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Okay, >> good morning everyone. Th Good morning. This is a regularly scheduled meeting of the Fort Myers Beach Local Planning Agency. It is 9:01 a.m. Um, six of us are present and Don

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Sudith is there on the Zoom. Good morning, Don. And good morning. Uh, if you would please stand for the invocation and the pledge of allegiance. >> I pledge allegiance to the flag >> of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one

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nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> So, the invocation this morning is just to wish everybody here and everybody watching a happy summer. I hope you all are safe and uh uh during your travels

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or have a good time here at home. Amen. >> Amen. >> May I have a motion please for the approval of the final agenda? >> So moved. >> Second. >> Chair. >> Yes ma'am. >> Could we ask that there be consideration? >> Yes. >> Yes.

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>> Reluctantly, I'll make that motion. >> Thank you, Jim. Is there a second? >> I'll reluctantly second. Oh, you're going to be in trouble today, Don. Uh oh. There's a motion in a sec in a second to accept Don remotely. Uh is there any objection to that motion?

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Motion carries unanimously. Don, where in the world are you? >> Arizona. >> Arizona. Well, it's nice to see you. Okay. So, now may I may we had a motion for the approval of the final agenda by the two gyms. Is there any discussion on

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that motion? Or if not, any objection to the motion? Um, Madame Chair, just as a reminder, there was a request made for intervenor status and that should be heard before the um item D. >> Yes. >> On your agenda.

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>> Um, as an item before item D or in the process of item D? >> In the process, but towards the beginning of it. >> Okay. So, but we don't need to amend the final agenda for that. >> Correct. >> Okay. Any objection to the motion to approve the final agenda? Hearing none.

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That carries unanimously. Um, approval of the minutes for May 8th of uh, 2026 and the 12th unless there are any corrections or objections to the minutes. >> I move we approve uh, the minutes for

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the May 8th and May 12th meeting. >> Second. >> Thank you. Any discussion on that? Any objection to the motion? And that carries unanimously. The first item on our agenda is public comment. and it's public comment on agenda items, but if

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you're here for a hearing, you should wait and speak during the hearing. So, you're part of the record of that hearing, unless you just don't have time to stay, in which case you're welcome to speak now. Anybody want to speak at this moment? Okay, seeing none, we'll move on

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to our first hearing, which is a variance. Um, this is V. Nancy, do you want to do your spiel first? >> Yes. Thank you, Mayor. I'm sorry. >> Yeah, >> chair. Chair and mayor. They're very close. Okay. Um,

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>> so, uh, today on your agenda, you have three variances and one development agreement. And these quasi judic use decisions are quasi judicial in nature. And this requires that your public hearing comply with some

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procedural requirements that have been established in Florida law and in our land development code. So these quasi judicial proceedings will be less formal than proceedings before a circuit court. However, they will be more formal than the remainder of your meeting and we

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must follow basic standards of due process that requires certain notices, the application of the correct standards of law and that your decisions be made on competent substantial evidence presented to you today either in written

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documents or through oral testimony. Your responsibility today is to evaluate that testimony and information for each of these agenda items and draw a conclusion regarding whether the criteria in the land development code or

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in state law as may be applicable have been satisfied. So speculation or opinion that is not based on competent facts should not be uh considered by you in evaluating an agenda item. Testimony

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by professionals who are qualified as experts in a particular area has been considered competent evidence by Florida courts as well as testimony by neighbors and residents who have fact-based information such as minutes, surveys,

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engineering report or if their testimony is based on their personal knowledge and information. So members of the public who are present, if you intend to speak, please keep my comments in mind and when you come forward, state your name clearly for the record and whether or

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not you have been sworn in. Today we have three variances before you. I want to remind you that a unanimous decision by eligible voting members of the LPA

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uh to approve a variance constitutes final agency action subject to a request by anyone for an additional hearing or review of the matter by the town council if the request for the additional

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hearing is received by the town clerk within 10 days. So for purposes of efficiency before we begin these public hearings, I would like to go ahead and dispose of a few matters related to quasi judicial agenda items. The first

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is I'm going to ask the town clerk whether or not these agenda items have been properly noticed pursuant to our land development code and Florida law. >> Yes, they have. >> Thank you. Um, also at this time, if there is any LPA member who has a

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conflict of interest that would prohibit them from voting on any of these items, this would be an appropriate time to go ahead and make that disclosure so that we can make sure that we have a quorum present for the review of that item. >> Thank you, Nancy. Don, do you have any

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conflicts on any of the cases? >> No conflict. >> Thank you. How about you, Ed? >> None. >> Jim, >> none. >> Jane? >> None. >> Don? Doug. >> No, ma'am. >> Jim, >> none. >> I have none as well. >> Thank you. So, at this time, um, we

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would like to go ahead and ask if anyone who is present intends to provide any testimony, if you would please stand and raise your right hand. >> And the for anybody who's going to give testimony in any of the cases today

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>> and that includes public comment. >> And that's public comment. So, anybody who wants to speak today should stand up and be sworn in. >> Perfect. Um, if you'll raise your right hand, do you solemnly swear that the testimony that you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? >> Okay.

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>> Thank you very much. >> And madame chair, we will take the qualification of experts um within the context of each of the public hearings. >> Thank you, Nancy. >> And so I think at this point um you can read the title. >> I'm going to read the title and then ask

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if there's any expartees. So this is a variance request B 202600070 for 5520 Eststerero Boulevard. This is a resolution of the Fort Myers Beach Local Planning Agency approving approving with

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conditions or denying variance 202600070 requesting a variance from land development code uh 30 table 34-3 to reduce the required side setback to allow a balcony to extend 2 feet into the required 6 and 1/2 ft side setback

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for a single family residence in the RM zoning district for the property located at 55 520 Eststerero Boulevard, generally referred to as strap number 334624 W100205170 in Fort Myers Beach and providing for

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other clarifications as necessary providing for conflicts of law scrier's errors severability and providing for an effective date. Um Jim, do you have any exparte for this case? >> Do not. >> How about you Doug? >> No, ma'am. >> Jane, >> no. >> Jim, >> none. >> Ed? >> No.

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>> Don? No, >> I have none as well. So, we'll begin with the um staff. Jason, >> good morning. My name is Jason Smallley. I'm the senior planner here with the town. So, before you today is uh the the

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request for 5520 Eststerero Boulevard. Uh the request before you is to allow for an additional 2 ft of protrusion on a proposed sideyard balcony. So, this is a balcony within their property uh

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boundaries uh on the north side or right hand side if you're standing in the front yard. Uh the request uh would allow the deck or the balcony to extend at 4 1/2 ft of setback as opposed to the 6 1/2 ft of setback that is generally

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required for lots that are less than 50 ft wide. Um the original home that existed there uh which was approximately 1300 square ft was heavily damaged and ultimately demolished following the storm. So what uh what's going on today

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is the rebuild of a larger structure and um they're they're attempting to do it all within within the codes but uh we did recognize during their DP review that this was extending into the side setback and then they chose to request a

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variance. Uh the applicant is here for any questions that you may have. Uh staff is here for any questions or concerns that you may have as well. >> Thank you Jason. Do we have any questions for Jason? >> Oh, I apologize. Also, uh the recommendation from staff is for a

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conditional approval. Uh the conditions in there are fairly boilerplate. >> Jason, how many um platted lots are there along that area right there? >> Oh, a lot of those lots have been sliced and diced since the plats were created.

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So, when we look at the plats, the the plats are much larger. Um the the structures as they exist today, there's there's quite a few of them. If you'll give me just a moment, I can do a quick count within the general area there. >> Well, I'm just talking about on either

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side of the the the blue house. >> U So, are you talking about the neighbor to the left of them? >> Yeah. Empty lot on the left and then there looks like there's possible two lots on the right. I believe and I'll defer to the owner, but I believe what I understand is that the owner owns one of

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the adjacent lots as well and that a third third party owner owns the other side of the lot, but I don't exactly remember which of those lots that the applicant owns as well. >> Any other questions for Jason at the

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moment? Thank you. Is the applicant here or your or the representative? Come on up. >> Yes, >> you guys come on up. Madam Chair, could we go ahead Could we go ahead and um for purposes of the record identify who has provided expert testimony and who will

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be providing expert testimony on this item? >> Sir, you need to come to the microphone. >> Sorry about that. >> And are you providing expert testimony? >> No. My name's Jose Musa. I'm Musa's brother and I'm just here representing

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her because she's out of town. >> Okay. Um, is there anything you want to say about the case? >> No, I just said that I think they referred to the owner if they were here. I didn't know. >> So, you you pretty much agree with what

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staff's representation has been? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Yeah. I don't know if there's any clarification that needs to be answered for the question that you had on the properties. >> Do you have do you do you have knowledge of it? >> Yes, absolutely. >> Go ahead. So to if you're standing on a steroid looking at the property

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>> to the left was the Sam Piper Hotel which is completely gone. There's nothing there. >> There isn't a lot between. >> No, there's no lot in between. >> Okay. >> So the property line of the property shares you know with what was the Sand Piper. >> Okay. >> And then to the right of that there are

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two properties that are being shared. One is already built already which is the blue house that you're referring to which is our neighbor. Mhm. >> She was already notified and she is in accordance and doesn't have any issues. >> Okay. >> And the other lot also belongs to my

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sister that also got completely destroyed in the in the store. >> Okay. >> And it's an empty lot now. >> Okay. Yeah. >> Any questions for the applicant? Don, do you have any questions for the applicant? >> No, no question.

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>> Okay. Um, thank you, sir. >> Okay. >> Is was there anybody else who was going to I have a question. Oh, go ahead. >> I just want to make sure I understand. >> From looking at the drawing that's in the package, there's like a 4 foot wide balcony on the second floor that runs

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the entire length of the structure, >> right, >> on the northwest side. >> Yes. >> Okay, >> that's right. >> I just want to confirm that. That's my understanding. Okay. >> Anything else for the applicant? Thank you, Mr. Musa. >> Thank you.

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Um, we'll open the public hearing. Is there anybody here who'd like to testify in this case? Seeing none, we'll close the public hearing. Any further questions from the LPA members for the staff or the applicant?

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>> Madame Chair, has the agenda materials been accepted into the record? >> I'm sorry. Is is there a vote to accept the agenda materials into the record? Um, that's new. >> Uh,

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okay. Would somebody make a motion? >> I'll make that motion to accept in the record. Thank you. I'll second. >> Uh, any discussion on that? >> Yeah, I just have one. Could you give us some context, Nancy? oftentimes um sometimes in the event of an appeal

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there is an issue as to whether or not the materials that are either in staff's records or in the agenda have been accepted to you before you by you as part of your record in the deliberation

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of this um meeting. It's just to basically keep the record pretty clear. But Nancy, doesn't that happen when we accept the final make a motion to approve the final agenda? >> That would be the order

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uh and not within um each specific item. So there's no additional when you make that motion. It's my understanding that you're accepting the items that are identified as agenda items, but not necessarily the agenda backup for each

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of the items. So should our deliberations begin with accepting the materials so we can adequately use those for legitimate deliberations at the beginning of every variance? >> Yes. It's just kind of a housekeeping thing that I would like to have in the record for this item as well as every item. So Amy, could you change the

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agenda from here on out? Because I I don't want to go to each item and say, could I could we have a motion to accept all the materials to if if we're approving the final agenda, we could approve also the materials held within >> could do that. Yeah. Okay. That'd be

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great. >> Thank you, Madam Chair. >> Thank you. Um uh did we have the motion? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And was there Did we vote? Did we Okay, let's um That that threw me for a loop. I never heard that. Where the heck

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did you get that, Nancy? >> This is our script. >> Okay, >> we can discuss that for a meeting. >> All right. All right. Um, all in favor of the motion say I. >> I. >> Anyone opposed? Okay. Motion carries unanimously. So now, are there any further questions for the staff or the

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applicant on this variance request? And if not, may I have a motion, please? I move that we approve variance number 20260705520 Esterero Boulevard including the three conditions recommended by staff and

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finding that the requirements for the variance have been found. >> Support. >> Thank you. Um any discussion on the motion? >> Your vote. Jim >> I. >> Jim >> I. >> Doug >> I. Jane >> I >> Ed

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>> I >> Don >> I >> and I'm an I. The motion carries unanimously. Congratulations Mr. Musa. >> Madam Chair, could you go over quickly the um 10day period again? I know Nancy covered all that, but when you have new applicants, this one's important because it's unanimous. So, um, when we when the

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LPA has a unanimous vote on a variance, um, it can be the final decision unless somebody were to oppose the decision within 10 days, in which case then you would have to go to the town council.

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Um, so this could be your final step with any luck. Uh, but there is a possibility that somebody could say, "Oh, no, we we don't like this decision." and they would they would question it or appeal it in which case then you would have to go to um to the town council. That's for all variance

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requests in front of the LPA >> and we would get notified. >> You would get notified. Yes, sir. Yeah. Okay. Thank you very much for being here. All right. Our next variance is for is V 20250260 for 102 Baymar Drive. This is a

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resolution of the Fort Myers Beach Local Planning Agency approving approving with conditions or denying variance 20250260 requesting a variance from land development code section 34 table 34-3

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for the property located at 1002 Bayar Drive generally referred to as strap number 294624 W200015510 in Fort Myers Beach to reduce the required 20ft rear setback by 7.9 ft to

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allow a rear setback back of 12.1 ft for an enclosed access staircase extending to the second floor of a two family residence within the residential conservation RC zoning district and providing for other clarifications as necessary providing for conflicts of law

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scrier's errors severability and providing for an effective date um don any exparte in this case. >> Uh, no. >> How about you, Ed? >> No. >> Jim, >> no. >> Jane, >> none. >> Doug, >> no, ma'am. >> Jim, >> no. >> And I have none.

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>> So, we'll start with the staff report. >> Good morning again. My name is Jason Smallley, senior planner with the town. Before you is a request today for a variance to reduce a rear enclosed set of stairs. This is a double stair. Um,

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the request is to reduce the setback by 7.9 ft and to allow for a minimum setback on the rear stairs to be 12.1 where 20 ft would normally be required. Um, so staff has recognized that this

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lot is is not cleancut. It's not an interior rectangular lot. Um, this lot does look similar to many of the other what I'll call endcap lots on the ends of uh some of the more residential neighborhoods, but quite honestly, it's

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a it's an oblong shape. Um, and so it's a little odd, little off from what we would expect normal interior lots to be. So, the the recommendation of approval with conditions or excuse me, of denial, sorry. Um, takes into account the the

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understanding that the lot may look a little bit odd, but they're beginning from a blank slate here today and that staff believe that they could move the stairs around uh to accomplish what they're trying to do by utilizing the

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additional 10-ft protrusion into the front setback. uh the applicant has chosen to go ahead and uh utilize this on the rear of the home which is not afforded that additional 10- foot and that's what necessitated the request for the variance today. Um staff recognizes

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that the rest of the build seems to be within compliance of the code. So what they're asking for is just the reduction of the 20ft setback by 7.9 ft. Uh, I believe the applicant is here today if you have any questions and staff is here

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for any questions or concerns that you may have. >> Does anyone have questions for staff? >> I do. Was so the last property that we looked at compared to this property? Are they both starting from a new slate? >> Uh, so they are both starting from a

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fresh site. I would just point out that the previous lot was very much impinged on the sides. This one does have larger setbacks. So, for instance, it does have to provide a 20 foot side street setback in in addition to the normal 25- ft

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front uh setback there, but they have a lot more space to to sort of move around the structure in this case. They could have reduced the size of it. They could have taken advantage of the front setback, which was an original recommendation. Um, we're not stepping

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in to say that that the staff is is telling them how to design this. We just told them that there were some options to perhaps accomplish their goals uh while not necessitating the variance. They've chosen to go ahead and do the the variance and that is their right to

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do it. Um, but I would defer to them as far as is that a nec necessary design to accomplish what they need or is this a choice? Mhm. >> Jason, >> um when you have a corner lot and have two 25 ft setbacks,

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um shouldn't that give you the right to have two uh side setbacks that are um um for the back and for the other side? I mean, that's it's an unreason to me.

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It's unreasonable to have to have 25 and 20. So, in this case, it would be a 25 on the front, a 25 on the on the side street. They have a 10-ft side um and then they have a rear. So, one side, one

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rear, and then two street setbacks. U so we recognize that the the additional setbacks on this site do sort of force the structure in into the middle here. Uh what we're saying is that staff when we reviewed it initially just looked at

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it and said this we believe that the stairs in the entryway could be accomplished uh with a little bit of compromise on the front. But I recognize that it would probably have um reduced the depth of the set of stairs that they're proposing here if they did try

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and fit it into that additional 10ft setback they're allowed for on the front. To your point though, you can utilize that additional setback in both the street setback or the the uh front stereo setback in this case. That's a choice that corner lots can make and

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that's a little bit more flexibility for them. Um but again, what they're requesting is to go ahead and put it into the rear. >> They can do that without a variance request on the 25s. >> Um yes. So they that is a a buy carve out that's allowed for in the code. They don't have to ask for anything

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additional. Good question. Thank you. >> Is there any um >> feedback from the property owner on the northeast side that's the setbacks abuts against? >> Um I'll defer to the applicant if if we've heard anything on that one. I am

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not seeing uh any anything from the neighbors on the submitted package as of right now, but I will defer to them if we've heard anything else. I apologize. Just one more followup on my question because I'm just learning this piece in part. How much is the by right

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infringement on the 25 setback when you have a lot like this? >> Uh you would be, excuse me, you would be allowed to have a 10-ft depth or 10ft additional protrusion. Um so you would be giving a minimum of 15t setback in this case >> and that's specifically for accessory

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structures, stairs, etc. Not the not the home itself. >> Exactly. store. Um, stoops, porches, and balconies is what the code specifically allows for. >> Thank you, Jason. >> Anything else for the staff? Okay, we'll ask the applicant to come up or their

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representative. Is somebody here for this case? >> Um, Madame Chair, again, a housekeeping matter. >> This was Cara Stewart's. Is that right? >> Who is the who um has there been expert testimony? And are you accepting into

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the record the agenda materials? >> Oh yes. >> So move to accept the materials into the agenda. >> Second. >> Any objection to that? >> Um uh Jason motion carries unanimous been >> accepted as an expert in the past.

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>> He has been. And do we have to go through that every time too now? >> No, but if you could just state it within the record that would be fine. >> Okay. All right. You just >> No, this is not car. This is not Cara's. Okay. There's a gentleman who had Jason Smallley has been accepted into the

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record. Uh and sir, have you you've never testified before us? >> I have not. I'm here the first time. >> So are you testifying? Uh can you can you tell us a little bit? Are you an expert? >> So my name is William Moringo. So I'm representing Atlas and Design and Engineering. Yes. So I just I'm here to

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just represent the the drawings that were submitted and on behalf of the applicant. I thought the applicant was going to be here, but if you have any questions regarding that, I have the plans here and that's why I'm here. >> Um, do we need to accept him as an expert or >> can we get your name again?

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>> William and last name or O R E N G O. >> Thank you. >> So, you could accept him. I don't know what his title is. Um, >> do you do this for a living? Yes, >> we do. Yes. Okay, good. >> Yes, you do. Okay, let's Could we have a motion to accept Mr. >> Trying to nail that down? All that's in

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weekend drawers. >> Mr. Orango as an expert in his field, please. >> Uh, I'll make the motion to accept Mr. Orango as in his field. Thank you, Jim. Is there any objection to that motion? That carries unanimously. Any questions for Mr. Orango on this? Jane, did you

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want to ask him the question about the stairs? Um, I'm I was just asking for the from Jason about whether that is acceptable because I I think we've done that on several properties that were

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corner lots and we could use the side setbacks on different areas. So, I I really don't have a question for him. >> Anybody have any questions for the gentleman? I do. Ed. Yeah. >> Um, >> if you were to move the stairs to the front of the house, would that affect

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the curb appeal of the house from the street? >> I think that was the big from what I'm looking at the plans, that's that's what what's driving us to put that at the rear because if we put them on the front, which originally they were on the front, when you're driving on a sterile boulevard, it's it might not look as

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appealing as it would >> hidden on the other side of of the property. is um um access to the stairwell is that from the parking area under the building. >> How do you how do you get to the stairwell,

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>> the enclosed staircase? >> So access would be through the ground floor level. So you can have access through that to go up to the first and second. >> Yeah. From the under from underneath the building or from the side ladder >> from the ground level because the ground

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level the garages. Yeah. >> Um, I guess the my question is the adjacent property owner because we're kind of enroaching on the setback. I don't know if that affects them or not. It'd be nice to know that they're okay with it.

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>> Um, well, doesn't look like anybody's here, but we'll see. Uh, any other questions for the gentlemen? >> Don, did you have any questions? >> No, no question. >> Okay. Thank you very much, sir. Appreciate you being here. Um, is there any We'll open the public

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hearing. Anyone here to speak on this hearing? Seeing none, we'll close the public hearing. Any further questions for the staff um or the applicant? If not, may I have a motion unless you want some time to think about

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it? So Jason, the reason that you um denied it is because it doesn't meet the setbacks. >> I I think the the general umbrella here

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is that yes, it doesn't meet the setbacks, but that's the reason that they're here today. Um, mostly the denial is just because again staff could see a a method to accomplish this while staying within the allowances and taking advantage of the additional protrusion.

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Uh, we don't want to speak on the curb appeal of it. That's a that's a private matter with them and that may have uh caused them to come here and ask for that, but that's not part of my review for the variance. >> But that would have been the option, Jason. Right.

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>> That is absolutely correct. they either had to bring it into conformity or request a variance here today. So, they've taken that option, >> but the option would have been to put the stairs on on a sterile boulevard. >> I I believe that could have accomplished what they were attempting to do. Um particularly if it's mainly aesthetic in

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nature. >> Well, they also could have this the stairwell could be internal in the building, too. It doesn't have to be on the >> outside internal. >> Yeah. Again, the staff didn't want to get involved with trying to redesign it for them. We did point out that there were other options, though.

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>> Sure. Sure. Okay. Any other questions? Um, anyone want to make a motion? I'll make a motion to approve variance 20250

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260 1002 Bayar Drive subject to the four conditions that staff is recommending. and find that the conditions for the variance are met. >> I'll second.

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>> Thank you, Jim. Thank you, Ed. Any discussion on the motion? >> Hearing none. Your vote. Jim. >> Yes. >> Ed? >> Yes. >> Don? >> Yes. >> Jane? >> Yes. >> Doug? >> Uh, no. Because of the Jason property owner. >> Okay.

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>> If I heard from them, it'd be different. >> Okay. Jip. >> Yes. >> I'm a yes. Um, so the motion uh is six to one, which will require you to go to the town council. So that'll be your next step. >> Might make a suggestion that you get a

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hold of the neighbor or let them know to get a hold of the neighbor and have them send a letter in if they're in support or whatever. >> Thank you, Jane. >> Thank you for making the effort to be here today. Yeah, good good to have somebody on the property. Uh, so Nancy, could I just ask for a motion right now

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to accept all the material held within our agenda packet? >> Yes, >> I'll move that. I'll move that. Madam Chair, >> reiterate that sometimes when matters become controversial, there's an appeal >> um without those little words in the record.

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>> We just missed the training, that's all. So moved. >> I thank you. No, you don't have to apologize. Okay. The motion is made by Jim Dunlap, seconded by Jim Bowen to accept uh as part of the record all the material contained within our agenda packet.

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>> Um any uh any discussion on the motion? Uh all those in favor? >> I. >> Anyone opposed? Okay, that's disposed of. Next variance V 20260005621531 Wijon Terrace. This is a a resolution of

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the Fort Myers Beach Local Planning Agency approving approving with conditions or denying variance 202600056 which is requesting a variance from land development section 34-638D3C um I I three three Iowa whatever the

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heck that is to reduce the required 25 ft water body setback by 8.97 ft and allow a 16.03 ft water body setback for a non-roofed swimming pool for an existing single family residence in the residential

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conservation uh zoning district for the property located at 21531 Wijon Terrace generally referred to as strap number 344624 W1 00001.001B

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001B in Fort Myers Beach and providing further clarifications is necessary, providing for conflicts of loss, scrier's errors, severability, and providing for an effective date. Um, exparte, Don, >> none. >> Ed,

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>> no. None. >> Jim, >> none. >> Jane, >> none. >> Doug, >> no ma'am. >> Jim, >> none. >> I have none as well. Jason's >> good morning again. Jason Smallley, senior planner with the town. Uh before you today is a request for a variance to

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reduce the setbacks for a inground pool. This would be proposed to be an uncovered inground pool. Um this lot is particularly unique in that it sits on the bay and many of the bay lots uh do

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not have seaw walls. In fact, seaw walls are generally new seaw walls are generally prohibited by code on both the bay and the Gulf side. Um so before you today is a request for an existing lot with a nonsewalled

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um rear lot which causes them to set setbacks not from an established seaw wall but from the meandering mean high water line in that rear portion of the lot. Um so the code generally would require 25 ft setback from this

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meandering line. Um and whereas a seaw wall a seawald lot would have much much more reduced setbacks for an ingground pool. So the request today is to is to fit it onto this nonsewalled existing lot. Um, and they're what they're

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requesting is to reduce the 25- ft water body set back by 8.97 ft and provide a uh set a new setback of 16.03 ft to accommodate the design of the pool that the customer wishes. Um, I believe

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that the applicant's uh representative is here today. Uh, but staff is here for any questions or or concerns you may have. Uh staff, by the way, is uh recommending a um an approval with conditions based largely on the fact

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that it's nonsewalled, a meandering line, and a relatively small lot um that's been carved out in that area. >> Thank you, Jason. Questions for Jason? >> I've got one. Go ahead. >> Um >> so if they had a seaw wall, what is our

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setback in town if they if they had a seaw wall? So it could be reduced down to a minimum of 5 ft from the from the seaw wall if this were a fully seaw um inground pool. But simply because they have no seaw wall back there, the

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measurements have to be made from the mean high water line which meanders across the property, not in a straight line. So, you may have areas of the lot that have seemingly enough uh depth to put a pool of a of a regular size in there, but as you go down the property

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line, those depths fluctuate quite quite a lot depending on how far the mean high water line was mapped into their property line because you have to provide 25 foot setback from all points along that mean high water line once it's determined.

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>> Jason, we've had this before. Is the um difference between the seaw wall and high water line um a town code issue or is it a state issue? >> Uh I can't speak to state statutes on that, but I can speak to the towns codes. The town's codes specifically

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say that you must measure from a delineated mean high water line. >> And you determine the mean high water line from what source? Um so it's based on a survey uh stamp survey that we have received uh from the applicant and they

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using standard uh state um okay >> measurements we'll go ahead and establish that mean high water line for that. >> Thanks Jason. >> Other questions for staff? >> Don anything? >> Okay. Thank you Jason. Is the applicant

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here? Thank you for being here today. >> Good morning. >> Good morning. Tell us your name. So, >> my name is Ron Walsh. I'm actually here to represent Cara Stewart who was taking care of everything. She had knee surgery. >> She had knee surgery. >> She wasn't able to make it, so I'm here in her place. >> Okay. Uh, what would you like to tell

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us? Anything about this? >> No, ma'am. >> Okay. All right. That was quick. Uh, any any any questions? Any questions for the gentleman? >> Just a couple follow-ups. >> Anybody have anything? But thank you very much for being here, sir. >> Oh, sorry.

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>> And we wish Cara a speedy recovery. Um, we'll open the public comment. Is anybody here to speak on this case? >> Okay, seeing none, uh, we'll close the public comment. Uh, any further questions, concerns, thoughts?

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I just I just think that it should be acknowledged that this is a um homeowners association and they have different rules and regulations than the rest of the island because they are a >> I don't think it is J. >> What? >> It's outside the gate. >> Say it again.

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>> It's outside the gate. I don't think >> Oh, it's outside the gates. >> Oh, I'm sorry. I will rephrase that then. >> It's outside the gate. >> Yeah. I I have one point. Can we do Can we turn Don up

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>> for once? We want We want Don to be louder. >> I'm pretty loud. >> Yeah, we know. Honey, >> while we're working on that, um, the last speaker, I understand he's a contractor. Is that correct?

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>> Okay. So, you're knowledgeable of the project. So, you have expertise on the project. >> Thank you. >> Do you want us to accept him as witness as a expert? I I would like to qualify individuals who are experts. Um >> sir, could you come back up

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>> and and let me go ahead and add the basis for that is because expert testimony is considered competent and substantial evidence. >> However, lay testimony, testimony by members of the public has qualifications to it. They must have personal knowledge

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of the information itself or they must um have the other criteria. um their testimony must be based on fact-based information. So, it's a different analysis in the event of an appeal. So, I'm just trying to dot some eyes and cross some tees.

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>> Thank you, Nancy. So, sir, can you tell us uh what you do for a living? >> I I own a company. I'm a Southwest Tropical Design. We're a pool contractor. >> You're a pool contractor. How long have you been doing that? >> Uh about half my life. >> And how many years would that be? 12.

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trick question >> for a good amount of time. >> Yes, ma'am. Your weight, too. >> Uh, and would you consider yourself an expert pool contractor? >> Yes, ma'am. >> You would? Okay. May we have a motion, please, to accept the gentleman as an expert pool contractor?

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>> There's a motion by Jane. Is there a second? >> I'll make a second. Uh, so we have a motion and a second. Any objection to that? You're officially accepted as an expert in your field here for the LPA. Thank you, sir. It was nice to have you here. >> We won't bother you again. Well, maybe.

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I don't know. Um, okay. So, um, uh, no other, um, business there. Oh, back to Don. Are have you got >> Yeah. >> Let's see. >> You guys hear me better? >> No. >> No. >> No. >> Turn him up. >> Okay, but just go ahead because we can

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hear. Oh, >> how about now? Is that any better? >> No. >> Well, the view is >> Watch. I literally stood up to the to the microphone. I just uh one thing I was just wanting to make sure there's no removal of any mangroves or vegetation

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along the uh rip wrap. >> Okay. Let's just let's just ask the pool contractor that. Sir, could you come back up? >> See, I told you you never know what's going to happen here. >> Is there Mr. Sith is asking he wants to

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be assured there's been no removal of any mangroves or rip wrap, anything like that? >> No ma'am. None at all. Um, the expert testifies that there has been n no removal. Do you want to make that a condition, Don? >> I Yeah, I think we should.

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>> Okay. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you, sir. >> Stay tuned. >> Don, you're familiar with that bay and the um I guess this is discussion. Is that okay to have? >> Yeah. um that bay and and how the um

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water is back there and how many people in the association do have pools that are closer to and things like that. So, I'm just curious if you have any concerns about that um being

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outside of the association. I I don't only because um the only concern I would have is you know erosion but I know there's been no erosion in all the years I've been around there. Okay. >> Um in fact I think there's more accretion if you

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>> you go back there in a boat. It's much much >> uh >> shallower >> more shallow now than it was before Ian. And so um I think you know it's probably pretty good. It's a little close to the rip wrap to me but um again I I think as long as uh as long as the And it's a

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natural to me the natural shoreline is is almost better sometimes. So, um yeah, I have no no concern. >> Thank you, Don. >> Okay, hearing that. Um would someone like to make a motion and include

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uh >> I'll make a motion. >> I I asked for public comment. I think I did. No. Did anybody would anybody like to say anything about this case? Okay. Closed. Um, go ahead, Doug. >> Uh, I make a motion to approve with

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conditions the three conditions established by staff plus the fourth condition that Don Sudith has recommended. Uh, no removal of mangroves if they're there or adjustments to the seaw wall, rip wrap um of uh variance

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202656 um approval with the four conditions I just described. Thank you. >> Be five now that you've added one. >> If I if I may, I I apologize. There's one clarification in there, though. Uh

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these mangrove areas do fall within their boundaries. And so my understanding is that they could apply for trimming and maintenance of those. I just want to make sure we're not putting in anything that is um across the board. They can't remove any of that. Uh

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perhaps condition is uh with state permitting. >> Right. >> Okay. Amenda what I'm calling condition four is proposed by Don >> with four conditions. >> Yeah. >> Theyought condition. Sorry, I didn't scroll down for it.

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>> Sorry. >> Um fifth condition. uh no destruction of mangroves or removal of mangroves or uh destruction or removal of rip wrap. At >> any rate, I'll second that. >> Okay, there's a motion and a second. Is

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there any discussion on that motion? >> Okay. >> Uh hearing none. Your vote. Doug >> I. >> Ed. >> I. >> Don >> I. >> Jim >> I. >> Jane >> I. >> Jim >> I. >> And I'm an I. That motion carries unanimously. Um so uh Mr. expert pool

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contractor. Uh that means that you're good to go unless somebody challenges this decision within the next 10 days, in which case you'll have to go before the town council. All right. >> Thank you, sir, for being here. Okay. Uh anybody want to take a break? >> Yeah. >> Yeah.

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>> Did you say yes? >> Yes, sir. >> Yes. Yes, we would. We're going to take a five minute break before we move on to the next case. you Don, you're there. All right. Um, thank you all for your patience there.

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Uh, our next item is um is a development agreement. This is ordinance 2602 DA20250277 for 6890 EO Boulevard. This is the old Windham Hotel. This is an ordinance of the town of Fort Myers Beach, Florida,

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approving or denying home rule development agreement for a property located at 6890 Eststero Boulevard, Fort Myers Beach, Florida. Strap numbers 034724 W1000000003 0010

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owned by FMBH LLC as authorized by section 2100 of the Towns Land Development Code and in compliance with the procedures for application and approval of development agreements with two phases and seven deviations for the

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purpose of redevelopment of the property to allow a restaurant entertainment commercial parking and recreational area. providing for terms and conditions, including but not limited to the identification of the proposed use

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of the property, a finding of consistency with the town of Fort Myers Beach comprehensive plan, commitments and development obligations, deviations needed for development, providing for other clarifications as necessary, providing for conflicts of loss,

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scrivener's errors, severability, and providing for an effective date. So, we'll ask for exparte first. Uh, Don, >> I met with the neighborhood company, Pat. And, uh, fine. >> Your sound is better, Don. Uh,

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>> okay. >> Thank you. How about you, Ed? >> I also met with the neighborhood company and received many emails, uh, including a bunch this morning. >> Thank you, Ed. Ed, Jim,

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>> my expire is similar to Ed's met with the neighborhood company and we've had numerous emails both in uh opposition and in support of >> Thank you, Jane. >> I can ditto his comments.

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>> Okay. Thank you. Uh Doug, >> yes, I met with uh Pat Vaness and their attorney uh here um where he gave me an overview of the project and the variances they're requesting. Also, as the others uh received quite a bit of

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email uh through uh Amy and I think about half in favor and half opposed. >> Thank you, Doug. Jim >> kind of similar to what's been said to

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this point. Only additional one I had is um several residence interactions knowing this was coming up today. Those are more extemporaneous but revolve the conversations revolve specifically around the temporary nature of what they believe that the

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application of the structure is about. Uh that may have been a carryover from before but it's still a concern that was expressed last couple days. Other than that, that's it. Mhm. Uh so uh as on top of what everyone else has said because we've all received the emails, um I had

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uh several conversations most recently on Friday the 12th with Craig and Kathy um uh loose uh at Cresciente and their concerns were traffic and parking and noise. Um the um Sharon at Santini Plaza

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who's the property manager is very concerned about overflow parking into the Santini Plaza. And I did meet with Pat Vaness and John um on the 10th uh as well as previously at Badass Coffee on

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April 3rd um who gave me an overview of everything. So uh madam chair >> and lots of wait lots of people in my store who I don't know just telling me what they think about all of this. >> So madam chair for this particular item it appears that there has been um

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significant or more um exparte conversations rather than in our typical um land use application. So, I think it would be appropriate to go ahead and ask the applicant if they wanted to ask any questions regarding the disclosures that

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have been made. And also, I'd like to assure that you have received a copy of the emails that have been referenced. >> Yes, Megan Strahorn for the record, uh, attorney for the applicant. I have no follow-up questions based on the disclosures and we have been receiving emails from the town clerk from the

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public >> as late as this morning. >> Megan trouble hearing. Ye. Yes, ma'am. We did receive a few this morning as well, Madam Chair. >> Don, what did you say? >> I'm having trouble hearing that she may have not been in front of the mic. I'm sure I'll hear back. >> I can speak louder.

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I >> If I may jump in with regards to exparte. Um, just want to make sure that everybody received the two letters from the adjacent condo associations. Um, we have a copy of that letter if you

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didn't get it. It's in our PowerPoint. >> Is that from Mr. Greer? >> It comes It comes from the association president. It's on letterhead. Uh there are 180 units in that property. So just keep that in mind. You may have received a

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bunch of individual emails, but this one letter is an official letter from 100 units, 180 units. on average about two people per unit. And right across the street, Eststerero Cove, also you received an email from the president. In

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his email, he also says, coincidentally, that they represent 180 units. Again, um probably two people per unit. That's 360 units that fully support this project.

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>> Thank you, Pat. Um okay. Uh, we also have today, so do Pat, do you have any experts that are going to testify today or Megan, any experts that are going to testify today that have not already been qualified with us? >> No, we do not.

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>> Okay. Um, we have uh been asked to give intervenor status uh to a group. We need to uh vote to accept that or not accept that and allocate time. Max, did you want to come up? Max Forgi uh with Fory Planning

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Services. Uh on behalf of Larry Gillian, we we requested 30 minutes. Um I'm sure that Larry and I can cover what we have to say in 15 minutes at this time. Uh so

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in in lie of 30 you're requesting 15 minutes >> at Yeah, we want to reserve the 30 for uh the town council when that time is necessary but 15 minutes will be fine for >> Well, that's a separate hearing. So unless do they need to ask for the same thing here as they do for the town

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council? >> No, they can they can request whatever they choose. Um, however, could you state for the record the basis for claiming intervenor status? >> Uh, in the letter which we sent you, Mr. Galen and two of his neighbors who live

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right next to where this uh will take place, they are more affected than other parties uh would be than uh as the statute requires. So, um, so could we have a motion, please,

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uh, to accept this request for intervenor status? Megan, you're standing up. Are you objecting to this? >> I just need to put a few go right ahead >> on the record. Yes. Again, Megan Strahorn for the applicant. I just want to point out that the um, in reviewing the letter for intervenor status, it is

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citing to Florida statute section uh, 163215. >> Apologies. Is there any way we can get the microphone? >> Can you How about that? Is that better? My apologies everyone. It is citing to Florida statute section 1633215 and under that statute that is really

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more uh pertinent for claiming standing in circuit court and it also limits the scope of the items which are relevant that is items which materially alter the use density intensity uh which would be inconsistent with a comprehensive plan. So number one, for purpose of the

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record, we would be objecting to the intervenor status. We would be requesting a limitation of time. Uh and in the event that you all grant it, uh we would be asking to make sure that it is limited in scope to those matters set forth in Florida statute section 163215.

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>> Nancy, do you want to comment on that? >> Well, I believe the statute does does state that. Um, Megan, could you quickly re repeat the four areas that you would like the testimony limited to? >> Yes, ma'am. And let me pull out the

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statute. It is materially alters, and this is section I can I did not bring extras, but Nancy, I do have it in front of me if you would like for me to hand it to you. >> Yep. No, if you could just for the record restate. >> Absolutely. Uh, that materially alters the use or density or intensity of use on a particular piece of property,

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rendering it not consistent with the comprehensive plan. >> Okay. And then one of the requirements for the development agreement itself is to make sure that it is consistent with the comp plan, right? >> Yes, ma'am. >> Okay.

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>> Um so I I mean she set forth some um you know statutory sections. Um I don't necessarily disagree. Um however, Mr. Flority has um has provided testimony in response to those. Do you want to add

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anything that >> Fory I'm sorry. Would you like to add anything to those comments that were made? >> No, thank you. >> Okay. >> Okay. Um, Miss Strahorn did not indicate if she was objecting to the 15 minutes that they're asking for.

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>> I think uh 15 minutes is much more reasonable for this request than 30. I will I will defer it to you all. >> Megan, out of curiosity, how long is your presentation? >> I'll defer to Pat on that one. How quickly can you uh >> Yeah,

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>> good luck. >> How long do you think it is, Ben? >> Uh it's going to be a good 30 minutes, if not more. Um obviously with an intervenor uh we have to to set a really good record. >> Uh because as far as we know, this could go

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>> Sure. >> Yes. >> somewhere else afterwards. >> Okay. Okay. May I have a motion, please, to accept Mr. for he and his clients as given intervenor status with a time limit for their presentation here today of 15 minutes.

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>> So moved. >> May I ask one follow-up clarify? >> Wait, hold on, Megan. We're in the middle of a motion. >> My apologies. Yes, madam chair. Second. >> There's a motion in a second. Uh I'll I'll let you say something now during this discuss. Did it have something to do with the intervenor status?

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>> It it does. I just wanted to clarify the individuals that he was representing. um if it is the same that was contained in the June 12th letter or if there were additional that's all I think he mentioned it was just the individuals in the letter >> correct that is what you mentioned Mr. for you. Okay, very good. So, there is a

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motion and a second and uh is there any objection to this motion? Uh hearing none, uh the motion carries unanimously and you're granted intervenor status with 15 minutes of time. So, thank you. Um okay, so we'll start this now with

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just a brief introduction by Jason and uh and then we'll move on to the applicant. >> Me first, huh? Well, just just an intro. Just >> do I get 30 minutes? >> You get No, I get 30 minutes. >> It's an intro, Jason. An intro. >> It's not about you, Jason.

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>> I don't want 30 minutes. I do not want 30 minutes. Uh, yes. I'll just do a brief intro so we can get to the farm. Um, the application before you for development agreement on the property commonly known as the Windom property or the Windom property, excuse me. Um, there's a couple phases that are in your

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packet. Uh, as was mentioned in the introduction by the chair. Uh the phase one, well, there's an open uh open a restaurant and entertainment venue with recreational uses um in order to expedite the openings venue. Uh temporary mobile vending trailers will be utilized to comply with FEMA and

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Florida building code flood regulations per the applicant. The request includes a phase two and there's two site plans included in your packet that show those two differences between those two phases. Uh the phase two will require design, peritting and construction of a

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wave dis dissipation wall uh combined with flood map revisions to change the property's flood zone from VE to AE. Uh map the map change would allow for construction of permanent dry floodproof structures and replace and eliminate the use of temporary trailers. Uh, additionally, the applicant requests

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that the recreation uses will be then expanded to include pool and lazy river. And obviously that we can go to some details of those two phases. Uh, the the application also includes and they're noted on the on the site plans and as

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part of the request that there's additional uses that are allowed currently under the uh commercial or yes, commercial resort CR zoning district, which is what the property currently is designated as. Um, as I forgot to mention, uh, it's also,

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uh, where' it go here? So, um, the application also includes an area for COP, uh, which does expand in across into the EC zoning district, a small portion. These, there's a a notes page after each of your site plans if you're looking at those that have descriptions of square footages and areas and

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buildings and that sort. Um, there's a little bit there's a maximum of some of those. So that tells me that the structure will probably be anywhere between say 3,000 and 5,000. They don't know exactly yet because that hasn't been designed. The optant has also included a list of deviations. Uh some

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of those deviations are applicable to phase one. Uh some of them are are requested applicable to phase two. Uh we have included a condition recommended a condition to you that uh phase one deviations go away specifically. uh and part of that is because there may be

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something that in the temporary nature of phase one is appropriate but may not be appropriate for more permanent use later on. Uh the way that this is structured in the application the applicant is and he can speak more to this obviously but their attempt to preserve some uses that are part of the

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CR we do have the two site plans for the two phases. There could be additional phases in the future or revisions to those phases. All of those would have to come back through the process to do that. Um, but it is this process that would also just like if we do a PUD or PD zoning district, sometimes they ask

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for uses that are not on the site plan. It's a very similar component. In the staff report, there's a section of consistency with the comprehensive plan. Uh, that does include the applicants responses and their uh opinions of consistency with many of these uh goals, objectives, and policies that they

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presented. >> Jason, just an introduction today and then you you'll have another opportunity for >> Okay. and and there are some staff sections that are not uh a response and part of that is uh due to the nature of the DA um and our role in the DA versus

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the difference with a a PD as an example. >> Um >> good. >> So that's uh yeah. So if you have any questions about the deviations or anything else, I'd be happy to um >> we'll come back to you. >> Okay. >> Okay. Um Megan or Patrick, whichever

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one. >> Good morning, everyone. >> Good morning. >> Let's see. How do I work this slideshow? >> Um, Eric, >> you kind of have to step behind the wall. >> There we go. >> There you go. There we go. Okay. >> Okay. I'll figure it

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>> take the mic off and then >> Oh, get to walk around. This is going to be very dangerous. >> Don't get carried away, Megan. >> Again, for the record, I'm Megan Strahorn, attorney for the applicant and property owner. We are here for a development agreement request for the

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property that is formerly known as the Windom Holiday Inn. Um, and I will go ahead and Oh, >> introduce the team. >> Next. >> There we go. >> There we go. Okay. Let me introduce the team. We have John

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Callas as uh owner representation. We have myself. There is uh Ted Trish of TR transportation. However, he was unable to attend today. So, uh he will be in attendance for the town council meetings as well as uh Pat Vaness who has previously been sworn in as an expert

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witness, but if you would like for him to go through his curriculum veto for you, uh I'm sure he would be happy to do so. >> Oh, we've heard about many times. I >> was going to say many times. I'll get it as soon.

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>> I think if you say next >> next that that might be the easier approach. My apologies. >> Again, this is a development agreement. Nancy always does a fabulous job of explaining uh and a home rule development agreement at that. Nancy always does a fabulous job of explaining

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quasi judicial um proceedings. So, this is quasi judicial in nature. This is not judicial. So, you're not going to be seeing me standing up to objecting to any of the things that the intervenors are saying. When we come back for rebuttal, we will I will point out um anything that I think is irrelevant or

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what is relevant for this matter. This is again a home rural development agreement. So, when you're reviewing it, you're looking to see if it is consistent with the comprehensive plan, if it's consistent with the land development code. This application was submitted prior before the town um

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adopted the new comprehensive plan. So, when you're reviewing the the backup the material, you're going to see um notices of of both the old as well as the new comprehensive plan. Um however, it should be really evaluated under the 2045 uh town plan.

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This will maintain the underlying uh commercial resort zoning and this is a development agreement and historically the development agreements that you all have um have seen uh generally are a much larger scale than this. You will

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not be seeing a commercial resort being presented today. The purpose of this development agreement is really to make sure that this property can be used as soon as possible. Now, this process started, I'm going to say roughly about 10 months ago with an attempt to do an

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emergency temporary permits to get a mobile restaurant on site. That process was diverted. So, we're no longer doing the emergency temporary permits anymore. And now we've submitted for the development agreement, which is in um

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two phases, which I will get into. This is a contractual agreement between the town and the property owner with certain conditions and uses and requirements. Um, and again, all of the evidence that will be presented today will be providing the competent and substantial

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evidence that that is required to find that the development agreement is consistent with the comprehensive plan as well as the land development code. Can we go next? That that is much easier than trying to find the the clicker. Again, this is a

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two-phased approach. And so, there are a couple of things that I do want to point out before I let Pat um get into the details of the agreement. This is a two-phed approach. When we are I've seen several of the public comments and this

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term of um an interim use. I want to make it clear that this development agreement could very well be permanent. That's not the ideal solution of course but the development agreement itself is not interimm phase one is what I kind of

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call the um permitting phase that could be the interimm phase. So the phase one is more of a temporary nature in the sense that there is up to six trailers providing for a mobile restaurant, one restaurant contained in a pole barn or a

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tiki tiki barn on site as well as accessorary parking. Uh there will be bathrooms as well in the trailer. Once the wave when fa phase one is operational, the property owner will be going in to obtain permits for a wave

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dissipation wall. Once that is obtained, once the map is, you know, revised, then phase two can be developed, which makes a permanent restaurant, a permanent tiki, tiki barn, very similar to what has been in existence there for many

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years. As well as the parking, which is accessory, there'll be a recreational area, lazy river, a pool, and then also phase two, there is an additional parking area, which I would like to also point out, which is a joint shared parking. It will be private. It will be

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gated. It will be locked. And it will only be through valet only use uh for the southern section. There are concerns that I've heard that this is going to be a public beach parking lot. Um that is

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not the case. This will be paid the same exact way that it has been as it was being operated by the Windom. You will pay to park. You can take your ticket to the bar to get validated. Um, and it that is the purpose of the primary

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parking for this project. And I think with that I will turn it over to Pat to continue. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Good morning. For the record, my name is Patrick Vaness. I'm a certified planner

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with the neighborhood company. And before we get started, I just want to say one thing. >> Don't do it. Don't do it. >> I want to say, wow, what >> sports >> a sports weekend did we get? >> We had the NBA finals, we had the

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Stanley Cup, and we had a decisive win by the US men's soccer team at the World Cup. Amazing weekend. I could discuss it all day long, but I I know we have two cases that we have to dispense with first. So, we'll go through those and

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then we can chat about sports afterwards. >> So, you're feeling happy to >> Yes. Okay. >> But if you can further indulge me, I do have something I want to share with you. And I want to tell you how I'm feeling today. And uh how I'm feeling today is

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cautiously optimistic. And the reason I'm optimistic is today I get to represent two great projects. >> Consciously or cautiously? >> Cautiously. >> Cautiously. Okay. >> I'm optimistic because I get to represent two great projects. I think these projects uh represent uh

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redevelopment that we need on this island. Um they are infill projects. They are in the right locations. uh they are reasonable requests at a scale that makes sense that fits within the context and fits within the fabric

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of Fort Myers Beach. Uh also um we have two applicants for each of those projects that are local with a proven track record and uh demonstrated record that they are good neighbors, good stewards of Fort Myers Beach and have

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gotten along with their uh neighbors. So, um, with that said, and and on top of that, both of those parties are funded and ready to go and as soon as they get their approvals, they are ready to break ground and move forward. And,

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uh, from what I'm hearing, that's what we want more than anything else now is we actually want to see shovels in the ground and projects moving forward. Um, so with that said, I am going to jump uh into the Windom presentation.

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Um, for those that have been on the beach as long as I have, we call it the former Windom, but the former Holiday Inn. Also, that property was first uh developed in 1969.

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Um, it was a classic 1960s era beachfront motor coach in. Um, and it featured amenities like shuffle board, uh, tennis courts, and jet ski rentals. Uh, the applicant, uh, the

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Pullman family represented by John Callus here today. They've owned that property for over 25 years. Um they um you know Bert the uh senior of the family was there on a regular basis got

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to know all his neighbors and u was loved u by many people on this island. Um so on site what you had there before was a 103 unit uh hotel. There was also a sit-down restaurant near the lobby

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near the front of the hotel. And in the back there was a large tiki bar uh with food also serviced that was more like the bar food in the back that was close to the beach. Um in the middle of the property we had a large pool. We had a

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pool deck. Uh we had an entertainment uh area for live bands that uh were there throughout season. And uh what's important to note also is the Windham and the Holiday and always

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embrace the locals, always embrace the residents. You could go there, you could use the pool, you could have some drinks at the bar and they catered to both both their hotel guests and to uh their neighbors and local residents. And that

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created a a very inviting uh family atmosphere. Uh it was a fun hangout for a lot of residents and especially a great hangout for surrounding property condo owners and people on the south end of the island. Um some of the additional

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uses that were there uh included water sports operators vendors for jet skis parasailing and beach uh chair rentals. Uh so what you'll see through this presentation is what we're trying to do is we're just trying to replace and

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reestablish those uses that already existed and that were there and coexisted very well with their neighbors for decades. Uh so we're asking for those uses except for the hotel use at this time.

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So, uh, if you could move to the next slide. Um, what we have here is an aerial of, uh, the property pre-Ean. As you can see, three buildings surrounded by parking. I want to point out that there

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was a significant amount of parking for that property. Uh, there were 195 established parking parking spots. But if you look on the upper left corner, they used to be the former tennis courts. And in season when it was busy,

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they would valley that area and they could easily fit uh more than 200 vehicles on this site. So, um I think at this point I need to give you a little context of how we got

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here. Um just a little correction of what Megan said is we started the process about 10 12 months ago. We initially came in with a development agreement and the development agreement that was submitted

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u was different than what you have before you today. It has been modified and the reason it's been modified is um because of the the intent of trying to

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get this use and this restaurant entertainment venue opened as soon as possible. So soon after the storm, uh John entered into an agreement with the town and various state agencies for

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renting the property for recovery uh measures. Um they got their um affairs in order also just like we did as residents. We had to figure out what we were going to do with our properties. Uh they decided that they wanted to keep

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that property in the family. It was a great family asset. they did not want to let go of it. Uh so John set out on the journey for two years where he tried to speak to every major hotel brand uh and every major hotel developer

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um in Florida and the idea was to find a joint venture an equity partner to build back the resort. Uh unfortunately well the the the there was interest in the property. uh there were people that

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would have been interested in buying it. However, they did not want a partner. Uh they wanted to buy it outright and that did not go for the family. Family wanted to to maintain ownership. So at that point, that's when uh John came to us

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and the idea was well, we know long-term probably the highest and best use is still a hotel, but we want to move forward with what we can. Uh, at this point, we want to bring back that vibe. We want to bring back those uses that people love. We know there's a need for

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a restaurant. We know there's a need for entertainment venues on the south end. And we want to do this as quickly as possible. So, we first submitted a development agreement that did call for temporary uses and did call for a U

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parking lot that would be open to the public for beach access. Uh we have since revised that and the reason why things got revised is the wave dissipation wall came into play. It's

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something that John evaluated. It makes sense. He wants to put that investment in. And by having that wave dissipation wall and being able to change our FEMA flood zone from a Vzone to an AE zone, uh that allows uh John to build uh

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atgrade permanent structures for long term into the future. So, what you see in phase two is a large pool lazy river um and the possibility of putting a 5,000 square foot uh restaurant under

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the existing pole barn that will be erected in phase one and um that also allows the removal of all the trailers from the site. So we are clearly requesting a use that once approved is

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going to pro be approved in perpetuity. It is not temporary. Um and it might be there for a very long time. If at some point they do want to develop a full resort, uh it is CR zoning and those

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uses, we want to retain the right to those uses, but just as Jason mentioned like a PD, sometimes you have more uses than what your master concept plan allows. Your site plans and your packages is what we are committing to.

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That's what we would be allowed to develop on site. If ever we wanted the hotel component, we would have to amend the development agreement, come back to public hearing, or we would have to extinguish it and come back in with the CPD. So, I hope that clarifies kind of

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how we got here and where we stand. So, moving forward, next slide, please. Next slide. Um, so just some basic property details.

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This is one of the largest properties on Fort Myers Beach at 11.2 acres. It stems from Eterero all the way to the Gulf. Uh, and as you know, this

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is a very wide beach area. So, we've got 11.2 acres. Of that 11.2, uh, 3.8 8 acres is developable uh meaning that is it is landlordward of the coastal um construction setback

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line. Um as Megan mentioned we submitted under the old comp plan uh during the review period the new comp plan was approved. We are now within the medium residential future land use category and

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the Santini Marina mixeduse district. Um, our zoning was and remains CR commercial Resort and the surrounding uses. To the north of us, we have the Sandra Condominium. To the south, we

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have Sand Caper. To the east, we have the Sterile Cove. And to the west, we have the Gulf. Next slide, please. And this is just an aerial depicting the property. What you see in yellow is the

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full extent of those 11.2 acres. Next slide, please. And as mentioned, the uh development area is uh 3.8 8 acres and um follows

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the uh 1978 CCCL. Okay, next slide please. Um so when it comes to um what we are proposing the uses the location again we are asking to put back

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uses that already existed. Uh, not only were they existing uses for decades, but in our comp plan in in the old comp plan and reiterated and actually probably emphasized even more in the new

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comp plan. This is meant to be a mixeduse uh center. Uh this is where our the mix the mixu centers uh on this island is where we uh allow for the tallest

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buildings for the greatest density and intensity. And also when it when we talk about the Santini Village mixeduse district, um it calls for uh a vision of um you know providing a redevelopment

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opportunity with more entertainment uh tourist and neighborhood commercial uses and that is exactly what we are providing. Um it also calls the Santini Mixuse District the southern gateway to

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the island. And um as you know um we while we are one unified island, we have different neighborhoods in my mind and different characteristics u on the south end versus the north end.

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This is the u the focal point of the south end and what is being proposed is very complimentary to Santini to CVS and the other commercial uses in the marina that is close by. Um so when it comes to

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the uses and the location also we are connecting to sidewalks. Um, this is a highly uh pedestrian and uh bike friendly area. We have thousands of condos in very close vicinity. Uh,

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people can easily walk to this venue, but there was always a pathway to get to the beach and as we move forward, we will maintain that pathway for the public. Um, we will also be providing uh bathrooms that will be accessible to the

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public. Uh the intent is still to draw as many possible to people to this venue. Um we want people to um park at the venue, visit the venue, spend dollars at the uh restaurant and tiki

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bar. Uh however, we see it as a public benefit to maintain that beach access. Um next two slides, please. Okay, there you go. Um, so some of the questions are, you know, when you refer

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to a pole barn, not very sexy. Um, we just wanted to to to be uh very clear into what is going to be built there. It's going to be a metal steel structure. Uh, that's what it was previously. Okay. So, it looks like a

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tiki. It functions as a tiki. It could be decorated. The columns can be wrapped with bamboo, with wood, and you can give it a very beach um coastal vibe. >> Patrick can be or will be. >> It will be. >> Okay.

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>> It will be. Um so, and and this is is what existed there. And as you can see, those were metal columns. Next slide, please. Um and those were wrapped and they were made to uh look like a tiki hut. Uh next slide, please.

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So this is another picture of what existed there. Again the idea is to bring back that vibe, bring back that atmosphere and uh even if we use the words pole barn, it is going to look like a TV barn.

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Okay. Um next slide please. Um I I think also for people to understand the concept uh one of the closest um examples that we have in in Fort Myers is um backyard social. So if some of you

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have got the backyard social, it's a large pole barn um heavily decorated. Obviously it's not going to look like this. Ours is going to look like a a tiki hut, but the size will be similar. And what they have over there is they have multiple food trucks. Again, we are

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not asking for multiple food trucks. This is one restaurant. It's just in the interim in the first phase, it's going to happen to be run out of uh trailers just because we want to expedite the process. We want to get this uh project up and running for next season. And in

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the second phase, all those trailers go away and the restaurant is a permanent restaurant. So, uh, I've got a few pictures of what this looks like. So, what I want to show is even though a pole barn in the first phase, it'll be completely open. In the second phase,

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once the FEMA mapped provision occurs, we can enclose portions of it. So, what you see here is you see one side of the pole barn which has been enclosed. And if we look at the next pictures on the next slide, um, it just shows you how

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um, these these structures can be decorated. You can make them look any way you want given uh different themes. But you see how a portion of that pole barn has a wall and that's enclosed. So similarly, our restaurant would be

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enclosed, but all the seating and the bar area would be in the open portion of the pole bar. So next slide. Um just another view of of what they've done over there uh at Backyard Social. It'll be a different theme, but it'll be very

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well decorated and appointed. So, um, in this next slide, this is the site plan that is part of your development agreement. This is regulatory in nature and shows you the various uses being asked, the various sizes, the various

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areas. So what you have in orange is an area that will be uh all on pavers on um decking type of pavers. Um and you see the delineation for that

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rectangle box that is the tiki uh bullbar. Um and the dimensions are 80 by 120. Um, the little small rectangles are the various trailers that will be used.

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Again, I think if it was up to John, we would be using much bigger trailers. However, FEMA tells us we have to have smaller trailers that can be pulled by a light duty truck. That's why we have multiple trailers. We have one for the kitchen, we have one for the bar, we

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have two for the bathrooms, we have dry storage, freezer, cooler. Um, but that will allow the restaurant to function and to be up and running this season. The area in yellow is uh the wreck area.

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Uh, that's most likely going to be sand and landscaped. Um, what this area is going to allow is uh recreational uses such as uh botchi ball, cornhole, uh outdoor seating areas. You do have a

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little area that juts out um past the coastal construction line. Um that was if you recall there was a a little area right by the beach that was roped off that existed previously. They had obtained a special exception for that. We are keeping the exact same dimensions

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30x 122. We are not asking for anything uh more than what was there previously. Uh this is going to be uh there's going to be no structure in there, just seating area, passive uses. It'll be completely cordoned off. Also, >> was that COP covered before?

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>> Uh yes, that was covered by COP. I just want to point out also the total area for COP it it goes from about 31,000 phase 1 to 32,000 uh 33,000 in phase 2.

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Um, prior uh to Ian, the coop for the Windham was 31,000 ft². So, we are asking for a coop and outdoor uh wreck entertainment area very similar to what

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existed previously. Um, another important thing to point out is the parking that you see here is completely required by code. Uh this is if we look at the entire outdoor seating area and

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we apply code regulations um we have uh the required parking for that restaurant we have an excess of about 19 spots. Um so this is accessory to the primary use required by code.

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Um we have as mentioned the development agreement contains seven deviations. In phase one six of those deviations apply uh and in phase two as we put in the

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more permanent structures many of those go away and we are left with four uh deviations. Um, I can walk through those one by one if you'd like, but if I get a nod to

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move forward a little quicker, I can do so. So, would you like me to go through those deviations? They're in your packet. I think they're fully explained, justified uh in in your packet. >> Would anybody like uh Mr. Vaness to go

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through the deviations one by one? >> Why don't you keep going? If we have questions, we'll raise them. Uh ju just as a uh generalization, a lot of those deviations are associated with the um first phase. And in the

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first phase, the parking lot since it's going to get torn up and more improvements are going to come in in phase two. We are asking for deviations associated with uh landscape islands and some of the plantings and how we delineate the parking spots. We are

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going to be using uh rope and bulard system where the ropes are painted white for every spot. Um and as phase 2 comes in, we are going to use the proper uh parking blocks and we are going to get more landscaping so some of those

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deviations go away as part of phase two. >> Are there any material issues, Patrick? If we make adjustments on phase one that would impede phase two. Can can you run that by again? >> I I I want I didn't understand we >> if we have if we make any substantial

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changes to an individual phase particularly one. >> Yes. >> Do you have to do anything different on phase two because it just like a holding pattern for phase one for phase two they're not interdependent of each other on structures deviation approvals etc. >> Uh

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some of the site issues I think there's flexibility. Um the tiki barn the main structure yeah >> is going to go in as part of phase one and um you know in in phase two that's where we are contingent and dependent on

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>> no the FEMA I understand that it's making sure the conversations we have about one I don't see anything that's overlapping into two had we made a change two wouldn't be expedited impossible I'll make sure we don't have an unintended consequence of making a change that does something for

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expediting the wave wall and the phase two development. A lot of my question is going to be around timing today. >> Okay. >> And so make sure that you point out anything if you're planting or putting something in that's more permanent on behalf of phase two in phase one. Just let me know that if we touch on that. >> Okay.

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>> I have a question. >> Yes. >> So in phase two that will eliminate the trailers? >> Yes. >> Because I couldn't see a way for them to get out over the pool. >> Yeah. Well, the the area uh where we've got the pavers will have mountable

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curbs, so easy in, easy out. And when it comes to some of the landscaping that we are putting um close to that uh orange area to shield the uses, uh anything that we put there would be by by the

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trailers would be move movable. and we're going to keep the permanent uh shrubbery away from those areas that they they need to get in and out. Um >> so what what would be the time period if

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uh that the restaurant would have to be shut down to do phase two? >> So I I think John has not completely worked out those issues. However, the pole barn

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will be there and the pole barn is the main structure. Uh, obviously when you start building a lazy river and a pool and start putting in uh a permanent restaurant, uh there's going to have to be sometimes that they're shut down. I

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think though as much as possible and as much as feasible he he'll he'll ask for ways to uh keep using the trailers and keep that restaurant use open. Um obviously there there might be some

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shutdown at some point or or maybe the the u the restaurant is is in another part of the parking lot during that construction for phase two. Okay. >> Um, with regards to deviations, uh,

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staff has reviewed our deviations. Um, I have seen no objections really, uh, from staff on those. Um, Mr. Dunlap brought up the timing of the phases. Uh our development agreement provides

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um a sequence and a commitment for when we start the permitting and once one phase is approved or one permit we have a limited time frame to go for the next one. So we can't guarantee how quickly

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the agencies will review and provide approval. So we can't give you an exact time frame for phase two, but we have a very clear delineation of what that sequence is with time limits. Staff has identified in their staff report uh what

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the code says when it comes to development orders and the time frames. I think what they've got in there is actually more generous than what we were proposing. We were proposing a more expedited process. Um so we'll be happy to talk about that. Um what I'll do now

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is I will go on to um the phase two site plan which is three four slides down the road. >> Pat, >> there you go. >> Um you made comment in your discussion that you're trying to expedite things to

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be open for next season. Are you talking this fall or are you talking 2027? the we're I this fall and I think they're going to have to work very quickly. Nice thing is they've done a bunch of work

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when it comes to the infrastructure on site. They have gone in there and came all the utilities. Uh they cleaned out so there's existing water, existing sewer, everything is ready as soon as they have approval. they can finalize

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the site, put up the pole bond and um October, November time frame should hope ideally, fingers crossed, >> they can be up in business. Um so this is phase two. Uh the biggest changes associated with phase two as you

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can see is uh the lazy river and the pool. Um, this is a little conceptual. I apologize. This, uh, is more of a engineers rendering of what this will look like. Most likely the lazy river

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will be a little sineuous and will not be as linear as it is, but um, again, we keep we keep the same uses there. Um, restaurant under the bull barn. Uh the area in or orange is restaurant, bar

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area, entertainment area. All entertainment and live entertainment would be within the pole barn and any sound would be uh projected towards the golf, not the adjacent properties. And just as they've always done at the

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Windom and um the Holiday Inn, they are self-imposing uh time limits. At 9:00, all music shuts down. People are ushered out by 9:30. Uh all operations cease. If people want to

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keep having fun, they can go across the street and go to Santini at some of those venues. So again, we see it as complimentary, consistent with what was there before. Um the other big change other than the um lazy river and pool is the parking

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area that you see there uh in in gray. This is the area where we are asking for the ability to do joint parking. Um that area would be completely gated separate

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with u separate uh gate to the area. it would be restricted and that would be an area where um property owner can enter into joint parking agreements with other venues. Perfect example that comes to mind is we

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have beach theater not too far away. As part of their approval, they had to demonstrate that they would have uh a joint parking and off-site parking. Um, in for now, the Dolphin in property that

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they also own would be that off-site parking space. Uh, however, if they were to sell that, they need to find another spot. This would be a perfect example where they could enter into that agreement in the evenings, they could park there. Also for hotels that have

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obtained parking reductions, we would allow valley parking only and we would allow overnight parking. Again, secure area. Those cars are not going to be driven by the owners. There's not going to be back and forth. It'll be valet

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only. Um, we think this is a great idea. This provides a economic use of the property for the owner, but also it's a private sector entity providing a solution to some of the parking challenges we have on the island. Um

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there's been concern brought up with many other cases that we are granting uh parking reductions, deviations. Uh but this is a a perfect example. Here's a solution. Here's what can be done. you can have joint parking and the valleys

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can go back and forth and uh utilize this space. Um so uh as mentioned uh as we go into phase two you'll see in the parking areas more landscape by islands

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uh we uh comply with most of the code. I do want to point out one of the deviations is instead of putting asphalt in that entire area, we want to ask for the ability to use crushed shell or rock. Uh that creates a lot more pvious

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area. I think that's definitely a benefit. It doesn't create that heat island also from a big sea of asphalt. Um staff also pointed out in the staff report that there was no water management on site previously. As you

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can see, we have water management identified there. And as part of this process, as we go through the development order process, uh the engineers are also going to have to go through the water management district and provide appropriate water management

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and maintain and control water on site. So, um, just moving forward to the next slide, Patrick, can I ask one more thing on the new new parking? >> Um, under the community neighbor, good neighbor category. >> Yep.

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>> I assume that, um, on occasion, should and if and when an opportunity, the town or other nonprofit wants to hold sand sculpture down there, parades or whatever it happens to be, that that parking lot could be >> Yes. Yes. Made available for community

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uses on occasion with prior approval and all that. >> They they they've always been a good neighbor. They've always done that. Uh they loved having sand sculptures over there. They had the uh the rugby tournament also that used to happen annually. A bunch of different events.

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Um you know the we know we we've had comments from people concerned about traffic, but I've been here for 22 years. Even those peak days like sand sculpture and I I worked at Santini for little league uh getting people in and

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out. We never had a traffic problem on a stero. It always flowed very well. We had thousands of people attending those events. And um nice thing is we we do have a big parking lot at the stero. This will be a parking lot that can accommodate those events and they'd be

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happy to to keep that partnership with the town. >> Yeah. I just want to get it on the record to be good community citizen. >> This would be a simple excess of 36 spots. This would be a simple excess of 36 spots that we're asking for. Those spots were always there. They were

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always adjacent to the uh budding condos and they weren't controlled like this will be controlled. This will be controlled. This will not be back and forth. Anybody can park there and take their car come and go. This will be for valet only. And we have also enhanced

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the buffering uh all around the property that did not exist previously. So if we move forward to uh the slide where we have the development standards uh I just want to point out that in the

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CR district the setbacks that are required are minimal 20 ft from adjacent properties and what we are committing to is to the north of us we are committing to a minimum 100 foot setback to the

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south a minimum of 200 ft. Um the golf is a 50ft setback. We are we have 650 ft to the Gulf and uh across the street to stero Cove. We're going to have more than 200 ft. Um and we've got

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the the sterile rightway on top of that that creates all that separation. Um we are not asking for density. We are not asking for height. completely code standard.

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Moving to the next slide. This is the parking analysis. It's in your packet. Uh I've already talked about it. Um if you look at phase one, the requirement is for 144 parking spot. We are providing

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163. That's in excess of 19. Uh but it consistent with the requirement. And then in phase two, like I said, um we are providing 237 parking spaces. Uh the requirement is for 147. That's in

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excess of 90 spaces. And again, don't forget compared to what was there before, we had 200 parking spaces on that site. So it's just an increase of of 37 parking spaces. >> Question. >> Yes. I know we're not talking about

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phase three here, but I think the, you know, ideal situation would be to have a hotel there. And by putting in um the structure at the front, is there room to put

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a hotel that is >> Yeah. So right now we're the so the the the real permanent structure is going to be the tiki and the restaurant and they are pushed close to the beach. So there is ample uh room on the rest of the

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site. Um I think if we are looking longterm into the future and if we are looking at a potential um brand new uh commercial resort uh hotel

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resort we're looking at a very sizable investment and I think even if there's permanent structures there uh I I think the whole site gets redesigned removing uh uh or relocating the restaurant and

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the pole barn in the big scheme of things um is very feasible if that's what's desired. So, so right now, but keep in mind, yes, one day there might be another resort there, but right now we are not

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asking for that. If this gets approved, what we are asking for in those site plans are approved in perpetuity. Again, we'd have to come back in. we'd have to ask for an amendment or we'd have to do a CPD at that time.

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>> Are the existing entitlements um allowable without the resort? So, so the so what we're asking for is to maintain the CR uses. Um, right now if you are

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purely using CR and not going through a development agreement or a CPD, the restaurant has to be accessory to the hotel. And that's why that's one of the reasons we are asking for a development

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agreement and also when you ask for coop area you have to go through a special exception process or you have to go through a development agreement or you have to go through CPD. So by going through the development agreement process, it was a way we could address

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all those various issues and get the proper approvals uh to move forward with those uses. Um so if we look at the next slide, I want to point out that we are not asking for additional height. We are

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not asking for additional density. Um so technically public benefit is not a requirement but uh again as mentioned they've always been good neighbors. They want to provide that public benefit. So we are

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going to maintain a public beach access. It's going to be a 10-ft multi-use path. The area adjacent to the pathway is going to be stabilized upgrade. That's so emergency vehicles can use that to access the beach should anything happen

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uh on the beach side. Um we are going to provide public restrooms, comfort stations. Um in the first phase it'll be um the nicer trailers that you've seen at events. Uh in the second phase it'll be permanent structures. Those rooms

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will probably be much bigger because we are going to have a pool with a lazy river. So, it'll be a changing room uh bathroom situation. Um we are intentionally limiting our commercial uses. Again, as mentioned, the CR allows

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for a wider array of uses. What we are asking for is what is presented on your site plan. Uh we are maintaining and and I'm careful with the words I'm using, viewshed slashview corridors. Um

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meaning that some areas might have structures on the ground but above those structures you can have open sky great views and we are limiting the structures going on that site. Uh this will not be uh significant permanent structures that

401
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are uh kind of covering most of the property. We were asked by staff to look at our floor area ratio. So an open pole bar does not qualify as floor area because it is not enclosed.

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However, we calculated the entire pole barn structure and area that we would use the paved area and I think we came up with a 07 F

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and right now uh the zoning allows for 1.4 4 and in a mixeduse district we could be asking for up to 2.5. So we are significantly under what's allowed from an intensity standpoint. Um we are going

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to be using um Florida friendly landscaping. We are limiting our hours of operation and also limiting the hours for amplified sound. We will provide bike parking, golf cart parking. will improve our storm water management

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system. We're going to provide emergency access to the beach. Um, and in the event of any future storm, we have committed to allow emergency management to use the parking lot for staging and

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recovery. Um, we are proposing uses that uh are in great demand and that we keep hearing about the south end needing restaurants, needing recreation and entertainment venues. We are providing that. We are bringing that back. Um and

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um we believe this will have a um real good positive impact uh for the town for complimentary to other businesses and we are going to provide a wave dissipation wall. I think the wave dissipation wall

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is a big deal. Um, I think the town is looking at the possibility of um possibly extending this um along the entire beach. Uh, and this is one property owner doing his part, putting

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that significant investment to be more resilient, protect the properties, and it all, you know, it also protects the the properties behind him. So, those are all public benefits. Um, next slide, please. So

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without going any further, just want to touch upon uh the findings and conclusions from staff. We've read their report. We agree with their findings. Um the only thing to point out is there

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were there was mention of maybe temporary or interim uses. I think we've clarified that. Um and we um they they acknowledge that we are consistent with the comprehensive plan and the vision for the Santini Marina mixeduse district

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and that the proposed uses are compatible and support comprehensive plan goals. Um they do have recommendations associated with the time frame the timelines for the various improvements. As mentioned, I think what we have in

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the development agreement is a little more demanding and we are okay keeping that. Um and um they also mentioned that the proposed uses and public benefits align with the comp plan. So um I've got

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slides that outline the proposed conditions and commitments. Again, happy to skip that. We can go back to those if uh needed. and then if we can forward the slideshow to the conclusion.

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So, uh in my professional planning opinion, um I believe that we are consistent with the old and with the new comp plan. Uh we are consistent with the land development code and the criteria um for evaluating a development

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agreement. Uh and with that said, we respectfully request uh recommendation of approval from the LPA um for the proposed development agreement uh that is in your packet, the deviations included and the conditions

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uh included therein. So with that said, happy to answer questions, address concerns that you may have. >> Thank you, Patrick. Um Jim, any questions? >> We'll pause for a minute. See? Okay, Doug, any questions for Patrick? >> Um,

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could you expand on the the deviations that kind of caught my eye or are the reductions in the buffer zones? >> Can you expand on the reason for that? >> Doug, I I kind of missed that a little bit. Yours expand on what deviations exactly? >> Um, the

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>> minimizing the buffers. >> Two deviations related to buffers. >> Okay. So um the the requirement for commercial uses of budding uh the condo units where parking is abuing

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parking no buffer requirement. We are providing buffers. So we're going above and beyond. Uh also the buffer you have two options when you abut a commercial abuing u the residential. We can do a

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30foot buffer with more vegetation or we could do a 15oot buffer that has less vegetation but contains a wall. What we are proposing is marrying those two. We are proposing a 20ft buffer. So

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again wider than the 15, a little less than the 30. We are providing all the additional um vegetation that would be in the 15oot buffer. We believe that vegetation is is what's going to create the the most

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attractive opaque buffering. It's going to shield. It's going to dampen uh any potential noise. We do understand that the neighbors want a fence uh just in case that uh folks do not cross the properties. And so instead of putting a

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wall because again we we believe the wall is going to be it's not really going to be appreciated. It's going to be behind that landscaping. We are providing a fence with the combination of of the uh landscaping. So again staff

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has looked at that and they agree that this is a good uh mix of those two options and providing for the intent of that buffer. Thank you. >> Do you have an idea how high the fence will be?

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>> Uh the fence will be a regular uh fence, kind of security fence, but the buffers, the vegetation we intend to to keep kind of tall to create that shielding and >> so basically a 4ft fence

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>> most likely a four to six foot fence. >> Four to six >> and then taller vegetation. >> Okay. But it's a chain link fence. >> Yes. >> So that doesn't help buffer any kind of sound or >> No, it would be the the chain link fence would be incorporated within the

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vegetation. I think the idea is to um not really see the fence, >> see the vegetation, but you provide that security measure where people can't cross. >> Okay. Any other questions, Doug? >> No, ma'am. Jane,

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>> um, you had mentioned FEMA earlier saying that you had to do the smaller trailers. So, you believe that FEMA is going to approve six trailers on this property? >> Yes, the we we've looked at the FEMA requirements

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and uh the town requirements. We are going to we're going to have a uh an evacuation plan. All the trailers will meet the requirements. They will be plated. They will be towable by a light dut duty truck and uh there's going to

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be a plan in place uh should there be the need to evacuate and remove those trailers. >> So my question is are we going to see the trailers as we drive into the property? >> So there's going to be some buffering on

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the exterior. Um the the the trailers are going to be kind of far removed from the sterile, but we are going to have some landscaping to beautify the area to shield some of

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those. Again, we need to maintain >> uh a space where they get in and out. But John is already thinking about um you know movable planters uh some of those walls that you can put vegetation on the walls and camouflage

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some of those trailers. And even from a uh an aesthetic standpoint, those trailers, if you've seen Mojo where they've got kind of the siding on top of the trailers, the idea is to make those attractive. Um John's got uh different projects. He he just he's got a um kind

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of high-end luxury class A RV resort in Fort Myers where they put in a big tiki hut. Uh very similar in concept to this. It's been a great success and uh I think the packet included pictures very attractive and uh we've you know we've

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encouraged uh any of you to go out there and take a look at it. But uh this will be an attractive site. Okay. Other questions at the moment, Jane? >> No. >> Jim, >> I'll reserve my uh comments till after the intervenor.

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>> Okay. Any any questions, Ed? >> Yes. Um in regards to the parking lot off entering the parking lot off of a sterile. >> Yeah. Let me ask uh our uh tech person

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to go to the site plan, phase two site plan, please. It's either phase one or phase two because the the parking lot >> either way. >> So those two access points are the existing access points. Um the main

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access point is to the north. Um I think in slow periods uh offse there would probably just be that that access point being used for ingress and egress. In phase one, there will be a booth and an

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attendant. Uh in phase two, uh again it might be a combination of booth, maybe some automated gates. Um but in phase two, they can use uh the second gate when things are busy and uh that one

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would be an egress only um access point. >> Okay. So, still in regard to the entrance of the parking lot from Astero Boulevard, it looks like you have 20 ft between the boulevard and the and the

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parking lot. Is that correct? It looks like there's a 20ft buffer there. There's a along. So what we have there is we have a 10-ft buffer followed by the water management um and combined

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uh we've got varying width but we've got you know probably 50 to 100 ft of separation and uh green space that'll be there with the dry detention areas. >> So you talked about a booth with a parking attendant.

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How far off the road would the would I'm concerned about is traffic back and >> so so what we've got it if you look at the main entrance to the north we have an island in between and then we allow

445
02:13:02.800 --> 02:13:20.079
for a turnaround. So if someone comes in either they don't want to pay the fee or they just turned in by mistake they can turn around before they get to uh the gate area. the attendant. Uh there's going to be stacking for uh several

446
02:13:20.079 --> 02:13:38.480
cars. Uh I don't think we we've looked at that from a engineering design standpoint, but I would assume three to four cars right now the way it is from a stacking standpoint. >> Okay. >> Patrick. >> Don.

447
02:13:38.480 --> 02:13:53.760
>> Don, can you hear me? >> Yeah, I can hear you. >> Do you have any questions for Patrick at the moment? Not other than No, I don't think so. >> Okay. >> Just a couple followup, Patrick, on the um beach access. >> Yes.

448
02:13:53.760 --> 02:14:10.000
>> Um I know you're contemplating as Jane was talking about future uses for this property. Is it the intention and are you beyond the record that that beach access will remain in pertunity for >> Yes. >> the community? >> Yes. >> Regardless of the development that would

449
02:14:10.000 --> 02:14:27.520
come subsequent. So even >> it's always always being a dedicated beach access. >> So for for >> it's a benefit. So I'm just trying to block >> the duration of the development agreement definitely a yes. Yeah, >> beyond that, um I think that's that's up to

450
02:14:27.520 --> 02:14:44.239
>> new requests would have to come in and we deal with that at the time. But >> yeah, >> as it sits now, it's going to remain there for that. >> But but I think as long as the development agreement is in force and active, uh that is a commitment and it will remain. >> So are you aware of any wave disruption

451
02:14:44.239 --> 02:14:58.239
or mitigation walls that have been approved on the beach yet? >> Uh yes. So my understanding is London Bay has designed their wave dissipation wall and that it has been approved. Um

452
02:14:58.239 --> 02:15:15.199
so we the the from a timing standpoint doing the design obtaining initial approval for construction uh is something that's relatively understood and well defined. probably

453
02:15:15.199 --> 02:15:33.679
anywhere from a you know 8 to 10 month time frame. >> It's once you've constructed your wall and you ask FEMA for a map revision. That's where the time frame there they they do not have any uh guaranteed

454
02:15:33.679 --> 02:15:49.119
review periods. >> Yeah, that's that's why I'm getting to the whole thing. I told you we're going to talk about timing a little bit. There's a lot of conversation and justifiably sewn appropriately uh to have these these walls put on the island. There's a lot of speculation

455
02:15:49.119 --> 02:16:05.199
about a subsequent zoning map approval, which I don't know if any of those have been approved yet, but a lot of this is predicated in all those things happening as many have come before we are. I know you're not in control of that, but it is a contingent to your timing on having

456
02:16:05.199 --> 02:16:22.719
that happen. And with the concerns that you're mitigating now through your presentation about the temporary nature and moving through these phases quickly, realistically, you have no idea when phase two could be initiated, started, consummated, etc. Is that correct? >> We can't guarantee time frame. We

457
02:16:22.719 --> 02:16:38.719
estimated most likely in the three to three and a half year period. Um, when it comes to getting these map changes done, um, the engineer that the town has hired, Elizabeth Fountain, is an expert, an

458
02:16:38.719 --> 02:16:54.160
expert throughout Florida. Um, there have been other map changes approved. And one uh, perfect example is downtown Fort Meyers with the new hotel in the basin. Uh, there was a FEMA map change

459
02:16:54.160 --> 02:17:09.519
approved to allow that to happen. And you've looked at the cost of the mitigation wall and that's been fil factored into your desire to do it. >> Yes. Or the applicant has looked at that. >> And are you aware just finish up with this? Are you aware of any issues

460
02:17:09.519 --> 02:17:26.000
uh with the neighbors when you have partial walls constructed versus the entire >> So again, this is not my expertise. I'm just relaying conversations I've had with Elizabeth. Uh my understanding is when they build these wave dissipation walls again these are not massive walls

461
02:17:26.000 --> 02:17:43.439
deflecting water um they're just a few feet uh they can be exposed or they can actually even be covered with sand uh where you would just see a burm essentially. So lowlying what they do is they break the velocity the momentum and

462
02:17:43.439 --> 02:18:00.000
flooding still happens on the property. water still goes there pushed to all the other properties. Plus, they can design it where those walls have breaks in the walls again to allow the flow. What it does is it dissipates the velocity,

463
02:18:00.000 --> 02:18:16.240
allows the water to flow through. >> So, Madam Chair, the only reason I'm bringing that up is obviously the timing of this is a critical part with what you've heard a lot about and we all have, and we've also heard it almost everyone now. the wave mitigation walls become the new thing as part of the approval and criteria. We just don't

464
02:18:16.240 --> 02:18:31.200
have a track record and therefore the public needs to know this is open for an extended period of time based on approvals, construction schedules, etc. So what may be approved in phase one on behalf of phase two may sit there for a long time looking like that's all that's happening. I just wanted to have that

465
02:18:31.200 --> 02:18:46.479
conversation publicly on the record. Um, so I share some of Jim's concerns with relative to the mitigation wall because it is, you know, nobody likes to talk about what happens on either end of it. I I know what it's intended to do,

466
02:18:46.479 --> 02:19:03.040
but I remember the first time I drove on the island, you could see where seaw walls were and the massive wash out that occurred on the ends of those seaw walls and it it was terribly destructive. So, I I you know, this is a bit of time

467
02:19:03.040 --> 02:19:19.200
away. Uh that is that is a concern to me. Um uh John, I'm going to tell you something else that really concerns me about this and I know you haven't gotten up there, but I'm going to tell you. So, in the old Holiday Inn or Windom, I mean, to me it was always the Holiday in because that's what it was for me, you

468
02:19:19.200 --> 02:19:36.479
know. Um, and all of the noise, all of the entertainment value was surrounded by buildings except on the front side of the beach and this isn't. And so that noise impact I think is going to be tremendous on the adjacent properties.

469
02:19:36.479 --> 02:19:53.760
It's a big concern for me. Um, I think you've addressed the parking issue because that was one of the things that got raised quite a few times, uh, at least to me personally and in some of the emails, it got raised about the parking, the increase in parking, how it

470
02:19:53.760 --> 02:20:09.120
will be managed, and what the impact will be to, uh, surrounding properties. But um I I'll I'll I'll leave the rest of my questions for >> for uh later in the process >> to to address the um the potential noise.

471
02:20:09.120 --> 02:20:24.800
>> U go ahead. >> I'm John. >> John, you have to say say that now at the microphone. >> John, how are you repres? >> Nice to see you. >> FMBH LLC. Uh as far as the sound goes, I've dealt with this in other projects and there are sound curtains you can put

472
02:20:24.800 --> 02:20:41.680
up. I've had doom for pickle ball courts. have had doom for fars. So, there are ways to mitigate that. And at the old holiday and uh that sound bounced off those buildings like crazy, just to let you know, it actually worse. >> So, there there are ways that you can

473
02:20:41.680 --> 02:21:01.280
mitigate that sound and that bass reflex with sound curtains. And again, if you go up to my project in Fort Myers, they're there now. And it's to mitigate that pickle ball because it is crazy loud. So, just to let you know, there are products Okay. Um, anything else, Patrick, for

474
02:21:01.280 --> 02:21:16.640
the moment? Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> So, uh, Jason, we'll come back to you. Uh, do you want to add, um, more than your introduction, >> but just as short, right? Just

475
02:21:16.640 --> 02:21:32.560
>> um, yeah. So I'll just cover a couple brief things. I had mentioned and I think Patrick actually mentioned it too is uh the conditions are also some thought comments. Uh maybe some of them more so than a fully flushed out condition. And part of that is because the way the code is written with with

476
02:21:32.560 --> 02:21:48.319
regard to phasing um and all of that outcome and those the verbiage for those conditions are 100% based on what ultimately your recommendation comes. So that's one thing. Um, so there's there's an exhibit that was included in the packet, exhibit E, outstanding issues. >> Yes.

477
02:21:48.319 --> 02:22:04.800
>> That also addresses and is trying to identify some of those things that just are not spelled out in the DA portion, but revert you back to the code and yada yada yada. So, we'll have to address those. Um, a couple responses to some of the things that I heard say uh just now part of the presentation. Uh, the code

478
02:22:04.800 --> 02:22:20.240
actually requires the landscaping to be on the outside of a fence. Um, so that it would be the landscaping and then a fencing. Uh what type of fencing is up to you and your recommendation of what you want to require. >> Which side's the outside? >> The the adjacent to residential or a

479
02:22:20.240 --> 02:22:37.359
neighbor is the ex. So it's at the edge of the property's landscaping and then any fencing would be interior to the applicant's land, not fencing on the outside and then landscaping inside. They can ask for that and you could approve that switch, but >> typically it's landscaping on the outside and then fencing on the inside.

480
02:22:37.359 --> 02:22:52.800
>> Okay. >> Uh that does always I've seen it. You've probably driven up and down the road and seen master developments all over Florida. How do they get access to that landscaping that's outside the fence? That's something they'll have to figure out whether it's a gate or what have you to get appropriate access. Obviously, they're not going to be able to get it

481
02:22:52.800 --> 02:23:08.240
from the neighbor uh to get to maintain that landscaping, but that's just a operational thing. Uh the site I we are not um necessarily accepting that the access gate or any future access gate compliance with town codes. They're representative on the site plan. they

482
02:23:08.240 --> 02:23:23.600
would have to cons be consistent with the town regulations and also consistent with whatever Lee County requires since Astero Boulevard is is theirs. Um, one thing that uh I I I'll take the fault for not noticing this um on the site

483
02:23:23.600 --> 02:23:40.880
plan and you guys brought it up with the beach access um and this is a general statement. Beach access being offered by an applicant needs to really be conditioned to go to the mean high water line. So most of the time your site plans are showing and being reflective of where development stops or sometimes

484
02:23:40.880 --> 02:23:56.319
where a wave mitigation wall might be or what have you. And we ran into this issue with a couple sites from a couple years ago without the actual access and right all the way to the meanhigh water line. There's there's a a chance that legally somebody could argue you stop

485
02:23:56.319 --> 02:24:13.200
where the easement stops and you no longer have public access beyond that. So it defeats the purpose. Um and that's what you run into here. you would run into private land after after the edge there. So, um I would say that's kind of a general statement for most developments to be thinking about that going all the way down to ensure that full public access.

486
02:24:13.200 --> 02:24:28.399
Um and then I think time is going to be a big thing. Uh the music and the noise times are offered by the applicant. They are not conditioned. U so we can make that a condition if those are the times that you're agreeable to. >> That's all I have.

487
02:24:28.399 --> 02:24:52.960
>> Okay. Thank you very much. uh questions for Jason at the moment. All right. Um sir, it's it's your turn. >> So, we're don't don't say don't say anything until you're at the microphone. That's okay.

488
02:24:52.960 --> 02:25:11.520
>> You want to make sure you're on the record. Okay. >> Well, I'm not as polished as uh some of the people before. That's okay. My name is Larry Galene. I'm uh the president of San Caper Condominium Association at 6900 Astero Boulevard. We're immediately

489
02:25:11.520 --> 02:25:28.160
adjacent to the Old Windham Hotel property where the proposed development is uh going to be put in. I represent the board of directors of the association and many if not most of the owners on the property and many other

490
02:25:28.160 --> 02:25:44.560
owners in properties around us. We're supportive of the restaurant and bar facilities at the property and suppose and support the establishment of a permanent pedestrian beach access for the south end of the residents as well as vehicular access for town and

491
02:25:44.560 --> 02:26:00.720
emergency vehicles. However, uh we do not believe that the proposed development at 6890 Eststerero, the former Windham Hotel, is in keeping with the FMB comprehensive development plan. Um and it does not adhere to the current

492
02:26:00.720 --> 02:26:16.800
zoning ordinances. I that's why they're asking for some of these exceptions. We're specifically concerned with the size of the parking facilities, numerous requested zoning variances and setbacks and buffer zones and coastal construction line. Also concerned about

493
02:26:16.800 --> 02:26:32.960
the construction of the wave barrier. Um I'm going to be uh turning over the presentation to Mr. Max Forgi for a discussion of our concerns with the comprehensive uh plan for land development and then I have some comments after that. I've uh got these

494
02:26:32.960 --> 02:26:47.920
all written down. I'm going to probably just be reading them to stay within the time limit. And um you know, I I I note uh the legal challenge to maybe some of the statements I'm going to make. They may not be perfectly within the uh the

495
02:26:47.920 --> 02:27:04.080
uh comprehensive development plan. We had a week to present something. Uh we didn't get a lawyer hired for this, so uh we may not be perfect on everything. >> Don't you worry about that. >> Okay. You're fine. >> I'm also not an expert. >> You're fine. >> Okay. >> You're fine. Very good, Max.

496
02:27:04.080 --> 02:27:29.040
>> Thank you, sir. >> Thank you, Larry. Um. >> Ah, good. >> Or do I do it? >> Next. >> Ah, >> just say the word next. >> Next. Ah, next.

497
02:27:29.040 --> 02:27:45.520
>> There you go. It's magic. >> I have no idea. uh Max 40 uh doing business as 40 uh planning LLC. Uh I have been sworn my resume is on file. I have been

498
02:27:45.520 --> 02:28:01.600
recognized as an expert four or five times in the past in uh this jurisdiction. And um I want to address seven

499
02:28:01.600 --> 02:28:22.640
uh items in your comprehensive plan which are inconsistent with the proposed development in addition to a couple of other items which Larry's going to raise. Objective uh FLU1A

500
02:28:22.640 --> 02:28:39.200
small town character. Uh your comp plan says maintain the small town character of Fort Myers Beach and the pedestrianoriented public realm that allows people to move throughout the island without the need

501
02:28:39.200 --> 02:28:55.439
of cars even in the midst of peak season congestion. The proposed development would include plus or minus 237 parking spaces and 10 golf cart spaces

502
02:28:55.439 --> 02:29:15.040
per the application page 14. This does not promote small town character. It does not create a pedestrianoriented public realm and it does not diminish the need of cars in the v vicinity.

503
02:29:15.040 --> 02:29:32.640
Next policy is uh FLU1A2 encourage pedestrianoriented public amenities. Quote, "The town of Fort Myers Beach values its vibrant

504
02:29:32.640 --> 02:29:49.280
economy and walkable commercial areas. Through this plan, the town will ensure that new commercial activities when allowed will contribute to the pedestrianoriented

505
02:29:49.280 --> 02:30:06.319
public realm. Um to the extent that a public realm is created the propos by the proposed development it would not be pedestrianoriented. I want to say that one of the great

506
02:30:06.319 --> 02:30:23.520
things about the uh Fort Myers Beach comprehensive plan is it has very strong statements of what values uh the um the previous town council was trying to inculcate.

507
02:30:23.520 --> 02:30:44.880
Uh this is an example. The next two policies next I've never encountered this before are the strongest >> we try to be original. >> I am I am really excited about this. The next two policies are the strongest

508
02:30:44.880 --> 02:31:00.000
justifications for denial of this application. Policy FLU1A5 parking. The town shall explore opportunities to provide innovative parking solutions on

509
02:31:00.000 --> 02:31:15.600
the island to meet future demands. The town shall maximize efficient use of land, minimize gaps in the urban landscape, and improve urban form by encouraging redevelopment of existing

510
02:31:15.600 --> 02:31:33.520
surface parking lots. Discouraging creation of new surface lots. consolidating parking in strategically located parking structures and managing parking as a system.

511
02:31:33.520 --> 02:31:49.680
The town's general policy is to discourage new surface parking lots, to develop strategically located parking structures, and to manage parking as a system. The proposed 237 spaces more or

512
02:31:49.680 --> 02:32:07.439
less would accomplish none of those directives. 237 spaces means a lot more than 237 people. Nobody drives to the beach by themselves. Uh they

513
02:32:07.439 --> 02:32:24.319
the number in the car is usually double that and sometimes much more. Unlike the persons who park their vehicles at a motel or a resort where vehicles typically remain parked all day, there will be plenty of churn. This

514
02:32:24.319 --> 02:32:44.880
is going to be a lot of activity. The second most important policy is policy FLU1B2B, the definition of medium residential. Quote, designed for subdivisions with

515
02:32:44.880 --> 02:33:02.399
mixed housing types on smaller lots, newer high-rise buildings, and mobile homes and RV parks. This category will ensure that Fort Meyers Beach retains a variety of neighborhoods and housing

516
02:33:02.399 --> 02:33:19.280
types. Commercial activities are appropriate primarily along Astero Boulevard and must be sensitive to nearby residential uses. I'll skip the rest of that one. This is the future land use map

517
02:33:19.280 --> 02:33:36.399
designation on the subject property. We agree that there is a public realm aspect to the proposal, but the Fort Myers Beach comprehensive plan as the town's adopted vision of its land use future is medium residential and

518
02:33:36.399 --> 02:33:53.760
residential uses should be assumed to be the central theme. The public realm must be developed in a manner that is harmonious with the existing residential uses. This can be achieved with the collaboration of the town council and

519
02:33:53.760 --> 02:34:10.240
the LPA to guarantee that the public generated activities, their lights, noise, odors, windborne litter, and other sites and activities do not clash with the use and enjoyment of the neighbors.

520
02:34:10.240 --> 02:34:26.720
And more specifically, can be enforced and implemented with minimal response by residential neighbors. Uh the remaining policies are policy FLU1B3

521
02:34:26.720 --> 02:34:43.439
which specifies that mixeduse boulevard and pedestrian commercial future land use designations are where the comprehensive plan uh envisions the most commercial activity.

522
02:34:43.439 --> 02:35:00.960
um policy FLU1B4, land use types defined, uh gives a definition of what residential use includes and it does not include a parking lot of 237

523
02:35:00.960 --> 02:35:16.240
uh spaces and uh policy FLU1 C3 commercial locations. Uh going through this rather quickly. In

524
02:35:16.240 --> 02:35:32.560
the medium residential category, commercial uses are limited to lower impact uses such as offices, motel, and public uses and must and must be sensitive to nearby residential uses.

525
02:35:32.560 --> 02:35:46.560
And item five, when evaluating requests for new commercial uses, shopping and services that contribute to the pedestrian character of the town are strongly preferred over buildings

526
02:35:46.560 --> 02:36:04.479
designed primarily for vehicular access. Um, I want to uh before I yield back to Mr. parting. Uh we believe that we have presented sufficient

527
02:36:04.479 --> 02:36:28.399
uh comprehensive planbased evidence for denial of this application as proposed. Mr. Gal. All right. So um there are several items. Could we go to the next page, please? Thank you. Several items I'd

528
02:36:28.399 --> 02:36:43.920
like to comment on. One of them is um in zoning and related items like that. Um commercial zoning for uh commercial resort uh in in the code says that the purpose of CR zoning is to designate certain

529
02:36:43.920 --> 02:36:59.680
suitable locations for motel, resorts, and related services. And that in the CR zoning district, allowable uses are defined in table 34-2. And in 342, we look at the definition of a resort as a mixeduse facility that

530
02:36:59.680 --> 02:37:16.240
accommodates transient guests and vacationers as well as long-term residents. Resorts contain at least one hotel motel with at least 50 units which include combination of dwelling units, guest units and may

531
02:37:16.240 --> 02:37:31.359
include time share units and provide food service, outdoor recreational activities andor conference facilities for their guests. So it doesn't meet the code to have this

532
02:37:31.359 --> 02:37:48.479
here where you have no primary structure and you have a series of accessory structures. Now I know that's what the application is trying to do is to establish that you can have a bunch of accessory structures without a primary structure. But our

533
02:37:48.479 --> 02:38:05.359
preference is to have you know the uh um old hotel there as it is. the setbacks and buffers. We're asking for a variance to the uh they're asking for variances to buffers uh uh developing on the property. They're asking for variances

534
02:38:05.359 --> 02:38:21.120
to fit more cars into the parking lot. Uh we're in opposition to both of those things. there are not a lot of businesses there on the island in that area that need valet parking and uh we can't see that you know short of having another hotel

535
02:38:21.120 --> 02:38:38.319
there that there is going to be much difficulty uh in using the parking they have without valet parking coastal construction line we're concerned about they've shoved everything right up against the coastal construction line to make more room for parking if they shove

536
02:38:38.319 --> 02:38:54.479
everything back 30 feet they don't have to go over the coastal constru construction line and uh and so that ends up uh um allowing them to do what they would like to do without as many parking spots but but without having to go over the coastal construction line.

537
02:38:54.479 --> 02:39:10.080
The wave barrier we're very concerned about. It's been mentioned already. Um you see the u the development that was uh done down at Leonardo Arms and when Milton came in the uh associations on

538
02:39:10.080 --> 02:39:27.520
both sides were uh were heavily hit and so we're concerned about the impact of that wave barrier upon our property upon the um wildlife area that's there and upon the burm that we've spent so much money on

539
02:39:27.520 --> 02:39:43.120
uh to put up and down in front of the of that area. Um, in the comments that I've given to you, there are comments about the beach and wildlife area. Um, hours and noise, uh, live amplified music from 10:00 a.m.

540
02:39:43.120 --> 02:39:58.720
in the morning is not in keeping with residential areas. We tell our people to use earbuds or earphones, you know, at the pool and on their lenai. We liked having the music there in the evening, but it was buffered by the building

541
02:39:58.720 --> 02:40:12.960
and um we didn't hear it when we closed our doors. I can't believe that 10 in the morning is not going to be ending up with some difficulties for for our um our properties. Um the rest of my

542
02:40:12.960 --> 02:40:30.479
comments are um written out for you. Um could I have an extension just to put a summary in, please? >> You know what, Mr. Galene, you'll have another 3 minutes when I open the public hearing. >> Okay, I can wait. >> Just hold hold tight. >> All right. Thank you very much.

543
02:40:30.479 --> 02:40:45.680
>> Thank you, sir. Thank you both very much. >> Okay. Um, let's open the public hearing. >> Uh, sure, Patrick.

544
02:40:45.680 --> 02:41:03.439
>> Uh, we can either rebut now or wait till after the public comment period. Why don't you wait until after the post? See see what else we have. So, um, is there anybody here who'd like to speak in public hearing? Yes, sir. >> Come on up. State when you get to the microphone, tell me if you were sworn in

545
02:41:03.439 --> 02:41:20.240
and what your name is. >> Yes, I was sworn in. >> And your name? >> Ed Korea. >> Nice to meet you. >> As I always say, Ed, two Eds are better than one. >> Um, I'm gonna uh a butter. So, I got a copy

546
02:41:20.240 --> 02:41:35.200
of this to come come here and u I'm very much in favor of Bitz Bar. I've been um living on well I've owned um on a condo across the street from uh Bitsbar for

547
02:41:35.200 --> 02:41:51.200
the past uh 22 years, but I've uh lived full-time here for the last 14. Although one of those years I was working remote because I was sick of the cold up in Boston. So, and I haven't regretted my move down

548
02:41:51.200 --> 02:42:06.240
here. The only problem we have is that there's no restaurants or bars on this this side of the beach or the island. And um the only one we have is Leno, which is a very good restaurant, but

549
02:42:06.240 --> 02:42:27.600
it's um very good fresh pasta, but that's the only one around here. We really need to have food that we can get here easily. Um there was mentioned that um 180 people from uh Sandereak and 100 people from

550
02:42:27.600 --> 02:42:44.399
Eststerero Cove uh are in favor of this. What we also found out was well there was another 192 in the area that I'm in. um in one condo with six other uh five other condos for 192 people and uh Candy

551
02:42:44.399 --> 02:43:07.600
uh Figareroa had sent a note saying that. So there's more support than what I'm hearing here for this project. Um we really need to have Birds Bar opened up. It's a big loss not having it. I see

552
02:43:07.600 --> 02:43:25.439
no big intrusion. What I saw before versus what is being proposed is very similar. Um I would uh suggest that we get going on this and do it very quickly because we have no other place here.

553
02:43:25.439 --> 02:43:51.680
>> Thank you. >> Thank you, sir, very much. Would anybody else like to speak? Come on up. So, I have not been >> I was going to say I don't think you stood up. >> Okay. >> All right. So, >> okay. >> No problem. >> If you'll raise your right hand, do you

554
02:43:51.680 --> 02:44:08.319
solemnly swear that the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. >> It is. Yes. >> Thank you. >> Okay. So, um, my name is Ena Bertaluchi and, um, well, we've owned for 27 years. We've come and gone and now we're here

555
02:44:08.319 --> 02:44:25.680
basically, well, we've been here now a couple two, three years, basically permanently. Anyway, I will make this short and sweet. Um, with all due respect, this is as low key as it can get. Um, the parking I get, but again, you know,

556
02:44:25.680 --> 02:44:42.080
whatever, but that parking lot has never ever been absolutely full to capacity, even during the the sand sculptures. It's been full. It's been kind of whatever, but it's been manageable. I've never seen it like an overflow with back

557
02:44:42.080 --> 02:44:58.640
traffic on the boulevard, whatever. So given that um and there's always been music so I don't see a difference and I see it as something we need. >> That's about it. Well, thank you very much. You did a good job.

558
02:44:58.640 --> 02:45:19.200
>> Thank you. >> Uh anyone else wish to speak? >> Mr. Galen, >> come on back up. All right, I'll quickly get to the uh the summary here. Uh visitor volume

559
02:45:19.200 --> 02:45:35.359
substantially different than uh the former Windham Hotel. Although limited public parking may have been available in the past, vast majority of the parking served the hotel guests who typically arrived once and remained at the hotel parked for extended period of

560
02:45:35.359 --> 02:45:51.520
times. Public parking facilities generate repeated vehicle turnover through the day, resulting in significantly greater traffic volumes and different visitor counts. So, you have increased traffic, vehicle circulation through neighborhoods,

561
02:45:51.520 --> 02:46:07.840
increased pressure on nearby parking facilities, greater pet uh pedestrian activity, and increased demands for law enforcement, traffic control, parking enforcement, emergency vehicles, things like that. Um, I did not mention this before, but we have concerns about dogs

562
02:46:07.840 --> 02:46:24.080
on the beach. They're running unleashed at this point. We've seen them running through the Little Eststerero um, uh, wildlife area, chasing the birds, and there's just not a lot of control at times on that. So, we would appreciate

563
02:46:24.080 --> 02:46:41.760
it if this um development had a no pet policy like they have at Bonita Beach. This is going to become the largest parking lot in the entire island. Um, in summary, the current plan is not built for Fort Myers Beach residents.

564
02:46:41.760 --> 02:46:58.960
It's built to draw in outsiders from outside the area. It used to be people who would come for a week and stay there. Now, it's going to be a significant number of people coming in. I think that they could move this back away from the uh coastal construction

565
02:46:58.960 --> 02:47:16.240
line. I'm concerned about the wave uh uh wall that could go in and could cause harm to our property in a hurricane. Uh we've invested with the expectation that properties identified at medium density residential um are going to remain so according to

566
02:47:16.240 --> 02:47:32.800
the plan. We understand that the developers may argue that this enhances the p public realm. That's one opinion to be argued. uh we believe it's to the detriment of the public uh realm and is and we're in opposition to it because it's in opposition to the FMB

567
02:47:32.800 --> 02:47:48.560
development plan to have transient parking um at this this volume. Um we also believe the plan is not legally in compliance with the zoning ordinances and that's why the exception is being asked. Uh but we do ask for a

568
02:47:48.560 --> 02:48:03.920
no vote on this. We think that it could be significantly changed. We again, we would like to have the um food, we'd like to have the beverage, we'd like to cut down on the volume of parking that goes with that down to what's necessary

569
02:48:03.920 --> 02:48:23.920
for that and then u be able to have a better buffer zone between us and them. Thank you. >> Would you all mind if I asked Mr. Galina a question? >> Sure. Can you can So you want a better buffer?

570
02:48:23.920 --> 02:48:39.920
>> Yes. >> You want less parking, but you want what you really want is parking for the facility only. >> Uh so you don't want any public parking. >> Would rather not. >> Okay. And what was the third one?

571
02:48:39.920 --> 02:48:56.000
>> Well, I don't know. I was just going off. >> I I just I just wanted the wave uh wall. >> The wave mitigation. significantly it's being put in there to expand the cop. >> No, the wave mitig Well, okay, I won't. >> I mean, you can move that all if you're

572
02:48:56.000 --> 02:49:12.479
going to do a wave. Why Why do you put a 30 ft out from the coastal construction line? Why not move everything back 30 ft? Well, because you don't have as much parking. >> Okay. I I just wanted to be clear on your point. rather not have that wall go all the way out to our property line

573
02:49:12.479 --> 02:49:27.439
because of the destruction that we've seen on the edges of something like that like at Leonardo Arms. >> Yes, sir. Now I understand. Thank you very much. Appreciate it. >> Okay. Um Patrick, you have or or Megan,

574
02:49:27.439 --> 02:49:45.200
do you have u clarifications? >> We do have a rebuttal. We'd like to address a few issues. Um I'll touch upon the um wave mitigation wall as the first item just because we we just finished with that. Um the wave

575
02:49:45.200 --> 02:50:00.960
dissipation wall um does not change the coastal construction line setback line. Um it would be part of an entire armature system for the beach. So we do have BMS,

576
02:50:00.960 --> 02:50:17.600
we've got dunes. This is another layer of protection. Again, the intent is to create a more resilient uh community. Um be able to um

577
02:50:17.600 --> 02:50:34.399
address impacts from major storms. This does not change the coastal construction line in any way. It doesn't bring us further towards the water water. Also um point was why are we not putting the

578
02:50:34.399 --> 02:50:52.080
building closer to stero? The reason is this has always been a beach venue. People want a beach venue. People want to be close to the sand. That is why we are locating the building there. So with regards to the comprehensive

579
02:50:52.080 --> 02:51:10.080
plan policies that um Mr. Porgi is identified. Um we have those same policies identified in our packet. Um and we have a very different interpretation than m Mr. Forgi and we

580
02:51:10.080 --> 02:51:27.439
demonstrate and justify how we meet all those requirements. So just to touch upon a few again it's in your packet. we go into a lot of detail and staff has also supported that we are consistent with the comp plan. So professional planning opinion here,

581
02:51:27.439 --> 02:51:44.160
professional planning opinion there also. Um so from a small town uh the small town policy that talks about pedestrian access and a pedestrian realm.

582
02:51:44.160 --> 02:51:59.200
I can see where someone would look at Eststero in the boulevard section in that area and they would think that it was um very very much geared towards the automobile. What someone that is not a resident

583
02:51:59.200 --> 02:52:17.120
feels to understand is that we have so many condos and so many people visiting uh from out of state in those condos and there is a ton of pedestrian activity in that area going to Santini bicycle activity and those people will continue

584
02:52:17.120 --> 02:52:35.439
to walk to this venue just like they always have. Um we are providing a multi-use pathway again promotes bike ped activity promotes uh the pedestrian realm. We do have a bus stop right in

585
02:52:35.439 --> 02:52:52.720
front of the property. Again promotes alternative modes. We are not we as a property owner cannot change people's behaviors and driving patterns. What we can do is we can put certain

586
02:52:52.720 --> 02:53:07.600
things in place that will encourage bike ped activity. So again, we've got bike racks, we've got golf carts, we've got not only the multi-use path on the southern end, we have a sidewalk that

587
02:53:07.600 --> 02:53:26.000
crosses through the property. Um with regards to the assertion that uh we are in the medium residential category and that it's really focused on

588
02:53:26.000 --> 02:53:40.880
residential. What uh Mr. Forgi omitted to explain is medium the the medium residential category the new category used to be our mixed

589
02:53:40.880 --> 02:53:59.040
residential and I'm sure you guys remember the extent of that mixed residential on the beach it's very pervasive very large areas what wasn't explained is that the mixeduse nodes the mixeduse districts or

590
02:53:59.040 --> 02:54:14.720
a subset of that larger broader category. And while we want residential in some of those areas, the mixeduse nodes identify the need and the desire for mix of uses,

591
02:54:14.720 --> 02:54:30.720
higher intensities, higher densities and more intense commercial uses. So again, you have to look at the policies in context. we are in a proper district for this type of use and again uh something

592
02:54:30.720 --> 02:54:49.920
that is supported by staff. Uh with regards to again the size of the facility, the amount of parking, as I explained at length, we are pretty much replacing what was existing. The

593
02:54:49.920 --> 02:55:07.439
coop area which encompasses the pool, the pool deck, the old tiki was 31,000 ft plus or minus. We are asking for 32,000 square ft. So again, very consistent

594
02:55:07.439 --> 02:55:26.160
um from from the type of use and the amount the intensity of use. Also with regards to the parking, we had plus or minus 200 spaces previously. We were asking for 237.

595
02:55:26.160 --> 02:55:42.160
And keep in mind that most of the parking that we are providing is code required. The code requires that parking. So the additional parking that that we have that is above and beyond code is for joint use parking.

596
02:55:42.160 --> 02:55:57.840
And again on many projects as a town, as an advisory body, and as a council, uh there's a lot of discussion about parking reductions that have been um

597
02:55:57.840 --> 02:56:15.359
approved and how do we address parking and do we have a parking challenge? Um, I'm not sure that we have all the answers and that we know exactly where we stand from a parking standpoint, but I think in a lot of people's minds,

598
02:56:15.359 --> 02:56:30.560
we need some solutions. This is a private sector property owner providing a solution, providing a spot for joint use parking. And this is not a public parking. This

599
02:56:30.560 --> 02:56:46.960
is not somewhere where people can park and go to the beach. This is going to be for entities that have joint parking agreements that can demonstrate those agreements and provide proof to the town that there's an agreement in place and

600
02:56:46.960 --> 02:57:05.080
those areas would be valet only. So again, the area that is not valid is code required. The other area is valid only for joint parking only. Um

601
02:57:06.560 --> 02:57:23.040
there was also discussion that previously the parking was mostly for hotel guests. So again I look at how many hotel units existed 103.

602
02:57:23.040 --> 02:57:40.240
And I'm sure that that means that some people do not use a car when they come there. So, and we had two 200 parking spaces. So, there has always been additional parking for the residents,

603
02:57:40.240 --> 02:57:56.479
for guests, for visitors. So, as mentioned, we are trying to replace existing uses that have been there for decades and coexisted harmoniously with the neighbors.

604
02:57:56.479 --> 02:58:14.160
And again, as explained, we have overwhelmingly uh presented that the neighbors support this project. Again, over 360 units are represented in those

605
02:58:14.160 --> 02:58:30.800
letters from the associations and this gentleman just said that probably an additional 191 units are also in support. Um Barbara Puffer that many of you know um did talk on behalf of her

606
02:58:30.800 --> 02:58:47.040
association the 180 units at uh Eststerero Cove but Eststero Cove is in touch with all the condos back there and every year they put a block party uh they invite over 600 units to that block

607
02:58:47.040 --> 02:59:01.840
party. We were invited to go this year. We went this year. We got nothing but support. The association presented the old flag that used to be on the site that they salvaged after the storm.

608
02:59:01.840 --> 02:59:18.479
They presented it to Mr. Callas and they told him that they can't wait for that flag to be back up there and for the business to be back in operation. So again, uh we understand uh that some people are going to be concerned. again,

609
02:59:18.479 --> 02:59:37.520
we are putting back uses that coexisted that were there before. So, with that said, um that kind of wraps it up for me. I don't know if you've got anything else to touch upon. >> I I think that that I don't think that I have anything to follow up on. Um we appreciate everybody's time. We do ask

610
02:59:37.520 --> 02:59:54.960
to take the public comment into consideration the weight um and identify that there is a much larger support than there is opposition. We understand that they're have their own concerns of which they're entitled to voice to you. Um, but Patrick has as well as as staff has

611
02:59:54.960 --> 03:00:10.960
exemplified why this development agreement is consistent with the land development co-regulations, why it's consistent with the comprehensive plan, both old as well as new. Uh, and there is uh vast comp substantial evidence to support this development agreement

612
03:00:10.960 --> 03:00:29.439
before the wall. >> Thank you, Megan. Um, okay. Uh, Don, do you have any questions? >> No, I really don't. >> Okay. Ed, questions for staff for the applicant? >> No questions.

613
03:00:29.439 --> 03:00:51.359
>> Jim, you have a number of comments. Um I guess to start with, you know, these development agreements have become something different than what we intended when we uh first discussed and

614
03:00:51.359 --> 03:01:07.040
asked council to approve this. They were intended for, you know, the small mom and pops, but they've evolved into what they are. Um, so, um, I guess I'll just go through on page 97.

615
03:01:07.040 --> 03:01:22.720
You know, I think that having some language, uh, attached to this Ballard and and rope uh, on the COP area, you know, something along the lines of no alcohol beyond this point or some kind of notice would be

616
03:01:22.720 --> 03:01:38.960
appropriate. Um, on page 98, I think >> was that was 97. Jim, if you'd like, we we have the entire thing >> in our PowerPoint. I don't know if it helps the public to pull up those pages and look at that exact language.

617
03:01:38.960 --> 03:01:53.200
>> Yes, please. >> It's really up to you. So, um, if whoever is manning the PowerPoint, >> Eric, page 97, can you pull that up, please? >> It it would be >> in the supplemental slides in the back

618
03:01:53.200 --> 03:02:14.240
>> and and uh we may not have the right page. We just copied and pasted the whole thing into PowerPoint, but if you tell us what section, we could pull that up. >> Oh, that would be difficult. >> You want me to go through that? If if

619
03:02:14.240 --> 03:02:31.120
they can't follow it, I page 97. It would be uh >> if we could get the I'm sorry to interrupt. If we can get the PowerPoint up, I have the development agreement with the page numbers here as well, so I can identify which section you're looking at. But what Amy's saying is that Eric doesn't have the page numbers.

620
03:02:31.120 --> 03:02:57.600
>> Oh, no. It's okay. We have If you go >> Yes, but it's not okay for the public. Megan, >> if you can show it. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Now, I'll revert back to the next. Okay. Can we go next?

621
03:02:57.600 --> 03:03:15.680
Next. Next. It's 60. Next. Next. Next. Next. Okay. I believe that was the first one that you were referencing and that is on page 97 of 189 in the packet

622
03:03:15.680 --> 03:03:31.359
section 6D >> and it would be item D >> where I'm suggesting that some sort of notice or signage uh the proposal is just s ballard and

623
03:03:31.359 --> 03:03:50.800
ropes and uh giving the public notice about what's not allowed beyond on those areas. Next would be pageu 98 um where we're talking about parking

624
03:03:50.800 --> 03:04:08.800
landscaping. Um well in that area, you know, we're talking about mulch and bushes in a parking lot. Um, I think that there's the ability that car cars and people and

625
03:04:08.800 --> 03:04:25.120
rain will wash away the bushes drive over these things that perhaps including some larger uh containers or portable pots with some larger plants. could uh bring not only uh definition to the

626
03:04:25.120 --> 03:04:45.680
parking areas but also potentially some shade and some uh relief to uh the visual part of it. >> Next slide please. >> Okay. >> Next last one

627
03:04:45.680 --> 03:05:13.760
>> that's the parking internal landscaping. >> Yeah. page uh 100. >> It's up there. The discussion is uh you know the 237

628
03:05:13.760 --> 03:05:32.479
cars and 10 golf carts um could have a significant impact on Eststerero as was pointed out there's going to be turnover um before any phase work would be done I think we should have uh that a traffic

629
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study would be completed and any recommendation ations in that traffic study would be built uh before any phase 2 improvements would be occupiable. >> I believe that's a staff recommendation as well. Can we go forward please next?

630
03:05:51.600 --> 03:06:10.000
I think probably two or three slides. 7F >> page 102 item 15. um governmental agencies that need permitting. I think Lee uh County Highway Department

631
03:06:10.000 --> 03:06:39.760
needs to be added there in case uh the traffic study indicates that you need a deceleration lane or left turn only lanes. uh page 102. Um and 103 was the list of what uh were

632
03:06:39.760 --> 03:06:56.800
perceived to be amenities or public improvements. We've had this discussion before under the new comp plan. Um any code required um requirements such as landscaping sidewalk setbacks are not public

633
03:06:56.800 --> 03:07:19.439
improvements. Therefore these lists should be segregated into their respective categories. Amenities should be separated from uh um what is a public benefit. >> Yeah. And that section for members of the

634
03:07:19.439 --> 03:07:38.560
public, page 102, is section 16, which um lists out all the conditions of approval. >> Yeah. Right. Um page 104 on deviation number one. Um

635
03:07:38.560 --> 03:07:53.920
the suggestion would be that there would be some sort of hard surface transition area where the ingresses are or the egresses are help aliate um gravel from being tracked onto

636
03:07:53.920 --> 03:08:16.640
boulevard. >> That will be standard. >> A couple other comments. I think that somewhere we should have language in here that sound mitigation uh needs to be included, right? >> Not just limitating to decibb hours of

637
03:08:16.640 --> 03:08:31.200
operation. >> I have that down >> and a comment that a letter from the association president is only representing one person, you know, unless it has taken a board action on

638
03:08:31.200 --> 03:08:46.479
it. So these letters, I don't know if they represent one person, just the board, or the whole membership without a vote. It doesn't need rebuttal, Pat. >> It's just a comment. >> No problem.

639
03:08:46.479 --> 03:09:02.399
However, I do have two um I mean to me they're they're important concerns and that is in phase two the overnight parking um there is no hotel there is no

640
03:09:02.399 --> 03:09:18.319
restaurant looking for uh any overflow parking you know if the applicant wants these conditions to me it makes sense let them come back in the future when they have a specific user Um overnight parking, you know, was

641
03:09:18.319 --> 03:09:32.479
eliminated in the final request when we approved access 26 food truck park. Um this the statement that you want overnight parking and a valet seem at

642
03:09:32.479 --> 03:09:50.479
odds because if there's a hotel and and is there going to be a valet available 24 hours a day? you you can't say how an a hotel is going to operate. Um and when we talked about it when I met with you, you said, "Well, there'll

643
03:09:50.479 --> 03:10:07.439
be a gate that can use a ticket." Well, if you have overnight parking and somebody um parks their car and then they're at the hotel, what's to prevent them from coming and going whenever they want, creating traffic and noise in the

644
03:10:07.439 --> 03:10:23.120
neighborhood? Um, and my last comment is on page 106. >> Can I go back to the your the overnight? You don't have do you have a problem

645
03:10:23.120 --> 03:10:40.720
with the um with the shared parking agreements or you don't like that? Do you not like that as well or is it just the overnight parking? >> No, it's the overnight parking I think is premature until they have >> Yeah. a user. >> Okay.

646
03:10:40.720 --> 03:10:56.880
>> Um, let's let me get to page one 106. On 106 um paragraph D,

647
03:10:56.880 --> 03:11:12.640
we have the language that um the property owner and developer retains the right for commercial resort consistent with the LDC and the 2045 uh comprehensive plan andor building

648
03:11:12.640 --> 03:11:28.479
permit. But then the language without the need for a public hearing I think is unacceptable. the public should always have the ability to comment on, you know, whether it's a variance, whether it's a CPD,

649
03:11:28.479 --> 03:11:44.720
um to have ask the town to eliminate the need for a public hearing without even knowing what's being requested and I I find unacceptable. >> I I completely understand. Can I explain or should we move on?

650
03:11:44.720 --> 03:12:02.080
>> I'll explain. Um it would just be pursuant to a building permit. If somebody were to be coming in and saying we're going to be completely consistent with um the land development code, not asking for any setbacks buffers, the likelihood of that occurring is going to be slim to none. But it's just like any

651
03:12:02.080 --> 03:12:17.680
other property owner that says, "I don't need a setback. I don't need a variance. I'm going to comply with everything that's contained in the land development code as is." If you would prefer for that to be removed, we could discuss it, but it's not intended by any means to

652
03:12:17.680 --> 03:12:34.800
say we are trying to avoid um public hearings or applications or >> it's a good explanation. >> Additionally, the uh the site plans that are approved as part of this DA, >> yes, >> limits what we can do. anything additional as as I mentioned, we need to

653
03:12:34.800 --> 03:12:49.680
amend the development agreement through a public hearing process or we have to extinguish the development agreement and come back in with a CPD or straight zoning. But without that language, if it's a building permit and it needs

654
03:12:49.680 --> 03:13:06.880
no public hearing, there's not one required. But if it you have any other variance or any other portion of an application that does I don't think it should be prevented. I the public >> agreed >> there should be a public hearing%

655
03:13:06.880 --> 03:13:24.240
>> we're not saying any different >> then then you wouldn't object to removing that language. >> We can certainly modify I'll have to rate it again. We can certainly modify it to make sure that this is not in an attempt to remove any >> public hearing. >> Okay. >> Situation. >> And those are my comments.

656
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>> Thank you, Jim. Um Jane, questions, comments? >> Um one concern that I was thinking through was the restrooms. Would they be locked down at time of closing? >> Okay. >> Yes. >> Okay.

657
03:13:44.399 --> 03:14:02.399
Um, I think that's it for me right now. Okay, Doug, questions? >> No, I'm good. >> No. How about you, Jim? >> Jason. >> So, that sounded like you're going to be in trouble, Jason. >> Wait, which one?

658
03:14:02.399 --> 03:14:17.760
>> Been Yeah, you're right. It's been represented that you and Patrick are in alignment on the comprehensive plan um conditions being met. Can you comment on that? So, you're on the record for that? >> Yeah, I think the staff report says there's portions of the application and requests that are in alignment such as

659
03:14:17.760 --> 03:14:34.560
uses with the comprehensive plan in the zoning districts essentially. Um, I would go as far as say every detail is consistent with the comprehensive plan because again, some of it's depending on how you interpret a policy and and then the conditions that go with that and the timing, those types of things.

660
03:14:34.560 --> 03:14:49.840
>> Just wanted you to have a chance to put yourself on the record for that alignment with the neighborhood company. Yeah, generally speaking, with the commercial nature of what was here and what's been designated in the future land use, I would go as far as to say that. Yes. >> Very good. Thank you. >> Um

661
03:14:49.840 --> 03:15:06.160
I'm I I added Jim's comments to my list here, but I am going to um tell you what I'd like to see as conditions. I'd like there to be some sort of signage, something that indicates no beach parking.

662
03:15:06.160 --> 03:15:22.399
So, this is parking for this restaurant or bar. Um, I agree with Mr. Galene. I don't think that the uh buffer between either sides of the residential multif

663
03:15:22.399 --> 03:15:38.000
family condominiums should be minimized in any way. In fact, increased if at all possible. And what I what I don't know because I couldn't visualize it is you go from it says 15 and then it says 30 and you've taken 20 to go the whole rout

664
03:15:38.000 --> 03:15:53.760
the whole length. Right. So is that would you say that that's an improvement or it diminishes it? I I don't want to diminish any kind of buffer. >> Oh it definitely enhances it. So so there's a portion when parking abotss parking that you do not have to provide a buffer. >> Right.

665
03:15:53.760 --> 03:16:09.680
>> And we are providing a buffer. So that's an enhancement. And again, I think the the 20 foot buffer is going to provide more vegetation. If if it's not supported, we'll go to 15 ft. Put a wall. But now you're going to have a situation where we have a wall

666
03:16:09.680 --> 03:16:25.920
and a fence and we have less landscaping. We we again my the reason I was cautiously optimistic from the beginning the cautious portion was it feels sometimes like no good deeds go

667
03:16:25.920 --> 03:16:41.359
unpunished and um >> well Patrick >> I I I understand the comments but we we've worked very hard in trying to address these issues and >> I I believe you have. I'm just trying to address the concerns that have been raised to me

668
03:16:41.359 --> 03:16:57.760
>> and raised here today. And I So that was my question. Since I cannot I'm a visual person. Since I can't visualize this 20 foot type F buffer, I'm asking you to say for the record that it is a better

669
03:16:57.760 --> 03:17:12.960
bigger buffer than you would normally be required. >> Yes, >> it is. Okay. for for the portion of budding parking to parking >> parking to parking but not the portion >> the rest of the portion it can either be a 15 foot buffer 15 wide with a wall

670
03:17:12.960 --> 03:17:30.160
>> with less landscaping or it could be a 30 foot wide with no wall with more landscaping. >> We are proposing 20 ft with >> landscaping >> the the enhanced landscaping but instead of all >> and the fence >> so we think it's a better buffer. >> Okay. Do you all agree with him?

671
03:17:30.160 --> 03:17:47.760
>> I do. Now the problem or question with landscaping is you know you can put in a plant this big and you can put in a plant you said taller than the fence >> but but what the code calls for is very clear amounts of shrubs and trees we

672
03:17:47.760 --> 03:18:06.560
need to meet that requirement. >> I don't know what type F is. What is F type F? I would have to pull it up in the land development code, but we won't meet the exact plan. >> Does it ever have a height to it >> or just a type? >> I mean, it sounds like a silly detail,

673
03:18:06.560 --> 03:18:23.600
but in the end, it's not a silly detail, you know. >> Okay. Well, while Jason's looking for that, um, >> uh, we've we've talked about the sound curtains, and I appreciate you bringing that up. Um, John, I'd like it to be a condition that you must put in sound

674
03:18:23.600 --> 03:18:42.160
curtains, not just we could put in sound curtains, that there must be some sort of sound curtains. Um, would you agree to that? You can just nod. >> Absolutely. >> He would say absolutely. Okay. You you said that the restrooms would be locked at night. And the attended parking um

675
03:18:42.160 --> 03:19:00.160
can you tell me is the attended parking during all operating hours? >> Yes. >> The attended parking is during operating hours. Okay. Um every day that you're open. >> Should he come up to the >> Yeah. Can you come up, John? Because you've said you have said yes to the

676
03:19:00.160 --> 03:19:16.880
sound curtains. Yes. Uh yes. That the restrooms are locked at night. that there would be attended parking uh during all operating hours. >> That's correct. >> And that would you agree to the no beach parking somehow signage about that?

677
03:19:16.880 --> 03:19:33.279
>> What I would like to do, I'm sorry to interrupt, is if we could get everybody's comments and proposed conditions. >> Well, I'm the last one. >> Okay, then >> you got them all. Ma'am, >> and start. >> And I've written down what everybody else has said, so I could go over it with you. You want me to start at the top? >> No, I've been I take really good notes.

678
03:19:33.279 --> 03:19:49.600
I bet you do. That's what you should do. >> I'd actually like to add something if I could. >> Please go right ahead. >> If you're going to the parking, you're going to have to actually be open before and after your business hours. I mean, if your place closes at 9:00 and the park he the parking attendant can't just

679
03:19:49.600 --> 03:20:04.800
leave. There's going to be people that are still there till milling about until at least 9:30, wouldn't you say? >> Yeah, that that's fairly accurate. I mean, it's just the way we ran it before, right? So, we we we do a really good job of getting people out of there. the beach parking. I can't control if

680
03:20:04.800 --> 03:20:19.600
someone goes to the beach. What I what I can do is I can charge them and then give them obviously some kind of coupon to go use it. >> But John, if there was a sign or something that said no beach parking, this parking is exclusively for Bert's

681
03:20:19.600 --> 03:20:36.640
Bar, then that says to some now somebody clever as soon as they know how this works, they're going to go there. They're going to go and get their drink and then they're going to go sit down and go to the beach or whatever. But you've you've eliminated half of the congestion that adjacent properties are

682
03:20:36.640 --> 03:20:53.200
super concerned about. I mean, really concerned about. >> Yeah. If you want us to put a sign up, we can put a sign up, but if people go there, I can't. >> Understood. Yeah. >> I just I just want you to make an attempt to >> Sure. Yeah. >> eliminate that. Okay. So, Ed, are you saying that you would like the attended

683
03:20:53.200 --> 03:21:09.279
parking to be an hour before and an hour after the operating hours? Well, I would leave it up to to them, but it's going to it has to be at least a half an hour. Yeah. Nobody's going to leave, right? Oh, it's 9:00.

684
03:21:09.279 --> 03:21:25.359
>> Get your car. It's >> done. Yeah. >> Last call. I just got my drink. I got to finish. >> I have a question though. Is the attendant parking is that that's just for the 90 spaces that are like um designated?

685
03:21:25.359 --> 03:21:41.439
>> No, that's for all of it. >> That's for all of the parking. all the spaces, >> all parking. >> The thing is once you close, no one's coming in, >> right? Everyone's going out, so there's there's really no need for attendant. But um you know, again, we when we close the property, we did this all the time.

686
03:21:41.439 --> 03:21:57.920
We we make everyone leave and we don't want the liability people staying there late. I've done this for years and years. It's a terrible thing after 9:00. >> Should be easy then to put a designation in there. The attendant will remain on duty until the last vehicle has left the parking lot. Yeah, that would be it.

687
03:21:57.920 --> 03:22:13.520
>> That could be your policy. >> Someone could be over served, leave their car there. I I can't. That's that's I can't >> Well, then it becomes overnight parking. >> Well, unfortunately, uh that may happen >> because, you know, I can't

688
03:22:13.520 --> 03:22:31.040
>> Let's be aspirational, John. >> Let's be aspirational and and cautiously hopeful as Patrick wants to be here. I what we're trying to do is is um put up some guard rails as much as possible for

689
03:22:31.040 --> 03:22:47.040
impact to the adjacent neighbors who are not supportive of your project uh to give them some comfort that maybe this will be okay. And so um if you'll agree to that, I think that could possibly help. >> Yeah, sure. I'm going to try to mitigate

690
03:22:47.040 --> 03:23:04.880
any type of transient parking going to the beach. It's not in my best interest, right? No, it certainly isn't. Okay. And what about um the beach access um for the duration of the development agreement to the mean high water line.

691
03:23:04.880 --> 03:23:21.920
So somebody can walk all the way down your property because >> it's your property. >> It's your property. So that the effect is that people say, "Oh, you've got beach access, but it ends here." And it's just it's a technicality, but it's something that you really need to say that somebody can traverse your property

692
03:23:21.920 --> 03:23:38.239
all the way down to the water. >> Yeah, they can do. But do I need to provide some type of >> No, you just you just need to say that that that beach access is to the mean instead of just saying beach access. >> Absolutely.

693
03:23:38.239 --> 03:23:55.200
>> Okay. >> Was going to comment. >> Jason, >> hey, just to sorry, just to chime in. So they can and if if they want to revise it before the council, but typically it's a designated area for the width that they're calling for just all that way. It's not the entire property usually. >> No, it's an ement and generally it's an

694
03:23:55.200 --> 03:24:11.840
easement. So the vehicle is we go through the DO process. >> We do this with Margaritavville and some others. um they show that hatching of where that is along the entire property and then they present to the town the the legal instrument which gets reviewed by the at town attorney and planning and

695
03:24:11.840 --> 03:24:26.800
some others to ensure that it's legally sufficient um and then gets recorded as part of all those approvals. So that's what we would look for. Okay, since I'm holding you hostage here, um Jim's uh suggestion about larger containers or

696
03:24:26.800 --> 03:24:44.399
portable plants or something in the parking lot would certainly improve the aesthetics of it. And my and is that a yes? >> No, I've said yes, it would improve the aesthetics. Um I think we got to dig down and see what's available when we get there. Um but yeah, that's certainly

697
03:24:44.399 --> 03:25:00.720
it's actually probably a cheaper idea for me anyways. But um and that might be a support structure for rope and ballard that we could connect to. So it's actually a very good idea >> kind of like what's at philosantini with the blue pots. >> Yep. Yep. So would that be yes? Because

698
03:25:00.720 --> 03:25:16.479
I'm talking about conditions here. >> Um I'd have to talk to an engineer, make sure I can do it. You know, I there's a lot of roads a lot of road to cover before I know I can do it. So, I gota you we got to go to Southwest Water Management. We got to make sure we're

699
03:25:16.479 --> 03:25:32.160
controlling all our water. I don't know how they have what they do with those structures. Uh I will do everything in my power to make it as attractive as possible. That's the whole idea. I'm going to try to make it feel like you've gone somewhere, you know, some kind of >> But if you're allowed to, you're not If

700
03:25:32.160 --> 03:25:48.239
you're allowed to, you're not opposed to it. >> If I'm allowed to do it, I'm not opposed to it. If you're allowed to do it, you will do it. Is that what you're saying? >> I'm allowed to heard. I'm not opposed to it. >> Okay. Um Jim also suggested uh that a

701
03:25:48.239 --> 03:26:04.080
traffic study be completed before phase two is built with any uh suggestions uh included in your phase 2. >> That is one of staff's current um it is Jason. That's because of the nature of

702
03:26:04.080 --> 03:26:20.080
the phasing but then also you have other uses being asked for from a entitlement perspective that are not represented on the phases. Uh typically we require a traffic study or updated study with any additional phases or any incremental or increase in development.

703
03:26:20.080 --> 03:26:36.560
>> Um so even later on all approvals have to do additional traffic studies. I'll put it that way. >> Okay. No objection. >> Okay. um adding adding um lead DOT to your government agencies. >> That's fine. That's a good idea.

704
03:26:36.560 --> 03:26:53.840
>> Yep. Um the uh you know, we talked about this a lot. That gym and this gym did a great uh presentation about amenities versus public benefits. You're calling them all public benefits. We would not. We would call some of them amenities.

705
03:26:53.840 --> 03:27:09.600
the there is a public benefit about the access to the beach. That's a public benefit, but it should probably be delineated. >> Just to clarify, if you look at the the language used in the development agreement, we do not call them benefits. We put commitments commitments and

706
03:27:09.600 --> 03:27:24.319
conditions of approval. >> Commitments and conditions. Well, that's clever >> because we knew this was an issue. >> Yeah, it it's important to us. >> Somebody's been paying attention to us. >> Okay. Um uh I I didn't think about this, but this

707
03:27:24.319 --> 03:27:42.239
was a good addition here that um to add adding the hard surface transition to Astero Boulevard because you're right. You pull out and and uh what do you think about that, John or Pat? >> We we agree with that and I think that's code. Um the proper term is an apron.

708
03:27:42.239 --> 03:27:58.640
Aprons are required. >> Yeah. >> That would be staff's question. Is that the intent? So from the property line to the edge of pavement of the street. >> Mhm. >> Lee County designates and regulates that apron essentially. Um which it typically is concrete or some other hard surface.

709
03:27:58.640 --> 03:28:20.960
So if that's the intent that's fine, but is it the intent of that or beyond that on a drive aisle that was intended by the suggestion? >> Well, I don't know, Jim. So I just clarific typically it's concrete it's their standards for their right ofway. What my

710
03:28:20.960 --> 03:28:34.960
question was, is that what you intended for the portion that goes from the edge of pavement of the road to the property line, which is Lee County rightway, or was it also to have an additional service beyond that onto the property like a drive aisle for a few feet in as

711
03:28:34.960 --> 03:28:51.760
such as an addition? the my intent was further into the property because >> where we have that now >> the area that is in the rightway isn't sufficient to stop the gravel from getting out onto >> right and I think you also get deterioration between that concrete and

712
03:28:51.760 --> 03:29:08.960
that so it creates a ridge >> then you guys can talk about how far >> thank you >> so maybe Patrick has a suggestion on that >> so so the um the code calls for a minimum throat depth for stacking Uh I think the code says 100 ft. So we would

713
03:29:08.960 --> 03:29:24.080
be fine for that required throat depth to be paved or concrete asphalt >> of 100 ft >> of yeah that that requirement and I believe it's 100 feet >> which keeps it out of the sewer system too by the way. >> Yeah. And that should be sufficient. >> Yeah. Good.

714
03:29:24.080 --> 03:29:42.000
>> Or just say it equivalent to the throat depth. >> Did we find on landscaping F is there a height on the plants for F >> in the code? Are we done with the so you go I want to hear about F. Go ahead. >> Okay. Can we can we finish the one the

715
03:29:42.000 --> 03:29:58.640
finish the the drive out? Right. It's per the stacking I think is what I heard a comment of. Or is it 100 feet? >> It's 100 ft >> or or equivalent to the stacking depth >> or equivalent to stacking depth. >> Okay. Thank you. Yeah. >> Okay. >> I didn't want to move on too quick. >> Um do you have the answer on the F?

716
03:29:58.640 --> 03:30:13.439
>> Do you have the height? I'll give him the number. Um so Patrick, stay with me here for a second. It's f but 15 feet right >> minimum five >> right um why nobody had this so the minimum number of trees and this is per 100 feet I think that was the first

717
03:30:13.439 --> 03:30:29.760
question is what does it look like so it's 10 trees and then according to the code that says has hedge with a little number on it and that hedge is described as hedge must be planted in double staggered rows and might be maintained so as to form a 3-ft high continuous

718
03:30:29.760 --> 03:30:45.680
visual screen within one year after planting except that the type F buffers the hedges must be 4 feet at installation and be maintained at 5T. So in the according to the F it's installed at four and maintained at five for the hedge

719
03:30:45.680 --> 03:31:01.040
>> maintain five it'll be taller than the fence. >> Yep. That's just the head >> is likely. Okay. >> And then your trees u are end up being a mixture of canopy and understory trees that go in between all of that. And that's like I said the trees are apparently 10 per 100.

720
03:31:01.040 --> 03:31:15.760
>> Yes. So we're all that is code and >> the intent of the code is is to to basically lowlying hedge and then the canopies kind of cover the the upper portion. >> Mhm. Admittedly the tree I don't have

721
03:31:15.760 --> 03:31:32.800
the number the the diameter of the trees at the moment but they usually are small but they have to be planted a minimum something like 12 or 14 15 ft and then grow from there obviously and that's all going to be pursuant to a landscape architect saying that they can fit those and it'll

722
03:31:32.800 --> 03:31:49.439
survive. >> Okay. Uh all right. Uh so let's touch on overnight parking. >> Yes. Uh that that was a concern raised by quite a few people. >> They don't like overnight parking at

723
03:31:49.439 --> 03:32:04.800
all. We didn't like it in the food truck. Nobody likes it. It's actually prohibited in Fort Myers Beach, all over the place, overnight parking. And so why should you have overnight parking? >> Okay. Um >> well, let me say it this way. I don't

724
03:32:04.800 --> 03:32:20.960
think you should have overnight parking. >> Well, I feel very strongly that we should. >> Okay. >> Okay. I be careful how I phrase this, but but I guess the question that comes to mind is

725
03:32:20.960 --> 03:32:38.319
how can we make a fuss about a project like Myersside asking for parking reduction and express a lot of concern over the parking reduction >> and then this private sector entity

726
03:32:38.319 --> 03:32:56.000
comes in and offers a solution. There was already parking there. So from a use standpoint, the use does not change. It was used for the hotel. So there was overnight parking there already. We are going to buffer it. We are going to control it and we are

727
03:32:56.000 --> 03:33:10.960
offering a solution to a problem that we've identified elsewhere. We have another case coming before you right after this one. >> Yeah. That needs >> We're asking for a parking reduction. >> There have been concerns that have been brought up. >> Yes. We have a solution here.

728
03:33:10.960 --> 03:33:26.479
>> So again, I go back to no good deeds go unpunished. I I'm very afraid and you may have heard the planning acronym. Uh we used to call it nimiism.

729
03:33:26.479 --> 03:33:44.479
Now we call it cave people citizens against virtually everything. >> And and I know it's a little harsh, but >> it's very harsh. You didn't need to bring that negativity into an otherwise positive experience. >> But we we have I'll bring up a slide if

730
03:33:44.479 --> 03:34:04.000
we can. It's slide number 68, please. >> Do you all agree with him? >> I just >> I don't I >> Don doesn't agree with you. >> No, I don't I don't agree. I I do think there are people that will disagree with

731
03:34:04.000 --> 03:34:19.760
a lot of things, but I think if if this was next to your home or your winter home, Patrick, you might feel similar. So, I think what we're trying to address is we're trying to find a compromise that works for everyone >> so that we can, you know, we can move the ball forward. So, I think our intent

732
03:34:19.760 --> 03:34:36.479
is the same as yours. >> So, the question would be what what is the repercussions if somebody parks there? Are they going to be towed? Are they going to be >> They can't park there unless they're escorted in. >> No, that's be escorted in.

733
03:34:36.479 --> 03:34:53.120
>> The their vehicle would be taken from the restaurant or the hotel. The valet person would come park it. They would not have no access whatsoever to that parking lot. And when they would submit their their ticket to the valet, the valet would go back with an ebike or

734
03:34:53.120 --> 03:35:10.319
scooter, go get the car and bring it back. And >> but you have no user. >> If you get the beach theater restaurant, it doesn't need overnight parking. You can use it travel. >> It needs even parking. >> When you have a user, you can come in

735
03:35:10.319 --> 03:35:25.920
and request >> overnight parking. Whatever is appropriate for the parking isn't overnight parking. >> Overnight parking is that >> understood. >> Okay. >> Understood. We're asking for evening and overnight because restaurants

736
03:35:25.920 --> 03:35:43.120
will be will need additional parking in the evening. Hotels may need parking overnight. >> How long do how long does evening go to? >> We say excuse me >> what are the hours of evening? >> Evening to me evening would be from past

737
03:35:43.120 --> 03:35:58.000
5:00 to >> to 10 >> to 101. >> That's evening. Yep. >> But overnight is >> overnight would be for hotels. >> There is no hotel though. We have no user. >> Yes. Myersside is a perfect example.

738
03:35:58.000 --> 03:36:13.200
We've approved my side. They have a reduction. We have >> You think somebody from Myersside is going to overnight park here? What is it? A mile and a half? >> Oh, no. It's more than a mile and a half. It's like three miles. >> It makes no sense.

739
03:36:13.200 --> 03:36:28.479
>> I It Okay. I I just last three times I went back home to see my parents. I spent time in Montreal. >> The hotels. >> Oh, honey. Montreal's an enormous cosmopolitan metropolitan city.

740
03:36:28.479 --> 03:36:46.080
>> But the thing is, they valet offsite and you give your ticket and you never see your car again to expect 10 minutes, 15 minutes before someone goes to pick it up and drives it back. >> Sure. So, so if you're talking, so so

741
03:36:46.080 --> 03:37:02.080
let's let's extend the logical thought process here. You've got a project that comes before you that is presenting a good project, great request. The only thing is they're a little short on parking and you put a

742
03:37:02.080 --> 03:37:16.560
condition upon them that they need to find off-site parking. You don't think they're going to utilize it to get their approval? You think that they're going to say, "No, it's it's a mile away. It's too far." No, we've got ebikes. We've

743
03:37:16.560 --> 03:37:35.439
got scooters. I I can >> You know what? >> I I think we we all know that ebikes and scooters change the whole game. >> Yes. And golf carts and all those things that aren't cars. Sure they do. >> But well, this the overnight parking is an issue for me.

744
03:37:35.439 --> 03:37:50.800
>> Okay. >> It's an issue for Jim. It's an issue for Don. It's an issue for Jason. >> No. No. No. No. No, >> Jason. Maybe >> I have a comment. >> Go ahead, Doug. >> Um, yeah, I the parking looks like a lot. I get that. But our comprehensive

745
03:37:50.800 --> 03:38:06.880
plan does set a goal of consolidating parking and finding ways to, you know, for lack of a better word, create places where people can park. And I think what they're saying is whether it's a fenced area, that's valet

746
03:38:06.880 --> 03:38:25.040
parking, it's for that very aspect of the comprehensive plan to try to consolidate parking from other areas in the island that aren't going to be able to have parking. I'm not a big fan of parking, but I I think I understand what Pat's >> trying to say here is that it's

747
03:38:25.040 --> 03:38:43.279
consistent with the comprehensive plan to consolidate parking. And with all >> with all due respect to to the LPA members and and to everybody looking at this issue, >> I I have a concern

748
03:38:43.279 --> 03:38:59.359
that we keep talking about parking and that as a town, and I'm not pointing out anybody, staff, residents, different board members, we have not even made an effort to find a solution. solution. >> Yeah.

749
03:38:59.359 --> 03:39:13.600
>> And it's very frustrating to me. So that's what you're getting from me today is that frustration of we are several years removed from the hurricane. >> The issue keeps coming up.

750
03:39:13.600 --> 03:39:31.279
No one on has made an official attempt to address the issue to solve the issue. And now you have a private owner putting forward a solution and all we get is roadblocks. And again,

751
03:39:31.279 --> 03:39:48.160
not only are we providing the solution, it was an existing use. There was parking there right next to them. This is going to be controlled. It's going to be buffered. It's going to be a better situation than it was before. The property coexisted for decades with

752
03:39:48.160 --> 03:40:04.880
their neighbors. And all of a sudden, because we have a bite at the apple, we're going to take that bite even though the use coexisted. >> Okay. >> For decades. >> So, what do you think? >> A couple things. Um,

753
03:40:04.880 --> 03:40:20.640
you know, I'm compared to a lot of you fairly new resident here, but I do always meet up, talk to you about this, read the archives and read the history and kind of get a context of the culture and the evolution of that. And the history that I've been accessed to is

754
03:40:20.640 --> 03:40:35.760
rife with the belief system that we don't provide parking, people won't bring their cars, and we don't want to encourage that. So, let's do all our parking off the island somewhere. Transport, transport, transport. And I read that on and on and on again. And that has created in my mind an

755
03:40:35.760 --> 03:40:52.399
accumulation of concentration of cars with nowhere to go. Um because neither one of those things have happened. And I'm not sure how it would work if it was offsite anyway. Interesting to me if this private individual was offering this land, giving it to the town and

756
03:40:52.399 --> 03:41:08.319
there was a proposal to build a multi- height parking structure on that, which of course those conversations became more prevalent as we looked at the town's land in that. How would we deal with all that? Would we go back and reminisce around we don't want track people down there or we say, "Oh my god,

757
03:41:08.319 --> 03:41:24.800
we finally have a solution. This looks like a very low impact item. These aren't Ferraris and sports cars. People coming in and out. Parking lots, attended parking lots. Ballet parking lots are everywhere in our worlds that we go to. It seems like they're trying

758
03:41:24.800 --> 03:41:41.120
to in the context of I'm sure charging and making some money which is the right way to do it to maintain it and in and staff it offering an option to the island in general maybe sort of more so the south end depending how you define how far they'll go that I'm trying to

759
03:41:41.120 --> 03:41:56.960
ascertain why it is so controversial when we have something that we don't have today that can be used by virtually anyone nonprofit all the way to for-profit so I don't share the same angle just because I think all the other solutions that have been talked about have not developed. They not been tried.

760
03:41:56.960 --> 03:42:13.200
They haven't been accomplished. There's not one on the horizon. Other alternatives are not available. And we have a parking problem. So, I'll leave that with there. It it doesn't bring doesn't rise to me to the level of maybe some of my peers here. Um, and I think it's something that is just like the

761
03:42:13.200 --> 03:42:31.120
public benefit debate needs to be finalized by a group of people saying this is what we want and will somebody do it. And the first one that offers always has to go through the arrows. So, it's where I am. >> Okay. Jamie, >> I don't really have a problem with the

762
03:42:31.120 --> 03:42:48.640
valet area doing whatever because it is going to be regulated and it's not just people pulling in to go have drinks and do that. They're not going to be going into the valet area. this is going to be um you know scheduled parking that

763
03:42:48.640 --> 03:43:03.439
you've gotten agreements with other places to use and so we we know who's going in and out whereas um I I understand wanting the parking lot after the bar closes and

764
03:43:03.439 --> 03:43:18.640
the pool closes to be vacant so that you can manage what goes on in that parking lot when everybody's supposed to be gone. So I I I look at them totally separately. My only concern about the valet parking and that reserve parking

765
03:43:18.640 --> 03:43:35.120
is that it can't be um we can't look at those cases that come before us and say here's where I'm going to park because there's still phase three out there that they can get that on a temporary basis and know that when phase three comes in,

766
03:43:35.120 --> 03:43:50.640
you know, it's not a commitment for life. >> Okay. Okay, Jason, did you >> just a procedural thing? And >> thank you. That's almost exactly what I was going to say. >> Yeah. Well, >> how about that? Um, so there is no time restriction on parking unless you or the

767
03:43:50.640 --> 03:44:06.479
council adopts a a condition to that that time. So that's why we need that direction as part of the condition. >> Which part of it is there phases to it? Is it a portion of it? I think on the site plan, the second phase, it highlights the the great shape. >> Wait, wait. You're saying that overnight

768
03:44:06.479 --> 03:44:20.720
parking is not restricted by code on this island? >> No. Generally, when you do permanent shared parking approvals, you have to come in for a special exception to get the is a parking lot, >> the town has conditioned the limitations on the time of that. No lighting, trash

769
03:44:20.720 --> 03:44:37.439
cans, hedges, and time. That's not in the code as far as that restriction. So, it's not you have to actively approve a condition or recommend a condition to restrict that time. And I would suggest perhaps you look at that from an area at at a minimum. be clear to us what you're

770
03:44:37.439 --> 03:44:54.080
which area you're trying to restrict. Um and just because I heard a number, but I counted 106 in the shaded area. That is the um >> shared parking. >> Shared park. Yes. It's similar to shared parking with a joint agreement. >> Yes.

771
03:44:54.080 --> 03:45:09.279
>> So you want a timeline for that? >> No. Well, if you're going to do one, >> if if you want to limit it, you have to condition it. You're not approving overnight parking. You're approving a timeline or recommending a condition for timeline. And then two where >> but if we do nothing to limit the

772
03:45:09.279 --> 03:45:25.920
timeline it defaults to what? >> There is not a timeline in the code. >> What is that? >> Okay. >> Right. So I'm not clear we understand what is meant by timeline. >> A restriction on when parking can occur. Typically you're you're it's sun up to sun down is a very typical >> hours of operation. >> Hours of operation for the parking lot

773
03:45:25.920 --> 03:45:41.120
part of it. Right. >> Which is a little different than than what Jane was talking about. What Jean was talking about is if at one point a resort goes there >> and the area is used for just the resort

774
03:45:41.120 --> 03:45:57.359
required parking >> right >> then that joint parking goes away and I think the answer that that when we had talked about that I given you is is the understanding is um and let's take a perfect example with uh the beach

775
03:45:57.359 --> 03:46:14.479
theater. So they also own the Dolphin in property. >> Mhm. >> Their commitment is to use that as overflow parking. They have expressed that they are actively trying to sell that property. If it sells, they also committed that

776
03:46:14.479 --> 03:46:30.000
they have to find another solution and come back. They did. So, so it would be the same thing where the entities that have an agreement if this transformed to a resort and that joint parking goes away, they have to find another spot or maybe by then the town has been

777
03:46:30.000 --> 03:46:47.600
proactive and has found a solution that we can all live with. >> So that yeah, I think that was the second part of her statement. But just the background on that, remember most traditionally people have come in for parking deviations or variances as part of a development with a joint use

778
03:46:47.600 --> 03:47:02.800
agreement in their pocket, >> right? >> So we we aren't doing that. So frankly, we're giving reductions in parking and we're creating a demand for it offsite. Um but what I would say is that's going to be the trip tough part when we get the final DO and give the approval for

779
03:47:02.800 --> 03:47:19.520
construction and then cos all of those pieces need to be in place. And then what happens if the agreement goes away? Then those those developments are out of compliance. So there there's a domino effect there potentially with how they find parking, right?

780
03:47:19.520 --> 03:47:34.239
>> If if you care about parking. >> So it I don't think that what I hear from the LPA is the shared parking, the the beach theater, restaurant,

781
03:47:34.239 --> 03:47:50.160
those are not necessarily an issue. The issue is the overnight component. >> Well, there's code compliance with the number of parking spaces, right? That's dealt through either shared parking agreements or through deviations and

782
03:47:50.160 --> 03:48:05.680
some other study or analysis. And then there's the time issue I think are are separate. I think those are two different components. Correct. >> Yeah. I mean, I did make the statement it was premature without it, but maybe it's build it and they will come,

783
03:48:05.680 --> 03:48:21.680
>> but it's still the issue of the overnight, not the shared parking. >> Right. >> Right. I just say from a staff perspective, I would I would be careful of future deviations to parking that create a demand that then create the demand for more parking lots. >> Self-perately.

784
03:48:21.680 --> 03:48:40.160
>> Yeah. That is that is it. So, Ed, where are you? We >> Oh, go. I'm sorry, Don. Go ahead. No, >> I just going to sec echo what Jason said. You know, the phase three or phase four of this project could be, you know, a hotel, you know, above all this and

785
03:48:40.160 --> 03:48:55.439
then it's going to have parking requirements and if it did not do the shared parking anymore, then you've got a problem with, you know, with with other properties. So, I think we have to be careful. It has to be kind of a comprehensive plan, but but I I don't know how you do it. You almost have to track parking at every, you know, where

786
03:48:55.439 --> 03:49:12.080
you gave up spots and, you know, you have to, what do you do? Give away height and say, "Hey, build an extra story and put another put a two-floor parking garage in, right?" Or something like that. There's >> some point. >> We have to find some sort of compromise. >> Okay. But, uh, and Ed, where are you on

787
03:49:12.080 --> 03:49:29.279
this overnight parking? >> I've got no problem with 24 with having at least one lot that's 24-hour parking. Um, John mentioned earlier about someone that might get overserved. In fact, there was a time I lived in Tampa where they required overnight parking to to to

788
03:49:29.279 --> 03:49:45.120
make the road safer. So, >> in your neighborhood, >> it's too far from >> Tampa and Montreal. >> The the intent >> Well, those are big cities. You're right. Those are big cities, but we've got big city problems here, too, that we need to address at some time. I mean, we

789
03:49:45.120 --> 03:50:01.279
keep we keep I don't really this discussion has gone way too long for me, but we're talking about shared parking, 24-hour parking. I mean, I'd like to concentrate on one if we could, and the 24-hour parking is is no problem with me. >> Well, I don't know how we can just

790
03:50:01.279 --> 03:50:17.600
concentrate on one because they're we're clearly crossing all of them, right, in this this particular project. But I I I guess the question for the LPA is or folks who are really against 24-hour parking is the concern and I know Jane like I've always heard you always ask about that. Is it because people end up

791
03:50:17.600 --> 03:50:34.160
kind of camping out on the beach at night and leaving their car or what what is the >> biggest concern there? >> I think kind of like the no beach parking sign. You could put no beach parking and no overnight parking and let it

792
03:50:34.160 --> 03:50:49.600
be and then they monitor it. Like he said, he's not wanting to have cars in the parking lot when the business is closed. It is not helping his business or um >> creating anything good for his business. >> But we're not talking about that parking

793
03:50:49.600 --> 03:51:06.160
lot. So the main principal parking lot won't have overnight parking lot. It's just the thing is the overnight would be limited to hotels only that have an agreement. >> So it's not like I drank I drank too much >> and now I want to move from one parking lot to the other >> in that section of the park. That

794
03:51:06.160 --> 03:51:21.439
doesn't happen. It the only people that can access that at night will be valet parking attendants and it will be for hotels and those hotels will have to demonstrate that they have an agreement. It's >> right. So, it's not for the >> just a solution.

795
03:51:21.439 --> 03:51:38.239
>> And by putting so many restrictions on it, you narrow the ability to use the park parking area. >> Here's the here's the thing. Uh those of us who are concerned about the overnight parking are outnumbered by those of you who are comfortable with it. So, we're going to move on from that because uh

796
03:51:38.239 --> 03:51:53.520
the majority of the LP support LPA supports the overnight parking. Okay. So, um, what other questions or comments or anything does anybody have for the applicant or the staff? I've Oh, wait. Let me go to, um, Jason, your your list

797
03:51:53.520 --> 03:52:10.800
of outstanding issues for discussion that you staff recommends for clarification. Clarification regarding timing and enforcability of phase 2 improvements and the removal of temporary facilities. the applicant. John, evidently you have said three to

798
03:52:10.800 --> 03:52:27.359
three and a half years for phase one followed by phase two. Um are are do you stand by that three to three and a half years you would have phase one in place and then you would begin phase two and that's provided that you get all the proper approvals and whatever else.

799
03:52:27.359 --> 03:52:42.160
That's what this says here. >> Uh yes, we're going to try to go as fast as we can. Unfortunately, we're handcuffed by FEMA. So, um, it's totally an estimated. We have no idea when they'll, you know, change the flood maps. So,

800
03:52:42.160 --> 03:52:59.359
>> but your intention is to cons consummate construction and beginning phase two as soon as you have the formal approvals we need from the regulated bodies. >> Correct. >> Correct. So Jason, all of this timeline thing here, if if we don't put timelines

801
03:52:59.359 --> 03:53:16.000
on it, within five years of of an approval, the first phase has to be completed and a development order has to be in place for a second phase. Is that correct? >> Correct. >> And then basically within eight years, you got to complete everything or it goes away

802
03:53:16.000 --> 03:53:30.960
>> or it goes away >> or the un Yeah. The undeveloped portions go away. Does does anybody want anything else in this >> other than that? >> I just want to point out that there is a timing condition in our development agreement

803
03:53:30.960 --> 03:53:46.399
>> as it exists which I'm trying to find it. It's on page 101 of 189 section 10 which the the towns is much more um

804
03:53:46.399 --> 03:54:03.920
lenient than the one we imposed in here but I for the record I can go ahead and read it read it in. So I'm sorry can you hear me now the microphone? Go ahead. So for the phase one uh developer must apply for the DOU or LDO within 90 days

805
03:54:03.920 --> 03:54:18.800
within 90 days of the issuance or the approval will submit for building permits in the event that no building permits are applied within 90 days of the DLDO issuance the uh agreement will terminate. Construction activities must be completed within one year building

806
03:54:18.800 --> 03:54:36.080
permit issuance. Then for phase two, this is where we get into that three three and a half year which is intentionally not included in the development agreement because we can't agree to a condition of which we have no avail you know control over. That's the word I

807
03:54:36.080 --> 03:54:51.520
was looking for. So under phase two uh the phase is contingent upon approval and construction of the wave dissipation wall as well as the the flood map revision. It will likely take 18 to 24 months and here's where the timing comes into play. developer will commence

808
03:54:51.520 --> 03:55:08.479
permitting of the wave dissipation wall within 120 days of the effective date. So start working on the permitting while implementing phase one. Um construction activities will begin within 90 days of permit issuance. Construction of the

809
03:55:08.479 --> 03:55:25.040
restaurant, bar, restrooms, comfort stations will commence once the map revision has been approved and will be completed within one year. and then all mobile operations will cease. So that is the timing I just wanted to point out that we have included that we agree to.

810
03:55:25.040 --> 03:55:39.359
>> Uh there was one other um >> so I do have a question about that. >> What >> the question about that that was unanswered was what happens if phase two doesn't happen? >> Does it all go away or just phase two is no longer valid?

811
03:55:39.359 --> 03:55:59.120
Does phase one cease operation? So in inquiring so inquire so including that sentence that if um nothing's been done then it will terminate carrying that phase one language into phase two as well. >> Sort of what I'm hearing

812
03:55:59.120 --> 03:56:16.640
>> but no I'm asking I I was there was a question on >> and I think part of the question is what if FEMA doesn't move? That's that's why I brought that up originally >> and I think I think I just asked our client um happy to come back before council talk about now we have to amend

813
03:56:16.640 --> 03:56:33.120
the development agreement and word it differently and if we need to to address conditions we can do that at at that point once we know that the map change just in case it does get approved you're >> so wouldn't that be the process anyway

814
03:56:33.120 --> 03:56:47.920
if they can't comply with the conditions that are set forth, they m they have to come back in for some sort of revision. Wouldn't that be the process they would go through? >> Yeah, but there's two different types of that. So, under their timeline, since it's different than the code, I would

815
03:56:47.920 --> 03:57:04.720
suggest including uh and subject to requests for extensions perhaps, something like that because there are extensions, which is the other process in the code, but they're have a different timeline that they're subject to. So, if you're going to be on their timeline, then let's add the extension. So, as long as they came in before that

816
03:57:04.720 --> 03:57:21.920
3 and a half or whatever it is, then they would be able to ask for an extension. >> You want that added is it as >> I would suggest if you're going to go with their timeline, then we then we also include the extensions or either that or it expires and they got to come back and apply for new. Those are the two options. >> Well, we're happy we we understand what

817
03:57:21.920 --> 03:57:39.279
the concern is. We're happy to come forward to council with more detail as to what the timing would be and what the condition, what triggers it and what we have to do coming back to council. >> I think that'd be good because we're trying to, as you well know, Patrick,

818
03:57:39.279 --> 03:57:55.600
nail down 26 projects that have been approved and aren't started. And so, you're going to be a little bit of a a guinea pig in that regard. And your example you said here could matter to us. I would also Jason ask you to respond to if they are rejected

819
03:57:55.600 --> 03:58:11.359
for the other applications in phase two. Um does that terminate phase one? >> It sounds like that was the path. Yes. Y >> unless subject to extensions which they could in theory come >> Yeah, I got that part. But rejection doesn't mean come ask again. It means we're not approving it. I'm talking

820
03:58:11.359 --> 03:58:26.399
about the wave wall and a lot of other things. Correct. They get rejected. It would seem like we terminate the agreement >> because this is a two-phase agreement that that we'd be approving. Um, yeah. Can it be terminated? I don't know the termination process, but yes. Well,

821
03:58:26.399 --> 03:58:42.239
>> so it's either >> trying to build something that they're trying they're going to try to get everything they can get done and we believe them, >> but this has not been in my mind approved yet by anybody for anybody on our beach, etc. Right? >> So, the path to success is not very well defined. Right? So it would seem like if

822
03:58:42.239 --> 03:58:58.000
something happens that this is not feasible, phase 2 is not feasible because it can't get the approvals, the project's no longer approved in the conditions we approved it, would seem like we ought to be able to put some wording in there that triggers that event. >> Yeah. So this is unfortunately this is a really complicated nuanced question

823
03:58:58.000 --> 03:59:13.040
because let's say let's say we went the path and they couldn't get it. They tried 100 times. FEMA kept saying no. They couldn't move forward to phase two. If you expire phase one, you move remove the trucks and then you've got a structure sitting there, right? So,

824
03:59:13.040 --> 03:59:28.160
there's pros and cons to both side. Um, >> why would you want to shut down one if two can't be done? >> Because that's the way this is that's the way this is the way it's applied for. >> It's a phase one. But but is there some

825
03:59:28.160 --> 03:59:44.960
merit in allowing them the time to um and you the time to figure that out before you get to the council? Does it need to be a condition for us? >> I yeah to both. Um I I think we need guidance on how much time you're willing

826
03:59:44.960 --> 04:00:01.680
to give and whe maybe it's more on the FEMA side because of the timing issues or but also the question is what happens to first phase. That's the main question I have. Does it stay forever and >> sees operation in my mind because the whole thing around this remember from

827
04:00:01.680 --> 04:00:18.319
where we started and I think we have such a great opportunity here. Those other mics are on everybody. We have such an opportunity here to nail down these conditional approvals on events happening and time frames of that. So the suspicion was this would become a temporary structure forever. Remember

828
04:00:18.319 --> 04:00:34.960
how it started. So we're getting past all that now. We've got a good plan. It's multi-phaseed. It needs to be multi-phased in order to satisfy the commitments being made today and we just ought to think about how to do that and council may be the best suggestion to have them deal with that but we have an opportunity here put some documents

829
04:00:34.960 --> 04:00:50.960
around it. >> Can I add a comment real quick? Um on it's on page 106 there is an amendment and termination provision. Um, what the LPA could consider is adding an E that sets forth specifically what the concern

830
04:00:50.960 --> 04:01:07.920
is in the event phase two is not completed, this agreement terminates because the way it's written now, it is um pretty much at the option of the developer except for of course if the if

831
04:01:07.920 --> 04:01:24.560
the town agrees can be amended with the party's mutual consent. There you go. >> Is that >> I mean I you you probably will object to it. However, if the LPA puts that in there, then you could revise it at the town council

832
04:01:24.560 --> 04:01:39.439
meeting >> and we would be comfortable having some sort of a condition in there that says put a put a timeline and if we're unable to get the FEMA permits, for example, we then have to come back before LPA and council and revise that phase two. We'd

833
04:01:39.439 --> 04:01:54.640
have to elevate the restaurant perhaps and come forth with one >> not need the way. >> Yeah, but that's a little different I think from what Jim provided. That would be offering the opportunity to come in and amend the agreement which you could

834
04:01:54.640 --> 04:02:11.040
still do under 21A if the town is agreeable to that. But I think Jim, you were looking for more of a concrete automatic >> Yeah. that a phase >> determination to make it >> if phase two isn't completed the development agreement is null and void

835
04:02:11.040 --> 04:02:26.800
>> and there's what I'm after just because it puts pressure on all parties and I know the intentions here are to do this >> are you suggesting >> an E that provides that but then if that's not the um that I don't know that that

836
04:02:26.800 --> 04:02:43.040
would preclude you from coming forth and arguing that 21A if the town were agreeable to extending it than it could. >> Well, how about language where you could you'd be open to amending phase two? Like

837
04:02:43.040 --> 04:02:59.680
this wave wall may or may not get approved or may or may not even work like it's supposed to, but you could amend phase two based on things that might happen like the way wall or FEMA doesn't approve it or something like that. you're going to have to change

838
04:02:59.680 --> 04:03:15.359
your plans, but you could still move forward with a phase two. >> Here's a suggestion. How about we put some language in there that would say that upon finding out, let's say that FEMA has said, "No, we've got

839
04:03:15.359 --> 04:03:31.439
90 days >> to come back before council and propose an alternative or the or or it it would trigger where >> cease operations of >> cease operations." But we do have that time frame where we can come in and maybe say, "Look, we've changed, you

840
04:03:31.439 --> 04:03:45.439
know, we've changed our plan. We're going to elevate the rest. We want to keep totally comfortable with that kind of trigger." >> Okay. So, >> we can e Yeah, but we need we need it now. >> It would be language in 10 another

841
04:03:45.439 --> 04:04:03.439
bullet bullet point or an addition to 10 phase two where you would add that. >> Okay. I'm open to suggestions here. >> To what? Right. Anybody suggesting anything? >> Do you want to take a break?

842
04:04:03.439 --> 04:04:18.560
>> No objection here. >> LPA >> with the intent of coming back with that last piece >> with that with that last piece. >> Yeah. >> Uh I'm ready for a break, but I have one. >> I don't have anything else on my list. That's the compilation of what everybody said.

843
04:04:18.560 --> 04:04:37.760
>> Plus, uh um Okay, so let's Don. Oh, Don. Oh, there you are. What? Doug. >> Oh. Uh, >> yeah. I'm ready for a break, Anita, but I think we need to come back to 10 second bullet. I think you could amend that first sentence, which is pretty, if

844
04:04:37.760 --> 04:04:54.080
I was them, I you know, fa this phase is contingent upon approval and construction of a wave dissipation wall followed by a flood map provision. That's pretty that's >> pretty bold, I think. And in such case though that that did not happen is what

845
04:04:54.080 --> 04:05:10.080
we're >> I think we need to say if if that doesn't happen we need an offramp of some sort that they can amend phase elevate. >> Did you get that? That's a good idea. >> Okay. So listen we're going to take a um let's take a 25m minute break and I'm

846
04:05:10.080 --> 04:30:29.680
going to tell you there's pizza in that room and you're all invited. >> Okay. >> So 25 minutes we'll come back and and uh and you all have to come up for something with this. Right. >> We're back. Um,

847
04:30:29.680 --> 04:30:46.080
okay. Let's go directly to you, Megan, where we left off. You were going to create some language for us for >> correct. and we were looking at um condition 10 in the development agreement regarding timing. So here is what our proposal is says. If phase two

848
04:30:46.080 --> 04:31:00.720
if construction of phase 2 has not commenced within 5 years of the co issuance on phase one, developer must provide written notice to the town requesting extension or modification of the phase 2 site plan. Okay. Condition

849
04:31:00.720 --> 04:31:18.319
10 modified. If construction of phase 2 is not constructed >> in if the construction of phase 2 >> Uh-huh. >> has not commenced within 5 years of the CO issuance of phase one.

850
04:31:18.319 --> 04:31:34.239
Developer must provide written notice to town requesting extension or modification of the agreement. You may have to put termination in there too as an option because otherwise it binds it

851
04:31:34.239 --> 04:31:52.720
continues to bind them >> and I think the developer already has the right to terminate at their own will based on um paragraph 21 >> modification or termination >> extension modification or termination. There you go.

852
04:31:52.720 --> 04:32:08.399
>> Okay. All right. So, um during the break, I um I spoke with John because there was one other concern that was raised and that was about amplified music and I said asked him if he would be comfortable with having the amplified

853
04:32:08.399 --> 04:32:24.800
music be limited to noon to 9:00 p.m. And he said absolutely. So, um uh how do you all feel about that? Are you good with that? Good. >> Love it. >> Wonderful. Okay. Um do uh Jim, do you really want me to go through them all again? >> I do not. No, not at all. I'd prefer you

854
04:32:24.800 --> 04:32:45.600
don't on the record. >> I'll die if you do. Okay. All right. So, um uh any other questions or concerns about this that have uh that need to be raised or addressed? And if not, um are

855
04:32:45.600 --> 04:33:00.800
we ready for a motion? >> Yeah, I'm ready to u make a motion, Madam Chair. >> Uhhuh. And I'm going to need to tag on to your inventory there, but I'll get it started and then we can we can clarify from there.

856
04:33:00.800 --> 04:33:16.959
>> I'll move approval for ordinance 26-02, further known as 6890 EO Boulevard, Old Windham Garden, including the conditions that are inherent in the package recommended by staff. And uh we will add to the staff

857
04:33:16.959 --> 04:33:34.480
recommendations the following conditions. that it be posted for no beach parking or overnight parking in the normal parking lot. That sound curtains or sound mitigation will be installed.

858
04:33:34.480 --> 04:33:50.799
Restrooms will be locked at night. That the parking lot will be attended during all operating hours. Beach access. The beach access uh is available to the public for the duration

859
04:33:50.799 --> 04:34:06.320
of the development agreement to the mean high water line. Mhm. >> Uh that um the landscape in the parking lot

860
04:34:06.320 --> 04:34:23.119
um will contain larger containers or portable plants um if they are permitted by whoever permits it. um that a traffic study be completed

861
04:34:23.119 --> 04:34:39.600
before phase 2 is built and any suggestions or uh amendments be made accordingly. Uh that under item 15 lee dot be added to the government agencies needed for approval.

862
04:34:39.600 --> 04:34:57.039
Um on page 102 and 103 that public improvements um are are never mind. I'm eliminating that. that was about the public benefits because they called them something else. Anyway, um page 104 that deviation

863
04:34:57.039 --> 04:35:13.240
um we are going to add that a hard surface of 100 ft uh be placed as an transition to a sterile boulevard, the apron as it was called. Uh page 106D. Um

864
04:35:13.279 --> 04:35:29.039
uh you know this was something that we didn't discuss about retaining the resort use without the need for Oh yes that 106D that we're going to eliminate the wording uh eliminate without the need for public hearing.

865
04:35:29.039 --> 04:35:44.879
>> Yeah. Um and um a new condition the if modific modifi condition 10 modification. If construction of phase 2

866
04:35:44.879 --> 04:36:03.439
is not commenced within 5 years of the um of the development agreement, the developer must provide notice to the town for extension, modification or termination. Yeah, that'd be the CO ob. That's correct. And that amplified music

867
04:36:03.439 --> 04:36:18.561
is only permitted between the hours of 12:00 p.m. to 9:00 p.m. >> Exactly. >> Perfect. >> I'll second. >> Okay. So, that motion, the motion is made by Mr. Dunlap and seconded by Doug. Madam Chair, just a housekeeping item.

868
04:36:18.561 --> 04:36:34.959
Yes. Um, just for clarification to make sure that the handout that we received today from the intervenor, the PowerPoint presentation from the applicant and all your agenda materials are intended to be included in your record. Is that correct? >> Yes.

869
04:36:34.959 --> 04:36:49.359
>> Thank you. >> Yes. Thank you, Nancy. Um, >> you you can't you can't say anything now. Sorry. >> Um, so, uh, Jane, do you need have something you need to say? Um I I just

870
04:36:49.359 --> 04:37:06.959
wanted to confirm that you had in there the conditions for approval that were that were in the packet. Okay. So there is a motion and a second with the conditions for approval meeting the condition meeting the uh comprehensive plan and uh additional conditions as

871
04:37:06.959 --> 04:37:24.480
stipulated. Um a motion by Jim Dunlap and seconded by Doug Ecman. Any further discussion on this? >> Jim your vote. I >> Doug I. Don, >> hi. >> Jane, >> hi. Jim, >> I'm all for the project, but I'm still

872
04:37:24.480 --> 04:37:41.279
opposed to the overnight parking. So, no. >> Uh, Ed, >> hi. >> And I'm a yes. So, that uh carries six to one. So, thank you very much and thanks for um being a good steward, John. Good luck on your next step.

873
04:37:41.279 --> 04:38:03.119
Okay. Um, next item on our agenda is um, Madam Chair, it is a quasi judicial um, resoning and I failed to mention that at the beginning of our meeting. I I cited that you only had the development agreement and several variances but this one will also be

874
04:38:03.119 --> 04:38:18.959
quasi judicial. >> Yes, it is. This is um this is ordinance 2610 CPD 20250286 1207 Eero Boulevard. This is the Silver Sands Resort. Gentlemen, would you mind? Gentlemen, Mr. Glink, would you all mind

875
04:38:18.959 --> 04:38:34.799
stepping out and having your conversation? That's okay. Thank you very much. Uh this is an ordinance of the town of Fort Myers Beach, Florida, approving approving with conditions or denying a reasonzoning of property located at 1207 Eststerero Boulevard, Fort Myers Beach. generally identified

876
04:38:34.799 --> 04:38:52.719
as strap number 91 9-4624 W40150D 0050 from downtown zoning district to a commercial plan development with 11 deviations to allow for a 60-unit hotel and 2500 square ft of commercial retail

877
04:38:52.719 --> 04:39:10.160
space and 46 parking spaces. Providing for other confl other clarifications is necessary. Providing for conflicts of law, scrier's errors, severability, and providing for an effective date. Um, let's uh start with exparte. Don,

878
04:39:10.160 --> 04:39:28.000
>> no expart. Oh, I'm sorry. I have exparte the same as the other one. I met with the neighborhood company and with uh the attorney for the plan. >> Okay. Um, how about you, Ed? I met with the uh neighborhood company and received uh a couple of emails, not

879
04:39:28.000 --> 04:39:45.600
as many as the last item. >> Uh Jim, >> well, same as that. >> Okay, Jane. >> Same. Doug. Um, yeah, I met with uh Pat Vaness and the attorney Megan Strayhorn on June

880
04:39:45.600 --> 04:40:01.040
10th here at the town hall to review the project and their requested deviations. >> Thank you, Jim. >> Two meetings um one quite a while ago with the neighborhood company and Mr. Toruson when this was originally being

881
04:40:01.040 --> 04:40:17.360
proposed and then last Wednesday with um neighborhood company and their attorney uh went through the revised project and then some emails but that's it. >> Jane >> I want to add that I had two social conversations with um Tom Doruson at

882
04:40:17.360 --> 04:40:33.520
social events just having conversation but I do want to include that. >> Uhuh. So, um, I met with the neighborhood company here last week and, um, I have spoken I spoke with Tom Torus briefly on April 6 about rescheduling

883
04:40:33.520 --> 04:40:49.600
their project. because I I um uh texted him yesterday about um parking and um I also watched Albert's uh demonstration on Beach Talk Radio and um and we

884
04:40:49.600 --> 04:41:06.560
received we received one letter as much as or late as yesterday. Uh and then the emails of record and that's all. Okay. So Jason, any questions? Um, madame chair, if the applicant has any questions regarding the exparte

885
04:41:06.560 --> 04:41:22.958
disclosures. >> Megan Strayhorn on behalf of the applicant. Um, after hearing the disclosures, we have no questions. They believe I saw at least one public comment, but if there was more than that I'm I'm aware of. >> You mean an email, Megan? >> I got we received an email from a

886
04:41:22.958 --> 04:41:38.320
public. >> Okay. Thank you. >> I think that was the only email, wasn't it? Yes. >> Yes. Okay. >> Me? >> Yes, sir. >> Jason Green, Community Development. Hey.

887
04:41:38.320 --> 04:41:54.160
Um, it's an application for reszoning to from downtown zoning district to CPD. Uh, the applicant again located at 1207 Sterile Boulevard. Uh, and then current um commercial or asking for a commercial plan development for redevelopment of

888
04:41:54.160 --> 04:42:10.160
the what was known as Silver Sands Resort. Uh the future landed designation is Times Square mixeduse commercial. Uh the previous resort had approximately 22 lodging units including cottages and villages along uh with accessory

889
04:42:10.160 --> 04:42:26.560
commercial uses and and uh the site was substantially damaged during hurricane Ian. The proposed application includes on the master concept plan site consisting of 60 boutique hotel units, approximately 2500 ft of ground floor

890
04:42:26.560 --> 04:42:43.680
commercial space, 46 onsite parking spaces, rooftop uh pool and amenity deck, canal side activation area and dock improvements, uh streetcape and pedestrian improvements along a sterile boulevard and Primo Drive. Um, just as a

891
04:42:43.680 --> 04:42:57.280
reference, according to the 2040 5 comprehensive plan, uh, the the hotel multiplier was removed the plan from the comprehensive plan. However, it's still in the land development code. Um, and so that's just to compare the uh what would

892
04:42:57.280 --> 04:43:16.240
by right be 18 hotel units versus um the amount that they've asked for, the 60 or excuse me, I'm sorry, 13 by right versus the 60. Uh, the applicant has included a request for 11 deviations from the land development code. Those are all on page

893
04:43:16.240 --> 04:43:34.000
three of your staff report. Um, there's some underlined in there that are uh changes from previous applications just to track those edits. Uh, let's see, there's on page four is a parking

894
04:43:34.000 --> 04:43:51.200
analysis if you want to see that. And it it's is a reduction of about 21% overall from the required parking. >> A reduction of what? >> Parking. >> Yes. But what what percent did you say? >> Uh about I think it's 21%. So under land development code it would be well 86.7.

895
04:43:51.200 --> 04:44:07.440
Um but you can see the breakdown of each from the uh number of units. U the the hard part is it depends on the size of the of the individual unit to do parking. And so generally you just do hotel parking but in our code for some reason it's got

896
04:44:07.440 --> 04:44:23.440
square footages of each unit. So it depends on the and we don't know the individual size of units necessarily. So it's kind of an analysis to say if it was greater than 450 or less than 450. Um do you want me to go over those deviations or do you want to wait for

897
04:44:23.440 --> 04:44:40.638
the questions on that? >> No. Let's uh let's hear from Patrick. >> Okay. And then the applicant has provided a list of uh provisions that they're providing for the general public. And uh based on the findings and conclusions which is in section 34-85

898
04:44:40.638 --> 04:44:57.520
uh B and C, there's some findings there on page 11. We have the applicant's response and the staff's response. If you can see those, most of those findings are in support of that. And then we have provided recommendation of conditions of approval on page 15 of

899
04:44:57.520 --> 04:45:14.480
the staff report and there's nine of those. So do you have any other questions? >> Any question for for Jason at this point? >> Okay, >> Don, any questions for Jason at this moment? >> No, no questions at this moment. Thank

900
04:45:14.480 --> 04:45:34.798
you. >> Thank you. Um okay, Megan, good afternoon again. For the record, Megan Strayhorn, if we could get the There we do have a slideshow. We could get that put up, please. Okay, here for a CPD request. Again, my

901
04:45:34.798 --> 04:45:50.320
name is Megan Strahorn, attorney for the applicant. Um, I will go ahead and introduce the team we have for owner representation. Oh, I always there's got to be a better way. Can I Oh, there. For owner representation, we have Chris

902
04:45:50.320 --> 04:46:07.760
Black from TPI FMB Suites LLC as far as myself for agents, studio ad architect, Albert Damro for our architecture, Braden Fry from JR Evans Engineering. Um, unfortunately, Mr. Trice is unavailable today, but he will be

903
04:46:07.760 --> 04:46:22.798
present for council moving forward. And then also for our planning, we have Patrick Venas with neighborhood company. We do ask at this time for all of the individuals to be deemed experts in their respective fields. They have um qualified before you uh on numerous

904
04:46:22.798 --> 04:46:38.958
occasions um again in their respective fields. >> Megan, I don't I don't know that Chris has ever been qualified as an expert. >> My apologies because he's the owner so he would not be deemed an expert. He's just the order represent representative. >> All right. Very good. >> So, thank you for that clarification.

905
04:46:38.958 --> 04:46:55.638
>> Yeah. I would say he has personal knowledge of the project. I would say he does, but he also hasn't been sworn in today because he came. >> Yeah. So, if you speak when you speak, if you want to speak, Chris, you'll have to be Okay, go ahead, Megan. >> Um,

906
04:46:55.760 --> 04:47:11.520
did that work or did somebody >> It did. Yeah. >> Okay. Maybe I found the sweet spot. This is a re reszoning request. This parcel is currently um this current is currently zoned as downtown. They're requesting to reszone it as a commercial plan development to allow for a boutique

907
04:47:11.520 --> 04:47:27.600
hotel. It'll be a top of six stories, but that's really only in the center as well as 60 boutique suites included therein. In reviewing the staff report, I do just want to kind of set out that overall it's a very favorable staff

908
04:47:27.600 --> 04:47:44.160
report. Um, very favorable in deviation analysis, land development code analysis, comp comprehensive plan analysis. But there were a couple areas that seemed a little bit inconsistent and I I don't know if I want to get into this right now or kind of address it as

909
04:47:44.160 --> 04:47:59.600
we move into the presentation, but I did just want to point out there is a couple areas that um seemed supportive and then included kind of a does not conform type and and specifically that's pertaining to the analysis under land development

910
04:47:59.600 --> 04:48:14.400
code section 3485 when it's discussing consistency with a comprehensive plan. Um, some of the staff comments appear, and I'm not trying to speak for staff by any means, so please Jason, correct me. Some of the staff comments appear that

911
04:48:14.400 --> 04:48:31.200
there um, uh, analyzing this development. Is it consistent with the downtown zoning district and saying that it is not consistent? And we would agree, which is why we're coming before you requesting a reszoning to CPD. But I

912
04:48:31.200 --> 04:48:46.718
think generally speaking it this there is consensus between applicant as well as staff that this is consistent with the 2045 comprehensive plan. And again this is another application that went in during that process of before the 2045

913
04:48:46.718 --> 04:49:02.638
comprehensive plan was adopted. So you're kind of see both analyses and Jason already touched on the fact that we're still in this midst of the land development code has equivalency factors for lodging units but the comprehensive plan sets forth that transient units are

914
04:49:02.638 --> 04:49:17.680
um developed or uh measured by intensity by F. So I think that's all that I really wanted to get out in the open beforehand. Um again this is a CPD this is quasi judicial as Nancy has already

915
04:49:17.680 --> 04:49:33.520
pointed out. Uh we have uh presented uh staff report is before you all. Patrick has created his analysis that is included in this pack packet that is included for your review and it is included part of the record and there

916
04:49:33.520 --> 04:49:49.040
has been very limited um public comment. So hopefully we can get through this smoothly. And now you can listen to Patrick tell you how he feels at this time of day. >> Thank you, Megan.

917
04:49:49.040 --> 04:50:06.320
>> Get your feet up, people. >> Good afternoon. For the record, Patrick Vaness, certified planner with the neighborhood company. Um, hey, I feel the exact same way I did this morning. So optimistic, always a little cautious.

918
04:50:06.320 --> 04:50:23.280
I think uh that's what uh people like Chris pay me for is to not be overly optimistic and uh always be weary. So with that said, um we can move forward. The first slide is uh a location map. Uh

919
04:50:23.280 --> 04:50:40.638
subject property is 74 acres. It is located at the intersection of Primo and Eststerero. Uh moving on to the next slide. Um the property was first developed in the 1920s. Um and those were thatch roof little

920
04:50:40.638 --> 04:50:55.760
cottages. Through the years there's been a lot of changes and um as we all know um the whole development was destroyed by Hurricane Ian. uh TPI came in

921
04:50:55.760 --> 04:51:11.520
subsequent to the storm and purchased the property and we are here today asking for the CPD reszone. Um this is a an aerial showing what was there pre-in like I said over the years uh the units

922
04:51:11.520 --> 04:51:27.040
changed quite a bit. Some of these are are more like the park model type of villas um that are a little bigger some of them are a little smaller. Uh we had the dog house at the very intersection of uh Primo and

923
04:51:27.040 --> 04:51:43.840
uh Eststerero. Um it was a hot dog stand for those that don't recall. Uh and we had uh parking lot right along Eststerero and um while it was a a great little cottage development,

924
04:51:43.840 --> 04:51:59.920
um vehicular movements were always a bit of an issue. Uh so you had all that parking that would back up directly into stero and all these uh cottages basically also had backing up movements onto Primo. So I think we've

925
04:51:59.920 --> 04:52:16.080
consolidated that and improve the conditions quite a bit in what we're going to be presenting you to you today. So, right after Ian, the site was cleared and the way it's been used uh since Ian is for um employee parking

926
04:52:16.080 --> 04:52:31.440
um for Maritville and also they were letting other construction entities use the parking lot. Uh we have uh the sheriff's station also along Eststerero. Um just want to point out that TPI does

927
04:52:31.440 --> 04:52:47.200
have off-site parking at Buttonwood. Um, obviously this is available. It's it's easier. It's more practical at this time, but that would shift over to Buttonwood in the future. So, moving on to the next slide. As mentioned, we are asking to reszone

928
04:52:47.200 --> 04:53:04.878
the subject property. Um, the underlying base zoning that we had there was there was five existing platted lots. Um and as mentioned we have provided an analysis to you of both from a density

929
04:53:04.878 --> 04:53:21.280
multiplier what we're asking for and also to point out that we are in the um times square mixeduse district according to the 2045 comprehensive plan. Again, this is an area that calls for higher

930
04:53:21.280 --> 04:53:40.000
densities and densities. Um, areas where again uh an acknowledgement that additional height may be appropriate. Um, so we are in that district. The F, which is now our uh preferred way to

931
04:53:40.000 --> 04:53:55.680
measure intensity and commercial hotels, uh we are allowed to ask for up to 2.5 F. And the request for this property is a 2.0. Um, future land use category. Uh, we were in the pedestrian commercial

932
04:53:55.680 --> 04:54:12.718
district. We are now in the Times Square mix district. Zoning uh is downtown. We're asking for CPD. Uh, the property is vacant and uh the surrounding properties, what we have on the slide here has changed to the north. The

933
04:54:12.718 --> 04:54:29.040
property was vacant for a while. Now, it's been uh redeveloped by a large um residential home. Um it's being advertised as a vacation rental with six bedrooms. Um so, while it is a

934
04:54:29.040 --> 04:54:43.040
residential, it functions quite a bit like a a little guest house or hotel. Um to the south of us, we have a stero rightway and uh Margaritavville.

935
04:54:43.040 --> 04:55:01.200
Uh to the east we have uh Primo uh and then on the other side we have uh the whale and a residential property. Uh to the west we have vacant commercial and canal abiding us.

936
04:55:01.200 --> 04:55:19.200
So as mentioned I'm not going to next slide please. Okay we are on it. Um, no need to go through this in in in a great deal detail, but uh again, mixeduse district identified as an

937
04:55:19.200 --> 04:55:35.840
appropriate space for greater intensity. um a a place that is walkable and a place where we have critical mass to create this downtown feel to bring the uses close to the street uh to create

938
04:55:35.840 --> 04:55:52.000
kind of a certain energy and feel to our downtown um and um to foster pedestrian uh activity. So, one of the things that you'll see as part of our request is a

939
04:55:52.000 --> 04:56:06.878
reduction in parking and with the understanding that people travel dri differently. We are in the downtown district. There's a lot of uh foot traffic and uh we are enhancing amenities associated with uh that

940
04:56:06.878 --> 04:56:23.520
pedestrian aspect. Um and we'll go through that. But uh some of the things we're doing is we are widening the sidewalk along a stero uh to provide for a 15t wide sidewalk. Um we are providing

941
04:56:23.520 --> 04:56:40.480
street furniture uh in a little plaza at the intersection of Primo. We are going to be providing decorative pedestrian barriers to funnel pedestrians to the appropriate crosswalk and overpass at Marwavville. Um and um

942
04:56:40.480 --> 04:56:55.120
we are going to be providing uh some landscaping along that uh ride ofway to uh give it a a better look and feel and that will be very similar to what uh Margaritavville has done along Crescent

943
04:56:55.120 --> 04:57:10.718
Street. Um so as mentioned this is a boutique hotel. Um, we believe that the scale and um the the nature of a boutique hotel

944
04:57:10.718 --> 04:57:25.520
fits in well within this district on this property. Again, it is um a different animal than than a Margaritavville. It creates an intensity gradient um from a little more intense

945
04:57:25.520 --> 04:57:41.760
downtown. And as you go east um you have that density gradient. It is not located right at the base of the bridge. I know a lot of times we talk about the view from the bridge. This is

946
04:57:41.760 --> 04:57:59.520
uh to the outside of the direct view and I think it's a good spot where we are are asking for a little additional height but I think it's in keeping um with what fits in that area. We've got some renderings that show the massing and show the scale and I think it fits

947
04:57:59.520 --> 04:58:17.840
well with surrounding uses. Um, moving on to the next slide. This is our master concept plan. Again, master concept plan is the regulatory plan that will be contained in your ordinance. Um, what you see as the dark gray, that is the

948
04:58:17.840 --> 04:58:34.798
building footprint. Um the orange area to the front is where the 2500 square f feet of uh commercial uses is uh relegated to. Uh that will contain the hotel lobby and some kind of a retail.

949
04:58:34.798 --> 04:58:51.760
They haven't defined that yet exactly what that's going to be. Could potentially be leased out to a tenant or they could use it as a maybe some kind of a a boutique for uh the hotel. the concept behind this hotel. Um, if you

950
04:58:51.760 --> 04:59:08.638
recall when Marvel went through the hearing process, um, for lack of a better word, they got squeezed a little bit and when they got squeezed, they weren't able to provide as many suites as they wanted. Uh, so

951
04:59:08.638 --> 04:59:25.360
this boutique hotel is going to be an all suites hotel. Um, the idea is it doesn't need amenities on site because TPI would be more than happy for people to enjoy their nice suites, walk over to Margaritavville and have some drinks or

952
04:59:25.360 --> 04:59:41.920
go eat at one of the restaurants there. So, it's a complimentary hotel. Um, and I think it'll will offer those suites. Uh Albert will talk about the design of the building, but the what uh Tom was

953
04:59:41.920 --> 04:59:59.200
directing Albert to do was I want views from every room. I want every room to have a balcony. And um when doing suites, we're not doing the old school little kitchenet. Um, we know that we are targeting and attracting uh a

954
04:59:59.200 --> 05:00:15.280
different demographic and that we would prefer having a big screen in the living area with a wet bar and a nice maker where people can gather, have some fun, and then go out on the town. Uh, so that is kind of the the concept behind the

955
05:00:15.280 --> 05:00:32.240
design. Albert's going to talk to you all about that design in great detail. But I think we've got a greatl looking hotel and it's always fun when you work with Albert because uh you know you're you're getting the A team. So um

956
05:00:32.240 --> 05:00:47.600
>> so uh also a few things I want to point out. Uh the areas in that kind of yellow mustard uh color are the pedestrian improvements that we're doing. Uh yes, the sidewalk along Primo is required. We

957
05:00:47.600 --> 05:01:02.638
acknowledge that. But we do widen the sidewalk in front of the sterile. We provide that plaza. We provide some of the street trees that are called for in the comp plan. Um the area uh by the canal shown in green is going to be a

958
05:01:02.638 --> 05:01:19.280
landscape lawn area. Uh what we envision there is that at some point there's going to be some uh wedding parties that are going to stay at the hotel. Um, and if they want to have a cocktail hour or something by the canal, that would be an area where we're asking for coop, so

959
05:01:19.280 --> 05:01:35.200
consumption on premises where they could serve alcohol there. Um, we were asked as part of these preliminary meetings, we are asking for a bar use as part of our list of uses. We have no intent on um building a bar that would be open to

960
05:01:35.200 --> 05:01:51.280
the public. That's not the intent. The idea is that we also have cop uh on the rooftop where there's a rooftop pool and deck and uh there might be a cart service where there's a bar up there for the patrons. Uh again, not open to the public. And when we do have special

961
05:01:51.280 --> 05:02:09.600
events either for a wedding, chamber event, we don't want to have to go back to council every single time for a special events permit. So by having that use included in the CPD and we are happy Anita to limit it uh to uh just for

962
05:02:09.600 --> 05:02:27.600
guests and and patrons of of the hotel that it would not be open to the public. Um also last thing to point out is the parking is all under the building. Um, and you see kind of the outline under

963
05:02:27.600 --> 05:02:43.280
the the darker gray. We do have a nice looping area that we designed for potential stacking. Uh, this being a boutique hotel, they don't expect like a major rush on a Saturday with

964
05:02:43.280 --> 05:03:00.160
everybody's coming in uh coming out and you need a lot of stacking for cars. But we did build that in where we've got quite a bit a bit of stacking there so people can come in, go to the lobby, check in, and then park and go up to their rooms. Right now, and we're going

965
05:03:00.160 --> 05:03:17.360
to talk about this a little later, uh the the design calls for self parking. Uh but as we talk about uh parking issues, uh there could be an option that if needed, they they could valet and get more parking spaces under the building.

966
05:03:17.360 --> 05:03:41.920
Um, with that said, uh, I will let Albert talk about the design and then I'll come back and address some other issues afterwards. >> Good afternoon. Um, I do need to be sworn in. I got here late, so I figured >> do you solemnly swear that the testimony

967
05:03:41.920 --> 05:03:58.798
you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? >> I do. >> Thank you. Thank you, Albert. >> Albert Gamros, suit architect for the record. Um, just going to keep it brief. I know Pat did a transition here to me, talk about a lot of details on it, but just trying to keep it simple. Um, we

968
05:03:58.798 --> 05:04:15.120
were tasked with Tom and Torus and TPI and Chris Flag, of course, to coming up with something unique, compatible, and as an architect, these are things that are marinating in our head as a creative juices flow. Um, yes, the request to have old views of the beach. Um and what

969
05:04:15.120 --> 05:04:30.320
I mentioned while before is sometimes form follows function. Um and that sometimes leads to certain architecture is unique. So what we did with we radiate the angle of the buildings and rooms a little bit. I think it's a lot easier to build a rectangle building, a square building. Those are always

970
05:04:30.320 --> 05:04:55.440
cheaper in construction um but leads to sometimes very boring facades. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Here you go. a vowel like an E. >> There we go. >> It's voice active Alexa.

971
05:04:55.440 --> 05:05:12.160
>> Um, you started with a just traditional brillian rectangles. We try to push and pull and one of the things about architecture is for me is like every building needs to be pleasantly placed in this position and context. Um, so taking the rooms and rotating and angle them with to get these beads views, these balconies, you end up with a

972
05:05:12.160 --> 05:05:28.718
little more of a layered facade. Um, the balconies and projecting a lot of the commercial design standards you guys have in your land development code um allude to these kind of things that are favorable. Uh, balconies that project over the rideway um, and creates kind of

973
05:05:28.718 --> 05:05:45.520
a connection between inside and outside. Obviously across from this building we have the rightway of the parking uh parking lot there the pool. So we're clear obstructed view to the Gulf. Um that leads to obviously next.

974
05:05:45.520 --> 05:06:02.958
>> You got it. >> You got it. >> You got it. >> I'm good. >> That's true. I went too far. >> Very good. Must be the long arms. I don't know. Um and of course colors is important as well too. I think trying to find a blend. Sometimes too stark bright

975
05:06:02.958 --> 05:06:18.480
colors, sometimes too white doesn't fit in certain locations and so we have a more of a muted soft tone color to kind of balance the colors from the Margaritavville resort um compared to the colors that are also been painted on the whale right now. So trying to find a medium on there. Um Tom did provide us

976
05:06:18.480 --> 05:06:33.840
some color direction as well too. I think were variable. They were very favorable for the palette of this particular um building design. Uh the rooftop pool obviously most of it is concealed with the roof overhangs on the top roof. Um there's glass railing that you'll be able to see from the

977
05:06:33.840 --> 05:06:50.878
perimeter. You kind of can see a little preview up there in the top area. Um again the pool being on the top is also a challenge as well too for construction, but this allows um more privacy up there as well. Um and looking down Primo, you can see

978
05:06:50.878 --> 05:07:05.920
the facade of the balconies. The railings add to a lot of scale. Um the commercial space down below, picking overhangs and um landscaping and pottery and plants to the courtyard there with the flag all kind of relates more to the human pedestrian scale as you're walking

979
05:07:05.920 --> 05:07:26.958
down the stereo. And then of course we're getting into the height here as well too. I think this is Patrick. You're going to go back on this. >> Okay. Um, so of course we presented of course in the front here we have the five stories in a front portion of the building. If I go back actually one

980
05:07:26.958 --> 05:07:43.840
slide you can see see it better. I guess the next slide it's actually a good one right here. The left side's obviously facing the stero. That's the lower portion. The right side facing the north property uh that Patrick mentioned is the new rental house. That's the lower portion. It's only the middle

981
05:07:43.840 --> 05:07:59.680
portion and top portion that it pushes up to the sixth floor. Uh we went with a butterfly roof just to kind of cut down the height, kind of create some unique spaces for those um larger suites that are up there to get some more natural light up in the well too, but also cut down the massing cuz sometimes doing a

982
05:07:59.680 --> 05:08:15.600
traditional hip roof adds a lot of height to the building that's not beneficial to the actual end use of the particular project. Um the ground floor all parking of course that's all open. The retail portion the front that's facing the stereo. The small portion is 2500 square feet. That's all been

983
05:08:15.600 --> 05:08:31.600
designed to be dry floodp proofed. Of course, the program will come in later on. That's just simply going to be the check-in for the hotel. That's the only portion is dry floodproof on the ground floor. Obviously, everything's designed through all the current FEMA standards, flood elevations, you name it. Um, these are all going to be built for

984
05:08:31.600 --> 05:08:48.798
resiliency. Everything from the mechanical systems to electrical to plumbing systems. Obviously structurally um everything we're doing nowadays these are all concrete and steel buildings um so resilience is actually really important for us with everything we design and we also just go beyond the minimum of the codes

985
05:08:48.798 --> 05:09:14.000
uh with that said I'll just change over back to Patrick >> oh sure >> got to say Jeez. >> Oh, get away. Oh, there we go. >> Uh, most simplistically again to in the ground floor starting from the left and

986
05:09:14.000 --> 05:09:29.360
the top floor being a far right. On the far left, you'll see the purple and everything colored in purple is what we're counting as a floor area ratio. So, it just jumps out to you graphically in the plan. Um, the things that you see in yellow on each of the floors starting from second to the roof are all the

987
05:09:29.360 --> 05:09:46.160
exterior balconies are excluded from the calculation of FAR. Uh back to the ground floor. That purple is the 2000 square 2500 square foot footprint of commercial use. The rest of it is parking, elevators, stair towers, egress, um circulation into the site. Um

988
05:09:46.160 --> 05:10:02.000
floors 2, three, four, and five are pretty much carbon copies of each side. Um you can see the radiating plan that allows better views of the Gulf. Um also a little bit more privacy. Um again, these are suites. Um you these are

989
05:10:02.000 --> 05:10:19.120
onebedroom suites on the roof. These become two-bedroom suites cuz on the top floor those are the larger units that are on the pool deck itself. Um and this is not a terribly huge pool deck. I It's enough to have a little more of a cozy feel of going in a pool, having the view

990
05:10:19.120 --> 05:10:36.000
of the Gulf, have a place to lay down. as mentioned the remote um cart bar uh bar on there on the roof for just the customer service on uh feeling restrooms on this top roof deck to comply with the health department and of course the rest of it is just the bigger suites are on

991
05:10:36.000 --> 05:10:52.958
the top floor. Uh mechanical systems are also screened in the back side. Um although that's facing the north side they are screened by parapit walls which are just walls that go past the roof line itself to screen all that. So when you're coming over the bridge and you're seeing mechanical systems on roofs,

992
05:10:52.958 --> 05:11:08.240
these are things we're going to be shielding from that. So even from a higher standpoint, you won't see the mechanical systems on the roof as well. So just another layer of things that we do because we care overall how the building is. And also those parapits do protect mechanical systems. So they

993
05:11:08.240 --> 05:11:24.080
block the wind, they prevent things from flying off the roof as well too. And also adds to the architecture as well too. So you're not seeing all that stuff. Yeah, thank you. Okay, if we can go uh back two slides

994
05:11:24.080 --> 05:11:43.360
and look at the height exhibit uh the one before also. There you go. Okay. Um what this slide shows us is uh the height request and what we've

995
05:11:43.360 --> 05:12:00.480
presented here is both the zone height uh and the zone height for this uh project is 58 ft. Again that's from uh design elevation to under the uh eaves of the roof. And

996
05:12:00.480 --> 05:12:14.798
then we also have the actual height which is from grade all the way to the very top of the roof and that is 70 ft. Um as mentioned the majority of the building is five stories and that's

997
05:12:14.798 --> 05:12:34.480
inclusive of the ground level parking and in the middle of the building um that's where we have the tallest component and the sixth story. Moving forward, uh, next slide. Right there. Uh, again,

998
05:12:34.480 --> 05:12:50.958
this is just without the footprint of the building, showing the parking, showing again the loop where we've got the potential for stacking. Um, next slide, please. Um, next.

999
05:12:50.958 --> 05:13:07.360
Okay. Um, we will talk briefly about density and intensity. Um per the new 2045 comp plan the measure of commercial uh intensity is your F. Uh as mentioned

1000
05:13:07.360 --> 05:13:24.320
we can request um up to 2.5. We are requesting a 2.0 F. Uh also as Jason mentioned we're kind of a in a weird stage where the comp plan's been updated but the LDC has not been updated yet. So the LDC is still there

1001
05:13:24.320 --> 05:13:40.480
and we have to address it and we did that as part of our application. Uh what we indicated is we had 22 units, five of those as a base. We had five planted lots. Um if we were to apply the multiplier

1002
05:13:40.480 --> 05:13:57.040
um and that's on the next page, please it would be a multiplier of 12 that would bring up bring us to 60 units. Uh next slide, please. So um we just have the math right there. Um

1003
05:13:57.040 --> 05:14:14.958
base density of 5* 12 gives us our 60 units that we are requesting. And um we also have a calculation for the F uh 74 acres times the 2.0 and that gives us a floor area of

1004
05:14:14.958 --> 05:14:35.760
um 64,468. Um, we've shown clearly what is counted as part of that, what is not counted. The balconies that were shown in yellow are not counted as part of the F. And also at ground level, the parking is not included in that calculation. And that

1005
05:14:35.760 --> 05:14:52.958
is consistent with the 2045 comp plan that says that parking under the building is not part of that calculation. Moving forward to the next slide, please. Um we did conduct a uh transportation analysis. Um the

1006
05:14:52.958 --> 05:15:09.840
conclusions are just highlighted there in green that the uh project will not have an undue burden on the adjacent roadway network. Um but we are cognizant that traffic is always a hot issue on Fort Myers Beach and we are trying to

1007
05:15:09.840 --> 05:15:26.878
find means of mitigating uh for uh potential or perceived impacts. We will participate in the drag program. We will provide bicycles to all our guests and we will have uh bicycle parking on site. Like I said, we are going to improve the

1008
05:15:26.878 --> 05:15:42.638
pedestrian amenities by widening the sidewalk. We are also going to provide a crosswalk uh right at um Primo and we are going to do our very best to

1009
05:15:42.638 --> 05:16:00.560
funnel everybody uh to those crosswalks. So, what we know is that when you get to downtown, there's a lot of lot of people, a lot of pedestrian activity. People jaywalk and the motorists tend to stop. Once in a

1010
05:16:00.560 --> 05:16:18.160
while they don't, but most of the time they do and they let the pedestrians go by. Uh, and that slows down the flow of traffic. So, what we are proposing as a benefit is to put a pedestrian barrier that would be on the side of um

1011
05:16:18.160 --> 05:16:37.280
Eststerero where Margaritudville is, where the pool is. It would be a nice decorative barrier. And what that would do is it would prevent I'll get a picture for you in a second. Okay. And um it'll prevent the jaywalking,

1012
05:16:37.280 --> 05:16:54.480
hopefully funnel everybody to the crosswalks. And at Margaritavville, uh if everybody is funneled there, they can either wait till they are told they can cross or just go up the stairs and use the over uh overpass how it is intended

1013
05:16:54.480 --> 05:17:16.160
and hopefully that improves the traffic flow. So, um, if we can turn I've got I'll get the page number here to slide number 36. So on slide number 36, top right corner is a depiction of where the property is

1014
05:17:16.160 --> 05:17:33.200
in green and then the portion where we would have a pedestrian barrier. what you see on the right side, the bigger picture, and uh this is in Orlando, close to Disney, and the folks at Disney uh do things right. They don't want people jaywalking back and forth. What

1015
05:17:33.200 --> 05:17:50.878
you can see uh towards the back of the picture is an overpass leading to the parks. And what they've got is they have a pedestrian barrier all along the sidewalk. So people cannot jaywalk and cross. They they get funneled to the overpass and use the overpass. Next

1016
05:17:50.878 --> 05:18:07.120
slide, please. And I know this one is a little hard to see. This one is in Sedona, Arizona. Um my partner Kent just went on vacation there last year. Took a bunch of pictures because he thought that was a great use of the pedestrian barrier. >> Very good looking.

1017
05:18:07.120 --> 05:18:24.000
>> Uh yep, they they make it very attractive. Um obviously they can choose any design. I would assume that uh when they go to to get this done, they will use a kind of >> tropical >> tropical motif, maybe something a little

1018
05:18:24.000 --> 05:18:41.200
uh Jimmy Buffetesque for it. So, but it'll be attractive. I think it it it it can look good and it really serves a purpose. So, going back to where we were on the slides. >> So, it's really a fence. >> Yes. >> But a pretty fence,

1019
05:18:41.200 --> 05:18:55.600
>> but a a good-looking fence. >> Yes. Uh if we can go back to slide number >> say something. >> 23 please. >> Hey Pat, it's only on one side of the street, right? >> Yes. Yeah. >> So if people

1020
05:18:55.600 --> 05:19:12.480
get decide to cross and then they get in the middle of the road and then see the barriers coming up. >> Well, I Yes. Um, can we sometimes we can't design or legislate for stupidity, >> but uh I I think it's it's a question of

1021
05:19:12.480 --> 05:19:28.878
people will see it. People will know. People are not supposed to jaywalk in the first place, >> but I think they will see the barrier and they know that they can't get there and hopefully they will go to the proper crossing areas. >> Can I ask a couple of questions before we get to the parking?

1022
05:19:28.878 --> 05:19:45.120
>> Um, >> so we're on the record. What's the height of Margaritavville? Uh the height of Margaritavville I believe is >> 54. >> Do you recall? 40 54 >> and that's total height or zone height?

1023
05:19:45.120 --> 05:19:59.920
>> It's total height. >> Total height 54. So uh Marville has four stories. So we have one and a half two stories more than they do. >> So we just we're between 54 and 70.

1024
05:19:59.920 --> 05:20:16.080
Right. Just so we're on the record. Yep. >> Did anyone look at what a the view view would be from the top of the bridge um over the top of this building? I mean,

1025
05:20:16.080 --> 05:20:31.600
we saw renderings, you know, when it was Margaritavville as to whether or not the view would be affected. Um >> was that study? I don't think we created an exhibit unless um >> Albert has that in his arsenal, his 3D

1026
05:20:31.600 --> 05:20:47.040
modeling that he's done. Um but >> it would be a good idea. >> I don't recall seeing that. But what we did look is are we >> are we directly at the base? Are we in that immediate view shed? And and yes, you can see the property, but when you

1027
05:20:47.040 --> 05:21:04.080
go on the bridge, you kind of have to look to the left and you see kind of the the sheriff station right there. Um, again, we thought that we're not blocking that direct view. We thought that made sense, a little extra height on the periphery, and we thought that it

1028
05:21:04.080 --> 05:21:21.280
kind of fit well. And the first exhibit that you saw from Albert kind of shows from the beach, the scale, the size of the property. And even though it's a little taller, I think from a a scale standpoint, from a massing standpoint, it fits in the overall context.

1029
05:21:21.280 --> 05:21:36.798
And do you know the width of Primo? Some some of the uh emails we got questioned whether two-way traffic get even get by each other. Now >> it it talked about uh I think it suggested uh that the road was 20 ft wide.

1030
05:21:36.798 --> 05:21:52.958
>> You suggest that the road is 20 ft wide. >> I think on the on the email it said that. >> No, the email said that it's between 13 and 16 feet wide. >> Okay. I I do not recall that

1031
05:21:52.958 --> 05:22:10.000
>> it is very difficult to have two cars on Primo. >> Very very difficult >> and and I don't know I think Brandon at one point you may have looked at it and and Brandon's going to check. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> Um any other questions or should I move on

1032
05:22:10.000 --> 05:22:25.200
to this slide? >> Go ahead. >> Okay. Um so what we have there is we have our parking calculation and as Jason mentioned depending on the room size the parking ratio is somewhat uh

1033
05:22:25.200 --> 05:22:43.200
different. So we we have an allocation of rooms of the 60 rooms 36 would be under 450 square ft which creates a uh requirement of 1.2 two parking spaces and for rooms greater than 450 square ft

1034
05:22:43.200 --> 05:23:00.160
um the ratio is 1.5. So we start off we look at the requirements um with without any reduction uh we're looking at 86.787 spots being in the downtown we are given

1035
05:23:00.160 --> 05:23:18.638
a 33% reduction uh we are providing bike racks so that reduces the parking also by one spot so our code required parking is 57 spaces we are asking for 46 6 that is a 20 21%

1036
05:23:18.638 --> 05:23:36.798
reduction from code. Um so some of the things that we've discussed is we've got off-site parking for employees. Um so that is at Buttonwood. Uh also we were asked how many employees do you think at

1037
05:23:36.798 --> 05:23:53.440
any given time? So what we were told peak uh days since a lot of the back uh back of the house and back office things will be h handled by TPI employees but at Margaritavville um they're estimating

1038
05:23:53.440 --> 05:24:09.760
peak days five employees on site that would be it um and uh like I said the parking can be off island at Buttonwood also from the standpoint of Um, we've talked about this before for other

1039
05:24:09.760 --> 05:24:27.040
projects. Travel behaviors are different. People are using Ubers a lot more. Um, and um, we believe that at 46 that should be sufficient parking to meet the demand, but we also have contingencies. So, should there be uh an

1040
05:24:27.040 --> 05:24:43.840
issue, we can always valet this. Right now is not intended to be valet, but we could valet that and stack more cars under. And uh there's also the opportunity depending on on how what the conditions are and what um the volume is

1041
05:24:43.840 --> 05:24:59.600
at Margaritavville that the parking could be shared with them when feasible. Um and there's also as we talked about if there's a demonstrated need at some point down the line that they could enter into an agreement with uh another

1042
05:24:59.600 --> 05:25:16.878
place offsite for joint parking. So, um, >> imagine >> as as we, you know, we're we're not going to go back to the conversation we had earlier today. I don't think we need to do that. It's

1043
05:25:16.878 --> 05:25:33.280
been said, you're aware of what I'm thinking, what my thoughts are. But just moving on to the next page. Also, >> you're very transparent. you saw a similar exhibit uh when um which one was it? Salty Krabs came forward.

1044
05:25:33.280 --> 05:25:49.280
>> So, we updated uh this exhibit. We looked at all the public parking available within a onem radius and we have 722 parking spaces. >> How many? >> 722 parking spaces.

1045
05:25:49.280 --> 05:26:07.280
>> Not including Mr. Tequila, right? >> No. Pat, a couple a couple of questions on the parking. Um, >> when we met, we had some discussion about um the fact that while TPA TPI

1046
05:26:07.280 --> 05:26:22.718
may have both sites now, the Silver Sands is a different brand could could be sold separately. Um, and that was there any consideration given to having a parking agreement between

1047
05:26:22.718 --> 05:26:41.120
Margaritavville and Silver Sands that would survive potentially any type of sale um for both Buttonwood and Margaritavville. So that um there would be a a parking option. I guess the second getting to

1048
05:26:41.120 --> 05:26:56.560
overnight parking. Yeah. Um I don't think any of these parking lots that you're these 700 spots though would allow overnight parking. So um an agreement with Margaritavville might cover that. >> Yeah. And and that's a question for

1049
05:26:56.560 --> 05:27:15.718
Chris really and um I I I will let Chris answer if you'd like to address that of would that agreement make sense between uh Margaritavville and Silver Sands. >> Oh, he didn't swear. He is attorney, but he's a he's a nice guy. So,

1050
05:27:15.840 --> 05:27:32.320
>> pardon me. >> Um, >> excuse me. >> Well, so so uh he needs to be sworn >> get sworn in first. >> You got it. Okay. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

1051
05:27:32.320 --> 05:27:47.360
>> Yes. >> Thank you. Um, as far as parking goes, uh, uh, we've been operating Margaritavville now for, I think, three years. On average, uh, overnight guests, about 70% of our occupied rooms drive. And so when you

1052
05:27:47.360 --> 05:28:04.080
look at the parking for the 60 rooms, 60 times 70% is about 42. And so our, based on our history, we do feel that the 46 stalls is sufficient for overnight parking. uh for the 60 rooms. I don't think we'll need a a parking

1053
05:28:04.080 --> 05:28:20.798
arrangement. That can certainly be something that we could talk about. Um but um from from our experience, it is this is sufficient um from a from a >> Yeah, I guess even if it was in the event of a sale, some type of agreement would be arranged. Maybe not necessarily

1054
05:28:20.798 --> 05:28:36.400
now, but that's a contingency, you know. >> Understand the Yeah, I understand the point, >> Chris. uh the in the event of a sale is being raised because it was specifically raised in this email that we received because the property is still listed for

1055
05:28:36.400 --> 05:28:51.840
sale. And so, you know, something that we've all experienced lately, what I don't know if you know this or not, is you know, somebody an applicant saying, "I'm going to do this. I need this. I want this." Whatever. And then it's going to get flipped. And it's

1056
05:28:51.840 --> 05:29:08.240
discouraging to us. Um, so I'm just going to ask you how you feel about that and, uh, do you, uh, if this project is approved, um, I'm under the understanding that TPI intends to construct, operate, and own this

1057
05:29:08.240 --> 05:29:24.480
project. So, is there a reason why the property is still for sale? >> Do you want to comment on that? >> I I I don't I don't know. U, I think I think we we we did list it for sale as a as a vacant land. Mhm. >> Um I was not aware it's still actively

1058
05:29:24.480 --> 05:29:41.200
listed. >> Um >> neither was I, but somebody has brought it to our attention. >> Uh and so that that um I'll need to investigate that. Um uh but it is it is our TPI's intention to develop the the hotel as planned if the council does end

1059
05:29:41.200 --> 05:30:03.280
up approving it. Um we we do we we do feel it's a feasible project. Um and that is something that we can put the shovel in the ground pretty quickly on. >> Okay. Thanks, Chris. >> Um, I was talking to Brandon. Um, he got the measurements of the property

1060
05:30:03.280 --> 05:30:21.200
property. The the width is approximately 15 ft for travel lanes. Um, because we have our property and there's going to be a little extra space. It's going to widen it by about another foot. So, plus or minus 16 ft. I think there the only road that might be more narrow on this

1061
05:30:21.200 --> 05:30:37.920
island is Myiramar, >> also a tiny little skinny street. >> Um >> the the only analogy that comes to mind and um that I'd like people to think about is we I I've worked on multiple

1062
05:30:37.920 --> 05:30:54.080
bike ped master plans. We put together the first bike ped master plan for Lee County. Um, and in planning theory, there's this idea of, do we provide sidewalks on every local street? And some people are proponents of sidewalks

1063
05:30:54.080 --> 05:31:09.600
everywhere. Other people say, look, you've got a small narrow street. The design of the street, the narrowness makes it that people don't drive fast and that you don't need uh a sidewalk. You let people walk in the street. My my

1064
05:31:09.600 --> 05:31:25.760
local street is like that. My neighbors walk around all the time. And typically it's a social event. Someone goes by, neighbor stops, pulls down the window, and they have a chat. But it it's a it's an environment where people are slowing down, paying attention, and yes, it's

1065
05:31:25.760 --> 05:31:45.680
tight. I don't think um vehicles are going to have head-on collisions. I think people will take their time and uh move to the site and make sure that uh the crossing movements are safe. It's it's an existing conditions. It's been like >> it is an existing condition, but it's

1066
05:31:45.680 --> 05:32:01.200
exacerbated by a hotel. And I understand the concern of the Primo residents. I really do understand it because I've been up and down Primo. And if you remember back in the day when the doghouse was there, that was huge, huge issue for them. And the beached whale is

1067
05:32:01.200 --> 05:32:16.480
also a huge issue for them because of truck deliveries. So, you know, I mean, as we get further along here, I Chris, I want you to think about this because I think that if there was valet parking, some sort of

1068
05:32:16.480 --> 05:32:32.160
monitored parking, uh you might be able to get people off the street faster and, you know, eliminate uh the self-parking notion. it just something to um to

1069
05:32:32.160 --> 05:32:49.360
temper the impact that that's going to have on Primo because it's going to have an impact. >> We we're uh we're going to give it some thought. >> You give it some thought before we get to the the uh >> and just a few things though from a design standpoint that we did is it was very important for us to uh really

1070
05:32:49.360 --> 05:33:07.040
reduce the access points. again used to be a free-for-all that everybody could back on into uh onto Primo and uh onto Eterero and we've really limited that. And we what we did is we consciously decided to do one egress and one uh

1071
05:33:07.040 --> 05:33:22.558
ingress again to create that flow to reduce the amount of conflict of you don't have a car coming in to the same access point, someone leaving. It's circular. People are leaving from a different point. people are coming in from a different access point and we've

1072
05:33:22.558 --> 05:33:40.958
created that uh pretty long stacking uh loop again to make sure that no one is backing up onto uh Primo. So, we've given this uh quite a bit of thought. We designed accordingly. Again, uh it's always tough when you have uh existing

1073
05:33:40.958 --> 05:33:58.320
constraints and you can't really um expand your rideway, but um we'll we'll give it some thought. Patrick, is the uh the parallel parking on Primo, is that in your parking? >> It's fully within our property. >> No. Is it in your account?

1074
05:33:58.320 --> 05:34:13.680
>> It's within your property. >> Yeah. >> Oh, it's not Primo. >> Yeah. No, it's not Primo. >> But is it in your account? >> It is an account. Yes. >> Okay. >> It's within your property. >> So, moving to the next slide. Um,

1075
05:34:13.680 --> 05:34:29.280
what we have here, and I'm not going to go through all this. I'll just give you a few highlights. Um, it's in your packet. We we have uh an extensive narrative talking about consistency with the comp plan. We when we initially

1076
05:34:29.280 --> 05:34:45.440
submitted, we were just um talking about the consistency with the old comp plan. We updated that before uh we came to hearing and in your packet you do have uh treatment of how we're consistent with the new 2045 comp plan. But some of

1077
05:34:45.440 --> 05:35:00.320
the highlighted in the bolded areas I want to uh pull up. So uh future land use um policy 182 uh encourages pedestrian oriented public amenities such as benches, bike racks,

1078
05:35:00.320 --> 05:35:16.240
trash receptacles. We are providing that um um flu policy 1 B2C5 and the two others right there. uh they acknowledge and support greater intensity of use in the times square

1079
05:35:16.240 --> 05:35:32.000
area and the pedestrian commercial district and uh they call for a maximum F of 2.5 as mentioned we're u we're under that maximum at 2.0 0 um

1080
05:35:32.000 --> 05:35:48.958
flu policy 1B2C5 and the two other ones right there identify F as the proper mechanism for measuring intensity. Uh so while we are providing that conversion ratio your comp plan says uh F is the

1081
05:35:48.958 --> 05:36:04.558
measure of intensity. Um on the next page, please. Um policy uh CD1 A2 talks about creating the Times Square mixeduse district and uh talks about

1082
05:36:04.558 --> 05:36:21.200
this district is the main tourist and entertainment district which will accommodate the most growth in terms of height and density. Um, so the rest is associated with your 1999

1083
05:36:21.200 --> 05:36:37.840
comp plan. I'm not going to go through those, but uh just so you're aware, it is part of your packet and we feel we've demonstrated compliance with the old and with the new comp plan. Um, if we can jump to page uh slide number

1084
05:36:37.840 --> 05:36:54.878
28. Um, as part of our application packet, we also have to address compliance with the land development code and the CPD review criteria. Uh, that is part of your packet and it's also part of the

1085
05:36:54.878 --> 05:37:10.080
staff uh, report that you have where each item or response is provided and then you have a comment from staff if they concur support um, our assertions. And as Megan mentioned, generally

1086
05:37:10.080 --> 05:37:28.638
speaking, um the report was very supportive and concurred with some of our findings. I think the the biggest departure, as we know, was associated with the parking. Um so, next slide. Um again, I apologize

1087
05:37:28.638 --> 05:37:45.600
if I took liberties with public benefits or or I called them special benefits. Again, some of this stuff um we may have to do, but I'll go through some of those. The pedestrian barrier uh we are providing. We think it's a great

1088
05:37:45.600 --> 05:38:03.840
benefit. Uh the enhanced sidewalk along um is is a benefit. uh the p called it public realm enhancement but it's really that plaza right at the corner where we're putting bike racks,

1089
05:38:03.840 --> 05:38:19.040
benches, street trees. Um we are going to participate in the drag program. We're going to provide bicycles. Um the hardened and resilient structures. Yes, we have to meet building code. We acknowledge that. But it's always a

1090
05:38:19.040 --> 05:38:36.000
benefit for the island to have better, stronger buildings. Um, positive economic impact. Again, those that will be in the form of advalor taxes, back taxes, employment, and secondary impacts to other local businesses. Um

1091
05:38:36.000 --> 05:38:52.638
unfortunately the status of our elementary school is uh not very encouraging but um should we move forward with a charter school on this island they will do the same as they're doing with Margaritavville they will educate their staff and they will also

1092
05:38:52.638 --> 05:39:09.200
provide flexible uh schedules for um people to drop off their kids and pick them up. Um and um last but not least um what is being proposed is helping in the redevelopment re revitalization of

1093
05:39:09.200 --> 05:39:25.040
downtown. I think this quality boutique hotel is a different offering. I think it's very complimentary to what we have there and and I think a lot of people when they think of uh wanting hotels uh and hotel rooms on this island uh I

1094
05:39:25.040 --> 05:39:41.600
think this image of a boutique hotel is always very appealing and definitely um meets a market demand. So next page we have uh the various deviations. I'm not going to go through those one by one, but if you do have

1095
05:39:41.600 --> 05:39:58.160
questions about the deviations, please um uh let me know what those questions are. We can address those right now. Um otherwise, I will jump to um slide number 33.

1096
05:39:58.160 --> 05:40:16.638
Uh this is the latest data provided by the uh Lee County Visitor and Convention Bureau. Um, essentially we are not back to where we were pre-Ian. Um, we're at approximately 60%

1097
05:40:16.638 --> 05:40:34.320
of active rooms back online. Um, this is smaller boutique hotel contributing 60 units to that uh that trough that we currently have. Uh but again all these little smaller hotels uh will create a

1098
05:40:34.320 --> 05:40:51.440
benefit and um get that number up over time. Um so next slide this is our conclusion. So, um, in my professional planning experience,

1099
05:40:51.440 --> 05:41:09.280
um, I believe that the proposed CPD and the proposed hotel is consistent with the old and the new comprehensive plan and that we meet or exceed uh, all LDC requirements. Um based on the expert

1100
05:41:09.280 --> 05:41:24.320
testimony that we have provided, based on the um backup documents, application documents that we have provided uh based on our presentation today and uh staff

1101
05:41:24.320 --> 05:41:41.280
the staff report. Um, we respectfully request that you um recommend approval for this project and um I think we looked through the conditions where we we were fine with the proposed conditions from staff.

1102
05:41:41.280 --> 05:41:56.558
>> Thanks Pat. >> Thank you. >> Um questions. Jen, are you >> Yeah, I don't know if this is best to start with uh Pat or with Jason, but the staff did not find that the deviations

1103
05:41:56.558 --> 05:42:13.280
complied with the code. Is that the recommendation I'm reading here? >> Uh no, there's a I think there's a few of them that seem to be sufficient. If I go back and look at some of these, it was uh primarily parking, I think, is what they mentioned was the objection. And um that was one is one of the

1104
05:42:13.280 --> 05:42:29.520
deviations. Yes. >> If I can if I can address that. >> Is that the only deviation the staff had an objection to? >> Well, I think there was some language also where the way Uma phrased it is

1105
05:42:29.520 --> 05:42:46.240
that um we're not consistent, but the way she I think what she was meaning is we are not consistent with our base downtown zoning. That's why we're asking for the CPD and that's why we're asking for more density because we have a deviation associated with more density.

1106
05:42:46.240 --> 05:43:00.958
>> Yeah. So I I think the the challenge of that is when you say something's consistent not consistent with your surrounding area or neighborhood, how are we measuring an apples to apples from project to project. And so one of the ways typically has been done to do

1107
05:43:00.958 --> 05:43:17.440
that is using that multiplier. But we're not using the multiplier anymore. So, it's it's kind of a challenge to say, "Yeah, that's fine. It's consistent because then you go to height and then you got some of those issues." So, um we were trying to bring that issue up and probably could have done it in a more

1108
05:43:17.440 --> 05:43:33.680
clear manner. Uh but comparing them and using that as a tool for you to think about how did this how does this compare to the neighborhood is why we brought it up to pass point. We weren't necessarily trying to say it's not consistent with that part because he's right that that part that came out of the comp plan. the code has that requirement for the um the

1109
05:43:33.680 --> 05:43:53.680
multiplier and then it's a judgment call whether you think it's uh sufficient for the neighborhood. >> Very clear. >> Yeah, it's not clear at all. >> There's not a criteria to evaluate against that. That's the short version of it.

1110
05:43:53.680 --> 05:44:12.878
>> I'm becoming a zombie. I'm worried about this parallel parking on Primo. I I mean, like I said, I've driven down the street many times and now you've got 15 ft of space, supposedly two-way

1111
05:44:12.878 --> 05:44:29.280
traffic, and now you've got parallel parking spaces that are going to back out because I mean, they're on top of each other, so chances are they're not going to pull forward out of it. I mean, that could happen, but I um I I just

1112
05:44:29.280 --> 05:44:44.878
have a real concern about this, especially the space that is up closest to um Eststerero Boulevard that's going to interact with all the beached whale uh activity. I I just I I know this is

1113
05:44:44.878 --> 05:44:59.680
on your property, but that impact to Primo is um is intense. So if you eliminated those spaces and increased your

1114
05:44:59.680 --> 05:45:16.798
uh ask for parking deviation, I it would minimize that. It would minimize that tremendously. >> Actually widen Primo then the length of their property. >> You could I but what good does that do because at the end of it it narrows again

1115
05:45:16.798 --> 05:45:32.718
>> except it helps the intersection of this. >> It does help the intersection. Yeah, it does help. So, I'll just give you our thought process and and how we we came up with this. And >> um I I will pose a question also to Caris of maybe we look at this going to

1116
05:45:32.718 --> 05:45:49.520
council, but from a design standpoint, we're faced with a requirement and obviously we want to keep our uh parking reduction as small as possible. And if you look at the width of the property, there's only so many aisles we can put

1117
05:45:49.520 --> 05:46:07.040
in there. and we don't have enough width to create like a an additional aisle. So that was there was >> they did stacking like they do at Margaritavville. >> Yeah, there was space on the property. So we put this as parallel. Um that increased our account and uh made us

1118
05:46:07.040 --> 05:46:22.480
more compliant with the requirements. Um we we could ask for a greater reduction. Um I again I I don't know if you know are you better off asking for a greater

1119
05:46:22.480 --> 05:46:39.840
reduction or eliminating those spaces. Uh if we did eliminate those spaces we can uh we can provide more landscaping. >> Do you know how bad people are at parallel parking? >> So not only that but >> kids nowadays can't do it >> unless they've got a smart car. Button

1120
05:46:39.840 --> 05:46:57.360
these parallel parking spaces are so that for someone to park there, they've got to go down the street somewhere, turn around and come back to these spaces, >> loop around where they're going to where are they looping >> in into they come under the building,

1121
05:46:57.360 --> 05:47:12.400
loop around and come back out. >> So, they go into the parking garage, come out, and then go into that. >> Yeah. >> I I think this is this is a mess. I I I I I'm gonna hope that you can figure something out else out here. I mean,

1122
05:47:12.400 --> 05:47:27.440
Brandon, you're the expert over here. This it just it's like just knowing this area, this impact is going to uh is going to be dramatic. >> What's your concern about increasing the

1123
05:47:27.440 --> 05:47:42.958
reduction request by those few spaces? >> You know, right now, it's nine spaces. >> I'm not the one that that >> can make that decision. I want to run it by my client. Um, as as Chris mentioned, they kind of saw that soft spot maybe at

1124
05:47:42.958 --> 05:47:58.878
about 42 spaces. >> Um, does that kind of start hindering them if we reduce it even more? I think that's something we can definitely discuss between this and council and come back with an answer and come back hopefully with a solution.

1125
05:47:58.878 --> 05:48:16.240
>> And and you know, I I never saw how it works, but I understand it works well. the stacking at Margaritavville. Maybe that's an option here because you'll have the height ability to do it. I I don't know. It's it just to me this is a big complication.

1126
05:48:16.240 --> 05:48:34.000
>> Yeah, it's I think it's something that we can definitely address and maybe not make a decision on the spot right here today because I think it's it's got to be evaluated. Um, you know, the stacking you're talking about is is uh dollars are involved. If I, you know, I had the

1127
05:48:34.000 --> 05:48:49.280
authority to write a blind check and if it wasn't my money, I might just do it right now, but I've got to run it by the client. >> Okay. >> Questions on that overlay picture. >> Your microphone. >> Do you know what slide we can bring back the >> on that overlay picture?

1128
05:48:49.280 --> 05:49:02.958
>> It's um >> the circulation pattern one. Uh >> the parking uh the Yes, the parking is circulation. Yes, that's right. >> So, you have that overlay picture. >> That is slide number 19, please.

1129
05:49:02.958 --> 05:49:20.638
>> And there's 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 eight cars in that shadow. >> What is in that space where those cars are now? And is this wall um along here all all the interior all the parking spaces back

1130
05:49:20.638 --> 05:49:36.480
out into each other? So there's actually, you know, one, two, three more parking spaces there if that's a solid wall. So there could be one, two, three, four, five, six. >> Well, it just need the parking needs to

1131
05:49:36.480 --> 05:49:52.240
be redesigned. >> 10 slide 12, please. >> It really does. >> The other way. >> What slide is this? I mean, look, you know, for two-way circulation on a street, it says that you need 20 to 24

1132
05:49:52.240 --> 05:50:09.600
feet for two-way circulation, and Primo only has 15. To further constrain it would be uh a bad idea. >> Okay. Do you find it? No, not there. >> Which one are you talking about? >> They're not.

1133
05:50:09.600 --> 05:50:28.000
>> Oh, no. If you go to the one with the overlay picture on it. >> Slide number 39, please. >> There. Oh, no. >> There. No. >> No. >> No. >> Well, um, >> well, that one is it. Um, you can count

1134
05:50:28.000 --> 05:50:44.798
the cars there. Are I'm talking about at the back of the property. There's eight across there, or however many, six, seven, eight, nine going down the side. And where those cars are backing out, that's a solid wall. So that

1135
05:50:44.798 --> 05:51:02.558
that could be >> Yeah, we we had, you know, >> Yeah, I'm talking about those and down and then stop at the bottom. Yeah, exactly. Why can't that be parking? >> That's that's their open space. If you look at the back,

1136
05:51:02.558 --> 05:51:16.240
>> that's where >> Well, but they could give up the street spaces, open space, >> which would be a benefit. >> You're not going to hold it. You're not going to have a wedding on Primo. I mean, >> that would that would affect both our

1137
05:51:16.240 --> 05:51:33.680
buffer for the neighbor and our green space area for uh potential events on the water. Plus the the difficulty of the way it's stacked right now on that aerial is people have place to maneuver in that entire parking lot because it's

1138
05:51:33.680 --> 05:51:49.520
not built up. >> They have a way to maneuver in the parking lot. They don't have a way to maneuver on Primo. >> Yeah. But if you if you put parking there, you would also need a drive aisle to get them there and a turnaround. So it would eat up way more space than that. >> Oh, all these rules.

1139
05:51:49.520 --> 05:52:07.920
>> Um >> you guys were talking I I just wanted to kind of chime in that area is that we are discussing or not with that north area is going to be uh the proposed lawn. But I think what we are hearing Oh,

1140
05:52:07.920 --> 05:52:25.600
>> I was going to say what we are hearing. >> Megan, let Brandon talk. He never gets to speak at these things. He sits through these hearings and he never says a word. >> Let him say something. >> Yeah. And I was told I was a tall glass of water at the 7-Eleven this morning. But uh

1141
05:52:25.600 --> 05:52:45.120
>> Brandon, say your name for the record. >> Brandon Fry. And I was not sworn in yet. >> Oh. >> Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth? >> I do. >> Thank you. >> So, um I I was trying to talk to six

1142
05:52:45.120 --> 05:52:59.520
different people at the same time, so I think I'll just summarize and you guys kick me if I'm misspeaking. Um, so we talked about it and I think that we're okay getting rid of those spaces along Primo. So now the question is what do we do? You know, do we do we increase the

1143
05:52:59.520 --> 05:53:15.920
deviation or do we try to find a way to use that lawn area in the back? Um, I think that that's something that we can look into. It feels awkward to me, but it's potentially possible. Um, but for the purposes of today, I think you tell

1144
05:53:15.920 --> 05:53:30.638
me. I think that we're comfortable getting rid of those spaces along Primo. >> You'll come back with a recommendation at council with an alternative. >> That's correct. >> To revoke and and perhaps the alternative is just the increased deviation. Um, you know, but >> but ideally the the the alternative

1145
05:53:30.638 --> 05:53:48.080
would be to somehow, you know, I don't know, magically uh create more parking within your interior >> of stacking or stacking something. >> Yeah, it it's an awkward space, but hopefully we can get something back there. Okay. Well, good. Thank you.

1146
05:53:48.080 --> 05:54:05.520
>> Well, thank you. >> You finally got to say something, Brandon. >> And he solved the problem. >> I've got nine follow-up questions for him now. >> There are no problems, only solutions. >> That's right. Well, really, even thinking think about the intersection

1147
05:54:05.520 --> 05:54:22.400
there. That that one little car right there is a mess. >> And that that could improve the condition there. Okay, go ahead. Where are we Patrick? >> Um, >> you were wrapping up as I recall. >> It was You're wrapping up because where

1148
05:54:22.400 --> 05:54:38.798
>> Jim has to get to higher so we we have to move things along. >> We were on page 34, which is the >> concluding slide. >> That's what I thought. >> And as as I said, we respectfully request a recommendation of approval.

1149
05:54:38.798 --> 05:54:54.878
>> We have uh looked at uh staff's conditions. We support those. um your recommendation to look at parking and eliminate that along Primo. We've provided an answer for that. Yes. Uh we will be ready to to do that for council

1150
05:54:54.878 --> 05:55:11.760
and um happy to answer any questions, address any comments. >> Okay, Don. Questions of um of staff or the applicant? >> No, none for me. Thank you. >> How about you, Ed? >> None for me. >> Jim, >> none. Jane,

1151
05:55:11.760 --> 05:55:28.558
>> careful. Jane, >> come back to me in just a second. >> Uh, Doug, >> um, no questions. Other than I would just make a in my opinion, I would go for reduction and or increase the parking reduction request and not try to

1152
05:55:28.558 --> 05:55:44.240
squeeze parking into the green area. And maybe uh you'll have more open space along Primo, which would be a nice amenity to have a little more landscaping along Primo. No questions. So, >> uh Jim,

1153
05:55:44.240 --> 05:55:59.200
>> agree totally with Doug's approach. Make it look nice and find the other things. No questions. >> Okay. Um C could I just touch on the um on the green space? When I met with you, I was

1154
05:55:59.200 --> 05:56:17.120
concerned about amplified music here. Um uh so how would you feel about a uh a condition that um it does not allow amplified music in that small space? You could have ambient but not amplified.

1155
05:56:17.120 --> 05:56:33.440
>> No no no bands, no just you could still have music but just no no live music. No no no hoopla >> acoustic. No Metallica space. >> Okay. Because it is a small space, Chris. Right. >> It could be live but not amplified. You're saying

1156
05:56:33.440 --> 05:56:49.840
>> I I would see like a cello or maybe a harp. >> A three a string quartet, something like this. Okay. All right. So, um so amplified music. Okay. >> Okay. Um

1157
05:56:49.840 --> 05:57:06.480
Okay. Anybody else have anything? I I think I those were those were my things. >> I guess I need to ask and maybe it was >> my ap my apologies. I was just speaking with Chris and so regarding the amplified music, can we include something just in the rare event that

1158
05:57:06.480 --> 05:57:20.958
they would like to have a harvest or a chist um to have it be a special permit type um thing moving forward? >> Sure. You could ask for a special event permit. >> Yes, you're great. >> Sure. >> Yeah, but that doesn't You could do

1159
05:57:20.958 --> 05:57:36.480
that. You could do that. Okay. Uh Jane, >> can you tell me how many how many hotels are involved in the do not rent a car thing? >> Well, I do not have that number. >> Nobody that has built or opened a hotel.

1160
05:57:36.480 --> 05:57:53.600
>> Okay. So, you're going to participate in it. How how would you do that? because >> so so I think very similar to what uh other commitments from from from other uh hotels would be to have it on the website to inform all the guests that um

1161
05:57:53.600 --> 05:58:07.920
we >> it's marketing >> we we'd like to reduce the number of um cars on the island and to provide them some kind of a a voucher monetary benefit from not driving onto the island

1162
05:58:07.920 --> 05:58:24.240
and it could be access to some kind of activity ity uh where it's discounted. It could be a voucher for one of the restaurants or the bars, but it would be an incentive for them to not drive. And we can define that better um by the time we get to council.

1163
05:58:24.240 --> 05:58:41.200
>> Okay. >> Anything else, Jane? >> No. Somebody had asked about um what the room sizes were and they're between 939 square ft and 965 ft. >> Okay. >> Uh we we have um I'll let Albert answer

1164
05:58:41.200 --> 05:58:55.680
that exactly. But we've got a bunch of rooms that are under 450 ft² >> and the pen houses on top are the the largest ones. Those are >> two bedrooms and those are probably more in the 900 ft 600.

1165
05:58:55.680 --> 05:59:11.680
>> Yeah. So, so some uh just a little under the 450 and some >> I'm counting too much >> in the plus ratio. Okay, never mind. >> That's >> okay. Any other questions for the staff or the applicant? Um Jason, you have

1166
05:59:11.680 --> 05:59:33.120
anything to add to this discussion? >> No. >> So good. >> I mean, I can if you want to have a discussion, but no. >> Patrick, anything else you want to add? >> Nope. >> Uh let's see if there's any public that would like to comment. There's none. Uh so we'll close the public comments.

1167
05:59:33.120 --> 05:59:47.840
>> I can't believe there's no public here. Well, I mean, we only got one letter, so >> Hey, what about me? >> Can I comment? >> You can. >> Okay. Thank you. >> You'd like to put everything on record in the package? >> Oh, yes. Do that first.

1168
05:59:47.840 --> 06:00:04.638
>> Okay. So, um we'll we'll in we'll make that part of the motion. >> How's that? >> To include everything that uh was distributed in the packet and said at public comment to be uh included in the in the >> Okay. So there is um there is a court

1169
06:00:04.638 --> 06:00:21.200
case in a far far away jurisdiction that um does perhaps put some limitations on um a local government's ability to regulate am not ambient um >> amplified >> amplified music. So I'm going to speak with um the attorney and we'll figure it

1170
06:00:21.200 --> 06:00:38.000
out if we're okay or if we need to modify that language a little bit. >> I'm not going to touch it. Okay. Uh all right. So, um if if there's no other um discussion, would somebody like to make

1171
06:00:38.000 --> 06:00:53.760
a motion to this uh project? First, let me just say this, Albert. I commend you because every project should have this level of detail when it comes to us. It allows you to really see. Imagine if this was something else. We would have

1172
06:00:53.760 --> 06:01:09.760
never seen those parking spaces. We wouldn't have seen the detail. We wouldn't have been able to place ourselves. And you do a great job at that. a really great job. >> His team and Brandon actually >> and Brandon Well, Brandon, good. Good job. >> He's already spoken once.

1173
06:01:09.760 --> 06:01:26.680
>> It really >> it helps the community understand what's coming. So, okay. Who'd like to make a motion? I'd make a motion to approve ordinance 26-10 CPD 20250286

1174
06:01:26.718 --> 06:01:43.920
1207 Eststerero Boulevard including 11 deviations nine conditions set by the staff elimination of the parking on Primo >> the parallel parking >> that parallel parking parking on Primo.

1175
06:01:43.920 --> 06:02:00.480
Um, a clarification on amplified music and inclusion all exhibits and emails that have been presented as part of the record. >> I'll second. >> Jane's going to second, but could I just

1176
06:02:00.480 --> 06:02:17.360
have have you say that um I'm I'm asking that amplified music not be allowed in the open green space and Nancy said she would >> That's correct. >> She would. So, >> so your recommendation is to not allow it. >> Not allow it. We'll figure it out. Do you agree with that? That's right.

1177
06:02:17.360 --> 06:02:33.600
>> Okay. And you agree with that? Great. Okay. So, we have a motion and a second. And um uh any discussion? Jim >> I. >> Jane. >> I. >> Ed. >> I. >> Don. >> I. >> Doug.

1178
06:02:33.600 --> 06:02:48.480
>> I. >> Jim. >> I. >> I'm an I. The motion carries unanimously. Congratulations, folks. >> Thank you. Chris, it's nice to see you today. >> Anybody that wants to talk sports, World Cup, >> we we want you to go away now, Patrick. >> Now, you're welcome, Patrick.

1179
06:02:48.480 --> 06:03:04.718
>> But you did a good job. >> Get those polishing shoes out of here. >> All right, let's move on to the administrative agenda because I just heard that uh Mr. Dunlap's driving to Ohio right now. So, do you want to go? >> He's going only to >> I know you can leave if you want. >> No, no, no. I got something to bring up.

1180
06:03:04.718 --> 06:03:21.680
>> Um administrative agenda, anything? uh LPA members and and reports. Jim, >> can I ask um since we've had to do this since third grade and particularly around FAR, it seems like we are always um processing or translating when we get

1181
06:03:21.680 --> 06:03:37.280
a FAR calculation how they got there. Is there something we can do in our process procedures to show your work where they will present any going forward FAR calculations to show the numerators, the denominators, the components, etc. So we can those of us that do that kind of

1182
06:03:37.280 --> 06:03:54.080
thing can inquire, confirm or challenge because it's too nebulous today and we have to take words and >> well they did a good job. >> They did a good job. Very good job. Part of why I wrote it down everything in pink. Yes, that was >> so I don't know how to incorporate that into what we do, but if we can put some sort of an expectation out there that

1183
06:03:54.080 --> 06:04:10.000
that's an extra bonus points or gold stars or whatever it is, I'd like to see that math on these deals. We've had fars change during presentations. >> Oh yeah. And we need to see that math in my mind. >> Yeah, I agree. >> I agree. >> Okay, it's all I got. >> Okay. >> Um, Doug, anything? >> No, ma'am.

1184
06:04:10.000 --> 06:04:25.760
>> Jean? >> Okay. >> Jim, >> no. >> Ed, >> no. >> Don, anything? >> No. Thank you. >> Okay. I >> I am I am not going to be at our August meeting. So, I'm just going to tell you >> August meeting. >> We do. August 11th is when the regularly

1185
06:04:25.760 --> 06:04:42.558
scheduled LPA meeting would be. Um uh and and I just want to bring up again that I think we need to be talking about the particulars of development agreements. I'd really like to revisit development agreements. Um public benefits. When are we having an LDC

1186
06:04:42.558 --> 06:04:59.600
update? When does that start with us? And the FAR could be part of the LDC update. Shouldn't there be a requirement that somebody outlines it? You know, >> they do. So there's two different conversations. what they're counting and what we count. So that's a discussion I

1187
06:04:59.600 --> 06:05:14.638
can't >> but the only one that matters to us is what we count. But then they should show us that in comparison. >> No, I mean it does what it doesn't. I mean you just you you say you got an example that you liked but at the same time they're excluding part of the building. >> That's that is a discussion of debatable topic.

1188
06:05:14.638 --> 06:05:30.320
>> That's true. >> Um you should start with yourself Jason and make them prove you wrong. >> So we do and so the answer but they can ask for something else. So the answer is it's the building, right? And we have the definition for that. We can show it to you and then we can go through all of that. >> Just have a page on FAR, just the

1189
06:05:30.320 --> 06:05:45.680
numbers and they can bring a page on FAR. >> Yeah. >> And we can debate what's included and what's not. >> Sure. >> It would be so healthy for the public. >> It's it's more about what you're willing to exclude than what is included because it's the building. The box is

1190
06:05:45.680 --> 06:06:01.200
>> they want it smaller. They're going to want to exclude. >> Correct. And you heard me. I mean, you can't pretend you're lower because a building disappeared off of your calcs, right? That's that's the only thing I would warn you against is don't make a oh that we don't count that building. That's not a way to do the math. But um yeah, we can try to we have I think

1191
06:06:01.200 --> 06:06:17.680
there's a presentation given a couple years ago. We can dust that off and show what the box is and buy our code and um and then the rest is up to the case by case. I can tell you if you stick that in a packets, I will bring that to any interactions I have with them and ask them to lay their paper next to yours.

1192
06:06:17.680 --> 06:06:34.400
>> And then I can do that math right there and spun. >> Sure. >> Know where we are. Thank you. >> That's a great I great idea. Um, anything else? Nancy, anything from you? >> Um, no. I think I've said enough today. >> Yeah. >> Jason, anything from you guys? >> We were going to talk about all of that on August 11th, but now we'll

1193
06:06:34.400 --> 06:06:48.638
>> talk about it. I just won't be here. >> Just kidding. Yes. Uh, understood. We got to schedule the LDC stuff and all that now. >> Wonderful. >> Yep. >> All we look forward to that. Okay. Well, thank you all. Have a very good summer and uh thank you very much, Jim.

1194
06:06:48.638 --> 06:07:03.000
>> Bye-bye, everybody. >> That's good. >> Oh, that was a good meeting. I know it was long, but All right, go get breakfast.