here we go good morning everyone this is a regularly scheduled meeting of the fort Meers Beach local planning agency it is 9:00 a.m. on Tuesday March 11th 2025 at the moment we have one member jimon uh absent otherwise everyone is present would you please stand for the
invocation and the Pledge of Allegiance IED ALG to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liy and justice for all oh um may we all have patience and
Grace to do the best job possible for the town of Fort Meers Beach amen amen amen amen first item is an approval approval of the final agenda does anybody have any changes or additions so V thank you Jim second and thank you uh John uh any
objection to the motion motion carries unanimously next item is an approval of the minutes for February 11th 2025 any changes or additions if not may I have a motion move thank you Don second by by Doug any objection to the motion motion
carries unanimously next item is public comment and there is no public here oh wait a minute she could be public no car is not public car is a presenter do you have public comment car um so we'll move on to our public hearings and we have uh two public
hearings today both of which are variance requests um and we'll start with V go ahead we'll start with Nancy Wai judicial in nature yes they certainly are um yes you do have two variances before you and just a reminder that these are Quasi judicial and this
requires that this these public hearings that they comply with procedural requirements that have been established in Florida law as well as in Your Land Development code um your proceedings today are going to be less formal than proceedings before a circuit court but
um they will be more formal than the rest of your um discussions today we have to follow basic standards of due process that require certain notices the application of the correct standards in your code and in Florida law and your decisions need to be based on competent
substantial evidence that's presented to you in written documents or through oral testimony your job is to evaluate the testimony and the information for each item then draw a conclusion regarding whether the criteria in the Land Development code or state law has been
satisfied so pure speculation or opinion is not considered competent substantial evidence however um in evaluating um testimony you you can uh consider testimony by experts they have been
viewed as um providing competent substantial evidence in Florida courts as well as testimony by neighbors and residents of the island who have fact-based information um or personal knowledge of of the situation fact-based information
can take the form of minutes surveys engineering reports so anyone in the public that is going to speak today please keep my comments in mind when you come forward please state your name clearly for the record and whether or not you have been sworn in you have two
variances before you today and um your town code provides that a unanimous decision by eligible voting members of this body the LPA to approve a variance shall constitute final agency action
subject to a request by anyone for an additional hearing or review of the matter by the Town Council if that requ re EST for an additional hearing is received by the town clerk within 10 days so I just need to ask the town
clerk have the two uh variance items been properly noticed yes they have been okay have a comment on that neither one of them had a posting of at the site I don't believe that that is a
requirement I think that is a courtesy Sarah if you want to comment yes that is considered a c courtesy um I thought we were doing that now so I thought we asked for it to be done yes um so I will there's so many empty lots you got to figure out what you're talking about I I
agree um so I will I'll be speaking with staff again about that this morning thank you thank you um also at this time I need to ask if anyone has any conflicts with the two V uh variances that are on your agenda today um please disclose that at this time so we can
ascertain if we have a quorum that's present does anybody have a conflict no no conflict none okay that was very quick um any Witnesses who will be providing testimony this is a a time to go ahead and uh we ask that you be sworn in so
anyone uh providing testimony if the town clerk would please um swear them in okay do you solemnly swear and affirm that the testimony that you about to give is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth okay all parties have been sworn well part communic
ations um Mr D you want to read the title for the first one uh sure I'll read that before I ask Dan is trying to steer me thank God a resolution this is v202 50015 for 702 Estero Boulevard it's
a res a resolution of the fort Meers Beach local planning agency approving with conditions variance 20255 requesting four variances from LDC table 34-3 for the proper property located at
702 esto Boulevard generally referred to as strap number 24- 4623 w300 400. z8e in Fort Meers Beach to vary from required Street setback rear setbacks
and side setbacks to build a new single family structure in the RM zoning district and providing for other clarifications as necessary providing for conflicts of law scribers errors severability and providing for an effective date um Jim any expart no how
about you Don no Doug no ma'am J John no and I have none okay so we'll begin Eli are you guys able to hear me well yep okay good morning Eli Le planner for the ton of for Mars Beach um the property owner um is requesting four variances
for a proposed SLE family res residence in or zoning District the applicant requesting a variance of 16 ft from the required Street setback resulting in a street setback of 9 ft uh the second variance is a variance of 12' 6 in from the required rear setback resulting in a
rear setback of 7' 6 in the third variance is a variance of 2' 6 in from the Southside required setback resulting in a side setback of 5T in the final fourth variance is a variance of 1 in 1 in from the north side required setback
resulting in a size setback of 7.43 Ft uh to construct a new single family home the site is a college lot that is adjacent to a stero Boulevard and is accessible via driveway easement the property owner representative is present at the meeting to discuss their project in the four various
requests uh and after their presentation I will come back to the podium to discuss the criteria for a variant and the list of conditions for the VAR application thank you Eli questions go ahead Jane on those Cottage Lots do you feel that every single one of them are
going to come in and ask for four side variances in my experience um we reviewing these Cottage Lots as they come in for building permits or zvl or something of that nature um what we see a lot is some of them are using the cottage code but a lot of the times they
are uh coming in for variance for maybe additional square footage um another story um and things like that so and this project is one of those projects that's coming in okay okay other questions for Eli just a clarification for me so the the cottage
code allows rebuilding of the same footprint as was previously there and if you go to a manufactured home for example that has a different footprint that kicks it out of the cottage code correct with the with the cottage code there is the reduce setback set up to 5
ft I believe um the same footprint existed pre pre storm um and you're capped at one level and the um the lower level has to be open not enclosed so a lot of times we see prop owners that come in they want enclosed that lower level for privacy reasons um or they
want to get additional square footage or additional height or something like that so thank you anyone else questions thank you Eli car good morning Cara Stewart for the record representing the actually the contractor
mark from idle construction who is representing the owner this lot is as Eli mentioned to Cottage lot it has been in the family for probably since 1981 it looks like from the property appraiser um was a
small lot did have a home on it that the the house itself was approximately 756 foot with some enclosed area below um which gave the total of 972 Square ft of
enclosed living area that also then we have a deck that gets included into that as well which then brings us up to 1182 Square ft that was existing we are proposing 1350 Square ft the home itself is
1,080 um of living area very modest home two-bedroom house house um the applicant is looking to enclose the lower level partially let me just pull it up here yeah we'll be having an elevator and a
storage area and as mentioned it is a a pre-manufactured home so we are limited a little bit on our design and whatnot in order to uh to make the houses fit on these Lots we have no objection to staff's conditions that were that were recommended and uh we look forward to a
positive vote thank you cara um questions for Miss Stewart Jim no Don no Doug no ma' no questions John no uh the only question I have is Nancy there are four variances
here should we vote on each individ individual variants yes that is preferable okay um thank you cara Eli go ahead good morning again Eli Lee planning for T4 M Beach staff has determined that the proposed scene F
structure does not does meet the LC session 3487 c um that sets forth the required findings and conclusions for the approval of a variance the criteria set forth by LDC session 34- 87c requires that um a request is essional
and the Minimus um or not the result of the a by the applicant um it is the minimal variance that will relieve the applicant of any um unreasonable burden U if is injur injurious to the neighborhood or detrimental to the public welfare and finally uh and if the
conditions or circumstances on a specific property piece of property are recurrent in in n in nature that requires a code change if approved by the LPA staff suggest that the following conditions of approval um usually these are just boiler plate B boiler plate uh
conditions but I will go by them U each one um the first one is appr of these vares does not give the applicant an undeniable right to permit approval development of the property must comply with all applicable requirements of the fort Mars Beach Comprehensive plan and LDC um in effect that the time of per
approval except as specifically modified herend the second condition is par on West Ure that they adhere to the neighborhood flooding ordinance for drainage and the 67% maximimum impervious requirements the third condition is the variances shall only apply to the single family home as shown
on the provided site plan demolition or substantial damage to the residential structure shall render the variances to be n and void the fourth uh condition is property owner must ensure that no vehicles are parted in a 7 and2 foot Ingress and egress easement the final
condition is propo must apply and obtain a demolition permit prior to applying for a building permit um sta is here if you have any questions thank you Eli any follow-up questions for Eli okay thank you very much discussion from
anyone if not let's go one by one May public comment public comment uh hello public is there any comment there is none public comment is closed um just so everybody out there in wherever land uh there is no one in the audience other than U Miss Stewart who is the
applicants representative um okay so the first variance is for the street setback um it's a variance of 16 ft from the street setback 9 ft for the construction is there a motion a motion to approve the N9 foot
setback second so there's a motion to approve it and uh second finding that it's consistent with the uh findings the findings and conclusions the comprehensive plan and also if I can ask in uh supported by uh evidence that is
in your record right findings and conclusions in our record okay thank you uh any discuss disc on the motion uh your vote Jane I don I Jim I Doug I John I Anita yes okay number one
passes uh number two is a a variance from the rear setback is there a motion I move approval I second and again Fin and conclusions consistent with a comprehensive plan thank you evidence by
information in our p thank you Jim uh any discussion on the motion your vote Jim hi John hi Jane hi Doug hi Don Anita yes motion two passes uh the third is the five foot setback
from the south property line for the slide setback I make a motion to approve that based on consistency with the comprehensive plan and the evidence provided in our packet thank you John is there a second second thank you Jim uh any discussion your
vote John I Jim I don I Doug hi Jane hi Anita yes variance number three passes number four uh this is the um setback from the uh the other side
setback North North Side setback yeah um is there a motion I'll make a motion to approve the uh North Side setback u based on consistency with Comprehensive plan recommendations to staff and the
information in our package thank you Doug second thank you Don any discussion on that motion hearing none your vote Doug I don hi um Jim hi Jane hi John hi Anita hi uh all the variances pass
unanimously thank you Karen thank you you know when I do that roll call voting I hear the Walton in my head good night Jim sometimes I just want to start giggling good night Jim Bob and John I'm telling you what oh Lord
okay this is for 154 Virginia Avenue this is V 20258 this is a resolution of the fort Meers Beach local planning agency approving the condition variance 20258 requesting a variance from LDC
table 34-3 for the property located at 154 Virginia Avenue generally referred to as strap number 94624 W4 00009 c.
Z4 in Fort Meers Beach to vary 6.8 ft from acquired 20 foot rear setback to build a new single family structure in the RC zoning district and providing for other clarifications is necessary providing for conflicts of law scribers
errors severability and providing for an effective date is there any expar communication Jim none Don no Doug none Jane no John no and I have none as well uh s Sarah good morning Sarah with
Community Development Mark renb with Idol construction uh has applied for a variance on behalf of of Steven and Deborah horgas owners of 154 Virginia Avenue the variant's request is reduce the required rear setback found in table
34-3 of the Land Development code from 20 ft to 13.2 ft a variance of 6.8 ft the variance would allow the construction of a single story single family residence on a non on a conforming RC Zone lot prior to the
hurricane Ian the applicants lived on the property in a single storeage 1950s house that was similar square footage to the proposed home the previous home was also non-compliant for rear setbacks no other variances are requested for the single family home um and for
clarification it's a single story over flood so not single story on grade um and uh I'm available for any questions you may have and Cara Stewart is here on behalf of the applicant thank you Sarah any questions for Sarah so basically they're wanting to build back what they
had on the ground up in the same position basically essentially yeah sir could you summarize why you but you staff recommended denial can you summarize that why yes um it's based on the criteria in the code um so
the criteria in the code hold on let me pull it up so I get it right um so the first one is there are or there are not exceptional or extraordinary circumstances or conditions um in this instance this is a conforming lot
um so the parcel itself does not have any extraordinary circumstances um and then the other one is that the con conditions justifying the variance are or are not the result of actions of the applicant and in this instance they are choosing to rebuild as
a manufa a pre-manufactured home um so it has a set size and that's the size they're choosing um so if they were choosing a different style of home or uh doing a you know custom home they could make it fit on the parcel it's not that
the parcel is too small to fit a home on um so although I don't think that this is a a huge ask I don't think it is necessarily problematic in the way some homes could be because it's not terribly tall you know it's a single story and it's similar in size it does not meet
the criteria of the of the uh variance thank you okay any other questions for Sarah so if they um um you know if this is denied then they would have to go to a custom home to get the same size square
footage because they'd have to have a second story and I don't know that they would there are probably other designs um it's it's a design choice in this instance but if it's denied it goes to the Town
Council and they decide but I I would like to point out you know that it is pre-manufactured this is something that we have I you know accepted as a reasonable ask in other instances it just does not specifically meet the criteria What's the magnitude of the
variance again it is uh they're asking for a variance of 6.8 ft from the 20 foot and it's a regular size lot though yes what's on uh Sarah what's on the U what would be the East Side what's
what's adjacent to the setback the 13.18 foot setback um it's a residential home so it's a residential home to the rear um and I would note that a lot of the uh homes on that street are pretty close to
the rear property line um on Virginia Avenue they appear to be mostly consistent with the rear setback requirement not all um but on the uh the street and I can't think of the Street's name Ohio Ohio um a lot of them appear
to not be compling with the rear setback has the neighbor on the east side have any op we've received no complaints or concerns okay and we did send out postcards so there were no objections from the neighbors that's correct okay
thank you uh sir do you know um it seems that a 55 foot versus I think a 48 foot build would be acceptable are there manufactured homes that are generally 48t deep I've from my understanding they seem to be even
longer than 55 ft deep I could not speak to the design of HS okay thank you any other questions for Sarah thank you very much Sarah Cara good morning again Caris
Stewart the property as staff is pointing out does meet the requirement of the size of the lot this particular application is being brought to you with some thought by the contractor and the owner they were looking to really replace back very similar to what they
had now what they had the existing the previous home the rear setback was approximately 8 and 1/2 ft so we have improved that setback this particular lot when we talk about what someone can
do just to demonstrate um the simplistic simplistic of whatever the word is of this application this particular lot could have a home on it with 4,800 square fet of living space we are
proposing 1,700 Square ft of living space we are proposing one story our roof height our mean roof height will be approximately 14 fet the Cod allows a 30 foot so when we look at what we have
here yes all Al though we don't the staff staff is saying we're not di Minimus I would like to say that I think we are Dem Minimus in what the request is in what this request could have been and if this request was imploding the lot bringing ourselves to the full
extent of what we were entitled to do and then asking for a variance I would have to agree wholeheartedly that that does not comply however in this instance we are not doing that we are staying very consistent to what we had for our
square footage and we have limited the exposure to Neighbors on all sides we have an open deck our lot coverage would be normally 40% I think we're running at about 28% so all in all although we're asking for the relief in the rear that
is to allow a deeper garage area on the one side of the home the other side of the home will be open below flood it is a designed choice but we felt it was a design choice that did give you the latitude to give us an approval can I ask you the there appears
to be basically 112 by 117 room that is what is protruding to the back uh does the rest of that building meet the 25 20 foot setback on
page exhibit 62 um page 94 yeah that's a survey yeah yeah I was looking at that too but the actual footprint of the house looks like a rectangle so the the footprint on the the survey is the old I think the survey
must be the survey is 94 okay so the survey is probably show the old you do on 68 68 but but to your point you're asking for variance but you're actually increasing the setback from what the
previous home correct we are improving proving that or something do my math yeah okay correct I got it yeah the survey kind of illust see that survey you'll see that it it jotted out at the bottom yeah it's
really any other questions for Sarah for Cara no Jane are you satisfied yes okay thank you cara thank you I'll ask for public comment seeing and hearing none we'll close the public comment Sarah any
further comments um so to sort of mirror uh the the way that Eli did his would you like me to go through the criteria I think we're all very familiar with the criteria okay yes um and there are two conditions that we are recommending with
the approval um that's that uh approval of the variants would not give the applicant an undeniable right to the permit approval development or Redevelopment of the property must comply with the applicable requirements of the fort Meers Beach Comprehensive plan and LDC in effect at the time of the permit approval except as
specifically modified herein uh and that the variant shall only apply to the single family home as shown on the provided site plan demolition or substantial damage to the residential structure shall render the variances to be null inv void do you have any additional questions for me any additional questions for Sarah no thank
you Sarah thank you appreciate it okay discussion on this variance if no discussion I move approval variance 20258 154 Virginia Avenue based on the findings information in our um packets professional
representation and consistent with a comp plan and with the condition with conditions described by staff thank you second set there's a motion uh and a second is there any discussion on the motion hearing none Jim your vot hi Don
Hi D hi Jane hi John hi and I that so that uh variance carries unanimously and Jim Bowen being absent okay thank you cara thank you very appreciate it uh the next item on the agenda in the
administrative agenda is a discussion only about the notices uh Nancy um first of all I just want wanted to say that um generally before you get ordinances to review we would take them
to Town Council um they had their M&P meeting um rescheduled so they are actually their meeting is going to follow your meeting so for purposes of efficiency we wanted to go ahead and bring this back to you um but these two
uh possible ordinances will go to M&P on Thursday for input from town Council and direction to bring it back to you to formally um consider the adoption of a uh ordinance the Genesis of these two
ordinances was here at the LPA through discussions that that you had um I am going to defer to Sarah I think Judith worked very closely on the notice uh ordinance that that we have and maybe we go ahead and read the
title uh to that um an ordinance of the town of Fort Meers Beach Florida amending Land Development code section 34-23 notices to require applicants for rezonings development agreements and developments of regional impact to
provide mailed and posted public noticing prior to local planning agency and Town Council public hearings providing for severability codification scrier errors conflicts of Law and providing for an effective date so it basically will shift the the burden of
noticing um to the uh applicant developer um and I'm open to any comments that you have regarding the the language that is in the code if it needs clarification or this is the appropriate
time so just quick question for staff enforcement and consequences um in in theory so this is required uh prior to the hearing so if they did not provide evidence that they had done this then they would not get a
hearing and can you tell me why we're changing something that has been working for so long and we constantly hear that it's not working um we send out mailers and we are told all the time that people are not getting our mailers um it is our you
know as of now our respons so it's it falls on us um it is a time consuming AC um it takes our staff many many hours to send these out um and then if the applicant changes the meeting or
anything happens uh we have to you know send out new mailers um it's just been uh an onerous activity that we here we're not doing correctly so rather than us take on that responsibility um and many other
communities are doing it this way they require I mean I've worked in a lot of communities where they require to do the mailers provide evidence that it has been mailed and um have affidavit for the signage and the request is theirs right they're the most benefited party
yeah based upon the actions that are about to be taken therefore the consequences and responsibility for compliance should start there and I completely agree with making them prove self-approval uh that we're following what we said we would do yeah I see um I've been in many meetings where the
public says they didn't get notice or something which sort of puts a signs blame to the town but like as my colleague said it's really the applicants the one that's trying to make something happen so I
guess my question would be what sort of proof would be required that they actually did this public notice um so I don't know if it's specifically I think okay um so is it Affidavit of signage um is it I know in other communities they require certified mail
I thought it was an Affidavit of compliance that they've complied with your code um and identifying the the criteria that needed to be satisfied but I'm not seeing how will they know where the circle should go I mean that's my
question at this time they are getting that information and we typically require that they submit that to us anyway um they get it from the Lee County Property Appraisers or Lee County GIS um it's there's actually a link in the application for it and so it's not
as difficult as it readily available and it's as up to date as the individual homeowners want to keep it yes that is correct the only question I have though is it seems like it is transferring some of the burden of doing this to the actual residents and we are in a
community which has part-time snowbirds that are not local makes it more difficult I would suggest um is there any Revenue impact to this because I did read that there is a charge back that the town uh provides for this service
currently yeah uh currently we charge for the mailers um not a substantial amount it's really only to cover the printing and the mailing of it uh we don't make money on it I think we probably lose money on it at this time because there's also a staff person
who's responsible you're not charging an administrative fee on top of we're not we're not charging enough to do that is there um is there adequate documentation to direct our residents on how to do this and and the process by which they
should follow yes and if they have questions we can certainly advise them and send them email addresses at this time I mean the process really is when we ask for an application they're supposed to submit to us the list of ma in the past we required that they send us labor labels now we um actually print
out the post cards ourselves so we're not requiring people to submit it but people who are used to submitting in the town go ahead and do it anyway because is actually listed in the application um it's pretty simple it you email um whoever it is over at Lee County tell
them what you need they send they email you a map okay and it shows the circle and it has the listing of of all the addresses and then yeah just putting back to the ownership on the on the applicant so then the applicant is there a place they can go Outsource this or do
they have to physically print a letter that is conforming to what ever is required and physically mail that out there are businesses that do this um I mean I've I've worked at engineering firms where we do it ourselves um and it's it is moderately timec consuming
except the ones that I uh the towns that I worked in required the certified mail so it was more timec consuming but um as far as the actual business goes I think most of the printing centers do it yeah I just think about other governmental
notices and like usually a public notice is you know there's a public place to notice it I I just wish you know we're in the little past the 90s it would be cool if we could somehow get people to register or go look at something you know if you could email it right it
would be so much easier you know um because it really puts a just one more burden on the process right and it it just seems like we've got so many steps for people to go through for the most basic of things right I think the state law requires some component I know they
require um for rezoning they require a public notice in a newspaper and they say specifically what it has to be yeah um I think just for like variances and special exceptions that's where it's sort of the lower lower in our business I mean in the
utility business there's no you know there's a process but it it doesn't yeah doesn't really put it on the applicant but I expect that you know and thinking ahead like if this was implemented we're still going to have people in the public
meetings that say get it I didn't I didn't know about this till today or something of course that's why I was trying to I don't think there's any perfect even if you emailed them or did anything there's still going to be people I think if you could get people in a town like this to register and say here is the site where all Public
Notices are not are are listed and they're listed at this and it's your responsibility Anita to go look and make sure there's nothing around you that's happening right because I you know the the um as a as a property owner I should be looking out for you know I'm looking out for my interest so I should take
some step instead of just but we're still required to advertise notice the agenda put the information out your website other so there is I agree there is a point to go do that I just think it's it's a bit of an Antiquated process that mail out think it's or notices May
pro pro it is Antiquated but it may be necessary because let's say I I own property on Fort Meers Beach and I'm not here all the time or something and something's going going on and you know I don't I don't know it should be my job to go poke around on a site and see if
anything's going on yes or no if something's going on I should be notified someh think about the bo water notices we get a I get a a voicemail text message I mean there are ways right if I am a resident property owner if I register with the town there are ways to
get a notice electronically and so I I'm just again I'm I'm just exploring it seems like there should be an easier way than snail mailing it yeah something's happening relevant to your property you should get an automatic notice yeah we're kind of saying the same that could be yeah yeah I think that could be I think my experience is that there is um
I can't try site chapter in verse but in order to use electronic communication and L up or substitute for other first class mailing it requires an affirmative action you have to agree that's now how you can communicate with me that's how I've had to do it in other communities it's very very difficult to get to do
that on doctor's forms go through big permission things so it's not perfect either way if there was if you look at our red alerts for example you have to proactively sign yourself up to know well not there's something going on the town right otherwise it's on you for not being on
that so I find this to be similar and maybe this will encourage or bias some folks to get more proactive about providing information or allowing us to communicate that way you know the only John brings up a good thing about you know individual individual Property Owners residents of the island but how
many have we had come before us that aren't represent Ed by somebody almost everybody is represented by someone who this is their business this will be this will just be it'll be another bill but it it'll be a task for them to complete so I I I agree but I think that there's
been a great deal of support for uh for example to follow owner Builder uh as develop for residents and as somebody who has not been through these processes before it's difficult to understand
so my I think my recommendation and the reason I asked Sarah the question is is there good documentation to guide people I don't I don't uh disagree that the burden should be on the applicant as person who is making the request it's
just how difficult will it be it sounds like it's not a very difficult process I I think the other attribute that we continue to um benefit from and should emphasize and Rel is that the culture of this community is there's always somebody here that you can come talk to
sit down and have a conversation with about how best to do this we're not bureaucratic in that regard there may be a lot of Demand on the resource of the staff but they're open they're willing they're available and they're knowledgeable about helping people get to that point back to your owner Builder s situation and should they pursue that
conversation they'll be benefited by it I think that's a good thing about former speech and and I would note um that uh there was a discussion about notif ification electronically um we are looking at a new permitting system at some point in the future and it may be
possible um if that's coordinated with GIS properly that people within a certain distance can sign up to get alerts when somebody applies for any sort of permit I don't I don't know what it's going to be capable of but that may be an option in the future good good so
if I could just add on to that um so remember too that if you give your email address to the town is a public record right um and there could be a public records request for email addresses for everyone living in a certain area so um
again it's kind of uh the individual would have to consent and agree EXA and and know that by doing it they're doing that the other thing I just wanted to point out um I think that Judith uh worked very hard on this ordinance and
she did a great job um in subsection B it all it does talk about with some new language that says all notice requests shall utilize Layman's and uh language I.E apartment building rather than multif family dwelling and restaurant
rather than business um zoning um unfortunately in other communities sometimes they just put you know the v89 whatever the number and um people don't really understand but this is going one step further and actually
giving you a a uh description in um quote layman's terms Water Reclamation versus sewage plant does make it differ yeah okay any other discussion on this nope so hopefully the the council
will see that this is simply Shifting the burden to the applicant and uh and we agree that's where it lies so just to summarize your discussion then you are in support of this type of ordinance should Council so direct yes yes
yes okay uh the next item is the review of application fees and payment we brought this up this is um a discussion of a draft ordinance at the town of Fort Meers Beach Florida amending section section 34- 53 of chapter 34 Article 2
Division 1 of The Land Development code regarding acceptance of payment to fees and charges for review of any application or issuance of a permit in including inspections until all fees and charges due the town including but not
limited to expenditures for noticing advertising additional Professional Services outstanding utility bills or code enforcement fines for leans have been paid and the property is in compliance with all applicable Town codes and ordinances unless review of
the application is needed for safety purposes or for compliance with Town codes and ordinances providing for severability codifications criers errors conflicts of Law and providing an effective date so we are presenting this one to you again um based on your
discussion that you had uh with the caveat that I mentioned earlier that we will be taking it to M&P to get input and direction from um the Town Council um I guess we wanted I I wanted to walk
away um today knowing that this is what you actually intended um when you asked us to to consider and and come up with something it is quite broad uh it encompasses uh building permits as well
as Land Development um applications that may be forthcoming um as far as what does it apply to it also is quite broad as far as any type of monetary indebtedness to the town whether it be outstanding uh
utility fees uh fines notices seeing Professional Service uh reimbursements um so that's how it was drafted and just looking for your input yes let me put some comments on this because I think I initially brought it
up and it's um it's a bit of a camel Now versus the horse I was trying to build um so let me go back to the Baseline my personal philosophy around it and see if we can talk about pairing it back a bit my fundamental belief is that somebody's coming and asking for a variance of some
sort before us for a piece of property whether it's the um organic property that we're talking about the fees or a new development what they're asking for is that I need to do something different um than I'm allowed to under the normal
rights property rights and as a result of that if you would agree to give me some flexibility and variances around that I will agree to comply with those conditions of that approval and move forward uh with the development and everybody's happy um
my issue was if there are current and existing properties where the applicant is not in compliance with what they already agreed to do through other variances ordinance or otherwise coming and asking us to believe again on a different piece of property that they're
going to do better at this time seem like an abuse of both our time the respect for the process and certainly The credibility of the applicant because they have shown by their own behavior they're not in compliance with the rules and agreements that they have been um
agreed to prior to that the additional component I put on it so that would have a degree of specificity and seriousness to it is the would be these would be magistrate sanctioned leans or fines to me that means they've had complete due process for
misunderstandings personal circumstances situations and hurricanes Etc and been heard by an arms link third party to say all that being said Mr Mrs applicant you owe the money and until such a time you pay these fines um uh you're going to be
out of compliance and if it goes very long we're going to put a lean on the property that's a distinction with a difference for me because it's gone through a very serious process the rest of these fees and all that are normal and due course I never intended on having it be that encompassing or that
Global U I think enforcement is impossible and everybody has personal circumstances so I'd like to start the conversation back to where I thought it began which is if you agreed and you didn't do it and you've gone through due process and a third party agrees you didn't do it and you're under some sort
of imate sanctioned fee or lean then clean that up before you come and ask for the next time you want something changed or or outside our variances because our your evidence is proven we will go back down the same path again I think we have to stop them matter what about if you've got somebody who is who
has leans has fines has whatever they're in the magistrate process and they come here before they go to the Magistrate then they they they they're lucky or smart or smartart clever yeah and I know there's
some discussion we had it earlier with one of the individuals that we here about separate properties separate issues separate requests I just I'm trying to get at the basic core pattern of behavior and I told that individual that um I wouldn't hire a bank robber to work at my bank just because I was in
the bank they robbed so there's a pattern behavior around that that says there's something there I don't want to be around yeah and that's the conversation I'm looking to have with you all that was one of the things that I thought was the specificity of it being tied to the specific property was a bit
of a problem because it what I think we've been experiencing is previous other developments Etc that are pre pre-existing conditions sure as opposed to the property under
question well I think that we always had the situation where you can't get a permit for something if you have uh find still out there I mean you can't ask for unless everything has
been ask for you just can't achieve it right I mean I know that that situation exists in some communities I'm not sure if it has been applied here um so I can't I can't speak I will just say that some of the prior ordinances that have
been adopted do have a whereas Clause that states whereas the applicant um has no outstanding um application type related fees but I don't think it goes further to include code enforcement
issues I guess maybe I'm relating that to sales of a property if you have multiple properties and you're trying to sell one that doesn't have any leans or any of that on it but the others do you have to correct all those before you can actually close on this one right okay
you get a partial release no they don't they don't do that very much the permit process and that I guess again I'm just I wasn't envisioning all that managerie in there I was looking for people that are coming here this is a special body with special powers and special
responsibility and it takes time energy and effort to do what we do and staff included I don't think you should be afforded access to that if previously or current you're in a situation where you didn't listen last time so you don't care if somebody's going they're they're they everything they're doing is buy the
book uh they're building a house and they've got $1,000 in parking fines and whatever you don't care about that you care about that at this level I don't care I say I care for the town sure sure sure but that's not that was not the purpose your purpose is that same person
who needs to well I don't know do parking findes go to magistrate they do so um so your purpose is only somebody who's asking for a variance a special exception uh commercial plan development a land use approval a land use approval
that's what you're asking for so you don't care if they owe this town money you just care if they own those ow the town money and they want something for the town from the town but then there's also the timing issue which I think is a glitch because getting before the
magistrate takes time so um um gosh I mean could could we include or pending magistrate I mean I don't know how you well you you want it to be after the fact uh because I I could see sort of like the glitches I find with the
development order process I find a big glitch here with this absolutely fair point I don't have magic answer around that the the the cleanliness I was looking for is that's a third party arms link absolutely enforceable by law or
other legislative action and you shouldn't come and ask for additional freedoms that could potentially go through the same process and end up the same way until you've shown us that that behavior has been cleaned up from your previous previous U variances why why do you hesitate on on
anything that do the town before that um because I I guess I don't hesitate I'm be glad that's why we're having the conversation what I'm looking for and I guess this goes a little bit of the conversation we had with the um the council most previously on on that uh Food Truck Park where the variants I
asked for I think got a little bit misunderstood and wish i' been should have been there to clarify it but I guess the more simplistic you can make it the more impactful you can make it the more um arms link you can make it from it's completely legitimate and forceable the less nuances there are and
open to interpretation there is that will therefore kill the it's a baby bath water thing for me y keep it clean keep it material and there's only a few of these but they're big and they matter they tend to be in my mind um
individuals that have the resources that have chosen the bad behavior versus the other way around that's why I would say yeah I would I would go to if you owe the town anything if you owe the town something I mean again I I look at it and say okay well I was you know fine unfairly and I don't agree with it I'm
I'm entitled to doe process right the magistrate but I just can't move I'm handcuffed on my property until then speed them up to get to theist well if you can get through the process right but that that would be my only exceptional con you know kind of concern is if someone for some reason had
something that was you know maybe going to end up being resolved a magistrate or something that wasn't you know fair but other than that I would say I would say if you owe if you owe one parking ticket if you owe the town money you're not you're not compliance
MH I mean you're asking me for something so make sure I'm whole before you um I think um the the what I'm the what I'm looking at here sounds too General it's like it's not meeting the requirements you're
talking about because it's like sort of any and all kind of language um it's meeting Don's requirements not meeting jy's requirements not meeting gim's requirements I think um you know traffic tickets and can be contested you know
like uh I like the concept that after going through all magr you know we're talking about it's been resolved that you owe this money uh it's not in that but that takes time and then that complicates maybe
progress because it gets around it right the you know get around that could take a couple years or something they can delay the magistrate process come here get their get their variances and yeah and still have still owe the town money I mean but I like what we're talking
about I think it's just how do you how do you make it work the point is there there's always a way to work the system of course if you want to have it open to interpretation so if you include everything then there's then it just
holds you to the fire but the point is then you make a big effort to get before magistrate and you do and it happens quicker get a resolve yeah and there I mean there can be that special exception but is there a special exception in here that you can come for
emergencies or something yeah it says health and other um things that are dangerous for safety put safety covers it and if you're I I think well there was two you're in the pile of leave everything in well I mean you know I try
to follow the rules and you know I don't feel like I'm asking much for everybody else to do I and what what do you think John I'm with Don you're with Don leave it all in yeah yeah right let me just read this right now it says all fees and charges
due the town including but not limited to noticing advertising additional Professional Service outstanding utility bills or code enforcement fines or leans relating to either the property we all got to do it so I mean those are not things that you should have to argue
about you owe a water bill pay it right the only thing ticket pay it I don't want lose is the fact that it has to be across properties the way I read this and maybe I'm reading it incorrectly it seemed like it was limited to the specific property that you're asking for
the I would like it to carry with the individual I think it should be to the individual now now the bad thing is is if my wife and I own a property and then I own something in an LLC of course you know but I I would say if I'm a member on that LLC then is it same thing
applies as it should it should because everybody will just go out and put llc's or right you're losing this one oh no not at all are you kidding me it just got better I got okay I didn't lose a thing what I don't want to do is lose it to
council because it's too because it's too much yeah and that well hopefully what they're going to see is that by including everything it simplifies it and doesn't leave any holes open for somebody to come through mhm yeah love
it okay all right so we're we we are of the of the opinion that this should be like it is correct but I did hear that it should apply only to the individual property is that correct for instance if you had a code that was not my no okay
so you're going to keep it broad the person the individual if the individual is you know named in an LLC as a member uh named you know as the property owner if I mean frankly I think if it's you know my trust yeah I don't think I
should be allowed if I ow so I will comment as well that um there currently is in existence a process and procedure for the collection of um outstanding fines related to code enforcement as well as leans so there is a separate
process already um in place for that process doesn't inhibit exactly additional applications and requests to do the same but if the goal if the policy concern is to get those leans fixed satisfied bringing those
properties into compliance and then having the lean satisfied there may already be a process not trying to duplicate or be the Redundant redundancy Department trying to make sure that there's a consequence for you not doing that by additional things that you personally want to do them will benefit
from I it's two separate things yeah exactly okay yeah yeah okay um you need any other discussion on that no I think we can summarize uh where the LPA stands on the this one and as I mentioned we'll take it to the LPA meeting or counc LPA
the MMP meeting management and planning uh discussion which will occur this Thursday okay thank you um LPA items and reports Jane anything I just want to say that the shrimp parade was absolutely fabulous and I thought there was more people that I really expected to see
there and the parade was longer than I thought it would be and I thought that was great I will say that what I think was missing was the Next Generation and the Next Generation wasn't there it was you know it was older people so you knew everybody well yeah well it was very it
was very it was the very first time I've gone to a parade without kids and grandkids and it was a very and and I noticed lots of other parents and grandparents in the same position and we even talked about it isn't it weird that we're here and our kids and grand kids aren't here yeah you know it was it it's
it hurt to not have that because my kids always got together with their class after the shrimp parade every year at the 7-Eleven and then they'd go take a picture at the school so I'm I'm missing that element of what we what the town had Community Wide we're missing that
Elementary um John anything well the beach kids Elementary they did they I I did see them and we clapped the whole way they walk by they were they were well represented um by the parents as well yes we were cheering them on uh I don't know if this is the appropriate place but I'd like to have a discussion
about the proliferation of parking lots on un undeveloped Lots um there's one that the town got at the end of delmare that they put up one of those captur or um QR code things for parking put some
stripes in obviously had not come before any of the bodies to ask for permission um they own that property uh I don't know the details Jim I just know that the sign was up and that the town has noticed them for violation um end of delmart you mean the Bayfront or the the
old shamro oh interesting interesting oh yeah they can't just do that they can't just do that and I guess the the it leads me to a thought potentially a concern they might capture that when we start looking at a lot of lots that are
vacant and are not currently zoned for parking that it's the minimal amount of development that could be done and yet I'm not you know I don't know that that's providing any benefit to the residents and if anything it's just increasing the amount of traffic that we
would have from day Trippers so and how can they encumber that lot with Town parking they can't because they have to have a temporary permit a temporary lot they have to apply for that is this a like a Code Enforcement issue well and they C they caught this one right I mean
the town has has violated them so good okay um so I don't know how we have have a discussion on that that's that's uh maybe this is just it that
we're we're we're raising this as a as a concern I have noticed that there has been some uh blockades that have been put up on areas that were becoming public parking areas uh that had you know paved area
like where the Red Coconut was U parking the public was doing doing yes they put up barricades but maybe the how much the land owners need to block that off with even either just you know rope or whatever to keep that from so perhaps
what the LPA might want to consider is a discussion of existing code related to parking lots yeah let's review that yeah okay good uh Jane anything no I did Doug no ma'am Don no thank you Jim one quick
item U maybe it's for information maybe we talk more about it later um but it has to do with water transportation and all the conversations that are obviously going on around the the fairies and all of that which may or may not happen in the future my question is where are
there places on Fort Meers Beach particularly Bayside where if I want to take five eight 10 family members on my boat and drop them off for their time at Time Square where can I legally do that where I'm more than welcome versus
having to suggest I'm going to stop and buy a drink real quick and I'll park my my boat and then come back and get my boat and get out of here um it would seem like to have that private opportunity where there could be three or four places where you could do that and it'd be welcome it be properly sanctioned and be owner's risk happens
to be um it takes all those Vehicles off the road trying to get to North End I wouldn't even come down there unless I could do something like this for a lot of reasons so some of the applicants were talking about some of their developments I've suggested that to them and they've agreed of course they're in the approval stage right now that that would be a good idea but if there's
something around that we can put out or inquire or the town could supplement support or advocate for just while we're going from here to there to actual formal water taxes it would be a wonderful idea for those private boers to have a place to go and do that so they could Ferry own their own passengers to that place would be a nice
public benefit incredible you know Jane we have talked about this this has come up before of course it has yeah um and I mean early on remember Rusty was going to do this has come this has come up and I and I think that there well who knows
where it is now but um but there was a map that identified locations some neighborhoods said oh no no no not here not here like you know uh oh no not at the movie theater you know down your Canal oh no you know yeah I'm looking
for I would hope that some of our current um practitioners that have the space because it's not fully utilized to just designate one doc Y in a more formal environment where we could do that and it's a drop off it's not a part park and go do you drop off and you leave and come back and however that
it's just an interest I think and it would be timing I think is pretty good for something like that I agree I agree be good um so I want to bring up some and since we've got a little bit of time here I I want to bring up something that I think is you know we all talk about I
listen to the council meetings that the new Fort Meyers Beach you know Fort Meers Beach build it back better and all this stuff but but nobody knows what that's going to look like and I you know years ago I had this little sign and I still have this little sign that says
make your vision visual you've got to show people what you're going to do and I'm wondering Sarah if there is a way to change or to add to the submitt requests of um our our next big project that will come forward will be the Arches I have
not seen any of that yet of this latest request um but is there would there be a um a mountable hangable presentable image of what that development would look like
once it was complete um because uh you know this was one of my big things with um with the seate proposal we never really saw what that was going to look like and we saw glimmers but didn't actually see it rendering and renderings
yes and I think that as the new town hall goes in place it would be a huge opportunity to be able to show the public here are the things that are happening in your community what this is what the Neptune
looks like well this is Myers side oh the things that we have approved already I I mean I think that we could I mean I'm meeting with the neighborhood group tomorrow and I'm going to request that from from them that their projects that have already been approved could you
could you give the town some images that could be displayed publicly so that people can start to accommodate in their brains what fort Meer speech is going to look like yeah like the like the roundabout in Time Square people would like to see
how they like to know how that's even work so you're you're smiling because figure they ever why do they have a crosswalk in the middle of it you know what the heck because I I was thinking about um when I went to Iceland uh in their city hall in Ricky Vic they have a
um a scaled map of Iceland um and in the middle of it so at least they did a number of years ago so you can see the mountains you can see what the the country well you know at the rest areas on Alligator Alley they have beautiful maps in those now
wouldn't that be a beautiful thing to have a fort Meers Beach so if somebody had the right uh 3D printing software you could do an entire I mean you could you could figure out what scale it needed to be at and the new city hall could have a giant map of the Town
coming a development could you could bring in your you know I don't know what the C un CL this bring in bring in your little uh model and set it there and everybody can see what it looks like you see it and and I'm sure developers are losing their minds right now listening
to this meeting saying this is going to be so expensive there's no way Florida coast well that's right but but also I don't know how difficult it is to do the 3D printing um I mean from what I hear the 3D printing is pretty straightforward if we figure out the
scale so you know somebody out there in think it is extraordinarily important for people to you know right now what I hear on an almost daily basis is I don't remember what was there what's going there I I don't think people have any
idea by and large what Fort Myers Beach will look like 5 10 or 20 years from now and as these pieces are filled in and I'm not saying you know the variances we approved today not not individual homes I'm I don't think that that's as
important as these major developments that we're approving how they will change the landscape of the boulevard people need to see it they need to know what it is and and hiding that it does nothing but um push down the road the
shock that will come at some point when people go oh my God that's what 17 stories looks like because they still don't know you know that's what three stories or that's what three stories absolutely that's what three stories looks like it doesn't even have to be tall so I and and I'm not saying
that I'm I'm not saying this because I want to block that in any way I just want people to see it I want them to be able to wrap their heads around it because even telling somebody I mean look I love the Neptune project but when I tell people about it they cannot
picture what it is and and the graphics Graphics don't really do it justice because you don't see it in its setting I mean oftentimes you'll get a graphic for something and there's a mountain in the background and you're like well this is not located on for put a lot of it around it you have a
mature oak tree right next to your building that's not there so is it possible to change to to to talk about that in scope of look this isn't just a an idea of something that we'd like it's going to be required I think we would have to figure
out what what the cost what the what that would be to the town um I mean I've worked in other communities well not for the town for for the applicants yeah but because there have been complaints and concerns about the cost of the process I mean that's why we
have development agreements because apparently the cost of the process was too much when it was a CPD but it's less when it's a development agreement um so would you consider that a public benefit versus requirement if they came in and offered to put that up and have that skill
done well it definitely thinks it's it's a public benefit but I think it should be a requirement I mean as somebody who is advocating for the people who live here and work here and own businesses here I want to know what it's going to
be I and I'm a good visualizer so you know I'm not the person that I'm I'm talking about but but most of the people I talk to have no clue and I'll give you a real life example the London Bay development at Bay Beach we approved that 100 years ago when it started to
get built everybody said oh my God that building is so tall who who approved that well the town did we did we approved it and you know whatever it's the same height as the rest of them around there too it is but it's new going there wasn't anything there there
wasn't anything there before exactly exactly and now there's a whole lot of there isn't anything there yeah or what was there before was two or three so Anita you're talking about going going Beyond U graphics to like like models
like a model yeah yeah okay but wouldn't you need to have all of the existing buildings also modeled in order to put it in context well I'm hoping that that that um companies like the neighborhood group and others that are coming before us would be good you know stewards of
the community and and do that because I think it's in their best interest it also could be a public benefit that someone comes to the town and says I want to do something at you know some point in the Boulevard and I'll take uh I'll take a half a mile of the beach and
have a 3D that's a public benefit that is a a public benefit absolutely conceivably um you could um you know fly uh with drones fly lar get all the topography buildings and everything as data and then that could be converted to
a well see now you te people are thinking Way Beyond what I I was thinking of a nice picture on the wall like we did when we did the comp plan we had all the maps up so people could literally see the island all the time you could not walk into town hall without looking at the whole island not
just your neighborhood but the whole island and we don't have a map in and we don't have any maps in here so you so you don't look at it comprehensively and I think we need to start looking at that picture I think the other challenge just to be um aware maybe be reminded many of these folks have indicated these
buildings are not designed yet and until they're designed I can't tell you where what's something going to sit we don't know how everything's going to do all that I think the stage that they come in here with while it's conceptual and they have plans these buildings are not designed so that may be a condition but it would be subsequent to the approval
because it could be months of years down before they're finished designing them and then would put it up and by that point the impact you're talking about would happen but the ability to influence would not be anymore well they're not designed mind but they throw they give us a
concept that concept so at least it could be the concept and it's a it's a box and it's this tall or it's a box and it's this tall and then it's you know you see this little road here and then you see this and you see this residents have brought their own they're so
desirous of it remember the boxes yeah yeah yeah I I think um I I I really think that it's essential that we that we have it and um so if you can think about a way for us to um require it that
would be great um if we can't require it then hopefully like you said people will be crazy hearing us talk about this right now and I'm sure I'll hear about it tomorrow I'll let you know how that goes but but all due respect Anita we can ask for all the models we want yeah
but if if our Council continues to approve things without those models it won't right because the developer says why do I need to do it I'm going to get it anyway I don't care you know any more on that topic D just saying I mean it's a fact it is is a
known fact yeah okay so um yeah that's rather defeating isn't it it is um all right uh LPA attorney and items and reports any Nancy thank you you um Sarah anything
from you uh yes uh so two things we may need we will likely need a second meeting in April um we don't know exactly what's going to go on the meetings but we have a lot of cases and we think it would be wise to ask for an additional meeting okay um at this time
you have one meeting on the uh eth um so I asked Amy to give me a list of dates that would be
available um so Thursday April 17th is everybody available Thursday April 17th I am I am I can be okay um or would Tuesday April 22nd be better that would be better for me
better you're okay either way such a priority for me it's not a problem either way okay um let's go with Tuesday April 22nd then okay okay actually I prefer Thursday me too you both prefer Thursday 22s not that
great Thursday the 17th um or April the Wednesday April 23rd I'm traveling I'm not sure if it's Wednesday night or Thursday in the morning I think it's uh Tuesday April 29th
yeah what about the 29th Doug it just eliminates uh okay on the 29th when's our one in May uh on the eth 13th yeah so we still have two weeks even if we do the 29th just thinking about two we okay
you okay for the 29th I'm fine for the 29th everybody okay for the 29th let's go back to the 22nd anybody because it gives a little bit more yeah freom to the to who for me to travel oh or Wednesday April
30th no 22nd Wednesdays are out from Doug said the 22nd doesn't work 22 time you the 22 thday what about the 17th we is that it would just be nice to have it is the
week um that that's that's Thursday before Easter it is yeah that's right that would that would be that would be very difficult for me okay are you traveling at the end of the month I don't know I haven't booked anything because I'm trying to figure out
something Le let's go let's go tentatively for the 29th 29th and um and Nancy does that day work it'll work it it's just I prefer the 22nd you prefer the 22nd yeah do you prefer the
22nd but but Doug Doug can't do it um I can do it but I got to cancel some or I have to not participate in some things for the company meetings that's just your livelihood
that's not really that not really important Nancy can you do the 29th okay the 29th it is okay okay got it so what are we saying the 29th 29th okay so our meetings in April will be the the 29th and in May it's the
13th so these are long meetings well one of them for sure is going to be long is isn't the Arches coming forward at this point it looks like the Arches will be coming forward we have uh several variances we have one rezoning likely we
have potentially a development agreement we we've got a lot of things happening okay all right okay anything else Sarah uh yes um
this weekend is the library grand opening yes it is on Sunday there are going to be uh tables at the library and staff is trying staff me um and possibly Jason SMY um and a person from coradino
group are going to be uh hopefully Manning a table there we're still trying to get everything worked out um and this would be a public Outreach opportunity for people to come talk to us about the comprehensive plan and the Land Development code I've been looking for an opportunity to get a table what will
they say what are you going to ask them questions so we're going to give out um a flyer with a survey code on it so that people can go do a survey online they don't have do it there um we're also going to have some poster boards with opportunity to put in comments to uh give us an idea of you know the things
that matter to them and the issues and topics that are important so it's really an opportunity you know several people have been like it's this political it's not political this is all about what do you want to see in your community what do you care about um what do you want to see in your comprehensive plan so that's
the goal is I'm going to be there if you want me to help what time is that I would love you to help that would be great it's from 10 to 2 um yeah and we are going to be on the third floor so anybody who wants to come by in sort of direct traffic that would be great um
where this came up and it was a good opportunity looks like there will you Sarah instead of a flyer why don't you just do a a board with a QR code and people can just scan it well we're going to put the QR code and the flyer but we want people to not feel like rushed to do it or like save it on their phone and
then feel like so just a little bit of privacy too yeah exactly so they can sit and think and you know yeah all right great great idea great super so yes everybody out in TV Land come see us tell us what you think we want to he
this Sunday at the library Sunday Sunday Sunday Sunday at the library Saturday at Santini Plaza for the St Patrick's Day Parade very exciting very exciting and you can still register to be in the parade if you want to and anything else
from anyone I just the eth I'm will probably be remote the eth you will be remote yeah because I I have to be in Texas I have to be in Sugarland at 2 o' that day so I'll probably go in the night before do the LPA in the morning okay so okay Sarah maybe you can send
something to put a press release or something out yes BTR will carry it right away and it'll get to your mass audience I'm going to be reaching out to Nicole uh today we were trying to get everything straightened out to make sure and and I'm still waiting for word on the table but I've gotten other people
coordinating so hope sure this team would love to end Lyon put it out so fire away thank you okay anything else from anyone if not it is 10:22 and we stand a jour thank you all