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Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=98DLik6M-sg

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Good morning everyone. We're going to call this meeting to order. Today is Thursday, August 2nd, 2026. It is 9:00 a.m. All council members are present, including town attorney, deputy town attorney, town manager or town clerk. Did I say town manager? If I didn't, I

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said it twice. If you please rise for the pledge of allegiance. I aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and

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justice for all. >> Before we move on to the first item, the town manager has a few things he'd like to say. >> Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Uh, good morning. Following the questions raised at Monday's council meeting about the town's adalorum collection rate, staff

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conducted a thorough review of the FY26 and proposed FY27 budgets over the past days. I want to share what we found, including a few errors and the steps we're taking to correct them. On the advalorum collection rate, the figure

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discussed Monday was roughly 86% collect collected was inaccurate. Staff traced this to a payment from earlier this fiscal year that had been miscoded to the wrong function code prior to current staff's arrival. Once corrected, the staff's advorum collection rate is

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98.93% consistent with prior years. This was a reclassification of an existing payment, not a change in overall revenue collected. On the version posted on the town's website, we found uh the budget version

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posted on the town's website. We found that the FY26 budget document posted publicly was in fact the wrong version. It reflected figures as presented at the final budget meeting rather than the millillage rate council actually adopted. The adopted corrected budget

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mill is 4,628,362, which is what's reflected in the town's financial system. and in the proposed fiscal year 27 budget. We are correcting the posted document and will review our process for publishing final adopted budgets to prevent this from happening

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again. On the town's millillage methodology, the town's calculations comply with Florida statute 200.0652A1, which requires taxing authorities to use no less than 95% of certified taxable value. The town has been budgeting using

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96% in compliance with and slightly above the statutory floor on debt service. The debt service figure was not double counted. It appears twice in the budget document because the presentation shows figures first by fund then by

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department. Once a transfer out of the general fund and one as a payment made from the debt service fund. Both entries represent the same dollar amount, not separate expenses. on the Bay Oaks general fund total discrepancies. These were traced to a

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pivot table in our rollup presentation tabs that had not refreshed after a new expense line was added. This is a real error and we're already reviewing and updating the linkages between our pivot tables and the master budget budget document to prevent reoccurrence.

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Going forward, I've instructed new processes to ensure budget to actuals reports are generated and reviewed consistently so that council staff and the public have reliable, up-to-date financial information throughout the year, not just at budget adoption. We

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take the accuracy of this budget seriously, and I appreciate council's direction to dig into these questions this week. Staff will continue this line by line review as we move into the fiscal year 27 budget process. Thank you. Thank you, Will.

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Anybody have any questions before we move on? All right. First item on our discussion list is the short-term rentalscape system demonstration. Come on up. Make sure your microphone's on. >> Hi, good morning. My name is Candy

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Marlor and I am the head of client success at Decker Technologies. Also joining me today is Dr. Eric Brandenburgg. He is our senior director of client experience. So, a couple things that I want to go over today is how the Decarder products

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or rentalscape has helped your community development division of the town identify and monitor the short-term rental properties that folks have here in the town. Um, and the growth that we've had over the past 17 months, where

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you were and where you are today, and uh the progress. So I will share my PowerPoint with you now and please feel free to jump in if you have any questions as I go through this. So, the rentalscape update for today,

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our platform, our platform is meant to be uh, you know, for identifying all of the short-term rental properties um that are in the in the town. So, our system has patent technology that allows us to scrape a lot of the big platforms like

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Airbnb, VBO, Booking.com, Vicasa, you name it. uh we're able to identify these listings that folks are advertising on and match that back to a parcel number or a strap number uh where we have the listing to parcel association and then

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we're able to display that into the rentalscape platform which I'll show you a little bit later. The next thing with our product is registering and licensing these products or excuse me these properties. So the purpose of Rental Scape is to identify

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these properties and then once they have been identified, if they have not registered, then we are able to send a compliance notice to them a notifying that they're operating a short-term rental property but don't have a registration or a license with the town. We're able to monitor and respond uh

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where we track license status. We monitor their activities. So over the past 12 months, how much they've generated in revenues um on these platforms and also help with resident complaints. So if there's a complaint on a short-term rental property, that is

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funneled back into the rentalscape platform. The last thing is to enforce and collect. So, our system is able to flag unlicensed activity uh or auto and where it automates a warning letter or a compliance letter that is sent to the short-term rental property owner um

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notifying them that they have that uh short-term rental property that's not registered. Over the past 17 months, um, through our identification and monitoring platform and our registration system, we have been able to successfully register over

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900 properties for the town. Um, that has generated $346,000 uh in revenue from those registrations. So, you can see a breakdown from 2025. Um, it was generating 153,000. Um and

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then in 2026 so far year to date has been around 192,000. So this is some screenshots here from our rentalscape platform. So this is the system that your community development division uses. This is to identify those short-term rental properties in the

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town. We have them plotted on a live map. So any new property or new listing that becomes available, our system will detect that and plot plot it on the map for um for your staff to view those. Over here on the left hand side, you can

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see a full map of Fort Myers Beach and all of the properties that we've identified. So there's over 3,300 properties that we've identified so far. This consists of active and inactive short-term rental properties. The reason that we monitor the inactive properties is because there will be a chance that

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it will change ownership. Those properties may, you know, may lay dormant right now, but in the next year they may start operating again under under uh new ownership. There's over 14,000 listings out there. Um, and this is across many different

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platforms. So, we monitor these on a consistent basis to track their activities. Um, how many bookings are they, you know, having each year? um the number of bedrooms on a property, the occupants. All of this data is is presented in the Reynoldscape platform

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that the community development division uses. So the goal that we always try to achieve with our clients is helping to close the compliance gap. And really this is a huge component for the community development division where when we started working with the town it

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was at 17% compliance. Now as of today we're at 45% with a steady increase u incline in registering short-term rental property owners. What has been the most uh effective in increasing this

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compliance gap is notifying those folks through the outreach letter campaign. of those of the 45% these are operating short-term rental properties that hold a valid license and registration. The STR revenue compliance when we

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started with the town was at 24%. As of today, we are now at 62%. What that means is is of the STR properties throughout the town, 62% of those licensed properties are now generating

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revenue that are licensed as well. So, these are some of your larger operators that um have now reached compliance, which is a really really uh big accomplishment. All right. So, giving uh residents a direct line for enforcement or to

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enforcement, excuse me. The complaint portal is a an additional product that the town has um from Decard, which is a 247 hotline number um for the community to be able to um report complaints on a short-term rental property um as well as

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an online complaint form. So, what this is doing is allowing the residents to communicate back to the town when they feel that there is an issue or a problem. Um, so right now we've been able to log 81 complaints on short-term rental properties. 85% of those have

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come through our complaint portal. Um, we've received quite a few in the in the past couple of weeks or the town has received quite a few of those. So, some of those are still open and being reviewed right now by your staff. Uh, but one thing I wanted to point out is

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how we're able to show a pattern of where these complaints are coming from and in what area of your town. So, the Fair View Isle neighborhood accounts for repeated complaints uh across four separate addresses on Fair View Boulevard and also one uh on Seahorse

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Lane that has drawn six separate complaints. So, this isn't good really uh useful information for your town to understand, you know, what's happening in the community, how, you know, these illegal properties, you know, what they're doing, and this is helping to uh

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stay on track with your enforcement. >> Katie, quick question on that. Are you able to determine if that is a weekly, monthly street where you're seeing the most repeated violations? Is there a way for Rentyncape to track that based on the town's map or is it just an area?

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>> So, this is uh this is on the actual uh Seahorse Lane. Are you asking for if it's one individual property or multiple? >> No, what I'm asking is to most people that aren't in the business, Seahorse Lane is Seahorse Lane. We don't know if that's a weekly street or if that's a monthly rental street. Understand what

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you're saying. >> So it' be interesting to see if if it's possible. >> I'm sure staff has an ability, but if there's a way through your and maybe it doesn't. I don't know. But >> it does. So when these complaints come in, they are tied back to that specific property address. Um so which whatever

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property or STR property that someone is filing a complaint on, it does go back to that property. So we're able to see if this is a weekly or a monthly rental. based on the activity that they have on like Airbnb, VBO, how often are they having folks there as far as vacation

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renters? >> Go ahead. >> I think I think um perhaps there what you may be stating if I'm understanding you correctly is we designate a property as legally able to rent weekly or legally able to rent monthly. You're

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talking about the front end, right? What is that property allowed to do? or are you grandfathered? Perhaps you're grandfathered in. Okay. Now, I think what you're saying is what is the actual activity? >> He's looking for, if I understand, where you are out of alignment

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>> at the category. Are are you seeing more violations or complaints in a weekly zone or are you seeing more in a monthly zone? >> You'd have to you have to come up, doctor. You'd have to come up to

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>> Yeah. And can they track that? I mean, I'm sure staff can do it, but it'd be interesting to know if this software has the ability to be able to do that. >> So, when you present a report, it's we're seeing the most complaints in a monthly street or zone versus a >> correct.

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>> I was just told that they don't currently have it zoned in inside of real estate. >> Give us your name, sir. Just for the record. >> Uh, Eric Brandenburg. >> Thank you, sir. >> Um, they don't currently have it zoned inside of Reynoldscape as of was weekly or monthly. uh if we had those shape files, if we had those zones that there,

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we can easily add to that and then that way you can you can dissect the data that way as well. Something very very easily to track it. Once we have the zones, we put it in there and then you can filter however you want it. >> Okay, Frankie looks like he's jumping up to

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say something. >> Good morning, Frankie Karpacha Community Development. Um, we can take the information that's provided from Decarder Technologies and with the staff that we have and the map we have, we can get you that information. >> No, I understand. Can we can we give

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>> if we have the information and they say they can actually do it for us if it alleviates work for staff to be able to let them automatically do it. Then you get the report that can come back to council say we're seeing the correct violations >> for for right now. The way it's set up, we we can take that report in. can make that initial map, give it back to

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Decard, they can spread it out across the entire town. So, if we're having all these incidences in Fairview Lane or Fairview Isles, we can we can denote that area, find out one if it is a a weekly or monthly, get that back to Decard, and that would help them create

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their weekly and monthly map so we can facilitate that that report back to you. >> We're kind of in the infinite uh infinite stage of that right now, >> right? But we already have there's got to be a map available, I would assume, to know. I mean, a realtor has to be able to tell a potential property owner

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if if you're going to do this as a rental, you're on a weekly street or a monthly street. Yes, sir. >> If we have that map available, why wouldn't we just give it to them and let them input it into their software? >> We are in the process of doing that, sir. >> Okay. Yeah, >> I know it's been a work in project, work in progress.

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>> Seahorse is actually monthly, but there's one house that's grandfathered on that street. >> Yeah. And that's what you're saying. put that data in there. It's in there. It's validated in the beginning and then you're just analyzing it as people rent or >> Well, and I think it it it helps it

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helps our staff be able to when they do get a complaint, for instance, if that this one house is one that's getting a complaint, >> they can say, "This is a grandfather house. This is the map. This is why they're allowed to do it." It I just think it would help staff be able to communicate that to anybody that's complaining because unless you know what

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you're looking at, you wouldn't know this one property on Seahorse. my I have a grandfathered house as well. So, >> correct, Mr. Mayor. And I I'd like what I'd like to do is help us on the proactive side of enforcement as well. If is as I've asked staff to work with

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with you on on getting that information into the system so that when Rental Scape does its scrapes and its scour, it can pick up on whether or not something's being advertised weekly when it's a monthly correct home. So then that'll go from what you're describing

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here. When it picks up on that, it'll go to the co to the enforcement side, get over to code enforcement, and we can that's I'd love to see that next level. >> Yeah. And that's something we can we can absolutely do. Um so we can create custom violations if that's a violation

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you want to you want to look at. Hey, I've got a a weekly property advertising monthly or vice versa. uh we can configure that in there and then you have a list every month of of your violations of all your properties has violations and that could be one of your violations like here's every everyone

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that's advertising on the wrong cadence. >> Thank you. >> Yes, sir. >> I I'd actually like to see it go a step further. I mean if there's a if we can even get it through this program for instance this one house on Seahorse by address if if a customer can go look if I'm going to look at a house to buy for

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rental property maybe my realtor is being honest maybe they're not. I've heard from many people who have bought a house thought they on a weekly street. They're on a monthly street. If this program can offer a solution for a potential homeowner >> to go and look at it and verify that yes, this truly is on a weekly street or it's not before they make the big

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purchase to buy that home, I think it could be a proactive tool to your point versus just a reactive public. >> No. >> So, we have another product that we offer communities called a public portal. So, it basically shows this map here and it plots all your zones. It

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plots uh all your licensed properties. So, if someone's looking to buy um and it's it's a licensed uh short-term rental, it'll show them exactly they can zoom in, they can see the exactly what zone it's in, what they can do, what they can't do. Um and that's something

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that's open to the public that's that be public facing uh where they can go and and see the kind of the all the licensed property for for your area that you you're presenting to the public. and and that including those zones as part of

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that as well. >> Any other questions? >> Okay. >> All right. So, one other uh piece of enforcement that we're able to track is right now there's currently uh just shy over 300 properties that are still

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unregistered but are operating as a short-term rental. So 62% um of those that are still unregistered but are actively advertising as a short-term rental have received our outreach notices in letters whether it's the first warning or the second warning

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um but they're still operating and they haven't registered yet. So this is information that staff is able to use to know who they need to target, who they need to uh you know as far as the local law allows for citations, fines, magistrate, what have you. the o there's

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116 other properties. So, 38% of the overall unlicensed or unregistered active uh short-term rental properties that are new that we've just identified. Um so, these will be in our next targeted outreach uh to notify these folks that they are operating, but they

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don't have a license or a registration yet with the town. So, just some discussion and next steps. Uh just to kind of recap what we've covered today. So, we were able to demonstrate a platform overview and business review uh where we started at

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180 properties that were registered uh and over the past 17 months, we've been able to help staff generate over 900 registered properties uh which has resulted in $346,000 roughly in fees. What staff and council can now view uh with using Rentalscape

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and seeing all of the short-term rental properties that are in your town and how they are operating. And I'll also give you another demonstration a little bit further into the platform that staff actually uses um how Rentalscape has identified and helped close the compliance gap uh on on

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the SDR compliance from 17% to now 45%. How the complaint portal connects residents concerns to enforcement and where the data suggests the town's enforcement's effort will be the most impact. Before I jump into showing you the actual platform that staff uses, does

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anyone have any other questions? >> Yes. How are optouts excluded from this? >> Excluded in what way? >> From registration or anything like that? Because they will advertise. >> They do advertise and the registration is only for the strap member of the building,

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>> not not each individual unit. >> But there are condos that opt out of this process. How are they excluded from this being tracked? They're not excluded. They're they're still short-term. >> So that's not work worth doing really.

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>> Somebody it they should be excluded if they're running it themselves. >> So regardless of an opt- out property allows anybody in that condo to go with a single strap number through the HOA and do it for a a fee that would a

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normal residence would would do. Yeah. So instead of charging each individual condos, we're just charging the the the building itself for that one fee. >> Now all those all those people still have to abide by that governance of the HOA. >> Yes. >> So what it does is it takes them uh it

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relieves us of the responsibility of enforcement that relies on the HOA. >> But whether you want to rent out your apartment or not, that's up to you. If you are renting it out and you're not in your uh condo's opt out u protocol,

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we're going to get you. We're we're going to be able to flag it and we're going to say that you're you're not renting properly. You have to reg if you're in an opted out building, you have to go through the HOA and follow that procedure. You can't just be rogue and say, "I'm not going to go with this group. I'm going to go alone without

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registering." So you would have to register e either way if the opt- out condo you're you're under that gu. So the the building can have 50 units that are renting we charge them for one fee >> right >> and and that still shows up on our

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account as an opted out property. So Frankie is what you're saying basically in an opt- out building, >> we'll just say that that building chooses they want to allow to rent monthly >> and someone doesn't like that and their single unit they're renting or advertising that they're doing it weekly >> or daily

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>> or daily. This system will pick that up. >> This system does pick it up. Yes. And and they will be notified and we reach out to the HOA first for enforcement. Okay. >> If we don't see that, then we follow through with Phil and his bunch with code enforcement. >> Okay, that's good. Thank you. Yeah.

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All right, let me stop sharing for just a moment. >> Katie, I have a question for you, Rebecca, here. Um, >> who owns the data that you're collecting? Does the town own the data or does Renoscape,

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let's say at the end of the contract or even during the contract? >> Who owns the data you collect? >> That's a great question. I'll defer to Dr. Eric on that one. you >> you'll always >> is it >> we scrape it for you but you'll always own the data. >> Okay.

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>> Uh so at the end of the day um when we're done the all the licenses data uh that that we collect for you is is yours. >> Okay. And at any time if we wanted to export some of that data for compliance records there's an export tool.

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>> There is available that we can just download as our proof for code compliance. >> Yes ma'am. You you can you can do a raw download and filter it however you want. >> Perfect. Thanks. >> All right, hold on a second. We're going to see if we're if we're still live or not.

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>> The TV >> the TV's might have just been a surge, but I don't The light says we're still on, but I don't know if we're still on a live feed or not. Yeah, that's electric. >> Well, last time they said we didn't actually go off, but so I want to

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>> just make sure before we take a break. >> See if it's >> just to follow up on on the data. Um, >> hold on a second. We just have to we just have to make sure the public is is hearing what you're saying. >> Yes, sir. We're still live. >> We're still live. >> Okay. Go ahead, sir. Um if we terminate

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if whenever uh we have a um a contract that's terminated uh we're required to maintain it for two years and then then we delete it. So you still have two years at postc contract that that we will maintain uh that data

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securely and then and then then it's deleted. >> Okay. And it can easily be downloaded at any time into a commaepparated file or XLS. Absolutely. At any time or any one particular item maybe to support a code. >> Thank you. That's my question.

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>> I guess I don't this is probably not the right time to bring it up, but >> will maybe you want because people watching out there I I'm sure are saying how are we paying for this? How much is this costing the town taxpayers to pay for this? You want to touch on that or Frankie? >> Yeah, I don't have those numbers with me

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right now. Um, I can get them and uh we'll answer that before we're >> No, I guess my point was this isn't coming out of the general fund. This this is being paid for by the fees that are collected through the >> funded by the Sorry, M. I understand is yes, it's it does come at a cost, but it is funded through the collection through

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the registrations and the code enforcement fees associated with it. that that I just wanted to make sure people that were watching that they understand that >> when you talk about potentially adding another part of a service that you have it would come through these fees that are collected not through the general fund >> it would not come at an additional cost

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to the to the taxpayer be general fund >> will you say to date it has u paid for itself with the kind of revenue we brought or do you even have an idea I mean these are the kind of tools that pay for themselves >> and then it's a profit after that

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>> it would be a fair statement to say that uh council link it it has paid for itself and and the more that it's um coming online the more that uh the more that we're doing as Candi was talking about it's uh continuing to do so. Yes, definitely. >> Thank you.

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>> Okay, so what I would like to share with you now is the actual system that staff is using. So this is only proprietary to staff. This is not something that's available to the public. Um so I'd like to share with you how they use that every day. Okay. So, I'll zoom in on this a little

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bit, but what I wanted to show you is the map. This is a live map where it's plotted with all of the short-term rental properties that we've identified uh that are operating within the town of Fort Myers Beach. As I zoom in, you can see that there's a large cluster of

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properties. As I zoom in, these are geoloccated to where they actually are. Okay, so there's a lot of different colors that are represented on the map here. The blue dots that you see reference licensed short-term rental properties. The red dots are unlicensed.

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It's very visible to the town uh staff where those properties are that are advertising that do not have a registration. The yellow dots that you see on the map, these are unidentified live listings. So, as part of our uh methodology with our web scrapers is

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we're always going to find new listings that folks are advertising. They pop up overnight all the time. So those will flag on the map as a yellow dot initially and then once our staff goes through we have machine learning that is able to locate where those properties are. And then we have human intelligence

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that will also um follow a validation period of QC to ensure that that listing is associated with the correct parcel number or strap number. The gray dots represent it's kind of a catchall. Um, it's short-term rental

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listings that may not be live right now, but our system continuously monitors those. Sometimes we see seasonal properties. Maybe they only turn their listings on, you know, during the summer months or maybe not during the summer months. So, but our machine learning systems constantly are monitoring those

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behaviors. There's long-term rental properties that may be advertising um or long-term rental listings that they may be advertising. So, this will flag that for the staff. If that is something that goes against code or someone cannot operate a long-term rental property in a certain zone or district throughout the

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town, those are flagged in our system. Anything that kind of falls outside of a single family home or a multif family home is considered other. So, that falls into the grey dot category. Hotels, campgrounds, um things like that would be considered

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an other property. As we were talking about with the um shape files and zoning layers that we can add to the map, we will be able to so we already have the zoning layer for the town specifically, but then we can go a deep, you know, a little bit deeper

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into adding those overlays um of those zoning districts for those properties that are either weekly or monthly or vice versa, grandfathered properties, things like that. So that way town can isolate those properties. Katie, quick question. Just so you said

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you're you're tracking it by strap number. So, say a property has one strap number but has three units. >> How can the system or does the system so say I'm a homeowner that has one strap number that has three >> legal units within the town?

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>> They choose to rent one yearly, they choose to rent one monthly, and they choose to rent one weekly. Can your system pick that up or is it just specific to the the strap number as a whole? So >> kind of like the >> I would say both. So we're able to find

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those listings once we've identified which unit it is associated with. Then we create like a um separate property card, if you will. So each individual unit would have its own listings attached to it. It's still tied back to that one specific

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strap number, but they're they're individualized in the system. So we can show each unit and how they're advertising. >> I'm actually looking at one right now, Mr. Mayor, that's behind a property that we have. It's a single strap, but it's six units behind it. And each of them is

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listed. >> And this and the system picks that up. Yes. And determines based on their listings if they're doing it weekly, monthly, or rent. >> That's correct. And I can show you. Actually, >> while you're pulling that up, Katie, I would ask, do we know does that property

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have to register as one with one fee or >> six? >> Six as six fees. >> It's listed as six licenses. >> You have rentals. >> You have to each each door >> each rental. Yeah. >> Each door >> is $300. >> Great. Thanks.

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>> So, I'll just I'll show this first one here that's that's on the list. These This is a property card. So, we have a property card for each property or each unit um that is advertised here in the town. So, we can see this property here,

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they already have a registration or a license number. They have 19 listings um that are associated with this unit, which means that they are advertising on Mr. B&B, VBO, Airbnb, and Booking.com. Now, a lot of times we see that, you

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know, they are only using advertisements during certain months of the year or certain weeks. They have keywords in it. They're trying to target a specific audience. So, that's why you'll see that some properties have so many different listings. Um, they'll be live like this Mr. B&B listing is live right now and

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this VBO listing is not live right now. So, we're able to notify how how many property or excuse me, how many bedrooms are on the property or in this unit. We're also able to show the booking activity over the past 12 months on this property. So, if this was a weekly um or

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excuse me, if this was a monthly rental, but we can clearly see that they're advertising and have received bookings on a weekly basis, this would be something that town would know. Um this information is presented to them right away. So, they would know that this property needs to be investigated or

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enforcement needs to get involved. We're able to show some aggregate statistics on the property as well um based on the booking platform data that we see of how much revenue that the property has generated in the last 12 months as well as the number of nights

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that have been booked um and the occupancy if they're reaching occupants uh the occupancy each week. And just to show, we can look back over the past 12 months to see all of the history as far as their bookings.

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And you can see that there's some blocked days. So, one of the one of the things that we're able to do is determine based on looking at the calendar data for Airbnb, VBO, and Booking.com. Those are your three major market shareholders in the town as far

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as what folks are using to advertise. We're able to look at those calendars of when those when those days are available and when those days are not available. And then we can decide based on some transactional history and other validation points if that day was

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blocked by the host or if that received a financial transaction of when that was an actual point of stay or excuse me a point of booking or not. So we're able to determine which is which there. >> Another quick question for you. So, you said this is what the staff is able to

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see, not the general public. Yes. If I'm a registered owner of a property, is there a way for me to have access to my property, not everybody's property, but my property to see >> that my short-term rental company that I've hired? Because we all know in every business there's people that don't always follow the rules.

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>> That is there a way for a registered homeowner of a property to be able to look at their property and see what this calendar looks like in real time? >> No. This is just this is just proprietary to the to the town. >> Something to work on.

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>> I think that would be a great service for folks like Scott or others. Not something we have that data. I mean, you know, we we know if uh >> it's owner occupied, if there's maintenance days, if it uh you know, sometimes we we'll block it. We can't get it cleaned in time, so we'll block

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the the following day. no revenues generated. It's usually maintenance day or you know a lot of times the especially this time of year we have we have owners that >> owners are there family >> owner's block or owner's family >> and that that part I completely understand what I'm getting at is I've

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had customers I've had people reach out and say hey I I think that my short-term rental company is doing something that I have no way to be able to see if unless I go to every platform to see if my propertyy's blocked off or not. And and

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again, I think it goes to what Scott is saying. They have the data, but if I'm if I'm a res, I have to rely on the data of a short-term rental company versus actual statistics of is my short-term rental really blocking stuff off and taking cash under the table. You know,

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not how much that happens, I don't know. But I have had people reach out say that they have concerns that that's what's happening. Now, that's an issue with them, not the town. But I was just wondering if your service could provide them an avenue to >> typically most most of the professional management companies have guesty or or software

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that if it's booked on VBO, it'll block it out >> block on Airbnb. So Airbnb, it doesn't look like it's it's it's booked and you have no idea, but it comes back to VBO. I mean, most of us use uh about eight different platforms. Mhm.

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>> So, but we have one central system where to prevent double bookings. >> Correct. >> And you don't have to go into each one. It's just, you know, one click and everything's everything's blocked. Yeah. >> Cool. So, we've got another product that

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uh we acquired a company called All the Rooms uh last a year a little over a year ago that uh had this similar data that they sold to like developers, investors and and where they can analyze properties and um what

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they've been doing on the market and stuff like that. So, uh, we acquired that and it's it's it's own like u tourism um uh developments and stuff like that. We we still have that that that type of product that that uh that

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we sell um or you know can offer u that that shows that that particular level of detail. Um but this the actual property cards that that she's showing you is just is just inside of Runescape. um if if if a homeowner or

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like a property management company wants wants a a really in-depth uh like like this. >> So, are you pulling it from price labs or are you pulling it from key data or were you >> No, we scrape our own data. >> Scrape your own data. >> Yes, sir. >> All right. >> Okay. That concludes my presentation for

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today, but I'm happy to take any additional questions. >> Council King, any questions? Katie? >> Nothing. Scott, >> could you email us your um slide presentation? >> Yes, I can. >> That'd be great. Thank you.

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>> Rebecca, >> yes. So, I'm wondering, is there a dashboard in your system for staff or what reports will they get? Is it something that um will push reports out to them or does staff have to go in and say, "Let me look at the data." you know

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what kind of analytic reports are you giving to the town who the staff who follow this? >> Yes, thank you. Um so there are some system canned reports that is generated to staff currently. This shows um a payment report. So the revenues that

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they're generating from registrations as well as um a registration report to show all of the data and details of those that are registering within Rentalscape. They're able to export um as much or as little information um through the we

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what we call our list view. Um and this they can run specific reports on licensed properties um unlicensed properties or just a general all unlicensed properties where they're active and inactive. Um so they have the download button over here and this is

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customizable. So they can set filters to the columns or data that they want to export. In addition to um these analytics within Rentalscape of what the town staff has the capability to export, we have another dashboard which is

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called our business intelligence tools. Within this data, we're able to on the back end through Decard. Um or something that I would be able to do specifically for town is run additional layers of data for you. Um, so this would show as

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far as into your STR supply and demand um to show you what those analytics look like. How many properties are out there versus how many people are wanting to rent um the overall compliant nights of STR properties. So there's a lot of useful data here as well that can be

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generated for the town. >> My question, my next question Katie would be, do we have to always come back to you to create different views? I think of them as views or reports or can a user who gets comfortable with your

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application create their own custom views and save them and just refresh them when they want the information. >> Currently in Rentalscape there they have the ability to run those at their discretion. Um the filtering do not save. So unfortunately they would have

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to each time that they want to run that same report they would just have to say >> apply the same filters >> apply those same filters for the views. Um this business intelligence tools this will be available to the town where they don't have to come to me to run these reports. This is still in a beta um view

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right now. So we're still moni or still testing this. This will be free to the town um these analytics and being able to generate and run these reports. So they'll be able to once I give them the training on how to use it and how to do the exports, they can do that on their own at their discretion.

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>> And in the meantime, you had said that you can export the data at any time into a separated file. So we could pull that into our own >> correct >> dashboard tour access whatever and create our own standard. >> Absolutely. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Very welcome. >> That's it. >> Council clean.

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>> Yeah. Um, so I'm actually on the site right now, excuse me, as a resident. >> Okay. >> Okay. And, um, I guess I'd just like to explain to our residents how they can use what is on their view in order to

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determine whether or not a property is registered and >> is there a way to further delineate >> has it been grandfathered or not? And I don't believe that capability is available right now. >> It is not. Um, so as Dr. Eric mentioned earlier, we do have um an add-on product

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to Reynoldscape which is called the public portal where it would give those capabilities to your general public and that knowledge. >> Okay. >> And that's not something that the town currently has. >> Okay. Thank you. um and the uh

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classification of the gray properties, the ones that appear to have had some activity in the past but are not currently active or uh can you just refresh for me what what criteria you use? How far does it go back or just how

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you determine that? >> Absolutely. Thank you for that question. We're able to look back over the past five years. Um, so of any property that's ever operated as a short-term rental or have or held a a listing somewhere um on a platform. So that

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stays in our system and it is monitored. If for some reason that um that listing becomes active again, then we're able to notify our system will immediately trigger a notice to be sent to that property if they are uh still unregistered. Um, so they may lay

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dormant for a period of time, but those listings will, you know, at some point may potentially come back online again, um, through change of ownership or just the owner deciding to start renting again. Um, the other category is for anything that falls outside of a single

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family home or a multif family home, right? Um, so hotel establishments, um, bed and breakfast, cabins, campers, um, those are other types of establishments that would fall under that other category or those gray dogs. >> Got it. Thank you.

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>> One caveat to that is one thing that we're learning um, and it's in this area as well is the the violators are getting smarter. So what they'll do is they they understand how some of these systems like ours work and they'll they'll advertise just long enough to get a

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booking and then they'll take the advertisement down because they understand that our system catches it when it's live. Uh but we keep it as historical. So what we've been doing is running a different algorithm to catch these on and off again uh to give the code enforcement cuz they're realistic.

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They're they're still advertising non-stop. They're just doing it in, you know, kind of on and off, on and off, and and it's still defeating the purpose of the the the val the your your ordinance that they're still they're still violating the

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ordinance. They're just trying to trick it and and say, "Well, I'm not I'm not live." And so, uh, we also offer if anyone that you you need to for code enforcement, you need to take to to court, uh, we we create you a a uh a defendable file for you. And it includes

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the entire history of that uh of that entire property that they can take with them. And to my knowledge, since I've been here, we had anybody actually once we show them the evidence, they usually just settle because it's it it we catch. >> It's irrefutable, >> right?

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>> They know they did it. >> That's really helpful. Thank you. >> Are you able to catch um property owners who are not advertising on a site that we all know of, the BRBOS, but maybe they have their own website? I used to do that myself. I didn't go through a platform. I had my own um you know

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pages. >> Yeah. So any if it's a sis or a software that has a username or password uh those were not able to access. Um some of the smaller platforms we are um able to access. If those are brought to our

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attention from town um from town staff that is something that can be added to our web scrapers. Um we have found some smaller uh rental agencies uh for the town specifically that we're monitoring. >> Great. >> Well, I shouldn't seem shocked that you

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cheaters are going to find a way to cheat, right? >> But you know, one of the things that I think is interesting about this is it one, it pays for itself, right? >> Yes, sir. >> So, I have a couple different questions. One, Scott, this is your business. I'm

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I'm curious as to how short-term rentals are taking short-term rental management companies are taking this software. They they like it, they hate it. Um, obviously the ones that are cheating probably can't stand it. >> But I'd be I'm curious to find out if if you're in this world, that's your job.

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I'm curious what what your community is saying about this rental skate. >> I I think it's great. I mean, you the the biggest thing what we're trying to do with getting these properties registered is the the biggest component of that is that they have the fire inspection. >> Correct.

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>> So, you know, we best practice if you if you're renting a home, if you've got to you've got to be fire compliant. You just have to >> I think the biggest complaint that we have is that every year when we go to reregister, we have to get another form

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notorized. It would it just would be so much easier, especially if we have clients that are Canadian or German or they're they're just not here. They can't get something notorized. It just be a lot easier if we have that, you know, if you could do the auto signature

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in instead of getting getting a the paper notorized. And we've talked about this, but it would that would really streamline we we'd get more applications done faster. Yeah. >> But it's it's just chasing paperwork around. It's just >> is this an uploaded document that you

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have to do through the system? So, we do save those documents um unless it's a requirement by code that that has to be uploaded at the time of renewal every year. >> Um we do save those documents historically in in in the system. So, in essence, you wouldn't have to do that

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each year at renewal unless it's required by code. And on our side, Georgina, assistant community development director, and Melissa, um, who's in charge of the SDR program here for the town, have been working and and trying to get that so when we get to

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that registration phase coming up here late fall, early winter, uh, we can present that to Rental Scape and work on a a system >> that would really streamline things because I now we've got 900 registered properties. So, you're going to have 900 people renewing. And if it w if it was just

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>> a lot easier if it the ownership hasn't changed, if the management company hasn't changed, if if nothing's changed, >> it'd just be so much easier with, hey, we've got that on file to have >> and we can set that. Um, so at the time of renewal on that license, all of that

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data would be there. Um, so you wouldn't have to make any changes unless ownership has changed, right? um to update. >> We get if the ownership changes that need you need >> and the document as well as long as there as long as that document has been you know previously uploaded during the

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application process then it wouldn't require to we can set it to not require it to be uploaded again. Um just to >> that that would be fantastic and from a revenue standpoint for the town the quicker easier way to do it will get the money faster. So yeah I think that for

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for the renewal purposes this this fall or you know early winter we should really look into that Frankie that >> yeah no we we currently are sir >> okay >> the way we've we've solved this with other locations is uh right before they

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they check out there's a list of block that you got to you know I acknowledge this I acknowledge that >> we usually add something in there saying hey I acknowledge that nothing's changed um my file is still current that way it's we can switch that the documents page where they're supposed to upload We

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we that particular document could be optional to where if if nothing's changed, you don't have to upload another one. Just at the very end of it as you're signing out, you click on that nothing's changed. I acknowledge nothing's changed or I acknowledge if it has changed. I did upload a new document. >> That'd be fantastic.

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>> That would be huge. >> Yeah, that'd be huge >> because it's not like your system's not going to catch it. If you're with C Gypsy and you go with another company, your system's going to flag it anyway. So, they know you're you're going to know. >> They know. >> Yeah. So many of those things are captured in the uh certification last

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page. You signed that off. You you attested to that. So >> yeah. >> So this takes me into my next question. Speaking of the fire district, does the fire department is this stuff accessible by the fire department and obviously they have to go through a fire inspection to be able to do this? Do

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they have access to this data or do we share this data with them? especially the ones that are not licensed and that are operating outside because the fire department I got to believe has more enforcement probably tools when it comes to life safety than we do. >> I I I do not believe they have access to

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this currently they do not >> or maybe they don't want it. I don't >> they sign off on the registration uh you know >> and do they require any kind of notorized forms >> to be in this? I mean we could talk about our end >> to be honest with you Mr. Mayor I don't know what the fire district requires on

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their >> end. They they do not nothing is notorized with >> Okay. >> That was and kudo kudos to Chief Worth because they they had just one inspector and we had we're trying to get everybody at the same time is trying to get these houses registered and they they added another person and

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>> you know the the window from when you make an appointment to when the actual inspection was was gosh what 6 weeks and now they've they've got it down to just a couple weeks. So they're they're really they're doing a tremendous job working with the in conjunction with the town to get these properties, you know,

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certified and registered. I mean, there's another opportunity for an agreement between us that they could um, you know, we could share some of their data for a small fee and they don't have to buy it, but we export certain data and they know where to go to the problems. >> Well, if they don't need it, I don't

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know that they're >> credentially. Yeah. Well, if there are properties that aren't in compliance and we know of them, I would think and are renting, I would think as a fire district would probably say those were would be the ones I'd want to check. >> Yeah, there we're still having a few

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trip ups, especially with the condos. Some of the condos might have multiple buildings and one of the buildings still isn't done, so to speak. So, we we we're having a problem getting the other ones registered because the entire strap

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doesn't have the signoff fee got >> because there's multiple buildings. But I think we're working through that. I mean, we've identified most of those and >> um so I I I think your your your product's great. I mean, that you know, we we want to be compliant, at least the

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the larger companies do. It's it's the guys that, >> you know, like you said, are are advertising dummy addresses and we we see it all the time, especially when we're about to buy like where you just you can't figure out I I don't know why somebody would spend all that time when

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for $300 they could they could register. I mean, I don't I don't get it. But >> um one other thing that I wanted to to share with you is some additional business intelligence tools that um is coming and will be available for the town. And this is something that Panama

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City Beach has uh really been focused in on here lately and that is forward-looking data. So what we're able to do is present to you through our algorithm of looking ahead into the future for events um summertime vacations. how many people will you have

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in your community so that you know if you need to have fire more you know more staff um or people on call or overtime hours for your fire EMS and police um and so this is part of the business intelligence tools that will be available for staff uh for

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forward-looking data >> you mean Candy forward-looking data based on number of like rentals like you when you see a surge in a particular activity like that okay >> correct >> thank you and >> and you can look at excuse me Mr. Mayor you can look at this per day u going

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into the future. So for Panama City we were able to look at the Fourth of July the upcoming Fourth of July weekend for them and they noticed that over 80% of their properties had received bookings for the Fourth of July. So they were prepared for an influx of people coming

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to the to the city at that time. The question I have is for the people that are maybe watching out there, if if they're going to get, let's say they're in non-compliance, you obviously generate the letter and you send it out on behalf of the town. If >> with a lot of people that are getting

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very good at faking things, how do they know that this is actually a legitimate Well, they know they should know because they know they haven't registered or they're in non-compliance. But >> does it people does it it doesn't My understanding is it doesn't come it doesn't say rentalscape. It comes as a

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Fort Myers Beach code violation. So, it looks just like ours. >> The town presented us or shared with us um a formal letter head of the town with signatures. Um and so when we send that, it does not mention Decard or Reynoldscape. It appears as though it is

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coming directly from the town. It has the seal and >> um the legal requirements for the town >> and it has the contact information on there, Mr. Mayor. So, they can just that's the that's their their fallback. contact the town, contact Melissa, contact whoever, and then she gives them

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the verification that yes, it's authentic. Here are your steps to come into compliance. >> Very good. The the last thing I have is more for Nancy because this this is a essentially short-term rental pays for all the stuff, whether it's the employee that operates it or the the software

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that we're getting. If they're, you know, you said 900 properties, but there's potentially 3,300 properties, assuming they were all rental, they were all registered. at at the current fees there's potentially a surplus in that fund. Is there a state statute that

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requires that that has to stay within that fund like a gas tax or can it be applied to other areas? >> Yes, I think will and Tracy and Becky and I we had that conversation about that. Um >> so it is specific you can't they can't >> it's not right because I think right now

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there may be a surplus u of funds and the question is how can they best use that um through you know uh the provision of services to the town but it it is restricted to that because it is a fee. It is not a tax otherwise it could

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be characterized as a tax which would be unlawful because we're not authorized by the state to charge a tax. Could it be a an additional code enforcement person's salary could fall within those legal requirements that say

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>> yes but that person that person would be um assigned specifically to uh monitoring and enforcing the code as to short-term rentals. >> Okay. Or for so many hours maybe 20 hours a week or >> Yes. And um just so you know, we already

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Tracy and Will and I were already thinking about the notoriization issue and how we might have some options of how to best um address that. Okay. So, and I and I like all the information that you've provided. I do work with

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code quite a bit here and in other communities and the uh the file that you provide to the magistrate or to the code enforcement board >> really becomes the the key part of the case as to the accuracy of it and the

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process of how the information was gathered. >> So I'm I'm really happy with what I'm hearing from a code perspective. >> Great. Thank you for that. Yeah, I'm looking forward to, you know, the more add-ons you have if it better serves the town. Absolutely. Both short-term rental

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companies, neighbors, and homeowners. I'm all for it. >> Thanks, Katie. Thanks, Dr. Eric. >> Thank you. >> Our next item is proposed advisory committees, policies, and procedures manuals. Mr. Mlan, is that you you're going to

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start this or who's going to >> It'll be uh Yes, Councelor Mlan and uh Lette. >> Yeah. Um, I guess just to kick it off, this was a uh an issue that was identified by Chris

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King as the chair of the Anchorage Advisory Committee that there was a gap in um direction to each of the advisory committees as far as um kind of their roles, responsibilities, but also um you

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know kind of the restrictions that would be placed upon them. Uh we had previously uh the town had created a operations man or a uh a policies and procedures manual for the LPA because there are you know

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significant or restrictions to the LPA. Um however sunshine still applies. there are a lot of other things that apply to the other advisory committees that um uh some people were you know not aware of

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the various uh requirements for them. So in working with primarily the Zette uh but also with the Amy and the rest of the clerk and the deputy town manager as well as legal. Uh we went through

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multiple iterations. uh started really with Chris's document which was based upon uh the existing LPA manual and then kind of did some revisions in order to make sure that it was more appropriate for the other advisory uh councils and

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uh the resulting multiple iterations of that are the document that you see here. There was that Good morning. >> Good morning, council. Lzette Roman, town clerk, administrative coordinator for the record. Um, it is our pleasure

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to present this draft book manual for all of you. Um, yes, as councelor McClean has indicated, um, this, um, manual started back in March. Um, and it included the collaboration of all of us

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in the clerk's office as well as our town attorney and all the information that we received from Chris King and yourself. So, um, we are here to res to listen to your discussion and receive any feedback that you may have,

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>> councelor Kang. >> I guess I'm uh >> I'm sure this is the first time you've seen it. It's probably not the first time I've seen it, but I've I've definitely heard about it a lot. >> Yeah. >> Uh on this it says, you know, you have

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highlighted areas here. Uh the policies and procedures manual can be viewed here with a highlight, but it goes to nowhere. Um section 34-113 of the town Fort Myers Beach Code is a highlight, which I assume could go

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somewhere, but it doesn't. Those links will all be activated once the document is finalized. >> The online document, >> correct? >> Okay. Thank you, >> Scott. >> Yeah. The only thing that stuck out to

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me was the absence, whether it's excused or unexcused. We're So, it's on page eight. How it says if it's under if it's over 10 days, you know, that's excused. If it's under 10 days,

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uh it requires a vote by the advisory committee to determine whether the absence will be recorded in the minutes as excused or unexcused. We don't do that. None of the committees do that. And I mean some sometimes just stuff happens. Somebody gets sick,

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somebody, you know, >> and we just needed a starting point. >> Okay. >> We we're up to your suggestions. We're just trying to get it standardized across the board so every committee has is running off the same book. >> Okay. No, I I get that, but it seems I

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don't >> what we find is last minute says, "Oh, I'm not going to be there. Send me a Zoom link." Well, we're trying to be a little bit more prepared for that. >> Okay. you know. So, >> one of the other things that we saw, Scott, was um

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>> people choosing to participate remotely more often >> than what we think this should be. If you're >> committed to volunteering your time, energy, and effort, >> right, >> to a committee, you should participate

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as much as possible at least in person. And so we were trying to put some guard rails around uh incentivizing behavior to come in and

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actually putting in some consequences if it was something that became problematic. So are you saying then John that if if you're doing it by Zoom then that's that's looked upon as as an

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absence or no? >> No, excuse me. It's not necessarily an absence. Excuse me. Uh but that's one of the behaviors that we're trying to uh promote, if you will, is

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less of that and more of in person. It's still participating. That's just one issue of it. The other is if somebody chooses to miss a bunch of meetings in a row, even if they have excused absences, are they committed to the committee? >> Right. No, I get that. Yeah.

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>> Would it make more sense then to attach it to, you know, a date, whether it's 10 days, 14 days, if you aren't going to be able to participate in the meeting and request to do it by Zoom? There's a date as to when you can get that Zoom link out to help staff to be able to do it because sometimes with these, they don't

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there's not a quorum and and you don't know that quorum until four or five days before the meeting. So, this 10day thing would be kind of, >> right? We're finding that more and more that it's crazy popular to go by Zoom anymore because it's more convenient for everyone, especially during season.

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>> Sure. >> But we have we have regulations on us that say we have to have physical quorum here sitting at this day as before we can allow I mean we have it during your meetings too. You know, we we have to have physical quorum here before we can

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allow the virtual attendance. And we're finding more and more that everyone wants to appear virtually. Mhm. >> So maybe word smithing this to to attack the issue more than necessarily the absence because to me it sounds like the absence isn't necessarily the issue more than it is people just not wanting to

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come in here physically to do it. So how can we word smith that to make it >> well they're related right that's the problem is we need to have people that have the ability to participate but there is a requirement for physical particip >> right and we fully understand emergencies and you can't make it or I'm

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out of town because of some reason but I can still participate we fully understand that we're just trying to set that >> well much like there's language about if you miss three meetings as absence is maybe if you continuously do zoom meetings that works works the other way.

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>> The three meetings comes from the ordinance itself, >> right? But what I'm saying is is maybe you can use that same type of verbiage to say if if you're choosing to do three or four Zoom meetings in a row, no matter how this is written, that that would constitute that you're really not >> you want to participate, but you're not

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doing what needs to be done. >> Or maybe one unexcused absence >> if you want to go in that direction. I mean, you know, whatever. >> Presumes equals one unexcused. this however >> what whatever you guys want we will

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create I think Amy a separate section on remote participation >> okay >> um in the table of contents so we can directly address the issue >> can't give Scott any ideas zooming in every meeting >> where's Scott he's at the golf course

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>> yeah be >> well Nancy you do have um on page se seven you have attendance >> so perhaps Perhaps it gets covered under there. >> We can. >> Yeah, >> we can. Whatever you know, council would prefer. >> So, what Mr. Mayor, what do you what do

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you think? Three? You have a max of three Zoom meetings a year? Four? Three? What do you >> Well, I I don't know. I mean, circumstances can change and these are voluntary committees, right? Right. So, you know, I think more wording along consecutive meetings versus, you know,

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if someone's going to be gone for 3 months, do we want them to participate via Zoom for three months? >> Right. I I I don't know that you necessarily need to say you only get three Zoom meetings a year and that's it because things can happen. Right. >> Right. But >> I'm just trying I'm trying I'm just thinking out loud because some some of

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the committees that that u some of the members are are snowbirds so they're only here six months of the year >> and usually those meetings end up not having a quorum anyway >> even even via Zoom. I mean people you know I can't be on the Zoom call or I can't be here or you don't have enough people in physically in here to have a

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meeting because everybody's going to be on Zoom. Those will be canceled meetings anyway. Well, so one of the things I I um summarized this book, which by the way, I love this and thank you to Chris King as well who started this all off.

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Um so I summarized it into a quick guide for myself because when I joined council, I had so many documents sent to me that I had to summarize them because I couldn't remember it all. So, when I look at my summary of attendance in this that came out of this manual, one of the things it's saying is that at least 10

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days before the meeting, you you have to notify someone if you're not going to be there. Now, that may be a long time. Maybe we can shorten that up. But we want to remember that some of those members of committees, they fly here for a meeting only to get here and find out

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it's been cancelled. So, I think by having something in writing that says, you know, just like our council meeting, you approve them to be absent, you have a period of time so Amy knows if we're going to have a quorum or not. The people who are flying in know if you're going to have a quorum or not. Not that

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it's just the the day before you say, "Oh, can I zoom in?" >> So, it's in this manual now at 10 days. Do you think that's too much or can you live with At agenda? That's what we say. That's where the 10 days come.

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>> So, it's really not that long much further than, you know, the meeting is next Thursday. Today, we would be posting that agenda. >> Yeah. And and the point of that is to make sure that you don't you're able to tell people don't fly in for it because we're not going to have a

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>> right. We don't have a quorum. Absolutely. So, it seems like um >> it's important. It's a little more lax than our council meetings, but it's important to make sure we're >> following the rules. much of this document too um

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it's actually included in our ordinances. >> Right. >> Right. >> It's just that it wasn't gathered in one place for somebody to be able to go to a booklet and say these are all the rules I'm

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supposed to follow. It was jump like it always is. Jumping is fantastic. >> It is. Yeah. Yeah, >> it's just easier to consume it. What we were finding is there's a lot of whatifs that were being questioned to us and we're like, >> well, let's >> if we compile it all into one manual,

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>> we hopefully have answered those whatifs, >> right? >> Yeah. I think it's spectacular. You guys did a great job. I mean, >> yeah, I love it. This is the kind of stuff I live for. >> Fact that Scott's the only one picking it apart. Yes. And and just so while we're talking about this, um, Nancy just

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brought this up, the ad hoc school charter application committees would follow this book also. >> No, I I I think it's a great You guys did a great job. I know it was a lot took a long time seeing this. >> Sure. >> So, I don't want to introduce anything

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new. This is my cheat sheet when I was reviewing this. If anyone else would like to see it, it was just my summary of that book. Um that was like a quick guide for a new member. You give them the full monty and then you know it's just a quick reference if anyone else

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would like to see a copy. >> I would make sure the clerk gets it because if somebody wants to request it formal document but it is my work very helpful for orientation especially as we have these new ad hoc committee for the charter school >> uh coming on board. That'll be very

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helpful. >> Thank you. Yeah. And I think Luzette, if you'd like to talk a little bit about the way you're rolling this out to the committees. And um one of the things that I noticed, and I know we spoke about it, is we've got some pretty good input in the back as far as roles and

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responsibilities um for the audit committee and of course for Anchorage where this started from. Um but what I think we'd like to do is have um CellC kind of work within one of their

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sessions to kind of create a little bit more meat on what they perceive their purview is because right now what we have here is just the excerpt that comes right out of the ordinance. Uh whereas I think when you ask any of

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those committee members, they've got a pretty clear idea of the types of things that they're interested and they're going to, you know, give direction on. >> Yeah. And on the back side of this handout, I also summarized what you guys did for the roles and responsibilities at the highest level. That would be a

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starting point. Um you know, as a new liaison sitting on on a new committee, that was some of my questions. You know, what what do I do? what don't I do? You know, where are the guard rails for me? As well as probably a new committee member wants to know >> what are my

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>> So, the intention for implementation is going to be to receive your feedback from today's discussion and as you um have commented at the remote participation under page seven. Um, are we in agreeance of keeping the 10 days

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uh for the notification of absences to the clerk's office or do we need to change that? >> I I I think it should mirror whatever we have. Maybe Amy, I I think it should mirror whatever we have. If if you're coming before council or LPA, you have so many days to have your documentation

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in to keep it simple. Keep that what is it? Two weeks. >> Correct. uh the for LPA and for town council that deadline is 18 days prior to a meeting just for the the review process on it. But for count um the

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advisory committees is it is it the >> 10 days >> 10 days >> the 10 days. >> So we're asking this for a committee member to give us the it's the same deadline as the liaison are that are creating the agenda too. >> Okay. >> I'm fine with it. >> Okay. So we'll keep that as 10 days. Um

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an initiative that we're also doing is that we are providing in the at the next meetings agenda a listing of the remainder uh meeting dates. So every committee member knows in advance what their meeting date will be all the way

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through December 2026 to kind of mirror your town council schedule uh that has been approved through December 2026. Perhaps that can facilitate they can have it in a snapshot one page. These are my meetings for the year and if they

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need to plan travel they can do that in advance. Um >> but those are subject to change depending on council. >> They are actually um we held a meeting yesterday the three of us that talked about uh the calendar for 2027. So um we

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always take into consideration that town council meetings take priority when it comes to scheduling advisory committee meetings. Uh so that is coming down the pipe. uh but for the intentions of the manual uh we will take your recommendations and the discussions

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today and bring it for uh final approval at the second meeting of August your next meeting town council meeting >> and um we will um start attending the

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next uh monthly advisory committee meeting to talk about the manual and present it. Uh there has been uh scheduling of the annual sunshine law meeting and that is going to be October 6. Um so we will be rolling that out

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here within the next 30 to 45 days. >> Very good. >> Another thing if you don't let me step in here real quick. We are also working on implementing a schedule like a rotating schedule of each committee will report at a town council meeting under

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the advisory committees uh reports t section of the just so you we're trying to create that >> structure >> structure back between they are your committees they're not our committees they're not the liaison's committees they're your committees you've appointed

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these seven people to look at specific items for you. Um, we're trying to get that estab, you know, that relationship established back. The committees after the hurricane, they just kind of went to the wayside a little bit and we're trying to bring that back in again.

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We're also working on with your approval if you like the idea or not. Um again maybe once yearly schedule however often you would like it bringing in like at your MMPs one to two depending on the

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activity of a count or a advisory committee bringing in like for little mini joint sessions so you can they can tell you what they're working on what they think they would like to work on you give them clearer direction. We're just trying to make it so everyone knows what they're doing.

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>> I think that's a great idea. I mean, we've done that with a public safety committee and correct >> and it it adds to their value and so forth as well, >> right? And we have a couple committees that at times found themselves floundering. They didn't know what they were supposed to be doing. So, it just

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it's going to reestablish that again. And I don't if you want to do that yearly, more often, >> however you would like it, we would be happy to implement that schedule. And in conjunction to what Amy has said,

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we are rolling out the integration of uh agendas writing to civic clerk. Um that will also facilitate the tracking of what's uh old business and new business. So >> let's just make sure we're >> still live. We're still live.

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>> Are you okay? >> Did yours go off? Is yours blurry? No. Yeah. >> Must be on a different circuit. >> So good. All right. Go ahead. Sorry. >> We're still live. Okay. >> No, not a problem. Um, so as I was saying, in combination of uh what Amy

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has said, share with us, uh, we are rolling the integration of uh, agendas right into civic clerk for advisory committees. So they will be housed in the same software. all six of these committees that already established plus

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the newly adopted ad hoc charter committees. Um this will allow us to provide better tracking of the uh items that council has asked direction for committees to work on and their

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recommendations. Um it's an excellent tracking software. we can search historically and even for charter that we just concluded it will live in our files as a permanent record. Um that is actually um being rolled out as we

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speak. Uh during the summer we had uh training with our town uh staff leaison uh in how to uh incorporate agenda items into the software uh and those are already in our system for the month of August. Um unfortunately we did have to

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cancel audit committee meeting and uh due to lack of physical quarum we also had to cancel MURF >> but we're very excited that we are going to start keeping track of >> this information in one centralized location. >> Right.

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>> Yeah. The other thing I'd point out is that it's not just about creating structure and giving guidance to how to operate the committees. It's also to provide some predictability of what the expectations are of them coming back, but in no ways would it preclude

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somebody having a request to come towards council if there's something that they'd like to report on something pressing. That forum still exists. Um, but I think to the comments of Amy previously, it's it's ensuring that

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there's better two-way communication between council and the committees. Um, and and I think that that's probably very helpful as we try and continue to move these things forward. >> Perfect. Thank you, Lette. >> Thank you. >> Anything else? >> Looking forward.

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>> May I add a few others as I usually do, Amy? In case anyone wants this, I'll give you this for the record, but some suggested alignment with our strategic plan in conjunction with the fact that we have committees who meet and some of

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them have put their own strategic plans together that may or may not be in alignment with our strategic plans. That's frustrating for those folks. I don't think we want to squaltch their c creativity and all their ideas. Um, but

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I came up with a few suggestions that I don't know if it belongs in the document or not, but for some consideration so that we make sure that we're always aligned with the strategic plan. Um, if anybody wants those recommendations, I'm willing to share them. If not, that's

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that's fine as well. But I think it's really important to make sure, as John mentioned, that we don't have the gap, that we're all on the same page. Um, and if there are changes to the strategic plan, we hear that or requests to change it. We're hearing it from our committees

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through a formal process so that we're all singing from the same himmill. >> I think it would be relevant to add somewhere in our manual, maybe at the beginning of the manual, our mission and our vision as part of the beginning of the book to kind of >> Yeah, I think I think that's an

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excellent idea to keep the strategic plan of the town in the forefront. Um the the good news is some of the objectives and goals that are in the current strategic plan really talk about visibility and increasing revenue and visitors. So while each subcommittee may

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have their own strategies and goals and how to accomplish that, it all funnels to that same primary focus of the visibility and and revenue sources. Right. Right. So it was actually an um a deliverable

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that I would like to suggest is that each of the advisory committees prepare a brief annual work plan to identify the kind of things they they plan to work on. Um maybe it gets changed but they kind of are thinking outside the box and

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then we can see that and make sure that we're all aligned. I just what I seem to have heard from watching I watch all these committee meetings sometimes they're saying I'm working on things that are not aligned but I didn't

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realize they weren't aligned or or vice versa. So what I hear you saying are those advisory committees that you all appointed members to as you create those substrategic plans for that committee to make sure they're in alignment with the vision of the council. And then those

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other meetings that you have will be that time to communicate their direction and and you all can provide that input. >> And if they come up with new ideas, I mean, we don't think of everything, right? There's some great ideas floating out there because they are the experts and the interested parties in these

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areas, we want to hear that stuff. So that's a perfect way for the liaison to bring that back and say this wasn't in the strategic plan and we can discuss it. Maybe that adjusts our strategic plan because of some of these great ideas we hear, but it just ensures that

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we aren't spending we don't have committees spending time on things that we would never implement for some reason that we may have known all along, but we just weren't really communicating that. >> Yeah. And since you've given us that

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perfect segue starting next at your next meeting, there's already been some items created, but um your blue sheets will be changing and they will point there is a an area that has now been added to your blue sheets that what part of your

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strategic plan is this addressing >> that common thread through the committee. Yes, >> you've uh broken your strategic plan into four areas and then so it'll be one of those four areas or it might not have anything to do with the strategic plan. There is a not applicable or other

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category or something >> and someday it would be nice too. We see all the resources and all the staff required to support those goals, >> right? >> Helps with our budgeting as well. >> Now what you were talking about, Rebecca, is um that would be that would be part of your joint sessions with the committees.

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>> Beautiful. You want one of those? Yeah, I got it. >> Okay, you got it. >> But that would be part of your joint sessions, that reestablishing of what are you working on? And at any time, and even in the manual, any committee can amongst themselves decide to come before you if they're not on that rotating

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schedule. They can come to every meeting if they want to give a report to you. We're not going to stop that. >> You're not stopping that. Right. >> Right. >> Great work, John, >> Amy, Lette, Chris, anyone who worked on this. >> Thank you. I love this stuff. Very good.

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All right. Our next item is the sea turtle conservation ordinance. You want me to start or do you want to start or >> Well, I I I can start a little bit, Mr. Mayor, if that's okay. Yeah. Just this we decided or recommended that we bring this up to an LPA for discussion as a

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topic. Um because I know you know M&P, sorry, M&P is a topic. Thank you. And uh um there's a lot of we hear a lot from the on the town staff side a lot of questions when it comes to permitting when it comes to you know the planning

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um processes and then when it comes back around to code enforcement. So an opportunity to address some of those uh concerns that maybe also the council has received from the community or and maybe some guidance from the council uh on uh areas for us to uh to explore uh in the

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ordinance and enforcement of the ordinance. Um, but also Chad is here to just ask specific questions, maybe to help educate on the reasons for some of the uh uh portions of our ordinance and and the effectiveness of it um

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throughout uh throughout Fort Myers Beach. So, now I'll turn it over to you, Mr. >> Yeah. So this was I wanted to talk about this because you know as we're rebuilding the number one complaint I'm hearing right now in permitting is environmental and it's no it has nothing

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to do you're one person right but it's the inconsistencies and so when I started looking through the ordinance the biggest thing that stuck out st stood out to me was section 32102 how applicability how it's applied that that in itself contradicts itself and it makes it very subjective. It says, "The

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provision of this article shall apply to all properties within the town that may produce artificial light directly, indirectly, or cumulatively visible from any portion of the beach, regardless of whether those properties are beachfront properties and to all buildings and related infrastructure, including

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landscaping and well as well as other activities may be advised seurs. I'm not I don't see it. We all understand the importance of it and why we have to do it, but how it's applied, it's not consistent." Now we're hearing I got approvals whether it's commercial or

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it's or it's residential. I got approved. I got an approved plan. I got an approved DEO. I got approved. All this is approved. And now I'm going to try to close out. I'm telling I'm being told, well, that's not the exact light that matched my plan because either wasn't available or we didn't like what it looked like. It's still amber. It's

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still low. It's still long wavelength. It's meets all of that. But now I can't close on my house or I can't close on my building because it's not exactly what it was. And it's a house that has nothing to do with the beach. So for me, and and I keep going back to when we met with Dr. Tindell when we were looking at

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the lights on a sterile boulevard. After three hours of meeting and adjusting heights and putting stuff forward and backwards at the very end of the day, she looks across the street and says, "Well, what if that 7-Eleven gets built back?" And we said, "Well, what if it doesn't?" Well, she said, "At the end of the day,

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it's all subjective anyway." So, if it's subjective, why are we requiring every single person on the island to do exactly what someone that has to be on the beach? Why? My house, you couldn't see my lights from the beach, unless you're in a helicopter, you're not seeing my house. Doesn't mean I they

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shouldn't have to be hammered or shielded. But why should a construction of a property be held up for something that can't be visible or subjective to you or me or someone else is driving down a gator on the beach? That's where I have an issue with the ordinance, not what it's intended to do. And I if we

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want to rehash everything that's intended to do, we can. But it's it's how it's being applied that I have an issue with because maybe it's only me, but I'm sure my council members are hearing from business owners and people that want to build back that are saying, "I I can't get my project started because environmental is holding it up."

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Whether Chad doesn't have time to do it because he doesn't have help or it's not meeting exactly, but my property is back here on the back bay. It's not or my house is on the back bay. It's nowhere near the beach. Why do I have to do the same exact thing? I guess what I'm trying to get at

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long-windedly is saying what is approved should be approved. If for some reason you make a design change towards the end and it still meets the requirements of but it may not be the exact fixture, why are we holding up people because it it it doesn't specifically match exactly

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what they had at the beginning. And I'm hearing that more and more than anything with permitting. Again, Chad, this is not a reflection of you. It's a reflection of the ordinance that is in place that us and other councils have put here. You're only following what we what we put right. You're only following the policy we put in place. Is now the

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time to look at maybe correcting some of these issues that I think personally are there in this ordinance. So that Chad, go ahead. I just wanted to give kind of an overview of why I thought this was important to talk about again. And I don't know if my fellow council

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members have heard from any other residents or businesses that that have had this issue. Um, but I've certainly heard a lot. >> I have I have as well. >> Um, I'm not sure Chad if you want to give

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your presentation and then we can ask questions or you want to just go straight to discussion. >> I I I um so thank you for your feedback. Uh so >> well I think it's important to hear what challenges you're facing on your >> Sure. And I can address those. Um I can

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address that now if you'd like or we can get into it and discuss it as I we go through the presentation and shed some light on how the >> code is >> applied. um you have a just because you have a a rule um it is going to apply to

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different properties differently because those properties are located in different proximities uh to the beach and uh a bayside property that is you know as tall as Ocean Harbor is going to still be visible directly from the beach. Um, it may have uh or or you know

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four-story house that has like a steeple that's lit up on the bayside that is visible from the beach is going to have a different uh applicability um than a, you know, a ranch house that can um does not necessarily need to do

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amber and can just follow the lighting standards and have that white light. Um, but if there's any other counselors that want to chime in before I start or I can we can address these these issues and get more into a discussion back and forth or however you'all want to do it. >> Well, I I think you kind of pro made my

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point is it's very subjective, right? Even how >> is it subjective though? >> If if I read that, I would consider that a very subjective paragraph. You say it has to be and then it says you may. >> Well, that's probably the may part might be depending on where you are, right?

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But why wouldn't we want to make that more definitive as if I'm building a house or building a building? I want to be able to the co if I'm a planner or I'm a builder. I want to be able to the code go to the code and understand exactly is this property going to be required to follow this or this or do I have to submit something and

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subjectively staff can say nope I don't think that's right. I can see maybe a corner of your building if I stand on one foot and lean to the left into a 10 mph wind I can see it. I mean, and I'm not saying that happens, but the way this ordinance is written, it could be construed as subjective.

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>> That's definitely not how we apply things. And the consistency is if you're directly or indirectly visible from the beach, you have to be long wavelength, uh, downward directed and shielded, shielding that light source. If you're not directly or indirectly visible from the beach, then you just don't have to

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be cumulatively visible from the beach. And if you're not cumulatively visible from the beach, that means follow the lighting standards so that you're not throwing light up into the air. Um, not causing glare, you know, directional lighting and that and that sort. So, there is consistency there, but again,

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that consistency is going to have different strokes for different folks depending on the height of their building, um, the, uh, proximity to the beach, etc. So Chad, if I may. So I think part of it is,

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at least I know for me it is a lack of a clear understanding of what indirectly indirect lighting is and cumulative lighting is. And so we got even just it was either either this morning or last

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night an email from a resident who was talking about how they their beachfront, but they had windows at the front that they had put in, you know, the tinted glass and all the rest of it and then had windows on the side that they didn't

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believe were going to be part of the original requirement. And >> is this the belt and is this the belt and suspenders? Yeah, it there that's one part of it and then understanding what shore perpendicular means. >> Yeah. Well, the perpendicular to the beach is that that was one of the

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requirements. So, I think it's like an understanding of for example, I'll use my house. I'm four houses from the bay and I was rebuilding my pool and there was lighting standards that went in. I only have a pool that goes back on a

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canal and there are no lights except for the lights inside the pool. And I know I'm not going to get inspected on that, but that was part of the review process at front. And to me, it seemed a little bit

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>> and I don't disagree and I used to just condition those, but you'll be amazed at some of the light shows you see coming out of pools these days. And just recently, I had a a a house that was >> Mhm. >> um you know, on the other side of a stereo by maybe three lots.

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>> Yeah. >> And it was an absolute light show and it was bouncing off the I don't know two or threetory house. Um and >> so that would be the indirect that you're speaking of, right? So instead, even though you can't see the pool from the beach, you can actually see the

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reflection of the light from the pool on the building beside it. Is that the >> Yep. Yep. And everything is probabilities. And I'm, you know, maybe that causes a disorientation. Maybe a sea turtle never notices it. But it's it's runaway lighting. And as soon as you as soon as one person sees that, you

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know, I can have a laser show on the front of my house and everybody's going to want to rent there, maybe that laser show is never noticed. But >> I like that. I like that look. Let me do it. Let me do it. Let me do it. And all of a sudden, >> well, I think landscaping like a perfect example. I mean, the properties look

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beautiful when they've got these palm trees all lit up and everything else, but the reality is that's not >> Yep. Yep. Um, and I'll I'll I'll speak to landscaping whenever we talk about flag poles as well. I think there's some

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>> where I'm seeing a lot of frustration is I build a new home, I spend the money to get turtle compliant glass put in or or I build a business and I get turtle compliant glass atteller and now you're telling me I also have to put curtains up or blinds and now you're telling me I

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have to tell which TV I which wall I put my TV on. To me, it it it goes too far down a rabbit hole. I mean, I would if I was building a business and I spent all that money for glass and did all this and then you tell me I can't have a TV on between certain hours, then why did I

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have to have the glass in the first place? What I mean, how far what if I've got my phone up and I can't read a menu and I've got my the light on. Is that a violation? I mean, how we go too far into it and I think that's where the frustration's coming in. I've spent the

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money on lights. I've spent the money on curtains because I'm retired required to. Now you're telling me I can't have my TV on the North Wall because 6 months out of the year there may be a turtle that likes to watch CNN or Fox News. I mean I it it to me it goes too

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far down a rabbit hole and that's where I think we need to go through it and we'll go through your presentation and I'll save my frustrations till when they come up. >> Red pill or the blue hip pill? All right. So, we're going to be talking about protecting our uh nesting sea turtles

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and hatchlings and trying to maintain our community quality of life and public health and safety through our lighting standards. Um, we have uh why why does our light outdoor lighting policy matter? Um, as a town, I

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don't advocate darkness. Um, I know that you know totals like it dark is the slogan you see a lot, but I don't advocate that. Our code is about telling people the proper light so that they they can have those lights on all night for safety, for quality of life, and it

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not impact the sea turtles or minimize the impacts to the sea turtles and their and their hatchlings. Um, we have uh public health and safety considerations just with the lighting standards. We don't want glare into our rightway. is distracting whenever uh

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driving down the road and you have a big spotlight or um in the road. Uh it's just a balance of having it not too bright, not too dark, and having a good uh nighttime visual environment for our

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residents and visitors. Uh also, you know, spotlights uh coming from either street lights or flood lights from a neighbor can affect your quality of life. sleeping, you know, a spotlight in a window. Um it's just it's distracting. It's not it's not the best

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thing. So, um lighting does matter. Um and it does it does affect us as humans as well as the sea turtles. Um so, uh our uh our sea turtles are basically natural light detectors. We

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can have a sea of amber light. It can be 99% amber lights and one flood light or one window open and they will all go towards that one light. So, it is is definitely a challenge and that's a challenge we've been battling with since Hurricane Ian. We're not alone. It's a

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challenge with all of our hurricane impacted communities up and down the coast with record disorientation. So, um although we're we we're made to feel special, uh we're we're not special in that regard. It is a challenge with all

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the open space, lack of vegetation and lack of structures that once blocked those lights. Um, so we have uh two codes that govern our outdoor lighting for the most part. Uh, lighting standards code is basically a classic dark skies code. Uh, we want

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to uh, you know, curtail and reverse the degradation of the nighttime visual environment. not a lot of you know flood lights pointing at people at properties at roads and uh it also serves to conserve energy and resources

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and uh again maintain our nighttime safety uh it applies to all luminires all new luminires um which we have a lot of after hurricane Ian you know anything under 15 ft is a hard argument to convince me that um it's not a new luminere uh after

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hurricane Ian uh Sea turtle conservation code is more focused on uh preventing degradation of that sea turtle nesting habitat. Um and while we are mostly focused on the beachfront properties uh we will have um it does apply to all

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properties and says it you know any property whose light is directly indirectly or cumulatively be visible uh from the beach can affect that sea turtle nesting habitat. >> Chad real quick you can go back to that. What that is our land development code, correct?

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>> So the lighting standards code is in our LDC land development code and the sea turtle conservation code was actually pulled out of the LDC whenever we uh revised it in 2020. And so that is in our >> just the code >> code of ordinances code or

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>> and what are they based on? Like what I mean what state statute what etc. Is that >> uh help me out Miss Nancy. state statute allows us as a town to regulate >> this lighting. Um, >> so the the lighting standards code is

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based on a dark skies philosophy and it comes from Lee County whenever we made city cityhood I imagine. Um, so it's nothing new per se and hasn't been revised at least since I've been here. The sea turtle conservation code is based on the state model ordinance. We were first in best dressed in adopting

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the state model ordinance whenever it came out in 2019 2020. Um and it largely mirrors that state model ordinance that FWC and FD um put forth back back then. >> Chad, so that's not us saying they allow

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us, if I understand you correctly, are you saying we are mandated to follow those rules? Those are state >> Yeah. Everybody complains that the state preempts us uh from making our own rules a lot of times and uh you know for whatever reason the state wants to put

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the the onus on us to regulate this one. So >> right but this comes from them right this so it's not a decision for us to have it in our ordinance or not. That's what I'm trying to understand. I think he's saying the reverse, right? That we still have home rule authority to have the ordinance,

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>> right? But the state, you know, the state is not overriding and they're giving us a model ordinance, but they're not saying they're saying don't cause take, adopt your your ordinance to not cause take. There's a good way to do it. >> Consistent with the guidance that the state has given us, but we do have some

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discretion on how we draft our ordinance. >> Yes, ma'am. >> Okay. Okay. Thanks. Needed that clarified. >> Does answer your question, Mr. Will >> that's yeah that's where I was going. Thank you. >> So when is the lighting review required? Anytime there's development. Our

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building permit. Our um sea turtle uh lighting uh ordinance requires us to review it. Um all of the structures that are waterward of the 1991 tripl coastal construction control line.

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um will get a review per se Turtle ordinance and all the commercial and multif family uh properties islandwide um are mandated to get a review and an inspection. Um previous

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staff, my predecessors and whenever I came on, policy was not to review anything that was not in those two categories. So single family homes that were land of the triple CL, I typically just conditioned them to please follow the ordinance, please follow lighting

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standards code, please follow sea turtle code and left it on that. Um, since Hurricane Ian, we have been seeing runaway lighting. Um, you know, two, three, four, etc. houses up um

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uh Bayside of Astero Boulevard and we're seeing bright lights visible from the beach that are causing uh issues with disorientations over the past couple seasons. Um so staff um uh has started reviewing all single

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family homes. Basically any single family home or any electrical pro uh any electrical permit um that is submitted or has a a exterior lighting in their scope be it a pool or a single family residence. We are reviewing that. That doesn't necessarily mean that they need

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to have amber lighting. It depends on the proximity. It depends on the proximity to say if their pool is next to a tall building. Um I'll pick on Ocean Harbor, they have a pool, they're on the bay side, you would you'd say, "Chad, why are you asking them to have

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an amber light um in their pool, but if you if if they turn on their pool and all that deck lighting, that that tower is a beacon onto the beach, even though it's bayside. Um and it it it will cause issues and it has caused issues. Um so

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we we did start reviewing all pro all lighting and if it's not directly or indirectly visible from the beach then the the directive is just follow the lighting standards code um where it has to be you know full cut off uh fully

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shielded um recess lighting or meet one of the exceptions in the lighting standards for say like a flood light that needs a sensor or if it's unshielded it has to be under a certain number of lumens. Um, and those kind of criteria that I think we all agree that

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it's just good uh being a good neighbor lighting wise. >> Well, and it maybe that's where the issue lies, right? >> So, because there's a few bad actors on the island that decide that they're going to do things that creates dark skies or creates ambient light up in the

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sky, everybody should be scrutinized because people don't do what they're supposed to do. >> But it's not just a few, mayor, it's dozens. >> I'm not saying it isn't. I But is it safe to say not everyone is doing it? Right. I mean, it's >> a lot of new houses with a lot of white

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lights that are high up visible from the beach. >> My point. So, what I'm saying is why can't we put it in the land development code through the ordinance to say, >> again, this I'm trying to help you and staff out as much as I'm trying to help out the people that are building these

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buildings. >> Why can't we make it more definitive that this is what you're going to be required to do? You're not, you know, >> I would argue that subjective about this light or that light. Just this is the light that you can use. It has to be shielded. I mean, all of the stuff that we talk about through here,

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>> but you what you're what it sounds to me is happening is I'm going to condition it, but I'm not going to review it is what you said. >> Well, that was that was >> condition it, but I won't review it. >> That was previous practice. So, now we are reviewing everything. >> Okay. Well, good. I mean that that's a

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step in the right direction because now if you're at least reviewing it >> but that's the slowdown, right? >> Well, I'm hearing the slowdown is at the end once the review has been done and it's been passed and you've received your DO and you've received your building permit now before you can get your occupancy or you can get your TCO

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or your CO now the goalposts have moved. I will I will forward you. We've been on emails where this has been an issue. We know that there's properties on this island where what has been approved at the beginning through the review process has changed at the end for whatever reason, whether they whether they

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changed a fixture, but it meets the same requirements and it holds up closing on a property or it holds up the business being able to break ground. Perfect example, I've been on with with the town manager people that are trying to to build across from the old town hall property. They're being held up because

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their garage doors that face the north. We need to give them every speck on the planet for a garage door that faces north that has nothing to do with ambient light to the beach. Now, if we're approving the light inside through the review process, why does the garage

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door matter? Why are we holding up progress over a garage door when we've approved the lighting inside the building? That's that's the issues that I'm hearing that people are having a problem with. Where where is that fine line of subjectiveness end >> and where does it begin? Do you see what

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I'm trying to say? If you're approving all the lighting standards, why does it matter for a garage door that doesn't face anywhere? If the lights meet the specification, then there's going to be no ambient light that's coming through that garage door. Why should that matter in a lighting review? >> So, that's why we and we'll get into

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that, but so garage door, if you're going to be operating a business, that garage door is probably going to be open usually when that business is operating and you're going to have interior lights that are full spectrum and say facing north. We have a S-shaped island that

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north will still be visible down the beach. I have uh for instance, Diamond Head. I was picking on Neil the other day. Um Diamond Head has a has a TV on the street side facing north. It is it is a bright it was a bright source of

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light um right in front of a nest uh that was that was uh you know and am I saying that that bright light is definitely going to cause a a disorientation? Maybe not. But there's a high probability that that that TV screen that is um I mean TVs are very

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much blue light that turtles are orders of magnitude more sensitive >> Chad. But how does that how does that have anything to do with to your to what you just said if my garage doors are going to be open during my business? Why should the spec of the garage door matter if during the business these lights are on and at night they're not

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and the garage door is closed? Well, the well the garage door would be probably I mean again business hours it's open at night you know tell you know give me an operational plan that says that that garage door is going to be going to be closed at night and if it's not closed at night then you have full spectrum light that is visible from the beach

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>> then why are we reviewing the lights inside I mean if the lights inside have to be compliant with the ordinance why are we reviewing the lights inside if the garage door is the ultimate definitive thing that sets it apart that's >> we're going to get to that's where the frustrations come >> sure yep we're going to get to these

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issues for sure. Um, I hear what you're saying. Um, and by the way, FWC is is also regards lights that are behind rollup style garage doors that are going to be open during operational hours at night as exterior lights even though

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they're under roof. in in our review process and when I'm coming in for a DOU, whether I'm commercial or residential, does it say anywhere in there that I'm going to have to show you the specs and how they relate to turtle compliance when it comes to doors, windows, garage doors? Is all that covered in the re? So, if I come in and

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I'm going to build a house that's going to have glass doors on it, does it tell me that I'm going to have to provide you the specs and how they relate to turtle compliancy along with the lights? >> So, we jumped from commercial to a house. I think we're, you know, we don't usually have houses with garage style

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doors on facing the beach or shore perpendicular to the beach, but if we have a business that has garage style doors such as Margaritavville, garage style doors um that are facing the beach or for instance a food truck park that's

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going to have a garage style door that's facing north that is still visible from the beach, then those under roof lights are regarded as exterior. Yes, sir. I Okay, continue on. I we're we're saying the same thing, I think, but

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>> Okay. And then so existing lighting um you know, our code in the LDC, everything needs to come into compliance by 2010. Um you know, existing artificial lighting shall not be indirectly, directly, cumulatively visible from any portion of the beach. And if any light fixture changes, please

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come and talk to us before you spend a whole lot of money on lights that may not be compliant. Uh we we've tried to make it as streamlined as possible with just a a a relatively cheap trade permit. Submit a lighting plan with the manufacturer specs for each fixture and

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light source. We'll review it and um and make sure that it's compliant before you spend, you know, four or five plus figures on on lighting. So FWC's goals real quick. So, keep it low. Uh, mount it as low as possible.

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Um, FWC doesn't approve exterior lights on beachfront properties that are, uh, on the second, third, etc. floor. Anything that's above the first habitable floor. So, I guess that might be the the third level, fourth level. FWC does not approve exterior lights.

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Um, and again, you know, they prefer ballards over poles and and all that kind of stuff. That seems pretty pretty straightforward. In addition, lowest possible brightness to achieve the foot candles that you might need for health and safety. Um, stairway, you know,

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stairway requirements, 10-ft candles on commercial buildings, etc. Um, >> is that just commercial, Chad, or is that residential as well? >> Uh, I believe it's commercial and multif family. Um, I don't pretend to be an expert in that life, health, and safety code, but I believe it's 10ft candles for commercial and multif family and

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then one foot candle uh for uh egress. >> Oh. >> Um, but I think single single family homes, not necessarily. It's just like the the doors and the stairway landings have to have a light, but not necessarily a foot candle minimum. >> Okay. Thanks.

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>> Um, so keep it shielded. We don't want to see that that light source directly visible. and uh long wavelength. So, amber, red, uh look for that manufacturer spec of, you know, 560 nmters or greater. That means it's a proper long wavelength. You know, not

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all not all uh you know, yellow, orange, red bulbs are are necessarily compliant. We don't uh authorize films and party bulbs and that kind of thing. Um and then the whole the statement about, you know, even a even amber, you know, turtles are not blind to amber and red

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lights. They're just less sensitive. So uh but our I think our illuminance standards uh take care of that with their maximum criteria and just some quick notes on other things that FWC looks at. Um for instance uh you know whenever they're doing step lights you

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know on the ground floor it might be 24 in whereas on the you know next level only 12 in because it's it's higher up. So, whenever you're dealing with more elevation on the third floor, um unless you have like a really long can to shield it, um because of the elevation

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and the angle down to the beach, it's very difficult to shield a light that's 20 30 plus feet up in the air. Okay. Now, the issues uh so defining exterior lighting, we do not have a

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clear definition of exterior lights in our code. So, we have a lot of fixtures that are under roof or under an overhang with no enclosing wall, no no enclosed walls, windows, doors, resulting in uh non-long wavelengths, so full white

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spectrum light um being visible from the beach. And this is a big issue for our restaurants. Um people want to see that their tomatoes are red, their spinach is green, and their meat is brown. Um and it's tough to do that. Um, I would argue that it's like a a warm candle at dinner, but not

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everybody is as romantic as I am. So, um, they, you know, they want to see the color of their feet, their food. Um, so, you know, how do we how do we get past this? If if if you have, you know, again, F, this is consistent with

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FWC. If you have um lights that are under roof but nothing enclosing it, nothing shielding it, we are regarding that as exterior and reviewing it accordingly. And we have a lot of projects that are coming down, you know, Salty Crab, the cottage, uh the goods

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store. Um a lot of these guys, they have this, you know, it's it's a, you know, balcony, uh or under roof, um lighting, so you can have that outdoor dining experience. Um but they want to be able to see their food. So, how do we how do we get past this? Um,

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another related issue is uh the request for dual lighting schemes. Much like when we were talking about our street lights, you know, we want to we want to have amber during sea turtle season and white during the um during non sea turtle season. So, uh the code does not

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allow for that. It says these lights shall be this period. There's no, you know, wavering on that. um if it's directly or indirectly visible. Um if it's not directly or indirectly visible and as long as you're meeting those lighting standards with the multi multiolor lights, then you know have at

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it. Um >> I'm glad you brought that up because that's always been a point of contention for me. We have technology out there that allows colors to change to pretty much whatever you want. Now whether there's specific manufacturers that allow if you dim it to an amber or you change the color temperature to an amber

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that meets the 560 requirement. I don't know. I'm not a lighting expert, but outside of see outside of turtle season when we have our busiest season, the fact that in our code, it doesn't allow a property owner to change their lights >> to me is a is a policy decision that we

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can make. I don't think there's anything in state statute that keeps us from doing that. It's not going to affect the turtles. Now, after busy season, you go back to turtles. I understand the issue that they won't change it back. That's where education and code enforcement comes in, right? But right now, we're restricting a property owner from

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allowing them to provide the best service to their customers or resident to provide the most safety to their family through a code because we don't allow that change. Those are the types of things that I think we need to discuss >> and put in place to allow a property owner to be able to do that. As long as you're being compliant during turtle

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season, whether it's shielded, whether it's down lights, whatever it may be in a in a sophet, that is a a thing that I think we're missing in our ordinance, >> right? Um, and it's it's a challenge and I will say that those that have um

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proposed this and say that they're going to do it, you know, I haven't seen it yet. I have not seen that, you know, that discipline to say we're in sea turtle season. I'm in the compliant mode now. Um, so it is tough. Um, I understand what you're

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saying in a in a perfect world, but you know, if it's not idiot proof, you're going to have some kind of commando that flips a switch. >> That's that's the problem. >> The proper lighting is idiot proof because it can be on all night and it will not cause an issue >> until they put a TV up on the north

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wall. It becomes an issue, right? So, it's not idiot proof. My my point is >> you got to allow some flexibility in here. Sure. You know, because what what this ordinance is doing is tempting people to go against the ordinance because they want to do what they want to do. They've met all the requirements,

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but outside of turtle season, they can't do it because this ordinance doesn't allow them to do it. >> You're going to have knuckleheads that do knucklehead things. Nobody's arguing that. But we have to provide some flexibility to people when they're building their businesses or they're building their homes. And those that are

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causing your job to be harder, then that's what code enforcement. But maybe I'm the only one that sees this. Or maybe I'm the only one. >> No, I don't I don't disagree with you. I'm just I'm I'm just giving you the consequences of if we go down this path. It's it strains enforcement. It It's

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impossible to keep up with. And people say they're going to do things and, you know, they don't follow. And you can say, "Well, that's just an enforcement matter." I mean, I'm getting I there's one day I got 33 emails complaints. That was just one day. Um it's it's uh it is

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impossible to keep up with and it affects our our permitting speed. You know, I mean I you know >> again I said at the beginning >> there's only one priority one person, right? >> You know, there's only so many things that one person can do. >> Um the joke is we're never we're never done at work. We just go home for the day, right? >> Um

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>> Amen. >> And get romantic. Um but that 33 was from one person. Correct. >> It was. It was. But >> who has a >> Well, I'll stop there. >> Sure. >> Well, are they legitimate? No. I mean, maybe it's someone who is

439
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>> No, they're they're legitimate. There are And that's that's the point. You know, whenever I'm enforcing something to somebody, um they'll say, "Well, look at them. Look at them. Look at them." And I say, "Listen, I got 80 letters out right now. We know that there's multiple violations out there. There are I mean there are legitimate complaints but um

440
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that I guess my point in saying that is it that's I'm illustrating the strain to code enforcement to try and keep up with that adequately while doing um you know other tasks. Um so once we go down that road

441
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if we're ser if we're going to allow that then you know resourcing the enforcement side is is going to become another topic. Um and then also along these lines, so TV screens, menu screens, um our code

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doesn't uh have a TV explicitly in the light source, even though it is. So making that explicitly defined as an artificial light source in our sea turtle conservation code and um explicitly requiring TV locations and orientations in our um sea turtle

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conservation code uh would be recommended. TVs are the worst light source whether they're direct or indirect. They I I last night I was at an establishment and looking at all the lights and just for fun I I did the

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spectrometer uh just to see what the TV looked like compared to uh long wavelength and even full spectrum and TVs definitely have the highest um peak on the on the blue wavelength which is what they're most sensitive to. So TVs

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are an issue and probably the worst. >> Where did you take that reading? Was it at the TV? Was it through the turtle from the glass? Where was >> Yeah, it's just it's at the TV. You have to any kind any reading >> from the beach. >> Um you could I mean you could see those TVs, but you're not going to whenever

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you take a reading, you're you're you're going to get the entire um ambient light. So if I take it from the beach, I'm I'm taking all the light, not just that TV. Does that make sense? >> That's my point. >> I don't I'm not sure I understand the

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point. >> That's my point. It it's like noise ordinance. If I stand a thousand feet away from it and take a reading, you're picking up all the ambient noise. How do you know specifically it's coming from that one spot? >> Well, your your eyes. The eyes, you know, your your your visual is always

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the best tool. And that's what they teach you whenever you do the sea turtle lighting uh webinars. Your eyes are your best tool to see what the issues are. And what I say to everybody is, you know, first I'm looking at the screamers, right? And TVs are screamers. And so whenever I look out, the

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brightest thing I'm seeing is a TV. So let's, you know, let's get rid of the screamers and then we'll start seeing the talkers and then, you know, then there's going to be some whispers after you get everything cleared. But you can tell which which lights are problematic and which aren't. >> Chad, I have a question for you to the

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mayor's point. So um, you asked the question, where were you putting the meter? By the TV or out in the, you know, in the golf on the beach. Is it the same or or not as sound? So if I'm

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at a establishment and I'm hearing a sound, but if I go at the be go to the beach, I may not hear it as loud. Are you saying to me that because I can see that light from the beach, it's not about how loud it is. It's the fact that I it it's visible to the beach and that

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causes a problem. >> It's it's both. It's going to be brightness and it's going to be wavelength. The brighter it is, the bluer it is, the higher probability you're going to cause an issue for the sea turtles. The the less bright it is, the the long wavelength, they're less

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sensitive to it by orders of magnitude, the less probability. It's it's about minimizing the impact. I mean, we're never going to have no impact on the beach. We're just we're not that beach. Um, we have people here. We have, you know, it's it's going to be always be a balance, but it's about minimizing that

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impact. So, um, it's it's a it's a spectrum. It's not a it's not a black and white thing. >> Okay. >> Does that answer your question? >> It does because I was at the beach the other night just to understand this a little better and looking at the fact that we're a crescentshaped beach for some reason, I bad analogy, but the

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light bulb went off. So, somebody that's living on either end who has something in their front yard that I could actually see on the beach that I never would have thought of cuz I'm thinking, "Hey, I'm on the golf, but it's my the front of my house. Why should I care?" Or the side of my house or that I can

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see down the coast. So, it's seeing the light as well as how intense it is when you're near the light. >> Yep. Sorry for >> understanding. >> Yes, ma'am. I'm sorry. I forgot if I'm not switching the things. I'm trying to do two and then not remembering to

457
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switch it on both. Um yeah, so screens. So um we have exterior lighting definition challenges. We have um you know uh trying to uh facilitate businesses to um make money and and give

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a good experience and with dual lighting schemes. Um and we also have TVs. um you know you know we have the beach there at night you know kind of a sports bar you know etc again trying to facilitate restaurants to uh and businesses to um

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you know make make make a good living so how do we how do we get past this so operational plans may be a possible solution um you know just like any any differences of opinions different needs and wants from different it's going to be it's going to be a compromise it's

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going to be a challenge I'm not saying it's it It's the solution, but we have a good um test case with Margaritavville. Uh they are a bit of an exception in the triple CL permitting process because of their size. They also were required to

461
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have a environmental resource permit for their storm order which gave FWC uh a different permitting bite at the apple and allowed FWC with a triple CL permit. FD looks at it, you pass, and then they they forget about it or not

462
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forget about it, but they don't have any more regulatory. Once they once they sign off on it, that permit's closed. They don't have any more regulatory. Whereas with the environmental resource permit, um uh they they can set conditions in perpetuity much like we do with a development development order.

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So, um FWC's approved plan um has a special condition which um addresses, you know, screens, TVs, let's put them when are they operating, when are they not operating, and that um

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it's not consistent, right? The TVs that are uh right next to the beach, don't face them towards the beach, put shrouds on them. the TVs that are facing away from the beach, turn them off at 9 or 10 o'clock depending on the distance. Um, so

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um putting uh uh um uh time constraints on those light sources um in the operational plan explicitly. And you know, if we have TVs that are facing the beach in addition to being turned off, put a shroud on them just in case

466
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somebody hits a remote whenever they're leaving for the night or or whatever, have that failsafe plan that we know this TV, if it's on, it's right on the beach. It's going to cause an issue. So, let's put an opaque shroud on it so we know it's not going to cause an issue at night. Um, we have the garage style

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doors. So, uh, Margaritavville is mandated to close those garage style doors at 11:00. Um, not that much is happening there after 11:00, but there, you know, in sea in in in in sea turtle season, you know, maybe it's a late night and so they close that. And then

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they were also required um in this operational plan to have a 12% visual transmittance. Um so that if there are lights for cleaning and other things that happen in a bar after it's closed that those full spectrum lights that are

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associated with that activity are mitigated with a 12% VT. So pretty dark tent to prevent um impact out on the beach. Um and again that whenever they reviewed the Margaritavville, you know,

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all those lights that are um in the Lid bar were mandated to be amber. So, um that is it's a very warm um lit environment. Do they get complaints? Yes, they get they do get complaints that it's not lit enough. Um

471
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uh but it is, you know, whenever those garage doors are open or if you have a completely open air type setup, um those uh under roof lights are um in practicality exterior. there's nothing shielding them and there's no difference

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from them being on the side of the building versus under that roof if they're visible from the beach. >> So, do you think in your experience in dealing with these businesses and homeowners, if they had the ability outside of turtle season when our busiest time of the year is here and we have the most people, they can control

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their lighting the way that they want to control it to provide the best experience for their guests? Do you think that that would reduce the amount of complaints they get >> outside of t sea turtle season? outside of T. Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, the the technology is there. We talked to some pretty savvy business owners. You know, they're

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setting up a server so that it, you know, it's controlling it and, you know, I mean, you know, computers are, >> you know, subject to their operators and mistakes can happen and whatever, but you know, can it be done? Sure. Um, will human

475
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error happen? Sure. But I think it's, you know, it's it's worth having a conversation about. Um, but again, the proof is in the pudding. And if you're saying you're going to have this dual lighting scheme and I'm going to be compliant during sea turtle

476
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season, please show me. And I I'm just I'm struggling to see it to see it today. Um, any other questions on operational plans? So, just to be clear, currently

477
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what the mayor asked is not currently available based on what we have the dual plan or are you saying it is with the right operational plan? >> No, it's not it's not authorizable at

478
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this stage. We don't the only um >> only lighting that we approve if you're directly or indirectly only exterior lighting that we approve directly or indirectly visible from the beach is long wavelength downward directed and shielded from the beach. >> Okay.

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>> This is where I I support you, mayor, is that we're we can't go to a dual lighting system because it's not idiot proof. But yet nothing up there is idiot proof either. But that's acceptable. put a shroud over. What if I forget when I'm in a hurry to leave? You got you got

480
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humans involved. >> And I agree. I mean, TVs are not a long wavelength light source, right? So, why would they even allow it? And you know, I just said to myself, listen, if FWC, who's in charge of the wildlife, is saying this is a good model. FWC is the

481
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same folks that use the autoglass to come up with their window tents for buildings. I'm not I don't have a lot of faith in FWC. >> Right. Okay. >> So, there's a human element there, too. >> Sure.

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>> I guess my point is that we're we are trying to work with them in this DO process. 7-Eleven um gave us an operational plan that was, you know, comprehensive and um >> which 7-Eleven? >> Both of them so far. So the 7-Eleven,

483
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>> one of them, one of them is like not the one down south. >> One of them is like a police song, Roxan, you don't have to put out the red light tonight. >> Right. So that one, we didn't have an operational plan for that one. They went all uh long wavelength lights. Um but

484
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the 3000 block and the uh one next to uh Waste and Away in Margaritavville um both have operational plans to uh address um mostly the the worry over there is interior lights and um turning off those interior lights or minimizing shielding those interior lights at night

485
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um after business hours. Any other questions on operational plans? So, another big issue, interior lights. They're a significant source of light pollution. Um, especially in our our condos and highrises as well as houses. You know, we have a lot of uh rentals

486
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and people get on vacation mode, vacation brain, and head out for happy hour when it's um daylight. Sorry. Head out for for um happy hour whenever it's daylight and come back home and

487
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realize they left all the lights on, all the windows open, kind of thing. So, it happens. Um, I understand the frustration with the belt and suspenders argument. Um, you know, why are you requiring me to have window coverings if

488
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I already have the state mandate at 45%. So, window tenting um it it does not necessarily it it mitigates the light, it does not stop all of the light. um 45% of the sun is still a pretty bright light. And you

489
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have some pretty bright lights that are 5,000K or a TV that is 5,000K putting out a lot of blue light that is visible from the beach and has a high probability of causing a disorientation. So if we our intent is to try and minimize

490
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the probability of causing disorientations, then you know that's why uh you know whenever you were on council two or three years ago, y'all voted for adding those window coverings in addition to the the >> except for the person that that put that

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in there. The counselor that interjected that into the the ordinance voted against it. >> Sure. But um so that is critical. >> Sure. So that is that is that is in the books and um that is why we're requiring

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it. And the reason why is because a percentage of a really bright light is can still cause disorientation um of sea turtles. And the in my mind the only surefire way that you would stop interior light from becoming an issue would be if you if everybody had

493
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automatic blackout shades. Am I saying that that's what y'all are going to do? I don't think that that is going to happen. But automated blackout shades that come down at 9:00 would be pretty much the only failsafe way to or most failsafe way to um

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uh stop interior light from being visible from the beach. Um >> but how many more layers? I mean using that picture I'm assuming that's a house that's on the beach. >> Yes. So, I'm guessing it probably has

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the curtains that's required. I'm guessing it probably has the 45% tint that's required, >> right? >> Um, from that picture, I can't tell if it's if it's a light or if it's a TV mounted facing north versus south towards the beach.

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>> These are all these are all lights that are facing the beach. Um, and it's actually a house that's under construction, which is another point. you know, whenever houses are under construction, um, you know, you know, this this this caused a disorientation. This house caused a disorientation. I spoke with a

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very, um, you know, reputable and always very easy to work with, good to work with builder and said, "Hey, you know, in a response, how can we make this happen? Can we, you know, subcontractors, we all know some contractors, they come in, they do their job, there's trash everywhere, there's

498
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whatever. all they care about is making sure they connect to the wire that they're going to get paid for and they're out. So, they're going to leave lights on um during that construction process. And we have a lot more construction that's going to be happening. You know, maybe we mandate that they put brown paper up on the

499
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windows after they install them so that if somebody leaves the lights on um while that house is under construction um it doesn't cause an issue. So that's that's that's another reason why I put this h this house up there because this house was actually this isn't vacation

500
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brain. This is sub subcontractor brain um happening. So um and again it's it this isn't the first and it probably won't be the last. So maybe we have some sort of mandate with houses on the beach whenever they um are constructing and

501
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they've installed once they in uh you know electrify that house all the windows need to be um blacked out with um you know brown paper or or whatever is easiest. Um so after you know we had a pretty

502
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controversial uh we followed state uh modeling ordinance 15% and had some um back and forth and revised our ordinance to go back to 45%. Um FWC has since done a study um looking at what the effects

503
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of uh visual light transmittance are on sea turtle hatchlings. um you know scientific method uh looking at where does a significant difference in disorientation occur as uh visual light

504
02:19:33.519 --> 02:19:49.439
transmittance goes from 45 to 30 to you know 20 or whatever the different treatments were. and they noticed that um attraction fell roughly 18 to 22% and hatchlings responded um

505
02:19:49.439 --> 02:20:05.920
uh nearly the same between 50 and 30%. So there wasn't a whole lot of difference between 15 and 30%. Um and so therefore they said you know because we see a significant difference once we go under 30% visual light transmittance that is our that is our recommendation

506
02:20:05.920 --> 02:20:23.439
based on um this study. When was that study completed and published? >> 2025. Last year. >> Well, I'm not sure that that's correct because the the folks I work with that were with the glass industry worked with FWC on this and as of December, it still

507
02:20:23.439 --> 02:20:39.520
hadn't been finalized. It was still 45% and they still hadn't completed that study. This one's this one's published uh I believe it's in the uh a nature journal nature or nature conservation. I can get you the article.

508
02:20:39.520 --> 02:20:55.120
I'll send it over to you. Yes, sir. >> Thank you. >> I seem to remember you talked about the meeting when this was discussed and stated the 45% window tint. There was a lot of discussion about why it was needed. I think I don't think you were on the council at the time, but you >> No, but that's the issue that I got involved in. So,

509
02:20:55.120 --> 02:21:12.479
>> yeah. So, but they was well because of TVs, right? if they have a TV and the curtains. And so there was a lot of talk about, at least my recollection, was a lot of talk about this will eliminate the issue of televisions or someone forgetting to leave a bathroom light on because they, you know, they don't want their kid, they don't have a nightlight,

510
02:21:12.479 --> 02:21:28.800
they want to have a bathroom light on. And we were assured that, you know, doing this would be the best way to do it, having the 45% tint, making all new construction go to it, having the curtains, and now we're piling on again. Now we're saying you, nope, your TV. God forbid you leave your bathroom door open for your 5-year-old to find the bathroom

511
02:21:28.800 --> 02:21:44.800
in the middle of the night because that light might not >> or your old person >> or your own or your own right as you get older. But that that's that's the concern. And again, we can go through every single thing and talk about it, but we have to be able to stop piling on

512
02:21:44.800 --> 02:22:00.800
at some point. at some point there there's nothing idiot proof and we just keep adding more and more and more stuff to these people and they're getting frustrated and they're pushing back and they're pushing back hard and our job is to bring that to staff and say this is

513
02:22:00.800 --> 02:22:16.640
what we're hearing but so far all I'm hearing is too bad you're an idiot and this is why we have to tell you how to manage your property and I don't think that is a good message to be sending either. I think having discussions and opening it up to allow people to be adults and take care of their property

514
02:22:16.640 --> 02:22:33.600
and if you're being a bad actor then then you pay the consequences. Maybe your consequences are higher than what they are now. Maybe we have that discussion. I don't know. But to to penalize every single new construction anywhere on the island to not allow flexibility to me is a disservice to the

515
02:22:33.600 --> 02:22:48.160
people of this island. >> Yeah. My my observation has been whenever I condition it and ask them to be adults and read the read the code and follow it, it you know more often than not or I shouldn't say more often than not, there have been a number, you know,

516
02:22:48.160 --> 02:23:04.399
on the order of dozens of examples that are not even complying with the lighting standards code, much less the sea turtle conservation code. >> And now they're being cited. >> Yeah, we we have 80 some odd warning letters out. Yes, sir. in there. >> And of the ones that are being cited,

517
02:23:04.399 --> 02:23:19.920
have they corrected the actions and have they become repeat offenders? I >> I don't have the resources to do analytics at present. I mean, right now I'm on warning letters. If I if I had the resources to already been issuing NOVs and NOH's >> Oh, that's good to know. >> That would have happened. Um, but having

518
02:23:19.920 --> 02:23:36.960
said that, most people whenever they get that letter, um, even though it's educational, it's, you know, it it it does motivate them to come into compliance. Um, unfortunately, it's usually I'll turn off the light rather than get into compliance properly with

519
02:23:36.960 --> 02:23:53.359
your lighting plan that was approved by staff. >> Mhm. >> Um, and then again, if it's if it's just a light switch away or or a connection away from being um turned back on, inevitably either that season or the next season, it'll be the same conversation. similar to the short-term

520
02:23:53.359 --> 02:24:10.960
rentals. Uh then isn't isn't there something we can do to track that as far as as uh Frankie, I'm looking at you, I guess, as far as software or something. >> Absolutely. I mean, we we have all the code cases. There's there's a history of it. It's been

521
02:24:10.960 --> 02:24:26.080
um you know, we're in a unique situation with Hurricane Ian, Hurricane Adalia, >> Milton, etc. um that you know we have been trying to work with property owners and get them

522
02:24:26.080 --> 02:24:43.720
to build back properly so that we don't have the issues. Um but yes we are we are able to track it. Do I have numbers and the resources to do the quantitative analysis and and look at things? Uh no sir but could it be done? Absolutely.

523
02:24:48.880 --> 02:25:04.240
And then also so flag poles. Um so sea turtle conservation code says you know um all outdoor lighting shall be downward directed um you know long wavelength shielded from the beach. Um I get questions about

524
02:25:04.240 --> 02:25:20.560
you know can we put it on top of it but you don't really get very many um amber lights you know that are going to be shielded to illuminate a flag. Um it's not and you know FWC you know frowns upon just like tree strap lights that

525
02:25:20.560 --> 02:25:36.399
are up there being shined down on. So you know putting putting a a white light on top is not necessarily better. So then how do we you know how do we illuminate the flag for those that want to you know comply with um you know best

526
02:25:36.399 --> 02:25:50.640
practices for raising the flag. Um, and I think there's some opportunities to maybe we're limiting the lumens, maybe we're um limiting the Kelvin so it's more of a, you know, 2700 or 3,000

527
02:25:50.640 --> 02:26:07.680
Kelvin rather than a 5,000 Kelvin um uh light, you know, just to just to reduce that blue light that's in there. Um, you know, enforcement on flag lighting is always tough. It's not something um I like doing, but I think if we can give some guidance and make

528
02:26:07.680 --> 02:26:23.040
sure that the uplights are shielded and pointed away from the beach um and allow for that explicitly cuz right now people ask me and I'm like, >> you know, can we do it? It's not really authorizable by code. Um and and those lights can cause issues if they're not

529
02:26:23.040 --> 02:26:40.240
shielded. You know, if you just have a an unshielded bright white light on the ground, just the dynamics of the beach being lower and it being on the ground, you can you can some sometimes see those flags or like this. This is the old Windom where I would get complaints that it's visible from the CWA and causing

530
02:26:40.240 --> 02:26:56.800
issues with hatchlings orienting towards that flag that's lit. That was never popular with Mr. John. Well, I mean, if you look at that, the intent of uplighting, whether it's tree lighting or it's for a flag, is to illuminate the object itself. That to me

531
02:26:56.800 --> 02:27:13.040
doesn't look like it's protruding up into the air. It's it's highlighting exactly what it's intended to do, right? >> Is it visible from the beach? Sure. Is there do we have I'm assuming if someone has complaints, do they have data proving that that caused a disorientation?

532
02:27:13.040 --> 02:27:27.760
I I can ask, you know, but again, it's it's it's blue, bright blue light reflecting off a silver surface of the pole and the and the flag. And I understand what you're saying. I mean, there you don't know how many times I'm I'm driving down the beach and I see a light. I'm like, you know, is that

533
02:27:27.760 --> 02:27:43.840
little step light, you know, that little white light that's on that step right on the beach, is that really going to cause a sea turtle sea turtle hatchling to go the wrong way? And unfortunately, and I, you know, I feel bad and it's, yes, it did. You know, it's crazy. I mean, the

534
02:27:43.840 --> 02:28:01.439
the they're natural light detectors that just orient themselves. When you think of something that's orienting itself by starlight that's reflecting off of water and how faint that is, >> devil's advocate using your scenario. If I'm a homeowner who's using that property or it's my house, if that light

535
02:28:01.439 --> 02:28:18.399
is not there, is it possible that someone could fall down the stairs because it's not there? It's possible. doesn't mean it's going to happen. >> But illumin again, but illuminate it with the proper lighting and and everybody's happy. >> Yeah, I think there's guidelines out there, right? I mean, we're not advocating for not being safe. I know

536
02:28:18.399 --> 02:28:33.439
you're not. >> And again, I never advocate for darkness. >> That the the science is there to tell us how to do both, right? >> Yes, ma'am. >> Chad, I have a technical question. You mentioned taking u the phototric

537
02:28:33.439 --> 02:28:50.399
readings from the beach and it being you know very broad spectrum. Are there the equivalent equivalent instruments that can actually measure in a much more focused beam or is everything always ambient and that's the way they mention

538
02:28:50.399 --> 02:29:04.720
them? >> So what I use the spectrometer for is you want to see what the wavelength is of individual lights. >> Yeah. >> All right. So, you have to get right up on there. I mean, if you take amber, if you take ambient light, it's always going to be a full spectrum of what's

539
02:29:04.720 --> 02:29:21.520
out there. And it may not even detect. I mean, this if it's that far away, it probably isn't even bright enough to actually detect it cuz that's not what that's for. Um, but they do have light meters where you're basically just taking in the foot candles and seeing how bright it is out there. Um, it's not

540
02:29:21.520 --> 02:29:38.720
necessarily saying that that's long wavelength, short wavelength, but it's just an a a luminance value. Um, but the spectrometer is more to see what individual lights are they compliant with our >> So, you do that very close quarters

541
02:29:38.720 --> 02:29:54.560
whereas the other is Okay. >> Yeah. That way you're only taking that light, you know, you're not >> different tools for different outputs. >> Yes. >> Yeah. Yeah, I was hoping there was like a scope type instrument that you could actually focus in on. >> I think he's saying it's your eyes. >> Yeah. I mean, that's what they

542
02:29:54.560 --> 02:30:09.920
>> It's your eyes and the turtle's eyes, right? >> That's what's taught is the eyes and that's your best tool for recognizing problematic lights. So, here's a house that um you know is an example of follow sea turtle conservation code and technical lighting standards. And you

543
02:30:09.920 --> 02:30:24.960
know, this is very visible from the beach. And um you know just another example of how unless you actually review every fixture and every light um they will you know they'll light it up um however. So this light is not even if

544
02:30:24.960 --> 02:30:39.600
it was um even if you ignore the sea turtle lighting it's not in compliance with the lighting standards code of downward directed or sorry fully shielded full cut off etc. In addition it's four stories tall. You have four

545
02:30:39.600 --> 02:30:56.240
stories of lights. So um you know do we >> is this a new build? Is this exactly new build? >> So what you're saying is that they change the lights after your review. >> No. So again um after hurricane Ian even and I mean I've been here for seven

546
02:30:56.240 --> 02:31:11.840
years whenever >> um you know we always reviewed houses we always reviewed everything waterwood of the triple CL and only commercial multif family landward of Astera. So we we wouldn't really this is this is on the other side of a stereo policy before was

547
02:31:11.840 --> 02:31:27.200
we weren't really reviewing it but it is conditioned hey you still need to follow the code and those codes are listed um you'll see an evolution of my conditions going from you know a few snippets to very detailed this is what you have to

548
02:31:27.200 --> 02:31:43.600
do comply with lighting standards etc um in those reviews but and again unless you're telling them yes this is okay No, this is not they'll they'll just put the latest and greatest LED fixture that that they like and um

549
02:31:43.600 --> 02:31:59.359
it'll be an issue. >> Yeah. No, I get I was just curious if this was a house that was built after Hurricane Ian. >> Yes. >> So, it had So, it did go through your lighting review. >> No, it did. It did not have a It was just a It was just a conditional, you

550
02:31:59.359 --> 02:32:15.439
know, get it going conditional review. So it's only in the last year or so that I've you know because of the basically since we had you know what 29 disorientations last year that was the we need to review everything because we're having a lot of light you know we're having more issues on the base

551
02:32:15.439 --> 02:32:34.240
side of the sterile boulevard than we are having on the beach side. Um but again I also illustrated this you know FWC does not allow exterior lights above the first habitable um floor. So that's typically reserved

552
02:32:34.240 --> 02:32:49.280
for beach side. Um and again everything is um circumstantial. uh you know somebody who has uh mangrove forest and you know a/4 mile of beach in front of them you know if they have a uh

553
02:32:49.280 --> 02:33:05.600
a wall sconce that's you know a deep can um you know that's going to still be shielded at that angle. Whereas if you have a a short beach and um that same wall sconce might not have the angle to do it or if they have uh recessed ceiling lighting it's definitely not

554
02:33:05.600 --> 02:33:23.040
going to be um doing it. So maybe something explicitly limiting uh you know above which floors uh similar to what FWC does for their triple cell triple CL reviews. Um but we're having a proliferation of set lighting. Um and

555
02:33:23.040 --> 02:33:46.399
then with the uh you know rooftop floors and having those illuminated, we're just having uh you know string lights and and other um lighting issues that are high up and visible from the beach. Uh and then also um you know again you

556
02:33:46.399 --> 02:34:03.920
know beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Um some people just really like these really bright you know blue lights. They feel like you know it's it's somewhat of our demographic just being able to see um you know see well they want full color etc. Um 3,00 Kelvin

557
02:34:03.920 --> 02:34:19.840
is not it's not a you know a yellow light by any means, but it is a bit warmer. Um but you can see as you go, you know, those blue lights, you know, that's if you look at that blue line, that's kind of what I saw with the TV, what you would see with the the the blue light. And then as you go down, as you

558
02:34:19.840 --> 02:34:37.120
go down in Kelvin towards 3,000 or 2700, you get more of that red profile that is a lot less blue light and uh heavier on the longer wavelengths. So, um it's just something to think about if you know if you know with the lighting standards and bayside properties, you don't

559
02:34:37.120 --> 02:34:54.560
necessarily need to have amber, but if we have more of the you know 3 2700 and 3,000 klights rather than the 5,000 klights, the overall cumulative effect of lighting on the island would be less impact from sea turtle nesting habitat.

560
02:34:54.560 --> 02:35:10.399
Well, I think what's important about that is to your point, the eyes, it's in the eye of the beholder, right? But when you talk about looking at food and you're talking about, you know, I want to see my apples red. Well, that has nothing to do with the Kelvin temperature. That has to do with the CRI rating of the bulb or the fixture. Maybe

561
02:35:10.399 --> 02:35:26.319
that's something that would put it because if you want to see something, the higher the CR rating, >> the higher the what? >> The CRI rating of a light actually brings out the colors more than the Kelvin temperature does. >> Okay. You know, more than me. That's what I've been trying to tell everybody for the last seven years, but nobody wants to listen to me because I'm just

562
02:35:26.319 --> 02:35:41.920
the dope. But I've been in the lighting business for a long time. I know what I'm talking about. And I know the technologies out there to be able to do exactly what all of us want to do. Protect the environment, but allow public safety as well. But nobody in the environmental world wants to seem to listen to it. Again, back to Dr. Trell

563
02:35:41.920 --> 02:35:58.399
when I said we could make these lights dimmable. She goes, "We don't like to use unproven technology. The dimmer's been around since the 50s, >> right? I guarantee you probably everybody in their house has a dimmer in their house. It's not new technology. It's the afraid being afraid to use the new technology. I always get the answer,

564
02:35:58.399 --> 02:36:14.160
what if? >> What if? >> Sure. >> Imagine if every municipality made decisions on what ifs. >> Nothing would ever be done, right? >> And that's all I'm trying to get to. I don't >> I don't want to make this about I'm trying to say don't protect the turtles. What I'm trying to say is allow flexibility to people to be adults and

565
02:36:14.160 --> 02:36:29.200
use technology that's readily available to them to be able to do some of this. As we're continuing to go into the AI world, people are going to be able to just say a simple word and it's going to do exactly what you want it to do. It'll set your CRI rating. It's going to set your Kelvin temperature and it'll do it. You can do it from your phone. You can

566
02:36:29.200 --> 02:36:45.439
open your garage door from Minnesota if you're I mean the techn is there to use it. I just want to make this ordinance allow you the flexibility to be able to do it because I think once you do that, you will see more people come into compliance because they have the ability to do it much quicker. If you call

567
02:36:45.439 --> 02:37:00.880
someone and I call Scott, hey, your your your tenants are in this building and they got their lights on. Well, guess what? I can go to my phone and I can shut I can shut the curtains. I could do all of that. But we don't allow that with lighting. And that's what I'm trying to get to. Use the technology

568
02:37:00.880 --> 02:37:16.080
that's there to make your job easier. and people that want to build beautiful houses or commercial properties to be able to use the technology outside of when the turtles are actually nesting. That's that's all I'm trying to get at. I'm not trying to change anything that you talked about today when it comes to

569
02:37:16.080 --> 02:37:32.800
coming into compliance with FWC. I'm just trying to say let's allow this ordinance to be the flexibility to be able to do help you do your job. That's what I'm trying to get to. >> I understand. >> I think Dr. Tindle retired. So um we

570
02:37:32.800 --> 02:37:48.720
also have these FPL regular regulated lights and you know they're the technology there is you know they can basically have remote controls and turn them on turn them off and FPL is doing that. We have lights coming on and off all the time over at Mango all of a sudden it just came on in the middle of

571
02:37:48.720 --> 02:38:04.000
the season over next to Lonni Kai that's lighting up a adjacent parking lot just came on you know they just install it. the technology exist, but then those lights that are super bright, very high, all of a sudden came on without any kind

572
02:38:04.000 --> 02:38:21.120
of notice. So, these pole lights are lighting private property. They're not street lights per se. So, um, we talked with, uh, Frankie, and Frankie has, um, broached the subject with FPL on, you know, if you're going to put in a pole

573
02:38:21.120 --> 02:38:36.479
light that is, you know, illuminating a private property, that should be something that we're taking a look at >> and and and, you know, having a say in rather than it just coming, you know, just being installed. and all these white lights that are next to beach accesses that have have the technology

574
02:38:36.479 --> 02:38:52.080
to be turned off remotely, but it's somehow they're just coming on and nobody's paying attention to them. Why can't they press that button to turn it off? So, we're trying to get that with FPL um to address these uh the regulated lights as the class that they're in, as

575
02:38:52.080 --> 02:39:07.840
well as um there are regulated lights on some of our side streets that are still white lights. So, the pipe dream of having all amber street lights right now is not happening cuz it's a different class of lights and they only did the unregulated. We still have the regulated

576
02:39:07.840 --> 02:39:25.280
um uh hurdle to jump um on those lights to get those converted to amber and we're currently exploring that. Well, again, it goes back to the subjectivity, right? I get people asking me all the time, you've got so many light poles down a sterile boulevard. Why do some have shielding and some don't? Well, if

577
02:39:25.280 --> 02:39:40.479
everybody's got to play by the same rules, right? Why are this why are the crosswalks not illuminated? They're much brighter lights that span that out much more and they're not shielded, but everyone the town's got. >> So, not everybody's playing by the same rules. Even when you just drive down a stair boulevard, you see it.

578
02:39:40.479 --> 02:39:55.120
>> Correct. And that's being addressed by FWC with the county. >> Oh, is it? >> Yes, sir. >> Oh, good. Okay. >> So, just some some lighting resources for property owners. I just wanted to include this in here that way people can see it. It is up on our website.

579
02:39:55.120 --> 02:40:12.800
um you know FMB gov back sea turtle and then there's my contact information again um you know reach out let me know what you're going to install before you install it rather than spending a lot of money on things that are are going to cause issues. So

580
02:40:12.800 --> 02:40:28.720
happy to address any questions or discuss um any uh any particular concerns. >> Well, since we've got you on the spotlight. >> Sure. as a Oh, I didn't I didn't do that on purpose. I swear I didn't do that on

581
02:40:28.720 --> 02:40:44.960
purpose. The >> obviously we know you're one person, right? >> What as a council can we do to help you make your job easier to help either spread the word or help with code enforcement? What is it that we can do? Is it more people? Is it more software? What What is it that we can do as a

582
02:40:44.960 --> 02:41:00.880
council to be able to help you do your job better? >> Uh I mean, I had a great intern uh this uh this summer. um it worked out really well. Uh she um was instrumental in doing the

583
02:41:00.880 --> 02:41:15.920
paperwork that we needed for sea turtle stuff. Um you know, I'm doing development review, permit review, inspections on the tail end. Um you know, managing grants, managing product, uh projects, uh as well as this code

584
02:41:15.920 --> 02:41:32.720
enforcement. um you know, in addition to the resiliency, you know, vulnerability analysis and and um adaptation plan and helping out storm water and um I'm stretched pretty thin. So, the more staff I had, I'm confident I can train

585
02:41:32.720 --> 02:41:49.200
um young minds that want to know and want to have a similar role that I have um to accomplish this. So, I would take as much staff as you would budget me. Well, what I'm what I'm getting at is, you know, all lighting all lighting fixtures have specs, right? And most

586
02:41:49.200 --> 02:42:04.479
lighting designers are going to highlight which light they're going to use, which specific light they're going to use. Would having an administrative or an intern person help you to be able to do that part of it? Because if I'm a homeowner and I'm coming in and I've got to wait two and a half months because

587
02:42:04.479 --> 02:42:20.479
Chad's only one person to get to the review of of my permit to be able to move my my house forward. Would someone like that be able to say, "Okay, I've got the light or we require I don't even know if we require lighting designers to provide a exact specification of the light that they're going to use

588
02:42:20.479 --> 02:42:37.200
highlighted in red or whatever saying this is the spec. Here's how it meets it. This and it can match up to what you've already got in place. Yep, this matches it. Move on. Yeah, I can train people for sure. >> Mayor, I have some comments. >> Yeah, go ahead. >> Um, so Albert Damrose, who was the

589
02:42:37.200 --> 02:42:53.439
architect on my home, I met him early on, John, with you and um do through the Let's Go FM, and he's been a integral part of our community. We all know Albert. He's also built a home here. He built my home. Um he reached out to me the other day knowing this was coming up

590
02:42:53.439 --> 02:43:10.160
on the agenda and he said, "Rebecca, I'm with you. we want to do this right from the beginning and he made some very good recommendations and he asked that I share them. Uh and so he said as an architect we can look to see what other

591
02:43:10.160 --> 02:43:26.160
communities are doing. A lot of it is education but he agrees that let's do this on the front end. So, some of the suggestions he had, he also sent me some links, uh, places that are doing this really well, like Santael,

592
02:43:26.160 --> 02:43:43.600
um, the Sea Turtle Conservancy has brochures, some of the other coastal communities, and a lot of it is education upfront. So, he said he would like to see us consider having uh maybe lunch and learn sessions. we where we

593
02:43:43.600 --> 02:43:59.840
bring in some of the big architectural firms that we that we know are here, you know, some of them, you know, working with them. Um some contractors, you know, just the stakeholders and do an education. Uh he also recommended that

594
02:43:59.840 --> 02:44:15.279
um we have brochures like this maybe on our website that simple it that simplify it. When I looked at the ordinance, so I just built a home. Albert did it. He said, "You didn't have to go through these requirements." Then I talked to

595
02:44:15.279 --> 02:44:31.680
other people and they go, "Well, yeah, but you're second and third story that's kind of causing a problem." And to the mayor's point, I spent thousands of dollars putting light fixtures outside and inside only to find out that I could have made a better choice, but I didn't really know.

596
02:44:31.680 --> 02:44:48.240
So, some of these brochures are so helpful because they tell a homeowner. I mean, some of them are just pictures. They are so simple to read that I think we can start with education like you're saying so people aren't spending money.

597
02:44:48.240 --> 02:45:03.760
You know, this is kind of what you can do, what you shouldn't do, when you need a permit, when you need a review um to try to catch some of these right from the start. Maybe with everyone who comes in for a permit for a new build,

598
02:45:03.760 --> 02:45:19.920
maybe this is one of the things they go home with. You know, just a cheat sheet. not the legal ease, but the cheat sheet to say, you know, these are the things you consider. Albert was perfectly acceptable and amendable to saying, you know, if I knew some of these things and

599
02:45:19.920 --> 02:45:35.520
it was really defined for me, we'd put it in in the drawings. You know, they they'll try to cover it. So, some things to consider, some educational tools for residents as well as architects and builders and some um lunch and learns

600
02:45:35.520 --> 02:45:51.920
with some of the stakeholders just to continue it on an ongoing basis to try to capture some of this stuff on the front end. >> Yes, ma'am. >> John, any comments? Well, I think couple of things that I've heard on the

601
02:45:51.920 --> 02:46:06.720
resources is that you're now going out and doing the reviewing of all of the properties, even if they are landward of the CCL, residential, commercial, multif family, all of them.

602
02:46:06.720 --> 02:46:22.000
I would think that that is requiring you to do reviews of a bunch of properties that probably have zero impact to to the sea turtles the actual problem. >> I would disagree. >> You would disagree with that? >> Yes, sir. >> Okay.

603
02:46:22.000 --> 02:46:40.479
>> Yeah. I mean, it's it's >> Yeah, it's, you know, two, three, four lots back where you might say, you know, look how far back. I mean, I hear it all the time. And then um you know you get a dozen 5,000 K 1,000 lu lights that are

604
02:46:40.479 --> 02:46:56.960
shining down and because the elevation >> I guess that's the other side of it is everything that's going in is going in taller now. So it's >> more vis it's going in higher. >> Yep. And then Yeah. Exactly. >> And then you get third and fourth stories there. >> So and I mean I invite any of y'all if you'all want to come out at night and

605
02:46:56.960 --> 02:47:12.800
look at lights. You know it's it's a party. I was out till 1:30 last night. So, um, it's it's a lot of fun. >> It does change your perspective if you go out at night. I can see what you're saying. >> Um, and currently the operational plans

606
02:47:12.800 --> 02:47:28.800
are not something that is that can be considered. >> We're we're we're so once Margaritavville and FWC said this is a way forward. Um I have been asking that of

607
02:47:28.800 --> 02:47:45.200
um you know with you know you have the cottage, you have the food truck park, you have salty crab, you have the 7-Elevens um a lot of a lot of businesses where um with the you know the good store where

608
02:47:45.200 --> 02:48:02.319
they have you know this open air you know lights that are not going to be shielded but will be very visible from the beach. And so, you know, tell me how you're going to do that. Um, if you're going to have, you know, if you're going to make this open air, then as of right

609
02:48:02.319 --> 02:48:18.640
now, I'm considering those open air lights as exterior. Um, if if I'm getting direction to say that these are not exterior, um, you know, that's fine, but we it's empirically proven that those will cause disorientation >> have an impact. Yeah.

610
02:48:18.640 --> 02:48:36.399
Uh, do sea turtles hatch uh in twilight, dusk, or is it typically or anytime it's dark? >> I've heard that um and I apologize for not being real up to date on the biology, but what I've been told is that

611
02:48:36.399 --> 02:48:54.160
um whenever the sun goes down, sand gets cooler, and as that cools down, that's the stimulus for them to start boiling up. So, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's still a spectrum of of timing and you can have >> Yeah, I know. But you were talking earlier about probabilities and

612
02:48:54.160 --> 02:49:10.160
percentages, right? Nothing is >> right >> specific. So, we're looking to try and minimize the potential impact in >> right, >> you know, if we've got hours of operation till 10 p.m. or something like that, then you've got from 10 right through the

613
02:49:10.160 --> 02:49:26.479
next morning, >> right? we've just taken a large percentage away from potential impact. So, I'm going back to how do we make it work for businesses that doesn't

614
02:49:26.479 --> 02:49:43.120
put undue burden on them but does allow for dark skies at night um but allows them to operate properly during the day. You know, that's the balance that I'm thinking of. And when you start talking about hours of

615
02:49:43.120 --> 02:49:58.160
operation and perhaps you've mentioned some things where at a certain time these TVs go off or at a certain time these things happen. Whether that people are in compliance or not, that's a different issue. It's

616
02:49:58.160 --> 02:50:13.520
giving people some flexibility. And I think to the mayor's point about some of the technology that we have, including simple timers, including um variable bulbs that you can turn up and down, whatever you want. I mean,

617
02:50:13.520 --> 02:50:29.120
they seem like as opposed to fully mandating the exact type of light that you have to use and etc, etc., it's the impact of the light that we're trying to manage.

618
02:50:29.120 --> 02:50:45.439
I I think it's >> Yeah. You know, and I I I guess these are all good discussions, but the biggest biggest complaint I get when it comes to lighting is how it holds up the entire process because it has to be reviewed environmentally just like it does for flood plane, right? Building

619
02:50:45.439 --> 02:51:01.680
code, all that kind of stuff. And people can't get started on a project. And I don't know if this is a procedural thing or if it's a policy thing that we can attack, but what the light is going to look like has nothing to do with how the foundation is going to be built. >> And we've made exceptions for that before. Allow them to start at

620
02:51:01.680 --> 02:51:18.240
>> making an extension because you're not going to be able to move in or use your building until you meet the requirements for environmental review. Right. >> And we've done TCOs. >> Right. But but my point is is if if I have a project >> that has been back and forth three, four, five times with environmental review, again, you're only one person.

621
02:51:18.240 --> 02:51:34.479
And you can only get to so many projects at a time, right? Every time it gets rejected, it goes back to the bottom of the pile and it starts all over again, right? Then they submit this. Well, usually then it gets submitted and something else isn't right. Then it gets sent back. All of that could be going on while they're moving forward with a

622
02:51:34.479 --> 02:51:51.040
project. Like they you could still build a building. You can still do foundations. You can still put a roof on it. You still put windows in it. You can still sheetrock it. You can do electrical. You can do all of that without having to know which specific light is going to be in this hole where this electrical wire is going to be. >> We have absolutely allowed for that

623
02:51:51.040 --> 02:52:05.840
before. >> But is there a way to do that going forward until we work all work all through this? I mean, >> talk to me and we I discuss it with Frankie and we we we decide on how you know how we feel and what and we condition that you know you can start but you know you're not going to get a

624
02:52:05.840 --> 02:52:22.000
CO. We make it explicit. You're not going to get a CO until we have an approved lighting plan that reflects the asbuilt. Um, so they're at risk >> without a doubt. Without a doubt. >> So, and we have allowed that. >> Well, again, the subjectivity, right?

625
02:52:22.000 --> 02:52:38.560
It's if you and Frankie decide it's okay to go forward. Is there a policy that we can put in place to allow? Maybe it's commercial >> or or you know, these houses aren't being built overnight. So, it takes time to be able to, but a lot of people aren't going to are start putting their resources out and scheduling concrete

626
02:52:38.560 --> 02:52:55.120
trucks and doing all that because they don't know when a final environmental review for lighting is going to be done. What I'm asking is there, and maybe this is a Nancy question. I don't know if there's a if there's policies or procedures that we could put in place to allow someone on a bigger development that's going to take two years to build

627
02:52:55.120 --> 02:53:11.120
or 18 months to start a project. I know we did it with the county, right? They're trying They're trying to get the park open, but it was being held up with lighting review. Well, we made an exception to allow them. When can we make the exception a rule that you're not once you get to a certain point you

628
02:53:11.120 --> 02:53:27.200
have to meet environmental re requirements, whatever those are? >> Or you took a chance and and you lost, right? I mean I again allowing the flexibility to someone that wants to invest in our community to be able to start the project because project costs keep going up

629
02:53:27.200 --> 02:53:42.720
>> and and the way we're approaching any commercial development. Let me just start there with commercial development. So if you have a large scale development we have initiated going back to council's recommendations two years ago having precon meetings with these people. So right from the get-go we're talking those steps. You're bringing us

630
02:53:42.720 --> 02:53:57.359
your renderings. You're bringing us your crude plans. At that point, we're sitting down with our planning team, our zoning team, and we also tie in our environmental team. So, you know, right from the get-go what you can get and what you can't get right from the start as you go through that process. If you

631
02:53:57.359 --> 02:54:12.640
go down the DO route, you you have a multiple uh disciplines working at the same time, whether it be zoning, flood, whatever. We're not holding you up just because one person is not getting an answer. We're holding you up because the whole project can't move without an

632
02:54:12.640 --> 02:54:28.880
answer. So, there is a difference. and lighting is not going to be that issue when we're talking environmental has not been my experience and the things that I've been looking up for people that what you just said has not been my experience and what I've what I've found >> and I could I could give you a list of places that I'm talking about but so it

633
02:54:28.880 --> 02:54:45.680
sounds good in theory but that's not what's happening at least it wasn't it was what you were saying was happening for a while but now it seems like it's going back to the old ways of where you submit something we're rejecting it for this you submit now I'm rejecting it for this it's Not it it seems at least in

634
02:54:45.680 --> 02:55:00.640
what I've witnessed or what I've heard from people is the full review isn't happening and sending it out as a package. We seem to have gotten away from that at least in the environmental realm. And again, this is not a reflection on Chad. It's just a reflection on one person has a lot of work to do in my opinion.

635
02:55:00.640 --> 02:55:17.439
>> So let me tie that into So Chad is not the only one that does environmental review. We're trying to rein that in and make him a key component in that. But our outside planning team is the one that does a lot of the large-scale review, the initial review on these projects. So when they get a key element

636
02:55:17.439 --> 02:55:34.080
out of that project that doesn't match for the environmental review, I'll use the the county park system for an example, Lindhal Park. When they originally talked to us, we had our pre-con meeting uh um with their team, their project manager. This is what we wanted to do. This is what we're proposing to do. This is the the

637
02:55:34.080 --> 02:55:48.640
construction company that we have on board. Well, then all the subs start getting in, the architects, the landscape architects, the lighting um subcontractors, and one by one, they're laying they're they're putting layers on the overall plan. So, you have a completed plan when you're done. Well,

638
02:55:48.640 --> 02:56:04.960
we went from 15 foot high lights in a parking lot down to Ballards, you know, and and it's just like to get there it they had to go back and forth, back and forth. We sent the letter saying, "We need you to follow this." they sent back

639
02:56:04.960 --> 02:56:21.040
this. So, it it takes some time on some projects to get to that point. I'm not defending what you're bringing up, the the issues or the people that you may know of having struggles, and please, by all means, let us know so we can correct that as we move through it. But some of these larger projects, um, we brought up

640
02:56:21.040 --> 02:56:37.600
the Salty Crab, for example. It's an awesome project. Can't wait to get there. Many of us have eaten there in the past. Can't wait to get the cheeseburger back, right? But when you're talking about having an open air area at top, even though it's under roof, trying to get the architect to

641
02:56:37.600 --> 02:56:53.920
understand, it's still exterior lighting. And and and we have this discussion. If we had a policy where we could extrapolate things out to put into our reviews, a lot of that would be taken care of, you know, and and I guess that's what we're looking at is is

642
02:56:53.920 --> 02:57:09.920
trying to revamp the policy so we can capture the little nuances and still try to find what what Chad has to do every day and and follow that line of being compliant or as close to compliance as we possibly can. We've come a long way in in a short period of time since I

643
02:57:09.920 --> 02:57:26.080
until now. We heard it in rentalscape. We're also hearing on the environmental side too. These houses are being built back. I'll try transition into the residential part. Um each month we probably are averaging close to three new homes being built on the island or applications to build a home on the

644
02:57:26.080 --> 02:57:43.439
island. Um at any given time that give us plenty of time as a review staff to grab that, give a really good thorough look over and and put a lot of those people on the path to construction. So we have the tools in in place. We have the people in place. The policy needs to

645
02:57:43.439 --> 02:57:59.920
be massaged a little bit to help uh not only staff but also on the other side the residents and the commercial people. But a lot of the struggle that we have in the back and forth is just we're asking for this and we keep on getting this. You know, there there's no account for that and it's a telephone game. Mr.

646
02:57:59.920 --> 02:58:15.040
Mayor, I can be telling you what staff is doing and you can be telling me what the complaintant is doing. In reality, it's it's not, you know. Um, >> no, I agree with you and I and I before I bring up an issue to Will, who then passes it on to you guys, I usually try

647
02:58:15.040 --> 02:58:31.279
to do my homework and look it up and verify what I'm hearing. And sometimes it's their fault, sometimes it's our fault, >> sometimes it's both faults. But, >> and Chad can tell you, I hate ping pong. I And that's what I call ping pong. I hate it going back and forth. Either damn it, get get the question answered

648
02:58:31.279 --> 02:58:48.000
for the person immediately or explain it in a way that they can understand it immediately. Sometime that can't be helped, right? It may take a couple times. >> And I totally, Frankie, I don't mean to cut you off, but I totally understand what you're saying. But I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying. What I'm saying is all that back and forth ping-pong can be happening while

649
02:58:48.000 --> 02:59:03.359
progress is still being made. That right now, we don't seem to have a definite path to have progress continue while the ping-pong is going on. And that's what I'm trying to get at. Is there a policy? Is there something that we can do as a council policy-wise to put something in

650
02:59:03.359 --> 02:59:20.399
place to give you the ability to say, "Go ahead and start. We don't want to hold you up. We know concrete's going up. We know gas prices are going up. We know all that stuff's happening, but at a certain point, we have to come to an agreement. This is you're going to have to do it this way because that's what our code tells us we have to do. And

651
02:59:20.399 --> 02:59:35.840
they they assume the risk now. Now, when they call and say to all of us and say, "They're holding me up because it's environmental and I can't get anybody to move because my garage doors are f, you know, don't meet code, but I can't get my DO because my garage doors haven't been approved." That's that's the stuff

652
02:59:35.840 --> 02:59:52.479
that I think we can control. And if they want to take the the chance as a developer or homeowner to move forward thinking that they're going to get one by the staff, then that's on them. No longer does it no longer is it a meal from from Dan or or council members to Will saying, "Hey, this is this is what

653
02:59:52.479 --> 03:00:09.359
I found. Why why is this taking so long to get approved?" >> And I I I do understand what you're saying. And a lot of this is on on me as far as the slowness and it it relates back to what we the town went through with FEMA. You know, we we discovered through the FEMA CAV process that yes,

654
03:00:09.359 --> 03:00:25.680
things were coming in getting approved and pushed back out. That didn't make it right. So, we are taking a closer look in a lot of different disciplines to make sure that we are doing everything right. Um that does slow up the process a little bit. Our outside planning team looking at projects basically dealing

655
03:00:25.680 --> 03:00:42.880
with larger projects. Um that takes time because there you do have a disconnect between a discipline looking at the zoning and the flood part of it versus the environmental part of it. Um and then waiting one person does not knowing what the other person is. We are making changes to that and trying to get a

656
03:00:42.880 --> 03:00:59.120
little bit more fluid dynamic moving into that. We're taking more control here with uh Jason Smallley for example uh driving a lot of those projects to make sure that we're in the loop and we can express that they get done quicker. So >> yeah, I mean, we've certainly unscrambled a lot of eggs here today and

657
03:00:59.120 --> 03:01:16.479
and but I think there's enough direction hopefully to entice some conversations to see if there's something we can do better to help alleviate what Chad needs, what staff needs, and what our residents and builders need. And hopefully there's been enough discussion to to be able to kick another can down

658
03:01:16.479 --> 03:01:34.080
the road. on a on a side note, we have members from the community who did do everything right from the get-go um and tried to do everything right from the get-go and uh his example of trying to to think forward and getting his project moving. Um but again, that kind of code

659
03:01:34.080 --> 03:01:50.080
and in absence of direction is bogging down even that effort uh to to to be proactive. So, um, yes, anything that we can do or you can do will help us greatly. >> Scott, you got anything to add?

660
03:01:50.080 --> 03:02:06.640
>> I So, I have a question about the compliance aspect. It it seems that Chad, and this is more directed to you. It It just seems that you're shooting a shotgun everywhere. I mean, it's it's like you're running around the entire

661
03:02:06.640 --> 03:02:22.160
island. Would would it be more prudent to focus on the beach first or a section of the beach to get that dark and then work your way down because it seems to me you're all over the place. >> Um, so a couple things happening this

662
03:02:22.160 --> 03:02:38.000
year. We had our beach reourishment and we have a permit required condition to do a beachwide survey twice this season. We did it in the beginning of the season, then we're following it up. Um, just did the entire beach last night. Um, market improvement, by the way. I

663
03:02:38.000 --> 03:02:54.000
mean, it's amazing all the compliance. Uh, in my opinion, as far as amber lighting goes, it's never been better, but you always have those, you know, the one-offs here and the one-offs there that cause a disorientation, and that's all it takes. Unfortunately, it's like, you know, you you can have 99% success,

664
03:02:54.000 --> 03:03:10.880
and that 1% is what causes those sea turtles to go the wrong way. So, um, that as far as it being beachwide, we we had to do that with our permit mandated, uh, uh, >> requirements. >> That's fine. But can now that that's over, can you start at the south end or

665
03:03:10.880 --> 03:03:27.359
wherever? I I know I know Turtle Time has a a location where it's >> right. So, right now, >> relocating maybe start and go each wave where the relocation area is. As we get later in the season, we kind of focus more like where the nests are and where they're going to be hatching soon and

666
03:03:27.359 --> 03:03:43.200
and look at that. And you know, we have a lot of relocations from our sand project that are right here on the, you know, 5800 5900 block. Um, so we do focus on those lights a lot right there because there are there's a concentration of nests right there. Um,

667
03:03:43.200 --> 03:03:59.520
and then as you know, as nests are hatching, you know, Eve and Cindy are giving me heads up. Hey, these are these these establishments are issues. They're going to be issues. and I see those as well and definitely focus on those to your point. >> Okay. So, you're already doing that. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. That's good. >> I mean, if if there's, you know, if

668
03:03:59.520 --> 03:04:15.920
there's no nest on the 8,000 block, number one, those guys, I mean, they've done a great job with their lighting and coming into compliance. So, there's uh not uh a whole lot of issues over there anyway. But if there's no nest over there, uh uh you know, I don't even like going over there because it's like uh

669
03:04:15.920 --> 03:04:31.520
you know, you don't know when you're going to get dive bombed by all the the black skimmers and the turns that are nesting over there >> with that hair. I see why. >> But yes, we are, you know, we do try and be try and be pragmatic and and get after um the areas that are going to

670
03:04:31.520 --> 03:04:46.800
make more of a difference and try and prevent those disorientations. >> How many disorientations have we had this year so far? We are at 13 out of 32 nests. So, it's not good. >> We got a call this morning, Chad, and it's up to 15. >> 15. Yeah. So, 15 out of 32.

671
03:04:46.800 --> 03:05:01.760
>> Last night. Yeah. >> 15 out. >> We had two. We had two just last night, and I was out all last night. So, you know, one is likely due to TVs that's at a bar. Um, and the other one is a uh a window that may be left open. And then

672
03:05:01.760 --> 03:05:18.080
also, um, they seem to, uh, I'm going to have to, uh, you know, something some lights are reflecting off of Ocean Harbor that are causing them to just keep on going that way is is the theory. So, I'm going to try and, um, uh, play detective on that one.

673
03:05:18.080 --> 03:05:33.600
>> Okay. All right. Thank you. >> Y, >> is there a way you can email your presentation to us? >> Uh, yeah. Yeah, Amy, we have it in the presentations and she can uh, disseminate it. >> Yeah. Thank you. That's all I have, Tam. >> That's okay. Yeah. Um, I think I first became aware of this about four years

674
03:05:33.600 --> 03:05:50.240
ago when I first met Chad when I was on our condo board trying to bring our condo into compliance. Uh, I think if I recall correctly, you brought up the Sea Turtle Conservancy. Um, they do grant-f funded retrofits and I know uh the lighting can get expensive. So, I think

675
03:05:50.240 --> 03:06:08.080
I'd like us to at least uh maybe put out some way or on the website or something um how it works with a sea turtle conservancy. They'll they'll come out, they'll do an initial survey, they'll do a lighting design, they'll do installation, a post survey, and they

676
03:06:08.080 --> 03:06:24.800
again help with funding. Um, I'm not sure if if it would help on the bay side as much. I think it's more on the the beach side, but I think that might be an avenue I'd like to see us at least promote or help. Um, >> I think we just got another sign up this past month um over at Ksterero Shops.

677
03:06:24.800 --> 03:06:41.279
are going to um I think maybe take advantage of the sea turtle conservancy over there and uh dozens of properties have taken advantage of that and we can I I continue to promote it and we we can get it up and writing on the website as well. >> Yeah, I know because I saw on social media uh one of our residents talked

678
03:06:41.279 --> 03:06:56.080
about they after rebuilding their house they just didn't have any money to be able to do it properly and uh if this is an avenue for them I think that's worth promoting. So thank you. >> You're welcome. Absolutely. Thanks, Chad.

679
03:06:56.080 --> 03:07:14.800
>> Welcome. Anytime. >> Uh, agenda management. Councelor King, anything new you would like to add to that? >> Nothing for me. >> Scott, are you are you sure that you've only got a couple left?

680
03:07:14.800 --> 03:07:30.560
Positive. >> You got more than a couple. >> He's trying to figure out the door. >> No, no. I'm think >> did I miss public? >> There's no public comment during during M& >> Okay. >> We're we're available to talk to you afterwards if you'd like or if you need

681
03:07:30.560 --> 03:07:47.600
to talk to staff afterwards. >> Okay. Wonderful. Thank you. >> No, I'm I'm actually good. I think we got a lot of stuff going on and >> yeah, let's stay focused. >> We management. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, I just wanted to bring up that um on the May 7th MNP meeting um and the

682
03:07:47.600 --> 03:08:03.120
May 4th council meeting, I had brought up the uh interest in doing a public comment or I'm sorry, public benefit discussion with the LPA >> and would like to bring that back up to get that on the schedule.

683
03:08:03.120 --> 03:08:19.840
>> I see it's on here. It just hasn't got a specific date yet. >> Oh, okay. Is that new? I didn't see it. Perfect. Yeah, it's uh >> it's kind of >> it's down regular meeting in September, but there's going to be a weekl long meeting. >> I I think councelor link did I remember

684
03:08:19.840 --> 03:08:37.520
you asked about a combined LPA town council meeting to discuss >> that was my preference and I was right as your preference. So >> it's on agenda management. >> Does it make sense? >> It is there. I see it now. >> Does it make sense to have I'm just asking. Does it make sense to have that meeting before or after the election

685
03:08:37.520 --> 03:08:53.840
>> or does it matter? budget. >> Oh, >> I don't know. Before budget >> or before or after budget, right? >> What's that? >> Or before or after budget? Well, probably after. >> Oh, after. I mean, there's too many things on everyone's plate. Yeah. >> You don't have an M&P meeting in September. Correct.

686
03:08:53.840 --> 03:09:10.319
>> We don't. So, right now it's on the uh agenda management as a second regular meeting in September, which probably is not a reality. >> Yeah, probably be better for the October. >> I think October would be more realistic. Would be more Have you been? >> Yeah. What are you thinking, Mayor?

687
03:09:10.319 --> 03:09:26.560
>> No, I'm just I mean I'm just I'm having flashbacks to 2017 when when uh people on the island lost their mind about a discussion over the compensation of the then town manager that locked in the

688
03:09:26.560 --> 03:09:43.120
incoming council to five or six years as the outgoing council members. So, the outgoing council members made a decision. >> Ah, I see what you're saying. that locked in the incoming council >> that couldn't do anything pretty much for 5 years. So, I'm it just gives me

689
03:09:43.120 --> 03:09:59.840
flashbacks and it makes me wonder if having a discussion in October >> um if it's a discussion that that's fine, but if it's an actual decision making, >> does it make sense to wait until >> whatever the new council shakes out? >> I think December is fine. It's just important to the public and I think it

690
03:09:59.840 --> 03:10:15.600
should >> it'll be in Hawaii. >> No, I think it's extremely important to the customer. So I I don't want it to go too long, but I can understand we should have the body that will most likely have to, you know, work it out be the body that uh >> I'm just wondering if you have the discussion and then you give direction

691
03:10:15.600 --> 03:10:32.720
to staff. It's a whole story another, you know, there's three seats open, right? So it's potential that >> the majority of council could change, you know, not saying it will. I'm just >> Thank you. That's what experience on the uh Vegas helps. Thanks. >> Yep.

692
03:10:32.720 --> 03:10:46.560
>> Anything else? >> Thank you. No, thank you. >> John, >> I'm fine. Thank you. >> I don't have anything else either. There's nothing else. >> Move to adjourn. >> We are ajourn. Oh, we public comment. Any objection? All right. We adjourned

693
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at 12:09.