##VIDEO ID:BByji5hWC10## e e e e e e e e e okay good morning today is Thursday November 7th 20 absolutely go ahead Mr um as I represent the town on the Le County Metropolitan planning organization um there was a recent Pres presentation about the bir just head back there just head back there yeah so for those who aren't here I'm 6' one for those that are here I I've just answered your first question how tall is she right well it's better than having to lay down in the front like the rest of us it is better it is better yes so um I am a founder of friends of Bert and um I'm here to tell you a little bit about the rail to Trail project that um actually what I get excited about too and I think you will be is how those efforts from Fort Meers Beach to Bonita Beach come together and I've got some maps to show you about that so it really becomes exciting when you think about not only Bert but I'm going to I I get most excited about that of course but what we can do in Lee County to really have a system of trails that would not only H have give us the beautiful beaches that we have but also a system of trails that could be another reason that tourists come another reason that we transform the economy so um friends of Bert is a 501c3 we're all volunteer um I lead a board that is very active we um in Lee County have 26 HOAs that have indorsed us we're at 3500 members we have a big somebody was talking about a bike ride uh we have a big bike ride coming up um out of Estero on the November 17th the ride for Bert so that's a big fundraiser for us um so what do we do and I'll just go through this quickly bike ped safety we need that in Lee County we're the probably the worst County in Florida which is the worst state in the United States for bike ped safety and so that's number one for for us I'm a cyclist but I don't tend to go out on the roads very much anymore because it's dangerous and so having these types of things that you guys are working on along um a sterile Road and then what we're working on are really going to help that I'm going to show a quick video that kind of gives you an opportunity to Envision what we're talking about for most of you it doesn't take a lot for most people it does take a lot to understand how transformational that a beautiful linear Park and trail anybody else see those around the country you bet you bet I'm from originally from the West Coast then to North Carolina and then we vacation in in the summer in Michigan we don't have to go on the road at all in all of those places in order to walk Etc so um and my friend Natalie white whom you may know already as an architect um is helping us to understand how to help people visualize what this will be but right now I'm just going to show this quick video Let's see if I'm okay can I click on that image will that allow me to click looks like looks like it's going oh it's going okay perfect and then all right you need we need sound also this guy okay I'll I'll act it out how about that he's telling you what this is really gonna be like can tell you is that Rail to Trails are in can tell you is that Rail to Trails are in incredibly important in that in a rail to Trail project you don't you don't have a lot of driveways you don't have um those types of entries and so it ends up being safer and more transformational safer and more transformational you guys want to see it you want to see the video railro running from road down past Beach Road like so much of the country is doing is turning abandoned railroads linear Parks the park and just be safe think of it as a 15m Long Park that doubles is a 15m long Highway made for only foot and bike traffic the state will rip up the rails clean up the whole 130t wide area put down an asphalt Trail and then the private sector in the community is along the path and get involved to beautify for years to come so what we have is kind of like a 15 M wi SL would you like to look at it that way I like to look at it that way that is fantastic way to look at it a business takes ownership of it a individual you'll be able to travel the trail to downtowns the wall Parks schools neighborhoods different communities onil already ACC 7,000 will be able to have a 10minute walk to this new Trail within a mile of trail you can expect your home to worth at least seven maybe more like 20% more you imagine put on Cofe a little supporters are saying things like we'd like to build a park we'd like to build an access point bringing this year is going to provide so much more safety there are 11 schools 10,000 students that will be within a mile able to safely get to school won have visitors that only come for the beaches they'll come for this as well repeatedly Across the Nation results of similar rail trial Rec construction initiatives have been astounding residents are already contemplating ways to enhance their segment to enhance the appeal of their localities they're putting forth ideas for Gardens amenities architectural elements Bridges Landscapes small Parks access points and a whole bunch of other imaginative projects could you imagine how many people can't be on this in a day oh gosh I hope someone's there with a little all right see wasn't that worth it it was let's see now I want to click to the next slide isn't could I click to the next one all right so you heard a lot in the video I'll just pull a few things out um it's 14.9 miles now you have four jurisdictions that um are part of this rail to Trail so it starts in CER County goes into Bonita Springs then AO and then in unincorporated Le County so you've got a lot of people to coordinate with all are excited about it as well as the state of of uh Florida is very excited about it as well it's um under contract hasn't been purchased yet so it's 81 million to purchase that so we are putting together a lot of different types of funding in order to do that in order to um procure that and that is due by the contract says uh March of 2026 so that contract is with seminal Gulf rail line with a subcontract I understand with CSX who um originally owned it and so that's what um it has been appraised at so a lot of different sources there's um the two cities have um have already pledged 5 million per we're working with State funding we should be part of have you heard of suntrails I know they're the ones building the um building it U from Bonita Beach I'm sorry from Fort Meers Beach on is a is the dollars at the state level um within fdot for suntrails um County funding in state Appropriations and then we've already applied for an atip Grant the raise Grant is coming up um and other grants so that's kind of the funding sources some other uh interesting funding sources even in the last week have have come forward you already know the health benefits and um the people that are so close um I I get excited about a few other things the 11 schools that are within a mile um just I I think about right outside of my I've got two schools right outside of our entrance that the the the uh line is so long of the um people trying to drop their kids off I'd love to be able to help them with uh with a way to get there on a bike or walk um so economic benefits we've we've already conducted studies around the potential economic benefits Etc and storm resiliency so there's a lot of Ben benefits um to a ra to Trail project like this it's part of the Florida Gulf Coast Trail and somebody talked about Charles Charles Hines that they were working was that you John said uh we had worked with him in the past or he was a commissioner in Sarasota County and now he's with trust Republic land with trust Republic land yeah so he is in charge of pulling together what we call the Florida Gulf Coast Trail for which you guys will be part of it and Bert would be part of that does this is that what this is that goes up to like Tarpon Springs I've been up there and saw the same type of trail that goes all the way up and springs that same sure yes yeah yes yeah so Charles Hines was County Commissioner with Sarasota County when the Legacy Trail was put in and so that's from Sarasota to Venice and then they've got some more um going with North Northport Etc so that's been transformational for Sarasota County this is a this is a um map if you will of here you are Fort Meers Beach here's the Bert segment and when you look at does this have a light on it ah it does it doesn't show up oh but it doesn't show so you'll see that where the arrows are you uh so you'll see where the arrows are uh with Fort Meers Beach and Bert but what as we were my husband and I were putting this map together we thought it was pretty cool to think about um should we should we be able to and I always kind of say in my lifetime if we're able to get all this done there's a 38 mile Loop that would be burnt up to um John yarboro across and then over to Fort Meers Beach and down that's a 38 mile Loop wouldn't that just be amazing and the way that we could just like panella's Trail just like like others in the State uh Winter Gardens and and that really create something very special are you going to are you going to touch on the uh love what I'm hearing by the way but but are you going to touch on the Lee County just appropriated some money to get folks on bikes from the south tip of Fort Meers Beach to the beginning of Bert Trail do you have any information on that this morning we have we've not been really brief by the county it's great news yeah but obviously we we're building a new bridge on the south end of our Island that's going to have incredible sidewalks to allow bikes to get over the bridge in a much more convenient way and then from there on in the County's appropriated funds for Trails do you do you know much about that P I read about it probably in the in the public um domain I did call the mo to get more information and they said well what you have from the from Naples Daily News is what they have it's it's State dollars that will put in a 12 and a 12 foot um protected bike lane I call it a bike lane I should call it a multi-use path because it's not just bikes right but um so and it would be protected and it would be separated from traffic and it would go from each time they put in or or or um improve a um Bridge along that route they will add that 12 foot um multi-use Trail but because they own the land already either the state or the county already owns the land the state is putting in the 12 foot U multi-use path between Fort Meers Beach and Bonita Beach it'll take a while to get to Bert because there's that the land acquisition will be difficult but each time they do a bridge like Hickory and and those bridges they'll be able to add that to it does that answer your question that's very helpful thank you okay yeah and so that's a question even at the m level um to but that's I called Ron theoy and and got that so um so that's kind of exciting you know when you're when you're running a 501c3 and this is what I do all day every day as a retired volunteer I get excited about this stuff it's like that's another win that's another win so what happens next is is really the um we have to complete the purchase in 20 26 and as part of the purchase funding there will be funding for pd&e as part of that purchase price so that can start right away and then get into Trail design and construction that's and this is specific to Bert because we have to get the ride of way we have to own the ride of way in other places we don't have that step so that's my dog and pony and I wanted to be able to reach out and say we've got a big organization we have lots of volunteers how can we work together and what questions do you have John what do you want from us what I would like you to consider and may um is we've had different cities um endorse the idea endorse the project and so fort city of Fort Meyers earlier this year invited me in to give a presentation and then they voted to endorse I know this is not you're not voting today but that would be what I would like to see and that just helps us with our um it's has really helped us especially with the state funding just curious the start of the Bert Trail that's on Bonita Beach Road is that correct is it it's actually south of that it's actually um Wiggins in CER County so it goes a mile and a half into C County it connects with Veterans Parkway and then we'll go further south because the project that's on um that's away from it's along Livingston um it'll go right into Naples and so it'll very quickly give us um it'll be part of that trail along Livingston or connected to it yeah when they have a new Trail okay um on Livingston yes it will be yeah Veterans Parkway so for CER County it's important for them to get that because they they want to be able to build Veterans Parkway 241 Veterans Parkway is a beautiful Parkway there's a huge high school there and um so this would connect to the trails that are along Veterans Parkway and then to Livingston and down into na so when it where it crosses Bonita Beach Road what where is that it is um it's near Spanish Wells okay right you you remember when you go across the the rail line yeah it'll cross Bonita Beach Road yes thank you yeah thank you of course of course well having spent 37 winters of my discontent in Minnesota um the state with the most most bike everywhere yeah it's throughout the state and we lived in Minneapolis you know Twin Cities and you had bike trails that went all the way through through connecting Minneapolis St Paul downtown I mean it was fabulous so I cannot believe that Florida is the last in line to do this but I just think it would be fantastic I would endorse it in a minute okay thanks for that yeah um I think that what's occurred I sit on a a state board as well for um because I just wasn't busy enough that for for uh Florida Greenways and trails foundation and they really got this going with Senator pasido so we're really fortunate that she is helping us down here um I think that what she's also supporting which is fantastic is something called call your to pulk so just think you get on you come out here you get on Bert and then you get to connect to another 200 mile card of Hulk that's going to happen fast somehow when you've got but the past president of the Senate and the um next president of the Senate that are Trails enthusiasts it's so exciting to see what they're able to do by using uh what's called the suntrails dollars and other um projects that that the Senate has put in place along with the governor for um for Trails so it's we're they're finishing trails in North Florida Coast to Coast Trail they're finishing that some of those dollars will begin to flow down here thanks Karen con Safford yeah I grew up in Wisconsin and and we were doing this 40 years ago you know turning old railroad lines into into bike pass and I I fully support you guys and whatever we can do to help you thank you yeah I I agree I'd encourage supporting this 100% you know the faster Southwest Florida is growing the less land's going to become available to do it as we're seeing now and we're in a position I think unfortunately that we're in the position that we have ability to be able to try to accumulate some right ways or some land to be able to make this a reality so you'd have my endorsement 100% thanks Dan I think we can get do we need a letter from us or do you what would you need from us to be we have to go IDE do a vote or just give direction or would we need a resolution I think um some direction and then um we can bring it back on Monday I or on the 18th if you want it do you have a deadline yeah okay so we'll just put it in your packet and you can approve it okay yeah so if you I should have said yes I should have said well I think all of that helps us we're um but but just just to be clear what's what's most helpful to you is it is it the letter or resolution what's most helpful to your cause or both was I would recommend a resolution because it's a much more formalized um that's what that's what fort uh that was that's what the city of Fort Meers did yes was a resolution and um truthfully I think that um because of what you guys have have had to work through it it means a lot to me that you all understand this and um and anything that you could do to influence our County Commissioners as well um to maybe more vocally get on board I think each one of them that I talked to were like Yay but we need them to participate as one of the four jurisdictions and that's what's been difficult for us and I think rightfully so because they've been busy with storms I mean that just one storm after another and and that ability to really focus on something different than the storms has been difficult but I it has been tough for us to get their consensus well I think we can help with that I don't know if we can move the needle a lot but we certainly can I think the more support you get from the municipalities the more let them know that we're all in this together yes thank you mayor may I make a confession and a disclosure I actually live um very close to the coasta coast in Claremont and um some of our other clients because we represent a number of cities um they have all entered into a program called the trail town I don't know if you're familiar with that but that's another huge benefit to a local government that does have a trail that goes through it not only do you have your residential uses for schools as as she's pointed out but the restaurants the overnight accommodations but then there's the marketing component as being designated as a trail town so that's about my extent of knowledge of it but I don't know if you wanted to elaborate well informed about the trail town program the State of Florida has with the visitors bureau and so um is that the one that allows you to get an accredited thing saying that you are a bike friendly Community I was reading about that last year also here but wait there's more Dan I'm sorry can't wait no Dan works perfect um sorry what Nancy's talking about is really something that's we probably don't see inside of Florida but it's all the marketing that goes to Germany that goes to everywhere in the world that's saying Southwest Florida Southwest Florida is the way place to be so if you were lived in dun Eden you lived in uh Winter Park lived in Claremont lived in um these other places there are right now 11 Florida Trail towns and you get a tremendous amount of marketing that comes from the state and in fact at the last um at the last State legislative session they actually earmarked even more dollars for trail Town marketing so it's a it's a pretty remarkable thing Fort Meers Beach would be in a perfect situation for that Bonita be Bonita Springs is like they could do it now because of the water because the W the blueways they could do it now but with that they will Estero um you know there's no there's no competition here it's a coop operation and I think you saw it up on the coast to coast is you can have a number of Trail towns um that are designated Trail towns I'm going to go to uh something in February to designate Venice Florida as a trail Town that'll be the next one so thank you for bringing that up Mr Mayor we are working towards that end goal right now with the R2 P2 project uh and with one of uh a proponent developer um in the town uh to connecting the South Town where you we the south side of town where we do have the bike Lanes accessible on a sterile Boulevard when you get up to Mid Island at chokes down and because of the bus lanes and whatnot so we've uh developed a uh a bike a possible path down shellmound and through the back part of town to connect over to here at least to get you to um the hotel district and the downtown district um it doesn't really show much now because of the construction going on uh by the bridge but uh we're in the process of developing these plans along with our partners at FEMA um and the federal government that came through after Ian um and uh so that's already in the process of being developed and could show some good results in the possibly two years so that would get you to that accreditation have you seen the that I think it was a 2017 Mo study that was done just specifically for Fort Meers Beach no that lays out the plans that before I lived here oh it lays out the plans of what a future path would look like okay through so a lot of work has already been done and I know it's Rel the staff can get it to I'm sure they they have it but it it shows a lot of ideas as to what Frankie was talking about on how to get around some of these rightaway issues to be able to put a path through Port Mar's Beach so if it's beneficial to yeah to you in any way I would love to anything I can do and I any way I can help I'm happy to do that we'll get that information to you thank Natalie did you want to add anything forget hello again I to Mo this um Natalie white with shinkle schs architecture the sociate principal and I lead our Southwest Florida office I have seen you guys in another capacity um I have been working with um with Deb on Bert um I heard about the project I I'm a resident in Bonita Springs so it's a very uh interesting project but it to to us the way we talk about it it is from it's called Bert from Bonita to AO and connects it's the missing link that connects Fort Meers to Collier it really is a Southwest Florida project because we really do have the opportunity if it's done right to make this a destination like a lot of cities so one of the big examples is a Highline in New York City which is a very Urban setting um they took a trail and it went right through the city and it really just changed that entire linear I mean it it every everything that was touching that trail like they all the buildings had to really adjust to the new Trail because that was the new highway so the opportunity in this portion of the trail is very different from other parts of Southwest Florida because it intersects so many downtown areas we're crossing the Estero River we're crossing the Imperial River downtown Fort Myers right in in um Old 41 so there is just so much opportunity it's not just a bike trail um so when it hits these nodes I call them um in the downtown we have an opportunity to make you know really re think everything that's around it right so these buildings these developers a lot of the spaces a lot of the lots that are on these trails are now becoming important Lots right because you'll have a facade you'll have the entry from the road but now you have to really think about how are you entering from the linear Trail so Atlanta has the green belt which is also very similar um it's a little bit more like what we're trying to do New York is too Urban right there's just it's a city um where you could ride your bike from Brewery to brewery right so you can be downtown B to Springs and you know the crossings on this Trail if you really look at it it's it's pretty incredible you have Coconut Point uh you have herts the headquarters you have Lee County um Lee Lee Lee Health there it takes you downtown so there's just so much opportunity and if we do it right it could become a destination like some of these big trails that you hear about around the country and that's what we really want to bring right people to Southwest Florida also the impact for residents and how you know what Deb was saying so that's what gets me excited excited as an architect about the opportunity that we could make it more than just a paved concrete that connects so um there are Parts where it does hit residential where we have to consider safety and privacy and so it it'll change along the trail but the biggest thing is just thinking about it as a Southwest Florida Trail so that's really all I have to add perfect thank you thank you well you definitely have our support so thank you let us know how we can help in the future I'll do the resolution okay thanks great job thanks for coming thank you next is our discussion on public benefits this is a summary of the LPA discussion of public benefits who's going to start us out uh you look hesitant well I it really wasn't my item however um I think that what staff wanted to walk away with um was to convey the message from the uh local planning agency that they do want to have a joint meeting um with the Town Council to discuss this concept um the information that is in your packet um is basically a summary that Judith put together I think it's pretty comprehensive of what was discussed uh recently at the local planning agency um and again to further develop it um I believe the next item on the agenda is about regarding the um procedural rules for these develop velopment agreements as we start to as more projects are coming up uh for review uh the idea there that um that we would have uh some type of reference to special benefits or public benefits um the LPA did draw a distinction between those and tried to set up some guidelines um of how to to achieve that there is some prior information from staff when this item first came before you um that shows what some of the other uh municipalities have have done and I think Jason did you want to elaborate further on that I think that um that's pretty much what I know about this issue yeah so the the packet is is fairly comprehensive um I think St so so so St just wants to reiterate that uh what LPA had had suggested which is that they would like to have that discussion together uh I think the rubric that was brought up in LPA while perhaps not fully comprehensive and fully fleshed out yet is a good starting point for the discussion uh really LPA just kind of was looking for a way to get an idea of how Town Council will interpret the weight and value of these things fully knowing that coming up with some sort of you know set in stone point system is is difficult and perhaps not the way to go but they really just wanted to jump start this idea of what the priorities are and uh see those impacted in the public benefits that are offered okay pleas mayor just a couple thoughts uh number one I want to thank the LPA it was a great discussion I watched the whole thing and I thought want to thank in particular Jim uh Dunlap and Jim Bone I thought it was a great uh beginning uh obviously the council's talked about this uh at length uh I agree that the formulaic uh Dynamic of this is potentially problematic but I I think it's an excellent idea for us to at least uh make public our priorities uh in terms of public benefit to potential developers so they have a sense of what we're looking for in a more formal uh uh uh uh format um I had just I I had read through the documents and I and if I if I I missed it in here somewhere I I apologize but I don't think I did um I just want to add a few things Jason I don't know if Judith is here but if we could just add a couple categories for discussion will we meet jointly which I hope we do um that I did not see in the documents I think we need to have a category and and again this is challenging and we saw this uh at one of our earlier developments we had this discussion and it's challenging as to how you do it but if a developer was to come forth boldly and and lead with one of these things I think it could be helpful one of the categories that I would like to add is is essential services and this gets back to the concept of of facilitating some sort of an entity uh that could provide uh uh uh script writing capabilities whether it be a doc whether it be a physical uh a nurse practitioner uh uh any sort of a dynamic where we could have e mer care typee uh uh facility uh so we could just have some kind of basic Medical Services here on the island I think that would be a tremendous public benefit and I would also throw dentists in there as well as well as physical therapist I think those are all entities on this that were really we had on the island and were extremely beneficial and just in terms of basic blocking and tackling quality of life Dynamics and again how that's done is something we'll we'll talk I think better to discuss jointly with the LPA but I just want to make sure those are added then there's sort of the semi-essential services for lack of a better term uh you know a place where you can get your haircut uh a bank uh florist uh a vet maybe or you know something that again these are things that would be great uh and then and then and some of this is geographical for example a hotel there are no hotels on the south end of the island and people would say oh there's lots on the North End well that's great and I love our North End hotels but during season people on the south end can't get to the North End and and we need a hotel on the south end there's a lot of folks with two-bedroom condos who you know friends and family come to town and short notice and they need a hotel that you don't have to drive off Island to get or or contribute to the traffic challenges of going north and and and and that's that's that's an issue as well and I think too uh and some of this is geographic in nature we we talk about restrooms on the beach we talk about uh uh drinking Fountain uh uh again more challenges on the south end which is quite Barren right now and I think one other category I'd like to add is uh is early entrance I think those folks those developers who take risks and are the first to come to the island and present a plan that that encompasses many of these public benefits that we that that the LPA talked about and that which I just talked about I think there's value to that and I think uh again obviously the the the first medical office is a lot more important than the than the seventh medical office and the first dentist is a lot more important than the fourth dentist and I think that's hold true holds true for restaurants as well and and other type of essential and non-essential services so uh again a Herculean task I I commend the LPA for trying to more more formalize it and I support those efforts and I I do look forward to a joint meeting thank you coner Zord any thoughts yeah the one thing and Jason and I had a conversation a couple weeks ago about if you do this formulaic you know two points for this three points for that The Challenge on our beach is that there has to be a Delta based on location or future land use and to come up with that Delta that's fair to whether it's on the North End South End Mid Island on the beach off the beach that's going to be our challenge so I I'm okay with the formula way to do it you know awarding points for different things but there has to be a delta in there that that that multiplier so to speak um and we've that's a challenge to figure out but I again I applaud the LPA for let's for getting the ball rolling and I I absolutely would love to have a joint meeting with them Woodson so there were also excuse me there were also a couple other things mentioned that didn't that I don't see on the list um in that meeting one was the economic benefit I know um because I was in that meeting and Jim touched on that Jim Dunlap that um there has to be economic benefit overall to the entire Community for things um transportation what kind of um benefit to our either our transportation system additional transportation systems for the island and maying add additional Transportation when you get here what are the other opportunities like the Waterway taxis and that type of thing um and then one that I keep plugging away on all the time is our you know monetary investment in our Canal upkeep and waterways um that has been a huge Miss for us as a community uh we had no systematic way of keeping our canals dredged and that type of thing as as a result of it after Ian we missed FEA dollars on that because we did not have a program into place so I think that's something that has to be incorporated as we move forward um just given you know the the whole all of the storms that we're having and the sand that's coming in and it just keeps raising the water Heights everything else I mean there's something that we have to focus on so I would like to see those added as options do you as part of the waterways do you also uh consider that encompassing the uh moing field is that the is that a priority as well I would think so I think it's all all the water all the way around the island Canal Back Bay Beach exactly we've got a you know we got a part if they want to they want to play and they need to partner with us to Advocate clean clean water and and clean up the canals and all that have to be good good stewards okay excellent thank you councilor King I'm not sure I have anything else to add to that other than I look forward to the opportunity to work with the LPA on flushing these out yeah I I think you know looking through all this and watching the discussion the LPA had I think you guys were right on track as far as breaking down the special benefit public benefit I think packet page 10 and 11 really summarizes what was discussed at the PA if you have a chance to go look through it it it kind of breaks it in I I've never been a fan of the point system I think it's it's as Scott has said all all along a small development may not be able to provide what a larger development can so in a point system how does that put them at a disadvantage over they may not be able to achieve any of those points they need to be able to get the building that they need to make it work for them and for the community so that's why I've never been a big fan of the point system I for me I like to keep things General as far I think it's a good to have a base starting point to me a public benefit I think has been laid out perfectly in on page 10 is what's a benefit and what's an amenity I I think that makes a lot of sense I think the town should look at and I've talked with the town manager about this several times when we're talking about fairies does it make more sense for the town to operate it but these developments potentially offer us places to have a drop off as opposed to them managing it and they could pull it at any time or you you so something to look at down the road but does it make more sense kind of like we talked about the wagon thing does it make more sense for the town to operate the program somebody else operates it but the town manages it all through funding that comes from tourist development dollars or from parking or from sh it's paid for by the visitors versus being paid for by the residents to me that is a is a public benefit or we could also maybe leverage something from the Lee County Metropolitan planning organization they've looked into it in the past but if the town could get into a position where we could for just talking about traffic specifically and a water ferry that you know we can design it we could set it up and then you could have the participants as part of a public benefit being a drop off location does that make more sense I don't know it's a discussion we can have at the Joint meeting but um I kind of look at things I like the tiered system kind of thing you talked about I like it in concept you know I try to put everything in numbers because it seems to make more sense to me and you know if you go to a bank and a bank says your interest rate is 10% do this project but if you want to do this this and this and this and this add-on you're now going to be at 30% well somewhere in the middle there you got to decide what makes Financial sense right so how do we do that legally and I've talked with the attorneys about this how can we put something in place that what's important today may not be important tomorrow or the next day or 10 years from now by the time these projects are developed and to be able to have the flexibility to take that funding and move it to what is important at the time as Karen said so rightfully so canals are a big thing how can we get how can get seaw walls built that's an important thing that's an important bucket that people could environmentally all that stuff that they could be contributing to um you know a base starting point like you guys talked about vew Corridor is nice but is a vew corridor really a public benefit now if you make it a beach axis now it truly becomes a beach axis so is that a starting point so I think these are things that we're on the right path and if anybody hasn't had a chance to look at what Jim and in the LPA put together I think you really should take a look at it because I think it's a great starting point I think with the joint meeting we could really hammer down some things to give direction but I don't think that we have to totally say if you give us this you get that if you get this you give it it it puts a disadvantage to your Delta Point Scott that a small development doesn't have the same starting point that a big development could and it has to have that same Delta if you will that that is a a benefit to not just public now but public 10 20 years from now so whenever we can get it scheduled I'm on board with the The Joint meeting to yeah I I don't have any um problems with that I'll I'll coordinate with Andy as far as availability and and times um the other thing that had been asked um you know during the process yes we've had a project come through partially at this point um you know what is the town really really interested in and one uh resource that is still a work in progress is your strategic plan which kind of sets forth um what Direction you're going as far as your infrastructure and and what's important to the town um once and Andia you can comment on that um as far as once that's completed that's another resource of what you could look to as possibly having a special benefit or a public benefit that was just some feedback that I received when do you want to try to get this scheduled I think the sooner the better I I think you know you strike why iron's hot and we'll get I'll get with um Amy and we'll send out some dates to both groups uh today and see when we can get it done and see if we can't get it set possibly even as early as next week if possible it's a short week because of Veterans Day but we'll look at the calendar everybody okay with that certainly all right anything else on this before we move on to the next item no okay we'll hash everything out in that meeting there you go I keep looking at you because you're the only Opa member here I speak for theall there you go oh there you go um do you want me to read this in record or does it not me to be it doesn't um so if if you like May mayor I can go ahead and introduce the item please do okay so what you have in front in your packet is um a resolution and um I I will read the title um resolution of the Town Council town of Fort Meers Beach amending resolution 2473 containing the procedures for development agreements with deviations to carry to clarify that these development Agreements are home rule development agreements and to amend related notice provision uh requirements for consistency with notice requirements in section 2-98 and chapter 34 of the town of Fort Meyer speech so this item is in your packet today um I did mention it on Monday at your meeting um because we wanted to make sure you had enough time to look at it and if there were any questions um in that regard this item will be on your agenda for um October the 18th November nov the days are running together um yes for November 18th and we wanted you to make sure that there was um an understanding of of what this does what it doesn't do um your code basically had some language in it that recognized you could have statutory development agreements as well as home rule development agreements and then it gave a lot of information about statutory development agreements but not so much about home rule development agreements and you do have a little bit more flexibility with adoption of a home rule development agreement your code said that um you know the issues would basically be hashed out out in an administrative Rule and um moving very quickly um after Ian to try to get um Redevelopment started and making the town more resilient to to Future storms um the resolution was adopted containing a um administrative code and after that there were a lot of projects that were interested in pursuing this however none of them really did until quite recently and today's hearing is not about uh Red Coconut or Seagate I want to be clear on the record it's really focused on your procedures and how you go about these things um so with that said the uh the res the resolution and the administrative code was drafted very quickly to try to provide a tool um we have gone through it in part um you don't have a final development agreement um approved or or denied um but as we went through the process with that one project um we noticed a few things that we wanted to clarify in uh the procedural rules as well as um make a couple of changes so I just want to briefly highlight what the strike and inserts are why they're there and then again no action is needed today um because this will be on your November 18th so you can think about it a little bit more more um first off um the way that this thing has been described has been a development agreement with deviations yet the development agreement itself may not even have deviations in it it's one item that could be in there so we want to change U the uh the way that it's characterized and make it um home rule development agreements and so the first part of it is basically um eliminating uh the word deviations and just keeping it as a home rule development agreement um so you see a lot of that throughout and um I do want to bring your attention to the sentence that reads um in that introductory SE session section um a approval of a development home rule development agreement and the deviations provided for in such home rural development agreement shall be considered tan amount to and commerate to a plan development for purposes of determining consistency with the comprehensive plan what we found was that the notice requirements for a statutory development agreement is somewhat different from our notice requirements for a um uh plan development uh approval so we want to make it the same because of the fact that um this is intended in some instances to be a substitute for um your plan development um approvals and when we look at the notice Provisions um for a PD it requires a u notice to adjacent Property Owners within 375 ft um this version of it went ahead and said um 500 foot radius so we left we left that in um the other difference is that the statutory development agreement requires a minimum of two public hearings um the way that you process your um PD approvals is it's actually three public hearings it's a public hearing before the LPA for purposes of determining consistency and recommendation and then because we will be adopting these by ordinance it requires um two uh public hearings before you with the advertisement um prior 10 days prior to the second public hearing as you do for all your ordinances so in a way this is actually broadening um the the notice uh Provisions related to it and then I think the only other real just real quick so are you in essence codifying what we've already been doing are we are yes we're making it consistent right so so in essence what we just went what we're going through now will be sort of precedent yes as for what we're going to do in the future yes gotcha and as we we're going through what we're doing now uh we discovered that there were these inconsistencies and so we want to make it consistent got um this would be retroactive to your decision back in um April when you first adopted it and you know future projects that came through they would be coming through with the same um notice and process that you do for uh plan development approval got it um because that is a um pretty significant component of of moving forward with these um I did mention that the section that talks about benefits um based on the lpa's discussion um we would add special benefit or public benefit um because there appears to be um a distinction regarding that so that is pretty much an overview of what we're hoping to accomplish and again no action is needed other than feedback today and this item will be on your agenda on November the 18 John any feedback good vice mayor edol nothing additional seems Seems appropriate counil Woodson so one of my questions is who all is involved in the negotiations of um whether it's public benefit or what are the advantages or what is it who who is all involved in that discussion is that just staff is that is that our town manager is that us as individuals because I I don't think it's been clarified okay um and I've had that question um asked of me as well in the context of how do you define the special benefit and the public benefit so in the rules itself um there is a section it's 3.1 where it begins the negotiation process and if you're following on your um agenda materials it's on page 31 so there the discussion begins with the town manager or the town manager's design typically the town planner and then there is basically um as we've gone through the process there's a series of meetings and um in this particular instance the um uh property owner developer provided a draft and then there was further further discussion there um with planning staff really focused on the technical components of it but not so much the um the give and take of of some of the the broader things um I mentioned earlier the absence of a strategic plan that that is kind of where that um issue first came up because once that plan is in in place then the property owners developers they have a better idea of what might be or might not be um a public or a special benefit um and then at that point it goes to the LPA to uh begin their discussion for consistency primarily but they would provide a recommendation U along with with that to you and then it's at your level with so um okay and and I don't want to interrupt anybody else's input but I see Patrick in the audience and I know Patrick had a lot of influence in the development of this and I'm just wondering if it's appropriate we all get through our comments if Patrick could make some comments on how this all came about and sure the whole I I I have no hesitation it's it's your call leave it up I I don't have any issue with it because I'm sure he's gonna have some comments after I make mine anyway no objection okay so we'll continue with comments and then Patrick and I'm good so my comments are the issue I've always had with development agreements and and I think it's it's really showing now is I understand that the intent is to quote unquote speed up the process but the more I read through these or this and the more I I think about it the more it reiterates what I had hesitation for from the beginning is it no offense to the town manager but the town manager is not a planner and it allows the town manager or his designate to make negotiations non-binding to bring to the council when you go through the other process CPD RP process it at least allows the staff to give a recommendation one way or another they're not making the decision but they're allowing that they're allowed to make a recommendation then the staff or then the LPA votes on it then it goes to the council they make the ultimate policy decision to me these development agreements when they there's almost the implication that it's been approved by count by Town staff to get to the policy decision makers it it it's like it's you're taking the LPA process out of it because they're not ultimate policy makers that the five people that sit up here are and to me you're you're circumventing a process yes they have input but they have really no say and and what I I don't mean that derogatory I just mean it is you have no you can give your recommendation one way or another but the ultimate Council so now in my mind the way I see it is a development agreement that makes it to the council level without it saying the stat staff approves it it made it that far because the staff felt it was enough to go forward for an approval even if the LPA denies it and now it sits up here and there's not a lot of teeth in here for the town in my opinion to be able to say you know there's a lot of flexibility and latitude allowed to a developer in this agreement but none to the town the town is binded by what's in this so are they to a certain extent but I don't know if I'm making a lot of sense but I don't know how we can put more teeth in this I I I to me it just seems too much in a developers favor not into I understand they want to get to a point where they know what they can build before they invest money in all the drawings and all that kind of thing and I 100% get to that I just feel like there's something missing in here that allows the town to be able to come back and say you know hold on a minute this is you know this is not what we had talked about at the LPA this is not what we talked about in our meetings that you know the staff was involved in with the developer and and I developers have a dedicated staff to do nothing but look at the town's code when they're looking at the development their sole purpose is to do that we technically do too but they're also looking at 15 20 30 other project at the same time and what we have seen over the last couple weeks is because things are moving so fast things are getting missed and we're having to go back and do things like this and that's my biggest fear is if that's happening now with just a simple document what are we missing that they're seeing that we are not going to be able to go back and do and and that's why I've always had the issue with the with the development agreement there's got to be a way to be able to and it's hard to talk about it because we haven't really seen one and full detail yet but it's hard for me to to you guys are the experts how do you get something in there that gives the town more teeth to be able to come back and say wait a minute this is not what the initial discussions were about this is not what was said in the LPA this is not what was said in the council meeting but because of the agreement it's interpretive that you can take building a and move it over here because somebody else down the road said we don't want it there does that make sense because even after the approval at our level it has to go through several other approvals to even be able to happen on a Barrier Island and what they determined could supersede what we approved with no ratifications or ramifications for us to go back and alter it if that makes sense and that that's where I would like to see this strengthen if it's possible legally to do it well not lose the intent of being able to allow developer to understand what they can do before they go and spend all the money so um you know the one item that you brought up was the recommendation uh as far as from staff um what the the rules currently say is it shall not be required for the town manager or designed to make a recommendation as to whether the Town Council should approve or not approve a development agreement and I believe I mean your code allows that to be in there um but I think that that was trying to get staff out of the position of making a policy decision um as far as what is a special benefit and what is a public benefit and they wanted to uh defer and uh to the difference of of the Town Council as to what tradeoffs need to be made um in that process so I mean it's if you like that could be um changed and you could ask for um a recommendation and staff will then ask based on what um that's my problem right and the what is really the public benefit or the special benefit which I think as a town there's really not agreement yet and that that's the issue you nailed it right on the head that's the issue that I have in talking with staff members and asking why you can't make a recommendation and the answer has always been exactly what you just said what is it that we're recommending we don't have enough we don't have enough information here to make a recommendation because we don't know what this is going to look like here or that's going to be there we just have a concept of a building so we don't have a way to recommend approval or denial based on the Land Development code of the comprehensive plan we that's the issue that I have we're taking our staff out of the equation because they have nothing to evaluate and I don't know if there's a magic way to make it so that we can achieve what we're trying to see achieve on both sides but to me we're taking out the strongest Ally we have in a development agreement because they have nothing to go off of right and so I again what I think I've heard um several times is that they're they're looking for the guidance on what is a special benefit and what is not which is what which is what we just talked about and then hopefully maybe after the um the joint meeting there'll be a clearer Direction and then at that point if staff is comfortable um making a recommendation um they you know they they would I'm assuming um I guess feedback from the town manager absolutely I mean that's why we hire planners you're right I'm not and and it's there's a lot to it you know even the places I've been you bring the finance director and operations director and planners to that table and the manager usually is not a big part of that um come in after they've already kind of negotiated see bless you if there needs to be any uh if there's any concern from from as I represent you in those meetings technically that maybe we've discussed something but but I think I just emailed Amy the 13th next Wednesday uh joint meeting can you check your calendar so we can get this moving as quickly as possible got a conflict in the afternoon at 1:30 cor let's let's deal with that later let's good but I'm just saying I'm trying to get that as quick as we can so yeah I I agree we staff needs more clear Direction so we can go forward because you're kind of developing something uh pun intended that that we don't have a lot of direction for so just kind of grasping it at things in the air but that's that and I guess that's that's concerning to me as well because now what you're saying is based on what the Council on the LPA determin a special benefit and or public benefit will ultimately be the decision on whether or not you bring a development agreement forward and that's not the only criteria to be able to bring us a development forward you've got the Land Development code in the comp plan it's true and and you should they should weigh all those together as well yes correct and and each project is is evaluated differently so what might be a special benefit for one may not be for another um depending on the size of of the development itself um I would Advocate that perhaps if we could have that um joint meeting prior to your meeting on the 18th because that's our opportunity to really clean some of this up um you know we have one project that's kind of in the middle of the process right now but there's others that are waiting to come forward and we would prefer to have better Direction and and clarity as to how we review these things so if you can before another date well and it just goes back to our discussion about the public benefits that we just finished up is once that meetings happened Whatever Gets determined out of that does it put a larger development in a better place than a smaller development because not not the small developments can't do what the large developments can so depending on that conversation a development agreement is no longer available to a smaller development because they can't meet all the public benefits the that was the whole point of a development agreement was for the little guys so they wouldn't have to go through CU this is going completely against what the the point of it was but if you if you look at public benefit or special benefit on a caseby casee basis then you would take that into consideration the size of the project so um if it is a smaller development then there might be a less intense special benefit or public benefit doesn't say any of that I think it does I mean it it doesn't say that it's a requirement um let me go back to that um so in section two where it talks about the minimum content requirements the paragraph It's 2.16 it says a description of any special and we're going to add the word or public benefit to the town as a result of the development and then there are some um examples such as the promotion of Economic Development um there's uh it says affordable housing we probably would want to change that to Workforce housing hurricane recovery so there may not be a special benefit or a public benefit and so when it comes to you um they may say none available and then at that point you could say well we're going to reject it I mean elimination would this is only saying that the agreement that comes to you has to address that at a minimum and if there aren't any there aren't any now wait a minute now so so you're you're you're assuming that that the council doesn't have the common sense to understand that a tiny Boutique Hotel who's returning uh who may not be able to donate a parking lot to the town or have a huge F Corridor but just needs a little extra height or a couple extra rooms but the return of the boutique mom and pop hotel is the public benefit and we can discern that I mean we we yes that could be stated yeah so it has that flexibility in it exactly but but how you determine that is going to be a policy decision by by you all and tenancy to your point going back to last summer I believe it was when we were initially talking about the comp plan uh it was council's View at that time to deal with every development based on its own merits so we wouldn't be asking you to do any differently with the development order as we would with any other Development coming before you teach it all or or respect it all on its own merits staff is always going to have a bite at that Apple it's not going to get a free pass it's where we come into that mix that that makes the difference and I think moving forward if if we kind of agree that yes this was originally designed to help that smaller unit and now it's been kind of opened up to take on anything we're still devel we're still viewing it based on its own Merit and what it can provide to the town at this time this place uh it's not going to be a rubber stamp that okay this guy gets to get this and the next guy nope uh because you don't me that Paradigm it can't be so that's where the Direction came from to kind of go in this path that we're treating each development lack of a better word Frankie nobody saying you're not I'm not trying imply yeah what I'm trying to say is Staff interpretation on a small project may be different than that of a large project and although I agree with you 100% that a small or business that was here before that wants to come back and in itself is is a public benefit right but would staff see it that way there's nothing in here that that directs you towards that I mean we can add it when we talk about our in our joint meeting but to me this is just too open-ended for staff to really make any recommend ation I'm not going to try evidently I'm the only one that's thinking this way so maybe I'm the one that's in the wrong but we have our hired staff telling me that they have a problem with it and they don't feel it's in the best interest of the town that makes my ears go up yeah and staff has told me that so I'm trying to figure out what it is that is making them say what they're saying that makes my ears go up to challenge how this is not in the best interest of the town it's I get the I get the point I just I I don't want to keep repeating myself I think i' I think I've said we'll go ahead no I I think because I've had some of these same conversations and I think what what they're worried about is are these special special benefits and public benefits and if we get that you know created for them and everybody is in agreement then that gives them the path to when they can make those decisions I mean I think that that's what this whole benefit thing is all about the whole discussion about is everybody getting into agreement on it so that you do have Direction I think that's a a fair statement to say we're just looking for the guard rails and the priorities of Town Council where's the guardrails so let's say I'm a developer and I come in and I meet all the things that we put together so that where where's the guard rail I should be able to ask for 30 stories I should be able to ask for 40 stories cuz I'm meeting your special benefit guard rails where's the guard rails my thought I thought the comp plan and Land Development code were the guard rails and you could go above the guard rails based on certain things so if I come in as a developer and say I meet all these things that you had come out of your special meeting with the LPA I meet every single one of them why can't I ask for 30 stories or 40 stories I'm just being exaggerating but you get my point and how do you have a path to say no you don't meet that when clear in the development agreement they've met everything that the council and the where's our back stop to say too much is too much the five council members are the back stop at the time to be able to say no you don't you can't do it or yes you can do it you know you're yes basically to evaluate that what's the point of having a Land Development according to comp plan then well that's that's the minimum I mean the consistency with the comp plan is a non-negotiable it has to be consistent um there is the opportunity for some deviations from your Land Development code you said it's the minimum is it the minimum or the maximum or is it both if do not if you are inconsistent with the comp plan the project is just basically dead in the water okay um but the other things that maybe they satisfy the comp plan they satisfy the code to a certain extent but there's something unique about this project that um they want to move forward and um provide you with something more than maybe you already have and in my opinion that would possibly come from items in your strategic plan or possibly in your Capital Improvement plan um if you had a parking uh fund which is stuff is over here we're here so I understand what you're saying but all these developments that are lining up are going to come through before we get to there you know it and I know it and we right now in my opinion I don't think we have anything to pre produce guard rails if you know the comp plan is vague it says if you provide special benefit yes you can can get additional height potentially mhm where's the guard rail someone comes in I come into you Jason say I'm meeting everything that the LPA and the the council have set forth that meets public benefit or special benefit I want 30 stories what prevents you from saying no or recommending approval and then it goes to the c or goes to the LPA and the LPA is like whoa wait a minute we don't think this is a good idea at all we recommend no then it goes to the council then it gets approved it it there's nothing there to able to well they're they're guidelines and I think once you have your joint meeting they would they would show what what's important to the town at this time okay and and and based on those guidelines they could formulate a um a recommendation that yes they think that it's good public policy right now to go ahead and accept this type of benefit um in exchange for this that they'll then give you their opinion um because right now they're not um because they have that lack of um of understanding as to what is important what is not and um you know currently your procedural rules again does not require them to give that uh value or normative decision all right well I won't keep kicking a dead horse I'm sure we'll kick it a few more times in our joint meeting sorry I keep looking at you again you're the only one here Patrick you want to come up and share the other side I'm sure you have something I always love our discussions good morning uh Patrick been asked for the record um first of all congratulations on uh your elections uh mayor vice mayor Scott congratulations um I I don't really have any specific comments or any critique of what's being discussed uh just to give a little feedback um we were looking for a streamline process to get some smaller projects approved what do you mean by we um the LPA when I used to sit on the LPA thank you um one of the things that was suggested by um the town attorney's uh office I don't know if it was Nancy or or your colleague was that we had an opportunity to use uh the uh home rule developer agreement to craft some kind of process that could be streamlined and it give gave us a lot of flexibility as to how we craft it if you recall when I uh proposed this initially I proposed three different tiers and my thought was always for bigger projects obviously the required minimum documentation that would have to be provided would be U much more than than a r small um Boutique Hotel um what we wound up with is a document that I think is fair is flexible uh I've never had a problem with I think is it uh 17 criteria in there at a minimum um that's what I recall from one of the hearings I think I heard I I think that's correct but but I've looked at the list when it came out uh it applies across the board to a small project or big project I think there's enough teeth in there that if you as a council want to ask for something specific or ask for a lot you can and and also if you want to allow a small boutique hotel to be able to provide very um very minimal documentation and when I mean minimal not that they get away with with stuff that the the bigger ones uh can't get away with but instead of hiring uh a whole design team to craft a site plan they could possibly even themselves do it on a on a grid sheet you know and try to do it the scale and keep it simple and save some money so so I think what you have before you um works perfectly fine um just based on the comments from the mayor what I would say is in my opinion you this is a negotiated contract um you have the opportunity to ask for what you want in that contract uh so if someone does come in with 30 stories um you know your direct conduit is the town manager Town manager talks to his staff and when he meets with you individually if you don't like the height you don't like certain elements you let him know in my mind his job is to synthesize that information and obviously he's going to get different opinions from from everybody synthesize that come up with what he think is kind of the general uh guidance he's been given negotiate in good faith with the developer but there's no reason also when that gets presented to you that Andy can't come before you and said you know we we worked together here's the process we went through we were in agreement on all these things and they and I asked for the following and they did not agree and you're told what that is and then as policy makers you can say we agree with you Andy that should be in there or uh no we agree with the developer it doesn't need to be in there so I think there's that that leeway there there's that negotiation uh and ultimately I just want to stop you right there because what what you said is is concerning and Andy didn't do this on we know that the one out there now but I don't think what you just said to me that sounds like it's trying to circumvent the sun san law because if he's talking to each one of us individually and we're saying yeah we we think what you negotiated is good you're predetermining an outcome before you even get before the LPA because he can count to three so I think to me the whole point of this development agreement was for him and staff to negotiate good faith with you they may feel based on their interpretation from the council that they've heard in open meetings they can then present it and then it goes from there I don't like the way that you laid it out I think that's that's completely backwards of the way the system is supposed to work you you can ask your your attorney but you're you hire this Council and and County Commissioners hire two direct people that they hire directly okay that's your town manager and that's your your your town attorney MH they work for you directly so when when you start talking about the Sunshine Law I think you're we're talking different things these are your employees you can talk to them whenever you want and we don't count votes we don't count heads I I understand that I'm just telling you what people on the outside are going to be hearing what they're see perception the perception right that's what I'm trying to get at understand the process I but timately the decision is up to to council it comes back to you and and you can say hell no no way we will not approve this developer agreement your staff could have worked on it you know for months that doesn't make a difference you have that final decision and and when it comes to guard rails and limits again we have a comp plan that allows for the ability to ask for more height and the ab the ability to ask for more lodging density uh if you want more residential density that's a complant Amendment that's that's different but I think when it comes to how do we deny something even if someone gives you benefits and they have to justify the benefits are commencer with the ask okay you always have the the opportunity to say no we don't think that you know there's enough weight there to justify that also when it comes to approving or or denying any project and I hate that I'm bringing this up and kicking my my you know myself in the back but but the the you've got language in the comp plan and language in your LDC with regards to compatibility and ultimately that's what we see everywhere we go when people don't want to proove a project and they don't like it they they they they say it's not comp comptible for the following reason height is a great example that you could say it's not compatible because a b c and d so so I think you always have that opportunity it's not it shouldn't be assumed that because we got a few public benefits from from a developer that we automatically have to agree to what they're asking and I get and I appreciate your honesty and your open discussion Patrick you've always been good about having two-way conversations and I think good things come out of it what you just my concern and I'll ask you honestly if you don't have to answer if you don't want to I don't want to put un a spot if you're representing a developer and you come forth with a plan that gets negotiated in good faith between the Developer Town staff and the town manager then it goes to the LPA the LPA approves it and it comes to the councel your argument is going to be we've got approval from your town staff and your town manager we've got an approval from your l PA why are you denying us your argument is going to be we've had unanimous approval let's just say it's unanimous for the LPA we've had approval even though right now there's no approval or denial recommendation from our staff in the way the agreement is currently written your argument on behalf of the developer when you stand up there is going to say we believe it's consistent with a comp plan and Land Development code and so does your Town manager your town staff and your LPA because they've approved it to get to you to me we still will ultimately have the final decision or whomever is sitting up here mhm but it becomes more of a and maybe I'm just being guarded to me it just it it allows another path to make it harder for policy decision maker to say yes or no but but I think because vice versa if you turn it around and the LPA or the staff maybe doesn't feel that in this situation the way it's written now they may not feel that it's in the best interest of the town but we're not the policy makers so we're going to let this develop agreement go forward to the policy decision makers because we don't make recommendations LPA recommends approval or denial it recommends they LPA recommends denial it's still going to come to the town and it can still be approved even though both other agencies before us have said we don't really like it but because you guys like it you can approve it yeah and I guess that's where my disconnect is with this whole thing is whether it's a large project or small project to me that gets out through each individual thing but I I I think I I know the argument from that side is going to be but I can tell you that personally we always want recommend recommendations for approval before we get to you guys would you wouldn't and we and we work hard at it and and sometimes we go back to the drawing board and we make changes and we try to get to yes you know I think with staff ultimately we look at it from the standpoint is they look at the criteria and they try to be real objective and and not let some of the public discussions um influence them but they look through it and the first thing that we have to get through is we have to get through that checklist and make sure that we meet all the criteria uh obviously when it comes to an issue of asking for more and providing public benefit in exchange uh we fully anticipate that we're trying to put our best foot forward in some cases we may have either the LPA or we could even have the town manager if we did a developer agreement say you know because I can push the issue I can say Andy let's agree to disagree on this and we'll move forward but I fully expect that when we get before you Andy would say I negotiate in good faith I can't recommend approval for this because they did not agree to the following or he could present that I I 100% recommend approval or you could say you know if they're willing to to abide to a few additional conditions then I recommend approval he's got that leeway in my my mind so I think the checks and balances are there uh obviously I always want an approval from my client and I work really hard to get the recommendation of approval from the LPA and and and from staff I listen to the LPA meeting when it comes to to benefits and and special benefits I think it was very helpful uh and that you know the the at least the way I saw it is I always saw a benefit let's say in a restaurant okay and some people I understand don't see it as much of a benefit now we're just going to call it a special benefit maybe carries a little less weight because benefit to obviously the developer and benefit to the public I get that it makes sense but at least now it's not where across the board we're saying no we're taking off the table it's not a benefit it's just a benefit that's a little different and Carries less weight so I enjoyed that discussion I think they they did a great job they also talked about economic impact and when a developer comes to town and invests in our community again we all understand there's there's a benefit to the developer otherwise he wouldn't be in business he wouldn't be doing that but we we we are also recognizing that we want that investment we want those dollars in our town so I I thought it was a great meeting um um and then the last thing in closing that I'd like to maybe caution you about or maybe have Nancy look into this we are still under stand Bill 250 so we have adopted this developer agreement and the developer agreement in my mind was less onerous and provided more flexibility not a problem with it now that it's adopted if we go back and make it more stringent that could be concern uh again with with same thing with public benefits special benefits I think if they remain guidelines and we understand what we're dealing with um and and obviously it provides guidelines also for staff when they evaluate and and you as a council when you when you make final decisions but again uh concerned a little bit that if we try to codify this and adopt this it it could be a concern so uh that's that's all I have if you have any questions I'd be happy to that I might want to add one little comment is Senate Bill 250 does not relate to commercial property it only relates to residential property so it takes out uh we had a meeting with the director of fdm Kevin Guthrie and his personal or their staff attorney pulled up statute and verse and uh because we were using that for a few other items that we were talking with them on and they specifically said Senate Bill 250 does not Encompass commercial property I had a discussion with Andy uh about that and the the exemption because he we were talking in in Broad terms and he brought that up and and F and I followed up with attorneys including County attorneys locally uh there is an exception when it comes to um to flood issues and related to uh trailers basically that's where that exemption applies but when it comes to regulations and code issues it applies across the board to everybody according according to the attorneys i t to so I think the exemption would be more flood related in trailers well thanks Patrick I appreciate it I I hope you heard that prental that that shot across the bow that we just got there that was a I know exactly what that was but with the Senate Bill 250 if you could research what Frankie has said and what yes that was a subtle warning yes I get that um however I think a lot of these projects have residential in them so because they're mixed um it's probably going to apply and I'm not looking to to make things more at the bare minimum out of this development agreement I would love to at least get a recommendation from staff one way or another if we think that it's it is um adverse to S sp250 no as far as recommendation to move forward to the LPA and the council right now we've got no recommendation the recommendation is we recommend approval because it's going to the LPA I would like to at least see just for another line of defense for the town if nothing else to be able to you guys can make a recommendation LPA can make a ration and that time it's the developers business decision if they want to continue to move forward so I think what we'll see is no matter what recommendations it's pretty much clear that five people are going to make the decision so I know it's probably for not but at least it would give us some PE them the legal world so mayor what you would be advocating for is the removal of section 3.2.2 which is saying it shall not be required for the town manager or designate to make a recommendation so with that elimination um or the better approach May to say that the manager or the designate will make a recommendation for clarity that might be the better way if you well it it's whatever the direction is of council I would like to see one way or another that be put in there I mean just to do at least and I know staff is probably not happy with having to make a recommendation and not having all the data but I mean you are the experts of the Land Development code and the comprehensive plan you get to do this every day your your recommendations have some weight for both the developer and for the town so one way or another I think it would be important to have that in there but I'll leave it to the rest of the council the input if they want to see that added or if they're okay with leaving it the way it is John I'm just reading 3.2.3 so okay we'll go the other end Scott read the two you know you know for for transparency mayor I I I think there's a perception out there that this all this stuff is done in a vacuum and and without uh staff's approval or or blessing or even whether it's a recommendation or not it's like hey look our our planners were involved in this and and this this was the recommendation I think that was one of the problems with the LPA is they they were looking for that answer from input input from you guys so I I I I'm okay with that I mean I don't know is it going to take up way more staff time no wouldn't think so no okay so it's not going to take up more time I I mean I I think the LPA when I watched that meaning o over again it looked like they were all looking for for your guys not so much blessing but your your input so Mak yeah and and working on the current one that in play um there was a lot of give and take uh Nancy and I were involved with that as far as the town was concerned and when we get to that certain juncture as what we consider a public benefit or a a public use um that that was the stumbling block at that point we had the old list uh going back to you know a piece of art hanging on the wall to uh a drinking fountain at the back of a property I'm just being factious here but these these were the things that were commonly asked in in in past and as we go through and we started talking both sides back and forth these were already things like yeah no no problem we we we'll do this we'll do this we'll do this uh we we didn't have any really static uh going back and forth with the criteria that we had I I think at that point when we both agreed to a finished document that was proof enough that it was being passed on I I don't think we would have gotten to a completed document or assigned agreement if we didn't come again backtracking into the agreement phase um I I think that was a difficult part dealing with what we had to deal with at the time um and not having a Jason used guard rails it a lot of it was Antiquated asks um compared to what we are today and I get but what you just said is ex exctly what we've been trying to discuss I think this for the last half hour at least what I've been trying to discuss is in every negotiation you're not going to get what you want on either side but if there's something in there that the staff feels or the developer feels is non-negotiable but one side or the other is requesting it that it be in there and if it's we'll just say for instance you got to have a clear Podium and the staff is like absolutely not we got to have a clear Bodum staff says absolutely not we will recommend denial based on this one item but we'll send it for forward because everything else is close we know and let the policy decision makers then make the decision that's all I'm trying to get at I understand because what you just said is in the way it's currently done is it would never even get to the LPA if you didn't feel it was in the best interest of the town or wasn't meeting the needs well it's not your decision one way or another to make in my opinion it should go through the process but you should at least recommend that we did in good faith bargain we didn't reach the entire agreement here's why we feel it didn't and then it's a business decision on the developer side to say we want to continue forward to the LPA they make the recommendation it's a business decision to move on to the council if they want now I believe no matter what's recommended in in reality they're probably going to move forward to the LPA because at the end of the day they're the ones that make the final decision or to the council but at least it gives us some legal leverage to say or it gives a little bit more input to the council at the time to say well I understand why you didn't appr prove it but in the grand scheme of things it's now 2 years after a storm and that really doesn't apply we understand what you were trying to do but doesn't really apply that's that's what I'm trying to get out of this is just a little bit more a little bit more flexibility for staff to be able to recommend or deny flexibility is something we always want yeah I don't remember what it's like to be flexible I think one other thing is you this was the the first bite of the Apple you know I don't think had happened here before so I think the learning curve was you know straight up now we want to flatten that little B I want to be careful that we're we're talking in general not correct specific correct yes and everything going forward this agreement is what everyone's going to use small or big and correct to be able to make sure that it's in the best interest of both people to be able to move forward one way or another that little bit that little piece I think would would go a long way may I summarize I I think what I'm hearing is that you are looking for a recommendation from staff and perh perhaps a little bit of a narrative of how the quote unquote negotiation transpired I think that would be great not just for the council but for the public to understand because they're they're allowed to negotiate in the back room with the developer and to be able to have that open conversation here's why we recommended denial or approval based on what they were offering and how that whole thing kind of played out I think it would be beneficial to the council and the LPA and the public to be able to hear and see that yeah that narrative could easily be supplied Scott you seem like you're okay with the time yeah I mean one of the things I just heard Frankie say that it stood out in my mind is you know decisions based on Antiquated knowledge and our world has changed there's no wh fans or buts and I think by putting in these guard rails if you will if that's what you want to call them but the benefits the um was the public benefit and then it's the amenities um all of those are different now in my mind they're different with what we need I mean the economic development our transportation we've always had an issue with Transportation well now is the time to address those things um our waterways the canals I mean our world has changed and we've got to change with it and we've got to put those guidelines in for that and I think that would help but yes I do agree that um we should have direct direction from the staff from the town manager and the narrative around it so I think a place we could add that language would be in 3.3.1 and um the towards the end of that um it's very long sentence but it goes on to say the town manager or town manager's design shall transmit such development agreement to the LPA we would add with a recommendation and summary of the negotiations I that would address that sounds perfect okay vice mayor you okay with that I think that's fine I I do recommend though that staff if particularly for some of these smaller projects if as we know these this this Litany of public benefits that we're going to put forth are going to be somewhat subjective I do think that if the town manager either uh approves or denies or directs a staff to approve or deny and they they base their decision upon a sub objective decision I I would just ask that that be included in the narrative whether it be Pro or con because we've got folks God love them who on our staff who don't live on the island that may not know that you can't get a haircut in Fort Meers Beach or or you know there's no bathroom you know south of of of of of uh a diamond head so I mean I I just I just think it's helpful to or the what's the what's the what's the advantage of this public how strong is that public benefit that's being offered again either Pro orcon I just think in your narrative that you would include that hey this is a somewhat subjective opinion of the Town based upon the the you know the value of this public benefit then then let the council decide and but just put I think I just think that's important to be included in the narrative councelor k um I'm kind of torn I get both sides of the argument I guess um for me currently I don't need that I I'd like to see the the more detailed but it it almost seems like it's a crutch I know um in other agreements it's well the LPA approved it uh so does that become a crutch where I don't have to really do as much work as I should be doing um and then it becomes AO to attack uh people up here for not following what was already recommended or not recommended uh that bothers me but then trying to forward think on on future councils I can I can kind of understand that and that's why I'm I'm torn so yeah I understand I for me it's it comes down consistency you look at what we've done since the storm for instance there's been recommendation recommendations from staff to deny based on for no other reason it was a design it was they could do what was within the code but they chose to design something different it's gone through and gotten approved many many times like a parallel and lots look at you know small houses that need to be it was recommended as denial but for the reasons based on the guidelines that they had to follow and then the policy makers made the decision to approve it so it it has gone both ways it I just think it to me it keeps it consistent with what we have with everything else being a new document that the town's going to be binded to it just I wouldn't call it a crutch but at least it provides some clarification as to how they got to their recommendation one way or another and and that to me is where the narrative comes in I would love to see more of that yeah that's that's that's key just saying we approve or deny doesn't do any any here's why they asked for this in our in our negotiations we feel this is what the town Vision comp plan Land Development code say they don't want to agree to it therefore we deny it because of this reason totally and then let the policy makers decide you're looking at us Jason like do you you see where we're going don't ask me sure sure whatever you say all right I think you have the direction I do um so we'll be adding some language to 3.2.3 and 3.3.1 with the other changes that have already are in there and you'll see that again on the 18 okay does anybody else need to take a break or we'll just keep moving but we'll discuss slowly everybody okay keep moving Scott you're all right yeah the next is the electric bikes discussion of the bike ordinance and electric bike regulations Nancy yeah today I think is a Nancy day um it is it is every day is a Nancy I thought it said so on the calendar my calendar said I'll try to make it short and sweet because we still have some more items on your agenda today and I know um we are getting late into the meeting um okay so back in May um there was an initial discussion regarding um some concerns raised about having bicycles travel on your sidewalks um and then there were a couple couple other questions concerning whether you could force someone to stop and uh be very mindful of pedestrian traffic as well as whether you could require uh the bicycle rental companies to put some additional information in their packets regarding the town's um rules and regulations so we've come back with a very uh General um memo looking for additional direction if you want us to um move forward and try to draft some type of um uh ordinance for you or revise your existing ordinance um the first question is really can you regulate electric bicycles and based on some uh Florida Statutes the answer is yes it appears you can um you are not preempted by the state uh statutes or the legislature didn't preempt you but um you cannot be in conflict with what we with what the uh the state statutes provide um as far as the the fource stop um again you can uh regulate um requiring them to not put pedestrians at risk um but we do there is another St statutory section that requires the the free flow of traffic and so you really can't impede that um there is a statute that says that you have the right U that a bicycle Rider must yield the right of way to a pedestrian and give an audible signal when overtaking and passing The Pedestrian and then the last item very quickly on um the notices so I wanted to focus on what your ordinance currently allows and I did provide copies of that um after let's see there's some Florida Statutes the copies of the sections that we referenced I'm almost there it would be on page well look like it starts on 47 yes it does it does begin there um what I wanted to focus on is is um these are these rules that you have in place on um section 18-33 regarding traffic these are very comparable to what is currently in Florida Statutes and the idea of the bicycle helmet I believe that yeah and having no Riders uh more than one person on a bicycle um and then moving on to um section 28- 81 on page 49 um this is your your primary um regulation that you have regarding bicycles and then the last part is um assisted bicycles are prohibited um this is 28- 84 there really isn't a definition for assisted bicycles um you know there there would be perhaps an issue whether or not that includes an electric bicycle because it does your code does not specifically have reference to um electric bicycles in it although the statute does and then the last part on responsible parties um this is where you comprehensively say that bicycle owners or Riders including entities that rent or loan to others for use on the public rideway they are responsible for compliance with these regulations the rental contract language shall not redirect or assign responsibility for compliance with 28- 81 and that's the whole Litany of um statutory type uh regulations so that is our general overview of of the issue and we're just looking for more direction if you want us to um to do a little bit more work and bring you back a proposed ordinance change or what is is the desire of council I would like it for us to each give their opinion to you on the direction so that you're not going to write something then we're going to come back and pick a part I just soon give you Direction so that when you come back with a potential amendment that okay it's what you would like to see what you like to see as opposed to come up with something and we'll we've already got something let's let's look at what's here yeah if everyone's okay with that who wants to go first Scott you want to go first sure okay U my question pertains to page 51 about violation penalty section 28- 87 I I'm okay with with bicycles electric bikes being being on the sidewalks but I think that the fine for bad behavior is 50 warning and then $50 that's not going to stop anybody from being being the knucklehead Jim I think well if you're gonna if you're gonna if you're GNA violate this I I want to know what what the maximum find we can okay because I I I think people really do indeed want the ability down especially down in the downtown district to able to ride on the sidewalks but it's the Knuckleheads going the wrong way going too fast creating chaos that I want them I I want them to be penalized and penalized big and that and then we can also send a message to the places that rent the ebikes that you know bad behavior there's going to be a big problem I don't know how we write how you so that's kind of a an informational uh requiring them to provide a brochure that would have that yeah here warning in the rules when you and you you sign that rental agreement you automatically to this okay you've got to go to the the the correct Direction with traffic and you can't go over whatever it's 10 15 mil hour in here it says 15 yeah 15 right that's fine but there should also be a component about recklessness especially with regards to pedestrians I mean it's riding down the center of the road Scott before you go on on that part can I just add would you go as far as to say that not just the rental companies but should it expand into the short-term Rental World because if I'm coming down down and I'm bringing my electric bike should I be then told from the person I'm renting from what the rules and operations are even though I'm not renting a bike if you're going to do it you do it across the board is what I'm that's going to be a Pandora's Box I mean we're we're telling we're trying to tell people if I'm speaking with my short-term rental hat on we're we're we're trying to make people Turtle compliant we're I mean there's I mean we could add it into our into our book it's not like I have to email everybody but no that's what I'm saying it's whatever the documentation is it I think should be across I don't know that it needs to be in your code I mean that could just be information that that I'd be more than happy as as a vacation rental company to in our book you know we talk about turtles when we talk about you restaurants and just have the lne in there say hey just so you know ebikes you can use them finds are you will be fined if if for bad behavior something like that I don't know if we codified though well that that's what you were talking about Nancy is putting it in there I mean it could just be um town could just ask those with uh vacation rentals um we have a list right of all our vacation rentals on the island that we would uh encourage the distribution of information related to um bicycle operation and it's really for the benefit of the person who's renting because without knowing I might be on the side walk and I wouldn't be Reckless but um you know I might find myself in Pro in in trouble unnecessarily well maybe maybe we could go about this a different way to help speed things up a little bit or just should we at least go down the line and say if people are in favor of allowing them on the sidewalks and start there I mean I would hate to have each person say I would want to see this and then there's a majority that doesn't want to see them on on the sidewalk I'll start yes I I'm okay Karen I would say yes with a then we can go into the discussion of what's going to be with the speed enforcement that kind of thing yeah I'm not sure I can say in one word but I but I'll try one minute come on this is the easiest layup for one word give me a minute because I I I've talked to the sheriff department I've talked to our enfor I think we'll get into all of that I just want to are you in favor of of at least having the discussion of having them on the sidewalk whatever the enforcement I'm in favor of having the discussion okay coner King see I am as well okay so we got that out of the way now we can go into at least well do we want to include the beach at the same conversation because it's is all encompassing isn't it it it is but I believe you have a code that doesn't allow bikes on the beach it is that's why I'm saying do we want to go down the line again and see if the beach is includ and we can work on the details after any bikes on the beach I think currently it says e bikes are not allowed on the beach correct but regular bikes are allowed on the beach that's correct huh electric bikes are not allowed on the beach right that's what but it's they the two ordinances are the two sections are pretty close to align right now it's not allowed do we want to at least have the discussion right allowing then yes yes yes no John I wasn't paying attention beach bikes on the beach bikes on the beach ebikes yes I'm willing to have the discussion all right so well I'm willing to have the discussion that's what we okay yeah okay so we will have the discussion just didn't want to make sure it was a hard no everybody was against it or something um and I'm sorry I wasn't paying attention that's all right who can afford it these days anyway is that anything else oh so go ahead Scott you finish I said my Fe Karen um so I you know I am in favor of doing the ebikes I think there has to be um speed limits which is already in here 15 miles hour you know I think a lot of people use this as their primary mode of transportation a lot of the servers the people that work here um retired retired yeah I don't know if I trust myself on an ebike actually but um it' be fun to watch oh yeah it would be entertaining for sure um but you know as I look at this vehicle's prohibited and I don't know maybe I'm opening a whole nether can of worms but in our vehicles prohibited we are actually prohibiting not only ebikes but electronic skateboards wear hoverboards you know you see them all the time I mean they're everywhere motorized wheelchairs any yeah motorized wheelchairs so you know the only the only thing I would disagree with seeing on the sidewalks are golf carts yeah no way motorc but you know a motorized wheelchair um that's I mean I why wouldn't that I think motorized wheelchair they're already excluded yes right they are allowed because they are allowed yeah oh it does not apply to motorized wheelchair right and it's p primarily I believe for Ada concerns oh here we go motor motorized micro Mobility devices including but not limited to electric scooters electric skateboards one whee devices no and hoverboards are PR are prohibited right so it's there it is there so but do we want it to be I don't I question that all right vice mayor with with respect to the sidewalk issue uh I've spoken at length with the I don't want to say anybody's name name but with the sheriff's department as well and with our own enforcement Division and and and I think we're we're kind of kidding ourselves on the speed limit issue because they can't gauge speed their equipment doesn't gauge speed and and and so that's a challenge and my original thought was if you're going to pass a pedestrian you you come to a complete stop before you do it uh councelor Woodson gave me some some good food for thought on that and so I thought about it and I honestly until this morning could not come up with language and we got to wonder ful uh email from a fellow named Phillip I won't say his last name because I probably would butcher it because I don't know if I could pronounce it but it was very thoughtful and he suggested some language in this particular area that says pass pedestrians only at I'm sorry pass pedestrians at only a speed that allows you to main control and forward motion of the bike and I thought that was pretty interesting again pass pedestrians at only a speed that allows you to main control and forward motion of the bike and I think I don't want to put Tom on the spot I think he would he he thought he could find that enforcable uh I also thought Phil also Philip also suggested audible notification of a pedestrian When approaching from behind and that's General enough so hopefully I what I'm trying to do is find a tool that and and have language where our enforcement team can actually enforce this and our friends and the sheriff's department can enforce it because I do believe there are a lot of folks who are very concerned about this and again I I don't like to legislate just for Knuckleheads but and and I do understand that times are changing uh and and if our friends on the electric bikes as well as traditional bikes and and the sad thing is the vast majority of our folks who are using these are good folks and they will be more than courteous to their fellow residents but we do need to have some kind of Proviso in there that gives our enforcement team something to work with if somebody's being uh rude and and uh and and and quite frankly not respecting safety as they pass uh and there's nothing worse than that when you're when you're you've got a dog on a leash or you're just having a quiet walk and somebody just Zips by you it's very startling it's dangerous um people are with kids I mean it's just it's uh it's it's bad so I thought that language was helpful Nancy I don't know if that helps you as a lawyer but I thought it was probably the best phrase that I have seen better than I could come up with and I I I ran it briefly by Tom I don't want to put him on the spot but he he thought that he could work with that and uh and so anyways I I I would just need some kind of language like that in an ordinance like that to be comfortable passing it okay John I think enforcement is going to be the toughest part I I I'm I'm all for tougher penalties for Knuckleheads um but who's going to enforce it is it lcso is it our Rangers is it both um and again when you find out you can't uh do a speed limit um that that makes you know that's that bothers me um I'm I'd like to go forward with this and study uh a lot of the folks concerns uh as pedestrians that U whether it's just a bicycle or or ebikes come upon them and and uh and any possible um bad uh repercussions from what could possibly happen I don't want to stand in the way but I would like to at least revisit this uh say a year and and with some data to show either a we were successful or B it wasn't because of these reasons anything else not at this time yeah I I share a lot of the same conc I think to your point councelor Safford you know make it known that if you're doing something wrong but how do you enforce it we've as vice mayor said we've been told you can't enforce speed it's just not going to happen one thing that you can enforce that is very easy to see if someone's going the wrong direction with traffic that's something anyone from a distance can see that's something that you could enforce I think um however the enforcement goes that to me would be the biggest that would be the biggest danger um we have got data from from the lcso and I believe even the fire department saying bicycle accidents in the last five years have been btic called pedestrian accidents have been slim to none um I I would be in favor of you know the requirement of making them ride with traffic I think that's something that's visual you don't need a radar gun to do it who's going to enforce it if we're being honest I don't know the lcso is going to spend a lot of time pulling people over um you know I've heard to people say well you know can you can you put it in they have to be pedaling you know pedal assist okay but if you're moving this fast but you're doing 25 down the sidewalk you know what are you really doing so it I've never been a fan of making policy for for the minority and I think when it comes to ebikes on the sidewalks the Knuckleheads or the bad apples are the minorities I like your idea John of of putting a revision we'll look at this maybe you do it through season see how it goes we can get some data then at the time if there's been crashes if there's been anything I think most people that ride bikes whether it's electric or not know how to be good stewards they know they're supposed to ring a bell they know that I'm on your left I'm on your right um I don't think you're going to be able to enforce someone getting off their bike to walk around the side I mean they're just not going to do it they're going to go on the road or go around and they're going to do whatever but I think just making it very simple very clean very but I do think you have to have something in there to be able to have enforcement and the easiest thing that I've seen so far would be you got to ride with traffic if you're doing that then go after it you have you checked with with what Sanel has done they just recently Revisited they did and and they they've got the problem is sanabelle has their own Police Department yeah I know so they can inforce it much like I mean no offense to Tom if Tom stops somebody on the sidewalk and says hey you're you're going too fast or this is a class three bike not a class one bike I'm gonna write you ticket he's gonna they're gonna probably look at you and go P sand I don't have to show you my license you're not you're not a police officer it's absolutely true we we don't have the ability to do a force stop so what we do in those type of circumstances are we call lcso whoever the closest Deputy is and we follow and observe and then we'll have lcso do the force stop so for compliance most of the time it doesn't come to that to be very honest with you most of the time you stop somebody and say hey can you just be careful please and most people are like yeah I'm sorry I wasn't paying attention that that's been what we do a lot now having the directional travel would help because that allows us then to slow down where they are so they're have they're heading with traffic it's easier to go up and say that's perfect and if they're not then you can at least get in front of them and say can you please go to the other side and head with traffic as you travel on on the sidewalk just just know that if we take this and we open it I I don't know what the lawyer would speak to this but we got to be careful especially on the beach if someone gets injured I don't know if it opens us up to liability because we've now changed it from saying it's prohibited to now we're allowing it and if someone gets hurt does that open the town to liability that was my only point to that so it's would that be any different than a public sidewalk though same same same difference in some respect it's just that people don't lay down on the sidewalk usually so and not the personal challenge accepted yeah some run over you didn't have a hotel again I I when I I understand your concern on the beach but those of us that have been here and road on the beach many many times it's hard it not everybody's going to do it most people that have an electric bike they don't they're not exactly cheap so most people don't ride their electric bikes on the beach because it wrecks them I mean the sand getting in in there it just some may some may do it some may not but you can't I don't know I have a hard time policing or policy making on Knuckleheads and not that I want to see anybody getting hurt and I think revisiting it if we see data in six months it says hey we went from having no accidents to now we got 350 because somebody's riding down the beach sidewalk then then you address it but I the fact that there's been none in five years tells me that people are doing it now anyway we're not you know the very few we've had people come right out and say we're doing it anyway so well plus we have signs out there we just need to get the signs down if we're going to allow because they defeat the purpose but the thing I saw something yesterday that when you talk about you know legisl legislating Knuckleheads you know I saw a woman that she was on her bike she had a vacuum cleaner she obviously had been to a job cleaning in an apartment or something that she was a maid or she using that and obeying the rules so you want to be careful not to start hitting the people who are actually earning a living by riding that bike in town because they maybe can't afford a car choose not to so yeah it's just something to be mindful of I agree don't legislate because you got Knuck well I I I appreciate the sentiment that the vice mayor has said about not wanting it on the beach and I understand you know people laying in the sand and I understand that but to me it's if we really want to truly promote people getting out of their cars and not slowing down traffic and allowing another Avenue for people to be able to do that you could put in there it's wet sand only I mean something again that you could visibly see that you're riding an electric bike on you know some people can try to ride with have big fat tires they can go on that well I got an idea can we put in there we got to put Karen on electric bike and send her down the beach on the soft sand and however far she goes opal guards shin guards help anyway I I I I just think allowing because a lot of our residents on the south end have shown that and on the North End have shown that they want to be able to Traverse and go back and forth but they don't feel safe riding the bikes even in the bike lanes and anybody that's been in traffic or been driving behind you see these trucks and their trailers are in the bike lanes and I think someone posted a video the guy was the mirors because they know that they can pass you but their mirror's hanging out and the mirror is what hits the cyclist so I I just you look like you would like to just ask a question Tom here uh Tom would it be helpful and I know I know you've got other things you guys need to do but would it be helpful to have language in there that says something to the effect that pass pedestrians at only a speed that allows you to maintain control and forward motion of the bike in other words would that help you if somebody Zips by an elderly couple at at 25 miles an hour with no no no heads up no anything just would that help you to have some language in there that you can hang your hat so I didn't do this before uh Thomas yazo compliance security manager for Fort Myers Beach for the record sorry um retired police officer yeah I that too um so I I think the language would be subjective in that way for for us to enforce it because then I'd have to do a visual speed estimate and none of my people are trained in visual speed estimates for that I I think it would be better to not designate a speed because again that's that's hard to enforce this language does but that language doesn't so having us be able to say Hey listen we believe that you're acting a little reckless but I think that would be a warning phase to write a summons to what my people determin to be Reckless would be kind of hard to card to work through testimony later that's that's the only thing I'm saying for that but you you'd at least be able to stop them we would their attention we would be able to that would give us probable cause to at least say hey excuse me can you please slow down um and I know probable cause is not so much issue for us because this is more of a civil side than it is Criminal but at least gives us that ability to say hey please pay attention you're being and and again most of the time when we when we stop people as a whole they're they're they're fine with saying oh I'm sorry I wasn't paying attention thank you there's been very few altercations where people start getting nasty that we have to bring one a deputy into the play on that I I'm okay with the language partly for what you're I think saying there I don't know that anybody's ever going to it's to me subjective hey you're going too fast how do you know how the B person riding the bike can control a bike or it's but what it could do is potentially allow us something in the litigation world if God forbid someone was to get hurt and through investigative whatever the police do find that they were riding recklessly whether they were drinking whether they were whatever it would also give some language to put to the bike rental companies and to the short rental whatever we decide to do just just give some guidance yeah because we can't use a speed limit so we can at least give some guidance that hey you know we do require you to be courteous when you pass pedestrians and here's what here's the language and again also that audibility language as well I think we need to add as well it's like the Mr Yuck Sor You Remember When of your kids remember the Mr Yuck you had to put it on there you know you're not supposed to drink it but they put something this is kind of like you know you're not supposed to be doing this but we're going to put it out there just for those of you that don't know that you're not supposed to do it can we also if I could ask this could we could we divide these into two separate votes one for the sidewalk and one for the beach I I just on the beach issue uh I really wrestle with it uh because uh my wife and I we have the Big Fat Tire Bike and we do ride on the beach on on low tide and and we've learned over the years to give wide birth to people when we're passing them that out of respect for them and that that that that's that that's a lot of experience living and and spending a lot of time on the beach um when it is low tide it is a tremendous Transportation potential Transportation Corridor but we also try to avoid any of the birds because every time you ride near the birds they fly and they exhaust the birds you know as they're trying to you know there's a lot of issues nature issues and the other piece of the beach is that I found is that with the little kids on the beach one of the one of your mindsets with children on the beach is just assume that they're going to run in front of you true because inevitably they will and and uh and and the other piece of the beach piece is that you know when people walk along the beach that's like the opport that's like the beach is one of our key Lop here and it's it's it's the great Solitude moment particularly as you're walking further south and to have somebody zipping by an electronic bike and again the mayor ride a lot of people won't ride their very nice electronic bike on the on the sand because it's hard on the bikes very expensive bikes but there's just something about that that that Majesty of of walking along the beach and have that disrupted uh I I think is I'd love to see us try the sidewalk thing and then do it incrementally but if if if people wanted do them both I'd like to have separate votes because I I do think that's a different issue on the beach because there's just something sacran about the beach that that that gives me pause I get that and if I was playing Devil's Advocate I would say you I've heard from several people in the south then that you know they they can't walk the beach anymore they can still ride the bike but they can't they can't walk from the south end to the north end but their pedal assist bike will allow them to get to the north end and they have just as much right to the public beach in my opinion as someone that's enjoying walking are playing with their kids so well what we're doing is we're in my opinion we're taking away a right from someone as opposed to allowing the people that are going to we're going to have Knuckleheads no matter which as as we're hashing though and that's a good point if we're hashing things out maybe we if for folks that get a doctor's uh note or somebody who's a a disabled vet then they can ride their bike on the beach I I I think that would require special consideration though I I to me that would be like the medical marijuana card I mean they're just handing them out you could probably get anybody to sign out and how do you force it I yeah you turn staff into babysitters yeah either you do it or you don't I think and and you there's no directional traffic on the beach to be able to really look at but again I don't I'm not out there every day I would I would lean on beach Patrol to see how many bikes are they really seeing out there I am out there and we ride to bage at least once a week from the very south end and I see it and there are not a lot of bikes on the beach uh right now uh and again you really have to be very selective when you're ride on the beach and low tide is the time if you if you if we go down to the to the North End and and get too carried away down there and we start coming back when the tide starts rising in that soft sand it's tough you got to move back to the sidewalk and then get over there it's a it's a challenge now your Your Wagon on the other hand does not have that issue so that shouldn't do you obey the traffic laws when you ride your bike absolutely 100% we will now we have a good percentage that don't and the other piece of the puzzle on the sidewalk is if you don't like this concept of slowing down when you see a pedestrian ahead you can just just move back into the street especially offseason I mean there's lots you then to move back on the sidewalk well maybe then for that part again something that's visually able to see wet sand if you put that in there I mean it's right closer to the surf well I mean and please remember how enfor it is enforcement on all of this is first person so it has to be either a ranger or a deputy who sees it taking third third person testimony is not something we're going to be able to say oh that person did this then we're going to have to we can't do that so for us to do it has to be the officer or the ranger has to Vis be there in that space when this happens we can go back and talk to people if somebody's injured of course if there's an accident then we can deal with that but we can't go from third person testimony we all know how reliable that can be sometimes too because it's very subjective especially when you're talking about what happened but this is going to be when our staff are there and where they're going to be so just be conscious of that when we talk about this it's this is going to be a kind of small case scenario where we're going to be finding people doing this I I hate to say that but that's that's true I think what we're trying to put in there is language that can be provided to the rental companies or potentially short-term rental companies that says this is what you're not supposed to do most will abide by it but enforcement we all agreed I don't know enforcement is going to be something that you know unless they're really going the wrong direction and they're doing something pretty egregious but when they do that we do enforce it we've had young people down here on motorcycles and are doing wheelies down the middle of the street and we we stop the space we get the lcso online and we have made stops for stuff like that where they then take care of it and we've written summons for that as well so but that's again that's a very small percentage as you say with the Knuckleheads to most of it um go back to the beach side of it I have no I really have no dog in this fight but I will say we we have to be very conscious of to the vice marriage Point children children do not pay attention to what's happening around them and the beach is a safe space for them so they can run around they know on a sidewalk or the roadway I got to watch out for the big metal beasts that come flying by me but out there and parents are the same way parents are not sitting there watching to see what bike is flying down at 25 miles per hour so I just give that as my observation to this be yeah seven it makes a good point it's so hard to tell I mean if I'm pedaling my bike down the beach not using any pedal assist it's technically still an electric bike but I'm my battery's dead I'm pedaling down the beach you know how do you I'm not going to die on The Sword either way on that one but I think we need at least to try the sidewalks and we'll talk about the beach separately I don't to disagree with that but at least try and see how it works there's just one thing about this whole debate that's kind of nagging in the back of my mind is are we Sol trying to solve a problem that really isn't there um other than people are right now illegally riding on the sidewalks but if the data for the last four or five years shows there've been no accidents but that's why the people are going on the sidewalk is because they're worried about an accident um and now are we creating a problem with accidents on the sidewalk I I don't know it just it's it's very ironic to me that uh I'm okay with this but I two years ago and this is me I'm a big Target I rode out in the street uh when I was campaigning um the only time I had an issue was trying to get down past what was the Old Rag coconut on North because there was really no bike lane so that's where this whole uh thing for me started uh being on the sidewalk but we're not if we don't have any data that shows there's any accidents for bicycles getting hurt it is is it just because I'm afraid of of that I I get it people told me not to ride in the street but I guess because I thought maybe I'm visible I don't know can we put a seasonality piece in there maybe allow during offseason I mean about the only person I see on the beach is I would be worried about subjective enforcement to that and we do that some of that already but just be conscious that that could be subject to enforcement just just asking a question it seems like I I get point on the beach when it's spring break and there's kids all over the place but there's some mornings where I don't see another person for 20 minutes so sure that might just be you yeah that's me out yeah I John I see your point I don't know that you no I'm willing to go forward I me my mind a bit I think what it will change is you know talking with Lee County Sheriff's Office how many calls and you guys hey there's a bike on the sidewalk it's an electric bike when you to do about it to your point unless they see it there's nothing they can do about it a deputy can see a car a bike going the wrong direction down a sidewalk from sitting in traffic from a mile away that's something that they can enforce but to your point they have to see it or you have to see it yes I I I don't know that this is going to change the world your point John no and maybe I I should take that a little further is I guess with the traffic situation that I understand why that's being driven uh with ebikes and those kind of things and I fully support that are you getting somewhere on at least the the sidewalks I think you've got some consensus on the sidewalk part of it I I think so on the sidewalk um and you want us to come back with some kind of language and an ordinance change to that effect I believe so yes okay and we'll also work on a brochure something that can be handed out posted and that type of thing that we can rental compan you pass on the lab make sure pedestrians on the right with the language I think that the vice mayor Ro read in I think that's good I mean can we task the Public Safety Committee to absolutely come up with language signs so the draft that we come up with send it to Public Safety First for their input and then bring it to you yeah well let send it to their next meeting and let them hash out language that way you can get it to the order well whenever their next meeting is their next meeting that's what I meant yeah a meeting how's that I don't know you there you go next it might be next month before yeah the next meeting we're a little backed up yeah okay okay now the beach yeah Scott how do you feel on the beach part of it one way or another man I'm I'm totally on the fence right now I mean I I was all for it and you know but now the safety issue just think we need some more discussion may maybe we send that part to the I mean it's all going to go anyway safy for to that committee for yeah let the public safety you know hash out the language or the recommendation that's what they're there for yeah I like that idea how do you feel about making a recommendation I mean we asked staff for recommendations on agreements deviation development agreements and cpds and things like that do you have a recommendation so my recommendation would be the sidewalks make sense letting people ride on the sidewalk as long as they act safely and having a directional provision put in there I I think the beach is a dangerous space personally for for ebikes because they will do 25 to 30 miles per hour and people do and that I'm not saying it happens all the time but it does happen and I don't want to I don't want to ever recommend something and then have a kid get hit thank you pretty safe recommendation to me so do we really need to I mean I'm not again I'm not going to live or die on the sword over the beach part of it I think the sidewalks is more important but I'm I'm perfectly fine with keeping the the beach the way it is and not okay is that is that the consensus of council just to leave it right now as it is in the interest of safety I'm okay with for the beach I'm I'm a hard no on the beach yeah I'm fine with the beach and like you said I mean there are a few people that are going to do it but for the most part these bikes are too expensive to get all sanded and corroded so good point actually you got a lot of $2,000 bills there you go those okay you got Direction on this on thank you okay now the certification of vote of appointed Advisory board members so this item is uh before you for discussion uh we do have a draft resolution in the in your agenda packet I'll read the title so everyone is aware of of the content of of the conversation so it's a uh resolution of the town of Fort Meer speech Florida amending section five of resolution 23-1 182 as amended by resolution 24- 178 to include certification of the vote by the Town Council before a vote to appoint members to the town's advisory boards committees agency and commissions and providing for an effective date so as you recall uh recently you have Revisited your um qualifications for individuals who serve on your committees um and associated with your code uh we made a a change to the code um to accommodate basically removing um residents requirements then we went into your rules and we amended um paragraph or section five um that includes that we didn't address this previously but we would like to address it now your method of voting um what we found was that there was some concerns raised by members of the public I think the Press um that it was not as transparent as um your process needs to be and so we went back and we looked at it and there was also some confusion about when there were TI votes um so we would like to propose to you somewhat of a a more transparent um process that hopefully um you know everything is is open to the public so they can view it at the time it's occurring as well as any possible uh inadvertent errors made on calculating um who who has uh received the correct number of votes or not so the revision that we um have considered is that basically when it's time for an appointment you each individual council member would make your selection you would have a ballot and you would write it down and then you would publicly announce what your vote is as far as which people you are are voting for and I'm going to defer to Jason Green because we're trying to move more sorry uh we're trying to move more into the electronic age and um a lot of cities already have software where as you're voting you can visually see it um unfortunately we don't have that at this time and I understand from um Andy that we will hopefully uh when we go to the new building have something that's a little bit more transparent so what we would propose is that when you're doing your vote selection that you announce what your vote is and either Jason or Amy someone would be um actually inputting the numbers into an Excel spreadsheet so we don't have the right there we go so as you announce it would populate so then there's a visual for members of the public um to see how the actual votes are calculated so we avoid any type of mathematical errors so that's one um possible change to your current process um and this would allow everyone to know what your actual vote was by the um the certification so when I say certification once that was populated into the Excel spreadsheet you would acknowledge that yes this is what I really voted for um and then at that point The Next Step would be to go ahead and appoint the individuals who have the highest numbers now if you have a tie there was some confusion because I think your code the rules and Amy correct me if I'm wrong basically provide that if there's a tie then you have a revote on the people that tied uh we would suggest that for purposes of Simplicity that you put those two individuals back into the pot and then you just revote on whoever is left and that's what this is saying um today this is a discussion to get your feedback um we would like to bring back a resolution to you on November the 18th so you could have your final vote um at that time we would also like to run through your last set of appointments so that there is no question as to what your vote was your certif ification of that that that truly was in fact your vote and then the the appointment can you run through the tie part again for me please so let's say that we have five uh or let's say we have I don't know help me out here two to three people how many two to three two to three people and if two individuals so you took your top top people with the votes say the first uh two people got five and five and then there was a three and three and then you had others the three and three would go with the others and all those would be part of the revote as I understand your rules now and Amy correct me if I'm wrong it would just be a revote on those two people that tied so it kind of expands your ability to to pick people within that process okay that's thank you that makes no sense because mathematically you could be around all day you never you never dwindle down the pile I think the way it is now you take the top the you top five or top two that got five the two remaining the other ones didn't get any votes you're just it well they may have gotten one or two votes but they didn't hit that three so maybe do it that way anyone that received a vote goes back into the second round that's what she's saying well there could be yeah there could be someone with zero votes oh I see so anybody who received a vote that would help narrow it down a bit but narrow it down it it's your discretion it's your voting process I think we know where you stand Scott Karen the way it is or do you want to go to a hybrid on the tie issue I would I would go to anyone who received a vote or not I agree with that King comfortable with it okay Direction I I have Direction and again you'll see this on um the 18th um and that that that point you'll take a final vote on the resolution so this is for future but we're going back now to what happened specifically about murf then is that yes yes murf will be uh voted on on the 18th and we're going to go through the others as well just so we have a very clear record as to who voted for Who and the appointment now we put a pause on everybody committee wise meeting in October because of all the activity with Helen and Milton and the other necessities of rescheduling meetings when are we restarting committees in some of them are already starting to meet again I understand audit committee is has got a meeting scheduled for this month next Thursday murf murf doesn't have anything it would have probably been normally the 13th audit committee has interfere I don't think the a committee changed at all did it no it did not change we Haven a meeting in three two three months so the only one really affected by the the count is murf and borab was murf correct but there were some concerns they had extra seats or there was a more applicants than positions so so we're going to go back and redo the ones we already did yes for purposes of transparency does that include the LPA as well no okay the LPA we we did a different um process we did announce and then you did certify and then you appointed so we did a little bit different there getting back to the question of committee's meeting and when we how do are we notifying folks are we making decisions on well we would hope that your vote doesn't change I mean it's really more for recordkeeping and transparency of what occurred um but if it does change then yes we would notify because B's next meeting is November 20th 1 should should be the 13th but that obviously that can't be done now because that's correct we're meeting on the 18th to to discuss and make a decision on that so does this move to theirm December meeting just December okay thank you does murf know that not yet we're waiting on what you decide today it um again this is really we when things happen right things happen we try to develop processes where things don't happen and so this is our attempt to really try to be as transparent as possible and um and avoid any type of little mathematical uh miscalculations by having a visual for um members of the public as well as as you all and I think that's a great idea because I think it was always a concern of we're filling out a private paper and holding turning it in and then somebody has to make a request of what happened so I think that's that's smart and that's I I appreciate the transparency okay okay that's it thank you sounds good fireworks who's going First's going uh yeah so we have a contract um signed for the fireworks company we also have for the barge um the issue is the funding um we ended up having to pay for all of the funding um we were basically told we were going to have a funding source through some donations that we did not get um so we ended up paying the whole pot our was this for Fourth of July or fourth of July yeah which comes out of our special events budget our special events budget for the total year is only like 30 or 35,000 so we need to figure out a way I guess gu either to adjust the budget or some other way to be able to fund this because we can't really rely on the donations that have been coming in so what's the total cost about 880,000 because only because because the barge only because of the barge is more than half of that we can't throw shoot them off from the pier anymore because obviously there is no pier and that's a huge cost is renting the barge for whatever it is three days four days five days while they they set it up um um putting it out far enough you know we got we got to work with the Coast Guard on that too with their permits um our own permits so having the barge really puts us at a disadvantage financially but it's the only way to do them um right now we don't have enough land on the island to do it with the fire range with the range that they need to clear um we don't have any space we inquired about that too can we use boks to shoot them off can we they said no the firing uh range isn't enough at boks or anywhere else uh on the island actually they they basically said nowhere on the island so um Jeff did did you say that we're already contractually obligated with this we have we have contracts in place do that does that mean we pay whether we I mean we're going to be build whether we pay we have not signed the contracts we have them in hand got but I need a direction as to where to go I guess I asked that because we had an interesting question during our candidate debate about uh drones and other other options uh and I just was curious if you explored that at all yeah we have it's it's around it's about that 70,000 is it really Mark expensive yeah for the for the Drone shows they are they are cool they are we've looked into it they have a lot of great shows um can I ask a lot of people like the booms too I mean some like it some don't actually I don't want to digress on this but I'm just curious on the Drone the the Drone concept is I'm a again traditionalist love the fireworks but the Drone concept's interesting not only from the environmental side but it's also interesting and and I don't know if you know the answer to this but can the Drone a show literally kind of move down the Seven Mile Barrier Island and kind of go back and forth and kind of all of a sudden give everybody some range on that I mean not for the whole show but I think there's a limited range that they can go away from their currently yeah but how cool would it be if the show just for like a few minutes went down the island a little bit so everybody kind of got a taste and and that may that may be something more for July or next year we're within 60 days of New Year's Day and so we don't time to get a drone so set up what's what's your recommendation for funding that that we just get with Joe and and find the funds is it to do that is it something that could come from a I know I keep talking about the the over you know the increased parking meter money or the increased short-term rental money that was going to go to Workforce housing that is obviously not going to happen so yes can those funds be appropriated so it it's something that is covered by the people that Park and or come in stage and and the question the question is you know for you all on the blue sheet it's what's the alternative is not having them so well let's start there Do's everybody in agreement that they want to have the New Year's Eve fireworks absolutely yes yes I'm not here but it's essential i i i partake the ones in Maui but so that I think I think there's a there people want to have them now how do we pay for them so I'll get with Jo we we should have funds available should we need that there's there's some some other options we can I'll give him we make recommendations does it make sense to attach this special events budget to those buckets going into the future yeah and the only reason it's 30 35 or what 30 it's 30 to 40,000 I have to look I think it's around 35 um it's because that when we shot them off in the pier they they were only about 12 to 15 minutes I think these these these special events are crucial to the recovery of the I do we've had good luck with um and I'm not asking for donations at this point but we've had good look luck with donations as well in in the past um but we'll find a way to to pay for ours unless somebody really wants to and we're talking about today we're talking about Fourth of July or we talking about New Year and we we have enough time with everything it's the same company we used last year which I thought were great fireworks um we're going to shorten it up a little bit so it's more booms all the time maybe we shorten it up by like two or three minutes you'll get you'll get a better show that way uh and then the barge company's the same uh as we used for the last ones uh they were great to work with so the permitting isn't going to be as as hard of with the Coast Guard because they already have everything going I I just want to say the Fourth of July was spectacular did a great job with that think it's a good idea to shorten a little bit so it was there was more consistent consistent action some people say longer is better some people like the the compacted version so we're going to go a little bit shorter with the same amount of Firepower but we are willing to be open to take donations correct someone wants to Sure contact you or yeah then contact me for sure thank you put your email address out there or should they just go to the Yellow Pages Yellow Pages please they should be delivered at your uh front door no time soon uh J HGI so j h a u g fmbg o.com j h u g e fmbg o.com got it okay I think you have Direction Joe's like he got nothing else to do so yeah yeah really we all don't this is all we're focusing he's got weekends all right does he next is the downtown downtown lights I'm assuming that's you again Jeff or yeah we kind it had been brought up as we move into the holiday season about groups or um nonprofits I believe decorating our our you want me to run with I think I'm the one brought I wasn't going that he's throwing everybody else under of the bus so yeah no it was it right after Ian we went up to den Eden which is a small town like a Hallmark movie town and one thing we noticed was all the light poles in the area were decorated with snowmen or and had their own little light shows and it was very unique each poll and it was it was people taking pictures with it and I thought it was a really cool idea that would be something we could do here you know nonprofits whether lovers keys Women's Club even a private resid if they want to sponsor a poll and decorate it and do what they want that sounded good you know I think of one anyway knew going the question is are we going to be able to get power to these polls before then if there's no power it's kind of a possibly we we you know because it's interesting someone always comments to me about that bike that sits out in front of the ice cream shop on Fifth great off right and no everybody's like it's kind of cool I mean it's always got different decorations on it they just updated it to fall decorations it is kind of cool actually so to be able to do all the poles all the way down I think it adds much needed light assuming we can get yes so we're working on on how the how the funding goes we do have three quotes um to replace the lights and the electrical and the electrical everything at Bayside as well everything that's I'll just tell you the current status of Bayside Maybe quick real quick if you get sure go so the it's gotten flooded every time um the panels we've had to replace twice um the the we there was a electrical fire down there so we had to shut off the power to everything um we thought we fixed it we turned the power back on um the last storm we Andy and I were down there and Nicole I believe uh were down there and we thought the one of the lights was on fire again so we shut it off um so it needs to be completely redone done I we it's for Public Safety we don't just need to try to Band-Aid when we find things it needs to be redone redone um the wiring is so we're not going to put ground lights in we're have a new system for that that still has up Lighting on the trees um our plan is to redo all the wiring pull up all the pavers redo the conduit that we need because there's there's messed up conduit there and going down north of stair or down old St Carlos um because we know that Public Safety we do need lights down there for sure these solar lights work okay but they're not the Great we just need to get it done so we do have a quote to redo all of that and they are ready to work um so that's the that's where we're at so hopefully I don't know how long the the process will take once we figure out the funding and how to do it but they are ready to go um the company that that gave us the lowest bit is ready to go and ready to work so is there a time frame on how long it would take start to finish I don't know this was just development in the past week so it falls under emergency and we've talked to title base and we've talked to to FEMA it's fre IM versible and so we're we're going to going to get going and bring it to you for approval because it's an we talked to Joe it qualifies as emergency purchase because of Public Safety and so we're GNA we're going to move as quick as we can to get that going Christmas is coming correct and yes does it does this proposal include adding an elevated outlet that can be used for lighting or no on each pole we we will buy the poles that can be conducive to that yes well actually we're putting where the light where the out Outlets are we're going to move the outlets there um and move them up yeah up the pole a little bit so they're you know eight six 78 feet up those are bide yeah Bas side B yeah for sure yeah street lights the same way they just the ones yeah cuz the ones that Time Square had just a little Outlet next to it um but I think they can be built in uh to do that so they're going running the PO we can buy can have electrical outlets up high yeah and just to keep in mind this is not the funding that we received for the cdbg that program will kick off probably within about another six to eight months by the time all the paperwork gets done there's a considerable amount of paperwork and and road work that has to be done uh once that done then you will have your final design on how all that lighting additional lighting will look going down from Bayside veterans all the way to Time Square because we did get uh in excess of $300,000 for that that portion but they're two different separate things so this is an immediate fix and to go with the other one will be a long-term solution to alleviate a lot of these problems whether it's uh the two junction boxes that we have uh permanent repair to that and waterproofing those uh so we don't run into this problem time and time again uh other solutions that we are still with in the engineering phase on well I let's make sure we're not duplicating things here FPL is replacing in their quote FPL was to do the lighting repair the light and the posts on S Carlos Boulevard were they was that for sure yes okay cuz I've heard it both ways I haven't actually seen it oh look at the contract yep there there'll be just standard poles unless we want decorative poles but that is part now they aren't going to be doing the electric to the poles that's on us but part of their scope of work is to do a ster or that as well so I just want to make sure we're not putting up something they're going to come through and or have them amend their contract if we're going to do it that's a way we could do it too I just I want this has been long enough you know with these lights and not having lights in public safety people walking around tripping hazards with stuff hopefully they can get the electric fixed quickly yeah they can also FPL can also Supply the poles I mean we just have to get with them about because they do that as well they've got the resource for downtown lighting decorative type poles and things like that well and if we can get the electric fixed then maybe we can push FPL to jump down there and get that done yeah cuz there's more to it though the lights that are in there aren't even have J bolts they have they're just rebar into the concrete so we got to cut all that out each one um put our put the pad down put J bolts down so when that when they did it originally whenever that was um yeah they it's just rebar coming right up there's no bolts so we got to cut all that out it's kind of a miracle that as many stayed as they did considering all the debris that was pushed back at the end of the that we saw pictures though my goes without saying but the faster you get that done the better it would be that's our goal that's the this came into Focus late yesterday afternoon so nice we're moving moving moving got it all right agenda management John anything no Vice May no I don't have anything right now you got what our our meeting our um joint meeting I know that's not necessarily agenda management but our joint meeting with LPA am made next Tuesday or I mean Wednesday or Thursday you said we got um we have LPA meets on Tuesday right now then it's going to be a fairly long meeting I believe um with murf being moved to December we have Wednesday open and we have Thursday afternoon open because the audit committee will be in here in the morning on Thursday I've got a conflict Thursday afternoon so but Wednesday morning would work fine John you said you had a contct Wednesday afternoon right yeah I have to be in K Coral at 1:30 on the 13th can we do it bright and early Wednesday morning how long would it yeah how long do you guys think it'll take if we start the only agenda the only Agenda One thing so we just started at 8:30 and 8:30 8 o' 7 o' is that we're 8:30 early we're here if we got well we don't know if the lp MERS will be able to make that either tentatively we'll say November 13th at 8:30 have we heard do we y That's for us we have we don't know what the LPA Cal look like we'll send I'll send them an email y so for right now put it down for November 13th at 8:30 right okay that work for you Scott yeah yes okay all right Jim you said you're good n mentioned wanted to hopefully get it before the the next 18 18th because you would be using your procedures got it yep okay anything for you Scott well I guess Karen are you I'm good okay I'm I'm good for right now okay with that I would just say that it's been a thoroughly productive Nancy day and I hope you all continue to celebrate I know I will be raising a glass later to you Nancy so with that I'll move to approve to thank you to adjourn thank you all right I'll second all those in favor signify by saying I