process with the plan development process that that's appropriate um regarding the appraisal I
think was all stated at the beginning our position is is that is not appropriate under the criteria for the rezoning um you're referring to Mr Simmons testimony yes ma'am yes
um let's see uh hit on the ti see oh um obviously the music uh we are wanting to acknowledge uh Jane you
brought that up during my testimony regarding the music and we are committed to amending the condition to strictly reflect that any music Amplified we still want to maintain that but that would be within the building it would not be located outside and also
conditioning that no food truck may be uh K that's a bit of a that's a bit of a play on words because but you're committing what you want to commit to is that you have control of the volume in the building you're or are you saying that the musicians will be inside of a
building both okay so there will be the musicians entertainment will be within be contained within a building no well that's that's that's what I'm I'm just trying to ask him the question you can bring up that's don't don't bring up
anything just tell me yes or no is it going to be inside of a building it will be roofed and at least three walls okay so oriented towards the St Boulevard no different than like what we agreed on in Sandy Bottom so I don't I
don't know if you Dan or somebody else talk about this but I need brought this up so I'm going to jump on it while we're in this conversation what if we um not would if we had a criteria there was no live music at this
location as a condition of approval for everything else we're talking about what's your reaction my reaction well on behalf of the [Laughter] client yeah I would have to have a
conversation with that but as we're sitting here and as I mentioned we want the Amplified music and outdoor entertainment but we are willing to guarantee that it's oriented away from the Residential Properties and within the comines but we all know the reality of that is it's impossible it's
impossible impossible the the impact is still the same the Amplified piece is a big one right the Amplified piece is big one if you don't amplify it if you had a person or a duet with a guitar and a keyboard
that is far different than Amplified guitar and keyboard right and so and there is a distinct difference and if you put three walls around me and a guitar first of all no light listen but but could we uh it's not going to carry any more than you know very
far can we set like a and I know we have ordinances on this already but wouldn't it be more simplified if we set a decibel limit or something rather than it's very hard to it's very hard and it puts it puts the onus on them right they're the
ones that will have to complain suggesting that it would be AC acoustic acoustic AC acoustic performances only uh it would be Dan are you standing up because you want to say yes no no Amplified music well just come back up here just asking I I want to I guess
discuss um say your name for the record again hi good afternoon good afternoon good morning the first time you spoke um if we remove the Amplified and maybe just kept live music I'm a classical guy I like the violin I like uh I'm not
going to say r a piano there but that might I want to try to find the balance um and to do this I mean I'm this might take some time I can't commit now because we still Council coming up um but I I I want to know if that would appease neighbors if that would um
really help out you know this process if we took away the amplification and during the daytime or whatever case we just have uh ambient music throughout and we contain that how we could but if we removed all Amplified live music or maybe we go twice a month so at least it gives us an option to I don't know see
this is where I need rather than being on the spot and figuring this out I am more than open to considering these options okay then we'll consider our conditions thank you very much but has anybody ever seen even a duel or an individual that is not plugged into an app regard of how loud it is single one
have to S you haven't I have oh I not here on for on for he louder is better I think that with the traffic noise and everything it would be pretty difficult for a musician to but um yeah
certainly in a proper environment you can have unamplified music but I'm inside a not sure this is where we're going to have okay Ken anything else uh not at this time okay well thank you very much Noel
yeah stay because I have another question for you go ahead thank you madam chair again no Davies for the applicant um was trying to be as brief as possible but there were a number of comments that I think it's important that we do reut
um you know my position on the weight to be given the appraisal testimony um I'm not going to go through line by line the expert reports um or the testimony uh I I'm just going to say that we we disagree with them we
have to formally object to their opinions um so I want the record to note that um and rather than doing cross-examination or trying to show you each little bullet point and why we don't agree with it or what the base of our objection is for it
um you've got plenty of evidence in the record from Mr Gander um from your staff who has reviewed this application gone back a number of different times um and conditioned it
appropriately which is the essence of your plan development process right you have the discretion through your staff and also through these public hearings to create those conditions I I think I heard some comments that there's so many conditions so that that's a bad thing I
mean every time you know we worked with Judith or another member of staff on hey can you do this can you make this better we we have obliged on that that's why I think we're at 27 28 29 maybe we'll make it above 30 that that's not unusual you
you guys know that you do that on PDS and and that's what's what's cool is probably the wrong word but seems cool to me that's what's interesting about the PD process right instead of the conventional building that flexibility and those conditions
um the scale of this thing is is is not that big and I I I I just want to zoom back out here because you know you heard me say we're less intense you know I I think everyone's aware of uh uh of the scale of this but it we're talking about
the five pads we're talking about the support structure that we've heard more brick and mortar less brick and mortar I mean it seems like what we had heard at the last hearing was to have this more traditional structure and we've got
now an ice cream stand and and um the types of family-friendly uses that would come with this type of familyfriendly project um there are a lot of options that are by right today that are more
intense and more impactful than what we're proposing um all due respect to the neighbors I think that they've gotten used to the fact that the property near them has been vacant for a long long time um just because the property is vacant oh you guys don't do
that just because the property is vacant does not mean that it does not have entitlements on it um and so again part of your role in assessing the town's resoning criteria and whether or not
that criteria has been met by the applicant is balancing what's entitled by right today and what uh what the proposal is um it it's not
um legally permissible to deny something because you know you want it to stay vacant or you want no development on there I'm not suggesting that that's what you're thinking about but I I I just think the the Precision with which
the legal requirements mandate that you look at the specific resoning criteria and you look at um what it is that we're proposing based on um a comparison to what's entitled by right today
um protecting residential neighborhoods from commercial intrusion respectfully Anita you cannot say this is commercial intrusion when you have commercial there today this is not a rezone of
exclusively residential property there are commercial entitlements on most of the property day and that has meaning we are not coming in here like a lot of other developers and asking for a whole bunch more than what we have today we are asking for less and to boot we're
providing you with those public restrooms which frankly it seems to have been perverted that that no now those are a bad thing I've been here for hearings where a number of times you've asked the development Community to try to to provide you with this important
public benefit my client has agreed to do it and is doing it on the first ask it's not wait no Cal calm down for a second nobody said it was bad Jim just asked the question if it's required for you to have restaurant restrooms how then do they become a benefit to the public that the benefit is that they're
allowed to be they're open they're open to the public but you had to have them anyway well sure the the key component is the accessibility to the public which has been met with significant resistance by developers nobody said anything bad about Oh I thought I heard a comment about shooting up in the restrooms oh
that um and so Len people are concerned about that so well well but but I mention that because my last point is that with respect to your duties of of weighing that resoning criteria you're also responsible for giving the
testimony that you've heard today the proper weight of course right we know that expert testimony and the appraiser testimony and lay testimony now I know you've we've heard from Nancy and I agree with her that um testimony from a
town resident that's based on their personal knowledge can be considered and there's case law that supports that that's competent substantial evidence but you've got to you know do the judicial or the Quasi judicial weighing of those interest and weighing that against the other very substantial and very competent evidence that you've
heard from your staff and from the applicants team and with that we do meet your resoning criteria based on that evidence and pursu into that legal standard and because of that uh we'd ask that you please approve thank you thank you
no you're finished I would object to that or the applicant naturally we get the last word that's how it works that is how it works the letter we submitted does ask for opportunity toot and you did vote on it I do believe we're entitled to I also I
also believe EXC I just toy at Point at the at at the at the very beginning of the meeting I said I don't want to get into this back and forth Tit for Tat and I don't I don't I don't and I come to come to the microphone be very
brief I just want to clarify at no point did either of our parties or our experts or myself or anyone anyone who has spoken in in opposition pretend that what we want is non-development on this we understand
that right right well that's that's what was said and so since he responded to our we understand this these people are pretty smart yeah no okay I think thank you so much thank you they're very smart so procedurally um I think at the onset of our uh hearing this morning uh there
was discussion about cross-examination yes and I don't recall um any direction given by the lp as far as rebuttal rebuttal is different from Cross examination okay let me ask you gentlemen are you finished
rebutting because really who you need to listen to right now are these six people here we go yes ma'am I'm finished I'm happy to seven but mad if we have any questions we'll ask you how about that Madam chair also if I may um you know at the
beginning of today's meeting we talked about the different property rights that are at at play the fact that it is the property owner who has the most most uh things at stake here and the in the
agreed parties or adversely affected parties interveners they too have a property right interest at stake but not to the same degree as the property owner and for that reason in all due fairness it's generally the property owner that
has the last say so if you had intended to do btle I think that it would have been the interveners first for the record I'm going to ask you two gentlemen nol and David I'm going to ask you do you feel like you've been adequately heard fairly heard I want you
to say yes or no yes yes ma'am okay thank you doll I appreciate that okay we are okay absolutely than and Ken have you had have you had enough have you from you now yes because we may have questions in
which case we'll call you back up I told you to sit down all right going to call you friend are you getting all that down on paper all right good wait to read your report okay I need yell theice I'm I'm not yelling I'm just trying I'm just
trying to just excited yes all right so um I'd like to I'd like to hear what you all have to say now at this point and I'm gonna start with John mclan thank you any you're very welcome John and thank you to both parties for
very thoughtful well researched well argued positions um number one I think that this is absolutely appropriate process for us to be considering these things in that this is something that had not been
addressed and uh this is the mechanism by which we can do it um this proposed use is not addressed by the code um it's also I guess um it is something that is allowable
even though it is not addressed directly by the code um and I completely respect that the existing rights that this property has uh while they are less
intense or Excuse me while the proposed use is less intense than the use that it currently has on this property I think it's substantially different and the main reason I think it's substantially different is that an open air facility like this just has
significantly less control over the environment and the way that uh that environment is used as well as the impact um I have visited several of the food cour uh food truck courts uh that
have been referenced and I didn't see any that were right up against a residential neighborhood they specifically and I that that is something that probably should be addressed by the ordinances in that I think the location is the thing that I have the most concerned about is whether
it is um compatible with the neighborhood specifically um whether it's intrusive in a nuisance to the neighbors and um for those reasons I don't think that it is compatible with the specific
neighbors uh along here and I I believe that it's going to cause nuisance and harm okay that's what I've said um uh John did you have anything that you wanted to any points you wanted to add
for any details on any of the conditions uh yeah I don't know that the um the traffic study is something that's really required either way uh I don't think it makes an impact as far as the music uh that seems to be a concern to the
neighbors and anything to mitigate I believe that having the music within a semi-enclosed structure is going to help mitigate the nuisance to the neighbors especially if it's pointing in the other direction uh we've all
seen uh for example when the rude shrimp was at MOS Marina just changing the directions of the the speakers and putting them behind a container made a world of difference to that neighborhood um so I would suggest that we not if
this is passed and approved that we not limit them to acoustic only I think it could be managed just fine with Amplified music we're not talking about stacks of Marshal amps here we're talking about somebody plugging into a okay into an amp okay um that's it
thanks John Jim comments or any additions or anything to the um to the conditions well um um I agree with John that this is less intensive but it's more intrusive than
the existing CPD would be with the building structure and with the building structure the music Amplified or not inside would be a lot less intrusive on
the neighbors um you know I was a strong no the first time we took a vote on this but I've seen a substantial effort by the petitioner to listen to the neighbors concerns um I think food trucks are a
great concept I think they there's a place for them on the beach I just don't know that this is the right spot um and that's because of the adjacent residential I like John have looked at
the other food truck um Pavilion in the area including the one in Naples which hasn't been brought up um and they are not adjacent to residential they are in a commercial
setting or in a adjacent to public land or public park um and that makes them less intrusive on the quality of life and the enjoyment of the Neighbors which
I think think everybody needs to be sensitive too okay thanks and um Judith you made the change in the condition that Jim had suggested relative to the perious Grid or
impervious grid okay so that's okay Jane well I think on a stero Boulevard it's hard to not be commercial intrusion into residential neighborhoods until you get down to like lagona Shores because
commercial is the entire Boulevard and it's only one block deep on either way so I mean it's in several areas until you get down further in the South so I I I don't think that that can really it it's not something we can really calculate here on Fort Meers Beach but
the things that I would be interested in adding to conditions um is number eight on the hours um I might uh I would ask the um the owners to consider possibly uh
seven to nine and are you asking them to consider this or are you making this a condition I'm talking to the board as our discussion right now that we might consider s to nine uh stopping them using at 8 o00 which would cover the
dinner hour and that kind of thing um on number 11 uh that we would put required which is the the um uh grid I believe what that was um number
16 um address we need to still discuss and dis the generator issue and um I don't think that um a a trip generator a traffic study
would help in any way either way um because right now it just stands still there anyway so um and on 17 to add the end which you already did if I understand that correctly and took out the ore and I would also like to ask
that the bathrooms be locked up at close of business that they not just be open 247 just because it does make it where homeless might want to spend the night or you know a nice place to stay um and um that
the um condition be that the music must be inside the building um with two sides covered um on that corner that you uh pictured it on the the thing and that possibly that it
be uh only um uh acoustical music on the weekends and just have um fun music that you know oldies whatever uh that play around to for people to enjoy that does have to be really loud um conversational
music I should say you know that you can actually talk to somebody sitting next to you ambient yeah something like that um but those are the things that I would like to have discussion with the group on let me ask you something what about the thing that was brought up about the tables how would the tables be
accommodated when they close so that people don't just go and sit at the tables well we don't close down our benches on a stero Boulevard at night and we um that's public property that is public property but you know the
uh let's see what is another good example you don't have any issue you don't have any issue with the with the no no because I I I think that you know it would if it became a Gathering Place then there would be um you know
complaints for police to drive through and you know correct that issue the other thing I think that that is not being really looked at is that I do believe that this will be less noise than if you did have a restaurant there because I think there would be open
floors and music inside there that would go out both ways and that couldn't that wouldn't be contained just like the ones that are being built all over the island so I think big picture it's on the ground and it is going to have some bushes and some walls around it where as
you get it up in the air and it's going to carry a whole lot further so I you know if you're looking at you know the lesser of two bads I think it could be a better choice okay anything else Jane no
Doug um thank you um good good presentations by everyone uh I really uh I missed the last meeting and it was a tie vote and but I did watch all the all of that meeting um this is a really kind of
struggled with how I view this because there's good arguments on either side but I think my uh the way I'm leaning it right now is that uh I think the concerns of noise
smells transients are imagined and they may in fact happen but I think my feeling is it might not be as bad as it's being imagined like Jane just said if somebody was to build
a restaurant there they would want to go to the three stories we allow they'd want to have open decks looking out to the beach and they would want to have live music and they would probably want to have louder live music than what's been proposed here uh there was
Arguments for we should see something brick and mortar well the applicant has really changed the building to provide brick and mortar and it's right up against the one residence that's really close to the property and I am imagining
the any music or anything there' be an open bar but we be facing a sterile Boulevard like's been discussed uh which really mitigates that I think the uh if the whole site was commercial parking uh you would have
just as much traffic you probably have just as much traffic if you had a restaurant it seems like uh I do think that we should do the limited traffic analysis because I do think there might be a situation where we want to have a
right turn only on Chapel when you come out and get on a stero and not take a left on a stero or on Cottage I think they agreed to that or Cottage but um uh anyway uh I think it seems pedestrian friendly which fits our uh
comprehensive planning um it's resilient in the sense that the uh restaurant trailers can be removed if there's a storm coming uh and we're not talking about
uh trailer you know food trucks in a parking lot where they got their generators and wires all over the place we're talking about that you're going to have a sewer system they're going to be hooked up they're going to have their own power the generators are only for
emergencies or in emergencies they're going to just leave you know anyway way so I don't think that's really an issue and we're not talking about commercial generators that have to be exercised I mean they can exercise their generator when they got their trailer back at the
house or something but um I think it's a service that would be popular kind of needed I think it like I say I think it folks will it's something folks will walk to if you have a restaurant people are
going to drive to the restaurant but something like this I think is more more open it's like Street friendly we talked about that in our comprehensive p uh the small town character was mentioned by our planner um human scale was mentioned by
our planner which it seems to have uh I think the uh as far as the expert Witnesses uh you know I think the property value is kind of a speculative thing and I know we've been uh it's been argued that we
shouldn't even consider it but I'm not sure it even makes any sense to talk about that because that's we don't know that you know it may go up or down or the market conditions May overwhelm any other
factors and I think the noise uh the music I like music I think they should be allowed to have music live music but I think it can be managed so that it's with our own noise ordinances that we have right now we can manage we
can make sure that it's not I I think we can manage the noise of at least of Music um so uh I think uh I think it I think I really struggle with this but I think in
the overall weighing all the factors I think the project has value okay Don yeah I struggle to I I don't have a lot to add other than just to say that um you know the applicant has uh certainly has property rights and uh you know I
think the folks around it have certainly have property rights and and interest in their properties uh so I struggle you know on on one hand if it's uh if it's about noise when I walked around with the folks a lot of it seemed to be more about noise than anything uh and then they had some issues with the way
traffic would come through the property I think there are ways to address that whether it be you know gating Pelican watch um the people I feel the most for probably are the uh the single residences because they will they're being affected today we've heard from them they're already experiencing it and
they will experience it like it or not it will happen uh but at the end of the day it is a commercial property there's commercial property all around it so I struggle with um restricting it any much more than it already is uh or is being contemplated I think the applicants have
uh have heard loud and clear what the concerns are of the residents around there and the um and frankly the LPA uh certainly heard everything last time and we came back with a frankly a much better design in fact it's amazing the design is very similar to what I talked
about with Folks At Pelican watch when I was standing out on their pool deck um so I think a lot of things have been addressed so not a lot more to add I would like to hear I've heard it already but just say you know if there was a way I heard Dan say it if there was a way to either you know limit the live music to
three days a week or limit it to some uh you know I understand we have an ordinance for lot for noise but you know the reality is it's hard to it's hard to uh manage that or or manage compliance to it so if there was anything we could do with this I I think is is try to try
to restrict that noise to certain times back to Jane's point you know I was thinking the same I was thinking gosh if I'm in Pelican watch uh and they open at 7 o'clock that means people are going to be out there at 6 setting up and you're going to hear it right if you've ever staff stayed at the pink shell you hear
things going on if it's Banquets at night or other things setting up in the morning so you know if you could limit the hours maybe maybe even limit the hours to 8:00 a.m. to to 8:00 p.m. or 8:00 a.m. to 9:00 p.m. but anyway just to try to respect the residents and and potentially not uh you know not pull
people in uh too late I do think at the end of the day it's going to be a parking lot for access to the beach uh if you close too early it's just going to be people pulling in for Sunset so any those are my thoughts Chim thank you Anita you're
welcome so I'm not going to repeat what I did last time um I do think that the time that we gave the parties to talk was beneficial for all of us including Community because we're learning as we go through the process and we're learning it together and we're learning
it in real time so I think that was productive the only thing I would totally say before I put him a couple points is that um comment made about transparency I don't know how this body and this process could be any more transparent than it was I'm proud of what we did in that regard and I would argue with
anybody that said they didn't have a voice or an opportunity to express their points of view and um that is why we're sitting here today and I wouldn't be on this body if we had anything else going on so thank you for for bringing us for an opportunity to challenge that a bit because I think we've done a good job of that now I mentioned this in several of
the past cases we looked at thing that matters to me is not only what we're doing but who we're doing it with this is a local person it's a local neighbor it has local at risk Capital that I think has tried to have conversations
that are beneficial and compromised biased against the concerns and the issues I've asked a couple of questions trying to get hard NOS out of people and there haven't been some of those I look at that as the proper way to negotiate and um some of these things still need to be settled so appreciate the people
doing this I'd rather do that than people we don't know that are making promises they don't have to keep and don't have the consequences of somebody living just a few doors down that would have to deal with uh something they promised and didn't get kept so that matters to me and I know it matters to all of us don't mean to that personal
the other thing I would say and I talked to the neighborhood group about not the neighborhood group the uh the Pelican folks about this there's a lot of criteria here and while K you're right many or boiler prate have to be there anyway they all have to be complied with and you all know that but do this done
is try to create an architecture here for like kind situations and opportunities that we can leverage this learning curve codify it into an ordinance at some point should we choose to go that route but in any event we have to deal with what we're dealing with now and I think you've done a good job in creating a very comprehensive
inventory of conditions and criteria under which this entity needs to operate that being said it then comes down to compliance and enforcement and I would suggest if we can codify this in some sort of a a condition of the writing that we need to
put as much of that responsibility on the owners and The Operators as possible so what does that look like in my mind I think there ought to be some pre-arranged unless use quarterly for a um straw man here pre-arranged meeting that the owners have with our code
enforcement and or our compliance people and they would bring forth for that say the the first two years of operation a list of verifications and validations and codifications that the thing they agreed to here are being complied with doesn't mean we can't do on-site code enforce or anything like
that I just think it brings a different different a set discipline to know that you have a meeting with the people that control your operating Destiny and you're going to come prepared to represent the things that you agreed to do you're doing in the meantime any accumulated inventory by neighbors or
other insted parties that happen to come to the town can be kept on file here too and those conversations I think could be a best practice of uh reality versus representation and that ought to always be on the owner's side I think we'll never have the staff the time or the
wherewithal to check on all this all the time and I don't think that's fair to the agreement we're making let alone to the neighbors I mentioned this to them when I was in their residences so I'd like to include a requirement that for like I say the first couple years of operation to show this up it's running it's consistent it's complied with and
it's aligned with all the things they agreed to do as they agreed to do them that can Grandfather at some point and go away and the attorney can tell us we can put something legally like that in place but I think many of the owners that agree these kind of things ought to own the responsibility proving to us they're doing it with that I'll with
that I'll leave it there and how do you suggest that how do you suggest that's incorporated into this as a 29th condition or 28th condition it ought to be an overarching condition in my mind that says subject to quarterly um compliance and Reporting back to
whatever Department in the in the town that we want them to come to um that thing would happen on a regular scheduled basis it isn't a public meeting but it's a Reliance meeting alignment meeting so whether it's 30 which makes it sound like one of 29 I'd rather it be something and these are all
conditioned by and overarching by a requirement by the owner to quarterly report into the town it could be W Clause that's correct Nancy you get that I would prefer it to be a condition rather than within the wouse Clause but the wouse
Clause could be used to justify why it is a condition yes yes okay well if you all consider that in your conversations there and like talk more about it if you're interested okay anything else do it thanks so could we go ahead can I ask
the staff a question yeah okay um while we don't have the uh Master concept plan the
2007 0728 ordinance on the schedule of uses which is we keep ref referring to the underlying CPD it says that the schedule of uses could be a maximum of
23,6 square feet which would consist of residential dwelling units no more than three units lodging rental units office administrative retail store less than 5,000 square ft
Civic essential Services daycare and cultural facilities so this discussion about the three story open yeah a restaurant and two stories and open it doesn't seem like that would fit
under the doesn't fit under the 07 ordinance so that would have to go through the same process correct that we would here it's not an entitled right right I I see so a three story twostory open could
be denied as well absolutely okay so other than Jim's suggestion could we talk for a moment about the hours of operation that's been brought up by a couple of you so do you have a desire to modify the condition
for the hours of operation Don Jane I I'm just saying when I go by restaurants now there all closed down at 8:00 so I mean uh you know I mean the things that are on a stero Boulevard that you can see and um
so I I'm just thinking that you know yes the hours might get longer after rebuilding and people are here so I was thinking possibly 9 o' and then the music stop at 8 o' I don't know how you feel about that well let me ask about
the curability of that if we decide to make that condition what's the process to change that once we redevelop season enhance Etc can can somebody they have to come in and amend their CPD because it's it's an entire it's a condition of their CPD that doesn't seem fair just
want to be very careful to not get I mean unless you really that's what you want I want on the right and the only re yes and the only reason that you would do that would be as protection for the for the uh residents no that's entirely my interest do does hours of
operation include the parking lot yeah the bathroom well I say that I told you I was leaving to take my daughter to the airport early this morning and one of the few vehicles I saw out in commercial
areas was dump trucks they were making their pickups before there was any traffic and that was at 5:30 this morning well you're going to get that with the dumpsters that's I'm saying is is hours of operation just hours of operation for
the facility or are we talking about deliveries and Disposal as well yeah well I think if you limit operating hours you'll have one hour on either side of it so that's why I think you know if I had you could include deliveries and service you can include
that in the operating hours because when we did the Time Square CRA that we did include that for that very reason y well I would like to um have a consensus on lock the bathrooms after the wa let's stick with it stick with it stick with
it to hours first so what's the consensus about the hours are we Don are you do you want to change the hours and um modify that condition or not I I do I I mean I think it we're we're saying it's a f i mean the applicant saying it's a family you know uh situation
let's make it a family situation so what are the hours I'd love to um I don't want to put the app applicant in too much of a pi Pi Le but I I'd probably go like 9 to 8 if I had no you got to have breakfast huh breakfast hours you got to have
breakfast people get up at 7 o' and the only thing I would ask us to think about pragmatically is what is one of the most important things that happens every Sun afternoon evening on the beach why would we make an operation not be open to watch that
magnificent thing so Sunrise is sunset a much different thing there I mean that's sunrises at 6 something in the morning at times it could be later than this I'm just talking about backend is what I was talking so Jane's suggestion was 7 A.M to 900 p.m. with music stopping at
8 yep okay you like that yeah do you all like that even though I know you don't like it in general but do you like that well I can beu if there's enough condition that's what the conditions are doing they're protecting Okay so so
Judith we're modifying the condition of the hours of operation which do the hours of operation include service the restaurant trash uh deliveries or whatever no can you dictate you can you absolutely can
dictate well how it was you could finish your food and your you know so that I mean you stop serving at 9 o00 I'm talking about trash and deliveries and service to the business is that included
in their hours of operation or like somebody else said Can Cisco come at 6 o'clock in the morning or like Jim said can the dump trucks roll out at 5 the beer truck come in the beer truck I'd say you have to have that
opportunity an hour before the hour after but I don't see them out here at 10:00 at night and I prob yeah I think you'll see them early but probably not late nobody wants to be here to so are those Services included or not included
in the hours of operation I say not included okay we haven't done that to any other restaurant yes we have not included all right uh you know what before I go on it's obvious you know if there was a family that I would love to
see do this it's you all in in all seriousness but I can and no I know I know it sounds commercial intrusion and you know I'm still embedded in in those days of incorporation and what this is less intense I agree with you completely
but it is more intrusive it is more intrusive and it just can't help but be do I love the project I love it and the changes you made from last time to now I think are fantastic but I still don't think it fits right there and that's that's why I can't support it but obviously you have four votes here so
now we're just trying to negotiate the nitty-gritty okay um so bathrooms the I think closing the bathrooms is extraordinarily important but I also think it's important like somebody brought up about the tables um
the tables what what happens Dan are you hearing this because you may come up with a great idea uh the tables just being there you know we don't have what I would call the loitering element that we had prean because there's really no place for anybody to be but we're going
to start creating those places again and and that I mean this that may end up being a function of the ownership dealing with that like you all said before that may end up happening about that but what about the bathrooms can the bathrooms be locked down yes yes and
electronic locks will do that time stamp all kinds of things can come they won't have a problem and what about the water for the showers everything shut down y okay so animals drink Judith can you get that in somehow in that condition number 10 addresses that thank you
uh okay so we have the requirement of the perious impervious grid um and now tell me about these generators because I don't understand exercising a generator I don't own one and so is back to what what doug dou was talking about if
they're all self-contained but they're not going to be leaving right that's that's what would do Doug situation would require the leaving they if there's a smaller generators they can be taken off a lot of the trucks have them sitting on the if that's the case that's a different configuration than I was
thinking through they probably won't have them there I wouldn't leave a generator there if I own one of these food trucks because being somebody's trunk I'm hooked up to yeah I'm hooked up and so yeah should there be a condition that prohibits the exercising of generators on a weekly basis yeah I
think I would be okay with that I think it is already stated that the generators would only be used hang on like what if the structure has a backup generator for power because think about in a in another hurricane you're going to want this place cuz it's going to be one of the only places that can serve food on
Central conduit then right so right so it seems to me like you might have a generator on site or maybe you'll have a big enough generator that each of those food trucks can plug into it if they need to I don't know at Central cond do you can set up pre rentals on that I I
mean would if they've evacuated because of an emergency the truck's gone wouldn't they bring the gener back with them yeah yeah but you yeah you just can't say we're saying there's no generators and well anyway if you have a
situation if you bring in a portable generator it could be what they call hospital grade where it's got that's got total sound deing all around it so is it or isn't it an issue is it not an issue no because it's already in here it says in emergency situations because they're not going to be running off of generator
I know that Jane but what Jim brought up was the exercising of the generators on a regular basis but if they're not on site they wouldn't be exced that's the intention they're not on site not like the one we're dealing with okay okay um let me just see was there are we missing anything
else uh music the music the music so yeah haven't haven't decided about the music I say let's do three days because they could do Sunday afternoon and not do evening they could be Friday and Saturday night but um during the week it
would be just fun music could and could we limit it to three hour windows or something like that I think having music there I'm saying I'm saying the live music piece most places they're like you know 12 to
3 5 to 8 something like that right true to me that's an operational issue it's an operational issue the question is do they or do they not get live music and is it or is it not Amplified or is all of that taken into consider ation in
their enclosure now I'd like to say three days a week in the enclosure and other piped in music throughout the week and other hours while open so they can play music nonamplified
anytime but you're saying three days a week live music inside that corner really I really kind of hate to restrict how they operate we're say the structure is good enough and the structure the whole point was put it inside and follow the rul I mean they're they're building a building
to contain it I mean that's pretty big concession I think I I stated that I thought if it was inside those building that an amplified would be quite frankly far okay I don't want okay yeah all right so we're leaving the music
Alone want to add Lang specifically about because what it says sorry what what it says right now is that there are outdoor entertainment areas identified on the master concept plan which is that whole kind of lawn area in the middle so if you only want it from to to be
projecting from inside that structure we should add some language okay yes so there does need to that because I think that's kind of what Dan represented when he was up here before yes that that music would be enclosed in that's he's nodding his head
and so is Debbie and that is three three-sided structure three sided structure yes it's a it's a three sided structure it's a it's how did you get to sit up here inter did you told him sit down that usually implies in your seat
youed to wait you had some more questions for me just stay right stay right there Cal stay right there stay right there did your table issue get address to your satisfaction he hasn't called your friend yet it did not did not but they they're we're assuming
that's going to be an operational issue well the issue I have around the tables though is if there is a name storm coming and you've got all these picnic tables or what have you they'll have they they float they'll go up the tables will go upstairs he just said
okay okay is there anything else from anyone here that's that hits all of my all of my notes my notes anybody else Judith do you think that you've got
everything yes yes and what about the self- compliance did anybody have a problem with approaching this this way CU I don't know if you've done it before but this is a complicated one I think we ought to put something like that four times a year is a lot well it's not if you live next door
right okay you're wait you're going to wait six months for uh yeah quarterly is we can always change it if we choose to do something like that um I say start with quarterly where I am if there's not a problem then it ought to be e you don't need it so maybe you can can you
put a sunset in quarterly for you know first year or so for the first two years and then afterward then it okay exactly how are you going to do that Judith so what I would and I'm thinking through this on on the Fly here but um perhaps when they apply for their development
order um before they go ahead and approve the property um we lay out a plan about when that's going to take and who the staff person responsible for that Rie perhaps co- compliance might be the right entity and there we draft that which has all of these so we're going to
be monitoring for for noise and trash and whatever those components of that would be that they have to we have to create that document at development approval development order um so that we're all agreeing at that time before moving forward about what that's going to look like do too and just the whole
point is the teeth in it is it's on the ownership where they're them making the agreement and secondly it's condition of operation so there's a consequence and not talking about emotional consequence or complaint or something outside their control or sitting with code compliance and saying these are the 16 things outside the normal code stuff that we
need to do relative to us and here's our proof we're doing them and then we can inspect that anytime we want and we'll be at the day that those are not followed and they represent they are which is what I was after we did this in loan Covenant agreements all the time oh it's my greatest hope that this
is going to work out somehow it really is um It's a Wonderful neighborhood and it's wonderful developers unfortunately uh the two sides aren't meeting here but I hope it's going to work out um okay is somebody going to make a motion with the
changes that have been reflected in the um in the conditions for approval nobody's going to make a motion yeah oh Jim's go ahead you're gonna do it no go ahead okay I I just want to make sure the attorney um how to do the
all-inclusive language to incorporate all the things we talked about right now because there's no way to put that in motion other than just including what's been discussed approved yes I'll work with um Judith and we'll go back through we'll watch the video and make sure we capture it all and I make a motion to
approve accordingly thank you second and there's a second there's a motion to approve the request and seconded by uh made by Jim and seconded by Doug is there any discussion further discussion on the motion do we need to say that it meets
all the conditions and that's that's kind imp okay okay very good anything else from anyone Jim your vote hi Doug hi Jane hi John hi John Nate Jim no me no
congratulations and uh neighborhood I'm sorry but I'm going to pray this works out okay thank you uh thank you NL thank you uh thank you everybody for being here motion nice to see you okay if if everybody could uh keep this down I'm going to U move on to the next items on
the agenda which is the admin straight of agenda maybe we'll just wait a minute here no I'm going to keep going uh Nancy so these next two items are hey can you guys just please keep if everybody could please keep it down we're continuing our meeting thank
you um the next one is a discussion on the public notice ordinance uh which we discussed at our last meeting and and previously I I think you did a great job on this I don't know if anybody has any any any additional questions or
addition yeah if you want to I mean it is a discussion item thank you all just wanted to thank you all for your time thank we in the middle of our meeting Judith was responsible for drafting the public notice ordinance and again this is just for discussion today
you're not taking a vote on it but we just wanted to make sure on both of these that we captured what you had been asking us to bring back to you I think you did a top- notot job personally but but you know what uh maybe maybe I'm in the minority like I was
before need so what do you br tissue to these meetings I um was hanging my hopes on du I've got a a call that I postpone to four yes I know and I this is something you probably discuss without me you're not voting so yes we could
have we could have done without J in the [Music] 11 so Doug needs motor motion of order here for a second just because there's some meat the second part of this postpone
this I need Doug in this we certainly can let me ask everybody does anybody have anything really important and pending that we need to discuss at this moment and if not may have a motion for thank you thanks folks sorry continue next
meeting